Episode 1557 - Dan St. Germain
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuck, Canadians?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:I'm in Vancouver, Canada.
Marc:I know I've been up here a lot lately.
Marc:I'm going home in a couple days.
Marc:You know, it's back and forth a bit, but I've been up here pretty steady.
Marc:And as I reported on another day, things are going pretty good.
Marc:I'm getting the hang of what is exciting about the job.
Marc:And I hope that you can do that too with your job if possible.
Marc:I'm just telling you what's going on with me.
Marc:But right now, where am I at?
Marc:Where are you at?
Marc:How are you feeling?
Marc:I feel okay in this moment.
Marc:And hopefully it'll last a few more.
Marc:It comes and goes.
Marc:I am at the whims of my dopamine experience.
Marc:And neural pathways in terms of which ride do I choose to go on, if you know what I'm saying.
Marc:But I just had this sandwich.
Marc:And this is not even a plug because I don't even know what to tell you, really.
Marc:It wasn't a complicated sandwich.
Marc:I toasted up this.
Marc:There was this pita bread that you can get, Angel brand.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:It's the best.
Marc:And I had an avocado that I didn't want to rot entirely.
Marc:They always rot.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I buy them slightly hard.
Marc:And I think, like, well, this will time out well.
Marc:And then I just watched them turn into garbage or compost, depending on your ideological lean.
Marc:But I made this avocado sandwich with toasted pita bread, cut it open, spread the avocado on one side.
Marc:And then a fan of mine, Shelly, gave me some S&B umami topping crunchy garlic with chili oil made in Japan.
Marc:And this is basically chili crunch with these fried garlic slices in it.
Marc:And I got to be honest with you.
Marc:Look, I don't know how long it'll last in terms of how I feel this way.
Marc:But right now, I just ate, and I'm talking like 12 minutes ago, one of the best things I've ever put in my fucking mouth.
Marc:And those things are fleeting and maybe it won't hold up.
Marc:But I thought I'd share it with you that I took a bite of this thing with the avocado on the sandwich, this crunchy garlic chili crunch.
Marc:And holy shit.
Marc:I'm just kind of, I'm trying to hold on to it because that's what I think about a lot of the times, folks.
Marc:When the world gets too large for me, I think about nicotine and food.
Marc:Dan St.
Marc:Germain is my guest today.
Marc:He was on a live WTF like back in 2010, but he never did a full episode.
Marc:And he's got this new special out called Dan St.
Marc:Germain Dance Fatty Dance.
Marc:And I've known Dan a long time.
Marc:He trudges the path as I trudged the path.
Marc:And those of you who trudged the path know what I'm talking about.
Marc:And, you know, we got into it.
Marc:I've been talking to some people that do the trudging.
Marc:Yeah, we're covering people.
Marc:Got a lot of interesting feedback about the Trey Anastasio episode.
Marc:Fish fans, a very opinionated bunch.
Marc:But I'll tell you one thing.
Marc:Trey loved it.
Marc:I'll tell you that.
Marc:And he showed me a post on a board by a fan that he thought really got it.
Marc:And 95, 96% of them all seemed pretty excited about it.
Marc:But the ones that don't and the principles they have around fish and what it means to be a fish fan and their relationship with Trey, pretty interesting stuff.
Marc:Fantastic.
Marc:Fairly hostile bunch, some of them.
Marc:But, you know, that's the same with any cult, right?
Marc:So Dan St.
Marc:Germain and I talk about drugs and alcohol, as did Trey and I. And I think it's interesting because somebody had posted a comment, you know, just sort of like, why all the drug talk?
Marc:I don't do drugs.
Marc:I don't talk about it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But let me tell you one thing I know, no matter how you stay sober or whatever you do to get there, it's fine.
Marc:But when people that people look up to or have on a pedestal or respect, talk about not doing drugs or alcohol or whatever it is that was destroying their life, it helps countless people and
Marc:countless i can't even tell you if there's any effect that i can sort of register about what i do on this podcast and what i talk about it's that people who are trying to stay sober off of one thing or another get a tremendous amount of inspiration when they hear people like myself or people i talk to talking about that
Marc:And I see in the emails, I see it and hear it when people talk to me.
Marc:So if there's anything I leave this world, if I can help somebody do that, that's a fucking miracle.
Marc:A fucking miracle.
Marc:And I've had fans who have gotten back to me after 10 years sober that said, 10 years ago, you threw the switch and I can't be any more of service than that in any more tangible way.
Marc:So if anybody has a problem with talking about addiction or recovery because it's not their thing or they're doing just fine with it, can go fuck themselves.
Marc:And I say that with love.
Marc:I say it with total love.
Marc:I also wanted to bring up, I just watched a special podcast.
Marc:from a comedian who I've had on years ago.
Marc:Very nice guy and a very solid, long-form comic.
Marc:I haven't been in touch with him.
Marc:I don't know what he's up to, but he did make a very pleasant and funny special with some edge and some heart.
Marc:His name's Chad Daniels, and it's on Netflix.
Marc:It's called Chad Daniels Empty Nester, and you can stream that now.
Marc:I was just watching it in my trailer, waiting to do the thing, because I wanted to check in.
Marc:I have time, and I watch comedy specials.
Marc:I like to see what people are doing, but I know when they're good, and that Chad Daniels Empty Nester, that's a solid special.
Marc:I'll be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater on Friday, September 20th.
Marc:Then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theater on Saturday, September 21st.
Marc:A lot of dates coming up.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all those dates.
Marc:And yeah.
Marc:Oh, also, my HBO comedy special, From Bleak to Dark, is available as a digital download or as a vinyl EP.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And the cover is solid.
Marc:It's solid metal.
Marc:You can get it on the homepage of WTFPod.com or go to CraftRecordings.com and pick it up there.
Marc:I get the vinyl just for the cover.
Marc:Very happy with the cover.
Marc:Many of you know the story behind the cover.
Marc:It was the day I passed out on the top of the mountain and hit my face on the gravel.
Marc:It's going to be a collector's item for those of you who give a shit, but right now it's not because there's still plenty left.
Marc:I think I'm going to work out a deal with Kraft so I'll sign some and make those available.
Marc:It's funny because I haven't really been pushing it that much because I forget about it, but it's a very nice recording, Kraft recording.
Marc:That company, Kraft Recordings, does a lot of great reissues and stuff.
Marc:I'm happy with them.
Marc:And I have many craft recording.
Marc:They actually, I think they were the ones that did that Credence Clearwater at Albert Hall box.
Marc:That's fucking awesome.
Marc:It's weird with the music.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Because I, like for some reason, I've just been listening to Metallica's first three records.
Yeah.
Marc:I was never a Metallica guy, but the last two times I was at the gym, the three times maybe, I'm just plowing through those first three records and listening to some of them twice.
Marc:I don't know what switched in my head, but I'm happy to announce that I'm now a 14-year-old boy in 1988.
Guest:And apparently, I've been shutting that neural pathway down in terms of the possibility of releasing some of that juice.
Marc:through metal, and it's happening now.
Marc:I'm 60.
Marc:Look.
Marc:So I've been talking pretty nicely, I think, about Canada, my feelings about it.
Marc:And I admitted I don't know much about what's going on up here politically or otherwise, but I enjoy being here.
Marc:And I enjoy sort of being out of the States a bit.
Marc:And I don't think I've made any other implications other than like I'd like to live here.
Marc:Not because it doesn't matter what I'm saying.
Marc:All I'm saying is that it was only a matter of time before one of my fans
Marc:wrote me a very detailed email just about how fucking shitty Canada is on some levels.
Marc:Inflation, bad.
Marc:There's a housing crisis.
Marc:The cost of living is grossly incongruous with median wages, his words.
Marc:Our leaders are in the pocket of retail and service conglomerates.
Marc:That monopolized the economy.
Marc:I'm paraphrasing and also quoting him.
Marc:Taxes are surging.
Marc:Infrastructure weakening.
Marc:And then even though I said no guns, but he brings up the worst, the worst deadliest mass shooting in Canadian history took place right by his house.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:Jeez.
Marc:And he just his point, he says, is it feels dire everywhere.
Marc:Well, and then he points out that America has definite influence on Canadian policies and culture and everything else.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:What a fucking buzzkill, man.
Marc:I, you know, I could have assumed that, you know, and he said, quote, I know you've been conscious to acknowledge the limits of your Canadian expertise.
Marc:I just wanted to offer feedback from a citizen who perceives it differently.
Marc:It's not a pissing match.
Marc:He says Canada simply can't be the American ideal or how things ought to be.
Marc:And it can't be America's escape hatch.
Marc:And then he says, after all of that, I am genuinely thrilled to hear that your time in our country has been comfortable and comforting.
Marc:Not anymore.
Guest:Thanks, pal.
Guest:I don't know if it's America's escape hatch.
Guest:Might be mine.
Marc:And I certainly didn't think it was the system that we need to have there.
Marc:I wasn't saying that.
Marc:Look, I'm 60.
Marc:I'm just looking for a way to land this plane in a place that I feel peaceful and happy and I can breathe and my brain is clean.
Marc:If that's possible.
Marc:But thank you for all this information.
Guest:I will never look at it through rose-colored glasses again.
Guest:I will never romanticize Canada.
Marc:I will not enjoy it the way I did before, and I certainly will not idealize it in any way.
Marc:But bottom line, still no guns.
Guest:Sorry about that one guy.
Guest:And also, hardly anybody lives here.
Guest:I hear you, but there's still a lot in the plus column.
Guest:But you have dirtied my mind about Canada, so you've done what you set out to do.
Guest:Now, now I know.
Guest:Thank you, Colin.
Guest:And this was not aggressive.
Guest:And I know you're a fan, but thank you for the reality check, the total buzzkill, and for shifting my brain about loving your country.
Marc:One other thing I want to hit, because something happened today.
Marc:So, you know, I've got this Zim problem, and I am a drug addict.
Marc:Real deal.
Marc:real deal and uh there are just moments where you realize like dude whatever however you're going to manage your dopamine what however yeah whatever you want to do if that's your deal managing dopamine
Marc:You know, there's a spectrum to it.
Marc:There's some drug addicts around here that are very hardcore, smoking the fentanyl, smoking the meth, and just, you know, the amount of dignity surrendered to appease and get that thing met, to meet that particular Satan where he lives so you can get that dopamine going.
Marc:That is the far part of the spectrum, and it's ugly and sad.
Marc:But I'll tell you, I'm on these Zins.
Marc:And I don't know if you guys know this.
Marc:There's a Zin shortage around the world.
Marc:There's a lot of mythology around the Zin shortage.
Marc:You can't get the Zins in America that easily.
Marc:You can't get flavored ones in California at all because they're illegal.
Marc:And up here, they're impossible to find.
Marc:And I'm a little strung out.
Marc:I'm a little strung out on them.
Marc:I've got nicotine gum.
Marc:I know what's going on.
Marc:I've been here before.
Marc:But what happened today is a new place for me.
Marc:I met a comic.
Marc:This dude, he lives here.
Marc:And we were talking at one of the shows I did.
Marc:He does morning radio here, too.
Guest:His name's Alex Carr.
Guest:And he pulls out some Zins.
Guest:I'm like, dude, where'd you get those?
Guest:He's like, I get a mail order.
Guest:I'm like, what the fuck?
Guest:I can't find them anywhere.
Guest:He's like, oh, well, I get a mail order.
Guest:I got a bunch of them.
Guest:Can I have some?
Guest:So he gives me the 10 he's been working on.
Guest:And I was like, thanks.
Guest:And I've been just sort of kind of like trying to, yeah, there's six milligrams, more than I need.
Guest:I like the threes, but, you know, I tried to spread them out and mix them in with the nicotine gum and some other knockoff pouches from China.
Guest:So I'm just, I don't even, where are these from?
Guest:What difference does it make?
Guest:They look, they look right.
Guest:But it's so stupid.
Guest:I've been off it before.
Guest:I know where I'm at.
Guest:But I'm not covered.
Guest:Before I get to LA, I need some.
Guest:So I reach out to this guy, Alex, who I don't really know.
Guest:And I'm like, dude, you holding?
Guest:You got any tins?
Guest:Can I buy some off you?
Guest:And he's like, all right.
Guest:Where do you want me to meet you?
Guest:So...
Guest:Oh, what a mensch that guy is.
Guest:He showed up.
Guest:I met him downstairs with a couple of tins.
Guest:I was exchanging cash.
Guest:I'm like, don't give them to me.
Guest:I'll pay for all of it.
Guest:We're exchanging cash on the street.
Guest:He's handing me the little plastic tins of Zins.
Guest:And I'm like, dude, fucking saved my life, man.
Guest:I got to get a handle on this, man.
Guest:I'll quit tomorrow.
Guest:It was ridiculous.
Guest:Doing a street deal for the nicotine pouches.
Marc:All right, look, Dan St.
Marc:Germain is a good guy, funny guy.
Marc:His new special Dance Fatty Dance is now streaming on YouTube.
Marc:He also has a new podcast called Working Stiff, where he talks about wrestling with other comics.
Marc:And it was good to talk to him.
Marc:And now you can listen to it.
Marc:It's good to see you there, Dan.
Marc:It's good to see you too, dude.
Guest:I haven't seen you in a while.
Guest:You were my first big headliner weekend.
Guest:I was opening for you at the Sacramento Punchline.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:In like 2009 or 10.
Guest:How did that work out?
Guest:Was that an Olivia thing?
Guest:That was an Olivia thing, I think, yeah.
Guest:But I was like...
Guest:You know, I was, like, pumped and also nervous for it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was like, oh, my God, this guy's got a whole Times article written about him.
Guest:Oh, that was after that?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Did we sell well?
Guest:Was there people there?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think it was sold out every night.
Marc:I kind of remember that.
Guest:It was like you were already, like, the podcast was already doing well.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's when you had the long hair and you were kind of... Long hair.
Marc:Oh, were we staying in those condos across the street?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:We were staying in the condos.
Guest:We would go to this Mexican place at lunch and then Guitar Center.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'd watch you play.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:We went to Guitar Center.
Marc:I'm kind of putting it together now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I actually, I think I had the creation of like your... I was like, oh, this is probably how he woos women to...
Marc:I'm never that proud of my guitar playing.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:I'm one of the few who got into show business not to impress women.
Guest:But, you know, you actually play.
Guest:I mean, everyone knows this already, but Mark's like a real guitar player.
Marc:I can play, yeah.
Guest:Like, he can actually really play.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I think it was just a matter of, like, you know what?
Marc:I remember I was looking for an acoustic guitar.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I ended up getting one eventually, but I remember that's what I wanted, that I didn't have an acoustic guitar, and I thought I would go over there and look at new acoustic guitars.
Marc:I think that was what was going on.
Marc:How many guitars do you have now?
Marc:I see two right here.
Marc:Well, you know, I really, I'm not one of those weird kind of boomer collectors.
Marc:I try to get them for free.
Marc:Like that black one I got for free, and that other one I bought out of spite.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't know how many I have, but I did buy an old one.
Marc:I just like the ones that I like to play, and I have a lot that I don't really play, and I should just get rid of them.
Marc:And I got these amps.
Marc:I love those.
Marc:They're all old.
Guest:So you don't give a shit about getting a signed guitar or anything like that?
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Marc:And I don't really give a shit as guitar is investment, which is really what they do.
Marc:I think John Bonamassa has completely ruined the vintage guitar market single-handedly by making them...
Marc:You know, legit investments.
Marc:I mean, if you can dig up these old guitars and find them for a certain price, they do, what do you call it, get more valuable as time goes on.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I knew a guy that was willing to sell everything he had to get, like, a 56 Telecaster or whatever because he knew that in 10 years he would make $20,000.
Marc:I'm not that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, that sounds like a lot of work, honestly.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:Everything sounds like a lot of work.
Marc:Money.
Guest:Everything sounds like a lot of work.
Marc:It sounds like a lot of work.
Marc:I'm just trying to remember you at that time.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, we had the same manager.
Marc:I guess we still do.
Marc:We do, yeah.
Marc:We're still at Old Avalon.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think Kelly.
Marc:Yeah, but we started with Olivia.
Marc:I was with Olivia after Becky.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And that was one of those situations where your manager goes like, yeah, I'm going to stop managing.
Marc:And you're like, oh, so.
Guest:I had, I once had an agent who's, I'm like, she stopped.
Guest:And I'm like, what are you doing?
Guest:She goes, going into environmental work.
Guest:I was like, all right, well, good luck.
Guest:I guess I'm proud of you in a way.
Guest:But what the fuck do I do?
Marc:I'm glad you got a conscience.
Marc:Show business enabled you to figure out how soulless the endeavor was.
Guest:You forget that they're in the middle of their own movie.
Guest:Oh, yeah, of course.
Guest:You do.
Guest:I went to the Silent Retreat once.
Guest:Do you know Spirit Walk?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:It's like one of those.
Guest:I was in between writing jobs trying to find myself.
Guest:I get there, and then I see a bag like William Morris.
Guest:I was like, oh, man, you can't fucking get away from me.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, the Silent Retreat.
Guest:Someone was there.
Guest:Yeah, Jack Kornfield.
Guest:It was Jack Kornfield's place.
Marc:Jack Kornfield.
Marc:Who's that guy?
Marc:I know that name.
Guest:He was one of the guys who brought meditation, one of the big four, like him, Sharon Salzberg, and a few other people.
Marc:So this is something you've pursued.
Guest:I have.
Guest:I haven't lately.
Guest:I haven't lately.
Guest:I fell out of practice, but I had a time where I was very into it.
Guest:I should get back to it, but it's very difficult.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:I mean, for me, it's difficult.
Marc:I don't know why it is.
Marc:Because for me, too, I never really got into it.
Marc:And I know that's part of the deal that you go through.
Marc:You get into these pockets of ways of thinking.
Marc:Certainly, if you play in recovery, where people are like, meditation's where it's at.
Marc:So over the pandemic, I did sit.
Marc:with like that head, whatever that app is.
Marc:Headspace.
Marc:Headspace.
Marc:And I was able to kind of do it.
Marc:And it's really only 15 minutes.
Marc:And you think like, I don't know if this is working or not, but I think maybe it is.
Marc:But for some reason, just to put that 15 minutes together a day, it's like, I can't fucking...
Marc:You know, just to sit.
Guest:Yeah, it's tough.
Guest:I mean, and I got I mean, I don't know.
Guest:I'm very I have I have some form of obsessive compulsive disorder, not the part that not like whatever form doesn't make me like good at counting cards, unfortunately.
Guest:But it's it's supposed to help with that.
Guest:And I guess it does a little bit, you know.
Marc:I don't know why I don't make the time to do it.
Marc:I think that there's a certain type of personality where we're kind of set in the ways of what we do.
Guest:But you seem pretty, I mean, not calm, but you seem a little more centered.
Guest:Well, I think I am.
Guest:Than you were then, probably.
Marc:I think I am centered, and I'm trying to be less kind of anxiety-driven and crazy and panicky.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, it's always tough.
Marc:But I watched a new special.
Marc:Oh, sweet, man.
Marc:And I was trying to figure out, like, did you plan it?
Guest:Of course I planned the special.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's a fucking ringing endorsement right off the bat.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:It was shot in a small club.
Marc:Small club.
Marc:And I couldn't tell what was on the background.
Guest:Well, that's Old Man Hustle.
Guest:That's the comedy club.
Guest:They have Brooklyn Comedy Club.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Because I'm like, what does Old Man Hustle mean?
Marc:I couldn't paint over it.
Guest:It was a conversation.
Guest:I couldn't paint over it.
Marc:I was like, is this part of the special?
Marc:Am I missing...
Marc:You know, like, I didn't know.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It's just a small black box theater.
Guest:I am in my head about it, so I'm glad you picked that up on that right in the beginning.
Guest:Sorry, daddy.
Guest:But, no, it's just I couldn't, like, you know, like, I wanted a place that I could fill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I funded it.
Guest:And feel comfortable.
Guest:Funded it myself.
Guest:I'm comfortable in most places, but, like, a place I could fill, honestly, shout out to Sam Black for that.
Guest:She's awesome.
Guest:And she, you know, just did it as a favor for me, but...
Guest:You know, I knew I could fill it and I knew that, you know, the guy was going to, you know, Ed who owns it, good guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was going to give it to me for free.
Guest:So that's why I did it there.
Guest:But, you know, hopefully that doesn't make people not watch it.
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:I started meditating in front of you.
Marc:I just didn't know if that was part of it or whether, you know, it was the name of the place.
Marc:There was just a moment.
Marc:But I got past it.
Marc:Yeah, I'm glad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the special was good.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:The jokes were good.
Guest:I appreciate it.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:You know, I'm a big fan of intelligent filth.
Marc:Yeah, I get put in that queue.
Marc:Yeah, I used to.
Marc:I feel like I need to get back in it.
Marc:Well, your last special was great.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Appreciate it.
Marc:That was really good.
Marc:You know, that was the other thing about, like, Lynn.
Marc:She was a TM person.
Guest:Twice a day, man.
Guest:Was she kind of like getting you to do that?
Marc:Well, no, I mean, but it was just part of her life.
Marc:No, it had been dug in for a long time.
Marc:It was just part of who she was.
Marc:But no matter what she was doing, whether she was on set or any other time, you know, 20 minutes twice a day, she was in it.
Marc:And she would go out.
Marc:She was good at it.
Guest:Did you notice like a change in her after she did it as far as like her...
Marc:Well, I think it was really integrated into her life to the point where it was necessary to maintain, you know, her whatever her grounding is or stability.
Marc:But it was just like she was so into it that like, you know, she's one of those people that because she had a practice, you know, she would have to sit a certain way.
Marc:And then like within a minute, she was out.
Marc:You know, she was, like, in it, and you could feel the difference of somebody who was that well-practiced.
Marc:You know, because she would do it, and I'd kind of walk by the room and be like, all right, well, she's wherever she is.
Guest:Were you ever having, like, a freakout, and then you, like, walk past her, and you're like, oh.
Guest:I'm resenting your fucking serenity right now.
Marc:Well, no, I mean, I always found it curious and I appreciated the practice, you know, and that she would be so compulsive about it.
Marc:But because I'm like I am and I'm a comic and I'm a dick, I'd be like, all right, whatever you got to do.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:We got to get each other through this.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But wait, so now I'm trying to remember.
Marc:But yeah, I mean, the special is good.
Marc:Do not misunderstand what I'm saying.
Guest:No, when I saw you in Austin, you complimented the special.
Guest:I was like, oh, good.
Guest:All right, that's a fucking weight off.
Guest:You know, I don't have to worry about that.
Guest:During the interview, being like, you should really strive for more, you know, something like that.
Marc:Well, look, man, it's weird about the nature of special.
Marc:So you did it all yourself?
Guest:I basically, well, 800 pound gorilla came in at the end.
Guest:They gave some funding and they're helping now a little bit.
Guest:I mean, I got an offer, like one of these offers that like, you know, they offered like 20 people at the same time and were going to give me like a little bit of money.
Guest:It was going to be, and I just, I, I would, they wanted me to do a full hour and I was like, no,
Guest:No one wants to see me for a fucking hour, man.
Guest:People aren't doing the hours anymore.
Guest:40 minutes.
Guest:The job has changed.
Guest:The job has changed.
Guest:You know, we're competing with, you know, 30 second dog welcoming soldier home videos.
Guest:We can't we can't compete with that.
Marc:I'm more in the I'm more in the cat saving algorithm.
Marc:Look, we found this this near death little monster and we're going to.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:I hate.
Guest:Yeah, I get those, too.
Guest:Or like for a week, I just had amputees.
Guest:And I'm like, how did this happen?
Guest:You know?
Guest:I get a lot of... You start furiously masturbating, dude.
Marc:I get a lot of weird kind of large-scale cooking endeavors.
Marc:Oh, those are good.
Marc:Yeah, where you're just sort of like, is that oil?
Marc:How big is that piece of dough?
Marc:What are they mixing that in?
Marc:Why are they touching it?
Marc:You know, a lot of that stuff.
Marc:Yeah, it's relaxing.
Marc:I find those relaxing.
Marc:Oh, I love them.
Marc:I love them.
Marc:Then there's these ones where they just satisfying cleaning jobs.
Guest:I don't have those.
Marc:I don't get those.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:You just see these guys.
Marc:I've seen them through a pipe that goes under a road.
Marc:They have a tractor with a chain hooked to a dead tire on the other side of the pipe, and they just pull the fucking tire through the pipe in this slide.
Marc:Oh, the sludge comes out.
Marc:Yeah, like a giant turd.
Guest:Oh, jeez.
Guest:And it's sort of like, that feels good.
Guest:Yeah, no, that's like my wife watches like pimple popper videos for that reason.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:She like relaxes.
Guest:And I can see it because I kind of watch them too and I see the relaxes.
Marc:Yeah, I'm a big fan of the Tourette's influencers.
Marc:Love them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'll show you one after that.
Marc:Like, you know, I talked about in the podcast, like, are we allowed to laugh?
Marc:Because, you know, they're putting this up there.
Marc:And I, you know, I embrace and empathize and understand Tourette's.
Marc:But some of them have these tics where they say things where it's like, that's the best comedy I've ever seen in my life.
Guest:Well, it's always like that's, you know, I think that's the biggest problem with stand up now is.
Guest:Not enough Tourette's?
Guest:That'll be the new fucking thing.
Guest:But like we're competing with everyone, like just capturing organic shit on their phone.
Guest:And that's always going to be more funny.
Guest:It's like your best friend telling you a story is always going to be more funny than like the best Richard Pryor set you've ever seen, you know, because, you know, there's just something that's just in the moment about that.
Marc:Well, I think, isn't that the shift to content as drug and it's kind of the death of narrative and conversation?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a paper I'm writing.
Guest:You know when somebody says something true that's also depressing where I'm just like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, the end of the world.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:Yeah, I get it.
Marc:Yeah, I get it.
Guest:Why did I do this?
Guest:Why did I choose to do this again?
Yeah.
Marc:yeah believe me i i'm not doing that like i don't i don't do that why did i choose to do this but like there's some part of me that thinks am i doing some ancient form i mean it may very well be doing chamber music yeah we may both be doing chamber music kind of uh you know but but fortunately somehow i've i've uh i've got an audience of middle-aged people that are fairly intelligent and you still have just individuals coming to your show because
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I sell more single tickets.
Guest:Do you have more single tickets?
Marc:Now those people tend to bring people.
Marc:Oh, there you go.
Marc:They evolved like you did.
Marc:The joke that evolved now is that I know there's about 30 percent of the people in here are kind of disgruntled middle aged women.
Marc:And then there's another 30 percent of the people they brought.
Marc:So there's a lot of people sitting here going like, so this is the guy, huh?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's always annoying when you see them turn to the other one like, let's see what he's got.
Guest:Let's see what he's got.
Marc:Does that really happen or is that something we're making up, Dan?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Are you making up that crowd in your head?
Marc:Because I do.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I've definitely bombed.
Guest:Have you ever been a comedian who says they haven't bombed?
Guest:I'm like, oh, this is like a serial killer or something.
Marc:Yeah, but I've realized that they're lying.
Marc:Because I've seen sets of people.
Marc:And these are guys I know, and I don't begrudge them.
Marc:But years ago, there was this guy I used to work with in San Francisco.
Marc:And I saw the set he did.
Marc:It was okay.
Marc:But I hear him talking about it a couple hours later.
Marc:It's like, I killed.
Marc:I'm like, I don't know if you know what that is.
Guest:One of my best friends in comedy, Mike Lawrence.
Guest:I love that guy.
Guest:I love that guy.
Guest:He's actually, I think, open...
Guest:A lot, yeah.
Guest:A lot, yeah.
Guest:But we were watching this guy, and we were both kind of like, how's this guy not quit?
Guest:And Mike said to me, he goes, he hears laughs that aren't there.
Guest:And I was like, oh, you're right.
Guest:It is a form of psychosis.
Marc:That's true.
Guest:Very funny guy.
Marc:And I think you adjust to the type of laughs you get, because I know a medium laugh, and I know which jokes are only going to get a medium laugh, and if I like the joke enough, I'm like, that's fine.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:What do I expect out of that one?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:I want to do it.
Guest:This is an amp up bit.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So when I met you, like, yeah, I mean, it seems to me that you've gone through different waves of trouble.
Yeah.
Marc:You're always on a wave of trouble.
Guest:Well, you know, I like to think that I do good for a little bit and then, you know, I'm good now.
Guest:I'm six months sober now.
Guest:That's good.
Marc:But this has been so fucking ongoing.
Guest:It's been a long time.
Marc:I mean, you're one of those guys, though, like, and we all know them.
Marc:I'm certainly in the arts or in the business where, you know, where you have these very prolific and together, you know, productive, creative periods.
Marc:And then someone says, well, how's Dan doing?
Marc:It's like, well, not great right now.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, part of the reason I'm on this is to get more work.
Guest:So I'm in a good period right now, guys.
Guest:But yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, I get like, just to give you an idea of like, okay, after I saw you right there.
Marc:In Austin?
Marc:Or in Sacramento?
Guest:This was in Sacramento.
Guest:You know, like a year later, I had two and a half years sober and then I started drinking again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you go.
Marc:It doesn't seem like you're the kind of person.
Guest:Yeah, it's mornings.
Marc:But you're not the kind of person that goes, I can have a casual drink.
Marc:It's like when you decide to drink, it's a matter of weeks before it's a fucking shit show.
Guest:Well, yeah, I mean, that's just my personality.
Guest:Like, you know, like I had like, like actually right around then I got like a root canal and they gave me like 13 Vicodin.
Guest:I took them all at once.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like that's just, you know.
Marc:Was that just to get high or to end it?
Guest:Just to get high.
Guest:And I didn't get high like I thought.
Guest:Like Vicodin doesn't work on me.
Guest:So that was kind of a bummer.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:It's all right.
Guest:But like, let's like go back though.
Guest:I mean, like, where'd you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in Rutherford, New Jersey, and then Westchester, New York in high school.
Guest:So you were always an East Coast guy?
Guest:Always an East Coast guy.
Guest:And I actually spent four years in L.A.
Guest:I'm not going to say where you live, but I lived around here for a little bit of it.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But what got you into this game?
Marc:I mean, do you have brothers and sisters in here?
Guest:I do have a sister.
Guest:She's starting to be a social worker now.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But I...
Guest:Oh, I love social work.
Marc:Yeah, it's a lot of work.
Marc:I wrote a pilot that was centered around social work.
Marc:I think it's like these unsung heroes.
Guest:Yeah, they're like, as soon as you said that, I already saw the annoying network notes for it.
Guest:Yeah, but can you make them less sad?
Guest:Can you make them less sad?
Marc:Well, it's like that's where I got to.
Guest:It's a women's shelter.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's where the title of the special came from.
Marc:It's like an FX executive after me and Lipside turned in a second story idea for a second episode.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He said, well, we love it.
Marc:You know, there's no real notes.
Marc:But is there any way we can get it from bleak to dark?
Guest:But it's a great special title.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That was a good one, too.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Guest:And I hate fucking watching specials.
Marc:I watch more now.
Marc:Like, I didn't for a long time, but now I'll watch everyone's special if I can.
Guest:That must mean you're good emotionally, because it's like, I remember I read this book about John Lennon, and he couldn't listen to any...
Guest:He would be like, fuck, I'm not making anything right now.
Marc:It's good that you pick a high bar to compare yourself to, to resent yourself.
Marc:It's good that your model is in place.
Guest:No, no, I'm not comparing it to me.
Guest:I mean, I'm not fucking John.
Guest:No, no, it's just that we all do it.
Marc:I think what I've grown to do is understand, like, fuck, I wish I could do that, but I don't.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm, I seem to be more okay with that.
Marc:Like when I see a cut, like I watched Rory Scovel's special.
Marc:So good, man.
Marc:He's so good.
Marc:And like, and like, I don't know why more people don't know him, but we're all in the same boat.
Marc:We do a certain thing and it's like, it's not for everybody, but you know, he really sort of, uh, in a very kind of, um, what's the word I want?
Marc:Like you don't realize because of the way he delivers just how deep and heavy the shit he's talking about is.
Guest:Well, he's also – he's so relaxed.
Guest:And somebody said this about – I think it was like Steve Kerr who's the coach of the Golden State Warriors.
Guest:And it's the same thing about Rory where the greatest thing about Michael Jordan was that he was in the moment.
Guest:And Rory is like a guy who I always see in the – I've seen him in a bunch of different scenarios.
Guest:And he never tries to like –
Guest:He always meets the energy and then takes it to wherever he wants it to go.
Guest:It's pretty impressive.
Marc:But he talks about big shit.
Marc:He's not shying away from anything.
Marc:So you and your sister in Rutherford... My dad and my mom...
Guest:But your dad was in show business?
Guest:My dad was a writer, kind of worked for the Arts Council when I was younger, and then moved to L.A.
Guest:for a year, got a job writing for the Suzanne Plachette Show.
Guest:After Newhart?
Guest:Yeah, after Newhart.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then moved back.
Guest:He loves playwriting.
Guest:That's his thing.
Guest:He's a playwright.
Guest:And he...
Guest:And then he got a job writing for the Cosby show for a little bit.
Guest:They told him he never met Cosby because they told Cosby he was a black writer.
Guest:So he just was like writing from home being like, hey, where is this Mark St.
Guest:Germain guy?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He met the son, the guy who plays the son, Malcolm Jamal Warner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, then he just wrote movies and plays from New Jersey.
Guest:He hated L.A.
Guest:What movies?
Guest:He wrote one of the drafts of the Nelson Mandela Walk to Freedom movie.
Guest:So he went to South Africa to meet that dude.
Guest:And he wrote this movie about a cheetah called Duma that was very well received.
Guest:And he actually just wrote the movie came out of the play he wrote, Freud's Last Session.
Guest:Oh, with Anthony Hopkins?
Guest:Yeah, a really good play.
Guest:That's based on his—a really good play, and that movie's based on his play.
Guest:Really?
Marc:That just came out?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's still around?
Guest:So he's still around.
Guest:Yeah, he's still working on stuff now.
Guest:He's doing something with, I think, The Innocence Project.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Over in—he's much more high-brow than me, Mark.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:But you grew up with that.
Guest:I grew up with a lot of books.
Marc:With a play, right?
Marc:A lot of plays, a lot of plays.
Marc:Did he ever teach?
Yeah.
Guest:He does, I think he did a little bit, but not until later on.
Guest:He has recently, but not like predominantly.
Guest:I think I was able to write a little bit easier because, you know, you have like fucking, you know, Sophocles and Euripides like right next to you.
Guest:Yeah, that you can just pull out and read Electra or something.
Guest:Did you read that stuff?
Guest:You read it?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I don't really anymore.
Guest:I've been bad about books this year.
Guest:I've been reading a lot about history, a lot of Nazi stuff, a lot of World War II stuff.
Guest:Yeah, you want to prepare.
Marc:Prepare.
Marc:But so that's a very specific childhood.
Marc:It was one that I didn't have, but I always aspired to.
Marc:So I gravitated more to, you know, people on bookstores, intellectual conversations, but was...
Marc:Did your dad have a circle of friends that were, like, the intelligentsia of— He had playwriting friends.
Guest:He also had, like, you know, probably pretty normal, you know, friends.
Marc:But, like, is he of, like, David Rabe's generation and those kind of guys?
Guest:I don't think he was—you know, I don't think it was—it wasn't—it didn't feel like I was, like, going downstairs and seeing F. Scott Fitzgerald and Hemingway, you know, hanging out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But he's definitely, you know, he's got a couple friends that are, like, he's really good friends with Dr. Ruth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, like, he's got a couple friends.
Guest:And then he's got a lot of, like, normal friends, too.
Guest:Like, you know, guys that are just musicians.
Guest:He's a social butterfly.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:He's a social butterfly.
Guest:Are you guys close?
Guest:Very close.
Marc:A lot.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:When you were growing up, I mean, is that what made you want to do that?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I mean, I think that, you know, I had a therapist who said this, and, you know, if I want to be brutally honest, you know, it's so funny.
Guest:Like, you know, I was obviously listening to his show a lot before I did it, and you're like, oh, what should I talk about?
Guest:And then you're like – you end up, like, looking at your whole fucking –
Guest:Well, it's like, oh, you're just making sense of your life.
Guest:It becomes just like you're this detective and it's this, you know, cold case, which is your identity.
Guest:Anybody who does this show, I'm sure, has that.
Guest:Unless they come in and they do that like, oh, this is the type of person I want to.
Marc:Well, I want to present to the world.
Marc:Usually what happens with certain people is that they know of the show, but they never listen to the show.
Marc:So they come in and they act like they listen to the show.
Marc:But I can tell when they do or they don't because they've only mentioned the last two episodes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or one episode that like everyone.
Marc:Yeah, the Obama episode.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:That kind of thing.
Marc:Yeah, but I like the detective analogy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was really into that for a while.
Guest:I was trying to do like a true crime.
Marc:A true crime for yourself?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I quit comedy for like two years or a year.
Guest:And I was just I was like, I wanted to do like a true crime podcast about cold cases.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would call these.
Guest:It's just really hard to do that, by the way.
Guest:It's a lot harder than comedy because I would call like the precincts and be like, hey, can I get some info on this murder?
Guest:And they're like, no.
Marc:No.
Guest:So it's a lot of work.
Guest:My hat's off to everyone who does that kind of work.
Marc:Well, that was what Patton's wife did that before she passed.
Marc:She did a big one, right?
Marc:Didn't she help catch the Golden State Killer?
Guest:Yeah, I'm into all that kind of book.
Marc:What do you make of that in terms of who you are?
Marc:Why is that?
Marc:Because I don't have any interest in that at all.
Guest:Well, I don't.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I always like if you get in a fight with somebody and then all of a sudden you read a bunch of stuff on Dahmer and you're like, well, I'm not that fucked up.
Marc:I'm not that bad.
Guest:So maybe that's the human reason for it.
Marc:Just for building rationalizations.
Guest:Building rationalizations.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But as far as like why I got into like theater, I guess, and then comedy eventually, you know, it was just one of those things where I had a I was I had a talent or predilection towards it.
Guest:Well, what did the therapist say?
Guest:Well, he's basically like whatever you do.
Guest:It's like he was he talked about narcissism.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was kind of.
Guest:Like in a broader way, like we're all a little narcissistic.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Like, so if you look like whatever the world rewards you with.
Guest:So like when I did my first play, my dad and mom were like, OK, you're funny at that.
Guest:You're good at that.
Guest:You know, so you're like, OK, I'm good at that.
Guest:So the world's validating me on that.
Guest:So let me just because I don't know who the fuck I am.
Guest:So let me run towards the thing that the world is saying, hey, you're good at this.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, it's kind of funny because I didn't like sports and now I love sports.
Guest:Like, there's certain things that like, you know, I hated, you know, I go, oh, I'm just going to do theater because I wasn't good as a wrestler.
Guest:But yeah, so you run towards whatever society rewards you as, I think, when you don't have.
Marc:Or even your peer group or even.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Or when you don't have like a especially because, you know, when you have an identity crisis, I think it's like, oh, they like me in this.
Guest:OK, I'm going to go.
Guest:I'm going to go towards.
Marc:That's interesting because, like, I don't know if I ever framed it like that.
Marc:And I don't know that I was necessarily being rewarded.
Marc:I think I was defying people to reward me.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, well, I didn't do stand-up until, like, I was, like, I did, like, actually, like, once or twice in high school, but I was mostly, you know, doing plays.
Guest:I was acting.
Guest:You were writing plays?
Guest:I did eventually.
Guest:When I was 18, I wrote this play.
Guest:How does that hold up?
Guest:You know, it's not.
Guest:I wrote a lot worse ones in college from that one, but that was based on Sophocles' Philoctetes, like, based in, like, 70s Jersey or something like that.
Marc:What is Sophocles?
Guest:It's one of the Trojan War guys that was, like, left behind on an island.
Guest:That's the play?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But, you know, like, I was very high braille, you know.
Guest:So anyway, I did that and it won the Stephen Sondheim, like, festival or something like that.
Guest:So I did that for a little bit, but then I went to college and I just drank myself.
Guest:Where'd you go?
Guest:University of Evansville.
Guest:It's where Rami Malek and like a bunch of actors went.
Guest:My dad was like, I think like a pretty big, you know, they did a lot of his plays.
Guest:And I think, you know, up until stand up, I really wanted to be my dad, like a playwright.
Guest:And not as much now.
Marc:For his approval, you think, or just because you respected?
Guest:I think I respected him.
Guest:He always approved.
Guest:He was always supportive.
Guest:So it's never like, you know.
Guest:Um, my mom was a little bit different.
Guest:What'd she do?
Guest:She was a special needs teacher.
Guest:Um, and then, you know, the last couple of years she wasn't really doing anything, but, um, sorry, no, it's okay.
Guest:She passed away a year and some change, change ago.
Guest:Were they very troubled person?
Guest:No, she, they, uh, divorced and, um, she, um,
Guest:I was in my 30s.
Guest:I was actually writing for Not Safe with Nikki Glaser, who was a friend of mine, a really funny comic, obviously.
Guest:But yeah, they separated around then, and my mom kind of had a psychotic break.
Guest:From what?
Guest:I think her job ended, and my dad, they got divorced, and that was too much, and then the drinking kind of took off.
Guest:My grandpa died of...
Guest:And my, you know, it definitely, it hurt my mom later on.
Guest:Eventually we basically, you know, had to put her in a facility, but like she was, yeah, she just wasn't, you know, she gave up.
Guest:I don't know what to, you know, like she just completely gave up.
Marc:Yeah, I'm concerned about that with my mom because it's a mental thing.
Marc:It's not like she's losing her mind or that she's physically that compromised.
Marc:But there's a certain type of personality, I think, and I'm sure it happens all the time, where life just takes its toll and you don't necessarily want to die, but you don't want to live either.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, she would say that to me, essentially.
Guest:She was locked in these memories from...
Guest:Sorry, it's, like, hard to bring up.
Guest:She was locked in a lot of memories from when she was – when we were kids, I guess.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was – yeah, it was bad.
Guest:I mean, it was, like, you know, before we got into the facility, she was, like – you know, she was a woman who had her master's, and, you know, she wasn't the easiest woman all the time.
Guest:She was smart and had her master's, and then she's, you know –
Guest:fucking you know like the whole house is black mold in it and she's like you know yeah wetting every couch and shit yeah that's what's going on this is a fucking nightmare lost her will yeah you just kind of give up which i i understand that because i think i have that in me you know yeah was she actively drinking or no yeah oh yeah yeah for sure i probably put i put her in rehab once and then
Guest:I helped put her in rehab.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, you know, she's drinking a week later.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It was not like it was kind of a hard.
Guest:I'm still dealing with it now.
Guest:Hard couple of years.
Marc:But yeah, it's like it's very difficult.
Marc:Both my parents are still alive and struggling with their own struggles.
Marc:But like and my parents got divorced when I was in my 30s, too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a different like it's a different thing when you're in your 30s.
Guest:You don't get the sympathy.
Guest:But but then when I tell, you know, like one of my best friends in comedy is my writing partner, Dan Soder.
Guest:He was on the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I love that guy.
Marc:Terrific comic.
Marc:Great guy.
Guest:Great guy.
Guest:He's got a dead dad.
Guest:And when I tell the whole story, he's like, you know, he's like, most people talk about dead parents and I don't feel bad.
Guest:He's like, you?
Guest:You're in my boat, buddy.
Guest:He's like, so I'm fine when you do it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:By the way, he's been like a lifesaver for me.
Marc:Yeah, he's a pretty solid guy.
Guest:Yeah, I've been writing with him.
Guest:He's worked it out.
Yeah.
Guest:For sure, for sure.
Guest:I mean, he's one of those guys, too.
Guest:He hasn't drank in 10 years.
Guest:I mean, all my friends, you too, man.
Guest:You guys figured it out.
Guest:I'm still an open miker in recovery.
Marc:Yeah, but that's part of the game.
Marc:I mean, that's part of the disease, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So when did you start realizing that you had that?
Marc:Pretty early on.
Marc:Like when you went to college?
Guest:High school.
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh, high school.
Guest:Like there would be these disasters, you know, like, you know, I would be doing okay for a while and then I would be the lead of school play and then I would drink half a bottle of Bacardi and then pass out and back of the school.
Guest:Yeah, I did that too, yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And then, you know, I'd be doing okay, and then I would, like, fucking buy cocaine or something like that.
Guest:And then in college, I was kind of like, you know, I was a disaster drinking too much and, you know, probably not very fun to be around.
Guest:And I would just, you know, the problem is that it works for the first hour, and then, you know, it ends up... A year later.
Guest:If I could just, if I could just, I always said, if I could just stop at 8, I would still be...
Marc:drinking but that's not my story unfortunately i uh yeah i mean i it's weird to have that background in it because i talk about that and i don't always frame it as i should but i i was definitely a chore i wasn't a fun drunk in high school i would yeah i would drink hard liquor i would get vomit i'd be you know my friends would be like fuck
Guest:Why can't you just have like a couple and chill, bro?
Marc:Or they throw me on a lawn next door because I got thrown on plenty of lawns.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They wanted to go to the party.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They air you out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then they one time I vomited all over myself in the bleachers of a football game.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:So it was like I was the center.
Marc:It was like a fucking disaster.
Marc:But, like, I still don't always frame that as alcoholism.
Marc:I just frame it as high school.
Marc:But, I mean, in retrospect.
Guest:Well, it depends if you get out of it.
Guest:Then...
Guest:You know, if that was a phase.
Guest:But if that phase keeps happening all the time, it's probably something worse.
Marc:Well, it kind of percolated along and then cocaine.
Marc:You were like a cocaine and booze guy.
Marc:That's me too.
Guest:Yeah, ABC.
Guest:Yeah, what's that?
Guest:Alcohol becomes cocaine, you know?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But, I mean, I smoked weed all the time too, but, you know.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, that was the thing the last time is that I was just smoking, like the last couple years, I was just smoking weed constantly.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, I'm California sober because I got off that because I was addicted to benzos.
Guest:So I was like, let me move to weed.
Guest:We know, though.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Guest:It's I mean, it's just I mean, it's it's not what we it's not what I smoked in high school.
Marc:I really thought you were like, you know, there's a couple of ways you could go with that.
Marc:I thought you'd be like, it's it's amazing.
Guest:Well, I will say this.
Guest:I just got out of rehab in December.
Guest:And anybody who tells me, oh, the 70s, we parted hardy, or my generation, they parted hardy.
Guest:The kids now that are on fentanyl, and it's like they're super shredder.
Guest:They're almost like mutants as far as the amount of drugs they can take.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:seen it before yeah like we cannot hang like if you went if you went back to try to like hang with these kids they could like first off they like you know they're they're just comatose they don't fuck yeah you know like they just like it's just like kind of like zombie and yeah like this kid's like you know you couldn't and i was like yeah you're right i can't like you're on medical end of life drugs yeah like casually yeah and very dangerous very dangerous shout out well bridge recovery yeah long island you doing this in uh tip you got me on i'm in austin yeah oh
Guest:Oh, fuck.
Guest:Well, I always hated Skull, and I was like, oh, I don't throw up with this one.
Guest:So I do that while I vape now.
Guest:Yeah, I'm sorry, buddy.
Guest:No, it's okay.
Guest:I mean, that one's pretty good to get me into compared to... I did that.
Marc:See, this is the fucked up thing about addicts.
Marc:For me, with nicotine, I can never get off it totally.
Marc:I had it for a few years, but...
Marc:When I first got the Zins, which is non-tobacco and it's nicotine, I literally said, this is what the fucked up thing about being an addict is.
Marc:And it's so telling.
Marc:I got the Zins and I put one in my mouth and I'm like, oh, this is great.
Marc:I'll just do like three or four of these a day because it's given me enough.
Marc:And now like, dude, I'm stockpiling them.
Marc:When I go to other states where you can get the flavored ones, I just went to New Mexico and now I've got a bunch of those.
Guest:Which flavor do you like the best?
Marc:This menthol.
Marc:Yeah, menthol's great.
Marc:I used to love the JuulPod menthols, yeah.
Marc:I never did the vapes.
Marc:But the thing is, about the attic thing, is you start seeing the used zins like they're on the floor.
Marc:I know, yeah.
Marc:And then I'm like, oh, this is like fucking anything.
Guest:But I think that, I mean, maybe I'm just saying this.
Guest:I think that the zin, I don't want to turn this into a fucking zin commercial, especially because they're not paying me.
Guest:But zins, it seems like the least destructive way you can ingest nicotine.
Guest:Besides probably the patch is better.
Marc:Yeah, but you don't get the fun, you know, like the taste, the flavor.
Guest:A little spring in your step.
Marc:Yeah, you just get the whatever.
Marc:It's spring in your step and then nausea.
Marc:It's the same thing.
Marc:If I could just stay with that first hour.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:Gum's okay.
Marc:The gum's okay.
Guest:The lozenges are- The gum makes me burp, so I can't do the gum.
Marc:And the lozenges, they fuck my stomach up.
Marc:But okay, so a couple addicts talking about the one thing they can still do.
Marc:So how many rehabs have you been in?
Guest:I've been to two inpatients, three outpatients, and a detox.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Good for you.
Guest:I'm six months now.
Guest:I'm very, you know, working on a show with Dan Soder for Peacock.
Guest:That's going great.
Guest:You know, maybe starting a new podcast with my buddy Sean Donnelly.
Guest:I'm trying to, like, pitch this to a great guy, funny guy.
Guest:I'm trying to pitch this into things are positive now.
Guest:No, no, no, I can feel that.
Marc:I mean, I think I took you to a meeting once way back in the day, or we went to one.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you kind of had this...
Marc:I was trying to figure out what the look is.
Marc:But, you know, I think it has something to do with that sense of, you know, kind of a weird, you know, who am I thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That identity search.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:You know, and there's some part, like, I don't know why.
Marc:I try to figure out in terms of my cold case and who I am.
Marc:Why am I missing that piece?
Yeah.
Marc:And I and I, you know, the piece like, who am I?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like the piece that's sort of like, well, you're grounded in you.
Marc:I mean, it's taken me years to accept it.
Guest:You have you.
Guest:But you've had that in different forms.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I still feel like, you know, there's an essential self that that's a bit, you know, a bit nebulous.
Marc:And you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it bothers me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't see that.
Marc:Good.
Guest:I mean, I just don't.
Marc:Well, no, I think I've reeled it in and I've landed in it.
Marc:But it was a chore where I think kids who have parents who aren't boundaryless or fucked up, they sort of like, they kind of get that.
Marc:They were able to develop a sense of self early on.
Marc:But like you were talking about, if it's narcissistically driven, then that's a sort of ego-centered avoidance of authentic self.
Guest:What is an authentic self?
Guest:I know.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I mean, that's my only I don't know.
Guest:Sometimes you have to be careful with the story you tell yourself about yourself.
Guest:And I do this a lot where then you don't want to because it's like I always kind of see myself as like, oh, I'm this, you know, like, you know, been down so long.
Guest:It feels like up to me.
Guest:Sure, man.
Guest:But it's like I got a beautiful wife who's amazing.
Guest:I got great dogs.
Guest:I'm working with some of the funniest fucking people.
Guest:I've had a decent – I haven't had your fucking career, but I've done fine.
Guest:I'm not an open miker.
Guest:But it's the story that you tell yourself.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And you're like, well, I'm not that either.
Guest:I'm not the shit, but I'm not like –
Guest:shit you know right yeah there's that constant compare and despair business going on yeah but you've gotta you know but you have to be careful the stories you tell yourself because all of a sudden you know all of a sudden you know as I'm a huge wrestling fan all of a sudden you're living the gimmick you know and then shit yeah I'm not I I am you know I am this thing that I create yeah yeah
Marc:No, that's right.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:You know, I think like I did a bit recently where I'm like, you know, there's all this talk of authenticity and, you know, authentic self.
Marc:And like, I mean, what does that even mean?
Marc:I mean, you know, you are who you are, what gets you through and engages with the world.
Marc:Like I said, if I was really my authentic self, I don't think I'd do anything.
Marc:I wouldn't want to do anything.
Guest:No, that would be that you'd be under a tree.
Marc:Right, which is the Buddhist idea.
Marc:There's a spiritual component to it.
Guest:Giving up your princehood to just be in the moment.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know many people who've done that, by the way.
Marc:Not in the city, anyways.
Marc:Not in the city, no.
Marc:Okay, so you're in college, and you're not doing stand-up, but you're writing?
Guest:No, I didn't do stand-up until after college, because it was just one of those things where I could write something and then get on stage and have immediate either a...
Guest:approval or rejection from it, and that was attractive to me.
Guest:It's so funny, like, you talk about comedy, and you're like, are you talking about comedy?
Guest:Because this feels, like, so medical.
Guest:But, yeah, so I ended up, you know, and then, you know, I was with the crew of, like,
Guest:You know, Mike Lawrence and Martin Norman and Sam Murill and Sean Donnelly and Mike Drucker and Annie Letterman.
Guest:We were doing like 16 mics a week.
Guest:Dan Soder was probably part of that, although I always considered him doing kind of better than that.
Guest:But like, yeah, and then, you know, that was actually probably the most fun year of my life was the second or third year when you're just doing open mics and you're like, oh, you got on this little show.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:He was on the show with you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and, you know, nobody's like, everybody's like, you know, the victories are like, it hurts a little, but it's also like, God, we're part of this whole fucking thing together.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Going to the diner afterwards.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's probably similar to what you talked about with like Attell and Silverman and stuff like that.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:crew which was that was the crew we looked up to yeah talk about you guys like holy shit you know um so that was kind of that was kind of that was the best part of it that's the best part of it yeah yeah and that's and i say now if somebody's like getting a comedy the best part is writing a new joke and it working everything else is you know it kind of is it still is forever you know i know because you're not sick of it yeah yeah and then it does go away you know the you know like there are jokes that were perfectly fine that i'm like i'm done with that one
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like it served me for a couple months.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But, you know, now I'm tired of it because I don't like once I start to acknowledge structure, I start to get kind of bored unless I'm like keep building it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like if something's a little thing, like I forget them.
Marc:Is that the mental one?
Marc:Yeah, but I don't know if I have any more.
Marc:You could smell it on me?
Guest:Like I was in jail?
Guest:I have one.
Guest:I have a thing here.
Guest:I'm doing two.
Marc:It's a great tone, though.
Marc:Is that the...
Guest:What's up?
Guest:We were having a really nice conversation, then all of a sudden it became just two animals fighting over a fucking piece of meat.
Guest:I pulled this in and you're like, hey.
Marc:What's up?
Guest:What's going on with that, bro?
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:Like, I have to stop myself every time somebody's like... Like, they're like, oh, my mom has cancer, my dad has cancer, or something like that.
Guest:And you're like, oh, shit.
Guest:Where's the... Yeah, I'll be like, oxys?
Marc:Wait, what are you doing with the leftover...
Guest:I'm going to help.
Guest:I'm helping you.
Guest:I'm helping you.
Marc:Should I help you clean out her bathroom?
Guest:Never offered ever.
Guest:You're like, motherfucker, you didn't offer to pick me up from the airport.
Guest:And you're trying to like take my mom's pain mitts.
Marc:Okay, so that happened after college?
Marc:You graduated?
Guest:I did graduate, yeah.
Guest:And then, yeah, I worked in a movie theater, and then I was three years, I was a guard at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:I worked overnights the last year.
Guest:But you were overnights?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, which is crazy.
Marc:Holy fuck.
Guest:Were you high?
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:No, I was sober during that time.
Guest:I was contributing writing to The Onion.
Guest:So you get like $10 of a joke.
Marc:Which version of The Onion?
Marc:Who's in charge?
Guest:It's like the news network and the sports network.
Guest:I don't even know.
Guest:I could probably know.
Guest:If you name somebody, I'll be like, oh, yeah, that's the person I send jokes.
Marc:What was it like being in the Met in the middle of the night?
Guest:Crazy, but good.
Guest:Overnights is better during the day than during the day.
Guest:But you start the problem six months in, you're not getting vitamin D. And then you start like things start happening in your body.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And my schedule was insane where I'd be, you know, from 1220 to 820, I would be overnight and I would write when I can.
Guest:But what room were you in?
Guest:You were all over.
Guest:You get put all over.
Marc:You just walk around the Met?
Guest:Yeah, you just kind of go in the middle of the night, and the American wing is supposedly haunted, so you're walking through that.
Marc:I can't believe that.
Marc:That must have been crazy.
Guest:It is crazy, but it's so funny.
Guest:Because during the day, you kind of get put in a gallery.
Guest:I was a trouble guard, so they put me in the Greek and Roman section.
Guest:But you're in the Impressionist wing, and you're like, oh my God, I'm around these Kandinsky's and all this.
Guest:And then two days later, you're like, fuck, I'm back in the Kandinsky room.
Guest:Everything becomes the same again.
Guest:But yeah, I was there, and...
Guest:That's pretty wild, man.
Guest:I actually ended up writing this web series for Comedy Central about it, which I don't think their audience loved, but it was really fun to work on with Dan Powell and Janine Garofalo.
Guest:It's called Insecurity, but I don't think I'd figured.
Guest:I thought it was funny, but it was too dark for them.
Guest:Their YouTube, they're like, this isn't fucking Brickleberry.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:It was like that.
Guest:One of many little fucking bumps in the road of my comedy career.
Marc:Yeah, but it seemed like at some point pretty early on, you knew that you wanted to write.
Marc:I mean, comedy specifically.
Marc:Because for me, as a stand-up, I never wanted to write for anybody.
Marc:Like, I never saw that as a job option.
Marc:Like, because I guess I was more addicted to the compulsive immediacy of doing stand-up, and I still kind of am.
Marc:And even this, the podcast, like, I don't know what's going to happen here.
Guest:Yeah, you're going to get—you look down, my cock's out.
Marc:What?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think that—I still think that, like I said before, telling a new joke and having it work is fucking—
Marc:But at some point you realized that writing was a job that, you know, you could earn money at.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, with stand-up, you never know.
Guest:Yeah, and I mean, I was making, and I think that's kind of like, now I'm much more focused on stand-up, but, like, I think that, you know, when you make money as a writer, you're kind of like, well, I'm not going to fucking take this, I'm going to get, like, this much, I'm going to get, like, $1,500 for this weekend when I could be making, you know, $4,000 a week as a writer.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, look, I tell people all the time that, like, I used to, but I don't know how the business works anymore.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, like, you know, if you start as a stand-up, most of the guys I started with, if they were smart, you know, they didn't put all their fucking, you know, eggs into that basket.
Marc:They became writers, showrunners, other things in show business.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because if you can manage comedy, that's a hell of a skill set.
Marc:It is.
Marc:Used to be.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I'm still figuring it out.
Guest:You know, I just—I feel like—
Guest:You know, it's that, like, jack-of-all-trades, master of none, you know?
Guest:But it's not.
Marc:It's, like, pretty specific.
Marc:You're a comedy writer on both levels, whether it's stand-up or writing.
Guest:But I know, but there's, like, you know, like, you write for multicam, a single-cam variety show.
Guest:It's all different sets of skills.
Marc:Have you done all of those?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:No, maybe not single-cam.
Marc:What was the first writing gig?
Guest:God, I wrote for Silent Library on MTV, which was, like, a prank show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I did two weeks on that.
Guest:um which is that's not around anymore it was a guy the guy who was host was like a parkour guy it was like that was like hell what the parkour is you know the guys who like jump around and like do videos oh yeah like that um and then i wrote for on fuse mark hoppus's show it was like amy schumer's first show yeah um and then uh yeah and then i would sell stuff and then get staffed and sell stuff and
Guest:You know, I actually haven't been, like, it's been a couple years.
Guest:The last thing I was on was Bill Burr's Immoral Company.
Guest:My buddy Tyler Falbo is great.
Guest:Created it.
Guest:It's, like, this really dark sketch show.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Were you in one?
Guest:I'm not sure if you were in one.
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:But Bill Burr was hosting, and it ended up being on Roku.
Guest:It was on Quibi for a little bit, if you remember that.
Guest:We all, like, sold a show to Quibi in that year before it disintegrated.
Guest:So, yeah, everything is, like, a different, you know, skill set.
Guest:And there's, like...
Guest:You know, there's like masters in each of them.
Marc:Have you done network?
Guest:I'm not that.
Guest:You're not a network.
Guest:I wrote on Superior Donuts.
Guest:Jermaine Fowler.
Guest:It's based on the Tracy Let's Play.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:I auditioned for that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think you were, they went older because they went Judd.
Guest:They went Judd for that.
Guest:Yeah, you would have played like young Judd.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was wild.
Guest:And also because my dad had worked with Judd, so it was kind of fun to like— Everyone's worked with Judd.
Marc:Yeah, he's been around forever, man.
Marc:He played my dad.
Guest:He's been around forever, you know?
Marc:Yeah, no, it was kind of interesting.
Marc:Great guy.
Guest:He is a great guy.
Marc:He's like in his 90s, I think.
Guest:And you talk about somebody who's like, yeah, he's in his 90s, and that guy's been nominated for an Oscar, Ordinary People, and he still treats it like, hey, this is a job that I have to do today.
Marc:Well, the ones that last do that.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:When I was casting Marin, I was just surprised at how it worked.
Marc:There's all these old actors around, and they just want to work, and some of them, they'll go anywhere.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Basically, the decision-making is, how long do I have to be away?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, can I get my basic fee, and will they fly me first class?
Marc:And Judd usually likes a golf course close by.
Guest:Yeah, is there a good restaurant or is there a good golf course?
Marc:I'm learning that about acting because I'm doing more acting.
Guest:You're very good.
Guest:Well, thank you.
Guest:You're very good.
Guest:I thought, you know, excellent glow.
Guest:My wife worked on glow.
Guest:She was an associate casting director.
Guest:She worked under Jen Houston.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Who's really good.
Guest:But, yeah, you were excellent on that.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Guest:And that's a whole different...
Guest:It's a skill.
Guest:It's a whole different skill.
Marc:It's when the more I talk to actors, you know, because a lot of them just accept that they're going to do bad shit because like the decision making is I'm a working actor.
Marc:So it really is like, where's the shooting?
Marc:How long am I away?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, what what's the money?
Marc:This is good enough material.
Marc:I'll go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:If I don't have to be, you know, away for so long.
Guest:Yeah, it's, you know, I think that, like, the skills that make you a great actor are the skills that don't make you a great comic.
Marc:No, yeah, you can't.
Guest:Like, actor, you just lose yourself.
Guest:And comedy, you're in control.
Guest:Comedy, you're a quarterback.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I go through this pocket.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you do that acting, you're fucked.
Guest:Because I've seen, I'll tell you who afterwards, but I've seen you're a very good standup comic actor because I don't see you thinking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've seen like really great standups when they act.
Guest:Sometimes I'll see them think about how they're going to say the line before they say the line.
Marc:Or they're like they're insulated and they're controlling an outcome that's not in the present.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because they have trauma from doing bad road kicks.
Marc:Yeah, or it is a one-sided experience.
Marc:I knew when I did Marin that there was going to be a learning curve, and it was going to take me a while to figure out how to be comfortable on a set, on camera.
Marc:I knew that I wasn't going to be good at first, and it was okay.
Guest:Did you find – were you more –
Guest:comfortable in roles that weren't yourself.
Marc:I'm not like, like I did my craft or whatever it may be.
Marc:It's like, I am who I am.
Marc:What do I have to turn on or off?
Marc:What do I have to amplify or negate from the being I am?
Marc:So I'm not doing some transformative acting work.
Marc:I'm not going to, you know, I did do an accent in two Leslie, but no, I, I,
Marc:I'm not losing myself entirely in anything other than the present.
Marc:I seem to be able to do that.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:You know, in that moment.
Marc:But, like, I'm still trying to – I took this new job.
Marc:There are things I want to try to do as an actor to see if it works, if I'm more satisfying.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, everyone's – a lot of it's just bullshit.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we're song and dance, man.
Marc:But acting, too, it's like everyone's got a thing they do, but there is no one way to do it.
Marc:And I think most of it is either you have it or you don't.
Marc:Either you're a natural on the screen or you're not.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've been in a bunch of pilots, and sometimes I'll kill it at the table read, and then I'll do it, and I'll be like, oh, I fucking lost the rhythm of this house.
Guest:Then it's over because you're, like, trying to pull through a pattern.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, it's daunting, man.
Guest:It's all daunting.
Guest:I guess it's not.
Guest:I mean, compared to being a fucking steel worker.
Marc:No, I mean, like, there's a lot you can do with it, and it's just a matter of, like, embracing.
Marc:Like, I'm just learning more and more, and I'm paying more attention to, like, you know, what acting is.
Marc:Like, I just was talking to Aubrey Plaza.
Marc:I mean, you know, you—
Marc:The insecurity will kill you.
Marc:And at some point, like you said, in terms of identity, you've got to have a certain comfort in yourself.
Marc:Like, well, they hired me, so they must want me.
Marc:So I'm going to have to deliver some me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm still figuring that out.
Guest:But yes, for sure.
Marc:So after Superior Donuts, you did other shit?
Guest:I wrote on Michelle Wolf Show.
Marc:oh yeah how's she she's great i can't get her to be on this show still friends uh still really still good friends now were these in these jobs were there jobs where people were like dude you gotta know me as a stand-up and but do they but do you get the job and is there ever a point where they're like you gotta slow down
Guest:I usually am not using, and then all of a sudden I'll have, which I want to thank.
Guest:I did at Superior Donuts.
Guest:I kind of had one where I went off, and Bob Daly, who's my boss there, is this kindest guy in the world.
Guest:He was very...
Guest:understanding of that.
Guest:Or something would happen, like, I think at the end of one job, when I got addicted to benzos, I'm like, fuck, these jokes aren't as good anymore.
Guest:Because it's all, like, kind of room temperature, so I had to get off those, because I was having panic attacks, so I needed something to stop the panic attacks that wasn't drinking.
Guest:It's like, you know, you put your finger on the dam, a hold of dam, and then, you know, you're... But, yeah, so, no, I didn't have that conversation.
Guest:I haven't really had that...
Guest:But I have – I mean, I've embarrassed myself for sure as a stand-up.
Guest:Like, I've totally – like, you know, like – I mean, for God's sakes, I, like, asked Sinbad to buy me crack at a fucking comedy festival.
Guest:You know, I've done like – Because you're a shit-faced.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, like, I've done plenty of – yeah, fuck.
Guest:Yes, of course.
Guest:I did my yoga, and then I went over to Sinbad, and I asked if I could score.
Guest:Why Sinbad?
Guest:He was there.
Guest:It was in Traverse City, Michigan.
Guest:I know that festival.
Guest:I'm not going to be invited back, by the way.
Marc:but I mean but like I wouldn't think sober now by the way sober now yeah I wouldn't think I need crack worse than bad why the problem is I was so drunk I needed to wake up I used to do that fucking I used to go on the road when I was still using and I'd get drunk at a bar and there'd be no one in there but one guy and I'd hear him like sniffle and I'd be like that's the guy that's the guy or you go to the you go to the yeah you go to the strip club and you're not even there for the girls you're just like there because you know she's dating a coke dealer you know oh boy
Marc:And that was the other thing I learned about when I got sober is that when you use outside of the drugs or the physical thing, you put yourself in positions where it's exponentially much higher possibility of you getting killed or in trouble.
Marc:Oh, my God, dude.
Guest:I look at, like, you know, before I got, like, I had a nice, like, I kind of had in between, you know, I had a couple shows at Fox that was in development, and then those stopped.
Guest:I'm like, oh, fuck, I'm not going to be a thing, you know, like, you know, because when things, you know this, like, when you first, like, get Montreal, like, you're going to be the next disease or whatever.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So, like, a couple months, I'm not, like – you know, I ended up – I don't know how, but, like, getting – downtown L.A., I'm getting my ass kicked by a father and son, like, in front of a 7-Eleven.
Guest:And then I was just at a Korean barbecue place, and that waiter just stopped by and, like, fought him off for me.
Guest:But I was, like, on the floor capacity.
Guest:And then I just started writing on Nicky's show, like, three or four months after that.
Guest:So, that would – again, it would be, like, go good, good, good, good disaster, and then good, good, good.
Guest:And I think a lot of it is I make –
Guest:You know, my career or a relationship or something, a higher power.
Guest:I'm not really thinking about like, you know, me and just try to put me healthy front.
Guest:And I also like getting fucked up, you know, like that's another problem.
Marc:Yeah, but it seems like it.
Marc:But that's one of those examples is like, you don't fuck around.
Marc:You're all in.
Guest:No, that was, I mean, all in, but like, I mean, I got pissed.
Guest:I mean, all in disaster.
Marc:Yeah, I just mean there's no, there's a very small window of fun, it seems.
Guest:Very small window of fun.
Guest:And I do know, I'm not, I do know a couple people who I smell.
Guest:I'm like, who'd be like, hey, you're a friend of Bill.
Guest:And I'm like, you're doing this to fucking Network, aren't you?
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, I've met a couple where I'm like.
Guest:Still?
Guest:I mean, that feels like.
Guest:Not lately.
Guest:But, yeah, I've met a couple that I'm like, you're not.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I remember.
Guest:I saw you drink.
Guest:That wasn't that bad.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was like.
Guest:I remember Annie was.
Guest:Annie Letterman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Funny comic.
Guest:But when she had seen you after I opened, you're like, hey, he's a nice guy.
Guest:He's got it bad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what I said?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I was like, yeah, that's kind of, you know, for whatever it is, it's my family, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I mean, I do.
Marc:I do remember saying that when I first started hearing about you.
Marc:Not a bad way.
Guest:It was a nice way.
Guest:But, you know.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:I mean, that's the reality.
Marc:I mean, some people, it's not a genetic thing.
Marc:And some people, you know, it's just a compulsive thing.
Marc:But, you know, you do know the difference between, you know, people who are like, that guy's drinking a half gallon.
Guest:yeah you know you know what i mean yeah yeah it's i would revere all these people and like eugene o'neill and stuff like that all these people that were just fucking you know like like why would you revere guys like that well because they they made amazing art and that's the one thing that everybody says about you that no matter what you work your ass off and you get the work done and you write the shit out of stuff well you know some some you know dude it's hit or miss it's all hit or miss
Marc:But you do the work.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Marc:And that's, yeah, see, that's the difference between you and just, you know, the guy in the street who has the, who's got it bad.
Marc:Is that somehow or another, not unlike O'Neill, you know, you balance your insane disease with productivity.
Marc:And that's not nothing.
Guest:It's not nothing.
Guest:You know, I've been able to...
Guest:pull myself up and get... Yeah, I can't write anything.
Marc:I don't even like to write.
Marc:But the idea of sitting in front of a computer... Well, you wrote on Marin.
Marc:I did, but I didn't like it.
Marc:Anytime I had to do a script, I'm like, oh, my God.
Guest:I'm writing a show with Dan Soder now with actually Stone Cold Steve Austin as the star.
Guest:What's the angle?
Guest:It's about... It's a cartoon.
Guest:It's Stone Cold, like, retires from wrestling and starts becoming a lawyer for a non-profit historic black law firm.
Guest:And it's, like, funny and absurd.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're like on the third draft at Peacock and we're hoping, you know, fingers crossed.
Guest:It's a trip.
Guest:It's like a – it's like an action cartoon.
Guest:But it's – anyway, the point that – I don't know what the fuck I was saying.
Guest:But that's been fun because it's my own thing.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You like to write your own thing.
Guest:Yeah, but like, you know, sometimes when you're on staff, it can get tough.
Guest:It can get very tough.
Marc:Yeah, I just, I hated sitting in a writer's room with just no one saying anything.
Marc:You're just all stuck.
Guest:Yeah, I don't like to, I mean, nobody likes to work.
Marc:On an act break.
Guest:I don't like to work.
Guest:I still work.
Guest:I mean, I've clearly worked, but like, you don't like it, you know, just kind of want to.
Marc:Yeah, it's not as satisfying as just getting up on stage and whatever happens, happens.
Marc:That's fun.
Guest:Or it's not satisfying as fucking.
Guest:getting blotto, dude, and looking out on a lake.
Marc:Let's not get too excited about that.
Guest:I'm not, but I'm saying that's why I come back.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Because I see that's where it comes back.
Guest:I had a sponsor who said this, and he said the closest that I've ever come to
Guest:is that five minutes after i'm i'm fucked up yeah and that's you know what i and i think that that's the goal of my life is trying to find but i have i have that now i have a great how'd you meet your wife and how'd that happen how'd she take on this project oh my god you're right she's she's the fucking best yeah um she's been my lifesaver she's not drinking now either because she's like you're not gonna have an excuse you know to like
Guest:To do anything, she's like, I'm fine.
Guest:Basically, she was a mutual friend.
Guest:I always thought she was hot, and she was a mutual friend.
Guest:And I'm like, hey, is she single?
Guest:And she's like, she is, but she just got out of a bad relationship.
Guest:And I'm like, ooh, that's where I come in.
Guest:You know, and I snuck into the TF because, you know, you always want to go in after a bet.
Guest:You don't want to go in and like, oh, yeah, she was dating a doctor without borders.
Guest:I'm not going to fucking.
Guest:I'm not even going to try.
Guest:And then we just started dating for a little bit.
Guest:Then we were just friends.
Guest:And then we were like, fuck it.
Guest:Let me let's make this work.
Guest:Let's make it long distance.
Guest:And that week I got.
Guest:I emailed Dan Powell, and he's like, oh, we're looking for people for this Michelle job, so I left Superior Donuts.
Guest:Actually, I left right at the end of the second season.
Guest:I jumped right to Michelle, which was a lot of work.
Guest:But I moved with her to New York, and nine months later— Oh, you were out here.
Marc:That's when you were out here.
Guest:I was out here, and then nine months later, we were engaged, and we got married in Massachusetts, and it'll be five years in October.
Guest:I've made a lot of bad decisions, but not that one.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:Yeah, lucked out there.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:And you're living in New York?
Guest:Really good at her job.
Guest:She's a casting director?
Guest:She's a casting director, and she's also a producer.
Guest:So now we're in New York.
Guest:We're in Queens.
Guest:What part?
Guest:Sunnyside.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We always like, we have, you know, like at some point we want a little place upstate to try to like, you know, I start talking about it like George from Jordan and Lenny and Mice and Men.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So is that a shotgun shell?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That's cool.
Marc:It was sent in a weird package from a fan.
Marc:That's terrifying.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love shooting a shotgun.
Guest:But, like, yeah, she's – yeah, so that's been good, man.
Guest:I've been really lucked out.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:You know?
Guest:She took on the project.
Guest:That's funny, yeah.
Marc:So you've just been laying into the stand-up.
Marc:Well, I wasn't going to say about animation.
Marc:It does seem like there's a lot of room out there.
Marc:To really take interesting risks and not have the confines of reality.
Marc:It's a creative opportunity.
Guest:I think people are just – you know, that and people are making them.
Guest:Like it's harder now to – you know, like it's harder to – I mean, you know, it's hard to –
Marc:make any you know everything costs so much money and then you have like yeah like burr had a great success with his animated and yeah that was a great show someone wanted to build a show around me like with cats and stuff but i just was like oh i don't like anytime like like i you know when i think about making television or pitching television some part of my brain it's going to be like that's going to be years i'm not going to be able to do anything right that's going to be a job i mean the thing is if you're doing vo that's mailbox money brother
Guest:If you're what?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Oh, no, no.
Marc:The bad guys.
Marc:We're doing the sequel.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, awesome.
Marc:I'm the snake.
Marc:Yeah, that's great.
Marc:And DreamWorks is eight minutes from there.
Guest:Yeah, you're in and out in a week.
Guest:It's the best.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:And people love it.
Guest:People love it, yeah.
Guest:And I think it's just, you know, like you said, it's where I said.
Guest:It's just hard to make, it's just, it's really hard to make stuff, especially when you have, like, these heads of these giant networks who are like, yes, you know, Secession's great, but I can make 20 HDTV shows and get, you know, three times the profit for that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I understand, you know what, I understand that, too, as somebody who, you know, like, likes money and wish he had more of it.
Guest:I understand, you know, like, I understand that desire.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So what, so what's the, what is the name of the special again?
Guest:uh dance fatty dance you know because that's i there's some people in show business who turn everything down and are like i'm i'm waiting for my right moment me i go down to the boardwalk baby and i uh i dance for you that's what i do get the get get my get my dance shoes on my shoe shine that's that's how i approach this fucking thing dude
Guest:It's time to dance.
Marc:It was great talking to you, and I'm glad you seem very well.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Appreciate it.
Marc:We'll make it clear again.
Marc:Dan is sober.
Marc:He looks healthy.
Marc:He's got nice color.
Marc:He's connected.
Marc:He's engaged.
Guest:I'm saying this is like I'm compulsively taking Kleenexes out and putting them in a little balls because I'm uncomfortable.
Guest:But thank you, Mark.
Guest:And you've always been very nice to me, so I appreciate it.
Guest:Well, thanks for talking.
Marc:there you go dan st germain you can watch his special dance fatty dance on youtube for his podcasts tour dates and more go to dan st germain.net that's dan st germain.net hang out for a minute
Marc:people the new ask mark anything is posted for full marin subscribers with my answers to your questions about the election brian eno mock tales writer's block moving to canada and more will you actually move to canada i moved to germany about six years ago after the first trump presidency and while it's not always easy i still think i made the right call especially with trump being the nominee again
Marc:Well, look, I've put in place a process that has not yielded anything yet to have permanent residency up here if I need it.
Marc:I don't really know what that means for me in terms of really making a move.
Marc:I do love America.
Marc:It is my country.
Marc:But I think the cultural ramifications outside of the political ramifications of authoritarianism, which is very possible, might be a lot to live with.
Marc:So I'd like to have the option.
Marc:I haven't made any decisions, but the reason I applied for it was to get some relief and know that somehow or another I've got a legit way out.
Marc:And it might be all rooted in fear, but I do think the cultural ramifications of authoritarianism and minority rule are already happening.
Marc:And but for me to move to Canada would mean, you know, this was me doing something at a retirement age where I want to be I want to have my own freedom and mind.
Marc:to exist in the world without a constant fear of my government or the people that inhabit my country.
Marc:So I don't know to what degree that would have to escalate for me to be like, I got to get the fuck out of here.
Marc:But that's really my concern, is to have the option on paper and...
Marc:And if I need to do it, do it as opposed to, you know, end up a refugee of one kind or another.
Marc:To get that episode plus all the bonus episodes we post twice a week and every episode of WTF ad free, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF plus.
Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST.
Guest:here's some guitar from uh from the vault so
Guest:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey La Fonda.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere.
Marc:cat angels everywhere did i say that already