Episode 1479 - Rob Halford
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuck, Nicks?
Marc:What the fuck, Adelix?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:I just did a show up here in Bellingham, Washington.
Marc:I'm recording this in my hotel room in Bellingham, Washington.
Marc:Now, Rob Halford is here today.
Marc:He's the front man of Judas Priest.
Marc:He's regarded as one of the greatest metal singers of all time.
Marc:He wrote a memoir in 2020 called Confess and followed it up last year with a second book, biblical.
Marc:And I talked to him.
Marc:I did not know what to expect.
Marc:Again, I could poke around and see him on other things, but I had no idea.
Marc:And I don't know that Judas Priest played a... Well, they didn't.
Marc:I'll be honest with you.
Marc:They were not...
Marc:one of my bands.
Marc:I was not really a metal guy early on.
Marc:And it's weird when you come to metal later.
Marc:Now, the thing about Judas Priest is that they were pretty accessible.
Marc:I mean, they had hits.
Marc:I knew the hits.
Marc:I knew the whole vibe, but I was not a metal kid.
Marc:I guess I don't know if my anger went in other places or I didn't realize it was anger or I was finding my release elsewhere.
Marc:You know, I think like I think Jewish kids are more prone to Jewish teenage boys are more prone to masturbating than metal.
Marc:I'm sure they go hand in hand for some people.
Marc:But I understand the music.
Marc:I was happy to talk to Rob.
Marc:And it was kind of exciting because I never know what to expect from anybody when I talk to him.
Marc:But what a lovely guy that guy is.
Marc:And what a smart guy and a humble guy.
Marc:He's out there in Arizona living a life with his husband, sometimes in San Diego.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:Okay, look, you guys.
Marc:Do you want to know where I'm working?
Marc:I'll be at Largo tonight, all right?
Marc:I've got Sophie Buttle and Allie Mack with me.
Marc:Next month, I'm in Boston at the TD Garden for Comics Come Home on Saturday, November 4th.
Marc:Denver, Colorado, I'll be at the Comedy Works South for four shows, November 17th and 18th.
Marc:And Los Angeles, I'm at Dynasty Typewriter on December 1st, 13th, and 28th.
Marc:Also in LA, I'm at the Elysian on December 6th, 15th, and 22nd.
Marc:And Largo again on December 12th and January 9th.
Marc:Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets.
Marc:And that's how it's going.
Marc:New materials going pretty good.
Marc:Bellingham was great.
Marc:You know, it was part of a festival up here.
Marc:And I just I want to tell you people, if you are the people I need to tell, that I do grown up comedy.
Marc:It's for adults.
Marc:it's on you it's your discretion whether you want to bring your children i'm not nate bargetsy i love nate bargetsy i've watched his special his newest one twice and i envy the cleanness of it but it is not what i do i'm not a family act and it was just one of those things i'm walking around bellingham i went and did a sound check at the mount baker theater
Marc:And then I'm rushing to the one vegan place I locked into.
Marc:You know, it's interesting about eating vegan is that whatever town you go to, if you find a pretty good vegan place, you can eat there the entire time you're in town.
Marc:And I used to like run around and try to eat all the foods that the places had to offer, you know, especially if, you know, they are known for something.
Marc:But now with vegan stuff, it's like, just give me a real vegan restaurant that's not garbage.
Marc:So I went to this place, The Fat Beat.
Marc:i went there twice because it was exactly the kind of food i made at home maybe a couple of different sauces and their approach to uh to beat uh kraut was a little different but but it was exactly what i like to eat so i i went there twice i'd go there three times i went to this other place old town what was it like the old town diner the old town cafe this morning amazing amazing tofu oatmeal it was good
Marc:nonetheless so i'm walking out of the theater after a sound check people are seeing in the street they're like hey mark maron i'm like what's up you know that thing and and then some guy walks up to me and he's got his wife and two kids with him and these are young kids they got to be maybe 12 and maybe nine and and it's a whole family and he's just thrilled he's like oh my god we're so excited we're gonna see you and i'm like are you bringing all of them
Marc:Are you bringing those?
Marc:Those children?
Marc:I don't think I had that tone, but I was like, are they coming?
Marc:He's like, yeah, we're all coming.
Marc:I'm like, well, I got to be honest with you, man.
Marc:It's going to be kind of a rough ride, really.
Marc:I don't know what to tell you, but it's going to be tricky.
Marc:And then I actually said to the guy, I said, you know, I'll try to give you a heads up when something that might be difficult for them to process is about to be talked about.
Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing?
Marc:Like, I got a 1200 people in there and I'm like worried about this grownup who I don't know how, how would you know me?
Marc:And I'm like, I'm not criticizing him for this.
Marc:You know, I get it.
Marc:You know, I think sometimes parents of a certain ilk will bring kids places and really believe that they it'll just go over their head.
Marc:They won't be able to process it.
Marc:But I don't think that way.
Marc:So now I'm worried about the kids.
Marc:And I actually made the offer that to him that I would, you know, I give you a heads up when you got it, you know.
Marc:hold their ears.
Marc:I don't know what, but I just don't understand who would, who would make a decision based on what, you know, to bring the kids.
Marc:And I've, I really don't have anything against kids.
Marc:It's just that like, you know, parents, you spend your life, you know, trying to guide your children and protect their brains, especially in the culture we live in.
Marc:But they're like, yeah, come on, let's get in the car and go see Mark.
Marc:And I'm like,
Marc:I think my comedy is for everybody, but it is, it is for grownups.
Marc:I mean, yeah, there may be some advanced ish, you know, 15 to 20 year olds, you know, I, I, they, they can wrap their brain around what I do and I'm not gratuitously filthy, but I talk about heavy grownup shit.
Marc:So that kind of threw a wrench into my brain for a while.
Marc:And I didn't know what I was really going to do.
Marc:I realized early on, I really tried to think like, well, what if I just made my act clean?
Marc:And I'm not talking about language.
Marc:I'm talking about ideas.
Marc:that i just don't think are appropriate for for for that young a person and it would probably come out to about 23 24 minutes probably with the bigger pieces but nonetheless i still didn't really know what exactly to do so i thought about it and then you know i got on stage i said look um
Marc:They're in Bellingham.
Marc:I tried to characterize Bellingham.
Marc:It was kind of funny.
Marc:I just I'm like, I don't have a sense of this town, but it seems like it's filled with like doulas and potters and people that look like they're about to hike or just got back from a hike.
Marc:And then there seems to be a few men around that look like they might make TikTok videos of them cooking meat outdoors with just a fire and a cast iron pan.
Marc:And a few men who look like they might be trying to play banjo in their 50s.
Marc:It got good laughs.
Marc:Maybe I nailed it.
Marc:But I said to the people, I said, look, there's a family in here.
Marc:I'm not going to point them out.
Marc:I don't know where they're sitting.
Marc:But I thought about it.
Marc:And I thought, look, man, this is not appropriate for children.
Marc:And it's up to you, but I will refund your money if you want to split.
Marc:I'm just telling you that up front because I can't tailor the act.
Marc:And I'm not judging your parenting skills either.
Marc:But I do want to say that as sort of a parental.
Marc:This is an R-rated show.
Marc:So I don't know.
Marc:Whether or not they took off or whether or not I changed some young man's brain forever.
Marc:Because don't you remember the stuff that you saw that you weren't supposed to see when you were like 12?
Marc:Does it ever go away?
Marc:I mean, I think I saw porn for the first time when I was 15, which is like just that's just the way it is now.
Marc:But it fucked my brain up.
Marc:I remember seeing Jackie Vernon when my parents took me to comedy club.
Marc:And I think that might have been the primary sort of exciting traumatic experience that set me on the path to being the comic that I am now.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I felt bad.
Marc:I mean, I just don't know what they based on.
Marc:Is the only thing they saw me in bad guys?
Marc:And they're like, we're going to go see the snake.
Yeah.
Marc:I don't know how it landed or what happened, but I felt like I did.
Marc:Would you call that due diligence or fair warning?
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:Maybe I'll hear from him.
Marc:Maybe I'll hear from that kid in 10 years.
Marc:Dude, you know, Jake Fogelnest, his dad used to take him to the Boston Comedy Club in New York City when he was like seven.
Marc:And that kid used to watch me when he was like seven.
Marc:He turned out okay, but it was touch and go for a while.
Marc:All right, look, thank you, Bellingham.
Marc:It was a great food, great show, nice people.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:I'm looking forward to Portland next week.
Marc:Rob Halford.
Marc:Rob Halford, I didn't know what to expect, but I knew he was one of the great heavy metal guys.
Marc:But I also knew that he was gay and out, and that was a big deal.
Marc:And I also knew that they were on trial when a couple of kids killed themselves, and their music was blamed.
Marc:But I didn't know how he would be as a guy, and it was quite a lovely conversation.
Marc:This is me talking to Rob Halford, the front man of Judas Priest.
Marc:His books, Confess and Biblical, you can get them wherever you get books.
Marc:Biblical comes out in paperback on November 7th.
Marc:And this is me and Rob chatting it up.
Guest:How have you not met Iggy Pop?
Guest:It's that thing where, you know, you grow up in music and you suddenly form attachments to people that are not specifically about music.
Guest:It's more about the character of a person.
Guest:It's more about their personality.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, of course, the world knows he's just a remarkable man on many levels.
Guest:So he's just a guy like yourself.
Guest:I'd love to meet this guy and just sit down and flap my lips and open my heart.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He's a sweet guy.
Guest:I interviewed him years ago, and he's definitely not the character.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:You see, there's this guy called Rob Halford, and there's this guy called the Metal God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've always enjoyed that kind of separation in personalities because I think it can be quite useful.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My friend Alice Cooper is my neighbour in Phoenix.
Guest:He's like the epitome of this idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you see this, whatever this is on stage, and that's where your focus is on the experience of a live show as well as the music.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you have all these wonderful things flipping around in your mind, like, what does he have for breakfast?
Guest:You know, that kind of crazy stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you realise...
Guest:We're all the same.
Guest:We're all the same.
Guest:But that's what I love about entertainment, and that's what I love about show business.
Guest:We need it.
Guest:Humanity needs escape.
Guest:It's just a vital part of what makes the world go around.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I wish that so much of it had not been applied to politics so effectively.
Marc:But what are you going to do?
Marc:But like but that's like I've never been I've spent most of my life trying to hold on to whatever sense of self I have that the idea of and I know I have different parts of me that live on stage, but to sort of commit to the full regalia of an elevated character.
Marc:I mean, and clearly you write in both books that it does feel amazing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But was there a sense other than with drug and alcohol that you would become the metal god?
Guest:It kind of wraps itself around you.
Guest:You're not aware of this happening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This moniker, this metal god thing came about from this song on the British Steel album, Metal Gods.
Guest:And I'm definitely not the kind of guy that wakes up one day and goes, today I'm going to be known henceforth from the metal god, all bow down and praise me.
Guest:It was just popping up in interviews and conversations and this, that, and the other.
Guest:This is pretty cool, you know.
Guest:It's nice to have this attachment.
Guest:But then, you see, you have to be aware of the seriousness of this kind of position.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because some people, a lot of people, really commit themselves.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They really make this strong emotional commitment and connection to you.
Guest:So when you bump into me pushing my trolley...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Around fries or whatever.
Guest:That can't be the metal god.
Guest:Because there's this great manifestation that goes on about, is the guy on stage, is this how he dresses when he walks around the house and goes to the store, whatever?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So you have to be respectful.
Guest:I think respect is the big thing in the relationship that we have with our fans especially.
Guest:Respect your fans because God knows without them, we wouldn't have what we're doing right now.
Guest:Everybody needs a support system, whether it's a family, whether it's a million fans, whether it's a work friend, whether it's a school friend.
Guest:That connectivity is important to us on every level.
Guest:So I embrace it and I probably understand it more now as an old man.
Guest:In my 70s, my early moving to mid-70s, I appreciate the value of what this moniker, the metal god, means now more than I did like 20, 30, 40 years ago.
Marc:But it seems like even when you write about it that you always had...
Marc:a real empathy for whatever the struggles of your fans were going through or for whatever really why they needed the music or who they were as a group that they, you know, were experiencing emotional upheavals on a full spectrum of, of levels as, as usually at the beginning, adolescent, you know, angry, repressed, frustrated and,
Marc:Troubled people.
Marc:So, but it seems like you never, you always sort of felt that and identified that.
Marc:So, to be gracious in encounters with them.
Marc:I imagine now, if somebody does find you and meets, sees you at your trouble, you're still metal enough.
Marc:I mean, you...
Guest:Yeah, I think you do.
Guest:I think you do.
Guest:You never lose that mantle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You never lose it.
Guest:It's there with you, particularly when you're out in public, but you're not on stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my radar's always on, you know, when I'm out and about.
Guest:People coming at you?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you know exactly who they are at this point.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And you just, you're gracious.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:And there's no way to be any other way than that.
Guest:And Lord knows when you...
Guest:When you've done a show and you get on the plane and you fly for two hours and you get off the plane and you're checking into the hotel at 3 in the morning and there are people waiting for you, you better be ready for that.
Guest:You better be ready for saying, wow, thank you so much.
Guest:It's the middle of the night and you're here.
Guest:Yeah, sure, I'll sign this stuff.
Guest:You have to be ready for that.
Guest:Sure, I'll sign all 90 of the records and the pictures.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, let me go into the eBay world.
Guest:This is a whole other podcast.
Marc:Have you noticed those guys all look the same?
Yeah.
Marc:The eBay guys?
Marc:Like, no matter what city I go to, maybe there's one or two, but I'm like, are you the same guys?
Guest:They travel.
Guest:They catch a plane.
Guest:They catch a bus.
Guest:They catch a train.
Guest:They do.
Guest:They text each other.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I had an incident not too long ago in Phoenix.
Guest:I got off the plane from a long flight somewhere.
Guest:How do they know you're on the plane?
Guest:Well, I'll tell you.
Guest:I'll tell you.
Guest:What?
Guest:Before I was surrounded by a bazillion things to sign, I said to this one guy, I said, how the hell did you know that I was on that flight?
Guest:You knew him from the other place?
Guest:And he goes, oh, we got a friend on the inside that works at the airport.
Guest:I go, what do you mean by that?
Guest:How were they able to get the...
Guest:the flight manifesto of the passengers.
Guest:And he goes, oh, we got somebody that works like with the fire department or something.
Guest:And I said, you know who's on the plane?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he goes, yeah.
Guest:I'm like, what?
Guest:The lens that some people will go to.
Guest:And that's a kind of a scary thought.
Guest:It is.
Guest:That somebody that's nothing to do with what we're talking about is able to get the plane manifest and, oh, he's on this plane leaving at this time and getting in at this place.
Marc:Looking for celebrities.
Guest:At this gate at the airport.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That happened to me once.
Marc:Like, obviously, I'm not a metal god, but I have a few fans.
Marc:And I couldn't understand how they knew because it was like in Iowa or somewhere.
Marc:Like, how the fuck did you know that I'm on this plane?
Guest:Everywhere.
Guest:I'll tell you where it doesn't happen in my worldly travel so far.
Guest:I don't think it really happens.
Guest:It doesn't happen in Japan.
Guest:I don't know if you've ever been to Japan.
Guest:No.
Guest:It's a beautiful place.
Guest:I want to go.
Guest:You've got to go.
Guest:It's this incredible balance between the Western experience and their Eastern philosophy, who they are and where they came from.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Incredibly respectful people.
Guest:It seems aesthetically pleasing.
Guest:It is.
Guest:It's just mind-blowing, the things that you can see there if you're into all of this art and creativity, music, whatever it is, kabuki.
Guest:It's just absolutely fascinating.
Guest:But the way they balanced that up, because up until the Second World War, they were closed off from the rest of the world.
Guest:They lived their own thing.
Guest:It was purely Japan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, of course, things change dramatically, but they never lost that part of their DNA.
Guest:There's a great band called Babymetal.
Guest:I don't know if you've heard of them.
Guest:There's three girls.
Guest:There was a lot of kickback when they first came about because it looked purely manufactured, commercially manufactured to make money, you know?
Guest:It's a Japanese metal band?
Guest:Japanese metal band, baby metal.
Guest:It's an all-girl band.
Guest:It's an all-girl band.
Guest:It's all-girl singers, sorry.
Guest:They've got guys in the band that play with them.
Guest:And they dress in a really kind of special way.
Guest:And when they first appeared, there was a tremendous amount of hostility and pushback.
Guest:Because, again, in the metal world, there's a tremendous amount of protection and self-worth and self-value.
Marc:Of the authenticity.
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:It's got to be real.
Guest:Keep it real, you know.
Guest:So when this band first appeared, there was a real lot of pushback, but they worked so hard.
Guest:And now, I mean, in Japan, they sell out stadiums, 80,000 people a night.
Guest:They'll do what they call a black show and then a red show.
Guest:Everybody dresses in black.
Guest:Everybody wears 80,000 people a pop.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Massive in their own country.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they've worked really hard to take this idea, take this music around the world, and it's gained traction.
Guest:I've watched them exponentially grow.
Guest:But this idea we're talking about with the way the Japanese people will take something from the West, if that's the right word to say, and then emulate it, but...
Guest:Give it their own identity and creativity from the Japanese point of view.
Guest:So there's a lot of that in Japan, you know, and there are no Ebayers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But now there will be.
Guest:There's none of those guys.
Guest:None of those guys.
Guest:It's never women.
Guest:There's a few, but yeah, here's another interesting thing about metal.
Guest:For the longest time, it was a predominantly male structure.
Guest:You didn't have girl singers.
Guest:You didn't have girls in bands.
Guest:Oh, no, this is metal.
Guest:It was a very sexist, misogynistic thing.
Marc:But you did have girlfriends who were pretty excited.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But in the role of musicians, it was, and I never, as a gay guy, I could never really quite figure that out, you know.
Guest:But again, we break through, slowly but surely, you break through barriers.
Guest:That's what I love about music.
Guest:The openness and complete unconditional love of music is acceptance for everybody doing whatever they choose to do.
Guest:Sometimes more popular, sometimes less, but you can kind of do whatever you want.
Guest:But again, respect.
Guest:So it's great to see how that's changed now.
Guest:The metal world is so much more open than it used to be.
Marc:Well, before I want I kind of want to go into the metal world a little bit.
Marc:But before I lose my thought around the metal God idea is that in the new book, biblical, like it seems like, you know, with the success of the first book, you were basically able to just make a list of things that, you know, you had something to say about and just put the book together like that.
Marc:Whatever it is, streaming, band managers, sex, sobriety.
Marc:But but one thing that you cleared up for me, because I know musicians, I talk to musicians sometimes and I've had friends and bands, was you kind of were able to kind of to get back to the Metal God idea to to talk specifically about how a lead singer becomes insane.
Marc:Because I had known guys in bands, and there was always this idea that, well, the singer's insane.
Marc:And you were able to avoid that, but you were able to observe the insanity happening in other bands.
Right.
Guest:Brock, you know, as I was driving here today to the Cat Ranch, I passed Forest Lawn, where I had two beautiful memories of Ronnie James Dio's memorial and Lemmy's memorial service.
Guest:And I'm trying to link that in an abstract way, that they were not lost through insanity.
Guest:They were lost through totally different issues.
Right.
Guest:Thinking about those guys in the world that they lived in, the craziness of the rock and roll world, the insanity, the sex and drugs and rock and roll.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Part of what we have.
Guest:Not so much the drugs now because everybody gets off the bus and starts lifting weights.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Which is great.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Yeah, I think it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Tell that to Jim Morrison.
Guest:But yeah, the insanity, the way that you have to really get your mind in focus and to be able to sit back and think, what is actually going on here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why am I emotions in this place?
Guest:Why do I have to reach for a drink now?
Guest:Why do I have to take a drug now?
Guest:Why is this peer pressure?
Marc:But also the idea that some of them drift into an ego state of mind, elevated ego state of mind where they are the band.
Guest:And the limo has to be at 66 degrees.
Guest:If it's 67, I'm not getting in that limo.
Guest:It's an easy trap to fall into.
Marc:Because it just happens.
Marc:You've got to be aware of it happening, of feeling those things.
Guest:I don't know how you would do that.
Guest:Actually, the thing about a lot of bands is that I was going to say I was going to use Priest as a reference.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, guys even now have difficulty talking to other guys about their emotions and their feelings.
Guest:It's just the way we're made up.
Guest:And I come from a different place.
Guest:I was born in 1951.
Marc:But also British.
Marc:So that doubles it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You don't cry.
Guest:Men don't cry.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Men bring home the wages and put them on the table and all that kind of stuff.
Guest:And stuff everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And stuff it all and just never let that out.
Guest:The anger and the frustration that so many men must have felt back then.
Guest:But even now, you know, it's a subject that this whole thing about men being open.
Guest:And men hurting and men having feelings.
Guest:You know, it's vital that even in 2023, we push the message out that we have to talk about these things.
Guest:But in bands, here's the thing.
Guest:When a priest finishes a tour, that's it.
Guest:We have literally no contact with each other, you know.
Guest:And it's, you kind of...
Guest:Use the word family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's almost like a dysfunctional family.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:Because you've got all these guys with different temperaments, different characteristics, different personalities.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this insanity thing, I wish there was somebody I could go and speak to, you know?
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And if you don't have that...
Guest:But you're surrounded by yes people because they want their job.
Guest:They want their wage packet every month.
Guest:They're going to go yes to everything.
Guest:Yes, you're right.
Guest:Yes, this, yes, that.
Guest:Yeah, take a few more drinks.
Guest:Yeah, have some more drugs.
Guest:Because they value what they've got going on in life.
Guest:They're not going to suddenly say, don't do this, don't do that.
Guest:You're fired.
Guest:Nobody wants to be fired.
Guest:So this over-believing in yourself and
Guest:inflating who you are.
Guest:It's a deadly trap, you know.
Marc:Yeah, and you can't be self-aware about it.
Marc:It's one of those weird things because I think everybody has that blind spot of ego where they don't have a complete reflection of who they are.
Marc:They don't have the humility enough
Marc:To see themselves clearly.
Marc:So I imagine when you have 20,000 people, you know, chanting your name, how would you not tip over into some sort of strange kind of position?
Guest:It's very easy to fall into the, don't you know who I am syndrome?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But I tell you, I tell you, this is also part of my own kind of dysfunctional life as it was then, not so much now, because I've been clean and sober for...
Guest:36 years.
Guest:But you do, you play to all those people, you pour your heart out, you're letting out all this pain and angst in your voice and your performance.
Guest:I'm just talking about me, I'm not talking about the rest of the band, I'm just using this as an idea.
Guest:You've got all that, right?
Guest:You come off stage, you do your food, you do your chit-chat, whatever, where are we going tomorrow, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:You go back to your hotel room, you close the door.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's you.
Guest:It's you, man.
Guest:It's you.
Guest:Look at yourself in the bathroom mirror.
Guest:It's just you, dude.
Marc:Sitting there eating a candy bar from the mini bar, maybe three candy bars.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:jerking off yeah did you read my jerky enough story yeah that was pretty funny it was it was i felt bad for you finagled finagled away to watch like 10 seconds of a porno on those boxes that i used to have on the little on the tv pre-computer pre-pre-getting your your porn on your phone
Marc:You really had to bend your brain a bit.
Marc:But, no, the humility of that is interesting, especially because I've been sober a long time, too.
Marc:And when you do get off stage and you're still feeling that you're jacked up and you've sort of burned through the possibility of hooking up with somebody or whatever, and then you get back to your hotel room and it's just candy and jerking off.
Marc:And at some point, you've just got to be like, I'm winning.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is good.
Marc:I deserve this.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Well, do you think that for all those years, one of the things that kept your ego in check, because in the writing, it seems like even in the midst of it and even looking back on your behavior, your drug problems or whatever, that this sort of being closeted and then on top of that self-medicating, that there was a type of shame that kind of grounded you in your personal life that probably...
Guest:saved you in some ways from your ego getting too far away from you yeah i think my background as from where i come from in the west midlands yeah called the black country yeah it goes back to the victorian age where it was all coal mining steel and you know the the country was covered in black soot and so toxic yeah i talk about in confess yeah you know walking to school past a
Guest:And metal steel works and the toxic fumes and everything was blowing into people's gardens and homes.
Guest:But the roots of who I am are from my family.
Guest:And this business of this being from the West Midlands and being from the black country and being a yam yam, as we call ourselves, a yam yam.
Marc:What does that stand for?
Guest:It's kind of a nickname for the personalities of the West Midlands and the black country.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You don't put yourself on a pedestal.
Guest:It doesn't matter who you are.
Guest:It doesn't matter what kind of house you live in.
Guest:It doesn't matter how much money you got in the bank.
Guest:You don't do that.
Guest:We're all the same.
Guest:We're all people on the same level, regardless of our material wealth, whatever it is, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So is that level, though, that sounds sort of pleasant and almost utopian, but is the level that we're all on shit?
Guest:I think that helps, you know.
Guest:I figured that out late Tron in life, you know.
Guest:We're all swimming through shit and trying not to drown.
Guest:So...
Guest:So you try, you struggle to try and find that balance and it's terribly difficult to do when you're, A, you're gay and nobody knows about it apart from a handful of people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and then B, you've got this cocaine problem and then C, you've got this, like, I come off stage, I must have my six cans of Budweiser, a bottle of Dom Perignon and a line of Coke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:every show yeah you know you got all that going on and I read this book after it was done I'm like who is this guy which one the new one I confess yeah yeah yeah who is this guy you know yeah how did you get through that you know and then we go into this beautiful spiritual higher power thing that I that I knew was always going on in the background through all that shit that I was going through there was somebody there you know you did think that there was somebody there yeah and um
Guest:I think even in those really dark moments, there was like that little teeny tiny bit of light, little bit of a spark that was going on.
Guest:You know, this thing about loneliness.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're born alone, you die alone.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Get that into perspective, you know.
Guest:Just watch the ending of War and Peace, a great BBC production.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And watching some of the people pass in that show and some of the people passed with friends around them.
Guest:And I think that's a great way to go out.
Guest:Yeah, if you have the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Sometimes it happens quickly.
Guest:I would like mine to be quick.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want the long lingering exit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Maybe a day or two.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Give me a day.
Guest:Give me time to text all my, I'm going now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I won't be coming back.
Guest:You won't be getting any more texts.
Guest:No more dick pics for you.
Guest:Not sending any more porn over the phone.
Guest:All that kind of stuff.
Marc:But the idea of higher power, it seems like you went to rehab, but in the book you say you don't really do the thing.
Marc:You don't do the secret meetings, which I've kind of not grown out of.
Marc:I still go occasionally.
Marc:But it seems that the idea of the spiritual framework of AA kind of stuck with you.
Guest:I think that was always there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I just needed to be shown the way a little bit.
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Guest:I was 30 days in rehab, and I met some beautiful people that were all from all walks of life.
Guest:And that's a great thing about rehab.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We're all in the same shape.
Guest:Yeah, we're all the same.
Guest:So this understanding of there is something else going on that, you know, if you tune into that, if you find a way to experience that and hear some ideas and some suggestions.
Guest:You ever hear that saying, God doesn't wake up and think he's you?
Marc:That's pretty good.
Marc:But yeah, but you also had that like something.
Marc:I mean, I had it too.
Marc:There was always some part of me that believed that, you know, I wasn't going to lose myself.
Marc:And you were at the precipice of suicide because of the hopelessness and loneliness of cocaine and everything else.
Marc:But you didn't do it.
Marc:I mean, there's something that got hold of you, whatever that little window and like something.
Marc:I mean, you did a pretty good run, but yet you didn't die.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And why did not die?
Guest:You know, I mean, there you go.
Guest:And then you say, well, why did some of my friends die?
Marc:Well, didn't your partner die from it?
Guest:Yeah, my partner who put a gun in his mouth.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That was just – he was having one of his tantrum rages and I had to leave because I knew it was just going to get –
Guest:explosive and and uh and i left and i went to a hotel by the airport in philadelphia and i called a friend i said would you just go check in on him and he was gone he walked into the room and he could still smell the cordite yeah oh really so i went back like two hours later i go over to the hospital and he's all hooked up and he's gone you know but thank god his organs went on to save other people's lives
Guest:But that's the extreme.
Marc:Was that your first real partner?
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:Was his name Brad?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The one, the love of my life now, Thomas.
Guest:We've been together for 3,000 years.
Guest:Oh, that's good.
Guest:He's from Alabama.
Guest:Oh, nice.
Guest:And he's a vet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was in Mogadishu.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:That was heavy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was in special forces in Mogadishu and in Iraq.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's a very interesting part of our relationship.
Guest:He sounds like he's a real metal guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he's never really opened up on that side of stuff.
Guest:And you know how the gays know everything.
Guest:We don't.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Again, respect.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Don't draw things out of people if they're not already leading you there.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah, I definitely know that.
Marc:I talk to people twice a week.
Guest:So this business of being in this darkest – the only way out is –
Guest:The blackness, you know, and then hopefully some light or flames.
Guest:It's a miracle.
Guest:It really is a miracle.
Guest:That's the only way I can describe it.
Guest:It kind of is, right?
Marc:Because as you get older.
Guest:What do you think about that part of you?
Guest:Is miracle the right word to use?
Marc:Well, I mean, I don't really know.
Marc:Well, what happens is, and I imagine you feel it every day, is you wonder, and you say it in the books, you know, like, you know, why am I alive?
Marc:I would not have been alive.
Marc:Like, that's what you really know once you get a little bit of sobriety.
Marc:There was no way that I was going to continue living as long as this, if I continued that.
Marc:And whatever stepped in, I mean, I think the real miracle is when you don't really think about it anymore.
Marc:But, you know, drugs or anything else.
Marc:But the miracle...
Marc:It was a miracle, and I do think there is some will involved, but the fact is that when you get the real understanding that you can't do it anymore, and you know that in your heart, that's kind of a miracle.
Marc:You're sick of being sick.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're sick of feeling sick.
Marc:Yeah, and also just that when you get that idea, well, in the racket they call it the powerlessness, that you can't.
Marc:The only thing you need to know, that is, if you take a drink, you're fucked.
Marc:And you have no protection against the next one, really.
Marc:I guess it's a miracle.
Marc:I feel all right.
Marc:Do you pray?
Marc:I do, at times.
Marc:Like, if I can't sleep, I'll run, like, a mantra of a serenity prayer through my head because...
Marc:The rhythm of it and the idea of it and the sort of non-denominational element.
Marc:Isn't it great?
Guest:It's a great little prayer.
Guest:It is.
Guest:I use it all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I start my day with prayer and I end my day with prayer.
Guest:That's just become, you know, as well, when you're an addict, you kind of push one addiction out the way and you bring another one in.
Guest:So I'm kind of addicted to prayer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which, is that right?
Guest:It's relatively healthy, I think.
Guest:I think it's, yeah.
Guest:So, but I find that really important to me.
Guest:I pray throughout the day.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Just, you know, not down on your knees thing.
Guest:Because I think, man, if you want to go really, really deep and thinking about human consciousness and the cosmos.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We're all atoms and neutrons and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I kind of.
Marc:I can't do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, the prayer thing for me, I mean, it was given to me as a suggestion to do.
Marc:I don't really have a tangible, not tangible, I don't have an established God in my mind.
Marc:But I do know, and somebody once told me that when you do pray, the sort of neural pathways of prayer are sort of in the collective unconscious.
Marc:So when you tap into that, there's a history that almost goes to the beginning of civilization that enables you to sort of put yourself into a relationship with something bigger than yourself, but also grounds you in your humanity.
Guest:And there it is.
Guest:That was just so beautiful and simple.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what it is, you know.
Guest:And I think that's probably why I love it so much, because it makes me feel peaceful.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No matter how difficult the day...
Guest:I might have had.
Guest:Would you go to that place when I'm lying in bed and I've read my daily meditation?
Guest:You got that book?
Guest:I got the book.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I read that every night before I go to bed.
Guest:It's the same book you've had?
Guest:Oh, actually, that got so battered and bruised, I thought, I'm going to put this in a safe place because I carried it around the world for 35 years.
Guest:I know that book.
Guest:Touchstones?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so I thought, I'll keep this there.
Guest:Maybe I'll put that on eBay.
Guest:Thomas put this on eBay when I go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I got a new one.
Guest:I primed myself a new one about a few months ago.
Guest:So I have the new touchstone.
Guest:So I did the touchstone thing.
Guest:And then, God, my prayers are getting along.
Guest:It's like almost 15 minutes of praying.
Guest:And do you conceive of a god?
No.
Guest:I love this thing where the atheists go, I don't believe in this man on a chair with a white beard and a white robe.
Guest:Where did that come from?
Guest:Well, you are the man on the beard with the white beard on the chair.
Guest:Yeah, this is my... I call this my Gandalf.
Guest:I like it, yeah.
Guest:This is the beard that Dolly Parton tickled recently.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:Rock and roll.
Guest:Was that great?
Guest:Yeah, that was just surreal, man.
Guest:You know, when I knew that...
Guest:She was going to be there.
Guest:The gay thing, I must have a selfie with Dolly.
Guest:And it ended up being more than that.
Guest:We ended up going viral, this picture of me and her singing The End of Jolene.
Guest:It just goes around the world.
Guest:And then three weeks later, I get a note from Dolly, would you sing with me on my new album?
Guest:What is going on?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's a song called Bygones, and it's a beautiful song.
Guest:It's about letting bygones be bygones.
Guest:You know, there's that phrase.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And when you think about what that means, she's a beautiful person on every level.
Guest:She's just this bright light of love.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you read the words, because she's been through a struggle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, all this business about the log cabin and the bare feet.
Guest:It's real, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Country music is a struggle.
Yeah.
Guest:I saw a T-shirt the other day, music is the best magic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or music is the greatest magic.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Which it is.
Guest:No, totally.
Guest:You know, what is this stuff that floats through the air, through the radio?
Marc:Well, I was listening to the songs that I went to when I was in high school, your songs from Judas Priest.
Marc:And they just drop into the groove in your brain right away, right at the opening.
Marc:There are the drums.
Marc:And you're like, I know this song.
Marc:And the interesting thing about music, it evolves with you.
Marc:And there's nothing else like that.
Marc:I mean, you can read literature, and it gets deeper as you get older and you know more things.
Marc:But music, it may represent some earlier part of your life.
Marc:But then you listen to it again, and you reposition it in your mind and in your heart.
Guest:And this is why when you go on stage,
Guest:We're in a band called Judas Priest.
Guest:And you know everybody in that room wants to hear a song that you wrote in 1980.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They don't give a shit about anything else.
Guest:They want to sing Living After Midnight, Rocking to the Door.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And if you don't provide that opportunity...
Guest:You better just, you know, pack it in.
Guest:It's going to be bad.
Guest:It's going to be bad.
Guest:It's going to be bad.
Guest:It's going to be chairs.
Guest:It's going to be bottles.
Guest:And these are like 50-year-old men.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Do not piss off an angry 50-year-old metalhead from Georgia who has not been drinking his Bud Light, but he's just, he's lit.
Marc:Yeah, he's lit and he's ready to.
Marc:Why is some fucking living after me breaking all your asshole?
Marc:He wants to tap into him and his buddies driving in that Camaro.
Marc:in the 80s, right?
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:But outside of that, outside of the full catalog of hits, I mean, you didn't shy away from taking chances of losing that guy in Georgia.
Marc:I mean, you did projects.
Marc:which were very ballsy and vulnerable in a way that I can't even imagine going into it that you didn't know it was a risk in terms of how you would be perceived.
Yeah.
Marc:Fearless.
Marc:You've got to be fearless.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know.
Marc:But I mean, when you did it too, I mean, were, did you- I am a pig.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're all pigs in shit.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Look, the sentiment isn't lost on me, but when you did that, were you looking to erase-
Marc:What you had come from or were you looking to just try something?
Guest:Everything that we do in creativity has a connection.
Guest:If we're not purely able to do it ourselves, there are some brilliant, genius people that do everything themselves.
Guest:I've never been able to do anything myself.
Guest:I've always had a connectivity with another person.
Guest:And that's how that project came about, you know.
Guest:Through John 5, through Trent.
Guest:Trent gave me the opportunity to release it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But John 5, John Lowry, he came into my life.
Guest:Bob Lowry, Bob Marlette.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Bob Marlette came into my life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And suddenly we have this thing, we're just banging around ideas in a...
Guest:in Bob's house in Calabasas or wherever he lives.
Guest:And we were making this music.
Guest:And I loved it because there wasn't really an idea other than let's just see what we can make.
Guest:And it turned into this thing too.
Guest:I said, we need a name.
Guest:Well, there's just me and you.
Guest:There's only the two of us.
Guest:So it's two.
Guest:And then we went off into this...
Guest:We went off into this land of I'm a pig and digging a hole and then suddenly to start wearing slightly more extravagant clothes that are not really metal and wearing a lot of makeup.
Guest:And then suddenly going on MTV one day and going, speaking as a gay man, and it's out, you know?
Marc:Oh, you were dressed in that getup when you came out?
Guest:Yeah, there's a great picture of me on the internets.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because you go, well, look, obviously he is.
Guest:You know, this kind of closed-minded thing.
Guest:All gay people, you know, like to wear a dress.
Marc:Well, that's interesting, isn't it?
Marc:That, you know, you had this space because you were in a different manifestation of you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that the risk that you felt during Priest around being out for all the number of reasons that it would ruin the band, it would ruin you, the fans would turn on you.
Marc:But now you were like almost – you weren't the metal god in that moment.
Guest:I was the metal goddess almost, you know.
Guest:So I just went all in, you know.
Guest:And then –
Guest:Through kind of a really strange backdoor, and I use that openly, a reference to Shishi LaRue, the porn director, Larry, we met up and he goes, oh my God, you've got a new project going on?
Guest:I must make a video.
Guest:So...
Guest:like fast forward two weeks and we're in a, in a, in a lot somewhere in Hollywood for pig.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's got all of his porn friends.
Guest:It's just like, it's all porn, you know?
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And I told, told Trent and Jimmy Iovine, cause it was on nothing records.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we did, we did the whole thing, you know, and I, it,
Guest:And it was pretty risque.
Guest:It's still on the YouTubes.
Guest:Send it to the guys.
Guest:And Jimmy goes, I'm not releasing this.
Guest:I go, why?
Guest:He goes, there's no porn in it.
Guest:I go, what?
Guest:There's no porn in it.
Guest:I go, you want porn in it?
Guest:You told me it was going to be porn stars.
Guest:I said, there is all porn stars.
Guest:If you look at them, if you know porn, oh, there's what's it?
Guest:Bridget the Midget.
Guest:There's blah, blah, blah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, well, they weren't doing the fucking and the sucking and all that bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It would never have got played.
Guest:That's the whole point.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It would have been banned.
Guest:And I'm like, so you want me to make a video that's going to be banned, which means the music isn't listened to, so it's just like silence?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like silent porn.
Guest:There's just nothing going on, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's just a black screen.
Guest:Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted.
Guest:It's like, wow, you know, how the business works.
Guest:So did you release a video on it?
Guest:We released a video and, you know, from an artistic point of view, I think she did a fantastic job.
Guest:But that was after you came out?
Guest:That's a very good question.
Guest:That's a very good question.
Guest:Had we made... Was all that made before we did the video?
Guest:I can't... You know, I'd have to look through some kind of timeline of events.
Guest:But... Around the same time.
Guest:It was around the same time, yeah.
Guest:And so this thing now that we're going to go into about if you can find... If you can find the...
Guest:The headspace and the opportunity and the moment to come out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do it.
Guest:Absolutely do it.
Guest:When I was driving here today, I knew we were going to talk about a lot of stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you think there are more gay men?
Guest:Do you think there are more gay people than we know?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:There you go.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:And I think that culture is the pendulum swinging the wrong way again.
Marc:And I think that in certain states and in certain places that it's become life-threatening.
Marc:It always kind of was.
Marc:But I think there's a tremendous lack of
Marc:Empathy, support, protection in entire states now through legislation.
Marc:I think we're in a bad time.
Guest:Yeah, people are terrified.
Guest:I mean, we have been part of a group of people that have been, you know...
Guest:murdered, burned alive, you know, whatever, tortured, got all the most horrific things that have happened to gay people as they have for other minorities, you know, whether it's the Jewish faith, the fucking Holocaust.
Guest:Imagine Jewish gay people.
Guest:Jesus, double.
Guest:I know a few.
Guest:Yeah, there's plenty.
Guest:But, so yeah, you know, as much as that is like, it's terrible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's been terrible since day one.
Guest:When is there going to be an end to it?
Guest:I don't think there'll ever be an end to it while we have...
Guest:the attacks going on, the extremist attacks for political reasons or for bigotry.
Guest:You can't get rid of bigots.
Guest:You can't get rid of that kind of mentality of people.
Guest:But don't give them a bigger voice.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Don't give them a bigger voice.
Guest:And that pushes on to people that say, man, I would love to come out, but I might get walking down the street and somebody's going to hit me in the back of the head with a baseball bat.
Guest:So what a terrible thing to have to walk through as a gay person that's
Guest:in the shelter of your own mind yeah but but put that forward to people that are openly out and people know about it down your street have you heard so-and-so they're a fag let's go kick the door in right you know all that kind of mental stuff is is going around but even when you come out yeah i mean i get i get it all the time not not so much but i mean compared to some people but i get bashed you know yeah through texts and
Guest:I see what people say about me and all that kind of stuff.
Marc:But initially, you were surprised by the outpouring of support and the voice you gave to people that were in your position.
Guest:Yeah, because you fear rejection.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, of course.
Guest:You fear rejection.
Guest:That's the primary reason.
Guest:People won't love me because I'm going to tell them who I am.
Guest:Does that make sense?
Guest:Well, it does if you're a gay person and, you know, maybe you've got the kind of a job that...
Guest:For whatever reason.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I think it's very interesting that the moment that you sort of impulsively did it, you had some space.
Guest:I had some space.
Guest:Do you know what?
Guest:I question whether if I had not have come out like I did, would I still be in the closet?
Guest:You mean if you were just going along with Judas Priest?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I talk about in the book about having to hire because it was suggested to me by people in the industry, don't tell them that you're gay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It'll be the end of the band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What a horrible thing to think about, but it's a fact.
Guest:But the guys in the band knew, right?
Guest:The guys in the band knew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People in the label knew.
Guest:And, you know, particularly through the 80s when everything was peaking in metal and a lot of the guys looked like women.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The hair years.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:My friends from Motley Crue.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Poison.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My friends from Poison.
Guest:I'm just—and they're good friends.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know, I'm just saying—just think of how we were—some of us were looking then.
Marc:Yeah, it went from, you know, full-on sort of Dom leather to full-on drag queen.
Marc:But for some reason, people didn't frame it that way.
Guest:I don't know—
Guest:How did he get to that place?
Guest:Because we had the New York Dolls.
Guest:Why before that?
Marc:Well, that's 72.
Guest:Why before that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And they spawned Aerosmith and they took up where sort of the stones left off in the 70s in terms of fashion and kind of elevated that.
Marc:And then it seems like Aerosmith kind of...
Marc:took it into rock straight up.
Marc:But yeah, it became a thing.
Guest:But what was the tipping point?
Guest:What was the tipping point when guys started to look that way?
Guest:I can't think.
Guest:Was there a band?
Guest:Was there a person?
Marc:I think it was an evolution.
Marc:I mean, because Jagger was, you know, there was always drag around.
Marc:But like what the hair metal bands did, they were literally teasing their hair.
Guest:I think it was a case of we've got to do this too, otherwise we sink in the shit.
Guest:You know, we've got to... Guys, we're all going to go down to CVS and get like a bucket load of makeup and hairspray and nail paint.
Guest:We've got to do this.
Guest:If we don't look like this, it's the end.
Guest:And that's the... Then was the...
Guest:the dark side of the business you know you you had to really follow my leader yeah if we look they're top of the charts we've got to look that way we've got to sound that way and it's not that far removed now to some extent particularly in popular music you know yeah were you surprised though with some of the lyrics and the the outfits that people didn't know
Guest:Well, you know.
Guest:I mean, as far as, you know, opinions and ideas about the attitudes of...
Guest:Didn't you see the elephant was in the room wearing a tutu?
Guest:How come you didn't understand?
Guest:It wasn't a tutu, it was a leather military cap.
Guest:How come he didn't understand that?
Guest:What I did find amusing was that when it became a way that this is a gay guy, well, yeah, look what he looked like.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:Yeah, he got the whips and the chains and...
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:Yeah, well, you're obviously gay.
Guest:So there's a guy here in a metal band and he wears a biker's cap and he's got, you know, got on stage of the studied belt and he's got a whip and some handcuffs and he's wearing all this leather stuff.
Guest:And so he's, he's gay.
Guest:Everybody that dresses that way is a gay, you know, Marlon Brando on the waterfront, you're a gay, you know.
Marc:Well, but, you know, at the time, like, who was that artist?
Marc:What's his name from Sweden?
Marc:Or, you know, the guy who did the sort of very gay cartoons of sort of... Oh, Tom of Finland.
Guest:Tom of Finland.
Guest:What a great pioneer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But there are moments on stage where it looks like Tom of Finland created you.
Guest:But here's the thing, though.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How can a straight person have that perception?
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, they might have come across Tom of Finland.
Yeah.
Guest:Who knows what's under the bed?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:So, you know, it wasn't just a hustler and penthouse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just thought that was mildly amusing because he dressed like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, he's got to be a gay guy.
Marc:But it is interesting that the thing we were talking about, that the shift in the sexuality in presentation with the hair metal bands was something so aggressively feminine that was seen still through very straight eyes of the fans as just being a natural kind of evolution of the music.
Marc:That, you know, it was definitely... I mean, those guys were definitely in drag.
Guest:I think the side that helped...
Guest:Maybe bring some kind of balance that the music was tough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The music was tough.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And maybe it was because...
Guest:The girls like the guys looking like girls and the girlfriends of the girls that looked like the guys looking like girls went along with it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I think it's just like it was just I don't know what the psychology of it all is.
Marc:It's interesting.
Marc:But can we talk about before?
Marc:Because I don't like my history or sense of metal.
Marc:Like, I was a late comer.
Marc:You know, I grew up in, you know, I graduated high school in 81.
Marc:So it was around, but, you know, my bands were not specifically the metal bands.
Marc:But who defined metal?
Marc:I mean, because you're kind of at the end.
Guest:Oh, that's a great question.
Guest:Yeah, that's an encyclopedia of answers from whoever you asked that question to.
Marc:But you talk about the metal community, and it is a metal community, and you, you know, throughout both books, you're like, you miss metal when you miss it.
Marc:And so it represents a community, you know, who were, you know, what is the history?
Guest:Some people suggest that there was this great band called Blue Cheer.
Guest:Sure, I know them, yeah.
Guest:Summertime Blues.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:It was a really heavy song.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Some people suggest that the name...
Guest:Heavy Metal is from a Steppenwolf song.
Guest:I think, isn't it from William Burroughs' book?
Guest:Yeah, Heavy Metal Thunder.
Guest:William Burroughs as well.
Guest:The actual name.
Guest:But as far as the sound, this is the great debate, you know, because...
Guest:Sabbath, using Sabbath as a primary example.
Guest:I've always pushed that Sabbath were a heavy metal band, and my friend Tony would always go, no, we're like a rock band, we're a hard rock band.
Guest:I'd say, no, you're heavy metal.
Guest:No, no, I'd do that.
Guest:So...
Guest:I'll take that.
Guest:I will take that trophy that Judas Priest were the first ever definitive heavy metal band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what I think.
Guest:So that's a big thing to say, you know, because when this podcast comes out and they go, Alfred says the priest of the definitive heavy metal band...
Guest:I stand by that statement for lots of reasons.
Marc:Well, there was a drive to it that was different than Sabbath.
Marc:And it's a drive that you use through a lot of the records that I think you'll kind of move through a lot of heavy metal bands.
Guest:It's a definitive sound.
Guest:It's a well-honed...
Guest:find craft that came from these guys in the band that all had their own definition of what this heavy sound, this heavy experience should be, you know?
Guest:And also what you did with the Peter Green song.
Marc:Green Manalisha.
Marc:Yeah, it was almost like metal was always there waiting to be born somehow.
Guest:A great lot of songs can take that interpretation and become bigger than the original idea.
Guest:Yeah, because that riff is so big.
Guest:It's huge, and again, you don't know it.
Guest:Songs take on a life of their own that you have no input or influence on.
Guest:in any way shape before once he goes out into the public arena this this now belongs to us right you may have written this song but this now belongs to us and this is we're going to tell you what this song is did you ever meet peter i didn't know what i would have loved to have met him because uh the guy was a genius in terms of what he did with with the guitar you made him you made him a couple bucks i think
Guest:Ooh, probably.
Guest:Probably some, quite a few residuals.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But Christine McVie, who passed recently, she's from Birmingham.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of great music from Birmingham.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, Robert Plant.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you meet him?
Guest:Yes, I met him before I was anybody.
Guest:He used to hang out in a bar in Warsaw.
Guest:Oh, he did?
Guest:And he'd be propping up the bar with his golden locks.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I'd just stare at him.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Just stare at him.
Guest:Did you like them as a band?
Guest:Oh, yeah, they were a big influence for me.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:My early influences were Sabbath, because they were the local guys.
Guest:We've known each other forever.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:They were making this metal music.
Marc:So you were friends with all of them?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Still are now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How's Ozzy doing?
Guest:That guy's just unbelievable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:God, there's got to be a biopic on that guy.
Guest:But I mean, he's lived his life in the media.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right from when Sharon saved his life when he was at Le Parc in West Hollywood.
Yeah.
Guest:And everything we know about him comes from that moment in the solo experience.
Guest:But he did tremendous work in Sabbath.
Guest:You know, when you become this larger-than-life personality, sometimes people forget about your musical abilities, the great things that you've done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:the great monumental moments that you've had with music.
Guest:And I think a lot of that gets lost on Ozzy because he's the guy that bit the head of a fucking bat.
Guest:That's, you know, okay, that might lead you through a door into a maze of a hundred other, you know, songs and albums and so forth.
Guest:But, um...
Guest:For him to have gone through what he's gone through recently and for him to still have this great metal perseverance, this metal determination, how we view it in the metal community, that he's never giving up, he's never giving in.
Guest:It's that no surrender thing like Glenn.
Guest:Glenn Tipton, our guitar player, Parkinson, has just beaten him up.
Guest:But he will not quit, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then the discussion about people, not only in music, but in life that are facing challenges and difficulties...
Guest:health or otherwise you know we've i think we've all got this inner strength it's there man it's all there we've all got it you know yeah it might be at the bottom of the shit pit but it's there the survival thing yeah and how you do it yeah and how like you you yeah i i know guys who are a little older than me that are getting these things and and i initially uh
Marc:My experience is that their ego can't quite take it, but it will buckle you, and usually the desire is to survive.
Marc:It's all about survival.
Marc:Yeah, there's just such a humility to aging and to illness.
Guest:To aging, yeah.
Guest:Have you changed as a person in the last, like... I just turned 60.
Guest:You just turned 60.
Guest:But do you kind of feel differently than, like, when you're 20 or something?
Guest:I guess, you know.
Guest:Your perceptions on everything.
Marc:Yes, yes.
Marc:More self-awareness, you know, more tolerance, more...
Marc:Being able to stop myself from anger or from being more empathetic.
Marc:This show has taught me a lot in terms of talking to people and getting out of myself and connecting with the pain of somebody else.
Marc:So a lot of that stuff has evolved.
Marc:I'm still pretty neurotic and I still suffer from catastrophic thinking almost constantly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But in terms of behavior and just the humbling of the physical machine, sure, a little bit.
Marc:And do you love yourself as a person?
Marc:There are moments.
Marc:I think that there's still a lot of weird things.
Marc:Self-flagellation that goes on for this or that.
Marc:It's just my brain's wired for it.
Marc:A certain amount of like, you know, I'm an asshole or I'm this or I'm that.
Marc:But I don't see evidence of it as much as I used to.
Marc:So I know it's a phantom limb, but I haven't been able to completely, you know, get it under wraps.
Guest:When you create stuff, is it... Do you... Because I'm a perfectionist, I'm never happy with what I've done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like we've just made this new album that's coming out soon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I listen to it and I sometimes have to turn it off because I don't think I'm good enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think my role...
Guest:As a singer, as a lyricist, it's not good enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, that torture.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's no other word for it.
Guest:Why am I still doing that, you know?
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:Or the compare and despair business.
Guest:Yeah, why?
Guest:I mean, why?
Guest:Because everybody else is going, it's great.
Guest:And I love these people that say these things to me.
Guest:It's fucking great, man.
Guest:It's a great take.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:These are some of the best lyrics you've written.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:What do you know?
Guest:What do you know?
Guest:You know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why do we do that?
Guest:Is that exclusively for creative, artistic people?
Marc:I guess.
Marc:Confident artists, they're a little annoying.
Marc:So...
Marc:You know, the secret language of self-flagulation, shame, and never feeling good enough.
Marc:You know, that's our territory.
Marc:I don't know, you know, with me, because I do stand-up, and, you know, it is sort of a very personal, and it evolves, and, you know, once the bits... Like, I don't beat myself up as much.
Marc:Sometimes I wonder why I say certain things.
Marc:Sometimes I wonder why I think the audience needs to hear about it, because I'm very personal.
Marc:But I'm not a...
Marc:I get a little perfectionist, but I can let it go a little bit sometimes.
Marc:I think music's a little different because you can just keep taking and taking and there's no end to how many times you can try something and eventually you don't even know anymore.
Marc:You know, with comedy, you know, you're kind of, you know, once you put it on record, you put it on the special, that's it.
Marc:And then it goes away.
Guest:And can you let that go?
Marc:Yeah, I can.
Guest:I can.
Guest:You've got to be able to do that.
Guest:This let it go, let it go.
Marc:What I have a hard time with is comparing myself to others.
Marc:You know, accepting my own work, I've gotten better at that.
Marc:But thinking that, you know, why the fuck is that guy got, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why is he selling out Madison Square Garden?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Square Garden and I'm at like Chico's in Pennsylvania.
Guest:It's under the pizza store and there's three people in the room.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, you – well, yeah, but I've gotten better at that.
Marc:I mean – and I think that – I don't think I – as my friend Jim Gaffigan said, I don't think I ever touched the sun.
Marc:You know, I was never in Rio at that rock show for 100,000 people.
Marc:I never had the experience that you had.
Marc:But I've grown to accept the fact that, like, hey, maybe what I do isn't for everybody.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that's why.
Marc:The light bulb went up.
Marc:Yeah, that's why.
Marc:Yeah, and then I have to accept that.
Marc:And that's where I'm at now, thankfully.
Marc:I'm getting it done before I die, but it's still a little late, right?
Marc:It's always late.
Marc:But so we were talking a little bit, and I think we should talk about it because, you know, in talking about comics, like I recently rewatched, you know, not knowing I was going to talk to you even, I recently rewatched Bill Hicks's bit about the case of,
Marc:against judas priest do you know that bit have you seen it's on my notebook of notes yes i haven't seen the bit yet really but tell me what it is well i mean it's from years ago hicks has been dead a long time you know but uh but it was a lot of the arguments that you made which is like you know what kind of band would want their plans to die number one right yes and
Marc:Number two, like he just, you know, he talks about there.
Marc:I think there's actually two bits.
Marc:He talks about, look, if you're sitting around playing a record backwards, you're Satan.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because who put that idea in your head?
Marc:Satan.
Marc:So, like, he was definitely, you know, really kind of fleshing out comedically in only his way.
Marc:And he was a ballsy kind of a real kind of aggressive misanthropic humanist.
Marc:He was a great comic.
Marc:You should check it out.
Marc:But I remember when all that happened and even reading the account of it in Confess.
Marc:It's interesting because of the culture we live in now and because of religious fanaticism and whatever other reasons.
Marc:And also this is the age of the lawyer.
Marc:And that you were to this day not happy with the way it was settled.
Guest:No, because now stepping back.
Guest:Because stepping back is a good thing to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Especially in something so violent.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like an atomic bomb going off in front of your face in a courtroom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're literally hearing things where you just want to stand up and scream, but you can't because of court decorum and all that kind of stuff.
Guest:It was almost like I'd be sitting there and I'd be looking around.
Guest:I'm like, is this a fucking movie?
Guest:Am I in a movie now?
Guest:This isn't real.
Guest:Surely to God this isn't real.
Guest:But it was real.
Guest:Very real.
Guest:And the ramifications of the suggestion that subliminal messages are real and subliminal messages can influence a person to do something, it's just... And to have a judge fined for the prosecution...
Guest:Just think about that, you know.
Guest:Just think about how far that could go.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the argument about using, well, did this really happen in movie theaters?
Guest:They would insert two frames of popcorn into the movie, say, oh, I need some popcorn now.
Guest:Well, that's not subliminal.
Guest:That's real.
Guest:You actually really saw something physically manifest itself in front of you.
Guest:How do you do that with music, you know?
Guest:This suggestion that do it, which wasn't even a thing, it was just the way I was singing and the way I, because I did it in the courtroom, I sang the phrase and the way that it, you know, if you want to bring Satan onto the stand, he definitely said do it.
Guest:It wasn't, you know, it was just a complete fluke.
Guest:It was a fluke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So to use that as your case, to potentially destroy this band and to potentially...
Guest:put a radio station, every radio station in America would have to run a disclaimer before they played every song.
Guest:Before we played this song, we would like to say that if you hear a subliminal message, we are not liable.
Guest:You know the guy that speaks a million words in 10 seconds?
Guest:Got to do that every time you play a song.
Guest:The insanity of the whole...
Guest:end game was just, didn't people really think this through?
Guest:Because a lot of people don't think things through, you know?
Guest:I always think things through.
Guest:I can be impulsive and spontaneous, but at the same time, I know what the end is.
Guest:I know what the end is, you know?
Guest:I know what I'm aiming for.
Guest:They didn't seem to have...
Guest:They didn't seem to have a game plan.
Guest:They didn't seem to have an end in sight.
Guest:What it was, it was shifting the blame.
Marc:Off the parents.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And they wanted some sort of justice but couldn't take responsibility for their part of how they brought these poor kids up.
Guest:Whipping post.
Guest:And I have every empathy for what those family members and parents and friends went through.
Guest:I have every empathy.
Guest:uh for their suffering yeah they went through but more importantly the loss of these two beautiful boys who were hardcore metal fans they loved metal metal was their shelter yeah metal was their escapism metal was getting out of the dysfunctional screaming and yelling and punching and throwing yeah environment yeah and
Guest:I'm going to go into this beautiful world of metal and I'm going to get lost and enjoy and forget all the shit and all this business.
Guest:Process the feelings with the music.
Guest:And then this terrible thing happens, which has absolutely no relativity to music whatsoever.
Guest:It was a state of mind.
Guest:It was a dare.
Guest:It was kids playing around.
Guest:Whatever you want to talk about, you know, that horrible moment when the trigger was pulled.
Guest:the trigger was pulled, and then these guys were in a courtroom in Reno, Nevada, fighting for their life.
Guest:Beyond us, the industry was fighting for its life.
Guest:That's why the label financed the whole thing, because they could understand what the potential was.
Guest:So I run off to Puerto Vallarta to escape everything that's, you know, wait for the ruling from the judge.
Guest:And he gives this very kind of ambiguous...
Guest:wishy-washy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, it could have been this, it could have been that.
Guest:You know, the guys are okay.
Guest:They were just, you know, I'm sure they meant well, but blah, blah, blah.
Marc:And you didn't make it, you didn't prove, as opposed to just say this is all bullshit, you didn't prove your case.
Marc:There you go.
Guest:So he left an opening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the thing, he left the opening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know when you close a door, you're supposed to close it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But if you don't close it, you can see through the gap.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you can hear people and you can see all the stuff going on.
Marc:It's still an argument around rap lyrics, around rock lyrics that it promotes violence.
Marc:And Zappa used to fight against it.
Marc:I mean, there was big hearings on it.
Marc:But what was interesting about yours was at the beginning of it that these subliminal messages didn't exist.
Marc:And if you're playing a record backwards, what the fuck are you doing anyways?
Marc:And that your lawyers were able to prove that.
Marc:You can actually hear things and other things said backwards that were nonsense.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the idea that the judge says that the First Amendment doesn't protect speech that's played backwards is crazy.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:So that must have been the red flag at the beginning where you're like, oh, we're fighting for our life here.
Marc:If that's the way he's going to see the Constitution.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How one person who is a judge has his own particular.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You read the Constitution and it's there in black and white.
Guest:I'm not American.
Guest:I love this country.
Yeah.
Guest:I've lived here long enough.
Guest:I pay my taxes.
Guest:All of my taxes are through the IRS.
Guest:I think I have a voice economically.
Guest:But this is great.
Guest:I'll read the Constitution.
Guest:I'll tell you what I think.
Guest:Give that piece of the Constitution to the judge, and he'll tell you a completely different story.
Guest:I mean, but that fight against censorship has been real and long fought.
Guest:Since Alvis went on.
Guest:Lenny Bruce.
Guest:Ed Sullivan.
Guest:Do not put the camera below his waist.
Guest:That's a great story.
Guest:Did you see the biopic?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just a great story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But Lenny Bruce.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a fight.
Guest:And I welcome it.
Guest:And I think it's important.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I'm about as liberal as you'll ever meet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I hate censorship in any way, form whatsoever.
Guest:I'm all for...
Guest:Giving people a heads up.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And some of my friends would argue against that.
Guest:Don't give them a heads up, you know?
Guest:So when we went into the ratings world where Dee Snider had to go to Washington and talk about, you know, we're not going to take it and twisted motherfucking sister to all this business, you know, and the...
Guest:All these guys in suits are trying to connect to this guy's world and they're clueless.
Guest:They don't even know how much a gallon of milk costs, let alone talking about music, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when this all, the typical business, you know, and suddenly we had ratings on records.
Guest:So you could argue that, yeah, it's in the movies.
Guest:Movies have suggestions, right?
Guest:Who makes those suggestions?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:There's a board of people that go, there's too many tits in this film, it's an R rating or it's whatever.
Guest:So this idea of putting that into music and parental guidance, you know,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you've got a 10, 11-year-old kid who's suddenly a metalhead and they want to hear a song and this album and there's all this profanity and this that and the other.
Yeah.
Guest:Whose role is it to protect that kid?
Guest:Is it the parents?
Guest:Is it the record label?
Guest:Is it the band?
Guest:Who's in the game?
Guest:Who's on the pitch here now?
Guest:Who's refereeing this whole thing?
Guest:We can give you an idea.
Guest:We can give you a suggestion.
Guest:We can put on this Judas Priest album, PG-rated or whatever it is.
Guest:I don't know what the hell it's called.
Guest:So that was a very interesting...
Guest:experience and exercise to watch this because I was in the country when all those hearings were going on.
Guest:And I knew the heart and soul of it was politics.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Mobilizing religious fanatics.
Guest:That's all it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was votes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was all about votes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:And to blaspheme music at that level...
Guest:To pour fire onto it and set it to light just for your political agenda, just so you could get the votes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's how you, I mean, that's, there's a clip of Zappa in like 86.
Marc:you know, around censorship, saying that what this country is headed towards is a Christian theocracy.
Marc:And it was on Crossfire, and Robert Novak was like, what are you talking about?
Guest:And he was right.
Guest:Absolutely right.
Guest:I mean, you know, taking the books out of schools, taking the books out of libraries in 2023.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I was born in 1951 and, you know, the World War II had just ended and a lot of my country was still flattened and rebuilding.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And before that, there was this guy that would burn all the books that he didn't like and this guy would burn all the art that he didn't like and this guy would, you know, kill people because he didn't fucking like Jewish people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How far are we removed from that to now?
Guest:Not that far.
Guest:Not that far.
Guest:Not even 100 years.
Guest:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, after all, for some reason, I want to come back.
Marc:You were very close with Ronnie James Dio, right?
Guest:Yes, we were friends.
Guest:I wouldn't say I was as close to him as some people, but we had a friendship based on a mutual respect for each other's work.
Guest:And he came after you, though, right, in terms of metal?
Guest:But at the same time, he's got a great life story, great life story from when he started.
Guest:And Lemmy, was it a little after you?
Guest:Lemmy, Motorhead, you know, Lemmy was part of what was called the new wave of British heavy metal.
Guest:Okay, okay, yeah.
Guest:And so that music from both of those guys, Ronnie, particularly because he's a fellow singer, and he still is a tremendous inspiration.
Guest:I still listen to Ronnie before I go on stage, just as, you know, you work yourself up.
Guest:Rainbow Ronnie or Ronnie Ronnie?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:runny runny yeah you know you're going from a room with four or five people into on stage there's 20 000 people waiting you better be ready yeah yeah yeah you better be on yeah you know yeah what do you do before you walk out do you do you just walk out from your dressing room oddly because i work in small theaters and comedy clubs i listen to the uh
Marc:to the kind of volume of the audience chatter, and I can sort of tell how much they've had to drink.
Marc:So I kind of gauge that and kind of mentally sort of prepare how I'm going to approach this.
Marc:Because I like to sort of be pretty vulnerable pretty quickly.
Marc:I'm not there to blow them out of the water.
Marc:But I kind of listen to the audience.
Marc:I watch my opening act.
Marc:And I decide what my approach is going to be for the first 10 minutes to get to where I want to go.
Marc:So that's how, that's what I do.
Marc:But in terms of preparation, I don't know.
Marc:I tend to just make sure I see where I am.
Marc:I'm very, I'm sort of like, I love backstage areas.
Marc:Because for me, it's sort of like, this is show business.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, me, I love it.
Guest:I love walking to the stage.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I love saying hi to the janitor and all that.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I love saying hi to those people, you know, because without them we wouldn't be able to... But it's grounding.
Guest:It's grounding.
Guest:Yeah, it does.
Guest:I love it, you know, because you go from that into Disney, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:But when you do...
Guest:Is there a correlation?
Guest:Because in music, when I'm putting a set list together for the band, I start at a certain place, I take us through to this midpoint end, midpoint experience, and then I end with the fireworks, you know, for the July.
Guest:Do you do that with stand-up?
Marc:I definitely have a closing piece.
Marc:You know, I kind of move around and decide what I want to close with.
Marc:We are working towards it.
Marc:I like to leave room for...
Marc:You know, depending on the town I'm in, I like to make it very personal and have as less of a fourth wall as I can without them actually having a conversation with me.
Marc:So, like, I'm creating an intimacy where I think ultimately you're creating a spectacle, which is, you know, it's just a different racket, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a different racket, but it's a saying, how do you cope with the person that flips you off or talks?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm pretty good at shutting them down.
Marc:I can be relatively diplomatic, but at this point, most of the people that come are my fans.
Marc:And a lot of times when they talk, it's because I've created an environment where they think we're in conversation.
Marc:And so I can be fairly polite with shutting them up and just say like, oh, look, I'm not that interested in you right now.
Marc:I appreciate your input, but I think it's got to stop you.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That's the polite verbal bird.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Now, where does ACDC fit into your world?
Marc:Anywhere?
Guest:Oh, this is amazing.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Love them.
Guest:They were the ones.
Guest:Who was I talking to about?
Guest:I was talking to the driver last night, Steve, who picked me up from the airport.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're driving from Burbank to the hotel.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we were talking about this big event that's coming up, the power trip.
Guest:Oh, with guns and ACDC.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we're going, it's Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Guest:We're on Saturday night.
Guest:I love Saturday nights.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's a priest on Saturday night, ACDC and Judas Priest.
Guest:The beautiful thing about this, and why is it happening?
Guest:Because it's just too fucking coincidental.
Guest:Why is it happening that Ozzy has to say, I can't make it, so I'm bringing my mates, Judas Priest, in to do my spot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we drop everything because we have each other's backs in the real sense of what that means.
Yeah.
Guest:But why is it happening that we're with ACDC, who took Judas Priest out on a European tour in 76, 78?
Guest:So was that Bonn?
Guest:With Bonn.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Great.
Guest:And we have one of the most amazing, and they're filling out every venue, and they really opened the doors for us in Europe, like Gene and Paul did for Priest with Kiss, you know, a little bit further on in the 70s, early 80s.
Guest:And we're going to go back on stage together.
Guest:And here's the real kicker.
Guest:I haven't seen any of those guys since then.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:We haven't seen each other since then.
Guest:I haven't seen Angus since 1978.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:I can't think of a moment when we've been in a...
Guest:In a truck stop or an airport or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and 40 something years later.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:These bands are still together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we're still doing what we love to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we're on the same bill.
Guest:Could have been on any of the other nights for the way life works.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But we're on the same bill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You tell me that's like, you know.
Guest:Beautiful.
Guest:That is beautiful.
Guest:Full circle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the only way you can describe it, you know, because.
Guest:You look at a band like Priest, we've been making metal for over 50 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's no, you know, again, in show business, you're going to start your career on blah, blah, blah, and your career will end on blah, blah, blah.
Guest:There is no, the point from the beginning to the end is never set in stone.
Guest:The end is never set in stone.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:If you'd have told me that I was going to be screaming my tits off at 72.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What are you smoking?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Maybe I will take that final drink.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's just too remarkable.
Guest:And then we go off into this, you know, serenity prayer vibe.
Guest:And it's just beautiful, man.
Guest:I don't think you can really understand this until you've lived life.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:You've got to live life before.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Well, that's what I've noticed, too, about getting older is that it almost seems like you've lived more than one life because you can look back and be like, who the fuck was that guy?
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I have to assume that you listen to some records and you're like, oh, my God.
Marc:You know, I can generally see, you know, again, it's a wholly different thing.
Marc:I used to be afraid to look at my old stuff, but I'm like, oh, that's me.
Marc:It's just not me now, but it's me.
Marc:And in our brains, you're like, I'm not like that guy anymore.
Marc:Yeah, you hear that.
Marc:It's you.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:I can look way back.
Guest:I can be more kind of at ease and comfortable with,
Guest:with referencing something that i did 30 years ago yeah than i did like five years ago it's i'm too close to that sure i'm too critical of that right moment yeah i can look back at that guy yeah and go look at that guy man stumping around and jumping around and screaming and devil horns on the motorcycle you know living the life yeah i can look at that and that's just but the closer he gets i'm like fuck that you shit
Guest:Listen to you, that was a B-sharp flat minor too low, you know.
Guest:You didn't pronounce the word properly, you know.
Guest:Look at the way you're standing, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Very hard on yourself.
Marc:But it is...
Marc:It's sort of interesting.
Marc:You intimated in one of the books that, you know, and I have this feeling, too, like I'm not nostalgic because I don't look back and feel like I had a lot of great memories necessarily.
Marc:You know, I had, I think, good times, but I feel better now about myself and about my life than I ever have.
Guest:I used to hate that word nostalgia.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And now I embrace it because I understand what it means.
Guest:I understand the emotion that's connected to what that word implies.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:Well, that 50-year-old guy that's...
Guest:with the Bud Light and his place of fucking breaking the law.
Guest:That's nostalgia.
Guest:That's nostalgia, you know?
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And I love it.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:You do.
Guest:You know, it's not the best kind of nostalgia, but I'll take it, yeah.
Marc:So it's going to be interesting.
Marc:I hope it goes well.
Marc:I hope you have time to talk to what's left of ACDC from when you knew them.
Guest:Angus is still there, you know.
Guest:What a great guitar player, too.
Guest:Now, would you call them metal?
Guest:No, I wouldn't.
Guest:I would call them rock.
Guest:I'd call them hard rock to some extent.
Guest:But they are unique in the sense of...
Guest:You say that band's name and the songs start playing in your head and there is no other band that sounds like ACDC.
Marc:They got that drive.
Marc:It's a brand.
Guest:It's a brand.
Guest:And I don't mean that in a throwaway thing.
Guest:It's a brand.
Guest:It's a sound.
Guest:It's ACDC, you know?
Guest:And...
Guest:And Angus never messed with that.
Guest:He never went off into different opportunities.
Guest:He was happy with what he's got, you know.
Guest:And I love that.
Guest:I love that commitment and that tenacity to stay as you are.
Guest:Because again, you know, it's that Sylvester Stallone, we only want you as Rocky.
Guest:That's the public perception of...
Marc:That you have to live with.
Marc:And I think they always sort of knew it.
Marc:Like, you know, when someone asked them about, like, there was a question about the new record, and I think there was an answer on behalf of Angus or Malcolm or somebody who was like, we've been making the same record for the last ten records.
Marc:What do you ask?
Guest:We just rearrange the notes differently, put a few different words in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's great, you know, it's like comfort food.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Guest:Well, have fun at that thing.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:It was good talking to you.
Marc:I'll be back.
Marc:I'll be back.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Great guy, right?
Marc:Biblical comes out in paperback on November 7th.
Marc:And of course, you can get all the Judas Priest albums wherever you get your music.
Marc:Hang out for a minute.
Marc:Hey, if you enjoyed all the Arnold episodes last week, you should check out episode 1095, 1095 with comedian Dan Levy, who tells a great story about pitching a movie for Arnold.
Guest:Went to Arnold Schwarzenegger's house, pitched it to him, and that was an insane experience.
Guest:Was he governor?
Guest:He was not governor, but his essence was insane.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, just like, you know, this is a guy whose voice has been in my head since, I don't know, ever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he is wearing, like, Lululemon, and he looks older, and he's eating chicken.
Guest:He's like, I hear you're so funny.
Guest:I'm like, no way.
Guest:You see my seashell special?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's no way you know that I'm funny.
Guest:And then we like sit down and he's petting his Labrador retriever as I'm pitching him the movie.
Guest:And I look up and there's an oil painting of him petting the same Labrador retriever.
Guest:And I was like, my life is insane.
Guest:I'm pitching with my buddy, Steve Aslone.
Guest:And then we are like getting to the end and Steve has like the emotional part.
Guest:And in the middle of that, like Arnold's really looking at us like, okay, this is good.
Guest:And then a fucking horse walks in the kitchen.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Named Whiskey.
Marc:A horse?
Guest:An actual like horse animal.
Guest:And he stands up and he goes, Whiskey, what are you doing?
Guest:You're ruining the pitch.
Guest:And we're like, what is it?
What?
Marc:and we're just everyone's like all his other people are just like nodding like okay yeah whiskey's here we're like no no no it's a horse in the house you can listen to that episode right now for free and whatever app you're using it's episode 1095 if you want every episode of wtf ad free sign up for wtf plus just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on wtf plus
Marc:And now I will have Brendan pull a riff from the archive, because I'm guitar-less.
Guest:guitar-less
Guest:guitar solo
Guest:guitar solo
Guest:guitar solo
.
.
.
Guest:Boomer.
Guest:Monkey.
Marc:La Fonda.
Live.
Guest:Live.
Guest:Thank you.