Episode 1589 - Robby Hoffman
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks i know what's happening i don't have to ask you what's happening i didn't want to be doing this today i didn't want to be doing anything today
Marc:I didn't want to wake up today, but I'm not sure I slept that well.
Marc:Just panic.
Marc:Panic and terror.
Marc:That's the vibe.
Marc:That's the feeling.
Marc:That's the reality.
Marc:I didn't get to watch much of what unfolded last night because I was on set.
Marc:I got home and I chose not to watch it because I saw where it was going.
Marc:And I woke up and I looked, not unlike a lot of people, and it's just fucking devastating.
Marc:It's annihilating.
Marc:It's all of the bad things.
Marc:When I heard what happened, when I saw what was coming...
Marc:My first instinct is to really like I just want out.
Marc:I don't want to talk to anybody.
Marc:I don't want to talk to friends.
Marc:I don't want to talk to anybody.
Marc:It just it felt personal.
Marc:And I imagine that it is personal, but it's really much bigger than that, obviously.
Marc:But the first hit you take is like, how could this have happened?
Marc:But I'm not surprised by that.
Marc:But I am horrified that it did happen.
Marc:There was a swiver of hope there for a while that it wouldn't.
Marc:But it happened in a bigger way than we could ever imagine.
Marc:And this is the reality that we're going to be entering.
Marc:We're in the pre-horror reality now, but I'm just terrified because with a number of right-wing people, senators, now president, again, who knows what's going to happen with the House.
Marc:It's just, they're going to do it all.
Marc:They're going to do, there is a full spectrum of horrible things that are possible.
Marc:And because of
Marc:this president, we don't know the extent of it.
Marc:Is he going to go the whole way?
Marc:Is he going to honor all the rhetoric that he's been spewing?
Marc:Is he going to deport millions of people?
Marc:Is he going to make it impossible for women to get the health care that they need?
Marc:Is he going to make it impossible for people to live the way they want to live in a free way with their own choices?
Marc:Is he going to break the entire federal government?
Marc:I imagine that's all possible.
Marc:It's all on the menu.
Marc:So,
Marc:I chose to continue talking.
Marc:I'm going to continue talking.
Marc:It's my job and it's what I do.
Marc:And I know people listen to me for whatever reason.
Marc:But I think the most profound thing that happened yesterday is that I really did not want to do anything.
Marc:Obviously, I was paralyzed, and your brain just starts running.
Marc:You just enter that cortisol-driven trauma response to four years of this fuck the first time, where every day was a fucking new nightmare.
Marc:Every fucking moment, you were worried about something being dismantled, something being unsafe, something being unfair, something directly affecting your life, your loved ones, that was going to make their life unbearable.
Marc:All that happened for four years every day, every day of it.
Marc:And then we got this reprieve.
Marc:Whatever you think of that, it was a reprieve.
Marc:And now we're reentering this fucking shit show.
Marc:But we do have...
Marc:the muscle of what it was like.
Marc:We assume it's going to be worse now.
Marc:I mean, there's part of me that just wants to, you know, scream and fucking, you know, weep.
Marc:But there's another part of me that's sort of like, look, fuck that.
Marc:Fuck that.
Marc:We're half the country.
Marc:Half the country voted against this guy.
Marc:So we're not alone.
Marc:There's a lot of us and we are in it together.
Marc:At least the people that have the beliefs that you have.
Marc:a belief in democracy, a belief in tolerance, a belief in, you know, equal opportunity and fairness, tolerant and proactive treatment of women, minorities, LGBTQ people.
Marc:I mean, it's just like, fuck, there are a lot of us.
Marc:And not unlike the first time, I guess I'll do what I can to talk to you.
Marc:In some way that, I don't know.
Marc:It's just fucking awful.
Marc:But oddly, I've been rationalizing it in an odd way.
Marc:It's that most of the countries on this planet are fucking authoritarian.
Marc:And somehow you got to figure out, we're going to have to figure out how to live in it.
Marc:We don't know what it is yet.
Marc:But we know it's not going to be good.
Marc:I don't know what America is going to look like.
Marc:Culturally, it was already trending this way.
Marc:In terms of what I believe and how I feel and what I've talked about on this show, I've been this way for decades.
Marc:But in this moment, I am in the moment.
Marc:And your life is still your life.
Marc:And it will remain your life.
Marc:You know, I woke up this morning and I had to go to work.
Marc:I had to be in my car at 5.45 and on set by 6.30, 7 o'clock.
Marc:And an amazing thing happened.
Marc:The same thing that happened to me and to you and to all of us happened to everybody.
Marc:And I got on set and there were a lot of like-minded people.
Marc:I would say almost all of them.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't really know what people believe politically.
Marc:A lot of people don't flout it or wear the hat or double down on saying horrible things.
Marc:A lot of people just voted whatever the fuck their heart told them.
Marc:Whatever I think of that, that's my business.
Marc:But the point being, I was among people.
Marc:doing a job and showing up and just being professional, but also just checking in, checking in with each other, got a few laughs, got some tension release, you know, in terms of like, you know, making a joke, feeling the waters out and, and just engaging in the work.
Marc:But being around other people was a fucking, you know, it's just a godsend.
Marc:It's, it's invaluable.
Yeah.
Marc:And I think if you're isolated or you're despairing, well, I get it.
Marc:But the bottom line is, and I've said this before, culturally and politically, we've been annihilated.
Marc:And that has an effect.
Marc:It's not just trauma, but it's a lot of trauma, but it's also not understanding why people believe the way they believe.
Marc:It's not a matter of like, why doesn't everyone believe like me?
Marc:But why can people believe in a movement that
Marc:That is so awful to people and it's so driven by hurting others and payback and just not giving a fuck.
Marc:I don't want to break all that down, but all that is annihilating.
Marc:And I guess if I can say anything that may be helpful is that if you're of a certain sensitivity or you are brought up a certain way or you're fragile, sometimes the only way to react to this type of trauma and this type of all-consuming terror is to take yourself out of it one way or another and
Marc:And I mean that full spectrum of that.
Marc:If you're not used to using drugs or you don't use drugs anymore, you might want to get fucked up.
Marc:You might want to get fucked up for the rest of it.
Marc:If you're already on the edge of self-harm, you might want to take yourself out.
Marc:But you don't have to give them that.
Marc:You don't have to give them that.
Marc:these fuckers that are going to take away an America of tolerance and fairness, equanimity.
Marc:You don't have to give them that.
Marc:You don't have to give them you.
Marc:You can keep you.
Marc:And I think people underestimate the amount of, if you are of a certain type of person, it can shatter your entire being because your brain will tell you you don't know how to exist in this world.
Marc:But we can't give them that.
Marc:You know, don't hurt yourself.
Marc:Get around other people.
Marc:Get around like-minded people.
Marc:I guess, you know, there is work ahead.
Marc:But, you know, for right now, in this interim before, you know, the real shit show commences.
Marc:kind of try to pull out a little bit and understand there's plenty to be afraid of and there's plenty of unknowns and we're not handing into anything that's good and we're going to have to live on fucking scraps of good news if they even come.
Marc:I don't really know the horror that's ahead.
Marc:But I do know that you owe it to yourself not to surrender or harm yourself.
Marc:So look, I'm going to do a regular show here.
Marc:Okay, I'm going to do a regular show here.
Marc:I'm going to talk to a comedian, Robbie Hoffman.
Marc:It's a great conversation.
Marc:She's an interesting person.
Marc:She's funny.
Marc:She comes from a very interesting background.
Marc:She's a writer, comedian.
Marc:And I'd seen her around and I didn't know what to make of her.
Marc:And then I watched her comedy.
Marc:I was like, oh my God, this person's a unique person.
Marc:I'm going to talk to her because that's what I do here.
Marc:And I think that that's what we have to do.
Marc:Is that, you know, this is what this show is about.
Marc:It's what I've been doing.
Marc:And it's just, you know, it's just the entire show.
Marc:I mean, it's going to be essential for those of us who still listen.
Marc:Is that it's predicated on two people who on the surface have lots of differences, but also can connect over their similarities.
Marc:You know, just to have a talk, get to know each other.
Marc:I mean, that's about the extent of the optimism I'm capable of right now, that people can still connect with each other and stay in touch with humanity.
Marc:I mean, we got to.
Marc:I mean, that's what happened on the set this morning.
Marc:Everybody was in the same boat.
Marc:Everyone was shattered, in shock, fresh wound.
Marc:But, you know, we had some laughs.
Marc:We had some food.
Marc:We made a movie, making a movie.
Marc:Everyone did their job.
Marc:Everyone felt safe in the moment and connected.
Marc:That's going to be important.
Marc:Because the instinct is they're going to want us to shut up.
Marc:They're going to want us to just stop yelling, stop talking, stop sharing beliefs or opinions.
Marc:Just keep your head down.
Marc:Sadly, that's easier to do with a phone.
Marc:But we can't live there.
Marc:So hopefully we'll be able to navigate this.
Marc:Let's try to stay here.
Marc:It's going to be hard.
Marc:But again, there's a lot of us still.
Marc:Look, if I was too somber or too on the level or just know that I'm acting out of complete fucking fear and I'm just dealing.
Marc:And look, I'm angry.
Marc:I didn't sit there.
Marc:I wasn't sitting here at the top of this.
Marc:Just like, fuck this.
Marc:Fuck it all.
Marc:Fuck it all.
Marc:These fucks.
Marc:I mean, are you fucking kidding me?
Marc:These fucks that voted for him, all this, they're going to destroy the fucking government.
Marc:It's over.
Marc:Democracy is fucking over.
Marc:And now we got to deal with whatever fucking horrendous thing that this chaotic fucking shit clown dumps on us and his minions and his armies and who the fuck knows.
Marc:But fuck it all.
Marc:If you didn't get enough of that, I mean, it's in me.
Marc:And it's, I don't know.
Marc:I've never really lived in an authoritarian country.
Marc:And, you know, it's an experience we all get to have now.
Marc:Not one of the good ones.
Marc:Anyway, look, I don't know what to tell you.
Marc:I'm barely keeping it together.
Marc:And I've got to go shoot a scene.
Marc:of me dying of cancer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So look, Robbie Hoffman is an interesting character.
Marc:Her life is very interesting, very Jewish, very lesbian, very unique.
Marc:You can find her tour dates on her social media pages or at RobbieHoffman.com.
Marc:And this is me talking to Robbie Hoffman, a very unique character, this person, Robbie Hoffman.
Marc:What's our vibe?
Guest:I have no chill is the issue and you're the most chill.
Marc:I'm not chill at all.
Marc:I immediately mesh with whatever's coming at me.
Marc:No one has ever called me chill.
Guest:Well, here's why you're chill.
Guest:You're not chill stage persona, but you've been at this and famous for so long that you're used to people coming at you.
Guest:I realized just the other day, kind of at the store, actually, not to get too industry already, but I come in, I'm not able to.
Guest:I brought people the wrong way because I'm not able to relax.
Guest:I have like still a kid like curiosity.
Guest:I'm still so excited.
Guest:This is a big deal for me.
Guest:And my friend Jamie Loftus, she did a set up in the belly room and she spoke about how her father, she just recently lost her father.
Guest:Very funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But she said that her father told her,
Guest:to just be cool about everything that let life happen to you just whatever happens you don't let on yeah you know that kind of thing never let it on let life happen to you and i realized it made me sad because i grew up without a father maybe i would have learned this you know because now i come in hot i'm always like if i'm excited like the first time i was excited to see you yeah
Guest:I told you, I said, 10 years ago, you talked to me at Just for Laughs.
Guest:I was trying to get the picture up, but I have it now.
Guest:But my phone wasn't where it was like just disastrous.
Guest:Only people I respect, I'm disastrous in front of.
Guest:It's kind of like how guys talk about how they approach girls.
Guest:It's horrible for them.
Guest:They're totally normal with their friends.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All that stuff.
Guest:As soon as they have to talk to her, I'm like this with a few select with you, Tim Dillon, as many times as I see him been to his house.
Guest:I'm the same way just because I find him so funny.
Guest:It's just it's disastrous.
Guest:I was trying to get this picture of you and it rubs you.
Guest:It comes in too hot.
Marc:Yeah, I don't think that I don't.
Marc:I have dealt with a lot of people coming in hot and I don't think that, you know, having a father, not having a father, your father might have taught you a different lesson.
Marc:You know, my father was a kind of like a bulldozing kind of bipolar asshole.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I didn't learn anything.
Marc:I just have a natural at the core.
Marc:I'll adapt to what's coming at me and then I'll find a medium.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you're a professional.
Marc:I don't know if I'm it's just the way I am.
Marc:I don't like and I didn't you know, I it's weird because I would see you around and you met me 10 years ago.
Guest:Yeah, I have a picture.
Guest:You want to see the picture finally?
Guest:Because this is full circle for me.
Guest:I'm autistic beyond.
Guest:I got to close the link.
Marc:Are you autistic?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Something's, I mean, something's off.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:You haven't, you've never been diagnosed?
Guest:Look at this.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:You're like a different person.
Guest:You're like a different person.
Marc:Am I?
Marc:I think I look.
Guest:You got a mustache and I have a beard.
Marc:Well, no, this is for a role.
Guest:I got dykier over time.
Guest:There's no question.
Marc:Well, I mean dykier, but I, but you know, you've sort of, this is the weird thing.
Marc:It's like, but you locked in on a look, you made a decision.
Marc:This is not like some standard dykey look.
Guest:It's weird because it happened.
Guest:I didn't lock in.
Guest:I don't even know when this started happening, but I used to have a teacher in high school.
Guest:We had this teacher.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hebrew teacher.
Guest:Crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she do all the years in the hallways.
Guest:You could see like all the class photos, all the graduating classes, the teachers included.
Guest:She always had this bouffant.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, Ma, look at this lady.
Guest:It's like 70s here.
Guest:She's got the bouffant.
Guest:We're in the 2000s.
Guest:She's got the bouffant.
Guest:I became somebody who had the same hairstyle forever, but I... There's a consistency to it.
Marc:It's not a business decision.
Marc:You decided at some point.
Guest:It just happened, and then it was easy.
Marc:Because when I used to see you around the store, I didn't know you, and I had to watch your comedy recently because people like you.
Marc:They think you're funny, but I would see you walk around.
Marc:I'm like, is she doing a bit?
Guest:No, I, you know what?
Guest:It was the weirdest thing.
Guest:It's like, this is where it landed.
Guest:There's not so many places to go as a lesbian.
Guest:Like either I shave my head, which I think about every single year.
Guest:Shave it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do it.
Guest:Do I buzz it?
Guest:Why?
Guest:But then I think, I don't know if I have the right head shape for that.
Guest:You have to have a good head.
Marc:I don't know what my head looks like.
Marc:The picture you're doing this sort of half spiky thing.
Guest:No, the picture I had like more like, you know, the front was, I don't know.
Guest:It's just, it's only recently in time that people have been gave a shit what queer people look like.
Guest:Don't even look at me.
Guest:Like, I don't know what I'm doing.
Guest:I'm trying to, you know, I'm wearing men's clothes that are small.
Guest:I shop at, you know, like I'm trying.
Guest:You shop where?
Guest:Uniqlo, you know.
Guest:Uniqlo?
Guest:If you're a dyke and you like men's clothes and you want small sizes, Uniqlo, which is a Japanese company, they make very petite.
Guest:They go all the way from XXS to XXXL.
Guest:So they got the run of the gamut.
Marc:But at what point did you realize that your queer identity was going to be up front?
Guest:I didn't realize at all.
Guest:I never even thought I was up front.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:It's like you actually, it's really interesting that you said that your dad, maybe there are lessons I grew up without.
Guest:My father is really like, is he around?
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:I'm estranged from my father, but he's, he's a religious guy.
Guest:Um,
Guest:you know, ultra-Orthodox Jewish religious guy, but he wore cowboy boots.
Guest:He was flashy in the ways that he could be.
Guest:I think I inherited some of that flashy, you know, growing up with my mother.
Marc:Finding a way to work within, you know, your established being.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:To have a little originality.
Guest:He always wore cowboy boots.
Marc:Well, what does that come from?
Marc:Is that something that happens in the ultra-Orthodox?
Guest:No, there's nobody with flair, really.
Guest:The idea is homogeny.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know.
Guest:But what was his background?
Guest:Well, he grew up in San Diego.
Guest:He grew up not religious.
Marc:Well, there it is.
Guest:So he kept some of his flair.
Guest:And now as I get older, you saw the car.
Guest:It's like, I used to really be angry.
Guest:I don't have a father, this and that.
Guest:There's no relationship.
Guest:But I realized as I age, I'm more like him than I am my mother in many ways.
Guest:Because she's...
Guest:Very Canadian, docile, sweet as can be, and he's aggressive and boisterous and funny.
Guest:And even the car, I have this 2007 Porsche Cayman, which needs a million things, catalytic converters always out.
Guest:I drive with an engine light on.
Guest:I mean, it just is what it is.
Guest:But my father always liked Porsche.
Guest:It's not like I'm a car person.
Marc:I just remember... And then there's also the Jewish Porsche thing, which is crazy.
Guest:What is that?
Marc:Porsche was a German company that was around...
Marc:during Hitler and, you know, may have done some work.
Guest:Yeah, Volkswagen, Mercedes.
Guest:We love German shit.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:This is our, you know, this is our Freudian.
Guest:What do you make of that?
Guest:It's sexual.
Guest:It's sexual.
Guest:You know, it's something.
Guest:It's like we're fucking them.
Guest:They fuck.
Guest:I don't know what it is.
Guest:But this helps me keep a relationship alive with my father in the ways that I am him.
Guest:It's almost like I do get a relationship with him.
Marc:But is it begrudgingly?
Marc:I mean, you don't.
Guest:No, I enjoy.
Guest:I pick the things of him that I now really enjoy.
Marc:You have to do that.
Marc:So you did have a relationship at one point.
Marc:You know the guy.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:And he was really funny.
Guest:I knew him when I was a little... And over the years, he'd visit when he could and things.
Guest:And he was always just...
Guest:Yeah, he was, like you said, front.
Guest:What did you describe me as?
Marc:Up front.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, but so how does that happen?
Marc:Like, so was he like a hippie Jew from San Diego?
Guest:Yeah, I think he was.
Guest:You know, I don't know too much about the background, but he... Where'd he meet your mother?
Yeah.
Guest:They both were becoming religious and they both met at the seminaries in New York.
Marc:The Jewish seminaries.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The yeshivas.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So he, you know, he actually, he went to Berkeley.
Yeah.
Marc:For what?
Guest:I think politics.
Guest:He was supposed to work for Bush one or something like this.
Guest:And then he heard some rabbi speak.
Guest:This is the folklore of my family.
Guest:There's no way to verify any of this, by the way.
Guest:I don't even know how these stories, but anyway, he heard some rabbi speak.
Guest:He moved to New York.
Guest:He never came back.
Guest:He had 10 kids with my mother.
Guest:10 kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you know them all?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:How old are they now?
Marc:What's the oldest one?
Guest:Well, we're all, the oldest is like 42.
Guest:We're 10 kids in 12 years.
Guest:We're all about a year apart.
Marc:That's crazy.
Guest:I'm close to some.
Guest:I'm not with others.
Marc:So they were Hasidic?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that was part of the duty.
Marc:Make more Jews.
Guest:Well, the duty is, you know, you're fucking without contraception.
Marc:Well, I get that.
Marc:But I mean, isn't part of the agenda to sort of repopulate?
Guest:Well, you know, that is what happens when you're not using.
Marc:Yeah, but I mean, it's not like you're just being lazy.
Marc:You want more kids.
Marc:They all have a lot of kids.
Guest:Yeah, we had a lot of kids.
Marc:And so you grew up in like one of these kind of cloistered Hasidic situations?
Guest:Yeah, but then my mother's Canadian.
Guest:We got out.
Guest:We moved to Canada.
Marc:She left him.
Guest:She left.
Guest:We left the community.
Marc:With 10 kids.
Guest:With 10 kids.
Guest:That must have been crazy.
Guest:It's crazy.
Marc:You know, we talked about loser Torski for a minute.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because I've talked to Jews about.
Guest:He grew up even crazier than me, if you can imagine.
Guest:I mean, to you, it looks all crazy.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:No, he got out.
Guest:He had a kid or something.
Marc:He was about to get married.
Marc:He had a wife, I think.
Marc:I don't remember if he had a kid, but like he was a grown person making a decision.
Marc:You at least were saved in a way.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:People like had you.
Guest:I'm like, my mother took us.
Marc:All 10 of us to Canada, to Canada, Montreal, Montreal.
Guest:That's where I met you because I was starting to find comedy then.
Guest:And I, and, and, and I, I got four minute spots at, at just for laughs.
Guest:And I came about four hours early.
Guest:Cause again, I have no chill.
Guest:I was so excited to be there.
Guest:And I was sitting on this, uh,
Guest:that they had at the Hyatt there where they hosted all the comics that came in for the Montreal festival.
Guest:And the only other person outside was you.
Guest:And then I looked in the background of that picture.
Guest:I think Nick Brazell.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who's like a booker there or something is also in the background of the picture.
Guest:But nobody was on the balcony.
Guest:I saw you.
Guest:Just sitting by myself out there.
Guest:Yeah, I was immediately like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you could tell I wanted to talk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you talked to me for two or three hours.
Guest:We were both there like retardedly early.
Guest:I don't know why.
Marc:We spoke for two or three hours?
Marc:Stop it.
Guest:You were beyond generous.
Guest:I could ask whatever.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was nosy.
Guest:Was it helpful?
Guest:Not help.
Guest:It was helpful in a way that we had a conversation.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You weren't like, do this, do that.
Guest:No, I wouldn't have done that.
Guest:But then years later, I started making my own way.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And so I see you at the store.
Guest:I come up hot.
Guest:I met, you know, which is where it's a code.
Guest:We don't really do that.
Guest:It's not like I do that all the time with lots of comics.
Guest:You, I did it with.
Guest:I did it with Sebastian, who was just a doll, as you can imagine.
Guest:And Tim, who I'm friends with, same thing, but lots of other.
Guest:But Whitney, there's so many people I go up to and it either hits or I rub them the wrong way.
Marc:I just had no sense of like, because my memory is not great and you look totally different.
Marc:I'm trying to piece it together.
Marc:It's 10 years ago.
Guest:No, and why would you remember me?
Marc:Because you're so Jewy.
Guest:Well, it happens.
Marc:And I'm sure that's why I talked to you.
Marc:Can we vape in here?
Marc:Yeah, I don't care.
Marc:So there's like, you know, there's something like, because I didn't know what you were doing on stage until like a few weeks ago.
Marc:I'm like, I'm going to watch this weirdo.
Guest:Did you watch me?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I was like, oh my God, she's like a legacy.
Marc:She's like, you know, a purely Jewish humorist.
Guest:But you know what?
Marc:That's not a put down.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And by the way, it is what it's like.
Guest:I think like I like I relate to people like my friends, grandparents or whatever.
Guest:I feel like I grew up like like when you do hear it, like I shared a room, the million siblings, there was bunk beds, you know, the bunk, the top bunk was always like caving in.
Guest:You could smash to death.
Guest:You know, we grew up.
Guest:You know, with multiple generations in the house, my great uncle Eddie was downstairs.
Guest:It was like all old people.
Guest:It was also that's why it's like it sounds like, oh, this comedy died.
Guest:And now it's like been reincarnated in me for some fucking reason.
Marc:Well, but what it is is because there's nobody that generationally has that proximity to that sort of Yiddish lilt of conversation.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That, you know, that was in your house.
Guest:That was in my house.
Marc:So, like most people, certainly your generation, but even mine, you know, I can affect that because I had grandparents that were, you know, once removed from that.
Marc:Mm.
Marc:But to actually to realize that it still exists generationally in certain communities.
Marc:So it's really a way of talking in a way of delivering that you've heightened.
Marc:And it's just your natural way of being.
Marc:But it's not a reinvention.
Marc:It's just sort of like haven't seen that in a while because culturally it doesn't exist anymore comedically.
Marc:Back in the day, you had guys on stage in the Borscht Belt that were doing.
Marc:Myron Cohen was doing half his act in Yiddish.
Marc:Lenny Bruce was Yiddish.
Marc:So it's a tone of comedy, which was the backbone of American comedy for fucking decades.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, you know, and I tried to change it.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:I have some siblings who don't, who speak really anglicized or something like this.
Guest:And I have other siblings that my girlfriend, Gabby, can't understand because it's so thick.
Guest:Do you speak Yiddish?
Guest:I don't.
Guest:I can understand a bit now, but we did.
Guest:And my mother does.
Guest:And my mother writes plays in Yiddish and does a lot in Yiddish still.
Guest:And I tried to, like, I remember in high school, my best friend sat me down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Shout out to Shani.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she was like, you're bringing down the group.
Guest:Because I went to still a religious, no, sorry, a conservative Jewish high school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Still pretty Jewish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Had a little looser.
Guest:It was much looser than how I grew up.
Guest:So, and she was like, you're bringing down the group.
Yeah.
Guest:And I would say, you know, like the color orange, I said orange.
Guest:Now I say orange.
Guest:And I switched so much that I started going crazy and not knowing what my voice was.
Marc:Too Jewy?
Marc:Buzzkill?
Guest:Yeah, like I would always have to think about it.
Guest:Kind of like being a dyke.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:When I was like very masculine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was presenting as female, as feminine as possible.
Guest:I will always be conscious how I'm sitting.
Guest:How I'm doing stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, is this too masculine?
Guest:I would put my hands in a certain way.
Guest:I would sit cross-legged and all like this.
Guest:Like, it's the same thing with my voice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To a point that I didn't know how to move.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I didn't know what I sounded like anyway.
Guest:And now it's always an amalgamation.
Guest:Like, now I feel like some people say, you sound like you're from Montreal.
Guest:You sound like here.
Guest:You sound like there.
Guest:So...
Guest:You know, it's landed here, but there's certainly in my family of my siblings, there's like a volume of some people have it way more and some people have it less.
Guest:My sister, who's worked in the corporate world now for like over 15 years, she's really has a nice, you know what I mean?
Guest:Very business like professional and that sort of thing.
Marc:But your delivery, but like the way you do comedy, you come in hot immediately and the jokes are solid, but you're definitely doing the thing.
Guest:Well, here's the thing.
Guest:In comedy, I'm almost, I get to be the most me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't have to... I can go extreme.
Guest:I can be almost an exaggeration of who I am.
Guest:Whatever thoughts are the deep, I can go a thousand percent.
Guest:In life, you've toned it down a little.
Guest:It happens naturally for me now.
Guest:I'm just not a thousand percent me.
Guest:I have the filters.
Guest:I don't have enough filters.
Guest:I don't have enough filters.
Guest:I still go up to people like, yo, I wish I had a father who's like, play it cool.
Guest:I don't... I still would like to play cool and do these things.
Guest:It's just...
Guest:But I'm still, you know, but the more heated I get, the less I think about how I'm being, the more it comes out, if that makes sense.
Marc:And the more funny.
Guest:Yeah, the less guardrails there is about, like, how I have to be.
Marc:Well, that's what's interesting about comedy, you know, and for me, too.
Marc:Like, I tell people, like, what should I do?
Marc:I said, well, you can do whatever the fuck you want.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, when you're starting out, it's harder now because everybody's recording everything.
Marc:But when you're starting out, just figure out how to make that your fucking territory up there.
Guest:Well, that was the thing I had first, you know, when I first started.
Guest:And it was kind of, you know, I probably started a year and a half in Montreal before I moved to Toronto.
Guest:And that's where I really, you know, you know, that was my real stomping ground.
Marc:But before you get there, though, like what is going on?
Marc:So your mother takes you all there.
Marc:There's 10 of you.
Marc:You integrate into the Jewish community in Montreal?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So we integrate.
Guest:We're still the most Jewish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I go to this conservative private school that we get on Sub-City.
Marc:So your mother's still ultra-Orthodox?
Guest:She's not ultra, but we're kosher to kitchen.
Marc:Is she wearing a wig?
Guest:No.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:But she's not wearing pants.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But she wasn't married, too, so she wasn't wearing a wig.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:But I don't know if she would have.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we were still, like, black kosher.
Guest:We were still, like, I was the religious kid at school, even though it was a Jewish conservative school.
Guest:I was still the most fanatic.
Marc:And were you religious?
No.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So as somebody who grows up in that, what does that require of a woman?
Guest:It's so funny because Gabby thinks, my girlfriend thinks I'm the most religious person still.
Guest:Well, because I have a mizuzah on the door.
Guest:I'm not an animal.
Guest:I mean, like there's certain things that I, you know, I don't have to like.
Marc:I don't even have one.
Guest:No, but you know, it was like, I don't need to like.
Marc:I feel bad about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's things that I can come bring one, but you know, there's things that, you know, I listen, I don't have to.
Marc:Did you say Shabbat candles?
Guest:if, if no, but occasionally I'll have like a dyke satyr or something, you know, I picked it, but you know,
Guest:I'm very informed by that because even when I go to... I like traditions.
Guest:I'm not somebody like... Most of Judaism, we really don't know about God.
Marc:The idea is like... I've been talking about that recently.
Marc:It's like we were never taught how to use God.
Guest:No, we were like, maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
Marc:This is what it is.
Marc:It's an ongoing conversation.
Guest:Yeah, it's like... So maybe it's energies now.
Guest:I think it's like... I don't know.
Guest:I think it's miraculous that...
Guest:a plant grows and it's not plugged into a wall and then water does it.
Marc:I get that.
Marc:But as Orthodox, you brought up with a God.
Guest:More like rules.
Guest:We almost didn't talk about God so much.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:It was almost like, well, there's kind of what you have to do.
Guest:And I did a lot of things you have to do.
Guest:I mean, I was kosher until 19.
Guest:I broke my kosherness on an egg McMuffin from McDonald's.
Marc:Was it a ritual?
Marc:Were you like, I'm doing it?
Guest:What happened was I had exams.
Guest:I was at school.
Marc:In college?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's called CGEP.
Guest:Dawson College in Montreal.
Guest:It's after high school.
Guest:You graduate high school, grade 11.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then you go to CGEP, which is pre-college.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For like two years.
Guest:And then you do university, which is three years, not a four-year program.
Guest:Okay.
Okay.
Guest:So I'm in this two-year, you know, pre-college thing that is only mandatory in Quebec.
Guest:Nobody else, I think, in the world has it.
Guest:But anyway, I'm there.
Guest:And it was very segregated, the school.
Marc:Between what and what?
Guest:Basically, all the schools, all the schools, there's like four sea gyps in Montreal or something.
Guest:And all of the schools have to go to them for two years.
Guest:So they're massive schools.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it was divided.
Guest:There was a JUCAF.
Marc:Really?
Guest:3E.
Guest:You ate.
Marc:That was a norm or was it this is where Jews eat?
Guest:If you came from a Jewish school, you ate there.
Marc:You had to eat there.
Guest:There was an Italian calf.
Marc:They put them there.
Guest:Not put, but that was the way it was.
Marc:It felt like prison there.
Marc:It was just a community thing.
Guest:It felt like prison there.
Marc:But it wasn't a rule you had to eat there, but the Jews ate there.
Guest:Yeah, and you kind of couldn't, you know, Conrad's was only for black kids.
Guest:And if you were there, like you could have a friend there, but you would kind of like at the entrance of the cafeteria, you would say like bye.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've got to go with the Jews.
Guest:Because I was dating an Italian girl who was in the Italian cafe.
Guest:And we didn't hang out in the Italian cafe.
Guest:She would want to come and have lunch with me in the Jew cafe.
Guest:I don't think that's a good idea.
Marc:But there wasn't like a queer cafe?
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh, gays, forget it.
Marc:Yeah, but it was okay to be out, though?
Guest:Gays were in the hallways a lot, just sitting along the fucking lockers.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:If that makes sense.
Guest:But anyway, so we just had exams.
Guest:I maybe had an 8 o'clock to 10 o'clock exam.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nailed it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm exhausted.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like 10 a.m.
Guest:And I remember.
Guest:First of all, it's Pesach.
Guest:It's Passover.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So you're not even supposed to be eating bread at all?
Guest:This is where all the non-religious Jews are suddenly keeping kosher for Passover.
Guest:Right.
Guest:All of my conservative Jewish friends are like, oh, we're not eating bread.
Guest:Meanwhile, they eat treif.
Guest:They eat whatever the fuck they want all the time.
Guest:They're telling me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was an Alexis Neon, which was the mall across the street.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and there was a mcdonald's in there yeah and i was like breakfast is still open because i saw big daddy we loved the movie big daddy and it was all mcdonald's breakfast yeah and even as a kid after school yeah i'd be walking home all the non-jewish kids had like mcdonald's happy meals i'm like i want to be happy yeah like why can't that's i'd be happy you know i just you smelling all i wanted was a nugget yeah
Guest:Like if I could get a nugget.
Guest:And then McDonald's breakfast became this other big thing.
Guest:I'm like, big daddy, you got to make breakfast.
Guest:And I realized it was served till 11 or something.
Guest:And I'm like, I'm doing it.
Guest:I don't know what.
Guest:There was no kosher food around me.
Guest:I just finished this exam.
Guest:I got no lunch on me.
Guest:There's nothing kosher around me.
Guest:I go and I get the egg McMuffin, which I heard about, with the bacon.
Marc:The latkes.
Guest:The hash browns.
Marc:The latkes, yeah.
Marc:The McDonald's latkes.
Guest:And then I bring it back to the juvenile and I eat it.
Guest:And I remember my friend, Ron, who's suddenly keeping kosher ridiculous.
Guest:For the day.
Guest:He goes, I can't believe you're going to eat this on Passover.
Guest:I said, how dare you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How many times have I gone out with everybody, ordered a fucking garden salad, no dressing, because I'm kosher?
Guest:I don't say fuck all about what you guys eat.
Guest:And I literally had an Egg McMuffin every day for like a month.
Guest:And I ended up working at McDonald's, legitimately.
Guest:I'm the only one who can prove that.
Guest:And I ate there twice a day the entire time we worked there, my friend Shanina.
Marc:Did you feel like working at McDonald's was some sort of act of rebellion?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:They paid $11 an hour, which is way more than the seven an hour you could get.
Guest:McDonald's had a shortage of workers, so they were giving $11 an hour, which at the time was insane.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But what was the feeling, though?
Marc:I mean, after a lifetime of honoring these codes and rules.
Guest:No feelings.
Guest:You know what?
Marc:I guess.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:I'm just like, more people have something to say about it than me.
Guest:I'm like, well, you know what I mean?
Guest:It's like.
Guest:I remember the first, like when I started getting like dollar pizza or whatever that wasn't kosher, I had more of a feeling about it, maybe a little guilt.
Guest:But once I was like, and then once you're gay, like people go, oh, do you care that you're, you know, do you care about marrying Jewish?
Guest:I go, what are we talking about?
Guest:What are we doing here?
Guest:I'm scissoring.
Guest:Like, what are you talking about?
Guest:Like, it's over.
Guest:We're not procreating.
Yeah.
Guest:And plus, I feel like my mother procreated enough for all of us.
Guest:We don't have to do nothing.
Marc:So when did you, like, when was the first conversations you had with your mother about being gay?
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah, so I was outed horribly.
Marc:How old?
Guest:I was, like, 17, 18.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was still at this college dating this freaking Italian girl who was...
Guest:you know, really pressuring me.
Guest:She wanted to hold my hand in public and all this shit.
Guest:And I remember we were leaving school and we were like going to take the subway, you know, the Metro and the platform.
Guest:She was like, hold my hand.
Guest:And this was the subway stop that a whole school got out at.
Guest:So I'm like, there's no fucking way.
Guest:What am I fucking gay?
Guest:And she was like, if you don't hold my hand, I'm getting on the train without you.
Guest:I waved the fuck to her.
Guest:I was like, goodbye.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not doing that.
Guest:And then I started going out.
Guest:We had a campus bar.
Guest:Wasn't on campus, but it was like, you know.
Marc:Yeah, the place.
Guest:Yeah, it was called Mad Hatter's in Montreal.
Guest:And we were, you know, it was the kind of place where kids would go out.
Guest:We would put our money together, buy a pitcher.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was getting a little tipsy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, early in like, you know.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And we go to the bathroom and she pulls me to the stall.
Guest:We're making out in the stall.
Yeah.
Guest:People are yelling for the bathroom because it's like, there's like two stalls and it's, you know, so we fling out of it, you know, our embrace kind of separating as the door opens.
Guest:And this bitch that I went to school with, Jewish school with, saw me, which is my worst nightmare.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I'm like paranoid or whatever.
Guest:Sobered up pretty quick.
Guest:And literally it felt like that movie A Walk to Remember.
Guest:I don't know if you've seen Shane West and Mandy Moore, but where like the whole cafeteria like, you know, saw a nude of you or something.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And it felt like I was walking in and I was getting messages on...
Guest:MSN.
Marc:So what did she put it out into the world somehow?
Guest:Yeah, it spread like wildfire.
Marc:This is before Instagram and shit.
Guest:Yeah, just before.
Guest:But it's still the Jewish community there was so... It spread like wildfire.
Guest:And I just remember literally being... At this point, I'm 17, 18.
Guest:I live on my own.
Guest:I grew up really poor.
Guest:It was either like, oh, I could maybe pay my mom rent or...
Guest:get my own spot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At one point I almost moved out with my brother Menachem into a studio with like a curtain in between us.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was like, eh, what if he masturbates?
Guest:I started thinking about that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How old is he?
Guest:He was a year old.
Guest:He was like 18.
Guest:I was 17.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was like, Menachem, we could get our own place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like really down with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was doing most of the groundwork, like looking at these places in Montreal.
Guest:But it quickly became clear that we couldn't afford a one bedroom.
Guest:Is he still religious, that one?
Guest:No.
Guest:All right.
Guest:And then...
Guest:Yeah, it spread.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:And my friends told me, you know, I thought at that point social life was way more important than my family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because this will go back.
Guest:At this point social life was all I had.
Guest:Like my friends, college time, you know what I mean?
Guest:I'm living on my own.
Guest:A lot of my friends are living at home or they have dorms or something like this.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And I thought my life was falling apart.
Guest:I was, like, I'm really lucky to be alive here because I thought I was, like, losing.
Guest:Like, I was just, I had no money.
Guest:I couldn't do school anymore.
Guest:I'm, like, I don't even think I could afford this anymore.
Marc:So you were depressed, you mean?
Guest:Yeah, and I thought I was, like, my life was over.
Marc:Because you were going to die?
Marc:You were going to kill yourself?
Guest:I guess so.
Guest:Like, I just, like, wasn't sure how to even, like, one foot forward.
Guest:Because all my friends, my friends were telling me things like...
Guest:You know, I can't be friends with you.
Guest:Like, even though it was progressive.
Guest:But for religious reasons or just being.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were still in a conservative traditional Jewish community.
Guest:That was the thing.
Guest:It wasn't like, you know, it wasn't orthodox, but it was still traditional in a way like an American traditional, you know.
Marc:So it was a God's law kind of thing.
Guest:No, it was kind of like, that's weird.
Guest:She lied.
Guest:It's like I didn't lie.
Guest:I wasn't even gay to myself yet.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Why do I have to tell you everything?
Guest:I don't even know everything.
Yeah.
Guest:Like people expect they need to know everything.
Guest:It's like, I'm figuring it out.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I'm figuring it out.
Guest:I haven't even said I'm gay yet.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm kind of hoping this passes.
Guest:I'm kind of hoping this goes away.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think it's a phase.
Guest:I'm like, it's probably a phase.
Guest:You're not gay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What are you, crazy?
Guest:You already grew up with this deaf mother, single mom of 10.
Marc:Funny mom about the train.
Marc:It's like, what am I, gay?
Guest:Yeah, no, I'm not gay.
Guest:You're gay.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not actually gay.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I really just didn't want another thing.
Guest:Growing up so poor, being on my own.
Guest:My mother was hearing impaired and crazy.
Guest:We were on welfare.
Guest:I was on subsidy at the school.
Guest:I didn't want another thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:As soon as gay happened, I'm like, no, no, no.
Marc:So you're already stigmatized for being poor and having- Poor was horrible.
Guest:Poor was the worst thing I've ever been through.
Marc:And then your whole life was like that upon arriving in Canada?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was just horrendous.
Guest:And I went to a rich school.
Guest:You know, I went to a Jewish private school on subsidy.
Guest:Maybe there was like five or six kids in the whole class of 200 or 150 that, you know, were welfare cases.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:And that was, that highlighted how poor I was.
Guest:I guess as an early child, you're in the community, everybody's kind of poor.
Guest:You know, when you're yelling with a neighbor's family or something, you're like, you know, classic insults we have.
Guest:It's like, well, you're fat, you're ugly.
Guest:Well, you're poor, you're poor too.
Guest:Like we all had like, you know, we went right for the guttural.
Guest:And then.
Marc:So what happened after you were outed?
Marc:I mean, how did that come together?
Guest:So I lost all my friends.
Marc:Totally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was a couple friends.
Guest:Shout out to Allie and Malay.
Guest:My friend Malay messaged me.
Guest:She was like, hey, dog, hear what's happening.
Guest:Love you no matter what.
Guest:Same with my friend Allie, like, hey, if you want to talk, don't.
Guest:But I had other friends saying, I'm hearing sketchy things about you.
Guest:I don't know what's true.
Guest:And they've all come around since, but it was really devastating.
Marc:And how'd you handle it?
Guest:I can't even almost remember.
Marc:That's because it was trauma, right?
Marc:I just got through.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I just literally got through.
Marc:But did you feel like walking down the halls, you were getting looks and all that shit?
Guest:Oh, it was horrible.
Marc:Oh, Christ.
Guest:Yeah, no, I didn't go into the Jucaf.
Marc:I didn't... Just stayed in the hallway?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, like I just went to class and literally went home and I probably lost so much weight.
Guest:Like I didn't eat a lot.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I was really.
Marc:What happened to the Italian girl?
Guest:Yeah, she was.
Guest:I can't remember even how I navigated that with her.
Marc:Isn't that strange?
Marc:Like all that stuff is so blur.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then when I told my mother, so when I was outed, I knew that one of my siblings might find out and tell my mother.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I felt like, and I had gone to my mother's for like Friday.
Guest:I used to do homework in the kitchen table there or whatever, eat her free food or whatever.
Guest:And I said, Hey ma, I just like barged in and I was like, Hey ma,
Guest:I got a girlfriend she's blonde and she was like does she want to come for Shabbos I'm like nobody wants to fucking come here so she took it my family took it great I mean my sister Kai was like what you don't think we've all made out with girls my sister Kai's like smoking a cigarette she's like changing a tampon in front of me she's got her foot up on the ledge she's like you don't think just because you make out with girls I'm like no I think it's actually more than that I have a girlfriend she's like we've all had girlfriends I'm like what's going on
Guest:So my family was great.
Guest:It was the social shit at that age that was the hardest.
Marc:Well, that's interesting, though, that your mother somehow maintained a progressive sensibility.
Guest:Well, now she's Jews for Jesus.
Marc:So she's totally off again.
Guest:When the fuck did that happen?
Guest:No, my mother's addicted to cults.
Guest:Like people fall in love with people.
Guest:She falls in love with the community.
Guest:Basically, if you're at the end of an escalator,
Guest:One way to get my mother is just stand at the end of an escalator, any subway station.
Guest:If she comes up, she will grab your pamphlet.
Guest:She will read it.
Guest:She's considering it.
Guest:She is truly going to consider it.
Guest:What do you think that is?
Guest:She just likes – she's always searching for more.
Guest:She's vulnerable.
Guest:When I ask her, she goes, if you're asking if I had any friends growing up, the answer is no.
Guest:I'm like, ma –
Guest:what is going on but she yeah just community in a sense of my mother always feels like she's sinning I guess but she's never sinned did she grow up Jewish yeah she's Jewish but I think also she has a daddy thing that religion is very daddy yes like my mother grew up a daddy's girl my grandfather my Zadie her father who saved us quote unquote from from New York they were very very very close yeah
Guest:OK, then she leaves his house.
Guest:She marries my father.
Guest:She's under the rule of my father.
Guest:She has no autonomy, basically.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In her family.
Guest:She's like just, you know, bearing kids.
Guest:And he what he says goes and whatever.
Guest:And then she divorces my father.
Marc:What was what was the what what drove that?
Guest:Very abusive.
Guest:They had a horrible, abusive relationship.
Marc:And once you left Canada, that's when it ended with him for you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it was like, you know, he would try and visit, but it was very difficult.
Guest:He made me visit once a year, and then that went to once every two years.
Guest:And then her father dies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she comes back to Canada to her father and he's great and we grew up with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he dies and then she's unsure of herself without a man over her.
Guest:So Jesus becomes her new daddy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Everybody's daddy.
Guest:The father.
Guest:So she needs that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And maybe I try and explain to her that maybe I don't need that because I grew up mostly with a single mom.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:So so it's sort of fortuitous that you were kind of able to get out from under, you know, being a real kind of, you know, insulated religious fanatic just by by coincidence.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like it seems like that being outed, you know, kind of forced your hand.
Marc:But it did sort of I assume that like you coming to grips or accepting yourself somehow coincided with comedy.
Guest:Yeah, I kind of heard about comedy in Montreal.
Marc:In college?
Guest:Yeah, probably around this whole time, maybe a little bit later, maybe university.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I guess I had heard of it and I knew my brothers knew something about it, but I didn't really know it or what it was.
Guest:But they had the festival again in Montreal.
Guest:So that was also a great coincidence because it was huge.
Guest:And as soon as I heard of it, I thought, oh, I could do that.
Marc:You went and watched?
Guest:Yeah, so I don't know if we got tickets.
Guest:It was very expensive.
Guest:But I knew of the festival.
Guest:I watched stuff like online or torrented.
Guest:But also I did it immediately as soon as I found out to do it.
Guest:Like as soon as I heard about it, I just looked up like comedy.
Guest:I was like, where's the best place to bomb?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I started doing it almost not knowing what it was, which was also great because I had no stakes.
Guest:I had no...
Guest:I really didn't know that it could be a big thing or a not thing or a job or anything.
Marc:And you weren't watching it?
Marc:No, I didn't know.
Guest:You had no heroes.
Guest:No, but my family was funny.
Guest:We were fine.
Guest:I had shit to say.
Guest:And it's funny that you said early on, you were talking about people, comics who start and whatever, and can't they use that or find their voice?
Guest:The first thing older comics in Montreal always tell me, like,
Guest:it takes 10 years to find you you know sure like 10 years you know and and you know 10 years to find your voice and this and that the first comment i always got was my voice i have such a strong voice the content climate came up i had it opposite to everyone yeah because basically it was like my voice was the strongest thing right away anything i said even if it was something political or or in the zeitgeist or people were talking about it on stage if i said it it sounded new different it was a different perspective
Marc:Well, yeah, and also you weren't cluttered with, you know, heroes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're coming into it like clean slate somehow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You weren't like, you know, that guy's funny or that woman's funny and I want to be like her.
Guest:I was going back and like as I was falling in love with comedy, I was also watching it.
Guest:Like I watched Eddie Murphy.
Guest:I was like, somebody should do something.
Guest:Like as if, you know, I'm 25 years late.
Marc:Well, I mean, when I got into comedy, I always loved comedy.
Marc:But I always I never saw it as some sort of I never saw myself as an entertainer.
Marc:I just knew that I had things to say and I had a way of saying it and that I wanted to say it.
Marc:And I wanted to have the freedom to say whatever the fuck I wanted.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the only context was, well, it's got to be funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, like, it was my way of finding myself, my voice.
Marc:That was all.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I never thought, like, I really want to entertain people.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, no, I think I was always like a class clown type.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Guest:There were like hints of this happening, but I guess I didn't know of it as a thing.
Guest:At the time, I was working as an auditor, as an accountant.
Guest:I got a good job from university.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They gave you an internship and they gave me a laptop for keeps, which got me in.
Guest:I was like, for keeps?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, yeah, I'm going to work here.
Yeah.
Guest:I can have this?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like it was just an internship.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, yeah, it's a good job.
Marc:Free computer.
Marc:This is good benefits.
Guest:This is good benefits.
Marc:So when you're first going on, are you just like, are you doing what you do?
Marc:You're just sort of like, you're just going up there and just like going?
Guest:yeah you're writing jokes yeah i was like like stuff about my my family and my mother was a very big inspiration and you know growing up poor i was starting to own more i was so um ashamed to be poor and i hid it for so long i was somebody who like tried not to look poor or be poor yeah and i
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I started owning it a little bit more.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was a way to like bring less shame to the way things I could not control.
Marc:And what about the gay thing?
Guest:The gay idea.
Guest:I was already like I looked gay like it's enough.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like it was clear.
Marc:People knew.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like it was like I didn't have to like that is even more recent that stuff, because now there's a lot of like queer stuff and gender stuff that I'm in a place where I can comment about that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But then no need to.
Guest:But then it's like, yeah, she's gay.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's like my mother hated that.
Guest:I switched my name to Robbie, you know, when I started comedy.
Guest:But when I was doing it, when I was an accountant, I went by my birth name, Rivka.
Guest:And I didn't want the firm to think I wasn't like diehard for them, which I literally was.
Guest:Shout out to KPMG.
Guest:Gave me an internship and then a job.
Guest:But like you have to like live for this company.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like basically I was getting like.
Marc:So you're Rivka the accountant.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was Rivka.
Guest:And I really didn't know.
Marc:Was it a Jewish accounting firm?
Guest:No.
Guest:And I specifically didn't go... There was a Jewish partner at another big accounting firm, Ernst & Young, who was like, hey, we stick with each other.
Guest:And I was like, I kind of don't want this vibe anymore.
Guest:And I went where they had a lot of French people, actually, Montreal still.
Marc:You speak French?
Guest:Oui, je parle français.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Toi?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, no, it's mandatory there.
Guest:I had to work in French and shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I used Robbie because I wanted...
Guest:I wanted to keep the R initial.
Guest:I wanted to feel like me.
Guest:I wanted it almost to be familial.
Guest:And my mom's brother's name was Robbie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My uncle, Rob, never heard a bad thing about him my whole life.
Guest:He lived in Vermont.
Guest:We thought he was like Ned Flounders.
Guest:He would come to New York and Montreal.
Guest:He'd be like, who wants to play ball?
Guest:And we'd be like, who's this faggot?
Guest:We just were so mean to him, but he was the greatest guy.
Guest:And over the years, we got to acknowledge this was just a good dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I went with Robbie because I never heard anything bad about my Uncle Rob.
Guest:And shout out to Uncle Rob, my Aunt Sheila.
Guest:They're wonderful people.
Guest:And...
Guest:It felt like still home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It felt like a name I knew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I could keep separate.
Guest:But then I was, it was going, because I said, I'm doing this comedy thing six months.
Guest:Doesn't work.
Guest:I have the best job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Easy as hell.
Guest:I don't know what I'm doing at work, but you just pretend.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And they keep you around.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like, there's nothing to do.
Marc:So what happens after six months?
Guest:There was a little write-up of me in the local paper.
Marc:That was enough.
Guest:So that was some, and they got the, partners got the paper every morning in their office.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So a partner came to me, I thought I was in big trouble.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, you know, this is you.
Guest:Like it was Robbie Hoffman, Rifka Hoffman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I was like moonlighting.
Guest:I had two suits from Jacob, which was, shout out to Jacob from Montreal, which was.
Guest:And I would wear my suits and I would go to the bathroom.
Guest:I would change into jeans and like a T-shirt and I'd go do comedy.
Marc:Where?
Marc:In Montreal.
Guest:Yeah, the works.
Guest:I did the open mic there.
Guest:Any mic that I could basically do, I was doing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what did the partner say?
Guest:And he actually really, like, didn't want me to do the Christmas party.
Guest:He thought it was great that I was doing that.
Marc:Did you do the Christmas party?
Guest:I think I left the company before that, but they all did come to see me do 40 minutes at Just Relapse.
Guest:Because I promoted that, like, hey, guys, I'm in the festival.
Guest:I was very grandiose, which I recently had a conversation with my...
Guest:friend about how I was always braggadocious or grandiose or I would exaggerate, but it's like when you don't have parents who believe in you or tell you anything, like I was in fact encouraged I couldn't do anything.
Marc:And also you're like the youngest kid.
Guest:Yeah, but it's also like, I was like, I'm going to give myself with my parents.
Guest:I'm going to become the father.
Guest:I didn't have the mother.
Guest:I'm going to like, you got this, Rob.
Guest:You are doing just last.
Guest:Fuck yeah.
Guest:I don't care that it's four minutes.
Guest:Look at you.
Guest:And I would promote that shit.
Guest:But it's annoying to people because they're like...
Guest:But other people have parents and stuff, so they learned to, oh, they were believed in.
Guest:But I was never really believed in.
Guest:My mother was very, like, fine about us doing anything.
Guest:She was encouraging and really, you know, respected all her kids and thought we were clever.
Guest:But there was no idea that you could do much.
Guest:I remember her telling my brothers, like, school's not for everyone.
Wow.
Marc:But so do you find, but was it a battle against a sort of insecurity or you just second nature?
Marc:Like I'm here, fuck off.
Guest:I just didn't even think about it.
Guest:I really believed in myself.
Guest:I didn't think about it.
Marc:I was like, that's kind of a gift.
Guest:Yeah, I just didn't.
Guest:I was just like going in.
Marc:So what's the first gig you get?
Marc:When do you start working?
Guest:I started working pretty—I mean, I started doing mics and shows.
Guest:I did that—the head of Just Flaps really liked me early, and I got those four-minute spots.
Guest:Bruce, shout-out to Bruce.
Guest:Bruce likes me.
Guest:It was a guy, Andy, at the time.
Guest:Yeah, Andy, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then I moved to Toronto.
Guest:Well, what happened was a lot of politics in, like, the comedy works, which was, like, the main club.
Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:What was that guy's name?
Marc:Jimmy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was like a lot of politics.
Guest:Like I would win the best of open mic all the time.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But I wouldn't get to do the weekend.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Like they would keep like people down like that were funny.
Guest:They had that kind of power.
Marc:The young club.
Guest:They would keep these guys like who are like, I'm like, but I literally like the crowd vote.
Guest:It's a crowd based vote.
Marc:They were the gatekeepers though.
Marc:Those club owners at that time.
Marc:It seemed like it should have been over by then.
Marc:It was the bookers too.
Guest:It wasn't just the club owner because the club owner really liked me and he would say, I want you on the weekend.
Guest:But then the booker would never put me on.
Guest:So I moved to Toronto and everybody, they embraced me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I grew up in Montreal thinking Toronto sucks.
Guest:It sucks.
Guest:They have a rivalry versus Toronto.
Guest:They're not insecure.
Guest:They don't.
Guest:Montreal's a great party town.
Guest:You like to go there.
Guest:They're not thinking the same way.
Guest:And I grew up thinking it would be terrible.
Guest:Wonderful.
Guest:I got a bike.
Guest:I rode around everywhere doing shows.
Marc:I like Toronto.
Guest:Love it.
Marc:What are those clubs there?
Yeah.
Guest:uh, the comedy bar.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:Excellent.
Marc:With this guy, like three rooms in it, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's great.
Guest:Um, and they have a new one, but it's just the whole scene in general was fucking awesome.
Marc:So that's where you really kind of came into.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:That's when I really started building material.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then do you, do you start touring?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:Even now, I barely say that I'm touring.
Guest:I put a few dates together and I guess that's a tour.
Guest:But yeah, I guess I was.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:It's funny that you ask that because early memories I have.
Guest:I was taking I didn't have a car or a license.
Guest:I got my license way late.
Guest:So I'd take the bus.
Guest:Like if I was working in Montreal or Toronto, like you could go to Ottawa two hours away.
Guest:You could go to like Waterloo, all these weird towns that are nearby.
Marc:For one-nighters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or like literally I would go for like if it was a really good mic.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like I would go if it was just 10 minutes of a spot at a club or something.
Guest:But I thought it was a big deal.
Guest:Like, oh, I'm playing this place.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:So, but I remember being on the bus, being on the Greyhound.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm listening to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think, you know, I listened to you with, I think you had Obama on, which was really cool.
Guest:Melissa Etheridge episode was unbelievable.
Marc:Wasn't she great?
Guest:She was, that episode was unbelievable.
Guest:And at first I'm like, ah, you're gay, you're going to listen to the gay.
Guest:I was like, all right, I'll throw it on.
Marc:She's spectacular.
Guest:It was phenomenal.
Marc:It's so funny.
Marc:I saw her on the plane with her whole family, her wife and everybody.
Marc:It was like really, it was just sort of like, ugh.
Marc:Dikes on flights.
Guest:It's brutal.
Marc:But it was cute to see her in that context.
Guest:I was still working.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I moved from accounting.
Guest:Then I got a sales job.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was still, like, working crazy.
Marc:When did you start making money in show business?
Guest:Then I got my first job.
Guest:I left for a kid's show, Odd Squad, as a writer's assistant.
Marc:What was that?
Marc:That was in Canada?
Guest:Yeah, it was in Toronto.
Guest:And it was half in L.A.
Guest:So I started coming to L.A.
Guest:because it was a PBS show that shot in Canada.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:What was the angle?
Guest:It was like law and order for kids.
Marc:At the school?
Guest:No, they were real kids.
Guest:They were agents.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And they solved odd crimes.
Marc:So how many writers were in the room?
Guest:Nobody.
Guest:It was basically the head writer, Tim, who's amazing.
Guest:Mark, who's amazing.
Guest:This is another area I think I got very lucky in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Me Too, when Me Too, like, Me Too's happening.
Guest:I'm only working for the greatest white dudes I've ever met.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Unfortunately.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And if you count one of them's Italian.
Guest:I don't know what you were there.
Guest:But...
Guest:So basically I look like a deck like I'm like spared from like these guys are promoting me at every so I feel but you know what I mean it's not to discount it's just more of a funny note that like I'm working for these two guys they're promoting me at every turn we're writing all the episodes I'm a writer's assistant but they're giving me scripts.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And the show grows.
Guest:It balloons huge.
Guest:I win an Emmy for it.
Guest:Daytime Emmy.
Marc:And you learn how to do it.
Guest:We learn it.
Guest:That was my film school.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'd never been to film.
Guest:I didn't even know.
Guest:The scripts, it was like, it was literally like script writing school because, yes, we couldn't swear and there was no, you know, sexual innuendo.
Guest:But structure, jokes.
Guest:Structure, jokes, trimming the fat tight, tight, tight.
Guest:And we did 80 scripts a season.
Guest:What?
Guest:80 scripts.
Marc:For 22 minutes?
Guest:Each was 11 minutes.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:So 11, 11, 22.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Tell a whole story in 11 minutes.
Guest:But you tell a whole story.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:With a B. And so it was like bootcamp.
Guest:And not only am I reading all these scripts, I'm handing in a script every month.
Guest:Like it was, and I made like $200.
Guest:I left my like finance accounting sales type work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I make almost no money, but I'm working.
Guest:It's the first time that I'm not late to work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like when I was, when I was, I worked in accounting recruitment at one point.
Marc:Are you directing too?
Guest:Are you dealing with the kids?
Guest:Oh, no, no.
Guest:I'm dealing with the kids.
Guest:I mean, I'm not directing.
Guest:They're like all around my desk.
Guest:Like I remember Brendan, he was like 12 at the time.
Guest:This kid is like, hey, we're seeing a movie on the weekend, my birthday.
Guest:I'm like, Brendan, I'm not friends with a child.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I'm not going.
Guest:Why did you accept my friend request?
Guest:I am not friends with kids.
Guest:What am I fucking Drake?
Guest:I'm not doing it.
Guest:You know, but it was like these kids would come and pitch you ideas.
Guest:And it was just tremendous.
Guest:It was such a fun time.
Guest:And I realized that when I was like in accounting or I was working recruitment at one point, I would come in like late at 10.
Guest:Like I had such a drudge going into work.
Guest:I had such a depression.
Guest:Every morning I wake up, dread.
Guest:And also it's like dark out in Canada.
Guest:It's freezing.
Guest:And you're going.
Guest:You're getting on the subway.
Guest:And I would roll in at 10.
Guest:I remember my boss, he was like, Rob, you know, it's 10 o'clock.
Guest:We start work at 8.30.
Guest:I'm like, well, are you going to fire me or not?
Guest:Because if you're not going to fire me, then it's already 10 o'clock.
Guest:I got a lot of emails to catch up on.
Guest:So it's like, I was like, I didn't give a shit.
Guest:When I was working for money enough to survive still.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Definitely livable wage and benefits and everything.
Guest:I'm in Toronto and doing stand-up at night.
Guest:I was there early.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would always watch my boss come in.
Guest:Hey, Tim.
Guest:He was the greatest guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mark come in.
Guest:I just was...
Guest:always on top of my shit i left late i hung out i just loved the whole pace of it the whole getting scripts out these were coming to me when are we getting these changes when are we getting these changes you know because their whole shit is fucked up yeah yeah and i'm learning all the departments going into art department can you make it look like a duck sometimes you ask art department for a duck they give you we got a brown duck i'm like no you know what a duck looks like it's white it's got an orange beak
Guest:Like they're always like futzing around like that's not going to read a duck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a kid's show.
Guest:Like, so I'm learning all the departments and we start doing like this.
Guest:The show is getting huge.
Guest:It's the biggest live action show, I think, since Sesame Street that PBS had.
Guest:So, you know, they're shooting like main thing and then they're doing splinter units.
Guest:And my boss is trusting me.
Guest:He's like, go play.
Guest:Go to set on the splinter unit, give them alts and stuff.
Guest:So I was working side by side with the director.
Marc:Giving kids lines?
Guest:Yeah, giving kids lines.
Guest:Could do it like this, could do it like this, but it's really fun with kids.
Guest:And they have their own shit and they're wild.
Guest:And these kids are brilliant.
Guest:Shout out to kid actors.
Guest:I know they've come a long way in a lot of the regulation.
Guest:But the kids we had...
Guest:It was unusual show in the way that most kids on a set, they're the only kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Our show was all kids.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You got 50 other kids.
Marc:How long did you do that for?
Guest:Three and a half years.
Marc:And then you move here?
Guest:Yeah, then, yeah.
Guest:No, then I moved to New York.
Guest:I was doing Gethard.
Marc:Oh, yeah, Chris, yeah.
Guest:Which was... A whole different thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:A different kind of... I moved from kids to total... Weirdness.
Guest:And then I started, like, really doing and selling my own work and that sort of thing.
Guest:And working on other shows.
Guest:But, like, starting development, starting to write... I mean, the first script I ever wrote, truthfully, was when I started stand-up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I assumed...
Guest:That stand-ups had shows because the ones that I heard of to look up were like Seinfeld, Ellen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just didn't even know.
Guest:I thought, oh, well, Seinfeld does a show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I wrote a script like I had an idea.
Guest:For you.
Guest:And I wrote it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I wrote it.
Guest:In like a week.
Guest:But then I looked up the fucked up formatting it's in.
Guest:I'm like, how does this script?
Guest:And it was in that final draft.
Guest:It was like $400.
Guest:I'm like, are they out of their mind?
Guest:Who's got the money?
Guest:So I painstakingly in Word did all the spacing like that, printed it in PDF, and I traipsed that around.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did it get any attention?
Guest:So it got a lot of attention.
Guest:I went basically.
Guest:So I printed out PDF.
Guest:I found the exact font that that scripts are in choreo.
Guest:I'm like, oh, my God, the fonts and words.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I put it in PDF.
Guest:I print it.
Guest:OK.
Guest:I from the accounting job, I take all the vanilla envelopes.
Guest:They have good supplies and shit.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We had a supply room.
Guest:I was getting highlighters.
Guest:I was getting my shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I just, like, traipsed it around, like, wherever in Canada they had TV.
Guest:Like, we had HBO Canada at the time.
Guest:We had the movie network.
Guest:Like, there was some Canadian offices in Toronto.
Guest:And I just, like, drove them around.
Guest:And I was, like, I remember, like, I got to HBO Canada.
Guest:I was, like, or whoever owned it.
Guest:It was, like, a huge building.
Guest:And I went to the secure or whoever was sitting there.
Guest:I was, like, the president asked to read this.
Guest:And they're, like, we don't have a president.
Guest:Like, which office?
Guest:And I didn't know.
Guest:I didn't know anything.
Guest:I thought they owned the whole building.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't know.
Guest:I'm just a courier.
Guest:I have my bike out.
Guest:I'm just a courier.
Guest:I told to drop it off.
Guest:And I got an option from that.
Guest:Oh, gave you some money.
Guest:So they read it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got a deal for $1,000.
Guest:I called my friend Ron, who was in first year law school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, Ron, they asked me if I have a lawyer, if I have rep.
Guest:I took a meeting with them.
Guest:I said, yeah, I got a lawyer.
Guest:And so Ronnie reads it and he's like, I'm in first year.
Guest:I'm doing the same classes.
Guest:We're doing core classes.
Guest:Like I haven't started law specific classes.
Guest:Like we're all doing econ 101.
Guest:Like we're all doing the same.
Guest:I'm like, Ron, you got to get an hour.
Guest:Do I sign this?
Guest:He says, it sounds like a thousand dollars.
Guest:They own you forever.
Guest:I'm like, great, let's do it.
Marc:And that was what it was?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was the deal?
Guest:I got an option.
Guest:So the option was like, I thought it was like, first of all, it was $1,000.
Guest:It was amazing at the time.
Guest:But that was like their option to sell.
Guest:I started learning the business part.
Guest:That means that I, you know.
Marc:And what happened with it?
Guest:Nothing happened with it.
Guest:It never went, but it got me a lot of recognition.
Guest:It got me an agent.
Guest:It got me some buzz around Toronto.
Guest:And that's how I got the Odd Squad job as a writer's assistant.
Guest:They're like, there's this kid that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then how do you get hooked up with Chris Gethardt?
Guest:I submitted a blind packet.
Guest:There was a request for packets, and I just submitted a packet.
Marc:And he liked you.
Guest:And he said he read like 3,000 packets.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, there's some dude in Toronto.
Guest:And it was me.
Guest:And he was, fuck yeah, because he said he had to hire women.
Guest:Their DEI was not good there.
Guest:It was all white guys from UCB.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he's like, fuck.
Yeah.
Marc:Everything worked out.
Marc:How long did you write for him?
Guest:I did like two seasons.
Marc:And that puts you in New York and you're doing all the alt shows or what?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I'm getting... I'm really moving in New York now.
Guest:And then I moved back to L.A.
Guest:I'm getting work.
Guest:Like, you know, moving on to...
Guest:writing my own stuff and yeah that's how I start really I guess my full time from having a day job to into the business working TV and stand up was Odd Squad I never looked after that I went from job to job to job like what other shows you write for like Working Moms
Guest:Yeah, lots of things.
Guest:Lots of independent shit too.
Marc:So was that sort of, that was what you were making a living doing?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yes, writing and doing stand-up.
Guest:And the comedy was all right.
Guest:Stand-up was still, I've been slow and steady wins the race.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like it's been the weirdest thing.
Guest:Like even this, like this meeting with you, I'm probably talking a mile a minute because I'm still so excited to be with you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've already told you I have no chill so I don't have to pretend to have it.
Guest:But it feels like one step further
Guest:in a million-mile journey.
Guest:Like, literally.
Guest:Like, it feels like that saying.
Guest:So, I've been slow and steady, but I think, to me, the biggest luxury has always felt like, wow, I never get over, like, even when I was working, like, yeah, third odd square, it's like, I get to do what I love for a living.
Guest:Like, waking up without that dread, it's the biggest luxury of my life, and I'm so thankful that I get to
Guest:I enjoy what I do.
Guest:It's it's almost unheard of.
Guest:And it's becoming less and less possible for many, many people.
Guest:And it's becoming more possible for some.
Guest:But I do find like, you know, there's a lot of people where I come from and everything like, you know, it's just not an option.
Marc:Well, how did the special come along?
Marc:Didn't I watch the special?
Guest:Oh, the Crave?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was after Gethard.
Guest:I had, they said, well, you know, Crave in Canada wants to do an hour special with you, produced by the Just for Laughs company.
Guest:And there was this idea like, oh, are we going to hold out for Netflix or this and that?
Guest:And it's like, I'm like 25K.
Guest:We don't hold out for nothing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow this is my finance background coming in yeah say yes to the money in your hand right now so we did i had six weeks and i had one take that what you see then i got my period that morning yeah i remember eating a steak and rolls i was trying to fill it i'm like i gotta get as much iron or i don't even know what did you know whether or not you had the time
Guest:Oh, I did an hour and 20.
Guest:I did almost like... The original set, I think, was an hour and a half.
Guest:They sent me 120.
Marc:But how much of it... But you weren't out on the road doing an hour and 20.
Guest:I didn't even have... I only could get 10-minute spots.
Guest:I still wasn't doing...
Guest:I wasn't like quite headlining yet.
Guest:Sometimes I would headline and that would be a 20 minute spot.
Guest:But the only time I ran it was the night before at a bar with 12 people.
Marc:That's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was the only time I ran it.
Guest:And I have never, and some of it on the special is brand new that I added two jokes the night before that I said, I'm going to, let me just add, but I had so much material and I just did what I wanted to do.
Guest:And I was so nervous that I had to just lean into being nervous.
Guest:And I just knew you're going to be nervous.
Guest:This is what it is.
Guest:It's like when something sucks and people go, how do I get to it?
Marc:It's funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was one take.
Guest:I remember there was another guy.
Guest:It was one show.
Marc:Usually you get two.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Usually you get two.
Guest:The other guy got two.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But he was more established than me.
Marc:Who was the other guy?
Marc:All right.
Marc:And so what happens then?
Marc:So you, do you have desire?
Marc:It seems like between writing and doing the standup, do you want to tour?
Guest:Well, here's the whole thing.
Guest:People always ask me, what do you like more writing standup?
Guest:To me, it's, they're, they're different hats.
Guest:You know, it's, it's like, I feel grateful that I have so many avenues to put shit.
Guest:So like, let's say you have an idea.
Guest:Sometimes it's just a tweet.
Guest:Sometimes you have an idea.
Guest:It's a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's for Stan.
Guest:Sometimes I have an idea.
Guest:It's a script.
Guest:Sometimes I have an idea.
Guest:It's a feature.
Guest:Sometimes I have an idea.
Guest:It's for kids.
Guest:It's animated.
Guest:It's some shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I have now, I feel more confident in all these areas.
Guest:I don't have to lose an idea.
Guest:I get to do it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:One way or the other.
Marc:I get to put it somewhere.
Guest:So for me, what do I like more?
Guest:Stand-up writing.
Marc:I didn't ask you that.
Marc:I just asked.
Guest:If I do stand-up the night before.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:In the room.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I feel 10 times sharper the next day in the writer's room.
Marc:Well, I think it just, what I'm asking is, is that, are you building an audience?
Marc:Do you go out and do it?
Guest:Yeah, I'm doing it, but it's also very word of mouth.
Guest:Like I'm not 100% just building Robbie Hoffman shows.
Guest:I'm still on bills with other people, but I'm doing it all the time.
Guest:So I guess indirectly I'm building an audience.
Guest:Listen, I'm not somebody, I don't post online.
Guest:I don't, I'm not,
Marc:But do you open for people or any of that?
Guest:I barely got some... I got a couple opens.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:No, I wasn't really asked to open.
Guest:There's a few people that I opened for.
Guest:I opened for Rebecca Kohler.
Guest:I opened for Dulce Sloan.
Guest:There's a few people that I was opening for that were...
Guest:you know, coming up too.
Guest:But no, I never had like a big, but I was always killing to say it.
Guest:Like not to be, but whatever.
Marc:But your drive is not to be like, you know, I want to be like a touring comic.
Yeah.
Marc:I want to be like a theater act.
Guest:I'd love to do arenas and theaters.
Marc:Arenas, big.
Guest:I want to do arenas.
Guest:I'm in the mood.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I'm very much in the mood.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I want that loudness.
Guest:I want the wide stage.
Marc:Do you have a booking agent?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:So now we're doing, like, I just did my first little theater tour.
Guest:I brought it home to Toronto.
Guest:But it's all been, like, slow and steady wins the race.
Guest:So, yes, I'm building an audience, but I just, like...
Guest:Just, I don't even know how, almost unintentionally, just by doing it all the time.
Guest:I'm not really thinking so much of what you have to do.
Guest:I'm just doing it.
Guest:So the same thing with the online.
Guest:I'm not on TikTok, except I am on TikTok.
Guest:People throw me on TikTok.
Guest:And so that brings people.
Guest:You know, I'm just...
Guest:That's just not what I do.
Guest:Now, I have friends who make a lot of money with clips and stuff like that, and that's their business, and I respect them for it.
Guest:It's just not my, I do stand-up writing and acting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How does your mom feel about everything?
Guest:She's very proud, and she's wonderful.
Guest:She clips things, and she, you know, she'll be like, Shalom had the TV on, and I said, Robbie, I said, Robbie, and then he put it in, it was Robbie Hoffman, that's my daughter, and he put it on for me.
Guest:And she and she put on for he put on for her my Netflix set, which like.
Marc:What did you do for them?
Guest:I did 15 minutes for Netflix.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, because it's the kind of thing like late night.
Guest:We're always getting like calls.
Guest:They're like, oh, you know, like, could you like the guy at Fallon, the guy at Seth Meyers.
Guest:And I love, you know, I love Seth Meyers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Could you do a set or whatever like this and do this?
Guest:And I'm like.
Guest:I'm always meaning to get it on tape and sometimes it never quite happens.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't know if it's going to happen.
Marc:It doesn't have the impact.
Guest:And if it did have the impact, I would make.
Guest:But I'm like, and then Netflix calls.
Guest:No.
Guest:I'm like, great.
Guest:This is my.
Guest:This makes sense for me.
Guest:This is my first American late night set.
Marc:And it was on a showcase thing?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was Netflix verified.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I am first up on the second episode.
Guest:And it was really good.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:It was really fun.
Guest:People had all the people there.
Guest:People had like, you know, this is the first time on Netflix.
Guest:We were in New York.
Guest:Just so fun.
Guest:And people, their family there, different things.
Guest:And I had my friend Natalie from town.
Guest:Like, Natalie, will you come?
Yeah.
Guest:yeah and they're like people in the green room so many people i'm like it's just natalie i'll bring my family yeah my family's fucking like now i let my family go crazy how many at a time well it's like my brother shmully came to my first just the last thing yeah when i'm doing four minutes you're there sure yeah and he's like oh jeff ross can you get a picture with me i'm like i'm not even there yet
Guest:First of all, my brother Levy called me.
Guest:He goes, can I get 16 tickets?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:16?
Guest:He's like, I want to bring my team at work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, 16 tickets is an insane amount of tickets to ask.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm opening before the opener.
Guest:When they're filling the seats, I'm doing four minutes.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:It's ridiculous.
Guest:No.
Guest:So I said, no, but my brother comes.
Guest:He goes, he has a million pictures.
Guest:Just pointing with everyone.
Guest:Now I brought my little sister Dvorah to, I think I saw you at the Largo.
Guest:It was like Jacqueline's release party or something.
Guest:And Jacqueline was so great on your podcast too.
Guest:But, um,
Guest:And I told him, as I said, do you want to come to something Hollywood?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because nothing good happens to people.
Guest:She's a social worker.
Guest:She's working crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I go, you get to take pictures with three.
Guest:Save them.
Guest:Whoever three people you like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Go right the fuck up to them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She goes up to the guy from Brett Goldstein.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:From Ted Lasso.
Guest:Ted Lasso thinks he's so hot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Boom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Chris Rock.
Guest:I'm like, all right.
Guest:I wish it wasn't so big.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Click.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I let them.
Guest:It's just like...
Guest:What do I care?
Guest:I'd rather my sister be happy than these people.
Guest:I don't give a shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, let her be excited.
Guest:Yeah, somebody's famous here.
Guest:Because then she calls home, do you know who I saw?
Guest:Do you know?
Guest:It's like, that's the joy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, good.
Guest:So I've come around on it.
Guest:It used to embarrass me, but now I let them have fun.
Marc:So now you're just doing stand-up mostly?
Guest:I do a ton of stand-up.
Guest:I'm acting.
Guest:I have something coming out.
Guest:I got a big part in an FX thing coming out in the new year.
Guest:Then I just got something else that I can't talk about.
Guest:It feels very nice to say I can't talk about something.
Guest:It's also like a little bit of a... And writing is going, you know, God willing.
Guest:And a ton of stand-up.
Guest:And I got my podcast, Too Far Pod.
Guest:Too far.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's coming back November.
Guest:We're not very consistent with it.
Guest:What's the angle?
Guest:So it's me and my buddy Rachel.
Guest:She's, you know, the angle is just nothing.
Guest:We're just talking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But she's very afraid I'm going to get her canceled and all this stuff.
Guest:So I don't know if we'll come back together or if I'll do it Patreon.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:There's nothing I say that's so crazy, but.
Marc:Makes her nervous.
Guest:You know, to certain people, I can make people nervous.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, I didn't feel nervous.
Marc:It was good talking to you.
Guest:I was very over the top, though.
Marc:When?
Guest:The whole time.
Marc:Is there another frequency you want to do?
Guest:There is another frequency, but it'll take you after.
Guest:So we've gone through this.
Guest:You'll see I'll calm down over time now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, how's your relationship going?
Guest:Unbelievable.
Guest:Madly in love.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You've got to be madly in love, guys.
Marc:I saw press on that.
Marc:It seems like a very exciting thing.
Guest:It's just we love to hang out and chill.
Guest:And, you know, I'm not, you know, the first thing, the only time my father has mentioned me being gay, I got an email from him that he heard I was gay or whatever.
Guest:And he says, promiscuous behavior, not befitting a daughter of Israel.
Guest:And I felt like promiscuous, like I'm.
Guest:if anything, a serial monogamous.
Guest:I've only been, you know, I'm really not that slutty.
Guest:I'm not that promiscuous.
Guest:I'm with one person type of person.
Guest:I'm never online dating and I don't do one night stands.
Guest:But not befitting a daughter of Israel, I'll give you that.
Guest:Like, I'm like, okay.
Marc:I'll take it.
Marc:They should name your next special then.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Nice talking to you.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:I love her.
Marc:Don't you love her?
Marc:All her stuff is on her Instagram page and at RobbieHoffman.com.
Marc:Hang out for a minute, folks.
Marc:Hey, listen, for Full Marin listeners, we posted a collection of great behind-the-scenes movie stories from some amazing past WTF guests, including Mel Brooks, my co-star on this film, Michael Keaton, Mike Myers, and this story from Nick Cave about his concept for Gladiator 2.
Marc:When you did something like that, what did you bring to that?
Marc:I mean, what was the story for the second Gladiator?
Guest:Well, that's where it all went wrong.
Guest:You know, very briefly, it was Russell Crowe Wake, because I'm like, hey, Russell, didn't you die in Gladiator 1?
Guest:He's going, yeah, you sort that out.
Guest:All right, so he goes to purgatory and is sent down by the gods who are dying in heaven because there's this one god, there's this Christ character down on earth.
Yeah.
Guest:who is gaining popularity, and so the many gods are dying, and so they send Gladiator back to kill Christ and all his followers.
Guest:And so this was already getting in.
Guest:I wanted to call it Christ killer.
Guest:LAUGHTER
Guest:And in the end, you find out that the main guy was his son.
Guest:So he has to kill his son and he's tricked by the gods and all of this sort of stuff.
Guest:So it ends with this, he becomes this eternal warrior and it ends with this 20 minute war sequence that follows all the wars of history right up to Vietnam and that sort of stuff.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:And it was, it was wild to get bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Marin and just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus.
Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by a cast.
Marc:And I don't, I don't think we're going to do any guitar, no guitar today.
Marc:Just here.
Marc:I'll give you something else.
Guest:Fuck.
Guest:Fuck.
Guest:Fuck!
Guest:You fucks!
Guest:Fuck this shit!
Guest:Fucking fuckers!
Guest:Fuck!
Guest:Fuck it!
Guest:God fucking damn!
Guest:Are you fucking kidding me?
Guest:Fuck!
Guest:Fuck!
Guest:Fuck!
Marc:Boomer lives!
Marc:Monkey, LaFonda, cat angels everywhere.