Episode 1574 - Eric Roberts

Episode 1574 • Released September 16, 2024 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:Alright, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck, buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fuck, Nicks?

00:00:14Marc:What's happening?

00:00:15Marc:How's it going?

00:00:16Marc:How are you?

00:00:16Marc:I'm back at home.

00:00:18Marc:I am back at home after months away.

00:00:22Marc:Though coming back in and out, kind of parachuting in to do the work and then getting out, but I really...

00:00:31Marc:I'll explain it to you.

00:00:33Marc:Not much to explain, but I might sound a little under the weather.

00:00:36Marc:Big tease.

00:00:39Marc:So Eric Roberts is on the show today.

00:00:41Marc:All right.

00:00:43Marc:Eric Roberts is singular.

00:00:44Marc:He's a singular guy.

00:00:46Marc:And there were a few movies that, you know, put him into your brain forever.

00:00:54Marc:Those being The Pope of Greenwich Village, Star 80, Runaway Train, and

00:00:59Marc:And maybe you're a Raggedy Man fan.

00:01:03Marc:But he is a guy that works.

00:01:08Marc:He's also in King of the Gypsies.

00:01:10Marc:With Sterling Hayden.

00:01:12Marc:And the book, he's got a book out.

00:01:15Marc:Okay, the book, it's called Runaway Train or The Story of My Life So Far.

00:01:19Marc:And this is Eric Roberts.

00:01:21Marc:And he's a force to be reckoned with.

00:01:24Marc:But those early movies, Star 80, that's a movie you'll never forget.

00:01:28Marc:Pope of Greenwich Village, totally different kind of movie.

00:01:30Marc:But again, a movie you won't forget.

00:01:32Marc:The Coca-Cola Kid, I remember that one too.

00:01:34Marc:Runaway Train, I just watched.

00:01:36Marc:for the first time, I think, in order to talk to Eric Roberts.

00:01:39Marc:And he's one of these guys that you know, but he's also one of those guys where you're like, what happened to that guy?

00:01:44Marc:Well, it's in the book.

00:01:46Marc:Things happened, but I don't think...

00:01:49Marc:You know, I think there's other reasons.

00:01:52Marc:The more I talk to him, it's interesting as, you know, somebody who's acting now.

00:01:57Marc:He's done a lot of movies.

00:01:59Marc:I mean, like, probably hundreds.

00:02:03Marc:And he's a guy that works.

00:02:05Marc:Like, if an actor wants to work and he's got a little juice or even some old juice, you know, he can work.

00:02:11Marc:And it's really all relative.

00:02:13Marc:He did, like...

00:02:15Marc:I think he did over 10 movies in a year, this guy, like in 2018.

00:02:19Marc:And it's only because, you know, a lot of times you're just going in there and you're doing three days, you're doing four days, you're doing five days, maybe a week, maybe two weeks, but you're in the movie.

00:02:30Marc:So if you line them up, I mean, you could do a lot of movies.

00:02:32Marc:I'm not saying they're all going to be good, but you know, if you want to work and you're an actor that can get work, it's out there and he works his ass off.

00:02:42Marc:But what's very interesting about Eric Roberts, though, is, like, I just never forget him in Star 80 and certainly Public Greenwich Village.

00:02:51Marc:And even after I watched Runaway Train, he's a really, you know, good-looking guy.

00:02:56Marc:And he's got, you know, this very specific charisma.

00:02:59Marc:But there's some part of you that thinks, like...

00:03:03Marc:Could he just been a leading man?

00:03:04Marc:But you watch some of these movies.

00:03:06Marc:Why wasn't he just, you know, like one of those kind of handsome leading mans?

00:03:10Marc:Because he's got an edge to a man.

00:03:13Marc:He's got a very specific energy and it's a little intense.

00:03:18Marc:You know, it's not warm and fuzzy, but it's what was interesting about watching some of those movies, certainly Pope of Greenwich Village.

00:03:24Marc:and runaway train is that it's about guys.

00:03:27Marc:It's about guy marriages almost like him and Mickey Rourke.

00:03:31Marc:They're not really married.

00:03:32Marc:And then him and John Voight and runaway train where it's this emotional dynamic that is, is very specific, but he's so specific.

00:03:41Marc:He's on a, what's that thing called?

00:03:43Marc:The, the amazing, is it the amazing gemstones?

00:03:46Marc:He's been doing that too.

00:03:47Marc:It's kind of a great character.

00:03:48Marc:He's a real Southern dude, the righteous gemstones.

00:03:51Marc:But he just works, dude.

00:03:52Marc:He doesn't give a fuck.

00:03:54Marc:He just wants to work and he does it.

00:03:57Marc:He's a great guy.

00:03:58Marc:Intense guy.

00:03:59Marc:His wife's great.

00:04:00Marc:They came together.

00:04:02Marc:It was one of those things, man.

00:04:04Marc:It was one of those things where it's like, this is a person I feel like I've known all my life.

00:04:08Marc:A very curious person.

00:04:10Marc:Very singular.

00:04:11Marc:And we had a good talk.

00:04:13Marc:Now look.

00:04:14Marc:Got some bad news.

00:04:16Marc:So here's what happened.

00:04:17Marc:So...

00:04:19Marc:I come home.

00:04:21Marc:We wrapped the show last Friday.

00:04:24Marc:It's Monday.

00:04:25Marc:And I swear to God, I was Friday the 13th, man.

00:04:27Marc:And I'm not a, you know, I'm not that guy.

00:04:31Marc:But for the first time in three months in Vancouver, one of the rainiest places in the world, we actually had weather problems.

00:04:37Marc:The last fucking night of shooting, we had to adjust and change locations because of rain and

00:04:43Marc:That happened, and we shot until like 11.30, 12 at night, and it's very emotional in a way, very bittersweet.

00:04:53Marc:You do get into sort of this zone with a shoot where you're working with these people every day.

00:04:57Marc:You see them every day.

00:04:58Marc:Someone's touching your hair and your face every day.

00:05:00Marc:You're acting with these people every day.

00:05:02Marc:You see the gaffers and the camera pullers and the DP and the showrunners and the directors and...

00:05:09Marc:You know, every catering and props and everybody.

00:05:12Marc:And you're just locked into this thing and it begins.

00:05:16Marc:You just lose all sense of time.

00:05:17Marc:It's like casino time.

00:05:18Marc:By the end of the goddamn shoot, you're like, when did we shoot that first episode?

00:05:23Marc:That felt like a fucking year ago.

00:05:26Marc:So it's a real journey.

00:05:28Marc:And so, you know, I hugged everybody and that might not have been a great idea given what happened.

00:05:36Marc:So I go back to the condo.

00:05:38Marc:I'd already packed.

00:05:39Marc:I'm not feeling great.

00:05:40Marc:That last night, Friday night after the shoot, I sleep, but like I'm feeling a little kind of a, you know, drippy in my nose, like that back of the throat vibe.

00:05:49Marc:And I'm like, ah, fuck.

00:05:50Marc:Well, I guess, you know, you do this whole shoot.

00:05:53Marc:You're going to, you know, you might get sick at the end.

00:05:56Marc:That happens.

00:05:58Marc:So I get up the next day.

00:05:59Marc:I don't feel great.

00:06:00Marc:I get to the airport.

00:06:01Marc:I fly home.

00:06:02Marc:I'm not feeling great, you know, and then I get home on, you know, Saturday night.

00:06:07Marc:And like by Saturday night, I'm like, something's coming.

00:06:10Marc:Feels like a cold.

00:06:13Marc:And I have a rough night, Saturday night, and I wake up Sunday morning, and I'm like, fuck, I'm sick.

00:06:19Marc:And I just, all I want to do is get back to work here.

00:06:21Marc:I got comedy shows.

00:06:23Marc:I got interviews all week.

00:06:25Marc:But, you know, you got to, you got to, I went and got that fucking COVID test.

00:06:30Marc:You know, I'm like, you got to do it.

00:06:32Marc:And it's so, it's such a throwback to such an awful time, the whole Binax testing thing.

00:06:39Marc:And you're just hoping, you know, you're hoping.

00:06:41Marc:It's not as menacing as it once was, but it is triggering.

00:06:45Marc:And I waited out, and I'm fucking positive.

00:06:48Marc:I've got COVID.

00:06:49Marc:Don't worry, you're not going to get it from the speaker.

00:06:52Marc:But I got fucking COVID, and I had to cancel these shows this week, and I'm sorry.

00:06:56Marc:the Dynasty typewriter and the Elysian.

00:06:59Marc:I'll reschedule them.

00:07:00Marc:I'm sorry, believe me, no one's more bummed out than you.

00:07:02Marc:I had interviews I had to do this week, but you can't just be spreading COVID around, you know?

00:07:07Marc:I mean, hopefully it'll be, I'll run out of it.

00:07:09Marc:I guess the protocol's five days and then you can mask up or whatever.

00:07:12Marc:But I do plan to go to Arizona Friday and Saturday.

00:07:17Marc:But I really wanted to get back into the swing, but maybe this is just...

00:07:22Marc:Maybe I just have to relax.

00:07:25Marc:Maybe this is the way it happens sometimes.

00:07:28Marc:You know, I was all ready to fucking just start jamming again.

00:07:30Marc:And my brain's not great right now.

00:07:33Marc:Not because of COVID, just in general.

00:07:35Marc:I'm a bit spun out and I'm moving in towards this October shooting of this movie.

00:07:40Marc:And, you know, I'm a little fucking, I'm a little spun out.

00:07:46Marc:So maybe I'll look at it as a reprieve, as some sort of gift.

00:07:51Marc:Hopefully the symptoms won't get too bad.

00:07:53Marc:I think I sound okay.

00:07:55Marc:And I think that it's mostly in my head.

00:07:57Marc:And maybe I'll just be tired and stuffed up, I hope.

00:08:04Marc:But I didn't get the last vaccine, so I can't, you know, I can blame myself for that.

00:08:08Marc:But I guess it's going around.

00:08:10Marc:I don't know where I got it, but I got it.

00:08:13Marc:So I'm going to be sitting around, isolated, just like people coming over to visit me and sitting on the porch.

00:08:20Marc:It was like, oh my God, it's all triggering to when Lynn passed away and that whole fucking thing where I was alone in the house and people would come over and it was like some sort of, I remember just like, you know, Bree came over, Allison, all messed up and she just hugged me and it was like, it was like courageous, just a hug.

00:08:39Marc:But this is only the second time I've gotten it.

00:08:42Marc:I got it years ago.

00:08:43Marc:And it feels kind of the same.

00:08:45Marc:But I am sorry about those two shows.

00:08:48Marc:And I'm sorry about the interviews I had to cancel.

00:08:50Marc:Hopefully we'll get caught up.

00:08:52Marc:But that's what's happening.

00:08:54Marc:I guess I'll be here.

00:08:55Marc:And also, all I was doing up there, so many hours just sitting around by myself in trailers or wandering around Vancouver by myself.

00:09:03Marc:And I was like, you know, I want to get back to engaged with the folks, the people, the comedy.

00:09:08Marc:And now I come home and I got to be by myself.

00:09:11Marc:But I'm going to try to look at it.

00:09:13Marc:Like it's okay.

00:09:15Marc:It's okay, man.

00:09:16Marc:You're just sick.

00:09:18Marc:It's just a week probably.

00:09:19Marc:And maybe you can, you know, focus on the script, do some reading.

00:09:25Marc:You know, there's a lot of little things that I want to get rid of in my house.

00:09:28Marc:I feel like maybe this is an age thing.

00:09:30Marc:It's just like I'm going to be 61 on the 27th.

00:09:35Marc:And I'm thinking a lot about throwing a lot of things away.

00:09:38Marc:It's time to throw it away.

00:09:42Marc:Get rid of it.

00:09:44Marc:I don't even know how this stuff amasses itself.

00:09:47Marc:I got bathroom drawers filled with toiletries and shit.

00:09:49Marc:I don't even know where it comes from.

00:09:51Marc:I got an office filled with stuff.

00:09:53Marc:I don't know where it comes from.

00:09:54Marc:Books, pictures.

00:09:55Marc:I just don't like it.

00:09:56Marc:Just eventually you you're sitting on a mound of stuff that at some point, if you don't do it, someone's going to have to go through it, take what they want and throw it away.

00:10:06Marc:Is this morbid?

00:10:09Marc:Uh-oh.

00:10:11Marc:Ah, COVID missed.

00:10:15Marc:I just misted it with COVID.

00:10:17Marc:Like an aerosol COVID dispenser.

00:10:20Marc:Oh God, you guys.

00:10:23Marc:All right, so listen, Eric Roberts, intense, great actor.

00:10:28Marc:He's got wild energy, man.

00:10:30Marc:And I sat right in front of it for an hour.

00:10:34Marc:His new memoir is Runaway Train or The Story of My Life So Far.

00:10:37Marc:It's available tomorrow wherever you get books.

00:10:40Marc:And what I'm learning with these memoirs is that these people grow up in a certain time or they come up in a certain time.

00:10:47Marc:I'm reading Kathleen Hanna's book from Bikini Kill, and it's great.

00:10:53Marc:I'm going to talk to her, and I'm going to know too much, but it's great because if these memoirs happen at a time in history where other things are happening around them, it gives you this whole insight into a community of music, art, and other stuff outside of their personal struggles.

00:11:07Marc:Anyway, look, Eric Roberts is here.

00:11:10Marc:The memoir, Runaway Train, comes out tomorrow, and this is me talking to...

00:11:15Marc:Eric, the singular Eric Roberts

00:11:27Marc:So I didn't know what the hell to, you know, I got the book, the galley of the book.

00:11:32Marc:It's not out yet, right?

00:11:33Marc:Oh, my book.

00:11:34Marc:Yes.

00:11:34Marc:Oh, Runaway Train.

00:11:36Marc:Exactly.

00:11:36Marc:The story of my life so far.

00:11:38Marc:But you know, a lot of times when I talk to people and they have books out, I don't, I try not, unless they can't talk, I try not to read the book too much because then I'll lead you just to set you up for stories and stuff.

00:11:50Marc:But I couldn't resist.

00:11:51Marc:So I'll be honest with you.

00:11:52Marc:My dad's a fucking narcissist too.

00:11:55Marc:Yeah.

00:11:56Marc:And, you know, these letters from your dad that are throughout the book, I'm like, I know that tone.

00:12:01Marc:That diminishing kind of, you know, nothing's quite good enough competitive tone.

00:12:10Marc:Is that coffee all right?

00:12:12Guest:Oh, coffee's dynamite, dude.

00:12:14Marc:But, like, I want to ask you just out of the gate since you've done a lot of thinking about it.

00:12:17Marc:Do you feel...

00:12:19Marc:And I'm just only relating to this for myself, that because of your parents' selfishness and insanity, do you feel like from the get-go you were kind of – your sense of self was kind of half – like kind of shattered?

00:12:33Guest:Well –

00:12:35Guest:The reason I love becoming and learning what it is to become and be and live like an actor was because of the fact I had no sense of self.

00:12:44Guest:Right.

00:12:45Guest:So I would take on these other people and I would enjoy being completely somebody else because I was completely not me because I had no sense of self.

00:12:54Guest:Right.

00:12:55Guest:Fill that void with these wonderful performances as a child.

00:12:58Guest:I was a wonderful child actor.

00:13:00Marc:Well, that's the amazing thing is that as weirdly emotionally and somewhat physically abusive as your folks were, they were, you know, I wouldn't say they were progressive, but they were artists at least.

00:13:12Guest:Look, the older I get, the more I realize my parents were children.

00:13:18Guest:Me too.

00:13:19Guest:And I remember me at 21.

00:13:21Guest:I remember me at 31.

00:13:23Guest:Oh, my God.

00:13:25Guest:What a child.

00:13:26Guest:And they had a kid when he was 22 and he was 23 and she was 21.

00:13:33Guest:Yeah.

00:13:34Guest:And, oh, God.

00:13:37Guest:Yeah.

00:13:38Guest:I had a kid at 34.

00:13:40Guest:Yeah.

00:13:41Guest:And I wasn't ready.

00:13:42Guest:Yeah.

00:13:43Guest:And so, you know, and, yeah, so the older I get, the more I see my folks as children.

00:13:50Marc:Well, that's forgiving in a way.

00:13:52Guest:Well, yeah, it's absolute, complete, 100% empathy.

00:13:56Marc:Yeah, I mean, I sometimes say that my parents weren't really parents.

00:14:00Marc:I don't see them as parents.

00:14:01Marc:I just see them as these people with problems I grew up with.

00:14:05Guest:That's a great term for a book.

00:14:07Marc:Yeah?

00:14:08Guest:Yeah, I see everything like books now.

00:14:10Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:14:10Marc:Yeah.

00:14:11Marc:Did you like writing this?

00:14:12Guest:No, it's hard.

00:14:13Guest:It's hard because I had a great helper, Sam.

00:14:19Guest:You know, he did the Obama interview on...

00:14:23Guest:on Vanity Fair that sold more issues of a magazine than anything in magazine history.

00:14:27Guest:So that was the guy.

00:14:28Guest:Some such stuff.

00:14:30Guest:Yeah.

00:14:30Guest:And he became the literary superstar of our time.

00:14:34Guest:Yeah.

00:14:35Guest:So when he talked to me about this book, I only flash on the salacious kind of angle that these kind of books go for a lot of times.

00:14:44Guest:Yeah.

00:14:44Guest:And I realized and I also play those kinds of characters.

00:14:48Guest:So they expect that from me.

00:14:49Guest:Right.

00:14:50Guest:So I thought, oh, God, this is going to be a nightmare.

00:14:53Guest:Right.

00:14:53Guest:But he was so gentle and he guided me like a true grown up and made me find my grown up self.

00:14:59Guest:I really I really appreciate the dude.

00:15:01Marc:So like there were moments where you tell stories and then like he would he guide you to reflect on it?

00:15:08Guest:No, he would not try to have his own way into the understanding.

00:15:15Guest:He would have me explain my understanding of a situation many ways on many days in many compilations.

00:15:26Guest:He would not settle for one thing.

00:15:28Marc:Well, the interesting thing about salacious is that, you know, living the actor's life at the time you did and when you started, half the people you knew went on to become, you know, big known people.

00:15:41Marc:So it's going to be salacious just by virtue of the fact that the people you came up with are people everybody knows.

00:15:47Marc:So if you talk about dating one of them, that's going to appear salacious.

00:15:51Marc:But in the community you were in, you were just with people you knew.

00:15:55Marc:Well, that's how it works.

00:15:56Marc:Right.

00:15:57Guest:Exactly.

00:15:57Marc:Yeah.

00:15:58Marc:But the surprising thing to me, which I knew nothing about, was where you grew up and the situation that you grew up in.

00:16:06Marc:It seems completely unique.

00:16:08Marc:Oh, really?

00:16:09Marc:Wow.

00:16:09Guest:Well, yeah.

00:16:10Guest:Because I don't see myself as that.

00:16:13Guest:I see myself as a dime a dozen in that aspect of my past.

00:16:19Marc:And just in terms of maybe regionally, but I mean, what did your parents do?

00:16:24Guest:What they did was they run a young people's acting school called the Actors and the Writers Workshop.

00:16:30Guest:In what town?

00:16:31Guest:In Atlanta, Georgia.

00:16:33Guest:Yeah.

00:16:34Guest:And we copied Joe Papp of the public theater in New York.

00:16:37Guest:And we had a showmobile.

00:16:39Guest:And we toured the underprivileged areas all week.

00:16:42Guest:And then on weekends, we had theater in Piedmont Park, which was like our central park.

00:16:47Guest:Yeah.

00:16:48Guest:And we did it for years and years and years and years.

00:16:50Marc:So when you, okay, when you say that, you know, they ran an acting school, I mean, they were in their 20s?

00:16:56Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:57Marc:And you grew, when did you remember being put on stage?

00:17:02Guest:At four years old, I did my first play.

00:17:04Guest:I played a mute clown for a Christmas play.

00:17:08Guest:Yeah.

00:17:08Guest:And had my first misdirection.

00:17:12Guest:Yeah, which one?

00:17:14Guest:Well, I fell off the stage.

00:17:16Guest:Oops, bam.

00:17:18Guest:Yeah, they had the toy box on downstage left for the rehearsals.

00:17:23Guest:And then dress rehearsal, we moved to upstage right for some reason.

00:17:26Guest:God knows.

00:17:27Guest:Now, I'm four.

00:17:29Guest:I'm a creature of habit.

00:17:30Guest:I have no dialogue.

00:17:31Guest:I just have physicality.

00:17:32Guest:And the lights are going down the end of act one.

00:17:34Guest:I run down the stage left to jump in the toy box, and it's not there.

00:17:38Guest:So, you know.

00:17:39Guest:It's got a big laugh?

00:17:40Guest:Yeah, no.

00:17:41Guest:I got a big, ooh.

00:17:42Guest:Oh, no.

00:17:43Guest:Because the lights were out.

00:17:44Guest:But the stage manager swept me up and got me backstage and put ice on my face and told me I was a trooper.

00:17:52Guest:Uh-huh.

00:17:52Guest:And like I said in the book, I have not liked that word ever since because it shows somebody who failed.

00:17:58Guest:Yeah.

00:17:59Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:17:59Marc:But it was sort of fascinating to me in the book that, you know, you describe early on, you know, as the relationship with your parents evolved.

00:18:09Marc:But early on, you felt that your parents were progressive people.

00:18:13Marc:They were hip.

00:18:14Marc:And that, you know, there's even in the story that Coretta King brought the kids over to take classes.

00:18:22Guest:It was an integrated acting school, which in 1960, whatever year that was, three, four, five.

00:18:30Guest:Three, yeah.

00:18:30Guest:It was a big deal.

00:18:32Guest:Oh, my God.

00:18:32Guest:Atlanta integrated what?

00:18:34Guest:It was like- And it was in your house.

00:18:36Guest:Yeah.

00:18:36Guest:Well, we had this huge mansion.

00:18:38Guest:Yeah.

00:18:38Guest:This old Victorian home that downstairs had six rooms.

00:18:42Guest:As big as formal dining rooms, huge rooms.

00:18:45Guest:And they had these sliding doors in between them and stuff.

00:18:48Guest:It was a huge, probably 6,500 square feet.

00:18:51Guest:Right.

00:18:52Guest:Big old, big old joint.

00:18:53Guest:Yeah.

00:18:54Guest:And upstairs we lived.

00:18:55Guest:And that's where I grew up.

00:18:56Guest:That's where I have my happiest memories of being me.

00:19:00Guest:But you never met Martin Luther King?

00:19:02Guest:Oh, many times.

00:19:03Guest:He cut my 10th birthday cake.

00:19:05Guest:in Stone Mountain Park in 1966.

00:19:09Guest:Really?

00:19:09Guest:You betcha.

00:19:10Guest:His kids were all in a play there with me, and it was my birthday, and all the parents showed up for all the kids, and he was there for his kids, for Yoki, Marty Dexter, and Bunny were all in the play.

00:19:21Guest:Yeah.

00:19:22Guest:And Coretta was there, but he was very, congratulations, you are 10!

00:19:27Guest:Yeah.

00:19:29Guest:And I gave him the knife to cut my cake, because he was like the...

00:19:34Guest:Special guest.

00:19:35Guest:Did you ever get to go to his church?

00:19:37Guest:Oh, Ebenezer?

00:19:38Guest:Yeah.

00:19:39Guest:All the time, dude.

00:19:40Guest:Yeah.

00:19:42Guest:Like, if you add it up, probably once a month for...

00:19:45Guest:Six years, seven years.

00:19:46Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:19:47Marc:And what was it?

00:19:48Marc:Do you remember?

00:19:48Marc:Was there an impact of that on you?

00:19:50Guest:It was the music.

00:19:52Guest:Yeah.

00:19:52Guest:That's all I gave a hell about.

00:19:53Guest:Right.

00:19:54Guest:The music.

00:19:54Guest:The music was like, yeah, okay, that's why we go to church is the music.

00:19:57Guest:Right.

00:19:57Guest:That's why we went to church.

00:19:58Guest:I didn't go to church for God.

00:20:00Guest:Yeah.

00:20:01Guest:I'm a little boy.

00:20:01Marc:Yeah.

00:20:02Guest:What do I care?

00:20:03Marc:Yeah.

00:20:03Marc:And you weren't brought up.

00:20:04Marc:Your parents weren't religious in any way.

00:20:06Guest:No, they were very agnostic.

00:20:07Guest:Although mom was...

00:20:09Guest:raised Episcopalian and went to Catholicism after she left my father.

00:20:15Guest:Okay.

00:20:15Guest:Yeah.

00:20:16Guest:Oh, that's a dramatic turn.

00:20:18Guest:Yeah, she got all Catholic.

00:20:21Guest:Yeah.

00:20:21Guest:And it was weird because, you know, her old man, her second husband was...

00:20:27Guest:You know, he'd been arrested for exposing himself in a public bathroom.

00:20:30Guest:Yeah.

00:20:31Guest:So it's kind of weird, the dichotomy.

00:20:34Marc:Dude, there's that scene with that man when he swams you up against the wall in the book.

00:20:40Marc:It says he's going to marry my mother and do me too.

00:20:43Marc:He's going to fuck her and fuck you too.

00:20:45Guest:He's going to marry my mother and fuck me too.

00:20:48Oh.

00:20:48Yeah, yeah.

00:20:49Guest:Is he dead?

00:20:50Guest:I think he is.

00:20:51Guest:The thing about it is when I first ever told that story, it got, of course, and debated.

00:20:59Guest:By the family?

00:21:01Guest:By everybody living.

00:21:03Guest:And then it came out that he had somebody in his family who cleaned a police record of his.

00:21:13Guest:So, it all came out through a writer who was writing a book.

00:21:17Guest:I think on my sister, I'm not sure.

00:21:19Guest:But it was a writer who was writing a book about one of us or all of us or some of us.

00:21:23Guest:And, yeah, so it became fact of point, point of fact that that really happened.

00:21:31Guest:And because, you know, it's so sad about life.

00:21:37Guest:It ends.

00:21:38Yeah.

00:21:38Guest:The one guarantee we have.

00:21:42Guest:Oh, we all have that in common.

00:21:43Guest:It so sucks.

00:21:44Marc:Well, I mean, you saw a lot of people go down, certainly.

00:21:49Marc:So by the time, well, I mean, after all that, I mean, when your 10th birthday happens, your sisters aren't even born yet.

00:21:57Marc:Lisa's a baby.

00:21:58Marc:Oh, okay.

00:21:59Marc:Yeah.

00:22:00Marc:And then when did you go live with your dad?

00:22:02Guest:When did they split up?

00:22:03Guest:Oh, that's not for years and years.

00:22:04Guest:Oh, really?

00:22:05Guest:Yeah.

00:22:05Guest:That's not for half my lifetime ahead of me at the time.

00:22:08Marc:Yeah.

00:22:09Marc:So you're all in the house doing the acting thing.

00:22:12Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:22:13Guest:And it's a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week thing.

00:22:17Guest:And I'm doing eight to 12 plays a year as a little boy.

00:22:20Guest:I've become a theater kid.

00:22:22Guest:I look back on myself.

00:22:24Guest:Yeah.

00:22:24Guest:And I remember I had this friend of mine, Andrew Bridges.

00:22:27Guest:Where are you, Andrew?

00:22:27Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:22:28Guest:Good day, buddy.

00:22:29Guest:Anyway, Andrew Bridges and I, we worked out this routine to West Side Story because we both loved the album.

00:22:36Guest:And we called in his mother and my father, and we're at Andrew's house.

00:22:41Guest:He's very wealthy.

00:22:42Guest:He had this big house on West Paces Ferry Road, which is where the governor's mansion is, blah, blah, blah.

00:22:47Guest:He's very wealthy.

00:22:49Guest:And we did this big dance routine for my father and his mother.

00:22:52Guest:I look back on it.

00:22:52Guest:We must have come across as two...

00:22:56Guest:Gay boys growing up to be chorus line dancers incognito.

00:23:01Guest:It was so, it had to, both our parents had to think, well, our boys are little gay men.

00:23:06Guest:Yep.

00:23:07Guest:Because it had to be so funny to them.

00:23:11Marc:But you,

00:23:11Guest:You also had a grandfather that was kind of like that, right?

00:23:14Guest:Oh, he was a bad redneck.

00:23:15Guest:Yeah.

00:23:16Marc:Which one?

00:23:16Guest:Your mom's dad?

00:23:17Guest:No, my dad's dad.

00:23:19Guest:Yeah.

00:23:19Guest:He trained horses and shit.

00:23:20Guest:He was a badass.

00:23:21Guest:Yeah.

00:23:22Guest:Yeah.

00:23:22Guest:And he always thought I was a little gay boy.

00:23:24Guest:Yeah.

00:23:25Guest:In fact, he told me once.

00:23:27Guest:My oldest cousin is eight years younger than me, Adam Bowles.

00:23:30Guest:Great guy, great cat.

00:23:32Guest:Yeah.

00:23:32Guest:And he told me once that Adam was his real grandson because he's an old boy.

00:23:37Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:23:38Guest:Obviously, I mean, I don't remember being a feat, but I obviously was.

00:23:43Guest:I was a theater kid who wore costumes and makeup.

00:23:45Guest:Right.

00:23:47Marc:But also, you are not a feat, but you're definitely, like, flamboyant.

00:23:52Marc:Right?

00:23:53Guest:Yeah, I suppose I always have been.

00:23:57Guest:Yeah.

00:23:57Guest:I never really thought about it up until I became an older man.

00:24:00Guest:Yeah.

00:24:01Guest:And I realized, I look back on my behavior like my dancing to West Side Story with Andrew Bridges for our parents.

00:24:09Guest:It's very funny.

00:24:12Guest:It's very funny.

00:24:13Guest:But what are you going to do?

00:24:14Guest:But yeah, I mean, you know, theater.

00:24:16Guest:I was a theater kid.

00:24:18Guest:Yeah, you got to sing and dance.

00:24:19Guest:Yeah, there's a bright golden haze on the meadow.

00:24:21Guest:How many times did I sing that at eight years old?

00:24:24Guest:I mean, yeah.

00:24:25Marc:What's fascinating, so you guys would go to, I don't think I've ever said fascinating so much, but tell me about the performing thing.

00:24:34Marc:So you guys would drive in to do shows in black neighborhoods?

00:24:39Marc:Is that how it worked?

00:24:40Marc:Your dad would put together a show with all the kids, and then you'd go perform them in parks and wherever?

00:24:45Guest:It sounds like such a hobby when you say it that way.

00:24:49Guest:It was how we lived.

00:24:50Guest:We had theater in the park, it was called.

00:24:52Guest:Every weekend we'd have matinees on Saturday and evening performance, matinees on Sunday and an evening performance, and sometimes a morning...

00:25:03Guest:a performance on Sunday if we had a special group who was bussed in.

00:25:08Guest:But we toured the Under Pillars areas all week, just like Joe Papp did for the public theater back in the day, back in the early 60s.

00:25:15Guest:We would tour the Under Pillars areas, what you call black neighborhoods.

00:25:20Guest:And we toured the Under Pillars areas, and we'd set up, and they would sit there.

00:25:25Guest:And the only time it ever got out of control was we were doing Bluebeard.

00:25:29Guest:And I was playing Komor, who had a hump on his back.

00:25:34Guest:Was one of those kind of characters.

00:25:36Guest:And I got mauled.

00:25:38Guest:I got mobbed.

00:25:40Guest:Yeah.

00:25:41Guest:And we had to take care of me.

00:25:43Guest:Mauled by what?

00:25:45Guest:By the audience.

00:25:46Guest:They're like, no!

00:25:47Guest:Really?

00:25:48Guest:It was after the show backstage.

00:25:51Guest:Yeah.

00:25:52Guest:But that's the only time we never got...

00:25:54Guest:too real to talk about.

00:25:56Guest:Interesting.

00:25:57Guest:Yeah, it was fun.

00:25:58Guest:So when do... It was a great time in my life.

00:26:01Marc:Yeah, I mean, it sounds great, and it sounds like your dad really saw himself as, what would you call it?

00:26:06Marc:Like, he was modeling himself after Joe Papp, so he definitely was aware of...

00:26:10Marc:of being a big shot theater guy.

00:26:13Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:26:14Guest:And that was his goal.

00:26:15Guest:And he was gentle to everybody but me, and he was a lovely man.

00:26:22Guest:Yeah.

00:26:22Guest:And he was so handsome, he would turn heads on the street.

00:26:25Guest:I'd be walking, holding his hand, I would see people.

00:26:27Guest:like a double take and looking at my dad yeah and i would always notice that as a little boy thing wow my daddy must look like somebody yeah yeah yeah so when did you uh end up uh when did they get split up and you got split up from your sisters when i'm 15 okay yeah yeah and uh yeah and uh because they were just becoming real little people they were five and three yeah and uh

00:26:51Marc:What was that choice to, you go with him and they stay with her?

00:26:55Guest:That was pretty much mom's choice.

00:26:58Guest:Yeah.

00:26:58Guest:And that's what she chose.

00:27:00Guest:And, yeah, and, you know, but I look at kids now, and I realize...

00:27:08Guest:14 and 15-year-old boys are a pain in the ass.

00:27:11Guest:Yeah.

00:27:12Guest:I'm sure I was.

00:27:13Guest:Yeah.

00:27:14Guest:I don't remember myself that way at all.

00:27:15Guest:But I'm sure I was.

00:27:17Guest:I'm sure I was an emotional pain in the ass, as all 14 and 15-year-olds are.

00:27:21Guest:Sure.

00:27:22Guest:You don't avoid it.

00:27:23Guest:Yeah.

00:27:25Guest:But I remember it a certain way.

00:27:27Guest:Yeah.

00:27:28Guest:And I'm sure it's very biased.

00:27:30Guest:Right.

00:27:30Guest:And I'm sure my poor mom was a poor mom in many ways.

00:27:35Guest:But she had her own problems, right?

00:27:36Guest:Yeah.

00:27:37Guest:But who doesn't?

00:27:38Guest:Right.

00:27:39Guest:But my wife kept me honest.

00:27:41Guest:I didn't embellish.

00:27:43Guest:I probably left out half a dozen things in my life in this book that I think are in such bad taste.

00:27:50Guest:I thought it would give them, I thought it would give a flavor to the book I didn't want.

00:27:55Marc:Well, I mean, it sounds like, you know, having read half of the book and then talking to you now, that this was somewhat, did it work as sort of an exorcism?

00:28:03Marc:It sure did, Phil.

00:28:04Guest:But then that's what they do.

00:28:06Guest:I mean, Christ.

00:28:07Guest:I mean, who would think?

00:28:09Guest:Because, you know, when you start to get elderly, which I've started to do.

00:28:13Guest:You don't look at yourself that way.

00:28:14Guest:You don't see it that way.

00:28:15Guest:That's right.

00:28:16Guest:You don't see your age in the mirror.

00:28:18Guest:You don't see your age when you shave.

00:28:19Guest:You don't see it.

00:28:20Marc:You don't feel it.

00:28:21Marc:That's true.

00:28:21Marc:Until you see pictures of yourself.

00:28:23Marc:And then you're like, holy shit.

00:28:25Guest:I have titanium hips.

00:28:27Guest:But yeah, every town I go to, I can turn on the TV and I can find myself.

00:28:34Guest:I can find myself in a movie somewhere.

00:28:36Guest:And I will have completely different colored hair a lot of times.

00:28:40Guest:It's funny to me.

00:28:41Guest:The blonde hair and Coca-Cola kid?

00:28:43Guest:No, what I'm talking about is age.

00:28:45Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:47Marc:I mean, Jesus, I mean, there's some years he did like 10 movies.

00:28:51Marc:So you can see the whole arc of that.

00:28:53Marc:At least.

00:28:54Guest:Yeah.

00:28:55Guest:Like any actor, whoever was, I would do one to four movies a year, every year.

00:29:00Guest:And they took film and they gave us digital.

00:29:03Guest:So everybody with a camera became their own studio.

00:29:06Guest:So they started calling me direct.

00:29:08Guest:Right.

00:29:08Guest:And my wife comes to me, I don't know what year, 95, 6, 7, 8, whenever, in the 90s, and says to me, Eric...

00:29:15Guest:We're getting 30 to 50 offers every day from all over the world.

00:29:21Guest:Indie movies.

00:29:21Guest:Yeah.

00:29:22Guest:Yeah.

00:29:22Guest:Do you want to go do this?

00:29:23Guest:Yeah.

00:29:24Guest:I said, yeah, let's go have fun.

00:29:25Guest:And we started doing it.

00:29:27Guest:I thought it lasted a couple of months, a couple of years.

00:29:30Guest:But it's been three decades.

00:29:32Marc:The way you framed it was like you could go and be on set for two days.

00:29:40Marc:To do a part in a small film.

00:29:42Marc:Yeah.

00:29:42Marc:So, and I, you know, I do a little acting myself.

00:29:45Marc:So that's a big consideration.

00:29:47Marc:How long am I going to be away?

00:29:48Marc:Where do I got to travel to?

00:29:50Marc:But when I'm looking at the filmography, I'm like, how the fuck are you going to do 12 movies in a year?

00:29:54Marc:Well, you go ahead and show up for a week, three days, and then go do another one.

00:29:59Guest:The hard part is the scheduling because everybody's movie is their baby, and you have to treat it that way.

00:30:05Guest:That is their child, and you have to treat it that way.

00:30:08Guest:You have to give them the same respect they do.

00:30:10Guest:So their schedule is their schedule, and they only have that schedule.

00:30:15Guest:But you've got a bunch of people with a bunch of schedules.

00:30:17Guest:I have 90 projects in the works right now.

00:30:20Guest:So I have a wife who is a genius.

00:30:24Guest:It's also literal.

00:30:25Guest:She is a literal, a bona fide IQ genius.

00:30:27Guest:But besides that, she's a genius in that she gives everybody what they need to get it done.

00:30:33Guest:And she schedules me the job.

00:30:36Guest:Right.

00:30:36Guest:Because I love working like I love her all day, every day.

00:30:40Guest:Yeah.

00:30:41Guest:I got the best job on the planet.

00:30:42Guest:We all know that.

00:30:43Guest:Yeah.

00:30:44Guest:You love it.

00:30:45Guest:Well, I do.

00:30:46Guest:Yeah, clearly.

00:30:47Guest:I have the best job there is to have.

00:30:49Guest:Yeah.

00:30:50Guest:I love going to work and everybody hates going to work but me.

00:30:53Guest:Yeah.

00:30:53Guest:I just love going to work.

00:30:55Guest:When did you go to New York?

00:30:57Guest:When did I go to New York?

00:30:59Guest:I went to New York in 1975, and I found my first apartment on Flatbush Avenue and Glenwood Road in Brooklyn, behind Brooklyn College.

00:31:07Guest:Yeah.

00:31:08Guest:$160 a month of four-flight walk-up, three rooms.

00:31:12Guest:Yeah.

00:31:12Guest:Nice.

00:31:13Guest:Yeah, it is nice, yeah.

00:31:14Guest:Had a lousy view over an alley, but it was a great apartment.

00:31:17Guest:And a lot of space.

00:31:18Guest:Yeah, a lot of space.

00:31:19Guest:I had a mattress and a door open.

00:31:22Guest:Oversaw horses as my desk.

00:31:24Guest:And he started to go at it.

00:31:26Marc:Yeah.

00:31:27Marc:And where were you at the American Theater of Dramatic?

00:31:30Marc:What was the name of the joint?

00:31:31Guest:The American Academy of Dramatic Art.

00:31:32Marc:What was the name of the guy there who was your teacher?

00:31:35Guest:Manu Tupou.

00:31:36Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:31:37Guest:Yeah, he played the Indian chief in Man Called Horse and the Prince in Hawaii with Julie Andrews.

00:31:44Guest:Yeah, he was my teacher there.

00:31:45Guest:But the teacher I had there, who I don't think is in the book...

00:31:49Guest:But she was unbelievable.

00:31:51Guest:Her name was Jory Weiler.

00:31:54Guest:And she gave me hope that, because she reminded me of my father and his technique.

00:32:00Guest:And that all techniques matter.

00:32:02Guest:If they work, find what works.

00:32:04Guest:Don't find a technique and...

00:32:06Guest:It developed a technique, the technique, if it works, because it all comes back to making it, making everybody go, wow, what did I just witness?

00:32:15Guest:Right, right.

00:32:16Guest:That's what it comes back to.

00:32:16Marc:What did she teach you?

00:32:18Guest:That.

00:32:18Guest:Yeah.

00:32:19Guest:That whatever works, go for it.

00:32:21Guest:And she, she, she, she, she helped.

00:32:24Guest:My father made me brave, but she'll keep me brave.

00:32:28Guest:And I really, I never thanked her enough, Jory Weiler.

00:32:31Marc:So the idea then is that whatever it takes, whatever you've got in you and whatever you've learned, if it works, it works.

00:32:39Guest:Well, there, there, yeah.

00:32:40Guest:And there are tricks.

00:32:42Guest:You don't have to always go on an emotional journey.

00:32:45Guest:You can cheat.

00:32:46Guest:Yeah.

00:32:47Guest:Yeah.

00:32:48Marc:It doesn't always have to be a therapy session.

00:32:50Marc:Yeah.

00:32:51Marc:Because in the book, you pay a bit of lip service to the idea that over the course of an actor's life, you're going to leave a lot of you on the stage and then you're going to end up with nothing.

00:33:01Marc:You still believe that?

00:33:03Marc:Of course.

00:33:04Guest:But, you know, what I learned as I got older is it's such a good job.

00:33:12Guest:If you learn to enjoy every minute, even the bad stuff is still fun.

00:33:16Guest:And it's not...

00:33:19Guest:It's not heart transplanting.

00:33:22Guest:It's acting.

00:33:23Marc:Yes, but when you were in New York, there was that place, what was that cafe where everyone was hanging out?

00:33:28Marc:Cafe Central.

00:33:29Marc:And Bruce Willis was the bartender.

00:33:31Marc:Yeah.

00:33:32Marc:And you had experiences with a lot of people who were in that world.

00:33:36Marc:Like, I didn't know you knew Robin Williams.

00:33:38Marc:Sure, I knew Robin well.

00:33:40Marc:When he was in New York.

00:33:41Marc:Sure, I knew him really well.

00:33:43Guest:Yeah, what was that?

00:33:43Guest:We hung out.

00:33:44Guest:Yeah, and was he doing stand-up?

00:33:46Guest:No, it was after those days were over.

00:33:49Guest:Okay, so mid-70s.

00:33:50Guest:But he was always doing stand-up.

00:33:52Guest:Sure, sure.

00:33:54Guest:But he told you some stuff.

00:33:55Guest:Yeah, we had some talks.

00:33:56Guest:We were both nominated at the same time once.

00:33:59Guest:And he was very moved by his nominations.

00:34:04Guest:Yeah.

00:34:04Guest:He was very moved by them.

00:34:06Guest:I think he was the last person I ever expected he would be nominated for an Academy Award.

00:34:12Guest:And he was very moved.

00:34:14Marc:But he also seemed to be aware of what fame could do and what it meant to be an artist.

00:34:19Guest:Well, look at him.

00:34:20Marc:Yeah.

00:34:21Marc:Because he told you some stuff.

00:34:22Guest:Yeah.

00:34:23Guest:He was cool to talk to.

00:34:24Guest:Yeah.

00:34:25Guest:I liked Robin.

00:34:26Guest:I thought I would hate it to have been involved with Robin.

00:34:30Guest:Because I think it was out of his mind.

00:34:33Guest:Yeah.

00:34:34Guest:In a way that's so hard to contain.

00:34:36Guest:Yeah.

00:34:36Guest:But he was brilliant.

00:34:38Guest:Yeah.

00:34:38Guest:He was just a brilliant human being.

00:34:40Marc:He was out of his mind in an entertaining way.

00:34:42Guest:Oh, well, yeah, but that's belittling a little bit.

00:34:45Guest:Yeah.

00:34:45Guest:It was more than entertaining.

00:34:46Guest:It was enlightening.

00:34:47Guest:Yeah.

00:34:49Guest:But it was also so unique.

00:34:51Guest:It was like, what did I just experience?

00:34:53Marc:Oh, my God.

00:34:53Guest:Yeah.

00:34:54Guest:You had no idea sometimes.

00:34:55Guest:And when did you meet Walken?

00:34:56Guest:Yeah.

00:34:56Guest:Well, Walken I met very early because the night I agreed to sign with my manager, it's 1975.

00:35:04Guest:Yeah.

00:35:05Guest:And he says, I have to go meet another client now.

00:35:07Guest:Do you want to come?

00:35:08Guest:Yeah.

00:35:08Guest:I said, sure.

00:35:09Guest:This was, what's his name?

00:35:10Guest:Bill Tresh.

00:35:11Guest:Yes.

00:35:12Guest:T-R-E-U-S-H.

00:35:12Marc:Pretty famous guy, yeah.

00:35:14Yeah.

00:35:14Guest:Cool cat.

00:35:15Guest:Yeah.

00:35:15Guest:Anyway, he says, do you want to come?

00:35:18Guest:I said, sure.

00:35:19Guest:I had nothing to do.

00:35:21Guest:Yeah.

00:35:22Guest:Anyway, we go to Jimmy Ray's.

00:35:24Guest:We went from Charlie's to Jimmy Ray's.

00:35:27Guest:They were two very popular theater bars.

00:35:30Guest:Yeah.

00:35:30Guest:We go to Jimmy Ray's, and Chris Walken's there, and Bill introduces us, and Chris Walken says to me, quote, if you can act, you can be a star.

00:35:42Guest:Yeah.

00:35:42Guest:And that was the first time anybody ever said that to me.

00:35:47Guest:So I was very moved.

00:35:48Guest:Because I had just seen Chris unbeknownst to him.

00:35:51Guest:What's the play by Tennessee Williams?

00:35:54Guest:He did with Irene Eworth.

00:35:56Guest:Sweet Bird of Youth.

00:35:56Guest:I had just seen Sweet Bird of Youth the week before.

00:36:00Guest:Granted, I only saw the second act because I couldn't afford a ticket.

00:36:03Guest:So I went with the crowd and I knew some ushers who let me stand in the back.

00:36:07Guest:But I had seen him twice from...

00:36:09Guest:from act two on yeah sweet bird of youth he was magnificent you know that's an actor wow yeah and then i get to meet him and he was a cool cat yeah and we became friends kind of right away and we kind of been friends ever since and then we were neighbors in new york we lived he lived on 79th i lived on 73rd and uh he lived you know close to amsterdam i live close to center part west that's exactly six blocks away yeah and we were

00:36:36Guest:a half mile away from each other in Connecticut.

00:36:39Guest:Yeah.

00:36:40Guest:So he did a lot of cooking for me.

00:36:43Guest:He's the best cook I ever met.

00:36:44Guest:He's not a chef.

00:36:45Guest:I'm like, God, can he cook?

00:36:47Guest:Yeah.

00:36:48Marc:He feels like a guy that... So you guys are still buddies.

00:36:51Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:36:51Marc:Yeah.

00:36:52Guest:He's a cool cat.

00:36:53Marc:Yeah.

00:36:53Marc:And when you get cast in King of the Gypsies, how did that unfold?

00:36:59Guest:Well...

00:37:01Guest:I had just come back from my father's death and the dealing with that.

00:37:06Guest:It's early January.

00:37:07Guest:It's like January 3rd of that year.

00:37:08Guest:I'm making up a date, but it's early January, and I come back, and my manager hands me a script.

00:37:14Guest:He says, this is based on the book by Peter Moss.

00:37:17Guest:He wrote Serpico.

00:37:19Guest:I know you love Serpico.

00:37:21Guest:So I asked if I could read the script.

00:37:23Guest:I read the script, and I think you're right for the lead, and I want you to read it.

00:37:27Guest:And he also gave me the books.

00:37:28Guest:I read both of them.

00:37:30Guest:And then I met Frank Pearson, who wrote the screenplay.

00:37:37Guest:And we just met.

00:37:39Guest:And then he said, and he gave me sides.

00:37:43Guest:Yeah.

00:37:43Guest:You know what sides are?

00:37:44Guest:Sure.

00:37:45Guest:He gave me sides and he said, go study these and come back and read for me.

00:37:49Guest:I said, sure.

00:37:50Marc:Yeah.

00:37:50Guest:So I came back, I think just a couple days later.

00:37:52Guest:Yeah.

00:37:53Guest:And I read for him.

00:37:54Guest:And then he had me come back and he had me read for him alone.

00:37:57Guest:Yeah.

00:37:58Guest:And he gave me some direction.

00:38:00Guest:And he stood back away from me this time.

00:38:01Guest:He was acting like a real film director, which got blown my mind because I'd never been around that.

00:38:05Guest:Yeah.

00:38:06Guest:And he was standing away from me and he was looking at me funny and asking me.

00:38:11Guest:And he said, can you cry?

00:38:13Guest:And I said, if I have to.

00:38:16Guest:Yeah.

00:38:16Guest:And he laughed.

00:38:17Guest:Yeah.

00:38:17Guest:And he said, okay, that's good enough.

00:38:19Guest:Anyway, and then he had me screen test.

00:38:22Guest:And the morning of the screen test, there was a snowstorm in New York.

00:38:25Guest:The evening and the morning of the screen test, there was a snowstorm in New York.

00:38:29Guest:And it shut everything down.

00:38:30Guest:Shut all public transit down.

00:38:32Guest:Shut everything down.

00:38:33Guest:This is...

00:38:35Guest:This is January of 78.

00:38:36Guest:I don't know what week, but it shuts everything down.

00:38:41Guest:But I still had a screen test, by God.

00:38:43Guest:And so I walked from, I was living at number 7 West 73rd Street.

00:38:51Guest:And I walked down in the snow.

00:38:52Guest:The snow is a good foot deep on the sidewalks.

00:38:55Guest:And it's kind of run down the streets, but it's, it's, it's, and there's no traffic.

00:39:00Guest:Yeah.

00:39:01Guest:And I walked down to my screen test and of course they explained to me, we are running late as you can well imagine.

00:39:06Guest:So relax in that room.

00:39:07Guest:Yeah.

00:39:08Guest:So I go to this room with my script and my, my P code I had at the time and,

00:39:12Guest:I bundle up and I go to sleep.

00:39:14Guest:And I slept and they wake me up at like 2 o'clock in the afternoon.

00:39:18Guest:It's like 10 o'clock in the morning.

00:39:19Guest:Yeah, 2 o'clock in the afternoon.

00:39:21Guest:Okay, Mr. Roberts, ready for a screen test.

00:39:22Guest:Okay.

00:39:23Guest:And they put me through wardrobe and they put me through makeup, which is powder puff, poof, you know.

00:39:29Guest:And I said, go.

00:39:30Guest:And I go out there and a guy was reading off camera for me and I did three scenes.

00:39:35Guest:And then Frank showed Dino, and he told Dino, this is who I want.

00:39:40Guest:Dino De Laurentiis.

00:39:41Guest:Yeah.

00:39:42Guest:And Dino said, but of course.

00:39:43Guest:Yeah.

00:39:45Guest:And then they made me a movie star, dude.

00:39:48Guest:And you got to work with Sterling Hayden.

00:39:50Guest:I got to work with Sterling Hayden, one of the coolest cats I've ever known in my whole life.

00:39:54Marc:I just watched The Godfather recently.

00:39:56Guest:Yeah.

00:39:56Guest:Oh, my God.

00:39:57Guest:When he smacks Al.

00:39:58Guest:Yeah.

00:39:59Guest:Hold him.

00:39:59Guest:When I met him, it was my first night shoot I ever had.

00:40:03Guest:I'd already been shooting for about three weeks.

00:40:07Guest:It was my first night shoot.

00:40:08Guest:I show up about 5 o'clock in the afternoon.

00:40:10Guest:I go to my trailer.

00:40:12Guest:I go to knock on my door.

00:40:12Guest:Mr. Hayden would like to talk to you.

00:40:15Guest:Oh, cool, man.

00:40:17Guest:So I get all dressed in my costume, and I knock on his door.

00:40:21Guest:Come in.

00:40:21Guest:I go in.

00:40:22Guest:It smells like hashish.

00:40:24Guest:I'm thinking, what the F is this about?

00:40:27Guest:Have a seat, young man.

00:40:29Guest:I sit down.

00:40:30Guest:Do you get high?

00:40:31Guest:I've been known to.

00:40:32Guest:Want to get high?

00:40:33Guest:No, I do not.

00:40:34Guest:I can't act when I'm high because I can't talk.

00:40:36Guest:Oh, oh, oh, oh.

00:40:38Guest:Well, I can't.

00:40:39Guest:I get high.

00:40:41Guest:What are you shooting tonight?

00:40:42Guest:I said, scene 87.

00:40:43Guest:I know the goddamn number.

00:40:44Guest:What happens?

00:40:46Guest:I was scared to death right away.

00:40:48Guest:Yeah.

00:40:48Guest:But he and I bonded, and he was brilliant, and he was cool.

00:40:53Guest:And then we discovered there were neighbors in Connecticut.

00:40:57Guest:Yeah.

00:40:58Guest:So we started grocery shopping together.

00:41:00Guest:Really?

00:41:00Guest:And I'd pick him up.

00:41:02Guest:He'd get stoned.

00:41:03Guest:We'd go grocery shopping.

00:41:04Guest:Well, we'd both get stoned.

00:41:05Marc:Yeah.

00:41:05Guest:And we'd go grocery shopping.

00:41:07Guest:And we did that a few times.

00:41:10Marc:Yeah, you kind of talk in the book about these father figures that you're constantly in search of or constantly gravitating towards.

00:41:16Guest:Well, I actually never called it that or never thought of it as that up until I met my wife.

00:41:21Guest:And when I was...

00:41:23Guest:Going through my life story with my wife over the years.

00:41:25Guest:Yeah.

00:41:26Guest:She put those terms on it.

00:41:28Guest:Uh-huh.

00:41:28Guest:And I agreed with her because I don't disagree with her.

00:41:32Guest:Right.

00:41:32Guest:But you didn't really think of it that way.

00:41:34Guest:Well, especially at the time.

00:41:36Guest:Because I loved Shirley so much, and it made me laugh so loud.

00:41:40Guest:I mean, he would just punch you in the gut with funny stuff.

00:41:44Guest:Yeah.

00:41:44Guest:Funny stuff, dude.

00:41:46Guest:Yeah.

00:41:46Guest:And I can't quote him, but things like he would tell his whole story, very dramatic, and then he would say...

00:41:53Guest:But she was a good ass kisser.

00:41:54Guest:Yeah.

00:41:55Guest:And you just fall down, you know, because of his reading.

00:41:58Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:58Guest:And he was just, he was neat.

00:42:00Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:42:01Guest:And the way he would talk about his wife, he loved Kitty.

00:42:04Guest:Yeah.

00:42:04Guest:Kitty, Kitty, Kitty.

00:42:06Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:42:06Guest:Kitty's put over some shit.

00:42:08Guest:And he was just, he was magnificent.

00:42:12Marc:When did the drugs start for you?

00:42:15Guest:Well, I smoked pot all through high school.

00:42:19Guest:Sure.

00:42:23Guest:But cocaine started for me at the wrap party of my first play for Joe Pepp called Rebel Women.

00:42:32Guest:Doug Kenny, who invented National Lamp, and wrote Animal House.

00:42:39Guest:Yeah.

00:42:41Guest:Had my wife in it.

00:42:42Guest:Made her famous.

00:42:44Guest:Which wife?

00:42:46Guest:The only wife I ever had.

00:42:47Guest:Eliza.

00:42:47Marc:She was in it?

00:42:48Marc:Yeah.

00:42:48Marc:What's she playing now?

00:42:49Guest:Can we dance for your dates?

00:42:51Guest:Yeah.

00:42:53Guest:Brunella.

00:42:54Guest:Yeah.

00:42:54Guest:And Doug Kenny laid a bunch out for us.

00:43:00Guest:And, yeah.

00:43:02Yeah.

00:43:03Guest:And that was it?

00:43:04Guest:Yeah, I started doing Coat with Doug.

00:43:06Guest:And, you know, Doug would always take me out to lunch or in rehearsal for that play.

00:43:12Guest:He was dating Catherine.

00:43:14Guest:Did I already say that?

00:43:15Guest:No.

00:43:15Guest:And he would take me out to lunch.

00:43:17Guest:Catherine who?

00:43:18Guest:Catherine Walker was a star of Rebel Women, my first Joe Pat play.

00:43:22Guest:And he would take me out to lunch.

00:43:24Guest:And...

00:43:25Guest:I told him a great story that actually a guy named Ron Shuey told my father this happened to Ron.

00:43:32Guest:But I would tell the story as if it happened to me.

00:43:34Guest:And it's about buying a horse from the kennel ration plant and getting it up into our dorm and down the hallway into the dorm area.

00:43:42Guest:in the dorm warden's bathroom.

00:43:44Guest:And they gave it a trank shot to calm it down, and it died from the trank shot.

00:43:48Guest:But it was over a weekend.

00:43:49Guest:So Rigamortis set in.

00:43:51Guest:So they had to call the kennel ration people to come saw the horse up to get it out.

00:43:56Guest:And the kennel ration people said, we sold that horse.

00:43:58Guest:To a kid here.

00:44:00Guest:And they pointed me out.

00:44:01Guest:And I got expelled.

00:44:03Guest:But actually, it happened to Ron Shuey.

00:44:04Guest:But I would tell the stories of what happened to me.

00:44:07Guest:And I told Doug that story.

00:44:09Guest:And, of course, we've all seen Animal House, right?

00:44:11Guest:Well, that was in before that was even written.

00:44:13Guest:Oh, okay.

00:44:14Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:15Guest:And I never saw a nickel.

00:44:18Guest:Who knew?

00:44:18Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:44:20Marc:So that's when the cocaine starts.

00:44:22Guest:That's when the cocaine starts.

00:44:23Guest:And that's 19...

00:44:25Guest:I guess that is 1976.

00:44:26Guest:Oh, my God.

00:44:29Guest:So before King of the Gypsies.

00:44:30Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:44:31Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:44:32Guest:But it was only, it was only, it was rare.

00:44:35Guest:I mean, I didn't do it all the time at all.

00:44:37Guest:I didn't have any money, for Christ's sake.

00:44:39Guest:And the people I was hanging with apparently didn't know about it yet.

00:44:44Guest:I mean, you know, Doug was very wealthy.

00:44:47Guest:Yeah.

00:44:47Guest:And he was a co-kid.

00:44:48Guest:Yeah.

00:44:49Marc:Yeah.

00:44:50Marc:And when does it become like a major component of the life?

00:44:55Guest:When I'm on tour doing press for King of the Gypsies in 1978.

00:44:58Guest:Yeah.

00:44:59Guest:In December of 78.

00:45:00Guest:Yeah.

00:45:01Guest:Yeah.

00:45:02Guest:But I stopped for a year after that.

00:45:05Guest:I never even saw it.

00:45:06Guest:Yeah.

00:45:07Guest:But then I, you know.

00:45:10Marc:Sure.

00:45:11Guest:But like what I don't understand has... But see, at that time, it was such a component in our society.

00:45:18Guest:Cocaine.

00:45:19Guest:Yeah.

00:45:19Guest:It was status.

00:45:20Guest:It was money.

00:45:22Guest:It was...

00:45:23Marc:relaxation it was hey cool hey who knew yeah it was it was yeah i mean it was it was a part of our society i just like because i you know i've been sober i don't know 25 years congratulations dude how are you doing i'm in good shape yeah yeah and you know that from coke the amount like were you were you working on blow no i can't work on look because i can't talk

00:45:47Marc:Oh, that's good.

00:45:47Guest:Because I couldn't understand with all the downtime on a set, you're going to have to have a pound of coke in the trailer just to... But you can't act if your central nervous system is all drugged out.

00:45:59Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:59Guest:You can't act.

00:46:00Guest:So you're able not to do that.

00:46:02Guest:Acting is like being married.

00:46:06Guest:It's very precious and it's very personal and it's only between you and that.

00:46:10Guest:Right.

00:46:10Guest:It's you and that.

00:46:11Guest:Right.

00:46:12Guest:And if you fuck it up, it's you who fucks it up.

00:46:14Guest:Right.

00:46:14Guest:You can't blame anybody for a fuck up in your performance.

00:46:17Guest:You must have had some bad days where you didn't get much sleep.

00:46:19Guest:Well, yeah, of course.

00:46:21Guest:But the work was always very precious.

00:46:24Guest:Right.

00:46:24Guest:And the work, I didn't snort and work.

00:46:27Guest:Right.

00:46:28Guest:That's impressive.

00:46:29Guest:Well, it's because I can't talk.

00:46:31Guest:Because I have trouble talking anyway.

00:46:34Guest:So, you know, if I do cocaine, I cannot talk, dude.

00:46:37Guest:It's horrible.

00:46:38Guest:You used to have a stutter.

00:46:39Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:46:39Guest:Yeah.

00:46:40Guest:Acting fixed it.

00:46:42Guest:Well, confidence is what eventually fixes it.

00:46:48Guest:Yeah.

00:46:48Guest:Because you stop loathing yourself enough to be able to speak.

00:46:52Guest:Right.

00:46:54Guest:But, yeah.

00:46:55Guest:Stuttering is...

00:46:57Guest:If you know anybody with a bad stutter, ask them who abused them.

00:47:02Guest:They might lie about it, but it's as simple as that.

00:47:05Guest:They've been hurt.

00:47:06Guest:They've been hurt physically and emotionally.

00:47:07Guest:They've been hurt bad.

00:47:09Guest:And you were hurt by your parents.

00:47:10Marc:Yeah.

00:47:10Guest:Yeah.

00:47:12Guest:Those two kids.

00:47:13Guest:Yeah.

00:47:14Marc:Yeah.

00:47:15Marc:I'm glad that you have some forgiveness there.

00:47:17Guest:Well, they were kids.

00:47:18Guest:And one of them was...

00:47:21Guest:Pompous and when I was scared.

00:47:23Marc:Yeah.

00:47:24Marc:Yeah.

00:47:24Marc:And when you, because it's an interesting turn because there's this idea and you talk about it in the book and there was moments where, you know, like I underlined things, this one, actors are pains in the ass.

00:47:38Marc:We're all a bunch of babies who want attention.

00:47:40Marc:That's what you said.

00:47:42Marc:And, but there were moments where there's definitely a moment where you feel that the public framed you in a way that,

00:47:50Marc:that you never quite recovered from after Star 80.

00:47:54Guest:Yeah.

00:47:55Guest:You know, that role was so hard to take on.

00:47:58Guest:And I remember the first time I read that script, I didn't like it.

00:48:00Guest:I'm thinking, what a bad movie.

00:48:02Guest:I thought, what an obvious everything.

00:48:04Guest:Everybody is so caricatured.

00:48:07Marc:That's how the script looked.

00:48:09Guest:Yeah, that's how it read to me.

00:48:10Guest:But it was Bob Fosse.

00:48:14Marc:Who you idolized.

00:48:15Guest:Oh, Bob Fosse and Hal Aspie were the men for me.

00:48:19Guest:They were the geniuses who inspired me to do and be and understand and want to be a part of and all of it.

00:48:24Guest:Those two guys.

00:48:27Guest:And so, okay, I'm going to go for this.

00:48:33Marc:The chapter on you and Fosse...

00:48:37Marc:You know, the time you spent with him and where that went, because he was out of his mind, too, on drugs.

00:48:43Marc:I don't want to say that.

00:48:44Marc:Well, no, I mean, not crazy, but, you know, it's clear.

00:48:47Guest:He was a methamphetamine.

00:48:49Marc:Yeah, jacked up.

00:48:50Marc:Yeah, he was.

00:48:51Marc:So there's a pace to that.

00:48:53Marc:But what I didn't really put together, and I wouldn't have unless I read the book, was that it became clear that he wanted you to be his surrogate as a character in this movie.

00:49:05Guest:Well, I was having trouble one day.

00:49:07Guest:I tell the story in the book.

00:49:08Guest:I was having trouble one day with a scene.

00:49:10Guest:I was in my underwear with a guitar in my lap, and I fucked up a song.

00:49:15Guest:I'm supposed to play this myself, and I fucked it up.

00:49:17Guest:So I said, cut.

00:49:19Guest:You don't say cut on a Fosse set unless you're Fosse.

00:49:22Guest:It's just not accepted.

00:49:23Guest:And you kind of understand that up front.

00:49:26Guest:He said, what are you doing?

00:49:27Guest:I said, I'm at a boo-boo.

00:49:29Guest:He said, goddammit, come here.

00:49:30Guest:And he walks across this huge soundstage of Zoetrope.

00:49:33Guest:And I follow him across.

00:49:34Guest:I'm barefoot in my underwear.

00:49:36Guest:It kind of feels weird.

00:49:37Guest:I'm following him across the downstage as the crew stands back and watches.

00:49:42Guest:And he gets me kind of alone.

00:49:43Guest:He says, look at me.

00:49:44Guest:I said, I'm looking at you.

00:49:45Guest:He said, look at me.

00:49:46Guest:I said, I'm looking at you, man.

00:49:48Guest:He goes, okay, you're playing me if I weren't successful.

00:49:52Guest:Do you understand?

00:49:54Guest:And I did.

00:49:55Guest:Yeah, yeah, at that moment.

00:49:57Guest:I did, yeah.

00:49:59Guest:And on the way back to set, I started watching how he walked.

00:50:03Guest:And I decided, you know what, I'll just play you.

00:50:06Guest:And I kind of did.

00:50:07Guest:Yeah.

00:50:08Marc:Yeah, I kind of did.

00:50:09Marc:But that gave the guy depth.

00:50:10Marc:I mean, you talk about that one scene that, you know, your concern was that it was one-dimensional.

00:50:16Marc:But the scene where he goes to the mansion and that interaction with Hef, where he's completely out of his league and he's almost embarrassed.

00:50:25Marc:And he's embarrassing.

00:50:27Marc:Yeah.

00:50:28Marc:And that gave that guy all the depth.

00:50:31Marc:Was that the key into it?

00:50:33Guest:That wasn't the key into it.

00:50:36Guest:That was a result from the key into it.

00:50:38Guest:What was the key into it?

00:50:39Guest:The key into it was...

00:50:44Guest:Fear.

00:50:45Guest:Right.

00:50:46Guest:Fear.

00:50:46Guest:Yeah.

00:50:47Guest:You have to understand almost every bad behavior is all rooted in fear.

00:50:53Marc:Uh-huh.

00:50:53Guest:And when you really come to terms with understanding that about yourself.

00:50:57Guest:Yeah.

00:50:57Guest:Then you can apply it to others who aren't like you.

00:51:00Guest:Uh-huh.

00:51:01Guest:But it takes a good leader who takes really good care of his team.

00:51:08Guest:And Fossey took good ass care of me.

00:51:10Guest:Yeah.

00:51:11Guest:And Fossey was kind to me.

00:51:14Guest:Bossy was.

00:51:16Marc:Yeah.

00:51:17Guest:He was very specific and gentle with me.

00:51:23Marc:It's a profoundly disturbing and amazing movie, that thing.

00:51:28Guest:It's the best docudrama ever made, and I rest my case.

00:51:32Marc:Yeah.

00:51:33Marc:And after you did that, I mean, you felt that the role affected you on set, too?

00:51:38Marc:You became consumed with it?

00:51:39Guest:Well, I became kind of self-righteous.

00:51:43Guest:Like, I became Paul a little bit.

00:51:45Guest:He thought he shed ice cream, Paul.

00:51:47Marc:Yeah, the character, yeah.

00:51:48Guest:Yeah, and, you know, as a man, I think he thought himself as very special.

00:51:53Marc:Yeah.

00:51:54Guest:And he was, in a way, he was very smart.

00:51:56Guest:I mean, he started Chippendales.

00:51:57Guest:Had he not killed her and killed himself, he would have been a very wealthy, successful man.

00:52:03Guest:Uh-huh.

00:52:03Guest:But he effed up because he let his jealousy...

00:52:07Guest:rule the day yeah and he did what he did which is unforgivable i mean god dog what he did man brutal what he did dude damn and you became sort of mildly obsessed with dorothy well uh there was a girl involved in playboy who got involved in the film her name was sis rundle and i saw her kind of as dorothy yeah

00:52:35Guest:And I kind of hated to say goodbye to Dorothy because I felt that I could have stopped myself, so I felt I could have stopped Paul.

00:52:45Guest:This is not the case.

00:52:47Guest:But I went through that a bit after the movie.

00:52:50Guest:Even now, I'm very...

00:52:51Guest:very moved by the fact that there's nothing I could have done about any of it.

00:52:56Guest:Yeah.

00:52:56Guest:But she gave me the false image of hope.

00:53:02Guest:And I kind of wanted to get that from her as a friendship.

00:53:07Guest:I think I just confused her, though.

00:53:09Guest:Yeah.

00:53:10Guest:And you went to the grave site.

00:53:13Guest:Yeah.

00:53:13Guest:Oh, man.

00:53:14Guest:Don't ever do that to yourself.

00:53:16Guest:No.

00:53:16Guest:Yeah, it's not worth it.

00:53:18Marc:You needed to break down, I guess.

00:53:20Guest:I guess.

00:53:21Guest:I don't know.

00:53:23Guest:Once again, I refer back to what I said about actors.

00:53:26Guest:You know, we're a bunch of effing babies.

00:53:28Guest:Yeah.

00:53:28Guest:And, I mean, we kind of have to be able to reach into shit that's not fun to go to, like babies do on a moment's notice.

00:53:39Guest:But, you know, it's unfortunate when...

00:53:44Guest:When you have to be an example, like, you know, I have grandchildren now.

00:53:49Guest:And like I was hanging out with a five-year-old the other day.

00:53:52Guest:Her name is Georgia.

00:53:53Guest:And she's explaining something to me.

00:53:56Guest:And she's explaining something to me as if I didn't know.

00:54:00Guest:And it was glorious.

00:54:03Guest:And I was being taught this thing.

00:54:05Guest:And I was accepting it very much.

00:54:07Guest:And she was learning it.

00:54:09Guest:actually better as she taught me.

00:54:11Guest:So it was a roundhouse thing.

00:54:13Guest:It was just glorious.

00:54:15Guest:And I realized I cannot be the selfish, self-concerned, self-interested, self-appointed interest of the day that I did as a young actor.

00:54:29Guest:I can't do that as an old man as a grandfather.

00:54:32Guest:It's not cool or acceptable or valuable or helpful.

00:54:36Guest:Yeah.

00:54:36Guest:And you want to be all those things.

00:54:38Marc:And when you went into Pope right after, I mean, you started shooting Pope of Greenwich Village right after?

00:54:44Guest:Yeah, well, that was a conscious choice because actually what happened was right after Star 80, Tennessee Williams died on us.

00:54:55Guest:So they're doing Tennessee Williams productions all over the country instantly.

00:54:59Guest:Yeah.

00:54:59Guest:And they offer me Tom Wingfield of Glassmanagerie in Hartford.

00:55:04Guest:Great stage, by the way.

00:55:06Guest:Three-quarter round.

00:55:06Guest:Really nice stage.

00:55:08Guest:Big house.

00:55:09Guest:So I say, yeah, I'll do that.

00:55:11Guest:So I go up there and I'm doing that play.

00:55:14Guest:And Gene Kirkwood and Howard Koch send me...

00:55:19Guest:The book and the script of the Pope of Greenwich Fellows.

00:55:21Guest:They say, read the book and the script, pick a part, Charlie or Pauly.

00:55:26Guest:I read the book, I read the script, I read the book again.

00:55:29Guest:I then read the monologue about him losing his thumb.

00:55:34Guest:That was the final thing.

00:55:36Guest:Yeah, boy.

00:55:36Guest:his part i took my thumb but but i gotta play it a certain way i can't play it like it's written which was how so i have to ask them so i call him up i say now this script is written he's a tough stupid thug he's a big guy it describes i'm not going to play that i'm going to drop weight i'm going to become a child i'm going to perm my hair so very italian

00:55:59Guest:And I'm going to play a guy who's a mama's boy who wants to be a tough thug.

00:56:03Guest:I'm not going to play a tough thug who wants to be a successful thug.

00:56:06Guest:I'm going to play a guy who wants to be a thug, blah, blah.

00:56:08Guest:They say, Eric, whatever you want to do, we're hiring you because it's you.

00:56:11Guest:So you're the actor we want in this movie.

00:56:14Guest:And we offered you whatever you want to play.

00:56:16Guest:You pick Pauly.

00:56:18Guest:Go.

00:56:18Guest:I said, OK.

00:56:19Guest:Now, this is January.

00:56:20Guest:February, March, April, May, June, July, August.

00:56:24Guest:The last week of August, we're pulled into New York for five days of rehearsal.

00:56:29Guest:We're gonna start the shoot in September.

00:56:32Guest:I show up, and the director says to me, after the third rehearsal,

00:56:37Guest:He asked me to stay after, so I said, why are you so skinny?

00:56:40Guest:He says, like, I'm doing something I shouldn't be.

00:56:43Guest:I said, because I want to be a walking spaz attack.

00:56:46Guest:He goes, hmm, why did you perm your hair?

00:56:48Guest:I said, same thing, walking spaz attack.

00:56:51Guest:He goes, what the fuck is a walking spaz attack?

00:56:54Guest:I said, you know, it's John Belushi, only skinny.

00:56:56Guest:He goes, that's not this guy.

00:56:57Guest:This guy's a tough thug, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:57:00Guest:I said, no, no, no, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:57:03Guest:Eight months ago, I told the producers what I was going to do.

00:57:07Guest:They said, whatever you do is fine with us.

00:57:09Guest:It's you.

00:57:10Guest:Go.

00:57:11Guest:So I went.

00:57:12Guest:This is where I came to.

00:57:14Guest:This is what I'm doing.

00:57:15Guest:He asked me to resign.

00:57:19Guest:Nah, I was going nowhere.

00:57:21Guest:I lived with this guy for eight months.

00:57:23Guest:I loved this person I had created.

00:57:26Guest:So I said, well, let me think about it.

00:57:29Guest:And I went up to Mickey's room.

00:57:30Guest:Mickey, the director asked me to quit.

00:57:33Guest:What?

00:57:34Guest:We called the producers.

00:57:38Guest:And they fired that guy.

00:57:39Guest:And they brought in Stuart Rosenberg.

00:57:41Guest:And so Sir Rosenberg directed a great movie.

00:57:44Marc:Yeah.

00:57:46Marc:Yeah.

00:57:46Marc:That's a good story.

00:57:47Guest:Did that answer your question?

00:57:48Marc:Yeah.

00:57:49Marc:Well, it was just a transition because there's a moment in the book where you're walking with Christopher Walken after Star 80 had been released, right?

00:57:58Marc:And you're getting weird looks from women from everybody because of that character.

00:58:02Guest:Yeah, they're crossing the street.

00:58:03Marc:Yeah.

00:58:04Marc:And you ask Walken, like, why are they doing that?

00:58:07Marc:And he said, because you're spooky, man.

00:58:10Yeah.

00:58:10Guest:Yeah, Walken was always real straight up with me, really.

00:58:13Guest:He is a cool cat.

00:58:17Guest:He's one of those guys that when he talks to you, you know that he's not wasting words.

00:58:24Marc:And so you were able to bounce back from that with Paulie.

00:58:29Guest:Well, that's why I chose Paul was because he was so different and so different physically and so different emotionally and so different educationally and so different ethnically.

00:58:42Guest:He was different.

00:58:43Guest:And I wanted to prove that I was not Paul Snyder.

00:58:47Guest:And I watched one Runaway Train last night.

00:58:50Guest:Good-ass movie.

00:58:51Guest:Yeah.

00:58:52Guest:But the problem with Runaway Train, it's actually two movies.

00:58:54Marc:Yeah.

00:58:54Guest:It's a control room movie.

00:58:55Guest:Yeah.

00:58:55Guest:And it's the on-the-train movie.

00:58:57Guest:That's true.

00:58:57Guest:And the on-the-train movie is a good-ass movie.

00:58:59Guest:Yeah.

00:59:00Guest:And working with Voight, was that, like, daunting?

00:59:03Guest:It was great.

00:59:04Guest:You know, he only weighed, like, 160 pounds or something ridiculous to be 60.

00:59:09Guest:He sits one or two.

00:59:10Guest:Yeah.

00:59:11Guest:And he wore a full bodysuit.

00:59:13Guest:No shit.

00:59:14Guest:Yeah, that's all fake.

00:59:15Guest:Oh, wow.

00:59:15Guest:He was a skinny-ass guy, and he wore this big-ass bodysuit, and he pulled that off.

00:59:20Guest:And he pulled that off, dude.

00:59:21Guest:Oh, dude, it was scary, man.

00:59:23Marc:I know.

00:59:23Marc:Yeah.

00:59:24Marc:But it's interesting that these characters that you've played in certainly those three big movies, there was always this dominant personality.

00:59:33Marc:Yeah.

00:59:33Marc:that you were up against, you know, and that you were sort of... They almost work as these emotional couples in a way.

00:59:41Marc:And it was kind of fascinating, man.

00:59:43Guest:Well, thank you.

00:59:43Guest:That's what they are.

00:59:44Guest:Yeah.

00:59:45Guest:I mean, they're men marriages.

00:59:48Guest:Yeah.

00:59:49Guest:And, yeah, and...

00:59:51Guest:Yeah, Voight was so cool to work with.

00:59:55Guest:I didn't know anything about his politics.

00:59:57Marc:Was it the same then?

00:59:58Guest:I don't know.

01:00:00Guest:I never got a hint.

01:00:01Marc:I always felt like that was a shift he made.

01:00:03Marc:But what do I know?

01:00:04Guest:I never got a hint of anything.

01:00:06Guest:So I have no idea.

01:00:08Guest:I just fell in love with the guy as a working comrade.

01:00:11Guest:He was my buddy.

01:00:12Guest:And we knocked it out together.

01:00:14Guest:And I knew we always could and always would.

01:00:17Guest:And I could depend on that.

01:00:19Guest:And I've only had that a couple of times in my career, like probably half a dozen.

01:00:23Guest:Yeah.

01:00:23Guest:And it's been where you know the other actor.

01:00:26Guest:I'm going to throw this ball hard because he's going to hit it.

01:00:28Guest:Watch this.

01:00:29Guest:And you throw as hard as you can.

01:00:32Guest:Bam, they hit it.

01:00:32Guest:I told you guys.

01:00:33Guest:Did I tell you?

01:00:34Guest:It's like that's the feeling.

01:00:36Guest:Yeah.

01:00:37Guest:That's amazing, yeah.

01:00:39Guest:And it makes you cry in reflection because you remember, oh, yeah, and the adrenal glands cuts loose because of that satisfactional feeling you have when that happens.

01:00:50Marc:Of that moment.

01:00:51Marc:And that's the marriage.

01:00:52Marc:Right.

01:00:53Marc:And DeMornay was great, too.

01:00:54Marc:I mean, she showed up for work.

01:00:56Guest:Yeah, and bless her heart.

01:00:57Guest:She had it hard because she showed up the first day looking good.

01:01:01Guest:And the director, Andrei Konchalowski, said, you look beautiful.

01:01:05Guest:No, no, no.

01:01:07Guest:And he has a big fit, made her cry in terms of the looks.

01:01:10Marc:It's so funny because you work with these guys, Dino de De Laurentiis, and were the other guys Globus and Gobulus and Globus from canon films?

01:01:18Marc:Those characters don't exist anymore in Hollywood, right?

01:01:21Guest:Well, they're gone for a minute.

01:01:23Guest:They'll be back.

01:01:24Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:01:25Guest:You know, they'll be back in some form.

01:01:26Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:28Marc:And now, what was the arc?

01:01:30Marc:I had Trejo in here.

01:01:32Marc:What a cat.

01:01:34Marc:Love that guy.

01:01:34Marc:Yeah.

01:01:35Marc:I mean, you know, you changed his life.

01:01:38Guest:Well, he deserved it, dude.

01:01:40Guest:Yeah?

01:01:40Guest:He's a cool-ass cat.

01:01:42Guest:Yeah, it was really funny.

01:01:43Guest:Our first meeting.

01:01:44Guest:Eddie Bunker, who wrote, who took the Kurosawa script of 300 pages and made it 92 pages.

01:01:50Guest:For Runaway Train.

01:01:51Guest:Right, Runaway Train.

01:01:52Guest:Eddie Bunker says to me, hey, Eric, you got this boxing scene coming up.

01:01:57Guest:I want you to pick that Mexican with a tattoo.

01:02:00Guest:Okay.

01:02:00Guest:I said, okay.

01:02:01Guest:Cool, dude.

01:02:02Guest:I'll pick the Mexican with a tattoo.

01:02:04Guest:Yeah.

01:02:05Guest:They line them up.

01:02:06Guest:It's like 20 or 30 of them.

01:02:07Guest:They line them all up.

01:02:08Guest:They're all Mexican.

01:02:09Guest:They all have freaking tattoos.

01:02:11Guest:Yeah.

01:02:11Guest:So I say, hold the page.

01:02:13Guest:I go find Eddie.

01:02:14Guest:It takes like half an hour.

01:02:15Guest:I track Eddie down.

01:02:16Guest:Oh, yeah, there you are.

01:02:17Guest:Come here, dude.

01:02:18Guest:I got all these guys waiting for me.

01:02:19Guest:I got to pick a boxer for the boxing scene.

01:02:22Guest:And you told me to pick your friend, and you described him, but they're all that description.

01:02:26Guest:Help me.

01:02:26Guest:Come with me.

01:02:27Guest:Come with me now, because I got to pick this guy.

01:02:29Guest:So he comes with me, and we see Danny Trejo, and he says, that's the guy.

01:02:35Guest:And I pick him, and he starts to bawl.

01:02:38Guest:He starts to cry right there, because he got picked.

01:02:41Guest:And we go talk to the director then, and the director, this is who I pick for the boxing scene, he's my size, this and that, blah, blah, blah.

01:02:51Guest:He goes, okay, now Danny, we may have to really hit you in the head for some time.

01:02:56Guest:slow motion shots where you have to hit you and watch someone and watch sweat bounce off blah blah are you okay with that and danny said for what they pay in me they can hit me all day and uh so so we we uh so so so he made friends and he made me look good because i was not a boxer yeah and he made me look good and he uh taught me some stuff and we had a great time together and we bonded and we made friends and since then we've been in i don't know half dozen movies together yeah something like that yeah yeah

01:03:25Guest:He's my pal.

01:03:26Marc:Did he help you clean up a little?

01:03:30Guest:Danny... Danny...

01:03:35Guest:Danny, if you're a user, will tell you stories that will make you want to clean up.

01:03:43Guest:Yeah.

01:03:44Guest:And yes, he did that for me.

01:03:46Marc:Yeah.

01:03:47Marc:That's his wife of service.

01:03:48Guest:Yeah.

01:03:49Guest:That's his service.

01:03:50Guest:He's a great guy.

01:03:51Guest:He's a wonderful human being.

01:03:52Guest:Yeah.

01:03:53Guest:And he's a damn good actor, dude.

01:03:55Guest:Dude, totally.

01:03:55Marc:I love watching his work.

01:03:56Marc:I did a show for IFC, and I had him on.

01:04:02Marc:I had him on an episode.

01:04:03Marc:It was one of the funniest moments.

01:04:05Marc:Because, you know, he had a lot of lines.

01:04:09Marc:Like, I was playing a guy who was sober, and he was going to be my sponsee.

01:04:13Marc:And he didn't love that, right?

01:04:16Marc:And he's got allergies that day, and we're in a car, and the lines aren't coming.

01:04:21Marc:There's a lot of lines.

01:04:21Marc:We've got cue cards taped up in the car.

01:04:25Marc:And at some point, he just breaks down.

01:04:26Marc:He goes, this is more lines than I've had in my last four movies, man.

01:04:30Marc:And then he says, they hire me for my face.

01:04:35Marc:That mug of his, yeah.

01:04:37Marc:It's the best.

01:04:38Marc:He's got the best mug in show business.

01:04:40Marc:Totally.

01:04:40Marc:I just watched Heat again recently.

01:04:42Marc:Yeah.

01:04:42Marc:It's great.

01:04:43Marc:Yeah, it is.

01:04:44Marc:So now, like, you've done a million movies, and you do differentiate in the book between, you know, being a star and being an actor.

01:04:51Marc:And there was a point where, in the book, you talk about, like, how it was never your goal to be a star and that you're an actor.

01:04:57Marc:Yeah.

01:04:57Guest:Yeah, but being a star is one of the most fun things in the whole world to ever want to be or ever become.

01:05:03Guest:And you were a star.

01:05:05Marc:You are a star.

01:05:05Guest:It's the coolest thing in the whole world.

01:05:07Guest:I don't knock being a star.

01:05:08Guest:I highly recommend it.

01:05:10Guest:And I love being one.

01:05:12Guest:Yeah.

01:05:12Guest:I have nothing against stardom whatsoever.

01:05:14Guest:Right.

01:05:15Guest:So don't get me wrong.

01:05:16Guest:I am not a martyr in stardom.

01:05:19Guest:Yes.

01:05:20Guest:But you are an actor.

01:05:21Guest:I'm an actor.

01:05:23Guest:I have a great time and I, and I do what they want me to do.

01:05:26Guest:Yeah.

01:05:27Guest:And, uh,

01:05:28Guest:And I have that equipment.

01:05:30Guest:I can do many things.

01:05:32Guest:Okay, you want that?

01:05:33Guest:I'll give you that.

01:05:34Marc:And how's it?

01:05:35Marc:McBride's great.

01:05:36Guest:Oh, McBride's so cool, man.

01:05:38Guest:He's so funny, dude.

01:05:39Guest:It's an overused and abused word, so it has no real meaning anymore.

01:05:42Guest:But he's a genius.

01:05:43Guest:Yeah.

01:05:44Guest:And he stands alone.

01:05:45Guest:Yeah.

01:05:46Guest:And he's just out of this world.

01:05:47Guest:I just wish they made Junior permanent and brought him back, at least now and again.

01:05:54Marc:How did that offer come to you?

01:05:55Marc:Did you know about McRide before you got the gemstones?

01:05:58Guest:Of course I did.

01:05:59Guest:That's why I did what I did.

01:06:01Guest:I read, in fact, somebody told me, read the trades as a part that describes what you described your family's life.

01:06:08Guest:I said, what is a buddy of mine?

01:06:11Guest:And so I look, and I, yeah, wow, okay, I'll do this.

01:06:15Guest:So I set up this whole little scene, crop-wise and background-wise and costume-wise, and I'll play my family, basically, for this audition.

01:06:23Guest:And it gets sent in.

01:06:25Guest:I send it in.

01:06:26Guest:I tell my wife, it is auditioning.

01:06:28Guest:They want to see it.

01:06:29Guest:She sees it.

01:06:30Guest:She corrects a couple things.

01:06:32Guest:Let's do this and that for this part.

01:06:33Guest:So we did.

01:06:34Guest:She edits it.

01:06:36Guest:She's my boss, you know.

01:06:37Guest:She sends it in.

01:06:39Guest:Danny sees it and Danny casts me.

01:06:42Guest:Kind of right then and there.

01:06:43Guest:Oh, that's Eric Roberts from that thing?

01:06:44Guest:Oh, wow, he's really good.

01:06:45Guest:Okay, cast him.

01:06:46Guest:It was like that and it just happened.

01:06:48Guest:Yeah.

01:06:48Guest:Well...

01:06:50Guest:There's five of those guys who run that whole situation.

01:06:54Guest:Two of them are directors.

01:06:55Guest:They're the two directors.

01:06:57Guest:And one of the directors did not like my portrayal and was kind of vocal about it.

01:07:05Guest:Where I even heard some negative things about it on my first night of acting for him.

01:07:11Guest:He was...

01:07:12Guest:he was in video village and i wasn't but i could kind of overhear that he wasn't happy so so he he never liked you know my portrayal apparently at all and like danny cast me on a whim apparently because he was so shocked i was entertaining yeah and uh and uh so but i i had so much fun on the show it's my favorite

01:07:31Guest:role I've ever had.

01:07:32Guest:Really?

01:07:32Guest:Ever.

01:07:33Guest:In my career.

01:07:34Guest:And I got to work with John Goodman, who is one of the coolest cats in the whole world as a co-star, because he's so on it and with it and kind and sweet and prepared, and he's never late.

01:07:44Guest:It's such a pleasure to know him.

01:07:45Guest:And he's normal.

01:07:48Guest:It was such a relief to have a normal person to work with.

01:07:52Guest:And he's not cute.

01:07:54Guest:He doesn't have tricks.

01:07:55Guest:He's just this incredible presence and actor.

01:07:59Guest:And I just had so much fun.

01:08:00Marc:And in terms of like drawing from your past, do you think this was the deepest dive you've done into that?

01:08:07Guest:Well, I played two people in this.

01:08:10Guest:I played my grandfather and my first cousin, Adam.

01:08:13Guest:Yeah.

01:08:13Guest:That's who is this personality, the junior.

01:08:16Guest:Right.

01:08:16Guest:The crappy part of him being my grandfather.

01:08:19Marc:Right.

01:08:19Guest:And the sweet part being my cousin.

01:08:20Guest:Right.

01:08:21Guest:And I play them both completely and I meld them into one guy.

01:08:25Guest:Yeah.

01:08:26Guest:And I've never had a chance to ever do that before.

01:08:28Guest:So I'm so proud that I did because I didn't like my grandfather.

01:08:32Guest:Right.

01:08:33Guest:But I admired his presence.

01:08:35Guest:Yeah.

01:08:36Guest:And I love my cousin.

01:08:38Guest:Yeah.

01:08:39Guest:And I admire his whole life.

01:08:41Guest:He's a great cat.

01:08:42Guest:Yeah.

01:08:42Guest:And so the fact that I could do that and the fact that Danny appreciated it...

01:08:48Guest:It's a dream come true.

01:08:50Guest:And I also had so much fun.

01:08:51Guest:I've never had that much fun acting.

01:08:53Guest:Were you down in Carolina or wherever they are?

01:08:55Guest:No, it's a beautiful location.

01:08:57Guest:It's an island?

01:08:57Guest:In the freaking world, dude.

01:08:58Guest:Yeah, they're all, they got amazing.

01:09:01Marc:Where is it?

01:09:01Marc:Is it North Carolina?

01:09:02Marc:It's South Carolina.

01:09:02Marc:South Carolina, yeah.

01:09:03Marc:It's so beautiful, dude.

01:09:05Marc:Yeah.

01:09:06Marc:Yeah, I interviewed him years ago, and he's so great.

01:09:08Guest:He's such a neat person.

01:09:10Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:10Guest:And he's kind and sweet.

01:09:13Guest:And it's real.

01:09:15Marc:I just noticed something in you talking about that.

01:09:19Marc:In as much as actors leave part of themselves on the stage, this book and even this role, it really does give you a chance to sort of have a deeper understanding and exercise some of that past and those demons always, I imagine.

01:09:32Yeah.

01:09:32Guest:Well, dude, thank you.

01:09:33Guest:But I had the luxury every day.

01:09:36Guest:Yeah.

01:09:37Guest:And I do.

01:09:38Guest:And I also had the luxury that we get so many offers every day that I get to pick through and find parts.

01:09:46Guest:I would never be offered.

01:09:48Guest:Yeah.

01:09:48Guest:I'm never going to be offered this part again.

01:09:50Guest:I got to play it this week.

01:09:51Guest:You just love to work.

01:09:52Guest:Yeah, dude.

01:09:53Guest:I'm an actor.

01:09:54Guest:Yeah.

01:09:54Guest:And it's the best job on the planet.

01:09:56Guest:And I get to do it every single day.

01:09:58Guest:Yeah.

01:09:59Guest:And I really do treasure that.

01:10:01Yeah.

01:10:01Marc:And also you are like you're an actor, but you're a known presence.

01:10:07Marc:There's nobody like you.

01:10:08Marc:You're the one guy.

01:10:10Marc:So anytime you're in something, you're going to go like, holy shit, there's Eric Roberts.

01:10:15Marc:I'll take that.

01:10:16Marc:I'll take that.

01:10:17Marc:Thanks for talking to me, man.

01:10:18Marc:Thank you.

01:10:19Marc:Yeah.

01:10:24Marc:There you go.

01:10:26Marc:That guy, man.

01:10:27Marc:Full on.

01:10:29Marc:Eric Roberts.

01:10:30Marc:His memoir, Runaway Train, comes out tomorrow.

01:10:32Marc:Hang out for a minute.

01:10:36Marc:Folks, it was nine years ago this week that we aired one of the highlight moments of my life.

01:10:40Marc:It was the episode where I got to meet and interview one of my heroes, Keith Richards.

01:10:45Marc:I fanboyed, man.

01:10:46Marc:Well, this is like a – I'll get through the nerves in a minute, but it's a big deal to meet you because you're a big idol of mine.

01:10:53Marc:Now, do you – when you started playing and you guys started to sort of come into your own, do you remember the first idol of yours that you met?

01:11:02Guest:Oh, um –

01:11:06Guest:Little Richard.

01:11:07Guest:Really?

01:11:07Guest:Yeah.

01:11:08Guest:And Bo Diddley.

01:11:09Guest:Really?

01:11:10Guest:Yeah, because we suddenly, we were thrown onto this tour.

01:11:13Guest:I mean, before that, we'd been working clubs, you know.

01:11:16Guest:I mean, suddenly we had a record.

01:11:18Guest:Yeah.

01:11:19Guest:And we were thrown on this tour.

01:11:21Guest:with Little Richard, Bo Diddley, and the Everly Brothers.

01:11:25Guest:And so I suddenly met, you know, half of my... Childhood?

01:11:31Guest:Mentors.

01:11:32Guest:And I'm working with them, too, you know, which was an amazing education.

01:11:39Guest:I mean, that's a university for me.

01:11:42Guest:Did you talk to Bo?

01:11:44Guest:Did you ask him questions?

01:11:45Guest:Yeah, we were on the road for like three or four weeks.

01:11:48Guest:Really?

01:11:48Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:11:49Guest:I used to take care of Jerome Green was his maracas player.

01:11:53Guest:Uh-huh.

01:11:54Guest:And Jerome is a great lush.

01:11:57Guest:Yeah.

01:11:57Guest:And it was my job to get him out of the pub, to get him on stage.

01:12:03Guest:It's funny.

01:12:03Guest:I think those roles changed later in life.

01:12:06Marc:That was episode 693 from back in 2015, and you can listen to it for free right now in whatever podcast app you're using.

01:12:13Marc:If you want every episode of WTF ad-free, sign up for WTF+.

01:12:18Marc:Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF+.

01:12:24Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.

01:12:28Marc:And here's some familiar chords.

01:12:30Marc:Played with a 61 Les Paul Jr.

01:12:34Marc:single P90 into a, I think a 61 Fender Princeton.

01:12:40Marc:Nice.

01:12:40Marc:It's got a nice crunch to it.

01:12:43Marc:.

01:13:08guitar solo

01:13:55Yeah.

01:14:25Thank you.

01:15:08guitar solo

01:15:42Marc:Boomer lives.

01:15:43Marc:Monkey and LaFonda.

01:15:44Marc:Cat angels everywhere.

01:15:45Marc:All right.

01:15:47Marc:Feverish.