Episode 1413 - Austin Butler
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it
Marc:How is everybody doing out there?
Marc:Seriously.
Marc:L.A.
Marc:was insane the last few days.
Marc:And I've seen rain.
Marc:But this was special.
Marc:This was torrential, apocalyptic, unending, seemingly unending.
Marc:But I loved every minute of it.
Marc:I seriously loved every fucking minute of it.
Marc:It was crazy.
Marc:I mean, I'll take water over fire any day.
Marc:They can both be destructive, but I'll take water.
Marc:I'll take water every time, and we need the water.
Marc:I don't know where this puts us in terms of drought or what have you, but I have to assume that groundwater meets something.
Marc:I have to assume that the groundwater increased.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's amazing how little I know about almost everything
Marc:Yet I will I'll make assumptions, but I'll be clear to not cite them.
Marc:I'm assuming that we got some water over the last three days of unending rain.
Marc:So listen.
Marc:Austin Butler, I talked to him today.
Marc:He's the Best Actor nominee for playing Elvis.
Marc:You've also seen him in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood in one of the funniest scenes ever on camera, which I talked to him about.
Marc:And also, if you're of a certain age, you know him from a bunch of Nickelodeon and Disney Channel shows, like a lot.
Marc:But boy, that scene with Brad Pitt, I get I laugh just thinking about the scene with Austin Butler and Brad Pitt and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
Marc:I almost after I talked to him had to watch it again just to I might have to watch it again.
Marc:I really enjoy that movie.
Marc:But so he's on the show.
Marc:That's happening.
Marc:But I'd like to thank everybody, I guess, is what I want to do and acknowledge something.
Marc:At the beginning of the month, I talked about an Iranian comic named Zainab Mousavi.
Marc:She was arrested in Iran for telling jokes about the government and the police, and she was sentenced to two years in prison after already spending a month in solitary confinement.
Marc:A comedian.
Marc:for talking about the police and the government.
Marc:Now, we were told that the most effective thing anyone could do was raise attention about Zainab because the Iranian government doesn't like when things get noisy.
Marc:Well...
Marc:I am here to tell you that we were told last week that the government has thrown out Zainab's prison sentence.
Marc:And we were told that the only reason they did not put her back in jail was because of the media attention.
Marc:She is still barred from doing stand-up comedy again, but she will continue to make videos on Instagram.
Marc:Now, look, this is pretty astounding stuff and reason to stay engaged, which sometimes I fight.
Marc:But I was happy to have the focus.
Marc:And I just want to say that everyone who took the time to boost Zaneb's story on social media helped keep this woman out of jail.
Marc:Something that only takes a moment of your time can be the difference in securing someone else's freedom.
Marc:Crazy, right?
Marc:But true.
Marc:There are still thousands of Iranians in prison for speaking out against the current regime.
Marc:Two we're told about are Toumaj Salehi, a rapper who is in solitary and faces execution, and Fatemeh Separi, a woman's rights activist who faces an 18-year sentence for saying the supreme leader should resign.
Marc:Put their names out there, people.
Marc:We will post them on our socials and do this whenever you learn of political prisoners in Iran.
Marc:Zaneb is proof that you can make a difference just by saying their names.
Marc:This is where it's really happening, where people are on the killing block for what they say.
Marc:That doesn't happen here, no matter how much people talk about being canceled or what they can or cannot say.
Marc:But it happens there, the government has people on death row for speaking out.
Marc:It's fucking crazy to even think about.
Marc:So look, there was a blackout from the rain and the lights are out in my house for a couple hours.
Marc:And I lit some candles and I sat there with the cats who were a little freaked out, which surprised me.
Marc:Just sat in that silence of, you know, a couple of pieces of equipment somewhere in the house beeping because they were dead.
Marc:And I just realized, like, well, I've got no...
Marc:power over any of this and so many people in the world live compromised lives because of of either you know poverty or or bad infrastructure or shitty government or it had some of them right here in this country you know
Marc:And I just started to sat there in the dark to try to get a handle on, you know, what I was feeling, how I was thinking.
Marc:You know, I don't meditate anymore, but I saw it as sort of a time for like, not meditation, but just sitting there in the sort of a mild terror of the reality that everything could go away.
Marc:And I just sat in that for a minute.
Marc:You know, just destruction.
Marc:so many places in the world, so much destruction.
Marc:And I somehow just accepted that reality and chose to kind of be, all right, well, be aware, you know, step up if you have to.
Marc:But Jesus, man, I mean, is the shit in my fridge gonna go bad or what?
Marc:It's so always amazing to me
Marc:when the macro overwhelms, the micro is your lifeboat.
Marc:And it's easy, I guess, on some level to keep both of them in your mind at the same time.
Marc:I find that lately I've been almost totally detached from
Marc:from cultural news, global political news.
Marc:I know vaguely what's happening, but I've sort of pulled a good part of my brain out of the electricity of
Marc:the culture wars and political tribalism and sort of rampant insanity.
Marc:There's nothing incendiary in my brain about the world other than a sort of fucked up acceptance of how fucked up it is.
Marc:I mean, this rain was just rain.
Marc:And it's hard not to frame...
Marc:Horrible weather is some indicator, which it probably is.
Marc:But I mean, I assume it's rained this hard before, but it was pretty hard and it was pretty cold.
Marc:I know there's chemical spills.
Marc:I know that, you know, China and Russia and the Ukraine.
Marc:I know, I know, I know.
Marc:But I don't know that there's anything I can do about it or that any level of my understanding of any of those situations is going to shed new light on it.
Marc:Because I don't know fuck all.
Marc:I'm okay with that right now.
Marc:I'm going to embrace it.
Marc:Look, I saw the Elvis movie.
Marc:And I liked it.
Marc:You know, since I've seen it and I've brought it up to people, some of them are like, ugh.
Marc:And I'm like, what?
Marc:It was a hallucination.
Marc:It was a meditation on the idea of the life of Elvis.
Marc:It was beautifully shot and multilayered and interesting.
Marc:The idea that was sort of shot from the colonel's, you know, corrupt point of view.
Marc:And, you know, and that was sort of coming up against Elvis's sort of force force.
Marc:of nature being.
Marc:I kind of liked the whole setup.
Marc:And there is no doubt that this guy, Austin Butler, fucking nailed this thing.
Marc:And I'm not a big fan of biopics.
Marc:Rarely.
Marc:Especially when they're about someone that everyone knows.
Marc:Or you have a recollection of.
Marc:It's hard, man.
Marc:The best of them are not great at it.
Marc:Do you know?
Marc:I mean, do you know what I'm saying?
Marc:It's hard to portray a real character.
Marc:Especially someone like Elvis.
Marc:But I got to be honest with you, by the end of this fucking movie, I couldn't tell the difference between the footage of real Elvis, real sad, almost done Elvis, and fake Austin Butler sad, almost done Elvis.
Marc:Could not tell the difference in the shots at the end because they showed both.
Marc:And I just thought that he manifested the spirit of that guy.
Marc:Not easy.
Marc:Jamie Foxx as Ray.
Marc:Ray, Charles, and Elvis, hard to not make caricatures of them.
Marc:Jamie did a great job with that thing.
Marc:And I think that Austin Butler really nailed Elvis.
Marc:And I think he was great in a couple of other things.
Marc:Well, primarily that once upon a time in Hollywood.
Marc:Yeah, I got to bring that up, man.
Marc:You'll hear it.
Marc:You'll hear it.
Marc:So Elvis is now streaming on HBO Max.
Marc:And this is me talking to the star of that movie, Austin Butler.
Marc:How are you doing?
Marc:All right?
Marc:I'm doing well.
Marc:I'm doing well.
Marc:It's a whirlwind, you know?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Are you in the middle of it or towards the end of it, or is it picking up?
Guest:I mean, we're towards the end of it, but I've never talked about one film for so long.
Marc:It's been about a year now that we've just been...
Marc:So now how do you not say the same?
Marc:It's like I've done that shit, but obviously not as big a film.
Marc:But eventually you just find some things you can say over and over again, and then you'd say to yourself, like, fuck it.
Marc:What does it matter if I said the same thing to e-television as I did to e-television Latino?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I noticed myself prefacing so many things with, I was just saying this.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Otherwise, you end up with that thing where you're saying the exact same story over and over.
Marc:Right, but then you realize that that's part of the job.
Marc:They don't want anything different than that.
Marc:It's not like someone's sitting there comparing.
Marc:Like, you know, I watched him on these two minor television outlets, and he said pretty much the same thing.
Guest:And once you start trying to mix it up, that's where I end up.
Guest:I'll start going down a rabbit hole and realize I got no idea where I'm going with this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this is getting bad.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You're like, me and my big idea is to try to keep it fresh.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's so true.
Guest:Man, Leslie is incredible, by the way.
Guest:Oh, thanks, man.
Guest:You're so great in that.
Guest:Oh, thanks, buddy.
Guest:You're so fantastic.
Marc:Yeah, I didn't have to play a real person, so the pressure was off kind of.
Marc:It's a different type of pressure.
Guest:It is.
Marc:I think it was an evolution for me to do that role and not just be some version of a cranky Jewish guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Which I am.
Marc:But, I mean, that's the challenge of it.
Marc:But is Austin, is this your real name, dude?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, it is.
Marc:That's like you have to live up to that name.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:My parents had some idea when I was a kid.
Marc:But it's like one of those, like, it's a traditional, almost like movie star name.
Marc:Like Austin Butler.
Marc:It's timeless.
Marc:You know, you could be like, yes, Austin Butler was popular during the silent era.
Yeah.
Guest:I love hearing you say that.
Guest:When I was a kid, it didn't feel that way.
Marc:Well, yeah, you probably felt like it.
Guest:Also, the last name Butler, I used to get made fun of as a kid.
Guest:Like, what, Butt?
Guest:Because it's got the, yeah.
Marc:My last name's Marin.
Marc:You know what I got?
Marc:What'd you get?
Marc:Moron, all day long.
Guest:so butler what so you got butler yeah yeah yeah kids will lean into anything to make fun of you yeah that seems okay but i mean it does seem like uh kind of a cowboyish name i mean were your parents where are you from where are they from well so my my grandfather was a cowboy my grandfather yeah yeah his uh he was born in texas and then moved to arizona when he was i think five and my great grandfather his dad was a he was a butcher and then he ended up buying a bunch of cattle and
Marc:Going right to the source.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's tired of cutting other people's meat.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he went right to the source.
Guest:And so my grandfather and his brother, whose name is Butch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he just passed away recently.
Guest:Really?
Guest:But, but yeah, my uncle Butch is where that was.
Guest:That's the butcher?
Guest:That's, that's the butcher's son.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That's the, that's my grandfather's brother.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:My great grandfather was the butcher and then his, both his sons ended up roping cattle and becoming cowboys.
Marc:So it's there.
Marc:So, I mean, like, was that a consideration in the naming of you?
Marc:I think so.
Marc:Well, Butler is one of those, I guess it's like maybe English name, but it does sound like one of those Texan, old Texan names.
Marc:Is it your paternal lineage?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So my father's father.
Marc:Goes back to Texas?
Guest:Yeah, goes back to Texas.
Guest:And where'd your dad end up?
Guest:My dad was born in Phoenix, Arizona.
Guest:Phoenix.
Guest:And then he moved up when he was, before high school, they moved up to Northern California, Santa Maria.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I kind of do.
Marc:That's where they, that's where it's not, it's the Santa Maria tri-tip.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So my grandfather makes a mean Santa Maria tri-tip.
Marc:I know that place from the rub, the popular Santa Maria rub that you put on the tri-tip.
Marc:I've made it before.
Marc:Have you?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:It's tasty.
Marc:It's like paprika, garlic, onion powder.
Marc:It's very specific.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it's good.
Marc:But is there like a place up there that, I don't know if you would know, but is there a place that originated?
Marc:There must be.
Marc:I've got to ask my grandpa.
Yeah.
Marc:But he does make a Santa Maria tri-tip?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Is he still around?
Guest:He is.
Guest:He is.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:He turns 80 this month.
Guest:And that's your dad's dad?
Guest:My dad's dad, yeah.
Marc:Well, you're young.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Yeah, but they also had my dad really young.
Guest:My grandmother had him when she was 16.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Was that on purpose?
Guest:17.
Guest:Yeah, I've always assumed so.
Yeah.
Marc:But, wow, that is young.
Marc:Yeah, they were very young.
Marc:Well, it just means you got them still, right?
Marc:Yeah, which I'm very grateful for.
Marc:So you grew up where?
Marc:I was born in Anaheim, California.
Marc:Yeah, see, that's a nebulous kind of, what is Anaheim, California?
Guest:What is it?
Guest:It's Disneyland.
Guest:I know that, but it's like, nothing, right?
Guest:Not much else.
Guest:A lot of suburbs.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I just, I mean, childhood was like riding my bike a lot.
Guest:You know, I rode my bike to the neighborhood a lot.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So, and your dad did what?
Guest:My dad was a commercial real estate appraiser.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:Was he on the level?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, buddy, don't talk about the pipes.
Guest:How much should it cost you?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:This thing's ready to go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And did your mom work?
Guest:Yeah, my mom, before I was born, she was a dental hygienist.
Guest:And then when she was pregnant with me, she decided that she wanted to be a stay-at-home mom.
Guest:So then she started doing daycare out of the house.
Guest:So when I grew up, I always had little kids in the house because my mom would watch.
Marc:She ran a business?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Having the kids from the neighborhood over?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Do you have siblings?
Guest:I have an older sister, five years older.
Guest:Five years older?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a big gap.
Guest:Yeah, so I was like her little doll as a kid.
Guest:She just loved having a little brother.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's fun.
Marc:So you had all these kids over that you kind of knew or didn't know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And they were mostly the children of the teachers who worked at the school where I went to elementary school.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:So my kindergarten teacher, my mom watched her son.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So he ended up becoming my best friend.
Guest:Still?
Guest:Not still.
Guest:I mean, I still have a lot of love for him, but we don't talk very much anymore.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Do you have any of those people in your life from way back then?
Guest:You know, I wish I did.
Guest:It's weird, right?
Guest:Do you have people from when you were a kid that you still... Yeah, one.
Marc:One or two.
Marc:Like, I mean, that I'm actually in touch with.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I got one guy that I've known since third grade.
Marc:Wow, and that's out in Jersey?
Marc:No, that's in Albuquerque.
Marc:I was born in Jersey, but I grew up in New Mexico.
Marc:But I got that guy.
Marc:I got Dave.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And I got...
Marc:Yeah, but I think, well, there's another guy that I met in fifth grade that I'm still in touch with.
Marc:We don't hang out all the time, but they're still in my life.
Marc:That's so cool to have that.
Marc:It's weird, yeah, because we're old as fuck now.
Marc:If you don't see him in a while, all of a sudden you're like, oh shit, if you look like that.
Marc:What does that say about me?
Marc:I must be heading the same direction.
Marc:But they're holding up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So how did you get out of Anaheim, man?
Guest:Man, I had a stepbrother who got scouted at a fair.
Guest:Whose kid is that?
Guest:My mom got remarried.
Guest:My parents were divorced when I was seven.
Guest:That's young.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then she got remarried a few years later.
Guest:And I had a stepbrother who his dad was a hairdresser.
Guest:Oh, so it's not your mom's kid.
Guest:It's his kid.
Guest:Yeah, it's his kid.
Guest:And so then after my mother left that husband, she didn't really have a place to stay.
Guest:It was a very... Rough.
Guest:Divorce went very quickly, and it was a situation that was really awful that just caused my mom to say, we got to get out of the house.
Guest:So we got out of the house and moved back with my dad.
Guest:And so we all stayed in this tiny little apartment.
Guest:It was a one-bedroom apartment.
Guest:My dad and I slept on air mattresses in the living room.
Guest:And my mom and my sister slept in the back room.
Marc:So I guess they were relatively friendly?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:They became like siblings.
Guest:Your parents?
Guest:My parents.
Marc:What a trip.
Guest:Yeah, it was really sweet.
Guest:It was kind of amazing how they handled it.
Marc:So the second husband was a monster?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, and she had to escape and she took you guys.
Marc:So you were primarily living with her and now you're all back in the family house on the floor with your dad.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Getting closer.
Marc:Getting closer.
Marc:In some weird way.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you lived like that for the rest of...
Guest:We lived like that until we all moved up to Van Nuys.
Guest:And so when I was about... As a family?
Guest:Yeah, as a family.
Guest:At about 12, 13, we moved up to this house in Van Nuys.
Guest:My parents were not romantic at all.
Guest:But they were living together.
Guest:My dad made the garage into a room, and he stayed there.
Guest:And then my mom and my sister and I stayed in the house.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:My mom had a boyfriend and it was this wild experience.
Marc:And did your dad see people or was he just a weird garage guy?
Guest:He's the kind of guy who doesn't mind living in a garage.
Guest:He finds the good in life and he's got his passions and different things.
Guest:And it was nice because then we could eat breakfast together as a family, but they weren't romantic in the slightest.
Marc:But they were friendly.
Guest:They were friendly.
Marc:And so everything was okay.
Guest:Yeah, it was okay.
Marc:But you knew it was kind of weird.
Guest:Yeah, it's definitely not your average family.
Marc:When you got friends going like, why are your dad sweeping in the garage?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How'd you explain that?
Guest:You know, he just, when you meet him, it kind of, it makes sense.
Guest:Makes sense?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's kind of a Hunter S. Thompson sort of a guy.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Now he lives in Arizona.
Guest:He's got land out there and a bunch of dogs.
Guest:What part?
Guest:He's in, he's about an hour west of Phoenix.
Marc:My brother had a wife from there, and I had a wife from there.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:I know Phoenix.
Guest:You know Phoenix.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's hot there in the summertime.
Marc:It's getting hotter, dude.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Marc:And it's like that kind of heat that you don't quite feel until you can't breathe properly.
Marc:Yeah, it starts to burn your lungs.
Marc:Right, and you have no liquid left in your body.
Marc:Completely dehydrated.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I kind of like it.
Marc:It kind of makes you feel buzzed, you know?
Marc:It does.
Marc:It does.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so you're out there in Van Nuys, but in terms of the acting thing, that was your stepbrother.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he ended up not really going into acting, but his dad was a hairdresser, so he got a perm.
Guest:He always wanted a perm.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So his dad permed his hair, and he had this really unique look.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Like wavy or like?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, he essentially, he was a kid who wanted an afro, but he couldn't, you know, it wasn't natural to him.
Guest:So he got a perm and it didn't turn out quite right.
Guest:And he had a very interesting look.
Guest:And so he got scouted.
Guest:For being weird?
Guest:Yeah, for just having this unique look.
Guest:And then so I went up with, just tagged long when he was going up to this audition in L.A.,
Guest:When we were, I think I was 11 maybe.
Guest:And they said, you got another kid?
Guest:He should do it too.
Guest:And I was so incredibly shy.
Guest:Incredibly introverted.
Guest:But for whatever reason that day I said, yeah, I'll do it.
Marc:Fuck it, to audition?
Guest:Yeah, to audition.
Guest:What I found out was it was actually a background talent agency.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So I ended up getting extra work.
Guest:Good job, kid.
Marc:Stand over there and don't say anything.
Marc:Stand in the background.
Guest:Don't say a word.
Guest:You're going to be blurry in the background.
Guest:But that's how I got on the first set that I was ever on.
Guest:And what was the movie?
Guest:That was this Nickelodeon television show called Ned's Declassified.
Marc:So this was your—let me—before we get into the, you know, the weird Nickelodeon Disney universe.
Marc:So how are you doing with losing the accent?
Guest:I hear about it so much.
Guest:I really—you know, I don't even know how to talk about it.
Guest:It's—
Guest:I spent three years doing nothing else but... But Elvis talked.
Guest:Yeah, just trying to understand his mind and speak like him and sing like him.
Guest:You might be stuck.
Guest:It was such an incredible focus in one direction.
Guest:Right.
Guest:As well as the fact that being a shy kid... Yeah, yeah.
Guest:having, you know, the tools in order to get on stage as Elvis, I had to learn certain bits of myself.
Guest:So I think habitually certain things are linked to a feeling of being able to go out in front of a ton of people.
Guest:So I think certain things may trigger, you know, that feeling of confidence that I had as Elvis.
Marc:It's like the opposite of PTSD.
Marc:You're triggered to be Elvis in certain situations.
Marc:Yeah, it's really, it's a funny thing, but...
Marc:Well, I was thinking about it because, like, I swear to God, I don't know that Pacino ever shook Tony Montagna.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like, I saw him do American Buffalo in Boston when I was in college.
Marc:Oh, man, I'm so bummed I didn't get to see that.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:But it was, like, only a few years after Scarface, and I'm like, he's still got a little Cuban going.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I believe that he had it going all the way through Scent of a Woman.
Marc:You can see Tony in him until later, until he plays Kevorkian and he starts doing those weird character roles.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But anyways, well, good luck.
Guest:Well, I just re-watched Heat the other day, and you see the same thing, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, some of it's Pacino, but some of it, like, there's a kind of weird confidence that he definitely got from Scarface.
Guest:Well, because that's the thing.
Guest:I mean, you— Good movie, though, right?
Marc:Oh, such a good movie.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:I talked to Michael Mann.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:It's an amazing film.
Marc:It holds up so well.
Marc:He's a character.
Marc:Oh, it's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, he's got some vision, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you—have you—when was the last time you watched—
Guest:Thief.
Guest:Man, I just put that on my list because I haven't seen it since I was a kid.
Marc:Dude, it's so good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's Tuesday World.
Guest:Yeah, and James Caan.
Marc:I talked to James Caan before he died, and that was his movie, man.
Marc:He loved that one.
Marc:That was his favorite.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So what were you going to say about Pacino?
Guest:Well, no, it's just that thing where you...
Guest:It's only ever you, you know, you're turning up bits of yourself.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:You're manipulating the architecture over your own mouth.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it's a strange thing because you're finding different bits of yourself.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And then suddenly now you're going out into the world and those are now bits of you that you've become comfortable with.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And so it's a strange thing to sort of talk about.
Marc:Well, you put this thing in place, and the bits of you are running through the mill of that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:So you engage whatever your craft is, and you create this thing, and then your emotions come through it.
Marc:But the triggering idea is funny, that in certain situations, because of your shy nature, like if you ever are called upon, even at a wedding, to sort of sing a song or do a toast, they might get Elvis.
Yeah.
Marc:Is that what you're talking about?
Guest:It's possible.
Guest:All bets are off at this point.
Guest:It's not intentional.
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:You'll see.
Guest:Now I'm actively really trying to not, because people have just mentioned it so many times, and I really have to think, right now I don't think I have a Southern accent at all.
Marc:No, I think it's slight and it comes and goes, but I just think it's the nature of it because you were, you know, and the truth is you did a good job with him.
Marc:So no one's, like, I think the difference would have been is like, that guy really fucked up Elvis.
Marc:I imagine that you wouldn't be doing it too much.
Marc:But I think that because everyone's like, how'd you get so Elvis-y?
Marc:And you're like, well, you know.
Marc:But also, like, I'll tell you, man, as a guy who was a child actor, it's better that the only repercussions you have of that life is that now you might talk like Elvis for the rest of your life.
Marc:Like, there's a whole generation of these child actors that really did far better than the one generation before you.
Marc:Because remember, it was always sort of like a sad tale of the child actor, like, how'd he turn out?
Marc:And then you're like, oh, no.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But, like, all of your guy, all the people of your generation, they seem to be doing okay.
Guest:Well, I mean, thankfully, you know, you had people leading the way in that.
Guest:I mean, when I was a kid looking at Leo's career, just seeing how he transitioned from being a young actor to then the directors that he was working with in film.
Marc:So you were conscious of that.
Marc:So when you still—well, let's go back.
Marc:So you're in the background at Nick.
Marc:And then how do you—do they pull you up?
Marc:Do they like that kid?
Guest:Well, they would—they—
Guest:There was a second AD who worked on this one show named Vince Duque.
Guest:And he ended up, you know, taking me under his wing a little bit and saying, you know, read Stella Adler's book and read this and read that.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:He started giving me acting books and different things.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:And then he started saying, you know, watch these films.
Guest:He told me to watch Dead Poets Society for the first time and that sort of thing.
Guest:And so he was really...
Guest:pivotal in my life as far as kind of showing me a direction of going, there's an art to this.
Marc:What do you think, what was it about you that made him see something?
Marc:I mean, were you... I don't know.
Guest:My mom was very... People just loved being around her.
Guest:She was like that really vibrant energy.
Guest:So I think that just her being on set kind of... Dore attention to you.
Guest:Dore attention.
Guest:And then...
Guest:I really loved it.
Guest:I didn't have very many passions as a kid besides playing the guitar.
Guest:I would stay in.
Guest:I didn't really like hanging out with other kids.
Guest:I didn't like playing sports or anything.
Marc:You a good player?
Guest:Guitar player?
Guest:Yeah, I can play.
Guest:I can play a bit.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Are you being humble?
Marc:Are you Glen Campbell good?
Guest:I go through Glen Campbell.
Guest:He can pick, man.
Guest:It's true.
Marc:Yeah, there's a couple dudes that you don't even realize, like Jerry Reed.
Marc:It's like, what the fuck?
Marc:It's incredible when you hear that, isn't it?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:Well, I mean, at that stage, I was playing mostly Hendrix and B.B.
Guest:King.
Guest:What was your first electric?
Guest:My first electric was this Yamaha from Costco.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:And then I got a Stratocaster.
Guest:So a Strat guy.
Guest:Because I was such a Hendrix fan, so I got this cream Strat.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And then I got a telly.
Guest:Were you in bands?
Guest:I was never in bands because it was, again, being around people, you know.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Marc:I'm the same.
Marc:But I don't know that—I don't think I got— What?
Guest:Did you play by yourself for most of your life?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because you said that you were playing with other people.
Marc:Yeah, I played by myself.
Marc:Yeah, now I'm fucking almost 60.
Marc:Wow, wow.
Marc:But, you know, I would play—I just had a fear of stage, you know, kind of like— Yeah, yeah.
Marc:For me, and maybe this is one of the reasons why you can't quite shake the Elvis, is that—
Marc:To me, singing and being on stage in that way is the most vulnerable place.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:To me, it's terrifying.
Marc:Terrifying.
Marc:To start singing and fucking that up, where do you go?
Marc:Where do you go?
Guest:Yeah, completely.
Guest:Completely.
Marc:So I just avoided it, dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know exactly what you mean.
Guest:I mean, that's the thing.
Guest:I get very introverted when I'm myself most of the time.
Marc:I think I do, too, actually.
Guest:You do, too.
Marc:Yeah, but right when I get around people, though, I'm excited.
Marc:I like people.
Marc:I like people.
Marc:I like going to the party.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I don't like not being invited.
Marc:But I'm fine when I'm home.
Marc:I'm fine when I'm home, too.
Marc:I don't know if I would say I'm quiet, but I don't know if it's introverted.
Marc:But I think my nature is softer than what lives out in the world, you know?
Marc:Does that make sense?
Guest:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Marc:But so this guy gives you the books.
Guest:Yeah, so he gave me the books, and then on top of that, then he would say, you know, he also started saying things.
Guest:He started giving me backstories for extra work.
Guest:So he'd say, okay, so you got a crush on this girl over here, and you want to go talk to her.
Guest:So suddenly I'm in the background of a shot, but I've got ideas.
Guest:You're making choices.
Guest:I'm suddenly going to my locker and these things mean something to me.
Guest:And it started giving me this feeling of excitement about learning about what is this thing acting?
Marc:What a trip.
Guest:That guy's just giving you an acting course.
Guest:Completely.
Marc:As a background kid.
Guest:While I'm doing background.
Guest:And I'm just blurry in some orange shirt walking through the background.
Guest:But you're thinking like, how can I talk to her?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, completely.
Guest:And then he sort of fought for me to get a little line on the show or something.
Guest:So then suddenly I've gotten more of a featured part in this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then one of the actresses on the show, her mom and my mother were friends, and she said, you should meet her manager.
Guest:And so that's how I got my first manager.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:And this is when you're living in Van Nuys?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Then we lived in Van Nuys at that time.
Marc:And then you become like this dude on all these Nickelodeon things.
Guest:Yes, then it was Nickelodeon, Disney, then you work your way up to young adult TV shows.
Marc:But it's the whole world.
Marc:Like, you know, I didn't grow up with it.
Marc:I mean, you know, because I don't think it really existed in the same way when I was a kid.
Marc:You know, there was three kid shows, you know, when I was a kid.
Marc:So, you know, by the time you're doing this, there's whole kid networks.
Marc:And it looks like you did, like, just a shit ton of, you know, kid TV.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they just move you around?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You just go to hundreds of auditions and then hope to book one.
Marc:But within this universe.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And didn't they at some point get to know you?
Marc:You know, once you start doing real characters at Nickelodeon, weren't they like, well, we know this kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Can you put the letter jacket on?
Marc:Let's see you do that.
Guest:The funny thing was playing two different roles in the same show.
Guest:You did?
Guest:There's a show called Zoe 101 and I played one role.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This dorky kid.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And then I sort of started to go through puberty and then I came back and then I was Zoe's boyfriend on the show.
Marc:No one said anything?
Marc:Like you just sort of... They're like, the kids aren't going to know.
Guest:They won't know.
Guest:He's a completely different person now.
Marc:So when do you feel...
Marc:So through all that, you're building confidence just being on set because that's half of it, right?
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Marc:Like, you know, just, you know, like either you've got that thing that can do it or you don't.
Marc:That's the weird thing about acting as I've grown to talk to people and in my own experience is like, you can't explain why somebody can like on action, lock in and do the thing without looking like self-conscious or not being able to talk.
Marc:Like there are people that like you do that, even if they took 20 acting classes,
Marc:Or they're still going to not be able to do the line.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's almost a genetic thing.
Marc:But once you're on set, if you have that thing, you don't even think about it anymore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's true.
Guest:And you start to learn those different tools that help you in that way.
Guest:And it became really freeing for me because then I was able to suddenly express bits of myself that I was repressed in other areas of my life.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Anger and, you know, vulnerability in certain ways that maybe I would sort of hold that in.
Guest:And suddenly now this gave me a forum in which I could, you know, start to release these things.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Were you just a kid sitting home playing guitar by yourself?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is probably your whole social life.
Marc:Completely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I felt like I found my tribe.
Marc:You found your tribe and you could actually have human emotions through fictional characters.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's wild.
Marc:It's interesting.
Marc:Who are the people that you came up with that we know that you were friends with?
Marc:Anybody?
Guest:Well, I mean, you know, it's interesting because so many of them are either not acting anymore or they've moved back to Texas or Georgia or wherever.
Guest:But I mean, certain people like Selena Gomez or Miley, what she's doing.
Marc:Are you friends with her still?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We don't talk much, but Selena and I talk more often than Miley.
Marc:Fucking Miley's a powerhouse, dude.
Marc:She's a powerhouse, man.
Guest:Jesus, man.
Marc:I can't take it.
Guest:She's incredible.
Marc:I want to get her in here, but my buddy manages her, but I'm not going to pester her.
Marc:Oh, she would be great.
Marc:But she's a trip, man.
Marc:I'm so impressed with her.
Marc:When you see her sing, you're like, holy shit.
Guest:It's the charisma thing.
Guest:It's like, what is that?
Guest:Where does that come from?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And just the sort of self-ownership.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Crazy.
Guest:She's so empowering.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so those are your peers.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're starting to feel confident.
Marc:But what's the role, and be honest with me, where you're like, it's okay if it's silly.
Marc:What's the first role where you're like, I'm doing it.
Marc:I'm like really doing this.
Guest:I mean, man, there's so many of those transitional points in your life.
Marc:I know, I know, but I want the first one.
Marc:Was it in iCarly?
Guest:What was it?
Guest:I mean, oh, geez.
Guest:You know, Zoey 101 was the first time I was a series regular on the show.
Marc:And you got to do Two Guys.
Guest:Yeah, and I got to do Two Guys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that was a big break.
Guest:That was a big one.
Guest:That was a pivotal moment.
Guest:And then I went off and shot this film, the first movie that I ever shot.
Marc:What was that?
Guest:I went to New Zealand and...
Guest:Shot this film called Aliens in the Attic.
Guest:Who directed that?
Guest:John Schultz.
Marc:How was that experience?
Marc:Did you feel like, I'm Leonardo, man, I'm doing it.
Guest:I mean, Aliens in the Attic, I'm in New Zealand.
Guest:Not because of the content of the film.
But...
Guest:I mean, they don't kind of leave anything to their imagination.
Guest:But it's funny because I'll think that nobody has seen that film because it bombed at the box office.
Guest:And then suddenly some 20-year-old or something will say, you know, I grew up with that film.
Guest:I watched it on Blu-ray.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:How'd you even get it?
Marc:Right?
Guest:You must have had to get that on the black market or something.
Guest:There's always a few.
Guest:Yeah, there's always a few.
Guest:That have been with you the whole way.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So that, I mean, I shot that in New Zealand for six months, and my mom got to be there with me the whole time.
Guest:That must have been great.
Guest:It's a blast.
Marc:It's a blast.
Guest:Pretty, right?
Guest:So beautiful.
Marc:But you were close during Elvis.
Marc:You were close to New Zealand.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, close.
Guest:I never went over there during that time.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I've never been to New Zealand, but I've been to Australia.
Marc:Once you're in Australia, you're like, well, I made it here.
Marc:Can I not fly for a little while?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Took me a day to get here.
Marc:I know, yeah.
Marc:I just want to stay.
Marc:Ultimately, it just keeps going.
Marc:You keep working.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're just getting better.
Marc:What was some other lead roles?
Marc:I don't know these movies, and I'm sorry to say that, but Sharpay's Fabulous Adventure I don't have on Blu-ray.
Guest:You haven't seen that film?
Guest:Come on, it's a classic.
Marc:Maybe that kid who's a big fan of Aliens in the Attica has Sharpay's Big Adventure, too.
Marc:Oh, geez.
Guest:It's so funny because you try to do your best with every role.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Guest:You really try to—I would coach on every role and really just break down the script on every single thing, no matter what it was.
Guest:Because it's like nails on a chalkboard when you do a scene and you just go, I just butchered it.
Guest:I was awful.
Guest:And you drive home in the car and you think, why didn't I do this?
Guest:Why didn't I do that?
Guest:Why wasn't I truthful in that moment?
Guest:So that's what would keep me coming back so much, you know, just trying to figure out how do you get better?
Guest:Why did that?
Marc:Beating the shit out of yourself.
Marc:And why did the director sign off on that?
Marc:Yeah, why did they let me?
Marc:Right, why did they go cut?
Marc:Like, you know, I can't, no, because you don't want to be that guy.
Marc:I think I can, we're done.
Marc:We're moving on.
Marc:I can do better.
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:And then you just look at it and you're like, I could have just turned.
Marc:Why didn't I just turn?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Do you have that after days on Saturday?
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:But I mean, I just put out a comedy special.
Marc:And I can watch that thing.
Marc:And I've been running that material for a year and a half.
Marc:And there's just like little beats where I'm like, I just would have been so much better if I just, I don't know what the fuck I was thinking.
Marc:I've been doing it.
Marc:The blessed unrest that keeps us marching.
Marc:Where is that from?
Guest:That's this Martha Graham quote.
Guest:You know, Martha?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The choreographer?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She has this great, great quote.
Guest:And the end of it is talking about art.
Guest:And it says, the blessed unrest that keeps us marching and makes us more alive than the others.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:A very poetic way of saying pathologically insecure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're never satisfied with anything that you do whatsoever.
Marc:It's a glorious way to look at self-hatred.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Marc:It really is.
Marc:Yeah, I need to get that tattooed on myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jeez.
Marc:All right, so... Okay, here's a couple questions.
Marc:Because, I mean, you weren't really on my radar until the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
Marc:And honestly...
Marc:That is one of the funniest scenes in the history of movies.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:When you and Brad Pitt, you say, like, I'm the angel.
Marc:What is he doing?
Marc:I'm the devil.
Marc:I'm here to do the devil's business.
Marc:No, that wasn't it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's something stupid.
Guest:I love when he says, you were on a horsey.
Marc:It is so funny, dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's like the funniest.
Guest:And those were lines Brad was just coming up with at certain points.
Guest:I mean, he's so funny.
Guest:He's so brilliant, man.
Guest:No, you were on a horsey?
Guest:Yeah, you were on a horsey.
Guest:No, I was dumber than that.
Guest:What did he say?
Marc:Yeah, I was dumber than that.
Marc:Rex.
Marc:Rex.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:oh my god yeah so funny so let's let's talk about this horseback riding uh-huh did you do all it did you yeah yeah that was all me you were riding off yeah because that's one that's i don't think we've ever seen a riding off on a horse better oh that's cool you just kind of let it happen and you were really fucking going oh yeah is that just that you learned to do that or were you on your grandfather's ranch at some point
Guest:Yeah, so when I was a kid, my grandpa used to stick me on a horse and just spank it on the ass, and I'd just take off.
Guest:In Phoenix?
Guest:In Phoenix.
Guest:And then I did this show when I was 23 in New Zealand again called The Shannara Chronicles.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I rode a lot of horses in that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I trained a lot for that.
Guest:But then when I first met with Quentin and when we talked about doing this, he sort of pitched me this whole idea of this horse experience, of me racing this horse.
Guest:going back to try to find Brad after he hits Clem.
Guest:And so I trained like crazy, and we had this amazing horse master named Scott who I would go riding with right in the sort of, you know, the Burbank equestrian sort of area.
Guest:We'd ride up into the hills there, and we'd ride four or five hours a day every day.
Guest:And you're running those horses.
Guest:Yeah, so I got to the point where I felt so comfortable.
Guest:And when we shot that sequence, we were meant to rehearse it beforehand because I'd never ridden that road.
Guest:And what you can't tell is that the first part of that is on concrete.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which is dangerous on a horse because there's not much traction.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then there's that sort of steep...
Guest:decline, down the hill, and then down Spahn Ranch.
Guest:And so we were going to do a rehearsal, and then Quentin showed up, and we're shooting on film.
Guest:I'd never shot on film before, and suddenly he's there, and he said, you know, should we just shoot the rehearsal?
Guest:And the stunt guy goes, you know, go half speed.
Guest:Do not go full speed.
Guest:And I thought, I got Quentin Tarantino in the car.
Guest:Bob Richardson's there.
Guest:There's no way that I'm not going to
Guest:Go as fast as I possibly can.
Guest:So I just went as fast as I could.
Guest:And they used that take?
Guest:I think we only did two or three takes.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:We may have even only done two because I think the second one that I said, Quentin, I got an idea of like using the reins to whip the horse sort of to kick it up heavier, you know, that old cowboy thing.
Guest:So then we did that on the second take and that was the one that we used.
Marc:That's it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You didn't really shoot where Spawn Ranch was, did you?
Guest:No, no, because that had burned down.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But Clem's in too, Leslie.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, he is.
Marc:He is.
Marc:I punch him.
Marc:You do punch him.
Marc:Poor guy gets punched in every movie he's in.
Guest:Yeah, he does.
Guest:He does.
Guest:He's got one of the greatest laughs, doesn't he?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's got a presence, that guy.
Guest:He does.
Guest:What's his name?
Marc:James Landry Herbert.
Marc:Wow, three-namer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I did it.
Marc:Yeah, I hit him.
Marc:I don't know how.
Marc:I got a little.
Marc:One guy said I didn't throw the punch right, but I think I threw it okay.
Guest:I thought it looked strong.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I thought you threw a hell of a punch.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Have you been training for that?
Marc:Totally, man.
Marc:It took days.
Marc:Days.
Marc:Boxing guy.
Marc:I flew in from the Bronx.
Marc:I had a boxing guy.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:No.
Marc:But so before that, did you move into Hollywood?
Marc:How long did you stay over at your folks' house?
Guest:So yeah, we all lived in Van Nuys.
Guest:And then when I was about 17, 18, my dad moved to Arizona.
Guest:And then at that point, basically the guy who owned the house that we were all living in needed to sell it.
Guest:And we were renting his house.
Guest:So we suddenly had to find a new place to live.
Guest:At that time, I decided to move out on my own.
Guest:My dad moved to Arizona.
Guest:My mom got in her own spot.
Guest:And then shortly thereafter, I booked this job called The Carrie Diaries that filmed in New York.
Guest:So I moved to New York for the first time.
Marc:For how long?
Guest:We did two seasons of this show.
Marc:And you were just every episode, series regular?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And that was a Nickelodeon show?
Guest:No, it was on The CW.
Marc:Oh, yeah, I remember The CW.
Guest:It has a prequel to Sex and the City.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:By the same people?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, by some of the same people.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so we shot that show.
Guest:And that was the first time that I'd lived in New York.
Guest:How was that?
Guest:The greatest time.
Guest:And it changed my life.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because theater wasn't a part of our life out here.
Marc:It's hard to find it.
Guest:It's around.
Guest:You have the Geffen.
Guest:I did a play at the Geffen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's the only other play that I'd done.
Guest:But then I was in London, in New York, and suddenly was watching 14 plays in two weeks.
Guest:If I had time off, I would watch every play that I could possibly see.
Marc:That's interesting because you grew up in front of a camera.
Marc:You didn't even do scene study.
Guest:Well, I mean, I did that in classes.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Marc:You took classes?
Guest:Yeah, I took a lot of classes.
Guest:With who?
Guest:With Howard Fine and Larry Moss.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Out here, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and then I started working with Terry Knickerbocker and Sharon Chatton out here.
Marc:Oh, so you really did the work then.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I worked with a lot of people.
Guest:And I would try to find whoever the actors were that I really admired.
Guest:and find out who trained out who they worked with so sam rockwell worked with terry knickerbocker and i found him or yeah larry uh larry moss worked with hillary swank and with leonardo and that sort of thing so i would find the people that they worked with yeah and just start because i always wanted to go to an acting conservatory right and then i'd find the voice coaches that these people worked with or whoever it was sure i just i just started started to bring these people around so i just wanted to get better you
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:I look back at so much of my work and it's awful.
Guest:You know, you just, I'm really, I had to grow a lot.
Guest:I still have to grow a lot.
Marc:But you were a fucking kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:For a lot of it.
Marc:It's not like you had great material to work with.
Guest:No, but that's how you learn anything.
Guest:Yeah, I get it.
Guest:That's how you learn the guitar.
Guest:You gotta mess up a ton of times before you get it right.
Marc:Oh yeah, I had my own series on IFC and I knew the first couple of seasons I was gonna suck.
Marc:And arguably I sucked for all four.
Marc:But I mean, it doesn't, you know.
Guest:But you get better.
Marc:Yeah, you know.
Marc:What gets better is like, yeah, you can train, you can do everything.
Marc:But ultimately, it's a comfort level in a lot of ways, right?
Marc:Well, what do you think was, what were, when you look back at stuff and you're critical of yourself, what do you think you're not doing?
Marc:I get the whole sort of truthful moments and stuff.
Guest:I think some of it has to do with the very simple thing of having an idea of what the scene is.
Guest:This perfect idea of what the scene should be as though there is some perfect thing out there as opposed to actually listening and being surprised.
Guest:That's the mistake is thinking that.
Guest:So you sort of pre-plan things and you're not actually listening.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, I mean, that's one aspect of it.
Guest:The other thing is just self-consciousness.
Guest:You know, like you were saying, just being... What do I do with my hands?
Guest:Yeah, just watching yourself and not feeling like you're living in an actual space.
Marc:That's tricky, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because, like, you know, you think about those things.
Marc:But once you, like, got that in your head, like, you know, this is an actual space.
Marc:You know, that's my phone over there.
Marc:This is where I put my shoes.
Marc:You know, all that stuff.
Marc:But in a second, you can be like, no, it's not.
Marc:You know, so...
Marc:It really just, you have to put all this stuff in place, but it's not an, all of it has to shut off.
Marc:It's not active.
Marc:It's just a matter of grounding yourself in this thing.
Marc:Do you have little tricks you do?
Marc:Like, you know, I'm going to tie my shoe.
Marc:You know, I'm going to.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's so many little things like that.
Marc:Brad Pitt loves to eat.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It helps.
Guest:It helps.
Marc:He eats on camera.
Marc:I got to start stealing that.
Guest:I got to start eating and just everything.
Marc:I worked with Eric Stoltz on my show, and he was like, you know, when I got a plate of food in front of me in a scene, I'm like, I'm not touching it.
Marc:I'll put a little on the fork, but I'm not going to start working.
Marc:You end up sick by the end of the day.
Marc:But you also end up like, you know, a continuity issue.
Marc:You're sort of like, all right, took a bite.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you have to have the spit bag, and that goes on forever.
Marc:But Stoltz was like, you know, he was into the choreography of eating this thing.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:So he could nail it every time.
Marc:I mean, he was eating, and then they'd do another angle, and he'd be doing it the same way.
Marc:That's a pro.
Marc:Right?
Marc:That's awesome.
Marc:And Brad must do that, too.
Marc:Yeah, he must.
Marc:Because he's always eating.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What are your tricks?
Marc:I've got one trick that I do.
Marc:What's your trick?
Marc:It's going to get tired.
Marc:Oh, hopefully I'll get more opportunities.
Marc:It's like when I'm walking out of a room or a scene, like if part of it is an exit, I always turn back.
Marc:Ooh, give the one last look.
Marc:I've done it so many times.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:That's awesome.
Marc:But I did it in Joker because I only had this one scene.
Marc:I was very clear of it.
Guest:That one last look, that's good.
Marc:It's a good one.
Guest:That's really good.
Guest:Larry Moss told me once that, and I started using this on stage, if you're feeling sort of out of your body,
Guest:I mean, you could have your hands in your pockets and just feel the texture of the cloth of your pants or of the chair.
Guest:Just anything that's bringing you into reality, into the present.
Guest:What color are your shoes?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What color exactly are your eyes or whatever those things are?
Guest:And trying to just take it off yourself and onto something that's tangible.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Yeah, that's a good life practice to get out of your head.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:I remember when I first got sober years ago, a million years ago, and I'd be spiraling.
Marc:You know, oddly, well, I don't need to go into backstory, but like the woman I was with who got me sober, who helped me get sober, when I'd be like, fuck, man, I just wanna, she'd be like, what color are your shoes?
Marc:Where are we?
Marc:I'm like, we're on a subway.
Marc:What color are your shoes?
Marc:Brown.
Marc:And it was like this thing.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's really great.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It worked out pretty good.
Marc:Yeah, it just brings you right in.
Marc:I believe her current husband co-wrote Elvis.
Marc:No way.
Marc:With Baz.
Yeah.
Marc:Jeremy.
Marc:Jeremy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Small world.
Marc:He's a good guy, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What are you going to say?
Marc:What am I going to say?
Marc:But getting back to this to this acting business.
Marc:So you're constantly learning.
Marc:But like when you get what was the process for getting Elvis?
Guest:Well, so the moment in my life that really changed a lot was... So I'd been living in New York.
Guest:I finished that show, came back to L.A.
Guest:I immediately went and did this play at the Geffen, and that was my first play.
Guest:And so I did a play here in L.A.
Guest:And...
Guest:And I just knew that there was something in theater that would, because you're only as good as you are that night.
Guest:You can't rest on your laurels.
Guest:I want to do it.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:And it's such a great experience.
Guest:And you learn so much.
Guest:And so then I spent time in New York just meeting with everybody that I could in the theater scene out there.
Guest:because I knew that I wanted to do a play in New York.
Guest:And then I did this other TV show, and that's right around the time that my mom passed away.
Guest:My mom passed away, and then I went off and I shot this TV show in New Zealand called The Shannara Chronicles, the one that I rode horses in New Zealand for.
Marc:How old were you when your mom passed away?
Guest:23.
Marc:That's pretty awful.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How'd she die?
Marc:She got cancer.
Marc:So it was a protracted thing?
Guest:Yeah, I was actually rehearsing for that play at the Geffen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's when she was diagnosed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then when I finished, but she got to be there for my opening night.
Guest:She'd just been out of surgery.
Guest:So I got to look down at my mom opening night of that play in L.A.
Guest:And then she came and lived with me after I finished that play.
Marc:In here?
Guest:In L.A.
Guest:And it was me and my partner at the time.
Guest:And then she passed away.
Marc:So you were a caregiver?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That's such a...
Marc:How long did it go on for?
Marc:It was about six months.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, you know, it's weird because this, you know, I've been talking a lot about grief and loss and stuff and just that, you know, even if you...
Marc:It's so much a part of life.
Marc:I mean, everyone's going to have to deal with it.
Marc:And people don't really talk about it that much.
Marc:But even, like, to spend that much time knowing that you're converging on this point where it's not going to get better.
Marc:I mean, it just, the loss factor, integrating loss is just so...
Marc:There's no rhyme, no reason to it.
Marc:There's no way to do it properly.
Marc:And it just, it never goes away, does it?
Guest:No, it doesn't.
Guest:That's something that, you know, often grief sort of seems like a car accident or something that happens, it's traumatic, and then it gets better.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:Whereas it's more like waves on a shore.
Guest:Like some days the waves are strong.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Some days they're just lapping at the shore, you know.
Marc:Yeah, you can't shut it down, but you can manage it.
Guest:You can manage it.
Marc:And you can choose, because it'll come up.
Marc:When it first happens, you can't stop your crying.
Marc:You have no real control over it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, it's sort of like you feel the intensity of it, and you're like, well, you know, I'm in a supermarket.
Marc:So I'm like, let's not do it in a supermarket.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, maybe I should wait until I get into the car.
Marc:Yeah, and then it gets a little easier to live with.
Marc:But sometimes it's not bad to revisit it if you can handle it.
Marc:I agree.
Marc:Because, you know, it's all part of the integration.
Guest:Yeah, because I also started noticing that I would have after that grief, after the initial months.
Guest:So basically, my mother passed away.
Guest:Then we had her funeral.
Guest:And then the next week, I flew off to go start shooting this show.
Guest:Oh, my God, in New Zealand?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did they ask you, like, can you do this?
Marc:Are you going to be okay?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, they were very kind and thoughtful.
Guest:But I just went, and I went immediately into professional mode.
Guest:Okay, yeah.
Guest:I'm on set, and I'm doing my job, and I'm trying to do my best.
Guest:But then I go back to the hotel...
Guest:and suddenly now I'm alone on the other side of the world.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:And the grief was really intense.
Guest:And the isolation.
Guest:Yeah, the isolation.
Guest:So I'd just cry at night.
Guest:Did you call people?
Marc:It's a different time zone?
Guest:In a different time zone.
Guest:Yeah, it's strange.
Guest:It felt very lonely.
Marc:Yeah, being away is lonely anyways.
Guest:It's weird.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:So you had to go through all that on your own, really.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then in that process, then I started to realize that...
Guest:in order to deal with that grief, I started to put these emotional shock absorbers on, where you're trying to buffer yourself from that searing pain.
Guest:But then it also dims the highs of life.
Guest:And so suddenly you're quieting the highs and the lows, and you're living just in that middle zone.
Guest:I'd be interested to know if you've had any sort of similar experience in your own griefs.
Guest:But for me, that's what I experienced.
Guest:And then through different moments where I would kind of let the release valve go and suddenly I was processing, sort of metabolizing that pain, then the highs became higher.
Guest:The trees felt more vibrant when I'd hear them or see the color of the leaves or whatever it was.
Marc:So, like, you almost had to do, like, it was almost like a bipolar trip, you know, because, you know, in order to manage the pain, you had it, like, sort of, you know, kind of stuff down everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Interesting.
Guest:And there's different things that I did, you know.
Guest:Larry Moss actually told me about this process called dynamic breath work.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:That sounds like it would make me cry a lot.
Guest:yeah i've never cried harder man it's it's like it's other people call it somatic breath yeah yeah or you know there's a bunch of different terms for it but essentially it's just it's just full breathing yeah because i'm a i hold my breath i'm a breath holder yeah i do too you do yeah it's weird i have to remind myself take a deep breath isn't it weird when all of a sudden you just realize you're you're not breathing yeah yeah isn't it and the difference that you feel in your nervous system when you actually take a breath
Marc:Well, yeah, but like it just makes me want to cry just doing it.
Marc:Doesn't that feel good to you?
Guest:It did.
Guest:Yeah, see, like if I did that— A lot comes up.
Marc:Should we just cry right now?
Marc:I could.
Marc:Yeah, I could too.
Marc:But you—and how did you think that—but you do certainly, you know, I lost a partner, but losing a parent, there is a—
Marc:at some point you realize there's a natural, you know, even though it's tragic and horrible that, you know, you start to realize that loss is as human as, as anything else, birth, you know, death and all of it.
Marc:Did it make you a spiritual person?
Yeah.
Guest:I would say so, yeah.
Guest:It helped me to appreciate every living thing a little bit more, as well as my own life, and also realizing that I can keep my mother with me through the work that I do, through the way that I treat people, through the way that I...
Guest:interact with the world.
Marc:And she was a big personality too.
Guest:She was one of the most kind people you would ever meet.
Guest:So there's a thing where I go, I want to make her proud.
Guest:I want to be kind to everybody that I come into contact with and just carry her with me in that way.
Marc:It's like a protection from being a dick.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So she's protecting me from that.
Marc:Good.
Marc:That's how she looks over you.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Don't be a dick.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's the voice in my head all the time.
Marc:Is it?
Marc:No.
Marc:No, I mean, I understand what you're saying.
Marc:You know.
Marc:you do hold on to those things that you got from those people that help shape your life.
Marc:And that's what you kind of, for me, that's what I kind of realized when, if I feel too far away from the grief,
Marc:And I'm not a victim type of dude, but when I feel too far away from it, I kind of check back in with it.
Marc:Because it does mean that if I'm not respecting the gift of that person in my life, then who am I?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a really amazing way of putting that.
Marc:because because that's all that grief is it's love yeah you know it's just we love somebody so much and they're not here but that love is still there it's the love is still there yeah i talked to andrew garfield about that yeah yeah it's it's it's it's really heavy stuff it really is so but that you're 23 but this is and then do you do more theater you do right
Guest:Yeah, and that's the thing that really changed my career.
Marc:It was the Denzel thing, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because I saw you thank him.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I didn't know why.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And I did some reading, and you can just learn why.
Guest:Yeah, Google will tell us.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I did a, so that was, after I finished that, so my mom passed away, I went off and I shot that TV show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And while there's a huge audience of people that loved that show, I had a great time shooting it.
Guest:But artistically, I wasn't necessarily doing the things that I was.
Guest:I wasn't challenging you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And and so I finished and I then just decided to take a lot of time off.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I took about eight months where I just I just kept saying no to auditions.
Guest:I didn't go out for anything.
Marc:Were you processing grief still?
Guest:I think that's when the processing came in.
Guest:And there was a lot of days of me just not wanting to wake up in the morning.
Guest:It was just sleeping the day away.
Guest:And then eventually my agent called me and said that Denzel was doing Iceman Cometh on Broadway.
Guest:And the inspiration just shot out through me.
Guest:I knew that I needed to go after it with every fiber of my being.
Guest:And so I taped for this play and then I flew out to New York and I met for it and then I ended up doing this play.
Guest:And that changed my career and it changed my life.
Marc:Because of how it was received and it kind of put you on the map in a different way?
Marc:The real deal?
Guest:There's definitely that.
Guest:There's the perception that it comes from the outside.
Guest:But even more so, it was the things that I proved to myself.
Guest:The fear that I experienced in going on stage with Denzel Washington.
Guest:That dude is a monster dude.
Guest:He's a titan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's the godfather.
Guest:So to be on stage with him
Guest:And holding your own.
Guest:And yeah, try to hold my own as well as I could.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It forces, it's like playing tennis with the greatest tennis player.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It forces you to have to get better.
Guest:So I showed up to the first table read, and I memorized the entire four-hour play.
Guest:I'd spent months, you know, I gave some money to a friend of mine and I said, will you just help me just read this play every day?
Guest:So I showed up to the table reading and I just, I didn't even look at my script and I just wanted to, I wanted to come out with
Guest:I just wanted to throw all my chips on the table.
Marc:I don't know the play because I don't know.
Marc:It's O'Neill, right?
Marc:And it's like a big one.
Marc:And your part was like always there?
Marc:Like, I mean, are you in every scene type of deal?
Guest:Yeah, he's in most scenes.
Guest:And it's a part that Jeff Bridges actually played when he was quite young.
Guest:And I had an acting teacher tell me, the Iceman Cometh is...
Guest:like the Mount Everest of theater.
Guest:It's such a challenging play.
Guest:So you knew it all when you got there.
Guest:Yeah, I was terrified, so I just did everything.
Marc:Had you made choices around the character?
Marc:Were you ready at that first table read?
Guest:Yeah, which was interesting because Denzel, he talked about that, how if you memorized almost too much, you can get to a point where you're in a groove, and then you can't get out of that.
Guest:And so there were certain things that I had to unlearn from that time because I just was so terrified.
Marc:He told you that?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:During rehearsal?
Guest:During rehearsal, because he came in and he hadn't memorized the play.
Guest:He hadn't?
Guest:No.
Guest:And so then he was memorizing as he was going on.
Guest:And then I got to watch him do an entire rehearsal where he held a chair over his head.
Guest:Or he would just...
Guest:Basically try out every option.
Guest:Try the things that don't work so that way you know what does work.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:Another acting class.
Guest:It was really, yeah, the best acting class I could ever imagine.
Guest:Because you're watching him and that thing that I was talking about earlier, you're realizing he could do the same scene a hundred different ways and each one of them are brilliant.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it might just be a subtle difference, but it's newly alive.
Guest:It's got so much power.
Marc:But does he lock in eventually?
Guest:I mean, certain things maybe would be the same.
Guest:How many shows did you do?
Guest:I don't even know.
Guest:I'd have to look that up.
Guest:But it ran a long time.
Guest:Yeah, we went for, you know, I think it was six months in total with rehearsal and then into the play.
Marc:Okay, so you're doing this every night with him, and it's always surprising?
Marc:Always surprising.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Keeps you on your toes, huh?
Marc:It really does.
Marc:So this is what kind of puts you on the map.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then, what, Elvis came shortly after?
Marc:Well, then it was Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
Guest:I booked that while I was doing the play.
Guest:So I had Mondays off, and I put myself on tape for Quentin on Saturday or something.
Guest:How deep did you get into the Manson rabbit hole?
Guest:I mean, I went pretty deep once I finished the play and started prepping for that.
Guest:That's a dark road to go down.
Guest:Sure, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you get to know all the people.
Guest:You get to know all the people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then it was strange when we filmed on Cielo Drive, you know?
Marc:sure man walking up that street and we're filming in august and it's the same weather that was outside and that's trippy but that house is gone the house is gone because i've been to the house that was there it was some showrunner yeah at the nsco at the tape place or yeah yeah was there's a house up there in there there is yes big yeah yeah it's a showrunner guy is saget's friend yeah i went to a party there once yeah but they leveled the the other place they leveled it yeah yeah yeah they did
Marc:You put yourself on tape for Quentin, and that's what got you the thing?
Guest:Yeah, so that got me into the audition room with him.
Guest:So then he said, you know, I want you to fly out on your day off.
Guest:So I flew out.
Guest:I finished the play on Sunday, flew out to L.A., went and met with Quentin.
Guest:I had two other meetings that same day that I did not make it to because they take your phone away when you show up to Quentin's office.
Guest:That way you can't take a picture of the script.
Guest:I didn't even know what character I was auditioning for.
Marc:Oh, so how did you put yourself on tape?
Guest:They gave scenes from another scene in the film, from the western part of the film, you know, as Timothy Olyphant's character.
Guest:And so they wanted me to tape myself as the good guy and the bad guy.
Guest:So I did the scene twice, and I played one role, and then I played the other.
Guest:I put myself on tape for those.
Guest:But I had no time.
Guest:So I actually recorded the other lines and then just acted to a mark on the wall.
Guest:And that was the audition tape.
Guest:You can't tell when you watch the tape, really.
Guest:But that's how I recorded myself.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because I didn't have another actor with me.
Guest:I couldn't find somebody.
Guest:I had to go to the play that night.
Guest:So I said, you know, I'm just going to.
Guest:I'm just gonna throw my hat in the ring.
Guest:And I did and then it ended up being, it was actually James who ends up becoming Clem.
Guest:It was the two of us went and we were auditioning for that part in Quentin's office.
Guest:And then he had all the girls who were at the Manson clan and mixed and matched us from about nine in the morning until he gave me the part that day, later on that day.
Guest:And then I flew back to the theater
Marc:So you knew.
Marc:It's nice that he told you.
Guest:Yeah, most often you don't hear the same day.
Marc:Yeah, and sometimes you don't hear for like a week or two.
Marc:You were not here for months.
Marc:Yeah, you didn't get that.
Marc:Yeah, that went another way.
Marc:Well, that's great, man.
Marc:So that worked out.
Marc:That worked out all right.
Marc:I love that movie.
Marc:I'll watch it again.
Marc:And you get to kind of work with your heroes.
Marc:Well, certainly Brad.
Marc:And you met Leonardo, I imagine.
Guest:I met Leonardo.
Guest:Yeah, I got to have one moment where he screams at me in the car.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:He's drinking the margarita.
Guest:With that blender.
Guest:When he decided to drink out of the blender, I thought it was so brilliant.
Guest:I remember Quentin laughing hysterically.
Marc:Yeah, that was his choice?
Guest:Yeah, that was Leo.
Marc:Just out in the street with the blender.
Marc:Yeah, with the blender.
Marc:Hilarious.
Marc:That's funny, man.
Marc:And Brad was riffing some of those riffs.
Marc:So you shot that a lot to kind of get the riff going?
Guest:Yeah, it's very funny.
Marc:So you do that, and then Elvis comes?
Guest:Yeah, so I filmed Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
Guest:And I did this film with Jim Jarmusch called The Dead Don't Die.
Guest:How do I not know about that movie?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I've got to watch it.
Marc:I like that guy.
Guest:I love Jim.
Guest:I'd do anything for Jim.
Guest:And this film, I mean, it's Bill Murray and Adam Driver and Tilda Swinton.
Marc:I've got to watch that.
Marc:I'm way out of the loop, man.
Guest:yeah that's powerhouse actors they're they're great actors cool cast yeah what's the story it's sort of a zombie film oh there you go yeah where you don't you don't see a lot of the things that you would usually see in zombie films oh okay um yeah yeah yeah all right i'll check it out yeah i might i might have got i i don't remember but then i don't remember a lot of things i don't remember knowing about it
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you do that.
Guest:So I did that as well.
Guest:But then I took some time off again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the audition for Elvis came up.
Guest:So how'd that go?
Guest:It was a long process.
Guest:I got a call that Baz was making the film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I...
Guest:There was one of those moments where, you know, there's certain times where you just know that it's a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:This is the role of a lifetime.
Guest:If it goes poorly, I'll probably never work again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But if it goes well, this could be something very special.
Guest:If what goes poorly, the audition?
Marc:No, no.
Guest:The movie.
Guest:If making this.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:If you play Elvis.
Guest:And you fuck it up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's tough, man.
Marc:That's really bad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Stakes are high.
Guest:And there's so many ways in which it can go wrong.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:There's so many traps.
Marc:Because when you deal with known people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How are you going to, like, it's tricky, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because people know the guy.
Guest:Well, so the actual audition, the way that it worked was I... So, you know, I hear he's making the film.
Guest:I start preparing for it, you know, because I knew that I had some time because he still didn't know who was going to play Parker.
Guest:at that time.
Guest:So I knew that I had some time as he was trying to figure out who was going to play Parker.
Guest:And so I started just preparing as though I was going to play the part.
Guest:And I watched every documentary and read every book and started listening to every one of Elvis's songs in chronological order.
Guest:You read that Goldman book?
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Guest:And then listened to the archives of his interviews and everything.
Guest:And it just sort of felt like a detective, you know, trying to find the truth of whoever Elvis was as a human.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in that process, I learned certain things like Elvis' mom passed away when he was 23.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I was the exact same age I was when my mom died.
Guest:And so there was these certain things that suddenly made him a real person to me.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:So it wasn't so much that the relationship with your mother was similar to his, but the fact that you both lost your mothers gave you an emotional point of reference.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where I knew the truth of what he had experienced.
Guest:At the same age, yeah.
Guest:At the exact same age.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he was very close with his mom.
Guest:I was extremely close to my mom.
Guest:So there was things that... He was strangely close to his father.
Guest:Well, he was... One psychologist called him lethally enmeshed.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Oh, interesting.
Guest:They were incredibly... And because from a young age, he was oscillating between being the child and then being the caregiver.
Guest:So even at three years old, people would say that they would watch him run around like a lightning bolt to the house...
Guest:And then come up to his mother and pet her and say, can I get you anything?
Guest:Can I get you anything?
Guest:Do you want my order?
Guest:So he would care for his mother, but then he would be the child.
Guest:And there's that back and forth sort of thing.
Marc:Well, yeah, bordering on creepy.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:A little bit.
Guest:One could say.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you're doing all this prep.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how does the audition go?
Guest:Well, then I sent Baz a tape of me singing Unchained Melody.
Guest:And that resonated with him.
Guest:And then I went in to Denise, our casting director, and we read a couple scenes and sent him a tape of me doing the scenes.
Marc:And you're doing the accent, you're deep in.
Guest:Yeah, I'm doing my best to try to do everything.
Guest:And then he said, I want you to fly to New York and meet with me here.
Guest:So I went and met him at his house in New York.
Guest:And we just talked for hours.
Guest:And we talked for about three hours about life and Elvis and all these different things.
Guest:And then he said, you want to come in tomorrow and read some scenes from the script?
Guest:And maybe sing a song.
Guest:And so I came in the next day to his office in Brooklyn and we read and we just sat down with the script and just read.
Guest:And then I sang Don't Be Cruel or something like that.
Guest:And then he said, why don't you come in tomorrow and we'll read some more of the script and maybe sing Suspicious Minds.
Guest:So then that night I went home.
Guest:Different age.
Guest:I start practicing Suspicious Minds all night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was also not a singer before this, so I'm, you know, I just was trying to do my best to sing as closely as possible.
Guest:So that process went on for five months.
Guest:With you and Baz.
Guest:Of us just kind of, you know, and some, we may go a week.
Guest:without seeing each other and he'd say you want to come in and maybe try this scene yeah and so we just kept chipping away because there was a lot of questions of you know at that time I was 27 I'm 31 now um we there was a question of can I play older Elvis you know is that even possible but the one thing he knew you know at the from the get-go was like this guy kind of looks like him
Marc:I guess there was enough of a similarity.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because like, you know, you got to be close.
Marc:You got to be close enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So like, and I think it was, you know, then experience, you know, filling the gaps of your capacity in his mind, like, you know, by challenging with all these different songs, different ages.
Guest:Yeah, and different temperaments.
Guest:He was reminding me the other day of he wanted, in the rehearsal, he had me do this scene where I get angry at Parker around the time that he's trying to take my money and everything.
Guest:At that time, he had the idea of me pulling a gun on him, and so he gave me a hairbrush, and we're doing this.
Guest:And so I just came out with everything that I had.
Guest:A lifetime's worth.
Guest:A lifetime's worth of aggression was able to come out.
Guest:And that was something about Elvis that you learn when you read a lot about him is that when he had a temper,
Guest:his whole demeanor changed.
Guest:I mean, he could go from being very sweet and then having quite a fiery temper.
Marc:Yeah, all that energy that goes into that charisma going into anger.
Guest:Yeah, so that was, so we just tried to find, you know, he tried to push me in every way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then when did you know you got it?
Marc:I mean, how many months?
Guest:Six months?
Guest:It was five months of rehearsing and then a screen test.
Guest:And the day of the screen test, he changed everything.
Guest:i was supposed to sing three songs and he changed the three songs the day of so suddenly i'm singing songs i'd never practiced before but you know he changed the scenes yeah no i didn't even know i mean i knew the song right but he suddenly i wasn't supposed to sing tutti frutti but instead he let me sing little richard's tutti frutti and um and so i i thought the screen test went poorly
Guest:Why do you think he did that?
Guest:I think he was preparing me and also testing me to see how I would be under that type of pressure.
Guest:Ah, interesting.
Guest:Because I often say that Baz is the closest thing to a jazz musician and director I've ever seen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because the amount of preparation he puts in and everybody around him puts in is years worth of an incredible attention to detail when it comes to preparation.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's like the whole thing is like a hallucination almost.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I mean, I didn't know what to expect with the movie.
Marc:I went with my dad and his wife, and they'd already seen it twice in Albuquerque.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And I had no idea what to expect, you know, from the movie.
Marc:You know, I like Elvis as much as the next guy.
Marc:But, like, right from the get-go, the idea that it's shot from the point of view of, you know, this...
Marc:horrendous Colonel Parker, I thought was an interesting thing that the two points of view are Elvis and the Colonel, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how they sort of engage with each other throughout.
Marc:And then Colonel's this kind of horrendous man.
Marc:And I had, and all that, I loved all that carny shit and all that stuff.
Marc:But like, just right from the get-go, it becomes this all-encompassing experience.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, musically, visually, almost like a dream.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Right?
Mm-hmm.
Guest:Yeah, completely.
Guest:And that's, I mean, Baz talks a lot about how he didn't want to just make a film about the life of Elvis Presley.
Guest:He can't do it.
Guest:He often compares it to Amadeus because he loved that film so much.
Guest:And Amadeus isn't just about Mozart.
Guest:It's about
Guest:jealousy.
Guest:It's about why did you put, God, why did you put talent in that man when I've done everything right?
Guest:And so with this, it was an exploration of America in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the parallels between those times and today.
Guest:It was also about the cell and the soul.
Guest:Oh, interesting.
Guest:The idea of we have a lot of sort of carnival barkers in society these days in high places selling us all these things and taking away from the soul.
Marc:Oh, interesting.
Marc:And he informed you of all this?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:After you got the part?
Marc:Well, I mean, we talked from day one about these things.
Marc:Interesting.
Marc:It was this sort of movement through a life that brought in everything that America is through these different decades and through this guy who is uniquely and a celebrated American artist.
Marc:So you get the part after that screen test.
Marc:What's the phone call?
Guest:Well, the phone call was after a week of just me going back and forth thinking either I did not get the part,
Guest:after all that time after five months where i didn't audition for anything else during that time i threw all my eggs in this one basket so either i didn't get the part and i've got to be okay with that i've got to be able to say you know i got five months of getting to work with one of my favorite filmmakers yeah or i get the part and i got to go to work immediately because it's like training to play in the super bowl or something yeah um and so i a week goes by and then he called me and
Guest:Baz sort of has a flair for the dramatic.
Guest:So he sounded sort of downcast and he said, Austin, I just wanted to be the first one to call you and say, are you ready to fly, Mr. Presley?
Guest:And it felt really good.
Guest:And then immediately when we got off the phone, I called my dialect coach and singing coach and movement coach and everybody.
Guest:And I just said, let's get to work today.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you immediately just get to work with all these people that were helping you put together the audition.
Marc:Who's the dialect coach?
Guest:So I worked with a number of different people.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Tim Monick.
Guest:And then he started introducing me to other people.
Marc:You needed a team of dialect people to maintain Elvis.
Guest:There was a wonderful guy in New York named Eric Singer who helped me a lot.
Guest:Charmaine Gradwell was in Australia with me.
Guest:Well, that's right.
Marc:You shot it all in Australia right when COVID started.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then didn't Tom and Rita get COVID?
Guest:Tom sort of kicked it off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was the patient zero.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was, we were, I think that happened on a Friday possibly.
Guest:And we were meant to start shooting on Monday.
Marc:But that's like at the beginning, this must've been terrifying.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did everyone freak out?
Marc:How did that affect the set?
Marc:Where were you starting in the story?
Guest:We were... So the day that we found out, we were rehearsing the scene in which... It's in Vegas and Parker's leading...
Guest:Elvis around the Vegas showroom.
Guest:So all the girls are coming up and kissing me.
Guest:So that's what we're rehearsing.
Guest:We're walking around all these people.
Guest:And then the next morning, they said, don't come into the studio.
Guest:And I thought, what's going on?
Guest:I was supposed to be there at 9 in the morning or something.
Guest:So then I'm getting coffee and then Baz calls me and says, I just got to tell you something's going to come out.
Guest:But I think Tom has COVID.
Guest:And at that time, we didn't know what it was at all.
Guest:So there were no protocols in place?
Guest:Not at that point.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:No.
Guest:It was terrifying.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Because we didn't know how dangerous it was.
Marc:But I can't remember.
Marc:So the news wasn't out about COVID.
Marc:People hadn't started dying.
Guest:I don't know if people had started dying.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But maybe.
Guest:What I know is that it was becoming a concern.
Guest:Right.
Guest:somebody in our building had tested positive.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so it felt very close.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then, and then suddenly Tom tested positive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I, and I had been with him.
Guest:That's the day that he and I bonded the most was the day before he tested positive.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:He and I are whispering for inches away and we're, we're hugging each other and bonding and, you know, talking about the scene and everything.
Guest:And,
Guest:So then they quarantined me for two weeks.
Guest:But you didn't get it.
Guest:I didn't get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you ever get it?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I got it in London when I finished Elvis, and I was shooting something there.
Marc:Isn't that weird?
Marc:You get through the worst of it, then you get it, and you're like, it's weird.
Marc:It's kind of a relief in a fucked up way.
Marc:When you finally experience that?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, get it out of the way.
Guest:Yeah, you kind of get it out of the way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:okay so but how does that affect the set how do you make adjustments before knowing what protocols were how does the fucking studio react to that shit well what happened was we so we're all quarantined for two weeks for two weeks and then i thought okay we got two weeks to prep and then we'll go back to shooting yeah and then i didn't even turn on the news during those during the first part of those two weeks yeah and
Guest:And then I turned on the news about a week and a half in, and I saw what was happening.
Guest:And suddenly, that sort of post-apocalyptic feeling of people not having toilet paper in their grocery stores and stuff, I started seeing that.
Marc:And then people start dropping dead, man.
Marc:New York, like everyone went like that.
Guest:And then you start hearing about the deaths, and then suddenly it felt very real.
Guest:And then they called force majeure on our film.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:And then so that means they don't have to pay anybody.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That means that...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Corporate cards are shut down.
Guest:So they said, we're going to ship you back to L.A.
Guest:I've been preparing for a year at this point.
Marc:So it seemed like the project was going to die.
Guest:Seemed like it could die.
Guest:And so at that point, they were going to fly me back to L.A.
Guest:And I had the flight booked.
Guest:I started packing.
Guest:And then I thought, if I go back...
Guest:All the momentum that I have of preparation is going to be lost.
Guest:Because suddenly now I'll be going out to dinner in Los Angeles.
Marc:And I thought, I just... You're ready to lock in.
Marc:You're on set.
Marc:I'm locked in.
Guest:So why don't we just... So I stayed.
Guest:So I paid for my own apartment.
Guest:I stayed in Australia.
Guest:With Baz.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, we weren't living together.
Guest:Baz stayed in Australia.
Guest:But everybody else went back.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what did you do?
Guest:You just, like, you guys just kept you in it?
Guest:I just doubled down.
Guest:I just doubled down.
Guest:And I, you know, at that point, I had had so many months of working with incredible people.
Guest:Dialect coaches, senior coaches, karate instructor.
Marc:What was the plan with Bazzo?
Marc:You were just going to stay in the zone until he figured it out?
Marc:How to get it back on its feet?
Guest:We kind of needed to wait it out.
Guest:We didn't know what was going to happen.
Guest:At that time, we thought maybe it shuts down for a month or two.
Guest:Then at a certain point, they said it'll be at least six months.
Guest:It turned out to be six months that we shut down production.
Marc:And then they figured out how to mask and how they created a protocol.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Marc:And then you guys went back.
Marc:Yeah, so I just prepped during that time.
Marc:And you did sort of testing every three days, masks, that kind of shit?
Marc:Yeah, all that kind of stuff.
Marc:Zones of masks?
Marc:Yeah, we tested every day.
Marc:Every day?
Yeah.
Marc:Wow, man.
Marc:Yeah, and it's like, you know what I found, because we did two Leslie in the middle of that, was that it actually, because the only time you're not masked is when action is called, the intensity of things.
Guest:Is it not true?
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's like it elevates everything, because you're actually having the only maskless human experiences that you're allowed to have when you're doing the scene.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:That's when you're seeing a human face.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:In its entirety.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So it's like, well, I'll be honest with you.
Marc:I think you did a great job.
Marc:And the reason that, like, through the whole arc of the thing, and I love the movie.
Marc:You know, some people, like, I know musicians are like, well, you know, they didn't quite get it right.
Marc:It's like, who gives a fuck?
Marc:This is like, you know, this is not, you know, this is an experience of Elvis, of America.
Marc:I mean, I got all that.
Marc:But the fucked up thing that really kind of like, and I thought you did a great job, and I'm a critical.
Marc:You know, I'm a guy like, you know, he's going to fuck up Elvis.
Marc:How are you going to do Elvis?
Marc:I'm like, he's fucking doing Elvis, this guy.
Marc:He's really doing it.
Marc:He's living Elvis.
Marc:But the part that really, oddly, the part that really nailed it for me, I was already convinced, but it's like, I couldn't tell the difference between you and fat Elvis at the end.
Yeah.
Marc:I was like, is that the guy or is that Elvis?
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:I'm sure people have said that to you.
Marc:They have?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I'm like, what's going on?
Marc:But they were going back and forth between real footage, weren't they?
Guest:At the very end.
Guest:At the very end, it switches.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Good job, buddy.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Something on my mind, though.
Marc:I mean, you guys did the Golden Globes and Lisa Marie died the day after, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was within, I think, two days.
Marc:What?
Marc:How was the family to work with him?
Marc:Did you go to the funeral and stuff?
Marc:I did.
Marc:Because, I mean, did you feel like she wasn't well?
Guest:No, I didn't expect it at all.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:It was a complete shock.
Marc:It was horrible.
Marc:Horrible.
Marc:Horrible.
Guest:How's Priscilla doing?
Guest:I mean, the grief is strong, you know, but she's such a strong woman and she's been handling it in a way of being this woman who's got to hold the entire family together, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And as well as the legacy of Elvis and now of Lisa Marie and
Guest:The things that she's had to go through in her life are unfathomable.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Are you guys close now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, they feel that they open their hearts like family to me.
Guest:They believed in the movie.
Guest:And you can tell that the love was there.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And they weren't involved in the making of the film.
Yeah.
Guest:It was only after they saw it.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:That's the part that really touched me a lot.
Guest:Really?
Guest:We were so scared when they were going to watch the film because they didn't see anything.
Guest:They didn't read the scripts before.
Guest:Priscilla read a very early draft, but they didn't know what the film was going to be.
Guest:And so I really thought they could watch it and not like it.
Guest:And I hadn't seen the film at that point, so I let them watch it first.
Guest:So they watched it, and it meant a lot to them.
Guest:So the first time I met Lisa Marie, we felt as though we knew each other from before.
Guest:Because I'd done these scenes as her father saying goodbye to little Lisa Marie.
Guest:Suddenly now I'm looking at actual adult Lisa Marie.
Guest:And we just both got tears in our eyes and she gave me the biggest hug.
Guest:And she said, I want to go talk to you.
Guest:And so we just talked and talked and talked for hours.
Guest:And she took me up into his bedroom and we just sat on his bed and just talked.
Guest:At Graceland?
Guest:At Graceland.
Guest:And it was, you know, I mean, those are the things that are the biggest gift of this whole thing for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Moments like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I never felt so close to somebody so quickly as I did with Lisa Marie.
Guest:Well, you're like, yeah.
Marc:I mean, it must have been a trip for her.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, because you were, you know, I think the experience, because it was so...
Marc:authentic and well-conceived and emotionally correct, that it must have been just a complete almost mindfuck for her to have almost like to get back into that emotional groove of when she was like a kid, right?
Guest:I can't imagine what that experience must be like.
Guest:What a trip, man.
Guest:Especially with all the misconceptions around her dad, you know, around that life and either idolizing him as somebody who's larger than a human or thought of as a Halloween costume.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He ceases to be human in a lot of people's lives.
Guest:Of course, he's a myth.
Guest:And that's why, you know, having those moments where she told me the stories of him just being dad.
Guest:Yeah, that's great.
Guest:And that's the most special thing.
Marc:Yeah, what a great thing to have in your life to have experienced.
Marc:I mean, the weird thing about Grace on this, I went there when I was younger.
Marc:And it's not that huge a place.
Marc:No, it's a home.
Marc:It is.
Marc:Like, you know, you're like, this is it.
Marc:The mansion's like.
Marc:And then he's got that giant shed out back for the awards, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:The award shed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, great talking to you, man.
Marc:Good work.
Marc:Good talking to you, too.
Marc:And good luck on the big night.
Marc:Thank you so much.
Marc:Yeah, pal.
Marc:Thank you.
Thank you.
Marc:There we go.
Marc:We covered it, man.
Marc:That was fun.
Marc:I think I pulled him out of the accent a bit.
Marc:I think I made him aware of it, and he got back to who he is.
Marc:Elvis is streaming on HBO Max if you want to watch it.
Marc:Hang out for a second, people.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:If you want to hear more stories about Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, you can go directly to the source.
Marc:Go listen to episode 1239 with Quentin Tarantino, where he talks all about the movie, including a story that has to do with me.
Guest:Early on, I investigated the idea of Jennifer Lawrence.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Playing Squeaky.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so she came down to the house to read the script because I wasn't letting it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So she came down to the house and I just gave her the script.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Go in my living room or go outside by the pool and read it.
Guest:And so she read it.
Guest:And then afterwards, we talked about it a little bit.
Guest:And she was interested in doing, but then it didn't work out.
Guest:But she's a very nice person.
Guest:And I respect her as an actress.
Guest:But she actually, she goes, can I just make a recommendation, all right, for somebody to cast?
Guest:And I go, oh, yeah, sure.
Guest:You know that agent guy that talks to Rick at the beginning?
Guest:Why don't you cast Marc Maron for that?
Guest:I think he would be really, really good.
Guest:I was like...
Guest:Well, I'm actually kind of thinking that Marvin Schwarz should be significantly older than Marc Maron, but I actually see what you mean.
Guest:If I wasn't basing it on that older a fellow, yeah, he could do a good job with that part.
Marc:Oh, that is very nice.
Marc:That's episode 1239, and it's available in the free feed wherever you're listening to this episode.
Marc:If you want all WTF episodes ad-free, sign up for WTF Plus by clicking the link in the episode description or going to WTFPod.com and clicking WTF Plus.
Marc:For full Marin subscribers, we've got another episode of Good Morning Geniuses, our look back at morning sedition.
Marc:This time I'm joined in the garage by Dan Pashman, host of the Sporkful podcast and creator of Strange Pasta Shapes.
Marc:We'll post that tomorrow.
Marc:On Thursday, the last of our Oscar nominee conversations with Hong Chao, who is nominated for Best Supporting Actress for The Whale.
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:This is a thing I did on the guitar.
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guitar solo
Guest:Boomer lives.
Guest:Monkey and La Fonda.
Guest:Cat angels, cat angels, cat angels everywhere.
Guest:That was close, man.
Guest:That was close.
Guest:I only screwed up once.