Episode 1455 - Jim Gaffigan
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it today an old friend of mine and an old friend of the show's mr jim gaffigan is here this is actually and i didn't realize this until brendan brought it to my attention
Marc:This is Jim's seventh appearance on the show.
Marc:And that's got to be more than most.
Marc:And there's a reason for it.
Marc:I always want to talk to Jim.
Marc:He's fun to talk to.
Marc:He's a good hang.
Marc:It's always good to catch up.
Marc:Him and I, I remember when he started.
Marc:He's got a new comedy tour kicking off called Barely Alive.
Marc:He's releasing his 10th standup special, which I watched called Dark Pale.
Marc:And he set out to be a little dark.
Marc:And he did it.
Marc:And if you know Jim for as long as I have, or if you know him at all, you know, he's a relatively dark fella.
Marc:And we talked about that.
Marc:But I like seeing Jim.
Marc:I swear to God, I remember when he had a lot more hair, but it was still this kind of white color.
Marc:He almost looked albino.
Marc:He was kind of stocky in a different way.
Marc:Now he's kind of grown into it.
Marc:He's become a very good actor.
Marc:But I think he was, in my recollection, maybe an ex-football player in high school.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But it's always fun to hang out with Jim.
Marc:And I always get a few laughs.
Marc:For those of you who are around, Dynasty Typewriter tomorrow, July 25th.
Marc:July 25th.
Marc:I'll be at Largo on Thursday, July 27th.
Marc:I'll be in Salt Lake City Wiseguys on August 11th and 12th for four shows.
Marc:I'm at Helium in St.
Marc:Louis on September 14th through 16th for five shows.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Five?
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Then I'm at the Las Vegas Wiseguys on September 22nd and 23rd, also four shows.
Marc:And in October, I'm at Helium in Portland, Oregon on October 20th through 22nd.
Marc:You can go to WTF pod.com for tickets.
Marc:So look, I've been watching a lot of movies because in the back of my head, I think I'm studying folks.
Marc:I think I'm studying.
Marc:I'm hoping that after these strikes, uh,
Marc:That me and Lipsight settle on a deal to option his book and we can start putting together a production and I can direct my first movie.
Marc:And I know this about myself when I have something that might happen in the future, something that I want to happen in the future, something that I think is possible that could happen.
Marc:You know, I kind of start in the back of my brain doing a certain amount of homework, but I don't I don't acknowledge it is that I think that's to protect myself from disappointment.
Marc:But I'm finding a zone and I've been very mildly obsessed.
Marc:with these Mike Lee movies, Mike Lee on the BBC, not the Mike Lee movies proper, but these movies, I guess he did for the BBC.
Marc:They're, they're on criterion there.
Marc:It's called Mike Lee at the BBC.
Marc:And there must be like seven or eight full films there.
Marc:And they just blow my fucking mind.
Marc:the amount of space he affords actors and the depth of the characters that unfold.
Marc:I don't know how much of it is improvised or how much of it is scripted, but he uses many of the same actors and they're a little grittier than his later movies.
Marc:I don't know what he shot them on, but they all revolve around...
Marc:Kind of most of them around working class and middle class British life.
Marc:Many of them take place in the 70s.
Marc:But there's one on there called Grown Ups, which is just amazing about this young couple who moves into their first house and they just happen to be living next to one of their teachers from school.
Marc:which was an amazing movie.
Marc:Then there was another one about a bunch of postal workers and just the sort of intrigue and stuff that revolves around their relationships and one of them who is engaged in relationships with a couple of the other's wives.
Marc:And it's just...
Marc:It all unfolds in a very naturalistic way.
Marc:There's something about cinematic naturalism that you really don't see too much anymore.
Marc:I think you see it in the rawness of the Safdies, but it is pretty amplified there.
Marc:But there is something about the kind of raw, grainy naturalism of the early Mike Lee stuff that is so provocative and so human.
Marc:And I really can't stop watching it.
Marc:And I know that in the back of my head, I'm trying to figure out a frame of reference and a way to kind of know what my own personal vision might be when it comes to working with film, because I've had some experience directing my own show.
Marc:But that's not really directing and I didn't have the proper time and, you know, we were in a rush.
Marc:But, you know, kind of figuring out how I want the thing to look so I can align myself with the proper DP and try to get it.
Marc:But obviously all this stuff is on hold because the strike is happening and we can't get at it.
Marc:And I did go out to the picket line on Friday.
Marc:Tim Heidecker reached out to me and said, let's get some funny folks out there to support the cause and support the background actors and the writers and everything that needs to be supported so we can all be fairly compensated into the future in a way that is fair.
Marc:And they can't just take our ghosts and run them into the ground for infinity.
Marc:And they can't just generate scripts.
Marc:uh, without human beings involved in, uh, among other things, but it was kind of fun.
Marc:It was a hot out and the comedic presence that I noticed there, it was, uh, Heidegger was there, uh, Eric Wareheim, Wareheim.
Marc:So Tim and Eric were there, uh, uh, uh,
Marc:Nick Thune was there.
Marc:Chelsea Peretti was there.
Marc:Hannah Einbinder was there.
Marc:John Daly was there.
Marc:Reggie Watts was there.
Marc:I saw Jeff Bainer, the director.
Marc:He was there.
Marc:We're all sweating it out, walking around in circles.
Marc:And, you know, not to bring it to a different place and not to make it about myself, but I was out there for about two hours plus and got in over 11,000 steps.
Marc:And I don't really pay attention to steps, but I forgot that my phone did it.
Marc:So, yeah, I got my exercise in for the day.
Marc:But that was obviously not why I was there because there was probably funner ways to do that.
Marc:But I did notice it and I got a good sweat going.
Marc:But I felt correct in being present.
Marc:I know I talk about it a lot and I'm vocalizing my support here on the show.
Marc:But I thought it was important to get out there, and I might get out there again.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:It was a big presence.
Marc:We were out in front of Netflix and a lot of people.
Marc:And it looked like it got bigger after I took off.
Marc:I'm not going to personalize that.
Marc:But, yeah.
Marc:But I did it.
Marc:I did it and it was fine.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:It was great to feel part of the community of writers and actors.
Marc:So in other news, Kit is adopting a kitten.
Marc:But there's a backstory to this.
Marc:There's a backstory.
Marc:So here's the deal.
Marc:Many of you know about my kitten, Charlie Beans Roscoe.
Marc:Charles Beans Roscoe.
Marc:Charlie, Chachi, Charles.
Marc:Great cat.
Marc:Now, if you're not up to speed on that, there was a feral mother who had a litter, and they all ended up under my back steps.
Marc:They kind of started out next door at my neighbor's house, Andrea.
Marc:And apparently this feral mother moved them under my steps.
Marc:And we didn't know what to do.
Marc:It's hard to know what to do.
Marc:You want to let the kittens have the time with the mother, then trap them and get them fixed.
Marc:Hopefully get them all fixed if that's possible.
Marc:So they were under my steps and she was moving them.
Marc:She had clearly moved five or six kittens from...
Marc:Andrea's back garage area to under my steps.
Marc:And I think she was moving them again.
Marc:And she had left Charlie, who was about two, three weeks old and needed to be nursed.
Marc:So I took Charlie and gave him to Kit, who did the nursing.
Marc:And now I've got this crazy, amazing cat, Charlie, who is, they're all friends.
Marc:Charlie, Buster, and Sammy, my other cats, are friends, right?
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I had no idea.
Marc:She moved the rest of them under the deck and then they disappeared.
Marc:So you don't know what happens.
Marc:You assume the worst with feral families.
Marc:And I felt bad.
Marc:We couldn't make it happen.
Marc:Couldn't get them fixed.
Marc:Couldn't get under the deck.
Marc:And then the next thing I knew they were all gone.
Marc:So cut to a few weeks ago, I, uh,
Marc:I hear from Andrea next door, and she said, I don't know if it was her niece or her, I think it was her niece, lives a few blocks from here, you know?
Marc:And she said that the mother was back with a new litter and that two of Charlie's siblings were still with her.
Marc:So Charlie just turned a year.
Marc:So that's crazy, especially with the number of coyotes around here, the coyotes.
Marc:But they were able to trap the mother and to get all the kittens fostered and fixed.
Marc:And all of them, they all got fixed.
Marc:But it's a miracle.
Marc:I mean, this is like almost a year later that these cats survive.
Marc:It's mind-blowing.
Marc:But anyway...
Marc:the woman who's fostering some of the kittens now has basically what are Charlie beans, half brothers and sisters.
Marc:So all of a sudden Kit gets it in her head.
Marc:She needs Charlie's half sibling and she reaches out to the woman.
Marc:And now this is in process that she's going to get Charlie's half sister.
Marc:And it's a big deal.
Marc:She's very excited.
Marc:A matter of fact, it's all she talks about.
Marc:And look,
Marc:I get it.
Marc:You know, she wants like Kit and I talk a lot about, you know, not wanting kids.
Marc:I always check in with that because I definitely don't want them.
Marc:But, you know, given the nature of the relationship and our age difference, I want to make sure she is, you know, on the same page as me because I don't want to deny her the kind of wherewithal to go out and get a kid.
Marc:But she's pretty clear on it.
Marc:But the kitten thing, there's an excitement around it that is almost like a kid.
Marc:And that's just who she is.
Marc:So now we're going to extend the family.
Marc:She's going to have Charlie's half-sister over at her place.
Marc:And it's kind of sweet.
Marc:Kind of sweet how it all comes around.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Full circle.
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:My empathy for animals has deepened profoundly.
Marc:And I don't know if it has something to do with not eating them.
Marc:But I really find myself a little crazy with the animals and with plants.
Marc:Not so much with bugs.
Marc:But for some reason, I get attached to plants.
Marc:Isn't that weird?
Marc:Do they feel pain?
Marc:Is there studies on that?
Marc:I don't know, people.
Marc:All I know is that we are in the Anthropocene epoch.
Marc:They're trying to date the beginning of that when humankind started to influence humans.
Marc:I guess, adversely, the environment.
Marc:They're looking at the beginning of that being in the mid 50s when radioactive sediment first started to gather on everything like a fine particle dust all over the planet.
Marc:But as far as epochs go, it feels like this is going to be a short one and there is not going to be anybody to contextualize it historically in the future.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:Everybody good?
Marc:There you go.
Marc:So Jim Gaffigan is here.
Marc:His new stand-up special is produced by Comedy Dynamics.
Marc:It's called Dark Pale.
Marc:And his stand-up tour is going through the rest of the year, including headlining dates with Jerry Seinfeld.
Marc:You can go to jimgaffigan.com for tickets.
Marc:And this is me catching up with my buddy Jim.
Marc:Lately, I've been experimenting with feeling like everything's okay for me.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:Brian?
Marc:Have you ever tried it?
Guest:I mean, I don't know.
Guest:I feel like... I mean, there is part of me that's like... With this special... Like, I know I saw you at the store, and there is like... When did you see me?
Marc:Oh, that wasn't that long ago.
Guest:We didn't talk too much.
Marc:What was that, a month ago?
Marc:Maybe a month ago.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Where I'm kind of like, all right, well...
Guest:You know, like, there is such enjoyment in writing and creating.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, like, intellectually, I know that there's so much more to life.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Intellectually, but emotionally, you seem like pretty, at the very least, overloaded.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm definitely overloaded.
Marc:I mean, the whole concept of—
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Guest:I definitely feel like.
Guest:But the process of working on, you know, stand up or acting is like I don't have like I don't play golf.
Marc:No, I don't either.
Marc:And, you know, I don't.
Marc:It's odd.
Marc:That I don't resent it.
Marc:You don't resent golf?
Marc:No, I don't resent people who play it.
Marc:Like, I resent a lot of things.
Marc:Like, even though I've done okay for myself, I find room to resent specific people for specific reasons.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And usually it all revolves around, like, how come I didn't get that?
Marc:Even though I've gotten enough and I'm fine.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But some part of that never goes away.
Marc:And I also resent people because I think they're terrible.
Right.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:But that's the whole difference is like when you come to the you're like, oh, I guess I'm not jealous of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're just monsters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they do well.
Guest:They're successful monsters.
Guest:Because it's also it's not.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:It's not fair, which is annoying.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I don't even know what fair is in this business.
Marc:I mean, like I somehow let that go.
Marc:But in life.
Marc:In life.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but then you just kind of – you got to kind of like hope for schadenfreude or like that.
Marc:Or else sort of rest reassured that everybody dies alone.
Marc:Yes, that's a beautiful sentiment.
Marc:Right?
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:I just – what bothers me is I just – as I get older, I really don't understand people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, you think people are all right.
Marc:And then, like, you see stuff that goes on.
Marc:It's like, they're definitely not.
Marc:There's a lot of people.
Marc:They volunteered for their brains to be broken in a certain way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or they don't deal with their shit.
Marc:And everyone has to pay for it somehow.
Marc:And they're just wandering around like lone assassins.
Marc:And some of them are lone assassins.
Marc:Yeah, I think it's incredibly sad.
Guest:Because I feel like...
Guest:Most of my life, I've always had kind of this view of, well, I don't get that.
Guest:It's like among comedians, it's like different type of comedy.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:It's not for me.
Guest:They're decent people.
Guest:That's how I've applied that to all people.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But we're in this time where there are people that...
Guest:are you know i you know it's unfair to say mentally ill because it's like but like there's not one or two there's a huge amount of people that are like i'm with satan yeah but but they think they were jesus yes
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And that's why it's sad.
Guest:That's why I'm not even angry.
Guest:I'm sad because it's like these are decent people.
Guest:These people love their kids.
Guest:They love their community.
Marc:I don't think anyone fully acknowledged or assesses the power of the phone.
Marc:I don't think anyone fully assesses the power of the Internet and how just like vulnerable people are mentally.
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:It's like, you know, with the torrent of shit that we dump into our heads every day to think that we can just... It's okay.
Marc:We have a handle on that.
Marc:It's crazy.
Guest:By the way, I have, you know, five kids.
Guest:And I have, as of right now, three teenagers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And a 10 and a 12-year-old.
Guest:And the impact of the phone is...
Guest:I think people say it's the pandemic, and some of it that accelerates it, but the impact of the phone and social media is...
Guest:It's a tsunami.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Every day.
Guest:It's not like, oh, you know, teenage boys or teenage girls.
Guest:It's like, no.
Guest:They had it, I think, for generations.
Guest:We looked.
Guest:Parents used to look at teenagers and go, I used to walk 10 miles to school.
Guest:And teenagers are like, well, you know, you had it harder.
Guest:And now teenagers have it harder.
Yeah.
Guest:from a mental wellness standpoint than we did.
Guest:Like, I don't think, I mean, you and I are crazy.
Guest:But like, and you know, we've, and the point of, if you're just listening, the reason we were talking about the calmness is because 30 years ago, if you had met Mark and I, you'd be like, these guys are going to kill themselves.
Guest:We were in trouble.
Guest:But like,
Guest:The thing is, if we were subjected to what social media?
Guest:These kids are not compared to who's cool in their high school.
Guest:They're compared to everyone on the internet.
Guest:And they're not hit on by like that weird guy that lives down the block.
Guest:They're hit on by everyone.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they're bullied by everyone.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And they're taking in information.
Marc:They're learning.
Marc:They've watched probably by the time they're 17 more porn than I've watched in my lifetime.
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:How can that be good?
Guest:And by the way, it's like –
Guest:There is, you know, like, I think our relationship with porn, we forget how weird it was at the beginning.
Marc:It was like, the first time I saw porn, it was probably, it changed my life almost more than anything else ever.
Marc:Like, you just, whether it's probably junior high, someone had a page of something.
Marc:A Playboy.
Guest:Yeah, but like I saw... The worst dad's Playboy.
Marc:Or a hardcore porn was, like, I remember when I first saw how a cock went into the thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I was like, oh, my God.
Marc:I'm never going to be the same.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think men are so dumb.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, as a species or a gender or whatever, we are so dumb.
Guest:So we watch a video, and we see something, and we're like, that's how it is.
Marc:I thought that for most of my life.
Marc:I have to be that guy.
Marc:That's it.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:That's what happens.
Marc:That's how I have to do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But when you say –
Marc:Because I watched a special last—are you still chewing Nicotino?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I'm back on the lozenges.
Guest:Oh, lozenges.
Guest:That feels a little bit more dignified, less chompy.
Marc:Well, it's less chompy, and you don't end up just chewing it even when it's dead.
Marc:You put these in, you got a little more control over them, and you get a bonafide feeling of wellness.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:It's not just sort of like a maintenance thing.
Guest:Like I can sort of rely on these to get me a little bit queasy every time I put one in my... You know, I went like during the lockdown, I went like six months where I didn't have any sugar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I was like, and then of course I was doing a box of nicotine gum a day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, you know what?
Guest:There's probably like tons of sugar in this.
Marc:Well, you do the coated ones?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The one with the cancer causing stuff.
Marc:No, no.
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:I do regulars.
Marc:Like, oh, so they're not sweetened because they make them unsweetened.
Marc:Like, is there coating on that?
Marc:Is there candy on it?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Yeah, no, I don't think there's sugar in that.
Guest:But when I do shows in Canada, that's all they have on it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, so because the intellectual dissatisfaction thing, I mean, you see, like this special I think is a little different.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Like the dark pale was an intention, right?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:It wasn't.
Marc:You're like, I'm going to—because I think something shifted in you over, it seems like, the pandemic and the Trump presidency to where you're like, I think I have to talk about real things a little bit.
Marc:No, yeah.
Guest:I think it's a maturity, and I think it's also self-assignment.
Guest:But was that a big— And your last special has dark in the title, too, right?
Guest:Bleak to dark from bleak to dark.
Guest:Bleak to dark, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you've always been kind of a nihilist.
Guest:But for me, it is stand-up specials or material is assignments.
Guest:And sometimes when I say assignments, it's like life being thrust on you.
Guest:So it's like the tragedy that you experienced.
Guest:It's going through the pandemic.
Guest:It's realizing that...
Guest:You know, it's like, you know, every day we were watching.
Guest:It's like, here's the tally of people dying.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And also just you're watching sort of the unfolding of our biggest fears.
Marc:And there's so much of it that we're powerless over.
Marc:So you sort of have to have this kind of very conscious denial.
Marc:Like it's not even like it's not happening.
Marc:That's not the denial.
Marc:It's sort of like, well, there's literally nothing I can do at this point.
Marc:but ride this out and try to be decent and have as much fun, if you're capable, as I can.
Marc:I can't imagine what it would be like to have kids, but I remember during the pandemic where, because you're one of these entertainers that you have a very wide swath of
Marc:of, uh, you know, regular people who enjoy the funny and, you know, and you've delivered for years.
Marc:And at some point I, I, I kind of remember it on Twitter or, or, or something where, you know, you stepped out of, of, of your persona a bit to make some statements about how you felt about the world.
Marc:And I knew that you had to weigh the idea that like, well, I'm going to lose some dumb dumbs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, how did that pan out?
Marc:Do you feel like you lost some dum-dums?
Guest:Well, I, you know, maybe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I do think that...
Guest:There was – but it's like I was – I'm looking at my kids.
Guest:We're watching all this news.
Guest:George Floyd, just the pandemic, the mishandling of that.
Guest:Just like environmental disaster after disaster.
Guest:Looking at Trump really being neck and neck with Biden.
Guest:I'm like, what is going –
Guest:I guess I'm an optimist.
Guest:I just assume people will be like, all right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Old timey.
Guest:And so I reached the point where I was like, I also, you know, I was having dinner every night with my kids and I didn't want to look at them.
Guest:And, you know, if the democracy did fall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And or, you know, things, you know, they started rounding up certain people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't want to be like I didn't do anything.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:So I knew it because I also think that like nobody, no actor or comedian or athlete is going to no one's going to be like, oh, who's LeBron want me to vote for?
Guest:No one's doing that.
Guest:But there is something.
Guest:I wish they would.
Marc:Yeah, that would be almost better than whatever the hell is going on.
Guest:But but there is something to be said for.
Guest:I mean, you know, not that I was even going to talk about LeBron, but like I think he's done a lot of good with his his, you know, platform.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And but there is consequences.
Guest:He probably would be twice as rich if he kept his mouth shut.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But he also can look at his children and look himself in the mirror.
Marc:Well, how do you do, like, what's your, like, I don't have kids, and there's no regrets.
Marc:I'm thrilled about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm jealous.
Marc:Yeah, I'm completely selfish, and I can kind of do whatever I want every day.
Marc:It's not, I'm not out there kind of hang gliding or anything, but I, you know, there's never a moment where I can't just say, like, no, I'm not going to do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, okay, I'll do that.
Guest:Yeah, you're essentially an empty nester.
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what happens because we all have friends that like their kids have moved out and then they're like, all right, I guess I'm going to go out to dinner wherever I want.
Marc:Or else they come back around going like, hey, remember me?
Marc:You want to hang out?
Marc:No, I don't know.
Marc:You're going to have to earn it.
Marc:You cut me loose pretty hard after that first kid.
Marc:You're fucking out.
Marc:Yeah, but it's so hard.
Guest:These friends, they need you after you deal with teenagers.
Marc:I'm joking.
Marc:There's not many, but I do feel that.
Marc:All of a sudden, these guys are showing up to do comedy again who haven't been doing comedy in years because they're just sitting at home.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Marc:And I don't know if the world needed Mike Binder, but he's back.
Guest:Well, I think I think that I don't even know if he has kids, but like Mike Binder has like if he has kids in his early 20s when they were teenagers, he was like, I got to stay here.
Guest:Make sure that they're leaving and doing this.
Guest:It's like it's, you know, you're getting a master's degree in humiliation.
Guest:That's what parenting is.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, and I think it is humbling.
Marc:And I think there's, you know, it does sort of round you out as a person generally.
Marc:And I think that, you know, if you're a good hearted, responsible person, you bring good kids in the world or you try.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like the other night, you know, somebody said something.
Marc:I mean, it's sticking with me, you know, because I have a girlfriend and, you know, she's this one is a bit younger than me.
Marc:And, you know, I've talked to her over and over again about like, look, I'm not going to be the guy that like, you know,
Marc:takes away these years if you want to have kids right you know you got to go have kids do that you know we can you know fuck occasionally if you want when you have the kids but I can't do that I'm being a little dark but no but she really actually has processed it and she comes from her own life but she doesn't really want them and I believe her because I pester her about it right
Marc:But I was in the green room at the comedy store and Christina P was there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I brought it up.
Marc:We were talking about not having kids.
Marc:And she says, have some kids.
Marc:And I'm like, no, I really I don't think that I do.
Marc:I didn't have kids for a reason.
Marc:I'm not judging anyone who has kids.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm a selfish, panicky, angry, emotionally needy person.
Marc:And I, you know, and I don't I just and I don't I never think I should have had kids.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's what's going on in my brain.
Marc:And then she said, grow up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like what the fuck is – how is that a justification?
Guest:How does that make sense?
Guest:It doesn't make sense.
Guest:But there is something of – like I do have an observation that I did in a CBS Sunday commentary about Father's Day where I was like –
Guest:Well, my whole attitude, let me set it up, is that like I do think – I think there should be more people that say I don't want to have kids that don't have kids than people that are like, well, there's this pressure to knock a kid out that I don't want.
Guest:But, you know, and I had this observation because I do think that parenting is –
Guest:So hard.
Guest:And I complain about it a lot.
Guest:And I get a lot from my kids.
Guest:That's unbelievable, right?
Guest:But the whole thing is that there is something.
Guest:I think it's jealousy.
Guest:It's jealousy.
Guest:Because it's like some of it is just...
Guest:You've signed up.
Guest:If you're going to show up, which Christina P. obviously is, you're going to be annoyed.
Guest:And so when you see someone that doesn't have kids, I mean, there are friends that we've known that have all this material about not having kids.
Guest:And then when they're 40...
Guest:You see them pregnant.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:You're like, oh, that's interesting.
Guest:Or older.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so it's like, but there is something about, there's some jealousy, but it is a different task.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not taking on that responsibility.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which, by the way, I don't think anyone should be, you know, required to do.
Guest:But it is a little bit of I went through NOM and you didn't.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My number wasn't pulled.
Guest:You're a draft dodger.
Guest:I totally am.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And by the way, it's, you know, there's a difference between like Trump getting a deferment.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:A couple of times and someone being too young to go to Vietnam.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:But I assume that you have five of them, and that wasn't just Catholicism.
Guest:No.
Guest:It was a choice.
Guest:Well, some of it is just you're married, you're in a relationship.
Marc:Yeah, but a lot of people have two.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, some of it is... How is she doing, your wife?
Guest:She's good.
Guest:No cancer?
Guest:Everything's good?
Guest:No, everything's good.
Guest:But some of it is...
Guest:You know, I mean, we've all been in relationships.
Guest:You know, it's like, it's also what keeps your partner happy.
Marc:I know, but here's the other thing.
Marc:It's like, here's what I know.
Marc:I'm doing my... But I love my kids.
Marc:No, I know you do.
Marc:I genuinely believe that.
Marc:I think that you live for your kids, despite the fact that you're never home.
Marc:So...
Marc:I get it.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But I'm going I'm doing I'm redoing my will.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I've got you know, I've got no kids.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So so it becomes like I very much realize that especially when you have five and at the level you're used to living that you you know, you have to work.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You've saved a lot of money.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:But but but and you like working.
Marc:But I didn't you know, there's part of me that is like there's part of me.
Marc:I don't I don't I feel like I can do nothing fairly confidently.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I don't mind it.
Guest:Do you?
Guest:No, well, I mean, doing nothing.
Guest:What do you mean by doing nothing?
Marc:Well, I mean, like, I don't feel like, look, I don't operate at the same level you do.
Marc:We're different types of performers.
Marc:We've, you know, like last week I went to dinner with like Mulaney, Kroll.
Marc:Spade, Jezelnik, and Joe Mandy.
Marc:I never hang out with anybody outside of comedy clubs, and it was just a show business storytelling thing.
Marc:And I realized, you know, I'm talking to Kroll, and a couple of the guys are talking about doing Vegas, and I'm like, I would never do... No one even think about doing Vegas.
Marc:If I'm going to go to Vegas, now there's a little club off of the strip that seats 200 people in the arts district.
Marc:I'm like, I'll go there.
Marc:But there's no part of me that thinks like...
Marc:They're going to put a poster of me in the casino, and people in that casino are going to be like, I love that guy.
Guest:See, but I disagree with that premise.
Guest:I think you totally would so.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yes, of course.
Marc:So this is just insecurity?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, I think it's also we've been doing this for so long that 25 years ago you have information that you're applying to today.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it's like my question would be like, would you enjoy it?
Marc:Well, I think I'd feel these types of pressures that I, you know, because I still do comedy in my own way, and I've done okay with it.
Marc:I have people.
Marc:But, like, I watched your special last night, and I'm getting a lot of laughs.
Marc:But I realize that, you know, your discipline around how you do comedy, your ethic, your work ethic, is very much, like, the thing I noticed the most, because I've watched the last couple of specials, I always watch the specials, is that...
Marc:you know, all your jokes are equally as good as the last, right?
Marc:And you don't think in terms of a big closer.
Marc:Like, it's just at some place around 55 minutes, you're like, all right, and you walk off.
Marc:But that, to me, is like, it's beautiful because that's the specific job.
Marc:It's like, I've given you enough
Marc:It was all pretty solid.
Marc:I'm going to go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And but, you know, like, this is the job, you know, for me to wrench out an hour and a half, two hours over a year at a new one.
Marc:And I do that.
Marc:It's like life or death.
Marc:And I'm trying desperately to be like, you know, why can't I just lighten up a little bit?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, well, that's I mean, that goes back to our initial thing is like we have.
Guest:We keep doing it.
Guest:There's such joy in putting out a special and a sense of completion.
Guest:But it's also, why can't that be enough?
Guest:For me, for a while there, I was putting out a special a year.
Guest:But there's joy in doing it, but why does it have to...
Guest:And the business is always shifting.
Guest:Like when we started, people weren't doing specials or performing.
Marc:Everyone wasn't doing specials.
Marc:They were still special.
Guest:There was Cosby and, you know, and, uh, you know, Carlin, but like,
Guest:But but but my point is, it's like, what is the next step?
Guest:You know, like what is like like Seinfeld has done a couple of specials, but he doesn't feel the need to he doesn't feel this.
Marc:There's no growth there.
Marc:He's very anti growth.
Guest:Well, no, he is.
Guest:I actually I think he's very much evolved.
Marc:I think someone into what into this guy who says that comedy is just for laughs and it doesn't have any deeper meaning.
Marc:And I've never learned anything from a comic.
Marc:And it's just to read into it is ridiculous.
Marc:And that's our job.
Guest:But I think that that is his purified, kind of absolutist approach to comedy.
Marc:But I'm diametrically opposed to that.
Guest:No, but what I'm saying is, if you look at the Jerry Seinfeld of the late 70s, early 80s, and you look at him now, they're very different.
Guest:Jerry Seinfeld today...
Guest:is much more autobiographical.
Guest:In the 80s, you didn't learn anything about Jerry.
Guest:I'm sure he's aware of that evolution, but I think the greatest compliment to a comic is being able to transcend a decade.
Guest:So being able to go from the 80s to the 2020s, that's pretty significant.
Guest:And so that's why there are these comedians that are like,
Guest:the flavor of the year but then it's it goes away well but i think that speaks to a work ethic more than evolving well it's a work ethic but also being able to like it's not just listening to the audience but it's listening to the culture
Marc:And also, like all his fans, it's rare that if you come to be in a certain way and your fans are kids or college, how do you hold on to them?
Marc:Because they're 40 now and they don't go to comedy.
Marc:But I think Seinfeld— They all moved out of Brooklyn.
Guest:Yeah, or wherever.
Guest:Because they had a couple kids and they moved to Westchester.
Marc:But I think Jerry is so dug into the cultural consciousness that it doesn't matter what age you are.
Marc:You know you're going to get a pro show.
Guest:Yeah, I think that, yes.
Guest:And I think also that what's interesting about Jerry is where he's similar to a 90s comic, which you and I are, is that he is a substance over style guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:no whereas like he's pure substance yeah and but he's evolved whereas like you know the style like you'll see even just on social media there's a lot more crowd work it's all crowd stuff and the whole thing is is that style that's not substance and i'm not criticizing it and by the way it's you know like ian bagg is the best crowd work comedian i've ever seen yes and so it's like i love people that are really remember mike sweeney mike sweeney was amazing he was great he
Guest:It was great.
Guest:And it's not like he's dead either.
Marc:Yeah, but he got out a long time ago.
Marc:I mean, the guys who realized early on that sort of like, you know, trying to be a comedy star who makes money as a stand-up, that's a long shot.
Marc:I'm going to write.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I understand what you're saying.
Marc:But I see this whole new generation of social media driven comedy as just this weird attempt at a cash grab.
Marc:And it's succeeding that there is no organized show business anymore.
Marc:It's it's it's nothing.
Marc:And people who are able or willing.
Marc:to build their own show business are doing it.
Marc:And for better or for worse, I mean, there is some sort of strange tribalization going on with comedy in terms of the show business in the center of the country.
Marc:But it's totally different.
Marc:And what you're saying is...
Marc:In the old model, there's no longevity to a lot of the comics you're seeing unless they figure out how to do stand-up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:For a living.
Guest:Unless they have an exceptional personality.
Guest:You look at Nate, and Nate is like a substance guy.
Guest:The best.
Guest:Right.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:And he's still open for me.
Marc:I love I was obsessed with Nate and we couldn't.
Marc:It's so it's rare that I am as excited as I am about somebody becoming as huge.
Guest:I know what you're thinking before you say it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But but like because, you know, I believed in him and he was he opened for me and he was a nice guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and we are opposites.
Marc:In terms of the lives we live and what we believe in and everything else.
Marc:And like the only thing that I that I get upset about with Nate is I think because of his stature and his and his comedy and where he's at in show business and also where he's at in his personal views in life that like he can't talk to me anymore.
Marc:I don't know if that's true.
Marc:I've tested it a few times.
Marc:I'll text him, and I'll be like, hey, what's up, buddy?
Guest:Oh, I'm sure.
Guest:Yeah, I don't think he would be the type to do that.
Guest:I'm sure.
Guest:I think that's – I don't know.
Guest:It's weird because, like, for comedians, we never see each other.
Guest:And so, like, if you send some text and they're on a plane and they don't see it and it goes down their thing, we interpret it as, like – I remember one time I called – I texted Bill Burr, and I was like –
Guest:And I waited a week and I'm like, I called him.
Guest:I'm like, I can't believe you didn't call me back.
Guest:He goes, I can't believe you didn't text me back.
Guest:He goes, I did text you back.
Guest:So I went back to the text and he did respond because we're babies.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So like, but Nate,
Guest:You know, and you probably met his dad.
Guest:I didn't meet his dad.
Guest:These are solid people.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:And his new special is, you know, he's doing something, and I've talked about it with a couple people, that I've never heard somebody sort of isolate...
Marc:a specific type of Christianity as a phenomenon and, and talk about it.
Marc:Like I, you know, I've heard Jews talk about it for black people talk about, about being black or whatever, but his sort of take on his parents being this sort of new version of born again.
Marc:And then he's like, there are generations of his siblings that as they grow less disciplined, it was very nuanced and it was a, it was actually, you know, kind of a brilliant piece of comedy.
Guest:Yeah, and it was also really a commentary on birth order, right?
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And I'm the youngest of six kids, and my parents, my take was that my parents were completely mentally ill by the time I was a teenager.
Guest:Because they'd been tortured by five teenagers.
Guest:What are you smoking?
Guest:And I'm like, I'm 12.
Guest:I'm just sitting here, but thanks for the idea.
Marc:But I'll also...
Marc:Like I come at it in a way and I've sort of accepted it that, you know, that massive success of a standup, you know, I, you know, I have a good life.
Marc:I make a good living with what I do and I'm doing everything I wanted to do, but I'm not in this upper echelon of people.
Marc:Like I'm not golfing with Jimmy Fallon and Justin Timberlake.
Marc:I don't, well, I don't golf, but I'm never going to find myself in a situation.
Marc:I'm never going to be called by a certain group of people.
Marc:You're like, Hey, they're not sitting around going, wouldn't it be fun to get Marin over here?
Marc:You know, like I,
Marc:So I always see myself as somebody who's not quite, you know, in the fucking game.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that affords me the freedom to resent and judge.
Guest:Well, also to retain some authenticity.
Guest:I have an interesting... I think it's an interesting thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't know if it's a justification for the ceiling I've maybe reached in my career, but my take is that...
Guest:I don't think you ever want—I mean, obviously in my 20s, I wanted to be as big as Letterman or Seinfeld or Jimmy Fallon or Jon Stewart.
Guest:But I think now I'm like, oh, because I think once you touch that sun of that level of fame, it is—
Guest:In a way, there's no going back.
Guest:Look, I'm not saying we don't like attention.
Guest:We go on stage and make strangers laugh.
Guest:We're not normal people.
Guest:But when you are on the cover of Rolling Stone,
Guest:When you are heralded as a modern-day philosopher, I think that seeps in.
Guest:And even when you say, thanks, everyone, I'm done, they all seem to come back after a couple years and go, hey, remember when I said I'm done?
Guest:Anyway, I'm still done, but I'm doing this now.
Guest:And there's nothing wrong with that.
Guest:But it is weird to see...
Guest:And I don't think it's a comment on them.
Guest:I think it's a comment on they touched the sun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they got that flavor for, you know, it's a bad comparison.
Guest:But it's like, is Trump running for president so that he doesn't go to jail?
Guest:Or is he running for president because he likes the attention?
Guest:It's not because he wants to be president.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I think it's because he wants the attention.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Because he tasted...
Guest:And it's not like, oh, I love Air Force One.
Guest:He's a rich guy.
Marc:He tasted being the most powerful person in the world.
Guest:The biggest ego stroke.
Marc:I used to do a bit that never really worked about how he's the only narcissist ever that fully succeeded.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He's like, I am the most important person in the world.
Guest:I'm literally the president.
Guest:He did it.
Guest:Narcissists around the world are like, he nailed it.
Guest:That guy got it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I think there is something.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:Do you feel like you touched the sun?
Marc:No.
Marc:You're just below it.
Marc:Your wings aren't melting.
Marc:You're good.
Guest:No, I'm kind of, you know, I mean, there is also part of me, you know, you and I both love acting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There is the only part of it.
Guest:That where fame or more notoriety or respect would help is in getting acting roles.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That's what I would want.
Guest:But you've acted a lot.
Guest:Yeah, but I feel like there's...
Guest:You know, I mean, I still to this day, whenever I'm doing press, not that we're doing it during a strike, but for a film or a dramatic role, people are always like, what's it like being a comedian acting?
Guest:I'm sure you get this too.
Guest:And you're like, look at my IMDB page.
Guest:I've been doing this for a while.
Guest:But in some ways, it's just their perception.
Guest:They're not wrong.
Guest:They're not lazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But they really know you as a comic.
Marc:A lot of times people just know me as this guy that does all these things.
Marc:They know I'm a comic, you know, but like my acting presence hasn't been so huge.
Marc:Like the role in Glow was, you know, kind of that's a comic's role in a way.
Marc:Like that's not one of those big leaps.
Marc:It's like, why wouldn't you put a comic in that role?
Marc:It wasn't a comic part per se.
Marc:But then like the last thing I did that to Leslie film, you know, that was like an outlier.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, I'm a third of that movie.
Marc:And it was the only time, like you say, that you like acting and you say I like acting.
Marc:But I don't I rarely feel like I have to challenge myself or I get very annoyed waiting.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And so if I'm not like you, like I took a risk with that film in that, you know, I had I did an accent and I did, you know, and I and I was a guy that was different than me.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm going to apply whatever craft I've gleaned from all the actors I've talked to and take a risk here and do this.
Marc:And I felt OK about it.
Marc:And it felt a little more satisfying.
Guest:But.
Guest:Are you bringing up the concentration?
Guest:Because there's the waiting on set, but there's also the concentration.
Guest:Like you have an idea of how you want to execute it.
Guest:And then, I don't know, ADHD or whatever.
Guest:And then it's like 90 degrees.
Guest:You're in New Orleans.
Guest:They're going to shoot Viola Davis' coverage first.
Guest:And now it's your turn.
Guest:And the crew's exhausted.
Guest:Go.
Guest:And you're like, what?
Guest:What?
Guest:I knew what I was doing eight hours ago.
Guest:Is that the waiting you're talking about?
Guest:Or are you just sitting about it?
Marc:Well, I don't know what to do with myself in a trailer.
Marc:And no matter how many movies or TV shows I've done, I get to a point where I'm like, what could they be doing?
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, how long does this take?
Marc:And it's like it's just part of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't know how to use that time constructively.
Marc:But let's get back to this idea of growth in comedy because it seems to me –
Marc:And maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this special...
Marc:Dark Pale, like, you did, you're very self-aware of what you believe the public's perception is of you as a comic.
Marc:Like, you know, as you get older, you're still sort of like, I know, you want food jokes.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I get it.
Marc:Yeah, I get it.
Marc:But I don't know that they're necessarily expecting that.
Marc:But it seems to me that you did some, like, to intentionally, you know, and I did this in a different way, but to intentionally deal with death,
Marc:Like, I'm going to – and do it in the way that you do it.
Marc:That was sort of a departure because you did 10 minutes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was sort of a choice, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's all self-assignment, right?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Self-assignment.
Marc:But you were like –
Marc:You know, I have to deal with these things that are either pressing in my life or because, like, look, food is – everyone knows food.
Marc:And everyone knows, you know, a lot of the cultural points that you're talking about.
Marc:But death and to go into it and to deal with the reality of it is, you know, it's risky.
Guest:It is risky.
Guest:And I think that was one of the things with my wife's medical crisis is –
Guest:I believe that, like, as humans, we live in such denial about the fact that we're going to die.
Guest:And that when we do lose a loved one, that we kind of dip into this reality.
Guest:We kind of, you know, whether we're sitting in a wake or sitting shiva, we kind of look at each other and go, wow, this is crazy.
Guest:People are dead?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we dip out of it and we don't want to hear anything about it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so that was... I learned that when my wife was very ill.
Guest:But, like, I also... I think during the pandemic... And also I lost a couple friends.
Guest:During pandemic?
Guest:During the pandemic.
Guest:From COVID?
Guest:Well, from... Maybe COVID-related.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You mean in terms of that they couldn't get proper medical attention?
Guest:Well, one, it was not medical attention.
Guest:One was kind of...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:There's different things.
Guest:But I also feel like death is this kind of milestone marker in my life.
Guest:It's like the death of my mother, the death of my father.
Guest:Even the death of Geraldo was this big kind of thing where the guy that I started stand-up with.
Guest:And so then when my wife was sick,
Guest:This guy in our building who's a great actor, he was so frustrated with acting.
Guest:He went to nursing school.
Guest:He was his nurse.
Guest:He was her nurse.
Guest:And then I lost this friend that I kind of started stand-up with also.
Guest:She died from cancer.
Guest:So it was like there was this reality.
Guest:Angela Muto, but she went by Shecky Beigelman.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And but you'd recognize.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's kind of been around for like the first time I did a comedy contest.
Guest:We were both in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so but, you know, somebody you've known for a lifetime.
Marc:It's always devastating.
Marc:And dealing with death, like in what you're saying.
Marc:you know that old people die and that your parents are going to die, and that's the natural process of things.
Marc:So when you're at Shiva or at a wake or whatever, and the person was, you know, it was time to die, there's an acceptance to it.
Marc:But when you're dealing with a touch-and-go situation with your wife, and you're sort of in the proximity of potential tragedy, then it becomes sort of...
Marc:overwhelming and your brain wants to know why.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And there's no answer to that.
Marc:So that's a different thing, and that's hard to talk about.
Marc:Yeah, and I think humans are not good with it.
Marc:I think they could be, but I think that there is a lot invested in keeping people –
Marc:Denying death is a prime motivator for, you know, sports equipment, you know, beverages.
Marc:It is really the driving force of capitalism is to keep people, you know, eating and distracted so they're not crying all the time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So there's a cultural.
Guest:It's like consumerism.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You know, it'll cure that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Anything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm the ultimate consumer.
Marc:So there's an argument that you've been talking about death your entire career.
Guest:The Cinnabon is all about death.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It's just people don't interpret it.
Guest:They don't understand it.
Guest:They don't understand it.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:So what is, all right, so you got done with this special.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You start over.
Guest:I think we talked about this in the story.
Guest:You're a little bit like, all right, whatever.
Marc:I'm doing a joke about that right now.
Marc:It's kind of funny about how there's that zone where after you do something huge, within days you're like, oh, fuck.
Marc:I guess I'm not going to do anything again.
Marc:No.
Guest:You become that Ralph Malfe character in Happy Days.
Guest:I lost it.
Marc:Well, right.
Marc:So I say, and I'm sure this has happened to people in history, big people, everybody.
Marc:I'm not comparing myself, but Einstein, for instance.
Marc:I'm sure that after the relativity thing, people are like, what do you got going on now?
Marc:He's like, I just changed the way people look at physics and the universe.
Marc:He's like, yeah, that was four months ago.
Marc:And I say, look, I've been kicking around some numbers and letters, squaring them up, but nothing's sticking, man.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So like I but I understand that.
Marc:I mean, those jokes are an acknowledgement that I get I get what it is.
Marc:But I don't think we work the same way in terms of writing.
Marc:But if I look at my career, you know, whether I want to or not, I every year, year and a half, I've got a new hour and a half.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:And usually if I tape a special, which I've been fortunate to do over the last few years for a long time, that there's about a half hour left over.
Marc:So I can kind of start with that and then kind of build out.
Marc:You know, like I usually walk away from those tapings with a fair amount, at least 20 minutes that can keep me on stage until the other stuff starts filling in.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you sit and write it.
Guest:No, I would say, you know, there's different sections.
Marc:You know, for me, some of it is... How much are you and Jeannie still doing your thing?
Guest:Well, some of it, it's hard when you've got five kids.
Guest:So you don't write together?
Guest:We're lucky to have a conversation.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's not the good old days where I would grab a bottle of wine after I did stand up New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we would sit down.
Marc:And knock around the better punch wines and whatnot.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But for me, it's different.
Guest:Some stuff just comes out.
Guest:You know, all the family, the complaining about my kids, that stuff I don't even have to write.
Guest:I'll just kind of tell a story and someone will be laughing and then I'll just do that on stage.
Guest:And then some of it is, you know,
Guest:kind of the challenge of like in the past, you know, like for me, it was because I was so kind of joke and topic driven.
Guest:I was like, all right, I'm going to tell a story.
Guest:I'm going to tell an embarrassing story.
Guest:I'm going to tell, uh, you know, uh, different things or like, it'll be a topic.
Guest:And it's, I don't know if this happens for you, but like in my, in dark pill, I have, uh,
Guest:this chunk on Starbucks, which sounds like the most generic topic, right?
Marc:Yeah, when you went into it, I'm like, no, he kind of had some filler here.
Guest:But here's the thing.
Guest:But you did a different thing on it.
Guest:What inspired that topic
Guest:Didn't even end up in it.
Guest:And, of course, I filmed the special, and then I have this brilliant observation, which I didn't even see.
Guest:It's like my 14-year-old daughter, my 12-year-old son, they love Starbucks.
Guest:To them, it's everything.
Guest:Starbucks, to them, is like...
Guest:It's McDonald's when we were eight.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It is, you know, or it's it's so mature.
Guest:It's adult.
Guest:It's still cake pop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's the it's just and I missed it.
Guest:And it's consistent.
Guest:It's consistent.
Guest:And it's an utter waste of money.
Guest:And they can get the equivalent of a shake.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:For breakfast.
Guest:And it's specialized for them.
Marc:I think we both – you did that joke.
Marc:And when I came up with it, I knew it couldn't have been original.
Marc:And I remember it was sort of like the muffin joke that you're eating cake for breakfast.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it's just – but the cake pop is ridiculous.
Marc:That's clearly – yeah.
Guest:But it's just – But they like them, huh?
Guest:Because I go to Starbucks and I'm like, who the fuck eats the food here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I'm only at Starbucks if I have to.
Guest:The cake pop is like two bites and it's not cheap.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you give that to a 10 year old.
Guest:It's like they're.
Marc:But it's so funny that you bring that up because like I'm watching the special and, you know, and I always get laughs when I watch you and I like watching you because there are not a lot of people that can that make me laugh, you know, because I we're comics.
Marc:We get numb to it.
Marc:But as I get older, I find I'm laughing more because I've let some stuff go.
Marc:And there's people that do a different type of comedy than me that, like, you know, I'm ready to laugh.
Marc:You know, you, Nate, like, I love Maria Bamford's a different animal.
Marc:But so, like, you do the death pit and then, you know, the diarrhea stuff, which I enjoyed.
Guest:Always some quality diarrhea, Chuck.
Yeah.
Guest:That's from every special.
Guest:All 10 specials have diarrhea jokes.
Guest:That's the theme of my life.
Guest:It's just, that's a crutch.
Marc:Diarrhea and running from death.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But when the Starbucks came on, I'm like, there's the old Jim.
Marc:Where are we going to go with the Starbucks?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then it was like a totally different angle.
Marc:So it's fine.
Marc:Because it's still a cultural phenomenon.
Marc:It's huge.
Marc:But there was a period there where you kind of thought like, well, all the Starbucks jokes have been done.
Marc:They've been written.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But then, you know, you do this other thing.
Marc:There's always a turn in your jokes where the laugh happens.
Marc:And oddly, there's one line where I just find myself really kind of laughing.
Marc:I'll watch, and I'll watch the craft, and I'll see the structure, and I enjoy the callbacks.
Marc:But then, like, for some reason, like, go to Taco Bell and eat it on the toilet.
Marc:There's something about that line where it just went over.
Marc:I don't know why.
Guest:I laughed my ass off.
Marc:Oh, thanks.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:Is that an insult?
Marc:No, no.
Guest:You eat the Taco Bell on the toilet.
Guest:It's just, you know, it's like awkward.
Guest:What?
Guest:You know, I mean, comedians, you know, we go on stage and get approval, but we don't want compliments.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:We just want... I'll take him.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I got to tell you this story about Dice.
Marc:I'm in the back hall of the comedy store.
Marc:I'm just talking to Dice because, you know, he's a thing.
Marc:And you always want to talk to Dice because you just want to be in that weird kind of... Hey!
Marc:Marin, you know?
Marc:So he's going on about how he's going to play Madison Square Garden again or whatever.
Marc:Whatever it is.
Marc:He's like...
Marc:And some guy walks up to him.
Marc:I'm talking just him and I. And a guy walks up and goes, excuse me, I'm sorry.
Marc:I don't want to interrupt.
Marc:But Mark, look, I was going to email you, and I just never did it.
Marc:And I'm seeing you now.
Marc:And I just really need to tell you that, you know, your work has really changed my life.
Marc:It got me through a dark place.
Marc:And, you know, I'm real grateful for it.
Marc:And I just wanted to say thank you.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:I'm sorry to interrupt.
Marc:And he walks away and Dice goes, you know, I never get that.
Yeah.
Marc:He says, I get, you're the reason I got thrown out of the house.
Marc:You're the reason I lost my job.
Guest:But I saw sometimes like even hearing that story, I feel like he's doing a bit.
Guest:Yeah, but it was so honest.
Guest:It's also self-effacing.
Guest:But he's like that.
Guest:In an endearing way.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But but like but but he landed like, you know, he listened to that and he didn't diminish it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I think it was an honest acknowledgement.
Marc:That's so funny.
Marc:But so when you're doing like because like this stuff, the whole special is kind of long form stuff.
Marc:But I also found that like when you're going to talk about stuff you believe about.
Marc:Where we're at politically or culturally.
Marc:You know, the environmental stuff is one thing.
Marc:I think we can all mostly agree on that.
Marc:And your bit was sort of spoke to that.
Marc:There used to be guys that would deny it publicly, and then they've kind of given up.
Guest:Well, you know what's interesting about that is I noticed – because when you're touring right before you're about to do the special and you –
Guest:you kind of hear certain laughs in the audience.
Guest:I was hearing something in the audience where the, and you know, and I'm glad that it's there, but like, I'm not glad, but like it was just an interesting take.
Guest:You would hear someone say kind of like, they'd be like, I don't agree with the premise, but I liked the joke.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you're like, all right.
Guest:You know, cause there are people that just are convinced that,
Guest:that, you know, they're like, no, there's no such thing.
Marc:Yeah, as global warming.
Guest:And, you know, and by the way, I'm not a scientist.
Guest:I couldn't defend or explain global warming, but I do believe in global warming.
Guest:But it is interesting that there are people...
Guest:That exists.
Guest:Even even one of those jokes is about the evolution of people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not believing that there's people in an audience.
Guest:And, you know, you're like it's because as a comedian, as you know, you don't want to get the wrong laugh.
Guest:But then on the other side, there's people that I don't even agree with the premise, but I'll go with you.
Marc:Well, that's it.
Marc:But that indicates that someone's beliefs are so deep they're confident in it that they can take the hit.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And that's scary when it comes to global warming.
Guest:It's scary, but it also makes me feel good because we're not as divided.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:You can still have everybody in the room.
Guest:Someone's not standing up and going, you're a globalist.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Globalist.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or, yeah, you're woke or whatever.
Marc:But even like going out with a mask, and I don't know when it was taped, but you didn't need to have the mask on, did you?
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:I mean, no, well, I think it was February.
Guest:No, I didn't need it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was actually, you know, it's weird because, of course, I did it.
Guest:And then I was like, I got to get rid of this mask.
Guest:I've never done a prop.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I was like, all right.
Guest:And then I figured out a way to do the same joke without the mask.
Guest:But it was one of those things where.
Marc:It was jarring because what was amazing about it is he came out wearing it.
Marc:And there was a point where I kind of knew that it was going to be a bit.
Marc:But we've gotten to this point.
Marc:And this is the difference between someone who's tolerant and someone isn't.
Marc:There are people still walking down the street outside wearing masks on.
Marc:And as opposed to like, there's a part of me that's sort of like, the fuck are they doing?
Marc:But there's another part of Mike, well, this is just the way he's going to be now.
Guest:But there's also occasionally you see it on Twitter.
Guest:You know, a friend will be like, I got COVID.
Guest:You're like, wait a minute.
Guest:Isn't it July of 2023?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You know, and also, look, I'll wear a mask during takeoff, like before takeoff.
Guest:Oh, you will.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't do it when I'm in the air, but until the HVAC, until the fucking filters kick in, there's no other place you're going to be where you're that close to that many people for that amount of time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, like, I'm not afraid I'm going to die, but I'm like, I'd rather not get COVID or even a cold.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It is.
Guest:You'd think...
Marc:considering the the i mean there's the consequences the horrible consequences but there's also the inconvenience to your life that i would do that considering how many times i got on a plane that's right well that's what i'm thinking it's like i don't like i don't even know what the protocols are anymore but i still have like i had a woman come on who's an older woman who's immunocompromised and she was a guest and she said would you mind just taking a test i'm like oh yeah oh sure and
Marc:And it's almost this sort of horrendous nostalgia where you were doing that three times a week and freaking out.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Because you still don't really know.
Marc:I feel okay.
Marc:Who the fuck knows?
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Marc:But my point was is that even when you...
Marc:bring up stuff like masks or vaccines or whatever that you are able, you know, I think because of my tone, people think that I am, you know, proselytizing or preaching or being righteous.
Marc:And sometimes I am, but you can kind of fold it in and kind of still play both sides a little bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, well, some of it is, I think, well, there's also hopefully the attitude is we don't know.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or kind of, you know, I'm laughing at myself or it's just so ridiculous.
Guest:Like even religion jokes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It doesn't matter if you believe or not.
Guest:It's just these observations on...
Guest:You know, a set of principles that are believed that and I'm going to deconstruct.
Marc:I've never heard the like I don't think I've been aware.
Marc:I always find it great when people can find the because I talk about Jews all the time and anti-Semitism.
Marc:But I always find that, you know, because historically.
Marc:Stand-ups are usually able to get pretty good chunks out of religion one way or the other.
Marc:And you get to a point where you think like, well, it's all sort of some version of the same thing, but it really isn't.
Marc:Like when I heard Nate sing or if I hear South Asian or Indian guys do jokes about religions that I don't know about, but you're doing a take on Catholicism, which I hadn't heard.
Marc:You know, with the stories, were they saint stories or whatever?
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You know, like just interpreting.
Marc:And I imagine Catholics know those stories, but I don't know those stories.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:And I thought it was pretty funny.
Guest:It's also, it's just like, you know, I don't know about you, but I'm kind of like, what source material can I talk about?
Guest:What can I, what kind of bumps me?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And it's...
Guest:It's sometimes something that we feel very passionate about, and sometimes it's, you know, you don't want to be screaming about croissants.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Now that there's anything wrong with screaming.
Marc:What I've sort of locked into recently is that there's so little...
Marc:feeling in life in terms of how the world is going, where you get satisfied by justice being served.
Marc:So what I find is those screaming about croissants, in a way, it's the way you find justice in the world.
Marc:Like, I'm going to return this because it's not good.
Marc:And the intensity of it is like, there's nothing fair in the world
Marc:But, you know, I'm doing a bit about, you know, considering bringing back blueberries to Whole Foods.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Just because, like, they fucked me.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know, and I'm going to go get justice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, you put them in the fridge, the next day they're covered in mold.
Marc:Yeah, something like that.
Marc:But it was my mistake.
Marc:But it ultimately ends up, like, I'm not that famous.
Marc:But the idea of somebody, you know, a month from now with his friend saying, like, you know, a guy who works at Whole Foods saying, like, do you know this comic, Marc Maron?
Marc:He came in with blueberries that he clearly brought home and washed and then repacked.
Marc:And he was yelling about justice.
Marc:Like, I threw him out.
Marc:I can take the hit.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But in terms of satisfaction around the special, did it feel different?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it felt good.
Guest:I mean, there's always things you regret.
Guest:I mean, the day... It's always like one joke, though, right?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, some of it is like the week before...
Guest:I got a haircut and the guy who normally cuts my hair, he wasn't there.
Guest:So I went to this other place and it's like this Italian barber.
Guest:You're going in without the hair confidence.
Guest:And then I'm like, yeah, this guy, you know, all these Italians from Italy come to this barber and...
Guest:New York, and I'll go to him because I've taken my sons there.
Guest:And so then I call up, and then they're like, yeah, yeah, he's a villain.
Guest:I'm like, because it's in the afternoon.
Guest:And so I go in there, and they're like, oh, they were talking about this other guy.
Guest:They weren't talking about him, and then he just butchered my hair.
Guest:And so when I look at the special, even look at promos for the special, it's just like these, like I don't have much hair left, but it's just these clumps that I'm just like, oh, my God.
Yeah.
Marc:What is going on with my hair?
Marc:That's the one thing that happened in my last special.
Marc:I finally nailed the clothes.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:And I never, I'm one of these idiots that sort of a week before the special, I go buy new things that I never wear again.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, you're like, you think that everyone.
Marc:It's going to be great.
Guest:And everyone's going to be, oh, you wore that and you're special.
Guest:It's like they're not going to remember or they're not going to even see it.
Marc:But no, they do remember.
Marc:They're like a vest.
Marc:Like I have like 20 Conans.
Marc:I went on Conan with leather pants.
Marc:I don't know what – Oh, that's so funny.
Marc:What decision making – what is that?
That's –
Marc:But this time, like, I hired a stylist.
Marc:I wore my own pants, my own boots, my own belt.
Marc:The stylist brought this beautiful leather shirt and a T-shirt.
Marc:And my hair was right.
Marc:And I was just sort of like, I finally, I did it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But now I just get hung up on, like, I fucked up a joke.
Marc:I fucked up, you know.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I only did two of the three beats.
Guest:Well, I feel like, yeah, there's always that.
Guest:But there's also...
Guest:You know, the observation, like the whole thing of I wish I could have done something about Starbucks and how it's all these horrible things we know.
Guest:But like the impact that it has on children is just insane.
Marc:So you feel like you didn't get the full message.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I can't be like, hey, I know I talked about it before, but here's another thing.
Marc:But the balloon story was hilarious because I can't even fucking imagine that.
Marc:Like that the whole observation of sort of like, well, we're here.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But I think people do that on vacation all the time.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You like it just it's like taking a helicopter.
Marc:Mike, I remember when I was I used to do a bit years ago when I was married to Mishno, we went to to Kauai and she got us a helicopter ride in a fucking Huey.
Marc:Like, you're not the, you know, kind of enclosed helicopter where you just go, this is like an army helicopter where the door is open and the only thing that's holding you in is this strap.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And it was crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was like, I didn't know if it was going to crash, but any helicopter can crash and you're not going to survive.
Marc:But it was one of the only times I felt like she really actually loved me because, like, you know, I'm hanging out of this window and I could feel her, like, pulling me in and I'm like, oh, that's nice.
Guest:It makes you realize why, maybe that's why...
Guest:you know, airline pilots are dressed the way they are so that we look at them and they're like, oh, they just came from their job at the Air Force.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because there's no reason why they're, like, dressed like they're in the military.
Guest:They could be in shorts.
Guest:It's just like, but you're like, okay, yeah, that guy, he just came from, like, he was probably a consultant on Top Gun, maybe.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Yeah, but theoretically, yeah, they could be wearing sandals.
Guest:Yeah, it doesn't matter what they're wearing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're just, oh, the guy looks good.
Guest:He looks like a real guy.
Guest:He knows how to do it.
Marc:That guy.
Marc:So with the acting, though, did you ever... Because I sometimes feel like maybe I need a scene study class, but I sometimes feel like maybe I'm beyond that.
Marc:Do you deal with coaches?
Marc:What do you do?
Guest:I don't, but I'm not opposed to it.
Guest:I think that if I...
Guest:had a certain role if i knew the right coach right maybe or if i but we know people that work with coaches you know actors that work and you know and that's that's also the big reveal is like you work with an actor and i don't want to out him but he's like oh yeah my acting coach i go every character and i'm like really yeah like you've been nominated for academy awards and you have an acting coach right
Guest:But there is also, but like even working with a dialect coach is pretty, like Peter Pan, that was terrifying.
Guest:I was doing an English accent and I'm like, the British are so unforgiving of accents.
Guest:I was like, I could really fuck things up here.
Marc:Yeah, you should stay away from Boston and probably English.
Marc:Like I had to do a Texan accent, but the woman said, we're going to do Lubbock.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't even know what that means.
Marc:But it was like, and then they give you the sort of key to how to pronounce things.
Marc:And you kind of load that up before you make your choices.
Marc:And then you make sure you can say the things in the way and lock into that.
Marc:But you seem to have a pre, whatever the word is, a proclivity for mimicking anyways.
Marc:You did pretty good Jimmy Stewart.
Marc:I mean, you can lock in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, no, it's fun.
Guest:It's definitely fun.
Guest:But I love acting.
Guest:I mean, I'm not, again, I'm not opposed to it.
Marc:But you feel like you can manage it.
Guest:If I have enough time, and actually, when you were talking about that time in the trailer, I...
Guest:I mean, I go into complete obsession mode.
Guest:With the day's work.
Guest:With the scene.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not necessarily choices, but showing up.
Guest:I just love the whole idea of getting in wardrobe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It kind of gives you a... You can transform.
Guest:It's not that hard to transform when you're wearing a wig and you have a fake mustache.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And there are all these characters that have...
Guest:been in your life that you can kind of draw from yeah yeah yeah so i love that but but in the trailer it's like i'm usually obsessing during that time i think like i remember one time i worked with zach alfanakis and i went in his trailer and he was like reading a book and i'm like you read and he goes yeah i'm reading a book and
Guest:I'm like, aren't we about to work?
Guest:And he's like, yeah, I'm off book.
Guest:And I'm like, I'd be looking at those three lines.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like, I can't.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:I tend to do that for a while, and then I tend to realize, like, well, I don't want to ruin the spontaneity of it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I don't want to walk out there crazy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, because almost always, like, if I'm given too much time, I'm going to come in so hot.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That they're going to be like, all right, we got to.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:I was excited.
Guest:Or then it's like you get in there and then things get moved.
Guest:And so you're in your trailer for 12 hours.
Guest:But I'm also sleeping a lot.
Guest:I love to sleep.
Guest:Oh, you do?
Guest:You do the sleeping?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But there's never a couch that's ever comfortable in a trailer.
Guest:No, it's never the right size.
Marc:And it's always covered in that leather shit, that fake leather.
Marc:It's a disaster.
Yeah.
Marc:So all the kids are all right?
Marc:They're good.
Marc:They're good.
Marc:They're good.
Guest:How old is the oldest one?
Guest:19.
Guest:I've got 19, 17, 14, 12, and 10.
Marc:Now, how do they feel about the, you know, they know who you are, and they know they're part of it, and they enjoy it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's interesting.
Guest:I mean, I don't, you know, I mean, your dad was a doctor.
Guest:My dad was a small town banker.
Guest:It's like, you don't know what to, I mean, I think my 17 year old is very funny.
Guest:My 19 year old was in a play in college and she was exceptional at it.
Guest:But I also, how do I educate them that, um,
Guest:You know, in some ways, it's I'd love to say it's all fate, but it's a fluke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have a lot of friends that are super talented that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do not get their due.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Give me a career in the arts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's like the, you know, how they feel about being part of your act.
Guest:Oh, I don't think they, you know, it's also segmented too.
Guest:So I think that it's also weird because not all kids, like when we were growing up, there wasn't this access to stand up.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But now there's just some kids that are really into stand up and they might be friends of theirs or they might not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So.
Guest:You know, younger kids, if I'm in, like, Hotel Transylvania 4, they might be like, I saw your dad, you know.
Guest:But otherwise, it's—and I think in college, you know, nobody even cares about anyone's last name.
Guest:So it's— Right, so it's not the—
Guest:in middle school and maybe freshman, sophomore, or in high school.
Guest:But it's, I would think it's... I mean, I haven't murdered anyone, so it's not that bad.
Guest:But I am kind of known as vanilla, so that's probably not cool.
Marc:Yeah, but also, like, just in terms of, like, because you have...
Marc:at least two voices that are dominant in in your uh expression of yourself and you know you have certain thought processes that i imagine don't occur in real life yeah so do they ever like you know watch your shit and be like i didn't know you was that really no i think that well i think i'm kind of uh
Guest:Yeah, no, there's – they care less about stand-up bit or if they are brought up in it.
Guest:It's not something that would embarrass them.
Guest:It would be – and this is like new material that like –
Guest:I've been working on, which is all about, it is ridiculous.
Guest:I think it's incredibly ironic that teenagers, as teenagers, we're embarrassed of our parents.
Guest:It's absurd.
Guest:It's like, my teenagers are embarrassed.
Guest:Have you looked in the mirror?
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:And so the whole thing is, for my 14-year-old being embarrassed of me,
Guest:It's some of that's just school and me bringing that up.
Guest:It's not I'm not outing her.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's you know, I didn't really encounter it with my 19 year old, but like with my 14 year old, she's like, can you act like you don't know me?
Guest:And I'm like these I know all these kids.
Guest:They've been to my house.
Yeah.
Guest:do you know what i mean it's it's just so absurd yeah yeah so like me outing her there she wouldn't care about that do you still live in new york i live in new york there's no no thoughts of change uh well we have a place in uh westchester that we got during the pandemic oh yeah i love it and i have a garden yeah and i uh love gardening
Marc:So that's pretty close.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So an hour and a half.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So you just, like, sometimes you're out there and sometimes you're in the city.
Guest:Well, during the summer, you know, we're out there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then... But it's not really... I'm not that social.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So it's not like...
Guest:Like everyone's in the Hamptons or like, you know, like when you talk about like going out to dinner with Kroll and those guys, I'm like, yeah, social.
Guest:That's weird.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:I'm like, I don't know how to do that.
Marc:I'm not, I don't do it enough.
Marc:I like doing it.
Guest:It's, it's, it's, it's just.
Guest:something i should do but i'm i will with my kids it's like if i'm out of town for two nights a week and then i'm home for five yeah there's a parent i can't be like and on this night i'm going out with john mulaney yeah like my wife would be like no you're not
Guest:I mean, she wouldn't.
Guest:I don't want to portray it like she would be, like, the problem.
Guest:It just wouldn't make sense.
Guest:Who opens for you?
Guest:Ted Alexandro.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, and he's, like... He's great.
Guest:He kills.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He kills, and he's, like, such a great comedian, and it is...
Guest:You know, particularly when I start over, I'm like.
Marc:I can't follow this guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just like because he, you know, I'm like, do 20.
Guest:And then I'll be like, I'll get up there.
Guest:And, you know, you get a couple minutes pass.
Guest:And then they're like, all right, where's the stuff?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I can't stop and be like, Ted's been doing stand-up for 30 years.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I can't stop and say that.
Guest:He's not just an opening act.
Guest:He's a headliner in real life.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, there is that thing where you kind of got to be like, well, they're here to see me.
Marc:And he's doing real well.
Marc:I had Nate open for me at Carnegie Hall, and I swear he had a better set than me.
Marc:And I floundered for two hours, and I was like, God damn it.
Guest:But it's also you want to have someone good.
Guest:Because it's also their experience.
Marc:No, yeah, it's great.
Marc:I was fine with it, but it was really a lesson in, like, I got to tighten things up.
Marc:I knew I took the Carnegie Hall gig knowing that my hour wasn't ready, but I wanted to play Carnegie Hall.
Marc:It was a New York comedy festival.
Marc:Of course, of course.
Marc:So sadly for me, when I don't have it tight, I end up doing two hours.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:It's ridiculous.
Marc:I don't even know why.
Marc:I don't know if I'm a glutton for punishment or I keep trying or I just don't want them to walk out saying like, you know, like, you didn't even try.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:It was very short.
Marc:Yeah, it was fine.
Marc:It was fine.
Marc:But I would have liked it to have been tighter.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've gotten a little more disciplined about structure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's good talking to you, man.
Guest:This has been fun.
Guest:Thank you for having me.
Guest:I really appreciate it.
Marc:Are you going to the store tonight?
Guest:I'm going on a plane.
Guest:I got to go back.
Marc:Oh, all right.
Marc:Well, maybe I'll see you in the other side somewhere.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:All right, buddy.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:I guess we're both fortunate we never touched the sun.
Marc:Go check out Jim's special Dark Pale and go to jimgaffigan.com for tickets to his Barely Alive tour and hang out for a minute.
Marc:All right, people.
Marc:On Thursday, we have George Schlatter back on the show.
Marc:He is the legendary television producer known for Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In.
Marc:He has a new memoir out with lots of stories.
Marc:But if you want to hear his first appearance on the show, that's on episode 848 from 2017.
Guest:Because you're on the periphery of the establishment.
Guest:You're almost normal.
Guest:I'm definitely on the periphery of the establishment.
Guest:You're almost normal, but not.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:And that's very promising for my world.
Guest:Don't tell anybody.
Marc:Don't tell anybody.
Guest:No, I wouldn't.
Guest:Who would believe it?
Guest:I know, right?
Guest:I'm having more damn fun than I've ever had with my clothes on.
Guest:Stop it.
Guest:You've had better times with better people?
Guest:Well, okay.
Okay.
Guest:That was an easy sale.
Guest:No, we will do it.
Guest:We're going to do a new laugh-in.
Guest:We're going to do it.
Guest:I may do it.
Guest:See, what happens— You're hiding something.
Guest:You've already talked to people.
Guest:I hide a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, sure.
Guest:You think I got here by the bus?
Guest:Everything I do is hiding something.
Marc:I didn't think you got here by the bus.
Guest:No, but the thing is— I love that saying.
Guest:There's more stuff to be done that we're not doing.
I know.
Marc:Again, that's episode 848 with George Schlatter, which you can listen to now for free in whatever app you're using.
Marc:To get all episodes of WTF ad-free, sign up for WTF+.
Marc:Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+.
Marc:Here's something I got going, and it felt like I actually got it going.
Thank you.
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.
Marc:I know, I know I screwed it up once in there.
Marc:There's a, I know, I know.