Episode 1409 - Marc Summers

Episode 1409 • Released February 13, 2023 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening what is happening how's it going where are we at i just i'm back from new york i'm punchy man i'm tired i've been tired i've been i've been running pretty hard

00:00:25Marc:people doing the promotional stuff for the HBO special from bleak to dark, which premiered Saturday night on HBO and HBO max.

00:00:35Marc:I guess it'll be on HBO max forever or however long it takes them to dump some content to make space.

00:00:42Marc:I don't know how it works when the cloud fills up over at HBO max, but for now it's there.

00:00:48Marc:It's also running on HBO proper.

00:00:50Marc:I don't know about international stuff.

00:00:52Marc:I don't know how that works.

00:00:54Marc:Uh, there,

00:00:55Marc:It's out of my hands.

00:00:57Marc:I'm sorry.

00:00:58Marc:Make a trip to the United States to a hotel that has HBO if you don't get it in your country.

00:01:03Marc:I imagine it'll eventually be there, but I appreciate all the feedback.

00:01:08Marc:I appreciate it.

00:01:10Marc:Let me, I'll tell you what's going on, but let me, let me, how are you?

00:01:13Marc:Huh?

00:01:15Marc:Are you all right?

00:01:16Marc:So today on the show, interesting.

00:01:19Marc:Kind of a curveball, not unlike Wayne Brady in the sense that, well, these all make sense, but you don't think about them as guests here.

00:01:28Marc:And you never know here.

00:01:29Marc:You just never know what's going to happen here.

00:01:32Marc:But Mark Summers is on the show.

00:01:34Marc:Now, he...

00:01:36Marc:I missed him because I'm a little too old to have been watching Double Dare on Nickelodeon.

00:01:43Marc:But I remember Unwrapped on the Food Network.

00:01:45Marc:But it's not as simple as that.

00:01:48Marc:Why Mark Summers?

00:01:49Marc:I'll tell you why.

00:01:51Marc:It turns out that his background makes him a pretty ideal WTF guest.

00:01:57Marc:He's a Jewish kid who wanted to get into entertainment, tried his hand at stand-up, but was a magician initially, worked at the comedy store back in the day, had numerous personal setbacks and health challenges that he had to overcome.

00:02:10Marc:So it just made sense for him to be on the show.

00:02:12Marc:I had no idea.

00:02:14Marc:And he grew up with my optometrist, who's a jazz trumpet player.

00:02:19Marc:Elliot Kane.

00:02:21Marc:Mark Summers grew up in Indianapolis.

00:02:24Marc:I don't want to spoil anything.

00:02:26Marc:Spoiler alert.

00:02:28Marc:Mark Summers grew up with my optometrist, the jazz trumpet playing Elliot Kane, who's got an office over in Highland Park with a hand-painted sign.

00:02:37Marc:Yeah.

00:02:38Marc:Small world.

00:02:39Marc:What the fuck was that about?

00:02:42Marc:You'll hear it.

00:02:44Marc:But yeah, he's on the show.

00:02:45Marc:So listen, people, listen to me.

00:02:48Marc:We asked our WTF Plus subscribers to sign up some friends in January, and we said the person who got the most referrals would get a shout out on the show and a gift from us.

00:02:58Marc:Well, we did have one overwhelming winner, and we already spoke to her and thanked her.

00:03:04Marc:She said she'd prefer not to get a personal shout out on the show here, but if we could instead give a memorial shout out to her late dog Frankie, which of course we can.

00:03:15Marc:And I'll do it here.

00:03:16Marc:I'll do it now.

00:03:17Marc:Are you ready?

00:03:18Marc:Here we go.

00:03:19Marc:Frankie lives.

00:03:22Marc:Dog angels everywhere.

00:03:24Marc:With Frankie.

00:03:27Marc:And speaking of full Marin subscribers, I'll be doing another Ask Mark Anything next week.

00:03:33Marc:If you have a question you want me to answer, click on the link in the episode description.

00:03:38Marc:How's that sound to you?

00:03:40Marc:So look, I'm back from New York.

00:03:43Marc:Again, thank you for all the feedback.

00:03:45Marc:I'm glad people are enjoying this special.

00:03:48Marc:I believe it looks great.

00:03:50Marc:And New York was kind of a whirlwind, but I was happy to be there.

00:03:54Marc:So I had to do Jimmy Fallon.

00:03:56Marc:I like Jimmy Fallon.

00:03:57Marc:I like doing his show better than any of the other late night shows because he engages.

00:04:04Marc:And he actually really engages.

00:04:06Marc:You know, I was on with Paul Rudd because I saw Jimmy in the hallway and we were just talking with Paul Rudd and he was like just being, you know, Jimmy and hanging out.

00:04:14Marc:We're having some laughs and talking.

00:04:17Marc:But when he gets out there, he's locked in, man.

00:04:20Marc:You know, you're looking at a live wire there.

00:04:23Marc:But they had asked me if I wanted to play with the Roots, you know, to play out to commercial, which is literally less than a minute of guitar playing.

00:04:35Marc:And I was like, yeah, I'll try that.

00:04:38Marc:Of course I'd like to play with the Roots.

00:04:39Marc:How often am I going to get an opportunity to play with the Roots?

00:04:42Marc:So now all I'm thinking about is playing with the Roots.

00:04:45Marc:I've got bits to do.

00:04:47Marc:I've got to worry about following Paul Rudd with all the slapstick and the snot and whatever bits.

00:04:53Marc:But that didn't matter.

00:04:54Marc:But I had some good bits.

00:04:55Marc:They were good enough and they were funny.

00:04:57Marc:But all he's thinking about is playing with the Roots.

00:05:00Marc:And in the hallway, you know, I met with the Roots' guy.

00:05:03Marc:And I'm like, well, let's just do like a basic blues shuffle or something.

00:05:07Marc:And he played something in the Roots office.

00:05:09Marc:He's like this.

00:05:10Marc:And I'm like, what key is that?

00:05:11Marc:And he's like, F. I'm like, no, I don't want to do F. Let's do A. He's like, whatever you want.

00:05:15Marc:A's great.

00:05:16Marc:And then the bass player was there.

00:05:17Marc:They got me the guitar.

00:05:19Marc:And he was like, you know, Quest will probably, you know, count us in.

00:05:23Marc:And I'm like, okay, I think I can handle that.

00:05:25Marc:And Captain Kirk Douglas, who I know, he's like, it'll be great.

00:05:29Marc:And I'm like, I don't know, man.

00:05:30Marc:And all I'm thinking about is I got to land that first lick.

00:05:33Marc:I got to land that first lick because I don't have that much time.

00:05:36Marc:And I'm going to walk over there and run over there, get the guitar, and just pop that first lick.

00:05:41Marc:And it's got to hit, man.

00:05:44Marc:And I told Jimmy, I said, Jimmy, I'm going to play with the roots, right?

00:05:49Marc:I'm like, yeah, but I'm going to choke, dude.

00:05:50Marc:I'm probably going to choke.

00:05:51Marc:He's like, yeah, you probably are.

00:05:53Marc:But we'll just do it again.

00:05:54Marc:I'm like, no, don't say that.

00:05:56Marc:So I get out there.

00:05:57Marc:They bring me out.

00:05:58Marc:I sit with Jimmy in my John Varvato suit that I bought in the hallucinatory state after my colonoscopy, as some of you remember.

00:06:05Marc:I think the suit looked okay.

00:06:07Marc:And I got a pick in my pocket.

00:06:08Marc:I'm just thinking, like, I got to get the pick out.

00:06:10Marc:I got to get it in my hand.

00:06:12Marc:When Jimmy says I can go over there.

00:06:13Marc:So we do the jokes.

00:06:14Marc:And they all go well.

00:06:15Marc:And it was fine.

00:06:16Marc:It was fun.

00:06:17Marc:And I got laughs.

00:06:18Marc:It was good.

00:06:19Marc:Everything was good.

00:06:19Marc:But I'm just like, I got to get that.

00:06:21Marc:I got to nail that first lick.

00:06:23Marc:And then I put my hand in my pocket while I'm talking to Jimmy, I think, and I pull the pick out so I got it in my hand.

00:06:29Marc:And after we do it, he's like, so you want to go over there and play with the Roots, play this into commercial?

00:06:34Marc:I'm like, yeah, I'm going to try.

00:06:35Marc:I can try.

00:06:36Marc:And I kind of ran over there like a dork, strapped on the guitar, had my pick in my hand, looked at the guitar, got my hands on it.

00:06:44Marc:And they were already sort of playing a chord.

00:06:46Marc:They were kind of doing something.

00:06:49Marc:And I knew in my mind that

00:06:50Marc:that Quest was going to count us in, but I just like got the guitar on and I slammed out that first lick and, and Quest followed me into it and just got on the groove and we were in it and was like, I know that thing didn't look like a long time, but it was a real thrill for me, a real honor for me to play with the roots and,

00:07:12Marc:and to be locked in with him because I'm looking at Quest, you know, and then I do the lick.

00:07:18Marc:I look at him before I play, and I hit the lick, and he looks at me, looks at the guys, and he lays out the groove, and then I play for a while, and I'm still locked in with Quest because I see him call out to the band because we're in the A, and he says four, and I heard him, and I saw him do it, so I was able to land on the four,

00:07:39Marc:And it was it was sweet.

00:07:42Marc:And I played longer than they, you know, they kind of.

00:07:44Marc:And I think Jimmy was impressed because I got it.

00:07:46Marc:I got it on that.

00:07:47Marc:I didn't fuck it up.

00:07:48Marc:But that was probably the high point was playing with the roots for a minute.

00:07:55Marc:That was more exciting than being in my hotel room alone trying to figure out if the hotel TV got HBO.

00:08:02Marc:How was that going to be exciting?

00:08:04Marc:Why do I end up by myself watching my specials?

00:08:07Marc:I do sometimes on premiere night because I'm doing press or whatever.

00:08:12Marc:I don't know.

00:08:13Marc:I just remember my first TV spot when I did Evening at the Improv.

00:08:17Marc:I'd flown out from New York.

00:08:19Marc:I got a hotel down in Santa Monica because the club was down there.

00:08:23Marc:I didn't rent a car.

00:08:25Marc:I probably got a super shuttle to the hotel.

00:08:28Marc:And I think I had my girlfriend, who was Kim at the time, who became my first wife.

00:08:34Marc:And I went to Stussy.

00:08:37Marc:And I bought a shirt that I never wore again.

00:08:39Marc:I tried to wear it, but it was not my style of shirt.

00:08:41Marc:But I thought, I just, what is it with me buying things day of and having never worn them and going on television?

00:08:48Marc:But the thing of this story is that after I did my first evening of the improv, I took a city bus with Kim back to the hotel.

00:08:59Marc:And there's something I just, I don't know.

00:09:02Marc:I have to stay grounded.

00:09:04Marc:I have to stay grounded in reality.

00:09:08Marc:But I was alone in my hotel room over at the Ludlow.

00:09:11Marc:I watched the special.

00:09:13Marc:I turned it off.

00:09:14Marc:I saw, I looked at some action on Twitter and then I packed my bags and I went to sleep.

00:09:21Marc:But apparently, I'm getting good feedback.

00:09:24Marc:My dad's wife called me.

00:09:26Marc:He seems fine with it.

00:09:27Marc:I just talked to him.

00:09:28Marc:He's okay.

00:09:28Marc:My mother said she liked it.

00:09:30Marc:I don't know what her boyfriend thought.

00:09:33Marc:It's a little awkward because my dad's wife's very Christian.

00:09:36Marc:Her whole family's very Christian.

00:09:38Marc:And I'm just doing my special.

00:09:40Marc:The first 20 minutes, I'm basically the Antichrist.

00:09:43Marc:I'm the Jewish Antichrist.

00:09:46Marc:But she's always...

00:09:48Marc:Very excited, and the feedback's been fine.

00:09:51Marc:It's been great.

00:09:53Marc:I'll tell you what I'm looking forward to.

00:09:54Marc:All I'm thinking about, not unlike thinking about the first lick when I was playing with the Roots.

00:10:03Marc:I've got the equipment.

00:10:05Marc:I've got what I need to begin brining.

00:10:08Marc:I'm going to start making kraut.

00:10:11Marc:This is the phase of early vegetarianism I'm in right now.

00:10:14Marc:And again, I'm not committing to a way of life.

00:10:17Marc:I'm just doing something for a while to see if I enjoy it and it makes me feel better.

00:10:22Marc:OK, that's the that's the thing.

00:10:24Marc:But I got a ceramic crock.

00:10:26Marc:I got some weights.

00:10:28Marc:I got a ceramic lid and I'm going to start making my own kraut.

00:10:32Marc:That's going to happen this week, people.

00:10:34Marc:So you're going to get updates on my fermenting process.

00:10:39Marc:I don't know if I'm going to see much happening, but we'll see how it goes.

00:10:42Marc:I didn't realize it was so fucking easy.

00:10:45Marc:Seriously, you just need salt and cabbage.

00:10:48Marc:Anyway, the HBO special is on.

00:10:52Marc:Go watch it if you haven't watched it.

00:10:53Marc:I'm proud of it.

00:10:55Marc:Mark Summers is here.

00:10:56Marc:Now, Mark, as I said, he's the guy some of you grew up watching.

00:11:02Marc:on Double Dare, on Nickelodeon.

00:11:05Marc:That seems to be where a whole generation knows him from.

00:11:08Marc:He's got a new podcast, Mark Summers Unwraps.

00:11:11Marc:It's now available wherever you get your podcasts.

00:11:15Marc:And this turned out to be a pretty fun interview for me because I found a zone with him as a guy who came up, you know, I don't know if any of you have seen

00:11:30Marc:The segment he did on Jay Leno's Tonight Show with Burt Reynolds.

00:11:34Marc:But maybe pause the podcast...

00:11:38Marc:Yeah, do this.

00:11:39Marc:Listen to me.

00:11:40Marc:Look up Mark Summers, Burt Reynolds, M-A-R-C-S-U-M-M-E-R-S and Burt Reynolds and watch that and then come back and start the interview because we get into it.

00:11:54Marc:And I had never seen it.

00:11:55Marc:And apparently the entire world had seen it.

00:11:57Marc:Brendan sent it to me and it was like, yeah, how have you not seen that?

00:12:01Marc:It's pretty spectacular.

00:12:03Marc:And it is the through line of our talk.

00:12:05Marc:So go watch that.

00:12:08Marc:Go Google or YouTube, Mark Summers, Burt Reynolds, and then come back and listen to me talking to Mark Summers, which I will do now.

00:12:29Marc:It's sort of like, you know, you work your whole life and whatever, however you end up.

00:12:33Marc:I don't know.

00:12:33Marc:Are you living the dream?

00:12:35No.

00:12:35Guest:It's not the dream I expected, but I'm having a great time, and I've been very fortunate.

00:12:40Guest:I got a lot of lucky little breaks, but me like everybody else, when I came out here in 1973, I thought I was taking Johnny's place.

00:12:48Guest:Did you?

00:12:49Guest:Yeah, that's why I moved out.

00:12:51Guest:So you're born in Indianapolis?

00:12:52Guest:1951, Indianapolis, Indiana, yep.

00:12:55Guest:So how'd the Jews get to Indianapolis?

00:12:58Guest:They made the wrong turn somewhere, man.

00:13:00Guest:My dad's parents were from Hungary, and they got out before all the crazy stuff.

00:13:05Guest:And my mom's parents were from Russia and Romania.

00:13:08Guest:But did they go there to farm?

00:13:12Guest:They opened a liquor store in Indianapolis.

00:13:14Guest:And then at one time, my dad had the largest grocery store in the state of Indiana, Berkey Supermarket.

00:13:19Marc:Oh, look at that.

00:13:20Marc:So, yeah, because one of my great-grandfathers ended up down south when they sort of needed people after the Civil War and was a grocer.

00:13:28Marc:It's just sort of interesting.

00:13:30Marc:And they were originally from Poland or somewhere.

00:13:33Marc:Do you know, my optometrist is an Indianapolis Jew who's the trumpet player, the jazz trumpet player.

00:13:38Marc:Oh, not Elliot?

00:13:39Marc:Yeah, Elliot.

00:13:39Guest:We were the same confirmation class together.

00:13:43Guest:Come on.

00:13:43Guest:Well, yeah, Elliot coming forever.

00:13:45Guest:He's the best guy ever.

00:13:46Guest:He and me and Greg Reddish and Bob Pearlstein, yeah, we were a group.

00:13:49Guest:We hung out, man.

00:13:50Marc:I'd go see him because I lived in Highland Park.

00:13:52Marc:So I'd go to the—and he'd be like, hey, man, how you doing, man?

00:13:55Marc:Anyway, he's my optometrist.

00:13:57Marc:Most jive-ass Indiana.

00:13:59Marc:Yeah, and he—

00:14:00Marc:And he's got jazz records in the waiting room.

00:14:03Marc:He plays gigs all the time.

00:14:04Marc:He plays good.

00:14:05Marc:Yeah.

00:14:05Marc:He's like the real deal.

00:14:07Marc:He really is.

00:14:07Marc:And he talks the talk and he lives it.

00:14:09Guest:He doesn't want to be an optometrist, man.

00:14:11Guest:He wants to play gigs all the time.

00:14:14Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:14:15Marc:But I guess he has to do it.

00:14:16Marc:He's got a young wife and a kid.

00:14:18Marc:He does now.

00:14:18Marc:I haven't seen him in a while.

00:14:19Guest:Yeah.

00:14:20Guest:You're in touch with him?

00:14:21Guest:Every now and then.

00:14:22Guest:I'll get an email or I'll get a text or something from him.

00:14:24Guest:Go stop by the office.

00:14:26Guest:It's 10 minutes from here.

00:14:27Guest:It's so funny that you know Elliot Kaye.

00:14:28Guest:Do you know the office?

00:14:29Guest:No, I've never been over there.

00:14:30Guest:That's hysterical.

00:14:31Marc:It's right on York in Highland Park.

00:14:33Guest:Surprise him, yeah.

00:14:34Marc:That would be hilarious.

00:14:36Marc:You should go over there.

00:14:37Marc:It's like kind of the happening little area, and he's still got—he's got this—I think he's been there before it got hip, right?

00:14:42Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:14:42Marc:He was there a long time before it got hip.

00:14:44Marc:That's right, because he's got the hand-painted sign.

00:14:46Marc:Oh, man.

00:14:46Marc:Like, you know, that optometrist is not—it's like old school.

00:14:51Marc:But what a trip, man.

00:14:52Marc:So you knew—so there was a big Jewish community growing up?

00:14:54Marc:Well, yeah.

00:14:55Marc:I mean—

00:14:56Marc:For Indiana, I guess it was, you know.

00:14:58Marc:Well, I mean, I grew up in Albuquerque, man.

00:15:00Marc:Oh, okay.

00:15:01Marc:But still, there was like 500 families when we got there.

00:15:03Guest:Yeah.

00:15:04Guest:I mean, my opening line in my act used to be I grew up in Indiana.

00:15:06Guest:I went to an unusual congregation beneath Hoosier.

00:15:09Guest:And, you know, my bar mitzvah was the Moose Hall in Indianapolis and all that stuff.

00:15:13Guest:Was it?

00:15:13Guest:Yeah.

00:15:14Guest:And it's just—it was weird.

00:15:17Guest:It was weird.

00:15:18Guest:I mean, you felt the anti-Semitism.

00:15:20Marc:You did?

00:15:20Marc:Oh, yeah, sure.

00:15:21Marc:But, I mean, how many families are we talking?

00:15:23Marc:How big was the congregation, you think?

00:15:25I don't—

00:15:25Marc:I don't remember how many families.

00:15:26Marc:Because there's definitely Midwestern Jews, Minneapolis, Indianapolis.

00:15:30Marc:I mean, there's- St.

00:15:30Marc:Louis has a ton as well.

00:15:32Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:15:32Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:33Marc:Oklahoma, you know, Tim Blake Nelson, the actor, Oklahoma Jew.

00:15:38Guest:Oklahoma.

00:15:39Guest:Yeah.

00:15:39Guest:We used to have, you drive through Terre Haute, Indiana, where Indiana State is, and there was the Berkowitz Luggage Shop.

00:15:45Guest:And I'm like, well, how did they end up in freaking Terre Haute, Indiana?

00:15:48Guest:You always wonder about this.

00:15:50Marc:Yeah.

00:15:50Marc:What's your real name?

00:15:51Marc:Berkowitz.

00:15:52Marc:So you didn't know them?

00:15:53Marc:No, didn't know them at all.

00:15:54Marc:Yeah.

00:15:54Marc:So some more Berkowitzes.

00:15:55Marc:Well, Tim Blake Nielsen told me once that there was a service provided, you know, that they spread Jews out.

00:16:01Marc:No.

00:16:02Marc:Immigrants would come to avoid, you know, the mass killing or the sort of ghettoization.

00:16:11Marc:Like they didn't want all the Jews in one place in case, you know, the shit went down.

00:16:16Marc:So they kind of found Jews places everywhere.

00:16:19Marc:And spread them out.

00:16:20Marc:I had no idea.

00:16:21Marc:I forget what the service is called, and I can't remember why, because I think it was before World War II.

00:16:26Marc:Before World War II?

00:16:26Marc:Yeah, I think it was, yeah.

00:16:28Marc:And so, because his people have been there for a while, they're oil people.

00:16:32Marc:But they were aware that, you know, if you get everybody in one place, it's easier to kill them.

00:16:37Guest:Oh, my God.

00:16:37Guest:What a theory, you know?

00:16:39Guest:Well, it's true.

00:16:39Guest:It's true.

00:16:40Guest:It works, you know, right?

00:16:41Guest:It has for centuries.

00:16:42Marc:So what are you doing in Indiana?

00:16:44Marc:So did you go to—well, you know Elliot came from Hebrew school?

00:16:47Guest:Yeah, we went to the same confirmation class, yeah, at our synagogue, yeah.

00:16:51Marc:So that's a long time.

00:16:52Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:54Guest:We grew up together, basically.

00:16:55Guest:We went to Sunday school together.

00:16:56Guest:How long was he playing trumpet?

00:16:59Guest:For as long as I know.

00:17:00Guest:No kidding.

00:17:00Guest:Yeah.

00:17:01Guest:And he and a friend of ours, Bob Perlstein, plays fiddle.

00:17:04Guest:And I mean, I had a lot of very talented.

00:17:06Guest:My brother was Marvin Hamlisch's conductor for 10 years, was on the road, played for Liza for years.

00:17:11Guest:Holy shit.

00:17:12Guest:You're just like this scrappy comic guy.

00:17:15Guest:I know.

00:17:16Guest:You did what you could, I guess.

00:17:17Guest:You know, the best I could to make a living.

00:17:20Marc:But, like, was that the plan from early in life?

00:17:22Guest:I grew up watching The Ed Sullivan Show and said, okay, I'd see, you know, Jack Carter or Alan King.

00:17:28Guest:And I said, you know, that's cool.

00:17:31Guest:How do I get to do that?

00:17:32Marc:Well, Alan King was the guy who, you know, was the first kind of middle class.

00:17:36Guest:Yes.

00:17:37Marc:Out of the, you know, the Lower East Side Jewish guy.

00:17:40Marc:Dressed very dapper.

00:17:42Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:42Guest:You know, smoking a cigar.

00:17:43Guest:There was something very cool about him.

00:17:45Guest:Sure, yeah.

00:17:45Guest:I loved his act.

00:17:47Guest:And so- Survived by his wife.

00:17:49Guest:The best routine ever.

00:17:50Guest:And so the question is, how do you get into show business in Indianapolis?

00:17:55Guest:And so I found Johnny Carson on Who Do You Trust?

00:17:59Guest:I would come home from school and at 3.30 on the ABC affiliate, I turn on Who Do You Trust?

00:18:03Guest:And there was Johnny Carson.

00:18:04Guest:And I became obsessed and found out that he started as a magician.

00:18:07Guest:I thought, well, if Johnny started as a magician, maybe I can start as a magician.

00:18:11Marc:Sure.

00:18:11Marc:So you were obsessed with Johnny before he was even host of the Tonight Show?

00:18:14Guest:Oh, hell yeah.

00:18:14Guest:Absolutely.

00:18:15Marc:He just had a thing, that guy.

00:18:16Guest:I'll tell you an interesting story.

00:18:17Guest:He's a Nebraska guy.

00:18:19Guest:Yeah, as Cabot is.

00:18:21Guest:And so I started taking up magic.

00:18:24Guest:There was a magic club at our junior high and started doing magic.

00:18:28Guest:And before I knew it, I was doing birthday parties.

00:18:30Guest:Right.

00:18:30Guest:And you were what, 15, 14?

00:18:32Guest:I was like 13.

00:18:34Guest:Yeah.

00:18:34Guest:And there was a guy who came in.

00:18:35Guest:You were that kid.

00:18:36Guest:Yeah, I was that kid.

00:18:37Guest:I was that pain in the ass kid.

00:18:39Guest:And so there was a guy who came in town, he called himself Dante, Dante Magic Set.

00:18:43Guest:And I found out, did research, that he was an insurance salesman who liked magic and came up with his Dante Magic Set.

00:18:49Guest:So somehow I found his number.

00:18:50Guest:He lived in Rochester, New York.

00:18:52Yeah.

00:18:52Guest:There was no Nexus Lexus or no computers, nothing.

00:18:54Guest:And so I call his house and I say, hey, my name is Mark Berkowitz.

00:18:59Guest:I'm a magician.

00:19:00Guest:Can I be the spokesperson for the Dante Magic set?

00:19:03Guest:And he said, hey, kid, you can do whatever you want, but I'm not paying you.

00:19:05Guest:And I said, great.

00:19:06Guest:So he said, do you want me to send you some kits?

00:19:09Guest:I went, yeah.

00:19:10Guest:So he sent them to me.

00:19:11Guest:And now I'm calling.

00:19:11Guest:Back in the day, there were children's shows on every station locally.

00:19:15Guest:And I call up every station.

00:19:16Guest:I said, my name is Mark Berkowitz.

00:19:17Guest:I'm the national spokesperson for the Dante Magic Show.

00:19:19Guest:Can I come on a new show?

00:19:20Marc:It was a box with several tricks in it?

00:19:23Marc:Yeah, it was tricks in it.

00:19:24Guest:And so I started getting on all these kid shows.

00:19:26Guest:And I did this one called Popeye and Janie at the end of my first appearance.

00:19:29Guest:She said, do you have any more tricks?

00:19:30Guest:And I said, yeah.

00:19:31Guest:So I became a regular at like age 14 on a local kid show.

00:19:35Guest:And my mom used to go nuts because she'd have to pick me up at 3.30 from the junior high and schlep me to the other side.

00:19:40Guest:of town.

00:19:40Marc:And you're moving magic kits for Dante?

00:19:42Guest:Yeah.

00:19:42Guest:That's what I was trying to do.

00:19:43Guest:Yeah.

00:19:44Guest:And you probably did, but you got nothing?

00:19:46Guest:Not a penny.

00:19:47Guest:Not a penny.

00:19:47Marc:But isn't it ironic or not ironic?

00:19:51Marc:Serendipitous that your biggest career platform to date was a kid's show?

00:19:56Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:19:57Marc:Isn't it bizarre?

00:19:57Marc:Huh?

00:19:58Marc:Wow.

00:19:58Guest:Well, and, you know, my mom was from Toledo, Ohio.

00:20:01Guest:And so I grew up with Soupy Sales on WXYZ in Detroit.

00:20:05Guest:So I would have breakfast with Soupy and then I would have lunch with Soupy.

00:20:08Guest:And I was obsessed with Soupy.

00:20:09Guest:And so I – I was a little – I'm younger than you, but like I knew Soupy Sales.

00:20:15Guest:He was amazing.

00:20:16Guest:He was.

00:20:17Guest:And so –

00:20:17Guest:In 1976, I become a regular at the comedy store, and Soupy is headlining the main room.

00:20:22Guest:In 76?

00:20:23Guest:76.

00:20:24Guest:And I had a book that I had bought that he had written 100 years ago, and I went backstage trembling and had him sign it, and we became best friends.

00:20:34Guest:Every TV show I've ever done, he's been on as a guest in some form or fashion, and we were inseparable.

00:20:42Guest:Yeah.

00:20:42Guest:He was kind of hip.

00:20:43Guest:He was way ahead of his time.

00:20:45Guest:Yeah.

00:20:45Guest:But Suby's problem was if he made $100, he'd spend $300.

00:20:48Guest:Sure.

00:20:48Guest:And so he was always sort of wanting for dough.

00:20:51Marc:But so it was show business from early on?

00:20:55Guest:Yeah.

00:20:55Guest:So we had the 1967 International Magic Convention in Indianapolis.

00:21:01Guest:God knows why.

00:21:01Guest:And I'm walking down the street and this guy stops us and he goes, hey, how do I learn magic?

00:21:07Guest:And I said, why do you want to know?

00:21:08Guest:And he says, because I want to learn.

00:21:09Guest:I said, what do you do for a living?

00:21:10Guest:He said, I'm a disc jockey.

00:21:11Guest:I said, here's the deal.

00:21:12Guest:You get me on the radio, I'll teach you magic.

00:21:14Guest:Yeah.

00:21:14Guest:So the next thing I know.

00:21:15Guest:Nothing better than magic on the radio.

00:21:17Guest:The kind of act I did, it would have worked.

00:21:20Guest:And next thing I know, I'm doing weekends, WBMP in Elwood, Indiana.

00:21:25Guest:No magic, just talking.

00:21:26Guest:Just talking, 6 to 11.

00:21:27Guest:How old are you?

00:21:28Guest:I'm 15.

00:21:29Guest:I'm playing like Montevani and 101 Strings and Sinatra and Tony Bennett.

00:21:33Guest:So you just got a playlist.

00:21:34Guest:I got a playlist and I played it.

00:21:35Marc:Were you talking?

00:21:36Guest:I was talking, but I wasn't allowed to be Mark Berkowitz because the station manager was anti-Semitic, so I became Mark Vaughn.

00:21:42Guest:Vaughn.

00:21:43Guest:Where I got that name, I have no idea.

00:21:45Guest:I'm a German fella.

00:21:47Guest:The guy who was driving me up lost his job, so now my parents were going to schlep me up, so I lost the job.

00:21:53Guest:Guess who took my place on WBMP?

00:21:55Guest:Who?

00:21:55Guest:Dave Letterman.

00:21:56Guest:Come on.

00:21:57Guest:Dave replaced me.

00:21:58Guest:As a jackie.

00:21:59Marc:Yeah.

00:21:59Marc:Why is it in some of your press it says you were going to be a rabbi?

00:22:02Marc:Was that just a passing thing?

00:22:04Guest:After I was bar mitzvahed, I was on stage.

00:22:06Guest:And I thought, wow, this is like performing.

00:22:08Guest:This is like the coolest thing in the world.

00:22:10Guest:And so I thought, okay, maybe this is what I'll do.

00:22:13Guest:And so I became obsessed with it.

00:22:14Guest:Had nothing to do with God.

00:22:16Guest:No, no.

00:22:16Guest:No, it was all about these two Jews going to bar.

00:22:19Guest:And so I was doing Jackie Mason before Jackie Mason.

00:22:21Guest:Right.

00:22:22Guest:And I was confused because then I started to get into radio and TV and theater in junior high and high school.

00:22:28Guest:And Rabbi Weissman, who was the assistant rabbi on our show.

00:22:31Guest:He had a Weissman, huh?

00:22:32Guest:Yeah, on our synagogue.

00:22:34Guest:I rode my bike over there and I said, can I talk to you?

00:22:36Guest:He said, sure.

00:22:37Guest:About what?

00:22:37Guest:I knew he had majored in radio and TV before he became a rabbi.

00:22:40Guest:And I said, I thought I wanted to be a rabbi, but now I think I may want to perform.

00:22:45Guest:And he said, well, why do you want to be a rabbi?

00:22:46Guest:And I said, because I want to help people.

00:22:48Guest:And he said, well, here's the deal.

00:22:50Guest:As a rabbi, you can help a small amount a lot.

00:22:52Guest:But in show business, you can help a lot of people a little.

00:22:55Guest:So I chose the showbiz route.

00:22:56Guest:But it's so funny.

00:22:57Marc:He was a failed show business guy.

00:22:59Marc:Yeah.

00:23:00Marc:Most people are.

00:23:01Marc:I know.

00:23:02Marc:You know?

00:23:02Marc:All right, so you get this.

00:23:04Marc:So you didn't know Letterman.

00:23:06Marc:Oh, I knew Dave.

00:23:06Marc:We played racquetball together.

00:23:08Marc:But before the radio gig, you knew him?

00:23:09Marc:No, I didn't know.

00:23:10Marc:I didn't meet him until the comedy store days.

00:23:12Marc:Okay, so you lose your DJ job.

00:23:15Marc:Yes.

00:23:15Marc:So when did you move down here?

00:23:16Guest:How old were you?

00:23:17Guest:I came out in 1973.

00:23:18Guest:I went to Graham Junior College with Andy Kaufman and Paul.

00:23:21Guest:What?

00:23:22Guest:Yeah.

00:23:23Guest:Graham Junior College?

00:23:23Marc:Where the hell is that?

00:23:24Marc:In Boston.

00:23:25Marc:Where in Boston?

00:23:26Marc:Kenmore Square.

00:23:27Marc:I went to BU.

00:23:28Marc:I know Ken Moore Square.

00:23:29Marc:Come on.

00:23:30Marc:When were you at BU?

00:23:32Marc:82 through 86.

00:23:33Marc:So long after you.

00:23:34Marc:But I mean, I know Ken Moore Square.

00:23:36Marc:Is that college gone?

00:23:37Marc:It disappeared soon after.

00:23:39Guest:It started in the 50s and it went out of business.

00:23:41Guest:Okay.

00:23:41Guest:So Kaufman was there?

00:23:42Guest:So Paul Fusco, who created ALF, Bertu Brau, who created Sally Jesse Raphael and Jerry Springer and Andy Kaufman, all were in the same arena as me.

00:23:52Guest:It was like a school for misfits.

00:23:53Guest:None of us wanted to go to college.

00:23:54Guest:We just wanted to play showbiz.

00:23:55Marc:And you had parents with a little money.

00:23:57Marc:Yeah.

00:23:57Guest:So, you know, it worked out.

00:23:59Guest:Yeah.

00:23:59Guest:And so I'll tell you a story about Andy.

00:24:01Guest:Andy had graduated a year before he got there.

00:24:05Guest:Yeah.

00:24:05Guest:And so I knew him through other people.

00:24:10Guest:What does that mean?

00:24:12Guest:He...

00:24:12Guest:I was working at the Sheraton Hotel.

00:24:15Guest:And I was working the front desk and Steve Allen was staying there.

00:24:19Guest:And Andy said he knew Steve Allen.

00:24:23Guest:And I got into a disagreement with Andy at the front desk trying to get a hold of Steve Allen and all this kind of stuff.

00:24:27Guest:So Andy and I always were like... Did he know Steve Allen?

00:24:30No.

00:24:30Guest:He got up there, but Andy could do anything almost, right?

00:24:34Guest:And so Andy got permission to come back to our school and shoot the original version of Andy's Fun House.

00:24:41Guest:So I'm directing it.

00:24:42Guest:I'm supposed to direct the show.

00:24:43Guest:I've been selected to do it.

00:24:44Guest:And there's a million kids crawling around.

00:24:46Guest:Andy has no control over anything.

00:24:49Guest:And the next thing I look on the site, here's this beautiful white cyclorama that costs a fortune.

00:24:52Guest:And there's kids with chocolate cake putting their hands in their cake.

00:24:56Guest:Yeah.

00:24:56Guest:And I said, Andy, for the love of God, we're going to start now or I'm out of here.

00:24:59Guest:And he said, well, I can't do that.

00:25:00Guest:So I walked off the freaking set.

00:25:02Guest:Oh, wow.

00:25:02Guest:And Ron Seidel, who was our TV teacher, ended up doing it.

00:25:05Guest:And then, you know, I would run into Andy out here at the improv.

00:25:07Guest:And some nights he'd say, hey, Mark, how are you?

00:25:09Guest:I'm fine.

00:25:09Guest:And we'd sit and have dinner.

00:25:10Guest:And then I'd come in the next night and he'd say...

00:25:12Guest:Do we know each other?

00:25:15Guest:Have we met?

00:25:15Guest:I go, you know, Andy, I don't want to play this game.

00:25:17Guest:He was nuts.

00:25:18Guest:He was nuts.

00:25:19Guest:And I just I never got it.

00:25:22Guest:OK, I'm going to tell you, I never thought he was funny.

00:25:24Guest:Quite honestly, I thought his career was over with when, you know, the whole thing happened on SNL and all that stuff.

00:25:30Guest:I don't think he was going to be able to crawl his way back.

00:25:32Guest:Yeah.

00:25:33Guest:When he did the wrestling stuff, I thought it was totally stupid.

00:25:35Guest:And there were people, I just went to Bud Friedman's memorial service.

00:25:38Marc:You did?

00:25:38Guest:Yeah.

00:25:38Guest:And everybody was standing up talking about Andy like he was Jesus.

00:25:41Guest:So I don't know.

00:25:43Marc:No, I mean, I think that special he did at Carnegie Hall is really something.

00:25:47Guest:Yeah, it was amazing that he pulled off what he pulled off.

00:25:49Marc:Yeah.

00:25:50Marc:Like, I don't know that I always got it either.

00:25:53Marc:Yeah.

00:25:54Marc:But, you know, he did carve out a space and people have tried to occupy that space to, you know, some better than others.

00:26:01Marc:But I think that the space he carved out was important to comedy.

00:26:05Guest:I guess at that time it was, and it kind of worked.

00:26:07Guest:The sad part about it is I stay in touch with his family from time to time.

00:26:10Marc:You do?

00:26:11Guest:They wanted to, yes, nephews.

00:26:13Guest:Yeah.

00:26:13Guest:And he was gifted with a star in the Walk of Fame, but they can't raise enough money to pay for the damn thing.

00:26:20Marc:Wait, where's Zamuda?

00:26:21Marc:Yeah, where's Zamuda, right?

00:26:23Marc:Where's Zamuda when you need him with this?

00:26:25Guest:Stealing the other character, and yet, you know, don't get me started.

00:26:28Marc:He's sitting in Reno as Tony.

00:26:32Guest:I'm at the big room and watching Tony Clifton, and I'm sitting next to Will Schreiner, and Will Schreiner says, you know who that is, don't you?

00:26:39Guest:And I said, who?

00:26:39Guest:He goes, that's Andy.

00:26:40Guest:I said, Andy who?

00:26:41Guest:He goes, that's Andy Kaufman.

00:26:41Guest:I went, there's no way that's Andy.

00:26:43Guest:I didn't buy it initially.

00:26:45Marc:Yeah.

00:26:45Marc:Oh, the original one.

00:26:47Marc:Yeah.

00:26:48Marc:I mean, Zamuda was doing it long after Andy's dead.

00:26:50Marc:Oh, I know that.

00:26:50Marc:Still doing it.

00:26:51Marc:And there's still people saying, like, you know, Andy's back.

00:26:53Marc:Andy's still alive, yeah.

00:26:55Marc:There's nobody that gives a shit anymore.

00:26:57Marc:Nobody knows who anybody is anymore.

00:26:58Marc:That's true.

00:26:59Marc:All right, so you come down here, like, when?

00:27:01Marc:After college.

00:27:02Marc:Yeah, so I came out here in 73.

00:27:04Marc:You're starry-eyed and you're like, I'm going to fucking L.A.

00:27:06Marc:Right.

00:27:07Marc:I just lost a job on Andy's show in college.

00:27:10Marc:Yeah, exactly.

00:27:11Guest:And so I got a job as a page at CBS Television City.

00:27:13Guest:But what's your intention?

00:27:14Guest:Had you done stand-up?

00:27:15Guest:I was a professional magician.

00:27:17Guest:That was it?

00:27:17Guest:That was it.

00:27:18Guest:Were you good?

00:27:19Guest:I was really good.

00:27:20Guest:Sight of hand?

00:27:20Guest:Yeah, I was good.

00:27:21Guest:Small stuff.

00:27:21Guest:I was playing the Magic Castle.

00:27:22Marc:Any live animals?

00:27:23Marc:Live animals?

00:27:24Guest:No, I didn't do that stuff.

00:27:25Guest:All right.

00:27:25Marc:And so I was playing the castle and figuring- I know a guy at the castle does close up magic, pulls a rabbit out of his head, out of his hair.

00:27:34Marc:Are you serious?

00:27:35Marc:Or maybe it's a bird.

00:27:36Marc:I don't know.

00:27:37Marc:Something, some animal.

00:27:38Marc:Andrew Goldenhurst.

00:27:39Marc:You know Andrew Goldenhurst?

00:27:39Marc:I've heard the name.

00:27:40Marc:I don't know him.

00:27:41Marc:He's something, yeah.

00:27:42Marc:All right, go ahead.

00:27:42Guest:So you're at the magic castle.

00:27:44Guest:I'm at the magic castle and-

00:27:45Guest:I, uh, there was a place called the laugh stop in Newport beach and I was opening for Gallagher.

00:27:51Guest:Okay.

00:27:52Guest:And Gallagher says to me, he says to me, I'm still Berkowitz.

00:27:55Guest:He goes, Hey Berkowitz, you're an asshole.

00:27:57Guest:And I said, why is that?

00:27:58Guest:He goes, uh, how much they paying you to open for me?

00:28:00Guest:And I said, 150 bucks.

00:28:01Guest:He goes, yeah, that's why you're an asshole.

00:28:02Guest:I said, why?

00:28:03Guest:And he says, cause you do those stupid card tricks and those ropes and things.

00:28:07Guest:If you just did standup, you'd get 300 bucks.

00:28:09Guest:And I went, really?

00:28:09Guest:He goes, yeah.

00:28:10Guest:He said, you're a novelty act.

00:28:11Guest:The guy with the hammer said.

00:28:13Guest:Right.

00:28:14Guest:Yeah.

00:28:15Guest:But it was actually Gallagher who got me to stop doing magic and start doing stand-up.

00:28:20Guest:Was that Gallagher pre-hammer?

00:28:23Guest:Yeah, I think so.

00:28:24Guest:Right about that time.

00:28:26Guest:And so I started doing stand-up and became a regular store at 76.

00:28:30Guest:I was doing warm-ups on.

00:28:32Marc:So you wait.

00:28:32Marc:So you dropped the magic.

00:28:34Marc:So you already had one-liners in place for the magic?

00:28:37Marc:Yeah, I was doing comedy and magic.

00:28:39Guest:It was Carl Ballantyne.

00:28:40Marc:What can I tell you?

00:28:41Marc:Well, that's good.

00:28:43Marc:I mean, you're thinking ahead, right?

00:28:44Marc:So you got to go audition for Mitzi or what?

00:28:47Marc:Yeah.

00:28:47Marc:In 76?

00:28:48Marc:76.

00:28:49Guest:And at that time, there were only 25 or 30 people standing in line.

00:28:51Guest:Now there's 25,000 people who stand in line.

00:28:54Guest:Oh, to be auditioning?

00:28:55Guest:Yeah, on Monday nights.

00:28:56Guest:Well, she's dead.

00:28:57Marc:I know.

00:28:58Marc:Nobody had the heart to tell her.

00:28:59Marc:Right.

00:28:59Marc:For a long time.

00:29:01Marc:For a long time.

00:29:01Marc:But because, like, you know, the guys who were there in 73, I mean, that's really the prime time.

00:29:06Marc:I was there.

00:29:07Guest:Dave and Robin and Jay and Shanling.

00:29:10Guest:I had just become a regular.

00:29:12Guest:And Dave calls me and says, we're doing a meeting at my house.

00:29:15Guest:You need to show up.

00:29:16Marc:For the strikers?

00:29:18Guest:First meeting of the strike.

00:29:18Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:29:19Guest:So I'm shitting my pants because I'm thinking, well, I just became a regular.

00:29:22Guest:I don't know what to do.

00:29:23Guest:So I didn't show up.

00:29:24Marc:Right.

00:29:24Guest:And then Dave calls me and says, you're either with us or against us.

00:29:27Guest:Wow.

00:29:27Guest:Jesus.

00:29:28Guest:So next night I'm out there with a picket sign.

00:29:30Marc:So it's Letterman and Andreessen and Lon out, right?

00:29:33Guest:Yeah.

00:29:34Guest:Yeah.

00:29:34Guest:Was Mark – I don't know if Mark was so much – it was all the guys who were regulars.

00:29:38Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:29:38Guest:And then there was the thing about Shanley crossed the line and people didn't want to talk to him.

00:29:41Guest:It was nuts.

00:29:42Guest:Yeah.

00:29:42Marc:And Argus crossed the line because he lived in Mitzi's vagina.

00:29:46Marc:As did many other people.

00:29:47Guest:But, you know, you want to list?

00:29:50Marc:I do.

00:29:50Marc:You are the only two people who didn't get to that spot.

00:29:53Marc:By the time I got there, she was, you know, pretty, pretty old.

00:29:57Guest:Did you go to her service?

00:29:59Marc:no because when polly got up he started pointing out people you screwed my mother you screwed i mean it was like the most insane thing i've ever seen in my entire life but uh i've grown to appreciate polly and i'm friends with peter and i love the place i'm there every night are you you really oh i love it i haven't been in there in years i uh i you know i work out there every night it's my home club and i love the history of it and i and i love uh that we can make look dude there's only a few people that i could show that to that would give a shit oh my how did you get that

00:30:26Marc:Well, Binder did the doc, and we were over there, and we were shooting in her office, and it was on the floor, her driver's license.

00:30:32Marc:So I picked it up, and I had to tell Peter I had it.

00:30:35Marc:Oh, my.

00:30:35Marc:And he's like, okay, you can have it, but I might need it.

00:30:38Marc:And I'm like, no problem.

00:30:39Guest:Oh, my God.

00:30:40Guest:Yeah.

00:30:40Guest:You know, look, one of the biggest thrills I get is drive by once a year and see my name on the wall.

00:30:44Guest:Okay, I mean, that's still— Still up there?

00:30:46Guest:Did they move it?

00:30:47Guest:I don't know if they might have been by in the last couple of years, but maybe they did.

00:30:50Guest:Okay, so you auditioned for Mitzi.

00:30:52Guest:How'd that go?

00:30:52Guest:So I became a regular on the first thing.

00:30:55Guest:And so I was a regular for about three years.

00:30:58Marc:Were you living at the place?

00:30:59Marc:You're living out here?

00:31:00Guest:No, I was living at the place.

00:31:02Guest:I was with a guy by the name of Ellis Levinson, Glenn Super, Mark Sheffer.

00:31:06Marc:Glenn Super, I remember.

00:31:07Guest:Yeah.

00:31:08Guest:Died way too young.

00:31:09Guest:Not too long ago.

00:31:11Guest:It's been about 10 years now.

00:31:13Guest:Wow.

00:31:13Guest:Costate cancer.

00:31:13Guest:No shit.

00:31:14Guest:And so, yeah, I was there.

00:31:16Guest:I lived there.

00:31:17Guest:It's great.

00:31:18Guest:And the best part would be at 1 o'clock in the morning, you'd go to, there was a place called Theodore's and

00:31:22Guest:You know, every comic, you know, Jay and every day we'd all sit there till three in the morning.

00:31:27Guest:Yeah.

00:31:27Guest:And as I was going home, my wife was getting up going to work.

00:31:29Guest:You know, I mean, I was living that life.

00:31:31Guest:So you're married already?

00:31:31Guest:Yeah.

00:31:32Guest:I've been married 48 years now.

00:31:33Guest:Yeah.

00:31:33Guest:She put up with all this shit.

00:31:34Guest:She did.

00:31:35Guest:You know what?

00:31:36Guest:I was having a hard time making a living.

00:31:37Guest:The warmup I hated.

00:31:39Guest:As a magician?

00:31:40Guest:Yeah.

00:31:41Guest:Imagine that.

00:31:42Guest:And so I got a chance to write on a show called Crosswits for Ralph Edwards Productions.

00:31:47Guest:I remember that, yeah.

00:31:48Guest:But I had this gig booked at the Houseward Show in Chicago doing magic at a pots and pans place.

00:31:56Guest:Yeah.

00:31:56Guest:And they were going to pay me $1,000 for two days.

00:31:58Guest:Well, that was like dying to go into heaven back then.

00:31:59Guest:Yeah.

00:32:00Guest:And so I get this gig writing on Crosswits, and the guy said, you start on Monday.

00:32:04Guest:And I go, well, I got a problem.

00:32:05Guest:He said, what's that?

00:32:06Guest:I said, I'm going to be in Chicago doing the houseware show.

00:32:08Guest:And he goes, what do you mean?

00:32:10Guest:And I said, well, I'm a magician, and that's how I've made my living, and I'm going to be doing tricks to bring people to the table so they can sell their pots and pans.

00:32:16Guest:And he said, you need to make a decision.

00:32:18Guest:You're either a performer.

00:32:19Guest:You're either with us.

00:32:21Guest:Yes, or you're against us.

00:32:22Guest:Or you're a writer.

00:32:23Guest:And it was $600 a week he was offering me, which I'd never seen in my life.

00:32:27Guest:And I went home to my wife and I said, I got a tough decision to make.

00:32:30Guest:So what's that?

00:32:30Guest:I said, I know you want to buy a house.

00:32:32Guest:And I get that.

00:32:34Guest:We could do that if I take this gig for $600 a week.

00:32:37Guest:But I've got this thing in Chicago.

00:32:40Guest:And she said to me at the time, you always talk about doing stand-up and you always talk about going to the comedy store, but you haven't gone.

00:32:47Guest:Here's the deal.

00:32:48Guest:don't take that writing job.

00:32:50Guest:But if you don't work your ass off doing stand-up and writing and going into that stuff, you're in big trouble.

00:32:57Guest:And so I said, I'll do it.

00:32:59Guest:So I called up, Bruce Bellin was the guy's name, and I said, Bruce, I ain't taking the gig, have a nice life.

00:33:03Guest:And I started my... And you went to Chicago and did the housework?

00:33:06Guest:I did the housework show and came back and started writing and started putting my act together.

00:33:10Guest:Jokes, yeah.

00:33:11Guest:Writing jokes with Glenn and with Ellis and a friend of mine, Lee Maddox.

00:33:15Guest:So you were there too when Freddie died and everything?

00:33:17Guest:Yeah.

00:33:18Guest:Yeah, that was nuts.

00:33:19Guest:I mean, that was the thing that you figured this is a career that's going to explode.

00:33:22Guest:Yeah.

00:33:23Guest:And, you know, all the crazy stories with him.

00:33:24Guest:And it just was, yeah, well, you know, Alan could tell you that story better than I can.

00:33:28Marc:No, I told you.

00:33:29Marc:I talked to Alan.

00:33:30Marc:Yeah.

00:33:30Marc:But so who else is at the store at that time in 76?

00:33:34Marc:What, you know, what are you seeing everywhere?

00:33:36Marc:What am I seeing?

00:33:36Marc:So Dave's there.

00:33:37Guest:Jay's still there.

00:33:38Guest:Jay's there like crazy.

00:33:40Guest:Pryor.

00:33:41Guest:Pryor would come in.

00:33:42Guest:Yeah.

00:33:43Guest:And Tua's stuff.

00:33:44Guest:That was magical.

00:33:44Guest:I mean, going to watch him, you know, three nights a week was unbelievable.

00:33:48Guest:Charlie.

00:33:49Guest:Fleischer.

00:33:49Guest:Fleischer was there.

00:33:50Guest:And then he got, you know.

00:33:52Guest:What?

00:33:54Guest:The cartoon thing.

00:33:55Guest:Roger Rabbit.

00:33:55Guest:He got Roger Rabbit.

00:33:56Guest:Too big for the room.

00:33:57Guest:Oh, man.

00:33:57Guest:Absolutely.

00:33:58Guest:Yeah.

00:33:59Guest:Was Binder there?

00:34:00Guest:Binder was there.

00:34:01Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:34:02Guest:And Argus, who's still there.

00:34:03Marc:I see Argus all the time.

00:34:05Marc:I see him every night.

00:34:06Marc:Every night.

00:34:06Marc:It's crazy.

00:34:07Marc:And I think he's wearing the same suit.

00:34:11Marc:You think I'm kidding?

00:34:12Guest:No, I, you know, I can't believe.

00:34:13Guest:I just remember one of the lines from this joke.

00:34:14Guest:I'm from Oklahoma.

00:34:16Guest:Our street signs say mosey and don't mosey.

00:34:18Guest:I remember that line from his head.

00:34:19Marc:He might throw that in occasionally.

00:34:21Guest:Jesus.

00:34:22Guest:You know, and Bursky did say one thing when I listened to that podcast with you was that he said, you know, most people looked at the comedy store as a career and he knew it was just a stepping stone.

00:34:31Guest:And I think he needed to know that, that it wasn't the be all kind of thing.

00:34:35Marc:Well, that's what Jay told Binder.

00:34:37Marc:He says, you're working at the store to not work there

00:34:40Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:34:41Guest:You know, and I auditioned for the Merv Griffin show, you know, 24 times, never got on the show.

00:34:46Guest:Okay.

00:34:47Guest:I'll tell you a funny story.

00:34:48Guest:I never told the story.

00:34:49Guest:A friend of mine, Bert Dubrow, was a producer on the Mike Douglas show.

00:34:51Guest:Yeah.

00:34:52Guest:And he calls me up.

00:34:52Guest:I had just done a videotape at the Magic Castle in 1974.

00:34:57Guest:I mean, it cost me a fortune.

00:34:58Guest:And I was working as an idea man on truth or consequences the last year Bob Barker hosted it.

00:35:02Guest:Pitching?

00:35:03Guest:Yeah.

00:35:04Guest:And Barker came and introduced me on this tape.

00:35:08Guest:Yeah.

00:35:08Guest:So I put this tape together, sent it to Bertrand Brown.

00:35:10Guest:Can you do me a favor?

00:35:11Marc:Yeah.

00:35:11Guest:You want to see it.

00:35:12Guest:I know you want to see it.

00:35:13Marc:But I mean, you had to ask Bob Barker to help you out.

00:35:16Guest:Yeah, I did.

00:35:16Marc:I did.

00:35:17Guest:But I had the balls

00:35:18Guest:to ask him.

00:35:18Guest:Would you shoot it in the studio?

00:35:20Guest:No.

00:35:21Guest:He came to the Magic Castle and did an introduction.

00:35:24Guest:And did such a good introduction, I didn't know who was going to walk out because it's certainly going to have been me after all the nice stuff he said.

00:35:29Guest:So I did that, sent it to Bert, and Bert says, I'm going to book you on the Douglas show.

00:35:35Guest:I said, that's amazing.

00:35:36Guest:He said, I'm going to get David Brenner to introduce you.

00:35:39Guest:Oh, my God.

00:35:39Guest:It's amazing.

00:35:40Guest:So I said, when?

00:35:41Guest:He goes, I'll call you.

00:35:42Guest:So a week goes by, he doesn't call me.

00:35:43Guest:Second week goes by, he doesn't call me.

00:35:44Guest:Third week doesn't call me.

00:35:45Guest:And I keep calling, and I don't get any phone calls back.

00:35:48Guest:So I see that Brenner's going to be on The Tonight Show.

00:35:51Guest:And this is long before 9-11.

00:35:52Guest:So I walk into NBC.

00:35:53Guest:You could walk into NBC, okay?

00:35:55Guest:And I walk backstage at The Tonight Show, and I knock on Brenner's door.

00:35:58Guest:And he goes, yeah.

00:35:59Guest:And I said, hi, my name is Mark Berkowitz, and I'm a stand-up comic, and you're going to introduce me.

00:36:04Guest:on the Mike Douglas show.

00:36:05Guest:He goes, first of all, I have no idea who the hell you are.

00:36:07Guest:He said, you do stand-up?

00:36:08Guest:He said, for who, your Bubbies and Zadies?

00:36:10Guest:I'd never heard of you.

00:36:11Guest:So he said, I got to do a set.

00:36:14Guest:Can you stick around after the show?

00:36:15Guest:I'll talk to you.

00:36:15Guest:So I said, yeah.

00:36:16Guest:So he did that show.

00:36:17Guest:I came back, knocked on the door.

00:36:18Guest:He said, yeah, first of all, I have no idea who you are, so I would never introduce you.

00:36:21Guest:And he says, the reason Bertu Browson calling you back is he got fired.

00:36:25Guest:That's why he's not calling you back.

00:36:27Guest:And so I had to find out from Brenner that my friend got fired.

00:36:30Guest:And, you know, and so, you know, welcome to show business 101.

00:36:32Marc:All these promises and, you know, nothing was happening.

00:36:35Marc:So, but you're doing, but are you like back then in 76?

00:36:38Marc:So there's no real comedy clubs.

00:36:39Marc:Are you doing the opening from bands and that kind of shit?

00:36:42Guest:I opened for the Bay City Rollers at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium.

00:36:45Guest:There you go.

00:36:45Guest:Yeah, that was a pretty amazing gig.

00:36:47Marc:S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y.

00:36:49Marc:Night.

00:36:50Guest:Yeah.

00:36:50Guest:And they had the whole green M&M things and the Boone Farm Apple Watch backstage and all that stuff.

00:36:55Guest:And the guy said to me, you're doing 12 minutes.

00:36:57Guest:If you don't do the full 12 minutes, I ain't paying you.

00:36:59Guest:And so, you know, I went out there and said, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the, you know, the comedy and magic of Mark Berkowitz.

00:37:03Guest:You did magic?

00:37:04Guest:Yeah, I did magic for the Bay City Road.

00:37:05Guest:Well, David Copperfield, who's a friend, had done magic in New York.

00:37:08Guest:And I called David and he said it was the worst experience he'd ever had.

00:37:11Guest:How are you going to do close-up magic at an arena?

00:37:13Guest:Yeah.

00:37:13Guest:No, I wasn't doing close-up, man.

00:37:14Guest:I was doing, like, you know, kind of big stagey stuff.

00:37:16Guest:Do you have a lady in a box?

00:37:17Guest:But I brought people up from the stage.

00:37:19Guest:Okay.

00:37:19Guest:But I said, ladies and gentlemen, you know, the Bayside Rolls are about to come out.

00:37:23Guest:And they go, yay.

00:37:23Guest:And I said, but, you know, first I need somebody to come up on stage.

00:37:26Guest:Get the f*** off the stage.

00:37:27Guest:You know, screaming at me.

00:37:28Guest:I'm out there and I think I'm doing, you know, I've been out there for 20 minutes.

00:37:31Guest:I look over and the guy shows me like three minutes.

00:37:34Guest:I got to do another nine minutes.

00:37:36Guest:So 12 minutes was like hell.

00:37:38Guest:And I remember being escorted off stage by Steve Rissmiller from Wolf Rissmiller Concert.

00:37:43Guest:He said to me, you're the first act they didn't throw something at.

00:37:46Marc:Oh, good.

00:37:47Marc:So you held their attention in a way.

00:37:49Marc:Enough.

00:37:51Marc:So you're really kind of hammering away.

00:37:53Marc:And the dream was to be Johnny Carson.

00:37:56Marc:Yeah.

00:37:56Marc:And you never did Carson.

00:37:57Marc:I never did.

00:37:58Marc:I did Jay, but I didn't do Johnny.

00:37:59Marc:And that Jay was not great.

00:38:03LAUGHTER

00:38:03Marc:It's never gone away.

00:38:04Marc:Well, you know, it's pretty amazing because as a comic, I know right when you fucked up.

00:38:11Guest:Where did you think I fucked up?

00:38:12Guest:I didn't fuck up at all.

00:38:13Guest:He fucked up.

00:38:14Marc:No, he was out of his mind.

00:38:16Marc:No doubt.

00:38:17Marc:No doubt.

00:38:18Marc:I thought it was amazing, but what happened was...

00:38:20Marc:Is that being a fan of people.

00:38:22Marc:Right.

00:38:23Marc:And watching that show.

00:38:25Marc:Yeah.

00:38:25Marc:And being out there as this guy that no one really knows.

00:38:28Marc:Right.

00:38:29Marc:Is that, you know, you assume this familiarity.

00:38:32Marc:But ultimately, the only thing that the thing that was fucked that got him off was like, you didn't know him well enough to take that shot at him.

00:38:40Marc:Oh, that's what he thought.

00:38:42Marc:Yeah.

00:38:42Marc:And so that's where it fucking went south.

00:38:45Guest:I don't know.

00:38:45Guest:You know, Jay called me the next day.

00:38:46Guest:What happened between you and Jay?

00:38:47Guest:And I said, you know, I've been trying to get on The Tonight Show my entire career.

00:38:51Guest:I looked at him as a heckler at the comedy store and I wasn't going to screw up my life.

00:38:55Guest:So, you know, to hell with him.

00:38:56Marc:Well, no, it was a legit shot.

00:38:58Marc:It was.

00:38:58Marc:But if Dom DeLuise had done it... Oh, it would have been totally different.

00:39:02Marc:Right.

00:39:02Marc:Yeah.

00:39:03Marc:But that was the whole thing, because I've had that issue with guys, where, you know, it was a lesson I learned, you know, when I upset Colin Quinn, you know.

00:39:10Marc:And I don't think he's ever forgiven me for it.

00:39:12Guest:Really?

00:39:12Marc:Yeah, because, like, you know, like, I had middle for Quinn, and I knew him in New York, kinda, and we dated the same woman.

00:39:18Marc:I married a woman.

00:39:19Marc:He used to date.

00:39:20Marc:Whatever.

00:39:20Marc:But this was before that.

00:39:22Marc:And he was doing, like, his first one-man show, right?

00:39:25Marc:Yeah.

00:39:26Marc:And it was at the Comedy Cellar, and he's like, yeah, I'm doing this one-minute show.

00:39:29Marc:And I said, like, you don't have what it takes for the road anymore, huh?

00:39:33Guest:Oh, my.

00:39:33Marc:And he just bit his knuckle, and he said, you don't know me well enough to say that.

00:39:39Marc:And it landed.

00:39:41Marc:But the comics are crazy.

00:39:43Marc:You've got to admit.

00:39:43Marc:Of course.

00:39:44Marc:But I thought it was amazing that you were not going to let him fuck up your Tonight Show.

00:39:48Marc:That Burt Reynolds, he wanted to punch you.

00:39:50Marc:He did.

00:39:51Marc:He did.

00:39:51Marc:When he hit me with a cup, he hit me really hard.

00:39:54Marc:Right.

00:39:54Marc:And he's in this weird struggle where it's like, I want to fuck him.

00:39:58Marc:Yeah.

00:39:58Marc:But he knows he's on TV.

00:40:00Marc:Yeah.

00:40:00Marc:And he was honoring the sort of code of entertainment.

00:40:03Guest:Well, NBC thought I was going to sue NBC and this and that.

00:40:05Guest:The attorneys came out afterwards and, you know, out of their minds.

00:40:08Guest:So the next day I'm at a gig and Steve Binder is a friend of mine, is a producer, and he says, I know Burt's publicist.

00:40:15Guest:Do you want me to call him and see what Burt thought of the show?

00:40:17Guest:And I went, yeah.

00:40:18Guest:So he calls the publicist and he says, Bert says, I was a bottom feeder of show business and I didn't show the movie star any respect.

00:40:25Marc:Oh, you said the movie star any respect.

00:40:27Marc:But like, I mean, he was having his own problems, obviously.

00:40:30Marc:But I love that as a comic, I just, there was something about it was, it wasn't so much because I just watched it for the first time today.

00:40:36Marc:Really?

00:40:36Marc:Yeah.

00:40:37Marc:So, so like it wasn't, and I'm just responding to it like, like it's new.

00:40:41Marc:And, and there you were all by yourself, but you did not, you did not get off the horse.

00:40:46Marc:Yeah.

00:40:46Marc:Not once.

00:40:47Marc:And you do like, you know, there was something funny about trying to get back to the interview.

00:40:52Marc:And you knew that, you know, this guy was volatile.

00:40:54Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:40:54Marc:But you just you rode this line and you held your fucking own.

00:40:58Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:40:58Marc:And all the way up to where he literally punches you with a pie.

00:41:01Marc:Yeah.

00:41:01Marc:Like whoever scrambled to get those pies out.

00:41:04Guest:That was really something.

00:41:05Guest:Well, that's the story behind that.

00:41:08Guest:But he took a couple of good shots at you.

00:41:09Guest:Yeah.

00:41:10Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:41:11Marc:Like, he's funny.

00:41:12Marc:Oh, he can be.

00:41:12Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:41:13Marc:He can be.

00:41:15Marc:He made the thing about my wife?

00:41:17Marc:Well, no, the Milton Berle joke.

00:41:18Marc:Oh, the Milton Berle joke.

00:41:19Marc:Too hip for the room?

00:41:19Marc:That was way too hip for the room.

00:41:20Guest:And then he says, oh, I'm sure we're great on Nickelodeon or something.

00:41:24Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:41:24Guest:Yeah, I mean, that was a funny line.

00:41:26Guest:I mean, I got to give him that stuff.

00:41:27Guest:Sure, for sure.

00:41:28Guest:But the deal was Jay, you know, couldn't beat Dave to save his life.

00:41:32Guest:He hadn't done the other thing yet where, you know, he became number one.

00:41:35Guest:And so the phone call came that he wanted to do something with pies.

00:41:40Guest:And then I got the phone call that Jay said, I don't want to do that kind of stuff.

00:41:43Guest:So the props were bought backstage.

00:41:45Marc:Oh, they were there already.

00:41:45Guest:They were already there.

00:41:46Guest:So if you go back and look at the tape, you'll see Jay look at the stage manager show, get the pies.

00:41:51Marc:Oh, really?

00:41:52Marc:Yeah.

00:41:52Marc:Well, that was the one smartest thing he did?

00:41:54Marc:Yes.

00:41:54Marc:And so Jay came up with... So Bert knew that there might be pies?

00:41:57Marc:No.

00:41:57Marc:Bert had no idea.

00:41:59Marc:Huh.

00:41:59Marc:No idea.

00:42:00Marc:But I knew that... And this was what year?

00:42:01Marc:1994.

00:42:04Marc:So how long had Jay been hosting the show?

00:42:06Marc:A couple years.

00:42:07Marc:And Bert looked good.

00:42:08Marc:It was... Yeah, he still looked good.

00:42:10Guest:I mean, look, you take away the lifts and the hairpiece.

00:42:12Guest:Sure.

00:42:12Guest:Who knows what the hell... Yeah.

00:42:13Marc:See, that was the attitude that got you fucked.

00:42:15Marc:Yeah.

00:42:15Guest:Well, no, you know, no, it wasn't.

00:42:17Guest:Fuck him.

00:42:18Guest:You know, the situation was my son, when I got home, said, Dad, why didn't you pull his wig off?

00:42:21Guest:I said, I don't want to go, you know, to the bottom like him, you know.

00:42:24Guest:I don't want to be that guy.

00:42:25Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:42:27Marc:You just, it was so funny because I knew exactly what happened in terms of where he turned.

00:42:33Guest:And the way I got on the show was my publicist at the time handled Jason Alexander.

00:42:37Guest:And Jason was just off of Seinfeld.

00:42:40Marc:And you're doing the Nickelodeon show.

00:42:41Guest:How long?

00:42:42Guest:I doubled it from 86 to 94 years.

00:42:44Marc:Oh, so this is the end of Double Dare.

00:42:46Marc:Yeah.

00:42:46Marc:And like every kid in America knows you.

00:42:49Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:42:49Marc:From Double Dare.

00:42:49Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:42:50Marc:Like it's the biggest show.

00:42:51Guest:I used to sell 20,000 seat arenas out and do the live show.

00:42:54Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:42:55Guest:I was touring.

00:42:56Marc:So this is like, you know, you're about to transition into something else?

00:42:59Marc:Yeah.

00:42:59Guest:I was doing a talk show on Lifetime at the time too as well.

00:43:02Marc:Okay, so you're a guy, but this is your shot.

00:43:04Marc:You didn't get it with Johnny.

00:43:05Marc:Yeah.

00:43:05Marc:And this is your Tonight Show shot.

00:43:06Guest:It's my Tonight Show shot.

00:43:07Guest:Yep, absolutely, 100%.

00:43:09Marc:And you got to sit next to angry, grumpy pants, Burt Reynolds.

00:43:13Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:43:14Guest:I had been bumped three times.

00:43:16Guest:And so they said, you're definitely going to get on.

00:43:19Guest:And the limo picks me up at my house and gets a flat tire on the Ventura Freeway.

00:43:23Guest:And I thought, oh, Jesus, what's going on here, you know?

00:43:25Guest:So I get there, and it's like, you know, God doesn't want me to do this show.

00:43:27Guest:And so...

00:43:28Guest:Burt came out, and he was supposed to do two segments.

00:43:31Guest:I was supposed to be segment three.

00:43:32Guest:Carrot Top was supposed to be number four.

00:43:34Guest:And he was going to do stand-up?

00:43:35Guest:Yeah, he was going to do stand-up.

00:43:36Guest:And so Burt was kicking ass, so they said, we're going to extend him.

00:43:39Guest:And they come backstage, and they say to me, sorry, Summers, we're bumping you again.

00:43:42Guest:And my publicist said, if you bump Mark Summers four times in a row, Jason Alexander will never do this show again.

00:43:48Guest:So because of that- Show business.

00:43:49Guest:Yeah, show biz.

00:43:50Guest:Yeah.

00:43:51Guest:You know, instead of Carrot Top- They stopped him?

00:43:53Guest:Oh, they just let you go.

00:43:55Guest:Let me go, and Carrot Top got rebooked.

00:43:57Guest:Scott had to go home.

00:43:57Guest:Yeah, Scott had to go home.

00:43:58Guest:It's all right.

00:44:01Guest:Listen, by the way, if you go to Vegas, you got to see his show.

00:44:03Guest:Okay.

00:44:04Guest:I laughed my ass off.

00:44:05Guest:I thought he's fantastic.

00:44:07Marc:I went to, when I interviewed him in Vegas, it was just like, you know, I went to see the show and I just liked that.

00:44:11Marc:Like he, he used whatever money was available.

00:44:14Marc:The show I saw it just, I think it started snowing for no reason.

00:44:17Marc:In the theater.

00:44:18Marc:And I'm like, is there a point to that?

00:44:19Marc:It's like, he could do it.

00:44:21Marc:So funny.

00:44:22Guest:Does he still open the thing with all the animals schlupping each other?

00:44:25Marc:Oh, I don't know.

00:44:26Marc:I get weird text videos from him occasionally.

00:44:29Marc:He's a funny guy.

00:44:30Marc:He's an odd dude.

00:44:31Marc:Oh, yeah, he is.

00:44:31Marc:And he is funny.

00:44:33Guest:Once again, comics.

00:44:33Marc:Yeah, I know, dude.

00:44:35Guest:See, they used to call me the businessman comedian.

00:44:37Guest:Really?

00:44:37Guest:I was married.

00:44:38Guest:I'd come in in like, you know, a suit and tie.

00:44:41Guest:You know, everybody was wearing Hawaiian shirts and, you know, all this kind of stuff.

00:44:44Guest:I took it like a gig, you know, like it was my job.

00:44:46Guest:Sure.

00:44:47Marc:I mean, but like, let's go back and talk about the theme of, you know, God's got it out for you.

00:44:53Yeah.

00:44:55Marc:I mean, the minor situation, the limo gets a flat.

00:44:59Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:45:00Marc:But going back.

00:45:01Marc:Yeah.

00:45:02Marc:So as a comic.

00:45:04Marc:Right.

00:45:05Marc:You had your dreams, but how do you end up, you know, that your break and your livelihood and your insurance and I'm sure what bought you your house and got your kids college.

00:45:14Marc:How did you get on that show?

00:45:16Marc:And then find out that, you know, you've got all these mental problems.

00:45:19Marc:Right.

00:45:19Marc:Like the on Double Dare.

00:45:20Marc:Careful.

00:45:21Marc:Well, no, we all do.

00:45:22Marc:Comics.

00:45:23Marc:Comics.

00:45:23Marc:Come on, you want to use comics?

00:45:25Guest:Honest to God.

00:45:26Guest:Yeah.

00:45:27Guest:A friend of mine from Cape Town, South Africa, I went to college with, had a smoked salmon business.

00:45:32Guest:And he was the largest distributor of smoked salmon for the entire continent of Australia.

00:45:36Guest:And he was doing Harrods of London.

00:45:37Guest:How do you know that guy?

00:45:39Guest:We went to Graham Junior College together.

00:45:41Marc:Wow, this place was some place.

00:45:42Marc:It was amazing.

00:45:42Marc:It's like a magic mystery.

00:45:44Guest:It was like the Harry Potter school for- It was, for people who were successful.

00:45:48Guest:Yeah.

00:45:48Guest:And so I was doing warm-ups on a bunch of shows that all got canceled.

00:45:53Guest:And we had just bought a house that I couldn't afford.

00:45:55Guest:Out here?

00:45:56Guest:Yeah, trying to send my kids to camp that summer, and I was screwed.

00:45:59Guest:So I called up Lawrence in Cape Town and said, you have the greatest product in the world.

00:46:03Guest:Send me some.

00:46:03Guest:I'm going to see if I can sell it.

00:46:04Marc:Yeah.

00:46:05Marc:You're going to be a salmon salesman.

00:46:06Guest:I'm going to be a salmon salesman.

00:46:07Guest:So the first place I go to was a place.

00:46:09Guest:And you're still doing spots at the store?

00:46:11Guest:I was doing spots at the store.

00:46:13Guest:And so I go to a place called Jillian's in Larchmont, and I sell like three pounds of salmon.

00:46:20Guest:And I go to a... Three pounds.

00:46:22Guest:That was a starter kit?

00:46:23Guest:That was a starter kit.

00:46:24Guest:To give them a taste.

00:46:25Guest:To see if they liked the stuff.

00:46:26Guest:And so I go to a pay phone, and I wake Lawrence up in Cape Town.

00:46:32Guest:I said, we made our first sale, okay?

00:46:34Guest:And so I now say, send me more.

00:46:36Guest:And the more he sends me, every place I go into...

00:46:39Guest:I'm selling salmon, and I'm kicking ass.

00:46:41Guest:Next thing I know, I get us into Price Club, okay?

00:46:44Guest:We're doing 80,000 pounds of smoked salmon a month at Price Club, and then I get us into Trader Joe's, okay?

00:46:50Guest:So now I'm saying to myself, I guess show business is not going to happen.

00:46:53Guest:This is a commission gig?

00:46:55Guest:Yeah, this is a commission gig, and I'm going to be a smoked salmon salesman.

00:46:58Guest:Sure, why not?

00:46:59Guest:And a friend, Dave Garrison, who was a ventriloquist in Indianapolis, had come out here, and he was trying to do – I was hosting Monday nights at the Improv.

00:47:06Guest:And I tried to get them.

00:47:08Marc:What, the sort of like amateur night?

00:47:10Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:47:11Guest:So anyway, Dave calls me and says, I just got a call from some network I'd never heard of called Nickelodeon.

00:47:15Guest:They want me to come in and audition for a game show.

00:47:17Guest:Yeah.

00:47:19Guest:Why don't you go instead of me?

00:47:21Guest:Yeah.

00:47:22Guest:So I went.

00:47:22Guest:They said, Dave Garrison.

00:47:23Guest:I said, Dave couldn't be here.

00:47:24Guest:My name is Mark Summers.

00:47:25Guest:Can I audition instead?

00:47:26Guest:When did you change your name?

00:47:28Guest:I woke up one morning and the son of Sam was David Berkowitz.

00:47:30Guest:My agent called me and said, I can't get you a job.

00:47:32Guest:Change your name.

00:47:33Guest:He said, nobody knows who you are anyway.

00:47:35Guest:Berkowitz is out.

00:47:37Guest:Is out.

00:47:37Guest:But, you know, the most anti-Semitic people in show business are other Jews.

00:47:40Guest:And when I became Summers, I started to work.

00:47:42Guest:But that's a whole other story.

00:47:43Guest:So anyway, so I auditioned.

00:47:45Guest:And I knew I did a good job.

00:47:48Guest:And I go to the pay phone outside at a gas station, call my agent, Richard Lawrence.

00:47:52Guest:I say, Richard, I got this gig.

00:47:54Guest:And he goes, no, you don't.

00:47:55Guest:I'm sending 10 other clients.

00:47:57Guest:I wouldn't be so sure.

00:47:57Guest:Yeah.

00:47:58Guest:Well, I got three callbacks.

00:48:00Guest:Yeah.

00:48:00Guest:And I knew they were going to start shooting the end of September in Philadelphia.

00:48:03Guest:And it was the weekend before Labor Day.

00:48:05Guest:And I always used to get the name and phone number of the casting director and the exec producer who was in the room.

00:48:10Guest:And I, Mike Klinghofer was exec producer.

00:48:12Guest:And I called him.

00:48:12Guest:I said, why haven't I heard from you?

00:48:16Guest:It's funny.

00:48:16Guest:We were just talking about you.

00:48:17Guest:It's between you and another guy, but we can't decide who we should hire.

00:48:20Guest:Who's the other guy?

00:48:21Guest:To this day, I don't know.

00:48:23Guest:The rumor was that Dana Carvey was offered the job first, but got Saturday Night Live the same week.

00:48:29Guest:So thank God for that.

00:48:29Marc:I like that you're always in really good company.

00:48:31Guest:I am.

00:48:32Guest:Yeah.

00:48:33Guest:I never quite got there.

00:48:34Guest:I'm playing AAA baseball my entire career.

00:48:36Guest:But nonetheless, he said, we don't know if you're good with kids.

00:48:42Guest:I said, I have kids.

00:48:42Guest:He goes, yeah, that means nothing.

00:48:43Guest:I said, I used to do magic shows for kids.

00:48:45Guest:He said, it's irrelevant.

00:48:46Guest:So I came up with the idea.

00:48:47Guest:I said, why don't you put us both in a room with kids, play the game, let the best man win.

00:48:51Guest:He said, I'll call you back.

00:48:52Guest:An hour later, he said, we're flying in New York over Labor Day weekend.

00:48:55Guest:We're going to put you in a studio with kids and see what happens.

00:48:57Guest:Yeah.

00:48:57Guest:So I did the audition.

00:48:58Guest:I left.

00:48:59Guest:Whoever the other person was does the audition.

00:49:01Guest:How did you do with the kids?

00:49:02Guest:I kicked ass.

00:49:02Guest:I knew I was going to.

00:49:03Guest:And so I had been writing game shows and hosting so many things.

00:49:07Guest:I knew I was great at it.

00:49:08Marc:Like what?

00:49:09Guest:You know what?

00:49:10Guest:Doing warm-ups is the best prep for anything.

00:49:12Guest:I was the king of warm-ups.

00:49:13Guest:I did more warm-ups than almost anybody than Bob Perlow.

00:49:16Guest:You were the warm-up.

00:49:17Guest:I was the warm-up guys.

00:49:18Guest:Star Search, Alice Webster.

00:49:19Guest:What's happening?

00:49:20Marc:Come on, everybody.

00:49:20Marc:Let's go.

00:49:21Marc:Nice round of applause.

00:49:21Marc:There you go.

00:49:21Guest:Let me hear a little bit of applause.

00:49:23Guest:But you could make a fortune.

00:49:23Guest:I was making six figures before everybody knew.

00:49:25Guest:Sure, and it's a union gig.

00:49:26Guest:It was a union gig.

00:49:27Guest:And that's my pension is a lot of that stuff.

00:49:30Guest:So anyway, they called me two days after the audition.

00:49:34Guest:They said, you got the job.

00:49:35Guest:And I said, I know you auditioned 1,000 in New York and 1,000 in L.A.

00:49:38Guest:Why did you get the job?

00:49:39Guest:They said at the end of the other guy's audition, he looked at the camera and said, do you guys want me to do something else?

00:49:44Guest:And you looked in the camera and said, we'll be back with more Double Dare right after this.

00:49:48Guest:And because I threw the commercial, I got the gig.

00:49:50Guest:Because I knew that's what you did.

00:49:51Guest:You didn't say, hey, is there anything else?

00:49:53Guest:You throw the commercial.

00:49:54Guest:You got to do the tease.

00:49:55Guest:Hell yeah.

00:49:56Guest:I was ready, man.

00:49:57Guest:I was ready.

00:49:58Guest:But here's the deal.

00:49:59Guest:I got that job.

00:49:59Guest:I was 34 years old.

00:50:01Guest:If I would have had that audition when I first moved out here, I would have never gotten it because I wasn't ready.

00:50:05Marc:No, but it wasn't what you wanted to do.

00:50:08Guest:Does it make any difference?

00:50:09Guest:I couldn't have done it.

00:50:10Marc:No, I get it.

00:50:11Marc:I wasn't seasoned.

00:50:12Marc:No, sure.

00:50:13Marc:It's nice to get an opportunity in and be ready to have it.

00:50:15Marc:Yeah.

00:50:16Marc:But do you think you would have embraced that job?

00:50:20Marc:Seriously?

00:50:20Marc:I don't know.

00:50:21Guest:It became this massive part of my life, needless to say.

00:50:26Marc:No, I get it.

00:50:27Marc:But I think of things that... When I was down on my luck...

00:50:33Marc:You know, I got this gig because somebody misunderstood my disposition hosting this ridiculous game show for VH1 when they were trying to rebrand it.

00:50:44Marc:And it was terrible.

00:50:46Marc:And it was an import of a British game show called Nevermind the Buzzcocks.

00:50:50Marc:I didn't quite understand the game.

00:50:51Marc:There was no stakes.

00:50:52Marc:It was really about improv and celebrity people.

00:50:56Marc:And it's a trivia driven.

00:50:58Guest:Who produced it?

00:50:58Guest:Do you remember it?

00:50:58Marc:Woody something.

00:51:01Marc:Woody Frazier?

00:51:02Marc:No.

00:51:03Marc:I forget the name of the company.

00:51:05Marc:But we did like 13 episodes, 12 episodes, right?

00:51:08Marc:It was when they were going to rebrand with me and Galifianakis.

00:51:10Marc:Oh, my.

00:51:11Marc:And that whole thing tanked.

00:51:12Marc:Galifianakis was doing a talk show, and I was doing this buzzcock show, and none of them even made it to air, and they don't even exist in the world.

00:51:20Marc:Come on.

00:51:20Marc:There's not something on YouTube?

00:51:22Marc:No.

00:51:23Marc:I think there's a commercial.

00:51:24Marc:But it's crazy, dude.

00:51:26Marc:And I was so happy because I was broke.

00:51:29Marc:I'd just gotten through a divorce, and it gave me like 75K in like seven suits.

00:51:34Marc:Sure.

00:51:34Marc:And I was set.

00:51:35Marc:Dying gone in there, man.

00:51:37Marc:But it was so much something I didn't want to do that I had like the worst diarrhea the entire shoot.

00:51:45Marc:Yeah.

00:51:45Marc:And I thought I was sick, but it was really just— You were just nervous.

00:51:48Marc:No, it was going against everything I believed in, but I didn't see I had the choice because I was broke.

00:51:54Marc:Yeah, I've never been in that situation, but I understand what you're saying.

00:51:57Marc:But what I'm saying is this, that, you know, you wanted to do—you know, you wanted to be one of the guys.

00:52:03Marc:You wanted to host a show.

00:52:04Marc:So I think that if it was early in your career and they said to you, you know, we want you to do a kid's show, the odds of you saying like, I don't know—

00:52:13Guest:Maybe, you know, here's what I realized quickly at the comedy store, that I wasn't that funny.

00:52:19Guest:Oh, wow.

00:52:19Guest:Okay.

00:52:19Marc:Good for you.

00:52:20Guest:I realized, you know, well, it's true.

00:52:22Guest:I would watch Dave and Jay and Robin and Gary and all these people and go... Mule deer?

00:52:27Guest:Oh, mule deer.

00:52:28Guest:Gary who?

00:52:28Guest:Yeah.

00:52:29Guest:Shanley.

00:52:30Guest:Oh, okay.

00:52:31Guest:And I realized I didn't have it.

00:52:34Guest:Oh, okay.

00:52:34Guest:Okay.

00:52:35Guest:And I thought to myself, I'm good at being me.

00:52:37Guest:Yeah, right.

00:52:38Guest:But I'm not sure that I'm a kind of guy who can go out there and do, you know, material like that.

00:52:43Guest:And I had a strong 20 minutes.

00:52:44Guest:Right.

00:52:45Guest:I remember I had to play a college gig and do an hour and it was like dying, you know, 700 deaths.

00:52:50Guest:I brought the magic back on those gigs, you know.

00:52:52Marc:Oh, you did.

00:52:52Marc:I did.

00:52:53Marc:Don't tell me you desperately went to the bag.

00:52:55Guest:I went to the bag, you know, because I got booked.

00:52:57Guest:And at that time, I did need the money.

00:52:59Guest:And so, you know, they were paying me, you know, whatever it was for a weekend to go to Tulane University in New Orleans.

00:53:04Marc:Listless freshmen because they weren't old enough to drink watching you.

00:53:08Guest:That's right.

00:53:08Marc:That's exactly it, man.

00:53:10Guest:And so you do what you got to do, I guess, at times.

00:53:11Guest:But I knew I was better at being me than doing stand-up.

00:53:15Marc:And the hosting thing, like, well, that really trained you.

00:53:17Guest:Yeah, it really did.

00:53:18Marc:To get an audience going.

00:53:20Marc:And kids are kids.

00:53:21Guest:I remember once I was doing a warm-up on Soap.

00:53:22Guest:And Soap was the hottest show.

00:53:24Guest:And they used to bring... Now, I'm doing Soap.

00:53:26Guest:Next to me is Saget doing Bosom Buddies.

00:53:28Guest:And to the left of me, Barney Miller and Letterman's doing the warm-ups on Barney Miller.

00:53:32Guest:Really?

00:53:33Guest:Because of Landisburg?

00:53:33Guest:Yeah.

00:53:34Guest:Uh-huh.

00:53:34Guest:And so Buddy Mora, his manager, says to me, I want to bring Dave over here, and he needs to watch you and know how to do a warm-up.

00:53:43Guest:And I said, don't do that, okay?

00:53:45Guest:Because Dave was Dave even then.

00:53:47Marc:And I said, Buddy, do me a favor.

00:53:49Guest:Don't bring him.

00:53:50Guest:This is my secret.

00:53:51Guest:Yeah, yeah, no.

00:53:52Guest:I mean, Dave, I was never going to be Dave.

00:53:54Guest:And so, you know, and from that, one job became another job.

00:53:58Guest:You know, I replaced – this is all stupid stuff.

00:54:01Guest:Gary Shandling was doing the warm-ups on Alice and they didn't like him.

00:54:03Guest:And I replaced Shandling on Alice, you know.

00:54:05Guest:That really hurt his career, didn't it?

00:54:07Marc:No, but I mean there are certain guys that cannot get out of their disposition.

00:54:12Marc:Like I can't see Gary doing warm-ups.

00:54:14Marc:Oh, he must have been awful.

00:54:15Marc:Yeah, you know, because like so much of it is about getting a crowd going.

00:54:18Guest:Yeah, it's not about how's my hair.

00:54:19Guest:Yeah.

00:54:21Guest:You're making it about him.

00:54:22Guest:Always.

00:54:23Guest:Everything's about him.

00:54:23Guest:I know.

00:54:24Guest:I know.

00:54:24Guest:The man was never happy a day in his life.

00:54:26Guest:Oh, that's too bad.

00:54:27Guest:But he was amazing.

00:54:28Guest:When I was working Westwood.

00:54:29Guest:So funny, dude.

00:54:31Guest:He was very funny.

00:54:32Guest:He used to be able to look at my act and tell me, he was a wordsmith.

00:54:35Guest:Yeah.

00:54:36Guest:Take this word out, move it over here.

00:54:38Guest:Yeah.

00:54:38Guest:He used to help me tremendously.

00:54:40Guest:The mathematics.

00:54:41Guest:But he was right every time.

00:54:42Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:54:42Marc:Yeah, every time.

00:54:43Marc:That's great.

00:54:43Marc:Yeah.

00:54:44Marc:All right, so you get this gig.

00:54:46Marc:Yep.

00:54:46Marc:And now how does it unfold that you realize you have this problem?

00:54:52Guest:So you're talking about obsessive compulsive disorder.

00:54:55Marc:How do you treat that?

00:54:55Guest:What are you on, meds?

00:54:57Guest:No longer.

00:54:58Guest:Behavior therapy and medication for a while, but that was a long time ago.

00:55:02Marc:Don't, don't, don't go check the gas.

00:55:05Guest:That's kind of what it is.

00:55:06Marc:I know, yeah, of course.

00:55:07Marc:Cognitive therapy, like.

00:55:08Guest:And so we do the first 65 episodes and the show explodes.

00:55:13Guest:But this is like the show is like just chaos, right?

00:55:15Guest:It's chaos.

00:55:16Guest:And there's green slime and whipped cream and chocolate syrup.

00:55:19Guest:And kids everywhere.

00:55:20Guest:Kids everywhere.

00:55:20Guest:And so I'm wearing like basically a three-peat suit and I'm not wearing sneakers.

00:55:25Guest:I'm wearing penny loafers because I'm Mr. Conservative anyway.

00:55:28Guest:Right.

00:55:29Guest:And focus groups, show explodes.

00:55:31Guest:And at the time, UHF TV was still around.

00:55:33Guest:And Facts of Life and Different Strokes were the number one shows until Double Dare starts.

00:55:37Guest:And then Double Dare starts getting insane numbers.

00:55:40Guest:And now on cable, if you get a 0.2, people go, oh, my God, it's amazing.

00:55:43Guest:We were getting fives.

00:55:44Guest:Okay, not 0.5s.

00:55:45Guest:We were getting fives.

00:55:46Guest:That's current network numbers.

00:55:47Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:55:48Guest:And so on a snow day, forget about it.

00:55:51Guest:And so... Open for snow.

00:55:55Guest:There you go.

00:55:56Guest:And so they do a focus group with the kids.

00:55:58Guest:The kids say, we really like Mark.

00:56:00Guest:He's like our crazy uncle or this and that.

00:56:03Guest:But we want him to get messy.

00:56:05Guest:So the network says, you need to get messy.

00:56:07Guest:First of all, get rid of those penny loafers.

00:56:09Guest:You need to dress a little cooler, a little hipper.

00:56:13Guest:And you need to get trashed.

00:56:14Marc:Yeah.

00:56:15Marc:You got to get stuff on you.

00:56:16Guest:And I said, okay.

00:56:17Guest:Yeah.

00:56:17Guest:Because I waited my whole life to host something and get a permanent gig.

00:56:20Marc:Yeah.

00:56:21Guest:Not necessarily this show.

00:56:22Marc:So the first 65, that's pre-mess.

00:56:24Guest:Pre-mess.

00:56:25Guest:Okay.

00:56:25Guest:You can look at those shows.

00:56:26Guest:I don't get it.

00:56:27Guest:I learned how to dodge that stuff.

00:56:28Marc:Okay.

00:56:29Guest:After that, it was all hell broke loose.

00:56:31Guest:Okay.

00:56:32Guest:And so I knew I had OCD, but I didn't know how bad I had OCD.

00:56:35Guest:Okay.

00:56:35Guest:How did you know?

00:56:37Guest:When the kids would say, if we do the obstacle course and win, can we put you in the—we had this massive swim.

00:56:45Guest:Can we throw you in the pool or can we slime you?

00:56:47Guest:And I had to say yes to everything.

00:56:49Marc:But how did you know you had OCD before?

00:56:51Guest:Oh, well, it runs in the family, first of all.

00:56:55Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:56:55Guest:In Ashkenazi Jews, it's high predominance.

00:56:57Guest:Is that true?

00:56:58Guest:Oh, absolutely.

00:56:58Guest:High predominance amongst the people in Russia, Romania, and Hungary.

00:57:03Guest:New Zealand has the largest percentage of people with OCD.

00:57:05Guest:But they're not Oscar Nazi Jews.

00:57:07Guest:No, but the ones are, I really haven't been.

00:57:10Guest:Bad.

00:57:12Guest:So anyway, I grew up, basically I'd go to my grandmother's house in Toledo and my vacation was cleaning.

00:57:18Guest:My job was to clean the woodwork and wash the windows.

00:57:21Guest:Because you volunteer for that?

00:57:22Guest:No.

00:57:23Guest:That's what the family did.

00:57:24Guest:They just cleaned 24-7.

00:57:26Guest:When I get home from nursery school, I would clean with my mother.

00:57:31Guest:It was insane.

00:57:32Guest:My dad's closet was like you couldn't touch a thing.

00:57:36Guest:Everything was perfect.

00:57:37Guest:And through the jeans, I was the same way, except I hid it.

00:57:41Marc:Ugh.

00:57:41Marc:I used to do a joke about it, but then I guess it became insensitive about, like, because I said I have mild OCD.

00:57:46Marc:And, you know, I mean, there is a benefit to OCD.

00:57:50Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:57:50Marc:That's why I'm successful, by the way.

00:57:52Marc:But my joke was, like, every time you go back in and check the gas, every time it's off, you still get that same feeling.

00:57:59Yeah.

00:57:59Marc:That relief.

00:58:00Marc:It's true.

00:58:01Marc:It's true.

00:58:01Marc:It's like you can hit it every time.

00:58:03Guest:But OCD made me successful because it made me repeat things and go after things.

00:58:07Guest:And when I would call back, I would follow up, and it worked.

00:58:11Guest:But, yeah, they started to trash me more and more and more.

00:58:14Guest:And then it became, I want to get on the show because I just want to mess up Mark kind of situation.

00:58:18Marc:And so the mess was bothering you?

00:58:21Marc:The germs?

00:58:22Guest:No, not the germs.

00:58:22Guest:The mess.

00:58:23Guest:I have slime dripping from you.

00:58:25Guest:I have whipped cream.

00:58:26Guest:It's sticky.

00:58:27Guest:You know, when you get slimed and you think you got it all out of your hair or yours and you do this in the middle of the night and you go, it's green.

00:58:35Guest:It's like, oh, my God.

00:58:35Marc:So it was the filth.

00:58:36Marc:It was the filth, yeah.

00:58:37Guest:I didn't like not being.

00:58:39Marc:But was it making you crazy?

00:58:40Guest:Um, not on camera.

00:58:42Guest:You know, I hate, you know, I hate social media anyway, but social media, you know, Summers hated every minute.

00:58:46Guest:He, you know, hated Boone doubled it.

00:58:48Guest:No, I had the best.

00:58:48Marc:You talked about it on what, on Preston and Steve.

00:58:50Marc:Yeah.

00:58:50Marc:And all that stuff.

00:58:51Guest:And you know what?

00:58:52Guest:I loved it.

00:58:52Guest:It was the greatest time of my life.

00:58:53Guest:I was making a lot of money.

00:58:54Marc:Yeah.

00:58:55Guest:Uh, you know, it, it changed my life.

00:58:57Guest:I loved it.

00:58:57Guest:Did I like the fact that I had OCD and it, you know, internally made me nuts?

00:59:01Guest:No, of course not.

00:59:02Guest:But I wasn't giving up that gig, man.

00:59:03Marc:But did it get you into treatment?

00:59:05Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:59:06Guest:Well, no, the way I got into treatment, I was hosting a talk show on Lifetime called Triggers and Summers.

00:59:09Guest:And we had a doctor on, Dr. Eric Hollander, who, unlike many talk show hosts, I actually researched the stuff the night before.

00:59:16Guest:And I was reading this stuff in my apartment in New York.

00:59:19Guest:And I said, oh, Jesus, I do that, I do that, I do that.

00:59:22Guest:I said, I think I have this.

00:59:24Guest:So my decision the next day we were live is, do I go on and pretend I don't have it or do I come clean?

00:59:31Guest:Well,

00:59:31Guest:I admitted to Dr. Hollander live on the air, I think I have this.

00:59:35Guest:And he says, what makes you think you have it?

00:59:37Guest:And we go into this whole discussion.

00:59:38Guest:Well, the next thing I know, my parents call up and go, why did you do that?

00:59:43Guest:First thing.

00:59:44Guest:What do you talk about?

00:59:45Guest:Yeah, we don't talk about those things.

00:59:46Marc:Through the family under the bus?

00:59:47Marc:Oh, yeah, big time.

00:59:48Marc:The cleanest house in Indianapolis.

00:59:50Guest:When I did Oprah, my parents, they weren't talking to me.

00:59:54Guest:So this became your thing.

00:59:55Guest:Oh, well.

00:59:56Guest:Would you write a book?

00:59:57Guest:You wrote a book.

00:59:57Guest:I wrote a book.

00:59:58Guest:You know, next thing I know, I'm on Howard Stern talking about it.

01:00:01Guest:About OCD.

01:00:02Guest:OCD.

01:00:02Guest:You're the OCD guy.

01:00:03Guest:I was on Oprah.

01:00:03Guest:You know, but it's weird.

01:00:05Guest:Howie Mandel got a pass, okay?

01:00:07Guest:Makes no difference.

01:00:07Guest:His OCD is a thousand times worse than mine.

01:00:09Guest:He seems to have gotten better.

01:00:11Guest:Oh, please.

01:00:12Marc:No?

01:00:12Marc:When was the last time you were with Howie?

01:00:15Marc:Not long ago.

01:00:16Marc:And I was very aware that he touched me.

01:00:19Guest:Oh, well, that's, you know.

01:00:20Marc:No, please.

01:00:21Guest:No.

01:00:22Marc:He's not good?

01:00:25Guest:Howie's Howie.

01:00:25Marc:I love him.

01:00:26Marc:He's the best.

01:00:26Guest:I used to open for him.

01:00:27Guest:A place called Stocks 2 down in Orange County.

01:00:29Guest:So anyway, yeah, next thing I know, I'm in People Magazine, Howard Stern, Oprah Winfrey.

01:00:34Guest:I'm everywhere.

01:00:35Guest:And, you know, parents stopped talking to me.

01:00:40Guest:Because you outed the OCD?

01:00:42Guest:Yeah, we're not like that.

01:00:43Guest:We don't do those things.

01:00:45Guest:Really?

01:00:46Guest:You know, call my brother and sister.

01:00:49Guest:You want to get proof?

01:00:50Guest:Holy shit.

01:00:50Guest:You know, so that was a whole mishigas that we went through.

01:00:52Guest:But nonetheless, you know, I learned to deal with it.

01:00:56Guest:And, you know, was my dream to do Double Dare and a kids game show?

01:01:00Guest:No.

01:01:00Guest:And I think the reason the show was successful, besides it was a good show, was I never talked down to the kids.

01:01:05Guest:I never went, you know, Bobby, do you have a girlfriend?

01:01:07Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:08Guest:I thought I was playing Alex Trebek out there.

01:01:10Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:10Guest:I was screwing with him and asking questions.

01:01:12Guest:And they screwed back with me.

01:01:13Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:01:13Guest:And it worked.

01:01:15Marc:And also it got you better in terms of OCD and the skill set.

01:01:20Marc:It was timing.

01:01:21Guest:It was right place, right time.

01:01:24Marc:But was there a new career?

01:01:26Marc:Was it happening simultaneously that you were addressing the OCD publicly and with Oprah and everything else, or was it after?

01:01:32Guest:It was all during.

01:01:32Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:01:33Marc:And then this all culminated in your Burt Reynolds experience.

01:01:36Marc:Yeah.

01:01:36Marc:So it was actually a sign of recovery.

01:01:38Marc:In many ways.

01:01:39Marc:That you embraced the pie.

01:01:40Marc:What a way to get recovered, huh?

01:01:42Yeah.

01:01:42Marc:National television.

01:01:44Marc:You took an angry pie from Burt Reynolds.

01:01:46Guest:Boy, that was the angriest pie ever, man.

01:01:48Marc:It was, dude.

01:01:49Marc:It's hard to watch.

01:01:50Guest:It is hard to watch.

01:01:51Guest:And NBC was scared to death.

01:01:52Guest:They just thought.

01:01:53Marc:Did you even think to sue?

01:01:54Guest:No, I'm not going to sue.

01:01:55Marc:What are you going to do?

01:01:56Guest:How are you going to make a case?

01:01:58Guest:Then you'll never work again.

01:01:59Guest:Who needs that?

01:01:59Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:00Guest:So after that, what do you do?

01:02:04Guest:Well, you know, I was doing my talk show.

01:02:06Guest:On Lifetime.

01:02:08Guest:On Lifetime.

01:02:08Marc:Because it looks like you've done a lot of the hosting.

01:02:10Guest:Yeah, I did a lot of stuff.

01:02:11Guest:And then I was hosting a show on History Channel called History IQ.

01:02:14Marc:Yeah.

01:02:15Guest:And, you know, one thing led to another until finally I hit the wall.

01:02:19Guest:We all hit the wall in our career at some point.

01:02:21Guest:Was this in the taxi?

01:02:23Guest:Well, no.

01:02:23Guest:We'll get to that.

01:02:25Marc:Yeah.

01:02:26Guest:I was...

01:02:28Guest:Doing nothing, really.

01:02:29Guest:Warm-ups have dried up.

01:02:31Guest:Nobody was calling me to- And you're out here doing nothing.

01:02:33Guest:I'm out here doing nothing.

01:02:34Marc:And you had that show forever?

01:02:36Guest:Yeah.

01:02:36Guest:And I'm going, oh, Jesus.

01:02:37Marc:Is money running out?

01:02:39Marc:A little bit.

01:02:39Marc:Yeah.

01:02:40Guest:A little bit.

01:02:40Guest:Yeah.

01:02:41Guest:And a guy I went to college with, Graham Jr.

01:02:42Guest:College, Jay Hartigan, called me up and goes, we have a production company.

01:02:45Guest:Oh, my God.

01:02:46Guest:And those schools saved my life.

01:02:47Marc:Is this what Emerson became?

01:02:50Guest:The kids from Emerson used to come out and hang at our studio because they weren't allowed to touch the cameras back then.

01:02:55Guest:Oh, my God.

01:02:55Guest:They weren't allowed to touch anything.

01:02:56Guest:In Emerson.

01:02:57Guest:But at Graham, anything went.

01:02:58Guest:We could do anything we wanted.

01:03:00Guest:So it was an art school.

01:03:02Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:03:03Guest:Okay.

01:03:03Guest:And so he calls me and said, we're in the TV production business.

01:03:07Guest:We do commercials and we do political ads.

01:03:09Guest:Can you get us into TV?

01:03:11Guest:I went, I don't know.

01:03:12Guest:So they flew me out there.

01:03:14Guest:We had meetings.

01:03:15Guest:I pretended to know what I was talking about.

01:03:17Guest:I really had no idea.

01:03:19Guest:And through a long chain of events, we met this chef by the name of Robert Irvine.

01:03:24Guest:And we did a sizzle reel for a show that started off as Dinner Impossible.

01:03:29Guest:And I became the exec producer of Dinner Impossible.

01:03:31Marc:Oh, that was a big show.

01:03:32Guest:That was a big show.

01:03:33Guest:That guy, is he all right?

01:03:34Guest:He's all right.

01:03:35Guest:Okay.

01:03:35Guest:Yeah, he's good.

01:03:36Guest:And so we did 90 of those.

01:03:38Guest:Good guy?

01:03:38Guest:Good guy.

01:03:39Guest:Okay.

01:03:39Guest:And then we turned into Restaurant Impossible where I exec produced 150 of those.

01:03:44Guest:And part of the reason we were shooting in Philadelphia was this little tax credit deal that we used to get.

01:03:51Guest:By shooting in certain states, they would pay you money back for – I love Philadelphia.

01:03:55Guest:Yeah, Philly.

01:03:55Guest:I lived there for 12 years.

01:03:56Guest:I loved it.

01:03:57Guest:Loved it.

01:03:57Guest:And so, yeah, I was hosting Unwrapped on Food Network, which at the time, me and Emeril, like the number one in two shows.

01:04:05Guest:Emeril built that network.

01:04:06Guest:He did.

01:04:07Guest:And they should have a shrine and put them on every night.

01:04:09Guest:Statue.

01:04:09Guest:He's the best guy ever.

01:04:11Guest:Nice guy.

01:04:11Guest:Oh, the best.

01:04:12Guest:Yeah.

01:04:12Guest:And so he and I were doing that.

01:04:16Guest:And then I became an exec producer.

01:04:18Guest:And for the last 10 or 12 years after Unwrapped, I was on the road producing shows.

01:04:24Guest:I did the Dinner Impossible, Restaurant Impossible show called Food Feuds.

01:04:27Guest:I did a bunch of stuff for him.

01:04:28Guest:Chefs have issues as well.

01:04:30Marc:Yeah.

01:04:31Guest:I mean, look at Bourdain, you know?

01:04:34Guest:Everybody thought he had the world by the balls and—

01:04:36Marc:But oddly, you know, he wouldn't, you know, you talked to him, which I did.

01:04:41Marc:You know, his experience as a professional chef, he really saw himself as kind of a hack.

01:04:46Marc:Yeah, I didn't think he was very good.

01:04:47Marc:Yeah, and that wasn't his bag.

01:04:49Marc:I mean, he made his, you know, his... When he wrote the book, it changed his life.

01:04:52Marc:Yeah, about being the kind of chef he was and what the kitchens were like.

01:04:56Marc:He was a heavy cat, man.

01:04:58Marc:But chefs are heavy cats, and it's crazy business.

01:05:01Marc:And a lot of them are like, you know, it's almost like comedy in that...

01:05:05Marc:Every time you make a plate, every time you pull it off, you get that fucking juice.

01:05:09Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:05:10Marc:They love doing that.

01:05:11Marc:Yeah, and it's so engaged.

01:05:13Marc:Oh, my God.

01:05:13Marc:I mean, it's the last job I had before comedy was just being a short order cook.

01:05:17Marc:Really?

01:05:17Marc:Where?

01:05:18Marc:Just like in Boston.

01:05:19Marc:Really?

01:05:19Marc:Edibles, yeah.

01:05:20Marc:Oh, my God.

01:05:21Marc:You know, just eggs and pancakes and shit.

01:05:22Marc:But like every time you successfully flip an egg, there's a little juice in that.

01:05:27Marc:Yeah.

01:05:28Marc:But I always thought about like if comedy didn't work out and I had to bring a resume around, they're like, how come you haven't worked in 25 years?

01:05:34Marc:Yeah.

01:05:34Marc:But I remember one time so specifically having a meeting at HBO that went nowhere.

01:05:40Marc:And we met down in the restaurant at HBO.

01:05:42Marc:And I was looking at the guy behind the counter working the grill.

01:05:44Guest:And I was thinking, I'd like to be doing that.

01:05:48Marc:What was this in New York?

01:05:49Marc:No, here.

01:05:50Guest:No, here.

01:05:50Guest:Oh, my God.

01:05:51Guest:Just like, why can't I just do that?

01:05:53Oh, my God.

01:05:54Guest:Yeah, those guys are intense.

01:05:55Guest:But they're some of my best friends.

01:05:56Guest:I mean, Bobby Flay, Michael Simon, these guys, they're the best and amazing chefs.

01:06:00Marc:Yeah.

01:06:00Marc:I've talked to some of them.

01:06:01Marc:I've talked to, you know, Alex Cornicelli.

01:06:03Marc:I've talked to Conant.

01:06:04Guest:My son produces her show.

01:06:06Guest:Oh, really?

01:06:06Marc:Your son does?

01:06:07Marc:Yeah.

01:06:07Marc:I love her.

01:06:08Guest:She's the best.

01:06:09Marc:And Conant.

01:06:10Marc:I talked to Conant.

01:06:11Marc:Yeah.

01:06:11Marc:I went to his restaurant and he showed me how to make that spaghetti that he makes.

01:06:14Marc:The best spaghetti in the world.

01:06:15Marc:But it's butter, dude.

01:06:16Marc:Yeah.

01:06:16Marc:Well, it's always butter, man.

01:06:17Marc:I guess it is.

01:06:18Marc:Yeah.

01:06:18Marc:But Scott knows what he's doing.

01:06:20Guest:So everything's going good and then you get into a horrible accident?

01:06:23Guest:Yeah.

01:06:23Guest:I'm coming back from a shoot of Restaurant Impossible, and it's raining, and I get in the cab.

01:06:30Guest:It was a hellish plane ride, bucking Bronco storms or whatever.

01:06:35Guest:You land, you go, thank God.

01:06:37Guest:I get in the cab.

01:06:38Guest:I was heading to the office in Philly, and the guy hydroplanes and takes me into a center divider in downtown Philly.

01:06:44Guest:Oh, my God.

01:06:47Guest:I didn't know this until I saw something on the news.

01:06:49Guest:I broke every bone in my face, okay?

01:06:52Guest:My teeth were all over the place.

01:06:53Guest:Oh, my God.

01:06:54Guest:I mean, they're pictures.

01:06:55Guest:It's horrendous.

01:06:57Guest:Dude.

01:06:58Guest:And I thought I was dead.

01:06:59Guest:And the other thing was I'm never going to look like Mark Summers again.

01:07:02Guest:You look good.

01:07:04Guest:This plastic surgeon in Philly just –

01:07:07Guest:Unbelievable.

01:07:09Guest:I had one other operation after the first one because I had some eye issues.

01:07:14Marc:But no brain damage?

01:07:15Guest:That's debatable.

01:07:16Guest:Talk to my wife.

01:07:18Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:20Guest:Initially, I lost a lot of memory, okay?

01:07:22Guest:Yeah.

01:07:23Guest:I got hit so hard.

01:07:24Guest:And my wife would walk in the room, and I knew I was married to her, but I couldn't think of her name.

01:07:27Guest:I mean, that went on for a while.

01:07:29Guest:Yeah.

01:07:30Guest:That must have been exciting.

01:07:31Yeah.

01:07:32Guest:Every time it was like having sex with a new woman.

01:07:35Guest:But eventually, after about six, seven months, came back.

01:07:38Guest:And, you know, I'm fine now.

01:07:40Guest:I have no feeling from here down, okay?

01:07:43Marc:From your nose down?

01:07:43Guest:Yeah, I don't feel any of that.

01:07:45Marc:Really?

01:07:45Marc:No.

01:07:46Marc:Never came back?

01:07:47Guest:Never came back.

01:07:47Guest:And so they said it's 50-50.

01:07:49Guest:So, like, when I brush my teeth, I have to look in the mirror because I'm not sure where the hell I'm at and stuff like that.

01:07:53Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:07:53Guest:Oh, wow.

01:07:54Guest:How long ago was this?

01:07:55Guest:11 years ago.

01:07:56Guest:Oh, wow.

01:07:56Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:07:57Guest:Jeez, man.

01:07:58Guest:Yeah.

01:07:58Guest:So, I mean, between OCD, cancer, and... Wait, cancer?

01:08:01Guest:Oh, you didn't know I had cancer?

01:08:02Marc:What happened?

01:08:03Marc:When was that?

01:08:03Marc:Did you do your research?

01:08:04Marc:Come on, man.

01:08:04Marc:I did, but I'm just depending on... I forgot.

01:08:06Marc:I was hoping you'd get to it.

01:08:08Marc:When did the cancer happen?

01:08:11Marc:After the face thing?

01:08:15Marc:Before the face thing.

01:08:16Marc:So you got cancer?

01:08:17Marc:You're like, oh, God, one thing after another.

01:08:19Guest:Well, yeah, you know, first, you know, you get over the OCD hump, which isn't, you know, a mental, it's a mental thing.

01:08:24Guest:It's not a, you know, serious health issue.

01:08:26Guest:But...

01:08:28Guest:I wasn't feeling good one night.

01:08:30Guest:My cow.

01:08:31Guest:Maybe I'll have it.

01:08:31Guest:It's a severe stomach pain.

01:08:33Guest:Oh, no, I don't have that.

01:08:34Guest:And went to the doctor, and they couldn't figure out what the hell it was.

01:08:38Guest:So they thought I had some blockage.

01:08:40Guest:So they said, we're going to go in and take a look.

01:08:42Guest:Colonoscopy or endoscopy.

01:08:44Guest:Something like that.

01:08:45Marc:You don't know which one.

01:08:46Guest:And when they opened me up.

01:08:47Guest:Oh, they opened you up.

01:08:47Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:08:47Guest:They did a major operation.

01:08:49Guest:Just to look?

01:08:50Guest:17 and a half inches of my small intestine came out because it had cancer.

01:08:54Guest:And so I woke up, not knowing, of course, yet that this had been the case.

01:09:00Guest:What was going on in your life then?

01:09:01Guest:Was this during the Food Network?

01:09:02Guest:Food Network, yeah.

01:09:03Guest:All Food Network stuff.

01:09:06Guest:Jeez.

01:09:06Guest:I woke up, and I said to the doctor kind of as a, you know, two Jews going to a bar.

01:09:10Guest:I said, hey, doc, do I have cancer?

01:09:11Guest:And he said, as a matter of fact, you do.

01:09:12Guest:And I went, holy shit, are you serious?

01:09:15Guest:Yeah.

01:09:15Guest:Yeah, what's the good news?

01:09:17Guest:Yeah.

01:09:17Guest:You see that?

01:09:18Guest:Is the receptionist out front?

01:09:20Guest:I'm fucking her.

01:09:22Yeah.

01:09:22Guest:I love you.

01:09:27Guest:And so, oh my God.

01:09:29Guest:So we go to an oncologist, which is a place you never want to go.

01:09:32Guest:And he went to a bone marrow extraction thing.

01:09:38Guest:And I had heard- For your gut?

01:09:39Guest:Yeah.

01:09:40Guest:And he said, I had heard it was like the most ridiculous pain in the world.

01:09:44Guest:So I got up and started to walk to the door and my wife said, where are you going?

01:09:47Guest:I said, I'm going home.

01:09:48Guest:I can't do cancer.

01:09:48Guest:And she said, no, you have to do it.

01:09:50Guest:And I said, I'm telling you, I can't.

01:09:51Guest:So we left.

01:09:52Guest:And she said, you're out of your mind.

01:09:53Guest:You've got to go do this.

01:09:54Guest:So a few days later, I called the doctor.

01:09:56Guest:He said, we're going to do it.

01:09:57Guest:They did it.

01:09:57Guest:You got kids at this time?

01:09:59Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:10:00Guest:I have a 42-year-old son and a 39-year-old daughter.

01:10:02Guest:So, yeah, I've had kids for a while.

01:10:03Guest:And so...

01:10:05Guest:They took them a week to discover what I had.

01:10:07Guest:I have something called CLL, chronic lymphatic leukemia.

01:10:10Guest:And so I was in chemo.

01:10:13Marc:And that was doing your intestines in?

01:10:15Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:10:16Guest:No shit.

01:10:16Guest:Yeah.

01:10:17Guest:And so I was on chemo for two years, then off for a while, then on a year, then off for a while.

01:10:22Guest:Then the last time they tried chemo didn't work.

01:10:25Guest:And so I'm on these pills called Imbruvica that only cost $15,000 a month.

01:10:30Guest:And that's what's been keeping me alive the last four years.

01:10:33Guest:Now, right now.

01:10:34Marc:Yeah.

01:10:35Marc:You're still on them.

01:10:36Guest:I'm still on them.

01:10:36Guest:The rest of my life, I'll be on them.

01:10:38Guest:So are they covered?

01:10:41Guest:They were.

01:10:41Guest:And then, as you remember, Screen Actors Guild and SAG took everybody over 65 and canceled their health insurance.

01:10:47Guest:During COVID.

01:10:48Guest:Yep.

01:10:49Guest:And said, it ain't coming back.

01:10:50Guest:You guys are costing us too much money.

01:10:52Guest:Ed Asner, prior to dying, got pissed off.

01:10:54Guest:I loved Ed.

01:10:55Guest:And he did a class action lawsuit and won.

01:10:58Guest:And so now I'm covered by the AFL-CIO.

01:11:01Guest:And it cost me $5 a month.

01:11:04Guest:That's fucking great.

01:11:05Marc:Good for you.

01:11:06Guest:Why should any of that medication cost that much?

01:11:08Guest:It should all be free.

01:11:09Guest:I know.

01:11:10Guest:And I called my doctor and I said, I can't afford this stuff.

01:11:12Guest:What happens if I stop taking it?

01:11:14Guest:And he said, you'll die.

01:11:14Guest:You have to keep taking it.

01:11:15Guest:Oh, my God.

01:11:16Guest:And I said, well, ah.

01:11:18Guest:What am I supposed to do?

01:11:19Guest:So University of Pennsylvania Hospital, my favorite place in the whole world, worked out a deal where they gave it to me at a discounted price, like $2,800 a month, until we figured out the insurance thing.

01:11:28Guest:And yeah, so I mean, more hours spent on the phone trying to get that stuff fixed out is unbelievable.

01:11:33Marc:Oh my God, what a fucking nightmare.

01:11:35Marc:Oh, it's horrible.

01:11:36Marc:But now you're good for the rest of it?

01:11:38Guest:Well, you know, we hope so.

01:11:39Guest:And what he said to me is, you'll probably never have to go on chemo again, because if this stuff wears off, there's another pill that they have now.

01:11:44Guest:So, you know.

01:11:45Guest:So you got the good leukemia.

01:11:46Guest:Yeah, I mean, if there is a good leukemia, I got the... Sure.

01:11:49Guest:And that's what he said.

01:11:50Guest:He said, if you have to get one, this is the one to get.

01:11:52Guest:Yeah.

01:11:52Guest:Because he said, chances are you're going to die of something else, not this.

01:11:56Marc:Wow, man.

01:11:57Marc:Man, you know, you did all right.

01:12:03Marc:You negotiated with God.

01:12:04Marc:Yeah.

01:12:05Guest:Yeah, it's been all right.

01:12:06Guest:I can't complain.

01:12:07Marc:Are you a religious person?

01:12:08Marc:I'm not anymore.

01:12:10Guest:You were, though?

01:12:10Guest:I was at one point.

01:12:12Guest:At what point?

01:12:13Guest:As a younger person and then growing up, seeing, you know, both my mother-in-law and father-in-law were in Auschwitz for four years.

01:12:20Guest:Really?

01:12:21Guest:Yeah.

01:12:22Guest:Lots of stories there.

01:12:23Guest:They tell them?

01:12:24Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:12:25Guest:I got them on videotape on a lot of the stuff.

01:12:28Guest:Where's that stuff going?

01:12:29Guest:Yeah.

01:12:29Guest:I don't know.

01:12:29Guest:I have, but they did the— Have they passed?

01:12:32Guest:Yeah, they did the Spielberg thing, though.

01:12:35Guest:They were recorded with all that information.

01:12:37Guest:And I got a private tour of Auschwitz, and that was— VIP?

01:12:41Guest:Yeah, VIP, honest to God.

01:12:43Marc:But because we had all the stories that they had— If you're a Jew that had relatives in Auschwitz, they'll close the park for you.

01:12:50Guest:That's right.

01:12:52Guest:You can go on all the rides.

01:12:53Guest:Yeah.

01:12:55Guest:I had a backstage pass.

01:12:57Guest:It was fantastic.

01:12:58Guest:Good for you, man.

01:12:58Guest:But, you know, because they told us so many stories, we went in and said, you know, my mother-in-law used to cut the shoes open to get the jewelry out that they would hide.

01:13:05Guest:And, you know, where did that take place?

01:13:08Guest:And so we would tell them all these stories, and they'd take us to wear those things.

01:13:11Guest:Oh, my God.

01:13:11Guest:They went with you?

01:13:12Guest:Yeah.

01:13:12Guest:No, not my in-laws.

01:13:13Guest:They were passed at that point.

01:13:14Guest:But the guy who toured us around, he was in charge of the website of Auschwitz, so he knew all this stuff.

01:13:20Marc:Yeah, I follow them on Twitter.

01:13:21Marc:And it's so funny because I follow a bunch of comics and then just Auschwitz.

01:13:25Marc:Yeah.

01:13:25Marc:So you get jokes and get some cultural insight.

01:13:28Marc:And then like on this day in 19, they have these pictures of these inmates.

01:13:32Marc:Oh, it's horrible.

01:13:33Marc:Oh, dude.

01:13:38Marc:I do material.

01:13:40Marc:In my new special, there's an Auschwitz thing.

01:13:43Marc:But it's weird because, like, the Jew thing, which I've been talking about, because I find that in the face of anti-Semitism, all I can do is annoy anti-Semites.

01:13:52Marc:Yeah.

01:13:53Marc:It's our job.

01:13:54Marc:It's a gig.

01:13:56Marc:But, you know, I've been talking about, in terms of religion, I say I'm not religious.

01:14:01Marc:I'm a Jew.

01:14:01Marc:Yeah.

01:14:02Marc:It's a lifestyle, man.

01:14:03Marc:That's what it is.

01:14:03Marc:No, but the thing is, it's like, you know, people ask me, like, do Jews have heaven?

01:14:06Marc:You're like, it's not clear.

01:14:08Marc:I don't—it wasn't explained to me.

01:14:10Marc:At all, you know?

01:14:11Marc:How about hell?

01:14:12Marc:We don't know.

01:14:13Yeah.

01:14:13Marc:We'll figure it out at some point.

01:14:15Marc:All we know is we have to work harder and we're special.

01:14:17Marc:That's it.

01:14:18Marc:That's it.

01:14:18Marc:Two percent of the world and everybody hates us.

01:14:20Marc:Yeah.

01:14:21Marc:Why?

01:14:21Marc:Because we figured something out.

01:14:23Marc:You think we're running the world?

01:14:24Marc:That means you're stupid.

01:14:25Guest:Did you see the videotape where they asked Robin Williams?

01:14:27Guest:He was in Germany.

01:14:28Guest:And they said, why do you think we have a lot of comedians?

01:14:30Guest:And he said, maybe because you killed them all.

01:14:33Marc:Yeah.

01:14:34Marc:Wow.

01:14:34Marc:Good for him.

01:14:35Marc:So what's the new show?

01:14:37Marc:You're doing a podcast?

01:14:38Guest:Doing a podcast.

01:14:39Marc:I got talked into this.

01:14:40Marc:Right in time, dude.

01:14:41Marc:You're right on the cutting edge.

01:14:43Guest:There's 850,000 podcasts.

01:14:46Guest:Why am I going to break through?

01:14:47Marc:Yours is going to be the one.

01:14:49Guest:It's called Mark Summers Unwraps.

01:14:52Guest:What do you mean you got talked into it?

01:14:54Guest:Well, I got offered these things all the time.

01:14:57Guest:During COVID, I did 500 podcasts.

01:15:00Guest:Now, you live in Philly?

01:15:01Guest:No, I live in Montecito.

01:15:02Guest:Okay, so you're out of Philly.

01:15:03Guest:I'm out of Philly.

01:15:04Guest:I moved out of there about five years ago.

01:15:06Guest:And so— You used to do Preston and Steve?

01:15:09Guest:I still do it.

01:15:10Guest:I love those teams.

01:15:11Guest:They're the best morning team ever.

01:15:12Guest:Totally.

01:15:13Guest:Ever, ever, ever.

01:15:13Guest:Totally.

01:15:14Guest:I've been doing that show as a regular 12-14.

01:15:16Marc:Yeah, it's so fun to do a real crew.

01:15:18Marc:They know what they're doing.

01:15:19Marc:Totally.

01:15:19Guest:And here's the best part about that show, as opposed to a regular morning team, they don't talk over each other at all.

01:15:24Guest:Okay.

01:15:24Marc:Yeah, and they love—the great thing about Morning Radio, because I actually had to—I hosted some Morning Radio, is that all they want you to do is show up for work.

01:15:32Marc:Yes.

01:15:33Marc:Like there's no worse when they have a comedian that's a dud.

01:15:36Marc:Oh my God.

01:15:36Marc:And so many of them are.

01:15:37Marc:They just, cause it's six in the morning.

01:15:39Marc:I know.

01:15:39Marc:I don't care if it's three in the morning.

01:15:40Marc:I want to do it.

01:15:41Marc:Yeah.

01:15:41Marc:You want to get, I want to get into the energy.

01:15:43Marc:Cause if they're going, if you walk in at seven o'clock to do a spot on a morning show and you just feel like, you know, they're all looking at you like, we got a good thing going.

01:15:51Marc:Are you going to fuck it up?

01:15:52Marc:No, you better not.

01:15:53Guest:No, yeah.

01:15:54Guest:Yeah, Philly's a great place.

01:15:55Guest:I mean, I loved living there.

01:15:58Guest:I lived in New York for a while.

01:15:59Marc:The Knicks.

01:16:00Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:16:01Guest:Oh, great.

01:16:02Guest:It's just, there's so many.

01:16:03Guest:I mean, the food in Philly is not to be believed.

01:16:05Marc:No, I know.

01:16:06Marc:I drove out to John's to get the original.

01:16:08Marc:Did you really?

01:16:08Marc:Yeah.

01:16:09Marc:Did you get the pork?

01:16:10Marc:Yeah, the pork with the rob, right?

01:16:12Guest:If you went in that kitchen, you'd never eat it again.

01:16:14Marc:Yeah.

01:16:14Guest:Oh, my God.

01:16:15Marc:No, no.

01:16:15Marc:I preferred the Knicks.

01:16:17Marc:Did you really?

01:16:17Marc:In Reading Market.

01:16:18Marc:Yeah, but I knew the original was John's.

01:16:20Marc:Yeah.

01:16:20Marc:This is back when I'm like, if I'm going to a place, I'm going to eat their shit.

01:16:25Marc:But I just liked the Knicks better.

01:16:27Marc:What about Tony Luke's?

01:16:28Marc:Tony, the subs, the cheesesteaks?

01:16:32Marc:I don't know where I fall in that world.

01:16:35Marc:What's the other place?

01:16:36Marc:Geno's?

01:16:37Guest:Geno's and Tony's?

01:16:38Guest:Yeah.

01:16:40Guest:There's so many places there that are so darn good.

01:16:41Marc:Yeah, I don't get involved with that.

01:16:42Marc:Yeah.

01:16:43Marc:I'm pretty specific about pizza in Chicago.

01:16:45Marc:There's no good pizza in Chicago.

01:16:47Marc:Give me a break.

01:16:47Marc:No, but you let it be what it's going to be.

01:16:50Marc:Oh, that stuff that's 400 pounds of bread.

01:16:52Marc:Dude, Lou Malnati's is great.

01:16:54Marc:I love it.

01:16:55Marc:I love it.

01:16:55Marc:I don't get it.

01:16:57Marc:I don't get it.

01:16:57Marc:What do you mean?

01:16:58Marc:Don't look at this pizza.

01:16:59Marc:Is that going to help you?

01:17:00Marc:Well, you don't like bread and sauce and cheese?

01:17:01Guest:No, I want to be able to read a newspaper through the crust.

01:17:04Marc:I want it to be thin.

01:17:04Marc:Well, that's different.

01:17:05Marc:That's different.

01:17:06Marc:You can only get that in New York.

01:17:07Marc:You can't get it.

01:17:07Marc:No, you get it in Philly.

01:17:08Marc:You get it in Boston.

01:17:09Marc:Boston where?

01:17:10Marc:Boston.

01:17:10Marc:Oh, every place.

01:17:11Marc:Are you kidding?

01:17:12Marc:Stop it.

01:17:13Marc:They used to have Pizza Pad in Kenmore Square.

01:17:15Guest:Pizza Pad was the best.

01:17:16Guest:I know.

01:17:17Guest:I lived at the Pizza Pad.

01:17:18Marc:I know, dude.

01:17:18Guest:I did, too.

01:17:19Guest:Oh, my God.

01:17:19Guest:It was great slice, man.

01:17:20Marc:Oh, I spent thousands of dollars on Pizza Pad.

01:17:24Marc:Because that's where you'd end up?

01:17:25Marc:Yeah.

01:17:25Marc:It was open until 3 in the morning.

01:17:27Guest:There's a place in Santa Barbara called Bettina's.

01:17:30Guest:Okay.

01:17:30Guest:Incredible.

01:17:31Guest:Come up there.

01:17:32Marc:I'll buy you in there.

01:17:32Marc:But like circular pieces, not the wood oven pitch?

01:17:34Marc:Of course the wood oven.

01:17:36Marc:You got to have an oven at 900 degrees.

01:17:39Marc:No, I know.

01:17:40Marc:So you want to be able to hold the slice and it sticks out.

01:17:42Marc:There you go.

01:17:42Marc:I know.

01:17:43Guest:Yeah.

01:17:44Marc:Like, what is it?

01:17:46Marc:Joe's in New York, right?

01:17:47Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:17:49Marc:Yeah.

01:17:49Marc:I don't know about pizza.

01:17:51Marc:I don't eat a lot of pizza unless I'm... It's my favorite food.

01:17:54Marc:Really?

01:17:54Marc:Yeah.

01:17:55Marc:You don't have Ashkenazi cholesterol problems?

01:17:58Guest:Not with all the medication I take.

01:18:00Guest:Oh, my God.

01:18:00Guest:Yeah, Mark Vetri is the king of pizza.

01:18:02Guest:Next time you go to Philly, you got to go to Vetri.

01:18:04Guest:I heard that.

01:18:05Marc:I heard that.

01:18:05Marc:Yeah.

01:18:06Guest:But if you go to Vegas, he's got a place there that's really good.

01:18:10Guest:You know who knows all about pizza?

01:18:11Guest:Jimmy Kimmel is the king of pizza.

01:18:12Marc:But is that the guy that did the Cafe Bianco here or the pizza?

01:18:15Guest:Well, he was with him.

01:18:17Guest:He's best friends with him.

01:18:18Guest:Yeah, but Kimmel and Bianco were best friends.

01:18:20Guest:Okay.

01:18:20Guest:Yeah.

01:18:21Guest:And Bianco's got a place here in downtown L.A.

01:18:23Marc:now.

01:18:23Guest:So what's the show?

01:18:24Guest:It's called Mark Summers Unwraps.

01:18:26Guest:Let's see.

01:18:26Guest:Kicking off with Anthony Ramos.

01:18:29Guest:I was doing summer stock.

01:18:30Guest:I was doing Grease.

01:18:33Guest:I was playing Vince Fontaine.

01:18:34Guest:When was this?

01:18:35Guest:This was 10, 11 years ago.

01:18:38Guest:You were doing summer stock?

01:18:39Guest:Yeah, I was doing summer stock.

01:18:40Marc:and um how often does that happen is that a choice is that yeah i've got a one-man show that's coming back uh this summer is it about cancer and getting your face smashed the one-man show is yeah yeah and and uh there was a 17 year old kid who was amazing and as oh no of course i know anthony yeah i was in a movie with him oh you were i'm sorry yeah no anthony hamilton yeah he's great i was in bad guys with him okay he's great he stars in every movie that's just i don't know why i didn't like that so anthony's our first

01:19:06Guest:guest.

01:19:07Marc:Oh, he's the best.

01:19:07Guest:I've known him forever.

01:19:08Guest:He's the best.

01:19:09Guest:Guy Fieri, I think, is our second guest.

01:19:12Guest:Al Roker was on.

01:19:13Guest:Fluffy.

01:19:14Marc:Is Al Roker doing a one-man show about his problems?

01:19:16Marc:No, he's fine.

01:19:17Guest:You guys should tour the country together.

01:19:22Guest:And Fluffy.

01:19:23Guest:We just had Gabriel on.

01:19:24Guest:He was fantastic.

01:19:25Marc:So what the idea is about obstacles?

01:19:27Guest:Yeah, overcoming obstacles and why some people are successful.

01:19:30Guest:And, you know, you go to a movie or Broadway show or TV and you say, well, those people are lucky.

01:19:34Guest:And you go, no, they're not lucky.

01:19:35Guest:They work their asses off to get there.

01:19:36Guest:That's for sure.

01:19:37Guest:And what you don't know is, I mean, I don't know how long we've even been talking.

01:19:39Guest:I don't even know.

01:19:40Guest:But, you know, to hear all this silliness that I've been through and that I'm still sitting here talking and playing show business.

01:19:46Guest:Yeah.

01:19:47Guest:What the hell, man?

01:19:48Guest:You know, I've never worked a day in my life.

01:19:49Guest:I've been so fortunate.

01:19:51Marc:I think the answer is persistent selfishness.

01:19:53Marc:think selfishness do you really uh no maybe that's the wrong word it's uh but there's something about you know the guys like you and whatever i've been through i'm in the moment i'm not thinking how am i going to go over the get over this obstacle i'm not i don't think anybody consciously thinks that well i mean but people write about it like people consciously think about it no i think you

01:20:17Guest:You either do it or you don't.

01:20:18Guest:That's right.

01:20:19Marc:That's what I'm saying.

01:20:20Marc:Either you're going to get bitter, like in our business.

01:20:24Marc:What kills you is bitterness or self-pity, and you don't look at it as giving up or just bad luck.

01:20:36Marc:There's some mixture of...

01:20:38Marc:I think you have to be delusional.

01:20:40Marc:To a certain extent.

01:20:42Marc:And then eventually when that wears off and you've landed somewhere, you have to have acceptance.

01:20:47Guest:But here's the deal.

01:20:48Guest:I knew as a kid from Indiana watching the Ed Sullivan show that I had zero talent.

01:20:54Guest:And I can almost say that now with one exception in that I'm really good at being me and I'm a good host.

01:20:58Guest:But it took me forever to learn how to be a good host.

01:21:01Guest:You're quick.

01:21:01Guest:Yeah, I am now, but it took years.

01:21:03Guest:The day I became a host was this.

01:21:04Guest:I was doing a show called The Home Show on ABC.

01:21:06Guest:Gary Collins was the host.

01:21:08Guest:I remember that guy.

01:21:09Guest:And he took off a week and they filled me in and let me do the hosting for a week.

01:21:12Marc:You saw your opportunity, didn't you?

01:21:15Guest:Well, you know, here's what I did.

01:21:17Guest:Yeah.

01:21:17Guest:I studied too hard and I knew too much information.

01:21:20Guest:Yeah.

01:21:21Guest:And I did not let the other people talk.

01:21:23Guest:And I was trying to show everybody how smart I was.

01:21:25Guest:Yeah, I've been.

01:21:25Guest:I've done that.

01:21:26Guest:OK.

01:21:26Guest:Yeah.

01:21:27Guest:And ABC Network came out and said to our executives, he ain't doing the show tomorrow.

01:21:35Guest:We're not dealing with this.

01:21:36Guest:And Woody Frazier cleared a desk and said, I'm sticking with him.

01:21:39Guest:I think he's great.

01:21:40Guest:He pulled me in his office.

01:21:41Guest:He said, look, they want to blow you up.

01:21:43Guest:I'm going to give you it until tomorrow.

01:21:44Guest:If you don't get your shit together tomorrow, you're out of here.

01:21:46Marc:Did he tell you how, though?

01:21:47Marc:Did he tell you to shut up?

01:21:48Guest:Well, here's what happened.

01:21:49Guest:So he said, I'm going to send the material to your house tonight, study it.

01:21:51Guest:So I studied it.

01:21:52Guest:We were going to live at 8 o'clock West Coast time, 11 o'clock East Coast time.

01:21:58Guest:I was wearing an IFB earpiece, and he said to me, did you study last night?

01:22:01Guest:Do you know all the information that you're supposed to know?

01:22:04Guest:I said, yeah.

01:22:04Guest:And he said, now forget everything you just read and go out and have a conversation.

01:22:08Guest:And that turned my life around.

01:22:09Guest:Wow.

01:22:10Guest:And I went, you know what?

01:22:11Guest:He's right.

01:22:12Guest:And so if you and I can just talk.

01:22:14Guest:Yeah.

01:22:15Guest:And by the way, I know enough about you.

01:22:16Guest:You know enough about me.

01:22:18Guest:You know, you had to plug the podcast.

01:22:22Guest:But we talked about so many other things.

01:22:23Guest:Sure.

01:22:24Guest:But not everybody can do that.

01:22:25Guest:Yeah.

01:22:26Guest:Sure.

01:22:27Guest:That's your talent.

01:22:28Guest:Well, yeah, that's my talent.

01:22:29Guest:There you go.

01:22:29Guest:And that's what I learned.

01:22:30Guest:Yeah.

01:22:30Guest:Okay.

01:22:30Guest:I wasn't good at stand-up.

01:22:32Guest:Right.

01:22:33Guest:I happen to be good at both.

01:22:35Marc:You do.

01:22:36Guest:You do.

01:22:36Guest:I'm kidding.

01:22:37Guest:No, but you do.

01:22:38Guest:You're getting specials on Netflix and all these things, and you're kicking ass and taking names.

01:22:42Guest:But you put in the time, too, man.

01:22:44Marc:But we're kind of dicks, aren't we?

01:22:45Marc:Yeah.

01:22:46Marc:You have to be.

01:22:47Marc:I think that's the key to getting over obstacles.

01:22:50Guest:You think so?

01:22:51Marc:Yeah, that was what I was looking for.

01:22:52Marc:I just didn't.

01:22:54Marc:I just didn't know how to say it.

01:22:55Marc:I'm a professional penis.

01:22:57Guest:You're a dick.

01:22:58Guest:I saw it on Burt Reynolds.

01:23:00Guest:The whole thing is just being a dick.

01:23:04Guest:You know what?

01:23:05Guest:I've had so many interviews since 1994.

01:23:08Guest:God damn it, you figured it out.

01:23:11Guest:Professional dick.

01:23:12Guest:But I'm circumcised.

01:23:16Marc:But you turn on the charm for the hosting.

01:23:18Marc:But inside, you've got the dick inside.

01:23:20Guest:Well, you know, I'll say lines at home that are things that you shouldn't say.

01:23:25Marc:Well, you've got to blow off steam.

01:23:27Marc:Exactly.

01:23:27Guest:And my wife will go, yeah, nice Mr. Double Dare.

01:23:30Guest:My wife always says that to me.

01:23:31Guest:She says, if they only knew.

01:23:33Guest:Yeah, if they only knew.

01:23:35Guest:The world.

01:23:36Guest:Because I have a sick sense of humor.

01:23:37Guest:Of course.

01:23:38Guest:My opening line, Alice wanted to divorce me.

01:23:41Guest:I said, my wife is Greek on our wedding night.

01:23:43Guest:She walked down the aisle backwards.

01:23:44Guest:I mean, she used to go bizarre.

01:23:46Guest:Is she Greek?

01:23:47Guest:Yeah, she is Greek.

01:23:48Guest:Greek Jew.

01:23:48Guest:Wow.

01:23:49Guest:Yeah.

01:23:50Guest:Yeah.

01:23:50Guest:There you go.

01:23:51Marc:A Greek Jew marries an Indiana Jew.

01:23:53Marc:Yeah.

01:23:53Marc:That's crazy.

01:23:54Marc:Sephardic Ashkenazi.

01:23:55Marc:Sephardic, so they came from, where'd they run from?

01:23:57Marc:Spain?

01:23:58Guest:Oh, Spain.

01:23:58Guest:Huh.

01:23:59Guest:And ended up in Thessaloniki, Greece.

01:24:01Marc:Wild.

01:24:02Marc:See, that's how Jews get places, avoiding death.

01:24:04Marc:Amazing.

01:24:04Marc:Good talking to you, man.

01:24:06Guest:This was a ball.

01:24:07Guest:I got to tell you, I've been lucky enough to do, I did Stern, I did The Tonight Show, I did Oprah.

01:24:12Guest:Yeah.

01:24:12Guest:I was nervous about coming over here.

01:24:14Marc:Really?

01:24:14Guest:Because I admire the hell out of you.

01:24:15Marc:Oh, thanks.

01:24:15Guest:And you're a pioneer at this thing, and you do it so well, that's why you're still on the air.

01:24:19Guest:So thanks for having me.

01:24:20Marc:Oh, that's very nice.

01:24:20Marc:I appreciate it.

01:24:21Guest:Great talking to you.

01:24:22Guest:Same here, sir.

01:24:25Marc:There you go.

01:24:28Marc:We got to the core of it.

01:24:29Marc:We got to the bottom of it.

01:24:30Marc:Mark Summers Unwraps is out now and you can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts.

01:24:35Marc:And now I need to ask you to hang out for a minute.

01:24:37Marc:Don't go.

01:24:38Marc:Seriously.

01:24:41Marc:On Thursday, folks, Tim Blake Nilsson is back on the show.

01:24:44Marc:He was on about five years ago, and we had a great talk.

01:24:47Marc:And he's written a novel, and because he's such an easy guy to talk to, we had him back.

01:24:51Marc:And the novel is very good.

01:24:54Marc:City of Blows.

01:24:55Marc:When I talked to him, I hadn't finished it yet, but I'm planning on being done by the time I talk to you and introduce that episode on Thursday.

01:25:04Marc:I've got homework, man.

01:25:05Marc:I'm going to be making Kraut and finishing his book.

01:25:08Marc:If you want to catch up on that earlier episode with Tim Blake Nielsen, it's episode number 973, and it's available right now in the free feed.

01:25:17Guest:I would get there at around nine.

01:25:19Guest:I had a day job.

01:25:20Guest:I worked at the Boulangerie in this restaurant called the Boulangerie in Venice, making sandwiches during the day.

01:25:30Guest:And then I would get to the Laugh Factory at about nine,

01:25:34Guest:And I would keep getting bumped because I wasn't very good.

01:25:37Guest:Yeah.

01:25:38Guest:Go on about one.

01:25:39Guest:Yeah.

01:25:40Guest:Go on at about one for nine people.

01:25:42Guest:Yeah.

01:25:42Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:25:43Guest:Yeah.

01:25:44Guest:And just wait and wait.

01:25:45Guest:Welcome to it.

01:25:47Guest:Well, yeah.

01:25:48Guest:And I never got past that rung.

01:25:50Guest:And I at the end of the summer, I said.

01:25:52Guest:Acting.

01:25:54Guest:So I've done... I did stand-up for a summer, and I did theater for a summer, and I'm not going to do anything to help the... I'm not doing anything new as a comedian.

01:26:07Guest:I would get to watch for three hours a night.

01:26:11Marc:Oh, yeah, and just chip away at your confidence, and you just sit there.

01:26:15Marc:You watch the audience leave.

01:26:17Marc:You watch all these big acts come on.

01:26:19Guest:Yeah, but they were really good, and I thought...

01:26:22Guest:It chipped away at my confidence, but at least for me, that wasn't the worst thing in the world, certainly not for the art of comedy.

01:26:30Guest:I wasn't going to end up developing, you know, like a Lou Black persona or something.

01:26:36Guest:How do you know?

01:26:37Guest:I guess I don't know, but I'm pretty confident.

01:26:40Marc:Well, it's good that you understand the limitations of your talent, but most of us who get into comedy, we just plow on.

01:26:49Marc:I mean, it's like in my mind, you chose the more difficult path in a way.

01:26:54Marc:I think stand-up comedy is the more difficult path.

01:26:57Guest:I actually do.

01:26:58Marc:To get every episode of WTF ad-free, sign up for WTF Plus by clicking the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF Plus.

01:27:09Marc:And speaking of links in the episode description, just reminding you that there's a link there for you to submit a question that I can answer on next week's Ask Mark Anything episode for full Marin subscribers.

01:27:22Marc:All right?

01:27:23Marc:Okay.

01:27:24Marc:Let's get into the brining process.

01:27:26Marc:Let's start the brining.

01:27:27Marc:Here's some guitar.

01:27:46guitar solo

01:28:42guitar solo

01:29:11guitar solo

01:29:39.

01:30:07.

01:30:09Marc:Boomer lives.

01:30:33Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.

01:30:35Marc:Cat angels everywhere.

01:30:39All right.