Episode 1425 - Steven Yeun

Episode 1425 • Released April 10, 2023 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf it's been my podcast for a long time i think we're in our 13th year here or something like that isn't that crazy hundreds and hundreds of conversations

00:00:28Marc:If you're curious about that, who's been on?

00:00:32Marc:WTFpod.com slash podcast.

00:00:34Marc:You can do a search.

00:00:35Marc:Sometimes I have to do it.

00:00:37Marc:I literally have to search my own show's archives on my own website to see if I talk to a person on my show.

00:00:47Marc:But I guess that's just the nature of doing this thing for a long time.

00:00:52Marc:How are you?

00:00:52Marc:How's everything?

00:00:54Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Stephen Yoon, who I'm sure you know from The Walking Dead.

00:00:59Marc:He was in the movie Nope.

00:01:01Marc:He was nominated for Best Actor in 2021 for his performance in Minari.

00:01:07Marc:He has a new Netflix series, Beef, with Ali Wong, who I love.

00:01:12Marc:And I got to tell you, watched all 10 of them.

00:01:15Marc:I think that's how many there were.

00:01:16Marc:I just went through them before they were even out.

00:01:19Marc:I watched every one of them.

00:01:20Marc:And those two acted the fuck out of this thing.

00:01:23Marc:Everybody's great in it.

00:01:25Marc:Look, I don't know if I'm getting soft or I'm just more, I don't know what it is.

00:01:31Marc:Less judgmental, but I don't think that's it.

00:01:33Marc:Steven Yeun, certainly, and I've seen him in many things.

00:01:36Marc:I've seen him in most of the things that he's been in, at least for a while.

00:01:39Marc:I didn't watch.

00:01:39Marc:I mean, I bailed on Walking Dead after the first season, but I get it.

00:01:43Marc:And he's a great actor.

00:01:46Marc:He may be one of the best actors of his generation.

00:01:49Marc:I'm going to say that.

00:01:50Marc:And Ali Wong has really gotten the hang of it as well.

00:01:53Marc:She's awesome in this thing.

00:01:54Marc:Just, it's great.

00:01:56Marc:It's engaging.

00:02:00Marc:It's exciting.

00:02:02Marc:It's a little menacing.

00:02:04Marc:It's a good show, this beef.

00:02:06Marc:I'm telling you, I'm telling you.

00:02:09Marc:So look, I'm not saying I fucked up my life, but I did.

00:02:14Marc:I'm not saying I regret it.

00:02:16Marc:I don't.

00:02:17Marc:I don't have regrets necessarily, but I do find myself wondering.

00:02:24Marc:You know, there's this weird difference between like, look, I'm a guy that feeds on the moment.

00:02:30Marc:You know, I know all about the now.

00:02:32Marc:All you have is now.

00:02:33Marc:I know all I have is now and I'm eating it.

00:02:36Marc:I'm eating it as we speak.

00:02:37Marc:I'm feasting on the now to the point where I don't always remember it when it was then.

00:02:43Marc:Like, it's not clear to me.

00:02:45Marc:I don't know if I'm getting Alzheimer's or dementia like my father, but the then thing is

00:02:50Marc:It gets a little foggy or something.

00:02:55Marc:I have to be reminded because I'm all in in the moment.

00:02:58Marc:I really am.

00:02:58Marc:I think it's just the way I've designed my life.

00:03:01Marc:I wish I had given myself a little distance from the now, now, now.

00:03:05Marc:I wish I had given myself a little distance from it to the point where, you know, I had to...

00:03:09Marc:delegate or, or, or, uh, hold something back or plan a little better for whatever my creative output is, but it's really, it's really now, now, now, now.

00:03:19Marc:And then, you know, after it's over, I'm like, what just happened?

00:03:22Marc:And I got to go back over it.

00:03:23Marc:I got to listen.

00:03:24Marc:So that there's some part of me that's doing that.

00:03:27Marc:And I, you know, I don't know if I'm annoying or draining or I don't, uh, nurture friendships as much as I should, but, uh,

00:03:35Marc:I don't spend time with a lot of people, and I don't know why.

00:03:38Marc:I feel like I have friends.

00:03:39Marc:I mean, I hang out with Jerry.

00:03:41Marc:I talk to my friend Sam.

00:03:42Marc:But me and Sharpling can't seem to get it together.

00:03:44Marc:It's been months.

00:03:45Marc:We can't just get it together.

00:03:46Marc:Like, let's just have lunch.

00:03:49Marc:I don't know what happens.

00:03:51Marc:And, you know, things get away from me.

00:03:53Marc:And I guess I got to start entertaining people.

00:03:54Marc:I do this every year for every fucking holiday, and I'm sorry.

00:03:59Marc:You know, I don't know if I would go if I was invited, but you kind of like to be invited, I guess.

00:04:04Marc:But I'd probably go to a friend of mine's Seder.

00:04:08Marc:But then you start to think about it.

00:04:09Marc:It's like, is somebody just going to invite you to a Seder because they know you?

00:04:12Marc:I can't get mad about it.

00:04:15Marc:You know, I can't feel hurt about it.

00:04:16Marc:This is why people don't invite me.

00:04:17Marc:Maybe I get too emotionally invested too quickly with new friendships or with people in general.

00:04:22Marc:And they're like, you know, it's like taxing and it doesn't go both ways.

00:04:25Marc:I don't know.

00:04:26Marc:I don't understand it.

00:04:28Marc:But I have a new buddy who's a Jew.

00:04:30Marc:And, you know, I thought Passover was sort of like bring in the stragglers.

00:04:35Marc:You know, it's like, you know, put another chair out.

00:04:37Marc:Leave that one empty for Elijah.

00:04:40Marc:But we can put one next to it.

00:04:42Marc:We're out of chairs.

00:04:43Marc:Well, then let him sit in the Elijah chair.

00:04:45Marc:And maybe if Elijah comes, he'll sit on his lap.

00:04:47Marc:That should be something.

00:04:48Marc:That'd be a memorable Seder.

00:04:49Marc:If the ghost comes in and drinks while he's on our wayward friend's lap.

00:04:55Marc:Where was my invite?

00:04:58Marc:I guess I could have had a Seder here.

00:05:00Marc:I don't know, man.

00:05:01Marc:I just don't.

00:05:01Marc:I don't know if I look, man.

00:05:03Marc:I keep my house together.

00:05:05Marc:I clean.

00:05:06Marc:You know, I, you know, I stay in shape.

00:05:08Marc:You know, I like I like everything to be nice.

00:05:12Marc:But I guess the other part about being an adult, it's like I can make my bed, but apparently I don't entertain enough.

00:05:19Marc:I don't have people over.

00:05:21Marc:I don't socialize or something.

00:05:23Marc:I don't know.

00:05:25Marc:But maybe they'll start to come around now that all these people that I lost to children, all their kids are old now.

00:05:30Marc:So maybe they'll be like, what are you doing, man?

00:05:32Marc:I got, you know, I'm free.

00:05:34Marc:I'm finally free after 20 years.

00:05:37Marc:Hey, dude, I got a little extra time.

00:05:38Marc:I know it's been 18 years, but I got some time now because, yeah, they're out.

00:05:44Marc:They're out.

00:05:44Marc:Everyone's out of the house.

00:05:45Marc:We don't know what to do.

00:05:47Marc:Friends are downsizing.

00:05:48Marc:I was hanging out with Apatow and Flanny the other night.

00:05:53Marc:You know, you're just hanging around with guys your age.

00:05:57Marc:Half the time you're talking about other people, the other time you're talking about your ass, your balls, your blood work, this or that, ailments, wondering if I should be eating that.

00:06:13Marc:Is that a good number?

00:06:14Marc:Is that not a good number?

00:06:15Marc:How's my stomach?

00:06:17Marc:What's going on with that thing?

00:06:19Marc:Did you get it checked?

00:06:21Marc:Got to put a limit on that shit, man.

00:06:23Marc:Definitely got to put a limit on that shit.

00:06:26Marc:Hey, I'm at Largo this Friday, April 14th.

00:06:28Marc:Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets.

00:06:32Marc:I'll be floundering.

00:06:35Marc:I think I'm going to work on a new hour.

00:06:38Marc:It's going to be called Mark Maron, Not Relatable.

00:06:42Marc:That's my big plan.

00:06:45Marc:Mark Maron, not relatable.

00:06:47Marc:You think that's a good pitch?

00:06:48Marc:Also, I guess I got to get this up on the site, but I'm going to be doing a music show at Largo on the 12th of May.

00:06:55Marc:See, that's the other thing I'm battling with.

00:06:57Marc:You know, and I was talking at the beginning about the now, the now, the now.

00:07:02Marc:Right.

00:07:03Marc:And I went into the attic.

00:07:06Marc:In the attics of your life, filled with me.

00:07:17Marc:I don't know the words, but I went into the attic because I got a plan.

00:07:26Marc:So I've got these four boxes of slides.

00:07:30Marc:I had to go find them in my attic.

00:07:31Marc:So I'm up in the attic.

00:07:33Marc:And it's my shit.

00:07:34Marc:It's not like, you know, what's in the attic?

00:07:36Marc:I know what's in the attic.

00:07:37Marc:I put it in the attic.

00:07:37Marc:It's not like, you know, there's not centuries-old shit in the attic.

00:07:40Marc:It's just the, you know, the history of me in about a dozen boxes in different forms.

00:07:45Marc:Old artwork, old writing, a bunch of videotapes, cassette tapes.

00:07:50Marc:But there's these four boxes of slides and carousels that my parents had.

00:07:54Marc:They were around the house from the early 60s.

00:07:57Marc:I got slides of their wedding.

00:07:58Marc:I got slides of trips they took in the...

00:08:00Marc:early 60s and then there's the birth of me and just random stuff on slides so I went online thank this is actually I got promoted this a sponsored ad came up on one of my feeds about this slide app where you can hold the slide up over a uh over a white screen and take a picture of it and it'll make it a it'll clean up the image and make it a an image on your phone or on your computer so I got it and it's kind of amazing

00:08:24Marc:On my Instagram, at Mark Maron, I posted a picture of me in some pretty groovy pants.

00:08:30Marc:But so I'm going through that, and I think I'm going to hold on to the app.

00:08:34Marc:But what am I doing?

00:08:35Marc:What am I salvaging?

00:08:36Marc:What do I need to know?

00:08:37Marc:That I wore those pants when I was four?

00:08:40Marc:What do I need to know?

00:08:41Marc:That I lived, that I existed, that I had no idea where life would...

00:08:47Marc:would take me where it took me.

00:08:49Marc:Sure, sure, there's that.

00:08:50Marc:And then there's another box of journals.

00:08:52Marc:And I looked at, I wrote very compulsively, like three full journals when my wife left me, when Mishno left me.

00:08:59Marc:And I'm reading them.

00:09:01Marc:And it's amazing when you do actually journal the immediacy of the feelings that come out on that page.

00:09:07Marc:And also, it's hard to read old journals when you realize, like, wow, man, I'm still spinning the same fucking plates.

00:09:15Marc:But I don't know.

00:09:15Marc:Maybe I'll go over this stuff.

00:09:17Marc:Maybe I'll go over it on some bonus content.

00:09:20Marc:Maybe I'll do a journal thing.

00:09:21Marc:I'll try to find select pieces of these journals of heartbreak and read them aloud.

00:09:27Marc:So what else has been happening?

00:09:29Marc:Look, I've been going to Tarantino's Theater, not at his house, but the New Beverly.

00:09:34Marc:I went with Kit and saw The In-Laws the other night, a movie I've seen so much.

00:09:39Marc:But it's sort of sad and interesting that these prints, because he's using, these are 35 millimeter prints.

00:09:47Marc:And if that was the best print he could find in The In-Laws, all that stuff is going away, man.

00:09:52Marc:It's literally fading away.

00:09:54Marc:And the experience of seeing film on film is kind of spectacular.

00:09:58Marc:And I was in a full room, a full theater of people, many who have not seen The In-Laws because they asked, the guy who was curating asked.

00:10:06Marc:And to see people laugh at that movie for the first time was just beautiful.

00:10:10Marc:And me having seen it a dozen times, at least laughing my balls off.

00:10:14Marc:I'm sorry, laughing my ass off.

00:10:16Marc:That doesn't matter.

00:10:17Marc:Laughing.

00:10:18Marc:All of a sudden, I'm able to laugh a little more.

00:10:22Marc:What a relief.

00:10:23Marc:I don't know what was stopping it, but I'm laughing a lot.

00:10:27Marc:And we had a nice time.

00:10:29Marc:And then two days later, we go to see The Godfather 2, which Kit had never seen.

00:10:33Marc:And I've seen that a dozen, 20 times.

00:10:38Marc:But on film, that was a better print.

00:10:40Marc:Wow, what a fucking treat to be in a movie theater with people, time traveling, watching The Godfather 2.

00:10:47Marc:Wow.

00:10:48Marc:Couple things, though.

00:10:49Marc:How did he not know that Fanucci was the boss of the block?

00:10:52Marc:Doesn't matter.

00:10:53Marc:Look, movies are movies.

00:10:55Marc:Listen, Stephen Yoon is here.

00:10:57Marc:And I got to be honest with you.

00:10:59Marc:This series is great.

00:11:01Marc:He's great in it, as is Ali, as is everyone involved.

00:11:04Marc:It's called Beef.

00:11:06Marc:And all the episodes are streaming on Netflix now.

00:11:08Marc:This is me and Stephen Yoon hanging out.

00:11:13Marc:You've been, like, playing all your life?

00:11:23Guest:I've self-taught since, like, sixth grade.

00:11:26Guest:And so, like, you know, you learn by, like, memorizing licks or just, like, copying songs you like.

00:11:34Guest:Yeah.

00:11:35Guest:Like, who do you like to play?

00:11:37Guest:Oh, man.

00:11:38Guest:I'm a suburb, emo, 90s alt rock kid.

00:11:44Guest:So I was like listening to Nirvana.

00:11:47Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:11:49Guest:Like Nirvana or Incubus or like, you know what I mean?

00:11:53Guest:We all have our version of like county rock.

00:11:55Guest:Yeah.

00:11:55Guest:Oh, and then I go deeper though.

00:11:56Guest:I go into Christian rock too.

00:11:58Guest:Oh, really?

00:11:59Guest:Because I grew up in the church.

00:12:00Guest:So that's how you did it for beef for the show?

00:12:04Guest:Oh, you watched it?

00:12:05Guest:I did, yeah.

00:12:05Guest:Oh, hell yeah.

00:12:06Guest:Did you watch all of it?

00:12:07Guest:I did.

00:12:07Guest:Thank you.

00:12:08Guest:Fuck yeah.

00:12:10Guest:Dude, that was like the trippiest thing to do.

00:12:13Guest:That was like something familiar to you.

00:12:15Guest:Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:12:16Guest:And like the craziest kind of familiar because you have to approach it with like self-aware honesty.

00:12:23Yeah.

00:12:23Marc:In particular, the sort of Korean Christian youth church.

00:12:29Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:31Marc:You have to be earnest about it.

00:12:32Guest:You do, whereas I feel like if you are not, you render it in judgment, good or bad, which I think is just off.

00:12:41Marc:If you don't sort of commit to the honesty of it, it can be read differently, either like you're condescending or you're mocking or whatever.

00:12:49Guest:Or even uplifting it in a way that I'm not even intending to.

00:12:52Guest:It's kind of just like...

00:12:53Marc:Oh, right.

00:12:54Marc:So there's also the issue of like, you're selling it.

00:12:57Guest:Yeah.

00:12:57Guest:And I don't want to do either.

00:12:58Guest:I just want to be like, humans exist here as well.

00:13:01Guest:You know what I mean?

00:13:03Guest:But wait, you grew up with that?

00:13:05Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:13:05Guest:Deep.

00:13:06Guest:Deep.

00:13:06Guest:Oh, really?

00:13:07Guest:Yeah.

00:13:08Guest:So where'd you grow up?

00:13:10Guest:I grew up in... So I was born in Korea, and then we moved... Oh, wow.

00:13:14Guest:Yeah.

00:13:15Marc:So your parents are... You're not... You're first generation.

00:13:18Marc:I'm first generation, yeah.

00:13:19Guest:Yeah.

00:13:20Guest:What we would say when we first came over here was I was called a 1.5-er.

00:13:23Guest:Yeah.

00:13:24Guest:Where I was like five when I came... Four when I came over.

00:13:26Guest:Yeah.

00:13:27Guest:And so we moved to Canada first for about a year and then moved to Michigan, and I grew up there.

00:13:32Marc:And moved to Michigan?

00:13:33Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:13:33Marc:And you grew up in Michigan, but did you get...

00:13:35Marc:Did you get citizenship in Canada or how did it work?

00:13:38Guest:So my dad was actually chilling in Korea.

00:13:42Guest:He was like an architect.

00:13:43Guest:He had a house in Seoul before the 88 Olympics.

00:13:46Guest:Like there was no need for us to leave.

00:13:48Guest:Yeah.

00:13:49Guest:But my theory is, is that he's the second born son of five sons.

00:13:52Guest:Yeah.

00:13:53Guest:Which is probably the most unseen son.

00:13:56Yeah.

00:13:56Guest:Yeah.

00:13:57Guest:Really?

00:13:57Guest:In the family?

00:13:58Guest:You know what I mean?

00:13:58Guest:Like the firstborn gets all like the spoils.

00:14:00Guest:Right, and the second one.

00:14:01Guest:Just kind of gets, has to do all the things that an older brother has to do.

00:14:05Marc:And then they regroup and do another one with a little more focus?

00:14:08Guest:What do you mean?

00:14:09Guest:There's five of them?

00:14:10Guest:There's five of them.

00:14:11Guest:And he's a second, so there's three more after?

00:14:13Guest:Three more after.

00:14:13Guest:And he like really...

00:14:15Guest:like took care of his younger brothers oh yeah yeah and so like i've asked him this and he won't he won't corroborate but he'll like silently nod his head to be like maybe um i was like oh you left because like you wanted to like desperately like claim your stake and like be seen you wanted to like be noticed for yours for what you've done yeah and so was he a successful architect

00:14:38Guest:Yeah.

00:14:39Guest:He was working at a firm.

00:14:40Guest:Like he was doing it.

00:14:41Guest:He was like on the trajectory.

00:14:42Guest:All of his friends were like, why are you leaving?

00:14:44Guest:Huh?

00:14:45Guest:You own a home in Seoul.

00:14:47Guest:Yeah.

00:14:47Guest:Before the 88 Olympics.

00:14:49Guest:If we stayed on that property and my mom was like, don't sell it.

00:14:53Guest:Let's wait till the, after the Olympics.

00:14:55Guest:Yeah.

00:14:55Guest:During the Olympics was when a lot of, like, you know, student protests and, like, a lot of social unrest and upheaval was happening.

00:15:02Guest:And so, like, things felt very, I guess maybe for his eyes, untenable.

00:15:09Guest:Yeah.

00:15:09Guest:And so we left.

00:15:10Guest:But, like, if he would have just stayed, we probably could have sold that house for, like, millions of dollars.

00:15:16Marc:I just, I have no, why would I have any sense?

00:15:19Marc:I just don't know.

00:15:20Marc:what it would be like to live in South Korea.

00:15:23Marc:Yeah.

00:15:23Marc:I mean, to me, it's just sort of like, I'm nervous enough here.

00:15:29Marc:But just to be living... South Korea is great right now.

00:15:31Marc:It is?

00:15:31Marc:And it's been for a long time.

00:15:33Marc:But what about the fucking weirdo up in North Korea?

00:15:36Marc:You just... That's just something you deal with or adapt to or don't think about?

00:15:42Guest:I think so.

00:15:42Guest:I mean, I wouldn't particularly know, like, the deep, deep.

00:15:45Guest:Yeah.

00:15:45Guest:But, like, I remember visiting...

00:15:48Guest:The year that Kim Jong-il died.

00:15:50Guest:Yeah.

00:15:51Guest:The old man.

00:15:52Guest:Yeah.

00:15:52Guest:And I was like in Korea and I was like, oh shit, like, do we need to like batten down the hatches or something?

00:15:59Guest:Like what's going on?

00:15:59Guest:And people were just like, no, like, it's just like, it's just there.

00:16:04Guest:They're going to do their thing.

00:16:07Guest:Yeah.

00:16:08Guest:It's just like a threat you understand.

00:16:10Guest:Right.

00:16:11Guest:Yeah.

00:16:11Guest:It's like shark infested waters.

00:16:13Guest:But you visit there often?

00:16:15Guest:I used to go pretty often.

00:16:16Guest:I hope to go more often.

00:16:18Guest:Because you have family there still?

00:16:19Guest:I have family there, and I was working there a lot.

00:16:22Guest:Not a lot.

00:16:23Guest:Two movies I did.

00:16:24Guest:Oh, in the film?

00:16:24Guest:Yeah, right, right.

00:16:25Guest:Two Korean movies?

00:16:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:27Guest:And is your grandparents there?

00:16:28Guest:Anybody left?

00:16:29Guest:No, my grandparents are all passed away.

00:16:31Guest:I have a lot of aunts and uncles and a lot of cousins.

00:16:34Guest:Yeah, I got like 40 cousins, man.

00:16:36Marc:Really?

00:16:38Marc:So, okay, so they come to Canada, but does he, did he, you know, I know, did he stay an architect?

00:16:45Guest:No, I mean, I remember growing up, him having a drafting board and, like, you know.

00:16:50Guest:Yeah.

00:16:51Guest:It was fun, like, stealing his, like, you know, those things where you can, like, rub out a tree.

00:16:55Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:56Guest:Those rubber eraser things.

00:16:57Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:58Guest:And I would just, like, mess with those.

00:17:00Guest:But, like, beyond that, he never touched it.

00:17:02Guest:Instead, he started a beauty supply.

00:17:05Guest:And...

00:17:06Guest:Which is common for, like, it was, like, for Koreans in that area, it was, like, laundromat or beauty supply.

00:17:12Guest:How does that... Why has that happened?

00:17:14Guest:Do you have any idea?

00:17:15Guest:Just in the same way that all networks happen.

00:17:17Guest:You know, like, there's, like, a... Yeah?

00:17:19Guest:There's, like, a cultural network that exists, and then when you immigrate, you kind of, like, get access to that network.

00:17:27Guest:But why those two businesses?

00:17:28Guest:I have no clue.

00:17:30Guest:Like, that's what they found, you know?

00:17:32Marc:Like, I have no clue, but... It's so... It always strikes me as odd...

00:17:36Marc:Because I remember I had a landlord in New York who was Dominican.

00:17:39Marc:He was a dentist.

00:17:40Marc:But he couldn't be a dentist here unless he went to school again.

00:17:42Guest:Yeah.

00:17:43Marc:So he just was doing other shit.

00:17:44Marc:Yeah.

00:17:45Marc:But it's just odd to me.

00:17:46Marc:Like, there's a guy who's a comic from Egypt.

00:17:49Marc:He used to be a heart surgeon.

00:17:50Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:50Guest:You know that guy?

00:17:51Guest:I forget his name.

00:17:52Marc:And now he's just, like, here.

00:17:53Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?

00:17:55Guest:You're a heart surgeon.

00:17:56Guest:You're getting to, which is a deeper conversation, in my opinion.

00:18:01Guest:You're getting to...

00:18:03Guest:The way that society renders people, you know, like maybe the things that we've been talking about, like on the surface for the last decade plus, which is like, and, and forever, which is why, like, why does this place move me in unconscious ways as an outsider that I can't explain to an insider?

00:18:26Guest:You mean America?

00:18:27Guest:America.

00:18:28Guest:Any place.

00:18:29Guest:Any place you immigrate to.

00:18:31Guest:Yeah, that you immigrate to.

00:18:32Guest:It's like, why am I being pushed and shoved and positioned and locked in a specific place that I can only operate that is so unconscious to me in ways.

00:18:42Guest:You're like, I was a heart surgeon, and you can protest and proselytize that however much you want, but they're like, nah, but you can only drive this.

00:18:50Guest:You can drive a cab.

00:18:51Guest:It's like...

00:18:52Guest:Oh, I see what you're saying.

00:18:53Guest:You know what I mean?

00:18:54Marc:Yeah, I just, that you either have to do what's necessary to be credentialed

00:19:03Marc:in the place you go to or just do another job.

00:19:07Guest:Yeah, and usually if you have to let go of your credentials, which like a lot of those things don't transfer over, you get reset into just like the Matrix.

00:19:16Guest:And you're like, you look like that, you go over there.

00:19:20Marc:Yeah, or you... But it seems like not unlike the character that you play in the show, that there's this... If you have it within you to...

00:19:32Marc:have an entrepreneurial spirit about it just to survive, that we make a business.

00:19:39Marc:It seems that culturally sometimes, it doesn't matter what the business is as long as it's successful.

00:19:44Marc:Right?

00:19:45Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:46Guest:It's about figuring out how to make that business and provide for your family.

00:19:51Guest:Totally, totally.

00:19:52Guest:And you can get deeper into it.

00:19:54Guest:It's like, who's allowed under the cloak of...

00:19:58Guest:Light or darkness to make a business without getting fucked with.

00:20:02Guest:Yeah.

00:20:02Guest:You know, that's not available to everybody.

00:20:04Marc:Well, then it seems that that community element comes in.

00:20:07Guest:Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:08Marc:That, you know, when you come in as an immigrant and you meet the tribal elders.

00:20:15Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:17Guest:Case in point, Korean church.

00:20:18Guest:We're back to that.

00:20:19Guest:Yeah.

00:20:20Guest:That's what Korean church is.

00:20:22Marc:is yeah it seems like that it works that way for very for a lot of specific uh religious groups yeah yeah i mean depending on how insulated you know like the orthodox the ultra orthodox yeah you know they're they they i live here in armenia and it's like you know they're there's they have their own things oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well i oh i like armenians i understand like as a korean person i'm like i get yeah it's like that's a deep deep cut so when did you get here how old were you

00:20:51Guest:To L.A.?

00:20:52Guest:No, to America.

00:20:53Guest:To Michigan.

00:20:54Guest:So I was four, and then I grew up in Michigan until I moved to Chicago after college.

00:21:00Guest:But what part of Michigan?

00:21:01Guest:Was it a big Korean community?

00:21:03Guest:Big enough.

00:21:04Marc:You didn't want to go to New York?

00:21:05Guest:I don't even know how to get to New York, man.

00:21:08Marc:I mean, your dad?

00:21:09Marc:I mean, I guess there's Korean communities everywhere.

00:21:13Marc:I mean, it's a pretty big immigrant... A lot of immigrants here.

00:21:17Guest:Here's what I'll say.

00:21:17Guest:Like, in hindsight... Yeah.

00:21:20Guest:I remember when I was in high school and, like, middle school, I would meet New York Koreans and I would meet, like, LA Koreans.

00:21:26Guest:And they were, like, super scary to me.

00:21:28Guest:Really?

00:21:29Guest:Because they were, like, freer in a way that I couldn't understand.

00:21:33Guest:Like, they're, you know, like... Not only were they, like...

00:21:37Guest:seemingly more imposing in just their style and their stature.

00:21:43Guest:But they were just, like, living as if, like, they were just living a little bit more free.

00:21:48Guest:Like, LA Asians could, you know, you can have a community that looks so much like the place...

00:21:55Guest:That, you know, feels inside.

00:21:57Guest:You feel like an insider.

00:21:58Guest:Yeah.

00:21:59Guest:Whereas for me, I was like a perpetual outsider.

00:22:01Guest:In Michigan.

00:22:02Guest:In Michigan.

00:22:02Guest:Like, I could feel it in my church.

00:22:05Guest:Yeah.

00:22:05Guest:Which is like 400 people deep at most.

00:22:08Guest:Yeah.

00:22:09Guest:But then the minute you step outside, like, you just shrink to the matrix of the thing.

00:22:14Guest:Really?

00:22:14Guest:Right?

00:22:14Guest:And like, it wasn't even per se that I was being pushed down.

00:22:18Guest:Yeah.

00:22:19Guest:It was more like...

00:22:21Guest:You know, my parents as non-English speaking immigrants, like they were my model on how to navigate reality.

00:22:30Guest:Yeah.

00:22:31Guest:And they weren't going out shaking hands, hanging out, going to parties.

00:22:35Guest:Right.

00:22:36Guest:They were just putting their head down, quiet, doing work.

00:22:39Marc:And staying within, like, but.

00:22:41Guest:Yeah, staying within their boundaries.

00:22:42Guest:And the community.

00:22:43Guest:And the community, yes.

00:22:44Marc:So everybody socialized with the same people.

00:22:47Marc:Well, the thing about New York is Koreans are pretty well integrated.

00:22:50Marc:Same with here.

00:22:52Marc:It's forced.

00:22:53Guest:It's a different type of integration.

00:22:56Marc:Not unlike whatever beauty supply and cleaning or whatever.

00:23:00Marc:I mean, the bodegas were almost all Korean.

00:23:02Marc:Yeah, yeah, totally.

00:23:04Marc:Totally, yeah.

00:23:04Marc:And you just pick up weird sort of...

00:23:07Marc:Like the thing that always fascinated me about the Korean business model with the bodegas is that they'd have people sitting up front like trimming grapes.

00:23:19Marc:Like to make the fruit salad.

00:23:20Marc:Like nothing goes to waste.

00:23:22Marc:You'd buy these fruit salads and the grapes would have little shaved parts on it.

00:23:26Marc:They'd literally take the brown spots.

00:23:28Marc:Margins, dude.

00:23:28Marc:Margins.

00:23:29Marc:Totally.

00:23:30Marc:And I was like, oh my God, I got to remember that.

00:23:32Marc:You know, because like I'm very, I'm thrifty.

00:23:34Marc:I hate throwing away food.

00:23:36Marc:But anytime stuff starts to go bad, I always think of the Korean bodegas where they're just out in front.

00:23:40Guest:That's just post-war.

00:23:41Guest:That's post-war margins.

00:23:43Guest:You know what I mean?

00:23:43Guest:Like, you know, nothing's going to waste.

00:23:45Guest:We're throwing it all.

00:23:46Guest:I just read about this.

00:23:47Guest:Did you hear about this thing in medieval times called the perpetual stew?

00:23:51Guest:Oh, my God.

00:23:52Guest:I don't know.

00:23:53Guest:I want the recipe.

00:23:54Guest:What does that mean?

00:23:54Guest:Basically, you can have it running at like 167 degrees for years.

00:24:01Guest:And you just keep throwing new shit in there as you get it.

00:24:05Guest:That's from the medieval time?

00:24:06Guest:Yeah.

00:24:06Guest:And I was like, oh, that's gnarly.

00:24:08Guest:Like several year long stew that's just on a consistent boil.

00:24:13Guest:It's kind of, is that good?

00:24:15Guest:Yeah.

00:24:15Guest:I don't know.

00:24:15Guest:It might be delicious.

00:24:16Guest:Like it sounds like diarrhea, but also to be like delicious.

00:24:20Marc:So when you're growing up, the church was the backbone of the whole thing.

00:24:26Guest:Yeah, that was my lifeline, to be quite honest.

00:24:28Guest:That was the place in which I could probably feel my most authentic self.

00:24:33Marc:Yeah?

00:24:34Marc:Yeah.

00:24:35Marc:Because, like, look, man, I mean, I've seen you in a lot of things.

00:24:38Marc:Oh, thanks.

00:24:39Marc:And you're always good, but this beef thing seems to be the deep work, man.

00:24:45Marc:I mean, I know it is what it is, but it's pretty great.

00:24:47Marc:But Ali, you and Ali are just acting the fuck out of the thing.

00:24:51Marc:Oh, thank you.

00:24:51Marc:I appreciate that.

00:24:52Marc:But, I mean, he must have felt that.

00:24:54Marc:I mean, it seems like it was emotionally kind of close to the bone somehow.

00:25:03Guest:Yeah, I wouldn't say like it was.

00:25:05Guest:I agree.

00:25:05Guest:I agree that it would be closer to something that maybe I haven't shown before.

00:25:10Guest:Yeah.

00:25:12Guest:But it was never because I didn't want to show it.

00:25:14Guest:Right.

00:25:14Guest:It was almost because like I just never got the opportunity to live from that gaze.

00:25:19Marc:Well, yeah, but that's what I mean.

00:25:20Marc:I mean, it just seems like this is, you know, you're full in to this thing.

00:25:23Guest:Yeah.

00:25:24Guest:There's, there's like real things I can pull from here.

00:25:27Guest:How did this come about?

00:25:28Guest:Were you part of the creation of it?

00:25:30Guest:Um, I was, yes, I was.

00:25:32Guest:So Sonny, um, Lee Sungjin, the creator, he hit, we've been friends for a minute and he hit me up and, um, uh,

00:25:42Guest:We just chatted and he was just like, hey, I have this idea for a road racing.

00:25:45Guest:I was like, I want to talk about that.

00:25:47Guest:Yeah.

00:25:48Guest:And we talked about it for like hours that first time he called me.

00:25:52Guest:Had he talked to Allie?

00:25:54Guest:He hadn't talked to Allie by then.

00:25:55Guest:So just you.

00:25:56Guest:Yeah.

00:25:56Guest:And we were like kind of cooking it up for a year plus.

00:26:00Guest:And we threw around names like maybe we could ask Stanley Tucci to be in it.

00:26:04Guest:And he could just be like me against Stanley Tucci.

00:26:06Guest:Yeah.

00:26:06Guest:And I was like, that'd be sick.

00:26:09Guest:Love Stanley Tucci.

00:26:10Guest:And then I think he spoke with Ali and then brought in Ali and I was like, oh shit, that could be crazy.

00:26:17Guest:And it turned out to be crazy.

00:26:21Guest:Crazy.

00:26:21Guest:Yeah.

00:26:22Guest:Yeah.

00:26:22Marc:She's so good.

00:26:23Guest:I mean, I know her.

00:26:24Marc:Yeah.

00:26:25Marc:But I have not seen her act as well either.

00:26:28Marc:You've got a deeper resume than her, but I've seen her in a few things and she can act.

00:26:32Marc:But this thing, like it seemed that it so much of it character wise speaks directly to the immigrant experience and to a cultural experience that's specifically Asian that, you know, it just adds a whole other depth to it.

00:26:48Guest:Yeah.

00:26:49Guest:Well, we're touching to like, I know it's interesting because like, I don't know how much I like, I know we throw around this idea of like specificity is universality.

00:26:58Guest:Yeah.

00:26:59Guest:And I, and I think that's true.

00:27:00Guest:Like, I think like chemistry wise, like that is correct.

00:27:04Guest:But I've always had this difficulty with who's asking?

00:27:10Guest:Who's asking for that?

00:27:11Guest:And it changes the intent and the execution based on who's asking for that.

00:27:19Guest:And that sounds usually like

00:27:21Guest:Like, the majority asking for, like, give me more specifics so I can relate to you.

00:27:26Guest:Which I think is an honest and correct expression, like, to say that.

00:27:31Guest:But, like, sometimes how that's processed and put out is, like, let me go more detailed into culture.

00:27:38Guest:When really what we're doing is just...

00:27:41Guest:Doing a lot of the cultural work of, like, the production design, the authenticity of a reality.

00:27:47Guest:Like, we're just cooking that into the back, into the bones of the thing, and then just being humans on top of it.

00:27:54Guest:Like, the relational aspect is that, like, we've passed specificity, and we've just gone to...

00:28:01Guest:This is our life.

00:28:02Guest:The human.

00:28:03Guest:Right.

00:28:03Guest:You know what I mean?

00:28:03Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:04Guest:And I think that phrase is... Again, I'm not trying to shit on that phrase.

00:28:08Guest:It's just like... Whenever I've heard it, I'm like... Specificity?

00:28:11Guest:Yeah.

00:28:12Guest:It feels like... Tell me more.

00:28:15Guest:And it's like... Oh, like...

00:28:18Guest:It's asking us to tell when we actually shouldn't tell at all.

00:28:23Guest:No.

00:28:24Guest:You know what I'm saying?

00:28:25Guest:Yeah.

00:28:25Marc:So what you're saying is that if you set the reality of the thing correctly, you don't have to do anything.

00:28:32Marc:You just got to live in it.

00:28:33Guest:Yeah.

00:28:33Marc:You know, you don't risk becoming, you know, stereotyping yourself for the gaze of the other.

00:28:39Guest:Exactly.

00:28:40Guest:But if it's a mandate coming down to be like, be more specific, you're going to kind of like be like, okay, so like get deeper into my kimchi stew.

00:28:49Guest:And it's like, no, no, no, no.

00:28:50Guest:Like forget about it.

00:28:52Guest:Yeah.

00:28:53Guest:put it there and leave it on the table in the back of the scene and forget about it.

00:28:58Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:28:58Guest:Right?

00:28:58Marc:Well, I think that's happening more.

00:29:00Marc:100%.

00:29:01Marc:I can't remember what other thing I was watching.

00:29:05Marc:You know, I guess what I'm experiencing, but I'm obviously a white guy, is that there is an integration culturally happening.

00:29:13Marc:And then that there is sort of, you know, people seeing past color lines and ethnic lines and just a general sense of acceptance.

00:29:22Guest:Totally.

00:29:22Guest:The gaze at

00:29:22Guest:Self is expanding.

00:29:23Marc:Yeah.

00:29:24Marc:Yeah.

00:29:24Guest:Reality is expanding, which is like so exciting.

00:29:27Guest:Yeah.

00:29:27Guest:It's great.

00:29:28Marc:I just hope it's expanding in reality and not just, you know, fiction.

00:29:31Guest:Yeah.

00:29:32Guest:Well, you know, what gets difficult that I, that I wonder about is like, as reality expands and like these, and, and we get to moving past the,

00:29:43Guest:cultural touchstones and items for authenticity.

00:29:48Guest:What happens to like the capitalism around those things?

00:29:53Guest:Like what happens to the people that sell those things?

00:29:56Guest:And that's going to sense.

00:29:58Guest:Like you can't like if, you know, if kind of you built something on selling culture, um, um,

00:30:08Guest:as we get past it and move deeper into a human understanding and relatability between each other, as reality expands, everyone's going to be able to sell that good.

00:30:17Guest:Yeah.

00:30:17Guest:And that's going to be a thing that we're going to have to deal with.

00:30:20Guest:I don't know how that's going to go.

00:30:21Guest:You're saying that the... The gatekeeping is going to have to... It becomes more competitive.

00:30:25Guest:That and like...

00:30:27Guest:And, like, you know, we'll be able to all kind of, like, touch each other's culture in a real way.

00:30:33Guest:That'd be nice.

00:30:34Guest:Yeah.

00:30:35Guest:Where you can, like, honor each other's culture.

00:30:37Guest:Right.

00:30:37Guest:You know what I mean?

00:30:38Guest:Usually you can just do it through food, you know.

00:30:40Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:40Guest:I think I'm going to try this.

00:30:42Guest:Well, they wouldn't, you know, people sometimes don't love other people cooking their food, you know, and selling off of that.

00:30:49Guest:And I understand that concept.

00:30:50Guest:Yeah.

00:30:51Guest:I don't know where we're... I mean, maybe we're headed in a place where, like, it'll just be, you know, like, everybody's just dabbling in all the things.

00:30:57Guest:We're getting there.

00:30:59Guest:Maybe we're entering into, like, the best fusion era of all time.

00:31:03Guest:Like, people just put and throw in everything.

00:31:05Marc:That's sort of the progressive idea, isn't it?

00:31:07Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:07Guest:We'll see if it happens.

00:31:09Marc:We'll see what happens.

00:31:10Marc:But in terms of the Christianity aspect, I mean...

00:31:14Marc:So you say when you were a kid, it sort of insulated you.

00:31:16Marc:I mean, when do you start to kind of realize there's a bigger world out there?

00:31:20Marc:I mean, were you playing in the Christian band?

00:31:22Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:31:23Marc:I was leading it.

00:31:26Marc:The rock band.

00:31:27Guest:It wasn't a rock band.

00:31:29Guest:It was a weekly praise band that was just our way to be musical in it, lead worship.

00:31:37Guest:I took it very seriously when I was younger.

00:31:39Guest:I still did it into my 20s.

00:31:43Guest:There's no shame in it for me.

00:31:45Guest:You're bringing your kids up in it?

00:31:47Guest:We're not, we don't go to church.

00:31:49Guest:Um, but you know, for me, like I, I still lean into a very spiritual reality.

00:31:54Guest:I, I, I don't know if I root myself in like dogmatic religion itself.

00:32:00Guest:It's more just like, I kind of saw what it was trying to say and I'm kind of living in that space.

00:32:06Marc:Oh yeah.

00:32:07Marc:Without the community.

00:32:09Uh,

00:32:09Guest:But you know what?

00:32:10Guest:Nothing beats, and we're all looking for it in the community.

00:32:15Guest:Unfortunately, sometimes community creates perhaps toxic spaces.

00:32:21Guest:But man, it's nice to be around people.

00:32:24Marc:I think so, yeah.

00:32:25Marc:I mean, especially in this very isolating time right now.

00:32:27Marc:Yeah, yeah, totally.

00:32:29Marc:So what kind of gets you out into the world?

00:32:31Marc:I mean, what was the plan?

00:32:33Marc:I have to assume it wasn't acting.

00:32:37Yeah.

00:32:37Guest:What do you mean?

00:32:39Guest:When I graduated college?

00:32:40Marc:Yeah.

00:32:40Guest:When you were, where'd you go to college for?

00:32:41Guest:I went to Kalamazoo College.

00:32:43Guest:In Michigan.

00:32:44Guest:In Michigan.

00:32:45Guest:Yeah.

00:32:45Guest:And I majored in psychology.

00:32:47Guest:And I did acting while I was there.

00:32:51Guest:I was in the improv group.

00:32:53Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:32:53Guest:A couple plays.

00:32:54Guest:Yeah.

00:32:55Guest:I really did graduate to be an actor.

00:32:59Marc:Did your parents know that?

00:33:01Guest:Yeah.

00:33:02Guest:Yeah.

00:33:02Guest:They gave me a couple years.

00:33:04Guest:They were like, you can have like two, three years.

00:33:05Marc:What was the, what was the other path?

00:33:08Guest:Doctor, of course.

00:33:09Guest:Oh.

00:33:09Guest:Yeah.

00:33:10Guest:It didn't even, it wasn't even that like, those were the only paths.

00:33:14Guest:It was the only paths that anyone could potentially see.

00:33:18Marc:Yeah.

00:33:19Marc:I think that's the thing that's like— Out of what they were experiencing.

00:33:24Marc:Totally.

00:33:25Marc:You're the next generation.

00:33:26Guest:Yeah.

00:33:27Guest:They don't even know other ways to make money beyond doctor, lawyer, dentist, businessman.

00:33:33Marc:Who, your parents' generation?

00:33:34Guest:Yeah.

00:33:35Marc:Oh, well, businessman's in there.

00:33:36Guest:What other ways are there to make money?

00:33:38Guest:Which is general.

00:33:39Marc:I mean, no one believes that anyone can make money acting.

00:33:42Guest:Exactly.

00:33:43Guest:Exactly.

00:33:44Marc:Or like playing music.

00:33:46Guest:Yeah, none of that.

00:33:47Marc:I mean, you know that getting in, but somehow we delude ourselves.

00:33:49Marc:100%.

00:33:51Guest:100%.

00:33:51Marc:But no one of that generation or anyone with any sense is going to be like, oh, you want to make a good living?

00:33:56Marc:Yeah.

00:33:56Marc:Play music.

00:33:58Guest:Yeah.

00:33:58Guest:Totally.

00:33:59Guest:But I think like...

00:34:01Guest:At least if you're like the white kid who's growing up with somewhat more open parents, they definitely know that that's not the path, but you can be like, that's a path.

00:34:17Guest:Whereas for me, I was like, that's not even a path.

00:34:21Guest:It's just dense forest.

00:34:24Guest:You knew that?

00:34:26Guest:Yeah, I had no... But coming out of college, John Cho had just kind of really broken through in a way where I was like, oh, he's on a sitcom.

00:34:35Guest:He had just done his American Pie stuff.

00:34:38Guest:And I was like, oh shit, like...

00:34:40Guest:There's somebody doing it.

00:34:43Guest:Yeah.

00:34:43Guest:You know?

00:34:43Guest:Yeah.

00:34:44Guest:Making money.

00:34:44Guest:Yeah.

00:34:45Guest:Like, like being in there.

00:34:47Guest:Yeah.

00:34:47Guest:And I was like, I can relate to that.

00:34:49Guest:And so that, that was, you know, shout out to John Cho, like really held it down amongst a lot of other, you know, great people.

00:34:56Guest:But for me, it was like seeing John Cho.

00:34:58Guest:I was like, oh shit, I could do that.

00:35:00Guest:Like, maybe I could do that.

00:35:01Marc:Now, when you were growing up, were you like how...

00:35:04Marc:Were you listening to Korean music?

00:35:06Marc:What were your parents doing at home?

00:35:08Guest:Dude, we were not listening to anything.

00:35:11Guest:It was a silent ass house, latchkey style.

00:35:14Guest:I didn't even have, like I was listening to in high school, like I get like a bare naked ladies album or like a beastie boys album and just like listen to it on repeat on my Iowa.

00:35:25Guest:You know what I mean?

00:35:26Guest:Like just like sometimes sitting in the back of my parents' door, just like laying on the ground, just like vegging out.

00:35:31Marc:On a cassette Walkman kind of thing?

00:35:33Guest:Walkman or like a CD.

00:35:37Guest:But I was really, you know, when I was younger.

00:35:40Guest:And they spoke Korean at home?

00:35:42Guest:Spoke Korean at home.

00:35:43Guest:Yeah, just like, you know, in the car, there was no music playing.

00:35:49Guest:We were just dead silent.

00:35:50Marc:And was there anyone kind of, your parents, were they funny or animated?

00:35:56Guest:Yeah, they're hilarious.

00:35:57Guest:My dad's really funny.

00:35:58Guest:Oh, good.

00:35:59Guest:Yeah, they weren't cold, like unavailable, maybe emotionally unavailable of that whole generation.

00:36:06Guest:Yeah.

00:36:06Guest:Yeah, but like that's a product of war, I feel like.

00:36:11Marc:Yeah.

00:36:11Marc:Yeah, you know what I mean?

00:36:12Marc:Like how so?

00:36:13Marc:Like which war are we talking about?

00:36:14Marc:Well, Korean War.

00:36:15Guest:Yeah, so the 50s.

00:36:16Guest:Yeah.

00:36:17Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:36:18Guest:Yeah, it's gnarly for them.

00:36:19Guest:Yeah.

00:36:20Guest:And so, you know, they just didn't have.

00:36:24Guest:They grew up in that.

00:36:25Guest:Yeah, they grew up in that.

00:36:26Guest:They grew up with even more emotionally unavailable parents.

00:36:30Marc:But it seems like for, you know, from the stories I've heard of people who have, you know, immigrant parents that, you know, it could have been a lot worse.

00:36:39Marc:In that, you know, it doesn't sound like they were strict or, you know, willing to, you know, cut you off.

00:36:45Guest:Oh, my parents were great.

00:36:46Guest:Comparatively.

00:36:47Guest:Like, I had my friends who were, like, locked into their path.

00:36:52Guest:They were like, you're going to do this.

00:36:53Guest:Did it work out for many of them?

00:36:55Guest:No, they're miserable.

00:36:56Guest:Yeah.

00:36:57Guest:I feel bad, truly.

00:36:58Guest:I know this one story that was lore in another Korean church in my area where this guy, his dad was so hellbent on him becoming a dentist that he went and got his dental degree, became a dentist, and then slapped the degree on his dad's desk and then left the family.

00:37:21Guest:And that was that?

00:37:22Marc:Yeah.

00:37:22Marc:That was a myth you heard.

00:37:24Guest:That was a myth, but I'm pretty sure it's true.

00:37:26Guest:Why wouldn't it be?

00:37:27Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:37:27Guest:He was just like, there you go.

00:37:29Guest:I gave the thing you wanted.

00:37:31Guest:Bye.

00:37:31Guest:And he just bounced.

00:37:32Guest:Wow.

00:37:33Guest:I was like, damn, that's kind of so sad, but like also incredible.

00:37:38Marc:Yeah.

00:37:39Marc:How do we make our own way in light of that kind of pressure?

00:37:43Marc:Because, like, in the show, in Beef, I mean, those are those kind of parents.

00:37:47Marc:Totally.

00:37:48Marc:The sort of, you know, passive-aggressive, diminishing, you know, with high expectations that you probably could never meet, you know?

00:37:57Marc:Never.

00:37:58Marc:That show is, it's quite an ending, and I don't, it's pretty relentless.

00:38:05LAUGHTER

00:38:05Guest:Thanks.

00:38:06Guest:I take that as a compliment.

00:38:07Guest:No, it is.

00:38:08Marc:I like the whole thing.

00:38:09Marc:I thought it was cast well and put together well.

00:38:14Marc:All the characters are great.

00:38:17Marc:Awesome.

00:38:19Marc:I just like when everyone's sort of shifting and changing.

00:38:22Marc:All characters are growing one way or the other.

00:38:26Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:27Marc:And the sort of menace of the hilarious cousin character.

00:38:32Marc:What's his name?

00:38:33Marc:Oh, Isaac.

00:38:34Marc:Yeah.

00:38:35Guest:Dave is so great in it.

00:38:37Guest:Yeah.

00:38:37Marc:Dave Cho is so great in it.

00:38:38Guest:Yeah.

00:38:39Marc:It's kind of a crazy character.

00:38:40Marc:Everyone's, it's kind of a crazy character.

00:38:42Guest:Yeah.

00:38:42Marc:Because, you know, there's a niceness to it, to him.

00:38:45Marc:Totally.

00:38:46Marc:But there's definitely a line.

00:38:48Yeah.

00:38:48Marc:Yeah, we had a lot of fun.

00:38:52Marc:How much of that was written up front?

00:38:54Marc:All of it.

00:38:55Marc:Okay.

00:38:55Marc:Yeah, that's all Sonny.

00:38:57Marc:So he had the whole series.

00:38:59Marc:When you guys started shooting, all ten were written?

00:39:02Guest:He was still eking out the last couple, but he had the whole roadmap.

00:39:08Guest:It was pretty incredible.

00:39:09Guest:Does he have a roadmap for the second season?

00:39:12Guest:We don't even know if we're going to do second season.

00:39:14Marc:That's crazy.

00:39:15Marc:And you end like that.

00:39:16Marc:So that's the fucked up thing about Netflix is that you got to kind of end in a way that maybe we'll do another one or this could be it.

00:39:23Guest:I don't know.

00:39:25Guest:I mean, we really did want to close the loop in season one in a real way.

00:39:29Guest:That was us consciously.

00:39:30Guest:That wasn't like a Netflix movie.

00:39:31Marc:Oh, because it's weird because, like, I felt it as a closed loop, but in my brain, for some reason, I just assumed, like, now we've got to wait a year, you know, for whatever the fuck's going to happen.

00:39:39Guest:That means you like the characters.

00:39:40Marc:Yeah.

00:39:40Marc:Oh, that's awesome.

00:39:41Marc:So, you know, so we've got to wait a year for whatever's going to happen with these fucking weirdos.

00:39:45Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:39:46Guest:I love it.

00:39:47Marc:But there is something, I guess, sweet about the ending.

00:39:50Guest:Yeah.

00:39:51Guest:Yeah.

00:39:51Guest:That, you know, that's the thing we talked about.

00:39:53Guest:Like, I mean, I don't, no spoilers, but like, um, you know.

00:39:59Marc:Yeah.

00:39:59Marc:They sent me a letter.

00:40:00Marc:I had to sign something.

00:40:01Guest:Oh shit.

00:40:02Marc:Like they're going to shoot me.

00:40:04Guest:But if you do it, it's not on me.

00:40:05Guest:I'm not spoiling nothing.

00:40:06Guest:All right.

00:40:06Guest:But just, just, you know, um, Spider-Man meme.

00:40:10Guest:That's the thing we talked about.

00:40:12Hmm.

00:40:12Guest:Just Spider-Man's pointing at each other, you know?

00:40:15Guest:What does that mean?

00:40:16Guest:Just, you know, we're all looking for someone to blame.

00:40:20Guest:Yeah.

00:40:21Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:22Guest:We're all looking for someone to blame.

00:40:24Marc:Yeah.

00:40:24Marc:And that's true.

00:40:26Marc:And the depth of the resentment is what defines your life.

00:40:31Guest:Yes.

00:40:32Guest:Yes.

00:40:32Guest:That type of envy, you know, that type of envy that like disguises itself as like I'm being wronged here when really maybe it's like I actually wish I was doing that that you have.

00:40:44Marc:Right.

00:40:44Marc:But but also where does that come from?

00:40:46Marc:And when you have parents that you can never live up to their expectations or make them happy or proud of you.

00:40:52Marc:I think there's that.

00:40:53Marc:I also think it's just like.

00:40:54Marc:capitalism yeah i know yeah like this is not even unique to our experience it's just all of us it never it never fucking ends yeah all of us all of us are living in constant comparison like this is not even ridiculous to any space yeah but that's an exploited thing i mean i get it it's one of the seven deadly sins and i understand that you know envy is something we you know humans have to reckon with yeah but but it is a choice after a certain point totally you know you have to judge yourself against others but then at some point you got to go like but i'm doing all right

00:41:22Guest:Yeah.

00:41:22Guest:I mean, what is it that I need?

00:41:23Guest:Well, always, I've always, you know, you hear this a lot, but like it's last boss is yourself.

00:41:29Marc:Yeah.

00:41:29Marc:I don't know if I've ever heard that.

00:41:31Marc:You never heard that?

00:41:32Marc:The last boss is yourself.

00:41:33Marc:Yeah.

00:41:34Marc:I like that.

00:41:34Marc:Where'd that come from?

00:41:35Guest:I don't know.

00:41:35Guest:I heard it somewhere.

00:41:37Marc:What is that other thing that like stood out to me in the show where you, where you say, where you talk about Western therapy?

00:41:43Guest:Oh, Eastern, Western therapy doesn't work on Eastern minds.

00:41:45Yeah.

00:41:45Guest:That might be true.

00:41:47Guest:I don't know if that's true, but that might be true.

00:41:50Guest:What's funny is I kind of have an Eastern mind, but I'm pretty sure I have a very Western mind.

00:41:56Guest:Yeah.

00:41:57Guest:So therapy works on me.

00:41:58Marc:Yeah.

00:41:59Guest:Therapy is very helpful for me.

00:42:00Guest:Yeah?

00:42:01Marc:Yeah.

00:42:01Marc:Well, I like the sentiment of the idea of that, but it's a stubbornness.

00:42:07Marc:Totally.

00:42:08Marc:It's a weird pride.

00:42:09Marc:Anybody who has issues is going to make excuses, and it goes back to that blaming thing again.

00:42:14Marc:100%.

00:42:15Guest:Yeah.

00:42:15Guest:It's not me.

00:42:16Marc:It's that me.

00:42:17Marc:Yeah.

00:42:17Marc:But all the characters grow and change.

00:42:21Marc:I mean, that is the thing.

00:42:23Marc:Yeah.

00:42:23Marc:You know, that scene where, you know, your brother jumps the wall.

00:42:26Guest:Yeah.

00:42:27Marc:It's crazy.

00:42:28Marc:Yeah.

00:42:28Marc:Because.

00:42:29Marc:Yeah.

00:42:32Marc:Oh, man.

00:42:33Marc:And Santino's such a dick.

00:42:34Marc:He's like a dick in real life and a dick as an actor.

00:42:37Marc:Yeah.

00:42:38Marc:And I say that with love.

00:42:39Marc:Yeah, love Santino.

00:42:42Marc:He's so great.

00:42:43Marc:He's very great at playing a dick.

00:42:45Guest:Oh, man.

00:42:46Guest:He is really such a sweet guy.

00:42:47Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:42:48Marc:He's a very nice guy.

00:42:49Marc:But so you finished college.

00:42:53Marc:Yeah.

00:42:54Marc:And you're going to be an actor with your psychology degree.

00:42:56Marc:Yeah.

00:42:57Guest:What was the other, do you minor in something or was it just like, uh, I, I minored in, in, uh, well, I tried to minor in neuro, in, uh, neuroscience and I got pretty far, but like they needed more credits than I was able to give.

00:43:10Marc:I don't even know what that entails.

00:43:11Guest:It was, it was for me just like trying to look smart.

00:43:15Guest:No, it wasn't.

00:43:15Marc:What does neuroscience cover?

00:43:18Marc:Like, what's a neuroscience problem?

00:43:19Guest:Just, like, it was all of it.

00:43:21Guest:Like, logic and reasoning.

00:43:25Guest:It would get down to, like, literal, like, brain functions.

00:43:29Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:43:30Guest:Like, all that stuff.

00:43:31Guest:I was just, you know.

00:43:33Guest:Yeah.

00:43:34Guest:I learned that college is for learning how to learn.

00:43:37Marc:Yeah.

00:43:38Marc:Yeah.

00:43:39Marc:And also just sort of like getting your bearings.

00:43:43Guest:Yeah.

00:43:43Guest:And like being around your new friends.

00:43:45Marc:Right.

00:43:46Marc:So when you were acting in college, what were you doing?

00:43:48Marc:I was doing improv with the group called Munkapult.

00:43:51Marc:Munkapult?

00:43:51Marc:Munkapult.

00:43:52Guest:At Kalamazoo?

00:43:52Guest:At Kalamazoo College.

00:43:54Guest:And that was an Asian improv group?

00:43:55Guest:No.

00:43:55Guest:Oh, regular.

00:43:56Guest:Yeah.

00:43:57Guest:I was like one of like six Asian.

00:43:59Marc:I guess regular is kind of the wrong way to say it.

00:44:00Guest:Just an improv group.

00:44:01Guest:Yeah.

00:44:02Guest:That's fucked up.

00:44:02Yeah.

00:44:03Guest:That's fucked up, Mark.

00:44:04Guest:I protest.

00:44:04Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:44:05Guest:You mean like just a normal bunch of people?

00:44:07Guest:Yeah, you mean like real people?

00:44:12Guest:Sorry.

00:44:12Guest:But like, yeah, it was the school's improv group.

00:44:16Guest:Our school was like 1,500 max.

00:44:17Guest:Oh, so everyone knew you.

00:44:18Guest:The whole college was very small.

00:44:20Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:20Guest:It was a very small school.

00:44:21Guest:And were you just doing improv games and writing sketches?

00:44:24Guest:We were doing improv, doing shows on like biweekly basis.

00:44:27Guest:And then I was doing some plays, taking some classes.

00:44:31Marc:You took some acting classes?

00:44:32Marc:Uh-huh.

00:44:32Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:44:33Marc:And it was resonating with you?

00:44:35Marc:It was like that was the thing?

00:44:37Guest:I think the whole idea of going and like experiencing another self, which is college.

00:44:47Marc:It's every couple years.

00:44:48Guest:Yeah, right.

00:44:49Guest:Every four years, you're like, oh, yeah, I can change this up.

00:44:52Marc:You might not even do it on purpose.

00:44:54Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:55Marc:You're just like, this one's not working out.

00:44:57Marc:100%.

00:44:58Marc:I'm going to wear this shirt for three months.

00:45:00Guest:Yeah, totally, totally.

00:45:02Guest:That, I think, was the thing I became maybe not aware of, but I was like, oh, this is interesting.

00:45:09Guest:You just keep changing.

00:45:11Guest:Right.

00:45:12Guest:And that was fascinating to me.

00:45:13Marc:And then the acting thing you could change on purpose and also sort of like, you know, I imagine that if you really submerge into it, you can kind of give yourself a break from yourself.

00:45:24Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:45:25Guest:Or the self that you told yourself.

00:45:26Guest:Right, exactly.

00:45:27Guest:The self that you tell yourself.

00:45:28Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:29Marc:So through that, did you find a stronger sense of yourself?

00:45:34Guest:In general?

00:45:35Guest:Yeah, I think through acting and continually through acting, I have learned that the way in which my brain tries to define me is sometimes, if not most of the time, not actually who I am.

00:45:51Guest:Yeah, man, I can't... I deal with that shit all the time.

00:45:55Guest:Yeah, I mean, you're talking... I'm not...

00:45:57Marc:good at it no but some people don't deal with this shit at all and we're walking around going i don't know man they're fucking liars man well they don't deal with it in the same way it's not conscious they may be unhappy or they may know that they're not i see what you're saying doing what they want to do yeah yeah but they you know they'll make you know they'll justify it or or just sort of suck it up yeah yeah but when you're a creative person you can like just like fucking you know think about it all day long oh it's the worst okay

00:46:22Guest:It's the worst.

00:46:24Marc:Am I being really me?

00:46:25Marc:I don't know if I'm really me.

00:46:26Guest:You're like watching yourself watch yourself is the worst thing.

00:46:29Marc:This is ridiculous, dude.

00:46:30Marc:I think there's just... I think, but I've grown to believe that, you know, there are layers to everybody and it really becomes a matter of trust and boundaries.

00:46:41Marc:100%.

00:46:41Marc:And, you know, if you decide...

00:46:44Marc:You do have to make decisions depending on what kind of person you are, how distable you are, whether or not you're going to let other people in.

00:46:50Marc:And then, you know, then you really have to kind of, you know, kind of vet those people pretty well after certain experiences.

00:46:56Marc:Like, no more crazy people.

00:46:58Marc:I don't want any more crazy people in me.

00:47:00Marc:So, you know, it becomes...

00:47:02Marc:Yourself is pretty expansive, is what I'm saying.

00:47:06Guest:Absolutely.

00:47:06Guest:If not, like, limitless, maybe.

00:47:09Marc:I don't know.

00:47:10Marc:Wow.

00:47:10Marc:Perhaps.

00:47:11Marc:Well, I mean, you definitely explored all these ideas in the last episode.

00:47:15Marc:Yeah.

00:47:17Marc:We went there.

00:47:18Marc:You definitely did.

00:47:19Marc:We went there, yeah.

00:47:20Marc:That was crazy.

00:47:22Marc:Crazy.

00:47:23Guest:So where do you go after college?

00:47:25Guest:Chicago, right?

00:47:26Guest:I go to Chicago.

00:47:27Guest:I cut my teeth at Second City.

00:47:29Guest:You do?

00:47:30Guest:And I.O., yeah.

00:47:31Guest:So you're pretty funny?

00:47:34Marc:I'm all right.

00:47:36Yeah.

00:47:36Marc:Cause I mean, generally you're pretty serious.

00:47:38Marc:I see, I know you have comic timing, but like, but a lot of the roles that I've seen, they're pretty, you know, they're not, I wouldn't say they're comedic roles.

00:47:46Guest:No, they were not.

00:47:47Guest:I was never the guy in an improv group that was like the witty one or like the really funny one that just like hit bangers like every two seconds.

00:47:56Marc:Who are you working with, though?

00:47:57Marc:Anybody we know in your crew at Second City?

00:47:59Guest:Oh, man, you know, the first class I ever took was with Lamorne Morris.

00:48:03Guest:Yeah.

00:48:03Guest:And he was great.

00:48:04Guest:He was already off to the races.

00:48:05Guest:He was like, I'm moving to L.A.

00:48:06Guest:I was like, see you later.

00:48:07Guest:I was like, I just got here.

00:48:09Guest:But like, you know, I played a lot with, I got to do touring company.

00:48:13Guest:You did?

00:48:13Guest:Yeah.

00:48:14Guest:So you did the whole thing?

00:48:15Guest:I did the whole thing, yeah.

00:48:16Guest:And like, you know, around that time was like- For I.O.?

00:48:19Guest:For Second City.

00:48:19Guest:Second City.

00:48:19Guest:Okay.

00:48:20Guest:Around that time was like Vanessa Bayer.

00:48:22Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:48:22Guest:Tim Baltz.

00:48:23Guest:Yeah.

00:48:24Guest:Tim Robinson, Sam Richardson, Seth Wiper.

00:48:27Guest:Tim Robinson.

00:48:28Marc:God damn it.

00:48:28Marc:That guy.

00:48:29Marc:So fucking funny.

00:48:30Marc:He is, man.

00:48:31Marc:Yeah, he's great.

00:48:31Marc:Won't come on the show.

00:48:32Marc:Can't get him on.

00:48:33Marc:I've talked to everybody he knows.

00:48:34Marc:Yeah?

00:48:35Marc:Won't come on.

00:48:35Marc:I've talked to him.

00:48:36Marc:That's the realest deal right there.

00:48:38Guest:That guy?

00:48:39Guest:Tim Robinson.

00:48:39Guest:Love that guy.

00:48:40Yeah.

00:48:40Guest:so funny yeah he was on a road he was on touring crew he was i think he might have jumped pretty quickly to main stage yeah um so the touring thing is something you do before main stage yeah i went on a boat i was on a boat i think i talked to someone else who went on a boat i've talked to many people who've done different versions of these things yeah i think it could be a really good life if you're into it i think for me i it just was not for me

00:49:04Marc:You were on a Second City show on a cruise?

00:49:07Marc:Yeah, for two months.

00:49:09Guest:Two months?

00:49:09Guest:Yeah.

00:49:09Guest:Same people?

00:49:10Guest:Same people.

00:49:11Guest:On the boat?

00:49:13Guest:Different boats?

00:49:14Guest:Different people every week, but same crew.

00:49:16Guest:Yeah.

00:49:17Guest:Oh, my God.

00:49:18Guest:Yeah.

00:49:19Guest:It was grating for me at a point where I was like, oh, I want to try to switch up the jokes, but I can't because it's a whole new batch of people that will...

00:49:29Guest:And you're just kind of running out of stuff.

00:49:31Guest:So you're not really improvising is what you're saying.

00:49:33Guest:It turned into that a little bit.

00:49:34Guest:Like the suggestions became literally like, because you're hitting the same course.

00:49:41Guest:Like you're doing like the Eastern Seaboard.

00:49:44Guest:Like the kind of like the older run of like older people.

00:49:46Guest:Yeah.

00:49:47Guest:And you're just going to get the same jokes.

00:49:50Guest:So why not?

00:49:51Marc:Why not just get through it?

00:49:53Guest:Yeah.

00:49:53Guest:Why not just do it?

00:49:54Guest:You're on vacation, essentially.

00:49:56Guest:You're on a cruise ship.

00:49:57Marc:No one's going to judge you for not doing the real thing.

00:50:00Guest:And you're slaying.

00:50:01Guest:You're crushing.

00:50:05Marc:No one has to know.

00:50:06Guest:No one knows.

00:50:07Guest:Just the five of us know.

00:50:09Marc:We'll keep the secret.

00:50:10Marc:We repeated ourselves over and over again.

00:50:14Guest:Truly, truly.

00:50:17Marc:So you get off the boat.

00:50:18Marc:When do you start realizing you're going to go serious?

00:50:20Marc:How does that happen?

00:50:21Marc:Do you take any acting classes during this time?

00:50:25Marc:No, I did not.

00:50:27Marc:Did you branch away from or get away from Second City and do other stage work?

00:50:32Guest:I understudied at Steppenwolf for a run.

00:50:34Guest:Really?

00:50:35Guest:Yeah, for this play Kafka on the Shore, which is a Murakami play that went up.

00:50:42Yeah.

00:50:42Guest:those Stefan folks mean business yeah it was really cool to like be in that yeah watching Fran Guinan that guy was incredible yeah I don't know that guy great yeah he's one of the company members he's just so awesome to watch I know Tracy Letts yeah and uh so Michael Shannon those guys all those guys yeah

00:51:01Marc:I don't know them personally.

00:51:02Marc:I've talked to them, but those are that generation.

00:51:05Marc:Then there's the older generation of Steppenwolf people.

00:51:07Marc:Yeah.

00:51:08Guest:Yeah, they're intense, man.

00:51:09Guest:Incredible, incredible.

00:51:10Guest:Laurie Metcalf.

00:51:11Guest:Yeah.

00:51:11Guest:Oh, my God.

00:51:12Guest:Laurie Metcalf.

00:51:13Guest:So good.

00:51:14Guest:Yeah.

00:51:15Guest:So good.

00:51:15Marc:So you understudied, but did you get on or you didn't?

00:51:18Guest:Never got on.

00:51:20Guest:Found out I hate understudying.

00:51:23Guest:But shout outs to anyone that does.

00:51:26Guest:God bless you.

00:51:27Marc:Just kind of waiting for someone to drop.

00:51:29Guest:Yeah, and also just like the fear of it, the anxiety of it, and then also like the quiet envy of it, of being like, I'm putting work on a daily basis, being on top of this with rehearsals, and I might never be seen.

00:51:43Marc:I guess it's just a dues-paying thing, huh?

00:51:45Guest:Yeah, it's tough.

00:51:46Guest:It's tough.

00:51:47Guest:It's really tough.

00:51:49Guest:But, you know, I'm sure there's some merits, like some really good things to come out of it.

00:51:53Guest:Sure.

00:51:53Marc:I mean, it preps your brain.

00:51:55Marc:Totally.

00:51:56Marc:Yeah, and you've kind of set yourself up.

00:51:59Marc:I imagine taking that gig, it's...

00:52:02Marc:You know, you sort of have to... You want to get on stage, but you kind of... You don't know what the circumstances are going to be.

00:52:07Guest:You also don't... Yeah, exactly.

00:52:08Guest:You also don't want to go on stage.

00:52:10Marc:Like, you know, like the star, you know, has an accident.

00:52:13Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:13Marc:And now they got... Who's this guy?

00:52:15Guest:Yeah, 100%.

00:52:16Guest:Like, it's like stacked against you.

00:52:17Guest:Yeah.

00:52:18Guest:And so I was like, oh, man.

00:52:19Guest:But all these things were good.

00:52:21Guest:Yeah.

00:52:22Guest:But I think for me, my dramatic stuff came when I came over to L.A.

00:52:26Guest:and...

00:52:27Guest:The choice, you know, I auditioned for this pilot ABC sitcom that was going to go.

00:52:34Guest:Yeah.

00:52:35Guest:And I got to, like, the last audition.

00:52:37Guest:It was between me and this other guy, and I didn't get it.

00:52:41Guest:And I was, like, super bummed.

00:52:42Guest:And then I got Walking Dead, like, two months later.

00:52:45Guest:So it's not that I, like, chose dramatic roles.

00:52:48Guest:I actually went for sitcoms, but the dramatic role found me.

00:52:52Guest:And I was like, oh, this is actually, like...

00:52:54Guest:freer for me because I think comedy especially around that time was like very rigid for someone like me yeah I could play whoever I wanted on stage I could do a Steve Carell bit or like a you know like a Colbert role yeah like

00:53:11Guest:at Second City on like a Monday home show.

00:53:15Guest:But if you're coming out in TV, like for Asian dudes, it was like, you want to be a plucky assistant or like a self-aware plucky assistant.

00:53:24Marc:And also it's very, it's limiting in general and there's not that much good comedy.

00:53:29Guest:Yeah, yeah, 100%.

00:53:31Marc:Like, you know, you're, yeah, the roles are broad a lot of times, and they're hard to make your own.

00:53:37Marc:And, you know, a lot of times the shows are terrible or repetitive at best.

00:53:42Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:53:43Guest:They're just echoing a reality that we can see told from a point of view that is standardized.

00:53:49Guest:Yeah.

00:53:50Guest:And so for me, I was like, at least the luckiest thing I feel in the end is that I got to be a part of Walking Dead because... That was huge.

00:53:58Marc:And you got huge.

00:53:59Marc:And that was not... It was just a person role.

00:54:02Marc:It was not an ethnic role.

00:54:03Marc:Yeah.

00:54:04Guest:Especially because that was a role that was about a world after society had broken down.

00:54:12Guest:Right.

00:54:13Guest:Whereas perhaps if society was still alive, I don't know if I would have been able to stretch my...

00:54:19Guest:self that far that that show allowed me to.

00:54:22Marc:Right.

00:54:23Marc:Because you would add cultural expectations.

00:54:25Marc:Yeah.

00:54:26Marc:But now you're just... I'm just like, I can be whatever the fuck I want.

00:54:28Marc:Yeah, because I'm not a zombie.

00:54:30Guest:That's the only context.

00:54:31Guest:Exactly.

00:54:31Guest:I'm not a zombie.

00:54:34Marc:100%.

00:54:34Marc:That's the basis.

00:54:35Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:36Marc:The core of the character is I'm not a zombie.

00:54:39I'm not a zombie.

00:54:39Guest:Yeah, it was college all over again.

00:54:42Guest:Yeah.

00:54:43Marc:But that's freeing to not be a zombie.

00:54:44Guest:Are you kidding me?

00:54:45Guest:The luckiest gig of all time.

00:54:46Marc:Because it's arguable that, you know, in terms of these standardized roles and stereotyping and, you know, perspective that there's a lot of zombies around.

00:54:57Guest:Oof.

00:54:59Guest:There you go.

00:55:01Guest:Perhaps.

00:55:03Guest:That's a deep one.

00:55:04Guest:But how did that shift your life?

00:55:07Guest:I mean, could you handle it?

00:55:09Guest:I bugged out for a little bit.

00:55:11Guest:I had a lot of like...

00:55:12Guest:acid reflux.

00:55:14Marc:Like, what does that mean when you... Just because the... Because it's pretty overwhelming.

00:55:18Marc:It's your second gig.

00:55:19Marc:Yeah.

00:55:20Marc:And then you become sort of this star of the thing and you're on it forever.

00:55:24Guest:Well, yeah, I was... I guess you could argue that.

00:55:27Guest:I was... I was... During the course of it, I was kind of like...

00:55:33Guest:Not in the back, but in the middle.

00:55:34Marc:Yeah.

00:55:36Guest:There were people kind of in the front that were like objectively like the stars of our show.

00:55:41Marc:Sure.

00:55:41Guest:And I was in that group.

00:55:42Guest:Yeah.

00:55:43Guest:I wouldn't say I wasn't, but I think largely there wasn't a space for me to be caught in the industry.

00:55:50Guest:There wasn't like, oh, we know what to do with someone like you.

00:55:54Guest:Yeah.

00:55:55Guest:Is that good or bad?

00:55:56Guest:Good in the end.

00:55:57Guest:Yeah.

00:55:58Guest:Maybe maybe it felt frustrating at the time, but I've been only serviced by that.

00:56:02Marc:Yeah.

00:56:03Marc:And I guess I assume not unlike your experience with with Asians that gave you hope for moving forward in the business that you must have gotten that kind of feedback.

00:56:15Guest:i didn't get to really talk to much people no but i mean in general now like there must be people uh who who saw your success yeah yeah and was like okay i hope so you know i can do this yeah i don't i mean like i don't know if i explicitly heard that consistently or actively but more like but like i hope i did yeah for people like that sounds dope if i did

00:56:40Marc:How did that end?

00:56:41Marc:Did you want out, or was it just time?

00:56:44Marc:Yeah, it was written in.

00:56:45Marc:Oh, it was?

00:56:46Guest:Yeah.

00:56:47Marc:You didn't know?

00:56:47Marc:They told you at the beginning of the season?

00:56:50Guest:No, the comic book came out.

00:56:51Guest:Issue 100 came out, and Glenn died.

00:56:54Marc:Oh, no, you've got to honor the comic book.

00:56:56Guest:Yeah.

00:56:56Marc:So you've got to call that guy.

00:56:57Marc:What's his name, Robert?

00:56:58Marc:Robert Kirkman.

00:56:59Guest:What's up, man?

00:57:00Guest:I actually wrote this, like, really, like, you know, I wrote a funny but, like, very angry email in his letter hack section on his next issue.

00:57:10Guest:Yeah.

00:57:11Guest:Which he knew I was doing.

00:57:12Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:57:13Guest:But it was fun.

00:57:13Marc:I was just like... Yeah, he's a good guy.

00:57:14Marc:He's a fan of the show.

00:57:15Marc:He's done some artwork for me.

00:57:16Guest:Yeah, he's great.

00:57:17Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:57:18Marc:I don't think I've ever met him in person, but he was a fan of the show.

00:57:22Marc:and uh yeah he yeah he's a good human he's a kind human yeah it seems like it i think i did meet him on maybe one of the talking i can't where did it doesn't matter yeah i mean i i couldn't watch the whole thing yeah you know it's a lot it's not really my bag but at the time it came out i was dating a woman who was full zombie freak so oh she would watch it yeah so i kind of was able to watch it interesting it seemed pretty good yeah

00:57:49Marc:When Bernthal was on there.

00:57:50Guest:Bernthal was great.

00:57:52Guest:Our whole cast was incredible.

00:57:55Guest:Like that first season cast into the late season cast.

00:57:58Guest:Everybody that kind of came onto the show, like really great people.

00:58:03Marc:So when did the movie roles start coming?

00:58:05Yeah.

00:58:05Guest:I just, you know, if I have anything, I have just, like, the greatest luck.

00:58:13Guest:I'm prepared, but, like, I have such great luck.

00:58:16Guest:I got to work with director Bong, Bong Joon-ho.

00:58:19Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:58:20Guest:And he just kind of had this role for me.

00:58:24Guest:Yeah.

00:58:24Guest:And he fought for me to be there.

00:58:27Guest:Yeah.

00:58:27Guest:And I was so thankful for that.

00:58:29Guest:And then I got to work with Boots.

00:58:30Guest:That was the Okja movie?

00:58:31Guest:Okja.

00:58:32Guest:I had to work with Boots Riley.

00:58:34Guest:And he had this role for me.

00:58:35Marc:I saw that movie.

00:58:36Marc:He's a wild dude.

00:58:37Marc:That was a good role.

00:58:38Marc:Yeah, that was a wild movie.

00:58:39Guest:It was.

00:58:40Guest:I was very lucky in that, like...

00:58:43Guest:I don't know what I did or how it happened, but there were directors that were, like, looking to work with me.

00:58:51Guest:Yeah.

00:58:51Guest:And I was very thankful for that.

00:58:53Marc:Yep.

00:58:54Marc:That's a weird-ass movie.

00:58:55Marc:Which one?

00:58:56Guest:Sorry to Bother You.

00:58:57Guest:Which one?

00:58:57Guest:All of them?

00:58:58Marc:Sorry to Bother You.

00:58:59Guest:Sorry to Bother You is out there, but it's also, like— It's got a lot to say.

00:59:04Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:05Marc:And then when you get to the horse people, you're like, what the fuck is happening?

00:59:08Yeah.

00:59:10Guest:I'm getting to detect a pattern for you, which is like, I'm in, but what the fuck is happening?

00:59:14Guest:I don't mind it.

00:59:15Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:16Marc:Sometimes I need, my brain seeks explanation, and sometimes you just gotta take it for what it is, man.

00:59:22Marc:Yeah, dude, it's just, it's horses.

00:59:24Marc:Yeah, what are you gonna do?

00:59:26Marc:And then like, I mean, you've done a lot of stuff.

00:59:29Guest:What were the two, what were the Korean movies you did?

00:59:31Guest:I did, I only did one fully Korean movie, which was called Burning with director Lee Chang-dong.

00:59:38Guest:And how was that experience?

00:59:40Guest:Incredible.

00:59:41Guest:Maybe like one of the best film experiences of my life.

00:59:44Marc:And how was it, like, different than, like, you know, I mean, was it kind of exciting to, did you speak Korean, all Korean?

00:59:51Guest:Yeah, I spoke Korean the whole time.

00:59:53Marc:That must be wild.

00:59:54Guest:Yeah.

00:59:55Guest:It was awesome.

00:59:56Guest:To go back.

00:59:58Guest:It was a re-downloading.

01:00:02Guest:It was a, maybe a dusting off of a whole side of myself that I hadn't been able to access or was never asked to access here.

01:00:12Wow.

01:00:12Marc:Wow.

01:00:13Marc:So that must have helped with the integration of self.

01:00:17Marc:Yes.

01:00:18Marc:A million percent.

01:00:19Guest:Yeah.

01:00:19Guest:I came back very different after that experience.

01:00:21Guest:Yeah?

01:00:22Guest:Yeah.

01:00:22Guest:I came back a little deeper than I had remembered myself being.

01:00:28Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:00:30Guest:I think I came back a little bit more aware of myself.

01:00:35Guest:And, you know, in Korean, the word for confidence is 자신감.

01:00:43Guest:Uh-huh.

01:00:45Guest:And I remember asking my friend, I was like, what does confidence mean in Korean?

01:00:49Guest:And he was like, 자싱감.

01:00:50Guest:And I was like, no, no, no, what is the word, the etymology of the word?

01:00:54Guest:And apparently they don't really do that in Korea.

01:00:56Guest:Like if you want to get to the etymology, you go to like the Chinese character that it's rooted in.

01:01:03Guest:But when you look at 자싱감, 자싱 means self, and 감 means sense.

01:01:09Guest:And I was like, there you go.

01:01:11Guest:like shit yeah there you go and i was kind of like feeling that you know i was like oh i'm becoming integrated with myself like i'm beginning to understand and then you get the and then you shoot minari which completely requires that of you 100 i could never have shot that film i could never have approached that role if i hadn't done burning done burning yeah wild wild how shit works out oh you want to know even more wild what

01:01:37Guest:Burning is based off of a Haruki Murakami short story called Barn Burning, which is kind of based off of a William Faulkner short story called Barn Burning.

01:01:51Guest:And the William Faulkner short story, Barn Burning, is about...

01:01:55Guest:a father who drags his family through his pride.

01:02:00Guest:He's a farmhand that sets fire to his owner's farm barn because he felt jilted.

01:02:07Guest:And his son rats him out to the police because he's just like, I'm so tired of you and your pride dragging our family through all these terrible things.

01:02:17Guest:And that's kind of what, for me, my role in Minari was about, of just, like, a father just trying to make it, but, like, being, like, unable to face himself.

01:02:25Marc:Yeah.

01:02:26Guest:And I was like, what the fuck is happening?

01:02:29Marc:It's all looping together.

01:02:30Marc:Yeah.

01:02:31Guest:That seems to—honestly, for me, that's, like, a kind of— How do you pronounce it?

01:02:35Guest:Minari?

01:02:35Marc:Minari.

01:02:36Marc:Yeah.

01:02:37Marc:And while—yeah, I mean, so—

01:02:40Marc:So there's sort of a, you're on a kind of serendipitous mystical trajectory.

01:02:49Guest:I don't try to, I mean, I'll bother my wife about it.

01:02:53Guest:Be like, isn't this weird?

01:02:55Guest:And I said it now, but I try not to question it too much.

01:02:57Guest:I feel like it's going to go away.

01:02:58Marc:Yeah.

01:02:59Marc:Well, I mean, you know, you've got a role going.

01:03:04Marc:And you got nominated for an Oscar at the Weird Oscars.

01:03:07Marc:Yeah, those were cool.

01:03:09Marc:Those Oscars were crazy.

01:03:10Marc:It was wild, man.

01:03:12Marc:I remember interpreting it, you know, talking to my producer about it, that it did have a vibe of sort of an industry-centric, you know, award ceremony.

01:03:23Marc:Yeah.

01:03:24Marc:As opposed to a spectacle.

01:03:25Marc:Yeah.

01:03:26Marc:It was sort of like, well, this is the, you know, this is for us.

01:03:28Marc:It was so chill.

01:03:29Marc:Yeah.

01:03:30Marc:Yeah.

01:03:30Marc:It was so relaxed and like.

01:03:34Marc:It was a little weird on camera, the way people were sitting so far away from each other.

01:03:38Marc:But aside from that, I kind of liked the vibe.

01:03:40Marc:Yeah.

01:03:40Marc:It looked like, like, oh, there's like 12 people there.

01:03:42Guest:Yeah.

01:03:42Guest:We're just like, hey, we're just hanging out, right?

01:03:44Guest:Like, it's cool.

01:03:45Guest:Like, there's no, we're just chilling.

01:03:47Guest:No spectacle.

01:03:48Guest:No spectacle.

01:03:50Guest:Was that disappointing?

01:03:51Guest:Yeah.

01:03:51Guest:No, I feel so thankful for that, personally.

01:03:55Marc:And how did it feel to be the first Asian to ever be nominated?

01:03:58Marc:I have to assume when that happens for any person from any group, there's a fairly deep anger in the realization of it on some level.

01:04:09Guest:I think that's the conflicting aspect of it, right?

01:04:12Guest:It's just like, it's asking by all angles to be celebrated, but you're kind of like, why is this even happening?

01:04:19Guest:And so I kind of, you know, like, I don't know if I piss people off, but like, I really try not to put too much attention on that.

01:04:27Guest:Not as even a self-preserving reaction to it, but more just like, this is not the goal, y'all.

01:04:40Guest:This is just like...

01:04:42Guest:a byproduct of what is wrong yeah we're just expanding here yeah like we're not i'm not trying to nobody none of us should die on this hill yeah yeah like this is not a hill to die on right this is just a hole that got dug yeah and someone fell in yeah and they might not be able to get out and i refuse to jump into that hole yeah huh but it was uh but but even since then i really like i don't know maybe i

01:05:07Marc:I no longer know if I'm completely looped in to the culture.

01:05:14Marc:But as I talk to people and as I see things, like we said before, it does feel like there is something flattening the playing field happening.

01:05:24Marc:Like that what we're talking about is happening.

01:05:28Marc:That people are just people.

01:05:30Guest:I hope so.

01:05:31Guest:I mean, like, you know, we can revert very quickly.

01:05:34Marc:Well, I mean, but there's a whole side of the country that refuses to see that.

01:05:38Marc:And I've talked about it on stage a little bit in terms of like, we're doing a good job at being inclusive in fictional modes.

01:05:45Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:46Guest:So, you know, how that plays out.

01:05:49Guest:I think, yeah, and it depends on execution, right?

01:05:51Guest:Like, nobody likes to be talked down to.

01:05:53Guest:Yeah.

01:05:53Guest:You know what I mean?

01:05:54Guest:I think that's some of the issues sometimes of, like, how the point gets missed.

01:05:59Marc:Oh, you mean in terms of how the other, the angry people react?

01:06:03Guest:Yeah.

01:06:04Marc:But aren't they going to feel like they're always being condescended to just by the existence of others?

01:06:09Guest:That's perhaps true.

01:06:10Guest:But I think, like, there's this thing of, like, there's a vibe.

01:06:14Guest:Yeah.

01:06:14Guest:You know what I mean?

01:06:14Guest:Like, you can detect vibe.

01:06:16Guest:People are aware of feeling.

01:06:17Guest:Like, there's this great Ursula K. Legeen quote that, you know, Sonny and I talked about a lot when we were talking about beef, which is like, to oppose something is to maintain it.

01:06:27Guest:And I think about that a lot.

01:06:29Guest:Huh.

01:06:30Guest:You know?

01:06:30Guest:Yeah.

01:06:30Guest:I don't know how true or how impossible situations can be around that to make that a very difficult phrase to process.

01:06:39Guest:But like I can understand that.

01:06:42Guest:And that's kind of what beef is touching too is like you push and like

01:06:47Guest:And you're made alive by that push.

01:06:49Guest:And the other person is made alive by that push.

01:06:52Guest:And then they push back.

01:06:54Guest:And somehow you're just like both making this thing together that maybe you're not intending to.

01:06:59Marc:Or you are intending to.

01:07:00Marc:Chaos that affects the lives of everyone.

01:07:03Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:07:05Marc:It could go either way.

01:07:07Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:08Marc:What about the humans?

01:07:10Marc:I didn't see it, but I saw the show, the play.

01:07:13Marc:Oh, cool.

01:07:14Marc:How did you go about it?

01:07:15Marc:Because Stephen Karam, the guy who wrote it, directed the movie too, right?

01:07:19Guest:Yeah, he did such a good job.

01:07:21Guest:Did you do the play?

01:07:22Guest:I did not do the play.

01:07:23Marc:Interesting.

01:07:24Guest:Yeah, the play was actually, the role was for an Arab actor.

01:07:29Guest:Yeah.

01:07:30Guest:But then, like, what's cool about this...

01:07:32Guest:that play that he wrote is that like it kind of keeps growing like you can kind of like reflect other reality like other moments in reality off of it yeah and i think um steven decided to cast me in this particular role which i was like that's interesting i gotta watch it yeah please i'm curious about it and so now beef is it you working on a movie

01:07:57Marc:You got stuff coming out?

01:07:59Marc:Am I?

01:07:59Marc:It looks like you got a lot of stuff coming out.

01:08:01Guest:I'm blessed right now.

01:08:04Guest:Yeah.

01:08:04Guest:I'm working.

01:08:05Guest:Yeah.

01:08:05Guest:I'm trying to take as much of a break as I can.

01:08:07Guest:I got two little kiddos.

01:08:08Marc:Oh, good.

01:08:09Guest:So.

01:08:10Marc:Yeah.

01:08:10Marc:Well, I, you know, in terms of beef, which we didn't, you know, we talked about in an engaging and vague way.

01:08:17Guest:The perfect way.

01:08:18Marc:Yeah.

01:08:19Marc:Yeah.

01:08:19Marc:I mean, I couldn't stop watching it.

01:08:21Marc:So, like, you know, I didn't have to watch all of them.

01:08:24Marc:I appreciate it.

01:08:25Marc:But I did because, well, I find that, you know, there is an element of, you know, what we were talking about before in that when you create a reality that characters who are culturally different are comfortable in, you know, I you know, I get to be included in that in a way that doesn't feel.

01:08:47Marc:Like we were talking about before, there was nothing broad about it.

01:08:57Marc:But it was not my life.

01:09:00Marc:And so I was completely compelled by that aspect.

01:09:03Marc:And then the characters just kind of take it away after that, once that gets weighed in.

01:09:07Marc:But it did feel like being part of something unique.

01:09:13Guest:Yeah.

01:09:13Marc:To me, anyway.

01:09:14Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:09:15Guest:I think we all felt that.

01:09:17Guest:I think while we were there, we were like, man, I can't believe we're getting to make this.

01:09:21Marc:Yeah.

01:09:22Marc:It's the same with, in a way, I was honored to be part of an episode of Reservation Dogs last season.

01:09:30Marc:Yeah.

01:09:30Marc:Where it's just sort of like... Oh, yeah.

01:09:33Marc:That show is great.

01:09:34Guest:Yeah, because it's a whole culture that no one knows anything about in the mainstream.

01:09:40Guest:And they're not gatekeeping it.

01:09:42Guest:They're just like, you're all allowed in.

01:09:44Guest:You can all watch.

01:09:44Marc:And it's kind of messy.

01:09:46Marc:And there's a whole different sense of humor.

01:09:49Marc:There's a whole different spirituality.

01:09:50Marc:There's a whole different way of life that we're just going to present as is and enjoy if you want.

01:09:57Marc:Yep, yep, yep.

01:09:59Marc:So a lot of that's happening.

01:10:01Guest:It's the kindest way to operate.

01:10:03Guest:It's great.

01:10:03Guest:Yeah.

01:10:04Marc:It was a great set to be on.

01:10:05Marc:But anyways, I hope it does, you know, good.

01:10:08Marc:Thanks.

01:10:09Marc:But are they open to doing another season or you guys really see this as it?

01:10:14Guest:I mean, what's his name?

01:10:16Guest:Sonny?

01:10:16Guest:Yeah.

01:10:17Guest:We're all open.

01:10:18Guest:That'd be cool.

01:10:18Guest:But we'll see.

01:10:19Guest:I don't know.

01:10:20Guest:But he's thinking about it.

01:10:21Guest:I would be lying if I said he probably hasn't thought about it.

01:10:27Guest:Right, right, right.

01:10:27Guest:None of us have really talked about that happening yet.

01:10:31Marc:Okay.

01:10:32Marc:Good talking to you, man.

01:10:33Marc:Thank you.

01:10:33Marc:Yeah, appreciate it.

01:10:39Marc:All right.

01:10:40Marc:All episodes of Beef are streaming on Netflix.

01:10:42Marc:That was an interesting talk about a lot of stuff.

01:10:44Marc:I enjoyed it.

01:10:45Marc:Hang out for a minute, people.

01:10:49Marc:Folks, if you want to dip into the archives and hear my talk with Ali Wong, that's a really great conversation.

01:10:55Marc:It's episode 704, and it remains the only episode where lactation occurred during the interview.

01:11:02Guest:See, this is leaning in.

01:11:03Guest:Breastfeeding in an interview with Marc Maron.

01:11:06Guest:Jesus.

01:11:06Marc:But do you have an electric thing or is it all, is this just like a pump?

01:11:09Guest:There's an electric thing and I have a hand pump for when I'm in the car and I'm driving and I just got a release too.

01:11:15Marc:Yeah.

01:11:16Marc:Pump and drive, can't you pull over?

01:11:18Marc:They actually make it for driving or you just use it that way?

01:11:21Guest:Well, I got to go some places sometimes and I can't be late, you know?

01:11:24Guest:So it's like I got to just do this.

01:11:27Guest:Yeah.

01:11:28Guest:Do you want me to walk you through this?

01:11:29Guest:Sure.

01:11:30Guest:Yeah, you don't have to try to talk about something else.

01:11:32Guest:Okay.

01:11:33Guest:You can walk you through this.

01:11:35Guest:So I have to wear this bra.

01:11:38Guest:Right.

01:11:38Guest:See, that has holes in it.

01:11:40Guest:Yeah.

01:11:40Guest:For these little funnel cups to go through.

01:11:42Marc:Okay, yeah.

01:11:43Guest:And so.

01:11:48Marc:My mom didn't breastfeed.

01:11:49Marc:It was not fashionable.

01:11:50Guest:My mom didn't either.

01:11:51Guest:Yeah, it was like.

01:11:52Guest:Yeah.

01:11:53Guest:Okay, then I have to take this off here.

01:11:57Guest:Yeah.

01:12:01Guest:Take the regular bra.

01:12:02Guest:Take the regular bra.

01:12:03Guest:But that's a nursing bra because it's like pull, pull.

01:12:05Guest:So then I can just have easy access to the baby.

01:12:07Guest:Oh, I get it.

01:12:08Guest:I get it.

01:12:08Marc:So you switch them out.

01:12:09Guest:Switch them out.

01:12:10Guest:I have to wear these pads in here.

01:12:11Marc:So you don't leak?

01:12:12Guest:So that I don't leak all over in public.

01:12:15Guest:Then I have to put on this bra.

01:12:17Guest:This is what women have to do at work.

01:12:20Guest:Yeah.

01:12:21Guest:When they go back to work.

01:12:23Guest:Yeah.

01:12:23Guest:Up to sometimes like two years.

01:12:25Guest:Really?

01:12:26Guest:Yeah.

01:12:26Guest:Just every three hours.

01:12:29Guest:And then a lot of women freak out about their milk production going down.

01:12:33Guest:So you'll see, oh, you can't see it up close, but when it starts coming out.

01:12:36Guest:I could stand up.

01:12:37Guest:Yeah, but when you'll see, it's like when it comes out of my nipples, it's quite exciting.

01:12:42Guest:It's like the Bellagio fountain.

01:12:45Guest:Just different streams of liquid jumping up and over each other.

01:12:50Guest:Yeah.

01:12:50Guest:See?

01:12:53Guest:Can you hear it?

01:12:54Guest:Yeah, you can hear it.

01:12:55Guest:Oh, well, sorry, WTF listeners.

01:13:00Guest:Yeah, how long do you pump for?

01:13:02Guest:10 to 15 minutes.

01:13:04Guest:Okay.

01:13:05Guest:Yeah.

01:13:05Guest:That's exciting.

01:13:06Guest:Yeah.

01:13:08Guest:When's it going to happen?

01:13:09Guest:It's happening.

01:13:11Guest:It's coming down.

01:13:11Guest:I think you just can't see it right now.

01:13:13Guest:Wait, hold on.

01:13:15Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:13:16Yeah.

01:13:17Guest:Does it, like, does it pick up speed?

01:13:22Guest:Or is that it?

01:13:24Guest:Yeah, it picks up speed.

01:13:25Guest:It's called a letdown.

01:13:26Guest:Yeah.

01:13:26Guest:That's when, like, and I can feel it.

01:13:28Guest:Like, it'll, like, tingle, and then it'll, like, gush out.

01:13:31Guest:No way.

01:13:32Guest:Yeah.

01:13:32Guest:Really?

01:13:33Guest:Yeah, but you can't.

01:13:34Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:13:35Guest:Yeah, you see how it's, like, coming more frequently now?

01:13:37Guest:Oh, my God.

01:13:38Guest:Yeah, isn't that crazy?

01:13:39Guest:My body's a food factory.

01:13:41Marc:Oh, my God.

01:13:42Guest:Yeah.

01:13:42Marc:I've never seen it before.

01:13:44Guest:Yeah.

01:13:44Marc:It's a first.

01:13:45Yeah.

01:13:45Guest:Yeah.

01:13:46Guest:It's dedication, man.

01:13:48Guest:Yeah.

01:13:48Marc:Again, that's episode 704, and it's available right now in whatever podcast app you're using.

01:13:53Marc:If you want to get access to all episodes ad-free, sign up for WTF Plus.

01:13:57Marc:Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF Plus.

01:14:05Marc:Alex Borstein is on Thursday for a talk that initially had to happen inside my house because of a power outage.

01:14:12Marc:But we figured it out.

01:14:14Marc:Are you rolling and tumbling?

01:14:16Marc:I do occasionally.

01:15:34Thank you.

01:17:29guitar solo

01:18:07Marc:Boomer lives.

01:18:14Marc:Monkey La Fonda.

01:18:16Marc:Cat angels everywhere.