Episode 1368 - Sam Rockwell
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast holy shit how's it going with you look people sam rockwell's back he's here today
Marc:This is his second time on the show.
Marc:He was on back in 2016, episode 695.
Marc:Since then, he's won an Oscar.
Marc:He was on Broadway in American Buffalo, and we made the bad guys together.
Marc:And now he's in a new mystery movie called See How They Run.
Marc:He gets to play the English drunken constable or detective.
Marc:Finally, put that feather in your cap, Sammy.
Marc:But what's interesting that's happening now, and I don't know, like before I go into that, Matt Bronger, friend of the show, friend of mine, has a new comedy special coming out.
Marc:Matt's been on this show before a couple of times.
Marc:He's a very funny guy.
Marc:The special is called Doug.
Marc:It's actually premiering as a digital event on October 6th.
Marc:You can go to moment.co and get tickets.
Marc:And then you get the special live and on replay.
Marc:Matt Bronger's Doug.
Marc:But as some of you have noticed, we seem to be doing some guests, having people back.
Marc:I think it was only a matter of time, not just because I've interviewed almost everybody on the spectrum of people I enjoy interviewing, but...
Marc:I've actually become friends with a couple of people.
Marc:Some of the people that I interviewed years ago were friends then and so many things have happened.
Marc:And there are some people that I just want to talk about certain things with or enjoy their company again.
Marc:Me and Sammy, me and Rockwell, we did a movie together.
Marc:We've seen each other many times over the last few years.
Marc:And it was just sort of, you get to know people a little better.
Marc:And it's interesting with actors.
Marc:You know, the first time I interviewed him, I remember, you know, I liked him and, you know, we didn't really know each other.
Marc:He was, you know, Lynn loved him.
Marc:I think that was even before, like, you know, he knew me and Lynn were friends.
Marc:But it was like a first meeting.
Marc:As many of you who have listened to this show for years, you realize that...
Marc:A lot of these things are almost I wouldn't call them first dates, but they are people getting to know each other, me and somebody getting to know each other in its best form and having some sort of breakthrough in that initial exchange.
Marc:And I think me and Sam did all right that first time.
Marc:But, you know, actors are tricky sometimes.
Marc:Even after this one, he's like, he'd listened to, I don't remember who, but I just know that we were walking out of the garage here and he's like, you know, I could have talked about more personal stuff.
Marc:Yeah, man, maybe next time.
Marc:I'm like, okay, okay.
Marc:I don't demand anybody get too personal.
Marc:The point is that me and Sam...
Marc:I had a good time catching up, and I think it's deeper and it's better, and it's different than the first time.
Marc:I mean, many shows do this.
Marc:It's amazing on some level that we've done 1,400 of these or however many and have a very limited number of repeats.
Marc:And some people, I think, are literally 12 years older.
Marc:Then, you know, I talked to when they're like, it's been a decade.
Marc:It's at least for some people that's almost like they're grownups now.
Marc:We should go back.
Marc:I got to talk to some people like, you know, since they've become a grownup.
Marc:I don't know if I mentioned this before.
Marc:I feel like I did.
Marc:I'm just I got this new kitten.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:The amount I am so happy that I don't have kids to be for the kids sake, for the kids sake.
Marc:I'm having a I've got to keep my panic in check.
Marc:You know, there's the broader panic, you know, outside of climate catastrophe, fascism.
Marc:The waves of fentanyl, metamphetamine, houselessness.
Marc:Now Putin wants to maybe blast off a couple nukes.
Marc:It's just the macro panic forever available.
Marc:It's sort of become the kind of universal unconscious is a bit panicky.
Marc:There's deep anxiety in the universe because of this...
Marc:species problem human species problem has cluttered the collective unconscious the global unconscious is anxious but it may soon be relieved
Marc:But on the micro, I just I don't know how people do it.
Marc:You know, I've got just the cats.
Marc:I just like I used to be able I had some equipment in place in my mind where I could manage that, where it's like, hey, man, they're animals are going to make it.
Marc:They're going to survive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The new kitten can be in that room for a while.
Marc:He's not going to freak out.
Marc:He's not you know, he's not lonely and might die of depression.
Marc:You know, that that's you projecting onto a kitten.
Marc:He's just in that room there because you don't want him running around the house yet because he's too small.
Marc:He might hurt himself.
Marc:And you want to be in the house when he's running around so he can be in the room.
Marc:So what if he cries a little bit?
Marc:He's not he's not going to hang himself in there.
Marc:He's not going to kill himself.
Marc:It's not going to make him some sort of, you know, ill prepared cat to socialize in life.
Marc:He'll figure it out.
Marc:He's a fucking wired little kitten.
Marc:You don't need to project all that weirdness onto it.
Marc:You poorly parented fuck.
Marc:See, now that's not a great inner dialogue, is it?
Marc:Seriously.
Marc:Kitten's okay.
Marc:I had that realization about cats.
Marc:You don't know how they're going to turn out.
Marc:When you get a kitten, man, it's like, what an amazing kitten.
Marc:Buster was an amazing kitten.
Marc:Monkey and LaFonda were amazing kittens.
Marc:Boomer was a little older than a kitten, and he was always fucked up and weird.
Marc:Moxie, the old cat, great kitten.
Marc:Butch, my first cat, amazing kitten, died very young, year and a half old, enlarged heart, genetic issue.
Marc:But these kittens, you get them, and they're just always pretty amazing.
Marc:Sammy was a little pensive, kind of concerned, but cute.
Marc:The world seemed to weigh heavy on Sammy.
Marc:Buster was half feral and a little crazy, but Buster always had some sort of human spirit to him.
Marc:I'm the only guy that can hold Buster a certain way.
Marc:I can cradle him and look him in the eyes, and there's an understanding there that I feel goes beyond Katniss.
Marc:look i'm sure that's i'm sure you all feel that about your cats but this fucking guy charlie charlie beans roscoe is out of his fucking mind and will not stop biting and will not stop darting and it's amazing but i think my point is is like as these cats age buster you know had a near-death experience with his kidneys and
Marc:And it has turned into a very interesting, quirky cat, a very smart cat.
Marc:You know, he's gotten more affectionate.
Marc:He's gotten older.
Marc:And, you know, but Sammy's kind of weird.
Marc:He's still very thoughtful.
Marc:I think he's a little stressed in there, a little panicky, and not that affectionate, really.
Marc:In the morning, you know, he'll come up to my face and lay on my chest, and I'll pet him a little bit.
Marc:But I do not know what that cat wants, and that is the only time he's affectionate to me.
Marc:The rest of the day, he's sort of like, no, no, no.
Marc:I don't know what I want.
Marc:I think I'm a little uncomfortable.
Marc:But he's playing with it.
Marc:My point, they're not beating up on it.
Marc:Buster's not beating up on Charlie as much as he beat up on Sammy.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:It's just, I think sometimes you get a kitten and then they kind of evolve into a lumpy cat, like a cat that's sort of like, meh, it's okay.
Marc:You build an understanding with whatever the cat becomes.
Marc:But sometimes, not so much that they're disappointing, but they certainly, sometimes they're not exciting.
Marc:They're not, you know, they may not really give a shit about you and you have to just, and then you're in, you're in.
Marc:For 17 to 20 years.
Marc:You know, it's like, and sometimes you have those moments where it's like, was the kitten-ness worth whatever this is?
Marc:Me just kind of supporting this cat that doesn't really seem to like me and isn't that really animated?
Marc:And you just kind of push through and kind of adapt and begin to understand their...
Marc:Their particular personality, I guess like a child, you can't just say like, well, this kid was a lot better when he was two.
Marc:Maybe I'll put him up for adoption because I'm just a little bored with this kid.
Marc:You know, you dance with the one that brought you.
Marc:Is that what that means?
Marc:So listen to me, Sam Rockwell, always great to see him.
Marc:Exciting guy.
Marc:Does great work.
Marc:And, you know, we have a good time.
Marc:So this is Sam and me talking.
Marc:See how they run.
Marc:The new movie is now playing in theaters.
Marc:And here we go.
Marc:Here we go.
Guest:Let's work hands.
Guest:You want to work hands?
Guest:Yeah, let's work hands.
Guest:I get the real, get the bad guys sound here.
Guest:There we go.
Guest:Hey, testing mine.
Guest:What?
Marc:Can you give a little more energy, Mark?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wait, what'd you do with Sigourney River?
Marc:She was here yesterday.
Marc:I found her to be exactly as you'd expect.
Marc:Very together.
Marc:Very together.
Marc:Very together.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:She's playful, too.
Guest:We did Galaxy Quest together.
Guest:Oh, that's right, yeah.
Guest:And we had a good time with the late, great Alan Rickman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We had a great time, and we did stupid Meisner exercises.
Guest:She was very into nerdy acting stuff.
Marc:Yeah, she's serious.
Guest:Yeah, she's serious.
Guest:Her husband, theater director.
Marc:But when I was going over her stuff-
Marc:She really did the thing.
Marc:I mean, she put the work in.
Marc:She did the New York in the early 70s with Christopher Durang and went to Yale.
Marc:She went to Yale.
Guest:She did the Shakespeare training at Yale and all that stuff.
Marc:She went through it.
Marc:They didn't think she could do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They were very discouraging.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where did you go?
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:I went to a Meisner course for two years with William Esper, and I met my acting coach there, Terry Knickerbocker, along with this woman named Maggie Flanagan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's like a two-year program.
Guest:But there's no what they call conservatory training, which is like speech and voice and shit.
Marc:Are you ashamed?
Guest:Are you ashamed that you didn't get that stuff?
Guest:I was, and I went and got private vocal training from Kristen Linklater and this woman, Andrea Herring,
Guest:about 20 years ago to kind of make up for it.
Guest:Yeah, and what do you learn there?
Guest:And did some Shakespeare stuff with Kristen.
Guest:You know, I mean, I worked, just made my voice stronger.
Guest:I worked on Hamlet a little bit, and I got my voice.
Guest:I was doing a play that Phil Hoffman was directing at The Public, Steven Gerges' play, and I just thought my... I'd been doing theater since I was 10, but my voice was weak, and I wanted to strengthen it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I went there, and...
Guest:I was kind of obsessed with Hamlet for a while, and I messed around with that.
Guest:And then I just started working on this vocal training.
Guest:I don't want to bore you with all this crap, but she wrote a book called Freeing the Natural Voice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's essentially- Do you sing?
Guest:No, I croon a little.
Guest:Do you sing?
Guest:I can sing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I sang last night.
Marc:Where'd you sing last night?
Marc:With my combo.
Marc:Over at Largo.
Marc:You mean your comedy?
Marc:I got a little band.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Marc:Then we do it every few months.
Marc:Do some covers.
Marc:Some Velvet Underground.
Marc:Oh, you did some Velvet Underground.
Marc:Yeah, we did some Modern Lovers.
Marc:We did some blues covers.
Guest:That's cool.
Marc:Did a Dylan cover.
Marc:Did a Dylan cover.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you go to Largo and you play with your band.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:You play guitar, obviously.
Marc:Yeah, I play some guitar.
Marc:I play with the band.
Marc:Then we do some comedy.
Marc:Hannah Einbinder came.
Marc:Eric Griffin came.
Marc:We do a little variety.
Marc:Stand-up or skit stuff?
Marc:No sketch.
Marc:No skits.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So tell me about this book, The Voice.
Guest:So it's called Freeing the Natural Voice, and basically it means that the theory is that when little kids, you hear little kids screaming in the park, in the playground, they're unfiltered.
Guest:They don't, they have, there's nothing...
Guest:blocking the channel, so to speak.
Guest:No fear, no self-consciousness.
Guest:There's no fear, there's no self-consciousness.
Guest:And as we get older, we start to kind of... Strangle ourselves.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:With panic.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And anxiety and terror.
Guest:And then... Comes right from your throat.
Guest:You start talking like this, and then you're not really talking.
Guest:So the idea is to get back to that childlike diaphragm that we had.
Guest:You do those exercises, you're like, ha, ha, ha.
Guest:Yes, hey.
Guest:Oh, you just did that in your new movie.
Guest:Which, the bad guys?
Guest:Which movie?
Guest:No, the British one.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Did you see it?
Guest:I watched it.
Guest:Most of it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's fun.
Guest:You did the British guy.
Guest:I did the British guy.
Marc:The British inspector.
Guest:I did the British inspector, yeah.
Marc:You can add that to the list.
Marc:You're one of many.
Guest:The British drunk inspector, yes.
Guest:Of British inspectors.
Guest:Yes, yes, yeah.
Guest:It's fun.
Marc:It was fun.
Marc:But the voicing, so it helped free your voice, so you keep it open.
Guest:Yeah, so I do that when you were nice enough to come to American Buffalo, and so I had to have a voice warm-up, 20-minute voice warm-up that Andrea put on tape for me.
Marc:From 20 years ago?
Guest:It's kind of like from 20 years ago.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it's kind of been, she's worked on a couple for me.
Guest:So you've done theater since you were 10?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because I did go see American Buffalo.
Guest:I really appreciate it, man.
Guest:No, no, but a lot of, you know, some close friends of mine didn't come.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, dude.
Guest:To see that play?
Marc:Who wouldn't want to go see that play?
Guest:Well, exactly.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I mean, it's like.
Marc:Darren Criss, Lawrence Fishburne, come on.
Marc:But yeah, but just the play itself, it's like, it's tight.
Marc:It moves.
Marc:It does move.
Marc:It's exciting.
Marc:By the way.
Marc:You're in and out in an hour and a half.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:It's got dirty words.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it held up.
Marc:I thought it held up pretty well.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who decided to do American Buffalo again?
Marc:Whose idea was that?
Guest:I think I was chasing it for a while.
Guest:I think Lawrence was chasing it.
Guest:So was Darren.
Guest:And then I think Leah was going to do it.
Guest:Oscar Isaac.
Guest:And then who produced it?
Guest:Who directed it?
Guest:Jeffrey Richards and Neil Pepe.
Marc:But they decided it's time to do this show again?
Marc:They were kind of going to do it with Liev and this other director.
Guest:He was going to play your part?
Guest:He was going to play my part and then Oscar was going to do it.
Guest:He would have been too thoughtful.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You think?
Marc:He strikes me as a serious fellow.
Marc:You're not a serious fellow, are you?
Marc:You know, I'm a sensitive fellow.
Marc:I don't know if I'm a serious fellow.
Marc:That's more important.
Marc:Sensitive's more important.
Guest:I don't know if I'm a serious fellow.
Guest:I try not to be serious, but yeah.
Guest:But yeah, I mean, I think those guys would have been...
Guest:fabulous teachers who was gonna be who was gonna be the other guy the other guy david morris read it at one point oh yeah he was gonna play yeah i haven't seen him in a while um he's a heavy cat he's a heavy cat yeah no i mean you know i um i don't know i you know it's just it was a great it was a great opportunity i was lucky to do it and when you approach that because i mean i saw pacino do that guy
Marc:Yeah, that's right, you did.
Marc:At the Schubert in the 80s.
Marc:Like, yeah, when I was in college, I saw him do it.
Marc:And, yeah, I think it was different.
Marc:I tried to remember it, but, I mean, you guys really came out of different.
Guest:You said it was Scarface.
Guest:You said it was very Scarface, yeah.
Marc:I feel like he had a little of that in him still.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He hadn't quite shaken Tony Montana yet.
Guest:Yeah, I think I saw a clip of it and he looked very Tony Montana.
Marc:Well, yeah, he held the state.
Marc:Like, you know, he's so, like, this, I didn't really appreciate the play then because I didn't quite get that these guys were kind of schlubs.
Marc:yeah you know and they were kind of you know they are schlubs yeah yeah and they were they botched it they were not a together operation yeah yeah you know like for some reason he played it too menacing which i think you played it a little funnier i played it more deferential probably to donnie yeah um
Guest:Because with an actor like Lawrence Fishburne, you can't dominate Lawrence Fishburne.
Guest:You have to manipulate him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You have to manipulate a Donnie like that.
Guest:So it became much more Iago in that sense.
Guest:Oh, I get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Lawrence is just too formidable as an actor and as a power, as a force.
Guest:So the only way to get in was to sort of be more...
Marc:So that was the so that was the intention.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we'd heard about the Bobby Duvall one, the Robert Duvall one with Kenneth McMillan, John Savage, and that that was that was the one that sounded very well rounded.
Guest:And and.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Did you see footage of it?
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:I saw a little bit of Pacino and he was fucking brilliant.
Guest:It's dangerous.
Guest:Dangerous.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:It was a different game.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he took over the whole show.
Marc:I mean, I can barely remember Teach.
Marc:It was one of those, I can't remember who played him.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But he just steamrolled everybody.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I don't remember, but I was younger, so I don't know what I know.
Guest:No, I mean, I'd heard things like that and I'd heard, you know, that Duvall was great, too, and that that was more of a kind of the well-rounded production.
Guest:But, you know, a lot of these people have played it.
Guest:Bill Peterson played it.
Guest:You know who I talked to?
Guest:You ever talk to Richard Jenkins?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I talked to him a lot.
Guest:He played Teach.
Marc:That makes sense.
Guest:And I would call him.
Guest:I got a couple of friends I call.
Guest:I call Billy Crudup.
Guest:I call Patty Clarkson.
Guest:But I talk to Richard quite a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I get advice.
Guest:I don't know if you do that with comedians like Bill Burr or anybody like that, if you talk to anybody.
Guest:But I talk to those guys.
Guest:I see him around.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I think it's a different thing.
Marc:It's a different thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what do you ask Richard Jenkins?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:well i asked him i said you know what am i i said i don't know what i'm doing and i don't know i i just feel stale and i'm losing my i'm losing saliva when i hear the speeches and and billy crudup was very helpful too with that he said it's all about one thought the fucking ruthie speech is one thought right i think i came to you at one point and when we were doing bad guys i said because this reminds me of stand up right could you take a look at this i think we talked about it briefly yeah you know yeah
Guest:But you got to get help.
Guest:And Richard said something about that he felt that one night he was doing it.
Guest:He did your part?
Guest:He played T. She also did Fool for Love and played Eddie, which I also did on Broadway.
Guest:And he talked to me about Eddie.
Guest:So Richard and I have been talking about...
Guest:For a long time.
Marc:He must have played it a while.
Marc:He's an older guy.
Guest:He did it a long time ago, yeah.
Guest:And he gave me the iron thing.
Guest:I think we stole the iron thing.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was a bait-and-switch thing.
Guest:And then we also... But he said that one night he couldn't... He just couldn't do it the way he was doing it.
Guest:It was too, like... Whatever he was doing, it was getting stale, and it was like...
Guest:hey, I'm doing one of these guys or something.
Guest:And then he was like, fuck this.
Guest:And he went up to his co-stars and he said, I don't know what's gonna happen out there, but I gotta try something different, because this is getting really stale.
Guest:Because he was just sleeping through it?
Guest:He just felt like he wasn't being spontaneous.
Guest:And he said that that night,
Guest:He came on and he did it.
Guest:He didn't know what was going to happen.
Guest:Each moment felt fresh, which is what acting should be.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I imagine stand-up is a little bit like that.
Marc:Hopefully, you leave a little room.
Marc:You got to leave a little room for things to drop in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For me, like lately, last couple nights even, just riffing.
Marc:I don't think you guys can really do that because you've still got to honor a script.
Marc:We can self-generate.
Marc:You can self-generate.
Marc:So that keeps it lively.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But do you feel like you have to have some control and a third eye that's looking at you, but do you feel like you can, you obviously have material that you've worked on, but you feel like you can improvise to some extent and vibe off the audience?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, it's the only way I can write.
Marc:Like I come up with some new bits the last couple nights just because you get tired.
Marc:Like when a comic gets tired of his act, you got to go do some new shit.
Marc:But you generate it.
Marc:It's difficult.
Marc:It must be more difficult as an actor when you're tired of your part to try to make that new.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Marc:Just do it like this?
Marc:I'm going to talk like this now.
Marc:I'm going to talk like that.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah, you know.
Guest:By the way, we tried some different voices, I think, occasionally.
Guest:But I mean, I watched that Seinfeld documentary about him and that comedian years ago.
Guest:I had that guy on recently.
Guest:You did?
Guest:That guy was on the thing?
Guest:Orny Adams, yeah.
Guest:That's his name.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And they had the same manager.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Poor kid.
Marc:That movie ruined his life.
Marc:No shit.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:For years, it just made him so unappealing to almost the entire world.
Marc:So you had him on recently?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Because he annoyed me, too.
Marc:But I said, let's talk to this guy.
Marc:Let's work it out.
Marc:And it was sort of like, wow.
Marc:He is powerfully annoying.
Marc:I got to listen to that.
Marc:But that thing really haunted him, and I think Jerry really set him up, you know, to be the fall guy in that thing.
Marc:What were you going to say about that?
Guest:Well, I was just going to say what I thought was fascinating is that it takes, like, six months, or this is paraphrasing, to get, like, 15 minutes of material or 10 minutes of material or to work that material, to polish it out.
Guest:Yeah, that's about right.
Guest:And that some comedians were able to improvise and some not.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Six months for 10 minutes of material.
Guest:You think that's about right?
Marc:Can be.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, if you really want to get it going, but that's the funny thing is if you got a nice big chunk and you kind of work out, like I've been working this shit that I've been doing for over a year now because I'm doing this special that kind of got moved, but now it's like, I'm going to shoot it in December, but I've been doing this shit for like a while.
Marc:And then I keep folding new stuff in and keep adding to it.
Marc:I'm pretty conversational.
Marc:So it keeps it fresh.
Marc:But I think six months to get a 10 to 15 minute chunk is about right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:To get it working.
Marc:And then when you get it working, you're like, all right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that's done.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You burn it on a show and then you just move on.
Marc:It goes away.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you're reaching out to all these guys.
Marc:Crudup's another guy you reach out to?
Guest:Crudup is another guy.
Guest:Did he play Teach?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but I've seen a lot of great theater he's done, and he's one of my friends.
Guest:He's a big theater guy, right?
Guest:Yeah, he's a big theater guy.
Guest:He's a really good theater actor, and he's a good friend of mine.
Guest:And, you know, he's really smart.
Guest:He trained at NYU, and he took some time with me, and he's really one of the most articulate people about acting.
Guest:But so wait, you've been doing theater since you were 10?
Marc:How is that possible?
Guest:I've been doing, because I did it with my mom when I was a kid, and then I'd visit her in New York and do theater.
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:She was an actor.
Guest:She's a painter now.
Guest:Abstract?
Guest:No, kind of like Salvador Dali-ish kind of stuff.
Guest:Really?
Guest:So detailed, weird things?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Small canvases?
Guest:Kind of like...
Marc:Wild kind of big, small, you name it.
Marc:I was very surprised to see how small most Dali paintings are.
Guest:Are they?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The first time I saw a Dali painting, I'm like, that's it?
Marc:It's like so small.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Where did you see them?
Guest:In Spain?
Marc:They're around.
Marc:I mean, you know, I think I saw- They're around.
Guest:MoMA.
Marc:Yeah, there must be one there.
Marc:I mean, I think there is one at MoMA, at least.
Marc:But I think I did see a lot of them in Spain.
Marc:I'm not a huge fan.
Guest:Yeah, whatever.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:Did you ever see Adrian Brody when he played the Salvador Dali in the Woody Allen movie?
Guest:That was pretty good.
Marc:I liked what he did in that.
Marc:I do, but I just saw him in your movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's always pretty good.
Marc:I always like seeing him.
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:I like when he plays the wild guys.
Guest:He's really good in this movie.
Guest:He's really good.
Marc:Okay, so she's a painter now, but you guys used to do it.
Guest:So my parents separated when I was five, and then she acted for a while, and I would go visit her in New York in the summer, and that's how I got into acting.
Guest:Where was your old man?
Guest:My dad was in San Francisco.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:We moved around a little bit.
Guest:We lived in a lot of places.
Guest:We lived in Tenderloin at one point.
Guest:my grandma's we lived in the Castro we lived all of San Francisco you name it what was that about well we were broke you know and then he got a real job when I was about nine and he got remarried and yeah do you ever think about moving back there
Guest:Well, I do, but I don't because I don't have any friends there, really.
Guest:Well, I used to think that's- I have one friend there.
Guest:That's it.
Marc:Yeah, but I mean, well, I get it.
Marc:So, like, because I was hanging on to this idea that I'm going to move back to New Mexico because it's beautiful.
Guest:Because you're nostalgic for it, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but whatever you're nostalgic for is long gone.
Marc:Like, you know, everything about whatever you're nostalgic for, gone, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because, like, I mean, it's still beautiful there, though, but what am I going to do?
Marc:Every time I go there, because my dad's still there, I just sit in the hotel and I'm like, the fuck am I doing here?
Marc:And I was looking at houses up by Santa Fe and shit, but like, what am I going to just sit up here by the mountain and call the kid I went to Hebrew school with once or twice a week to see what he's doing?
Yeah.
Guest:Wait, can I ask you something?
Guest:When is it not hot as balls there?
Marc:It's not as hot as here.
Marc:New Mexico's got seasons.
Marc:It's not Arizona.
Marc:They have ski areas.
Marc:Go to Taos and ski.
Marc:Northern New Mexico, you get snow, you get cold.
Marc:So when it's nice weather, what do you do?
Marc:I don't fucking know.
Marc:What do you do anywhere when you're at a certain age?
Marc:That's true.
Guest:You just go to the gym or you go to the restaurant.
Marc:Get the coffee.
Marc:Say hi to the guy.
Marc:What's up?
Guest:It kind of is the same shit no matter where you go, right?
Marc:Four blocks, baby.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I went to San Francisco with my dad and we went.
Guest:Yeah, there was a nice- Recently?
Guest:Yeah, recently.
Guest:We went to a nice hotel and they had a nice gym.
Guest:And then we got the nice coffee.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The blue bottle coffee.
Marc:Oh, yeah, sure.
Marc:You walked down there?
Guest:We got the pour over.
Guest:Yeah, we walked down there.
Guest:The blue bottle, yeah.
Guest:And then we walked around.
Guest:I sat in some vomit by accident.
Guest:No, you did not.
Guest:I did, yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's a very San Francisco thing to do.
Yeah.
Guest:And then we walked around some more.
Guest:We saw a movie.
Guest:It was like what you do in Albuquerque, probably.
Marc:Same shit.
Marc:That's what I do with my dad.
Marc:I took him to see a movie.
Marc:But he's starting to lose his mind.
Marc:So it gets more interesting because it's sort of like, did we see the movie?
Marc:We just saw it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But yeah, that's what you do.
Marc:But for some reason, whatever I'm nostalgic for, it just hit me the last time I went.
Marc:I can't move here.
Marc:What the fuck am I going to do here?
Marc:I get like, cause I want to buy a nice place and I want to have some peace of mind, you know, or, and just have like that thing, that feeling, whatever the fuck that was.
Marc:Oh, you mean when you were in high school, you want to have that feeling?
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:Good and bad.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:Middle school is much tougher than high school, I think in a way, but it depends when the high school you went to, I guess.
Marc:Well, no, it's just the feeling of everything's still ahead of you.
Guest:Everything's still ahead of you.
Guest:You're not going to have that fucking feeling if you move there.
Guest:No.
Marc:No, you're going to sit there and go like, oh, it's all gone.
Marc:It's all behind me now.
Marc:Yeah, and I don't have any friends here.
Marc:Well, I have one or two friends here, but you can't go for the friends.
Marc:No.
Guest:But I mean, at least you have friends in L.A.
Guest:and New York, right?
Marc:I guess.
Marc:Do you have friends in L.A.
Marc:and New York?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I got people in New York.
Marc:I went to see the show with Sam Whipsight, who's a writer, and him and I are very close friends.
Marc:I got a few friends here, sure.
Marc:I got a few friends here.
Marc:How many do you need, though?
Guest:But Albuquerque, how many do you need?
Guest:That's a good question.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Well, I used to do a joke about that.
Marc:I said you need two.
Marc:You need the main guy and the guy you go to when you drain the main guy.
Yeah.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Because you got to drain the main guy.
Marc:Are you tired?
Marc:I'll call you a guy.
Marc:I'll call the other guy.
Marc:I can talk to him.
Marc:It's true.
Guest:It's very true.
Marc:But yeah, no, I got five.
Guest:You got five?
Guest:Five or six that I've drank already.
Guest:Backups?
Guest:Backups, yeah.
Marc:What are those calls like?
Marc:Fuck.
Guest:Well, I'll tell you, Billy and Richard are tired.
Guest:They're drained.
Marc:Oh, from American Buffalo?
Guest:They're drained from Buffalo, let me tell you.
Marc:So every project, you got to pick a couple of guys.
Marc:Yeah, they're drained.
Guest:I'm going to be calling Sigourney soon, and it's too much.
Marc:But so when does the theater start legitimately?
Marc:So you do the Meisner thing, but when do you start really doing it?
Guest:Well, you know, I started really doing it, doing Off-Broadway and stuff.
Guest:And then, like I said, Phil directed us.
Marc:Phil, that's right.
Guest:And then, you know, he taught me a lot about stage acting.
Guest:Phil did?
Marc:Aren't you guys the same age?
Guest:Yeah, pretty much, yeah.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:I mean, you and I talked about him, I think, before.
Marc:I think a bit, yeah.
Guest:But, you know, I'm friendly with his family, and he was a beautiful... He was a guy I was kind of obsessed with.
Guest:I was listening to one of your podcasts.
Guest:Andrew Garfield said some nice things about Ryan Gosling, and I thought that was really generous and cool because I was... You know, I have...
Guest:You know, I have that feeling about other actors and feeling like, you know, just feeling like you're in this... Instead of being competitive and weird, you know?
Guest:And I think when I saw Phil, I was...
Guest:You know, everything.
Guest:I was envious of his talent.
Guest:I was really... I was obsessed with him.
Guest:Then we became friends, and he just taught me a lot about it, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's how you learn, I guess.
Guest:Yeah, I guess so, you know?
Marc:Well, I mean...
Marc:How else can you do it?
Guest:Did you have comedian friends like that that you were inspired by and then you were maybe jealous and then you let it go and you became friends and you were competitive and then it went away?
Marc:I don't know that jealousy ever goes.
Marc:I think it submerges.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But is there a difference between envy and jealousy?
Guest:Do you think there's a healthy amount of competitive stuff where you get inspired by that person like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson kind of competitive?
Marc:You're always impressed with people, sure.
Marc:And I think envy is right.
Marc:The weird thing about that stuff now is it happens now.
Marc:It's like, because it still happens.
Marc:We're human.
Marc:You still get jealous of people.
Marc:But what happens to me now is like, I don't want what that guy has.
Marc:I couldn't do that.
Marc:Whatever the fuck I'm jealous of, it's not because I want it.
Marc:It's just because, you know, I wish I was something different in a moment.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Well, I think about, like, with Buffalo, like...
Guest:If I thought there was negotiations and we're trying to figure out what was gonna happen, eight shows a week, seven shows a week, and at one point, you gotta pull the trigger, and I'm thinking, well, do I wanna, am I gonna see, am I gonna read the paper and Oscar's doing it or Liev's doing it, am I gonna be pissed?
Guest:And the answer is, yeah, I'm gonna be pissed.
Guest:You know, because they're good actors.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't want to see them.
Guest:You know, no, I got to do it.
Guest:You got an Oscar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, so what?
Guest:That means something.
Guest:That does mean something.
Guest:No, it does mean something.
Guest:It does mean something.
Guest:But, you know, with theater, it's it's it's a different ballgame.
Marc:You know, it's like the I feel like for some reason we have would be very competitive.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I mean, you'd be crazy not to be competitive and be an actor.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That's the point.
Guest:I think that... What I'm saying, I guess there's a healthy amount of competitive energy.
Guest:And I think of that documentary with Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.
Marc:You ever see that?
Guest:The 30-30 or whatever?
Guest:I didn't see it.
Guest:It's really good.
Guest:Anyway.
Marc:But with that, with physical stuff...
Marc:It's like you're talking about shots.
Marc:You're talking about jumping.
Guest:It's like either one guy's going to make the finish line or not.
Marc:Right.
Marc:With acting, there's no sort of ambiguity.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's not math.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's like he made this many shots.
Marc:He's the best.
Guest:Steve Zahn's funnier than Jack Black.
Guest:You can't make that comparison.
Guest:It's apples and oranges.
Marc:Yeah, but our brains want to do that.
Marc:But the weird thing about actors, everyone's going to approach it differently.
Marc:But I mean, I think the other thing about that, though, is like there's a like with acting, there's a lot more people who suck working with pro ball.
Marc:Why are they still that guy who sucks on the team?
Guest:This is well, you know, yeah.
Guest:Acting was more like, you know, boxing.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Be a lot of knockouts.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I'm not saying I'm not even sucks necessarily.
Marc:There's it seems like there's plenty of work.
Guest:For even your mildly talented.
Guest:There's a lack of training, let's say.
Marc:I've kind of shifted on this back and forth.
Guest:There are guys- Well, tell me, because now you're doing a lot of acting.
Guest:What do you think about that?
Guest:Do you think acting training is bullshit?
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I think it's amazing.
Marc:Because I think it's not like anything.
Marc:It's not what I dedicated my life to.
Marc:I'm a performer, and I always wanted to act.
Marc:And I think that I can do some things well naturally.
Marc:And whatever mild or minor training I had when I was younger, you're going to learn on the job eventually.
Marc:And if you have talent and, you know, you listen to people and you work with great people, you're going to learn.
Marc:But, you know, whatever devices anyone seems to cobble together tools for acting is really a crap.
Marc:It's a personal preference.
Marc:That's why it's so hard to talk about craft.
Marc:I remember I had Paul Dano in here, and I was like, do you do animal work?
Marc:He's like, I do.
Marc:I was kind of half kidding, but why not do a little animal work?
Marc:If that's what gets you there, you want to be a penguin for an hour?
Marc:Knock yourself out.
Guest:Listen, Brando did it.
Guest:Did he?
Guest:Sure, he went to the zoo and watched animals when he was doing Stanley Kowalski, watched gorillas or something.
Marc:Have you done a little animal work?
Guest:I don't know if I've done animal work, but I would do it.
Guest:You don't know if you've done it, but maybe you have.
Guest:Maybe I have, but I would do it is the point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would do it.
Marc:So I think obviously learning is important, but I do think as I talk to people that if you mix craft with incredible natural charisma and natural talent, you're an undeniable force.
Marc:But can you get by with charisma and talent and the ability to listen?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You can.
Guest:Of course you can.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, it's, I don't know.
Guest:Is it going to catch up to you?
Guest:I mean, there's exceptions.
Marc:Well, I think it's like, what do you want to make it to yourself?
Marc:I believe that there are some people that get into stand-up and into acting specifically because they do not want to be in the real world.
Marc:They don't want a fucking job.
Marc:They don't want that fucking life.
Marc:And they like attention from women or whatever.
Marc:So I think there is a type of person who just is sort of like, you know, can get away with it.
Marc:And sometimes they're great, but the intention was not to be an artist.
Marc:It was not to work, not to be in that world.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, what do you think of that?
Marc:It's okay with me.
Marc:It's better than being a preacher, but it's a similar zone.
Marc:Whatever you're going to do, whether it's a musician, a juggler, you want to be a minister of some kind, you want to be an actor, it's all show business.
Guest:Yeah, but don't you feel like with the work ethic that you have being a stand-up, I mean, you guys work hard.
Marc:That's hard work.
Marc:Yeah, and also, I was an aggravated person, and I didn't see any other way to have a life.
Guest:You said something that I relate to.
Guest:There's no plan B, which I relate to.
Guest:I didn't have a plan B.
Marc:no I'd be pumping gas I don't have any fucking skills yeah well I mean but weirdly I think that's I don't have one either but like you know you're a talented guy with a pretty good head on his shoulders I doubt you'd be pumping gas but the fact is you didn't but I don't have any skills sure but you can learn how to work at a restaurant
Guest:Yeah, I'd worked at restaurants.
Guest:I worked at a lot of restaurants.
Marc:That was always my go to is like, you know, like when was the last job I had in college?
Marc:I'd flipped eggs.
Marc:I guess I could go see if I could get that.
Marc:Go back to that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Listen, but no, but like I'm not I'm not trying to to diminish the work because you asked me.
Marc:about acting, for me, I find that in order to make it interesting, that I'm going to have to do the work.
Marc:Because for me, sitting around in a fucking trailer for 12 hours is a nightmare.
Marc:And I don't care how many times I'm supposed to read the script.
Marc:You told me you read the script like 10 times.
Marc:So I started to do that.
Guest:I know, like 100 times.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:So I started to do that, and I'm like, this is not going to work for me, the reading the script 100 times.
Guest:No, that's not entirely true.
Guest:I listen to it.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:I record it.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And I listen to it because I'm more audio.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Eddie Marsden, I was talking about this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I listen to it.
Guest:In fact, Eddie Marsden taped my lines.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For this movie.
Guest:I see how they run.
Guest:Eddie's that guy that I met?
Guest:Eddie Marsden is a great actor.
Guest:He's been in a lot of Mike Lee movies.
Guest:He's a fucking fan.
Guest:He was in Ray Donovan.
Guest:He's a fucking fantastic.
Guest:Look him up.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:And Martin Friedman taped a couple vowel sounds for me too because we worked together.
Guest:But the point is I listen to my shit.
Guest:I listen to my script a lot.
Guest:So this is for the English movie?
Guest:Yeah, but I listen to shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm more visual audio oriented.
Marc:But like I was doing everything that I knew to do in that Two Leslie movie.
Marc:I talked to you about this when we were doing Bad Guys where I had to do the Texas.
Marc:The Texas.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I'm playing opposite Andrea Riceboro.
Guest:And you saw Liz Himmelstein, right?
Guest:You saw a dialect coach.
Marc:I did.
Marc:Yeah, that's great.
Marc:Yeah, she made me watch Mac Davis videos for the Lubbock accent.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:Liz would do... Liz, yeah.
Marc:It's so funny because she's like, we're going to do Lubbock.
Marc:I'm like, I don't even know what that means.
Marc:She goes, here, I sent you some videos and I'm watching Mac Davis interviews.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Because he's from Lubbock.
Guest:Fucking Mac, North Dallas 40, man.
Guest:The best.
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:There is not a day that goes by where I don't think about Nick Nolte waking up that morning and just cracking his fucking back.
Marc:Like every day I wake up, it's like Nick Nolte in North Dallas 40.
Marc:Smoking.
Marc:Oh my God, I love that movie.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:It's an amazing movie.
Guest:Liz is the best, man.
Guest:She helped me with Three Billboards.
Guest:She helped me with this movie.
Guest:I had two dialect coaches in this movie, but she... Liz... She got you this Southern thing going?
Guest:She got me the two cops.
Guest:We taped two cops for Three Billboards.
Guest:One of them didn't have a strong enough, because Martin McDonough wanted to...
Guest:He didn't really want an accent.
Guest:I said, well, we need a slight one.
Guest:So Liz found these two cops, and then I ended up doing a couple ride-alongs with the second cop, and he put some ad-libs in there and used some of the stuff that ended up in the film.
Guest:And Liz found these guys.
Guest:They're very helpful.
Guest:She's very helpful.
Marc:I was able to put on paper sort of the tricks of pronunciation.
Marc:So what I would use to get into that accent is there'd be a series of things I could say
Marc:to kind of prime myself the way vowels work.
Guest:To open up, to get your mouth going.
Marc:Yeah, into that zone.
Marc:And then I could sort of, she gave me a fairly full thing.
Marc:If you've got a question like, how would that word, how do I say that word?
Marc:And you could do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's like dynamic stretching for your mouth.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But also just to hear your sound, too.
Marc:Because, you know, like if you know, boy, you know, like there's, you have to see that thing.
Marc:Boy, toy, koi.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Phonetically spelled out.
Marc:But to answer your question, though, like what I started to think about acting, and not that I know much...
Marc:I want to try to make it satisfying for me to be on camera for four minutes at a time and be done with all the angles of the four minutes at a time or three minutes at a time and be like, wow, that was great.
Marc:I want to feel that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because with movie acting, maybe you'll feel great when you see a whole cut, but by the time you shoot it out, I just didn't know how to make it satisfying in the moment.
Yeah.
Marc:So I had to focus on that.
Guest:So that you could forget about the dialect and feel spontaneous?
Marc:Well, just forget about I just spent 10 hours in a fucking trailer going like, what could they be doing?
Guest:And then get your head in the game once they go rolling.
Marc:And then it's like after 10 hours, you're like, all right, your scene's up.
Marc:And then it's like you're there for like 15 minutes and you're like, we got it.
Marc:And like, that was it?
Marc:The whole fucking day?
Marc:So how does that 15 minutes become worth it?
Marc:That's my question.
Marc:That's a good question.
Guest:Well, that's what I'm working towards.
Guest:Yeah, that's hard, right?
Guest:What's the stuff that you're happiest with on film that you feel like?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I think I did good in GLOW, and I think that I made choices.
Marc:And I think my own show, I learned how to be on camera on that show, so the first two seasons were okay, but I had to figure out how to be on a set.
Marc:I'm still not clear on where my camera is.
Marc:It's a nightmare.
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, is it though?
Guest:Maybe you shouldn't know where the fucking camera is.
Marc:It's always annoying.
Guest:I don't know if I want to know where the camera is.
Marc:But maybe you must innately know by now.
Guest:I mean, you do, obviously.
Guest:You want to be in the frame.
Guest:You want to see the lens because you want to be in the frame, obviously.
Guest:But you know what I'm saying?
Guest:Like, I don't want to be too aware.
Marc:There are times where I've gone all in and I'm like, am I even in the shot?
Marc:And they're like, no, no, you're just... Yeah.
Guest:If you can't see the lens, it can't see you.
Guest:Is that the...
Marc:But I can't get out from under the thing where people are like, you know, you're always kind of playing yourself.
Marc:Am I, though?
Marc:I don't think I am.
Guest:Yeah, that's a bunch of horseshit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But everybody's playing themselves.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And even the great Meryl Streep, Robert Duvall.
Guest:They're all in there.
Guest:They're all in.
Guest:Hopefully, you are playing yourself.
Guest:Yeah, you're playing a version of yourself.
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:Meryl Streep's doing something with her control panel that I don't understand.
Guest:She's a phenomenon.
Guest:What is that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:She's like...
Guest:Yeah, forget it.
Guest:Have you worked with her?
Guest:No, I've met her.
Guest:I mean, you know, she's like a phenomenon.
Marc:I don't know what to say.
Guest:Meryl Streep is kind of the pinnacle.
Marc:It kind of is, but there's nothing you can do to be that.
Marc:Because, like, whatever the fuck it is.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I'm sure she works very hard, but it seems like it's just so easy for her.
Marc:It's crazy, man.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, her ear is incredible.
Guest:She's got an amazing ear.
Marc:All you can do after a certain point, though, is this true?
Marc:It's sort of like when you look at the director and you go, do you get what you want?
Marc:And when they look at you and go, yeah, and you believe him, that's all you can do.
Guest:That's all you can really do.
Guest:You've got to sort of trust how much you can do.
Guest:That's why you go do theater or stand-up,
Marc:But do you walk away from a film role going like, oh, that was great?
Marc:No.
Marc:Like billboards where you're like, this is the best thing I ever did, no doubt.
Guest:You feel good, but you feel good, but you don't know for sure.
Guest:You're not in control.
Guest:I mean, that's why you go do theater, live performance, because you feel like you have a little control.
Marc:Well, that's the other thing.
Marc:Then it's a satisfying gig.
Marc:It's not like these five-minute increments where you're like, did I have my accent on that one?
Marc:Did anyone check?
Marc:No, exactly.
Guest:No, exactly.
Marc:And then you watch it and you're like, no, how come no one told me I did my accent on that take?
Guest:I know, that's why you gotta get Liz on the set.
Marc:Well, no, she wasn't on the set, but there was a guy on Respect when I played Wexler.
Marc:But you know what gave me courage?
Marc:Was I watched James Caan
Marc:real old james conn like he was uh he was doing that rain people did you ever see rain people yeah that's for way that's coppola that's way back right right and he plays like this you know brain injured ex-football player you know college football player you know he was like the guy with the broom on the campus right i've never seen that right but he does do an accent and i'm and i'm watching him and i just talked to him it wasn't good
Marc:Well, he was in and out.
Marc:And if you watch a lot of real movie stars do accents, it comes and goes, but who cares?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I think that the rule should be you never want to agree to the Boston accent.
Guest:I've done the Boston.
Guest:I did it with Liz.
Guest:And it's a tough one.
Marc:Which movie was it?
Guest:I did a movie with Hilary Swank called Conviction.
Guest:Tony Goldman directed it.
Guest:And it's a tough accent.
Marc:Easy to make look stupid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Absolutely, you gotta be real careful.
Guest:Just like the English accent, you gotta be really fucking careful.
Marc:I thought you made a good choice in this new movie.
Marc:Thanks, yeah.
Marc:You went subtle.
Marc:You didn't bust, you didn't go over the top.
Guest:You kept it mild.
Guest:Very careful.
Guest:I'd done it in theater, but I hadn't done it on film.
Guest:I was very nervous about it, yeah.
Guest:It takes a village.
Guest:Yeah, but no, you know, I mean, the thing about that, you know, the thing about you saying, you know, what I love about acting is like, if you are, like with Teach, it didn't matter, and American Buffalo, it's like, if I was neurotic,
Guest:Actually, the worse my day was going, the better the performance was.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:The guys worked up.
Guest:The guys worked up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So a lot of times, if I was having a really rough day and I felt kind of out of sorts and shaky, it was good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:You know, the more neurotic I was.
Guest:And those are great roles because you can kind of like- Oh, yeah.
Guest:You can just put it on stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it doesn't matter what's going on.
Guest:You can just vomit it on stage.
Marc:Yeah, because you load it up, you know?
Marc:You load it up, man.
Marc:You can just dump it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a weird thing with stand-up, too.
Marc:It's like sometimes I like to sort of step back and kind of just like see how the words work.
Marc:But other times, like if I'm lit up-
Marc:I can fucking do whatever I want.
Marc:And the emotion kind of drives the routine.
Marc:You want to try and be funny, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but if I'm angry, sometimes it's pretty good.
Guest:Does it get Sam Kinison a little bit?
Guest:No, no.
Marc:I mean, not that extreme, but does it... No, I mean, I can get kind of, yeah, angry and righteous.
Marc:And that's fun.
Marc:It's okay, yeah.
Marc:It's usually misdirected, but that's okay.
No.
Guest:As long as it's funny.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Something dangerous.
Marc:Something happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But but like so when you won like, OK, well, the question is in billboards.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You it seemed to me that part.
Marc:And this is just my assumption about, you know, going back to what we were talking about and how you can't really escape yourself is that, you know, you just had to turn some things off.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:I mean, you had to focus that character in the sense that like, you know, this was not Sam, right?
Marc:And this guy is from a different world and a different mindset.
Marc:So I've got to sort of like, you know, turn all this Sam off to make room for this guy.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:I don't know about that.
Guest:I don't know if it's turning Sam off.
Guest:It's more like turning parts of Sam on.
Guest:Huh.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:And filtering through.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:Different Sam-isms.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it's not like...
Guest:Yeah, I mean, the guy's kind of an asshole, so I don't think I'm an asshole.
Guest:But he's also not terribly bright.
Guest:No, he's not.
Guest:And that's a hard thing to act sometimes.
Guest:And I think the only way to act that is to kind of be, is to process things slowly.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:This is liquid death, so it's mountain.
Guest:Does that mean it's from the mountains?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Just process things slower, and then I think it comes off as if you're not as bright.
Guest:But there's the accent, and then I worked on it with my acting coach.
Guest:There was one session I was doing with my coach, Terry Knickerbocker,
Guest:I stuttered on the word mama, because he's a mama's boy.
Guest:And he said, do that again.
Guest:And I said, do what again?
Guest:He says, you stammered when you said mama.
Guest:You went ma-ma-ma.
Guest:And I went, really, I did?
Guest:He's like, yeah, yeah, do it again, do it again.
Guest:And I go, okay, yeah, so ma-ma-ma-ma-ma-ma-ma-ma.
Guest:And then it just became a thing.
Guest:And it was this great thing for the character.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:That he's got this weird Oedipal kind of fucked up thing.
Marc:So he just folded that in.
Guest:And just folded that in.
Guest:And that was just a nice thing.
Guest:I mean, there was one time way, way back, my coach said, why don't you sing that line?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, what do you mean?
Guest:Like as an exercise?
Guest:He said, no, no, on the day, I think you should sing it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, you're out of your fucking mind.
Guest:He's like, no, no, try it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I did.
Guest:It's in the movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I sang the line.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So sometimes it's the way, way back.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Suggestions.
Guest:Choices that are outside the box a little, you know.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It takes a village.
Guest:I think you need help.
Guest:I need help.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, but it's because you can't like you can make choices for yourself.
Marc:But if you want, you know, if you I like when people suggest shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because when someone goes, can you just do it like that?
Marc:I'm like, yeah, absolutely.
Marc:I'll do it like that.
Marc:I'm not one of these people that's like- No, man.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's like, here's what, I want you to be a little more self-conscious.
Marc:I'm like, no problem.
Marc:I can take a note, boom, right away.
Marc:I'm like, yes, I'll do it.
Marc:Fuck yeah.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:I don't care who it comes from.
Guest:Matt Damon was talking about that.
Guest:He said he got it from Bono when a song walks in the room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said that's kind of like when an idea walks in the room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It doesn't matter who it's from.
Guest:If an idea walks in the room, you better pay attention.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And take it from anybody.
Marc:Well, I mean, comedy's a little different because you always got people that's sort of like, hey, can I give you a tag?
Marc:I'm like, what?
Guest:What does that mean, a joke?
Marc:Like a punchline.
Marc:Like if you have a joke and a comic will want to give you a little punchline or something to make it better.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:But you're not asking for it.
Guest:They're suggesting.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:They're just like, can I tag?
Marc:And I'm like, okay, what is it?
Marc:I'm like, I don't know if that's really for me.
Marc:but like some guy like one guy tagged a joke and it's one of the best tags i got yeah no shit well like i was doing this thing like uh like i do this setup but there's a bit in this joke where i go like you know if you got a bat if you're gonna hit a guy with a bat yeah you know you better have hit a guy with a bat before
Marc:Because I'm talking about, not only could I not shoot a guy with a gun, I don't think I hit a guy with a bat.
Marc:So that was what I had.
Marc:And then this guy, Brian Scalero, who's very funny, goes, you know what you should say?
Marc:She said, you should say, because you'll probably end up getting hit with your own bat.
Marc:That's great, man.
Marc:It is great.
Marc:And he's just, that's very generous of him.
Marc:Yeah, I mean.
Marc:To give you a tag.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I like when people give me tags.
Marc:It doesn't happen too often.
Guest:That's what I'm talking about.
Guest:Calling Richard Jenkins or Billy or, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, what do you think of this?
Marc:But you got to trust the cat, right?
Guest:You got to trust the cat for sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You got to feel safe.
Marc:So the Oscar thing, I haven't talked to you in a long time.
Marc:I mean, the last time we've been on the mics was 2016.
Marc:So a lot of stuff has happened.
Marc:For bad guys?
Marc:No, no, this is when I interviewed.
Marc:Oh, when we interviewed, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I mean, I've seen you, obviously, because we worked together, and you were very helpful during my grieving period, and we talked a lot during then.
Marc:And she loved you.
Marc:She was amazing.
Marc:Because you work with her.
Marc:But I wasn't around when he got that Oscar.
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:That was a few years ago.
Marc:Now, be honest with me.
Marc:Was there a campaign for it?
Guest:Well, there's always a campaign for any of those things.
Guest:How does that work?
Guest:Well, you hire a publicist sometimes to keep press at bay.
Guest:You're not always trying to get press.
Guest:Sometimes you're trying to keep it away.
Guest:That's sometimes the publicist for somebody, I imagine somebody like Sean Penn or Tom Cruise or somebody, they're going to want to do less press.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so they're going to hire a publicist to keep it away.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I think with something like that, you go, okay, you don't know if the movie's going to hit.
Guest:We saw the movie like, this is good.
Guest:I don't know if anybody's going to dig it.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then we go to Venice and all of a sudden it's a standing ovation and we're like, what the fuck is going on?
Guest:So then you're like, oh, you smell the scent.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And you're like, oh, this could go, as Frances McDormand said, this could go to the convention.
Guest:She said, we're going to go to the convention.
Guest:You know that, right?
Guest:The convention.
Guest:And I said, yeah, I guess maybe you're right.
Marc:Maybe we're going to the convention.
Guest:She's amazing.
Guest:She's amazing.
Marc:It was so funny because I saw her at the People's Choice Awards.
Marc:And I've always wanted to have her on the show, but I've never been able to get her, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And...
Marc:And she saw me and I introduced myself.
Marc:You were there.
Marc:It was at the Screen Actors Guild Awards a few years ago.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I don't know if it was for that movie.
Marc:Maybe it was for that movie.
Marc:I was up for a glow.
Marc:Yeah, it was either that or, yeah, it must have been that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So she comes up to me.
Marc:She's like, oh, I love you.
Marc:And I'm like, you know me?
Marc:I want you to do my show.
Marc:She's like, I don't know.
Marc:I love you on GLOW.
Marc:It was on GLOW.
Marc:That's awesome.
Marc:So she loved me as an actor.
Marc:I'm like, oh, that's even better.
Guest:And she didn't know about your podcast.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Frances is unconventional.
Guest:She's so cool.
Marc:That's a whole different game, right?
Marc:You work with her so much.
Marc:We talk about Meryl Streep, but she's another one, just a pinnacle, but totally different.
Guest:Totally different.
Guest:Yeah, totally different.
Marc:A total different quality and a different approach and different skill set.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Badass.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, badass.
Marc:Both of them.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So the Oscar.
Marc:So you got the publicist.
Guest:So yeah, you know, you got people who are in the know and you're trying to get this movie...
Guest:Like I'm trying to pump this movie, right?
Guest:You're trying to get this movie some attention, and you know you did good work in it, right?
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And you know Francis did good work.
Guest:You got a good movie here.
Guest:Martin kicked its ass.
Guest:And so you want people to pay attention to it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So the Oscar would only help that to people to see the fucking movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:it stands to reason you're going to pump the movie as much as you can.
Guest:Everybody is.
Guest:Yeah, you want to make it, you want people to see it.
Guest:You're proud of it.
Marc:You're proud of it.
Marc:So initially, you know, it's sort of like about the movie.
Marc:And then as the movie gets more attention, you're sort of like, I kind of want one.
Marc:Maybe can we get me one?
Guest:Listen, nobody's going to be mad at an Oscar.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Except Marlon Brando.
Guest:Except Marlon Brando.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Apparently.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And a couple other people.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, you know, it's cool, man.
Guest:It's a cool thing to have.
Guest:And it's cool.
Guest:It's definitely like.
Guest:Does it change to anything?
Guest:You know, it can change things in negotiations.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you always work.
Guest:Yeah, it's not going to change that much.
Guest:I mean, it is what it is, but I think it depends on the person and what you do with it.
Guest:I think Chris Walken said, this is a house when he got the Oscar.
Guest:He's like, this is a house.
Guest:Meaning, yeah, it's going to pay for a house.
Guest:And that's what it was.
Guest:So it's what you make of it.
Guest:Did you get a house?
Guest:I think it helped me get American Buffalo, maybe.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Oh, you would have gotten that.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe...
Marc:But you've always been a guy.
Marc:I mean, that's the thing about even before the Oscars, you're a guy.
Marc:I've done well.
Guest:I've done very well.
Marc:I like that.
Marc:I saw that Richard Jewell movie.
Marc:Did anyone else?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, people eventually did see it.
Guest:Initially, not so much.
Guest:But that's my whole career is afterthought.
Marc:I like that movie, though.
Guest:Except for Bad Guys.
Guest:Bad Guys was a hit, man.
Guest:Dude, that was crazy.
Guest:Dude, we had a hit movie, bro.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Big movie.
Guest:I think there might be a little sequel.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Have they reached out?
Marc:they they're definitely talking about no i know they're talking about it but that would be hot here's what i'm thinking i'm like did you get a call and they're like don't just don't tell mark we're not we're not sure about the snake we're not sure we're not we're not sure but the snake's gonna be a jacket i i couldn't i never i don't understand it snake boots yeah yeah yeah he's only in for half he's just at the beginning he dies at the beginning don't tell mark he's gonna he's gonna be yeah the boots yeah but a great lizard for you yeah
Marc:But I have no idea with animated.
Marc:It's funny because, I mean, when you do it, it took us forever.
Guest:I mean, it's a tedious process for sure.
Marc:But we were both in COVID and I was like in pain and we were both like doing these different things.
Marc:But we actually got to do something that hardly ever happens.
Marc:We worked, we did that shit together.
Marc:And I think it made a big difference.
Guest:It made a huge fucking difference.
Guest:And then once we were, I worked with Awkwafina.
Guest:I don't know if you got to work with her.
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:And then we had my friend, Mike Goddard was helping us read stuff.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And he does a lot of voices.
Guest:And I think that was vital that you and I work together because we play best friends in the thing.
Guest:It's like, if you don't, it would have been ridiculous.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And we were riffing.
Guest:And Zazie, I worked with Zazie, but I think even that was remote.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:We took the chance, we got tested up, and there was a couple of times where they'd just have us go, and we just did that stuff.
Marc:Because you get that casualness to it.
Guest:Yeah, and the overlapping dialogue, like this, was really important.
Marc:But it's like, everybody in that movie, here's the thing about...
Marc:All of my animated characters, aside from Lex Luthor in Super Pets, it's another thing where they had me in.
Marc:I had no idea the scope of that movie or what it was going to be.
Marc:But I'm like Lex Luthor in Super Pets.
Guest:That's amazing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But to me, it was a thing.
Marc:I used to go into this place.
Marc:I'd talk into a mic.
Guest:Is that the one with The Rock and Kevin Hart?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it just came out.
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Guest:I got to watch that.
Guest:I got to watch that.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know that I've seen the whole thing yet.
Marc:But you're doing Sam.
Marc:You're just sort of being cool.
Marc:And I'm like, yeah!
Marc:Why am I the guy that made the choice to do a voice that's going to shred my vocal cords?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I guess I was hard on your vocal cords.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you were doing kind of like the curmudgeoning Walter Matthau guy.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think it fit because the kids love it.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Marc:I mean, are you getting that kind of feedback?
Marc:They love it.
Guest:No, they're flipping out.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Like what's happening for you with the kids?
Guest:I got a couple of friends.
Guest:They had kids.
Guest:They went and saw it and they loved it.
Guest:They loved it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was a lot of fun, man.
Marc:My buddy, my producer, my business partner, he's got a kid that knew you from another movie.
Guest:Oh yeah, another animated movie.
Marc:Yeah, from the one and only Ivan.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:And he recognized it like immediately.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah, we had a lot of fun with that.
Marc:With the Ivan movie?
Guest:Yeah, I got to hang out with Danny DeVito a lot.
Guest:Oh, that's funny.
Guest:That was really fun.
Marc:I was kind of doing Danny DeVito as Snake.
Guest:You were kind of doing Taxi Danny DeVito.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Now that I think about it.
Marc:Yeah, totally.
Marc:But, like, I was completely amazed.
Marc:Because, you know, you do that thing and it goes on a while and then you never see a script.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Occasionally you'll see, like, some black and white drawings and be like, what's happening?
Guest:I know.
Marc:And then a year or two.
Guest:And you don't know what the hell's going on.
Guest:It's out of context.
Guest:And you're like, what are we doing again?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you see the whole movie where we're all like, holy shit.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And it was like we were number one at the box office.
Marc:We were number one for weeks.
Guest:It's a nice feeling.
Guest:It's a nice feeling to finally have one of those kind of like, I don't know the last time I've had something like that.
Marc:Do you know how much movies made?
Marc:Like $150 million or something.
Guest:It's fucking great.
Guest:It's awesome.
Guest:Are we going to see any of that?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:The sequel.
Marc:The back end on those things is sort of like, yeah, when it makes a half a billion dollars, everybody's going to get it.
Guest:The bonuses come when you're dead.
Marc:Everyone's going to get a piece of two billion.
Guest:Yeah, man.
Marc:I'd like to do another one.
Marc:It was fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you ever do F's for Family with Bill?
Marc:No.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, you do that all the time, huh?
Guest:We did that for, yeah, for five years.
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:It was a lot of fun.
Guest:You could curse and shit.
Marc:I remember.
Guest:You could say anything on that.
Guest:That was amazing.
Marc:Me and Bill just fight in real life.
Marc:You fight in real life?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:What do you guys fight about?
Marc:I don't fucking know.
Marc:Anything fun?
Marc:Aesthetic?
Marc:He, no.
Marc:He just like, you know, for some reason, he decides immediately when he sees me, he's like, oh, here we go.
Marc:You know, I'm like, what is, what is, what's happening?
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:He tells us.
Guest:I think you guys would be a good pair.
Marc:I'd like to see a movie with that pair.
Marc:The only thing we argue about is sort of like, not even politics really, but just sort of like cancel culture stuff.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You know, like, you know, he's like, you know, they can't.
Marc:And I'm like, you know, well, just take it.
Marc:But we got into a yeller, man.
Marc:We got into a yeller.
Marc:No shit.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:And I'm like, well, what the fuck do you want me to do?
Marc:He's like, stop fucking yelling at me.
Marc:And I'm like, you're yelling at one of those things.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And we're in the dressing room at the comedy store, and it's just one of these.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:There's other people there.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And there's a standoff.
Marc:And I'm like, what are we doing?
Marc:What are we going to do?
Marc:Because I don't think either of us are hitting each other.
Guest:Has he been on the show?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Years ago.
Marc:Years ago.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But I don't know, we were up in... I think that's nice, a little creative conflict, maybe.
Marc:I don't know, just conflict.
Marc:He's one of those guys, because of how he grew up, you could probably see it in that show, where he had a dad that was a fucking anger guy.
Marc:And I used to be this way.
Marc:It's a very weird thing.
Guest:He's admittedly very angry.
Marc:But to be the dude...
Marc:who rages you know well it's on stage is one thing but when you're out in the world and you're like you know well bill talks about that yeah of course personal as a handicap yeah he talks I mean I do it too but the the liability of it is is that most of those guys when they're done they're gonna be like hey buddy I you know I'm sorry yeah and it's like okay so you had your arc and now you've landed and you're sorry but like you made a fucking mess bro yeah
Marc:I mean, that's just a personal experience.
Marc:Obviously, we're comics, and it took me a minute.
Marc:But I did go through a few months where I'm like, fuck it, I'm done with that shit.
Guest:So that was a backstage thing.
Marc:Yeah, and I'm like, I'm done with that shit.
Marc:Fuck this shit.
Marc:I'm not going to deal with that guy like that.
Marc:That was fucking uncalled for.
Marc:And we were both doing it.
Marc:But then I saw him in Montreal, and I'm like, hey, you all right?
Marc:Yeah, I'm all right.
Marc:You guys are cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Marc:We're a bunch of fucking gypsy weirdos.
Guest:Yeah, I feel like I've had that too with somebody, like an actor, but I can't think of who.
Marc:It's weird when those emotions come up.
Marc:It is weird.
Marc:Once you do that in any kind of relationship, it's never going to be the same because you've just unleashed that thing.
Marc:So whatever you were respecting before, that's fucked up.
Marc:I've done it in regular relationships with women or whatever, where you have that one fight where you're like, uh-oh.
Marc:That might not get back normal for a lifetime.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've had those.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Whether you're young or crazy or just mad or you feel, you know, fucked with, that's usually what it is.
Marc:It's like, what do you mean?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:What are you saying?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I know, that's...
Marc:How's your relationship, good?
Guest:It's good, we're doing great.
Guest:15 years.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:15 years, yeah.
Marc:And did you, you're mostly in New York?
Guest:In New York, and we're here now because she's here doing a show.
Guest:LA's an interesting experience.
Marc:What are you feeling now?
Guest:What do you do around Glendale, man?
Marc:I love fucking Glendale.
Marc:So where do you go?
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:For everything?
Marc:I tend to, like, I'm literally three blocks away from Ralph's, Armenian Ralph's, I call it.
Marc:Armenian Ralph's?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's some old school shit going over there.
Guest:Is Carl Malden there?
Marc:No, but there's definitely two tables out front, one for the old men and one for the old ladies, just to give stink eye to the intruders, you know?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:There's that slight feeling of Queens that I like.
Marc:And they don't have, they have some things they just don't have there.
Marc:And then there's a Vons.
Marc:I judge my life by where I can go shop for food.
Marc:There's a Vons, five minutes.
Marc:Whole Foods, five minutes.
Guest:You got a blue bottle of coffee right here?
Guest:No, I don't care about that.
Guest:I make all my own coffee.
Guest:You make your own coffee, yeah.
Guest:You're a good coffee game, I imagine.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I do most of my own cooking.
Marc:But they have great Persian food out here.
Marc:But I got Fish King, a real fish market close by.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:You're a big cook.
Marc:You cook the fish and do the thing.
Marc:Yeah, I like it.
Guest:You like salt the fish, right?
Marc:I was smoking some sable for a while, but I gave that up.
Guest:That sounds hard.
Marc:It wasn't that hard.
Marc:I got like a suburban smoker out there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm going to cook a chicken later.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm five minutes away from the Americana.
Marc:I got everything I need here.
Marc:And it's like I can get to the comedy store at night in like 25 minutes.
Marc:So this is very accessible to everything other than the West Side.
Marc:And I just never go there.
Marc:I don't know what that life is.
Marc:I don't know what's happening on Santa Monica.
Guest:You're not missing anything.
Marc:nothing I don't know you're not missing anything like if I have an if they want me to do a meeting in Culver City I'm like I don't know it's gonna have to be like at one in the afternoon or no go because I am not that's a trip isn't it that's a trip it's all a trip I'm supposed to see a friend in Malibu and that's a long that's a fucking that's a commitment
Marc:No, it's a day.
Marc:Yeah, that other kid, that kid who bought my house that you know, he lives out there.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He's got a place out there.
Guest:Yeah, Brian's got a shack out there.
Marc:Surf shack.
Marc:Yeah, but he did something amazing with that tiny little shitty house I had.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He really kind of, he redid it, and it's kind of something.
Guest:Yeah, he's got a place.
Guest:Matt Ross, my friend Chris Messina's got a little surf shack out there.
Guest:Clark Gregg, you know Clark Gregg?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He was at the show.
Marc:He saw Buffalo the night I was there.
Guest:Clark.
Marc:Clark did.
Marc:And you guys, you ran off and partied, I think.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:No, he doesn't party.
Guest:I know.
Guest:But I took him home.
Guest:You know he's a black belt in jujitsu?
Guest:Of course he is.
Marc:Clark Gregg, did you know that?
Marc:That guy seems like a black belt in everything.
Marc:He's a badass, yeah.
Marc:He's just sort of one of those guys where it's just sort of like, you know, it's like, it's tight, man.
Guest:Whatever it is, it's tight.
Guest:Yeah, he's very competitive, and he's, you know, he directed a movie I did, a Chuck Palahniuk movie, Choke.
Guest:I like that movie.
Guest:He's a good writer, too.
Marc:You do some fun movies.
Guest:I do some fun, some weirdo parts, yeah.
Guest:I do some weirdo parts.
Marc:Tell me about that Schrader movie, if you have any memories of that.
Guest:Oh, fucking A, yeah.
Marc:Light Sweeper.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I just saw, I just watched his new movie.
Guest:Oh, what's his new movie?
Marc:Dude.
Guest:What's it about?
Marc:Sigourney's in it.
Guest:Oh, Sigourney's in it?
Marc:Master Gardener.
Marc:Might be his last one.
Marc:Oh, fucking hell.
Marc:It's Sigourney and Joel Edgerton.
Guest:Oh, I love Joel Edgerton.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:How would they say it?
Marc:Edgerton?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know, but I love Animal Kingdom.
Guest:I love that movie.
Marc:I don't know if I saw that one.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:You got to see Animal Kingdom.
Guest:What is that one?
Guest:Ben Mendelsohn and Joel.
Marc:I like Ben Mendelsohn.
Guest:Oh, man.
Marc:It's great.
Guest:There's a bunch of Australians.
Guest:Oh, you got to see it about bank robbers in Australia.
Guest:Guy Pearce.
Guest:You got to see this fucking movie.
Guest:Who directed that?
Guest:This guy.
Guest:He's brilliant.
Guest:I forgot his name.
Guest:He's fucking brilliant.
Marc:What's it called?
Marc:Animal Kingdom?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'll watch it.
Guest:You got to see it, man.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:But the thing about Schrader, dude.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:These last few movies.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's like a trilogy.
Marc:Like the card.
Marc:The one with Ethan.
Marc:The one with Ethan and then the one with Oscar in this one.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:He did one with Oscar.
Marc:With Joel.
Marc:The card count.
Guest:I got to see the one.
Guest:Yeah, I got to see that.
Guest:I loved Ethan in that movie, man.
Guest:He was great.
Marc:Ethan can do it.
Marc:He can do it.
Guest:Yeah, that was great, man.
Guest:I loved what he did in that.
Marc:Well, Ethan's like, I'm trying to watch that, the thing, you're in that, the documentary.
Guest:Yeah, the Paul Newman thing, yeah.
Marc:It was very interesting to me.
Marc:I watched one episode of it, and it so humanized Paul Newman for me that I'm not even sure I liked him anymore.
Guest:I mean, you know, listen, it's a very intense story, you know?
Guest:It's brutal.
Guest:Maybe it's actor shit.
Marc:It's totally actor shit.
Marc:But just the idea that, like, that guy, who was in the shadow of everybody and didn't really know who he was, was, you know, married to the greatest actress in the world.
Marc:yeah yeah yeah yeah and then he then he sort of well he he had to like i like the whole idea and i'm only at the end of the first thing where he's like he had to reckon with the fact that he was average yeah yeah and figure out how to work from his true self in order to do the work as opposed to you know because i saw that movie did you ever see uh someone up there likes me
Guest:No.
Guest:Is it good?
Guest:I never saw it.
Guest:Well, I didn't know anything about him.
Guest:I saw the verdict.
Marc:Well, that's way later.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:I just watched it.
Marc:I told Garfield to watch it.
Guest:He'd never seen it.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But someone up there likes me.
Marc:He plays Rocky Graziano, right?
Marc:The fighter.
Marc:It's a real story.
Marc:And it's right at that time where he doesn't really know who he is.
Marc:And he's got to be an old fighter at some point.
Marc:I'm watching all these Criterion fight movies.
Marc:I'm not a boxing guy.
Marc:But for some reason, I got into it.
Marc:And I can see it.
Marc:And after I saw the first episode of that documentary, I get it.
Marc:Because the first half of the movie where he's a young Rocky, he's just doing the Italian kid thing like, I'm a troublemaker.
Marc:Like, you know, he's like getting into trouble and he's, you know, what are you going to do?
Marc:Are you going to be a fight?
Marc:You got to be a fight.
Marc:He's okay.
Marc:But as soon as they put the fucking nose on him for the second half of the movie when he's older, he gets it.
Marc:And I can see it happen.
Marc:Like he, I don't know if it was the prosthesis.
Marc:I don't know what, but it's sort of like he landed and it's sort of like that's, and that was his big break, but that's where I could see like he nailed it.
Guest:You gotta see that.
Guest:I haven't watched that.
Guest:I watched Fat City recently.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Man, it's good.
Marc:What's her name?
Marc:She's great.
Guest:Yeah, what's her name?
Guest:Teresa?
Marc:Susan Terrell.
Guest:Susan Terrell, man.
Guest:She got the things unzipped.
Marc:She's just so good.
Marc:So good.
Marc:You don't even know how that happens.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Whatever that was, no craft is going to make that happen.
Guest:I mean, I don't know.
Guest:Who knows?
Guest:Maybe she was a great stage actress.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But who knows?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:But the fight movies, the one thing I realized about them is that there's a reason why.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You notice how the boxing gets better?
Guest:Sure, kind of.
Guest:Like Creed, the boxing was really good.
Guest:Oh, right, sure.
Guest:But the boxing is kind of fun.
Marc:But the movie is always the same fucking movie.
Guest:It's always the same fucking movie.
Marc:It really is always the same movie.
Guest:Bat City as a movie is great.
Marc:It's great, but it's always the manager and the fucking washout and the guy they want to throw a fight and the guy who takes the big money and, you know, like... But it's all the same movies.
Marc:But the fucked up thing about watching these things is I realized that Scorsese with Raging Bull, you think it's some great aesthetic choice to make it black and white, but to be honest with you, it's totally practical because to sell those noses,
Marc:You can't.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:It's so much easier in black and white.
Guest:Are you talking about the Paul Newman thing?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because, like, I bought it.
Marc:But, like, if it was in color, you're not going to.
Guest:No fucking way.
Guest:You're not going to buy it.
Guest:No fucking way.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Because he had a prosthetic the whole time for Raging Bull, right?
Marc:Half of it.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was a fucked up nose.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:That is a practical thing.
Marc:But getting back to Schrader, at the time you worked with him, it was like fairly close to Taxi Driver, right?
Guest:He made me... Well, it was about... It was a good 15 years after.
Marc:I guess so.
Guest:Or 10 years after.
Guest:It was definitely like early 90s, and I was a kid, and...
Guest:You know, it's funny.
Guest:I screamed in a pillow and smoked a bunch of cigarettes to get my voice really deep, and then we ended up looping it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I had to recreate that sound, and I totally blew my voice out for that.
Marc:For that movie?
Guest:I was trying to get that kind of drug addict sound.
Guest:Because you had like two big scenes, right?
Marc:It wasn't huge.
Guest:You know that Michael Wincock thing?
Guest:You know that Michael Wincock has that voice?
Guest:I wanted to get that voice.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Who's he?
Guest:He's in Nope.
Guest:He's in Nope right now.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I wanted to get that voice.
Guest:Oh, that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:He showed up in Nope, that dude.
Guest:I haven't seen him in a while.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:Great actor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I wanted to get that voice.
Guest:Anyway, we looped the whole fucking scene eventually.
Guest:But he made me wear this jacket.
Guest:Trader made me wear this jacket.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The leather jacket?
Guest:This leather jacket like upstages the entire scene.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's like it's neon.
Marc:But when you read that, it's different.
Marc:It's a different script than he usually writes.
Marc:He sort of evolved in this.
Marc:I think like, you know, everything up from autofocus becomes something deeper and darker and less explainable than than where he was at with Sleeper.
Guest:Yeah, and the one with Nolte is really in James Cole.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's pretty amazing.
Marc:That's fucking affliction.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:But that's after that.
Marc:It's like affliction, autofocus, the Priest movie.
Guest:Autofocus.
Guest:I loved autofocus.
Marc:Oh, my God, dude.
Guest:Yeah, Greg Kinnear.
Marc:Dude.
Marc:He's great, man.
Marc:When they're just sitting there on the couch at opposite ends jerking off, talking like nothing's going on.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Evan Willem Dafoe.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Remember her?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the best.
Guest:That's the best, man.
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:Yeah, of course he did autofocus.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I love Greg Kinnear.
Guest:I just saw Greg Kinnear in something with Paul Hauser.
Guest:He was great.
Guest:He was great.
Marc:Yeah, he's good.
Marc:He's fun to watch.
Marc:Okay, so this movie.
Marc:So what kind of movie do you call this movie?
Marc:uh this would be uh it's a new it's a genre you know we kind of like see how they run because it's like a new it's like a kind of a riff on that murder mystery business yeah it's like i guess like knives out knives kind of knives out agatha christie comedy mystery it seems to all of a sudden have this resurgence i think knives out knives just kind of brought it back yeah just opened the portal
Guest:yes yes yeah you know hopefully big cast fun movie whodunit yes whodunit period pieces period pieces yeah yeah yeah yeah who directed this one this guy tom he he uh he did a show called this country yeah tom george yeah and so he's used to a lot of improv-y stuff and uh
Guest:So we had a big two-week rehearsal period that was really fun.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:During the kind of semi-lockdown in London.
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:I mean, we got to like, it was kind of like doing a play.
Guest:I haven't rehearsed that long for a movie ever.
Marc:But you did a lot of group stuff.
Marc:Yeah, it was cool.
Marc:Got the team together.
Guest:Yeah, we did all the testing shit.
Marc:I didn't even know that that was that guy.
Marc:Yeah, David Aiello.
Marc:Aiello.
Guest:I thought it was Aiello.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just say Aiello.
Guest:I think if you look at the spelling, it's going to confuse you.
Guest:I think you just got to go.
Marc:I talk to him.
Guest:Just do it phonetically.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You talk to him?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a good guy.
Marc:Great guy.
Guest:He's a very fit guy.
Marc:Is he?
Guest:Very fit.
Marc:How are you doing with that?
Marc:You seem all right.
Guest:I'm doing all right.
Guest:I'm doing all right.
Guest:You know, I'm 53.
Guest:I'm hanging in there.
Marc:I'm 50.
Marc:I'm going to be 59.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Is that true?
Guest:I saw the pull up the dips and stuff.
Marc:Yeah, I can do it.
Marc:I can do a couple.
Marc:I mean, I work out like three times a week and I just, I hike up a mountain twice, three times a week.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:You got to move it or lose it.
Guest:It's blood to the brain.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This thing's floating around this, Mike.
Marc:Yeah, I guess so.
Marc:But what are we working towards?
Guest:That's a good fucking question, man.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I really don't know.
Guest:I work out like crazy.
Guest:I look in the mirror.
Guest:I'm like, this is the result?
Guest:This is average?
Guest:I thought I want to look...
Guest:I want to see Joel Edgerton when I look in the mirror.
Guest:I want to see Brad Pitt.
Marc:I'm like, this is it?
Marc:But you know, when you see those guys, it's like, that's their job.
Guest:Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Marc:You know, they're not casually staying in shape.
Marc:No, of course.
Marc:Those guys that are trying to act casual with their six packs and they're 50, it's like, you never leave the gym.
Marc:And you don't eat anything with any fat on it.
Guest:Yeah, I think I do it more for mental reasons now.
Marc:Oh, for me too, yeah.
Guest:I think that's to clear my head.
Guest:It's an active meditation, I guess.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:The hiking is for me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I always heard about people talk about the high that they get from running or stuff, and I never really noticed it.
Marc:The endorphin thing, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but I've been high.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Like, I've done coke, so I'm not going to- It's hard to replace that.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not going to run for an hour and be like, holy shit.
Guest:Maybe 10 cups of really good blue bottle coffee.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Maybe, but then you get tired and weird and nauseous.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It doesn't work out.
Marc:You cross the threshold.
Marc:But now I get it because when you're hiking, you've got a sustained incline going, your heart's fucking going.
Marc:I'm like, oh, yeah.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:That's what it is.
Guest:I went on a hike recently and I was surprised how much of a workout.
Marc:Jacked.
Marc:Jammed.
Guest:I was like, wow.
Guest:Yeah, it's a good workout.
Marc:Oh, they're the best, yeah.
Marc:Do you run?
Guest:I do sprints.
Guest:I don't run.
Marc:You sprint?
Marc:On the treadmill?
Guest:Yeah, I do like 30-second sprints.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:I just do this 50-minute incline.
Marc:That's good, man.
Marc:And then I do like a 20-minute downcline.
Guest:That's, the incline's great.
Guest:Yeah, going down's the tricky part, right, on the knees, you know?
Marc:I don't got bad knees, but you're just like, I'm running down this massive hill and I'm old, but I've been doing it for a while, but not a day does it go by where I don't think like, dude, if you go down, you might be out of the game permanently.
Marc:Is it worth it?
Marc:And I'm like, yeah.
Guest:What if you run up the hill and walk down?
Marc:Well, I mean, I'd like to work towards that.
Marc:I mean, this is like a massive hill, dude.
Marc:And to run up, it would be something.
Guest:No, no, you don't want to run up.
Guest:Not in the sun, anyway.
Marc:I go early.
Marc:I was up there at eight.
Guest:Today was okay.
Guest:Yeah, I couldn't.
Guest:I'm walking down.
Marc:So what are you doing tonight?
Guest:Tonight, Leslie's making some chicken.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Gonna hang out.
Marc:I'm gonna cook a chicken.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, if you want, come to the comedy store.
Marc:I'm gonna be- You're going to the comedy store?
Marc:I am.
Marc:And tomorrow.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I only go to the comedy store.
Guest:And who do you run into there?
Marc:We're at the store?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who are the other comedians you run into?
Marc:Tonight?
Marc:I mean, who's been around?
Marc:You know, Sebastian's around.
Marc:Oh, Sebastian.
Guest:Leslie just did a movie with Sebastian.
Marc:Yeah, a lot.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:What movie is that?
Guest:Sebastian and Leslie play husband and wife.
Guest:It's coming out.
Guest:It's about his dad.
Guest:His dad was a hairdresser, and he talks about it.
Guest:Oh, it's actually he wrote the movie?
Guest:Yeah, it looks like a funny movie, like Meet the Parents.
Marc:Oh, but it's Sebastian's movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's something, huh?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:He's huge.
Marc:He's huge right now.
Guest:Are you still listening to old stuff?
Guest:You obviously saw the George Carlin documentary.
Marc:Occasionally, I'll listen to Schimmel.
Marc:But outside of Schimmel, I don't listen to too much old comedy.
Guest:Bill Hicks, nobody liked, or Richard Pryor.
Marc:Well, I knew them.
Marc:Yeah, I knew Hicks.
Marc:And yeah, I can listen to Hicks sometimes.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But I don't listen to much comedy.
Marc:Pryor, I watched Pryor not too long ago.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Some old stuff just to sort of, sometimes you have to reengage with what made them great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I knew Hicks, and I come up with, it's a little weirder when there are people you know.
Marc:But there's some people that genuinely make me laugh.
Guest:And the album, you said the Red Fox album to listen to would be.
Marc:There's a bunch of records.
Marc:No, I mean, you got to wash your ass.
Marc:That's a later album.
Marc:But what he became popular for were something called Party Records.
Marc:And they were, I can't remember the label, but there's a bunch of them.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And they're just dirty fucking joke records.
Marc:I'll show them to you in the house.
Marc:Okay, okay.
Marc:All right, buddy.
Marc:Good talk.
Marc:All right, good.
Marc:All right, man.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:See how they run.
Marc:Sam's new movie is now in theaters.
Marc:That was fun to talk to Sam.
Marc:Fun.
Marc:Always fun to talk to Sammy.
Marc:All right, hang out a second, will you people?
Marc:Okay, for Full Marin subscribers, we have some tunes.
Marc:Yes, some of you might remember that we did a special release for Record Store Day a few years ago called In the Garage, live music from WTF with Marc Maron, Volume 1.
Marc:There's not been a Volume 2, so instead of waiting to make another record, we've put it together for you Full Marin subscribers.
Marc:It's got songs from Amy Mann, Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top,
Marc:James Mercer of the Shins, Nick Lowe, Blues Traveler, and more all performed in the garage at various times over the past 13 years.
Marc:All those, I believe, are from the original garage.
Marc:It's in your feed now if you're a Full Marin subscriber.
Marc:If you haven't subscribed yet, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF+.
Marc:Next week, Sigourney Weaver on Monday and Abigail Disney on Thursday.
Marc:Sigourney and I talked about her whole career.
Marc:She's definitely a powerful presence, a powerful woman in cinema history, a game changer.
Marc:Abigail Disney, very interesting, is the grandniece of Walt.
Marc:who has made a documentary about the labor practices in the country, but specifically in Disney, in Disneyland.
Marc:She uses her family's legacy to sort of make some points about wage disparity and other things.
Marc:It's kind of a great talk.
Marc:Tonight, I'm in Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theater and then Fort Collins, Colorado tomorrow at the Lincoln Center.
Marc:I'm in Toronto, Ontario at the Queen Elizabeth Theater on September 30th and October 1st.
Marc:Then I'm in Livermore, California at the Bankhead Theater on October 6th and Carmel by the Sea, California at the Sunset Center on October 7th.
Marc:I'll be in London, England at the Bloomsbury Theatre Saturday and Sunday, October 22nd and 23rd.
Marc:And stay tuned for details about a special live taping of WTF while I'm out there in London.
Marc:I'll be in Dublin, Ireland at Vicar Street Wednesday, October 26th.
Marc:Then in November and December, I'm in Oklahoma City, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Long Beach, California, Eugene, Oregon, Bend, Oregon, Asheville, North Carolina, and Nashville, Tennessee.
Marc:This all leads up to my HBO special taping at Town Hall in New York City on Thursday, December 8th.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com slash tour for all the dates and ticket info.
Marc:Here's another take on the same old shit on my Stratocaster.
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guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.