Episode 1591 - Josh Brolin

Episode 1591 • Released November 14, 2024 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:Alright, let's do this.

00:00:11Marc:How are you?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fuck nicks?

00:00:14Marc:What's happening?

00:00:14Marc:I'm Mark Maron.

00:00:15Marc:This is my podcast.

00:00:18Marc:Welcome to it.

00:00:18Marc:One of the original podcasts.

00:00:21Marc:A classic.

00:00:23Marc:WTF is a classic podcast.

00:00:26Marc:I hope you're all doing okay.

00:00:29Marc:I'm going to live my life.

00:00:31Marc:I'm going to check in.

00:00:32Marc:I'm going to get overly caught up in the day-to-day drama of my small life.

00:00:40Marc:which has probably a little more time than some of you.

00:00:43Marc:Because, you know, I'm self-employed.

00:00:46Marc:I do this.

00:00:46Marc:I do the stand-up.

00:00:47Marc:I do the acting.

00:00:48Marc:I do, you know.

00:00:50Marc:But, I mean, it's a lot of work.

00:00:51Marc:But, you know, I can make time to fill my life with errands of purpose, errands of meaning, the things that make up my life, the things that bring me joy and engagement outside of talking to people.

00:01:09Marc:either in here or in comedy clubs, theaters, just the day-to-day and getting things done that just come up.

00:01:21Marc:That is the bulk of my life.

00:01:24Marc:Look around your life.

00:01:26Marc:Pull out of the phone and just look at how small and simple a lot of times your life is.

00:01:33Marc:Think about the number of blocks or miles that you really...

00:01:37Marc:engage or travel with in your life think about the people along the way don't think about whatever the phone is doing to your brain as soon as you turn it on all of a sudden you're connected to this universe of fucking psychic garbage slow it down take a walk say hi to the guy at the place you know i'm saying today on the show

00:02:00Marc:Josh Brolin is back.

00:02:01Marc:He's out making the rounds with his book, which is very good.

00:02:06Marc:And the last time he was here was in 2018, episode 915.

00:02:13Marc:He was actually the first guest in the new garage, which was not set up, really.

00:02:19Marc:And I like the guy.

00:02:22Marc:He's just one of those guys.

00:02:23Marc:I went out to meet him, and I looked at him.

00:02:25Marc:I'm like, all right, okay, Brolin.

00:02:29Marc:What's up?

00:02:30Marc:What do you got?

00:02:30Marc:I thought we hit it up pretty good.

00:02:33Marc:I just liked the guy.

00:02:34Marc:But the new memoir, it's called From Under the Truck.

00:02:38Marc:He wrote the fuck out of it.

00:02:40Marc:He wrote a thing, and it's all him, and you can feel it, and he's got a poetic sensibility.

00:02:46Marc:He has a desire to express himself in a truthful way and think about things in relation to his life experience, and I enjoyed it, and it's written in short chapters, so you can do a piece at a time, but I actually really liked it, and I like talking to him again.

00:03:03Marc:We had some laughs, talked about the Zins, you know.

00:03:07Marc:I'll be back touring starting in January, Sacramento, California.

00:03:11Marc:I'll be at the Crest Theater on Friday, January 10th.

00:03:13Marc:Napa, California at the Uptown Theater on Saturday, January 11th.

00:03:17Marc:I'm in Fort Collins.

00:03:18Marc:Colorado at Lincoln Center Performance Hall on Friday, January 17th.

00:03:22Marc:Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theater on Saturday, January 18th.

00:03:26Marc:Santa Barbara, California at the Lobero Theater on Thursday, January 30th.

00:03:30Marc:San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont Center on Friday, January 31st.

00:03:35Marc:And Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on Saturday, February 1st.

00:03:40Marc:Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets.

00:03:44Marc:Also, send in your questions for an upcoming Ask Mark Anything bonus episode.

00:03:50Marc:Go to the link in the episode description and submit a question there.

00:03:53Marc:Then subscribe to the full Marin so you can hear my answers.

00:03:59Marc:As I said before, I'm focusing on important small things.

00:04:04Marc:The poetry of life.

00:04:06Marc:Someone sent me a box of walnuts.

00:04:08Marc:I got too many walnuts.

00:04:10Marc:It was a gift.

00:04:11Marc:It's half a joke gift because I've been talking about walnut oil and walnuts and omega-3s or whatever.

00:04:17Marc:So I got like, you know, too many walnuts.

00:04:19Marc:And I thought I'd put five walnuts out in front of my house for the squirrels.

00:04:23Marc:And I wondered when I did it, like, can they handle a walnut, the squirrels?

00:04:28Marc:Don't they have the teeth that, you know, does the nut thing?

00:04:30Marc:Isn't that what they're kind of about?

00:04:32Marc:And it's been a few hours and no takers.

00:04:35Marc:So I don't know.

00:04:37Marc:But, you know, it's interesting to think about.

00:04:39Marc:And now I have something to look at.

00:04:40Marc:It's sort of like looking at the rat traps down in my basement.

00:04:43Marc:You know, opposite ends of the spectrum, but both involve rodents.

00:04:47Marc:But I think one is...

00:04:49Marc:Definitely much nicer than the other one.

00:04:52Marc:Now, I could tell you about the vacuum insanity.

00:04:59Marc:I don't want you to judge me, but this is just sort of where it's errands with purpose.

00:05:06Marc:That's what my life is built on.

00:05:09Marc:That's what I enjoy doing.

00:05:11Marc:Some of them are deeper than others.

00:05:14Marc:But I got into sort of a vacuum shit show.

00:05:18Marc:You want to hear about it?

00:05:19Marc:I'll tell you about it.

00:05:21Marc:Okay, so I have this Dyson.

00:05:22Marc:I like Dysons.

00:05:23Marc:I have an animal too.

00:05:24Marc:Dysons, despite the story I'm going to tell you, are kind of the best vacuum.

00:05:28Marc:There's not a paid promotion.

00:05:30Marc:It's just once you have a Dyson, it's hard to have anything else because it's like a jet engine vacuum.

00:05:39Marc:And they look cool.

00:05:40Marc:I've been a Dyson guy for a while.

00:05:43Marc:Now, a while back, about a year or two, about a year and a half ago, I had a Dyson Animal 1 maybe, and I'd had it for years, and it broke.

00:05:51Marc:Fine.

00:05:51Marc:So then I had the other one.

00:05:52Marc:I had this other Animal 2 vacuum, a Dyson, that I've only had for maybe less than two years, and it broke the same way that other fucking one broke.

00:06:00Marc:So obviously, this is a Dyson problem.

00:06:03Marc:And the woman, I have a person that cleans my house a couple times a month because it's a house.

00:06:10Marc:And as much as I'd like to think I could clean it all, it won't be as good as a person cleaning it.

00:06:15Marc:So she cleans my house and she said she broke the vacuum where it broke.

00:06:19Marc:I'm not going to blame her.

00:06:20Marc:It broke the same way the other one did.

00:06:22Marc:And I'm like, all right, well, fuck it.

00:06:23Marc:Now I got to get a new vacuum, but this one feels pretty new.

00:06:26Marc:So maybe I should go get this one fixed, but that could take weeks.

00:06:29Marc:So anyway, she said, yeah, get a new vacuum.

00:06:31Marc:So I bought one online.

00:06:32Marc:I don't know why.

00:06:34Marc:I went to Amazon, the Sparks vacuum.

00:06:36Marc:I think it's Sparks is the brand.

00:06:37Marc:I'm not sure.

00:06:38Marc:I had a lot of high reviews.

00:06:39Marc:It was like $100 and it looked like a vacuum.

00:06:43Marc:So I bought it.

00:06:44Marc:And I knew in the back of my mind, dude, it's a $100 vacuum.

00:06:48Marc:How is that going to fucking compare?

00:06:50Marc:I mean, there's no way it can be good, but I bought it and it came.

00:06:54Marc:And then, you know, a couple of days later, she goes, I'd like to get one of those those broom style vacuums, you know, the kind with the handle that's got the suction on the handle, like a Dyson, like a like a V11, I thought, you know, you charge it up and, you know, that's supposed to be pretty good.

00:07:07Marc:So I had the Sparks vacuum, and I'm like, well, fuck you, I want this vacuum.

00:07:10Marc:So I got the other Dyson, the V11.

00:07:13Marc:I thought, well, that's, you know, it's smaller.

00:07:14Marc:It seems more compact.

00:07:16Marc:I'll just get that, and I'll get the other one fixed whenever I get it fixed.

00:07:20Marc:And so I got the two vacuums.

00:07:22Marc:So she comes, and she's like, she doesn't like the broom vacuum, the Dyson V11, because it doesn't hold a charge for shit.

00:07:30Marc:And you got to hold the trigger.

00:07:32Marc:You got to hold the trigger to vacuum.

00:07:33Marc:It doesn't just turn on and go.

00:07:35Marc:And so she's like, I can't, I don't want to use this.

00:07:37Marc:And I'm like, all right.

00:07:39Marc:And then we tried the Sparks vacuum and that was garbage.

00:07:41Marc:Didn't work.

00:07:43Marc:Didn't suck.

00:07:44Marc:Didn't suck.

00:07:45Marc:It sucks because it doesn't suck.

00:07:48Marc:So now I got three vacuums.

00:07:50Marc:One is broken.

00:07:51Marc:And I'm like, fuck.

00:07:53Marc:And then I was going to send back the V11 and return it.

00:07:56Marc:But to disassemble a vacuum and then repack it in the box it came in, it's not worth the time.

00:08:04Marc:Just take the hit.

00:08:06Marc:And so I'm like, well, I'll just put that vacuum in the fucking garage.

00:08:09Marc:There's no way.

00:08:10Marc:It's going to take me hours.

00:08:12Marc:And I went and looked up a video.

00:08:14Marc:to figure out how to repack the fucking Dyson.

00:08:19Marc:And there's a guy on there, but even he's not confident.

00:08:22Marc:And I'm like, God damn it, fuck this.

00:08:24Marc:I'll just keep the fucking vacuum.

00:08:26Marc:I'll give the Sparks one to somebody.

00:08:29Marc:But now I've got these three vacuums, one broken Dyson.

00:08:32Marc:And I'm mad.

00:08:34Marc:I'm mad at Dyson.

00:08:36Marc:Because now I've got to go over to the repair center.

00:08:38Marc:But it's an errand with purpose.

00:08:40Marc:I can go over there and go like, this isn't even two years old.

00:08:42Marc:I mean, what the fuck?

00:08:43Marc:I don't even know if I have a warranty.

00:08:46Marc:Is there somewhere you can check?

00:08:48Marc:I mean, I wouldn't yell.

00:08:48Marc:But there was purpose to it.

00:08:52Marc:I got three vacuums, one broken, two of which not usable.

00:08:58Marc:Fucking three vacuums.

00:08:59Marc:And I'm driving back from somewhere yesterday and I'm just, I can't get it out of my mind.

00:09:04Marc:I'm like, fuck, dude, you just bought that Animal 2, you know, a couple of years ago and it's fucked.

00:09:10Marc:But, you know, you're not, you're going to want to buy a Dyson, you know, it's just like, so I get on my phone, I'm looking at Target and I was like fighting myself, but I went to Target and I bought an Animal 3.

00:09:21Marc:So now I have four fucking vacuums.

00:09:24Marc:And there's something about buying things out of spite, but I don't know who I'm spiting.

00:09:27Marc:I'm spiting me.

00:09:28Marc:I made a mistake.

00:09:29Marc:I bought two vacuums that were not usable for my situation.

00:09:32Marc:So I'm like, well, fuck me.

00:09:33Marc:I'm just going to keep buying fucking vacuums.

00:09:36Marc:And granted, I know that this is a luxury problem and I have the means to continue to buy vacuums.

00:09:43Marc:Probably quite a few more, actually.

00:09:45Marc:Not bragging, but I could probably afford another two vacuums.

00:09:50Marc:So now I got four vacuums, one broken Dyson and one Dyson in a box that I'll take out of the box.

00:09:54Marc:So the next time she comes, she can clean with it because I want to have what she wants.

00:10:00Marc:But I got four vacuums now.

00:10:02Marc:So yesterday, I'm like, I'm going to go to the Dyson place.

00:10:06Marc:I've been there before.

00:10:07Marc:I drive out to the valley of the Dyson place.

00:10:10Marc:Says it's open.

00:10:11Marc:on the fucking Google Maps.

00:10:14Marc:And I get there, and the store's not there anymore.

00:10:16Marc:The repair shop is gone.

00:10:18Marc:It's gone.

00:10:19Marc:So I was all ready to be like, you know, this shouldn't happen to a vacuum after two years.

00:10:24Marc:You know, I had a purpose, an errand with purpose, just dashed, dashed.

00:10:32Marc:No Dyson place there.

00:10:33Marc:So I called Dyson.

00:10:34Marc:Then there's another place.

00:10:35Marc:It's out past Downey.

00:10:37Marc:It's like an hour plus away.

00:10:39Marc:And I'm like, oh, fuck.

00:10:41Marc:So now I got the broken, crippled vacuum in my car.

00:10:44Marc:I don't know if I'm, I just don't know if I'm going to get out there.

00:10:49Marc:But it is one of those things where like, hey, when shit is fucked up and chaos reigns and you've got a spare hour, maybe you got a little trip out there, trip out past Downey to go to the Dyson store to get a little justice.

00:11:06Marc:But right now I have four vacuums, one in a box, one dead in my car, one on my porch that was garbage to begin with, and one out here, which I kind of like.

00:11:18Marc:So what is the moral of this story?

00:11:20Marc:I don't know.

00:11:21Marc:Someone might get a gift.

00:11:23Marc:Somebody might get a vacuum.

00:11:25Marc:Somebody I love might get a vacuum.

00:11:28Marc:So look, Josh Brolin wrote a very good book.

00:11:36Marc:It's a memoir.

00:11:37Marc:It's about him.

00:11:38Marc:I like things about individuals.

00:11:40Marc:I've often been criticized as someone who talks too much about himself, but that's all I know that is true.

00:11:48Marc:You know what I'm saying?

00:11:50Marc:It's coming right from me.

00:11:52Marc:But I like the book.

00:11:53Marc:I like him.

00:11:54Marc:The memoir, the book from Under the Truck, it's called, comes out next Tuesday, November 19th.

00:12:01Marc:You can pre-order it now.

00:12:03Marc:And this is A Return Visit with Josh Brolin.

00:12:15Marc:Now I want to double up on the zen.

00:12:16Marc:You're walking.

00:12:17Marc:That's so funny.

00:12:18Marc:I'm going to my door to let you in.

00:12:20Guest:No, you literally have it in your hand.

00:12:22Guest:I have it in my hand.

00:12:24Guest:So, no, this is the story that I was going to tell you.

00:12:26Guest:I was in the Middle East and I was working.

00:12:29Guest:Yeah.

00:12:29Guest:And I started to run out.

00:12:32Guest:And somebody had given me 110.

00:12:33Guest:The panic.

00:12:34Guest:It's a true panic.

00:12:35Guest:It's addiction.

00:12:36Guest:I mean, it's for real.

00:12:38Marc:It's pure fucking addiction.

00:12:40Marc:But it's all the trappings of addiction without it being damaging to your life in the way that.

00:12:46Guest:Well, especially now where people say like Laird Hamilton.

00:12:49Guest:And it's true.

00:12:50Guest:They said like if you do one to three milligrams a day, it's actually good for you.

00:12:54Guest:What about 20?

00:12:55Guest:It's good for you.

00:12:55Guest:What about, how about 90?

00:12:57Guest:Ha ha.

00:12:58Guest:How about fucking 90, dude?

00:13:00Guest:So I'm in the Middle East and I start running out and there's a Hungarian guy who comes up to me and we're in Budapest or we're in Jordan.

00:13:07Guest:Yeah.

00:13:08Guest:No, we're in Jordan.

00:13:09Guest:And he comes up to me and he says, I have some.

00:13:11Guest:And it has a skull and crossbones on the top.

00:13:14Guest:You don't know what it is.

00:13:14Guest:And it's 40 milligram packets.

00:13:17Guest:Oh.

00:13:17Guest:And I said, I can't do that.

00:13:19Guest:I can't do that.

00:13:21Guest:And then one day I start running out and I haven't quite run out.

00:13:24Guest:I probably have four or five more tins left and I have his thing in my pocket and I had gone to the gym and I'm running back from the gym and I go, fuck man, I can't, I have to keep mine.

00:13:35Guest:So I'm going to use, I'm going to use the fentanyl and save the heroin.

00:13:39Guest:Right.

00:13:40Guest:Right.

00:13:41Guest:And then I stick the thing in my mouth for no more.

00:13:44Guest:And I swear to God on my kids for no more than 20 seconds.

00:13:47Guest:Yeah.

00:13:48Guest:And I had to cancel dinner that night.

00:13:50Guest:I literally was shitting my brains out.

00:13:52Guest:It was fucking crazy.

00:13:54Guest:So now I'm in Abu Dhabi.

00:13:56Guest:Now we've run out.

00:13:57Guest:Yeah.

00:13:58Guest:I got it black market.

00:13:59Guest:There was a guy that we found a really like pumped up like Schwarzenegger type, but he was middle Eastern.

00:14:06Guest:Yeah.

00:14:06Guest:And he showed up and, and it cost me 300 bucks to get,

00:14:09Marc:how many i don't know like six tens or something well yeah i was i had the same thing just a panic i was working in canada for three months and they don't sell zin zins and then the smoke shops have these different things they're chinese bootleg things but that but both of us having had a history with drugs i mean this it's so fucking real and in the same thing goes through your head it's like this is crazy it's just fucking but you know you get up and you're like fuck i gotta get i got me back up

00:14:39Marc:I need about six.

00:14:41Marc:I bought two rolls.

00:14:42Marc:Two rolls, bro.

00:14:44Guest:No, just for the week to make sure I had it.

00:14:46Guest:I know.

00:14:47Guest:I have them all over the house.

00:14:48Guest:By the way, my wife, and I used to do this.

00:14:51Guest:Oh, oh, you know, remember the mini, the mini, oh, fuck, lozenges?

00:14:56Guest:Oh, yeah, mini lozenges, yeah.

00:14:57Guest:They were kind of curved.

00:14:58Guest:It looked like a penis with a...

00:15:00Guest:With Peyronie's disease, it had a curve.

00:15:03Guest:It wasn't the straight one.

00:15:04Guest:It wasn't Nicorette?

00:15:05Guest:No.

00:15:06Guest:Oh, yeah, the curved bottle, you mean.

00:15:07Guest:It was the curved bottle.

00:15:08Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:15:08Guest:It was the curved vial.

00:15:09Marc:Those go away in two seconds.

00:15:10Guest:And they go away in two seconds, but they taste like gasoline, and there's a punch to them.

00:15:14Guest:Yeah.

00:15:14Guest:But I used to keep them up between my gum and my tooth line.

00:15:18Guest:Yeah.

00:15:18Guest:I got seven cavities.

00:15:20Guest:From that?

00:15:21Guest:That's why I switched to this.

00:15:22Guest:Well, because why?

00:15:23Guest:Is there sugar in those?

00:15:23Guest:There's a ton of sugar, and there's no sugar in them.

00:15:25Marc:Well, I was doing lozenges, and I've done—but I won't go to—I won't do dip—

00:15:30Guest:Yeah, I did dip when I was young and then I did dip when I was doing that series.

00:15:34Marc:Dude, when someone turned me on to snooze, like the Swedish shit, I was ordering it from fucking Sweden.

00:15:40Marc:From Sweden.

00:15:41Marc:And they made stuff in Sweden where I would put it in and I'd get up, I'd put it in and I got to sit down and sweat.

00:15:47Marc:And like sometimes...

00:15:49Guest:Isn't there something, though, in your throwback?

00:15:53Guest:You know, you're a sober guy.

00:15:54Guest:I'm a sober guy.

00:15:55Guest:But you're actually throwing back.

00:15:56Guest:And there's something exciting about the, hey, man, it's Mark.

00:16:01Guest:Yeah.

00:16:01Guest:Can you get me some shit?

00:16:03Guest:And you're like, all right, not a lot, dude.

00:16:05Guest:You're fucking old and sober now.

00:16:07Marc:Relax.

00:16:07Marc:But it's so crazy, the chasing.

00:16:10Marc:And then you've got to deal with these.

00:16:11Marc:You've got to be like, where am I going to spit this out?

00:16:13Marc:I know.

00:16:13Marc:I'm about to do a scene.

00:16:15Marc:I'm going to stick it on my hand because there's still stuff in it.

00:16:17Guest:Well, have kids.

00:16:19Guest:I mean, have young kids.

00:16:20Guest:You can't have them anywhere.

00:16:20Guest:And then you take it out.

00:16:21Guest:And my wife would hear this in the middle of the night.

00:16:25Guest:I don't even know I'm doing it.

00:16:26Guest:I'm asleep.

00:16:27Guest:I have a pouch in my lip, and I'm not fucking lying.

00:16:30Guest:No.

00:16:30Guest:24 hours a day 24 hours a day then I started taking them out and putting them on the bedside table and then my kid would pick it up at 2 years old which is really maybe there's not any nicotine maybe there's not any danger but if she puts it in her mouth she's going to get sick and instead of stopping

00:16:47Guest:I try and teach them.

00:16:49Guest:Don't do that.

00:16:50Guest:Stay away from daddy's drugs.

00:16:52Marc:Stay away from daddy's shit.

00:16:54Marc:Daddy needs that.

00:16:55Marc:I just, I can't, I'm so glad that we're talking about this because, but do you, do you get obsessed with, are you obsessed in any way with the, that there might be, might be bad for you?

00:17:06Marc:No.

00:17:07Marc:Good for you.

00:17:07Marc:Me neither.

00:17:08Guest:Kinda.

00:17:10Guest:Right.

00:17:10Guest:I think you have that predilation where you kind of like look for the negative where I, I looked at, I do.

00:17:16Guest:I just sense that.

00:17:17Guest:It's,

00:17:17Guest:Across the table.

00:17:18Guest:You have a hammer on your table, a knife.

00:17:20Guest:It's my hobby, Josh.

00:17:22Guest:It's your hobby.

00:17:23Guest:I get up and I'm like, I feel all right.

00:17:24Guest:Fuck.

00:17:25Guest:I feel good today, but there's probably for no good fucking reason.

00:17:29Guest:I can spend the day worrying.

00:17:30Guest:The world is going to shit.

00:17:31Guest:Well, that's clear.

00:17:32Guest:I know.

00:17:35Guest:No, man.

00:17:36Guest:I don't.

00:17:38Guest:I don't.

00:17:39Guest:I know it's bad, but if you chew, it's not one of those things that you're going to get your jaw cut out.

00:17:45Guest:But you go back to this thing where you go, you know, it's a tomato based gauze that's surrounding the nicotine.

00:17:51Guest:It's all so full of shit.

00:17:53Marc:All I know is that when I was doing the Swedish stuff, they had names like Glorch, just with umlauts on it.

00:17:58Marc:This has got to be fucking great.

00:18:00Marc:And they were sticky and wet, but that was tobacco.

00:18:02Guest:You know what they don't have, though?

00:18:04Guest:If you look at cigarettes, especially in Europe, or cigars, it's like you will lose your child in pregnancy.

00:18:11Guest:You will lose all your teeth.

00:18:13Guest:You will die if you do this.

00:18:15Guest:I don't see that anywhere here.

00:18:17Marc:Because these aren't tobacco, I don't think they're beholden to that.

00:18:20Guest:They also may not have the additives and all the shit, the carcinogens.

00:18:23Marc:It just says this contains nicotine.

00:18:24Marc:Nicotine is addictive.

00:18:25Marc:I'm like, all right.

00:18:26Marc:Okay.

00:18:27Marc:And?

00:18:29Marc:Exactly.

00:18:30Marc:Next.

00:18:31Marc:God.

00:18:32Marc:But you're doing the sixes.

00:18:33Marc:I'm trying to step up, but they still slow.

00:18:35Marc:You're actually trying to do more, not less?

00:18:39Marc:Good on you, man.

00:18:40Marc:Embrace it.

00:18:41Marc:Well, I mean, I know a lot of dudes are doing sixes and I'm like, dude, I do a six, I got to wait it out for a half hour and then ride it.

00:18:46Marc:I know.

00:18:47Marc:You're not going to sweat on threes.

00:18:48Guest:No.

00:18:49Guest:You're only going to sweat on sixes.

00:18:50Guest:So you sweat on the six?

00:18:51Guest:You know what's what?

00:18:51Guest:No, I don't.

00:18:52Guest:Not anymore?

00:18:53Guest:But if I do a double six.

00:18:54Guest:Oh, come on.

00:18:55Guest:They're 12.

00:18:56Guest:What's the longest you've ever gone?

00:18:57Guest:And then we'll get past this.

00:18:58Guest:What's the longest you've ever gone without a zen in your mouth?

00:19:01Guest:Right now?

00:19:01Guest:Yeah.

00:19:02Guest:These days?

00:19:03Yep.

00:19:03Guest:Not long.

00:19:05Guest:Not long.

00:19:06Guest:An hour?

00:19:06Guest:I don't sleep with him, though.

00:19:08Guest:Do you exercise?

00:19:09Guest:Yes.

00:19:10Guest:And do you do it when you exercise?

00:19:12Guest:It's usually on the tail end of it.

00:19:14Guest:Okay.

00:19:14Guest:If you do it while you exercise.

00:19:16Guest:I can move up to the six?

00:19:17Guest:No.

00:19:18Guest:No.

00:19:19Guest:It's not a positive.

00:19:21Guest:It's like, no, you will get sick.

00:19:23Guest:You will.

00:19:24Guest:Yeah, because it will shoot through your bloodstream.

00:19:26Guest:It'll jack everything up.

00:19:29Guest:It makes sense, doesn't it?

00:19:30Marc:Here's what happens.

00:19:30Marc:I'll get up.

00:19:31Marc:I'll put one in.

00:19:31Marc:Then if I'm on my way to exercise, it'll probably be a half hour, 40 minutes before I get there.

00:19:35Marc:So I'm on the tail end of whatever's available in the fucking thing.

00:19:38Marc:Yeah, you're not experimenting to the level that I'm experimenting.

00:19:41Guest:I used to go to the gym on blow.

00:19:43Guest:I didn't there you go you beat me you beat me I never understood that dude I was I was under the bed on blow yeah I was looking through the yeah looking through the peephole for eight hours I don't know what the fuck I was absolutely a thousand percent I was not that guy how

00:20:01Guest:How?

00:20:02Marc:I had a buddy of mine like who did blow much longer than me.

00:20:05Marc:Like, you know, I got out of it and I was hanging out with him once and he was doing a couple of lines and literally he did two lines and within five minutes was at the door.

00:20:13Marc:Do you hear that?

00:20:14Marc:What's going on?

00:20:15Marc:I'm like, how is this fun for you?

00:20:16Marc:I knew another guy who was shooting speed balls in Hollywood and he had a heart monitor machine.

00:20:22Marc:So he'd do it and just watch the machine.

00:20:24Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:25Marc:Yeah.

00:20:25Marc:I was never that guy.

00:20:26Guest:Yeah.

00:20:26Guest:No, I wasn't that guy, but I was looking through the people.

00:20:29Guest:I actually, this is a true story.

00:20:31Guest:I was in New York.

00:20:32Guest:I was living on 86th street and I was looking through the people for quite a few hours.

00:20:38Guest:I was positive.

00:20:39Guest:I saw somebody's shoulder, a black shoulder, a black shirt, just a shoulder.

00:20:44Guest:No, no, no, no.

00:20:45Guest:A black shirt, which was probably a cop.

00:20:48Guest:And I spent a good five hours looking through the peephole.

00:20:52Guest:My eye was getting super sore.

00:20:55Guest:And then you'd release from the peephole because you knew this is because of the drugs that you're doing.

00:21:02Guest:Just walk away and try to have a good time.

00:21:05Guest:And by the time you got within four inches away from the peephole and you go, yeah, but what if?

00:21:11Guest:And then you go right back to the people that I graduated to under the bed.

00:21:16Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:21:16Guest:And then all of a sudden, this is a true story.

00:21:19Guest:It's not in the book.

00:21:19Guest:Yeah.

00:21:21Guest:All of a sudden, I heard the lock in the door.

00:21:24Guest:Oh, no.

00:21:24Guest:And then the door...

00:21:26Guest:and I was like, holy shit.

00:21:29Guest:Like literally my relationship with cocaine was fucked for the rest of my life because you always think somebody's coming, but nobody's actually coming, but somebody came.

00:21:39Guest:And it turned out to be my ex-wife, right?

00:21:43Guest:The mother of my older children who decided to do this wonderful thing and come over and clean my apartment just for the fuck of it out of the goodness of her heart.

00:21:51Guest:I spent 45 minutes under the bed watching a mop.

00:21:56Guest:watching a moving mob.

00:21:58Guest:And that's a true story.

00:21:59Guest:Panic in your eyes.

00:22:00Guest:And I've never told that story.

00:22:01Guest:Panic in your eyes?

00:22:03Guest:Oh, my abject panic.

00:22:05Guest:And also, when are you going to leave so I can keep doing this?

00:22:08Guest:I went right to a psychosis.

00:22:10Marc:Like I, you know, my paranoia became mystical.

00:22:14Marc:Yeah.

00:22:14Marc:So I, you know, I lost my mind.

00:22:16Marc:I was hearing voices.

00:22:16Marc:I didn't get the transition.

00:22:17Guest:It was universal.

00:22:18Marc:Totally.

00:22:19Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:19Marc:I didn't get the sort of like, do you hear that?

00:22:21Marc:Yeah.

00:22:21Marc:No, for me, it's like, oh, I'm hearing stuff.

00:22:23Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:22:24Guest:I was still in practical land.

00:22:25Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:22:26Marc:No, way out.

00:22:27Marc:Way out.

00:22:28Marc:So, well, that's good.

00:22:30Marc:We got the addiction talk.

00:22:32Marc:I don't know.

00:22:32Marc:I just think it's the way my brain works.

00:22:34Marc:How are you feeling in general?

00:22:37Marc:Good, man.

00:22:37Guest:There's something, you know.

00:22:39Guest:I'm going to put another one in now.

00:22:40Guest:I feel like I've got to keep up.

00:22:41Guest:That's okay.

00:22:42Guest:I'm right with you right now.

00:22:44Guest:I'm starting to sweat.

00:22:46Guest:You know, an honest answer to your question is I feel...

00:22:50Guest:I was in the middle of doing the audible for this book.

00:22:53Guest:That's fun, right?

00:22:54Guest:Did you like it?

00:22:55Marc:No.

00:22:55Marc:You know what's fucked up about doing the audible for your books?

00:22:59Marc:You're reading your shit and the producer goes, could you go back?

00:23:02Marc:And you're like, wait, it's me.

00:23:04Guest:They're directing you.

00:23:05Guest:I know how this is meant to be read.

00:23:07Guest:And yet you're vulnerable to somebody else actually having some kind of objectivity.

00:23:12Guest:Right.

00:23:12Guest:So you welcome that.

00:23:14Guest:And then on top of it, being a decent reader, being somebody who's pretty comfortable reading in public, I was stuttering through my shit left and right.

00:23:23Guest:I couldn't get through two sentences without fucking up a word.

00:23:28Guest:So it took these days.

00:23:29Guest:No, it took me four days.

00:23:31Guest:It was fine.

00:23:32Guest:They were doing that thing like, this is so good.

00:23:35Guest:This is great.

00:23:36Guest:And I'm like, you're lying to me.

00:23:38Guest:You think I'm that type of a person or actor or whatever that is surrounded by a bunch of yes people that just needs a little stroke.

00:23:46Guest:Yeah.

00:23:46Guest:a little penis rub, and then everything's okay with it.

00:23:50Guest:Everything's okay for an hour.

00:23:51Guest:You know, for an hour.

00:23:52Guest:But you're not that guy.

00:23:54Guest:Apparently, I'm not that guy.

00:23:55Guest:I don't perceive myself as being that guy.

00:23:57Guest:So I would go outside, and I would literally spiral, and I would go, what the fuck did I do?

00:24:02Guest:Whatever intention I had of doing, you know, what's considered a memoir, it's like, what would you do?

00:24:07Guest:Okay, you do a thing about the Goonies.

00:24:09Guest:You do a thing about thrashing.

00:24:10Guest:You do a thing about Michael Landon.

00:24:11Guest:You do a thing about...

00:24:12Marc:starting theater you got that's what you want to read right well you read this and it's it's partially that but no it's different mother heavy no but it's different you i think you approached it really well because i think that you know you put the focus on because i just read pacino's oh you did yeah out of it because i talked to him okay and and his is sort of like this kind of like nostalgic you know most kind of like you know emotional but it's very professional

00:24:39Marc:No, no.

00:24:40Marc:Yours is professional, but it's a different type of writing.

00:24:42Marc:He's like, you know, looking back with this, you know, with the sentimentality and moving through these moments.

00:24:48Marc:But you like you focused in on something from your past pieces and you wrote the fuck out of it.

00:24:55Marc:It's very readable because you're doing it in chapters, and each chapter kind of functions on its own as almost a prose poem.

00:25:05Marc:And so you're dealing with feelings of the moment.

00:25:08Marc:You're looking back, but some of it feels immediate.

00:25:11Marc:But there's also – you wrote it.

00:25:14Marc:It wasn't like, I remember when I was, you know, you're in the moment, you're having feelings, you're doing it poetically, you're doing it with language.

00:25:23Marc:So it's really a writerly thing.

00:25:26Marc:It's not like, you know, when I was born, you know.

00:25:29Guest:No, and then I, you know, I used to do little plays in front of my family when I was four, and they go, we knew he was going to be an actor, and I knew.

00:25:36Guest:How about the filmmaker?

00:25:37Guest:Like, well, I had a Super 8 camera.

00:25:39Guest:Here we go.

00:25:40Guest:Yeah.

00:25:41Guest:Fucking.

00:25:41Guest:I can't, like, it's stuff.

00:25:43Guest:If I read Pacino's, by the way, I was surprised to hear how many people have memoirs out that had no place in writing their memoirs, meaning somebody else wrote their memoirs.

00:25:56Guest:Well, that's it.

00:25:57Guest:They talked to a guy.

00:25:58Guest:But I didn't know that.

00:26:00Guest:I didn't even know that was possible.

00:26:01Guest:You wouldn't have done that.

00:26:02Guest:How can you do that?

00:26:05Marc:If you have your own vernacular and you have your own perspective.

00:26:07Marc:If you have your own vernacular, but some people can tell stories, but they can't write.

00:26:10Marc:And the interesting thing about guys who write books about their lives, who have editors, and this is not going to happen with this book, is that you talk to them, because I don't usually read the books, because then you have a conversation where they're always going, like, well, in the book, or I already know what I'm asking, which is, I don't like that.

00:26:31Marc:Yeah.

00:26:31Marc:But I have been reading the books more because, you know, I want to have a through line.

00:26:36Marc:But when you want to hear the story from the book, they can't tell it like it's in the book because they told it to a guy.

00:26:42Marc:It's edited.

00:26:43Marc:It's made better.

00:26:44Marc:So then you're like, tell me that story.

00:26:45Marc:And it's not even that they're saying it's in the book, but the story they're going to tell is three sentences.

00:26:49Marc:And the story in the book is two pages with a full arc.

00:26:52Marc:And you're like, fuck.

00:26:53Guest:Hence, getting a writer to write your memoir.

00:26:54Guest:That's right.

00:26:55Guest:You can't tell stories.

00:26:56Guest:I get it.

00:26:56Guest:It's probably a positive.

00:26:58Guest:But at the same time, you want it revealed.

00:27:00Guest:You're like, look, I know this story or there's something or what's the what's the thing in the book that was most profound to you?

00:27:06Guest:What was a milestone that was most profound to you?

00:27:09Guest:And you realize, I don't know.

00:27:10Guest:I didn't write the book.

00:27:12Guest:I'm just or I'm just promoting the book.

00:27:14Marc:Because even in reading the first 40 pages or whatever, I'm already making marks because there's thoughts.

00:27:22Marc:See, that's the thing.

00:27:22Marc:It's not just a reflection.

00:27:24Marc:It's a thought.

00:27:26Marc:I miss feeling that anything could happen at any moment outside of me.

00:27:32Marc:And that's talking about your mother.

00:27:33Marc:And like that in and of itself as a piece of poetic language is sort of a component of your entire sense of self and what you've been dealing with through your whole life.

00:27:44Marc:But that's what I'm going to – this is the kind of book where you kind of can lock into that.

00:27:48Marc:You know, and then there's another thing you wrote about talking to famous people who none you mention and just make this comment about the nature of actors who like to hear about other actors, mundane activities.

00:28:00Marc:And then that elevates those things to a story that becomes mythic.

00:28:05Marc:Like these are, you know, these are like these are ideas and thoughts and understanding.

00:28:12Marc:There's a sense of you throughout this book trying to understand who you are, but also understand the world and ultimately ending up with like, I don't know, what did you end up with?

00:28:22Guest:But you just said it, me trying to understand who I am.

00:28:25Guest:So if it's based on journals, when I put this, okay, two stories.

00:28:29Guest:One is the piece that you're talking about is about somebody specific that was written straightforward.

00:28:36Guest:Were you talking to the writer?

00:28:37Marc:I was talking to the writer and you realized he wasn't really registering you as somebody he might want to talk to.

00:28:42Marc:And then you started thinking about all these conversations.

00:28:45Guest:I was talking to Sam Shepard and I was trying to impress Sam Shepard.

00:28:48Guest:Okay.

00:28:49Guest:That's basically what it was.

00:28:50Guest:It's funny because you've read a lot of Sam Shepard.

00:28:53Guest:I've read a lot of Sam Shepard.

00:28:55Guest:I knew Sam really well.

00:28:56Guest:There's a sense.

00:28:58Guest:I'm sure that there's a bleed over.

00:29:01Guest:There's definitely an influence.

00:29:02Marc:An influence.

00:29:03Marc:I don't think it's a bleed over.

00:29:04Guest:I think there's a lot of influences.

00:29:06Marc:Well, I, you know, because when I was younger, I, you know, I read a lot of Sam Shepard.

00:29:09Marc:I remember wrote a piece that, you know, there was there's a language that Shepard has this sort of cowboy poetry thing that that is is it's it's a fine delivery system.

00:29:19Marc:And, you know, it's not even a matter of appropriating or or mimicking.

00:29:24Marc:It's just that, you know, you're going to find your voice through other voices eventually.

00:29:28Marc:Always.

00:29:29Guest:Always.

00:29:29Guest:And to deny that is a joke.

00:29:31Guest:Totally.

00:29:32Guest:I mean, it's one of the connections and one of the reasons I was excited to come back here because I remember when we were doing our thing, you had books in the background.

00:29:39Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:29:40Guest:And I'd be like, I would kind of comment on those books.

00:29:42Guest:They're all upstairs now.

00:29:43Guest:You know what I mean?

00:29:44Guest:It's like, hey, remember that guy?

00:29:47Guest:And there's Lou Reed and there's Bukowski and there's this.

00:29:50Guest:And I think it was me.

00:29:51Guest:So two things.

00:29:52Guest:One, it was me finally when you hit 50 and you go, you know what?

00:29:56Guest:All this talk about shit.

00:29:58Guest:It's like, I've had it.

00:29:59Guest:Yeah.

00:30:00Guest:I've had it.

00:30:01Guest:Yeah.

00:30:01Guest:Like if you, if you want to like shit on the playwright, then go write a play.

00:30:05Guest:Yeah.

00:30:05Guest:If you're going to talk about, you know, writerly things, then go write a book.

00:30:09Guest:Right.

00:30:09Guest:And then C, try your hand.

00:30:11Guest:Most humbling experience of my life writing this book.

00:30:14Guest:Very vulnerable.

00:30:15Guest:You write 90,000 words and then knock it down to 53,000 words.

00:30:19Guest:And you're slashing and cutting and refining.

00:30:22Guest:I had a good editor, but I spent a lot of time doing this shit myself.

00:30:26Guest:Uh-huh.

00:30:26Guest:We don't need it.

00:30:27Guest:I'm in love with it.

00:30:28Guest:We don't need it.

00:30:29Guest:I have 15 words in that sentence, and I know nine is better, and I know six is even better.

00:30:35Guest:What was the main reason for not needing it?

00:30:38Guest:Redundancy?

00:30:40Guest:Redundancy, add-on, icing.

00:30:44Guest:All this kind of shit that you don't need.

00:30:46Marc:Oh, yeah, just literally overwrite something.

00:30:48Marc:Yeah, I described it.

00:30:49Guest:And especially if you have any kind of poetic predilections, you want to kind of flower it up.

00:30:56Guest:Oh, totally.

00:30:56Guest:And it's all bullshit.

00:30:57Guest:Yeah, totally bullshit.

00:30:58Guest:So if you're doing that in a journal, it's all good.

00:31:01Guest:So you can masturbate to it.

00:31:03Guest:But when you're doing it for public consumption, you're going, there's a great story of Raymond Carver.

00:31:09Guest:And Raymond Carver, he had an editor...

00:31:11Guest:And they were saying, look, he had like 12 words or whatever, 15 words in a sentence.

00:31:15Guest:And his editor kept saying, knock it down to 12, knock it down to 11.

00:31:19Guest:And then finally he got so incensed that he fired the editor and he got a new editor.

00:31:23Guest:And the editor saw the new sentence that was down till 11 or 12 and said, now if we can just knock it down to eight or nine, we'll be there.

00:31:30Guest:And he's like, fuck you.

00:31:31Guest:And he got a Pulitzer for it.

00:31:33Marc:He's pretty lean too, Carver.

00:31:35Guest:Well, super lean.

00:31:35Guest:He obviously listened.

00:31:37Guest:Even if he fought, he listened to his editors.

00:31:39Guest:And I don't know how it's like me talking about trading stocks.

00:31:42Guest:It's not that fucking interesting to a bunch of people talking about writing.

00:31:46Guest:But I do think that there's a sense like a painter.

00:31:49Guest:If you were Michelangelo, you painted under a teacher doing the same fucking painting for a year.

00:31:57Guest:Yeah.

00:31:58Guest:You know, generate your skills.

00:32:00Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:32:00Guest:You know, germinate what you have.

00:32:02Guest:So me reading whoever I read, you know, you're the first person, by the way, to bring up Sam.

00:32:07Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:32:08Guest:Which I appreciate because there's the influencer.

00:32:10Guest:There's the Kerouac influencer.

00:32:12Guest:There's the Mailer influencer.

00:32:13Guest:There's the, you know, Joan Didion influencer.

00:32:15Guest:There's whatever.

00:32:16Guest:Yeah.

00:32:17Guest:And then you finally, which I think this book has, you finally find your own voice.

00:32:21Guest:Totally.

00:32:22Guest:You finally let go of all...

00:32:24Guest:The plagiarism.

00:32:26Guest:Yeah.

00:32:26Guest:And you go, I'm just writing what I'm writing, whether they like it or not.

00:32:30Marc:Well, yeah, because, like, it's not even plagiarism, though.

00:32:32Marc:You know, you have a group of influences that built your sense of expression.

00:32:38Marc:Absolutely.

00:32:39Marc:You know, there's no pure expression, like, as an actor or whatever.

00:32:44Marc:You know, you're just going to be crying.

00:32:46Marc:Seriously.

00:32:48I know.

00:32:48Marc:Yeah.

00:32:49Marc:Look at me act.

00:32:50Marc:Watch me emote.

00:32:51Marc:Well, yeah, but there is something.

00:32:53Marc:I mean, I know you trivialize it a bit, but, you know, there's something about being able to access that.

00:32:59Marc:You know, I learned something when Sharon, I just did a movie.

00:33:01Marc:It's the first time I ever did a lead in a movie, and I had to do it.

00:33:05Marc:And I don't think I would have been able to do it before this, and I'm not sure how I did, but I was ready for the challenge.

00:33:11Marc:Right.

00:33:11Guest:You had done enough work where you were ready.

00:33:13Guest:Right.

00:33:14Marc:I knew how to be on set, and I had enough confidence to thrive.

00:33:19Guest:You knew how to be on set, but you had already acted in several different roles.

00:33:23Guest:I mean, many different roles.

00:33:25Marc:Yeah, a few.

00:33:26Marc:A few.

00:33:26Marc:But this guy...

00:33:27Marc:The movie's about an actor who started out with integrity early on, did real stuff, did a few movies that were kind of hits.

00:33:35Marc:You know, he fucked some guy's wife and married her, a big actress.

00:33:38Marc:And the fourth movie they did together, Tanks, and then he was kind of in the wilderness for a while trying to get back his credibility.

00:33:44Marc:And then he took a sitcom for five years, and that's how he became known.

00:33:48Marc:That's backstory.

00:33:49Marc:That's pretty cool.

00:33:49Marc:So here we are at 60 at the age this guy is now.

00:33:53Marc:And at the beginning of the movie, he gets diagnosed with stage four bowel cancer.

00:33:59Marc:And he becomes obsessed with the need to be in the in-memoria montage at the Oscars.

00:34:04Marc:It's the only thing that's going to give his life meaning.

00:34:07Marc:And he doesn't think he has their resume for it.

00:34:10Marc:So he's got to figure out all these angles to try to get into the montage.

00:34:14Marc:It's crazy.

00:34:14Marc:But my biggest fear, not having the confidence of an actor, is this guy's supposed to be a good actor.

00:34:21Marc:Yeah.

00:34:22Marc:And there's a couple of scenes where he's acting in the movie.

00:34:25Marc:So all I was worried about is, like, if I don't make those fucking things credible, the whole thing's gone.

00:34:30Guest:Right.

00:34:31Guest:So that was like intense.

00:34:33Guest:You got a bad actor to play a good actor about shitty scenarios, shitty situations.

00:34:39Marc:Well, it's like I'm playing this guy Langston who's known for this sitcom, but he was a great actor.

00:34:43Marc:And so the opening sequence is him on a procedural being interrogated.

00:34:49Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:34:49Marc:For trying to get him to admit he murdered his wife.

00:34:53Marc:So the only way I can think of that is like, well, the contrast has got to be so extreme when I come out of that that you realize, oh, that's not the guy.

00:35:00Marc:So I don't know.

00:35:02Marc:But I had a scene with Sharon Stone that just changed my fucking life, dude.

00:35:05Marc:Why?

00:35:06Marc:I've told the story, but it was fucking nuts.

00:35:09Marc:I love her, man.

00:35:10Marc:She's the best.

00:35:11Marc:Yeah, she's the best.

00:35:12Marc:But she does this movie because she likes me.

00:35:14Marc:She doesn't even read the script, and then she reads it, and she's fucking all in, and she's going to do this one scene.

00:35:19Marc:And it's written as a comedy, but she came fucking loaded.

00:35:23Marc:She's in this mansion.

00:35:24Marc:She's got the turban on, and she's pale, and she's doing a whole Norma Desmond thing.

00:35:29Marc:And I walk in for this scene, and I'm like, I'm going to get eaten for fucking lunch.

00:35:33Marc:There's nothing I'm going to... How am I even going to keep it together?

00:35:36Marc:So we do...

00:35:39Marc:So we do two takes.

00:35:42Marc:And I'm like, I'm not even a character.

00:35:44Marc:I'm just Mark going like, what am I doing?

00:35:46Marc:And she's grabbing my face.

00:35:48Marc:And so we break for lunch.

00:35:51Marc:And I'm pretty sure I'm looking at the set.

00:35:53Marc:And I'm pretty sure everyone's like, he's not going to do it.

00:35:56Guest:It's too bad.

00:35:57Guest:It's too bad we decided yes on this movie.

00:36:00Marc:And I go back to my trailer.

00:36:01Guest:Fucking great podcast, but man.

00:36:03Marc:Yeah, I don't know what we were thinking.

00:36:04Marc:And I go back to my trailer and my manager's there.

00:36:07Marc:He's hanging around and I'm just full on like, what the fuck am I doing in this?

00:36:11Marc:It's Sharon Stone.

00:36:12Marc:I can't fucking do this.

00:36:13Marc:God fucking damn it.

00:36:15Marc:She's eating me for lunch out there.

00:36:17Marc:There's nothing I can do.

00:36:18Guest:Which sounds more, by the way, like the character than you.

00:36:21Guest:Right.

00:36:22Guest:Right.

00:36:22Guest:Well, it gets, you know, how it goes.

00:36:24Marc:But then somehow or another, Josh, I like, you know, after lunch, I'm like, dude, you know, you've talked, you talked, you just talked to Pacino, you got some tips.

00:36:32Marc:And I kept thinking about Ethan Hawke talking about, you know, when he worked with Denzel.

00:36:36Marc:on training day and how he'd watched all of denzel's movies like they were game tapes yeah so he could i say i just thought like you know ground yourself you don't like this woman she dumped you you resent her you're jealous of her this is this is the guy yeah so you walk in there with some fucking you know control of this situation did it help totally did it totally interesting

00:36:57Marc:Because it was one of those situations, I know it's acting, you know, it's not life or death, but like, you know, if you don't ground yourself and what's that, you know, if you don't say like, this is what's happening.

00:37:08Marc:Like, you know, like I, the week before I talked to Pacino and he had these five things, I don't know who given him, you know, go to the character.

00:37:14Marc:Why are you there?

00:37:14Marc:Where'd you come from?

00:37:15Marc:What is this?

00:37:16Marc:And I'm like, that's, that's it.

00:37:19Marc:It's Stroudsburg.

00:37:20Marc:Yeah.

00:37:20Marc:So I just fucking locked in, but then we're getting to the cry thing, right?

00:37:23Marc:Right.

00:37:23Marc:And I'm telling Sharon, I'm like – we have a relationship.

00:37:28Marc:She's being very kind.

00:37:30Marc:She says, what makes you cry?

00:37:34Marc:And I'm like, well, you know, I'm at that age where I cry a little at a lot of things.

00:37:38Marc:And she goes, I know what makes you cry.

00:37:40Marc:And I'm like, really?

00:37:41Marc:She goes, you know, it makes you cry.

00:37:43Marc:And she, you know, she had been pretty supportive after my partner passed after Lynn died, you know, and I'd been thinking about that anyways.

00:37:50Marc:But, you know, it's one of those weird things.

00:37:51Marc:You can't just think of a person or a dog dying and cry.

00:37:54Marc:It's like it's a bigger thing.

00:37:57Guest:You can, but I think it's the – in having done this for 40 years, it's to me the relaxation.

00:38:04Guest:Be open to it.

00:38:06Guest:Be open to it.

00:38:07Guest:Be open to anything.

00:38:08Guest:Right.

00:38:09Guest:So there's the pre kind of –

00:38:12Guest:determined idea of, listen, this is what actors do to make themselves cry.

00:38:18Guest:Why do people cry?

00:38:19Guest:Because they're sad about something.

00:38:20Guest:Really?

00:38:21Guest:Always?

00:38:22Guest:So I would be in a corner slapping myself at 17 years old, not willing to talk to anybody, probably because I heard a story about Pacino or probably because I heard a story about Denzel.

00:38:34Guest:And again, it's like we're talking about this book where at what point do you become your own guy?

00:38:38Guest:Right.

00:38:38Guest:At what point do you start saying, fuck it, no matter how much fear you feel?

00:38:42Guest:Because I always am saturated by fear.

00:38:44Guest:Yeah.

00:38:45Guest:I was so saturated by fear when I did the first, I did a two episode Highway to Heaven with Michael Landon.

00:38:51Guest:Yeah.

00:38:51Guest:It was the third job I ever had.

00:38:53Guest:And all I remember about the job is making sure that my legs were straight enough that I was literally almost breaking my knees backwards because my legs were shaking so bad.

00:39:03Guest:I knew everybody would see and I knew everybody would call me out.

00:39:07Guest:Right.

00:39:07Guest:So there comes a time, there came a time at least like with crying, which was a big thing for me because I didn't cry when things were sad.

00:39:15Guest:I'm just the type of guy that when things get super severe, I get very calm because it's like, I'm the guy that you actually want there.

00:39:23Guest:I'm the military kind of minded guy that's going to actually help because he can see clearly what needs to be done.

00:39:31Guest:And then afterwards I have whatever PTSD you have.

00:39:34Guest:For me, when I see a mother,

00:39:36Guest:pick up a car in order to save her son.

00:39:40Guest:If I experience a heroic act and if I think of that in my head, I will fucking blubber like I've never... But I didn't know that for 20 years.

00:39:51Marc:Well, what happened for me was...

00:39:54Marc:It's like you said, though.

00:39:56Marc:I'm a comic, so my entire career is based on not crying.

00:40:00Marc:All I'm doing is professionally not crying.

00:40:04Marc:Totally.

00:40:04Marc:That's so well put.

00:40:07Guest:That's true.

00:40:07Guest:That's my job.

00:40:08Guest:Making other people cry.

00:40:11Marc:Right.

00:40:11Marc:So here I am in this moment, and she brings up Lynn, and then she says to me, she goes, you know, just do the scene to her, and I'll make sure she's here.

00:40:20Marc:Wow.

00:40:21Marc:I'm choking up now.

00:40:22Marc:Yeah.

00:40:23Marc:But the thing was, like you were saying, it wasn't, you know, just the loss.

00:40:27Marc:What got me to the place was because of my lack of belief in myself, that woman who passed away always believed in me.

00:40:35Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:40:36Marc:And it thrilled her when I acted.

00:40:39Marc:So it was that sense of her presence of believing in me.

00:40:42Marc:There you go.

00:40:43Marc:A positive.

00:40:45Marc:Right.

00:40:45Marc:It's so good, though.

00:40:46Marc:Yeah.

00:40:47Marc:It changed my life because of what you're saying.

00:40:49Marc:It's that moment where you realize...

00:40:52Marc:I don't give a fuck.

00:40:54Marc:If I'm going to be open to this, if I'm going to be honest about the truth of a scene, why can't you do that in your life?

00:41:00Marc:Even with comedy, it's like, what do I got to worry about?

00:41:03Marc:Like, I've been doing this my whole fucking life.

00:41:05Marc:And every time you do it, you're like, I got to get them right up front.

00:41:08Marc:And I'm like, I don't have to get them at all.

00:41:10Marc:Fuck them.

00:41:11Guest:But the whole thing is you go in there wanting to win.

00:41:14Guest:You want, you want to go in there.

00:41:15Guest:You're, you're, you're saturated in abject fear.

00:41:19Guest:Yeah.

00:41:19Guest:You want people to tell you good.

00:41:21Guest:You want, and you forget all everything that it's about.

00:41:24Guest:You forget about listening.

00:41:26Guest:You forget about connection.

00:41:27Guest:You forget about the fact that all, all people just want to fucking connect.

00:41:32Guest:Yeah.

00:41:33Guest:They want to be seen.

00:41:34Guest:They want to be accepted.

00:41:35Guest:They want to be like, literally that's what art comes down to.

00:41:38Guest:Yeah.

00:41:38Guest:I've never called myself an artist.

00:41:40Guest:I've always found it very difficult to say, well, you know, as an artist.

00:41:43Guest:And I go, like, what does that mean?

00:41:45Guest:What is it?

00:41:46Guest:But I do believe that through the process of this book, and I'm not just bringing it back to the book, just like that's what it was, is I go...

00:41:55Guest:When I was doing the audible, I go, what the fuck did I do?

00:41:58Guest:Because like you was sharing, I just got to a place where I just said, I, this is me.

00:42:04Guest:This is me exploring.

00:42:07Guest:This is me coming from a place that I think was interesting.

00:42:12Guest:of such extreme behavior that you can, if you, from certain perspectives, you could call it trauma and you go, and somebody who found their way into being able to manifest creativity in a way that became a professional, professionally viable.

00:42:28Guest:Yeah.

00:42:29Guest:And then was still stuck in that habit of self-destruction and then found his way out of that too, because he was more into this idea of being,

00:42:39Guest:refusing not to have a Sharon Stone moment.

00:42:42Guest:Yeah.

00:42:43Guest:Right.

00:42:44Guest:Right.

00:42:44Guest:You know what I mean?

00:42:45Guest:Sure.

00:42:45Guest:I'm not interested in living the fucking life where you go, Hey man, like you hit the golf, but you should have used a fucking six iron dude.

00:42:53Guest:And I'm like, I'm not interested.

00:42:55Guest:Yeah.

00:42:55Guest:I'm not interested.

00:42:56Marc:And that's okay.

00:42:57Marc:That's okay.

00:42:58Marc:Yeah.

00:42:58Marc:Yeah, I mean, that's one thing that's starting to happen, certainly with the way that culture is shifting and the way that, you know, artists are being diminished or marginalized or thought of as like, you know, fucking pansies or whatever, is that, you know, the work of it.

00:43:17Marc:And I think the driving fact for me in going into that Sharon thing and in talking to Pacino and what you're saying now is what is the truth of the scene?

00:43:28Mm-hmm.

00:43:28Marc:Like, what is it?

00:43:30Marc:And it's the same with the journey of the book.

00:43:32Marc:You know, what is the truth of this moment that you're trying to get at?

00:43:36Marc:Even if you don't land on it, if you work around it enough, it will magically float above it.

00:43:42Marc:And that's the whole fucking journey.

00:43:45Marc:You know, the truth of which iron you should use is relative.

00:43:49Marc:And I'm not going to take anything away from that.

00:43:51Marc:I mean, really.

00:43:53Marc:But it is not...

00:43:55Marc:So it's not going to give you some sort of compelling existential sort of transcendence, you know.

00:44:05Guest:If you're interested in that.

00:44:06Guest:I guess.

00:44:07Guest:And if you're not.

00:44:07Marc:And I'm going to get golfers.

00:44:08Marc:I don't have that many.

00:44:09Guest:No, I know you're going to get golfers.

00:44:11Guest:Just fuck Brolin'.

00:44:12Guest:You know what I mean?

00:44:13Guest:I love golfing.

00:44:13Guest:I love going out there, but I like, it's the personal challenge and it's the willing to be able to say, look, do I want it?

00:44:20Guest:Do I want to experience, I want to experience life as if I'm on LSD.

00:44:25Guest:That's my thing.

00:44:26Guest:I just can't take LSD anymore.

00:44:28Guest:I just, I want a vivid experience.

00:44:30Marc:But also the connection, like even, I don't remember which story it was, but I got choked up and I'm relatively open and I'm sure there's a lot of unresolved things in my heart that I haven't cried over.

00:44:43Marc:But the fact is, is that you get moved.

00:44:45Marc:Those moments are important.

00:44:48Marc:I mean, that's the whole thing.

00:44:50Marc:The vulnerability of that connection you were talking about, that when other people witness it, it connects them to something, this sort of

00:45:00Guest:the the the bigger sort of pain of being alive and and that relief of that one way or the other i mean that's that's all we got really supposed to be anyways if it if that's meaningful to you but it should be meaningful but it should be meaningful to everybody but it's not necessarily but i don't necessarily even that i don't believe even the people that we demonize yeah and you go they don't give a fuck

00:45:24Guest:Like there are evil people out there for sure.

00:45:26Guest:Sure.

00:45:26Guest:Yeah.

00:45:27Guest:But I've experienced, you know, I mean, what, what's a good example is it's something that, that I do.

00:45:32Guest:Yeah.

00:45:32Guest:I did with my dad.

00:45:33Guest:Yeah.

00:45:33Guest:My dad is more of an introverted kind of tight, tightly wound guy and he smiles and he goes, Hey, how are you?

00:45:41Guest:Yeah.

00:45:42Guest:How you doing?

00:45:43Guest:You happy today?

00:45:44Guest:You know?

00:45:44Guest:And you go, no, I'm not necessarily happy and I don't really care as much.

00:45:48Guest:Like whatever's going on today is going on today.

00:45:50Guest:Yeah.

00:45:51Guest:Something about me when I was younger used to love to grab him and kiss him on the cheek.

00:45:55Guest:Yeah.

00:45:56Guest:Just to jar him.

00:45:58Guest:But I don't know if it was to jar him or me saying, this is the direction that I want to go.

00:46:04Guest:Yeah.

00:46:05Guest:I'm not going to follow this status quo idea of what you guys deem appropriate.

00:46:09Guest:Right.

00:46:10Guest:I want to go a little bit further.

00:46:11Guest:I don't know.

00:46:12Guest:I think I got that from my mother.

00:46:14Guest:Yeah.

00:46:14Guest:Like, why not challenge just because it's presented this way isn't necessarily the way it needs to be.

00:46:22Guest:It doesn't need to settle into this.

00:46:24Marc:Well, it's great because in the way you characterize your mother, she's, you know, a pretty exciting character.

00:46:30Marc:She is.

00:46:30Marc:But the thing is, is that you have that in you, but you also have the ability to go like, what am I doing?

00:46:36Marc:Yeah, totally.

00:46:37Marc:Which she didn't.

00:46:38Marc:No.

00:46:39Marc:And that's like, that's a whole different game.

00:46:41Marc:That's the gift.

00:46:43Marc:Yeah.

00:46:43Marc:And the torture.

00:46:45Marc:Right.

00:46:45Marc:But like for me, even when I did drugs, I'd always said going into it because most of my heroes were drug addicts.

00:46:51Marc:Right.

00:46:51Marc:So I always said, like, well, if I ever, you know, lose my mind, I'm going to stop.

00:46:57Marc:And how are you going to know?

00:46:58Marc:But there is and I imagine you've gotten there, too.

00:47:01Marc:There's an edge.

00:47:01Marc:Everyone's got an edge to it.

00:47:03Marc:Yeah.

00:47:03Marc:And the difference between somebody who ends up totally broken and somebody who comes back is just that foundation of self that doesn't want to die or lose themselves entirely.

00:47:15Marc:And if you have that, it's a gift in terms of if you have those propensities for chaos and fucking self-abuse.

00:47:24Guest:Yeah.

00:47:25Guest:And that's why when you raise kids now, because I have a 36-year-old, a 31-year-old, a 6-year-old, and a 3-year-old.

00:47:30Marc:You had two with that first one?

00:47:32Guest:I did.

00:47:32Marc:Yeah.

00:47:33Guest:And then I was married in between somebody else.

00:47:37Guest:And then I was, and then now I'm married and I have a six year old and a three year old.

00:47:41Guest:Then you raise kids and there's something that I push a lot of like responsibility and character building and all this kind of stuff.

00:47:47Guest:And I have two little girls and,

00:47:50Guest:I look back on my childhood.

00:47:52Guest:There's a story that's not even in there, that my mother came from Texas.

00:47:55Guest:She ran away from Texas when she was, I think, 17 years old or 19 years old.

00:47:59Guest:She had a couple hundred bucks in her pocket.

00:48:02Guest:She was a pretty staunch Baptist, and then she started fucking all these married men.

00:48:09Guest:She got to Hollywood and kind of got in that whole thing and nucleus, and she was never an actress.

00:48:15Guest:She was actor adjacent.

00:48:17Guest:She was actor adjacent.

00:48:18Guest:They're kind of essential.

00:48:19Guest:That's exactly right.

00:48:20Guest:Seriously, which is even worse.

00:48:22Guest:And then you go, so where do I put this now?

00:48:25Guest:I put it back in my Zin pack.

00:48:26Marc:No, you can throw it in that garbage right there.

00:48:28Marc:Oh, I can't.

00:48:28Guest:Oh, perfect.

00:48:30Guest:So anyway, she went a little nuts one day, and then she took a bunch of pills, and she got in the car, and she hit a bunch of parked cars.

00:48:37Guest:So the guys in the white coats came to get her, and they put her in the paddy wagon, literally, and they took her to Camarillo State Hospital, and she spent three and a half weeks in Camarillo State Hospital.

00:48:47Guest:And when she was there and she, there was a girl there who had hacked up her entire family and she hadn't spoken a word in 12 years.

00:48:57Guest:And my mother sat next, and I'm sure, I don't know how it went, but my mother was so loud and kind of like, didn't give a shit.

00:49:02Guest:She probably sat down next door and said like, I don't understand why you're not talking.

00:49:06Guest:Do you never talk?

00:49:08Guest:Like, do you never, do you talk in your sleep?

00:49:11Yeah.

00:49:11Guest:Do you talk when nobody's around?

00:49:13Guest:And probably fucking annoyed the shit out of her so much that the girl finally said candy.

00:49:18Guest:Yeah.

00:49:18Guest:And it was a huge thing in the hospital.

00:49:20Guest:Like, wow, this woman hasn't spoken.

00:49:22Guest:You've gotten her to speak.

00:49:24Guest:And then the people, so she was put in there.

00:49:27Guest:She was assessed.

00:49:28Guest:And then her friends came to get her.

00:49:29Guest:And she's like, no, I'm fine.

00:49:31Guest:Yeah.

00:49:31Guest:Because she liked it.

00:49:32Guest:Yeah.

00:49:33Guest:She liked it in there.

00:49:34Guest:Yeah.

00:49:34Guest:And when you grow up around that kind of...

00:49:37Guest:Yeah.

00:49:39Guest:You're like, yes, it's traumatizing.

00:49:42Guest:You know, you said it earlier.

00:49:43Guest:You go, I don't know if I've gotten everything out of my heart.

00:49:46Guest:I don't know if you're supposed to, first of all.

00:49:48Guest:Yeah.

00:49:48Guest:I don't know if there's a therapy that like once you've kind of exercised all the bad shit that you just live in the good shit.

00:49:56Guest:Yeah.

00:49:56Guest:Or if you just learn to kind of be malleable within the chaos of the circus.

00:50:02Guest:Sure.

00:50:03Marc:Well, I think that's the best.

00:50:03Marc:I think that if you look at therapy as I think that people who are.

00:50:07Marc:I don't have the victim thing.

00:50:11Marc:I don't either.

00:50:11Marc:And that's really the shift in either you got that naturally or you assume it eventually.

00:50:18Marc:But if that's the disposition you're coming from and you live in it.

00:50:22Marc:Yeah.

00:50:23Marc:I don't know that there's—it's very hard to get better because there's this idea that you're going to be perfect.

00:50:29Marc:And I think—I used to do a joke about it, about going to therapy when you're older, in your 40s, and you've been through enough, and you've been to therapists before.

00:50:38Marc:You should know what you're there for.

00:50:41Marc:Like, you should walk in and just be like, look, there's a lot of things we're not going to be able to unfuck.

00:50:45Marc:Right.

00:50:45Marc:So if we can just tweak the ones that are bothering me now.

00:50:49Marc:That's it.

00:50:49Marc:Yeah.

00:50:50Marc:Be specific.

00:50:51Marc:Yeah.

00:50:51Marc:And but the unfuckable, you know, the things that are, you know, fucked.

00:50:54Marc:Like you said, it's interesting that you're talking about like you can look at it as trauma like that.

00:51:00Marc:There's a decision.

00:51:02Marc:Right.

00:51:02Marc:Because trauma is like a buzzword and trauma therapy is real.

00:51:06Marc:And I think it's I think it's a fairly decent context to treat people.

00:51:11Marc:But but you know what?

00:51:13Marc:And I'm doing this whole bit on stage now about, you know, once you identify your traumas, it's up to you to determine which ones really affected my life and which ones do I just live with.

00:51:22Marc:And it's OK.

00:51:24Marc:He can live there is what it is.

00:51:25Marc:Yeah.

00:51:26Marc:So, I mean, that's the trick of it.

00:51:28Marc:It may all be trauma, but trauma is what defines everybody.

00:51:31Marc:I think so.

00:51:32Guest:Yeah.

00:51:33Guest:And then you have your massive trauma.

00:51:34Guest:You have your trauma of, you know, true PTSD and military trauma and all that kind of stuff.

00:51:39Guest:Yeah.

00:51:39Guest:But how you react to it, and I'm going to bring something up, and this is not meant to be a political thing, but I actually turned on something on the way over here, and you were talking to this chick.

00:51:48Guest:Yeah.

00:51:48Guest:This last, what was her name?

00:51:50Guest:Yeah, you were.

00:51:50Guest:Yeah.

00:51:51Guest:Oh, Robbie Hoffman?

00:51:52Guest:Robbie.

00:51:53Guest:And before that, you were going off and it was, let's call it the morning after.

00:51:56Marc:The morning after, yeah.

00:51:57Guest:Right?

00:51:58Guest:So the morning after, and you were talking about annihilation and all that kind of stuff.

00:52:03Guest:So there's this thing that happened, and it goes back to what we were talking about.

00:52:06Guest:in the beginning where i said i was doing the audible for this book and i started spiraling in the spite and i'm not a spiraling kind of guy yeah i don't victimize myself i don't see myself as a victim but i i just undeniably fucking spiraled yeah and i went down this whirlpool of like shame and what did i do and who do i think i am and all this stuff and nobody cares about this shit anyway and why did i write this and which i hear is very you know common for writers i do that two three times a week you're gonna

00:52:32Marc:That's my morning routine.

00:52:35Marc:You're sitting in an ice bath and I'm doing that.

00:52:37Guest:It's true, actually.

00:52:40Guest:There's something that happened the morning after for me.

00:52:44Yeah.

00:52:45Guest:And I think it's how I've dealt... I think it's in the nucleus of this book.

00:52:50Guest:I think it's how I've dealt with my life for better or worse through and through.

00:52:54Guest:And I go, we have a Republican Senate, we have a Republican House, we have controlled Supreme Court judges, and we have a Republican president now.

00:53:05Guest:And I felt...

00:53:07Guest:jazzed yeah jazzed is the wrong word but i felt i felt like okay all bets are off you go back to this very fucking human place right no i and there's like a nothing to lose mentality right and who gives a fuck about the book and let's put not in a bad way i stand by this book a thousand percent this book is a thousand percent me we're left with just being who we are that's right

00:53:33Guest:That's right.

00:53:34Guest:And there's something exhilarating about that.

00:53:36Marc:No, I feel it too.

00:53:37Guest:Like, because it's all on the table.

00:53:39Guest:It's all on the table, man.

00:53:40Guest:There's nothing hidden.

00:53:41Guest:And it was during this whole process that I was like, I don't like this.

00:53:45Guest:I hate politicians.

00:53:47Guest:They're all liars.

00:53:47Guest:They're all trying to be picked.

00:53:49Guest:Yeah.

00:53:50Guest:And then when you have that kind of attention, there's no way that that kind of attention and power doesn't affect you.

00:53:55Guest:There's no way that you can't be infected in some way.

00:53:59Guest:Yeah.

00:53:59Guest:And then after it's all done, you go, okay, so this is what's left.

00:54:04Guest:Yeah, this is where we're at.

00:54:06Guest:This is exactly where we're at.

00:54:09Marc:And I think for me, because I experienced the same thing.

00:54:12Marc:I had to speak up because my audience, they're sensitive people.

00:54:17Marc:And I did feel those feelings.

00:54:19Marc:But after that, it's like you can't sit there going, what are we going to do?

00:54:23Marc:How are we going to, you know, like, this is it, man.

00:54:26Marc:And you got to protect your mind.

00:54:28Marc:And you got to hold on to who you are.

00:54:30Marc:Because the steamrolling effect of like an election that is that kind of efficiently won is that there's going to be this momentum of sort of like, well, you're out of step.

00:54:43Marc:Yeah.

00:54:43Marc:No, I'm not.

00:54:44Marc:Yeah.

00:54:45Marc:I'm not out of step.

00:54:46Marc:Yeah.

00:54:46Marc:I know exactly how I feel and I still feel that way and you guys can, but like I'm thinking about today because I got to do standup, is that like now all of a sudden we're in this mode where you're with people and the numbers being what they're being, people you know and people you have maybe a nice relationship, there's that party that's like, did you... Totally.

00:55:05Marc:Because why?

00:55:06Guest:Are we really friends or are we not?

00:55:08Guest:But that's not the point.

00:55:09Guest:It isn't the point.

00:55:10Guest:The point is, is now how do you get back to which I feel...

00:55:13Guest:You know, when when Biden and Trump came out and didn't shake hands, my thought was, fuck you.

00:55:19Guest:Yeah.

00:55:19Guest:Fuck you guys.

00:55:20Guest:Yeah.

00:55:21Guest:This is the same fucking country.

00:55:22Guest:This is the same umbrella.

00:55:24Guest:And now it's kind of on us as Democrats.

00:55:27Guest:Yeah.

00:55:28Guest:That I have a lot of Republican friends.

00:55:30Guest:I know a lot of Republican people.

00:55:32Guest:I was raised in the country.

00:55:33Guest:I'm surrounded by Republican people who I love, who I can rely on, who I could drop my kids off with, who I trust and all this kind of stuff.

00:55:41Guest:But there's this extreme version of absolutely zero trust that I go, okay, so now we're in a place where we have to confront each other and it's on me.

00:55:52Guest:Uh-huh.

00:55:53Guest:You won.

00:55:54Guest:Whatever that means to you.

00:55:56Guest:Yeah.

00:55:56Guest:You won.

00:55:57Guest:Yeah.

00:55:57Guest:So you, I actually heard it.

00:55:59Guest:Somebody said, I woke up today and it was like Christmas morning.

00:56:02Guest:Yeah.

00:56:02Guest:And I was fucking psycho, whatever.

00:56:05Guest:But I go, okay.

00:56:07Guest:Yeah.

00:56:07Guest:And I hand it to you and that's what happened and that's what is.

00:56:10Guest:And now it's up to me to say, okay, so where's my malleability?

00:56:14Guest:Where do I stand?

00:56:15Guest:Who am I specifically?

00:56:17Guest:Yeah.

00:56:17Guest:Unapologetically.

00:56:19Marc:Yeah, my producer said, you know, the ocean stops at the shore.

00:56:23Guest:There you go.

00:56:25Guest:There you go.

00:56:26Totally, man.

00:56:27Guest:And I am.

00:56:27Guest:I'm exhilarated.

00:56:28Guest:I'm exhilarated to move forward.

00:56:31Guest:I don't want to move away.

00:56:32Guest:I wrestle with that.

00:56:34Guest:I wrestle with that only because things seem more attractive to me, not because there's a negative that I'm running from, but a positive that I'm running toward.

00:56:43Marc:Sure.

00:56:44Marc:Like freedom of mind.

00:56:44Marc:Like we're fucking old.

00:56:46Guest:Yeah.

00:56:46Guest:I mean, how old are you?

00:56:47Guest:56.

00:56:48Marc:Yeah.

00:56:48Marc:So I'm 61.

00:56:49Marc:And it's just sort of like, I did it.

00:56:51Marc:I landed on my feet.

00:56:52Marc:I'm okay.

00:56:53Marc:And can I enjoy that, please?

00:56:55Marc:Yeah, please.

00:56:57Guest:totally can i let myself or will you let me but i like the decibel yeah you know what i mean it's like can i can i enjoy that please i'm not i'm done with that yeah done yeah yeah yeah done with it like can you just can i fucking enjoy that please yeah yeah

00:57:16Guest:Make some room.

00:57:17Marc:The decibel shift is when you're talking to somebody else who's trying to get you to do something.

00:57:25Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:57:25Marc:Can I just, all right, okay, all right.

00:57:27Marc:I'll just do this one thing.

00:57:28Marc:Listen, I'm a big fan.

00:57:31Marc:And we know you're not doing a lot right now, but we just want you to.

00:57:35Marc:Totally.

00:57:36Guest:Oh, my God.

00:57:36Guest:How many fucking times a day do I get that?

00:57:39Guest:Seriously.

00:57:40Guest:The sweetest people on earth.

00:57:41Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:57:41Guest:Yeah.

00:57:42Guest:Yeah.

00:57:42Guest:You are so great.

00:57:43Guest:No, but you are great.

00:57:44Guest:Yeah.

00:57:45Guest:Yeah.

00:57:46Guest:Don't give a shit.

00:57:47Guest:No.

00:57:47Guest:Really.

00:57:48Guest:And you said it before.

00:57:49Guest:It's like this Hollywood thing, too.

00:57:50Guest:And I don't know where I'm going with this.

00:57:51Guest:Yeah.

00:57:52Guest:We all live in the same apartment complex.

00:57:55Yeah.

00:57:55Guest:You said something earlier, and I've always appreciated about you.

00:57:58Guest:And you said, maybe it was probably misquoted, but you were talking about Scorsese.

00:58:02Guest:You worked with Scorsese, right?

00:58:04Guest:No, no.

00:58:04Guest:No?

00:58:04Guest:I did a scene with De Niro once.

00:58:07Guest:Maybe that was it.

00:58:08Guest:Yeah.

00:58:08Guest:Maybe that was it.

00:58:09Guest:Because you always, we associate De Niro with Scorsese.

00:58:13Guest:But there's something about you keep putting yourself, and we're very alike in this way,

00:58:17Guest:Things for me, whether you get Marvel or Dune, there's been some really amazing filmmakers there, but there's a comfort zone in that echelon of movie that I said, okay, I appreciate that, but I miss being scared.

00:58:34Guest:I miss the danger.

00:58:35Guest:I miss not knowing if I can pull it off.

00:58:38Guest:I miss...

00:58:39Guest:really, truly freaking out because I don't know if I can live up to something that's great.

00:58:46Guest:It's the worst.

00:58:47Guest:You know what I mean?

00:58:48Marc:I don't know.

00:58:49Marc:I know that when I do comedy, there's a lot of risk in that, in terms of whatever the context of risk is within that.

00:58:56Marc:Right.

00:58:56Marc:Because I can't help but be me, and I'm not everybody's cup of tea, and it might take people a few minutes.

00:59:02Marc:Yeah.

00:59:02Marc:And then like, you know, I, you know, I've got different decibel levels.

00:59:05Marc:It's like, well, these fuckers are just a bunch of drunk idiots.

00:59:07Marc:I'm going to have to go in hard.

00:59:08Marc:But then you're sort of like, there's no challenge to that.

00:59:10Marc:Right.

00:59:11Marc:Right.

00:59:11Marc:So, so then you start walking up there, you know, I start going up there.

00:59:14Guest:I'm like, I don't know what we're going to do here.

00:59:17Guest:But that's kind of a great place to be.

00:59:18Guest:It's the best place.

00:59:19Guest:To not give a fuck.

00:59:20Guest:That's what I mean.

00:59:21Marc:About that.

00:59:21Marc:But that is exactly what you're talking about.

00:59:24Marc:It was what happened on set the other day.

00:59:26Marc:It's just like that moment when I came back from the trailer after lunch.

00:59:30Marc:You know, it's sort of like, well, all I can do is show up for this and do the best I can.

00:59:35Marc:And I knew I was I knew the risk.

00:59:37Marc:This guy asked me to carry a fucking movie.

00:59:39Marc:I don't know if I can do that and do this acting thing and be an actor who's playing an actor.

00:59:44Marc:But.

00:59:44Guest:To come back to this base place is the most, you know, you and I say it in the same way.

00:59:49Guest:We say, you know, I don't give a fuck, but you do give a fuck, but you're not pandering anymore.

00:59:54Guest:It's not about, do you accept me?

00:59:56Guest:Am I likable?

00:59:57Guest:Am I this?

00:59:58Guest:Am I doing the two?

00:59:59Guest:It becomes about something else.

01:00:01Guest:It becomes much more emotional.

01:00:02Guest:It becomes of spirit.

01:00:04Guest:It becomes all that stuff.

01:00:05Guest:It's very base.

01:00:06Marc:It's base because you can't fake it.

01:00:09Marc:Yeah, you can't fake it.

01:00:10Marc:You know, like, I can't fake it.

01:00:12Marc:When I got this movie, I'm like, I don't know how to become a caricature of myself.

01:00:15Marc:I don't know how to do this broad comedy shit.

01:00:17Marc:I can approach this like it's life or death and that everything's immediate and it's got to be happening here.

01:00:23Marc:And that was what was also weird about the Sharon scene is that it's not clear in that game that we're playing.

01:00:27Marc:Like, I had to cry.

01:00:29Marc:So you don't know why they're crying.

01:00:31Marc:Are they acting?

01:00:31Marc:It's a very weird scene.

01:00:34Marc:Yeah.

01:00:35Marc:But if something's written and the emotions are in it and it's good writing, you're going to fucking cry.

01:00:40Marc:You're going to feel the right thing because it's on the page.

01:00:43Marc:But you also, and I imagine this is probably one of the downsides of the job that I have not had the experience that you have, is that there are moments, and Pacino even talked about it too, where it's like you try, but you don't always get there.

01:00:58Marc:But because you're a professional, only you're going to know that usually.

01:01:02Guest:Only you're going to know.

01:01:03Guest:Well, I don't know if that's true or not.

01:01:05Guest:Only you're going to know that or you feel that.

01:01:07Guest:There's times where you feel like you haven't made it or you've gotten there.

01:01:10Guest:And then you find out that you were compensating so much that you were overdoing it.

01:01:14Guest:And that's why.

01:01:15Guest:And if you just simplify it, that's being a professional.

01:01:17Guest:Being able to do a scene.

01:01:19Guest:Like I did this thing with Rian Johnson.

01:01:21Guest:And that was that thing about being dangerous.

01:01:23Guest:I got a role.

01:01:25Guest:It was Knives Out 3.

01:01:26Guest:Is that out?

01:01:28Guest:No.

01:01:28Guest:Okay.

01:01:29Guest:It comes out in like a year.

01:01:30Guest:And that was one of those dangerous roles that showed up and said, do you want to do this?

01:01:33Guest:And I read it and I said, this is so fucking well written.

01:01:37Guest:I don't know if I'm good enough to do this.

01:01:39Guest:Really?

01:01:40Guest:And I was like, okay.

01:01:41Guest:And you get out there and there's big speeches and I'm doing it in front of Glenn Close.

01:01:45Guest:Yeah.

01:01:45Guest:And, you know, all these actors that I respect, I love, and I'm getting out and I'm shitting my pants, man.

01:01:53Guest:And they're all super excited.

01:01:54Guest:Josh is so funny.

01:01:56Guest:He's so good on the set.

01:01:58Guest:He's great.

01:01:59Guest:You're going to love him.

01:02:00Guest:And then they get there and I'm like shut down in fear and all that.

01:02:04Guest:And then, okay, now these scenes come up.

01:02:06Guest:How are you going to play this scene?

01:02:07Guest:And they're all watching me.

01:02:09Guest:Not only the hundred members of the crew, but it's an ensemble thing.

01:02:13Guest:Yeah.

01:02:14Guest:It's an ensemble thing.

01:02:14Guest:So everyone's there.

01:02:15Guest:And am I too serious?

01:02:17Guest:They hire too serious.

01:02:18Guest:I heard they were going for Kevin Costner.

01:02:21Guest:Oh, you heard that.

01:02:22Guest:Which then I heard wasn't true.

01:02:24Guest:And then it doesn't matter.

01:02:25Guest:The thing is, is I prepped so hard for it.

01:02:29Guest:It was like I was doing my first role.

01:02:31Guest:And I was sitting in the hotel and they were calling me from downstairs at two in the morning going, sir, can you please keep it down?

01:02:38Guest:People are trying to sleep.

01:02:40Guest:And I was fucking obsessing.

01:02:42Guest:And it was good.

01:02:45Guest:I heard it was okay.

01:02:46Guest:I heard it was okay.

01:02:48Marc:See, that's the fucked up thing is that like, you know, in the time.

01:02:51Guest:I'm not saying it was good, but I'm saying I heard it was good.

01:02:53Marc:But in the tirade that I had with my manager.

01:02:55Marc:Yeah.

01:02:56Marc:And I'm like, you know, it's like, how come no one's telling me I did a good job?

01:03:01Guest:Totally.

01:03:02Guest:The adolescent comes out and you're like, okay.

01:03:05Marc:And in that moment, I didn't give a fuck.

01:03:08Marc:Yeah.

01:03:08Marc:If he went and told the director, it's like, you just got a little smoke up his ass.

01:03:11Marc:There you go.

01:03:11Guest:Because it works.

01:03:12Guest:It works.

01:03:14Guest:I know my whole team just told you to say this to me.

01:03:18Guest:But thank you.

01:03:18Guest:Mark, you're doing such a good job.

01:03:20Guest:Really?

01:03:20Guest:Okay.

01:03:21Guest:Really?

01:03:21Guest:Yeah.

01:03:22Guest:Am I for real?

01:03:24Guest:Thank you, man.

01:03:24Marc:I don't even care.

01:03:25Marc:Can I give you a hug?

01:03:27Marc:The director pointed out something to me.

01:03:28Marc:It's so pathetic.

01:03:29Marc:He pointed out something to me that I do, but I don't, because I'm so, like, I'm in it.

01:03:33Marc:He said he's never experienced somebody, like, defensively agreeing with him.

01:03:39Yeah.

01:03:42Marc:Like, he'll come over to me and go, like, he'll come up to me and he'll be like, OK, so I think you can bring it back.

01:03:49Marc:I'm like, all right.

01:03:50Guest:All right.

01:03:50Guest:Got it.

01:03:52Guest:No, that's so funny, man.

01:03:54Guest:I do the same thing, too, because when directors come up to me and good directors know this.

01:03:58Guest:Yeah.

01:03:59Guest:Bad directors will keep fucking talking because they feel like they need to have an impact on what you're doing.

01:04:04Guest:Yeah.

01:04:04Guest:Great directors will leave you alone when they know that they're getting, or they'll come up and do a little tweak.

01:04:09Guest:The great thing about Rian Johnson is he's a small guy.

01:04:12Guest:He's a fairly small guy.

01:04:14Guest:Super smart, super good guy.

01:04:15Guest:I've wanted to please him.

01:04:17Guest:He had such command over his set and he just would give me a look like, you're not being good enough.

01:04:24Guest:And I'd be like, fuck, I'll be better.

01:04:27Guest:I promise you, daddy, I will be better.

01:04:31Guest:And talk about bass.

01:04:32Guest:Yeah.

01:04:33Guest:And it was just between he and I. Yeah, yeah.

01:04:35Guest:You knew.

01:04:35Guest:He didn't make a show out of it or any of it.

01:04:37Guest:You knew.

01:04:37Guest:And it was great.

01:04:38Guest:But I want to live in that, man.

01:04:40Guest:Yeah.

01:04:41Guest:I want to live in that.

01:04:41Guest:And as terrifying as it is, you know, it's interesting that when you see this thing, depending on how it's cut together, you see it.

01:04:48Guest:And if you see somebody react to it, which is what you want.

01:04:52Guest:Right.

01:04:53Guest:You want somebody to not say necessarily, you know, when No Country comes out to go, God, I saw No Country.

01:04:59Guest:You were brilliant.

01:05:00Guest:Yeah.

01:05:00Guest:They go, wow.

01:05:01Guest:what a fucking movie yeah yeah yeah yeah wow yeah and i go wow i'm a part of something amazing and i didn't fuck it up yeah what a movie they should have gotten ethan hall and you go well why what did i do that's so you know it's so funny the whole thing about when you get a role well you're at a different level but like i get something like who turned it down

01:05:24Guest:Oh, dude, I'd get that all the time.

01:05:27Guest:Matt Damon was supposed to do milk.

01:05:29Guest:He couldn't do milk because of a scheduling conflict, so I ended up doing that.

01:05:33Guest:That was the best.

01:05:34Marc:You were so good in that.

01:05:35Marc:So creepy when you're just standing in that lobby of that courthouse or whatever it was.

01:05:39Marc:Hi.

01:05:39Marc:Yeah, I do.

01:05:41Marc:But so, like, when you lay out this stuff, well, the book is different.

01:05:44Marc:I like how you just did Dan White.

01:05:45Marc:Hi.

01:05:46Guest:It's so pathetic.

01:05:50Marc:Oh my God.

01:05:51Marc:But so, so you laid out in this book.

01:05:53Marc:So this feels like that, right?

01:05:55Guest:I mean, this is all.

01:05:56Guest:Let me see the book really quick.

01:05:57Guest:Yeah.

01:05:57Guest:Just cause we're just riffing.

01:05:59Marc:Yeah.

01:06:00Guest:Sorry.

01:06:01Guest:Um,

01:06:03Guest:Why do we have to leave?

01:06:04Guest:I can't see because of the hair on my face.

01:06:06Guest:Mom says she likes it long.

01:06:08Guest:There's a wolf walking across the road.

01:06:10Guest:It was in the road under that street lamp.

01:06:12Guest:It had long legs and a long snout.

01:06:14Guest:It just looked at us and kept walking.

01:06:16Guest:Look, look at the tree.

01:06:17Guest:Someone's hair is hanging from that tree at the end of every branch.

01:06:21Guest:It looks like rough hair, thick spiderwebs, a blanket torn by shreds by someone angry.

01:06:25Guest:I feel someone's eyes on me, someone watching us.

01:06:28Guest:Don't slow down.

01:06:29Guest:Why are you slowing down?

01:06:30Guest:I smell gasoline.

01:06:31Guest:I smell oil.

01:06:32Guest:I smell my mother's face, all that makeup she puts on in the morning.

01:06:36Guest:It's a powdery smell, stale.

01:06:37Guest:It smells old, and I see her hands, the skin draped over her thin bone.

01:06:41Guest:wrapped around the steering wheel like a dark wet paper towel with long white nails at the end.

01:06:46Guest:A French manicure, she calls it.

01:06:48Guest:I see the smoke of her cigarette crawling across the lining of the roof of our car.

01:06:52Guest:It slowly churns along above me.

01:06:54Guest:Maybe the car will light on fire.

01:06:55Guest:Maybe we'll burn up and we'll end up in a creek somewhere with that tree hair all over us, hidden forever.

01:07:01Guest:Why isn't anybody talking?

01:07:03Guest:My brother's asleep next to me in the back, all curled up like after an accident.

01:07:07Guest:He looks like something you'd see in a newspaper.

01:07:09Guest:He never looks well.

01:07:11Guest:He's always struggling in some way.

01:07:13Guest:I stare at him for a moment, watch his lips curl into his mouth when he inhales, then flap forward as he lets it out.

01:07:20Guest:His is a labored life.

01:07:21Guest:I want to save him.

01:07:22Guest:I want to put him on the back of my bicycle and ride down the street away from here.

01:07:26Marc:Beautiful.

01:07:27Marc:Was that written as a poem?

01:07:28Marc:Was it written like a poem?

01:07:29Marc:No.

01:07:29Marc:That's so great about how you write because it feels like a poem.

01:07:32Marc:Like I walked into the times where I was like in college, you know, in the poetry reading, you know, kind of like, oh.

01:07:38Guest:I know, right?

01:07:39Guest:You know, like, okay.

01:07:41Guest:Yeah.

01:07:41Guest:By the way, I went, do you remember there's a, where did you grow up?

01:07:45Guest:Albuquerque.

01:07:46Guest:Albuquerque.

01:07:46Guest:Oh, fuck.

01:07:47Guest:My son's in Albuquerque.

01:07:48Guest:Is he?

01:07:48Guest:What's he doing?

01:07:48Guest:Yeah, he's managing a multibar over there.

01:07:52Guest:A multibar?

01:07:52Guest:Yeah, it's called Revel.

01:07:54Guest:Really?

01:07:55Guest:Yeah, Revel.

01:07:55Guest:And he manages, he lives there full time.

01:07:57Guest:He's with his girl.

01:07:58Guest:I love Albuquerque.

01:07:59Guest:I do, too.

01:08:00Guest:Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Mexico, all of it.

01:08:02Guest:What were you going to say?

01:08:03Guest:What was I going to say?

01:08:04Marc:I said like a poetry reading.

01:08:06Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:08:06Guest:No, Cafe Lalo back in the 90s.

01:08:08Guest:And I was writing and Anthony Zerbe was a really close friend of mine.

01:08:11Guest:And he and Roscoe Lee Brown used to do this poetry reading.

01:08:14Guest:And I can't think of anything worse and more boring than poetry readings, especially actors doing poetry readings.

01:08:20Guest:poetry yeah and there was a time in the 90s where actors were like publishing we're doing it yeah we're doing it and they go to cafe lalo and i went to somebody said you should go to cafe lalo you should meet us there and i brought a bunch of poems and people would get up like stephen baldwin he'd be like my balls and everybody would go yeah yeah you go like this and it's like oh bukowski and all this and then i got up and i read poems and nobody said anything

01:08:43Guest:There was no reaction.

01:08:44Guest:Because I took it very seriously.

01:08:46Marc:It meant something to me.

01:08:47Marc:Well, that's the fucking, that's, see, you have that in you.

01:08:50Marc:So that's the real risk is that you can't help but be vulnerable.

01:08:54Marc:Exactly.

01:08:54Marc:And then that means like, if you have a certain ilk, you can't help but walk away from that going like, why'd I do that?

01:08:59Marc:Why'd I do that?

01:09:01Guest:Half of my life has been like, why'd I do that?

01:09:03Guest:And then I go right back and do it again.

01:09:05Guest:I know.

01:09:05Guest:So what I was saying before is you doing that movie, wait till you get another one.

01:09:10Hmm.

01:09:10Guest:And then another one because you put yourself out there and I respect anybody.

01:09:14Guest:Whether you're old or not and zinned out or not and sweating and ready to take a shit, you put yourself out there and I respect you for it.

01:09:22Marc:So how much did you like to, you know, it feels like a good place to end, but I want to know, like, did you journal?

01:09:30Guest:Yeah.

01:09:30Guest:90, 90, I think it was 88 recently.

01:09:33Guest:It's like 91 full journals.

01:09:36Yeah.

01:09:36Guest:So, because a lot of this is very immediate and it didn't feel like you were just recall.

01:09:40Guest:No, there's stuff that probably half the book is, no, more than that.

01:09:43Guest:Everything is rewritten.

01:09:44Guest:Right.

01:09:45Guest:No, I know.

01:09:45Guest:I didn't take everything from a journal.

01:09:47Guest:So I would look at a journal writing.

01:09:48Guest:But it got you back there.

01:09:49Guest:And it would get me back there.

01:09:51Guest:Yeah.

01:09:51Guest:It would spark a memory and then I would riff on the memory.

01:09:53Guest:So everything's written.

01:09:55Guest:but I would say at least half the stories are just kind of stories that came to me and I said, or like the Sam Shepard story.

01:10:04Guest:I don't like the way this sounds.

01:10:05Guest:It sounds like I'm name dropping.

01:10:07Guest:So I'm gonna call myself out.

01:10:09Guest:I'm gonna call myself out on the name dropping and what would be the satire version of a name dropper.

01:10:14Guest:And this guy who's trying to impress and this and it's all about famous or infamous and this guy that I've known and this guy that I've known and nothing's working.

01:10:22Guest:And it finally goes back to like what you and I were talking about.

01:10:25Guest:of the memories that actually mattered, which is the girl that I spent four hours with in Copenhagen train station and truly had some type of love affair that I can't let go 50, 45 years later.

01:10:37Marc:Yeah, thank God you didn't spend another hour.

01:10:39Marc:Thank God.

01:10:42Marc:Another hour would have fucked up for 50 years.

01:10:45Guest:We would have had 10 kids.

01:10:47Guest:But seriously, man, you go back to the... And it's fun playing with story and narrative like that.

01:10:53Marc:Why'd you choose to go back and forth?

01:10:55Marc:It was interesting, the back and forth between Goonies and No Country.

01:10:59Guest:Because to me, that's kind of... It exploits the title of the book.

01:11:05Guest:What's the title of the book?

01:11:06Guest:There's a double entendre in the title of the book.

01:11:08Guest:You're either fixing something or you're getting run over.

01:11:10Mm-hmm.

01:11:10Guest:It's a choice.

01:11:11Marc:But also there's the guy.

01:11:12Marc:Well, I mean, it appears in the story about your mom drinking that guy under a truck.

01:11:16Guest:Yeah.

01:11:16Guest:Very good.

01:11:17Guest:Yeah.

01:11:17Guest:There's the guy under the truck, which is probably where it came from.

01:11:19Guest:Yeah.

01:11:20Guest:But that's how I see the story.

01:11:21Guest:So to me, it's like, look, you know, where are you destroying your life and where are you where you're actually becoming more malleable and working with the chaos of the circus and not against it?

01:11:30Marc:Yeah.

01:11:31Marc:It's when you are able to ask that question.

01:11:33Marc:Yeah.

01:11:33Marc:If you can't ask that question.

01:11:35Marc:You're fucked.

01:11:36Yeah.

01:11:36Guest:You're fucked.

01:11:37Guest:And don't write any books.

01:11:39Marc:Or go hire your other person.

01:11:42Marc:My brother's into the ice baths now, too.

01:11:45Marc:Is he?

01:11:45Marc:Is it really?

01:11:47Guest:Is it great?

01:11:47Guest:You know what?

01:11:48Guest:I got away from it because we moved.

01:11:49Guest:We actually moved up north.

01:11:51Guest:We moved out of L.A.

01:11:52Guest:We still have our Venice place that we rent.

01:11:54Guest:We moved out of L.A.

01:11:55Guest:We're always talking about moving.

01:11:57Guest:Where do we want to end up?

01:11:58Guest:Should we go back east?

01:11:58Guest:Should we go to Europe?

01:12:00Guest:Now we've ended up in this place that I'd never felt as settled as I do right now.

01:12:04Guest:And is inspired.

01:12:05Marc:I think I've seen pictures of it on Instagram, right?

01:12:08Guest:It's pretty.

01:12:08Guest:It's super fucking beautiful.

01:12:10Guest:Yeah.

01:12:10Guest:It's super beautiful and still scrappy.

01:12:13Guest:I thought you had an ice bath up there.

01:12:14Guest:So, no.

01:12:15Guest:So I had the ice bath.

01:12:18Guest:And I've done ice baths for 20 years.

01:12:19Guest:Like, yeah, going over and being with Laird and doing that.

01:12:22Guest:It's more of an exploited ice bath thing so people know about it more.

01:12:25Guest:But I've been doing it forever.

01:12:26Guest:And then I just so I don't have an ice bath right now, but the shower I have is so cold and I got away from it.

01:12:35Guest:So two weeks ago, I started doing it again.

01:12:38Guest:And I'm telling you absolutely unequivocally that that is the reason why my something has lifted.

01:12:46Guest:Because I've been doing it every single morning for at least three or four minutes, freezing cold.

01:12:53Guest:And I did it this morning.

01:12:54Guest:I fucking felt great.

01:12:55Guest:So I do think, I think it has, I know guys with depression that I've said, go do this.

01:13:00Guest:And they've said, I actually feel a difference.

01:13:02Marc:Yeah, my brother's like that too.

01:13:04Guest:You got to do it.

01:13:05Guest:Yeah.

01:13:05Guest:You did it on SNL.

01:13:06Guest:I did it on SNL.

01:13:08Guest:And Lauren, by the way, was like, you can't do it.

01:13:09Guest:It's not funny.

01:13:10Guest:I said, I'm not trying to be funny.

01:13:11Guest:And you're trying to help people.

01:13:12Guest:No, it's not even that I'm trying to help people.

01:13:14Guest:It's just I'm expressing myself in the way that I know me to be.

01:13:18Guest:And that's what people respond to.

01:13:20Guest:Yeah.

01:13:20Guest:Oh, Brolin's a little fucking crazy.

01:13:22Guest:He just kind of does what he wants.

01:13:23Guest:Let's just follow it.

01:13:24Guest:And we can make fun of him.

01:13:25Guest:Or we can say, good for you for doing what you want.

01:13:28Guest:And then finally, he said, OK.

01:13:29Guest:And he came up to me afterwards.

01:13:30Guest:He goes, it worked.

01:13:32Guest:It worked.

01:13:32Guest:I go, thank you.

01:13:33Guest:Thank you for that.

01:13:34Guest:That's going back to like the director.

01:13:36Guest:It goes, you're wonderful.

01:13:37Marc:I think you're great.

01:13:38Marc:But were you spinning after it?

01:13:39Marc:Were you wondering whether?

01:13:40Guest:No, I wasn't.

01:13:41Guest:The poetry thing I was.

01:13:43Guest:The poetry thing that I did because we were kind of trying to exploit the thing that I did with Greg Frazier, the great DP.

01:13:50Guest:He and I did a book called Exposures, my writing and his photographs.

01:13:54Guest:Yeah.

01:13:54Guest:And it became a bestseller.

01:13:55Guest:It did really well.

01:13:56Guest:And so I was riffing off something that they said, like, you know, writing about Timothee Chalamet in a way that sounds super creepy.

01:14:04Guest:Yeah.

01:14:04Guest:So I'm like, OK, let's throw it in everybody's face.

01:14:06Marc:Yeah.

01:14:07Guest:Why not?

01:14:08Marc:It is weird, though, that when you have that, because I think it comes that vulnerability, that persistence to take those kind of chances of not being able to do it any other way and putting yourself out there.

01:14:18Marc:Yeah.

01:14:18Marc:I always try to analyze it.

01:14:21Marc:Like, you know, what am I really looking for from this audience?

01:14:23Marc:You know, am I is it really my form of the expression or am I there's some part of me where I think like I'm defying you to love me as me.

01:14:35Guest:Yeah, I think that's probably what it is.

01:14:37Guest:I think that's what it is.

01:14:38Guest:But there's two.

01:14:39Guest:I hate the idea of hiding.

01:14:42Guest:I hate the idea of I want you to perceive me one way, but I'm really something else.

01:14:48Marc:Yeah.

01:14:49Marc:I think sometimes you do it naturally just as a defense mechanism.

01:14:52Marc:And then all of a sudden you're stuck with this like, well, I think I'm that guy.

01:14:54Marc:Totally.

01:14:55Marc:Yeah.

01:14:55Guest:And then how am I going to live up to that or how am I going to live down to that?

01:14:58Marc:What about the guy I'm hiding?

01:15:00Guest:I remember when I was drinking, there was a guy.

01:15:03Guest:I remember his name, but I won't say.

01:15:04Guest:There was a guy, and then he said, hey, will you go to this?

01:15:06Guest:My friend's in town.

01:15:08Guest:Will you meet me at this bar?

01:15:09Guest:And I had gone through something maybe a couple of days before, so I said, okay, I'm not going to drink for a few days.

01:15:14Guest:And I got there, and he says, hey, what can I get you?

01:15:17Guest:And I said, no, I'm not.

01:15:19Guest:Water.

01:15:19Guest:I'm just not going to drink.

01:15:21Guest:And he goes, what do you mean?

01:15:23Guest:And I go, what do you mean, what do I mean?

01:15:25Guest:And he goes, but my friend's here.

01:15:27Guest:I told her about you.

01:15:29Guest:And I was like, oh, I'm your fucking clown.

01:15:32Guest:I'm your fucking, I'm your drunk clown.

01:15:35Guest:Wait till you see Brolin lit up.

01:15:38Guest:It's crazy.

01:15:39Guest:We're probably going to jail tonight, but I know when to run away.

01:15:44Guest:But he'll go.

01:15:45Guest:And I go, and that's that thing.

01:15:46Guest:It's like, I don't want to pretend to be this thing.

01:15:49Guest:I don't want to be, I don't want to be your puppet master.

01:15:52Guest:Yeah.

01:15:52Guest:Let's just resort.

01:15:53Guest:Let's let the old men resort back to who they are and actually what moves them.

01:15:59Guest:And we'll exploit that and play with that a little bit.

01:16:01Guest:Right.

01:16:01Guest:Because that's what we do.

01:16:02Guest:We express ourselves.

01:16:03Guest:You do a podcast, you act, I write, you write.

01:16:06Guest:I mean, it's what we find ways, paint, whatever.

01:16:08Guest:Yeah.

01:16:09Guest:Yeah.

01:16:09Guest:It's just in us.

01:16:10Marc:It's the nature of us.

01:16:11Marc:And the thing you were saying earlier, too, about like whatever, I don't remember it was golf or whatever, is that you have this moment where you get to a certain age, like, you know, and there are people that just like want to, you know, go to work and then come home and eat and watch a thing.

01:16:26Marc:And it's like, I've never lived that.

01:16:29Guest:I don't even know what it is.

01:16:30Marc:I have no idea what it is.

01:16:32Marc:No idea.

01:16:33Marc:I know.

01:16:33Marc:And that's not like some people think, well, that's because you're entitled.

01:16:36Marc:It's like, no, I have no choice.

01:16:38Marc:I never knew what that was.

01:16:39Marc:Yeah, and it's just, it's not like, you know, like, well, you know, you didn't have to do this.

01:16:43Marc:No, it's not.

01:16:44Marc:I never, there was no other way.

01:16:47Guest:But I also experienced, you know, something that Cummings said in this thing about security.

01:16:52Guest:He was like, security is a fallacy.

01:16:53Guest:It doesn't exist.

01:16:55Guest:What you think if you go, hey, I got this thing and I go here and then I go to work and then I go to the coffee shop and I make that barista laugh and then I go get my sandwich and then I go home and it's all safe.

01:17:05Guest:Yeah.

01:17:05Guest:And then shit happens, which is inevitable.

01:17:07Guest:And they go, I don't know what happened.

01:17:09Guest:I was just doing my thing, man.

01:17:10Guest:Yeah.

01:17:11Guest:So it's like shit always happens.

01:17:12Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:17:13Guest:And my version of it is just stay in the shit.

01:17:18Guest:Just have a relationship with the shit.

01:17:20Marc:Stay in the shit.

01:17:21Marc:Stay in the shit.

01:17:22Marc:That's a good way to end.

01:17:23Guest:Great talking to you again, man.

01:17:25Guest:Great seeing you, man.

01:17:31Marc:There you go.

01:17:32Marc:That book from under the truck, Josh's memoir, is out November 19th.

01:17:37Marc:Hang out for a minute, folks.

01:17:41Marc:On the latest full Marin bonus episode, I talked about the experience of being a lead in a movie and how everything felt just days after we wrapped.

01:17:48Marc:I don't know.

01:17:48Marc:A lot of things came together in my sort of moving towards this thing.

01:17:54Marc:And I think a lot of them had to do with...

01:17:57Marc:A lot of preparation came from many guests giving me acting tips and acting lessons.

01:18:07Guest:It's really wild.

01:18:07Guest:That really actually did wind up paying off.

01:18:10Guest:Like all the times you talk to people and you've been like, I'm just going to get acting advice.

01:18:13Guest:And I think I noticed it from things you say about your performance in this thing.

01:18:18Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:18:18Guest:You pick that up talking to people.

01:18:20Guest:Yeah.

01:18:20Marc:A lot of it.

01:18:21Marc:To get bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Marin.

01:18:24Marc:Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+.

01:18:30Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.

01:18:36Marc:So I know I'm repeating riffs, but now I can loop them and play with myself.

01:18:40Marc:Yes, I said that.

01:18:42Marc:This is me playing with myself.

01:18:44Marc:.

01:18:52guitar solo

01:19:27guitar solo

01:20:52guitar solo

01:21:21guitar solo

01:22:00Marc:Boomer lives.

01:22:06Marc:Monkey and LaFonda.

01:22:07Marc:Cat angels everywhere.