Episode 1352 - Zainab Johnson
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it today on the show is uh is a comedian zaynab johnson i didn't know her and i just started seeing her at the comedy store and i'm like there's an entire generation of comics i don't know i have no i didn't and i you know she's funny she's uh a powerful
Marc:presence she's on the prime video series upload which is created by greg daniels and she'll be performing on my gala in montreal this saturday uh and so i'll see her that's a day after tomorrow but uh but i just started seeing her on the comedy store and i'm like you know i have to talk to this person i i would like to know more about this person so
Marc:I guess I talked to you like these shows were done a little bit in advance because we had to get the week in the can.
Marc:Very busy the day I recorded this.
Marc:I had a lot to do for the week because we had to pre-record some stuff.
Marc:But I get obsessed with little things.
Marc:And some of you know that it's how I keep my fucking life together.
Marc:It's how I it's my spirituality, a certain OCD around small things.
Marc:corrections, and I had bought a watermelon that was not great.
Marc:It was bad in just enough of a way that every bite I would take, it would annoy me that I didn't get a better watermelon or that I didn't throw it away.
Marc:Half of it had a slightly tougher texture than it should be, and it was sweet enough and juicy enough, but half of it was too mushy and the other half was too stiff.
Marc:I don't know how to explain it.
Marc:You don't know what you're going to get, but it sounded correct.
Marc:When I held it to my head and I knocked on the outside, I got the tone I wanted, and I think theoretically it was probably...
Marc:It was it wasn't my mistake.
Marc:It was an illusion.
Marc:Nonetheless, it was sitting in my fridge and I'm in the middle of a busy day and I'm like, fuck it.
Marc:I got to make this right.
Marc:I got to go find a watermelon.
Marc:I enjoy I don't want to because I enjoy watermelon.
Marc:I'm on this sugar detox still and it's the only fruit I can eat that and blueberry.
Marc:So I need a good one.
Marc:I don't need one that makes me feel like I made a bad choice in life.
Marc:I picked the wrong fucking melon.
Marc:If that's the worst choice that I've made or the worst decision, it's not even a decision.
Marc:So I was like, fuck this.
Marc:And I got on Instagram live because I've done this before.
Marc:And we went to Vaughn's and I got there.
Marc:I found a melon.
Marc:It was seeded.
Marc:I was making a compromise.
Marc:They didn't have unseeded, but I found one that sounded right.
Marc:I knocked on it and it had the right resonance.
Marc:So I'm like, I'm going to buy this one.
Marc:I walk in, don't have my wallet, don't have my cash.
Marc:So
Marc:I steal the melon.
Marc:I threw the melon in my car.
Marc:I got the hot melon in the car and I get home with the hot melon and I'm torn.
Marc:I'm like, that's my community Vons.
Marc:I've just videoed me stealing from the Vons.
Marc:They have footage.
Marc:Be interesting to get both footage together because as the story unfolds, it becomes quite a tale.
Marc:So I'm like, I got to go back and pay.
Marc:So do I get my wallet?
Marc:And when I'm in the house, I realized, no, let's go to the other Vons and see if they have a seedless watermelon that might be better.
Marc:And then just go return the one you stole.
Marc:So but like at least have the option to either pay for it or return it or just keep the stolen metal melon, whatever.
Marc:But buy yourself some time and go to Vons, the other Vons and check their melons.
Marc:So we went to the other Vons.
Marc:I bought a melon there that I think sounded good.
Marc:Brought it home, cut it open pretty good.
Marc:But then I got you know, I've got the hot melon in the car.
Marc:So I bring the hot melon back and return it to the wild.
Marc:It might have been a little traumatized and I know that somebody who gets it is not going to know that that melon had an adventure with a guy who basically took him hostage and they'll be eating like sort of like chunks of trauma, seeded trauma, not seeded, S-E-A-T-E-D, but seeded trauma.
Marc:But nonetheless, I went and released the melon.
Marc:I went back and I realized like, well, maybe that melon, maybe I should get that melon.
Marc:Then I went back.
Marc:Because I felt like I missed him and he might have missed me or they.
Marc:We decided on Mel.
Marc:Mel the melon of they.
Marc:You know, I don't know what genders melons are, but it doesn't matter.
Marc:Gender fluid melon.
Marc:So I go back and I placed it in a certain way that I, you know, no one had been only been five minutes.
Marc:So I went and bought the original melon I stole.
Marc:So this is a really a tale of,
Marc:of a lot of moral conflict.
Marc:It's a tale of a lawless country coming to terms with itself.
Marc:It's a tale of getting away with things, but not getting away with things.
Marc:Ultimately, I made the right choice, but there was a lot of levels working in this piece.
Marc:So if you'd like to go to my Instagram feed and watch The Mellon Heist,
Marc:You know, you can kind of feel the weight of it.
Marc:Feel the weight of, you know, being a criminal for 10 minutes and then turning, you know, and then finding your soul.
Marc:That's what that's about.
Marc:And also getting melons.
Marc:So if that interests you, that's good viewing.
Marc:And I'm going to reach out to Vons to see if I can get the security material because I think it would really add to the film.
Marc:So...
Marc:I'm leaving.
Marc:Well, I'll actually be in Montreal tonight doing my solo show and tomorrow for I think the place only seats like 120 people and the gala.
Marc:I'll let you know how that goes.
Marc:I'm a little nervous about it.
Marc:Only because it's like a big, weird Canadian high profile hosting gig.
Marc:And I can't remember the last time I did one of those.
Marc:Anyway, Zainab Johnson is a peer and somebody I started seeing at the store.
Marc:And I just liked watching her.
Marc:And I was curious about her life.
Marc:And she's a comic, obviously.
Marc:And you can watch her in both seasons of Upload on Prime Video.
Marc:She's also going to be performing on my gala in Montreal this Saturday at Just for Laughs.
Marc:And you can go to ZainabJohnson.com to see where else she's performing next month.
Marc:This is me.
Marc:Me, me, Mark Maron, talking to Zainab Johnson.
Marc:Nice to see you.
Guest:It's good to see you, too.
Guest:Never see a comedian on a Monday morning.
Marc:You don't?
Guest:No.
Guest:you rarely see them during the day yes unless you socialize with them exactly but we live lives i mean i'm an older comic i'm up and doing things i was at um i went to um the id celebration you know what it is no okay so it is like an islamic holiday there's two of them one comes after ramadan after the fact the 30-day fast good i'm learning things
Guest:And I was at the mosque in Culver City, and it's the id celebration.
Guest:And it's the first one I've been to since the pandemic.
Guest:And then I see Asif.
Guest:And he's like, Zaynab.
Guest:And I'm like, this is so strange.
Guest:I mean, we know that we both have this belief in this practice, but I didn't expect to see you here.
Guest:It was strange.
Guest:It was strange but wonderful all at the same time.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:Then we go to the comedy store and then tell a bunch of dick jokes.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Sure, dick jokes.
Marc:Well, that's interesting because that's two, like, I guess it's the same religion but two different communities.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, where does he come from?
Marc:I can't remember.
Guest:I think he's Indian.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I'm black.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it's like, it's always kind of wild to me to know the different, like I'm a Jew, but there's some, you know, more Jewy Jews and less Jewy Jews.
Marc:And then there's Jews that don't do any Jew stuff.
Guest:Yeah, I was in Venice yesterday, was yesterday.
Guest:And I saw, I would call them black or in California, Latinx Israelites.
Guest:How do you feel about that?
Guest:Wow.
Wow.
Marc:The guys in the costumes?
Guest:I mean, are they costumes?
Guest:They definitely look like they're walking through a desert.
Marc:The Israelite people, they're in New York too, right?
Marc:You see them in Times Square.
Marc:I don't know what those outfits are.
Marc:I don't really know...
Marc:what religion they are i don't i don't know that they're representing jewishness okay they're they're doing something else i don't want to judge them too harshly but i know i've i've seen them yelling in times square yeah and i don't i'm not i don't remember listening too intently yeah so i i can't claim them i i can't say they're on the same spectrum as the as i am with the jew thing okay
Guest:I don't have a dog in a fight, nor do I know enough to even- No, me neither.
Marc:I mean, if they were Hasidic people, then I would be like, yes, we're on the same spectrum somehow.
Guest:I grew up with, I didn't grow up with them, obviously, but in the same neighbor.
Guest:I mean, I lived in Williamsburg, and so I definitely saw a lot of Hasidic Jews.
Marc:Yes, I can tell by the mild change in tone that not a great experience.
Marc:Well, and I've gotten like I've gotten some I've gotten into trouble with them occasionally because I talk shit about them a lot.
Guest:OK.
Guest:You know, also, it's like, listen, I'm a New York City kid.
Guest:So all my classmates for a good portion of my, you know, childhood were Jewish kids.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:New York City kids.
Marc:No.
Marc:But you didn't like you lived in Williamsburg later.
Marc:Where'd you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in Harlem, but I was bust out.
Guest:So I went to school on like 84, like downtown, like, you know, like, and so.
Marc:Why were they bust out to there?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I was bust out.
Guest:You know how they take like, you test out of your, you know, get quote unquote ghetto and they put you in a school with all white kids.
Guest:But usually those all white kids are Jewish kids.
Guest:And so in seventh and eighth grade, I went to a bunch of bar and bat mitzvahs.
Guest:Like, yeah, like that was, that was my social life.
Marc:So you tested out because you were a smart kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then they sent you to the Jew field school.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:With the smart Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was in Williamsburg.
Guest:The smart Jews that are not rich because they're still in public school.
Guest:They're not in private school.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So the reasonable Jews that didn't have too much of an attitude.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's wild.
Marc:So you grew up your whole life in Harlem?
Guest:Yeah, I was born in Brooklyn.
Guest:I moved out of Brooklyn when I was five years old.
Guest:I moved to Harlem.
Marc:With your whole family?
Guest:My entire family.
Guest:At the time that I moved, my parents, it was eight of us because they had the twins when we got to Harlem.
Guest:So nine and 10.
Guest:It's 13 of us total.
Marc:That's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, where'd you put all those people?
Guest:You put them in the hallway.
Guest:You put them in the kitchen.
Guest:Really?
Guest:You sleep in the bathroom if you have to.
Guest:Oh, we didn't sleep in the bathroom or the kitchen, but we definitely had bunk beds in the hallway.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm going to just be honest.
Marc:It's like the biggest religion in the world.
Marc:I don't know shit about Islam, really.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:Growing up, as much as I practiced it, I didn't know shit either.
Marc:It's like Jews.
Marc:You just listen to your parents.
Guest:And you follow, you copy what they do.
Guest:But the thing that kind of opened my mind up to religion, period, was I took an elective course in college.
Guest:My favorite courses in college were my electives.
Guest:I took the history of religion.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and it opened me up to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
Guest:And I took like a philosophy class, and that was like... That was it?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you spent a whole life just going along with it, and then sort of it deepened later.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So, okay, so there's a total of how many kids in the house?
Guest:13.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Seven boys, six girls.
Marc:Seven boys, six girls.
Marc:So what business was your dad in or your mom?
Guest:My dad worked for the MTA.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, he worked for the Metropolitan Transit Authority and my mom stayed at home.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So it wasn't easy going.
Guest:No, we were poor.
Yeah.
Marc:We were dirt poor.
Marc:So how did you all manage?
Marc:I mean, I guess it's too broad a question.
Marc:I mean.
Guest:Well, there were different times.
Guest:Like I do remember when it was slightly less of us.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we used to go on.
Guest:We never went on like a family vacation.
Guest:No.
Guest:Never left like the city.
Guest:But like we would travel to Queens to go to like Red Lobster.
Guest:That was like a treat.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or we would.
Marc:But how would you go on the train?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or we would we would go to, you know, take the Detroit all the way to Coney Island.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And like that was a day for us or spend the day in Prospect Park like that was a big deal.
Marc:So there was a time where all of you were underneath beneath the age of 18.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you all that's crazy.
Guest:Yeah, but there were also times where it was really rough.
Guest:Like, I remember times where it's, like, only condiments in a refrigerator.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:You know, like, only condiments in, like, a few slices of bread or, like, heating up our sneakers in, like, the oven.
Guest:Before you went out?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well...
Guest:It's like you can't afford new sneakers.
Guest:Not before you went out, but you can't afford new sneakers at the start of a new school year.
Guest:So you heat them to stretch them?
Guest:Well, you wash them.
Guest:But it's like my parents, I remember in one apartment, we had enough for our first Harlem apartment.
Guest:We had enough for a washing machine, but not a dryer.
Right.
Guest:So it's like we can wash the clothes, but you have to hang them to dry.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, you know, maybe my mom made the mistake of like not managing her time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's like we wash the sneakers the night before the first day of school.
Guest:It's like they're not.
Marc:So that's why they went.
Guest:Yeah, they went in the oven.
Guest:I remember our sneakers.
Marc:I thought it was a practical thing.
Marc:No, it was so cold that we had to get a good start.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:we need to warm our shoes up no just drying them just drying them yeah so all the siblings is everyone still around in touch yeah we're all in touch no one has passed thank god yeah um folks are still around too yeah oh my father passed away when i was like 23 years old i believe yeah yeah um and so but yeah my mom is still you know just it's still at the same place
Guest:No, she lives in Michigan now.
Marc:Michigan.
Guest:Michigan, Lansing, Michigan.
Marc:With a big community there.
Guest:A big, a huge community.
Marc:Of Muslims.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I was just there.
Marc:Yeah, it's a huge community.
Marc:Yeah, and I went out there and ate some food.
Guest:Yeah, more so East Lansing and then if you go to like right outside of Detroit.
Guest:Dearborn.
Guest:Dearborn, exactly.
Marc:That's where I went to eat.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's how I judge everything.
Marc:It's like, is there interesting food?
Marc:Me too.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Listen, if I can go to the most beautiful place in the world, if I haven't eaten good, it hasn't been a good trip.
Marc:I wanted to go to India for years only because of the bread.
Guest:Really?
Marc:And then I never went because it seemed like a shallow reason to go.
Guest:No, that's the perfect reason to go.
Guest:Have you been there?
Guest:No, but I want to go.
Marc:You do?
Guest:I want to go simply for the food.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Let's go.
Marc:Let's go.
Marc:I'm serious.
Marc:But you know what stops me?
Marc:It's like, you know, you have to get shots.
Marc:And everybody who goes to India for any amount of time, they're like, look, you'll be sick for like four days.
Marc:But then after that, it's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't know.
Marc:Do you want to be sick for four days?
Guest:I do because, listen, you know, this is going to sound really vain and shallow, but I love dropping a few pounds.
Guest:Oh, yeah, me too.
Marc:I'm going crazy right now.
Guest:Oh, are you?
Marc:Yeah, because I was out on the road.
Marc:I just let myself go for like three weeks.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm like crawling out of my skin.
Guest:I hear a lot of comedians say that about the road.
Guest:That never happens to me on the road.
Guest:If anything on the road, I come back svelte.
Marc:Because you deny yourself because there's nothing to eat, so you don't eat nothing?
Guest:Yeah, I either I either go to the ends of the earth to find what I need.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I'll be the person in freaking Wichita, Kansas, walking when nobody else is walking.
Guest:I will walk eight miles to the one.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I do.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I don't walk.
Marc:You know, I walk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I walk.
Yeah.
Guest:That's how I earn it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's how I earn it.
Marc:So you're nuts.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I never come back with, like, I let myself go.
Guest:I never come back with that story.
Marc:Well, I mean, the problem with letting yourself go is that it's fun.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you sort of make an excuse.
Marc:You know, I was just in New Mexico.
Marc:I was like, gotta eat that food.
Marc:And then Jenny's ice cream just sent me a case of ice cream.
Marc:I didn't ask for it, but I didn't fight it.
Guest:No, no, no, you accept ice cream whenever you get ice cream.
Marc:I'm nuts.
Guest:I love to hear men say it.
Marc:You do?
Guest:Because this is like something that people think only women deal with.
Marc:I'm fucking nuts.
Marc:I'm full on.
Marc:I have body dysmorphia.
Marc:I'm all of it.
Guest:Most of the people who I've met that can say they have body dysmorphia have been men and they have been men in the industry.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Well, I would argue that most dudes that you see who are ripped, that's an eating disorder.
Marc:It's just, it's a healthy one.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it's a control thing, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, one way or the other, it's some kind of control thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I guarantee you, they don't think they look big enough or ripped enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't have that problem.
Marc:I'm not looking at my washboard stomach going like, no, you gotta work a lot.
Yeah.
Marc:But you know how to body dysmorphic men?
Guest:Not a lot, but if ever I've heard, whenever I've heard that term used or that, you know, like realization, it comes from a man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you wouldn't say you have an eating disorder.
Guest:Oh, I don't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you're just aware of it.
Guest:No, I eat a lot.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I eat like contrary to what I might look like.
Guest:I eat a whole lot, but I feel like that's what the vacation is for.
Guest:Like, that's what I was saying.
Guest:You know, like on the road, like that's your job.
Guest:You do.
Guest:You're doing that so often.
Guest:You have to maintain a certain level of control because this is.
Guest:But oh, if I'm going to India.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I'm going to eat.
Guest:I'm going to be sick.
Guest:I'm going to eat some more.
Guest:I'm going to be sick.
Guest:I don't care.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't care.
Marc:It's vacation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, look, I go through periods where I'm very responsible on the road.
Marc:Then there's periods where it just gets away from me.
Marc:You go to some places, you're not going to find a Whole Foods.
Marc:No.
Marc:And then you got to figure it out.
Marc:You got to go buy some nuts somewhere, whatever.
Guest:The first time I went to China, I went to a bunch of cities before I got to Shanghai and Beijing, which has everything you need.
Guest:But when I was in Hangzhou, Chengdu, when I couldn't find a thing, I would just get a Snicker bar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would just get Snickers, M&Ms.
Guest:I would get what I knew.
Guest:And I would just drink so much water.
Guest:That was my way of combating what I was doing.
Marc:When did you go to China?
Guest:Like a couple of years ago, maybe like five years ago.
Marc:To do shows?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:For who's booking that thing?
Guest:At the time, it was an Australian comedian named Andy.
Guest:I don't know Andy's last name.
Marc:So you're doing expat shows in all those places?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you like it?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I had a few.
Marc:I was there once.
Guest:Yeah, you didn't like it?
Marc:It's like going to another planet.
Guest:It is.
Guest:I mean, China specifically, it really is.
Marc:And I just did Beijing and Hong Kong.
Marc:And the place in Hong Kong, in my recollection, the restaurant that we performed in wasn't even built yet.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And in Beijing, it was a little weird because that spy plane had just been captured.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:So it was kind of tense.
Marc:But just walking around, I thought it was pretty fascinating.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think that my favorite Asian country so far has been Japan.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:To me, it just seems like the future.
Guest:You just land there and it's like, oh, we're in the future.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It'd be nice if we had a Japanese future in America.
Marc:I don't think it's going to pan out.
Guest:Yeah, I don't think it will either.
Guest:But I remember when I did a show in Shanghai, I just kept hearing an echo and I wasn't sure why I was hearing an echo.
Guest:And then I stopped and I realized that there was a guy on a date and he spoke English, but his date didn't.
Guest:So he was translating everything I was saying.
Marc:Ah, into Chinese.
Guest:Into Chinese or Mandarin or, you know.
Guest:And I was.
Marc:And then did you hear a laugh after?
Guest:That's what I was waiting for.
Guest:I'm like, I'm waiting.
Guest:I was like, am I funny?
Guest:Ask her.
Guest:Am I funny?
Guest:And he's like, no, no, she's really enjoying it.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't even.
Guest:There's no way for me to verify.
Marc:But like when you go to those places, like I don't have any desire to like it's it's one and done kind of thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, you're not going to be like, I'm going back to China as soon as I can.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It's it's I mean, you got it for me.
Guest:You know, I'm hesitant to say it, but no, I didn't have a desire to like go back.
Guest:Not not having anything to do with the people.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Guest:But it's a really long way to travel.
Guest:And it's hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's a hard job.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's a hard enough job.
Marc:There's some times where I do the job.
Marc:It's like when I said to you the other night, because I'm going to take Esther Pavitsky to Vegas with me.
Marc:But I don't know who opens and who doesn't, but you're like, I'm not opening.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:And like some of the people that open for me are headliners.
Marc:So I don't, I don't, you know, but I had to ask, but there's some things that we do where it's like, I'm done.
Marc:I'm done with that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, I'm not, there's some, there's just some places I'm not going to perform anymore.
Guest:Well, listen, I would open for you at Madison Square Garden.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, can you, let's make that happen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you want to, you want to hear something that's also crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What?
Guest:Eight years ago, I would have never imagined that I would have ever said to Marc Maron, no, no, no, I can't open for you.
Guest:I would have never imagined that.
Marc:Eight years is a long time.
Marc:It is.
Marc:What happens in eight years?
Marc:All right, so wait, let's go back to Harlem and sneakers in the oven.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So what was the expectations on a family level out of, were your parents supportive of comedy?
Marc:I mean, what was the original idea for you among all those kids?
Guest:The original idea was to finish high school, go to college, and for me specifically, become a math teacher, which I fulfilled.
Really?
Marc:But that was not a dream.
Guest:No, that wasn't a dream.
Marc:It was practical?
Marc:Why that?
Guest:Well, for me, I think it's because I watched my mom.
Guest:My mom got married to my dad when she was in college.
Guest:My dad is seven years older than my mom, and he had just gotten out the Navy when they got married.
Guest:And my mom got married to my dad at 19.
Guest:She had my oldest sister when she was 20.
Guest:And I watched my mom as a kid go to college and never finish.
Guest:I even remember my mom was a theater major.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember her putting me in a play, putting me and my brother in a play.
Guest:I guess she didn't do the work.
Guest:She didn't cast the people she needed.
Guest:So I'm like this freaking, you know, nine year old kid doing a raisin in the sun.
Guest:at queen's college you know like and at the time when i was she was directing it yeah when i was little i knew that that wasn't right but it's like even when i think back at it i'm like dang it's like she has so many of us and she was still really just trying to fulfill her own dreams and goals and she tried so hard but it's look she was the mother of so many you know
Guest:Well, that's a choice.
Guest:It is.
Guest:But so for me, seeing that, that translated to me as go to college and finish.
Guest:Nothing comes before that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I didn't discover comedy until later.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Was your dad born into the religion?
Guest:No.
Guest:Both my parents were born Christian.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Converted apart from one another.
Guest:My dad converted under the Nation of Islam.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And my mom converted under Sunni Islam.
Marc:The mosque that you went to when you were growing up, was that affiliated with Nation of Islam?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went to the Masjid Malcolm Shabazz, which is on 116th and Lenox Avenue in Harlem.
Guest:And then before that, I went to the Masjid Takwa in Brooklyn.
Guest:Those were both temples that are affiliated with the Nation of Islam.
Marc:They're historic places?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did it seem politicized in any way or just religious?
Guest:Now, to me, it seemed just religious.
Guest:But my father was very political.
Guest:My father used to talk about the white man all the time.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like a problem.
Guest:I've met a few of you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He used to, you know, he definitely had very strong opinions.
Guest:I would say like the first 10 or 12 years of my life.
Guest:But then I noticed something changed in him.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:I don't he wasn't always a part of the Nation of Islam.
Guest:Like my father didn't make the pilgrimage to Hajj.
Guest:But I interpreted his change is the same thing that happened to like Malcolm X, which is you kind of realize like, oh, there's this faith.
Guest:There's this religion that you believe in.
Guest:But there's but then there's this black nationalist group.
Guest:And those two things are separate.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He stopped calling you guys the devil.
Marc:He did.
Marc:Well, I don't know there's any reason to ever stop.
Guest:Now, I mean, listen, now he has, my sisters have married a bunch of white men.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So he has a bunch of white grandkids, half white?
Guest:Half white, half Japanese, half, like all mixed.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I don't know why that's so exciting.
Marc:Is it just the way it is?
Guest:It is what it is.
Marc:Are any of them more religious people?
Marc:Any of your siblings, did they become more religious?
No.
Guest:No, I mean, I have one brother who goes to jail a lot and he gets really religious.
Guest:He comes home and he, well, you know, he'd be on his hadith hard for like the first couple of months out of jail.
Guest:And then, you know, but one of my siblings converted to Catholicism and that was the thing that kind of blew our minds.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's an interesting choice.
Guest:I mean, that's from one extreme to the other, right?
Marc:Yeah, and also, like, you know, not a great reputation in that religion these days.
Guest:But he married a Spanish woman.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, that's different.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You do what you got to do, I guess.
Guest:Yeah, the Puerto Ricans and the Dominicans in New York, they're Catholics.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:So now he's in.
Marc:He's in.
Marc:All right.
Guest:In Jesus Christ's name.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sorry.
Guest:I've never said that before in my life.
Marc:How was the shift for him?
Marc:You don't know?
Marc:I don't know how people do that.
Guest:I don't know, but I know that he got re-roasted him.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And he took it?
Guest:He took it.
Guest:He took it.
Guest:We re-roasted him all the time.
Guest:We're like, ah.
Marc:It's about her.
Guest:Here he comes.
Marc:The Jesus guy.
Guest:Jesus.
Guest:Oh, God.
Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:So you taught math?
Marc:You graduated college and taught math?
Guest:Yeah, I taught math and science, but I was never, but I taught- Are you good at math?
Guest:Are you good at it?
Guest:Now, I'd have to re-immerse myself, but yeah, I would say I'm pretty good with numbers, and I'm not afraid of it.
Marc:Yeah, like up until what level are you good?
Marc:All the way, like trig and everything?
Marc:Calculus.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I couldn't get through it.
Guest:It wasn't until you really.
Guest:Oh, no, I was doing I was doing algebra in fourth and fifth grade.
Marc:So you got your.
Marc:So that's why you pursued it because you were good at it.
Guest:Yeah, I was.
Guest:And, you know, this was I don't know if they're still doing this in school.
Guest:But, you know, when you take the standardized test.
Guest:Yeah, I always I was always in a 99 percentile with math always.
Marc:She's had a natural math brain.
Guest:Yeah, I was pretty high in reading, like still in the 90s, but 99 always in math.
Guest:So the moment my mom was like, oh, we could get her into a better school.
Marc:Let's do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:So you get out, you teach where?
Marc:Where are you teaching?
Guest:In the Bronx.
Marc:Like high school?
Guest:Middle school, like a middle, like an elementary school that went all the way up to middle school.
Guest:But my plan was to teach high school.
Guest:But I just never made, I just ended up moving to California.
Yeah.
Marc:So what happens?
Marc:Teaching kids in middle school, was it disheartening?
Guest:No.
Guest:So the school that I taught very briefly at, it was a charter school.
Guest:And I feel like charter schools, those are where you have involved parents.
Guest:And so I feel like those kids were great for the most part.
Guest:You know, you can see things in kids that they can't see in themselves.
Guest:Like I remember this one...
Guest:And I won't say his name, but I remember I knew that he was going to be on the part of the LGBTQ.
Guest:You know, I knew it when he was that age, although he didn't know it.
Guest:And I could tell that it was because he didn't know it.
Guest:It was causing so much frustration.
Guest:And even the way he interacted with kids is because he didn't really know what was happening to him.
Guest:And now when I see whenever, you know, like maybe a few years ago, he messaged me on Facebook and like he is not only is he out and proud and queer, he's also like gothic.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:Like he's like emo or whatever.
Guest:But I saw that.
Guest:I saw all of that when he was, you know, and yeah, at the time I'm just like a 22 year old, you know, but I, you don't say it, but.
Marc:Well, no, what are you going to say?
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How would you say it?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Of course, you know, you know, just like.
Marc:But you didn't find it discouraging teaching because the environment was good.
Guest:Because the environment was good.
Guest:My kids were good.
Guest:But I did have the epiphany.
Guest:And I think normally things happen like people have epiphanies when things are going, you know, bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I remember this day being perfect.
Marc:Different type of epiphany.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember this day in that classroom being perfect.
Guest:They were so well behaved.
Guest:They were motivated.
Guest:It was quiet.
Guest:And I remember standing there watching them be like stellar students.
Guest:And I thought, I can't do this.
Guest:And I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I knew, I'm telling you, I knew.
Marc:It wasn't a sad moment?
Guest:No, it was an aha moment.
Marc:You just saw your whole life.
Guest:Yeah, I'm like, this is actually not the plan.
Guest:This is not the path.
Guest:And then my friend was like, my friend was a spoken word artist at the time, and she was like, I'm moving to LA, I'm gonna be famous.
Guest:And I'm like.
Guest:How'd she do?
Guest:I mean, I'm more Google-able.
Guest:I think she's I think she's doing OK, but I mean, I'm definitely, you know, sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You picked a more a broader format, medium comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's pretty specific.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Guest:It is.
Marc:She could be huge in that world, and we wouldn't know.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, she's an actor now.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So you had that epiphany.
Marc:Well, yeah, I think that's interesting that it happens, that those epiphanies... The epiphanies that happen in bad spaces are usually sort of like, oh, fuck.
Marc:I'm in trouble.
Marc:I gotta change.
Guest:It's like rock bottom.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the epiphanies that happen just passively are kind of...
Guest:i would it would be i would they're more interesting yeah because you don't know where it came from you just realized that you just weren't because it wasn't even unhappy really but you know what i think i never thought about this until just this moment it's like sometimes things have to be perfect for you because that's when it was the most quiet sure i think if it was chaotic i don't know if i would have gotten the message or you could trust it even
Guest:Yeah, but it was so quiet.
Guest:And I was so peaceful.
Guest:And then it just, it was like, and I may have physically done that.
Guest:Like, my head shook.
Guest:Like, oh God, you gotta get out of here.
Marc:You had to go.
Marc:Yeah, I had to.
Guest:I was like, oh no.
Marc:But you didn't know what?
Guest:I didn't know, but then I moved to LA.
Marc:So you just moved to LA to act?
Guest:Like, well, she said to be famous and I knew I couldn't let her be famous without me.
Guest:Who wants to be the friend of the famous person?
Marc:Nobody.
Marc:So you had to go out there and be famous too?
Guest:So that, yeah, that was it.
Guest:I was like, I'm going to be famous too.
Guest:How?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I mean, I have parameters.
Guest:I have boundaries in my life.
Guest:I knew I wasn't going to do porn.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, you drew that line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I'm too much of a prude.
Guest:You know, like I knew I wasn't going to do porn.
Guest:I knew I wasn't going to do.
Marc:It's just sort of sad that was on the table as you're heading out.
Marc:Let's make a list of how we're not going to be famous.
Guest:I knew I wasn't going to do porn.
Guest:I knew I wasn't going to ride up, rob a bank.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:There's certain things that are like really on the far side of the spectrum that I knew I wasn't going to do.
Marc:Well, good for you.
Guest:But comedy wasn't really... No, comedy was not even a thought.
Guest:I didn't even think that it was something that I could do.
Guest:I never thought about it.
Marc:Did you watch comedy?
Guest:Yeah, I loved comedy.
Marc:You did?
Guest:My mom snuck me into a comedy club when I was like 11.
Marc:Do you remember it?
Guest:I do.
Marc:Who was on?
Guest:I don't remember the specific comedians, but I think at the time the host was...
Marc:Where was it?
Marc:Was it like the West End Gate?
Marc:The one up by Columbia?
Guest:No.
Guest:It was in Harlem.
Guest:It was like Uptown Comedy Club.
Marc:Oh, Uptown Comedy Club.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Greer Barnes.
Guest:Yeah, possibly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But but even in even like in college, I would go to the cellar.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I would go to the Boston Comedy Club and that would be like where I would pregame the Boston.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:When I was like a freshman in college, I would pregame.
Guest:Where'd you go to college?
Guest:I went to City College in New York.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But my friend, she went to NYU.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so that was her like stomping ground, you know.
Guest:And so we would go there before we went to like before we were illegal to be in nightclubs and everything.
Guest:We would just go to comedy clubs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We knew some of the comedians so they wouldn't ask for ID.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we would go to park, go to like nightclubs after that.
Guest:Nobody.
Guest:We would.
Guest:We were like young, pretty girls.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So they didn't ask for our IDs.
Guest:We were just partying.
Marc:Who are the comics you knew back when you were in high school?
Guest:Keith Robinson.
Marc:Keith.
Guest:I remember watching him.
Guest:Greer definitely.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Bill Burr was like one of my favorite people to see and watch when I was like 18 years old.
Marc:When he had all that hair.
Guest:i guess yeah yeah yeah i just remember the attitude and the anger yeah you know yeah and like the rant yeah yeah you know yeah and then and then i remember being at the comedy store years later sitting next to bill burr yeah and i was like you know you're one of my favorite comedians he was like what and i was like yeah he's like shut up like i'm like yeah why would he be surprised
Marc:It was more surprising that you were there that long.
Marc:I wonder what year.
Marc:Was Neil Brennan still a door guy at the Boston?
Guest:Ooh, no.
Guest:This was around 2003, 2004.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So he was out.
Marc:So the Boston was almost over.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I remember Kevin Hart.
Guest:Before, he was like Kevin Hart.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, I do too.
Marc:That wasn't that long ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know, he just took over the world somehow.
Marc:So when you get out here, what did you start doing first?
Marc:Did you guys get a place?
Marc:Tell me the horrible entrance into Los Angeles.
Guest:I got a place, a 300 square foot apartment in Silver Lake.
Marc:300 square feet, that's a closet.
Guest:Yeah, you could see everything, the kitchen from the living room, everything.
Guest:It was right next to a bus stop, so I heard every time the bus came, but it made me feel like I was back home, so it was comforting.
Marc:Need a little bit of noise.
Guest:Yeah, need a little bit of noise.
Guest:i uh so i had a bit of success when i first got here because you know i was still like you know like very youthful looking yeah and so i did like a lot of interstitials with nickelodeon like they weren't did you have an agent or how'd you do it you just went on a casting call yeah like i would just go look at like breakdowns and stuff like that and it was like very easy for like i have a good smile it was very easy for me to be like yeah yeah i'm
Guest:know i could say lines like sure you know yeah um and but but then i taught that's what that that makes it easier yeah when you when you can teach it makes it you feel like you can move anywhere in the world because everybody always needs teachers
Marc:And you sign up to be a substitute?
Marc:Is that how it works?
Guest:I signed up to be a substitute, and here's what I didn't know.
Guest:When you sign up to be a substitute, it's really hard to get placed in actual schools in L.A.
Guest:because they have their go-to substitutes.
Guest:So what you do first is they send you to the jails.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And so they call them campuses.
Guest:So you think you're going to like Stuyvesant.
Guest:But no, you are going to a jail, you know, like it may be like a juvenile detention center, but it's like a jail.
Guest:So there's time there were times where I remember two things, three things stick out to me.
Guest:Once it was I was I was on a camp like in a jail.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And but they were able to learn together.
Guest:So they were in the classrooms together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember sitting down at the desk looking at like what I was supposed to cover.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I guess there were like black gangs and like Mexican gangs.
Marc:In your classroom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And immediately one of the black boys came in and immediately started yelling at one of the Mexican boys.
Guest:You killed my cousin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You killed my cousin.
Guest:And I'm just and then it was not like a big commotion, but it was like a clear standoff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and I can't remember like I didn't black out or anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I feel like I tried to get them under like, please just have a seat.
Guest:I have to go over.
Guest:But I remember being like, you know, I grew up in New York, so I wasn't like, I wasn't like completely naive.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I was like, listen, that like I hit them with like the Michelle Pfeiffer, freaking Viola Davis.
Guest:I was like, yo, what you're saying sucks.
Guest:Like that sounds awful.
Guest:But right now there's a lesson.
Guest:Let me at least get through this lesson plan.
Guest:And I just remember like getting through that day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like them feeling like she's a reasonable person.
Guest:That's reasonable.
Guest:Yeah, they let us come into the classroom.
Guest:All she's trying to do is her job.
Guest:Let's let her what you got to teach, you know.
Guest:And I remember going through it.
Guest:And that was I remember that wasn't the last day that I did a jail.
Guest:But I was like, OK, I definitely can't go into a jail where they have like commune communal learning.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then these jails are not like, this is not like L.A.
Guest:proper.
Guest:You're freaking driving near Six Flags.
Guest:You're driving way deep in the valley for these things.
Marc:Selma or somewhere.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So then shortly after that, I go to a campus and the...
Guest:Some of them, like, so everybody is, like, really in their cells, but their cells surround, like, the common area.
Guest:And some people have the privilege to be in that common area and be learning in that common area.
Guest:And I didn't have a lot of kids.
Guest:And these are all boys.
Guest:So it's, like, maybe, like, seven or eight boys.
Guest:But right when I'm there that day, a fight breaks out.
Guest:A fight breaks out.
Guest:And so they start to, like, try to lock everybody back in.
Guest:But I'm already with, like...
Guest:like guys you know like young guys you know anywhere from like 16 to maybe like 21 or something you know there and and i'm in this this guy i can't even tell you what he looks like now he just protected me yeah protected me until the threat was like you know squashed and then i remember thinking that day okay i cannot go to jails anymore you
Guest:It got scary.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, you know, fool me once, shame me, fool me.
Guest:It's like, you got to say you're driving.
Guest:You don't even have the gas.
Guest:Why are you putting yourself in?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As much as I have been lucky enough for the these young men to have some sort of respect to like.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But it's like there were dangerous situations.
Guest:And then the last time I remember the last time I taught within this like program.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went to a place on Wilshire.
Guest:That doesn't look like a school, but it's like learning within like a building.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember it was all going fine.
Guest:The kids weren't really listening to me, but I wasn't in like any threat of danger.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then during my lunch break, I sat in like what was considered, I guess, like the teacher's lounge or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm eating grapes and like this 16 year old really good looking.
Guest:16-year-old boy comes in the room, and he's like, can I have some grapes?
Guest:And I'm like, you really want?
Guest:Now, just remember, I'm like 24 at the time.
Guest:So I'm 24, but he probably thinks that I'm closer to his age, right?
Guest:And so he's like, can I have some grapes?
Guest:And I'm like, you really want grapes?
Guest:And he was like, I mean, yeah, I want some grapes, and I want to get to know you.
Yeah.
Guest:When I tell you I laughed so hard and then I was like, I said, oh, you think I'm younger than I am?
Guest:I say, here, I'm going to give you some grapes, but I'm like, I'm a complete adult.
Guest:So sit down.
Guest:Let's have some grapes.
Guest:We can be like, let me get to know you.
Guest:But like, you know, respectfully, you know, I could be your auntie.
Guest:I could be your old I remember saying that to him like I could be your older sister like yeah yeah have that land it was like completely I'm telling you like I think a lot in a lot of situations how I respond people go that's reasonable sure and also you're grounded you know yeah you know you know you're in your body and you know what you feel and you have principles yeah so you know they're not gonna fuck with you yeah it helps in comedy I mean it's been saving me yeah so far
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, a lot of people don't and they're kind of ungrounded or they, you know, and they're nervous and they're afraid.
Marc:I imagine growing up with, you know, 12 siblings in this situation.
Marc:It's like, you know, you got to be pretty diplomatic and but also sort of strong.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm a middle kid.
Guest:But also, too, it's like I think a lot of people I probably because I did grow up with so many different personalities.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like I can pretty much see like, oh, this reminds me of my brother.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Familiar somehow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You have experience with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:With every different kind of kid in a way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I also remember having this thought when I related to a friend of mine when I was done with that day.
Guest:I was like, wow.
Guest:It's like I have no interest in like a little kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But like if I were in a different place in my life, maybe feeling like constantly rejected or insecure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It's like that was a good looking kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who was interested in.
Guest:You're saying people who like, thank God I was kind of like have always been.
Guest:My baseline is pretty secure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:Because I was like, this is how it happens.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It's how people get into trouble.
Guest:This is how people get into trouble.
Guest:Even when I became a comedian, I used to feature for Jimmy Schubert.
Guest:You know who Jimmy Schubert is?
Guest:Yeah, of course I know Jimmy Schubert.
Guest:I used to feature for Jimmy Schubert when I first started.
Marc:Him and I go way back.
Marc:There's a lot of lessons to learn there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he was the first person to take me on the road with him.
Guest:When I was on stage, we would be like, I remember we did a bunch of clubs, like all the improvs in Florida.
Guest:Oh my gosh.
Guest:And I remember being on stage and the women, they could be on dates, they could be sitting right next to their even male partners.
Guest:So these aren't even queer women, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They could be sitting next to their husbands and they would be like flirting with me, winking at me, mouthing things to me, doing things with their breasts while I'm on stage.
Guest:Like, and I would be on stage thinking like, oh my God, imagine if I were a guy who was like susceptible to the, you know what I'm saying?
Guest:Like they would come up to me after the show, feel on me, you know?
Guest:And I'm like, this is like a tough, this is like.
Marc:But that sounds, is that something
Guest:that has continued throughout your career i mean it sounds like florida oh well yeah i mean yeah that might have just been florida now did i think about it i never i never really florida is weird i never separated it i mean no women do flirt yeah you know they do flirt with me but that sounded like heavy like that no i mean it was so much so that i remember it right
Guest:Men and women come to my shows all the time and do what they do.
Guest:But that I remember feeling so uncomfortable with what a specific woman was doing to me while I was on stage.
Guest:And I was only up there for 20, 25 minutes.
Guest:And I was thinking like, wow, imagine if I was like a single guy.
Guest:Like a single guy interested in this.
Guest:This would be my playground.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, I think my experience is a lot of people get into entertainment because they do get attention from women.
Marc:That's a prime motivator early on.
Marc:I don't think it's the same for women.
Guest:No, I don't think so.
Marc:I don't know that I've talked to any women that are like, I want to do comedy so these guys will hit on me.
Guest:Yeah, when I get off stage sometimes, and I find this very, I know they think they're complimenting me, but I find it very insulting, but I just smile.
Guest:They'll be like, are you a model?
Guest:And I'll be like, no, no, no, you just saw me do an hour of comedy.
Guest:And they're like, but you know, it could be easy.
Guest:You don't have to do this.
Guest:And I'm like, did you find me funny?
Guest:And they're like, no, yeah, like we loved you, but you know, like there's an easier road for you.
Guest:And I'm like, that's so crazy.
Guest:That's crazy.
Marc:But you knew that it could have been easier.
Marc:Did you ever think that?
Guest:No, because I've never looked at my life like that.
Guest:There are certain privileges that are always cherries on top of any situation, but I don't think that that's how I was prepared for the world.
Marc:Also, it's fundamentally shallow, and it would probably be self-deceiving to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but also, even if I did think that, what I'll never do is go up to a, I'm not going to go up to a magician after I've watched an hour of his magic show and then say, you know, you could be a wrestler.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Guest:I'm never going to do it.
Marc:Yeah, but I think that's one of these general kind of weird, you know, comedy is the realm of runty people.
Marc:So I think that it was probably meant as a genuine compliment.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:That's sort of like, you don't look like other comics.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I think people, I'm sure that's what people are thinking, but that's not what you're thinking, what you're thinking, what comes out of your mouth.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:can be drastically different of course and how we take things yeah you know i i get it you know what i mean it's like i when i for years when i was doing the podcast people would be like they would come to the the comedy shows and they just start talking to me about my life and about the podcast i'm like did you yeah yeah it's fine but did you get that thing fixed in your house i'm like but so when do you start doing comedy how does that happen
Guest:I started doing comedy in the end of 2010.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and I... So you're substitute teaching, you're doing interstitials for Nickelodeon?
Marc:Yeah, for like... Picking up work here and there?
Guest:Yeah, for like my first two years out here.
Guest:And Ian Edwards, the comedian, he says, hey, you know, BET is casting for this show, they need funny girls.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And I'm like, well, I'm not right.
Guest:How'd you know Ian?
Guest:I met him one day at the Cellar.
Guest:Oh, back in the day?
Guest:No.
Guest:He was visiting New York.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:And he was doing a spot at the Cellar, and he knew all the other comedians that I had gotten familiar with.
Marc:I remember Ian when he had dreads.
Guest:I didn't know him.
Guest:I never.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:After I met him and got to know him, he showed me those pictures.
Guest:The headshots.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, like he was heavier.
Guest:He had.
Guest:I'm like, oh, this is a completely different person.
Guest:That's how I remember when he started.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you knew him.
Guest:You met him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so like when I was in college, my friend and I, we used to come here like on spring break.
Guest:And I remember once she, I don't know how, but for one spring break we came here.
Guest:It was when Soul Plane had premiered.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And we went to we were like we went to the premiere.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like everything.
Guest:And that was for me, like L.A.
Guest:was so that was like the dream, because I would come here during spring break.
Guest:It's like you come here for a long weekend.
Guest:You eat brunch.
Guest:You go to the beach and you go to freaking A-list parties, you know, because you're just like a young, cute girl.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then when you move here, it's a rude awakening.
Guest:Well, for me it was.
Guest:It was like, oh my God, I don't know anybody.
Guest:I'm so lonely.
Guest:It can be pretty lonely here.
Guest:It's so freaking lonely.
Guest:I lived in Silver Lake.
Guest:I lived like at the Silver Lake.
Marc:With your friend though?
Marc:Were you living with your friend?
Marc:No, by myself.
Guest:But she lived like maybe like three blocks, like walking distance away from me.
Guest:I would get up having nothing to do.
Guest:I would get up and walk from Silver Lake to Beverly Hills to Santa Monica.
Marc:Oh no.
Marc:It's like that New York thing.
Marc:It's like, I'm going to walk.
Guest:I'm going to walk.
Guest:I will go into open houses on the way.
Marc:This is sad.
Guest:How much is this going for?
Marc:It can be pretty isolating here and it can really break you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So Ian tells you, he says.
Guest:So Ian tells me, Ian says that they're casting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They need funny women.
Guest:That's what he says.
Guest:They need not funny.
Guest:They need funny black girls.
Guest:That's what he said.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, well, I don't know why you called me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, cause you're funny.
Guest:I'm like, no, I'm not.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said, you are funny.
Guest:I said, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I'm arguing with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know what you're talking about.
Guest:Or maybe you don't know.
Guest:Like, I know we don't know each other well, but what I'm not is funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's like, just go.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I end up going.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They end up casting me for this prank show.
Guest:I end up pranking a bunch of people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've made friends with the other cast people.
Guest:Some are like my close friends to this day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And after that, I started taking classes at Groundlings.
Guest:I started doing, like, I've joined a bunch of, like, sketch groups, started sketch groups, performed.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, we'll perform, like, at the improv and the comedy store, like, with a sketch group, you know?
Guest:And then...
Marc:So you found a community.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then one day out of nowhere.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I went to a comedy show.
Guest:My friend said, I'm coming to this comedy show.
Guest:And I was like, she was like, yeah, it's all women.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my friend is performing and I'm like, OK, I'll go.
Guest:And I went and I didn't really enjoy it.
Marc:Watching it.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't really find those.
Marc:Was it like a mic?
Marc:No, it was like a real show.
Marc:It was a real show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just didn't find them very funny.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I think something clicked in me then because it wasn't like I didn't just have like a basic opinion.
Guest:Like they're just not funny to me.
Guest:I was picking it apart.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I was picking a part like, I wonder why she would say this, but this is the joke.
Guest:Like, I mean, that out of nowhere was happening in my mind.
Guest:This is the second epiphany.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Another calm epiphany.
Guest:And then, I didn't know this, I didn't know this, but...
Guest:Later this casting director that I now know I went to I went to Vegas with a friend Yeah, and we went to a big like comedy I think they did like deaf comedy jam like when deaf comedy came back They did like a Vegas show of it.
Guest:Yeah, and I remember she I remember coming back and reenacting everybody sets and
Guest:And when I saw this casting director later, like after I started working as a comedian, she's like, you know, I knew you were going to be a comedian before you knew.
Guest:And I was like, no, how did you know?
Guest:And she was like, because that like we were at my boyfriend's apartment like she was with my boyfriend's roommate.
Guest:So that's the reason why we were in the same vicinity.
Guest:That's what brought us together that day.
Guest:She was like, that day when you were at your boyfriend's house, she was like, and you just launched into imitating all the comedians and then rewriting the things that you felt like didn't work.
Guest:She said, I knew in that moment what you were going to do, although I knew you didn't know it yet.
Guest:And I was like...
Guest:Very interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I remember one day I was working like a nine to five.
Guest:I was working.
Guest:A friend of mine at the time was like a manager, a manager, and he had to fire his assistant.
Guest:He's like, can you come and, you know, be my show business manager?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:talent manager and he's like could you be my assistant um and i'm like yeah i need you know i could use the money i always tell this story and i i feel so bad now telling it but it's the truth the only reason why i said yes is because at the time i was windows i was like virtual like virtually window shopping on net-a-porter and i saw these fifteen hundred dollars uh chloe boots that i just had to have yeah yeah
Guest:I just had to have them.
Guest:And I'm like, how can I?
Guest:And so right as I'm trying to debate, like, do I pay my rent or do I get these boots?
Guest:He calls and is like, can you come work?
Marc:Can you buy me these boots?
Guest:I was like, how much will I how much will I make by the end of the week?
Guest:And it was like a close enough amount to the boots.
Guest:And I was like, yeah.
Guest:And I called one of my sisters and I'm like, I just got a job, but I need you to send me money now for these boots.
Yeah.
Guest:I'll give it back to you in a week.
Guest:I just got a job.
Guest:I promise you did.
Guest:And my sister purchased the boots for me.
Guest:I sent her my first check.
Guest:I sent it all to my sister.
Guest:And I had those boots for years.
Guest:I recently sold them on a vintage website.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Somebody else wanted the boots after.
Guest:What kind of boots?
Guest:They were Chloe boots.
Guest:They were thigh-high boots.
Guest:Here's the reason why they were important to me, Mark.
Guest:This is a really big part of my story that I never talk about.
Guest:When I was 17 years old, I got hit by a truck.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why would you lie about that?
Guest:Oh, super bad.
Guest:Can I get up?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That's a massive scar.
Marc:So the truck ran over your legs?
Marc:Wow.
Guest:So the truck kind of like pinned me in between a car and the truck.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:When you're crossing the street?
Guest:I was pushing the back of the car because the car turned up, like shut down.
Guest:But I don't know how it shut down because I'm at the time.
Marc:You were driving it?
Guest:No, I'm 17.
Guest:I was a New York City kid.
Guest:Like I had no concept of cars.
Guest:Yeah, I was a passenger and in a car just shut off.
Guest:So I don't know if it was gas.
Guest:I don't know if it was oil.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I didn't know how cars worked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would be better starting up a train before I could tell you how a car works.
Guest:But the driver was like, the gas station was so close, and the driver was like, just get out and push.
Guest:And me and the other girl in the car, it was three of us in the car, so one stayed in, and then two of us got out and pushed the back of the car.
Guest:And as I remember getting out and pushing, and I remember joking with the girl, I had just had new sneakers, and I was like, this better not mess up my...
Guest:Sneaker.
Guest:And then I woke up in an ambulance for like a few seconds.
Guest:And I remember the ambulance driver, I remember one of them cutting off my clothes and asking me who was the president.
Guest:It's like, you think I know who the president is?
Guest:I can't vote yet.
Guest:I don't know who the president is.
Guest:I mean, I probably knew, but whatever.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And yeah, drunk driver.
Guest:So the boots were so important because they were fashionable, but also they served a very practical purpose.
Guest:They cover everything up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, oh my God, I'm going to be freaking so fly.
Guest:But also they're going to mask this thing that happened to me.
Guest:So I had to get these boots.
Marc:How long did it take to recover from that?
Guest:I don't know if I've ever fully recovered.
Guest:It's a part of me now.
Marc:No, but I mean just physical therapy and everything.
Marc:Oh, maybe like a year and a half.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But even now, I'm really active, but still, this causes complications that maybe someone who is as active and fit as me wouldn't have that I have to be mindful of and aware of.
Marc:I mean, how, what got broken?
Guest:Both, tip fibs in both legs.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I have like hip damage.
Guest:Uh, yeah.
Guest:I have a bar, like a metal rod in my left leg.
Guest:Um, a lot of like, so you saw the bottom, but like the top is like a lot of skin graphing.
Guest:Cause you just like, you have to take the skin from somewhere.
Guest:So yeah, it's like, I have like limited, like almost no dorsiflexure in my left ankle, but that's what's so cool.
Guest:That's, that's,
Guest:That's why when I'm on stage and I'm like, I mean, you hear my comedy.
Guest:It's very personal, you know.
Guest:And so sometimes when people like reduce me to like, you're just so beautiful.
Guest:I'm like, you don't even know me.
Guest:You don't even know that half of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Why don't don't label me because it erases me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I tried to tell jokes about the accident, though, very early in my career.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember thinking it was very, not thinking it was funny, but thinking like, this is how you overcome things.
Guest:How do I make this?
Guest:And eventually I will.
Guest:You haven't yet though?
Guest:No, I did it one, one.
Guest:They don't believe me.
Yeah.
Guest:I did it one time on a show on Joel Kim Booster's show and they didn't believe me.
Guest:And then I put just like I did to you.
Guest:Then I pulled my pants up and I showed them.
Guest:And then they were like, oh, and then everything I said after that, they were able to laugh.
Guest:But if I don't show them, it's like they almost they I think they think like I'm trying to be like, oh, she's just a hot girl trying to do you get what I'm saying?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To undercut her hotness.
Guest:Yeah, it's like when you see a skinny girl that's like, I feel fat today.
Guest:It's like, bitch, shut up.
Marc:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:I think that's how they look at me.
Marc:But then when I show them- It's odd that comedy is difficult for pretty women.
Marc:My second wife-
Marc:was a comic and she was a model before that and you know it there was just a lot of focus on you know trying to be humble yeah around being beautiful because it's not like a beautiful people's game you know what i mean no it's not and it's it's actually an obstacle yeah right yeah it's an obstacle but it's also an obstacle no one wants to hear about
Marc:Yeah, well, that's it.
Marc:You can't complain.
Guest:Yeah, you can't.
Marc:But you almost have to be more funny.
Marc:You have to get them to forget.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:You can't, you know, like, either that or hyper-sexualize for a character, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that must have been just... So you were homebound for a year?
Marc:I was in a hospital for a year.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That's, like, life-defining.
Marc:Did you think you were going to die?
Marc:Or wasn't it like that?
Guest:I did not think that I was going to die.
Marc:Do you think you were ever going to be able to walk correctly?
Guest:I still don't walk correctly, but you don't know that.
Guest:I know that.
Marc:No, I'm going to watch.
Guest:Yeah, watch.
Guest:I don't care.
Marc:But you didn't think you were going to die.
Guest:I didn't think I was going to die because I have no recollection of the trauma.
Guest:I know all the trauma of the aftermath trauma.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But not the.
Marc:Hitting of the.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You just went out immediately.
Guest:But here's when I knew I could take a joke.
Yeah.
Guest:So I'm laying in a hospital.
Guest:I'm in ICU.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like my face, like my head is like laying to the left side, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And at this point, I've been like basically in a medically induced coma, right?
Guest:To bring down, you know, just the pain, like I'm going through surgeries and stuff.
Marc:How long were you in a medically induced coma?
Guest:Like probably about two weeks.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And so and it's traumatic for my family.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:My dad has to stop.
Guest:He has to come.
Guest:And now he's, you know, like by my side because this didn't happen in New York.
Guest:I was I was visiting in Atlanta.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'm away from home.
Guest:So my mom gets a call like you're they tell my mom that I'm dead.
Guest:I'm not dead.
Guest:You know, like it's traumatic.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:But I am not conscious through any of this.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I wake up to people by my side, you know.
Guest:But I'm I'm in a bed and I'm in a hospital bed and my head is to like is like leaning to the left.
Guest:So you can only see what you can only see the right side of my face.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But the right side of my face was really traumatic.
Guest:I'm surprised that without any plastic surgery to my face, did it heal like that?
Guest:I looked the way I have.
Guest:I have had no plastic surgery, nothing to my face.
Marc:What happened?
Marc:Did you get dragged on the road?
Marc:How did it get so bad?
Marc:You were pinned between two cars, but then did you, what happened?
Marc:How'd you?
Guest:I think, so from how it was told to me, I was pinned between two cars and the truck backed up and then drove off.
Guest:And a woman who saw it in her car,
Guest:followed the truck and called the cops on her cell phone and the cops cut him off at an intersection.
Guest:So I think for me, I think it's just like the glass, the breaking of the glass, the falling, you know, just like the hitting the concrete, you know, being like I was knocked unconscious.
Marc:What glass broke?
Guest:I don't know, but I definitely had like a lot of cuts and gashes.
Guest:Like I have them all over.
Guest:If you look at my, I have them all over.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I have them all over.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like little things that people wouldn't notice.
Guest:I have them all over, like in my scalp.
Guest:Like I have them all over.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But.
Guest:So you're leaning to the left.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so my face, I'm unrecognizable.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's not just swollen, but it's cut up.
Guest:It's blood.
Guest:It's everything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So my high school basketball coach, he comes see that.
Guest:I guess he came to like because we me and the other girl, we were like his athlete, like we were his freaking.
Guest:kids.
Guest:So you were a basketball star.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he comes down and this is what wakes me up.
Guest:This is the first thing that brings me to consciousness.
Guest:I hear him saying my name and I'm like what?
Guest:And I'm like oh that's like people you know and he sees the right side of my face which is like unrecognizable and I hear him say that's not I hear him like crying like that's not Zaynab.
Guest:That's not Zaynab.
Guest:That can't be
Guest:She was she was she was not only like an athlete, but she was also the same in comedy.
Guest:Like she's our she didn't have to play basketball.
Guest:She could have been a mom.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:It was that same.
Guest:It like, no, that can't be her.
Guest:She doesn't look like that.
Guest:And then because I hear him saying that I turn over to look in his direction.
Guest:And then the left side of my face is complete is regular.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so he says, oh, shit, it's the Phantom of the Opera.
Guest:And I just bust out laughing.
Guest:And I didn't, of course, like at that moment, you know, I'm 17 years old.
Guest:I don't think like, oh, I could take a joke.
Guest:But when I think back on, I'm like, I could take a joke.
Guest:I laughed in that moment.
Marc:So that was, well, did you have dreams of being a professional athlete and all that?
Marc:Or at least playing in college and all that stuff?
Guest:Yeah, I think that the WNBA was like a few years in, you know, and so it felt more possible than anything.
Marc:And you were a good player?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So this whole thing shattered your life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And we just brought it up an hour into a conversation.
Guest:But you know what, Mark?
Guest:I don't see it as shatter.
Guest:I see it as a pivot.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:But I mean, it's a big transition.
Marc:You overcame.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:And in retrospect, it's a pivot.
Marc:But when you're 17, I don't know that you were laying in that bed going like, this is just a pivot.
Guest:no it definitely felt like like like like life ending absolutely yeah but my boyfriend still loved me and that meant a lot same boyfriend same oh we're not together now but yeah he no no no we're not together now i was gonna say wow no but he came to one of my comedies he years ago when i was a new jfl new face he came to my montreal yeah he came to my showcase you live up there
Guest:No, the audition was in New York.
Guest:He came to my showcase audition and I did really, I had a shaved head and I remember he was looking at me like he couldn't believe that I was the girl that he had been with.
Guest:Like we were boyfriend and girlfriend from like 15 to 19, you know, like he couldn't, but he was looking at me like I was an alien.
Guest:Like, wow, look, look at, look at you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like,
Marc:Was he happy for you?
Marc:He was.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But still, like, you could tell, like, speechless.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Speechless.
Guest:And, like, you're funny.
Guest:Like, speechless.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:And then when I start working for this manager, yeah, I... Got your boots.
Guest:I got my boots, but I was there for like, you know, working for like a week for him turned into six months.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And what I knew was I knew that I didn't move to L.A.
Guest:to like sit in somebody's office.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Answer phone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so right at that same time, that's when I saw the that's when I saw that comedy show.
Guest:And I was like rewriting people's material.
Guest:And so I remember Googling.
Guest:I lived in North Hollywood at the time.
Guest:I remember Googling open mics near me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was this hookah lounge.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember it said first comfort, you know, like five minutes.
Guest:You got to buy something like you got to buy like a coffee or something.
Guest:You got to buy five dollars worth of something, a five dollar minimum.
Guest:And you get five minutes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you sign up first 20 people to sign up, get to go up.
Guest:And I remember leaving work that I remember saying, you know, I'm putting in my two weeks notice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Leaving work that day, going to the open mic.
Guest:And I needed it to be close to my house because I didn't think it was going to be good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, I need to just do this, feel how it feels.
Guest:And then when it's bad, I'll just go home.
Guest:Nobody will ever know this happened.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I told one friend.
Marc:It's anonymous.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I told one friend.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I wrote down what I thought was material.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And it all started.
Guest:I remember the first thing was with my family.
Guest:I always started with my family.
Guest:And they laughed.
Guest:I mean, to the point where people who were outside smoking hookah, they came in.
Guest:And this is just in, I didn't even do the whole five minutes.
Guest:This was like, I'm like three and a half, four minutes in.
Guest:And they're enjoying, you know, open mics are freaking tough.
Marc:They're weird.
Marc:They're not there for that.
Guest:People are not there for that.
Guest:Comedians are like, I want to get up there, try my shit out.
Marc:There's 20 comics and three people who didn't know there was a comedy show.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:And they're like, what the fuck?
Guest:And so it's going well.
Guest:So I stop.
Guest:I'm like, oh my God, you guys are laughing.
Guest:And they're like, yeah, keep going.
Guest:And I was like, no, I'm going to stop while I'm ahead.
Guest:And I get off stage.
Guest:And my friend, right when I walk out the door, my friend walks, the one friend who I told, she's just arriving.
Guest:And she's like, how was it?
Guest:I was like, I think I'm going to do comedy.
Guest:And she was like, girl, I told you you were funny.
Guest:I'm like, what?
Guest:She was like, Zaynab, you're funny.
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:I said, I think I can be good at this.
Guest:And then, so here's like another sidebar.
Guest:And me becoming friends with Ian, I remember...
Guest:That day, I remembered something that Ian told me one day when I was talking to him, which was one day I called Ian and he's like, I'm like, hey, what you doing?
Guest:And he's like, oh, I just finished, you know, I just finished doing some spots.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm still like a young girl hungry.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'm just I'm calling Ian.
Guest:Like, can we go get some food?
Guest:That was my goal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so he.
Guest:So he was like, I'm just finished some spots.
Guest:And I was like, OK, I was going to see if you wanted to go get something to eat.
Guest:And he was like, he's like, no, I'll go get food with you.
Guest:He was like, but just let me call you back because I'm like doing like I'm recalling my set.
Guest:And I was like, what do you mean?
Guest:And he was like, oh, you know, when I'm done, like I either like listen to what I recorded or if I didn't record it, I have to like go over it in my head while it's fresh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In that moment, I never he said that to me.
Guest:I'm like, go back when you're ready to eat.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But now two and a half years later or whatever, when I did that open mic, I don't know why that clicked to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I recorded the set that I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so then the next day I listened to that set.
Guest:I thought about I rewrote it and I went to another open mic.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then I never stopped doing that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was it.
Yeah.
Guest:I didn't start getting into... I did Last Comic Standing.
Marc:You weren't getting into clubs before Last Comic Standing?
Marc:You were doing mics?
Guest:I was doing mics.
Guest:And I remember... That's a rare thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember...
Marc:That you actually like, you know, that's the way it should be.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like a real talent show.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like not some established has been or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember.
Guest:So when I when I decided, oh, shoot, this is what I'm I'm good.
Guest:I'm going to I'm going to I do believe, Mark, that I can be good at a lot of things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Seems like I am good at a lot of things.
Guest:But.
Guest:And I'm not fearful of stuff.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:I think the first thing is like you got to get past the fear, right?
Guest:The one thing I know I'll never be good at is singing.
Guest:Like that's just not something that I can do, right?
Guest:Tone deaf everything, right?
Guest:So, but aside from that, I'm like, yeah.
Guest:Now I want to hear you try.
Guest:But do I believe I could write a song?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, there's songwriters listening to this like.
Guest:Oh boy.
Yeah, please.
Guest:But so what I did was the moment I didn't feel like I had like a I didn't really know much about as much as I came to comedy shows out here.
Guest:I didn't really know much about the comedy scene.
Guest:I had a stronger connection with the comedy scene in New York.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Because you knew those guys.
Guest:Yeah, so what I did was I would, you know, I'm from New York.
Guest:My family is in New York.
Guest:So I would fly back to New York.
Guest:And I remember telling Keith Robinson, I remember saying, I started doing comedy, but I need to get spots.
Guest:And he was like...
Guest:Okay, come to New York.
Guest:And when I went to New York, I did the same thing.
Guest:I just did open mics.
Guest:I didn't show up at comedy clubs trying to get on.
Guest:I just looked for every single open mic, you know?
Marc:So you moved back?
Guest:No.
Guest:I would just book and like, you know, it's like, oh, I'm going to stay here for a month.
Guest:And I'm just going to do as many open mics as I can in New York.
Guest:And then Keith says, meet me at Stand Up New York.
Guest:You're going to do the check spot.
Guest:I don't even know what that means.
Okay.
Guest:was he hosting no okay but he knew so he he had enough leverage to say put her on yeah yeah when they're paying yeah yeah i went up and did the check spot and i got off stage and of course i was nervous and everything but i got off stage and keith says you got something
Guest:He didn't even want to say it.
Guest:I mean, you know, he didn't want to give it to me.
Guest:He said, you got something, right?
Guest:He was checking.
Guest:And he said, keep working, keep working.
Guest:How I got into clubs has always been very like, you know, so...
Guest:Keith is doing a show in L.A.
Guest:with Kevin Hart.
Guest:They were doing a showcase at the Improv.
Guest:And Keith says, come down.
Guest:I want you to do this set on Kevin's show.
Guest:You're going to be one of the opening comedians.
Guest:I go down.
Guest:I got my five minutes ready.
Guest:Dave Becky is in the audience.
Guest:I got my five minutes ready.
Guest:And nothing happens from that.
Guest:I do a good job.
Guest:People think that I'm funny.
Guest:Is Dave your guy?
Guest:No, he's not.
Guest:But the host was working with Wanda Sykes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She had a show on.
Guest:She had a show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said, you got to Wanda has to see you.
Guest:That's what he said to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, you know, people tell you everything.
Guest:I don't think anything of it.
Guest:I never hear from Wanda.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He emails me that guy.
Guest:I gave him my email.
Guest:He emails me and he said, I just wanted you to know.
Guest:I just wanted you to see.
Guest:I just wanted you to know that I kept my word.
Guest:I thought that you were great.
Guest:I think that you have you'll have an awesome career in this.
Guest:And I just wanted to send you the email that I sent to Wanda.
Guest:OK.
Guest:And so he sends me this whole thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Shortly.
Guest:And he said, but the show, you know, I didn't realize that the show that the show was ending.
Guest:So I was too late to get you in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Shortly after that, Wanda Sykes is producing Last Comic Standing.
Guest:So they call me in for an audition.
Guest:I'm not past at any clubs.
Guest:I'm open-miking.
Guest:But I mean, diligently.
Marc:You got some time.
Guest:15, 20 minutes.
Guest:I had about 12.
Guest:I had probably, like, unworked 30 minutes.
Guest:But, like, confident, I know this will do 12 to 14 minutes.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Because it's like, I'm actually doing five-minute sets, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I auditioned for Last Comic Standing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember, you know, it's just, like, four executives in a room.
Marc:They got their bunch of files.
Marc:Was Wanda there, too?
Yeah.
Guest:I saw as soon as I got on stage, she snuck in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I saw her sneak in and I turned it.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:When I saw her sneak in, I was like, oh, she's coming to check me out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Let's go.
Guest:Let's go.
Guest:And I freaking went.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I had another, I had a call back and I remember when I got Last Comic Standing, I remember that's how Jimmy started taking me on the road.
Guest:That was my, because we were on the same season of Last Comic Standing.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And on our taping,
Guest:They don't air it like this, but that first night that we got passed to the next round, to the semifinals, I went on the 24th.
Guest:I was the 24th comedian to go on that night after being there for seven hours.
Guest:The audience had been there for about four or five hours.
Guest:I was the 24th comedian and Jimmy was the 25th, but we killed it.
Guest:And so after that, after Last Comic Standing, you know, he was like, you know, I need a feature.
Guest:Because he was able to tour off of it.
Guest:Like, you know, and he's like, I need a feature.
Guest:You want a feature?
Guest:And I'm like, sure.
Guest:And I was so recognizable from Last Comic Standing because I was this tall, thin, had a shaved head.
Guest:Like people used to think that I won that season just because aesthetically I was who they remember.
Marc:What did you come in?
Guest:I was the semifinals.
Guest:I was on for like two.
Guest:I told you I had 12 minutes.
Guest:I did my first five minutes.
Guest:Then I did my second five minutes and then I was gone.
Marc:But it got you recognition.
Guest:It got me recognition.
Marc:So you went out with Jimmy and that's where you learned how to put the set together.
Guest:That's where I learned how to put the set together.
Guest:And then I think the thing that opened a lot.
Guest:So so then right after that, right after that, I I was auditioning for JFL.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I got Jeff.
Guest:I got new faces.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When it meant something.
Marc:What year was that?
Guest:2014.
Marc:So you could still be kind of unknown.
Marc:So it meant something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also Keith, again, he was taping his special.
Guest:This was the first club I got passed at as a regular, which is probably one of the most sought after clubs, right?
Marc:With The Cellar?
Guest:The Cellar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was opening for him for his Comedy Central taping, and the next two shows, and I did, you know, well, I remember Kevin saying, this is yes, but, you know, just joking, like roasting him.
Guest:And the next day, we were, like, sitting, like, we were maybe having lunch or something, and he was like, I'm going to, you know, see, I'm going to get you an audition for The Cellar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said, so do your best.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he texts Esty like, can she get on an audition?
Guest:She said, I saw her last night.
Guest:She's passed.
Marc:That was easy.
Marc:Thank God.
Marc:And so you started working there?
Guest:And I started working at Cellar.
Guest:So I went back to New York so much.
Guest:As much as I lived in L.A., I went back to New York.
Guest:Because once you get past at the Cellar, then it's like you could work at every other club in New York.
Guest:And so that's where I got my spot.
Guest:I wasn't really a part of the L.A.
Guest:stand-up.
Marc:Because I don't remember seeing you.
Guest:Yeah, I wasn't really a part of it.
Marc:It's just after COVID.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Until I, whatchamacallit, I would just go back to New York.
Guest:And that's where I would, even if I had something here, like something be like, oh, you're about to tape something or you have a showcase.
Guest:I would book a trip to New York.
Marc:So that was your place.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that's where everyone knew you.
Guest:Yeah, and that's why people are like, when did you move out here?
Guest:And I'm like, I lived here the whole time.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:So now, what is this show you're on?
Marc:When you're leaving, well, you're going to Montreal, but don't you have to start shooting again?
Guest:Yeah, I'm on Upload.
Guest:Upload is- Third season?
Guest:Yeah, we're shooting the third season.
Guest:We go back to Vancouver to shoot in a month.
Marc:You like Vancouver?
Guest:I love Vancouver.
Marc:Me too.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:I want to live there.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Kinda.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Like that part of Canada or Canada generally or no specifically?
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:I mean, it'd be Toronto or Vancouver, but I like the way Vancouver looks and feels, but I know it's rainy there a lot.
Guest:But I mean, Toronto has like brutal winters.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I was there right before the pandemic.
Guest:It was one of my last, I went and did like a live podcast or something, a live podcast show, and it was brutal.
Guest:I love that city, good food.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:It's like Canada's New York, you know?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Too cold.
Marc:It's rough, huh?
Guest:It's like you in Chicago in the winter.
Marc:No kidding, yeah.
Marc:So you're going to go up to Montreal and do two weeks up there?
Guest:Two and a half, yeah.
Marc:Two and a half, just headlining?
Yeah.
Guest:I'm always, I'm so particular about taping material.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:You're afraid to burn it?
Guest:I'm not afraid to burn it.
Marc:You just want to burn it in the right place.
Guest:Yeah, I like to burn it in the right place.
Guest:I like for things to be, you know.
Guest:I'm sitting here trying to figure out something.
Guest:What can I repurpose?
Marc:What are these 17 minutes don't matter?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It's not so much don't matter, but like I know that like I'm going to tape my HBO special in December.
Marc:So I know there's shit in there.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:that that it's not gonna be december is too it's too long yeah yeah so i can do it now yeah yeah i just i also recognize how bad i didn't know this at first but now i know how valuable our material is it's it's literal ip coming out of our mouth and i don't off i don't always think that people show how valuable and i think that
Guest:I used to be at a place where you just want to do everything and you want to do so much.
Guest:And it's so like a gala show.
Guest:That sounds good.
Guest:That's a nice thing.
Guest:That's always exciting at JFL.
Guest:Like I remember when I was the new face and the people who was doing galas, I'm like, I can't wait to be invited to do a gala.
Guest:But now I do not look at it like that.
Guest:I look at it.
Guest:I look at it.
Guest:You, I look at it truly like, um,
Guest:What do I gain from this?
Guest:And what am I giving up for this?
Guest:And is is it equal?
Guest:And if it's not, it doesn't appeal to me in the same.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:You know, but there's also this weird thing we have in our heads.
Marc:I'll churn through hours and hours.
Marc:I don't know how it happens, but it happens.
Marc:I'm running through hour and a half, two hours now of stuff.
Marc:That's pretty strong.
Marc:Some of it's better than others.
Marc:And there's this idea we have in our head that if we put it on TV in any way, that is dead.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I don't know if that's all true because for me, there were decades where people didn't know who the fuck I was.
Marc:I've got four or five CDs worth of shit and maybe two specials where people didn't really know who I was.
Marc:So I'm still a discoverable thing.
Marc:I'm not an arena guy.
Marc:I'm a 800 to 1,200 seat guy, maybe 2,000 in some cities.
Marc:But my point is it's sort of sad
Marc:We have this idea that once you put it out there, it's done.
Marc:That you can't tour on it.
Guest:So you're absolutely right.
Guest:But that's not where I'm coming from.
Guest:So I'm working on a special as well.
Guest:And so that means when I get up on stage, I try to be very intentional.
Guest:So a lot of the work that I'm doing is towards the material that I plan on doing on the special.
Marc:When are you going to shoot it?
Guest:To be determined.
Marc:Oh, is that a self-produced thing?
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:No.
Marc:You just don't know yet?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But what I don't want to do, see, I could go up on a show and work stuff out, but I do not like to work stuff out where people are taping it.
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:I have a joke like that that I did at a gala show at JFL.
Guest:And I watch that.
Guest:I watch it in its infancy.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, yeah, this is much better now.
Guest:But what's cemented, what they're playing, what they're posting, what they keep using, because contractually they can, is this half done version of it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:I don't like it.
Marc:No one's watching it.
Marc:No one's watching it.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:But I get it.
Marc:I used to do that on Conan all the time because they used to give me that show when people would not show up.
Marc:So on day of, day before, do you got anything?
Marc:I always do panel because I could do half-baked jokes.
Marc:There's like hours of me doing Conan O'Brien sets and jokes that got much better and I used other places because no one was watching and they just became better jokes.
Marc:But I get it.
Marc:But we have our own sort of we're hard on ourselves like that because there's part of you probably could know when that's out there.
Marc:You're like, I can't do that joke in any form, you know, on TV again anyways.
Marc:Or no.
Guest:Sometimes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But if it's like, I don't know, like the stuff that's like special to me, it's like that's the stuff that I'm trying to figure out and it's causing me frustration.
Guest:Some nights it's really fun, but some nights it's like unlocking like what this joke is really about or what I'm trying to say and then what's funny about, you know what I'm saying, like in a funny way.
Guest:That's really, that is what's occupying my mind itself.
Guest:and my spirit right now.
Guest:And so I don't, maybe I need to just like let go and not take it too, but I'm just a really intentional person.
Marc:No, you're working on an hour and you want it to happen.
Guest:I don't need the nuisance of like trying to figure out.
Guest:Five minutes.
Guest:You know, a seven minute set for a gala.
Marc:Believe me, I'm right there.
Marc:I got this fucking gig two years ago.
Marc:Two years ago.
Marc:And now I'm working on an hour and I'm like, oh my God.
Marc:How can I fucking do 10 minutes and then a seven minutes?
Guest:Yeah, but I'm most looking forward to the two nights where I get to just run my hour.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Marc:That's what I'm looking forward to.
Marc:I'm going to do that too.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Because you're working it out.
Guest:And if anybody records, I'm going to freaking...
Marc:I must have nice fans.
Marc:No one ever fucking records me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:So wait, even when you, how is that?
Guest:Even being on TV, like people don't show up and just record you?
Marc:No, it's weird.
Marc:I never see anything.
Marc:I never like put it on YouTube or something.
Guest:No, they that's the that's the strange thing about when people record.
Guest:What?
Guest:I'm like, I ask.
Guest:I ask people sometimes when I watch them record other comedians.
Guest:I'm like, you just I just watch you record for.
Guest:Are you going to rewatch this or do you send it to your friends?
Guest:Do you post?
Guest:They're like, oh, no, I'm never I'll never post this.
Guest:And I'm like, so what do you do with it?
Guest:Like, yeah.
Guest:We don't have that much space on our phones.
Guest:And they're like, I don't know.
Guest:It's just like, I think it's funny.
Guest:I like it.
Guest:So I just recorded.
Marc:Yeah, so they were there.
Guest:Yeah, but they don't show anybody.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what it is.
Marc:But I don't see it.
Marc:Most of my audience are grownups.
Guest:I was going to say, I didn't want to be, I was going to say, do you have an older audience?
Marc:Yeah, I do now, thank God.
Guest:They're not pulling out camera phones, but the young kids, the young kids, they watch you through the camera lens.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:It's weird, but I guess that's the way it is.
Guest:And also, you know, people record because in the hopes that something happens.
Marc:And then they can.
Guest:And they get it, yeah.
Guest:They've documented the moment.
Guest:Like, you don't know if something is going to happen.
Marc:Oh, I see what you're saying.
Marc:Like, when someone tackles you.
Marc:So when someone tackles you.
Marc:Or you do some crowd work.
Guest:Or you say something wrong.
Marc:I always record my sets.
Marc:I should record them on video.
Marc:But I'm not on TikTok and shit.
Marc:So I drew the line, I guess, at Instagram.
Marc:Because I know that a lot of people are doing crowd work intentionally for Instagram pieces.
Marc:To draw people to the shows.
Marc:And I thought about it.
Marc:Do I want those people at my shows?
Guest:Well, if you want to do stadiums.
Marc:I don't.
Marc:I'm good.
Marc:I'm good with theaters.
Marc:I'm going to Vegas to do a club because I don't want to do casinos.
Marc:I'm not out to conquer the world.
Guest:I do like an intimate crowd.
Marc:Oh, it's the best.
Guest:Yeah, I do like it.
Marc:Because then you can really get into that, like what you were saying before.
Marc:What am I trying to say with this stuff?
Marc:What's funny about this stuff?
Marc:What risks can I take here?
Guest:Yeah, it's just a different exchange of energy.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:I love intimacy in that way.
Marc:Well, it's good talking to you.
Guest:It was great talking to you, Mark.
Marc:Thanks for having me.
Marc:Thanks for doing it.
Marc:I'll see you in Canada.
Guest:I'll see you in Canada.
Marc:Okay, that was wild.
Marc:The big reveal of the horrible accident and her attitude around it and how she's framed it in her life.
Marc:You can go to ZainabJohnson.com for her stand-up dates.
Marc:And also, if you could, just hang out a minute, please.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Hang on.
Marc:Just please hold.
Marc:So I've been going a little crazy because I have Neil Gaiman on Monday, and I've got to talk to him.
Marc:And there was a brief window in my life where Sandman and Hellblazer were very important to me.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:I think I was still a little out of my mind.
Marc:I think I felt like, you know, that the John Constantine story was sort of like my future.
Marc:You know, I had no... I was having problems with reality.
Marc:I think it was probably somewhere in the... Yeah, it had to have been...
Marc:The sort of mid to late 80s, like 87-ish when I went through this comic book stuff.
Marc:I think it was the beginning of Hellblazer and then Sandman came later.
Marc:And it was sort of like, you know, it was speaking to a part of me as someone who is not a fantasy nerd that, you know, that somehow resonated with my reality.
Marc:That's the sad truth.
Marc:I don't know if I bring that up with Gaiman.
Marc:I guess we'll all find out.
Marc:But he's on Monday.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm in Montreal this weekend at Just for Laughs.
Marc:My solo shows are sold out, but my gala is on Saturday night.
Marc:Then next week I'll be in Columbus, Ohio at the Southern Theater on August 4th, Indianapolis, Indiana.
Marc:I'm at the Old National Center on August 5th, Louisville, Kentucky at the Baumhard Theater, August 6th, which I hope is not a prophecy.
Marc:All those dates I'll be doing with Lara Bites.
Marc:Then I'm back at Dynasty Typewriter in L.A.
Marc:on August 14th.
Marc:And then Lincoln, Nebraska at the Rococo Theater on August 18th.
Marc:Des Moines, Iowa at the Hoyt Sherman Place on August 19th.
Marc:And Iowa City, Iowa at the Englert Theater on August 20th.
Marc:All with Lara Bites.
Marc:The very funny Lara Bites.
Marc:Lara.
Marc:Lara.
Marc:In September, I'm in Tucson, Arizona, Phoenix, Arizona, Boulder, Colorado, and Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Marc:In October, I'm in London, England, and Dublin, Ireland.
Marc:Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all dates and ticket info.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Now here's some slide guitar.
Marc:Sloppy slide on an old K guitar tuned to an open D. I'll just give it a try.
Marc:I'm giving it a try.
Marc:Let's see.
Guest:Let's see.
Let's see.
guitar solo
Guest:guitar solo
guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey LaFonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.