Episode 158 - Tom Rhodes
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Marc:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fuckners?
Marc:What the fuckannots?
Marc:Whatever you want to be called, do you there?
Marc:There?
Marc:Come on, talk.
Marc:I'm in my hotel room.
Marc:It's been a rough South by Southwest.
Marc:Well, not that rough, but I just end up staying up late, talking to comics.
Marc:I'm here in Austin, Texas.
Marc:I'm here to do a live show and do a few stand-up shows at the huge interactive festival and music festival that is South by Southwest.
Marc:And I'll be honest with you, I'm learning something about myself.
Marc:I'm learning.
Marc:Well, I actually knew this.
Marc:I do not like waiting online.
Marc:I do not like standing in crowds.
Marc:I don't like going to shows that are too crowded.
Marc:I don't like parties that are really crowded.
Marc:I don't like waiting to get online to just about anything.
Marc:And it's not because I hate people.
Marc:It's just I'm too anxious to fucking deal with it.
Marc:And then once I get inside, I don't even know what I'm doing there.
Marc:So ultimately I just end up hanging out with friends and not doing much of anything, but that's all right.
Marc:I don't understand a lot of interactive things.
Marc:I know there's a lot of big business going on that has to do with numbers of people downloading things and how many people you can get their eyes on something and big ideas about social networking.
Marc:I did a panel about social networking in comedy.
Marc:I have no idea.
Marc:I barely know how to upload this show.
Marc:I just I don't have a clue.
Marc:I was asked about my podcast and its relationship to technology.
Marc:And I told them that, well, I put I do it in my garage.
Marc:I have two locks on the garage door, both of them master locks that I need a key to get into.
Marc:And I just I hope that if somebody wanted to break into the garage, that that would be too many locks.
Marc:that they'd be like, oh, fuck, there's two of them.
Marc:And that's the technology I'm familiar with.
Marc:Obviously, I know a little more than that.
Marc:I am recording this in my hotel room.
Marc:I am packed with barbecue.
Marc:There's some part of me that thinks that if I'm away from home, I can eat whatever the fuck I want, that it's some sort of different planet, that it's okay for me to do this.
Marc:And it's not.
Marc:I'm in the room.
Marc:I'm sweating meat.
Marc:I'm not happy about it, but it was fucking great, man.
Marc:I mean, it was seriously awesome.
Marc:I'm just happy I'm not going to be here during the music festival because then it just becomes a parade of drunkenness I cannot handle.
Marc:What else do I want to tell you?
Marc:I'm a big fan of the show Mad Men.
Marc:And I always heard that Jon Hamm was a big comedy guy, that he hung out at comedy clubs, he enjoyed comedy.
Marc:I never met him.
Marc:So part of me was thinking like, well, does he know me?
Marc:Because I know him.
Marc:I watch him on television.
Marc:Does he know me?
Marc:So that was sort of in the back of my brain somewhere.
Marc:And I went to this little bar with a few other comics and I'm walking out and Eugene Merman's walking in with a few dudes.
Marc:Some dude walks up to me and says, wow, I've been listening.
Marc:I listened to you the entire flight over here.
Marc:And I look up, it's Jon Hamm.
Marc:And I said, oh, well, thanks, man.
Marc:He goes, yeah, I love the show.
Marc:And I'm just trying to act cool, you know, because in my mind, I'm thinking like, oh, it's a guy from the fuck, man.
Marc:Jon Hamm, Don Draper.
Marc:Are you fucking kidding me?
Marc:But I said, well, that's cool, man.
Marc:Would you have any interest in maybe doing the show?
Marc:He's like, yeah, I'd love to do the show.
Marc:And in my mind, I'm going, oh, shit.
Marc:I'm talking to fucking Jon Hamm.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:This is incredible.
Marc:But I said, oh, well, maybe we could work that out.
Marc:I'd love to have you come over and we'll talk.
Marc:And he's like, yeah, let's work it out.
Marc:All right.
Marc:See you later, man.
Marc:And then I went outside the bar and I jumped up and down and did some sort of silly dance.
Marc:Because that's how I maintain my cool is that it's fine to act cool, but you've got to experience the excitement somewhere because quite honestly, internalized excitement can cause cancer.
Marc:It's a little bit funner cancer than internalized anger, but it is cancer nonetheless.
Marc:So please, if I can say anything to you today, don't internalize your excitement.
Marc:Try to get it out somewhere.
Marc:If it's not appropriate to be excited in the moment that you're involved in that is causing the excitement and you're forced to compress your excitement into some semblance of keeping your shit together or being cool,
Marc:That's fine, but make sure you take a little time aside to run around, jump up and down, go, I can't fucking believe it, and maybe say that out loud so other people look at you, and then you get to experience displaced excitement followed by slight embarrassment.
Marc:But those things are freeing.
Marc:I'm just saying that if you don't experience your excitement in the moment, don't internalize it.
Marc:Cancerous.
Marc:and externalize it in public because then it's embarrassing and then you get to have your excitement in an appropriate way but also feel the humility of uh of being embarrassed which i i think is a great combination excitement followed by embarrassment um
Marc:Yeah, that's happened to many of us, I think, in our sex lives, probably.
Marc:But that's natural, too.
Marc:That's what keeps us human, being embarrassed and being excited inappropriately.
Marc:Is that enough?
Marc:Was that any wisdom that I just improvised?
Marc:Could that work?
Marc:Today's show, Tom Rhodes, dear friend of mine.
Marc:I've known him for years.
Marc:Great comedian.
Marc:Definitely a journeyman comic to the point where it was rumored that Tom did not have a place to live voluntarily living in his car as he he peddled his jokes across this great country of ours.
Marc:But also he he does a lot of international work.
Marc:Tom is an international comic and he's got some interesting stories.
Marc:So let's go to the garage now.
Marc:I will be busy here digesting barbecue and digesting the fact that Jon Hamm is a fan of my show.
Marc:Am I being uncool right now?
Marc:Why am I so available, dude?
Marc:Tom Rhodes in the garage.
Marc:You got a lot going on, Mark.
Guest:No, but I mean... You're in a heavy conference call when I get over.
Guest:Is this just for show?
Guest:So I think you got a lot going on in your career?
Marc:Yeah, that's all I want to do is teach you a fucking lesson, Rhodes.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Because I remember.
Guest:Oh, it's Conan is calling again.
Guest:They want to go over the set.
Marc:Let me refresh your memory.
Marc:Mark Maron, New York City, probably 1995, 96, trying to get by with this woman I'm living with, living down on 16th Street, 3rd Avenue.
Marc:It was a nice place.
Marc:I've been hosting a show, but I wasn't hosting then.
Marc:Rhodes pops into town.
Marc:On the wave of Mr. Rhodes...
Marc:not if it was 95 that came on in 96 so that was right before yeah oh maybe all right maybe it was just when it's starting okay and you're like you come over you like uh you got any weed man i'm like i don't get it mr rhodes doesn't have any weed i think mr rhodes it has some good weed and then we said yeah you were fun back then mark oh
Marc:Then we sat down and talked, and you were telling me how great everything was.
Guest:You remember that?
Guest:Yeah, things were okay.
Guest:It must have been the two-month window.
Guest:Things were going good.
Guest:The two-month window before panic set in.
Guest:But you're alive, dude.
Guest:I'm alive.
Guest:What?
Guest:So what, do you want to jump in and talk about the sitcom?
Guest:What do you want to talk about?
Guest:No, no, I don't want to jump in and talk about the sitcom.
Guest:Me neither.
Marc:It's great to see you.
Marc:It's like, you know, hey, let's talk to the rape victim about the rape.
Marc:Well, no, but there's a part of it.
Marc:It's just what's interesting to me was that...
Marc:is that, you know, we all go through shit, and I've never known anyone to stop.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, I've known a lot of cats that have, you know, had successes.
Marc:We've all had good jobs.
Marc:You know, some of us have had deals.
Marc:Some of us have this.
Marc:Some of us have had larger failures than others.
Marc:But, you know, there's really nothing you can do but go back to the fucking crawl back up on stage and go, how's everybody doing tonight?
Guest:Yeah, but as I crawl back, it's like you gave it up.
Guest:I always hated comics that something big happens for them, and then they give up stand-up because it never meant anything.
Marc:to them do they but who did that did someone do that i'm not mentioning any names but i know but it's what i mean i never stopped doing stand-up i know and the sitcom was like six months of my life you know it's amazing you know how much that affected me when you think about it wasn't that much time but the thing that fascinates me about you is um you're the kind of guy there's people in this business i've known for fucking 20 years we could tell the story about the cocaine later um
Marc:I met you in San Francisco.
Marc:You're originally from Florida, right?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And you were like... You had your long hair and you had your shtick.
Marc:You had a definite way of doing things.
Marc:You had your own style.
Marc:And you had great jokes.
Marc:And you were definitely a force to be reckoned with.
Marc:And then there was a period there where it's like, where's Tom?
Marc:And everyone's like, I don't know, man.
Marc:I think he might be... I think he's doing a TV show on the moon.
Marc:Or I think he's in... I think Tom's in Vietnam.
Marc:But I remember like...
Guest:You were in Vietnam, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:When Comedy Central started, I was like their dude, their poster boy.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I was jealous of you.
Guest:And it was so great because they were starting out.
Guest:They didn't have these signature shows like South Park and Politically Incorrect yet and The Daily Show.
Guest:So it was really like being a junior filmmaker.
Guest:I could do whatever I wanted.
Guest:They loved me.
Guest:right and um vietnam had just opened up and my father had served there uh had been shot down in a helicopter and saved a guy's life whatever so whatever that's pretty big it was huge so i wanted to it just opened up for americans to travel there right and i said what about going to vietnam and having fun for all the guys who didn't get to have fun and they thought it was a highly promotable or a healthier kind of fun
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I did some really cool things.
Guest:Like I did the we we had to run a cable like two blocks to set up these TVs in a park.
Guest:And we got in Hanoi, we got these women to do the Jane Fonda workout tape.
Guest:They were doing like the the Tai Chi.
Guest:And so we set up these TVs and they they're doing the Jane Fonda workout tape.
Marc:It was like it.
Marc:they loved it right you were kind of like at that time because i was at comedy central i think around that time or a little after yeah you were hosting uh short attendance man theater yeah and i was actually jealous of you because they were kind of using you to brand the thing like you like how dennis leary did mtv they were kind of using you to do these short 30 you know those 30 second pieces yeah that that were image pieces and i was like i want a fucking image piece where's my image piece i was such a little bitch and they gave me one but i think see squeaky wheel gets the grease
Marc:I was quite a squeaky wheel.
Marc:I should call my entire first half of my career that.
Marc:But you went to Vietnam.
Marc:But the part that interests me is that you're always a big comic and doing a lot of work on the road and stuff.
Marc:But you literally were the only guy I knew.
Marc:Going abroad always scared me, but you literally moved to fucking Amsterdam.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I think you would be adored worldwide.
Guest:It's getting better.
Guest:It's my own problem.
Guest:I assume they're not going to like me.
Guest:The world will not like me.
Guest:I know.
Guest:But yeah, and a lot of people ask me how I did it.
Guest:London is the key to everything.
Guest:Once you crack London, it leads to all these other gigs in Europe.
Guest:And I got in with the Comedy Store in London, which I still think is the...
Guest:The highest euphoria you could feel above sex and drugs to stand there flat footed, gripping the microphone and just rip the balls off the place.
Guest:And, you know, these tours in Asia and all over the world are all booked out of London.
Marc:When you made that decision, though, where were you were you done with the U.S.?
Marc:Not as a country.
Marc:Obviously, you're a good American and whatnot.
Marc:But I mean, had you felt like, you know, I dried up here?
Guest:No, it was it's, you know, I'll have to explain a few series of events that happened.
Guest:We got to go back way back.
Guest:Let's do it.
Guest:When I was 20, I moved in New York City.
Guest:You're living down by Wall Street.
Guest:I was living.
Guest:No, no, no, no, no.
Guest:That was the second time.
Guest:That was the second time.
Guest:When I was 20, I moved to New York and I lived there.
Guest:It was the worst year of my life.
Guest:I lived in Washington Heights like a dog.
Guest:And I always swore that if I ever had any money, I would, you know, move back to New York with style.
Guest:So anyway, I moved to San Francisco, you know, early 20s.
Guest:That's when we met.
Guest:And then, you know, I got hot after a while.
Guest:And after the Comedy Central stuff, I got the sitcom.
Guest:Mr. Rhodes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So...
Guest:All these things happened.
Guest:The show was a disappointment.
Guest:It started out good.
Marc:But wasn't it one of those things, like, you know, I'm not going to pry or interrupt, but I mean, like, because I knew you pretty well.
Marc:And, you know, we'd spent time together.
Marc:We were in the same crew, and, you know, we'd hung out.
Marc:And then there was this, like, it was one of those situations where the network said, you know, I can see what this guy is.
Marc:And they gave you the fish out of water show.
Marc:You're Mr. Rowe.
Guest:Note to comedians, fish out of water die.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If anyone says, hey, I've got a fish out of water thing for you, just remember that.
Guest:Fish need water.
Marc:But I felt my heart went out to you, even above my jealousy of you at the time, which was you got laid with that thing.
Marc:That happens sometimes.
Marc:It's like, well, he can't carry the show.
Marc:So there you were.
Marc:You shot all these shows.
Marc:You were with the kids.
Guest:Well, I should have stuck to my guns.
Guest:My original idea was I wanted to be a public defender lawyer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The voice of the voiceless.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I thought it would be like Barney Miller where the dregs of society and then lots of reoccurring guest characters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So somewhere in the development process, NBC said, we just had a lawyer show fail.
Guest:Can you make Tom a teacher?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:in retrospect we've never done that same year there was like four or five teacher shows somebody knew right so i was screwed for not sticking with my guns but um after the episode three it became all about the kids right so you were barely in it you're like yeah i felt like the second banana on my own show it was just all these bad hair jokes because i had long hey fabio and you need some cream rinse now was that now was that just killing you
Guest:It was killing me, yeah.
Guest:And I made a truckload of money, and I'm living in the Hollywood Hills with this beautiful actress, and all we did was walk around naked drinking wine from goblets.
Guest:Did you really?
Guest:But the show, pretty much, yeah.
Guest:The show ended, and then me and the actress started having problems.
Guest:Breaking goblets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:It was weird.
Guest:I don't know how much to divulge to the world who's listening.
Guest:Go ahead.
Marc:I mean, it's old news.
Guest:It is old news.
Guest:So the show ended and then whatever.
Guest:Actress girl, we break up and we're having problems.
Guest:She got pregnant.
Guest:I asked her to have the kid.
Guest:She ended up aborting it.
Guest:That kind of fucked me up more than the sitcom.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I had all this money, and I was angry at humanity, and I moved to New York City.
Guest:I remember.
Guest:And I got a rock star apartment in the Wall Street area.
Guest:Yeah, it was nice.
Guest:It was fantastic.
Guest:I was three blocks in the World Trade Center, right at the entrance of Wall Street.
Guest:And I was partying so hard when I lived in New York that I actually moved to Amsterdam to bring it down a notch.
Marc:I gotta just stick with pot.
Guest:So...
Guest:I started, you know, that's the time I started going over to London and I started doing these other gigs.
Marc:So it was actually for self-preservation.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And so I started doing gigs in Holland and I fell in love with a Dutch girl.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she was from like a little town in the north of Holland and made me love life again and laugh again.
Guest:And I said, fuck America, I'm moving to Holland.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I was doing the European circuits a lot, still coming over here to my favorite clubs.
Guest:And that's basically how it happened.
Guest:But that relationship didn't work out.
Guest:And then these people saw me in a club and they offered me a late night talk show.
Guest:In Holland?
Guest:In Amsterdam.
Guest:Now, weren't you a little apprehensive?
Guest:Were you like, but I don't speak, I mean.
Guest:No, are you kidding?
Guest:I was like, oh my God, let's go for it.
Guest:Because I grew up watching Carson.
Guest:And to be the guy coming out from behind the curtain in the $2,000, $3,000 suit, standing on the X, doing the five minute monologue.
Guest:I couldn't believe I was doing that.
Marc:But it was in Holland.
Marc:In Holland.
Marc:I imagine dealing with Dutch celebrities.
Guest:It was all Dutch celebrities mostly, and I didn't know who they were, and that was kind of where the humor was, is that I was unimpressed with their, you know.
Guest:You're showing clips from movies.
Guest:And it was really kind of a dollhouse version of American showbiz, because everybody was explaining to me, okay, this is the Howard Stern of Holland.
Guest:This is the Pamela Anderson of Holland.
Marc:But they're all a lot nicer, I imagine, than the actual American personalities.
Guest:Yeah, some some weren't, you know, I mean, and this was a nightly show.
Guest:No, it was on once a week.
Guest:OK.
Guest:And the first year was a little clunky because nobody starts out a good interviewer.
Guest:And you got to remember when you're hosting a show, you got to keep throwing it back to camera one.
Guest:to talk to the people at home like as a comedian you work the audience and it feels natural when you look people in the eyes words come out of your mouth naturally when you look people in the face so television hosting a show is the opposite you got to focus on this black hole on camera one so in order to let me remember that they let me I cut out Muhammad Ali's head and put it above no you didn't I did I had a little cut out of his head above camera one so you were talking I would always look over the first season I was talking to Muhammad Ali
Guest:Does anyone know that?
Guest:Only the people that worked on the show.
Marc:So you didn't open every monologue like, you're the champ.
Marc:You're the champ.
Guest:Ali Bumaye.
Guest:Ali Bumaye.
Guest:But it was good.
Guest:My favorite aspect of the show was every episode I got to make a five minute film where I would experience something of Dutch culture.
Guest:Like one day I spent with a Dutch farmer and I walked into an electric fence.
Guest:He said, look out for the electric fence in Dutch.
Guest:I don't speak Dutch.
Guest:I got electrocuted.
Guest:And when it's real, it's funny.
Guest:Did you really get electrocuted?
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:They're like shit.
Guest:Was it on camera?
Guest:No, it was on camera.
Guest:They got it all.
Guest:Yeah, I'm wearing wooden shoes.
Guest:Did you pee yourself or anything?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:It wasn't that bad.
Guest:But I got to cover the prime minister debates.
Guest:You know, like I couldn't meet the governor of my own state in the United States.
Guest:And here I'm talking to the prime minister in Holland.
Guest:So essentially you got this education.
Guest:Yeah, and I had this magic passport to the Netherlands.
Guest:I think even a lot of Dutch people don't get to experience all these things that I got to experience.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's fucking awesome.
Guest:So you did that for how many years?
Guest:A year?
Guest:I did that for three seasons.
Guest:And then the same network let me be a presenter on a travel program.
Guest:And you did that for a season?
Guest:Yeah, so I was on TV for three years in Holland.
Marc:Now, when you go back to Holland now, are people like, oh, Rhodes?
Guest:Those people, they don't freak out.
Guest:I mean, I saw Lenny Kravitz walking down the street once in Holland, and people were like, hey, they don't give a shit.
Marc:They don't care.
Marc:Well, people here try not to, except for Donnie.
Guest:Well, I guess his last couple of records weren't that good, maybe.
Marc:I could have used that better.
Marc:Seems like Ben Harper has now stepped in to fill the void.
Marc:I saw Ben Harper in Rome last year.
Guest:Were they just running up to him?
Guest:Well, I mean, I saw him in a concert.
Marc:It was for Earth Day.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:He's pretty good.
Marc:He's amazing.
Marc:There's a couple Lenny Kravitz songs I listen to still.
Marc:I actually listened to one yesterday, believe it or not.
Marc:I mean, he had some good hooks.
Guest:He did.
Marc:I liked Lenny.
Marc:Love Rule was a good song.
Guest:That whole album was fantastic.
Guest:It was.
Guest:Mr. Cab Driver, fuck you.
Guest:I'm a survivor.
Marc:And fly away.
Marc:I like great Yeah, I'm a sucker for like that kind of three-chord fucking big dick rock and roll.
Marc:Yeah, I like it dude I do I do credit you for saying it probably two or three of the most profound things in the world that like there I mean I you and I've been around a long time We've been a lot of places, but I remember that there are there are stories I tell about you that I still tell that the That the one
Marc:that I really loved was, you know, we had had a conversation at the Aspen Comedy Festival in 1995.
Marc:I mean, it was a long time ago.
Marc:What a memory you have.
Marc:And it's okay.
Marc:It's selective, but it's okay.
Marc:But I remember, you know, you were a known item and I was like, you know, I was there on Comedy Central's dime, you know, sticking mics in people's faces, which to me was, you know, I did it and I can do it, but I felt it to be humiliating because not unlike you, I'm like, dude, I got a voice, man.
Marc:I mean something.
Marc:And I'm like,
Marc:Oh, there's Dick Cavett.
Marc:Go talk to Dick Cavett, which would Dick Cavett was a good one.
Marc:But when I had to talk to who was some other examples?
Marc:Well, I had I did a stick with Carrot Top, whatever.
Marc:You know what I'm saying?
Marc:It's beginning of my career.
Marc:And, you know, and they gave me sets, you know, and you and I had a conversation about you being a Christian, you know, and and I don't know how that conversation came about.
Marc:But knowing me, it was probably, you know, aggressive and whatever the fuck it was.
Marc:But I remember... No, because we were always friends.
Marc:We've been friends for years at that point, and you always gave me shit about... Being a Christian.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't do that anymore.
Marc:But I haven't taken Christ into my heart, but I understand it.
Marc:So what happened was...
Marc:Part for the chorus, I was freaking out before I went on stage.
Marc:You know, Kathy Griffin had gone on, and she had taken her shirt off, and I was mad about that, even though she said it was just, you know, it was for the joke.
Marc:It was a joke about that thing.
Marc:You know, I just saw it.
Marc:It was like, you got to take your tits out, and I was aggravated.
Marc:And for some reason, I go up to you, and I was freaking out, and I'm like, I think I said something along the lines of, like, this is going to suck.
Marc:And then I said to you, I said, but I guess it would be different if I had Jesus on my side.
Marc:Now I remember that.
Guest:Right, and they...
Guest:That's hilarious.
Guest:I totally remember that.
Guest:But then you looked at me and he said the most brilliant thing.
Guest:You go, you do.
Guest:That's hilarious.
Guest:He's there for everybody, man.
Guest:That was a good one.
Guest:That was a great Tom Rhodes.
Guest:I was a little more earnest then.
Guest:I think, you know, I mean, I've certainly.
Marc:But then there was the other thing you said that I actually told you was one of the best.
Guest:I mean, I'm not like some lunatic, you know.
Guest:No.
Marc:No, I mean, you just believe in Jesus.
Marc:I mean, you know, you're brought up with it and you believe it.
Marc:I mean, it's not unusual.
Guest:I don't believe all the weird shit and the Jonah and the whale and all that ignorant shit.
Guest:I think there was a cool guy named Jesus.
Marc:You're not a literalist.
Marc:You believe in the idea of Christ.
Marc:There's nothing wrong with that.
Marc:But then the other thing you said to me, which was that I told you at that time, it was years ago, where you told me that, like, hell was invented to make stupid people like Christ.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I have to... And I thank you for that forever because...
Guest:I said that was a line that I had written.
Guest:And it was one of those things like when you do a line and you love it and it just fails every time you finally give up on it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The joke never worked.
Guest:And you always like there was a period when I'd see it for a couple of years.
Guest:You still doing that line?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You still doing that line?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I dropped it.
Guest:And so from your encouragement, I brought it back.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that is it.
Guest:And that is how I feel.
Guest:I think hell was a concept.
Guest:How does it work?
Guest:to get dumb people to act right yeah how's it work now at least that's what i'm counting yeah that's so you tagged it and how's it work well it's good i you know i did it on my last special and i don't do it anymore but it was good right it killed yeah yeah i mean it's a brilliant line and i have to thank you for telling me to stick with it i'm glad i did and then the other moment of course is the uh the classic moment of uh
Marc:was that night where I got all that Coke and I'm like, you know, I fucking dragged you out to do some Coke.
Marc:And we're sitting there in that park over by your house.
Marc:I dragged you out of your house to do Coke with me.
Marc:And then like, you know, literally we get out to the park and the sun's about to come up and I'm like, you know, a half hour in, I'm like, I gotta go home.
Guest:It's a classic story, man.
Guest:And it's funny because I knew we were going to talk about this today.
Guest:And I haven't told the story in years.
Guest:How do you tell it?
Guest:Because, you know, you've cleaned up.
Guest:You've done really well for yourself.
Guest:You know, if you'd have just remained, you know, fuck up guy, it would have been, you know, oh, yeah, that's when the guy lost.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But...
Guest:You pulled yourself out of the hole.
Guest:We're living in San Francisco, and I have to paint the picture.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it was one of the happiest times of my life.
Guest:I didn't do cocaine, really, until that period after the sitcom when I moved to New York, and that's when I was riding off the rails on the crazy train.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and uh did shit that i thought i would never do yeah uh just like you know tons of blow or whatever but in that period when i moved to san francisco i was like with the greatest love of my young adult life she was great natalie yeah we both had wonderful women then yeah and uh she was from paris she was french and i'm living with her
Guest:Worked for the airline or something?
Guest:No, she was like a concierge.
Guest:Oh, concierge.
Guest:And a wonderful person.
Guest:I lived on Alamo Square Park.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Beautiful apartment with bay windows looking over the park.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:And you and I were, you know, we hadn't been friends that long, maybe like a year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you were still partying hardcore.
Guest:And you come over to my house and you're like, dude, you got to come and talk to me.
Guest:You got to come.
Guest:And I'm like, come on up.
Guest:mark my girl will make some tea yeah yeah we'll sit at the kitchen table and you're like no fuck that man come on you gotta come outside you gotta come outside you were just you were a wreck and you're all sweaty and nervous and you didn't have coke you had um it was like crank oh speed like this nasty trucker yeah gunk speed predecessor to you know whatever's now yeah yeah
Guest:The cleaner stuff.
Guest:Yeah, it was definitely made of products because cocaine isn't yellow and smell like gasoline.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:According to the guidebook.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I come out and we sit on the Alamo Square Park is so beautiful in San Francisco.
Guest:And we're looking out on the city.
Guest:Have we done the improv that night?
Guest:I think we had worked together.
Guest:But you came over to my house because it was a surprise that you came over.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because you came over, you know, like a dude seeking shelter in a storm.
Marc:Yeah, because I never, like, I was not a speed guy.
Marc:And I remember there was, like, one or two weeks there where somehow I got hold of something.
Marc:I remember doing, like, not being able to sleep and then doing a spot at the improv.
Marc:And you know when you're, like, gacked up?
Marc:Like, you're wide open.
Marc:You've got no emotional control or anything.
Marc:And you're just like, ah!
Marc:And I just remember, like, fucking making a horrible ass of myself on stage with it.
Marc:And then I think I came over to your house.
Guest:You came to my house.
Guest:And so you're like, you got to come out and talk to me.
Guest:And so we go out and we sit in Alamo Square Park and we sat there for hours.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm talking to you and, you know, you're even sober.
Guest:You know, you can be somewhat of a handful, but it's you on cheap trucker crank.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Was like so much.
Guest:And I'm, you know, and I'm just being, you know, the good friend for you.
Guest:And you keep going, come on, Rhodes, just do a little bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just do a little bit.
Guest:And I'm like, no, man, I don't, you know, I'm going to go sleep next to my girl in a little bit.
Guest:No, I don't, you know, I don't want to do it.
Guest:and so like the whole night you're going come on just a little bit just a little bit and then finally after we sat there for a couple hours um you broke me down and i finally went okay i'll do a little bit and i i do a little of this nasty trucker speed that just exploded on the top of my nostrils into my brain and then you know like it was it was like the perfect comedy beat and you go all right man i gotta go
Guest:and you fucking left me so there now i am all sweaty and nervous sitting in the park in san francisco by myself and i don't have a friend to talk to after i was there with you for hours and then the next time i saw you and it's the classic line that i told you that's right yeah that's right i said uh i said you know mark you're the kind of guy if you were drowning and somebody swam out to save you instead of letting them save you you would pull them down with you
Guest:And for some reason, I've repeated that line as a fairly valid description of who I was at that time.
Guest:That's who you were at the time.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:I have to say, you did the sweetest gesture, and this is the Marc Maron pendulum of selfishness to niceness.
Guest:You brought... Because we both loved the blues, and we really identified with guitar player gods and things.
Guest:You brought me, and I still have it, this VHS...
Guest:video of lightning hopkins who was because he was my favorite blues guy of all time still is and it was like i don't know where it was recorded it's like a half hour of him in a tv studio it's black and white yeah yeah yeah and he is ripping the balls off of this this acoustic guitar and it's still one of my most prized possessions i've watched that thing a gazillion times great and you came over and you apologized and you said hey i got you a gift yeah so i mean like you did a really sweet thing after the
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, that's how I am, I guess.
Marc:Well, I'm glad that you have that.
Marc:I'd forgotten that part of the story.
Guest:Yeah, I knew you did.
Guest:And I still have the lightning operas.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:I like that part of the story.
Marc:Oh, then there's the other Tom Brode story.
Marc:That was another great moment, man.
Marc:We were in Los Angeles.
Marc:I don't know why we were all here.
Marc:It was me and Jack Boulware.
Marc:We were staying in that fucking hotel or the Beverly Laurel Hotel.
Marc:and we we were doing and we invited you over dude like we get back it was great because we're like come over the house we'll have we'll have a beer because we all love acdc well no no but we didn't know that yet but i said like come by the hotel and we'll have a beer so me and jack go back and it's like 1 32 in the morning i don't remember where we were before but we said come by and have a beer
Marc:So you all of a sudden, like at 2.30 in the morning, you fucking the door.
Marc:We open the door.
Marc:You got a boom box.
Marc:And it's blasting ACDC.
Marc:Like, all right.
Marc:And then we literally, we hung around.
Marc:I don't remember.
Guest:Rock and roll damnation.
Marc:Yeah, we were just fucking drinking.
Marc:I don't think there was any Coke, was there?
Marc:Uh-uh.
Marc:Yeah, we were just fucking partying.
Marc:And then we were at it for like three hours.
Marc:It was like 5.30 in the morning.
Marc:I had a meeting the next day.
Marc:And at some point, we were all wrestling.
Marc:It was like a crazy night.
Marc:And then the sun was coming up.
Marc:And we were like, I think we're going to crash.
Guest:And then you literally stood there and go, I thought you said we were having a beer.
Guest:I thought the arc of this party had fucking finished itself.
Marc:yeah good times good times now the past couple years like I guess I need to clear up some stuff with you because in the sense that like I don't know what your life has been like I mean I'd heard things like you know he doesn't even live anywhere he's living in his car he's going from town to town like you took on this mythic sort of presence in my mind like what is Rhodes doing out there what have you been doing out there I'm not living in my car I don't live anywhere huh
Guest:After Amsterdam, I came to Los Angeles, and I was here for a couple years, but I was always on the road.
Guest:And something about Los Angeles annoys the shit out of me.
Guest:Memories?
Guest:I don't know, man.
Guest:I just threw everything into storage, and for the last few years, I've just been traveling constantly.
Guest:I spent October in Europe doing shows, and then November and most of December, I was in Asia.
Guest:So it's not like I'm on the road playing Funny Bones in the Midwest, sleeping in truck stops.
Guest:Just moving.
Guest:I'm staying in great hotels.
Guest:You were in Asia?
Guest:Yeah, I did, again, booked out of London.
Guest:There's this fantastic Hong Kong tour.
Guest:You either do it, I've done it four times now.
Guest:It's either Hong Kong and China or Hong Kong and Thailand.
Marc:I did Hong Kong and Beijing.
Marc:I don't know if it's the same guy.
Marc:John Moorhead.
Marc:No, it wasn't him.
Marc:It was some other guy.
Marc:Great guy.
Marc:Named Paul.
Marc:But it was like, did you go to Beijing?
Guest:I did Beijing like 10 years ago.
Guest:But it's mostly for expats, right?
Guest:Yeah, but it's mostly for English expats.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it's not a lot of Americans do them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it's multi-ethnic, multi-national, well-educated people making tons of money and they're starving for entertainment.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So you got lots of Americans and Irish, Australians.
Guest:We hit the lottery with the language.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I did the Hong Kong China tour.
Guest:This time it was Shanghai.
Guest:And then I went to Malaysia for a month.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And I did shows.
Guest:I played in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur.
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:Slipped over to Cambodia, went to the temples of Angkor.
Marc:Now, when you go on the road, do you make sure to go out and see shit?
Guest:I always go out and see shit.
Guest:And that was another thing.
Guest:Like, for years I was on the road in the States.
Guest:You know, when you're playing the same town for like the 16th time, you've been to their bookstore.
Guest:You've seen the arch.
Guest:And it's just the same thing.
Guest:Yeah, that's it.
Guest:You've gone up in the arch.
Guest:So it's, you know, that's, you know, I love going to different countries and being able to rock.
Marc:And so, yeah, and so much of American landscape has been.
Guest:And it's more difficult for Americans to, especially like you work with English comics.
Guest:I was working with these guys in China and every English comedian has got a five or 10 minute hunk about how stupid Americans are.
Guest:They all just, you know, really shit on Americans being fucking idiots.
Guest:And then you walk out on stage, hey.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Hi, I'm an American idiot.
Marc:I'm going to try and prove the last two guys wrong.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, like, it's interesting when you tour here is that to find authentic American experience is, like, almost impossible.
Marc:It is impossible.
Marc:I was just in Sacramento.
Marc:I don't think I've been there for, like, five or six years at the Punchline Sack.
Marc:And you're right there at that intersection of mall and mall.
Marc:And there's really, like, and there's part of it.
Marc:The How About Arden Herpes Triangle.
Marc:yeah that's exactly it and you know that fucking hotel you know everything about it nothing has changed you know a couple if anything more corporate you know food outlets have shown up and to find anything with any integrity whatsoever is impossible I mean there was this sort of glory of the idea like you know when I go down south and shit I mean I try to go out of my way to find good barbecue to find like sort of indigenous restaurants but you really got to look now you got to get online you got to figure out and then you got to take a shot and roll the dice and see if you find something whereas if you're an American abroad I mean everything
Marc:Even their corporate-owned stores are new to you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, what the hell is this?
Guest:Oh, it's a chain.
Marc:That's the coolest shit I've ever seen in my life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, there's tons of them here.
Marc:It's all new.
Marc:But, I mean, when I was in China, the Great Wallet China, did you go?
Marc:I did, of course.
Marc:Holy shit.
Guest:That really is fucking great, isn't it?
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:Tell me you went to the part where there's a toboggan slide down.
Guest:I almost died on it.
Guest:I love that thing.
Guest:I have a clip on YouTube, or you can find it on TomRhodes.net, and it's me and Beijing, and then I filmed going down that slide.
Guest:It was amazing.
Marc:I didn't know how to stop it.
Marc:I almost hurt Chinese people.
Marc:I was literally on that thing.
Marc:I was with Russ Meneve, and I almost died because it's like China does not have the same kind of safety mechanisms.
Guest:There are no safety regulations there.
Marc:It's basically a rain gutter.
Guest:I was in Shanghai.
Guest:They had that apartment fire where like 300 people died.
Guest:They got all these bamboo things.
Guest:Instead of scaffolding, they've got bamboo scaffolding.
Guest:It's great.
Marc:Yeah, but that toboggan ride is literally just a giant gutter that you're in a plastic toboggan that you just shoot down.
Marc:It's like a luge sled without ice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's no safety net.
Marc:There's no nothing.
Marc:And you're like 100, 150 feet up in some places, right?
Marc:I thought it was thrilling.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it was.
Marc:But my problem was I didn't understand how to work it.
Marc:And they were yelling in Chinese as I was getting towards the end.
Marc:And I thought they were saying, go, go.
Marc:So I couldn't stop it.
Marc:And when I hit the bottom, I knocked all the other toboggans off of the track and I hit some Chinese people.
Marc:It was fucking embarrassing.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, it was amazing.
Guest:And I've got this clip that I made.
Guest:And there's did you go to the street in Beijing where they have everything fried on a stick?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Scorpion fried on a stick and snake.
Guest:I don't know if I did.
Guest:It's pretty intense.
Marc:I remember going to markets on the street where I didn't know if they were selling animals for food or pets.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:I guess that was probably kind of a byproduct of that Mao famine when he moved all these people to work in the agricultural world.
Guest:Yeah, I went to Tiananmen Square.
Guest:that Chinese people eat anything.
Marc:I think they always have.
Marc:I mean, if you look at the menu that's just for Chinese people, even when you go to Chinese restaurants in San Francisco, you're like, what the fuck is that?
Marc:I mean, I used to do a joke about that.
Guest:Yeah, we went to a place in Shanghai where there was nothing.
Guest:They had sliced pig lung and duck's feet.
Guest:Do you have to eat this?
Marc:My joke used to be like, I think if you've been a civilization as long as they have, you're going to get around to eating most shit.
Marc:It's like, yeah, throw it in.
Marc:Throw it in.
Marc:Don't throw it away.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But so now you're back in the States.
Marc:Now, I think I'm everywhere.
Guest:I mean, I just, you know, I just spent three months out of the States.
Guest:I just got back.
Marc:Just what's it now in your mind?
Marc:What's it?
Marc:You know, what's the end game?
Marc:I know we're all chasing the same grail and that, you know, we're at a certain age now where we've had a lot of ups and downs.
Marc:And it's interesting to me that because I work with you in Seattle and I haven't worked with you in a long time.
Marc:I haven't seen you in years and you're fucking kicking ass.
Marc:I mean, there's something, and I feel the same way about myself, but there's something almost like unnerving about comedy where it's like, you know, we're ready.
Marc:We're ready.
Marc:We're well-prepared.
Marc:We're trained.
Marc:Now, where do we go?
Marc:And they're like, I don't know.
Marc:Sit over there.
Marc:This good-looking kid's going to come.
Guest:Well, I try and never get jealous of young, good-looking kids who get...
Guest:Yeah, because I was the young kid who got tons of things.
Guest:So I never want to be that old guy who's bitter.
Guest:But as far as what I want to do is I want to make a comedy travel show the way Anthony Bourdain does the show all about food and traveling and he meets chefs from around the world.
Guest:And it's basically my life.
Guest:And I just filmed.
Guest:I was in Malaysia for a month.
Guest:There's a phenomenal comedy scene in Malaysia.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And their audiences.
Guest:Yeah, it's only a few years old.
Marc:English speaking.
Guest:Yeah, and you got Muslim comedians, Indian Hindus, Chinese, Buddhist Christians.
Guest:I did a few shows in KL where there was no white people, and it was exhilarating.
Guest:And the comedians there are great.
Guest:They're all earnest.
Guest:It was kind of like, it reminded me of when we were starting out in San Francisco.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where just everybody's earnest and trying to impress each other and just looking everywhere for, oh, what's funny about a tree?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:um and i have hands yeah and uh you know and and you know it's a muslim country it was great to see you know what what are muslim comedians making jokes about so uh i filmed tons i interviewed a lot of comedians and uh and i'm it's basically uh the pilot for the show that i want to make and uh i pitched it to comedy central last year they uh
Guest:liked it at first, and then, oh, whatever.
Guest:But I got it now, and I filmed it.
Guest:But, I mean, there's so many great comedy scenes in Ireland and Australia.
Guest:You're not mad now until they get some young, good-looking guy that you don't know doing your show.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But no, that's a fucking great idea.
Guest:You know, they're doing stand-up.
Guest:I've been to Argentina the last.
Guest:My mother's from Buenos Aires.
Guest:I've been there three times now.
Guest:There's a little comedy scene down there.
Guest:They do stand-up in Tel Aviv.
Guest:I know, yeah.
Guest:I want to know what are people making jokes about in other countries.
Marc:Well, isn't it interesting, though, because I've talked to people about this.
Marc:I interviewed Stuart Lee.
Marc:I was in England.
Marc:They all see stand-up as being a uniquely American art form.
Guest:Do you believe that?
Guest:Yeah, I think it started in San Francisco with Mark Twain.
Guest:He gave those funny speeches all the time.
Guest:Don't you think Mark Twain started it all?
Guest:Well, I mean... And that's why I always thought San Francisco was the Jerusalem of comedy.
Guest:That's why I moved there when I was 22.
Guest:That's interesting because of Mark Twain.
Guest:No, because of all the, I always thought a higher intelligence of comedy came out.
Marc:No, I think, yeah, I think they're much more supportive.
Guest:I only thought about Mark Twain later when I lived there.
Marc:There's definitely a different style there.
Marc:They're more encouraging of unique points of view and lyrical thinking, you know, waiting.
Guest:I like multi, that's my favorite kind of audience, you know, and that's why I liked Kuala Lumpur so much.
Guest:It's why I like Amsterdam and London.
Guest:I like multi-ethnic audiences, multinational.
Guest:If you're just playing a bunch of whatever.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Do you ever go back to Florida?
Guest:I do.
Guest:My family's there.
Guest:Oh, there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I do some gigs down there, but not too much.
Guest:Because Florida is its own thing.
Guest:Florida is its own country.
Guest:I love Florida.
Guest:I spent my life running away from there.
Guest:I couldn't wait to get out of there because I knew showbiz, comedy wasn't happening there.
Guest:All I wanted to do was be a stand-up comedian.
Guest:And now I go back and it's like...
Marc:you know 80 degrees at Christmas and palm trees oh my god why was I so angry it's very weird too yeah my mom lives down there and it gets a bad rap but I go there I'm like this is great it's wonderful why was I so unhappy growing up here it's sort of densely populated and it's a weird mix of people you know you get the sort of redneck and then you get the Latin and then you get the Jew and then yeah but I mean it's like Texas isn't all morons you know you got Austin really smart people and you know Florida's got well it's just a very eclectic mix and it's very densely populated
Marc:And I know you've had a rough couple years with the court trials and everything.
Marc:Did you get through all that?
Marc:Do you not want to talk about that?
Marc:We could.
Marc:I just think it's interesting because so many people I talk to who have, like myself included, we all grew up a different way.
Marc:And the kind of shit you were going through and the amount of respect you had for your old man, I thought it was very interesting.
Marc:But we don't have to talk about it.
Guest:We can.
Guest:It's...
Guest:You know, thank God for comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I don't know how normal people who have problems deal with their problems.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, that's what we do for people.
Marc:And when we can do it for ourselves, it's pretty amazing.
Guest:And I, you know, I love comedy, given my life to it, but it's just, wow, it was really sweet in this last...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was...
Guest:Guy was like three times over the legal limit, doing 85 to 100 miles an hour.
Guest:The dude who hit him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my dad was in the hospital for three months.
Guest:There's a lot of fishy elements to it where the police report didn't say my dad was taken to the hospital.
Guest:It just said he had large cuts on his hand.
Guest:And I don't know, man, you know, because they're such a money machine.
Guest:Who, the police?
Guest:No.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:Not all Christians are bad.
Guest:That's another thing is dealing with that.
Guest:I think just so much of organized religion is scummy and disgusting.
Guest:And this thing, the guy, it was like the OJ trial, man.
Guest:He had...
Guest:Three flashy lawyers.
Marc:But who the hell was he?
Marc:I mean, your dad, this is a guy that fought in Vietnam.
Marc:He was a tough dude.
Marc:He did a lot of good for people.
Marc:And then this happens out of nowhere.
Guest:Yeah, and I loved my dad.
Guest:He was the life of the party.
Guest:He liked to drink, liked to make jokes.
Guest:My dad had comedy albums.
Guest:That's the reason I'm a comedian.
Guest:And my dad drove me to my... My dad loved Pryor.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Loved Pryor.
Guest:He had all of Pryor and Bill Cosby, Bob Newhart, Jonathan Winters.
Guest:My dad really, I mean, you know, I used to listen to these records when I was a kid and just the sound of the laughter.
Guest:I didn't, you know, get all the dirty jokes that Pryor did.
Guest:And he used to drive you to gigs?
Guest:When I started, yeah.
Guest:My dad drove me to my first open mic night because I didn't have a car yet.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And, you know, my dad took me to see, my uncle did stand-up
Guest:open mic nights for a year in washington dc when i was 12 and my dad took me to see him when i was 12. how do you and that's when i decided you know i want to be a comedian i you know i had a similar thing with jackie vernon my parents took me to see jackie vernon when i was like 11 or 12. that's why whenever i see a kid in the audience i always tell that story and i say look take a look kid this is your future i do that too if i see a parent and their kid i'm like you sure you want to do this i know it's
Guest:You're about to ruin the kids.
Guest:I'm not exactly encouraging.
Guest:I think it's a gift.
Guest:I think it's great.
Guest:I mean, there's a lot worse things you could do with your life.
Guest:But anyway, the guy got off with... Who was the guy, though?
Marc:Why did he have these lawyers?
Marc:I mean, what was his name?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Some big guy up in the organization.
Marc:Oh, so he was the guy within the Trinity Broadcasting Network?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he got off.
Guest:He had this big legal team, and it was just so...
Guest:You know, having my dad die was one thing.
Guest:He was buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
Guest:That was pretty nice and heavy.
Guest:It was like a movie, you know, the 21-gun salute.
Marc:Folding the flag and everything.
Guest:And then you forget they're going to play taps, and I was already crying.
Guest:But then the trial came, and then to see that guy walk...
Guest:out of that courtroom that day was was like having my dad die all over again yeah i remember and you know and i've always you know been really cynical about this you know the states and made jokes and stuff but i always thought you know our legal system yeah kind of gave everybody a fair shake utter complete horse shit there's two legal systems for the rich and one for the poor if it would have been some mexican kid or me somebody without a big legal defense fund they'd be they'd got it would have gotten 20 years
Marc:And what happened?
Marc:Because I saw you in the middle of that, and it was just like you were just shattered.
Marc:And that was it?
Marc:What happened ultimately?
Marc:That was it.
Marc:The guy, you know, he just got a little slap on the wrist.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And now, do you have any peace over it?
Guest:Somewhat.
Guest:I mean, it really... You're seething with anger, and, you know, you want... You know, just like true grit, man.
Guest:You just want to fucking put the reins in your mouth and...
Guest:charge and shoot somebody yeah but uh the thing because i've uh i've seen the guy what's available of him online i don't want to say his name um but the thing that that ultimately gave me peace this this epiphany that i had about five or six months ago was that guy will never be the preacher that i am right
Guest:That guy will never be able to speak truth and touch people's hearts and just, you know, twist ideas to make people laugh and just have the effect on humanity that I'm going to have.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that is, you know, that's finally started to wash away some, you know, the cleansing, if you will.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, yeah, this, you know, it's what?
Guest:It hasn't been a year since that trial.
Guest:But, yeah, the last...
Guest:Six, eight months, I feel great.
Marc:Have you addressed, like, do you address anything about the legal system or have you found yourself, like, you know, taking on jokes that you might not have before?
Guest:I've talked about my dad's death, but the actual, that's still ruminating.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Because, like, I found that, too.
Marc:Like, there's a weird feeling.
Marc:I mean, even, because, I mean, we come from, like, different backgrounds and I don't, you know, I come from sort of a middle-class Jew background, but there are moments where,
Marc:where you realize that despite the organization of justice, that you're fucking all alone.
Marc:That really, when it comes right down to it, even if shit was about to go down, when are the cops gonna get here, really?
Marc:I mean, they come pretty quick.
Guest:Depends what neighborhood you live in.
Marc:Now, do you have a firearm?
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh, did you ever?
Marc:Were you ever that guy?
Guest:Never, no.
Marc:Me neither.
Guest:No, you know me.
Guest:I've always been against guns.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, there was that great joke.
Guest:But I have gone to a lot.
Guest:That was back in the San Francisco day.
Guest:The British.
Guest:Last year, because of handguns in England, there were eight deaths.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Last year, because of handguns in Canada, there were 16 deaths.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in the United States, we had 28,463.
Guest:Apparently, we don't tolerate as much bullshit here.
Guest:So go to Canada if you want to run your mouth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:uh but no i but in alaska somebody took me skeet shooting yeah and i was utterly amazed at how phenomenal i was at it really yeah that pump shotgun and yeah and i could never shoot a living animal but i will fuck up a clay plate yeah yeah kill that fucking clay pigeon yeah why have you bought a gun now no i don't you know
Marc:My fear is that I'm more afraid if I ever end up with a woman living in my house again, that that's when that gun will be used by her on me.
Marc:That was always my angle on it.
Marc:I'm prone to emotionally charged arguments.
Marc:And I don't think that I would ever pull a gun on anybody.
Marc:But if someone I was arguing with knew the gun was in the drawer, then I don't know how far they might go.
Marc:And also, I don't know if I would...
Marc:I don't know if I would shoot somebody.
Marc:My dad's got a lot of guns, you know, and he wanders around with a gun because he's out of his mind.
Guest:Yeah, but like you said, some people have enough self-control where they can own a gun.
Marc:Yeah, well, I think that a lot of people think that.
Marc:Yeah, but still, like the handgun deaths, I mean, I'm sure a lot of those deaths were by people who thought they had a lot of self-control.
Marc:But they apparently couldn't either control their gun or that moment.
Marc:It was fascinating to me that I read a study about suicide that was very interesting.
Marc:They were doing a study about suicide here, about handgun suicide primarily.
Marc:And someone cited a study in England that there was a period in England where the suicide rate was high.
Marc:And the primary way that people killed themselves...
Marc:was that the gas that was the natural gas that they used for ovens, it was a specific type of gas, and they used it countrywide.
Marc:So the popular way to do it, given that there were no guns there, they'd stick their fucking head in the oven, and within minutes, they'd be dead from this particular gas.
Marc:But when they changed the type of gas they used, the suicide rate went way down.
Marc:So the person who was doing the study on guns realized that, you know, the possibilities of somebody moving through the feelings that were suicidal were pretty good if they didn't have access to a means to kill themselves in the house.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I thought that was pretty fascinating.
Guest:That is fascinating.
Guest:But, you know, I was maced in Paris.
Guest:For what?
Guest:Just some guys tried to rob me.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And they don't have guns there.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's like a way they mace you and then they jump on you and beat you up.
Guest:I got away.
Guest:What did you do?
Guest:Run?
Guest:I ran like a bitch.
Guest:I held my arms and I ran.
Guest:I was maced in the city of love.
Guest:I think there's something beautiful about that.
Marc:No shame in running, I've always thought.
Guest:No.
Marc:How many were there?
Marc:Two.
Marc:Have you ever been in that situation before?
Marc:Because I don't know, you seem like a fairly diplomatic guy, but have you ever been confronted after a show with guys who are like, I'm going to kick your fucking ass?
Guest:No, I had an incident with a guy in Holland once that was stupid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, yeah.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:Just shoving and, you know, it was stupid.
Guest:It was just stupid.
Guest:Were there women around?
Guest:No, it was just some... It was typical heckler.
Guest:Guy wanting to come up and, hey, buddy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You smack him around like a bitch while you're on stage with every comeback line you've got.
Guest:And then, oh, now he wants to come up and talk to you after the show.
Guest:And that's never going to be good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So now you've got a girl?
Guest:I have a lovely girl, yeah.
Guest:Where'd she live?
Guest:She lives in Holland.
Guest:But we're going to get married soon.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:When is that going to happen?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm just tired of letting good women slip to my fingers, Mark.
Guest:You ready?
Guest:You ready to get married?
Guest:No, I'm terrified.
Guest:How old are you now?
Guest:46?
Guest:44.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:It's all right.
Guest:Just a few days ago.
Marc:I'm 47.
Marc:I know, buddy.
Marc:You're a little younger than me.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:You look good, too.
Marc:We're kind of beat up, but we look all right.
Marc:I think we did all right.
Marc:We did all right.
Marc:You're going to get married.
Guest:Yeah, she's a good woman.
Guest:You want to have babies?
Guest:I do.
Guest:And where are you going to settle down?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:We're going to travel.
Guest:She's a gypsy.
Guest:Is she?
Guest:No.
Guest:She loves comedy.
Guest:She loves hanging out.
Guest:She's a photographer.
Guest:She does good work.
Guest:She looks at America in a different way than an American.
Guest:And yeah, I've got loads more international stuff coming up.
Guest:Like where?
Guest:I'm going to do this comedy festival in Perth at the end of May, and then I'm going to go do Bali and Singapore and Kuala Lumpur again.
Guest:Go back to Sydney.
Guest:You played in Sydney.
Marc:I did.
Marc:I like Sydney.
Marc:I had a good time.
Marc:I'm going to Melbourne this year, too.
Marc:Nice.
Marc:I've started to go international a little more.
Marc:I don't...
Marc:My problem internationally is because I'm sort of heady and a little more neurotic than a lot of Europeans are willing to tolerate, it's hard for me to figure out exactly what parts of my bits work, and it usually takes me a little time to get adjusted.
Marc:I was just in Kilkenny.
Marc:That was a little challenging.
Marc:How was that?
Marc:I love Ireland.
Marc:I've never done Kilkenny.
Marc:I think Ireland's beautiful.
Marc:Well, Kilkenny's like...
Marc:It's weird because it's like a festival that happens once a year.
Marc:And I imagine a lot of the audiences are not regular comedy audiences.
Marc:So it's sort of like doing like a one nighter, you know, that that gets like 500 people at a hotel ballroom, you know, once a month here.
Marc:So it's that kind of feeling.
Marc:You know, they're not necessarily hip.
Marc:But, you know, by the end of the week, you know, by the by one or two dark nights of the soul of like, you know, I can't ever go abroad again.
Marc:Yeah, I kind of figured it out.
Guest:Your Edinburgh experience, I thought was... Horrendous.
Marc:I know, and I thought they would have really adored you there.
Marc:I think it was just the way I went there.
Marc:I was on a double bill.
Marc:I didn't really know what I was getting into.
Marc:And also, I was in the middle of the divorce.
Marc:I was fucking miserable.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:It was ugly.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Yeah, there was a lot of extenuating.
Marc:Is that what you call it?
Guest:Because I would like to do Edinburgh.
Guest:I've always wanted to do it.
Guest:It's a month contract.
Guest:commitment i know and it's big time and then i've done melbourne before and it's the greatest experience ever and it feels like summer camp you're with comedians and everybody but that's a close you're making all these great friends and you're all hanging out and it's the most relaxed but edinburgh's like you know anybody and then i've so i've seen the same comedians that were really relaxed enjoying themselves in melbourne a complete nervous wreck in edinburgh about ticket sales and
Marc:Well, it's a clusterfuck, because you're up against 1,000 shows a day.
Marc:There's a show every 10 minutes, and there are shows, like, literally, you know, some shows are being held in people's flats.
Marc:I mean, you know, and everyone's flyering.
Marc:It's just a complete weird-ass clusterfuck of theater, comedy, you know, and buskers.
Guest:I mean, it's just... It's daunting.
Guest:I mean, I think everybody should do it once.
Guest:That's why I would like to do it.
Guest:I had...
Guest:The worst set of my life in Edinburgh.
Guest:And it's funny.
Guest:I'd like to do Edinburgh this year because this will be like the 10 year anniversary of it.
Guest:It was and I wasn't your failure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:OK, I had just gone to Edinburgh to check it out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because I was interested in it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it was August 2001.
Guest:Keep in mind, a month later, the Twin Towers go down.
Guest:Everybody loves America.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This was not that... It was this all-American show hosted by Louis Schaefer.
Guest:Remember Louis Schaefer?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's already a bad story.
Guest:Everybody...
Guest:like hated this guy and people had gone there specifically to heckle him i still hate him so uh and a lot of people do yeah and it was all these american comedians hosted by him and it's just this rabid anti-american rally and it was at the gilded balloon and where i was and he's everybody's getting heckled it's the it's the lamb to slaughter and
Guest:And Rich Hall, my good friend, was supposed to close the show.
Guest:And he has laryngitis all of a sudden.
Guest:And he asked me if I'll do his set for him.
Guest:And I'm like, you know, cocky and like, oh, man, they're going to love me, you know?
Guest:So I'm like pounding beers.
Guest:I'm just getting excited.
Guest:And I'm watching all these comedians die.
Guest:The Tom Rhodes pace.
Guest:I'm like, fuck it.
Guest:I am going to fucking rock this place.
Guest:So...
Guest:I walk out, and the sound man fucked me.
Guest:He played God Bless America as I walked out.
Guest:And it was already this anti-American rabid audience.
Guest:And they lost their minds, man.
Guest:People, fucking go back to America!
Guest:Fuck you, America!
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I couldn't even get started on the microphone.
Guest:I had this really serene moment.
Guest:I sat down Indian style and I lit a cigarette and I just soaked it in.
Guest:I can still see the spittle coming out of these people's mouths and pointing fingers in slow-mo.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And, you know, I stood up and I tried to couldn't even get started.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It was that bad?
Guest:It was that bad.
Guest:I was deafening, yelling, and couldn't even get started.
Guest:That's insane.
Guest:And so that was like my Vietnam.
Guest:I'll still wake up some nights in like a sweat, and oh my God, I'm still on that stage, and I can see these people.
Guest:So about whatever it was, five or six years ago, I was in Atlanta, and I'm playing at the Punchline, and I'm staying at the Hilton, sitting in my underwear, waking up, having some coffee.
Guest:I turn on CNN.
Guest:I know that.
Guest:And Edinburgh's on fire.
Guest:The center of Edinburgh is on fire.
Guest:It's engulfed in flames.
Guest:And they show the map of Edinburgh.
Guest:And I knew that the gilded balloon was right there engulfed in flames.
Guest:And I stood up in my underwear in a hotel room by myself and went.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Payback's a bitch.
Yeah.
Guest:But I don't know.
Guest:I heard that place is kind of notorious for... Fire?
Guest:Just heckling comedians.
Guest:I know a lot of English comedians who won't do it.
Marc:The thing about it with me was that there was this idea that you make your mark there.
Marc:And then you keep going back until you build a following.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm never going back.
Marc:I don't want this following.
Marc:It sounds great for someone else but me.
Marc:But what have you found in terms of, because what's happened now is that all of these countries, there was a while there where Americans were the king of the world.
Marc:Like, you know, they everything was American stand up was all there really was.
Marc:And if there were local comics, they were sort of like, you know, doing American style comedy, but not that well.
Marc:But now all of these places have indigenous comedy scenes like you were saying.
Marc:I mean, Malaysia places I would never even imagine.
Marc:But certainly Ireland, you know, they all have their own TV world and they all have their stars.
Marc:So like Americans are really just, you know, where we're getting, you know, are just desserts in a certain, you know, that it's true.
Marc:that we go there and they're like, you know, who are you now?
Marc:We've got our own guys.
Marc:But what do you say?
Guest:But it's like Kung Fu.
Guest:It's to effortlessly use someone's negative energy against them.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Is the idea, you know?
Guest:I mean, you can really work that to your advantage.
Guest:And I think it's really thrilling to, you know, when you go to, like I go to England,
Guest:You know certain things aren't going to work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then you gain observations.
Guest:You know, it's exciting.
Marc:Well, what do you find about, in the sense of camaraderie, you know, internationally?
Marc:Because, like, I have a personality that people misread as arrogant or detached.
Marc:And really, I'm just socially awkward for the most part.
Marc:I like one or two people.
Marc:But I always get, it gets hung on me that, like, you know, he thinks he's this, he thinks he's that.
Guest:I think if you made DVDs of that Lightning Hopkins half hour and passed it out to people.
Guest:I'd be all right.
Marc:But no, but do you find that in terms of the communities, you know, you're part of the international comedy community.
Marc:You're like, I am not really.
Marc:And like, as it compared to like American sort of like, cause here it's like, you know, there's clicks and there's a little groups, but it seems like that, that in Europe, it's a little more open.
Marc:They're not, you know, it's not as clicky, you know, that everyone's sort of like, you know, they get off, I'm doing all these different places and go in these different places and they seem a lot more open.
Guest:Yeah, certainly like England is definitely a meritocracy as far as comedy goes.
Guest:I mean, you know, great Australian, Canadian comedians.
Guest:I was talking to the guy, a Canadian comedian in Montreal last year, and he was like, I want to move to New York.
Guest:Can you give me any advice?
Guest:And I said, dude, if you're Canadian, move to London.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:There's so much work there.
Guest:It pays great.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Why go to New York and hassle with the fucking immigration papers?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Well, they bust my balls when I go to Canada now because I got turned away once because I didn't have the right papers.
Marc:And ever since then, I got to go to fucking immigration and wait an hour or two and be processed.
Guest:But yeah, there's a great worldwide comedy community and there's a lot of great comedians all over the world.
Marc:Well, yeah, I interviewed Stuart Lee, who I was turned on to by a young comic.
Guest:I met him in Melbourne.
Guest:I did Melbourne with him.
Guest:He's spectacular.
Guest:Wonderful guy.
Marc:Yeah, and great comic.
Marc:Very unique.
Guest:Yeah, and he always records his live stuff in Glasgow because it's such a rough audience, which I think is brilliant.
Marc:Yeah, he seems to like the tension of it.
Marc:But he's got some real steel balls, that guy.
Marc:Because he's one of those guys that's like, this is what I do.
Marc:Some of you aren't going to like it, but I'm not going to change gears.
Marc:And, you know, and he taught me something really amazing.
Marc:Like he took it at some point when he started, he quit for a while and come back.
Marc:And at some point he started to feel more empathy for the people that didn't get him than aggravation, aggravation.
Marc:Like he'll see somebody out there who just doesn't get what he's doing.
Marc:And he's, he feels bad that they, you know, this was not what they expect.
Marc:And, uh, and now there's nothing he can do for that guy.
Marc:And that guy's going to be upset about his evening.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:And it's really a better way to look at it.
Guest:That's a brilliant way to look at it.
Guest:There was a female comedian.
Guest:I forget her name.
Guest:She had worked at the comedy store in London.
Guest:I'm sorry, the comedy store in L.A.
Guest:as a door person.
Guest:And she started out in Houston.
Guest:And I never saw her get frazzled after a set.
Guest:And she said, yeah, I worked the door at the comedy store.
Guest:And I would always see these comedians get off stage and beat themselves up mentally and be unhappy about something.
Guest:And I always swore I would never do that when I started being a comedian.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I wish somebody had told me that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:yeah yeah but knowing me even if someone told me that i'm like well you're just a fucking idiot then yeah how can you not beat yourself up but you know there's no shortage of that the comedy story the beating yourself into annihilation and then being angry about it and then bringing that up on stage all right tommy so i think we did good
Marc:I think we did wonderful, buddy.
Guest:It's great to see you.
Guest:It's great to see you, too.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And hey, what about the Dave Attell tour idea?
Guest:The Attell, Stanhope, Rhodes, Marin.
Guest:Attell said on your program he wanted to do a show, a tour with me, you, and Stanhope.
Guest:That would be great.
Guest:And then you and I got excited about it.
Guest:And you and I were making calls to them.
Guest:And then they eventually were like, nah, they didn't want to give up their solo audience thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then it kind of fell away.
Guest:But you and I were like, that's a great idea.
Marc:No, it would be fun.
Marc:And I think you and I think the same way, but those guys have built, you know, Stanhope has got his own methodology of, of how he books himself and what his markets are.
Marc:And it tells got agents, you know, who, you know, who do, who decide what he's going to do.
Marc:And now he's on package tours with, uh, with bigger names.
Marc:It seems like he's doing that.
Marc:And I guess it just really came down to the numbers for them.
Marc:Whereas like me and you were like, it's because it's fun.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who cares about numbers?
Marc:I think we,
Marc:We can get a big place and have a good time.
Marc:And they're like, well, you know, I already do that market.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I guess you're doing this for a job thing.
Marc:You're trying to get rich off this?
Guest:I thought you guys said you want to have a beer.
Guest:I'm doing it for healing, man.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:We're trying to help ourselves and others.
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:Maybe it'll happen.
Marc:I love those guys.
Marc:We'll see what happens.
Marc:You in touch with Doug?
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:He's in Tucson, though, huh?
Marc:No further.
Marc:Bisbee.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:Way down there.
Guest:He's got a compound, huh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Have you been down there?
Guest:Yeah, I've been down there a few times.
Guest:It's really cool.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, it's cool, because there's no homeowners association, so he's painted it like Dr. Seuss.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:He's a fucking trip.
Guest:All right, man.
Marc:Well, it's good talking to you.
Marc:I love you to death, buddy.
Marc:You too, bro.
Marc:Well, that's it.
Marc:Tom Rhodes.
Marc:I'm coming to you semi-live from a hotel room in Austin, Texas, where it's the first sunny day.
Marc:I'm here busy digesting barbecue.
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Marc:Get on that mailing list.
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Marc:You can also go to WTFPod.com, choose the no iTunes option for the podcast, and you'll be taken to our server page where you can get a premium app for your computer desktop, where you can download all of the current...
Marc:WTS but you can also stream every episode from the first episode if you're sitting at your desk trying to look like you're working that might be an option to you to you how about for you how about I'm in a hotel room how about I'm tired how about I'm displaced how about I'm at the laughing skull in Atlanta Georgia tonight Thursday the 18th through Sunday how about that come to that I've said enough
you