Episode 1576 - Elizabeth Olsen
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Marin.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Elizabeth Olsen.
Marc:So I didn't like I don't know that she was really on my radar.
Marc:You know, she's in the Marvel franchise as Scarlet Witch.
Marc:She's the sister of the Olsen twins.
Marc:But I just experienced her as an actress not that long ago.
Marc:I was watching that Candy Montgomery series on HBO Love and Death, and she played Candy Montgomery.
Marc:And I was like, who the fuck is this?
Marc:She's a fucking monster actor.
Marc:Just fucking amazing.
Marc:And that's when I locked in.
Marc:And now she's in the new film, His Three Daughters, directed by Aza Jacobs.
Marc:It's got Carrie Coon in it and Natasha Lyonne.
Marc:And I loved it.
Marc:They were all just fucking amazing.
Marc:And she, you know, came up as an opportunity to talk to and I did it.
Marc:And that's what's going to happen today.
Marc:If you're in Los Angeles, I'll be at Largo next week, Thursday, October 3rd.
Marc:The rest of my tour dates are scheduled for next year.
Marc:You can go to WTFPod.com slash tour to see all of them leading up to the HBO special taping.
Marc:I also wanted to give a little love to a friend of mine, James Adomian.
Marc:He just put out his first ever stand-up special.
Marc:He was a guest on the show years ago, maybe a couple lives, one non-live.
Marc:The new special is called Path of Most Resistance.
Marc:You can stream it now on YouTube or get it from 800-pound gorilla for an ad-free experience.
Marc:James, great impressionist, does a pretty good me.
Marc:That's always flattering when someone can find enough of a caricature of what I do to make me see myself as that.
Marc:It's helpful.
Marc:It's helpful in a way.
Marc:The themes lately have been panic.
Marc:You know, I mean, I've been reading like this is what's going on and all the well.
Marc:It's just the basic sort of, you know, day to day existential panic.
Marc:Sixty one years old this week.
Marc:You know, I can just see the darkness coming.
Marc:So I'm kind of up against that.
Marc:But I got to I got to stay aware of that because I need it for my.
Marc:my movie part, my character.
Marc:I need to be looking in the darkness at the big nothing as much as possible because that's what this character is doing.
Marc:So I'm holding that open more than I should.
Marc:I'm reading Ann Applebaum's book, Autocracy Incorporated, The Dictators Who Want to Run the World.
Marc:It's a small book.
Marc:It's very clear.
Marc:It'll tell you exactly, exactly from a reporter,
Marc:who has kind of put this information together to sort of explore the network of autocrats and how they do business around the world.
Marc:It's important information.
Marc:It's reporting.
Marc:It's not speculative.
Marc:It's not a conspiracy.
Marc:It is what is, and it's not good.
Marc:So I'm reading that, and I'm fucking kind of knee-brain deep into it.
Marc:So I got the existential darkness, the aging, the autocratic network that is consuming the world's economy on some level, the dark economy, how they do business and how our presidential nominee is involved.
Marc:And he is, of course, I mean, it's aspirational, but, you know, he's always been a sort of a puppet of this type of money.
Marc:So I'm reading that, putting my brain into that.
Marc:And then, you know, I'm trying to think of my set.
Marc:And I'll tell you, like, I got to fucking relax, man.
Marc:I just, it all sort of kind of came to a point.
Marc:Yesterday morning, you know, I'm flying Southwest out of Phoenix at 1015, you know, and, you know, I wake up at, you know, eight to fucking head over there with Allie at 830.
Marc:And then it says like the flight's been delayed four hours.
Marc:You know, and I, you know, I had been on the 1255, but I wanted to get home earlier.
Marc:Now I'm not on the 1255 on the 1015.
Marc:And that's leaving it like to whatever.
Marc:And I'm like, God damn it.
Marc:But I just I just practice some some breathing.
Marc:I put myself back on the 1255.
Marc:I booked a separate ticket.
Marc:So now I got two tickets because I'm like, fuck this, man.
Marc:What if it's an all day thing?
Marc:Just book another ticket.
Marc:So I booked another ticket on the one that I was originally on.
Marc:And then I'm just waiting around to, you know, get that flight as opposed to two o'clock or whatever.
Marc:I had Ali switch back to the original flight.
Marc:And then at 9 a.m.,
Marc:You know, I get a text like it's back on time.
Marc:1015.
Marc:So now, like, how am I going to get to the fucking airport and drop off the rental car, get to the gate?
Marc:Why even bother?
Marc:I'm on the next flight.
Marc:And I'm like, no, fuck it, dude.
Marc:This is the window you've prepared for this.
Marc:Your whole life has been in preparation to fucking, you know, act in the moment and get to the fucking airport and run like a fucking idiot if you have to, to get this flight so you can get home two, three hours earlier for no reason.
Marc:But this is what I do.
Marc:This is how my brain works.
Marc:This is my spirituality.
Marc:This is my chore.
Marc:Give me a panic driven task and let's do it.
Marc:I mean, now autocrats are taking over the world and I'm heading into the darkness.
Marc:This is tangible.
Marc:This is something I can do.
Marc:This is a challenge.
Marc:This is like if you don't have sports and you don't have God.
Marc:Let's do it.
Marc:Tom Cruise style.
Marc:Mission Impossible.
Marc:You just like go beat to beat.
Marc:Get on it.
Marc:Pack up that bag.
Marc:Throw the clothes and throw the water bottle in.
Marc:Get the guy to bring the car up.
Marc:Head to the airport.
Marc:Get on the fucking train to the airport.
Marc:Watching the clock tick away.
Marc:And I swear to God, man, I got from my room to security by like 935.
Marc:And I'm in the A group.
Marc:And that's important on Southwest.
Marc:And I just wanted to make my space so I could get a nice seat on the plane for the hour long trip.
Marc:And I'm like, this is fucking unbelievable.
Marc:I made it.
Marc:I made it.
Marc:And then I'm at security.
Marc:I go through the thing beeps.
Marc:Maybe it's my watch.
Marc:I go back through no beep.
Marc:Oh, random selection for the fucking, you know, pat down security check.
Marc:And I'm like, you gotta be fucking kidding me.
Marc:945 planes, 937 planes boarding at 945.
Marc:And I want to be in my group.
Marc:I'm clearly going to make the plane.
Marc:But all I cared about was like, I want to be in my spot on the line.
Marc:I'm A2, goddammit.
Marc:I'm A2.
Marc:And the guy who's going through the bags, then my bag gets like pulled off for another check.
Marc:So now I'm waiting for the random check and I'm waiting for a bag check.
Marc:And the guy checking the bags is going at it like just a snail's pace.
Marc:And I'm just losing my fucking mind.
Marc:I'm like, are you kidding me?
Marc:I made it.
Marc:I Tom Cruise this shit.
Marc:I mission impossible that and I'm fucking here.
Marc:And now this is the holdup.
Marc:I was golden, man.
Marc:I was going to be right there proudly.
Marc:Second guy in line with my A2 ticket.
Marc:And this guy is fucking just not getting to the bags.
Marc:And then he's like, all of a sudden, there's a shift, a change.
Marc:And he's going to go on break.
Marc:And my bag's the next bag.
Marc:Another guy shows up.
Marc:Everyone waiting for the random selection.
Marc:He tests my hands.
Marc:But I'm like, can I have my bag?
Marc:He's like, oh, that's got to be checked.
Marc:And the bag check guy had split.
Marc:Now it's 942, 943.
Marc:Bad guy, a new bad guy comes on.
Marc:I'm like, come on, man.
Marc:He's going through my bag.
Marc:He pulls out my water bottle and he shakes it.
Marc:He's like, there's water in this.
Marc:I'm like, you got to be fucking kidding me.
Marc:So I was just like sweaty pacing, like what the fuck?
Marc:You got to be kidding me, asshole.
Marc:And it was my fault.
Marc:It was my fault.
Marc:That's why my bag got pulled.
Marc:I just, I'm just such, I'm so tired of me.
Marc:And he's like, well, yeah, I can walk you back through.
Marc:We can empty it out.
Marc:I'm like, no, fuck it.
Marc:Throw it away.
Marc:And I was mad.
Marc:Not at him.
Marc:But I didn't have time to make a proper apology for being a dick.
Marc:Now I'm running.
Marc:I'm not even running to catch a plane.
Marc:I'm running to get in line in my position.
Marc:I'm so fucking tired of me.
Marc:I made it, but now it's just sticking with me.
Marc:Like, you know, that guy was like, there's water in here.
Marc:I'm like, you got to be kidding me.
Marc:There's other people around.
Marc:And I'm the guy pacing and going like, oh, fuck.
Marc:I'm the old fuck guy.
Marc:And I left water in my water bottle.
Marc:Like a fucking amateur.
Marc:Like a fucking amateur.
Marc:the autocrats, man, they're taking over and death is coming for all of us.
Marc:The Phoenix show is great.
Marc:Did I mention that?
Marc:I kind of got lost with some other stuff, but, uh, yeah, Phoenix show is great.
Marc:The theater was great.
Marc:I saw my niece.
Marc:I saw my, uh, step nieces and nephew.
Marc:I saw my brother's ex wife, uh,
Marc:I have people in Phoenix, but all in all, a great experience.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you for coming out.
Marc:The COVID eased up.
Marc:I'm through it now.
Marc:The shows, I wasn't hobbled by brain fog or any of the COVID-y situations that can occur.
Marc:And yeah, now I just have to learn how to turn my brain off for, God, give me a fucking hour.
Marc:Will you give me an hour?
Marc:So listen, Elizabeth Olsen is here.
Marc:The film, His Three Daughters, is now streaming on Netflix and is still playing in select theaters.
Marc:And it's like a real acting tour de force by the women in it.
Marc:Natasha Lyonne and Carrie Coon.
Marc:Very good.
Marc:It was very good.
Marc:I like Aza Jacobs' movies.
Marc:And I like him.
Marc:He was on the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He was on the show a while back.
Marc:But anyway, this is me talking to Elizabeth Olsen.
Marc:So, yeah, we were going to do in Vancouver.
Marc:What were you doing up there?
Guest:I was filming a movie called Eternity.
Guest:It's an A24 romantic comedy that happens in the afterlife.
Marc:Oh, afterlife romantic comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I play a big genre.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I play a 92 year old woman from New York who wakes up in her younger body.
Guest:So it was it was everything I wanted.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like it's like my truest version of myself is actually that even though I'm not from New York.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You have an old New York lady living in you.
Guest:I absolutely yeah so that's what we were filming and it was it was a great ensemble group um but I I like uh I like getting to be away and work I don't really love working where I live yeah well but okay wait let's talk about the old lady in you yeah
Marc:What kind of old lady is that?
Marc:Because I had a major realization about an old man me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm close.
Marc:Like, it's happening.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But it was specifically in New York.
Marc:Like, what is your New York old lady?
Guest:Well, when I was in high school, I used to say a lot that I couldn't wait to be old.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How's that holding?
Marc:Are you still on board with that?
Guest:I think I just want to make it there.
Guest:I think I'm scared of mortality and haven't yet come to terms with everybody dies.
Guest:It's the fucking worst.
Guest:Yeah, I can't really process it.
Marc:Well, I can for several reasons.
Marc:But yeah, I think about that every day.
Guest:Yeah, we're all forced to process it, right?
Guest:We're all forced to...
Guest:Figure out either privately or if you are lucky to be part of a community that wants to be a part of that process with you while we lose people in our lives.
Guest:Often it just feels incredibly isolating.
Marc:Well, the weirdest thing about it all is that it is it is so there's everyone does it.
Guest:We all do it and we all have to watch it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And and but like, have you ever look, I like I've been a hypochondriac before in my life.
Marc:But like, you know, OK, so when you're afraid of dying and you're an actress.
Marc:So have you ever really like laid there like probably, you know, in bed, not sleeping and just really gotten there to like like dying in your mind?
Marc:Like, you know, like the idea.
Marc:It's horrendous.
Guest:Yeah, no, I have.
Guest:I mean, I do.
Guest:I guess I think about I think more about people in my life dying than I do myself.
Marc:So many.
Marc:They all go.
Guest:They all go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think if you get to be a certain age, like 80.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's awesome.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I think it's really hard to get there.
Marc:The number's awesome, but the quality of life, not always necessarily awesome.
Guest:No, but sometimes you see a 92-year-old woman who is, you know, canoeing in Hawaii.
Marc:Yeah, you want to be that one.
Guest:And you're like, good for her.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:This is an option.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it could happen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a really sad one.
Guest:slim possibility yes yeah but if i stay in shape yeah and my genetics hold up yeah yeah that's everything yeah you've worked it out yeah well genetics is everything i had a i had an ent doctor tell me you're either built like a mercedes or you're not basically telling me to stop freak stop freaking out about everything that was happening well he didn't tell you what kind of car you were though
Guest:No, he didn't.
Marc:So he gave you this bit of wisdom, but he's like, I don't know what brand you are.
Guest:Well, it's made me... Oh, God, I get so obsessed with health stuff.
Guest:I have genetic high cholesterol.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:And so I'm on this... Do you do a bean protocol?
Guest:A legume?
Marc:I went vegan, dude.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I basically have cut out meat and cheese...
Marc:Yeah, I went total.
Guest:And I can't cut anything out because I'm too obsessed with food to actually fully.
Guest:Me too.
Marc:I'm a full eating disorder person.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Marc:It's like it's a nightmare.
Marc:It's my deepest issue.
Marc:And I've had many, you know, addictions or whatever.
Marc:But like the one you can't shake is that body image shit.
Marc:It's like the worst.
Guest:And for me, I just I know that genetically the thing that will kill me is my heart.
Guest:statistically for women yeah and then also genetically for my disposition of my high cholesterol wait what are you on statin you mean i was it was suggested to me and so instead i just cut out went full bean went full bean you on are you doing the red rice yeast
Guest:I was.
Guest:And then it's not if I was going, you're not supposed to for fertility reasons.
Guest:I'm in that time in my life where I don't want to screw things up.
Guest:And so you're not supposed to take any statin or because it works red rice yeast or red.
Marc:It's like a statin if it works.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And if you have the right quality.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I'm totally.
Guest:So instead, I'm just having a lot of beans and I brought my number down 30 points.
Marc:So I always had just, what's your LDL?
Marc:Like, what was the panic point?
Guest:The panic point was above 200 for the combined cholesterol.
Marc:Well, that's not terrible.
Guest:Well, 200 was kind of like, I was around 230.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I've now brought it down to like 198.
Marc:And the LDL, like my LDL at its highest was like 129.
Marc:And it should be below 100.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I can't remember my LDL.
Guest:I was just thinking about my combined one.
Marc:And I knew that it was genetic.
Marc:So when I got a colonoscopy, I was like, I'm completely clean.
Marc:So let's see.
Marc:Let me just go full vegan and see if it has any impact on the number.
Marc:But I also thought, why aren't we getting colonoscopies once a month?
Marc:Because it feels great to be that empty.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:I've never had one.
Marc:That's my eating disorder.
Marc:This is amazing.
Marc:You can just drink this stuff and it's all gone.
Guest:Completely clean from the soul.
Marc:Totally.
Guest:This is the best.
Guest:I feel like you get like a high from that, like a spiritual high.
Marc:A starvation high and a cleanse high is the best.
Marc:Like when when I when I've gotten totally obsessed with with weight and I've gotten down to like 170.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was like I was people were like, are you are you OK?
Marc:Are you sick?
Marc:And I'm like, no, I feel great.
Marc:But you look like this haggard fucking.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like the last season of Glow, if you watch that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I look like I have cancer because I. But I feel like wasn't that like that felt like could have been the culture for that entire show.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But not for the guy.
Marc:I mean, like, I just like, here's what I was thinking.
Marc:I'm like, I'm going to be on set with that fucking food all over the place.
Marc:And I just got to get down like five pounds.
Marc:So when I'm at craft services, I don't freak out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I got.
Guest:Yeah, you have a sickness.
Marc:I know.
Yeah.
Marc:So I lost all this weight, and then I just kept doing it.
Marc:On set, I'm like, I'm still not going to eat anything.
Marc:And I look at that season, and I'm like, my fingers are skinny, and I'm like, oh, my God.
Marc:Anyway, I was on a statin light, like 10 milligrams a day.
Marc:And it wasn't affecting me negatively, but I didn't want to be on it.
Marc:So I go vegan for two weeks, and then I get blood work, and it went from like 129 to 80.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's not so disturbing.
Marc:And then I got off the statin and I went back for blood work a month later and it was it was like at 100.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So the diet makes it.
Marc:It does.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But are you also doing soluble fiber or are you just vegan?
Marc:What is it?
Guest:Cell fiber.
Guest:I mean, like, are you obsessively focusing on legumes or oats or things like that?
Marc:I do.
Marc:Like, do you remember that restaurant in New York, Angelica Kitchen?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So, like, that was like a high-end macro place.
Marc:So my concept of what you should eat is based on herb bowls.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you got like a grain, a bean, a protein.
Marc:Squash.
Marc:Some seaweed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:If you want.
Marc:And usually a pickled thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So that's sort of the way I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you go to Suen a lot when you were in New York?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Suen, there was two.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Now there's only one.
Guest:I think there was three at one point.
Marc:There was one on spring.
Marc:And then there was one on 13th.
Guest:One on 13th.
Guest:And there's one in the East Village.
Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I used to go there.
Marc:I think it's on like East 7th Street.
Marc:To get the thin slab of dry salmon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I still get, that's all we ate when we made his three daughters, by the way.
Guest:Really?
Guest:We ordered suen almost every day.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's Oz's favorite.
Marc:The over steamed kale.
Marc:Yeah, it's perfect.
Marc:And the mushy beans.
Marc:Yeah, and the mushy carrot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the one thing that I like that I was introduced there is that tofu skin.
Marc:What's it called?
Guest:Never had it.
Marc:It's like just this, it's got a different texture.
Marc:Yeah, and that carrot dressing, which I figured out how to make.
Guest:I've never made a carrot ginger dressing.
Marc:It's like so New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I have a recipe for it.
Marc:It's so easy.
Guest:Yeah, I've never done it.
Marc:I'll give it to you.
Guest:Is it messy?
Marc:No.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:I mean, there's some more complicated ones.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But the basic one.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's just like carrot, ginger, tahini, water.
Marc:I love that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's, it's fucking easy if you got a processor.
Guest:I'm just like such a mustard vinaigrette dressing person.
Marc:What, no oil mustard vinaigrette?
Guest:Oh, no, I do oil.
Guest:I'm not like an, I'm not an obsessed, I, I care a lot about my cholesterol going down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I am, I, moderation is everything to me.
Huh.
Guest:I'm not an all-or-nothing person.
Guest:I'm not an extremist.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you go the other way, kind of keep it tight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just try and have balance.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Also, there is a New York Times article where a stomach doctor saying that he can tell when patients eat a lot of walnuts by looking at their colon.
That's the other thing.
Marc:You know what I'm doing?
Guest:Walnut paste?
Marc:No, kind of.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, because I knew doing the vegan thing that the only way you can do it successfully is you got to make sure you get the stuff that you can't, that you don't get from, like that you used to get from meat.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like you can't get B12.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So I got to spray that.
Marc:I got to spray B12.
Marc:But the.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:This is how we're going to start, but I'm really into it.
Okay.
Marc:So, so I do this spray.
Marc:But I, I've been grinding up hazelnuts and walnuts into this meal that I put in the, in the oatmeal every day.
Marc:Oh, quarter cup of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But then I'm like, like there's walnut oil.
Marc:How come no one ever fucking talks about walnut oil?
Marc:How could that not be the best thing in the world for you?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Seed oils, man.
Guest:Is that considered a seed oil?
Marc:No, it's a nut oil.
Guest:So those are fine.
Marc:What's seed?
Marc:What's the problem with seed?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But people talk about them like they're really bad for you.
Guest:Oh, you mean like sunflower seed?
Guest:See, this is where I stop.
Guest:Like the moment something scares me just with a blanket statement is I just turn around.
Guest:I just can't go deeper down that.
Marc:With just a slim thread of information, you're out.
Guest:I think I. Safflower seed oil.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I become fearful then of what's in a restaurant, whatever.
Guest:And I want to enjoy myself.
Marc:What about fucking catering on sets?
Marc:I cook my own food.
Marc:I mean, like, I don't even know what it is.
Marc:Like, I eat as healthy as possible on set.
Marc:And it's like, why the fuck did I just gain nine pounds yesterday?
Marc:It's oil.
Marc:Bad oil.
Guest:It's just a lot of bad oil.
Marc:Drives me nuts.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, okay, so the walnut seed oil, the walnut nut, the walnut oil, I got like some guy, some fan was like, I have a walnut company.
Marc:I'm like, okay.
Marc:And he sent me this sort of virgin cold press walnut seed oil.
Marc:And if I don't get the nuts, I'll just do a tablespoon of that.
Guest:And it's amazing.
Guest:Who the fuck knows?
Guest:But it makes sense.
Guest:Yeah, it does make sense.
Marc:I mean, it's not like I do a tablespoon of it and I'm like, wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There is nothing.
Marc:No matter what I take or what I eat, there's no point where I wake up going like, I feel great.
Guest:No.
Guest:You either feel bad or you don't think about it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Or you go like, I guess this is the way it is now.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:This is what it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like people ask me, do you feel better on the vegan thing?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm also a horrendous nicotine addict right now, which is not great.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And does that mean you put like a... I'm doing those, yeah.
Guest:What are they called?
Marc:Zin.
Guest:Are they the pouches?
Guest:Pouches, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:I'm doing a bit of that, but it's a lifelong journey.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Cigarettes, this and that.
Guest:I've heard.
Marc:From me?
Guest:Yeah, I've listened.
Yeah.
Marc:I know.
Guest:It comes up.
Marc:I've become this tiring guy.
Marc:It's like, here we go.
Marc:I thought he was off this for three years.
Marc:I guess he's back.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, I. It's a great document of my lack of progress over a 15 year period of time.
Guest:That's how I feel about my journaling.
Guest:I think my journaling is a documentation of that.
Marc:Have you journaled your whole life?
Guest:No, I've journaled when we were in, when we, when I was in theater school at NYU, we had a voice teacher that asked us to start journaling.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just whether or not we were doing the exercises that day to keep ourselves responsible or motivated.
Guest:And then also how we noticed our breathing changing, our voice changing.
Guest:And so I would do it occasionally.
Guest:I was like an obsessive student.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I did it then.
Guest:And then I kind of have always journaled on every plane flight.
Guest:And so I'm usually going to or from something or if I'm working abroad and I was alone at restaurants by myself.
Guest:And now I journal every morning for the last year and a half.
Marc:And you read them?
Guest:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I would just imagine if I did, it would be just a lack of progress.
Marc:Yeah, I'm here again.
Marc:I'm saying the same thing every other week.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you know Sheila Hetty?
Guest:She's a writer and she just released, I can't remember what it's called, but she just released a book that is of her journal entries in alphabetical order over the last, I don't know, 20 years or something.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:What do you mean alphabetical order?
Guest:What the first letter is.
Guest:Oh, that's interesting.
Guest:That she starts with.
Guest:And I would imagine that there would be a very large.
Guest:I. I or today or.
Marc:Or one person's name.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For a period.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:And so I haven't read it, but I like her writing.
Guest:And she's always doing something conceptual that's kind of odd.
Guest:And so I'd like to read that.
Marc:Get back into that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's something I think you can read every couple of pages.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because it's just reading someone else's journal, which is a bit strange.
Marc:It's interesting.
Marc:Like, I do a weekly sort of newsletter thing, which is kind of a journal.
Marc:But the only time I journaled obsessively was when my wife left me.
Marc:So I was a heartbroken fuck.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was, I can't look at them.
Marc:I mean, I found them, you know, how I was handling all that and what was going through my head.
Marc:But the thing about journaling is if you kind of get into it, the relationship is with yourself.
Marc:So you can get, right when you start reading it, you're back in that experientially and it's like horrendous.
Guest:It's like parallel lives that are coexisting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's like acting.
Guest:It never leaves you.
Marc:Like I have this whole life up in Vancouver that feels like a dream.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't even know what's going on up there.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I love living in those dreams, though.
Marc:I like going on the road as a comic for a few days.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that sort of feeling like none of you have to clean.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But this thing, like being in a condo and just kind of setting that up so I can do the routines that I'm used to so I don't lose my mind, has been challenging, but I've leveled off.
Marc:But okay, so your cholesterol is good.
Guest:yeah it's better yeah and your journals you think indicate that you're not making any progress but i think you are potentially but i also there it's it's really helpful for processing um like i'm curious how helpful it was
Guest:For you, when you had that focused amount of time doing that, even if it's hard to reread, I do think it helps process you through something.
Guest:And I do think if creatively other things are going on, there are threads to pick out and to explore and then to take with you.
Guest:So I find it creatively helpful.
Guest:And if I just have the practice every day, then occasionally it gets to work.
Guest:Maybe once every two weeks, there's a realization that's like, oh, that's something I can take with me for a character.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Also because a lot of times if you process something thoroughly, you're kind of putting it to rest.
Marc:So if you need to get back into the unprocessed raw goods...
Marc:A journal might be helpful.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I also think there's... I also have a journal that's just for character.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah, just so that... For each movie or project?
Guest:Not for each.
Guest:It's just kind of like an amalgam.
Guest:It's a very messy journal.
Marc:What do you mean for character?
Marc:So traits...
Guest:So I'll have like three or four projects going on at different stages.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so one page will just be like a movie list of references for that filmmaker.
Guest:Or it would be an idea I came up with of like a physical trait that I want that person to have.
Guest:And it jumps to all these different projects with just its own.
Marc:Oh, because like I'm like I'm trying to do that a little now.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:What?
Guest:Build a character?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, I love it.
Guest:It's my favorite part.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know how good I am at it, but doing this project I'm doing now, I made certain choices, but they really wanted a guy that was kind of me with my emotional...
Marc:range and my particular crankiness.
Marc:So when I get cast for those kind of things, within about three weeks of the thing going on, I'm like, am I even doing it?
Marc:Am I doing the acting?
Guest:Is it boring to you?
Marc:Not this time, because there was a lot weighing on this one, because I really wanted to know if the weight justifies the
Marc:creative part of it the waiting literally the waiting that like okay so i mean that you know you could spend nine hours in a trailer because they can't get away yeah got it so like if i'm gonna spend nine hours sitting there wondering you know what the fuck to do with myself as my energy and everything else dissipates yeah to do like you know three takes of a of a half a page scene yeah it's like what kind of fucking life is that yeah it's brutal
Guest:That's really brutal.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So, like, how do I make that rewarding?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I get that.
Guest:I feel like it's been a while since I've been on a job where I've had to wait like that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that is a painful place to be in.
Guest:And it's hard to figure out.
Guest:I think I just get so excited by the moment I get to get called on to set.
Marc:That's what I'm trying to do.
Guest:That's, like, the energizer.
Marc:Where you can lock in, you know?
Marc:So, like, yeah, I've become a lot more aware and a little more confident in acting to where, like, I can start to... There's certain things I remember from talking to actors because I never had training.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And the one...
Marc:The one thing that I can't get out of my head is Jeff Daniels, like, leaning in and going, you have to learn how to use your face.
Marc:And he goes, film acting is 80% face.
Marc:And I'm like, oh, okay.
Guest:Did he mean, like, actually facial expressions that you make?
Marc:Kind of, because, like, I never thought about it that way.
Marc:Because, like, film, it's like it's all face.
Guest:It is, but I think...
Guest:God, that's so funny coming from an actor who I love watching.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And because I think the trap of film acting is you relying on your face.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think when you are able to be fully in your body on film is when you actually have those moments of... Real moments, sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But there's certain things I do with my face that like, you know, like I breathe through my mouth.
Marc:So I've become...
Marc:I've become sort of aware.
Marc:I don't want to be just standing there with my mouth open.
Marc:So I got to kind of think about that.
Marc:And then I think with the body thing, I think once you transcend, like, what do I do with my hands?
Marc:Because I talk with my hands.
Guest:I do, too.
Guest:And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
Marc:Yeah, and at some point I'm like, oh, no, I'm doing, this guy's not Jewish and I'm Jewish doing my Jewish hands.
Guest:That's how I feel about being Italian.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:And so, well, yeah, but it's getting better and I'm at least using the time.
Marc:Like when I do work, when I have real scenes, it's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like I'm into it.
Guest:Yeah, good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, God, it's so fun.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Guest:Yeah, it's really fun.
Marc:Yeah, it's fun.
Marc:You know, the waiting.
Marc:And now that I figured out how to hook up the smart TV in the trailer.
Guest:Oh, I never turn those on.
Marc:I never thought they barely ever worked.
Marc:But now they're like their Samsung's in there.
Marc:And I'm like, fuck, I can get Criterion on there.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:So, like, I'm like, I'm good.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:There's something about turning.
Guest:I have a hard time watching things that aren't references to what I am making.
Marc:Yeah, see, that's because you're more pro.
Guest:I just get, I just, yeah.
Marc:You don't want to be taken out of it.
Guest:I don't.
Marc:So do you not even pick up your phone on set?
Guest:I don't bring my phone to set.
Guest:I'll leave it in my trailer.
Guest:Okay, maybe I'll start doing that.
Marc:That's a good actor tip.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just really I think it's just because I love the doing and I become really connected and involved with the crew.
Guest:And I also become really nosy and want to understand the order of scenes a week from that day.
Guest:And I want to talk to the AD about it.
Guest:And I have a lot of opinions about what's better for performance in the order of a day or the order of like an entire, you know,
Guest:duration of a shoot.
Guest:I'm really nosy and I have a lot to say all the time.
Marc:But not in a diva way, but in a curiosity way.
Guest:No, in like a team way.
Guest:I love this.
Guest:I love doing the job because I love the group element of it.
Guest:And I think...
Guest:I did a show that no one saw because it was on Facebook, Facebook Watch, when they had a, I think, I don't even know if they still exist, but they had a streaming service once upon a time.
Guest:This was 2018 and 19.
Guest:And it's called Sorry for Your Loss.
Guest:And it was a show that we had.
Guest:It's how I met Ozzy Jacobs, who did his three daughters.
Guest:Yeah, I love that guy.
Guest:I've talked to that guy.
Guest:I didn't realize you've talked to him.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Marc:And he sent me the box set of his dad's stuff.
Guest:You ever seen that stuff?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:His dad's stuff was being shown all over New York City.
Guest:NYU, I think it was while we were shooting this movie.
Guest:Maybe it was after.
Guest:I don't understand time because we filmed this a while ago.
Guest:But NYU, in every single building they had, they put up TVs of all of his father's work as his retrospective.
Marc:Yeah, I really liked that guy.
Marc:And I liked the movie.
Marc:I thought it was great.
Guest:Oh, you saw His Two Daughters.
Guest:Okay, great.
Marc:I saw that.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And I thought it was... But like, wait, before we go... Oh, being involved on the set.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Depending on how... I mean, I usually...
Guest:I usually know what happened right before just because I'm like constantly reminding myself.
Marc:So you have the whole script with you all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think that's what I got to do.
Guest:And I never have sides on me.
Guest:I always have sides on me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just I don't know.
Guest:There's something about like by that point I want to be free of all of it.
Guest:But I'll have my script with me.
Guest:On the chair.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, not on set necessarily, maybe sometimes, but yeah, just to, just to remember.
Guest:And if it's specifically like a very, is it like a immediate direct cut?
Guest:Like, you know, one month you shoot the interior and then the exterior a month later.
Guest:I'll just watch playback, which is painful, but I just want to connect levels of like energy, pace.
Marc:No sides with you.
Guest:No.
Marc:I get this a lot.
Marc:We can see your sides in your pocket.
Guest:No, I mean, I think it was... I don't know.
Guest:There's this show that I did for Facebook, Sorry if You're Lost.
Guest:I produced it and it became like the ethos of the thing of...
Guest:If you set, if you set a, like, without even, without, like, doing it, without articulating it, just through action.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you're, you know, one of the leaders on a set, you set a tone.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so, however prepared you are going to be, other people will then realize they should be.
Guest:Potentially.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:I don't hold other people to those standards, but that is what I will do.
Guest:And...
Guest:Since then, with WandaVision, with Paul Bettany and I and Katherine Hahn, that's how we all worked.
Guest:And then everyone who came in to that world with us, they all did the same.
Guest:And it's setting a tone and a standard that I think creates a really focused energy on set that is all about the doing.
Marc:So there's an innate sort of responsibility to being in the top three of the call sheet to be a leader of sorts.
Guest:I think so.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And if I'm not, you know, one and I'm like two or three and someone else is one and they have a totally different way of working, that's fine.
Guest:But I'll still represent how I work the way I work.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, the WandaVision thing, that must have been kind of interesting because you could do time travel.
Guest:It was so fun.
Yeah.
Marc:But like, you know, to do all those different formats of television.
Guest:Yeah, it was really fun to like that.
Marc:I feel like that must have effectively done some trauma processing for you.
Guest:I don't know if it did trauma processing, but it definitely was.
Marc:I mean, you grew up with sisters on one of those shows.
Guest:That was absolutely a reference when we were getting into the 80s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think by the time we got there, we had already created this world outside of it.
Guest:But, you know, I also was raised loving old shows from the 50s because my mom did and there was TV Land.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:Or Nick at Night or whatever it was.
Marc:And you watched them with her?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:By myself or with her.
Marc:Oh, she just introduced you to them?
Guest:Yeah, my mom.
Guest:I mean, the way I was introduced to things was definitely through my mom or my older brother.
Guest:How old is your older brother?
Guest:He's five years older.
Marc:Oh, so music probably, right?
Marc:And movies?
Guest:Yeah, music and movies and comedy.
Marc:Comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how old are the sisters older than you?
Guest:They're three years.
Marc:That's not too much.
Guest:No.
Guest:But yeah, it feels in some ways larger because they had responsibilities since they were so young.
Marc:Like since they were three.
Guest:Six months they started working, you know.
Marc:You are born into this.
Marc:Wheel of show business.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't feel that way, though, as a kid.
Guest:I think growing up in L.A., I'm fourth generation Los Angeles.
Guest:There's a real Valley.
Guest:Yeah, Valley.
Guest:I mean, my my mom grew up in the Valley.
Guest:My dad grew up in Eagle Rock.
Guest:Eagle Rock.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I used to live up there in Highland Park.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then my my mom's parents, one grew up in Santa Monica.
Guest:The other one was the Valley.
Guest:And then before that, it was like West Adams area.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So I Angelino.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, none of them were in the entertainment industry.
Guest:They were all artisans of different kind.
Guest:I mean, certain parts of my mom's family, her maternal, her mother's side, carpenters, shoe cobblers, pianists, they were all people who had real strong focuses and disciplines.
Guest:And then my mom was a ballet dancer as her discipline, and my dad was a golfer as his discipline.
Guest:And so I was raised with people who had very— Pro golfer?
Guest:No, pro-am tournaments.
Guest:He's won all over the country and I guess internationally as well.
Guest:You play?
Guest:I do not play.
Marc:I'm doing a golf show.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Marc:Never picked up a club in my life.
Guest:My dad said, yeah, my dad, do you have to golf?
Marc:No.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I have to act like I know about golf.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So I got up to speed.
Marc:But this golf company just sent me a whole set of clubs.
Guest:And you don't play?
Marc:I just got them.
Marc:I don't play.
Guest:Do you have an interest in starting?
Marc:It seems like as an addiction, probably one of the worst, least satisfying addictions that I could imagine.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:My dad...
Guest:My dad's obsession with it, it's how he also had any kind of job in his life is because he would be able to get jobs with people who had money who were like, we need Davey on our team at the Pro-Am tournament.
Guest:And so then my dad started working in mortgage through knowing these guys or whatever.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:I know a comic that's sort of that way with tennis and golf.
Guest:And it's their trade.
Marc:It's been his entry into –
Marc:that upper echelon of status.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You have to trade something.
Guest:And that was his trade was being good at it.
Marc:Yeah, he's a golf hustler.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:America's guest.
Guest:But yeah, so I think mostly I was around people who had really strong disciplines.
Guest:And then also growing up in L.A.,
Guest:Sure, my sisters worked, but they worked.
Guest:My best friend's dad was a special effects makeup artist.
Guest:There were people whose parents were gaffers, people whose parents were set designers.
Marc:So it's just an industry.
Marc:It wasn't some magical land.
Guest:No, it's like if you were raised in any other major city where there's one or two main industries, it's what you know.
Guest:And so you don't know anything different.
Guest:So I don't feel like I was raised in some strange...
Marc:uh holly i hate the word hollywood but that's what that's what they you know the word to use but it was it was totally demystified by being you know you know here for generations and just acknowledging that it's just this is an industry town and yeah people have these jobs yeah and that's the trade but right but at some point it you know once you became more cognizant of of being alive yeah i was yeah i was embarrassed at that point that that was a dream of mine
Marc:Well, no, but the weight of your sister's success and what that wielded, like what that created must have been somewhat terrifying.
Guest:It made me super disciplined.
Guest:It made me know that if I ever wanted to do this professionally, that I need to know that I did everything I could from a craft standpoint.
Marc:Oh, you weren't afraid of fame?
Marc:No.
Guest:Um, I thought I would be in theater.
Guest:So that was my way of avoiding it.
Guest:My focus was doing theater for the rest of my life.
Guest:Going to Chicago, Steppenwolf, like that was my goal.
Marc:That's a good one.
Marc:That's a good one.
Guest:That was the dream.
Marc:So by, but by avoiding it, you acknowledged the trappings of it and that, you know, it was not something that you necessarily wanted to deal with.
Guest:I did not want to deal with it.
Guest:And I think to this day without like social media and avoiding certain parts of town is my way of dealing with it as best I can.
Marc:But also like, well, I imagine with the Marvel stuff, that's where a lot of that, that's what you're avoiding.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:that, you know, the celebrity of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, like, if that was not part of your resume, you would just be this respected, you know, people would be like, oh, there she is.
Marc:I would just be like, oh, my God!
Guest:It's her, yeah.
Guest:I would love to be, I think I was in the back of a cab
Guest:in new york and they play that uh sandy i can't remember his name who does that he talks to actors right on this porch on the stoop yeah yeah the stoop the stoop chat or whatever the tv that you can't turn off that you always want to turn off but michael shannon he was someone i think he asked him steppenwolf guy right yeah uh no chicago
Guest:Chicago, but not Steppenwolf.
Guest:He had a different theater company he was part of.
Marc:He's great.
Guest:So great.
Guest:And they asked him, what's the most annoying question you asked is people saying, have we met before?
Guest:Or I feel like, you know, just that.
Marc:Wait, didn't we?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I think I would like to, I like the Michael Shea on it.
Marc:Has that problem?
Marc:Yeah, I kind of like that problem.
Marc:The worst problem?
Guest:And just being like, I don't think so.
Guest:I have a familiar face or whatever.
Guest:I get that a lot or whatever.
Marc:Well, that's the best way to handle it.
Marc:The most embarrassing way to handle it is when you go like, well, I'm an actor.
Marc:And they're like, oh, okay.
Guest:I don't really watch much.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:And then you start listing your credits.
Marc:Like, no, I didn't see that.
Guest:Yeah, no.
Marc:And they didn't see anything you brought up.
Marc:And you're like, what the fuck did I just do?
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:They just watched a commercial or a trailer and saw your face once.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So when do you start doing it seriously?
Guest:Acting?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't start until I was in college.
Guest:I was 21, I guess.
Guest:No, I mean, I was understudying in New York.
Guest:I was understudying when I was 19, my second year of college.
Marc:So you went to college for acting?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I went to the Atlantic Theater Company.
Marc:Mammoth's place.
Guest:Mammoth and William H. Macy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, Felicity Huffman's.
Marc:This is like, for me, when I understood what it was, it was very kind of like this utilitarian approach.
Marc:And it's sort of like, anyone can do this.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Just, you know, read the lines.
Guest:And they take away the value of your own, what makes you unique.
Yeah.
Guest:Because you are a tool and you are in service to the writer.
Marc:Yeah, we want to flatten you out.
Marc:We don't need any big personalities.
Guest:Yes, and I actually adored it.
Guest:I mean, I've done a lot of training programs.
Guest:I've done Strasburg.
Guest:I've done Meisner.
Guest:I did Strasburg in New York.
Guest:I did Meisner in L.A.
Guest:And then when I was at Atlantic, by that time, I'd done those other programs.
Marc:Just as classes?
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, you did them in- Programs.
Guest:I did like summer programs.
Guest:No, before Tisch.
Guest:When I was in high school, I would do these summer programs.
Marc:Here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One was, Meisner was here.
Guest:It wasn't for me.
Marc:So you did a lot of like, you know, the repetitions and the- Yeah, which I found interesting.
Guest:It just, it's, you know, taking the attention off yourself and putting it on someone else in a simple way.
Guest:But the Strasburg I did through an NYU summer program as a high school student.
Marc:And how was that different?
Guest:It's, uh, it's about, uh, and the same thing I found with L.A.
Guest:Meisner.
Guest:It's all about this kind of, uh, accessing traumas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That I don't find helpful in telling a story.
Guest:I think there's, I think the thing with Atlantic that I loved was it was really activated and it's, it's in the intention of serving a story and it's not about, um, digging up pain.
Guest:It's, or, uh,
Marc:Because it's all in the words.
Guest:It's in the words.
Guest:And then you have to figure out your gut connection that inspires you to those words.
Guest:In that moment.
Guest:In your prep work.
Guest:But that's just supposed to engage your soul, basically.
Marc:So you just put that in place and you don't have to sit there and think about a dog that died.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's that's really, I think, unhealthy if this is, you know, what you do all day long for 14 hours a day.
Guest:And so I really enjoyed that.
Guest:But then I went to Moscow Art Theater School semester abroad when I was for a whole semester.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:When I was 19, I only know one other guy that went to Moscow.
Guest:It was at... Bernthal.
Guest:Bernthal.
Guest:Yeah, he and I talked about it.
Guest:Because we didn't work with each other on Wind River, but we saw each other at the premiere, and he looked at me, and he was like, Mahat!
Guest:And I was confused.
Guest:And I was like, Mahat!
Guest:He was like, Mahat!
Guest:And so, like, he went there, and I didn't know that, but I...
Guest:Stanislavski, Chekhov, all that stuff in high school was like everything to me.
Guest:It was my way, you know, when you're talking about this potential fear or pressure from my sisters and being categorically, I don't know, nepotism or whatever with my connection to them.
Guest:My...
Guest:realization in high school through Chekhov and learning about Stanislavski was my academic way of, uh, making, making it, uh, of, of value.
Guest:Right.
Guest:To, to a historical sense.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To an entire country's history.
Guest:Right.
Guest:There is a value to it that was bigger than this place, than this, you know, city.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um,
Guest:Or this machine.
Guest:And so when I was in New York and a friend of mine, he figured out that we could go abroad there, not through NYU.
Guest:We both had to convince NYU why we were allowed to go abroad and not give them our money first semester, which was really complicated.
Guest:But going to Moscow and going to school there...
Guest:It engaged your imagination in a childlike way, which was something that I needed.
Guest:Because I started work – I did this – when I started working, I always thought, well, you're the costume designer.
Guest:You're the director.
Guest:You're the whatever.
Guest:Like, you don't –
Guest:I'll defer to you because that's kind of what Atlantic teaches you in a sense because you are a pawn.
Guest:There is a world before you in a movie or a play and there's a world after you in a film.
Marc:Yeah, so that's good.
Marc:So the entire program serves to diminish the ego of the most egoistic people in order to serve the greater good.
Guest:Of another big ego.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But diminishing an ego is important.
Guest:Sure, but... But you need a sense of it to have a point of view.
Marc:But the weird thing is, though, as much as I like Mamet and some of the stuff he's written, that this is a guy that writes a specific way, and it has a specific rhythm, and there's a way the thing works.
Marc:And it is a showcase of language and pace and rhythm and story, right?
Marc:But if you watch the early movies that he directed and cast, they're flat.
Guest:Well, yeah, that's what he wants, right?
Marc:I know, but it's like, okay, I'm not sure I want to watch it.
Guest:Yeah, but then you see someone like William H. Macy and he's been able to shift it.
Guest:But there is an element where it's very clear to me that he came up in that.
Marc:Yes, I can see that too.
Marc:But see, the one thing about the system is that whatever...
Marc:idea that Mamet had about how he wanted his theater to work you know Macy you know you're not so much of what what actors do if they pop in a certain way whether it's on on stage or on screen it's it's genetic yeah it's inherent and and you know personality wise in any other way yes so Macy was going to break through yes one way or the other yes
Guest:And he just happens to also align stylistically in ways with Mamet at that time or whatever.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I'm sure that his way of delivery, you know, the things he learned about how he's going to deliver and how he's going to hold space, you know, is probably a lot about that.
Marc:But one of the things, but it's not like any other acting program, is it deludes people.
Marc:Especially Atlantic.
Marc:If you're saying that, you know, look, any idiot can act, just say the line, stupid.
Guest:I never was told that.
Guest:But maybe that was Mamet's way of teaching.
Guest:But they literally said, if you don't want your life to be a roller coaster, this is when you're first semester or 18 years old.
Guest:If you don't want the rest of your life to be a creative roller coaster with no stability, you should get your parents' money back now and change your major.
Guest:They didn't make you think that anyone could do it.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:And when I heard that, I was like, like,
Guest:Put me in, coach.
Guest:I'm ready for it.
Guest:Yeah, let's go.
Guest:Yeah, it was very motivating.
Marc:I'm ready to throw it all away.
Guest:Yeah, but there was something William H. Macy, he said when we would do these Friday guest classes where they just had people who worked just speak in front of the three-year program.
Guest:And there's something he said where he was at his—I think the story was that he was at his—
Guest:father's funeral and he was like the worst thing about being an actor this like plague is that I was sitting at my father's funeral and there's a part of my brain that was thinking just remember what this feels like oh yeah and I'll never forget that because I go through everything in my life now you know it's like
Guest:i i that temptation or whatever that is yeah it's always there yeah it's just now a clearer voice because he said that yeah as opposed to this kind of nebulous thought that you don't realize that that's exactly what you're doing and not necessarily indulging in it but just oh wow this is a new thing right i remember what this feels like right yeah interesting
Marc:Yeah, you don't want to get to the point where – well, I mean, it's just a way – it's a different way of cataloging emotions.
Guest:Yeah, and processing.
Marc:Yeah, because, like, a lot of times, naturally, you want to either suppress them or channel them elsewhere.
Marc:It happens innately.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, like, you should isolate them at the very least to use –
Marc:for your art later, even if you can't handle the feelings in the moment or want to experience.
Marc:But it's interesting to me that you were very clear of like that, that real acting or acting that isn't based on the machine or branding or, or, you know, the, that nature of success is what drove you.
Marc:So there was almost, because you wanted to do it, there was not a spite, but an awareness that like, you know, that, that just eats people up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I also I never connected to I mean, I liked Star Wars and Jaws as a kid, but I never connected to whatever that was.
Guest:I was I was moved by Christopher Guest films and Woody Allen films.
Guest:And I
Guest:I like specifically the women in Woody Allen's films were a new type of woman for me to see that was separate from what you're saying, this kind of like larger brand limited characters.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what'd you earn in Moscow?
Guest:Well, a lot that necessarily wasn't about acting.
Guest:Living in Moscow, it was 2009.
Guest:So it was like our relationship to Russia was pretty quiet in the news at that point.
Guest:They hadn't invaded Crimea.
Guest:They hadn't had the Sochi Olympics where they had their homophobic laws that they were passing.
Guest:So it was a very different time when I was there.
Guest:And everything's in repertory theater.
Guest:So you can see the same actor in one week play two different parts or three different parts.
Marc:So you're learning about that part of the job.
Guest:It was just fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would see six plays a week.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:And there's so much – it was the best theater in the world.
Guest:It's so much experimental theater, so many experimental ways of telling stories, and you're not – you can't understand everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you're watching other elements of performance and storytelling that you're – it was so creative.
Guest:And also –
Guest:Everyone in Russia really respects the arts.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because it's the only thing that spoke for the people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And represented the people's voice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Whether it was through hidden allegory or literally.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where people, you know, were sent to live in Siberia.
Marc:So it had a power.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so instead of being embarrassed about wanting to be an actor, it was like, well, you were part of this history or whatever.
Marc:It's almost like noble.
Yeah.
Guest:To them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So and I needed I needed just like a grain of sand of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:To want to make it a real career.
Marc:And then you went back to NYU.
Guest:Went back to NYU.
Guest:And finished.
Guest:And I well it took me a while to finish because that summer I did Martha Marcy May Marlene.
Guest:And then.
Marc:That thing.
Marc:That's crazy.
Marc:That movie's crazy.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I loved that movie, and I love the people involved in making that movie.
Guest:It's a great group of people who are in that movie.
Marc:Unbelievable.
Guest:Yeah, they all have very interesting careers now for the most part.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, John Hawk is like sort of go-to that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But he can do anything.
Guest:He can do anything.
Marc:Well, I mean, I watched it, and, you know—
Marc:Like, I didn't quite realize until the murder that, you know, this was, you know, kind of loosely based on the Manson system in a way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was sort of like without all the trappings of the 60s or anything.
Marc:It was like the human element of what might have been the Manson style cult.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It was also a cult that was in England that it was also based off of.
Marc:What was that called?
Guest:I don't.
Marc:The Process Church.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:I actually don't remember.
Marc:But no, I thought you were great.
Marc:And I thought it was it was one of the rare movies.
Marc:Where because it's not the arc is not like she gets out and gets better.
Guest:No.
Marc:The arc is like, you know, this is, you know, a brain fucking of the highest degree and that there's menace and trouble and her life's at stake.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And a total rewiring of reality.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I thought it handled that in terms of the writing and the performances in a way that was totally understandable.
Guest:Yeah, I think Sean Durkin is a really special, special.
Marc:And that was your first role?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I that came out.
Guest:Yes, that that was like seen publicly.
Guest:I did a movie right before that wasn't released to like a year later.
Marc:And you were so good in that.
Guest:I think I'm okay in it.
Guest:I think Sean, I think Sean, I like, I, it opened up a career for me.
Guest:It was a launching pad for me that I wasn't, I didn't understand.
Guest:I just started auditioning.
Guest:I just came back from Russia.
Guest:I was still in college.
Guest:I was auditioning for like, you know, Shakespeare in the park and that movie.
Guest:And that's what came first.
Marc:But oddly, given your age and given all the stuff that you had absorbed through all these different programs and that you were young enough and engaging with all of it in an honest way, you must have entered that thing with a lot of ideas.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:And tools.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, yeah, I had a very specific point of view when I auditioned for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think that's why Sean went with me instead of an actress that had worked before.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, because literally you had been indoctrinated into acting.
Guest:What do you mean when you say that?
Marc:Well, I mean that the same type of thing.
Guest:Cult-wise?
Guest:Huh?
Guest:Yeah, in a way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, because the same kind of thing that that character who was vulnerable enough to be, you know, susceptible to it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You had made yourself pretty open to all these different ideas.
Guest:I was a raw nerve, yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So that kind of probably worked for you.
Guest:Yeah, I also didn't understand lenses at all.
Guest:I didn't understand...
Marc:I still don't.
Marc:Which camera's mine?
Guest:But I never thought of, I guess, the Jeff Daniels thing, what you look like on camera.
Guest:I didn't know that you should probably put your chin down for the lighting or something.
Guest:And so I think there is an awkwardness in all of that that lends to the telling of the story of this woman who's uncomfortable in her body.
Guest:There's just a lot of inherent discomfort of me not understanding how to tell a story in space on film.
Guest:Knowing that it didn't matter if it was a close up or, you know, very, very, very wide, even with me not knowing that the concept of those basic ideas, I cared a lot about telling, you know, the truth or whatever.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Like even in that moment, like, you know, like one of the most really menacing moments of the movie is that last shot.
Marc:Yeah, where you're in the car.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think we only shot that once because we were trying to get, like, the flare of the sunset behind us.
Marc:I mean, but it's just crazy, you know, like, how that kind of storytelling, like, you don't even see what's being referred to.
Marc:Like, what's this guy doing?
Guest:Yeah, and I—
Guest:I think about that movie and that time – I feel really grateful that when I started working, it was pre-social media and pre-having to brand yourself or create this kind of other energy behind you except for just the work itself.
Guest:I feel very lucky that that was the time I started because I'm not made for –
Guest:the self-branding.
Guest:I, I don't know how to do it at all.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um, or even like self-generating.
Guest:Like I, I want to like, I want to collaborate.
Guest:I want to work with people.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You don't want to be bothered with this.
Marc:Like, cause now like so much of young people's ambition is driven towards, you know, self-producing that stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which is really amazing.
Guest:And I, I, I,
Guest:I like getting involved in a project early on and helping them get financing and the right crew involved and things like that.
Guest:But, yeah, I didn't start off creating.
Guest:And so it's – I don't know.
Guest:No, it's good because – It's tedious right now, I feel.
Guest:It's hard right now to get anything made.
Marc:Yeah, for actors, but like the people that are coming up by just, you know, branding themselves and putting stuff out into the world through, you know, self-generating and doing content.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like... Like Christopher Borgially with all of his shorts that he would release on Vimeo.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Do you know who did... No.
Guest:Dream Scenario.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's brilliant.
Guest:Well, it's good when the talented ones get through, but it seems like there's... And he did some... But he did so many shorts and I'd seen all of them.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, somehow I found him before his...
Marc:Yeah, I like that movie a lot.
Guest:Yeah, he has a very great point of view, and he's really clever with how he reflects back culture.
Guest:Yeah, it was good.
Marc:It was really good.
Marc:There's one of the funniest scenes I've seen in my life in that movie.
Guest:Which one?
Marc:Where he starts farting.
Marc:I mean, that thing...
Marc:I mean, it is one of the funniest things.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because just that he gets talked into being this fantasy for this woman who had a concept of him.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then he is just this mess.
Guest:On this sofa.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It is so funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But that aside, I actually saw Kill Your Darlings at Sundance.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I had no idea what it was.
Marc:It was like I was at Sundance.
Guest:I don't know if I've even seen that movie, to be honest.
Marc:With Birbiglia's movie.
Marc:And I was just like, what can I go see?
Marc:And I was a beatnik freak when I was a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So that whole story about Lucien Carr murdering that guy, I mean, I knew about that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then just seeing how everybody handled that, those guys who I had a very strong sense of, and I thought you did a good job as well.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:I mean, I think I worked for three days.
Marc:Yeah, it wasn't a huge part.
Guest:No, but it was a great group of people.
Marc:Yeah, Ben Foster as Burroughs.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And who's the kid who played Lucian?
Guest:Dane DeHaan.
Marc:Yeah, that guy's intense.
Guest:Yeah, he's very good.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, like, I don't—to be honest with you, because, like, you know, I know about WandaVision.
Marc:I've watched a bit of it.
Marc:But, like, I didn't—like, it wasn't until that—the love and death thing—
Guest:Yeah, with Max or now Max.
Guest:It was HBO Max.
Marc:Yeah, whatever.
Marc:But I didn't know that story.
Marc:I didn't know what it was.
Marc:And then I knew Plemons was in it and I liked Lily.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I knew about you.
Marc:But when I watched that, I was like, who the fuck is this lady?
Yeah.
Marc:Why didn't anyone tell me about this person?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I have like an underdog mentality.
Guest:And I feel like I love being a workhorse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I love working.
Guest:But I've always known, like back to this old lady, I've always known that the time for me, that my peak wasn't young.
Guest:That my peak is going to be at another time.
Guest:my life if i get there like i my dream is to be like uh a reliable actor that people are like oh yeah remember her she did like that thing and that thing oh let's bring her back is she like well how old is she now like that's my dream is for someone to do that the thing that you remember her then then the next line is what happened
Guest:Yeah, no, no, I don't want that part.
Guest:They're like, let's bring her back.
Marc:Is she still around?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Is she still working?
Guest:Oh, yeah, she did that thing.
Marc:You're working at a very high level now.
Marc:Your peak is your consistency.
Marc:So there may not have to be this thing because that seems to be, in a way, what you're avoiding.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, because I also don't know how to capitalize on it.
Marc:No, but that thing was like, I thought you were amazing in that.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:I'm really proud of that show.
Guest:It's the best.
Guest:It was really, it was so fun.
Guest:And I think I get hungry to do character parts.
Guest:And so to have...
Guest:To be able to create this space for her and that world and that time of what it meant to be in Texas in a nuclear family and, like, gripping and holding on to the image of it was something I was excited to.
Marc:And then wrestling with these profound desires.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:That were consuming her.
Marc:But yet she still had to manage this control.
Marc:That was the very interesting thing about it.
Marc:And I don't know what, you know, from talking to you, I can understand where that comes from.
Marc:That, you know, that level of, you know, trying to control.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, you just learned it when we talked about soluble fiber and cholesterol.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Nice to meet you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:But it's interesting also that this thread of like, you know, even going back to that first film, the cult movie.
Marc:And then through, you know, even, you know, WandaVision, the telepathic thing, that there is a psychological life that is hidden by a certain detachment that doesn't, you know, like even in His Three Daughters.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:that your psychological and spiritual life is behind this thing that you move through the world with.
Guest:Yeah, and she specifically can only function within her family from a detached place because they'll never understand her psychological life.
Marc:I just like, Aza, like, you know...
Marc:When you break down that movie and think about what those characters, you know, at the core of what they were working with, you know, and that, you know, the older sister, Carrie, you know, it's all about this uncontrollable teenager, you know, and whatever resentment she has from the past, which you all sort of manage.
Marc:And Natasha, you know, is, you know, the kind of like...
Marc:uh real new yorker you know has had to deal with the father and the gambling and the the weed you know i get her but then like you out of nowhere is a deadhead like that moment yeah it's so funny that he wanted that from her it's so specific yeah it was so specific a friend of his who he'd been friends with for 30 years uh went through a divorce and um i guess he just one day
Guest:Told him, oh, yeah, I'm going to go see, you know, The Dead Show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, how often do you do that?
Guest:He's like, oh, I've been doing that my whole life.
Guest:And he's like, how do I not know this about you?
Guest:And he's like, well, no one's ever asked.
Guest:Like, no one cares.
Marc:It's such a specific thing.
Guest:And you know someone for 30 years.
Guest:And it's so specific that that's just this family you find that no one else will understand.
Guest:But that's where you go for it.
Guest:And it's this place of, like, peace and unconditional love.
Marc:It was such a surprising, interesting character thing.
Yeah.
Guest:It was really funny.
Guest:I was trying to connect the dots with it.
Marc:Because right when Carrie says, she's singing a Grateful Dead song, and I'm like, what's happening?
Marc:And then it turns out you're like full-on deadhead.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that's your spiritual life.
Guest:Yeah, that she needed to connect with people outside of her own family to...
Marc:But if you know about that world.
Guest:Yeah, which I didn't.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It opens up to sort of, oh, I get it.
Marc:She's like doing the dance and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, Oz, I'd worked with him twice before.
Guest:He and I have like developed a project together that we're still working on.
Guest:And he and I have just stayed friends for a while.
Guest:And he wrote it in a few days.
Guest:He shared it with me.
Guest:He said, I want to make this with Carrie Coon, who I knew he knew because of working with Tracy.
Guest:Tracy, yeah.
Guest:And then Natasha Lyonne, who we only knew really briefly, and she was like, I just want to make it with the three of you.
Guest:And I already know a financier.
Guest:This is how much they're able to give.
Guest:I want to shoot it, which works with like whatever works with everyone's schedule.
Guest:Three weeks or a month in New York.
Guest:And we're all equal partners.
Guest:And we're all equally invested as producers, creatives.
Guest:And he was only distributing these hard copies.
Guest:He didn't want it to exist in any other space.
Guest:And he knew he wanted to shoot it on film.
Guest:He was going to edit it himself.
Guest:He just wanted a regrounding to not being caught up in the machine of like...
Guest:international sales raising financing just like raising the money just like that part making an announcement to help raise money you know none of that he just wanted to make it in this contained bubble and like sort of how you know things were made in the 90s or when it's only it's the interiors the apartment the exterior is the bench yeah that's it yeah and so we were able i mean it's still hard to make a was that queens no we were in the lower east side
Marc:Oh, all the way down where the big buildings are?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know where that is.
Marc:Like below Delancey.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:They call it Dime Square now.
Marc:Yeah, by the bridge kind of?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, further east from Dime Square.
Marc:Yeah, from Dime Square.
Guest:Yeah, that's what they call it now.
Marc:Interesting.
Marc:Yeah, I know those buildings.
Marc:So was it fully scripted?
Guest:Yeah, we didn't change a word.
Guest:We did it like a play.
Marc:Did you do read-throughs?
Guest:Yeah, we did.
Guest:We did three days of script work and also trying to figure out how we all sound related because I had come in thinking about Deadhead.
Guest:I was I live part time in Northern California, like on a middle of nowhere.
Guest:And so I was kind of prepping in that space.
Marc:Were you listening to dead music?
Guest:I was trying to.
Guest:It's not for me.
Yeah.
Marc:I just listened to some yesterday.
Guest:It's not for me.
Marc:Yeah, I was never a huge deadhead.
Guest:I'm Lilith Fair, you know?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's not that far removed, but it is kind of weird, noodley, you know, hippie shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Lilith Fair is a few generations past that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, like Ani DeFranco was everything to me when I was younger.
Marc:Yeah, it's different.
Marc:Yeah, okay.
I get it.
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, yeah, it was like my brother also forced me to like get into the Eels.
Guest:And so like Wilco was something I loved.
Marc:The Eels, yeah.
Guest:It was like a mellow.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, that's not what I listen to, but that's like the type of adjacent world to that space.
Guest:But I came in thinking that the character spoke at a different rhythm than what ended up being what we did just because—
Guest:he was like, well, I still need her to feel New York.
Guest:And I was like, okay, okay, okay.
Guest:So it's more about the rhythm and the pacing.
Guest:And we tried to figure out sound changes collectively.
Guest:And Natasha was actually flattening out her natural go-to of New York.
Guest:Her New York?
Guest:Yeah, that was her flattening it out.
Guest:Yeah, I noticed that.
Guest:So it was us trying to level and change and find one another.
Marc:Because it could play as a play.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, which he never realized until after we had done it.
Marc:He could totally do that if he wanted to.
Guest:Yeah, if he wanted to.
Guest:Yeah, I think he's thinking about it.
Marc:Why not?
Guest:I don't know why not.
Guest:I think that's kind of where he is right now.
Marc:It's a one-act piece.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, I could see the set.
Guest:Yeah, it would be a beautiful set.
Marc:With the bench over to the right?
Marc:Just separately lit, maybe?
Guest:Yeah, I'm thinking about... Was it Aliens?
Guest:Is that Annie Baker's play that takes place in one... It's like one Thanksgiving or something?
Marc:Oh, it's the best.
Marc:The Humans.
Marc:No, no, that's another guy.
Guest:That's Steven.
Guest:What's his name?
Guest:Yeah, it wasn't Annie Baker.
Guest:Annie Baker did do Aliens, but I'm thinking of The Humans.
Marc:It's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I miss being able to see theater living in New York.
Guest:That was... We don't really have much there.
Guest:Did you see the Mamet play in Santa Monica?
Marc:No.
No.
Guest:He did a play with Shia.
Guest:I missed it.
Guest:I wasn't in town.
Marc:It felt like it was going to be menacing just to go to it.
Guest:People loved it.
Marc:They did?
Guest:They loved it.
Guest:They said it was like amazing.
Marc:I should have went.
Marc:I saw Tracy's play at the Mark Taper.
Marc:What's that one he did?
Guest:Tracy Letts' play.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:I like Tracy a lot.
Marc:I do too.
Marc:I'm terrible with names of things.
Guest:I am too, but I'm trying to be better at it.
Guest:I try and like now I don't even know.
Marc:Like, you know, there's people I've known for 20 years and I'm like, hey, how's it going, buddy?
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:You know, there's sometimes where I think like, oh, yeah, that movie.
Guest:What was that director's name?
Guest:And that I've worked with.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And that's that's horrible.
Marc:Yeah, I love the movie and I thought it was great.
Guest:Thanks.
Marc:I thought you were great.
Marc:And I think you are a great actress.
Guest:Well, thank you.
Guest:You don't need to say that because you I mean, I'd assume you would you only interview people that you have like an inkling of.
Marc:Well, but with you, like, there are moments I have sometimes with people that have been around for a long time that, like, I don't quite know until I know.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And, like, specifically with you, when I watched that HBO thing, I was like, oh, my God!
Marc:Does anyone know about her?
Marc:Someone tell the people!
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you're not the first person who said that to me.
Marc:About that?
Guest:About that show.
Guest:Yeah, and I love that.
Guest:Oh, it's the best.
Guest:I'd rather that than expectation.
Marc:No, no, it's great because now I have this sense of you and then I went back and I watched that first movie.
Marc:Oh, for me.
Marc:And I watched Oz's movie and I remember vaguely the— Kill your daughter.
Marc:Yeah, but now there's other things I can watch, but I can also watch whatever you're going to be working on.
Marc:And now I kind of want to watch all of WandaVision.
Marc:But look, you know, we'll see.
Marc:But I've had this happen before.
Marc:Like, I watched that third season of True Detective with Mahershala Ali and Dorf.
Guest:And I'm watching, I'm like, who the fuck's that guy?
Guest:Who, Mahershala?
Marc:No, I know who he is.
Marc:Oh, Dorf.
Marc:I hadn't seen him in years.
Marc:And I'm like, where did this guy come from?
Marc:And then they're like, it's Dorf.
Marc:I'm like, what the fuck?
Marc:That's Dorf?
Guest:That is so funny.
Yeah.
Marc:You know, when did he become this character, this, like, where's he been?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I was obsessed.
Marc:I'm like, I got to talk to Dorf.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I did.
Guest:Yeah, we have, we've met before.
Guest:I kind of grew up knowing his family.
Marc:The musical, the songwriter dad and the brother?
Guest:No, Mort's mother, actually.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah, who was very close with my best friend's mom.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:And I was very close with this friend, or I still am, but...
Marc:But what you get when you do it the way you do it and even the way he's decided to do it to let go of whatever was going on early in his career and the push to make him a leading man is that once you become a character actor and you get involved with the process of really doing the acting, you can live a life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you can live an interesting life.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like, you know, because a lot of these character actors, they're weirdos who really just want to live the interesting life that they live.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And do this other thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's why there's I have this.
Guest:Lack of attachment to this career.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I find the people I meet in the world who have led multiple lives and have had multiple careers to be some of the most fascinating people that are walking the planet.
Guest:And so I don't have an attachment to needing to do this forever.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I would like to because I fucking love it.
Marc:Well, yeah, you seem to challenge yourself and take risks and do the thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And hopefully continue to grow a group of people that I like working with.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, I mean, yeah.
Marc:I mean, it's good that you're at an age where you have these realizations that, you know, you can make decisions about how you want to live your life before it's just sort of like, what did I do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How did I just do that one thing?
Guest:Yeah, I think the hard thing right now is by not like placating to the system, there are projects, every project that I have made in the last two years, I've been attached to for over a year before the financing came through.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:And we are in production.
Guest:And so I think it's just been kind of, it's hard to figure out how to have like an international value above your head.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And make it work for you.
Marc:I don't think about any of that shit.
Guest:Well, because you have so many other avenues.
Guest:I guess.
Marc:But even with like, you know, with acting and with being a part of projects, I have no real sense outside of the immediacy of what I'm doing in a way.
Marc:Like people are asking me, like, when's this show come out?
Marc:I'm like, I don't know.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, when do you wrap?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't I just my brain doesn't do it.
Marc:But like I'm about to get involved with producing and possibly directing a film.
Marc:And I know I have to start thinking about.
Guest:And that would be completely different.
Guest:And so is the experience of you saying of working on the next one hour comedy.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Building that thing.
Guest:Building that.
Guest:But that's that's all completely within your control.
Guest:Whereas this other thing's not in your it's just it's like it's a side gig.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Guest:And so it's different.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's not the thing that I do.
Guest:Yeah, it is the thing that I do.
Guest:And so I become obsessed with how it functions in the system of the world and how— Well, no, it's good.
Marc:I mean, I need to do a little—I do that with comedy.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:Yeah, I get what you're saying.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But ultimately, the obsession is— Did you write the thing you want to direct?
Marc:The obsession is food, and we can just admit that.
Yeah.
Guest:Okay, okay, okay.
Guest:We don't have to go do the thing that you're going to direct.
Guest:That's fine.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:It's my best friend.
Marc:He's a novelist in New York and he's a brilliant guy.
Marc:And, you know, he's written six or seven.
Marc:He's a teacher at Columbia.
Marc:And he wrote this book and I'm like, this has got to be a movie.
Marc:And I told him, I said, I'm going to option this.
Guest:Is it fiction?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I optioned it.
Marc:And, you know, and he did a draft and we've been chipping away at it.
Marc:We're on the fifth draft now.
Marc:Just kind of like, you know, making it into something that has the propulsion of the story that I want to tell with it.
Guest:So that's my favorite process.
Marc:Yeah, it's great.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:And working with the guy who wrote it, it's an interesting thing because he's a fiction writer.
Marc:So there's a delicacy.
Marc:It's sort of like, well, just hear me out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:How does this serve the story?
Marc:What is the story that we want to do for the movie?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because it takes on a different structure.
Marc:Well, yeah, because there's this idea of kill your darlings.
Marc:Like, you know, he's got all these things from the book.
Marc:And I'm like, you're not killing anything.
Marc:The book lives.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's just a movie.
Guest:And also translating books.
Guest:Sorry, I like talking a lot.
Guest:Sorry, I think you want to wrap it up.
Guest:No, it's fine.
Guest:The thing that I find interesting with, like I love Otessa Mosvig's writing.
Guest:I don't know if you've ever, she wrote year of, her most famous book is The Year of Magical Thinking.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or The Year of Rest and Relaxation.
Guest:Sorry, The Year of Rest and Relaxation.
Guest:Oh, no, yeah, it's different, yeah.
Guest:Magical thinking is Joan Didion.
Guest:But she's a younger writer, really funny, brutal, clever.
Guest:She's really smart.
Guest:But her character's...
Guest:But what's funny are their thoughts, not necessarily always their actions.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:It's tricky.
Guest:And so it's very hard when you live in novels and you become attached to characters because of their thoughts.
Marc:I think it's really hard to make— And then how do you do that?
Marc:Translate it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also a lot of times the characters in books, they talk a lot and for long periods of time and in a way of talking that is not inherently the way people talk.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So it becomes very tricky to isolate the language or break it up in a way that is going to be not only visual, but maintain the pace of a visual medium.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So but it's been great.
Marc:And we landed on a draft that we're showing people now.
Guest:Fun.
Marc:So, all right, to come full circle.
Marc:Now, so who is the old New York lady that you are?
Guest:How do you see it?
Guest:I see a woman who's lived in many cities in her life and that she's on a coastal town in the U.K.
Guest:and she maybe has a dog and she spends her days walking to small shops and
Guest:taking lots of walks, maybe having an affair with some other older man.
Guest:And she just reads and cooks and knows the people that are in this town.
Guest:And that's kind of this woman that I've always dreamt of as being this goal of mine, which is weird because it's a loan.
Guest:which is strange.
Guest:But I've always wanted to be someone of stories to share and to have had the experiences to share them.
Guest:I think if you get to that point in your life, you're a very lucky person.
Marc:That's a good old lady.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's not the old lady I just played who's like far more... Who had lived a full life, but she's like far more obsessed, neurotic.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's a much different pace of a woman.
Marc:Well, my New York old man was like... Because I had this...
Marc:This is just the last year where I was like, I'm going to buy an apartment in New York because I'm 60.
Marc:I'm like, where do I want to get old?
Marc:I'm like, I want to be an old New York guy.
Marc:There's so much culture, the museums and everything.
Marc:And it just seems like a lively place to be.
Marc:So I had this whole idea.
Marc:And ultimately, living a bi-coastal life, there's always that dream of having a place in New York.
Marc:So I was in the middle of getting a place in New York.
Marc:And I had this realization, like I'd gone to New York, you know, and I got mad at something, something stupid.
Marc:And it was literally I'm in New York.
Marc:I'm at the coffee shop and the Whole Foods on Houston.
Marc:And I just wanted a paper cup.
Marc:You know, I just wanted a paper cup.
Marc:And I just bought coffee.
Marc:And I said, I just have a cup.
Marc:And she's like, well, I have to charge you a dollar.
Marc:And I was like, what the fuck?
Marc:I just bought.
Marc:And I went into this place.
Marc:that was so informed by the city.
Marc:And it was at that moment I realized I'm not going to be the old sort of intellectual New York guy who goes to theaters.
Marc:I'm going to be the guy, you know, kind of walking quickly down, you know, second Avenue with a strand book bag and two other plastic bags yelling about something.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm not...
Guest:But there's something about, I think, living in a city as you're getting older and you're like constantly having you cultures in your face.
Guest:The arts are in your face.
Guest:If you live in a walk up, it's good for your health as an old person.
Guest:Like Oz's parents have lived in the same walk up his whole life.
Guest:And mom is man.
Guest:And I think that literally keeps people.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:I mean, I get that.
Marc:But if you've there your whole life, you know, like it turns out when I go to New York, there's like four things I do.
Marc:I go to Mogador.
Marc:I go to the Whitney.
Marc:You know, I'll go see a show.
Marc:I got a friend to jazz at Lincoln Center.
Marc:I'll go see Lincoln Center.
Marc:But within three days of being there, I'm like, I'm done.
Marc:I can go back.
Marc:So so whether so I think I'm moving more towards New Mexico.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Which is like part of that coastal UK.
Guest:Yeah, that's a little different.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like nature, space.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So we're on the same page.
Marc:Good talking to you.
Guest:Nice to talk to you too.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:I love her acting.
Marc:Great person.
Marc:Very enjoyable.
Marc:Always like to talk about food.
Marc:Love it.
Marc:His Three Daughters is now streaming on Netflix.
Marc:Hang out for a minute, folks.
Marc:Hey, if you want to hear more from the director of His Three Daughters, I had him on the show back in 2021.
Marc:This is me talking to Aza Jacobs from episode 1213.
Marc:These films all stay alive.
Marc:That's a good way to describe it.
Marc:They stay alive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I, I mean, and again, I think Hal Ashby for me is somebody that I always go back to.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:And, and all men are somebody like, these are people that whose films play in a loop in my head.
Guest:And then there's certain films, like I saw King of Comedy in the theater when it came out, but that's a film that I go back to all the time every couple of years and go, how is this film possible?
Guest:It just seems, it just seems magic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there are films that definitely have had life changing influences and that I keep thinking about and never trying to go, OK, can I make a film like that?
Guest:But definitely have it.
Guest:I want to be in conversation with them with the movies that I make.
Guest:I want those films to answer and at least thank them for giving me what I feel like they've given to me in my life.
Marc:You can listen to that for free wherever you're listening to this episode.
Marc:If you want all episodes of WTF ad-free, sign up for WTF+.
Marc:Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+.
Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.
Marc:And now I'm going to play with my Looper again.
Marc:.
guitar solo
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.
.
.
guitar solo
Thank you.
Guest:guitar solo
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:.
.
.
Marc:Boomer lives, monkey, and the fond of cat angels everywhere.
Marc:It's an abrupt ending.
Marc:I'm getting the hang of it.
Marc:I'm getting the hang of it.