Episode 1396 - Eric McFadden

Episode 1396 • Released December 29, 2022 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it as we approach the end of another year it's happening i made it you guys made it if you can hear this you made it

00:00:27Marc:We're almost at the finish line of another year.

00:00:31Marc:Now what?

00:00:32Marc:Now what?

00:00:33Marc:Now I guess we'll just see what happens with the next one collectively.

00:00:37Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Eric McFadden.

00:00:40Marc:Now, this guy is kind of interesting because...

00:00:45Marc:I knew this kid when we were, he's only a couple years younger than me, and we grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I used to see him hanging around the area I used to hang around in when I was a kid.

00:00:56Marc:When I was a kid, I'm talking high school, I must have met Eric when I was in high school.

00:01:01Marc:He's this little guy, was running around, sometimes he had a guitar on a strap, no case, walking around, and he was a guitar guy.

00:01:10Marc:But I guess I met him.

00:01:12Marc:I must have been 16 or 17.

00:01:13Marc:He was probably 15.

00:01:16Marc:Maybe we cleared up in the conversation.

00:01:17Marc:I don't remember.

00:01:19Marc:But at that time, when I was in high school, when I was 15, I used to be a shift manager at a place called the Posh Bagel across the street from the University of New Mexico when Yale Park was there.

00:01:30Marc:Yale Park was the park on Central, Route 66.

00:01:35Marc:Next door to the Posh Bagel was a place called the Guitar Shop that had this weird kind of custom rustic but modern wooden front and had all these characters who worked in there.

00:01:44Marc:And I used to just sort of run around the block

00:01:48Marc:I mean, not run.

00:01:49Marc:I mean, the general store was around the corner, which was a head shop.

00:01:53Marc:Budget tapes and records was on one side and the guitar shop was on the other side.

00:01:59Marc:Natural Sound was down the street.

00:02:00Marc:There was a Dairy Queen.

00:02:01Marc:The Frontier was up the street.

00:02:02Marc:The Living Batch Bookstore was up the street.

00:02:05Marc:It was sort of my world.

00:02:07Marc:I was very excited to be this high school kid working in the college area with college kids and

00:02:13Marc:You know, and kind of living that life like, you know, I'm, you know, beyond my years type of deal.

00:02:19Marc:But I did have a nickname that was given to me by one of the guys who worked at the guitar shop.

00:02:24Marc:Not a great nickname.

00:02:26Marc:But this guy, Mike, Mike Wright, who Eric and I talk about, started calling me Bagel Boy.

00:02:33Marc:He was kind of a dick.

00:02:34Marc:He probably still is a dick.

00:02:35Marc:I don't know.

00:02:36Marc:We discussed the possibilities of that.

00:02:38Marc:I think he's still in the racket.

00:02:40Marc:Yeah.

00:02:40Marc:in the music racket.

00:02:41Marc:But I think he used to be in a band called Flyer that I used to go see play high school dances.

00:02:48Marc:But anyway, this whole conversation, I ran into Eric years later and I heard about Eric from Dino

00:02:55Marc:And he's been playing guitar as a solo act in bands with George Clinton's P-Funk All-Stars.

00:03:03Marc:He played behind Eric Burden Band later.

00:03:05Marc:He was in a band called Stockholm Syndrome.

00:03:08Marc:He's in a band now with Kate Vargas.

00:03:12Marc:Sergeant Splendor is the new project, but he and I had been in and out of touch a bit just texting, and I knew he wanted to be on the show, but I had to get up to speed on where he was at, and finally it happened.

00:03:25Marc:So this episode is one of those episodes where we're kind of reliving our childhood in Albuquerque around the area that we grew up in, which was a haven for music and arts,

00:03:38Marc:I mean, University of New Mexico had one of the preeminent photography departments, art history departments.

00:03:45Marc:There just felt like there was a lot going on.

00:03:47Marc:And there was a lot of people involved.

00:03:49Marc:But it could have been just the fact that I was a young guy in high school who had this opportunity of being in this world of adults and art and creativity that was...

00:04:00Marc:really above my understanding, but I wanted to be immersed in it.

00:04:04Marc:So I don't know if it was necessarily top tier, but it certainly felt that way.

00:04:08Marc:But actually, New Mexico had a lot of top tier artists, a lot of top tier photographers, certainly.

00:04:15Marc:Gus Blaisdell, the guy who ran the Living Back bookstore, was a top tier cultural critic and philosophy professor, art professor, film professor.

00:04:25Marc:I mean, there was shit going on and it was really what created my brain.

00:04:29Marc:was hanging around, was really hanging around the university, starting at the Posh Bagel and then kind of moving through those worlds.

00:04:36Marc:And Eric was there as well doing music.

00:04:39Marc:And we were a couple of years apart, so we weren't really hanging around each other.

00:04:43Marc:But he holds a prominent place in my memory.

00:04:46Marc:So it was kind of exciting to catch up with him.

00:04:49Marc:And that's going to happen.

00:04:50Marc:You're going to hear it happen in real time in a way.

00:04:54Marc:It was real time for us.

00:04:55Marc:Obviously, we recorded it before, but you'll hear it happening as it did in real time for us.

00:05:01Marc:I guess I haven't really talked to you since the holidays.

00:05:03Marc:I hope you had some good holidays.

00:05:04Marc:I went to New Mexico.

00:05:06Marc:A few things happened that I didn't think would happen on either side of the trip.

00:05:12Marc:Actually, it was all fairly surprising emotionally and otherwise.

00:05:16Marc:So I went out there last Thursday because I recorded this stuff for you guys that you heard on Monday with Courtney on the Thursday.

00:05:23Marc:And Kit was supposed to go to Chicago.

00:05:29Marc:And I was like, you're not going to get out.

00:05:31Marc:And if you do, it's going to be horrible.

00:05:33Marc:It's just not going to be fun.

00:05:34Marc:And I just I was helping her get to Chicago.

00:05:38Marc:And I said, just come to New Mexico and hang out with me and my family.

00:05:42Marc:So that's what ended up happening, which was great.

00:05:45Marc:We had a great time.

00:05:45Marc:It was much better than certainly just me being there alone because it's so much more interesting and sort of fun to to be in the position to be nostalgic by showing somebody somebody else.

00:06:00Marc:somebody you're involved with, your past through geographical locations and stories.

00:06:06Marc:And she met my dad and my dad's wife and her whole family and my friend Dave.

00:06:12Marc:And it just made the trips so much nicer.

00:06:14Marc:And we had really a pretty great time.

00:06:17Marc:And I didn't know...

00:06:19Marc:what it was going to be like with my dad as his situation mentally.

00:06:25Marc:You know, he's got the dementia a bit, so I don't know what I'm walking into, but I got to be honest with you.

00:06:30Marc:You know, despite the fact that his wife deals with...

00:06:34Marc:And whatever horrors this particular ailment brings, when I see him for the couple of days I'm there, I guess a lot of his energy goes into showing up for it.

00:06:47Marc:And it was good.

00:06:49Marc:He was present.

00:06:51Marc:He was engaged.

00:06:52Marc:Uh, he, he was, uh, he had memories of things and he still knows me.

00:06:57Marc:It's really the day of short term stuff is going, but all the other stuff is intact.

00:07:01Marc:And if you ask him about medicine, it's, it's right there.

00:07:04Marc:If you ask him about people he hates, it's right there.

00:07:08Marc:Uh, resentment's still, still, uh, full of energy.

00:07:12Marc:And, uh, it was quite, it was quite nice.

00:07:15Marc:And I, you know, I just thank God.

00:07:18Marc:Or whatever it is that I may thank in the present here for his wife, Rosie, for taking care of this man and being there for him.

00:07:30Marc:But it was kind of, I don't know, the more I see them, the more my heart opens a bit more.

00:07:36Marc:And I'm just, it doesn't feel like a responsibility.

00:07:41Marc:I feel like I want to spend whatever time I can with my old man while he still remembers me.

00:07:48Marc:Because I had him laughing, man.

00:07:49Marc:I was busting his balls hard.

00:07:51Marc:And that's a that's his favorite entertainment is me mocking him right to his face.

00:07:57Marc:And it's certainly how I learned how to do.

00:08:00Marc:It's certainly what inspired me to do the craft that I now earn a living with.

00:08:06Marc:And not unlike many Christmases before, we go to his wife Rosie's family's house and there's the whole big family.

00:08:14Marc:She had like 13 or 14 brothers and sisters.

00:08:16Marc:There's still like seven alive and their kids and grandkids and, you know, just a ton of food.

00:08:21Marc:Red chili.

00:08:23Marc:Red chili.

00:08:25Marc:And it was good.

00:08:27Marc:It was fun.

00:08:27Marc:There was a gift game, the swapping the gifts and I forget what it's called.

00:08:33Marc:I don't have a you know, it's you bring a gift and then you get open one and then somebody can take it.

00:08:38Marc:And then you get I don't know what it is, but we did it with our whole family.

00:08:41Marc:And there was some some prayers, some Jesusness.

00:08:45Marc:And I got to be honest with you, I don't mind the Jesusness.

00:08:47Marc:I hadn't seen her son, Martin, in a while.

00:08:49Marc:And I don't think I'd ever met his wife or his kids.

00:08:53Marc:My dad's wife, Rosie, has a son a little younger than me.

00:08:57Marc:And though we come from different points of view, it was all Christmas and all nice and it was all very human.

00:09:03Marc:And I'm glad that my father has this amazing family that that really cares for him and respects him and loves him.

00:09:11Marc:It's all it gets more touching maybe as I'm getting older and starting to drift.

00:09:16Marc:a bit myself.

00:09:18Marc:But yeah, I don't mind the Jesus.

00:09:21Marc:It's a comforting groove sometimes to hear a prayer here and there.

00:09:26Marc:I'm not saying I'm all in.

00:09:27Marc:I'm not saying I'm shopping around for something to hang my hopes on or my soul, but didn't mind it.

00:09:36Marc:The son of God essence about.

00:09:39Marc:And I lit the Hanukkah candles with my father, and he remembered the prayer.

00:09:43Marc:All very nice.

00:09:44Marc:It was all very nice.

00:09:46Marc:And I came home.

00:09:47Marc:Here was the miracle is some fucking miracle, man.

00:09:50Marc:I flew out of Burbank nonstop.

00:09:53Marc:There's only one or two nonstops from Albuquerque to Burbank and back.

00:09:58Marc:And so coming back on Monday, I had a seven o'clock reservation at night because it was the only nonstop to Burbank outside of like five in the morning on Southwest.

00:10:09Marc:And for some reason, I'm like, I decided the day before, two days before, I was like, fuck it.

00:10:14Marc:You know, Kit was on American and she was flying out at 1030.

00:10:18Marc:And I thought like, well, I guess I'm into LAX nonstop.

00:10:21Marc:But I thought like, well, I'll just see you later.

00:10:23Marc:And then I thought like, fuck it, man.

00:10:25Marc:What am I going to do for seven hours?

00:10:27Marc:I'm done here.

00:10:28Marc:Why don't I just switch planes?

00:10:29Marc:So I got onto her plane and I kept the Southwest ticket until I got to the airport till I was on the plane.

00:10:35Marc:On the American flight back home, then I canceled my Southwest reservation.

00:10:42Marc:I got home, and later that afternoon, my Southwest flight had been canceled.

00:10:47Marc:Like every other Southwest flight.

00:10:48Marc:I would have been in Albuquerque overnight and trying to get out, probably renting a car and driving home.

00:10:53Marc:Who the fuck knows?

00:10:55Marc:But it was one of those rare things where I just didn't want to stay in town for another day.

00:11:01Marc:seven hours the thought of it was so daunting and and something i did not want to do badly enough that i changed my flight willing to take the hit for the ticket but it turns out it was fully refundable and they canceled the fucking flight anyways you know every once in a while that shit in life happens where you're like oh yeah man hell yeah that lucked out dodged a fucking bullet right and

00:11:30Marc:So listen, Eric McFadden is here.

00:11:33Marc:You can go to ericmcfadden.com for tickets and info to his upcoming performances.

00:11:37Marc:You can tune in to his live stream that he has there every Monday live from the Red Couch with Kate Vargas.

00:11:44Marc:And this is me catching up with a guy who I kind of grew up with, or at least we grew up on the same few blocks.

00:11:56.

00:11:57.

00:12:01Marc:I got a million pedals over there.

00:12:03Marc:You can have some.

00:12:06Marc:People were sending me pedals, but I don't even know how to use them.

00:12:08Marc:I just now, I'm fucking 59 years old, and I've been playing the same pentatonic blues shit my whole life, and I just now started the Open G thing.

00:12:16Marc:Hey, see?

00:12:16Marc:It's a whole new world.

00:12:17Guest:It's never too late to fucking learn a new trick.

00:12:19Guest:That's the fifth thing.

00:12:20Guest:That's pretty fucking good.

00:12:21Marc:Out of the four things I know how to do, now I got that.

00:12:24Guest:Do you play with Open G?

00:12:25Guest:Yeah, sometimes.

00:12:26Guest:Yeah, I like it.

00:12:27Guest:You do?

00:12:27Guest:Yeah.

00:12:28Guest:I didn't start doing that shit until...

00:12:31Guest:way later either.

00:12:33Guest:Really?

00:12:34Guest:Out of necessity.

00:12:35Guest:I remember it was embarrassing because sometimes you have those moments where you're like, oh yeah, I know a pretty good amount of stuff on the guitar.

00:12:41Guest:I made a living at it.

00:12:42Guest:I played with this guy and that guy.

00:12:43Guest:And then one day, somebody stumps you.

00:12:45Guest:And then I remember, you know, Keb Moe.

00:12:48Guest:Yeah.

00:12:48Guest:I've talked to him.

00:12:49Guest:Yeah, he's great.

00:12:50Guest:We're friends.

00:12:51Guest:We've been friends a while.

00:12:52Guest:You know, we...

00:12:53Guest:One day he's playing in New Orleans.

00:12:55Guest:He's like, come sit in.

00:12:56Guest:I'm like, all right.

00:12:56Guest:He says, pick up that.

00:12:57Guest:And it's like, it's an open G. You just play some song.

00:12:59Guest:I'm like, fuck.

00:12:59Guest:And I'm like, I don't play.

00:13:01Guest:I've never played it.

00:13:02Guest:Open G. So he really fucked me up.

00:13:03Marc:Because he's playing like those slide blues things.

00:13:06Guest:Yeah, right.

00:13:07Guest:Like all that muddy shit's open G. So how'd that go that first time?

00:13:10Guest:It was horrifying because I had no idea what to do.

00:13:13Guest:So I had to get up there and pretend I knew what was going on and just find the notes on the guitar in front of people.

00:13:18Marc:That was your first open G experience?

00:13:21Marc:Yeah.

00:13:21Marc:And then...

00:13:22Marc:Oh, my God.

00:13:24Marc:Well, that's pretty bold to not be like, let me just tune it regular.

00:13:27Marc:Is that all right?

00:13:27Marc:Can I just tune it?

00:13:28Marc:Yeah, I don't think it was time.

00:13:29Marc:I think it was just like you were like on the stage.

00:13:31Marc:Where was that?

00:13:32Marc:New Orleans?

00:13:32Marc:Yeah.

00:13:33Marc:And you were just kind of hanging out watching them?

00:13:35Guest:Yeah, well, we had gotten beignets or something.

00:13:38Guest:Oh, right.

00:13:39Guest:His gig?

00:13:40Guest:Yeah.

00:13:40Marc:Yeah.

00:13:40Marc:But you like, I mean...

00:13:42Marc:like i'm trying to think like the last time i actually saw you as in the human flex like i hear from you occasionally and i remember dean brought you up i'm like i know that kid but i know that kid like i remember that kid when he was a kid like i can't like i'm trying to think the last time i saw you is it like frontier restaurant albuquerque new mexico and you said you were playing guitar and i you know i didn't really believe it and i because i remember and then he started wearing the the hendrix headband you were running around you must have been like

00:14:07Marc:16.

00:14:08Marc:Yeah.

00:14:09Marc:Right?

00:14:10Marc:Yeah.

00:14:10Marc:And running around with your fro and your Hendrix headband.

00:14:12Marc:The headband.

00:14:15Marc:Right?

00:14:15Marc:And you're hanging around with Eric Hollinger.

00:14:18Marc:Hollinger.

00:14:18Guest:Holy shit.

00:14:19Marc:Whose father was a doctor.

00:14:21Guest:That's right.

00:14:21Guest:Who my father knew.

00:14:22Guest:Exactly.

00:14:23Guest:And Hollinger was a very good friend of mine.

00:14:25Guest:He's a bassist and a guitarist.

00:14:27Guest:He was a bassist.

00:14:27Guest:But he played bass in my band Angry Babies way back.

00:14:30Guest:Was that like when you were in high school?

00:14:32Guest:Yeah, well, we started right after, like pretty much like end of high, like we were 18 years old.

00:14:37Marc:Because I remember that kid from a boat trip, like him and his family and my family went on like Elephant Butte or Cochity or something.

00:14:46Marc:I think his family had a boat.

00:14:48Guest:Is that right?

00:14:49Guest:Yeah, so there was a little connection there.

00:14:50Guest:So Eric Hollinger.

00:14:51Marc:Eric Hollinger I knew when he was a little kid because his father, Joe Hollinger, was a doctor.

00:14:55Guest:Right, exactly.

00:14:56Guest:I think his mom was Swedish or something, no?

00:14:58Guest:Yeah, and sadly his mom had died of a brain aneurysm when he was in his teens and that really messed him up.

00:15:04Guest:That was hard on him.

00:15:05Marc:Is he around?

00:15:07Guest:No, he passed away recently.

00:15:08Guest:He had gotten in a car accident many years ago, which caused some severe brain damage, and he was pretty incapacitous.

00:15:15Guest:It was a really tragic story.

00:15:17Guest:In fact, I went to see him in the hospital shortly after.

00:15:19Marc:In Albuquerque?

00:15:21Guest:It was on his way.

00:15:23Guest:He had moved to Arizona.

00:15:24Guest:He was moving back to Albuquerque, but he got in this accident.

00:15:27Guest:Yeah.

00:15:28Guest:And that was really just, that was a rough one.

00:15:31Guest:That's terrible.

00:15:32Guest:I went and saw him in the hospital.

00:15:34Guest:It was one of the first times, it was the first time I'd ever been confronted with that kind of thing.

00:15:39Guest:Something like that.

00:15:40Guest:Like he was not conscious?

00:15:42Guest:Yeah, he was conscious, but he wasn't there.

00:15:45Guest:He was very damaged.

00:15:46Guest:That's so fucking heavy, man.

00:15:47Marc:But that was the first band.

00:15:49Marc:You grew up in Albuquerque?

00:15:51Guest:I grew up there, but I wasn't born there.

00:15:55Guest:We moved when I was seven.

00:15:57Guest:So when I was seven years old, we went out there.

00:16:00Guest:Both your folks?

00:16:01Guest:Yeah, from New York.

00:16:03Marc:So you were there when you were seven.

00:16:05Marc:I'm just trying to think how... Because those days get kind of hazy to me, but I know that I was hanging around at Frontier starting... I used to work at the Posh Bagel.

00:16:15Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:16:15Guest:I loved the Posh Bagel.

00:16:16Guest:I was right next to the guitar shop where I hung out every day after school.

00:16:21Marc:Right.

00:16:21Marc:So that must have been then.

00:16:23Marc:Yeah.

00:16:24Guest:Like, I wonder what happened.

00:16:24Guest:You remember Mike Wright?

00:16:26Guest:He's around.

00:16:26Guest:I just saw him.

00:16:28Guest:In fact, he sat in with me to show about a year and a half ago.

00:16:31Guest:How's his chops?

00:16:32Guest:Great, man.

00:16:33Guest:He still got it.

00:16:35Marc:Really?

00:16:36Marc:Yeah.

00:16:36Marc:And then they're like, because I used to hang around the guitar shop, but I remember because I could never really play, but I got good guitars and I always wanted to be part of the guitar thing.

00:16:45Marc:So I always had them do work on my guitars, right?

00:16:49Marc:So I remember my first guitar was a Telecaster.

00:16:53Marc:It must have been 1976 or 77 probably.

00:16:57Marc:That was my second guitar.

00:16:57Marc:The first one was like a Les Paul Deluxe Copycat.

00:17:01Marc:Classics.

00:17:02Marc:Yeah, but that Telecaster.

00:17:03Marc:But I remember I brought it to them and I had like Fritz Daumler, right?

00:17:07Marc:Yeah.

00:17:08Marc:I had him repaint it.

00:17:10Marc:It was a beautiful cream color.

00:17:11Marc:It wasn't the yellow, TV yellow, but it was like a cream color.

00:17:15Marc:But I just wanted... So I had him paint it Candy Apple Red.

00:17:19Marc:put a gold DiMarzio pickguard on it, and two fucking DiMarzio humbuckers.

00:17:24Marc:I ruined it.

00:17:25Guest:Yeah, basically destroyed everything it was.

00:17:27Guest:You had the integrity.

00:17:30Guest:You didn't know better.

00:17:31Guest:What are you going to do?

00:17:31Marc:No, and then I got an Explorer body and had them painted over there, and I stuck the Fender neck on it, and I took the... I don't know.

00:17:37Guest:Frankenstein, just to have them do stuff.

00:17:39Marc:Yeah, but I couldn't play.

00:17:41Marc:That was the saddest thing.

00:17:42Marc:I was spending all this time over there, and I never could really play.

00:17:45Marc:But you remember those other guys?

00:17:46Marc:You remember Bill?

00:17:47Guest:wait bill pogue the guy who owned the place yeah bill oh my god he's they they called me the kid and then brian there was brian brian the bass player yeah and he yeah he worked the counter and bill owned the place yeah bill was brian dave stang dave stang man he was the only telly guy yeah and then there was uh jerry and then jerry robrand jerry robrand that fucking car dealer

00:18:09Marc:That's right.

00:18:12Marc:Him and his big poodle haircut.

00:18:13Guest:Hey, man.

00:18:14Guest:How you doing, buddy?

00:18:15Guest:Did he do like the Jeff Baxter mustache for a while?

00:18:18Marc:Yeah, man.

00:18:19Marc:Yeah.

00:18:19Marc:It was so funny because I knew when I was growing up, and then when my parents ... I went to the Toyota dealer to pick up a car before I went to college, and he was told it to us.

00:18:28Guest:He was a car dealer.

00:18:29Guest:He really was a car dealer.

00:18:30Guest:He really got into car dealers.

00:18:31Guest:Oh, my God.

00:18:32Guest:I just remember being ... They called me the kid, Brian.

00:18:34Guest:They called me Bagel Boy.

00:18:36Guest:Bagel Boy.

00:18:36Guest:Oh, shit.

00:18:38I remember ...

00:18:38Guest:I remember now.

00:18:39Guest:Yeah.

00:18:40Guest:Yeah.

00:18:40Guest:Posh Bagel guitar shop right there.

00:18:43Guest:I'd love getting stuff from the Posh Bagel or the sandwich shop on the left.

00:18:47Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:18:48Guest:Was that the little Greek place or whatever?

00:18:49Guest:I forgot what that was called, but they'd always get the kids something because I'd hang out all day, but I'd polish the guitars, take out the trash.

00:18:56Guest:Oh, really?

00:18:57Guest:I'd earn my keep around there, and then they'd grab me lunch.

00:19:01Marc:Well, yeah, well, I remember, like, you know, it had that kind of a groovy kind of wooden front.

00:19:06Marc:You know, it was, like, clearly a place built in the 70s and with somebody's vision.

00:19:09Marc:It must have been Bill's.

00:19:11Marc:But I don't remember him being able to play anything.

00:19:12Marc:He was kind of a drunky, hard dude.

00:19:15Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:19:16Marc:Right?

00:19:16Guest:Oh, but Steve Mays.

00:19:17Guest:I had to remember that and say that.

00:19:18Guest:Steve Mays.

00:19:20Guest:But...

00:19:20Guest:Which one was he?

00:19:21Guest:He was a guitar teacher there, and he's a great guy.

00:19:23Guest:We did a tribute to him recently, me and Tim Pearson, Mikey Wright, a couple years ago, and his daughter, Lily Pearson.

00:19:29Guest:Really?

00:19:30Guest:Yeah?

00:19:31Guest:I don't know if I remember him too much.

00:19:33Guest:Taught in the back?

00:19:34Guest:Yeah, he taught in the back.

00:19:35Guest:So he wouldn't have been out in front, guys.

00:19:37Marc:But do you remember, like, you know, they had that Fritz Daumler guitar framed?

00:19:40Marc:Yeah.

00:19:41Marc:And it was like this piece of furniture that was all shiny in that back room, you know?

00:19:48Marc:Yeah, that's right.

00:19:49Marc:Holy shit, man.

00:19:50Marc:But I just remember Mikey being this smart-ass dick.

00:19:53Guest:And, you know, he... He was like a little punk kid.

00:19:56Guest:You know, he was, like, too cool at that time.

00:19:57Marc:But he could play, man.

00:19:58Marc:Do you remember his band?

00:19:59Marc:What was it called?

00:19:59Marc:Traveler?

00:20:00Guest:I remember him being...

00:20:01Guest:I was younger than him a few years, right?

00:20:03Guest:You were like, how old are you?

00:20:05Guest:I just turned 57 a week and a half ago.

00:20:07Marc:Right, so I just turned 59.

00:20:09Marc:Yeah.

00:20:09Marc:So we were about two or three grades apart.

00:20:11Marc:I graduated Highland 81.

00:20:12Guest:Right, and I would have graduated 84 if I hadn't gone to New York and then got expelled for fighting, yeah.

00:20:18Guest:What?

00:20:18Guest:Yeah, that's another thing that happened.

00:20:20Guest:But I was defending myself.

00:20:22Guest:I wasn't a guy that wanted to fight.

00:20:24Guest:In New York?

00:20:25Guest:Yeah.

00:20:26Guest:This was in Syracuse, New York, though.

00:20:28Marc:So you got expelled from Highland for getting in a fight in New York?

00:20:30Marc:No, no.

00:20:31Marc:That's pretty good.

00:20:32Guest:They're really on top of shit.

00:20:36Guest:We had moved to Syracuse, and then I was doing my senior year there, and then I got expelled for defending myself against some asshole kid that was trying to fight me.

00:20:48Guest:This just so happens the principal caught it when I was grabbing the guy.

00:20:53Marc:Yeah.

00:20:53Marc:Oh, right.

00:20:54Marc:So you look like the guilty one?

00:20:56Guest:Yeah.

00:20:56Yeah.

00:20:56Guest:but like i'm trying to think so oh so you remember all that shit man i mean like the posh bagel posh eddie yeah oh wow he died this is some um ancient um history yeah man i mean around the corner the general store the general t-shirts and your pipes and bongs and underground comics that's where i got my black sabbath t-shirts of course all the stuff that guy's name was mitch

00:21:17Guest:Mitchell, yeah.

00:21:18Marc:He was kind of a goofy dude.

00:21:20Marc:And then there was Paul over at Natural Sound.

00:21:23Marc:Yeah, loved Natural Sound.

00:21:24Marc:Right?

00:21:24Marc:He was kind of a dick, too, but he had pretty good records.

00:21:26Marc:Everybody was kind of a dick then, huh?

00:21:28Marc:Well, I mean, you know, record store owners, that was like a used record store shot.

00:21:31Guest:You kind of had to be.

00:21:32Guest:That was part of the criteria.

00:21:33Guest:I think it's like if you

00:21:34Marc:It's so weird.

00:21:34Marc:The only record I remember buying there was Lee Michaels' Fifth, which has a, do you know what I mean?

00:21:39Marc:I just saw her yesterday.

00:21:41Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:21:42Marc:I just saw her, nothing to say.

00:21:45Marc:Do you know what I mean?

00:21:47Marc:Oh, yeah, you bought that record there.

00:21:48Marc:I bought that there, yeah.

00:21:49Marc:Got it.

00:21:49Marc:It's the only song on the record, really.

00:21:51Marc:I mean, he did a cover of Lee Dorsey's Ya Ya.

00:21:53Guest:What did I buy there?

00:21:54Guest:They had all the new shit.

00:21:56Guest:You know what?

00:21:56Guest:I got three records I can remember.

00:21:59Guest:Yeah.

00:21:59Guest:I got Tom Petty's Damn the Torpedoes.

00:22:01Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:22:02Guest:I got Jimi Hendrix's Band of Gypsies used.

00:22:04Guest:It's the best record.

00:22:05Guest:And Derek and the Dominoes used.

00:22:07Guest:Really?

00:22:07Guest:Yeah.

00:22:08Guest:And that changed your life?

00:22:09Guest:Yeah.

00:22:09Guest:I was 11 years old.

00:22:10Guest:I got all those records.

00:22:11Guest:Band of Gypsies is fucking the best record ever.

00:22:15Guest:Fucking what?

00:22:16Guest:I mean, come on.

00:22:17Guest:Right?

00:22:17Guest:Power of Soul, Machine Gun.

00:22:19Marc:How are you going to- But just all stripped down.

00:22:21Marc:I like Axis as love, and I like Electric Ladyland.

00:22:26Marc:But Band of Gypsies is a fucking blues operation.

00:22:30Guest:Yeah.

00:22:31Guest:Right?

00:22:31Guest:And it's raw.

00:22:32Guest:It's just live.

00:22:33Guest:And I mean, there's some real deep stuff going on.

00:22:38Guest:Yeah, that is just-

00:22:39Guest:You can't beat that.

00:22:41Marc:That's Power of Love.

00:22:42Marc:When he comes in at the beginning, you know.

00:22:45Guest:That opening lick.

00:22:47Guest:Right.

00:22:48Guest:That's beautiful stuff.

00:22:48Marc:One time I timed that lick perfectly.

00:22:50Marc:Like I used to, like when I was on an airplane, like when we were about to take off, I put that on Power of Love on just so like I could try to time that opening riff like right when the plane was like.

00:23:02Marc:Yeah.

00:23:03Marc:I'm going to try that on the flight to New Mexico tomorrow.

00:23:06Marc:You should, dude.

00:23:06Marc:Yeah.

00:23:07Marc:It's the best.

00:23:07Marc:I'm going to try that.

00:23:09Marc:One time I nailed it.

00:23:10Marc:Go ahead.

00:23:10Marc:So, like, I remember you running around, and in my memory, you used to actually carry your guitar around out of the case.

00:23:16Marc:Is that possible?

00:23:17Guest:That did happen for a little while there.

00:23:19Marc:Yeah.

00:23:19Guest:Because, really, I didn't have it.

00:23:21Marc:It was literally like you're just ready to play when you're eating.

00:23:24Guest:Like, sitting at Frontier, you had the guitar, like, ready to go.

00:23:26Guest:I was a little obsessed with that thing for a while.

00:23:28Guest:I mean, I guess I still am.

00:23:30Guest:But the thing is, at that time, it was really the thing I found that kind of made things okay.

00:23:36Guest:I was like, wow, I have this now, and I can do this.

00:23:39Guest:And I really just want to do this all the time.

00:23:41Guest:So I just...

00:23:42Guest:What kind of guitar was that thing, the first one?

00:23:44Guest:First thing I got was just a nylon string, just some pieces.

00:23:47Guest:Yeah, classical.

00:23:49Guest:Yeah, classical.

00:23:50Guest:But then I saved up.

00:23:51Guest:My dad had a 12-string Ovation, which I also would mess around on.

00:23:56Marc:With the curved back?

00:23:57Guest:Yeah, the curved back one.

00:23:58Guest:Really?

00:23:58Guest:Way back.

00:23:59Guest:Your dad played?

00:24:00Guest:Yeah, my dad played guitar.

00:24:02Guest:He's a great goldsmith by trade, but he was in bands when he was young, and he showed me some Beatles and Cream.

00:24:08Marc:So is it Jeweler?

00:24:09Marc:Yeah.

00:24:10Marc:Still?

00:24:11Guest:Yeah.

00:24:11Marc:And Taos?

00:24:13Guest:Yeah, Taos, New Mexico.

00:24:13Guest:No shit.

00:24:14Guest:Him and my mom are out there.

00:24:16Guest:What's your mom do?

00:24:17Guest:My mom has done a lot of different things, but she for a while was helping design this stuff and touring on the road.

00:24:24Guest:We used to travel doing all these shows.

00:24:26Guest:For the gold?

00:24:27Guest:And she had a store out there.

00:24:29Guest:For the jewelry?

00:24:29Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:30Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:31Guest:And she's awesome.

00:24:31Guest:She does all kinds of stuff.

00:24:34Marc:So some real hippie shit?

00:24:35Guest:Well, it's beyond that.

00:24:36Guest:It's more like high-end stuff.

00:24:39Marc:But I mean like your upbringing?

00:24:41Marc:Because I just associate like he's making jewelry, he's living in Taos.

00:24:44Guest:Yeah, it was kind of like we're pretty liberal and we're pretty hippie in a lot of ways, but just also very, in some ways, very structured.

00:24:53Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:24:53Guest:Well, that's good.

00:24:54Guest:And conservative.

00:24:55Guest:Not like we weren't, you know, I didn't sit there and smoke weed with my folks.

00:24:59Guest:No?

00:25:00Guest:Yeah.

00:25:00Guest:But...

00:25:02Guest:But they had a great regular collection.

00:25:04Guest:They had all the stuff.

00:25:05Guest:That's where I got most of my stuff.

00:25:06Guest:They had everything.

00:25:08Guest:They had Dylan in there and the Stones and the Beatles.

00:25:11Marc:I heard on some of your records, there's one record where I'm like, this is on that Gypsy record you made.

00:25:16Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:25:17Marc:Which one was that?

00:25:18Marc:Well, there's one called, is it all acoustic kind of?

00:25:23Marc:Yeah, but it was definitely kind of like it felt kind of Leonard Cohen-y.

00:25:26Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:25:27Guest:I like that stuff.

00:25:28Guest:It was probably Devil Moon or Train to Salvation.

00:25:30Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:32Guest:Let's Die Forever Together.

00:25:33Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:34Guest:I was drinking.

00:25:35Guest:You've been up and down, huh?

00:25:40Guest:Yeah, there's been some of that, but it's up these days.

00:25:43Marc:That's good.

00:25:44Marc:So let's try to pick up from where I left you.

00:25:46Marc:I guess the last time I saw you is probably when I left.

00:25:49Guest:For college, what?

00:25:50Guest:I'm going to tell you, I did run into you in the airport, but between then, that's how we exchanged numbers.

00:25:56Guest:But the last time I saw you in Albuquerque, I remember it very clearly.

00:26:01Guest:You do?

00:26:01Guest:Yeah.

00:26:02Marc:Why, did I do something shitty?

00:26:04Guest:No, it was actually... I know that's automatically where we're going.

00:26:08Guest:I must have done something terrible.

00:26:10Guest:No, but it was...

00:26:12Guest:It was at the frontier, of course.

00:26:15Guest:And we're sitting there, and I remember the booth.

00:26:17Guest:It's when you walk in the front door.

00:26:19Guest:It's on the left.

00:26:20Guest:Yeah.

00:26:21Guest:By where the video games were.

00:26:24Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:26:25Marc:No more of the video games.

00:26:26Guest:Yeah, that's gone.

00:26:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:26:27Marc:So the first or second booth on the left.

00:26:29Guest:Yeah, we're sitting there, and you were telling me, I'm going to L.A.

00:26:31Guest:I remember you specifically telling me, I'm out of here.

00:26:34Guest:I'm going to L.A.

00:26:34Guest:You picked up a newspaper.

00:26:36Guest:And you were just riffing on it.

00:26:38Guest:You kind of took the headline and you said some shit.

00:26:41Guest:I'm like, yeah, that's good.

00:26:42Guest:And I just remember, yeah, that's funny.

00:26:43Guest:That's good.

00:26:43Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:45Marc:So that must have been after I graduated college and I came back.

00:26:48Marc:You might have been.

00:26:48Marc:You must have been there, right.

00:26:50Marc:And I was kind of like, you know, I was a little fucking full of the beans.

00:26:53Marc:Yeah, so I was going to go to L.A.

00:26:54Marc:to be a comic.

00:26:55Marc:That must have been that summer.

00:26:56Guest:Yeah, you were telling me that exact thing.

00:26:57Guest:I'm going to L.A.

00:26:58Guest:to be a comic.

00:26:59Marc:Yeah, that must have been like 80, 81, 82.

00:27:03Marc:Like 86, 87, something like that?

00:27:05Guest:Yeah, I might have been about right.

00:27:07Marc:Yeah?

00:27:07Marc:So, like, in the... But, like, what's the musical history?

00:27:10Marc:Because you're one of these guys where it's like, you know, I obviously have friends who know you, musicians know you, and, you know, you've been at it a long time, and you've made a living at it, but you're still fucking out there hammering away.

00:27:23Guest:Yeah, it's still grinding.

00:27:24Guest:Grinding, yeah.

00:27:24Guest:And a lot of that...

00:27:26Marc:which i'm grateful to even have you know even having a career in this i mean that's but where so it started with uh eric and and the first band was what look because i remember like because like i listened to your records the past few days you know and like you definitely like figured out all the styles but i remember when you were first starting which like you were you know kind of uh you know like you're just like excited and you're playing just a very you were playing leads all the time but you didn't have a groove yet you know i was like kind of like just spazzing

00:27:55Guest:I hadn't figured out, there wasn't a voice, there wasn't a sense of real.

00:27:59Guest:Right, right, right.

00:28:01Guest:It was just kind of like input, a lot of input, learning stuff, wanting to do, you know.

00:28:05Guest:Yeah, so the first band was what?

00:28:07Guest:Well, I mean, the first touring band that made anything.

00:28:10Guest:Well, no, in Albuquerque, the Fuck Off band.

00:28:12Guest:That was Angry Babies.

00:28:14Guest:I mean, I did stuff before that that I really probably wouldn't even want to remember.

00:28:18Marc:Do you remember some of those cats that were around?

00:28:20Guest:in albuquerque yeah i mean remember steve larue steve larue of course he killed himself oh really sorry he was one of the first things that i did like he had me record on something i'd never done session it was like my first session he was a weird intense dude he was a weird guy smart dude yeah he was doing all he turned me on to so much ship at your budget records budget records budget i liked going in there those guys would always turn me on to stuff

00:28:43Marc:Yeah, because there was that couple there that they were into R&B.

00:28:48Marc:They gave me my first bunch of records.

00:28:49Marc:They had all these promos that they didn't play in the store.

00:28:52Marc:Oh, wow.

00:28:53Marc:And I took them.

00:28:54Marc:Really?

00:28:54Marc:And in that box was Elvis Costello's first record.

00:28:58Marc:Because he was a model?

00:28:59Guest:Yeah.

00:29:00Marc:That's where I heard it.

00:29:01Marc:I heard that album at Budget.

00:29:02Marc:Really?

00:29:03Marc:Yeah.

00:29:04Marc:And Nighthawks at the Diner, the Tom Waits Live.

00:29:06Marc:I remember those two.

00:29:08Marc:And then there was a guy there...

00:29:10Marc:You remember the couple I'm talking about?

00:29:12Guest:Yeah, oh yeah.

00:29:12Guest:Black dude and that little white lady named Ellen.

00:29:15Guest:I remember very well because I used to go in there all the time.

00:29:17Marc:He was like a smooth dude, that dude.

00:29:19Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:29:19Marc:And she was like this aggravated little redhead.

00:29:22Marc:And then there was that guy, Jim.

00:29:24Guest:Jim Regan.

00:29:25Guest:Oh, is he the guy that always said cat?

00:29:27Guest:I know this cat.

00:29:28Marc:Yeah, because he was all into the soul shit.

00:29:30Marc:He took me to his house and made me all these fucking cassettes of all the old soul shit.

00:29:36Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:29:36Marc:And then when LaRue was turning me on to Brian Eno, The Residents.

00:29:40Guest:That was his thing.

00:29:41Marc:Yeah, the weird shit.

00:29:42Marc:John Hassel.

00:29:43Guest:He would take my guitar part and then loop it or do something like it, make it backwards.

00:29:48Marc:So you were tied in with those guys, David Klemmer?

00:29:52Guest:Yeah.

00:29:53Marc:Because Klemmer...

00:29:54Marc:Sent me all this shit after LaRue died, because I'd run into Climber somewhere.

00:29:58Marc:Because LaRue just, it was only in the past couple years.

00:30:01Marc:Wow.

00:30:01Marc:And he sent me all this shit that they had, like, stuff.

00:30:06Marc:What was it?

00:30:07Marc:Lash LaRue.

00:30:08Guest:Lash LaRue.

00:30:08Guest:The Philistines.

00:30:09Guest:The Philistines.

00:30:10Guest:Wow.

00:30:10Guest:I found that record, dude.

00:30:12Guest:See, this is like, that's the stuff, man.

00:30:14Guest:That was that whole era.

00:30:15Guest:In Albuquerque.

00:30:16Guest:I was like 10 to 14, 15 at that time.

00:30:18Marc:Right, and you thought those guys were going to do it, man.

00:30:20Guest:Yeah, they were supposed to be.

00:30:21Marc:The Philistines, I auditioned for them once.

00:30:23Marc:And I only knew, like, two songs.

00:30:26Marc:Like, they came over to my house, and they were really kind of snotty.

00:30:28Marc:And, you know, all I could do was play Chuck Berry.

00:30:30Marc:And they're like, I don't think you're right for the band.

00:30:33Marc:Well, I tried, though.

00:30:34Marc:Hey, but that's something that you got up there.

00:30:37Marc:I must have been in my teens, too.

00:30:38Marc:Yeah, but I just couldn't.

00:30:40Marc:That's wild.

00:30:40Marc:So the Philistines, right.

00:30:42Marc:Steve LaRue should be in a band called Jungle Red with a guy named Greg, and they only played twice a year.

00:30:49Marc:I just remember it because they played at this party.

00:30:51Marc:This is bringing up a lot of stuff.

00:30:52Marc:Right, man.

00:30:52Marc:I had this old fucking Ibanez-Les Paul copy that my brother used to play, and Steve borrowed it, and he taped a baby doll's arm to it and just hit it with a stick or something.

00:31:03Marc:It was like total art shit.

00:31:05Marc:Jungle Red.

00:31:06Marc:I love it.

00:31:07Guest:That sounds about right, yeah.

00:31:08Marc:There was all those freaks who used to hang out there, man, at Frontier.

00:31:11Guest:Joel Peter Witkin, the photographer.

00:31:13Guest:Oh, that's right, Joel Peter Witkin.

00:31:14Guest:Yeah, and you know what?

00:31:15Guest:I got turned on.

00:31:17Guest:Do you remember an artist, R.K.

00:31:18Guest:Sloan?

00:31:19Guest:Yeah.

00:31:19Guest:Because he became... I was a fan of his, and I wanted him to do my cover, but he wouldn't.

00:31:24Guest:But then I met him and he loved the band and we ended up being friends.

00:31:28Guest:I ended up moving in with him, right?

00:31:29Guest:And he knew Joel Peter Wittgen.

00:31:31Guest:He had all this shit in his house.

00:31:33Marc:Really?

00:31:33Marc:Because Joel Peter started in Albuquerque.

00:31:36Marc:But then there were all the people in that zone, in that area that posed in those weirdo pictures.

00:31:42Marc:There was this whole freak show art scene there.

00:31:44Marc:Some guy named Neoboy.

00:31:46Marc:Ray Abeda.

00:31:48Marc:Do you remember Ray Abeda?

00:31:49Marc:He was a painter.

00:31:50Marc:Absolutely.

00:31:51Marc:All that stuff is like...

00:31:52Marc:judson do you remember judson fraundorf from was judson the singer also no judson maybe he did sing judson though he was like a real art guy but then he started a band called cracks in the sidewalk maybe maybe big guy weird looking dude that's him yeah yeah he's still doing painting he used to work at the posh bagel with that's that's yeah so this is kind of weird putting all this stuff together and you remember the broadway elks oh yeah right yeah definitely yeah

00:32:15Marc:Those guys were good.

00:32:16Marc:Wow.

00:32:17Marc:Frank McCullough's kid.

00:32:18Marc:Mike McCullough.

00:32:18Marc:Frank Jr.

00:32:19Marc:Was it Mike?

00:32:20Marc:No.

00:32:20Marc:Frank McCullough was his father who was a painter.

00:32:22Marc:And then his son played guitar.

00:32:23Marc:Right.

00:32:24Marc:And the other guy's name was Fernando or something.

00:32:26Marc:They used to play kind of that.

00:32:27Guest:Oh, no.

00:32:28Guest:It was Armando.

00:32:29Guest:Armando.

00:32:30Guest:Right.

00:32:30Guest:And they used to play that kind of like rockabilly-ish old rock.

00:32:33Guest:In fact, I remember Armando for a while was dating Paula Blanchard then, Paula O'Rourke, who became my wife.

00:32:40Guest:later and played with you know and she moved to Athens Georgia for a while yeah and she was so this is like a connect Louie Louie Armando yeah that's right you go by Louie sometimes yeah I remember going down to that uh El Madrid yeah the El Madrid they used to do like this is amazing you're bringing all this stuff up because it's leading to one thing and I haven't even thought about this stuff for uh for years

00:33:03Marc:Yeah, I mean, you got to put it together sometimes.

00:33:05Marc:I remember you let me sit in with him once.

00:33:07Marc:That's wild, yeah.

00:33:07Marc:And it didn't feel great, but I felt all right about it.

00:33:12Guest:So, all right, so you're playing in the angry what?

00:33:14Guest:Angry Babies.

00:33:14Guest:That was the thing that happened for a while.

00:33:16Guest:We did it well in Albuquerque.

00:33:18Guest:We kind of did a New Mexico thing, and we eventually made a record.

00:33:22Guest:We toured around and did the whole thing.

00:33:24Guest:Got some opportunities that we, of course, sabotaged.

00:33:28Guest:That's something I like.

00:33:29Guest:The Mutts.

00:33:30Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:33:30Guest:Chris.

00:33:31Guest:Chris Drake of the Mutts.

00:33:32Guest:I thought they were going to go.

00:33:34Guest:Didn't everyone thought they were going to go, right?

00:33:35Guest:They were supposed to be the thing, too.

00:33:37Guest:Right.

00:33:37Guest:Yeah.

00:33:39Guest:We were all going to be the thing.

00:33:41Guest:Yeah, I know.

00:33:41Guest:Bow Wow Records.

00:33:42Guest:Bow Wow.

00:33:42Guest:Fuck yeah.

00:33:43Guest:Garrett Watley.

00:33:44Guest:Speaking of my ex, Paula, bass player.

00:33:47Guest:Yeah.

00:33:47Guest:She and Garrett moved to Albuquerque together from Boston or something.

00:33:51Guest:He worked at Bow Wow Records.

00:33:53Guest:That was his thing.

00:33:54Guest:And he would do all the shows down there.

00:33:56Guest:And Paula played in a band called Murder of Crows for a while.

00:34:01Guest:I used to love my Bow Wow Records t-shirt.

00:34:05Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:34:05Marc:I wish I had.

00:34:06Marc:Remember with the dots with the spots?

00:34:07Marc:Yeah, I wish I still had that one.

00:34:09Marc:Right.

00:34:09Marc:So, all right, so you sabotaged.

00:34:11Marc:What did you sabotage?

00:34:12Marc:Did you have a real deal?

00:34:13Guest:Well, we just had, like, you know, we were doing our thing, but then we got, like, offers for a European tour.

00:34:17Guest:Oh, really?

00:34:18Marc:Did you guys have records?

00:34:19Marc:Did you have records?

00:34:20Guest:We had a couple records, yeah.

00:34:22Guest:And then Beavis and Butthead kind of found us and wanted to talk us about it.

00:34:27Guest:Really?

00:34:28Guest:But we didn't have management, and one of us was bipolar.

00:34:31Guest:I was an alcoholic.

00:34:33Guest:Yeah.

00:34:33Guest:You know how that goes.

00:34:34Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:34:35Marc:But you have records like, what was the name of the band?

00:34:39Marc:Angry what?

00:34:40Marc:Angry Babies.

00:34:41Guest:Angry Babies.

00:34:42Guest:But I made a point of not letting anyone put them up on live.

00:34:46Guest:They're still around?

00:34:47Guest:The records?

00:34:48Guest:The records, yeah.

00:34:49Guest:There's some copies.

00:34:50Guest:I think I found a couple CDs and cassettes.

00:34:52Marc:And you've put the kibosh on putting that into the world?

00:34:58Guest:I found them in bargain bins in like Austin and other places.

00:35:01Guest:I'm like, hey, that was me.

00:35:03Guest:I can buy me for two bucks.

00:35:05Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:35:06Marc:I see my books always end up there.

00:35:10Marc:So you were drunk and you had a bipolar guy?

00:35:13Guest:Yeah, you know, it was all a mess.

00:35:14Guest:And then my drummer was strung out in pharmaceuticals because he had carpal tunnel.

00:35:18Guest:We were a mess.

00:35:18Guest:We just fell apart.

00:35:19Guest:But then what happened is I started this other band, Liar, in Albuquerque.

00:35:25Guest:Then we all went to San Francisco, and that was kind of that.

00:35:27Guest:That's what Paul said.

00:35:28Guest:When did you get married?

00:35:29Guest:We got married in 2000, no, I mean, 97.

00:35:32Guest:Oh, really?

00:35:33Guest:We went to San Francisco.

00:35:34Guest:She was in the band?

00:35:35Guest:Yeah, bass player.

00:35:36Guest:She had introduced me to a lot of cool folks.

00:35:39Guest:She used to hang out with like the, you know, the R.E.M., B-52s, Westford Panic, Athens, Georgia kind of scene.

00:35:43Guest:Oh, Athens people, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:45Guest:And so, and that's, she kind of introduced me to some of those folks.

00:35:48Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:35:49Guest:So liars go to San Francisco.

00:35:51Guest:What year is that?

00:35:52Guest:And that was 95 that everybody ended up there and we kind of became kind of a thing in San Francisco.

00:35:58Guest:I was there.

00:35:59Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:36:00Marc:Sure, man.

00:36:01Marc:I mean, I was there like, wasn't I?

00:36:03Marc:You might have been.

00:36:04Marc:92, 93.

00:36:05Marc:I was living like, you know, I was living on South Van Ness and like 23rd.

00:36:10Marc:Really?

00:36:10Marc:Yeah.

00:36:11Marc:And then I moved to the Panhandle on Clayton Street.

00:36:14Guest:Wow.

00:36:14Guest:I lived in the Panhandle for a lot of that time.

00:36:18Marc:Yeah, because I was like, I was doing comedy, but I was going back and forth to New York, and I think that was like, yeah, because I was in the competition in 90, I think, like 92 and 93, I think, in the comedy competition.

00:36:30Marc:So we were just missing each other, but I wasn't doing much music.

00:36:33Guest:Wow, yeah, we would have barely just missed each other by a year or two.

00:36:37Guest:Oh, really?

00:36:37Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:38Guest:So that would have been...

00:36:39Guest:Yeah, because I got there in 94.

00:36:41Guest:You're playing at Slim's and shit?

00:36:43Guest:We were playing at Slim's in the Paradise.

00:36:45Guest:Yeah.

00:36:45Guest:Great American Music Hall.

00:36:46Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:36:47Guest:The Night Break.

00:36:48Guest:Liars.

00:36:48Guest:Bottom of the hill.

00:36:49Guest:Yeah.

00:36:49Guest:And you guys were happening?

00:36:51Guest:We got pretty happy.

00:36:52Guest:We won the BAM Music Awards.

00:36:55Guest:Yeah.

00:36:56Guest:We started playing bigger and bigger shows, opening up for cool people.

00:36:59Guest:I do.

00:36:59Guest:Going on a tour.

00:37:01Guest:Who did we open for there?

00:37:02Guest:Well, Cake.

00:37:04Guest:We used to do a lot of shows with Cake.

00:37:05Guest:Cake.

00:37:06Guest:My drummer, Paulo Baldy, who's in Lyon, ended up joining Cake for 13 years also.

00:37:11Guest:Really?

00:37:12Guest:And Les Claypool.

00:37:14Guest:So I played with Les.

00:37:14Guest:You know, Paulo joined Les Claypool's band.

00:37:17Guest:Paulo did?

00:37:18Guest:Yeah.

00:37:19Guest:As a bass player?

00:37:20Guest:Drummer.

00:37:20Guest:Oh, you're a drummer.

00:37:22Guest:Paulo.

00:37:23Guest:So you played with Les?

00:37:24Guest:Yeah.

00:37:25Guest:That must have been a schooling.

00:37:27Guest:And he still does the Claypool Lennon experience.

00:37:30Marc:No, I talked to Sean.

00:37:32Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, right.

00:37:32Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:34Guest:He's all right, man.

00:37:35Marc:Yeah, he's all right.

00:37:36Marc:So, like, were you writing all the songs for Liars?

00:37:39Guest:Yeah.

00:37:39Marc:And singing?

00:37:40Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:37:42Guest:And so what happened?

00:37:43Guest:Well, we were supposed to be this... Everyone was like, oh, the new is shooing for success, getting written up all the things.

00:37:49Guest:Everybody's lying this, lying that, playing bigger places, everything looks great as it goes.

00:37:55Guest:And then, of course, it all disintegrates because...

00:37:58Guest:And I think part of that is my friend told me I had a fear of success, for one.

00:38:04Guest:And I could not understand what the hell he meant by that.

00:38:06Guest:Although now, in retrospect, I understand a lot about myself.

00:38:09Marc:Do you understand that thing?

00:38:10Marc:Because some people say fear of success and fear of failure is the same thing.

00:38:13Marc:And I can't quite put it all together.

00:38:15Marc:Because when people say, do you still stay miserable just so you could be a comic?

00:38:21Marc:And it's like, who would do that on purpose?

00:38:24Marc:It's like if you have a fear of success, it's not like you're thinking about that.

00:38:27Marc:No, no.

00:38:27Guest:How do you identify?

00:38:28Guest:And how do you think, how can you sit there and say to yourself, I don't want to be successful?

00:38:32Marc:No, it's like it's something deeper than that.

00:38:34Marc:And people throw that around like it's something you can go like, oh, thanks.

00:38:38Marc:I'll just stop that then.

00:38:39Marc:The fuck is a fear of success?

00:38:40Marc:Maybe it's an insecurity.

00:38:41Marc:I don't know.

00:38:42Guest:But I think it's just something, it has something to do with something that's not so easily definable.

00:38:46Guest:I mean, you can't just say.

00:38:47Marc:Yeah, but it's like, you know, the truth is, though, if all things line up for you,

00:38:52Marc:you know you're you're and you're ready to go you're gonna go yeah but if all things line up for you and you're not ready to go you're not gonna be ready to go and in that could you know that might not all be on you it just sometimes it's just it's almost karmic or something like you can't explain it you can't you know the thing is you're right because it's not that i don't like there are things that i could have happened that right and if they had happened i might be dead now so that's right yeah that's

00:39:17Guest:They weren't supposed to happen.

00:39:18Guest:Right.

00:39:19Guest:So how did it all fall apart?

00:39:22Guest:Lack of commitment on a couple band members.

00:39:24Guest:Like they didn't want to go all the way in.

00:39:26Guest:You have to sacrifice things.

00:39:27Guest:You know how to do this stuff.

00:39:28Guest:What do you mean?

00:39:28Guest:They have jobs?

00:39:29Guest:Yeah.

00:39:30Guest:You can't have that.

00:39:31Guest:You know?

00:39:33Guest:You just can't be going around trying to have a job and be in the... You know, anyway.

00:39:37Guest:That's part of it.

00:39:38Guest:And then I had a kind of twisted sense of loyalty to people.

00:39:43Guest:I think some of my issues, things that I've tried to kind of delve into and work on in recent years, like my people-pleasing stuff, whatever, things that...

00:39:54Guest:Where I would, to my own detriment, sort of do things in order to pacify or please other people or work things out or compromise in ways that were not.

00:40:04Guest:You get dragged down in their spiral of whatever.

00:40:08Guest:Exactly.

00:40:09Guest:And then there was my own stuff, too.

00:40:12Guest:The boozy?

00:40:12Guest:Yeah.

00:40:13Guest:The addiction stuff and my own.

00:40:14Marc:What was your thing?

00:40:15Marc:So how fucked up were you?

00:40:18Marc:I mean, if you're still worrying about other people and trying to keep a band together, you weren't the one that... Well, I was actually sober then during those years.

00:40:25Guest:During the Liars?

00:40:27Guest:Not like programmed sober.

00:40:29Guest:I mean, I did some meetings and stuff.

00:40:31Guest:Oh, but you got clean.

00:40:32Guest:But I wasn't... Yeah, but I was...

00:40:35Guest:I had like four years and it was a pretty good run and then when things started to fall apart with the band and me and Paula split up and I lost the house, no.

00:40:44Guest:Oh, you had a house?

00:40:45Guest:Yeah, we had a house in San Francisco.

00:40:47Guest:Where at?

00:40:48Guest:Right there on Lyon between Grove and McAllister.

00:40:51Guest:So Panhandle.

00:40:53Guest:Yeah, right.

00:40:55Guest:1988 Victorian, beautiful place.

00:40:58Marc:1888 Victorian or 1988?

00:41:00Guest:Like old?

00:41:01Guest:Yeah, really nice spot.

00:41:03Guest:It was a real hub.

00:41:04Guest:And he owned it?

00:41:05Guest:Yeah.

00:41:06Guest:Oh, shit.

00:41:07Guest:We had a lot of great times there.

00:41:08Guest:People would come through.

00:41:11Guest:George Clinton would come hang out and Mike Mills, whatever.

00:41:14Guest:It would just be like a really cool hub.

00:41:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:41:18Guest:So it was kind of the jam house?

00:41:20Yeah.

00:41:20Marc:Yeah.

00:41:20Marc:How'd you meet George Clinton?

00:41:21Marc:Because you played with him.

00:41:22Marc:Was that before the Liars or after?

00:41:24Guest:No, that was after.

00:41:24Guest:That was after, right after that band, right at the time that band broke up and Paul and I split up.

00:41:30Guest:So you lose the house, you're boozing again.

00:41:33Guest:Right after that, I kind of started doing it, yeah.

00:41:36Guest:But then George Clinton, I had met him through my friend Gina Hall, who...

00:41:41Guest:a few years before.

00:41:44Guest:So we'd met and I'd seen shows and I sat in with him, but then one day he's like, get on the bus, man.

00:41:50Guest:I'm like, what?

00:41:51Guest:Were you worried about you?

00:41:53Guest:I think he, and George had a sense, like he could kind of read and like, oh, what's going on with you.

00:41:58Guest:Saw you were lost.

00:41:59Guest:Just like, well, you know, you should just get on the bus.

00:42:01Guest:Where do I send the checks?

00:42:03Guest:And next thing I knew, without warning, I'm in P-Funk, you know?

00:42:09Guest:And it's just like Lige Curry, the bass player, I'm under him, and he's like, George kind of tells Lige, watch out for Eric, just show him what the hell's happening.

00:42:20Guest:Because I'm entering this whole thing that's this ongoing... The traveling circus.

00:42:24Guest:Yeah, it's a traveling circus, a legacy.

00:42:27Guest:These guys have been doing this together for 30 years at the time.

00:42:29Guest:who was still who was in the band from the original p funk at that time when i was when i joined the band of course george and then there was uh um billy bass like the first actual band member in funkadelic you know yeah uh with george yeah so he was there right oh wow um like blackbird blackbird mcknight yeah kid funkadelic himself michael hampton right yeah he was in the band there um

00:42:55Guest:And then some guys that were pretty long-term, even if they weren't on the first few albums.

00:43:01Guest:So you're kind of like shattered.

00:43:04Guest:Yeah, I'm shattered.

00:43:05Marc:Personally, and you're on the bus with P-Funk.

00:43:07Marc:Yeah.

00:43:08Marc:And so...

00:43:10Guest:At that point, what kind of music were the Liars doing, really?

00:43:14Guest:Liar was more of a rock band with a violin, right?

00:43:17Guest:So they had Marisa.

00:43:18Marc:You liked that shit, huh?

00:43:19Marc:That kind of gypsy?

00:43:20Guest:Yeah, I was into that stuff.

00:43:22Guest:But it was like Americana.

00:43:23Guest:At the same time, I'd become obsessed with Hank Williams and Johnny Cash and all this stuff.

00:43:27Marc:Oh, so country thread.

00:43:29Guest:So they had a country edge with this middle, like this sort of gypsy thing and this sort of edgy rock with remnants of my punk rock band.

00:43:38Guest:So it was kind of this...

00:43:39Guest:It was kind of a cool sound, and it kind of took off there.

00:43:43Guest:I thought it was a unique sound.

00:43:45Guest:And do you make a record with the Liars?

00:43:47Guest:Yeah, we make two albums.

00:43:49Guest:Anything?

00:43:51Guest:Anything happen?

00:43:52Guest:I mean, it was just some local record deal, Total File Records.

00:43:57Guest:It was like we were kind of a big deal around the bay, but then touring and maybe had a few good spots, but nothing happened because we...

00:44:06Guest:We didn't have the right management.

00:44:08Guest:We didn't have the right, you know, we didn't do anything right.

00:44:10Guest:I mean, I didn't really have a great business sense.

00:44:13Guest:Who does?

00:44:14Guest:And I just didn't know how to follow through and make the things happen.

00:44:18Guest:You know, we had, you know, sure Don was, came to a show and he was all into it and we had record labels call, but I couldn't, I also had this attitude.

00:44:25Guest:I mean, I had a real thing about

00:44:27Guest:You know, you know that.

00:44:29Guest:Which one?

00:44:29Guest:I do, you know, this whole thing.

00:44:30Guest:I'm not the next Lenny Kravitz.

00:44:32Guest:And everybody always wants to package you and put you.

00:44:34Guest:Oh, right, right, right.

00:44:35Guest:Or put you and pigeonhole you and put you in this place.

00:44:37Guest:I'm me.

00:44:38Guest:I'm like, I'm unique.

00:44:39Guest:I'm Eric McFadden.

00:44:40Guest:I'm not Lenny Kravitz.

00:44:42Guest:I'm not this guy.

00:44:43Guest:Don't put me in a box.

00:44:44Guest:Yeah.

00:44:44Guest:And, you know, it's like.

00:44:46Guest:Lenny Kravitz don't have a violin in his band.

00:44:48Guest:Yeah.

00:44:48Guest:So who do you think you're talking to, man?

00:44:50Guest:Yeah.

00:44:50Guest:so that you know but things i don't know it was just i think i was really depressed when when you're told by everybody around and it looks like you're going to be the big thing and it doesn't happen yeah you know this crushing in a way it's more than just ego it's just your whole soul and your whole thing because you don't have any control over and all of a sudden you're out yeah and you're on the bus with george clinton yeah and then you're on a bus with george clinton

00:45:14Guest:Well, you know what?

00:45:16Guest:I don't have to think about much.

00:45:18Guest:The hotels are paid.

00:45:20Guest:I like that he probably was sort of trying to help you out.

00:45:23Guest:Yeah, I think he was just like, you need some direction.

00:45:27Guest:You got to do something.

00:45:28Guest:I was playing mandolin.

00:45:31Guest:I remember at a recording session, he called me on the phone.

00:45:35Guest:I remember getting the call.

00:45:36Guest:George Clinton's calling me on the phone.

00:45:38Guest:Wow.

00:45:38Marc:And you're playing mandolin for P-Funk?

00:45:41Guest:Well, he was like, yeah, at first, because he had heard me, you know, we'd known each other right before this, and I had sat in with him, right, so we kind of had a... But he invited me to, he wanted to go into the studio, went to the studio with his mandolin, because he heard me playing this thing, he got really excited, he's like, what is that?

00:45:56Guest:I'm like, I don't know, just a riff.

00:45:57Guest:He's like, let's get those mics on, so we started playing this thing, and...

00:46:01Guest:And then he decides, hey, I know what I'm gonna do.

00:46:03Guest:I'm gonna sing Gypsy Woman over that, you know, the song.

00:46:06Guest:And I'm doing my own version, but using that riff of yours.

00:46:09Guest:So I ended up on this album.

00:46:12Guest:And then, you know, so I ended up being the first and only mandolin player in P-Funk.

00:46:17Guest:And I would have run it through the wah-wah pedal and the Q-Tron and a distortion box and all this.

00:46:23Guest:And then eventually I was kind of playing like guitar half the time and then...

00:46:26Guest:How long were you with him?

00:46:28Guest:I guess about four years.

00:46:29Guest:Really?

00:46:29Guest:But then I rejoined the band in 2016 for a European tour.

00:46:33Guest:He asked me to come back to do that.

00:46:35Marc:How long was that?

00:46:36Guest:That was like maybe a month-long tour, and then we did a few shows in the States.

00:46:40Marc:So you had to learn all the classics?

00:46:42Guest:Yeah, all the stuff, all the hits, all the classics.

00:46:44Guest:And then George, he played on a couple of my records.

00:46:47Guest:He made an appearance on a couple of my albums as well.

00:46:50Guest:How's he doing?

00:46:51Guest:He's doing great, man.

00:46:52Guest:He's doing, because he got clean, he cleaned up like 10, 12 years ago.

00:46:57Guest:Yeah.

00:46:58Marc:Was Bootsy ever around?

00:47:00Guest:Yeah, I mean, Bootsy came to a couple shows, but he wasn't in the band at the time.

00:47:04Guest:But Bernie Worrell joined the band again for a little while, and him and I became really close.

00:47:08Guest:He's great.

00:47:09Guest:And he ended up touring with me and my band for a while.

00:47:13Guest:Really?

00:47:14Guest:Yeah, we really hit it off, man.

00:47:15Guest:And he was just a brilliant, wonderful guy.

00:47:17Guest:So with my Eric McFadden trio, with the greatest stand-up bass player in the world, James Whiten, we would do that.

00:47:24Marc:Who is it?

00:47:25Marc:Is it you, James Whiten, and Bernie?

00:47:27Marc:And Bernie and the drummer.

00:47:28Guest:No drummer?

00:47:29Guest:And Paolo Baldi, sometimes Jeff Cohn, sometimes Kevin Cohn.

00:47:32Guest:I didn't listen to those ones.

00:47:33Marc:What was the drive of that?

00:47:36Guest:That was my favorite.

00:47:38Guest:I think of the albums I've put out in the past, the trio stuff was my favorite with James Whiten.

00:47:44Guest:And that was pretty high-charged stuff live.

00:47:48Guest:It was really exciting.

00:47:49Guest:What was it, Funk?

00:47:50Guest:No, it was more like, it was rock.

00:47:51Guest:It was a rock band, but, you know, it got funky at times, but it was a rock band.

00:47:55Marc:Because I listened to, like, what did I listen to the other day?

00:47:57Marc:The blues record.

00:47:58Guest:Oh, that Pain by Numbers.

00:48:00Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:48:01Guest:That was like a live in the studio, Tab and Wah produced it, you know, and played a little.

00:48:06Guest:Pain by Numbers.

00:48:06Guest:Yeah.

00:48:07Guest:I thought that was good.

00:48:08Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:48:08Guest:Oh, good.

00:48:09Guest:I'm glad you like it.

00:48:10Guest:Okay, that one was coming straight out of the toxic hellfire relationship I'd been in before.

00:48:16Marc:That's when that happens.

00:48:17Guest:I love it.

00:48:19Guest:People throw the word narcissist around pretty loosely sometimes, but I think it applies pretty good.

00:48:23Guest:To her?

00:48:24Guest:Yeah.

00:48:24Guest:But I don't want to get into any bashing.

00:48:26Guest:You sure it wasn't borderline personality?

00:48:28Guest:No, actually, you know what?

00:48:29Guest:Thank you.

00:48:30Guest:That's actually more...

00:48:31Guest:what I believe actually was the case, especially from reading up on it quite a bit after that.

00:48:36Marc:Yeah, that's a rough ride, dude.

00:48:37Guest:I've been on that one.

00:48:38Guest:It was a very difficult ride.

00:48:40Guest:It was agonizing, and it was hard to get out.

00:48:43Guest:And the day that I got... I had to actually escape, and the day that I left, I flew to New Orleans and started that record, and some of the songs on it...

00:48:52Marc:Yeah.

00:48:53Marc:Because like guys like you and I have it too, where if you're like, if you have any people pleaser in you, which, which I don't necessarily think I did until I got into that relationship.

00:49:01Marc:You don't realize how codependent you are until someone manipulates you.

00:49:05Marc:Yeah.

00:49:06Guest:This was like, I was like, wow, I learned a lot about myself through that.

00:49:09Guest:That's right.

00:49:10Guest:I wouldn't ever want to.

00:49:12Marc:Well, it's just the weird thing is, is like all of a sudden you don't feel like you have any choices.

00:49:15Marc:Yeah.

00:49:15Guest:Yeah.

00:49:16Marc:And it's like, why is that happening?

00:49:17Guest:Because you would think, like, if you saw that happening to someone else, or if somebody told you you were going to be- Your friends aren't going to tell you.

00:49:22Guest:You'd be like, no.

00:49:23Marc:They're not going to tell you after you're out, and they're like, we knew it was bad news.

00:49:26Marc:Like, well, where the fuck- And you just let me- Yeah, because they don't think you'll listen, and they're probably right.

00:49:30Guest:Yeah.

00:49:31Guest:Either that, or they don't want to, like, alienate you, or- Right, right, right.

00:49:35Marc:What are you saying about my-

00:49:36Guest:Fuck you, man.

00:49:37Guest:Yeah, well, you're not my friend anymore.

00:49:39Guest:So that's a pure blues album.

00:49:40Guest:Yeah, it sure was, and I'm really glad.

00:49:43Guest:The worst, it may have been a dark period, which it was.

00:49:47Guest:It was a very dark period.

00:49:48Guest:But really, now I've got kind of the best situation.

00:49:52Guest:I mean, a better situation than I could have imagined, because now I'm with this brilliant, compassionate, intelligent, creative human being that is beyond what I could have ever expected.

00:50:02Guest:Kate?

00:50:03Guest:Kate Vargas, who's just a brilliant musician.

00:50:07Guest:We started a thing together over the pandemic when we were locked down, Sergeant Splendor.

00:50:13Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:50:13Marc:I watched a video of that.

00:50:14Marc:It's good, yeah.

00:50:15Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:50:15Marc:It's hard to define what it is, but it's good.

00:50:17Marc:Yeah, it is.

00:50:18Guest:call it it's got a mix of dance in a mix of yes it's hard to say depends on the song like we just did a second album which is kind of different than that first one I mean yes some people were in the reviews were saying like like this alt-funk desert roots was one interesting sometimes it's like this it's it's kind of

00:50:37Guest:Like Kate comes from a thing where she's very like, somebody coined junkyard folk, but she's very much from the school of Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen.

00:50:49Guest:She loves Nina Simone.

00:50:52Guest:And her stuff is just really brilliant lyrics and really kind of edgy but funky.

00:50:57Guest:And so her thing with my rock and punk and the blues background and

00:51:01Marc:so but this thing's more nice it's just kind of who knows what you having fun yeah yeah well i mean well see i think that's sort of what i've noticed with a lot of the work is that you know you're kind of an explorer and you know you're in a business where they want you to be in a box yeah you're right exactly you know what i mean that's always what are you man they want to know and they want to know now that's been my problem since the 90s they've been asking that so uh you know

00:51:23Marc:Well, yeah, same with comedy.

00:51:24Marc:Like, you know, I was angry and they're all like, you know, the cranky guy.

00:51:27Marc:I'm like, no, I'm actually really angry and I have no control over it.

00:51:32Marc:So talk to me in 15 years.

00:51:33Marc:Yeah, we'll see how it's going then.

00:51:37Marc:It takes time.

00:51:38Marc:But after the first run with Clinton, where do you end up?

00:51:42Guest:In another rock outfit?

00:51:44Guest:Well, I was doing that alongside the Eric McFadden Trio or EMT.

00:51:49Guest:Okay, so that's how many records you put out with them?

00:51:51Guest:We did three.

00:51:52Guest:Yeah.

00:51:53Guest:And I'm really proud of those.

00:51:55Guest:I like those records.

00:51:56Guest:You know, there's records that I wish I could have done better or hadn't done at all, but I think... So what are the names of the Rock and Roll Trio records or the Eric McFadden Trio?

00:52:05Guest:The first one is Diamonds to Cold.

00:52:07Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:52:08Guest:And then Joy of Suffering.

00:52:10Guest:Yeah.

00:52:10Guest:And then Delicate Thing.

00:52:12Marc:Okay.

00:52:13Marc:Yeah.

00:52:14Marc:Those are all with the trio.

00:52:15Guest:Yeah.

00:52:16Guest:And so there's different drummers, and they're all great drummers.

00:52:18Guest:Right.

00:52:19Guest:But James Whiten is always on the bass.

00:52:21Guest:He's an extraordinary... I just interviewed Ron Carter.

00:52:23Guest:Oh, wow.

00:52:24Guest:Talk about bass.

00:52:25Guest:Yeah.

00:52:25Guest:There's a guy.

00:52:26Guest:Right?

00:52:27Guest:You've got some great people on there.

00:52:29Guest:I try to listen once in a while, too.

00:52:31Guest:But it's hard to pick.

00:52:32Guest:I'm like, fuck, who should I...

00:52:33Marc:Sure.

00:52:34Guest:Ron Cutler was interesting.

00:52:35Guest:Yeah.

00:52:35Guest:He's like the guy.

00:52:37Marc:I might have to check that one.

00:52:38Marc:Yeah, yeah, sweet guy, smart.

00:52:40Marc:He's all there, too.

00:52:41Marc:Yeah.

00:52:41Marc:So these other ones, though, like Let's Die Forever together.

00:52:45Guest:You know, I like a lot.

00:52:46Guest:But that's not a trio record.

00:52:48Guest:No, it's not.

00:52:48Guest:That's just sort of it.

00:52:49Guest:That one's a little more low-key.

00:52:51Guest:It's like cellos, accordions, acoustic guitar, upright bass.

00:52:56Guest:Holy shit.

00:52:57Guest:You know, a little more that tip.

00:52:59Guest:Yeah.

00:52:59Marc:And what happened, where are you at with management and stuff and with labels now?

00:53:04Guest:Right now we're doing, the last record is on Terminus Records, great guy, just guy Jeff Ransford in Atlanta.

00:53:11Guest:Terminus, yeah, yeah, I've heard of that.

00:53:12Guest:And this new album, though, we've got a friend starting a new label, a guy that we really believe in, and it was awesome and has some...

00:53:20Guest:This is you and Kate?

00:53:21Guest:Yeah, the new album.

00:53:22Guest:What's the name of the band?

00:53:23Guest:Sergeant Splendor.

00:53:24Guest:Okay.

00:53:24Guest:Yeah, so we just did an album with Paulo Baldy on drums and Michael Urbano.

00:53:29Marc:So what are you doing out there, man?

00:53:33Marc:I mean, do you do a lot of studio work?

00:53:37Guest:I've been doing some studio work.

00:53:39Guest:Yeah, I've been also getting in there and doing that.

00:53:40Guest:I just... Like, who are you playing with?

00:53:44Guest:Like, as far as studio work?

00:53:45Guest:Well, just like, you know, like, how are you making a living?

00:53:47Guest:Just hammering it out on the road?

00:53:48Guest:There's been so much different stuff.

00:53:50Guest:You know, there's been some session work I've got.

00:53:52Guest:Yeah, that's what I mean.

00:53:52Guest:Where you get to just send some tracks, and I'm doing this...

00:53:55Guest:Speaking of, the latest thing is actually a Bernie Worrell kind of album.

00:53:59Guest:He's passed, but he's got his wife, and in conjunction with some other people are putting this thing out, so I'm going to be on that.

00:54:06Guest:It's going to be Leo Nocentelli, Stevie Wonder's on it, all kinds of cool people.

00:54:11Guest:But we do a lot of the session stuff.

00:54:14Guest:We do a lot of road work.

00:54:15Guest:But I get hired, so I'm always doing my thing, but often I'll jump off, do Anders Osborne or Eric Burden and the Animals.

00:54:23Guest:Wait, when did you tour with Eric Burden and the Animals?

00:54:26Guest:First, 2005 to 2007.

00:54:28Guest:Then I rejoined 2013 area.

00:54:33Marc:How the fuck does that happen?

00:54:34Guest:How are you the guy?

00:54:36Guest:that Eric Burden decides... Actually, that happened from... What's he, like 90?

00:54:44Guest:How old is that guy?

00:54:44Guest:He's right now about 81, I think.

00:54:46Guest:Okay, 81.

00:54:47Guest:And you know Wally I was telling you about, my friend Wally Ingram.

00:54:50Guest:So...

00:54:51Guest:You know, him and I were on tour, and Paula was playing bass with us for a- Paula, your ex-wife?

00:54:58Guest:Yeah.

00:54:59Guest:This is well after we've split up, but we're still friends.

00:55:01Guest:Okay.

00:55:02Guest:And we were playing together, and one of the shows is in Joshua Tree, and at the time, you know, Eric was living there.

00:55:08Guest:Wally's got a place there.

00:55:10Guest:And Eric came to the gig.

00:55:11Guest:Yeah.

00:55:12Guest:And he was loving the show.

00:55:13Guest:And he was like, man, this is cool.

00:55:16Guest:And it was the 35th anniversary of Jimi Hendrix's death.

00:55:19Guest:So we made Eric Byrne come up and sing a Hendrix tune.

00:55:22Guest:How'd that go?

00:55:24Guest:It was great.

00:55:24Guest:It was amazing.

00:55:25Guest:He can still belt it out?

00:55:27Guest:He's killing it.

00:55:28Guest:Really?

00:55:29Guest:When I was touring with him, he was still hitting that high A in House of the Rising Sun.

00:55:34Guest:Really?

00:55:34Yeah.

00:55:34Guest:He's doing great.

00:55:35Guest:And two weeks later, after that gig, I get an email asking if we'd be his new band.

00:55:40Guest:He basically hired me, Wally, and Paula all at once just to be the band.

00:55:43Guest:And then his old buddy, Red Young, and Keyboard still.

00:55:46Guest:So we went out and toured all over the place, Europe, States, this and that.

00:55:51Guest:When you go on tour with Burden, how many dates are you doing?

00:55:54Guest:Well, we would hit it pretty hard.

00:55:55Guest:We'd stay out and just do- On a bus?

00:55:58Guest:Yeah, on a bus, yeah.

00:56:00Guest:So the European dates would be pretty- Is that good bread?

00:56:04Guest:Yeah, I mean, it was better than I was used to making, you know, it was consistent.

00:56:08Guest:I mean, I think part of it was I didn't have to book hotels, I didn't have to book gigs.

00:56:12Marc:And P-Funk too was pretty consistent?

00:56:14Guest:Yeah, so it's like, it's good money in a sense, but it's not so, it's like, I make that much money at my gigs most often, you know?

00:56:21Guest:Yeah, right.

00:56:21Guest:But I think the thing is,

00:56:23Guest:I'm not having to take any risk, and I'm not having to handle logistics.

00:56:28Guest:You just get on the bus, and they got a road manager.

00:56:30Guest:Yeah, so it's a lot less stress and a lot less pressure, and it's a great experience.

00:56:35Guest:You get to play with these guys, hear their stories.

00:56:37Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:56:38Guest:So I really like doing it.

00:56:40Guest:I like being a side guy.

00:56:40Guest:Do you learn tricks on the guitar?

00:56:43Guest:Well, they always challenge you to do something different, because everybody has different demands.

00:56:47Guest:Whether it's Kev Moe saying, play an open G, or whether it's Eric Burden saying, learn to play slide.

00:56:51Guest:Is that how you learn?

00:56:53Guest:Yeah, because I didn't play slide.

00:56:55Guest:What do you play?

00:56:56Guest:That's open.

00:56:56Guest:What do you use?

00:56:57Guest:Open G?

00:56:58Guest:Well, it depends.

00:56:59Guest:With Burden, I would have

00:57:00Guest:I had this old Gibson archtop that I would keep tuned sometimes to an open G or an open E or something.

00:57:11Guest:But sometimes I just play it in the standard tuning.

00:57:13Guest:What songs he used for Slide on?

00:57:16Guest:At that time that I first started playing with him, he had a record out called Soul of a Man, and there was a lot of Slide playing on that album.

00:57:24Guest:The old animal stuff we were doing, not so much.

00:57:27Guest:What'd you do?

00:57:27Guest:Like, it's my life.

00:57:29Guest:Yeah.

00:57:29Guest:Well, we did that one.

00:57:30Guest:Yeah, we did.

00:57:31Guest:House of the Rising Sun.

00:57:32Guest:Of course, House of the Rising Sun had to do it.

00:57:33Guest:Don't let me be misunderstood.

00:57:35Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:57:35Guest:Don't let me be misunderstood.

00:57:36Guest:Don't bring me down.

00:57:37Guest:Yeah.

00:57:38Guest:We do a little bit of war stuff, spill the wine, sometimes tobacco road, you know.

00:57:43Guest:Yeah.

00:57:43Guest:Spill the wine.

00:57:44Guest:Yeah, it was cool, yeah.

00:57:46Guest:I really enjoyed doing that.

00:57:48Guest:Who taught you on the road, though?

00:57:51Guest:How do you know Jackson Brown so well?

00:57:55Guest:Well, my friend Pat McDonald, he's one of my closest and oldest friends, and he was in a band called Timbuk3 in the 80s.

00:58:01Guest:I remember Timbuk3.

00:58:02Guest:Future's so bright, I gotta wear shades, right?

00:58:04Guest:I remember Timbuk3 was on tour and they were playing, the last show was in Albuquerque or something.

00:58:11Guest:But Pat had stayed in Albuquerque.

00:58:15Guest:And he was actually at the Dingo Bar in Albuquerque.

00:58:19Guest:And the night that my...

00:58:22Guest:And Paula's band, Paula O'Rourke's band was playing.

00:58:25Guest:Myrtle Crows were doing a reunion.

00:58:27Guest:It was summer of 95.

00:58:28Guest:And so I meet Pat there.

00:58:31Guest:My friend Miguel, who owns the Dingo, introduces me to Pat.

00:58:34Guest:And we kind of talk, blah, blah, blah.

00:58:36Guest:A month later, Liar's on tour, playing in Austin.

00:58:39Guest:And who's opening solo?

00:58:40Guest:Pat McDonald.

00:58:41Guest:He loves the band.

00:58:44Guest:We all love him.

00:58:45Guest:Whenever we go to his place, go to the studio, record a couple tracks.

00:58:51Guest:Then he comes to San Francisco, ends up staying with us every time.

00:58:54Guest:We just develop a friendship.

00:58:56Guest:Fast forward, him and I, Paul and I go to Spain, stay with him.

00:59:01Guest:We end up having a... I go to Spain regularly.

00:59:04Guest:We start touring and so forth.

00:59:06Guest:We start the legendary Sons of Crack Daniels, which was our...

00:59:09Guest:little side thing yeah so but and he starts so that's kind of oh so this is where it goes in Barcelona one time yeah I had met Jackson through Pat Jackson let me and Paula stay at his place yeah in Barcelona and Jackson's got a place in Barcelona

00:59:27Guest:Yeah, quite a cool little spot.

00:59:30Guest:And then after that, we just kind of, you know, we'd come to the gigs here and there.

00:59:34Guest:We just started talking.

00:59:35Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:59:36Guest:And that's been like 20 years now, right?

00:59:40Guest:But he also was part of a Steelbridge Songfest that Pat founded at the festival.

00:59:45Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:46Guest:Him and Jackson, they bought, and Wally are all investors in the Holiday Music Motel in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, where these festivals were founded.

00:59:55Guest:It's so funny.

00:59:55Marc:It's like a million different things.

00:59:57Guest:I know.

00:59:58Guest:All these things connect in these strange ways.

01:00:01Guest:So that's kind of how Jackson is linked through basically Wally and Pat.

01:00:05Guest:When Kate and I made her album, the latest Kate Vargas album, Rumpumpo, we were supposed to record it in New York, and then the pandemic hit.

01:00:15Guest:We ended up going to Malibu after a few months to stay with friends.

01:00:18Guest:Her producer, it turns out, moves 20 minutes away from New York.

01:00:23Guest:We do a record, but she doesn't have her guitar, right?

01:00:25Guest:Because it's in New York.

01:00:27Guest:Who?

01:00:27Guest:Kate?

01:00:28Guest:Kate, right?

01:00:28Guest:So Jackson loans Kate one of his because he's the only guy that's got a cool old Gibson similar to comparable to Kate's.

01:00:36Marc:Did you give her one of those FJNs, one of those weird ones with the flamenco pick guards with the fat neck?

01:00:41Marc:Have you seen those?

01:00:42Marc:No.

01:00:42Marc:I have one of those, and he buys all of them.

01:00:45Marc:There's only a couple of people that play him.

01:00:46Marc:They're kind of hard to find.

01:00:47Marc:They only met him for a few years.

01:00:48Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:00:49Guest:No, it was just more like an old late 60s Gibson kind of thing.

01:00:54Guest:J45 or something?

01:00:55Guest:Yeah, like she had a, what's her, was it B50, 60?

01:00:57Guest:Was it acoustic?

01:00:58Guest:Yeah, acoustic, yeah.

01:01:01Guest:So he lent it to her?

01:01:02Guest:So he lent it to her, and it was like this everything coming together.

01:01:05Guest:We couldn't make the record because we're in Malibu and the producer's in New York, but then he moves to- Down the street?

01:01:10Guest:Down the street.

01:01:10Guest:And you go recording at Jackson's?

01:01:11Guest:Jackson's there, and he's got the guitar.

01:01:13Marc:In Long Beach?

01:01:14Marc:Did you go record at his place?

01:01:15Guest:No, we did it at the Charles Newman's place for producer.

01:01:19Marc:Oh, isn't like Jackson's place, it's just on the west side?

01:01:22Guest:Yes, it's a great spot.

01:01:23Guest:That's where we got the guitar.

01:01:25Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:01:25Guest:Yeah, it's nice over there.

01:01:26Guest:Yeah, I'd like to do some recording.

01:01:28Guest:I never actually recorded in this place before.

01:01:30Marc:No?

01:01:31Guest:No.

01:01:31Marc:But you talked to him?

01:01:33Guest:Yeah.

01:01:33Marc:You guys are still pals?

01:01:34Guest:Yeah, just two days ago he told me, I said, I'm coming to talk to Mark.

01:01:37Guest:I just listened to your interview.

01:01:39Guest:Yeah.

01:01:39Guest:He said to say hello, so...

01:01:40Guest:He's all right.

01:01:41Guest:Yeah, he's great.

01:01:42Marc:It's so weird, man, these cats who, you know, like that everybody knows because of like a few huge records and a few great songs.

01:01:50Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:01:51Marc:They just never, they're just like, they're dug in to your brain.

01:01:56Guest:You cannot get away from, I mean, just like, those are like, you know.

01:02:01Guest:And that Jesse at Davis.

01:02:04Guest:Wow, that solo on Dr. My Eyes.

01:02:06Marc:Come on, dude.

01:02:06Marc:He told me it was one thing.

01:02:08Marc:He just knocked it out.

01:02:10Yeah, right.

01:02:10Guest:That's a great solo, man.

01:02:12Guest:My dad would sometimes bring that solo up.

01:02:14Guest:It's like that solo in Dr. Maya.

01:02:16Marc:I got those Jesse Davis solo records.

01:02:18Marc:There's like two.

01:02:19Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:02:19Marc:And they're great.

01:02:21Marc:And also, when you did the acoustic ACDC record, was that just for fun?

01:02:28Marc:Did you think it would sell?

01:02:30Marc:What's the idea there?

01:02:31Marc:Because I've heard people do acoustic versions of ACDC songs, but you did the whole record, basically.

01:02:34Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:35Marc:And what was the angle?

01:02:36Marc:You just wanted to do it for fun?

01:02:38Guest:Well, it was fun.

01:02:40Guest:I wanted to do it, but it wasn't even my idea.

01:02:42Guest:Here's the thing.

01:02:42Guest:There's this French label, Bad Reputation.

01:02:45Guest:Okay.

01:02:45Guest:And I've been working with them off and on for years.

01:02:48Guest:And they've put out some of these albums, like Devil Moon and a few of these.

01:02:54Guest:I'm doing one for them now.

01:02:56Guest:Your records.

01:02:57Guest:Yeah.

01:02:57Guest:But he loves the idea.

01:02:59Guest:I did a tribute album like 12 years ago.

01:03:00Guest:He said, would you just do a covers album?

01:03:03Guest:I'm like, yeah, why not?

01:03:04Guest:It's fun.

01:03:05Guest:So we did everything from The Clash to Dylan to Stones, whatever, you know.

01:03:10Guest:And then he wanted me to do a rock.

01:03:14Guest:He says, it has to be, I want you to do a cover album, but just all one band, but somebody that's like a well-known,

01:03:21Guest:really well-known legendary rock band that's not at all known for acoustic stuff yeah like it can't be zeppelin because they did a lot of something that's so not acoustic yeah i get it yeah so uh hgdc is what we came up with you know yeah and uh and i'm like i love that sure

01:03:37Guest:A big part of my childhood.

01:03:38Marc:How did you forget that lick I'm beating around the bush?

01:03:40Marc:Like, I can't figure that out.

01:03:41Marc:Is it easy?

01:03:42Guest:Oh, man.

01:03:43Guest:Is it easy?

01:03:44Guest:It's not easy.

01:03:44Guest:See, that's the thing.

01:03:46Guest:Easy's relative to your skin.

01:03:48Marc:Well, dude, like, I just, like, you know, like, I was listening to Can't You Hear Me Knockin'.

01:03:52Marc:Yeah.

01:03:53Marc:And there was, like, and there's a turnaround on that.

01:03:56Marc:when he goes to the open G and there's a riff, and it was like, when I listened to a recording of it, isolated, I'm like, how is he doing that?

01:04:05Marc:But then when you get onto the open G thing, it's like it's right there.

01:04:09Marc:But like beating around the bush, I think at different points in my life, I've tried to, it's so fast, and you play it on the acoustic record even faster than Angus is playing it.

01:04:18Guest:Yeah, because I really wanted to have that sort of like... Where's that coming from?

01:04:21Guest:That's probably me because I'm... This time it's not.

01:04:25Guest:I don't know what's going on.

01:04:26Marc:Oh, shit.

01:04:27Marc:It's my phone.

01:04:27Guest:Oh, there.

01:04:28Guest:See?

01:04:28Guest:It's my dad calling from New Mexico.

01:04:30Marc:All right.

01:04:32Guest:Say hi to dad.

01:04:33Marc:Yeah.

01:04:33Marc:He won't remember.

01:04:34Marc:So.

01:04:36Guest:I wanted to have that real like hootenage, so it had to be a little faster.

01:04:39Marc:I know, so you were jamming it faster.

01:04:41Marc:You did like countryed it up.

01:04:42Marc:Yeah, so it had.

01:04:43Marc:You wood grassed it up, beating around the bush.

01:04:44Marc:Yeah, I had to do that, you know, had to do that.

01:04:46Marc:But you had to work that riff out.

01:04:49Guest:It was hard, right?

01:04:50Guest:You know what, I had that riff from way back, you know what I mean?

01:04:52Guest:Oh, because you'd learned it when you were a kid?

01:04:53Guest:Because I've been playing that one since I was a kid.

01:04:55Marc:Oh, really?

01:04:55Marc:Yeah.

01:04:56Marc:That's such a great one that no one, there's a couple of, like that one, beating around the bush is like great.

01:05:01Marc:That's from Highway to Hell, I think.

01:05:03Marc:Yeah, it is.

01:05:03Marc:And then, uh,

01:05:04Marc:But there's some ones that people don't really know or play, like Gone Shooting.

01:05:09Marc:Yeah.

01:05:09Marc:Like, I can't even figure out that riff, and it's like three goddamn notes.

01:05:13Marc:Yeah.

01:05:13Marc:I'm bad at figuring shit out.

01:05:15Marc:That's why I got to start just not being ashamed.

01:05:18Marc:Just go to YouTube and fucking find it.

01:05:20Guest:Yeah, just do it.

01:05:21Guest:Or you and I can just work on it after this.

01:05:24Guest:You know Gone Shooting?

01:05:25Guest:I don't know.

01:05:26Guest:I've never played it.

01:05:27Guest:But we could learn it.

01:05:28Guest:It's easy, man.

01:05:28Guest:I'll figure it out.

01:05:29Guest:You don't have to give me a guitar lesson.

01:05:31Guest:But then he did an Alice Cooper one too, right?

01:05:33Guest:Yeah, that was also the same label.

01:05:35Guest:So we did that.

01:05:35Guest:Alice Cooper covers.

01:05:36Marc:Yeah.

01:05:37Marc:But he actually did almost all his songs are pretty songs.

01:05:40Marc:I know.

01:05:40Marc:Isn't that kind of crazy?

01:05:42Marc:Yeah, because he was like best friends with Bernie Taupin.

01:05:45Marc:Yeah, right.

01:05:45Marc:And they used to write songs together.

01:05:47Marc:He'd do this rock and roll theater thing and have a couple of big rock songs.

01:05:51Marc:But they were all ballads and pretty songs.

01:05:53Guest:Yeah, chord changes and stuff.

01:05:54Marc:Oh, dude, like Only Women Bleed?

01:05:56Marc:I mean, what the fuck is that?

01:05:58Marc:That's Alice Cooper's song.

01:05:59Guest:Yeah, crazy, right?

01:06:00Guest:People think of him as this crazy shock rocker metal guy, but he's actually far more than that.

01:06:06Guest:I mean, that hardly defines him at all.

01:06:09Marc:Yeah, no, it's just that's his clown.

01:06:12Marc:That's his circus act.

01:06:13Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:06:14Marc:Underneath it, he's just a song guy.

01:06:15Marc:So where you go from here, man?

01:06:17Marc:So you've got all these records out, but the new project that you're kind of like excited about is Sergeant Splendor with Kate, right?

01:06:24Guest:Yeah, Kate Vargas and I are doing that, and we're really, you know, next year will be a lot of touring coming up.

01:06:29Guest:We're doing some festivals, you know, Bottle Rock and... You got a fan base?

01:06:33Guest:Do I?

01:06:34Guest:Yeah.

01:06:35Guest:I got a fan base.

01:06:35Guest:I mean, it's not like Van Halen or Madonna fan base.

01:06:39Guest:No, of course.

01:06:40Guest:Yeah, me neither.

01:06:42Guest:But you can sell a few tickets.

01:06:43Guest:Yeah, but people will come.

01:06:45Guest:We have enough of a fan base to have a career.

01:06:47Guest:But Kate's got her fans.

01:06:49Guest:I got mine.

01:06:49Guest:Great.

01:06:50Guest:So hopefully we can combine them.

01:06:52Guest:Yeah.

01:06:53Guest:And keep making new kinds of music.

01:06:55Guest:Keep making stuff.

01:06:56Guest:That's the thing.

01:06:56Guest:It's like we got... I mean, that's what I like to do.

01:07:00Guest:I'm not going to stop doing that.

01:07:01Marc:Well, I mean, I think that's sort of what you like.

01:07:03Marc:The reason you keep going is it seems that you enjoy constantly creating new stuff that's not hinging to anything specific.

01:07:14Marc:You're free to do that.

01:07:14Marc:Whether it's a career you want to have in terms of financially or notoriety, you can do whatever the fuck you want.

01:07:21Guest:Yeah, and I like that idea.

01:07:22Guest:I like doing whatever the fuck I want.

01:07:23Guest:I mean, everybody ideally wants to do that, right?

01:07:26Guest:Ultimately.

01:07:27Guest:But we make sacrifices and compromises for other reasons.

01:07:30Guest:Either people are willing to sell a little bit of their soul for a little bit of this or that.

01:07:36Guest:And I'm not saying I'm above that.

01:07:38Guest:You know, entirely.

01:07:40Marc:He's putting that out there, folks.

01:07:42Marc:He's willing to sell a little bit of his soul.

01:07:43Marc:Just a little.

01:07:44Marc:Not much.

01:07:45Marc:If the price is right.

01:07:45Marc:Yeah, right.

01:07:46Marc:But maybe like, you know, if an instrumental track under a commercial would be okay.

01:07:51Guest:Yeah.

01:07:52Guest:Thanks, Mark.

01:07:53Guest:That's kind of what I'm getting at.

01:07:55Guest:17 to like 25% of my soul.

01:07:57Guest:No more than that.

01:07:58Marc:Yeah, that's it.

01:07:58Marc:That's all I can afford.

01:08:00Guest:Well, it was great seeing you, man.

01:08:01Guest:It was great talking to you.

01:08:02Guest:Yeah, it was a real pleasure, Mark.

01:08:03Guest:I'm glad.

01:08:04Guest:I appreciate you inviting me down here to have a chat.

01:08:08Marc:You feel good?

01:08:08Marc:You feel like it was thorough?

01:08:09Marc:We think you did all right?

01:08:10Guest:It's never thorough.

01:08:11Guest:There's so much more to talk about all the time.

01:08:12Guest:Is there like what?

01:08:13Guest:What do we got?

01:08:14Guest:What did we miss?

01:08:14Guest:No, no.

01:08:15Guest:There's, you know.

01:08:17Marc:All right.

01:08:17Marc:Maybe I'll make you show me some licks.

01:08:19Marc:Yeah.

01:08:25Marc:That was Eric McFadden.

01:08:26Marc:Well, that was fun catching up, right?

01:08:30Marc:Learning about a guy I knew when we were kids.

01:08:32Marc:You can go to ericmcfadden.com to get up to speed on all his upcoming shows.

01:08:37Marc:And it's also where you can watch his Monday night show, Live from the Red Couch with Kate Vargas.

01:08:43Marc:And look, hang out for a second, will ya?

01:08:47Marc:For full Marin subscribers, we've got another archive deep dive where Brendan and I pick an episode out of the archives and get into all the details, the backstory and the stuff that's happened since.

01:08:58Marc:This week, it's episode 161 with Joe Rogan.

01:09:01Guest:You guys, you and your writing team wrote a show, an episode of Marin for IFC that involved Joe.

01:09:08Guest:In fact, the title of the script was The Joe Rogan Experience.

01:09:13Guest:And he was supposed to play himself.

01:09:15Guest:He had agreed to play himself.

01:09:17Guest:Red Band had agreed to come on as like his sidekick.

01:09:21Guest:And then I think he saw the script and he bailed, which was interesting because you then changed the script to CM Punk and Colt Cabana, the wrestlers.

01:09:31Guest:Yeah.

01:09:31Guest:And it didn't change much.

01:09:32Guest:So it's interesting that he had such a problem with how he was portrayed in it, where I remember him saying like,

01:09:39Guest:This makes me look like a bully.

01:09:41Guest:It didn't really.

01:09:43Marc:We took everything in that script from things he actually said.

01:09:46Marc:It was a guy who was kind of spinning the yarns.

01:09:50Marc:There was a little bit of conspiracy in there, a little bit of aliens, the stuff that Joe talks about or did at that time.

01:09:57Marc:But we literally almost took all of it verbatim.

01:10:00Marc:And he said, this makes me look like a clown.

01:10:02Marc:And I'm like, you said all of that.

01:10:04Marc:If you want to subscribe for full Marin bonus content and access to all WTF episodes ad-free, go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF Plus or go to the link in the episode description.

01:10:17Marc:And while you're in the episode description, you can click the other link to submit a question for next week's Ask Mark Anything episode.

01:10:24Marc:Next week on the show, we've got Ben Foster on Monday and Colin Hanks on Thursday.

01:10:29Marc:I am digging this sound.

01:10:31Marc:I've used it the past three shows.

01:10:33Marc:This is a big old 335 plugged into a little old 1953 Deluxe, cranked up basically.

01:10:40Marc:And I think it's where I'm at.

01:10:44Marc:It's definitely where I'm at right now, whatever the fuck this tone is.

01:10:48Marc:¶¶

01:11:20Yeah.

01:12:51Thank you.

01:13:21Guest:boomer lives monkey la fonda cat angels everywhere

01:13:52Thank you.