Episode 1480 - Doug Stanhope / Louis Katz
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuck, Knicks?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:Today's an exciting show.
Marc:It's another comedian doubleheader.
Marc:Both of these guys have been on before.
Marc:They're back because I like talking to both of them.
Marc:Louis Katz is a comedian who was working with me pretty regularly right before the launch of WTF in 2009.
Marc:He's been on the show several times since then, including a full length episode in 2019 and a live episode back in 2010.
Marc:And he's releasing a new comedy special on his YouTube channel tonight.
Marc:Tonight, Louis Katz is releasing a special.
Marc:I think he's a very funny guy.
Marc:I think you'll enjoy it.
Marc:And the other guy who's on today is Doug Stanhope.
Marc:And Doug has been coming on since the very beginning.
Marc:Episode 22.
Marc:Episode 204.
Marc:Episode 712.
Marc:Now, he's got a movie coming out called The Road Dog.
Marc:Capturing the life of a...
Marc:mid-level road comic.
Marc:A journeyman.
Marc:A comedy troubadour out there living the life.
Marc:And I think they got a lot of things right.
Marc:It was nice talking to Doug and Louie.
Marc:And you'll get to enjoy that shortly.
Marc:I will be in Boston at the TD Garden for Comics Come Home on Saturday, November 4th.
Marc:Denver, Colorado.
Marc:I'll be at the Comedy Works South for four shows.
Marc:November 17th and 18th.
Marc:And Los Angeles...
Marc:I'm at Dynasty Typewriter on December 1st, 13th, 28th.
Marc:I'm at the Elysian on December 6th, 5th, 22nd.
Marc:And Largo again on December 12th and January 9th.
Marc:You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets.
Marc:That's a lot of comedy I'm doing.
Marc:I did some comedy last night and I was like, I can't get too polished.
Marc:I got to keep it rough.
Marc:Got to figure out how to, there's some bits I need to get tight, but man, that's a lot of comedy, but it's what I do, man.
Marc:It's who I am, man.
Marc:So look, the other day I was talking to you about, um,
Marc:About the Bellingham show and about seeing that family of kids.
Marc:And I've got some emails and, you know, and look, you know, I've rethought it a little bit again.
Marc:I don't know if obviously it's up to a parent unless it's absolutely no children allowed kind of thing.
Marc:But I would have been pretty excited probably to see me if I were a young me.
Marc:I like seeing grown-up stuff.
Marc:So, you know, there's wiggle room around it in terms of age.
Marc:But I got some emails.
Marc:Hey, Mark, my wife and I have seen you live in Portland, Oregon multiple times.
Marc:We've seen all your specials.
Marc:We have a five-year-old and a three-year-old.
Marc:We talk to our kids a lot about feelings, emotions, and how to express them and process them in a healthy way.
Marc:No, we're not therapists.
Marc:I think it's good for kids to see adults talk openly about their feelings, especially the ones that are hard to talk about.
Marc:You do that a lot and you come from a genuine place.
Marc:You talk about real feelings, real experiences, your real struggles in processing them, and you manage to make it hilarious.
Marc:Some comics use their struggles as sort of a prop in their comedy or a means to an end.
Marc:I, and he quotes, quote, I used to be an alcoholic.
Marc:Here's some funny stuff that happened.
Marc:I wouldn't want my nine to 12 year old seeing that.
Marc:It's fine.
Marc:It can be funny, but it's flippant.
Marc:You talk about serious shit and make it hilarious without downplaying the struggle or the depth of the emotion.
Marc:Very few comics can do that.
Marc:You, Bamford Chappelle, Roy Wood Jr., Tom Linson.
Marc:Don't worry, I won't be bringing our kids to your shows anytime soon, even if they were older, because I wouldn't want to cause you stress.
Marc:But you can understand why parents would make that choice.
Marc:Thank you for everything, Mark Matthew.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, I get that.
Marc:But still, you know, there's still I guess there's something because I don't have kids.
Marc:Here's another one from another Matt.
Marc:You have values.
Marc:You're principled and kids can handle it.
Marc:Thanks for all your work.
Marc:Yeah, but OK, let's see what this one says.
Marc:Almost 20 years ago, I brought my 13 year old to Caroline's.
Marc:It was called the New York Comedy Festival.
Marc:And John Heffron was performing and we'd come from New Hampshire to a family gathering.
Marc:We'd watched the last comic standing and I knew he was a clean comic.
Marc:They warned us at the door, but we went in anyways.
Marc:Russman Eve opened.
Marc:He was really dirty.
Marc:Then Marina Franklin came on and she kept yelling cock.
Marc:I felt so embarrassed.
Marc:My son laughed, but I still felt guilty.
Marc:I will be at Comics Come Home with my other son, who is an adult.
Marc:Looking forward to it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, thank you.
Marc:Thank you, Maggie.
Marc:Here's another one.
Marc:Dear Mr. Marin, my wife and I brought our 13-year-old twin sons to The Bellingham Show.
Marc:We had a great time.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:With the exceptions of porn and extreme representations of violence, my wife and I decided to let our sons watch R-rated material when they turn 10, especially comedy.
Marc:Laughter is very important.
Marc:As they're watching, they ask us questions.
Marc:The material generates a dialogue.
Marc:And when they go out in the world and hear crazy, misinformed stuff from their peers, our sons are prepared to process it.
Marc:Most importantly...
Marc:They're prepared and comfortable to come talk to us.
Marc:Maybe we're wrong, but I want to be the one explaining life's sick ironies to my sons.
Marc:Parenting is a mind-boggling tapestry of mistakes, but we've found love, structure, honesty, and making sure no one goes to bed angry has been serving our family well.
Marc:That being said, nine years old might be a little young.
Marc:You handled it well.
Marc:Thanks so much and take care.
Marc:Eric, Andrea, John, and Charles.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:The other thing I've been realizing, and I've told this story before, and I recently talked about it again because I realized that there's this idea, and I think I might have mentioned it before, that kids can only understand what they understand.
Marc:If they have no context for something or they have no idea what you're really talking about, they just don't understand it.
Marc:And that's the end of it.
Marc:And I think that's probably true.
Marc:And I think that I should kind of recalibrate how I consider children at my shows.
Marc:Look, I don't want them sitting up front because it is going to make me self-conscious because I'm a dirty, talking old man.
Marc:And some of the ideas that I talk about are, you know, they're mostly whether it's, you know, psychological or, you know, sexual.
Marc:It's just it's a lot.
Marc:But I get what they're saying.
Marc:And I also get my understanding.
Marc:I get that they think that it's OK to provoke conversation and explain.
Marc:And I also think that kids only understand what they understand, because I thought about it again when I was very young.
Marc:I mean, I don't even know, 10 or 11, probably.
Marc:My grandparents were visiting our family in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Marc:And I guess my mother and father wanted a day off from the kids and told my grandparents to take us to the movies.
Marc:And they took us to see Deliverance, not knowing what Deliverance was.
Marc:Now, obviously, it's sexually violent.
Marc:It's violent, violent.
Marc:Some gnarly stuff in there.
Marc:A man gets raped by, I don't know, hill people.
Marc:Now, I knew that and I remember when I told this story, I remembered deliverance from when I was a kid.
Marc:And I saw it again later in life, not too long ago.
Marc:And I was able to sort of isolate what my child mind did not remember.
Marc:And it's kind of interesting and I think provocative.
Marc:That, look, when Ned Beatty's character gets raped, when I was a kid, I just remember squeal like a pig.
Marc:I remember him, you know, being men, you know, kind of pushed around in the mud in his underpants.
Marc:But that was really all I remembered.
Marc:And when I watched as an adult, I was surprised at how graphic that violent rape was of that man, that character.
Marc:Like, it lingers on it.
Marc:It's clear what's happening.
Marc:And it's profoundly disturbing.
Marc:But my...
Marc:Child brain had no context for what was going on there.
Marc:Like, I remember the guy in his underwear being bullied and being made to squeal like a pig.
Marc:I don't remember that guy raping him, which they clearly show.
Marc:Now, oddly, what did scar my mind from when I was a child and as an adult, it does not have the same effect on me.
Marc:was two things.
Marc:When Burt Reynolds shoots an arrow into that guy while he's raping the Ned Beatty character, and it goes right through him, and the arrow comes right through his heart and sticks out of his chest as the guy dies.
Marc:I remember the expression on his face.
Marc:I remember that arrow sticking out of his heart.
Marc:And that stayed.
Marc:That burned in.
Marc:That was horrific.
Marc:I also remember Burt Reynolds on the boat after they capsized and he smashed his leg and there was just like a flank of meat hanging out of his ripped wetsuit and a bone sticking out.
Marc:I remember that more than anything.
Marc:Just this piece of leg that was supposed to be on the inside, on the outside.
Marc:As an adult, it looks like a big hunk of meat.
Marc:But as a kid, I'm like, oh, my God.
Marc:His whole leg is sticking out and its muscles.
Marc:It was horrific.
Marc:And I remember that, and I remember them finding the body of the guy that fell off and drowned, all tangled up in the driftwood or whatever.
Marc:So, oddly, without any context, the sexual violence did not really register in my childhood brain.
Marc:But the violence violence...
Marc:Not only registered, terrified me and stayed there, stayed there.
Marc:So that's interesting.
Marc:I guess that ultimately, you know, until you're sexually awake or informed or experienced or of age to understand it, it's not really going to land.
Marc:But, you know, violence is something we know from the moment we're conscious in a way, sadly.
Right.
Marc:I don't know what that all means.
Marc:I'm obviously not going to be violently raping any men on stage or, or, or committing acts of violence.
Marc:And maybe I should just relax about, you know, occasionally having a teenager at my show or, or someone a little younger and just rest on the idea that like, well, they're not going to know what I'm talking about.
Marc:Right.
Right.
Marc:Okay, so Louis Katz, love this guy.
Marc:He asked me to do, like, a lead-in for his special, where I guess I set the tone, which was to be kind of dismissive and sarcastic about Louis' career in stand-up, but...
Marc:But I was happy to have him on, and the special's funny, and I love talking to him.
Marc:That special, Louie Katz Present Tense, premieres tonight, October 19th, on his YouTube channel.
Marc:Go subscribe to his channel, Louie Katz Comedy.
Marc:So this is me and my old pal, Louie Katz.
Louie Katz
Guest:You know, we have the same birthday.
Guest:September.
Guest:Happy birthday, then.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:Same to you.
Guest:How old?
Guest:44.
Guest:You just turned 44.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You, me, Lil Wayne, and Mitski.
Guest:All September 27th.
Guest:Kerry Brownstein.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yep.
Marc:That's pretty cool.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Jerry Stahl's the day after.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's around the zone.
Marc:I just found out Mark Rothko, the great depressive abstract painter, was like the 25th, the same week.
Guest:I'm only going on day of, man.
Marc:No, I know, I know.
Marc:That came up this morning.
Marc:So when were we talking about final engagement?
Marc:Was that outside of the show?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:We've definitely talked about it.
Marc:But I can't remember if it was on the show when you told me that it was like a lifesaver for you, my special.
Guest:i thought it was great cd i love that thing i wish i mean the seeing it live was also dude man i've just never seen someone that vulnerable on stage i don't think even since then it was like i loved seeing you in that i mean angry it's also like this is me and being my hipster you should have you were there i was there before everyone else yeah but you and stan hope yeah when you weren't big draws yeah was the best
Guest:Because you, when you're going through the divorce, it's you on a stool.
Guest:Every second seems like you're going to cry.
Guest:It's half full.
Guest:These people don't know who you are.
Guest:I was like, what is this?
Guest:It was incredible.
Guest:Those were the days.
Guest:Now they're all your fans and stuff.
Guest:It's not the same.
Marc:Well, it's hard to get randos, you know, is what it is.
Marc:I mean, it's hard to get, like, random people just coming in.
Marc:It's easier at a comedy club, but certainly in theaters.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, like, I'll do comedy clubs.
Marc:I had upset a bridal party, a bachelorette party recently.
Marc:You still dealing with that shit?
Marc:Well, I didn't think I would have to, you know, but it does happen.
Marc:I was in St.
Marc:Louis.
Marc:I think it was.
Marc:Was it St.
Marc:Louis?
Marc:It must have been.
Marc:At the Helium.
Marc:And they were over there in the corner with the bride and her dumb hat, whatever the fuck it was, and four girls.
Marc:And they kind of isolated themselves over there.
Marc:And I come out to see how the opener's doing.
Marc:And I see, like, whoever's organizing the party, like, this girl looks at me and goes...
Marc:And I'm like, what?
Marc:It's like, don't you, you can go online and make a decision about the comic you're about to see.
Guest:I always, I have, sometimes I have to stop the show.
Guest:Like, did anyone Google me before you came here?
Guest:Like, what did you think you were going to see?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I said to him, I said, look, I'm not, I'm not, this might not work out for you guys.
Marc:It's not gonna be a fun night.
Marc:You know, and then I shit on him a little bit and I said, you guys can leave.
Marc:You probably have, there's other things you can do.
Marc:You can save your night now.
Marc:And they fucking left.
Marc:Not angry.
Guest:They slipped out.
Guest:Did you assume they were going to not like you?
Guest:Were they actively chatty and not liking you?
Guest:Did you get up there being like, you're going to hate me?
Marc:No, it wasn't hate, but I could see they'd isolated themselves already.
Marc:They weren't in the main audience.
Marc:They weren't in the bulk of the audience.
Marc:They were against the wall, stage left.
Marc:And then I just noticed that they were talking among themselves, and I stopped.
Marc:I'm like, you don't have to stay.
Marc:It's okay to admit that you fucked up.
Marc:I was the wrong comic for you to bring your dumb bachelorette party to, which none of us understand why you do anyways.
Marc:None of us comics, we don't know why you come.
Marc:Why do they come?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's something to do.
Guest:I mean, they're not into strippers, so what are they going to do?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I mean, there's more creative things to do.
Marc:Go to a goddamn dance club.
Marc:We can go stand and watch some sad man for a fucking hour.
Guest:This is what it's going to be like for your husband if things don't work out.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:I don't understand the tradition of it because it clearly is that.
Guest:Dude, I think it's hard for women.
Guest:They do scavenger hunts and crafts.
Guest:It's like guys get into nasty shit on a bachelor party, and I don't think women... As nasty as it gets, it's seeing you.
Marc:I remember... I'm trying to think.
Marc:That joke you do in the special about...
Marc:The bachelor party, that's your opportunity to ruin – well, I don't remember what the joke is.
Marc:We don't have to spoil it.
Marc:But it was a funny observation because I remember – I'm not sure I remember my bachelor – oh, yeah, I do.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:What did you do?
Marc:Well, it was okay.
Marc:You know, like it was the first wedding.
Marc:The second wedding, there was no party.
Marc:There was no bachelor party.
Marc:There was no fathers at the wedding.
Marc:It was just, you know, we did it in the backyard kind of abruptly with me and my big ideas.
Marc:But the first one was a big deal.
Marc:And my guys, they, you know, they rented my buddies in music and he rented a rehearsal space and got some local musicians.
Marc:And we kind of had a jam session and drank.
Marc:But then we went to a strip bar and it was like, it is what it is.
Marc:It's not my bag, you know.
Marc:Never liked it.
Marc:Not really.
Marc:I just never understood it.
Marc:I never understood the I couldn't separate.
Marc:Like, is the idea that that they don't like you at all and they're just doing this as their job?
Guest:That would be funny if they have it like that.
Guest:You know, that Dick's restaurant in Vegas or, you know, the chain where they're like mean to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They have like a strip club like that where there's like mean strippers.
Guest:I bet they have that.
Marc:But that's how I read it all the time.
Marc:That's all I see.
Marc:I don't know what other people are seeing.
Marc:I'm seeing, you know, kind of broken, angry women doing this for a job.
Marc:And some of them are good at it.
Marc:And what determines whether they're good at it or not is if you don't see that.
Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Well, for me, personally, as a fan, I like, if I'm at, I hate TVs and bars.
Guest:All these bars, so many bars are full of screens.
Guest:I want to go to a bar to not look at a screen.
Guest:And you know what would be cool to look at?
Guest:A lady dancing.
Guest:So that's it.
Guest:If the music is good and I'm watching a lady dance, I'd much prefer that to a screen.
Guest:You don't have to throw money at a TV.
Guest:Dude, I mean, all right, all right.
Guest:Point well taken, but still.
Marc:The TV's not demanding your attention.
Guest:Well, you have to go to a place where they're not pushing.
Guest:I'm saying some strip clubs are very demandy and it's like a sad scene.
Marc:So you're saying it's a casual night, maybe go out with a couple of friends, have a couple of drinks.
Marc:Hey, hey, she's coming over here.
Marc:You guys want to watch her sit on my lap and grind on me for a little while?
Guest:I mean, yeah, but also I go to like in Portland, for example, it's different strip cultures depending on where you go.
Guest:And in Portland, it's really like you can buy a lap dance if you want.
Guest:They're not hard selling them to you.
Guest:You just tip the girls that are dancing on the pole when you want and you can chill out and just like hang out.
Guest:They got good food, you know, just chilling.
Marc:The music's good.
Marc:The last couple of times I've gone to a strip club, like there's some part of me...
Marc:I don't know if it's a savior thing or what, but if I walk out with a stripper's phone number, I feel like I've won a Golden Globe Award.
Guest:That is amazing.
Guest:How many times have you done that?
Marc:Twice.
Guest:That's pretty good, man.
Marc:But I didn't follow up on it, and I didn't know if it was for real.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:This is after, what, $200, $300.
Marc:Did you ask for it, or did she give it to you?
Marc:Well, I mean, I don't quite remember, but I remember when I left, I was with my buddy Don.
Marc:It was years ago.
Marc:And I'm like, dude, I got to call this girl.
Marc:And then the next day, I'm like, what for?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:What is it like?
Marc:How is that a big win?
Marc:You know, like what's going on?
Marc:You think you can get away from your old man?
Guest:You think you can get away from the guy that makes you strip to maybe have lunch with me?
Guest:Why are you taking away the agency from these women?
Guest:There's no one making them do it.
Guest:They love it.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Why are you living in a dream?
Marc:No, no, that's right.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I think that's good.
Marc:I think you're correct.
Marc:I'm just bullshitting.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:No, I think that's how you have to look at it in terms of sex work and to be on the right side of things and appropriate.
Marc:They do have agency, but it's not.
Marc:The world is still the world.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I mean, you know, whatever the choice is.
Marc:And I didn't necessarily think we need to get anything into too controversial, but they are primarily depending where they're doing.
Marc:I would say in 80 percent of the time, you know, grinding on losers for fucking money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you're making losers laugh for money.
Guest:No, they're not.
Marc:But the loser coming to laugh can maybe bring his girlfriend or his mom.
Marc:You don't go to a strip club with your mom?
Marc:Not usually.
Marc:Who's going to pick me up?
Marc:So wait, now, am I hallucinating or did you...
Marc:Introduce me to a wife.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've been kind of like, you talked about the bachelor part.
Guest:I didn't want to bring it up because the special is where my life was when I taped it.
Guest:I taped the special a while ago.
Guest:So the special that I'm trying to release right now is about going through a breakup and having no wife.
Guest:And now I have a wife, but I don't want people to know that because I want them to still believe in the special and dig the special.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, no, I mean, ultimately.
Guest:I do have a wife and I love her very much.
Marc:People can watch the special and now they know it turned out okay for you.
Marc:Yes, it did turn out okay.
Marc:So there's less menace to the sad fucking guy.
Marc:Okay, good.
Marc:Okay, yes, yes.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I just got married.
Guest:It was like, dude, it's been a crazy year.
Guest:We got engaged in January and got married in July.
Guest:So it was a big, like very quick and hectic and beautiful and all that stuff.
Guest:How long did you know her?
Guest:We met six weeks before the pandemic.
Guest:And then the pandemic hit and we moved in together right then and there.
Marc:I think that happened to a lot of people.
Marc:I'd like to hear more of those stories that are success stories of relationships that were new.
Marc:But then it became like, well, here you go.
Marc:Now you're together.
Marc:And there's no other way to go.
Guest:I mean, well, we stayed together long enough that there was a time when we could have broke up.
Guest:But it was like, man, it was weird because it felt like the world was falling apart outside of the doors of our apartment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're building this thing together inside.
Guest:It was kind of cool.
Marc:Well, I like that you talk about the last one was the first Jew you dated as a Jew.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:This one, I didn't end up marrying a Jew, so.
Guest:Well, of course not.
Marc:Yeah, but it was one of the best jokes that I ever wrote.
Marc:My first wife was Jewish, and we get along again.
Marc:So the problem with dating a Jewish woman
Marc:For me, it could go either way, man or woman, was that everything you hated about going home is now in your house.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:It's terrible.
Marc:And then the marrying a Jewish woman was sort of like, you can't have the wedding you want.
Marc:And the reason is because Esther can't make it up the hill.
Marc:There's always an Esther.
Marc:And she's not going up the hill.
Marc:That was my grandma's name.
Guest:That was my grandma's name was Esther.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:It's like I get confused by Better Call Saul and Barry because those are my two uncles' names.
Guest:You know, I can't like— Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:All these names are coming back, I guess, somehow.
Guest:But, yeah, but my ex was—she was Jewish, but honestly, she was half Jewish and half Irish, and she was more Irish-relating than Jewish.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:Have you tracked your genetics?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Did you say genetics?
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Genetics.
Marc:The Jewish 23 and me?
Marc:Genetics?
Guest:Well, I haven't done the 23 and me, but my grandpa's way into genealogy.
Guest:And we actually took a trip back to Poland and Belarus and saw where we came from.
Guest:That's where I came from.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Belarus.
Guest:Probably the same village.
Guest:It's Galicia.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:White Russia.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And have you been to Belarus?
Marc:No.
Guest:You're probably not going to go now.
Marc:Yeah, so it seems a little heavy over there.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe you get a job at the Wagner Group.
Marc:But when I think when Galicia was, it was Poland and it was Ukraine and now it's Belarus.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Belarus was Pale Settlement.
Marc:I know that the Pale Settlement was right.
Guest:White Russia, Pale Settlement, Galicia.
Guest:I think it's all the same name for that area.
Guest:Well, Galicia is actually a town in Poland.
Guest:Oh, that's a town.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Where I learned some stuff because I did that Finding Your Root show.
Marc:Oh, cool.
Marc:And it was like an oil boom town in the early 1900s.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Or maybe the 1800s.
Marc:And he was able to track my Jewish people further back into the Palo Settlement and into Poland than he had anyone else.
Marc:That's awesome.
Marc:So I have this bizarro family tree thing.
Marc:That's really cool.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, my grandpa's been working on this for a long, long time.
Guest:He's still working on it, and it is really interesting, but also it's like, I like going there, and it's kind of, they built like, there was a Jewish cemetery, and they built a sports field over it.
Guest:It's like, oh, you don't got to rub it in.
Guest:I know we're bad at sports, but this is kind of rude.
Guest:But also it's like...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just always feel like, yeah, we won.
Guest:We're still here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, like, you know, you watch that, like, Eurozone.
Guest:What's that?
Guest:It's the Kazan competition.
Guest:I don't know what you're talking about.
Guest:I'm just saying, you see what European culture is like without Jews, and they don't have enough black people, and you're like, well, this is what you get.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Maybe you shouldn't have gotten rid of us, because we're fucking, we're pretty amazing when it comes to that stuff.
Guest:Right.
Marc:The thing that fucking freaks me out and scares me all the time just because of the current situation and the tone of anti-Semitism, which I talk about a lot, it seems like my last three specials and what I'm working on now, there's at least 10 minutes about anti-Semitism.
Marc:And some of it is to provoke anti-Semitism in my audience.
Marc:You know, and well, no, because like I talk about that on stage that, you know, sometimes I go on a bit long about it because the truth is, is a lot of people don't know Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's, you know, and they're slowly starting to normalize anti-Semitism.
Marc:Yes, for real.
Marc:So the way that Jews are characterized is pretty specific and pretty old timey.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And a lot of us, you know, you talk about it a little bit in the special about not wanting to do
Marc:Like, I used to say, like, I didn't talk about being a Jew on stage for years because I didn't see there was a way to do it that wasn't honoring the trope, whether it was the neurotic Jew or the old Jew.
Marc:There were two kinds of Jews, the Jew in analysis or the Jew that just wants to sit down.
Marc:Right?
Marc:So...
Marc:And I was like, I don't know where you go with this, but eventually I owned it, but I own it in a different way.
Marc:And it was always about trying to undermine the stereotypes of the bigger ones, like Globe, the Jews that run the world.
Guest:That's what I was actually thinking about, what I want to ask you about, because I've been trying to write a bit about how
Guest:I don't like conspiracy theories because they always end up blaming the Jews.
Guest:And you were a big conspiracy theorist.
Guest:So didn't you go down that rabbit hole for a while and then say, oh, wait, who is responsible for all this?
Guest:Oh, it's me and all my relatives.
Guest:Maybe I don't believe in this.
Guest:That didn't stop you?
Marc:Well, no, because there was the Freemason thing and then there was the sort of, you know, the United States government, CIA, all that shit.
Marc:But the ones, the blood libel stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the sort of Zog, Zionist Occupy government stuff.
Marc:I mean, that's sort of, I think, a bill.
Marc:I did a whole episode with a conspiracy theorist, a theorist historian, basically.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So when I was in it, it wasn't you related.
Marc:It was more Freemasonry in the government.
Guest:I didn't realize.
Guest:that was a newer development.
Marc:It's not, I mean, it's always sort of there, but now with QAnon and with Soros and with, you know, now that they can put people on it.
Marc:But those are just, Soros is just Rothschild.
Guest:I mean, it's like, it's newer, but it's the old shit coming back.
Marc:But I wasn't, yeah, the Rothschilds were kind of adjacent to the Freemasons, but I, I mean, that's what I'm saying.
Marc:It's all there, you know.
Marc:But but when I was into it, it was more about, you know, this idea that the truth about, you know, government and corporations and all this other shit was was was where it stopped for me.
Marc:I didn't get I didn't you know, I didn't know what I understood the Rothschilds were a medieval banking family.
Marc:And the reason that Jews were bankers was because the Christians weren't allowed to lend money.
Marc:And I knew all that.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Marc:But now it's just a lot of people are just sort of taking information.
Marc:It all falls into that woke thing.
Marc:Like even people who should be proud of being woke are nervous about being woke.
Marc:And the Jews, anything that right-wing people disagree with or want to stereotype falls under the woke umbrella.
Right.
Guest:I mean, dude, I don't even—that word has been—these words get twisted around, and you don't even know what they mean anymore.
Guest:And they get so co-opted, and they become a left thing, and they become the right thing, and they go back and forth.
Guest:And I don't even know what you even mean when you're saying that.
Marc:No, of course.
Marc:They don't either.
Marc:It's just a new objectifier.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, it strips people of their point of view, their identity.
Marc:But it's a pretty—
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:There's another conspiracy theory.
Guest:I can't remember the words they use for it.
Guest:It's this theory that actually ends up being about Jews, and people don't even realize.
Guest:Sometimes people are into these conspiracy theories that are Jews.
Guest:Globalists, that's what it is.
Guest:Globalists means Jews.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:And people don't realize that.
Guest:In fact, I told a joke about this conspiracy theory thing, and a guy reached out to me.
Guest:He's like, I didn't know globalists meant Jews.
Guest:And I just think it's a weird way to...
Marc:Well, that's because the left uses it, too, in terms of— Globalist?
Marc:Well, yeah, because, like, this sort of global economic model is, you know, was a big thing on the left.
Marc:That's why everything's getting confused, and the right's co-opting left language.
Marc:But globalization— Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:was not seen as a good thing because it leveled the wage field and it sort of encourages slavery on a global scope.
Guest:And that's like neoliberal, which is the opposite of liberal, which is all very confusing, right?
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the neoliberals and the neoconservatives were all about globalization.
Marc:But the opposite of globalization is sort of unionized work in the country we live in that employs people within the country at a reasonable living wage with safety nets and protections.
Marc:And that falls into the world of socialism, which is part of the lefty kind of point of view.
Marc:So globalization was a threat to the world.
Marc:idealism of socialists, but also in the right-wing world, it was just a way to say, like, where they, you know, the Chinese are taking our jobs, the Mexicans are taking our jobs, the Indians are taking our jobs, everything, nothing's made here anymore.
Marc:Because, like, if everybody was working, you know, towards, you know, fair employment, they'd be pro-union.
Marc:And somehow or another, the right-wing propaganda has got working-class white people thinking unions are demonic.
Marc:And it's all it's all mindfuck.
Guest:Well, they're really into the woods.
Guest:Yeah, but they're very good.
Guest:They're just like the right is it's weird.
Guest:All the writers are liberal, but the right has the best slogans.
Guest:They really write things.
Guest:I mean, like pro-life.
Guest:What are you against life?
Guest:I mean, that's a that's that's really well written.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Well, they've got people chipping away at it angrily round the clock.
Marc:Whether they're fucking radicalized gamers or fucking radicalized Christians or just right wing think tanks, they're doing it all day long.
Marc:The left doesn't really exist.
Marc:And centrist Democrats and liberals, we don't have that type of organization because we're kind of primarily want to live our lives.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And we've become able to embrace tolerance, which is necessary for democracy, but has now been taken out of the equation.
Marc:We're in a lesser position in the great war of words and charisma.
Guest:But honestly, that's because I know you're saying it and you think the anti-woke thing is just the right thing.
Guest:But I think some people want to push back against the overreach of that kind of stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:where it kind of became a boy who cries wolf thing with all the outrage all the time.
Marc:Yeah, but I find that the place that that really happens most is on college campuses.
Marc:And eventually, I think that and on social media platforms.
Marc:But I think it will find its own level.
Marc:We don't know what these kids who are triggered by everything and, you know, worried about, you know, how they want to represent themselves sexually or pronoun wise or everything else.
Marc:It feels to me that eventually that will settle down.
Marc:You know, obviously...
Marc:You know, destroying someone's life over false accusations or over a tweet that that has much as much to do with clickbait culture as it does anything else with the failure of journalism.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So there's a lot of things going on, but I don't it still seems to me that you can say whatever you want.
Guest:Pretty much.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes, I do.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I do see what you're saying.
Guest:It's a false.
Guest:It's a false paper tiger or whatever.
Guest:You know, it's a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's not really like a thing as much as they're saying it is.
Guest:But I do think I it's not totally one.
Guest:It does exist.
Marc:But the guys who fall through the cracks are guys like me and you.
Marc:Is that when you have tribalized anti-woe comedy?
Marc:I was at the comedy store and I walked down there.
Marc:There was one person in each room doing their trans jokes.
Marc:And I'm like, is this even necessary?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So the people that are just kind of like slightly filthy, progressive or liberal people, you know, that our comedy doesn't have a tribe anymore.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That's what I'm saying.
Guest:This is what I'm concerned about.
Guest:This is exactly what I'm concerned about.
Marc:It's a reasonable concern.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:But the special is good.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Thanks for watching it.
Marc:Yeah, and it's good to see you.
Marc:Good to see you, too.
Marc:And I think we did a nice chunk of time here.
Marc:Should we have a couple of Jews speculating about global politics for 15 minutes?
Marc:Why not?
Guest:Why not?
Guest:Oh, now we can't speculate?
Guest:We can only control it?
Guest:Ah, that's it.
Marc:We're not even doing our job.
Marc:Good talking to you.
Guest:Thanks for having me, man.
Marc:Okay, there you go.
Marc:Again, Present Tense, the new special, premieres tonight, October 19th, on Louie's YouTube channel.
Marc:Go subscribe.
Marc:Louie Katz Comedy.
Marc:All right, so Stanhope, a lot of you know Stanhope.
Marc:Stanhope is a one-of-a-kind rogue of sorts, a self-made man, an institution, a legend.
Marc:He's a guy that we've kind of run in the same circles for decades, but always a unique take on things.
Marc:He's definitely unto himself, a singular comedian, and it's always good to hang out with him.
Marc:He's got this new movie.
Marc:He's actually acting in it.
Marc:It's called Road Dog.
Marc:It's available right now to rent or own on all cable, satellite and digital platforms.
Marc:It's about a stand up comic who is almost exactly like Doug Stanhope.
Marc:Or what Doug Stanhope kind of is.
Marc:Or familiar enough.
Marc:A Doug Stanhope-ish character.
Marc:Well, anyway, this is me talking to Stanhope.
Marc:Do you still smoke?
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:Not since February 15th.
Marc:That's pretty good.
Marc:I haven't smoked for years, but now I'm back on these fucking nicotines.
Marc:Lozenges.
Marc:They're very good.
Marc:Yeah, I didn't know you stopped.
Marc:Stopped the nicotine?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I did, for a few years.
Marc:And then some motherfucker said, come on, man, let's just have a good cigar in Canada.
Marc:I know exactly the motherfucker.
Yeah.
Marc:It was a Santino.
Marc:It was a Santino-shaped motherfucker.
Marc:And I knew it would just string me out immediately.
Marc:And I'm like, yeah, all right.
Guest:I swear, I went out to Austin, and every comic has started smoking.
Guest:And Skankfest, too.
Guest:Yeah, like, every comic smoked.
Guest:It felt like I was the last smoker.
Guest:Like, me and Dave Attell were the only two that are still going outside and standing in front of a fucking office building.
Guest:And now every comic smokes.
Guest:Big Jay Oakerson was smoking.
Marc:Like, fucking everyone smokes.
Marc:I feel like he smoked.
Marc:I feel like he always smoked.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A J. Maybe it's part of the whole anti-woke persona.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You got to start smoking cigarettes in your 30s like a fucking moron.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I watched your special this morning and it made my whole day.
Guest:Oh, thanks, man.
Guest:I was laughing.
Guest:My wife, Bingo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Actually, she started it at one point months ago and said, hey, I started Marc Maron.
Guest:And she never watches stand-up comedy.
Guest:She goes, it's actually really good.
Guest:And I go, well, she goes, I stopped it because I wanted to watch it together.
Guest:And I go, yeah, when I'm in the mood to watch stand-up, which is fucking never.
Guest:I'm like, well, I'm going on the podcast.
Guest:I'll watch it this morning.
Guest:And I just fucking, from the beginning, was fucking, yeah, well, well done.
Guest:Oh, thanks, man.
Guest:And the dark shit about Lynn was fucking crushing.
Guest:Oh, thanks, buddy.
Marc:Really good.
Marc:Well, that means a lot to me, man.
Guest:Selfie?
Guest:No.
Guest:When they were collecting my mother's body, I tried to make a discreet selfie with them in the background carrying her body out.
Marc:Did you do it?
Marc:It's all blurry, yeah.
Marc:It didn't happen.
Marc:I couldn't do it.
Marc:That was after the fact.
Marc:When you're in the middle of that stuff, you're not really thinking hilariously.
Guest:Yeah, I was more worried because there was legal issues because I was kind of an assisted suicide.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm like, all right, I don't want to camp it up by taking an obvious... You don't want to seem too insensitive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I appreciate you saying that.
Marc:I was talking to Louis Katz yesterday.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:He's great, you know, and he's got that new special, but we were talking about comedy, and he was talking about me and you, and then I...
Marc:You know, I watched a movie, you know, and the movie's called Road Dog.
Marc:And first of all, who's that kid that wrote that book?
Marc:Oh, yeah, Sam Talent.
Marc:Sam Talent.
Marc:His movie's dead.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, he was very, very upset when I told him.
Guest:I think I sent him the script, too.
Guest:And he's like, ah, fuck.
Marc:Well, he, you know, I talked to him because I love that book, and I know you liked it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:It's our life, and it's very specific, and it's very hard to nail that thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, the generation of comics that you and I come from, which is the post-explosion comics, that, you know, it's very specific.
Marc:And I thought he, in that book, nailed it very well.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Especially for a guy that young.
Marc:Well, yeah, but he's hanging around there.
Marc:All you need is one Rick Kearns.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Great reference.
Marc:To get that guy, you just got to spend a weekend with Rick Kearns.
Guest:Hey, where can we, you know where we can get an eight ball?
Guest:First of all, that book we're talking about is called Running the Light.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's one of the best books I've ever read.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Certainly the best about stand-up.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:When you read it, who were you, I was picturing Ron White the whole time.
Marc:I got Ron, but you know, it's like, well, this is what I want to talk to you about, because in the...
Marc:In the movie, you play some version of that guy, but it's pretty close to you-ish.
Marc:And the thing that really struck me outside of the – because when we got into the game, even the generation before us, there were literally guys who were trying to not pay their taxes.
Marc:They were just ahead of the law.
Marc:I mean, the guy who I knew well and spent time with was Bastille.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Frankie.
Marc:I only knew the legend of... Yeah.
Marc:So I was one of those guys that he tried to sort of get me to think I was learning something, but really just to drive him places.
Marc:But he was the guy that I would go... The Bastille story is long, but he was that guy.
Marc:He was a dope fiend.
Marc:So I had him in my mind.
Marc:I had Kearns in my mind.
Marc:But I didn't know...
Marc:How many guys, like the guy in that book?
Guest:Wait, is Frankie Bastille, does he have just a tiny part in Mr. Saturday Night where he's on TV and Billy Crystal's character is going, whoa, there's kids today.
Guest:Was he a long, I can't imagine that was him.
Marc:Long curly hair guy?
Marc:No.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Lord Caret, the guy who followed him around for a while.
Marc:You know, that Bastille legend was, I was in Boston coming up at the beginning in the late 80s, and he moved there because he was literally running from, you know, child payments in the IRS.
Marc:And he's famously, he wouldn't want his name in the paper or on marquees.
Yeah.
Marc:Because he didn't want anyone to know where he was.
Marc:And I think he eventually got busted on the child support stuff because he did a radio show.
Marc:And somebody heard him and told the woman.
Guest:I had served once in a green room.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For what?
Guest:I was libel or something.
Guest:It was a long time ago.
Guest:I just talked shit about someone on my website and said he's probably in the NABLA Hall of Fame or something like that.
Guest:Oh, they can sue you for that.
Guest:Yeah, and he did.
Guest:And it had been many years since, but I got the man show.
Guest:So I was like, oh, this guy's got money now.
Guest:And it got thrown out, but it still cost me like 10 grand in legal fees to get it thrown out.
Guest:I don't know what kind of fucking people do that.
Guest:Anyway, the point is, yeah, I know the feeling of wishing you could do comedy anonymously.
Marc:But that was the guy I thought of.
Marc:But what I was thinking, though, is that the whole, well, granted, the guy, did you quit drinking too?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, no.
Guest:Not crazy.
No.
Marc:I couldn't quite get it straight.
Marc:I knew you quit something.
Marc:And then I thought, Doug quit drinking?
Marc:It would be exactly like that movie.
Marc:You would get on stage lost.
Marc:Like a child.
Guest:Yeah, I would have that fear of...
Guest:Yeah, going on stage.
Guest:But then again, the point in my brain is I have to write everything.
Guest:There's no riffing.
Guest:I'm not going to go up and do crowd work.
Marc:Was that always?
Guest:If I take two weeks off, I have to go back and listen to the last set I did just to make sure I hit all the beats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Was that always?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I cared less earlier, so I would go up and fuck off.
Guest:It was a great feeling when you came off stage after an hour and go, I almost used no material on that show.
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Guest:It'll never happen again, and it was useless.
Guest:I'm so proud of myself.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Now I feel like I have to, you know, I have to, you know, people pay a lot of money.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got to be prepared.
Marc:Have a show.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm the same way.
Marc:I got more like that.
Marc:But I still don't write a lot down.
Marc:I outline stuff.
Marc:A lot of things get lost.
Marc:I haven't done, you know, I've been trying to work out this new hour in clubs.
Marc:And then I took this week off.
Marc:And now I feel I'm going out next week.
Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck?
Marc:What was it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I got to go look at the outline and make sure I get shit in.
Marc:But so much gets lost.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I'm not writing out verbatim the entire set.
Guest:Okay, this goes into that.
Guest:Because if I forget to do that segue, then this entire chunk is a lot.
Guest:I'm like you.
Guest:I don't have fucking jokes.
Guest:I have...
Guest:Yeah, you have to keep when they become jokes, the more you repeat them.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It was so funny.
Guest:It's very you're one of those people.
Guest:It's terrifying to watch that.
Guest:Like, oh, please, though.
Guest:There's a few times in the bleak special bleak to dark where you're going to do one of my bits.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:Well, I texted you.
Marc:You never got back to me.
Marc:It's so funny because if I come up with a bit, like I'll text you in a tell.
Marc:It was, hey, man, it's Marin.
Marc:Just wrote a bit and did it a few times where I referred to an abortion clinic as an angel factory, which seems like something only a handful of us could come up with.
Marc:Have you heard that or done that?
Marc:Hope not.
Marc:It's a fun one to say.
Guest:That was exactly the bit that I'm going, oh, please don't go down the road I went down.
Guest:I just filmed a special in May and I still haven't gotten around to getting it fucking edited.
Guest:And it didn't go that way.
Guest:But Angel Factory was fucking beautiful.
Marc:But it was one of those ones I came up with on stage and I'm like, oh my God, I have to somehow own this in the ether.
Marc:But the funny thing is, I think it was always this way.
Marc:There was not a lot of us who would do that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, like, Telly used to call me up, and we're totally different types of comics, but I'd get these weird calls like, hey, it's Dave, do you do anything about jerking off in the Bible?
Guest:Bad girls on a pogo stick.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, it's good.
Guest:I could have sworn it was you.
Marc:But I knew that any of the long form guys, but, but there's no one that has the balls to do this shit anymore.
Marc:I mean, I don't know.
Guest:I don't, I don't really see comics anymore.
Guest:And I, I, I'm always loathe to watch a special.
Guest:Like now I'm not, I don't have any dates on the books and I don't plan on it for a while.
Guest:So I will go out and watch some people's specials.
Marc:But if you go to a festival, you see it.
Guest:Yeah, but I don't really watch the comedy.
Guest:I have fun at festivals and hang out.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I'm more like the green room guy.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:Hey, there's an old timer in the green room.
Marc:You want to go ask him questions?
Guest:I just want to say hi to comics because I never see them.
Marc:Yeah, well, I probably see them more.
Marc:But I'll watch guys.
Marc:There's some guys I like watching.
Marc:I tend to like goofier guys to get a kick out of them.
Marc:Like, I watched Bargetzi's special twice.
Guest:I watched during quarantine.
Marc:I watched a lot.
Marc:The other one?
Guest:Nate was very good.
Marc:He's got a pace and a way of talking that's pretty unique.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's all clean, and it drives me nuts.
Guest:Eddie Pepitone, I just saw him as a person.
Guest:Hi, Doug!
Guest:That's fucking great, Eddie Pepitone.
Guest:Yeah, I saw him at the last Gank Festival I went to in Houston a couple years ago.
Guest:And just, you're my new favorite.
Marc:Oh, yeah, he's great.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:Because he's yelling constantly, but he's so sweet.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, he can't yell away his sweetness.
Yeah.
Marc:But he's doing good.
Marc:But the question I was wondering about... He's still funny on Twitter.
Marc:Is he?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:There's like two people left that can actually go on Twitter.
Guest:I can't read it anymore.
Marc:I don't understand it anymore.
Marc:You tweet and no one gets them, it seems.
Marc:I don't understand what's happening.
Guest:That's when I remember MySpace, everyone had kind of fled and I was the last guy going...
Marc:These used to get more responses.
Marc:And they're gone.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:I'm old.
Marc:How old are you?
Marc:56.
Marc:I just turned 60.
Guest:Just turned fucking 60.
Guest:I said it like we were an old couple when you were doing the bit about it.
Guest:You go, I don't really feel old.
Guest:And I go, because we don't have kids.
Guest:And then you said it as I was saying it.
Marc:It's true.
Marc:We have nothing to judge our decay against.
Marc:But...
Marc:The character in the movie was somebody very familiar to me.
Marc:Did you do a lot of that kind of road work?
Marc:Yeah, I did enough.
Marc:The difference in my making my bones was that in Boston—
Marc:The market where I started getting paid to do stand-up was a one-nighter market.
Marc:So those were two-man shows.
Marc:So you would go out with a headliner, and the opener had to do a half hour.
Marc:New England was basically like triple gigs that you could go home afterwards.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:But sometimes it would take three hours to get home.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it was just like there was a half-hour guy and then a 45-minute guy, and then you drive.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So I started, in terms of time, with the time of a feature.
Marc:So by the time I left Boston, I could feature pretty strong, and I was headlining pretty shortly after.
Marc:But I never understood the road.
Marc:I didn't understand that there was networking involved, and you had to treat club owners with a certain amount of respect, and people had to want to see you again.
Marc:I didn't understand that.
Marc:any of that i was just sort of like i'm here what the fuck are we doing and the tone just never never locked in so you were always like that yeah you didn't grow into the mark maron that we know and are afraid of that guy's a little he's tempered it was so funny i was on stage the other night you know and i feel like i've gotten pretty open you know because of that last special you know and i'm and i'm doing these things i'm working on there's some guy yammering like right up front like answering me like oh yeah yeah i'm like dude are you gonna shut the fuck up
Marc:And the audience stunk.
Marc:They were just an original room audience.
Marc:It was Tuesday night.
Marc:And they weren't hostile.
Marc:They were just hearing everything as somebody saying serious things.
Marc:You know where they're just sort of like, they're not landing as jokes.
Marc:And this guy's talking.
Marc:And I go, what the fuck is your problem?
Marc:And I said, you know, what kind of miserable fucking relationship did you have with your father that you need this much negative attention?
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:I've been doing this for fucking 40 years.
Marc:You're the same guy.
Marc:I've seen you a million times.
Marc:Different hats, same asshole, you know.
Marc:And I just, I lost it, right?
Marc:And then I have this moment where I'm like, oh, wow, you just saw the real Mark.
Marc:Okay.
Okay.
Marc:But I don't use that guy anymore, Doug.
Marc:That guy, he's on hiatus for the most part.
Guest:That's good.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:But there was a brief time where I was trying to, you know, do jokes.
Marc:And, like, there's those 1989 evening at the Improvs where I seem pretty together.
Marc:But I was still – I did a joke in 89 on Caroline's Comedy Hour about the three kings showing up in an abortion clinic dumpster.
Marc:So I always had the same –
Marc:What's gone wrong?
Marc:But I had the same temperament.
Marc:But but that was where that was the late 80s.
Marc:So this is what I was trying to ask you is that that idea of selling out and the idea of integrity in terms of how you do the thing doesn't seem to exist anymore.
Marc:And I'm not even sure where we got it because I had it for years.
Marc:And I knew guys that had it, but when I think back on it, there weren't that many people that had that.
Marc:And I guess we got it from Bill, right?
Marc:I mean, where did we get that?
Guest:I really had no sense of selling out or anything.
Guest:When I started, I didn't know anything about L.A.
Guest:or coasts.
Guest:I started in Vegas, which was a...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you had any idea that you can't start in Vegas.
Guest:But I didn't because I lived there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I just started doing triple gigs.
Guest:So I was driving all over fucking from Colorado to Montana to Oregon, just all these shithole towns.
Guest:And that's pretty much all I knew for the first few years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I didn't really have any barometer of what hackneyed was.
Marc:So you didn't have that sort of idea?
Marc:Because when I was hanging out with Frankie and he was telling me the ways of the road and stuff, there was Bodak's.
Marc:There was, you know, the idea of a boat act.
Marc:Oh, oh.
Marc:You know, there was a hat.
Marc:Cruise ship act.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:And then he used to do this thing about, like, you know, if you're going to juggle, you've got to juggle something big, something, you know, dangerous, and then something edible.
Marc:That's, you know, it's got to...
Marc:You got to eat the apple.
Marc:He had this structure of things, but I sort of abided by it, and maybe a lot of it came out of insecurity.
Marc:So that stuff was all scripted.
Marc:You never had that sense of like eventually that these guys are garbage comedy.
Marc:We're doing the real stuff.
Guest:I don't really know when that –
Guest:I'm sure, like, I remember when I got comparisons to Bill Hicks, and I was always worried.
Marc:It was never good.
Marc:It was never good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because he was like, the people that knew him at that time and loved him, he was this singular thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:that you couldn't even cross.
Guest:You don't see that idolatry anymore, that the hicks of fans that were just a hardcore, you know, if you're anything like Bill, you're trying to be Bill.
Guest:If you're saying anything important, there's a lot of people that, oh, you're trying to be socially relevant?
Guest:That's hicks.
Guest:Hicks did that.
Guest:Oh, wait, we should stop social relevance?
Marc:Right.
Marc:It was insane.
Marc:You know, I remember I had to defend wearing black jeans.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To some fucking assholes.
Marc:I think I had a black jeans and a black shirt on.
Marc:And I don't even remember seeing him, you know, do much when the comparison started.
Guest:Just a quick side note.
Guest:Thank God you're still fucking audio only.
Guest:I didn't feel undue pressure to put on one of my stupid suits.
Guest:Oh, thank God.
Guest:I wasn't in the fucking mood for a stupid suit.
Marc:No.
Marc:Well, you made that for yourself.
Guest:I still enjoy it, but not today.
Guest:Today, it's fucking hot out.
Guest:It's daytime.
Guest:I just feel dumb.
Guest:Like in front of you, I feel like, all right, fucking Marin, let it go.
Marc:I don't need to come with the circus and the suits.
Marc:But in the movie in Road Dogg, there's a line in there where, you know, that one of the reasons you blew the letterman, your character, was because he asked you to wear a suit.
Marc:And then I wondered, is your suit now an over-the-top play on that?
Marc:You know, being pissed off about having to wear suits at some other time?
Marc:So now you wear these vintage clown suits that you find places.
Guest:It's my only hobby on the road.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just go buy one?
Guest:Some people go to museums and shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I want to see Wrigley Field.
Guest:I go to thrift stores and try to find, get lucky on some really fucking goofy vintage jackets and ties.
Marc:So back in the day, though, you weren't... Because I was sort of more of a dick than you, I think.
Marc:But there was this thing to have integrity.
Marc:And I don't... Because most people...
Marc:You know, don't.
Marc:And I know that was – because I know Frankie had it.
Marc:I don't think Hicks spoke to it.
Marc:But there was definitely a few of us that were like – Integrity was just as far as material goes?
Marc:Material, stand-up, you know, purpose, art of the fucking thing, what real stand-up was.
Guest:But that doesn't –
Guest:Self-sabotage was always there with me.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:For whatever integrity I had, I still didn't have any compunction with throwing a show in the toilet.
Guest:If I wasn't in the mood or that guy, the asshole with the fucking hat, talking back, I'd walk a fucking room in a second.
Guest:Especially when people were coming to see comedy and not you.
Guest:Doug Stanhope.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you got in here on a fucking free pass, fuck you and your bachelorette party.
Guest:I want your night to suck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You worked fucking five days and this is your Friday and you put so little effort into the market payoff that you get for, you know, 50 hours of work.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're just going to go out on a coupon.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:I stopped doing before I even was able to pull people.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:I stopped doing paper rooms.
Marc:I couldn't handle it.
Marc:You know, it took me fucking years to realize I'm not everybody's comedy.
Marc:I still hate when I find out someone doesn't like me.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I don't understand.
Marc:I'm doing comedy for everyone.
Marc:everyone it's so relatable why what are you missing yeah you don't i mean you don't have to i don't have to be your favorite but you should like me yeah you should at least know what you know respect what i'm doing but i had a realization i was in vegas i did that you ever do that little room that the wise guys uh you know keith stubbs got no i haven't he's got a room in the arts district seats like 220 and when
Marc:And I'm working out hours I go.
Marc:And I was talking about like the Bellagio or these casino rooms.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm not that guy.
Marc:This is where I belong.
Marc:And I said, even my fans, if they were walking around the Bellagio, you know, on a weekend in Vegas and they saw my poster, they'd be like, oh, Maren's here.
Marc:Like, I don't know if I'm in the mood.
Marc:You know, we're having a good time.
Marc:We can see him when he comes to our town.
Guest:It's a little heavy for Vegas.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Well, that movie, this movie I'm in, they showed it at Skank Fest.
Guest:And then I was tripping and I'm like, I had to do Q&A after it.
Guest:And I'm like, fuck, I'm on mushrooms.
Guest:And I just realized what a downer this is.
Guest:This festival is the most fun in the world.
Guest:And people are just drowning for an hour and 45 minutes and sad.
Guest:But did they like it?
Guest:They liked it.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:What are they going to tell you?
Guest:What were the questions?
Guest:Are you too tripped out to even?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It was a very brief Q&A because they had to turn the room over, and I was just making fun of it because I was high as shit.
Marc:How did this movie come about?
Marc:This guy's a real guy, but he shot a little movie.
Guest:The guy directed it.
Marc:Two writers are former comics of that era.
Marc:But it wasn't the guy from Meet the Parents?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Greg Leanna, the director, he wrote the original Meet the Parents and directed it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, yeah, they got a hold of me because I fit the suit, as they say.
Guest:He was a comic, that guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I didn't know that.
Guest:Yeah, both him and Tony Boswell, the producer, co-writer.
Guest:Comics were from where, Chicago?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Huh.
Marc:And you knew them?
Guest:That's why there's so many Chicago comics in the picture.
Guest:You knew them as comics?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I didn't know them as comics.
Guest:I guess they had seen me on Louie.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's pretty much a continuation of that part.
Guest:That guy's already ready.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's made for it.
Guest:Yeah, I've done this part.
Guest:But how'd you feel about it?
Marc:It's like Rocky II.
Marc:I'm in.
Marc:But you didn't put any effort into changing your body.
Guest:No.
Marc:You didn't get ripped for this one.
Guest:The only thing I had a problem with is they kept making me... I think wardrobe had to...
Guest:Like censors.
Guest:They go, okay, we have to change some shit or we deny our reason for being here.
Guest:So wardrobe made me change my fucking shirt every day.
Guest:Yeah, every day for every day.
Guest:Yeah, real me wouldn't do that.
Guest:I'd wear the same shit for two weeks.
Guest:That's about how long this movie is covered.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, I thought the movie, like, because it's, you know, we're going to be the ones that, you know, judge it.
Marc:Comics.
Marc:You know, it's got a sweet enough ending in a way.
Marc:It's still pretty dark.
Marc:But I was, anytime I see it, the authenticity of how that life is.
Marc:And I think they did all right with it.
Guest:Yeah, it's hard because it is a period piece.
Guest:That would be a late 90s era movie.
Guest:early 2000s.
Guest:I guess that is, because they don't really... Because no one's trying to get on the Tonight Show anymore.
Guest:Yeah, everything's internet-related, and they ignore all that, but all the cars are current-day cars, so... They didn't really fucking care.
Marc:Well, they didn't really have the budget to make everything 1998...
Marc:Right.
Marc:But, you know, that didn't even bother me so much, you know, because I don't I think I don't really understand what the fuck is happening in comedy now.
Marc:Yeah, I have no I just know that there's a lot of people taking up time on stage and making money doing it that don't even have 20 minutes.
Marc:I know that.
Guest:I know that you're still doing audio.
Guest:Do you get shit for that?
Guest:I want to go back to my podcast just being audio.
Guest:I don't want my face in it.
Marc:Me and my producer, Brendan, who's a radio genius and a bonafide kind of brilliant guy, was never what we set out to do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like he's a radio producer and we do, you know, we edit, we craft shows, we put together audio content.
Marc:It was never the idea just to sit and it would drive him nuts to have, you know, just a couple of guys sitting around for an hour and a half with no ability to cut that chunk out where they're just farting, you know.
Marc:It's just not what we do.
Guest:Yeah, when I ask people, because I have no idea what the fuck's going on in the industry far more than you don't know what's going on, because you at least live in it.
Guest:Yeah, kind of.
Guest:Yeah, what's left of it, yeah.
Guest:I can't even go to see comedy where I live.
Marc:I would have to drive four hours to see... In Big... Where is it?
Marc:Bigsby?
Marc:Bisby, yeah.
Marc:Bisby?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How's it going out there?
Marc:You're the mayor?
Guest:No, no, I...
Guest:I'll get... Yeah, it's a long story.
Guest:I had a small house fire that has been taking a year for my... Next week, supposedly, I'm getting my house back.
Guest:Where are you even living?
Guest:My wife has a house down the street.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I summed time with her, and the insurance paid for a hotel up in Tucson for almost a year.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:So that was a nice getaway by the airport so I could ditch in and out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But not knowing what you're doing or how the business is working, every time I ask advice, how do you monetize?
Guest:And Andy Letterman would say, oh, we can't say swear words on our YouTube channel.
Guest:We have to bleep all this out.
Guest:I'm like, what?
Guest:YouTube, you can't swear?
Guest:Not if you want to be monetized.
Guest:Every time I ask advice, I don't want to do it.
Guest:I'm glad I asked.
Marc:Also, to keep up with that shit.
Marc:These guys, they're working all the time.
Marc:The content pushers, you've got to stay in it.
Marc:It's fucking nuts.
Marc:We just do this thing.
Marc:We do our thing twice a week.
Marc:I do the stand-up.
Marc:Acting sometimes.
Marc:I'm out on the road a lot.
Marc:I'm doing more stand-up than I ever have in my life.
Marc:I think I'm better at it than I have been.
Marc:It's kind of fun.
Marc:I have no dread.
Guest:That's unique.
Guest:I have to...
Guest:focus on that all right do less yeah just just hone hone what you're doing more yeah and don't try to learn new things because i i don't want to work more in my life that's right it's the whole point of getting into this business was sloth yeah yeah what do you do for a living i walk around with a pen yeah
Guest:That's it.
Marc:I sleep in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I can't sleep in anymore.
Marc:You can still sleep in?
Marc:No.
Marc:It's fucking ridiculous.
Marc:Even with sleep aid.
Marc:Can't do it?
Marc:No.
Marc:I can get to sleep, but I can't.
Marc:I wake up.
Guest:I just wake up.
Guest:Yeah, I wake up early and...
Guest:And then there you are.
Guest:I do like when I'm home waking up early and getting shit done before it gets too hot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm never bored.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm just never fucking bored.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I can't imagine what people with regular lives are like.
Guest:Quarantine developed the most...
Guest:harmful addiction I've ever had, which is comfort.
Guest:I was never bored.
Guest:I always had a homeowner's project.
Marc:Yeah, always.
Marc:When you have a house, it never ends.
Marc:But did you have that moment where you're like, when COVID hit, I had this moment where I'm like, I don't miss comedy at all.
Marc:And I'm like, maybe I'm all better.
Yeah.
Marc:That was my thought.
Marc:I must be fixed.
Guest:I don't need to do it.
Guest:I don't think this is agoraphobia as much as it's agoraphilia.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is a fetish.
Marc:It's never leaving my house.
Marc:It's nice.
Marc:Because you got some land, right?
Marc:You can walk around.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A yard anyway.
Marc:I got four lots.
Marc:Oh, that's a lot.
Marc:But as soon as comics started doing it, I'm like, fuck.
Guest:I guess we're back at it.
Guest:Yeah, that's why I'm taking a year off.
Guest:I was really losing my mind having to live out of a hotel and then go on the road and stay in other hotels.
Guest:And then where's my shit?
Guest:Did I leave that at the other house?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Is that in a hotel?
Guest:How are your fans these days?
Marc:They're aging, I think.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, are they still expecting... Do you feel... Because I remember we talked about it before, that there was a period there where, you know, the amount they wanted you to drink was... Oh, yeah.
Marc:Those are...
Guest:Faded away.
Guest:I don't have the rowdies anymore.
Guest:Occasionally, I guess.
Guest:One or two.
Marc:But you don't feel the pressure to be this, you know, this destructo all the time?
Marc:No, I'm so old.
Guest:I go out the back.
Guest:I Hedberg shows now, like just directly out the back door.
Guest:I'll be right back.
Marc:It was so funny working with Hedberg because you'd be like, are we going to hang out?
Marc:And then like, where is he?
Marc:He's not at the hotel.
Marc:I don't know where he is.
Guest:I remember going to St.
Guest:Cloud, Minnesota, and we did a show.
Guest:And then we went to a Denny's kind of all-night restaurant.
Guest:And I called this girl.
Guest:I knew a girl.
Guest:And I called her on the pay phone.
Guest:And then I went in to find...
Guest:and i assumed he's in the bathroom i wait for like half an hour he must he went out the back fucking door yeah just gone next day i go what happened to you we were going to eat and he he said yeah i saw you calling a girl and i don't want to be a third wheel
Marc:I remember this Hedberg moment where I was working.
Marc:Do you remember Indianapolis when Chicken Patty had those places?
Marc:They had the comedy.
Marc:They had the one in Broad Ripple, and then they had the one in downtown, and then they owned a bar.
Marc:And, you know, after the show downtown, we all went to the bar and the phone rings on the wall.
Marc:And the bartender answers it and goes, it's for you.
Marc:And I go, hello.
Marc:He goes, hey, it's Mitch.
Marc:I'm like, what?
Marc:He's like, I know how Indianapolis works.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was pretty funny.
Marc:But I think that was his region, you know, that was where he came up, all those states.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But so how did you, so they just asked you to do this part?
Guest:Yeah, get an email, and I said, absolutely no way.
Guest:Hannigan called me.
Guest:You've got an offer to do a movie.
Guest:Five weeks in Chicago in February.
Guest:Who would want to do that?
Marc:There was real snow.
Guest:Yeah, but then I read it, and I go, okay, I've already done this part.
Marc:But I think there was probably a little more acting involved than the Louis part, wasn't there?
Marc:Yeah, probably, because there was... The kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You had to be a dad.
Guest:Yeah, it's just, it's so fucking easy to just, all I have to do is memorize this page.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And make some choices.
Guest:Yeah, I don't have to memorize the whole script because you're going to be sitting there for like eight hours waiting for them to get all the shit together.
Guest:You're going to have nothing to do but memorize your next page.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but there were a couple of real kind of emotional moments that I thought you handled pretty well.
Marc:Because it's hard for us to access the proper emotion to be present.
Guest:It was difficult because I had to do it sober, unlike my set.
Guest:But they asked you to do that?
Guest:No, I just know you can't do 12 hours of being the same.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can't be the exact same kind of drunk for 12 hours.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:You're going to peak and valley, and those shots aren't going to line up.
Guest:You're going to be tired.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, if you're doing this scene, okay, we're going to do your lines, and then we're going to break down the cameras, and then we're going to shoot them all from the other angle after lunch.
Guest:Well, if you're drinking for those four hours— Can't maintain it.
Guest:Yeah, the—
Guest:Yeah, unless you— You're going to be doing the same scene, but half of the time you got Bell's palsy on your face.
Marc:Yeah, or you got to ask for blow.
Marc:Someone's got to bring the blow.
Marc:When you hear these stories about these big actors that were just jammed out of their fucking brains doing these, it must have required so much blow.
Marc:Because if you're waiting for four hours, you're going to blow through your blow pretty quick.
Marc:They must have fucking suitcases full of it, like Mel Gibson and whoever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I don't think I, because I get, I mean, I'm stuttery right now, but cocaine, and then I can't keep a train of thought.
Guest:Even on stage where I would need cocaine, those three show Saturdays in Davie, Florida, and blow is everywhere.
Guest:I've been drinking through two shows.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:All right, now I need cocaine for that third show.
Guest:And it seems like I'm blazing.
Guest:I'm fucking Robin Williams.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And every thought.
Guest:You're nailing it.
Guest:Every synapse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you listen back to the tape and you go, I didn't finish one sentence.
Marc:Yeah, and people were just worried about you the whole time.
Yeah.
Marc:There was concern in the room.
Marc:I remember like doing the blow and then actually being up all night and then having to fill that fucking day before the next set of shows and literally not sleeping.
Marc:It was fucking crazy.
Marc:It was like doing comedy on another planet.
Guest:I never really had the constitution.
Guest:I was always the guy that would pass out first.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was never... I would do medicinal blow, but I was never a guy that was looking for it afterwards.
Guest:I was surprised there was no blow in the movie.
Marc:I think it's probably better off.
Guest:I thought of that afterwards.
Marc:I'm like, yeah, there's no drug use in there.
Marc:That scene with the dad was pretty good.
Marc:I think that was the most impactful...
Marc:moment in the movie in terms of the acting because you didn't say anything.
Marc:When you were alone in the hotel room with the father who was, you know, on the machine and incapacitated entirely and you were just looking at him, I thought that was very effective.
Marc:I guess they call those choices.
Marc:Well, what were you doing?
Marc:What were you thinking?
Marc:Was there a mixture of anger and...
Guest:I was thinking about when Bingo was in a coma.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And having to watch her on tubes and not knowing if she's going to make it or not.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And also with a layer of anger, because it was the dad you didn't like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You must have added that in.
Guest:Well, I fake anger every night on stage, so I...
Guest:Wasn't hard to do it.
Marc:Have to get your eyes so puffy and fucked up half the time in that movie.
Marc:Is that just normal?
Guest:You know, I didn't not drink for the production.
Guest:I just didn't drink while I was working.
Marc:During the day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was an Outback Steakhouse.
Guest:I ate at the fucking Outback Steakhouse every day because the hotel I was in was by the airport.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's all it had.
Guest:It had an Outback Steakhouse in it and there was nothing walking distance and it was fucking freezing in Chicago.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so you'd get home with, you know, all right, I got, you know, seven hours before I have to go back.
Guest:So I'm going to eat again at the Outback Steakhouse and drink one of their stupid, you know, giant fruity drinks or something.
Marc:Yeah, it's probably a lot of sugar in there.
Marc:It's just naturally puffy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that kid's, he's a comic?
Guest:Yeah, it's T.P.
Guest:Mulroney.
Guest:You know that name?
Marc:It's his kid.
Marc:It's a real comics kid.
Guest:A real comics kid.
Guest:The girl plays my long-lost ex-girlfriend that I hadn't seen in 20 years.
Guest:Was played by my ex-girlfriend I hadn't seen in 20 years.
Guest:She's here, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, she's here.
Guest:She gave me a ride today.
Guest:And...
Guest:Fitzsimmons plays my old comedy buddy that I hadn't seen in 17 years.
Guest:And we did the math.
Guest:It's been 17 years.
Marc:No shit.
Guest:Oh, fucking so many coincidences on that.
Marc:I thought Greg was good because he's like, he's that guy kind of, I mean, he's not a hack, but I mean, you know, his disposition lent itself well to that part.
Marc:And that scene in the condo, I don't even know if those exist anymore, but that whole thing was very good.
Marc:Yeah, I think there's a couple.
Guest:I was asking around when I was up in Chicago, like, anyone still use comedy condos?
Marc:Well, I guess, you know, actually, Laura, Lara, the woman who opens for me in Vegas, they had a comedy condo.
Guest:Oh, Nashville.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, Zaney's in Nashville.
Marc:Still has a condo?
Marc:Yeah, it's a good one.
Marc:You know what the worst one was that really never left my brain was...
Marc:You remember the San Antonio River Center Club?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was a huge room in that horrible big mall.
Marc:And it was impossible to fill.
Marc:And they had, when they first opened, they had this amazing condo.
Marc:But when I went back years later, it was this garbage house.
Marc:And it was just one of those things where, you know, leather sofas.
Marc:It's like, why do you have a leather sofa in this kind of place?
Marc:And it didn't look, it was nasty.
Guest:We went out and shopped for the Zany's one condo.
Guest:couple times back and like filled it up put like a brand new i think we even put like appliances in just did everything brand new in the kitchen because they had like you know three forks and no knives and yeah filled it and went back there none of it was there none of the shit we bought for the condo was still in the condo yeah oh my god i don't know if the person who bought it for the movie
Guest:No, no, just because we were playing at Zaney's.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we just thought.
Guest:Just someone took all the shit.
Guest:Make up some karma for all the days we trashed.
Marc:Doing a nice thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So where are you, like, how are you feeling about stand-up in general now?
Marc:Do you have opinions about the world of stand-up or are you removed?
Marc:I'm forcibly removed.
Guest:I hate that there's sides now.
Guest:I don't want no part of it.
Guest:I look back and I think, how would I have handled...
Guest:covid if it happened in the 9 11 doug stanhope era right like i was very libertarian and very like i would have probably been anti-vax yeah and but at this time i didn't care because it played into my self-interest which is i want a reason not to go out on the road yeah i want someone to tell because
Guest:If I do it myself, then I'm being lazy.
Guest:I'm letting myself down.
Guest:But if you tell me that I have to stay home, now I have a reason.
Guest:So I'm believing you because it fits my own self-interest to believe that.
Guest:And when I get vaccinated, it's because I wanted to fucking get from point A to point B. Yeah.
Guest:What it takes to get on a plane.
Guest:I don't give a fuck.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I wouldn't do it.
Guest:I mean, I never get a flu shot ever.
Marc:Cause why?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've gotten them here and there.
Marc:I'm not consistent with it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the COVID thing was, I think for me, it was sort of like, you know, I guess I won't die of it.
Marc:But people are.
Marc:So if I can get any stopgap to that, it'd be okay.
Guest:I have a friend that's an ER doctor in Tucson.
Guest:Took care of Bingo.
Guest:Saved her life.
Guest:Solely responsible for her being alive today.
Guest:And I've known him otherwise.
Guest:He's done surgeries on me.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So he was my source reference.
Guest:He goes, yeah.
Guest:I'm like, how's it going?
Guest:He's like, yeah, fucking they say this is bullshit.
Guest:You come sign the fucking death certificates.
Guest:I'm signing all goddamn day.
Guest:I'm like, all right.
Guest:I know he's a nonpartisan dude.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So you're like, all right.
Guest:Okay, people are dying.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I do have that.
Guest:I've been chain smoking for 42 years.
Guest:So if I do get a lung infection...
Guest:It's going to be bad.
Guest:I'll probably.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's good.
Guest:But then again, it didn't turn out that way because I did get it.
Guest:But I was post.
Guest:It's later.
Guest:Post vax, I guess.
Marc:And also maybe a later version of the COVID.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who knows?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I don't.
Guest:How do you know if you have a cold anymore?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, the real question is, is like, what are the protocols?
Marc:Like, okay, I have COVID, but I feel okay.
Marc:How long do I stay home?
Guest:But the same thing should happen with a cold.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:People would always say, yeah, I get a cold.
Guest:I don't want to come out because I don't want people to get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would go, I'll get a cold, so...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just know if you have to go away from me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm sick.
Guest:Do with it what you will.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I'm going outside.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You probably don't take a drag off my cigarette.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I cough a lot.
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:But this side thing, it's weird because it really does feel to me that there's pretty much only one side.
Marc:And there's this tribal sensibility around, you know, what can be said and what can't be said, which is sort of founded in bullshit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then there's like just comics.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:That's what we have to talk about.
Guest:I know you've had him on Cliff Nesterov.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Have you read his new one?
Guest:No, I haven't.
Guest:Outrageous.
Guest:You love it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm carrying it with me.
Guest:I'm at chapter seven.
Guest:It is so good.
Guest:It's just everyone who says it's the end of freedom of speech.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I want to watch your face when you read this book.
Guest:And it brings you through every time.
Guest:You've never had more freedom of speech than today.
Marc:Ever.
Guest:And he spells it out in such amazing detail, going back all the way to the minstrel shows in the 1830s through vaudeville.
Guest:And you can't, you're going to get arrested for doing the jitterbug.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's so brilliant.
Guest:And it's just such a shut the fuck up to everybody who's pretending like your freedom of speech is.
Marc:To me, that whole position is fucking, it's becoming the new hack.
Right.
Marc:That was brilliant where you got the same three topics.
Marc:There was a time, though, when if there was a hack joke that became hack, and I don't know if you felt this, there was this sort of impulse to do the joke that ends the conversation.
Marc:I will do a bit about airlines that will be the final bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I believe a lot of it is pushing people to become weaker minds.
Guest:If you keep telling them they're racist for saying something that's not really racist, racists will embrace it.
Guest:I remember a comedian, and I tried to do a bit about it.
Guest:I don't even remember her name, but I can't pronounce it, but on Twitter, she just randomly I saw, she said, I'll never meet a racist halfway.
Guest:And you go, well, you know who will?
Guest:Fucking other racists.
Guest:If that guy's on the border and he keeps being accused, yeah, racists will...
Guest:I'll meet the motherfucker halfway because I can change his mind.
Guest:People are stupid.
Guest:If they're racist, there's something wrong with their... That means they're malleable and I can turn them into a Doug Stanhope fan and make them less racist.
Guest:You can?
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Do you have that magic?
Guest:Yes, I do.
Guest:Because I try to appeal to dumb people.
Guest:And I think we're all vying for the minds of the stupid event.
Marc:But I think that like, well, that's also the problem is, is that you make them feel smarter in a relatively proactive way that the dumb people that feel smart because they're reading QAnon, you know, that then, you know, they're lost to us.
Guest:Yeah, but if you get them into, it's the same theory as when you get hate mail.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you write back, hey, I didn't mean to offend you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm going to really think about what you said.
Guest:And they'll write back, I'm sorry, I was just in a bad mood when I sent that.
Guest:Like, if you're nice to them.
Marc:So, yeah, I think if you're, fuck it.
Marc:Well, that's the problem with anonymity is everybody thinks they're just talking into a void.
Marc:And as soon as you go like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Marc:You're like, I'm sorry, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like that quick.
Guest:You can change people by not fighting them.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:Maybe that's true.
Marc:Maybe I've got to settle down somehow.
Marc:But I've got quips because I'm going to moderate...
Marc:Book events where I'm going to go to New York with him and do a thing at the New York Public Library for his book.
Marc:I love that guy.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:Great historian.
Marc:Just the best.
Guest:Yeah, I've been plugging it.
Guest:I've been plugging his shit more than my own.
Guest:Yeah, it's not even out yet, I don't think, is it?
Guest:No, it comes out.
Guest:You can pre-order it now.
Guest:It comes out in November.
Marc:What's it called again?
Marc:Outrageous.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:I talked to him about when he was writing the book, we had a conversation about this, about this idea of not being able to say things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I can't... It drives me nuts, and I have a lot of things to say about it, but it's gotten me... Look, I was always critical of comics, and I can be a dick, you know, but now it's become this other thing where there's, you know, these teams, and it feels menacing sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, I really enjoyed comedy as a... The same way people enjoy AA, even though they don't... All right, you've been sober for...
Guest:50 fucking years do you really need to go to a meeting but no it's a community yeah and that's how comedy felt and it it feels like it's and it's usually by design yeah that they're to bifurcate people because that sells tickets right there's conflict right uh we we need that so once they found out someone hates your fucking joke any joke you tell someone is upset about it it's just okay who who who's gonna get the bullhorn yeah
Guest:Which we've found one outraged person, and we can spin that into people are outraged.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, like three people.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:But you're going to get clicks if there's outrage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've made this argument, and you're my age, basically, that pretty much everything, the doom and gloom, the fucking end of days...
Guest:We've seen versions of it before.
Guest:There's nothing new.
Guest:AIDS.
Guest:AIDS was fucking terrifying.
Guest:People wouldn't shit on a fucking public toilet.
Guest:You would hover shit.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Remember that shimmel bit?
Marc:It's like where...
Marc:He goes, he doesn't like going to public bathrooms, I remember, and he goes and he has to shit in the airport bathroom.
Marc:He's about to get on a plane, but he kind of hovers over it and he drops the shit out and one drop of water went up his asshole.
Marc:So he said he's on the plane for three hours wondering what's living inside of him now.
Marc:It's something like that.
Marc:That guy was funny.
Guest:Yeah, he was in Phoenix.
Guest:He lived in Phoenix when I moved there.
Guest:I moved there after six months of open mic.
Guest:I started in Vegas, and then I fell in love with a girl and moved to Phoenix.
Guest:And I remember seeing him in a supermarket.
Guest:He was in front of me in line, and I'm like, oh, my God.
Guest:Robert Chimo.
Guest:Can I say hi?
Guest:Should I say hi?
Guest:Excuse me.
Guest:Robert Schimmel, I'm Doug Stanhope.
Guest:I'm a comedian.
Guest:I just moved to town.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:Nice to meet you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You did it.
Guest:You did it.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:But, but, but yeah, it is a community and it does feel strained to me and it's, it's kind of, we're all a little bit competitive, but I don't like this team spirit shit.
Marc:I don't like kissing rings.
Marc:I never did.
Marc:I don't like that there's individual—they've created their own show business, and everybody sort of has.
Guest:But I just— I think Los Angeles, it's far more prevalent because of the whole writer's angle, like writing rooms.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, fucking straight white man can't get a fucking job in a writing room anymore, which is kind of true.
Guest:It kind of fucked up.
Guest:Kind of.
Marc:But it's not really because, you know, the whole problem with that is like it's usually old white guys.
Marc:And the truth of the matter is, and I was guilty of it on my show, is that, you know, if you bring in other points of view, you're only going to broaden the comedy possible.
Marc:You get these guys that have been doing it for 40 years, writing just one-liners, and they know the racket.
Marc:But if you actually bring a different point of view, a younger point of view, a women point of view, an ethnic point of view, it's like all you can do is get better shit.
Marc:But there's also the firing.
Guest:I know – I can't say names, but he was writing on some show some joke that –
Guest:Not just didn't go over well.
Guest:He was like, am I in, like, Me Too waters?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was just a funny idea, I thought.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He didn't know if he's being paranoid.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Obviously, he...
Marc:Well, yeah, but that's the other thing.
Marc:I guess that's where the sort of rubber meets the road around what you can and can't say is if you're in an employed environment that's loaded up with fear and hostility.
Guest:That's why I'm saying, that's why L.A., you feel that tension more than you do any else.
Marc:But I just watched Larry Charles' new movie, Dicks, a musical.
Marc:Holy fuck, dude.
Marc:That guy just let it rip.
Marc:But he balanced it.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:It just came out.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:It's the most crass, filthy fucking thing I've ever seen in my life.
Marc:But he balanced it in a world of a real musical.
Marc:And it's sort of a gay point of view that he's dealing with.
Marc:So all the filth, you can't stick him with it.
Marc:You're insensitive.
Marc:You're this.
Marc:You're homophobic.
Marc:You're that.
Marc:Because he balances it all out.
Marc:But dude, it is fucking dirty.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's great.
Marc:So when that happens, you're like, all right, it's still possible.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:You can do it.
Marc:You can do it smart.
Marc:Corporations are spineless fucking entities.
Marc:They're giant leviathans built with a bunch of frightened people.
Marc:So when somebody gets nervous in a corporation, then a monolithic force in the culture shuts people down out of panic and
Marc:But I think that most of the time, individuals, you can still have a conversation.
Marc:But the fear I have with the divisiveness is that there won't be any conversation.
Marc:And it doesn't seem like you're guilty of that.
Marc:But I think sometimes I am.
Marc:Like, I don't want to talk to them.
Guest:Oh, I...
Guest:if i'm being smart i know anytime there's a new landscape there's opportunity so if this is like like while it's still fresh yeah you you can make money off of it if you're smart and that's what a lot of comics are doing i think they're tooting that fucking woke or anti-woke freedom of speech because i'm not seeing a lot of woke tooting but i'm seeing a lot of anti-woke tooting the the
Marc:The point is, there's an opportunity there.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:But the thing is, it has bigger implications now because the culture is on the brink of this weird fascistic shit show.
Marc:And, you know, anti-woke, what does anti-woke even mean?
Marc:It's just sort of like, what lives in the woke house?
Marc:I'll tell you what, Jews, gay people, immigrants, black people, Democrats, liberal, they're all fucking Satan in the big house.
Marc:So if you're sitting there going, these fucking woke motherfuckers, there's a whole political movement that's just maybe a year away from putting people in ovens.
Marc:Maybe I'm being overdramatic.
Guest:But that's where it's going back to, we've seen everything before.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:I might not want to see that again.
Guest:It's not new.
Guest:There's never been a time, an era where people are saying, hey, these are the greatest days.
Guest:It's always fucking doom and gloom.
Marc:But there's never been entire states on fire at once and 140 degree temperatures before.
Marc:Yeah, that's a little bit new.
Marc:I did this joke.
Marc:I think you'd like it where I talk about these Republicans or the GOP.
Marc:They were never pro-democracy.
Marc:All these people that are like, well, you know, it's not a democracy.
Marc:It's a federalist republic.
Marc:And then I say, oh, so are the camps going to be a state issue?
Yeah.
Marc:Because then we'll know when to leave.
Marc:Just give us a heads up.
Guest:I've always kind of been homeless as a comedian.
Guest:Even starting out, there was no scene in Vegas.
Marc:But you're a singular guy.
Marc:You're like some sort of roaming truador.
Marc:You have built your own sort of...
Marc:not just world, but you were a singular entity.
Marc:People in comedy, when you say Stanhope, you're like, oh yeah, Stanhope.
Marc:And then a whole other thing.
Marc:It doesn't even fall in the spectrum of mainstream comedy.
Marc:It's like, oh, that's Stanhope's world.
Marc:Yeah, I don't think I get pigeonholed.
Guest:There's a whole lot of stuff that
Guest:I talked about that.
Guest:I don't know if I got canceled because Netflix just stops playing your shit sometimes.
Guest:If you're not famous... A week after.
Marc:I had two specials on Netflix.
Marc:I couldn't find them.
Marc:They premiered in three days later.
Marc:I'm like, is it off?
Guest:There's no notice from them as to why it might not be there.
Guest:It's just not... No, it's an algorithm.
Guest:And there's a couple that I go, I'm glad that one's not on there anymore.
Marc:A lot of that stuff...
Marc:But, yeah, that's because there's no real mainstream media anymore.
Marc:Everyone's just building their own entertainment empires.
Marc:And most people only, you're locked into one.
Marc:You don't know what's going on in the other.
Marc:It just isn't, the center doesn't hold anymore.
Marc:And we just got to accept that, I guess.
Guest:And I think there's something great about that.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Well, you were ahead of the curve on that.
Guest:Whoever had that theory that if you have 1,000 fans, that's all you need?
Marc:10,000, I think.
Marc:Wasn't it?
Guest:Well, yeah, that are serious, that will buy any book that you put out.
Marc:You can carry a life, yeah.
Marc:You can make a living off of it.
Guest:Exactly, and I think it's great that there's that many channels.
Marc:Yeah, to throw your hat into the ring with a million other people and then wonder why you can't fucking make it work.
Guest:I'm going back to my roots.
Guest:After this year has really put a lot of things in perspective and home being important.
Guest:I really just want to focus on getting...
Guest:The crazies.
Guest:Like I've always had suicide cases and psychopaths and mental illness cases that are fans of mine.
Guest:And I like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Tragic figures.
Guest:And so I'm sure you have like stalkers and people who send you crazy emails.
Guest:Good and bad.
Guest:As though you're already in a conversation.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You get those?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, I'm saying I'm taking yours.
Guest:Listen, there's someone listening to this podcast right now that thinks that Marin is talking to you specifically.
Guest:And no, he's not.
Guest:I am.
Guest:Doug is.
Guest:My podcast.
Guest:Hear him out.
Guest:Yeah, come to my podcast.
Guest:What's it called?
Guest:Send me all your fucking crazy letters.
Guest:Just don't show up at the house.
Guest:Yeah, I had one of those.
Guest:I had a couple, yeah.
Guest:One restraining order and one literally.
Guest:The cops in my town are so great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because you know him by name.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And they literally picked one of the guys up.
Guest:He hadn't been on my property.
Guest:There's no reason to arrest him.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You can't do it.
Marc:You can't do anything.
Guest:He was squatting in front of my door, yelling into the security cameras, and they literally drove him to the city limits.
Guest:They did?
Guest:Like the Wild West?
Guest:He hitchhiked from Ohio.
Guest:We knew he was coming for days because he was putting it on his Facebook and pictures of him with a meth pipe and a Pabst Blue Ribbon.
Marc:So you want all of them.
Marc:You want those people.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:Send them my way.
Guest:If you can afford Patreon, if you can afford crack, you can afford to get on my Patreon page.
Guest:Do you find that you help them?
Guest:I have a lot of suicide that have gone well.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had a Russian soldier...
Guest:Just email me.
Guest:And it's funny because I have a Ukrainian fan that would give me Ukraine war updates.
Guest:And I'm like, this guy, you probably not write me back or you go to prison for I write.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, I want to make a peace accord between my Ukrainian fan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my Russian soldier fan, if I can get them on email to make friends, that's a start.
Guest:Get them on the podcast.
Guest:Yes, that would be a beautiful thing.
Marc:Well, I like that you want to make the world a better place, Doug.
Guest:Yeah, just by the two people I know.
Guest:I was some fucking fruity.
Guest:You got to start small.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I appreciate that, man.
Marc:It's good talking to you.
Marc:You too.
Marc:All right, there you go.
Marc:Road Dogg, the movie, is now on all on-demand platforms.
Marc:And you can always, we'll see.
Marc:Doug seems to be taking a break.
Marc:But you should go experience the Stanhope when he comes to your neighborhood.
Marc:All right, hang out for a minute.
Marc:For full Marin subscribers, there's another half hour of me and Louie talking about comedy in this week's bonus episode.
Guest:I try and think about what is my joke really saying?
Guest:So if it's satire, if I'm saying something quote unquote bad, what is the reverse of that?
Guest:Like what is the message of this joke?
Guest:And am I okay with that?
Guest:And I try and run every joke I tell through that filter.
Guest:And if I'm okay with it, then it's fine.
Marc:You're setting up this thing that could really go south.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And instead of matter of facting,
Marc:You know, you kind of do an amazing turn of phrase where, you know, you're saying essentially the wrong minded thing, but the joke is elevated.
Marc:So people are impressed with the, you know, like, oh, shit.
Marc:You let us off the hook.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:You build that tension and then release it.
Guest:And that's what it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love that.
Guest:And like.
Guest:I have a new joke that's not on the special where, like, I lose them, I get them back, I lose them again, I get them back again.
Guest:And it kind of, it's taken me so long to have that confidence.
Marc:I used to do, I used to say what that was.
Marc:What?
Marc:I used to say on stage, like, this is my system.
Marc:I push you away just to pull you back in.
Marc:I push you away just to pull you back in.
Marc:It's a little dynamic.
Marc:I call dad.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:It just took me a while to accept those silences.
Guest:I trim so much fat from my act.
Guest:Me too, dude.
Guest:And to just be able to say, you're going to lose him here.
Guest:The next line's going to get him back.
Guest:It's going to be okay.
Guest:And that's something I've learned in the last couple years.
Marc:To sign up for the full Marin, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+.
Marc:Folks, next week, we have Joan Baez on Monday and Jeanette McCurdy on Thursday.
Marc:Those were heavy.
Marc:Anyway, here's some guitar.
guitar plays softly
.
.
Thank you.
.
.
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.
Marc:Oh my God.