Episode 144 - Patton Oswalt
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:Knicks?
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:Knots?
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:Skis?
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:Ricans?
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:Canadians?
Marc:I don't want to start this again.
Marc:I am Mark Marin.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:I appreciate your name suggestions.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Let me get a little business out of the way before we get into the show today on the show.
Marc:By the way, Patton Oswalt will be here in the garage.
Marc:All right, I've had my problems with Pat in the past, but deep down, I love the guy.
Marc:I like his comedy.
Marc:He's a smart guy.
Marc:Yeah, I got to admit to being a little resentful at some point, but I don't think you'll find that surprising.
Marc:But he's going to be here.
Marc:We're going to talk.
Marc:He's got a new book out.
Marc:But he's not here to plug the book.
Marc:He's here to talk to me.
Marc:That's the way I see it because I'm not a plug fest over here.
Marc:So let me plug some stuff.
Marc:Did I mention the apps?
Marc:We've got the WTF app for iPad, iPhone, and Android.
Marc:And if you upgrade to the premium, you will get free bonus content along with every episode.
Marc:And this is stuff that we didn't release before.
Marc:It's stuff from the special premium donors CD, Best of WTF Volume 1.
Marc:So you'll get that if you upgrade to premium on the apps.
Marc:Also, since there are a lot of new people out there listening to the show because of what's been going on lately, we do work on sort of a donation system here at WTF.
Marc:If you like the show and you want to support the show, you can go to WTFPod.com and kick in a few shekels.
Marc:You can do a $10 a month thing, and I'll send you a T-shirt and some stickers.
Marc:Or you can do the super premium package where you donate a one-time donation of $250.
Marc:You will get a Scream T-shirt, a Cat T-shirt, my three CDs, the best of WTF CDs, some stickers, a postcard, and a secret decoder ring.
Marc:And my love forever, my undying love.
Marc:Or you can donate whatever you want.
Marc:You can make a donation of any amount you would like.
Marc:I would like all of you right now who are listening,
Marc:every one of you just to go donate ten dollars all of a sudden i'm soupy sales soupy sales on his children's show asked everyone to go and get some money out of your mommy and mommy's purse and send it to uncle soupy and uncle soupy was fired fired i'm wearing the fat pants
Marc:If anyone's interested in that, in my neurotic bullshit, I got the fat pants on because I just couldn't take the way the other pants fit.
Marc:I'm back in therapy.
Marc:I actually changed therapist.
Marc:I got rid of the therapist I was going to before.
Marc:I'm going to another one.
Marc:This is specific.
Marc:It seems scary.
Marc:I don't know what's going to happen to me, people.
Marc:All right, I was going to one that was sort of a placeholder.
Marc:She was all right, but I basically did with her what I do here.
Marc:Oh, I don't mean to say this is therapy, but you just sit and you talk to somebody.
Marc:So I went to this place for an evaluation.
Marc:It's pretty focused on relationship stuff, sexual stuff, love stuff, emotional wiring.
Marc:I was there for a two-hour... It actually turned into a four-hour evaluation.
Marc:And this has to do with my wiring.
Marc:It's time to fucking man up and deal with this shit.
Marc:Get in there and rewire this shit.
Marc:No medicine.
Marc:Let's do it old school.
Marc:Let's change the behavior.
Marc:After four hours...
Marc:The dude says to me, I'm not sure I get the sense that you're really ready to change.
Marc:And I'm like, really, we're going to do this tough love bullshit on the first day that I'm not ready to change?
Marc:Look, I'm going to do the best I can.
Marc:I can't help it if I get into relationships with crazy girls.
Marc:I can't help it if occasionally I like to go on the road and sleep with strangers.
Marc:I can't help that stuff.
Marc:I mean, that stuff is, you know, I've earned that.
Marc:I mean, I tried the marriage thing.
Marc:It fucked up twice.
Marc:I've tried the relationship thing.
Marc:I had to change the locks on my doors and be afraid to... You know what it's like to be a man locked in your own house?
Marc:Afraid of a 110-pound girl outside because you don't know what's going to happen?
Marc:And you're on the phone saying, just go away.
Marc:Go away.
Marc:I'm going to call the police.
Marc:That is emasculating.
Marc:Is that what love looks like for any of you?
Marc:So I'm going to this guy, and honestly, I don't know if I am ready.
Marc:I'm just starting to have a good time, I think, or else I'm starting to lose myself thoroughly.
Marc:I don't fucking know.
Marc:Let's read some emails.
Marc:Subject line, you son of a bitch.
Marc:Hey, what the fuck, asshole?
Marc:I had to hear about you from the fucking Times.
Marc:Are you fucking kidding me?
Marc:I keep up pretty damn well and I never heard anything about your podcast until that fucking slideshow.
Marc:You should have done something more.
Marc:I missed out on this for fucking months and I'm putting you at fault.
Marc:I'm a fan of pretty much all of your guests.
Marc:How did I never hear about you?
Marc:I'll tell you how.
Marc:You're a neurotic, selfish mess.
Marc:And if you gave a shit, you would have gotten some self-promotion done instead of hiding out like your average, talentless L.A.
Marc:failure.
Marc:I'm 24.
Marc:I moved to L.A.
Marc:two years ago to start writing to fulfill my lifelong passion.
Marc:The scene out here turned out to be incredibly intimidating.
Marc:I've been alone and depressed and my motivation has suffered immensely.
Marc:Your interviews have shined on my situation like no insightful book or conversation ever has.
Marc:I see myself in these intimate and lucid back and forth and it has given me a new outlook on my future.
Marc:I know I may be making myself out to be a saccharine cliche, but I don't care because just like rough drafts, we're all worthless pieces of shit when we're starting out.
Marc:So for reals, thank you so much.
Marc:I'm a little drunk.
Marc:This letter is not as eloquent as it would normally be.
Marc:Congratulations on your success.
Marc:It's well-deserved.
Marc:But again, fuck you, Sam.
Marc:I tell you, Sam, with an attitude like yours, you've got a big future in elsewhere.
Marc:Not in Los Angeles.
Marc:That was weird.
Marc:I was reading that and it kind of hurt my feelings.
Marc:But then I realized he actually likes me and I'm just setting up the stage.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'm setting the stage for the future.
Marc:I'm back in therapy and I've got to write a book.
Marc:I've been offered the opportunity to write a book.
Marc:They're going to pay me to write a book.
Marc:So I'm going to be writing a book and it's going to be it's going to be my book.
Marc:That's what I'm going to say about it.
Marc:So a lot of discipline coming in the future.
Marc:I can't fucking keep my goddamn house clean.
Marc:I got to write a book.
Marc:I got to do this show twice a week, which I love doing.
Marc:The book is very exciting, but it's going to take a lot out of me because I'm going to put it all down.
Marc:I'm going to bleed on the page and laugh at the blood.
Marc:Laugh at the blood.
Marc:I don't know how the fuck people keep their lives clean.
Marc:I've got filing to do.
Marc:I've got shit stacking up in the house.
Marc:Every goddamn day is a challenge and there's more shit coming into my house.
Marc:I'm not going to globalize it, though.
Marc:These are problems that are dealable.
Marc:I've got to write a book.
Marc:I'm wearing fat pants.
Marc:I'm going to Portland.
I'm going to Portland.
Marc:Did you meet with that woman who did Artie Lang's book and all this?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I actually, I got to say, I actually liked Artie's book and same with Jim Norton's book because even though I don't agree with a lot of what Jim Norton says.
Marc:Which part?
Marc:Being peed on or his politics?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he wrote a fucking book.
Guest:Like him or not, he sat down and wrote a goddamn book.
Marc:No, he was into it too because I saw him when he was doing that and he was like, I'm writing a book.
Guest:Yeah, and I remember I used to read his blogs on Eat a Bullet, and I was thinking way before he wrote a book, I was thinking if he ever sits down and writes a book, it will be an actual book.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It won't be a bunch of, boy, this club I worked at was bad.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was an actual narrative.
Guest:I was pretty impressed and a little intimidated because I'm like, fuck, now I got to –
Marc:try to write a book yeah but you know it's like uh you're you know the you're it's a different thing in the garage here at the cat ranch is uh patten oswalt the uh the nerd prince has uh decided to i for some reason in my generations in bread well the hollow bones i always just have this image you know based on my own history with uh trying to uh pigeonhole you as something uh
Marc:That, you know, I just see you, you know, walking down the street proudly with a dog of some kind, you know, perhaps a dog that looks a lot like you.
Guest:And we're off.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Here we go.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Marc:No, Pat.
Guest:No, I guess it was just my way of saying if you had a dog.
Marc:What kind of dog would you have?
Guest:Will this be the cold open and we'll do the frenemies theme?
Guest:Or did you want to just do that later?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm just being nice.
Marc:I'm trying to ease in and deal with the fact that I think you're very smart and funny and you wrote a book and you're in my garage and we have a history together.
Marc:But all of the negative things are something I generate.
Marc:It has nothing to do with the fact that you seem to be more socially capable than me.
Guest:I just remember if you go back in the What the Fuck archives, which aren't they available as an iPod app or something?
Marc:Yes, Pat.
Marc:And it's interesting.
Marc:The early one with Pat and Oz, while he was on one of my first episodes, is it lost?
Marc:No.
Marc:It's available if you get the WTF new iPhone app.
Marc:Oh, thank God.
Marc:Oh, thank God.
Marc:All those early episodes right there for you.
Whew.
Marc:Yeah, it's still out there.
Guest:So it's the iPhone version of having them on vellum paper and tied in a ribbon.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah, that actually unfolds like that on the app.
Marc:A little vellum paper ribbon unfolds.
Guest:There's a seal.
Guest:And by the way, if you could hire someone to do that for you, that's how you would have presented them.
Guest:There would have been a little effect of unwrapping forbidden letters and, oh, have you read Marin's correspondence?
Guest:I'm not that far from doing that, from delivering things like that.
Guest:The V-Compt has it now, but I'll make sure you have it next.
Guest:Oh, it's causing a scandal in the salons.
Marc:Some tired guy shows up in weird shoes.
Marc:I've just brought you the new WTF.
Guest:I just remember, though, when you were... It was early on in the podcast, and you were...
Guest:You kept emailing me and calling me like, you've got this movie out and I'm getting all these hits and you've got to come on my show.
Guest:And you email me and you call me a lot.
Guest:And I wasn't resisting coming on the show.
Guest:I was resisting calling in on the phone.
Guest:I hate calling shows on the phone.
Guest:I want to be there live.
Marc:I think at that time, you know, we were just starting off.
Guest:Oh, no, no.
Guest:You were in New York.
Guest:You didn't know if you were going to move back here.
Guest:You were in limbo.
Marc:Yeah, and I thought that the way to appeal to you was like, you know, Patton has a movie coming out, and I knew that you were only going to be on the phone.
Guest:But here's what was hilarious, though, because you kept saying – and your podcast was, like, immediately popular and good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I was like, you know what?
Guest:This movie basically has zero budget.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Anyway, I can get the word out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you all said – and you have your new album out, so you would really – and I'm like, you know what?
Guest:It will help me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this is after like eight emails and calls.
Guest:Then I get on the show with you and you go, so you've got – what are you here to promote?
Guest:Like I had bum-rushed your show.
Guest:What's this movie called?
Guest:The Fan of Football?
Guest:And then you're like – it's like you just – you said the name like eight times in the email.
Guest:But then I realized, oh, he has to make it look like, all right, Mr. Vidal, what do you want to say?
Guest:Why are you here in my garage?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You just show up.
Guest:I'm trying to, you know.
Marc:I'd like to clear up for my audience.
Marc:I don't know that it was that many emails, and I think, honestly, I did go.
Guest:It was about five or six.
Marc:Right, but I'm not sure I mentioned the name of the movie.
Marc:Maybe I was being unclear only to get you off your guard a little bit, so I didn't.
Guest:Well, you told me that you had seen it at the Angelica, and I remember writing an email back saying, I'm sorry that you had to see it there because that is the absolute.
Marc:You don't like trains involved in your movie?
Marc:You don't like hearing subways during your films?
Guest:I remember I was talking to the director and he said, we got booked to the Angelica.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, it's too bad.
Guest:My character doesn't work in the subway because it would be this sense around.
Marc:I just thought that the booth that you're in the parking lot was moving.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It was a whole different movie I saw.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how many old Russian women were behind you?
Guest:Now, why is he?
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:That theater is a pain in the ass.
Marc:It's a pain in the ass.
Marc:I don't miss that part of New York.
Marc:Well, why didn't you get it over at IFC?
Marc:That would have been nice.
Guest:That movie was released and toured the country like an unsigned band in the back of a restaurant.
Marc:It was playing in like three places.
Marc:I think it was playing in a guy's apartment here.
Guest:There was one point I'm like, is there only one print of this movie?
Guest:Because it would play for five days in the city and then it wouldn't open for another week.
Guest:Did the movie have to drive itself to Austin to get seen?
Marc:And what did that movie do for you?
Marc:I mean, did it sell any movies?
Marc:Did you sell movies?
Marc:I didn't sell.
Marc:Do people recognize you as the guy from The Fan?
Marc:Do they recognize you?
Marc:Hey, that's the mouse.
Marc:Or do they recognize you as the dude from King of Queens?
Guest:It's like pulling a slot machine.
Guest:I don't know what I'll get.
Guest:I don't know what I'll get.
Guest:But mostly.
Guest:I bet you it's mostly King of Queens.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Mostly it's King of Queens.
Marc:And are they excited to see you?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Do they come up and treat you like the character?
Marc:Rub your head?
Guest:Hey!
Guest:Was my character's head rubbed?
Guest:No.
Guest:I do get a lot of- You have a rubble-bull looking head.
Guest:People would fumble the name of it.
Guest:They'll go, oh, you're the Raymond guy.
Guest:It was close to Raymond, and you're the- Oh, what is it?
Guest:Deer on the box that moves.
Guest:Yeah, I get a lot of that stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, okay, Mark.
Guest:Yes?
Marc:Are you taking over?
Guest:Well, no, but- It's okay.
Guest:Where you're living now, do you venture down off the hill to get supplies?
Guest:Do you go down to-
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I load up my car with things, and then I go fill bags.
Marc:Jesus, God.
Marc:I stopped at the Rite Aid.
Marc:But let's make a distinction.
Marc:You were on the York side.
Marc:So the York side and the Colorado side is different.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Marc:To get to my house, you come up York.
Marc:If you were going to buy my house, yeah, you got to come down Colorado and up over the hill from Eagle Rock.
Marc:Not that I'm judging or classist.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:But down on York, it's not unlike Juarez in some parts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went into this Rite Aid and there's a woman in front of me, this older Hispanic woman wearing a Rite Aid uniform.
Guest:So she works at the Rite Aid.
Guest:Rite Aid's a problem.
Guest:And she has in front of her on the conveyor belt 40, and I counted these, 40 boxes of the Pepperidge Farm Christmas cookies with the green sprinkles on them.
Guest:But they have Christmas cookies.
Guest:So yeah, clearly it's some kind of for sale thing.
Guest:And she's talking to the cashier in Spanish, and the cashier is also Latino, and she's talking back in Spanish.
Guest:And you can tell the rhythm was like, let's say that the woman buying the cookies, her name is Lena.
Guest:And the cashier, the rhythm of her talking was clearly, Lena, we told you for weeks that you can't have the, we're not going to give you some kind of, like Lena had clearly had her eyes on these cookies that weren't selling and was like,
Guest:Come January.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:She's been dissuading people away from them for months.
Guest:I'm going to do some big scam.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the other woman, and this went on for 10 minutes.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I had two big things of paper towels because they were cheap.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I bought paper towels.
Marc:You bought paper towels on the way to my house?
Guest:I bought paper because I just figured I'd just get some errands done.
Guest:I left early.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So, yeah, you got to budget your time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why don't you go to, you're not a member of Costco or?
Marc:Mark, I'm trying to tell you.
Marc:All right, go ahead.
Guest:This is how you are successful in Hollywood.
Guest:You budget your time.
Guest:You get your paper towels on the way to things.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:That way you have time to go audition.
Marc:I thought it was you get people to get you the paper towels.
Marc:That's step two.
Guest:I'm in step one.
Marc:So let's go back to the drama.
Guest:Well, this argument's going on and Lena is losing the argument and is getting more agitated as it's going on.
Marc:She can't have her cookies.
Guest:Or she can't have the cookies for the price she thought she could have them at.
Guest:And so her world is collapsing.
Guest:And then there's a guy behind me with this old, old Vietnamese woman.
Guest:And he's this young, sketchy looking dude with his arm around her shoulder.
Guest:And she has Xerox copies of her...
Guest:of her driver's license and her social security card.
Guest:And the guy with his hand on her shoulder is like, just out of nowhere goes, man, that's a lot of shit paper.
Guest:No, he did not.
Guest:Yeah, he did.
Guest:He goes, that's a lot of shit paper.
Guest:And then I kind of look back and I said, yeah.
Guest:He goes, yeah, man, just got a lot of shits coming, huh?
Marc:No, he didn't.
Guest:He goes, you got a lot of shits coming.
Guest:And I was like, and I realized in his mind, we're the only people here who can speak English.
Guest:And I go, well, they're paper towels.
Guest:And he starts going, I've used paper towels when I shit sometimes.
Guest:And he just starts talking to me about how I wipe his ass with.
Guest:And then there's a guy behind him who's even sketchy.
Guest:Richier looking, even methier looking.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And he just keeps kind of popping his eyes at me like, hey, like this.
Guest:And I was like- I just woke up again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, I can't figure out.
Guest:Is he with the guy with the old Vietnamese woman?
Guest:And clearly, they're about to do some kind of scam.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then I finally, Lena loses and stomps off and leaves all these cookies on the computer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just leaves.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then I pay for my- Shit paper.
Guest:My shit paper, yeah.
Guest:And then I'm walking out, and then I'm getting into my car, and as I'm pulling away, the guy who was popping his eyes at me is now outside.
Guest:There's a dude out in front with no shirt on.
Guest:The guy who was popping, he comes out, takes his shirt off, gives it to the guy who doesn't have his shirt on, and points at me like, that's the guy, I'm assuming from King of Queens.
Guest:So it's like the guy with no shirt, or he had a shirt, he's like, give me your shirt so I can go in and get whatever we, they're clearly probably buying a million Advils.
Marc:I think it's actually like Sudafed or something.
Marc:Yeah, that's right, the Sud.
Guest:It's just three horrible transactions all going on around me, and then one guy just, you're buying shit paper.
Marc:To me, how someone delivers shit paper to Patton Oswalt and doesn't realize that we've got a comedy death ray set in the future.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I'm like 10 minutes waiting, I go, well, here's my opening.
Marc:Are you there tonight?
Guest:Thank you.
Yeah.
Marc:I'm on tonight.
Marc:Oh, are you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I might drop by.
Marc:Maybe I should say, like, I was talking to Patton, and there was a guy he ran into.
Marc:I just tell you a story of what's removed.
Guest:You can totally, because I've told your story on stage.
Guest:Which?
Guest:And I credit you about the, because I told this years ago about that amazing acid experience that you had.
Guest:Oh, the just hang on, which to me is the greatest drug story ever told because it's so hopeful and optimistic.
Marc:It's changed my life.
Marc:It really is.
Marc:It's one of those things where it's like it's wisdom that I've tucked away for when I'm freaking out about anything.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:And it's like, I don't know what happened to the guy that told me that.
Guest:You told me the story at dinner.
Guest:We were in San Francisco, and you told me that story, and it was like when you said that the guy said, just hang on, man, and it completely chilled me out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because he had this attitude like, oh, I've done this one.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I know exactly where you are.
Marc:You'll be back.
Marc:You'll be back.
Marc:Don't worry, man.
Marc:So it's good to see you.
Marc:And do you have a dog?
Guest:I have a French bulldog that looks exactly like me.
Guest:You do not.
Guest:I swear to God.
Guest:So I have a black mask, fawn, little French bulldog.
Guest:And you have a daughter?
Guest:And I have a daughter who looks, thank God, like my wife.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Very cute.
Marc:I met her for the first time at the airport.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Marc:And I've met your wife a couple of times.
Marc:And I talked to her about maybe doing a Wives of Comics show.
Guest:Which that will never fucking happen in a million years.
Guest:Will she ever come on the show and talk?
Marc:What are you protecting, Patton?
Marc:I mean, what is the at-home, Patton?
Guest:My mystique.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm protecting my mystique.
Marc:What does a day for Patten look like?
Guest:Do you get up?
Guest:Do you have a treadmill at the house?
Guest:No.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:We had at the old house in Burbank, we had a treadmill in the garage.
Guest:And I remember when I bought it, the guy that delivered it was like, I'm just telling you, man, people never use home gym equipment.
Guest:And he was completely right.
Guest:And then we never used it.
Guest:I mean, she actually used it.
Guest:She would work out.
Guest:My wife is very motivated, and I would just never, because once it's there, there's no reason to get, I'm too close to my distractions.
Marc:I've talked about this.
Marc:It's just the garage of ideas.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, exactly the garage.
Marc:I used to do a joke about that.
Marc:It was the museum of forgotten hobbies or something.
Marc:My brother lives in suburbia.
Marc:You walk into his garage and he's pointing at things like, there's the toboggan.
Marc:That's a tuba.
Marc:I don't know what I was thinking.
Marc:I think the punchline was like, well, if you get bored, you could open a Friday's.
Guest:Yeah, just go get a moose head with sunglasses on it.
Marc:Yeah, you're all set.
Marc:You can get a few menus.
Guest:Yeah, in our garage, we had a treadmill, and then we had a dent-free heavy bag.
Guest:Clearly, it's just smooth as the day we bought it.
Guest:What was the day that Patton Oswalt decided, I got to get a punching bag?
Guest:I got to get a heavy bag.
Guest:In my mind, I'm like, I got to go get a heavy bag.
Guest:What were you preparing for?
Guest:In my mind, there's always going to be...
Guest:The world's going to freeze and we're going to have to fend for ourselves.
Marc:So you're going to train at that moment?
Guest:In the back of my mind, I'm like, I should learn to make fire.
Guest:I should learn to set up legs.
Marc:You should be trained when that happens.
Marc:It's not when the shit goes down and you're like, hold on.
Guest:Yeah, give me 10 minutes.
Guest:I'm ready.
Guest:Yeah, I can just get out there with Viggo Mortensen.
Marc:Do you really have that fear?
Marc:Oh, totally.
Guest:Yeah, and it gets worse and worse.
Marc:How do you think it's going to go down?
Guest:I think it will actually go down in a, there's a really shitty movie from like 1980 called Rollover with Christopher Kristofferson.
Guest:Chris Kristofferson and Jane Fonda about the Arabs default on all of our loans and the economy just basically collapses overnight.
Guest:And the whole movie's terrible.
Guest:It's at the last 10 minutes, which is actually a really well done version of what a financial apocalypse would look like.
Guest:And I just think now I don't think it'll be nuclear.
Guest:I don't even think I mean, we'll clearly are going to suffer some terrorist attacks, but that won't shut us down.
Guest:I think it's just going to be this sort of general kind of letting go.
Guest:It's America will do its version of me when I've been on a diet for like six days.
Guest:And on day seven, I'm in a hotel room and it's 10 o'clock at night and I just eat everything.
Marc:You're surrounded by everything.
Marc:You ordered room service.
Marc:Screw it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Henry VIII up on 420 wants more food.
Guest:I mean, I just finished a burger and fries, and then I've opened the mini bar and gotten out the rice crispy cake and the Pringles!
Guest:That goddamn can of Pringles everywhere I go!
Marc:I'm not opening that jar of nuts for $15.
Marc:Oh, fuck it.
Marc:i'm on the road i'm still it's good because i think it's going to end like you know just all at once not unlike maybe a balloon being let go that that there's just going to be this moment or the earth shifts off its axis just a tad yeah and it's just going to be a singular moment where no one can breathe all at the same time like that there's no there's no drama there's no burning shit there's no hordes of people just everyone walks out and goes okay okay and you just see your neighbor and that's it
Guest:See, that would be good because it would be overcooked.
Marc:It's like the cardiac arrest theory.
Marc:Like, I just want to go like that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm terrified that it's going to happen, but in this really uncinematic, unspectacular way where everyone – the panic will come from the fact that people are realizing –
Guest:So the money in my wallet isn't worth anything?
Guest:And then you realize that you're going to probably be killed in the aisle of a Gelson's fighting over a thing of Entenmann's cakes to feed your family.
Marc:That's how you'll go.
Marc:It ends with you sadly eating your bulldog waiting for...
Marc:For weird hordes of people to come take your family away.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I'll starve checking to see if the internet is back on for the 800th time.
Guest:Still nothing.
Guest:Then I just, boom, then my stomach eats itself.
Guest:What is this thing with the food, though?
Guest:I do the same thing.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:I have the worst.
Guest:That's my – I wish that there was a – thing is, like, if you go to AA or Narcotics Anonymous, it's exotic and dark, and it has that kind of Jack Kerouac and Williams.
Marc:Is it?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe you're going to different meetings with me.
Guest:No, I've never been, but I just imagine.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But Overeaters Anonymous, you don't feel like you're going to be in a room with some drawn, you know, haunted-looking poets.
Guest:You're going to be, like, people going –
Guest:Well, you know, sometimes I'm sad and then donuts make me not sad.
Guest:You know, and then you realize that's Utah.
Marc:But, you know, what's interesting, though, is that food is a tough one.
Marc:And it's actually a little deeper in terms of like people addressing, you know, the issue and addressing trauma beneath it.
Marc:Because with booze and drugs and gambling, it's like, oh, I don't put that in my face that, you know, but food you have to put in your face.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So, you know, regulating that and the control issues around overeating or not eating, like, you know, it goes both ways, but you actually need it.
Marc:You don't need crack.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You know, you don't get up and go like, I don't know if I'm going to, you know, like, how can I survive without crack?
Marc:Crackheads think that.
Marc:But food is actually one of those weird things that-
Guest:Yeah, but then there's food that is essentially, I wish there was a way I could program my head to look at certain foods as if they were crack or like poison.
Marc:And the poison, I love it so much.
Marc:But do you get on that, like I get on this thing, like I've been on the road two weeks, I need to go to the gym.
Marc:I know I'm not heavy or anything, but I'm crazy.
Marc:But I feel like I'm clawing out of my body.
Marc:Once I start eating bread, once I start eating sugar, it's fucking over, man.
Marc:I mean, I wake up and it's like ridiculous.
Marc:Ice cream for breakfast, where's the cake?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That to me, I realized I'm trying to work at like, is sugar my downfall is, but it's white fucking flour.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:White flour way more than sugar.
Guest:Which turns into sugar.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Way, I think even faster than sugar.
Guest:I don't know what the fuck it is.
Guest:And I don't know why this became the view all of a sudden, but I cannot.
Guest:Fucking stuff.
Guest:Maybe you've experienced this too.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Let's say you go to an audition or you go do a show.
Marc:I haven't experienced that.
Marc:Either of those things are very rare for me.
Guest:Or the stuff just doesn't go the way you want it to.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Then you go, oh, fuck, I'm going to go eat.
Guest:Or let's say you go do a show or do something and it goes spectacular, then you want to go eat as well.
Guest:You want to go celebrate.
Marc:Oh, yeah, it's the same with drugs.
Marc:I deserve it.
Marc:I suck.
Marc:I'm going to drink.
Marc:I'm the best.
Marc:Yay, drink.
Yeah.
Marc:And I can actually... When he had masturbation to the food problem, though, that's the saddest thing in the world.
Marc:When you're sitting in a room, which is all you have left, because I don't drink or do drugs, but when you're sitting there and you've just gone through the fucking mini bar, you've ordered room service, and then you're just fucking jerking off with candy wrappers and fucking empty room service trays.
Guest:I win.
Guest:This is the life I've chosen.
Guest:I was in Austin this past weekend after being on the road for three days of nonstop, like Fargo, South Dakota.
Guest:I got to Austin, and I talked about this on stage.
Guest:I jerked off four times, and the fourth time I started jerking off late in the day, I started knowing I wasn't going to come.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I'm just going to start.
Guest:It's like starting's kind of fun.
Guest:It's like when you listen to your iPod.
Marc:This is all in one day?
Marc:All in one day.
Marc:That's ambitious.
Marc:You are a little kooky.
Guest:It wasn't ambition.
Guest:It was just like I've.
Marc:You felt better.
Marc:It makes you feel better.
Guest:But it was like the fourth time felt like you ever been on the treadmill and you go, I just want to hear the beginning of this song I like on my iPod and I'll click away to the next one.
Guest:That's what it felt like.
Guest:I just want the beginning of masturbation.
Marc:No, you did that because like, you know, after that third or fourth time when you're like compulsively masturbating in order to come the amount you have to pull on yourself and fucking like realize it like this is just hurting me.
Marc:Yeah, there's no there's no glory in this at all.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't mean to get specific, but I've realized, though, that it's weird.
Marc:Even if you just touch your dick, like if I touch my dick right now, it changes my brain chemistry.
Marc:So there's something like, you know, you feel it's hooked up to do that.
Marc:Like, you know, when you come, you know, your brain, that's why people, you know, jerk off because it makes them, it's an antidepressant.
Marc:So if you literally hold your dick, you're like, I feel a little better.
Guest:Do you think that would stop me overeating?
Guest:Like if I was at, like if I'm at Starbucks and I just want to get a tea, but then I look at that goddamn case and I want those little vanilla.
Guest:Just stand in front of the case and jerk off.
Guest:Or just have my hand on my dick.
Guest:Yeah, just touch it.
Marc:Nah, I don't know if it'll work.
Marc:Because it's a whole different thing.
Marc:You want to get everything going at once, and you just limited yourself to these two things.
Marc:I mean, maybe crack is good.
Marc:Maybe you should start a hard drug problem.
Marc:You still smoke reefer?
Marc:No.
Marc:Not really?
Guest:No.
Guest:It's like red wine and scotch for me.
Guest:It's like old man stuff.
Marc:Oh, you and the scotch.
Marc:You brought this scotch once, and it almost made me start drinking again.
Marc:Where the fuck were we when you brought that scotch to everybody?
Guest:We were at Seattle.
Marc:all right the seattle fest you walk in with a bottle so you just open it and literally the entire room goes what happened in here what is that smell yeah that's right what is that shit really really old lafroig i think it was like 20 year old lafroig i found a bottle of and i just brought it backstage but now you're this guy you've grown into this guy that has 40 year old lafroig you go to restaurants you have the chef you know come out and what does he do what's a chef's table
Guest:Oh, a chef's table, some restaurants have it, some don't, but they'll have a little table either in the kitchen or off of the kitchen where it's kind of private, and they just bring you stuff off the menu that they're working on.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, we're just kind of working on it.
Guest:Trying this out.
Guest:Yeah, let's see what you think.
Guest:I was in the kitchen one night at Providence.
Guest:We were all at the chef's table, and someone had gotten a thing of nitrous oxide, and the chefs were just randomly dropping shit into it to see if they could do something weird.
Guest:Wait.
Marc:When did cooking become that?
Marc:Do you eat that stuff where they have olive oil and strawberry foam?
Marc:The molecular gastronomy.
Guest:Yeah, I do, man.
Guest:Do you dig it?
Guest:I love it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:When it's done well, sometimes they go a little too far.
Guest:When would that be?
Guest:I got to say, there's a restaurant in LA called Bazaar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he has one side of the menu is like old rustic Spanish food.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The left side is the molecular future stuff.
Marc:And to his- Do they bring you a helmet if you order from that side?
Yeah.
Guest:They have things of nitrous oxide going around the room, frozen nitrogen, but the rustic stuff is so good that it just is like, why are you bothering doing the molecular stuff?
Marc:It must look freaky next to it.
Guest:It looks a little weird.
Marc:Wait, so nitrous oxide is a real thing that they use?
Guest:Either frozen nitrogen, yeah, nitrogen to flash freeze things in, nitrous oxide to puff things up.
Guest:There's a place in Chicago called Moto where I just went, and that was where the chef came out and was like, we just made a dessert for you, and they made a dessert based on one of my bits, like right there, which I loved.
Guest:Which bit?
Guest:The Christmas shoes bit.
Guest:And they made a pair of like lady shoes and they did this special frosting that looked like cum because there's a part of the guy jerking off on the shoes.
Guest:So they had made that.
Guest:And then when they came to the kitchen, they were playing the song Christmas Shoes.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:It was really flattering.
Marc:It seemed like that would have been a good time to die.
Marc:After you're eating that, I'm done.
Guest:This isn't going to happen again.
Marc:They've memorialized my bits with food.
Marc:It seems like you win.
Marc:You've arrived somehow.
Guest:And they were also happy that we didn't pick one of your bits about food.
Guest:We picked the non-food bit to make a food out of.
Marc:There's a couple of great bits.
Marc:I've come to describe you when I seek to find difference in our style and our success levels.
Marc:You know, here's what I'll say about Patton.
Marc:Patton, you know, he has a Rabelazian wit.
Marc:Oh, Jesus.
Marc:And I don't throw that around too lightly because, you know, I barely got through gargantuan and whatever.
Guest:Yeah, I remember I started that because I felt like, I feel like I should have read this, but I couldn't get into it.
Marc:But stylistically, it's sort of what you do.
Marc:It's sort of like a very kind of like almost a celebration of description and explanation.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And then I think I say things like- Try.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:I try.
Marc:No, no, I think it's a great style.
Marc:And then I also say things like, well, what Patton does is he creates people to abuse.
Marc:That's the other thing I say, that you create these scenarios with these people you've made up and then you put them through a lot of painful things.
Marc:In a comic book way.
Marc:I think it's your sensibility that comes from actually from reading comic because you turn me on to comic books more than most people like it when I had met when I'd moved to San Francisco and we all showed up there within weeks of each other.
Marc:What was like 92?
Guest:Summer of 92.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like I had.
Marc:So annoying then.
Marc:I was so fucking annoying.
Marc:annoying then the uh i'm sorry you just threw that over here no come on no you're not gonna spike it if i set it up like that yeah you gotta do it yeah but uh but no i had read maybe hellblazer and sandman and a few other titles but jesus christ i mean i've got boxes and shit you had you got me going on hard-boiled you got me going like you were really into hard-boiled that that was like a three or four page uh a three or four book series that the art was just spectacular was like the art was almost painful to look at
Marc:You remember what I'm talking about?
Guest:Yeah, I got you that first issue.
Guest:Yeah, it was amazing.
Guest:And I just opened any page, and I remember, Jesus, God.
Marc:I can't take this.
Marc:But you come from that sensibility, and I come from just sort of a reactive, hyper-emotional state.
Marc:But I noticed that even then you used to do it.
Marc:What was that joke?
Marc:I was so intimidated at the intelligence of what you were describing.
Marc:What was the Gordian not joke?
Guest:I just, yeah, that was, again, that was me showing off.
Marc:Have you brought back that joke?
Guest:No, I haven't, because that was back, if you look at a lot of my young stuff, like my first HBO special, all it is is it's a young guy who's super intimidated, and I'm pointing out how dumb everything is, and then I just recently, I think in my last two albums, I've gotten closer to, here's what I'm noticing about myself.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Guest:It's taken a long time.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's taken a really long time.
Marc:But you knew your shit.
Marc:It wasn't you were a dumb guy.
Marc:It wasn't like you would sit there and do what Dennis Miller did.
Marc:You didn't take a thesaurus out.
Marc:I mean, your curiosity was intelligent.
Marc:I mean, I'm sure you're a Dungeons & Dragons guy and that kind of shit, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:There's a whole chapter about that in my fucking book, for God's sakes.
Marc:What's the book called?
Marc:Wasteland Robots?
Guest:Oh, don't pretend like you don't know it.
Guest:No, I'm just kidding.
Marc:I think I might know because I met with your publisher.
Marc:It's Zombies, Spaceships, Wasteland.
Guest:Zombie Spaceship Placeland.
Guest:There you go.
Marc:I knew that.
Marc:It's a good title.
Marc:Yeah, thank you.
Marc:And it seems to be doing well.
Guest:Yeah, it's doing very, very well.
Guest:I think my publisher has said you're going to get some very, very good news next week, and I don't know what that is, so I'll find it.
Guest:When will this podcast be?
Marc:They're probably going to make a meal out of your book.
Guest:Make a whole meal.
Guest:Lean Cuisine is going to do a whole line of lunches just based on references in my book.
Guest:The Patton Oswalt Cafe Classics line.
Guest:you're gonna have to endorse him yeah i gotta get my face on that stuff what was that gordian knot joke it was something about i was just trying to say like fuck the gordian knot that's lateral thinking that's and i still don't even know what that means well it was when alexander was you know conquering everything and there was this this legendary knot that nobody could untie the gordian knot right this puzzle and when he conquered the city they're like you know the knot is here and he just took his sword out and just cut it
Guest:Oh.
Guest:There, that was like, how about this?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:Right now, there's about 15 people who are listening to this right now who are thinking back 20 years, thinking like, oh, that's what that fucking was.
Marc:Fucking asshole.
Marc:I hated him because of that joke.
Guest:You've unlocked the resentment of a few people that now like you.
Guest:I just remember back then, and maybe this was when you were younger too, because you had had a little more experience by the time I met you.
Guest:But I was, as Blaine Capatch put it, you were a lad in the city.
Guest:You were a fucking suburban, kind of smacked ass.
Guest:And suddenly you're in, that was like my first big city I'd lived in.
Guest:And I just remember I wanted to be I wanted to hang out with the best comedians around.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I wanted to hang out with you and Blaine and Greg Barron and Jeremy Kramer and Proops, because what I saw was back on the East Coast, these comedians, these headliners that were they were funny.
Marc:Got tired of hanging out with Jeff Marder.
Guest:No, no, it wasn't even that.
Guest:It was like they had designed their lives so that they were always hanging out with less funny people than them.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:On purpose, you think?
Guest:I think, yeah, I think it was an insecurity thing.
Guest:Right, so that's not on purpose.
Guest:And it kind of calcified them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was determined to, like, I never want to be the funniest guy in the group because then I won't get funny.
Guest:I want to hang on with funny people that I respect and then drain them of their life force.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Rise above them.
Guest:Come on.
Marc:It was a couple awkward moments with me and you.
Marc:I remember the first time I tried to get stuck.
Couple.
Marc:The one time I tried to get sober in San Francisco, I think it must have been my second time trying to get sober, and I was trying to make an amends or something.
Marc:I remember we were doing the festival.
Marc:Then I walk up to you and go, look, I just want you to know that I'm jealous of you and I resent you.
Marc:I tried to make some sort of half-ass joke.
Guest:Well, there was also a time, there was a period, this happened at Montreal, then it happened at the Chicago Fest, and I realized that, oh, this is something that he, clearly either a sponsor or a therapist told him to do this, where we'd meet, and you'd take the shit out of me and abuse me and say shit, and then before you'd pee away, you'd go, hey, I love you, man, and then you'd walk away.
Marc:That's just being a dick.
Guest:But there was also, it had the feeling of a therapist going, no matter what you say to him at the end, just go, I love you, and then you'll feel better.
Marc:No, that's something I think a sponsor or a therapist would have said, why don't you not lash out at him for no reason out of your own fucking ridiculous bullshit.
Marc:Walking up to this poor guy.
Marc:Look at him.
Marc:He's got enough problems.
Marc:I never saw you as a guy with problems, though.
Marc:Oh, hey, come on, dude.
Marc:I really didn't.
Marc:For some reason, I just don't believe it.
Marc:Like outside of the food, I think that you're a guy that you get your work done.
Marc:I remember the first time I went to your house in Burbank for a party or something.
Guest:Oh, yeah, that's right.
Guest:I remember that.
Marc:I don't remember what the party was, but your brother was hanging out.
Marc:And you had this, you know, you had that room in back.
Marc:And it was at that moment I realized that, you know, you actually sit there and write.
Marc:Because I've talked about this with other people on the podcast.
Marc:Like, there are guys like me who sit around going, how the fuck did he get that job?
Marc:Why'd they pick him to rewrite that thing?
Marc:Oh, because he rewrites things.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Yeah, that's different than me.
Marc:But, I mean, you have a work ethic.
Marc:So whatever your problems are, they don't diminish that.
Guest:Well, yeah, but that has also gotten in the way... I had a really bad period back in 2007 where I basically got handed... And I embrace it now, and I talk to the people that... But I basically was handed a plum writing assignment that they go, when you write this, we also want you... Because I had a vision to direct it.
Guest:And you will also direct this.
Guest:And then... What was it?
Guest:It would have been a fake...
Guest:documentary about George W. Bush as if it were made by, as if a conservative group had paid for it to be made.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I used that documentary, there's a documentary called The Power of Nightmares.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But imagine if a conservative group made that.
Guest:You know, and it's really, and I was going to do all kinds of different, like when I pitched it, it was going to be at Gary Sanchez, Will Ferrell's company.
Guest:And I pitched them, like they had the basic germ of the idea.
Guest:And then I said, well, we can use these different film looks and take them through this, you know, all this stuff.
Guest:And they loved it.
Guest:And then I basically just sat and didn't, I had this, I had the worst writer's block of my life and basically just said, I can't, I can't turn it in.
Guest:Like,
Guest:two months down the road when they were expecting it.
Guest:And they were really upset.
Guest:And they had every right to be.
Guest:And then I think that led to them having to scramble and do that very funny You're Welcome America.
Guest:They did a Broadway show instead.
Guest:Yeah, that was good.
Guest:But that came out of my absolute...
Guest:fucking failure to deliver something.
Marc:In retrospect, what do you attribute that to?
Guest:Everything seemed to be kind of exploding at once.
Guest:It was like Ratatouille was happening and then the second album was coming out.
Marc:But Ratatouille, did that cause you any turmoil?
Guest:It didn't cause me personal turmoil.
Guest:It felt a little weird to see that level of show business.
Guest:To see the Oscars.
Guest:Did you know that... I didn't know that it would be... Get that big?
Guest:It's that... I mean, there is a...
Guest:In a way, it's like, oh, I see why some people go fucking crazy when they become – and I wasn't even becoming a celebrity.
Guest:I was just, you know, like 50 feet away from the top of the machinery.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And watching it happen is really kind of frightening.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And you see how huge the stakes are.
Marc:Is it like Willy Wonka when the grandpa and the kid have to burp to get down?
Guest:Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Guest:Oh, fuck, what if I was doing that?
Guest:What if I was just belching and letting that thing, like, it's too much.
Guest:I can't fucking be in Ratatouille and then direct this goddamn movie for Will Ferrell, so I had to burn one thing to the ground.
Marc:Belch your way down from the blade?
Guest:Yeah, belch your way down to kind of calm down a little bit.
Marc:But I guess my question, though, you know, because writer's block, I mean, you must have you don't seem like a self-sabotaging person, but there was just too much going on.
Marc:You're just overwhelmed and you were in sort of a seizure.
Marc:Yeah, it was exactly what it was.
Marc:Well, that's that's an interesting question that that I think we should address, because when we when we were younger or certainly when I was younger and I think we come from a little different place, there was this whole notion.
Marc:I've talked about this a bit with other people, but, you know, King of Queens did not really honor your voice at all.
Marc:And in the sense that, you know, there's there's something about your intelligence and your stand up and, you know, how you express yourself.
Marc:But you took a job on a show.
Marc:Yeah, that was a mainstream sitcom.
Marc:And I and I like Kevin James.
Marc:I think he's fucking hilarious.
Marc:Well, and you got to work with Jerry Stiller.
Marc:But was there a point where you're like, this isn't it's going to work against me?
Guest:No, you know what?
Guest:No, because I at first, yeah, because I was taking the wrong point of view of it.
Guest:I was starting to because of King of Queens and because of a popular that show got.
Guest:Yeah, I was getting headlining offers and I could go into rooms and without a whole lot of work on my part, it would just sell out because it would say Pat and I was off from King of Queens.
Guest:Were they happy?
Guest:No, because I wasn't taking responsibility for my shows in my audience.
Guest:And that's where I got booed off stage.
Guest:That's where I had shows canceled on me.
Marc:Because they were expecting, what, that guy?
Guest:Eight o'clock family hour, Monday night.
Guest:And that's when I started realizing, wait a minute, I need to, you can't just, and I thought back on all the comedians who let themselves just kind of ride along the TV exposure, which can destroy you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's when I really started websites, doing smaller rooms, really, you know.
Guest:Comedians of comedy.
Guest:Comedians of comedy to teach people, this is what I do.
Guest:I'm happy when I get jobs like King of Queens.
Guest:Those are fucking great.
Guest:And and working on King of Queens was really fun because they would always write an odd B story for me.
Guest:The whole writing staff and producers were massive stoners.
Guest:And we and it was there was just a great atmosphere to hang out in.
Guest:But you actually also I learned how to fucking act.
Guest:If you watch the first two seasons of that show, it's so I'm amazed they didn't fire me.
Guest:I'm amazed they didn't fire me.
Marc:But there was a concerted effort on your part to fight against the expectations, which were minimal on behalf of that audience, other than he's that guy and he's acting like that guy who doesn't say much on the show.
Guest:That's a big thing to fight against.
Guest:I had no idea.
Guest:I just thought, oh, good.
Guest:Now I can headline rooms without having to do radio because they just sell out.
Guest:And then that got me in so much trouble.
Guest:And so now I go out of my way.
Guest:If I'm going to a room, I get a poster made and I let people know this is what I do.
Marc:And then doing the mouse.
Guest:The rat.
Guest:Well, that to me was, I think that my people that are fans of me are huge fans of Pixar because Pixar, that's that level of quality, especially.
Marc:That's relative to the comedy nerd community.
Guest:Completely, because you and I, on our best nights, especially if you're at the UCB Theater, you're playing for the connoisseurs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And those are the people that just go, I'll go see every Pixar movie, because they will do something great.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because they appreciate the form.
Guest:Yeah, and also, luckily enough...
Guest:Smart parents go see Pixar movies, and without me ever having to say it, they're like, we probably shouldn't take our little kid to see him do stand-up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's a 1030 show.
Marc:Right, they know the difference.
Guest:Yeah, they totally.
Guest:Ratatouille caused zero problems for me.
Marc:How about the Sierra Miss commercial?
Guest:I had to go to a sanitarium for a while after that.
Guest:Sierra Miss was literally... They had shot it... From what I understand, they shot it with someone else.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they... For some reason, I don't know why, they didn't like that person, and I got a call.
Guest:I was in my dress room at King of Queens.
Guest:We were shooting on a Friday night, and my manager called and said, if you can get on...
Guest:a flight tonight out of LA, you can go do this Sierra Miss commercial.
Guest:And I immediately, and I instantly said, I don't want to do a Sierra Miss commercial.
Guest:And he goes, it's for this.
Guest:And no, he goes, okay, fine.
Guest:And he called them back and said no.
Guest:And then they doubled the money immediately.
Guest:And then I called my wife.
Guest:my then fiancee now wife and she said yeah you're gonna go do that because i because i also remember i was that's when i was talking telling her about my idea yeah to do comedians of comedy right that will pay for that will pay for comedians of comedy and right so that sierra miss commercial paid for the first tour paid for the film to get the film produced yeah got all that done so so yeah so it's a negotiation it's show business
Guest:It's showbiz.
Guest:I can't believe it.
Guest:I'm not going to justify it.
Guest:It was a work for hire that paid so much fucking money.
Guest:There's no reason to justify it.
Marc:I don't know that you have to because there was a time where there was something to be reckoned with.
Marc:Obviously, you're going to reckon with yourself and you still are a little bit because there's something about the idea of blatantly going like, drink this sweet stuff.
Marc:that makes you feel a little whorish.
Marc:But, I mean, the bottom line is, in the age we live in now, if you have people that appreciate you, they're going to go like, so what?
Marc:He did a Sierra Miss commercial, and now we've got this other thing.
Marc:As opposed to, like, five comics going, sell out, fucking sell out.
Guest:Well, I mean, people who yell, I've said this a million times, people who yell sell out are the people that when they were selling, nobody wanted to buy what they had to sell.
Marc:No, I say that.
Marc:I feel like when people go, you know, would you ever sell out?
Marc:I'm like, well, thankfully I've never been in the position...
Marc:No one's offered to buy my particular brand of pitchmanship.
Guest:Yeah, but people that say, you should have done one season in King of Queens, you should have quit.
Guest:I'm like, well, then I wouldn't have been able to do any comedians of comedy.
Guest:Wouldn't have been able to produce my first album, which I own outright.
Marc:I wouldn't have been able to do anything.
Marc:But honestly, it's not just about money.
Marc:You showed up for work.
Marc:I mean, the one thing that I realized about this business is that you don't get to make more decisions for yourself until you make other people money.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:yeah that guy makes us money let him do that and then like every once in a while like you fund your own stuff and then you get support from it but you know once you make other people money they're like true let's give him some money what else would you like to do yeah yeah let's see if you can make us some more money with the money we give you and also what people want to see is that can you work with us and not be a pain in the ass
Guest:I remember Matt Fraction, this comic book writer, said that.
Guest:He goes, you basically, when you get your first writing job, they want to A, see that you can write, and B, see that you're not a fucking lunatic.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they go, oh, he'll turn his stuff in the first every month and not be an asshole about it?
Guest:You're hired.
Marc:There's a limitation.
Marc:I think there was a different time where I think creative people were coddled, even if they were out of their fucking mind, but not so much anymore.
Guest:Well, in a way, I think it's kind of good that the internet, that's how I find all my poster artists.
Guest:There's people that can just have their art seen, and because people see that there's such a huge field of talented people out there, they go, well, why don't we go with talented people that aren't assholes?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because there seem to be as many of those as the assholes.
Marc:Right, and before the internet, it was just the asshole was always the loudest, so they knew who he was.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:That's how they got their stuff out there.
Marc:Well, fuck, man.
Marc:That all makes pretty good sense.
Yeah.
Guest:I remember one time we were at Cobbs, and I think I was 29 years old at that point, and you didn't know that I was approaching 30, because you were up in Cobbs for some reason too, and then you went, you're almost 30?
Guest:I said, yeah, and then you went, Patton Oswalt with wisdom and humility, I just can't imagine it.
Guest:I just wanted to go, you don't have wisdom and humility, what the fuck are you talking about?
Guest:What a dick I was to you.
Guest:But I remember I was a fucking... I was a dick, too.
Guest:There was moments when, if I had been in your shoes, I would have gone, holy fuck, this kid's annoying.
Guest:This kid is fucking annoying.
Marc:Well, I tried to figure out today what annoys me about you.
Marc:And really...
Marc:Because you're undeniably funny.
Marc:You're undeniably smart.
Marc:You're a charming guy.
Marc:You're socially adept.
Marc:I just think that there's a confidence.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I've never been accused of having confidence.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Oh, my God, no.
Marc:You walk with an air of sort of... It's not snobbery, but there's just an air of confidence about you.
Guest:You know, there might have been some false confidence when I was young because I was just putting that front on.
Guest:And someone that's young, that is so fucking annoying.
Marc:Well, no, but the thing is, you're always intelligent, so you could get away with it in the sense that people would always believe.
Marc:Even if you were a dick, you're like, I gotta look up Gordy and not.
Guest:What the fuck does he say?
Guest:What is he talking about?
Marc:I wanted to know a little bit about some of the stuff you did as a ghost writer, as a hired writer, because there's been something stuck in my craw for a while.
Marc:Not stuck in my craw, that's the wrong way to do it, but...
Marc:I knew that you did some, I know that people call you to punch up shit.
Guest:All the time.
Guest:It's constant.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So, like, my question was, specifically, a couple years back, I can't remember if it was the Oscars, I think it was the Oscars, when Ben Stiller presented the effects award, and he did that bit where he came out in the green suit as if there was a screen behind him, and he was acting like he was just a floating head.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was that your idea?
Guest:No.
Guest:He had called me that year, and I was traveling.
Guest:That was funny.
Guest:God, I wish I could claim it, but I can't.
Guest:The year that I went in with him was the year that he was presenting Best Costume with him and Owen Wilson.
Guest:And so we went in and we pitched about a million ideas to that guy, Hal Cantor, who was horrible to us.
Guest:He was like the meanest dude.
Marc:Is he the head writer at the Oscars?
Guest:Yeah, and he is...
Guest:he's like a million years old.
Guest:He's just sitting there.
Guest:How about something funny?
Guest:He'd like bark at us.
Guest:And Bruce Valanche, bless his heart, was we pitched this idea that Ben really liked.
Guest:And then he goes, I can't.
Guest:This is not how you write.
Guest:You don't write with a bunch of people sitting around saying jokes.
Guest:And in my head, I'm like, that's exactly how you write.
Guest:And then he's like, Bruce, I'll decide what the hell this is.
Guest:So Bruce Valanche is leading Ben and I away.
Guest:And I was like,
Guest:wow, Bruce, it seemed like I really pissed him off.
Guest:I guess we're not going to do that idea.
Guest:And then he goes, oh, he just forgot he talked to us.
Guest:I'll get it done.
Guest:Don't worry about it.
Guest:That guy is so nice to us.
Marc:I don't think I've talked to anybody in the position that you're in of what kind of calls, who calls you to do what, and what have we seen that you haven't really been able to take credit for because...
Guest:Well, a lot of the DreamWorks movies have stuff that I've put in them.
Marc:Which movies?
Guest:Jesus, all the Shrek movies.
Guest:Well, Shrek 2 and 3, Monsters Incorporated.
Marc:You did passes on all those scripts?
Guest:All those scripts, yeah.
Guest:And especially some really, not even like DreamWorks stuff, like Warner Brothers Animation, Sony Animation.
Marc:Mostly animation for you?
Guest:A lot of animation, but a lot of live action, a lot of the Farrelly Brothers stuff.
Guest:The fact that...
Guest:Jason, oh, God, who's the guy from Seinfeld?
Guest:Alexander.
Guest:Jason Alexander.
Guest:The fact that he has a tail, all that was mine, from Shallow Hal.
Guest:And when that girl comes up and says, I've got these tickets for this acoustic Beatles thing, but Clapton's going to sit in.
Guest:And then he looks at it and goes, but one of her toes is a little bigger.
Guest:He's like, ugh, not a big fan of Clapton.
Guest:Just like he can't.
Guest:That was yours?
Guest:Yeah, and then some of the stuff in the first Borat movie, I was on that early on before Todd Phillips quit and the new director came in.
Guest:They shut down production, so I had to go back to King of Queens and I couldn't finish out the movie.
Guest:So Seth Rogen and I had done a lot of writing on that early on and then we both got pulled away and didn't get credit.
Marc:Well, how did that occur that you got into the loop with all these people in terms of being that go-to guy?
Guest:You know how it happens?
Guest:It's the same way when you first start doing open mics and then word just gets around about you.
Guest:I would do shows in LA and by chance, somebody was in the audience that either produces that stuff or knows a producer and someone said, let's do a punch-up table and they went, oh, I saw some guy.
Guest:And also, I tend to talk about movies a lot, like, in the moment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, like, let's bring him in.
Guest:And then if you do one or two of these, it just, you're worried you're trying to, like, bring that guy in.
Guest:Bring him in.
Guest:Bring him in.
Marc:But now, do you have a relationship with the Farrelly brothers?
Marc:Do you have a relationship?
Marc:Oh, you do.
Guest:I know them.
Guest:I know all.
Guest:I mean, the...
Guest:I went in to do Punch-Up one Sunday at DreamWorks and it was the day, no, I went there on a Monday and the day before an article I'd written for the New York Times Magazine about doing Punch-Up and how backwards it is, how they have you do Punch-Up on the almost finished movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you can't say, just think of lines that could be literally yelled in from offstage.
Guest:Which is like, what?
Guest:Like, yeah.
Guest:And it's like, so the movie doesn't work.
Guest:But if someone can yell that, you know, oh, I fell down in some poo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I wrote about that.
Guest:And then Jeffrey Katzenberg had apparently printed that up and given it to all of his guys.
Guest:Like, read this.
Guest:And then he came in and was like, do you have a problem with how we do our movies?
Guest:And I was like, I'm just telling you, you can save tens of millions of dollars if you would let us work on the script and not the movie.
Guest:Like, let us in early to work on the script.
Guest:And then that actually changed.
Guest:Now we work on scripts.
Marc:So you changed Jeffrey Katzenberg's mind?
Marc:Was that a phone call, or were you summoned?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:I was in the room.
Guest:We were all writing, and he came in and was just talking to me.
Guest:This is the guy.
Guest:Oswald.
Guest:And I did stuff on this movie coming up called Rango, and I did- Did you do anything on the New Farrelly Brothers?
Guest:no i did not do that because i don't it looks kind of funny yeah yeah i think that they didn't need you i guess they either didn't need me or i think that one they might not have used a punch-up group i'm not really what determines that who the hell decides that it's not funny how they feel about the script when it's when it's ready to go i mean especially if you're the fairlys you've been writing as long as you have yeah you can just tell that oh this thing is like like they're early i think one of the best
Guest:their best movie is not, there's something about Mary, it's Kingpin.
Marc:Yes, great.
Guest:Because it has the most solid, like, just world view.
Marc:Like, in your mind, like, just quick, because it's interesting about that movie, because it's so fucking disgusting in some parts.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like, if you had three memories of that movie, what would they be?
Guest:The three memories would be Woody Harrelson leaning down to go coochie, coochie, coo to the baby and spilling a little bit of coffee on her.
Guest:Like, he's a good, because that's them fucking with the whole, you know, early, there's the thing about screenwriting is, does the guy pet the dog or does he kick the dog?
Guest:Are you going to make him here?
Guest:So they're having him pet the baby, but in being nice, he's frightening her with a hook and spilling hot coffee on her.
Guest:It just, it just, I just love that that moment just completely confounds, like, I don't know what the fuck's going to happen now in this movie.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:It's so fucking great.
Guest:Bill Murray, when he's explaining, when he's trying to get him to say supplemental income, and then he goes, why don't you go finish that outside?
Guest:Because I literally can't listen to you talk right now.
Guest:It was fucking great.
Guest:And then the scene when they flee from the Hustlers, and they take air in the car, and then he and the girl, Vanessa Angel, are just talking, and they've forgotten about Randy Quaid.
Guest:And they go back to him, and his face is just frozen in this scream.
Guest:Remember that?
Guest:And you realize he's been sitting like that for like three minutes.
Guest:There's all these little touches are so great.
Marc:It's so weird.
Marc:Cause like, I can't like that.
Marc:The scene where she, after the sex scene with the horrendous, where he walks, she walks out of the bathroom and she says, why do you think you really knocked something loose?
Marc:Fucking hate us.
Marc:Or when he's flossing and there's like pieces of meat dangling off the dental floss.
Guest:Giant pieces of corn.
Guest:It's so cartoonish.
Marc:But I love it.
Marc:It's so dark.
Marc:I had completely forgotten about that movie.
Marc:It makes me want to re-watch it.
Guest:Yeah, and the ending is dark.
Guest:I mean, there's not some massive victory at the end.
Guest:It's just he basically breaks even.
Guest:It's like an early 70s movie, but it's so fucking funny.
Marc:But yeah, I think it's important what you said is that, and I think you do this in your stand-up too, is that you create this sort of beautiful loser guy.
Marc:Like, he wasn't a contemptible guy.
Marc:And I think that's what 70s cinema was about.
Marc:You know, a lot of beautiful losers in those movies.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:That's why I was so happy to do...
Guest:Big fan because it was like an early 70s style kind of movie.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That is like, oh, that's those are the characters I want to play.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I haven't seen it's it's weird that you don't see movies that are that are that challenging in terms of how you approach the character.
Marc:Like you watch like I realize that about the Coen brothers.
Marc:That I watched True Grit and I watched it twice because it didn't read as funny to me.
Marc:And the second time I actually got laughs out loud.
Marc:But I realized that their last couple of movies, you know, the moral universe they create really leaves a lot on you.
Marc:I talked about this with Kevin Smith.
Marc:I mean, how are you going to take this in?
Marc:How are you going to integrate this into your life?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A lot of open ended stuff in those movies.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, there are those, the movies that they make, especially, I don't know if you saw A Serious Man.
Marc:Oh yeah, Saturday weekend.
Marc:I'm a Jew.
Marc:I watched it like six times.
Guest:Jesus Christ.
Guest:I watched that movie twice.
Guest:Like I watched the screener and I immediately watched it again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It feels like...
Guest:Whereas most movies, it feels like a small door, a thin door opens and a guy is there to grab you by the arm and go, here we go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Their movies feel like warehouse doors are opening and people are going about their business and no one's there to guide you in.
Guest:And you either got to decide to go in or not.
Guest:No one is going to lead you anywhere.
Guest:And you can just go look at the different areas.
Guest:but no one's telling you how to feel exactly.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:That's exactly a good, that's a good analogy.
Marc:And also I realized about them is that most of their characters and even their serious movies are written as comic characters.
Marc:I mean, they're so broad and so big and so specific that it's very hard not to, that it somehow tempers the horrendousness of some of the stuff that's going on.
Marc:I mean, it's hard to decipher whether or not you're watching a black comedy or a serious, even in Fargo.
Marc:I mean, you know, Buscemi and that other guy, I mean, those are cartoonish characters.
Marc:On some level.
Guest:When he's sitting there bleeding and the other guy's... They remind me of the Warner Brothers cartoon character of there's the big mean bulldog and his little, hey, what are we doing today, butch?
Marc:What are we doing?
Marc:Where are we going?
Guest:And he's just hopping around him.
Guest:It's basically them.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, they claim that Raising Arizona, that that character is based on Wile E. Coyote.
Marc:Wile E. Coyote, yeah.
Guest:Which makes perfect sense.
Guest:And there's a shot when Nicolas Cage is sitting in his chair and they're offering him the chicken wings and he just kind of waves it away.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He literally looks like Wile E. Coyote.
Guest:The way he's slumped.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And with that narrow pelvis and just like, he just looks so drained.
Guest:Back when he made the good choices.
Guest:You mean?
Guest:The Nicolas Cage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, like the coin flip scene in No Country for Old Men, you're terrified and also laughing.
Guest:And you're almost laughing out of terror.
Marc:Well, also that guy looked ridiculous.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And even in the scene where the first guy he kills with the cattle killer, where the guy, what was amazing about that scene is the guy didn't fight it at all.
Marc:He just put it up to his head and the guy was like, what?
Guest:boom yeah well it also you realize that most of the time we're operating at about 40 so if violence were to come our way unlike in movies where people always dodge out of the way when the car comes careening into the oh no cafe no people would just be mowed down well if when you have that moment right because like there's that moment where you're where you're in your head yeah most of us even when you're looking at something you're in your head so when something real happens like someone goes no
Marc:That moment where everything becomes real, where you come out of your head into the present in that weird, visceral, slow motion thing.
Guest:And you do not have time to do anything.
Marc:But freak out.
Guest:There's two things that that reminds me of.
Guest:One, I was driving on the Beltway in D.C.
Guest:with Mark Voice, community Mark Voice, and we're next to this giant petroleum tanker.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was a blazing hot August day, and the traffic was really crazy.
Guest:And we both had this silent like, Jesus, we could just fucking die.
Guest:This thing could either roll over or explode.
Guest:And I think I said that like, God damn, we almost died like eight times.
Guest:And then Mark was like, and yeah, and we wouldn't even have time to go, oh, great.
Guest:Like the universe wouldn't even give us the moment to say one cool thing.
Guest:Here we go.
Guest:And then you used to do a bit.
Guest:It was right after that guy went crazy at the McDonald's in Sandy's.
Marc:Oh, right, right.
Marc:Oh, yeah, the tray.
Guest:Like, you know.
Guest:Yeah, and you said it so perfectly.
Guest:The guy, he's got us.
Marc:It's not the Golden Gate.
Marc:It's just the inside of a box of large fries.
Marc:Yeah, but no, no.
Guest:He's got his tray, and you describe it.
Guest:There's a Big Mac.
Guest:There's his fries.
Guest:There's his orange drink.
Guest:And he's walking along, and you just articulated the thought it said, which is, okay.
Guest:It was like Big Mac, fries, chocolate shake.
Guest:Yeah, just the bovine.
Guest:So you're not even having a thought about your life when you go.
Guest:It's almost like your brain is just doing an inventory.
Guest:That's going to go in me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's just like that.
Guest:There's something, again, so hilarious and horrifying about that.
Guest:It is.
Guest:That's what's horrifying is that I'm just going to die like a dumb cow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want to go out like you want to say something cool.
Marc:But yeah, I think about that a lot when I'm laying in bed.
Marc:It's just like, is it going to just be now?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like because like a lot of people, they die horrible, painful deaths of debilitating diseases.
Marc:But, you know, the hope is that if you're lucky, you're like you go out like a cow.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But you do want to have some reflection.
Marc:I think there's something amazing about people who actually have the time to come to grips with their passing and can be there for their family, though it's horrible.
Guest:Yeah, but what's the choice?
Guest:Do you want to just go out like a cow and everyone's got to just kind of go clean up after you?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or do you want to have time to get your shit in order and have a final statement, but then you're there with all the pain and loss?
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:It's a weird decision to make.
Marc:Apparently there's planning to be done for everybody.
Marc:Do you have a will?
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, we had to go through that whole.
Guest:You know, when you have a kid, you got to sit down and figure out.
Marc:For me, it'd be like sort of like, well, I guess someone can have this shit.
Marc:Write that down, notarize it.
Guest:Make sure the calico cats, the calico should get his shots.
Guest:The other one could go to like a nursing home.
Marc:So have you ever gotten one of those?
Marc:It seems to me that you're in that area where have you gotten those phone calls where you're like, holy shit, it's so-and-so on the phone.
Guest:Oh, I've just had some calls because of doing punch-up for things.
Guest:Other people have called me and go, hey, I'm presenting an award.
Guest:Can you?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And some of them, they don't use what I say, but I've had some interesting conversations with people.
Guest:Like who?
Guest:Dustin Hoffman called me at home one day.
Guest:Get out of here.
Marc:And you didn't know it was coming?
Marc:No, just like, hey.
Marc:Hello, is this Patton Oswalt?
Marc:This is Dustin Hoffman.
Guest:And he was the sweetest.
Guest:And we talked for a bit about maybe you can do this and this and this.
Guest:Like what was it for?
Guest:It was for the Oscars.
Guest:And then he just said, he goes, well, I'm going to pitch this stuff.
Guest:You seem like a delightful young man.
Guest:Can I give you a piece of advice?
Guest:I was like, yeah, sure.
Guest:He goes.
Guest:If you're going to New York, take the 425 p.m.
Guest:flight out of LAX on United because you land in New York.
Guest:It's midnight.
Guest:There's no traffic.
Guest:You'll be right in your hotel room by 1230 a.m.
Guest:I was like, thanks, Dustin.
Guest:Can I give you some advice?
Guest:If you're flying to New York, that's good.
Guest:What was another one?
Guest:Robert De Niro?
Guest:No, I never got the call from De Niro.
Guest:Al Pacino?
Guest:Yeah, is this Patton Oswalt?
Guest:I figured I'd call Patton Oswalt!
Marc:He was kind of lovely on the Golden Globes.
Marc:It's very interesting to watch that show.
Guest:Yeah, he was sweet, and De Niro was kind of hard to watch.
Marc:I actually didn't watch it all the way through, but it's interesting when you really feel people who are truly grateful.
Marc:Like, oh my God, this is really moving.
Marc:Did you see Black Swan?
Marc:No, not yet.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:What are you hearing about it?
Marc:What's your vibe going into it?
Guest:I want to see it because my friends...
Guest:No one is in between.
Guest:They're either like, oh, it's amazing or, oh, it's the campiest piece of overblown trash.
Marc:I can't even see how anyone fucking say that.
Marc:And I can't stand film critics who say, like, you know, haven't we seen this before?
Marc:No.
Marc:Maybe you have and the 12 people you're talking about.
Marc:But why don't you give America a chance to get their mind blown, you fucking pompous cunt?
Guest:I do love the fact that- I said that to him.
Guest:They know who I'm talking to.
Guest:Darren Aronofsky, except for that movie Pie, which I really loved and have seen many, many times, he makes these movies that are awesome and I never want to see them again because they're such an experience.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Requiem for a dream.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:Holy shit, man.
Marc:How are you going to watch that again?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:But no, but Black Swan, I was, you know, what's amazing about it and why he's a genius is that the way he like literally, you know, by five minutes into that movie, because of the music and his focus on ballet, I was like, I've been missing something.
Guest:You know, exactly.
Yeah.
Marc:I've got to get out there.
Marc:Have you seen The Red Shoes?
Marc:The old movie?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I can't remember it that well.
Guest:Yeah, I've seen it like three times, but I want to watch when I see Black Swan.
Guest:I have the criterion, so I'm going to immediately go watch it again.
Marc:Why, because does he draw from that?
Guest:Well, I mean, they're very similar themes of just obsession and insanity and reality starting to flicker a little bit as you get into the role.
Marc:Yeah, it flickers.
Marc:And I'll tell you, Natalie Portman was pretty tremendous.
Marc:And I'm not a huge Natalie Portman because I think she is too controlled as an actress, but this one, he really worked it well.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:I did a movie where I had to have my leg cast in this plaster because they were going to do an effect where my leg was kind of messed up.
Guest:And in the effects house that I went to, there was a bust they did of Natalie Portman.
Guest:They did all the Black Swan stuff.
Guest:I guess she goes through some kind of psychotic...
Guest:Yeah, a little bit.
Guest:Thing, like, yeah, starts hallucinating or something.
Guest:I saw Blue Valentine yesterday.
Guest:Oh, how was that?
Guest:Which is fucking amazing.
Guest:It's just one of those movies.
Guest:Blue Valentine, it's like, oh, they made a movie for fucking adults.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For grownups that can deal with watching life and life represented.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Harshly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But joyously too, but everything.
Guest:No, I like that shit, man.
Guest:And how like in the course of an evening shit can go horribly wrong and then get good again.
Guest:And Jesus Christ, Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams just leave everything out there.
Marc:Yeah, he's pretty special.
Marc:And I saw him at the gym and I was happy that he didn't look that special.
Marc:That made you feel a little better.
Marc:Yeah, like, hey, just a guy.
Marc:There's that guy.
Marc:He was shorter than I thought.
Marc:He was at the Y, which makes me respect him more.
Marc:I saw Tim Allen at the Y once and I was like, that's Tim Allen at the Y. But like Ryan Gosling at the Y, it was kind of good.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I also like that there seems to be this crop of actors, I think Gosling and Michelle Williams, if you watch Wendy and Lucy stuff.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:I like that movie.
Guest:Yeah, they don't have that fucking, they're not geniuses.
Guest:They're working actors that do the fucking work and get amazing results.
Guest:But I think people that approach stuff from the angle of, I'm a genius and I don't know where it comes from, then you start getting that affected bullshit.
Marc:Who's one of them?
Guest:There's a lot of actresses and actors that I think they just have that kind of,
Guest:They think they're savants.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just don't know where it comes from.
Marc:Oh, shut the fuck up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:These people work hard.
Guest:Like sit down, underline your goddamn script, rehearse it.
Marc:And arguably the greatest actor of all time right now, Meryl Streep does that.
Marc:She's not a genius person.
Marc:She's like, she works.
Guest:No, she works really fucking hard.
Marc:She's got a craft in place.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:She has some training and other people that they act.
Guest:It's still like an example.
Guest:I don't know if you watched.
Guest:If you saw, oh, God damn it.
Guest:What was the one that Jeff Bridges won the Academy Award for last year?
Guest:He goes into a bar and him and Duvall have that little conversation.
Guest:And it just feels like you're watching a documentary.
Marc:Crazy Heart.
Marc:Crazy Heart.
Marc:Oh, thank fucking Christ.
Marc:That's interesting because Duvall did the original movie that was Contender Mercy.
Marc:Which is a great fucking movie.
Guest:Oh, fuck.
Guest:That's a great fucking movie.
Guest:That screenplay is so genius.
Guest:The way it's structured is so brilliant.
Marc:It's so ballsy.
Marc:It's so weird.
Marc:I have such a bad knack for reading screenplays because I actually read for A Serious Man, the Coen Brothers movie.
Marc:I read for the lead.
Marc:And when I read that script, I was like, how are they going to make a movie out of this?
Guest:I read for the brother that gets caught at the Northern.
Guest:Remember the guy...
Guest:What the fuck is his name?
Guest:He's a big voice actor guy.
Guest:He played the fucked up brother.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The Jewish guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he's funny.
Guest:And I remember too reading that script like how is this going to look?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What the fuck?
Marc:What are they thinking?
Marc:It really impressed me about them because like it was at that moment you realize no one's telling these guys what to do.
Guest:Yeah, no, yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you ever deal with them?
Guest:Yeah, I flew out to Minnesota, and I went to their offices, and they had the- For the brother part?
Marc:Or just for something else?
Guest:For the brother part.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:And here's how into it they are.
Guest:For this movie, they had decorated their offices, made it look like that 60s suburban, like the couch in the waiting room.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Had the plastic covering on it.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And all the fixtures.
Guest:They create a whole environment.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:and they were really into it, and they were really fun guys to talk to.
Guest:I mean, they're big movie geeks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we kind of bonded on that, and we talked about this stuff.
Guest:But again, I love that when I read a script and just like, the fuck?
Marc:Yeah, no kidding.
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:How are they going to do this?
Guest:How do you pull this off?
Guest:Even like tonally, how will you pull this off?
Marc:Well, the whole thing is tone.
Marc:I mean, so much of that movie is about capturing a slice of like this weird kind of first wave of middle class Jews and of all places, you know, up there.
Marc:You know, it was very specific.
Marc:And what was interesting to me, given that it was the late 60s, is just how in place that middle, those definitions of middle class Jew is.
Marc:I grew up in it in New Mexico.
Marc:But that same environment?
Marc:Well, just sort of, you know, conservative Jews, like the guy who's like, hey, come here.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That actor, I saw him at the... I did a little couple line thing in the next Harold and Kumar movie and he was there and I was so happy to meet him.
Guest:He was like the nicest guy.
Guest:God, he was so great.
Marc:And the thing that they really isolated that I thought was great was just the ridiculousness
Marc:and the beauty of Jewish parables.
Marc:Because I've got books of them, Martin Buber's translation of Hasidic tales, and you look to these books, there's wisdom here, and they all are like that dentist story.
Marc:What does it mean?
Marc:What does it mean?
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:Why did you just drag me through that shit?
Guest:I can't articulate it.
Guest:How fun it was to read the script and exciting always knowing that I have no idea how they'll do this.
Guest:This will look completely different than what I've just read.
Guest:And it was like reading a great novel.
Marc:No, I think all their movies do the same thing as books.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:Now, before we finish up, let's deal with, we don't have to get any specifics about our engagement around this, but in talking about, let's stick with the incident of the guy who used your material in a speech.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And talk about your feelings about how to handle something that is blatant plagiarism in a venue that big.
Marc:I mean, what happened exactly?
Guest:Well, I know that you and I had some private disagreements about this.
Guest:What happened was I suddenly started getting emails one day from different fans, and then people were posting it on my Facebook fan page that, hey...
Guest:One of them was the guy, the opening act had filmed him.
Guest:An actor in the Midwest was doing my act, word for word, just verbatim reciting my act the way that an actor would memorize a monologue, I guess, and then was claiming that the other comedians he was working with...
Guest:He told them that... They said, hey, I think that's... And he also did bits from Louis C.K.
Guest:and Dave Attell.
Guest:And they said, hey, those are... And he said, I write for those guys.
Guest:I wrote all those bits.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then... So he was crazy.
Guest:Well, he was crazy.
Guest:And then he got busted because these guys filmed him and were putting it all over the internet.
Guest:And I didn't want to...
Guest:I didn't want to say anything about it.
Guest:It was the same way with, I wanted to handle it the way that Louis C.K.
Guest:handled Dane Cook.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, I just don't want to fucking talk about this.
Guest:Or Louis said, yes, those are my bits.
Guest:I don't care.
Guest:I'm going to write more.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And that was my attitude.
Guest:Like, fuck it.
Guest:Those are bits from two albums ago.
Marc:I'll write more.
Marc:This is a loser.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:This is some, yeah.
Guest:Some guy.
Guest:But then the guy, but then when I wasn't saying anything and then it was starting to get picked up all over the internet and people were writing, you know, The Onion was writing about it and HuffPo wrote about it.
Guest:and people were like, well, Patton's not saying anything about this.
Guest:Maybe this guy did write this stuff.
Guest:No.
Guest:I swear to God, that was like in all the comments.
Guest:They were dating you.
Guest:And some of the article.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then I just basically came out and said, you know, this guy took my stuff, and, you know, I don't even do these bits anymore, but these are my bits.
Guest:They're on album stuff.
Guest:And then the guy wrote to me and said, you know, I was just –
Guest:I did do your stuff, and I feel terrible.
Guest:I was just trying to raise money for this theater.
Guest:They're struggling, and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And then I, of course, again, the way a sociopath would just go, I'll just tell him this line.
Guest:He'll eat it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I don't...
Guest:Is there nothing more enraging than when someone lies to you badly?
Guest:That's even more insulting because it's like, I think that you're dumb enough to eat this shit.
Marc:Well, they don't think that way.
Marc:They're just being manipulated.
Marc:They're trying to displace blame.
Guest:Yeah, and then I called the theater manager, and he's like, that wasn't a benefit, though.
Guest:All the money went to him.
Guest:So then I just said, hey, look.
Guest:And I basically called him out, not even for stealing.
Guest:You're trying to make everyone look horrible, and you're clearly a horrible person and stop it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then that and then... A sick person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I'm just done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:And then three weeks later, I get a call from the New York Times like, hey, this kid did the valedictorian speech at Columbia and basically did one of your bits as if it happened to him.
Guest:I was like, oh, God damn it.
Guest:So I just put a link on my Twitter.
Guest:That's all I said was like, oh, here you go.
Guest:And then that just kind of... And then he wrote to me and said, hey, I'm sorry.
Guest:And then I just went, fine.
Guest:And then I just... I dropped it at that point.
Guest:But it just bothered me that...
Marc:that that all that yeah there was baiting going on of like why isn't patent saying anything about this stuff and blah blah blah well yeah because like you know when i dealt with carlos and i talked to you about this that like it always seems to me but i guess it's really impossible in the internet age to deal with it diplomatically or to threaten legal action and have the guy shut up because they're ever they're all eyes are upon you because somebody has provoked cornered you into the position to make a public statement and
Guest:I'm raising a daughter and I'm struggling in my career still.
Guest:I know that people look at me and go, oh, you're fucking successful.
Guest:No, you're not.
Guest:Success just means more work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'm like, I don't have time to hire a fucking lawyer and then give this guy more fucking exposure.
Guest:And then...
Guest:As other friends of ours who have taken legal action find out, it ends up costing you more fucking money.
Guest:To me, the best thing to do is you just shame these people, and then they stop.
Guest:Because all they want is attention, so if you give them negative attention that starts to hurt their career, that's the only way to stop.
Marc:But neither one of these guys in your situation had a career, and that guy wasn't going to have a career.
Guest:No, except that what was starting to happen was he was so – because, yeah, he doesn't have a career.
Guest:Trying to capitalize on it.
Guest:He doesn't have a career, but he also has nothing to lose of, like, I'm just going to keep repeating that I wrote this stuff and Patton didn't.
Guest:I wrote it and Patton didn't, and then that can become a meme.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm like, I'm just going to fucking nip this in the bud and get on with my –
Marc:But I think I think my curiosity is and more so in the case of the valedictorian speech is that, you know, have you thought through, you know, a reasonable way that we can protect ourselves?
Marc:I mean, outside of public shaming and creating sort of, you know, cyber lynch mobs that aren't there precedents being set?
Marc:I read an article that there is a way to defend intellectual property on this level.
Marc:Well,
Guest:But I'm at a loss because I put that material on an album and in a TV special.
Guest:I mean, I don't know what else I can do beyond that.
Marc:Well, I'm just saying that that guy should be penalized.
Marc:I mean, you know, right.
Marc:I understand you're protected and it's clear, but it bothers me that...
Marc:The legal system in and of itself, it just seems to me that none of us, because we don't engage with it, because we've become afraid of how much it's going to cost.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And like any time you like you should get a lawyer, I'm like, oh, for me with the divorce, I'm like, there's nothing going to happen.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's a shame that in something like intellectual property where, you know, if we had time or we were to do some due diligence on it, that we might be able to create a precedent that would protect our material.
Guest:Yeah, you know what?
Guest:That is completely true.
Guest:I just know I'm not the one that's going to do it.
Marc:God damn it, I was counting on you.
Guest:A, it's because of fear, and B, it's because there's shit I want to do.
Marc:Yeah, there's too much time.
Guest:I don't have the fucking time.
Guest:I hear you.
Guest:And I've seen people go through the court system, and that has to become your career.
Guest:And I don't want that to be my career.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And luckily, I have enough people that...
Guest:I guess they know my bits well enough.
Guest:Like that kid that was opening for that guy that, that immediately started filming and going, this, these aren't his bits.
Marc:Yeah, no, it definitely, it's just, it's, it's a weird world we live in with the amount of information that people no longer, they, for somehow it's almost sociopathic and how people don't realize that information has ownership that there, that this,
Guest:Or especially phraseology has ownership.
Guest:Phraseology has a personality.
Marc:That was a defense.
Marc:That was actually argued in court, and I should do a little homework on it and maybe talk about it on another episode, that if you can prove that this is you and your phrasing, that you do have protection somehow.
Guest:But also, the other strike that we have against us being comedians is there is still a part of the public, and especially a part of the intelligentsia, that people you think would know better, smart people, paid columnists and- Still lift.
Guest:Not only do they lift, but they are 100% confident that comedians don't write their stuff.
Guest:They get it out of joke books.
Guest:Everyone knows that.
Guest:That is ridiculous.
Guest:That guy, Barnacle, he's some- Mike Barnacle, yeah.
Guest:Mike Barnacle took-
Guest:tons of stuff from George Carlin and there was a columnist in the LA Times but Carlin took him down though he paid for that but other people still a Barnacle still has a career and other columnists especially there was one in the LA Times and I forget his name who said Carlin didn't write that stuff
Guest:He got those out of joke books.
Guest:Those are jokes.
Guest:This is a paid columnist in the L.A.
Guest:Times.
Marc:Who was reading a joke book by George Carlin.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah, well, I see there's a book that has got his name on it.
Guest:He got it out of his book.
Marc:Out of that book, the George Carlin joke book.
Guest:And I still have people that, you know, God, you're putting out a new album?
Guest:Like, I'm going to record a new album in the spring.
Guest:And I was talking to a guy on my book tour.
Guest:He goes, now, I see you're recording a new album.
Guest:I go, yeah.
Guest:He goes, will it have, like, new stuff on it?
I'm like, yeah.
Guest:Yes, I guess I have to you have to write new jokes on the album.
Guest:Now, where are you getting these like he was trying to like, what have you what did I find some obscure book that I can now record?
Guest:But he seriously thought that's what I was doing.
Marc:But your jokes now, the great thing that I think that you mentioned is happening to you, and I have not read the book, but I'm sure there's bits of it in the book, is that as you get older, as you have a life and responsibility, that all of a sudden, you're the one who said to me years ago, you said, you looked at me, I don't remember what I did to provoke it, but I never forgot it.
Marc:You're like, the truth is hack.
Marc:That was a classic Patton Oswalt game.
Marc:That was top of the batter.
Marc:Like, bing, bing, the truth is hack.
Marc:I'm going back into my head now to invent fat people.
Marc:Oh, I like that.
Guest:The truth is hack.
Marc:Yeah, you said that.
Guest:You like that.
Guest:Thanks for remembering me, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But now are you finding that that truth that may have been approached in a hackneyed way is now starting to resemble your life at all?
Marc:Oh, totally.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You realize that, look, just like with some cliches, a cliche must have grown out of somebody witnessing something, and then like a game of telephone, it gets passed down and becomes kind of generalized.
Marc:Right.
Marc:If they're not racist, they can be helpful.
Marc:They can be very helpful.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're finding that with your child and that kind of stuff.
Guest:Oh, Jesus.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think the only way to make it not hack is to approach the truth from as honest a personal viewpoint as you possibly can and just admit everything, admit every fucking thought and allow every thought.
Marc:Well, no, I believe that, too.
Marc:But allowing the thought, I think, is important with you because that, you know, when you present the truth as what it is, your allowance, you know, has analogies and metaphors that are, as I said, Rabelazian.
Marc:So, you know, changing a diaper, we could be with the Patton Oswalt joke in a spaceship within three minutes.
Marc:And you will be.
Guest:Yeah, there'll be a diaper on a spaceship.
Marc:All right, man.
Marc:Well, Greg, best of luck with the book.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Zombie Spaceship Wasteland.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's basically essays, true essays about you and funny things that came out of your head.
Guest:And good luck with your book, Heroin Push-Ups Ice Cream.
Guest:I cannot wait to read that.
Guest:I never did heroin.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Never twice, but I didn't shoot it.
Guest:Yay!
Guest:All right.
Marc:Thanks, Patton.
Guest:My pleasure.
Thank you.
Marc:Okay, let's end this thing.
Marc:That was the lovely Patton Oswalt, who I get along with now.
Marc:Yeah, pretty soon I'm going to get along with everybody, and, you know, it's not going to happen.
Marc:Thank you for listening to the show.
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Marc:Goodbye.