Episode 1559 - Clare O'Kane
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark marin this is my podcast welcome to it how's everybody doing oh my god i i'm okay i just got back up here to vancouver i'm just kind of regrouping up here i'm just kind of resettling in i really needed to be home for a few days i
Marc:And then back up here for a bit and then back down there.
Marc:But it was good to be home.
Marc:I did a lot of stuff.
Marc:I interviewed some people.
Marc:I saw a movie or two.
Marc:What did I end up watching?
Marc:Oh, we went out and saw Maxine.
Marc:Now,
Marc:I haven't seen the other two, not necessarily my kind of movie, but if I'm going to watch a horror movie, I much rather watch one about devil shit.
Marc:I like good devil shit.
Marc:Like I watched that movie long legs.
Marc:That was devil shit too, but not great devil shit because there was a mystical component.
Marc:This one, Maxine, not only does it capture the eighties, uh,
Marc:Hollywood, the Hollywood mid eighties kind of perfectly, but all the devil shit is just, just human.
Marc:I like human devil shit.
Marc:So, you know, because who hasn't met the devil?
Marc:Am I right?
Marc:But it's pretty, uh, you know, it's not, I wouldn't say I'm a horror fan and this one had some fairly significant gore to it.
Marc:And one of the gory scenes that was very near the opening of the film, uh,
Marc:was particularly devastating.
Marc:I think if you're a dude, probably a little more so.
Marc:And that's all I'm going to say.
Marc:And I'm going to say Buster Keaton was involved.
Marc:That's all I'm going to say.
Marc:But I would recommend that movie.
Marc:I wouldn't recommend it if you can't tolerate horror and gore.
Marc:But if you want to look at 80s Hollywood and get a real sense of what that was like, I think it does a good job with that.
Marc:I don't know why I'm coming out of the gate with a movie review.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:It's just what's happening.
Marc:What else did I watch?
Marc:I watched The Firm again.
Marc:I'm on sort of a Sidney Pollack kick.
Marc:And Brendan and I talk about that a bit on the bonus stuff this week.
Marc:We did a full-on Brendan and Mark movie jam.
Marc:We covered a lot.
Marc:I've been watching a lot of movies.
Marc:I guess that's what you do when you want to get your mind off things.
Marc:But now all of a sudden, my mind is kind of excited about things.
Marc:Yeah, a little bit.
Marc:And I'm not ashamed to say so.
Marc:Today on the show...
Marc:I talked to Claire O'Kane.
Marc:Claire O'Kane is a comedian.
Marc:Claire O'Kane opened for me for several dates through the Midwest.
Marc:We had nice time, nice chats.
Marc:I was able to hang and talk to her.
Marc:Pretty ballsy.
Marc:Pushes the envelope a bit.
Marc:She's a character and was once a writer for Saturday Night Live.
Marc:But we had an in-car talk.
Marc:which is not a common thing for us anymore.
Marc:We don't do those.
Marc:I don't do them too often.
Marc:I think the last one I did was also for bonus material after the Jude Law conversation with Brendan in the car.
Marc:But this is a full-on car conversation with Claire O'Kane.
Marc:And it was good.
Marc:Her recent album, if that interests you, which is out now, is called Everything I Know How to Do, which I believe is kind of literally everything she knows how to do.
Marc:So anyways, why am I chipper?
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:I'm just sitting with this whole idea, with this whole reality, this new reality.
Marc:A week or two ago...
Marc:I was talking about sort of at least part of my brain was trying to resign itself or not surrender necessarily, but entertain the possibilities.
Marc:So I'm prepared mentally to sort of adapt to an American authoritarianism that seemed inevitable.
Marc:Now, look, it may still be inevitable.
Marc:But now what's happened with Biden dropping out, and look, I don't talk about politics that often anymore because you know where I stand.
Marc:There's no reason to do it, but there is kind of a reason now.
Marc:You know how I feel about things.
Marc:There is kind of a reason now.
Marc:There is something very exciting happening.
Marc:Now, look, I don't know if Kamala Harris can win the presidency, but I do know when I remember properly that I was on board with her candidacy in 2016.
Marc:I was ready to go.
Marc:I like her.
Marc:And this I just can't get over the fact that this moment that what is happening now is that now that Biden's out.
Marc:And look, I was never like a Biden guy.
Marc:I was a let's try to keep the country out of the hands of fucking insanity and fascists and making the majority of people either frightened or miserable.
Marc:There is a tremendous amount at stake here in terms of what we understand freedom to be, freedom to be who you want to be in the world that we live in, in the country that we live in.
Marc:I was it's not I wasn't about Biden.
Marc:It just you couldn't.
Marc:It was hard to get behind him other than like, well, you know, if that's what we got, you know, and I think he did a fine job.
Marc:But I'm one of these people that like I'd rather not see the president too often.
Marc:I just like to see things operate properly.
Marc:And I'd like to try to find the information that is the most relative to the truth about what the situation is.
Marc:There are issues out there that can be spoken about clearly.
Marc:There is a democratic platform and agenda that can be spoken about clearly.
Marc:The real issues.
Marc:I know you got a lot of lefties, a lot of progressives running around talking about fascism, fascism, this, fascism, that.
Marc:That's all fine.
Marc:And you can have a president who is struggling his way into just saying, like, you know, it's a democracy is at stake.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But why?
Marc:What are the issues?
Marc:You know, could somebody spell it out for me?
Marc:What do we represent here?
Marc:Now, obviously, there's going to be a lot of progressives that are going to immediately snap back at Harris presidency.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:Do what you want.
Marc:Seriously, stand up for what you need to stand up for.
Marc:Again, I'm excited about a person that can speak to the issues, that can explain the issues, that can stand up to Trump in terms of what the bullshit he's putting out there.
Marc:And again, I'm not saying that I'm hopeful.
Marc:I'm just saying that this is exciting.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:I'm excited to see how this unfolds because it's fucking crazy.
Marc:I'll be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater on Friday, September 20th.
Marc:Then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theater on Saturday, September 21st.
Marc:My Oklahoma and Texas dates needed to be rescheduled.
Marc:Oklahoma City at the Tower Theater.
Marc:That was on October 3rd.
Marc:That's been moved to March 6th.
Marc:2025, I hope you can make it.
Marc:Dallas at the Majestic Theater, that's moving from October 4th to March 7th.
Marc:Houston at the White Oak Music Hall, that was October 5th, now March 8th.
Marc:And San Antonio at the Empire Theater, that was October 6th, now March 9th.
Marc:I apologize.
Marc:You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets and all the latest updates to the tour.
Marc:It's just...
Marc:It's just the life I'm living right now, and it's what I got to do.
Marc:But I'm going to be shooting another special at some point next year for HBO.
Marc:So I will be doing the work, I guess, no matter who's president.
Marc:Obviously, my tone will be different depending on that outcome.
Marc:But but it's just the way it is.
Marc:And, you know, I'm going to try to do some comedy up here in the next week or so.
Marc:And, you know, it's like I don't even want to hear it.
Marc:I don't want to hear this sort of like, I don't know.
Marc:Can a woman just shut the fuck up?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Can a woman actually win the president?
Marc:Shut up.
Marc:Shut up.
Marc:This is a perfect time.
Marc:She represents most of this country.
Marc:I mean, you get all brain fucked by the minority and their calculations and their way of taking over state governments and switching voting rules.
Marc:I mean, you get caught up in that because it's some form of brain fucking and bullying and dubious.
Marc:Obviously, that's being diplomatic, but they are the fucking minority.
Marc:Look, if it's if if American politics has digressed into wrestling, I'm excited about this new match.
Marc:We got a pretty good heel and a pretty good face in the ring.
Marc:And, you know,
Marc:Let's see what happens.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Look, it's strange when you travel, when you're getting ready to travel.
Marc:I don't know whether it's a mental thing or whether things actually start to kind of get crazy.
Marc:You know, I, on the day that I traveled, I had, you know, I had an interview to do.
Marc:I'd gone early.
Marc:I got up early to go to the gym.
Marc:I had some work around the house to do.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, like hours before I have to get a car, uh, two things happen.
Marc:One, this carbon dioxide alarm that I have, that one of those things you plug into the wall is going off.
Marc:I don't know what that is.
Marc:I figured it needed a battery.
Marc:I look at it, doesn't need a battery.
Marc:And so I'm like, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:And then like shortly after that, I'm in my house and I've been there for four days and it wasn't registering, but I smelled a hint, a hint of dead rodent.
Marc:I smelled a hint of it.
Marc:And I'm very sensitive to that smell.
Marc:And I'm like, fuck, I've not been down the crawl space in a while.
Marc:I've not been down in my pseudo basement in a while.
Marc:I've had a rat or two in there in the past.
Marc:What's going on down there?
Marc:And I haven't really been down there in a month or two.
Marc:And I got to tell you, man, I went down there.
Marc:And, you know, I don't even like talking about this because it was fucking brutal and fucked up.
Marc:Not brutal.
Marc:I mean, look, it's relative, but there was more ratchet down there than I've ever seen in my life.
Marc:It looked like a rat had lived down there for centuries and picked these two or three places to shit.
Marc:And I was like, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:How many are down here?
Marc:Kid had seen one on the yard a couple of weeks ago, one rat in the yard.
Marc:I'm like, well, that's that that's living in the house.
Marc:So I finally kind of get down there because of the smell and maybe I was in a certain amount of denial and I could not believe it.
Marc:And I smelled the smell and I'm like, what is that just the ratchet?
Marc:How many rats does it take to make this much shit?
Marc:And you know, I got to get a car in a couple hours and I'm rooting around down there and I find a dead rat and
Marc:And then I got to deal with that jarring horror show after I see Maxine for some reason, which was heinous.
Marc:But a real dead rat, I'm actually I don't know if it's terrified.
Marc:It's just fucking gross.
Marc:Rats are kind of gross when they're dead.
Marc:They're OK when they're alive.
Marc:They're not great when they live in your house.
Marc:But look, I'm sensitive to animals pain.
Marc:And this one was dead and it was sad, but it was also fucking disgusting.
Marc:So now I got to go up.
Marc:I got to get gloves.
Marc:I got to get shovel.
Marc:I got it.
Marc:Like, I'm just sort of like, what?
Marc:Even when, and I don't know what killed it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know if it died from natural causes.
Marc:I have no poison down.
Marc:That'll put out poison.
Marc:I put out those fucking horrendous snap traps, but they seem to do the job quickly.
Marc:But this one was just dead and it wasn't dead that long, but it already started to rot.
Marc:So I'm like, I got to get a shovel.
Marc:I got to put gloves on.
Marc:And then it's like, what are you doing, dude?
Marc:So I'm trying to get it with the shovel, which is only grosser because it's rotting.
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:And then I just put a plastic glove on and just picked the fucking thing up by the tail and threw it in a garbage bag.
Marc:And then I just dumped a bunch of baking soda over the rotten slime that had been emitting from it.
Marc:And then I quickly just vacuumed up as much ratchet as I could.
Marc:And I set two of those fucking peanut butter traps down there.
Marc:I don't know what's going to happen.
Marc:but that was my morning.
Marc:And obviously I've got someone staying at the house, but like, you know, I'm not, I can't ask them to like, go deal with the good, go down and check the rat trap.
Marc:So when I get back in a bit, that'll be a nice welcome home.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:So yeah, look, I'm sorry.
Marc:I, maybe I should have, should I put a trigger warning about the rap business?
Marc:Oh God.
Marc:Just too much.
Marc:But here's a bright note.
Marc:Kit's got a brand new doggie.
Marc:I got a doggie.
Marc:The cat's met the doggie.
Marc:We got a doggie now.
Marc:There's a doggy around.
Marc:It's a little miniature bull terrier.
Marc:B, what a fucking great dog.
Marc:Who doesn't like a bull terrier?
Marc:They're the coolest looking fucking dogs in the world.
Marc:So that dog came over to meet the cats.
Marc:Freaked them out, obviously.
Marc:I don't know how that's all going to go.
Marc:But yeah, now there's a dog in my life, I guess you would say.
Marc:you know, doesn't live with me, but I have access to a doggy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now I'd like to, uh, to once again, say that, uh, Clairo Kane has a record out.
Marc:It's called, uh, Clairo Kane, everything I know how to do.
Marc:You can get that on all streaming platforms.
Marc:And this is me in the car with Clairo Kane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's too rainy.
Marc:Yeah, there's a lot of obstacles to success here for this big idea of recording on the road.
Marc:Because my habit is to check levels.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:It's really raining.
Guest:It's too rainy.
Marc:Is it too rainy to record, do you think?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm getting distracted.
Guest:I'm getting nervous.
Marc:Um...
Marc:So, yeah, 65 degrees in the hotel rooms.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I have, I'm kind of a 73 degrees guy.
Marc:That's like my comfort zone.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's pretty solid.
Marc:It's consistent.
Marc:Like, I know that 73 is where I live.
Marc:74 feels too hot.
Marc:72, a little chilly.
Marc:73, right on the fucking money.
Right.
Guest:You have an eco-friendly body temperature.
Marc:Do you have that, though?
Marc:Do you know what you need?
Guest:Yeah, I need 72 to 73.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:But sometimes I like to be colder because it helps you sleep better.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I didn't know that was true.
Marc:It doesn't make you wake up chilled?
Guest:I actually don't know the science behind it.
Marc:That was what this whole podcast was going to be about.
Guest:For my personal experience...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It feels good because then you get cozy.
Guest:I think I'm a sweater, too.
Guest:I sweat in the night.
Marc:And you drool.
Marc:Is that something you share publicly?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm just kind of wet all around in the evening.
Marc:What was that Tom Papa joke about pillows when you take them out of the pillowcase, all those stains, and you're like, is my head leaking motor oil?
Marc:What causes that?
Guest:My dad used to drink caffeine-free Diet Coke all day, every day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He would drool, too.
Guest:It must be genetic.
Marc:What, during the day?
Guest:No, at night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when he slept, and then his pillowcases would look like...
Guest:They were dragged through mud.
Guest:It was really gross.
Marc:I wonder if drooling is genetic.
Marc:I don't drool, but I do know that I'm a mouth breather, and there's nothing I can do about that.
Guest:I find myself with my mouth hanging open sometimes, and I don't know why.
Marc:When I'm acting, I have to be very aware of it.
Marc:If I'm not talking in the scene, not just a big guy sitting there with his fucking mouth open.
Guest:You're making a choice.
Marc:Well, yeah, a choice to, you know, yeah, that's me not being me.
Marc:How is this character different?
Marc:Well, this one doesn't breathe through his mouth, which was more of a challenge than you could imagine.
Guest:This golf guy, that should be his thing is that his mouth is always open.
Marc:Yeah, I'll have them write that in to remind me.
Marc:So, okay, so now we're leaving Cleveland, and I think we've had generally a good experience.
Marc:Sometimes when you get off stage, I don't know how you feel exactly.
Guest:How I feel?
Marc:Yeah, as I walk by you, when we're handing off the baton...
Marc:Well, I. You're kind of hard to read.
Guest:Well, I think that's because I don't know how you're coming at me.
Guest:A lot of like, I'm going to go energy with an expression of like that I can't read.
Marc:It's usually like how, how, how I'm just, you know, I can usually tell in that moment.
Marc:With openers, like, you know, how they felt.
Marc:Because I mean, in my experience of what you're doing, I can tell whether it's going well.
Marc:And you've been doing well.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that doesn't mean you're going to think that.
Guest:No.
Guest:And I almost never do.
Guest:But I think I would do well enough with your crowd.
Guest:But I'm really conscious of how dirty I am.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:Like how, how like, oh, you mean like crass and right.
Marc:But it's not forward.
Marc:But it's but it's not you're not thinking like maybe I should not do that.
Marc:You're like, oh, this they didn't embrace my filth.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Enough for me to feel comfortable doing it.
Guest:And I'm pretty accepting of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But last night when I came off stage and then you went on stage and you were like, oh, it's going to be an awkward ride.
Guest:That was a joke.
Guest:I know.
Guest:But I was like, well, what is he talking about?
Guest:Because I thought I did OK.
Guest:I think there were parts that were quiet for a long time, but they were supposed to be quiet.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:My joke was really about how, like, I just was acknowledging, like, that was a lot, and it is a lot.
Marc:Oh, yeah, it is a lot.
Marc:In 20 minutes.
Marc:And I say, you know, we spend a lot of time in the car, and I just say, it's not always like that.
Marc:That was the joke.
Marc:I see.
Marc:I wasn't taking a shot at you.
Guest:I know, but there's still this, like, pressure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I still don't know you very well, and it's just a... You don't?
Guest:Well, I think I do.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because I've been listening to you for 15 years or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, but I mean, we've been in the car for hours.
Marc:I mean, what are you missing?
Marc:What parts are you missing?
Guest:No, I think I've got the gist.
Guest:But just in relation to what you think of what I'm doing, I can't really tell.
Marc:Honestly, what do I think?
Marc:Yeah, I mean, you don't have to tell me, but... No, no, I know what you're doing because, like, there have been periods in my life where I've sort of done it.
Marc:Like, and Smart Dirty is great.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:And the only... And I love it, and I'm sort of trying to, in my own way, return to it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because at some point, I decided, like, aren't you a little old to be doing that?
Marc:But no, it's timeless.
Marc:Isn't it?
Marc:Smart filth?
Guest:I think it's timeless.
Guest:And I think people think it's juvenile.
Yeah.
Marc:Do they, though, the way you do it?
Marc:I don't think so.
Guest:Well, I think initially, I mean, I've had, like, you know, family members be like, why do you have to be dirty?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Like, you could be talking about other things that are just as funny.
Guest:And I go, well, that's not how I think.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm constantly thinking about the grossest shit ever.
Marc:But you think it's gross?
Guest:Well, no, I don't think it's gross, but, you know, if somebody else thinks it's gross.
Marc:But I think like, you know, I've been seeing a lot of work from, you know, female comedians.
Marc:That's very pussy forward.
Guest:Comedians.
Guest:Comedians.
Marc:I should usually just say comics.
Marc:I like that.
Guest:Don't you think it's funny when people are like, women just talk about their pussies in their periods.
Marc:I never heard the pussies.
Marc:It used to be women just talking periods.
Marc:Now it's pussies.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But that was not always a thing.
Marc:And I like it.
Guest:I like it, too.
Guest:And I think it's important to talk about.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because we're kind of, you know, we've been taught to feel shame about our pussies, what they do, what they look like, what they smell like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If we use them enough, if we don't use them, what we use them for.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I think that I have a theory on it, but I don't know if it's really true because the amount like there was a period in time there where because of Sarah Silverman, there was sort of a cute way to talk about crass femininity.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And that was sort of like that infected a lot of comics for a while.
Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But now I think what's happened is the whole domain of crass sexuality is more female than male in the stand-up world because I think men have gotten a little more nervous about talking about it for some reason or another.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Marc:You think so?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But so I think it's your time.
Marc:I think it's your time to push the envelope.
Guest:Better be.
Marc:Well, you're doing pretty good.
Marc:There's a lot of there's a lot of Bush involved.
Guest:Well, there's a lot of Bush in life.
Guest:But I think.
Marc:But I love it because like I saw Steph Talov, you know, she opens her show airing out her pussy.
Marc:She's literally got aired out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's good.
Wow.
Guest:I think it's good.
Guest:I think we're headed in the right direction.
Marc:Oh, totally.
Guest:As long as women are being taken seriously as adults and we don't have to become infantile to not freak people out, you know, then, you know, that's the way to be.
Marc:So I watched that movie that you were in.
Guest:I'm in Dad and Stepdad.
Marc:Where's that going to show up?
Marc:What's going to happen with that movie?
Guest:We've already done a run.
Guest:It played in a bunch of Alamo draft houses.
Marc:How'd it go over?
Guest:Around the country.
Guest:Really good.
Guest:People like it.
Marc:It's a weird movie.
Guest:It's weird.
Marc:But it's not weird in the way we're like, what's going on here?
Marc:It's weird in the kind of stilted dynamics between everybody and the fact that a guy who's probably in his 30s.
Guest:Yeah, he's 30.
Marc:Is playing a 13-year-old.
Guest:But he's pretty good at it, I think.
Marc:He's good at it.
Marc:And also, I don't know what that decision was about by the director.
Guest:Well, it was based on some shorts they had made where he plays the little boy.
Guest:He plays the 13-year-old boy.
Guest:And they just decided to keep it that way.
Guest:And you just suspend your disbelief.
Guest:Believe the world.
Marc:Yeah, but also like there's something kind of like, you know, almost Todd Sullen's like about casting against age.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, you know that he's just, you know, it's not a practical decision.
Marc:They could have got a kid.
Guest:They could have got a kid, but honestly, there was so little money in it that it's like... Yeah, and then you got to deal with a kid.
Marc:Then you got to deal with a kid.
Marc:His mom and making sure he eats and gets the breaks he has to have contractually so you're not doing child abuse.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And none of us know how to deal with any of that.
Marc:Was that improvised, that movie?
Guest:It was all improvised.
Marc:Oh, it is?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, well, that informs something.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Because those two guys were good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it didn't matter after a certain point that neither one of them were actually behaving like fathers.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it becomes sort of this kind of heightened experiment in male brittleness.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:And I think it's funny that the kid is played by an adult and he's kind of the most centered one.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then you come in.
Marc:You're pretty centered.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You bring the maternal energy in kind of a punk rock way.
Guest:My, my backstory for myself was that I'm kind of one of those, um, women who, uh, kooky women who works at Trader Joe's and then sometimes helps her friends sell candles at the farmer's market, which is extra time.
Marc:And, you know, tattoos.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The haircut.
Guest:Oh, I just had that.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's a, that's a, it's a fairly, um, classic drastic haircut.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The, uh, the just post shaved head.
Guest:yeah bring something to the mother character it does you don't see a lot of mothers with the with the shaved head you don't and it's rooted in my own what mental illness probably is it i just don't like having hair i think it's it's just one more thing i can sort of obsess over do you um you're comfortable with the shaved head
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm more comfortable than with hair.
Marc:The one time I shaved my head, my sense of self could not handle it.
Guest:Isn't it crazy?
Guest:You kind of have to like, do you feel different as a person?
Marc:I felt like I could handle it now, but it was a time when I was in New York.
Marc:I was a little like kind of floaty and nebulous in terms of what I was supposed to be or who I am.
Marc:And I remember I just went to one of those buzz cut places and
Marc:And I was like, let's do it.
Marc:And he shaved it fucking down.
Marc:You know, like down, like skinhead shave.
Marc:And then I bought a skateboard.
Marc:And I didn't know how to skateboard.
Marc:And I was in my 30s.
Marc:And I'd go down to St.
Marc:Mark, or down to Tompkins Square Park and watch these kids skateboard.
Marc:And I'd just sit on my skateboard with my shaved head.
Marc:And then it was a complete spiral.
Marc:And I went on stage right after I got the haircut.
Marc:And I came unhinged.
Marc:Like I was like, I couldn't get past the fact that they were looking at my shaved head.
Marc:I didn't know why I did it.
Marc:And I literally had a kind of identity breakdown.
Guest:What was going on?
Marc:With me?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What prompted that?
Marc:I don't really know.
Marc:I think it was one of those things where it's like, I can be one of these guys, and I couldn't.
Guest:No.
Guest:I would have crossed the street.
Marc:It wasn't scary.
Marc:It was just kind of weird and too vulnerable, and I projected a lot.
Marc:Most of the time, people don't think anything.
Marc:They're not sitting there going like, why'd this guy shave his head?
Marc:No.
Marc:They're just like, okay, this guy's going to do a thing now.
Marc:And I'm like, you can see through the decision I made.
Marc:I don't know who I am.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Initially, whenever I shave my head, I get that feeling.
Guest:It's like I instantly feel people looking at me in a different way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I'm like.
Guest:well, what does that mean about me and who I am in the world now?
Guest:And do I have to start, do I have to get new shoes?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is this a whole, yeah.
Marc:Do I have to make a whole lifestyle adjustment?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So when we travel together, we generally, we see art, we talk about art, we talk about music in a fairly, you know, like deep way in terms of our knowledge of
Marc:you know, things art related.
Marc:And that's not a common thing in comedy, really.
Guest:You know what I think?
Marc:What?
Guest:I was just thinking this.
Guest:I think we take in art in the same way.
Marc:Well, it has to have something to do with how we came into it.
Marc:Because there's not a lot of people you can talk about that.
Marc:And I imagine even in your peer group of comics that you're not, you know, engaging that part of your brain.
Guest:No.
No.
Marc:Because it's in you.
Marc:And, you know, I don't know, like, I don't know, like, you grew up where?
Marc:I'm from San Jose, California.
Marc:So San Jose is like, it's not defined by anything good.
Guest:It's not defined by anything particular.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:What is San Jose?
Guest:It's Silicon Valley.
Guest:It's...
Marc:Isn't it Silicon Valley adjacent, though?
Guest:No, it's Silicon Valley proper.
Guest:It's where eBay started.
Guest:It's Apple adjacent.
Guest:Apple's in Cupertino, which is 10 minutes outside.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:Maybe my memories of San Jose from doing comedy in the Bay Area, it was just sort of like malls and nondescript people in my mind.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:But I don't remember it as being wealthy or it was pre-Silicon Valley.
Guest:Well, it's pre-Silicon Valley.
Guest:It's totally different now.
Guest:It's one of the most expensive places to live, I think, in the country.
Marc:So you were growing up in that?
Guest:I was growing up in the beginning of that.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I was born in 1990.
Marc:And you're how many siblings?
Marc:I'm an only child.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Can you tell?
Marc:I don't.
Marc:Yeah, maybe.
Marc:No.
Marc:I make a lot of false assumptions about only children.
Guest:Everybody does.
Marc:Yeah, I always think, like, you know, first of all, that the one assumption that I'm always told is incorrect.
Guest:We're getting a ticket from the toll.
Marc:We're getting a ticket from the toll, yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Okay, slowing down, getting your ticket.
Guest:There's the progressive lady.
Guest:Flo.
Guest:Advertised above the ticket.
Marc:Flo.
Marc:I've got to interview Flo.
Guest:Get Flo on the show.
Marc:Got to get Flo on the show.
Marc:She'll hear it.
Marc:But I always assume only children.
Marc:It's a lot of pressure not to fuck up because your parents are kind of have a lot invested.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:With me, no.
Guest:I think my mom had me a little later.
Guest:And I guess later back then was like 38.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was a really planned baby.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:There was no plan for another one?
Guest:No, I don't think so.
Guest:My dad was pretty deep in his career.
Marc:What was that?
Guest:My dad was a film commissioner for San Jose.
Marc:Do you know what that is?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:They're the ones that kind of approve permits.
Guest:They help location scouts.
Guest:They go to conventions and film festivals and be like, come to San Jose.
Guest:We have a Ferris wheel you can shoot on.
Guest:And that's what my dad did, and that's why, like, Flubber was filmed in San Jose.
Marc:Was that the last big movie filmed in San Jose?
Guest:That's the last one I can think of.
Marc:Wasn't there a son of Flubber, too?
Marc:Was Flubber, like, that was Kurt Russell, right?
Guest:Like, son of Sam?
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, Flubber, there was the original Flubber, which was one of those, like, old Disney movies.
Guest:Yeah, I thought it was Kurt Russell.
Guest:No, then there was a new one with Robin Williams.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:And he plays the scientist of the Flub.
Marc:I miss that one.
Guest:Yeah, I think you missed that one.
Marc:Are you telling me Kurt Russell wasn't in Flubber?
Guest:Was it... It was probably in the original one.
Marc:Right, that's what I'm thinking.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and I kind of don't remember what it was.
Guest:It doesn't matter because it wasn't filmed in San Jose.
Marc:But what other movies filmed in San Jose?
Marc:Did your dad have celebrity encounters?
Guest:Yeah, this really bad movie called Mad City was filmed in San Jose.
Guest:It's got Dustin Hoffman and John Travolta.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:And John Travolta...
Marc:What was that about?
Guest:He takes a bunch of kids hostage in like a natural history museum or something like that.
Marc:And everything comes alive?
Marc:And everything kind of comes alive.
Marc:So it's like a night at the museum?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:He just kind of keeps these kids there for really unknown reasons.
Guest:Not a great movie.
Guest:No, but my aunt and uncle got to be extras in it as cops.
Guest:But my dad, there wasn't a film commission before.
Guest:And my dad, I think, kind of went to the city and... And said, we're missing a cash cow here.
Guest:We're missing a cash cow because he was a big movie guy.
Marc:Really?
Guest:He just wanted to be a part of the movie industry.
Guest:And before that, he was...
Guest:Co-owner of a chain of independent movie theaters in San Jose called the Camera Cinemas.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So you grew up with film.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was he a film guy or a movie guy?
Guest:Film.
Marc:Oh, he liked it.
Marc:So he was like into it.
Marc:He was a nerd, a film nerd to a degree.
Guest:Definitely.
Marc:So did he enjoy, did you get a sense that he liked having a child or
Guest:Yeah, he really liked having a child.
Marc:He did?
Guest:Yeah, he did.
Marc:So you guys were buddies?
Guest:Yeah, we were buddies.
Guest:But when I was in fourth grade, he had a stroke and that kind of took him out of commission, kind of.
Marc:Forever?
Guest:Not forever, but my mom was a kindergarten teacher and so she was busy all the time and...
Guest:I didn't realize this until recently, but I guess, you know, after he came back from the hospital, she's like, okay, when you come back from school, you have to come back from school immediately and make sure your dad's okay.
Guest:And I'm like nine or 10 years old.
Guest:And then that kind of, um, that's kind of why I'm in codependent relationships, I think.
Marc:So that was your responsibility.
Guest:My dad was my responsibility.
Guest:And so I really tried to make sure that he didn't.
Guest:I was constantly like making sure he didn't die and that it was my responsibility.
Marc:There were situations that were that dire.
Guest:No, but in my head, you know, when you're little.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you felt like his life was in the balance.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because, you know, your mom says take care of your dad.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:How debilitated was he?
Guest:He wasn't debilitated.
Guest:He wasn't really debilitated.
Guest:He just had his he had memory loss.
Guest:And I think that, you know, that led to other health problems.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:uh maybe like kind of a personality change she got kind of more emotional and oh yeah yeah and this is from 10 yeah and you're the only kid yeah oh my god so i kind of took a lot a lot of that on and that's probably around the same time i became a depressed person
Marc:Oh, so you don't think it was like a biological depression?
Marc:You just felt like you were exhausted from codependency?
Guest:No, I think it is definitely biological.
Marc:You do?
Guest:Yeah, and that just kind of manifested in a lot of different ways like OCD and all this other shit.
Marc:But don't you think like on some level, not to get psychobabbly, but like when you're put in that position with a parent, like I tell a story a lot of times about how...
Marc:You know, I could always make my dad laugh and he was a depressive.
Marc:And there was this moment where when he was like kind of bedridden with depression and my mother said, once you go upstairs and make your father laugh, you're the only one who can.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And but I think if if you really think about codependency, it does deny you your sense of self.
Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it was just an example of like how I felt like I had to go through the world was like, if I ever got emotional, he would get really emotional and I couldn't really kind of describe what was going on with me and that really upset him.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So when I was emotional, I made the connection like, OK, so I can't cry because that's going to make him upset.
Guest:And so I'm just kind of going to do my own thing over here.
Marc:So you were he would absorb and erase your emotions.
Guest:Kind of.
Marc:And you just become an extension.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I understand that.
Marc:You know, it's weird.
Marc:I think you and I have a lot in common.
Marc:And I think that's why, you know, there is a weird understanding that is slightly tense.
Right.
Marc:Tense?
Marc:Not tense, but like, I think they're like, because I knew this kind of right away.
Marc:I think that it's not a bad thing, but I think sometimes you meet people.
Marc:And especially if you're people like us that have this, you know, this codependency instinct.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:When you meet somebody that's kind of missing the same thing you are, there's kind of like a mirror thing where you're like, whoa, what?
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A hundred percent.
Marc:And so like the emotional connection because of who you are with that person is sort of like, it's not volatile, but it's sort of like, it's a little awkward.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but luckily I'm not like... What?
Marc:Debilitated?
Guest:Debilitated or like I like myself enough that when I see the mirror version of myself in a 60-year-old guy, I'm like, I don't hate him.
Guest:I understand him.
Guest:So, but do you have friends?
Guest:Yeah, I've always had friends.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Guest:But I also spent a lot of time alone, like talking to myself or...
Marc:That's the only child thing.
Marc:It's necessary, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And what were you doing?
Guest:You know, pretending I was on a talk show.
Marc:At what age?
Marc:10, 15?
Guest:Being really little.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So you'd watch TV and you'd be interviewed?
Marc:Like a little Rupert Pupkin?
Guest:Yeah, I made a cardboard cutout of Conan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I mean, I was obsessed with comedy since I was little.
Guest:Comedy was really important in my family.
Marc:It was?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was like a big through line.
Guest:At least on my dad's side, on the white side, my uncle was a stand-up briefly.
Marc:Who was that?
Guest:His name's Sean O'Kane.
Guest:He was a stand-up in the Bay Area.
Marc:Probably my generation.
Marc:Oh, earlier.
Marc:So he was there for the original explosion.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But he couldn't cut it?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:He decided to have a family and have a life and be happy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so it was part of your family.
Marc:Did you find, though, for me, comedy grounded me, made sense of a lot of things like I could watch stand up and be like, that guy's got a handle on it.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Marc:It completely made me thrilled.
Marc:Because when you have boundary issues, everything's overwhelming.
Marc:And, you know, you watch a comic, you're like, that guy's got it under control.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:When you see someone speaking eloquently in like, I don't know, it's moving and it's immediately connective.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when you're feeling kind of lost and you're just like, oh, I can relate to everything this person is saying.
Marc:And I'm getting a laugh.
Guest:And I'm getting a laugh.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:And it makes me feel good.
Marc:Who are the people that you first realized you were enjoying?
Guest:Okay, he's popping a Zin.
Guest:Three milligrams.
Guest:Cinnamon flavor, rare.
Guest:Hard to find.
Guest:Hard to find.
Marc:Thank you for finding those.
Guest:Found it in literally the worst convenience store in Cleveland.
Marc:The only convenience store in the Cleveland we were in.
Guest:A lot of signs saying, please don't bother other people.
Marc:In there?
Guest:Yeah, it smelled like smoke in there.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:Who were the first comics?
Guest:Who were the first comics?
Guest:when I was little yeah I was obsessed with SNL and I you know taped it like what 12 13 like 11 12 13 and that was like Will Ferrell and Chris Kattan and Molly Shannon yeah and Tim Meadows and all those people because you wouldn't be able to stay up late you'd set the timer yeah
Guest:No, my, well, sometimes I would stay up late with my dad.
Marc:Oh, he was that into it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who were his guys?
Marc:Who were his comics?
Guest:Yeah, David Letterman.
Marc:Oh, he liked, okay.
Marc:How old was he?
Marc:My age?
Guest:No, he's probably, he would have been 70 something now.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Older.
Marc:Real boomer.
Guest:He was older.
Guest:He was born in 1952 or something like that.
Marc:So was he an old hippie?
Guest:No, you know, he was hippie adjacent.
Guest:He was kind of like, I would say I would compare him to like a John Belushi kind of vibe where he's not quite a hippie.
Marc:Enjoyed the time but was not ideologically involved.
Guest:No, but, you know, he was adjacent and he was a part of the culture and he was on the liberal side of things.
Marc:So your mom's not white?
Guest:No, she's Filipino.
Marc:Filipinos, man.
Guest:Put that on a shirt.
Marc:Well, I'm kind of fascinated with them because it's one of the cultures I don't know a lot about.
Marc:And like any other culture I don't know about, I'm like, when I eat the food, I love it.
Marc:It's so good.
Marc:A lot of pork and stuff.
Marc:Food's really good.
Marc:Fish, too.
Marc:But culturally, how were you informed about Filipinos?
Marc:So you have a lot of Filipino relatives?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, my mom's whole side is Filipino, but she was born there, but she moved here when she was maybe a baby.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So she was pretty Americanized by the time I came around.
Marc:Did you go to the Philippines?
Guest:No, I want to go.
Guest:So outside of American Filipinoism, you know, it doesn't, you know, it, I feel like I have no, my ethnic identity is pretty, I've been treated as a white person.
Guest:So I guess I've lived more white than, yeah, but you must get like, you know, like, what are you?
Guest:My husband's uncle at a family function once, when I said I was Filipino, he looked at me and he was like, I knew you were some kind of exotic.
Guest:Like, that's the kind of thing I get.
Guest:People have guessed I'm a lot of different things, and no one ever really guesses Filipino, even Filipino people.
Marc:Well, I mean, is it still called Amerasianism?
Guest:No, Pacific Islander.
Marc:But I mean like when you're half white and half Asian?
Guest:You're just mixed.
Marc:Just mixed.
Marc:There's no... I guess that's true.
Marc:You're not hearing mulatto a lot anymore.
Guest:No, you're not.
Guest:You can start it again.
Marc:No, I don't think so.
Marc:I'm sad I said it.
Marc:So when do you decide that the creative life...
Marc:Is the life you want to live?
Marc:High school?
Guest:No, kind of almost immediately.
Marc:Oh, when you were 10?
Guest:Yeah, when I was little.
Marc:Were you entertaining your father?
Guest:I kind of was.
Guest:I think, you know, he used to kind of parade me around to be like, Claire, to do, quote, The Godfather.
Guest:Because I had seen The Godfather at a really young age, and I would do that.
Guest:What would you do, Brando?
Brando?
Guest:I think I would just be like, take the cut to cannoli or whatever, whatever the fuck.
Marc:Your first stage time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, quoting movies all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I didn't like doing that.
Guest:I didn't like performing in that way.
Guest:But then I like performing on stage in like a nice controlled capacity.
Marc:When did you first do that?
Guest:When I was really little, I did the children's theater.
Marc:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's fun.
Marc:I've talked to a lot of people.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, in high school, are you doing plays?
Guest:I'm doing plays in high school.
Guest:I went to an all-girls high school.
Marc:Catholic?
Mm-hmm.
Marc:How did that fuck you up?
Guest:I think it was good for me.
Marc:You do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But play-wise, there aren't a lot of plays with all women that aren't sort of trauma-based.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And extremely adult.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like the vagina monologues.
Marc:Did you guys do that in high school?
Guest:No.
Guest:We did one, though.
Marc:I forget.
Marc:Catholic high school.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The vagina monologues.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My vagina's a waterfall.
Marc:But did you know that play?
Marc:Did that have an impact on you?
Guest:No, I never really read plays.
Guest:I just acted in them.
Guest:But we did this play.
Guest:My first play in high school was this play called As It Is In Heaven.
Guest:And I played a shaker.
Guest:All us girls played shakers and we had to wear these bonnets and stuff.
Guest:And I played Fanny the shaker.
Guest:whose brother sexually assaulted her oh wow but she she would like shake she would be like overcome by angels kind of thing and shake and everyone thought she was Catholic high school this was like 15 huh we had a pretty radical um drama teacher they're important when they sneak through
Guest:Yeah, he was very important to me.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:What'd you learn?
Marc:That you could do that?
Guest:Well, it was just validating.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:One time I was kind of too depressed to audition for the fall play.
Marc:You had depression in high school?
Marc:Bad?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you get medicine?
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:So, like, how did that, like, did it just kill your will?
Marc:Like, did you not want to live anymore?
Marc:Or was everything just dull?
Guest:Everything was just really dull and melancholic and hard.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and the good things come from the art, but... They helped you?
Yeah.
Guest:They helped me.
Guest:But, you know, it's still being an only child and having to like having these.
Guest:My parents were super supportive of everything I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I just still felt very lonely and alone and in my own depression.
Marc:Do you ever look at like those kind of things like just farms off a highway and think like, I could live there.
Guest:Every time.
Yeah.
Guest:They look so good on the outside.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just like, I just, I go from like, I could live there to what's going on in that place.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I like, I could fix it up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It'd be, that'd be like a life project.
Guest:I like that a lot.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:That's not, I'm not going to do it.
Marc:So what happens?
Marc:Do you ever get diagnosed?
Marc:When do you go to the shrink?
Guest:Um, the first time I went to a therapist, unfortunately she was like a Christian kind of centric therapist for kind of Jesus undertones of Jesus.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Guest:And, uh, but I only started going to that after her.
Marc:That was her prescription.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jesus girl.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um, I, the first time I went to therapy, I was, it was after I had dated a guy who I lost, the guy I lost my virginity to when I was 16.
Marc:How'd that go?
Guest:You know, it was, it was nice when it was happening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then it got bad.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And then, uh, he, he tried to kind of kill himself.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:I don't know why I say kinda.
Marc:You're being diplomatic.
Marc:I'm being diplomatic.
Marc:Respectful.
Guest:He, he was drinking a lot and he was maybe a year older than me.
Guest:And I, you know, I took that as my, because I broke up with him or, you know, not because of, but.
Marc:After you broke up with him, he tried to kill himself.
Guest:He tried to deal with all that himself.
Guest:And then I blamed myself and.
Marc:For him trying to kill himself?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thank God he didn't do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's a fucking burden.
Marc:You're 16?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're already kind of wired to blame yourself?
Guest:Yeah, like his happiness was on me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I think he was kind of bipolar and that whole thing.
Marc:That's a lot of work to do.
Marc:It's good that you are as self-aware as you are.
Guest:It took a long time.
Guest:I have a lot of time to myself to think about it and try to fix myself.
Guest:Although over the years, it's been about all about like, well, what's wrong with me?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:How do I fix myself?
Marc:How did you?
Guest:Well, then I realized it's it's it's everything's out of my control for the most part.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's not your responsibility.
Marc:You can detach from it like other people are other people.
Marc:They are themselves.
Guest:It's their responsibility.
Guest:Their happiness is their responsibility.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:So when did you have that realization?
Marc:Like a couple years ago?
Guest:Like three years ago.
Guest:But, you know.
Marc:It takes what it takes, as they say.
Guest:Especially with my dad's stuff, it was like...
Guest:It would be really, I would really make it my responsibility to make sure that he was okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was diabetic.
Guest:And now I have food issues kind of because of all that stuff where it's like, you know, he would eat like shit or, and then sometimes I would kind of raid the kitchen for all the bad food and I would eat it.
Guest:So he didn't eat it.
Marc:You were doing exactly what he did.
Marc:You were like diminishing yourself in service of him.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So how do you get out?
Marc:How old was he when he passed?
Guest:I honestly don't know.
Guest:He must have been, let's see, he died in 2017.
Marc:Oh, recently.
Guest:So 1952.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know how old that is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Not old enough.
Guest:No.
Marc:Young.
Guest:And my mom died in 2010.
Marc:How'd she die?
Guest:She had lung cancer.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a horrible one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you really went through it.
Marc:The only child, both parents are dead, so you're it.
Guest:You know, I tried to do a joke.
Guest:The first show I did with you, I tried to do a joke where I was like...
Marc:I'm glad you're working stuff out.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:But there was a moment where I was like, oh, maybe grief is kind of Mark's thing and I can't be talking about it too because people will think I'm trying.
Marc:No, it's just a theme of the evening.
Guest:I know.
Guest:But then in the joke...
Guest:like I did it on stage and I said something to the effect was like, well, he's got one dead girlfriend and I've got two dead parents.
Guest:So I think I win.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And people did not like that.
Guest:Didn't land.
Guest:It did not land.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I understand why, but,
Marc:Needs a little something.
Guest:I think it maybe needed a lot more context.
Marc:Maybe a stronger tag.
Guest:I needed it to not be the first thing I said when I got on stage.
Marc:Hi, folks.
Marc:Let me try to alienate you immediately.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I love that tactic.
Marc:I used to do it a lot.
Marc:So, yeah, I don't know.
Guest:Everything's heavy.
Marc:Yeah, it is heavy.
Marc:Carrying that kind of absence, whether you want it to or not, it doesn't define you, but it's certainly a current of who you are.
Guest:Yeah, and then it becomes a part of your narrative.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:When did you start?
Marc:What did you do after high school?
Marc:How did you start to pursue your creative dreams?
Guest:Well, I didn't think I was good enough at acting or performing to go to school for that.
Guest:I just wasn't confident enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I liked taking pictures.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We've talked about this.
Marc:We're on the mic, so.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We're talking about it again.
Guest:You haven't heard anything about this.
Marc:We went to an art thing at the mattress factory, and we both walked into an installation, and part of it was like an old-style darkroom, and we were both like, oh, yeah.
Marc:The smell.
Marc:The smell.
Guest:The fixer.
Guest:But I was really into photography in high school, and I think I was pretty good at it, and I got into art school.
Guest:The only schools I really applied to were art schools because my grades were okay, but they weren't like NYU good.
Marc:Sure, me too, yeah.
Guest:But I was smart.
Guest:I think I'm smart.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I don't... You know, whenever teachers had meetings with my parents, they'd be like, if Claire tried like 10% harder... Yeah.
Guest:It would be...
Marc:Yeah, that's the worst fucking criticism.
Marc:I got that all my life.
Marc:He's got motivational problems.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, no shit.
Marc:Yeah, I'm exhausted and paralyzed with anxiety and awkward and depressed in class.
Marc:Sorry, I can't focus.
Guest:Yeah, just leave me alone.
Marc:I remember like the one thing that I kind of had an English teacher, Dr. Hayes.
Marc:And we wrote poetry in his class.
Marc:And I remember, like, I really was into it.
Marc:And I wrote some really kind of, you know, stuff that was a little too, just emotionally raw for, like, a 15-year-old.
Marc:And we read them out loud.
Marc:And I remember reading one poetry, one poem I wrote about, like, my virginity.
Marc:And it was just one of those moments where the entire, like, no one looked at me the same.
Guest:Whoa.
Marc:Ever again.
Guest:How old were you?
Marc:Like 14 or 15.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's brave.
Marc:Yeah, but the feeling, I can feel that feeling.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Of awkwardness.
Marc:You amplify it yourself.
Marc:You're already awkward, and then it's sort of like, let me put this out into the world.
Guest:But that's so vulnerable.
Guest:And it's like, well, maybe this will turn things around in my favor.
Guest:People will understand me now.
Guest:And then they do and they don't like it.
Guest:They're uncomfortable.
Guest:They're uncomfortable.
Guest:And you're like, oh, no.
Marc:I blew it.
Guest:I can never tell anybody how I feel ever again.
Marc:What were you shooting?
Marc:Did you have photography heroes?
Yeah.
Guest:I really like Robert Frank and people like that.
Guest:There's this book called Teenage by Joseph Schabo, S-C-A-B-O.
Marc:You told me about that.
Marc:I didn't check it out.
Marc:I know Larry Clark stuff.
Guest:Larry Clark.
Guest:He taught at the school that I ended up going to.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you take courses?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I was only there for a year.
Marc:He's a little live wire, a little out of his mind, that guy.
Guest:I could see you kind of in another life turning into that guy.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Is that bad?
Marc:No, it's not terrible.
Marc:I interviewed him.
Marc:I'm a big fan.
Guest:I'm a huge fan.
Marc:He lived the life you see in those books.
Totally.
Guest:And it's kind of questionable.
Marc:Well, it's questionable.
Marc:A lot of drugs.
Marc:There's a lot of speed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like old-timey shooting up, you know, Benzedrine kind of speed.
Marc:But I was... It was a different time.
Guest:I think I got into all that because I was into skateboarding.
Marc:Yep.
Guest:And I skated for a long time and...
Marc:Oh, did the movie Kids change you?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I think I... I didn't see that until I was an adult.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:But I would watch... You know, a big part of skateboarding is photography.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Spike Jonze.
Guest:All of that.
Guest:And, you know, not just skate photography, but the lifestyle around it.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Like documentary kind of photography?
Guest:Yeah, people like Ed Templeton and Jerry Sue and...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:All these guys are being creative and have this thing that they do.
Guest:And that was inspiring to me.
Marc:So that was the life, man.
Marc:So you were like, you know, I can relate to that.
Marc:And I guess it's something we share.
Marc:Like, you know, there was a time for however many years where it was like, I'm going to be an artist of this sort.
Guest:I was going to be an artist and I was going to live in like a tricked out van in like, um, uh, uh, like Cardiff by the sea.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:You're really going out there or down there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Isn't that in Wales?
Guest:Almost Sandy.
Guest:No, not Cardiff.
Guest:Um, what's that place?
Guest:Um,
Guest:You know, there are all these little towns that are kind of close to San Diego, between L.A.
Guest:and San Diego.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like Encinitas.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I wanted to live kind of a beach surf.
Marc:Okay, yeah, sure.
Guest:Skate lifestyle.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And be an artist.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So the archery, like for me, it became practical.
Marc:Like I just couldn't manage.
Guest:Yeah, me too.
Marc:F stops and chemicals.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was like there was too much science in photography.
Guest:Oh, that's why you stopped.
Marc:Yeah, for me to believe that I could really have a control over it.
Guest:Weirdly, I was like, photography is a practical career move for me because I'm not opening myself up much to people.
Guest:I can keep to myself, travel the world.
Guest:I wanted to be like a photojournalist.
Guest:Oh, wow, yeah.
Guest:And then I could but then I could do good for the world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then but I can't really like following my dream of performing felt so far away or being a comedian felt so far away and impossible.
Marc:But you saw photography as a practical thing, both creatively, but also as a job.
Guest:Because if anything, it's one of the art forms that there are kind of paths you can take.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:At that time there was.
Guest:And with being a comedian or being on SNL, I couldn't really think about... How do you get there?
Guest:How do you get there?
Guest:I knew from going on GeoCity's websites about Chris Catan and looking up his biography and being like, okay, so he went to the Groundlings.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So maybe I don't go to college and I just start taking classes at the Groundlings.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I knew I can... It's so hard for me to be any sort of character other than myself...
Guest:I kind of knew that from an early age.
Marc:I said that to Matt.
Marc:I was working with Maddie.
Marc:Maddie Wiener, and we were talking about this, about characters.
Marc:And I said, it takes everything I have to be me.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:And that's so hard to even just be, let myself be me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then I got to be another guy.
Guest:No way.
Marc:And it's like there's a vulnerability to pretending to be somebody.
Marc:I'm too self-conscious for it.
Guest:Way too self-conscious.
Marc:Yeah, it's kind of a drag.
Marc:I've always wanted to do that.
Marc:Because a lot of my friends could do that, like cross...
Marc:was always going in and out of people.
Marc:And I was like, oh, why can't I just... And every time I did it, it was so fraught with vulnerability and fear that it never really translated to funny.
Guest:I'm impressed whenever somebody can just do an accent and then be someone else.
Guest:That's kind of crazy to me that you can kind of...
Guest:change your brain in that way.
Marc:Yeah, like it starts as mimicking, I think.
Marc:But like some actors like to do it because it gets them out of themselves.
Marc:But I believe that some people that can do it are probably pretty fucking well grounded in themselves.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I hope so.
Marc:You look at Bill Hader.
Marc:Whatever that guy grew up with, and I should know because I interviewed him, but he feels very stable to me, and he can do it almost better.
Marc:Armisen's another guy.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think Armisen's a little untethered in there.
Marc:I don't know what's in there, but they do arrive back at themselves fairly confidently.
Guest:Well, you think that, but then you also have to remember that these guys are good actors.
Marc:That's right, yeah.
Guest:You're only seeing what you see.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So how do you make the shift?
Marc:What is the event into performing as an adult?
Guest:Well, I went to art school and then I dropped out.
Marc:Were you living in San Francisco ever?
Guest:I was in Oakland.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So did you come up?
Marc:No, he's older.
Marc:You didn't come up with Kamau.
Guest:No, they're older.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So what happens in Oakland?
Guest:I went to art school.
Guest:I dropped out because my parents were like,
Guest:Well, okay.
Guest:So we only, we didn't foresee you going to a $30,000 a year school and that's kind of all we saved for your college or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So either you, we can try to take out a loan and you can keep going to art school or you can drop out and go to community college or something.
Guest:And so I chose to drop out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, um,
Guest:I went to community college.
Guest:You did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:And I started doing plays there.
Guest:One of the plays went to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.
Marc:Oh, that was it.
Guest:And that wasn't necessarily it.
Marc:But you got exposed to like a fucking tsunami of comedic talent.
Guest:Well, I was told all that had to happen was another adult telling me that I was good at something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That I was good at acting.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that I could do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so that really gave me the confidence.
Guest:And then around that same time, my mom got sick.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And I was working in San Francisco at a video store.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:and kind of just bumming around and sometimes going to community college classes, but really not.
Marc:And you're in the darkness.
Guest:Yeah, and then I found out my mom was sick, and that was like the worst thing that could have ever happened.
Guest:When, you know, ever since I was little, I'm like, if my parents ever die, I'm out.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:I'm out.
Marc:You thought suicidally?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:And then because it's like that was just the worst possible thing I could think of happening.
Marc:It's interesting when you have a brain that that that's the option.
Guest:Well, it's always an option.
Marc:But I mean, how do I deal with the horrible tragedy or grief?
Marc:Well, I'll just kill myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, because life is so hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I'm just speaking in generalities, but it's like I know how like anything that would make it that much darker.
Guest:It almost seemed insurmountable.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So I mean, you know, this is just the thought as like a teenager.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So how did you handle it?
Marc:You showed up, you went down, you were there?
Guest:I started doing stand-up.
Marc:Ah.
Guest:So my mom died, and then a week later I went to my first open mic.
Marc:In Oakland?
Guest:In San Francisco at the Brainwash Cafe.
Marc:At the laundromat?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That started when I was there, kind of.
Guest:And that was, you know, the place to go on, I forget it was Tuesdays or Thursdays, but... Did you put together an act, or...?
Guest:I had a bunch of friends come with me, and I got really drunk, and I had some jokes.
Guest:Art friends?
Guest:Yeah, friends from art school.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And they were all very encouraging, and we had planned it.
Guest:It's like, let's go on this day, and I'll do it.
Marc:How much did you freak out?
Marc:I remember when I started out.
Guest:I got really, really nervous.
Marc:For weeks.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're doing five minutes for weeks.
Yeah.
Guest:I think I kind of work well under extreme pressure.
Marc:But it's interesting, the art school comedy thing, because when I was dating the painter, this was also interesting about talking about this, because I don't know that I ever saw... I get very upset when people say comedy or comics are just doing therapy in front of people.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:It bothers me, because it's not, really.
Marc:There's a context to it, and there's a job to it.
Marc:But Sarah...
Marc:Kane, her paintings are very full of color and she told me that it is her antidepressant.
Marc:And I don't know that I ever consciously thought of comedy as that.
Guest:Comedy for me was my suppressant.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And I didn't let myself grieve because it was too overwhelming.
Guest:And I drank a lot.
Guest:But then I met all these comedians and I'm like...
Guest:I immediately connect with these people immediately connect with them, not just on stage, but like as people who are the people of that, of your generation there.
Guest:Um, David Borey, Anna, Sarah, Gina, Alison Stevenson, Chris Garcia was one of the older.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris, a class of above me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Caitlin Gill, Emily Heller.
Guest:Oh, I know Emily.
Guest:Um,
Guest:You know, Brent Weinbach, I think I just moved to L.A.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So they were the ones they were around.
Guest:They're around for sure.
Marc:And, you know, and you locked in.
Marc:And so you started to like figure out how to write for yourself.
Guest:Figure out how to write for myself what to write about.
Guest:I figured out pretty quickly that it was not therapy for me because I would try to talk about my mom and I just couldn't.
Guest:The fact that I hadn't even like, I didn't even like thinking about, I couldn't even look at a picture of her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or have a memory without getting overwhelmed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I just didn't, I avoided it altogether.
Guest:Right.
Yeah.
Guest:So I talked a lot about what I was going through, which was having a lot of sex.
Marc:Drinking.
Guest:Drinking, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And doing dumb shit.
Marc:All the things you do to avoid grief.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But then also talking about all my, like, all the things I do, all the things that are happening in my head, like OCD stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or these sort of depraved thoughts.
Guest:Honestly, when I was...
Guest:When my mom was dying, a big thing was listening to that interview you did with Maria in the car.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Because she was one of my heroes, like her and all the comedians of comedy people.
Guest:I listened to that, and she was talking about her life and all of her issues, and I connected so deeply to everything.
Marc:And she's very lucid about it.
Guest:Super lucid and obviously is like...
Guest:Just knows how to talk about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And found power in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Find power in it and is interested in it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I really connected with all of that.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Guest:And that kind of was one of the things that I was like, oh, okay, I can make this work for me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because she's like the full spectrum of it.
Marc:And you're like, you know, if I can just do a little of that.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:Like it's an inspiration.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I wish I could do cool voices.
Marc:I know, I know.
Guest:I wish I could embody other people.
Marc:Yeah, but we're not them.
Marc:We're not those people.
Guest:But, so anyway, and then I kind of just started doing that forever, and now I'm just doing it.
Marc:But, like, was there a point, though, where you're like, because I get the sense, like, now when we talk, that you still are kind of like, it's not just stand-up.
Guest:No.
Guest:And I don't think it ever was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I did myself a disservice by getting into it without grieving.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Because that hindered me, just in general, of being really open to stand-up and really jumping in and doing the whole thing.
Marc:I don't know if that's true.
Marc:I think a lot of stand-ups, even the best ones, are still kind of
Marc:shielding themselves from something yeah i guess you're right and there's probably a safety to that of course yeah you know you have control of the narrative and and then you know if you want to dip into that other stuff you can try it see how it feels and then pull out it's hard it's just hard for me to go 100 into stand-up because i like so many different things
Guest:And I've got this concept of time in my head now where I'm like, there's only so much time.
Guest:I feel like I don't have enough time to do everything I want to do.
Guest:So I, I really try to do a lot of stuff all at the same time.
Guest:And that's what I mean by like hindering standup is like, if I just kind of focused on this one lane, then perhaps I would have gone farther in my career, but I'm okay with liking a bunch of different stuff and doing a bunch of different stuff.
Marc:Well, were you still doing art?
Guest:Yeah, I'm doing art.
Guest:I'm making music and acting sometimes.
Marc:But like at the beginning, when you were in art school doing the stand-up, was there a point where you were like all in stand-up?
Guest:I was all in stand-up, but I was still taking pictures of stand-ups.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And when do you start to, like, how does it unfold that you broaden it?
Marc:Like, you know, I mean, to get a job writing on SNL.
Guest:Well, my first writing job was SpongeBob.
Marc:Oh, so how did that happen?
Guest:That happened because I was living in LA and I was like 24.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was living, I wasn't living with my boyfriend yet, but.
Guest:Which boyfriend?
Guest:This guy, Josh Androsky.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was my boyfriend at the time and his neighbor was this guy, Kyle, and he became the head writer of SpongeBob.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Kyle liked us and was like, he asked my boyfriend first if he would want to write on the show.
Guest:And my boyfriend was like, yeah.
Guest:And I remember my boyfriend, he, Josh goes to work to write for SpongeBob and I'm at home alone and I'm like, shit, I wish I could.
Marc:In LA.
Marc:In LA.
Guest:And I was like, I wish I could write for SpongeBob.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then Kyle calls me and he's like, hey, I, cause you know, he, he was just, we're the only young comic writers he knew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, would you ever, have you ever thought about writing?
Yeah.
Guest:It's like, you know, I don't know.
Guest:I'm not really, I don't know if I'm good at it.
Guest:It's like, well, I don't know if you ever want to come right on the Spongebob show.
Guest:And I'm going, the Spongebob show, my favorite cartoon ever.
Guest:This thing I've been watching since I was a child.
Guest:My dad's favorite cartoon.
Guest:But even then I was still like...
Guest:Well, I'll write a sample first, and then you read it and tell me if you think that I could still do it.
Guest:But even though he had basically offered me a job.
Guest:So I wrote a spec, and I sent it.
Guest:And I don't even know if you've read it.
Guest:And he's like, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then I got the job, and that was a really insane experience.
Marc:In a writer's room.
Guest:In a writer's room.
Guest:It was also one of the first, probably the first times they were doing a, like,
Guest:They were changing the way they wrote the show.
Guest:So this was like a proper writer's room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where normally I think it was like they have what they call animation writers and the storyboard artists kind of have their own way of doing things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so when we started doing it, all the old guard there were kind of not having it.
Marc:Oh, so there's a fight.
Guest:They were immediately, I think, annoyed with us comics as writers.
Guest:And, you know, they're all guys who are kind of your age.
Guest:I was the only girl in there.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:But Tom's a nice guy.
Guest:I only met him once.
Marc:Kenny?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He wasn't a part of that process.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:We kind of started at the same time.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:In Boston.
Marc:Well, he started in Syracuse with Bobcat.
Guest:He's awesome.
Marc:They were Bobcat and Tomcat.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And they both moved to Boston when I was in college.
Guest:That's so crazy.
Marc:I saw Bobcat, when he left for LA or San Francisco, he had a garage sale on stage at Stitch's Comedy Club.
Guest:Yeah, that sounds like Bobcat.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So that was, and how long did you stay there?
Guest:Just a couple months because our friend Kyle got fired as the head writer and then we were all subsequently let go.
Guest:But that experience was like...
Guest:you know, it was so exciting and so intimidating and I got to write two episodes on my own and someone told me, someone who was working there told me I was the first woman to have a single writer's credit on an episode.
Guest:I'm like, this show's been on for like 15 years.
Guest:That can't be true.
Guest:And I think I may be of like one of three or four female writers in the whole history of that show.
Guest:There were one time, they just like, some of these guys just treated me really weird and
Guest:You know, I remember I wrote an episode and there were drafts of it passed out to all the people to give notes on, all the other writers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I got those drafts back so I could look at the notes.
Guest:And one of the head guys at the show had drawn on my script a really beautiful drawing of a steaming pile of shit.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because, you know, he's an animator.
Guest:He's a professional animator.
Guest:And it's just my first job and I'm young and I'm like, oh, it felt so bad.
Marc:Was he being a dick, clearly?
Guest:Yeah, he was being a dick.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And that kind of colored my whole experience a bit.
Marc:But also made you know what you were up against.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:But then my next writing job, which was with Shrill, an 80s show.
Marc:Yeah, great show.
Guest:I got to write on two seasons of that, and that writer's room was so, like, ideal and fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I've seen, even my short amount of time of writing, I've seen the gamut of, like...
Guest:How the vibe can be affected by the assholes in the room or just the general feeling of it all.
Guest:I really like it, though.
Marc:It's interesting that there's that fine line of, you know, sort of camaraderie but also competition.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, healthy.
Guest:Ideally, unless you get someone who's really insecure and tries to talk the whole time and get their ideas in.
Guest:There is a way of being in a writer's room.
Guest:When I was younger, I really was nervous to work with other people and just be in groups like that.
Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:That was a whole other empowering thing where I'm like, oh, I know how to be a person.
Guest:I can know how to read the room.
Marc:Everybody who's a writer has that same problem.
Guest:I know.
Marc:So you're with like-minded people.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:So from 80s show, you get referred to SNL?
Guest:I get referred to SNL, yeah.
Guest:And that's how I got that.
Marc:And how long were you there?
Guest:I was there for like a year total, but I started mid-season and then I ended mid-season.
Marc:Huh.
Guest:And I quit.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's like I've only talked to a couple of people that have quit SNL.
Marc:Maybe just you and Hannibal.
Guest:I didn't even know he wrote on that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he quit to be a stand up.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Maybe there's more probably.
Marc:But sure, there's more.
Marc:So what was it about that environment?
Marc:Was it immediately what?
Guest:This was just a couple of years ago.
Guest:I liked to think that at the moment I thought I was pretty secure in myself and my talents.
Guest:Once you get that job, you're like, oh, this is it.
Guest:This is the goal.
Marc:The big time.
Marc:Your childhood dreams.
Guest:For my, yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But at that, at that point I had been told by other people who'd worked there before who are friends of mine, like this job is hard.
Guest:Some people thought it sucked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, Oh, I don't think I could do that.
Guest:And I actually don't feel like I want to do that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I would rather have more autonomy and be a standup and, or write my own things.
Guest:So when I got there, I was like, you know what?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I'm going to embrace this.
Guest:This is pretty insane that I get to do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But almost immediately, and this wasn't forever, but almost immediately I was physically and mentally back in middle school.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I started sweating.
Guest:My palms started sweating for the first time in my life.
Guest:My period stopped because I was so anxious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The first night we would write, we'd write on Tuesday nights.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm in my office.
Guest:I got kind of a big office that I'm sharing with Rose.
Guest:Am I sharing it with Rosebud?
Guest:No, I'm sharing with someone else, but Rosebud came on the year that I came on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm in the office alone.
Guest:I closed my door, and I'm sitting in front of my computer, and I'm like, okay, ideas, ideas.
Guest:And all I can hear are people laughing with each other and running up and down the hall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I immediately start crying because I'm like, I don't I have to I have to make friends again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have to prove myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have to.
Guest:This is a whole other thing.
Guest:Like it's a whole other world.
Guest:It's not any it's not like any other writing job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it just all hit me.
Guest:And it took a little bit for me to get out of that.
Marc:But you never quite got over the hump?
Guest:You know, I did.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:I did, but...
Guest:I, towards the end, I mean, I learned a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I honestly wish I stayed longer because what I really want to do eventually is direct my own stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think you learn so much from working there.
Guest:All the different aspects of making something.
Guest:That's the coolest part.
Guest:You get to talk to costume people and makeup people.
Marc:You get to produce.
Guest:You get to produce.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you learn how to do that in a really short amount of time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So the skill set stuck in.
Marc:But what what what drove the decision to leave?
Guest:I was having some personal problems, some a little mental problems.
Guest:I was drinking a little too much.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I was getting in the groove of the job and I thought I think I was doing pretty well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was getting some stuff on and having fun.
Marc:But who'd you walk into?
Marc:Who'd you write for primarily?
Guest:Well, in the short time, I tried to, I wrote with AD and once or twice with Kyle Mooney and tried to write with Sarah Sherman.
Guest:And this guy, Dan Bola, who works there was very helpful because I found myself writing a lot of music stuff.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And he's kind of the music guy.
Guest:He does the music with Adam Sandler a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Kind of just everybody.
Guest:I tried to work with everybody and see who fit.
Guest:And I don't think I was there long enough to really lock in with any one particular person.
Marc:But most of it wasn't driven by show relative problems.
Marc:It was you were having a mental issue.
Guest:I think it just wasn't... I'm being a little diplomatic.
Guest:But I just think it wasn't for me.
Guest:The more I thought about what I wanted to do and...
Guest:I think I've got to shake myself out of this whole idea of having to do everything I possibly can in a short amount of time before I die.
Guest:Because you never know when you're going to die.
Marc:Yeah, and it's a lot of pressure to put on yourself.
Marc:And it doesn't allow you to really focus on specific things.
Guest:No.
Marc:So when you left, though, what was the guilt and shame factor?
Guest:It was pretty high.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it was important.
Guest:I felt like it was, I needed to leave in order to fix, to help my life.
Marc:Because all this stuff had built up at that point, everything that you've been suppressing, and you've gotten to, what, unhealthy relationships with alcohol and people.
Yeah.
Guest:All sorts of bad things were sort of manifesting.
Guest:It really wasn't until after that that I really started working much harder on facing grief and moving through that.
Guest:And I'm still doing that, but it feels good.
Guest:You know, it...
Guest:I'm in a much better place.
Guest:I think if I were to work at SNL now, I could deal with it and enjoy it.
Marc:It's interesting that even having been in the comedy world, I know we know a lot of the same people.
Marc:You were friends with a lot of the guys from my generation.
Marc:and uh you were kind of integrated into it and everybody seems to know you and you know a lot of people in music and comedy that i imagine that once you kind of landed on your feet emotionally and mentally that was pretty comforting to know that stand-up was there definitely yeah definitely and i i really i you know every so often i i would get in these ruts of like i'm gonna give up right of course and i'm gonna start i think you were in like one two days ago
Guest:Yeah, we were talking about it, and I almost talked myself onto the ledge.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I think, I don't know.
Marc:I learned so much from that short amount of time, and I think... But it also seems like you're pretty focused despite whatever... Because it's hard to determine when someone is like, I don't know about the stand-up and whatever, whether it's actually coming from an insecurity or a self-imposed obstacle, but...
Marc:But it seems like you're pretty clear that you have a broad spectrum creatively, comedically, and you're trying to integrate a lot of things.
Marc:Like on the new record, there's music, there's, you know, what, a recipe?
Guest:There's a sketch.
Marc:So you're like, you're still doing all that.
Marc:And you are kind of...
Marc:Like, you know, a red flag for me when I talk to people, I see what they're doing is when they're kind of half hiding their output.
Marc:And, you know, and what that implies.
Marc:And I don't know what that is with you, but I've known other people where it just comes from insecurity.
Marc:And then when it doesn't take off or no one buys a record, they're like, yeah, man, I don't know.
Guest:But that's insecure.
Guest:That's just the fear of everything, not nothing happening from the output.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you protect yourself against it by minimizing the output.
Guest:100%.
Guest:I'm really proud of... I'm really trying hard not to do that because I do do that all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm proud of my record.
Guest:I'm proud of everything I've done.
Guest:Maybe not in my life.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But creatively, I think...
Guest:I've gotten to express myself a lot.
Guest:And just now I'm like, I think I know what I want to do going forward and how to think about it.
Guest:That's fucking great.
Guest:Like stand-up, it doesn't have to be an end-all or an end at all.
Guest:I can keep doing it.
Guest:And I can do all this other stuff.
Guest:Honestly, I can just keep doing what I'm doing without thinking as hard as I was thinking about it.
Marc:Well, yeah, because you have an artist's brain.
Marc:You just have to accept that that's the life you're living and not be so hard on yourself and just see where it goes.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think I'm really excited about all the stuff I think I'm going to do.
Guest:I just got to do it.
Guest:I recently directed something for the first time.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I was really afraid to do that.
Marc:Worked out.
Guest:And then, yeah, once I did it, I was like, I know what I'm doing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:To a certain degree.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And I know how to learn from other people without being an asshole.
Marc:Well, good.
Guest:I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I think you're doing good work.
Marc:And I think we did a good car ride talk.
Guest:Do you like the movie?
Marc:I did like the movie.
Guest:Okay, good.
Marc:But that wasn't... You didn't write it.
Guest:No, I know.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:You were great in it.
Guest:I just made you watch it.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:Because I did take it in.
Marc:I understood the limitations of the situation.
Marc:And knowing that they were improvising... I did like a lot of the qualities of the interaction.
Marc:And improvising depth is difficult.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:And those guys, they did all right with it.
Marc:You were a lot more grounded...
Marc:You know, in where you were coming from.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:And in your sort of emotional responsibility in the movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Those guys were kind of all over the place.
Marc:But it was entertaining.
Guest:And I'm glad.
Marc:And through, you know, their exploring these type of men the best they could, there was some kind of interesting and provocative man stuff in there.
Okay.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:There's a lot of interesting and provocative man stuff in here, baby.
Marc:Pointing to my brain.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, thanks for taking me on the road.
Guest:I hope I'm not annoying in any way.
Marc:No, I think we've got the hang of each other.
Guest:I think we understand each other.
Marc:We do.
Marc:Good talk.
Marc:there you go nice uh nice car ride conversation i like doing those it worked out uh her album again is called everything i know how to do it's available on all streaming platforms hang out for a minute folks
Marc:Hey folks, I've been watching a lot of movies lately.
Marc:So for full Marin subscribers, we just posted an episode where I talked about my summer watch list.
Marc:Jeremiah Johnson's a pretty satisfying movie.
Marc:Oh, sure.
Marc:And it's again, one of those movies where it's one guy against the fucking world against, you know, it becomes, you know, the military fucks him.
Marc:He makes a deal with the devil, walks them through that cemetery, knowing he shouldn't.
Marc:And he's fucked.
Marc:And, you know, you just assume that those guys got killed anyways.
Marc:But then it's just him against any random native assassin that comes from anywhere.
Marc:For years!
Marc:For years!
Marc:And somehow, like, at the end, he just... Him and the original guy, they just do the little, you know, arguably slightly racist, you know, how sign.
Marc:And...
Marc:and everything everything's okay you can get that episode plus all the bonus episodes we do twice a week when you sign up for the full marin go to the link in the episode description or head over to wtfpod.com and click on wtf plus and just a reminder before we go this podcast is hosted by a cast all right here's an oldie guitar riff by me yeah
Thank you.
Guest:Boomer lives.
Guest:Monkey and La Fonda.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere.