Episode 1484 - Lou Adler
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck tuplets what the fuckadelics what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it
Marc:Still making my way through my birthday cake.
Marc:We bought a large cake.
Marc:It's the most amazing vegan cake I've ever eaten in my life.
Marc:And I am not my mother's son in certain ways.
Marc:I will not throw away food unless it's just tapped.
Marc:I will not throw away food.
Marc:I don't like not eating food, all of it, at a restaurant.
Marc:I don't even, I get a little sad thinking about what happens to leftover buffet food.
Marc:I have a food thing.
Marc:I think we've established that.
Marc:But goddamn, this cake has lasted.
Marc:I froze it.
Marc:And I just defrost it.
Marc:And then I'll just eat it.
Marc:And I'll just almost cry with chocolate joy.
Marc:Cry with chocolate joy.
Marc:Also...
Marc:I guess what I'm doing is this will be me charting my pre-diabetes.
Marc:But Dr. Bronner's, and they don't pay for ads.
Marc:They've always been supportive of this show.
Marc:And years ago, feels like years, they sent me a couple boxes of the soap, the big bottles.
Marc:And I've been using that for a couple years.
Marc:Nothing but Bronner's.
Marc:But anyway, they were making chocolate for a while.
Marc:Then I went vegan.
Marc:And then out of nowhere, gift pack.
Marc:Vegan chocolate bars from Brawners.
Marc:And they're so rich and fucking good.
Marc:And between that and the cake and the box of dates I bought, I'm fucking jammed with sugar.
Marc:Jammed up.
Marc:But happy birthday to me ongoing.
Marc:So Lou Adler's on the show today.
Marc:This guy is one of the fucking Hollywood rock guys.
Marc:He's a record producer, a film producer, co-owner of the Roxy Theater in Hollywood.
Marc:He produced albums with the Mamas and Papas, Jan and Dean, Carole King, including Tapestry.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:His grandkids are still eating cake on that one.
Marc:He produced several movies, including the Rocky Horror Picture Show, and he directed Cheech and Chong's Up in Smoke.
Marc:Come on, man.
Marc:Dave's not here.
Marc:Come on, dude.
Marc:The Roxy just celebrated its 50th anniversary, so we had him in.
Marc:And he doesn't do this stuff.
Marc:He's written no books, and he knows a lot of stuff.
Marc:But he's, you know, he's a guy that keeps to himself, lives his life, enjoys it.
Marc:But he's been there through the whole arc of that era of music, late 60s, mid-60s, early 70s.
Marc:He was here, man.
Marc:He was in it.
Marc:Pals with Jack and Warren and that crew.
Marc:But it goes way back in the music business.
Marc:It is a great...
Marc:Great episode.
Marc:The pre-sale for my 2024 tour is going on right now.
Marc:All the links are at wtfpod.com slash tour, and you can use the pre-sale code ALLIN.
Marc:That's one word, A-L-L-I-N.
Marc:I'll be performing in San Diego, San Francisco, Portland, Maine, Boston, Providence, Rhode Island, Tarrytown, New York, Atlanta, Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Chicago, Minneapolis, Montclair, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Charleston, South Carolina, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham, North Carolina.
Marc:Oh, I got to go see the Tigers.
Marc:The Tigers at the Tiger Rescue, Vancouver and Seattle.
Marc:The presale continues today until 10 p.m.
Marc:local time for each venue.
Marc:Again, the password is all in one word.
Marc:The general on sale date is tomorrow, Friday, November 3rd at 10 a.m.
Marc:local time.
Marc:All the venues and links are at WTFPod.com slash tour.
Marc:This Saturday, I'll be in Boston.
Marc:Doing the comics come home.
Marc:It's going to be me and Robert Kelly and Burr and Pete Davidson and Tammy Pescatelli and Lenny Clock, Alex Edelman, Rachel Feinstein, and more.
Marc:And more.
Marc:Boston.
Marc:But I've talked about this before, man.
Marc:Going back to Boston, that area, that to be in the same airness of New England is both it's heavy, man.
Marc:It's a especially in fall.
Marc:You know, you get that crisp air and the leaves changing and it's beautiful.
Marc:It's poetic.
Marc:But for me, it's also a bit it's a bit of returning to the scene where the trauma took place.
Marc:where I put myself through it, both college and comedy.
Marc:I mean, I left home, and I went first to Milton, Massachusetts for my freshman year out there at Curry College, and then to Boston, and so all those changes were there.
Marc:What song is that?
Marc:Helpless.
Marc:All my changes were there.
Marc:That's for sure.
Marc:I mean, I think Neil's talking about Winnipeg, and he was probably younger, but when you make the shift...
Marc:To college, if you're fortunate enough, or you can.
Marc:Like, you know, you're kind of on your own, but not really.
Marc:And you're just, if you're me, you know, my sense of self is a little amorphous anyways.
Marc:And it's just, you kind of put the pieces together.
Marc:You try to do all the things that you always wanted to do.
Marc:Like for me, you know, I did some acting.
Marc:I did some writing.
Marc:I did some poetry-ing.
Marc:Wrote for the newspaper.
Marc:Studied film.
Marc:studied english studied art you know i did all the stuff wrote some stuff uh you know to try to find myself but that's like that's not a great time i don't know what kind of people have a great time figuring themselves out i mean i don't regret it but jesus christ that was hard and sad and weird and embarrassing and
Marc:And then, like, I come out here to L.A.
Marc:and I do the L.A.
Marc:thing, get all fucked up on drugs, go back to Boston, start my comedy career there, hard and sad and embarrassing.
Marc:Not barely a good time to be had any time during that time other than hanging out with some comics, living lacrosse, and hanging out with the guys and women and men of my generation there, drinking, doing blow.
Marc:Damn.
Marc:But really, I think at the heart of the trauma of going back to the New England area is, you know, I, for some reason, was able to work these one nighters and just driving out into the middle of nowhere to do to go up cold for an audience of people, New England people, the full spectrum of New England people.
Marc:And just hammering it out at a goddamn bowling alley.
Marc:I feel it coming on when I go out there working with Lenny Clack.
Marc:Lenny Clack was scary, man.
Marc:And all those that that whole world of Boston comics, as great as they all are and were intimidating and scary.
Marc:Didn't want to get on the wrong side of any of them.
Marc:I miss Bob Seibel.
Marc:There's just a shout out.
Marc:Rest in peace, Bob Seibel.
Marc:That guy was a character.
Marc:I wish I had a little more time with Bob Seibel.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Driving down to Franks and Franklin, Pancho Villas and Lemonster, Banditos and Flawl River, the Taunton Regency, Captain Nix and a Gunkwit, Johnny Yee's down in Yamath.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:hanging around the hotel room with Joe Yannetti and Don Gavin playing that dollar poker game.
Marc:Jesus.
Marc:I know it sounds amazing and fun.
Marc:It was a lot of anxiety and a lot of sweating, but I made it through and I'm going back this Saturday.
Marc:And eventually, like same with the comedy store, you know, the damage that was done to me at that place when I was younger, eventually it faded after I went there more.
Marc:And maybe this will be, maybe it'll be fun.
Marc:Maybe it'll just be fun.
Marc:I'm going to play with the band.
Marc:We're going to do the asshole song.
Marc:I think me and Burr are going to be in the band.
Marc:They got me some gear.
Marc:I got to go to a rehearsal on Saturday.
Marc:I am a little worried about my 10 or 15 minutes.
Marc:I'm intimidated by those audiences.
Marc:It doesn't go away.
Marc:Driving out, driving to Worcester to do stitches at Margaritaville.
Marc:Just coming up against a full room of those fuckers.
Marc:Sully's and Cindy's and Sal's, Terry's.
Marc:What, I'm just naming names.
Marc:I just phrase that like burr.
Marc:Just naming names.
Marc:Reeling them off.
Marc:Who gives a fuck?
Marc:Yeah, see, it's happening.
Marc:I've got to keep it out.
Marc:I've got to hold on to me as I enter this world.
Marc:All right, so next week...
Marc:I go to Albuquerque.
Marc:My old man's there, slowly ejecting.
Marc:And my whole life is there.
Marc:I'm going to play the chemo theater.
Marc:The chemo theater, actually something I always wanted to do.
Marc:It's not a lot of gigs in Albuquerque.
Marc:It's not a big market, but I sold out the chemo and it's a big deal.
Marc:It's always a big deal to go home and to feel the weight of that, to feel the weight of the judgment of some of the people that knew me when I was five.
Marc:I would have been older when I was 10, you know?
Marc:So I got to wait forever.
Marc:of the entire audience of New England who saw me forge part of me.
Marc:And I got to go feel the weight of Albuquerque, New Mexico, which forged the rest of me.
Marc:And then I got to go to Thanksgiving at my mother's and sort of be in the absence of my amazing Aunt Barbara.
Marc:So it's a heavy month, man.
Marc:It is a heavy month.
Marc:So, look, this is a great conversation.
Marc:I talked to Lou Adler for quite a while.
Marc:His club, The Roxy, is having its 50th anniversary.
Marc:You can go to theroxy.com for all the shows and events they're holding this year.
Marc:And this is me talking with Lou Adler.
Marc:It seems like you're doing all right.
Marc:You're still alive.
Marc:I'm 60 today.
Guest:Do you remember 60?
Guest:I was thinking about that today because I was reading about you, and I saw it was your birthday.
Guest:60 was a real good birthday for me.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I was 55, I met my wife, the one I'm now married to.
Guest:I started having a bunch of kids.
Guest:Yeah, it was good.
Guest:Was that on purpose?
Guest:After a while, well, she wanted—when I met her, she said, you know, I have to tell you that one of my things that I always thought about was to have seven kids—
Guest:By seven different men.
Guest:Wow, what is she, a cat?
Guest:Yeah, right.
Marc:But I gave her seven.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So now you got them too.
Marc:You didn't just give them to her, but you got them.
Guest:I had three before I met her.
Marc:Yeah, and one of them still runs the club, right?
Guest:Cisco.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nikolai, he's got so much to do with Golden Voice festivals.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he owns a bunch of vegan restaurants.
Guest:Oh, yeah, here?
Guest:Monty's.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:He owns that chain.
Marc:So they're just doing the business.
Marc:But who's running the club now?
Marc:The Roxy?
Guest:Ah, Golden Voice.
Marc:Oh, so it's not a family affair anymore, really?
Guest:Yeah, we overlook it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Nikolai is able to because he's Golden Voice and family.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's good.
Guest:And Paul Toledo's become a very good friend.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who's he?
Guest:He started Golden Voice.
Marc:That's a production company.
Guest:That does Coachella.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And probably 200 more festivals.
Marc:But is it considered a management company or a production company or just a music promotion?
Guest:It's owned by AEG now.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:They own everything?
Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:You can only fight him for so long, I guess.
Guest:If they don't, Live Nation does.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Live Nation is huge.
Marc:You knew Bill Graham, right, back in the day?
Marc:Yeah, very much.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Good guy.
Guest:Good, strong, tough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really tough guy, but good guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So like I was trying to figure out because I haven't talked to too many people that have the arc that you do in music and in this town primarily, except for Herb Alpert.
Marc:I interviewed Herb Alpert.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Marc:I did.
Marc:I did.
Guest:I didn't ask him about it.
Guest:I spoke to him yesterday.
Marc:Yeah, we had a good talk.
Marc:And you guys came up together, right?
Guest:Yeah, we did.
Guest:We started together.
Marc:But where'd you start?
Marc:Writing.
Marc:Songs?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wait, what town?
Marc:What city?
Guest:Here.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Not Glendale, L.A.
Marc:But you grew up here or you grew up elsewhere?
Guest:I grew up in Boyle Heights, East L.A.
Marc:In East L.A.?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So he's an L.A.
Marc:guy, too.
Marc:He went to Fairfax.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you knew each other in high school?
Guest:No, well, I knew his...
Guest:He was in the army.
Guest:I met his girlfriend, which I didn't know was his girlfriend.
Marc:Until you tried?
Guest:No, no, it worked okay.
Guest:He got out of the army, eventually married her.
Guest:And she introduced me to her girlfriend, and that's how Herbie and I became good friends.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And did you write together?
Guest:Yeah, we wrote songs together.
Marc:And that's how it started.
Marc:What was the first hit?
Guest:Well, we had a couple small hits.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:By weird groups.
Guest:Circle Rock by the Salmus Brothers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yoo-Hoo by Country Artist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Eventually, we had Sam Cooke in Wonderful World.
Marc:You wrote that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a big song.
Marc:Yeah, big.
Marc:That song probably still makes money.
Guest:Still does.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Takes care of the younger kid.
Guest:That's crazy.
Marc:The youngest one.
Marc:The one I just met.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now there's one below him.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got a real brood going.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when you were coming up, I mean, it's interesting to me.
Marc:Because I've talked to guys who were in New York and doing that songwriting and that song.
Guest:Yeah, I was involved in that for a while.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like the Brill Building and that kind of stuff?
Guest:1650 Building, which everybody calls the Brill Building.
Marc:But it's not the Brill Building?
Guest:No, it's 1650 Broadway.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So, but out here, I mean, what compelled you to get into the music racket?
Marc:Because it's a certain type of person.
Guest:Like when you were a kid, was it, you just... No, no, I wanted to be a journalist.
Marc:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And in junior high school and high school, I wrote the school songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I never thought of anything, maybe journalism, as a career.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I was just going from whatever one thing to the next or whatever my dad thought.
Guest:He'd get a trade, you know.
Guest:What was your dad's trade?
Guest:He was a mechanic and a truck driver.
Marc:Oh, yeah, here in L.A.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And your mom?
Guest:Housewife.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, never stopped working when she was 16 in Chicago.
Marc:So they come up in Chicago.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Chicago Jews.
Guest:Chicago Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:For sure.
Marc:And then you got siblings?
Guest:I have one sister.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Seven years younger.
Marc:Still around?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Good genes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Good for you.
Marc:She is.
Guest:Our parents aren't, but my sister and I are.
Marc:So you start writing songs.
Marc:Because, like, when you got into music...
Marc:like the whole business built around you really around around that generation of people the rock business and the pop song business shifted right when you were starting out shifted as far as what it's as far as like the the i would imagine uh it just seemed like there were a lot of people once rock and roll took hold you know trying to score these songs trying to make hits trying to write hits trying to deliver them to artists and maybe it was always like that i don't know
Guest:Well, it was more individual.
Guest:There was less corporate, for sure.
Guest:And it was quicker.
Guest:In L.A., you write a song.
Guest:You could have it on the air in 24, 36 hours.
Marc:Really?
Marc:You just press a single?
Marc:You go and press a single.
Marc:You find a band, you press a signal, you get it to the disc jockey.
Guest:You go to KFWB, the radio station, disc jockey.
Guest:In our case, we made the disc jockey our partner, B. Mitchell Reed, became our partner.
Guest:He was a 3 o'clock DJ.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:Kind of a drive-time guy.
Guest:Yeah, Drive Time.
Guest:Formerly, he was from New York, a jazz DJ who bought into rock and roll.
Marc:So that wasn't quite Paola.
Marc:That was just a partnership.
Guest:And it wasn't based on Paola.
Guest:Not consciously.
Guest:It was just a smart move to bring the guy in.
Guest:Definitely.
Guest:And he was a friend.
Guest:He became a friend.
Marc:So you and Herb and him?
Guest:Yeah, it was called, let's see, Herbie Lou Productions.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Herb B for B. Mitchell.
Guest:Lou, take off on Desi Lou.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:And how many hits did that company have?
Guest:None.
Marc:None.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:Herbie and I started to get into production, started working with Sam Cooke at that point.
Marc:It was at the peak of his career?
Marc:No.
Marc:Just before?
Guest:He had, it was 58, 59.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He had You Send Me and maybe a couple of other hits.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But he was done with the gospel.
Yeah.
Guest:He was done with Graceville, yeah.
Marc:And so you got him sort of at prime time.
Guest:Everything I've ever done seems to be prime time.
Marc:Would you call that luck?
Guest:I've had a lot of luck.
Guest:I don't know what else to call it because I don't seek it out in that way.
Guest:So a lot of it is luck.
Guest:I mean, it has a lot to do with instincts.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I've tried a lot of new things because I've never been very conscious of rules and regulations.
Guest:Were you managing with Herb?
Guest:Herbie and I, our first act that we managed was Jan and Dean.
Marc:So they had some hits.
Marc:Oh, they had a lot of hits.
Marc:So that was after the songwriting?
Marc:Like sort of during?
Marc:Like when does it all happen at once?
Guest:That was managing producing more than songwriting.
Marc:So it was a little later than the songwriting period.
Marc:59.
Marc:Later than Herbie Liu.
Marc:Later than her.
Marc:Well, during, but later.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So when you decide to be a manager, I mean, how does that sort of work?
Marc:It feels like these things were just impulsive back in the day.
Marc:You just grab a band and you sign the papers and you're the guy?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Sometimes you don't sign the papers.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You're the guy.
Guest:You start taking on things that you can do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That nobody else is doing for them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they're not doing or they don't want to do.
Guest:And you fill those slots out.
Guest:And pretty soon you're a manager.
Marc:But is that how you built relationships with the labels and stuff?
Marc:By taking on someone like Janet Dean?
Guest:We started, yeah, it was actually.
Guest:But there were small labels because you couldn't get in to Capitol, RCA and Columbia.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Were the three big ones at that time.
Guest:So it was Vine Street.
Guest:It was storefronts.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the Janet Dean records were on a label called Dory, D-O-R-E.
Marc:And whose label was that?
Guest:Lou Bedell was his name.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He had another label, Era.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Small labels.
Guest:He was a comedian.
Marc:So this was a time where, like, you know, a guy, you could pull it together, you could press some records, and there was a chance outside of the corporate structure altogether, outside of major labels, you could make a pretty good hit for yourself and do all right.
Guest:Oh, you could start, what we did, as soon as we had a hit of any kind, maybe even before we started labels.
Marc:Yeah, what labels did you start, did you have?
Guest:Before my big labels, which were Dunhill and Ode, we had little labels named after our girlfriends at that time.
Marc:And so was the idea with the little label just to, you would just, you know, what would you do?
Marc:Paperwork and just knock out a few records on it and then move on?
Guest:You could press it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you could promote it.
Guest:And there were local promotion men.
Guest:Jerry Moss was a very independent local promotion man we used to.
Marc:Yeah, and he was around for years, right?
Guest:He was around.
Guest:He started in 59.
Guest:And didn't he go on to be a label head?
Marc:He started A&M with Herb.
Marc:Right, Jerry Moss, right, right, right, right.
Marc:But if you got something on the radio in the 24-hour period, I mean, and it takes off, you got a lot of records to press, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's an interesting thing because, for example, Sam Cooke.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They put out You Send Me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it goes major right away.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Stations are picking it up.
Guest:And there were 32 independent distributors across the country at that time.
Guest:One in New York, one in Philadelphia, one in New Jersey, all the way across.
Guest:And they would make deals.
Guest:If I buy, now I'm a distributor, which I wasn't.
Guest:If I buy 300 records, will you give me 10 or 15 free so they could sell those and make all the money on them?
Guest:Right.
Yeah.
Guest:We're naive.
Guest:Yeah, sure, we'll do that.
Guest:Sam Cooke comes out.
Guest:You send me start selling crazily.
Guest:The guy in Philadelphia calls Keen Records, which is putting the record out.
Guest:Will you give me 100 records for every 300 I sell?
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Guest:Send me 30,000.
Yeah.
Marc:So not great deals, but you did all right.
Guest:Well, for me and Herbie, we're making money we never made before.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And that was enough to get you guys started?
Marc:Was that really what you built Dunhill Records on?
Guest:No, Dunhill was financed by another partner that I had at the time.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you made the money on the Sam Cooke single, and then you just kept doing the same thing for a while.
Guest:Just kept on going.
Marc:Knocking him out?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was the last one with Sam, though?
Guest:Wonderful World was very late.
Guest:We had a couple of small records on different albums.
Guest:Nothing really big till Wonderful World.
Marc:So managing Jan and Dean, were you with them their whole career through the tragedy, like Jan and Dean?
Guest:Yeah, I was.
Guest:I was with them.
Guest:I saw Dean last night.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How's he doing?
Guest:Yeah, Dean is one of the sweetest people ever and ever was and still is.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So when, how does it sort of evolve?
Marc:What are the next steps that get you to the point where, I mean, because it seems like, you know, I guess the times were changed.
Marc:So we're talking with Sam Cooke's the early 60s, right?
Marc:Jan and Dean's early 60s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jan and Dean were 59.
Guest:So Sam was before that, 57, 58.
Marc:So what are you doing between like, you know, 59 and when, you know, the 60s explode?
Guest:Well, what happened is that Herb and I decided to go separate ways.
Guest:Herbie always wanted to be an artist.
Guest:So we split whatever we had.
Guest:I took Janet Dean and I took the tape machine.
Guest:That was our asset at the time.
Guest:And I went to work in New York in 1961 for a publishing company, a guy named Donnie Kirshner.
Guest:And Al Nevins had a company called Alden Music.
Guest:And 36 top 10 records in three years.
Guest:That's how big that company was.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Is that Don Kirshner from Don Kirshner?
Marc:Yep.
Guest:Rock concert?
Guest:That's Don Kirshner.
Yeah.
Guest:That's where I met Carole King, Barry Mann.
Marc:So that was the New York time.
Marc:That was the Broadway time.
Guest:New York.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's okay.
Marc:So you met Carole King as a songwriter?
Marc:Songwriter, her and her husband, Jerry Goffin.
Marc:Goffin, yeah.
Marc:Okay, so that's where you kind of get tapped into that whole scene.
Marc:That's a whole different world than New York, right?
Guest:Publishing, yeah.
Guest:Not only New York, but publishing, which I hadn't dealt with much.
Guest:Not on that level.
Marc:Well, that's also like, you know, that's where the big money is, right?
Marc:In a lot of ways, is holding on to the publishing?
Guest:It's the continuation of money also.
Marc:The continuation after the record sales.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I see.
Marc:So how does the relationship with Carole King evolve?
Marc:Because that seemed to be...
Guest:What my job was was to take songs that they wrote and try to get them recorded by artists, by relationships with the A&R men and the producers.
Guest:And so from New York, I had this small period, maybe three, four months when I lived in New York.
Guest:And then I came out to L.A.
Guest:and opened up a branch of Alden Music.
Marc:So then you were primarily in publishing and you were taking songwriter songs to artists or trying to deal with A&R guys to deliver them to artists.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Carol was sending me, what I noticed at the time is that when I would give a demo of Carol King to a producer or an hour, I couldn't get it back.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:They loved the demo so much.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:So they added it to their collection of music that they listened to.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Eventually, that comes when I start recording Carol to keep it simple and keep it like demos.
Yeah.
Marc:Oh, so, yeah, well, you made that masterpiece record.
Marc:But before Tapestry, you were dealing with some of that, the pop psychedelic, like the Mamas and the Papas.
Marc:I don't know if it's psychedelic, but it was at the beginning of that, right?
Guest:The process was psychedelic.
Guest:The records weren't psychedelic.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you were sort of at the...
Marc:You were on top of the wave of 60s pop with them, right?
Guest:Yes, for sure.
Guest:And that wave went from New York to L.A.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That's when L.A.
Guest:started to get big.
Guest:Folk rock.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Folk rock.
Guest:Folk groups start moving.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So like in New York.
Marc:So the Stone Ponies, right?
Marc:Linda Ronson.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Were they in New York or were they here?
Guest:They were here.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, that's one of those pure folk bands.
Guest:Yeah, all of those guys.
Guest:But, you know, Neil Young, Eagles.
Guest:Parts of Fleetwood Mac.
Guest:Everybody was moving out of folk.
Guest:Stephen Stills.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But it seemed, was the Mamas and the Papas the first to really break?
Marc:Out of folk, you think, into pop?
Guest:I think it was the biggest.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it had a lot of impact because of the two girls being up front for the first time in a rock and roll group.
Marc:And that was on your label, the first Mamas and Papas?
Marc:Don Hill.
Marc:That was the first Mamas and Papas record.
Guest:That's true.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you were producing.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So you're in the middle of the insanity.
Marc:Right in the middle.
Marc:Right in the middle.
Marc:And you live to tell the story.
Guest:Well, it's quite a story.
Marc:Well, it's interesting because I was kind of reading up on you and the fact that you haven't written a memoir.
Marc:I have not.
Marc:Because you're a guy that either keeps them to himself or knows a lot of secrets.
Guest:Well, I'm both of those guys, actually.
Guest:But, you know, I've only done two podcasts.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I just...
Guest:It's my story and I'll keep it.
Guest:It's that type of thing.
Guest:I mean, the story gets so broad that if you start to tell it or write it, you have to stop at some point.
Guest:You can't delve that deep into it.
Marc:Without possibly hurting other people?
Guest:Yeah, I don't feel comfortable doing that.
Guest:I have seven kids, seven boys, and they ask me questions.
Guest:I sort of live the book through them.
Marc:Do they ask you questions about you mostly or about people you knew?
Guest:It's a pretty good combination, and it depends on which boy.
Marc:Because of the age?
Guest:Age and what they're into.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, you're certainly a good resource.
Guest:I am an excellent resource for so many years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So after, like in the 60s, you know, I guess that really kind of established you here and the label and the bands you're working with as one of the main music movers in L.A., right?
Yeah.
Guest:I think so, yeah.
Guest:1964, I started doing those live at the Whiskey albums with Johnny Rivers.
Guest:And from that point on, it snowballed.
Guest:I really, it was constant.
Marc:So the whiskey is still around, and that predates— Started in 1964.
Marc:It predates the Roxy by a decade almost, right?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And so at that point, the Roxy's just a strip club, and the Troubadour's around, right?
Marc:Troubadour, yeah.
Marc:Folk?
Marc:Folk.
Marc:All folk.
Marc:And Rainbow's not happening yet.
Guest:71.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So what is the feeling?
Marc:Because you must have seen in the mid-60s the Sunset Strip take the form that it took.
Marc:It changed, right?
Marc:What was on the Strip?
Marc:Was it just a couple of those clubs?
Marc:And Ciros was probably still there, right?
Guest:Ciros was there.
Guest:I mean, the basic attendee to the Strip...
Guest:And the areas surrounding the strip was Frank Sinatra group.
Guest:You know, I mean, people of that age and entertainment that they were looking for.
Marc:Okay, so that's a big moment, right?
Marc:So in the mid-60s to the late 60s, the entire music industry shifts, the film industry shifts, entertainment shifts.
Guest:Film was a little later.
Marc:71, 2.
Guest:Yeah, The Trip and those films.
Marc:Five Easy Pieces.
Guest:That woke up and said, ah, rock and roll.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But music, music like, you know, after the folk rock thing, I mean, you saw, you know, pretty, I mean, you knew Janice, no?
Guest:Well, I did Monterey Pops.
Marc:And what was that?
Marc:That was 70— 67.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was that your idea?
Guest:The idea was sort of John Phillips, Mamas and Papas.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I jumped right in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The two of us put together this board of directors that never met—
Marc:A few names on a piece of paper.
Guest:Yeah, some of them didn't even know they were in the board of directors, around the board of directors, which sort of validated what we were trying to do.
Guest:And how many were there?
Guest:I think there were 15.
Marc:But the first one was 69.
Guest:Which festival?
Guest:Oh, I'm sorry.
Guest:There was only one.
Guest:There was only the one?
Guest:Until two years ago, or whatever, the 50th anniversary, there was one.
Guest:So that was one big festival.
Guest:One big.
Guest:We went back to think about the second one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they had caught on to what we were doing.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:They raised all the prices.
Guest:They asked for more things.
Guest:It just got to be literally a pain in the ass.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:But the first one, I mean, because I've seen some of the film.
Marc:Someone filmed it.
Marc:Penny Baker.
Marc:It was Penny Baker because I watched it on maybe the Criterion channel.
Marc:I don't know where I found it.
Marc:It's on Criterion.
Marc:And it's like, you know, there's some—the scope of it was amazing.
Marc:And, like, everybody was there, right, at that time?
Guest:Every genre, every big act or up-and-coming act in every genre was—
Marc:It was crazy.
Marc:Like on the Saturday afternoon, I got the list right here.
Marc:Canteet, Big Brother and the Holding Company, Country Joe and the Fish, Al Cooper, the Butterfield Blues Band, the Electric Flag, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Steve Miller Band.
Marc:I just interviewed him.
Marc:He's an interesting guy.
Guest:Steve, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, because like, you know, like he could walk down the street and no one would know him, but he had some of the biggest hits of the 70s, that guy.
Guest:He's a musician.
Marc:He really is, right?
Marc:And then in the night, Moby Grape.
Marc:Hugh Masekela, The Birds, Laura Nero, Jefferson Airplane, Booker T and the MGs, The Marquise, Otis Redding, Ravi Shankar was there, Simon and Garfunkel, Eric Burden, Johnny Rivers, The Association, Buffalo Springfield, The Who, The Grateful Dead, Hendrix.
Marc:That must have been, were you awake the whole time for three days?
Marc:I was on a high.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Which kind?
Marc:Both.
Both.
Marc:Do you have memories of it?
Marc:Was it crazy?
Marc:I have every memory.
Guest:You're lucky.
Guest:I'm so lucky.
Guest:I mean, somebody asked me the other day, of all the big music events, which ones would you have liked to have been at?
Guest:And I said, how was that?
Guest:All the big ones of it, I got to be there, either a part of it or see it, hear it.
Marc:But it seems like Monterey was not as crazy as Woodstock.
Guest:Monterey was about the music.
Guest:Woodstock was about the weather.
Guest:Weather and the size of the crowd.
Guest:Neither of those things entered into Monterey.
Guest:All about the music.
Marc:And in your recollection, what were the moments at Monterey where you were like, holy shit, this is like walking on the moon?
Guest:Hendrix, of course.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, in order to validate, just look at the Penny Baker film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And look at the faces of the girls that are in the front.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They can't not believe what they're saying.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Certainly Janice.
Guest:John and I had gone up to San Francisco earlier to see some of the groups.
Marc:Moby Grape?
Guest:We saw Moby Grape.
Guest:I don't recall.
Guest:I think Moby Grape was Bill Graham said put him on.
Guest:And Grateful Dead, too?
Guest:Same with The Grateful Dead.
Guest:Janus knocked us out.
Guest:So Janus, Andrew, Otis, of course.
Guest:How was that?
Guest:That must have been amazing.
Guest:Otis was amazing.
Guest:Otis, and he knew...
Guest:Because he says in the Penny Big, this is a love crowd, isn't it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He knew that it was a different crowd for him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was the largest white audience that he had before.
Marc:So the love crowd was the hippie idea.
Marc:So this is like everything had changed over.
Marc:And it was before it got weird and bad in the 70s.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so many of them died shortly after.
Guest:He didn't get to see it.
Guest:I think he died in December of that year, maybe.
Guest:And this was June.
Marc:And Janice was dead, what, 71?
Marc:71.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Terrible.
Marc:Hendrix.
Marc:70 what?
Marc:Same?
Marc:71?
Guest:71, I think.
Guest:They were all 27.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Isn't that crazy?
Marc:That's nuts.
Marc:Yeah, you don't know.
Guest:Morrison.
Marc:Did you know that guy?
Guest:I know him a little bit.
Guest:He was actually at one of my weddings.
Marc:Did he behave himself?
Guest:He behaved himself, yeah.
Marc:So you just stay in the game.
Marc:You open the Roxy in 73, but mostly up until that point, you're producing and putting out records on your label.
Marc:And the idea of the Roxy, because it seems like a joint venture, what was the fundamental idea?
Marc:Was it to entertain or was it to have an outlet for these bands here in L.A.
Marc:for exposure?
Guest:I'll tell you that this story is true.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Carole King is going to play her first headlining show at the Troubadour.
Marc:But is this post-Tapestry or before?
Guest:Post-Tapestry.
Guest:Before Tapestry.
Marc:So you haven't recorded that yet?
Marc:No.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:We might have started.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:So I'm going to time to sound check.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:At the Troubadour, yeah.
Guest:She's on my label.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm her producer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And manager.
Guest:Right.
Guest:About 4 o'clock in the afternoon, I knock on the door.
Guest:It opens about an inch.
Guest:The guy says, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, I'm here for Carole King's sound check.
Guest:It's closed.
Guest:I said, no, I'm her manager.
Guest:I use that, see where that gets me.
Guest:He says, I don't know.
Guest:I don't know your name.
Guest:I said, my name's on the list.
Guest:He says, I don't have a list.
Guest:I said, I made a list.
Guest:He says, maybe it's at the back door.
Guest:I go around to the back door through the alley.
Guest:Same guy opens the door.
Guest:Same guy?
Guest:Same guy opens the door.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, what I told you at the front door is what I'm now telling you at the back door.
Guest:And I repeat myself.
Guest:I don't remember if I got in or if I left or what happened.
Guest:That and the fact that when the Axe played the troubadour, they had assigned six or seven options at the same money that they made on the first time they played.
Guest:So Elton John...
Guest:Finally pays $35,000, $40,000 to get out of the contract.
Marc:Oh, so it goes on for years to contract?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Seven different times.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In perpetuity.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Seven times you play anywhere, you're going to play the troubadour, and this is how much you're going to get.
Guest:Those things factored into it.
Guest:Also— You were pissed.
Yeah.
Guest:I was really pissed.
Guest:My partner was Elmer Valentine, who had started the Whiskey and Go-Go, who actually doesn't get the credit he should.
Guest:He turned rock and roll lights on Sunset Boulevard.
Guest:He's the guy that brought it there.
Guest:A Chicago cop, bad cop, but a Chicago cop.
Guest:And he says, I think...
Guest:The Largo, which was a burlesque house next door to the Rainbow, which we had already opened, is available.
Guest:The guy wants to sell it.
Guest:So I said, let's open something.
Guest:Let's open something that treats the act right, that gives them the best possible...
Guest:dressing room, sound system, everything that they weren't getting at the troubadour.
Guest:And he says, let's talk.
Marc:Yeah, this is Elmer Valentine.
Guest:Elmer Valentine.
Marc:He was a cop in Chicago?
Marc:Bad cop.
Marc:Throw him out of Chicago.
Marc:To be a bad cop in Chicago, you got to be pretty bad.
Marc:Every cop was bad.
Marc:You got to be pretty bad to be thrown out of Chicago.
Marc:So he's a tough guy.
Guest:He's tough.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So this is 73, you decide?
Marc:72.
Marc:72.
Marc:And when does Tapestry come out?
Guest:71.
Guest:71.
Marc:So that, like, because I was kind of looking at the, you know, in terms of producing and putting out records, I mean, that was one of the biggest records ever at the time.
Guest:At the time, and for a long time, maybe still, I don't know, Clive Davis as Whitney Houston was bigger.
Guest:But I think the Carole King still might be the biggest selling record by a solo female artist.
Yeah.
Marc:It's like, you know, it's one of those records my parents had, you know what I mean?
Guest:Also, every time there's a new mode, somebody buys tapestry to put it in there.
Guest:You know, we started a vinyl CD, whatever it goes, digital, whatever it goes to, they buy it.
Marc:And your piece of that record was as a producer and as the original label.
Marc:And do you have a part of the publishing as well?
Guest:No, Carol has all the publishing.
Marc:But so that, like on some level, you know, made your life that record in terms of money.
Guest:Made my kids life.
Guest:That's what it did.
Guest:All seven of them?
Guest:Put them all through school.
Marc:Isn't that something about that business?
Marc:So after that hits like that, you know, you've got a lot more freedom in terms of like.
Guest:I always felt like I had freedom.
Guest:I can't remember back.
Guest:The only time I remember once I had a deal at Columbia CBS or whatever records that I left in the middle because I just couldn't take it.
Marc:yeah yeah well working for somebody yeah yeah too many rules too many regulations but what's interesting is like you know looking at some of the information i have it seems like you know you tried you did some film producing and directing yeah i directed up in smoke what is that you directed up in smoke yeah
Marc:That's a good movie.
Guest:I am produced, but I directed it.
Marc:But did you find that you liked it, or one was enough, or it was in your bag, or what?
Guest:It depends on where I was in my life.
Guest:I directed one other film after that called The Fabulous Stains, which is sort of a cult film.
Guest:It didn't do really well theatrically.
Guest:I just had an instinct feel for it on Up in Smoke.
Marc:They were your guys, right?
Marc:I knew the guys.
Guest:We had already done six albums.
Marc:But that's the other thing.
Marc:It's like you do Carole King, and then all of a sudden, it seems like the other biggest earners at the time were those Cheech and Chong records.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean.
Guest:Ode Records.
Guest:That was Ode Records?
Guest:Beautiful Boutique.
Marc:Yeah, that was your label.
Marc:Yeah, it was.
Marc:Now, Cheech and Chong, see, like, a lot of people don't, I don't think, realize this.
Marc:And I guess, you know, I talked to the both of them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A few years ago.
Marc:And having grown up on that.
Marc:Together?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:It was like, it was a rare thing, but it was right when they started to kind of be able to be together again, right?
Marc:But the funny thing was, there's my old house and I had the two of them in here and I got my headphones on.
Marc:And because I grew up with their records, just hearing them talk.
Guest:Oh, it's crazy.
Marc:I mean,
Marc:I couldn't fucking believe it.
Marc:It was right there in front of me, and they're just talking regular, and it's like it's fucking Cheech and Chong.
Marc:But I think they gave you credit for, and I think that people don't realize it, that that turned comedy records into something huge.
Marc:I mean, it was because of you and utilizing the FM radio stations, right, and getting the airplane on FM radio stations.
Guest:Well, there were a couple things.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:One is that I made, my idea was to make ear movies.
Guest:So I added effects to the comedy.
Guest:Doors slamming, cars pulling away.
Guest:Sure, sure, sure, sure.
Guest:It was an air movie.
Guest:You could listen to the comedy.
Marc:An air movie.
Guest:You could visualize it all.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It was all there.
Marc:Like, you know, Sergeant Sedanko, right?
Marc:You know, class.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then the driving.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Hey, Dave's not here, man.
Marc:Yeah, all that stuff.
Marc:Like there was stuff in cars.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you could hear the car so that when Cheech was singing along, all those songs he made up, it made sense.
Guest:He was just driving along.
Marc:And also made them more playable because they had texture to them.
Marc:So you could do a Cheech and Chong cut in between songs with a nice evolution.
Marc:It didn't necessarily change the entire tone like you're listening to stand-up.
Guest:As a DJ, right.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You could just sort of ease into it and it would make sense immediately.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it was huge.
Marc:Those were like those records sold.
Guest:They were radio.
Guest:Well, we decided not to carry a banner for weed.
Guest:We take it somewhere.
Guest:And I told the promotion men at A&M, if they say, well, we don't know if we can play, thank you very much.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Walk away.
Guest:If the guy shows enthusiasm, that's the guy you want.
Marc:Right.
Guest:The other ones, let it go.
Marc:Right, in terms of because of their discomfort around drugs?
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So the way I publicized it was on buses and bus benches.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's how I advertised it.
Marc:With the first record you did that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, one of the records, Big Bamboo, was like a rolling paper cover.
Marc:I mean, to find that record with the giant piece of rolling paper.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah, I think I found one.
Marc:I mean, you can get them.
Marc:I think Los Bambinos was my first Cheech and Chong record.
Yeah.
Marc:Cheech is a great guy.
Guest:Oh, Cheech is.
Guest:Not only that, he's real smart.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, his story, being a potter and then dodging the draft and then coming back, it's crazy.
Guest:Going to Canada.
Marc:Yeah, and Tommy Chong's story with the family who owned the strip club and all that shit.
Marc:I mean, it's crazy.
Guest:They're both a movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Individually.
Marc:Now they seem to be promoting their weed together all the time.
Marc:They seem to be doing a thing together.
Guest:Well, Cheech has sort of backed off performance.
Guest:Tommy continues with his wife, Shelby.
Guest:Cheech is very much into his Latin art museum.
Marc:Yeah, I had a tremendous time with both of them.
Marc:But those records, I mean, that must have been a blast.
Marc:So you did how many, you know, you did all the Cheech and Chong records.
Guest:I didn't do Cheech's solo record, Born in East L.A.
Marc:Oh, yeah, right, right.
Marc:I didn't do that record.
Marc:So what the last one you did was like the wedding album or something?
Marc:I did that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think I did all their albums.
Marc:But between Cheech and Chong and Carole King, those were the big ones, right?
Guest:I had success with a group called Tom Scott and the L.A.
Guest:Express on Ode.
Okay.
Guest:Spirit.
Guest:Oh, Spirit.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:They were your guy.
Guest:Jay Ferguson in that gang.
Guest:Great guy.
Guest:Great musician.
Guest:Around the same time.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But this is the time also that you become sort of hands-on at the Roxy, right around the same time, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sort of hands-on.
Guest:We had bookers.
Guest:I didn't do the booking.
Marc:Was Geffen a partner as well?
Guest:Was you and Geffen?
Guest:No, he was sort of a consultant.
Guest:Elliot Roberts?
Guest:Elliot put up money and was a consultant.
Marc:I met Elliot before he passed.
Marc:I met him with what?
Guest:Terrific fellow.
Marc:It was so funny because I interviewed Neil at my old house.
Marc:Hmm.
Marc:And he brings this like, you know, 70-something-year-old posse with him.
Marc:You know, just a bunch of gray hair coming up the driveway.
Marc:And that was an interesting afternoon for me.
Marc:I was lucky because Neil in the moment seemed to take a liking to me and was amenable to talk.
Marc:It took a minute, but it was pretty good.
Guest:He's got good stuff to say when he talks.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, but you got to earn it.
Marc:You have to earn it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's not going to volunteer it.
Marc:No.
Marc:Yeah, it was kind of a great experience to talk to that guy.
Guest:He just had two great shows at the Rocks.
Marc:That's what I heard.
Marc:I heard it must have been amazing.
Guest:Amazing.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I talked to Crosby, too.
Marc:You know, he was sort of, you know, he was something.
Marc:It's very...
Guest:Well, it was the times.
Guest:We had a lot of crazy people.
Marc:But the way he talks about Neil, it was really kind of stunning that the first time he met Neil was up in Laurel Canyon, and Neil whipped out a guitar, and Crosby was sort of like, oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is the guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They all knew he was the guy.
Guest:Yeah, they did.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, a special guy, huh?
Marc:All those folk rock people.
Marc:Well, you know, you listen to that Neil stuff, and it doesn't age a day.
Marc:Most of the Neil stuff, no matter when it was recorded, because the production was so not fucked with, like those early Neil records, they're timeless, and it's kind of amazing.
Guest:That's the way it was that somebody said in a review I read, he hasn't played with the guys in Crazy Horse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:for years, and they play like they just met.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I think he likes to keep it loose.
Marc:He has this amp that he doesn't even know if it's going to work after time.
Marc:I think he's got a guy that just manages his amplifier.
Marc:It's just the way he is.
Marc:He's kind of got this weird magic to him.
Marc:He's magical.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, there aren't many guys like that, right?
Guest:No.
Guest:I had the great fortune of working with three of the greatest songwriters of not only a certain period, but maybe of all time.
Guest:And they were all magical in a way.
Guest:Sam Cooke, John Phillips, Mamas and Papas, and Carole King.
Guest:And along comes Neil.
Marc:That's crazy, right?
Marc:Oh, you produced that John Phillips solo album, which people love.
Marc:That's a little dark and a little interesting, huh?
Guest:He was dark at that time.
Guest:He had lost Michelle.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So now when the Roxy gets going, does it take up, like you say you weren't hands-on, you had bookers and stuff, but it feels like now it was the 50th anniversary of,
Marc:But when you look back on that, I mean, were you at all the shows?
Marc:I mean, you're in town.
Marc:Did you go?
Guest:Well, I was single.
Guest:It was my life.
Guest:I was hanging out on Sunset Boulevard.
Guest:So to have a place that— You were single, rich, and a club owner.
Guest:What else could you ask for?
Guest:All I could ask for was kids and they started coming at that point.
Guest:But yeah, I had it all, you know.
Marc:And those nights there, I mean, like, you know, a lot of people talk about when the first time Bob Marley came to the States.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, I just started thinking about that today, you know, because, you know, my generation, I think people, you know, the music, you take it for granted in a lot of ways, you know, the reggae or whatever.
Marc:But I just started to think this morning about what it must have been like to see that group of people, you know, live for the first time.
Marc:It was almost like it had never been seen before.
Right.
Guest:Any one of them that hit the stage.
Guest:We were a 500—well, at one point, the clash at midnight, we put 1,300 people into the rock scene.
Marc:No kidding.
Marc:Was it like 77 or something?
Marc:76.
Guest:You came in.
Guest:You took a spot.
Guest:That's where you stayed.
Guest:You couldn't move.
Guest:But it's true.
Guest:And the English acts coming over.
Guest:Genesis.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Early on, huh?
Guest:All those acts that you just heard about and they were sort of mysterious.
Guest:But you got to see them.
Marc:Right, but I can't imagine when reggae was just starting to sort of blow up and he was the guy that, you know, I think Nicholson even talks about the first time he saw Bob Marley, it was like the greatest concert.
Marc:Yeah, it was that night.
Marc:It was at the Roxy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Everybody came and they were just like, what the fuck?
Guest:Yeah, what is this?
Guest:And, you know, where's it going?
Marc:Yeah, and you did a lot of live records there as well, right?
Guest:Yeah, in fact, we're putting out...
Guest:for music hours, about seven or eight, maybe 10 live tracks from the Roxy.
Marc:I think I saw Dweezil do his father's whole set at the Roxy not too long ago, a few years ago.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:Stephen Marley on Sunday did his father's.
Marc:But you had so many people come through there, and I don't think people realize, or maybe I didn't realize, that a lot of times when you say Genesis, they weren't popular here yet, right?
Guest:No, a lot of the acts that we had were introduced.
Guest:to the American, not only public, but DJs, certainly writers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you had the very hip writers that had picked up on them already.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:But the general writers.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the general sort of, you know, the L.A.
Guest:Times.
Marc:So they would come and that would start to get them some traction.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's why it was important.
Guest:Well...
Guest:It was the only place to play, I think.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So the troubadour was not?
Guest:Well, the troubadour was folk rock.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Still?
Guest:Well, no, Elton John broke out of there.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But in the Eagles, too, right?
Guest:Eagles liked playing the troubadour.
Marc:And did they play?
Marc:They must have played the Roxy once, no?
Guest:Never played the Roxy.
Marc:No kidding.
Marc:But, like, if I look at the, like, see, like, if I look at just the acts that came through there, it's such a vast, it's so, like, it's the whole spectrum of music.
Marc:I mean, you've got the Temptations there.
Marc:I mean, you had, what was it, Jerry Lee Lewis at some point, too?
Marc:Yeah, we did.
Marc:And that must have been when?
Guest:The 70s, so he was... It was late.
Marc:Yeah, but he still was kind of crazy, right?
Yeah.
Marc:He was always crazy, but he probably still put on a good show.
Guest:I mean, he was Jerry Lee Lewis.
Marc:Yeah, the New York Dolls, 74.
Guest:Yeah, Joe Cocker.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, it's crazy.
Marc:And Zappa, of course.
Marc:Were you friends with Frank?
Guest:Not real friends with Frank.
Marc:He wasn't a party guy.
Guest:No, Charlie Newman respected him.
Marc:Yeah, Billy Joel, Smokey Robinson, Springsteen recorded there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:75 Springsteen that's crazy amazing how long was the set two hours no he didn't do it he hadn't gotten into that most of the sets were between 45 and an hour 15 sure and Patti Smith did her first LA thing there too right and Lou Reed played there in 76 too Lou Reed did play there yeah
Marc:Oh, that must have been—I wonder what era that was.
Marc:I don't remember that show.
Marc:And you also had like a party room there, right?
Guest:Well, we had upstairs on the rocks.
Marc:Yeah, and that was like a—but that was just for— A private club.
Marc:Yeah, and that must have been nuts for a decade.
Guest:That was nuts.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:That was crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just added to the craziness.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you went through it, man.
Marc:You made it.
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:Yeah, it is, right?
Guest:Yeah, I wasn't much of an addictor.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I could take it and leave it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was never crazy with drugs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:I used them.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Take them or leave them?
Guest:Didn't use them, yeah.
Marc:Oh, the Sex Pistols were there too.
Marc:What was that?
Marc:How was that?
Guest:I love the Sex Pistols.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're still friends with, do you know Steve?
Guest:I did a couple shows with him.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in the second film I did that I directed, Steve and Cookie, the drummer, are in the film.
Guest:As well as Fee Weybill.
Marc:Oh, from the tubes.
Guest:And Paul Sinema from The Clash.
Marc:Those were great acts.
Marc:I just went and watched the reissue of the Talking Heads movie.
Marc:Stopped Making Sense.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Spectacular.
Marc:And they were there.
Marc:Diva was there.
Marc:Diva was from here, weren't they, Diva?
Marc:No, they're from Ohio.
Marc:But they're around.
Marc:Mother's Ba is here.
Marc:The Cars were there, B.B.
Marc:King, Herbie Hancock.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Cars, Boston.
Marc:Yeah, Boston.
Marc:And Prince played there in 79.
Marc:That must have been amazing.
Guest:Prince was crazy in a sense.
Guest:He didn't want to step on Sunset Boulevard.
Guest:His bodyguard carried him from the club to the car.
Marc:What was the reasoning?
Guest:Never found out, but he didn't want to go on Sunset Boulevard.
No.
Marc:And like 1980, I'm looking at Muddy Waters, The Clash.
Guest:I'm looking at my kids in the 80s.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:But Muddy, was that where the Stones did that video?
Marc:Did they do that?
Marc:I don't know if that was it.
Marc:No.
Marc:But Muddy was, that was sort of his resurgence.
Guest:I think they did that in Chicago.
Marc:Oh, did they?
Guest:I think so.
Marc:But Muddy was kind of popping again.
Marc:That was when Johnny Winters was doing those records with him, I think, right?
Guest:Yeah, exactly, right.
Marc:So he kind of had this kind of resurgence.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We have those kind of artists because you got to a certain point in your career where it felt right to go to a place that would give you that kind of shot.
Marc:Give you a little credibility with the young people.
Marc:Validate.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, also, like, I mean, I think I saw, Kenison did, Sam Kenison, I believe, did that.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He did that special with the Roxy.
Marc:Yes, he did.
Marc:And he did it there because, I think, because Robin filmed there and Richard Pryor filmed there.
Guest:Richard Pryor did a special there.
Guest:Robin Williams did a special there.
Marc:That's a famous one, that Robin Williams.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think Sam's first, that first HBO special was at the Roxy and that was crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But who else?
Marc:You say Chris Rock too?
Marc:Chris Rock did it.
Marc:Who was the first one?
Marc:I think everybody, like usually comics, they want to perform it.
Guest:I think Pryor.
Marc:That must've been it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think Richard Pryor.
Marc:Were you friends with him?
Marc:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because like usually comics, if it becomes established as a venue.
Guest:Well, there was one right down the street that was the comedy store.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:And for a long time, if an act performed at the Roxy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:she wouldn't let them come back to the comedy store.
Guest:But because these acts were so big, she let them come back.
Marc:So they started at the comedy store, but at that time, they weren't shooting specials at the comedy store.
Guest:No, it was Ciro's, right?
Marc:Well, Ciro's, it wasn't Ciro's.
Marc:By 73, it was a store, and Ciro's had been black for a while.
Marc:And I guess there was a guy, didn't a guy own that one part of the room that was sort of a music venue for a while that he took over?
Guest:Rock and roll.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then, like, I think Sammy Shore got the half of the club and started the comedy store, and then she took it over in 73 when they divorced.
Marc:You didn't have business with her?
Guest:I knew Pauly fairly well.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But, no, I never had any.
Marc:And it was just down the street, and it was like its own thing.
Guest:It wasn't the strip.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:The strip.
Guest:Which started for us at the Whiskey.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And include the Viper Room.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Everything from the Tower Records.
Marc:Right, over west.
Marc:Up through Doheny.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Got it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, that's good to know.
Marc:Did you go to the comedy shows?
Marc:Did you see Richard and everybody?
Guest:I saw Richard Pryor, yeah.
Guest:And I saw part of the Robin Williams show.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I drop in on those.
Marc:Now, the one interesting key to the Roxy is it seems like right after you opened it, you just put the Rocky Horror Picture Show in there for a year.
Guest:75.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, this is before it was a movie.
Marc:It was a stage show, but you must have been so taken with that.
Marc:I mean, were you just in love with the show or was that a financial decision?
Marc:What was it?
Guest:I haven't made, other than outside of the music business, that's where my financial decisions were made.
Guest:I didn't make too many within the music business or the entertainment business.
Guest:Oh, interesting.
Guest:I had my first boy, his name is Nikolai, with Britt Eklund, who is a Swedish-English actress.
Guest:And she lived in London with my son, who lived there for the first couple years of his life.
Guest:And I used to go in every six weeks or so to visit him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she called in the middle of one of those three-week centers.
Guest:She says, there's a show here, the Rocky Horror Show.
Guest:You ought to come and see it.
Guest:And so I flew in to see it.
Guest:I was in jet lag.
Guest:The music, Tim Curry, all of that just got me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That night I went to a party in London.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I met Michael White, the original producer.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Made a deal and brought it to the Roxy.
Marc:And it stayed for a year?
Marc:Nine months.
Marc:And it was just selling out, went crazy.
Marc:Every night.
Marc:And then the movie happened after?
Guest:No, then we went to Broadway and failed.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:So you were the American producer?
Guest:I was the American producer.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And did you have anything to do with the film?
Marc:I produced it.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That thing had a life forever?
Guest:Still.
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, this Halloween, September, October, November.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Will's 800, 900 theaters on Halloween.
Marc:It's just generation after generation learns the ritual of being part of the movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because they have that 17 and older, it's a rite of passage.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's still going.
Marc:Still going.
Marc:That's crazy, man.
Marc:So that was a good decision on your part, huh?
Marc:Not bad.
Marc:And then some of these other bands, too, like Guns N' Roses and Jane's Addiction, they started at the Roxy, too, a bit, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Yes, they did.
Marc:Great band.
Guest:Guns N' Roses might have played the whiskey before.
Marc:But you guys all knew each other on the strip, right?
Marc:It's a community.
Marc:The club owners, right?
Guest:Well, I owned the whiskey for a while with Elmer and the...
Guest:Maglieri family which was Mario Maglieri he was from Chicago he wasn't a cop he was a bag man he was a bag man for the judge put the money in the bag I'll give it to the judge when you met him he was at
Marc:Or was it after that?
Guest:He came to Chicago.
Guest:He was the doorman at the whiskey.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And manager.
Guest:Ended up being part of the ownership.
Marc:So was there mob involvement?
Guest:No, we had one incident.
Guest:I used to go to the whiskey every night when Johnny Rivers was playing there.
Guest:And I get a message from Johnny, can I come back to the dressing room?
Guest:And I go back to the dressing room, and there's two guys in there besides Johnny.
Guest:One is in a suit, lawyer type.
Guest:And the other guy, definitely smushed nose type of guy.
Guest:And the lawyer hands me a paper, signed this.
Guest:I take a look at the bottom.
Guest:I knew quickly it was...
Guest:piece of Johnny Rivers.
Guest:I said, I'm not signing this.
Guest:The other guy says to me something like, how about I stuff your arms down your neck and every kind of threat.
Guest:I says, well, give me the paper.
Guest:Let me take it overnight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went to Elmer, and Elmer flew to Chicago.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:And talked to the boss and called those guys off.
Marc:So Elmer still had a little weight.
Marc:Still had a little weight.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That's crazy.
Marc:And you used to go to all the Lakers games for a while, right?
Marc:Still do?
Guest:I still go, but I don't go to as many.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I used to go to every game.
Marc:With Jack.
Yeah.
Guest:Jack and I would be at every game.
Marc:How's he doing?
Guest:Jack's doing whatever he really wants to do.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He wants to be quiet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He wants to eat what he wants.
Guest:He wants to live the life he wants.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I remember some guy, there's a friend of mine wanted to put him in a movie, and he had a conversation with him.
Marc:But Jack says, I don't want to do it.
Marc:He goes, you know what I did today?
Marc:I sat under a tree and I read a book.
Guest:That sounds like Jack.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:It was great talking to you.
Marc:I appreciate you taking the time.
Guest:Oh, thanks very much.
Guest:You asked the right questions.
Marc:Oh, thank you, man.
Marc:Okay, there you go.
Marc:Right?
Marc:How good was that?
Marc:Fucking Cheech and Chong.
Marc:You can go to Roxy.com for all the events they're holding in honor of the 50th anniversary.
Marc:And please, if you could, hang out a minute.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So the latest Archive Deep Dive is now posted for Full Merit subscribers.
Marc:We revisit episode 200.
Marc:The interesting thing that we talked about a lot at the beginning of the podcast was now I've got all of these new fans who don't know me as a comic.
Marc:It was a big concern for me.
Marc:at the beginning, and it was hard for me.
Marc:Like, you know, that, you know, I was like, I didn't get into this game to be an interviewer.
Marc:I know it was a job on television that I tried to get, but ultimately, and it's even stronger now, you know, I've always been and always wanted to be a comic of some relevance.
Guest:And we didn't start the podcast for you to be an interviewer.
Guest:We started the podcast for you to do a radio show that highlighted you the way we were doing it on the air at Air America and various other outlets.
Guest:And the thought was this will be a way to help your standup career.
Guest:Like it was a side gig to help out with your profile.
Guest:It wasn't thought to be an interview show and that you were going to be the interview guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I guess that's right.
Marc:I forget that.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:To get bonus episodes twice a week and all WTF episodes ad-free, go to the link in the episode description and sign up for the full Marin.
Marc:Or go to WTFpod.com and sign up for WTF+.
Marc:Next week, it's a real New York City week, folks, with documentarian John Wilson on Monday and world music legend Laraji on Thursday.
Marc:Those are good.
Marc:Those are both interesting.
Marc:And now here's some slide guitar for my friend Lorraine.
Yeah.
guitar solo
Marc:Who more lives?
Marc:Monkey and LaFonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.