Episode 1448 - Clifton Collins Jr.

Episode 1448 • Released June 29, 2023 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what the fuck aristas what is happening what is happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it how's it going where we at

00:00:25Marc:Clifton Collins Jr.

00:00:28Marc:is my guest today.

00:00:29Marc:Now, look, you'll know him if you look him up.

00:00:32Marc:He's been in a lot of movies, Traffic, Capote, Westworld, Pacific Rim, Nightmare Alley.

00:00:38Marc:The guy is like a legit and working character actor who I've always liked.

00:00:45Marc:And I think he's an incredible actor.

00:00:47Marc:I'm always engaged by him.

00:00:49Marc:But

00:00:50Marc:But he did this movie that I saw called Jockey.

00:00:54Marc:And it's sort of what made me want to talk to him.

00:00:56Marc:I don't know how or why I saw it, but I watched it and it's about a jockey.

00:01:00Marc:And we booked him on that.

00:01:01Marc:And then the day he was coming over, he had a bike accident and was injured.

00:01:06Marc:And now he's here.

00:01:08Marc:And he's an intense guy with an interesting story that goes way back in Hollywood.

00:01:13Marc:The glorious days of Hollywood.

00:01:15Marc:It's very strange about old Hollywood.

00:01:18Marc:You know, my girlfriend Kit lives in an old Hollywood building.

00:01:23Marc:And one of my favorite Hollywood historians...

00:01:29Marc:Mr. Cliff Nesteroff happens to live in the same building, which I didn't know.

00:01:34Marc:And it completely makes sense.

00:01:36Marc:It's a particular area of Hollywood, of L.A., that really is probably the most old Hollywood-ish of the old Hollywoods.

00:01:45Marc:And there used to be a whole bunch of people that were kind of obsessed with old Hollywood.

00:01:50Marc:And I was kind of halfway there.

00:01:52Marc:But it seems to be a dying nerdism.

00:01:54Marc:I think there was a very specific nerdism that revolved around old Hollywood, old Hollywood, old Hollywood movies.

00:02:01Marc:And it doesn't seem to be as many as there used to be.

00:02:05Marc:But it is kind of fascinating.

00:02:08Marc:You know, the way that the word Hollywood is thrown around today, it never indicates anything good.

00:02:14Marc:On either side, oddly.

00:02:16Marc:But, you know, the birth of this business, of show business and the creation of this illusion factory and this dream machine and this, you know, this sort of like artistic haven is kind of fascinating.

00:02:31Marc:And I don't know, you know, it's all going to be gone.

00:02:35Marc:Right.

00:02:36Marc:No one's going to no one's going to eventually care anymore.

00:02:39Marc:But it's pretty fascinating.

00:02:40Marc:That was sort of what was fascinating talking to Clifton because he sort of comes from it, but in a very specific way.

00:02:47Marc:It was a very interesting conversation.

00:02:50Marc:And I like the guy.

00:02:52Marc:Look, for those of you in L.A.

00:02:55Marc:here, I'm at Largo this Saturday.

00:02:56Marc:I'm doing the Mark has friends over to do music and comedy.

00:03:01Marc:The band is playing.

00:03:03Marc:We've got a nice lineup of songs that I'm going to attempt to try.

00:03:06Marc:We've got the comedy of Willie Simon and Ali Colbert.

00:03:10Marc:The band and I are going to try to we're going to do we seem to be.

00:03:15Marc:In a zone right now, I'm going to attempt a song by the Velvet Underground that's not as known as their other ones called I Guess I'm Falling in Love.

00:03:25Marc:And I'm going to do He Stopped Loving Her Today, which I'm very nervous about, the Georgia Jones song, which you shouldn't even attempt, but I'm going to do it.

00:03:32Marc:We're going to do a Credence tune.

00:03:34Marc:We're going to do Up Around the Bend because that song, more than almost any other song, seared itself into my brain when I was a very young guy, probably like seven or eight maybe, in the basement with my parents' old Iowa cassette player that had detachable speakers and a box of cassette tapes that they didn't use anymore because they'd moved on to reel-to-reel and...

00:03:56Marc:Records upstairs.

00:03:57Marc:And I had that box of records, man.

00:03:59Marc:And Cosmos Factory was in there.

00:04:02Marc:Bobby Gentry's Greatest Hits was in there.

00:04:05Marc:Johnny Cash, Live at San Quentin, that was in that box.

00:04:08Marc:Jerry Vale's Greatest Hits.

00:04:10Marc:But man, that opening riff of Up Around the Bend just seared its way into my deepest consciousness.

00:04:18Marc:And I still love it.

00:04:19Marc:And I don't know if I can nail that riff.

00:04:20Marc:We're actually going to play it together, me and Jason.

00:04:22Marc:But we're going to try that song.

00:04:25Marc:We're going to do...

00:04:26Marc:Before you accuse me, I'd like to think we're doing the Bo Diddley version or the Creedence version, not the Eric Clapton version.

00:04:35Marc:But he sort of kind of owned that song on his Unplugged.

00:04:38Marc:But it's a great song.

00:04:40Marc:We're going to reprise.

00:04:41Marc:Is that how you say it?

00:04:41Marc:We're going to do War Frat again.

00:04:43Marc:My favorite Grateful Dead song.

00:04:45Marc:A little psychedelic journey.

00:04:46Marc:The reason we're going to do that song is because when my drummer, Ned, got the song to learn it, he was like, I thought it was the most boring thing I ever heard.

00:04:54Marc:And for some reason, when we played it, he was like, oh, my God, that was wild.

00:04:59Marc:Like, we got out there.

00:05:00Marc:It's like a portal into a psychedelic zone, which is what the dead is.

00:05:04Marc:But for some reason, that song, in my mind...

00:05:07Marc:And In My Heart does that.

00:05:09Marc:And when we play it, it did it too.

00:05:10Marc:So we're going to try it again.

00:05:11Marc:We'll probably do No Fun by the Stooges.

00:05:13Marc:And then we might open with a riff that we pulled from a status quo song.

00:05:17Marc:I don't think I'll sing the song.

00:05:18Marc:We're just going to do a blues jam because that's what I am, I guess.

00:05:23Marc:I'm an older man who's got a bunch of guys I play with, but we're doing cool songs.

00:05:28Marc:But you got to throw a blues jam in, don't you?

00:05:33Marc:Don't you?

00:05:35Marc:And I think something's happened recently that I think I'm happy about.

00:05:43Marc:It's happened a couple of times.

00:05:46Marc:I think I've crossed some threshold as I transition into an older man here that I'm not unhappy about.

00:05:55Marc:I told you I did Heidegger's podcast.

00:05:59Marc:And then somebody had tweeted something that they said that I love seeing Marin.

00:06:03Marc:He's such a character.

00:06:06Marc:And I was like, finally, finally, I'm a character.

00:06:10Marc:That means I'm I have definition that I don't always see myself, but I think it has something to do with age and something to do with being more sort of at home in my skin and more something to do and has something to do with me being unavoidably me, which I don't think I've noticed before or I don't think I ever was.

00:06:29Marc:But it seems to have sort of settled in.

00:06:32Marc:Because Eric Griffin the other night at the Comedy Store, he said he was like, you should host a talk show like on TV or something.

00:06:39Marc:And I'm like, no, no one does that anymore.

00:06:41Marc:And we're good.

00:06:42Marc:But he's like, but you're just such a character.

00:06:44Marc:And I'm like, oh, my God, that's twice.

00:06:47Marc:That's twice in like a week.

00:06:49Marc:And part of me is really kind of.

00:06:51Marc:Like, wow, am I, has it finally happened?

00:06:55Marc:Am I finally a character?

00:06:57Marc:I hope so.

00:06:59Marc:I've been waiting to be a character my entire life.

00:07:03Marc:And maybe it's here.

00:07:04Marc:Maybe I'm at the right age for it.

00:07:05Marc:This is where you move into your character years.

00:07:09Marc:I'm beginning my character years.

00:07:12Marc:Did I mention I'm back at Dynasty Typewriter on July 11th, 18th, and 25th?

00:07:17Marc:Those are all Tuesdays.

00:07:20Marc:You can go to wtfpod.com for tickets for those.

00:07:24Marc:So look, again, Clifton Collins Jr.

00:07:30Marc:was supposed to be here a while back, but it was a delayed booking because of the bike accident that he literally had on the day he was supposed to come over.

00:07:38Marc:And when he finally came over, we got in it.

00:07:40Marc:And it's quite a story.

00:07:43Marc:And he's quite an actor.

00:07:45Marc:So this is me talking to Clifton.

00:07:55Marc:Where did I see you last?

00:07:57Marc:Pull that mic into your face.

00:07:58Marc:It was at Houdini's house.

00:08:02Marc:Oh, right, for that.

00:08:03Marc:What were we doing there?

00:08:04Marc:It was an event.

00:08:06Marc:It was a celebration.

00:08:07Marc:It was like a network did it, right?

00:08:09Marc:It was for a film, was it not?

00:08:11Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:13Marc:Yeah, and I was doing press for Chalky at the time.

00:08:16Marc:I feel like it was a party for a couple of movies under one.

00:08:20Marc:That's what it feels like.

00:08:21Marc:Yeah.

00:08:21Marc:It was a big deal.

00:08:23Marc:It kind of was.

00:08:23Marc:It was like, yeah.

00:08:24Marc:It was fun.

00:08:25Marc:It was pretty fun.

00:08:25Marc:That house was kind of wild.

00:08:27Marc:I love that house.

00:08:28Marc:You do?

00:08:28Marc:Yeah, I've had a couple of parties there.

00:08:29Marc:Yeah?

00:08:30Marc:I mean, not me personally, but I've been to.

00:08:32Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:08:32Marc:Yeah.

00:08:32Marc:It seems a little worn down, you know, like half a museum, half an event, you know, like an event hall.

00:08:38Guest:You know how things just – The way they set that one up, yeah.

00:08:40Guest:But what I went to before was actually, I think, a birthday party.

00:08:43Guest:So it felt much more intimate.

00:08:45Guest:Oh, right, right.

00:08:46Guest:So it felt more like a house party.

00:08:47Marc:Oh, okay.

00:08:48Marc:Because you can kind of wander around and there's rooms that look like museum rooms almost, like Houdini rooms.

00:08:53Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:08:54Marc:It just looks a little worn down.

00:08:55Marc:You know when places are like hotels or cool places are cool at the beginning, but then too many weddings happen?

00:09:02Guest:Yes, sir.

00:09:02Marc:And you just take the soul out of the place.

00:09:04Marc:It really does.

00:09:05Marc:Yeah.

00:09:05Marc:Weddings just suck the energy out.

00:09:08Marc:How'd you get all fucked up?

00:09:12Guest:This buddy of mine named Mr. Cartoon got me back into BMX bikes.

00:09:17Guest:Yeah, well, there's two red flags.

00:09:20Marc:Yeah.

00:09:20Marc:Mr. Cartoon got me into BMX bikes again in my 50s.

00:09:26Guest:Yeah.

00:09:26Guest:Okay.

00:09:29Guest:That should have been... And it gets worse from there because everybody thinks I was jumping cars or doing some crazy stunt, and I was not.

00:09:36Guest:Sadly, I just... And I didn't even end, though.

00:09:38Guest:I just...

00:09:39Guest:I've just plowed in front of my driveway going to the gym.

00:09:43Guest:I was like, I'll just get a nice little comfy bike ride on my red line to the gym, which is only two blocks.

00:09:49Guest:I feel like a douchebag driving a 911, like, here's my 911, two blocks.

00:09:53Guest:Like, ah, let me ride the red line.

00:09:54Guest:And I went up to crank it really big, and I stood up like you did, like a teenager.

00:09:59Guest:Sure.

00:09:59Guest:And then because it's a freestyle bike, as I started to go over the speed bump, it wasn't quite over the 90-degree angle, and it went backwards.

00:10:06Guest:And I was standing.

00:10:08Guest:So the whole way, just straight to the bottom.

00:10:10Guest:What did you break?

00:10:13Guest:I cracked the bone.

00:10:14Guest:Which one?

00:10:16Guest:That's a good question.

00:10:17Guest:A leg?

00:10:17Guest:I wouldn't look at the x-ray.

00:10:19Guest:Oh.

00:10:19Guest:It's a leg?

00:10:20Guest:Yeah, it's cracked.

00:10:22Guest:The ligament wasn't torn.

00:10:24Guest:Actually, the ligament tore, broke the bone.

00:10:26Guest:It stuck to it.

00:10:27Guest:But it's in place right now, and it's all healing, and I'm really close.

00:10:30Guest:I mean, I got a brace, but we expect to be completely back to regular walking by the 14th.

00:10:37Marc:Yeah, there you go.

00:10:38Marc:Don't do anything.

00:10:40Marc:weird and dumb at a certain age.

00:10:44Marc:Thank you.

00:10:44Marc:Yeah, I mean, I hike and stuff, but I see guys up there, like, lately, because I'll run down the hill, you know, but, like, you start to realize you're very fragile.

00:10:53Marc:You get to a certain, you know, you're going to break a hip.

00:10:55Marc:You know, it's a joke, but we're at the hip-breaking point now.

00:10:58Marc:I am, anyways.

00:10:59Marc:I don't know how old you are.

00:11:00Marc:I'm 50.

00:11:01Marc:I'll be 53 in June.

00:11:02Guest:Yeah, so we're in hip-breaking zone.

00:11:04Guest:But even go back even before that.

00:11:06Guest:Yeah.

00:11:06Guest:It's like, think about, like, when I did Tigerland with Schumacher, Colin Farrell's first film.

00:11:10Guest:Yeah.

00:11:10Guest:I was the oldest guy.

00:11:12Guest:I've looked the youngest.

00:11:14Guest:My whole family's like on the Mexican side.

00:11:16Guest:And I was doing the boot camp.

00:11:18Guest:I knew I had to do boot camp.

00:11:19Guest:I'd already done boot camp for dead presidents.

00:11:22Guest:So I was like, hell, I can't look like an old guy, even though I am the oldest.

00:11:25Guest:So let me start pre-boot camp at home.

00:11:28Guest:So going hiking high in Griffith Park and all these other places with the 20 pounds on my back.

00:11:33Guest:Oh, really?

00:11:34Guest:And next thing you know, like you said, I'm starting to injure myself because I'm pushing myself.

00:11:37Guest:I'm not a boot camp trainer.

00:11:40Guest:I'm just doing things that I know I did in boot camp.

00:11:42Guest:So I had to go back to my therapist and tighten me up before I actually hit the real boot camp.

00:11:47Marc:A therapist, you mean, is that like a trainer?

00:11:49Guest:A physical therapist.

00:11:50Guest:Oh, really?

00:11:50Marc:So you've always been sort of an immersive actor.

00:11:54Guest:Yeah.

00:11:55Marc:You do the whole thing?

00:11:56Guest:Yeah.

00:11:56Marc:You do your own stunts sometimes?

00:11:58Guest:All the time.

00:11:59Guest:All the time?

00:12:00Guest:Damn near.

00:12:01Guest:I mean, I'm not going to lie, I'm pretty good at it.

00:12:03Guest:I've been doing martial arts since I was like 14.

00:12:05Guest:Yeah.

00:12:06Guest:So fighting's a natural thing.

00:12:07Guest:I started Muay Thai in 1987.

00:12:09Guest:Really?

00:12:10Guest:Yeah, before people even knew what Muay Thai was.

00:12:12Guest:Yeah.

00:12:12Guest:From Taekwondo, American freestyle, Muay Thai, all kinds of weapons, nunchaku, staff, bow, stars.

00:12:19Guest:You can do it?

00:12:19Guest:You can do stars?

00:12:20Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:12:20Guest:Oh, Throwing Stars, Bally Song.

00:12:23Guest:If you had a Bally Song right.

00:12:24Guest:I'm not even sure I know what that is.

00:12:26Guest:Oh, the Throwing Stars?

00:12:27Guest:I know what Throwing Stars are because I remember Kung Fu when I was a little kid.

00:12:30Guest:Oh, with David Carradine.

00:12:31Guest:Sure, sure, sure.

00:12:32Guest:The Bally Song, Butterfly Knives.

00:12:34Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:12:34Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:35Marc:You can do those?

00:12:35Marc:Oh, my God.

00:12:36Marc:Yeah.

00:12:36Marc:And Noomchucks.

00:12:36Marc:Yeah.

00:12:37Marc:Noomchucks?

00:12:37Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:12:38Marc:Oh, my God.

00:12:39Marc:So have you done any major martial arts movies?

00:12:42Marc:I've been wanting to for a long time.

00:12:43Marc:I got really close on a few.

00:12:44Marc:You better get it in now, buddy.

00:12:46Guest:No shit.

00:12:47No shit.

00:12:47Guest:You are not lying.

00:12:50Guest:Time's running out for the martial arts movie.

00:12:52Guest:It's interesting.

00:12:53Guest:I've had a few mentors recently talk to me about not doing my stunts.

00:12:57Guest:Just one can allege.

00:12:58Guest:It's random.

00:12:59Guest:Sam Jackson.

00:13:00Guest:Are you guys your pals?

00:13:02Guest:He's a father figure to me.

00:13:04Guest:Really?

00:13:04Guest:He's a dear, dear.

00:13:05Guest:Yeah, he's the closest thing I got to a dad.

00:13:07Marc:Well, how'd you meet him?

00:13:09Marc:Like, which movie?

00:13:10Marc:I did 187 with Kevin Reynolds.

00:13:12Marc:Like, you know, you're one of these guys where you're a real character actor and you've done a million movies.

00:13:17Marc:So everybody sort of knows you.

00:13:19Marc:I just look different.

00:13:20Guest:I have to profile people.

00:13:21Marc:Yeah, a little bit.

00:13:22Marc:But people must come up to you all the time like, oh, you're that guy.

00:13:26Marc:That guy.

00:13:27Marc:Nine out of ten times, it's like, you're that scary guy.

00:13:29Marc:Right?

00:13:30Marc:Well, you can tell by the look in their eye.

00:13:32Guest:Which movie they know you from?

00:13:33Guest:They're very respectful.

00:13:34Guest:Yeah.

00:13:34Guest:I don't get, like I was, I forget when they were, Mila Kunis and I were going to get some coffee and we were just walking and talking, shopping and stuff.

00:13:41Guest:And she's got the crazy fans because of her TV show back in the day.

00:13:43Guest:And it was around that time.

00:13:45Guest:And then my fans were always very respectful and oftentimes like, you know, ex-convicts or big motherfuckers.

00:13:50Marc:From what movies do you think it was?

00:13:52Guest:Well, when it's that case, it's usually like the 187s or the 999s or the Crank 2.

00:13:59Marc:Do all of them have numbers in the title?

00:14:01Guest:They're all...

00:14:02Guest:some wish um they're they're pretty uh just the more violent ones dirty about when i played a it was a rampart police scandal okay that i did with cuba gooding yeah yeah so it's such a big and uh vast career you've got going there but so but sam jackson so so i i uh you know this is a movie as you know uh it's very rare to shoot in sequence oh yeah meaning from beginning to end like page one to the

00:14:29Guest:end this is 187 yeah yeah and um this one we shot in sequence yeah so we had two weeks of rehearsal um so you get to grow as not only as as actors and as friends but you get to grow as the character yeah in the film in the story yeah um and then by the very end like i think two days before uh the the big finale scene where we're we've got guns door ahead playing russian roulette i had to bury my father to a suicide

00:14:55Guest:Your dad killed himself?

00:14:57Guest:Hung himself in a closet.

00:14:59Guest:Oh, my God.

00:15:00Guest:So to have a gun to your head two days after you buried him is a very surreal thing.

00:15:06Guest:And you're going toe-to-toe with somebody you admire, respect, look up to.

00:15:09Guest:Jackson, yeah.

00:15:09Guest:And you're learning from as much as you can.

00:15:12Guest:I mean, I stopped smoking weed for that film.

00:15:13Marc:Yeah.

00:15:14Guest:Oh, on day five of rehearsal, he gave me a spanking.

00:15:16Guest:I grabbed my bong and I cleaned it out with 420 and I put fresh water in.

00:15:21Guest:I went and bought flowers at the gas station.

00:15:23Guest:And I was like, I love you, but for the next three months, you are now a vase.

00:15:27Guest:And I put it on top of my fridge with flowers and it stayed there till the end.

00:15:32Guest:Because Sam told you not to...

00:15:33Guest:Not at all.

00:15:34Guest:I just saw how badass he was.

00:15:36Guest:He knows everybody's lines.

00:15:38Guest:He reads the script three times.

00:15:39Guest:He knows everything.

00:15:40Guest:Camera movement everywhere.

00:15:43Guest:So he paced himself four days of rehearsal.

00:15:45Guest:On the fifth day of rehearsal was the big finale.

00:15:48Guest:And the monologues, the original monologues, were even bigger than what ended up in the movie.

00:15:52Guest:And I watched Samuel just sit there and look at, well, he put his head down.

00:15:55Guest:I could tell for the first time I was looking at Samuel, I'm like, wow, he's not paying attention to anybody now.

00:16:00Guest:He's just looking down at this script.

00:16:02Guest:And I said, okay.

00:16:02Guest:Well, I got a 357.

00:16:03Guest:I said, hey, Sam, I just want to show you.

00:16:06Guest:It's all clear.

00:16:07Guest:And he wasn't looking at me.

00:16:08Guest:Yeah.

00:16:08Guest:He's totally ignoring me.

00:16:09Guest:Yeah.

00:16:09Guest:And it's just like, yeah, I knew what was going on.

00:16:12Guest:Yeah.

00:16:14Guest:So I was like, I said, okay.

00:16:15Guest:I said, all right, bro, what's clean?

00:16:17Guest:I said, clack.

00:16:17Guest:I closed it.

00:16:18Guest:I got, you know, you hold the sides in your hands.

00:16:20Guest:You're fumbling through.

00:16:21Guest:It's rehearsal.

00:16:22Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:23Guest:And then Samuel, and then Kevin goes, hey, you guys ready?

00:16:26Guest:And then Samuel goes, picks up the sides and just throws them on the floor.

00:16:30Guest:He goes, yeah.

00:16:30Guest:Yeah, man.

00:16:31Guest:I was like, oh, fuck.

00:16:33Guest:I'm holding my sides and my little freaking 357 like a little girl.

00:16:37Guest:I'm just like, oh, okay.

00:16:39Guest:You got bigger speeches than me, but okay.

00:16:41Guest:And then I'm like, oh, hey, Mr. G. And he just goes, I was a teacher.

00:16:46Guest:And his eyes are like.

00:16:48Guest:So Samuel can control this side and this side from crying.

00:16:51Guest:He can drop one tear, two tears, three tears.

00:16:53Guest:I swear to God.

00:16:54Guest:Ask for yourself.

00:16:56Guest:John Barrymore could do it.

00:16:57Guest:And Sam Jackson can do it.

00:16:59Guest:John Barrymore.

00:17:00Guest:That's a deep reference.

00:17:01Guest:Yeah.

00:17:01Guest:I come from deep roots.

00:17:04Guest:Yeah.

00:17:05Guest:So Sam was clearly holding the tears.

00:17:07Guest:And I was so captivated and mesmerized.

00:17:10Guest:I was like, I just wanted to apologize for breaking into this.

00:17:12Guest:I'm so sorry.

00:17:13Guest:Here.

00:17:13Guest:I'm sorry, Mr. G. I didn't mean to be a bad student.

00:17:16Guest:But that's not what the dialogue says.

00:17:17Guest:So I had to stick to the dialogue.

00:17:19Guest:But then also I wanted to step out and just watch the motherfucker act.

00:17:22Guest:And I was like, holy shit, this is magic.

00:17:23Guest:Yeah.

00:17:24Guest:Oh, I'm like, boom.

00:17:25Guest:And then when it was over, like five pages, it's very intense.

00:17:29Guest:Yeah.

00:17:29Guest:And then Cameron's all right, man.

00:17:31Guest:He goes, what'd you think?

00:17:32Guest:I said, Kevin, didn't you just see what happened?

00:17:36Guest:Yeah.

00:17:37Guest:He chewed me up and spit me out.

00:17:38Guest:Yeah.

00:17:39Guest:I said, well, what do you want to do?

00:17:40Guest:I said, can I please?

00:17:40Guest:please just give me five, 10 minutes.

00:17:44Guest:10 would be great.

00:17:45Guest:Before you went action.

00:17:46Guest:Well, this is just rehearsals.

00:17:48Guest:We're not even on Warner Brothers yet.

00:17:50Guest:Oh, really?

00:17:50Guest:We're just in a little room.

00:17:51Guest:Yeah.

00:17:52Guest:This is just day five of rehearsal.

00:17:53Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:54Guest:And I'm just like, yo, Kev, please, can I just please go outside?

00:17:57Guest:He goes, yeah, I said, I just look, I know it's rehearsals, but I'm not going to look, I'll tell you right now, I'm not going to be by his side in this scene today.

00:18:04Guest:It's not.

00:18:05Guest:I'll be happy just to see the bottom of his souls as he runs way ahead of me.

00:18:09Guest:But at least we'll get some work done.

00:18:11Guest:Right.

00:18:11Guest:Because this is just making me go home and clean my ball and you turn into a vase.

00:18:16Guest:Because I need three extra brain cells, five, ten, one.

00:18:19Guest:I don't care.

00:18:19Guest:Yeah.

00:18:20Guest:I just look, I don't know how many extra brain cells I'll take one.

00:18:23Guest:If it's one, I'll take it.

00:18:24Marc:So that built the relationship.

00:18:26Marc:How did Samuel, you know, handle the situation around your father dying?

00:18:30Guest:He was, hey, I make one phone call, I take care of everything for you.

00:18:34Guest:Really?

00:18:35Guest:Yeah.

00:18:35Guest:In terms of like— Like a funeral burial, all of that.

00:18:39Guest:Oh, no shit.

00:18:39Guest:And he was a veteran, so we had a veterans war.

00:18:41Guest:And I felt that I had to try to be a man and handle this.

00:18:44Guest:Yeah.

00:18:44Guest:Clifton Collins, Jr.,

00:18:45Guest:Even though at that time I was carrying my grandfather's name for film, Gonzalez Gonzalez.

00:18:51Guest:Double Gonzalez.

00:18:52Guest:Yes, sir.

00:18:52Guest:So, but what was your relationship with your father?

00:18:55Guest:At that particular time, I hadn't been speaking to him for probably three and a half, four months.

00:19:02Guest:Really?

00:19:02Guest:Yeah, my sister and I would alternate.

00:19:03Guest:Just two of you?

00:19:04Guest:He was an alcoholic.

00:19:05Guest:When I'd gotten this role, I had to like...

00:19:07Guest:like three or four callbacks.

00:19:09Guest:You know, you get another callback and you get another callback.

00:19:11Guest:Right, sure.

00:19:12Guest:Like, oh my God, I'm that much closer.

00:19:13Guest:You get another callback.

00:19:14Guest:Like, what, another callback?

00:19:15Guest:Three?

00:19:15Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:19:16Guest:You know, like a four?

00:19:17Guest:Right.

00:19:17Guest:Like, this is ridiculous.

00:19:18Guest:It must be down to me and one other guy or something.

00:19:20Guest:You just don't know.

00:19:21Guest:Yeah.

00:19:22Guest:And then I finally told my dad that I got, and he goes,

00:19:24Guest:And he was depressed.

00:19:25Guest:He was like, oh, that's nothing, son.

00:19:27Guest:That's just, you know what?

00:19:28Guest:I'm like, dad, I worked so hard for this.

00:19:30Guest:This is like a leadoff.

00:19:31Guest:This is Sam Jackson coming off Pulp Fiction.

00:19:33Guest:I don't know who that is, son.

00:19:34Guest:They're like, yeah, but he's huge.

00:19:36Guest:Everybody's watching.

00:19:37Guest:He goes, yeah, that's just, that's nothing, son.

00:19:39Guest:I was like, I can't have this negative input when I work so hard for this.

00:19:45Guest:You know, this is my life.

00:19:46Guest:This is what I love to do.

00:19:47Marc:But was that your whole life with the diminishing business?

00:19:50Guest:No, just this particular film.

00:19:52Guest:I think his own personal life was in, he was just getting to a depressed stage.

00:19:57Marc:What was your, now it was his father that was the actor?

00:20:02Guest:No, no, that was my mother.

00:20:03Marc:Oh, so your dad was like.

00:20:05Marc:He was Colin Senior.

00:20:07Marc:Okay, but your whole life he was just a boozer?

00:20:11Guest:Oh, yeah, for sure.

00:20:12Guest:Was your parents together?

00:20:13Guest:They were together.

00:20:15Guest:He left when I was eight years old.

00:20:17Guest:That's the earliest childhood memory I have is him leaving.

00:20:20Guest:Really?

00:20:21Guest:Yeah.

00:20:22Guest:You choose a traumatic episode, the earliest trauma that you have.

00:20:24Guest:Sure, of course.

00:20:25Guest:Yeah.

00:20:26Marc:But you stayed in touch with him?

00:20:28Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:20:28Guest:He was around?

00:20:29Guest:He was.

00:20:30Guest:Yeah?

00:20:31Guest:He went to prison for a year for manslaughter.

00:20:35Guest:What?

00:20:36Guest:Yeah.

00:20:37Guest:Did a year for manslaughter.

00:20:38Marc:That doesn't seem like a long time to do for manslaughter.

00:20:40Marc:He was white.

00:20:41Guest:White in the 70s.

00:20:43Marc:Did he kill the guy?

00:20:44Guest:Yeah, he did.

00:20:46Guest:What was that about?

00:20:47Guest:He was just drunk driving.

00:20:49Guest:Oh, that's terrible.

00:20:50Guest:And the dude he killed was rich.

00:20:51Guest:My dad was not.

00:20:53Guest:He lived in a trailer park.

00:20:54Guest:Really?

00:20:55Guest:Yeah, and he had a genius IQ.

00:20:56Guest:He was insanely smart.

00:20:58Marc:Your dad was?

00:20:58Marc:Yeah.

00:20:59Marc:He just squandered it?

00:21:00Marc:Where does he come from?

00:21:02Marc:He came from around here?

00:21:02Marc:He grew up here?

00:21:03Marc:Yeah, Culver City.

00:21:04Marc:Culver City.

00:21:05Guest:Went to Culver High with my mom.

00:21:06Guest:Yeah.

00:21:07Guest:Huh.

00:21:08Guest:Yeah, my grandparents were probably, in all honesty, probably the first Mexicans to own land in Culver City because it was against the law for Mexicans to own land in, I think, up until 68.

00:21:18Guest:So that's your mom's family?

00:21:19Guest:Yeah, and John Wayne helped them work that loophole.

00:21:22Guest:You always got to go to the higher-ups.

00:21:24Guest:To John Wayne?

00:21:24Guest:You got to go to John Wayne.

00:21:26Guest:That's, you know, doesn't get much higher than that.

00:21:28Guest:Nah.

00:21:28Guest:Dude, dude.

00:21:29Guest:Next thing you know, Duke makes a call.

00:21:30Guest:Next thing you know, my grandpa owns the whole block, a house across the street, a house across the street, an apartment complex by Veterans Park.

00:21:37Guest:Really?

00:21:37Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:21:38Guest:Apartment complex.

00:21:39Guest:And his whole block had apartments that he owned.

00:21:42Guest:And the four garages that were meant for the apartments, he just filled with old cars.

00:21:46Guest:Yeah.

00:21:46Guest:Really?

00:21:47Guest:He loved working on old cars.

00:21:48Marc:So your mom's dad was like a character actor as well, you know, a studio guy.

00:21:55Guest:He was like a legitimate vaudevillian, one of the first studio.

00:21:59Guest:He was the first, I think, one of the studio players Latino.

00:22:02Guest:Right.

00:22:02Marc:How did your mom get tied up with your old dad?

00:22:05Guest:Culver High.

00:22:06Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:22:07Guest:Oh, so they were high school sweethearts?

00:22:08Guest:Yeah.

00:22:09Guest:And also, to get out of the house, you had to get married.

00:22:13Guest:And that was, so she got married when she was a kid?

00:22:15Guest:She didn't want to get the fuck out of the house.

00:22:17Guest:Right.

00:22:18Guest:She was like, and she confessed, like, look, honestly, part of it was like, I just want to get out of the house.

00:22:23Guest:Yeah.

00:22:23Guest:I'm like, that doesn't help me.

00:22:24Marc:How old was she when she had you?

00:22:26Guest:I think 25.

00:22:28Guest:Oh, okay.

00:22:28Guest:My dad was a little younger.

00:22:30Guest:Yeah.

00:22:31Guest:So your dad was just a boozy ne'er-do-well?

00:22:34Guest:He was just a real smart—he was boozy, drank a bunch.

00:22:39Guest:Yeah?

00:22:40Guest:Yeah, I mean, there were days where he'd come to pick us up on a Saturday morning and just be shit-plowed.

00:22:45Guest:My grandma would be like, no, Kip, you're not—

00:22:47Guest:You're not taking the kids.

00:22:48Guest:Really?

00:22:49Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:22:50Guest:He got pulled over two blocks in a residential neighborhood in the 70s for not wearing a seatbelt.

00:22:56Guest:So you know you got to be driving squirrely in a residential area.

00:22:59Guest:To get pulled over.

00:23:00Guest:In the 70s?

00:23:01Guest:Yeah.

00:23:02Guest:What did he do for jobs?

00:23:04Guest:Printing.

00:23:05Guest:He worked in the printing industry.

00:23:07Guest:Yeah.

00:23:07Guest:With printing stuff.

00:23:08Guest:But then he learned how to work.

00:23:09Guest:I mean, he had a genius IQ, so he learned how to work the system.

00:23:12Guest:Yeah.

00:23:12Guest:And veteran benefits and all this other stuff.

00:23:15Guest:But then he would help people in the trailer park with their issues.

00:23:17Guest:And I feel like he had a stronger purpose whenever he was helping other people.

00:23:22Guest:Because at his funeral, I had all these people coming up to me.

00:23:24Guest:He goes, he helped me with this.

00:23:25Guest:He helped me with that.

00:23:26Guest:Paperwork and stuff.

00:23:26Guest:They were trying to take my land.

00:23:27Guest:Yeah.

00:23:27Guest:They were trying to take my trailer.

00:23:28Guest:They were trying to this.

00:23:29Guest:And your dad helped me get some money.

00:23:31Guest:Yeah.

00:23:31Guest:I was like, wow, he helped a lot of you guys.

00:23:33Guest:But he wasn't college educated or anything?

00:23:34Guest:No.

00:23:35Guest:Huh.

00:23:35Guest:Just knew numbers?

00:23:37Guest:He just knew how to work a lot of things.

00:23:39Guest:Was he gambler?

00:23:40Guest:Yes.

00:23:41Guest:Yeah?

00:23:42Guest:Now, that ties into Jockey, because that ending speech in Jockey,

00:23:46Guest:is very much my childhood with him because on those weekends that he did show up to pick us up because sometimes he just wouldn't show up and just leave us at our grandparents.

00:23:54Guest:It was like one out of three times I'd say he wouldn't show up.

00:23:57Guest:So oftentimes my weekend would be just going across the street to the liquor store, picking up racing forms.

00:24:05Guest:He taught me how to pick the horses, the weight conditions, jockey, this, that.

00:24:10Guest:He taught me all that.

00:24:10Guest:When you were how old?

00:24:11Guest:Nine.

00:24:12Marc:So you knew that shit going into that movie.

00:24:14Marc:It was in your blood.

00:24:15Marc:Yeah.

00:24:16Marc:But you weren't a jockey, but you understood the weight that was on jockeys.

00:24:20Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:24:21Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:24:21Guest:For sure.

00:24:22Guest:100.

00:24:22Guest:Yeah.

00:24:23Guest:So he would get a couple things of booze.

00:24:25Guest:He'd meet his other trailer park friends from various trailer parks.

00:24:28Guest:And then we'd walk to Hollywood Park.

00:24:30Guest:Yeah.

00:24:31Guest:And we'd walk.

00:24:31Guest:And that was like.

00:24:32Guest:The day.

00:24:33Guest:Yeah.

00:24:33Guest:Him getting plowed with his friends while I'm gambling on a horse trying to win money because I really need dough at nine years old.

00:24:39Guest:Yeah.

00:24:40Guest:How'd you do?

00:24:40Guest:How'd he do?

00:24:41Guest:Was he good at it?

00:24:43Guest:Was I good at it?

00:24:45Guest:I had nine.

00:24:46Guest:I was the one picking the horses.

00:24:47Guest:Oh, you were?

00:24:48Guest:Yeah.

00:24:49Guest:He taught me how to read the program.

00:24:51Guest:Oh, that's funny.

00:24:51Guest:He was just busy drinking with his friends.

00:24:53Guest:He'd sit there while I'd camp.

00:24:53Guest:He'd bed a couple of things.

00:24:54Guest:But, you know, I remember I knew when he would win because we would have a good Christmas.

00:24:59Guest:My sister and I would give.

00:25:00Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:25:01Guest:Yeah.

00:25:01Guest:And I think that was only like one time.

00:25:02Marc:You know, the horses is such a classic, you know, debauchery.

00:25:07Marc:You know, it's a classic gambling.

00:25:08Marc:Like, you know, guys who like, you know, they go to the horses.

00:25:11Marc:I don't have the gambling thing.

00:25:13Marc:I don't either.

00:25:14Marc:You know, but I wish I did because guys who like are like on the horse, they love it.

00:25:18Marc:But I mean, it destroys their life.

00:25:20Guest:But they love it.

00:25:21Guest:Yeah.

00:25:22Guest:Just go spend the day at the horse track.

00:25:23Guest:You know, I got to tell you, in Northern Phoenix at Turf Paradise, it was really interesting.

00:25:28Guest:When you were shooting the movie?

00:25:29Guest:For sure.

00:25:29Guest:Yeah.

00:25:29Guest:It was a live track.

00:25:30Guest:Yeah.

00:25:31Guest:So we were shooting while there was real races going on.

00:25:33Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:25:34Guest:And when you get into the VIP room.

00:25:35Guest:Yeah.

00:25:36Guest:It was like, wow, you guys spend all your money to be in this.

00:25:39Guest:It's like Vegas minus the hot girls and minus...

00:25:43Guest:The optimism of winning because it's very drab and dismal.

00:25:49Guest:Yeah.

00:25:49Guest:You just feel like the dregs of humanity.

00:25:51Guest:Like later in the evening before the last race, you got the hardcore gamblers that gamble around the world on the TV.

00:25:57Guest:Yeah.

00:25:58Guest:Yeah.

00:25:58Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:25:58Marc:Just so it's there's no real food.

00:26:01Marc:It's very like not a fun atmosphere.

00:26:03Marc:Oh, my God.

00:26:03Marc:It was like.

00:26:04Marc:Yeah.

00:26:05Marc:It's a it's a sickness, dude.

00:26:07Marc:But that movie was great.

00:26:09Marc:I mean, I really thought it was a great film.

00:26:11Marc:Thank you, brother.

00:26:11Marc:And I thought it was deep, and I thought, like, you did, like, it looked like you did some fucking real work.

00:26:16Guest:I got dropped to 143.

00:26:18Guest:You wrote that movie?

00:26:19Guest:I wrote pieces of it.

00:26:20Guest:I sat every morning and did rewrites with the director.

00:26:23Guest:Oh, okay.

00:26:23Guest:And that whole monologue at the end, I rewrote that morning.

00:26:26Guest:Pulled it right from your dad?

00:26:28Guest:Well...

00:26:28Guest:It's funny because we were very consistent in the rewrites and the changes that we were doing up until the very end where I kept waiting.

00:26:36Guest:I was anxious.

00:26:37Guest:Like, we're going to get this rewrite.

00:26:38Guest:Like, we've been talking about this.

00:26:39Guest:And then finally I get it, and it was a very different ending.

00:26:42Guest:There was no monologue.

00:26:44Guest:It was both of us losing and both of us—

00:26:46Guest:Both you and the not sun.

00:26:48Guest:Yeah.

00:26:49Guest:Yeah.

00:26:49Guest:Well, we're just washing it in silence.

00:26:50Guest:I'm like, that's so anticlimactic.

00:26:52Guest:But we didn't build the film for an anticlimactic.

00:26:54Guest:That's a very mechanical thing.

00:26:55Guest:And it's hard to pull off.

00:26:57Guest:Yeah.

00:26:57Guest:You got to be like a Petra Volpe or something like that.

00:26:59Marc:So I can't.

00:27:00Marc:The ending now is like a passing of the baton.

00:27:02Marc:Right.

00:27:04Marc:Yeah.

00:27:04Guest:And that whole speech, too.

00:27:05Guest:It's like I wrote six different versions of that speech from 630 in the morning to like 815 a.m.

00:27:11Guest:And they're like, oh, my God, can we take these?

00:27:13Guest:I got photos because they love it when they see shit all over the floor because they know I'm just, like, mad scientist.

00:27:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:27:17Guest:Like, oh, shit, Clinton's got some shit for us.

00:27:20Guest:Yeah.

00:27:21Guest:So they took, can we take it?

00:27:22Guest:I'm like, please, just take it, take it.

00:27:23Guest:And out of that, they carved out, they took pieces, and they put that into the monologue.

00:27:27Guest:And I read, and I'm like, oh, all this pays off and works.

00:27:30Guest:Let's go shoot and have a great day.

00:27:31Marc:So, like, it was one of those movies where it's tight, it's specific.

00:27:37Marc:You know, it's a movie about...

00:27:40Marc:You know, aging and about despair in a way and about like, you know, whether a life was wasted or not.

00:27:47Marc:And then there's hope and then there isn't.

00:27:49Marc:And then, you know, but but to do it in that world, which is such an odd world to be a jockey.

00:27:57Marc:You know, what did you do?

00:27:59Marc:Did you go meet with jockeys?

00:28:00Marc:Oh, I spent every day with them.

00:28:02Guest:Every day.

00:28:03Guest:Oh, I told them.

00:28:03Guest:I said, look.

00:28:04Guest:Are those real jockeys in the movie?

00:28:05Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:28:06Guest:All of them.

00:28:07Guest:Moises Arias, who's amazing, plays my son.

00:28:10Guest:He's a jockey?

00:28:11Guest:No, no, no.

00:28:11Guest:He's a fantastic actor.

00:28:12Guest:He's been in a bunch of stuff.

00:28:14Guest:Yeah, he was real good.

00:28:15Guest:And my main girl.

00:28:17Guest:But everybody else was either.

00:28:19Guest:They were all from the track.

00:28:20Guest:Yeah.

00:28:21Guest:So day one, and this is my second film with Greg and Clint.

00:28:27Guest:Yeah.

00:28:27Guest:We did a Trans Pecos that won the Audience Award at South by Southwest.

00:28:31Guest:Yeah.

00:28:32Guest:So they already knew how I flowed and how I did rewrites.

00:28:34Guest:Right.

00:28:34Guest:And that's what they expected.

00:28:36Marc:This is the director and the producer?

00:28:37Marc:Yes, sir.

00:28:37Guest:Yeah.

00:28:38Guest:And Greg Cuidar directed that one.

00:28:41Guest:Yeah.

00:28:41Guest:And Clint Bentley produced it.

00:28:42Guest:Yeah.

00:28:42Guest:And on Jockey, they switched roles.

00:28:44Guest:Right.

00:28:44Guest:And Clint directed and Greg produced.

00:28:46Guest:Yeah.

00:28:47Yeah.

00:28:47Guest:So they knew I'd want to be there early because that's just the way I roll.

00:28:52Guest:They knew I'd want to hang out.

00:28:53Guest:And we stayed at like a courtyard Marietta, a real dingy place, which is perfect.

00:28:57Guest:You don't want to stay at a Four Seasons.

00:28:58Guest:That just doesn't fit with anything.

00:29:00Marc:No, no, no.

00:29:00Marc:You don't.

00:29:01Marc:And also budget-wise it helps.

00:29:02Marc:Well, yeah, because we had $350,000 for this movie.

00:29:05Marc:You can stay at the Marietta Courtyard.

00:29:06Marc:Yeah.

00:29:07Marc:You can frame it however you want, but we're not paying for the other one.

00:29:09Guest:Pretty much.

00:29:10Guest:And then I wouldn't want to stay there.

00:29:12Guest:Sure.

00:29:12Guest:I get it.

00:29:13Guest:And I drove out there.

00:29:14Guest:Yeah.

00:29:14Guest:From L.A.

00:29:15Guest:To Phoenix.

00:29:15Guest:Yeah.

00:29:16Guest:And I brought my clothes.

00:29:17Guest:He was the Indy.

00:29:17Guest:Bring your clothes.

00:29:18Guest:Sure.

00:29:19Guest:And all this stuff.

00:29:20Guest:So I brought all that stuff out and I told the jocks.

00:29:24Guest:I said, look, man, I know you guys are probably fans of some of my stuff.

00:29:27Guest:Yeah.

00:29:27Guest:So I don't want you guys to be shy.

00:29:29Guest:I'm here to help you guys.

00:29:31Guest:Yeah.

00:29:31Guest:If you need me to shovel shit, wash your horse.

00:29:33Guest:Right.

00:29:33Guest:Anything you guys need me to do, I'm just going to be picking up game and hanging out.

00:29:36Guest:Was this the first time, like, you know, actively around horses?

00:29:40Guest:No.

00:29:40Guest:Westworld.

00:29:41Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:29:44Guest:I did a pilot where I was a jockey.

00:29:46Guest:I was a cartel owner.

00:29:47Guest:Yeah.

00:29:48Guest:And I owned my own jockey, my horse.

00:29:50Guest:Yeah.

00:29:50Guest:One of those thoroughbreds.

00:29:51Guest:And that horse took off on me.

00:29:53Guest:Yeah.

00:29:53Guest:Yeah, that was a... What movie was that?

00:29:55Guest:It was a pilot that never got picked up.

00:29:57Marc:Oh.

00:29:57Guest:Yeah.

00:29:58Marc:But so, all right, so you tell these jockeys, you know, I'm in, I'm of you, whatever I need.

00:30:03Marc:And what did they make you do?

00:30:04Marc:Were you shoveling shit pretty quick?

00:30:05Yeah.

00:30:05Guest:Um, no, I think they were, I just wanted the whole, I just didn't want to be viewed as an actor.

00:30:11Guest:I want to be viewed as a, like a friend and an employee or just a partner.

00:30:15Guest:Sure.

00:30:15Guest:And I'm there to help them.

00:30:16Guest:Yeah.

00:30:17Guest:And if you want to hear some stories about a movie, please ask me.

00:30:19Guest:I'd love to share.

00:30:20Guest:Yeah.

00:30:20Guest:Don't be shy about anything.

00:30:21Guest:Did they?

00:30:21Guest:Yeah, absolutely.

00:30:22Guest:Absolutely.

00:30:23Marc:What they want to hear about.

00:30:24Guest:Uh, I think Boondock Saints was a good one.

00:30:26Guest:Yeah.

00:30:26Guest:Crank 2 was a good one.

00:30:30Marc:Oh, what else came up?

00:30:31Marc:I think the one I remember the most is Traffic for some reason.

00:30:34Guest:Oh yeah, that's a fun one too.

00:30:35Guest:That's heavy, man.

00:30:36Guest:Yeah.

00:30:37Guest:Yeah.

00:30:37Guest:Frankie Flowers, the gay assassin.

00:30:39Guest:And he was not happy.

00:30:41Guest:Yeah.

00:30:41Guest:But like.

00:30:42Guest:Not gay pre-gay.

00:30:43Marc:Yeah.

00:30:43Marc:It was like, you know, it was a crazy character.

00:30:46Marc:And, you know, when they beat you down, the way you played that was so devastating.

00:30:52Marc:Yeah.

00:30:52Marc:I remember the AD coming to my trailer.

00:30:55Guest:Oh, Mr. Collins, we're getting ready to shoot this scene.

00:30:57Guest:I said, yes, I'm aware.

00:30:58Guest:Thank you.

00:30:58Guest:He goes, how do you want to do it?

00:30:59Guest:I says, what do you mean?

00:31:00Guest:He says, what do you want to wear?

00:31:01Guest:I said, well, the scene here says I'm naked in a chair.

00:31:05Guest:Right.

00:31:05Guest:Well, Stephen wants to know what do you want to wear?

00:31:07Guest:I'm like, the scene says I'm naked in the chair.

00:31:10Guest:Well, do you want a thong?

00:31:11Guest:Do you want a cover?

00:31:12Guest:No, it's Soderbergh.

00:31:13Guest:I want to be naked.

00:31:14Guest:Yeah.

00:31:15Guest:you know I want to be naked I'm not you know this isn't you're not afraid you know this isn't Magic Mike or anything he's like let's make this right yeah and you did it yeah it was funny because my manager called me like two weeks later to sign a nudity waiver yeah and then when he found out for production I had already signed it without him looking at it or anything yeah so it's funny

00:31:37Guest:Fucking Soderbergh.

00:31:38Guest:Of course I'm gonna sign it.

00:31:39Guest:I don't care what that thing says.

00:31:40Guest:You gotta do it.

00:31:41Guest:I want to do it.

00:31:43Guest:It's like, you're gonna have to stop me from not doing it.

00:31:46Guest:Unless Steven has his reasons, then I'll listen to him.

00:31:48Guest:You respect that guy.

00:31:49Guest:I love him.

00:31:50Guest:I love and respect him.

00:31:52Guest:If you want to steer me into a wall, there's a reason for it.

00:31:54Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:31:54Guest:And I'm going to go right into it.

00:31:55Guest:But you don't feel that about all directors.

00:31:57Guest:No, sir.

00:32:01Guest:I didn't do any of the, do you want to be in this scene for Tigerland?

00:32:07Guest:I'm like, no, I've got to cry in the next scene, so I'd like to go back to bed.

00:32:11Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:32:11Guest:These other guys, it's their first film, so they've got to pay their dues and do the shower scene, the unwritten shower scene in Tigerland, because in Vietnam, people really take showers.

00:32:18Guest:That's the whole thing about Vietnam.

00:32:19Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:32:20Guest:Yeah, so I hear shower scene number seven.

00:32:23Guest:Yeah.

00:32:24Guest:Because it was really early.

00:32:25Guest:It was so cold in Camp Blanding, Florida.

00:32:27Guest:Yeah.

00:32:27Guest:And I had a heavy, heavy scene.

00:32:29Guest:So, you know, you kind of psych yourself out.

00:32:31Guest:You go to these places.

00:32:32Guest:Yeah.

00:32:32Guest:And then I'm like, well, Colin Farrell and all these other cats have to do this scene.

00:32:36Guest:And I'm not in it so I can rest and get into that place.

00:32:39Guest:Yeah.

00:32:39Guest:And then I hear...

00:32:40Guest:I said, oh, fuck.

00:32:41Guest:I'm like, oh, Mr. Collins?

00:32:42Guest:Like, yeah.

00:32:43Guest:He goes, because I play Private Miter.

00:32:44Guest:Like, Miter, I said, you want to be in the scene?

00:32:47Guest:I'm like, do I want to be in the scene?

00:32:49Guest:I was sleeping, brother.

00:32:50Guest:I got this fucking big head.

00:32:51Guest:Are we on my scene right now?

00:32:52Guest:The one where I break down?

00:32:53Guest:It's like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:32:54Guest:It's just a scene they decided to add.

00:32:56Guest:I'm like, oh.

00:32:56Guest:A scene then decided to add.

00:32:59Guest:Is it a shower scene?

00:33:00Guest:Well, you know, Colin Farrell's doing it and Sosa's doing it.

00:33:03Guest:Right, but they have to.

00:33:04Guest:I don't.

00:33:06Guest:I auditioned for this film.

00:33:09Guest:No, I have a big scene coming.

00:33:10Guest:I need to focus for it.

00:33:11Guest:Absolutely not.

00:33:12Guest:Please don't ever knock on my door for any additional scenes of the sort.

00:33:16Marc:And what do you attribute that to?

00:33:20Marc:Attribute what?

00:33:21Marc:The adding scenes and expecting you to do it.

00:33:23Marc:Is that a director decision?

00:33:24Marc:Who knows?

00:33:26Guest:I mean, your mind can wander wherever it wants to, and I'm sure we could all figure it out.

00:33:32Guest:Although I adored Joe.

00:33:33Guest:I had fun working with him.

00:33:35Marc:But with Jockey, this was sort of a passion project?

00:33:39Guest:Yes, without a doubt.

00:33:40Guest:And also Clint Bentley and Greg Quedar.

00:33:44Guest:They're like brothers to me.

00:33:45Guest:I love them so much.

00:33:46Guest:They've got so much respect for craft.

00:33:48Guest:And they're such amazing, open-hearted, generous collaborators.

00:33:53Guest:Yeah.

00:33:53Guest:And it did well at the festivals, right?

00:33:55Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:33:56Guest:I won Best Actor at Sundance.

00:33:58Guest:I got nominated for Independent Spirit Award.

00:34:00Guest:But nothing from the Oscars?

00:34:02Guest:No, nothing from the Oscars.

00:34:03Guest:We were hoping for that.

00:34:05Guest:And they were optimistic at a point, but... Did they pay for any juice?

00:34:11Guest:Seems like you got to pay for the juice.

00:34:12Guest:It does, doesn't it?

00:34:13Guest:I'm learning.

00:34:14Guest:I'm learning this after 30 years now.

00:34:16Marc:Except for that movie I was in with Andrea Riceboro, where, you know, her friends just got on board.

00:34:21Guest:Oh, to Leslie.

00:34:25Guest:I love that one.

00:34:26Guest:So she reminded me of my dad.

00:34:28Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:34:29Guest:Oh, no.

00:34:29Guest:Dude, I swear to God.

00:34:30Guest:Leslie.

00:34:31Guest:Leslie had such beautiful nuances and tics.

00:34:35Guest:I was watching her going, okay, either one, you're a recovery addict, or two, you have a relative that was an alcoholic, or three, you went to AA and you studied people.

00:34:46Guest:There were some beautiful, I was just like, I was kind of jealous.

00:34:50Guest:I was like, oh, that's such a good choice.

00:34:51Guest:I don't want you to come up with that.

00:34:52Guest:She's good, right?

00:34:52Guest:She's insane in it.

00:34:53Guest:But yes, so, and you saw the hoopla that came from there, but also it's not backed by a giant studio.

00:34:58Guest:Right.

00:34:59Marc:Or any, or a big consulting firm or any sort of publicity, you know.

00:35:04Marc:It just feels like.

00:35:06Guest:I think that's going to happen more now.

00:35:07Guest:I think so too.

00:35:08Guest:It just feels, I started to, it seemed like the curtain was opening a little bit.

00:35:12Marc:Well, it just seems like if you can figure out whatever, do by whatever means necessary, rally people.

00:35:18Marc:people to your movie that the big problem is, is too much shit and nobody watches a lot of shit.

00:35:23Marc:And these consultants and publicists just forced the shit down the pipe and people were like, I didn't see it, but it must be good because I like her or whatever.

00:35:31Marc:But then like somehow or another, she rallied people to watch the movie.

00:35:35Guest:You know, she acted the fuck out of that thing.

00:35:36Guest:I was mesmerized.

00:35:37Guest:I was mesmerized.

00:35:38Guest:Yeah.

00:35:38Guest:Literally.

00:35:39Guest:And again, she reminded me of my dad.

00:35:40Guest:So it's like to have those.

00:35:42Guest:Because, you know, you could do the usual drunk, drunk thing.

00:35:44Guest:There's been drunks throughout, you know.

00:35:46Guest:She didn't do any of the usual drunk things.

00:35:48Guest:No, exactly.

00:35:49Guest:That's what made her so mesmerizing.

00:35:51Marc:It was wild, dude.

00:35:51Marc:It was beautiful.

00:35:52Marc:Because, like, you know, when you're at that level of alcoholism, you're not going to be like, oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah.

00:35:58Marc:You know, you're just in a different zone.

00:35:59Marc:You've adapted to most of it.

00:36:01Marc:It's a minor shift.

00:36:02Guest:Yes.

00:36:03Marc:Right?

00:36:04Marc:Yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:36:06Marc:Fuck, dude.

00:36:07Guest:So what happened with Jockey?

00:36:08Guest:Did you get mad?

00:36:10Guest:No, I'm not going to get mad.

00:36:11Guest:It's funny.

00:36:12Guest:I had this conversation with Samuel.

00:36:15Guest:He's your counsel.

00:36:16Guest:Pretty much.

00:36:17Guest:Yeah.

00:36:18Guest:My go-to guy.

00:36:19Guest:And I said, in all honesty, I was just happy to have a seat at the table, truth told.

00:36:25Guest:Yeah.

00:36:25Guest:Like this Independent Spirit Awards.

00:36:27Guest:Yeah.

00:36:27Marc:Right, but you want people to see the fucking movie.

00:36:28Marc:That's the other thing.

00:36:29Marc:It's like, that's the weird thing.

00:36:30Marc:Like, even like, I was talking to Tim Blake Nielsen.

00:36:32Marc:Oh, I love Tim.

00:36:33Guest:Yeah, you've worked with him before.

00:36:34Guest:Yeah, I have.

00:36:34Guest:Yeah.

00:36:35Guest:What movies?

00:36:36Guest:Nightmare Alley.

00:36:37Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:38Guest:And then I wanted to do the Western with him because Posse was a friend of mine.

00:36:41Guest:And when he called me, I was, oh, man, I'd love to do this.

00:36:43Guest:Which one?

00:36:44Guest:Old Henry?

00:36:44Guest:Yes.

00:36:45Guest:But I know Potsy.

00:36:46Guest:I've known Potsy from the country.

00:36:47Guest:Who's Potsy?

00:36:48Guest:Potsy's the director.

00:36:49Guest:Okay.

00:36:50Guest:From the country music world.

00:36:51Guest:Okay.

00:36:51Guest:Because I directed Chicken Fried for Zac Brown, and we won a CMT award.

00:36:55Guest:Oh, you're a video director.

00:36:56Guest:Yeah.

00:36:58Guest:And that's where I first met Potsy.

00:37:00Guest:So we stayed in touch.

00:37:01Guest:He crashed at my house, and he called me to tell me about this film.

00:37:03Guest:Then we got Tim Blake.

00:37:04Guest:I'm like, oh, fuck.

00:37:04Guest:I mean, Tim Blake's a beast.

00:37:06Guest:He is, right?

00:37:06Guest:Oh, he's a beast.

00:37:07Guest:He's freaking insanely talented.

00:37:08Guest:Yeah.

00:37:09Marc:Yeah, so you can feel it.

00:37:10Guest:And a good dude.

00:37:11Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:37:11Guest:Very good dude.

00:37:12Guest:You watch him and you're just captivated instantly.

00:37:14Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:37:15Marc:Well, so, but you've worked with some big directors, man.

00:37:19Marc:Right?

00:37:20Marc:Yes, sir.

00:37:20Marc:You've worked with all of Inerudu.

00:37:22Marc:Is that how you say it?

00:37:23Marc:I loved him.

00:37:24Marc:Yeah.

00:37:24Marc:On Babel.

00:37:25Marc:Yeah.

00:37:25Marc:That movie's another one.

00:37:26Marc:Like, between Traffic and Babel, those are big pieces, man.

00:37:30Guest:That was another piece I rewrote, too.

00:37:31Guest:You did?

00:37:32Guest:I did, because I remember when he called me, I was doing this indie in Louisiana called Little Chenier.

00:37:39Guest:Yeah.

00:37:39Guest:And I was playing Cajun.

00:37:41Guest:I was playing Cajun there in the South Bayou's there.

00:37:43Guest:When he called me, I had to talk to him on the phone.

00:37:46Guest:And then he calls me and he says, ah, Clifton, this piece, I love you for this role.

00:37:50Guest:And he was basing it on another audition that Francine Maisler had done.

00:37:54Guest:He showed him something.

00:37:55Guest:It was completely not really related to a Border Patrol agent.

00:37:58Guest:But he saw it and he wanted me.

00:37:59Guest:So he pitched it like the scene, the opening scene to Midnight Express with Brad Davis.

00:38:05Guest:With the tension and the hash and the guys are coming onto the plane.

00:38:08Guest:Yeah.

00:38:09Guest:Beautiful.

00:38:09Guest:On the bus.

00:38:10Guest:Wasn't it a bus?

00:38:11Guest:Was it a bus?

00:38:11Guest:Were he pulling the hash off of him?

00:38:13Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:14Guest:So he's beat by beat.

00:38:15Guest:He's painting this picture for me.

00:38:16Guest:I said, I love it.

00:38:17Guest:And he goes, you know, the movie with the man with the hash.

00:38:19Guest:I'm like, oh, yeah.

00:38:19Guest:Midnight Express goes, yes.

00:38:21Guest:The actor, Brad David, goes, yes.

00:38:23Guest:And I'm just like literally finishing his sentences.

00:38:25Guest:And I'm like, I said, Alejandro, mira.

00:38:27Guest:I said, this is a beautiful scene, but that's not the scene in your screenplay.

00:38:31Guest:He goes, I'll fix it for you.

00:38:34Guest:And Alejandro's filled with so much damn passion, he cannot say no.

00:38:37Guest:If you're that passionate, I want to jump on a boat and be as passionate as you and help fulfill your passion.

00:38:43Guest:That's how you feel.

00:38:43Guest:It's a team effort.

00:38:45Guest:So we get there.

00:38:46Guest:And I've got a lot of police resources and stuff.

00:38:50Guest:You do?

00:38:51Guest:Yeah, that was the ride to hell.

00:38:53Guest:That was so scary.

00:38:54Guest:What?

00:38:56Guest:Because I get to LAX.

00:38:58Guest:They want to fly me coach.

00:39:00Guest:I'm like, wait a minute.

00:39:00Guest:Brad Pitt's in this movie.

00:39:02Guest:What do you mean I'm flying coaches?

00:39:03Guest:They've never flown me coach on any movie.

00:39:05Guest:Something's going on.

00:39:06Guest:It's a Mexican movie.

00:39:07Guest:I called my new managers.

00:39:08Guest:Oh, you got to watch out, dude.

00:39:09Guest:It's my people, my people.

00:39:10Guest:They're like, well, you're overreacting.

00:39:12Guest:I'm like, no, I'm not.

00:39:13Guest:Dot the I's and cross the T's.

00:39:15Guest:We're about to hit a shitstorm.

00:39:16Guest:Like, whatever.

00:39:17Guest:Calm down, Clifton.

00:39:18Guest:So I'm at Tucson Airport.

00:39:20Guest:It's tiny.

00:39:21Guest:Like, when you get there, they'll be waiting for you.

00:39:23Guest:I said, great.

00:39:24Guest:I get there.

00:39:25Guest:I'm like, hey guys, where's my driver?

00:39:26Guest:I'm like, oh, they said they're there.

00:39:27Guest:They've been there.

00:39:28Guest:I'm like, okay.

00:39:29Guest:So you do a 360 and you can see all the windows.

00:39:31Guest:Like, okay, they're not here.

00:39:33Guest:I wait 30 more minutes.

00:39:34Guest:They finally show up.

00:39:35Guest:This girl shows up, this overweight, bigger Mexican woman, probably in her 60s.

00:39:39Guest:Looks like she's ready to go to a quinceañera.

00:39:41Guest:So much makeup, so much perfume.

00:39:44Guest:And then they throw me in a white van with no windows.

00:39:46Guest:And it sure is used by the cartels for kidnappings when it's not a production van.

00:39:50Guest:I'm positive.

00:39:51Guest:Because the inside was really grimy.

00:39:52Guest:Like, ooh, people have tried to get out of this before.

00:39:54Guest:Come on.

00:39:55Guest:I'm telling you, this is what it looked like.

00:39:56Guest:And she's in the front passenger seat with the window open.

00:39:59Guest:And we're driving.

00:40:00Guest:I'm like, I thought I could get some food at the airport, but no, because it's so small.

00:40:03Guest:Okay, now we're driving.

00:40:04Guest:Maybe we'll stop and get some food.

00:40:06Guest:I noticed that the road is straight.

00:40:07Guest:Nothing but cactuses and rocks.

00:40:09Guest:I'm like, holy shit.

00:40:10Guest:So now it's starting to, I see the bars on my phone starting to go away.

00:40:13Guest:Like there is no food coming up anytime soon.

00:40:16Guest:I said, how far is the border?

00:40:16Guest:Like three hours.

00:40:17Guest:I said, oh my God.

00:40:19Guest:I said, what about food?

00:40:19Guest:Like there's nothing from here to there.

00:40:21Guest:So they flew you into Tucson to drive you to Mexico?

00:40:23Guest:Yeah.

00:40:25Guest:Which now they have an airport there.

00:40:27Guest:So you can fly into it.

00:40:27Guest:At the time they did not.

00:40:29Guest:Okay.

00:40:29Guest:So yes, I'm like, fine, I'll wait to get to the motherland.

00:40:31Marc:And she's working for the production.

00:40:32Guest:For the production.

00:40:33Guest:Yes.

00:40:34Guest:Yeah.

00:40:35Guest:You would think maybe not.

00:40:36Guest:Like maybe they snuck her in somehow.

00:40:37Guest:And I got to smell her perfume the whole time.

00:40:39Guest:Yeah.

00:40:39Guest:And I'm watching my bars disappear.

00:40:41Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:40:41Guest:I'm like, fuck, if a tire blows, we're fucked.

00:40:43Guest:Yeah.

00:40:43Guest:I've got a bag of like nuts and raisins that I won't tell them I have.

00:40:47Guest:Yeah.

00:40:47Guest:And I'll escape.

00:40:48Guest:Yeah.

00:40:48Guest:And I'll go back.

00:40:49Guest:I already had a plan.

00:40:50Guest:Yeah.

00:40:50Guest:If we roll and the tire blows because I won't have a signal.

00:40:53Guest:So I finally get there.

00:40:55Guest:I get to the hotel like, ah, Mr. Collins, you're not supposed to be here for another week.

00:40:59Guest:Okay, well, here I am.

00:41:00Guest:So what do we do?

00:41:01Guest:I do not know.

00:41:02Guest:I'm like, okay, please.

00:41:03Guest:Who's talking to you now?

00:41:04Guest:The head of the owner or the person at the hotel.

00:41:07Yeah.

00:41:07Guest:I'm like, so I'm like, so, okay.

00:41:10Guest:You got a room?

00:41:10Guest:Yeah.

00:41:10Guest:I'm like, here I am.

00:41:11Guest:So they put me in a room.

00:41:12Guest:There's no welcome basket.

00:41:13Guest:There's no script.

00:41:14Guest:There's no per diem.

00:41:15Guest:The phones, cables are yanked out of the wall.

00:41:18Guest:Oh my God.

00:41:19Guest:Yeah.

00:41:19Guest:So I'm Mexican.

00:41:20Guest:So I'm like, I can fix this.

00:41:21Guest:So I start reconnecting the wires and I get some kind of signal and it's still not working.

00:41:24Guest:So I go downstairs.

00:41:25Guest:You got to put money down.

00:41:26Guest:Here's my credit card.

00:41:27Guest:No credit card.

00:41:28Guest:Okay.

00:41:29Guest:Where's the ATM?

00:41:29Guest:No ATM.

00:41:30Guest:What?

00:41:30Guest:No ATM.

00:41:30Guest:Do you got room service?

00:41:32Guest:No room service.

00:41:32Guest:What?

00:41:33Guest:What the fuck's going on here?

00:41:34Guest:Where's Brad Pitt?

00:41:35Guest:Yeah.

00:41:36Where the fuck's Brad?

00:41:38Guest:So, so then they go, um, they finally get me the, uh, so I give them 50 bucks and they charge the fuck out of me.

00:41:44Guest:I call my man.

00:41:45Guest:I was like, yo, I, you have to change Verizon before you cross into Mexico.

00:41:50Guest:You can't do it once you get there.

00:41:51Guest:So it wouldn't work once I got there.

00:41:53Guest:So now I'm sure now it's different, but at the time, so I finally get a script and I go to Alejandro and he goes, Oh my God, he was right.

00:42:00Guest:I was supposed to fix that.

00:42:00Guest:He goes, Oh, I didn't.

00:42:01Guest:And I was like, I was like, that's cool.

00:42:03Guest:Well, he was busy.

00:42:03Guest:And I saw how slammed he was.

00:42:05Guest:So I let three days pass.

00:42:07Guest:And then I finally, I'd already shot him some versions of it that he liked.

00:42:10Guest:I said, dude, do you want me to just kind of tighten it up and write some shit?

00:42:12Guest:And like, it goes like X, Y, Z. Could you, could you?

00:42:15Guest:I'm like, fuck, don't worry, dude.

00:42:16Guest:Just keep doing what you're doing, bro.

00:42:18Guest:And what you see in the movie, even...

00:42:21Guest:You'll hear me repeat some dialogue, which is very typical of just police procedural.

00:42:26Guest:Yeah.

00:42:27Guest:It's very simple, short commands.

00:42:28Guest:Right.

00:42:28Guest:No monologues.

00:42:29Guest:Right.

00:42:30Guest:It's like, you know, stand up, sit down.

00:42:31Guest:Yeah.

00:42:31Guest:Hands up.

00:42:32Guest:Yeah.

00:42:32Guest:Nothing to confuse people.

00:42:34Guest:Yeah.

00:42:34Guest:So that's why you'll hear me repeat stuff, because when we finish that scene, he said, just repeat what you're saying.

00:42:39Guest:Like, cool.

00:42:39Guest:Okay.

00:42:39Guest:Yeah.

00:42:40Guest:So we did.

00:42:40Guest:And that, all that dialogue is the shit that I, I still have the writing at home.

00:42:44Guest:I keep all my stuff that I rewrite.

00:42:46Guest:Yeah.

00:42:47Marc:Just for the, for the.

00:42:48Marc:Jim Sheridan's films, Brothers.

00:42:49Guest:I wrote a bunch of stuff.

00:42:50Marc:Yeah.

00:42:51Marc:And you keep it just for.

00:42:53Marc:Just for fun to have.

00:42:54Marc:The papers.

00:42:55Marc:When the papers go to the, whoever gets your estate.

00:42:58Marc:Yeah.

00:42:58Marc:The library that gets all the papers.

00:43:00Marc:Perhaps.

00:43:01Marc:But, like, Pitt's whole—his section was totally different, right?

00:43:04Marc:Yeah.

00:43:05Marc:It was a different—like, almost a different story in a different place.

00:43:07Guest:It was.

00:43:08Guest:It wasn't Mexico, was it?

00:43:09Guest:Nope.

00:43:09Guest:I had Gael Garcia on my end, and— Yeah, that's right.

00:43:14Guest:I had some great, great people.

00:43:16Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:43:16Guest:But it was—just getting there was just, like, a very— It's crazy.

00:43:21Guest:It gets worse.

00:43:22Guest:It gets way worse.

00:43:22Marc:Really?

00:43:23Yeah.

00:43:23Marc:But this, but why, was that, it wasn't his first movie, was it?

00:43:28Marc:No, no.

00:43:29Guest:It was just the way it worked?

00:43:31Guest:It's just, anytime my people are involved, you can expect.

00:43:33Guest:But that's not always true.

00:43:34Guest:I mean, I can't imagine that Del Toro.

00:43:37Guest:Oh, you're right.

00:43:37Guest:No, no, no.

00:43:38Guest:The exceptions of Del, with the top, yeah, no, no, no.

00:43:40Marc:Because now those guys are friends and they are the big Mexican directors, right?

00:43:44Guest:For sure, yeah.

00:43:44Marc:But Del Toro, yeah.

00:43:46Marc:But del Toro seems very organized, dude.

00:43:49Marc:Yeah.

00:43:50Guest:Oh, for sure.

00:43:50Guest:Oh, del Toro is meticulous.

00:43:53Guest:Like, I've talked to that guy.

00:43:54Guest:I love Guillermo.

00:43:56Guest:Yeah.

00:43:56Guest:Right?

00:43:57Guest:Oh, I told him, I said, dude, I love you so much, you almost turned me gay.

00:43:59Guest:Yeah.

00:43:59Guest:That's how much I love you.

00:44:01Marc:Yeah.

00:44:01Marc:He's so, like, meticulous, yeah.

00:44:05Marc:And passion, passion, passion.

00:44:06Marc:Right, they're both very passionate, but it's different, right?

00:44:09Marc:It's a different type of passion.

00:44:10Marc:Alejandro's a little more rascally.

00:44:12Marc:Right.

00:44:13Marc:But he's like, you know, rascal.

00:44:14Marc:Right.

00:44:14Marc:But he also seems like he's, you know, he's a guy that's dealing with the whole world.

00:44:21Marc:And it seems like del Toro is the guy that's dealing with film.

00:44:25Marc:Do you know what I mean?

00:44:26Marc:I do.

00:44:27Marc:I do.

00:44:28Marc:They're both passionate, but like, you know, del Toro's total film nerd.

00:44:32Marc:And it seems like, how do you say his name in a root tube?

00:44:36Guest:I know I'm half Mexican, and I desecrate it every time.

00:44:40Marc:He just feels, it feels to me like, you know, it's like film never existed.

00:44:44Marc:You know, he's inventing film every time he does it.

00:44:47Guest:Well, he did stray from his genres in that last film.

00:44:50Guest:Yeah.

00:44:50Guest:Bardo's.

00:44:51Guest:I couldn't get through it.

00:44:52Guest:Oh, I loved it so much.

00:44:53Guest:I got to try again.

00:44:54Guest:It's just so abstract.

00:44:56Guest:So wonderfully and poetically abstract.

00:44:58Guest:I love The Revenant.

00:44:59Guest:Is that what it's called?

00:45:00Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:45:00Guest:I love that, too.

00:45:01Guest:That's fucking crazy.

00:45:02Guest:Oh, boy.

00:45:02Guest:Well, it's like I thought about that a couple of weeks ago.

00:45:04Guest:I thought, damn, they really made Leo work for that Oscar.

00:45:07Guest:Not like he wasn't deserving before for so many performances, but this one of all, like they really made him work his ass.

00:45:15Marc:And that of the other, everyone in that was pretty good.

00:45:17Marc:What was his name?

00:45:18Marc:Is it Tom?

00:45:19Marc:What's it?

00:45:19Marc:Tom Hardy.

00:45:20Marc:Tom Hardy was like, that guy is like, what the fuck is going on with that guy?

00:45:23Marc:Yeah.

00:45:23Marc:He's a beast.

00:45:24Marc:Yeah.

00:45:25Marc:Yeah.

00:45:25Marc:But a beast in the way that you respect and the way you are, where you, you know, you disappear into these things.

00:45:31Marc:Like who, where did that role even come from?

00:45:33Guest:How about Bronson?

00:45:34Guest:Yeah.

00:45:35Guest:Yeah.

00:45:35Guest:Bronson is something I watch every so often.

00:45:37Guest:Which one's that?

00:45:38Guest:Bronson's where he plays that famous inmate from, is it England?

00:45:43Guest:Yeah, England.

00:45:44Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:45Guest:I don't know if I've seen it.

00:45:46Guest:Oh, it's a magical indie.

00:45:48Guest:Oh, my God.

00:45:48Guest:It'll blow.

00:45:49Guest:If you were impressed by his work as an older actor, watch his stuff when he's young.

00:45:55Guest:Bronson, it's mind-boggling how good he is.

00:45:58Guest:I swear, you will just be, I've probably watched the film five times.

00:46:02Guest:Yeah.

00:46:03Guest:It's just mesmerizing.

00:46:05Guest:And it's a prison, so they don't speak to the general prison tropes.

00:46:09Guest:Yeah.

00:46:09Guest:And it gets very also abstract at times.

00:46:12Guest:Yeah.

00:46:13Guest:Not on the Bartos.

00:46:14Guest:Well, kind of.

00:46:15Guest:Yeah.

00:46:15Guest:When you watch it, you'll see.

00:46:16Guest:And they just do some beautiful, they take some artistic liberties that play so well into the psyche of what's going on to somebody that's been incarcerated for so long.

00:46:25Guest:Wow.

00:46:26Marc:What's his name again?

00:46:27Guest:Bronson.

00:46:28Marc:Yeah.

00:46:28Marc:What's the name of the actor?

00:46:29Marc:Tom Hardy?

00:46:30Marc:Yeah, Hardy.

00:46:31Marc:Yeah, my brain's going.

00:46:33Marc:I watched some, like, I watched some one where, like, I'm trying to, he's like, I don't even know, like, in The Revenant, like, what accent was that?

00:46:46Guest:Right.

00:46:47Guest:That's a good question.

00:46:48Guest:But also, you got to remember the time period.

00:46:50Guest:So the accents change and we don't have access to actual recordings of those accents.

00:46:56Marc:Then he did that weird Capone movie.

00:46:59Guest:Right.

00:46:59Guest:That was a stinker.

00:47:03Marc:Locke is the one.

00:47:04Marc:Locke is the movie I was thinking of.

00:47:06Marc:It's called Locke?

00:47:07Marc:It's called Locke.

00:47:08Guest:Oh, wow.

00:47:09Marc:Olivia Colman's in it.

00:47:11Guest:Oh, I love her.

00:47:11Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:47:12Marc:It's a weird little indie movie, and, you know, it's kind of a trip.

00:47:19Marc:It deals with a guy who has a one-night stand, and he's like, you know, you should watch it.

00:47:27Marc:It's all him.

00:47:27Marc:It's called Locke?

00:47:28Marc:L-O-C-K-E.

00:47:30Marc:It's all him.

00:47:30Guest:Okay, I'll probably watch it today.

00:47:32Marc:Like in a car.

00:47:33Marc:I'll probably watch when I get home.

00:47:33Marc:It's kind of a crazy movie.

00:47:36Marc:It sounds fun.

00:47:37Marc:But so when you work with Guillermo on Nightmare Alley, you did two movies with him, right?

00:47:43Marc:Pacific Rim.

00:47:44Marc:Yeah.

00:47:45Marc:But Nightmare Alley, this is like coming full circle around to, you know, your heritage.

00:47:50Marc:Yes, sir.

00:47:51Marc:And your grandfather.

00:47:52Marc:Yes, sir.

00:47:53Marc:It's very interesting because like, you know, when I was looking around and I looked up your grandfather, is that there's something similar about the nature of your careers.

00:48:02Marc:Yes.

00:48:02Marc:In that, you know, not so much, I don't know his acting work, but he did a lot of movies and he did a shit ton of little television.

00:48:09Marc:And you've done, he's just a working actor at some point, right?

00:48:13Marc:And it was sort of interesting that, you know, it skipped a generation, I guess, but, you know, here you are having a similar life.

00:48:20Marc:Yeah.

00:48:20Marc:Right?

00:48:21Guest:It's true.

00:48:21Guest:With the exceptions of he did a lot of because he came from a vaudevillian background.

00:48:26Guest:So you drew from that for your role in Nightmare Alley?

00:48:31Guest:I actually learned a lot about it because I started doing research and starting to kind of gather information to write his life story.

00:48:41Guest:Really?

00:48:41Guest:Yeah, and then Guillermo just put accelerant on it.

00:48:43Guest:Did he know your grandfather's work?

00:48:45Guest:He knows his work.

00:48:46Guest:He knows the history.

00:48:47Guest:Really?

00:48:48Guest:And more so, he sold the importance to me.

00:48:50Guest:He sat me down one day.

00:48:51Guest:We had dinner in his apartment just two doors down from mine.

00:48:54Guest:Everybody had left already.

00:48:56Guest:You know, like Pearlman had left and Willem Dafoe had left.

00:48:58Guest:Everybody had left.

00:48:59Guest:It was just Guillermo, me, and his girl.

00:49:01Guest:Yeah.

00:49:02Guest:And he sat me down.

00:49:03Guest:He wanted to watch the jockey trailers.

00:49:04Guest:We watched it.

00:49:05Guest:Yeah.

00:49:05Guest:And we'd been drinking a little bit of wine and cheese.

00:49:07Guest:Yeah.

00:49:07Guest:And then he sits down, he goes, Clifferton.

00:49:09Guest:What do you like to call me?

00:49:10Guest:Clifferton?

00:49:11Guest:Yeah.

00:49:12Guest:He goes, Clifferton, cabron, mira.

00:49:13Guest:He goes, you and your family, your legacy, mira, cabron.

00:49:16Guest:He goes, you're like the pinche Latino Barrymore family, cabron.

00:49:20Guest:And I said, no, I'm not worthy of that.

00:49:22Guest:He goes, no, cabron.

00:49:24Guest:He goes, you are.

00:49:25Guest:And he leans forward and he points.

00:49:26Guest:He's a big dude.

00:49:27Guest:Yeah.

00:49:27Guest:But he leans forward like he's going to lay hands on me.

00:49:29Guest:And I said, okay.

00:49:30Guest:I put my hands up.

00:49:31Guest:Okay, I am.

00:49:32Guest:I am.

00:49:32Guest:I said, but wouldn't that make me Drew Barrymore?

00:49:34Guest:Yeah.

00:49:35Guest:He's like, I don't know, you're right.

00:49:36Guest:But you can be wherever you want.

00:49:36Guest:I said, great.

00:49:37Guest:Maybe I'll be a grandpa Barrymore.

00:49:39Guest:Yeah.

00:49:40Guest:Yeah.

00:49:41Guest:Or great-grandpa Barrymore.

00:49:42Guest:Yeah.

00:49:42Guest:Because Ethel started in vaudeville as well.

00:49:45Marc:There was Ethel and Lionel and John.

00:49:47Guest:Lionel and Ethel and John.

00:49:48Guest:I think that was the big three there, right?

00:49:49Guest:That was the big three.

00:49:50Guest:You're absolutely right.

00:49:51Yeah.

00:49:51Marc:So, but you had more family that was in movies?

00:49:55Guest:No, but they were all part of the carpa scene.

00:49:57Guest:And carpa is Spanish for ragtop.

00:49:59Guest:And the carpa scene was basically Mexican rap top in Texas.

00:50:03Guest:What does that mean?

00:50:03Guest:A traveling show?

00:50:04Guest:Yes.

00:50:05Guest:Okay.

00:50:05Guest:So it was a tent that you could put up and put down and go to the next location.

00:50:10Guest:And that was your grandfather?

00:50:11Guest:That's how he started?

00:50:11Guest:That's how my great-grandmother started.

00:50:13Guest:Your great-grandmother.

00:50:14Guest:In Mexico.

00:50:15Guest:And then she had to escape when Pancho Villa declared war because...

00:50:19Guest:So Guillermo knew about your great-grandmother?

00:50:21Guest:He knew.

00:50:22Guest:He had ideas.

00:50:23Guest:He didn't really know.

00:50:25Guest:But since then, the research, I've found information in different artists' books, speaking about my great-grandmother, my great-uncle, my great-aunt.

00:50:33Guest:They were all in the carpa?

00:50:36Guest:Yeah, all of them were.

00:50:37Guest:They were from the carpa.

00:50:38Guest:So they were carnies?

00:50:39Guest:Yeah.

00:50:39Guest:Essentially.

00:50:40Guest:But my great-grandfather on my mother's side was a medicine man, a contortionist.

00:50:48Guest:He would find the location, get the paperwork done.

00:50:51Guest:So you did a lot of stuff.

00:50:53Guest:And in these situations, you often had two other entertainers that could do your routine in case you get sick or whatever.

00:51:00Guest:Right.

00:51:00Guest:So they could fill in for you.

00:51:01Guest:So that was sort of part of Nightmare Alley, the passing on.

00:51:04Guest:So as I was learning, they were kind of coming together.

00:51:07Guest:At the same time, coincidentally.

00:51:08Guest:Yeah, coincidentally, 100%, Mark.

00:51:11Guest:One can argue a coincidence.

00:51:13Guest:Is it really coincidence?

00:51:14Guest:That's where I feel like something else is.

00:51:17Guest:I get that sometimes.

00:51:18Guest:Okay, stop.

00:51:18Guest:I've got enough science.

00:51:19Guest:It gets creepy sometimes.

00:51:21Guest:Not sometimes.

00:51:21Guest:It gets creepy a lot.

00:51:22Marc:It gets creepy a lot until it goes away, and then you're like, uh-oh.

00:51:25Guest:It's still beautiful creepy, though.

00:51:26Marc:Did I fuck up?

00:51:26Marc:Where's the creepiness?

00:51:28Guest:No, I'm already in gay.

00:51:30Guest:I'm not going to stop because the voices or the things are.

00:51:33Marc:Okay, so that's your great-grandfather.

00:51:35Marc:So your grandfather started in that world as a kid?

00:51:39Guest:Yes, my great-grandfather, both my great-grandfather's and both my great-grandmother's.

00:51:43Guest:On my grandpa's side and my grandma's side.

00:51:47Guest:But this is all through your mother's family.

00:51:48Guest:Yes.

00:51:48Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:50Guest:So Micaela was my grandfather's mother.

00:51:53Guest:Yeah.

00:51:54Guest:And she was related to General Huerta.

00:51:56Guest:Yeah.

00:51:56Guest:So she was Micaela Huerta Gonzalez.

00:51:58Guest:Wow.

00:51:59Guest:And that's Pancho Villa's sworn enemy.

00:52:01Guest:Yeah.

00:52:01Guest:And she was dancing for Pancho's men.

00:52:03Guest:Yeah.

00:52:03Guest:Oh, wow.

00:52:03Guest:In the theater.

00:52:04Guest:yeah and the carpas yeah so when poncho or when we own poncho villa declared war um she's like i gotta get the fuck out of here yeah he's gonna kill me once they find out i'm related to huerta yeah so she bounced and came to texas yeah at 17 yeah and you didn't need a passport back then so right you paid a nickel that nickel was the ongoing bribe yeah and i just remember asking my grandma about this hey

00:52:25Guest:Grandma, tell me more about the thing and the nickel and the bribing and this.

00:52:28Guest:Was it like the Harriet Tubman's Underground Railroad?

00:52:31Guest:No, mijo.

00:52:32Guest:It wasn't nothing like that.

00:52:33Guest:What do you mean nothing like that?

00:52:34Guest:You just got in line and gave him a nickel.

00:52:36Guest:That's so not cinematic.

00:52:40Guest:So boring.

00:52:40Guest:It was just an open, corrupt bribing.

00:52:43Guest:No menace.

00:52:44Guest:Come on in.

00:52:45Guest:Pretty much nickel.

00:52:46Guest:Give me.

00:52:47Marc:Yeah.

00:52:47Marc:So, but you, but your grandfather, like he was like a studio actor.

00:52:53Marc:Yes.

00:52:53Marc:Wasn't he?

00:52:54Marc:And he couldn't read.

00:52:54Guest:Right.

00:52:55Guest:But he was used in Westerns.

00:52:57Guest:Yeah.

00:52:57Guest:John, he was, uh, under bat Jack productions, which was Duke's company.

00:53:00Guest:Oh, really?

00:53:01Guest:Uh-huh.

00:53:01Guest:So he did Real Bravo, High and the Mighty, Strange Lady in Town.

00:53:04Guest:He'd lend them out to other actors that had their own production company.

00:53:11Guest:Yeah.

00:53:11Guest:Like when he did work with Glenn Ford in The Sheep Men or Greer Garson in Strange Lady in Town.

00:53:15Guest:Right.

00:53:15Marc:And what are these parts?

00:53:16Marc:Because I can't, like, I saw Real Bravo, but, like, are they just the Mexican parts?

00:53:20Marc:Like, slightly stereotyped?

00:53:23Guest:Not Real Bravo.

00:53:25Guest:He owned the hotel.

00:53:25Guest:Oh, okay.

00:53:27Guest:And he brought Duke all the ammo at the end with the shotgun.

00:53:32Guest:Oh, okay.

00:53:32Guest:And he got in a fight, and he's the one that puts the blouse up to Duke.

00:53:37Guest:Oh, right, right.

00:53:37Guest:Duke would just take him off the leash.

00:53:39Guest:Duke just loved to have him around.

00:53:41Guest:Yeah.

00:53:41Guest:So he was buddies with John Wayne.

00:53:43Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:53:44Guest:Once Duke saw him on the Groucho Marx show, and then William Morris signed him, he did one film.

00:53:50Guest:He did the first 3D Western with Van Heflin called Wings of the Hawk.

00:53:54Guest:Yeah.

00:53:54Guest:And then after that, that's when Duke called.

00:53:56Guest:Yeah.

00:53:57Guest:He said, I want to put him under contract for like 10 years.

00:53:59Marc:Wild.

00:54:00Marc:Yeah.

00:54:00Marc:And that's where he did all the film and TV work?

00:54:02Marc:Because he was on Bonanza, and so he was working for Duke.

00:54:05Guest:Yeah.

00:54:05Guest:And Duke's brother directed him in something.

00:54:07Guest:Robert Wayne directed him in something they found called The Vault.

00:54:10Marc:No shit.

00:54:10Marc:Yeah?

00:54:11Marc:Yeah.

00:54:11Marc:So you're doing all this research and you're finding all this out and you're watching all the, you could probably see most of the stuff, most of the TV stuff even too, right?

00:54:19Guest:Not just, yeah, but I'm slowly getting my hands on some of it.

00:54:22Guest:I got a hold of the Jimmy Durante that he did with Robert Mitchum.

00:54:24Guest:Oh really?

00:54:25Guest:Oh yeah, it's beautiful.

00:54:26Guest:What is that?

00:54:27Guest:A Jimmy Durante show?

00:54:28Guest:Yes.

00:54:29Guest:A variety show?

00:54:30Guest:Yes.

00:54:30Guest:No shit.

00:54:31Guest:Oh, I've got to send it to you.

00:54:32Guest:Really?

00:54:32Guest:Because it's not on YouTube, but I have it.

00:54:34Guest:That's crazy, man.

00:54:35Guest:Yeah, it's fantastic.

00:54:35Guest:And he did Groucho Marx's show?

00:54:37Guest:Groucho Marx.

00:54:37Guest:So he's a real guy.

00:54:38Guest:Yeah.

00:54:40Guest:Groucho gave him a book, which my grandpa couldn't read, but I read.

00:54:44Guest:And he's the only person that he mentions out of the whole show.

00:54:47Guest:It helped raise his ratings because he was going to go off the air.

00:54:49Guest:Oh, really?

00:54:50Guest:Yeah.

00:54:50Guest:He calls Walter O'Keefe, who had a TV show, not a TV show, he had a radio show.

00:54:54Guest:Because, you know, from like 19, was it 45 to 55?

00:54:57Guest:Radio was like the big entertainment.

00:55:00Guest:So Walter O'Keefe had a show called Double or Nothing.

00:55:03Guest:I believe it was on NBC.

00:55:05Guest:And Groucho called me and said, I need some help, man.

00:55:07Guest:I said, my show, my ratings are going down.

00:55:09Guest:I'm too hard on the customers.

00:55:10Guest:And I need some help.

00:55:12Guest:Can you help me, buddy?

00:55:14Guest:And he got your granddaddy?

00:55:15Guest:Well, he did—Walter O'Keefe had done—he emceed a charity event for cerebral palsy at WOAI radio station in San Antonio, Texas.

00:55:24Guest:And my grandfather worked there.

00:55:26Guest:So he did everything.

00:55:27Guest:He was a crew guy, camera guy, ran cables, would pick up money, would do the show, the Dude Ranch show.

00:55:33Guest:He would do the comedian stuff.

00:55:34Guest:He would act.

00:55:35Guest:He did everything.

00:55:36Guest:Yeah.

00:55:36Marc:Yeah, wild.

00:55:38Marc:So you had a relationship with him, your grandfather?

00:55:41Guest:He was more of a dad than my dad was, yeah.

00:55:44Marc:Okay, so you were able to go right to the source for all this stuff, a lot of it.

00:55:49Guest:Actually, Joe Mantegna got me recording interviews on my grandfather probably 30 years ago.

00:55:55Guest:How did Joe Mantegna get you to do it?

00:55:58Guest:He told you to do it?

00:55:58Guest:He was like, Cliffy, he goes, you know, your grandpa, your grandpa's a legend, a legacy.

00:56:03Guest:You know, he's filled with stories that you gotta, you gotta get all that stuff on tape.

00:56:07Guest:You gotta record it.

00:56:07Guest:So he kind of, Joey kind of stayed on me for a little bit.

00:56:10Guest:I'm like, fine, Uncle Joey, fine, I will, I will.

00:56:13Guest:And I'm so grateful.

00:56:14Guest:Because it wasn't until the end of Nightmare Alley that for some reason I remembered that I videoed him.

00:56:20Guest:Because I had about seven hours of interviews from my grandmother.

00:56:23Guest:Because once that night that Guillermo told me that, I went back to my room and I went through all the hours of grandma and I made all these index cards.

00:56:30Guest:And when I finished, I went to bed.

00:56:32Guest:And then when I woke up, I realized, oh my God, I did those videos that Joey had me do.

00:56:35Guest:Yeah.

00:56:36Guest:So I got to go find those.

00:56:37Guest:30 years ago?

00:56:37Guest:97, 98.

00:56:39Guest:Uh-huh.

00:56:40Guest:Wow.

00:56:41Guest:And he found them?

00:56:41Guest:Yes, sir.

00:56:42Guest:I knew they were in two places.

00:56:43Guest:Yeah.

00:56:44Guest:It's one of two places.

00:56:45Guest:And I went and I found them.

00:56:46Guest:Wow.

00:56:47Guest:Got them all.

00:56:47Guest:Yes, sir.

00:56:48Guest:So what are you going to do with all this stuff?

00:56:50Guest:What are you going to do with your grandfather's life?

00:56:52Guest:Well, I'm making the origin story.

00:56:54Guest:You kind of look like him, right?

00:56:56Guest:That's what everybody keeps telling me.

00:56:57Guest:I've been trying to ignore it, but it's- You're going to play him?

00:57:00Guest:Yeah.

00:57:00Yeah.

00:57:00Guest:You see, I've kind of hesitant.

00:57:03Guest:I know once I hopped the fence.

00:57:05Guest:Yeah.

00:57:05Guest:But, yeah, I've been practicing his frying pans.

00:57:07Guest:What do you mean frying pans?

00:57:08Guest:Oh, that was one of his gigs.

00:57:10Guest:Because they were so poor, he'd take bottles and fill them with water and hang them.

00:57:13Guest:Yeah.

00:57:14Guest:I've got a picture.

00:57:14Guest:Hang them?

00:57:15Guest:Yeah, from an old lead pipe.

00:57:17Guest:Yeah, okay.

00:57:17Guest:Which I have the original lead pipe in my garage.

00:57:19Guest:Okay.

00:57:20Guest:And he would fill them with water.

00:57:21Guest:Yeah.

00:57:21Guest:And at a young age, from the age of seven, he started learning this.

00:57:23Guest:It's like a vaudeville trick.

00:57:25Guest:It was.

00:57:25Guest:Yeah.

00:57:26Guest:And then the frying pans, he had 24 skillets.

00:57:28Guest:Yeah.

00:57:29Guest:He played those?

00:57:30Guest:Yeah.

00:57:30Guest:Yeah, he'd play them and he'd bend the tail or he'd bend the handle to change the pitch.

00:57:36Guest:Yeah.

00:57:37Guest:And also with the hammer he learned later.

00:57:38Guest:Yeah.

00:57:39Guest:Which was hell on the family probably at least the last 15 years of his life because his hearing was going.

00:57:44Guest:Uh-huh.

00:57:45Guest:And so he would do shows like twice a year like in Wilcox, Arizona.

00:57:48Guest:He'd do the Rex Allen days or, you know, they still loved him at these certain places.

00:57:53Marc:Yeah.

00:57:53Guest:And they'd ask him.

00:57:54Guest:So you always knew when that time was coming because you hear him banging on these pans.

00:57:57Guest:Like, bang, bang, bang, bang.

00:57:59Guest:Bang, bang, bang, bang.

00:58:00Guest:Bang, bang.

00:58:00Guest:And it's real fucking loud.

00:58:01Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:58:02Guest:So it was like, oh, the Wilcox days is coming.

00:58:04Guest:Like, yeah, yeah, your grandpa's tuning up the pans.

00:58:05Guest:I'm like, oh, my God.

00:58:07Guest:Like, grandpa, you need to hear anything.

00:58:08Guest:No, you're crazy.

00:58:08Guest:You don't need to hear anything.

00:58:09Guest:We've heard that for years.

00:58:11Marc:And his whole life in Culver City?

00:58:13Marc:Yeah.

00:58:14Marc:No kidding?

00:58:14Marc:Yeah.

00:58:14Marc:And the family still got the property?

00:58:17Marc:Just sold it not that long ago.

00:58:18Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:58:18Guest:Yeah.

00:58:19Guest:Was that sad?

00:58:20Guest:It was sad.

00:58:21Guest:It was sad.

00:58:22Guest:Yeah, because I grew up in that home and I tap danced in that home from a young kid's age.

00:58:26Guest:You were a tap dancer?

00:58:28Guest:Yeah, I'm a hoofer.

00:58:29Guest:Yeah?

00:58:29Guest:Yeah, grandpa got me hoofing.

00:58:30Guest:Really?

00:58:30Guest:He did that too?

00:58:31Guest:Oh, yeah, he did.

00:58:32Guest:Oh, he would steal steps.

00:58:34Guest:He would steal steps all the time.

00:58:35Guest:He'd watch the Nicholas Brothers in New York at like 17 years old.

00:58:39Guest:Oh, back in the day.

00:58:40Guest:Because he got married.

00:58:41Guest:My grandma was 15.

00:58:41Guest:He was 17.

00:58:42Guest:And they hit the road.

00:58:43Guest:And they went on tour.

00:58:44Guest:And did vaudeville.

00:58:45Guest:Yeah.

00:58:46Guest:Went to New York to perform at the Hispano Theater.

00:58:48Guest:Yeah.

00:58:49Guest:So he was watching those guys.

00:58:50Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:58:51Guest:He would just watch and steal.

00:58:52Marc:They all knew each other?

00:58:53Marc:I don't know that he knew them.

00:58:54Marc:So there's a separate Mexican vaudeville or a Latino vaudeville?

00:58:58Marc:Uh-huh.

00:58:58Marc:I guess that makes sense.

00:58:59Guest:Yeah.

00:59:00Guest:There's a black one and there's a Chinese one as well.

00:59:02Marc:Well, the Carpas, is that what it's called?

00:59:04Marc:Well, for the Chinese... But that was like... Texas.

00:59:08Marc:That was essentially Mexican vaudeville?

00:59:11Marc:Pretty much.

00:59:12Marc:And it would tour as such?

00:59:13Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:59:14Marc:So, like, I wonder what the range was.

00:59:16Marc:How... Was it mostly...

00:59:18Marc:In the South?

00:59:20Marc:Or how far did Mexicans get it early on?

00:59:22Marc:Arizona, New Mexico.

00:59:26Guest:California, probably.

00:59:29Guest:California, one of his eldest sister got married to this guy named Walter Weber, who had some success creating...

00:59:38Guest:He wanted to do Mexican-American ragtops and they wanted to do it in English because my great-grandmother only spoke Apache and Spanish.

00:59:45Guest:And she didn't want to do it in English.

00:59:47Guest:You know, she was old school.

00:59:48Guest:She didn't like swing dancing.

00:59:50Guest:My grandpa was a crazy swing dancer.

00:59:51Guest:My grandma was too.

00:59:53Guest:They'd make money.

00:59:53Guest:They'd make ends meet with doing swing dancing.

00:59:55Marc:Wow, real hustle, man.

00:59:57Guest:They're real badass swing dancers.

00:59:58Marc:So what are you going to do?

01:00:00Marc:You're going to write a movie?

01:00:01Guest:I already wrote it.

01:00:02Guest:You did?

01:00:02Guest:Yeah.

01:00:03Guest:Guillermo's got it.

01:00:04Guest:Mike Judge has it.

01:00:05Guest:Roger Avery's got it.

01:00:06Guest:Mike Judge, that's interesting.

01:00:07Guest:Why that choice?

01:00:08Guest:Yeah, because he knew them and he's a dear friend.

01:00:10Guest:Oh.

01:00:11Guest:And I'm just trying to get... He knew them?

01:00:12Guest:What do you mean?

01:00:13Guest:Oh, we'd go...

01:00:15Guest:I'm like, yo, let's stop at my grandma's and get some breakfast burritos.

01:00:17Guest:Like, all right, let's go, man.

01:00:18Guest:Let's go get some breakfast burritos.

01:00:19Guest:Yeah.

01:00:20Guest:And then we go down.

01:00:20Guest:Holy shit.

01:00:21Guest:That's your grandma's breakfast burritos.

01:00:22Guest:Jesus Christ.

01:00:23Guest:Green chili.

01:00:24Guest:Oh, shit.

01:00:24Guest:Green chili.

01:00:25Marc:He grew up in New Mexico.

01:00:26Marc:Yeah.

01:00:27Marc:But he was there for a while.

01:00:28Guest:Yeah.

01:00:28Guest:How do you know him?

01:00:29Guest:I auditioned for Idiocracy.

01:00:34Guest:Yeah.

01:00:34Guest:And we just connected then, even though he didn't hire me.

01:00:36Guest:I was like, damn, I could totally hang out with Mike.

01:00:38Guest:Mike's fucking cool as shit.

01:00:39Guest:Yeah.

01:00:39Guest:And then I ended up doing Extract.

01:00:40Yeah.

01:00:41Guest:Where I get my ball blown off.

01:00:43Guest:My testicle.

01:00:45Marc:Just hanging by a thread.

01:00:48Marc:So how far along are you in this movie thing?

01:00:50Marc:So you got the script out to people.

01:00:53Guest:Uh-huh.

01:00:53Marc:And you want to direct it?

01:00:54Marc:Yes, sir.

01:00:55Guest:So you're looking for producers?

01:00:56Guest:Are you looking for money?

01:00:58Guest:Let's see what happens in the Guillermo camp.

01:01:00Guest:Yeah.

01:01:02Guest:Because he was such a strong influence and he knew Grandma as well.

01:01:05Guest:Yeah.

01:01:07Guest:He was like the one opinion that he cared about at the screening of Pacific Rim.

01:01:10Guest:Like he just went out.

01:01:12Guest:But then the same way Bennett Miller and Philip Seymour, rest in peace, were concerned about what my grandma and grandpa thought about.

01:01:17Guest:when they saw Capote at Sony Studios.

01:01:19Guest:Really?

01:01:20Guest:Yeah.

01:01:20Guest:Because why?

01:01:21Guest:Did she know him or something?

01:01:22Guest:They knew.

01:01:23Guest:Philip and Bennett knew who my grandpa was.

01:01:25Guest:But, you know, having worked with, like, Howard Hawks and Mervyn LeRoy and William Wellman and all the old greats.

01:01:30Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:33Guest:Like, they just beelined.

01:01:34Guest:They just kind of went past the audience and beelined straight.

01:01:37Guest:What did your grandpa say?

01:01:38Guest:I'm like, what?

01:01:39Guest:Okay.

01:01:40Guest:He loved it.

01:01:41Guest:He loved it.

01:01:41Guest:We're good.

01:01:42Guest:Yeah.

01:01:43Guest:Like, dude, what's going on?

01:01:44Guest:You can ask.

01:01:44Guest:I'll tell you.

01:01:47Guest:Wow.

01:01:47Guest:Yeah.

01:01:48Marc:It was pretty special.

01:01:49Marc:So you've been practicing the directing, though?

01:01:51Guest:You've been doing videos and shit?

01:01:52Guest:Well, I've done a bunch.

01:01:53Guest:I've done, like, everything from The Crowning Crows to Slash.

01:01:58Guest:But no features yet?

01:01:59Guest:No features yet.

01:02:00Guest:I love shooting.

01:02:01Guest:I love editing.

01:02:02Guest:I'm just kind of a horror for it.

01:02:03Guest:I just love the process.

01:02:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:04Guest:It's fun.

01:02:05Guest:Um, but I've recently, because I've got so much audio on grandma, I actually had grandma, um, narrate some of the beginning.

01:02:13Guest:Cause I didn't have the whole script ready yet, but we've talked about so much of it that I sat her down.

01:02:19Guest:I said, Wita, I said, Wita is what we would call her.

01:02:21Guest:Cause as children, we couldn't say Abuelita.

01:02:23Guest:Yeah.

01:02:23Guest:So we just say Wita or Wito.

01:02:25Guest:Yeah.

01:02:26Guest:Um, so we'd be like, Hey Wita.

01:02:27Guest:And as adults, we still called her that.

01:02:29Guest:Yeah.

01:02:29Guest:Wouldn't it be cool if you could actually be the person to narrate Wito's stories?

01:02:33Guest:That would be amazing.

01:02:34Guest:So I've got hours of her.

01:02:36Guest:So what I've been doing, I've been harvesting her voice for AI through Eleven Labs.

01:02:42Guest:Really?

01:02:43Guest:What's Eleven Labs?

01:02:44Guest:Eleven Labs is an AI.

01:02:46Guest:For voice Cloning Yeah Or voice recreation Yeah So I've been Isolating her voice And taking out My voice And any high pitches Yeah yeah And I upload it To this app Yeah And I can get her I can type what I want her to say Really?

01:03:01Marc:Yes sir

01:03:02Marc:How's it sound?

01:03:03Guest:Correct?

01:03:04Guest:Well, right now it's a little off, and I just found this little button where I can, because it says English, but then if you look on it, you can make it go to Mexican.

01:03:13Guest:Yeah.

01:03:14Guest:So for the Mexican accent, because grandma's got not a, she looked very white, but had a unique accent being from Texas.

01:03:20Guest:Yeah.

01:03:21Guest:In Texas, you never know.

01:03:21Guest:You're just like a straight up, like full blown KKK member.

01:03:26Guest:Yeah.

01:03:27Guest:Texan.

01:03:27Guest:And you could be full-blown, like, dark Mexican.

01:03:30Guest:Or you could be full-blown white-looking and have the thickest Mexican accent you've ever heard.

01:03:36Guest:So you just never know what you're getting.

01:03:38Guest:And that was the Jim Crow era, too.

01:03:40Guest:My grandma's youngest sister was the whitest.

01:03:42Guest:So if they were hard up for food, a lot of times they would roll the dice and have her go into the store to buy food and risk getting caught and possibly killed.

01:03:53Guest:Really?

01:03:53Guest:Yeah, my grandpa would stop.

01:03:54Guest:Like, let's not go into that one.

01:03:55Guest:That one's dangerous.

01:03:56Guest:Oh, really?

01:03:56Guest:Or that owner is known to fuck with Mexicans.

01:03:59Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:04:01Marc:So you want her to narrate, but it's not a documentary.

01:04:06Marc:It's an origin story.

01:04:07Guest:Yeah.

01:04:08Guest:And it pretty much ends when he gets signed by William Morris and leaves WAI.

01:04:14Guest:Okay.

01:04:15Guest:But that's interesting that you're using the AI.

01:04:18Guest:Well, I'm not 100% on that, but I want to have it ready in case.

01:04:21Guest:I like being prepared.

01:04:22Guest:People are just sort of like really just quickly adapting to it in a way that makes me nervous.

01:04:26Guest:No, I understand.

01:04:27Guest:But also technology grows exponentially.

01:04:29Guest:Yeah, I know.

01:04:30Guest:And we're already at that phase where it's already, I mean, it went from 30% for passing the bar on Monday and by Friday to like 100%.

01:04:37Guest:So we're at that phase of the trajectory.

01:04:40Guest:Of technology.

01:04:42Guest:You blink and it's already evolved.

01:04:44Guest:You blink again and the next thing you know it's living with you.

01:04:47Guest:You blink again.

01:04:47Guest:It's moving super fast.

01:04:49Marc:It's counting how many times you're blinking.

01:04:51Guest:Yeah, it's moving super, super fast.

01:04:53Marc:I've studied this.

01:04:54Marc:Is this good or bad in your mind?

01:04:55Guest:I think it's... It's inevitable?

01:04:58Guest:I think it's inevitable.

01:05:00Guest:Yeah.

01:05:00Guest:I mean, we've already heard the things that have happened.

01:05:02Guest:And look at the Boston Dianetics or the robots that they've been showing us.

01:05:06Guest:I always say, look, this is what they're showing you.

01:05:08Guest:Just think about what they're not showing you.

01:05:10Guest:And you were in Westworld.

01:05:11Guest:I was in Westworld.

01:05:12Guest:I was in Transcendence.

01:05:14Guest:If you study, if you watch Transcendence Man, the documentary about all the technology coming together.

01:05:19Guest:Because the internet's united.

01:05:21Guest:The singularity?

01:05:22Guest:Singularity, yes, sir.

01:05:24Guest:I studied that a bunch.

01:05:25Guest:Yeah, and what do you think of that?

01:05:26Guest:Scary.

01:05:27Guest:We have no choice.

01:05:28Guest:It's just... We have no choice because we let it happen.

01:05:33Guest:Yeah, I mean, you could live off the grid, you know, in the forest somewhere.

01:05:36Guest:You could do that.

01:05:37Guest:But then everybody's connected in a way that you're not.

01:05:41Guest:I don't know.

01:05:41Guest:It's really what matters to you.

01:05:42Guest:Yeah.

01:05:42Guest:We mean everyone's connected in a matrix-y kind of way?

01:05:45Guest:Well, in a sense, like anybody can text me or you.

01:05:48Guest:Sure, no, I get that.

01:05:49Guest:They can text us both or call us.

01:05:50Marc:But also, you know, we're part of algorithms and, you know, our desires are being mined and fed back to us through our choices we're making that are being sort of recorded and observed by pieces of equipment that we've grown to rely on.

01:06:03Marc:There's shit that I don't say.

01:06:05Marc:There's shit that I feel.

01:06:05Guest:You don't say around your phone?

01:06:07Guest:I don't say around my phone?

01:06:10Guest:I've had some ideas that I've never even uttered.

01:06:12Marc:Just because I... Well, yeah, they've got this stuff that they're picking up brainwaves now, dude.

01:06:18Marc:That's right.

01:06:19Marc:When I heard that about the brainwaves, I'm like, well, that goes to show you that we as humans are lazy in our appreciation and understanding of the way we communicate without talking.

01:06:29Marc:Like if the computer can pick up brainwaves and make images out of our brainwaves, you're going to tell us that other people can't do that as well?

01:06:37Marc:I mean, right?

01:06:38Marc:Sure.

01:06:38Guest:Sure.

01:06:39Guest:But also there's other senses like, you know, body language.

01:06:41Guest:Sure.

01:06:42Guest:That doesn't need to be verbalized.

01:06:44Guest:Yeah.

01:06:44Guest:And you can tell when your girlfriend comes up.

01:06:46Guest:You know, when she's mad at you, you know she's happy.

01:06:47Guest:Right.

01:06:48Guest:Or you know when she's had a bad day.

01:06:48Guest:I guess you do feel that.

01:06:49Guest:Yeah.

01:06:50Yeah.

01:06:50Marc:Well, that aside, I hope that you make the movie.

01:06:54Marc:And what is this?

01:06:56Marc:You're a writer, too?

01:06:56Marc:You wrote a book?

01:06:58Guest:I did.

01:06:59Guest:Prison Ramen.

01:07:00Guest:Yeah, what is that?

01:07:01Guest:I donate 20% of the proceeds to Homeboy Industries.

01:07:04Guest:Sure, man.

01:07:04Guest:Father Greg.

01:07:05Guest:Yeah, Father Greg.

01:07:05Guest:You know Father Greg?

01:07:06Guest:I love Father Greg.

01:07:08Guest:Father Greg and all the homeboys and all the homegirls over there.

01:07:10Guest:It's such a beautiful, it's a magical place.

01:07:12Guest:Yeah.

01:07:13Guest:Because I did grow up around a lot of gang activities as a young kid.

01:07:17Guest:In Culver City?

01:07:18Guest:Culver City, Inglewood, Watts, South Central.

01:07:21Guest:Yeah.

01:07:21Guest:Been shot at three times.

01:07:23Guest:You have?

01:07:23Guest:I got out of three carjackings.

01:07:25Guest:Yeah.

01:07:26Guest:I think I got two lives left.

01:07:27Guest:Yeah.

01:07:28Guest:I'm guessing.

01:07:28Guest:That's pretty good.

01:07:30Guest:I'm cool with that.

01:07:31Marc:At 52?

01:07:31Marc:You're 52?

01:07:32Marc:Yeah.

01:07:32Guest:Two lives should get you through.

01:07:33Yeah.

01:07:33Guest:i'm with you i'm so with you i'm happy i'm happy yeah yeah yeah so uh so i remember the first time walking in there i uh to homeboy yeah and to homeboy industries i saw a latino i saw north siders south siders white gangsters you know black gangsters and i was like oh shit it's about to go down i went straight to my fight or flight yeah i put my back against the wall i knew where the exits were yeah and then and then i i realized like oh my god everybody's here to be in of service yeah and my

01:08:01Guest:eyes just watered up and I was trying to hold the tears back because I don't want them to see me breaking.

01:08:06Guest:Because I realized how much love was in the room.

01:08:09Guest:I was overwhelmed by the love.

01:08:11Guest:It was beautiful.

01:08:12Guest:And I sat down with Father G. He gave me a recipe.

01:08:15Guest:So yeah, a childhood buddy of mine

01:08:17Guest:I had done some time, and I went to go visit him after the Chino riots.

01:08:21Guest:I was, like, one of the first people there.

01:08:22Guest:In prison?

01:08:23Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:08:23Guest:Yeah.

01:08:23Guest:And I went to go visit him, and seven out of the eight cubicles, when you're getting ready to transfer, he was a clerk at that time because he had done a lot of time, and he had that stature.

01:08:35Guest:But he was the last module to not get burned.

01:08:37Guest:So even when I was sitting with him on the yard, you could still smell the burning embers, the wood.

01:08:42Guest:Like, you know, forest burns.

01:08:43Guest:You smell it.

01:08:44Guest:I could still smell it.

01:08:45Guest:When was that?

01:08:45Guest:Was that Uprising?

01:08:46Guest:Yeah.

01:08:46Guest:A riot?

01:08:47Guest:Yeah, it was a riot.

01:08:48Guest:It was a riot.

01:08:50Guest:And it was a warden that wasn't paying attention to the house rules, as we say.

01:08:55Guest:And they paid the price for it.

01:08:56Guest:And then he got removed.

01:08:59Guest:Yeah, but I've got photos of like Schwarzenegger walking through the prison and blood on mattresses and broken porcelain sinks.

01:09:05Guest:Those prison riots are nasty.

01:09:06Guest:Oh, they're totally.

01:09:07Guest:And it could have been prevented, but just arrogance.

01:09:10Guest:So your buddy survived.

01:09:12Guest:He did.

01:09:13Guest:And we took from his diary, I selected a handful of stories which were very engaging.

01:09:18Guest:Yeah.

01:09:19Guest:And then we just polished them.

01:09:20Guest:We polished them while I was doing this pilot in North Carolina.

01:09:23Guest:I had left my computer at home.

01:09:25Guest:Like I had that visual when I was on the plane going, oh, shit, it's charging on my table.

01:09:29Guest:How am I going to do the rewrites?

01:09:30Guest:Right.

01:09:31Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:31Guest:On my damn phone.

01:09:32Guest:My thumbs were so fucking sore, Mark.

01:09:34Guest:Yeah, but it's weird that you can make the adjustment, right?

01:09:37Guest:Well, you're driven.

01:09:38Marc:Yeah, I know, but there's always something.

01:09:42Guest:Yeah, and you did it?

01:09:43Guest:I did.

01:09:45Guest:Even Goose was like, yo, buddy, you look pretty tired, man.

01:09:48Guest:Why don't we just do this polish tomorrow?

01:09:49Guest:I'm like, no, dude, we got to mow it through.

01:09:51Guest:Tomorrow's an easy scene.

01:09:52Guest:They got makeup for me.

01:09:53Guest:Don't worry about it.

01:09:53Guest:We got to finish this.

01:09:55Guest:And you did it?

01:09:56Guest:Yeah.

01:09:56Guest:And what is the book?

01:09:57Guest:It's just his, it's edited versions of his writing?

01:10:00Guest:It is edited.

01:10:02Guest:There's, they're all original ramen recipes from prison.

01:10:05Guest:Yeah.

01:10:05Guest:They're all very real recipes.

01:10:07Guest:And then with every recipe, we affiliate a story.

01:10:11Guest:Yeah.

01:10:12Guest:You know, in hopes that the youth will pick up on it.

01:10:15Guest:What's the recipes?

01:10:17Guest:Just all ramen.

01:10:18Guest:And ramen's taken over as a force.

01:10:21Marc:So it's all prison.

01:10:22Marc:It's for prison.

01:10:23Marc:Like that's what they can do in their cell.

01:10:25Marc:Okay.

01:10:26Guest:Yeah.

01:10:26Guest:And it's different in different prisons because some prisons allow farming.

01:10:29Guest:Others do not.

01:10:31Guest:Some prisons allowed extra stuff from the outside.

01:10:34Guest:Others do not.

01:10:35Guest:So it really depends.

01:10:36Guest:And it changes throughout.

01:10:37Guest:And it's a quick, fun read.

01:10:38Guest:And I had so many friends come to help.

01:10:41Guest:I mean, Sam Jackson did the intro.

01:10:42Guest:Oh, wow.

01:10:43Guest:And Father G and Shia LaBeouf and Taron Manning.

01:10:46Guest:Have you worked with that Shia fella?

01:10:48Guest:Clancy Brown.

01:10:49Guest:Yes, sir.

01:10:49Guest:I did two things with Shia.

01:10:51Guest:I did Honey Boy, which is a very special film.

01:10:53Marc:I saw that movie.

01:10:54Marc:Wait, hold on.

01:10:55Marc:Who were you in that?

01:10:55Guest:I played his counselor.

01:10:57Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:10:57Guest:Okay.

01:10:57Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:58Guest:That was like the one positive role model he had in his entire life.

01:11:01Guest:Right.

01:11:01Guest:Jeez, man.

01:11:02Guest:You're everywhere.

01:11:03Guest:Yeah, it was special.

01:11:05Guest:Yeah, that guy's intense, man.

01:11:06Guest:He is intense.

01:11:08Guest:You know, I think all great artists, we have our demons, and they get off our leashes a lot of times.

01:11:13Marc:I think he is a very good, gifted guy.

01:11:15Guest:He's insanely gifted, and he's very...

01:11:19Guest:It's just hard when you can't control your emotions.

01:11:23Guest:One of the things.

01:11:23Marc:If you can't control one of the things.

01:11:25Guest:You know what I mean?

01:11:25Guest:You go through these traumas.

01:11:26Guest:It's a problem.

01:11:27Guest:If you can't control two or three, you're in trouble.

01:11:29Guest:You're right, brother.

01:11:30Guest:You're right.

01:11:31Guest:Well, then you got to be good at getting out of trouble and getting in and getting out of trouble.

01:11:35Guest:You have to go to the place to make up for it.

01:11:38Guest:Yeah, he's gotten out of trouble quite a few times successfully, and I'm thankful.

01:11:42Guest:But just like Dennis Hopper, Dennis, you've been like—

01:11:46Guest:You've been blacklisted three times.

01:11:48Guest:I said, how do you come back?

01:11:49Guest:You're an easy rider, and then you came back with Blue Velvet, and you came back.

01:11:52Guest:He's like, you know what, you know, Gonzalez, honestly, they said I was difficult to work with.

01:11:59Guest:And I was like, really?

01:12:01Guest:He's like, yeah.

01:12:02Guest:I said, oh, were you?

01:12:05Guest:Yeah, I was.

01:12:07Guest:I said, oh, well, why?

01:12:08Guest:He goes, because I, you know, Jimmy, James Dean, you know, Jimmy and Monty, Montgomery Clift, love to do their own blocking.

01:12:16Guest:And I'm not Jimmy or Monty.

01:12:18Guest:I was like, duly noted.

01:12:20Guest:Okay.

01:12:21Guest:Because Dennis and my grandpa were contract players under Duke.

01:12:25Guest:Dennis, my grandfather, James Dean, Nick Adams, Alfalfa from Little Rascals.

01:12:32Guest:They were all under Bat Jack.

01:12:33Guest:Really?

01:12:34Guest:So when did you meet Dennis Opry?

01:12:37Guest:I met Dennis in 91 on a Paul Schrader film.

01:12:41Guest:Which one?

01:12:42Guest:It was called Witch Hunt?

01:12:45Guest:I think it was called Witch Hunt.

01:12:47Guest:It was that famous author that I love.

01:12:50Guest:Not H.P.

01:12:50Guest:Lovecraft.

01:12:51Guest:Was it H.P.

01:12:51Guest:Lovecraft?

01:12:52Guest:I don't know.

01:12:52Guest:I think it was.

01:12:53Guest:Witch Hunt.

01:12:54Marc:Yeah.

01:12:55Marc:I don't know about this movie.

01:12:56Marc:Yeah, and Paul Schrader.

01:12:58Marc:Wow, it's a Paul Schrader movie I never heard of.

01:13:00Marc:Yeah.

01:13:00Marc:It's you and Boghossian, Debbie Mazur.

01:13:03Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:13:04Guest:Penelope M. Miller.

01:13:05Guest:It was great to obviously work with a legend like Paul Schrader at that young of an age because I was very well aware of who he was.

01:13:12Guest:Yeah.

01:13:12Guest:I knew all kinds of history about him, which surprised him.

01:13:15Guest:But the fact that Debbie Mazur was in it was my, like, Debbie Mazur's in it, I'm doing it.

01:13:19Guest:Yeah, she was something.

01:13:21Guest:Oh, I had the hugest crush on her.

01:13:23Guest:And then, uh...

01:13:23Guest:I ended up dating her years later.

01:13:25Guest:You did?

01:13:25Guest:I did.

01:13:26Guest:I still got a Polaroid that I took from, or actually that makeup gave me.

01:13:31Guest:Yeah.

01:13:31Guest:I was like, oh my God, Dave Mazur.

01:13:33Guest:I said, can I have this?

01:13:34Guest:Like, yeah, I still have it.

01:13:35Guest:I still have it.

01:13:36Guest:And then Dennis and I would stay friends like through the whole thing.

01:13:39Guest:whole thing.

01:13:40Guest:We were pretty tight, actually.

01:13:41Guest:Yeah?

01:13:42Guest:Yeah, I loved hanging out with Dennis.

01:13:43Guest:It was... Uncle Dennis was cool.

01:13:44Guest:I went to his funeral in Taos.

01:13:46Guest:Yeah, my buddy's married to his daughter.

01:13:48Marc:Oh, really?

01:13:49Marc:Steve Brill.

01:13:49Marc:Do you know Steve Brill?

01:13:51Guest:I don't know.

01:13:51Guest:Maybe.

01:13:52Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:13:52Guest:Maybe my face.

01:13:52Marc:I went out to the grave when I was in Taos last.

01:13:55Marc:Oh, the penitente.

01:13:56Marc:Yeah.

01:13:57Guest:Yeah.

01:13:58Marc:Something, man.

01:13:58Marc:Penitente.

01:13:59Guest:That's a real old-timey graveyard there.

01:14:02Guest:Well, a lot of people don't know that penitente exists out there.

01:14:05Guest:I was doing transcendent at the time, and Rebecca Hall's brother had flown in from England in attempts to do a penitente documentary.

01:14:12Guest:Well, I grew up in New Mexico.

01:14:14Marc:So the penitentes up by Algodones and... So you knew about this?

01:14:19Marc:Well, I know about the penitentes.

01:14:21Marc:What are you talking about exactly?

01:14:22Guest:I mean, they've been around a long time.

01:14:24Guest:Yeah.

01:14:24Guest:Well, he couldn't find anything.

01:14:26Guest:Who couldn't find anything?

01:14:27Guest:Rebecca Hall's brother.

01:14:29Marc:So you're telling me that... It was secretive.

01:14:32Marc:Right.

01:14:33Marc:But Dennis, that's a penitente cemetery?

01:14:35Guest:Yes.

01:14:35Guest:Okay.

01:14:36Guest:And Robbie Romero, his godson, who's Apache, Dennis asked him to get special permission from the high priestess.

01:14:45Guest:He was like, huh?

01:14:46Guest:High priestess?

01:14:46Guest:What are you talking about?

01:14:48Guest:Penitente.

01:14:48Guest:Huh?

01:14:49Guest:Penitente here?

01:14:50Marc:in Taos?

01:14:51Marc:He was like, yes.

01:14:51Marc:Why wouldn't they be?

01:14:52Marc:It's all over New Mexico, right?

01:14:53Marc:Isn't that where most of it is?

01:14:54Marc:I don't know.

01:14:55Marc:I mean, most, from my recollection, they were out by Española, Algodones, but it was like, you know, that it's the sort of yearly Catholic beating the shit out of yourself thing, right?

01:15:07Guest:Well, they did have two strong, well, you've been there, so you know there's two buildings at the entrance.

01:15:11Guest:Where?

01:15:12Guest:At

01:15:12Guest:At the cemetery?

01:15:13Guest:And one's a stronghold that has, like, the people and the guns and this and that.

01:15:18Guest:And it looks like it's empty, but it's not.

01:15:20Guest:They're constantly watching.

01:15:21Guest:So be really careful what you do.

01:15:23Guest:Right.

01:15:23Guest:Yeah, because we went a year later for Robbie to do the Four Prayers to the North, South, East, and West.

01:15:28Guest:So he did a full-blown Apache...

01:15:30Marc:So what are the penitentes in your understanding?

01:15:35Guest:I started to do a little bit of research.

01:15:37Guest:It comes from Spain.

01:15:38Guest:You get the flogging and all of that stuff.

01:15:40Guest:So from what I understand, it still happens, but who knows?

01:15:42Guest:I don't really know.

01:15:43Guest:And neither did Robbie at the time.

01:15:45Guest:He grew up there.

01:15:46Guest:So it was very secret.

01:15:48Guest:And what was Hopper's relationship with them to get buried there?

01:15:51Guest:I don't really know.

01:15:52Guest:Neither did Robbie.

01:15:53Guest:Because Robbie was shocked.

01:15:54Guest:when he heard it.

01:15:55Guest:He was like, what do you mean?

01:15:56Guest:This is like the first thing we're having this conversation.

01:15:59Marc:He grew up with Dennis.

01:16:00Marc:Because it's a fairly nondescript grave other than what people leave there.

01:16:03Marc:The beautiful crucifix.

01:16:05Marc:All of it, yeah.

01:16:06Marc:And then people just go as a pilgrimage and seem to leave stuff there.

01:16:10Marc:I don't know when the last time you were there was.

01:16:12Marc:I was there like a year ago.

01:16:13Marc:Oh, wow.

01:16:13Marc:And it's just covered with stuff.

01:16:15Marc:Like little motorcycles.

01:16:16Guest:All that kind of shit.

01:16:17Guest:Easy rider stuff.

01:16:17Guest:Sure.

01:16:18Guest:Yeah, I'd been there twice.

01:16:21Guest:The first time I went, we were followed by a line of choppers because they circled the church during the whole ceremony.

01:16:28Guest:Oh, you mean when you were there at the funeral?

01:16:29Guest:Yeah, Henry was speaking and Jack Nicholson was next to me and he was...

01:16:34Guest:Oh, Nicholson came out?

01:16:35Guest:Yeah, it was beautiful to have him.

01:16:37Guest:He came out for the star ceremony as well, and was very friendly, was waving at all the tourists, like you never see Jack.

01:16:43Guest:Just so open-hearted, like the way you've never seen him.

01:16:45Guest:You work with him?

01:16:46Guest:I have not.

01:16:47Guest:I would love to.

01:16:48Guest:I think he's done.

01:16:51Guest:Yeah, possibly.

01:16:53Guest:So we were just circled by these motorcycles, and they came to the funeral, and they let them in.

01:16:57Guest:to the Penitenti Cemetery.

01:16:59Guest:And I just remember Jack turning around and he goes, as they started to lower Dennis in a pine, a literal pine box like you see in the old West movies.

01:17:06Guest:Well, it's like the Jews do that.

01:17:08Guest:Really?

01:17:08Guest:Pine boxes.

01:17:09Guest:Oh, I didn't know that.

01:17:09Guest:Okay, full blown.

01:17:10Guest:So they're starting to lower it.

01:17:11Guest:And then Jack turns around and goes, give them hell, boys.

01:17:15Guest:And so they did a 21 rev salute.

01:17:17Guest:Yeah.

01:17:17Guest:Wrong.

01:17:18Guest:Yeah.

01:17:18Guest:Wrong!

01:17:20Guest:It was heavy.

01:17:21Guest:And Val Kilmer was there.

01:17:23Guest:Well, he's living in Santa Fe at the time.

01:17:24Guest:Yeah, it was.

01:17:25Guest:It was great to run into him there.

01:17:28Marc:Did Gene Hackman come up or anybody?

01:17:29Guest:I didn't see Gene Hackman.

01:17:31Guest:But so many of his friends were there.

01:17:34Marc:Did Fonda?

01:17:36Guest:Seymour Cassell was there.

01:17:37Guest:Fonda did not come to the star ceremony, nor the funeral.

01:17:40Guest:And I'd worked with him a few times afterwards.

01:17:42Guest:Yeah.

01:17:43Guest:I felt really bad because I was so close to Dennis.

01:17:45Guest:Yeah.

01:17:46Guest:And I was such a fan of Easy Riders.

01:17:48Guest:Yeah.

01:17:48Guest:But then when I started to, he started to tell me about Henry and the book that he wrote.

01:17:53Guest:Henry.

01:17:54Guest:Oh, Fonda.

01:17:55Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:17:56Guest:And he started telling me about the book.

01:17:57Marc:Who, this is, Peter.

01:17:59Guest:Peter told you, yeah.

01:17:59Guest:Yeah, he said, it's called Don't Tell Daddy, I think it's called.

01:18:02Guest:And when I learned about the trauma that he'd gone through, I just gave him a straight pass.

01:18:07Guest:I'm like, I can't hold anything against him.

01:18:09Guest:I don't know what their history is.

01:18:11Guest:Oh, about Peter?

01:18:12Guest:Between Peter and Dennis.

01:18:13Guest:I mean, I know what Dennis has told me and shared.

01:18:15Guest:And I know what I've read and I know what I've heard from other people.

01:18:17Guest:But after you heard Peter's story.

01:18:19Guest:About what he went to his dad.

01:18:20Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:18:21Guest:I was like, okay, I got to like.

01:18:23Guest:Yeah, guys, he had problems, dude.

01:18:25Guest:Yeah, Henry was not cool.

01:18:28Guest:Not cool?

01:18:28Guest:No, it was bad.

01:18:29Guest:I think that's where that whole Rebel thing came from, you know?

01:18:32Guest:Sure, man.

01:18:32Guest:Because even before Easy Riders, he had the Hell's Angels?

01:18:36Guest:I think the Corman movie, right?

01:18:36Guest:No, Wild Angels.

01:18:37Marc:Was it Corman movie?

01:18:38Guest:Was it Roger Corman, maybe?

01:18:39Guest:Yeah, was it called Wild Angels?

01:18:41Guest:I don't know.

01:18:41Guest:I don't—it just sounds like— It was a biker—that's where Satanism was big.

01:18:44Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:18:45Guest:So you were like, oh, the Satanic, like, ooh.

01:18:47Guest:Yeah, that's— I was like, oh, God, Satan.

01:18:48Guest:The B-movie biker movie.

01:18:50Guest:Yeah.

01:18:50Guest:The B-biker movie.

01:18:50Guest:I love those things.

01:18:52Guest:Yeah.

01:18:52Guest:It was great talking to you, buddy.

01:18:54Guest:Oh, my God.

01:18:54Guest:It was such a joy.

01:18:55Guest:I was so excited.

01:18:57Guest:This is the highlight of my week.

01:18:58Guest:Oh, good, man.

01:18:59Guest:No, I was so sad when I couldn't make it that first.

01:19:02Guest:I'm like, oh, my God.

01:19:03Guest:I watched all the specials.

01:19:04Guest:I watched all of Mark's stuff.

01:19:06Marc:It was so funny because I'm like, what happened?

01:19:08Marc:He's like, he fell off his bike.

01:19:10Marc:Literally a bicycle, not a motorcycle, a bike.

01:19:14Marc:Yeah, literally fell off his bike.

01:19:16Marc:And now we know two blocks, a block from his house.

01:19:18Marc:Not even.

01:19:19Marc:It was in front of my driveway.

01:19:20Guest:Oh, wow.

01:19:21Guest:I like the gate was still open.

01:19:22Guest:It hadn't closed yet.

01:19:23Guest:It was a crack.

01:19:24Guest:I was like, okay, not going to the gym today.

01:19:26Marc:Well, I hope the full recovery is on the horizon.

01:19:29Marc:Yeah, we're good in a couple weeks here.

01:19:30Marc:Thanks, buddy.

01:19:31Marc:All right, brother.

01:19:37Marc:There you go.

01:19:37Marc:You can watch Jockey currently on Starz and you can rent or buy it on streaming video platforms like Apple and Amazon.

01:19:45Marc:And it is a very specific, very personal and very, you know, it's kind of a heavy, beautiful movie.

01:19:54Marc:I recommend it highly.

01:19:56Marc:OK, look, hang out for a minute, will you?

01:20:00Marc:Okay, folks, in case you missed it, we dropped an episode in the free feed yesterday called The Full Marin Year One.

01:20:07Marc:If you aren't already subscribed to The Full Marin, this is a collection of some of the bonus material we've been posting every week for the past year.

01:20:15Marc:So go take a listen and then sign up for the full Marin by clicking the link in the episode description.

01:20:20Marc:And if you have a full Marin subscription, you can hear the latest episode that went up on Tuesday.

01:20:25Marc:It's me and Kit talking about Godzilla.

01:20:28Guest:I don't think that Americans are equipped to understand that Godzilla is...

01:20:33Guest:Godzilla means a lot.

01:20:36Guest:Every American Godzilla movie, he's just a silly dinosaur.

01:20:40Guest:Or there's an overwrought plot in the new Legendary Pictures movies.

01:20:45Guest:There was a Godzilla in 2014.

01:20:48Guest:And then a Godzilla in 2019 that I saw at a drive-in movie theater.

01:20:53Marc:And no good?

01:20:54Guest:It was fun to see it at a drive-in movie theater, but no, it was crap.

01:20:58Guest:There's this plot in the American movies that they're still making that Godzilla is an ancient alpha predator from an ancient race of alpha predators called titans, and there were dinosaur titans, and there were ape titans, and they all lived at the center of the earth and were worshipped by humans.

01:21:20Guest:It's stupid.

01:21:21Guest:Yeah.

01:21:21Marc:It's a lot of backstory.

01:21:22Guest:Why do you need all that shit?

01:21:24Marc:Sounds like Scientology.

01:21:27Marc:I know.

01:21:28Marc:Again, go to the link in the episode description to sign up or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+.

01:21:36Marc:Here we go.

01:21:37Marc:I think I'm finally, I think Rory Gallagher is seeping in.

01:21:42Marc:That's all I can say.

01:21:59guitar solo

01:22:33guitar solo

01:23:00guitar solo

01:23:33guitar solo

01:24:21guitar solo

01:24:53Marc:Boomer lifts.

01:24:57Marc:Monkey La Fonda.

01:24:59Marc:Cat angels everywhere.