Episode 1560 - Wolfgang Van Halen
Guest:All right, let's do this.
Guest:How are you?
Guest:What the fuckers?
Guest:What the fuck buddies?
Guest:What the fuck Canadians?
Guest:How's it going?
Guest:I'm Mark Maron.
Guest:This is my podcast WTF.
Guest:Welcome to it.
Marc:What's happening with you today on the show?
Marc:I talked to Wolfgang Van Halen.
Marc:He is Eddie Van Halen and Valerie Bertinelli's son, and he's a fucking amazing musician.
Marc:I learned a lot about him.
Marc:Look, I knew about his dad because I remember, I guess, what year did that come out?
Marc:That first Van Halen record?
Guest:I don't know, man.
Guest:It must have been... I feel like I must have been a sophomore in high school, freshman or sophomore in high school.
Marc:I could do the math, but it was around there.
Marc:The reason I know...
Marc:I wasn't a senior is because I remember walking, I had to walk through the senior parking lot to the dirt lot where we could park.
Marc:And I just remember the windows of cars open, just playing Van Halen's eruption.
Marc:It was like, it was a seismic shift in, in the, in the cultural universe.
Marc:It just, everything changed and,
Marc:When that first Van Halen record came out and around that time, I remember like maybe a year later than, you know, Sultan's a swing came out.
Marc:There was a lot of things going on musically.
Marc:Like I remember like freshman year, there's a lot of foreigner around whatever was going on.
Marc:And, you know, there was some new wave stuff and I didn't really lock into the punk stuff, but there was no way to avoid Van Halen one.
Marc:It was everywhere.
Marc:The only other time I remember that happening is when I was in New York City.
Marc:I guess the early 90s when Nirvana's Nevermind came out.
Marc:And everywhere you went, it was there.
Marc:But that was the same when Van Halen won.
Marc:And I remember I went to see Van Halen on their first tour.
Marc:And I didn't see him.
Marc:I remember it's an odd thing.
Marc:I remember the opening band, I think, was called The Cats, if that's possible.
Marc:And I remember some kid that I didn't know that well that may be nervous.
Marc:He wasn't scary in a physical way, but he was a little tweaky.
Marc:And a little intense.
Marc:And I saw him.
Marc:I had good tickets because I think my dad knew the promoter or something.
Marc:And we were down the floor.
Marc:And that kid gave me a pipe.
Marc:I took a hit out of it.
Marc:And then I don't remember much of anything.
Marc:I think I ended up on the floor, which wasn't unusual in high school.
Marc:But I missed the entire Van Halen set.
Marc:So I wish I could say that I had my mind blown by Van Halen, but I didn't.
Marc:I had my mind turned off by something in a pipe and probably a mixture of alcohol and other drugs.
Marc:But nonetheless, I don't want to get off rambling about Van Halen because I'm talking to his son, and you can't avoid talking about that.
Marc:There's a new Behind the Music about Wolfgang and just about him dealing with his father's passing and their relationship, and it was a beautiful thing.
Marc:This is a solid kid, this kid, and an amazing musician.
Marc:His most recent record is called Mammoth 2.
Marc:He's on tour in the U.S.
Marc:and Canada in August.
Marc:And I just had a lovely conversation with him.
Marc:But a lot of it was about Eddie and what it's like to be Eddie's kid and what that means to fans, both for good and bad.
Marc:But I was just a solid guy.
Marc:And a solid musician.
Marc:So look, I am in Vancouver, and I was trying to get ready to do this talk.
Marc:And, you know, I just found myself rewatching a fucking reel scrolling.
Marc:I watched a reel of women pretending to fart in front of their partners like four or five times, like with some sort of straw device.
Marc:Four or five times I'm watching women fake fart.
Marc:in front of men for a reaction.
Marc:I'm not going to get that time back.
Marc:I've got a problem.
Marc:There's got to be some sort of recovery for this scrolling compulsion.
Marc:It's ridiculous.
Marc:I don't have any trouble locking back into reality.
Marc:So it's not like other drugs.
Marc:You know, it's not like, you know, I pull out of the phone and then I'm like, you know, I need an hour or two just to regroup.
Marc:I mean, I'm still and I'm very aware of this.
Marc:It's weird because I watch the phone and then you're in that world and it takes over your whole fucking brain.
Marc:And then you just you're out, shut it off, move away from it, close up the app.
Marc:And I'm back in the real world.
Marc:There's no big adjustment.
Marc:And I'm not I don't crave anything.
Marc:to get back into the phone, and I don't mind the real world, and I'm fully engaged in it, but once I get on the phone, I just start to do that thing, and I don't know.
Marc:I guess I need help.
Marc:I guess this is a cry for help.
Marc:It could be other drugs.
Marc:It's not.
Marc:There's some heavy fucking...
Marc:fentanyl casualties around here you know i guess it's probably fentanyl and meth but i i i can't stop i'm kind of fascinated morbidly and i always have been with the effects of drugs you know on the streets and obviously it's devastating it's sad but i mean this goes back to when i lived in new york on second between a and b
Marc:There was just the junkie parade.
Marc:There was a drug-dealing doorway next to where I was living.
Marc:I was sober then.
Marc:I think that was the first shot at being sober.
Marc:Was it, what, 88, 89?
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:So I think I was sober for the first time about a year.
Marc:And I remember moving down there and just seeing these
Marc:these fucking heroin zombies line up in the doorway next to where I lived, you know, waiting to get their fucking stuff, waiting for the fix.
Marc:And it was just a, it was so sad and disturbing.
Marc:And,
Marc:And I'd see it every fucking day.
Marc:Needles on the streets, people nodding out, little parades of junkies, some of them trying to get on the methadone.
Marc:And they'd walk in groups of two or three with this sort of weird heroin hobble and in and out of nodding off, tilting.
Marc:But the weird thing about it is, and I guess this is part of my brain that I always have to be aware of because this is what sobriety is based on, is that at some point after a year or so of looking at those sad cases, the shift from like that is so sad to like wonder what it's like.
Marc:I wonder what, you know, what is it that they would sacrifice their life and their dignity and their sense of self to maintain this fucking life?
Marc:What is it?
Marc:How, what is, how good is it that you, and obviously it's not, it's not about good necessarily.
Marc:It's an addiction, but you know, it was obviously what was making their life better.
Marc:worth living for i guess or maybe it was what they had to live for because of their disease or their addiction but at some point in time it must have felt pretty fucking good and it was that's the scary moment when you're a drug addict where you're like that's fucking that's fucking awful yeah okay all right i'll try it but this fentanyl thing
Marc:the thing that I'm noticing is that, look, when I was hanging around down there in the lower east side, there was a nod, you know, there was the nod is that you'd see these heroin junkies tilting, but they don't, they, it was just sort of like a quarter way down, you know, like a quarter way down, you know, usually, or, or quarter way back where they just be standing there in the fucking nod.
Marc:But the tilt was like, it was not, it was about quarter way.
Marc:And what I'm seeing on the streets here is like full tilt, man, you know, 90 degree angle to like all the way folded over, but still standing.
Marc:And I was thinking like, well, it must be some kind of effect that,
Marc:on the spine or something is happening in the nervous system, that that's the difference, you know, with this fentanyl stuff in terms of that, that tilt, that nod.
Marc:And then I saw an article about that, just addressing that full tilt nod of fentanyl.
Marc:It just said why, you know, the, whatever the headline was, why does fentanyl cause this, right?
Marc:And so I'm thinking like I'm going to read it and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to find out some science about this because I've been curious about it because I'm walking by a lot of these attics down here.
Marc:And I read it and the primary difference between the quarter tilt heroin nod and
Marc:And the full fold fentanyl nod is it's just that much better a drug.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:There's no science to it.
Marc:It's just twice as good.
Marc:So you get twice the fucking tilt.
Marc:Now, look, I know some of you can be sensitive about that.
Marc:Like, no, it's not good.
Marc:There's nothing good.
Marc:It's a joke.
Marc:Relax.
Marc:But that was the hard science behind it.
Marc:The reason why they're tilting all the way over is because the high is that much more intense.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I saw guys, I saw, look, it's easy game, I guess, you know, if you're kind of insensitive to make fun of drug addicts or houseless people.
Marc:And it's not really where I'm going with this.
Marc:Because there's some part of me that has, there's full empathy to it.
Marc:But there is a sort of comedy to drug addiction.
Marc:And I know this because I've spent a lot of time in meetings and, you know, God willing or the universe willing or themselves willing, if they are able to kick the stories you have about the human experience and the darkness of it in terms of humor are profound.
Marc:So I'm not just blatantly making fun, but I did see these two fentanyl addicts down here in,
Marc:on hasting street and they were fully fully tilted i mean like they're like like fully folded in half standing next to each other having a conversation probably about a very small amount of money or uh another corner but but but they were just doing that they were both down there folded in half chatting
Marc:So what that indicates to me also about this particular drug is that they think they're standing up.
Marc:This is just part of the thing, you know, because they don't go all the way down.
Marc:They're not laying down.
Marc:You know, they think they're functioning in the world.
Marc:It's a very sad thing, but also not unlike many sad things.
Marc:it's hilarious it's hilarious and i hope they get sober did i bookend that all right did i qualify that properly as to not make people upset with me trivializing or dismissing the horrors of drug addiction
Marc:Did I?
Marc:Folks, I'll be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater on Friday, September 20th.
Marc:Then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theater on Saturday, September 21st.
Marc:There's a lot of dates coming up towards the end of the year and into next year.
Marc:You can go to WTF pod slash tour for tickets and see all the latest updates to my dates.
Marc:There have been some to make room for this movie.
Marc:So tonight, Alejandro Escovido's in town.
Marc:here in Vancouver, and he's asked me if I'd play a couple tunes with him if I wanted to.
Marc:And of course I want to, and it's weird.
Marc:It's not weird that, but I'm still really not confident playing guitar with people.
Marc:I get profoundly nervous, and it reminds me, because the other night I did a set down at the Comedy Underground.
Marc:I was talking to these comics.
Marc:There's a lot of amateur comics that come through these rooms, and they're trying stuff out, but most of these comic-run rooms are people that are pretty...
Marc:They haven't been in the game long and they're trying to figure it out.
Marc:And I'm talking to some guys that have been doing it like six months to a year.
Marc:They're asking me questions and whatever.
Marc:But just talking to them about that first five minutes that you have, that first five to eight minutes that you have ever as a comic and how you lock into that and the kind of panic you experience.
Marc:for sometimes weeks on end just to get ready to do one spot or two spots, the thinking about it all week, the nervousness, and all you got are those six jokes, seven jokes, eight jokes, and you just hang on to them because you're just trying to figure out how to stand up there and do them.
Marc:But the nervousness, for me, used to consume my brain.
Marc:I would have an open mic to do, and I'd have like four or five minutes of stuff, maybe eight, and the entire week was fucked because all I'm doing is thinking about that.
Marc:And I told one of those guys the other night, I'm like, I am so glad I don't have that anymore.
Marc:I mean, I have nervousness about other things, but I will tell you, though, when I got to play guitar at a thing, and that's with a band, you're not even up there by yourself.
Marc:I mean, God forbid you...
Marc:Well, you're going to fuck up.
Marc:I'm going to fuck up.
Marc:But you got a whole band there.
Marc:You're not going to sink the whole ship for fuck's sake.
Marc:But Jesus Christ, I'm consumed with nervousness.
Marc:I'm working on these goddamn songs.
Marc:There's nothing easy about it.
Marc:I want to have a good time, but I'm so nervous about playing well that I can't.
Marc:And I wonder if that's like most things in my life.
Marc:I'm so nervous about doing it well that I'm missing the whole enjoy the experience part.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:Might have just come on something there.
Marc:I might have just had a realization there.
Marc:The songs are Beast of Burden and Like a Hurricane.
Marc:I don't know either of them, but I learned them and hopefully it'll stick.
Marc:But I do know one thing about me.
Marc:If I got to play guitar in front of people with other people, I'm going to choke a little bit.
Marc:I'm going to fuck up something and hopefully get back on it.
Marc:Man, I one time choked with Jimmy Vivino at a gig on Going, Going Gone, the Dylan tune, and it's a song I played before, and I fucked it up, and I had a hard time finding my way back, and it was so embarrassing because it's like you've got a three-minute song.
Marc:All you've got to do is get through the song.
Marc:I mean, it's not a challenge, but that is what you're supposed to do when you're playing a song with a band.
Marc:And you fuck it up, then it's like you just... What did you fucking do?
Marc:It's three minutes, dude.
Marc:You couldn't... Just pay attention.
Marc:Anyway, see, this is how I beat the shit out of myself.
Marc:This is my process.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So...
Marc:Wolfgang Van Halen.
Marc:Very exciting.
Marc:I didn't know what to think or what to make.
Marc:I watched the Behind the Music.
Marc:I listened to his music.
Marc:I really listened to some of his old man's music.
Marc:And it was fun, man.
Marc:It was fun to do that.
Marc:You can watch that Behind the Music on Paramount+.
Marc:He's also doing a stadium tour throughout August in the U.S.
Marc:and Canada.
Marc:Go to mammothwvh.com for tour dates and tickets.
Marc:And this is me talking to...
Marc:Wolfgang Van Halen.
Marc:You're just back.
Guest:Yeah, I just got back.
Guest:Like when?
Guest:Friday.
Guest:Friday.
Guest:Wait, no.
Guest:What day is it?
Guest:Today's Sunday.
Guest:I got back yesterday.
Marc:Yesterday from Munich.
Marc:Munich?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So you all fucked up.
Guest:I'm very fucked up.
Yeah.
Guest:I was more fucked up there.
Guest:I got some sleep when I got back.
Guest:But flying out to... Basically, I think I spent more time in the air than I did there.
Marc:You just went for one show?
Marc:Yeah, we were opening for Metallica in Munich.
Marc:So all you guys just went out there for one?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because it was that important?
Guest:I opened for Metallica, yeah, for sure.
Guest:But...
Guest:I think, you know, the way they tour, they have this very unique schedule.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where it's two shows a week.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they have different openers for each.
Marc:Oh, I see.
Guest:So that you weren't just popping in on one gig and they were going night to night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it's that was the one we opened on that one.
Guest:And then they did a show two days later in the same place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who opened that one?
Guest:I believe if it's the same as last year, it was...
Guest:Ice Nine kills.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're sitting here pressing your brain.
Marc:I'm like, I'm not going to.
Marc:It's not going to make.
Marc:I was trying to think.
Marc:It's so weird because I was like all of a sudden doing this research because I saw your dad and I'm sure you get this all the time from guys my age.
Marc:But I was trying to track it because it was not a great experience for me.
Marc:It was in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where I grew up.
Marc:It must have been the second tour.
Marc:And all I remember is some creepy guy who went to high school with me saying, you want to hit a hash.
Marc:And I took it and I blacked out the entire fucking... I didn't see Van Halen.
Marc:And I kind of remember some band called The Cats opened for them.
Marc:And I tried to validate that.
Marc:And then for a minute there, I couldn't find that the tour even existed.
Marc:I was like, I know I was there.
Marc:So your body was there, but you weren't.
Marc:Yeah, no, no.
Marc:I missed the whole thing.
Marc:It would probably have been a good show.
Yeah.
Marc:It's probably going to be a great show.
Marc:But I remember that guy's face exactly.
Marc:The guy with the fucking pipe.
Marc:I remember that guy.
Marc:That's unfortunate.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't think it worked out for that guy.
Marc:I'm doing okay.
Marc:But I'm sorry I missed Van Halen.
Marc:So do you know those guys in Metallica pretty well?
Guest:I mean, I had met James once in 2015 briefly, and then I met Lars at the Taylor Hawkins tribute show in London.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we sort of hit it off there, and then we got the ask.
Guest:But for them, I mean, like a couple months later.
Marc:Oh, from that gig?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's where you did the Hawkins tribute?
Guest:I did the LA one, too.
Guest:That was the first one, the LA one.
Guest:The UK was the first one.
Guest:Oh, that was the one that was broadcast in the L.A.
Guest:one was just the sort of party.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Party.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that was the one that was broadcast because I watched, you know, the behind the music thing.
Mm hmm.
Marc:And that to me, what you were going through leading up to that show, I was like, that's fucked up.
Marc:Because it was like your personal struggle.
Marc:No one else was thinking like, if he doesn't pull this off, he's never going to get out from under these fucking idiots that will leave him alone.
Marc:But you were like, this is it, man.
Guest:This is it.
Marc:It was so specific.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:If I fucked that up, I would have wanted to die.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For sure.
Marc:But, I mean, what was going on?
Marc:I mean, how long had that been going on for, the trolling?
Marc:Oh, my whole life.
Marc:Since before social media.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Since you started playing publicly?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:No matter what band?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I had a little band in middle school, but we never played shows.
Marc:They didn't talk with you in middle school?
Marc:There's no one in middle school going, nah, this guy, his dad's good.
Marc:But it started with what band?
Marc:Playing in Van Halen.
Marc:Oh, but not before that?
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:So what was it, just constant?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, from a neutral standpoint, I completely understand.
Marc:I guess, but I got into it with trolls this morning.
Marc:And what you don't realize...
Marc:When you're engaging, which you should never do.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I've taken a big step back and it's done wonders for my mental health.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Because there's part of your brain that's like the entire internet.
Marc:And it's like, no, it's seven guys.
Guest:It's the vocal majority.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But sometimes it's literally a group of 15 dudes.
Marc:People who just revel in it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's their hobby.
Marc:is to deliver the goods.
Marc:I engaged this morning, hadn't in like two years.
Marc:And it was like, I was like, why the fuck am I here now?
Marc:Yeah, then that just weighs on you all day and it's just fucking pointless.
Marc:It's corrosive.
Marc:But like, but you know, the thing is, it's like when you engage, you're like, I got this one.
Guest:And sometimes it works out.
Guest:Sometimes it works out very well.
Guest:But then other times it's like, ah, fuck, I got all, we both got mud on us and now I'm like, what the fuck?
Marc:Yeah, and they keep last wording you.
Marc:And you can't, you know, you can't, it's, even if you're just, the worst part is, is you're like, you only have to be straight with this guy.
Marc:You know, look, man, I understand what you're saying.
Guest:We're just people, man.
Guest:Like, let's just, let's just get through this.
Marc:Like, you don't know me, I don't know you.
Marc:Yeah, you suck.
Guest:You can't, you can't win.
Guest:It's impossible.
Guest:It's impossible.
Marc:But, I mean, how did it affect, like, how engaged with it were you when that went down?
Marc:Were you obsessed with, like, just all?
Guest:No, not obsessed.
Guest:In fact, I tried to avoid it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think.
Guest:Because it was only in really dedicated spaces back in the day, obviously.
Guest:Like, there's.
Guest:What are we talking?
Guest:2006?
Guest:2006, 2007.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Like all the dedicated like VH, you know, message board.
Guest:I mean, do people even use message boards anymore?
Guest:You know, stuff like that, like dedicated websites where it's like, okay, just make sure I avoid those.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But it was enough for you because, I mean, you were playing well.
Guest:Yeah, I was just having a good time enjoying, you know, my newly sober dad and jamming with my family and having a wonderful time.
Guest:And it was just this wonderful, happy, joyous thing until it went public.
Guest:And then it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I can see why people would want to hate me.
Marc:But it was like, were they crying about Mike?
Guest:Yeah, that.
Guest:And I think that's not something I, you know, that's between my dad and him.
Guest:I was just there to kind of...
Guest:make sure my dad stayed on the sober path that he was on.
Guest:And me being there for him and just kind of keeping the train moving was my full intent.
Guest:I would make the set lists and everything.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I started putting in B-sides that I don't think Van Halen ever played back in the day.
Guest:Just keep them engaged?
Guest:Yeah, I just wanted to give the fans something because it's like, why can't we just make music and have a good time doing it?
Marc:Yeah, did you play from all the records?
Marc:I mean, all the Roth albums, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And he was back in for a while?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, for the time that I was in, so the 12 years that I was a member, yeah.
Marc:I interviewed him, man.
Marc:How was that?
Marc:Well, you know, you got to keep him focused.
Guest:He likes to go all over the place.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was like, and I kind of knew that right from the beginning.
Marc:And I would just keep going.
Marc:He's got a strap in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I kept going back.
Marc:I kept trying to hold him.
Marc:Good on you.
Guest:Good on you.
Marc:People were impressed.
Marc:They're like, dude, I never heard an interview like that.
Marc:You know, it made sense.
Marc:He told... The weird thing about him is I knew his...
Marc:Like his uncle used to hang out in the comedy club.
Marc:It was a comedy manager, Manny Roth.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He, uh, a cafe.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And he used to hang around the village gate and that part of the neighborhood when he was old, he must've been in his eighties.
Marc:He was wearing his little, uh, scarf and he had a, like a young, hot Asian wife and like, you know, and he was a real showman.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Cause when I, when he, I was talking to somebody about this this morning, cause I told him I was talking to you.
Marc:It's like, you know, he's,
Marc:David Lee Roth is a song and dance man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's all vaudeville.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's his thing.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you guys get along?
Guest:Not really.
Guest:At least as of recently, I thought we were on good terms and he actually made a couple YouTube videos about me, about how much he doesn't like me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which was like, okay, cool, man.
Guest:What was his justification?
Guest:His... He has a...
Guest:He basically just said a bunch of stuff that was true to him, I guess.
Guest:It doesn't matter if it's not true because the people that are going to listen to it will believe it and use it to hate me anyway.
Guest:So you just got to move forward.
Guest:What the fuck are these guys?
Marc:I just like for the show tomorrow that I'm putting up tomorrow, I just went off on this weird.
Marc:It's like do something with your life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How is this your fucking hobby?
Marc:And why are these guys like, you know, these old guys, it's just like, just shut up already.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, like, I'm noticing it more now.
Marc:Like, somebody's like, oh, yeah, on that movie, we didn't get along.
Marc:It's like, why now?
Marc:That was 30 years ago.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Guest:They want, they need attention.
Guest:I think the big thing, one of the bigger things is, is that my dad isn't around anymore.
Guest:So I think he just went for what's still there to kind of point at.
Guest:Were they having difficulties on that too?
Guest:Always.
Guest:I mean, throughout their history, I think, absolutely.
Guest:I don't know what it is with 80s bands.
Guest:There's always fucking something.
Guest:I've kind of used it as my own...
Guest:just like, I don't want this to happen.
Guest:So it's like for my band, it's like, why can't we just have a good time and just be happy and make music?
Guest:Like, is it that fucking difficult?
Marc:You never quite understand what it is.
Marc:And, but you know, it is one of those things where when you start out as kids and you've paid all your dues together, there's just no way at some point you're going to not be like, just shut the fuck up.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's just like that.
Guest:I talked to Geezer Butler.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:Yeah, he's a wonderful, friendly man.
Guest:Do you have that book?
Guest:I do not have that on me.
Guest:No, I'll give it to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, dude, I'd love it.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:I don't always read what comes, but I didn't know a lot about Sabbath.
Marc:And it's all there, dude.
Marc:It's fascinating.
Marc:But what broke them apart was management and weirdness and bullshit.
Marc:Bullshit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Bullshit.
Marc:But all your guys seem like good guys.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But the bullshit happens and there you go.
Marc:And you got to get past it.
Marc:Because I guess if you have musical differences, the possibility of those escalating into personal differences... I think the really tough thing with Van Halen is that my dad and my uncle...
Guest:never talked about it.
Guest:They just pushed forward and kept doing what they were doing.
Guest:I think that left room for interpretation or one side to be loud about it, to have the only truth be out there.
Guest:And that's the only thing that people end up believing.
Guest:And when that's not necessarily the case.
Marc:I didn't even know until I watched the video.
Marc:And granted, I haven't kept up with Van Halen throughout all of it.
Marc:I mean, they...
Marc:I was probably in 10th grade when that first album came out.
Marc:Was that 78?
Marc:78, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I'm in 10th grade, and all I knew is that the world had changed somehow.
Marc:Because you could drive at 15 in Albuquerque, and there was the senior parking lot.
Marc:And every car is just like an eruption.
Marc:That's all you heard.
Marc:And people were like, what is happening?
Marc:Because the day before, it was Foreigner.
Guest:And then an eruption happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then it happened.
Marc:So I don't know the whole history, but a lot of it, when it was reported that your dad died of cancer, that was that.
Marc:But it was a long struggle with a lot of different illnesses.
Yeah.
Marc:You know, including addiction.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so, like, you know, the way you described, you know, the end was it was not, you know, it was not cut and dry.
Marc:It was a real struggle.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was the hardest thing I've ever been through.
Marc:I can't imagine.
Marc:And I'm sorry for your loss.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:It's fucking terrible.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:But I'll tell you, man, like, you know, I watched that...
Marc:I watched you do that thing at the Hawkins tribute, you know, in the documentary.
Marc:But then I go in my house, I'm like, I gotta find it.
Marc:You know, I gotta, because I knew what that guy was going through.
Marc:It's a lot on the line that no one knew about.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And did you know you were in the pocket right away?
Guest:I think once it was over.
Guest:Actually, I think you can almost pinpoint it.
Guest:Once I get done with the solo on Hot for Teacher, which is the second song, I think Grohl and I, during the verse, we just kind of lean up on each other's foreheads and just kind of wait for it.
Guest:And in that moment, I was like...
Guest:Like I can now enjoy the fact that I'm fucking playing with Dave Grohl and Justin Hawkins and Josh Freeze.
Guest:And it was over.
Guest:I did it.
Guest:I pulled it off.
Marc:And did you see results?
Marc:In what way?
Marc:Did the shit talk stop a little bit or by that point you just quit looking at it?
Guest:Yeah, I think it's always going to be there.
Guest:I think because it's irrational.
Guest:It's just at a certain point, the thing that angers the people who hate me is that I exist.
Guest:Just sharing blood with my father is enough to upset people.
Guest:But yeah, I think a lot of people finally gave me credit.
Guest:And then there was a whole other bunch of people that were like, there's no way.
Guest:It was prerecorded or something.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:The tracks.
Guest:That's so fucking horrendous.
Guest:I mean, they said that when the Van Halen album I played on came out, everybody was like, oh, Ed must have played the bass and stuff like that.
Guest:What?
Guest:It's a fucking nightmare, dude.
Guest:But if anything, you take that as a compliment because you know the truth.
Guest:I know I did it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so if it's to them so unbelievable that it must be tracked, it's like, damn, I must have done a good job.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a good way to spin it.
Marc:And Grohl is, like, as time goes on, I interviewed him years ago, but as time goes on, you're like, this guy's a great guy.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:I mean, like, you watch those videos.
Guest:You know why?
Guest:He's not an 80s guy.
Guest:Is that it?
Guest:The 80s guy is where all the drama and the bullshit are.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, you know, I think everybody just learned how to grow up as time went on.
Marc:Well, he had a pretty difficult front man for quite a few years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, but I guess it was different.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The 80s were like because everybody was so gunning for this hugeness.
Marc:And a lot of people got it.
Marc:And then a lot of people just disappeared.
Marc:And now they're back.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:But he seems like a genuinely nice guy.
Marc:He is.
Guest:Like when he pulls his fans out and lets them play.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everything that you would imagine him to be, he is in the best way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like I listened to that fucking solo you did on Take a Bow.
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:That's awesome, man.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:Because like, you know, obviously, you know, you have flourishes of what you grew up with, but the phrasing is totally different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think, I think people are sitting there just kind of waiting for me to like outdo my dad in some way.
Guest:And it's like, that's,
Guest:impossible I'm not I am not him you know right I'm doing my own thing yeah and if anything I'm outdoing him in that way because he wouldn't be able to play all the instruments on something that's right yeah I'm a better drummer than he was but nobody says that but you know but that guitar so it was crazy it's really good it's got a lot of elements there's even like a almost a proggy moment in there yeah that was that was a really fun uh that was I really felt like an evolution from the first album the first album how so
Guest:I think I was so focused on the first album on just kind of discovering the identity of what I offered as my own songwriter.
Guest:But by the second album, I was ready to just kind of stretch a bit more and be more comfortable.
Guest:And I think that's where that solo came from.
Marc:And where do you like when you listen to your music or when you're kind of like, because you have your own sound and it's not, you know, your references are not Van Halen.
Marc:Mm-mm.
Guest:I mean, that's in me.
Guest:That's the thing when anybody asks, like, oh, who's your favorite guitar player?
Guest:Who's your favorite drummer?
Guest:I never mention my dad or Al because it's so obvious.
Guest:It's in my blood.
Guest:It's not even worth mentioning.
Marc:Outside of my family?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Well, who are they?
Guest:It's kind of all over the place, really.
Guest:I think a big, especially actually recently, there's a guitar player who I just toured with, which is really cool.
Guest:He has a band called Intervals.
Guest:Aaron Marshall is his name.
Guest:I think he's just an amazing guitar player and he inspires me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was always a big fan of Paul Gilbert back in the day.
Guest:I thought he was one of the- Who's that guy?
Guest:He's just one of the Shradder guys from the 80s.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:He was in Mr. Big and Racer X. He was one of those guys that sort of came a little bit after dad that I think took it in an interesting direction instead of just tried to.
Guest:Because in a way, dad kind of ruined the musical landscape because instead of everybody wanting to find out who they are, they just wanted to be that.
Guest:Yeah, how do you do that?
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But also, like, it feels like your structure of, you know, like, it feels like that Van Halen was a pretty hook-driven band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think people focus on the guitar playing, but overall it was the fact that Dad is a great songwriter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's what I shoot for, too.
Guest:It's not about flashy stuff.
Guest:Like, there's stuff in there if you want to geek on it.
Guest:But you're like a riff guy.
Guest:Yeah, there's riffs, and I focus on overall the creation of the song because I'm playing everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Still?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then on the road, you just take the band?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I got my live guys.
Guest:That helps.
Guest:But on the records, you play everything?
Guest:100%.
Guest:Every single thing you hear is just me.
Guest:Is that just a control freak thing?
Guest:I think people want to turn it into that, but I was just really inspired by the way Grohl did the first Foo Fighters album.
Guest:And since I could play everything, I wanted to see if I could do it.
Guest:And with the first album, I found out I could.
Guest:And I had such a good time that it's just like, man, let's just keep it going.
Marc:And you can do your own pace.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:You don't have to yell at anyone to do it.
Guest:If anything, it's like reverse control freakism because it's just a way to deter the bullshit after what I've seen through the years with dad.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:Why involve anybody else?
Guest:Why involve anybody else?
Guest:Because it'll just get filled with drama and bullshit.
Marc:Rock and roll drama.
Guest:And I'm having fun with it.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Now, your uncle's not in the doc.
Marc:Are you guys all right?
Marc:No.
Guest:Yeah, we're great.
Guest:He's incredibly private.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I think that's another portion of why the Van Halen truth is always decided by other people outside of the family, because he never...
Guest:uh feels it worthy to speak up because it's just not something he's interested in he's a very private guy don't want to be dragged into it yeah and especially you know with dad not here yeah there's there's just no desire really to yeah to drag it up yeah and uh he's still around yeah yeah yeah he's he's uh he's he actually just just wrote a book that's that's going to be coming out soon that's
Guest:really cool because you know he's never really spoken on anything much and for him to finally have this opportunity a memoir yeah no shit uh and you kind of just like the opportunity i had with the behind the music like finally getting our opportunity to tell our own truth from our own side is really nice
Marc:Well, I think the undercurrent of, you know, what makes the behind the music so interesting and different than the rest, it's not like this sort of the arc is not of self-destruction.
Marc:Your dad had a degree, but it's you.
Marc:And, you know, what comes through and what makes it a kind of uplifting story is that despite whatever chaos was going on with him personally or even your parents is that, you know, it wasn't directed at you.
Marc:No.
Marc:Ever.
Guest:No.
Marc:Like, I mean, Jesus, Valerie Bertinelli, your mom, you know, just talks about, you know, how much your dad loved you and how much she loved you.
Marc:You're right out of the gate.
Marc:You're like, oh, my God.
Marc:This is such a good kid.
Marc:Look at him.
He's doing everything.
Marc:Thank God there was never a point where you're like, fuck you guys.
Guest:I'm out of here.
Guest:I think that's why it's so tough for me to be okay now because his love was such a huge part of my life that now without him here, there's just this black hole in me that just can never be erased.
Guest:And it's just me trying to figure out how to hold it.
Guest:The grief.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And how are you doing with that?
Marc:How long has it been now?
Marc:Like a few years?
Guest:It's been in October.
Guest:It'll be four years.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's hard, man.
Guest:It's very difficult.
Marc:I think the way, you know, that when you release the song...
Marc:I mean, that was very, you know, honest and heartfelt and like a beautiful kind of honor or, you know, what would you call it?
Marc:Homage.
Marc:Homage.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The poetry of it was beautiful.
Marc:But, you know, even when you do that, it doesn't satisfy the absence.
Marc:No, not at all.
Marc:And so how do you experience on a day to day basis?
Guest:You know, as time goes on, it gets easier.
Guest:You figure out how to carry it.
Guest:But still, there's plenty of times where it's almost like, I think the closest way I can relate to it is almost like a PTSD style sort of triggering.
Guest:Where it's like if I hear, you know, a heart monitor.
Guest:A beep of a heart monitor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:it takes me back to the hospital yeah if i hear the sound of a of an automatic uh uh hand sanitizer dispenser it makes me think of being in the hospital and hearing that sound walking out of the room and and putting the hand sanitizer on uh little weird little things like you don't realize but not the music no no i think uh well actually yeah when it comes to listening to van halen i i really i can't yeah it's very very difficult for me the hardest thing was for me to
Guest:listen to hot for teacher over and over and over again to like make sure I had the solo down the licks.
Guest:Um, and, uh, yeah, it's just very tough for me.
Guest:And I think it's like the exact opposite.
Guest:I think for the people that miss him being a fan is that all they have is what they've had to begin with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Uh, which is the music for me.
Guest:Uh, that's all I have left.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so to not have him, it's just, it makes it very difficult because I, there's so much I wish I could share with him.
Marc:Well, it's interesting because of like what you were saying before, uh,
Marc:That, you know, I don't know if you've ever sort of, you know, fucked around with, you know, codependency recovery or any of that.
Marc:But, you know, the idea that, you know, through most of your life you felt like you had to keep him on track.
Marc:So that bond is almost, you know, it's deeper in a way because you have the relationship, the love, but then you have this kind of,
Marc:you know, this responsibility and this panic at all times, which, you know, you feel necessary.
Marc:Yeah, I never expected to be in that sort of position so early in my life.
Guest:Now, what are your earliest memories of the family?
Guest:I mean, it was, I think my mom was really good at hiding the bullshit from me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That it almost gave me the superpower of total awareness that I, you know, I was always really able to start to tell like, oh, if something's wrong, you know, like, oh, surprise, I'm going to a friend's house after school today.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:What's happening?
Guest:It turns out, oh, they're giving him an intervention.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Stuff like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and.
Guest:So your earliest memories, he's already pretty fucked up.
Guest:No, actually, one of my earliest memories during the Balance era of the Van Halen album is he was sober for that tour.
Guest:And I remember that specifically because he cut his hair.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I always related his short hair to good times.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So that when he got sober in 2007 for the first time and cut his hair after a long time, it was like, oh, my God.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:This is incredible.
Guest:Everything's OK again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For a little bit.
Guest:And then, you know.
Guest:How old were you when they split up?
Guest:It was 2006.
Guest:I was, what, 15?
Marc:Oh, so it was like later.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You kind of hammered it out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But when did you start playing?
Guest:I started playing drums when I was nine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Guitar when I was 12 and bass shortly after.
Marc:And, and it was just, I imagine that immediately, like, I, I'm sure you have no memory of, of your dad kind of wondering like, how's this kid going to turn out?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He never, he never pushed me into it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But when he saw that it was there, he was just very excited about it.
Guest:And I think I remember there being a moment of my dad going like, dude, like, listen to him.
Guest:He can play.
Guest:And mom just being like, yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I see where this is going.
Guest:And I understand that.
Guest:I understand that trepidation on her part.
Guest:But I think I've managed to use my dad's experiences and been able to carve out a path of least destruction so far.
Marc:Well, I mean, I guess it goes either way with people that grow up in that.
Marc:Either they become sort of like, you know, constant kind of like, is everything okay, people?
Marc:Or they become, you know, addicts themselves.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I got a bit of that for sure.
Guest:But I think the big thing that you see from a lot of people in my position is that desire to chase everything that came before them rather than trying to find their own identity.
Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:You know, just trying to be their dad.
Guest:Oh, people in, like, the few people that are following in their dad's footsteps in the arts.
Guest:Yeah, I think they do their most to just be like, hey, I'm younger.
Guest:Like, I'm the next generation of him, and I'm doing what he does.
Guest:Come see me play his songs.
Guest:And it's like...
Guest:That's not what I wanna do at all.
Guest:I wanna be- Now?
Guest:Yeah, it's like, I wanna be my own person.
Guest:But you felt that before.
Guest:Well, when I was playing with him, yeah, obviously that was what I was getting out of that is being able to- When you start, like, is there a support group for children of-
Marc:Are you and Jacob Dillon talking?
Guest:Not really.
Guest:I remember actually when he passed, somebody that reached out to me that meant a lot was Zelda Williams, Robbins' daughter.
Guest:And she's wonderful.
Guest:And she really made me feel not alone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's nice.
Guest:And she's wonderful.
Marc:Yeah, that was a tragic... That broke my heart.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's just like there are these guys, and I think your dad's one of them, where you're like, well, what's the world going to do without that guy?
Marc:Yeah, pretty much.
Marc:It's like, fuck.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:What are we going to do?
Marc:Yeah, and then some of the ones from the 60s are still plugging along.
Guest:Yeah, how the... I just... Yeah, it's crazy.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But so when you start playing...
Marc:When do you start, like, you know, actually, like, sitting in?
Marc:Like, I mean, if you start playing drums and you're not, and your uncle's helping you out?
Guest:No, actually, it's a funny thing.
Guest:Everybody assumes that my dad taught me and my uncle taught me.
Guest:And the only thing that my dad taught me was how to play drums.
Guest:He taught me just, like, he put, I've told this story a bunch of times, but he put, like, books on a table.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He's like, with this hand, do this, this one.
Yeah.
Guest:And if you do your foot in between that, that's Highway to Hell.
Guest:That was the one.
Guest:Yeah, pretty much.
Guest:And I took that and I listened to Van Halen Best Of Volume 1 and Anima of the State by Blink-182.
Guest:And those two albums, I just tried to replicate everything I heard.
Guest:And that's how I learned how to play drums.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you just sat in there and did it?
Marc:So you never...
Marc:Wait, like you don't want jazz chops or anything like that?
Marc:I mean, I think it might be a little too late for that now.
Guest:Just kind of a heavy-handed sort of rock vibe, I guess.
Guest:Did your dad like ACDC?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That was one of our bands.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Which album?
Marc:Bond stuff?
Marc:Yeah, Powerage.
Guest:Powerage is the best record ever.
Guest:Downpayment Blues.
Guest:The best?
Guest:The fucking best.
Marc:Riff Raff.
Marc:The best.
Marc:That album is like, I still listen to that album.
Guest:Highway to Hell is very special to me as well, but Powerage is just the motherfucker of it.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Highway to Hell was like, you know, this like, you know, here we there.
Marc:Now they're going to take off.
Marc:But Poweridge is raw as fuck.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:And all the songs are different.
Marc:I turned some kid on.
Marc:I'm doing this TV show with some kid.
Marc:He must be in his early 20s.
Marc:Never heard it.
Marc:Never.
Marc:I got to turn that kid on to Zeppelin 1 and 2.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:And Poweridge.
Marc:And I just watched this kid listen and like...
Marc:What?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:That's incredible.
Marc:Powers, down payment blues is the best.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you ever fuck around with those songs?
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:The way he introduced me to ACDC was my parents pulled me out of school for a week.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they rented a Winnebago and went to the Grand Canyon.
Guest:And he played big balls for me off of Dirty Dates.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That song made me laugh so hard just the way Bon Scott sings on it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And from there, I loved ACDC ever since.
Marc:That's how you got in?
Marc:Big balls.
Marc:Big balls, yeah.
Marc:And that's on that weird record.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:That's on Dirty Deeds, I think.
Marc:Dirty Deeds, right.
Marc:But that got released later.
Marc:It was released in Australia first.
Marc:Yeah, there was a weird Australian release and a U.S.
Marc:release.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And what other stuff was he playing that got you going when you were like 10?
Guest:It's so funny.
Guest:It was really just ACDC.
Guest:And then the only other thing that we really bonded on that he loved was Peter Gabriel.
Guest:What?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I can't even get there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're not into Peter Gabriel?
No.
Guest:i mean the hits were okay so is an incredible album okay i remember he he there was one night where he he had like a like a speaker system on the floor yeah he had a headphone he had headphones he's like wolf listen to this yeah he turned on uh red rain which i think is the first song on that album on so and he just cranked it loud and just hearing that uh like just changed my life that that is an incredible song
Marc:Yeah, I mean, like, I tried to get into, because I got vinyl in there, and I'm one of those old idiots.
Guest:Me too, I collect all that shit.
Marc:You do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I was like, you know, I had like a few hundred records from high school that had been carting around, and then all of a sudden you hit a certain age where you're like, I need to get all the records ever made, I think.
Marc:Complete the collection, yeah.
Marc:And they're one of those bands that I had to go back.
Marc:Because I'm not that prog-driven.
Marc:So people are like, I was in those first two Genesis records.
Marc:And I'm like, I listen to them.
Marc:I'm like, I don't think I have to.
Marc:Yeah, I can be a bit too proggy.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what it is.
Marc:It just doesn't land with me.
Marc:Rush is pretty good.
Marc:But you listen to Yes, and it's sort of like, all right.
Marc:I still just like that one part of Roundabout.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:In and around the lake.
Marc:The ACDC part of Roundabout.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But what's weird when you listen to the vinyl of that shit is that you hear that they're bands.
Marc:Like, if you just grow up listening to that shit in your car, you're like, this isn't even real.
Marc:But when you listen to Yes or that Genesis stuff, you can hear those if you have a good system.
Marc:They're just dudes in a room.
Guest:They're just dudes in a room.
Marc:And it's crazy, right?
Yeah.
Marc:I mean, that's the thing I take away from it.
Marc:It's amazing that they were just dudes in a room.
Guest:You used to have to really, really be able to play to pull that stuff off.
Guest:And nowadays, technology has really helped us, enabled us to play entire albums on our own.
Guest:But yeah, back then, that's just dudes in a room.
Marc:But do you like the dudes in the room thing at all?
Marc:Totally.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:And I did that.
Guest:I did that.
Guest:On the Van Halen record?
Guest:With Dad.
Guest:And I was in a band called Tremonti.
Guest:And I did that there.
Guest:And I think so many people are like, why don't you do that?
Guest:And it's like, I already did.
Guest:I've been on a path that led to this.
Guest:And this is where I find my most artistic satisfaction.
Marc:But you're also just on the beginning of the path, so there's no reason to think that at some point somebody's going to say to you.
Guest:Yeah, who knows?
Guest:I'm having fun right now, but maybe on the fifth album I might be like, fuck, I don't want to play drums.
Guest:Get some guys in here.
Guest:Who knows?
Guest:Put a little combo together.
Marc:Let me figure it out.
Guest:Don't figure it out for me.
Marc:That's the weird thing, too, about playing with Van Halen.
Marc:I mean, to play in a trio as a rhythm section, it's a lot of responsibility.
Guest:Yeah, it certainly is.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yeah, Van Halen is literally just a trio.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:When it comes to the band.
Marc:When I talked to David Lee Roth, he put it in such a weird way.
Marc:He said, the best metal band of the 80s were two Asian guys and a Jew.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And I'm like, hey.
Guest:That is an incredibly poetic way to talk about Van Halen, for sure.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it's like I never thought of that.
Marc:You know?
Marc:I love it.
Marc:So when you're growing up, I mean, when did that, you know, the first... Because your mom seems like such a saint, and she has a lot of...
Marc:I think looking back, she's been able to seemingly integrate whatever shortcoming she had in the dynamic, but still seems very grounded.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was she always like that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think it's a reason why...
Guest:maybe I don't have a Coke problem, you know, you know, and I'm not just some, some shitty fucking asshole with a Coke problem.
Guest:I think she instilled a bunch of, you know, morals and same, I mean, same with my dad with the, even the issues he had, you know, I think just their, you know, regardless of the issues they had together, when it came to me, they were, they were fully, you know, and unconditionally loving.
Guest:And I think that really helped me figure out how to operate as a person for sure.
Marc:And when they split up, I mean, you were still young enough to have to do the whole, you know, sometime here, sometime there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not that always fucks you up.
Guest:But yeah, that seems like a rite of passage at this point with divorce rates in the country.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Mine didn't get divorced.
Marc:I was in my 30s.
Marc:So I got off easy.
Marc:I didn't I didn't have to decide who to live with.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Thank God.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to take him when you can.
Marc:But but when how old you when when were you when when he got that first cancer?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:They were still together.
Guest:I was really, really young.
Guest:But then it was taken care of.
Guest:They just kind of chopped it out of his tongue and he was good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you didn't stop smoking.
Marc:No.
Marc:You love those fucking cigarettes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But was that because...
Marc:Because I know your mom was talking about, and we told him, and she hints at this thing.
Marc:And I think when I talked to Dave Lee Roth, too, because I imagine that Dave Lee Roth, when they started playing, knew your grandparents.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, they weren't around too long.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I know my grandfather didn't even...
Guest:uh make it to the to the hagar era i believe yeah did you know them no i never met him uh i i knew my my my oma yeah uh she she passed in 2004 but she mostly she mostly spoke indonesian she didn't really speak much english wild yeah and you didn't speak any of that i did not i just anytime i'll go over there
Guest:Did your dad?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:With my dad, we would always go over there, and she was always, you know, bellyaching about something to him in Indonesian, and he would always just be like, dach, ma.
Guest:So maybe they were speaking Dutch, yeah, probably.
Guest:Yeah, maybe Dutch.
Guest:But yeah, so, you know, but she was always very sweet to me.
Marc:Yeah, grandma, right?
Marc:But like, but your mom hints at this, like this, and I think it's an easy thing to backload, especially because, you know, trauma is so discussed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That there was this idea that, you know, your dad just didn't want to deal with, you know, whatever it was.
Guest:Yeah, I think he had a very traumatic upbringing.
Guest:How so?
Guest:I think...
Guest:His mom was very rough on him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He always told me that she would tell him that he was a nietsnut, which was a nothing nut.
Guest:You'll amount to nothing.
Guest:He sure fucking proved her wrong.
Guest:That drives you sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, I guess.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:So, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think David, you know, sort of said that, you know, they got like there was racism.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, big time.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:People don't really think about that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because, you know, he looked just like kind of a white dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But back in the day, you know, when he came to America, you know, he was treated that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they had to deal with that, both of them, huh?
Guest:Yeah, big time.
Guest:I could barely speak English, only knew like 10 words.
Yeah.
Guest:uh came to the country when he was god what six yeah so yeah he just uh yeah they had to deal with all that shit but you never had those kind of conversations with him oh no we certainly did i mean we talked about just you know everything that he'd he'd been through and all that but yeah it was a lot of a lot of stuff
Marc:As time went on, you know, and as he got older and you got older.
Guest:Yeah, but I think, you know, at a certain point that trauma is just so baked in that it's very tough to deal with.
Guest:I mean, he did eventually get sober and he had his, you know, troubles with that.
Guest:But, you know, near the end, he was mostly sober.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was a totally different guy?
Yeah.
Guest:For the most part, I think that was another big thing for him was his anxiety.
Guest:And that's something that I very much am realizing I share with him.
Guest:Yeah, because I think there was a moment where he was scared.
Guest:Yeah, that's why he drank.
Guest:Even just from stage anxiety, that's why he would drink.
Guest:He just couldn't handle it.
Guest:And I think that was a big reason why being on tour with him in 07 and starting that
Guest:gave him uh the confidence to be able to do it without drinking was looking over and being like well fuck if my son can do it he's 15 i better fucking nut up you know and so in a way that that was kind of the only way it could have happened at that point and was there a difference in his playing drunk and sober no maybe in his in his understanding yeah of of playing together because i sometimes he he would count wrong and al and i would save him and he would have no idea but oh yeah
Guest:But that's just a fun thing.
Guest:But yeah, not really.
Guest:He was just always brilliant.
Marc:So before Van Halen, what were the musical projects you were involved with?
Guest:Nothing, really.
Guest:I was just kind of a bedroom.
Guest:I learned everything.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I learned all the tabs from bands that I liked, and I would play with friends in middle school in my music room, and that was kind of it.
Guest:Were you up there all day long, just like... Yeah, I was always playing drums for the most part, and it wasn't until...
Guest:uh, you know, I would visit dad and Al at the studio and they were playing and I would pick up a bass and start playing a little bit that it was like, Oh, this is pretty fun.
Guest:I was 15, 14 at the time, I guess.
Guest:So you didn't pick up a guitar.
Guest:I mean, I had, I picked up a guitar when I was 12 for a talent show at school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um, but yeah, I never, I don't know.
Guest:I, I was having the most fun on drums and I didn't really want to, I mean, my dad did start on drums.
Guest:So I guess in a way I was following his footsteps, but, uh,
Guest:Yeah, it was just too daunting of a task for me to compete with everything dad had done on guitar, which is why I guess it's taken me so long to feel comfortable playing guitar in something.
Marc:But it's not that long.
Marc:I mean, you're a very proficient player and you can really... Yeah, but I'll never be my father.
Guest:Yeah, but so what?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That's my answer to that.
Guest:Who fucking cares?
Guest:My dad was my dad.
Guest:I mean, no one's going to do that.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, but like I got guitars all over the place and I can't get out of a pentatonic.
Guest:Who cares?
Guest:As long as you're having a good time.
Marc:I'm having a pretty good time, but there's some part of me that's like, just sit down with the thing.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:Run through the scales.
Marc:Yeah, it doesn't matter that you're 60.
Marc:I just learned my Mixolydians like six months ago.
Guest:Yeah, see, I don't even know that shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I just play what sounds good.
Guest:You don't know that shit?
Guest:At least to me.
Guest:But you know how to read tabs.
Guest:Yeah, but that's like simple, at least in comparison to like actually reading music.
Marc:Yeah, you can't read music.
Marc:No.
Guest:Dad couldn't either.
Marc:Yeah, but you don't know the different scales?
Guest:No, I don't know the difference between fucking Mixolydian and fucking Nickelodeon.
Marc:Yeah.
Ha!
Marc:All right, so I just got to relax, I guess, you know?
Marc:Yeah, just chill out.
Marc:And I just never... But you do know how, like, one thing you did do, though, was you could listen to a record and be like, I'm going to figure that out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what were you doing that with, mostly?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:when you were younger uh let's see uh i mean acdc was big and that guy he's all pentatonic yeah but that's the thing is that he's he's he's angus is really blues based like he's so anarchistic with the way that he plays yeah that it doesn't feel like it's bluesy i know it's crazy that's what i really enjoy about angus's playing it's just all just yeah you know overwhelming right yeah um did you meet that guy
Guest:I met him once, yeah.
Guest:I also met Malcolm, who is arguably the best rhythm guitar player in history.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:So it was an honor to meet them.
Guest:I've met Brian a couple times over the years, and he's always wonderful too.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Let's see, I was big into, I still am, Alice in Chains.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I really love Alice in Chains.
Guest:You know, they're great.
Guest:Jerry's awesome.
Guest:Were you a Soundgarden guy?
Guest:Yeah, certainly.
Guest:I love Soundgarden, but I think if I had to pick the grunge band for me, it would be Alice in Chains.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was when you were, that was that era, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I usually at that point I wasn't super, I mean, at that point I was growing up, I was listening to like Blink-182 and System of a Down, everything all my friends were listening to in middle school, but I still had that appreciation for those other bands as well.
Guest:System of a Down, pretty intense.
Guest:Yeah, very, very intense.
Guest:I remember in middle school trying to learn Chop Suey.
Guest:That's how I learned how to read guitar tabs.
Guest:From that?
Guest:Was with the Trying to Learn System of a Down in middle school, yeah.
Marc:You meet that guy?
Marc:He was around here, I think.
Guest:Serge?
Guest:I have not met them.
I have not.
Marc:He's an intense guy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, there's a lot going on there politically, and there's a whole other country involved.
Marc:Yeah, they are super intense, for sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But were you ever, like, in terms of, like, a message other than just sort of the poetry of your brain, did you ever feel like you were fighting that fight?
Guest:Not really.
Guest:I think I'm more just about trying to figure out my own shit through music and trying to work through my trauma, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I can barely figure that out.
Guest:So, you know, I don't want to...
Guest:Try to start speaking for somebody else when it might not be my place to do so.
Marc:What's your process with the songwriting?
Guest:Usually, I figure out something that interests me on guitar.
Guest:Maybe just absentmindedly strumming on the couch or something.
Guest:Coming up with something that's cool.
Guest:Throw it on a voice memo.
Guest:And then make a demo on my computer.
Guest:And from there, just kind of see if the idea evolves.
Guest:And we'll see what happens.
Guest:If that starts with the music first?
Guest:Always, yeah.
Guest:Then when it comes to vocals, always melody.
Guest:Because I think that is...
Guest:Kind of the most important thing is having a melody that flows comfortably and then you figure out the words later to make sure kind of that the vowel sounds are almost comfortable.
Guest:I hate when you can tell certain singers are just kind of shoving lyrics into it just to kind of fit.
Guest:I think it should flow kind of comfortably.
Guest:The meter of it should kind of feel good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also, I imagine the Foo Fighters are kind of an inspiration, right?
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:The Foo's are probably one of the bigger ones.
Guest:Same with Nine Inch Nails.
Guest:I'm just a really big fan of when there's just a guy, and it's like Trent Reznor, Dave Grohl, and it just kind of comes out of them, and then they have the people they rely on, and then they take it on together.
Guest:And that guy he's got drumming for him is Nine Inch Nails guy, right?
Guest:Yeah, Josh Freese.
Guest:Well, Josh Freese has guaranteed, if you've never heard of him, you have at least listened to him.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Just look at his Wikipedia.
Guest:He's played on everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's fucking incredible.
Marc:Yeah, he's a monster on the drums.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So after, like, you know, like after you do that run, so your dad gets the tongue thing, and then it's years?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, it didn't.
Guest:It didn't come back in any type of scary, meaningful way until, let's see, I want to say like 2013, 2012, 2011.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And then that was right around when he got sober again.
Guest:and uh were you going was he going in and out of rehabs and stuff he did initially um and that the first time at least uh after touring it really didn't work because they got him hooked on all these pills to get him away from the from the booze and it just fucked everything else up because then he started drinking again on top of it and it was just a fucking nightmare but uh did you go to like family days and shit was he ever doing inpatient and kind of sometimes yeah uh
Guest:And, uh, but I mean, there was, I mean, a couple of times we went to like therapy together and I had to try and figure out how to tell him that, you know, I just, I couldn't even word it properly as a, as I counted, what was I 17?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Um, and it was just tough to, to put it into words, but, uh, he eventually figured it out and it was, it was good.
Guest:When it did get scary.
Guest:Like, how did you know it was scary?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You could always see that he wasn't there.
Guest:You could look into his eyes and see that there wasn't, like it was just kind of glazed over.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You could see him in there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you'd know he was there, especially when he would tell me he loved me or said something nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you knew that he was easily irritable and that there was just something off.
Guest:It was very easy to tell, at least for me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And in those moments, did you feel helpless?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Big time.
Marc:Because that's, I guess, the most horrible thing is that there's nothing I can do.
Guest:Well, and you begin to normalize it, too, until a third party comes around and goes like, well, yeah, I was fucked up.
Guest:It's like, oh, shit, you're right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That is fucked up.
Guest:Most dads don't drive around with an open bottle of wine in the car.
Guest:Yeah, with their kids and their friends.
Guest:Yeah, and it's like, fuck.
Guest:Like, yeah, that's not good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did he have close friends?
Guest:Yeah, but I don't know.
Guest:I think that's a tough thing being fucking Eddie Van Halen is that you never know who to trust.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And I never, I rarely trusted anybody that was around him.
Guest:And I mean, at a certain point he didn't either, you know?
Marc:Yeah, because they're just on for the ride and they're fueling the bad shit.
Guest:Look at how many fucking books have come out about my relationship with Eddie Van Halen.
Guest:And that tells you every answer you need to see.
Guest:Are there a lot of them?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's another one every fucking week.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's just like, really?
Guest:You guys are that close?
Guest:I don't even know who the fuck you are.
Marc:That guy who came over once.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that guy that was fucking annoying?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do people buy those fucking books?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's an audience for that that just desperately needs to consume everything.
Marc:Well, that's the scariest thing about, and I don't know, it seems like a lot of the dudes in the doc, I don't know who the trusted humans are.
Marc:What's that?
Guest:They're sort of the, as we put it, the collective...
Guest:brain trust of everything with my band and all the decisions that need to be made so we can make sure that we push forward in the most succinct and agreed upon clear way for the best results.
Guest:Right, but that's also like a first line of defense against sycophants and weirdos.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I think we're able to take anything, any issue or any event, and we're able to talk about it and find a solution that we can all agree upon and move forward with.
Marc:Because that's another thing about those 80s bands is that there were just – because I was doing – I was a kid in my early 20s doing comedy at the Comedy Store in 87.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:and you know that was when hair metal was all over the place and there were just like really fucked up people too many ulterior motives too many personal managers too many guys going hey dave you'd be better without these guys you don't need them yeah or and then all of a sudden he leaves and there you go yeah or you got you want to bump yeah pretty much it's like the so the bump guys using you know people there's a lot of people are like so what did you learn in your time at van halen and it's like
Guest:most of the stuff I learned was what not to do, what to avoid.
Guest:For you.
Guest:Seeing the history, knowing that I could, you know, like, hey, find people you trust.
Guest:Well, when you were in it, like, were they still around?
Guest:No, I think they had it figured out.
Guest:But I think just hearing stories and, but then also just seeing the relationship of like, hey, man, I wish we could all get along.
Guest:Wouldn't that be great?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Instead of just kind of here to play together and then see you later.
Marc:I guess, you know, it seems like, you know, I got a buddy of mine who's a music manager.
Marc:You know, J.D., John Daniel, he's at Crush Management.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:He's got, like, I don't know, he's got Train and Courtney Love and the Weezer now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But a sweet guy.
Marc:But, like, you know, when he was in music, you know, he kind of told me that these personalities, you know, specifically at Front Men –
Guest:I found that my dad would call it LSD, lead singer disease.
Guest:I found most singers who maybe can't play an instrument are kind of there to be there because they want everybody to look at me.
Guest:yeah you know and they're a little nuts yeah yeah it takes a little bit of uh you know narcissistic yeah you know uh idiocy to kind of yeah but uh and he john was a bass player so the rhythm section they're like solid you know what i mean like exactly
Guest:Because the bass player, he doesn't want to be there because he wants to be the bass player.
Guest:He's there because he wants to play.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then, you know, and the drummer's the drummer.
Marc:And then, like, the guitar and the lead singer, that's got to be the roughest.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the toughest position because that's what everybody's looking at.
Marc:And did you, like... But, like, in terms of, like...
Marc:You have Sammy.
Marc:I mean, do you have a relationship with him?
Guest:Not too much.
Guest:I mean, we're cordial, I guess.
Guest:But, you know, it's just I'm just desperate to avoid the drama.
Guest:You know, I just want to be I just want to kind of figure my own shit out and just avoid the drama in all in all ways I can.
Marc:Well, I read some piece that, you know, you had a nice, you know, interaction with Anthony.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mike is great.
Guest:I think he's another one that's just kind of caught in the crossfire between everybody, between the singers and all that.
Guest:But he came to see you out in Vegas, was it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mike is just a genuine good dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just think...
Guest:People wouldn't expect us to be friendly with each other.
Guest:But it's like that's when you get lost in the social media battles of bullshit.
Marc:But the other point of it is on some level, it's like you were a kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's the kid that was hanging around.
Guest:I was a kid just trying to.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, so those guys at least have to know, like, oh, yeah, it says Wolfie.
Guest:Yeah, Mike was like, yeah, no, Wolfie's a good kid.
Guest:Yeah, and that's all he said.
Guest:But then it just became a— Oh, that became a fucking shitstorm, too?
Guest:No, not that.
Guest:That was good.
Guest:I'm just talking about, you know, me being in VH to begin with.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Marc:But do you find, you know, what kind of, in terms of the possibility of, like, sycophants and weirdos, do they come at you?
Marc:I mean, you know, do you have your own now?
Guest:At a certain point, I think I've blocked, like, all of them.
Guest:That's a wonderful feature on social media.
Guest:You know, when just any weird vibes show up, it's, like, gone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I may have carved my own little position where I don't get it that much anymore.
Guest:But they're definitely out there.
Guest:But do you have fans that are... Yeah, there's wonderful people who are fans of Mammoth.
Guest:It's really fun when people are like, I never really listened to Van Halen, but I enjoy Mammoth.
Guest:And then you see the Van Halen fans underneath them and go, how fucking dare you?
Guest:And they're all like old dudes.
Guest:Yeah, they can just... People, it's okay.
Guest:It's okay, man.
Guest:I know it's special and important to you, but it doesn't mean it has to be for everybody else.
Marc:Well, it's just so funny about that generation because they've got to be... If you were in high school...
Marc:When Van Halen, the first one came out, I mean, you're 60 or older, right?
Guest:Look, I get you lost your virginity at a drive-in movie to Panama, and that's why it's so important to you.
Guest:But it doesn't mean it's—that's a tough thing about art and music, is that it's purely subjective.
Guest:But what I think is objective, and you can't—
Guest:Ignore is dad's effect on the industry and what he did for music.
Guest:That can't be argued.
Guest:That's not a subjective thing.
Guest:What's subjective is if you enjoy it or not.
Marc:Or if it's even in your rotation.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Because you've got to have this whole new generation of people that are coming through.
Marc:I imagine the era of old guys that are closer to you are like Dave's age.
Marc:And so those guys' kids have got to be listening to you.
Guest:Yeah, and that's the fun sort of that generational sort of gap you see where it's like there are Van Halen fans who come to see me play, but they bring their kids who are fans of what I'm doing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's really cool to see them bond over that.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:I really love that.
Guest:It's very nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because, again, it's just a vocal minority that are really the dickheads.
Guest:Everybody else out there is usually really positive and kind.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I listened to – I went back and listened to –
Marc:the first couple of Van Halen records, and it's like, wow.
Marc:The weird thing.
Guest:Shit's good.
Marc:But I think the difference was it was fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it wasn't like, there wasn't like this teen angst.
Marc:No, there's a really cool thing about not taking yourself seriously while destroying at the same time.
Marc:I think they might have invented that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Kind of.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Because he could have chosen to be menacing.
Guest:No, just to see Dad up there smiling while just completely obliterating everybody is just a really cool thing to see.
Marc:And when he,
Marc:So after the Van Halen tour, that's when he got sick?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we did three tours.
Guest:We did 2007.
Guest:Then we did an album.
Guest:And then we did 2012.
Guest:We actually went to Japan for a sec.
Guest:Australia for a show.
Guest:And then in 2015, we released a show we did at the Tokyo Dome.
Guest:The live one, yeah.
Guest:And then went on tour for that.
Guest:And then it wasn't...
Guest:Then shit was good.
Guest:You know, it was good until, let's see, about 2019.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's when it all sort of went to hell.
Marc:When the motorcycle accident?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it just never kind of, never relented after that.
Guest:March 17th, 2019.
Guest:From that date on, it kind of just didn't... It went up and down, but it never got better.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It sounded so scary.
Marc:Yeah, it wasn't... Yeah.
Marc:I mean... It was.
Marc:But...
Marc:I think that despite the tragic element and however you feel now, it's a rare thing to be able to deal with it, but also in a lot of cases, people aren't there when it happens.
Marc:So I assume that in the process of those last few months,
Marc:You had to know right on some level.
Guest:I think, but at the same time, I was so naive and so desperate to keep that glass half full, you know, that I was like, it's going to be okay.
Guest:You know, we're going to get through this.
Guest:Nothing bad.
Guest:Like, it's not going to, like, that wouldn't happen.
Guest:Like, everything's going to be fine.
Guest:We're going to get through it.
Guest:And I think I really convinced myself.
Guest:But there were moments where it really felt like, shit, we're going to get through this.
Guest:It's going to be fine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because he's a pretty young dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's too young, man.
Guest:So he wasn't even older than his dad.
Guest:His dad passed at 66.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How old was he?
Marc:65.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you were there for it.
Guest:Every day.
Guest:Man, I slept in that hospital.
Guest:Your mom too?
Guest:No, she visited a lot.
Guest:But it was me, my Uncle Patrick, and my dad had met a caretaker when he was at this place overseas in Zurich, who was a really great dude.
Guest:His name was Leon.
Guest:And we were sort of this like...
Guest:unit that just were like at any time you know i still am start to slowly getting over get if i get a phone call outside of 8 a.m and like 2 p 2 a.m you know like if i get a call either a little too early or a little too late that my heart jumps and i'm like oh fuck what's wrong what yeah yeah yeah and it came to a point where
Guest:anybody like in that area knowing what was going on would would call an immediate glow everything's okay yeah but here's what's you know and then talk about whatever the fuck they wanted right right i'm still slowly getting over that panic of seeing the phone ring outside of a normal hour yeah yeah yeah yeah like it's those little things that you don't think about where was he at cedars uh st john's which was uh where i was born
Guest:Really?
Guest:Where's that at?
Marc:Santa Monica.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you feel like on some level you did get like some closure?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:In what way?
Marc:I mean, in the way that, like, you know, when you see someone, when you're there for somebody that, you know, is that important and family, you know, right up till the end.
Marc:And he was lucid or no?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:I don't think there was much closure because it was unexpected.
Guest:Was it the stroke that really killed him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it was due to the cancer and everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you want to get specific, it was...
Guest:I remember leaving that night, said bye, and the last thing he said was, I love you.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:And it's like, I'll take that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I will hold on to that.
Guest:And then it wasn't until I got a call early morning the next morning that he was kind of unresponsive.
Yeah.
Guest:But he was still there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was two days later that it happened.
Guest:I got that call October 6th in the morning.
Guest:It was like, I think it was maybe 8, 8.30 or something.
Guest:And he was like, hey, the doctor was like, you're going to want to come over.
Guest:It's not looking good.
Guest:It's like, I'll be right there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not even two hours later.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were just there like holding his hand kind of thing?
Marc:10, 14.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:And you called your mom?
Marc:Yeah, my mom was there.
Marc:Was your uncle?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Yeah, I can't imagine that.
Guest:It's tough.
Guest:That's the fucked up thing is that everybody, for the most part, has to go through something like that.
Guest:Isn't that fucked up?
Guest:You can't.
Marc:No, it's totally fucked up.
Marc:How the hell are we supposed to deal with that?
Marc:I think about it all the time.
Marc:You know, my...
Marc:My girlfriend passed away during COVID, and it wasn't a COVID, and it was a complete... She was 54, and it came out of nowhere.
Marc:I'm so sorry, man.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:And it was like some very aggressive form of leukemia that she didn't even know she had.
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:And she got sick, and within days, she was gone.
Marc:And I couldn't go to the hospital and stuff.
Marc:And you just...
Marc:Like what happens is that all of a sudden you're dealing with this inevitability and then the realization that, you know, everybody, everybody is going to deal with this somehow.
Marc:And how they experience their grief, that's, you know, that's on them.
Marc:But it's unavoidable.
Guest:Yeah, that's the fucked up thing.
Guest:All we're doing, all life is, is just trying to figure out how to stay happy amongst all the eventual trauma.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Right.
Marc:And, and also to, to sort of somehow, you know, know in your mind and in your heart that, you know, this is something built into the human experience and that, you know, moving on is, is essential.
Marc:But, you know, like how do you, because when, when grief at the beginning, you can't control any of that shit.
Marc:You can't, you can't control your crying.
Marc:You can't control when it's going to happen.
Marc:You don't know, you know, it's just your brain, like no matter what you do to be like, I'm okay, man, let's just go eat.
Marc:You know?
Guest:And then all of a sudden you're just crying in your burrito.
Guest:Oh, dude.
Guest:That whole first tour that I did in 2021.
Guest:With Mammoth?
Guest:Yeah, it was Mammoth.
Guest:Our first tour, we were opening for Guns N' Roses.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:Every single night when I was in my bunk, I was just sobbing, just trying to keep it away from everybody.
Guest:It's like, I don't want to make this everybody's problem, but I'm still going through shit.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And it's all you can do is just...
Guest:I think growing up in the household I was growing up in, we tended to hold things in.
Guest:But I found that when it comes to stuff like this, you just have to let it out.
Guest:It's like taking a shit.
Guest:It's like an emotional shit.
Guest:You just got to get it out of your mind.
Guest:Let it happen.
Guest:Just let it happen.
Marc:And, like, it must be amazing.
Marc:I mean, did you tour with – did you go to a lot of shows growing up?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:So, like, on some level, you know, just being in an arena setting, a rock show setting has got to be, like, a fucking trigger.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It fucking kills me that dad can never come to a mammoth show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I was having dinner –
Guest:uh, after Metallica show, they, they do like these dinners and I was, I was hanging out with, with James and, uh, he was wearing his son's band shirt.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I saw that and I was like, fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Dad would like be like so stoked to wear a mammoth shirt, you know?
Guest:They saw you once though, right?
Guest:He was there for rehearsals.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:And he had the music.
Guest:He loved the music.
Guest:He showed it to everybody who would listen or not listen.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He was super proud, which is why just, man, just to have that one opportunity, I'll never have it.
Guest:And your mom goes though, right?
Guest:She's at every show.
Guest:I mean, her Twitter handle is Wolfie's mom.
Guest:She's as proud as can be.
Guest:And it's wonderful.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when you're touring with Gunzo, was Slash, he's a good guy.
Marc:Slash is a great guy.
Marc:And was he kind of like understanding?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, for sure.
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:Slash was, he's a really great dude.
Guest:We actually just toured with him again.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:For his solo stuff in Europe.
Guest:Yeah, he's a wonderful guy.
Guest:Interesting guitar player, right?
Guest:Yeah, he's crazy.
Marc:It's like, I don't even know what's going on.
Marc:He's gotten bluesier lately.
Guest:Yeah, he's doing that blues album.
Marc:Yeah, it's crazy because he kind of came back around to it.
Marc:Because when I talked to him, I was like, what album broke your brain?
Marc:And it was like Rocks by Aerosmith.
Marc:And you're like, oh, that makes total sense.
Marc:That's the whole thing.
Marc:Well, I'm glad you're doing well.
Marc:And, you know, the new album is great.
Marc:Thank you, man.
Marc:And it was very, you know, it was a great story.
Marc:It's a rare story for that genre behind the music where, you know, you're the focus of it.
Marc:But the backdrop is, you know, dealing with your dad's illness.
Marc:But it's not like it's not this sort of like, oh, it's amazing.
Marc:They're not all dead stories.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:It's definitely a different take on a sort of behind the music.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's more of a, like a tribute and a heartfelt sort of portrait of a guy.
Guest:I mean, that's, that's what I view myself as.
Guest:I'm just, I'm, you know, people are always clamoring.
Guest:It's like, get, get up there.
Guest:You better play Panama for me.
Guest:You're, you just, you know, we owe, we, you,
Guest:You owe it to us.
Guest:And it's like, no, man, I think just me existing and playing music is a tribute within itself to my father.
Marc:Absolutely, buddy.
Marc:Well, it's good to talk to you, man.
Guest:Absolute pleasure, man.
Guest:Thank you for having me.
Marc:Nice guy.
Marc:Good musician.
Marc:Sweet guy.
Marc:Good kid.
Marc:Turned out all right.
Marc:You know, it's a good story.
Marc:You can get his tour info at mammothwbh.com and watch his behind the music on Paramount+.
Marc:Hang out for a minute, folks.
Marc:Hey, for full Marin subscribers tomorrow, we've got more exclusive material from my recent interviews that didn't make it into the actual episodes.
Marc:Like more from my talk with Jude law.
Marc:I could tell that like, I'm, I'm clearly, you know, I'm making a scene.
Marc:There's other people involved.
Marc:I'm a public person.
Marc:I'm not that big, but big enough for some idiot to fucking record me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh God.
Marc:And, but the joys of that now.
Marc:I can't even, I can't even, you know, get a little pissed off without the fear also being recorded and having that played back to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just turn around.
Marc:Can I please just be allowed to be annoyed?
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:That's coming up tomorrow on the full Marin to subscribe, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus.
Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by a cast.
Marc:Now we'll go into the vault to find a riff.
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Guest:Boomer lives.
Guest:Monkey.
Guest:The Fonda.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere.
Guest:All accounted for.