Episode 1357 - Christina Ricci
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:Huh?
Marc:What is happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:I want to acknowledge...
Marc:a lot of the feedback I got last week about talking about sobriety.
Marc:And look, I can't answer all of your emails, but you're welcome.
Marc:If you got anything out of this show that helped you stay sober for even a day, I'm grateful to be of service.
Marc:I don't feel that I am of service enough in the day-to-day.
Marc:Sometimes I don't feel that I attend enough meetings.
Marc:Sometimes I don't.
Marc:I'm always in touch.
Marc:With sober people, I went to a thing the other night.
Marc:My buddy Jerry gave me a cake, as they say in the biz, in the racket, in the secret club, in the secret society, the Illuminati.
Marc:It was good to speak a bit at one of those things.
Marc:But look, any way that I help you, I am happy to hear about it, and I'm happy that it has that effect.
Marc:So you're welcome, all of you that reached out after that.
Marc:I appreciate hearing from you.
Marc:Today, I'm going to talk to Christina Ricci.
Marc:It was interesting.
Marc:Like I watched that show.
Marc:I watched all of those yellow jackets in order to prepare for talking to her.
Marc:I've seen her movies, obviously, many of them.
Marc:She's been acting professionally since she was eight years old.
Marc:And a lot of people remember her from the Addams Family movies or when she got older from movies like The Ice Storm and Buffalo 66 and Monster.
Marc:Monster, right?
Marc:The latest show is a Showtime series I just mentioned, Yellow Jackets.
Marc:She just got an Emmy nomination for Outstanding Supporting Actress in a drama series.
Marc:So she came up and we got her and I talked to her and it was great.
Marc:It was actually nice to meet her and nice to talk to her.
Marc:New tour dates for November and December.
Marc:This is me, my tour.
Marc:Oklahoma City at the Tower Theater, Wednesday, November 2nd.
Marc:Dallas, Texas at the Majestic Theater, Thursday, November 3rd.
Marc:San Antonio at the Tobin Center for the Performing Arts, Friday, November 4th.
Marc:And Houston at the Cullen Theater at Wortham Center, Saturday, November 5th.
Marc:Then Eugene, Oregon at the Holt Center for Performing Arts, Friday, November 18th.
Marc:And Bend, Oregon at Tower Theater, Saturday, November 19th.
Marc:And in December, I'm in Asheville, North Carolina at the Orange Peel, Friday, December 2nd.
Marc:And Nashville, Tennessee at the James K. Polk Theater, Saturday, December 3rd.
Marc:All of those shows will have a presale this Wednesday, August 17th, starting at 10 a.m.
Marc:and going through Thursday.
Marc:The password is time, T-I-M-E.
Marc:Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for links and information.
Marc:I'll be in Lincoln, Nebraska on Thursday.
Marc:Des Moines, Iowa on Friday.
Marc:That's this week.
Marc:Iowa City on Saturday.
Marc:Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets to those dates.
Marc:I'm excited.
Marc:I got an old friend in Lincoln.
Marc:I don't know if he's still alive.
Marc:I don't know what condition his mental health is.
Marc:Knew him years ago.
Marc:Back in the day, had some good times.
Marc:Then he became a somewhat peculiar anti-Semitic farmer.
Marc:See if he comes to the show to tell me about the Soros Colossus that holds the world in its hands.
Marc:The cats...
Marc:There's been a change in the story, it seems.
Marc:I was really anticipating a sort of ongoing revelation and drama with the cats under the deck, but the mommy cat has moved them all.
Marc:I don't know where she took them.
Marc:I don't know what made her take them, but they're gone.
Marc:She's been coming around a bit to eat, so they can't be far.
Marc:I've looked around.
Marc:I don't know where they are.
Marc:The neighbor next door here, the woman who lives next door, is also feeding the mother cat and also looking for where the kittens are.
Marc:I don't know if they were all eaten by coyotes.
Marc:I don't know if she moved them because something spooked her.
Marc:They were very safe under the deck.
Marc:But all I can say is that drama is over.
Marc:And that story ends here until they either resurface or I don't know.
Marc:I haven't seen the mother today.
Marc:But in relation to that,
Marc:I'm happy that I took the one kitten because we've got a kitten that looks like it's going to be living with me.
Marc:Kit's got it now and is nursing it.
Marc:It's three weeks old that I took from under my deck.
Marc:Not under the deck, under the stairs.
Marc:Because the mother, I guess, was moving them and left this one sad little guy.
Marc:And I took him at two weeks old.
Marc:And we've been nursing it back to, not back to health.
Marc:It was healthy.
Marc:But we've been bottle feeding it.
Marc:And it's coming around.
Marc:And it looks like it's going to be Charlie Roscoe.
Marc:I've given him two names, Charlie Roscoe, because I'm not sure whether I like Charlie or Roscoe.
Marc:I'm leaning towards Roscoe today, but I also like Charlie.
Marc:And then I'll have Buster Sam and Charlie or Buster Sam and Roscoe.
Marc:But Charlie Roscoe is doing well.
Marc:I'll move him over here soon.
Marc:And look, it just keeps going.
Marc:I've been looking back at my many lives.
Marc:I have many lives.
Marc:And I really do think I'm starting to feel like, look, obviously I've had one life and I've been the guy in that life.
Marc:But if you've moved, if you've lived in many different places and there's many different homes that you've had...
Marc:And different elements or different parts of your career.
Marc:You're a different place.
Marc:We're all in different places.
Marc:But between Boston, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles twice, New York twice, the different communities I was involved with, the different houses, it's gotten me going through.
Marc:And I've gone through calendars before.
Marc:I did a little of that on Instagram over the pandemic.
Marc:But I pulled my calendars out to kind of do what I did with my dad.
Marc:I don't know if you listen to that.
Marc:We have bonus material now if you get WTF+.
Marc:There's bonus material.
Marc:And one of those was I brought a bunch of pictures I found from my dad's childhood that I brought to him.
Marc:And he's got the beginning of dementia.
Marc:And I showed him those.
Marc:And it was kind of interesting to see what he was able to, you know, he remembered a lot of it.
Marc:So now I went through my 1991 calendar.
Marc:And just to go through the dates of where I was and what I was doing and what I can remember, what I can't remember, it's sort of fascinating because it really was an entirely different life.
Marc:And I really don't know sometimes how that kid made it through doing what he was doing.
Marc:But I was fucking driven, man.
Marc:And I still have the habits.
Marc:It's it's wild, you know, looking back at those dates and just seeing, you know, doing five, six shows a night in New York, just scrambling.
Marc:I mean, every night of the week doing at least two sets of comedy.
Marc:And I still have that work ethic around stand up.
Marc:Yeah, I'm going to do that for bonus content.
Marc:If that is incentive for you to get WTF+, I would do that.
Marc:Because I think I'm going to do it a bit.
Marc:Because I have a lot of those notebooks.
Marc:I'm going through all kinds of stuff because...
Marc:I'm starting to realize that getting older and the contraction, what I think is a natural contraction of ego or something, that you get to a certain age where you don't hit a wall, but it's almost like you come out of a trance and everything becomes very present and very immediate.
Marc:I think the sort of arc of youth and the sort of drive that you have on all levels
Marc:Whether they're delusional out of necessity to sort of keep doing what you're doing.
Marc:I think a lot of people who really engage in a life in the arts have to be willing either consciously or without really thinking about it to make a lot of sacrifices.
Marc:around security around family to choose a sort of selfish life of expression whatever yours is requires a certain delusional disposition so I don't know if this trance thing applies to everybody but there is an element once you hit a certain age where you've just come out of this trance and you realize like okay well here I am in the present in this life I don't have that much time left and everything is painfully real what do I do now and
Marc:And kind of assessing and taking an inventory of what you have in your life and how much is necessary, I think is important.
Marc:And also nostalgic and weird.
Marc:There's a box upstairs in this garage of stuff that I wrote and did for publication.
Marc:I don't have hardly have any recollection of it.
Marc:So I'm going to kind of put together those parts of my life, try to get rid of as much as I can.
Marc:I don't know how to have a garage sale, but I don't need a lot of the shit I have.
Marc:I'm going to purge.
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:We're all in the fucking death throes of some sort of baby boomer ego problem.
Marc:I mean, Jesus Christ.
Marc:There's so many dudes, you know, original boomers.
Marc:It's just like the death throes.
Marc:They refuse to have the contraction that will pull them out of the trance.
Marc:And they're just flailing and screaming and yelling and bellowing, addicted to thinking that they may be relevant.
Marc:Entertainers, politicians.
Marc:The world is ending because of the inability of the first generation of baby boomers to let their egos contract normally, be released from the trance and do what's necessary to stay alive with a certain amount of humility.
Marc:If those were the people that would just get off the fucking stage already.
Marc:So Christina Ricci is in this Yellow Jackets show on Showtime.
Marc:Season one is currently on demand.
Marc:She's nominated for Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series at this year's Emmy Awards.
Marc:And this is me talking to her.
Marc:With work on your house, my problem is like you commit to it and then they're like, yeah, it's going to take about a year and a half.
Guest:Yeah, and then if they say that to you, you know it's three years.
Guest:Three years.
Marc:And I'm like, it makes me anxious.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:I just want to move someplace and have it be perfect and not have to worry.
Marc:Yeah, until it starts breaking down on its own.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I'm happy to maintain.
Guest:I don't want to create my own dwelling.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When I lived in Highland Park, I had an architect draw plans to redo the house a little bit.
Marc:There was a beautiful, weird old bungalow, less than a thousand square feet.
Marc:And he made a new house.
Marc:He designed this whole new house.
Marc:And it was going to take a year and a half at least.
Marc:And I was like, I can't.
Marc:I can't do it.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's too much.
Marc:Well, what's the dream house?
Marc:Where would you like to live?
Guest:I mean, my dream has always been to live in Malibu.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Because I really like the ocean.
Marc:Yeah, that's a lot of ocean.
Marc:That's like everyday ocean.
Guest:Yes, everyday ocean.
Marc:That's like, you know, isolated ocean.
Guest:Well, but I mean, I'm fairly isolated anyway.
Guest:Like, I never go out.
Guest:I don't go out very often.
Guest:And I have people come to the house.
Guest:Yeah, that's what I do.
Guest:If you're in Malibu, people will come to your house.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Well, you better get an extra room.
Marc:They'll stay there for a few days.
Guest:That's fine.
Guest:They can help watch the baby.
Marc:But so this this show you're on, I don't usually start with the shows, but but but like, you know, I didn't know what it was.
Marc:So I'm like, I better check it out so I can talk to her.
Marc:And I watched a whole series.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:But I was hoping for it to just have closure at the end.
Marc:I didn't realize I was watching the first season.
Marc:I get very used to watching limited series.
Marc:So I'm like, this will resolve itself.
Marc:And now I'm like, oh, fuck.
Guest:No.
Marc:What's gonna happen now?
Marc:It's a lot more people involved in this, apparently.
Guest:Yeah, there are gonna be more people.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:You don't know?
Guest:No, I found it really... I find the whole thing with TV where you have to have a certain job title to have all the information.
Guest:I find that to be... I found it to be frustrating for the first season.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I have decided...
Guest:to not allow myself to be beholden to what my character does or needing to know any of that stuff so that I will just not be irritated by it.
Guest:So I don't even ask anymore.
Marc:Oh, as to what's going to happen?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, most of the time, I don't know.
Marc:I've worked on shows in that.
Marc:Maybe they don't know.
Guest:Well, that's the thing, too.
Guest:They also don't know.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:But I just mean, as an actor on these shows, you're not involved in that aspect of it.
Guest:I know.
Guest:So I found it easier for me, because I have also been an EP on shows, to just, for this one, be like, I'm an actor.
Guest:I am going to learn how to do this with limited information.
Guest:Because I can't stand feeling like I can't do something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or being annoyed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Being annoyed is the bane of my existence.
Guest:So my whole life is avoiding that.
Guest:So I'm going to learn how to just be good at this so I don't even ask anything.
Marc:Annoyed at not knowing?
Guest:I guess so.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Or you get attached to your ideas of what should happen and then they're not the same and then you're annoyed at like, oh, my ideals are better.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't want to have that.
Guest:I want to just be like, great, so I'm the actor, and this is what you're telling me to do, and sweet, I can do it.
Marc:So that's the work for you right now.
Guest:Yes, for me, as a TV actor, this is my challenge.
Marc:It's not to say, wait, wait, can I just ask some questions about why you did this this way?
Guest:I need to be completely autonomous, be able to figure it out, and just do my job.
Marc:Yeah, it's hard.
Marc:But it's a relief if you can do it.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And I feel like it'll be so great and freeing when I'm like, there's just no issue.
Marc:I think the way to do that is realize like, well, you know, this is, it's not all hinging on me.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:That's the other thing.
Guest:I did start doing that because it's such an ensemble piece.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:I'm just a little piece of this, right?
Marc:And, you know, like whatever my big ideas were, it's like, why get involved?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:One way I get involved and two, also realizing that you are a cog.
Guest:Everything that every character does has to serve the story.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so it's so different than being a film actor because we get to just be like obsessed with our characters.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But once you're involved in this, it's really about letting go of ego, I guess, at the end of the day.
Marc:Right, and just being a worker, no matter who you're working with.
Marc:I've only had an experience when I was doing my show on IFC where I had somebody who was a pain in the ass once, an actor, and wouldn't get out of their trailer because of a food problem.
Marc:I'm like, really?
Marc:Fucking people do this?
Marc:They're not...
Guest:Yes, they do.
Guest:I've seen it quite a lot.
Guest:I don't understand.
Guest:You're just like, really about food?
Guest:It's always something really unflattering that they're waiting for.
Guest:Find something else.
Marc:Or they're late and I really don't.
Marc:On some level, I have a hard time with acting because I just did this thing in Canada where I shot...
Marc:Like it was three days and there were 14 hour days and I swear I worked two hours of each day and it drove me fucking nuts.
Marc:That's what drives me nuts.
Marc:It's not being on set and making decisions.
Marc:If I'm asked for a suggestion, I'll say something.
Marc:But just sitting around in the trailer, I don't care how many books you have or what your phone is doing.
Marc:It's just that sedentary shit.
Marc:That's the whole job is handling that.
Guest:Yeah, it's a lot of time managing and managing your own brain.
Marc:What do you do?
Guest:Well, I produce as well.
Guest:So I generally will have a lot of material to catch up on and I look for IP and stuff.
Marc:So you have a production company?
Marc:I do.
Marc:So you're constantly getting pitches, ideas, scripts, things?
Guest:No, no, I find stuff.
Marc:You find stuff?
Guest:People don't come to me.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So I have a couple things set up that are based on pieces of IP I've found and stuff.
Marc:Oh, intellectual property.
Guest:Yeah, sorry.
Marc:So you're just poking around?
Guest:Yeah, searching.
Marc:Like just stuff that interests you?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I found some sort of obscure true crime and some other sort of like Hollywood lore stuff, articles.
Guest:Ooh, like what?
Guest:Well, I mean.
Marc:Hollywood lore.
Guest:Yeah, we're going, yeah, I have something and we'll ultimately be pitching.
Marc:Okay, well, you don't want to, but you like the old Hollywood shit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I like a lot, I have a lot of different things, but you know, I'm, uh, yeah, I generally, yeah.
Guest:And, and this piece is sort of, um, speaks to like the, obviously everyone's obsessed with the darker side, the seedy side of Hollywood, but, um, but also speaks to the sort of, um, uh, competitive female relationship that existed.
Guest:Oh really?
Guest:What year?
Guest:It's, um, like the thirties, forties.
Guest:Oh yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:You realize when you watch his old movies, like these people were just like us, horrible actor people.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And the business was even smaller and more competitive and weird.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's really weird.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And no one had access.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because no one had access to it.
Marc:It wasn't like today where everyone's up your ass.
Guest:It was just a couple of people who controlled everything.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then there's like these fixers that cleaned everything up.
Marc:Those are the fascinating ones to me, the fixers.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, the people that work for the studios and just sort of like, all right, leave.
Marc:We'll take care of the body.
Marc:Get the press out of here.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's terrifying.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It must have been a really frightening environment.
Marc:Nice houses, though.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Beautiful.
Guest:And if you make it through, really worth it.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what happened to a lot of those old actors.
Marc:And I guess it's all sort of the same.
Marc:So wait, so now you're on set and you're not going to like, you know, you're just going to work.
Marc:You're just going to be an actor.
Guest:No, but it's not like that.
Guest:I mean, I am also, you know.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:But like, I was just trying to get back to that because like, there must be something also rewarding.
Marc:I mean, how is everybody working with?
Marc:I mean, I've interviewed...
Marc:juliet and i've interviewed melanie um i don't know tawny but uh but i was like audibly laughing at you and no it's a funny character yeah it is like just it's really the dynamic between you and juliet is hilarious and i don't know if that if they knew that but they're just something about the two personalities like you're a control freak and she's like and it's funny
Guest:Yeah, no, and we fell into a really fun dynamic as well that I think carries over into the scenes.
Guest:She's a lot like me as an actor, just very reactive within the scene.
Guest:So we ended up doing things that I think then informed the writing for future episodes.
Marc:So they were writing as you were shooting?
Guest:Well, I mean, yes.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:That's always good because they don't know what they're going to get out of a cast.
Guest:Or maybe just adjusting.
Guest:I'm sure they had their scripts.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But it's good that they can see how you guys kind of... And what was the process of aging the younger actress?
Marc:Did you start with her performance or did you guys do it together?
Guest:We kind of did it together.
Guest:What's her name?
Guest:Samantha and Roddy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We met before the season, but just once for lunch.
Guest:And we discussed the references she'd been given versus the ones that I'd been given.
Guest:Because I feel like that's really informative.
Guest:Because they were giving her corrective sort of references based on her personality and me, the other ones.
Guest:Because she's actually naturally this incredibly bubbly, vegan, animal-loving... Really?
Guest:Just like...
Guest:exuberant and I am the opposite.
Guest:And so by looking at the different references we were being given.
Marc:By references you mean what?
Guest:Movies, other people's performances, things like that.
Guest:It gives you a better idea
Guest:of in general what they kind of want the overall character to be.
Guest:And then she and I discussed sort of how she would be playing her and then how I would be playing the character based on the 30 years of basically like squeezing of life in between.
Guest:So that was it.
Guest:And then, you know, people keep bringing up that our gestures were very similar, but we never rehearsed or practiced or...
Marc:And you didn't get to watch her performance before you?
Guest:No, we would watch, we would do Zoom script readers.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I would hear her.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or, you know, see her perform that.
Guest:But the physicality we never saw.
Guest:But I think that just speaks to really the strength of the writing and the strength of the characterization in general.
Marc:So what references were they giving her?
Yeah.
Guest:She got once like, welcome to the dollhouse.
Guest:Okay, yeah.
Guest:And I don't want to overstep by speaking about someone else's character.
Guest:But they sort of spoke to more of like a blankness in the personality when she was younger.
Guest:And then, so that was helpful for me because then I was sort of like, oh, okay, then we can literally color in.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And what were your references?
Yeah.
Guest:My references, well, they didn't give me any film references.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But we talked a lot about different things.
Guest:And one of the characters that we talked about in the beginning that I was so intrigued by was the, oh my God, Sheila from Wild Wild Country.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:The documentary about the cult.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And this idea of how she's adorable, that woman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Adorable, but so full of rage and hate and bitterness.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so I love that idea.
Guest:And it's like, well, she's always smiling when she's angry and all that stuff.
Guest:I'm obsessed with, I love passive aggression.
Guest:It's my favorite.
Guest:I hate, well, I'm actually also very confrontational.
Guest:But I really love it.
Guest:Are you passive aggressive?
Guest:Yes, I am.
Guest:I'm a small woman in public.
Guest:If I want to express that I'm unhappy, it has to be like...
Guest:Quietly.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It has to be like a nasty smiley kind of like, oh, did you need to stand right here?
Guest:Right where I am right now?
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Sorry, sir.
Guest:That's how I'm too small.
Guest:I can't actually be hostile.
Marc:Sure you can.
Guest:Well, you know what I mean.
Marc:It's safer.
Guest:It's less risky.
Guest:You can always say, no, no, I meant it.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Oh, no, you're misunderstanding.
Guest:It's the cowardly approach to confrontation.
Marc:But do you find sometimes you get misread?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes, for sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, what did I do?
Marc:Like, nothing.
Guest:I don't know why.
Marc:Like, that kind of thing?
Marc:Like, were you not really being passive-aggressive, but people think you are?
Guest:Yes, that happens now.
Guest:Apparently, when I compliment people, they think I'm being sarcastic.
Guest:It's really been a problem my whole life.
Marc:Really?
Yeah.
Marc:You're just sort of like, hey, good job.
Marc:Are you fucking with me?
Guest:Yeah, I remember going up to Matt LeBlanc at the Golden Globes when I was 23 and just being like, oh my God, I love the show so much.
Guest:I love you.
Guest:I think you're so great.
Guest:And he literally thought I was being a jerk.
Guest:And my boyfriend at the time had to be like, no, no, no, no, man.
Guest:She really, really loves friends.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah, and it's happened to me many times throughout my life.
Marc:Yeah, I think that when people have a sense or they think they know you or that they've projected a personality onto you based on whatever work they know, they make assumptions.
Marc:That happens to me all the time.
Marc:People just assume that I don't want to do things or that I'm acting too smart.
Guest:I was about to say, they probably...
Guest:You're too smart for everything.
Marc:And I'm just sort of like, why?
Marc:I just, no, I don't.
Marc:I'm probably not going to go, but it's not because I'm too smart.
Guest:But ask me anyway.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But like with Juliette Lewis, I mean, you guys sort of had a similar kind of, you've been in the business since you were kids.
Guest:Yeah, we've had very similar and pretty much the same time.
Marc:Yeah, did you work together ever before?
Guest:We never worked together.
Guest:I was actually obsessed with her when I was a teenager.
Marc:For which thing?
Guest:Natural Born Killers.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Because I was like 14 or something when that came out.
Guest:It's so wild, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's intense.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember working with a PA who had just worked with her.
Guest:And I was just like, tell me everything.
Guest:What does she eat?
Guest:What does she wear to work?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everything I wanted to know.
Marc:And then did you meet each other over the years?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were in similar circles in L.A.
Guest:So I went to one of her birthday parties, but I didn't really know her and things like that.
Guest:And then we met on set.
Guest:on the pilot really for the first like real time for yellow jacket for yellow jacket and then we stayed in touch while we were waiting to see if we got picked up and all that stuff yeah and then yeah and so we yeah we've been in touch about all and all the um your pals now yeah and all the adults like all four of us we're all in touch and we have like a marco polo group and oh really that's nice well i mean you're all like well i guess melanie's with an actor yes jason he's a good actor yeah he's amazing yeah what's what's your husband do
Guest:My husband is a hairdresser.
Guest:He does hair for fashion and campaigns and shows.
Marc:That's good to have around.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's been helpful at times.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:So when did you start?
Marc:I mean, I know...
Guest:Start acting?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, when I was seven.
Marc:Seven?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:I started doing commercials and TV and stuff.
Marc:Where were you?
Guest:I was in New York.
Guest:I lived in New Jersey at the time.
Marc:But you were born out here?
Guest:I was born here, but then we moved to Montauk, Long Island.
Guest:I lived there for four years and then moved to New Jersey, and that's where I was sort of discovered.
Marc:What was all the moving?
Marc:Why Long Island, then Jersey?
Guest:My dad had a crazy business thing that happened, and so we actually were all woken up.
Marc:Like a big idea?
Guest:No, he was in a business, and something happened, and so we had to leave L.A.
Guest:in the middle of the night.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All four kids, three dogs.
Marc:Is this a witness protection thing that you can't talk about?
Guest:No, it was like a bad partnership that went wrong.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I think he had done something that they knew about.
Guest:Dubious?
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Being held over maybe someone's head.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:But I don't know because, you know, as a kid, those things are never clear.
Marc:So you were on the run, though.
Marc:It was clear that you were on the run.
Guest:Well, I don't think it's normal to move in the middle of the night, but that's all I'm going to say about that.
Marc:Yeah, and that's when you went to Long Island?
Guest:Yeah, we had a summer house in Montauk, and so we drove across country and moved there.
Guest:And then eventually I ended up in New Jersey with my family and was discovered in a school play.
Marc:What part of New Jersey?
Guest:Montclair.
Marc:Oh, yeah, that's not far.
Marc:I grew up.
Marc:Well, I didn't grow up.
Marc:I was born in Jersey.
Guest:Oh, nice.
Marc:Yeah, but I think my cousins went to what was, isn't there Montclair Academy or something?
Guest:Yeah, MKA.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The private school there.
Marc:I think that's where my cousins went.
Guest:Oh, fun.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you like Jersey?
Guest:I actually do.
Guest:Right?
Guest:I really liked living there.
Guest:Montclair was a beautiful town.
Guest:I had a great, I had a nice little childhood there.
Marc:And you have like nine brothers and sisters?
Guest:No, I have two brothers and a sister.
Marc:Are they all younger?
Guest:No, I'm the youngest.
Marc:You are?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How are they all doing?
Guest:They're doing great.
Guest:Everybody's doing good.
Marc:Are they in show business?
Marc:No.
Guest:Nope.
Marc:You're the only one?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm the only one.
Marc:And are your folks still around?
Guest:My father's dead, but my mom is around.
Guest:We're pretty close.
Guest:She's at the house like every twice a week.
Marc:Oh, so she's out here.
Marc:And you got kids, so that's good.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:She comes to see the baby.
Marc:And that works.
Guest:Twice a week.
Guest:And my son, of course.
Marc:How old's the son?
Guest:My son is about to be eight.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And then I have an eight-month-old.
Marc:So how does the kids thing, like, you know, given that... I have to assume probably, you know, I'm sure it's been assumed before.
Marc:I mean, if you started acting at seven, you know, how much of a childhood did you have, really, if you think about it?
Guest:Well, I was really good at compartmentalizing.
Guest:The first time I went to... I went and shot a movie when I was nine.
Guest:It was my first movie.
Guest:And I came back, and the first day back, I started talking about what I had been doing.
Guest:And immediately, it was just like...
Guest:everybody shut down and no one wanted to hear it.
Marc:What kids your age you mean?
Guest:Yeah and they felt like I was bragging or it was just made me immediately a weirdo.
Marc:Really?
Guest:And so I never spoke about it again.
Guest:I would leave for three months at a time come back no one would ask me what I've been doing and I would never talk about it.
Marc:But didn't they eventually start seeing you in movies?
Guest:They did, but they still never spoke to me about it.
Guest:It was really interesting.
Guest:They're the same kids I'd been going to school with since I was like six years old until I got to high school.
Guest:And just no one ever talked about it.
Guest:So I was kind of able to go and have two separate lives in a way.
Marc:But so they judged you, but they didn't hold you.
Marc:They didn't think you were.
Marc:They got along with you still?
Guest:Yeah, it was like as long as I didn't bring it up.
Guest:It was okay.
Guest:So I was kind of really able to just go do work and come home and just be a kid.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For a while, for a while.
Guest:Until I hit high school and then it became really difficult.
Marc:And whose idea was it to act?
Guest:Well, I mean, only the person who discovered me, really.
Guest:My mother had been a model from the time she was quite young, a child model and then a teenage or 27 model.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And she did not like the way she was treated.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So every single one of the kids in my family was scouted.
Guest:But because I'm the last one...
Guest:She always said no.
Guest:But because I'm the last one, my oldest brother at that point was like 13, and he was just like, you should definitely let her try this.
Guest:Why would you say no?
Guest:So she was sort of pressured by the older kids, and I was the only one who was really allowed to go and try it.
Marc:What do you mean scouted?
Marc:How does that happen?
Guest:Somebody comes up and is like, your kid is amazing.
Guest:I'm a casting director.
Guest:We think you should blah, blah, blah.
Guest:In my case, it was somebody who was very close with a manager for children and whose son also was already acting.
Marc:And where'd they see you?
Guest:I was in a school play.
Marc:And was that the same with the other siblings?
Guest:No, they would just be like out.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, approached.
Guest:The thing is, all the kids in my family kind of look exactly the same.
Guest:And we were all incredibly verbal as children.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And very, I think, outgoing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's the kind of kid that does get scouched.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I just picture these scouts are just driving around.
Guest:They're just all over the place waiting.
Marc:Yeah, and they just see a school and they're like, well, there's some.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think it happens as much anymore, but I guess it's an old-fashioned type of thing, the scouting.
Marc:But where'd they see your brothers?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Just out?
Guest:Out places?
Marc:They weren't in a play or anything?
Guest:I don't have the details.
Marc:Oh, it's so wild.
Marc:That seems so random to me.
Marc:You see scouts around, then you've got to meet with your parents.
Guest:It's true.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I've never asked any detailed questions about what happened with the other ones.
Marc:But they didn't end up doing anything.
Guest:No.
Guest:My mom always said no.
Marc:Oh, she drew a line.
Guest:And she said no with me, too.
Guest:But then they said, no, no, no.
Guest:It's not fair.
Guest:You have to let her try.
Marc:Because she was afraid based on her life?
Guest:Yes, based on her experience.
Marc:In modeling, which was awful, I guess, even back then.
Guest:Yeah, and they said to her, well, it's gotta be different, and she's a kid, and it's not like she's gonna be a model, so they let me try, and this is what happened.
Marc:What specifically was your mom afraid of, do you think, in terms of like... I just think the whole thing.
Marc:Yeah, being objectified, having to maintain a look, a weight, and all that shit.
Guest:Yeah, and she has really funny, like if you ask, my mom is really funny, and I used to ask her why she hated modeling so much, and wasn't it fun, and you were a model during the time of Andy Warhol and all that stuff.
Marc:Was she in New York during that time?
Guest:Yes, and so I asked her about this when I was a teenager, and she was like, oh no, it was terrible, you couldn't go anywhere.
Guest:There were all these parties where they would drug models and make them have sex with dogs, so apparently that's what she was afraid of.
Marc:The dogs.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That sounds like one of those urban myths that was just enough to keep her at home.
Guest:Kept those ladies at home in their apartments.
Marc:Was she like a big model?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I mean, not like a huge model.
Guest:She was a mod.
Guest:She was, you know, at the time of mod style.
Guest:And she was the same size as Twiggy.
Guest:So she was Twiggy's U.S.
Guest:fit model.
Marc:Really?
Guest:So they'd fit all the clothes on her before Twiggy would fly in and stuff like that.
Marc:I guess that's kind of bittersweet.
Marc:Did she know Twiggy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and I think she, I know that, I mean, I feel that she's proud of her modeling work.
Marc:So what play were you doing when you got the big break?
Guest:It was an interpretation of the song, The Twelve Days of Christmas.
Guest:An interpretation?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:An artistic, like avant-garde interpretation?
Guest:No.
Guest:It wasn't terribly avant-garde.
Guest:It was like four kids in the corner of a stage.
Guest:One of them's complaining about what they got for Christmas.
Guest:All they wanted was a basketball.
Guest:On the first day I got, and then the second grade class would come out and do a dance about two turtle doves and stuff like that.
Marc:Not cutting edge.
Guest:Not cutting edge.
Guest:I will say the way I got the lead was a little advanced.
Guest:I used to, well, not used to, but I was upset that I didn't get the lead in the play because I felt the second we started exploring acting, I felt like I just knew what to do and I was naturally really good at this.
Guest:And the lead was a boy and it annoyed me that it had to be a boy.
Guest:And so I provoked the boy into hitting me and then I told on him and I got the lead.
Marc:And they pushed him out.
Marc:Wow, that's almost like mob stuff.
Guest:I mean, and what's weird is that I always look back and I'm like, is this a story?
Guest:Have I changed this story?
Guest:You set them up.
Guest:Was I not?
Guest:Like, maybe I wasn't.
Guest:It didn't intentionally happen, but in my mind, I've made it intentional.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I really do remember...
Guest:This was the plan.
Guest:Trying to get him in trouble.
Guest:This was the plan.
Guest:I don't know if I knew I would get the part, but I definitely wanted to get him in trouble.
Marc:Well, I think it may be, depending on how ambitious you are, that could last a lifetime, those tactics.
Guest:But I'm not ambitious at all anymore.
Guest:I think all the drive has just sucked right out of me.
Guest:And now I'm not even competitive.
Guest:So it's weird, because how was I so competitive then?
Guest:But whatever.
Marc:Why wouldn't you be?
Marc:You were a kid and you wanted to do it.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:You know?
Marc:So you did commercials first?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Commercials, some TV stuff, voiceover, stuff like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then with the big break with the Addams Family?
Guest:No.
Guest:This movie I did called Mermaids with Cher.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:I was nine.
Marc:I just watched a video of Cher singing Satisfaction by the Rolling Stones.
Marc:It must have been in the early 70s.
Marc:She's fucking amazing.
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:And I have to say, one of the most incredible people still to this day that I've ever met.
Guest:Just a good person.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:A good, realistic, practical person.
Marc:And solid, confident, and totally her own thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's kind of wild.
Guest:Yeah, she's amazing.
Guest:Amazing.
Marc:Do you remember working with her?
Guest:Yes, I worked with her.
Guest:I would go, she'd have me come over for sleepovers.
Guest:I would spend weekends at her house in Malibu.
Guest:I mean, she was just so lovely.
Guest:And when I was doing the movie, what was amazing is that she, I wasn't just some kid that was like around.
Guest:She saw me as a human being and was like, oh, you must be really confused about what's going on.
Guest:Let me explain all this to you.
Guest:And she literally would explain everything to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Everything.
Guest:And if it was something she couldn't explain in front of people, she'd take me in her trailer and explain it to me.
Guest:She was amazing.
Marc:Like what?
Guest:Well, there was this whole thing going on at one point where they were replacing the director.
Guest:And she didn't want me to feel worried or there was stuff going on.
Guest:And she was like, also, you're in this movie too.
Guest:You should know what's happening.
Guest:So she'd have production meetings in her trailer and she'd hide me in the back so that I could hear what was going on.
Guest:Which is amazing to do with a kid.
Guest:Just be like, you're also an actor in this movie.
Guest:You should know what's happening and here's what's going on.
Marc:And sometimes she'd explain if you didn't understand things in the scene.
Guest:Yeah, little things in the scene.
Guest:I was really confused about... I remember people having to cry on camera.
Guest:I was like, how is that going to happen?
Guest:I really did not... Because I literally had no acting training at all.
Marc:You're just going by instinct.
Guest:And she walked, well, I was just a kid.
Guest:They were like, say this line.
Guest:Oh, it sounds natural.
Guest:Great.
Guest:Get in here.
Guest:So she sort of like walked me through different processes and her process.
Marc:Of crying?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was really amazing.
Marc:Did it work?
Guest:I think so.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I'm not sure.
Marc:So is that how the sort of process of you kind of putting some sort of craft together was just picking up?
Guest:Other people.
Guest:Other people's things.
Guest:And I'd see someone do something and I'd be like, oh, that looks like that would really work.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I'm going to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just choices?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:I worked with this amazing actor, Scott Wilson, on Monster.
Guest:And even though I was already 22, he did this incredible thing where he shook his hands out as he got more and more distressed.
Guest:And just watching him do that made me feel distressed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I picked that up.
Guest:I do that now when I need to start feeling distressed.
Guest:It's a tool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have just kind of cobbled together a whole thing.
Marc:But you never actually studied with anybody?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I wanted to, but at the time that I wanted to, I was told not to do it just in case somebody ruined what I was already good at, which I don't think was really the intention.
Marc:These were your people?
Guest:I think at a certain point there was an idea of not having anyone get too much control over me.
Marc:Oh, and that was when you were a kid.
Guest:My 20s.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, like, you just wrote out The Addams Family and Casper with just, you know, just instinct.
Guest:Just basics, but if you actually watch Casper, I'm terrible in it.
Guest:People get so upset when I say that, because I'm like, no, it's a wonderful movie.
Guest:I know you, because it's a childhood treasure for people.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Guest:But I am terrible in it.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why do you think that?
Guest:Well, I was 13.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Everything was changing.
Guest:There was a lot going on in my life.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, I was 13.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everything was very difficult.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And I was just always annoyed.
Guest:And I just don't think I tried very hard, to tell you the truth.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Embarrassingly, I have to say.
Marc:Autopiloted it?
Guest:I don't think I tried as hard as maybe I should have.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:Well, I mean, I guess they're, like, and that didn't feed the character?
Guest:Well, I mean, she is supposed to be, like, an obnoxious teen.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:But there are times, like, I've seen it.
Guest:I don't know why I saw it recently.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, because I was showing my son.
Guest:And I remember just thinking, like, wow, that was not a good, no, not a believable line reading at all.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's just, like...
Marc:yeah no commitment not a lot of commitment sure but you were 13 exactly give yourself a break exactly and you were I bastard out of Carolina that's a that's heavy yeah I like had one scene and I came to do it because Angelica Houston was directing it and she asked me to come because you were with her in the Amazon cameo yeah how she is a director
Guest:She was amazing.
Guest:She was wonderful to work with.
Guest:I mean, Angelica, again, much like Cher, was somebody who was just so, just really included me as a child and was interested in speaking to me and taught me things and, you know, different things than Cher.
Guest:She was a different person, different kind of actress, interested in different aspects of being an actress, which I also thought was really interesting to see.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like what?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, just like different things.
Guest:Like Angelica taught me about photo kills.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Cher had never, ever mentioned photo kills.
Guest:I don't even know what it is.
Guest:I'd never seen her do any in her trailer.
Guest:But we used to have to sit there with, it was from the stills photographer.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And you'd sit there with contact sheet and a wax pen and a light box and you'd cross out physically your kills.
Marc:Oh, oh.
Guest:Because you're allowed like 70% approval or something like that or whatever percentage.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:For the promo stuff.
Guest:But like that kind of thing, I've never seen that.
Guest:And like the sort of things that Angelica had to wear versus what Sharon had to wear and the way she got ready in the morning versus the way, like it was just interesting, especially as a little girl watching women in my profession and the different ways in which they were professional.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So how were your parents dealing with this?
Guest:My mom was with me when I traveled.
Guest:Always?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she was great.
Guest:Actually, a lot of the reason why I was successful early on was because my mother was so professional.
Guest:Because they would not cast children who had difficult parents.
Guest:And my mom was a great person to work with.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because she kind of knew.
Guest:She was very, my mom is very, you know, practical and was just, was great at how my behavior should be on set.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And your dad was out of the picture?
Guest:No, my dad was back at home with the other kids.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did they stay together?
Guest:They did not.
Guest:They were divorced when I was 13.
Yeah.
Marc:Oh, so that's the Casper problem.
Guest:Although I was thrilled.
Guest:We were all thrilled when they finally got there.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was one of those situations.
Marc:Where all the kids were like, when is it going to... Well, yeah, exactly.
Marc:Because it was just terrible?
Guest:Yeah, it was not a good house.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:No.
Marc:What, yelling?
Guest:Yeah, and my dad had been a primal scream therapist.
Guest:What?
Guest:Who developed a bit of a cult following.
Guest:So you can imagine that sort of personality with four children.
Marc:So is this something he did later in his career, the primal scream thing?
Guest:No, this was early.
Marc:Oh, so it was before you made the run for Montauk?
Guest:It was before he formed a business with people who were in his primal scream therapy group.
Guest:And then, surprisingly, amazingly, I can't believe it, everything went nuts.
Marc:So he's a primal scream therapist.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's a licensed therapist?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, it is not.
Guest:Especially in different states.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:So was he a screaming person?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Wow.
Marc:So did he just rationalize that as this is how you're supposed to express yourself?
Guest:Yes, because depression was anger turned inward.
Guest:So if you don't get it out, you might accidentally just get quiet and sad instead of screaming at someone.
Guest:God forbid we get quiet and sad instead of screaming at people.
Guest:Instead of making everyone sad.
Guest:He'd yell that sometimes and I'd be like, I mean, I feel like it'd be better if we were all just in our beds.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Like if we were not yelling at each other.
Guest:but so that's like it's that's its own fucking nightmare right but it's also kind of funny because after like the legitimate business kind of when we left he would sometimes do group therapy in the basement of the house we were living in so like everyone would have to go to bed at like 9am
Guest:and then the people would start coming and you'd hear them like milling in downstairs and go down to the basement and he had attempted to quote unquote soundproof the basement but really all he did was like tape some thick thing to the basement door completely forgetting about the vents in the house so at like around 9.30 I'd start hearing like I hate him!
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because he's an asshole!
Guest:Why is he an asshole?
Guest:Because he's a fucking motherfucking asshole!
Guest:And so then in the morning, I'd come down and my mother would be like sitting there drinking her coffee.
Guest:And I'd start going, I fucking hate you.
Guest:We would do like a whole funny imitate.
Guest:I would imitate it in the morning.
Marc:The patients in the basement.
Marc:And that was like four or five people yelling?
Guest:It'd be like six or seven.
Guest:It seemed like a lot more people than four or five.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:And they would go through like role playing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like tell me what he did that you hate so much.
Guest:Well, you fucked my son.
Marc:So you got a real education from yelling people in the basement.
Guest:Yeah, and surprisingly, me and my mom, we all thought it was funny.
Marc:I think you would have to.
Marc:You have to.
Marc:You have enough distance from it to think it's funny.
Guest:It's too ridiculous.
Marc:But your dad just screamed and yelled, but he wasn't boozy or anything?
Guest:I mean, you know.
Marc:It all goes together, huh?
Marc:I guess.
Marc:So that was the relief of them getting sick.
Guest:Yeah, yes.
Guest:And he was very controlling and dominant and wanted followers and a narcissist and all that fun stuff.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:A person who wants to cultivate a cult is pretty much a narcissist.
Marc:That was his plan.
Marc:Yeah, oh, for sure.
Guest:People who are inspired by other cult leaders are not healthy.
Guest:Oh, he had cult heroes?
Guest:Well, I don't know, but ultimately what happened, you know.
Guest:And my mom actually met him because she was one of his clients.
Guest:So she's described the first time she went to one of the sessions, and it sounds pretty culty to me.
Marc:Oh, did he ever succeed in amassing?
Guest:He had a mini cult.
Guest:He did?
Uh-huh.
Guest:It was a mini one.
Marc:Mini?
Marc:Like what, 12 people?
Guest:I think probably like 30.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:They used to have parties at the house and he would later then criticize their behavior.
Marc:To them or to you guys?
Guest:To them.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:He'd tell them things they needed to work on socially.
Marc:His brain fucked him.
Marc:He made them dependent.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I'm assuming it didn't end well, ultimately, for that guy.
Guest:I mean, those types of things never seem to end well.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I, you know, narcissism is one thing, but Jesus, the extended narcissism that involves everyone else.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So like, what did you find that coming out of that you had to, what did it leave you with that you had to like excise from your being?
Guest:Yeah, well, yeah, I had a lot of trouble.
Guest:I have a lot of trouble with being overly compassionate and empathetic and not seeing sort of that whole myth of people who are hurt.
Marc:Hurt people?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Hurt people hurt people?
Guest:But meaning that if you're just really nice to them, they won't, you know, just being really nice to the dog that actually bites everybody.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:Just because you're nice to that dog, that dog's still going to bite you type of thing.
Marc:But with people.
Guest:But with people.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:Yes, it's a metaphor.
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:I know to stay away from the actual dogs.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, because they're limited in their capacity to charm.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah, so I had to sort of...
Marc:Boundaries, huh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just, I think that when your father is somebody like that, you, well, for me, it was difficult for me to not love that person.
Marc:Well, that's a trick, right?
Guest:And that's the problem is that then when you see people who exhibit similar behavior, it triggers a similar kind of like empathy and compassion.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And maybe guilt that you feel for your parent that can't fix their life.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All that stuff.
Guest:And it can leave you a little bit exposed.
Guest:So I had to sort of learn to correct all that stuff, which I'm still not great at.
Guest:So I'm actually just very protective about who I'm around.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I mean, I know I sense things from somebody.
Guest:I just won't talk to them again because I feel very vulnerable.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, they may not know that.
Guest:No, exactly.
Marc:But like, and it's weird about, you know, I used to do bits about it, about psychic vampires and how they exist, but they don't know they're that.
Guest:No.
Marc:So you sort of got to go like, I'm sorry, I just can never talk to you again.
Guest:You seem to need way too much specific attention.
Marc:Yeah, and the whole boundary thing.
Marc:Because when you have volatile... My dad was fairly narcissistic, and he was a doctor, but he's not a cult guy.
Marc:But they're volatile.
Marc:You don't know what the fuck's going to happen.
Marc:And then you've got it in your head that you love them.
Marc:And then if something is wrong between you and them, you blame yourself, and you build this other parent inside your head that's like, oh, you're terrible, you're awful.
Marc:And then you grow a dependency on these lunatics.
Marc:It takes a long time to...
Marc:exercise that shit.
Guest:It really does.
Guest:And I don't know that you ever actually are able to.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I think that I've learned just like coping.
Guest:I think the best thing I've been able to do is recognize that I need to protect myself from how vulnerable I am to certain kinds of manipulation.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's like, but when you have the crazy parent or the abusive one, the emotionally abusive one, you're vulnerable to the worst fucking people.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And that's the problem.
Marc:And you like them.
Marc:You're like, wow, that person seems exciting.
Guest:They feel familiar.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:And now I got to get it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've been in a situation with people with women, like a borderline personality.
Marc:It's sort of like, she was so exciting right up until I got the restraining order.
Yeah.
Guest:It's the worst.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:But like, and no one can tell you different.
Marc:Like, you know, you have people in your life that should have been like, you know, we knew she was like, well, then why didn't someone say anything?
Guest:I know.
Guest:And you feel like.
Guest:Some of us need electric shock therapy.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Or just like the collar.
Guest:So when you're like.
Marc:I couldn't believe it.
Marc:Anyway, so we're doing better?
Guest:Yeah, and I feel like you have to be burned like that a couple times, not just once.
Guest:It has to escalate.
Guest:Each one has to get progressively worse until you're finally like, oh, and now I can sense those people and I literally feel repelled.
Guest:So that's good.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I think I finally crossed that threshold.
Marc:After two, I think, categorically borderline people,
Marc:Like another one came at me and initially I was like, oh, this is exciting.
Marc:And then like it just something was just like one sentence.
Marc:I'm like, oh, my God.
Marc:No, this is this is going to this is how this is going to go.
Marc:I know exactly what's going to happen.
Guest:Did you react to that?
Guest:Did you get it?
Marc:Good.
Guest:Because I've had that moment.
Guest:And then the other part of me who's across the room is like, yeah, but let's see what happens.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Kind of exciting.
Guest:This is really going on.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It seemed fun.
Guest:You know, wait, is this really going on right now?
Guest:I have to see how this ends.
Marc:But here's the fucked up thing, though, if you want me to be honest.
Marc:It's like, yeah, I was able to see it and then just say, look, I can't.
Marc:We can't have lunch.
Marc:I don't want.
Marc:And this was during COVID.
Marc:We were going to have lunch or something because it was all texting.
Marc:And she kind of knew friends that I knew, common friends and stuff.
Marc:So I'm like, all right, she's got to be okay.
Marc:And then it just happened.
Marc:I'm like, I can't do anything.
Marc:I can't talk to you.
Marc:It's like, I've had, I'm in recovery, this, that, okay.
Marc:And then she sent me a barrage of the most abusive shit that I've ever seen in my life.
Marc:And I barely knew her, but I was like, wow.
Guest:So, yeah, so she really helped you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I took it.
Marc:But that's it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I put all those texts on my screen.
Guest:Perfect.
Marc:So I wouldn't.
Guest:I used to be someone who deleted the crazy text because I just didn't want to.
Guest:I would be like, oh, well, that was that's really unpleasant.
Guest:Let's just pretend that didn't happen.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:I save them in case something horrible happens.
Guest:Well, now I have learned to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But in the past, I'd be like, oh, I don't want this.
Guest:I don't want to get out of here.
Guest:Delete it.
Marc:Well, here's the fucked up part of the story is a year later.
Marc:She's like, hey, what's up?
Marc:And I'm like, not much.
Guest:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I got sucked back in for just for a minute.
Guest:OK.
Marc:And then it got terrible.
Marc:It got very terrible very quickly.
Marc:And it seems to be OK now.
Guest:I'm always grateful now.
Guest:I feel like in life you should be grateful for the ones that reveal themselves really fast.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:As long as you can listen to it and know what it is and get away from it, which that's the hard part.
Marc:But I don't know that everybody knows what you feel because it's a type of empath.
Marc:It's not I don't think it's a broad empathy, but you are empathetic for the type of person that most people are like, no.
Guest:Yes, they have a natural.
Guest:I'm not talking to you, too.
Guest:I know I was trying to explain this to somebody else, but it's it's our responses that keep the thing going.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And a response that we have from obviously.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's immediately now as you get hip to it, it's immediately terrifying.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like I've never like as soon as it happens, you're like, I'm already I'm already in trouble.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I find that not only in romantic relationships.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And I. Yeah.
Guest:Dynamics at work.
Guest:All that stuff.
Guest:And it is really it's really interesting.
Guest:I've learned to just be someone who's very removed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For the most part.
Marc:And did you, like, because I still have, like, I get, like, I have a way of existing in the world, but, like, I get very consumed with dread and panic about just about shit, about people.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:I have a really hard time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, this sounds really crazy.
Guest:I know I sound like a crazy lady when I say this.
Guest:Not at all.
Guest:But I have a really hard time.
Guest:Like, I will just joke with my husband and my friends and just, like, after a day of anything, like, oh, it's just too much humanity.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:too much driving around the streets and seeing homeless people and and seeing people so miserable everywhere you go all the time and then thinking about i think about my own death quite a bit i think do you know yes what the point of my life like all these existential things that are supposed to be like young person musings like i'm still obsessed with yeah and it really as you walk through life it really at the it
Guest:You just feel like you're underwater sometimes.
Guest:I agree.
Guest:It's a lot.
Guest:And the empathy can be a lot because if you are very empathetic, too many people and too much misery.
Guest:They get in there.
Marc:They climb inside.
Guest:You can't even escape it now.
Marc:No, no, you can't.
Marc:And for me, what really kills me is animals.
Guest:Yes, I can't handle it at all.
Marc:If I hear about animals, like hurting.
Guest:Children and animals, I can't.
Marc:That's gotten really worse, the animal thing.
Marc:If I read a thing about, like there was some story today about a whale who jumped on a boat.
Marc:I'm like, I can't even look at it.
Marc:I don't know why he did it, but it couldn't have been a good reason.
Marc:It's just sad.
Guest:It's so sad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But yeah, I still eat a hamburger.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, that's the thing.
Guest:I really love animals.
Guest:But yes, I still... It's starting to bother me a little bit.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's a tough thing.
Guest:I know.
Marc:You know, because we detach from that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That sort of like industry of pain.
Marc:But the other thing about with the people and what you're talking about, like the thinking about your own death and stuff, like...
Marc:It's very hard to compartmentalize all that stuff, and you know it's going on inside you, but you just got to be out in the world sort of like, hey, how's it going?
Marc:You need to keep going.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I used to, when my son was two or three, we'd be getting ready for school or something.
Guest:He'd start like, I don't want to.
Guest:I feel this.
Guest:And I would say to him, sometimes we just have to do, not feel.
Guest:It's not time to feel.
Guest:It's time to do, and we can remember everything we felt, and we'll talk about it later.
Marc:Right, the act as if.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I feel like that's a lot of life right now.
Guest:It's just like, all right, we're going to go do this.
Guest:We have to.
Guest:And then afterwards, I'm going to feel stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you get depressed or just like really sad?
Guest:I don't.
Guest:I have really horrible anxiety.
Marc:Yeah, how does it manifest itself?
Marc:Dread.
Guest:I get dread.
Guest:I'm like a hypervigilance.
Guest:And I have a lot of dread as well.
Guest:Just like for everything.
Guest:I try to combat that by being overprepared for everything.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:How does that work out?
Guest:I mean, I'm usually not late for stuff.
Guest:I usually book things months in advance.
Guest:I usually at least have a little bit of conversation prepared before I get to a place.
Marc:Oh, so it's like a control thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like you feel, I'm prepared, then I don't have to freak about that.
Guest:Yeah, it's just too much chaos.
Guest:I feel constant chaos swirling around me when there's nothing going on.
Marc:That's from people screaming in the basement.
Guest:From never knowing what to expect.
Marc:Yeah, that's exactly it.
Marc:You go either way, it seems, when you have that kind of upbringing.
Marc:Either you become the control person or you become a chaotic fucking mess.
Guest:Yeah, and I'm going to make a mix of both.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think that's why.
Guest:It's like I know I can be such a chaotic mess that I know if I'm not vigilant, it's all going to just... How did that manifest itself in your life, chaotic mess?
Marc:At what point?
Guest:I was just like a wild animal in my early 20s, late teens, early 20s.
Guest:Literally a feral creature.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Was it because of the transition from child acting?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I think that probably all of the pressure and anxiety, weight of the realizations of being a young person and all of that stuff together, I think, was so much that I...
Guest:couldn't stand to actually worry about it or feel it.
Guest:So I just was like, I'm going to be punk rock and I'm going to be nuts.
Marc:When did that start?
Guest:Like when I was like 16.
Marc:Oh yeah?
Marc:And then there was scrutiny on you as an actress because people were probably like, what's she going to do now?
Guest:I guess so.
Guest:I mean, people, I had a very unpleasant way of being interviewed when I was younger, which made me sort of popular in terms of like, oh, she's going to say crazy stuff.
Guest:Let's put her in more outlets.
Guest:Let's make more opportunities for this young woman to completely embarrass herself in perpetuity.
Marc:With the struggling young woman who's having a hard time.
Guest:Yeah, because the internet is just starting.
Guest:So, you know, let's make sure she remembers this the rest of her life.
Guest:I just said crazy, dumb things.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:On purpose?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Because I also had that attitude of like, I'm 18.
Guest:I didn't even go to college.
Guest:Why are you asking me what I think about anything?
Guest:You're not allowed to say that to people.
Guest:So instead, I would just say really sarcastic or shocking.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Dumb things.
Guest:Dumb.
Guest:So, yeah.
Marc:And you got a reputation.
Guest:A little bit.
Marc:But ultimately, like once you got into your late teens, you did feel like you were kind of out of control.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like with what?
Marc:Like booze?
Guest:Well, just everything.
Guest:I was always late for everything, and I couldn't sometimes make it to things purely from social anxiety or being overwhelmed.
Guest:I wouldn't be prepared for work.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Not in a way that I think other people noticed, but I felt it.
Guest:But for you.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And yeah, I did.
Guest:I went, you know, and we'd go on these trips, and then there'd be partying, and then we'd like,
Guest:And really fun experiences, too, where you're on location in some motel in the middle of the desert.
Guest:Everyone's just partying the whole time and working.
Guest:And that's fine when you're 17.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:I don't know how people do it.
Guest:Well, I could do it then.
Guest:But it took me so long to parent myself into a functioning adult that because I finally did it, now I think from then on I've been vigilant about...
Guest:This is no I'm never going to fall back into chaos again.
Marc:Did you find you had to like because I'm hung up on sort of what I was talking about before a little bit that you know that there's some some part like if you had weird parents or one way there's some part of you that blames yourself when you're young.
Marc:So the sort of inner parent that you put in place is a judgmental one.
Marc:Did you find that you had to like replace the inner parent in yourself?
Guest:I mean, I still haven't.
Guest:She's not that nice to me, but I sometimes feel like it's good.
Guest:I do need a kick in the pants every once in a while.
Guest:A rough hand.
Marc:So what do you think in terms of your crazier times where you were at your most out of control, what movies that you did represent that time?
Guest:Well, I don't think you could ever tell in my movies, but I guess the most chaotic and emotionally out of control, all that stuff I was, was when I was making Prozac Nation, this movie I did, based on that book.
Guest:And I didn't really, having not had any acting training, really, and not really...
Guest:I've never been a person that seeks advice from people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or wants... I just have never been someone that looked for guidance.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I just decided to do this really difficult emotional piece completely on my own.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had seen other actors do things.
Guest:And I had seen a lot of... I'd worked with a lot of male actors that were like, you do whatever you have to do for the scene.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:So you knew the myth of the method.
Guest:And so I was just like, great.
Guest:I was going to get in there and do that.
Guest:And it was really tough to recover from.
Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Like what part of it?
Guest:Well, I think if you're a person who has a complicated emotional history and if you spent every day in a really deep, like depressive, upset, crying state and you never, and you're still like into it, like you stay with it at nighttime.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:You did that whole thing.
Marc:You were able to do that.
Marc:You were able to tell yourself to do that.
Guest:Yeah, to stay a total wreck the whole time.
Guest:And so then it was difficult to get out of that because you've told your brain to do this thing, so it's doing it.
Marc:I imagine that trained actors who do that particular thing have that experience as well.
Guest:Well, I mean, I think that another actor would have warned me not to do it that way or to at least come out of it at nighttime or make sure that you're doing something at night.
Guest:And I just didn't know.
Guest:I just had no idea.
Guest:So I went for it.
Marc:So it stuck a little bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it took me a little while to recover, a couple months.
Marc:Huh.
Guest:So do you feel like now- That was the absolute last time that I have felt that chaos ever.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And maybe you purged it a little.
Guest:Yeah, and I think the recovery from it actually taught... I had to learn how to be an adult while recovering from that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, to put structure in my day and take care of myself and all the things that, like, you learn just by... So that was, like, sort of your bottom.
Guest:I guess.
Marc:Because you did so many movies between... Oh yeah, I was always working.
Marc:There was never a problem.
Marc:Now by the time you get to Monster, I can't imagine what that set was like.
Marc:Charlize, I think everybody was like, what the fuck?
Marc:And you were amazing, but in talking to you now, you were kind of emotionally prepared for that role.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:In a way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To be codependent to somebody that dangerous.
Guest:And manipulative.
Guest:And yeah.
Guest:I've always really been very obsessed with the more manipulative characters, I guess, from my childhood and everything.
Guest:But yeah, I felt... I really loved that character because I felt like I was exploring something that I hadn't understood in my life.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:What specifically?
Guest:Just...
Guest:People who were capable of both that, you know, really using and abusing somebody, but through their own version of what they feel is love.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And this cowardice, this idea of cowardice and survival.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, how some people, no matter what, are still scared animals.
Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also denial, right?
Guest:And denial.
Guest:Denial is a huge part of being able to function for certain people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So that was interesting for me to play that part.
Guest:And that set actually was amazing.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Because Patty Jenkins, the director, was so incredible.
Guest:And Charlize was so incredible.
Guest:And I think because the material was so dark, our natural defense against it, we just laughed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Charlize and I would crack up giggle until Patty called action.
Marc:Really?
Guest:For even the darkest things.
Marc:Huh.
Guest:Because you can't live in that.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But also I imagined that just, you know, out of self-protection.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Humanize those characters, which was the whole trick of that movie was to make that monster a person.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:And I imagine you two laughing must have informed something.
Guest:Yeah, it probably also brought our connection, you could see.
Marc:What was it like to act with her?
Marc:Did you pick things up from her?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, Charlize was so dedicated and so in that character all the time.
Guest:And I was really, I think at that age, really inspired by seeing somebody who was that committed.
Guest:And somebody so known for their beauty kind of being willing to... Yeah.
Guest:To throw it away, to completely eschew any vanity.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And... Vulnerability of that.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And inhabit this person.
Guest:And yeah, I was really...
Guest:I know it sounds like the wrong word to say because it sounds belittling in some way, but I was so enamored and charmed with her passion and commitment and complete immersion.
Guest:It just made me love her so much.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Are you guys buddies?
Guest:No, we're not really still in touch.
Guest:Although when I got my Emmy nomination, she was the first person to send me a congratulatory gift.
Guest:And it was a house plant because I used to always say I was botanophobic.
Guest:So she sent me an indoor plant.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Because you kill plants?
Marc:Or why are you botanophobic?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't like the idea of bringing in dirt into the house on purpose.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:That's very specific.
Guest:I don't like ferns because they have spores, which I feel like is a little rapey.
Marc:So no shoes in your house, I'm assuming.
Guest:No, I wear shoes.
Marc:In the house.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It doesn't make sense.
Marc:But don't bring dirt into the house on purpose.
Marc:Do you have pets?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:What do you got?
Guest:I have two dogs.
Guest:We have two dogs.
Guest:Well, two dogs, a co-share on a dog with my mother and a cat.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So when you look back on the process now and everything you've learned and been through in the acting,
Marc:Because, like, I think this role on Yellow Jackets is really great work.
Marc:I mean, I feel like you did great work.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:You know, like, it looks like you really put something together that's not, you know, it's organic, yet very defined and quirky and disturbing.
Guest:Well, that's the thing.
Guest:I always wanted her to feel like somebody you might have had contact with at some point in your life.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And that person that you're sort of like, oh, what a weirdo.
Guest:I wonder what it'd be like to go home with that person.
Guest:And this is what she's like.
Marc:This is what that person's like.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You look surprised when I said there's comedic beats between you and Juliet.
Guest:No, no, I'm not surprised.
Guest:I have difficult with comedy because I think I get so enmeshed
Guest:with the character that then I feel defensive for the character, like she's being laughed at.
Guest:So sometimes, like the whole time we were making the show, the whole season, people would be like, you're so funny, you're so funny, and I'm just like, ah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:It probably made the character better.
Guest:Well, I mean, I do have a problem where sometimes I make choices from the ego of the character, and I have to be very aware of this.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:But that scene where you finally get that guy to come home with you and she's sitting there with the gun.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That moment where he's like, yeah, I get it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was hilarious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We had a really good time.
Guest:There's stuff that's cut out that's funny.
Guest:When she discovers her boyfriend dead, she...
Guest:in the crying scene we shot a lot more of it and one in a number of the takes she would like hit me and so that I would hit her back and it turned into this like really funny weird sister thing that I think informed a lot of stuff that came after it's just so it's so wild because she is so weird and raw just by nature and you're like just like so controlled it's so you guys should do a spinoff
Guest:It is funny because she is, in real life, I guess we are a bit like that too.
Guest:She is much more, much wilder than me, just in personality.
Guest:I don't know how to describe it.
Guest:Freer.
Guest:Freer, looser, more reactive.
Guest:And I, myself, am way more contained.
Guest:So yeah, I guess that dynamic did really come from life.
Marc:Yeah, that's why it works.
Marc:That's why it felt human to me.
Marc:The emotional dynamic between you two is genuine.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because stuff happens in the show, and I think with all those shows, you're like, how'd her face heal so quickly?
Marc:I mean, there's no way.
Guest:That's my job at any set, by the way.
Guest:I am the party pooper.
Guest:I'll be like, it would never look like that.
Guest:It would never look like that.
Guest:That's not how things break.
Guest:Just so you know.
Guest:Hey, just so you know that last take, you were totally doing it wrong.
Marc:You got to keep that in your head?
Marc:I'm just kidding.
Guest:I mean, I do it as a joke, but I don't actually do that to actors.
Marc:I like the casual approach to all the gore and blood and shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I thought that was kind of interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just sort of matter of fact of it all.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It makes it so much stronger, I think.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So when you look back on the whole stretch of everything, what's some of the movies or stuff you're most proud of for you?
Marc:Casper's not one of them.
Marc:Monster is.
Marc:I mean...
Guest:I am proud of Casper for what it means to quite a few people.
Marc:Sure, but you're just not happy with yourself.
Guest:I was not very good at that.
Guest:I did this movie called The Ice Storm with Ang Lee.
Guest:That's the best movie.
Guest:It's really a beautiful, beautiful movie.
Guest:And I remember seeing it at Lincoln Center and crying and being really proud of myself.
Guest:And I don't think I had felt like that ever before that premiere.
Guest:So that movie I still am really proud of.
Marc:I think it's an under-celebrated movie.
Marc:Yeah, I agree.
Marc:The poetry of the thing is just incredible.
Guest:Yeah, it's so beautiful.
Marc:And that generation of parents, the worst.
Marc:Then that's like, those are the ones.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Yep, it's them.
Guest:They're the ones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so that one I feel really proud of.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:I'm really proud.
Guest:I'm actually really proud of Misty, Yellow Jacket.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In a way that I haven't really been proud of anything, I don't think, ever before.
Guest:Because I feel like it's the first time I've sort of maturely and without all of, like...
Guest:unnecessary turmoil created something.
Guest:With other people, obviously.
Guest:The writers ultimately create the character.
Guest:But I feel like it's the first time that from a very calm and present, mature place and with as little ego as I could manage, made something that I feel really good about.
Guest:So that's great and new.
Guest:And I know I'm old to have that experience for the first time.
Guest:No, are you kidding?
Marc:No.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:Like, yeah, you've got it together enough to appreciate.
Marc:And you don't have to take any massive risks.
Guest:No, and it was calm.
Guest:There was no drama.
Guest:There was no drama about creating this character.
Guest:It was simply like being a person with a brain and emotion and skill.
Guest:Instead of like all the other things that have just, you're like, why was that so difficult?
Guest:Why?
Guest:Why were things so difficult?
Marc:They are until they aren't, I guess.
Guest:Yeah, I guess so.
Marc:But great job.
Marc:Great talking to you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you so much.
Marc:That was pleasant.
Marc:Again, Christina is nominated for Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series at the Emmys.
Marc:Yellow Jackets is on Showtime On Demand now.
Marc:You can watch the entire first season.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Hang out for a second, will you?
Marc:Just stay there.
Marc:One sec.
Marc:So look, on Thursday, I talked to Gerard Carmichael.
Marc:This is his second appearance.
Marc:We seem to be doing that now.
Marc:There's some people I haven't talked to in over a decade.
Marc:If you want to hear his first appearance from 2015, it's now available in the free podcast feed.
Marc:Wherever you're listening to this, you can go back to episode 631 and check out his first appearance.
Marc:Folks with WTF Plus subscriptions can listen to it ad-free.
Marc:Get that by going to the link in the episode description.
Marc:With Gerard, a lot has changed for the guy since he was on.
Marc:He directed his first movie.
Marc:He has an Emmy-nominated stand-up special.
Marc:He hosted SNL.
Marc:And on the personal front, he came out.
Marc:So lots to talk about.
Marc:I'm in Lincoln, Nebraska at the Rococo Theater on August 18th.
Marc:Des Moines, Iowa at the Hoyt Sherman Place on August 19th.
Marc:And Iowa City, Iowa at the Inglert Theater on August 20th.
Marc:I'm in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater on September 16th.
Marc:Phoenix, Arizona at Stand Up Live on September 17th.
Marc:Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theater on September 22nd.
Marc:Fort Collins, Colorado at the Lincoln Center on September 23rd.
Marc:And Toronto, Ontario at the Queen Elizabeth Theater on September 30th and October 1st.
Marc:London, England and Dublin, Ireland.
Marc:I'll be coming to you in October.
Marc:And as I mentioned at the beginning of the show, I have new dates for November and December in Oklahoma City, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Eugene, Oregon, Bend, Oregon, Asheville, North Carolina and Nashville, Tennessee.
Marc:Go to WTF pod dot com slash tour for all dates and ticket info.
Marc:And now, like, I'm I'm finding a tone, man.
Marc:Here it is.
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Thank you.
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so
Thank you.
Guest:Boomer lives.
Guest:Monkey.
Guest:La Fonda.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere.
Guest:Alright, alright, alright.