Episode 1494 - Taylor Williamson
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:It's what the fuck Hanukkah.
Guest:What?
Marc:That didn't work.
Marc:Happy Hanukkah.
Marc:First night of Hanukkah.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:What are you doing on the big first night of Hanukkah?
Marc:You going to light that candle?
Marc:Those two candles?
Marc:You going to say the little things?
Marc:The little prayers?
Marc:You going to do it, Jews?
Marc:I'm sort of hit or miss in and out with the candle lighting.
Marc:It's always pretty good because I always have candles left over from when I decide either the year before or two years ago to go ahead and do it, even if I'm alone.
Marc:Just go ahead and do it.
Marc:Connect with the...
Marc:the tradition, the heritage, the legacy, the history of the Jewish people.
Marc:Go ahead, buy a box.
Marc:I've gotten fancy candles, but I never really go the full ride.
Marc:So I always have enough candles left.
Marc:to make me feel like I'm going to try again.
Marc:So I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure I probably have at least five or six candles from one to two to three years ago that will enable me to light at least two nights worth of candles.
Marc:There's just something about it.
Marc:And most of my partners over the years have not been Jewish.
Marc:And I've talked about it before.
Marc:There's the whole sort of doing that thing in front of the non-Jewish girlfriend.
Marc:That's always an exciting kind of almost embarrassing.
Marc:But it depends how you handle it moment.
Marc:But I've done it.
Marc:I've done it.
Marc:I was at the comedy store last night.
Marc:And man.
Marc:I've never seen this in the history of the comedy store.
Marc:Maybe I don't remember it, but there are massive, massive Christmas decorations in the main room.
Marc:I'm talking giant boxes, like parade float size, fake gift boxes on either side of the main room stage.
Marc:Huge.
Marc:Like it's just an overwhelming, there's a tree there.
Marc:It was, it was bordering on antisemitic in its exclusion and
Marc:of the Jewish representation.
Marc:Then I get up on stage last night and I realize, oh, there is a menorah up here.
Marc:The color of the boxes and the trees and the greenery of Christmas, huge, all over the stage.
Marc:And then, you know, almost tucked away, stage right, there's one menorah.
Marc:It's this angular, ugly, black...
Marc:oversized menorah it almost it almost looks like you know the death star somehow you know amongst the the christmas gifts and and ornaments and festivity just this angular jet black oversized menorah just sitting alone on on a pedestal of some some sort and it looked menacing it looked like a a stealth bomber amidst the uh the decor and
Marc:I brought I brought attention to it.
Marc:You bet I did.
Marc:The one thing I remember growing up is there was always a scramble to find a kippah, a yarmulke for you non-Jews, the Jew beanie.
Marc:It was always a scramble.
Marc:You know, did we have them?
Marc:Were there some around?
Marc:Did we steal enough from the synagogue?
Marc:Was there what drawer are they in?
Marc:I just remember at different points during my childhood that my father had a range of things that he would put on his head in lieu of kippah.
Marc:I think there was napkins were used.
Marc:I believe maybe comedically there's a picture of him lighting the candles with a pair of underwear on his head.
Marc:I guess it doesn't really matter as long as it's covered.
Marc:But we'll see.
Marc:We'll see if I do it.
Marc:I'll let you know.
Marc:Maybe I'll post a picture.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:I got to see if I got a candle or two.
Marc:I'm going to need two to start.
Marc:So look, today on the show...
Marc:Taylor Williamson is here.
Marc:He's a comedian.
Marc:I kind of I didn't really know him, to be honest with you.
Marc:And I tell him this to his face.
Marc:I used to see him.
Marc:I always kind of wondered what he did for years.
Marc:I would see this guy.
Marc:And then one night I watched him and I'm like, holy shit, this guy's got his own thing going.
Marc:He's got a thing, this guy, and it's uniquely his.
Marc:And then I watched his special and I'm like, wow, I had no idea when I was kind of like ignoring this person for years that he really has the goods.
Marc:So Taylor Williamson is here.
Marc:You might know him because he did get and I don't know these things.
Marc:He got big national exposure on America's Got Talent.
Marc:He just released a new comedy special on YouTube, Taylor Williamson, live from the Comedy Store.
Marc:And I talked to him about that title.
Marc:But it was a good conversation.
Marc:And it was good comic talk.
Marc:And it was good getting to know the guy.
Marc:And I believe he's going to open for me a bit on my upcoming dates.
Marc:Where, you ask?
Marc:I'm not sure, but I can tell you what the dates are.
Marc:Los Angeles.
Marc:I'm at Largo on December 12th and January 9th.
Marc:Dynasty Typewriter on December 13th, 28th.
Marc:and The Elysian on December 15th and 22nd.
Marc:I'm in San Diego at the Observatory North Park on Saturday, January 27th for two shows.
Marc:Get in.
Marc:Get on to that second show, folks.
Marc:I think Taylor's actually opening for me on that one.
Marc:And I believe maybe this one, too.
Marc:San Francisco at the Castro Theater on Saturday, February 3rd.
Marc:I'll be introducing a screening of McCabe and Mrs. Miller on February 4th at the Roxy in San Francisco.
Marc:Get tickets at Roxy, R-O-X-I-E dot com.
Marc:Portland, Maine.
Marc:I'm at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th.
Marc:Medford, Massachusetts.
Marc:I'm outside Boston at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th.
Marc:The Chevalier Theater.
Marc:Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th.
Marc:Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th.
Marc:Atlanta, Georgia.
Marc:I'm at the Buckhead Theater on Friday, March 22nd.
Marc:And just announced I'll be in Austin, Texas at the Paramount Theater on Thursday, April 18th as part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com slash tour for tickets.
Marc:And, uh...
Marc:Yeah, that's what's happening.
Marc:Man, I've been working a lot.
Marc:I just hit the ground running when I got back.
Marc:And I've been watching more movies lately.
Marc:I watched a movie last night that I didn't even want to watch.
Marc:I don't know how many times I'm going to fall for that trick on myself where I'm like, all right, so I'm just going to check out this movie I know nothing about that didn't get particularly good ratings, but it's got Benicio del Toro in it.
Marc:What the fuck was that called?
Marc:I just watched it last night, some detective movie with Justin Timberlake and Alicia Silverstone and fuck.
Marc:It's one word.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Reptile.
Marc:It's called Reptile.
Marc:It's some sort of detective story about a cop who was, you know, kind of put in a bad position in Philadelphia and had to leave and get to a smaller place because his partner was corrupt.
Marc:And then, like, the entire movie went by.
Marc:And this doesn't happen too often.
Marc:And I'm definitely not as sharp as I'd like to think I am.
Marc:But I have no fucking idea.
Marc:What happened at the end?
Marc:There's a little added bit at the end that had to do with him removing some sort of covering on his hand.
Marc:I don't know what.
Marc:Could somebody please tell me what the ending of that movie was about?
Marc:What was that?
Marc:Was he a bad guy?
Marc:Was he a good guy?
Marc:Somebody please tell me what the fuck the ending of Reptile is about.
Marc:All right, that's done.
Marc:I watched Barbie again because...
Marc:had to talk to Greta Gerwig again, and I was more than happy to watch it.
Marc:And it affected me in exactly the same way.
Marc:I was completely engaged and moved.
Marc:I laughed again at jokes, and that never happens.
Marc:I can't explain it to you, but I did talk to Greta yesterday.
Marc:And when I put that up, I think we figured it out.
Marc:I think we figured out
Marc:what it is that happens to me when I watch musicals or happy movies and it has something to do with joy and my inability to generate it from within and my aversion to it from without, from outside of me.
Marc:And that when I'm pummeled with joy, I have no choice but to experience it.
Marc:And I think that is what happens when I watch musicals.
Marc:Another thing I'd like to talk about today, if I could, is the passing of Norman Lear at 101 years old.
Marc:Norman Lear beat Henry Kissinger, which is good.
Marc:I mean, maybe that means that maybe good might beat evil.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But he made it to 101, and I interviewed him in 2014.
Marc:It's episode 555, and it's an amazing conversation.
Marc:It was overwhelming to spend time with that guy.
Marc:And, you know, he was in his 90s, obviously.
Marc:But just the scope, just the the history of him in show business going back to early television, you know, right around the end of radio, as I recall, and then kind of, you know, figuring out this zone to to be progressive.
Marc:through, you know, very engaged satire in a way.
Marc:I think you would call all in the family satire, the Jeffersons in a way.
Marc:But to really use humor to be, you know, to engage all sides of the human experience around, you know, politics, social movements and
Marc:generational points of view and just to sort of rub these things up against each other to create something funny and ultimately embracing of humanity and of the possibilities of democracy, tolerance and progressive goals.
Marc:Nobody like them.
Marc:And if you look at the roster of the shows, I'm sure you will find he had a profound effect on your life and on the world.
Marc:And it's really an amazing thing when somebody dies at 101 where you don't freak out.
Marc:You're like, oh, my God, what happened?
Marc:He was 101.
Marc:There's no idiots on Twitter saying, like, was he vaxxed?
Marc:It's just he had a good life.
Marc:He had an engaged life.
Marc:He was creatively working, you know, right up till the end of his life.
Marc:And it was an honor to spend time with that guy.
Marc:Rest in peace, Norman Lear.
Marc:And thank you for your amazing.
Marc:contributions to culture, even though now it seems that it's on fire.
Marc:I'll give you a quick cat update.
Marc:Everyone's fine.
Marc:Charlie's an asshole.
Marc:Sammy...
Marc:oddly, is coming around somehow.
Marc:Sammy is a little touched.
Marc:I'm not sure how.
Marc:Like, he's the kind of cat that, you know, is prone to just, out of nowhere, weird fits of scratching frenzies and chasing his tail and twitching, and then it goes away in about 15 seconds.
Marc:Happens occasionally.
Marc:Occasionally, he's just running around for no reason.
Marc:He enjoys eating the sticky part of Post-its and envelopes.
Marc:But, you know, him and I were not, I didn't feel like we were locked in.
Marc:And not unlike a lot of cats.
Marc:You know, he's only a couple years old, two years and change, but sometimes they just have to grow into whatever it is and you have to grow into whatever they are.
Marc:You got to lock into their frequency and then figure out where you guys meet.
Marc:But all of a sudden, I think Sammy's like, you know, it turns out he's one of my best friends.
Marc:And it wasn't heading that direction.
Marc:And Charlie is definitely my guy.
Marc:You know, Sammy and Buster hang out with each other.
Marc:They're all my guys, but Sammy is deeply involved with Buster.
Marc:It's very gay.
Marc:And Buster takes it, but they usually sleep together.
Marc:But Charlie's like definitely following me around and doing my thing.
Marc:But now when I sit on the couch, Sammy will just come and just plop his ass right down on my lap.
Marc:And they're not really looking like he's enjoying it, but something's happening.
Marc:And just for you people that keep up with this, Sammy's.
Marc:Off the shit list and now it seems is gunning for the number one title.
Marc:For the number one position, Sammy Smushy.
Marc:The smusher is coming in hot right now.
Marc:We'll see how that pans out.
Marc:But seriously, if anyone knows what the fuck happens at the end of Reptile, let me know.
Marc:I'm not even plugging this movie because clearly I had a problem with it.
Marc:let me know.
Marc:Is he a bad guy or is he a good guy?
Marc:What was the thing he was taking off his hand?
Marc:What the fuck did I miss in that incredibly convoluted, complicated screenplay?
Marc:And why was I up till 1245 watching it when I just wanted to get a little taste of Benicio?
Marc:Why?
Marc:Why did that happen?
Marc:Why am I only sleeping?
Marc:Why am I only sleeping like five to six hours a night?
Marc:What is happening?
Marc:Is time running out?
Marc:Where are we at?
Marc:Okay, look, Taylor Williamson is funny.
Marc:Didn't know that for a long time.
Marc:His new special, Taylor Williamson Live at the Comedy Store, is now streaming on Taylor's YouTube channel.
Marc:He's headlining The Punchline in San Francisco tonight through Saturday.
Marc:You can go to taylorwilliamson.com to see all his tour dates into the next year.
Marc:And this is me literally getting to know Taylor Williamson.
Guest:Can I show you something cool I found?
Guest:This is from New York Magazine in 2006.
Guest:They did a little article on a Los Angeles comedy scene.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And they did like groundlings and the improv and whatever.
Guest:So they had like the superstar.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So like for the improv, they put like the legends, Robbie Williams and like the current people.
Guest:It was you and Patton Oswalt.
Guest:And then named to watch, it says 19-year-old cerebral wit, Taylor Williamson.
Marc:There you are, right next to me.
Marc:Featuring crowd pleasers like Mark and Patton Oswalt on a Saturday night.
Marc:What year is this?
Guest:2006.
Guest:So can I tell you how that happened, too?
Marc:Well, I mean, you were living here?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, yeah.
Guest:So do you remember Cassandra in the box office, the sweet woman?
Guest:She adored you.
Guest:At the store?
Guest:At the improv.
Marc:Oh, at the improv.
Guest:She had short, blonde hair.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And eccentric, is that the word?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Character.
Marc:What happened to that girl?
Guest:I'm not sure, but I know that this probably didn't help her career there because she got in trouble for this because she answered the phone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm just something open mic or kid, you know, a couple spots, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But she answered the phone and they're like, who's the comedians that we should look out for?
Guest:And then she just gave her opinion.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's the ticket booth lady.
Marc:Oh, that's hilarious.
Guest:So she spoke on behalf of the improv and got me a little magazine.
Marc:And you were just an open-miker?
Guest:Well, yeah, you know.
Guest:I got past the improv when I was, like, 18.
Guest:I had a whole thing.
Guest:Bud Friedman saw me and stuff.
Marc:Because, like, I did that once when Rolling Stone asked me who were the comics to watch, and everyone I named went nowhere.
Right.
Marc:I mean, they're good comics, and I liked them, like Amber Preston and Ryan Singer.
Marc:I'm like, they're the one.
Marc:And they're out there, but it didn't, you know, I'm not a good, I don't have a good eye for stars.
Marc:Well, it took me 20 years to get on your show, so maybe that's consistent.
Guest:But that's like, but okay, so.
Guest:But Arnold was just on a couple months ago, and it's been a long time to get here, too.
Marc:It did.
Marc:It did.
Marc:And he'd been wanting to a long time.
Marc:And I was just sort of like, not yet.
Marc:Decades.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm like, he's not ready.
Marc:I need him to pay his dues for a couple more years.
Marc:Do you have everything you need?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're one of those gallon of water guys.
Guest:I was ready for this conversation.
Guest:I am this morning.
Guest:But it's just because I needed water and I was in a hurry.
Marc:Yeah, but like how much is in there?
Marc:How much goes in there?
Marc:A gallon?
Marc:Is that a gallon?
Marc:It's one gallon.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Very good.
Marc:I mean, I'm a grown-up person.
Marc:You can kind of, you know, look at something.
Marc:I know it's not a half gallon.
Guest:Well, how many fluid ounces?
Guest:What does the FL stand?
Marc:It would be like one...
Marc:128.
Guest:Very good.
Guest:Do you know how many liters, though?
Marc:No.
Guest:Smartass?
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:I don't.
Guest:Do you?
Guest:I do, actually.
Guest:Off the top of my head, it's 3.78 liters.
Marc:Now put that bottle down and say it again.
Marc:Ha ha ha!
Marc:I'm going to ask you in five minutes.
Guest:I couldn't even tell you how many gallons there are now without looking.
Marc:Yeah, it's weird because I watched the special.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Guest:Yeah, what am I not going to watch?
Guest:I'm so sorry that you tattooed that.
Marc:No, it was funny and it was enjoyable.
Marc:Was that all of it?
Guest:You know, I don't give the people too much, you know?
Guest:I don't give them too much.
Guest:Leave them wanting more, you know?
Marc:Because, like, I don't think, not to be rude, but, like, I don't... Oh, Jesus Christ.
Marc:Yeah, take it easy.
Marc:I'd seen you around, you know, and you were just one of those guys that was around, and, like, I'm not always in the showroom usually, sometimes one or two before I go on or whatever.
Marc:But I think it took me years.
Marc:I always saw you, but I think it took me years to just be in the room when you were on.
Marc:I'm like, oh, this guy's a funny guy.
Okay.
Yeah.
Marc:He's got his own thing.
Marc:I just, I always knew him as this guy wandered around.
Marc:I think because I'm older, I've lost touch with the generational thing.
Marc:Like, I kind of know my generation.
Marc:I know the one before me and the one after me-ish.
Marc:But then, you know, once you get to two away, which I think you probably are.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm kind of like in a fog.
Marc:And then with new people, like door people getting passed and stuff, I have no idea.
Guest:Yeah, I'm at the point I'm 20 years in, and now when there's like a new door person, I'm like, I'm done learning names, especially post-COVID.
Guest:I'm like, I'm never learning anyone's name.
Marc:I was never good at it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's yours?
Marc:Yeah, I was going to say, I didn't even know you were in here.
Marc:You set me up.
Marc:It was easy.
Marc:It was easy.
Guest:20 years, dude.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:I'm 37.
Guest:I had a weird journey.
Guest:You and one of your exes were really nice to me when I was like 18, 19, hanging at the improv.
Marc:Mishna?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:So where'd you grow up?
Guest:Here?
Guest:Del Mar, near La Jolla.
Guest:I started in La Jolla.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:In 19 or 2000?
Guest:2003.
Guest:So you were how old when you started?
Guest:17.
Guest:Really?
Guest:High school.
Guest:I saw on the Comedy Store website they had a comedy class.
Guest:I'm a 17-year-old kid.
Guest:I don't know how anything works.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And it was taught by, rest in peace, Sandy Seashore.
Guest:Sandy Shore, yeah.
Marc:Holly's sister.
Marc:I know Sandy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, that's what she was doing, huh?
Guest:In La Jolla.
Guest:I was like, I'm under 21 because it's 21 and up.
Guest:Can I...
Guest:Can I come perform?
Guest:She's like, yeah, you can take my class.
Guest:I'm like, all right.
Guest:I didn't know you could just do open mics without taking a class.
Marc:So you grew up outside of La Jolla.
Marc:What's your real name?
Guest:Taylor Williamson.
Guest:Is this a Jewish thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My mom's Jewish.
Marc:I'm Jewish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But your dad's not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:By the way, I'm so on this Jewish kick right now.
Marc:Well, you kind of have to be.
Guest:And when people... Like last night, this person said, my mom is Jewish.
Guest:And then she was like, I don't know.
Guest:I'm like, oh, I get so mad with that.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:You can't be like, oh, my mom's Italian, but I'm not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then Jewish people don't have that... I'm not religious.
Guest:I'm like, I think I'm similar to how you present yourself as...
Marc:No, both of my parents were Jews.
Marc:So you're.
Marc:Well, according to the Torah.
Marc:I understand.
Marc:But we know.
Marc:We all know.
Guest:We know.
Guest:But like 23 of me says I'm Ashkenazi Jewish.
Guest:And then the propaganda.
Marc:How much percent though?
Guest:50%.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:So you're half Jewish.
Guest:I'm going to have a midlife crisis right now.
Marc:You know what it said when I looked?
Marc:99% Ashkenazi.
Guest:It's like 23 minutes.
Guest:Like, okay, calm down.
Marc:We get it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Jew.
Marc:They didn't even put a number.
Marc:No percentages.
Guest:But this is what my loving mother always told me as a child.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:This is my bedtime story.
Guest:It was...
Guest:Just so you know, even though your name's Taylor Williamson, when the Nazis came back, they would take you.
Guest:So that's how you know you're Jewish.
Marc:Thank you, Mom.
Marc:But is that what you're thinking about now?
Marc:How are you on a Jewish kick?
Guest:Well, I mean, the stuff going on is pretty wild, you know, and it's very scary.
Guest:It's horrendous.
Guest:And, like, I'm doing this bit on stage, but it's, like, how I feel, too.
Guest:It's like, should I—my name's Taylor John Williamson, and I have this face, you know?
Guest:So I could just pretend I was never Jewish and take down my bar mitzvah photos, you know?
Guest:Or do—
Guest:or do I get my foreskin put back on, you know?
Marc:Oh, yeah, and go the whole route.
Guest:Or should I just be proud?
Guest:I'm Jewish, and I'm proud to be who I am, and in sincerity, it's making me relate a lot to, like, the gay community, how they...
Guest:And they have pride parades and then people like white people get mad or whatever, like basic people get mad and go, why do they have pride parades?
Guest:Why can't we have white pride parades?
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:It's because people want them to die for being just who they are, just existing.
Guest:So the only healthy reaction is to be proudly who you are.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:So that's the kick I'm on right now.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, well, that makes sense.
Marc:You know, the gay community, in order to become a community and out and public and proud of who they were, really had to lean into that.
Marc:And I think the Jews, the weird thing, it is similar with Jews, too, because it's one of the things I've been reading about in terms of trying to understand black anti-Semitism.
Yeah.
Marc:You know, the Jews and the blacks were aligned, you know, during civil rights and during, you know, community organizing and voter drives.
Marc:I mean, there was a time when progressive Jews were part of that experience because they identified.
Marc:But the bottom line is Jews are white and they can always pretend not to be Jewish, you know, and not only could they pass, but ultimately they found their way into, you know, Jewish owned businesses and black neighborhoods and then built these, you know, these kind of almost villainous
Marc:presence with slumlords and pawn shops.
Marc:I mean, have you ever watched The Pawn Broker with Rod Steiger?
Marc:No.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:Record executives.
Marc:I mean, it just really became that whatever the alignment was is that Jews can disappear into the whiteness.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Blacks cannot.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And in the same with gays in terms of being closeted.
Marc:But there comes a point where in order for the community to remain strong, you have to own it.
Marc:I've been doing a joke about that.
Marc:What did I say?
Marc:It's pretty new.
Marc:When on stage I go, it's a pretty bad time to be a Jew.
Marc:And then I go, but wasn't it always?
Marc:I don't think there's ever been a time in history where a Jew has said, what an amazing time to be a Jew right now.
Guest:And you're lucky that you can— That I'm 100% Jewish?
Guest:Yeah, I'm jealous.
Guest:I have some envy.
Guest:By the way, I have a friend who found out he's not Jewish at all, did 23andMe, and that's a whole thing.
Guest:That's a whole therapy thing.
Guest:He was brought up Jewish?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No shit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was totally his family.
Guest:Was he adopted?
Guest:No, it's just his parents.
Guest:Down the line, his parents were adopted.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:About that back then, you know?
Marc:But that counts.
Marc:I mean, he's still Jewish.
Guest:That's what I said.
Guest:I genuinely feel the same, but... Fuck with him?
Guest:Huh?
Guest:Fucking with him?
Guest:Is fucking with him?
Guest:Oh, it is.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I thought you said, are you fucking with him?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Yeah, you Gentile.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Not you.
Marc:Like the...
Marc:Yeah, but he's going to make the cut.
Marc:He's not going to, you know, he won't get put against the wall.
Marc:Is that how that works?
Marc:I don't know that someone stole millions and millions of genetic information from 23andMe.
Marc:I imagine they're sort of making lists somewhere.
Guest:But I've said I'm Jewish on stage, and then I've had Jewish people come up to me, accusing me of pretending to be Jewish to tell jokes.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, who did that?
Guest:When I did this America's Got Talent tour, like, five years ago, I was on this... I had this thing where if I'm making fun of everyone, I should make fun of myself, too, you know?
Guest:And, like, also, like... I like talking about being Jewish on stage, whatever.
Guest:It's not my whole act.
Guest:It's like two minutes, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But I'm like... So, the joke I would do every night... I'm hosting a variety show.
Guest:This is not my best joke for anyone who's learning about me now.
Guest:I'm not proud of this, but it's easy laugh, quick joke, whatever.
Guest:So, I'd say...
Guest:Every night I go like, I'm Jewish.
Guest:Any Jewish people here?
Guest:And then every time it's just one person in Tulsa, Oklahoma, clapping in the balcony.
Guest:I'm like, of course, the cheap seats.
Guest:And then now I would not make that joke.
Guest:I've evolved differently or whatever.
Marc:But four times.
Marc:I would do with that joke.
Marc:It's like, all right, well, now everyone knows who you are.
Marc:Right.
Right.
Guest:Well, that's another – so four times on that tour, people came up to me and said, are you really Jewish?
Guest:How dare you make fun of Jewish?
Guest:Someone sent me an email saying – that's all I said.
Guest:Someone sent me an email saying, how dare you make fun of Jewish people on the anniversary of Kristallnacht.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And I'm just like – but have you experienced this?
Marc:But were these Jews, I assume?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The ones that didn't raise their hand?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Exactly, by the way.
Guest:The better seats.
Guest:But what I found is I talk about being Jewish on stage and I go, there are any Jews here and no one raises their hands.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:For the joke you're saying of like, you know.
Guest:And then in my meet and greet, every time someone goes up to me and they go, I'm Jewish, but you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I know, because people—it's scary to say you're Jewish.
Guest:It's before this passage.
Marc:My dad is literally like, you know, and has for years, like, maybe you should pull back on because people were killing Jews.
Marc:I'm like, you know, I get that.
Marc:And maybe—
Marc:My courage is more bravado and provocateur.
Marc:I do feel like it's important to publicly say with confidence that you're a Jew and draw light to it and draw light to anti-Semitism.
Marc:But when you do that, especially as things get worse, you're sort of like, oh, God.
Marc:I'm asking clubs, do they scan?
Marc:I mean, I really need them to have a scanner for people coming in.
Marc:Do you really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it's like, look, I'm not that public.
Marc:I'm not that big a star.
Marc:Like, I'm not necessarily like he's one of the spokesmen for the Jews, but it doesn't matter.
Marc:You know, you're going, I'm going to Denver.
Marc:Allen Berg.
Marc:was gunned down in Denver, you know, the talk radio guy.
Marc:I just played him in a movie.
Marc:I went and got gunned down in Canada pretending like it was Denver for this movie.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And I'm like, maybe that'll get my karma straight and it won't happen in real life.
Oh, man.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, again, not to make this the Jewish episode, but, like, there's more.
Marc:Well, they'd probably just maim you because you're half.
Guest:But there's more.
Guest:They talk about security.
Guest:There's more security at a Jewish preschool down my house than there is at the comedy store.
Marc:Truly.
Marc:Comedy store's gotten a lot better, dude.
Guest:They've gotten better respect, you know?
Marc:I mean, they're serious over there.
Marc:They watch that shit.
Guest:Have you ever had an incident, like a physical altercation at a show?
Guest:No.
Marc:No, but I've had uncomfortable exchanges that you don't know, given the climate, how far they go.
Marc:So you're a Jew, huh?
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Yeah, hey, bust balls a little bit, but then it gets a little menacing.
Marc:Like, what are you doing now?
Marc:I'm going to try to slip away from you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm going to probably walk around the building a couple times so you don't know where I park or which hotel I'm staying at, but thanks for coming to the show.
Marc:But I think one of the benefits now with me is that most people are coming to see me.
Marc:Anybody who randomly goes to a comedy club and then are disappointed, it's like they have an internet.
Marc:You put my name in it and see what you're getting into.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But it still happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I had a bridal party in...
Marc:you know, bachelorette party in St.
Marc:Louis.
Marc:I'm like, why?
Marc:What made you think that I was the guy for this?
Marc:You know?
Marc:But, all right, so do you have siblings?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have an older brother.
Guest:Does he say he's Jewish?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but he's not going on your podcast talking about it.
Marc:But so your mom put you through the paces.
Marc:You did the bar mitzvah and you did everything?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, I did.
Guest:I'm a single mom deal.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I fit a lot of the stereotypes of what makes you a comedian kind of thing, you know?
Guest:I don't know what those are.
Guest:You know, like you have like some stuff in your childhood and a broken home.
Marc:Who doesn't?
Guest:Who doesn't?
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:So what happened to the old man?
Guest:My parents got divorced when I was little, and then I would see him every other weekend.
Guest:He's around?
Guest:He's around.
Guest:He's out there.
Guest:I just saw him for the first time in many, many years.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It was a wild interesting thing.
Marc:Early on, though, he was in the same town, and you just shared custody kind of deal?
Guest:Yeah, he's still there.
Guest:Still there?
Guest:He's still there.
Guest:He's still where I left him.
Guest:Since I was 12, I've seen him five or six times.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:You know, just divorced parents putting kids against each other and then not having all the tools that parents need to do it healthy, you know?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And me and my brother got caught up in that stuff.
Marc:What, you and your brother were fighting over it?
Guest:No, I mean the kids got caught up in all that stuff.
Guest:When I was 12, I said, I don't want to see you anymore because I would come home sad all the time.
Guest:There's a lot of parents talking to each other.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:and yelling yeah all that yeah not good not fun but I just reconnected with him and there was and I had all these questions after what how many years yeah uh 20 really five years I've seen him like at a funeral or something like Taylor nice to see you I'm like okay this is weird you know wow and your brother too
Guest:No, he's been talking to him.
Marc:The whole time?
Guest:Yeah, the last few years, yeah.
Guest:It's a whole complicated thing.
Guest:But what's wild is he has aphasia, which is the thing Bruce Willis has.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he got it from a brain injury.
Guest:He hit his head.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's kind of like someone wrote it in a story.
Guest:I have all these questions about my childhood, what really happened, what's the real thing.
Guest:And there's not answers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's like such a fucking, what a joke of life.
Guest:He got off the hook.
Guest:Yeah, those are the things that make me think God exists when that happens.
Guest:It's like, oh, God's funny.
Marc:But now you have to sort of let it go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, my dad's got dementia, but he's still got all the old memories.
Marc:So he's still in the phase that where you get too much information.
Marc:You're like, I mean, I didn't need to know that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, like the other day I was like, just slightly casual racist stuff.
Marc:And I'm like, really?
Marc:And he's like, yeah.
Marc:And I'm like, all right.
Marc:You know, or he says like, what was the other thing?
Marc:Like, he just doesn't give a fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He was already kind of selfish, but, like, you know, he had just gone to, like, a family reunion with all his cousins and stuff.
Marc:And I'm like, well, how was that?
Marc:You know, seeing all the cousins, he's like, nah, it's not my thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It is freeing, though, when you—I mean, not that I've been like that, but, like, when you just don't give a fuck anymore, like, then you can just—like, my mom's husband is dying from cancer.
Guest:And, like, just knowing that he can be like, I don't want to do that.
Guest:I don't want to go there.
Guest:I want this.
Guest:This is what I want.
Guest:Like, you can just be like, yeah.
Marc:Oh, he's making decisions around how he wants to ride it out?
Marc:It's a whole thing, yeah.
Marc:Was he, like, your stepdad or her husband?
Marc:Her husband.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So your mom brought up both of you on her own, pretty much.
Guest:Yeah, she's a brilliant artist.
Guest:My mom's a brilliant artist.
Guest:Painter?
Guest:Yeah, she was, like, famous in Japan in the 90s, and she's a superstar, brilliant artist, one by Suzanne Marie.
Guest:And if you look at Suzanne Marie, she doesn't have a good internet presence, so there's a different person who shows up, unfortunately, most of the time.
Guest:But if you look up Suzanne Marie Fine Art Del Mar, you'll find her.
Guest:Absolutely brilliant artist and raised two kids off of art.
Guest:And so there's many...
Guest:parallels in our careers, which is really special.
Guest:With you and your mom?
Guest:Yeah, it was just the artist's life, you know?
Marc:She was doing art open mics?
Guest:Yeah, she took Richard Pryor's sister's comedy class in the 80s.
Marc:Yeah, she took like Ed Ruscha's nephew's painting class.
Guest:Can you cut out the 15 seconds it took for me to come up with that?
Guest:So it'd be witty.
Guest:Appreciate that.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:No problem.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:I trust you.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's okay.
Guest:Just trust.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, well, that's good because then she wasn't judgmental and she was probably supportive and creativity was a premium.
Guest:Yeah, it's funny.
Guest:Like, I dropped out of college because, for the right reasons, you know, because Todd Glass encouraged me to.
Okay.
Guest:When I was 20.
Guest:Where were you going to college?
Guest:I went to college.
Guest:So I started to stay up when I was 17 in high school.
Guest:And then I got into a college in San Diego.
Guest:And then I wanted to go to L.A.
Guest:and be a comedian.
Guest:And I'm a dumb kid.
Guest:Well, first of all, tell me, what was Sandy's class like?
Guest:So it was a bunch of mentally ill people going on stage and sharing their traumas.
Marc:Really?
Marc:And she was encouraging that?
Marc:Was there a structure?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:I mean, that's what comedy is in a lot of cases, not all cases.
Guest:You know, when I got from the class, like it's easy to hate on comedy classes because it's a lot of nonsense and all that.
Guest:I got comfortable on stage.
Guest:So it was like eight weeks of, I took it three times.
Guest:I didn't know any better, you know?
Guest:And it was all my work money from work.
Marc:But the payoff was you'd do a real night, right?
Guest:I got to do a real night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got to have a tape of me doing better than I actually did on stage because the crowd, I didn't invite anyone.
Guest:I didn't invite my family.
Guest:I didn't invite friends.
Guest:It was all just adults in the crowd.
Guest:It went amazing.
Guest:And so I got to perform in a real crowd with juiced up energy and enthusiasm and encouragement.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was the best, I just found the tape and at the end of my special there's like a 30 second clip of it, my first joke, after the credits.
Guest:And I got to do that and I got to have the manager watch me and decide he's never gonna book me.
Guest:Never.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I mean— He said that that's what you get when you graduate?
Guest:No, the manager— Well, the manager at the time, he watched me, and I'm 17, and I had that great set.
Guest:And he goes— I was like, I'd love to start doing spots at your club.
Guest:And he's like, I'm 32.
Guest:I've worked in the Shear Hill for eight years.
Guest:You think I'm just going to book you?
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, maybe.
Guest:Why not, right?
Guest:Wow!
Guest:But I've always had that kind of vibe from the club down there.
Marc:What happened to that guy?
Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I wish him well.
Guest:I'm sure he's doing fine.
Guest:I'm sure he's thriving.
Guest:Maybe he has aphasia.
Guest:He's probably on my comedians-to-watch list, probably.
Guest:Was he a comic?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but that's so fucked up because that was still a time when they were kind of the gatekeepers.
Marc:They were the ones that determined.
Marc:It wasn't TikTok or Numbers.
Marc:If you were coming up through a club and wanting to do just guest spots, if the guy who runs the place says, fuck off...
Marc:That was the end of it.
Guest:And what I appreciated, too, is very, I'm not booking you because you threatened me.
Marc:Well, yeah, he's jealous.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he's bitter.
Marc:And he's 32.
Marc:I mean, why did he throw the age in there?
Guest:Yeah, I didn't.
Guest:I just couldn't get more spots.
Marc:So, like, he was there for eight years and they wouldn't put him on?
Marc:He couldn't put himself on?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Wild.
Guest:And I got that for years down there.
Guest:In La Jolla.
Guest:Still, honestly, they see me as the kid.
Guest:I moved to New York.
Guest:I did Craig Ferguson.
Marc:But that was a problem with just coming up anywhere.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:But it's just that most comedians have that story of where you started, that's how they treat you.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:I went to New York.
Guest:I was on Craig Ferguson, Comedy Central, whatever.
Guest:I moved back to San Diego for like three months, like five years into comedy with all these credits.
Guest:I'm a real comedian.
Guest:And they put me on first first, like cold open first.
Guest:Five minutes?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, and I said, hey, I'd love to get a better spot.
Guest:I'm not being greedy, but like, first, first, I've been doing comedy longer.
Guest:I'm better than people.
Guest:I have credits.
Guest:Like, what is this?
Guest:And you got to hang out more, man.
Guest:Same guy?
Guest:Different guy.
Guest:Same asshole.
Marc:They pass along.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:The genes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that's part of the job.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're not going to name names.
Guest:But, you know, right.
Guest:But I don't know.
Guest:I'm trying to get better at...
Guest:All right, they don't want me.
Guest:Why do I keep fighting?
Guest:Why do I keep fighting to be loved by someone who doesn't want me?
Guest:That's not love.
Marc:That's business.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're just a little more vulnerable than most, and you're not going to fight them on it or go up the chain.
Guest:Dude, even when I was runner-up on America's Got Talent, and I was selling out and making tons of money, and I wanted a headline down there.
Guest:They gave me the worst deal I've ever gotten.
Guest:They go, you're family.
Guest:We're not going to give you a door deal.
Guest:You're family.
Marc:Oh, so what a benefit to being family.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so wait, so you're doing comedy, you're having this dynamic with this manager, Sandy Shore, you learned a little something there, and then what, you decided to go to college because you figured, why not get that under my belt?
Guest:Well, I needed an excuse to move to Los Angeles.
Marc:Oh, that was it?
Guest:I didn't tell people my family did comedy and stuff.
Guest:Like, I was very quiet and shy about it.
Guest:I don't want to risk, like, you're not funny, you're not good enough.
Guest:I would have destroyed me, you know?
Marc:Like, I have that kind of... Yeah, so where'd you go to college?
Marc:Cal State Northridge.
Marc:Oh, is that out by... By Northridge?
Marc:But it's a ways, by Riverside, right?
Marc:No, it's in the Valley.
Marc:Oh, Northridge.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's close.
Guest:So it was my excuse to move to L.A.
Guest:And like, oh, my God, I had such a confidence.
Guest:I don't know where it came from that I don't have anymore.
Guest:You're like 18, 19?
Guest:Yeah, 18.
Guest:And I remember emailing because I was like, the owner of the comedy store's daughter thinks I'm funny.
Guest:Yeah, I'm in.
Guest:And I'm in.
Guest:I remember like...
Guest:contacting Duncan Trussell, who was the booker at the time.
Marc:Yeah, I remember.
Guest:I worked at the Comedy Store, and they just laughed at me.
Guest:If they weren't even mean, they just laughed.
Guest:Because they know Sandy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And they know the shores.
Guest:Yeah, and they know I'm a crazy person who took the class, and she said she'll help you if she can.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I don't know if she was able to.
Marc:But Duncan was probably like, oh, man.
Guest:Yeah, he's always so sweet to me.
Marc:He got my name on the wall.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:After, you know, 20 years.
Marc:Like, it wasn't up there.
Marc:How weird.
Marc:And when I showed up in...
Marc:2002, you know, my reputation preceded me.
Marc:And Duncan was like, oh, man, you're Marc Maron.
Marc:And I'm like, can you get my name up on the wall?
Marc:He's like, yeah.
Guest:Oh, it's so special.
Marc:Isn't that wild?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was already, Mitzi passed me like in 95 in some weird way.
Marc:But I avoided the place because it was like a source of trigger trauma for me.
Marc:But when I came back in 2002, yeah, Duncan, you know, put me up there.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:And, you know, and Duncan was cool.
Marc:And Tommy was like, you know, I came back as a valid guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But that place was always a mind fuck to me.
Marc:I was always sort of like, can I, you know.
Marc:And I was doing it what?
Marc:You know, professionally since 88, 98.
Marc:So I've been doing it 12 or 13 years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it's still like, you know, I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It took me a long time to overcome that.
Marc:The ghosts of that place in my head.
Marc:Because I was out of my mind on Coke.
Marc:And I lived in Crest Hill.
Marc:I was a door guy.
Marc:I lived at the store.
Marc:And, you know, it was crazy.
Marc:But it was all kind of still in my mind.
Marc:And the first sets I did in the original room, I was like, I couldn't see the audience.
Marc:It was when they kept it real dark.
Marc:And I just felt like I was floating up there.
Marc:It took me a long time to just get a handle on it.
Guest:I still haven't figured that place out.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It stresses me out tremendously.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't give a fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love it on stage.
Guest:I mean, off stage.
Guest:Like, being around the halls and stuff.
Guest:And, like, post, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I love the place so much.
Guest:Like, I feel my special there.
Marc:Well, that's it.
Marc:Like, either you're going to have that draw to it or you're not.
Marc:Like, you know, to some people, it's like, this place is a weird place.
Marc:I'm like, no.
Marc:No.
Marc:this is the place this is this is like my mommy how do you how dare you but i also was a door guy so during you know when mitzi was clear-headed so you know i got totally mind fucked by the whole system of the place it was still in operational yeah the tears and like you know like don't park in mitzi's spot make sure no one's sitting in mitzi's booth oh fuck she's here everyone don't freak out
Guest:Yeah, I missed all that.
Guest:I showcased for her once, and she said I was too much like Al Madrigal, and then the comic said it was because I did a joke where I referenced Armenia.
Guest:And Al had a joke about Armenia.
Guest:Of the unibrow?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:But in her dementia and stuff, that was her, like you were like Al Madrigal too much.
Marc:I don't see that.
Guest:Yeah, I don't see it either.
Marc:Okay, so you come down here.
Marc:You're in college, and you're confident, and you called, and Duncan went, and they laughed you out of the place.
Guest:But it wasn't like that.
Guest:I did open mics everywhere, and Maz Jobrani, and John Caparulo, and Bobby Lee, they helped me weasel in.
Guest:What happened to Caparulo?
Guest:I don't know the whole deal.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Is he working?
Guest:I hope so.
Guest:I wish him well.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:He was always so kind to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That place is, there's some bully stuff at the comedy store, you know?
Marc:There certainly was.
Marc:Not now.
Guest:Yeah, I don't see that at all right now.
Guest:I'm very happy about that.
Marc:There was a big fear when all the fucking meatheads left that the place would kind of collapse on itself.
Marc:But its reputation precedes it, and everybody's professional, and it's kind of egalitarian now.
Marc:It's kind of cool.
Marc:You know, there's no—like, that place is very susceptible to any swinging dick to take over the place.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, if they have enough star power.
Marc:And it's just not happening right now, and it's a nice time.
Guest:I love you saying that.
Guest:Can I tell you this?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, again, I'm so—like, this is—like—
Guest:I'm releasing my special around this appearance, and it's such a huge deal for me.
Guest:And every time some other people have podcasts, and I talk to—I mean, Bobby Lee loves this, I don't care.
Guest:And he's always been nice to me.
Guest:I was like, I'd love to do your podcast, Bobby.
Guest:And he's like, I don't know if you can handle it, man.
Guest:I'm going to ask you questions that are going to stress you out.
Guest:I'm like, what?
Guest:He's like, I'm going to ask you things like, do you like pussy?
Guest:And I'm like, really?
Guest:Is that the conversation we have to have to promote my thing?
Guest:But I'm like, okay, Bobby, I'll answer your question.
Guest:And I said something goofy to him, and we'll figure it out.
Guest:Have you done it?
Guest:I haven't had the honor yet.
Guest:What's the special called?
Guest:It's called Live at the Comedy Store.
Guest:Clever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I thought about it because I was like, it's at the Comedy Store, and it was live.
Marc:Man, that was good.
Marc:It's so hard to name these things.
Marc:You know, I just thought it makes sense, you know?
Marc:All right, so what happened?
Marc:So you're down here, and now your confidence doesn't deliver you?
Guest:So when I'm 18, you're saying?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but I sent my tape out to everybody in the business, like a maniac.
Marc:Tape?
Guest:I sent my VHS tape.
Guest:I dropped off.
Guest:I was at the improv.
Guest:Yeah, headshots?
Guest:Headshots?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I did have a headshot with a resume, a staple in the back.
Marc:What were your special skills?
Guest:I think my special skill was remaining celibate for up to 18 years in a row.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:Yeah, for you.
Guest:And then...
Guest:I play piano.
Guest:But I just saw Danny Robinson, who is a really kind comedy agent guy, at this anniversary party at the Improv.
Guest:And I was like, I walked into APA and dropped off my VHS tape to you in 2004, and you were so kind to me.
Guest:And then he's like, all right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because it's his life, you know?
Guest:Yeah, they don't remember anything.
Guest:And same thing with Rick Messina.
Guest:I met with him when I was 19.
Guest:And I was like, you said to me my favorite compliment I've ever heard.
Guest:And when I'm sad, I think about it.
Guest:Like you told me just from talking to me, you could tell I'm funny in my bones.
Guest:And it means the world to me.
Guest:And he's like, all right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And he's like, why don't you bring your tape back?
Right.
Guest:So you took meetings, though.
Guest:They took my tapes.
Guest:I'm all over the place, but I got to do a taping at the Ontario Improv.
Guest:For what?
Guest:It was one of these trash things that every comic in hindsight hates that they did where you sign a contract saying we own your video for the rest of time.
Guest:And it was on cell phone television.
Guest:I didn't want to say the name of it, you know, like the trash.
Guest:But it got me in front of like levity people, whatever they were called at the time.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Hartman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Judy Brown, actually.
Guest:She returned my email.
Guest:And Jesse Shapiro, who booked the improv later, was the assistant.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so then I started hanging out the improv a lot four days a week.
Guest:When you're 19, 20?
Guest:18.
Guest:And then Scott Kennedy, rest in peace, he put me on one of his, he saw me.
Guest:I remember that guy.
Guest:Yeah, he put me on, Matt Coman booked me for a spot at the improv, just like a tryout thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And for like 10 people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Scott Kennedy saw me and put me on a project Angel Food Benefit with Wanda Sykes, like one of his charity things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Bud saw me, Bud Friedman, rest in peace.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, I love talking about dead people, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said, what kind of name is Williamson for a Jew boy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he got me in the system and I got my first road gig at the Reno Improv with Max Alexander and Becky Pettigo.
Guest:Max Alexander.
Marc:Rest in peace, Max Alexander.
Marc:He's dead too?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Reno Improv with Max Alexander.
Marc:Did you ever go to this place?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oof.
Marc:I don't work improv.
Marc:Yeah, well, the Reno Improv.
Guest:On purpose.
Fuck them.
Fuck them.
Guest:so reno improv was at the harrah's and it was a sammy davis jr showroom i remember um the the story that people would tell is like mark price um yeah from skippy he would uh always whenever he performed every night he would take a shower in the green room because sammy davis jr uh it was his shower sure but in the comics would be like do you have to do it every night like i kept doing it once for the story but every night you got to take a shower in here and i wonder how that guy's doing i don't know i wish him well you know
Marc:Well, sure, but he was sort of around, like, what was that show he was on, Family Touch?
Marc:Right.
Marc:But he was a comic when he was a kid, and then when I was a door guy, he was sort of around, but he was, like, living in a trailer on someone else's property.
Marc:It was, like, it was kind of a weird story.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:He was always a nice guy, but I know he tried to kind of come back as a comic, but I don't know, I haven't heard that name in a while.
Marc:I imagine he's still around.
Guest:I saw him, like, five years ago as something, but I don't know, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I got into touring.
Guest:Middling or featuring?
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Opening, hosting, and middling.
Guest:Who were you touring with?
Guest:So when I was 19, I got my first manager, Alex Murray, and he was so awesome.
Guest:And he hooked me up with Tom Wilson.
Guest:Tom, yeah, I used to see him at the store when I was a doorman.
Guest:Such a special comedian.
Guest:So people know him, like Biffin' Back to the Future and the coach from Freaks and Geeks.
Guest:But people know he was a stand-up way before.
Guest:Yeah, for a long time.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He's a real comic.
Marc:I think he used to get on stage with a tuba sometimes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it sounds like, oh, he was a music.
Guest:No, he was brilliant.
Guest:No, no, he was, yeah.
Guest:And I watched him.
Guest:I'm a deadpan guy doing 20 minutes, no sweat, whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would watch him every night.
Guest:This is when you do three shows in Irvine Improv on a Saturday.
Guest:He's sweating through his clothes, putting on a fucking show every night.
Guest:But that was such a big deal to get to work with him and hear his stories.
Guest:That's the first time I heard stories about Sam Kinison, who he actually was versus the legends.
Marc:Yeah, that's who brought me down.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's what's odd to me or fascinating is being in this business so long is finding out people who you loved are just kind of demons.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I think you could have assumed that with Sam.
Marc:I don't think that was a stretch.
Marc:Maybe—I don't think anybody watched Sam and thought, like, this guy's a good guy.
Guest:This guy got a good heart, this guy.
Guest:To be fair, he wasn't on my list, but, you know.
Guest:But—
Guest:But, yeah, so then I started doing that, and I got all this stuff when I was really young, you know?
Guest:So I got booked for new faces just for last when I was 19.
Marc:Who was on your new faces?
Guest:Oh, it was so many people.
Guest:Adam Devine, Hannibal, Reggie Watts, Pete Lee, Jordan Carlos.
Guest:Lizzie Cooperman.
Guest:Reggie Watts, you said?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:It was funny because that was not the right setup for him.
Guest:He's not a six-minute showcase guy.
Marc:No, because you just get the beat going with three minutes.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:You've got to add the noises, and then you're already at four.
Guest:And Morgan Murphy was there too.
Guest:And so that was so, that was so.
Marc:That's exciting.
Marc:So that was 2000 and what?
Marc:2006.
Marc:So it was still kind of happening.
Guest:Yeah, I think that was the last, that was like the tail end.
Guest:It was probably like the last 1% of maybe we'll get a development deal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I started in 2003, so my dream, this always fucked me up, my dream was to have a sitcom like Ray Romano or Tim Allen.
Marc:Sure, that was everybody's dream, yeah.
Guest:I moved to New York.
Guest:I had a lot of stuff going for me.
Guest:I did Craig Ferguson twice when I was 20.
Guest:Did he let you talk?
Guest:No, but he came up.
Guest:No, of course not.
Guest:But he did a thing that he didn't do for people my first time, where he stayed and watched, and then he came over.
Marc:Oh, you did stand-up.
Marc:I did stand-up.
Marc:And it was during that time where they'd pre-taped the stand-up, whether he was there or not?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a fucking nightmare.
Marc:And that guy was like, you know, look, I got nothing against him as a personality, but he would he would just use you and he wouldn't let you talk.
Marc:It was a fucking nightmare when you would go on as a guest.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You do panel and it would just and then he had Bart Coleman, I think, was doing the he was the the the the producer.
Marc:And, you know, they do a pre-interview, you know, a segment producer.
Marc:And he would ask you your entire life to the point where you're like, what's he even going to bring up?
Marc:And then you get out there and he wouldn't bring up anything.
Guest:It was all fucking, what was the setup?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Can I tell you the first time I did it, if everyone wants to look it up, it was 2007.
Guest:And my set list, I'm going to say a bad word.
Guest:Is that okay?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They make the bulletin of things that, like, so in case you forget your jokes, what do you call it?
Guest:Like notes.
Guest:Bullet points.
Guest:Bullet points, thank you.
Guest:So, uh, this was my bullet points.
Guest:It was, uh, um, it was, uh, homo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Uh, gay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The R word.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, uh, rape whistle, whore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like if you watch the jokes, they're all true.
Marc:Yeah, just your bullet points.
Guest:But like, uh, they're all, but it was just a different time.
Guest:And you could just say, and you watch those, there's nothing.
Marc:You should have just said that as a poem.
Guest:It was nothing mean-spirited.
Guest:But it was making fun of people who use these words, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:But then six months later when I went on, it was after Don Imus when he said the nappy-headed hose thing.
Guest:So CBS is part of the whole thing.
Guest:They would not let me say anything.
Guest:So my next performance was like squeaky clean.
Guest:Then I submitted it again.
Guest:They're like, you're too dark for us.
Guest:I'm like, too dark?
Guest:Talking about my parents being divorced?
Guest:It's too dark?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they just, but then I moved to New York, and while things were going, and I remember I talked to this young assistant manager at Brillstein, and she's like, why are you moving to New York?
Guest:I'm like, I want to be happy.
Guest:I'm a comic.
Guest:I want to thrive, and I want to have life experience because I want to do things.
Guest:And she's like, you should put off being happy until later in your life.
Guest:Focus on your career right now.
Guest:And I was like, ugh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But looking back, I think she was right, probably.
Marc:Is she a big manager now?
Guest:No, she's out of the business.
Marc:She decided her advice was wrong.
Guest:But then there's years of struggling, you know, like I did like one credit a year.
Guest:I lived off of that, you know?
Guest:But you were in New York.
Guest:Yeah, I went to New York for like two years, and then I came back to L.A.
Guest:Was it good?
Guest:It was my favorite time of my life.
Guest:I loved it so much.
Guest:Just like, looking back, it's insane.
Marc:So there's a big alt scene then, right?
Marc:So you could do like Hannibal's Room and stuff like that?
Guest:Yeah, do the Rafifi, pianos, all that.
Marc:Rafifi's still around.
Marc:Pianos too.
Marc:Back then, yeah.
Marc:With John Benjamin and who was doing pianos?
Ooh.
Guest:Pianos was... Was it that regular show or no?
Guest:It was the whitest kids you know, guys.
Guest:It was Timmy and Sam.
Guest:Oh, yeah, okay.
Guest:And Rafifi was that Bobby Tisdale and Eugene Merman.
Guest:And Merman, yeah.
Guest:But I did the clubs, too.
Guest:I was able to do all... I always did my same shtick.
Guest:The industry would always push me away.
Marc:Well, you're a club comic.
Marc:I mean, you could do... Yeah.
Guest:But I totally agree with your perspective on all comedy, what it is and isn't and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was always told, you're too alt.
Guest:You're too mainstream.
Guest:I was told both of them.
Guest:Because I wore a hoodie on last comic standing.
Guest:They're like, we're not putting you in because we already have two weird guys.
Guest:I'm like, I'm just wearing a hoodie.
Guest:But you're categorizing me.
Marc:You're pretty traditional, really.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I try to be.
Guest:But if I go to... But that's the thing.
Marc:You came up in the real way.
Marc:You came up in clubs and doing the work and being out there with...
Marc:you know, these comics.
Marc:I mean, that's the way it used to be.
Marc:So your system, your craft is built on, you know, making people laugh in a fairly broad way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's funny to describe comedy like that.
Guest:Just like, oh, people are laughing.
Guest:You make people laugh as many times as you can as possible and you say thoughtful things.
Guest:With jokes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, like, that's what it is.
Guest:And when you see these comedians, not to be a hater, but, like,
Guest:No one's laughing.
Guest:They're all set.
Guest:Oh, they're so funny.
Guest:I'm like, but can we just be, there's no decibels.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, there's just like, it's just a matter of fact.
Marc:It's like, it's a job.
Marc:And from my calculations, they're not doing the job.
Guest:The basic job is to make people laugh.
Guest:You can say, like, Carlos Muncy is not funny, but he's making them laugh.
Guest:At least he's doing that, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, aggressively.
Guest:Aggressively.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's not his jokes, maybe, but it's whatever, you know?
Guest:Anyways.
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:But I try to do my best to— But you got on that—what was it?
Marc:America's Got Talent.
Marc:So before Last Comic Standing?
Guest:So before Last Comic Standing, I got on two episodes.
Guest:Everything I did for the first 10 years of my career was just like, I'm not—I don't have a day job.
Guest:I never had a day job.
Guest:That was so important to my stupid ego at the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's the comic thing.
Guest:But I should have got a day job and lived a healthy lifestyle.
Guest:Instead of living in squalor, you know?
Guest:But then my career was like, I was going to have to get a day job for the first time in my life.
Guest:Poor me.
Guest:But I had a lucky career before that.
Guest:And I was broke for the first time.
Guest:And
Guest:I auditioned for America's Got Talent.
Guest:Some guy I went to high school with happened to be like the low level.
Guest:This guy, Josh Sandoval, who's now a big producer in comedy and stuff, he was a low level talent scout.
Guest:Their job is to go on YouTube and look for people to audition.
Marc:For America's Got Talent.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he told me to audition.
Guest:I was like, no.
Guest:I said no at first because that's like white deaf comedy jam.
Guest:They boo people offstage and stuff.
Guest:And they're told to boo people.
Guest:It's really scary.
Guest:And to have Howie Mandel and Howard Stern tell me I'm not funny, it would have destroyed me.
Guest:But then, good news is I was so desperate.
Marc:You're broke.
Guest:I was like, I have no choice.
Guest:I have no option or whatever.
Marc:I've done those kind of jobs.
Guest:My manager, who I had at the time, went crazy and left the country and never came back from Christmas break.
Guest:One of those cartoon kind of things.
Guest:Really?
Guest:He's like, yeah.
Guest:What is he now?
Guest:He's out of the country still, you know?
Guest:He just never came back.
Guest:And I remember calling the management office to talk to another manager.
Guest:And they're like, yeah, we don't know what happened to him.
Guest:I'm like, what is this?
Guest:It's like a cartoon of my life, you know?
Guest:Like a real company, too, you know?
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:I remember everyone dropped him except for me and Henry Phillips because we were like, well, he's got to work for us now.
Guest:He's got no class.
Guest:And then nothing happened.
Marc:Henry, I just saw him.
Marc:He's a good guy.
Marc:I love him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So then I did America's Got Talent, and it changed my life.
Guest:I got second place.
Guest:I didn't talk about being Jewish.
Guest:That helped a lot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Those votes from America.
Marc:Well, yeah, but you had Stern and Howie.
Marc:They would have stepped up, I think.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So they both said you were funny?
Guest:Yeah, and, like, I had a whole thing with Heidi Klum.
Guest:Like, if people go online, they could see my whole journey.
Guest:And, like, it was amazing.
Guest:I got to do that whole—everything I never thought I could— I was about to, like, give up on my big dreams and be like, you know, if I could write on a show, I'd be so lucky.
Guest:Yeah, I've been there.
Guest:You know?
Guest:But, like, it was just the right place, right time kind of thing, the right moments.
Guest:And I got to do the sellout clubs for a couple years thing.
Guest:And it was so special.
Guest:And, like, I bought a house and, like—
Guest:uh it hasn't been perfect since then you know but i've had pilots and i've sold shows and stuff and like i focused on that established you yeah and it validated for me that i'm doing what i should be doing with my life and yeah it was really kind of cool to have industry never gave me the love i wanted but then the people did yeah like that's that was really special and yeah i try to keep them both at a distance
Marc:The people in the industry, like, you know, don't get too excited.
Marc:That's smart.
Guest:That's healthy, honestly.
Guest:It actually is.
Guest:But, yeah, like, I see what you've done, and it's so inspiring and amazing.
Guest:And I was doing a podcast before I was on America's Got Talent, and then I stopped because, like, back then the dumb mentality was, oh, you do a podcast or do a YouTube show to get the next thing.
Guest:But, like, I remember I signed with these reps, and they're like, you don't need a podcast.
Guest:You're with us now.
Guest:I was like, okay.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Boy, you had some real good reps over time.
Guest:Yeah, I've had some... A lot of good advice.
Guest:Can I give advice to any comedians listening?
Guest:A mistake that I've made, and it's my fault, not anyone else's, but, like, this is me pretending I'm mature.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But I treated reps as a coach or a captain instead of a partner or a tool, and not in a mean way, not dismissive way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, hey, let's work together.
Guest:Hey, I want to do this.
Guest:Would you connect me with this?
Guest:Not, hey, boss, what do you think I should do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know what to do.
Guest:Should I do that?
Marc:You know?
Marc:Well, yeah, I used to do a line for years about how...
Marc:You know, Hollywood is not your parents.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they're not your friends.
Marc:I learned that the hard way, too.
Marc:Yeah, it took me years, dude.
Marc:Years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To, you know, to realize they'll just keep you on the shelf for as long as, you know, you let them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they won't do anything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But sometimes they'll do things and you're just not ready for it.
Marc:And that's not anyone's fault.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And a lot of these type of relationships become like any relationship where everyone's afraid to break up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Until someone goes crazy in your case.
Yeah.
Marc:Why is that my case?
Marc:Because you had a manager that went crazy.
Marc:Oh, yes.
Marc:I see.
Marc:I was like, did I tell you the time I went crazy?
Marc:And he still wanted to stay with him.
Guest:Can I tell you how much?
Guest:Why do you not laugh in the microphone so it just looks like you're attacking me?
Marc:No, I'm laughing.
Marc:I got some good laughs.
Marc:No, they do.
Guest:Okay, they know.
Guest:That's very funny.
Guest:But that is a huge thing for me to work on is they're not your parents.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're not supposed to be either.
Marc:No, it's a business.
Marc:I didn't know that for a long time.
Marc:I was just sort of like, why can't I do this?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I used to yell all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So what happened?
Marc:So it leveled off eventually, the sell-outs?
Guest:Yeah, and I went back on the show every couple years, whatever.
Guest:I had a holding deal with NBC, and I had a pilot with Paramount Network, and I sold a couple shows that didn't make it across the finish line.
Guest:And just looking back, I'm so excited for right now, the special.
Guest:everything coming up, and I have a show in development, whatever.
Guest:Where at?
Guest:I have a production company attached to a show.
Guest:Love Productions is the company, and I have an unscripted show pitch I'm very excited about.
Guest:Okay, good.
Guest:And I'd be hosting and stuff like that.
Guest:But I look at my resume, and it looks like I haven't done anything, but I've done so many things.
Guest:I had a show in development with Seaver and Michael Jamman and Seaver Glarum.
Guest:Seaver and my guys?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's so funny that you can't put almosts on your resume.
Guest:No, but it drives me crazy.
Guest:Because the industry looks at your resume and they go, so you haven't done anything since America's Got Talent?
Guest:I'm like, well, I've sold three shows and I've had multiple shows.
Guest:I had a show in development with Craig Ferguson for a year and then he shut down his production company.
Marc:You can't put that on the resume?
Guest:I mean, what is a resume anymore?
Guest:IMDB, they don't post.
Marc:Yeah, if they can't Google it,
Guest:In a post, I tried really hard.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or like I had a show in development with Spike TV, but then they decided.
Marc:I got close.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That should be a separate part of your resume.
Marc:Almost.
Marc:I think almost are pretty cool.
Marc:They are.
Marc:In show business, they are because, you know, it does imply that somebody took a chance.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that could go either way.
Marc:I mean, but a lot of times it doesn't go not because of you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, so what happens now at the clubs?
Marc:You had this window where you were like selling out because everyone knew you.
Marc:So what is your kind of stature when you go out on the road?
Guest:So it's not the – I'm not selling out like it was.
Guest:But I have the respect from the clubs that when I have something going on, they want to give me work, you know?
Guest:That's good.
Guest:Because I'm pretty clean, fairly clean.
Guest:I don't cause problems.
Guest:I'm not the guy that –
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:If they have a weekend, normal people come in and they're going to be like, what the fuck was that?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I have a big tour coming up now because of the special coming out and being on your show and all the other shows in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Is it called Taylor Williamson Live?
Guest:Live in America tour?
Yeah.
Guest:Listen, I call it live at the comedy store because I'm like, one, gratitude for the place.
Guest:Two, resentment for the place.
Guest:It took me 10 years to get past there.
Marc:Who passed you?
Guest:Tommy.
Marc:He did.
Guest:But it was after 10 years of a lot of nonsense and bullshit.
Marc:Tommy nonsense?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, Mitzi says this about you.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't know if you've ever talked to Mitzi about me.
Marc:Yeah, I used to say that.
Marc:It's like the Bates house up there.
Marc:Is she even alive?
Marc:She's like, yeah, she wants you to do the fourth spot.
Guest:I'm like, come on.
Guest:But can I tell you, Tommy was very Stockholm Syndrome he did to me.
Guest:He let me in when I was under 21.
Guest:He said, just don't talk about your age, which is illegal, honestly.
Guest:But it was really cool.
Guest:And he threw me a blast on belly room shows.
Guest:It was so cool.
Guest:He says, Mitzi said, plant him in the dirt.
Guest:That's where flowers grow.
Marc:Well, he definitely was a believer in the system.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he was the last one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For whatever his liabilities were, he did...
Marc:you know, believe in the old ways of the store.
Marc:And he was, whether it was real or not, genuinely trying to be Mitzi's proxy in the way that Mitzi had designed the place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I respect him and I'm so grateful that place.
Guest:I'm grateful with Peter and Scott and those guys let me film it there.
Guest:And Sandy.
Guest:And grateful to Sandy.
Guest:Listen, Sandy Seashore.
Guest:You know her legal name was Sandy Seashore?
Guest:No, I didn't know that.
Guest:Do you understand the pun that we're talking about?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like Seashore?
Guest:A sandy seashore, though.
Marc:Yeah, the whole thing.
Marc:It's the whole thing.
Marc:You didn't mention Pauly.
Marc:You're grateful for Pauly.
Guest:I'm grateful for Pauly.
Guest:Can I tell you, I've never said two words to him.
Guest:Ever?
Guest:I respect the guy.
Guest:I adore him.
Guest:I watched him forever.
Guest:Anyone who's listening to this, I love them.
Marc:You don't have to love Pauly.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I just don't.
Guest:I've never talked to him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's funny to talk to.
Marc:I was doing my special thanks.
Marc:He's very Pauly.
Marc:He's totally Pauly.
Marc:Totally Pauly.
Yeah.
Guest:Hey, buddy.
Guest:But what am I happy about?
Guest:I got a dog.
Guest:Do you have a dog I take care of?
Marc:You trying bits now?
Guest:No, I'm just telling you about my life.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I want to keep this conversation going.
Marc:So did you do 36 minutes on purpose?
Marc:So I wanted it to be 30.
Marc:Because you're saving stuff for the tour?
Guest:So...
Guest:Honestly, I'm putting it out for free on YouTube.
Guest:My business thought was, who needs anything at this point?
Guest:There's so much content, so much bullshit.
Guest:So it's more of an advertisement.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I consider it a special.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:No, no, it's a special, but it was obviously a choice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I feel like I want to let people—I'm trying to reintroduce myself.
Guest:In sincerity, my business thought was—I've been the America's Got Talent guy for 10 years.
Guest:I've milked the fuck out of it with all gratitude in the world.
Guest:I would love to never mention it again.
Guest:We're in a world now which is also confusing to me.
Guest:No one cares about your credits anymore.
Guest:No one gives a fuck when you're on Conan or something.
Guest:People used to lie when you bring him on stage.
Guest:He's on Conan.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:People used to say I had an HBO special when I was like 20.
Marc:How about the weird Argus intros?
Marc:He's got a one-man show at the La Jolla Playhouse.
Marc:He always goes, he's got a podcast.
Marc:It's Marin on Marin.
Marc:I'm like, what is going on?
Guest:So I'm just trying to reach – I'm trying to give people the –
Guest:Best 30 minutes I've ever had is show them who I am and what I'm about.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Very funny.
Marc:It's very funny.
Guest:It means the world to me that you watched it.
Guest:Oh, it's great.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:You have so many things you could have done with your life, but you chose to watch that, and thank you.
Guest:Well, no, I'm a comedy guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but I've been a fan of all these other people, but I really like I mean, you were so kind to me when I was 19.
Guest:And then there's like a like a 20 year break.
Marc:What happened that time?
Guest:You would.
Guest:I mean, I think it's because of Mishina.
Guest:You were nice to me.
Guest:We sit in the booth together and you'd be like, I guess we're talking to this kid.
Marc:You knew her.
Guest:Yeah, at that time, I would hang at the improv four nights a week, so whoever was hanging out.
Guest:And she was kind of at the same level as you, really.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Zach Galifianakis was so nice to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I could talk all day about people who were not kind, you know, and all the maniacs.
Guest:I was like a child hanging out with 40-year-olds, getting advice on women from them.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I mean, so weird.
Guest:That's what I was going to ask you from starting out young.
Guest:Did you have this problem?
Guest:Because, like, I started at 17 hanging out with 40-year-old maniacs.
Guest:Yeah, criminals.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:criminals truly like like literally literally and like vince champ was my mentor come on no use before your time but um i just want to give him a plug you know um but like it's i've had to like reframe my brain because all these things people taught me about how to behave and how to act and like
Marc:Yeah, but their comics are like these lone weirdos.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know, and it's like the context of their life is there's no normalcy to any of it.
Guest:No.
Marc:That's what I love about comics.
Marc:You just talk about relationships and stuff, and it's like you were a freak.
Marc:You're just like making up things about normal people.
Guest:And now comedy has just become exploiting traumas in my perspective.
Guest:Like a lot of people, like instead of healing themselves, like I mean, we've all followed your journey.
Guest:And it's so special how you evolve as an artist and a human.
Guest:And you try to evolve, you know.
Guest:And I see all these people who are blowing up and good for everybody.
Guest:But like...
Guest:It's just being the worst version of yourself that you can be.
Guest:And you get more fans because of it.
Guest:So they lean into it instead of becoming better.
Guest:And for me, it's trying to be like old school.
Guest:I wasn't even old school, but just being a real authentic comedian.
Guest:And the fact that you see me is that I can tell you how much it means to me.
Guest:What am I going for?
Guest:Should I be talking?
Guest:Should I start doing drugs and try out?
Marc:You're over the hump, dude.
Marc:What do I do?
Marc:You chose not to then when most people chose to do.
Marc:You don't want to kind of think like, well, what did I miss by not losing complete control of my life?
Guest:But I'm rebranding now, Mark.
Guest:I'm like, should I do like, you know, George Carlin was hippy-dippy weatherman that went out there.
Guest:I've never done drugs before.
Guest:Should I start doing drugs?
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:There's no reason.
Marc:No, because the bottom line is, like you said, no one thinks about credits anymore, and I don't know that anyone thinks about that show anymore.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's still on and stuff, and it means something to somebody, but it's all relevant to the window you have to sort of run off the fuel of that.
Marc:And then now it got you to this other level, and you were ready for it, and now you're kind of like...
Marc:You're in the stage of your life where you have complete control of your craft.
Marc:So you just keep doing that.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:What do you got to do drugs for or anything else?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But I do know that the climate's more difficult to sort of, you know, get land something.
Marc:But you've got the goods.
Marc:I mean, it's weird because when I'm watching you, the only point of reference, you know, the only guy that I thought was like kind of you remind me a little of Neelan.
Guest:Oh, wow, thank you.
Marc:Yeah, you know, in terms of, you know, there's a way of delivering things.
Marc:But, you know, and that's a great thing.
Marc:Yeah, thank you.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah, it's exciting.
Guest:It is weird in this time period where it's like, we're all climbing this ladder of this is, I'm going to do this, then I do this, then I do this.
Guest:Remember, it used to be like premium blend.
Marc:Yeah, then everybody gets to the end of the ladder and there's no more ladders.
Marc:You're just all up there going like, what are you doing?
Yeah.
Guest:yeah exactly and like and i remember talking to a comic when i was on twitter came out like 15 years ago yeah and i was like so because i'm a joke writer i love jokes and writing quick one-liners and like i was so excited about it and he was like what the fuck is this what is this because this is not what he did for 20 years and you know and even talking to comics from who run in the 80s like our job was to be funny just to write jokes and perform and then whatever and honestly to be fair the job was to work an hour a day and do nothing all day you know and uh
Marc:No, I mean, I had to adjust all that.
Marc:I had to adapt all that because it all happened when I was already, you know, in my 40s.
Guest:You're sincerely the pioneer of adjusting to this.
Guest:I mean, you created a format.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But that was like, you know, out of desperation.
Marc:But I remember at the beginning, like with Twitter, I'm like, fuck, now I got to get these followers.
Marc:How do you even do that?
Marc:And I became obsessed with it.
Guest:Yeah, it's it's and then unfortunately, the industry and this is a matter of fact, like the industry looks at how many followers do you have over over?
Marc:I know that's a fucking nightmare.
Marc:And I'm glad that I don't like it's not my life.
Marc:But I still like, you know, I make sure I have a presence, you know, but but I don't I'm not obsessed with it.
Marc:But like when I hear people talk about that good comics.
Marc:who are hobbled by the fact that they can't get those followers.
Marc:It's like unfair, and it's fucked up.
Guest:It is, but to end this topic on some positivity, I talked to Todd Glass about this, and he had a really special point of view on this, and he's older than both of us, I think.
Guest:He's about my age.
Guest:He's been around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said, like, for when people, young people, or people complain, like, what is this TikTok?
Guest:What do I have to do now?
Guest:He made a great point in people getting famous because of whatever.
Guest:Bill Burr blew up because he yelled at people on stage in that brilliant thing he did in Philly.
Guest:He was already a great comic, but that's what blew him up.
Guest:Jim Jefferies, another great comic.
Guest:He got famous because someone threw a drink at him on stage, and he handled it well, and they happened to be filming, you know?
Guest:You need a shill.
Yeah.
Guest:But he makes the point that you can still be special and work your way in this new thing.
Marc:Well, that's the thing.
Marc:The other side of that is whatever happens, if you have a shot, you need to have the goods, which you do.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Right?
Marc:So if something blows you up again, even if you lose a hand—
Marc:If I lose a hand?
Marc:Yeah, like someone comes up on stage and cuts your hand off.
Marc:You know, then you've got like a new half hour and everybody knows you and you can show up for the work.
Guest:First of all, I love that you're like, you'll get another half hour special out of this.
Guest:Not an hour special, but like a little half one.
Marc:No, I'm just adding to the material you already have.
Guest:Listen, for anyone who wants to cut my hand off, please know I'm not Jewish.
Guest:I'm proudly... Half Jewish.
Guest:Half Jewish.
Marc:So don't kill him.
Marc:Just maim him.
Marc:So the hand thing is actually a good idea.
Guest:You know, I've gotten into – COVID messed me up in all this time period and seeing people – that's the other thing.
Guest:Like not working for a year, I chose to follow the rules and all this stuff.
Guest:I was like a good boy listening to the rules.
Guest:We all did.
Guest:No, but people in New York were doing like 100 shows during the summer, like rooftops and all this stuff.
Guest:But those people who were doing – and people in L.A.
Guest:who were doing illegal shows or whatever –
Guest:I'm not even hating on them, whatever.
Guest:I didn't do any of those outdoor shows or Zoom shows.
Guest:But those guys are years ahead of us now because of all the social media they were doing.
Guest:I was sad trying to stay healthy, and they were out there kind of sociopathic a little bit, just having a great time.
Guest:Anyways, it's just interesting how when I look around, I'm like, oh, everyone's been doing stuff.
Guest:But I'm very excited for my tour.
Marc:Don't compare yourself to everyone.
Marc:I do it too, but it doesn't go anywhere.
Marc:The bottom line is you've got the goods and that's that.
Marc:I believe in that.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Yeah, buddy.
Guest:And yeah, thank you.
Guest:And thank you for anyone who wants to watch my special and directed by this guy, Justin Slade McLean and Andrew Baxter edited it.
Marc:And I would have turned the neons off, but that's my only note.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Please tell me what I did wrong.
Guest:You know what I love to hear is what I could have done differently.
Marc:Well, to be honest with you, I texted Peter.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And I was like, I just watched a Taylor Williamson show.
Marc:You know, I have a note.
Marc:And he's like, we didn't do that.
Marc:They rented this space.
Marc:I'm like, you got to turn those fucking faces off.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was it was hard to edit with those two, honestly, because like they cause the problems.
Marc:Well, they cause reflections.
Marc:And like on the longer shot, when it's like you on stage, you got to look at the fucking Marx Brothers and half the people don't even know who they are.
Guest:Well, they're going to learn.
Guest:Now they do.
Guest:And it's educational, Mark.
Guest:You know, we've got to make them laugh, make them learn something, make them ponder, make them wonder.
Marc:Nobody knows who the woman at the back is.
Guest:She's one of my favorites.
Guest:She's a legend.
Marc:It used to be the light.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you know that?
Marc:That the bow tie on Fanny Bryce used to be the light in the main room.
Guest:Listen, it's a perfect special.
Guest:It is.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:I liked it.
Marc:It's special.
Marc:It is.
Marc:And that note, it wasn't meant to diminish anything.
Marc:But just because I work there all the time, it's like, was it necessary to showcase these ridiculous neons of dead funny people that most people don't even know anymore?
Guest:Listen, their family's asked to be a part of it, and I just wanted to respect their legacies, you know?
Marc:They're getting a piece?
Marc:The Marx family's getting a piece?
Guest:Listen, oh, God, I'm such a comedy nerd.
Guest:Years ago when I lived in Hollywood, at the Egyptian theater, they had a Marx Brothers double feature.
Guest:And I was like, you know what?
Guest:I'm going to go watch this.
Guest:I've never been more bored in my entire life.
Guest:It was just me and, like, 30...
Marc:See, I thought this was going to go differently.
Marc:You're like, it changed my life and I chose to leave the lights on as an homage to these amazing comedians of the past that changed my life.
Guest:No, I felt so guilty.
Guest:I stayed for the second movie.
Guest:I'm like, this has got to be better.
Guest:But it's not fair because all the jokes have been done since then a million times.
Guest:That's what happened.
Marc:Well, either you like slapstick or you don't.
Marc:I love slapstick.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:I've seen all the Three Stooges.
Guest:I mean, I haven't watched it in a long time, but Three Stooges was my favorite.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's never been my thing, really.
Guest:What do you like?
Marc:What are you into, bro?
Marc:Comedy-wise?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You know, like, what really makes me laugh?
Marc:I mean, I guess there's some version of slapstick that isn't joke-driven that I like.
Marc:Like, you know, my guilty pleasures.
Marc:I generally like, you know, when I watch comedians, I like, you know, sometimes I like physical comedians.
Marc:But, like, there's...
Marc:There's certain moments in movies that Will Ferrell does that are transcendently funny.
Marc:They're arguably slapstick, but they're not joke-driven.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I think The Three Stooges were a little more like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:About physical timing.
Marc:I'm very impressed with physical timing.
Yeah.
Guest:I am too.
Marc:It's something... And physicality.
Marc:Like it's something I don't do, but some people just do it naturally.
Marc:They're just like, they've got a, you know, like there's people like, you know, Kevin James, Brian Regan.
Marc:I mean, like who just are just, you know, fully uncomfortable.
Marc:And they just they have a physicality.
Marc:I'm trying to think if there's anyone at the store that really works it, you know, well, Sebastian very intentionally.
Marc:But that's different.
Marc:But there are just some dudes that are just twitchy and physical that are very funny.
Guest:That's something that I would love to figure out is how to be physical, create laughs with physicality.
Guest:And it's very scary to me.
Guest:And like I'm 20 years in, I'm still there's certain.
Marc:But I was far into it when I started thinking about doing that.
Marc:And I do it in my own way.
Marc:Like, I know when there's a physical beat to be had, but it's a choice.
Marc:It doesn't always happen naturally.
Marc:I mean, sure, expressions, facial, whatever.
Marc:But to actually, like on my last special, I did a pretty big physical bit.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, with the gun thing, the bat.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But that was sort of like a big risk.
Marc:I'm like, I'm going to figure out these physical beats.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Your special stressed me out in a great way.
Guest:It was so good.
Guest:It was so special.
Guest:Not to be smart.
Guest:It was so special.
Marc:I was thinking about calling it Marc Maron Live in New York.
Guest:I think you should change it.
Guest:You should change it.
Guest:And then, was it people Googling comedy store, you know?
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:You did the right thing.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:You mean that?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You mean that, Papa?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are you my Papa?
Guest:Will you be my dad?
Marc:I'm your dad.
Marc:I'm your dad today.
Guest:But I want to say what I love what you did real quick is...
Guest:how you can talk about real things that happen and make it beautiful and relatable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, like, the more personal something, the more relatable it is.
Guest:But, like, I felt you, you know?
Guest:And that's something that I would love to figure out that's very scary to me is to be truly vulnerable on stage and talk about real shit.
Marc:I think you can because you're already pretty open.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:I don't know what you mean, but if it seems like that, it makes me happy.
Marc:No, you're like a sensitive, vulnerable guy, and it's not buried.
Guest:Right.
Guest:As a human, you mean.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I mean, like, you know, when you watch you, you're not like, this guy's kind of tough.
Marc:He's well guarded.
Marc:But I think you obviously are guarded in some way.
Marc:But I don't think it'd be a big leap for you to take risks about your personal life.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's right there.
Marc:Some people it's not.
Guest:Thank you, Dad.
Guest:I'm going to try that.
Guest:Can I have allowance?
Guest:You have a nice house.
Guest:Can I have some allowance, please?
Marc:How much do you need, kid?
Guest:I'm in debt because of this special.
Guest:Are you?
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:Can I tell you what I did?
Guest:A little more advice for comedy?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Comedians?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I used to have a bunch of money in the bank, and I would never touch it.
Guest:I had so much money saved.
Marc:I'm the same way, dude.
Guest:Because I was like, you never know what's going to happen or whatever.
Marc:I'm the same way now.
Guest:And then COVID happened and I lost it all.
Guest:Oh, but you were ready.
Guest:But I never invested in myself because I was like, I have to save the money.
Guest:But now that I'm broke, I started investing in my career for the first time.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And on the next level, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So maybe everyone invest in yourself when you have the money and just believe it's going to happen.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:It was good talking to you.
Marc:Hey, thank you.
Marc:You ready?
Marc:You done?
Guest:Can we get lunch after this?
Yeah.
Marc:I have to meet someone for lunch, but I would.
Guest:Okay, I'll come in.
Marc:This is great.
Marc:All right, good talking to you.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Interesting guy.
Marc:Nice guy.
Marc:Almost too nice.
Marc:His special Taylor Williamson Live at the Comedy Store is now streaming on YouTube.
Marc:Also, you can check him out at the Punchline in San Francisco tonight through Saturday.
Marc:Go to taylorwilliamson.com for all his upcoming dates.
Marc:And hang out a minute, will you?
Marc:Hang out a minute.
Marc:Heads up.
Marc:Full Marin listeners can now hear my talk with Cliff Nesteroff at the New York Public Library to discuss his new book, Outrageous.
Guest:Italian-Americans organized and fought against Italian stereotypes on the stage.
Guest:African-Americans organized.
Guest:Native Americans organized.
Guest:And it led to...
Guest:conflict tension there were editorials and newspapers that were supportive and that were condemning some editorials would say well if we buckle to these irish protest groups what's next black people won't let us do blackface think of the consequences yeah and how are we going to be funny after that
Guest:There's an editorial I quote from in the book that's from 1904 that says that most comedy is based on the exaggeration of our differences.
Guest:If we remove that from the stage, then say goodbye to comedy.
Marc:But that's hilarious because the exaggeration of our differences just meaning that why can't white people make fun of these other people?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's the exaggeration of differences.
Marc:We don't have a stereotype, so why can't we just mock?
Guest:Yeah, they often did argue in those papers that these groups need to lighten up and get a sense of humor.
Marc:But don't take off the blackface.
Guest:Don't lighten up that much.
Guest:Not that much, yeah.
Marc:To subscribe to The Full Marin, just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF+.
Marc:Next week, we have Peter Sarsgaard on Monday and a music doubleheader on Thursday with country artist Rodney Crowell and the return of John Doe from X. Just real veterans.
Marc:Real deal guys.
Marc:real deal music.
Marc:Now here's me doing a real deal attempt at some slide again.
Thank you.
Yeah.
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guitar solo
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Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey in the Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.