Episode 155 - Dino Stamatopoulos
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:How?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuckanots?
Marc:What the fuckanistas?
Marc:What the fuckheads?
Marc:I don't like that one.
Marc:What the fuckaricans?
Marc:Got a lot of mileage out of that.
Marc:I like that.
Marc:That's the newest one.
Marc:I think I'm going to cut the list off there.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:I am Marc Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you so much for listening.
Marc:I don't know if any of you remember, but I hipped you to some stuff last week.
Marc:I just want to make it clear that the WTF app is free for the month of March.
Marc:And once you get it, you can upgrade and get every past episode.
Marc:A lot of people have been emailing, asking about that.
Marc:How can we get the old ones?
Marc:Well, this is one way.
Marc:And another way is you can get every past episode streaming on your desktop with the WTF premium account.
Marc:And all you got to do for that is go to WTFPod.com, click Get the Podcast, no iTunes, and it'll take you to the page.
Marc:We're also making those individual episodes available.
Marc:Slowly, take some time to get them up there because we got to do a little rejiggering.
Marc:But you can go to WTFPodShop.com or you can search WTF Premium on iTunes.
Marc:We've got all the special premium live episodes there.
Marc:We've got the Robin Williams there and the two-part Carlos Mencia one.
Marc:Today's show, though,
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:Dino Stamatopoulos, are you fucking kidding me?
Marc:Yeah, I can't tell you how fucking excited I was to talk to this guy.
Marc:I've known this guy a bit for a long time.
Marc:He's one of the most interesting comedy writers out there.
Marc:He's notorious.
Marc:He's one of the original writers on the Conan O'Brien show.
Marc:He used to do work with Bob and Dave.
Marc:He did Moral Oral on Adult Swim.
Marc:But he's just an infamous character, and I am thrilled to talk to him.
Marc:I'm having a hard time accepting things out of my control.
Marc:I'm having a hard time being patient with people.
Marc:I'm having a hard time staying in place, man.
Marc:Nothing is fucking... Everything's taking too much time.
Marc:Everything is fucking designed to inconvenience me somehow.
Marc:I've had some horrible mishaps on airplanes completely out of my control.
Marc:I mean, it almost became ludicrous.
Marc:Like a comedy of errors, the amount of air travel...
Marc:Yeah, fuck ups that I've had to deal with.
Marc:And I know, look, I travel a lot and I know I've got no control over this.
Marc:All you can do is freak out, try to get on another plane, another airline.
Marc:But once those are depleted, what are you going to do?
Marc:I was on my way to Seattle.
Marc:On Alaska Airlines.
Marc:And this is after two weeks of just complete airline fucking chaos for me.
Marc:Vomit on the plane, changing planes, missing planes because of snow, taking cabs at 3 in the morning and get a plane at 6 in the morning.
Marc:Just disastrous.
Marc:But again, luxury problem.
Marc:I'm going to gigs.
Marc:I want to make the gig.
Marc:I'm at the airport in Burbank going to Seattle.
Marc:We got the plane.
Marc:We're on the plane.
Marc:And there's a problem.
Marc:There's a fluid leaking out of the back of the plane.
Marc:So I'm like, how bad could it be?
Marc:It's just, it's fluid.
Marc:But obviously they need to check this.
Marc:It's just pouring out of the back of the plane.
Marc:They don't know what the hell it is.
Marc:Now they got to bring the mechanic out to check the fluid.
Marc:And I am audibly out loud, just because of what I've been going through on airplanes, I out loud say, you got to be fucking kidding me.
Marc:Are you fucking kidding me?
Marc:What?
Marc:This is ridiculous out loud.
Marc:Now I'm a person that knows, look, dude, this is out of your control, man.
Marc:You cannot get angry about things out of your control.
Marc:That's what maturity brings you.
Marc:Okay, I'm not mature.
Marc:I'm seven.
Marc:I'm five.
Marc:I'm whatever I am.
Marc:Ten inside.
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:Because on some level, I understand that.
Marc:It's out of my control.
Marc:But that does not take away the fact that it is happening to me.
Marc:Okay, it's out of my control, but why am I being chosen to be put through this?
Marc:I connect all the dots.
Marc:It's how clear does it have to be?
Marc:I missed the plane because of snow.
Marc:I had to go to Syracuse.
Marc:I had to deal with vomit.
Marc:I had to switch a plane in Atlanta.
Marc:This is just a series.
Marc:This is another one of the chain of events that I'm supposed to receive some instruction here.
Marc:And apparently it's that like I'm fucked and I can't seem to get to where I want to get to with any sort of comfort.
Marc:Well, who's telling me that?
Marc:Why is it all about you?
Marc:I know there's other people on the plane, but they are just here.
Marc:They have been sacrificed by the great God of your fucked, you know, to deliver the message to me.
Marc:But really the message is shut up, grow up, do what you have to do to get where you need to go.
Marc:Don't sit on the plane.
Marc:And when the guy comes on the mic, the captain, it says, we're going to deplane because we haven't figured out what this mystery fluid is.
Marc:Don't be the guy that goes, we're getting off the fucking plane.
Marc:well they're giving you a choice what don't get off man i'm i'm out loud there's a woman next to me i'm like don't get off then we're gonna have to wait for you to get back on out loud under my breath i say that then we get off and then they figure out it's a goddamn potted water that runs the out of the faucet and in the toilet and they put us back on three hours late it was my only option to get up to see i don't almost miss the show in my mind
Marc:And I'm like, great, we're going.
Marc:Then they tell people that they're going to have to use water to flush the toilets effectively.
Marc:They give everyone the bottled water in the bathrooms and certain things aren't going to be available.
Marc:And I'm like, all right, let's get the fuck out of here.
Marc:And then they're like, is there anybody on the plane that's not comfortable with the situation?
Marc:I'm like, we cannot shit for two hours.
Marc:And I'm like, out loud, Maren?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Out loud.
Marc:To the point where the woman sitting next to me put her arm around me and said, it's going to be okay.
Guest:As if I were just going... Embarrassing.
Marc:I made it to the shows.
Marc:And now, strap in, we're going to talk to Dino Stamatopoulos.
Marc:It's going to get dark.
Marc:i love that we never talked too because now it's going to be interesting yeah there's no talking beforehand yeah it all happens on the mics here at wtf yeah in the garage now i don't know what the you know why can't they make the internet better
Guest:Are you... Is this part of the podcast now?
Marc:It might be.
Marc:I mean, you know, we'll make it available for that.
Marc:I mean, I could put it on the podcast.
Guest:I think this is good.
Marc:No, it's my life, Dino.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In the garage, Dino Stamatopoulos.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:That's a good name.
Marc:Dino Stamatopoulos.
Marc:Quick background.
Marc:Here's how I know Dino.
Marc:Years ago, he was this...
Marc:Tall, long-haired man with varying facial hair.
Marc:Haven't changed.
Marc:Wandering around a bit with comics that I knew.
Marc:I think at the time you were a writer.
Marc:The first time I met you, you were probably a writer on Conan.
Marc:And you did not like stand-up comedy.
Guest:No, no, I still don't.
Guest:I like certain stand ups.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But as a form.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, look, everything gets bastardized and shitty.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, Louie hated me for a while because I hated stand up.
Guest:And then I saw Louie and I'm like, oh, yeah, OK, that's not really stand up.
Marc:Oh, so you're able to create your own context.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, yes, I'm a human on Earth.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're free to do that.
Guest:Yeah, we can do it.
Marc:We can create context.
Marc:But what was your aversion to stand-up?
Guest:You know, I started doing open mic nights.
Guest:Oh, you did?
Guest:And had to deal with a lot of, like, really bad comics, you know.
Guest:And then, you know, you look at...
Guest:actually when i was a kid i used to uh audio tape the tonight show whenever there was a stand-up on i used to just get into any kind of stand-up so you used to that's what happened you loved it you loved it and it hurt you it hurt me yes
Guest:I never put that together.
Guest:You never did?
Guest:This is why the WTF podcast is so great.
Marc:Well, I think if people don't know who you are, they should.
Marc:They don't.
Marc:I want to try to put you into context.
Marc:You were a writer on the Ben Stiller Show, briefly, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, that was my first job.
Marc:And then you were part of the original crew that created the first Conan O'Brien show.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And you are probably personally responsible for recurring characters that they still have on that show.
Guest:No.
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:No.
Guest:I think they've... No, all my characters were crazy.
Marc:But they used them.
Marc:No.
Marc:They never did.
Guest:No, I don't think so.
Guest:Not after I left.
Guest:First of all, I don't think anyone could write it because they weren't that great, first of all, but it was just weird, like Slim Organ Body, which is the slim good body guy, but he had real organs on the outside of his body and he was depressed.
Guest:My stuff never catches on.
Guest:It never does.
Guest:When I left that show, it was right before it took off and they started adding reruns and I would have been a millionaire if I stayed on for one more month.
Marc:But didn't you, for some reason, I thought that you and Robert Smigel had sort of invented the sort of elevated, almost childlike sensibility of some of the sketches on that show.
Marc:Because you do have a style.
Right.
Guest:I think maybe the style carried on a little bit.
Marc:And how would you define that?
Marc:That style that you do?
Marc:Because you don't write regular jokes.
Guest:Just write for babies.
Guest:But where adults actually like it too.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like babies could watch most of my early shit and just go, hey, yeah, I can dig that.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:And adults are like, this is really clever.
Guest:This is, yeah, this is cutting edge.
Guest:This is like babies would love it.
Yeah.
Marc:and why why did you why did you settle on that i mean there's now before we get into that though what so i didn't realize that you started trying to do comedy because you loved comedy until it fucked you in the ass and what where did you do if it fucked me in the ass i'd love it a lot more oh so maybe it's just yeah i mean i have a prostate gland yeah and it's good yeah yeah it's still working it is yeah i'm 46 and it's
Marc:I'm 47 sometimes I come it shoots over my head really still yeah but that's only if if it's like that's got to be a good one that's not yeah yeah no no it's not normal it's definitely like you know my mind's got to be there like right right or maybe your mind doesn't have to be there at all and it's just so surprisingly great now the mind has a lot to do with it with me
Marc:Really?
Marc:With the distance?
Marc:With the trajectory and projectile?
Guest:Yeah, I'm in my head and I've got the scenario and boom.
Marc:Oh, so this happened in a solo session?
Guest:It doesn't have to.
Guest:But I usually, even in a session with a woman, I masturbate.
Guest:I love it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, I've only heard myths about your sexual proclivities.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, look, you want me to boil it down in two seconds?
Guest:I masturbate in front of women.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:Yeah, but I've often gleaned just bits and pieces of your elaborate sexual life from other sources.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, we could get into that now or later.
Marc:Well, let's build up to that.
Guest:Okay, okay.
Guest:Let's do the...
Marc:Let's start with an early comedy career.
Guest:I can't wait to see the segues.
Marc:And then get into the sexual burlesque and follies of you.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So where'd you start, though?
Marc:Where did you come from?
Guest:I grew up in Chicago.
Guest:So you're a Chicago guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They invent comedy people there.
Guest:Yeah, it's crazy because I didn't get into comedy because I was in Chicago.
Guest:I got into comedy because I, you know, I had a miserable, I was ugly little kid and I started making people laugh.
Guest:Maybe a lot of ugly people come from Chicago.
Marc:Maybe that's, I think there's a, there's probably a mathematic to that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's horrible.
Guest:In fact, I'm sure that's right.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I know Louis CK once said to me, uh, upon the success of a younger, more good looking person who ended up becoming Jay Moore, uh,
Marc:let's not mention his name before but uh no but he uh uh he when jay first started doing comedy he was like furious he's like comedy was for the ugly people yeah it was for us you know now it's not oh please yeah
Marc:I swear to God.
Guest:I remember I ran into Jay Moore in New York.
Guest:I was with my wife, who at the time was a dominatrix, and she was wearing brown leather pants.
Guest:And he just walked up to me and said, you go, girl.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't care if you're funny or not.
Guest:You go, girl?
Marc:you're on snl that bothered you that bothered yeah yeah i i don't i wouldn't mind if he took her and fucked her in front of you yeah while you jerked off right but don't say you go girl come on make it make it happen make something happen yeah that would have been don't do a hackneyed black slang yeah you should have said make that happen girl yeah yeah and that would have been better yeah so you're in chicago you're ugly you're miserable
Guest:Hey.
Marc:What?
Guest:I could say it about myself.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is it the same?
Guest:Don't be mean.
Guest:Don't be mean.
Guest:Oh, no, no.
Guest:I'm not being mean.
Guest:I started crying in a bar once.
Marc:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why?
Guest:I was in Vegas, and what's that punk bar, the Double Down?
Guest:And I was with a bunch of friends, Dan Harmon, and he was dating my friend Io.
Marc:Dan Harmon writes, he's a created community, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:We met in a bar, but not that one.
Guest:But I was there for like 18 hours, and finally I wouldn't leave, and they're trying to pull me out, and they said, why won't you leave?
Guest:And I said, I'm too ugly to go out there, and I just start crying.
Marc:Did that story have to be told to you, or you remember it?
Guest:I don't remember if I remember it or if it's been told to me.
Guest:I mean, it's very plain in my... The idea is very clear.
Guest:I could see that happening.
Marc:Well, what kind of household did you grow up in?
Guest:Well, I mean, nice parents.
Guest:They didn't wake me up and go, hey, ugly.
Guest:It was actually very nurturing.
Guest:For a long time, I thought I was a genius because my dad laughed and encouraged me with everything I did.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I met other people.
Yeah.
Guest:doesn't that suck yeah when they come into the picture yeah all those other people yeah usually the parents are the problem yeah in this not in this case yeah it was once you left the house yeah yeah then everything got ugly why are you so cocky yeah you're opposite you're a dick you're ugly you're and they beat you down yeah beat me down when'd you get funny
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Am I funny?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe never.
Marc:I think if we were to take a poll, I've gotten some pretty good laughs already.
Marc:If you were a stand-up comedian, I'd be enjoying the show.
Guest:But I'm not even trying to be funny.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:You're innately funny.
Guest:That's what comedy is.
Guest:God, we're learning a lot of breakthroughs for you.
Guest:Well, when I try and be funny, believe me, that's when I'm not.
Guest:I remember going into Columbia College in Chicago and
Guest:I always thought I was funny because when I was a kid and people would beat me up, I would just say things and naturally make them laugh.
Guest:So I walked into college and thought I was hilarious.
Guest:And the head or the assistant head of the theater department just looked at me and shook his head.
Guest:He's like, you're trying way too hard.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Trying way too hard.
Marc:Yeah, that's as bad as you're ugly.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Marc:Your face is trying way too hard.
Marc:It's just a horrible thing to hear.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because what do you do from that?
Marc:Then you have to turn off something you didn't even know was on.
Marc:Yeah, but I did it.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah, I'm a survivor.
Guest:Good for you.
Marc:Yeah, after the treatments, you made it through.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was that?
Marc:What was Columbia College?
Marc:What did you study?
Guest:I went there originally for film and went to the theater department and just there was a whole wide open third floor where
Guest:Women were lying around Barefoot and I was like I want to fuck everyone here.
Guest:Yeah, and you know, of course I didn't because I was I was trying I was only 22 You know another year for me to lose my virginity so but yeah, I was trying way too hard and I
Guest:uh but so i you know i hang out in the theater department a lot of uh talented people came out of the years that i was there like scott adsit oh yeah and uh andy dick were you friends yeah yeah you still friends with johnston jay johnston's like your running buddy right yeah yeah you know we have off and on you know we're very different you know i talk a lot and he keeps a lot of secrets right but but what happens but you guys are drinking buddies
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And what happens when does that shift during the drinking?
Guest:Yeah, the drinking shifts it.
Marc:That should be on an advertisement for some alcohol.
Guest:This will shift it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's interesting because we're completely opposite people.
Guest:I'm...
Guest:I'm trying to not color this where I'm the hero.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you guys work together on... He was on Sarah Silverman's program on Mr. Show.
Marc:He's a very respected, comedic guy.
Guest:Yeah, he's hilarious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really funny guy.
Guest:He has the best quips just hanging out with him.
Guest:I was at his place once, and he asked me...
Guest:what i wanted to drink and i said i'll have a kettle on the rocks no lime in a rocks glass um with a little straw yeah and he said the only thing i have is the no lime quick no i give myself 20 credit for setting him up
Marc:all right 10 okay so when you guys so you guys when you do get together it gets you i mean look i was with you in montreal i saw you for breakfast yeah i lied earlier i don't remember seeing you yeah i was pretty drunk pretty drunk dude you had a quadruple scotch for breakfast i mean it was 10 in the morning yeah and we had a long conversation wow
Marc:Yeah, and you told me what a genius you thought I was and how you've respected me since before you even met me.
Guest:I do, I do.
Marc:You didn't say any of that.
Guest:Well, I always think about you because I met you through Louie, I'm sure.
Guest:Early on.
Marc:And you were always this sort of weird, mysterious dude that seemed very angry to me, but it turns out you were just probably feeling...
Guest:uh just insecure yeah that's all it's true right yeah but i wasn't angry toward you i was i always felt like whenever we met up we had uh we were very cordial to each other right but there was i guess it wasn't attention but i i mean i always i mean of course you know you know louis will go oh mark maron is such an asshole that doesn't help yeah let me prepare you for the mark maron encounter yeah but you know
Marc:But so you guys were there.
Marc:So you were there at the original Conan.
Marc:And I guess the reason I'm fascinated with some of the stuff you do is because it all seems fairly signature.
Marc:It does have that childlike quality.
Marc:But you like using music.
Marc:I mean, I feel like you invented something.
Marc:I feel like that there's a sensibility that came out of you specifically that kind of informed a lot of the comedy nerd explosion.
Marc:That, you know, this use of music, the use of childlike things to deal with adult themes.
Marc:I just don't... I think that you were part of...
Marc:creating that uh yeah i'm just blowing smoke up your ass but i mean i believe that's true i mean you know you you were gonna i'm gonna give you a blowjob no that was you offered me one right and you're gonna get oh good yeah well that was included the fact that you didn't want any uh just coffee dot co-op no i don't drink a lot of coffee because then you went on to do you know mr show at bob and david and i a lot of your stuff got on that show whether you know whatever happened on conan's show i mean there was no i think even on conan it got on i just uh
Guest:I was never on a show where it was really popular.
Marc:Oh, the show itself.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But in your mind, what are some of the greatest bits you did on those two shows?
Marc:Like on the early Conan, if you can remember, what was the thing that you're like?
Guest:I didn't drink back then, by the way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're one of those late starters.
Marc:I never fucking understand that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you're getting it in.
Guest:Whatever you didn't do, it's... I was very coddled when I was a kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You're making up for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:uh on conan god i can't even i mean i look at all this stuff i did um i wrote a bunch of uh kiss ass turkeys where uh it was a very realistic turkey puppet in the audience on thanksgiving yeah uh every time conan made a joke he laughed way too hard just so he wouldn't
Guest:Get eaten.
Guest:Slim organ body I liked.
Guest:You know, I mean, I think they're all lost.
Marc:We can't get any of them now, apparently.
Marc:All those, NBC just fucking put them in a vault.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:They were on YouTube for a while.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then, you know, on Mr. Show, my favorite, I guess, was The Audition, which is about a guy auditioning for a television show.
Guest:And he comes in, he says, I'm going to do an audition from the play called The Audition by Gavin Halderwood.
Guest:And he says, can I use this chair?
Guest:And they say, yes.
Guest:And I went, wait, that's part of the audition.
Guest:And it just goes from there.
Guest:Basically, I actually did that.
Guest:I wrote a play in Chicago, which, you know, no one came to see.
Guest:But afterwards, all my friends like Scott Adsit, we went up on stage and did fake auditions for each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That came from that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:yeah so uh when you when you do like even like the the stuff you did on uh adult swim the moral oral show now when when you do because i i sense i feel like you're sort of a a rebellious fucking dude i mean do you do you seek to destroy
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:I just seek to entertain myself.
Guest:I don't know what's going to offend people.
Guest:I'm bored by most things, so I'm not a good judge of what's going to be offensive.
Guest:I don't get offended by anything, first of all.
Guest:So because I don't, it doesn't click in my head that this is going to be offensive, and then someone reads and says, wow, that's going to get a lot of letters.
Guest:And then...
Guest:It airs, and no one sees it.
Guest:No one gives a shit.
Marc:And you're waiting for the letters.
Guest:You're like, great.
Guest:Yeah, I'm like, wow, I can't believe it.
Guest:Letters.
Guest:I'm going to get mail.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Does anyone send letters anymore?
Guest:But, you know, no one cared.
Guest:No one cared about moral oral.
Marc:Was that based on Davian Goliath somehow?
Guest:It was I actually wrote a early script like 10 years earlier about Iggy Pop.
Guest:I wanted him to play a 12 year old boy.
Guest:I love Iggy Pop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I saw him in concert and I said he has the energy that I never had.
Guest:You know, he was a 12 year old kid jumping off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Huge speakers and shit.
Guest:Still.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Unbelievable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's as old as George W. Bush.
Guest:Yeah, and he's doing that.
Marc:I think he's a little older than George W. Bush.
Marc:Yeah, by... I think he's in his 60s, isn't he, Iggy?
Guest:I think they're pretty close in age.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I wanted to write a series for him where he was like, leave it to Beaver.
Guest:And it was never explained why.
Guest:He would have been perfect for that.
Marc:Because he's got that sort of do-right kind of like, how are you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm Iggy.
Guest:And he played a 12 year old and no one said you look like an older guy.
Guest:In fact, he'd have to put a mustache on to get into a bar.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I wrote an episode and actually had a meeting with him at Life Cafe in New York.
Guest:And so I'm sitting there explaining this crazy show and he's not listening and looking around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And all of a sudden I'm his dad.
Guest:I'm like, now, Iggy, pay attention.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's like, sorry, dude.
Guest:There's pussy everywhere, man.
Guest:Can't concentrate.
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, you're right.
Guest:And I just say, here, take the script.
Guest:I wrote it.
Guest:And it was just called Iggy.
Guest:And he looked at it.
Guest:And it was like he never saw his name in print before.
Guest:He's like, oh, man, thanks.
Guest:Thanks.
Oh, yeah.
Guest:And then he left, and I don't think he ever wrote it, or read it.
Guest:I called his manager, and his manager said, yeah, Iggy feels like it's too close to another character he did in a movie, like The Crow.
Guest:No, it was nowhere near it.
Guest:He'd never played a 12-year-old boy before.
Marc:I like the idea of doing a show where it's just trying to get Iggy Pop to listen to you.
Guest:That would be a good show, yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:So that led to Moral Oral how?
Guest:I was on some nerd fan site and talked about that episode.
Guest:And someone said, oh, you should make a cartoon of it.
Guest:And I stole the idea from this poor kid.
Guest:And yeah, I made a cartoon.
Guest:And I thought, and then it was during the W. Bush administration.
Guest:And I thought, well, I'll make it about the Bible Belt.
Guest:And I thought, well, the perfect way to go is stop motion like Davian Goliath.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I just didn't think it would be viable.
Guest:I thought it would be too expensive.
Guest:And Nick Weidenfeld from Adult Swim said, we're doing a show called Robot Chicken.
Guest:They're doing stop motion really cheap because they're exploiting the workers.
Guest:And I said, oh, yeah, I'll get on that.
Guest:And so, yeah, and then we started doing it.
Guest:And, yeah, originally I went for like –
Guest:Oh, Davy and Goliath look.
Guest:But I had watched Davy and Goliath and they're not very religious.
Guest:They kind of the religion comes at the end.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Do you know the voice of God?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The religion kind of like pops in at the very end.
Guest:Right.
Guest:My show was religion all the way.
Marc:No, I thought it was.
Marc:I thought it was inspired.
Marc:I liked it.
Marc:Because when I watch your stuff, because I'm such a heady fuck, I'm always assuming that you're layering it somehow, but you're just sort of like, this will be good.
Guest:Yeah, I'm not an intellectual writer.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, I'm more instinctual.
Guest:Well, that means that intellectuals will sit there and go like, what does Gino mean?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I wish you'd tell me.
Marc:I think that's why I'm here.
Marc:Yeah, I can't do that.
Marc:I think we'll find some things.
Marc:We already figured out why you hate comedy.
Guest:Yeah, we figured out a lot.
Marc:That was quick, why you hate stand-up comedy.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I feel like I blew my load.
Marc:Yeah, right at the beginning.
Marc:And then we went right into you blowing your load, actually.
Marc:So you did blow your load, and we did find it.
Marc:But I'm still kind of fascinated with that.
Marc:You couldn't take the rejection of it?
Guest:Of what?
Marc:Stand up.
Guest:Oh, stand up.
Guest:I don't feel like I was really rejected, actually.
Guest:I just I didn't do great and I didn't do poorly.
Guest:I bombed sometimes and sometimes I did OK.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just couldn't sit through all those comedians.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:and uh and then uh you know started doing shit at the funny firm in chicago yeah and uh and it just started feeling dirty to me oh yeah yeah dirty and like i see this interesting since you do you don't put moral labels on things i wanted like what dirty yeah i guess you know i don't have
Marc:dirty like i could do anything sexual yeah or yeah and you won't but it's just i i feel like my integrity is all i have right and so you got it felt dirty because you couldn't believe the parade of hacks yes and uh exactly untalented people right that were you know taking up your brain yeah because you and other people's brains yeah you know so you got angry yeah at there i
Marc:Yeah, I can understand that.
Marc:I mean, come on.
Marc:We all do.
Marc:Well, no, no.
Marc:I think that there is a sort of... It's bad.
Guest:It's stupid because, you know, we're wrong.
Guest:If most people like shit, then it's not shit, right?
Guest:No, that's ridiculous.
Guest:Really?
Marc:No, yeah.
Marc:Convince me that I'm wrong.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, I think that what happens is if something is jammed into some people's brains enough...
Marc:And it doesn't threaten, nor does it take any chances whatsoever.
Marc:It's sort of like, what's a good analogy?
Marc:I just think that the emotional investment or the amount of open-mindedness required to take in something that a lot of people like, if it's something that's mediocre and bad, it's just safe.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's repeated because it's safe.
Marc:So it's generated just to hold on to those people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Maybe the analogy is alcohol versus hallucinogenics.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, that could work.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because some people are like, fuck, yeah, I'll have a beer.
Guest:It just numbs you.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah, and it makes everything a little easier for a little while.
Marc:But I don't know, psilocybin, that seems a little heavy, but I'll try it once, and then they do something stupid and they never do it again.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, that's an okay analogy.
Marc:But I don't think it always means that.
Marc:I think that what you were responding to comedically is just that there is moments where you watch a lot of stand-up comedy, certainly in an amateur level, where you're like, why?
Marc:Why?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why am I?
Marc:Why is this happening?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Why?
Guest:And maybe there was a little insecurity there, too, maybe because I do not think I'm always that funny.
Marc:You know, what do you think is funny, though?
Guest:I mean, like, you know, I think I think the people I hate the most are the ones that I can relate more to me.
Guest:You know, like.
Guest:the ones who remind you of you yeah a little bit sure yeah so the worst thing anyone could do is say you're gonna love my friend he's just like you yeah end up hating him for life yeah of course yeah yeah because uh because of you hate yourself so much i hate myself and i and i want to be original
Guest:I don't want someone else.
Marc:Me?
Guest:I always think, yeah, if there was another me, I'd just blow them all day.
Marc:No, it's not true.
Marc:So your journey is really to refine your self-loathing into something so unique that nobody could compete with you.
Marc:Wow, yeah.
Marc:That's awesome.
Marc:And out of that pit of darkness and self-hatred comes cartoons and songs.
Guest:You're the Barbara Walters of podcasts.
Guest:I'm going to cry right now.
Guest:Please, get a close-up of this.
Marc:Oh, don't fuck up my mic.
Marc:What are you doing?
Guest:You're trying too hard.
Guest:How Greek are you?
Guest:Well, I would say 100%, although I'm sure someone got raped somewhere down the line.
Marc:But I mean, like, at home, do you have the big Easter thing?
Guest:I actually do.
Guest:I love cooking Greek food.
Guest:And, you know, when I was a kid, I was embarrassed by it.
Guest:But I...
Guest:I've embraced it.
Guest:I just went to Greece and actually had a sort of a cathartic, life-changing experience.
Marc:In Greece?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Not the kind that'll make you stop drinking.
Guest:For a while it did.
Guest:But then I realized I like drinking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Greeks drink a lot.
Guest:So there you go.
Guest:It all works.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Once I figure out how to ration.
Marc:Now I just eat more when I drink.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was this experience and where did it happen?
Guest:Well, you know, my dad died like in 2002.
Guest:And I...
Guest:those years like those eight years after that up until just like last summer were very difficult for me you know my dad was everything to me really and uh um in fact when i was uh in college we had to come up with a name for a uh a comedy sketch group and no one liked this but i just kept having
Guest:I adamantly said this is the funniest thing because it's the worst thing ever.
Guest:And it's the sketch group.
Guest:I wanted to be called Father's Dead.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because to me, the funniest thing is the worst thing always.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, yeah.
Guest:So my dad died and I'm like, oh, how's my mom going to deal with this?
Guest:How am I going to deal with this?
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I started drinking a lot at that point, you know.
Guest:And my kid was just born... She was two years old.
Guest:And I thought... Actually, I always thought... As long as my...
Guest:parents could see that i had a kid they'll be happy but that is actually the worst thing i could have done because my dad was so depressed about dying because he couldn't see his daughter grow or his granddaughter grow up so he had it was a progressive thing yeah it was cancer okay yeah right in the eye no yeah yeah
Guest:removed his eye then like five years later it spread yeah but yeah so so when I went to Greece this last time it was the first time I saw his family he has like two sisters really and I went with his brother who lives in Chicago and met with his other brother and it was you know
Guest:It was sort of a reunion, and I realized, because I didn't realize this at the time, that I'd been mourning my dad's death for like eight years, and this was his real funeral, you know?
Marc:So you had the grief, but you didn't have closure.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, because my dad was always a self-sacrificing guy, and I always felt like he just gave up everything for his family, and he never had any fun.
Guest:And what happened...
Guest:I got to hear a lot of stories about him being a kid and fucking around and fucking women and shit like that from my uncles and aunts.
Guest:And it just made me realize that he had a full life and I shouldn't feel horrible about him.
Guest:I should start feeling horrible about me.
Guest:Just shift it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now I got to figure out how I disappointed him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And how I'm going to drive my daughter crazy.
Marc:So that was the catharsis is just that, that family connection.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's filling the gaps with your dad's life.
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Marc:That's awesome, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, and do you feel like you have some closure over it now?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Guest:I mean, you know, sure, I still get melancholy when I think about them, but it's not, like, the utter sadness and despair.
Guest:Right, I can't imagine.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, both of my parents are still alive, and, you know, like, there's times where, I don't know, like, I get the whole parents thing, but there are times where I don't feel a connection, but I imagine if I lost one, it would probably...
Guest:Well, that's interesting.
Guest:Like, you don't feel close?
Marc:I feel close enough, but I don't, like, it's, like, there's a, I don't, like, I feel like my parents are just people I grew up with.
Marc:You know, like, they were just as needy as I was.
Guest:Well, yeah, definitely.
Marc:So there's this thing where, like, I don't, like, I keep in touch with them, but there's a certain distance there.
Marc:I just, I don't think about it much.
Marc:And, you know, now I'm thinking about it.
Guest:Yeah, you should start thinking about it.
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Marc:Prepare.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:Were you prepared?
Guest:Well, I thought about it a lot.
Guest:But he also had cancer.
Guest:He had cancer.
Guest:I mean, there was something, you know, when when someone has cancer, you you read a sigh of relief when they die.
Marc:Right.
Marc:We also have time to process it on some level.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:There's an expectation there.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Now, when you were growing up, I mean, your dad was just like a champion of you.
Marc:He was a good guy and, you know, he just was into everything you did and shit.
Guest:Yeah, definitely too much, I think.
Marc:So he got a kick out of you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I wonder how my brother felt because I was the firstborn and I feel like I got most of that.
Marc:Yeah, they get the stiff end of the stick because you get most of the love and excitement and they don't and you beat the shit out of them.
Guest:Yeah, I was a wimp.
Guest:He beat the shit out of me.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's all starting to make sense.
Marc:Your comedic persona is... You were beat up by your little brother.
Guest:We actually didn't fight a lot, but if we ever did, he would win.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think I was... I knew how to fight.
Guest:I don't have it in me.
Marc:So you don't feel like you're a good father yourself?
Guest:um how old is your kid now well i mean you know that's debatable yeah she's 11 i left the uh that situation when she was three um but i still support them and i see her you know i used to take her to school every day right um and i see her on weekends she comes over
Marc:And you get along with your ex?
Guest:Yeah, we get along great.
Guest:In fact, you know, she has a great boyfriend who... Is this the dominatrix?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have to, like, you know, at one point she's like, I don't know if I'm going to stay with him.
Guest:I'm like, you've got to stay with him.
Guest:He's my knight in shining armor.
Guest:He swept you off my feet.
Guest:I love him and he treats my daughter amazingly.
Marc:Is she still working?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:She stopped pretty much after we quote unquote fell in love, whatever that means.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:When you met her, were you a client?
Guest:yeah huh i was a client and and we we instantly hit it off and went out to dinner and i found out she had a boyfriend this french guy yeah and we all ended up moving in together and you know we would have three of you yeah but i wasn't sexual with him right uh but we would have like s m sessions together and she would go and cry to him and
Guest:It was a perfect situation.
Marc:She would cry about what?
Marc:That she had feelings for you?
Guest:No, just about life in general.
Guest:He was this overbearing French guy who I loved, but I think she got into S&M because of him.
Guest:I think he kind of pushed her in that direction.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And because she was so miserable during S&M, she beat the shit out of me and I fell in love.
Guest:The first day I met her, she burnt my cock.
Guest:Like for weeks, I couldn't touch it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went back the next day.
Guest:And said, come on, more of that.
Guest:Yeah, this is amazing.
Guest:My parents never treated me like this.
Marc:What do you think is... You know, because I mean, honestly, I'm sort of ashamed because you're here.
Marc:I feel like I'm fairly kind of...
Marc:My sexual proclivities are fairly narrow.
Marc:I'm pretty regular.
Guest:Nice and tight.
Guest:It's a nice, tight, narrow.
Guest:Yeah, there's a tight, narrow.
Marc:I just need connection.
Marc:And that gets me off.
Guest:Well, here's what it is with me.
Guest:This is where, you know, I don't blame my parents.
Guest:They're people.
Guest:They just they're computers like we all are.
Guest:And they just do things.
Guest:And their idea of love was worry, worry, worry, worry, worry, worry.
Guest:Shelter, shelter, shelter, worry, worry, worry.
Guest:You know, where are you?
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:You know, they were Greek.
Guest:In fact, a great movie.
Guest:everyone should see is called Dogtooth.
Guest:It's a Greek movie.
Guest:That's all I'll say about it.
Guest:It's on instant Netflix.
Guest:It's up for an Academy Award this year.
Guest:But worry is a huge part of the Greek culture, as it is probably with the Jewish culture, too.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:But to me, love meant another person who's going to die in my life, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I think with S&M, it's so distant that
Guest:Detached, you mean?
Guest:It's very detached, yeah.
Guest:And so, yeah, when someone is inflicting pain on you, they're not worried about you.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And that got me off.
Guest:Worry does not get me off.
Guest:Right.
Guest:My friend once said my parents didn't get married.
Guest:They got worried.
Marc:But that's sort of... It's quite a jump to experiencing... And I'm not judging it because there's plenty of people that get off on this.
Marc:And certainly, I'm no stranger to pain that I inflict on myself.
Marc:I don't know if I like it when other people do it to me.
Guest:I'm like, I got that covered.
Guest:Like I said, we're computers and the data that is downloaded was worry.
Guest:And then there was this other bit of data, which was when I was three years old, the first...
Guest:Like movie with like sort of scantily clad people I saw on my TV set was like a Jason and the Argonauts movie where a man and a woman were being tortured.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like half naked.
Guest:And I remember getting a hard on at three.
Guest:for that yeah so worry plus weird sexual s&m movie when you're three to me marrying a dominatrix yeah well you know maybe there's a few other uh aspects involved but i i don't know what they are well like in in terms of like you know you know reading and experiencing you know pain is pleasure and then you also said that you think that the
Guest:the you know the worst possible option is the funniest i mean like i mean do you see any connection to this in your and your sense of humor um maybe yeah although it's it's strange to uh bring up sense of humor with sex because that's the last thing i want to do is laugh during sex right you want to cry like anyone laugh yeah yeah
Guest:Yeah, no, I do want to cry.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, I've had, like, emotional experiences where I would be just beat so hard I would start crying and love it by the end.
Marc:And that's an ecstatic state for you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, what about just, like, regular sex?
Guest:I've grown to like it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I've...
Guest:I've gotten more into it as I've grown older and more confident and women are more attracted to me.
Guest:And, you know.
Marc:So that's interesting.
Marc:So that like a lot of the S&M stuff, it was complete detachment.
Marc:And there was, you know, there was definitely a context.
Marc:You're going to hurt me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that, you know, your investment was just to be there and request being hurt as much as possible.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it was about like and it was about my insecurity.
Guest:You know, I had never been with a woman.
Guest:I thought, well, the only way a woman's going to be with me is she can beat the shit out of me.
Guest:Probably.
Marc:You thought that when?
Guest:When I was a kid.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:You know, you know, was your mother dominating?
Guest:She's a strong person.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I mean, a gruff person, but I don't think she's dominating because she cries at the drop of a hat.
Guest:No.
Marc:No?
Marc:No one hit you?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, you know, I got hit a little bit as a kid, but not anything steady.
Marc:So do you think that there's any possibility that the, you know, I'm no psychologist, but I mean, is there some sense of this was a way to protect yourself from emotional pain?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, definitely.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Definitely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like I say, okay, like, oh, okay.
Marc:So now we've got that figured out.
Guest:Yeah, no, I don't like that.
Guest:That's why I drink, too, because I could be a little more emotional, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, and like with with S&M, like I said, I would break down crying and become emotional, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's kind of also a road to get me to be emotional, because I think when I'm totally straight and sober, I'm very stoic and I don't.
Guest:I'm not as open, you know?
Marc:But is that because you're defensive or because you're too sensitive?
Guest:I'm probably defensive.
Guest:Oh, and sensitive.
Guest:Yeah, let's throw the good one in, too.
Marc:So you don't require any nurturing.
Guest:I hate it when I have a girlfriend and she sticks up for me.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, because I think it's bullshit.
Marc:In what situation are you talking about?
Guest:Just anything.
Guest:Like, oh, Dino's so funny.
Guest:I'm like, fuck you.
Guest:You're my girlfriend.
Guest:Why are you even saying that?
Guest:Because she's your girlfriend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:You know, my parents never like as much as they showered me with affection and attention in public, they were always embarrassed to.
Guest:They never said anything about me that was like Dino's great or, you know, we're proud of him.
Guest:And I understood that.
Guest:I think I did, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I kind of I've taken that along and I do it with my daughter.
Guest:Like people say, oh, she's so beautiful.
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, she's kind of dumb, you know, she's not.
Guest:But and I don't say that.
Guest:But or as a joke.
Guest:But, you know, I don't like to, you know, I don't like to.
Guest:brag about my kid or my girlfriend or anything.
Guest:And it drives girlfriends crazy.
Marc:Yeah, when you tell them not to say nice things about you or you refuse to say nice things about them.
Guest:Yeah, mostly the latter.
Marc:Well, I experience that, but it's usually because I don't think to.
Guest:Well, that too.
Guest:I don't think to either.
Marc:It's like I don't have any philosophy behind it.
Marc:It's just like sometimes at some point you've got to realize, like, hey, dude, occasionally they just want to hear that they're pretty and that their pants look nice.
Guest:Well, I have friends who the girls aren't even around and they're showering them with praise.
Guest:I'm like, why are you wasting this?
Guest:Save it for her, dude.
Guest:What do you really feel it?
Marc:Do you ever get afraid that you're going to become so fucking jaded that your humanity will be gone?
Guest:I hope so, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Guest:I think I'm too sensitive.
Marc:You're like a devil.
Marc:That's what you are.
Marc:You turn on the juice like, oh, don't hurt my feelings.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Did you sleep?
Guest:Yeah, I slept.
Guest:I slept well.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Do I look tired?
Marc:No.
Marc:This was the first guest.
Marc:I got a little smell of last night from the little alcohol.
Guest:From me?
Guest:Yeah, a little bit.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I just stopped at Columbo's on the way here.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a bar?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Had a couple?
Guest:I just had one, but they pour a nice stiff one, yeah.
Marc:It's nice to have a stiff cocktail in the middle of the day.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:The problem with cocktails, though, don't you find that you have to keep feeding that thing?
Marc:Not really.
Marc:Because, like, don't you just, like, after, okay, so you had a stiff one, what, an hour and a half ago, an hour and 15 minutes ago?
Marc:Now aren't you just going to feel, like, a little edgy and irritable in about an hour?
Guest:I just wanted to do it for this.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:To just, like, loosen me up a little bit.
Marc:I think it went well.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And we're still talking.
Marc:I'm not done.
Yeah.
Marc:So how much do you think that... You and Louis C.K.
Marc:worked together on Conan, you worked together on the Dana Carvey show, and then you worked with him on the original Louis for CBS, correct?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, working with him, because it just struck me that that sentiment that your comic sensibility about when people...
Marc:uh, say nice things about your kids is really a theme that, you know, he exploits a lot.
Marc:Is that, you know, that secret voice of like, nah, fuck the kid, you know?
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How much influence do you think you had on him or each other?
Guest:Uh, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, we always talked about it and we, we always agreed, you know, uh, I think we, we got a little bit off from each other.
Guest:Definitely.
Guest:Um, uh,
Guest:Yeah, I mean, Louie and I, we would have, like, you know, hour-long conversations where we'd just talk about him.
Guest:I've had those, too, with Louie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I'd be like, you know what that reminds me of?
Guest:Yeah, I got to go, Dino.
Guest:He heard the word I.
Guest:My favorite Louis story, I think it was during Conan.
Guest:I don't remember what his story was, but we were sitting in a diner and he just told me this amazing story about his life.
Guest:And I said, holy shit, that is amazing.
Guest:And he just put his head in his hands and started rubbing his face miserably.
Guest:And I said, what's wrong?
Guest:Because I'm like, did he open up too much or what?
Guest:And he said, I just hope everyone doesn't lie as much as I do.
Marc:that's good that's fucking hilarious yeah so how'd you like i have to assume that you know and i don't you know i don't know a lot but because of of your integrity that you know working on a show yeah i mean how long were you really at mad tv
Marc:Ha ha ha.
Guest:I was there for like one, whatever they call it in the business semester cycle.
Guest:One just like three months.
Marc:My sense of you is you're very respected, but you're also, you know, your own thing.
Marc:And I just like when when you're in situations that are clearly at odds with what it is you fucking think you should be doing.
Marc:I mean, how does that explode?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, look, I needed a job really badly.
Guest:My kid was three, and I had just moved out, so I had to pay for a lot of things.
Guest:And they assured me that we wanted Dino Sensibility at MADtv.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was like, cool.
Yeah.
Guest:I didn't even know what a Dino sensibility was.
Marc:But you knew you were Dino.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:On some level.
Guest:I knew that much.
Guest:And, you know, it wasn't.
Guest:It was very, you know, I want to say gay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It was.
Guest:I mean, everyone was really nice there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's already gay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that use of the word, in the legitimate use of the word.
Guest:They were literally, hello, welcome.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But they just wanted to do Anna Nicole Smith parodies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What'd you want to do?
Marc:What did you pitch where everyone went, oh, okay.
Guest:I don't even know.
Guest:I really, I blocked that whole time out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, everyone was really nice.
Guest:I, I, I,
Guest:I wrote with Tammy Sager, who's hilarious.
Guest:And I don't think I got very much on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they wanted me to stay on afterwards.
Guest:The same thing happened at Letterman.
Guest:You know, I didn't do anything on Letterman.
Guest:It was like the worst time for Letterman.
Guest:It was like 95, 96.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like really just trying to get Leno's ratings.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he just had country western music and shit like that on.
Guest:And I sat in my office.
Guest:Were you a fan?
Guest:I was a huge fan when he first started, and that's why I took the job.
Guest:I was just like, I know it's going to suck, but I want to just be on The Letterman Show and see what that's like.
Marc:Did you have any experiences with him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One time I...
Guest:He took his own elevator because he liked to work the elevator himself.
Guest:He likes driving sports cars in elevators, apparently.
Guest:And then the other two elevators was for everyone else.
Guest:And he was walking into his elevator and a bunch of us were waiting at the bottom floor.
Guest:And he looked at us and he said, want a ride?
Guest:And it was one of my first days.
Guest:I'm like, sure.
Guest:And no one else moved.
Guest:I'm like, oh.
Yeah.
Guest:So I walked in, and it's just me, the elevator operator, who's not doing anything, and Letterman, who's working at it.
Guest:And he goes into the middle of this conversation, which I know he's making up, because it's crazy.
Guest:He's looking at the elevator guy, and he's like, so you make a vat of it every day, huh?
Guest:He's like, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Ooh, it must be great.
Guest:Ooh, you just...
Guest:You just make a vat of it?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he's just doing it because he doesn't want to talk to me.
Guest:And it's literally that conversation.
Guest:And we get to his floor and my floor is one floor up and the doors open and no one moves.
Guest:The elevator guy says to me, is this your floor?
Guest:And I said, no, I'm actually one floor up.
Guest:But I could walk from here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I walked by and Letterman just under his breath says, yeah, good luck walking.
Guest:Like, you asshole.
Guest:I took you this far.
Guest:What do you want?
Guest:That was it.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:No, you know, I ran into him a couple other times there, you know, where, you know, I'd bring him some edited footage that I'd do and he wouldn't look up at all and just...
Guest:at least it didn't seem like it, but then he'd have a note saying, cut that part, you know?
Marc:It's interesting.
Marc:Like, cause I did this show maybe four times and every time I'm on it, I'm so like sort of starstruck by him for some reason.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:He's still, he's still great.
Guest:And like, he never said, he's hilarious.
Guest:And I, I understand, you know, he, he probably has people like Adam constantly and everyone's a moron and,
Marc:he's a quirky he's just like I just still I still have a tremendous amount of respect for the guy and like he never really said anything to me but every time I do stand up on that show when he'd come out like there'd be this moment I'm like oh my gosh Dave Letterman's right here yeah should I say something you know and I never really did panel or anything like that but one time they sat me down because there might be panel right and you know during the break you know after my act he goes can you make that stuff work on the road
Marc:And I knew he was saying it in a complimentary way, not like I just fucked up.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, because it worked there.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But I have some emotional connection to that guy.
Guest:Oh, definitely.
Guest:He got me through high school.
Marc:Yeah, I was my first year or second year.
Marc:I remember watching him.
Marc:You're a year younger than me.
Marc:You're 46.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're going to be 47 when?
Guest:December.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you're basically a year younger than me.
Marc:So when that show came on, you were a senior in high school?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, was it like 83?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:82, 83.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I was a senior.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I was just starting out in college.
Marc:I'd watched him fucking religiously because there was that there was just, you know, he was just a, you know, a crime.
Marc:He said like outrageous shit to guests.
Marc:I mean, there were just moments where you're like, holy fuck.
Marc:He just said that to that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I know.
Guest:It was riveting.
Guest:My favorite Letterman story, I always look for it on YouTube.
Guest:It was a bunch of child inventors, and one of the kids would just keep making weird faces with the camera, and you could tell the audience hated him.
Guest:You weren't sure that Letterman was paying any attention.
Guest:And at one point, he just leaned over and whispered in his ear, but he has a mic, and he whispered in his ear, you have a long, difficult life ahead of you.
Guest:To this seven-year-old kid.
Marc:I just remember one time he was interviewing some guy who had written a book.
Marc:He was a mob guy or something.
Marc:And maybe I'm making it up because memories become odd over time.
Marc:And certain things did or didn't happen or not as I remembered them.
Marc:But he had some conversion to religion.
Marc:And he had been in this huge mob family or whatever.
Marc:And the guy's going on about his conversion to religion.
Marc:And Letterman goes, we don't want to hear about that.
Marc:Tell us about the people you killed.
Marc:And it was just like that instinct to do that is fucking great.
Guest:How did the audience respond?
Marc:Yeah, I mean, it's clearly said as a joke, you know, but, you know, who knows?
Marc:I don't quite remember.
Guest:Well, when I was there, like, 12 years later, I...
Guest:Besides not working and making a shirt of paperclips for no reason, I would go through the archives and watch old footage from the NBC days, because this was on CBS at that point.
Guest:And...
Guest:And I picked shows that I remember watching and laughing hysterically and thinking, this shit killed.
Guest:And the audience did not respond at all during those early years.
Guest:That's why he hated those episodes.
Guest:He hates the early NBC years because he thought he was bombing the whole time.
Marc:Right, because they didn't know what to do with him.
Guest:Right, but he wasn't bombing.
Guest:Nope.
Guest:Because we were laughing at home.
Marc:Yeah, and you know what that studio is like.
Guest:Yeah, you bring in tourists.
Marc:Yeah, and Conan had some of the same issues.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, even when things were really funny, there was an audience, they're just on another ride at the New York park.
Marc:Exactly, yeah.
Marc:And now, even when Letterman, I have a sense, I don't watch it hardly at all, but you know when he's in it and when he's not.
Marc:And a lot of times when he's interviewing now,
Marc:He's not as cranky as he used to be, but he's very genuine.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, like you can tell he's interesting.
Guest:Well, now he's getting too many laughs, too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Guest:As Conan is.
Marc:Have you been over to that new show?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:It's really beautiful.
Marc:It's in a studio, so it doesn't have that weird kind of like... It's not like a TV studio like NBC is where there's this weird history and you just think that studio is never...
Marc:ever been anything different it was probably roughly the same with letterman yeah you go to this one and like they built this thing this is a set wow and they built like a it's a beautiful theater like you know he's got a lot of space on the stage and the audience is situated beautifully and uh it was it's pretty great um i i think that sometimes people probably have you hang around because you you're dino and you have this integrity to you they want to have you around i think
Guest:Yeah, it's this perceived integrity.
Guest:I mean, they kept me around at Letterman because they wanted Conan writers there, you know.
Marc:It's politics, politics.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, I get it.
Marc:They were thinking, like, we have done everything twice.
Marc:Literally everything.
Marc:I mean, the amount of shit that Letterman show invented over the years and that they tried riffing on that, you know, that Ernie Kovacs model, just hot riding and doing all... They did everything.
Guest:I remember when Letterman came out and I read, like, all the articles about it.
Guest:They always said...
Guest:We just wanted to do the opposite of The Tonight Show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then when Conan started, it was, let's do everything opposite that Letterman would do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So are we doing The Tonight Show now?
Marc:But you were at SNL too?
Guest:No, I was never at SNL.
Marc:Oh, you didn't do that?
Guest:No.
Marc:All right.
Marc:How'd you avoid that?
Marc:They must have offered it to you.
Guest:No, no, no one ever offered it to me.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:But you work with Smigel.
Guest:I work with Smigel.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you know, I did voices for his cartoons and I think I got a credit on one of the cartoons for writing because I threw in a joke.
Guest:Very, very.
Guest:giving in that way.
Guest:But I remember I did pitch an idea.
Guest:I wrote a sketch for SNL when Janine Garofalo was on.
Guest:She said, you should you should put it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Pitch it or bring it into the table.
Guest:Read.
Guest:And I did it and it didn't get on.
Guest:It actually ended up on Mr. Show years later.
Guest:but it was it had three songs in it and i worked with that music the musical what was his name sure g oh right right g smith something g smith g smith right could it be g smith yes oh interesting because i think so g general electric yeah he ike like he i thought he was a good musician but i i hated watching him play
Marc:Right.
Guest:I just see him.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He was irritating.
Guest:But anyway, so he learned all, you know, all the songs and taught them to the actors.
Guest:And who was it?
Guest:It was Michael McKeon.
Guest:Yeah, it was Michael McKeon.
Guest:And he knew I knew he knew the songs and I was just there as a writer to watch.
Guest:And mine got it was like a two hour read.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was not even in the room.
Guest:It was like just crowded.
Guest:And I was in the hallway just watching.
Guest:And it came time and they started doing my sketch and came time to do the song.
Guest:And Michael McKeon, you know, G.E.
Guest:Smith's playing on guitar.
Guest:Michael McKeon did not come in.
Guest:He's like, I don't know this song.
Guest:And G. Smith said, where's the guy who wrote this?
Guest:And I'm like, here.
Guest:He's like, sing it.
Guest:So I had to sing like three songs.
Guest:And I'm not a singer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And no laughs, nothing.
Guest:And by the end, Gene Garofalo said, sorry.
Guest:You know, Michael McKeon said he knew that.
Guest:the words i don't know why you didn't sing them and it was just it just threw me under the bus completely right you know yeah um so even if i at that point although i doubt it even if i had any aspirations to be on snl i that gave me a taste of right fucked up it was there right now it did um
Marc:Smigel.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now you guys seem to have similar sensibility.
Marc:Am I wrong?
Marc:He's a little nicer.
Guest:You think he's nice?
Marc:I don't know him that well.
Guest:No, he's a great guy.
Guest:He's great.
Marc:But there's something that sort of infantilized grown-up stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Guest:I think, yeah, Robert and I and Conan especially, you know, and Louis adapted to it well only.
Guest:I don't think Louis naturally goes for like the childish stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I think, yeah, Conan and I and Smigel really came together on that.
Marc:Yeah, and that was the tone.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we loved cartoons.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you prefer animated in general?
Marc:I mean, working in animation?
Guest:I do, because I'm kind of a control freak, so you get to control everything.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:Even if someone doesn't get a line right in voiceover, you just put five takes together.
Guest:And you can make it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, so that makes sense.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like fascist comedy.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It's actually called Mary Shelley's Frankenhole.
Guest:Is it on yet?
Guest:Yeah, it was on first season, 10 episodes, and we're writing second season now.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:I don't want to talk about it.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:It'll bore you, silly.
Marc:Okay, well then tell me how the hell you ended up on Community.
Marc:Oh, you're friends with Harmon.
Guest:Yeah, I met Harmon at the Rustic Inn, and I got him a couple jobs that I was writing on, and then he brought me on.
Marc:Threw you a bone?
Guest:Threw me a bone, and at one point, I get a text from him saying, you're going to be Starburns.
Guest:Do you watch the show at all?
Marc:I've watched a couple.
Marc:I didn't see yours.
Guest:it's just a character who has stars for sideburns.
Marc:And you don't have them now, so.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I just thought it would be a one-time part, and now I'm kind of a reoccurring actor on a television show.
Marc:You like it?
Marc:No.
Marc:You like working with Chevy?
No.
Guest:You know, I like Chevy.
Guest:I do.
Guest:He has a reputation for being a dick, and that reputation is earned.
Guest:But, you know, now he's an old guy who's kind of a little confused.
Marc:He's still Chevy.
Guest:Yeah, he doesn't hurt me.
Guest:I think all he needs is a little respect and he'll be fine.
Guest:And I think a lot of the cast right now didn't grow up with Chevy Chase and don't give a shit about him and don't care about any of his stories.
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:Is that guy in the set?
Guest:I don't know if he is anymore.
Guest:He certainly started being that guy.
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:But, you know, I mean, I would... I was actually excited to meet him, you know?
Marc:I was, too.
Marc:I did a roast of his, and then I just... I was hurt by him.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:He could be a jerk.
Guest:Believe me.
Guest:I did a...
Guest:uh, a sketch on Conan that took like weeks to write.
Guest:It was like this big musical number.
Guest:And he came out after it, after there.
Guest:And he said, go to that bit.
Guest:That was, uh, that was stupid.
Guest:God.
Guest:But I would not give away that story for anything in the world.
Guest:I love that Chevy Chase shit on me.
Marc:And did you get that pang of pain when he said it?
Guest:Oh, I got it, yeah.
Guest:I mean, at the time.
Marc:So that kind of pain's not the same as the dominatrix pain.
Guest:But the story is great.
Marc:All of it was great, man.
Marc:I appreciate you coming by.
Guest:Thanks.
Marc:You feel good?
Marc:You feel good about it?
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:It was fun.
Marc:All right, buddy.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:I sure did.
Marc:He's one of a kind, that dude.
Marc:Well, listen, I know I've plugged this a few times.
Marc:Let me just go over it again.
Marc:The WTF app is free for the month of March.
Marc:And once you get it, you can upgrade and get every past episode.
Marc:I know a lot of you are into that.
Marc:So you can do that.
Marc:Or you can get every past episode streaming on your desktop.
Marc:That's with the WTF Premium account.
Marc:Just go to wtfpod.com, click the Get Podcast, and go no iTunes, and you'll be taken there for that option.
Marc:And also, get on the mailing list.
Marc:Kick in a few shekels.
Marc:Go to justcoffee.coop.
Marc:Get yourself some coffee.
Marc:Get some WTF blend.
Marc:You're going to get a little on the back end of that.
Marc:Do whatever you've got to do.
Marc:As you can tell, I'm still a little sick.
Marc:I'm going to go take care of myself.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed the show.
Marc:I will talk to you soon.
you