Episode 1575 - Jason Ritter
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuck, Nicks?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I am Marc Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:How are you feeling?
Marc:I feel better, alright?
Marc:I told you on Monday that I must have been about two or three days into COVID.
Marc:It's weird because...
Marc:I feel okay, and my symptoms are okay, but when I did test positive, I was like, well, I'm calling the doc.
Marc:I'm going to need some of that Paxlovid.
Guest:I've got to get on that old-timey COVID panic.
Guest:I didn't want to, like, oh, my God.
Guest:With the old protocols, it was like you just waited for sometimes, you know, 10 to 14 days until you tested clean, looking at that second line.
Guest:Like, it's just a hint.
Guest:There's hardly anything there.
Guest:It's not, oh, my God.
Guest:I don't think I can take it anymore.
Guest:But whatever the case, wherever we're at now, whatever I got, it's manageable.
Guest:Like I'm about, what, four days in?
Marc:And it really didn't have much of a different impact than a kind of a bad cold or one of those unkind of identifiable cold flu-y things.
Marc:Like, my fever never got too high.
Marc:My lungs never got fucked up.
Marc:I never got a sore throat.
Marc:My head is thick with snot.
Marc:It's thick.
Marc:It's deep, too.
Marc:So I just tried to take care of myself.
Marc:But I did call, you know, to do that thing, that sort of like, do you have the Pax Lovid?
Marc:I don't want to die.
Marc:That's where that comes from, that era, I think.
Marc:And the doc I talked to said, look, man, we're not... Well, she didn't say man.
Marc:But she said, you know, Paxlovid is not really up to date.
Marc:It was designed for an older strain.
Marc:Sometimes there are side effects that are kind of fucked up.
Marc:Diarrhea, nauseousness, maybe vomiting.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You know, the regular list.
Marc:of the side effects and that they really only use it for people who are, you know, immunocompromised or health compromised, otherwise are older.
Marc:And she was like, and I'm like, well, what do I do?
Marc:She's like, well, ride it out.
Marc:You pussy.
Marc:She didn't say that last part.
Marc:Jason Ritter is on the show today.
Marc:Now, I didn't know a ton about him.
Marc:You know, I knew I knew who he was.
Marc:I knew he's the son of John Ritter.
Marc:I knew he is married to Melanie Linsky, who's been on the show before and who I love.
Marc:And people told me that he would be a good guy to talk to.
Marc:But that's all I really had to go on.
Marc:But then I kind of learned a little more about him, and I'm like, all right, let's do it.
Marc:He's got some stuff.
Marc:It's hard to be the son of a dad who everyone loved.
Marc:Everyone loved.
Marc:And who passed away, it's difficult.
Marc:And, you know, that's all I knew going into it, and I really enjoyed that conversation.
Marc:And now he and Melanie have different but matching WTF Brian Jones mugs.
Marc:So look, I'm going to be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater.
Marc:That's tomorrow, Friday, September 20th.
Marc:I will be beyond the five-day isolation.
Marc:I do think I'll feel okay for it.
Marc:Then I'll be in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theater on Saturday.
Marc:There'll be about 600 to 700 of us in a room that seats 1350.
Marc:So that'll be intimate.
Marc:It'll be nice.
Marc:You know, it'll feel special.
Marc:And then I'll be back here in L.A.
Marc:at Largo on Thursday, October 3rd.
Marc:And I'll probably be doing some comedy store spots here and there.
Marc:I'm doing a benefit for Kamala this Sunday.
Marc:I guess that would be the 22nd at the comedy store because I am 100% behind Kamala Harris.
Marc:There you have it.
Marc:Don't hit me with the like, but what about how she, I don't care.
Marc:But what about where she stands?
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:But don't you think you ought to think through the policy?
Marc:No, I don't care.
Marc:It's fascism.
Marc:We're fighting.
Marc:Look at the big picture.
Guest:Whatever tool you need to fight the big F let's do it.
Marc:So you're asking yourself, so Mark, how did you spend your time on,
Marc:With this COVID at home, isolating, trying not to lose your mind.
Marc:What did you do at that time, sir?
Marc:Well, as there's some important stuff, as I told you, I told you on what day was it?
Marc:Monday.
Marc:You know, there's been things building.
Marc:My bathroom drawers were full of shit.
Marc:I didn't understand anymore.
Marc:Attempts at things.
Marc:You know, different nose hair trimmers, stuff I didn't like, tubes of stuff that I got on a trip to Europe at some point, vitamins from a foreign country, many travel size things that were half emptied or repurposed, a whole different thing.
Marc:Like just, I don't know, seemed like a lifetime of garbage.
Marc:And you know that moment you have where you're like, oh, I'm going to fucking throw all this away.
Marc:I mean, all of it, like just stuff, like, even if it's like technology, even if it's stuff you plug in, you can throw shit away.
Marc:You have to plug in.
Marc:Fuck it.
Marc:Well, don't you want to give it to good?
Marc:No, I'm not going to, I'm not going to start sorting and hoarding and doing hoarding, organizing for another place.
Marc:It was so great.
Marc:I just threw so much shit away, and now there's nothing there, and I probably have to buy toothpaste, but whatever.
Marc:Still, oh, there was a lot of little tubes of toothpaste of brands I didn't even use.
Marc:I don't even know where they came from.
Marc:The dentist, the road, I don't know.
Marc:I don't know, but I never throw anything away.
Marc:And then I did.
Marc:And I feel lighter.
Marc:I feel kind of amazing.
Marc:Yeah, it was pretty good.
Marc:I put the guitars I don't use in the closet.
Marc:I arranged my amps.
Marc:I got out the MXR clone looper, which I've had for like probably over a year.
Marc:And I tried to do it once and I just, I'm just, you know, it's stupid.
Marc:But I did figure it out.
Marc:I followed some instructions.
Marc:I did a very basic attempt at some looping, which you'll hear at the end of this episode.
Marc:And I've got to be honest with you.
Marc:It was a pretty exciting thing to sort of get just a very basic two chord loop going.
Marc:And then for me to play lead on top of me playing rhythm, it kind of freed me up because I generally don't get to play lead with anything but records or guys who are better than me.
Marc:So I just was able to lay down a kind of a mediocre rhythm and then play my mediocre lead riffs over it, trying to use my Mixolydian scales.
Marc:Trying to use my major and Mixolydian skills.
Marc:I'm not sure I know the difference.
Marc:I think I was using them.
Marc:It sounded kind of like Jerry-ish.
Marc:Anyway, that happened.
Marc:That was a long time coming.
Marc:So, okay, I'm feeling better.
Marc:But, like, right now, I feel like my voice isn't great.
Marc:I finished... Wow.
Marc:Brain fog.
Marc:COVID brain fog.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:I'm in trouble.
Marc:How am I going to remember my material?
Marc:How am I even going to do anything if I can't fucking pull a name up that out of my head, you know, from that I knew this morning, right?
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Anyway, I finished Kathleen Hannah's book.
Marc:I'm going to talk to her, I think, next week.
Marc:I don't know when we're going to put it up.
Marc:But, man, it's a great book.
Marc:You know, I read these biographies, and I feel very close to the people after I read them.
Marc:I was emotionally invested.
Marc:She's not that much younger than me, so a lot of the world that she was talking about artistically was... Anyway, there's no reason for me to talk about that now when I can talk about it before I talk to her.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:Have we had enough?
Marc:I'm starting to sweat a little bit.
Marc:Look, Jason Ritter...
Marc:He's on this new CBS show.
Marc:It's a retread.
Marc:Is that how you say it?
Marc:Redo.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:Brain fog.
Marc:They rebooted Matlock.
Marc:which was, what's that guy's name?
Marc:Griffith's.
Marc:Andy Griffith's show when he was 100.
Marc:And it stars Kathy Bates.
Marc:Ritter's in it.
Marc:It premieres this Sunday, September 22nd.
Marc:I talked to Jason Ritter.
Marc:It was a very nice and pretty deep and great guy.
Marc:Good conversation.
Marc:And here we are doing that.
Marc:I've been watching so many fucking movies.
Marc:God forbid I work on the part.
Marc:I know.
Marc:That's always the struggle.
Marc:Is it?
Marc:Am I doing it?
Marc:Am I doing it enough?
Guest:Am I the guy?
Guest:Am I doing it?
Guest:The question for me is always, am I doing it enough or am I doing it too much?
Guest:You know, like it's a weird thing where I feel like I have to put it down at a certain point.
Guest:Otherwise, I'll overthink it.
Marc:Oh, right, right.
Marc:And then you're completely detached from the two minutes you have to do the acting part.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:But then I'm like, I can't work on it too much.
Guest:And then I go in and I can't remember my lines.
Guest:And I'm like, I should have done it a little bit more.
Guest:Maybe a little bit more.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:Like now at this point, because I've been on this show like two and a half months, like it gets to the point where you're like, am I even doing the guy anymore?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Am I even, is this the character?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's the bothersome part about it.
Marc:Are you having fun, though?
Marc:Do you like working on it?
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Everybody's great.
Marc:Seems like, yeah.
Marc:You know, but, like, you really, I mean, you kind of want, the real thrill of it is if you have a scene where there's some meat to it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And that's not most of them.
Marc:Right.
Marc:A lot of times.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:You know, it's like, you know, we're doing a half a page.
Marc:You just say, like, I'm here.
Marc:And you're like, oh, that's half the day.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my gosh.
Marc:But there are moments where that's just what I've been focusing on.
Marc:Like, can I access, like, okay, make a decision about this guy and how he acts.
Marc:And then, like, when the emotional stuff happens, you know, and this is sort of a dramedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, like, I'm in there.
Marc:I'm like, I'm going deep, man.
Marc:I'm going to fucking find this sadness.
Marc:And now I'm wondering, like, am I going to be the only guy doing that?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Here he comes again.
Guest:Hey, guys.
Marc:Wow, that is really... Sad Crank, you guys are really leaning into it.
Marc:Oh, my gosh.
Marc:It's kind of taking away the funny part.
Guest:No, but yeah, I think you're so great at that, like, marrying those two worlds of comedy and drama.
Guest:And the sadness.
Guest:Well, just having it have, like, a weight and having it feel like a real person and never, you know, I don't know.
Guest:You were so amazing in Glow.
Marc:Oh, thanks.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that was good, you know, and there were some sad parts.
Marc:And I worked with your wife on that one episode of Easy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That was some of the best acting I did, I think.
Marc:She loved it.
Marc:And she was pregnant when she did that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's a very funny moment in that where she wasn't supposed to be pregnant.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And I said, so you're having another one?
Guest:I'm not pregnant.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:She was like six months or something like that.
Guest:And so I think you guys had a conversation where we're like, we have to acknowledge.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then, yeah, it was great way to do that.
Marc:i'm not pregnant yeah oh it was the worst like here i'm trying to like you know kind of take responsibility yeah yeah whatever she's you know uh you know for my improprieties yes yeah and that's the first thing i say it's so perfect what a great way to start off already awkward we had that scene but it was great one day it was good she loved that that was so fun how's she doing
Guest:She's doing great.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Working.
Guest:Working, yeah.
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Guest:Are they doing more yellow jackets?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's back right now, but she's been going back and forth from Vancouver to do yellow jackets.
Marc:She's up there, too?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You guys should have a coffee.
Marc:We should.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I didn't know she was up there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When's she going back up there?
Yeah.
Guest:uh she has a a pretty good break i think no actually we're both gonna go up uh next week oh yeah i'm going back up tomorrow oh cool because for the most part my daughter our daughter's been in school and melanie's been coming back and forth yeah and so for a month the idea was that i was going to be the one going back and forth but then we were moving and all sorts of that's an actor's life how's i don't even understand yeah i'm away from my cats for two weeks and i'm like i
Guest:they okay i yeah are they gonna remember me it was really hard for melanie uh being this is the longest like she's been away but she would come back i mean she would come back every weekend like i would be like have a weekend you can yeah don't make yourself crazy yeah yeah yeah um and she's like i saturday morning to yeah for two days absolutely yeah she just like it was so that's a normal thing
Guest:For her, yeah.
Guest:I mean, she's tired.
Marc:I thought I was being crazy.
Marc:Like, any time I come back, I'm going to come back.
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:You feel the emotional element.
Marc:You've got to reground yourself.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:That's a huge part of it.
Marc:But that thing you did, the Matlock thing, that was here, right?
Marc:That's here.
Guest:I'm still doing it.
Guest:I'm almost done.
Marc:Oh, it's still in it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it's still going.
Guest:I have three episodes from the end of the season.
Marc:It's interesting because I watch a pilot, you know, and it's...
Marc:There is a world of, of like just old school TV acting.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You like, and I don't, because none of us, you know, are constant, like it's, it used to be all there was.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Was TV.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then when you see TV, you're sort of like, wow, this is kind of old timey.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:But a lot of people, certainly of a certain age, watch just TV, procedurals and whatnot.
Marc:And it's sort of like a procedural, isn't it?
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, there's like a case of the week and I mean, a case of the day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I guess it's a weekly television show.
Guest:But then there's also like a mystery that kind
Marc:Yeah, right, yeah.
Marc:Is it really based on, because I can't remember Matlock.
Guest:I started, yeah, I checked out a couple episodes.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah, and it's really funny.
Guest:Andy Griffith?
Guest:Yeah, it's, yeah, Andy Griffith, and the idea of it is, because I was a Columbo guy.
Guest:That was the show that, like.
Guest:Were you alive for Columbo?
Marc:No.
Marc:Were you watching repeats of it?
Marc:I watched repeats of it.
Marc:Like on Nick at Night or something?
Marc:What?
Guest:Well, Mariana Palka that you worked with.
Guest:On Glow, yeah, sure.
Guest:The Viking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She and I, we went into a deep Columbo dive.
Guest:And we ended up getting all the DVD box sets.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just like we would find out there's a new movie or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's just, Peter Falk is just so great.
Guest:He is great.
Guest:Matlock is a similar sort of idea.
Guest:Not a detective, but a lawyer.
Guest:But people basically underestimate him.
Guest:That's the whole thing is he's just like, what's this?
Marc:I don't know what I'm doing.
Marc:A country bumpkin who's smarter than everybody.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And that's Kathy Bates.
Guest:And that's Kathy Bates, yeah.
Marc:How's she doing?
Guest:She's great.
Guest:I mean, she's like, you know, it's incredible to watch her stuff.
Guest:Yeah, just because it's like...
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:She's intense, man.
Guest:She is intense.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she, I mean, she has, she'll come in and I think part of the character is like, oh, I'm just talking.
Guest:I'm just, don't worry about me.
Guest:So she has like monologue after monologue after monologue that she's just like rattling through.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it, you know, it makes you, especially in the pilot, there was like a couple of scenes where she comes in and has like three pages of just talking and I have like my one line and I'm sitting there and it's like, don't, I just got to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Zing it in there and don't mess it up.
Guest:But it is weird being in a scene with someone that you hold so high.
Marc:I know.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:You're just like, it's hard to just be present and be in it and be like, oh, we're both actors.
Guest:We're peers in this moment.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's always hard to just be like, just don't mess it up.
Guest:Let her, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Listen.
Marc:Listen.
Guest:listen yeah just be present stay engaged like going outside of yourself and be like oh this is kathy bates yeah yeah or you're sitting there here comes here comes my time oh my gosh that that especially when i have these one little lines that i throw in a scene i'm like okay i got them all in order i know with the with the like the lawyer lingo sometimes too i'm just in my head saying those the four word phrase they have no idea what you mean
Marc:Yeah, I'm doing my shows based on golf and I don't know anything about golf.
Marc:So I got to do these sort of like he's going to hit into the bunker.
Marc:It should roll.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't even know what this shit is.
Marc:And so I got to be like, so the bunker is a sandpit, right?
Marc:That's a sandpit.
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Marc:And then when I talk in golf lingo, but it's it's weird.
Marc:I think once you appreciate the idea of acting, like, you know, when you want to be good at it, you're like, I should really, you know, know about this.
Marc:I should be in it.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You know, I got to do some research, and I did.
Marc:But ultimately, you're pretending to know.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And if you can pretend well, you're all set.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And then, yeah.
Marc:No one's going to be like, he really doesn't know what he's talking about.
Guest:I know.
Guest:No, I had a thing where I had to play a hacker, a guy who's really good at computers.
Guest:And at first I started looking into it and like, what do people do?
Guest:What are they pressing?
Guest:What buttons are they pressing?
Guest:And then I was just like, I'm going to just do little circles with my hands on the computer.
Guest:And if somebody is like, he's not really hacking, it's different than piano or something like that.
Guest:Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Just, yeah.
Marc:The guys who are going to say he's not really hacking are like, who cares?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Press return every once in a while.
Guest:But of course you're not.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:And the point is not like I'm getting it accurately.
Guest:You know, it's not like, I think there's like a part of my brain that thinks of like Jeffrey Rush and Shine when he does, you know, Flight of the Mumblebees and it's him.
Guest:and it's amazing.
Marc:Yeah, like all the method-y kind of stuff.
Guest:Yeah, like pan from my hands to the actual actor.
Marc:Right, junket interviews where you're like, well, you know, I could have become a professional hacker.
Marc:That's how deep I got into it.
Marc:I actually was at home and I hacked into the Pentagon and I'm like, all right, I got this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:At least I can do the character now.
Guest:Actually, I had three days between the time that I got the part and we had, or whatever.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think this thing of like, hey, we're casting you as this part and you have six months to really prepare and get into it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's like, no, you have a couple weeks maybe.
Marc:And then what do you do with the six months?
Marc:And then you get there and like, unless you're a certain type of actor, you're just sort of like kind of doing you anyways.
Oh.
Guest:Well, that's the thing.
Guest:And I also, I always like, I think there's a certain level of like, of confidence that I always think about, you know, like Daniel Day-Lewis or somebody like that.
Guest:And like, you know, that first day on set where, you know, like there will be blood or something like that, where like he's been in the woods for six months and he's like, he talks like people talked back in the day or something.
Guest:And then he shows up on set and he goes, hello, my name is, and everyone's like,
Guest:Like I couldn't do that.
Guest:I feel I even if I really did work on it and he's brilliant.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Obviously.
Guest:But like I there's a certain level of like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You just got to accept it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's I. Yeah.
Marc:There's like five actors that do that.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And then there's another five that you think they're doing that, but they just kind of got a natural thing that you can't even explain.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And they just can lock in.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think about it a lot in terms of how much you bring to it.
Marc:But then the weird thing is...
Marc:When you do work with big actors, you know, they're just people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they've got whatever tricks they've got, you know, to whatever they're doing.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:It's just the services thing.
Marc:And then it's, you know, it's done.
Marc:And you're like, all right.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But when you grow up watching it, you're like, oh, my God.
Marc:It's fucking amazing.
Marc:Like I did that one scene with De Niro and the Joker.
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:And I was literally like watching him because I was on the set all week and he's doing this, he's playing that talk show host and he doesn't know his lines, you know, and it's, and they're doing over and over again.
Marc:And I'm, you know, and it's like totally demystifying De Niro to me because I've watched him my whole life.
Marc:I mean, obviously he's a great actor, but because they understand something, people who live their lives on camera and have been doing it that long.
Marc:Cause I'm watching, I'm like, this is a disaster.
Yeah.
Marc:How are they going to cut this together?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's like he's not even getting the lines.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:But he knew.
Marc:Like, he knew that it was all going to cut up, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You know, they're just sort of like he's been on set so many times where he's just going to do it and do it and do it, and they'll find one.
Guest:Right, right, exactly.
Guest:And he's kind of, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I don't always think to do that.
Marc:You can think, well, let's shoot a series.
Marc:I'll just do it over and over again.
Marc:Timothy Oliphant is on the set now.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:He's got a support role in this, and he showed up, and he's doing the thing.
Marc:And it's me and Owen, and it's a big scene.
Marc:And it's like we're about to leave or do something.
Marc:It's transition.
Marc:He's got a little bit of a monologue.
Marc:So we deal with the setup for it, and then he just keeps doing it over and over again without really telling us.
Marc:So he just goes back into it.
Marc:But I know what he's doing because it's his coverage.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:So, like, fuck it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Let's just keep going.
Marc:Then as other actors, you're like, we're going to be here to support him.
Marc:Keep answering him.
Guest:Keep doing it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The only time when it's complicated is when you're also on camera.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then you're like, where are we going from?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, I'm sorry.
Guest:You know.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:Wait, wait, wait.
Guest:Okay, okay, okay.
Marc:Okay, okay.
Guest:Let me get my face right.
Marc:Yeah, but... The face.
Guest:The faces and gestures.
Marc:But, like, for you, like, I mean, like, I was looking at...
Marc:Well, your dad, John Ritter, was like one of the great funny guys on television.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:And also he did some good movies.
Marc:But he was like of a generation of actors.
Marc:They just worked in television.
Marc:And they were working all the fucking time.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:There's this whole world of TV actors that you kind of know.
Marc:I mean, his second wife, Amy, too, was a TV actor.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:But they were omnipresent.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They were just always there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, there also were much fewer channels.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's kind of crazy, though, that there was this world of working actor that everybody knew.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because we were all watching the same television shows.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And also that was the time where it's like, you know, when you'd see them in a movie, you'd be like, what is he doing in that?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Marc:You know the character from TV.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then when they made the jump to movie, you're like, oh, I don't know how this is going to go.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's such a different world now.
Guest:There's much more fluidity between those two things.
Guest:But there was really, especially in that time, like either a television actor or a film actor.
Guest:And television actors seemed much more accessible, I think.
Marc:Yeah, because you see them all the time.
Marc:Yeah, every week.
Marc:There they are.
Marc:And you grew up in that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you remember being on the set of Three's Company?
Guest:Not on Three's Company.
Guest:I was born in the middle of that.
Guest:So you're really young?
Guest:I was born in 80, February 1980.
Guest:So I think it finished in 83 or 84.
Marc:So you're well into the Don Knotts period.
Guest:well the first the first show you know the the the version of three's company that i became aware of yeah was with yeah mr furley and terry yeah uh priscilla barnes so it's funny to then go back and watch the other stuff and stuff uh which they're all and and uh suzanne summers and it was they're all the iterations are really fun and great but mr roper but i why am i spacing that actor's name
Guest:Norman Fell.
Guest:Oh, Fell.
Marc:Norman Fell.
Guest:And Audra Lindley as the, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Norman Fell.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you remember him in The Graduate?
Marc:I don't like you.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:He's so great.
Marc:Do you know Richard Dreyfuss sticks his head in?
Marc:Should I call the cops?
Marc:Oh, my gosh.
Marc:It's got one line in it.
Guest:That's so funny.
Guest:I'll call the cops.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:I don't like you.
Guest:You could really have a simmering anger at Norman Fell.
Marc:But he was one of those guys who started doing a little bit of movies and he's like a TV guy.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's so funny that you go back and you see these movies and you're like,
Marc:Oh, my gosh.
Marc:Yeah, he was a bit player.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like he just got the gig.
Marc:I think that was the thing is that, you know, people and I think it's still the same way.
Marc:Only like a lot of people do work now that nobody gets to see ever.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's hard to find.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:People just want to work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:You know, and the idea of like nailing a series, it's rare now.
Guest:Especially this year, it's gotten so crazy.
Marc:What's going on with that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know, but it's like there's just not a lot of work.
Guest:And I feel we're super lucky.
Marc:I know.
Guest:Because there's so many people that just... That's why I keep being told.
Marc:Because my instinct is always like, I don't know if I want to do it.
Guest:No, but it's like, you know, every guest star who comes in is like, man, it's dead out there.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, and I had a friend who's working on a lot, and he was saying like 70% of the lot is just empty, like not shooting.
Guest:There's just, I think...
Marc:In L.A., certainly.
Guest:Yeah, the strikes and I think everything just slowed it down.
Marc:Well, I think what the strikes proved was that, you know, the industry can figure out how to work around producing things.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Oh, they want more money?
Marc:Fine.
Marc:We're just not going to give them any more work.
Guest:Yeah, it's not a retaliation.
Guest:It's just, yeah.
Marc:Because in Vancouver, there's like 100 things going on up there.
Marc:I didn't even know Melanie was up there.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:There's so much stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My driver said there's 60 productions going on.
Marc:I'm like, what the fuck?
Marc:In LA, there's nothing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's just empty, weird ghost town studios.
Marc:Yeah, it's weird.
Marc:Where'd you shoot the Matlock?
Marc:Paramount.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They just closed it, though, didn't they?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, I just was reading something about that.
Guest:You better check if you've got work to go back to.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know what that's about.
Guest:I mean, I know that they are still working.
Guest:I'm going back on Monday.
Marc:There's a soundstage for you to work on?
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:I thought they closed down something.
Guest:Something happened.
Guest:I mean, there was a big merger.
Marc:You didn't get the memo.
Marc:No, I didn't.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You've got to go to Vancouver.
Marc:That might work out for you.
Marc:We moved the production to Vancouver.
Marc:Yeah, that would be nice.
Marc:You can just move in with your wife.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:See her once in a while.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that was the other thing too.
Marc:Like when I was looking at your resume and then your old man's resume, he just said like the guest star thing was fucking huge.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:That's how everyone started.
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:He was like on the Waltons.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was, uh, yeah, he was the preacher on the Waltons and, uh,
Guest:Just move him around.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Oh, there he is on the cop show.
Guest:Mary Tyler Moore show.
Guest:Was he?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He had a Hawaii Five-0 thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With Jack Lord?
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:He was a hippie who has a drug dealer shootout or something.
Guest:He had a bit part on MASH where he held one of the guys hostage.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:Same with me.
Guest:I was in New York and Law and Order was the thing that was employing everybody.
Marc:What was your arc?
Marc:You grew up here?
Marc:I grew up here, yeah.
Marc:I didn't realize you kind of come from a show business family in a way.
Marc:Not just your dad, but your grandfather was some kind of country singer.
Guest:Singing cowboy, yeah, and America's Most Beloved Cowboy was like the... Is that his thing?
Guest:That was his thing, yeah.
Guest:But you didn't know that guy?
Guest:No, he died before I was born, but I, you know, it was kind of incredible to see... But did your dad have the records and stuff?
Guest:Oh, yeah, and we saw his movies, and, you know, like, you can...
Guest:Here, yeah.
Marc:And your grandmother, too?
Guest:And my grandmother, too, yeah.
Guest:They met on a movie called Rainbow Over the Range, where she was the librarian.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:She was an actor.
Marc:So they were in that studio system, like Hail Caesar.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, oh, exactly.
Guest:It's exactly like that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And they were just cranking out.
Guest:They were just going to the San Fernando Valley and just cranking out Westerns.
Guest:Is that crazy?
Guest:My dad would go up to his dad and say, oh, I saw, you know, Mystery of the Masked Bandit or whatever.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Tex would be like, which one was that?
Guest:Like, they just, he was just showing up and they were, like, if you look at the IMDb in, like, the late 30s.
Yeah.
Guest:You're like, how did you cram that many movies into one year?
Guest:Yeah, they're just churning them out.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And all we know are the ones that get, you know, critically acclaimed.
Marc:And there's like 200 other ones.
Guest:Oh my gosh, yeah, exactly.
Marc:And like, you know, Cranston comes from that too.
Marc:His dad was like, you know, these guys who kind of grow up in...
Marc:knowing that studio system, it's just these kind of utilitarian, like, actor is a job.
Marc:A hundred percent.
Marc:The job.
Marc:We're doing the job.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Andy's got a real working man kind of sensibility around it.
Guest:And it was only like, you know, the entire...
Guest:invention and industry was only like 20 years old or whatever you know so it wasn't like you know when he was born it was like that was probably when they were first doing movies so the idea that he had this dream your grandfather yeah yeah in East Texas and was like I'm gonna move to New York and see if I can you know he went to New York yeah
Guest:He went to New York, and that's where he got his nickname, Tex, because he was— He had a hat.
Guest:His hat and his accent.
Guest:But, yeah, he was, like, out in New York eating ketchup.
Guest:That was, like— Oh, that was the thing, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Making the soup with the ketchup.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, just, yeah, he was—he just had—he had a huge family, and he just—but he had this dream and went for it, and—
Marc:So your dad grew up on the studio a lot?
Guest:Yeah, kind of.
Guest:He was out here in Studio City, Toluca Lake he grew up in.
Marc:Wild.
Marc:And then so then you did too.
Marc:And then, yeah, and then I did too.
Marc:You grew up just around the TV studios.
Guest:Yeah, kind of.
Guest:Are you the oldest?
Guest:I'm the oldest, yeah.
Marc:And you got what, two brothers?
Guest:I got three brothers and a sister.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My older, I mean, I'm the oldest, and then my sister and my brother with my mom and my other brother from Amy.
Marc:Your half-brother.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wild.
Marc:I met Amy recently.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:At a... I think it was at Sarah Silverman's party.
Marc:Yeah, they're close.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:She's a character.
Marc:She's fun.
Guest:She is fun.
Guest:Yeah, she's very funny.
Marc:So when do you decide, like, I mean, like, you know, growing up around it like that... And he was a big star, right?
Marc:I mean, like... I mean, it was... Yeah, I mean, he... A totally recognizable person.
Marc:That's when they had, like, all the, you know, the TV shows that had all the stars hanging around.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:All that stuff.
Guest:It was a different era.
Guest:Yeah, he... He...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He, I mean, he would get, he would get recognized all the time and, and, uh, you know, and it was funny too, because he had this weird habit of like, if we were in a public place, he would always just be kind of walking faster than like, it would be like him, maybe same pace, but him maybe like fast.
Guest:10 feet or so ahead of us, and that's all kind of falling.
Guest:And so you would see this, like, wake of people kind of, like, turning and recognizing him, and he just was... That was part of the thing.
Guest:He just wanted to, like, keep moving, and... But it was fun.
Guest:I mean, he always...
Guest:He always was trying to entertain us as much as possible throughout all of those things.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:So anytime, you know, sometimes people would be a little mean or things like that.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Or slightly insensitive or things like that.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He just was, you know, he didn't really have much of an ego about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so they, you know, it's just that there's that fine line between, hey!
Marc:Hey!
Marc:Hey, John Ritter.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And if you just say, yeah, thank you, and you start to move on, like, what the fuck?
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It's like, dude, what do I owe you?
Guest:Yeah, that's the complicated element.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or, you know, they'd be like.
Guest:I thought you'd be a good guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or like, I remember this one lady took his glasses off his face and went, I knew it was you.
Guest:And he's like, oh, can I have my glasses?
Marc:Just no boundaries.
Guest:Yeah, you've gained some weight and things like that.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Are you still acting?
Guest:And he would go, no, I have a potato farm up in... He just would make stuff up.
Guest:Oh, he did?
Guest:Yeah, because there was no part of him... He was very humble.
Guest:There was no part of him that was like, let me prove to this stranger that I've... He never stopped.
Guest:work he always was sure but they only know him from the one thing yeah exactly so he's not gonna be like actually yes i'm working on this he was just like no yeah i retired so we basically we raised lambs yeah um and then we uh we slaughter them as soon as they become sheep but um you know it was you just make up all these weird things and uh did it have like do you remember having uh an impact on him when the show stopped
Guest:No, I mean, I... You're too young?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, to me, it seemed like he was always doing something.
Guest:Oh, yeah, because, yeah, he was.
Guest:After Three's Company, there was, I mean, Three's the Crowd didn't go long, but then he was doing Hooperman.
Guest:Oh, yeah, Hooperman.
Guest:And then movies and just, he loved working.
Guest:He was like a workaholic and just loved that so much.
Guest:When do you decide that, like, this is the thing?
Guest:I kind of, I mean, I like doing it in elementary school, and I initially was like, I think, yeah, I think I want to do this.
Marc:Where'd you go to the school?
Guest:I went to Crossroads in Santa Monica.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:It was really very lucky.
Marc:I've only talked to a few people, and I've read about Crossroads.
Marc:You know, it's not controversial, but it's a very specific thing, isn't it?
Guest:It is a very specific thing.
Marc:Like, there's a lot of kids of industry people there, and it's kind of... For sure.
Marc:And it's kind of like a very loose curriculum.
Guest:I mean, it... Does it still exist?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It still exists.
Guest:And, you know, I think initially it... I think it's...
Guest:It gets a certain reputation.
Guest:There are certain things about it.
Marc:Like, what is it exactly?
Marc:Like, it's for, you know, privileged offspring of actors?
Marc:Yeah, that's for sure part of the thing.
Marc:Who was in your class?
Guest:Oh, boy.
Marc:Whose kids?
Marc:Were there people?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:There are lots of, I mean, oh, gosh.
Guest:It's funny.
Marc:Are you sworn to secrecy?
Guest:Yeah, we're not allowed to talk about it.
Guest:No, but it was funny because you'd see a movie on the weekend and you'd say like, oh man, that was awful.
Guest:And they'd be like, oh, my dad wrote that.
Guest:And you'd be like, oh shit, sorry.
Guest:The writing actually was great, but it just was the rest of it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I remember saying that the writing was good.
Guest:Didn't we just say the writing was good?
Guest:That was one good thing about it.
Guest:They really took that script and ruined it.
Guest:But yeah, no, it was... But also, it's the kind of thing where it's like... You know, it's a private school, so it's an expensive school.
Guest:And then you have... And then this is like... It's sort of an industry town.
Guest:So it's like if you had...
Guest:You know, that's why it sort of ends up there.
Guest:And there are some freedoms about it and things like that.
Guest:But there are also like, I don't know, I really loved it.
Guest:A lot of the things that it gets made fun of for, I greatly enjoyed.
Guest:You know, there's a class where we like passed around a stick and we talked about our feelings and stuff like that.
Guest:And that gets made fun of a lot.
Guest:But then it also forced like 14 and 15 year olds to be like, here's, I guess this is what's going on inside my heart and everything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what were you learning about yourself then?
Guest:I think it was just learning how to, like, forcing you to talk about, forcing you to articulate what you were thinking about and feeling.
Marc:What was the hardest part about having a dad as a major celebrity?
Yeah.
Guest:I think it was probably figuring out my own identity.
Guest:I think there was always a lot of...
Marc:Oh, he's John Ritter's kid.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And then that's sort of who I was.
Guest:And so there would be times if I was at camp or at a new school where I never would tell anybody, but there would be a time where someone would put it together, and I would never lie about it.
Guest:So if someone asked me, I would say, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then I would notice that some people would be much nicer to me after they found out, and I would always feel like, oh...
Guest:It's got nothing to do with me.
Guest:Yeah, it's got nothing to do with me.
Guest:And so that was sort of a strange thing to navigate in terms of like, are you liking me?
Marc:It was just a strange thing to... Yeah, it's almost like there's no way to determine whether or not you have a self in the world.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And the self kind of disappears as soon as people learn this one fact about you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you're like, oh, okay, so you were not so nice to me, which is fine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But now all of a sudden, it always just made the friends that I knew were my real friends feel like that much more authentic and lovely.
Guest:Because we had created a thing just on ourselves.
Guest:And then I found out, oh, cool.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know who that is or whatever it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, but it's interesting because there is this two sides to this parasocial dynamic, right?
Marc:With in the terms of like people know they have a relationship with your dad.
Marc:That's not real.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's based on this character and familiarity and also celebrity.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But they feel like they, you know, they and so you just represent some extension of him.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And they're just sort of like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm just talking because your dad's that guy.
Marc:And then you're just lost in it.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And then it also, and then it became also a bit complicated in the, like, during the divorce times where I had, was having complicated feelings and people were like, I love your dad.
Guest:I was like, yeah, I, I know he's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I'm, I, I, I, I, I, it felt scary to even say like, I'm a little hurt, you know, like I, I was like, I'm not, that's, I'm not so good with him right now, but I get, I'm happy you like him.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I always loved him.
Guest:He was always so sweet.
Guest:But it's just that he had created so much goodwill towards him and love towards him that some of my, like, hurt feelings, I was like, these have to be, like, mine privately.
Guest:Because I also didn't want to, like, ruin, you know, anybody.
Guest:Or, like, taint.
Guest:Idea of him.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I enjoyed and appreciated, you know, all of that stuff.
Marc:People's love for him.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:But your private life and your relationship with what was going on, you know, wasn't public.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And I think that, well, now that was also a different time, man, like, because now everyone knows everything about everybody.
Marc:And there's like, you know, a hundred stories, you know, like there's just people on the edge of their seats wondering about, you know, Ben and Jennifer and like, well, yeah, there's no way everyone's speculating.
Marc:There's so much bullshit out there, but at least at the time you were growing up, it was still able to be relatively private.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, in that time, it feels like, I don't know, in, in, in that world,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If there was some, like, scandal or something, it'd be like, there's a National Enquirer article coming out.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So just wait for a month.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then, like, there's no chat rooms.
Guest:It doesn't keep the conversation going.
Marc:Maybe Entertainment Tonight, like, when they started doing that show.
Marc:One story.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then, like, it's kind of they all move on to the next.
Marc:Now it's like a month's news, month's worth of news.
Guest:And everybody weighing in and detectives and all this stuff.
Marc:So when you're growing up, like, are there...
Marc:Like, cause I always wonder, like, did you, like, did you know Don Knotts?
Guest:I met Don Knotts, uh, and I loved Don Knotts.
Guest:Um, but I didn't, I, yeah, I didn't really like by the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:By the time I was sort of a little sentient person, I hadn't seen him.
Guest:Did your dad hang out with actors?
Guest:uh yeah yeah he yeah sometimes uh i mean you know who he was working with or um but his his closest friends the ones that i saw the most were like uh one of his friends from high school and the rest from college like they just were always right well that's sort of like you're talking about like you know you build the real relationships and they're the ones that kind of stay around
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it's funny, too, because there are so many things.
Guest:I'll go back and I'll find some article about, like, you know, when my dad was first starting out and reading him answering these questions about his dad and all of these things.
Marc:Oh, right.
Guest:There's all these weird sort of— When he was a kid?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or when he was, like, in the Waltons or whatever.
Marc:Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Right, like People magazine kind of stuff?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And sort of remembering that he also existed within a context of—
Marc:The shadow of a famous father.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's funny, too, because there was a woman that came up to me a couple years ago and was like...
Guest:you were at a restaurant in 1982 and you were a nightmare.
Guest:I was like, Oh my.
Guest:And that's the weird kind of context of like, you would never remember.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You would never remember my bad behavior as a two.
Guest:If I was just a, like a screaming running around two year old in a restaurant, you wouldn't remember.
Guest:But the fact that because it was my dad, you've carry around for 40 years that he had a bad son.
Marc:Yeah, an obnoxious infant.
Guest:An obnoxious infant.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And that's you.
Guest:And that's me.
Guest:And I brought shame on my dad, and she must have thought he was a terrible father.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:She didn't say any of that stuff.
Guest:But that kind of thing where people will remember things, there's always this sense that if I really messed up, I could bring shame onto the...
Guest:onto the family name onto your, your, your nice dad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in my grandpa and just, just sort of tank the whole.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This third generation of Ritter really fucking sunk the family name.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:This kid, he had it all going for him.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:But he had to act like a regular kid and ruin it.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:So you were aware of that possibility of shame?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Especially as a teenager or something like that.
Marc:So that's wild because it's a different thing.
Marc:If your dad was...
Marc:Like, I think it has to do with movie actors or if it's TV actors, is that you had a whole generation or two of people that, you know, had a weekly relationship with this guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So they just, they knew him like he was a part of their family.
Guest:Well, and also he had created in the TV world and in the real world so much goodwill and being so kind to people.
Guest:And I still get stories of like, he did this nice thing for me.
Guest:He didn't know me, but I was at a Starbucks and he
Guest:He, I don't know, did something nice.
Marc:So you got to be careful, even if you're mad at your dad over something that happened that day, who you're talking about.
Marc:Like, you can't be like, that fucking asshole, he took my thing away.
Guest:That's ungrateful.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because then somehow or another it would trickle into... Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Marc:How's Crossroads?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I mean, you know, I definitely, I'm not complaining about any of it.
Guest:But it was interesting.
Guest:Did you ever talk to him about it?
Guest:Yeah, I talked to him a lot about it.
Guest:And he had a very, I think because...
Guest:he watched his dad go through all of this.
Guest:He was able to sort of avoid a lot of the kind of the pitfalls of, I think that was what kept him sort of humble and just sort of like, or, you know, he would always say like, we're, we're so lucky, you know, there, um, and just this sense of, as opposed to some people who have a certain level of success and they're like, it's because I'm the best.
Guest:Even though I think he was so brilliant.
Guest:Well, that's pretty undeniable, yeah.
Guest:But there was this understanding in the sense of there are incredibly talented, amazing people who just don't catch the wave.
Guest:Yeah, just don't get the break.
Guest:So he was very much like...
Marc:Well, you know, I talk to people about that a lot, you know, and certainly because there's been kind of this framing of nepotism, nepo-babies and all that.
Marc:But I still, you know, there's some part of it that seems disingenuous to me in terms of the critique of it because, like, look, man, if you grow up in the world, how are you not going to think that, like, I want to get a job –
Guest:in this world yeah i mean i think i think that that conversation has been so interesting and uh and and i i see a lot of people who have benefited from nepotism really pushing back because i think one of the things that that that scares them about the whole conversation is like this idea that their their accomplishments or their talent is being taken away from them or something right they're not talented it's all you know you got to be able to do the job after
Guest:a certain point yeah it's like it's not like there's that much goodwill in show business that like you know this kid sucks let him keep ruining project after project he's ritter's kid what we can do give him the you know supporting role we'll see what happens we loved his dad but but i think by by being so scared of having that taken away from him they're they're they're not acknowledging the privilege right they're they're like they're
Guest:That part of like, oh, sure, it got me in the door, but I couldn't.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But they're skipping over that part, which is like, that is a big thing.
Guest:There are so many people who like, you know, that's the hardest part is that first part.
Guest:And so, yes, you don't get to like, you know, continue to ruin projects.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And, you know, and there are a lot of children who have a really tough time, you know, like...
Guest:breaking into the same business or they get a chance and then that's it.
Guest:But, um, but I, I, I feel like there was a lot of, when I was reading some of the responses, there was a lot of like, well, no, I'm, you know, I mean, I, I think it's, it's a, it's a thing that a lot of people want.
Guest:They, everyone wants to feel like they worked hard and they earned what they have
Marc:But also it's it's like it's like a very small percentage of people, you know, and a lot in the ones that don't get flack or ones who end up behind the cameras or in production roles or whatever.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's just that's just business.
Marc:Well, it's just like it's show business.
Marc:So your dad's a producer and, you know, you're going to go work in the office and it's like, yeah, I'm going to do this.
Guest:Well, it is funny how it seems to be focused on this industry where it feels like I would be more concerned about it in politics or banking or doctors.
Guest:I mean, it doesn't happen.
Marc:I mean, like RFK Jr.
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:What a train wreck of a Kennedy that is.
Marc:Oh, my gosh.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:People just assume, like, he's a Kennedy.
Marc:They don't go like, this fucking Nepo baby.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:It's a strange thing that's focused on sort of this entertainment industry.
Marc:Yeah, because it kind of plays into the Hollywood entitlement battle thing.
Guest:For sure, for sure.
Guest:And there is a lot of entitlements.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:And then there's the other side of it, which is like it's not fair.
Guest:And that's the thing that I think the people who have benefited are too scared to admit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It is like a little bit not fair.
Guest:And I remember having like these conversations with my dad because –
Guest:I was very aware of that.
Guest:And that idea, even before that whole thing was a term, the idea of getting a part and everybody knowing, especially when I wasn't so confident in my own abilities at the start, getting a part and everyone on the set going, well, we know how we got that.
Guest:And then if I was terrible on top of that.
Guest:So when I was first starting out, I was really determined to either...
Guest:like succeed or fail on my own terms and not accept any anything and then even though there's even if you do that there still is an element of um you know help that it gets like even just going into an audition and people being like oh he was so nice yeah yeah that helps me a little bit yeah of course even helps me not be as nervous but um
Guest:But I remember like my dad was like, yeah, OK, absolutely.
Guest:And then when you wanted to act.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when I, you know, but I got like a law and order or something.
Guest:He's like, OK, great.
Guest:You want to be in this movie with me?
Guest:And I was like, no, still, no, not not yet.
Guest:And like, I mean, I didn't realize that there was a limited amount of of.
Guest:time to do that.
Guest:But it still was such an embarrassing thing to me to think of being somewhere that I hadn't at least... Earned?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And just being that guy.
Guest:I watched all the 80s movies.
Guest:I saw all the rich kid camps.
Guest:And you're like, oh, these are the bad guys.
Guest:So I really tried to kind of avoid that as much as possible.
Guest:Also, people get...
Guest:Cast in things that they're just not ready for.
Guest:And then they embarrass themselves and then that's the end of their career because they haven't.
Marc:They took the shot.
Marc:They took the shot.
Marc:They felt like they had to.
Marc:I was fortunate that I was never really afforded the shot.
Marc:I just had to scrape and be persistent and figure out a way around that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And get good enough to forge your own.
Marc:I'm still not really that confident about it.
Marc:But there was not that I did it the old fashioned way by just complete persistence and anger.
Marc:Yes, exactly.
Marc:And then somehow making a life out of my garage.
Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That's pretty incredible.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, believe me, I thought it was over.
Marc:But the layers of insecurity.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:That you're dealing with, you know, first being protective of your dad's reputation just in life.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And having to kind of suck all that up.
Marc:And then, you know, not knowing who you were because you were always identified as, you know, Ritter's kid.
Marc:And then deciding.
Marc:That's always a big decision.
Marc:The one that stands out in my mind more than other things for some reason is like, you know, Jacob Dillon.
Marc:See, a lot of things you can do, dude.
Marc:You're going to pick up guitar?
Marc:I know.
Marc:I mean, it's like, oh my God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he's great.
Marc:He is great.
Marc:He's totally great.
Marc:And he's an intense guy, and he's a good guy, and I like his music, but I mean, just...
Marc:The idea of like, you know, I'm just going to step into that shadow.
Guest:Inviting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All the comparisons.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember the first time I did.
Guest:I mean, the only time I did a sitcom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I felt like I had somewhat sidestepped some of the direct comparisons and early stuff.
Guest:I ended up thinking comedy auditions.
Guest:I was so nervous that I was just literally shaking that I didn't get a lot of those parts initially.
Guest:So I ended up getting the more serious stuff.
Guest:But then when I did a sitcom, it was like all my insecurities just piled on.
Guest:And it was actually only a couple years after he had passed.
Guest:And I remember...
Guest:What show was that?
Guest:It was called The Class, and there was a lot of incredible actors on it and people who have gone on to do so many amazing things.
Marc:How long did that run?
Guest:One season.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Or not even one season.
Guest:19 episodes, I think.
Marc:That's also the benefit of some of these things.
Guest:It's like, yeah, I never saw that.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, we watch it and we take it apart.
Guest:What went wrong?
Guest:But I remember like in the first like press tour or whatever.
Marc:Junk it.
Guest:The questions were so intense.
Marc:In relation to your dad?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think it was also because I still was sort of coping with, you know, the loss and things like that.
Guest:And then, you know, ping ponging back and forth between like, are you having fun on set?
Guest:And do you miss your dad?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes, I do.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
Guest:What's the, what do you, and so in that first like press tour, I, there was like an open bar situation and I kept on getting, you know, getting more and more and more and I,
Guest:And then, like, the next day when I woke up, the next, like, week I was, like, Googling, like, my name drunk.
Guest:What did you say?
Guest:Yeah, like, what, you know, embarrassment.
Guest:I never saw anything, so, but it was, you know.
Guest:You handled it.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, it only took me 10 more years to stop drinking.
Guest:Was that your thing?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think, like, there was a lot of my...
Guest:I was kind of tight in certain ways.
Guest:I felt like I had to sort of behave or do this thing, and so alcohol was my way to get out of my insecurities, and then I took it too far.
Marc:Well, the insecurities, though, what's interesting is the evolution of the –
Marc:the layers of insecurity because, you know, you spend your life in the shadow of your dad and being sort of an appendage publicly.
Marc:And then, you know, you got to keep all that shit to yourself.
Marc:And then, you know, just by virtue of that, you don't really get to develop a sense of self.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, now you're taking these opportunities and now you're comparing yourself to other actors who have a harder time of it and your own talent and wondering if that's real.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:A hundred percent.
Marc:Are you taking parts that play to your insecurities?
Guest:I mean, I think like, I think, you know, the hardest thing for like the hardest auditions for me were the sort of confident, you know, like leading guy, you know, like I was like, I don't quite know how to do this, but you give me like a guy who's insecure, who's looking at other men or peers, you know, guys for like how to be a man or how to be a person.
Guest:Like, absolutely.
Guest:I will like the best friend.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Well, that's interesting, though, because that's not a bad approach.
Marc:Because if you have the fundamental talent to be present to act, to have a wheelhouse isn't bad.
Marc:But when it's indicative of your bigger problems in terms of being a person, it seems like it could exacerbate the situation.
Guest:I mean, 100%.
Guest:Every once in a while, I would fool someone in an audition into thinking that I was a confident guy and get the part and then just the whole movie or whatever.
Guest:I'd be like, how did I do this?
Guest:Why did I do this?
Guest:This is not how...
Marc:But were you able to step up, though, and do the acting?
Guest:I hope so.
Guest:I mean, I gave it my best, and I tried.
Marc:When did you... What was that role?
Guest:That role was... The first time I remember that happened was this movie called The Education of Charlie Banks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's... Basically, I play this, like...
Guest:It's going to sound silly when I say it, but I basically play like a New York tough, like a very violent guy who hates rich people and will beat them up to level the playing field.
Guest:And there was a lot that I understood about that.
Guest:You had anger.
Guest:I had a lot of anger.
Guest:I also have a lot of over-the-top feelings about entitlement and rich people.
Guest:There's a certain thing that does drive me crazy.
Guest:So there's a lot about that character that I understood.
Marc:And then there's also the self-hatred component.
Guest:And the self-hatred component, yeah.
Guest:There's a huge part of that.
Guest:And the only thing was violence is my last resort to solve a problem.
Guest:But I've also met a couple guys who's number three.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I had to sort of figure that stuff out.
Marc:But that's like a good acting exercise.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:I had a really great time and I met a lot of amazing actors.
Guest:And I am proud of that movie.
Guest:But it's bizarre.
Guest:I feel like sometimes I see it or I'll see like a clip and I'll be like, I can't really remember what I was doing.
Marc:It's interesting when you have to.
Marc:You know, and I don't like, you know, you've done a lot of stuff.
Marc:And like, there's some times where I'm cast...
Marc:in the few things that I've been in where I don't understand why they cast me, you know, where, where it's, it's sort of like, there's like a million character, you know, get a guy that's like this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and I'll talk, I'll try to talk my way out of doing it.
Guest:I, yeah, I've done that.
Marc:You know, where it's like, I don't know.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, if they're good at making the choice, whether it's casting director, the director of like convincing you that they want you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Agents, you can't rely on for that.
Marc:But, but if you, yeah, but if they're like, we,
Marc:You got to get the job.
Marc:But if the director kind of sits you down and goes, no, it's essentially the shame that we're looking for.
Marc:I'm like, oh, oh, so you do know me.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah, that I really love is when...
Guest:when you they get you yeah and they they're they're they're saying no you're you don't have to put on a thing right we are we know what you can do and this is what there's an element of your personality or what you bring to a part that we want for this yeah and then you're like okay i believe you yeah i'll do it yeah
Guest:That sort of happened in this movie that I'm also really proud of called The Tale, which is a super dark but beautiful movie.
Marc:What was the story on that one?
Guest:The story, it's a true story of the... So that's pretty recently.
Guest:Yeah, pretty recently.
Guest:Jennifer Fox wrote and directed it, and she was a documentary filmmaker, but this is her first narrative film, and it was essentially about the...
Guest:adult man who groomed her when she was a child and her kind of realizing going through that thing of of realizing oh this wasn't like my first boyfriend right and i wasn't just mature for my age uh i was a child yeah and this is he was a sick person yeah but
Guest:The fact that she realized it, you know, in her 40s, I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Part of the grooming was that he, I guess they wanted someone who felt like warm and kind and loving and that it was a very, you know, even though there was all sorts of manipulation and sickness going on, that in the moment to this little girl, it could feel like...
Guest:oh, we were in a relationship and the world wouldn't understand.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So that was really scary.
Marc:A dark part.
Guest:That was super dark.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you felt like you got in there?
Guest:To a certain extent.
Guest:There was a lot of, you know, I was really mainly concerned.
Guest:Everyone was really mainly concerned about, like, how we were going to do this and shoot it and not...
Guest:I basically spent most of my thoughts and time trying to sort of protect this little actress who was playing Jennifer when she was a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I just tried to like make jokes and I was like a, you know, like a basically goofy uncle energy.
Marc:Off when you're not shooting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So she felt comfortable and she didn't feel like, you know, and, and none of the weird, there was body doubles for all of the very creepy stuff.
Guest:I didn't have to say anything weird to her or anything like that.
Guest:Um, we like cut it all up.
Guest:Um, but, uh,
Marc:But you took a chance on the part.
Guest:Yeah, and it only really hit me one time where we were just sort of running lines with her.
Guest:I was, you know, her and her mom.
Guest:We were just doing the scene, and she just was sitting there, and she was like, you know, 11 or something like that.
Yeah.
Guest:All of a sudden, she was a little cold, and so she was just... And all of a sudden, I just saw how small she was, and the reality of the whole situation crashed down on me.
Guest:I had to go into the other room and just sort of cry for a little bit.
Guest:But for the most part, I was able to just kind of trust...
Guest:the director and the other actors.
Marc:And also, I guess, to sort of play it without that awareness.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Just to be like, as long as she's having fun and she feels safe, and it ends up, when it's all cut together, it ends up being what it's supposed to be, which is this sort of awful thing where, of course, a child wouldn't recognize that what's going on is...
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I guess that character probably didn't either, really.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, yeah, he created his own worldview that this was normal and, you know, like, well, another country, whatever, all that stuff.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But I also felt like it was important because I feel like there's so many, you know, I mean...
Guest:people who do that to children are monsters but there's not a lot of understanding of like the manipulation and the confusion yeah yeah and so it felt it felt like i wanted to show that you know i want to be part of showing how was that received it was received pretty well i mean and people really felt like uh seen by it i think there were a lot of people that came up afterwards um and then like uh uh
Guest:Maybe a year ago, there was a moment where people were circulating the worst clip on Twitter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And obviously people who hadn't seen the movie and were just going, they're trying to normalize, you know, pedophilia, Hollywood, all this stuff.
Guest:And I was like, oh, my gosh.
Guest:This is my absolute nightmare.
Guest:And it's also, yeah, like I said, it's the worst scene in the movie, the one that would just make me like, I'd have to like, I'd scrunch down in my seat and just sweat and just wait for it to be done.
Marc:How long did that go on for?
Guest:It went on for a couple weeks.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And there was a time where it was frustrating because I wanted to be like.
Guest:See the whole movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also like, what creep fast forwarded to this scene?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because that's the only way you wouldn't, you wouldn't.
Guest:like know what the totally out of context yeah yeah so somebody whoever pulled that out was fast forwarding to the creepy scenes of that movie which is even creepier than anything yeah well that's a lot to deal with yeah but that was it was just weird to be like you know have all these people again like your father would be turning in your grave like
Guest:Yeah, if I was trying to normalize pedophilia, yes, my father would be upset with me.
Marc:But absolutely not.
Marc:This is a story about a woman who's trying to shed light on the subtle horror of the process.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And it was such a beautiful and subtle script that walked a tightrope really well.
Marc:I'm sorry to go through that.
Guest:Yeah, it was weird to just see this misguided hatred.
Marc:Yeah, oh yeah.
Marc:Well, it was intentional guided hatred.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:That's true.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Misguided guided.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, like, do you feel that so that was just 2018.
Marc:So and you've done like so much stuff.
Marc:So you feel like, you know, you're kind of it's good to feel like you're still evolving as an actor and also, you know, taking those chances.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:And when you were drinking, when did that start?
Guest:That started when I was in high school.
Guest:I mean, that was like, you know, my friends and I were the little, like, long-haired, you know, kind of crazy guys.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Partiers.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, not really out in the world, but, like, in our little bubble, you know, like four of us.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Getting in the liquor cabinet and stuff like that.
Marc:And it just kind of never went away?
Guest:And it never, I mean, like, I think I threw up
Guest:or got really sick maybe like my second time like there were a lot of like warning yeah I was a puker too oh gosh so many it's just so many parties ended with me in the bathroom again yeah and I like I just I always thought it was because like I didn't really like beer and it was too filling so I drink hard liquor and I get and I'd be fucked
Guest:Yeah, I tried so many different times.
Guest:The reason it happened for the 90th time was because I did it out of order or whatever it was.
Guest:I made so many excuses, but I'm coming up on 11 years with no alcohol.
Marc:Wow, that's great, man.
Marc:Yeah, thanks.
Marc:It's a big deal.
Guest:It is a big deal.
Guest:After a couple years of not drinking, I realized that there were certain elements of myself that I just believed to be absolutely true flaws that will never get fixed or something or a certain level of out of control that just cutting out alcohol and also doing some work on myself and stuff, I was like, oh, maybe that's not...
Guest:Right.
Marc:Maybe, maybe that was, you could see it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, or there was a seed of that there that is exacerbated by alcohol.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But without the alcohol, it stays a little seed or something like I can control it or I'm not, you know, I'm not just like, uh, floating along the tide of the world.
Marc:Did you do a recovery guy?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So like you were able to do the work and sort out, you know, through the steps, like the character defects and your side of things.
Marc:Yes, exactly.
Marc:And then you get that brilliant kind of profile of, you know, which of those character defects are driving you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you have sort of a map to do the other work, you know, in therapy or whatever.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And kind of like put it together, like where it came from.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Which is just so fascinating because it's like you're sort of like your own little puzzle or like escape room where you're like, oh, that's the code that I needed for this lock.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's the amazing thing.
Marc:And I talk about it publicly.
Marc:And if it bothers you, you can tell me because I know you're supposed to be anonymous.
Marc:But, you know, we're helping people here.
Marc:Yeah, but like that fourth step, man.
Marc:I mean, if you do that thoroughly, it's sort of like, no, that's who I am.
Marc:These are the things, the character defects that drive me.
Marc:And a lot of times it's not being an asshole.
Marc:It's the opposite where you just suck it up or take the hit.
Guest:Well, there was a lot of... Self-centered fear.
Guest:Yes, there was a lot of that for me.
Guest:And there was a lot of... Yeah, a lot of...
Guest:just sort of confusing and conflicting thoughts.
Guest:And, you know, I think I made a lot of decisions about who I wanted to be as a man when I was like 10 or 11.
Guest:And like, you know, watching my parents' marriage fall apart, I was like, well, here's what I'm never going to do.
Guest:Here are the kinds of things.
Guest:And just making all these decisions before I had an understanding of who I was.
Guest:But then I was living this...
Guest:And having these other things come into my brain and be like, I just ignore all that.
Guest:And then the alcohol would kind of like explore, you know, those types of things.
Guest:And so it just was, you know, it was a lot of I don't know, I had to kind of.
Guest:When you've created your persona and there's an element of, like, protecting it from the outside world and protecting your family or all these things, and you're trying to ignore all the— You've instinctually done it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's not like you don't make choices about that persona.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:It's done to protect you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, if I show a break in the armor, it can be exploited in ways that I didn't want to, like, just—
Guest:Circle the wagons.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then the only way out becomes like, you know, when you drink, you're sort of like, you're not that self-conscious.
Guest:That was exactly it.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You get a relief from yourself.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But then, if I then did something that made me feel like shameful, it would just be, you know, the next day I would just go into like a spiral.
Marc:Yeah, it's like, yeah, you can't win because...
Marc:you know, you're instinctively, you know, getting relief from it through the booze, and then that makes you act a certain way, and then you get to wake up and beat the shit out of yourself more than you usually do.
Guest:Exactly, exactly.
Marc:Just without the booze, you're already operating at a level of shame and self-abuse.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And then when you, like, your persona that's built on alcohol is out in the world, and then the next day you're like, oh...
Guest:fucking double asshole like and it's almost like you're being dragged yeah yeah by this other thing which is the booze absolutely and it's like you know and for a while it felt like a like you know almost like jekyll and hyde or something like sure but then you're like no that's that's that's like both me yeah and so you like the you have to kind of like
Guest:I think now I have, instead of just ignoring all the bad stuff or putting it aside or sweeping it under the rug, I'm like, it exists with me.
Guest:I carry a low-level amount of shame just all the time.
Marc:It's a hard one to kick if you're brought up a certain way, if you're wired for it.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:But you can integrate the other things and kind of make choices.
Marc:That's the real benefit of sobriety is that you realize you can make different choices.
Guest:That's the biggest part.
Guest:And that was the thing that was the scariest for me is there were so many times where I felt like I'm not making these choices.
Guest:I'm not in control.
Guest:So, you know, and I think like after my relationship with Mariana, I felt like, you know, when I was 19 and I met her, I was like, you know, here's my...
Guest:thing from my childhood you're my person one person for my whole life yeah it's it's you and me you know like we'll just work through everything i'm not gonna like cut and run or whatever right and then you know like trying to hold on to all of that and uh i think still drinking
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And even after we ended, I think there was an element with the alcohol and the fact that, like, 11 years later, I was like, I can't make good on any of those promises anymore.
Guest:We're separating.
Marc:Were there that long?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And so it was like... But you had to do it to save your sanity and life somehow.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I think I had a lot of growing to do, but...
Guest:uh, you know, when I was out in the world, you know, and even in the beginning of my relationship with Melanie, I was like, let me just tell you something about myself.
Guest:I can't promise anything beyond right now because I already have promised someone big things and I didn't make good on them.
Guest:So I am a flawed, you know, I can't, I will never be able to like
Guest:And when did your dad pass it during, like... My dad passed kind of early on.
Marc:With Mariana?
Guest:With Mariana, yeah.
Guest:Like, with, I guess, four years... Four years into our relationship.
Marc:And that was completely out of nowhere that that happened?
Guest:That was completely out of nowhere.
Guest:But one thing that I, like...
Guest:I'm just so grateful to Marianna about is that, you know, her father has or had, he passed, but he had Huntington's disease, which is this awful disease.
Guest:And so, you know, she...
Guest:really inspired me when I felt like I had all the time in the world.
Guest:She, she was like, talk to your dad about the stuff that's bothering you.
Guest:And I was like, and she's like, I wish I could talk to my dad about the stuff, you know, about my stuff.
Guest:I can't cause he's ill.
Guest:So yeah,
Guest:Um, so she kind of spurred me to like create a more honest relationship with my dad and like get brave and call him and be like, I want to, you know, talk about, I know we, it was complicated cause he was always so fun, but I had stuff that I wanted to talk to him about.
Guest:So he would come over and I would be like, today's the day that I'm going to like, and then we'd like laugh the whole time.
Guest:And even I'd be like, uh,
Guest:So I did that.
Guest:I had an amazing kind of conversation.
Marc:You got some honesty and closure about your feelings?
Guest:Yeah, and I was like, I don't want you to feel like you have to hide stuff.
Guest:I'm not mad anymore.
Guest:I just want to know who you are, and I want you to know who I am, and I want you to feel like you can tell me things.
Right.
Guest:And it really changed our relationship.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And then he passed like a year or two later.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So if I hadn't done it then, I wouldn't have had that chance.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just feel very grateful to her for that.
Marc:But you were able to sort of kind of go through the impact of who he was and the divorce and all that stuff and who you are with him.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that's great.
Guest:But I also think there was an element of like, you know, a lot of my intense sort of feelings about love and sex and marriage and all this stuff was like, I'm going to show my dad how, you know, you can do it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then when he was gone, it was like...
Guest:Who am I showing?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm like, what if I live for a very long time?
Guest:You know?
Guest:Because I also had some weird thought, like, maybe I'll die early.
Guest:For some reason, I had a weird thing about that.
Guest:And then when I didn't, I was like, oh, so I got to look at some of this stuff.
Guest:You got to learn how to live.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because, like, sometimes, you know, people who,
Thank you.
Guest:Past early, it's like you see the beauty of their life has become so apparent.
Guest:Because it's finite.
Guest:Yeah, because it's finite.
Guest:And so there was an element of like, if I just ignore all this stuff until I reach the finish line, people will go like, oh, like, wow, he really, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then all of a sudden it's like, okay.
Marc:I'm still alive.
Guest:I'm still alive and I better start looking at some of this shit.
Marc:Well, how long after he died did you stop drinking?
Guest:oh boy okay so did it exacerbate years oh wow yeah yeah so did it send you off on a spiral did it intensify uh it definitely did at first so i can't you know uh and i mean yeah i uh you know i mean
Guest:you know, as well as anybody like grief is such a wild.
Marc:It's fucking though.
Marc:It's like, it's, it's, it's mind blowing.
Guest:It's mind blowing.
Marc:And I, I mean, I couldn't imagine like the, the intensity of just losing a parent.
Marc:So, you know, quickly and, and at a very young age, I mean, he was in his fifties.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:54.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:It's, it's just absolutely insane.
Guest:And it was like, you know, I got a call, uh, uh,
Guest:like you know come to the hospital but you know we caught it or whatever and i was like oh yeah and i remember going to the hospital being like okay this is going to be like a new the beginning of a new chapter like yeah and then just no that's that's it like and and then like being like wait what was the last time i saw what was the last conversation we had oh it's like that first year or two it's like the worst yeah you can't even like
Guest:The absence of a rewind button becomes so apparent.
Guest:The time marching forward when all you want is just to go to yesterday.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Your brain can't even manage it for as long as it takes.
Marc:It's just sort of like, what?
Yeah.
Guest:And that like, you know, the weird bargaining part.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So it's such a human and beautiful and also sad thing where you're.
Guest:there's just no room.
Guest:Like there's so many things in life where you make a mistake or you can sort of barter or you can explain or you can talk or you can, you know, but the, just the finality of like, Oh no, there's nothing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's all in you now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's all one sided.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:There's no, you're just dealing with, uh, Oh my God.
Marc:And how did everybody like the family get pretty tight and, you know, come together a bit?
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:I mean, you know, uh, I think, uh,
Guest:I mean, the first night I saw my mom and my stepmom in the same room was at the hospital that night.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Your mom was an actress, too.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And she's amazing.
Marc:But I think... But they never...
Guest:No, yeah.
Guest:And now they just work together for months to help my uncle, my dad's brother, Tom, who has cerebral palsy and is such an amazing person.
Guest:uh guy but they both helped him like move they like work together to like oh yeah you know things that i could not have even imagined in my childhood and i was like wow you guys good job dude are the because i know amy has the foundation right yeah yeah amy has the foundation and your mom involved in that not really yeah uh i mean she she helps and she supports yeah it's definitely like amy's thing right wow man and now you did it you got sober you got a kid of your own yeah and it's going all right
Guest:It's it's going great.
Guest:I mean, I can't I you know, that was another thing I just sort of believed about myself.
Guest:I was like, there's no possible way that I could be responsible enough to be a father or whatever.
Marc:Because I remember when I talked to Melanie years ago, I think it was before you guys were maybe just at the beginning.
Marc:I don't think you guys were together when I first when I talked to her on the podcast.
Guest:We were together, but there was... Pretty new?
Guest:I can't remember if I was still drinking or if I was just newly sober.
Marc:Well, yeah, because I remember we talked about codependency.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:And there was... I think Melanie and I, if we hadn't met exactly when we met in our healing journeys of ourselves, I don't think...
Guest:we would have survived it because I don't think if she was a little healthier, I think, I don't think she would have put up with my bullshit.
Guest:And I think if, if I was, or I don't even know, I mean, I just feel so.
Marc:Well, you had the companion recovery thing.
Marc:Like you both had, you had the, the symbiotic issues that define, you know, alcoholic relationships.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And you were both, you know, hitting the recovery point at the same time.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So it became very immediate, but you were dedicated to recovery and you were able to find the language to do it.
Guest:Well, and I think for my recovery, the codependence initially actually was partly what saved me because I, at that point in my life where I met her and when we were starting our relationship, I didn't really realize it at the time.
Guest:Looking back, I was...
Guest:super depressed and really down on myself and just was like, I'm a nightmare.
Guest:Why would anybody want to be with me?
Guest:And so getting sober, I didn't really care about it because I was on a self-destructive kick.
Guest:And I wasn't worth, to me, I wasn't worth...
Guest:Like saving or something.
Marc:Well, that's that inverted self-centeredness that they talk about.
Marc:Like either you're the best thing in the world or you're the piece of shit at the center of the universe.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But both of them are just the two sides of self-centeredness.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Basically, when Melanie said, you can keep drinking, but I can't be with you if you're drinking.
Guest:She was worth giving that a shot, giving sobriety a shot.
Guest:I knew that she deserved that from me.
Guest:I didn't feel like I kind of... Right.
Marc:Oh, I see.
Marc:So initially, you weren't necessarily doing it for yourself.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was showing her, I do take this seriously.
Guest:I do think you're amazing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:probably I'll get sober and we'll work through all this stuff and you'll go, okay, well, you're still, you're not great.
Marc:So you're already trying to trick yourself into drinking still.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:There was a part of it that was like, if we break up, then I gave it a shot and then I can go back to my self-destructing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um, but, but it was, it was a really incredible thing.
Guest:And, you know, everyone was telling me at the beginning of my sobriety, you know, there's, everybody has different kind of rules of what works for them.
Guest:And,
Guest:And so one of the things is like, you've got to do it for yourself.
Guest:You can't do it for anybody else.
Guest:You can't have it be dependent.
Guest:And I was like, but for me right now, this person is worth doing it for.
Marc:I started the same way.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, totally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I, you know, I was married.
Marc:I was, you know, not happy.
Marc:I was...
Marc:you know, using fairly secretly because I'd already tried to get sober before.
Marc:I met a woman.
Marc:It was not the greatest of situations, but like I was so taken with her and she was sober.
Marc:So she got me sober.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:You know, like I kind of wanted to do it.
Marc:And, you know, but once it was sort of like, you know, this is how you're going to be with this person.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:You're going to get sober.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:So I was compelled because I was so in love with her to be sober.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:But I'm glad you survived because you're so untethered.
Marc:I was just horrendous because I didn't trust anybody.
Marc:I hated myself.
Marc:I was angry and emotionally abusive.
Marc:And I just wore her out.
Marc:That's why they tell you you don't have a relationship in the first year.
Marc:Well, that was the other thing.
Marc:But I was like, fuck that.
Guest:I know, yes, yes.
Marc:But, you know, I became a monster and that relationship ended and it took me a while to realize like it was completely the right thing for her to do.
Marc:But but out of all that, I did stay sober.
Marc:That's amazing.
Guest:But that is that's a hard transition, though, from like for somebody else to yourself, because in order to stay sober, you have to have some like at least one OK feeling about yourself or that you're worth not.
Marc:Well, then it becomes just the day count.
Marc:You're just sort of like, I did another day.
Marc:Like I was not going to let go of that.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:I mean, that was the hardest part for me is like, you know, when you're like a week or two weeks in, you're like, well, I can get, I can get back here in two weeks.
Marc:I mean, just, I'll just have a thing.
Guest:But you'd like now at this point where I'm almost at 11 years, like the idea of throwing that all away.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A lot of people don't talk about it.
Marc:I mean, I just had 25 years, so I don't think about it the same way because it's my life and I don't think about drinking.
Marc:But there is that thing.
Marc:It's sort of like, I'm not going to be one of those guys, man.
Marc:I put this fucking time together.
Marc:I'm not going to fight.
Marc:It was competitive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you see people go down.
Marc:For sure.
Guest:After like decades.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Well, yeah, I know.
Marc:I got to make sure I keep that in mind.
Marc:But the thing is, is like you – but you also realize that that component of the disease, which is awful, but there is this sort of – like I think at first you're not seeing like it's tragic.
Marc:You're just sort of like, I'm still winning.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He was ahead of me.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:if that's what keeps it going that's true I mean I you know it is crazy to me like because I remember just being the the guy with the fewest days in all the rooms just crazy and you're crazy and you're self-pitying oh yeah and you just can't shut up about yourself and I also I was one of those guys who was like you know everyone's like I am this I'm an alcoholic and I'd be like I'm Jason we'll see I don't know what I don't know if I am or not you're here for some reason exactly that guy I can't
Guest:I don't know if I'm an alcoholic, but I'm definitely not as bad as you.
Guest:You know, and like just doing all those kinds of things of like, all right, well, I never did that.
Guest:So I must not be so bad.
Marc:I think the codependency, your natural codependency probably like saved you.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:Because like you grew up with it, you know, constantly kind of like concerned about your behavior's impact on your old man.
Marc:And everybody, yeah.
Marc:Because there's a different type of, because I'm as codependent as I am alcoholic for sure.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And if you're just sort of like, fuck everything, then that's a different thing.
Marc:That is a different thing.
Marc:You know, but if you're selfish enough to think that you can change or manage other people, you know, I think that that component of it sometimes helps sobriety.
Yeah.
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:I think living for somebody else.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I mean, well, it's like, it's one of those things where I feel like I had so much more empathy for anybody else except for me.
Guest:Like I had such a high standard for myself that I was never reaching.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, but I could, I could at least try to show up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Show up or not actively do more damage.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:People that I cared about.
Marc:So when'd you have the kid, how sober were you?
Guest:Uh, let's see.
Guest:So I think I was about five or six years.
Guest:So that's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Five, five years sober.
Guest:Cause she's five now and I, or no six.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You did it.
Marc:I did it.
Marc:And you, and you work all the time and it's good.
Guest:It's, it's good.
Guest:I feel, I mean, it's, it's been amazing to, uh, you know, Melanie, uh,
Marc:really works all the time i i've been working pretty steadily but it's been incredible to see her just like actually not stop and have this like incredible yeah time and yeah she finally you know like really got her time her her day yeah yeah because for years everyone's like she's the best like she's so fucking good yeah and then it's just this thing happened where it's just the perfect showcase for what she does absolutely she's always been great she's always been great
Guest:It's exciting to see new people realize.
Guest:And then have fans of Yellow Jackets or whatever go back.
Guest:Oh, and see all of it?
Guest:Yeah, and be like, oh, she was this good when she was 15.
Guest:I know.
Marc:I know.
Guest:It's crazy.
Marc:Yeah, when I got to act with her, I was like, oh, my God, I'm so nervous.
Marc:I'm going to do it.
Guest:Yeah, she's amazing.
Guest:And just the loveliest person.
Marc:Well, I'm happy for you guys.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Well, maybe I'll get your number, because if you're going to go up there, maybe we can all hang out.
Marc:That would be awesome.
Marc:Because I'll be up there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Great talking to you, man.
Guest:Yeah, great talking to you, too.
Guest:That was so fun.
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:Great guy.
Marc:Pleasure talking to him.
Marc:Matlock premieres this Sunday on CBS.
Marc:Hang out for a minute, folks.
Marc:Okay, Full Marin listeners, if you're interested in what I find funny, we put up a bonus episode this week trying to get to the bottom of it.
Marc:It's called What Makes Mark Laugh.
Marc:When I was a kid, you know, I remember being just shit crazy over that first season of SNL.
Marc:I mean, I must have been 13.
Marc:My parents would let me stay up to watch it.
Marc:I would go to school the next day and do pratfalls like Chevy Chase.
Marc:You know, I was in.
Marc:I was in.
Marc:And then I remember watching Monty Python's Flying Circus and thinking it was from another planet.
Marc:But funny?
Marc:You liked it?
Marc:I think I thought it was weird.
Marc:But I didn't really understand what I was watching.
Marc:I was young because it was around the same time.
Marc:And that would show up on PBS.
Marc:And then when I was a kid and my brother and I would listen to comedy records, there was definitely...
Marc:like a rotation of listening to that class clown album by George Carlin, the Cheech and Chong records we used to do.
Marc:We used to act them out.
Marc:We used to, you know, I'd listen to, I remember the first time I saw Richard Pryor live in concert when I was in high school and it had just come out was at 78 or something.
Marc:And my buddy Dave and I went to see it at a midnight movie and I lost my shit.
Marc:So, you know, there was that.
Marc:And then there was also, you know, the Woody Allen stuff had a profound impact on me.
Marc:Mostly, I think the first Woody Allen movie I ever saw was that the one that he didn't write or the one that he didn't direct.
Marc:It was played against Sam.
Guest:Played against Sam?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's a bit in there that I'll never forget that to me was one of the funniest things and remains one of the funniest moments I can ever imagine where he's all excited about something.
Marc:I don't remember what.
Marc:And he's kind of skipping down the street.
Marc:And he pats some guy on the back who's sitting on this ledge over the water.
Marc:And the guy just falls.
Marc:And he keeps walking.
Marc:And he just keeps walking.
Marc:And I remember that stuff, man.
Marc:You can listen to that episode right now and get bonus episodes twice a week when you subscribe to the full Marin.
Marc:Go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+.
Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST.
Marc:So this is me with that looper I told you about.
Marc:I'm not good at the looping.
Marc:It's very basic.
Marc:And then I noodled on top of it.
Marc:But it's different for this part of the show.
Marc:I listened to it back twice, and I think I did all right.
Guest:guitar solo
Thank you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:.
.
.
.
.
Guest:Boomer lives.
Guest:Monkey and La Fonda.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere.