Episode 1552 - Paul Scheer
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it it's nice to uh have you with us when did i talk to you last
Marc:On Thursday, goddamn, this schedule I'm on is like, I'm loopy.
Marc:I'm exhausted.
Marc:But a lot has happened.
Marc:There was a presidential debate or a shit show of some kind.
Marc:I'm sure something's on fire.
Marc:It's very hot somewhere.
Marc:There are people unhappy and yelling and dying and without homes.
Marc:The water is rising.
Marc:Yeah, all that's going on right now as we speak.
Marc:People are being massacred.
Marc:It's all happening.
Marc:I didn't watch the debate.
Marc:I didn't need to.
Marc:I knew what would happen.
Marc:I saw bits and pieces.
Marc:And I don't care who you are or what you think or what team you're on.
Marc:We're all in trouble.
Marc:We're all in trouble.
Marc:But what am I going to do?
Marc:What am I going to say to change anything?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It might make some of you feel better.
Marc:It might make some of you pissed off.
Marc:But ultimately, what does it do?
Marc:Am I just part of the...
Marc:The era of yammering.
Marc:Am I part of yammering culture?
Marc:Am I just going to argue and bitch and, you know, get angry and pretend like I know things?
Marc:Not today.
Marc:Not today.
Marc:Kind of loopy today.
Marc:I shot a night shoot on Friday.
Marc:I didn't get to bed till four in the morning.
Marc:I got up at 730 to get a plane on Saturday.
Marc:Did some interviews, an interview Saturday.
Marc:I'm just today.
Marc:It's Sunday.
Marc:I'm recording this and I'm still not quite right.
Marc:Not quite right.
Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Paul Scheer.
Marc:He's a comedian, a writer, an actor, co-host of podcasts.
Marc:How did this get made and unspooled?
Marc:Just wrote a book, Joyful Recollections of Trauma.
Marc:And in the book, he mentions that the first time he ever publicly talked about the stuff he wrote about in the book was when he was on WTF back in 2010.
Marc:And we're going to play a segment of that for you before this conversation.
Marc:I think it's important.
Marc:I'll be in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater on Friday, September 30th.
Marc:Then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum Theater on Saturday, September 21st.
Marc:You can go to WTFpod.com for tickets.
Marc:Martin Moe passed away on Thursday at 80 years old.
Marc:His daughter said he died after a long illness.
Marc:He was on episode 971 from November 2018, where he talked about his comedy, his music, his art and more.
Marc:A lot of stuff that's available for free and all podcast feeds episode 971.
Marc:And look, what have I been doing?
Marc:I've just been kind of, I've been working and watching documentaries.
Marc:I watched all six episodes of that Hitler documentary and a lot of good information.
Marc:The narrative was good, but it's, it is a great example of why reenactments are fucking terrible and
Marc:Now, look, I don't mean to begrudge the guy that played Hitler in the reenactments.
Marc:He put a lot into it.
Marc:You know, he got his hair going.
Marc:He got he was moving his arms around a lot and yelling.
Marc:He did all right.
Marc:But it was 80 percent reenactments.
Marc:And they should have just made a mediocre movie about Hitler, but the information was good.
Marc:And I actually didn't know the arc of some of that stuff, and it's very disturbing.
Marc:Obviously, there's ways to see where we're at now in this country as something foreboding in relation to the possibilities that Hitler opened the door to.
Marc:But I had a very odd moment, and I'm not sure I can explain it, and I'm not sure it'll come out right even, but...
Marc:You know, I watched that whole thing and the arc of racial hate and anti-Semitism.
Marc:I knew most of that, but I didn't know the build of it and how all these other Germans had run the thing.
Marc:It's one of those things where, you know, who did Hitler actually with his own hands kill anybody?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:maybe his niece, but somehow he was the driving force of the massacre of millions and millions of people and the deaths of millions of Germans.
Marc:And anytime you watch that guy or anything about him,
Marc:The depth of depravity and the scope of evil is so fucking overwhelming, it's hard to even wrap your brain around.
Marc:But there was an interesting moment where it just happened to me after watching that entire thing, and it was towards the end.
Marc:Spoiler alert.
Marc:Germany loses and Hitler kills himself.
Marc:But shortly before that, towards the end of that last episode, he gives his dog, the dog he loved, he gives it cyanide to see how it works.
Marc:That's the way this film went with it.
Marc:Hitler just kills his beloved dog.
Marc:And it was at that moment, for some reason, in my mind, I'm like, what kind of fucking monster kills his own dog for no reason?
Yeah.
Marc:That was the moment.
Marc:I'm like, well, Hitler.
Marc:And he killed half of Europe.
Marc:But it was the moment of the dog.
Marc:I'm like, this guy is a fuck.
Marc:The dog.
Marc:Unreal.
Marc:And I'm a Jew.
Marc:Okay, look, here's what we're going to do.
Marc:This first part you're going to hear of me and Paul, this was from November 2010, so a little more than a year after we started the podcast.
Marc:And in his new book, Joyful Recollections of Trauma, he says the DNA of this conversation is throughout the book.
Marc:This came from episode 124, and this is what happened after about a half hour of comedy talk when I was convinced Paul was a pretty well-adjusted guy.
Marc:Just a note before you hear this, Paul didn't identify his stepdad by name in his book.
Marc:So we're going to remove it from this older talk as well.
Marc:Here, listen up.
Marc:You know, I'd always seen you around and we never really talked.
Marc:And then when we did, I liked you.
Marc:But but you seem very well adjusted.
Marc:So I don't I don't understand that.
Guest:You would be surprised.
Marc:Yeah, like what?
Guest:No, I have demons.
Guest:I have demons.
Guest:My mom got divorced three times when I was a kid growing up.
Guest:Yeah, that was a little rough.
Guest:We lived a lot in small apartments and moved around Long Island.
Guest:I remember I had one stepdad who refused to let me call him by his name.
Guest:His name was .
Guest:He made me call him Daddy, which is in retrospect, weird.
Guest:But, yeah, you know, the craziest thing, I'll be embarrassed that my dad is probably going to listen to this, but my dad got into a fistfight with my stepdad in front of me when I was a kid.
Guest:Which stepdad?
Guest:Stepdad 2.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was crazy.
Guest:As a kid, to see, like, your real dad and your stepdad, like...
Guest:fight like fucking go for it i was young i was like i was like nine or ten what was that about it was like i remember seeing it like my dad and i come back from apple picking and and my step picking and watching videos and going to new york city loving it
Guest:my dad and i went to a martin lawrence concert at radio city music hall yeah run tell that and we were like in the center the only white people at this martin lawrence concert i was like begging him we gotta go see martin i brought my dad to def jam comedy like he came my dad was a good trooper at all this stuff but you're a big hip-hop guy um i just you know what as a kid i was like i didn't know i loved like i i don't say black comedy but i know like that was like a thing like i loved eddie murphy i love martin lawrence i love that show and
Guest:So I just was like, Def Jam, yes.
Guest:I want to see that.
Guest:And then we'd also go see George Carlin every single year in New York City and go see his shows.
Guest:He's a good dad.
Guest:Yeah, he was the best.
Guest:But yeah, so they got to this fist fight.
Guest:All I remember is this.
Guest:Back from apple picking.
Guest:Back from apples.
Guest:Back from apple picking, sitting, coming in, seeing my stepdad, who was in a bathrobe.
Guest:My stepdad was a truck driver for a supermarket.
Guest:And my dad came in.
Guest:And he goes, you don't say fucking hello to me, Bill.
Guest:And my dad's like, I said hello to you.
Guest:It's your fucking fault if you didn't hear it.
Guest:Then all of a sudden, my stepdad picked up a coffee mug, fucking wailed it at, like my dad said, my dad duck, and it exploded on the wall.
Guest:And then all of a sudden, they just went at it like a grappling thing around my kitchen table.
Guest:My dad's the most nice...
Guest:you know well-adjusted guy and then all of a sudden apples are flying so like i'm throwing apples my dad is throwing apples like and they fight out until they like literally leave the house like outside the front door like that kind of fighting my dad's a pharmacist again like you know if my pharmacist fighting a truck driver it was like something like out of a clint eastwood movie it was like boom boom it was insane insane
Guest:stuff you know that was like yeah so how did that resolve itself it resolved itself very cheesily which was um uh like hours later um i got on the phone and i was on the phone in my house and my dad was on a pay phone and they apologized to each other while i was in the middle like you know because i could be your benefit
Guest:Yes, for my benefit to hear them apologize.
Marc:They all decided probably on your mom's instruction.
Guest:Yes, it wasn't a good thing for the kid to see.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:So they had to like get together and apologize over me.
Guest:So that was that was a yeah, like that looking back on that, that was a pretty.
Guest:terrible do you remember being upset what was your reaction were you crying was it oh yeah i mean it's it was just chaos it was chaos and also like crazy because it's like you're watching your dad get into a fight and did you like the guy i didn't like my uh my bill my dad loved uh my stepdad hated him it was like the abusive fuck of a dude like a terrible oh your dad is bill my dad is bill yeah and your stepdad was
Guest:and he was just an abusive bad dude but uh yeah you know he'd come home like literally an arm in a cast because he got into a fight with you know at like work you know like did he beat you up um yeah like a little bit i mean like i say it very cavalierly but yeah like i mean we would get into some fucking fights like
Marc:I can't even imagine that.
Guest:Like we I lived on a farm and like we had horses and dogs and stuff.
Guest:And like I would talk back a lot.
Guest:Like I was my thing.
Guest:And comics do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so that's how we find our voice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was talking to like people this weekend.
Guest:I was like, I got into a ton of fights all until like eighth grade.
Guest:And I was like, oh, I got to stop.
Guest:Did you win?
Guest:Yeah, because I was fighting a 40-year-old guy at home.
Guest:That's why I was getting good at it.
Guest:I get so funny.
Guest:Out of all the people in the world, I would never assume you were a scrapper.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Big time.
Guest:Because you fight this big fucking 40-year-old dude, this fat dude who's strong and literally throwing a pitchfork at me and dodging a pitchfork.
Guest:Get the fuck out of here.
Guest:oh yeah like getting locked up in like well i can see why your mom loved him oh yeah it was crazy like my mom i think rebelled in the most crazy way because my dad's so nice and great and the man she's married to right now also wonderful and great but finally got a good one yeah and i think it was just number four number this is number three this is number three so so the first one
Guest:First was my dad.
Guest:Then it was then it was this guy.
Guest:And then it was this guy that she's married to now.
Guest:So I moved to three different houses.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But there was dating involved in there, too.
Marc:So you're saying that.
Marc:OK, so it was like your mom's fuck you to your dad.
Guest:Yeah, I think that she didn't.
Guest:She's like, I want something different.
Guest:And she got something insanely different.
Guest:You know, like, it was a crazy... Through a pitchfork at you.
Guest:Oh, and that's not even the worst.
Guest:I mean, like, but because of that kind of style of fighting, I think I never realized how strong I was.
Guest:So, like, when I was in... The dodging pitchfork style?
Guest:Yeah, well, like...
Guest:It was like, you know, you just learn to be, like, more of a grappler, you know?
Guest:It's like, you know, a lot of, like, just slaps and runs or punches in the stomachs and runs.
Guest:But when I was in sixth grade, I got into this fight with this kid, and he, like, gave me, like, a sixth grade punch, like, you know, a punch in the face.
Guest:I remember I... Oh, no, this is ninth grade.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:And I grabbed him by the neck, and we were by a car, and there was, like, a car fender there, and I was like...
Guest:whap whap like his face into a car fender we're both suspended from school yeah you know and because he started it i got to go back and he got kicked out but it was but like that kind of like did not realize like i was fighting for a much you know you're going for the fucking money you're gonna did they have to pull you off him
Guest:I remember that was a time where my knuckles were bloody from just punching.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That was a rough.
Guest:Yeah, I was a bruiser as a kid.
Guest:I had no fucking idea.
Guest:Paul Scheer, badass.
Guest:But I stopped.
Guest:I stopped that.
Guest:You had to give it up?
Guest:I had to give it up.
Guest:Went to comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:just turned into a different direction yeah i just i couldn't i remember like honestly just being like i think at one fight when i was a kid and this is like an early like yeah like 10th or 11th grade being like i don't want to do this anymore i don't like this how the fuck you i mean it must have been some sort of crossroads thank god you had your real dad there you know you could have ended up uh just a fucked up kid yeah i mean for sure i mean what what led to that decision i
Guest:I think that my dad came every weekend so he was able to kind of take me out and we would go every weekend we'd go and do something fun so it was like a break and he would also come like every Tuesday and Thursday I think to my house and like hang out so I saw my real dad a lot.
Guest:And I think that was a good relief.
Guest:And then my mom kind of wised up at a certain point.
Guest:She's like, Oh, we're out of here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, uh, guys throwing a pitchfork.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Kid, this guy has more guns than he has, uh, shirts, you know, holy shit.
Marc:How'd she shake him?
Marc:That sounds like it would have been hard to shake that guy.
Guest:This is it.
Guest:You want to hear how you shook him?
Guest:This is a crazy thing.
Guest:Um,
Guest:My mom created, she pretended that he won a trip, a hunting trip.
Guest:She created these envelopes and was like, you won this trip.
Guest:She did the layout and everything?
Guest:She did everything, and she got him plane tickets, got him a hotel, and created this whole fantasy seven days away from him.
Guest:The minute he left the house, a moving truck pulled in, and we got all of our shit out of the house, and we took off.
Guest:And we moved into a small one-bedroom apartment or two-bedroom apartment.
Guest:And just that was it.
Guest:So he comes back.
Guest:He comes back.
Guest:The house is empty.
Guest:And then he found us at a certain point.
Guest:And that was weird.
Guest:But, you know, it was like he was on his best behavior at that point.
Guest:Didn't she have to get divorced and everything?
Guest:Yeah, she had to get divorced.
Guest:But it was sort of like that is where I'm a little foggy on how that happened.
Guest:Like I'm just seeing it as a kid and being like, okay, we're moving all of our stuff.
Guest:Let's get out of here.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:you know and uh you know so i didn't know how all that how all that shook out but yeah we yeah then my mom started dating him for a little bit like they went on a couple of dates and like one of his before the divorce to see if it would still yes she got she got some boundaries and exactly and uh you know thank god that didn't stick i remember as a kid thinking to myself like oh god please oh you know the worst part about it too as a kid i was relieved
Guest:was a born again christian yeah like like born again christian to the point where you would my mom got re-baptized in a big pool and the pools in the front of the church and everyone speaks in tongues and you were there oh i spent how old how old oh god for like three or four years like ninth grade or no no like probably like fourth to sixth grade like in that area so you had to go to a born again christian church for like hours on a sunday like hours and hours and it was like everyone's like and the lord's speaking in tongues and
Guest:like people are getting healed and it was crazy and like my my parents took away my mom took my weird al yankovic in 3d album and broke it over her knee because it was a song was on there it was called nature trail to hell and it was on one of the uh the devil worship lists that like the the church had given them like these if your children have any of these albums and one of them was a weird al album you must find this and destroy it she
Guest:destroyed it in front of you yes and that and my ll cool j oh shit yeah and uh i was it was terrible i was crying like no my weird al my weird al album like did you ever tell weird al that story i did actually i got to tell weird al that story which was awesome and a great full 360 there
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:How did he respond?
Guest:He just thought it was insane because the song is called Nature Trail to Hell in 3D about going to a drive-in to see a horror movie called Nature Trail to Hell in 3D.
Guest:There's nothing satanic about Weird Al Yankovic at all.
Guest:No.
Guest:greatest stretch of the imagination but like you know and i'd listen to in excess my mom's like that might be satan they might be they you never know they're very cunning he's charming and that's it that was very funny yeah satan comes in hawaiian shirts yeah you know yeah yeah but my mom uh like took all my action figures away and gave me like 10 commandments figures like i had like i had moses like literally got moses action figure and he had like two tablets in his hand like the 10 commandments you're kidding me
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:What did you do with those action figures?
Guest:I would play with them like I would play Batman or G.I.
Guest:Joe.
Guest:Flying Moses?
Guest:Yeah, I would.
Guest:I would make Moses swing down a pole and get into a Batmobile.
Guest:My head still had a Batmobile, so Moses would drive a Batmobile.
Guest:He still had a job.
Guest:It was crazy.
Guest:He put Moses in the Batmobile.
Guest:Oh, it was insane.
Guest:And...
Guest:you know like that was a dark period like i think about say coming home to that house and my mom on a big my mom's still on a religious tick watching jesus of nazareth which was like a 12 part documentary of like yeah i remember that yeah watching that like over and over that was her saturday nights like watching that and oh just like my mom has become better now you go up and put you put moses in the batmobile yeah and just drive around my like what am i doing like you know just terrible like
Guest:terrible, terrible times in my household.
Guest:That is fucking grim, dude.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It was a dark, dark time.
Guest:How did she come out of it?
Guest:I think that it really was... I mean, you know, whatever.
Guest:I say it cavalierly now, but it was dark.
Guest:There was some points... I don't know if I saw everything that my mom experienced back then, because it was...
Guest:I was away on the weekends.
Guest:I think that's when it got rough.
Guest:I mean, I remember many times us going to hotels and stuff like that.
Guest:But bar none, I think this is the beginning of the end for us was there was a loaded handgun in our house.
Guest:And I remember having my mom held a hostage with a handgun and seeing that as a kid.
Guest:What, during a fight?
Guest:During a fight.
Guest:And that was like...
Guest:I remember like going, what is going like that?
Guest:You know, as a kid and as a kid, I can say it now and I go, wow.
Guest:Like even thinking about it now, I'm like, wow, that was crazy dark.
Guest:Like that's insane.
Guest:But like as a kid, it doesn't register.
Guest:I don't think it's like what's going on.
Guest:You just probably sense that your mom's in danger.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And that was like, and I remember like, you must've just been crying all the fucking time.
Guest:And I remember saying to my mom, like, we got to get out of here.
Guest:Like, I mean, my mom's like, no, no, no, it's okay.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:I was like, we got to go.
Guest:We got to go.
Marc:Did he hit her too?
Guest:Um, yeah, he hit me, hit her.
Guest:I mean, I, but you know what?
Guest:Never to the point of like, we never were hurt.
Guest:So I think that was like my, like, that was always my kind of, uh, like line.
Guest:Like, oh, well we don't have broken arms or we don't have this or we don't have that.
Marc:Was there some party that felt bad for him?
Uh,
Guest:um like no no he wasn't no i thought of him like he he didn't even he didn't cry and apologize and fucking he would apologize but he was like a like he was like an older brother instead of a yeah a dad like so it was like that kind of relationship so it was a lot of like yeah a lot of like and a lot of like
Guest:I think he was competitive for my mom's affection towards me, which is insane.
Guest:It's like, well, that's a mother and a son.
Guest:That's not your husband.
Guest:So it would come out a lot in Indian burns, that kind of stuff, which would really hurt.
Guest:But I do remember calling, we called Child Protective Services at one point, and they came to the house and they interviewed our parents.
Guest:side by side and uh and they were like does this happen and my mom's like no and they talked to me i was like yes they're like oh well the kid's lying that the parents are telling the truth and then they're getting beaten for that yeah oh yeah of course like there was i mean it was the gun thing though so that you like shortly after your mom that was about yeah i think it was about roughly that time holy shit yeah who's she married to now she's married to a great guy this guy walter awesome and you get along with your mom
Guest:I get along with my mom very well.
Guest:We actually have a better relationship now.
Marc:How do you think you managed to not get as fucked up as many people in that situation?
Marc:Aside from fighting, you decided not to fight anymore because of your dad's influence.
Marc:But, I mean, holy shit.
Marc:I mean, you're a pretty fucking pleasant guy.
Guest:Well, I think... Thank you for saying that.
Guest:I think I had a good escape back then, though, in a way.
Guest:I feel like...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I love TV and movies.
Guest:Moses and the Batmobile.
Guest:Yeah, Moses and the Batmobile.
Guest:But I really got into movies and TV.
Guest:And the comedy was a real reprieve.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I listened to Smothers Brothers albums.
Guest:I had all my dad's old Smothers Brothers albums.
Guest:It was fun to sit and hear that.
Guest:And I remember even reading an article.
Guest:I think it was a Smothers Brothers article where I think they had some messed up parents.
Guest:And I remember going like, oh...
Guest:okay, well, that's cool because maybe they had messed up parents.
Guest:I had messed up parents.
Guest:Maybe that, that it evens out.
Guest:Like, it's like, that's what I'm like.
Guest:If I want to do this, like I have to have that or.
Marc:Well, but also I think there's something that I've experienced is that I never quite understood why until, you know, as I talked to more comedic performers that, you know, when you think about doing comedy and you're coming from that, that you're really thinking about doing something that might've been the only thing that made you feel better.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that you can't really think of what else you would do.
Guest:Yeah, I think you're right.
Guest:I remember as a kid, all I wanted to do was do what Eddie Murphy does.
Guest:I want to be like Eddie Murphy.
Guest:I want to be like Eddie Murphy.
Guest:And I would just sit out on my front yard and act out sketches.
Guest:Just, like, talk to myself.
Guest:Did you know Delirious?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I watched Delirious on HBO.
Guest:We didn't get HBO, but back when cable was old, you would have, like, you could hear, but you couldn't see.
Guest:On that weird half station?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yo, so I would watch Delirious like that, like, listening to Delirious.
Guest:You saw, like, half of Eddie Murphy.
Guest:Just, like, going in and out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, like, it was like the, like, something that had, yeah, it was just like... And I just remember watching that in tears, just streaming down my face, going, like, this...
Guest:is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life.
Guest:Boogie in my butt and those albums.
Guest:And I got away with a lot because my dad, I think, would buy me these albums not realizing how dirty they were.
Guest:But did you have to hide them at the other house or did you keep them at your dad's house?
Guest:I kept them in my house.
Guest:I would just listen to them in my room.
Guest:No one would come up there to see what I was listening to.
Guest:They didn't have stand-up comedy tapes run on those lists, so I could have my Billy Crystal You Look Marvelous album and listen to that and listen to Stephen Wright.
Guest:They'd have an effective way to dramatically destroy tapes.
Guest:Exactly, right.
Guest:Records you could break.
Guest:Yeah, these, they couldn't do anything.
Guest:So, yeah, it was all, like, Bill Cosby, Emo Phillips, Smothers Brothers.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And, you know, it was, like, it was, yeah, it was great.
Guest:Like, I just remember, like, and I didn't listen to music when I was a kid, so I only listened to comedy.
Guest:I think maybe that's a trick, too.
Guest:Like, I would never go to my room and be like, I'm listening to music.
Guest:I'd be like, I'd go to my room and listen to albums.
Guest:Like, Andrew Dice Clay.
Guest:Yeah, put on those and just sit there and just be like, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And just laugh by yourself.
Guest:Yeah, and then.
Guest:You had siblings or you didn't?
Guest:no siblings and wherever I lived I had no buddy lived near me no kids lived near me so I was always alone in the neighborhood and there was no kids to play with after school so it was like always comedy and like I would so sad I would take like Running Scared was this like Gregory Hines Billy Crystal movie like a buddy comedy yeah I remember that yeah
Guest:And I would take my tape recorder and put it by my TV and tape the movie on cassettes and then bring those cassettes with me on my bus to school and be listening to movies like that.
Guest:Listen to full movies, like albums.
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:Yeah, so I did that.
Marc:You didn't have friends?
Guest:Oh, I had friends.
Guest:I had friends.
Guest:I got... I always seemed to get, like... I got popular at certain points, but I was always a nerd.
Guest:Like, wherever I went, the first two years, I was a nerd and an outcast.
Guest:And the last two years, I had friends.
Marc:What was your nerd focus?
Marc:Was it just comedy, or did you do other shit?
Marc:I mean, were you a good student?
Guest:I mean, yeah, I guess I was an okay student.
Marc:No Dungeons & Dragons?
Guest:No Dungeons & Dragons.
Guest:I think I was just, like...
Guest:in my own world.
Guest:I think I was a little bit more of, like, an outsider.
Guest:Yeah, like, like, like a kid who would be, like, drawing, and then someone would be like, hey, and I'd be like, what?
Guest:You know, and look like, you know, like, that kind of, like, but then I, like, I remember, like, um, I was making out with this girl in sixth grade, and that was, like, I was, like, one of the first kids to make out with a girl in sixth grade, and, like, that was, that ascended my popularity for a little bit, and then immediately, like, the next year, I went to, like, a new school, and then I was, like, back down in the dregs again.
Guest:Just, you know, like, ah.
Guest:I had it.
Guest:I had it all.
Marc:Now I lost it.
Marc:Back amongst the people.
Marc:Yeah, just terrible.
Marc:Again, that was from episode 124 with Paul Scheer in 2010.
Marc:So I listened to that conversation with Paul before having this new one.
Marc:So this is now like it's almost like a part two.
Marc:It's like a follow up to what's happened with his life since he first started dealing with what happened to him as a kid.
Marc:OK, so now we are with Paul.
Marc:Current day, his new book, Joyful Recollections of Trauma, is available now wherever you get books.
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:Me and Paul, a few weeks ago.
Marc:Like, it's been 14, 15 years.
Guest:15 years since we have done this.
Guest:It's crazy, dude.
Guest:It's nuts.
Guest:Because I feel like I see you, I'm a fan of yours, I listen to the podcast, watch your movies, and I see you at Largo all the time.
Guest:But yeah, when I looked at that today, I was like...
Marc:I know we see each other around, but we're not in each other's lives per se.
Marc:But what I was going to say is you don't look any different.
Guest:It's the gift of the baldness.
Guest:I talk about that all the time.
Guest:Bald men don't age.
Guest:It really does.
Guest:You don't see that much.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:You suffer early on when you're in your 20s and bald.
Guest:You look at it and you're like, oh, that poor son of a bitch.
Guest:But then when you get in your 40s, it's like, oh, all right.
Guest:It all evens out.
Guest:It all comes back.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, bald men are, that's the one thing I can say to bald men.
Guest:Keep it short.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And don't worry about it if you go bald early.
Guest:Yeah, it's kind of amazing.
Marc:You look timeless.
Marc:And as soon as I grow my hair out, which it is now, because I have to go do this role and I want to give them options.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I leave all the hair I have.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and then like build the guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, but most of the time.
Guest:You don't get nervous about that.
Guest:Like you don't get nervous like walking around with a look that is not your own.
Guest:What, after?
Guest:Just while you're shooting it.
Marc:I've kind of sucked it up.
Marc:You know, like I've, one time I did a no mustache.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And that was weird.
Marc:But, you know, it was me and it was kind of a welcome change.
Guest:There's, when I was on Black Monday, the show I did with Don Cheadle and Regina Hall.
Guest:Oh yeah, that was a good show.
Guest:Super.
Guest:super fun show.
Guest:Um, so in the second season of that show, my character was on the run.
Guest:So I'd shave off my beard and have a mustache, just a mustache.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I gotta tell you, the looks that people gave me with just a mustache.
Guest:Different.
Guest:It was different.
Guest:It was a different vibe, especially when it was coming in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like once it got to its full potential.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People are like, I like the mustache.
Guest:But the growing in part is the part where people are like, you might be a pedophile.
Guest:There's something about it.
Marc:You're projecting a little bit.
Marc:I mean, I think we get invested in this stuff.
Marc:When I get very hairy, I look very old and disheveled because all the gray comes out.
Marc:But if they cut all my hair off, it's all right.
Marc:I want to keep the facial probably.
Marc:I don't know what they're going to do.
Marc:I don't, you know, but most of the time I get there, they're like, we'll just kind of leave it.
Marc:And I'm like, well, make me something else.
Guest:I like the idea that you can transform into a character.
Guest:You want them to do that.
Guest:You're like, yeah, let me get in.
Guest:I know, let's do it.
Marc:And they're like, but we kind of like this.
Marc:I'm like, ah, fuck.
Marc:I just want to look different.
Marc:Like on Glow, that guy just had a mustache and he had that hairdo.
Marc:And that was enough.
Marc:That was enough to go on.
Guest:But it feels like when we watch these great performances, people have totally transformed.
Guest:But you look at Adam Driver, he looks the same in every movie.
Marc:A lot of them look the same.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, Brad Pitt, give or take.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Looks the same.
Marc:Clooney, occasionally some stubble.
Marc:Stubble.
Marc:That's all you're going to get.
Marc:I'm not, I don't think I'm, I've let go of the idea that I'm going to be a transformative actor.
Marc:Like if you know, if you let me commit to a jacket or some pants.
Marc:Like, I don't think Sam Sylvia changed his pants in the entire seasons of GLOW.
Guest:When I was on Fresh Off the Boat, I never wore a different shirt.
Guest:It was always the same shirt.
Guest:And it's like, I looked forward to that shirt.
Guest:And I love that shirt because it was a Kenny Rogers brand shirt.
Guest:So for a short period of time, Kenny Rogers was manufacturing shirts.
Guest:Oh, I miss that.
Guest:Why did that stop?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It was a good looking shirt.
Guest:He did chickens, did shirts.
Guest:The guy was a talent.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:How do you feel about acting these days?
Marc:Good?
Guest:I feel the same way that I always feel about it, which is I'm happy when I get to do it and someone wants me to do something in their thing, but I can't expect someone to want me to do anything.
Marc:I think everything that I've done... It's like I looked at your thing because I'm like, I'm going to catch up, see what's going on, take a look at the Wikipedia, and it looks like you've done a thousand things.
Guest:I just, I try to work.
Guest:I try to create my own stuff.
Guest:I try to just be, just be busy, you know?
Guest:But that's, I feel like you just have to keep on hustling, right?
Marc:You got all these producer credits.
Guest:What's that?
Guest:I make some shows.
Guest:You make shows?
Guest:I make shows.
Guest:I mean, we, you know, we produced, you know, I made Human Giant with Aziz.
Guest:Well, that was way back.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so, but that gave me at least a cachet to say, I've made a show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I got a chance to work with like Adult Swim because I got to make my own show over there, this NTSF, SDSU.
Guest:and then then that kind of begot more things you know like if you can do something and deliver and be on time and be a nice reasonable person you can produce and I feel like you've done network shows yeah I did a Fox show called Party Over Here with the Lonely Island Guys and we had an all female sketch show with Nicole Byer Allison Rich and Jess McKenna super fun so it's sketch so it's your area you're not just producing procedural no yeah I'm not gonna be like I'm not doing like you know New York PD or something like that you know
Guest:You know, I'm not going into that world, but it's like, but I think, you know, this too, it's like doing this, doing the podcast, doing all these things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You want to have your hands in it.
Guest:I want to have some control.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I don't look for the other work.
Marc:Like I'm good with the podcast.
Marc:I'll do the standup.
Marc:They want me to act.
Marc:So I resist it, but I don't ever sit around and think like, how can I make myself more, uh, overwhelmed with work?
Guest:Uh,
Guest:I look at it more like if I'm not getting work for myself, I can't expect anyone else to do it for me.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:If someone brings me something great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But 90% of the stuff that I feel like I get is through personal relationships.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like, I can't just go in and expect, okay, I can get this audition.
Guest:Here we go.
Marc:No, I don't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't even think about that.
Marc:But I guess for me doing this show and the standup, I'm like, I'm good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How much, I don't need to produce much more.
Marc:I'll play some music.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Here and there.
Marc:And I'll show up for these acting things occasionally.
Marc:I'm very resistant to acting.
Marc:You are.
Guest:You see, but you are somebody who was completely embraced as soon as you started acting.
Guest:I feel like when you were on Globe.
Guest:I've done a few things.
Marc:Yeah, and it was great.
Marc:I think they see me as a type.
Marc:I mean, like, it's not like I'm 60.
Marc:I'm a cranky, you know, kind of intense, sensitive Jewish guy.
Guest:I can see you perfectly on Young Sheldon.
Guest:The spinoff of Young Sheldon could put you in anything.
Guest:This is the perfect age.
Guest:When you get to 60, this is where the world opens up because everyone's dropped off.
Marc:Well, yeah, I'm going to start getting all the Judd Hirsch parts when he drops dead.
Marc:Can you turn up the Jew a little?
Marc:No.
Marc:But in the book, you talk about that story about whatever that weird tour was or whatever.
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So one of my dad and I visited L.A.
Guest:How old were you, though?
Guest:I was in sixth grade.
Guest:So I don't know what that I was bad at, like, remembering what it made 11.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, uh, I'm in sixth grade and my dad and I go out to LA and we, we read in one of these guidebooks.
Guest:The best thing to do in LA is to go to Hollywood on location, which is this little, like, like little office in Beverly Hills.
Guest:Still exist?
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:I would imagine.
Marc:It seemed like a great racket because they're just getting the rundowns that anyone could get.
Guest:You go, you pay them 75 bucks.
Guest:They give you a photocopy printout of everything that's shooting in LA.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Exteriors.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:And they just send you on your way.
Guest:You just go.
Guest:You could,
Guest:Hang around.
Guest:Wherever you want.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was a time where, I mean, if you were a stalker, it's a perfect, I mean, it told you who was there.
Guest:It's like, okay, highway to heaven, Victor French and, you know, and Michael Landon will be here.
Marc:I think it's relatively public information, isn't it?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I think if you're smart, you could figure out like a who pulled
Guest:permits and what is it for.
Guest:And I think that's why they started changing names.
Guest:And that might have been part of their... On the little placards for what's shooting?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I think that that may have been what they were offering if they had different placards.
Guest:But we went, my dad and I, we went and we saw Michael Landon.
Guest:And this is a time where...
Guest:you would be near a set, and you could just... I have a picture of me standing next to Michael Landon as he's talking to his DP, like, directing a shot with a cigarette in his mouth and, like, framing up a shot, and I'm like, how the fuck am I that close to this?
Guest:Like, you would never get that close.
Guest:But they just...
Guest:Every one of these productions, these people would just bring you in.
Guest:So I met like David Carradine and he signed an autograph with like a yin yang symbol.
Guest:You know, and I'm meeting Marky Post.
Guest:And I went on the set of Simon and Simon.
Guest:And then we end up at this movie Communion.
Guest:And I don't know what this is.
Guest:And the security guard approaches us and says, you want to meet a celebrity?
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, I met a bunch today.
Guest:And he's like, but this is the biggest of them all.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, who is it?
Guest:And he's like, Christopher Walken.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, as an 11-year-old, I have no idea.
Guest:I'm not watching Deer Hunter.
Guest:I'm not watching Dead Zone.
Guest:And my dad's like, no, no, you know him.
Guest:He's the bad guy from the James Bond movie.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I want to meet this guy.
Guest:He goes, all right, hold on one second.
Guest:Guy walks in, walks away, comes back out.
Guest:And he's like, all right, Christopher wants to meet you.
Guest:But no camera, no parents.
Guest:And I look at my dad and my dad's like, do you want to go?
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I want to go.
Guest:So I give him my camera and I, and I, and this guy takes me across the street and we go into this abandoned warehouse and it kind of opens the door.
Guest:I walk in and he shuts it behind me.
Guest:He stays outside and now we're in this dark ass warehouse, like a little bit of light peering in through like the doors.
Guest:And then from out of the darkness,
Guest:Christopher Walken.
Guest:Now, again, I'm not super familiar with him at this time.
Guest:And he's in this movie where he is communing with aliens.
Guest:So it's an alien movie and his face is pasty white makeup and it's like sparkling.
Guest:And he's wearing like these contact lenses.
Guest:So seeing this image just come out of the darkness, I was like, I'm the kind of frozen.
Guest:And he's like, you know, he's like, hello, little man.
Guest:And he touches me and he's like, do you believe in aliens?
Guest:And I go, yes.
Guest:And he's like, yeah, I do too.
Guest:We're making a movie about aliens.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, yeah.
Guest:And he's like, what do you want to do when you grow up?
Guest:And I said, I want to be an actor.
Guest:And I don't know what I'm doing at this point because he's talking to me.
Guest:Michael Landon just signed and I walked away.
Guest:And he's engaging me.
Guest:And then he gets down on his knees.
Guest:And he puts his hands on my shoulders and kind of looks me in the eye.
Guest:He goes...
Guest:Don't let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do.
Guest:And then like signs my autograph and then releases me.
Guest:And as if on cue, like the door opens, the security guard comes and takes me out.
Guest:I'm like, which I don't even know what happened here.
Guest:But it was, like, forever burned in my brain.
Guest:Like, I had this meeting with Christopher Walken.
Guest:And I would tell people, like, I met Christopher Walken.
Guest:I don't even, like, I didn't even feel like I knew him.
Guest:And as I got older, I'm like, oh, my God, that's the craziest thing.
Guest:But I always remembered this man in this white face just grabbing me and telling me, don't let anyone tell you what you can be.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Now, have you run into him anywhere?
Guest:Never.
Guest:And I don't want to.
Guest:I don't want... You don't want to... You want to keep it pure?
Guest:Yeah, because there's something so great about...
Guest:That like it's like, you know, it's in my mind.
Guest:It's like I can't top it.
Guest:So like I like it will only go downhill.
Guest:I'll be like, oh, yeah, I met him again.
Guest:And he was like a sleep in a chair.
Marc:And yeah, it was just so funny at that in that era.
Marc:Like it's such an abstract kind of like, you know, Michael Landon and Keith Carradine.
Marc:They were on television.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And it was, these are, you know, they're trivia question answers.
Marc:Walken is still, you know, vital to a degree and notoriously himself.
Guest:Just an interesting guy who you're like, of all the people to meet, that's like, that was the best one of the day.
Marc:I remember when I was growing up in Albuquerque, they were shooting the movie Convoy.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:It was Sam Peckinpah's, maybe his last movie.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:It was not a great movie, but it had everybody in it.
Marc:And I remember we found out they were all staying down at the Hilton, and I just started hanging around.
Marc:I met Ali McGraw.
Marc:I met Ernest Borgnine.
Marc:Ernest Borgnine.
Marc:That's what I wanted.
Marc:Dressed as a cop.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A sheriff of some kind.
Marc:I'm trying to remember who else I met.
Marc:I met Peckinpah.
Marc:I was trying to get pictures with them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know what happened to those pictures, but you could just walk around and do that.
Guest:And it felt like everyone was cool with it.
Guest:Like, that's what I'm saying.
Guest:These security guards are LAPD officers.
Guest:They're like, oh, come, come here.
Guest:You're a kid.
Guest:Come closer.
Guest:You know, and it's like, and get, you know, when I was a kid growing up,
Guest:My dad and I go to a bunch of basketball games at Madison Square Garden and I could just walk right into the press rooms because they're like, oh, well, he's, he's clearly a kid of somebody, but we're not going to stop a kid.
Guest:And I would just walk behind the scenes.
Guest:I met basketball players.
Guest:I did everything just because I can't believe my dad let me just go off and walk.
Guest:I'm going to go wander.
Guest:And I just would get in and find my way back.
Guest:But yeah, I met like Patrick Ewing and stuff in a hallway just because again, no one's going to stop a kid.
Marc:And there was different, like, I remember I was in Vegas.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:My brother was a big tennis kid.
Marc:And there was some invitational there.
Marc:Sadly, it might have been Bill Cosby's.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And it was a big tournament.
Marc:And, like, Bjorn Borg was there, John McEnroe.
Marc:These are my brother's heroes.
Marc:And we're just walking around the courts grabbing pictures.
Guest:Nobody was around.
Guest:And no one was there to protect you.
Guest:By the way, I do have a story in that book, too, about Bill Cosby, which was...
Guest:Same thing at Madison Square Garden.
Guest:He's we're watching some college basketball.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, again, I put this in context because I think a lot of people now, you know, know Bill Cosby for everything that's gone on in the last decade.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But when I was a kid, this was the he was the king of all men.
Guest:He was the Cosby show was huge.
Guest:It was like a show I love.
Guest:I taped it every week.
Guest:And I see him down there and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to go talk to Bill Cosby.
Guest:And I go down and I wait for a timeout in the game and I just really approach him.
Guest:I go, Mr. Cosby, can I have an autograph?
Guest:No, nothing.
Guest:Like I wasn't even there like a ghost.
Guest:And I'm like, Mr. Cosby, can...
Guest:hi Mr. Cosby and he's just staring forward but there's nothing going on to watch so he's just zoned right in the front and I don't know I'm a young kid I don't know that to take this as a fuck you like right so I just kind of then I'd start standing there awkwardly next to him just waiting until he turns around and then he his head just turned almost like a like a bird's head like where his whole body stayed center but his head just turned and he was like
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:And I just got the fuck out of there.
Guest:It's the scariest thing.
Guest:Like, go.
Guest:And it was, it still chills me to my core because as a kid, this was the nicest guy of all time.
Guest:Yeah, those are the heartbreakers.
Guest:Yeah, and it was just like, and not even like, I'm not signing autographs.
Guest:It was like a straight up ignore and then,
Guest:Yeah, there are people we know that do that.
Guest:I have such an issue with this because I've seen friends of mine do this thing where they won't take a picture.
Guest:But by the time they get done explaining why they won't take a picture, you could have taken five pictures and been done with it.
Guest:Because it's always like, hey, can I get a picture?
Guest:Oh, sorry, I'm not taking pictures.
Guest:And then the person's like, oh, wait, what?
Guest:I'm actually not taking pictures right now.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Just come on.
Guest:For me?
Guest:No, man, I'm not going to take a picture.
Guest:All this back and forth
Guest:It's like, just click.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:You got it.
Marc:Yeah, I guess.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I guess it's a boundary, and I can understand it if it starts.
Marc:Sometimes, depending where you are, it could start a flurry.
Marc:100%.
Marc:Depending on who you are.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Especially after a show or something, if you're trying to get out or you just wait until it's just stragglers.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Even if you take one, then all of a sudden you just see them coming back in.
Guest:I feel like I always, I'm always down for it because I think at the end of the day,
Guest:I'm like, the only reason why I'm able to do any of this is because people listen to stuff, watch stuff.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I do it.
Marc:And some part of me just kind of like, I lock into some different mode where it's not exhausting and I just do it.
Marc:And again, we're not Denzel Washington, right?
Marc:So it's like a whole deal, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Some guy in the truck said, hey, Mark, Marin, can I get your autograph?
Marc:And I'm like, isn't a picture easier?
Marc:Yeah, the autograph seemed like such an old school thing.
Guest:What are you going to do with a piece of paper?
Guest:Put that up on a wall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember I bought an autograph when I was a kid.
Guest:I was so excited.
Guest:I saved up my money to buy a Quentin Tarantino autograph.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, and what am I doing with this?
Guest:Like, it's not even one that I got, so I have no personal connection.
Marc:Well, you could have become one of those guys that hang around in the back doors of places.
Marc:You know, those guys...
Marc:You ever go to the airport and there's five of them there?
Marc:And no matter where you go, it all looks like the same guy.
Guest:It looks like the same group of guys.
Guest:And those guys are not the nastiest, but they can be the most aggressive.
Guest:Because a lot of the times they're making you sign a blank photo sheet.
Guest:And I'm like, okay, I'll sign two.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:And I'm like, I'm also like, you're not making any money off of these.
Guest:I don't even know what the autograph trade is.
Marc:I don't even know what it is either.
Marc:It must be some sort.
Marc:I'd like to know more.
Marc:Why doesn't someone do a doc on those guys?
Marc:Because it's like, are they trading them?
Marc:Are they competing?
Marc:Because I'm not making them any money.
Guest:No, I get baseball cards.
Guest:I get like that kind of stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But like autographing.
Guest:a picture i've looked on ebay because i had the same i'm like maybe you're gonna get eight bucks maybe you know that's me you know i mean but it's like you're not gonna get it's not a windfall yeah you know it's maybe they got faith in you maybe it's almost like that it's like you're gambling right like you know i wonder how much this is gonna be worth in two years right if i do something really messed up it would be worth a lot like you know like hey i got a it's a guy who played beretta you know i got like i got a robber blake you know hey oh all right this is good
Marc:I sent away, I knew a kid in junior high that used to collect autographed pictures, and he'd just send, you know, a letter.
Marc:Oh, I did that.
Marc:Yeah, I did too.
Marc:I remember I got Buddy Hackett's.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:Got Buddy Hackett's signed picture.
Marc:I got a Mae West signed picture.
Guest:Whoa, these are great.
Guest:I got Steve Martin, Paul Reiser.
Guest:I got like, yeah, I got like a David Letterman.
Guest:I got a couple of these.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're great.
Guest:Like you would just send away and you, and it was so fun to get it.
Guest:It felt like, whoa, someone's reading this mail.
Guest:Like, you know, the fact that they were like, even that celebrities are sending eight by tens, like autographed eight by tens is a kind of crazy idea.
Guest:What happened with Alan Alda?
Guest:Oh, so this is when, again, when I'm a kid, I am with my grandma.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My grandma and her bridge friends, and we're sitting at this restaurant in the Hamptons, and there's Alan Alda at this other table.
Guest:Now, again...
Guest:Alan Alda, I like him a lot more now, but as a kid, MASH was a boring show to me.
Guest:I wanted to watch Different Strokes.
Guest:I wanted to watch Silver Spoons, Happy Days.
Guest:I don't know why MASH was a bummer.
Guest:Maybe it was a theme song.
Guest:It was not my show.
Guest:And my grandma's like, go, go talk to Alan Alda.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't want to.
Guest:She's like, go, go.
Guest:You got to talk to him.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't really even know him that well.
Guest:And she's like, go.
Guest:So I go.
Guest:And I approach the table.
Guest:And I go over.
Guest:And I wait for a break in the conversation.
Guest:I'm being polite.
Guest:Because they're having lunch.
Guest:And I go, Mr. Alder, can I have your autograph?
Guest:And he goes, no.
Guest:Just no.
Guest:And, you know, that was the first time I've ever been rejected, especially as a kid.
Guest:Like, I didn't know you could say no.
Guest:And I wasn't expecting that no.
Guest:And I'm now stuck.
Guest:And I start walking away.
Guest:And he's like, you know what, actually, kid.
Guest:Name three things I'm in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'll give you an autograph.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, now I'm now I'm stumped.
Guest:And now everyone at the table is kind of laughing because they're watching me like fun for I'm like mash and and then like, you know, he cuts me off.
Guest:He's like, not such a fan.
Guest:And I'm like, and he's like, okay.
Guest:And sends me on, didn't sign me an autograph or anything, just sends me on my way back.
Guest:And I just was mortified, right?
Guest:Like, he just shut me down so hard.
Guest:And then my grandma's laughing so hard, like, ha, ha, ha, ha, you idiot.
Guest:I'm like, I didn't even want to go.
Guest:I didn't want to talk to this guy.
Guest:And everything I've heard about him is he's a lovely guy.
Guest:He's a lovely guy.
Guest:I'm sort of surprised by that story.
Guest:I think what it is is, and this is my gut, is that he...
Guest:probably caught that this table of women were like pointing at him looking at him and then force this little kid on him because again yeah so why not yeah i'm not i'm not watching yeah well yeah i guess that's the other side i'm not like watching four seasons yeah and i i will never forget that image of a table full of adults like
Guest:thinking this is the funniest thing.
Guest:And I had this other moment.
Guest:This actually makes me think of this.
Guest:I grew up in Long Island.
Guest:You know, it's outside of New York.
Guest:It has a very unique energy to it.
Guest:It's kind of jockey, but it's kind of like...
Guest:Working class too.
Guest:There's an energy to it that I just can't find anywhere else.
Guest:And I went out to my cousin's communion and we were going to this Italian restaurant afterwards.
Guest:And at this point, I'm very early on in my career.
Guest:I don't really have that much there.
Guest:And this guy,
Guest:you know, is automatically threatened by me.
Guest:Like, you know, Paul's a comedian.
Guest:He does stuff.
Guest:He's like, oh, this guy's a comedian?
Guest:This guy's a comedian?
Guest:And then he starts like, give me a joke, you know, that whole thing.
Guest:I'm like, oh, I don't really do that.
Guest:And he's like, and then whatever happened in that interaction, I got put in a headlock by this guy.
Guest:guys like this you're funny yeah you're fine i'm like this is a fucking way a major d at this restaurant who's now has me in a headlock at an italian restaurant just because i am there and i am in comedy and i didn't know what i i was like sweating in this weird way like i don't even know how to get out of this like i don't know if this is proving that you're funnier than me that you now have me in a headlock what's the point i don't
Guest:know what just happened and like I just like left like just shocked like a little humiliated yeah like traumatized like why am I being bullied by what come what are you supposed to do with that you know I mean are there comedians that go like I got one for you well this is the when one night I went out and Russell Crowe had wrecked
Guest:We had gone... The head of MTV invited us out for dinner, Human Giant, all of us.
Guest:And we're out for dinner, and Pauly Shore also came.
Guest:And, you know, so Pauly's at this table.
Guest:I've never met Pauly Shore before.
Guest:And we're all hanging out there, and then Russell Crowe walks by the table, and he's like, Pauly!
Guest:Pauly!
Guest:And he comes over, and then Pauly just kind of, like...
Guest:Negs him, like, I don't remember meeting you, man.
Guest:And he's like, what?
Guest:You don't remember meeting me?
Guest:We were on the talk show.
Guest:We did this thing.
Guest:We did this.
Guest:And he's like, nah, man, I don't know.
Guest:And then makes Russell get more amped up.
Guest:Like, come on, we did this.
Guest:We did this.
Guest:And he just pulls over a chair, does a move that I've never seen anyone do in my life, where he waves over to the maitre d' and goes, that's too bright.
Guest:So the maitre d' gets up on the table, unscrews two light bulbs above our heads.
Guest:So now we're in the darkness.
Guest:And then we just start sitting with him.
Guest:And he finds out that we're comedians.
Guest:And he goes, tells a joke.
Guest:And then we're all like, we don't have jokes.
Guest:We're not that kind of comedian.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And he goes, all right, all right.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I'll tell you a joke.
Guest:And he had jokes.
Guest:And it was like...
Guest:He was like, it was like, I always remember there is like, I kind of remember the punchline.
Guest:It was like, you know, it was the, the punchline was like, Jesus wasn't giving the sign of the cross.
Guest:He was just trying to swat away a fly.
Guest:He's like, like, and it was like, and it was like, that's a joke.
Guest:And we're like,
Guest:oh yeah yeah yeah he's like alright so give me a joke and we're like we don't all have him he's like alright here's another one and he had them locked and loaded ready to give us like a million jokes and was so mad that we didn't have it and then for a while I kept like five like street jokes in my phone like just in the notes app like if I'm ever in this situation I'm gonna be like
Guest:Okay, here it is.
Guest:Because I couldn't bear dealing with that anymore.
Marc:I've got jokes, and I can tell street jokes, but it always seems like provoking.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's never sort of like, I want to hear the funny guy tell a thing.
Marc:It's like, what do you got?
Marc:Yeah, impress me right now.
Guest:It would be like saying to LeBron James, like, all right, shoot a free throw right now.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:I mean, that's even easier.
Marc:Right, I guess you're right.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Where's the ball?
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:The worst that could happen is you miss.
Guest:It's like, but there's like this thing where it's like, prove it.
Guest:I can.
Guest:I don't know if I can prove it.
Guest:There's nothing to prove.
Marc:I went to a high school reunion a couple of years ago.
Marc:I don't know how long it's been.
Marc:It must've been my eight, nine.
Marc:Was that fun?
Marc:No, it wasn't great because it was, you know, it seemed to be arranged by exactly the kids you didn't like in high school.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it wasn't everybody.
Marc:And it was a weird mix, but I knew most of them.
Marc:But, like, the organizer, one of these women who, you know, I wasn't close to in high school.
Marc:She's like, so do you want to go do some comedy?
Marc:You're a comedian, right?
Marc:And I'm like, I couldn't think of a thing I would rather do fucking less than go up in front of the school that embarrassed me.
Marc:Like, it's so triggering, dude.
Marc:These are the things.
Marc:I was talking about this.
Marc:And there's some comics that do that kind of comedy.
Marc:Like, Jeff Ross would be like, sure, no problem.
Marc:There are guys who would do it.
Guest:I'm not that kind of guy.
Guest:I mean, it also, you're right.
Guest:You have to really work a room.
Guest:And it's really like turning a room around because people are not ready.
Guest:They don't want.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It's like, it's not, no one's, that's not a good forum for success ever.
Marc:But also I know, like I saw the jocks.
Marc:I knew all the, like most of the guys that I was friends with weren't even there.
Marc:So it would be giving these guys a second opportunity to,
Marc:In my grown up life to be like, he's not that good.
Marc:I saw him.
Marc:He wasn't that funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't even remember.
Marc:You remember that kid?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, what the fuck would I do?
Marc:Apparently he has like a radio show or something.
Marc:There's that.
Marc:There's that whole thing.
Guest:Like, you know, you finally get something and then your parents are like, I don't know what you're doing.
Guest:I was on Veep and my mom says to me, she's like, I've been watching a year.
Guest:I haven't seen you on the show.
Guest:And I'm like, what do you mean you haven't?
Guest:I've been on like every week this, this last month.
Guest:And she's like, I haven't seen it.
Guest:And I'm like, what are you?
Guest:And I'm so furious.
Guest:I'm like, but no, but I'm on the show.
Guest:And she's like, what scenes?
Guest:And I'm like, well, I'm in the CBS stuff.
Guest:She's like, I don't know what that is.
Guest:And I go, okay, what scenes have you seen?
Guest:She's like, the dog.
Guest:Are you in any of the scenes with the dog?
Guest:And I go, the dog?
Guest:There's no...
Guest:dog on the show and then she's and then i realized she was watching madam secretary which is like a tia leone like cbs hour long where it's like it was about a female president my mom interpreted veep as female president which then became can't win can't win and then she was like and i actually liked that show and i'm like well then did she never watch me she never watched i know she was like she liked madam secretary
Marc:Yeah, when you finally get to a place where you feel like you've left it off.
Marc:I remember my dad once said to me, you ought to talk to Bill Maher.
Marc:He seems to know what's going on.
Marc:I'm like, what about what?
Marc:Like, how do they judge success?
Marc:Well, I remember my mom would always say.
Marc:That generation was Alan Alda.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like you're on a show that everybody watches.
Marc:Not everybody watches anything.
Guest:I will only be successful to my parents if I'm ever on like the Kelly Ripa show.
Guest:Like, I feel like that, like Regis and Kelly, Regis and Kathy Lee.
Guest:But they're like, oh, can you ever get on Kelly Ripa?
Guest:And I'm like, no, they won't book me on that.
Guest:They aggressively will never book me.
Guest:And I've tried so many times just because I know.
Guest:Just to placate your mom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm just like, I want to be on this because my grandma then can show it.
Guest:Everyone can show it.
Guest:And that would be the one thing that would establish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you only get four minutes.
Guest:I don't even need to be funny.
Guest:It's just to be like, you don't think you do.
Guest:You know, you get on there.
Guest:You like, you look nice, but they didn't let you talk.
Guest:Well, and, but to me, all they need to see is that I was on this thing that they liked.
Guest:And that was, and like in a weird way, it's like, they don't, they're not listening.
Guest:They're never listening to.
Guest:the thing you know I did Colbert a few times my mom was you know she locked into that my dad seems to think I've done something so it's okay no my parents are they're definitely supportive and they watch but they never quite understand it you know it's like if you're not the star what are you doing and then like the other things I'm on are too dirty so they don't watch that and then it's like
Guest:Oh, and I was like, my mom didn't have Showtime, so she couldn't watch Black Monday.
Guest:And then she, and I go, you want me, I'll buy you a subscription.
Guest:It's like, nah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, all right.
Guest:All right.
Marc:So what made you, like the last time I talked to you in 2010, let's start the podcast.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:All right.
Marc:It's great catching up.
Marc:Let's get the thing in the can here.
Marc:No, but I mean, it seemed to me that when you talked about the stuff about your stepfather.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was very, I re-listened to it because to me, it was one of these big moments on the podcast.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I...
Marc:misjudged or assumed who you were.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That was, that was like that moment.
Guest:You're like, all right, so I guess like what, you're just a happy guy.
Guest:You're nothing goes wrong.
Guest:I haven't listened back to it.
Guest:Cause I was like, I didn't know, you know, I was like, I just remember it so kind of clearly.
Guest:I was like, it's like kind of like, and it was like, but you did that thing that I feel like is a great trick of an interviewer where you're just like, nah,
Guest:Well, I guess that's it.
Guest:You know, that's it.
Guest:And it's like, you know, it's like, it's like the Columbo thing.
Guest:It's like, one more thing.
Guest:Did you do this?
Guest:And you're like, oh, and then you get like, yeah.
Guest:And yeah, you said that.
Marc:You sound like a pretty well-adjusted guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're like, no, I've got something.
Marc:I'm like, like what?
Marc:And then you're like, there's a fight.
Marc:Your dads are fighting.
Marc:You're punching people.
Marc:You're hitting a guy's head on a fender.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was, you know, I think, and that was the first time
Guest:that I ever really talked about it publicly.
Guest:And it was interesting because, you know, we're talking here and it's casual.
Guest:And if you and I were out, I would have that conversation with you.
Guest:I would talk to you about it.
Guest:But when did people that you know hear that and go like, Jesus Christ.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Because I don't talk about it.
Guest:I never talk about it.
Guest:But if you were to have said that to me privately, I would feel comfortable saying it, but I just don't bring it up.
Guest:And then you did.
Guest:And I went there.
Guest:And it was this weird moment in my life because at that point, it was this like kind of reckoning with, this is a part of my life that I don't talk about.
Guest:I never, I never, I just don't let people in.
Guest:Like maybe a handful of people know this.
Guest:And...
Guest:And why am I not doing that?
Guest:And I was like, oh, because my parents, I don't want my, my parents have created a certain reality that I am also, you know, ascribing to.
Guest:I'm like, they're going to, we don't talk about this.
Marc:Well, that's a big question.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It's also sort of like, you know, out of respect for them, but then you get to a point where you're like, but this is my life.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm an adult.
Guest:I have like, I have this thing.
Guest:And I remember I went home and I was like, oh shit, I gotta, I gotta call my folks because I,
Guest:if they hear it or if someone says that they heard it, it's, you know, it's the first time I've ever really talked about it.
Guest:And that was, you know, you're thanked in my thank you because that honestly started this journey for me.
Guest:And again, I don't want to sound too lofty about this, but to kind of reclaim that or at least own this part of me that I would never really talk about.
Guest:And now look, 14 years later,
Guest:It's when I finally was able to kind of wrestle with it in a way that I think do it in a healthy way.
Guest:In a funny way.
Guest:In a funny way, right?
Guest:Like, I didn't want to write a book that felt like therapy.
Marc:Yeah, when people were like, oh, my God, that poor guy.
Marc:Yeah, no, because, like, the prose is funny.
Marc:And also, like, you know, the act of writing helps you process.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:You know, it was interesting, like, why...
Guest:why I wanted to, I don't even know if I, it was like that podcast that we did started a little bit of this snowball effect where I didn't know it was leading, but I felt like I needed to grasp it.
Guest:And even when I started to write this book, I was like, oh, I'll just write the funny anecdotes.
Guest:I'll just do the funny stuff and it'll be good.
Guest:And I read those back and I was like, ah, it just doesn't, it doesn't feel like book worthy.
Guest:It doesn't feel like this is a book.
Guest:Got to mix it into real shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And this is like that wrestling with this thing of like,
Guest:all right, well, if I'm going to go there, I have to go there.
Guest:And how do I go there?
Guest:And before I tried to sell the book or even had an agent, I just was writing.
Guest:I was like, let me just write.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, let me write to see what I have.
Guest:Did you go to therapy?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I've gone to therapy.
Guest:I started probably in 2005 off and on through now.
Guest:And I think that in the sense that this is not therapy, but I think it's a reflection of therapy.
Marc:Giving you the foundation to talk about it in a way.
Marc:Because, you know, you don't do what I do.
Marc:You know, you started a podcast right after you were online.
Marc:But it's a completely entertainment-driven podcast.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's not about personal stuff.
Guest:We're not just watching movies.
Marc:And also the comedic work you do isn't really.
Guest:No.
Guest:So there's like this whole other area, your private life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think I've, you know, I draw a line on certain things where it's like,
Guest:You know, I don't post pictures of my kids online.
Guest:I try to keep my relationships, you know, like in that way, sort of private.
Guest:But there was something really interesting about telling this story because I also felt like when I became a parent...
Guest:it completely recontextualized my own childhood.
Guest:Because I was like, oh, I can look at this.
Guest:Even when I was on your show, I could tell you those stories, but I see it completely differently now.
Guest:It's the same story, same thing.
Guest:But you had no kids.
Guest:Yeah, no kids.
Guest:And once you... I think...
Guest:For me, having kids put me in the position of being a parent and thinking about what if I was in this situation as a parent?
Guest:I saw this happen to my kid.
Guest:What would I do?
Guest:And in a weird way, I think it brought up a lot of anger for me for the first time because I think I was so like, oh, my parents did the best they can.
Guest:And I love my parents.
Guest:I have a great relationship with them.
Guest:Not the stepdad.
Guest:Not the stepdad, yeah, no.
Guest:But I was...
Guest:I think I wasn't looking at it or was I was kind of doing the thing that my parents do.
Guest:And I don't know if you can identify with this, but it's like there's this mentality of if you're, you know, you're fine.
Guest:It's you know, nothing's broken.
Guest:You're not dead.
Guest:You're fine.
Guest:Don't obsess over it.
Marc:Which just means in other words, like somehow you got through it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you're not a mess.
Guest:This man, I had a home invasion when I was a young kid.
Guest:This guy, like my stepfather owed money to this guy.
Guest:This guy came, thought my stepfather was home.
Guest:And I told him that he wasn't and then proceeded to kind of try to break in to my house.
Guest:And, you know, it heightens to this point where he's coming through the window and I have this like wooden ninja sword that I had from a Halloween costume.
Guest:And I'm just fucking,
Oh.
Guest:fighting this guy who's kind of like Winnie the Pooh-ing through my window because he's like half in, half out.
Guest:I'm like, ah, and I'm just slapping him.
Guest:And he leaves.
Guest:And my mom couldn't come home.
Guest:My mom was at work.
Guest:And so then the cops come, but he's already left.
Guest:And I'm left alone in this house for the rest of the day, kind of frightened out of my fucking mind.
Guest:I never understood.
Guest:This is home invasion, literally.
Guest:And I don't know what to do.
Guest:And I'm telling my parents this.
Guest:And they're like, oh.
Guest:well, but you're okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's fine.
Guest:And they knew the guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, he just needed the money back, you know?
Guest:And it's like, but that, that idea of like, when you're forcing yourself not to process anything, like, you know, my kids now, I try to do very, very much.
Guest:I try to process with them.
Guest:Like, even if I think it's ridiculous, we, we last night talked for 45 minutes with my kids.
Guest:thought that they might be killed by an assassin.
Guest:Like, you know, like they saw this Mr. Beast video, Mr. Beast, this YouTube guy.
Guest:And he's like, I hired an assassin to track me down.
Guest:And they said to me, what's an assassin, dad?
Guest:And I was like, oh, it's like somebody you hire to kill somebody.
Guest:Shouldn't have said it so cavalierly.
Guest:He didn't realize what I was saying.
Guest:And as they're going to bed, my youngest son is like, um, could an assassin kill me?
Guest:And I was like, and I go, no.
Guest:And then my older son's like, no, not unless someone hired him to kill you.
Guest:And I was like, no, no, no.
Guest:And then it's like, and you know, there's a very simple way of being like, don't worry about it.
Guest:There's no such, you know, you're not going to be assassinated.
Guest:But what I think I realized too is being a dad, and this is obviously a more ridiculous situation, but it was like,
Guest:You got to talk them through it because there's something underneath the assassin too, right?
Marc:But also there has to be a general, you know, provide safety.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:It can't just be, don't worry about it.
Guest:And also you weren't in a safe situation.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:They are.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:But you still have to like engage in that, within that whole time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I was...
Guest:in a way not allowed to ever process it.
Guest:And it's so much so that when we got out of that situation, it's like, and that's done, and we've put that away, and we're not gonna talk about it.
Guest:I look through pictures, there's no pictures of my stepdad.
Guest:I can't find a single picture of him.
Guest:No one ever brings him up.
Guest:It's wild how removed it is.
Guest:And I think when I was writing the book,
Guest:about this time, you get in this zone where you're like, did this happen this way?
Guest:Was this the right thing?
Guest:And you start to question it because it's so clear to me, but no one else.
Guest:Were the pictures thrown out?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I seriously don't know.
Guest:Through your mom's pictures?
Guest:I don't even know if my mom keeps her.
Guest:I have my pictures.
Guest:I have tons of pictures.
Guest:I have two pictures of them.
Guest:I found two pictures.
Guest:One in the background.
Guest:And maybe as a kid, I threw them out.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know what I did there.
Guest:Because that's blocked out on some level.
Guest:But I, you know, as I'm like, you know, I'm just this idea of what's in my head.
Guest:So I was back in Long Island and it was towards the end of writing the book.
Guest:I'm like, I'm going to drive by my house.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I started driving by myself.
Guest:my house and going down and I started to feel this thing where it's like I haven't I've never felt this you know and like and I'm dealing with it and I you know and I think oh I'm over this stuff but you start to like I'm everything is the same and that was the weird thing my area is the same and if anything it's shittier than I remember it like I remember it a little bit better and like I once showed a picture of my house to a friend and they're like oh you live in like a trailer park and I'm like oh no I don't have a trailer park it was like it was nice and I was like you know and and I go down this block that we lived on yeah
Guest:And there's the house.
Guest:It's owned by a different person.
Guest:Slight differences.
Guest:But the one thing that stuck out to me was like, I talk about this bench.
Guest:I remember this one bench.
Guest:And it was broken.
Guest:And I see that bench fucking on the side of my house, still broken, like in a little bit of a trash heap.
Guest:But that same fucking bench.
Guest:And this is like, I haven't been back to the house in, I mean, honestly, probably like 30 plus years.
Guest:And that fucking bench was there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like, everything, it was like, yes, this is all, like, your memory of this is right, this thing, and you start to see all these things, and it's like, oh, yes, the way that those doors open, that way that the, and I got freaked out.
Guest:I know the person wasn't there, you know, my stepfather wasn't in the house, and then I drove down the block to go to this 7-Eleven where these dudes tried to fucking steal my bike.
Guest:These two adult, or three adult men, like, thought I stole their son's bike, and they started, like, chasing me around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Go back to that 7-Eleven.
Guest:There's that fucking bike stand where I had my bike.
Guest:And I'm in that.
Guest:And I go back in that 7-Eleven.
Guest:And I go in there.
Guest:And there's a guy who looks like this guy wearing camo pants, knife on his belt, a shirt with the Italian flag on it, and yelling about Biden in this 7-Eleven.
Guest:I'm like, oh, this is my... This world has not changed.
Guest:It has been in this little ecosystem that I grew up in.
Guest:And that was like...
Guest:You know, it's interesting because I tried very hard when I wrote this book to do two things, which is like, it's my stories.
Guest:I'm not talking, I didn't talk to anybody else.
Guest:I didn't let anybody read it until it was, my wife is the only one who read it before it went out.
Guest:And I really didn't want to, I was respectful of my parents because I can tell,
Guest:If it was you and me privately, I would tell you, I think this about this and I think that about this.
Guest:And here's a little backstory.
Guest:I'm like, I'm not telling the backstory of my parents.
Guest:I was like, cause I was like, I'm just going to tell the story of me.
Guest:And that was the way that I think I came to a satisfying like middle ground.
Guest:It's my story, their characters in it.
Guest:I may characterize them in a way that they agree with or they don't, but I'm not trying to tell their, I'm not telling their story.
Guest:And that actually has given me some solace.
Guest:And then I gave them the book and two weeks ago,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:And, you know, and I'm like, because I didn't want him to read the book and then ask me to make changes.
Guest:I wouldn't want to do that.
Guest:And it was interesting to see their reactions.
Marc:What were they?
Marc:Well, my mom... Was there stuff in there like, we didn't know that?
Marc:No.
Guest:They knew everything.
Guest:And that's the thing, but they wouldn't... But seeing it in black and white, I think is different, right?
Guest:Yeah, true.
Guest:And seeing it through my eyes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was funny because my mom's reaction was...
Guest:I wish you would have said X, Y, and Z. I wish you went deeper.
Guest:I wish you told this story and that and this.
Guest:And I'm like, well, that's not my story to tell.
Guest:I mean, that's your story.
Guest:And I think my mom was looking at it a little bit in a way of...
Guest:I'm going to finally tell the truth, and I'm going to burn these people who got me.
Guest:And I think that that was the thing I was trying to be aware of, too.
Guest:This is not a burn book.
Guest:I'm not trying to roast anybody.
Guest:Even Hunter, this guy who's my stepfather, I'm not trying to roast that guy.
Guest:I'm trying to be like...
Guest:I, I'm just talking about him.
Guest:He's a character in this thing.
Guest:And my, and, and then my, and my dad had an interesting reaction because I gave him the book and, and he, you know, and, and he wrote, I, I, as he was leaving my house,
Guest:to go on a plane to go back to New York.
Guest:I said, here, here's a book.
Guest:So I knew he was going to read it on the plane.
Guest:And the plane lands, and he sends me a text, and he's like, I really love the book, and I want to talk to you about this thing.
Guest:And I go, great.
Guest:And
Guest:We have not talked yet, but he sent me a text, which made me laugh because I was like, it's still to a certain extent what I'm talking about here.
Guest:It's like, there wasn't a phone call to be like, hey, I, you know, I want to like, but I can also tell he's wrestling with stuff right now because...
Guest:He sends me texts about basketball nonstop.
Guest:I haven't texted my dad about basketball.
Guest:I don't know, whatever.
Guest:But now every day, twice or three times a day, we're talking about basketball.
Guest:Basketball, basketball.
Guest:And I'm like, okay, he's working through something now too.
Guest:And we will sit down and talk.
Guest:I said to him, I was like, let me just finish this press tour.
Guest:I want to be done with...
Guest:we can, I want to have that conversation.
Guest:I just can't, I'm already talking about this stuff and it's, it's crazy because you're selling a part of your life in a weird way.
Guest:And it's like, and I, and, and it's emotional.
Guest:It's hard.
Guest:And I've talked to some people and, and it's, there's emotions that everyone kind of brings to it.
Guest:And, uh, I was like, I just, can we just give, give me like two more weeks and then we'll, we'll talk.
Marc:So you'll find out.
Guest:We'll see.
Guest:But I did talk to my dad multiple times.
Guest:And I think they wonder if,
Guest:In a weird way, putting it in black and white was easier because I think when you talk to somebody and you say, like, you hurt me or you weren't there for me, you get defensive immediately, right?
Guest:This idea of like, oh, no, no, but hold on, I got it.
Guest:And it's like, it's just there in print and you have to just...
Marc:And it's done.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like the thing about it is it's like, you know, whatever their story is or whatever their reaction is, it's not going to make it into print.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:And, you know, maybe that will be another part of this story, but that's the story that it is now.
Guest:And it's like part of it is in many respects, like I can't,
Guest:I don't need anything from my parents.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, I like, I love them.
Guest:I have a great relationship with them, but I don't need, like, they're not going to provide any more closure for me.
Guest:I think you have to do that work yourself.
Marc:I know that's the lifetime work.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And anytime you feel that weird, you know, vacuum of insecurity, it's, it's, it's, it's where they drop the ball and you've got to step in.
Guest:I've had this vision.
Guest:I read this book, you know, I've read books.
Guest:I do therapy.
Guest:I've done a lot of, you know, whatever, some LA stuff.
Guest:And, uh,
Guest:the image that always comes back to me, and I think about it all the time now, is when we're reacting in a way that is intense, or you get into a fight with somebody, and you're like, oh, why did I get so mad like that?
Guest:I think of this version of, like, that is...
Guest:the little version of you, like this little, you know, the person and you are kind of standing behind that person.
Guest:And I always think I have to like, when I'm in that moment, I have to like take that little person and put them behind me and stand in front of me.
Guest:I'm an adult now.
Guest:I get this.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That person, like if you're still having the emotional reaction of anger and,
Marc:as being emotionally 11.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's now coming out of a 50-year-old.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's chaotic.
Marc:And it's scary.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:My anger is really kind of diminished.
Marc:I tend to cry more than yell.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Which is kind of interesting.
Guest:I couldn't cry for years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was interesting.
Guest:I used to cry a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then there was like this period of time where it just like...
Guest:it felt too vulnerable to cry.
Guest:And now trying to, and again, being a parent, going through certain things, you start to like, it kind of like, it kind of like just kickstarted those emotions in a good way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I think there's a thing, and maybe you had this one, I only had like an on-off switch.
Guest:It was like anger, not angry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, or almost like passive anger,
Guest:Right, but I didn't have control of the switch a lot.
Guest:Neither did I. And now I feel like, if anything, I have a dial.
Guest:Sometimes it's going to go to 10.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:I'm not saying I'm like, oh, I'm perfect.
Guest:But at least I understand that I can go to a 2, I can go to a 4, I can go to an 8.
Guest:I can ride a dial.
Guest:But I didn't have that control.
Guest:It would just be...
Guest:was fucking ferocious and would come out in against people come out my mentally come out against you know like i wouldn't even vocalize it but i'd be fucking mad and you know you get this thing that's like i don't want to be taken advantage of i don't want to be lied to i don't want to be this and and that kind of shit it that i think has been the interesting thing for me is and still wrestling with all of that like how do you be how are you present how are you active how are you a person that is true to yourself and
Guest:And if part of that truth is anger, that's okay, too.
Guest:It's like, you know, I think when I started dating my wife, it was an experiment for me to do something different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I felt like I was too passive in relationships.
Guest:I felt like I was, like, just... So you just, the first date, you yelled at her?
Guest:I was like, get the fuck out of here.
Guest:But you know what it was?
Guest:Like, I don't know if you felt like this.
Guest:You're maybe different than me, you know?
Guest:But my thing with relationships early on was, like, I just don't want to rock the boat.
Guest:Maybe that's the thing about coming up in a...
Guest:in a chaos.
Guest:It was like, I don't want to be responsible.
Guest:I'm actually going to try to calm everybody, calm it all down.
Guest:And so if, you know, you want to go to this place, great.
Guest:I'll go to that place.
Guest:You know, if you, it could be any little bit, not even just like a fight.
Marc:I'm more like that now because,
Marc:Because I want to make compromises.
Marc:But initially, I was always threatened by people's emotions in terms of, you know, I always felt like, are you fucking with me?
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, are you manipulating me?
Marc:What the fuck does that mean?
Guest:What are you talking about?
Guest:I remember laying in bed with a girl I was dating for a while, and she said, I love you.
Guest:And I was like, no, you don't.
Guest:And it wasn't like, and it wasn't even like, it was just like, of course she doesn't.
Guest:Yeah, there's no way.
Guest:Yeah, I've used that line.
Guest:It's not a great line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it's terrible.
Guest:It's a terrible lie.
Guest:But, you know, I don't know if I told you this, but this is the moment that, like, opened it up for me.
Guest:Like, that started me to even be able to talk about it on your show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was dating this girl, and it was going bad.
Guest:And we decided, let's go to couples therapy.
Guest:Which, I gotta say, I think when you're dating and you're going to couples therapy...
Guest:I'm like, what are we trying to do here?
Marc:Well, I did a joke once where I think that a good second date is couples.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Maybe get ahead of it.
Guest:Like just get ahead of it right away.
Guest:So we, you know, but it's not going well.
Guest:And it's like, what are we waiting for from this person to like fix it?
Guest:It's like, it's not, it's, it's going South and it went South.
Guest:And, uh, and she left and the therapist said to me, she's like, would, would you want to stay?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was against therapy because when I was younger, we had a therapist, a family therapist.
Guest:We brought Hunter and everyone was there.
Guest:And, you know, she told us all, like, if he does this again, I'm going to call people.
Guest:We're going to take care of it.
Guest:You know, a week passes.
Guest:He does it again, acts up again to tell her.
Guest:And she's like, OK, one more time.
Guest:You know, and it's like, fuck therapy.
Guest:This is bullshit.
Guest:and they're not keeping me safe yeah they're not they're not doing anything so but i stayed with this woman and i thought there was like this this therapist and i thought like in a way it's my passivity going like if i stay then she's going to actually know that i was like the better person right relationship you know i'm willing to do the work she wasn't willing to do the work and and you know when we started talking it started off like that just me trying to prove to her like just so you know i was yeah yeah uh
Guest:And she, in the middle of a session, she like from her, like under her chair pulls out this yellow wiffle ball bat.
Guest:And I'm, and I don't know what's going on.
Guest:And she's like, here, beat up that couch.
Guest:I want you to hit that couch.
Guest:I want you to like scream at that couch.
Guest:And I'm already doing comedy at this point.
Guest:And I'm like, no, I'm not fucking hit a couch.
Guest:I feel like it's stupid.
Guest:I'm not going to, you know, I'm like, I'm mad.
Guest:I'm, you know, and, and, but I'm like, she's like, no, keep on doing it.
Guest:Keep on doing it.
Guest:And it was this moment.
Guest:You got a yes and, Paul.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:But you know what, like these moments, and this is some of the best things I've done in life have been when I acknowledge if I was to see someone doing this or if I heard the story, I would make fun of this person.
Guest:Right, sure.
Guest:But I have to also be like, you know what, just fucking do it.
Guest:and I have to like kind of separate the two versions of myself I did this thing recently and I was like if I saw this I would be making but the minute I gave over to it it was worthwhile because I think that's an automatic defensive system that we have as comedians like we're just going to be like I'm not going to be vulnerable yeah and so I'm using that fucking bat
Guest:And it's not really working because I'm not committing to it.
Guest:But, but she saw something that I never saw myself, which was like, I was holding in anger.
Guest:Cause I basically went from being a super angry person to, I have no anger.
Guest:I'm shutting it off and that's it.
Guest:And then occasionally I would rage, but it would be like, it would be like a, it would almost be like going on a bender.
Guest:It's like, I don't drink anymore, but now I buy it.
Guest:And she saw that, that thing.
Guest:And that's what she wanted me to do.
Guest:Like be angry at this fucking bat.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it took a long time for me to start to trust that I could even be a little bit angry or like even let that out.
Guest:And that was like the beginning of, I think like, and I don't, I wouldn't know it then.
Guest:And I think I look back on it now and go, I think that was the beginning of like the healing process.
Guest:She did good.
Guest:She did good.
Guest:And you talk about the anger in the book.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:I talk about the anger a lot.
Guest:Cause it's like, that was the thing.
Guest:I talk about this idea of like being the Hulk because when I got a little bit older with Hunter, my stepfather, I would,
Guest:I realized I could fight back.
Guest:And then when you realize you could fight back, I had some power.
Guest:But then what I also did was open myself up to fucking harder fights.
Guest:You know, like it was like now, like before it was like he would, I call mercy, it would be over, right?
Guest:And now it was like, okay, you're going to throw that at my head.
Guest:I'm going to fucking throw this at you.
Guest:And I'm going to throw you into this wall.
Guest:And we're both...
Guest:I remember, like, just wanting to rip his hair plugs out.
Guest:I knew he had hair plugs.
Guest:I was like, you know, and I was just always trying to grab at those, you know?
Guest:It was violent, and it was intense.
Guest:But what happened was, then if someone...
Guest:did something like this, and we talked about that during the show, like, where I felt slighted.
Guest:I felt, you know, at all disregarded.
Guest:I'd fucking go nuts and beat, you know, fucking pummel kid's face into a fender.
Guest:And that was this middle ground of going, oh, I don't want to be this man.
Guest:I'm getting to be this man.
Guest:I was like, literally, a kid came over to my house to fight me.
Guest:It's like, hey, come kick your ass.
Guest:I'll see you in two hours.
Guest:And I'm like, all right.
Guest:And, you know, and, you know, and like this kid came to my house and we're walking out to the back.
Guest:And I just like, I really had this moment where I was like, the fuck am I doing?
Guest:I'm like, I'm like, I'm a senior in high school being ready to fight behind in the woods behind my house.
Guest:And I saw myself as that guy, as this guy, because Hunter would come home with a fucking arm and a sling and fighting on this thing.
Guest:And I realized in that moment, I could deescalate it.
Guest:I was like, I just apologized.
Guest:I'm like, hey, man, I'm sorry.
Guest:And I almost started to cry.
Guest:And saying, I'm sorry.
Guest:And I think he thinks like, oh, this fucking pussy is crying.
Guest:But it was like a release of like, I'm calling mercy again.
Guest:So then in a weird way, I'm going back to like a child who's like letting somebody win.
Guest:And I didn't know how to balance it.
Guest:And then from that moment on, I was like, I'm shutting it off.
Guest:I'm not going to be this person.
Guest:I'm going to be a nice guy.
Guest:I'm not going to be angry.
Guest:And that also is not good.
Guest:I mean, it's not good to be stepped on or passive or you're just not – you shut off a part of yourself.
Guest:Yeah, but sometimes it's self-protection, you know.
Marc:And, you know, if you cause enough pain, you know, you at least know you don't want to do that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And so it's tricky to sort of, you know, process the anger or the sadness or whatever it is.
Marc:But, you know, really, if you're an angry person, usually –
Marc:you get to a point where you like you've caused pain.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you've got to not do that.
Guest:Well, and I think you're right.
Guest:So it's like, how do you do it?
Guest:And it's like, and I didn't have the tools to know any other way than just not do it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which is like, which is not healing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's a good start.
Guest:Right, it's something.
Guest:It's like I'm putting it in a box.
Marc:I think, but also it's making me wonder what I've done with mine because the other night I had a conversation with my opener about somebody who I had strong opinions about that were deep.
Marc:They weren't just sort of, I don't like that person's work.
Marc:I felt that this person was a toxic, fucked up person.
Marc:And my tone changed to the point where the person I was talking to was like, whoa, wow.
Marc:And I'm like, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and I tried, I said, I want to talk about that person.
Marc:She's like, why?
Marc:And then I'm like, I just, and then it just came up and it was like, wow, that guy's still in there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, and look, sometimes he comes out on stage.
Guest:I mean, like I've had those moments too.
Guest:Like I can, I've done scenes where I'm like, I can tap in, like tap into that because it's there, you know, it's like, but it used to feel like,
Guest:it was right under the surface.
Guest:Now I'm like, I have that thing, but yeah, it comes up.
Guest:And that's what I'm saying.
Guest:I'm like, I'm not saying it's gone, but it's, I understand levels to it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, and also, you know, where it's coming from and you don't have to, you don't have to react as the kid.
Marc:Do you have trouble apologizing?
Guest:No, not really.
Guest:I couldn't apologize for.
Guest:Well, it depends.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Cause like, for me, it was like, if I apologized,
Guest:I'm saying, you're right, I hurt you.
Guest:And again, that's like, for me, like being this thing of like, I'm, now I have no problem apologizing, but for a long time, I didn't want to apologize, because if I apologize, I'm admitting that I fucked up, and I've hurt you, and I've upset the balance, and I didn't want to, I never mean to do that, I didn't want to hurt you, I didn't want, you know, it's like, you made me, or this, you know, it's like, it's a weird thing.
Marc:I think when you're sober, and you do a little bit of work, you can kind of apologize in a way that it's really just taking responsibility.
Marc:Right.
Marc:For, you know, what may or may not have happened.
Marc:It could just be in your fucking head.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, a lot of times you apologize to people who are like, I didn't know what you're talking about.
Guest:And I also think what I learned with apologies, too, is like, who cares?
Guest:There's no right or wrong.
Guest:Like, if you say, hey, man, you fucking hurt my feelings.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't tell you, no, you're wrong.
Guest:Like, if your feelings are hurt, even if you misinterpreted what I said or did.
Guest:But it was like, I felt so...
Guest:Like, I felt like that was also painting me as a bad person.
Guest:Like, if I hurt your feelings, I made a mistake.
Guest:Avoiding that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:So it's like, there's all these, like, little things.
Guest:And so I feel like I'm very apologetic with my kids.
Guest:You know, I make mistakes with my kids all the time.
Guest:But, like...
Guest:I'm going to sit there and be like, hey, I'm so sorry I did that to you.
Guest:I didn't mean to do that to you.
Guest:And that's wrong.
Guest:And I think it's like we start to have this more open dialogue.
Marc:No, it's important.
Marc:You know, like I had a thing with a guy who I was friends with and he just shut me out.
Marc:And, you know, he had this idea about something and he just wouldn't talk to me.
Marc:And it was driving me nuts.
Marc:I'm like, you know, at least just give me the opportunity.
Marc:Right.
Marc:To take responsibility for something or or or or at least know what the hell you're thinking about.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then like it just got you know we ended up at the same party and you know and he's like you want to know and then he laid it out and I'm like well first of all that thing you're thinking happened that didn't happen.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It was not a real thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But if you still feel the way you feel, I get it.
Marc:And I appreciate you telling me that.
Marc:And I'm sorry.
Marc:And I got emotional.
Marc:I was tearing up and shit because, you know, we were friends.
Marc:And it was just sort of like it's also that moment in in contrition or knowing what's going on where you realize you have no control.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Over other people.
Marc:And you just have to take the hit.
Right.
Guest:Yeah, and it's, you know, it's better.
Guest:Actually, you release stuff more by just, yeah, taking the hit, being there, having that conversation, because they also think so much of this shit happens in darkness, right?
Guest:Like, you don't, it's like, oh, yeah.
Guest:In your brain.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A, they're not thinking it, it didn't happen, or it did happen, and you're not going to talk to that person directly.
Guest:And then it becomes this, like, weird thing where it just starts to metastasize.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you're like, and then it's like, I don't talk to that person.
Guest:Fuck that person.
Guest:It's like, because it's a, you've built a inner relationship of fighting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's, I try to catch myself in it and, you know, and then look, and there will always be a person or a thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or these things that just kind of sneak up and, and get you, but you know, it's like,
Guest:But I think it's like a lifelong process.
Marc:It's also like contrary action and not hitting send and all that shit.
Marc:Pause.
Marc:Yeah, pause.
Guest:My wife...
Guest:walks away a lot.
Guest:And it's for her mental health to be like, I need to stop this.
Guest:And I have a hard time because I think that that helps.
Guest:Yeah, it's the worst.
Guest:It's like, what are you talking about?
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like, I want to continue.
Guest:And it's like, and in the light of day, like after like an hour, you're like, oh yeah, just let, yeah, let's call.
Guest:Why was I intent on finishing it?
Guest:Right?
Guest:Like it's like, but it is this thing of like, I want to win or I want to, you know, and it's like, and that's the,
Guest:And it's like, and I still, I will fall into that trap and I will, you know, make that mistake and I'm not infallible in that at all.
Guest:But I also think too, it's like, I had my, uh, my friend, he was like, why, why, why you go to therapy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, what do you mean?
Guest:He's like, you go to therapy, you're not gonna be funny.
Guest:And I'm like, no, that's not, I don't think how it works in a weird way.
Guest:I think when you do work on yourself, you actually are more well-rounded.
Guest:You understand yourself.
Guest:So you can actually bring more of yourself.
Guest:I mean, I think about that monologue that you did in sort of trust.
Guest:And I'm like, it's a beautiful, it's beautiful.
Guest:You can't take your eyes off it, you know, but that's also informed by, I think your life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, it's like, it's, it's something that is,
Guest:that you can touch, but if you didn't go to certain places or do certain things, you don't know if you could have done that justice in that same way.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:No, no, totally.
Marc:It was like, it was, you know, it wasn't my life, but it was parts of it.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:And I knew the life I was talking about.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'd seen enough of that life and experienced enough with what I was talking about in terms of my own dreams or whatever.
Marc:Yeah, that was an interesting thing, that monologue.
Guest:I think that those are the moments that...
Guest:we all get into and we connect with and it's way more interesting on a certain level you know for people who don't know this and like I this is now going to be out and this is now going to be part of I don't own this anymore right it's like it is now released it I've released it and it's like and people say oh is it cathartic I'm like it's not cathartic because I've made peace with it now it's in a book but now everybody will know it but it is interesting now like it's like I'm sharing this thing
Guest:That now people or whoever reads it will have this thing, you know, that will have this knowledge about me, you know, and that's and that's like a little bit scary.
Guest:But at the same time, it's the stuff that I know I respond to and it could be anything.
Guest:It could be that monologue.
Guest:Go ahead.
Marc:But, yeah, but the thing about it is, like, you mixed it up.
Marc:You mix it up well.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So, you know, we're talking seriously about anger, and you talk about, you know, the stepfather.
Marc:You talk about ADHD.
Marc:And you talk about, you know, struggles in, you know, relationship.
Marc:But there's, like, that thing that happened to you in Times Square.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The exact same thing happened to me.
Marc:Oh, my gosh.
Marc:I love that.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Marc:That, like, you know, I used to go to my grandmother's, take the bus in from Jersey to Port Authority when I was, like, 13.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:you know and just like can we drink i remember going in there when i was in high school i brought my buddy and we've got platform shoes we're just gonna go have a beer yeah somewhere and it was so ridiculous because we just end up at like hamburger harry's or whatever the fucking place was you know and they served us like we did it and then you end up and then some guy came up to us and tried to scam us in times square like i'll show it was about guitars you want you want to buy a guitar i said we were looking at guitar shops and we walked we followed this guy for a while and like
Marc:We got to go.
Guest:Yeah, these are moments.
Guest:And that's true.
Guest:That moment of being in 42nd Street and thinking you're an adult, and then also realizing when you look back, oh, we were kids.
Guest:We weren't fooling anyone.
Guest:I actually found my fake ID from that day that I had, and I was looking at it, and I was like, oh, no one thought we were twins.
Guest:This is hilarious.
Marc:And then going into the sex club, that was great.
Marc:And also the thing about that first time you saw UCB.
Guest:I mean, there's a lot of... It's not all heavy.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:And that's the intention.
Guest:That's the joyful recollections of trauma.
Guest:We are talking about the heavier stuff.
Guest:It is, to me, what I wanted to do is tell an entertaining book.
Guest:That's the number one thing.
Guest:It's like a tightrope walk on a tightrope.
Guest:I'm going to tell something real.
Guest:I'm not going to undercut that thing.
Guest:But it's also going to be fun to read.
Guest:Like I said, it's not therapy.
Guest:It's fun.
Guest:This is like a book that has...
Guest:Insane fun stories.
Guest:And it has a connective tissue to it, but it's not like, it's not a bummer.
Guest:It's not like Angela's ashes.
Guest:No, not.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You did a great job, buddy.
Guest:You're, you're lovely to say it.
Guest:And I appreciate you having me back on, but I did.
Guest:It was interesting in, in going back to just think about this was like a, you and the show 10 years or 14 years ago was a pivotal moment in just the,
Guest:Starting to talk about it in a way that was like, oh, I can talk about this.
Marc:I have a life.
Marc:I have a life.
Marc:I can talk about it.
Marc:Well, I'm glad I helped out.
Marc:And then we started podcasts pretty soon after.
Marc:And now we've been in this game.
Marc:We were some of the original modern podcasters.
Guest:I always say that.
Guest:You are the OG.
Guest:We've been doing, how did this get made, for 14 years.
Guest:Dude, it's fucking nuts.
Guest:It's nuts.
Guest:And I love it.
Guest:And I mean, how do you feel?
Guest:800 episodes in.
Guest:I was episode 127.
Guest:This is what, 850 now?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:We're like 1,600.
Guest:Wait.
Guest:We do two a week.
Guest:1,600.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's crazy.
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:Well, you know what?
Marc:The one thing we couldn't have imagined, and certainly weren't we.
Marc:I don't know that we were really gunning for it, but it worked out, buddy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I mean, and that's the thing.
Guest:People are like, well, how do I get into podcasts?
Guest:I'm like, when I started this thing, there was no, you had to tell people what a podcast was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was no real way to make money.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The first seven years, we didn't make money.
Marc:And it was just crazy.
Marc:And the world grew around us.
Marc:And now we've made a monster.
Guest:And it's hilarious to watch people.
Marc:Are you still all audio or you do video?
Guest:audio and i appreciate that's what i appreciate about you guys like i'm like i love it because it's like i think it's also more personal it's better i like it i like it in my ear it's like you find the people you want to listen to it's like and it's it's it was great you can do other things yeah yeah no well that's good man no i love it and uh and i love that you're having some people back on it joe mandy was great to have back on so far yeah um but yeah it's been like i mean
Guest:It's it's wild.
Guest:And, you know, I think about you all the time because you were the you had Obama in your garage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And now and now all of a sudden, you know, Biden's on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fucking Howard Stern and all this other stuff.
Guest:You know, it's like it's a while.
Guest:It's wild.
Guest:But like those things like that, I do believe is the reason why.
Guest:Biden goes on.
Marc:It was because, you know, we were there and there were podcasters before me and you and, and there were people around, but it was still not normalized in any way.
Marc:Most older people and most people in general was not part of their regular listening.
Marc:They didn't know how to get it.
Marc:And then this thing built up around us.
Marc:And now you look around and like, I don't, I'm not resentful.
Marc:I'm grateful that it worked out for me, but there is part of me that's sort of like, I'm kind of responsible.
Guest:Well, you have to be in that podcast hall of fame.
Guest:You got to be in that Mount Rushmore of the thing.
Guest:We are.
Guest:Look, just by the fact of doing it more than a decade, I think anyone who can do that, because it's like during the pandemic, everyone who started the podcast, and it's like I said to people, when people ask me, like, what do you do?
Guest:I'm like, well, I just said like this, just do something
Guest:that you want to do more of.
Guest:Because truly, in success, the only thing that's going to happen is more.
Guest:Do more podcasts.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:They come and go.
Marc:If there was some... If digital garbage was visible...
Marc:It would be its own planet.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's so... But I don't know what people expect.
Guest:Like, I did seven episodes and I'm not Joe Rogan, so fuck it.
Marc:And now it's impossible to break in.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And even the things that you think are breaking through are not.
Marc:No.
Guest:Because people put money in them now.
Guest:And the other thing, too, is you have to then...
Guest:Tell everybody, hey, slot out one of those things that you listen to.
Guest:Like, all right, I listen to two Marins a week.
Guest:I listen to this.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah, how much time do people have?
Guest:It's like, which one am I going to knock out?
Guest:And if you put in this much time, it's like, well, I want to spend time with my friends, my ear friends.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and that's it.
Guest:It's hard to find a slot on the mantle.
Marc:Yeah, and everybody's fighting for the same heads.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And people only have a certain amount of time.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But we're doing all right.
Marc:Yeah, we do it.
Marc:All right.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:Thanks.
Marc:Good talking to you.
Marc:You too.
You too.
Marc:Well, that's it.
Marc:I'm glad he's doing better and still very much a great guy.
Marc:I like Paul, and I thought that was a good talk.
Marc:His book, Joyful Recollections of Trauma, is available now.
Marc:His podcasts are available wherever you get podcasts.
Marc:Those would be How Did This Get Made and Unspooled.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:For you full Marin subscribers, you'll get more of my conversation with Paul Scheer tomorrow.
Marc:Here's a little preview.
Guest:I get the thing where people assume that I am Andre from the league sometimes, you know, so they'll come up and they'll yell, they'll yell things that are sometimes inappropriate.
Guest:Like there is a joke on the show where my character was like, it was, there was a porn based on my character called like Andre, no dick or something like that.
Guest:And people come up like that.
Guest:Hey, doctor, no dick.
Guest:But I'm also with my kids.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, that's weird.
Guest:You know, you know, like I'm like, the kids are like, what's a dick?
Marc:You know, I'm like, OK, well, that's up tomorrow for full Marin subscribers.
Marc:You can get bonus episodes twice a week, plus every episode of WTF ad free.
Marc:Just go to the link in the episode description to sign up or go to WTF pod dot com and click on WTF plus.
Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.
Marc:Here's some guitar I just did.
Thank you.
.
.
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.