Episode 1343 - Atsuko Okatsuka
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it uh look i know how you're doing you're terrible it's awful it's fucking happening
Marc:It's one thing to know something's going to happen, no matter how awful it is, knowing that it's going to happen eventually.
Marc:And then it happens.
Marc:There's always some part of the brain that holds out hope for something that wants to believe something will work out, that wants to believe that it will be OK.
Marc:It's not OK.
Marc:With the overturning of Roe v. Wade, it puts over half of the population of our country in a position where they have lost the constitutional right to their physical autonomy.
Marc:They no longer can take ownership of their bodies.
Marc:This is part of the Christofascist white nationalism that is taking over the country.
Marc:If you look at the states, a lot of state governments have been radicalized by either white nationalists or Christian white nationalists or just flat-out grifters who want a piece of this action.
Marc:And this is just the beginning.
Marc:This is not we went back in time or America has regressed.
Marc:This is the beginning of what the future looks like.
Marc:And I know there are people that are like, hey, man, but it'll just be a state issue.
Marc:There'll be states you can...
Marc:You can get abortions and there are people that are like it only affects a certain age of woman.
Marc:It affects all women and all men, all citizens of the country that such a large group, an entire gender has been denied their rights.
Marc:They're no longer free.
Marc:I mean, it's arguable that most of us aren't, but in this way, in this very public way and on paper and in law, women are no longer free in this country.
Marc:And look, I don't love having to speak this way, but it's horrendous.
Marc:And there's not a lot of men speaking about it, which is baffling to me because almost every man who's got any game or has lived a life has paid for one of those things.
Marc:They're certainly in support of choice.
Marc:People say, speak out, it's time.
Marc:It was time years ago.
Marc:We knew this was coming.
Marc:We knew it was possible.
Marc:That guy was elected.
Marc:This is what happens.
Marc:But right now, I just feel heartbroken and despairing and scared and angry that it's happening.
Marc:This is what a Christo-fascist, white nationalistic government is
Marc:is gonna look like, and it's only gonna get worse.
Marc:Who the fuck knows how much worse?
Marc:And we should be angry.
Marc:I feel terrible, and I feel terrified.
Marc:That's where I'm at.
Marc:I don't know about funny.
Marc:I don't know about funny.
Marc:But I do know that more than half the population has been denied their rights.
Marc:That's policy.
Marc:How far does it go?
Marc:So, well, let's do a show.
Marc:I need to do the show.
Marc:Today I talked to Atsuko Akatsuka.
Marc:uh she's a comedian uh she's a stand-up who works here in la as well as a writer i've seen her around i've seen her i met her where'd i meet her i met her backstage at the comedy store she's been at largo she opens for birbiglia she's on youtube you can go see a viral video of her doing stand-up at the ice house in pasadena when an earthquake hit it's pretty entertaining she she
Marc:She stayed in the saddle and rift and kept people calm.
Marc:But she's also a very interesting story.
Marc:It's a heavy story.
Marc:It's not the usual story.
Marc:And she's a very interesting person.
Marc:And I talked to her before the striking down.
Marc:I guess it's called the Dobbs decision of the striking down of Roe v. Wade.
Marc:So that doesn't come up.
Marc:But it was good.
Marc:It was great to talk to her.
Marc:It kind of unfolded nicely.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:Everybody good?
Marc:I hope you're good.
Marc:I hope you have been buying some nice melons and enjoying your food and at least finding some solace.
Marc:and the life you're living in your immediate environment.
Marc:It's really a difficult thing, the idea of hope, and the idea of just plodding through, living in difficult times, living in times where it doesn't seem like anything is going to get better or anything is going to change for the better.
Marc:So what does one do?
Marc:How much do you internalize it?
Marc:What do you do with that?
Marc:What actions do you take?
Marc:How do you keep fighting?
Marc:How do you maintain hope?
Marc:How do you not fall into yourself?
Marc:How do you not allow yourself to be bullied or killed by the other side?
Marc:People who don't believe this shit should be able to live with the same freedoms as people that do.
Marc:This is not the way this country was supposed to go.
Marc:But ultimately there's going to be a lot of people dying unnecessarily because they don't want the child they're carrying.
Marc:There's going to be a lot of people dying unnecessarily because the child can't be taken care of.
Marc:There's going to be a lot of new drug addicts, new mentally ill people, new people with compromised capacity because there's no place for them in the world.
Marc:But these fuckers are willing to hedge their bets like that.
Marc:through force, through denying rights.
Marc:I'm sorry if this was heavy, and I... No, I'm not.
Marc:I'm not sorry it was heavy, but it's not a good lead-in to my guest, and I want to respect her, too.
Marc:This woman's very smart.
Marc:She's very funny.
Marc:She's interesting.
Marc:She's unique.
Marc:And it was exciting to talk to her.
Marc:So this is me talking to Atsuko Okatsuka,
Marc:I should say that she's going to be performing at Largo in Los Angeles here in Los Angeles on July 18th for her Otsuko and Friends show along with Fred Armisen and Margaret Cho.
Marc:And this is us talking.
Marc:This is us doing the thing.
Guest:Schizophrenia.
Marc:Yeah, we spelled it.
Marc:Schizophrenia.
Guest:You did it on your own.
Marc:No, I did not.
Guest:Okay, okay.
Guest:You did two H's.
Marc:Yeah, I was not even heading in the right direction.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Well, I had S-C-H.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I had I, but then I threw a T in there.
Marc:So I didn't go directly to Z. Oh.
Marc:So that didn't work.
Guest:You threw a T in there, yeah.
Marc:And then Bingo, what's his name?
Marc:Like schizophrenia as opposed to schizophrenia.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you said it's because it's in somebody's book?
Marc:It's a title book.
Marc:It's a title of a book that I talked about with Kate Berlant.
Marc:It's a book called A Thousand Plateaus.
Marc:It's a philosophy, cultural criticism book that's very dense.
Marc:And I came up in conversation and someone emailed me about the book that I was talking about and she thought it was another book.
Marc:So I needed to prove her wrong.
Marc:Got you.
Guest:No, of course.
Guest:I understand.
Marc:Yeah, I wouldn't stand for it.
Guest:You look like you were in the middle of being like, no, I've got to let them know I'm right.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:When I first approached you.
Guest:Yeah, you felt that?
Guest:Well, no, I actually thought you were thinking about me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I thought you were thinking about my mom.
Marc:But I didn't know that at all.
Marc:How would I have known that?
Marc:Is that well documented that your mother is schizophrenic?
Guest:I mean, I've been talking about it more recently.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So it's not like well documented.
Guest:It's not like in a documentary.
Guest:Yet.
Guest:I made a documentary about it, but it's just like on my YouTube.
Guest:It was just for film school.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:So it's been a while since she's been diagnosed.
Guest:Yeah, since I was 20s, I think.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Something like that.
Marc:Well, I mean, it's so weird because we can definitely talk about that, but I didn't know you.
Marc:I don't know how I didn't know you, but I think I'm missing a whole generation now.
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but for some reason I thought maybe like your producer or somebody, it was just weird happenstance that my mother has schizophrenia.
Guest:Oh, no, I get it.
Guest:No.
Guest:And the first thing you say to me is, how do you spell schizophrenia?
Guest:You know, how am I not going to think it's about me?
Guest:I know.
Marc:But because you did, now I have this information that we're going to talk about, but I thought we'd lead up to it.
Guest:No, of course.
Marc:I don't know if we need to open with my mom's schizophrenic.
Marc:We don't have to open with that.
Guest:Oh, we don't have to at all.
Guest:That's why we opened with the book and the fact that you're right about whatever you were telling this person.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I showed that lady.
Guest:I showed her.
Guest:Yeah, you freaking showed her.
Guest:I don't even know who you're writing.
Marc:I don't either.
Marc:It just came through the website.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It was just a website email.
Guest:I love that you take your time to write people back.
Marc:You do that.
Marc:Only when I have to prove that I'm right about something.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:If it angers you.
Marc:Well, I know.
Marc:She just brought up another book and I don't even know if I talked about the book she was talking about.
Marc:And I don't always respond to people on the, even if they anger me, I try to let that go.
Marc:But this woman was just being earnest.
Marc:She wasn't a bad person.
Marc:She was a smart person that thought we might've been talking about the book that she wanted us to be talking about.
Marc:I don't think we were.
Marc:Do you respond to shitty people?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Probably way too much.
Guest:You still do?
Guest:Yeah, I've tried to take a break from it.
Guest:My husband helps me sort of like figure out, filter out social media folk.
Marc:He's an actor.
Marc:I've seen him on some of your stuff.
Marc:Is he an actor?
Guest:He's an actor.
Guest:He's an artist.
Guest:He paints as well.
Guest:Painter?
Guest:Yeah, he paints.
Marc:Abstract or figurative?
Guest:Yeah, I guess abstract portraits of, like, he loves human faces.
Guest:He loves doing faces.
Marc:But you can identify that they're faces?
Guest:Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So they're not really abstract.
Guest:They're just... Oh, you're right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I always try to put meaning in abstract anyway.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't like it when I don't get something.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Do you like it?
Marc:To be left out?
Guest:Yeah, I hate that.
Guest:But, you know, it's the art world and you're supposed to get it.
Marc:They're the worst.
Marc:The art world is like a very insulated world.
Marc:They have to be that way.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Or else it won't sell.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:To justify their existence, they have to be sort of a little arrogant and do things that we won't understand.
Guest:The more you're confused, the more you'll buy.
Guest:I think it's not just the art world.
Guest:It works with a lot of other things.
Marc:Not with comedy.
Guest:I think some people might actually.
Marc:Oh yeah, because they don't get it.
Marc:They're like, this person's a genius.
Marc:I don't get it.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I actually think so.
Guest:You know how they always say like, oh, you know, if people hate you, they also look you up and that bumps you up too, you know, and that gets you booked.
Guest:You ever hear that?
Marc:Sure, all press is good press.
Guest:Right, that kind of thing.
Guest:The more people are confused about why him or why her, the more sometimes they buy into your stuff.
Marc:I didn't find that with me.
Guest:I'm not saying that's me either.
Marc:That was not my journey.
Marc:When people didn't like me, it did not help me.
Guest:But you had to be confusing too, Mark.
Guest:It's because you made sense.
Guest:I think I was just angry.
Guest:It's because you made sense.
Marc:I was just angry.
Marc:I think it was confusing that they thought I was angry and I think I genuinely was angry.
Guest:Yeah, but that makes sense.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:As long as you make sense to me and what you're trying to say.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it should be funny.
Marc:We're comedians.
Marc:It should be funny.
Guest:And funny too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't think a lot of people thought I was funny.
Marc:I think you're very funny.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Marc:And, you know, it's not confusing in the sense that, like, no, she's trying to be funny and she's being funny.
Guest:I was so scared of being confusing.
Guest:You were?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, because you always think, like, oh, maybe I'm not relatable because I'm so specific, you know?
Guest:Oh, you know, if you felt like an outsider growing up or something, I think that is a...
Guest:You know, a thought you have when you get, you know, find the arts or something.
Guest:I hope I make sense.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think that's true, though, because I felt awkward.
Marc:I felt like an outsider, but not ethnically.
Marc:I just felt like an outsider because I was uncomfortable.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:And that's legit, too.
Marc:You know, I guess that's why a lot of us do it, because we're just sort of like we don't fit in.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then you hope it makes sense.
Guest:And so, you know, then there's like anti-comedy movements where it's like, I'm supposed to not make sense.
Guest:I'm not quite there with that kind of stuff yet because it's like, I just started making sense.
Marc:I think that's behind you.
Marc:I think that's something you do before you make sense.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Like experimental, getting weird?
Marc:Right.
Marc:I think it's a way of figuring out who you are.
Marc:I don't think you need to commit to that.
Marc:I know very few people that commit to that as a life.
Guest:Oh, sure, sure.
Marc:You can be weird because you don't quite need to be funny, yet you don't want to fail.
Marc:So you're just sort of, I'm just too weird.
Guest:Right, being weird.
Guest:But don't you think you have to be normal first to be weird?
Marc:No, sadly.
Guest:Or not normal, but have the foundation, you know, to be an experimental dancer or a poet or right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You have to have the foundation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, I but I don't know that that happens much.
Marc:Like, do you have people in your mind right now that are like sort of like, well, that person's weird on purpose and doing a thing.
Marc:I can only think of maybe one.
Guest:Oh, sure.
Guest:Can you?
Guest:For, like, comedy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, I'm talking, like, with anti-comedy.
Guest:I mean, like, the Eric Andres, I guess, you know.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:Or maybe, like, Meg Stalter.
Guest:I don't know if you know her.
Guest:I do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, she was the YouTuber, a TikTok person that's now on Hacks.
Marc:She plays the secretary on Hacks.
Guest:Yes, yeah, and her influence is someone like Kate Berlant, you know.
Marc:But, like, I watched Berlant because, like, I didn't...
Marc:I was iffy about her, you know, and I didn't really know her or what her work was.
Marc:But when you watch her stand up, she's clearly doing stand up.
Guest:She makes sense to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I totally get.
Marc:But it's jokes and it's a persona and, you know, there are laughs.
Marc:There's timing to it.
Marc:There are laughs.
Guest:A hundred percent.
Marc:And Eric Andre, I think, is a funny person, but he's doing something that's sort of... I don't know if it's anti-comedy.
Marc:I think it's more sort of extreme comedy.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:It's punk rock.
Marc:Extreme.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Extreme, like... Like X. Like X-T-R-E-M-E.
Marc:Extreme, like push it to the limit where things blow up and I may hurt myself.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Marc:It's sort of punk rock.
Marc:It's kind of like Jackass.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Sure, sure, sure, sure.
Guest:I mean, extreme comedy, but when you say extreme comedy, I'm like, I am dying laughing because it's the funniest thing.
Guest:It can't get any funnier.
Guest:That's why you call it extreme.
Marc:Well, I think I was using extreme in the way that they use it for exports.
Marc:Yeah, when people land on their head.
Marc:Not for the audience experience, but for what's happening.
Guest:right because someone might get injured yeah something like that usually the performer sure yeah yeah and maybe the audience too yeah but I know what you're saying it's I guess it's anti-comedy but I think anti-comedy is more like Neil Hamburger sure there's Neil yeah Neil's like anti-comedy right right that's essentially what he's
Guest:And props, oh my gosh, I know.
Guest:And then the commitment to it, right?
Guest:Yeah, I can only, you know, for me, it's like the more honest someone is, I really, really, really, I'm so drawn to that.
Guest:Yeah, me too.
Marc:I have a hard time with people that don't show themselves.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, and maybe sue us, but I agree, that's what drew me into the arts anyway, right?
Guest:It is?
Guest:It is, yeah.
Marc:When did you start watching, it's not clear to me your path.
Guest:Yeah, no, I totally get it.
Guest:I totally understand because I had just figured out my path too.
Marc:Because when I said that, I didn't know who you were.
Marc:I mean, you clearly have been working.
Marc:I just realized you existed recently because I saw that you were opening for Mike somewhere.
Guest:Oh, yeah, Birbiglia.
Marc:But you weren't really on my radar, but that doesn't mean that you're not popular because I'm slowly becoming an old man and I'm sort of insulated.
Marc:I don't know what's going on out there.
Guest:And you're busy as hell.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you've been doing it a long time already, right?
Guest:I have.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, it was really the pandemic that allowed me to sort of like figure out, you know, things.
Guest:And I was, you know, everything was locked down.
Guest:So I went online more.
Guest:You know, I went online more.
Guest:I had been doing stand up for 11 years.
Guest:And, you know, with with some breaks in between, I went to art school in between.
Guest:Really?
Marc:So where do you come from, though, originally?
Marc:What's the origin story?
Marc:I see parts of it, but it sounds exciting.
Marc:It sounds like there might have been drama.
Guest:Yeah, there was drama, for sure.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because we started with schizophrenia.
Marc:Well, schizophrenia, I know your grandmother brought you up.
Marc:I know that you ran away or something from somewhere.
Marc:But you can't.
Marc:No, for sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:See, you already got it.
Marc:Well, not really.
Guest:But I mean, but you were like, your name's Japanese, right?
Guest:Yeah, my name's Japanese.
Guest:I'm half Taiwanese.
Guest:So I was born in Taiwan.
Guest:I grew up in Japan.
Guest:How's that work?
Guest:So why were you born in Taiwan?
Guest:I was born there because I have an uncle who's an OBGYN, so my mom's brother pulled me out of her.
Guest:It's a discount.
Guest:My family loves a discount.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Doctors know doctors.
Guest:For sure.
Marc:It's just like, well, he's going to do it for free.
Marc:But did he do it at the house?
Marc:At the hospital.
Guest:Isn't that cool?
Guest:With all the goods, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With all the tools he needed.
Marc:It's better like even he's a family member, but it could have been just like, we don't need to do it at the hospital.
Marc:Let's just do it at the house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Hook us up with all the stuff.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:And the meds, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm still shy around that uncle, you know?
Guest:It's just first day.
Guest:You're shy?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Marc:I didn't think your mother would be shy.
Guest:That's for them to figure out, a funny brother-daughter, sister, brother-daughter, brother-sister dynamic.
Guest:And so that's why I was born there.
Guest:Also, my mother's side is all Taiwanese.
Marc:But were your parents living in Japan at the time?
Marc:And they came back to do that?
Guest:Yeah, they came back to do that, yeah.
Guest:My father is Japanese, and he is in Japan, and he stayed there while all that happened.
Guest:My mom and dad sort of got put together via my grandma.
Guest:There was this service- Which grandma?
Guest:My Taiwanese grandma.
Marc:Okay, the one that you live with?
Guest:Yeah, the one that I'm close with, yeah.
Marc:She put your parents together?
Guest:Yeah, she answered this ad in the newspaper in Japan.
Guest:It was like this romantic, almost like a game show.
Guest:We're going to put people together romantically.
Guest:We need contestants.
Guest:And so my grandma signed my mom up.
Marc:Okay, so she didn't know your dad.
Guest:No, she didn't.
Guest:Yeah, she didn't know my dad.
Guest:So she, yeah, she in weird ways, you know, because she signed my mom up for this program is the reason why my mom and dad met.
Marc:And so your dad was another contestant.
Guest:He was.
Guest:Yeah, he was a male contestant looking for love.
Guest:And my mom was a female consistent contestant looking for love.
Marc:But at this point, your mother had not become mentally ill yet.
Guest:No, no, she hadn't, yeah.
Guest:But my grandma knew something was wrong with my mom, you know?
Guest:And signing her up in Japan, another country, a place you don't even speak the language of, you know what I mean?
Guest:She was just like, this bitch is in her 30s, something's wrong with her.
Guest:You know, at the time, that's all you needed, right, was to be a woman in your 30s.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:With no boyfriend.
Marc:Yeah, what's the problem?
Marc:So your grandmother thought I got to get rid of her.
Guest:She's mentally ill.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:She was mentally ill.
Guest:She was.
Guest:She wasn't so wrong.
Guest:But yeah, so that's what... And that worked?
Marc:Did they have to go on TV and stuff?
Marc:Did it happen on television?
Guest:I believe it was filmed.
Guest:It's sort of like this weird shame that my family has around this...
Marc:Around your parents?
Guest:Around the way they met, yeah.
Marc:Both sides?
Marc:It's shameful?
Guest:Both sides, yeah.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Yeah, and so I don't actually know the full story.
Guest:That's why it's kind of iffy with what exactly happened.
Marc:So your mom went to Japan.
Guest:My mom went to Japan.
Marc:Met your father.
Marc:They just got married immediately, or-
Guest:They went on like three dates after they met through this program.
Guest:Through the show, yeah.
Guest:And then quickly was like, look, we need to figure out green card stuff.
Guest:We get along and got married, yeah.
Marc:And how long did that last?
Marc:Oh, a year.
Guest:They were talking to each other in broken English.
Marc:They didn't speak each other's language.
Marc:She spoke Taiwanese and he spoke Japanese.
Marc:No one was going to learn the other one, but they did have you.
Guest:They did have me, yeah.
Guest:I mean, you know, lust.
Guest:Lust is universal.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:So your mom's pregnant and she goes back to Taiwan, has you, and then you go back to Japan?
Guest:That's right, yeah.
Marc:But your parents only lasted a year, so your mom brought you up in Japan?
Guest:Yeah, so it was my mom and grandma, and then they had joint custody with my dad.
Guest:So I would go to his place sometimes, or sometimes I would just be with my mom and grandma.
Marc:But your grandma moved to Japan?
Guest:Yeah, my grandma moved to Japan as well.
Marc:So no one knew how to speak Japanese?
Guest:My grandma sort of knew some from when she was younger because Taiwan was occupied by Japan.
Guest:Oh, that's interesting.
Guest:So you're right.
Guest:There is a lot of drama.
Guest:Like earlier when you gave the quick summary of my life, you know, you said something about Japan, something about running away.
Guest:You were correct.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is just like the long version of it, obviously.
Marc:But it's like a history.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Like, I don't know that Japan occupied Taiwan before.
Marc:Yeah, it's a whole ass thing.
Marc:And then now China's got it and it's about to shift.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:So Taiwan, yeah.
Guest:When people ask me what's happening with Taiwan, the easiest way to explain it is kind of like what Ukraine is going through right now with Russia.
Guest:Could happen.
Guest:Could happen, right, with China.
Guest:Yeah, so it's like a similar thing.
Guest:Taiwan's been occupied by various people before, like the Dutch or Japan.
Guest:How long ago was it Japanese?
Guest:Oh, just in like the 40s.
Marc:Right, because it was Japanese when it got known for making all the electronics.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Like made in Taiwan.
Marc:That was when it was Japanese.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Probably.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, so like World War Two, it was part of Japan and all that.
Marc:Interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, like this is stuff like an educated person should know, but I do not.
Guest:No, you kind of knew.
Guest:Your eyes lit up.
Marc:I'm just putting it together.
Guest:You were like, made in Taiwan.
Guest:I've heard of it.
Marc:Well, yeah, of course.
Guest:I saw it.
Guest:I saw it happen.
Marc:It was a thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I'm just putting together that it wasn't that long ago that it was Japanese.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So your grandmother had some Japanese in her.
Guest:Right.
Guest:She had some Japanese in her.
Guest:So my mom had learned a few words, too, you know, and the characters, the Chinese characters and Japanese characters can sort of translate.
Guest:Do you speak both?
Guest:I do speak both.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They're very different, though, aren't they?
Guest:They're very different.
Guest:I always say with Japanese, how Yoda speaks is actually how Japanese works.
Yeah.
Guest:It really is.
Marc:Oh, you mean the structure of the sentences?
Guest:100%.
Guest:That's why it's difficult, though.
Guest:Imagine talking like that all the time.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Now that you know English, Mark, right?
Marc:I barely have a handle on English.
Guest:Yeah, me too.
Marc:If you were to ask me simple grammar questions, I probably could not answer.
Marc:I could do verb, noun, adverb, adjective.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that's it.
Guest:That's pretty good.
Guest:That's all you need to know.
Guest:You know how to communicate.
Guest:In the highest form.
Marc:I can talk good.
Guest:Not just that, in the highest form.
Guest:To talk comedically?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You've excelled at a language.
Marc:right but what i'm saying is that the i think the reason why i was never able to really learn other languages is i have a hard time with grammar structure right and i think it's sort of there's a mathematics to language that if you have a grasp on it is sort of a gateway to understanding other languages that you you're a hundred percent right yeah yeah no that's true sometimes you blow my mind slowly like i'm like oh yeah i see what you're saying and i'm like boom oh my god
Marc:Right.
Marc:What happens then?
Marc:Like, how long did you live in Japan?
Guest:I lived there till I was 10.
Guest:And then what happened was, so my grandma, I'm starting to realize, my grandma's always sort of like created this like cult of three people, me, my mom and grandma.
Guest:It's always me, my mom and grandma.
Marc:Three generations.
Guest:Three generations of women.
Guest:Have you seen Grey Gardens?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's our family.
Guest:But add another woman, you know, and make it immigrant.
Marc:A Japanese Grey Gardens?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'd like to see that.
Guest:Yeah, it's messed up.
Marc:Taiwanese Grey Gardens?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Who's got the big house?
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Guest:I mean, but with a smaller house, yeah.
Guest:We lived in a small... Are there raccoons in there?
Guest:In the house?
Guest:There were hamsters, birds.
Guest:Wild hamsters?
Marc:I mean... They don't live in the wild, do they?
Guest:We're sophisticated enough.
Marc:We went to the pet store.
Marc:Got nice hamsters.
Marc:I've never been there.
Marc:I've actually been to China, but I've never been to Japan, and I think I should go see Japan.
Marc:It seems amazing to me.
Marc:Do you remember pretty good?
Marc:Do you go back?
Guest:I go back to Taiwan more than Japan.
Guest:I have less family in Japan now.
Guest:There's drama.
Guest:My mom marrying into the family, my mom being Taiwanese.
Guest:Japan's very xenophobic, actually.
Marc:You mean there's drama on your dad's family side because your mom was from Taiwan?
Guest:Because my mom was from Taiwan, because they missed their actual mother.
Guest:My mom was the stepmom coming in, you know.
Guest:Oh, the father had kids?
Guest:My dad already had kids from a previous marriage.
Guest:And then my dad signed up for this program and then suddenly was getting married so quickly, you know.
Guest:Ah.
Guest:my half-brother and half-sister who were already teenagers.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, they're also teenagers.
Guest:When you're teenagers, you're just already like, who is this new woman?
Guest:Right.
Marc:So you have these older half-siblings.
Marc:They're like way old, right?
Guest:Yeah, they're older.
Guest:Like my age?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:I'm 58.
Guest:Yeah, a little younger.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, a little younger.
Guest:But they were skeptical.
Guest:You know, they just, they were like, she doesn't even speak your language.
Guest:Is this just for lust?
Guest:You know, you met her on a program.
Guest:Oh, and then-
Guest:And then my mom, after she had me, is actually when she started showing signs of schizophrenia.
Guest:So she was throwing temper tantrums, hallucinating, throwing things, stopping birthday parties.
Marc:So then your dad's family was like, told you.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Told you.
Guest:And we don't like that side of the family.
Marc:Was it like postpartum too?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I bet postpartum really triggered the schizophrenia.
Marc:She was keeping it in check.
Marc:Because schizophrenia, I think, is onset in your 20s.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Is that how old she was?
Guest:So it's younger for men.
Guest:It could be even 18 to 20s for men.
Guest:For women, it's 20s and 30s.
Guest:My mom was in her 30s.
Guest:So that's really when it started.
Guest:But she wasn't actually diagnosed until I was in my 20s.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:You just thought she was weird?
Guest:Yeah, I was like, oh, maybe it's a Taiwanese thing.
Guest:No, I mean, I, you know, I didn't have, I watched a lot of Disney movies growing up and they never have moms in them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Think about all the princesses.
Guest:They all have dads.
Guest:No moms.
Guest:And stepmoms.
Marc:I never thought about it.
Marc:But no moms.
Marc:Stepmoms.
Marc:Oh, I guess it's part of the mythology.
Marc:They all died in childbirth.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, 100%.
Guest:So I didn't know how moms were supposed to be.
Guest:I just thought maybe this is how mothers are.
Guest:They throw things and they see things.
Marc:That's why they're not in Disney movies?
Guest:Yeah, I was like, mm-hmm, it makes sense.
Guest:It's just me and Disney out there sharing the same life.
Marc:Why would they put this character in a Disney movie?
Guest:What, like just a mom with schizophrenia?
Guest:That's why representation matters, Mark.
Marc:I know, it does.
Marc:So we've got to fight for it.
Marc:We need schizophrenic Asians in more Disney movies.
Guest:Yeah, 100%.
Guest:Yeah, maybe the Mulan part four?
Marc:Fight for it.
Marc:But so you didn't run away from Japan.
Marc:How did the exodus happen?
Marc:Because that's what seems dramatic to me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So the exodus, you know, because there was drama with the Japanese side of the family and my mom's, you know, hallucinations were flaring up even more.
Marc:What were they?
Guest:Well, you know, so always thinking that we were under attack, right?
Guest:By our neighbors.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:They were sent by the Taiwanese government.
Marc:And this continues.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This continues.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Till this day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:And so, and then my mom got sort of suicidal actually.
Guest:And so my grandma had made a plan for us to move to the United States.
Guest:All you need is a relative, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All of us.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All you need is a relative somewhere and that's where you move.
Guest:I mean, that's probably how your family ended up here.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Cause like, don't you have like, aren't you like Ukrainian and Polish or something?
Marc:Well, that's where the roots are.
Marc:But like, you know, I don't think so.
Marc:I think like, you know, the Jews were actively running from things.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:A hundred percent.
Marc:And like, I'm not sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think just in the knowledge that there were other Jews there was probably enough.
Marc:But I don't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But mine were here.
Marc:Most of my family was here before World War Two, to be honest with you.
Guest:So I don't I don't I don't know if there was like an uncle already here.
Marc:There might have been.
Guest:Or even, again, even if it's like other Jews are there, that's enough.
Guest:Maybe they'll hook me up with a job.
Marc:Yeah, Taiwanese community.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:And so my grandma happened to, one of her sons already moved to LA.
Guest:One of your uncles?
Guest:One of my uncles, not the doctor, computer engineer.
Guest:He had come to LA and was like, sure, come over.
Guest:But my grandma told me we were coming here for just a two-month vacation.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, just a summer vacation, two months.
Guest:Did you get along with your dad?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I actually did.
Guest:I have a good relationship with my dad, but I was sort of torn from him because I packed lightly.
Guest:When someone says, you're going to L.A.
Guest:for a summer, you're just bringing a carry-on bag.
Marc:But all your toys and shit.
Guest:Also, I'm like 10 years old.
Guest:I don't have that much shit.
Guest:So I come over, and then two months turns into a few months, and then it turns into a year.
Marc:How'd they sell you that?
Guest:You know, every time I try to mention it to my grandma, you know, I was like, grandma, it's been three months now.
Guest:You know, she'd be like, she would shush me because she didn't want my mom to hear because my mom was pissed off about this plan too.
Guest:And she was just afraid of her temper tantrums.
Guest:So I just never got to openly talk about it.
Guest:I just had to sort of keep it inside that I was now stuck in the United States.
Marc:Were you talking to your dad?
Guest:I was.
Guest:I was starting to write him letters telling him, hey, I think we're staying here.
Guest:And he was heartbroken too because he didn't quite know about the plan either.
Guest:My grandma had plotted this thing.
Guest:She just thought we'd have a better life here.
Guest:She was like, maybe your mom's voices will go away.
Guest:Maybe it's Japan that's triggering the schizophrenia.
Marc:Because she felt isolated.
Guest:Yeah, she's like, you know, we're Taiwanese there.
Guest:Japan don't like it if you're other Asian.
Marc:But your dad's family didn't seem to like her.
Guest:Right, as well as that, yeah.
Guest:So, you know, they were just like, it's Japan.
Guest:We need to move.
Guest:It's not us.
Guest:It's Japan.
Guest:So if we move locations, it'll be better.
Guest:You know, when we came to L.A., we were like, we're freaks here, too.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Where'd you end up first?
Guest:West Los Angeles, yeah.
Guest:Where's that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's where, like, there's an area called Little Osaka where it's got a bunch of Japanese restaurants and grocery stores in the west side of Los Angeles.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I always see signs like that, and I always wonder if they still hold, you know, like Little Armenia.
Guest:Oh, sure.
Marc:Like Philippines.
Guest:Filipino town.
Marc:Yeah, Filipino town.
Marc:Yeah, I wonder, too.
Marc:What justifies that still being that?
Marc:One Filipino family?
Marc:We've been here for a long time.
Guest:Yeah, well, we have the grocery store, you know.
Guest:Everyone else started building stuff around us.
Guest:Everything's charcoal lattes now.
Marc:Well, I know, but like little Armenia, they all moved out here.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:A lot of them.
Guest:Oh, sure.
Guest:To Glendale.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I've talked to Armenians who are like, yeah, my family started over there.
Guest:In Little Armenia.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then who's there now?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:There's got to be a few.
Marc:There's probably a church and there's probably a restaurant that they still go to.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Just to like get props.
Marc:But I think they've been here for a long time.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:So Little Osaka?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's like Little Osaka.
Marc:Was there actual stuff there?
Guest:Yeah, there were actual Japanese grocery stores, karaoke spots.
Marc:They're probably still there.
Guest:They are.
Guest:Yeah, they are.
Guest:They kept that going.
Guest:If it has enough nightlife, even if the neighborhood changes, people will continue going.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Marc:And then the white people come.
Guest:They love karaoke.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They love a nightlife thing, right?
Guest:Or like, oh my God, this is so different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Anything that's kind of different enough that white people aren't scared of.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It'll keep going.
Guest:You know, the business will stay open through gentrification.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, yeah, and so that's where we ended up in my uncle's garage.
Guest:He let us stay there and then we were undocumented.
Marc:All three of you were in the garage?
Guest:All three of us were in the garage.
Marc:Like on just single twin beds?
Guest:We should have started a podcast.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're too bad it wasn't happening yet.
Guest:Can you imagine?
Guest:You think we could have been a hit?
Marc:What, a 10-year-old who was displaced and a schizophrenic mom and your grandma who was holding everything together?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, and we call it WTF.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's still time, it seems like you could do that podcast.
Marc:Couldn't you?
Marc:Don't you use your grandma?
Guest:Doesn't she have an Instagram handle?
Guest:She's on Twitter.
Guest:She has 17,000 followers.
Guest:On Twitter.
Guest:Yeah, which is a lot.
Guest:It is a lot.
Guest:For just an 86-year-old who wants nothing to do.
Guest:Does she just do it?
Guest:Or you do it for her?
Guest:Well, so sometimes she'll be like, I have an idea.
Guest:Can you do this thing?
Guest:And then she tweets the rest of the time.
Marc:What is her Twitter?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's at school's grandma.
Guest:It's at school's grandma.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you're in the garage, undocumented.
Guest:We're in the garage, undocumented.
Marc:But what does that mean?
Marc:You had passports to get here, but you just never signed up to get any type of visa?
No.
Guest:We had, yeah, we had Japanese.
Guest:I had a Japanese passport.
Guest:My grandma and my mom had a Taiwanese passport.
Guest:And we just went to, yeah, we had a visa, just a tourist visa.
Guest:So it's like, yeah, you're allowed in L.A.
Guest:for two months kind of thing.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:And then we were like, how are we staying here?
Marc:And what happened?
Marc:How'd that happen?
Marc:How'd that get resolved?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it was through the visa lottery program.
Guest:My grandma kept pretending we were living in Japan still, and she would apply us every year.
Guest:She is a plotter.
Guest:She is a liar.
Guest:She's a liar.
Marc:The mastermind.
Guest:She's my best friend.
Guest:I probably have Stockholm syndrome.
Guest:She pretty much kidnapped me.
Guest:Yeah, you do.
Guest:She's a mastermind behind all of us moving here.
Guest:And so she kept pretending we lived in Japan, submitted our names every year, and then on the seventh year, all of our names got drawn to get the green card.
Marc:Seven years undocumented, but you never got into trouble.
Guest:Never got into trouble.
Guest:That's why I didn't really know I was undocumented.
Guest:Undocumented folks can actually do a lot of things that people with citizenships can do.
Marc:Because a lot of people aren't asking questions, or they didn't used to before it got more dicey.
Guest:For sure, yeah.
Guest:We could go to the library.
Guest:We could go to public schools.
Marc:But did they have jobs?
Marc:Did your mom have a job?
Marc:No.
Guest:I guess they didn't have a job.
Guest:I mean, my grandma worked some babysitting gigs, stuff that's under the table.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How were you getting by?
Guest:My uncle, who's a doctor, sort of supported us.
Marc:As long as he stayed in the garage?
Guest:We stayed in the garage.
Guest:As long as you, yeah.
Guest:Just don't get seen, okay?
Guest:Don't get found out, and I'll feed you.
Marc:This is another uncle here?
Guest:There's another uncle here, yeah.
Marc:It's not the computer guy.
Guest:The uncle here is the computer guy.
Guest:The computer guy helped us, you know, put us up in his garage.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:The doctor uncle pulled me out of my mom.
Marc:Oh, but he's in Taiwan.
Guest:He's in Taiwan, yeah.
Guest:Oh, he was helping out.
Guest:He would send money.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:He would send money, yeah.
Guest:Where's your mom now?
Guest:My mom lives with my grandma like 20 minutes away from me and my husband.
Guest:They're in Arcadia, which is like a little past Pasadena in a very Asian part of town.
Marc:Yeah, that's where the seafood restaurants are.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They're good, right?
Marc:They are good.
Marc:I haven't gone there.
Marc:No, I used to go to the one downtown, but I haven't gone to one of those Asian seafood places in a long time.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it's a thing.
Guest:Yeah, it's a thing.
Guest:It's a trek.
Guest:You have to make a day out of it.
Marc:And then you kind of sit there and they just keep rolling food around.
Marc:It's not good for me because if there's food, I'll want to eat it.
Marc:And they just keep coming by with the carts.
Guest:So you want to stop.
Guest:I can't stop.
Marc:And I never feel good when I leave.
Guest:Really?
Marc:I have a good time for a while, but then I'm like, I've got to stop.
Guest:Oh, no, I didn't know you battled with that.
Guest:I'm just kidding.
Guest:I do.
Guest:Oh, okay, yeah.
Marc:Because they'll come by and I'm like, what's in that one?
Marc:They're like, Chinese broccoli.
Marc:I didn't get any Chinese broccoli.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You're like, I want that too.
Marc:Yeah, what are those?
Marc:Oh, this is a dessert.
Marc:Can I eat it in the middle of the meal?
Marc:The sesame balls?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What?
Marc:giant sesame balls with the bean paste in the middle.
Marc:The red bean, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so you do like this kind of food.
Guest:Well, you should go with like 10 people, then you can really get like a bite of everything.
Marc:Spread it out, spread it out, yeah.
Guest:But that's a whole ass plan.
Guest:It is.
Guest:So I can see why you're not always going.
Marc:So, okay, so you're there, you're in the garage.
Marc:When do you move out of the garage, though?
Guest:I moved out of the garage when I'm 18.
Guest:Oh no, that's a long time.
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:A garage is not enough space to hold three generations of women and their issues.
Guest:For that long?
Guest:Seven years, yeah.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:It's too much.
Guest:Schizophrenia, I had an eating disorder in the seventh grade.
Guest:It is not enough space to hold all of that.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:We were on top of each other.
Marc:You had an eating disorder too?
Guest:I had an eating disorder.
Guest:I was like, you know.
Marc:Trying to throw up and everyone was around?
Guest:Yeah, my grandma's on top of me trying to wash her vegetables.
Guest:And then my mom's going through menopause also on top of me, you know, trying to do my homework while my mom's, you know, like throwing a temper tantrum.
Guest:It is not enough space.
Guest:It's good for like a teenager.
Guest:I feel like teenagers always live in a garage.
Marc:This is like full trauma action.
Marc:it's too much that that's why i'm like when i watch great gardens i was like that's our family if we were rich yeah but like yeah but it is your family it's it's worse so because of the proximity at least great gardens they could go to the beach or go to another and weren't they like related to jackie kennedy yeah there was a distant cousin or they could go to another room yeah yeah yeah they had nice scarves and stuff but it was full of rodents and garbage but it seems like your grandmother probably kept it pretty clean in there
Guest:Yeah, there wasn't enough space to really hoard, you know, like the Great Gardens.
Marc:How was the adjustment, though?
Marc:How was school and everything?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, school was, you know.
Marc:They never bothered you about the documentation in school, too.
Marc:That's amazing.
Guest:They didn't, yeah.
Marc:It's wild.
Guest:I think, you know, like, L.A.
Guest:is a very, very... I was pretty lucky to have moved to L.A., you know?
Guest:L.A.
Guest:is just, like, so diverse already.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, like, other folks are going through the same thing.
Marc:There's a lot of big Asian community here.
Guest:Big Asian community.
Guest:Just, like, you know, I went to a school with a lot of, like, Latin folk.
Guest:And, you know, a lot of them were also, like...
Guest:probably going through the same thing where they're also undocumented and, you know, lived cramped and stuff like that.
Guest:And so it wasn't, I didn't feel like extra, like a freak, you know, maybe if I had moved to like Arkansas or something, you know, which some people do, you know, when I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico, a lot of the, um,
Marc:I guess they were, where'd they come from?
Marc:Were they Vietnamese?
Marc:That kind of got pushed out at some point in the 80s.
Marc:There was a big Laotian community there that didn't speak any English.
Marc:And they went to my school.
Marc:And I just remember like they... Refugees.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I just remember like they kind of took a liking to me for some reason.
Marc:They invited me to dinner with all of them.
Marc:And I had a crush on one of the girls and stuff.
Guest:Yeah, honorary.
Marc:But I brought like a...
Marc:a 12-pack of beer, and they're not drinkers.
Marc:And they all wanted to drink it, but so many of them got sick.
Marc:They got really drunk really fast, and I felt terrible.
Guest:So you just came and just influenced them.
Guest:You were a bad influence.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:I just did the colonizer thing.
Marc:So I got them all addicted to alcohol.
Guest:And you hooked up with the girl.
Marc:I did not hook up with the girl.
Marc:There was no way to talk.
Marc:Oh, got it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Although that's cool that they invited you in, though.
Marc:The dinner was great.
Marc:It was very exciting.
Marc:The whole thing was exciting.
Guest:Yeah, because it's like new to you, too.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:It was new to them, but it was like the community got to see also this new community.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The whole thing was amazing now that I think about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I didn't add anything new by moving to LA, so I knew that.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's like Japanese culture, you know?
Guest:And people always ask, like, why did you move from... I'm like, I don't... It's a long story.
Guest:Because it sounds wild to be like, I was undocumented.
Guest:Where'd you move from?
Guest:Some war-torn country?
Guest:No, I fucking came from Tokyo.
Guest:Who does that?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Tokyo.
Guest:I came from Tokyo.
Guest:We're not, you know, war-torn.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's like...
Guest:That was the frustrating part, you know, because when I realized that we're living in this cramped space, we don't have rights.
Marc:And you could be in Tokyo, which is a fun, exciting.
Guest:Freaking robots that serve you at restaurants in Japan.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:We were the closest to flying cars.
Marc:I know.
Guest:We left that.
Marc:My only sense of Tokyo is Blade Runner.
Guest:Blade Runner.
Guest:We have Harrison Ford.
Guest:Is it Harrison Ford?
Marc:Yeah, it was Harrison Ford.
Guest:And spaceships.
Marc:Yeah, just space cars driving around.
Guest:In the near future.
Marc:Yeah, and now you're in a garage.
Guest:Now in a garage being like, oh, don't talk to anyone that looks like an officer, you know?
Guest:Couldn't drive, couldn't do anything.
Marc:Well, when did all that change?
Guest:I mean, how did you... So I got my green card after the visa lottery, and then I got my car immediately and then found a boyfriend that lived in Santa Clarita and moved out of that garage and moved right into his place.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:18?
Guest:I was 18, right after high school.
Guest:I was like, boom, yeah.
Guest:White guy?
Guest:Half Asian, half white guy.
Guest:But that would have been, yeah, your trajectory, your thought process wouldn't be wrong.
Guest:To rebel, right?
Guest:To be like, yeah, I'm going with a white guy in Santa Clarita.
Guest:Also, yeah, white guy, Santa Clarita.
Guest:Makes sense.
Marc:So you're out there, and what do you decide to do with your life?
Guest:Yeah, I'm out there.
Marc:Are they mad at you?
Marc:Your grandma?
Marc:Your mom's doing her own thing.
Guest:Yeah, my mom is doing her own thing, talking to her friends in her head.
Guest:And my grandma, she's busy.
Guest:My mom's always busy.
Guest:That is one thing that people get confused.
Guest:Your mom doesn't work.
Guest:Your mom just lays there.
Guest:She's got a lot going on in her brain.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's exhausting.
Guest:You want her to freaking bag bags at Ralph's?
Guest:Like that's so hard already.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like she has like seven voices going on at all times.
Marc:What, she's not on medicine?
Guest:The medication only really helps so much.
Guest:That's the other thing about, I think that's also a myth about like, you know, anti-psychotics.
Guest:It's really hard.
Guest:You have to have the right concoction that works for you.
Guest:And it doesn't mean the voices will go away.
Guest:It just means you might have less manic episodes.
Marc:They're a little more diplomatic, the voices.
Marc:Like, you want to talk or no?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:They ask for consent before they come and take over your freaking brain.
Marc:Mind if I come in?
Marc:You busy?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Or you're talking to the other guy.
Marc:Okay, I'll come back later.
Guest:Yeah, or it might be like four voices instead of six.
Guest:But it's really, it freaking sucks.
Guest:That's why I'm a sweetie, Mark.
Marc:Yeah, you had to accommodate a lot of crazy things.
Marc:Mm-hmm, yeah.
Marc:So you got that personality.
Marc:You're not the crazy person.
Marc:You're the sort of like, are you okay person?
Guest:Yeah, I'm actually very, yeah, I like people.
Guest:I have a lot of empathy for people.
Marc:So what did you decide to do once you're out in Santa Clarita?
Guest:So once I was out there, my grandma was a little worried, but she understood why I needed to take the space away from that life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I was with my boyfriend, and he was the one that started sort of showing me the arts.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:He showed me stand-up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He showed me painting.
Guest:He showed me movies.
Marc:Oh, so he liked all that stuff.
Guest:He loved the arts, yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you got lucky.
Guest:Yeah, I got lucky where I was like, oh, cool, thank you.
Guest:I was so busy kind of living in the traumas, just like the eating disorder, blah, blah, blah.
Marc:What was the eating disorder?
Guest:I had anorexia, and then it turns into bulimia oftentimes.
Marc:And how'd you kick that?
Guest:Finding a routine, right?
Guest:And so at the time I joined the school cheerleading squad.
Guest:Yeah, and that really helps to have a routine.
Marc:That helped you.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:I would feel that I thought that would make it worse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:Our cheerleading squad wasn't like bring it on, the bring it on girls or what you see on Netflix is cheer.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:We were, no.
Marc:What were you?
Guest:Our girls were like, if it weren't for cheer, I would have joined a gang.
Guest:Those were my kind of girls.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Most of them had been shanked before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Some of them were part of the Crips.
Guest:Like, it was like, yeah, it was that kind of girls.
Guest:And so they weren't like about body image.
Guest:It was about like, these are my girls, ride or die.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:My boyfriend is a crip.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'd like to see that cheerleading team.
Guest:Oh yeah, Venice High School.
Guest:Venice High School.
Marc:It was in Venice?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Venice is heavy duty.
Guest:Culver City were the bloods, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, Venice is hardcore.
Marc:It is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, they were.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's where I went to school and found a community, but also a routine.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that helped you.
Guest:They weren't about like looking hot.
Guest:They were like, no.
Guest:Every day, though, we practice from three to five.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you better be there on time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you better get good grades.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Or else you can't be on the squat anymore.
Marc:And eat something.
Guest:eat something because afterwards we're going to car wash seven to nine to make money.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I wonder if, you know, how military does that for people, right?
Guest:Like, you know, a structure, right?
Guest:Really can maybe get you out of a habit that's not great for you or something.
Marc:No, absolutely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It can teach you how to think differently.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Focus on that stuff.
Marc:So the boyfriend though, he took you like, who were the standups you first saw?
Guest:He showed me Robin Williams.
Guest:So it was during a time where you could download stuff for free.
Guest:And then you just kind of hoped it didn't give you a virus on your computer.
Guest:Yeah, Robin Williams.
Marc:Oh, the big MP3 dumps.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So we would download stand-up comedy there.
Guest:Margaret Cho was a big one.
Guest:Although Margaret Cho I was exposed to when I was in the sixth grade.
Guest:I just didn't believe that I could do it because I was like, there's no way.
Guest:She filled up that one slot, you know?
Marc:What did you see?
Marc:Her TV show?
Guest:Notorious CHO, the tour on a DVD in my garage.
Guest:Who had that?
Guest:Your grandma?
Guest:Someone at my church.
Guest:Oh, it gave it to you?
Guest:Yeah, it was like, here, you should check this out.
Guest:She has this bit about Hello Kitty, you'll find it funny.
Guest:I was like, really?
Guest:Bit?
Guest:What's that?
Guest:People just talk?
Guest:American stand-up is not something that Japan really watches.
Marc:Yeah, no, they're too busy with jazz and other stuff, music.
Guest:Yeah, 100%.
Guest:People rarely go, I'm performing in Japan, unless it's for the troops, but that's American folk.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Right.
Marc:It's almost like the Japanese, like everything else American.
Guest:Yes, they do, except for like spoken word comedically.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:It might be a language thing.
Guest:Yeah, I think it's definitely a language thing.
Guest:Also cultural, maybe.
Marc:I just love the Japanese.
Marc:They'll take on something American, some American art, and they're like, we're going to do it better and better made.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And we're going to commit our life to it.
Guest:For sure.
Marc:Motorcycles, jeans, jazz music.
Guest:They really do.
Guest:They truly do.
Guest:Sometimes they take it too far, I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, what have you done to the American jeans?
Marc:Yeah, no, I know.
Marc:It's like there are guys in America, they're like, you got to get this Japanese denim.
Marc:I'm like, do I?
Marc:And you kind of do.
Marc:You kind of got to get some Japanese denim.
Marc:Yeah, no, I've heard of the denim stuff, yeah, where people only... But they do boots in leather, like I have a Japanese suede jacket, but it's all American first.
Guest:Got it.
Marc:The designs.
Guest:Right, they just sort of like... They just sort of make it better, yeah.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:They have that obsession where you put in 10,000... I guess that's an American colloquialism too, 10,000 hours.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:I think that's a Malcolm Gladwell thing.
Marc:It is a Malcolm Gladwell thing, but... I keep remembering this joke that some...
Marc:Comedian did about, way back in the day, was an old comedian that I knew in Boston.
Marc:I don't remember whose joke it was originally.
Marc:But it was like when Japanese tourists, you'd always see Japanese tourists everywhere taking pictures.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Right?
Marc:That was sort of the stereotype.
Marc:And the joke this guy made was like, are they building a scale replica of America in Japan?
Yeah.
Guest:That's so funny, but they totally freaking are.
Guest:I know.
Guest:They totally are.
Guest:They're like, we're going to make this way better.
Guest:Let me just study it for freaking 10 minutes.
Marc:20 years, 30 years.
Marc:So you saw Cho, you saw Robin Williams, but it wasn't like you thought, I'm going to do that.
Guest:I really loved the art form.
Guest:I couldn't believe that people were just coming together to see one person talk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And change their minds about things, but also just be very personal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And make people laugh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Without having to do physical comedy and stuff, because I grew up watching physical comedy.
Guest:That's how I was exposed to comedy.
Marc:Taiwanese comedy?
Marc:Or what?
Guest:You know, like the Buster Keetons, the Lucille Balls.
Marc:Why were you exposed to that?
Guest:Because that's universal.
Marc:Was it on TV?
Guest:It was on TV.
Guest:I Love Lucy was on TV.
Marc:Oh, I got Nick at Night or something?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Or whatever the Japanese version of that was.
Marc:Oh, so they had it in Japan.
Guest:In Japan.
Guest:And so, you know, you're exposed to physical comedy a lot first, you know.
Guest:Buster Keaton.
Guest:Buster Keaton.
Guest:yeah if you didn't speak english and you wanted to get to know american comedy it was physical comedy right charlie chaplin so it was like these you know yeah and so and so i had never seen someone just like stand there and move their mouth and have that be comedy too yeah and me get it because my english had gotten so good that i got it i was like oh my god i can i'm laughing too because i got pretty good at the language
Guest:Again, like I said, the highest grasp, you know you got a language when you can make someone laugh in it, right?
Guest:Or laugh at somebody using the language, who is using that language.
Guest:And so it was ingrained in me.
Guest:And I started trying to make people at my school laugh and stuff.
Marc:By talking?
Guest:By talking, just with words, you know, not doing some weird physical thing or dance or whoopee cushion, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, with words and, you know, and so, yeah, that was sort of when I was exposed to comedy.
Marc:But when did you start, like, what did you, you said you went to art school?
Yeah.
Guest:I went to art school.
Guest:Where?
Guest:I went to CalArts in Santa Clarita.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Represent.
Guest:That's a pretty good school, right?
Guest:That is a good school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've heard someone talk about it.
Guest:Don Cheadle went there.
Marc:Allison Brie went there.
Guest:Oh, she did too?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A lot of people I've talked to.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Cheadle went there.
Marc:I've talked to him about it.
Marc:I think there's one other person I've talked to that went there.
Marc:So you went there for acting?
Yeah.
Guest:No, yeah, strangely.
Guest:So I was trying to like find, you know, you know, the classic like, oh, maybe I don't want to, you know, I should have a backup plan to comedy.
Guest:And so which didn't make sense.
Guest:I just don't have any other skills.
Marc:But you hadn't done comedy yet.
Guest:I had, I started comedy, I started trying comedy like 20, I went to art school like when I was 23.
Marc:Oh, so yeah.
Guest:But I started stand up like 22.
Guest:Where?
Guest:I took a class that I found on Craigslist.
Guest:Who taught it?
Guest:Lisa Sunstead.
Guest:She has a class called Pretty Funny Women.
Guest:And I was just like, I don't know how to start.
Guest:I don't know if I physically can drive to open mics, because I still live in Santa Clarita.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and maybe be okay.
Guest:Like, am I gonna go missing?
Guest:I'm such a ditz.
Guest:If I do things like that, I will go missing.
Guest:I will just like end up at somebody's house or something and then die.
Marc:For a week or just that?
Guest:Something like that, you know?
Guest:And so I was like, maybe I should start, oh, this is an all women standup class.
Guest:Maybe that's a safer way to start.
Guest:You know, I say this while- And she's a comic?
Guest:I find a class on Craigslist and I trust it.
Marc:I feel like I heard her name before.
Guest:Lisa Sunstead, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think, you know, I don't know if she performs as much anymore.
Guest:She mostly performs with the class.
Guest:Like, you know, I think she has a new class every like two months.
Marc:She still teaches?
Guest:She still teaches, I believe.
Marc:How many people were in the class?
Guest:There were 10 people in the class.
Guest:Any of them go on to do it?
Guest:Me, Jenny Yang is a friend of mine, a colleague.
Guest:She's in a lot of writer's rooms right now.
Marc:But she was in the class too?
Guest:Yeah, me and her pretty much.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you didn't know her before?
Guest:I didn't know her before.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And so what'd you learn in the class?
Guest:You know, just like from how set of punchlines work to stage presence to, you know, what are the things that make you funny to how can that maybe turn into a joke.
Guest:So it really helped you?
Guest:It did really help me.
Marc:And was the graduation you get to perform in a club?
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which club?
Guest:We were at the comedy union.
Marc:Oh, really, down on Pico?
Guest:Yeah, so we started there, the Comedy Union.
Guest:That's where we performed.
Guest:So we were able to have our first five minutes, our first five minute sets.
Marc:Well, it's good that you learned all that stuff.
Marc:It should give you confidence.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:And safety.
Guest:Because I was like, I don't know.
Guest:I'll probably spiral.
Guest:If I just start going to open mics, I would pick up all the other stuff.
Guest:I would pick up the cocaine and drinking.
Guest:I just know I would.
Guest:And boyfriends I didn't want.
Guest:I wouldn't be able to focus on joke writing.
Guest:I come from such a chaotic home life that I needed structure.
Guest:Again, like cheerleading.
Guest:I needed a teacher.
Guest:I needed weekly assignments.
Guest:It did stick with me, yeah.
Guest:You know, for a second there after the class, I was like, okay, well, now that the structure is gone, how do I then continue to write jokes on my own?
Guest:For what reason?
Guest:Yeah, without the guidance of a teacher going, that's good, that could be better.
Guest:giving me assignments, giving me deadlines.
Guest:And so I kind of had a hard time.
Guest:Yeah, I kind of fell in and out of it.
Guest:And then I was like, I'll apply to art school.
Marc:Because you were trying to do open mics and stuff?
Guest:I was trying to do open mics.
Guest:I was trying to write new jokes.
Guest:But I think I was starting to lose focus.
Guest:So then I go, I'm going to apply to art school.
Marc:And those are hard.
Marc:They're hard to do, those rooms, aren't they?
Marc:I mean, it's not fun, was it?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You mean open mics?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had fun.
Guest:I always liked it.
Guest:I always liked performing.
Guest:I just got scared.
Guest:And then I think, you know, you start questioning if you can.
Guest:I just was scared because it was like my first time out doing something I really loved that I was like, oh, I think I'm pretty good at it and can be good.
Guest:And that's a scary thing to discover about yourself for the first time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just discovered it a couple weeks ago.
Guest:You're finding that you're funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You always say that, Mark.
Guest:You always say like, oh, I feel like I just found my voice.
Guest:But like, I think you've always.
Marc:I think I've always had it.
Marc:I know, but I don't.
Marc:But I was on stage in South Carolina just the other night.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I was doing all this crowd work and I was kind of weaving it and I was really in the moment.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I love it, but I've never said this before.
Marc:I stopped and I said, I'm good at this.
Guest:Oh, you are.
Guest:You are good at it.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I don't know if I need to do that on stage too often.
Guest:I think it's okay, though.
Marc:I've noticed it lately that I'm kind of enjoying my brain.
Guest:That's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:So when you're enjoying something like that, letting yourself enjoy it instead of getting ahead and being like, I'm scared it'll go away.
Marc:Oh, yeah, I don't know.
Marc:I don't know that I ever really enjoyed it.
Marc:It took me a long time.
Marc:I mean, I know I've been okay at it and that maybe my voice was there, but I can't say that I enjoyed it.
Marc:I'm not even sure what was driving me, but I needed to do it and there was no other options.
Marc:But I think the enjoyment thing is slowly starting to happen, but it's taken this long.
Guest:Yeah, but when you do enjoy it, you don't get ahead and get scared that it'll go away.
Marc:No, I freak out.
Marc:No, I do.
Marc:Okay, yeah.
Marc:Like, I don't want to be thought of as, or more so with me, I can't just sit there and go like, no, I'm great, because I would annoy myself.
Marc:I'm already just on the edge of annoying.
Guest:But that's really funny, though, that you're already like, I'm good at this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think it's okay to live in it, and then you'll find something funny about that, too.
Guest:No, yeah, for sure.
Guest:Because I'm so curious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because when you do that, it makes me happy to see.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I feel like the audience definitely responded similarly, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's just like crowd work is like one of these things that either you can do it or you can't.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:You can do it.
Marc:I mean, I watched that weird earthquake show.
Marc:Oh, sure.
Marc:I mean, but being in the moment, a lot of comics, more than you know, can't really do it.
Guest:Be in the moment.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:And do crowd work if necessary.
Marc:And I don't have any problem with it.
Marc:There's something very exciting about improvising for me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when it really works out, you're sort of like, wow, that was good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, because that's you enjoying the moment.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:Because you're like, I worked my whole life to be able to do this confidently.
Marc:And look what I just did.
Guest:So maybe you always did enjoy it somehow.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, okay.
Marc:But it scared you.
Guest:Me enjoying it scared me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, oh, then I better stop now.
Marc:Because someone's going to take it away?
Guest:Because if I'm so stoked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Someone's going to take it away.
Guest:I'll take it away first.
Marc:So it's a dread from all the trauma upbringing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'll take it away first.
Marc:You know?
Marc:Or it's just going to get shitty.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not.
Marc:I don't.
Marc:It can't work out for me.
Guest:Yeah, so I better do the smart thing.
Guest:I'm going to art school, which totally makes sense, to then just pick up filmmaking and creative writing.
Guest:Is that what you did?
Guest:Which I did.
Guest:And I wasn't bad at those things.
Marc:But creative writing, but filmmaking's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That probably helped you.
Guest:Yeah, filmmaking did help, and I still use it for my social media stuff, those skills that I picked up.
Guest:And I made some independent films, too.
Guest:But I was just tiptoeing around comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, I mean, it's sort of, I think, with your generation, is that...
Marc:You can integrate all that stuff.
Guest:Yeah, you totally can.
Marc:For me, I was just a comedian.
Marc:I don't want to work with people.
Marc:But I eventually did.
Marc:But all I thought about was stand-up.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:And even though film seemed interesting, but I never pursued it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, but we all end up becoming multi-hyphenates anyway.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Kind of have to.
Guest:Look at you with your new software for podcasting.
Marc:It's free software that's not that impressive.
Guest:But still learning that and then, you know, these other skills that you pick up just because comedy first, though.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:But, like, I do adapt.
Marc:But I think I'm at the age, like, just people a little older than me, I think, fell off.
Marc:Like a lot of older people don't adapt.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You know, like if you ever get email from an AOL address, not an adapter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My ex is one.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:But he thought he was so cool that he wasn't adapting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The Santa Clarita guy?
Guest:A different Santa Clarita guy.
Guest:I spent some time there, Mark.
Guest:The second Santa Clarita guy that still has an AOL and thinks it's so cool.
Guest:Way back.
Guest:I still have a flip phone.
Guest:This is why no one knows when you're missing.
Marc:I can understand that.
Marc:Maybe his life is simpler.
Guest:No, for sure, for sure.
Marc:And that he doesn't have a lot of clutter.
Marc:Like, there's something about choosing your own reality that if you keep it minimal, you're probably living a more authentic truth than the rest of us.
Guest:Yeah, probably.
Marc:It's just no one cares.
Guest:I mean, but nobody ever goes like, the authentic truth sometimes is the thing I'm trying to run away from.
Guest:Give me a break, too.
Guest:For sure, yeah, yeah.
Guest:People always go, because I'm not like an outdoorsy person.
Guest:They're always like, oh, let's go.
Guest:The outdoors are so great.
Guest:No distractions, just you and your thoughts.
Yeah.
Guest:Why are you assuming I want to be with my thoughts?
Guest:Maybe that's the thing I've been trying to run away from this whole time.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Don't drag me back there.
Marc:I just got away.
Guest:Me and my thoughts, well, that's not good.
Guest:I always think that that's not good.
Guest:I'm already with my thoughts all of the time.
Guest:We all are.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So did you graduate art school?
Guest:I did graduate.
Guest:I graduated art school, and then I hit comedy harder after that because I was like, what have I done?
Guest:Three years of just the arts, creative writing and film.
Guest:I double majored.
Guest:It was a ton of work.
Guest:And I was like, but the happiest I am is when I'm making people laugh and needling at jokes.
Guest:And so that's when I started hitting it hard.
Marc:But did you have the pressure?
Marc:Because I've talked to...
Marc:Asian people who are the kids of immigrants it seems like your story is different that you didn't have like this kind of weird family structure pressuring you to do something more immediately or something that resembled
Guest:Right, a doctor, someone like my uncle, right?
Guest:Who was able to pull people out of their sisters.
Marc:Yeah, just something that seemed to be guaranteed status and money.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:You didn't have that.
Guest:No, because my grandma and my mom, you know, they were like, we're just happy you're alive.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, when things are so dire...
Guest:Ain't no time to be like, whoa, aren't you going to be a lawyer?
Guest:Aren't you going to be a doctor?
Guest:No, we were just stoked.
Guest:You found something that makes you happy?
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Because your mom's still hearing voices every day.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:There's no time to be like, you know what I mean?
Guest:The classic sort of...
Guest:So, I mean, you know, when I see a lot of Asian American stories, I don't actually relate because of that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because we've got a unique upbringing for Asian person.
Guest:Just three generations of women.
Guest:We didn't even have a male figure.
Marc:One schizophrenic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just a ton and a comedian, you know, and a grandmother who like lied all the time to try to keep the family unit together.
Guest:But she but she seems solid.
Guest:She's solid, yeah.
Guest:I just wish she told me some truths.
Marc:Well, party parenting is gaslighting.
Guest:100%.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:That's why I'm not going to be a parent because I don't think I'd be good at gaslighting.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not a parent, and I don't ever regret not being a parent.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, of cats, and you're happy.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Well, I mean, let's not go crazy.
Guest:Oh, you're like, wait, the happy part?
Marc:The happy part.
Marc:I mean, I'm happy.
Guest:Your cats are happy.
Marc:Yeah, I'm good that I don't have kids.
Marc:I don't have a problem with that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I never think that I should have kids.
Guest:My father owns five cats now.
Marc:Your father?
Guest:In Japan?
Guest:On his own.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He, in his retirement, now owns five cats.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He likes them, right?
Guest:He likes them.
Guest:He loves cats.
Guest:He's a cat person, too.
Marc:He's in Tokyo still?
Guest:He actually lives in Bali now.
Guest:It's just cheaper to live there.
Guest:A lot of Japanese, like, former workaholics retire in Bali.
Marc:Where they're not going to be pressured anymore?
Guest:No more pressure.
Guest:You're in paradise, and it's very cheap.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you get to go to Bali.
Yeah.
Guest:I get to go to Bali when I see him, yeah.
Guest:And I'll meet the five cats, but it's a recent thing where they just- Showed up.
Guest:Yeah, all it takes, it was like a cat mom had babies under the car's engine.
Guest:Is that how you met your cats?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I met a cat under a car once, a kitten, but I didn't keep that guy.
Marc:That was a long time ago.
Marc:No, these ones, the black one just showed up at my house.
Marc:Someone, I think, lost him when he was very little.
Marc:And the other one, my friend Kit got me.
Marc:She knew somebody.
Marc:I had that from the beginning.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:No sad stories.
Marc:Buster's kind of a sad story, but I got him.
Guest:The showing up at your house thing?
Marc:I used to feed some strays and he just started showing up and he was very little.
Marc:I didn't know where he came from.
Marc:There were no other kittens around.
Marc:My suspicion is that someone had him and he got out.
Marc:Because he was very young and he was already out in the wild and I trapped him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Do you chip them?
Marc:Yeah, they're chipped.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I don't let them outside.
Marc:There's too many fucking coyotes.
Guest:No, it's too much.
Guest:You got to trap them.
Guest:They're yours now.
Marc:Yeah, and I just want to build them in the patio.
Marc:Your house, your rules.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So where did you start building the comedy at?
Guest:Los Angeles.
Guest:I was already here.
Marc:Just doing the mics?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when I started, quote, unquote, hitting it harder.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was just like, yeah, so I was going to mics.
Guest:And then through mics, you know, people see you.
Guest:And then so they book you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I also started my own, not my own, but me with Jenny Yang, who I mentioned earlier, and another comedian.
Guest:We started a tour.
Guest:It was an all Asian, mostly female standup tour.
Guest:The first one ever in the U.S.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, sort of created like a space for ourselves to perform because, you know, not everyone, not everyone can do the passing of the clubs, hanging out.
Guest:It's not.
Guest:True.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's an old time way.
Guest:Yeah, it's this lifestyle that maybe not everyone can do.
Guest:Maybe it's not safe for everyone either.
Guest:Maybe some people are married or have to take care of somebody, like a mother, that they can't do that all night.
Guest:And so you create your own space, and that's what we did.
Guest:And so we started touring.
Marc:What, you each do like 20?
Marc:20?
Guest:Yeah, we all did, like, 20, and then we would have, like, a local comedian as well.
Guest:And it was, like, also a way to showcase, with Jenny Yang mostly, because she's more about that, like, community and, you know, Asian-American.
Guest:She's big in, like, the Asian-American community.
Guest:I sort of tagged along.
Guest:I was, like, the bohemian, like, artsy girl, like, yes, yes, let's do it.
Guest:Like, stage time.
Guest:Let's...
Guest:Build it, whatever.
Guest:Get audiences?
Guest:Yeah, we got audiences, and so we started doing that, and then I can't figure out when it was that it really took off for me.
Guest:I feel like it's just folks seeing me perform around L.A.
Guest:once I was back, and then the Dynasty Typewriters and the Largos, and then...
Guest:Also, comedians doing what I call like the ride back.
Guest:It's what Hasan Minhaj calls the ride back, which is like more established comedians coming back and sort of like scooping people up along the way.
Guest:Margaret Cho, you know.
Marc:Oh, to open.
Guest:Yeah, to open.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or also, you know, sometimes like if they have a show, like at Largo, like Margaret Cho, you know, being like, can you do my show to, you know... Yeah, it just kind of slowly built like that.
Guest:That's like the shorter version or else, you know, it's way longer, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like how a person really... Yeah, but you just sort of did the way, you know, you just did some mics and then you did this...
Marc:the tour with that woman and then you did, I mean I listened to, what was it from a TV show?
Marc:Was it a TV show you did or an episode of a TV show?
Marc:What was the stand-up?
Marc:Because it's also a record too, right?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, my album.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The album.
Marc:There's the album and then there's some other stuff on.
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Guest:That's like some old stuff.
Guest:That's like a bad contract I signed where I can't get out of it.
Guest:And they put it out still.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Guest:That's like from a while ago.
Marc:2018 from They Call Me Stacy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's actually, that was like, I recorded that like 2016, yeah.
Guest:2016?
Guest:Yeah, and then they put that out later.
Marc:Well, it's interesting to hear how you change, because I listen to both of them.
Guest:Yeah, and that is not how I really even want to do comedy.
Guest:The way I talk and that album.
Guest:Oh, and they call me Stacy?
Guest:Yeah, it's so interesting.
Marc:How do you think it's different?
Guest:I just know my voice more and my delivery.
Guest:Economy of words, for example, is different and my delivery is different.
Marc:But also you might not even be quite talking like yourself.
Guest:I'm not talking like myself back then.
Marc:In 2016, right, because you're trying to emulate other comics you see.
Guest:Yeah, I think I was hanging out with more political comedians and I was talking about more political stuff.
Marc:Like who?
Guest:Well, like Jenny Yang, who is more political.
Guest:She's more Asian American.
Guest:She's more social justice.
Guest:And I'm more silly.
Guest:I like the sillies.
Guest:I grew up watching Tig Notaro, for example, once I really got into comedy.
Guest:I love that kind of silly, where you're just kind of unapologetically talking about something dumb sometimes.
Guest:And so, yeah, that's what I...
Guest:lean towards more.
Marc:The new record, But I Control Me, is more pure you.
Guest:A little closer, yeah.
Guest:But I would say that I felt most myself even after that album.
Guest:My latest hour.
Guest:That you're touring now.
Guest:That I'm touring now, that I'm going to shoot as a special.
Marc:For who?
Guest:I can't say yet.
Marc:But it's going to happen.
Guest:Yeah, at the end of the year.
Marc:What's it called?
Guest:Well, this one will be called The Intruder.
Marc:Does it have a theme or is it just, it does?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So during the pandemic, we had an intruder come to our house three times in the same day.
Guest:And that sort of is like the arc, you know, the, yeah.
Guest:It's still all standup jokes.
Guest:I just make sure to finish that story.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Throughout.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:No, I do.
Marc:That's a theme.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you've done a lot of, like you did some writing, you wrote with Jenna.
Yeah.
Guest:I wrote with Jenna, yeah, yeah, for Adult Swim, and then Eric Andre, too.
Marc:You did?
Guest:For Adult Swim.
Guest:So you get it.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I'm not great in a writer's room.
Guest:No?
Guest:I'm definitely more like, I like performing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you must bring something.
Marc:Everyone brings a little something to the writer's room, some ideas or something.
Marc:You just don't like it?
Guest:for sure yeah i think yeah it's hard for me to yeah yeah you know and i think it's okay to be honest about that sure where you know you're like oh it's so many jokes that i just gave away i wish i could maybe use that but yeah i can't now and that's fine you know it's so funny because like those two like on eric andre and jenna friedman
Marc:Yeah, they do a certain thing.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:It's not quite what you do.
Marc:They push it.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah, totally, totally.
Guest:Like a button, you know?
Marc:How far can we take this?
Guest:For sure.
Guest:And I think it's cool.
Guest:I love watching folks thrive in what they do.
Guest:I'm always like, oh, I wish I could be like that.
Guest:But I'm like, you know...
Marc:You're stand-up.
Guest:Yeah, I think three years ago it really hit me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Where I was like, oh, no, I found the silly boys I like being at with stand-up.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Sometimes the key is realizing what you're not, right?
Guest:Sure, of course.
Guest:Finding out who you're not.
Marc:Well, there's part of me that's always going to agree.
Marc:Like, oh, yeah, I'll do that, even if I don't want to do it.
Marc:Uh-huh, yeah.
Marc:And I have to actively tell that guy, like, don't do that.
Marc:You don't have to do it.
Guest:Like you're not, that's not your interest.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:Maybe that'll make it better.
Marc:Maybe I'll be, maybe that's what I should be doing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I still have to tell that guy to, you know, no, we're not doing that.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Which is what, like directing or, you know, stuff like that?
Marc:It's just opportunities, you know, like.
Marc:Because you go through so much of your life in this business where you just want something.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You have somebody offer me something.
Guest:You kind of say yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Because you're like, yeah, I'll do that.
Marc:And I've done a lot of shit that was not right.
Marc:I hosted a fucking game show.
Marc:I remember.
Marc:On VH1 that never took off.
Marc:It never went anywhere.
Marc:And it was like such a gift.
Marc:No one gave a shit.
Marc:And it was the worst.
Guest:Because you were like, I didn't care for it either.
Guest:No, it was the worst.
Marc:And there were all these little jobs, like hosting jobs and things.
Marc:And it's all behind me.
Marc:But there was a period where I knew I didn't want to do them.
Marc:But your manager would be like, you should do it.
Marc:You'll learn this.
Guest:You'll do that.
Marc:But they just want.
Marc:No, for sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then in the last decade or so, I don't have to do anything.
Marc:But there's still part of me that thinks I should.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, 100%.
Guest:And so I always have to remind like fellow friends, you know, and colleagues, like if they get jealous of someone else, like an opportunity, a deadline article, especially if I know them, you know, I have to be like, but you don't want to be an actor, right?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or also is like, is that even a role you could do?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, that's true.
Marc:Would you even be considered for that?
Marc:Jealousy is a weird thing because it's kind of nebulous.
Marc:So anybody who gets success that you have in your head is somebody that you're in competition with.
Marc:You're going to be like, why did they?
Marc:But you have to really deconstruct it for a while to realize, I don't even want to do that.
Guest:Yeah, you don't want to do that.
Guest:That's so not you.
Guest:A, that's not your interest.
Guest:In fact, you would be miserable doing that job.
Marc:It's weird how jealousy works.
Guest:And then C, you're not a redhead girl, what the character asks for.
Marc:But then people are like, yeah, but they don't know what they want yet.
Marc:It's like, yeah, but I know they don't want me.
Marc:I can make that happen.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah, I think it's so important to take the time to realize that.
Marc:To break it down.
Guest:Sometimes you have to realize who you're not.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:And jealousy is just sort of this animated insecurity.
Marc:It's what imagination does to insecurity, is jealousy.
Guest:Yeah, no, for sure.
Guest:And I, you know, I've gone through that, too.
Guest:And that's why I realized, like, oh, no, I don't want to be in a writer's room.
Guest:Like, no, give it to the people who actually want to do it and have been working at it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:So you're just out there doing this hour?
Guest:Oh, my second hour?
Marc:No, but this is your second hour, basically?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:yeah but i feel like i'm most proud of this hour i want to call this of course i want to call this my first hour okay yeah okay because yeah i'm finally doing it right too yeah but you know you did a cd so you don't call it an hour you just recorded some material that you were working on yeah it was like odds go live at a location right and now it's uh you know now this is a this is the first hour hour
Guest:Right, something like that, yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:You know, I have to fail publicly first before I learn stuff.
Marc:You didn't fail, though.
Marc:You're just evolving.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You got laughs on both of those things.
Guest:No, sure, sure.
Guest:But in a different way.
Marc:Yeah, but that's not failing.
Marc:You're coming into yourself.
Marc:You can't look at your past and be like, well, that sucked.
Marc:I mean, you did good for the things that you did.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:No, that means, yeah.
Marc:Because I look at my old shit.
Marc:I mean, it's not who I am now, but I'm like, that did all right.
Guest:No, that's great.
Guest:Whatever meditation you do, that's great.
Guest:Or you know yourself.
Marc:It took me a long time to accept those versions of me, to watch myself on TV.
Marc:But what you said, because I spent so many years thinking, my voice is not, or whatever.
Marc:And I'm watching shit that I did like my first few TV sets in the late 80s.
Marc:I'm watching them like, that sounds like me.
Guest:That sounds like you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was always me.
Marc:What the fuck am I talking about?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, no, that's good.
Guest:It's just, you just know.
Marc:You get bigger, you get more confident.
Guest:You're just with yourself all the time.
Guest:So, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know how you would have rather said it.
Marc:No, I just don't.
Marc:No, it's just I think that I was not honoring something in myself where what was really happening is I wasn't acknowledging that I was.
Guest:Interesting, yeah.
Marc:Do you know?
Guest:Yeah, and maybe you didn't know it at the time.
Guest:Of course not.
Guest:Or you didn't know how to even tap into that yet.
Marc:Yeah, and I just got better.
Marc:You just get better.
Marc:Eventually you get comfortable.
Marc:It sounds like you just got comfortable a few years ago.
Marc:You're just sort of like, this is it, and I feel good.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, it's good talking to you.
Guest:It was great talking to you too, Mark.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Thank you for having me.
Marc:Okay, that was Atsuko Okatsuka.
Marc:She'll be at Largo here in Los Angeles on July 18th for her Atsuko and Friends show along with Fred Armisen and Margaret Cho.
Marc:You can look her up on YouTube.
Marc:You can go listen to her record, though she may not want you to.
Marc:And go to wtfpod.com slash tour for my dates and stuff.
Marc:And, you know, try to carry on somehow.
Marc:I didn't record any music.
Guest:Hold on.
Thank you.
.
.
.
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey LaFonda.
Marc:Cat Angels everywhere.