Episode 1578 - Kaitlin Olson
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark marin this is my podcast wtf welcome to it what's happening oh my god what's happening on my phone right now
Marc:Right now, Chris Christofferson, dead at 88.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:He was one of the greats.
Marc:Man, that generation is going.
Marc:That generation is going.
Marc:My dad, it's going.
Marc:Man, Chris Christofferson is one of those guys that wrote a few, many, but a few fucking songs.
Marc:There's some guys that just...
Marc:can write one song.
Marc:And it's like, if that's all they did, that's enough.
Marc:You know, Tim Harden's another one, but Chris did a lot of stuff, did some acting, did some writing, some poetry, deep dude, deep dude.
Marc:Rest in peace, Chris Christopherson.
Marc:I'm just learning this as you're hearing it.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:What's going on with you guys?
Marc:I, uh, I just got home.
Marc:I went back to the source.
Marc:I went back to the place where it happened, for better or for worse.
Marc:I went back to New Mexico where I grew up.
Marc:And I tell you, I went back for my birthday.
Marc:We went back there, and I was like, I'm going home.
Marc:I'm going to celebrate my birthday at home.
Marc:Well, in my hometown, kid came out.
Marc:What did I do?
Marc:I mean, I don't know.
Marc:I just took it easy, man.
Marc:There's something real relaxing to me about going home.
Marc:I'm glad it finally turned out that way.
Marc:Where I didn't get there and I was like, what the fuck am I going to do here?
Marc:I go there and I'm like, there's something comforting and calming just about the fucking air.
Marc:But yeah, so my birthday, I did whatever I wanted to.
Marc:It was my birthday.
Marc:I was fucking tired.
Marc:But I went out and I had a vegan milkshake.
Marc:I had a Mexican marzipan vegan milkshake and a vegan double hamburger.
Marc:And some french fries.
Marc:Fuck it.
Marc:It's my birthday, goddammit.
Marc:I never had a vegan milkshake.
Marc:And I'm glad I don't live near that place.
Marc:I think it's called the Lucky Goose over there on Central.
Marc:Across from Knob Hill.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just fucking had a vegan milkshake.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:It was enough.
Marc:Sugar be damned.
Marc:Let's fucking do it.
Marc:It was pretty goddamned good.
Marc:And I did some other stuff, cruised around.
Marc:It's a very interesting thing that's happened in New Mexico.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think it's happening.
Marc:I think it's all happening.
Marc:Look, before I drift.
Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Caitlin Olsen, finally.
Marc:She's played Sweet D on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia for the past 19 years.
Marc:She had a guest role on Hacks this past season.
Marc:Very funny.
Marc:Her new crime drama, High Potential, is now on ABC and Hulu.
Marc:I enjoyed that, too.
Marc:I like her.
Marc:She's funny.
Marc:One of the funniest comedic actresses around, I might say.
Marc:I will say that.
Marc:Hell yeah.
Marc:Hell yeah, I will.
Marc:Hey, look, if you're in Los Angeles, I'll be at Largo next week, Thursday, October 3rd.
Marc:The rest of my tour dates are scheduled for next year.
Marc:You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour to see all of them.
Marc:I imagine over the weekends, the next month or so, I'll be around the Comedy Store.
Marc:I'll be here in L.A.
Marc:shooting a movie that is shaping up to have a hell of a cast, man.
Marc:I'm intimidated.
Marc:I don't know if I can make any announcements, but we got some big hitters in this little movie that I'm the star of.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:I better step up.
Marc:I better fucking do the work.
Marc:Albuquerque, man.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:So this thing that's happening in Albuquerque, I don't know if it's happening everywhere.
Marc:First of all, that's where show business is.
Marc:It seems like there's three cities.
Marc:L.A.
Marc:'s done.
Marc:Toast.
Marc:Show business.
Marc:Toast.
Marc:What's left of it in terms of generating stuff is in people's garages or people's bunkers or in people's makeshift studios that they've rented out.
Marc:in the industrial part of town, or for big-time show business, you've got Atlanta, Vancouver, and Albuquerque.
Marc:Berkey is on the upswing.
Marc:I think Netflix just built a town out there.
Marc:It's a bunch of major studios.
Marc:I think people who are working behind the camera in all the different positions, they're moving out there.
Marc:It's good for the city.
Marc:I'm all for it.
Marc:I'm going to end up there.
Marc:That's where I'm going to end.
Marc:I plan to end in Albuquerque.
Marc:Is that okay?
Marc:But here's this thing that's interesting, and I don't know if it's happening in other places.
Marc:I believe it is because I've been to some of these places, but like up by where I went to high school, at Highland High School, there used to be some pretty big retail stores.
Marc:There was a big furniture store there.
Marc:There's a couple of big retail spaces, smaller department stores.
Marc:I don't know what was in one of them, but now...
Marc:there's three or four of them up there on central by Highland that are now just antique malls or, or just kind of like indoor flea markets in a way.
Marc:I would say that's closer, but they do, they are, some of them are better than there's like a few down the Valley, all these huge retail spaces that,
Marc:are now filled with leased booths or blocks or spaces for people to sell their shit, their tchotchkes, their collections, just, you know, eras, like 100 to 150 years worth of stuff that lasts, apparently.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Antique Pyrex.
Marc:Some Santos.
Marc:Some tribal jewelry.
Marc:Some jeans.
Marc:Hundreds of records.
Marc:Knickknacks of all kinds.
Marc:Old stuff.
Marc:No new stuff.
Marc:You can look around this stuff for hours.
Marc:Some of these booths have tons of stuff.
Marc:Saddles.
Marc:Hats.
Marc:vests boxing gloves a cookie jar a thing that goes to another thing daggers banjos and of course there's the one booth full of nazi stuff every flea market every antique mall you get to that one booth and you're like the fuck is this guy up to where'd he get that
Marc:Where'd he get that Jew's hand?
Marc:Hey, that lampshade shouldn't be legal.
Marc:Sorry, too rough, too tough, too edgy.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:It's always the Nazi guy.
Marc:Well, now I think they have stuff with new retail merchandise that you can just get online.
Marc:Or maybe some states have stores, full Nazi stores.
Marc:But there's always at the flea markets, there's the guy with the old Nazi shit.
Marc:A helmet, an iron cross, a dagger.
Marc:An arm band.
Marc:It's not comforting.
Marc:But I mean, I get why it's fascinating.
Marc:It's Nazi shit.
Marc:But anyway, I went to three or four of these places.
Marc:Bought some Danish modern furniture.
Marc:Yeah, I did.
Marc:I just saw a good price for some good stuff, coffee table.
Marc:But most importantly, I bought a Ganesh from a small display case filled with hundreds of small things.
Marc:And for some reason, my eyes always land on any Ganesh statue.
Marc:So I got a Ganesh, another Ganesh.
Marc:I have many Ganeshes.
Marc:I bought a big mortar and pestle.
Marc:I got a corduroy jacket.
Marc:It looks like a Sears jacket from the 70s.
Marc:I'm all ready to go.
Marc:With that, I'll just have my Ganesh in my pocket, and I can walk the streets like I'm a member of the meth tribe with my giant mortar and pestle.
Marc:my corduroy jacket, no pants, and maybe I'll wear the Ganesh around my neck.
Marc:I'm ready for the future.
Marc:I'm ready for the future here in the shadow of World War III.
Marc:Are you?
Marc:So I saw the old man out there.
Marc:I did the thing day after my birthday.
Marc:They wish me a happy birthday.
Marc:And thank you for all your birthday greetings and well wishes.
Marc:I appreciate it.
Marc:61 years old.
Marc:And believe me, man, I feel it creeping up.
Marc:I think about it all the time.
Marc:Not in a negative way, but I think about it.
Marc:61 years old.
Marc:I'm almost as old as my dad.
Marc:But he pointed out to me that that's not possible.
Marc:That he says, I'm never going to be as old as him while he's alive.
Marc:That's the kind of wit and wisdom you get from a guy whose brain is a little altered, a little starting to wind down the brain.
Marc:But he's still good for a laugh.
Marc:He had a good time hanging out.
Marc:He's always got little kernels of what you would call it, dementia entertainment, if that's what he has.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:This time, I think I was exhausted when I get to Albuquerque because I'm filled with anxiety, sadness, a little bit of dread.
Marc:I don't know what's going to happen when I see him, where he's at, see him and his wife, Rosie.
Marc:Thank God for Rosie every day.
Marc:Thank Jesus.
Marc:Thank Jesus.
Marc:Not a Jesus guy, but I thank Jesus for Rosie because Rosie has a Jesus.
Marc:So I'll thank Rosie's Jesus for Rosie because God, she's putting up with it.
Marc:She's dealing with it.
Marc:I hope she hangs in there because I don't want him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But no, I went over there, saw him, took him out for lunch.
Marc:He seems to be walking all right.
Marc:He was pretty lit up.
Marc:He was on the ball.
Marc:He was connected.
Marc:He knew who I was.
Marc:He knew what things were.
Marc:He had his memories going.
Marc:And I started to realize, oh, man...
Marc:You got to stay engaged, folks.
Marc:I know you like to listen to me and I know you know me to a certain degree.
Marc:And, you know, I'm there for you and I am in this one sided fashion.
Marc:But geez, man, you got to you got to talk to people about real stuff.
Marc:You got to spend time with people and maybe not just the people you spend time all the time with, because those things become redundant.
Marc:You know, you don't you don't necessarily get out of the loop if you're just around the same one person every day.
Marc:You know, you go through that becomes cyclical.
Marc:But I mean, you got to get out there and engage.
Marc:You got to maintain your curiosity, not just your compulsion, your curiosity.
Marc:There's a difference.
Marc:You got to be curious.
Marc:You know, it's just, you don't want to, it's like, I don't know, man.
Marc:You know, my dad's brain is, is, is, is failing a bit, but I think that if he had just a couple of friends to go talk to, I just had this realization today or yesterday or whenever it was day before yesterday, I took him out to lunch and he seemed, he seemed present and engaged, which he was, he's doing okay.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Not much change since the last time I saw him.
Marc:I was helping him out of the car and did his seatbelt.
Marc:He got up.
Marc:He goes, you know, who is that princess?
Marc:The one that got thrown from the car.
Marc:The accident.
Marc:They were chasing her.
Marc:I only knew one princess in a car accident.
Marc:So I said, Diana, Lady Diana, Lady Di, he's like, yeah, yeah, that's when I really knew you had to wear a seatbelt.
Marc:Yeah, he said that.
Marc:He said, my dad said that.
Marc:That's where he, that's when he knew.
Marc:There's no, it's a beautiful, it's a well of poetry, dementia.
Marc:That's the silver lining.
Marc:But, you know, we were talking at the restaurant and I'm always, you know, I think you get used to asking questions of old people to see, you know, where they're at and try to get a sense of what's going on with them.
Marc:But just tell them some stories, man.
Marc:I just, I don't know.
Marc:I just had this moment where I realized, like, I just started telling them about my life.
Marc:what I've been doing, shooting the TV show, hanging around, talking to people, what I've been going through, where I've been going and stuff.
Marc:And he was all in, man, getting them laughing, listening, you know, not drifting.
Marc:I mean, he was just locked in.
Marc:And I realized, like, that is all of it.
Marc:That is the human experience.
Marc:That's what's going to save you.
Marc:Other people are going to save you, but not just talking shit, talking a little shits.
Marc:All right.
Marc:But, you know, especially if you live a solitary life or you're a loner or you don't spend time with people, figure out how to do it because you can't just sit around listening to podcasts.
Marc:You can't just sitting around scrolling on your dumb fucking phone.
Marc:You can't just sit around in your bubble, you know, in the loop.
Marc:It's a loop.
Marc:You got to get out in the world and engage with the fucking people while they're still out there.
Marc:There's fewer out there.
Marc:But, you know, if you've got old friends, call them for fuck's sake.
Marc:Call your old friends.
Marc:Reconnect.
Marc:Make a plan.
Marc:Get off of the thing in your hand.
Marc:It's not the same.
Marc:FaceTime's not the same.
Marc:Get out there.
Marc:Take a fucking walk.
Marc:Sit at a coffee place.
Marc:Do the fucking thing, man.
Marc:It's the only defense you have.
Marc:against i don't know just you know kind of personal bubble fed internal loops you know it's a oh god you don't want to become like a just a an algorithm appendage just like the human manifestation of choices made outside of you do you do you want to become that
Marc:Just choices made for you by surrendering your desires and needs.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Through impulsive choices driven by dopamine cravings.
Marc:Do you want to be that person?
Marc:That's not a relationship.
Marc:That's a loop.
Marc:You're just you're not even a you're half a human.
Marc:All that energy, all that stuff that you're feeding, that you're putting into your brain, just looping around there.
Marc:And eventually it's not even about desires or curiosities.
Marc:It's just about the need comes from that deep dopamine craving, that hijacking of your primitive brain.
Marc:I'm telling you, listen to me.
Marc:Talk to people, sit with people, even if it's uncomfortable, even if nothing is being said.
Marc:Be around it.
Marc:Engage with it.
Marc:Don't become an algorithm puppet.
Marc:Don't become a tape recorder.
Marc:Don't become a recording machine of bullshit that you repeat, that you've heard from other bullshit sources.
Marc:That might happen with people, though.
Marc:There's plenty of people that you know that are bullshit sources, great resources of bullshit.
Marc:But get past that.
Marc:There's a person in there.
Marc:Listen to me.
Marc:I'm telling you, I'm trying to save your life before it all fucking is enveloped all at once.
Marc:But I don't want to get negative, you guys.
Marc:Just hear me out.
Marc:Go talk to a friend, will you?
Marc:Will you?
Marc:So look, Caitlin Olsen, very funny.
Marc:I've always liked her.
Marc:She's great in Hacks.
Marc:I like her new TV show, High Potential, as well.
Marc:That airs Tuesday nights, new episodes Tuesday nights on ABC.
Marc:Streams on Hulu after that.
Marc:Always Sunny, Hacks.
Marc:Just a very funny person.
Marc:And I was curious to talk to her, and I did.
Marc:And now you're going to hear it.
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:Good.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:Good.
Marc:Was it a bad drive?
Marc:No, it was a great drive.
Marc:Saturday.
Marc:Better.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Surprisingly, freeways are weird on the weekends, and I don't get it.
Marc:You come from the west side?
Guest:Well, yeah, I'm west side.
Marc:All the way?
Guest:Yeah, I took a bunch of freeways.
Guest:I made it.
Guest:It's fine.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what's happening with the roads, but I do know when you drive them and there's no cars on them, you're like, oh, this is how it was supposed to be.
Guest:Yes, this is what they intended.
Guest:We've been shooting nights, and I— It's the best, right?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I'd be, like, feeling sorry for myself getting off at 3 a.m.
Guest:and then just be like, wait a minute.
Guest:I'm flying home.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:This is the greatest.
Marc:It's great.
Guest:Yeah, I'm into it.
Marc:I used to wake—when I lived in Highland Park, I'd wake up early on Sunday mornings to go to the Hollywood Y to do a yoga class.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And there was nobody.
Marc:And the 110 is the best.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because I've heard, it may not be true, that the reason it's so curvy is because it's one of the oldest highways in the country, and they made it curvy to make it fun.
Guest:What?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You knew people with your new cars.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Go out and curve around.
Guest:Like a Route 66 thing.
Marc:Well, just like a little country adventure.
Guest:I like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Night shoots.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:Fucking worst.
Guest:Yeah, the worst.
Guest:Just for a couple episodes, but...
Marc:But how much does it fuck you up?
Marc:A lot.
Marc:I can't, I can't, you know, it's very hard for me because I just got, I'm in Vancouver shooting a thing and I, it's very hard for me not to become a complete fucking diva baby fuckhead.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Where you just sort of like, what, how long is it?
Guest:No, because I'm not allowed, but I was doing it, I was screaming on the inside.
Guest:It's a lot.
Guest:It's a lot.
Marc:In your trailer?
Guest:Just the inside of my body.
Guest:My face was bright red, but I had a smile on my face.
Marc:You're not allowed?
Marc:Is that a personal rule?
Marc:It's a personal rule.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:All these people are out here, too.
Guest:I mean, what am I going to do?
Guest:I'm tired.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are you tired?
Marc:I know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Last night I was on set.
Marc:I didn't know if it was going to go.
Guest:Last night in Vancouver?
Guest:Did you fly in today?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, geez.
Guest:We could have just Zoomed this.
Marc:No, I don't Zoom.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Can't do it.
Marc:All right.
Marc:It's not the same.
Guest:You want to feel my energy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I appreciate that.
Marc:And also, I think the pace of things.
Guest:Yeah, it slows you down.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I did Zoom during COVID, and we may do.
Marc:It wasn't Zoom.
Marc:It was some other thing.
Marc:And it was okay, but you can't get the— Oh, it didn't win you over.
Guest:I was like, have you ever done it?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:Yeah, no, I have.
Marc:But, yeah, so I was on the set last night, and I had to just surrender to this idea.
Marc:Like, all right, so fuck.
Marc:It's just going to be what it is.
Guest:This is where we are.
Guest:This is why you're drinking coffee at 5 p.m.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:But I'm not tired.
Guest:Good.
Marc:I'm completely engaged.
Guest:Don't you dare complain.
Marc:I'm here, too.
Marc:I'm not—
Marc:What are you shooting?
Marc:The detective show?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's it called again?
Marc:High Potential.
Marc:I watched a pilot.
Guest:Did you?
Marc:I did.
Guest:You watched the whole thing?
Marc:The whole pilot?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What am I, a fucking idiot?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:That's very kind.
Marc:No, I made it through three minutes, and you were really good, but I just couldn't get it.
Guest:I watched a trailer.
Guest:It was great.
Marc:I just couldn't get through the show.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You seem funny, though.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:No, that's all I got, I think, is the pilot.
Guest:Oh, nice.
Marc:So you're still shooting the first season?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, so is it going to be like a regularly distributed TV show, like week to week?
Marc:Is it on now?
Guest:No, we premiere September 17th on ABC.
Marc:Oh, so it's going to be like a real TV show.
Guest:It's ABC, I know, and then Hulu.
Marc:Okay, but it's not like, here are your 10 episodes, now wait a year.
Guest:Yeah, 13 as of right now, and we're on 11.
Marc:But spaced out, like week to week.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:I think that's a good way.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because then this whole idea of, well, you did Hacks, too, where you're like, okay, that was great.
Marc:I watched that in two days, so it'll be a year and a half.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Bad.
Guest:Yeah, that's rough and hard to wait for.
Marc:Always Sunny wasn't like that, was it?
Guest:Always Sunny is on FX.
Marc:How many seasons?
Marc:90?
Marc:90.
Guest:97.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Good for you.
Guest:Yeah, Danny's very old.
Guest:Very, very old, man.
Marc:Barely getting around.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Waddling around.
Guest:Yeah, we just wheel him onto set and throw him on the bar.
Guest:It's going to end up that way.
Marc:Eventually, you're going to get to that.
Guest:It might.
Guest:You're still doing it, though, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:We wrap High Potential in October and then start shooting Sunny the next week, season 17.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So whose idea was—what was High Potential?
Marc:That just was a casting thing?
Marc:Or you know the people that wrote it?
Marc:Because it's a great role.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:No, it's a French show that these guys were— It's a remake.
Guest:It's a remake.
Guest:And they asked me if I would do it, and we went and had lunch, and we talked about it.
Marc:French guys?
Guest:No, sorry, Drew Goddard and Goddard Textiles.
Guest:And he wrote, you know, it's based off that show.
Guest:So he wrote the pilot and I really fell in love with the pilot.
Guest:Really didn't want to do an ABC show.
Guest:No.
Guest:I'm not a network gal.
Marc:Why, because you're filthy?
Guest:I'm not filthy, Mark.
Guest:I just am smarter than that.
Guest:No, I just want to say what I want to say and I don't want to, you know, be handcuffed.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:What's hard when you do a show that you have so much creative input on for so long where you look at scripts and you're kind of like, no, I can't.
Marc:It's got to come out of my face.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Whatever that is.
Guest:Which is why I had to produce this show because I was like, it won't come out of my face.
Guest:So I got to like tweak stuff.
Yeah.
Marc:Generally, I mean, it's been I don't know what like I'm working on this show and there's been moments.
Marc:I just tell them it's like this.
Marc:They wouldn't say this.
Marc:This was a good idea on paper by some writer wanted to button a scene.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:What is this line?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And yes.
Guest:And so now we have a very good relationship where I'm like, you know, sometimes I don't have time to be.
Guest:As savvy and polite as I want to.
Guest:So I'm just going to say I can't say this.
Guest:I just I don't think I could ever do a project again where I'm not able to like tweak stuff because I got to make it.
Marc:Well, yeah, you got it.
Marc:Well, especially if you get the character.
Marc:Yeah, because I think a lot of times writers and I'm not knocking them.
Marc:But, you know, especially when you're doing shows like that, where it's comedy, but it's couched in a serious thing.
Guest:Yeah, it's got to be serious.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So if you're going along as a writer and you're making that balance, and all of a sudden you're like, you just put one of these fairly standard one-liner kind of jokes in, it just sits there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're like, what is that?
Guest:It stands out.
Guest:And guess who looks bad?
Guest:Not the writer.
Guest:No.
Guest:This guy.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:But it's an interesting take.
Marc:It's not like Columbo, but it's a take on the...
Marc:Some sort of neurodivergent detective, not like Monk either, because he's OCD.
Marc:You're like a genius.
Guest:She's just super smart, but not like that proud of it.
Guest:It's just part of who she is.
Guest:It's not what she's flaunting.
Guest:She's mostly just like a single mom who's just trying to get by.
Marc:Who has this paralyzing gift of incredible intuition and OCD.
Marc:What do they call it on the show?
Guest:High Potential Intellectual.
Guest:That's the French name, HPI.
Marc:Is that a real thing?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I haven't heard that term in the neurodivergent work that I've done.
Marc:Yeah, it doesn't seem neurodivergent as much as it's some sort of OCD thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she, yeah, it's like she has a super high intelligence and photographic memory, but things will drive her crazy if they don't make sense.
Guest:And she's got to make sense of it, which is why she'll stay focused on some things.
Marc:How long ago did you do the pilot as opposed to when it started filming?
Marc:Do you feel distanced from the pilot?
Marc:Are you like, well, you should see it now.
Marc:It's different.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:It was a long time ago, but I still love the pilot.
Guest:I think it's a great episode.
Guest:It was last March, so we had the writer's strike.
Marc:I haven't seen that guy who's in it with you.
Marc:I was like looking at him like, I know that guy.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Daniel Sunjata.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's because I have a mild obsession with I don't know what it means, but I can watch the Devil Wears Prada like anytime.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Is he in that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, good for him.
Marc:He plays the designer, one of the clothing designers.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I didn't know that.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Talk to him about that.
Marc:You got a problem with the Devil Wears Prada?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't have any problem with Devil's Prada.
Guest:Have you seen it?
Guest:I was just going to say, I don't even know if I've seen it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Maybe that's what it is.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think it's because of Anne Hathaway.
Guest:I've seen it.
Guest:I have seen it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And Emily Blunt.
Guest:They're both great.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a funny movie.
Guest:Yeah, it's a good movie.
Guest:It's surprisingly funny.
Guest:I love knowing that one of your favorite movies is Devil's Prada.
Marc:You know, it's one of those ones where I've admitted to it.
Marc:But, you know, when you're a certain type of person, you know, saying that is sort of like coming out.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Do you also like Showgirls?
Guest:No.
Guest:Are you one of those guys?
Guest:If that comes on, do you need to watch it?
Marc:No.
Marc:That's that horrible movie about the stripper?
Guest:Yeah, that's that one.
Marc:No, that's nothing for me.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:No.
Marc:Devil Wears Prada, I'll do that one.
Guest:That'll do it.
Marc:I'll do that over and over again.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:And it seems that I'll do Silver Linings Playbook pretty frequently.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Training Day, I'll watch anytime.
Guest:It's a great movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Michael Clayton, I talk about a lot.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:A lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I think I've given that a whole new life.
Marc:But, so, Hacks...
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:We can talk about that, too, because you're great in that.
Marc:And this is like an Emmy nomination.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you've gotten one before.
Guest:This is my second one for Hacks.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, but never for Sonny.
Guest:Never for Sonny.
Marc:Has that gotten any love from the Emmys?
Guest:Nobody's been nominated for anything.
Marc:Ever.
Guest:No.
Guest:We had our stunt coordinator get nominated, I think, twice.
Marc:Isn't that interesting?
Marc:It seems like one of those shows that'll probably be on so long, they'll have to give it a special award.
Guest:It'll get, yeah, it'll get like a lifetime achievement something or other, but never any.
Marc:The only one ever given to a series.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But none for us, no.
Marc:So with Hacks, like, I'm very excited.
Marc:Like, I know, Hannah, I just interviewed Downs.
Guest:Oh, yeah, Paul.
Yeah.
Marc:Paul.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Very smart show.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I don't even know how that happens.
Marc:Do you?
Guest:It's rare, which is why I jumped on it.
Guest:I was very excited about it.
Marc:Really?
Marc:When you got offered it and you read it and you're like, holy shit.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I got a call from Mike Schur who was like, listen, they want you to do this small part.
Guest:In this show that they've been working on for years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love them.
Guest:I trust them.
Guest:I'm not involved.
Guest:I'm just here to kind of like Shepard.
Guest:He's EPing.
Guest:They are so.
Marc:He's the guy from The Office?
Guest:Mike Schur.
Marc:Mike Schur.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's like showrun.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm thinking of Greg Daniels.
Guest:You're thinking of Greg Daniels.
Guest:They're all the same.
Marc:Yeah, they are.
Guest:Including Rob McElhaney.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but I read the script and was like, it's just so hard to be that funny and that smart.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Everything is so well-developed.
Marc:When I watch shows like that, I'm like, how much did you know going into the second season?
Guest:Yes, that you were going to do all this.
Marc:How are you that organized?
Marc:I'm not.
Marc:Sunny just seems like you guys kind of put it together in a week or two.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Sunny, you just look around the world and see what's going on, and then you have a ton of water.
Marc:It's almost like an ongoing vaudeville.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But also smart.
Guest:No, of course.
Marc:I will argue.
Marc:No, I think it's smart, but you have these characters where you can just fill them up.
Marc:It's ridiculous.
Marc:It's almost like South Park.
Marc:How does that keep going?
Guest:It's so good.
Marc:If you know it, you know these people.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And then you can just run funny through all of them all the time.
Marc:Fuck it.
Guest:And you can change them.
Guest:They can completely change their point of view, and it's not a problem at all.
Marc:They can become huge.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:For a season?
Marc:Ripped.
Marc:Gay.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:And then you come back and just do it.
Guest:Straight.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, that audience must be almost cult-like at this point.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That audience is very cult-like.
Guest:And the people who have been watching it from the beginning are very vocal about it.
Guest:And they're very angry with the people who jumped on six, seven seasons in.
Marc:Oh, newbies?
Guest:Yeah, newbies.
Guest:New fans?
Guest:From a decade ago.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Marc:you guys don't know what you're fucking talking about yeah and then but now it's crazy because it's like you talk to people who they weren't allowed to watch it because they were kids right right yeah and then they got their hands on it when they left for college and now they're old yeah i get some of those emails you know when i was 16 i started listening and you got me through a lot of stuff and you're like i don't want to hear that i'm 29 now and i graduated college and you're on death's door no no
Marc:I don't know how I became 60.
Marc:I don't know how it happened.
Guest:I don't either.
Marc:Now, were you there at the beginning of that, Sunny?
Guest:Not the very beginning.
Guest:I'm the only one who auditioned for it.
Guest:So those guys created it and then they cast the Sweet D character.
Marc:The three guys and Danny.
Guest:No, not Danny.
Guest:Danny came along in season two.
Marc:See, right now fans are trolling me.
Guest:They're so mad at you.
Guest:There's a Reddit right now.
Guest:They're so angry with you.
Marc:The only funny Reddit is like, fucking Marc Maron doesn't know anything about it.
Guest:They didn't want, we didn't want, we, I had nothing to do with it.
Guest:They didn't want to bring on a big star.
Guest:It was John Landgraf's idea because he wanted to keep it on the air.
Guest:And he was like, I love the show.
Guest:Critics love the show.
Guest:Zero people are watching the show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we got to bring like a big star.
Guest:So Landgraf thought that?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:It was his idea.
Guest:And so the guys were like, absolutely not.
Guest:And then he was like, well, what about Danny DeVito?
Guest:Because they worked together in Jersey films.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the guys went over and met with him and he was insane.
Guest:And they were like, well, this will work.
Guest:How are you not going to cast that guy?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:They were like, you're hired.
Guest:And he was like, well, I'll let you know if I want the job.
Guest:And they were like, no, no, you're hired.
Marc:You're...
Marc:Because I think I've talked to everybody else, right?
Marc:I think so.
Marc:To Rob and Glenn.
Marc:Glenn and Charlie.
Marc:Yeah, I remember Glenn, every once in a while, at least once or twice a year, I think about Glenn coming over and having to shit so badly.
Guest:Here?
Marc:No, at the other house.
Guest:That tracks.
Marc:Smaller house.
Guest:One bathroom in the house.
Guest:Oh, God.
Marc:I don't know what was going on, but he was very apologetic.
Guest:He's a lot of roughage.
Guest:He's very into his fibers and his supplements and nutrients.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very, very nutrition based.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how's everyone doing?
Guest:Well, we all know what his poop smells like.
Guest:Do you mean, is that what you mean?
Guest:His gastrointestinal system is great.
Guest:Very healthy GI.
Yeah.
Marc:But how are the fellas holding up?
Guest:They're good.
Guest:Everyone's great.
Guest:Everyone's doing different projects.
Guest:And then we kind of like we do sunny where we can fit it in in the year where we all have time.
Marc:That's how it works?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:You're not under a requirement to deliver?
Guest:Nah.
Marc:No?
Guest:You're syndicated.
Guest:Just give us a season when you can.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're so lucky.
Marc:And Rob, you're married to him.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How's that?
Marc:Good?
Guest:It's fine.
Marc:Yeah.
It's fine.
Guest:It's awesome.
Guest:He's the best.
Marc:He's a good guy.
Guest:He's a really good guy.
Marc:But when you say other projects with him, didn't he buy a team or something?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a co-owner of Wrexham AFC.
Guest:And he has a show called Welcome to Wrexham on FX.
Guest:And it's really good.
Guest:And if you haven't seen it, I'm not just saying that.
Guest:It's really, really good.
Guest:You'll love it.
Marc:And is Ryan Reynolds involved in that?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:So Rob and Ryan are co-chairmen.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:And they do the show together.
Marc:So you hang out with Ryan?
Guest:He lives in New York, and he's always—that man travels more than—no, we don't hang out.
Guest:I've hung out with him a couple of times.
Marc:I think—I was talking about it the other day.
Marc:I think he genuinely seems like a good guy.
Guest:He's a very good guy.
Marc:And I think it's a Canadian thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I think that a Canadian asshole, like the worst Canadian asshole, is about half an American asshole.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:They're still very polite.
Guest:They just quietly don't like you.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:But they're also, they don't have the same type of ego.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, he's really great.
Guest:He's got a great relationship with his mom.
Guest:He's got a wonderful marriage.
Guest:He loves his kids.
Marc:Isn't that weird how that goes from right there to that?
Marc:Great guy.
Marc:Nice relationship with his mom.
Guest:Well, listen, I think that's important.
Guest:How do you treat your mom, Mark?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I got to call her.
Marc:She's kind of falling apart.
Guest:How about you?
Guest:Oh, I love her.
Guest:I would talk to my mom on the way over.
Marc:So you have a great relationship with your mom.
Guest:I do.
Guest:And my dad.
Marc:And your dad.
Marc:They're together.
Guest:They're together.
Marc:What is that about?
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Guest:I know.
Guest:They've been together for 50, over 50 years.
Marc:How does that even happen?
Marc:That's unheard of.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:And this is the wild part.
Guest:They met on her birthday, which is in July, and they got married in September of the same year.
Guest:She turned 21.
Marc:How many kids?
Guest:Me or my mom?
Guest:Or both of us together?
Marc:Your mom, how many?
Guest:They have two.
Guest:I have a big brother.
Marc:A big brother?
Guest:He's a year older than me.
Marc:And she had him pretty quick?
Guest:Yeah, immediately.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So 22, 23?
Marc:That's same with my mom.
Marc:So you have relatively young parents?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:I'm so grateful.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, sometimes...
Marc:You kind of grow up with them.
Guest:You grow up with them and they're like, they're super healthy and they take care of themselves and each other.
Guest:And they're like, yeah, they're really like young, 70 somethings.
Marc:So you had a nice, healthy childhood.
Guest:I had a great family life.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Geez, that doesn't happen in comedy too often.
Guest:Oh, I had other, I had other horrible things.
Guest:Don't worry.
Guest:There's a reason.
Guest:Why are you so funny if you're not fucked up?
Guest:I know, I know.
Guest:You got mad, but slow down.
Guest:Yeah, no, my parents were awesome.
Guest:I was very shy.
Guest:I got in a really bad accident when I was 12.
Guest:12?
Guest:Yes, going from elementary school the summer right before junior high school.
Guest:I smashed my face up and the bike landed on my head and punched a hole in my head.
Guest:So I had a mostly shaved head going into junior high.
Guest:Yeah, just like a big fryer tuck.
Guest:It's really nice.
Guest:Yeah, it's very humbling.
Marc:So you were fucked up for like all four years at junior high?
Guest:Four years.
Guest:No, I was fucked up until like...
Guest:Pretty much a couple years after college.
Guest:I was a mess for a while.
Guest:It takes a long time for hair to grow out, and then you've got to fix the crippling self-esteem issues.
Marc:But what happened to your head?
Guest:Oh, I was going down a hill on my bike, and I slammed on the front brake.
Marc:And you went right over?
Marc:Yeah, I flew right over.
Guest:Yeah, it landed on my head.
Guest:That was the hole.
Marc:It was a handlebar.
Marc:Did you go face first into the— Face first.
Guest:I didn't have any scratches on my hands, so this whole—like, my top lip had to be reconstructed, but all my teeth stayed attached, but they were in the back of my throat.
Guest:They had to be, like, pulled forward and sewed together, and it was nasty.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it didn't break your skull?
Guest:It did.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Yeah, the bike landed, the handlebar landed on my head.
Marc:And so no brain damage?
Guest:Nope.
Guest:I mean, no brain damage.
Guest:Because you're doing really good for brain damage.
Guest:Thank you so much.
Guest:I appreciate that.
Marc:It's a testament to you.
Marc:This is going to be empowering for a lot of people.
Guest:That's very kind.
Guest:A lot of people with brain damage are going to be inspired by this.
Marc:Concussion?
Marc:Did you go out?
Guest:I sadly didn't go out.
Guest:I was very much awake.
Marc:Just bloody and awake.
Guest:Yeah, and still going downhill, so just watching a river of blood just go down the hill.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:And I was with a friend, and she went into shock and started hyperventilating and not knowing what to do, so I just calmly tried to get her to go, because I was just very calm.
Guest:But you couldn't talk, right?
Guest:Barely.
Guest:So I somehow managed to get her to go knock on a door, and it was a whole thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then they panicked.
Guest:Instead of calling 911, they drove me to my parents' house.
Guest:My parents drove me to the emergency room.
Guest:It was a whole thing.
Marc:She called her parents?
Guest:She knocked on a door.
Guest:In my 12-year-old memory, a boy came out with a towel and tossed me a towel and then went back in and shut the door.
Marc:That's a good memory.
Guest:And I don't know if it was for like applying direct pressure to the gaping wound in my face or head.
Guest:I don't know what it was for, but I was like, I don't know what to do with this towel.
Guest:And then my friend rode her bike home to her mom and her mom came and picked me up and they drove me home.
Guest:This is like podunk outside of Portland, Oregon.
Guest:I think everybody was a young parent who didn't know how to parent.
Marc:Didn't know where the hospital was.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Or where 911 buttons were on a telephone.
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:We've never circled back and closed that chapter.
Marc:No ambulance?
Guest:I think there were.
Guest:I remember seeing ambulances around.
Marc:So that was the defining trauma?
Guest:That was it, yeah.
Marc:That and recovering from that?
Guest:Yeah, it took a while, you know.
Marc:You had to learn how to become a funny, bald person?
No.
Guest:Yeah, much less.
Guest:I don't even – there was no direct correlation.
Guest:I just tried to hide for about four or five years.
Guest:That's so bad.
Guest:And then I was standing in line for lunch and Casey Johnson was trying to throw jelly bellies at me to see if he could get it into the hole in my head because everybody knew.
Guest:Fucking Casey.
Guest:Fucking Casey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think anything good happened to Casey Johnson.
Marc:No.
Marc:Jelly bellies.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was the time of jelly bellies.
Guest:It was the time of jelly bellies.
Guest:And it was also the time of the, you know, everyone not knowing or not wanting to ask me what happened because I was a freak show, but just hearing that there was a hole in my head.
Marc:So that's all they knew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So hence the jelly.
Guest:There was a jelly belly bowl in the top of my head, apparently.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you get one in?
Guest:I think it just bounced off of me.
Marc:What?
Marc:Where did you grow up?
Guest:Outside of Portland, Oregon, a little tiny town called Tigard.
Marc:But you had good family.
Guest:Great family.
Guest:Thank God.
Marc:You know, for as long as I've gone to Portland, I've always felt there was something as beautiful as it all is.
Marc:And I love that part of the country.
Marc:I always felt there was a darkness to it.
Guest:Well, Portland's funny because it's very like the whole Pacific Northwest is pretty liberal.
Guest:There's a lot of hippies.
Guest:My parents went through it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then you go like 20 minutes east and then you got shotguns in the back of trucks.
Guest:And yeah, it changes pretty quickly.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And did you grow up in that?
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:So you were a hippie?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We like lived off the land for a while.
Guest:My mom's like a big gardener.
Guest:Now she's an herbalist and has a really successful business.
Guest:But she at the time it was just like.
Marc:Your mom's an herbalist too?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's two?
Marc:Are you?
Marc:No.
Marc:I just talked to somebody else whose mom was an herbalist.
Marc:Another actress.
Marc:I've got to remember who that was.
Guest:Wow, she and I should be friends.
Marc:Oh, it was Nicholson.
Guest:Jack?
Marc:No.
Marc:I'm spacing her first name.
Guest:Oh, she's going to be so pissed.
Guest:Let's look it up.
Guest:Yeah, she's an herbalist and she owns a company called Earth Mama Organics.
Marc:No, she's the best actress.
Guest:No, I am.
Marc:Well, yeah, but I mean... I'm confused.
Guest:Do you want us to hate each other or love each other?
Marc:Well, I want you guys to get together and discuss your parents, Julianne Nicholson.
Guest:Oh, nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, you know her, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:She's in Black Mask.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:She's just in this new Annie Baker movie.
Marc:She's great.
Marc:That's cool.
Marc:But her mom is also... That's very cool.
Guest:How weird.
Guest:Isn't that interesting?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And Moon Zappa opened a tea company.
Guest:There's a lot of... There's a lot of herbs in your life.
Marc:A lot of things coming together here.
Guest:This is nice.
Marc:So were they real hippies?
Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, they had jobs.
Guest:But like I said, they met when they were 21.
Guest:So they were, yes, at the time they were hippies.
Guest:In like the 60s?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:Huh.
Guest:No?
Marc:Not a little later.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It would have been early 70s.
Marc:And you grew up in like what?
Marc:Like weed around and that kind of stuff?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not that kind of?
Guest:No, not that much.
Guest:I mean, I believe my dad smoked some weed.
Marc:What did he do?
Guest:He's a publisher.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Yeah, I worked at a newspaper.
Marc:A newspaper publisher?
Marc:Small town newspaper or big?
Guest:He worked for a paper called the Portland Tribune, which is no longer in publication right now.
Guest:Are any of them in publication?
Guest:No, I don't think so.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I think that's one of the reasons everything's falling apart.
Guest:The newspapers are gone.
Marc:Small town newspapers.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Regional newspapers.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Where people can know what's going on and know their neighbor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And think about all the paper boys that can't have jobs.
Marc:Can't start out that way.
Guest:No way.
Marc:Just online looking at the wrong stuff.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Getting real sidetracked.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:If only they were out there on their bikes.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:At five in the morning.
Guest:Slamming on the front brake.
Marc:Throwing papers at doors.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:We'd live in a different country.
Marc:So when does the funny shit start?
Marc:When does the acting start?
Guest:During the summers, I would do theater at a camp, just a summer camp.
Marc:You didn't live in Spokane?
Guest:I did live in Spokane when I was a baby.
Marc:Oh, so you don't remember Spokane?
Guest:I don't really remember Spokane.
Marc:I got questions about that.
Guest:You got Spokane questions?
Guest:I do.
Guest:That place is... Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I think that's...
Guest:That went a little conservative quickly, too.
Marc:Well, it's like it's such a charming place.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But not unlike much of Washington.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know, just beyond the charm is like it's either meth or Nazis.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't know where it starts and what part of the woods.
Guest:You know, it'll sneak up on you.
Guest:You got to be really careful.
Guest:They don't have a map for it.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:It's tricky.
Marc:But when you come upon it, it's very intense.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, then that's when you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I really kind of loved it being in Spokane, but I didn't feel particularly safe there for no reason other than I. Your hair is a teeny bit longer.
Marc:Well, I mean, it's not even that, you know, it's just, you know, in current times, my concern is like, am I reading Jew?
Guest:Am I reading too Jewish?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You never know.
Marc:I don't think so.
Guest:They'll ask you.
Guest:I don't think you're reading Jew enough.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:You ask me.
Marc:Well, I can turn it on.
Guest:Okay, good.
Marc:If you were a Jew sitting right there, I'd be speaking fluent Jew.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Just in intonation.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Not Hebrew.
Guest:Oh, good.
Marc:Because I don't know anything about Hebrew.
Guest:I would be confused.
Guest:Most of my Jewish friends wouldn't understand you if you were speaking Hebrew.
Marc:Yeah, no, of course not.
Marc:Or Yiddish.
Marc:But there'll be a slight change in my intonation.
Guest:I understand.
Marc:I talked to Larry David and I became about that age and that Jewish.
Guest:Yeah, I can see that.
Guest:You're a comedian.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Take it on.
Marc:But not all of us do.
Marc:I don't know what that I think that part of my personality has made me a pretty good interviewer, but I don't think it helps otherwise.
Marc:This immediate need to be an appendage of whoever you're talking to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Just be a complete.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like a Siamese twin.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I don't know what that is.
Marc:I don't think it comes from a well-parented place.
Guest:Not a stable place.
Guest:No.
Yeah.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So you're there and you, where did we start?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I did, I did some, I did theater in a summer camp, even before the accident always, but it was way too, I was very, very shy as a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And theater took you out of yourself kind of too?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:We did Shakespeare.
Guest:We did everything as like, yeah.
Guest:And yeah, it was Alice and Alice in Wonderland.
Guest:So when you were like 12, 13?
Yeah.
Guest:It must have been before that because the accident was 12.
Guest:So it must have been like 9, 10, 11.
Guest:It was just for fun.
Guest:Whatever.
Marc:So Lady Macbeth at 9.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Take it easy.
Guest:I didn't say that.
Guest:I was Kate in Taming of the Shrew.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:But still, that's pretty impressive for a child.
Marc:It is very impressive to remember that stuff.
Guest:And then junior high, I wanted to audition for plays, but it was a freak show.
Marc:Any play that didn't have cancer or wheelchair?
Guest:No, cancer would have been fine because that wouldn't have worked because my head wasn't fully shaved.
Guest:I had some semblance of bangs and then a perimeter and just a giant circle right on the top.
Marc:Well, wasn't there a discussion maybe like should we just take it all off?
Guest:There was.
Guest:I remember a discussion in the hospital where the doctor was like, we didn't know if you'd want us to just shave the whole thing.
Guest:And I was like, well, no, absolutely not.
Guest:I'm like a 12-year-old girl.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In hindsight, I should have gotten rid of the strands.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because that just makes it even more tragic.
Guest:You know, it didn't work.
Guest:And I should have figured that out a couple months later.
Guest:Later.
Guest:I never did.
Guest:I just let it grow all in.
Marc:Yeah, that's good.
Marc:But it came back.
Marc:So you're doing theater as a young person.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then in high school, I had the nerve to start auditioning for stuff.
Guest:So in high school.
Marc:In Portland.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, Tigard.
Marc:Tigard.
Guest:Anyone in Portland is going to go, it wasn't Portland, it was Tigard, which is like 15 minutes away, but a very different town.
Marc:So you're in Tigard and a lot of roles coming up or?
Guest:Yeah, so I started acting all the time in high school.
Guest:Now my hair's pretty much grown in at this point.
Guest:Casey Johnson, I don't think he's throwing jelly bellies at me anymore.
Marc:Casey Johnson might be in jail.
Guest:We don't know.
Guest:I think he might be.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Not a good kid.
Guest:Yeah, that's psychotic behavior.
Guest:Yeah, he'll email me.
Guest:He'll write it.
Guest:Yeah, and then I did.
Guest:Then I went to University of Oregon for acting.
Marc:For the whole four years?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And you did like massive training?
Marc:Where is that?
Marc:It's in Portland?
Guest:It's in Eugene.
Marc:Eugene.
Guest:Speaking of hippies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So was that a period in your life where you became that?
Guest:Yeah, that was, I also discovered alcohol in college.
Guest:So then I really came out of my shell.
Guest:That was helpful.
Guest:Hair's back.
Guest:Until it wasn't.
Guest:Yeah, the hair's back.
Guest:The beer's there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're in hippie town.
Guest:And I was in hippie town.
Marc:Was there any sort of Grateful Dead action?
Guest:No, no.
Marc:No, you were more.
Guest:No.
Marc:Like rock and roll.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I wasn't, I wasn't into jam bands.
Marc:You're a loud girl.
Guest:Yeah, I think Salt-N-Pepa I was really into at the time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Run DMC.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was in elementary school.
Marc:You and like four other drunk girls doing Run DMC.
Guest:Oh, just so loudly.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I remember the Pulp Fiction soundtrack was big then.
Guest:Son of a Preacher Man we danced to.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So it was all acting.
Marc:You didn't get any other education?
Yeah.
Guest:There were some requirements.
Guest:I was a very good student.
Guest:I was a very good student.
Guest:Well, I felt attacked, so I'll have you know I'm a smart person.
Marc:I just was making a joke.
Marc:Well, it didn't land.
Marc:It did.
Guest:You laughed.
Guest:You've got time to try again.
Marc:i thought it landed pretty hard oh and then you you know you i lashed out you did a little yeah but that's about as that's me being defensive um diplomatic that's good yeah that's why you're you stay in working i go to therapy you know i'm self-aware oh my god how's that it's great penelope thank god for she great oh she's so good do you have you gone a long time or do you do you go when you're like oh fuck i gotta go back
Guest:I started going to her a couple, like three years ago.
Guest:And I'll go for a while and then we'll take breaks when things are good.
Guest:And then I'll call her and be like, well, things are not good.
Marc:Isn't that the way it goes?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I know people, like I've gone to therapy on and off, you know, my whole life.
Marc:I feel like it.
Marc:But when you get older, you're just sort of like, all right, I got to go work this through.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Whatever it is.
Guest:Well, I've been to therapy...
Guest:I mean, I was put in therapy.
Guest:There are some therapists who are like, we aren't just going to stop.
Guest:There will be a process of like uncoupling or whatever.
Guest:And I was like, I don't like that at all.
Guest:Penelope doesn't do that.
Guest:She's like, no, if you're busy, don't.
Guest:And just text me when you need to talk.
Marc:Well, there's a weird moment you have sometimes when you realize that therapists –
Marc:Like you can kind of do whatever you want with it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's not it's it's it's important.
Marc:I think it's good.
Marc:But somebody gets a Ph.D.
Marc:in psychology and they can just sort of like, you know, put their shingle up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then kind of work it out.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:It's not like they're they're not held to.
Marc:I mean, there are standards, but, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then sometimes it's sort of like, why do I trust this person?
Guest:I've had some horrible things said to me by therapists where I'm like, I don't think you're allowed to say that.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And then you realize, oh, they're just people with a master's degree.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:And at a certain point, it's like, oh, it's just a business.
Guest:Like, you don't want me to cancel my appointment because you want my 200 bucks or whatever it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think a lot of people don't catch on to that.
Marc:I think that there is this idea that you just go.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that no matter what, you go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:If I do a couple sessions and I'm like, I honestly can't think of anything to talk about, then we're good for now.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My buddy's in couple therapy and his wife doesn't go anymore.
Guest:Oh, I have some advice for him.
Marc:No, they're still together and it's fine.
Marc:But but like he just never he has not separated from that therapist.
Guest:Oh, they're fine.
Guest:And he's like, I got it.
Guest:We have a standing appointment.
Guest:Someone's got to go.
Marc:Kind of.
Marc:I just love it.
Marc:I mean, I think it's kind of a hilarious part of a movie if he could do that.
Guest:That's pretty great.
Marc:Where she just decided, like, I'm done with this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He can't break up with the therapist.
Guest:I have no obligation to this woman.
Guest:You keep seeing her.
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Guest:I do like that.
Marc:But you like Penelope.
Guest:I love Penelope.
Guest:She's very helpful.
Marc:Yeah, just cognitive, matter of fact, you know, maybe look at it like this, take this action kind of shit.
Guest:Yeah, and like noticing patterns and, yeah, and like this is the same thing you did with your mom or whatever when you were little, you know, stuff like that.
Marc:Over and over again.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you're like, oh, shit, that's true.
Guest:You got to recognize those patterns.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And then you say thank you, and then a year later you're like, I'm back in the same part of the pattern.
Guest:You remember that pattern we talked about?
Guest:I'm doing that again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm at the exact same place I was the last time I got a good six months.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So what happens after, you know, the big acting degree and your parents are cool?
Marc:They're like, yeah, acting great.
Guest:My parents are awesome and very supportive.
Guest:But I think they I think they were like, wait, what are you going to go do?
Guest:They were terrified, but they knew to be supportive after college.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What was the plan?
Guest:No, even just going to college.
Guest:Because my plan, honestly, I didn't feel like, oh, I need to go learn about acting.
Guest:I just was not ready to move to Los Angeles.
Guest:I was very young.
Marc:But you knew that was in the cards?
Guest:Yeah, that was my plan.
Guest:I just wanted a college education and then I wanted to move to L.A.
Guest:And they were like, um.
Guest:And my dad, because he was a journalist, had all these relationships with
Guest:reporters and there was a woman who was a reporter on the news and he was like well you want to be on TV you could get a journalism degree like he did and you know and she she's a you know she does the news and then she also does plays so we would go see her in Little Shop of Horrors and then we would have a meeting with her about like her journalism and I was like dad I don't want to just be on a TV set like in someone's box in their living room I'd like to act
Marc:With nice hair.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I moved here for the hairstylist.
Guest:We joke about that now because, yeah, I didn't.
Guest:Margie Boulay was a wonderful woman, but I didn't want to be a newscaster who did Little Shop of Horrors.
Marc:You needed an outfit for every day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:I don't even know what the rotation is on outfits for local newscasters.
Guest:That's insane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can wear it once and then it goes right in the trash.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Or you got to take it back.
Marc:You got to wait two months.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do they even ever recycle?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But what's the budget for wardrobe on local news?
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Are they dressing themselves?
Guest:Are they being dressed?
Guest:I don't know about this.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm just thinking about it out loud now.
Marc:Was it a morning show or was she like the six o'clock?
Guest:No, she was.
Guest:I think she was more like six o'clock news.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's like your question.
Marc:You're on for like, you know, what, a total of nine minutes with a new outfit every day.
Guest:That's got to be expensive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Especially if you're paying for it for yourself.
Marc:A lot of clothes.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't, like, when I'm doing, when I'm, like, in a show, like, this show that I'm in now, this guy, most of the show takes place on the road.
Marc:Like, it's a journey.
Marc:And I'm going in for fittings every block.
Marc:And I'm like, how big do you think this guy's suitcase is?
Yeah.
Marc:I mean, we're in a trailer.
Guest:And also, what's his personality?
Guest:Does he need to throw away his jeans after wearing them one?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like just how many, like, but no one notices that when you're watching it.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And it's funny that this is an argument we get in, not an argument, but it's something we bring up on Sonny all the time because it's unheard of for a stylist to let you wear the same clothes over and over.
Guest:And they'd be out of work.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But Charlie Day, very famously, wears the exact same jeans and shoes and shirts that he did before.
Marc:From season one.
Guest:From season one.
Guest:They just wash them.
Guest:They just wash them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's insane.
Guest:It's a completely different style, but it's perfect.
Marc:So he literally has not changed his quote.
Guest:Yeah, he's got like a wardrobe.
Guest:Maybe there's like a new shirt that pops in every once in a while, but make it look old.
Marc:Yeah, and it's a bit for the new shirt.
Guest:Right.
Marc:All right, so your dad has you meet the news lady.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and now we laugh.
Guest:Anytime I get like nominated for something or something big happens, I'll send it to him and be like, you run this by Margie Boulay, see if she's cool.
Guest:Are they still friends?
Guest:I don't think so.
Marc:It's a good name.
Guest:It's a great name.
Marc:Yeah, it sounds like French Canadian.
Marc:So in college, are you doing a lot of plays?
Marc:Are you in an improv group?
Marc:You did it all.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Plays and improv group.
Guest:Plays and improv.
Marc:Scene study.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A lot of crying.
Guest:I'm going to be honest.
Guest:It was a big Shakespeare college, and our director, who I believe is still the director there, was very Shakespeare-focused.
Marc:That's so good, though, because that's, like, the hardest stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, and it was great training, but all of our, like, you know—
Guest:guest speakers were, um, you know, Shakespearean, they were Shakespearean people from Shakespearean times.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They were, they were like, you know, from Chicago and they, yeah.
Guest:So we, that was great.
Guest:And I was like, are we going to have like, you know, uh,
Marc:Have you done that on Sonny yet?
Marc:Have you done Shakespeare?
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:I did a tiny bit of Shakespeare in that movie, Champions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Bobby Farrelly was like, okay, I just need you to keep going for like a few more lines so that, you know, Woody can respond.
Guest:I'm like, are you asking me to improvise some more iambic pentam?
Guest:I can't do that.
Marc:Now I think I've put something in your head that I think we should see on Always Sonny is that I think you should do a whole season Shakespearean.
Guest:All of us or just my character?
Marc:Yeah, you.
Marc:You get a head injury, and you only speak Shakespearean English.
Guest:That sounds like an absolute nightmare.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Marc:Wouldn't it be funny?
Marc:For one episode?
Guest:I'll do an episode.
Guest:I'll give you one episode.
Guest:Whether they like it or not.
Marc:It would be kind of funny.
Guest:It would be very funny.
Guest:Listen, Dee loves to do characters, so I could also maybe just do some summer stock at some point.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No desire to do Shakespeare?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, I did it, and I was like, this is great.
Guest:This is great.
Marc:But there's no part of you that's sort of like, I want to go to New York, do Shakespeare in the park with some aging actor?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It just wasn't there.
Marc:All right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you get it.
Guest:I get it.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I get it.
Marc:I'm not a huge Shakespeare person, and I've had major English actors do Shakespeare to my face.
Guest:And you're like, okay.
Marc:No, I can never connect with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But when Ian McKellen sitting right there does it at you, you're like, okay.
Guest:You feel the power of it.
Guest:Don't lie and say you understand what he's talking about.
Marc:Well, everyone who likes it is sort of like, well, if you listen, you'll get it.
Marc:It's kind of, you know, you kind of.
Marc:I've gotten totally lost.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'd like to fully understand if I'm, you know, if I'm an audience member.
Guest:Three hours.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I'd like to know what's going on.
Guest:Yeah, not into it.
Guest:Wanted to do TV and movies.
Marc:So what happens?
Marc:So you leave Eugene, you go back to Portland, and you're like, I'm going to L.A.
Guest:My mom gave me her Jeep Cherokee, and I droove.
Guest:I droove?
Marc:You droove.
Guest:I droove right down to Santa Monica.
Marc:That's something I say up north.
Guest:Yeah, well, it's a Shakespearean word.
Guest:You've got me stuck in it.
Marc:Droving.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Droving.
Guest:Middle English.
Guest:Look it up.
Guest:And I moved to Los Angeles and I started at the Groundlings.
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:I just turned 21.
Marc:And what year was that?
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:I'm what?
Guest:97.
Marc:I just tried a picture because you're much younger than me.
Marc:I just want to know what L.A.
Marc:might have looked like.
Guest:Yeah, 97.
Marc:All right, so it's kind of nebulous.
Marc:Because I was here in the late 80s and it was definitely defined.
Marc:There was something about being a doorman at the comedy store in like 86 where it's like, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Hair metal, all kinds of business going on.
Guest:Yeah, the Sunset Strip was quite a thing.
Guest:A bit.
Marc:I think it was sort of dying by the late 80s in a way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But when you got here, what was going on?
Guest:I didn't...
Guest:I just remember driving into Santa Monica and having it because I'm from Oregon.
Guest:I grew up in Oregon.
Guest:It's gray and rainy at all times.
Guest:So I was like, the colors here.
Guest:I don't think anyone can ever be sad in this town.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was so naive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:The groundlings was huge.
Marc:Well, sadness is different here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sadness is very bright here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There is something.
Marc:That's an interesting idea because there's plenty of sadness around.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But it's outdoors.
Guest:Yeah, yes, that's right.
Guest:It's in everyone's faces instead of behind your own bathroom wall.
Marc:And there's some insanely beautiful sadness going on here on all levels of the social spectrum.
Guest:Well, and that's why you film it and you make millions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, show business was still here.
Marc:Did you shoot that show in L.A.?
Marc:The one that's set in L.A.?
Guest:Which one?
Marc:The one you're working on now?
Guest:Right now, yeah.
Marc:Is it all shot here?
Marc:Most of it's in studio?
Yeah.
Guest:Yes, it's on the Fox studio.
Guest:When I got the script, it was set in Jersey, I think, or East Coast somewhere.
Guest:But that first case where I figure out they're in the woods, they had a cabin at the Jersey Shore or something.
Guest:And I was like, I would love to do it, but I have two kids and I'm going to be staying in Los Angeles.
Guest:So they just rewrote it.
Marc:Yeah, that's so good to hear.
Guest:Yeah, it was great.
Marc:Yeah, I don't like spending that much time away.
Guest:No, I love it here.
Marc:But, you know, once you get used to how things are shot, you know, when watching that, you know, you're at the LAPD just cleaning, dancing.
Marc:And then there's like several scenes that happen, I guess, at the back door of the LAPD.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Why not?
Guest:Anywhere on that Fox slot, you can make it.
Marc:This is the back door.
Marc:This is where people go in and out of the LAPD.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:The side door.
Guest:Just put brick around it.
Marc:People will buy it.
Marc:It's fine.
Marc:So you come down here and you love it and you join the ground wings?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Well, that's important.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:Yeah, that was big.
Guest:Made lots of friends and connections.
Guest:Who was your class?
Marc:Like, who was, like, the people that we know?
Guest:Dax Shepard.
Marc:Yeah, I know Dax.
Marc:He's a funny guy.
Guest:He's very funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very good friend.
Marc:He does a version of my show.
Guest:Yeah, he ripped you off.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He at least admits it.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:Yeah, he's pretty honest.
Guest:I do like that about him.
Marc:I think that's part of his thing.
Marc:It's the new Dax.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's the new Dax.
Guest:Sober Dax.
Marc:You knew the old Dax.
Guest:I knew the old Dax.
Guest:How fun was that?
Guest:It was a lot of fun.
Guest:Very unreliable.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Who else was in there?
Guest:Melissa McCarthy and Ben Falcone and Nat Faxon.
Guest:All those guys.
Marc:Really?
Guest:They were in the main company while we were still in classes and Sunday company.
Marc:So you got to see early Melissa McCarthy?
Marc:It was tremendous.
Guest:How fucking funny was that?
Guest:I was obsessed with her.
Guest:Everything she did was so good.
Guest:I just wanted to watch her work.
Guest:She was so good.
Marc:It's crazy, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How funny she is?
Marc:It's insane.
Marc:And her husband's Ben, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also very, very funny.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really funny guy.
Marc:So what was it?
Marc:Did you get to the main stage?
Marc:Did you go all the way through or what did you do?
Guest:Dax and I got, when you're in the Sunday company every, I don't know, six months or something, they either kick most people out and maybe like one or two people can join the Sunday or the main company.
Guest:But it's a certain number of people.
Guest:People in the main company have to leave in order to make space for new people.
Guest:So we got kicked out and we were devastated for about two days.
Guest:And then we were like...
Guest:We're free to go and put all this energy into.
Marc:Did you have representation at that point?
Guest:I did.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:I had a manager.
Guest:I've changed agents a few times.
Guest:I don't know who was my agent back then.
Marc:Why does one change agents generally?
Marc:Do you know?
Guest:I don't.
Guest:In my circumstance, it was that my manager felt like she needed more support.
Guest:So I didn't really know.
Guest:When you have both, you kind of just talk to your manager.
Marc:I had a manager who used to say I had an agent, but I don't think I did.
Guest:Yeah, you never know.
Guest:They're just making it up.
Marc:What it was is that like...
Marc:You know, I was not a movable commodity.
Marc:So he had other clients that were.
Marc:So he'd get agents to do him a favor.
Marc:And then you think he got an agent and you go out on one audition.
Marc:You're like, what happened to my?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, he's not.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:He's not there anymore.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:This town is weird.
Guest:Now I just I don't have a manager.
Guest:I just have an agent and I have a publicist.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All year round publicist?
Guest:No.
Marc:OK.
Guest:No.
Marc:I always wondered about that, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm new to this and I'm just trying to.
Marc:Get a feel for what the big shots do.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:People, it depends on who you're with.
Guest:Sometimes my ex-publicist, it was just, you know, on and off depending on the season.
Guest:Right, on the project.
Marc:Like ready to go out there and plug it.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it's an insane expense.
Guest:It's insane.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But that's the whole business.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Unless you're really savvy and, you know, more savvy than you are talented and you can do your own social media and shit.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a whole other school of thought.
Guest:It is.
Guest:And they're all full-time jobs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you kind of have to pick and choose.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also, I think when I was... I know that when I was starting out for the first 10 years or whatever, I was just like trying to figure out how it's done.
Guest:Like, how are you supposed to do it?
Guest:And then I met my husband and...
Guest:a lot of his personality rubbed off, which is like, I don't care how it's been done.
Guest:This is how I'm going to do it.
Guest:That doesn't make any sense.
Guest:How about I don't need to pay all of you.
Guest:I'll pick one person to pay and you do it.
Guest:And if that doesn't work out, then I'll find someone else.
Marc:Well, he's definitely his own thing.
Guest:He's his own thing for sure.
Marc:But that was fortuitous and good that you met.
Marc:But how long had you been kicking around before you got that audition for Sonny?
Guest:Oh, a long time.
Guest:I did.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that was, I think that pilot was 2004.
Guest:It felt like forever.
Guest:I was doing, I did Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Guest:I did the Drew Carey show.
Marc:Was that the first gate, Curb?
Guest:curb um no my first gig was coyote ugly uh i remember that well the movie i'm sure yeah you remember bidding customer number two that's like the my favorite right that's your favorite character yeah yeah yep bidding customer number bidding customer number two did a little improv supposed to be one or two lines ended up with like five wow very exciting
Marc:Did you put a backstory in place and a name?
Marc:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:I started screaming and yelling, you know?
Guest:It was all about a bar, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was screaming at a bar and bidding on some stripping man.
Marc:So a lot of that college experience kind of paid off?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was screaming in iambic pentameter like we talked about.
Guest:It was beautiful.
Marc:It sounds beautiful.
Guest:It was really beautiful.
Marc:I really have to rewatch that movie.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Did you audition for SNL?
Guest:No.
Guest:In fact, it was when I was in the Groundlings, that was one of my dreams.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, my whole life.
Guest:That was one of my dreams.
Guest:And then when I was in the Groundlings and I loved the Groundlings, it was such a great training ground.
Guest:It was it was a grind.
Guest:And you're also working like three part time jobs and then writing all night long.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's hard.
Marc:Writing sketches.
Guest:Writing sketches.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With Dax?
Guest:With Dax.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Unreliable Dax.
Guest:Well, he was pretty reliable when it came to sketch writing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was great.
Guest:He was always great.
Guest:He just, you know, he was an addict.
Marc:It's troublesome.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you managed to avoid that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was great to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you managed to avoid getting addicted?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Good for you.
Marc:See?
Marc:Good parents.
Guest:Great parents.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I imagine that back when you were all fucked up, the painkillers weren't the same.
Yeah.
Guest:That's maybe that's it.
Guest:Maybe we can blame it on that.
Guest:Oh, my mom was in charge of administering them to me.
Guest:So that's also helpful.
Marc:I don't think there was oxys yet, though.
Guest:No, I don't think so.
Marc:Yeah, just old school.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Worked out.
Guest:It worked out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And when you like, well, what was it?
Marc:How exciting was Curb?
Guest:Curb was very exciting and very terrifying.
Marc:You did a bunch of episodes?
Guest:Yeah, I don't remember how many.
Guest:Cheryl's sister, right?
Guest:Yeah, Cheryl's sister.
Guest:I did a handful of them, but it was so much fun.
Guest:And that was just cool because I'd never done anything.
Guest:I mean, I'd barely done anything at all, but...
Guest:You don't know what you're doing when you walk in to shoot that day.
Guest:You don't know the storyline.
Guest:So it's very freeing and very terrifying.
Guest:And for someone like me who has serious control issues, it was really good for me.
Guest:To let go?
Guest:I hated it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What, what, like, why, what, how'd that rub up against your control issues?
Marc:You wanted a script?
Guest:No, I didn't want a script.
Guest:I just, I, I enjoy, I enjoy improvising when I have a script and I want to say whatever I want to say.
Guest:That's the kind of improvising I like doing.
Guest:Improv games, I, I, I can't, I don't like them.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Cause it's just, it's too much responsibility.
Guest:I'm, I'm, I'm,
Guest:Sadly, a perfectionist.
Guest:I realize that's terrible and try and keep my kids from doing that.
Guest:But so much pressure on myself to be perfect at all times that like just playing around and throwing stuff out and seeing what lands is very uncomfortable for me.
Guest:I want it to be great.
Marc:Oh, OK.
Marc:So you don't trust yourself in those situations?
Guest:No.
Guest:i mean i'm learning so you'd rather see like something on paper and then go like wait what if we do this i want to tinker around and i want to perfect but you don't want to be like just go let's just get somebody just give me an object and watch me oh my god it killed me do that kind of improv i mean yeah at the groundlings you do improv games so it's sketches and improv games and that i would dread that
Marc:Yeah, it's kind of unbearable, and I think it's probably part of the reason the world is ending.
Marc:I'm not sure what the connection is, but I feel like there's a direct connection.
Guest:Which part?
Guest:People having control issues?
Marc:No, no, improv games.
Guest:Yeah, improv games.
Marc:I think that unleashed.
Marc:It's going to be our downfall.
Marc:Podcasting and improv games have caused a tremendous amount of good in the world, but I don't know if it balances out the evil.
Guest:Have you seen how hot the summers get and how cold the winters get?
Guest:The climate is being destroyed by improv games and podcasters.
Guest:Improv games and podcasters.
Guest:It's awful.
Marc:Yeah, it's in Revelations.
Marc:Not in that language, but I'm pretty sure it's in there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But the control issues, where did those come from?
Marc:Where was the chaos that made you need to manage?
Guest:Oh, I mean, probably just feeling very out of control in, you know, school, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I wanted friends.
Guest:I wanted boyfriends.
Guest:I wanted to have hair, you know, the basics.
Marc:So it probably all came from that because you were put into this horrendously vulnerable situation for years on end.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I felt hideous and I, yeah.
Marc:By just an act of fate.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:That's got to be it.
Marc:Have you done some trauma processing on that?
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:Is that like a specific technique or you're just saying, yeah, no, I haven't, but I should.
Marc:No, you might, you might not want to do that because, well, then you'll, you'll feel, you'll, yeah, you'll feel.
Guest:Wait, I'll be free enough to just go improvising all over the place.
Marc:Or you'll be free enough to not even want to do anything anymore.
Marc:All this has been a reaction to this traumatic experience.
Guest:I'm just going to quit it all.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Cause I feel good about myself.
Guest:I feel great.
Guest:I'm just going to go parent all day.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I've done some of the trauma process.
Guest:How is it?
Guest:Is it good?
Marc:Well, there's a lot of approaches.
Marc:It seems to be the new thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That you kind of zero in on the thing and you have a thing and then you're taken through the feelings of.
Guest:So I have.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I've done a I've done a version of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They they have techniques now like EMDR.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've done a little of that.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So I have.
Guest:But I feel like I'm performing for the person.
Yeah.
Guest:Do you not?
Guest:I'm like, I'm supposed to come up with like a phrase to say.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, God, well, you're going to judge this.
Guest:It better be good.
Marc:See, again, improv.
Guest:See, I'm telling you.
Guest:Yeah, it's killing us all.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's killing our mental health.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's not good.
Marc:We figured out the core of the problem.
Marc:So now, how much are you involved now in writing Sunny?
Guest:Not at all.
Guest:Don't want to be.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I love our writer's room so much.
Guest:I'm so lucky.
Guest:I've... Yeah, it's the... It's... Same bunch?
Guest:It's a dream.
Guest:It shifts slightly every year.
Guest:This year, we have the Chernin's back.
Guest:Dave and John, who wrote the Mick, and she ran the Mick for me, who I love so much.
Guest:They're so funny.
Guest:You did a couple seasons of that?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Yeah, two.
Guest:Yeah, fun.
Yeah.
Guest:Uh, I'm so proud of that show and it's my first experience on a network, which wasn't great because everything I just talked about, which is like studio notes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of notes.
Guest:And I just like, I loved, I loved the people who were in charge there.
Guest:There was just a lot of notes that we'd get that didn't make sense or a lot of like, well, that's too racy.
Guest:And I was like, but you told me you wanted me to do something that felt like it belonged on cable.
Guest:Um, it was just, it was just a little bit challenging and I wasn't used to, this is the hardest part.
Guest:I wasn't used to,
Guest:airing episodes while writing other episodes.
Guest:So I didn't have my showrunners with me at all times.
Guest:And on Sunny, they write all of the episodes before we go into production.
Guest:So, I mean, obviously Rob Charlie and Glenn are on set because they're the other actors.
Guest:But they're there and my showrunner's there at all times.
Guest:So it's hard to have your showrunner split between... Was the mix something you helped develop?
Guest:No, they developed it and asked me if I would do it.
Marc:Yeah, so you're not big on the developing thing.
Guest:I was in the process of developing something when this ABC, this High Potential show landed in my lap.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:No, I still would like to do that.
Marc:So that's on the back burner-ish?
Guest:That has moved on because the writer that I was working with, it was her idea and it was wonderful.
Guest:And I told her that she should go and find somebody and do it because I think it's really, really good.
Guest:But there's always, I mean, I'm always looking for something.
Marc:How did Hacks happen?
Guest:They just asked me if I would do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was just so good.
Guest:And the script was great.
Guest:And I was excited to play Jean Smart's daughter.
Guest:And I loved the idea of... This last season is a big season for her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a big one.
Yeah.
Guest:It's really big.
Marc:You have a kid, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And finally stand up to my mom and have a win at that roast, which is really good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's great.
Guest:It's so fun.
Marc:And I'm a comic and you want them to get that right.
Marc:And I think they got as close as you can with actors.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:There's something strange about acting stand up.
Marc:There's always going to be one little component that is impossible.
Guest:It's got to drive you crazy.
Guest:I always wonder because Hannah is a stand up and I wonder how much she and Gene run ideas by each other.
Marc:Well, I mean, I grew up, I came up in comedy with Jean's generation of comics were around, you know, and I knew some of them at that level.
Marc:And so the arc of that character is solid.
Marc:It makes sense.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, and also like, I think the jokes are solid too.
Marc:And I think she's doing a great job with it.
Marc:She is.
Marc:But there is some weird thing, a component to a standup's personality that is very hard to act.
Marc:I don't, I don't even know what it is.
Marc:It's not good.
Guest:That's a vulnerability.
Marc:And I'm not sure what it is.
Marc:There's a deep need for connection.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That that has to be there at the core.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:You know, pathological.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how do you sit through that?
Guest:That's my my absolute nightmare.
Guest:Stand up would be my nightmare.
Marc:Well, you tried it on the show on Sunday, didn't you?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you got all pukey?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's real.
Guest:Can you imagine?
Marc:It's so funny.
Guest:To stand up.
Guest:My birthday is coming up.
Guest:And yesterday, I was on set shooting High Potential.
Guest:And they did the thing where they catch you off guard.
Guest:And every single crew member, cast member, executive is on the show.
Guest:stage and they sing a happy birthday and then people are staring at you and i want to i want to shrivel into a ball and die it's so uncomfortable for someone who my profession is to say something it just everyone's looking at me and i'm not in a character and like it's very weird oh really yeah i don't like it don't look at me how's the cake could you not look at me right now
Marc:I'm looking over here.
Guest:It was a giant white chocolate macadamia cookie cake because I'm a cookie person.
Guest:It's very sweet.
Marc:Was it good?
Guest:It's great.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Yeah, it was awesome.
Marc:It's a whole other discussion about craft services that we don't have to have.
Guest:Well, I would love it.
Guest:I mean, my kids.
Guest:You can't do it?
Marc:Well, I mean, it's just I don't know what it is.
Guest:It's the death of you.
Marc:Well, it's just I've been vegan for a year and a half, so that stops me from eating a lot of shit.
Marc:But like lately, I've gone back to my trailer just to avoid food.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I understand.
Marc:And then like at catering, you're like, this seems healthy, but I just gained five pounds yesterday.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How'd that happen?
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:Listen, food's very important.
Guest:I have a specific caterer because they don't use oils that give everyone diarrhea.
Guest:Not having diarrhea after a meal is really great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:for being on a job.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I think that's important.
Marc:So you have your own person who cooks for you when you're on set?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I found a catering company that I really like, and so we have them, and I have craft services people that we've worked with on Sunny forever.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, and her trailer has like...
Guest:She'll make you whatever smoothie you want.
Guest:You'd love it because there's lots of vegan gluten-free options and smoothies and all the supplements.
Marc:I'm not saying that these caterers are bad.
Marc:They have to feed a million people.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And then there's part of you as an actor where you're like, what is this?
Marc:Why are we eating like this?
Marc:And then you realize there's a whole crew of people that eat like that.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:And they're just living life.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're the crazy person.
Guest:You're the crazy one.
Guest:I'm like, do we have to have 25 boxes of donuts?
Guest:And my Karen's like, if I took the donuts away, this place would revolt.
Marc:We wouldn't have gaffers.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:The gaffers would stay in Santa Clarita.
Marc:It's true.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I was on set the other day, and sometimes I'll smoke a cigar because I'm a nicotine addict.
Marc:I'm not a cigar culture guy, but I just like getting all sweaty and nauseous.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:That's what you're really gunning for.
Marc:And I just walked by the food line to see what they had with a lit cigar in Vancouver.
Marc:And one woman, it was like I just clubbed her dog.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was just sort of like, what are you doing?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm like, what?
Marc:I felt ashamed and embarrassed for two days.
Marc:I thought I was going to have to go to HR.
Guest:Well, she was right.
Guest:I know.
Guest:In that circumstance.
Guest:I know.
Marc:I just didn't think about it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But now I'm that fucking douchebag actor.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Who walked by the food.
Guest:Who brought your cigar around the food.
Marc:I don't know if I'm going to be able to live that down.
Guest:You might not want to go back.
Marc:I'm trying to get out.
Marc:That's good in the middle of production.
Marc:So what's going to happen now?
Marc:So with Hacks, how's the new season looking?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:It's a real cliffhanger.
Marc:You got no idea?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:They're in the writer's room.
Guest:And I actually have a call that is scheduled for within the next couple of weeks to talk about what's coming up for DJ.
Marc:It seems like it's going to be a very exciting season.
Guest:I mean, there's a lot going on.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:What a great ending.
Guest:It's a great ending.
Guest:There's so much going on for Debra.
Guest:It's exciting.
Marc:Debra and Hannah.
Guest:And Hannah.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Ava.
Marc:Ava, yeah.
Guest:I can't wait to see, yeah, where I fit in.
Guest:It's mostly about me.
Marc:I feel like she'll give you a job.
Guest:Oh, do you think she'll take it?
Marc:You would have to because then it's like two against your mom.
Guest:Oh, Ava would give me a job.
Guest:Yeah, that's a great idea.
Marc:That would be crazy.
Guest:Bring a baby to work and not allow her to play with it.
Guest:This is good.
Guest:Let's make a phone call.
Marc:Yeah, get Downs on the phone.
Marc:Make sure.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, it was great talking to you.
Guest:It was great talking to you.
Guest:Thank you for having me.
Marc:I think we did good.
Guest:Don't you?
Guest:We did great.
Guest:You were awesome.
Marc:Oh, thank God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was worried that I was going to be up all night, but I wasn't.
Marc:I got four hours sleep.
Guest:Well, you know what?
Guest:You might be up all night looking at that coffee consumption that's happening right now.
Marc:What time is it?
Guest:It's like six.
Marc:I'll be all right.
Guest:P.M.?
Marc:Oh, is it 6 p.m.?
Guest:Yeah, it's not 6 a.m.
Marc:I am fucked up.
Guest:I'll be all right.
Marc:All right, good.
Marc:All right, thanks.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:That was a very nice chat.
Marc:See, I do this all the time.
Marc:I talk to people.
Marc:You got to talk to people.
Marc:Her ABC show High Potential is streaming on Hulu with the new episodes every Tuesday, Tuesday night on ABC.
Marc:See, you're listening to me talk to people.
Marc:You need to talk to people.
Marc:Listen to me.
Marc:Call an old friend.
Marc:Call your parents.
Marc:Call your brother.
Marc:Call your sister.
Marc:Call your kid.
Marc:Go hang out, will you?
Marc:Interface with the organic.
Marc:Please.
Marc:Please.
Marc:Hang out for a minute.
Marc:Hey, if you're a WTF Plus subscriber, you can listen to ad-free versions of episodes with the rest of the It's Always Sunny crew.
Marc:Those would be episode 209 with Glenn Howerton and Charlie Day, episode 582 with Rob McElhaney, and episode 1059 with Danny DeVito.
Guest:And then in 78, Joel Thurm, who's a casting director, asked me to read this pilot.
Guest:And that was that.
Marc:That was that.
Guest:Yeah, I loved it.
Guest:That was great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Louis was a great part.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, you got to go in and meet them.
Guest:And Joel said, you know, these are guys.
Guest:I didn't know anything about them because I'd never seen Mary Tyler Moore.
Guest:I'd never seen any of these shows.
Guest:No.
Guest:I was doing other things, man.
Guest:I didn't even watch television.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So it was cool.
Guest:I went to Paramount.
Guest:They had this beautiful office.
Guest:They were all in there.
Guest:I'm at the doorway.
Guest:Brooks is in there.
Guest:Weinberger, Stan Daniels, Dave Davis, a couple other people.
Guest:And Weinberger's got his sleeves rolled up and a script in his hand, right?
Guest:And there's a chair right across the way from you.
Guest:And you know that's the hot seat.
Guest:So you're at the door.
Marc:They're sitting at a table?
Guest:They're sitting around like a real soft, cushy place behind a coffee table.
Guest:Very well-appointed office.
Guest:There's the chair.
Guest:Beautiful.
Guest:And there's the chair that you know that so well we do.
Guest:So you go.
Guest:And so Thurm, Joel Thurm says, this is Danny DeVito.
Guest:This is the, how you do?
Guest:I say one thing I want to know before I start.
Guest:Who wrote this shit?
Guest:And I threw it on the table.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:They fucking, there was one step, man.
Guest:It was total terror.
Guest:I thought, man, you fucked yourself out of a job.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:And then they fucking hit.
Guest:And, you know, Brooks and those guys, I just didn't know them at all.
Guest:They laugh like, you know, they have their own, like, fucking patented.
Guest:And they went crazy.
Guest:They were all out of now.
Guest:I walked to the chair.
Guest:I know where I am.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's my room.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You got big enough.
Marc:You did it.
Guest:It's my room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I couldn't say anything that wasn't funny.
Guest:I said, and?
Guest:And they fucking piss.
Guest:I go, so, boom.
Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So it was a gift.
Guest:It was a good one.
Marc:To subscribe to WTF Plus, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF Plus.
Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.
Marc:Here's some more looping.
Marc:It's me literally playing with myself.
Marc:Enjoy.
Marc:.
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.
.
Thank you.
Guest:guitar solo
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Guest:guitar solo
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Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.