Episode 1380 - Chris Redd
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it little bouncy i'm in kind of a bouncy room i just got to oklahoma city don't know what to make of it yet
Marc:I don't know, I just have no sense of Oklahoma City.
Marc:I can't say that driving in made me go like, wow, I gotta live here.
Marc:That hasn't happened yet.
Marc:But that generally does happen these days when I travel.
Marc:I get to a small city and I think like,
Marc:I got to live here.
Marc:I did have a little of that in Tulsa.
Marc:Have not had it here yet.
Marc:You're going to be listening to this the day after the show.
Marc:We'll assume it went well.
Marc:Tonight, I'll be in Dallas, Texas at the Majestic Theater.
Marc:Tomorrow, I'll be in San Antonio at the Tobin Center.
Marc:And on Saturday, I'll be in Houston at the Cullen Theater.
Marc:I just want to get that out of the way.
Marc:There's a little run we're doing.
Marc:Me and Bites are knocking out Texas and Oklahoma City.
Marc:That's what's happening.
Marc:That's where we're at today.
Marc:on the show uh i talked to chris red now this is before we we talked before he got punched in the face with the brass knuckles in front of the comedy cellar he's he's recovering from that it seems um and and that and this is a an interview before that so there'll be no talk of that
Marc:And I did ask him why he left SNL, which he was a cast member for many years.
Marc:And he's got an HBO special called Why Am I Like This?
Marc:And that's out now.
Marc:So that's why I talked to him.
Marc:And I've known him for a few years, seen him around, just never happened.
Marc:Today is the day.
Marc:So look, I've gotten into a situation.
Marc:Look, it's not important.
Marc:I'll walk you through it.
Marc:So the other night,
Marc:I had a spot at Largo.
Marc:I was doing Judd Apatow show.
Marc:It's a benefit for charity.
Marc:It was me and Melissa Villasenor and Dana Carvey.
Marc:I also had to do the comedy store at 830.
Marc:And these are spots that I accepted that I wanted to do.
Marc:Not really thinking ahead because I don't know how to do that.
Marc:It seems that I had to get a like a 5 a.m.
Marc:car in the morning to go to the airport to fly to Oklahoma City.
Marc:But that's not really the problem.
Marc:The issue was there's a place.
Marc:It's called Craig's Restaurant.
Marc:I know the guy, Craig.
Marc:I've met him before.
Marc:I don't eat there a lot.
Marc:But it's kind of like the neighborhood restaurant for the neighborhood of Hollywood.
Marc:in the celebrity sense, in a way.
Marc:It's kind of a watering hole.
Marc:It's like the old Dantana's.
Marc:It's just the kind of go-to restaurant over there near Beverly Hills.
Marc:Now, I've been there a couple times.
Marc:I've been there to eat with Jeff Ross a couple times.
Marc:I've been there to eat with Judd a couple of times.
Marc:Like I said, I've met the maitre d over there and I've met Craig himself, had many conversations with him.
Marc:I went to Mike Binder's birthday party at Craig's, but I still don't know whether or not I can get a table at Craig's.
Marc:Now, the thing is, is like, look, this is not, it's not a real problem, but it just was, I wanted to eat there.
Marc:I wanted to take Kit to Craig's.
Marc:She had never been there.
Marc:She had heard about it.
Marc:She's doing a job now where it's good for her to know about new restaurants.
Marc:So I wanted to eat at Craig's, but I decided to do that at like 4.30 on the night that I wanted to eat there.
Marc:And it was also the night that I had to do the two spots and I had to go do judge shows.
Marc:So I wanted to eat at Craig's, but here's what usually happens when I want to eat at Craig's.
Marc:Because I don't make a reservation, I generally will text Jeff Ross.
Marc:So I'll text Jeff Ross and I'll say, here, I've got the text chains on this, all right?
Marc:I said...
Marc:How's it going, man?
Marc:I want to go to Craig's at seven.
Marc:Who should I call?
Marc:Just me and the chick.
Marc:I put my name in.
Marc:So what happens is I say, how's it going, man?
Marc:I want to go to Craig's at seven.
Marc:Who should I call?
Marc:Just me and the chick.
Marc:Now I don't hear back from him.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I'm starting to squirm.
Marc:And I'm like, well, fuck.
Marc:I guess I'm just going to have to go the regular way.
Marc:I'm just going to have to call and see if my name lands at all.
Marc:See, I'm really not a celebrity.
Marc:I don't have a big name.
Marc:And I don't go out to eat much.
Marc:See, most of it, I think, is really just about being a regular place.
Marc:But I cook my own food all the time.
Marc:So I don't go out to eat much.
Marc:But I wanted to go.
Marc:And it was my assumption that these people, the couple of people that I know, you know, have pole, have sway, have juice.
Marc:So what I do is I basically make Jeff Ross my assistant in this situation and he he doesn't get back to me.
Marc:So I call Craig's and I put my name in.
Marc:All right.
Marc:But that here's how that goes.
Marc:So I call and a woman answers and I go, do you have any tables?
Marc:Oh, no, it didn't go like that.
Marc:I said, hi, it's Marc Maron calling.
Marc:Do you have any tables at seven o'clock tonight for two Marc Maron?
Marc:So I dropped the Marc Maron and nothing.
Marc:I get zero, nothing.
Marc:Look, this isn't even, it's not necessarily even a high-end restaurant.
Marc:It's just a place to eat, but it's the place to eat for certain people.
Marc:And I guess I'm not one of those people.
Marc:That's what I'm assuming.
Marc:So she goes, well, I can put you on a waiting list.
Marc:And I'm like, okay, how do you spell the last name?
Marc:And it's just sort of like, all right, why don't you just say that I don't matter, right?
Marc:Again, this is a luxury problem.
Marc:But now, like, you know, because Jeff's not really getting back to me, I got to pull Apatow into this.
Marc:So I go, hey, man, can you help me get into Craig's at seven?
Marc:I wanted to go there before the show with the girl.
Marc:I just don't have a contact.
Marc:The guy knows me.
Marc:I gave them my name.
Marc:Fuck it.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:So that happened.
Marc:Like neither Jeff nor him get back to me.
Marc:So I tell him that I gave them my name.
Marc:Fuck it.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:So now on the other front, Jeff Ross.
Marc:sends me a phone number he sends me a guy named nick who's the maitre d so now i i'm gonna text nick this is how this is going so i've got apatow engaged i've got jeff ross engaged i've called craigs and now
Marc:I'm gonna I'm gonna text Nick who I I'm pretty sure I've met a couple of times right so I said hey Nick it's Marc Maron I've met you before with Jeff Ross and Judd Jeff gave me your number was trying to get in to eat at 7 before I do Judd show at Largo is that possible just me and my girl thanks sorry to bother I go back to Judd because Judd hasn't gotten back to me at all so I said Ross gave me Nick's number I'm good we'll see and then I wrote good talk and he hadn't talked to me at all
Marc:And then like a little while later, he texts me, sorry, I missed your request.
Marc:I'm sure I would have gotten you a better seat than Ross.
Marc:And I said, no one has gotten me anything.
Marc:Just texted Nick.
Marc:But yeah, probably.
Marc:I'm not cool enough to get into that place.
Marc:And I said, have to do the store at 830.
Marc:Then I'll come to Argo.
Marc:And then he says, sounds good.
Marc:Do you want me to contact Craig's?
Marc:And I said, I just texted Nick, dropped your name and Ross.
Marc:I don't know what else I can do.
Marc:I just want a table for two at seven.
Marc:And I assume they are hiding one that only special people can have.
Marc:They are right.
Marc:I mean, Craig knows me.
Marc:I just don't go there much.
Marc:And then Judd texts back, I assume they will come through, but maybe you should call the restaurant and let them know you are texting with Nick.
Marc:And I said, I already put my name on a waiting list.
Marc:I should call back and tell them.
Marc:And then Judd just, he bails.
Marc:He says, my assistant is calling you to help.
Marc:And I said, I feel like a real jamoke calling me.
Marc:Oh boy, okay, thanks.
Marc:I can just wait to see if Nick gets back too.
Marc:So ridiculous, thanks.
Marc:And then I said, I have a lot of good people working on this now.
Marc:And he said, it takes a village.
Marc:So now Judd's assistant's involved.
Marc:Hi, Mark, this is Cassidy, Judd's assistant.
Marc:Let me know if you need any help getting Craig's reservation tonight.
Marc:The assistant network is strong at getting reservations.
Marc:And I said, cool, thanks.
Marc:Sure, I put my name on some kind of waiting list there.
Marc:I also texted Nick because Jeff Ross gave me his number.
Marc:I think he's the maitre d'.
Marc:I'm just trying to get a table for two at seven.
Marc:Feels like if you call too, I will have put all the power of the comedy industry in Hollywood behind this request.
Marc:I imagine I can just wait to hear back from Nick, or maybe you can just seal the deal with your magic.
Marc:And she said, just called.
Marc:You're allegedly now at the top of the waiting list.
Marc:I'll keep working on it if you don't get a call soon.
Marc:And I said, ha ha, sweet, thanks.
Marc:So Nick gets back to me at some point.
Marc:He said, I'll see what I can do, sir.
Marc:I said, thanks, pal.
Marc:I have a lot of great people working on this.
Marc:Hope we can make it happen.
Marc:Sorry to be a nuisance.
Marc:And he said, come on in at 645 to 7.
Marc:We got you, sir.
Marc:I'm in.
Marc:i mean that's what it takes like i i just uh i'm embarrassed i'm embarrassed by the whole situation but you know now now i have nick's number and you know and again i get there and like i've met craig many times and he sat at the table we talked a bit it was so interesting because i'm sitting there we're eating at cioppino she had some pasta i had some meatballs it was beautiful
Marc:The meal was beautiful.
Marc:I saw there were some people there of celebrity status.
Marc:That's not why I wanted to go.
Marc:I wanted to go because I wanted to feel part of my community.
Marc:So I guess it is why I wanted to go.
Marc:I guess it is.
Marc:But it was weird because every time I go there, for some reason, I think of Saget.
Marc:Because I eat there with Judd, and I eat there with Jeff Ross, and I ate there with Saget once.
Marc:And I was like, I miss Bob Saget out of nowhere.
Marc:And then after we ate, Craig said that Kelly Saget was there, his wife.
Marc:And I was like, oh.
Marc:And we walked out back and I said hi to her, and it was kind of sweet.
Marc:Look, it's a neighborhood place, and the neighborhood is show business.
Marc:And it was nice to go out to eat, but it took me a lot of support and a lot of help to feel like I was able to just go eat there
Marc:But I feel like maybe I can eat there a little easier this time.
Marc:I might not have to drag Judd Apatow or Jeff Ross into the situation and ask them to do my bidding to give me a table at a restaurant.
Marc:Fucking ridiculous.
Marc:Ridiculous.
Marc:But that all happened.
Marc:So I did that.
Marc:I had a great show at Largo.
Marc:It was just a complete riff fest.
Marc:Kind of weird, kind of dark, impulsive.
Marc:Car came at 530, which I was pushing it.
Marc:710 flight.
Marc:And for some reason, I miss, you know, like I got someone watching the house, but I miss the cats.
Marc:It's weird, but I do.
Marc:You know, because, you know, Charlie's only going to be young once, right?
Marc:He's so fucking crazy, that cat.
Marc:Charlie Beans Roscoe, the new kitten.
Marc:It's fucking nuts.
Marc:Like a real monster.
Marc:It's weird about kittens.
Marc:Like that's primetime cat experience.
Marc:That's what you want, man.
Marc:You want a kitten.
Marc:It's fun.
Marc:It's insane.
Marc:But, you know, it's double-edged, double-edged.
Marc:Because when you got a kitten, no matter how cute, you know, you're going to be saying this a lot.
Marc:Ow, fuck.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:And then like two minutes later, you'd be like, God damn it.
Marc:Ow.
Marc:Fuck Charlie.
Marc:But that's fun.
Marc:That's the fun part.
Marc:That's the fun part about kittening.
Marc:You never know how they're going to turn out.
Marc:Enjoy that kitten.
Marc:I guess it's the same with humans, but you know, it's just a, yeah.
Marc:Charlie's good.
Marc:Sammy's good.
Marc:They're all good, but Charlie, this is a crazy kitten.
Marc:And the other two don't even know what the fuck to do with them.
Guest:Ow.
Marc:Anyway,
Marc:It's ending, folks.
Marc:It's all fucking over.
Marc:It's coming down hard.
Marc:You know what I'm talking about.
Marc:Get ready for it.
Marc:Get ready for all of it.
Marc:None of it good.
Marc:Did I do all the ads?
Marc:Is it time to talk to Chris Redd?
Marc:Is it time?
Marc:So, again, his special, HBO, Chris Redd, Why Am I Like This?, now streaming on HBO Max.
Marc:And again, this was recorded prior to the incident last week where he got assaulted outside the Comedy Cellar in New York.
Marc:So there will be no chatting about dadding.
Marc:Dig it?
Marc:All right, this is me and Chris Redd.
Marc:I got a guy over there.
Marc:That's how I'm hooked up, man.
Marc:I got a guy.
Marc:My boy got a meat guy.
Marc:I got a meat guy.
Marc:I do have a meat guy.
Marc:You got to have a guy for things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to have a guy for a little bit of everything, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And as you get older, you got to collect those guys.
Marc:I tend to do a lot of things myself, but you get a little money and then you start like, why are you doing that?
Guest:Yeah, bro.
Guest:That transition from making enough money to delegate.
Guest:To having a guy?
Guest:Yeah, to having a guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because I was like, when do you start having a guy clean your house?
Guest:Like, when you start having cleaners.
Guest:It's weird, right?
Guest:Yeah, and it was just like, I was on the road so much and working so much.
Guest:I was just never home.
Guest:I was only home in filth.
Guest:And I'm like, yo, I think now's the time I get the guy.
Marc:You're like, hey, this place looks the same as I left it.
Marc:And that food's still out.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I bought all these groceries and they're all terrible.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, I don't.
Marc:It's a weird adjustment to make when you go through a life where you manage your own shit.
Marc:And then and then one day you realize, like, well, what do other people do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also, what am I saving my money for?
Marc:Because I don't spend money.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Oh, I spend money, man.
Guest:I spend money, man.
Guest:I'm now in the place of my life where I'm starting to be responsible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was just broke for so long that when I started making money, I had to relive all the young...
Guest:money dreams i had oh really yeah i was standing on couches yeah and clubs yeah all the shit but like i was too i was older though so i was like 33 yeah so it was like yeah it was cool but it doesn't feel the same i'm not in my 20s and i don't know half these people and i and i got too many bottles right i can't drink all this damn liquor the fuck am i doing yeah
Marc:it's kind of a sad moment it's a very sad realization i'm sitting on the couch like yeah and i'm like oh man whose couch is this you see you know i'm an adult i'm thinking about adult shit this couch might cost money i just said dog shit before i came in here i know i've had those moments where it's sort of like i'm gonna go do it i'm gonna spend the big money and it's and you're just sitting there disappointed yeah you're just disappointed as hell like hey man how come this doesn't feel better
Guest:My homie Sam J, she said, you know what?
Guest:It got to a point where you just have to come to terms with some dreams you just missed out on, my nigga.
Marc:You just missed it.
Marc:Or maybe they're just not like, you know, they don't feel as good as you think they are.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like you think that's the answer, you think that's the way to live, and then you get there and you're like, nah, it's just not me.
Guest:Bro, nothing taught me how superficial I was as a kid as trying to do those things as an adult and being like, what the fuck were you fighting for?
Marc:I know.
Marc:When you talk about that in your special, it's kind of interesting.
Marc:Like, there's a couple of interesting sort of the idea of dreams.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You know, having dreams.
Marc:And, you know, having kid dreams is one thing.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But, like, you know, in the special you talk about basketball.
Marc:But then as you get older, your dreams shift.
Marc:But neither one of them are that practical or that...
Guest:They're all like hard to reach.
Guest:Where'd you grow up?
Guest:I was born in St.
Guest:Louis and we kind of spent like half our time in St.
Guest:Louis, half our time in Mississippi.
Guest:And then I moved to Chicago when I was seven.
Guest:And then we moved to the suburbs of Chicago, Naperville and Aurora.
Guest:So you have family in St.
Guest:Louis and Mississippi?
Guest:St.
Guest:Louis, Chicago, Mississippi, L.A.
Guest:We have over like 300 people in my family.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because we like to fuck.
Guest:A lot of people.
Guest:There's like, who's got all the brothers and sisters in your parents?
Guest:My brother and my mom has 14 siblings.
Guest:What?
Guest:What?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:My grandma had 15 kids, bro.
Guest:And she was having one more kid, and she had my aunties, the triplets.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah, crazy.
Guest:Could you imagine going in a store for one thing and getting three of the motherfuckers?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:So that's a lot of cousins.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, a lot of cousins, a lot of people just around, and I love it.
Guest:So I'm used to growing up with chaos.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But most of the childhood was in Chicago?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, most of the childhood was in Chicago, and we kept our roots in Mississippi, so we would go there all of the time.
Marc:But, like, I'm trying to figure out when I first started seeing you around.
Marc:Because it wasn't stand-up, was it, initially?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I remember you were stand-up, but did you start in stand-up?
Guest:Yeah, I started in stand-up and improv.
Guest:And in Chicago, around the time where that was a sin to do both.
Yeah.
Guest:So my attitude is... I saw the face.
Marc:Are you a real stand-up comedian?
Marc:Because I heard you like to do organic openings.
Marc:Like I didn't really see you around the stand-up clubs.
Guest:I remember seeing you whoosh as a tree.
Guest:But I think we first saw each other Laugh Factory.
Guest:And Kevin Nealon used to do that show where he would have people come up and talk shit or do a set and then sit there and talk shit for a little while.
Marc:Right, I kind of remember that.
Marc:Yeah, everybody had these big ideas.
Marc:And we were both on it.
Guest:Yeah, I think I did one show with you.
Guest:I mean, I did a couple shows with you, but I think we really crossed paths.
Guest:It was either at that show or it was at Comedy Store.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, yeah, it was one of those things where it's like, you know, Elvis and Chris Redd's everywhere.
Marc:They talk about Chris Redd.
Guest:That's what I like to do.
Guest:Not that I have it, but I like to look at my hustle like herpes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I like to go to a city and spread facts.
Marc:Was there another guy that had Redd in his name?
Guest:Nah, nigga.
Yeah.
Guest:He gone, Mark.
Guest:Not anymore.
Guest:Not anymore, man.
Guest:Took care of that guy.
Marc:I thought there was another Red.
Marc:Something Red.
Guest:Oh, Jasper Red.
Marc:Jasper Red.
Marc:What happened to that guy?
Guest:Jasper's funny.
Marc:Oh, he is funny.
Marc:He's a funny dude.
Marc:I haven't seen him in a while.
Marc:I haven't seen him in a while.
Marc:Sorry, Jasper.
Guest:I've been waiting and running to Jasper, though, man.
Guest:All I know is Jasper Red and Michael Red.
Guest:He used to play for the Bucks.
Marc:Oh, no, I don't know that guy.
Marc:So how many siblings do you have?
Guest:I have my younger brother and my older sister.
Marc:Three of you.
Guest:But then I was kicked out when I was younger, so I used to live with my friends.
Guest:So I just kind of considered them brothers too.
Marc:So you're in the suburbs of Chicago.
Marc:Especially when you talk about that world, the hood and the suburbs.
Marc:That's funny.
Marc:But I mean, because I watched the whole thing.
Marc:I'm only bringing it up because I watched it.
Marc:Man, I love you, man.
Marc:If I didn't watch it, I wouldn't bring it.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:I would just be like, so tell me about the special.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:So what's the special about?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:What is it like?
Marc:What's that coming out?
Marc:I hear it's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But why'd you get kicked out of your house?
Guest:Well, because I went to a really racist school.
Guest:It was a kind of racist area.
Marc:Was it called that?
Guest:Yeah, it's called Racist School.
Guest:It was very upfront, so it was really my fault I was there.
Guest:It was like a what you wearing situation.
Marc:This is in the suburbs of Chicago?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And at the time, I wasn't communicating that well with my parents, because they were very much like, we're not friends, I'm your parent, we don't talk.
Marc:How old are you at this time?
Guest:I'm like, I mean, it's like 13.
Guest:13 on.
Guest:And so I was kind of like a quiet kid until I got to middle school and high school.
Guest:And then I started to just kind of have beef with kids.
Guest:And they would be calling me out my name.
Guest:And I had like...
Guest:White kids?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I had ADHD and my anxiety.
Guest:I had an anger issue because I didn't understand any of that stuff.
Guest:So I was a very hyperactive kid.
Guest:So I went to my parents like, yo, I'm having trouble with this racist shit at school.
Guest:And I thought they would film me because they were from Mississippi.
Marc:They were your parents.
Guest:Yeah, and my parents.
Marc:They knew the history of your people.
Guest:Yeah, they were there.
Guest:But to my parents,
Guest:They were like, yo, we've been through so much shit in Mississippi, your racism doesn't even sound like a real issue to them.
Guest:And they didn't mean it that way, but that's definitely how it came off.
Guest:And I was so hurt by that that I just kind of closed off, said, well, fuck it, if y'all gonna treat me like I'm a bad guy,
Guest:kid I'm gonna just be a bad kid then and so then I started fighting back yeah I made a decision like fighting back I was like I'm gonna go I'm gonna skip school go hang out in the hood with kids I really want to be around kids that look like me so that began my career of trying to just like
Guest:living these dual lives, just being in the burbs and then going out, trying to be in the hood at the same time.
Marc:Do you remember before you turned, were you just a good kid?
Marc:You just didn't say much or what?
Marc:Was it like a dramatic sort of change?
Guest:I really had to force myself out of kick.
Guest:I was extremely introverted.
Guest:I had a stutter.
Guest:You had a stutter?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:So I had to like- Like a bad one?
Guest:Oh man, it was bad.
Guest:And how I got over it was rapping in front of people.
Marc:Do you think the stutter was like a psychological thing or like a fear thing?
Guest:Yeah, it was a fear because I had a fear of speaking in front of people.
Guest:And because I took how I was raised, like you don't speak out of terms.
Guest:I took that so literally that I was just a super quiet kid for a while.
Guest:And then it got to the point where it was like, man, if I keep doing this, I'm going to get my ass whooped every day.
Guest:With the stuttering?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I fixed that, you know what I mean, as much as I could.
Marc:So how was the plan?
Marc:Was it your idea to just start rapping over the stutter?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was like, I'm going to rap.
Guest:Rapping is what I wanted to do.
Marc:How old were you then?
Marc:Like 12?
Marc:10 was when I started.
Guest:I was like, I bought my first rap.
Guest:Rakim CD.
Guest:I didn't know anything about Rakim at the time.
Guest:My big cousin was like, Rakim's the best rapper alive.
Guest:I'm like, well, that's what I wanna be.
Guest:And so that's when I bought my first rap record, listened to it, and I was writing my own little raps.
Guest:And we would go to school and battle.
Guest:But I had to stutter, so I had to read the raps.
Guest:Wow, they were the worst battles of all fucking time.
Guest:Your nose looks like a... It took forever, bro.
Guest:It took so long.
Marc:Were the other kids laughing at you?
Guest:Yeah, kind of.
Guest:Then I thought so, because I was definitely doing it every day, so I was getting validation from it.
Marc:It's weird when you're around somebody with a stutter, because we're all relatively aware of people when they have a problem.
Marc:You gotta be a pretty young kid to bust on a guy with a stutter.
Marc:By 10 or 11, you would think they'd be a little nicer.
Marc:But even just the other day, I was in a studio with a guy.
Marc:What context was that?
Marc:Where I was, you know, I was asking what I should do.
Marc:And then he started and he had that stutter where it was stopping.
Marc:And there's just a moment where the entire time zone changes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you're like, okay, we'll just wait it out.
Marc:Don't be rude.
Guest:And that's what it was.
Guest:And it was such a, looking back, it was such a rude thing to make people watch that battle.
Guest:Because it took all lunch period.
Guest:And then on top of that, like sometimes it didn't end.
Guest:We would just be like trying to read a line and you hear the bell and all the kids like, oh, fuck.
Guest:One of my cousins started going to school with me and he got mad one day because he's like, I ain't even eat my pizza.
Guest:Like, well, I ain't go get the pizza and come back.
Yeah.
Guest:But I gained a lot of confidence, though, because I started reading up more about just stuttering in general.
Guest:It's like by slowing your mind down, let your thoughts catch up.
Guest:So I was like, well, if I talk faster and I rap faster, maybe I can catch up with how fast my thoughts are going.
Guest:And so that's how I really learned to freestyle.
Guest:I just started like relaxing and trusting myself.
Marc:So you read that when you were a kid and because you were curious?
Guest:Researching is, I've been doing that forever, dude.
Guest:I've been like, I used to be online and I've been an insomniac since forever.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Marc:You're a high strung kid.
Marc:I was.
Guest:You would have thought I had a mortgage.
Guest:You were the middle kid?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But my sister is like 13 years older.
Guest:So I have like middle kid syndrome and oldest.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:I was my mom's first, but I wasn't my dad's first.
Guest:I was my dad's second.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But so you applied this idea, you came up with this concept around curing your stuttering.
Marc:Like if you wrap faster, then it would keep up with your mind?
Guest:Yeah, we were in science class and I asked my teacher, how do I work on my stutter?
Guest:And she said, well, the basis of your stutter is because your mouth is not moving as fast as your thoughts are.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:like one of those two like yeah and so i was like oh and so that's what i just assumed hey if i if i go faster if i go faster i think i'll be i your parents weren't helping no not at all they didn't send you a doctor no no we didn't have like full conversations then so and also i was really people i'm comfortable with it didn't it didn't like come out like that oh really no not not
Guest:like well it did but it's like wasn't as drastic it was it was very much it was very much like um nerves and like anxiety it was like if i was nervous and any which was like anywhere that i wasn't comfortable which was a lot of places for a long time yeah uh i was yeah started hit me bro like speaking in front of people was the worst fear but i was also like cracking jokes on the low so
Guest:So there was like I've always been there's been like a little competing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's it's a weird thing about being like a funny person is it all comes out of discomfort.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So eventually you got to make fun of yourself or make fun of somebody else.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's a fine line between self-deprecation and fuck that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The line of bullying is always right there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Right there.
Marc:Right there.
Marc:Like, I'm not going to take the hit.
Marc:You're going to take the hit.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I got so good at roasting kids in school.
Marc:That's good when you have that, like dozens of rap battles or whatever, when there's a context that's okay to do it, 100%.
Guest:Because then it's like, oh, now it's like being a basketball player.
Guest:Now I'm just showing my skill set.
Guest:But I remember running into a kid like...
Guest:later on like years later after we got out of high school and found out i was his bully and we hung out a lot yeah and i would just make fun of him all the time but like we were all making fun of each other right i thought we were all doing oh and you fucked him up yeah so he had this bro he had this whole like rom-com get back at the bully moment like we were i was i was high as hell when was this how many years oh man this was at least this was uh
Guest:at least eight years from high school.
Guest:So the kid's doing well.
Guest:I haven't gotten any big gig yet.
Guest:I'm doing well in the comedy community, but no one in the real life knows anything about that shit.
Guest:So to him, I look like a bum.
Guest:I'm walking in here with my friends just trying to have a night.
Guest:I'm hot.
Guest:I see him like, oh, what's good, man?
He's like,
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:Chris Redd.
Guest:Watch this shit.
Guest:Bet you can't do this.
Guest:And then he just kisses.
Guest:He mouth kisses like three chicks just randomly.
Guest:I'm like, what is happening?
Guest:And I can't think of one roast.
Guest:I can't think of one comeback.
Guest:He's just like, it's like somebody in the universe is just like, this is his moment.
Guest:You're going to pay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's like, what now?
Guest:I bet you broke.
Guest:He said, I make $100,000 every four months.
Guest:What do you do?
Guest:I bet you don't have any money in your pocket.
Guest:Then he just mouth kissed another chick.
Guest:I'm like, does he know these women?
Right, right, right there.
Guest:they don't seem to be resisting no it seems choreographed yeah it was all planned here he comes yeah i just saw i saw one girl by the bar just waiting to walk and get mouth kissed but it was like the coldest like uh redemption moment for him that i didn't even know he he needed i was like man i guess i'm just that was my karma bro i just had to eat that yeah yeah it's like you had it coming
Guest:I had it coming, man.
Guest:I was like, I guess I was like, what did I do to this kid to make him do this?
Marc:Isn't that weird?
Marc:Because I mean, that's the interesting point is that you think everyone's on the same page.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then if you really think about it, you're like, that guy never said anything.
Guest:That's what it was.
Guest:It ended up being like, oh, everybody was talking shit except him.
Guest:So he just felt like the punching bag.
Guest:Now, you friends with that guy still?
Guest:We haven't talked since then, but Mike, I hope you're doing well.
Guest:Yeah, but you got closure.
Guest:He got closure.
Guest:You got closure.
Guest:You're doing well.
Guest:Hope you didn't get nothing from all them random mouths kissed that night.
Marc:So once you start the rapping thing and you get confidence, now, was that the thing you wanted to do?
Guest:Yeah, that was the thing I wanted to do the most.
Guest:Were you making CDs and shit?
Guest:I was making, man, I was using every extra dollar.
Guest:I had so many fucking names, bro.
Guest:My last name was Chief.
Guest:That was a good name.
Guest:Chief?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's simple.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's to the point, you know, double meanings.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But before that, I was like, I wanted to have a mysterious vibe.
Guest:So I went with John Doe.
Guest:But John Doe like John Money.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:But also John Doe like you don't know me.
Marc:So you had to have double meaning.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I was a real big double meaning kid.
Marc:But there is a John Doe rock guy.
Guest:Yeah, there was a John Doe rock guy, but he was doing rock.
Marc:And he's old.
Guest:I'm rap.
Marc:No one knows that guy in your world.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And no one knew me as John Doe, so I had to change it.
Guest:I was like, if I keep being John Doe, no one's going to know.
Guest:It's too deep for everybody.
Guest:It was way above their head.
Guest:So I changed it to Johnny Dollar, which was not great.
Guest:No, it's kind of jokey.
Guest:It's very jokey.
Yeah.
Guest:and then i got into greek mythology and i was like you know there's a lot of cool names in that oh yeah sure so i so i picked uh no i picked callisto which sounded cool wow but it is a goddess yeah so i was like that doesn't match up that much yeah you're just hoping no one looks it up yeah you're right like callisto don't look it up and you you recorded under all these names
Guest:I recorded under most of them.
Guest:Were you selling your CDs?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:Outside of clubs?
Guest:I was selling them on the streets.
Guest:I was selling them at school.
Marc:I made some decent little cash.
Marc:I remember when I realized that that was a thing, where guys would just come up to you.
Marc:And some of it's good, because they're trying to get a release, but they don't have a release, but they're still doing the work.
Marc:I always used to buy those CDs.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Man, well, I don't think I ever bought one on purpose because I was always kind of tricked into it.
Marc:Well, right.
Marc:It was that fine line between it's sort of like, you want it?
Marc:It's sort of like, all right, just how much?
Marc:Right.
Guest:All right, man.
Guest:Yeah, whatever you need, buddy.
Guest:I'll take it.
Guest:He's like, hey, yo, yo, let me sign this for you, player.
Guest:Let me sign this for you.
Guest:I'm like, I don't own that.
Guest:Who are you?
Marc:So you were doing that?
Guest:yeah swinging cds like slinging cds i didn't want to go to uh i didn't want to go to college i wanted to kind of rap and follow this is all through high school this is all through high school the rap thing uh yep like it's like like um half of middle school like i wasn't i wasn't like confident enough to do a bunch of rapping in middle school but i was like finding myself dance well i love to dance so like that was my thing i found in really middle school yeah and then you're a dancer
Guest:I love dancing.
Guest:At one point I thought I wanted to be a dancer.
Marc:It's so funny you're really riding this line between the whole sort of dichotomy of what you saw yourself as and what you wanted to be, like gangster with your cousin.
Marc:You just really wanted to dance, didn't you?
Guest:That's where I wanted to dance.
Guest:Shout out to my dog, Duke Deuce.
Guest:He's a dancing gangster rapper right now, and I love him.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He kills it.
Guest:He kills it.
Guest:I'll send you some videos.
Guest:He kills it.
Guest:But yeah, man, I definitely wanted to dance.
Guest:I thought it was like, I thought gangsters could do all of that.
Guest:I wanted to be a versatile gangster.
Marc:I wanted to dance.
Marc:It depends.
Marc:I think there's a ceiling to the type of dance.
Guest:100%.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if you can be a gangster and strip.
Marc:Or do musicals.
Marc:But maybe, no, there's some musicals.
Marc:A gangster musical?
Marc:They have, sure.
Marc:So during this time, these two worlds, this cousin you're talking about, he's a real guy.
Guest:Yes, he's a real guy.
Guest:He's a representative of two people in my life.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:There's a story of my... Some of it is my cousin Keith.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And a lot of it is my friend Jeremy that I grew up with.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And they're collectively this guy... And they're collectively Trey.
Marc:Okay, Trey.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Trey represents like a few... He represents them and our stories are pretty much those two dudes.
Guest:More Jeremy than anybody.
Marc:But like...
Marc:uh because you like you're like this nice kid who like you know is nervous and now in looking back you're finding that you have issues that you're dealing with but but but you you get the rap thing to solve your your your stuttering and awkwardness problem and now you want to go full in full in to and i cured my fear i'm not really afraid of much of now yeah it was like because i was but i was terrified then trying that like i wasn't because i was just
Guest:All the characteristics about being an introvert weren't helping me with what I needed.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:So I was like, I gotta be different.
Guest:I gotta change this.
Guest:I gotta figure this shit out.
Marc:So what really happened in terms of you going into the hood?
Guest:The first couple times I got clowned crazy.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:So the first time I went to the, by myself, I was with my homie Marcus.
Guest:Coming in from the suburbs.
Guest:And a homegirl, Ashley, yeah.
Guest:So we all went to school in the burbs and we all went to the city.
Guest:What was the plan?
Guest:My cousins.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:And yeah, just to hang around with the homies, the gangs that are around that we were affiliated with.
Guest:And so I had acted like I had been out to the West Side a bajillion times.
Guest:I had not.
Guest:This is my first time.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:Oh, I'm 15.
Guest:14 or 15 at this time.
Guest:14.
Guest:So I'm acting, but I got my act on, bro.
Guest:And this is my first major role.
Guest:Not SAG.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so we all kicking it.
Guest:People can see I'm nervous.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I didn't know at the time, though.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:I'm just feeling like I'm natural and shit.
Guest:So then this girl, Ashley, she's from out there.
Guest:So she's like, hey, why don't you go grab some cigarillos, Chris, from the gas station?
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, why not?
Guest:But to me, it was the biggest moment of my fucking life.
Guest:Because I'm like, I ain't never been here before.
Guest:So I'm like trying to act natural, right?
Guest:But I don't look natural.
Guest:So I'm just like, I walk, sway, move the hands a little bit.
Guest:Too much, too much, you know?
Guest:And then she said hi to her cousin, right?
Guest:Who was sitting in his car right by the gas station.
Guest:So before I walk in the door, dude's like, hey.
Guest:He's like, hey man, come here, you want some weed?
Guest:I'm like, oh yeah.
Guest:My goofy ass is like, oh, that's her cousin.
Guest:They're cool people.
Guest:He's like, get in.
Guest:So I get in the car like a clown and I close the door and there's a dude in the backseat.
Guest:dude's in the front seat he's like he's like uh he's like oh yeah you want some weed huh and then dude came around and like put his arm around my neck right and i'm like what the fuck i threw his arm off i'm like what the fuck is that shit man he's like don't be getting in no car with no random motherfucker what's wrong with you nigga it's the hood and i'm like that's your cousin and she's like who gives i know him nigga you don't yeah
Guest:And it was my first introduction to the hood for real.
Guest:And they gave me shit.
Guest:We went to this spot called The Circle.
Guest:This was where everybody kicked it.
Guest:And so we went to The Circle and I just got clowned that whole day.
Guest:But it was kind of like after that, it was good.
Guest:I had family there.
Guest:So it wasn't like I felt like I wasn't at home.
Guest:But it was definitely my hazing for sure.
Marc:But was there a point where you wanted to sell drugs and stuff?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I wanted to do all of that shit.
Guest:So I was like, I was selling weed for a lot of years.
Guest:I just wasn't very good at it.
Guest:But in the burbs?
Guest:All over.
Guest:Yeah, all over.
Guest:But yeah, in the burbs.
Guest:In the burbs, I was doing some other stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because my cousins and them used to like to, you know, run up in places, right?
Marc:Yeah, oh yeah.
Guest:And so, I'm not going to say your names.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:We don't need to get anyone in trouble.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So the best places to do that were the burbs.
Guest:So that was my contribution to the gang was like, yo, I'll find spots where you can hit.
Marc:You're the location scout.
Guest:I'm the location scout for the gang.
Guest:And I'm like, yo, yo, I got houses.
Guest:I set up the lick.
Guest:I watch the schedule.
Guest:I know when they go in and run out.
Guest:And I would set up shit all the time.
Guest:And so the Burbers is where we would go to make money.
Guest:We used to, before they had like, damn, this is aging myself.
Guest:But before they had like those...
Guest:those alarms in stores sure you could just walk out with whatever the fuck you want before the the things they click on there yeah the snap on things yeah yeah so i would go i would go buy liquor i was in high school at the time yeah go buy liquor and then go to the school go to part high school parties sell that shit for like 300 i would sell bottles of hypnotic for 300 like really so that was the kind of shit we would do yeah yeah
Guest:Because we knew they had money, you know what I'm saying?
Guest:So we're like, hey, we're going to take advantage.
Marc:Was there ever a point where, you know, what makes you turn around at a certain point?
Marc:Because I have to assume that you get to like anybody who survives, you know, taking chances like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like you get to a point where you're like, yes, I'm done.
Guest:Yeah, man, it was when my homie Worm died.
Guest:His name was Worm.
Marc:That's a good name.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's his real name?
Guest:No, but... That's what he called.
Guest:He didn't count it like a worm.
Guest:He was a good kid, man.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:Just like to smoke and play video games.
Guest:And my homie, Jeremy, had robbed some guys that were...
Guest:on his block.
Guest:He didn't know that there were like gangsters from the city who just kind of moved out to the burbs because they had a little money.
Guest:So that next day they found out he did it and they came and shot his house up and Worm was the only one that died.
Guest:He had nothing to do with it.
Guest:Nothing to do with it.
Guest:We had been locked up a little bit here and there and stuff like that but nothing crazy.
Guest:I kind of had gotten away with it so at this point my ego was kind of there but I was seeing people like
Marc:go down and there was a there was a next level of this shit i had i was like if i'm gonna do this i have to take it up a notch and that's where all the real fucking danger is i was kind of like dipping my toe in and out right yeah it's a weird thing to know that because i i knew that with drugs you know by doing drugs yeah you're aware of it yeah because there's there's a place where you you need you're gonna cross over and you're not gonna have a conscience anymore
Guest:Right, that's it.
Marc:And that you're playing by a different set of rules, and it's a dangerous set of rules, and exponentially, the possibilities of you dying increases.
Guest:Truly, that's exactly what it is.
Guest:It becomes like the risk isn't worth the reward of it all, and on top of that,
Guest:I always had these check-ins with myself like, dog, are you really good at this?
Guest:And I've done that with not just that, but like anything I've ever, I'm good at rapping.
Guest:What happened is I wasn't being, I didn't know who I was fully.
Guest:On that, so I wasn't being as authentic as I could.
Guest:I also was trying to help so many different people that I was never focusing on finishing a thing fully.
Guest:So I would always have like these drafts of songs that were good.
Guest:they needed to work and the technique and I just wasn't drilling it the way I did.
Guest:I corrected that behavior with comedy.
Guest:Not only I was supposed to be doing this for sure, but also that method made me so much better and I applied it back to the music and then the comedy music took off.
Guest:And I was like, oh.
Guest:Oh, I had to work harder.
Marc:But there was that point where, like, you know, that next level after Worm died.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You just, you got scared.
Guest:Well, me and my cousin were like, dude, do we want to end up like this?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:This kid didn't even get to see 18.
Marc:He didn't do nothing.
Guest:And he didn't do a thing.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:It was just like me and my boy was like, yo, we're going to keep.
Guest:you know we kept selling weed and shit yeah yeah rapping but like as far as all the other shit bro we gotta get you know we gotta start figuring out how to like get out of this shit right was it hard
Guest:No, I mean, not, I mean, no.
Marc:Well, you lived far away.
Guest:I did.
Guest:And then, and then someone had, I had did, I had did something and then somebody had snitched on me.
Guest:And so I had moved, I had moved away to Milwaukee to live with my sister for like a year.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then by the time I came back, I was just out of sync with everybody.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:So I used that to like.
Guest:What'd you do in Milwaukee?
Guest:sold some drugs off my porch.
Guest:Sold weed, weed, weed, just weed.
Guest:Sold weed off my porch and kicked with my sister, got to know her a little bit better and just kind of lay low.
Guest:And like... How old were you?
Guest:Figure out what I was gonna do.
Guest:I was like 20-ish, maybe 19.
Guest:I was like out of high school, just out of high school.
Marc:So you're doing time in the self-imposed protection program.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you're thinking about your life.
Guest:I'm thinking about where am I going to take this?
Guest:What am I actually going to do?
Guest:And I was still in the rap phase of my life then.
Guest:So I was like, man, we're just going to rap.
Guest:Maybe start a label.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:And just put everything I got into this.
Guest:And I was doing that already, but without all the bullshit.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And we had some gigs at some colleges, and there were some little things throughout.
Guest:You know how it is when you're building up and there's little pieces of validation.
Marc:Yeah, a little bit of interest.
Marc:Some guy comes up to you and goes, you guys are good.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Everybody ain't going wild, but there's four people that are like, you're the best thing I've ever heard.
Guest:And I'm like, one day, everyone will say what you said.
Guest:No, just that guy.
Guest:No, just that guy, actually.
Guest:And he'll go to every show.
Guest:Oh man, he'll just be swaying, whether the beat's on or not.
Guest:That guy.
Guest:That guy.
Guest:Yeah, but it wasn't until like, it was like 22 or 23 where I had literally, from the point I could work, had spent every dollar trying to make rap work.
Marc:and it was it just got to the point where i'm like man am i gonna just keep being broke what did you find did you have a moment with that too because like i don't know man it's it's weird when you you realize at some point you're a talented person and you know that because you're doing right but there there is that moment where you're like i don't think i'm good enough at this
Guest:Yeah, it was like, I don't think the way I feel like I'm gonna get on or become who I'm supposed to be, I don't think the vision I had here is the vision that's playing out.
Guest:And I was like, if I keep going to this studio, laying these tracks, doing the same thing in the same way, I think at 30 I'll still be here doing this in this way.
Guest:And I just couldn't risk that.
Marc:It's a weird moment where you realize this could never go anywhere and I might not know it.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:Until it's too fucking late.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:You can't do nothing.
Guest:It's like, what more proof do you need than 22 years of it not working?
Guest:It's like, you're okay.
Guest:You're good.
Guest:I mean, truly, I was like, I could wrap my ass off.
Guest:Still can't.
Guest:But it just wasn't clicking.
Guest:So I was like, man, I need to switch it.
Marc:How's the dancing going at that time?
Guest:so so when i stopped rapping yeah rapping was i was tunnel vision with rap yeah these other skill sets were just i wanted to be the rapper i could do everything right so after i stopped rapping yeah i i looked inward i was like okay what other things am i good at yeah that could be my next dream i chase yeah fuck going to school right i chase dreams yeah that's what i do yeah i'm a dreamer i'm an active dreamer yeah and so i was like i want to dance yeah
Guest:So I went to an audition for one of R. Kelly's videos, and I got the audition, did well, got the gig,
Guest:And then I was going, well, I got the callback.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I was going to the callback.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Before it even started, these motherfuckers were like, they were just catty and like talking shit to each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And dancer.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I was just leaving gangsters and rappers and shit.
Guest:And now I'm over here with these catty ass motherfuckers.
Guest:And they're like, bitch, you can't eat Perrier.
Guest:I'm like, huh.
Yeah.
Guest:yeah nah I'm good and I didn't even do the callback I walked dead out that place and I was like I'm not no I don't love it this much cause I'm like none of that shit would have turned me off if I really wanted to do it but after I left the dream of my life and I'm like
Guest:I know this don't feel right.
Marc:It's a moment.
Marc:There's a moment where I can't remember.
Marc:Someone shared it.
Marc:I went on an audition.
Marc:I barely had an agent, but they sent me on an audition for a Doritos commercial.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:But all I know is I've been told that I walk into a room, and there's a bunch of comics in that room waiting to do this, and I'm just like, fuck this.
Marc:I'm not doing this.
Marc:I'm not doing this.
Marc:Not for fucking potato chips.
Marc:You know?
Marc:you gotta know yourself man well yeah because like what are you willing to you know how you how you don't want to sell out for nothing for nothing yeah and i i was worried about the time of like beating one of these motherfuckers asses and then getting in trouble for that shit like yeah i'm like i don't want turns out r kelly got in trouble for yeah he was good with trouble yeah i actually lucked out yeah um so then okay so dancing's over
Marc:Dancing is over.
Guest:And so right before comedy, I was completely lost, spiraling.
Marc:How old are you then?
Marc:24?
Marc:I'm still 22.
Marc:Okay, you're 22.
Marc:So you're on schedule.
Marc:So you're not going to be a criminal.
Marc:You're not going to be a rapper.
Marc:I'm not going to be a rapper.
Guest:Dancing's out, and now you're lost.
Guest:This is the most random thing.
Guest:I became a model manager, bro.
Guest:uh-huh so you just want to you just look for a hustle hustle yeah when you talk about we talk about those people with like 15 slashes on a business card that was me oh yeah do you have one of those cards oh what you still got oh man i wish i could you know i'm gonna try to look for one i'm going back home like it took after after this i'm gonna i will send you some yeah if i could i hope i can find some just have your picture on it yeah oh my god yeah dude what
Marc:With the silly writing, the cursive.
Guest:Yeah, I think the name of the company, Bravira, or some shit.
Marc:It was like beautiful.
Marc:A model manager.
Marc:So you're an on-the-level pimp.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Yeah, it's what it felt like.
Guest:But not at first, though.
Guest:At first, it was just I was at this club that I had been trying to get into for a long time with a couple of friends, and they just happened to be pretty as hell.
Guest:And second...
Guest:R. Kelly visit, his people were there.
Guest:And they were scouting for one of his artist's videos.
Guest:And so they wanted to meet with my friend, Cap.
Guest:What's up, Cap?
Guest:And Cap was like, hey, could you come and be and pretend you're my manager?
Guest:Because I don't feel safe with these guys.
Guest:And I just want to make sure everything's on the up and up.
Guest:So I was like, I don't know how to be a manager.
Guest:So I Googled some shit real quick.
Guest:10%.
Guest:And then I went over there and I just played the position.
Guest:And she got the gig.
Guest:I drove her to the gig.
Guest:Just to make sure everything's cool.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:We got the check.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got my 10%.
Guest:That next week I had four more girls that I'm like submitting for shit and driving to places.
Guest:And now I'm just like, now I'm just managing these mops.
Guest:Where are you at?
Guest:I had just moved back.
Guest:To Chicago?
Marc:To Aurora.
Guest:Okay, okay.
Guest:Yeah, Chicago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And to Aurora, because I was rekindling things with my parents at the time.
Guest:Also, I was broke as fuck.
Guest:I needed help.
Marc:Some places sleep.
Marc:They let you in the house.
Guest:Hey, remember me, son?
Guest:Can we work through it?
Guest:And my mom's like, yes, we can work through it.
Guest:She had just lost her job.
Guest:So we were both in the right place for change.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, it was cool.
Guest:My mom's always been a good woman.
Guest:This one, you're 22.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was something that made her vulnerable in a way that I needed to see her.
Guest:And then I was the same way.
Guest:And so we were able to really get over our shit.
Marc:So that was that moment.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You didn't know what you were doing or who you were.
Marc:And she had time on her hands and was a little beat up herself.
Guest:Yeah, and so in that way we got super close in that time.
Guest:It took some work.
Guest:And I was managing these models.
Guest:I was actually making some money, some decent money.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, it was like decent money to me.
Guest:What did they do?
Marc:It was for videos or for showing up at parties and that kind of stuff?
Guest:Yeah, we did a few of those.
Guest:It would be videos.
Guest:There was a thing called Remix the Runway.
Guest:It was this event, this fashion music concert event.
Guest:So I would book for that.
Guest:I booked for that for three years.
Guest:And then there would just be different events that we would book them for.
Marc:On the level shit.
Guest:On the level, dog.
Marc:And they felt safe with you.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:Yeah, I was very like...
Guest:I didn't want to be the dude that was just being a sleazeball.
Guest:Creepy, yeah.
Guest:I was like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to take it serious.
Guest:Plus, a lot of the girls were my friends.
Guest:I had become friends.
Guest:I was spending so much time with them.
Guest:But then it got to a point where I was like, am I really going to just manage motherfuckers?
Guest:Because it got to that ceiling like we're talking about where I had to go to the next level with it.
Guest:I'm like, do I want to manage?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Build out the business.
Guest:Get more girls.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because there were starting to be these rumors of pimping and all this other stuff.
Guest:So I have to take it up a notch to either kill those rumors and just really, really go hard at this.
Guest:Or take one more shot at my own dreams real quick.
Marc:At that time, which was...
Guest:I had no idea.
Guest:I just knew I should try something else.
Marc:Because if you stay in those games, you're just going to be the guy with different business cards every couple years.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I'm selling hats one year.
Guest:I don't...
Guest:Cowboy, 59 pitches.
Guest:We got hats.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It's one of them things.
Guest:So it was really me playing video games high as hell with my homie Marcus I was rapping with that we were not rapping at this point.
Guest:We were just playing video games smoking weed.
Guest:And then I saw a commercial for Second City and I was like...
Guest:Huh Really Just on TV Just on TV Which I've never seen again Huh But it was just dead ass And I went I hadn't really heard of Second City at all Yeah At this point And so I went up to my pops Like yo you heard of Second City And he's like yeah He's like yeah I know Second City And he started naming people And I was like oh shit Maybe Maybe Maybe I'm funny Yeah Right Yeah And my pops was like I mean I don't know Let me try it
Guest:What's your dad do?
Guest:What does he do?
Guest:My dad, he did a lot of things, but he was a loan officer for churches in the inner city.
Guest:So he would help black churches get funds to keep their churches or to build out and expand and stuff like that.
Guest:But he had a few other jobs before that.
Guest:One was a repo man in Detroit.
Guest:So my boy been shot at a few times.
Guest:Actually, that was his last day of work.
Guest:He said he got shot at.
Guest:He's like,
Guest:Shit ain't worth this.
Marc:Find an easier environment.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's a good guy, though.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:My dad's cool as shit.
Guest:Always supportive.
Guest:Yeah, he was.
Guest:He was.
Guest:You know why?
Guest:He didn't agree all the time with things.
Guest:And he definitely he definitely like wanted to see me do well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And out of the two growing up, he was the more lenient one with dreams.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Because he was a baseball player.
Guest:Oh, so he had one.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So he chased dreams.
Guest:My mom did it by the book.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:She did it very, very well.
Guest:So she's like, don't tell me how to make it.
Guest:I did.
Guest:And he hurt his knee.
Guest:So he had a little more patience with my dreams.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Even if he didn't know how to support me vocally every time, he was still like, he was sliding me a little 20 because I didn't have no money sliding me a little 20.
Guest:Like, all right, man, go ahead and hug me.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So he would look out.
Guest:And I remember, oh, he paid for my first few classes at Second City so I could just see what it was.
Guest:And what was it like going over there?
Guest:Oh, man, I was coming straight, again, straight out of this world of just a very different world to this country.
Guest:what seemed like a corny ass world to me of just like a bunch of people, a bunch of grown people walking around a room filling the space.
Guest:Mostly white, right?
Guest:Yeah, mostly.
Guest:Yes, all white.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, and they were just, but it was something about it that I really loved.
Guest:It was like, it was just, I couldn't,
Guest:The class itself didn't sell me right away.
Guest:I went and saw an I.O.
Guest:show and I saw Tim Robinson and Sam Richardson and a few other folks that are like fire at this.
Guest:Sam and Tim.
Guest:Yeah, and I see them improvising.
Guest:And I see Tim improvises 12 different dudes.
Guest:And I'm like angry.
Guest:Like, this is not fucking off the top, bro.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Oh, you thought he was faking it?
Guest:Yeah, and then as I see another show, I'm like...
Guest:Oh, these niggas are this good.
Guest:Oh, this is fire.
Guest:It's like freestyling, but funny.
Guest:And so that's why I was super in love with improv because it fed my freestyle.
Marc:And those guys, Tim and Sam, they're out there, dude.
Guest:They'll do it.
Guest:This was before the world knew that they were that good.
Guest:But they were like,
Guest:They were at the top in Chicago of improv before I knew how to do it.
Guest:But then people were saying that you had to pick improv or stand up.
Guest:I was coming from rap.
Guest:I didn't give a fuck about the separation.
Guest:I'm doing it all.
Guest:I'm doing comedy.
Guest:So I did all of it.
Guest:I did sketch writing.
Marc:But you get into the classes and you go through how many years of that?
Guest:For the improv, I did every class you could take.
Guest:I put all my cash into that.
Marc:Yeah, but is there a tier?
Marc:Don't you become part of the crew?
Guest:How does that work?
Guest:Yeah, so it's like the introductory classes.
Guest:Then you have the conservatory, which is like the elevated you have to audition for.
Guest:And then they have these different companies, these bizcos and different companies that you can work and get a little money from.
Guest:And then they have the touring companies.
Guest:yeah doing show how far did you get what'd you do i did it all bro i got i got i did i toured i did um you toured with second city we were the first crew to go international so we went to london to perform and that had been my first time out the country yeah and and then i was doing i was doing stand-up on like along with it so you're doing both so you're doing like zanies and shit
Guest:No, but Burt was an asshole, and I hated Burt.
Guest:From Zaney's?
Guest:Zaney's downtown, so I never did Zaney's.
Guest:I never let me do Zaney's, but I did jokes and notes.
Guest:I did everything.
Marc:Did you ever do it when it was the theater, like the Lakeview?
Marc:Wasn't there a movie theater you used to book?
Marc:That guy Ritter used to book comedy there.
Marc:I remember I did it.
Marc:So who are you coming up with then in stand-up over there?
Marc:What's that crew of the Chicago guys?
Guest:you had drew michael oh yeah um like rail had just rail had just kind of went to la yeah hannibal had just left the scene yeah tj had just left the scene okay yeah and mike holmes and mike holmes pete holmes mike and kumail weren't they chicago guys yeah yeah but they were they were a little bit before you yeah yeah uh d-ray was still kind of d-ray davis was still kind of around but he was in la doing his shows and stuff and then
Guest:They were all kind of OGs.
Guest:I'm trying to remember my squad.
Guest:I'm sure there's a lot of people I'm not even thinking about.
Guest:Yeah, so you're really doing both.
Guest:Yeah, I'm in the scenes, though.
Guest:And I got a lot of ridicule for that shit.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:From the comics.
Guest:Yeah, all the comics were shit.
Marc:Improv people aren't going to bust your balls for doing stand-up.
Guest:Yes, they bust your balls passive-aggressively.
Guest:They're like...
Guest:I know you're a stand-up, but it's not about you just getting the joke.
Guest:It's about everyone getting the joke.
Marc:Oh, so you had to deal with that.
Marc:This is not your show.
Marc:It's our show.
Guest:And I'm like, all right, man.
Guest:I'm learning.
Marc:Yeah, but you learned how to... I find that the people that did improv, because I never did, and it was sort of not the thing to do.
Marc:There was definitely two different worlds.
Marc:I never even thought about it.
Marc:But you learned how to write.
Marc:You learned how to work with other people.
Marc:You learned how to direct a little bit and all that shit, right?
Guest:100%.
Guest:And you know how to kind of think on your feet, which you can...
Guest:get just by being on stage enough but like there's a special kind of like I love an elevated like improv experience with an audience member I don't like the easy like one two punching you know what I mean oh no no yeah if you really get into it just to pay off a thing you know it's like no no like really just go off and see where this goes make it real so when does it start to work out is your old man on board now that you're doing shows and shit
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Both of them?
Guest:They're my biggest fans.
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But it started to click.
Guest:They both started to click right around my sixth year was when I was starting to feel strong.
Guest:They were like...
Guest:from year one to three, I was trash.
Guest:I was just bad because I was, you know, I was good enough, but I was bad.
Guest:I wasn't, I look back and I'd be like, that's a bad guy.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:With some promise.
Guest:I just was spread too thin trying to learn too many things.
Guest:But then they started, like, after like, yeah, year four, it was like, oh, I'm starting to feel it.
Guest:Although it was still like, I feel stronger in improv than I'm doing my writing.
Guest:My writing feels stronger than my improv right now.
Guest:But then like around year five, like six, it was like, oh, I know how to use
Guest:my superpower a little bit.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:I know how to like separate them.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you're conscious of it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's a weird time when you feel that or like some of that fear goes away.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're not like jumping, you know, you're not on the edge.
Marc:Like you gotta get, you know, just sort of like, it just happens.
Guest:I miss the edge because the edge,
Guest:because now I have so much fun with doing both that my shows be longest.
Guest:So I'm like, I don't know when to curve the improv if I'm just having a ball.
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:I think it's weird though when you go back and forth.
Marc:I don't know how much you cut in the special, but you were definitely doing some crowd work and stuff.
Marc:There was one point in the special where there's a cut after you do some pretty good crowd work and you just go back to the bit and they're amazed that you remembered.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:That had happened on my tour for two... Because sometimes you can't follow your own crowd work.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:These are the two things I was worried about with the special.
Guest:Because I was like, I knew I wanted to improvise in the special, but I knew I wanted to have it be thematic and tie in, but I didn't want to plan it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was like, but I...
Guest:I hope I'm not chasing my laugh in the middle of the show.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:I hope I'm not chasing this fucking moment.
Guest:And I hope that like, I hope that me calling back my set, that moment happens on camera.
Guest:You know how you can be on the road and you're like, that was my special on the road.
Guest:I know, yeah.
Marc:And you never get it back.
Guest:And you never get it back.
Guest:You never do it again.
Guest:And that thing was happening so many times.
Guest:But then it was like, the lead up to the special, like the last five hours I practiced,
Guest:The moment never came.
Guest:I'm like, nigga.
Guest:What, the callback?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm like, you can't.
Guest:I mean, it's one of those things that it's a skill set I know I have, but I can't force it.
Guest:But you kind of can.
Guest:You can.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, that night I knew exactly what I was doing.
Guest:I was like, when I do this, it's going to fuck them up.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I was just feeling good.
Guest:And I was like, I knew exactly what I was doing.
Guest:It's okay to know that.
Marc:It felt great.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I mean, they like the trick.
Guest:They do.
Guest:You don't love how the technique works?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they like it.
Guest:You know, it's like, oh, that's from the before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Man, it's like he knows what he's doing.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Man, I will say I had a ball shooting that thing.
Guest:I feel like I enjoyed myself too much.
Guest:I laughed.
Marc:so much more than I usually do it's funny when you watch that when you watch yourself because like when you're younger you laugh out of a sort of insecurity right but then sometimes like as you get older you laugh because you're like fuck I just did that yeah it's kind of it's kind of like damn I'm good I'm really good at this I'm gonna have
Guest:with a fucking ball exactly you know and so I like in that way I do like it because I feel like we're all my the show really feels like it's like a kind of like a storytelling party a little bit yeah yeah it did and the crowd work was you lucked out man right yeah
Guest:I'm like, what if it gets duds?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Man, because they were like, well, I had like one of the best, like, you know, the crowd seeder.
Guest:She's amazing.
Guest:Her name escapes me.
Guest:I'm so sorry.
Guest:I love you so much.
Guest:I'm just really tired.
Guest:But she was like asking me like, yo, who do you want in the front?
Guest:And it was really skewing.
Guest:To my like, I don't want to plan too much.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Just make sure there's some couples.
Marc:You know what I'm saying?
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you didn't know anybody's occupation.
Guest:Nah.
Guest:Like varying ages of couples.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Some single folks.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then whoever you want.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It worked out.
Marc:So that was all planned.
Marc:That was like, I got to remember that.
Marc:Because I don't recall any of my specials having a cedar who was that.
Marc:Well, they knew I was going to improvise.
Marc:Oh, so they wanted to make sure that he had some meat.
Guest:yeah and i was like it really it was just like yo make sure some make no family in the front yeah oh never i don't want to see them yeah no family in front so they they had like a super dope section yeah way up talking about it yeah it was tight and then i was like just make sure you have some couples that i can readily see on camera right and that's really what it was for it was it wasn't for me planning it was more for
Guest:like i need to make sure that you can see these people sure uh because i have i have this like split screen yeah yeah yeah i've never seen that before yes yes that's all i wanted i'm done that's that's all i wanted man because usually they use it to uh cut away you know you see the audience that do cuts and i i've gotten away from that i think everyone's sort of like i don't want to see him at all bro right
Guest:I swear, I think, shout out to the editor, Sean, because I feel like I was yelling notes like, I don't want to see them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why are we seeing them?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, but it is, it's like, it feels really needy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When it's not like, I mean, there's obviously natural points where it just feels natural to do it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.
Guest:But like, those points are so much smaller than like, the specials that are out there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I don't want to pinpoint anybody's, but like,
Guest:In terms of crowd work?
Guest:Yeah, in terms of just seeing the crowd so many times.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I think that's going out of favor.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, don't tell me when to laugh visually.
Guest:Just roll with it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And also, they used to use it to cut away.
Marc:And then you see all those old specials where they're just cutting people with bad haircuts from a different era.
Marc:You know, for no reason.
Marc:And then you see him twice.
Marc:I'm like, how's that guy taking up any screen time?
Guest:Yeah, I don't get why we got to see this man with this weird laugh face.
Marc:They just did it because they wanted to be able to cut.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, like, they want to take a chunk out.
Marc:So, like, show the laughing guy.
Marc:And now we're back with this thing.
Marc:We lost 20 minutes.
Marc:That was for cutting.
Marc:So, wait.
Marc:So, how does the SNL happen?
Guest:snl happens you're doing stand-up you're doing improv yeah and you got a little name for yourself in chicago or what yeah yeah i mean i've got a name for myself in chicago yeah i've i've started to i've started to be i'm like in la so i'm building a name for myself in la at this point oh yeah yeah i had just done the pop star never that's like where around the time i met you before snl yeah yeah yeah
Guest:And I had just done Popstar, so that was like my first big movie.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:Oh, the movie.
Guest:Yeah, Andy Samberg and those guys.
Guest:But I was still broke.
Guest:I had made some movie money, but it was just enough.
Marc:People don't realize that it's not like your first movie or these TV spots.
Marc:You're not making...
Guest:You're not making bread.
Guest:You're doing day jobs?
Guest:No.
Guest:I was very much like, you got to put all your eggs.
Guest:When I was doing day jobs, they were all focused, all creative focus.
Guest:I was teaching kids on the south side of Chicago, improv and writing.
Guest:And then I was like, and I was writing commercials for this ad agency because they just had heard about me.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so I was just like, yeah, we wrote some KFC commercials and some, yeah.
Guest:They hired a nigga for the chicken commercial.
Guest:Goddamn, motherfuckers.
Guest:No one has to know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I do want to know where that guy, love that chicken from Popeye.
Guest:I want to know where he's at.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because no one sings about chicken like that.
Marc:Well, you're going to run into him now.
Marc:You'll be getting a call.
Marc:I'm right here, man.
Guest:I've been here the whole time.
Marc:And I could use a job.
Marc:What do you love?
Guest:Hot singer for you right now.
Marc:So what, they come out to Chicago for Showcase?
Guest:No, so they were in L.A.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And I was, at that point, I was like, when I go to L.A., I'm just trying to be on as many shows as possible.
Guest:And I got a call, and they were like, yo, they want to see you at a Showcase.
Guest:And I'm like, okay.
Marc:Was it Lorne or no?
Guest:No, it was Lynchie Showcase and I guess a few other, whoever she was with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had,
Guest:they come to chicago and do those auditions all the time sure i could never get one in chicago uh because in the improv scene i was too much stand up and i wasn't around them too much i'm telling you you didn't have any friends huh i had a lot of friends and like no but no one who would put you on the showcase no no who put me on a showcase wow it was a yeah it was threatened you got a beef you got a resentment
Guest:I don't know what it was I think I was I had too many shows I guess but I mean but like do you are you mad at the person that held you back not at all nah nah nah because I don't really know who I couldn't really pinpoint pinpoint he said no Chris not on this one I just blamed people the theater folks I just blamed whoever like was the head of like
Guest:you know I was like oh these motherfuckers don't see me but it's all good and then I was in that phase of my life I was in a place where everybody wanted SNL so much that I was like fuck that I don't want that shit and then I got the audition and I was like oh well maybe I mean I'll just go see what it is I'll just go be funny it's another show I'll just go do another show but you just you wanted it
Marc:Oh, you mean in terms of how you were going to handle the audition, you didn't want to psych yourself out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I definitely wanted it.
Guest:But I wasn't ever going to admit that even to myself at that time.
Guest:I was just like, I'm just going to go.
Guest:I had six shows that day along with that showcase.
Guest:I'm like, it's a show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, dude, I'm three drinks in.
Guest:I walk in there.
Guest:I fucking kill it.
Guest:And I can't believe I did because I was like, didn't care.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then they hit me and they were like, yo, that was amazing.
Guest:They want you to fly in.
Guest:And I was like, all right.
Guest:So then I went in, had some strong, like two drinks and I went in.
Guest:Before you did the studio?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I killed it there.
Guest:So they gave me the call back.
Guest:And then you got to go meet Lorne?
Guest:Yeah, so in between that callback, you got to meet Lauren, right?
Guest:How many drinks did you have before that?
Guest:So they hit me, and they're like... You got to time your high for that one.
Guest:They're like, any notes?
Guest:I was like, any notes?
Guest:And they were like, yeah, just tighten up.
Guest:And I was like, oh, it's because I was tipsy as fuck.
Guest:So I was like, all right, no drinks this time.
Guest:I have one, and I have a half of one on one, and then I'll be good.
Guest:But I wasn't nervous to meet Lauren.
Guest:I was excited because there was so much mystery.
Guest:So you did two auditions, and then you had the Lauren meeting?
Guest:I did the first audition.
Guest:We did a callback and Lauren meeting in the same time.
Marc:Oh, so you did the studio and Lauren the same time?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So how long did you wait for Lauren?
Guest:A day and a half because he was flying from the Hamptons in his helicopter and then decided not to come.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So that's pretty dramatic waiting.
Marc:Usually he's just in the other room and you don't understand what the fuck is going on.
Marc:But you got helicopter treatment.
Marc:Yo, I got helicopter.
Marc:He decided to go back.
Marc:Didn't want to fly down.
Guest:That's what they said, you know what I mean?
Guest:And I was like, man, hey, if you got turnaround helicopter money, I don't know.
Guest:There's not much I can say to you.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:So then I finally met him, and it was really good.
Guest:We kind of hit it off from the start.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Good dude, man.
Marc:He is who he is.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:That was demystified for me when I talked to him because I didn't get the show, and I held it.
Marc:I had a weird bitterness about it for decades.
Marc:Really?
Marc:He agreed for an interview, and he explained to me what happened.
Marc:It was a good enough explanation, but you do realize that no matter how rich he is or whoever the hell you think he is or whatever he's done, he's still a guy that just goes to work at that building and runs a TV show.
Marc:Yeah dude and he loves doing it And he's like And he's like focused on the show Making that show good But now you It was funny that In the special when you talk about fans of SNL Being like specifically white In a way I never thought of that but it's kind of true
Guest:It's just the way that we, the way that we look at, the way that most black culture looks at in Living Color is the way that SNL fans look at SNL.
Marc:And Living Color was like what, two seasons?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Three seasons?
Guest:But there's like, and I'm not saying this to say that there's not fans of all colors of SNL.
Marc:Sure, sure, sure.
Guest:But if you put a pie chart together, they would be majority white.
Marc:And that's fine.
Marc:Well, yeah, because it is, like, it's interesting because it's a white show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the thing is that Living Color was a specific cultural event for black people.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You know, it was the weigh-ins and everybody, and it was all black.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Except for Jim Carrey.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was weird.
Yeah.
Guest:Weird with a rubber face, but funny as hell.
Marc:But SNL, they've had issues around diversity.
Marc:Representation.
Marc:I always fuck that word.
Marc:I have to realize that the new word is representation.
Marc:New word is representation.
Marc:You gotta get that shit right.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:They're pretty good now.
Marc:They're representing everybody now.
Guest:I will say I was a part of the most diverse era of SNL that's ever been.
Guest:And it's still very diverse now.
Marc:And you're just leaving now?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was always debating.
Guest:This was before I knew the contract.
Guest:But I was always like, if I get it four years, I'm done.
Guest:And I was screaming four years forever.
Guest:And then you get in there, and it's the thing.
Guest:I've always loved that job as much as I hated a job.
Guest:I think it's what makes it a beautiful place to work at because it keeps you just feeling something and working for something.
Marc:And you're lit up, man.
Marc:It's live.
Marc:It's real time.
Marc:And there's nothing like it.
Marc:And the competitiveness of the week.
Marc:Wait to see what gets on, what doesn't get on, if you're going to be on, if anyone's going to do your shit.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It's that whole thing, and you're creating in a vacuum, too, in a way, because there's so many things you can't get away with, but you're trying to get away with certain shit.
Guest:And so in that way, I was like, man, I don't want to leave until I've learned everything I can from this place.
Guest:And then when it came down to this year, this summer, I mean, this year I lost one of my best friends.
Marc:I'm sorry about that, dude.
Marc:It was so terrible.
Marc:man he um i'm sorry about jack yeah thank you man i miss i miss him so much and uh and what we did together was so fire and what was that the show down yeah yeah that was like i man you know because i i used to see that guy at the comedy store and we met him i met him a few times and yeah he said some nice things about a very specific joke of mine which i was very flattered by because he just seemed like such a you know like he was all lit up he had that shiny kind of like
Guest:charisma to him yeah man he could control the room did you see that coming no no man no I mean there was you know it was always no nah he was always talking shit we would always talk shit we were dark in that way but like it was never
Guest:No one ever thought he would actually do it.
Guest:But he had depression?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Marc:I should say, we should say his name.
Guest:Jack Knight.
Guest:Jack Knight.
Guest:On my special, I wear JK on the back.
Guest:It's for my boy, man.
Guest:Did that spark you to get serious with your shit?
Guest:Oh, I've always been serious, Mark.
Guest:No, I mean about the issues.
Guest:No, it's, well, I was already on my way.
Guest:We used to talk all the time about that, like about just the depression and like how I'm feeling.
Guest:Yeah, we would talk, we had like one three-hour conversation about just kind of,
Guest:everything it was a it was like a couple days before oh my god um so i was glad i was like really glad i was on a plane delay randomly yeah and just called him and we just was talking shit and i was so glad i had that convo with him but us making our show and like me coming from snl and then doing like a show that was all us and just like it's sam
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's me, Sam J. Lynx and Kerman.
Guest:And it was just very much us and so funny.
Guest:And I was like, man, I I don't you know, I lost my other homie, Teddy Ray.
Guest:And so it was like, bro, I got to spend time doing what I really want to do.
Guest:Because we don't know When we gonna go You know what I'm saying We've lost so many Damn comics What happened to Teddy Teddy passed away Yeah How's that I think I didn't In the pool man Yeah That's right That wasn't that long ago either No it wasn't man It was like A couple weeks after Jack Right Yeah it was It was a tough one man So I was like bro I wanna I wanna be able to Like get out Work with Work with my friends So that was one of the reasons You get out of SNL too
Guest:Yeah, and also, like, I'm just ready to come in.
Guest:How many years did you go put in?
Marc:Five.
Marc:All right.
Guest:Yeah, I feel like five was five.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:It's not too little, not too much.
Marc:Not too little.
Marc:A year later than you planned.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you didn't get stuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I could have done one more.
Guest:I could have done one more, but, like, I won't regret it.
Guest:But were you like, everyone else is leaving?
Guest:No, it wasn't that.
Guest:It was... People were writing like that, but it's not that at all.
Guest:For me, it was like, I'm going to miss those people, but that gave us more...
Guest:more to play with like it was so many people there that you're fighting for very little time and i'm like i don't know how much longer i can fight for two minutes right five right oh so it's it was always competitive but when there's you know 23 players bro and it's like i can go do shows yeah i can go make i can go do other stuff yeah yeah and i don't want to leave this thing bitter as shit yeah right you know so it was it just it just felt like the right thing to do yeah
Guest:And now I'm working on some exciting shit.
Guest:And I haven't focused on just kind of like stand-up being a major thing.
Guest:I've been juggling it, and I've definitely put all my time, as much time as I possibly can.
Guest:But it's going to be cool.
Marc:We did the special.
Guest:You worked that out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That took a little time.
Guest:I never took breaks, so on my off weeks from SNL, I was on the road.
Marc:Pounding away?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How's the self-help business in terms of where you at with that?
Marc:You feeling good about the therapist and stuff?
Guest:Yeah, I'm feeling good.
Guest:We're two years deep now, and I like it a lot.
Guest:My anxiety has been peaking.
Marc:How does that manifest for you though?
Marc:Because you're working all the time.
Marc:So what's the anxiety?
Marc:What is it usually about?
Marc:Because I have anxiety problems and I've been having a little bit of a hard time with it because I've had it on and off all my life.
Marc:But for some reason, what I do is I worry about shit.
Guest:Yeah, I worry and I spiral.
Guest:So the thoughts are just rapidly.
Marc:But you're just making up shit that's gonna make you crazy and you can't control it.
Guest:Yeah, and I'm just thinking of the worst case scenarios and it gets to a point where it's just kind of debilitating.
Guest:I just isolate.
Marc:Did Jack have that?
Guest:Yeah, in his way, yeah.
Guest:Or he was more classic depressed.
Guest:I mean, honestly, Jack was dope.
Guest:Jack was just, he wasn't walking around depressed.
Marc:He had depression.
Marc:Because I find, the only reason I ask that, we don't need to talk about, we can't speak for the dead and he's your friend.
Marc:But if I let my anxiety go long enough, I get depressed.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I was dipping, like, every four or five days until I started, like... I'm on Well Butcher now.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:That really helps a lot.
Marc:Yeah, does it?
Guest:Like, with the spirals, yeah.
Guest:Like, I never go as low as I was going.
Guest:I was going low for years.
Guest:I just thought I would have, like, every other week, I'll just have a day or two where I'm just not going to see people.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I just kind of, like, dealt with it that way until I was...
Guest:dating somebody and they were like, hey, why don't you try this?
Guest:And I was always scared of it changing like.
Marc:Oh, you mean the pills, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but then this is like super mild and it just.
Guest:Yeah, it's not bad.
Guest:Yeah, and I took it and I was like, oh my God, people feel like this?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You don't have to feel like that.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Oh, that's, oh.
Marc:You got the right one.
Guest:Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Guest:And so that changed everything.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Well, that's great, man.
Marc:And what do you got, what are you working on now?
Marc:Movies?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:We got the special, but then I got a couple projects with Broadway Video.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Working on one for Audible with Will Steven.
Guest:You're going to be working for Lauren the rest of your life.
Guest:Rest of my life, man.
Guest:I can't get away from the man.
Guest:No, I love the dude.
Guest:and we're doing Cyber Monday this is gonna be a movie we're shooting at they're doing the deals now so I can't say we're shooting it but we'll shoot it soon and I'm working with some folks I'll come back to tell you who but we're working on a TV show and a movie I kinda wanna do a horror comedy so I'm working on that and
Marc:Call Marlon Wayans.
Marc:He loves that shit.
Guest:Man, he loves that shit, don't he?
Guest:Shout out.
Marc:Scary movie.
Marc:I just did Corden with him.
Marc:And him and I, we have a funny relationship.
Marc:I just can't help but bust his balls.
Marc:He laughs.
Marc:Because we did Respect Together, so we became friends.
Marc:Oh, that's fine.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But he's in another movie that's kind of a scary movie.
Marc:It's a family scary movie.
Marc:He didn't write it.
Marc:He's just in it.
Guest:He's just in it.
Marc:Get that check, man.
Marc:He's funny.
Guest:Family scary movies are always fun.
Guest:It's all like, ooh.
Guest:It's light.
Guest:I say that, Marlon, if you ever listen to this.
Guest:I say that only because I'm a true horror fan.
Guest:I look at family movies and I'm just like, oh, that's soft.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:That's horror for the suburbs.
Guest:You like the horror?
Guest:Oh, I love it, man.
Guest:I think I love it because
Guest:I've been watching them forever, but also it has the same kind of rhythm as comedy.
Marc:It does, actually.
Marc:I can deal with it sometimes.
Marc:I get a little impatient with horror.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, because let's just get on with it.
Marc:Kill the guy.
Marc:What are we doing?
Guest:What are we doing here?
Marc:I was just going to take it.
Guest:I get impatient if it's like no meaning to like there's like a show out now called Slasher which is just a guy killing people for no reason and I'm just like I don't like that no story just killing no story just like just different scenarios where people getting slashed on it's just like murder porn yeah I'm like this is not fun for me bro I gotta get into it more my girlfriend likes it I mean there's some of it I like you know but maybe there's some old school shit that I gotta get into there's man there's some really good shit out there Barbarian is a great one yeah
Guest:yeah barbarians super dope uh doctor sleep is one oh yeah these are shows or movies these are movies okay yeah but uh i love i like i like horror too because there's you it's easy to fall into the pitfalls being a hack just the same as comedy there's so many like things it's all been done yeah it's all been done so it's really challenging to make a good one so when you do it's like oh shit and that's that's the plan that's the plan i'm gonna try all right you know i'm gonna get after it good to talk to you man man it's great to talk to you bro and finally
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:About goddamn time.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Are you going to stay in New York?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm in Harlem.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I'm going to stay in Harlem.
Guest:All right.
Guest:But I'm going to be in LA a bunch.
Marc:All right.
Guest:I'll see you over there.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:All right, buddy.
Marc:Chris Redd.
Marc:The show.
Marc:The comedy show.
Marc:The special.
Marc:Why Am I Like This?
Marc:Streaming on HBO Max.
Marc:And if you could, please hang out for a second.
Marc:All right, folks, today's archive episode that we are highlighting is episode 642 with Michaela Watkins.
Marc:Now, Michaela Watkins is a close friend of mine.
Marc:She was a close friend of Lynn Shelton's as well.
Marc:But in the episode, we talk about how she is one of the few former SNL cast members who is honest and open about how she didn't
Marc:Have a great time at SNL.
Marc:And this is a little bit of that.
Guest:I like Lorne a lot.
Guest:I respect him, but I didn't want to be, here's the thing.
Guest:I didn't want to, I thought our relationship would happen organically.
Guest:So I never pushed one with him.
Guest:I never kissed ass.
Guest:And I was really intimidated by him, but I felt like over time, I'm gonna get to know him as a person and he'll get to know me as a person.
Guest:And I trusted that that would happen.
Guest:So I don't think, I never kissed ass or anything.
Guest:I never seeked people out.
Guest:And every once in a while, you know, one of the cast members is like, you should go thank Lauren, go say hi to Lauren, you know, make sure you stop by.
Guest:Or maybe not the cast, but sometimes the other producers are like, you should go say hi to Lauren.
Guest:And I'd walk up to his table and be like, hi.
Guest:And he's like, hello.
Guest:And I'd be like, how are you doing?
Guest:Are you having a good time?
Guest:I'm like, yeah, I am.
Guest:I'm really happy to be here.
Guest:I like your tie.
Guest:Okay, I'll talk to you later.
Guest:Okay, goodbye.
Marc:So the real reason why you didn't necessarily kiss ass is that, you know, you didn't.
Guest:I wasn't good at it.
Guest:And also, like Bill Hader said, you know, the fact that you're going to go do this movie and he's letting you off to go do this movie or whatever.
Marc:Which movie?
Guest:It was Backup Plan.
Guest:And he said, you should thank Lauren because, you know, I one time didn't and I could tell, I don't know, maybe it bothered him.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:He didn't know, but he was just like, maybe you want to.
Guest:And I just was walking down the hall, and you sometimes see him coming.
Guest:And every part of me is like, go the other way.
Guest:Just turn.
Guest:Turn on your heels.
Guest:Go run.
Guest:Move.
Guest:But I was like, no, I'm going to take Bill's advice.
Guest:I'm going to go thank him.
Guest:And by the way, Bill was incredibly sweet.
Guest:I mean, he didn't have to.
Marc:People don't usually give advice there.
Guest:It was really nice of him, too.
Guest:So I know it was coming from a nice place, but I went over to Lauren and it was without any like, you know, warming into a conversation.
Guest:I was like, hi, Lauren, I just want to say thank you so much for letting me do this movie.
Guest:I am really excited to go do this.
Guest:And you're just very nice.
Guest:And also, is that you do you have a lot of shirts like that?
Guest:I like that one.
Guest:It's very nice on your body.
Guest:And he just kind of looked at me and he went, OK.
Guest:Like just, okay.
Guest:And I was like, this guy hates me.
Guest:And he never, I, like I said, I never had that one-on-one where I sit down at his office and he gets to know me as me.
Guest:So it's just, I could never, I always misfired every time I talked to the guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So yeah, there you go.
Marc:Michaela Watkins, episode 642.
Marc:And that's available for free on all podcasts, apps, and platforms.
Marc:You can get every WTF episode ad-free with a WTF Plus subscription.
Marc:Click on the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.
Marc:Tonight, I'm in Dallas, Texas at the Majestic Theater.
Marc:Tomorrow, Friday, I'm in San Antonio at the Tobin Center for the Performing Arts for two shows.
Marc:And on Saturday, I'm in Houston at the Cullen Theater at Wortham Center.
Marc:Then I'm in Long Beach, California at the Carpenter Performing Arts Center on Saturday, November 12th.
Marc:Eugene, Oregon at the Holt Center for the Performing Arts on Friday, November 18th.
Marc:And Bend, Oregon at the Tower Theater on Saturday, November 19th.
Marc:In December, I'm in Asheville, North Carolina at the Orange Peel for two shows on
Marc:on friday december 2nd and then nashville tennessee i'm at the james k polk center on saturday december 3rd and my hbo special taping is at town hall in new york city on thursday december 8th go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all dates and ticket info okay now here's some guitar that i did at some point
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