Episode 156 - Kathleen Madigan
Marc:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fucking east does?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:Whatever the fuck you want to call yourself.
Marc:This is Mark Maron.
Marc:You are listening to WTF, the podcast, the people's choice podcast.
Marc:I just made that up.
Marc:I don't even I don't even know what that means.
Marc:There's no people.
Marc:I there's no award.
Marc:I was on a rhythm.
Marc:I was on a roll.
Marc:On the show today, a great comedian, someone who's been working in the business for a long time, as long as I have.
Marc:And she is one of the most respected, funniest comedians out there.
Marc:Kathleen Madigan is with us.
Marc:How about with me?
Marc:How many of me are there with me in the garage today?
Marc:You know, I don't like what I have to say today.
Marc:I don't, you know, I had a hard time coming to the mic today.
Marc:I know that sounds odd because you think I just sit down in my garage, but no, I had to pace.
Marc:I had to wander around.
Marc:I had to do a lot of other things.
Marc:I had to stick some food in my face.
Marc:I had to check the yard for something.
Marc:I literally procrastinate.
Marc:Before I get on this microphone sometimes, because I'm not sure what to say or how to say it or what's even on my mind.
Marc:There's so much chaos, but there is a singular thing on my mind today.
Marc:And that is that my friend and someone you all met, many of you through this show, Mike DiStefano, the comedian, passed away.
Marc:I believe he died suddenly of a heart attack.
Marc:And it's very sad.
Marc:It's very sad that we lost a guy that was so honest and so truly funny and had a lot of courage to go to places that no one else would go because he lived in those places and he lived through a lot of things that none of us could ever imagine.
Marc:But it's interesting.
Marc:We've had to deal with quite a few deaths in the community in the last six months to a year.
Marc:And having talked to Mike down in Florida, which a lot of you heard, it's really the only thing I can offer in memory of him, that there was a peace in his soul and in his spirit
Marc:about the life he had lived and the things he had seen and the things he had done and whatever damage he may have caused himself or others, that he had a peace of mind and a serenity to his life.
Marc:And it was quite a life, as many of you know.
Marc:And as sad as I feel about Mike passing away,
Marc:I also feel that for a lot of the big stuff that a lot of us worry about, Mike had processed it, that there was an acceptance to this guy that a lot of us don't have.
Marc:And I don't feel like he passed on having not resolved a great many of the core life issues that haunt us.
Marc:And I think that what he shared in the podcast that I did with him was profound to many of us and even life-changing to many of us.
Marc:And I'm very sad that he's passed away because he was on the verge of something creatively.
Marc:He had gotten some peace around a lot of dark stuff and a lot of horrendous stuff in his life.
Marc:And he was just now shifting into a different mode of expression that he was very excited about.
Marc:And, um,
Marc:I'm sad he's not going to be able to see that through.
Marc:And we lost a pretty amazing talent and a very deep and amazing guy in Mike DiStefano.
Marc:So you will be missed, Mike.
Marc:And please, I know you will rest in peace.
Marc:And I'm sorry that you didn't get to...
Marc:to fulfill some of those dreams you had and to express yourself in a way that you hadn't yet, but you had a profound impact on a lot of us.
Marc:I'm saying that directly to Mike as I sit here in my garage, but to you guys too.
Marc:And I'll tell you, somebody like Mike
Marc:really makes us all look at ourselves in ways that we maybe not have the guts to do.
Marc:That what he lived through and what his tolerance factor was and what his acceptance factor was, was really pretty amazing, pretty big, pretty courageous.
Marc:He put life in a perspective where you had to say to yourself, Jesus, what the fuck am I driving myself crazy for?
Marc:Why can't I clean this shit up?
Marc:this shit in my heart and in my mind.
Marc:And I know a lot of you people have some concern for me sometimes, you know, as I have concern for you and myself.
Marc:And look, I do these shows, you know, and I go out and I meet you guys and I perform for you and you bring me stuff.
Marc:And somebody came to the Bloomington show.
Marc:These two women came and they had a bag of books.
Marc:I took it that they worked at a used bookstore or a bookstore.
Marc:And they said, we thought these would help you, these books.
Marc:And I said, thank you.
Marc:And I looked at the books.
Marc:And maybe before I get to that, I should say that I am a man, despite the fact that I may talk honestly with you, who is in a lot of fear of a lot of things.
Marc:And fear is really a waste of time unless it's practical.
Marc:I had the guys come over today.
Marc:They were fixing the alarm because one of the zones was out.
Marc:And I had that moment where the alarm went off at 2, 3 in the morning.
Marc:I shut it off.
Marc:Got back into bed.
Marc:Tried to sleep.
Marc:Couldn't.
Marc:Took a walk around the house because I knew there were some problems with the arm.
Marc:Then it went off again.
Marc:And now in the middle of the night, I'm wandering around defenseless.
Marc:And I had those same thoughts we all do.
Marc:Who's going to help me?
Marc:How am I going to defend myself?
Marc:What if someone came in right now?
Marc:What if they bound and gagged me and set me down on my knees and perhaps shot me in the head or perhaps raped my cats in front of me?
Marc:I mean, there's a lot of things that could happen.
Marc:Obviously, I went to town with the imagination.
Marc:But the point I'm trying to make is that I felt very alone and very unsafe.
Marc:And I realized that even if I called the cops, when would they get there?
Marc:And when the alarm does go off, they call you first and then they call the neighbor and then they call the cops.
Marc:I mean, what the hell good is it?
Marc:And then I had that thought that we all have.
Marc:It's like, maybe I ought to get a gun.
Marc:And then I thought, no, because a gun will just be sitting there.
Marc:How are you not going to play with it?
Marc:How are you not going to look at it?
Marc:How are you not going to, you know, toy with it?
Marc:How are you not going to have that morning where you're like, all right, you know what I mean?
Marc:If I'm meant to live, then this bullet, the one I put in the chamber after I spin it will not go through my temple.
Marc:Maybe not all of you had that problem.
Marc:But I live in a lot of fear.
Marc:I live in a lot of emotional fear.
Marc:I know this isn't funny.
Marc:But, you know, I was going over, you know, the relationship that I, you know, I was shared with you guys with that with that woman who who had mental problems that I thought were different than mine.
Marc:But you know what?
Marc:I'm a lunatic.
Marc:And I said I wasn't going to talk about her and I ended up talking about her and then she ended up contacting me.
Marc:And, yeah, I felt I owed her an explanation for my behavior at the end of that relationship, for the dramatics, for the extreme actions.
Marc:And then she said that, you know, she heard the podcast.
Marc:And I felt fucking awful.
Marc:I tell you guys everything.
Marc:I don't know what the hell to keep to myself.
Marc:And I hurt her feelings and I felt bad.
Marc:And, you know, and maybe I was wrong about her.
Marc:But I'm talking to her a little bit now.
Marc:I'm trying to sort of put things into perspective because my heart was hurting about it.
Marc:Why am I going on about this?
Marc:Because she's no crazier than I am.
Marc:And a lot of times I do need help.
Marc:So I was getting to these books.
Marc:So I get a bunch of books from these women in Bloomington.
Marc:Okay, there's one, two, three, four, five books.
Marc:The first one, Quitting Smoking for Dummies.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'll take a look at it.
Marc:I don't smoke, but I like nicotine and I like it a lot and I don't want to lose it, but I know I have to because it's stupid.
Marc:Why do I need anything?
Marc:You know, but if I don't have nicotine, I start shoving shit into my mouth and food.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Here's the other book.
Marc:Vitamins for Dummies.
Marc:See, I need to take a look at this.
Marc:Vitamin D, vitamin A and beta.
Marc:Oh, it explains everything.
Marc:Maybe this will be a better resource than my crazy father.
Marc:Thank you for that book.
Marc:online dating for dummies i i think that is more of a statement than anything else but people have some success with that and i don't know if i'm going to get into that but i appreciate the gesture cats for dummies my cats are dummies and i'm a dummy for having them but i love them and i guess maybe i could learn a few new things in here i appreciate this this is all life fulfilling stuff
Marc:But yeah, I am a dummy with cats.
Marc:And then the biggest book, those three are like pamphlets compared to happiness for dummies.
Marc:Happiness for dummies.
Marc:I think dummies are generally happier than those of us who aren't dummies.
Marc:I'm no dummy.
Marc:I wish I were a dummy.
Marc:Let's hold on.
Marc:Let me flip through this.
Marc:How to avoid a midlife crisis.
Marc:All right.
Marc:How engaged are you?
Marc:Very.
Marc:Are you living an honest life?
Marc:Eh, you know, a little bit.
Marc:Sometimes, you know, you can't be honest about everything.
Marc:Am I right, people?
Marc:Oh, here, this one's good.
Marc:The four basic ingredients.
Marc:The foundation for true happiness consists of four basic ingredients.
Marc:A feeling of safety.
Marc:No.
Marc:Not with this alarm system.
Marc:A sense of satiation.
Marc:What the hell is that?
Marc:In simple terms, satiation means being full.
Marc:A happy person is someone who, at least at this moment, is full.
Marc:Not unless I got two nicotine badges on and I just ate some ice cream.
Marc:Shit.
Marc:So that's, I can't check those two boxes.
Marc:A sense of perspective.
Marc:Oh, fuck, I don't know.
Marc:I don't do, I don't know.
Marc:I mean, I see things the way I see them in my life.
Marc:I've not found that that is always the right way.
Marc:Clearly, my point of view is not the best point of view.
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:I'm 0 for 3.
Marc:Is that how you say that?
Marc:I'm not a sports guy.
Marc:Quietude.
Marc:Please.
Marc:That's it?
Marc:Quietude is the last one?
Marc:I can barely handle any quiet.
Marc:I avoid it.
Marc:If it's quiet, my brain starts making noise.
Marc:The four basic ingredients.
Marc:So I don't even have the four basic ingredients.
Marc:I'm not even prepared to start baking happiness.
Marc:I got to go to the fucking store to get a feeling of safety, a sense of satiation, a sense of perspective and quietude.
Marc:I don't even have the right equipment to fucking make happiness.
Marc:I got to let that go.
Marc:Because a lot of shit we concern ourselves about is just shit our brain is making up.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:We're both smoking.
Marc:I'm smoking a cigar.
Marc:I want my listeners to know that.
Marc:But you're smoking a cigarette.
Guest:Yeah, it's got to stop, too.
Marc:Does it?
Guest:I'm getting too old.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But how long have you been saying that?
Guest:Well, I did stop for four years.
Guest:And then, honestly, I stopped again.
Guest:And then we went back to Afghanistan and Iraq again before Christmas.
Guest:And I couldn't stand it.
Guest:So the only thing that brings me pure joy is cigarettes.
Marc:This is Kathleen Madigan in my garage.
Marc:I'm not gonna call you a legend because I don't like to be called that.
Guest:No, that would be creepy, right?
Marc:Well, no, some people say that legend, Mark, legends are dead.
Guest:Right, or very old and they don't even know they're being called one.
Marc:Right, or it's like, where's he been?
Guest:Yeah, what are you doing if you're a legend?
Guest:Yeah, no, legend's not good either.
Marc:Can I say the hardest work in comic and show business?
Guest:That I'll take, yes, that I'll take.
Guest:I do, I have 23 years.
Guest:I had a mental breakdown this week in the airport.
Marc:Which airport?
Guest:O'Hare.
Guest:I was supposed to be going to D.C.
Guest:to do the bird smear, and it turned into a 25-hour travel day because of snow, and I just needed 15 minutes to cry.
Guest:Then I regrouped.
Marc:Where'd you cry?
Marc:Did you go to a bathroom?
Marc:Did you hide your tears?
Guest:No, right in O'Hare.
Guest:I just sat down in a chair and thought, right now I need a timeout.
Guest:I need to put myself in timeout before I get on this BlackBerry again and find another flight and call American and blah, blah, blah.
Marc:Any concerned people come up and go, no, no one cares.
Guest:Everybody's like, stay away from the crying lady.
Guest:She's gone crazy.
Guest:And they should, because I've been doing this 23 damn years, and this is it.
Guest:I need a tour bus.
Guest:I need to live on the East Coast.
Guest:This is ridiculous.
Guest:Why can't my dad just drive me around in a van?
Guest:I mean, I came up with so many alternatives to flying.
Marc:Why can't my dad just drive me around in the van?
Marc:I really thought about it.
Guest:I thought, he's retired.
Guest:They live in St.
Guest:Louis.
Guest:He's got nothing else to do.
Guest:I buy a big, giant RV.
Guest:Could you handle that?
Guest:Yes, my dad's totally fun.
Guest:Throw my mom in the front seat.
Guest:They can go gamble.
Guest:They'll find the casino.
Guest:It'd just be like when you were a kid.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:We're going to go on a trip.
Guest:It'd be like the first 10 years of comedy, but I have drivers.
Marc:Oh, your parents.
Guest:Instead of me driving myself.
Marc:I could not imagine being in a car with my parents at this age.
Guest:I laugh my ass off.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Seriously.
Guest:They're seriously funny.
Guest:They don't mean to be.
Guest:They just are.
Marc:So you can just laugh right at them and they don't mind?
Guest:Yeah, right in their face.
Guest:I call them out on all of it.
Guest:They don't care.
Marc:So you started smoking again in Afghanistan.
Guest:Yeah, it was just... And then one guy had the nerve on a forward operating base to go, ma'am...
Guest:Mind you, there's no toilets, there's no showers, there's no sinks to wash your teeth.
Guest:It's just tense.
Guest:He goes, ma'am, this isn't a smoking area.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Afghanistan isn't?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Why don't you look at the ground?
Guest:This whole country is an ashtray, sir.
Guest:I haven't seen a floor in 13 days.
Guest:I don't think it matters where the hell I smoke in this shithole.
Guest:I think I can just smoke.
Marc:You do a lot of those, right?
Guest:I've done two.
Guest:Oh, just two?
Guest:Yeah, but I mean, I've done stuff at home, but over there, two.
Marc:And what's your experience like?
Marc:Because I've only talked to a couple of comics that do it, and I've not obviously been asked to do it.
Marc:I don't know that I'm the right comic for that job.
Marc:You know what?
Guest:You would be, because Lewis goes, and we don't really... Lewis Black, did you go with him?
Guest:Yeah, and Robin Williams went this year, the year before, John Bowman...
Guest:I think comic-wise it was Me, Lou, and John.
Guest:And then they always throw a country singer in there.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I mean, they're so happy to see you.
Guest:They're the best crowds.
Guest:I mean, no crowd at home will ever seem as good as those people who are standing in the cold for two hours to wait for what's going to be a three-hour show plus, freezing their asses off.
Guest:But I don't know that I could do it again.
Marc:Did you have any emotional reaction to the situation?
Marc:I mean, did you get a sense of what they were up against or how they were feeling?
Guest:Yeah, well, they're very upbeat.
Guest:Like at that Marine base where there's no toilets, no showers.
Guest:I'm not kidding.
Guest:You go to the bathroom in the bag, throw the bag on a pile.
Guest:They set that on fire.
Guest:That's the bathroom, right?
Guest:Really?
Guest:And I said-
Guest:God, this is awful.
Guest:And one of the 20-something guys was like, ma'am, it's not that bad.
Guest:I'm like, where were you raised?
Guest:Like, in a well?
Marc:This is horrible.
Marc:We do this at home.
Marc:We do shit in a bag and throw it on the pile.
Marc:Where are you from?
Guest:Like, are you just putting on a front to seem... But they're very gung-ho.
Guest:I think a lot of them think that it's... There's no winning.
Guest:You know, like, one of the bases... It's just a job.
Guest:It's a job.
Guest:It's a gig, and you try to do what you can.
Guest:They do it well.
Guest:I mean, they do everything they can, but they were like, I'm from St.
Guest:Louis originally, and there was this contingent of 300 Missouri National Guard people in Afghanistan, and they had their own little barracks that said to show me state.
Guest:I was like, oh, what's going on over here?
Guest:And they go, well, our job is to teach the locals how to farm.
Guest:We're trying to, because my Missouri people are farmer critter people, right?
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Guest:And I go, he goes, you know, teach me irrigation and how to grow short corn, and I go, are they interested?
Guest:And they're like, not really.
Guest:They just kind of stare at me.
Guest:they've been growing opium for centuries make a lot more money on the poppy sir we don't really care about your corn that's gonna get me what a dollar an ear if i'm lucky like no they're told they're completely disinterested but he goes you know we go out and try every day and we do what we can and maybe something will resonate except their limitations and just do their gig yeah it's just a gig for them did you get out and see afghanistan at all
Guest:Overhead and Blackhawks.
Guest:And then we drove through the city of Kabul, which makes Tijuana look like Vegas.
Guest:I mean, it's a fifth world.
Guest:What if you would say, you know, parts of Mexico are a third world, not even this is a fifth.
Marc:Are they under Sharia law, too?
Marc:I mean, so it's not even as interesting on an assorted level as Tijuana, I would think.
Marc:I mean, aren't they not allowed to do just about anything?
Marc:Isn't it a Muslim country for the most part?
Guest:Oh, it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's no alcohol.
Guest:There's no all that stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, we were dying for alcohol.
Guest:There's no there's no drinks to be found.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's weird because you look at Mexico and Mexico is just like, you know, fucked so hard in certain ways that, you know, Tijuana is just this shit fest of like sordid behavior.
Marc:And it's almost like Afghanistan on some level might have a little more integrity morally on that.
Guest:But I think the difference is alcohol.
Guest:And I'm not even kidding.
Guest:Like, no joking.
Guest:I think if we shipped, like, 17 aircraft carriers full of margaritas over there and told everybody to have a drink and simmer down, everybody relax.
Guest:How can you relax, like, when you're in this crazy government state and there's war everywhere and there's just no way you can have a cocktail?
Guest:I mean, maybe they smoke opium.
Guest:I don't know what they do to relax and to chill out.
Marc:Opium is very relaxing, I hear.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I've never smoked it.
Guest:I'm much too good of a Catholic, well-behaved girl.
Marc:You would never have left Afghanistan if you had smoked opium.
Marc:Really?
Marc:You would have disappeared into the hills and just sat in the hut.
Guest:Just met somebody's wife in a burka, just happy as long as I have it.
Marc:What happened to Kathleen Madigan?
Marc:You mean the legend that became the Afghani opium addict who now lives in Afghanistan?
Guest:You mean the least hardworking comedian in show business?
Guest:She's in a cave in Kabul and loves it.
Marc:How does that Catholicism still hold on?
Marc:It holds on.
Marc:How does it hold on?
Guest:It can't stop.
Guest:It was 12 years of complete brainwashing.
Marc:I look at the Catholic Church.
Marc:I talk about it a little bit on stage.
Marc:After all that church has been through, and it's fairly public, that they are not on the level.
Marc:They've always been a money-making operation and just a cabal of pedophiles.
Marc:Yet Catholics who are probably lapsed Catholics still have this nostalgia for a mindfuck that doesn't enable them to experience life without guilt and weirdness.
Guest:That's correct.
Guest:And I think it's because if you take the church outside of it, you know, one-on-one when you're a kid, you're only dealing with the nun who every day wrote on the board, God, others, yourself, like in that order.
Guest:So every day you see that phrase and parentheses, he can see everything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Okay, God.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Right now he's watching us.
Guest:Yes, he knows I'm in Mark's garage.
Guest:He knows I'm smoking a cigarette.
Marc:And he's happy that you still feel shitty about things.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Marc:Look at Kathleen.
Marc:She hasn't left the fold really.
Guest:There's not much like the crazy bad things I've done in my life.
Guest:Let's not even call them bad.
Guest:Let's call them off the hook things I've done.
Guest:I have to call my Jewish friends and then they talk me off the ledge.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Come on, one good example of a panicky call from Kathleen.
Marc:I just fucked a 22-year-old.
Guest:Getting way too drunk on the road, going to Mexico in the middle of the night, things, bad things, things that I shouldn't be doing, especially at certain ages.
Guest:I'm like, really?
Guest:At the time, I'm like, I'm 35, and I did this, and I don't know how to get home, and what is wrong with me?
Guest:And then I think, now that I've done this,
Guest:Now bad things are going to happen.
Marc:Now, is it wrong?
Marc:Am I wrong in thinking that if a guy did that, it would just be another weekend on the road?
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:But then I'll call Lewis and he'll be like, you carry that guilt around.
Guest:There's nothing wrong with what you did.
Guest:You're an adult.
Guest:You get to choose what you want to do.
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, but you know, everything went off the rails because I did that the month before.
Guest:So this is a ricochet from that.
Marc:Oh, so you put it, you connect everything together.
Marc:Yes, it's all connected.
Marc:Yeah, connect the dots.
Marc:And the final puzzle is Kathleen's an asshole.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Marc:And that and on top of that is a cross.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:Yes, I can't.
Guest:Like, I don't even believe what the Catholic Church believes anymore.
Guest:But that's not the point.
Guest:They're two separate issues.
Guest:Like, I don't believe hell and heaven.
Guest:I don't think about any of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think about the karma thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Although I think there's so many people that I think deserve a quick kick in the karma ass and I never see it occur.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Then I think, well, why is it only happening to me?
Marc:Well, I thought that, too.
Marc:But then again, are you God?
Marc:Are you seeing them all the time?
Marc:Do you know what they're thinking and what they're doing all the time?
Marc:Maybe karma is chipping away at them in its own little way.
Guest:At some other part of their life that we don't see.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Maybe as you're saying, how can that person still have all of that inside?
Marc:There's a little cancerous cell going, wait, just wait.
Marc:Who the hell knows?
Marc:You just want it to be more satisfying.
Guest:I would like it to be a much larger, available piece of information.
Marc:I've talked about it before.
Marc:You want a karma Google alert.
Marc:You should have a list of people that you think deserve karma return, and then you get a little thing on your computer.
Marc:It's like so-and-so has just received their karma.
Guest:Because that's a really Catholic thing, too, is there are a few people really on my shit list, and I've had the opportunity to actually
Guest:I actively screw with their career, but I haven't done it because I think, no, because God is going to take care of this.
Guest:The universe will take care of it.
Guest:And if I meddle in it, then I'm just going to mess up the plan.
Guest:But I never see the plan come true.
Marc:But wait a minute.
Marc:So you think God is somehow there to execute your vendettas?
Yes.
Guest:Well, not God.
Guest:I would say this one goes to the universe of balance.
Marc:Okay, so now we're mixing God with the Buddha thing.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:But you are the arbiter of who should and shouldn't receive karma in this way.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Marc:So you're stepping in for God, which God has a problem with, and maybe your karma is that they will never receive their karma.
Guest:That's why I don't do it.
Guest:That's why I don't step in.
Guest:When I actively have a chance to really, really do something bad, I begrudgingly pass.
Marc:I don't want names of who the people are, but what is a bad thing that you have fantasized about doing?
Guest:Well, totally blocking someone from a job that I know that if I put a call in, that person wouldn't be hired.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then I think, nah, leave it alone.
Guest:Now you're getting too involved.
Guest:I hate it, though, when people go, it's just a waste of energy to be angry.
Guest:No, it's not.
Guest:No, it's not.
Guest:No, it's not.
Guest:It's a natural reaction.
Guest:And if you bottle it up the Irish Catholic way, you just become a full-blown alcoholic by 50 instead of a functioning alcoholic by 50.
Marc:But what we learned, though, what I learned, though, with the anger thing is that because like and I'm just I just started thinking about this recently because like I get some sometimes I get something on the Internet.
Marc:Somebody will send me something or someone will tweet something like who the fuck is that guy in his little world with a very small life sitting at home saying shitty things about me and it hurts my feelings, which is retarded.
Marc:But it does.
Marc:I got you know, I got feelings.
Marc:But then I started to really think.
Marc:about our lives like I've lived in four cities I've been a touring comedian somewhat not as not as much as you but I tour for years and years can you even think about as an angry person just how many lives you have have you have rippled somehow I mean you seem to be a good way or a bad way
Marc:Well, I'm thinking bad, of course, because I thought that's sort of what we were talking about.
Marc:But you seem a little too guilty to be that bad.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, no, no, I wouldn't.
Marc:But I think just out of even just a little anger in terms of the energy that we put into being angry, just exuding that shit to somebody that doesn't deserve it, you can create a memorable experience where they walk away going, that guy's a fucking douchebag, and then you're a douchebag for the rest of their life in their mind.
Marc:Right, forever.
Marc:Yeah, and I put that out there.
Marc:And some people forever hold grudges.
Marc:What about forgiveness, Madigan?
Guest:That doesn't come into play.
Guest:That's the problem.
Guest:And then the anger, even like I got something on YouTube.
Guest:I don't know, but I guess I have a YouTube channel.
Guest:Some lady does all that.
Guest:Some guy who's, what do you call it?
Guest:His screen name was Gunned Down Liberals.
Guest:And then it said something fucking cunt die shit die, right?
Marc:Very eloquent, these guys usually.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:And probably something was misspelled.
Guest:You know, I don't know.
Guest:I'm such a terrible speller.
Guest:Probably got by me.
Guest:But I sat around and I thought, you know, what kind of psycho.
Guest:First of all, your thing is gunned down liberals.
Guest:But even what's so crazy is I'm who you're talking to.
Guest:Have you already gone through Louis Black, Bill Maher?
Guest:I mean, politically, I'm not even that vocal.
Guest:And the politics I do do are even handed.
Guest:I'm not a big fan of either team.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I mean, I didn't want the tea party.
Marc:I think that's where the woman thing comes into play.
Marc:They won't attack.
Guest:But, I mean, do you understand how many comedians he had to go through to yell at before he got to me?
Marc:I think they're fundamentally those type of people.
Marc:And also just, you know, I talked to Garofalo, who was very, you know, politically.
Guest:Right, she probably gets five million of them.
Marc:But a lot of them hate her because she's a her.
Marc:I mean, it's half and half.
Marc:I think that for some reason in their minds, the fact that someone's a liberal is one thing.
Marc:But the fact that there's a woman who is even talking that much, I think, bothers them.
Guest:That might.
Guest:I mean, most of my people, even their screen names show you the level of the people who like me.
Guest:It's like retard monkey 66.
Guest:You're hilarious.
Guest:Of course he does because he's retard monkey 66.
Guest:But it's all happy.
Guest:It's all pleasant.
Guest:It's not like I don't like the confrontation.
Guest:I don't want to fight with people.
Guest:I don't like that.
Guest:I don't like to rile people up like, no, I just want you to laugh.
Marc:So where's all this anger you're talking about?
Guest:Well, it's the bottled up things about usually work.
Guest:It's not usually the fans.
Marc:Do you ever yell or are you passive aggressive?
Marc:What do you do?
Guest:I'm never passive aggressive.
Guest:No, I'm Irish Catholic.
Guest:I get really angry and then I just drink till I forget about it.
Guest:You just sit down and have another drink.
Guest:There's no expressing your feelings.
Marc:But what does somebody do to piss you off like that to where you would think about denying someone work?
Marc:Does someone steal from you?
Guest:Yeah, stealing from me.
Guest:Well, there was a particular manager that I won't name that really hijacked a lot of stuff that I've had to unravel.
Guest:It's taken me years.
Guest:It's taken me a lot of money, like stuff like that.
Guest:And it had to do with the CDs and DVDs.
Guest:So you got to get out of this deal to get into another deal.
Guest:And then.
Guest:then I become like a mini version of Prince and I want to put a tattoo of a tear, a comedy tear.
Guest:Just Kathleen.
Guest:No wonder Prince was so mad.
Guest:This is bullshit.
Guest:I'm just a dumb ass comic.
Guest:Like he's probably lost zillions of dollars.
Guest:I got 12 people in Omaha looking forward to this CD.
Guest:And my mom promised her her doctor one and now I can't make one.
Guest:I mean, I mean, my problems are so minimal.
Guest:Um,
Marc:Isn't it weird how we can make them global?
Guest:Other stuff, a couple comics that I just think have behaved in really appalling ways that I would like to see really, really crash and burn.
Marc:Yeah, and they haven't yet?
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, a couple are, the stars are fading.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yes, yes, yes.
Guest:The ticket sales are going down.
Marc:that's what happened well the faster you rise the faster you fall i do believe that and i don't even think that's karma i just think that's work put in but you but also you're uh uh an interesting in in terms of your career that there's only a few of of the people that maintain a career as well as you have that that people that you know may not be huge household names but like people like you brian reagan gaffigan that people that can fill small theaters or larger theaters and have continued working for 10 or 15 20 years i mean that's something that's
Guest:That's because we, I swear to God, there's a group like because Lou has that comedy cruise where he's like, we need somebody at your level that will say yes, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And it's like there's this group of us, Bill Burr, I would throw into that group.
Guest:There's only like 10 of us that are running around doing theaters right now on a consistent basis.
Guest:But the one thing in common, I mean, yeah, everybody's funny, but nobody ever quit.
Guest:Nobody ever took a side job writing for two years.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I'm not saying that's bad.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But if you do that, the odds are you're going to fall out of the loop somehow.
Guest:And it's hard to get back in the loop.
Marc:I did radio for a year and a half and I wasn't even that big of a touring act before that.
Marc:And it's sort of like shut the shit down.
Guest:It does.
Marc:I also had no idea that you had to be nice to, you know, waitresses and club owners.
Guest:Yeah, that's kind of part of you.
Marc:You know, I always thought, like, it's me time.
Marc:You know, I can do as much time as I want.
Marc:I don't have to be nice to you people.
Marc:I had no idea that it was a separate business.
Guest:And I am the polar opposite.
Guest:I am so Midwest Union.
Guest:How much time is to say on the contract I'm doing?
Guest:45 minutes.
Guest:I do 4459.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, to me.
Marc:When I was told I had to do 45 minutes the other day, I'm like, that's it?
Marc:I was thrilled.
Marc:Because in my mind, headlining is like, I'll do 50 at the least, right?
Marc:In an hour if I can, I'll probably do an hour 15.
Marc:And they're like, you just have to do 45.
Marc:And I actually felt bad about it.
Guest:See that?
Guest:I would never do more than I'm getting paid for.
Guest:That's where the union Midwest-y comes in, though.
Guest:We made a deal, motherfucker.
Guest:And why would I talk one more minute if you're not paying me for one more minute?
Marc:Do you come from a union family?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, all pipe fitter people.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Clocking in people.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:You do the job you get paid for and then you go home.
Guest:And then on top of that, the polar opposite of you, I'm the lady that wants to drink with the staff because I'm bored.
Guest:I'm like, nobody's staying for beers?
Marc:Seriously?
Guest:I want to talk to you guys.
Marc:I used to be that guy.
Marc:What's going on in Nashville?
Marc:I will definitely drink with the staff.
Guest:Well, that's being nice to them.
Marc:But I don't drink anymore.
Marc:I think I've become somewhat aloof in the sense that I don't really drink.
Marc:At the end, I've become very nice.
Marc:I don't do that shit anymore.
Marc:I'm not an asshole.
Marc:But usually at the bar afterwards, if the wait staff is, I'll be like, thanks.
Marc:Was I funny?
Marc:Okay, bye.
Marc:Well, that's enough.
Guest:I don't think you have to be me and be the last one at Zany's at three in the morning.
Marc:It's better to be pleasant and needy than shit-faced and needy, I think.
Guest:Correct.
Guest:Yes, it is.
Guest:But that's the other thing, too.
Guest:I'm just a nicer drunk.
Guest:The more I drink, just the sillier I get.
Guest:It never turns some weird corner where they're like, oh, my God, I can't lean down to this total bitch at the bar.
Guest:Crazy shit.
Guest:It was weird.
Guest:It shouldn't seem like that.
Guest:And then she was like, fuck Zanies.
Marc:Fuck all of you.
Marc:I can get that way without drinking.
Guest:I think because I waited tables, too, I do always tip the staff.
Marc:You waited tables?
Guest:For 10 years, yeah.
Marc:Where?
Guest:St.
Guest:Louis.
Marc:At a comedy club or at a restaurant?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:No, but I was always jealous.
Guest:Once I got into a comedy club, I was like, are you shitting me?
Guest:I could have been working here making 200 bucks in two hours.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I was at some steakhouse, you know, carrying out 15 plates and just slopped to people.
Marc:When did you start?
Marc:How old were you when you started?
Guest:23, when I started comedy.
Yeah.
Guest:Let me borrow your lighter.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:It's way over there and I can't reach.
Guest:I was 23, but I waited tables from 13 to 23.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I worked in restaurants.
Guest:I bartended.
Guest:I did all of it, but the waiting tables was the worst.
Guest:That's why when I see those servers, I think at the end of the week, only when I started making good money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I couldn't afford to do it.
Guest:But when I could afford to do it, even if it's 10 bucks a piece and there's 10 of them, it's 100 bucks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Big deal.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they are so appreciative.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:And then they would say that Marc Maron bastard never gave us a nickel.
Guest:No, I'm kidding.
Marc:I tip the staff.
Marc:It took me a long time to learn that, too.
Marc:I'm kidding.
Marc:They never said that.
Marc:No, I know.
Guest:But they do remember who does tip.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, like, and I don't even drink, but I'll give him 20, 30 bucks.
Guest:And then if you say, like, you know, the next time I'll come back, guys, your check drop was awesome.
Guest:I didn't hear a word.
Guest:They remember that.
Guest:And then we do the check drop.
Guest:I mean, I don't really do clubs anymore.
Guest:But if I had to go back, which we all will eventually.
Marc:I got mad at a check.
Marc:I got mad at a waiter.
Marc:And I don't really, you know, I'm not that guy in the sense that, like, I understand.
Marc:I'm more, you know, like you than you think.
Marc:But there was a waiter who had the tables that were right up front.
Marc:And he was fucking, you know, he was talking out loud during the show.
Marc:He was slamming cups down.
Marc:Like, you know, I could hear it like twice.
Marc:I'm like, are you kidding me?
Guest:I've seen that on the road, too, are the really loud ones.
Guest:I don't have your change.
Guest:Hey, hey, Mindy, can you bring it down about eight notches?
Guest:We all heard that.
Guest:I have change.
Guest:I'll make change for him if you go away now.
Marc:Yeah, so I don't have to do it in the middle of this joke.
Guest:Why don't you let me settle your whole section?
Guest:I'll go through all eight tables and do that, Bill.
Marc:That's weird because, you know, that was the last job I had.
Marc:That was the last real job I had was a restaurant job, service industry job.
Guest:And what's weird is that's the only job I have nightmares about.
Guest:I never dream about stand-up comedy.
Marc:You still have nightmares about waitressing?
Guest:Yeah, that I'm in the smoking section.
Guest:It's completely full.
Guest:The non-smoking waiter section people can't help me because they're not allowed.
Guest:That's all made up in my head.
Guest:They can't go in that section.
Guest:I'm completely swamped.
Guest:There's a two-hour wait.
Guest:Oh, it goes on and on and on.
Marc:And you actively dream that you're not going to get orders out and that somebody sends somebody back.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And that I'm at the adding machine going, you know, I was on The Tonight Show and stuff.
Guest:I don't understand how I ended up back here.
Guest:And this is just, I guess it didn't work out.
Guest:I mean, it's clearly now.
Guest:It's not a flashback nightmare of then.
Guest:It's me now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, that's always the bottom thing if it doesn't work out.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's not a nightmare.
Marc:That's just about like, you know, not finishing.
Marc:You're not graduating.
Marc:It's like you now not going back.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the only what is the alternative plan?
Marc:That's hilarious.
Marc:So the added horror of the nightmare is that like, how did I get back here?
Guest:Yes, I was on a roll.
Guest:I thought I mean, everything was going fine.
Guest:And I guess it just didn't pan out.
Marc:How did Louis Black become your your confidant and moral arbiter?
Marc:He is my moral arbiter.
Guest:I worked with him, well, when I was 24 at Catch a Rising Star in Chicago, which was so bad.
Guest:That Catch a Rising Star was in the Hyatt.
Guest:And when you went to the computer in the Hyatt and pressed in comedy, that club didn't come up.
Guest:But Zanies did, the Funny Firm did, the Improv did, because I really didn't know where the club was.
Guest:Did you move to Chicago?
Guest:No, I was living in St.
Guest:Louis at the time, just living on the road for 10 years.
Guest:So that's where I met him.
Guest:And then we went out for a while.
Marc:You dated Louis Wack?
Guest:Yeah, for a long time.
Marc:Why didn't I know that?
Marc:I need to have more comedy gossip.
Guest:I guess no one cared because nobody cared about Lou.
Guest:Nobody cared about me at the time.
Marc:It's weird that as mad as he is on stage, you get off stage with him.
Marc:He's the sweetest guy in the world.
Guest:He's so sweet.
Guest:Yeah, nothing except playing golf.
Guest:He can turn into that guy.
Marc:Oh, I'd love to see Louis on a golf course doing that guy.
Guest:Well, it's as you have said maybe about some of your behavior.
Guest:His has gotten better.
Guest:over the years but i mean i have seen him lose it on a golf but it's kind of funny because i know you play golf yeah lou would never be like a really i've played golf with some guys with tempers where it's almost like holy shit like this totally isn't fun anymore we play anything with guys or there are tempers where it's like holy shit softball golf lose is always more like
Guest:complete disillusionment and frustration.
Guest:With the world?
Guest:Yeah, and he whipped a nine iron in Florida.
Guest:It was a par three, and the ball went into it.
Guest:Empty swimming pool, it bounced, and a Doberman ate it.
Guest:And he's like, how does that even happen?
Guest:That's never happened in the history of golfing.
Guest:And he whipped the golf club into a swamp that said environmentally protected alligator habitat.
Guest:And he goes, we're going to get the club.
Guest:I said, really, Mr. Afraid of a Squirrel.
Guest:We're going to challenge an alligator for a $90 pitching wedge or a nine hour.
Guest:I said, you can take the card over there, but I'm not going.
Guest:I'm going to, Oh, well, Mrs. Mrs. Hillbilly Midwest.
Guest:So tough around animals.
Guest:You're not going to go.
Guest:No, I'm not.
Guest:It's 90 goddamn dollars, Lou.
Guest:We can find a used one probably for 40.
Marc:Where is this show?
Marc:Why is it not on television?
Guest:He,
Marc:Why aren't you two on television together?
Marc:I pictured all of that.
Guest:I couldn't believe it.
Guest:We're both smoking and yelling at each other.
Guest:That's fucking glorious.
Guest:Of all the times you want to get really guy manly, you're going to face an alligator.
Marc:Why aren't you and Louis Black on television as a couple?
Guest:I...
Guest:No one's asked us.
Guest:What the fuck is that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:We spend an inordinate amount of time together.
Guest:I'll be in his apartment next Wednesday.
Guest:In New York?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I have to do Joey Behar and all this crap on Thursday.
Guest:And I thought he was leaving and I have keys to his place and he has keys to my place here and we switch.
Guest:Now you're still dating.
Marc:But he's not leaving.
Marc:I mean, where is this at?
Marc:No.
Marc:Come on.
Guest:He's too... Lou's too independent.
Guest:No, you know what's weird, though?
Marc:You're both touring comics.
Marc:What does that mean?
Guest:That's the problem.
Guest:It turned into Barfly minus the violence ad gambling.
Guest:It was just us walking home with bottles of wine and cigarettes.
Guest:But it was even a good breakup.
Marc:I don't know what your personal life is like, but he doesn't drink like he used to.
Marc:I mean, that I could tell.
Guest:He doesn't drink scotch.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Let's categorize it.
Guest:He stopped with the scotch.
Guest:But no, we will sit around and drink an inordinate amount of wine.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And smoke way too many cigarettes.
Guest:And then I think, well, if he's 18 years older than me and he's still smoking, I can still smoke.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:That's what's terrible for me being around him.
Marc:So he's not that great a moral judgment guy.
Guest:No, it's terrible.
Guest:It's literally walking into a bar flag going, everything's fine.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You guys are so in love.
Guest:I do love them.
Guest:But no, that was why initially we broke up.
Guest:It's like, what is the point of having this relationship when we don't see each other?
Guest:And then it's what?
Guest:Am I going to move to New York?
Guest:Why?
Guest:So you can go on the road and then I'm sitting here doing what?
Guest:Drinking.
Guest:Drinking.
Guest:Waiting for you.
Guest:Waiting to yell.
Guest:Waiting for you to hit big and we get a better apartment.
Guest:He's already done that.
Guest:So you could.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now he's got the great apartment.
Guest:Well, then do it now.
Guest:I told him, I said, you're the only comic that I've ever been in love with.
Guest:I should write a book how I fucked my way to the bottom because I was only with you when you were poor.
Guest:Now you've got all this money and you're fancy and you got a tour bus.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Does he have a tour bus?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is it black?
Guest:you know no it's dark brown but that's the most fun like we ride if john his opener can't go and i'm off i'll go open for him for fun yeah just to drive across canada but the tour bus it's awesome we get on we turn on the golf we stop at cracker barrel there's no tsa we can smoke on the bus because he leased it and said i'm a smoker they don't care yeah it's the best way to travel ever i think that's the show lewis and you on a tour bus
Marc:Smoking and stopping to play dog.
Guest:Until one of us dies on air.
Marc:It's a battle to the death.
Guest:And it will be me.
Guest:I will have the stroke and then he won't want to deal with the rehab.
Guest:It'll just put me in some place.
Guest:We have agreed, though, to go into assisted living together.
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Only if it happens at the same time that you need it at the same time.
Guest:Well, we figure it will.
Marc:Do you have family that would take care of you?
Guest:He's way healthier, and his parents are 92, and they're fine.
Marc:Oh, so he's got the genes.
Guest:He's got the good Russian Jewish genes.
Marc:The Jewish genes, yeah.
Marc:The good Jew genes.
Marc:And you got what?
Guest:The faulty Irish?
Guest:I got the stroke at 72, and you're out Irish genes.
Marc:That's it?
Marc:Done?
Guest:Yeah, nobody even stays around long enough for cancer or anything like that.
Guest:It's just a big bam, and you're out.
Guest:And not even like a stroke you can rehab from.
Marc:You're dumb for an hour and that's it?
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:You're gone.
Marc:You are gone.
Marc:I guess there's something to be said for that.
Guest:I'm okay with that.
Guest:It's a gift.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Are your parents still alive or they're not?
Marc:Yeah, they're alive.
Guest:They're 70, but they're not fine.
Marc:They're not like his parents.
Guest:They're not fine, fine.
Guest:They've had so much cancer lopped off of them.
Guest:They're like Monty Python characters.
Guest:We just keep lopping more.
Guest:My dad's got a divot in his arm.
Guest:That's gone.
Guest:My mom had breast cancer.
Guest:We just keep lopping things off.
Guest:Then they're fine for a year, and then something else comes up, but they drank and smoked forever.
Guest:I mean, my dad, not so much to drink her.
Guest:My mom really, really- Boozed it up.
Guest:Oh, she officially has been put on the bench.
Guest:She hasn't drank in 15 years.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Out of the game, Madigan!
Guest:And you hate to lose somebody on the team.
Guest:As an Irish Catholic family, you want to go, can't you just moderate?
Guest:Can't you get a handle on it?
Guest:You hate to see somebody get off the team.
Marc:Now we all got to feel guilty.
Guest:Now we all got to feel weird about the fact we had two bottles of wine and you're not having any.
Marc:So you used to drink with your folks?
Guest:Well, no, I was too little.
Guest:I mean, I wasn't drinking with them, but no.
Guest:She's been on the bench, and a good bench player for 20 years.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Like just cold turkey on the bench?
Marc:Or AA on the bench?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:AA on the bench, psych ward, yeah, you name it.
Guest:The full ride?
Guest:She sent me a birthday card on my 40th birthday, and she goes, happy birthday, enjoy your 40s.
Guest:I don't remember mine, but from what your father says, I was a terror.
Guest:Love, mom.
Guest:like we can actually totally joke about it and stuff but it was a she's half german so it can you don't yeah i mean you get the alcohol on her and i'm like why can't you just be a fun drunk like uncle jim and uncle neil they're just funny yeah yeah yeah yeah what's going on crazy german yeah yeah german sides coming out yeah barking out orders but when you were a kid was she was sober already
Marc:Mm-mm.
Marc:So you remember that bullshit?
Marc:Sober till 10.
Guest:Then drunk from 10 to 20.
Marc:The insanity of it?
Marc:You remember it?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Crazy.
Guest:Off the hook.
Guest:Crazy.
Guest:And my dad would go, she's just sad.
Guest:She's just sad.
Guest:It was so Irish Catholic.
Guest:Like, we're not going to talk about this.
Guest:We're going to act like it's not happening.
Guest:I'm like, she drove the truck through the garage door, Dad.
Guest:Just because you're sad, you don't do that.
Guest:Something else is going on.
Guest:I'm just saying something else.
Guest:Well, that was an issue.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe it's the brakes on the truck.
Guest:Denial, denial, denial.
Marc:Maybe it's the brakes on the truck.
Guest:Yeah, he really said, I'll have to check out that truck.
Guest:Okay, Dad.
Marc:Okay, Jack.
Marc:But was it like to the point where you couldn't bring friends over?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:There was none of that.
Guest:It was like, no, you don't want to meet my mom.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Not after 2 p.m.
Guest:Maybe you might want to meet her at 10.
Guest:I'd say she's got a good three-hour window where everything's kind of in focus.
Marc:But after that, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Marc:Oh, boy.
Marc:And you never wanted to stop drinking?
Guest:No, I've never gone into the area where I woke up and felt bad after gambling drinking.
Guest:What's this gambling thing?
Marc:I didn't realize you play poker professionally or no?
Guest:No, I don't play poker with people.
Guest:Video poker.
Marc:I'm an addict.
Marc:You're an addict to video poker.
Marc:Totally.
Guest:Only when I'm around it.
Marc:Do you play online?
Guest:No, because that's not for money, really.
Guest:I don't believe any of that.
Marc:No, okay.
Marc:You just go to casinos.
Guest:Well, like if I have a casino gig, that's when it can get crazy.
Guest:Lou, too.
Guest:But Lou's still so conservative.
Guest:I did a gig with him at Agua Caliente in Palm Springs, and he gets four aces.
Guest:Now, that should pay $800.
Guest:Well, he only had three bet.
Guest:I'm like, you're a millionaire.
Guest:I am not.
Guest:I am playing, you have to play the max.
Guest:He goes, well, I like my machine to get warmed up, and it doesn't really do magical things, so I've warmed it up.
Guest:I'm like, why are you waiting?
Guest:What are you waiting on?
Guest:You're a millionaire.
Guest:Where's the show?
Guest:No, the show should be the enabler.
Marc:Is that what it's called?
Guest:Yeah, it should come on before intervention.
Ha!
Guest:where I try to, he tries to trick people into drinking more and that smoking's okay, and then I try to get him to gamble and go, come on, what's life all about if you're not really playing max?
Marc:Gotta play it all.
Marc:That's what you say, push it, push the envelope.
Guest:Yeah, come on, live large, there's only 70 years here, what are you waiting on?
Marc:Do you leave gigs with no money because of video poker?
Guest:I have.
Guest:One time I did, a long time ago, remember when Laughlin had, there was an improv in the summers, but only in the summers in Laughlin they would make this room into an improv.
Guest:It was very creepy.
Marc:Improv never used me, so I don't know.
Guest:This was a rogue.
Marc:Not complaining.
Guest:This was a rogue improv.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, this wasn't part of the normal chain.
Guest:This was like a combo, I think, between Bud Friedman and Sandy Hackett.
Guest:It was...
Marc:Definitely rogue.
Marc:I haven't heard that name in a long time.
Marc:Buddy Hackett's son.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I kind of remember this.
Guest:He's still got rooms.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And sidetrack after this to Sammy Shore, the weirdest call last week I ever got.
Marc:Oh, no shit.
Marc:Okay, good.
Marc:I'll remember.
Marc:I'll remember.
Guest:But Laughlin, I lost so much money.
Guest:And I probably was only making $1,500 for the week.
Guest:And I lost so much that I was like in gambling prison.
Guest:I had to walk from my room to the showroom without going through the casino.
Guest:And I didn't have an ATM card.
Guest:There was no money left to be gotten.
Guest:I had to eat in the employee cafeteria because I didn't have any money.
Marc:Oh, those gigs are the worst.
Marc:It was bad.
Guest:It was bad.
Marc:The employee cafeteria.
Guest:Everything off the buffet that's been sitting there eight hours.
Marc:Do you really think everything about how much time we spend sitting in kitchens or walking through kitchens and show business?
Marc:It's sort of weird.
Guest:It's kind of.
Marc:And you really are closer to that job than you are to whatever you're performing for.
Guest:But that's why I think it's good to have waited tables beforehand because it doesn't seem any different.
Guest:It's not like we were executives at IBM where someone was ordering lunch out.
Guest:Oh, we have chin chins for lunch.
Guest:No, we don't.
Guest:No, we don't.
Guest:You're going to eat whatever they let you have off the employee menu.
Marc:I like it when I can go to a club where they'll actually let me pick at food in the back.
Guest:Yeah, they'll hand you a menu.
Marc:Where I can compulsively eat by the line area.
Guest:Correct.
Marc:Yeah, that I like.
Marc:And that's hard to come by.
Guest:Zany's in Nashville.
Guest:Pick it up.
Marc:I have to go back to Zany's.
Marc:I've not done Zany's.
Marc:So let's go back.
Marc:So you lose all your money.
Marc:You have this gambling problem.
Marc:Well, that was Laughlin.
Guest:But literally last week, this is where you're like, really?
Guest:I know better than to answer hotel phones.
Guest:Why would anyone be calling me on a hotel phone?
Guest:Everyone has my cell phone that I like or care about.
Guest:If that hotel phone rings, it's either some crazy fan because I forgot to put my name, changed my name, or it's some work thing that I don't want to have anything to do with.
Guest:And you can always just say, oh, I don't.
Guest:And my mom and dad had come, so I thought, well, maybe it's them.
Guest:And I pick it up.
Guest:Hey, sweetheart, how are you doing?
Guest:I was like, I'm fine.
Guest:I don't know who this is.
Guest:Who is this?
Guest:He goes, this is Sammy Shore.
Guest:You know who I am, don't you?
Guest:Who doesn't?
Guest:And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was really actually taking a nap.
Guest:I go, right, right, right.
Guest:You're Pauly's dad, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I got a show.
Guest:I got a show out here.
Guest:I don't know if you're going to stay in town until next Saturday.
Guest:Okay, what comic?
Guest:would stay in town for an entire week.
Guest:He's like, it's a show with dogs?
Guest:Does this sound familiar?
Guest:No, I don't know anything about it.
Guest:And it's like celebrities and all the big names in town come through.
Guest:Everybody does it.
Guest:Everybody does it.
Guest:And I go, Sandy, I'm going to be in South Carolina next Saturday night.
Guest:Oh, okay, sweetheart, you have a good show.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:I thought, this town is so bizarre.
Guest:Where was this?
Marc:Was it in Vegas?
Guest:Vegas, last Saturday, yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I can't handle that town.
Guest:I don't know what he's really doing, but then I meant to go home and Google, because now I'm curious.
Marc:Did you find out?
Marc:Oh, you didn't do it?
Guest:No, I forgot.
Guest:Like, what the hell is Sammy Shore?
Marc:For those people who don't know, Sammy Shore was Mitzi Shore's husband, Pauly Shore's father, who, in the divorce, I guess, kind of lost the comedy store.
Marc:I don't want to misquote anything, but I think they were married and he's still a comic.
Guest:And he's still doing something in Las Vegas.
Marc:With dogs.
Guest:With dogs.
Marc:He mentioned dogs.
Guest:Yes, dogs were definitely.
Guest:I know I was napping, but I definitely heard dogs.
Guest:And I was like, I don't have a dog.
Marc:I'm curious about this.
Marc:I'm going to pitch this because I've just decided it's my idea.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Look, I got an idea.
Marc:It's sort of like the Honeymooners.
Marc:I'm pitching it to any executives listening, but it's got to be Kathleen Madigan, Louis Black.
Marc:But it's like the Honeymooners, and it's a reality show.
Marc:What do you think?
Guest:He's not going to agree to have a camera follow us around all day.
Guest:Well, maybe.
Guest:It would ruin the relationship.
Guest:No, it wouldn't.
Guest:No, we would ruin their lives.
Guest:That is what they want.
Guest:The cameramen would quit.
Guest:They want that.
Guest:Everyone would have secondhand cancer.
Guest:Now I want to interview the two of you together.
Guest:Well, that's fun.
Guest:I mean, yeah, this has been a 20-year relationship of craziness.
Guest:He really is my best friend.
Guest:I mean, and I do feel like if I have work problems, I can call him because he's been through everything and then some.
Guest:And when I first met him, like, I was on Letterman and all that stuff, and he wasn't.
Guest:And then it was awesome that...
Marc:That it finally happened for him.
Guest:Yeah, and happened big.
Guest:It didn't just happen small.
Marc:Well, because he was one of those guys that, like, literally, you know, hit a wall and kind of pulled out.
Marc:He's always been doing Louis Black.
Marc:Correct.
Marc:And then he said, fuck it, I'm going to take residence at the, what was it, the West... West Bank.
Marc:The West Bank.
Marc:Yeah, the West Bank, yeah.
Marc:And do what I do.
Marc:Write plays, do stand-up.
Marc:And then John Stewart pulled him out of anonymity to a certain degree.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And made him what he is.
Guest:Because he didn't start like a road comic.
Guest:Like he started in the West Bank too and then started in New York.
Guest:But like versus if you took the Midwest versions of me that just ran around and did every club that you could drive to and all that.
Guest:So he every club didn't know him.
Guest:And then it's like, well, how does he get in the loop if he's not in the loop and he's a New York guy?
Guest:It was just all very convoluted.
Marc:He was always just outside of legit stand-up in a way.
Marc:Correct.
Marc:He was always a legitimate stand-up.
Guest:Legitimate stand-up, but not within the circles we're all running in.
Marc:But he was writing plays.
Guest:Yeah, he did other things we didn't really understand.
Guest:He was an artist.
Guest:Yeah, he's a hippie.
Guest:He's a hippie guy.
Marc:But now, do you have any regrets about how you handled your career?
Marc:In the sense that like like is I'm certainly not comparing you, but I've been talking to a lot of comics, one loud mouth, bitter one recently that I don't even want to drag into this conversation and not make it cancerous.
Marc:But because it would ruin it.
Marc:But there are some people I talk to that think they spend too much time on the road.
Guest:No.
Marc:No.
Guest:I don't even think that's possible.
Guest:All the road can do is make you better.
Guest:I mean, I think if you get pigeonholed into, like I call it the alcoholic southeast corner, there's like five southern comics where they just drive around in circles, but they're drunks, right?
Marc:And they tell bar stories.
Marc:So they think they're just getting there for the first time every time?
Guest:They just go to the next town for $1,500 cash and spend it.
Marc:Did you play that southern circuit a lot?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you sort of, do you feel like you're southern?
No.
Guest:No.
Marc:Midwestern?
Guest:I feel Midwest-y.
Guest:I mean, I feel like we're no man's land, boring Midwest-y.
Guest:Missouri's not.
Guest:I mean, really, even in the Civil War, we were half and half and just fought each other and never even left our own state because we're just that retarded.
Guest:Like, we couldn't even commit to what we were as a state.
Guest:Like, the southern part of Missouri is southern, but St.
Guest:Louis is more like Chicago.
Guest:Like, no, but I feel comfortable in the south.
Guest:Like, I didn't feel like, oh, my God, if I was from I don't know where, where this feels like a foreign nation.
Guest:I could see how it could, but it didn't to me.
Marc:But in terms of, like, coming up in the south, so you came up with people like Ron White and Ingvall.
Guest:Brett Butler was headlining.
Marc:God, I haven't talked to her in so long.
Marc:Do you talk to her?
Guest:Nobody has.
Guest:I don't know what happened.
Marc:I'd love to talk to her.
Marc:I haven't thought about her.
Guest:I think it would be awesome, too, because I always ask on the road.
Guest:She's in Georgia, right?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think she has a place out here and there.
Guest:I don't, I really, truly have not.
Marc:I gotta fucking track her down.
Guest:And like, Ron hasn't heard from her.
Guest:I mean, all of our.
Marc:You talk to Ron?
Guest:All the time.
Marc:Would you tell him to fucking, that I want him to do the show, please?
Marc:I'll tell him.
Guest:Yeah, I talk to him all the time.
Marc:Because I can't.
Marc:Because like, I, you know, when I see him, we were in Aspen together, so we had this weird bond.
Marc:We were on this weird show.
Marc:Not in Aspen, in Montreal, a few years back.
Marc:It was their idea, the veteran show.
Marc:Like, it was like, not new faces.
Marc:It was like, hey, they're still around show.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And me and Ron were on it.
Guest:Here's people that haven't gotten a deal.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We still think they're kind of funny.
Guest:We don't get it.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:But we both got deals out of that.
Marc:And neither one of our shows went.
Marc:But obviously he's gone on to, you know, he's Ron White.
Marc:And I fucking love that guy.
Marc:And the last time I saw him was at the bar at the improv.
Marc:And he was going through another divorce.
Marc:Or the last one.
Guest:He had the funniest line.
Marc:But he's so chipper about it.
Marc:He's like, well, I'm going to lose everything every few years.
Marc:Half of what I got every few years.
Marc:That's just the way it's going to go.
Guest:He's another golf buddy of mine.
Guest:And we were golfing, this was like maybe two years ago.
Guest:And he's getting divorced.
Guest:And he's talking to these lawyers on the phone while we're golfing.
Guest:And I said, can you just turn that off for like 18 holes?
Guest:Can we not?
Guest:Because he was getting so angry, right?
Guest:But within the anger, there's always funny.
Guest:And he goes, he's on the phone.
Guest:Phone with Deloria goes, really?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Five million dollars?
Guest:Five million dollars?
Guest:Why don't you tell her my first wife got a dryer?
Guest:Fuck her.
Guest:Tell her a dryer.
Guest:I'm not even sure it worked.
Guest:And he throws the phone on the fairway and he almost drives over the phone.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, this is awful.
Guest:Stop, stop, stop.
Marc:You hang around with all these very charismatic, angry, but beautifully funny guys.
Marc:Do you have a relationship in your life?
Guest:Not right.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:I'm gone too long.
Guest:And then I even thought about it, like, especially this Christmas, because I have a place by my parents' place at the lake, but I have six siblings.
Marc:In St.
Marc:Louis?
Guest:No, it's three hours away by a lake.
Guest:And my sister goes, well, you have to stay at mom and dad's in the basement because you're single.
Guest:And we need your place because we've got the kids.
Guest:And it did make more sense.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then I thought, I'm laying in the basement and I can hear my parents up at six o'clock.
Guest:Well, we got a hardwood floor.
Guest:And I thought, why am I penalized?
Guest:Because I'm busy.
Guest:Because I'm single.
Guest:Because I didn't bring anybody home to you nutbags.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, the only person I could really see living with and being married to is Lou.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Really.
Guest:Like, Ron, I can't.
Marc:It's starting to hurt my heart that we're not, that you're not with Lou.
Guest:Ron, it's too much.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:No, I mean, Ron, I mean, but.
Guest:Maddie, I'd marry you tomorrow, Maddie.
Guest:Really?
Guest:No, no.
Marc:It would ruin everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It would probably ruin everything.
Marc:You think it would ruin it with Lou if you actually, like, you know, decided to?
Guest:No.
Guest:I don't think we're too old to care anymore.
Guest:It would just be fine.
Guest:God, this is a show!
Guest:It would be some open relationship where, oh, who'd you go out with this weekend?
Guest:Would it?
Guest:Would it?
Guest:Well, here's what's weird.
Guest:Come on now.
Guest:I meet people that he's liked on the road, and then I end up texting them more than him.
Guest:Hi, it's so-and-so from Wisconsin.
Guest:Had so much fun at your show.
Guest:Call me when you get here.
Guest:And then I end up going to the town.
Guest:I'm like, I'm going out drinking with so-and-so.
Marc:Well, I had Jackie Cation in here.
Marc:Do you know her?
Guest:I know Jackie, yeah.
Marc:She's great.
Guest:I did her podcast.
Guest:It was very fun at her house.
Marc:Yeah, she's funny.
Marc:But do you find like because I don't want to draw lines.
Marc:You know, everyone's a comedian, professional comedians, comedian, but you are a woman.
Marc:And do you find, you know, I know how guys act.
Marc:You know how guys act.
Marc:Do you find yourself in similar trouble?
Marc:Because she talks about this once a year thing that she used to do where she'd find herself drunk and fucking some guy in the road.
Guest:What?
Guest:I couldn't even say once a year.
Guest:If it was, it had nothing to do with comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like one time I do remember there was a man in the bar in Phoenix and the only reason I even spoke to him was because he said he was in charge of Nielsen boxes.
Guest:And I've waited my whole life to meet somebody who knew about that because I'm like, are you kidding me?
Guest:How do they pick?
Guest:Why does my dorky brother, Kurt, have one?
Guest:Like, really, he's the only person I've ever known is my older brother, Kurt, who's such a dork.
Guest:Like, he only watches sci-fi and crap.
Guest:So I get in this long conversation and end up having a one-night stand with the Nielsen box guy.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Like, I never want to see again as long as I live.
Marc:And how did he rate it?
Guest:Yeah, I don't... Thank God I didn't give my email.
Marc:Was the TV on while it was happening so he could...
Guest:Right.
Guest:Could you make this hotel a box for now so I could click on a friend's show and give it a credit?
Guest:I also think, too, though, as a woman on the road, I would think twice.
Guest:I watch way too much of serial killer stuff and stuff.
Guest:Really?
Guest:That happens?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Guest:To think, like, I just... Strangers.
Marc:Strangers.
Guest:to go to a stranger to their apartment when you don't know anybody that knows them.
Guest:Like a hotel is different.
Guest:I could yell and scream probably.
Guest:Right, right, maybe.
Guest:Probably.
Guest:You could still get murdered.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:The Craigslist lady didn't make it out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, there's people that don't make it out.
Guest:You've really thought this through.
Guest:Because I'm like, see, she didn't make it out.
Guest:And then I realized, you know what?
Guest:The other trick is, have a suitcase littler than your body.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because they take the body out in your suitcase and wheel it right out.
Guest:So now my suitcase is the size of a purse.
Guest:There's no way you can chop me up and fit me in there.
Marc:We are all about carry-on anyway.
Marc:So unless they're going to carry half you on the plane the next day.
Guest:Well, the one carry-on, I think you could probably squish me in.
Guest:Because I've given it.
Guest:I'm like, if I could climb inside that, that's bad.
Guest:That's bad.
Guest:If you could shove my head down.
Guest:If I do enough yoga, I could get in the right positions.
Marc:But also you have, you know, it seems like you have a really kind of like decent, you know, deep friendship with a lot of guys.
Guest:Most of my friends.
Marc:And you get a lot of respect in the community, too.
Marc:I mean, you're like one of the most highly respected comedians working.
Guest:Well, that's nice to hear.
Guest:I think it's because I didn't quit.
Guest:99% of the women quit.
Marc:Women.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's why there's no women.
Guest:Lou and I were trying to bust our brains out for somebody else for his cruise.
Guest:And he goes, like a woman, but at your level.
Guest:And I said, besides Wanda, who did it right.
Guest:Like Wanda did the road.
Guest:Caroline did the road.
Guest:I mean, we came up with like five names.
Guest:Yeah, who are they?
Marc:So there's Wanda, there's Carol.
Guest:I'd say Judy Gold, but Judy jumps off the road sometimes and does shows and theater things.
Marc:But even Wanda, I mean, Wanda started way after you.
Marc:I mean, I remember when Wanda started, and I was halfway in.
Marc:I mean, she's got to be maybe 15.
Guest:I mean- 15 years in?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, maybe.
Guest:But I'm saying, who can do a solid hour-
Marc:Oh, like that.
Marc:So you're saying who can do the job?
Guest:Who can really do an hour?
Marc:What about Maria?
Marc:Jackie?
Marc:I always say Maria.
Marc:I say Jackie.
Marc:Tig is also great right now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But so why is that?
Marc:I mean, and I've asked this of other women, but I've not talked to a woman who's been doing it as long as you and has a career that you have.
Marc:But it is interesting because you hear that a lot from people like, people want me to have women on or they ask, well, how come there's not more women?
Guest:and and then the answer usually becomes comes around like there was a period where Women got sort of characterized as talking about their parents or time and which I always thought was bullshit But yeah, but yeah, but no there were there was a chunk it was almost when I started Where it was Jenny Jones, and then it was just girls night on Monday Diane Ford did a lot of the shopping by oh, I remember her what happened her she
Guest:She's fine.
Guest:She's in Florida.
Guest:She married a nice guy who I actually like.
Guest:She's fine and does cruise ships every now and again.
Guest:I've forgotten about her entirely.
Guest:They're fine.
Guest:There was just a group of women at the time that were very- Carrie Snow was great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, there were also the antithesis of them existed at the same time, but everybody focused on that group.
Guest:The Jenny Johns, where she'd say, Monday night at the Funny Bone is girls' night and there can be no guys working and it's a slumber party for women.
Marc:That was the angle they took.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's like, okay, now you've, it's like if the black comics want to just, it's Def Jam night and it's only black people night and now you've pigeoned yourself into, now everybody, I remember a time when everybody thought every black comic was Def Jam.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And God forbid for the guys that weren't,
Guest:It was just a drag for them.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you're saying that that girls comedy got pigeonholed by women who in a marketing angle created the girls night out comedy.
Guest:I think they did.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that's what it sort of became known as.
Marc:Huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the other problem is there's so many that quit because they get sick of the road.
Guest:They just get tired of the crap.
Guest:You're living in a condo with two guys every week.
Guest:It is kind of gross.
Guest:But, I mean, I had four brothers.
Guest:I don't even care.
Marc:I don't even notice.
Marc:But I think that's a real interesting thing in terms of women in society is that, like, I know that it's a fact that if a woman is on a career trajectory and there's enough fear about her future, she's going to say, well, I can still get a guy with this, with what I have.
Marc:Like, I can still lock on to somebody and have some sense of security.
Guest:Or not even that.
Guest:They'll quit to take a writing job.
Guest:And I can understand.
Marc:Yeah, but that's a good career if you hang in.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:No?
Guest:It's harder, I think.
Marc:I could never write for somebody else.
Marc:I can barely keep my own shit together.
Marc:I mean, I know that about myself.
Marc:But if a young comic says to me, I'm getting into comedy, up to maybe a few years ago, I'd sort of be comic about it.
Marc:But now I'm like, well, if you're going to do it, make sure you know that there's a broader spectrum of things you can do with that talent.
Guest:There are.
Marc:Because how many people can be you?
Marc:I mean, seriously, how many people are working comics at any one time and making a living?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And where each year it gets better and each year it becomes.
Guest:It's not many.
Guest:But I would also argue that half of the reason of that is, is I can tell you so many funny people that have taken the writing route.
Guest:And that, to me, is a dog-eat-dog harder world, less fair.
Guest:Comedy's pretty fair.
Marc:No, that's right.
Marc:But still, if they get into the loop and they ride it out for a while, they get health care coverage, they get a steady paycheck.
Guest:I see the attraction.
Guest:And as a woman, you go, you know what?
Guest:Maybe I could have a relationship.
Guest:Maybe I could have a pet.
Guest:Maybe I could have a normal life.
Guest:A baby, even.
Guest:A kid?
Guest:Right, God forbid.
Guest:I'm so glad that never entered my mind.
Guest:Why do you think it never did?
Guest:I think because there were seven kids in my family.
Guest:It was just insanity.
Guest:And it was just like, then when my mom went off the rails, I had to help raise my younger brother and sister.
Guest:So I got what it's about.
Guest:It's signing permission slips.
Guest:Can I have a ride?
Guest:Will you take my association?
Guest:I don't have a ride.
Guest:I mean, it became- You already did it.
Marc:No way.
Guest:I get the gig.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's interesting.
Marc:I'm glad that you chose a sort of looser kind of fun, you know, alcoholic mode of honoring the family legacy as opposed to the weird control freak codependent.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:None of that.
Guest:A little bit of a control freak.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Only about work and stuff.
Guest:Yeah, because I'm always convinced I did this by myself for 10 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You people should be 20 steps ahead of me.
Guest:Not even with me.
Guest:Agents, managers, you should be ahead of me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No, that's a ridiculous request of an agent.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I finally have one that is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I finally have a manager that it's almost to the point where I'm like, what?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You know, like I'm trying to get it done.
Guest:It's taken me 23 years, but I finally have the team in place where everybody's doing their job and then some.
Guest:and doing a good job at it.
Marc:Well, there's sort of a rebirth of comedy audience now, too, I think, that they're definitely out there again in a big way.
Marc:Do you find that, or are they still your people?
Marc:Are you bringing in new people?
Guest:I'm bringing in new people, but that's also because I keep doing weird new things where I access
Guest:Like, I know this sounds crazy, but sometimes I do funny things on Dr. Phil.
Guest:I'm the funny lady.
Marc:Oh, you've got that gig?
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Yeah, so that... Well, it's very strange.
Guest:The whole thing is very... It's very much like a weird dream if you took Quaaludes or something.
Guest:Like, I'm in an Ann Taylor business suit, but I'm funny, but this is inappropriate.
Guest:Why am I on Dr. Phil?
Guest:Like, none of it even makes sense.
Guest:But that group of people, they are like, well, who's this lady?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Last Comic Standing was the prime time people that never watch.
Marc:I remember when you did that, there was like that was sort of it struck me like then you started to realize that Last Comic Standing could actually be seen as some sort of business opportunity.
Marc:And I don't know how you felt about that experience, but I was a little sad that you did it.
Guest:Well, I was a little sad that I did, too, but the good end of it.
Guest:Well, what's really sad is after our season, they did have the opportunity to take it up even a further notch.
Guest:But, you know, they switch network people, producer people, and then the whole thing goes in backwards.
Marc:But did someone talk you into that or did you think it would be a good opportunity because you were so above that?
Guest:Both.
Guest:No, because I wasn't.
Guest:The year before, I have respect for Rich Voss.
Guest:There were people on season one where I was like, Rich is a real comic.
Guest:No matter what anybody wants to think about his comedy, per se, he's been doing it 20 years.
Guest:No, definitely.
Guest:And I thought, okay.
Guest:And then the group I was with, I love Todd Glass.
Guest:He's been on a million shows.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Hefron had already been on The Tonight Show a million times.
Guest:I was in a group where I thought, these are legitimate headlanders.
Guest:Whether anybody thinks they're funny or not, they're legitimate.
Guest:And maybe the good end of it was I did read... Well, it was double-fold.
Guest:You have to...
Guest:People have to say, I think I'm funnier than Mark.
Guest:And then that's what makes you perform.
Guest:Well, nobody ever challenged me.
Guest:So I never even performed on the show.
Guest:Yet people were like, I liked you because you were the normal lady and you were this whole group of people.
Guest:They're like, I've never even heard of you before.
Guest:I'm like, are you kidding?
Guest:I'd done the Tonight Show like eight times.
Guest:So every time I got nervous, it was for nothing.
Guest:No one was even watching.
Marc:But that's not true.
Marc:People were watching.
Marc:I've had a battle with that myself.
Marc:How did I go unnoticed for so long?
Marc:I mean, this podcast, all of a sudden, I'm like, I never knew who you were.
Marc:You think, how is that possible?
Marc:I did Conan 44 times.
Marc:I've been on Letterman four times.
Marc:I know.
Marc:A half-hour special.
Marc:And nothing.
Marc:Well, I don't know what makes something congeal in someone's mind.
Marc:I mean, it's not that we weren't doing good comedy or that you weren't doing good comedy.
Marc:It's just that I always used to blame myself, and I'm sure as a Catholic, you did as well, is that they're not noticing.
Marc:America doesn't notice me.
Marc:And it's really just you cannot determine what joke or what moment or when you become a whole person to that.
Guest:Well, I don't even think there is a moment anymore.
Guest:I think there used to be when Johnny Carson and there were three channels and two thirds of the country was watching one channel every night.
Guest:I think if you went on and killed the next day, you were a household name.
Guest:Now there's 500 channels.
Guest:There's Sirius Radio.
Guest:There's podcasts.
Guest:You have to go do like like when Lou wrote his last book.
Marc:and i just have this dvd and cd out the amount of press that i have to do i spend more time promoting myself than being myself right well you're right and i think that has something to do with the lack of intimacy of the media landscape now it's all on us it's there's no way to reach everybody sure what are you gonna rely on a club like i was i made that mistake for a long time sort of like well the club will put it in the paper who the fuck reads the paper and now i spend you know i know i know
Guest:It's like really the paper.
Guest:I mean, yeah, so you think my parents are coming Yeah, they do the bridge section and read the obituaries.
Marc:They're not calming I don't know why it took me so long to realize that but now you're doing dr. Phil and you're doing joy.
Guest:So weird stuff.
Guest:Joy Joy Behar reaches a different You've got wisdom.
Marc:You've got experience.
Marc:You can talk about anything in a comedic way I mean that you are you know, they need us and
Marc:I mean, they need that.
Guest:They do, but I don't think enough of them think that.
Guest:Like, I even think like with, like Lou, you did Olbermann a few times and Olbermann, well, more than a few.
Marc:It's hard to shine in that spot.
Guest:It's awkward.
Guest:And Lou would be like, did you tee away?
Guest:What'd you think?
Guest:And I was like, ah.
Guest:I can't watch you as my best friend on that because he doesn't really get it in any kind of weird stuff.
Guest:I know.
Guest:But like those types of shows, if they added a little more humor, even I don't know what goes on on Fox, but even on that or on they could use us more than they do.
Guest:I think Dr. Phil was smart.
Guest:He's like, every once in a while, I just want Friday to be kind of silly.
Guest:I don't want it to be so uptight.
Guest:I've done it with Ron White.
Guest:I've done it by myself a bunch of times.
Guest:He heard me on Sirius Radio.
Guest:That's how he found me.
Guest:I mean, it was just odd.
Guest:The whole thing is very odd.
Marc:So you've seen a career resurgence in the last five years, in a way.
Guest:Yeah, Bonnie Hunt, believe it or not, it's canceled now.
Guest:But I went down there thinking that was just kind of a throwaway.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I didn't even go the night before and run a set.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I just thought, oh, I'll do those jokes about my parents.
Guest:I'll put on some pants and I'll be fine.
Guest:And I like her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I thought, okay, I don't care.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I mean, the amount of Facebook and email from that compared to, say, Ferguson, which I just did.
Guest:Was he there when you did it?
Guest:Well, he was there, yes.
Guest:But leaving, right?
Marc:Isn't that weird?
Guest:It's very odd.
Marc:I looked so weird after the end of that set because he's not there.
Marc:No one comes up to you.
Marc:There was this moment where I literally did this weird thing where I put my hands on my hips and I went...
Guest:I saluted.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I'm kidding.
Marc:It's awkward.
Marc:It's like no one's going to walk me off.
Guest:Nope.
Guest:And the show's actually over right now, too, by the way.
Guest:Not only are you done, but the whole show.
Guest:And the audience doesn't know what to do.
Marc:But the audience is pretty great.
Marc:There's like 12 of them.
Marc:And they're on fire.
Guest:I said to Lou, I go, if you could, because Lou kept saying, because I hadn't done Ferguson.
Guest:I'd done the rest of them, but I hadn't done that.
Guest:And he's like, all right, you'll have a great time.
Guest:If you would have given those people a beer and a cigarette, that would have been downtown Zanies.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:I mean, they're so compact.
Marc:And they're hot.
Guest:The ceilings are so low.
Guest:And they're on fire.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I couldn't believe it.
Marc:They were laughing at things where there should have been laughs, but they'd never really gotten that big a laugh.
Marc:They got weird laughs.
Marc:In my set, I was literally like, I don't believe you guys.
Marc:You were laughing too hard.
Marc:And then when I got a laugh on a weird thing that usually only gets a little laugh, I'm like, okay, I believe you now.
Marc:I believe you.
Guest:Yeah, that was a hot... Because I just did Leno like two Mondays ago.
Guest:What do you think of him?
Guest:Ever since this late night fight occurred, I'm going back to my Midwest Irish Catholic.
Guest:I got to be loyal to who was loyal to me.
Guest:The man has put me on 14 times.
Guest:And every time I see him, he's talked to my dad on the phone.
Guest:Now, what went down with the late night thing...
Guest:i really i mean just in general i mean like here's in general i think he's a workaholic which is something i am not familiar with i love to work but if you also told me hey kathleen you've got millions of dollars you can take the month off and go to maui i take the life off right yeah me too like i don't have that kind of yeah yeah thing going on like but i also i want to spend time with my nieces you know i'd go i would go with lou to go golf in myrtle beach for two weeks whatever leno's just work work work work
Marc:It's a show.
Guest:He's all work.
Guest:I don't get that.
Guest:I don't have that in common with him.
Guest:One time he even goes, he goes, honey, where you been?
Guest:I go, well, I did this festival in Ireland and then I just stayed for a week just to drink and stuff.
Guest:He's like, yeah, every night you're not performing.
Guest:Somebody else is out there performing.
Guest:You can't take all that time off.
Guest:He goes, I have a pool.
Guest:I haven't been in it in three years.
Guest:I go, well, I would love to go in your pool.
Guest:He goes, just tell Mavis.
Guest:And when you come, I'm like, I'm not really going to do that, Jay.
Guest:You're going to come home from work and I'm just going to be floating around with a Bud Light on a raft.
Guest:Sun Black 85.
Guest:How you doing?
Guest:Someone's using the pool.
Guest:Do you guys socialize off the show?
Marc:I mean, are you guys friends?
Guest:Again, all he does is work.
Guest:I don't know how you would... I don't like cars, per se.
Guest:So I think maybe if you were into cars, he'd probably go to a thing with you.
Marc:I think there's something to be said for loyalty.
Marc:It doesn't always come back on the other side, but I felt that way.
Marc:I was very loyal to Conan.
Marc:I only did Conan's show because he put me on four times a year on the old show, and I was loyal to Letterman.
Marc:I didn't really watch Jay Leno that much, and I just didn't try to get on the show at all.
Marc:Or Ferguson.
Guest:And sometimes it becomes tiring.
Guest:There's so few things in my career that I thought- I just did Ferguson for the first time recently.
Guest:That was the first time I did it, too.
Guest:There's so few things in my career that I go, wow, that was pretty cool, that I was proud of myself for figuring out.
Guest:But for a while there, I was doing Letterman and Leno, and there weren't that many comics that could do either or both, because you kind of got pigeonholed.
Marc:But they don't care.
Marc:I mean, I didn't find that they cared.
Guest:No, but I think the bookers were pigeonholing.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:They made their decision.
Guest:Like, Lou was too crazy for Leno.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, oh my God, this guy's yelling and screaming and off the hook and it's too much.
Guest:And then I always thought, well, the Leno people are going to say I'm too, I'm not quirky or strange enough, which I'm not.
Guest:I mean, I'm not alternative.
Guest:I'm not weird, but I'm funny.
Guest:And then what's... I forget.
Guest:It was before Eddie was booking it.
Guest:Maybe Eddie also.
Guest:But I did... And then finally, like, I think I could still do Letterman.
Guest:It's just I'm not in New York and I don't feel like... I don't... I cannot go make you a tape tonight.
Guest:I just can't.
Guest:I don't have the energy.
Guest:I'm off one night.
Guest:You know, I can't do that whole... Like, if you're a younger comic... Eddie asked you for a tape?
Guest:Well, they all, well, the Tenaito, the Leno didn't.
Guest:But yeah, I think Eddie, just because he wants to know what are you going to be doing.
Guest:I don't think he's going to sit there and judge it and decide I'm not funny.
Guest:It's just about what are you going to do.
Marc:It's weird for me right now because with that stuff, the thing is, back in the day, people would say, well, did you sell a lot more tickets because of Letterman or this or that?
Marc:And it's like now, it's not about that.
Marc:It's just part of our job to go do comedy on a network talk show.
Marc:On a show.
Marc:or to do panel, it's a very specific thing.
Marc:And I like doing that, but it doesn't yield anything other than the pride of doing it.
Guest:It doesn't, it doesn't yield.
Guest:Although, Leno, a couple weeks ago, the DVD and the CD spiked.
Marc:Because he pushed it.
Guest:I couldn't believe the amount of... I mean, it was already running high, but it went bam.
Marc:I did the new Conan like a week and a half ago, and he really got behind the podcast, and it blew up.
Marc:It makes a difference.
Marc:It does.
Marc:Sure it does.
Guest:And I don't know how many of those people it's long-term.
Guest:Who knows?
Marc:The new Conan's great.
Marc:You should do it.
Guest:You know, and I haven't even seen it.
Guest:I haven't TVed it.
Guest:I think my friend Laurie Kilmartin's writing on it.
Marc:Yeah, she's great.
Marc:Oh, she's great.
Marc:She's funny.
Guest:She's so funny.
Guest:And I did him, too.
Guest:I liked Conan, too.
Guest:But I was always in L.A.
Guest:Those are the New York guys.
Guest:So they would go down.
Guest:It's so much easier if you're in New York to go down and do a set in front of, I think it was Frank and Conan.
Marc:Yeah, Frank Finley and Paula, yeah.
Guest:To go do a set in front of them rather than, okay, Kathleen, make a tape at the Comedy Magic Club and send us a DVD.
Marc:Well, now what they want you to do is that, is like, you should get to a point where you're established enough to where they're just sort of like, what's the set?
Guest:Would you come on?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Can we just do this off the phone?
Guest:I don't mind.
Marc:I'll tell you.
Marc:I'll type it out.
Marc:I'll actually type it out.
Marc:Well, that's what they want now.
Marc:They want you to type it out, which is sort of weird because I never type out anything.
Guest:It's very odd.
Guest:And then you want to add stuff?
Guest:Then I realized, oh, then I want to subtract.
Guest:I'm like, I am so wordy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Kathleen, half of this is unnecessary because I'm repeating things in the premise that I, it does, although it does make your act tighter, I think, if you-
Marc:if you're forced to do that oh yeah because you realize like i never write this down yeah and then you find a new thing it's like i wonder if i could add that but then you realize that the difference because do you write on stage is that how you do yeah i don't yeah me too and the difference between seeing what you say written down is that when when you start to trim it and make it more joke like and then you try to add the stuff you wrote down no because it's like it's not how you talk that's right and then and then sometimes it's horrifying to read and go this really isn't funny at all well no i mean like in print yeah
Guest:This doesn't even make sense.
Guest:It's like how I'm saying it somehow magically is making these people laugh.
Marc:We're against writing our jokes.
Guest:Yeah, no, I don't write.
Guest:And I've only written for two other, I've only written for Gary Shanley and Lewis.
Guest:Shanley's voice is so specific.
Guest:And I like to be able to go, okay, there's a lot of jokes I would never do in my act, but I could make them work for him.
Marc:How'd you do that?
Marc:So he just bought jokes from you?
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:He saw me at the comedy magic club and he's like, I have to do the Emmys like in three weeks and I want you to help me.
Guest:I thought he was kidding.
Guest:Like he didn't know me from the man in the moon.
Guest:He's like, can you just come down here every night?
Guest:And I didn't know if I was getting paid, but I love him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, you know what?
Guest:I am off for the next two weeks.
Guest:I'll be here every night and we'll work on this.
Guest:And then, I mean, he surprised me with it.
Guest:Nice gift.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just met him and I want him to do it because he's going through like a spiritual sort of awakening right now.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Around around sort of Buddhism and stuff and trying to, you know, work this, you know, this, you know, spiritual path thing.
Marc:And he's.
Marc:He's really kind of a Buddha-like presence in his own weird way.
Marc:He's such an interesting guy to me.
Guest:I always try to get him, like, can't you come do an hour on HBO?
Guest:Because that's the age group they like.
Guest:I mean, unless you're a rock star like Chris Rock or something.
Guest:They like the Robin Williams.
Guest:They have that age group.
Guest:And I'm like, it's such a waste.
Marc:If you don't do it, Robert Klein's going to do another one.
Marc:Help us.
Guest:Like, he'll go down to Comedy Magic Club and do 20 minutes.
Guest:It's brilliant.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it's like, well, ah, why can't, can you stop playing basketball in Malibu?
Marc:So what do you have, do you want to, I don't know when we'll put this up, but we could certainly plug something in a general way.
Marc:DVDs, CDs?
Guest:DVDs, CD, I'm trying to, Amazon, iTunes.
Guest:And then the special, it's been on Showtime, and then it's going to go to CMT on March 7th, and it'll be on CMT instead of Comedy Central.
All right.
Marc:Awesome, Kathleen Madigan.
Marc:That was fun.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:Thanks for letting me smoke in your office.
Marc:Oh, you got me smoking.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:Okay, that's our show, the lovely Kathleen Madigan.
Marc:What a great gal.
Marc:Can I say that?
Marc:Great gal.
Marc:Thanks for listening.
Marc:As always, go to WTFpod.com for all you WTFpod needs.
Marc:Get on the mailing list.
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Marc:And rest in peace, Mike DiStefano.
Marc:You will be missed.