Episode 1399 - Katt Williams

Episode 1399 • Released January 9, 2023 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:11Marc:How are you?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fuck stirs?

00:00:15Marc:Did I say that?

00:00:16Marc:No.

00:00:16Marc:How could I?

00:00:17Marc:I did three.

00:00:19Marc:I can't remember.

00:00:20Marc:I'm losing it.

00:00:21Marc:How's it going?

00:00:23Marc:How are you?

00:00:24Marc:Is everything all right?

00:00:25Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.

00:00:26Marc:Welcome to it.

00:00:27Marc:If you're new here, just hang out.

00:00:29Marc:You'll get used to it.

00:00:31Marc:We've got plans, man.

00:00:32Marc:Brendan's coming out here.

00:00:33Marc:We're going to go see some wrestling.

00:00:35Marc:He's going to try to get me to lock in.

00:00:37Marc:We got big wrestling days ahead.

00:00:40Marc:This Wednesday, we're doing a thing.

00:00:42Marc:One of the wrestlers was over at the Comedy Store the other night.

00:00:45Marc:I think they do a wrestling podcast in the basement there.

00:00:48Marc:But even though I was on GLOW for three seasons, I understand wrestling for the most part.

00:00:55Marc:But Brendan wants to get me to feel it with my heart, man.

00:01:01Marc:Cat Williams.

00:01:01Marc:I talked to Cat Williams today.

00:01:03Marc:Now, Cat Williams is just a monster stand-up.

00:01:07Marc:Inarguably one of the best...

00:01:10Marc:The specials are always chaotic and alive and ballsy.

00:01:19Marc:But he's also an actor.

00:01:20Marc:He won an Emmy a few years ago for his guest starring role on Atlanta, which we did not talk about at all.

00:01:26Marc:Zero.

00:01:28Marc:I was kind of, I didn't know what to expect.

00:01:29Marc:I was a bit nervous.

00:01:31Marc:But he was very kind of a level man.

00:01:34Marc:I really thought we would be, you know, I would have to strap in.

00:01:38Marc:But Cat was level.

00:01:39Marc:You know, I'm not sure if he was putting one over on me, but he was relaxed, focused, and I was ready to go.

00:01:47Marc:I didn't know what I was going to get into, but we had a nice talk about stand-up comedy.

00:01:54Marc:How he got into it, you know, what his journey was in the form.

00:02:00Marc:And it was great.

00:02:01Marc:It was truly great to talk to Cat Williams.

00:02:05Marc:I've been waiting a long time to do it.

00:02:06Marc:I didn't know if it was ever going to happen.

00:02:08Marc:I was nervous to do it and we did it.

00:02:10Marc:And it was a good time.

00:02:14Marc:Good talk.

00:02:15Marc:But I tell you, man, I've just been home.

00:02:18Marc:I've been, you know, risking my life a bit, taking some chances, unnecessary chances, people.

00:02:26Marc:Why do we do it?

00:02:28Marc:Why do I do it?

00:02:30Marc:Why do I got to put that in the way?

00:02:31Marc:Why do I have to take it to the edge?

00:02:35Marc:Do you know what I'm saying?

00:02:36Marc:I guess I have that in my personality, but, you know, there's limited means with no drugs, no booze.

00:02:45Marc:You know?

00:02:46Marc:You can only, you know, you can only, like, you can do it with driving a car fast.

00:02:51Yeah.

00:02:52Marc:Or, I don't know, eating yourself to death is a slogan.

00:02:57Marc:But what happened the other day is that we had a torrential downpour here.

00:03:02Marc:And I am, my brain, there's always part of my brain that is actively concerned and at the edge of panic.

00:03:11Marc:I guess in between concern and panic is chronic worry that is just kind of always percolating in my brain about something.

00:03:21Marc:It seems to need to be.

00:03:23Marc:And during the torrential downpour, which was gnarly and beautiful, man, when Southern California gets water, I don't care if it comes down in like tanks of water.

00:03:37Marc:I don't care if it's incomprehensible how much water is coming down.

00:03:43Marc:I'm in it.

00:03:44Marc:I'm all for it.

00:03:46Marc:I'm excited about it.

00:03:47Marc:We need fucking water here.

00:03:49Marc:Always.

00:03:50Marc:Because we need to grow out the underbrush so, you know, in a few weeks it can dry out and provide kindling for when the fires come.

00:03:59Marc:That's what we do here.

00:04:01Marc:Just fires and rain.

00:04:04Marc:No in between.

00:04:06Marc:But anyway, so it's a torrential downpour.

00:04:09Marc:And of course, I'm in the house and I'm laying there and I'm like, why is that water coming off the top of the house like that?

00:04:16Marc:I can hear it.

00:04:16Marc:It seems odd.

00:04:17Marc:Are my gutters fucked up?

00:04:19Marc:Are my rain gutters fucked up?

00:04:20Marc:Now, look.

00:04:21Marc:Even if the rain gutters are fucked up, doesn't matter.

00:04:23Marc:What's the worst that could happen?

00:04:25Marc:My roof has got a good pitch to it.

00:04:27Marc:There's no water going to come in the house, but the gutter might fall down if it's clogged up or fucked up.

00:04:32Marc:But that was the worst that could happen.

00:04:33Marc:But I'm like, I got to get out there.

00:04:36Marc:I got to get the ladder up there.

00:04:37Marc:I got to get the big ladder, go up to the high part of the roof and check that fucking gutter.

00:04:42Marc:So I'm out there in the downpour.

00:04:45Marc:Nobody around, nobody to hold the ladder at the bottom.

00:04:49Marc:I'm like, I got to do it.

00:04:50Marc:I couldn't stop myself from doing it.

00:04:52Marc:Kit said, like, don't be dumb.

00:04:54Marc:Wait.

00:04:54Marc:You know, so let me be there so I can hold the ladder, whatever.

00:04:57Marc:And I'm like, all right, no problem.

00:04:58Marc:But I'm out in it.

00:05:00Marc:And some of you may remember years ago when I was with Jessica, I fell off the ladder.

00:05:05Marc:You know, pretty good.

00:05:07Marc:Pretty good fall.

00:05:08Marc:Didn't hurt myself.

00:05:10Marc:Lucked out.

00:05:10Marc:And you know, you know, man, anytime, you know, you're getting a ladder in the rain, it's not going to go a great place.

00:05:19Marc:The odds are not with you, really.

00:05:22Marc:But, you know, I got focused, man.

00:05:23Marc:I got, I needed to do it.

00:05:25Marc:Because I think ultimately it has something to do.

00:05:28Marc:Sure.

00:05:29Marc:I was worried about the gutter, but there was, you know, but there's another part of me that's sort of like, man, let's take it to the edge.

00:05:35Marc:Let's live, man.

00:05:36Marc:Don't hold back.

00:05:38Marc:Go out there.

00:05:39Marc:We're in the mud.

00:05:41Marc:Get that fucking ladder.

00:05:43Marc:Be a dumb man.

00:05:45Marc:Go out there and do the dumb man thing.

00:05:48Marc:Put the ladder up, no support, no help.

00:05:52Marc:Climb up there in the rain and look at that fucking gutter and just see what happens.

00:05:58Marc:See if you fall down.

00:05:59Marc:See if you take the gutter down with you.

00:06:01Marc:See if you end up in a fucking wheelchair, stupid.

00:06:05Marc:But all that aside, the gutter was really clogged with roofing stuff and with leaves.

00:06:12Marc:And I tried to get as much done as I could.

00:06:15Marc:I brought a hose up there.

00:06:15Marc:Yeah, so I'm on the ladder that's at an angle kind of against the building, but also leaning a bit.

00:06:21Marc:And I pull a hose up there.

00:06:22Marc:So I'm really kind of riding the edge, man.

00:06:27Marc:And I survived.

00:06:29Marc:Thank you very much.

00:06:30Marc:I did it.

00:06:31Marc:I did it.

00:06:32Marc:I get the dum-dum award and I don't even know if I fixed anything.

00:06:35Marc:So that was something.

00:06:39Marc:I'm just telling you because I feel ashamed of my decision to go ahead and do it.

00:06:45Marc:And then to tell Kit like, I did it and I'm okay.

00:06:49Marc:But you don't get any, you just, you did something stupid and you got away with it.

00:06:54Marc:It's not like, you know, oh good, I'm glad you fixed that.

00:06:56Marc:It's like, you fucking idiot.

00:06:59Marc:All right.

00:06:59Marc:Well, did you learn anything?

00:07:01Marc:Yeah, I learned that, you know, it could go either way up there, man.

00:07:09Marc:And I made it through.

00:07:11Marc:Dumb ladder man.

00:07:13Marc:That's me.

00:07:14Marc:So yeah, I've been doing a lot of stuff around the house, a lot of stuff unfolding.

00:07:17Marc:There is this element of like, what do I have coming up?

00:07:20Marc:What do I have coming up?

00:07:21Marc:What do I have coming up?

00:07:22Marc:And it's really just the podcast and whatever I'm making of my comedy life.

00:07:26Marc:But this Saturday, Largo, the band we're going to play,

00:07:31Marc:I think we got a pretty good lineup of songs.

00:07:35Marc:I'm thinking maybe we'll do an interesting version of Sympathy for the Devil.

00:07:39Marc:I know it's hack, but I can get behind it, man.

00:07:43Marc:I can get behind it.

00:07:45Marc:I've been watching film noirs.

00:07:50Marc:And I don't think I ever put the time in to really appreciate them.

00:07:54Marc:Like, I have a few favorites, but it's not because I've watched a hundred of them.

00:07:59Marc:It's just because those are the ones that locked in.

00:08:01Marc:And for most of my life, I just couldn't get past the language or the stilted dialogue.

00:08:06Marc:I could appreciate it, and I understood they were important in the context of the history of film, but I couldn't connect with them for some reason.

00:08:14Marc:And now I am all of a sudden.

00:08:17Marc:I can't even explain it.

00:08:20Marc:But it might have something to do with Alan Ladd and Veronica Lake.

00:08:24Marc:They're just I'm watching them on the Criterion Channel.

00:08:26Marc:I watched The Glass Key.

00:08:28Marc:I watched Gun for Hire.

00:08:29Marc:I watched I'm in the middle of Blue Dahlia.

00:08:32Marc:And I'm just sort of it's ridiculous that I'm like, oh, my God, this Alan Ladd guy's really good.

00:08:39Marc:Has anyone seen this Alan Ladd guy?

00:08:42Marc:Does anyone know this Veronica Lake actress?

00:08:44Marc:I mean, she's really got something.

00:08:47Marc:People should pay attention to Veronica Lake.

00:08:49Marc:I think she's going to be something.

00:08:52Marc:But man, I'm just getting into these movies.

00:08:55Marc:And then like William Bendix...

00:08:59Marc:is in two of them.

00:09:01Marc:I think he's in The Glass Key and he's in The Blue Dahlia.

00:09:03Marc:He plays a heavy, I believe, in The Glass Key.

00:09:06Marc:And in The Blue Dahlia, he plays one of the guys.

00:09:08Marc:He plays a guy with a plate in his head.

00:09:10Marc:Now, I know the face and I know the name William Bendix, but I didn't know, I don't know if I've ever really paid attention to him in the movie.

00:09:18Marc:And the reason I know his face is because when I was a little kid, I would say 11 or 12 years old,

00:09:28Marc:I had a book called Immortals of the Screen.

00:09:32Marc:It was a hardcover book, a coffee table book, and it was just pictures and biographies of mostly silent and early film actors.

00:09:44Marc:And I can remember the pictures in those books.

00:09:45Marc:And I memorized the faces of these actors.

00:09:48Marc:And I knew a lot of them, you know, Tyrone Power, William Bendix was in there, Humphrey Bogart, Bacall, Marie Dressler from The Silence.

00:09:59Marc:It was an odd bunch of studio players, all in black and white.

00:10:04Marc:But I was obsessed with it.

00:10:05Marc:But I never really got obsessed with old movies.

00:10:08Marc:I was only obsessed with the pictures of these old movie stars.

00:10:12Marc:It's a bizarre thing, but it was a real thing.

00:10:16Marc:I could name like Lionel Barrymore by face.

00:10:20Marc:It was a bizarre obsession that did not lead to an obsession with old movies.

00:10:28Marc:But it stuck with me.

00:10:30Marc:And when I saw William Bendix, who was great, great character actor, I was like, I know that guy.

00:10:37Marc:I know that guy's face.

00:10:38Marc:Because I looked at that book constantly when I was a kid.

00:10:42Marc:And today...

00:10:44Marc:I went online and I found it came out.

00:10:48Marc:I think it came out like 1965, that book.

00:10:52Marc:And I found a few copies with the dust jacket intact.

00:10:57Marc:And I bought one for $15 because it was such an, an integral part of my past in some weird way.

00:11:07Marc:My weird obsession was,

00:11:09Marc:with black and white film actors without being obsessed with black and white film.

00:11:13Marc:There was something about the notion of movie star and specifically these black and white pictures.

00:11:20Marc:I'm not sure.

00:11:20Marc:I cannot tell you why, but apparently I've come full circle and I'm now able to watch these actors that I was obsessed with when I was like 11 or 12 years old in a book.

00:11:35Marc:And I don't know if this means I'm going to die or

00:11:38Marc:Or that it was just destiny.

00:11:41Marc:It's just time.

00:11:43Marc:It just only took 47 years for me to lock in.

00:11:48Marc:But the book is coming in the mail.

00:11:50Marc:And it might be a portent of doom.

00:11:53Marc:Of something bad or good.

00:11:59Marc:That I'm getting this book after so many years.

00:12:04Marc:Look, you guys.

00:12:05Marc:Um...

00:12:07Marc:Cat Williams, it was an honor to meet him, to have him in here.

00:12:14Marc:And he's got a tour coming up.

00:12:17Marc:His 2023 and me tour kicks off this week, Friday, January 13th in Tampa.

00:12:24Marc:Go to katwilliamslive.com for tour dates.

00:12:27Marc:That's K-A-T-T Williams.

00:12:29Marc:Locations and tickets all are there.

00:12:32Marc:katwilliamslive.com.

00:12:35Marc:And this is me talking to the singular Kat Williams.

00:12:42Marc:Kat Williams.

00:12:44Thank you.

00:12:52Marc:so what are you doing man you're already going out with a new totally new hour oh yeah yeah yeah yeah i just watched every season i watched the last so when was that when was uh world war three taped um last for the world war three tour yeah so this is 2023 and me yeah yeah where where do you work it out

00:13:16Marc:The material?

00:13:18Marc:Yeah.

00:13:19Marc:I mean, do you still do clubs?

00:13:21Marc:How do you do it?

00:13:22Marc:Or you just lay it out and then hit the arenas and the big theaters and do it that way?

00:13:28Guest:Yeah, but I'm kind of doing it like a basketball player where they're practicing every day.

00:13:33Guest:Yeah.

00:13:35Guest:So I'm putting in the same amount of time.

00:13:37Guest:I just don't have the pressure of theft hanging over my head every time I'm trying to go a different direction.

00:13:46Guest:What do you mean?

00:13:48Guest:I mean...

00:13:51Guest:There's this thing where people want to know what I'm saying and what I'm talking about and what I'm discussing and what I'm pondering.

00:14:01Guest:So I don't get the benefit of that three or four month period where I can hone something to where I'm trying to get it to.

00:14:14Guest:It's already just gone.

00:14:16Guest:Right, right.

00:14:17Guest:Yeah, so...

00:14:17Marc:So do you just work it out in your head?

00:14:21Guest:No, no, no.

00:14:22Guest:I physically do the complete show, every part, because that's what I was getting out of working out the material.

00:14:32Guest:I'm trying to find out at what point do I make the physical gesture, at what point...

00:14:40Guest:Right, sure, yeah.

00:14:42Guest:Am I okay with them not really understanding that that part was a joke, too, until later?

00:14:48Guest:So a lot of it is, you know, blocking and stuff I learned from Hollywood.

00:14:54Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:14:54Guest:And figuring that part out and then trying to...

00:14:59Guest:deliver it but yeah it doesn't i miss it i miss working out but i get way more done when it's so you go we just like pace and talk in your house yeah i'll make any i'll make any 20 foot area the stage do you make people sit down and watch or you do it you just do it yourself

00:15:21Guest:Yeah, I'm saying there are times when there are comedians around for the passage of it as I work it through.

00:15:31Marc:Do you got guys you trust and work with?

00:15:34Marc:Do you hang out with guys who will help you punch shit up or no?

00:15:38Guest:Or is it all you?

00:15:39Guest:That was the day when I realized you could trust guys.

00:15:41Guest:I never even thought of that.

00:15:46Yeah.

00:15:46Guest:Well, women can barely be trusted and they're the only thing you can trust.

00:15:51Guest:I mean, I can't say that I trust a ton of people.

00:15:56Guest:I trust the comedy conversation.

00:16:00Guest:Yeah.

00:16:00Guest:And so I trust the audience that I'm going to be in front of.

00:16:06Marc:Do you make changes on the spot, even on the big shows?

00:16:11Marc:Do you improvise much?

00:16:11Marc:Yeah, you got to, right?

00:16:12Marc:Yeah, you make... It's the best.

00:16:14Guest:It's the best.

00:16:15Guest:Yeah, a change is only a betterment.

00:16:17Marc:It's the best.

00:16:18Guest:Yeah.

00:16:18Marc:Like, I shot an HBO special a week and a half, two weeks ago in New York, and there were things that happened that night that didn't happen any other time, and those were the best things.

00:16:28Marc:They're the best.

00:16:29Marc:Because it's like a gift.

00:16:30Marc:You don't know where the fuck it comes from.

00:16:32Marc:Yeah, absolutely.

00:16:33Marc:It's delivered to you and you're like, oh shit.

00:16:36Marc:It's one of those, I don't know how you work, but if I'm in a situation where I didn't get the laugh I wanted, that's when the brain is going to do something and you don't know where it comes from, but it's going to save you and get you that laugh.

00:16:48Marc:And there it is.

00:16:49Marc:And I love that.

00:16:50Marc:It's the best.

00:16:51Marc:You work shit for a year and then that one thing that happens that took two seconds, that's the best part of the special.

00:16:57Guest:I love it when it hits the audience funny and it hits you funny at the same time, even though you wrote it and even though you knew it was going to.

00:17:06Guest:Yeah.

00:17:07Marc:Where you always know how it's going to go.

00:17:10Marc:Right.

00:17:10Marc:And then when you have that moment where it's like kind of like synchronicity and things just.

00:17:15Marc:Yeah.

00:17:16Marc:It's great.

00:17:17Marc:But I don't know.

00:17:17Marc:Like I like I've been watching you for years and you seem you seem calmer.

00:17:23Marc:Is it age?

00:17:24Marc:You seem more grounded.

00:17:26Guest:No.

00:17:26Guest:Yeah, all of that's a mirage.

00:17:29Guest:All of that's a farce.

00:17:31Guest:Yeah, so I was dealing with enemies, and it just so happened in my particular case that the group of people that was conspiring against me was my people.

00:17:48Guest:So you know how in Hollywood you have your group, you have your camp.

00:17:52Guest:I tried to limit that to one.

00:17:55Guest:Right.

00:17:55Guest:I tried to make mine the smallest, most logical team possible.

00:18:04Guest:Right.

00:18:05Guest:And found myself in a situation where...

00:18:09Guest:My parents was against me, my assistant, my first cousin that was taking, helping me take care of my kids, the accountant, the agent, everybody got indicted.

00:18:27Guest:And so I was dealing with that for a whole seven year period.

00:18:34Guest:Oh, my God.

00:18:35Guest:That was just literal living hell.

00:18:39Guest:And what were they doing?

00:18:41Guest:Taking money?

00:18:42Guest:$56 million, the IRS says, is what they made off with as a total haul.

00:18:52Guest:More importantly than that, the money didn't really matter because you can't see what you can't touch.

00:19:02Guest:the assassination that they helped happen to my character was the most damaging just because they were painting this picture where, you know, this guy's erratic and he's always in trouble and he's always in the... And the people that know me know that, you know, that's not even a part of my...

00:19:21Guest:Like, if I don't kill it, I let it live.

00:19:26Guest:I'm not a messy individual.

00:19:28Guest:Like, it would be very difficult.

00:19:31Guest:So people think, yeah, you look better and you've changed everything.

00:19:34Guest:You seem calmer.

00:19:36Guest:I literally have made no changes.

00:19:38Guest:I'm still smoking as much weed as I always was.

00:19:41Guest:I haven't cut down on anything.

00:19:43Guest:It's just...

00:19:44Guest:When you get toxic people out of your life, it's a new lease on life.

00:19:50Guest:Kind of like if you've got a terrible tooth and you get that out, it changes everything.

00:19:57Marc:And also, I imagine if you're under that much pressure and you're not sure what the hell is going on for a little while, and then even when you find out what's going on, then how are you not going to be crazy?

00:20:05Marc:How are you not going to be angry?

00:20:06Marc:How are you not going to be trying to fight for your life?

00:20:09Guest:Yeah, it was a desperate situation just because for the majority of the time, I'm thinking it's the feds doing it.

00:20:21Guest:Oh, really?

00:20:23Guest:Because a lot of the things are impossible.

00:20:26Guest:Nobody knows I'm going there.

00:20:28Guest:So how do I go there and end up...

00:20:31Guest:in jail for fighting a guy with a swastika on his forehead.

00:20:36Guest:And why is that not on the news?

00:20:38Guest:And why are people acting like I... Like it's all you.

00:20:41Guest:Like I'm some type of troublemaker, you know?

00:20:44Guest:And I'm in the business.

00:20:46Guest:I'm getting my blood pulled every month.

00:20:49Guest:Everybody knows I've never tried any drugs other than weed and nicotine.

00:20:55Guest:So it was just an odd thing to have to deal with character-wise.

00:21:00Guest:But you're through it.

00:21:03Guest:Once you get...

00:21:04Marc:Once you get the cancer out.

00:21:06Marc:Yeah, it's settled.

00:21:08Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:21:08Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:21:09Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:21:10Marc:So you have a new lease on your brain, freedom, life.

00:21:14Guest:Right, right, right.

00:21:15Guest:Because I wake up happy every day.

00:21:18Guest:Yeah.

00:21:19Guest:So anything that took me off of that was kind of weird for me.

00:21:22Marc:Well, it's terrible when you know something's afoot or awry or something you can't explain.

00:21:29Marc:It just causes all that fucking anxiety.

00:21:31Right.

00:21:32Guest:All the time.

00:21:32Guest:Yeah, and once you know that you're already under federal investigation, it means you can't hurt anybody either.

00:21:37Guest:It's a really... So you were under federal investigation when you were being screwed by your people?

00:21:44Guest:Oh, yeah, because the whole time they didn't think that I was being screwed.

00:21:48Guest:They thought that I was a criminal mastermind.

00:21:51Guest:Oh, and it was really... Able to launder this much, and it was only after about five years of their investigation that they realized, wait a minute.

00:22:02Guest:Why would he be laundering his money?

00:22:04Guest:Right.

00:22:05Marc:So what happens with your parents?

00:22:06Marc:They're out?

00:22:08Marc:I mean, do you talk to them?

00:22:08Marc:Oh, no, they're still here.

00:22:09Guest:But do you talk to them?

00:22:10Guest:They're great people.

00:22:11Marc:Oh, they are?

00:22:12Marc:So you forgave them?

00:22:14Marc:Um...

00:22:17Guest:Yeah, I think that's about as close as we can say.

00:22:20Marc:Yeah.

00:22:20Guest:Yeah?

00:22:21Marc:Yeah.

00:22:21Marc:All right.

00:22:23Marc:But when, like, I guess, like, I don't know, like, we didn't come up in the same comedy worlds.

00:22:29Guest:But we did.

00:22:30Guest:Because I was a fan of yours.

00:22:31Guest:Because I, um, dark comedy is, like, my favorite genre.

00:22:37Guest:That's the best.

00:22:38Guest:And, um...

00:22:40Guest:You're the last of that, really.

00:22:42Marc:Thanks, buddy.

00:22:44Marc:Right.

00:22:44Marc:I try to keep it as dark as possible.

00:22:47Marc:I talk about that in the new special pretty specifically.

00:22:50Guest:It's what I enjoy.

00:22:51Guest:It's really the no shortcut, the real raw essence of stand-up.

00:22:58Marc:Right, and it's also the most...

00:23:02Marc:For me, if you have that in you, if you resonate with the dark comedy, the amount of power it has to make sense for you and to ease your heart and mind around shit that is horrendous, that's the whole thing, man.

00:23:20Marc:I mean, I watched...

00:23:22Marc:Fuck, man.

00:23:22Marc:I was watching someone the other night.

00:23:23Marc:Who the hell was it?

00:23:24Marc:It's like they're just doing jokes and the jokes are fine.

00:23:28Marc:And there's still part of me that's like, why can't I just do the jokes?

00:23:33Marc:Right.

00:23:34Marc:And you know what it's like, you know, when you write those jokes and you do a joke, it's like, all right, well, that worked.

00:23:39Marc:I don't need to do it anymore ever.

00:23:41Marc:Like, jokes are not satisfying if they don't go deep, you know?

00:23:45Marc:Right.

00:23:45Marc:Like, I'm talking about that on the new special.

00:23:47Marc:I specifically talk about darkness and comedy.

00:23:50Marc:And I said the line is, well, I might burn it for the special, but I just say, look, you know, there had to be some incredibly funny, funny people in Auschwitz.

00:24:03Yeah.

00:24:05Marc:I mean, I said, how could there not be?

00:24:08Marc:They were all Jews.

00:24:10Marc:Are you going to tell me there wasn't one guy that was like, you're going to go watch Murray tonight?

00:24:14Marc:He does all the Nazis.

00:24:15Marc:Fucking hilarious.

00:24:19Guest:And as a black comic, like, just the thought of being able to do that, yeah.

00:24:25Guest:You should have seen the football team.

00:24:27Guest:We lost in slavery.

00:24:29Guest:Exactly.

00:24:29Guest:We could have killed everyone.

00:24:30Marc:Yeah, well, you do that, too.

00:24:32Marc:That Harriet Tubman bit in the last special, that's crazy.

00:24:36Guest:Right, but, you know, half of my special was deemed...

00:24:42Guest:too controversial, and so I took half of the special out and replaced it with sex material because I got blowback on it.

00:24:57Guest:I was wondering what that was, yeah.

00:24:59Guest:Yeah, and I had never been in that position before because for the other 11 specials, I taped the special myself, then I sell it.

00:25:09Guest:Right.

00:25:10Guest:This was the first time that I went into a contract.

00:25:13Guest:With Netflix?

00:25:14Guest:Right.

00:25:14Guest:And they came down on you?

00:25:16Guest:It's not that they came down.

00:25:18Guest:Yeah.

00:25:18Guest:But... They said you might want to rethink...

00:25:23Guest:Well, I'm saying any time you're doing business, you get notes.

00:25:26Guest:Right, sure, of course.

00:25:27Guest:Yeah, and the notes were that it was turned up viciously high.

00:25:34Guest:Around what subjects?

00:25:38Guest:Race, religion, and...

00:25:42Guest:There's a lot of that stuff still in there.

00:25:45Marc:Right.

00:25:47Marc:But... Well, let's talk about it, man.

00:25:50Marc:I mean, what did they tell you you couldn't do?

00:25:52Marc:If you can't do it, you might as well talk about it.

00:25:54Guest:I didn't mean to say that they told me I couldn't do it.

00:25:57Marc:No, but they... I still could have done it.

00:26:00Marc:Right.

00:26:01Marc:But you chose to compromise.

00:26:06Guest:Um...

00:26:09Guest:I prepared the material to be vicious.

00:26:12Guest:Yes.

00:26:13Guest:And I couldn't get the right amount of fluff in there.

00:26:18Guest:So it's kind of going back to what you were saying.

00:26:22Guest:Like balance is key.

00:26:24Guest:So even if you're a dark person,

00:26:26Guest:comic you still need that um light airiness yeah in there right that goofy's got to come from somewhere yeah so um yeah i was just that particular piece as i wrote it was just blew out the whole special full right i get it yeah so no amount of goofy was gonna under it was gonna balance that out

00:26:49Guest:Yeah, well, once I got to that certain point where I made that transition, I doubled down and I started really going at stuff.

00:27:00Guest:Like the fact that Sodom and Gomorrah was burnt down not because of homosexuality, but because of nastiness.

00:27:13Guest:It's a city full of men.

00:27:15Guest:Right.

00:27:17Guest:So they thought that was too much?

00:27:20Guest:No, it's just that there were 10 of them back to back to back.

00:27:24Marc:It was all pretty much the biblical stuff?

00:27:25Guest:I was uprooting some firmly held beliefs.

00:27:32Guest:It's the best.

00:27:32Guest:Yeah.

00:27:33Marc:It's the best.

00:27:34Marc:And I don't even know why I do it, but we must be similar in that.

00:27:40Marc:It's like I feel like I have to do it, especially now being a Jew.

00:27:44Marc:I just like pushing Christian buttons.

00:27:46Marc:Why wouldn't I?

00:27:48Marc:I want to.

00:27:49Marc:Yeah, you killed Christ.

00:27:51Marc:Of course.

00:27:51Guest:So you have to push the buttons.

00:27:53Marc:Right.

00:27:53Marc:I'm saying.

00:27:54Marc:I used to do a bit, though.

00:27:55Marc:I used to do a bit where I'd say.

00:27:56Marc:Did we?

00:27:58Yeah.

00:27:58Marc:I don't think so.

00:28:00Marc:He's a Christ denier.

00:28:02Marc:A crucifixion denier.

00:28:04Marc:Well, I used to say, I say, look, man, you should thank us.

00:28:06Marc:You shouldn't be mad at us.

00:28:07Marc:If he doesn't die, you don't have much of a story.

00:28:09Marc:At all.

00:28:11Marc:At all.

00:28:11Guest:Nothing happens, man.

00:28:13Guest:Yeah.

00:28:13Guest:So you lived in Sac?

00:28:15Guest:Yeah, so comedically... Where'd you start?

00:28:18Guest:I didn't want to... I kind of started in Oklahoma City comedically.

00:28:23Guest:Just because it was the first place I got paid to do comedy.

00:28:27Guest:Of all places, there's barely a comedy scene there.

00:28:30Guest:Yeah, Crackers.

00:28:31Guest:Is that what it was?

00:28:32Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:28:32Guest:It was a big place.

00:28:34Guest:So it was a competition.

00:28:36Guest:So I won the competition, but the part of the competition was I got to open up for these comedians on their tour.

00:28:44Guest:So I didn't work a circuit.

00:28:47Guest:I literally went from this competition to now I'm on the road with Richard Jenney and Steve Marmel and Jeff Foxworthy and Dan Whitney, who turns out to be Larry the Cable.

00:29:00Marc:That was who you were with?

00:29:01Guest:Yes.

00:29:02Marc:That is the whitest bus I ever heard.

00:29:04Marc:I don't know.

00:29:05Guest:Yeah, but that was the group.

00:29:08Guest:Steve Marmel.

00:29:10Guest:The cartoon god.

00:29:12Guest:Wow.

00:29:13Guest:Steve Marmel and his big head.

00:29:15Guest:He's probably got 50 cartoons.

00:29:18Guest:Really?

00:29:19Guest:Is that what he does?

00:29:20Guest:Are you kidding?

00:29:21Guest:He is the writer, creator, guy on maybe 35 of the most influential cartoons of the last.

00:29:31Marc:No kidding.

00:29:32Marc:10, 15 years.

00:29:32Marc:I remember when you did stand-up.

00:29:33Marc:These guys that I knew as stand-ups, I don't know what the hell they do.

00:29:36Marc:But wait, so go back.

00:29:37Marc:So where'd you grow up?

00:29:40Guest:So I was born in Cincinnati and raised in Dayton, Ohio.

00:29:44Marc:Okay.

00:29:45Marc:Dayton, Ohio.

00:29:47Marc:Ohio.

00:29:47Marc:So...

00:29:48Marc:You didn't do comedy until later?

00:29:50Guest:Yeah, I didn't do comedy during any of that point when I left home at 13.

00:29:53Guest:13?

00:29:54Guest:About 15, I did stand-up at a comedy competition because I was too young to be at a club.

00:30:00Guest:Where at?

00:30:01Guest:In Ruskin, Florida, which is outside of Tampa.

00:30:04Guest:So you were living in Florida?

00:30:06Guest:At that time, mm-hmm.

00:30:07Marc:So you left your house in Dayton at 13.

00:30:09Guest:Went to Miami.

00:30:10Guest:Did you have family there?

00:30:12Guest:No.

00:30:13Guest:I went to a truck stop in Dayton when I left, and I was just asking all the truck drivers where they were going, trying to find somewhere warm.

00:30:21Guest:I needed a guarantee it wasn't going to snow because I'm from Ohio.

00:30:25Guest:And, yeah, picked a Miami truck.

00:30:28Guest:Why'd you leave at 13?

00:30:32Guest:Because I thought Jesus did, and I didn't really run away.

00:30:37Guest:It was not a good situation for my parents and myself.

00:30:43Guest:We were just kind of at a...

00:30:47Guest:A place where I needed to either live a double life or not.

00:30:54Guest:Meaning what?

00:30:55Guest:At 13, I wasn't really prepared for it.

00:30:57Guest:So, you know, if your parents are religious and you decide that you're not going to follow the religion of your parents and you're going to make it obvious to everybody that you don't.

00:31:09Guest:Right.

00:31:10Guest:Yeah.

00:31:11Guest:And then you'd have to put up with their wrath?

00:31:14Yeah.

00:31:14Guest:Well, we had already, we were past that.

00:31:17Guest:Oh.

00:31:17Guest:Yeah.

00:31:17Guest:We were.

00:31:18Guest:Which religion?

00:31:19Guest:We were after wrath.

00:31:20Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:31:21Guest:The after wrath.

00:31:22Marc:The after wrath.

00:31:22Guest:Yeah.

00:31:23Guest:That's the next special.

00:31:24Guest:Yeah, they were Jehovah Witness.

00:31:25Marc:They were Jehovah Witness.

00:31:26Marc:Yeah.

00:31:27Marc:That's a pretty.

00:31:28Marc:Still are.

00:31:28Marc:Restrictive business, isn't it?

00:31:31Marc:Religiously.

00:31:32Marc:Yeah.

00:31:32Marc:As a child, it's about as restrictive as possible.

00:31:36Marc:What is it?

00:31:36Marc:So they're still Jehovah's Witnesses.

00:31:38Marc:They are.

00:31:38Marc:That's the Watchtower, right?

00:31:40Marc:That is.

00:31:40Marc:Okay.

00:31:41Marc:So you were brought up in that until you were 13 and then split.

00:31:46Marc:Right.

00:31:46Marc:You didn't want to live the life.

00:31:48Marc:It's kind of culty, is it?

00:31:49Marc:Would you say?

00:31:51Guest:I honestly didn't, at that point in my life, really have a problem with the religious side of it.

00:31:59Guest:Because I knew that they were saying some things that nobody else was saying.

00:32:02Guest:And some of the things they were saying were true.

00:32:04Guest:Like what?

00:32:05Guest:Well, like the fact that Jesus wasn't born...

00:32:09Guest:On December 25th and in no way was that the timing of it.

00:32:15Guest:And he didn't look like he had been presented.

00:32:19Guest:And, you know, just a lot of facts that all of these holidays are related to things that pagan people were already doing at that time.

00:32:29Guest:And then it was just co-opted by Christianity.

00:32:32Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:32:33Guest:So they don't do the holidays.

00:32:34Guest:Right.

00:32:35Guest:They don't do birthdays or holidays or any of that.

00:32:37Marc:Well, that's interesting because that kind of informs your sort of kind of nose for hypocrisy.

00:32:48Marc:Right.

00:32:49Marc:That set into motion the few things that you took from that religion as being honest as made you realize that things needed to be investigated.

00:32:57Guest:Right.

00:32:58Guest:And that there was a – I mean at five years old, I knew that there was –

00:33:04Guest:business where if you told something that wasn't the truth, it could be as popular and as profitable as the actual truth itself.

00:33:16Guest:So you knew that at five around there.

00:33:19Guest:Yeah, because I, you know, I'm only I'm only reading nonfiction.

00:33:24Guest:I'm only, you know, I'm still I'm studying the Bible earnestly.

00:33:28Guest:Like God is my only friend, you know?

00:33:32Guest:Yeah.

00:33:32Guest:that type of upbringing.

00:33:34Guest:So I didn't, like, I never watched horror movies, or, like, I've still never seen, like, anything.

00:33:43Guest:Like, you know, Poltergeist or Exorcist.

00:33:46Marc:You weren't interested?

00:33:47Guest:Or you weren't allowed?

00:33:48Guest:I know that I wasn't allowed, but I also wasn't interested because I wasn't allowed.

00:33:55Guest:So I was, you know, those were back in the days where PBS and

00:33:59Guest:National Geographic, we're all day programming.

00:34:03Marc:Well, that's interesting because that too, in and of itself, the idea that you're not allowed so you weren't interested is also another kernel of what you push back against.

00:34:15Marc:That these themes that were planted in you as somebody who didn't want to be part of the religion eventually kind of drove your intellectual spirit

00:34:27Guest:Yeah, I never it was never I was never making a religious decision.

00:34:32Guest:It wasn't that I didn't want to be a part of the religion.

00:34:35Guest:I knew that I was going to do things that were going to make me not part of it.

00:34:39Guest:Right.

00:34:40Marc:So you wanted to have the freedom to do that.

00:34:43Guest:Look, even at a young age, if you tell me I can't have sex until I'm married, I'm probably going to have a problem with that.

00:34:52Guest:Sure.

00:34:53Guest:Most people do.

00:34:54Guest:Then they lie about it.

00:34:55Guest:I don't know how I'm going to marry the first person I sleep with.

00:34:58Guest:I don't get it.

00:34:59Marc:Well, that's long behind you, Kat.

00:35:03Guest:Right.

00:35:04Guest:This was a 13-year-old discussion, and I had just reached...

00:35:09Marc:this illustrious height that you see before you know I'm a big tall strapping young fella out there you know can't be held down by religion but so when you get on a truck yeah and you go to Florida you get out and do what you're 13 that's a little man

00:35:28Guest:Right, right.

00:35:28Guest:But I only have dress clothes.

00:35:32Guest:I have a full mustache.

00:35:35Guest:I don't have a beard, but I have a full mustache.

00:35:37Guest:I got on a white shirt.

00:35:37Guest:I got on a tie.

00:35:38Guest:I got on slacks.

00:35:39Guest:I got on a belt.

00:35:40Guest:Dress shoes.

00:35:41Guest:I'm presentable.

00:35:43Guest:And I'm smoking a cigarette.

00:35:47Guest:Right.

00:35:47Guest:So...

00:35:48Guest:In passing, it doesn't strike you that this is a 13-year-old.

00:35:53Guest:It just strikes you that this is a little guy.

00:35:55Guest:So what did you do when you got there?

00:35:58Guest:He had to drop me in the warehouse kind of district because they were doing tomato palettes.

00:36:06Guest:So my point is, where I got out, there was no residential area.

00:36:12Guest:So I just immediately had to start moving.

00:36:15Guest:So I walked...

00:36:18Guest:Over the course of a week through Opelaka and Carroll City and all through parts of Miami.

00:36:25Guest:And your dress shoes?

00:36:26Guest:Hialeah.

00:36:27Guest:And your dress shoes?

00:36:28Guest:Very comfortable.

00:36:28Guest:I did everything and I'm never fine.

00:36:30Guest:Okay.

00:36:33Guest:And got all the way to Coconut Grove and that's where I stayed.

00:36:39Guest:I was in Coconut Grove.

00:36:40Guest:And how'd you live?

00:36:43Guest:I had a pretty good existence.

00:36:45Guest:I was in the woods, so sleeping outside, but there was kind of a little homeless encampment there.

00:36:52Guest:But for eight hours, I would go across to the library there in Coconut Grove, and I would study for eight hours.

00:36:59Guest:And before I would go in there, there was this restaurant I would go by, and I would sweep and mop their floors, do the windows, bust the tables, whatever it was.

00:37:08Guest:hadn't been done from the following night.

00:37:10Guest:And instead of paying me, they would let me eat there free.

00:37:14Guest:So when you saw me, I was in this five-star restaurant having dinner, you know.

00:37:20Guest:Yeah, so I worked that arrangement out in a couple places.

00:37:23Guest:So I was eating super well and studying.

00:37:27Marc:What were you studying?

00:37:28Guest:What was the project at hand?

00:37:31Guest:I was doing about 12 books a day, but I'm doing them in the different subjects.

00:37:41Marc:Getting the well-rounded?

00:37:43Guest:Well, you know, this is before the iPad, so you have your book, and then you have these three reference books that it keeps taking you.

00:37:53Guest:Yeah, yeah, so you got to go check it out.

00:37:55Marc:Right, right.

00:37:55Guest:What were your interests, though?

00:37:57Guest:The Life Mysteries, Autobiographies was my favorite.

00:38:07Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:38:08Guest:Probably read like 3,000 of those.

00:38:10Guest:Really?

00:38:11Guest:Yeah.

00:38:12Marc:Just to see how people did it?

00:38:14Guest:Yeah.

00:38:15Guest:Yeah.

00:38:16Guest:Whatever it was.

00:38:17Marc:Sure.

00:38:17Guest:Exactly.

00:38:18Guest:How they found out what it was.

00:38:21Marc:Yeah.

00:38:22Marc:People you respected, I imagine, or were curious about?

00:38:26Guest:Well, most of the people, honestly, I had no idea who they were before I'm reading their autobiography.

00:38:31Guest:So I'm finding out about them.

00:38:33Marc:Do you remember any of them changing your life?

00:38:36Guest:Almost all of them.

00:38:37Guest:Yeah.

00:38:38Guest:Almost all of them.

00:38:39Guest:Like even...

00:38:41Guest:Yeah, almost all of them.

00:38:44Guest:I was voracious just because this was this opportunity to see somebody's whole life and to have them tell you their own pitfalls and what they had to do to get out of these situations.

00:38:57Guest:I couldn't believe it.

00:38:59Guest:Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher.

00:39:05Guest:Yeah.

00:39:06Guest:Jack Johnson.

00:39:08Guest:Jack Johnson.

00:39:09Guest:Just people where you're going, holy... I never really got over The Diary of Anne Frank.

00:39:16Guest:Yeah, it's a tough one.

00:39:20Guest:Even as a young person, I probably read 1984, the book, probably 10 times before I had an idea of...

00:39:34Guest:what it was.

00:39:37Guest:So I was getting all of my experience out like that.

00:39:43Guest:So I'm Anne of Green Gables and Little Women and all that.

00:39:49Guest:I'm

00:39:50Guest:These are my real-time interactions because I'm not in school.

00:39:54Guest:I don't have 10 friends.

00:39:56Guest:I don't have brothers and sisters with me.

00:40:00Guest:Wow.

00:40:02Marc:It's amazing because it'll feed your imagination, but it'll also make you think in a different way.

00:40:09Marc:You weren't influenced by or distracted by one other kids or people telling you how to frame everything that you're reading.

00:40:17Guest:Right.

00:40:18Guest:And the guys that are in this encampment, like they're all drug addicts.

00:40:23Guest:Right.

00:40:23Guest:So the whole thing is that's my first experience experience with drugs is this end of it.

00:40:30Guest:So every person is like, yeah, I was a doctor for 12 years and I was created by practice.

00:40:37Guest:What happened to you?

00:40:38Guest:Crack.

00:40:39Guest:That's what happened.

00:40:40Guest:Oh, I never used that.

00:40:41Guest:Oh, what happened to you?

00:40:43Guest:I was a lawyer, the greatest lawyer.

00:40:44Guest:Look, this is me in the paper.

00:40:46Guest:I was a great lawyer.

00:40:47Guest:It's heroin.

00:40:48Guest:Oh, shit.

00:40:49Guest:Wow.

00:40:50Guest:It's 15 years after that before I realized that people are also having fun with these drugs.

00:40:57Marc:What's funny is that those are the two sides of autobiography.

00:41:01Marc:You're reading the great people of autobiography, and then across the street, it's a very quick autobiography.

00:41:06Guest:I was a doctor, then crack got me.

00:41:09Guest:And these guys are talking about 11 months.

00:41:13Guest:That's right.

00:41:14Guest:They're not telling this story where they've been... Well, this speed now will take people out of their lives in about three weeks, this meth.

00:41:24Marc:Fentanyl don't need that time.

00:41:25Marc:No, they'll take you all the way out of your life.

00:41:27Marc:But the speed will make you still live.

00:41:30Marc:Yeah.

00:41:31Marc:That stuff you did on that I thought was great.

00:41:33Marc:I really thought that was great.

00:41:35Marc:The idea that black people are not making these drugs.

00:41:39Guest:No.

00:41:40Guest:In no way.

00:41:42Guest:This shouldn't even be considered a drug.

00:41:45Guest:Like fentanyl is terrorism.

00:41:49Guest:Like...

00:41:51Guest:To insinuate drug means to insinuate that someone in the process is deriving pleasure.

00:41:59Guest:And fentanyl doesn't even have that.

00:42:03Guest:It's something that you can't taste and you can't smell.

00:42:06Guest:And it's just death.

00:42:09Guest:Like that's not a drug.

00:42:10Marc:And they're putting it in everything.

00:42:12Guest:They can put it in anything.

00:42:15Guest:That's what people aren't realizing.

00:42:17Guest:You don't have to be involved in anything nefarious.

00:42:20Guest:This is something that if it's on a piece of tissue, you can't touch the tissue.

00:42:29Marc:That's right.

00:42:30Marc:It's almost pure evil in a way.

00:42:32Guest:It's literally like, yeah, this is right.

00:42:36Guest:And what I'm saying is minorities, we don't have a track record of that.

00:42:41Guest:We're not.

00:42:43Marc:That wouldn't be a thing for us.

00:42:45Marc:Yeah.

00:42:46Marc:And the speed, the stuff, the thing you talk about meth and about the Nazis was great.

00:42:50Marc:That was a great pull.

00:42:52Marc:I'm glad you found that information.

00:42:54Guest:Yeah.

00:42:54Guest:Right, and it— It's a funny bit.

00:42:58Guest:Yeah, that's the only joy I get out of these jokes is that at some point, if you laughed at it, that's an easy win.

00:43:06Guest:But the fact that maybe if you laughed at five things I said, if you go back and research them, you're going to be really proud.

00:43:14Guest:You're going to be like, oh, shit, he was— He did his homework.

00:43:18Guest:Right.

00:43:19Guest:Wait a minute.

00:43:20Yeah.

00:43:20Guest:The Hitler did make this?

00:43:23Marc:Well, the thing that got me about it, because I knew that about speed, but the way you framed it in the comedy piece, which is why dark comedy is so good, is that you really think about the possibility of evil that can be done at the hands of people who are fucking out of their mind on speed.

00:43:40Marc:Right?

00:43:41Guest:Yeah.

00:43:41Marc:I mean, that shit makes people way fucking crazy.

00:43:45Marc:Yeah.

00:43:46Marc:And the sleep deprivation, all that part of it.

00:43:48Marc:Like, even though it was funny, and, you know, when you'd pull out the ring camera, which was hilarious, because I was wondering, how is he going to make this go?

00:43:56Marc:And then you get the ring camera, right?

00:43:59Marc:Right.

00:43:59Marc:How's he going to make this go?

00:44:04Yeah.

00:44:05Marc:Right.

00:44:05Marc:You know?

00:44:06Marc:But it just did have that moment where it's like you've captured this idea of just these hundreds of fucking Nazis whacked out of their brain on speed.

00:44:15Marc:Of course they're going to kill everybody and not think twice about it.

00:44:17Marc:Of course they're not going to have a conscience.

00:44:19Marc:Of course they're going to believe in this will to power.

00:44:22Guest:They're going to do...

00:44:25Guest:Yeah, because people don't understand that atrocities are vicious and violent on both ends.

00:44:35Guest:Like, if you're the person participating in the atrocity, you're not ever the same again.

00:44:44Guest:That's right.

00:44:44Guest:You know what I mean?

00:44:45Marc:Yeah.

00:44:46Marc:And it also made me think, like, I'm very happy that no one's running around trying to organize our current meth problem.

00:44:53Marc:They seem to be out in the streets, which is sad.

00:44:58Marc:The two sides of that atrocity is like, what do you do with that?

00:45:02Marc:How do you help that?

00:45:03Marc:What's going to happen with that?

00:45:04Marc:It's still people, right?

00:45:06Marc:But also, it doesn't seem like there's anybody doing it as a means to an end to organize people into some sort of meth army.

00:45:15Marc:It's just to sell drugs.

00:45:17Guest:Yeah.

00:45:19Guest:It's tragic, dude.

00:45:20Guest:It is.

00:45:21Guest:You live here?

00:45:21Guest:It is.

00:45:23Guest:Not anymore.

00:45:25Guest:Oh, you're not living in L.A.?

00:45:26Guest:No, I lived here, I think, 16 consecutive years.

00:45:30Marc:So you're out?

00:45:31Marc:Yeah.

00:45:31Guest:Yeah.

00:45:32Guest:Miami.

00:45:33Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:45:34Guest:Middle of the country.

00:45:35Guest:Florida?

00:45:36Florida.

00:45:36Marc:It's nice, right?

00:45:37Guest:Yeah.

00:45:37Guest:Well, you like the weather?

00:45:38Guest:It's a weird-ass state.

00:45:41Guest:I'm a golfer.

00:45:42Guest:Really?

00:45:42Guest:And I thrive in heat and are kind of averse to the cold.

00:45:49Guest:So Florida's right up my alley.

00:45:52Marc:So how do you get out of the encampment with the doctors and lawyers?

00:46:00Marc:What's the next shift in your life?

00:46:03Guest:Oh, well, I do some missionary work in Haiti for close to two years.

00:46:11Guest:For which?

00:46:14Guest:Just for a non-denominational.

00:46:16Guest:You were in Haiti for two years?

00:46:19Mm-hmm.

00:46:19Guest:You just did it on, like, what made you?

00:46:21Guest:Right before they ousted.

00:46:24Guest:Papa Doc?

00:46:25Guest:Yeah.

00:46:25Guest:Or Baby Doc.

00:46:26Guest:Baby Doc.

00:46:26Guest:Yeah, so Baby Doc is in, and then the embassy says, you know, we can't cover anybody, and you got to get out.

00:46:34Guest:But right up until that point.

00:46:36Marc:You were there when that happened?

00:46:37Marc:You got out just before?

00:46:38Marc:Oh, you were there?

00:46:40Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:46:40Marc:And you had to get out?

00:46:42Marc:Right.

00:46:42Marc:We stayed until you had to leave.

00:46:45Guest:Was it scary?

00:46:46Guest:Did it break into chaos?

00:46:47Guest:How did it... No, not really, but...

00:46:53Guest:Yeah, Haiti's just a fascinating country.

00:46:56Guest:How long were you down there?

00:46:58Guest:For 17 months.

00:47:02Guest:Wow.

00:47:04Guest:That must have been a mind-blower.

00:47:05Guest:But in a good way, though.

00:47:06Guest:Yeah?

00:47:07Guest:Yeah, it's culture shock.

00:47:08Guest:Yeah.

00:47:09Guest:For sure.

00:47:09Guest:And I'm in Santo, which is closer to the border of the Dominican Republic than, let's say, Port-au-Prince.

00:47:17Guest:So I'm still seeing the beautiful countryside and whatnot.

00:47:21Guest:But yeah, I got to really do some...

00:47:23Guest:some life-changing things while I was out there.

00:47:26Guest:They were having children that were babies under a year, were dying from dehydration.

00:47:38Guest:And so I would just pack my pockets with salt, and I would just go as far as I could go, and anybody who had a young child, show them how to put the salt in the water.

00:47:49Guest:To clean the water?

00:47:51Guest:Well, it doesn't clean the water, but it helps the baby not grow up and pass so that they can maintain.

00:47:59Guest:The dehydration was from sickness?

00:48:03Guest:It's from a combination of...

00:48:06Guest:things but basically it's about what happens when you have to drink dirty water oh dysentery type of thing right so yeah so so you're saving lives saving babies well yeah but you know as a teenager i'm out there doing something helpful and i'm out there and i'm seeing the difference and i'm knowing i'm doing and i'm showing people stuff i know about irrigation and i'm

00:48:31Guest:Yeah, it was magnificent.

00:48:34Guest:You could get a whole bushel of mangoes for one dollar.

00:48:40Guest:Yeah.

00:48:45Guest:I remember going, they're going to start selling these in the stores.

00:48:51Guest:They're going to be a dollar.

00:48:52Guest:You saw the future of mangoes, of the business.

00:48:56Guest:Anytime you travel, you learn stuff.

00:48:58Guest:You like mangoes, I think.

00:48:59Guest:They show up in the last special of mangoes.

00:49:01Guest:I love a lot of things.

00:49:04Marc:I think you used the mango to describe the other thing you like.

00:49:10Marc:Water and pussy.

00:49:13Guest:Yeah.

00:49:14Guest:I like that.

00:49:15Guest:I like that.

00:49:16Guest:Greatest in the universe.

00:49:17Guest:And I had them both today.

00:49:20Guest:Did you?

00:49:20Guest:Yeah.

00:49:21Guest:So it's been a full day.

00:49:22Guest:That's why you relate.

00:49:23Guest:That's what makes a good day.

00:49:24Guest:That's why I made it.

00:49:27Guest:That's why I made it.

00:49:28Guest:So you come back from Haiti.

00:49:31Guest:Right.

00:49:31Guest:And then what?

00:49:34Guest:And then I attempt to join the Marine Corps.

00:49:37Guest:Really?

00:49:40Guest:And I go off to boot camp, and I pass, and then they reveal that—

00:49:45Guest:That I'm too young.

00:49:49Guest:They give me a little ceremony because I did pass, you know?

00:49:54Guest:But you were 17, 16?

00:49:57Guest:Oh, no.

00:49:57Guest:Yeah, I wasn't even 16.

00:49:59Guest:I wasn't even 16.

00:50:01Guest:I was already, I had miscalculated it wrong.

00:50:05Guest:I thought that, you know, by the time I got married,

00:50:08Guest:back I would be good but I hadn't turned 16 by the time boot camp was over but but you got through boot camp oh yeah oh yeah and they gave you a ceremony just for for the effort well you know because when you come back everybody gets the ceremony and I was supposed to have been probably put in the brig or court-martialed or something but yeah they didn't treat me like that

00:50:32Marc:So that's interesting.

00:50:34Marc:What do you think you did these things for?

00:50:37Marc:Just to kind of get experience?

00:50:40Marc:Did what thing?

00:50:41Guest:Some people were robbing, you know, breaking into cars and doing a lot of violent and vicious things.

00:50:49Guest:But all of my things have been for the betterment of me and for me to be able to experience other situations.

00:51:00Guest:As far as the...

00:51:01Guest:Marine Corps thing, whatever those commercials were selling, you remember those commercials back in that time?

00:51:12Guest:If you wanted to be something, if you wanted to join a gang, the Marines was the gang to join.

00:51:19Guest:You know what I mean?

00:51:21Guest:Yeah.

00:51:21Guest:And so now I'm back from that.

00:51:24Guest:And now I started a sales career from that point.

00:51:29Guest:And that had me traveling the country.

00:51:32Guest:What were you selling?

00:51:33Guest:Well, a combination of things as time progressed.

00:51:36Guest:But it started off, it was books and magazines.

00:51:40Guest:And then later it became cleaning products.

00:51:44Guest:So I had already seen all 50 states before that started.

00:51:49Guest:Then I started the salesman job, and now I've seen all 50 states again.

00:51:54Guest:And then we start selling cleaner, and I've seen all 50 states again.

00:51:59Guest:So by the time I start in stand-up, I'm well-versed in the road.

00:52:07Guest:Just talking to people from different regions.

00:52:10Marc:But you're selling door-to-door?

00:52:12Guest:Door-to-door, yeah.

00:52:13Guest:Really?

00:52:14Guest:Door-to-door, yeah.

00:52:15Marc:For like what company?

00:52:18Marc:Like cleaners?

00:52:19Marc:Like Amway stuff?

00:52:20Guest:Well, no, but you're not far off.

00:52:23Guest:So initially we're selling, we got a collection of books and magazines, encyclopedias and whatnot that you can purchase.

00:52:33Marc:Subscriptions and stuff?

00:52:34Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:52:35Guest:Yeah, right.

00:52:35Guest:Yeah, and then when it goes to the cleaning products, you know, it's just like...

00:52:40Guest:Pumper's brand cleaner that will clean everything and it's concentrate.

00:52:45Marc:So you just get it to commission gig.

00:52:48Marc:Right.

00:52:48Marc:Yeah.

00:52:49Marc:You go pick it up at the warehouse and you get them and everything.

00:52:52Marc:Right.

00:52:53Guest:Yeah.

00:52:56Guest:The magazine book business is commissioned, too, but you're paying the publisher.

00:53:02Guest:Right.

00:53:02Marc:Yeah.

00:53:03Marc:Yeah.

00:53:03Marc:I think I kind of remember that thing.

00:53:06Yeah.

00:53:06Guest:Yeah, so it wasn't a scam.

00:53:08Guest:It was all above board.

00:53:10Guest:And the more you did, the more you made.

00:53:15Guest:And once I understood the structure of commission and sliding scale, I understood I would never, I couldn't be broke again.

00:53:24Marc:Right.

00:53:24Marc:Yeah.

00:53:26Marc:It just seems like you made the right decisions, Kat, all along the way to build your sense of who you are.

00:53:35Guest:Right.

00:53:35Guest:Well, maybe you don't do that in a perfectly loving home.

00:53:43Guest:But, you know, I thought that that's what everybody was doing.

00:53:51Guest:I thought you plan out your life.

00:53:54Guest:You make sure that you hit certain things.

00:53:57Guest:And I was always trying to just make myself as good a man as I could be for the type of woman I thought I was going to have.

00:54:07Marc:You know what I mean?

00:54:08Guest:So I'm only trying to qualify in her eyes.

00:54:13Guest:How'd that pan out?

00:54:15Guest:Pretty good.

00:54:18Guest:Right at the time that I was getting ready to start stand-up, I did pimping for a little while, but I didn't seek it out.

00:54:26Guest:So I was doing that door-to-door thing I was telling you about, and I was in Oklahoma.

00:54:31Guest:And I knocked on this door, and the door was already partly ajar.

00:54:37Guest:And they were...

00:54:38Guest:I just hear people crying, and they said, come in.

00:54:41Guest:And I went in there, and it was just these five ladies in there crying hysterically.

00:54:47Guest:Long story short, they were prostitutes.

00:54:49Guest:Their pimp had just been killed in front of them.

00:54:51Guest:They didn't know what they were going to do.

00:54:53Guest:Yeah.

00:54:56Guest:So I end up getting the job as the new pimp, but I don't know what it entails or what it means or any of that.

00:55:04Guest:So they train me on the job.

00:55:05Guest:The women do.

00:55:06Guest:Right.

00:55:07Guest:But in the midst of that, I got these five women that are telling me everything about all...

00:55:16Guest:Fucked up men.

00:55:17Guest:So they're letting me know every second of every day why men are worthless.

00:55:23Guest:So I'm being inundated like I'm in college.

00:55:27Guest:Yeah.

00:55:28Guest:Yeah.

00:55:29Guest:Like I shiver if I don't put the toilet seat down.

00:55:35Guest:Like it's instinctive.

00:55:37Guest:Like I would never leave one up.

00:55:39Marc:That seems like a pretty simple lesson.

00:55:42Guest:Right.

00:55:43Guest:But it was all of these lessons I found out.

00:55:46Guest:Yeah, so much.

00:55:47Guest:So that was a magnificent learning experience.

00:55:52Marc:Well, what's interesting about it is it's not the regular way that someone comes into that job.

00:55:58Marc:For sure.

00:55:59Marc:Yeah.

00:55:59Marc:And it sounds like, you know, that your intentions were not the same as the sort of way we hear people going into that job.

00:56:08Marc:Right.

00:56:08Marc:That you were sort of brought in by these women who were grieving and needed some management.

00:56:15Guest:Right.

00:56:16Guest:And they and I didn't like I couldn't even do it the way other people did.

00:56:21Guest:Like I never once drove and put them out on any streets or any of that.

00:56:26Guest:I just wasn't qualified.

00:56:28Guest:Like we would go to one club and they would have to split up and get what they could.

00:56:33Guest:And I would go back to the place and I'm hiding in the closet with a gun.

00:56:37Guest:And as long as she don't have a problem, I don't come out the closet.

00:56:42Yeah.

00:56:43Marc:That's what you did for all of them?

00:56:46Marc:Yeah.

00:56:46Marc:Yeah?

00:56:47Guest:Yeah, it's a two-bedroom.

00:56:49Marc:And so you never had to come out of the closet?

00:56:52Guest:I did.

00:56:52Guest:You did?

00:56:53Guest:Yeah, I did.

00:56:54Guest:Yeah.

00:56:55Guest:I did.

00:56:56Guest:But not as often as you would imagine.

00:57:00Marc:Yeah.

00:57:00Marc:Well, I mean, but I guess the willingness to do that and the ability to do that created some sort of sense of security that they needed.

00:57:10Yeah.

00:57:10Guest:Yeah, I learned that...

00:57:17Guest:Not being able to trust is a miserable thing.

00:57:21Guest:And most people in whatever job or position they're in, they're just really looking for some support.

00:57:28Guest:And support comes in many ways.

00:57:30Guest:It's not always financial.

00:57:32Guest:A lot of times it's not financial.

00:57:34Guest:It's emotional support and mental support and just telling somebody that's looking down, hey, don't look like that.

00:57:40Guest:You're good.

00:57:41Guest:Or physical support.

00:57:43Guest:You know, sometimes you got to stand up for somebody.

00:57:46Guest:Right.

00:57:47Guest:Or protect somebody.

00:57:49Guest:Or if at best, let them understand that somebody's got to be doing that.

00:57:57Guest:Yeah.

00:57:58Guest:If it's not going to be you, it's got to be somebody.

00:58:01Marc:Yeah.

00:58:01Marc:How long were you in this position?

00:58:04Marc:Um...

00:58:07Guest:I'll say a year, maybe.

00:58:09Guest:Yeah.

00:58:10Guest:How do you quit that job?

00:58:12Guest:I didn't.

00:58:13Guest:I won the comedy competition at the thing, and I left.

00:58:17Marc:You just left and said, good luck, go find yourself another dude?

00:58:21Marc:I didn't say anything.

00:58:22Marc:Oh, you didn't even show.

00:58:23Marc:Oh, I get it.

00:58:24Marc:You disappeared.

00:58:25Marc:Yeah.

00:58:26Marc:What am I doing?

00:58:26Marc:Yeah.

00:58:27Marc:So then you won the comedy competition, and from hanging out with five whores, you're on the road with four white guys.

00:58:34Marc:Yep.

00:58:35Guest:Doing opening slot, what, five minutes?

00:58:37Guest:Five minutes, but I'm the driver, right?

00:58:40Guest:So I'm thinking it's a great deal.

00:58:42Marc:What year is that?

00:58:42Guest:I'm the one driving to the gigs.

00:58:43Guest:Yeah, what year?

00:58:45Guest:You think?

00:58:45Guest:I don't know.

00:58:46Guest:I'm 19 now.

00:58:46Guest:Figure it out.

00:58:47Guest:You can do the math.

00:58:48Guest:I don't fucking know.

00:58:49Guest:Me neither.

00:58:50Guest:I'm not 19 either.

00:58:51Guest:I know.

00:58:51Guest:But it's before Dan was cable guy, so it's got to be.

00:58:57Guest:Right, because I don't consider myself starting comedy until 95.

00:59:03Guest:Really?

00:59:03Guest:Yeah, because even though I was doing this then, like, I wasn't really doing anything, and I'm only doing my same five minutes through this period of time.

00:59:14Marc:The five minutes you did at the competition?

00:59:16Guest:Right, because that's all I had.

00:59:18Guest:But by the time...

00:59:20Guest:That there's not that anymore.

00:59:22Guest:And now I know, no, I'm finna be a comedian.

00:59:25Guest:Now I need, I know white crowds understand where I'm coming from, but I've never had any people of color in any of the audiences that I've been at.

00:59:36Guest:So I don't even know how they respond to me.

00:59:39Guest:So I go to Sacramento first.

00:59:42Guest:Wow.

00:59:42Guest:Because it's kind of mixed as far as the population.

00:59:48Guest:So I was there in Sacramento for a year and a half, almost two years.

00:59:54Guest:Doing stand-up?

00:59:55Guest:Doing stand-up.

00:59:56Guest:And I'm doing old Ironsides and Laughs Unlimited.

01:00:00Guest:Was there open mic at the punchline or no?

01:00:05Guest:I never did open mics at the punchline because I needed to get paid.

01:00:12Guest:Was it mostly open mics or you didn't do any open mics?

01:00:15Guest:Oh, well, I would do any open mic I could.

01:00:18Guest:It's just the punchline was not...

01:00:22Guest:Was not in my wheelhouse at that time.

01:00:25Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:26Guest:So you're building your act.

01:00:28Guest:Right.

01:00:28Guest:So then I go from there to Oakland because Oakland is way blacker.

01:00:35Guest:Yeah.

01:00:36Guest:So once I was able to at least be passable in Sacramento, then I moved to Oakland.

01:00:43Guest:Right.

01:00:44Guest:Find out, okay, well, if they think I'm funny, how funny do they think I am?

01:00:51Guest:Yeah.

01:00:51Guest:Is it the same response?

01:00:53Guest:Yeah.

01:00:54Guest:So, yeah.

01:00:54Guest:So, Oakland, two years.

01:00:56Guest:Yeah.

01:00:56Guest:Then Los Angeles.

01:00:58Guest:So, Oakland was the testing ground.

01:01:00Guest:Right.

01:01:01Guest:Yeah.

01:01:02Guest:And it was everything it could be.

01:01:05Guest:Yeah?

01:01:06Guest:Yeah.

01:01:06Guest:How so?

01:01:08Yeah.

01:01:08Guest:Well, I knew that people that I admired and respected from all walks of life creatively had been able to come to that Oakland Bay area and get something from there that subsided them.

01:01:26Guest:So, like, my favorite guy was...

01:01:32Guest:Jack London.

01:01:33Guest:Yeah.

01:01:33Guest:Right.

01:01:34Marc:The writer.

01:01:35Marc:Right.

01:01:35Guest:The writer.

01:01:36Guest:Yeah.

01:01:36Guest:White Fang.

01:01:37Guest:Yeah.

01:01:37Marc:Right.

01:01:38Guest:Yeah.

01:01:38Guest:Right.

01:01:39Guest:Because I knew his story and then I knew his story and then I knew the stories that he wrote as well.

01:01:47Guest:And then Tupac.

01:01:49Guest:Yeah.

01:01:50Guest:had already detailed his experiences, and so it was a thriving place for hip hop, and it was a cultural mecca for African Americans just because of Black Panthers and for education, Berklee, and then so, yeah.

01:02:15Guest:Comedically, it was a real birthing place.

01:02:18Guest:Where were you working?

01:02:19Guest:I was hosting at Jeffrey's Inner Circle.

01:02:25Guest:I had a club in Jack London Square called The First Stop, and then I had a night at Hunter's Point in San Fran and, yeah, Bo's Bounty.

01:02:39Guest:Wow.

01:02:40Guest:And then I was on the radio in the mornings with Rick Chase.

01:02:44Guest:People thought I was getting paid, but I was just going in there for free doing music parodies and whatever.

01:02:49Marc:Sure.

01:02:49Guest:So we build in a following.

01:02:51Guest:Right.

01:02:51Guest:I'm a single father at this time.

01:02:54Guest:So I got a nine month old baby.

01:02:55Guest:It's just me and the baby.

01:02:56Guest:I got no family.

01:02:58Guest:So, you know, everywhere I'm with this stroller with the gun and the pamper bag.

01:03:05Guest:But yeah, we're really hitting the grind at that point.

01:03:09Guest:And I meet Mark Curry during that period of time.

01:03:13Guest:I meet Linnell during that period of time.

01:03:16Guest:A lot of the comics that are in Los Angeles are flying out there to do our shows in Oakland.

01:03:23Guest:So I'm able to see what the bar is like.

01:03:26Marc:Mark Curry, he's a hell of a craftsman.

01:03:29Guest:What a journeyman.

01:03:30Guest:Yeah.

01:03:30Guest:Right?

01:03:30Guest:Yeah, but those are the guys I respect.

01:03:32Guest:That's what I'm saying.

01:03:33Guest:That's why you're a real icon in the comedy streets.

01:03:36Guest:Well, thanks, man.

01:03:37Guest:It's because that journeyman thing, people just don't make it.

01:03:42Guest:They don't make it based on their jokes that we're talking about.

01:03:46Guest:People that was writing when you met them, and they're still writing.

01:03:49Marc:That's right.

01:03:49Guest:There's still an original voice.

01:03:52Guest:There's no knockoffs of them.

01:03:54Guest:Yeah.

01:03:55Marc:Who else made impact when you're watching...

01:03:58Marc:Like, who were you fans of?

01:04:00Marc:During this period?

01:04:02Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:04:03Guest:Man, my whole life, I've just been a comedy fan.

01:04:07Guest:Yeah.

01:04:07Guest:Like, that was my genre, you know?

01:04:10Guest:So I never put it black or white just because I didn't know it was broken up.

01:04:17Guest:I didn't realize that everybody was making money.

01:04:20Guest:Like, I didn't put all of that together.

01:04:24Guest:I just knew that whatever, I just knew that

01:04:28Guest:That Don Knotts guy.

01:04:31Guest:Yeah.

01:04:33Guest:Like, whatever he's in, like, he's giving me everything that he's got.

01:04:40Guest:And he really wants me to laugh and he wants it bad.

01:04:45Guest:And he'll do any, like, you know, I, yeah, I love, I love that part of it, you know?

01:04:52Guest:Don Knotts.

01:04:54Yeah.

01:04:55Guest:Comedy is that type of lane.

01:04:56Guest:You know how Richard Pryor became our king.

01:05:00Guest:In what lane is a crackhead that sets himself on fire, has 10 marriages, gonna be the king?

01:05:10Guest:No.

01:05:12Guest:Comedy is a special, special ground, you know?

01:05:16Marc:For sure.

01:05:16Marc:Yeah.

01:05:17Guest:I just like that Don Knotts made it in.

01:05:21Guest:Oh, man.

01:05:22Guest:He's high up there.

01:05:23Guest:And I just made it in.

01:05:25Guest:And I just made it in.

01:05:26Marc:And also, I got to assume that you're driving Jenny around.

01:05:29Marc:He was no slouch.

01:05:31Marc:Jenny could turn that shit on.

01:05:32Marc:That dude was the mafia.

01:05:35Guest:Yeah, dude.

01:05:36Guest:That was... Yeah.

01:05:37Guest:The crazy part is they don't... So...

01:05:40Guest:I win this competition.

01:05:42Guest:I'm now on the road with these guys.

01:05:43Guest:I've never been a comic before.

01:05:45Guest:I've never been in the industry before.

01:05:47Guest:I didn't go to college.

01:05:48Guest:I didn't go to high school.

01:05:50Guest:I got accepted to college when I was 12.

01:05:52Guest:As far as now I'm with these professionals, right?

01:05:56Guest:And I can't understand the work ethic of these guys.

01:06:01Guest:Like, I'm the one driving, and we're getting up

01:06:05Guest:at butt crack in the morning and driving.

01:06:07Guest:We're driving five states away so we can get somewhere, do radio, then go do this thing at this little station, this little morning television station, and they're going in and doing 15 minutes apiece or whatnot.

01:06:25Guest:And then we're coming back to this two-bedroom condo.

01:06:28Guest:And then...

01:06:30Guest:in two hours, it's time to start going to the show and these guys are ready and they're going and then we go to the club and we're there all night and we're drinking and then we're back and it's time to do it again.

01:06:43Guest:And I tell you, I have probably done 30 dates before

01:06:49Guest:And I'm like, these guys are monsters.

01:06:53Guest:I got to get my shit together.

01:06:56Guest:These old white guys are working me.

01:07:00Guest:I can't even barely keep up.

01:07:04Guest:They later told me, yeah, we were all on speed.

01:07:08Guest:We were all doing speed.

01:07:09Guest:Everybody but you.

01:07:11Guest:I had no clue.

01:07:12Guest:I had no clue what was going on.

01:07:13Guest:I thought this was how the comedy life was.

01:07:17Guest:They were all on speed?

01:07:19Guest:No.

01:07:19Guest:That's the story they told me.

01:07:22Guest:We don't believe Foxworth.

01:07:24Guest:No, I can't imagine that.

01:07:26Marc:But great guys.

01:07:27Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:07:28Guest:Well, yeah.

01:07:28Guest:Good guys to learn comedy from them.

01:07:29Guest:Real workers, yeah.

01:07:30Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:07:31Guest:So after Oakland, you're ready.

01:07:34Guest:You're primed.

01:07:35Guest:Right.

01:07:36Guest:You come down here.

01:07:37Guest:And they're kicking me out of there.

01:07:39Guest:Out of Oakland?

01:07:39Guest:At the same time.

01:07:40Guest:I've decided that, you know, me and this group of eight comics, we are as good as...

01:07:48Guest:as eight comics in Los Angeles.

01:07:51Guest:Who were the eight that you were with?

01:07:53Guest:I don't want to... They're still with us in the game?

01:08:00Guest:That's a good question.

01:08:02Guest:Okay, so yeah, it was eight.

01:08:04Guest:I used to hold comedy classes and whatnot, just a real incubator, you know, just where you could come in and let us hear your set, and let's help this person with their set and get this, you know?

01:08:17Guest:And, hey, maybe you shouldn't wear that.

01:08:20Guest:You know, so we had this group, and we had decided we were going to make the Exodus, and...

01:08:25Guest:So I think the people that end up actually leaving on the first slate were myself and Linnell and Rodney Perry.

01:08:35Guest:And I think... But eventually, more than half finally made it out there.

01:08:41Guest:But yeah, it was...

01:08:43Guest:It was a walk on faith.

01:08:45Guest:Everybody had already heard the stories about what happens if you... That you can go to L.A.

01:08:50Guest:and get chewed up and spit out in record time.

01:08:54Guest:Yeah.

01:08:55Guest:Especially around this time.

01:08:57Guest:So we just wanted to make sure that we were funny enough and...

01:09:02Guest:How'd it go?

01:09:03Guest:Yeah.

01:09:03Guest:You got down here, and where were you working?

01:09:05Guest:I got a room at the Hollywood Park Casino, and so I was doing Cat House Live from the Hollywood Park Casino, and I had a room on Van Nuys and Van Owen and

01:09:25Guest:We're jokingly referred to as the bucket of blood because of the fact there was a fight every night.

01:09:30Guest:But yeah, we had a little club there and then the hop in Lakewood.

01:09:36Guest:We had comedy there.

01:09:38Guest:So you would be the producer?

01:09:41Guest:The producer, the host, and the, yeah.

01:09:45Guest:So you just carved out your own shit and then, you know, so you could get.

01:09:48Guest:I learned from Oakland and Sacramento that as a comedian, if you want, it's all about stage time.

01:09:57Guest:Right.

01:09:58Guest:And you either have to find a means to guarantee yourself stage time.

01:10:06Guest:Yeah.

01:10:06Guest:Or guarantee yourself stage time.

01:10:08Guest:So I knew that I was funnier than the other comics because I knew that my audience wouldn't let me do the same jokes this week because they all came out and saw me last week.

01:10:20Guest:They're not going to let me talk about what I talked about last week, even though it's funny.

01:10:24Guest:So even as a host, I'm having to regenerate this material.

01:10:27Guest:Riff.

01:10:28Guest:Yeah.

01:10:28Marc:Yeah.

01:10:29Marc:That's the way to do it.

01:10:31Marc:I mean, if you can do it, to force yourself into that position, you know, to where you have to change it up.

01:10:37Guest:I was coming in comedy old already.

01:10:39Guest:You know, it was comics that had been doing it since they were 16 years old.

01:10:44Guest:And, you know, I'm at that point 22, 23 or 24.

01:10:47Guest:That's not that old.

01:10:50Guest:Comedically, I'm saying.

01:10:51Guest:Yeah.

01:10:52Guest:Well, understand, by the time I'm on Wildin' Out, on The Young Show, I'm 31.

01:11:01Guest:You get it?

01:11:02Guest:Yeah, but that's all right, man.

01:11:04Guest:That's the fountain of youth.

01:11:05Guest:This is what I paid for.

01:11:06Marc:Yeah, but look at the life you led.

01:11:08Guest:I love age.

01:11:09Guest:Yeah, I don't mind it either.

01:11:11Guest:I cannot be shamed on my age.

01:11:13Guest:Me neither.

01:11:14Guest:I tell people every single time I was given the opportunity to die young, I passed it up.

01:11:20Marc:You and me both.

01:11:21Guest:I'll take all the days.

01:11:22Guest:Yeah, I've never...

01:11:26Marc:Felt more comfortable, right?

01:11:29Guest:Yeah, but even when I was young, I wanted to be older.

01:11:32Guest:Yeah, I was always old.

01:11:34Guest:I thought that my end was near because I would be perfectly fine and then I would get in these situations where my eyes would die.

01:11:46Guest:Like, I would be on stage.

01:11:49Guest:And you know how when you get sweat in your eye, it would start like that.

01:11:53Guest:But by the end of it, I literally can't see.

01:11:57Guest:Right?

01:11:57Guest:Yeah.

01:11:58Guest:So I'm like...

01:12:02Guest:So I'm thinking.

01:12:05Guest:And all day, I'm tracking it.

01:12:08Guest:I'm fine all day.

01:12:09Guest:It's only happening when I'm on stage.

01:12:11Guest:And I'm like, oh, man.

01:12:15Guest:I'm going to go blind while I'm on.

01:12:18Guest:Okay.

01:12:19Guest:Yeah.

01:12:19Guest:I need glasses.

01:12:25Guest:Everything's okay now.

01:12:26Guest:The doctor was like, haven't you been having excruciating headaches?

01:12:32Marc:I was like, I thought everybody was.

01:12:35Marc:I didn't realize.

01:12:37Marc:So you just decided down here you're not going to do the shit at the comedy store.

01:12:40Marc:You're not going to try to run through the ranks and all that.

01:12:42Marc:You're just going to call your own shots.

01:12:44Marc:You did.

01:12:45Guest:Yeah, I did.

01:12:46Marc:Yeah.

01:12:47Guest:My competition didn't.

01:12:49Hmm.

01:12:49Guest:I did.

01:12:50Guest:I think I was the last person to actually have to do the ranks.

01:12:53Guest:But yeah, I'm in line at the Laugh Factory getting in there.

01:12:59Guest:I had to do all of that.

01:13:01Guest:I'm trying to, but I didn't do the comedy store because my first interaction with Mitzi scared me.

01:13:12Guest:So I didn't want to be a regular at the comedy store because she... That's supposed to get you, man.

01:13:22Guest:She agreed to see me, right?

01:13:24Guest:So I go up and I do my time and I do the exact amount of minutes I'm supposed to do.

01:13:29Guest:And I was hilarious, right?

01:13:32Guest:I get off the stage.

01:13:33Guest:I know I did great because I've been watching her from the stage.

01:13:37Guest:She's having a great time.

01:13:38Guest:She's clapping when I get back to the seat.

01:13:40Guest:Yeah.

01:13:41Guest:She says, that was great.

01:13:43Guest:I didn't expect that.

01:13:44Guest:Uh-huh.

01:13:45Guest:I was like, I've done it.

01:13:47Guest:Like, I can't believe this.

01:13:48Guest:I didn't have to do anything.

01:13:49Guest:I've done this.

01:13:50Guest:She was like, yeah, come back tomorrow.

01:13:53Guest:I'm going to watch you again just to make sure it's not a fluke.

01:13:57Marc:Okay.

01:13:57Marc:Okay?

01:13:58Marc:Yeah.

01:13:58Guest:The next night, I'm there at the time I'm supposed to be.

01:14:01Guest:I go on stage.

01:14:02Guest:I kill it again.

01:14:04Guest:I come out.

01:14:05Guest:I come off the stage.

01:14:07Guest:I go to this table.

01:14:10Guest:I sit down next to Missy.

01:14:12Guest:And she goes...

01:14:15Guest:Who are you?

01:14:16Guest:I said, Missy, I was here yesterday and I killed it and you loved it.

01:14:22Guest:She said, I don't know about that.

01:14:26Guest:I'll have to see you again.

01:14:27Guest:I was like, yeah, no.

01:14:32Guest:Yeah, I can't.

01:14:33Marc:Do you think she was the beginning of her sickness or that she was fucking with you?

01:14:37Guest:Yeah, I didn't know she had a sickness.

01:14:39Guest:I'm certain that's what it was.

01:14:40Guest:She wasn't being funny.

01:14:42Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:14:43Guest:So...

01:14:44Marc:So you didn't want to deal with that erratic.

01:14:46Guest:But I loved the comedy store.

01:14:47Guest:I remember there was Fat Tuesdays.

01:14:49Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:14:50Guest:And Bud Friedman was very friendly to me.

01:14:56Guest:Yeah.

01:14:57Guest:And Chick Hearns was my other L.A.

01:15:01Guest:friend.

01:15:01Marc:So did you do Fat Tuesdays?

01:15:03Marc:Was that in your time?

01:15:04Marc:Yeah.

01:15:05Guest:Good time.

01:15:06Guest:Yeah, I'm doing the Hollywood Park show.

01:15:08Guest:uh casino i'm doing that on wednesday yeah and you know yeah they're doing theirs on tuesday and monday is um was the chocolate night uh at the improv yeah and was it was that comedy union open yet there was yeah was that what it was called down on pico uh-huh pico and labrea yeah yeah yeah the comedy union i

01:15:33Guest:I was also doing clean comedy at M&M's Soul Food where we do it for church people.

01:15:40Guest:Really?

01:15:41Guest:I did that.

01:15:44Guest:How are you at the clean?

01:15:46Guest:I'm funny or clean.

01:15:49Marc:When was the last time you did some clean comedy?

01:15:53Guest:I love clean comedy.

01:15:54Guest:Do you?

01:15:55Guest:Separates the men from the boys.

01:15:57Guest:Because you have to take out all of your sexual material.

01:16:00Guest:You have to take away all your innuendo.

01:16:03Guest:You have to take away drinking or smoking or any of that.

01:16:09Guest:What are you left with, Kat?

01:16:12Guest:Funny.

01:16:13Guest:It's easier to tell who's funnier.

01:16:20Guest:Of course.

01:16:21Guest:Under those parameters.

01:16:22Marc:Can do the Taco Bell bit.

01:16:25Guest:You can do... Well, I can do a complete Bible bit.

01:16:32Guest:Right.

01:16:33Guest:You know what I mean?

01:16:34Marc:Yeah.

01:16:34Guest:That's the thing about being able to read it.

01:16:36Guest:You should record... You know how much... Well, not that it matters.

01:16:39Guest:I want to read black people the Torah.

01:16:42Guest:They really would... Yeah, you should.

01:16:43Guest:You should do it in Hebrew.

01:16:45Guest:Really impress people.

01:16:47Guest:Right.

01:16:47Guest:You just lost all the black people.

01:16:50Marc:I know.

01:16:51Marc:Do it in Hebrew.

01:16:52Marc:I know.

01:16:52Marc:I know I lost all the black people.

01:16:54Marc:I know.

01:16:57Guest:We don't have a big... Not a big Hebrew following.

01:17:01Guest:We would take the class.

01:17:02Guest:They don't offer it to us.

01:17:03Guest:Isn't that racism?

01:17:06Guest:You know what?

01:17:06Guest:I'm going to look into it.

01:17:09Marc:I'm saying.

01:17:09Guest:Yeah, I hear you.

01:17:10Guest:French and Spanish are well represented.

01:17:13Marc:I don't know fucking Hebrew, dude.

01:17:15Marc:I can read it kind of, maybe.

01:17:17Marc:I had to do it for my bar mitzvah, but it's not... We don't all get it.

01:17:20Guest:We're not brought up with it.

01:17:22Guest:Yeah, you're still allowed to be lazy.

01:17:24Guest:That's a part of free choice.

01:17:27Guest:It's just the fact that there's a system set up to take a 12-year-old boy and teach him life things before he becomes a man.

01:17:38Marc:In a different language that he doesn't understand.

01:17:40Guest:At all.

01:17:43Guest:Yeah, zero.

01:17:43Guest:Because for a black person, you're generally 26 and you're in jail before multiple people get together and tell you things that might help you.

01:17:56Guest:Yeah.

01:17:58Guest:In a real circumstance.

01:18:00Guest:Right.

01:18:00Right.

01:18:00Guest:It's not a part of any tradition for anybody to help you out and make sure you don't screw this up.

01:18:10Guest:I like to take all of those things from other cultures and to somehow...

01:18:18Marc:Bring that to my people.

01:18:21Marc:Yeah.

01:18:21Marc:It seemed like there was a it seems like a lot of times there's kind of almost a preacher position that you take at times with bits.

01:18:32Guest:I don't want to.

01:18:33Guest:Right.

01:18:33Guest:It's to my chagrin.

01:18:36Guest:I wish there was somebody else out there that if they found out that something was the truth and that people was being lied to, that they would run back and go, hey, guess what, guys?

01:18:50Guest:You know what I mean?

01:18:51Guest:I wish that that was a politician or I wish that there was some activist person that that's what they did or any of that.

01:18:59Guest:But...

01:19:01Guest:And this reference is me.

01:19:04Guest:I'm that guy.

01:19:06Guest:So my obligation is that.

01:19:09Guest:And so, yeah.

01:19:13Marc:Do you feel like it is a...

01:19:17Marc:Not a burden, but a gift or a mission in a way.

01:19:22Guest:If it is, I'll take it.

01:19:23Guest:Sure.

01:19:24Guest:Yeah.

01:19:24Guest:I'm saying it has to either have a point or it's automatically pointless.

01:19:30Guest:Yeah.

01:19:31Guest:So.

01:19:31Guest:But sometimes it can just be funny.

01:19:35Guest:Yeah, we have to dip it in that sauce at every point.

01:19:39Guest:That's what makes it all go down.

01:19:42Guest:That's right, the dipping sauce.

01:19:43Guest:Yeah.

01:19:44Guest:It's good talking to you, buddy.

01:19:45Guest:It was great to be in your presence.

01:19:47Guest:I waited a long time.

01:19:48Marc:Yes, and I'm so happy to have been in yours as well.

01:19:52Marc:Big fan.

01:19:52Marc:Thanks, pal.

01:19:53Marc:Thank you.

01:19:59Marc:There you go.

01:20:00Marc:Right?

01:20:01Marc:Low key.

01:20:02Marc:I was expecting a cyclone.

01:20:05Marc:Go to catwilliamslive.com for info about his 2023 and me national tour, which kicks off this Friday.

01:20:11Marc:And please hang out for a second, will you?

01:20:15Marc:Okay, folks, for full Marin subscribers this week, we're going to post a second live music mixtape.

01:20:21Marc:This is when we take live performances from the show and turn them into a unique playlist.

01:20:26Marc:This one has music from Richard Thompson, Bob Mould, Lou Barlow, Karen Kilgariff, Tenacious D, Father John Misty, and the wizard, Jay Maskis.

01:20:40Guest:Listen to me, I can't wait To see you, I can't wait To be you, I can't wait The pain's on me, I can't wait To be you, I can't wait To feel you, I can't wait

01:21:07Marc:There you go.

01:21:07Marc:We'll be posting that tomorrow.

01:21:09Marc:So sign up for the full Marin if you want to get all our bonus content, plus ad-free access to every WTF episode in your podcast feed.

01:21:19Marc:Go to the link in the episode description to sign up or click on the WTF Plus link at WTFPod.com.

01:21:26Marc:On Thursday, I talked to my Two Leslie co-star, Andrea Riceboro, the genius.

01:21:31Marc:And right now, I want you to listen to something I composed with the fellas.

01:21:36Marc:Me and Brandon Schwarzel and Ned Brower and Danny Nogueras over at Balboa Recording Studio in Glassell Park.

01:21:51Marc:But we did this primarily for entrance music and credit music for my HBO special.

01:21:58Marc:And this is The Riff.

01:26:07Marc:Boomer lives!

01:26:13Marc:Monkey, La Fonda, cat angels everywhere.