Episode 133 - Jackie Kashian

Episode 133 • Released December 19, 2010 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:07Guest:Are we doing this?

00:00:08Guest:Really?

00:00:08Guest:Wait for it.

00:00:09Guest:Are we doing this?

00:00:10Guest:Wait for it.

00:00:12Guest:Pow!

00:00:12Guest:What the fuck?

00:00:14Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?

00:00:16Guest:What's wrong with me?

00:00:17Guest:It's time for WTF!

00:00:19Guest:What the fuck?

00:00:20Guest:With Mark Maron.

00:00:24Marc:Let's do this.

00:00:25Marc:Is that how it starts?

00:00:27Marc:Oh my God.

00:00:27Marc:What is wrong with me?

00:00:28Marc:How are you?

00:00:29Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:30Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:31Marc:What the fucking ears?

00:00:31Marc:What the fuck Knicks?

00:00:33Marc:This is Mark Maron.

00:00:34Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:36Marc:Thank you for being here.

00:00:37Marc:I appreciate you being here in, in these times of trials and tribulations that are my life.

00:00:43Marc:God damn it.

00:00:45Marc:Why can't I just be fucking normal?

00:00:48Marc:Why can't I just live a mediocre, easy life?

00:00:52Marc:Why isn't that an option for me?

00:00:55Marc:Why?

00:00:55Marc:Because I'm fucked up inside and I'm not self-pitying.

00:00:59Marc:I'm not whining.

00:01:00Marc:I'm not complaining.

00:01:02Marc:I just realize it now that I've got a new and exciting depth of

00:01:07Marc:A fucked upness that I just never really took responsibility for.

00:01:11Marc:Hey, look, I don't know if you give a shit or I don't know if you you think I'm whining.

00:01:15Marc:I don't know if if you're like, oh, here goes Marin again.

00:01:18Marc:But I do know one thing I am about as honest with you people as I am in my life.

00:01:23Marc:And you guys, you are the people I talk to about stuff.

00:01:28Marc:You and this therapist that's not working out, occasionally Dr. Steve, the friends and people I have coming in here.

00:01:34Marc:Let's do this right now because I don't really know where I'm going with this.

00:01:37Marc:It's the holidays and this is not a good time for me to be crazy.

00:01:42Marc:Pow.

00:01:42Marc:Wow.

00:01:44Marc:I think I shit my pants.

00:01:45Marc:The holiday version.

00:01:47Marc:Yeah.

00:01:47Marc:Go to just coffee dot co-op or WTF pod dot com to the just coffee dot co-op link and get yourself some WTF blend.

00:01:55Marc:That's got me right there on the package and I get a few bucks.

00:01:59Marc:Look, I'm distracted.

00:02:00Marc:Where do I even start with this?

00:02:02Marc:Let's start with this.

00:02:03Marc:Well, let's start with this.

00:02:04Marc:I got a problem with Boomer.

00:02:06Marc:All right.

00:02:06Marc:My cat.

00:02:07Marc:And I think this will come around.

00:02:08Marc:I think that I'll be able to pull this thread this through somehow.

00:02:13Marc:My cat Boomer lives outside for a reason.

00:02:16Marc:Boomer is sort of an asshole.

00:02:17Marc:All right.

00:02:20Marc:What is that?

00:02:22Marc:Someone sawing it's fucking pouring out.

00:02:24Marc:You got to be kidding me.

00:02:26Marc:Dennis is working on his desk and it's fucking pouring out.

00:02:32Marc:That is a level of OCD commitment or avoidance that I, you know, I actually envy because I'm pretty good at distracting myself as well, which will also thread through what I'm about to talk to you about.

00:02:44Marc:So Boomer, needless to say, is an incredible charmer.

00:02:48Marc:God damn it.

00:02:48Marc:Is that noise?

00:02:50Marc:You got to be kidding me.

00:02:53Marc:Hold on.

00:02:54Marc:Yep.

00:02:55Marc:Dennis is out there under his patio with his giant dog.

00:02:58Marc:He's got a giant cone around his neck.

00:03:00Marc:It's in its pouring rain.

00:03:02Marc:It's like some sort of weird, like Cheever esque portrait of suburbia that I don't even want to go into.

00:03:09Marc:Let's go into back to Boomer.

00:03:10Marc:So Boomer's got this problem.

00:03:12Marc:He pisses in the house.

00:03:13Marc:He pisses on shit.

00:03:14Marc:He pisses where you eat.

00:03:16Marc:He pisses on your shoes.

00:03:17Marc:He pisses on your bed.

00:03:18Marc:He pisses on luggage.

00:03:19Marc:He pisses in luggage, okay?

00:03:21Marc:He'll piss anywhere when you're not seeing.

00:03:24Marc:He sprays this shit, all right?

00:03:25Marc:That, and he beats the shit out of La Fonda.

00:03:28Marc:La Fonda, sweet little crazy La Fonda, who is a petite but, you know, powerful cat.

00:03:33Marc:Boomer picks on her.

00:03:34Marc:Picks on Monkey, who can't defend himself, because Monkey's really, you know, at heart, a pussy, pussycat.

00:03:40Marc:So Boomer in the rain gets real charming.

00:03:43Marc:He gets, you know, right outside the door and just like, how, how, how.

00:03:48Marc:And he's got this really throaty, almost like, you know, it's a sad meow.

00:03:53Marc:And but, you know, he's a he's a he's a badass, but he puts on this fucking show.

00:03:58Marc:So I let him in.

00:03:59Marc:And I keep an eye on him.

00:04:00Marc:And I literally think, all right, Boomy, you all right?

00:04:03Marc:And he'll go in, he'll lay down somewhere, and I'll let him sleep there for a little while.

00:04:06Marc:And as he sits there, I start thinking to myself, maybe he's okay now.

00:04:10Marc:Maybe he doesn't pee anymore.

00:04:12Marc:Maybe my shoes will be protected.

00:04:13Marc:Maybe he won't ruin every pair of fucking boots I have.

00:04:16Marc:Maybe he won't pee where I make my coffee.

00:04:19Marc:Maybe that won't happen again.

00:04:21Marc:This is my sickness.

00:04:22Marc:I'm starting to believe it.

00:04:24Marc:And I'm thinking, well, maybe I can leave him in here.

00:04:26Marc:So I brought him in here.

00:04:27Marc:I brought him into the house today.

00:04:29Marc:And what did he do?

00:04:29Marc:He just made a beeline for my bedroom, turned into a wild fucking animal and tried to beat the shit out of La Fonda.

00:04:35Marc:And I had to throw him out.

00:04:37Marc:And it was then I realized, dude, it's not like boomers out there going to meetings.

00:04:42Marc:About how not to pee on shit or how not to beat the shit out of La Fonda.

00:04:46Marc:He's got no program that's going to help him.

00:04:48Marc:He doesn't change.

00:04:50Marc:He's an animal.

00:04:52Marc:He's hardwired to do this shit.

00:04:54Marc:There's nothing you can do to stop it, especially a cat.

00:04:57Marc:So I got to put him back outside and just deal with that.

00:05:02Marc:How over and over again.

00:05:06Marc:Heartbreaking.

00:05:08Marc:But he's not going to change.

00:05:09Marc:And there's nothing I can do about that.

00:05:11Marc:Maybe I'll let him in.

00:05:12Marc:He can take a nap inside.

00:05:14Marc:But then out he goes.

00:05:15Marc:How does this tie into everything else?

00:05:17Marc:Well, I'm I'm a little sad.

00:05:19Marc:My relationship has ended and I wanted it not to end.

00:05:23Marc:But it had to end.

00:05:24Marc:You know why?

00:05:24Marc:Because I've got to take responsibility for some shit that goes up.

00:05:30Marc:I don't even know how to explain this.

00:05:32Marc:But I recently had an experience I really didn't want to have.

00:05:34Marc:I was listening to my act coming out of my mouth and thought in the middle of it, Jesus, why doesn't somebody help this guy out?

00:05:42Marc:Why doesn't somebody help this guy out?

00:05:44Marc:I'm listening to the fucking heartache and the goddamn pain and my own goddamn fucking comedy as it's coming out of my mouth wondering why doesn't he help himself out?

00:05:56Marc:And then I realized, dude, it's you.

00:05:58Marc:You're talking to you and your own fucking body freak show.

00:06:00Marc:Now, I know some of you may accuse me of navel gazing, of perhaps being heady or or overly involved in self-awareness.

00:06:08Marc:But I had this fucking realization.

00:06:10Marc:I look, I have something.

00:06:15Marc:It's a P-S-D-E-E-D.

00:06:20Marc:Let me explain to you what that is.

00:06:22Marc:I am cursed with a P-S-D-E-E-D.

00:06:27Marc:Now, I've decided that my parents are an emotional terrorist organization.

00:06:34Marc:And what they have done involuntarily, though that doesn't let them off the hook completely, is that inside of my chest, there is strapped a perpetual self-detonating emotional explosive device.

00:06:48Marc:That is my heart.

00:06:49Marc:That is how I have a perpetual self-detonating emotional explosive device in my chest.

00:06:57Marc:It's strapped in there.

00:06:58Marc:It's held in by muscle and a rib cage.

00:07:00Marc:It was it was wired by my parents.

00:07:03Marc:And look, I'm not blaming them.

00:07:04Marc:I'm not anything else.

00:07:05Marc:But at a certain point, how many relationships can I get into where I blow up?

00:07:12Marc:As soon as someone gets close to me, I am an emotional suicide bomber.

00:07:16Marc:I'm just designed to explode out of a tremendous fear of intimacy and a lot of other shit that I've just never dealt with.

00:07:23Marc:And then if I'm alone, which I am now, I'm sad.

00:07:27Marc:I look at my life and I think, what the fuck happened?

00:07:31Marc:And then I try to distract myself like Dennis next door.

00:07:35Marc:I should be out in the rain sawing something, but I do it differently.

00:07:38Marc:I cook.

00:07:39Marc:I play guitar.

00:07:40Marc:I take a bunch of nicotine lozenges.

00:07:42Marc:I smoke cigars.

00:07:43Marc:I shove shit into my face.

00:07:45Marc:I jerk off.

00:07:46Marc:I do anything.

00:07:48Marc:I do anything.

00:07:49Marc:I drive around.

00:07:49Marc:I run ridiculous errands.

00:07:52Marc:I've gotten very committed to figuring out how to grind my coffee properly by going down to the Vaughn supermarket, using their grinder, by sneaking in a bag.

00:08:00Marc:you know, of my coffee, putting it in their coffee grinder that I've and I've ground it too fine, no less than three times to make espresso with.

00:08:08Marc:But I see this as a life mission.

00:08:09Marc:What is that all about?

00:08:10Marc:Is it really about coffee?

00:08:12Marc:Is it really about cooking really well?

00:08:15Marc:Or is it just me not being able to sit with my fucking sad ass self for 10 minutes without going into some sort of tailspin of sadness and loneliness and self-reflection, morbid self-reflection?

00:08:28Marc:God damn it.

00:08:30Marc:When does this shit stop?

00:08:32Marc:So now I've got to deal with this shit?

00:08:35Marc:Don't you ever wonder?

00:08:36Marc:Don't you ever ask yourself, why didn't Mark have any kids?

00:08:40Marc:How come Mark couldn't stay married twice?

00:08:42Marc:Well, I'll tell you why.

00:08:43Marc:Because I have a perpetual, self-detonating, emotionally explosive device strapped inside my fucking chest.

00:08:50Marc:And until I figure out how to fucking disarm it and live like a goddamn adult, it's always going to repeat itself.

00:09:01Marc:So I've begun some training on how to disarm the bomb in my chest.

00:09:11Marc:It's going to take some vigilance.

00:09:13Marc:I know I'm being vague about certain things, but that's out of respect.

00:09:18Marc:for other people involved, and because I'm not sure how to really address anything right now other than I've got to take responsibility for this thing inside of my chest before it hurts anybody else or continues hurting me.

00:09:35Marc:And I'm trying to focus, trying to focus.

00:09:38Marc:I'm trying to focus with the intensity of Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible.

00:09:43Marc:Time is running out.

00:09:44Marc:There's sweat on my brow.

00:09:46Marc:And I have to disarm the bomb in my chest.

00:09:53Marc:I don't know how long it's going to take.

00:09:56Marc:God damn, man.

00:09:59Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:10:00Marc:By the way, Merry Christmas.

00:10:01Marc:This is going to be the last show before the Christmas break because this Thursday we're doing the live from UCB, which is a good show.

00:10:07Marc:We got Bill Cosby, Bill Cosby, Bukowski, Aaron Foley, Eddie Pepitone, Jim Earl and Dr. Steve.

00:10:16Marc:I bring Dr. Steve in to do an intervention on Eddie and his anger problem.

00:10:20Marc:And then we get it gets pretty real, pretty wild.

00:10:22Marc:And also, mind you, I may be reaching out to Dr. Steve to process some of this stuff, this core issue shit that I'm talking about.

00:10:29Marc:This kind of stuff doesn't interest you.

00:10:31Marc:I understand that if you just, you know, if you pull yourself up by your bootstraps kind of guy.

00:10:36Marc:Or kind of gal who was like, you know, I quit wine and quit this, quit that.

00:10:40Marc:You know, this isn't funny.

00:10:41Marc:You know, I get it.

00:10:42Marc:But fuck you.

00:10:43Marc:I got to deal with this shit.

00:10:44Marc:I'm going to do it this way and I'm going to do it as as respectfully as possible.

00:10:49Marc:And we'll see what happens.

00:10:50Marc:I mean, obviously, I'm not going to it's not going to turn into a fucking therapy program.

00:10:54Marc:I mean, that would be crazy.

00:10:55Marc:Me doing a program that's basically therapy for me.

00:10:58Marc:I mean, that is ridiculous.

00:10:59Marc:I mean, would I let that happen?

00:11:02Marc:Wow.

00:11:03Marc:But anyways, Merry Christmas.

00:11:05Marc:And please be grateful for what you have and try to be as loving as possible to those around you.

00:11:13Marc:And I hope you get a nice present or two.

00:11:16Marc:Now let's talk to Jackie Cation.

00:11:18Marc:Jackie Cation is one of my favorite comedians.

00:11:21Marc:She is a comedian.

00:11:24Marc:She is a woman that I have a completely appropriate relationship with.

00:11:28Marc:And I'm very excited to talk to her.

00:11:31Marc:And she's from the Midwest.

00:11:33Marc:All of that is just makes for what I think is a wonderful conversation.

00:11:39Marc:Happy holidays.

00:11:44Marc:Right now in the garage at the Cat Ranch is Jackie Cation.

00:11:48Marc:Hello, Marc Maron.

00:11:49Marc:What kind of name is Cation?

00:11:51Guest:It's Armenian.

00:11:52Marc:Really?

00:11:52Marc:Yes.

00:11:53Marc:Both your parents?

00:11:54Guest:No, no, just my dad.

00:11:55Guest:My mom, an Irish-Norwegian blend.

00:11:58Marc:Wow.

00:11:59Guest:My father went outside the fold so he could have kids without hip dysplasia.

00:12:04Marc:And that's sort of, I imagine, in the Armenian community, as big a no-no as a Jew or anybody else going.

00:12:11Guest:You know what the Armenian word for goyim is?

00:12:13Marc:What?

00:12:13Guest:Odar.

00:12:14Marc:Odar?

00:12:14Marc:Odar.

00:12:15Marc:That sounds like a villain in a science fiction movie.

00:12:17Guest:It is a villain in a science fiction movie.

00:12:19Guest:And your mom was one.

00:12:20Guest:You know it, and she was never approved of by my grandmother.

00:12:25Marc:But you have this whole Midwestern thing.

00:12:28Marc:You're like a real, where is it, Wisconsin?

00:12:30Guest:Yeah, Wisconsin, outside of Milwaukee.

00:12:32Guest:A little factory town outside of Milwaukee called South Milwaukee.

00:12:35Marc:And was your mom like one of the original sort of Norwegian, you know?

00:12:39Guest:She was more Irish than Norwegian.

00:12:42Guest:But both of her parents were immigrants too.

00:12:44Guest:Like both of my dad's parents were immigrants.

00:12:46Guest:And then both of my mom's parents were immigrants.

00:12:48Marc:But your mom's parents there, was she part of the original kind of like settlers of Wisconsin?

00:12:52Marc:Wasn't Wisconsin sort of settled by Swedes and Nordic folks?

00:12:56Guest:Yes, by a genuine northern European white folk, but not in my case because, well, here's the thing.

00:13:03Guest:We never really knew them because my mother died when I was seven.

00:13:06Guest:I didn't kill her.

00:13:07Guest:It's not my fault.

00:13:08Guest:We're very proud, though, because she died on a Harley Davidson.

00:13:10Marc:Did she really?

00:13:11Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:13:12Guest:I'm from Milwaukee.

00:13:12Guest:Could you imagine if the neighbors, if she had been killed on a Kawasaki?

00:13:15Marc:I thought you said she died in childbirth when you were seven.

00:13:18Marc:It took a long time.

00:13:19Guest:Oh, she bred.

00:13:20Guest:She was breeding.

00:13:21Guest:She was Irish Catholic.

00:13:22Marc:How many sisters and bros do you have?

00:13:25Guest:I have four brothers and a sister.

00:13:26Guest:Youngest of six.

00:13:27Guest:Holy shit.

00:13:28Guest:Yeah, that sounds painful, doesn't it?

00:13:30Marc:Yeah, it sounds painful.

00:13:31Guest:I would have died, too, at 33, just to get out.

00:13:33Marc:She died in a motorcycle accident?

00:13:35Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:13:36Guest:It was dumb.

00:13:37Guest:It was drunk driving.

00:13:38Marc:She was drunk?

00:13:39Guest:She was drunk.

00:13:40Guest:Her boyfriend was drunk.

00:13:41Guest:My parents were separated at the time.

00:13:43Guest:And horrible, horrible.

00:13:45Guest:Hi, listeners.

00:13:46Guest:Yeah.

00:13:47Guest:Welcome.

00:13:48Guest:Harley Davidson, Harold, and my mom, Ann, flipped off the overpass, fell onto the highway below, and were run over by cars.

00:13:55Marc:All right.

00:13:57Marc:And welcome to the show.

00:13:58Marc:Ladies and gentlemen.

00:13:59Marc:Jackie Cajun is here sharing some wonderful, quaint Midwestern stories about her family.

00:14:04Guest:Right off the bat.

00:14:05Guest:Let's cut open a vein.

00:14:06Marc:Let's do it.

00:14:07Marc:Oh, my God.

00:14:08Guest:Now, did you... You inspire it, though.

00:14:11Guest:You inspire... I always say this about you.

00:14:15Guest:I'm like...

00:14:15Guest:The thing about Mark is that you have him on and he's just like, I'm going to cut a vein.

00:14:18Guest:Do you want to join me?

00:14:19Marc:We're open.

00:14:19Marc:Yes.

00:14:20Marc:Everything's open.

00:14:20Marc:We're all bleeding here.

00:14:21Marc:We're talking.

00:14:22Marc:Did you find that, I mean, how did it affect your life as you grow old?

00:14:27Marc:Do you find you have issues that are directly related to that?

00:14:29Guest:You know what?

00:14:30Guest:I don't think I do, or if I do, my father did because my father was gone.

00:14:34Guest:Yeah.

00:14:35Guest:And then he remarried almost immediately.

00:14:37Guest:because that took all the kids yeah because he he saw none of us for like he saw my youngest brother oh that's a point of contention uh in the three years that they were they were separated three or four years that they were separated uh-huh um he only saw my brother uh russ the golden child the child that has done no wrong and is it still has that it is it is held to this day yeah he lived up to golden child status and they the two of them hang out like old women that is so rare usually the golden child story is like he was the chosen one then they fuck it all up

00:15:07Guest:Well, my oldest brother used to be the golden child, my brother Terry, and then he fucked it all up.

00:15:11Marc:Oh, shit.

00:15:11Marc:And he dropped the ball.

00:15:13Marc:Oh, shit.

00:15:14Marc:So now it's just you and me.

00:15:17Guest:Well, the thing is, I'm more of a hub.

00:15:19Guest:Anybody will talk to me.

00:15:20Guest:I'm like, tell Jackie.

00:15:23Guest:Dump it on Jackie.

00:15:24Guest:Dump it on Jackie.

00:15:24Guest:See if Jackie knows Dad's cell phone number.

00:15:27Guest:See if Jackie knows.

00:15:28Guest:Our stepmother's name is Nancy.

00:15:29Guest:And they're like, no one wants to talk to Nancy, but everyone wants to know how she is.

00:15:34Marc:Right.

00:15:35Guest:How is Nancy?

00:15:36Marc:Oh, she's fine.

00:15:37Marc:And you're the only one?

00:15:38Marc:I'm the only one.

00:15:38Marc:You're the conduit to Nancy?

00:15:40Marc:Yeah.

00:15:41Marc:Okay.

00:15:41Guest:Russ has tried to be the conduit to Nancy, but Nancy, for some reason, rejecting it.

00:15:45Guest:I think it's because he has children, and she never wanted children.

00:15:48Guest:And yet she married my father when she was 27 years old.

00:15:51Guest:And he had six.

00:15:52Guest:And he had six, ages 7 to 17.

00:15:54Marc:Holy shit.

00:15:55Guest:Yeah.

00:15:55Marc:And she held through?

00:15:56Marc:I mean, do any of your sibs have a good relationship with her?

00:16:00Guest:No, no, just me.

00:16:01Guest:And mine is barely.

00:16:02Guest:Really?

00:16:03Guest:Yeah.

00:16:03Guest:And they're still married?

00:16:05Guest:No, they're divorced.

00:16:07Marc:Complicated.

00:16:07Guest:Right, very complicated, because my father almost immediately started having affairs.

00:16:11Marc:After he married her?

00:16:12Marc:Yeah.

00:16:13Marc:This is good stuff.

00:16:14Marc:Right?

00:16:14Guest:It seems like we haven't... My father is, in many ways, a bad person.

00:16:19Guest:Uh-huh.

00:16:19Guest:Has made some terrible choices for the woman who chose to raise his children for him.

00:16:24Guest:He has decided to screw around on her, and...

00:16:27Guest:Yeah.

00:16:27Guest:And you guys, did you all turn out relatively all right?

00:16:30Guest:That's the miracle.

00:16:31Guest:That is the freak... I have tried to write about this.

00:16:34Guest:I have tried to do stuff, and I can't figure out what it is.

00:16:37Guest:I can't figure out why we did, because I have... There are people in South Milwaukee, Wisconsin, a factory town in Wisconsin, that have almost the same story, and they...

00:16:47Guest:So wake and bake, live in Cudahy and work.

00:16:51Guest:This woman, Karen Baldwin, who I went to high school with, works as an administrative assistant at the school system, lives across the hall from her mom.

00:16:59Guest:They both rent apartments.

00:17:00Guest:I mean, it's like the saddest thing.

00:17:02Guest:Wisconsin, parts of Wisconsin can be very sad.

00:17:05Guest:There was a woman that I, my last friend from high school, I will tell you this, is he, Paul Burridge, his mom, I went to a New Year's Eve party in college.

00:17:17Guest:The first year I came back from college, my parents were like, do you want to go to the church New Year's Eve party?

00:17:20Guest:And I said, yes, I do.

00:17:21Guest:So I went to Racine, Wisconsin, to the Armenian church, and where I got super drunk and made out with Tim Tarosian, a man I am no doubt related to.

00:17:29Wow.

00:17:30Guest:And my father, by the way, got me to win the lottery, got me to win one of the raffle prizes.

00:17:36Marc:He fixed it at the church raffle?

00:17:38Guest:He fixed it at the church raffle to get me out of the closet with Tim Tarosian.

00:17:41Guest:And so the following year, he's like, do you want to come to this party again?

00:17:45Guest:And I was like, no, no, no, I think it'd be wise if I don't.

00:17:47Guest:And so I go with Paul Burridge to his parents' house.

00:17:51Guest:And I don't see it.

00:17:52Guest:And it had a lovely time.

00:17:53Guest:A sober, lovely Wisconsin frugal, frugal moment where we all sat around and watched It's a Wonderful Life.

00:17:59Guest:Who knows?

00:18:00Guest:But three years later, I run into Mrs. Burridge at the Kohl's.

00:18:03Guest:And I say, oh, I had a lovely time.

00:18:05Guest:The last time I saw you was at the New Year's Eve party.

00:18:07Guest:I came to your house.

00:18:07Guest:And she goes...

00:18:08Guest:Oh, that was three.

00:18:09Guest:What year was that?

00:18:10Guest:That was the year we had the shrimp ring.

00:18:13Guest:Shrimp ring, right?

00:18:14Guest:Ring of shrimp with cocktail sauce.

00:18:16Guest:$11.99 over at the Albertsons.

00:18:17Guest:Yeah.

00:18:19Guest:And I was like, you deserve a shrimp ring every week.

00:18:22Guest:You should have a night of dinner where you yourself just get a shrimp ring, Mrs. Burridge.

00:18:27Guest:I almost burst into tears.

00:18:29Guest:That was the high point.

00:18:30Guest:That was the high point.

00:18:31Marc:That was the marker.

00:18:32Guest:Right.

00:18:32Guest:Treat yourself to a freaking shrimp ring.

00:18:34Marc:Oh, my God.

00:18:35Marc:You should have one delivered every month.

00:18:37Guest:but you shrimp ring a month there's got to be a website where you can get a shrimp ring a month club god the shrimp ring a month club i want that to be real well it's so it's all so sweet that everybody turned out all right there's no tragedy i know well there was you know my oldest brother is an evangelist with his own church and almost no one talks to us talks to him except me again uh and i have a hard time talking to him did he come to christianity later in life or

00:19:01Guest:Well, you know, he was troubled.

00:19:02Guest:He was the troubled youth.

00:19:04Guest:He was the one.

00:19:05Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:06Guest:Like crime and hitting and a lot of that sort of thing.

00:19:10Guest:So he didn't turn out so good.

00:19:11Marc:He didn't.

00:19:11Marc:He just found Jesus.

00:19:12Guest:And that's why he lost the much coveted golden child.

00:19:16Guest:Oh, shit.

00:19:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:19:18Guest:And so he found the Jesus when he was about 19 and tried to go to seminary school in Florida and then decided that, no, he knew it.

00:19:27Guest:And he's a bossy, bossy man, so of course he knew it.

00:19:30Guest:And he quit his own church like four years ago.

00:19:32Guest:He had had this church for like 20, 25 years, right?

00:19:34Guest:He built a flock?

00:19:35Guest:He built a flock.

00:19:36Guest:How big?

00:19:36Guest:250, 300 people.

00:19:40Guest:Enough that he had to have a day job kind of thing.

00:19:42Marc:Oh, really?

00:19:42Marc:Yeah.

00:19:42Marc:He wasn't making a living off the flock.

00:19:44Guest:But he has four kids himself.

00:19:46Guest:He took them for two weeks to Disney World.

00:19:49Guest:I guess that's tens of thousands of dollars.

00:19:52Marc:Okay.

00:19:52Marc:So the flock helped out a little.

00:19:53Marc:Right.

00:19:53Guest:I think that there was some skimming off the term.

00:19:56Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:59Guest:But he quit his own church a couple years ago, and now he's back.

00:20:03Marc:What do you do with a flock when you quit a church?

00:20:05Marc:Do you say that, like, I'm done, I'm sorry?

00:20:07Guest:You pass the baton to somebody.

00:20:08Marc:Yeah, you say you're sorry.

00:20:10Guest:But the hall was in the back of his house.

00:20:13Right.

00:20:13Guest:so some of the guys some other guys preaching to his watch television and he's watching television and trying to sort of get it together and and uh the speculation the reason he quit in the family is because of the glass ceiling there was just the one job left and they weren't uh willing to worship him oh really yeah that's yeah because uh he thinks he is the lord he wanted he wanted to make the transition into actual cult leader yes and they wouldn't have it

00:20:37Guest:exactly right right there was no yeah there was no actual cult leader and then my second oldest brother was in the moonies and we had to kidnap and deprogram him get the fuck out of here I know this is not the golden child no no this is oh my god Phil is such he was such a stoner fuck up when he was a kid so you got the oldest one who was a problem child and now he's a and he's an evangelist he's an evangelist trying to cross over into cult leader status right and then the next one down next one down was a stoner and he was a moonie

00:21:02Guest:Right.

00:21:03Guest:He was a Mooney and we had to kidnap and deprogram him.

00:21:05Guest:We saw it on the Phil Donahue show.

00:21:06Guest:This all happened in the 70s.

00:21:07Marc:How old were you?

00:21:08Guest:I think I must have been 10.

00:21:10Marc:So who did the kidnapping?

00:21:12Marc:How'd that work?

00:21:12Guest:Well, you hire out.

00:21:13Guest:This will fascinate you, Marc Maron, because when they deprogram you, what they do is they reprogram you.

00:21:19Guest:They keep you in a room.

00:21:21Guest:And they just keep talking to you.

00:21:23Guest:Moon isn't the Messiah.

00:21:24Marc:They show pictures of Reverend Moon and they scratch it.

00:21:27Marc:Exactly.

00:21:27Marc:They just kick him.

00:21:28Marc:Bad man.

00:21:29Guest:They hit him with their shoe.

00:21:30Guest:And, you know, whatever.

00:21:32Guest:But all your favorite foods are there.

00:21:34Guest:But they sleep deprive you.

00:21:35Guest:I mean, it's like, it's almost, they might as well waterboard you.

00:21:38Guest:But they essentially talk you into, by the end of it, I guess Phil folded it like five days and just said, fine.

00:21:44Marc:I don't like him anymore.

00:21:45Guest:I don't like him anymore.

00:21:46Guest:I'll go to sleep now.

00:21:47Guest:It's exactly...

00:21:48Guest:But the weird thing is, is they reprogram everybody to be Christians.

00:21:53Marc:Oh, so the service is actually a Christian reach out service, outreach service.

00:21:56Guest:If you want to make your kid back into like a Muslim or a Jew, you have to pay extra.

00:22:01Marc:Oh, but so they got to bring a special guy in.

00:22:02Guest:Because they got to bring in a specialist.

00:22:03Marc:The Jew costs a little more money.

00:22:04Marc:Yeah, exactly.

00:22:05Yeah.

00:22:06Marc:And the Muslim guy barely works.

00:22:08Marc:Right, that guy.

00:22:09Guest:That guy.

00:22:10Guest:No shit.

00:22:11Guest:No shit.

00:22:11Guest:So what's that guy doing now, your brother?

00:22:13Guest:So he's a total atheist right now, unless you count the Lord of the Rings, which I do.

00:22:18Guest:Because he's just gone completely into science fiction fantasy land is what he does.

00:22:21Guest:And he sells printing for a living.

00:22:23Guest:How old is he?

00:22:23Guest:He's got to be 50.

00:22:25Guest:Really?

00:22:25Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:22:26Marc:He sells printing?

00:22:27Marc:What does that mean?

00:22:27Guest:He deforests entire nations.

00:22:31Guest:He sells like flyers and crap that you get in the mail.

00:22:34Marc:He has a printing business.

00:22:35Guest:Well, no, he's a print salesman.

00:22:37Guest:So, like, if you want to get something printed... Oh, oh.

00:22:40Guest:Like, if GE has their yearly report... And he'll mail it for you?

00:22:44Guest:Yeah.

00:22:44Guest:Like, he works for a company that'll staple and mail it and print it.

00:22:48Marc:Okay.

00:22:48Marc:So, that's the golden child, and then we got Phil, and then we moved down.

00:22:51Guest:We got Phil's the Mooney, and then Scott, always just kind of a jackass.

00:22:55Guest:Yeah.

00:22:55Guest:He...

00:22:57Guest:Epileptic.

00:22:59Guest:Didn't talk to him for like 15 years.

00:23:01Guest:Really?

00:23:02Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:23:02Guest:He was a hitter.

00:23:03Guest:He used to hit the shit out of me.

00:23:04Guest:And then guess what?

00:23:05Guest:I said, stop hitting me.

00:23:06Guest:Yeah.

00:23:07Guest:And then I stopped.

00:23:07Guest:I stopped talking to him.

00:23:09Guest:And you know what happens when I stop talking to you?

00:23:12Guest:That's it.

00:23:13Guest:There's been some trouble because I'll talk to almost anyone.

00:23:15Marc:Right.

00:23:15Guest:It turns out I will still talk to my father.

00:23:17Guest:So, yeah.

00:23:19Guest:But he's a commodities broker in Chicago.

00:23:22Marc:So he got out.

00:23:23Marc:He got out.

00:23:24Marc:Went for the golden ring.

00:23:25Guest:Right, right.

00:23:25Guest:Went for the Golden Ring.

00:23:26Guest:Has a giant bag of money.

00:23:27Guest:Has a doorstop.

00:23:28Guest:And is a perfectly nice man now.

00:23:30Marc:And you get along with him.

00:23:30Guest:And I get along with him.

00:23:31Guest:And my sister re-hooked it.

00:23:33Guest:She said, I'm sick of not knowing where the hell Scott is.

00:23:36Marc:Yeah.

00:23:36Guest:And went on the internet.

00:23:37Guest:Took about seven minutes to find him.

00:23:39Guest:And called him up and he was like, huh.

00:23:43Guest:After how long?

00:23:44Guest:15, 20 years.

00:23:45Marc:Holy shit.

00:23:45Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:23:46Guest:Long time.

00:23:47Marc:Long time.

00:23:47Marc:Okay, so that's Scott.

00:23:48Marc:And then we go down another one.

00:23:49Guest:Yep.

00:23:50Guest:And then there's Russ, the golden child, who's an econ professor at the University of Wisconsin, but not Madison.

00:23:55Guest:Whitewater.

00:23:57Guest:Anyway.

00:23:57Marc:And did you consult him about the current economic situation?

00:24:02Guest:Oh, he's very conservative.

00:24:03Guest:He's very conservative.

00:24:04Guest:You know, he hates Krugman.

00:24:05Marc:Yeah, Paul Krugman.

00:24:07Guest:Paul Krugman, sure.

00:24:08Guest:You know, he he calls himself the he high economist because he does.

00:24:11Guest:He mostly does rural the effects of like farm rural Wisconsin econ.

00:24:18Marc:Yeah.

00:24:18Guest:And he's he's testified before Congress and about what farming about farming and econ.

00:24:23Guest:And yeah, I don't even know.

00:24:24Marc:So your dad loves him still?

00:24:26Guest:Oh, my dad, they're on board.

00:24:28Marc:They're on board.

00:24:28Marc:So then we got moved from him?

00:24:30Guest:To my sister, who is a lesbian.

00:24:32Guest:And I out her only because if you were to Google her, she's gay, it turns out.

00:24:38Marc:You Google her name and it just says lesbian?

00:24:40Guest:Yeah, it just says Darla Cache and lesbian.

00:24:42Guest:Well, she's on like gay rights things.

00:24:44Guest:Oh, okay.

00:24:45Guest:She's a commodity.

00:24:46Guest:She's the people who help you invest in stuff.

00:24:50Guest:Right.

00:24:51Guest:Personal finance.

00:24:52Guest:Okay.

00:24:52Guest:She works at RBC, Dane Rauscher.

00:24:54Guest:Okay.

00:24:55Marc:She's a, yeah, like your broker.

00:24:58Marc:Yeah, she's a broker of some sort.

00:24:59Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:00Guest:But she does like socially responsible investing.

00:25:04Guest:Maybe I'll call her.

00:25:05Guest:Yeah, if you need a lady.

00:25:07Marc:She's into the green industries.

00:25:08Guest:Green industries.

00:25:09Guest:And she's willing to go...

00:25:12Guest:possibility of green just to make you some money so as opposed to my brother scott who's like you want to invest on an oil well on indian land i'm your go-to you you you uh you interested in a leaky oil well on the ocean floor we have those yes we have those and you will make money how about shirts made by children excellent these shoes were made by toddlers they're tiny hands it's very nice and then then we go to you or one more sister that's me just and then me

00:25:38Guest:So stand-up comedy, huh?

00:25:40Marc:Why wouldn't I?

00:25:40Marc:What else are you going to do?

00:25:41Guest:And it's hilarious because when I came home and I told my stepmother that I was doing stand-up comedy, she said, you're not the funny one.

00:25:47Marc:Russ is.

00:25:48Marc:You know why?

00:25:49Guest:And I was like, how does Russ get to be everything?

00:25:51Guest:Russ gets to be the smart one.

00:25:52Guest:He gets to be the successful one.

00:25:53Marc:And you said what?

00:25:54Marc:Fuck you.

00:25:55Guest:I said, screw you.

00:25:56Marc:This is my first joke.

00:25:57Marc:We just wrote it.

00:25:59Marc:We wrote it together.

00:26:00Marc:Yeah, you and me.

00:26:01Marc:Now, how long have you been fucking doing it?

00:26:05Marc:I mean, it's been a long time.

00:26:06Marc:You're like the real deal.

00:26:07Guest:Yeah.

00:26:08Marc:I mean, how long?

00:26:10Guest:I started in 86, and then I got a 1.8 that semester, and then I started again in 90.

00:26:17Marc:And you dropped out of school?

00:26:18Marc:No.

00:26:18Marc:Oh, you stayed in.

00:26:20Guest:It was Kinison.

00:26:21Guest:Remember Kinison?

00:26:22Guest:Sure.

00:26:22Guest:It was Sam Kinison's brother, Bill, owned the club that I started that in the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

00:26:27Guest:In Madison, Wisconsin, Bill Kinison owned the club.

00:26:29Marc:Nice guy, huh?

00:26:30Yeah.

00:26:30Marc:Yeah.

00:26:32Marc:I had no idea he owned a club.

00:26:34Marc:So you started in 86 and that's when I started.

00:26:36Marc:Are you my age?

00:26:37Marc:I think so.

00:26:38Marc:I'm 47.

00:26:38Marc:45.

00:26:40Marc:Shit.

00:26:40Marc:We've been doing it the same amount of time.

00:26:42Marc:I remember you when you were younger.

00:26:44Guest:Right.

00:26:45Guest:Right.

00:26:45Guest:97.

00:26:45Guest:I think I met you at Aspen.

00:26:47Marc:96, 97?

00:26:48Marc:Right.

00:26:48Marc:The one of the first, maybe that would have been like the second or third.

00:26:51Guest:The second year of Aspen.

00:26:52Marc:Right.

00:26:53Marc:And there was a big crunch on like who's got the pot that year.

00:26:56Marc:I think that's a game we played.

00:26:57Marc:That's a fun game.

00:26:58Marc:Where are people smoking pot?

00:27:00Guest:You know what I wanted?

00:27:01Guest:Oxygen.

00:27:02Guest:I freaking hate that town.

00:27:04Guest:It was the dumbest.

00:27:06Guest:That Aspen, Colorado is the dumbest town full of fur families I've ever seen in my life.

00:27:10Marc:I was there for what's left of whatever.

00:27:12Marc:I went there for a festival and off-season.

00:27:14Marc:The Rooftop Festival.

00:27:15Marc:Oh, Rooftop Festival.

00:27:16Marc:You still can't breathe.

00:27:16Marc:Still can't breathe.

00:27:17Marc:It doesn't matter what season it is.

00:27:18Guest:I'm supposed to go twice next year.

00:27:20Guest:Why?

00:27:20Guest:For Rooftop and for this other sort of like, it's like a MaxFunCon almost, but it's just run by comics.

00:27:27Marc:It's horrible because you're there for like three days.

00:27:29Marc:You spend two not being able to breathe and possibly with diarrhea and shortness.

00:27:32Guest:And trying to drink all the water in the world that doesn't help.

00:27:35Marc:And your speech is fucked up.

00:27:38Marc:Right.

00:27:38Marc:Like you can't get your timing right.

00:27:39Marc:Right.

00:27:39Guest:You can't get your time.

00:27:41Guest:Oh, and that was the first time I'd ever had like a real showcase in front of everybody.

00:27:44Guest:At least a line game.

00:27:45Marc:Yeah.

00:27:46Guest:Booked me to do that gig.

00:27:47Marc:Lisa Langang, who is now at Comedy Central, who was then at God knows where.

00:27:49Marc:She's been everywhere.

00:27:50Marc:She's been everywhere.

00:27:51Marc:Originally the booker for the San Francisco Improv.

00:27:54Guest:I'm surprised she wasn't seating people at some point.

00:27:56Marc:I'm sure she was.

00:27:57Marc:Some of them are like that.

00:27:58Marc:They're club managers like Dave Becky, my old manager.

00:28:00Marc:He ran a club.

00:28:01Marc:He was a club manager for the Improv.

00:28:02Guest:Over at Down Irvine or something, right?

00:28:04Marc:Yeah.

00:28:04Marc:Chris Albrecht, who was head of HBO, was also a club.

00:28:07Guest:Messina used to book one-nighters in Long Island.

00:28:09Guest:Rick Messina, my old club manager.

00:28:10Marc:He had a club that Judd Apatow's mom was the hostess at.

00:28:14Marc:What?

00:28:15What?

00:28:15Marc:That's how Judd Apatow got into comedy.

00:28:18Marc:If you listen to that podcast, I believe it was Rick Messina had an actual club on the island where Judd lived.

00:28:25Marc:And after his parents got divorced, his mom was a hostess there.

00:28:28Marc:And he used to wash dishes at Rick Messina's club.

00:28:31Guest:Do you know what that rivals?

00:28:32Marc:What?

00:28:32Guest:That rivals the Malcolm X autobiography.

00:28:36Marc:It's the same thing.

00:28:37Marc:Both of them leaders of people.

00:28:38Guest:Leaders of people, Rick Messina and Malcolm X. But my favorite part of that, I don't know why this has come into my mind, but one of my favorite parts of Malcolm X's life was he was a busboy with Red Fox.

00:28:50Marc:Red Fox, that's right.

00:28:50Guest:Yeah, in Harlem.

00:28:51Guest:Yeah.

00:28:52Marc:How awesome is that?

00:28:53Marc:It could have went either way for Malcolm.

00:28:55Marc:I would have loved if he would have done stand-up.

00:28:58Marc:If Red had been less funny, who knows who would have stepped up on stage.

00:29:02Marc:Exactly.

00:29:03Marc:Oh, my God.

00:29:04Marc:That would have changed history.

00:29:05Marc:If Red Foxx were a civil rights leader.

00:29:09Marc:What are you looking at?

00:29:10Marc:Yeah.

00:29:11Marc:Y'all got to go down and march on something.

00:29:13Guest:Torch that.

00:29:14Guest:Torch it.

00:29:15Guest:I can't do voices.

00:29:17Guest:By any mean necessary.

00:29:19Guest:By any mean.

00:29:20Marc:Yes.

00:29:21Marc:Because he never enunciates.

00:29:22Marc:Someone must have done that.

00:29:23Marc:Some black comic has had to tap that vein.

00:29:26Marc:I hope so.

00:29:26Guest:You realize that there's like 10,000 comics in the world?

00:29:29Marc:I don't want to think about it.

00:29:30Guest:And there's a podcast out there called Green Room Radio, right?

00:29:35Marc:Yeah.

00:29:35Guest:That the guy only interviews serious road dogs.

00:29:39Marc:Right.

00:29:39Guest:Like, he'll interview anybody.

00:29:40Guest:He would interview you.

00:29:42Marc:Where is this?

00:29:43Guest:He's out of Denver.

00:29:44Marc:I don't know why I haven't heard from him.

00:29:45Marc:I've never done Denver.

00:29:46Marc:I can't seem to get work at the Comedy Works.

00:29:49Guest:Comedy Works.

00:29:49Guest:They sent me to the open mic line.

00:29:51Marc:Oh, they did?

00:29:51Marc:When I called up.

00:29:52Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:29:52Marc:Recently?

00:29:53Guest:About a year ago.

00:29:54Marc:No.

00:29:54Guest:Yep.

00:29:55Guest:They were like, well, let me hook you up where you can leave your avails.

00:29:58Marc:Really?

00:29:58Guest:Yeah.

00:29:59Marc:And did you have management call?

00:30:00Guest:No, no, I didn't have Melanie Collins.

00:30:03Marc:That's unbelievable.

00:30:03Guest:Right.

00:30:04Guest:But Kathleen Madigan had just talked to Wendy, who's the woman who books it, and said when she opened that second club.

00:30:10Guest:And Madigan cracks me up just because... She's like the...

00:30:17Marc:in some ways the original modern uh woman comic somehow because she's been out there and doing this for a long time she's got a strong fan base and she does the work she's a fucking road act yeah yeah she's a road act and but yet it's not it's not hacky and i she had me i never met her i didn't meet her until i did last comic

00:30:37Guest:And people were like, you've never met Kathleen Madigan?

00:30:39Guest:And I was like, I know.

00:30:40Guest:I don't know.

00:30:41Guest:I don't want to tell you.

00:30:42Guest:But she was like, tell me you're making a good living at this.

00:30:44Guest:And I was like, no, no.

00:30:46Guest:And she said, well, you should.

00:30:49Guest:And I said, well, if there's anything you can do about that, knock yourself out.

00:30:52Guest:And so she called, like, Wendy and she called Robert Hartman.

00:30:55Guest:She called all these people and were like, you have these rooms where you just need good headliners.

00:31:00Guest:Yeah.

00:31:00Guest:And I am a good headliner.

00:31:02Guest:Yeah.

00:31:03Guest:People love...

00:31:04Guest:The magic of Jackie Cation for 45 to an hour.

00:31:07Guest:I certainly do.

00:31:07Guest:Yeah.

00:31:08Guest:Yeah.

00:31:08Guest:My long set is as good as anybody's, quite honestly.

00:31:11Guest:I mean, it isn't... Whatever.

00:31:13Guest:I'm not even going to go there.

00:31:14Guest:Because why go there?

00:31:15Marc:Right?

00:31:15Marc:Just say thank you very much.

00:31:16Marc:Who are you about to compare yourself to?

00:31:17Guest:Oh, my God.

00:31:18Guest:Bamford.

00:31:19Marc:Oh, really?

00:31:19Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:31:20Guest:Maria.

00:31:20Guest:I was like, it isn't genius, but it's better than average, I would say.

00:31:24Guest:I'd say I'm as good as anybody.

00:31:26Marc:But the weird thing about, you know, when you draw the...

00:31:28Marc:oranges and fucking apricots that's right i mean the thing about comedy is that you know the one thing you do have is your own voice you have your own experience have your own style you've paid your dues so i mean why why can't and i even go there but of course i have to right but the funny thing is is that you know i know we all do but you know bamford yeah in in a certain situation could not do what you do and i've heard a story from maria and maybe you ought to tell me the other side of that story that philadelphia that uh pennsylvania thing

00:31:56Marc:Where she went and she said that, you know, the way she framed it was that, like, she felt bad because they were expecting something else.

00:32:04Marc:What happened?

00:32:05Guest:Okay.

00:32:06Guest:So, first of all, I heard that she told that story.

00:32:08Guest:And it's true.

00:32:10Guest:Here's what happened.

00:32:11Guest:We went to Erie, Pennsylvania.

00:32:14Guest:And we show up.

00:32:14Guest:I think it's, like, a Tuesday through Saturday.

00:32:17Guest:Yeah.

00:32:18Guest:And the shows start at like 7.30 or 7 o'clock at night.

00:32:22Guest:The shows start too early.

00:32:23Guest:He just decided that year that he was going to bring in New Blood because he had had the same 12 comics or 50 comics from New York City that he had had for the last 12 years.

00:32:33Guest:Right.

00:32:33Guest:And so he decided, like he brought in Bill Dwyer and Maria and Doug and...

00:32:37Guest:Graham Elwood and I mean he brought in like all these people that were different right and uh the audience was in shock to some extent because they were with well with Maria but I think with all of them I hear Bill did a good job but um yeah Dwyer he's a little more mainstream right right he's he's a little more you know golden retriever of stand-up comedy which uh you know everybody wants to and he'll go get that laugh he'll run after it he will run after that

00:33:02Guest:That's exactly what the golden retriever of stand-up comedy would do, which is I believe myself as well.

00:33:07Guest:But so she would have trouble.

00:33:10Guest:She would have trouble each night.

00:33:12Guest:And she went to the vault, man.

00:33:14Guest:She did material that was 12 years old.

00:33:16Guest:She tried to go to the audience.

00:33:18Guest:She'd worked her ass off for six shows.

00:33:21Guest:Yeah.

00:33:22Guest:And the third night, I think the club owner comes up to me.

00:33:25Guest:He's like...

00:33:26Guest:we're getting some people that aren't, that are kind of walking, that aren't that psyched with the show.

00:33:31Guest:And I said, yeah.

00:33:33Guest:He said, I've decided not to tell Maria.

00:33:34Guest:And I was like, yeah, she's not made of stone.

00:33:36Guest:I think she knows.

00:33:37Guest:Because a couple of shows, she didn't even come out to sell stuff.

00:33:41Guest:She was like, no, no, not a chance.

00:33:43Guest:And so by Friday night,

00:33:45Guest:It's, you know, it's getting better.

00:33:48Guest:It's getting better.

00:33:48Guest:And then weekend, people drove.

00:33:50Guest:People drove like an hour and a half to come see the show.

00:33:52Guest:So it was fine.

00:33:53Guest:So Saturday, first show, the wife shows up, the club owner's wife, who is the other owner.

00:33:58Guest:Right.

00:33:58Guest:And first show Saturday, Maria has some trouble because I think it started at like, what, 4.30, 5 in the afternoon?

00:34:03Guest:It started like...

00:34:04Marc:Like old people.

00:34:05Marc:Things close down at 930 in Erie, Pennsylvania.

00:34:07Marc:Oh, man, they do.

00:34:08Marc:You might have them get in and out.

00:34:09Guest:In and out.

00:34:10Guest:Yeah.

00:34:10Guest:And so she goes up.

00:34:12Guest:I guess she went up to Marie.

00:34:13Guest:And I wasn't there for this.

00:34:14Guest:But she goes up to Marie and is like, hey, you know, I thought your material would be a lot different from what we saw the tape.

00:34:21Guest:Things aren't going well, I hear, this week.

00:34:24Guest:And just laid it on super thick.

00:34:26Guest:And Maria was just like, okay, well, why don't I not?

00:34:31Guest:Jackie can close the second show.

00:34:32Guest:That'll be fine.

00:34:33Guest:And the woman's like, what?

00:34:34Guest:Wait a minute, wait a minute.

00:34:35Guest:Backpedal, backpedal.

00:34:36Guest:And you're like, no, no, you broke it.

00:34:38Guest:You broke it.

00:34:38Guest:Fuck you.

00:34:39Guest:Yeah.

00:34:39Guest:And so Maria comes up to me.

00:34:40Guest:She's like, will you please close the second show?

00:34:42Guest:And I was like, oh, my God, Maria, you should just close.

00:34:45Guest:And she said, I'll pay you extra.

00:34:47Guest:And I was like, you don't have to pay me extra, but whatever.

00:34:49Guest:But the thing is, it's like,

00:34:51Guest:And yeah, the guy was doing fine.

00:34:55Guest:Maria was not going to come back unless she was a bigger deal and she could fill the room by herself without grandma and grandpa sitting there.

00:35:03Guest:And then the woman comes up to me and she's like, so do you even have that kind of time?

00:35:10Marc:After she decides to let you close.

00:35:12Guest:Yeah.

00:35:13Guest:And I was like, you're not good at this at all.

00:35:17Guest:Because there's no filter.

00:35:20Guest:There's no fucking filter in my face sometimes.

00:35:22Guest:I'm just like, and I said that.

00:35:26Guest:When was the last time?

00:35:27Guest:I just had the thing the other day where a booker asked me if I would emcee

00:35:32Guest:This this room as a favor for a week for like five hundred dollars, no air.

00:35:38Guest:And I was like, guess what?

00:35:40Guest:I'd rather wash your car as a favor.

00:35:43Marc:Holy shit.

00:35:43Guest:What's the favor?

00:35:44Guest:There's no favor.

00:35:45Guest:And no weird.

00:35:47Marc:Yeah, but what we're coming around to in that conversation is that, you know, I mean, there are some comics that started out in a different world of comedy.

00:36:00Marc:I mean, you and I started out doing clubs, so you know how to play for anybody.

00:36:03Guest:Right.

00:36:04Guest:I can indeed play for anybody.

00:36:06Guest:If there's an Indian casino, it's a sports bar.

00:36:08Marc:Yeah, I mean, I've done it, and I know that I can.

00:36:11Marc:There's still part of me that, like, even though I'm getting more people who are coming to see me to come, but I still, like, I don't exactly want everyone to be there to see me necessarily because the challenge of having a common language with just people that don't know who I am, I still like that, but it backfires on me sometimes.

00:36:31Marc:Right.

00:36:31Guest:You know, for the first time ever, and it only happened in one show, I did that comedy attic.

00:36:34Guest:You're going there, right?

00:36:35Marc:Yeah, I like it.

00:36:36Marc:Yeah.

00:36:36Guest:Nice, nice, beautiful little room.

00:36:38Marc:He's a very excited guy, that guy.

00:36:39Guest:And he's an excited young man and psyched.

00:36:41Guest:Yeah.

00:36:42Guest:And has what I consider the right attitude.

00:36:44Marc:Yeah, and Baby's always in the green room.

00:36:46Marc:Was the Baby in the green room when you were there?

00:36:47Marc:Baby was in the green room.

00:36:48Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:36:48Guest:But previously, the only other time I played it, Baby, still in the oven.

00:36:51Guest:Yeah.

00:36:52Guest:So, also in the green room.

00:36:53Guest:Yeah.

00:36:54Guest:But the...

00:36:55Guest:First show, first show on the Thursday night, which I think is just the student show.

00:36:59Marc:Right.

00:37:00Guest:Yeah.

00:37:00Marc:Usually a good show, though.

00:37:01Guest:It was a great show.

00:37:03Guest:And so I go into what is my new closing bit, which is that animal bit that I did.

00:37:07Guest:The animated thing.

00:37:09Guest:Did you see the cartoon of my animal?

00:37:11Guest:Get a new cat.

00:37:12Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:37:13Guest:Whatever.

00:37:14Guest:So everyone in the audience had seen it.

00:37:17Guest:And I was like, I was thrown.

00:37:19Guest:And there were two people in the audience at two different tables.

00:37:25Guest:So there were at least like four or five people who had listened to both of my albums a lot.

00:37:30Guest:And I was like, how do you deal with that?

00:37:31Guest:I don't you deal with that.

00:37:33Guest:You have people have your albums.

00:37:35Guest:They know where you're coming from.

00:37:36Marc:That's in the history of.

00:37:37Marc:Well, that's the trick of their expectation, especially because of the internet.

00:37:42Marc:Before, you put an album out, maybe in a year, your fans would eventually get around to getting the album.

00:37:48Marc:But now, the day before you get there, they can go online and see everything you've ever done.

00:37:54Guest:Listen to it all.

00:37:55Guest:And then they're like, what else are you going to talk about?

00:37:57Marc:It's like, are we machines?

00:38:00Marc:Like sometimes like I'll go on stage and literally like I'll know when I get to the town, like I better have an experience.

00:38:08Guest:Janine told me that one time when she walked up to Old Largo and she said, I had to go buy a CD today just to have something to talk about.

00:38:15Marc:Right.

00:38:15Marc:But I'm glad I have the confidence enough to try to do that.

00:38:18Guest:Yeah.

00:38:19Marc:But at least to make it fresh.

00:38:20Marc:But now, you know, when I talk about stuff and as we talk on the podcast and stuff like my life is so open.

00:38:27Guest:I only have four stories any given week.

00:38:30Guest:Right.

00:38:30Marc:So story.

00:38:30Marc:But I mean, did you find that the people were disappointed or were you just hard on yourself or what?

00:38:34Guest:They were not as... I was super... They're happy to see you.

00:38:38Guest:Yeah, they're psyched.

00:38:38Guest:And the guy told me, he said... Well, in the beginning, one of the guys came up to me and said, Yeah, I've been listening to your albums just over and over.

00:38:44Guest:They're so great.

00:38:45Guest:And I was like, Well, prepare to hear it on Shuffle.

00:38:48Guest:Because that's exactly what's about to occur to you.

00:38:51Guest:And so I just looked at the guy and I was like...

00:38:53Guest:Tell some weird story you've never told.

00:38:55Guest:Right.

00:38:55Guest:And so I did.

00:38:56Guest:And that helped.

00:38:57Guest:And it worked out.

00:38:58Guest:And at the end of it, he said, well, I'm coming back on Saturday, but you should know I want to hear those old stories.

00:39:03Guest:Those old stories are great.

00:39:04Marc:And I was like, okay, all right, good, good.

00:39:06Marc:Yeah.

00:39:06Marc:And that makes you feel a little better.

00:39:08Guest:Yeah.

00:39:08Marc:Because we're hard on ourselves.

00:39:09Guest:Right.

00:39:10Guest:And what about the quality problem of having people come that actually know your shit?

00:39:14Guest:Yeah.

00:39:14Guest:You're just like that is a that is a that's a good problem to have if things are working out.

00:39:18Marc:Well, that's why sometimes when I go out and I know that you're, you know, quick enough on your feet and have enough comfort up there that if I get into a conversation with an audience member or if or if like I just start on something and they're encouraging about it, I'll fucking do it all the way there.

00:39:32Marc:Yeah.

00:39:33Marc:What the hell?

00:39:34Marc:And then it ends up being the best part of the show.

00:39:36Marc:Yeah.

00:39:36Marc:Like sometimes I'll walk off like, the only thing that I really loved about that show is when I dropped my water.

00:39:42Guest:Right, right.

00:39:42Marc:Because something really happened.

00:39:44Guest:Something really happened.

00:39:45Marc:Yeah.

00:39:46Marc:Something new.

00:39:46Guest:Yeah.

00:39:46Marc:And then something develops.

00:39:47Marc:Like I went to the Creation Museum in Cincinnati.

00:39:50Marc:And like that night I got up there and I'm like, I was alive.

00:39:53Marc:And then if you do 10 minutes just off the top of your head, it almost like it throws blood into the rest of it.

00:39:59Marc:Like all of a sudden it's like the heart at the core of the act.

00:40:03Guest:Everything is alive.

00:40:04Marc:Everything's alive.

00:40:05Guest:That's great.

00:40:06Guest:Yeah.

00:40:06Marc:You have that, right?

00:40:07Guest:I have that.

00:40:08Guest:I totally have that.

00:40:09Guest:It's so hard.

00:40:13Guest:People say, well, what's it like to do the same show every night?

00:40:16Guest:And you're like, well, I love those jokes.

00:40:18Guest:Right.

00:40:19Guest:But if I never tell the vagina t-shirt joke again, we all win.

00:40:22Guest:Right.

00:40:23Guest:It's on tape.

00:40:23Guest:Right.

00:40:23Marc:And then the other thing is, though, like as we go along in our careers, like more people come along.

00:40:28Guest:Yeah.

00:40:28Marc:And they don't know that.

00:40:29Guest:They don't know that one.

00:40:30Guest:And they love it.

00:40:31Guest:That's right.

00:40:31Guest:Yeah.

00:40:32Guest:And it's like that's why it's a great joke.

00:40:33Guest:And it's a great joke.

00:40:34Guest:And there's not broken.

00:40:35Guest:And everyone does.

00:40:37Guest:And I saw Bill Cosby like a year and a half ago.

00:40:39Guest:He closed on that dentist thing.

00:40:41Guest:Right.

00:40:41Guest:It was like, but it was, you know, he did it on purpose.

00:40:44Guest:You know, he said, I'm not going to come back out.

00:40:45Guest:There's not really an encore.

00:40:46Guest:I'm just going to do this last joke.

00:40:48Guest:Right.

00:40:48Guest:And because he's 72.

00:40:50Guest:Right.

00:40:50Guest:And so, oh, my God, the previous time I saw him was at the Orange County Fair.

00:40:56Marc:When was that?

00:40:57Guest:Three years ago.

00:40:58Marc:So you've seen him twice?

00:40:59Guest:I've seen him twice.

00:41:00Guest:It was ridiculous because Andy, my husband, he was like, hey, I got a present for you.

00:41:04Guest:It was in the summer for my birthday.

00:41:06Guest:He was like, hey, I got a present for you.

00:41:07Guest:And we drive to the Orange County Fair.

00:41:09Guest:And I'm like, oh, I love a weird fair.

00:41:11Guest:This will be awesome.

00:41:12Guest:And he's like, we're going to see Bill Cosby.

00:41:14Guest:And I was like, we're going to see comedy on my birthday.

00:41:16Guest:Comedy.

00:41:17Guest:oh okay and he's like no no we're going to see bill cosby and i was like yeah okay and and he was right because it was i mean it was work i mean i got to i learned just sat there he he dug a hole for himself he did for like 20 minutes he dug a hole jumped into it ate dirt and then climbed out of it like nothing i i just watched about a month ago i watched bill cosby himself okay

00:41:40Marc:which for what seemed like the first time for me i've never seen it and it it changed my approach i mean this is like two months ago really it changed my approach because i watched him and i realized that you know he's so comfortable at that time it must have been the early 80s and you know he's just talking really obviously it's how he does it right but it what i learned from it is like you you

00:42:04Marc:If you want to wait for a laugh, just do it.

00:42:08Marc:Just sit there.

00:42:09Marc:That's the hardest thing in the world for me.

00:42:12Marc:It's like you have control of this situation.

00:42:15Marc:If you believe that that laugh is there, don't rush to it.

00:42:20Guest:Wait for it.

00:42:21Marc:Yeah.

00:42:22Marc:And then I tried it a couple of times.

00:42:23Marc:And I remember the first time I did, I'm like, all right, I'm going to take my time with this.

00:42:27Marc:And I dropped it.

00:42:28Marc:Nothing.

00:42:29Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck happened?

00:42:30Marc:Because how do we trust our instincts?

00:42:32Marc:Because I think some of us are so, you know, like we're like, we're defensive.

00:42:35Marc:Like we're worried that the laugh isn't going to come.

00:42:37Marc:So we're rushing to it.

00:42:38Marc:And then it's like, ah, and there it is.

00:42:40Marc:Right.

00:42:41Marc:But, but if we really trust our instincts, why do we have to be so panicky about it?

00:42:46Marc:Right.

00:42:46Marc:And that's what I learned from that.

00:42:48Marc:You know Stuart Lee, right, from the UK?

00:42:49Marc:I interviewed him.

00:42:50Guest:Yeah, he's one of my favorite comics.

00:42:51Marc:Great.

00:42:52Marc:Talk about waiting.

00:42:53Guest:Oh, my God.

00:42:54Guest:Nobody celebrates a silence like that dude.

00:42:56Guest:He can just sit there.

00:42:57Guest:I saw him.

00:42:58Guest:We were in Perth together in Australia.

00:42:59Marc:But he's also very smart.

00:43:01Marc:So smart.

00:43:02Marc:And in complete control of his timing.

00:43:05Marc:Yeah.

00:43:06Marc:But I don't, like, sometimes, like, you know, with, but he's also, like, I did an interview with him.

00:43:11Marc:You should listen to it because it's pretty fascinating.

00:43:12Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:43:13Guest:I've been meaning to.

00:43:13Marc:I just, I just met him and, and, and, and someone turned me on to him.

00:43:17Marc:Hari Kondabolu, a young comic.

00:43:19Guest:Yeah.

00:43:20Guest:That's how he came up to me.

00:43:21Guest:He's like, you love Stuart Lee.

00:43:22Guest:And I was like, I do.

00:43:23Marc:He loves Stuart Lee.

00:43:24Marc:And he loves Stuart Lee.

00:43:25Marc:And he got me into him, but he really is a special act.

00:43:28Marc:And I also learned that from him too, that, that it's not about, it's not about a turn of phrase.

00:43:33Marc:It's not about like even surprise.

00:43:36Marc:It's really about your confidence in your own fucking delivery.

00:43:39Guest:Yeah.

00:43:40Guest:Yeah.

00:43:40Guest:He's just... It's just... And to get back to Bill Cosby is that he is... What I loved mostly about seeing him both times.

00:43:48Guest:Yeah.

00:43:48Guest:And he repeated one joke from the previous two years.

00:43:51Guest:Right.

00:43:51Guest:In the hour and a half, besides the Dennis thing.

00:43:54Guest:Right.

00:43:55Guest:But what I loved about him was that he's been doing stand-up comedy for 45 years.

00:44:01Guest:He's still... And not to belittle it, but also to just sort of state it.

00:44:04Guest:He's just doing stand-up comedy.

00:44:06Guest:Right.

00:44:06Guest:He's not...

00:44:07Guest:You know, he's a genius.

00:44:09Guest:Everybody's on board.

00:44:10Guest:But he's doing the same thing he was doing 40 years ago, which is telling the story of what happened this year.

00:44:16Guest:Right.

00:44:16Guest:And that was what I learned from him.

00:44:19Guest:I was like, oh, my God, you don't really change.

00:44:21Guest:You just...

00:44:22Guest:I mean, you just keep doing what you the kind of stand up.

00:44:26Marc:And I think that's true.

00:44:28Marc:And it's also the type of stand up that you and I do is that we're drawing from our own experience.

00:44:32Marc:We're telling stories.

00:44:33Marc:You know, we are invested in it emotionally.

00:44:36Marc:Right.

00:44:36Marc:You know, we don't have any distance because we're not creating one liners.

00:44:39Marc:Right.

00:44:40Marc:So, you know, it's really the pressure is on you.

00:44:42Marc:And what what happens, I think, is that.

00:44:45Marc:Like, I can't, like, sit down and say, I got to write 20 minutes.

00:44:49Marc:You know, unless I have to do a TV show or there's a topic or a theme, I can do that.

00:44:53Guest:Right.

00:44:53Marc:But with my own stuff, like, I've got to be pushed to the edge of, like, I fucking hate myself.

00:44:58Marc:I hate my fucking act.

00:45:00Marc:I don't know what to do.

00:45:00Marc:And then I'll get up on stage going, all right, yesterday.

00:45:03Marc:And then all of a sudden, like, I'm in it.

00:45:05Marc:Right.

00:45:05Marc:And then I'm like, okay, I'm going to hold on to that.

00:45:07Guest:Right, right.

00:45:08Guest:That's the best thing about it.

00:45:09Guest:And the thing, the greatest thing about the podcast.

00:45:10Marc:I have no idea where my joke comes from.

00:45:12Marc:Do you?

00:45:12Guest:Yeah.

00:45:12Guest:No.

00:45:13Guest:Well, I don't – I know that it's usually – like lately it's been coming from a lot of fury.

00:45:18Guest:And just like – I'm just like I'm mad about something.

00:45:22Guest:God knows.

00:45:22Guest:Right.

00:45:23Guest:Like I'm mad about those dragon tattoo books.

00:45:25Guest:Right.

00:45:25Guest:Because for two weeks, seriously, after reading those books, all I could think of was every sexual slight that had ever happened to me or anyone I knew.

00:45:33Guest:Because the implication of that and of Nancy Grace and of Court TV and of SVU Law and Order –

00:45:39Guest:is that 98% of the men on this planet want to diddle small children and rape them.

00:45:44Guest:And guess what?

00:45:45Guest:They don't.

00:45:46Guest:I'm willing to take and just as arbitrarily say that even if it's a bad person, a bad guy, he would help.

00:45:52Guest:Yeah.

00:45:53Guest:Yeah.

00:45:53Guest:98% of even the dirtbags in the world wouldn't let that go.

00:45:56Guest:Right.

00:45:57Guest:And I know that because of how many times have I or anybody else out there walked into a terrible – made a terrible life choice essentially.

00:46:07Guest:Yeah.

00:46:07Guest:Followed some dude because he has weed or booze or something and you followed him into the dark.

00:46:14Guest:Yeah.

00:46:14Guest:And then you weren't killed.

00:46:15Guest:Yeah.

00:46:16Guest:And you weren't killed because most guys are just like, well, I hope she fucks me.

00:46:20Guest:Yeah.

00:46:20Guest:But –

00:46:20Guest:Oh, no.

00:46:22Guest:Oh, we'll see you later.

00:46:23Guest:Yeah.

00:46:23Guest:And that's it.

00:46:24Guest:I mean, that's the whole.

00:46:25Guest:Right.

00:46:25Guest:Maybe that maybe at the worst.

00:46:27Guest:It's just like asshole.

00:46:29Guest:Yeah.

00:46:29Guest:And, you know, you're just I mean, there isn't much more.

00:46:31Guest:So I think that there's definitely comedy there.

00:46:33Marc:You know, I think in that that world of like, you know, when anybody when everybody is so fucking, you know, everyone's fucked.

00:46:41Marc:Everyone's evil.

00:46:42Marc:Everyone's this.

00:46:42Marc:Is that like what keeps civilization together is the idea that I think is reality that most people are good.

00:46:49Marc:Right.

00:46:50Marc:They're morally dubious mentally.

00:46:52Marc:Sure.

00:46:52Guest:Plenty.

00:46:52Guest:Yeah.

00:46:54Marc:Everyone's got shit going on in their head.

00:46:55Guest:And encouraged is another one.

00:46:57Marc:Sure.

00:46:57Marc:But civilization functions because most people know on a basic level that they shouldn't do that.

00:47:04Guest:I'm more John Locke than Mr. Hobbes.

00:47:07Marc:I must say.

00:47:08Marc:Yeah.

00:47:09Marc:Well, I think experience indicates that that's probably true.

00:47:12Guest:I think so, in my experience.

00:47:14Marc:So now, well, getting back around to that idea that when we do do the jokes, that when you aren't dealing with a crowd that everyone knows you.

00:47:23Guest:Right.

00:47:23Marc:Obviously, the expectation is to constantly generate new stuff.

00:47:25Marc:But when you're where you and I are at, where you're going to go to a club and there's going to be maybe a quarter of the room is just there for something comedy.

00:47:34Marc:Right, comedy, whatever that is.

00:47:35Marc:That they're fucking thrilled that your old jokes, that's the thing about, like, recently someone said, do a joke, and they asked me to do a joke that I hadn't done in years.

00:47:43Marc:Right.

00:47:43Marc:But it's a memorable joke.

00:47:44Marc:And it's a good joke.

00:47:45Marc:Yeah, and it killed, and I was like, wow, that's sort of interesting.

00:47:48Marc:Let's dust that off.

00:47:49Marc:It's like, let's see if the car still starts up.

00:47:51Marc:You know?

00:47:52Guest:Yeah, I always call it, whenever I'm in a show, you know, and this is more jackassery, is the fact that I'm in a show where too many people are trying stuff.

00:48:02Marc:Yeah.

00:48:02Guest:And it's not going.

00:48:03Guest:Right.

00:48:03Marc:right and you feel like you have to like i'm gonna put on a show i'm gonna actually these people actually paid i'm gonna go to the vault and i'm gonna uh like do some of the old stuff and you know i mean and there's a trick to it you do that you open with the old you close with the old and you work on the stuff in the middle that's right it's fine yeah there you know you can't like that's the one thing about comedy now is that you know people will go out and do you know professional shows and they're like you're doing the notebook

00:48:27Guest:Right.

00:48:28Marc:And they don't have anything to necessarily bookend it with.

00:48:30Marc:There is no vault.

00:48:31Marc:The vault is pretty empty.

00:48:33Guest:They're building the vault as they're as they're going along.

00:48:35Guest:And their talent, you know, I mean, they can be very talented and very funny people.

00:48:39Guest:But but to be that new and and, you know, and you run into these these people that are like, well, I have 40 minutes.

00:48:47Guest:Do you do you have 40 minutes?

00:48:49Guest:That's all of it.

00:48:50Guest:Right.

00:48:50Guest:That's every dime.

00:48:51Guest:Yeah.

00:48:52Guest:Every dime in your savings account.

00:48:53Marc:Isn't that weird to be where we're at now and to know that, like, you know, we've got a couple hours under our belt and that it's all there.

00:48:59Marc:There's stuff on my first CD that I did twice.

00:49:02Guest:Right.

00:49:03Guest:Well, that's yeah, that's it.

00:49:04Guest:I mean, I think on my second CD, I had a bonus section called Bits Nobody's Ever Enjoyed.

00:49:09Marc:Yeah.

00:49:09Guest:Except me.

00:49:10Guest:And just knock yourselves out.

00:49:12Marc:And so, you know, you did a separate track.

00:49:16Yeah.

00:49:16Guest:Well, it was just like one of those.

00:49:17Guest:I don't really understand the bonus track situation where I'm just like, it's just more comedy.

00:49:23Guest:We're just going to let you have some of that.

00:49:24Marc:I had a record producer.

00:49:25Marc:He said, like, I like to hide a track.

00:49:27Guest:Oh, right.

00:49:28Marc:Like, there's a secret track.

00:49:29Guest:You've got to play it backwards.

00:49:30Guest:And I'm like, don't.

00:49:32Guest:Why are you going to?

00:49:33Guest:But I'm not trying to hide my jokes.

00:49:35Marc:It's just for me.

00:49:36Marc:I'm like, all right.

00:49:37Marc:Do whatever you want.

00:49:38Marc:I don't really know if my third CD has something hidden on it.

00:49:41Marc:I have no idea.

00:49:42Marc:I was not informed.

00:49:43Marc:You were not let in on it.

00:49:45Marc:Which Last Comic Standing were you on?

00:49:47Guest:I was on 2006 and 2008.

00:49:48Guest:Two?

00:49:48Guest:Yeah, I was on two.

00:49:51Marc:And what's the highest you got?

00:49:53Guest:Both times made it to the semifinals.

00:49:54Guest:NBC never wanted to go in a Jackie Cajun direction.

00:49:57Guest:So we had to call it semifinals.

00:50:00Marc:Did you find that that got you new people?

00:50:03Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:50:03Guest:More people have seen the crazy four-minute sets I've done on Last Comic Standing than they've seen my half-hour special on Comedy Central.

00:50:10Marc:Yeah, my first half hour I did not like.

00:50:13Marc:And now everything's available.

00:50:14Marc:And there's certain things where I wish would just go away.

00:50:17Guest:Just go away.

00:50:19Guest:I mean, are you on rooftop comedy?

00:50:21Marc:Yeah, a bit, I think.

00:50:22Marc:Because I did their festival, so they pulled things.

00:50:24Guest:Oh, it cracks me up, the whole rooftop thing.

00:50:26Guest:And I've talked to them about it, and they fixed a bunch of it.

00:50:28Guest:Because for a little while, they were airing everything.

00:50:32Guest:And I was like, hi, that joke's not done.

00:50:37Guest:Everyone doesn't need to... Where did they get it?

00:50:39Guest:Well, like, you know, because you play different... I was in Atlanta at The Laughing Skull.

00:50:42Guest:Oh, and they have that.

00:50:43Guest:And then I'm at Acme, and they have the players in the clubs.

00:50:47Marc:You should be working everywhere.

00:50:48Guest:I know what I should be.

00:50:50Guest:Because you know what?

00:50:51Guest:Because the thing... It's like...

00:50:53Guest:You know, like I don't have a PA agent.

00:50:55Guest:Do you have a PA person?

00:50:56Marc:I just got one.

00:50:57Guest:Yeah.

00:50:58Guest:I've had a couple in the past.

00:50:59Marc:Yeah.

00:50:59Guest:And they just they never get me anything any more than I get myself.

00:51:02Marc:Yeah.

00:51:03Guest:So it's always kind of moot.

00:51:04Guest:But it's fine.

00:51:06Guest:And but it's it's there should be.

00:51:09Guest:the fact that I'm willing to go places and people don't, and people always, always have fun.

00:51:14Guest:Yeah.

00:51:14Guest:I swear to God.

00:51:15Marc:Yeah.

00:51:15Guest:I mean, I'm not tooting my own horn.

00:51:16Marc:Yeah.

00:51:17Guest:People always have a good time.

00:51:18Guest:Yeah.

00:51:18Guest:So, uh, so everybody in your towns and, uh, and, and villages, feel free to call.

00:51:24Marc:Good for a good time.

00:51:25Guest:Good for a good time.

00:51:25Guest:Why don't you call your comedy club up there?

00:51:27Guest:Mark Ridley.

00:51:28Guest:Hmm.

00:51:28Guest:Anybody?

00:51:29Guest:Comedy castle.

00:51:30Guest:And, uh,

00:51:31Marc:Yeah, it's so fucking crazy.

00:51:33Marc:But also rooftop, you told them to reel it in.

00:51:35Guest:Yeah, I was just like, guys.

00:51:37Guest:And so that joke isn't, you know, just call it.

00:51:39Guest:You don't have to show every 32 second bit that you think is kind of funny and has potential.

00:51:44Marc:Yeah, they got something up on Hulu that I have no fucking idea what it is.

00:51:48Marc:It was before I got sober.

00:51:49Marc:It was from the Chicago Comedy Fest.

00:51:50Marc:I've been up for three days and it's a 10 minute set at Zany's.

00:51:54Marc:And I was like, out of everything.

00:51:56Marc:And Hulu is one of those well-traveled sites.

00:51:58Marc:I mean, people go to that.

00:51:59Marc:And I'm like, how the fuck is that up there?

00:52:02Marc:Right.

00:52:03Marc:What did you sign?

00:52:05Marc:I don't even remember the weekend.

00:52:06Guest:Yeah.

00:52:07Marc:Like, you know, I was smoking on stage.

00:52:09Marc:Right.

00:52:09Marc:I'd been doing blow for two days.

00:52:11Guest:Man.

00:52:11Marc:And, you know, it's not a horrible set, but I'm like, why that one?

00:52:15Marc:I'm sweaty.

00:52:16Marc:Right.

00:52:17Marc:Frank Caliendo is hosting before he's anybody.

00:52:19Guest:Wow.

00:52:20Marc:And I'm like, how did that get out there?

00:52:23Guest:Man.

00:52:24Marc:Whatever.

00:52:24Guest:It's brutal.

00:52:26Marc:Let's talk about your back.

00:52:28Guest:Let's.

00:52:29Marc:So before we had a change of time because your body work person was coming.

00:52:32Guest:I get body work done.

00:52:34Guest:That's right.

00:52:35Guest:And yeah, no, I'm just I'm a big fan of the hippie, you know, the hippie medicine.

00:52:40Guest:I'm willing to rattle the bones and look at the moon.

00:52:42Marc:I mean, body work is less hippie than, you know, than other.

00:52:46Guest:Like I have a chiropractor and I have an acupuncturist and I don't have a general practitioner.

00:52:51Marc:What is your problem?

00:52:52Guest:What is my problem?

00:52:54Marc:I mean, why do you need the – you've got a back issue?

00:52:57Guest:Well, yeah.

00:52:58Guest:One of my legs is – like one's higher than the other.

00:53:03Guest:Like one side of my pelvis is higher than the other.

00:53:05Guest:Too much info.

00:53:07Guest:That's all right.

00:53:08Guest:But there's a lot of beeswax.

00:53:09Marc:Oh, because of that lifetime of walking wrong.

00:53:11Guest:Right, I walk wrong, and so I have this weird low back or hip issues, and as we get older, it's just going to be, I could fall down, I could have hip dysplasia.

00:53:21Guest:Yeah.

00:53:21Guest:It's whatever, that wouldn't be hip dysplasia.

00:53:23Guest:But the, yeah, so I've been going, like about 15 years ago, I got rolfed.

00:53:28Guest:Yeah.

00:53:28Guest:And rolfing is that thing where they take all your muscles off the bones and knead it like bread and let your bones sort of reset.

00:53:35Guest:Yeah.

00:53:35Guest:So it's sort of like shaking your skeleton out so that everything, you know, like you have a better posture.

00:53:40Guest:Did it work?

00:53:41Guest:It really did.

00:53:41Guest:It worked for like five, six years.

00:53:43Marc:Huh.

00:53:44Guest:And it was a grand because you get 10 different sessions or something like that.

00:53:47Marc:Oh, so a grand for 10.

00:53:48Guest:For 10 sessions.

00:53:49Guest:Yeah.

00:53:49Marc:It was like 100 bucks a session.

00:53:50Marc:And there's an institute or...

00:53:51Guest:Yeah, Ida Rolfe is the woman's name, and it's in Denver or Colorado like that.

00:53:56Marc:You went there?

00:53:57Guest:I didn't.

00:53:58Guest:There was a... Franchise or something?

00:54:00Guest:Well, some guy had been trained there.

00:54:02Guest:He was dreamy, too.

00:54:03Guest:It was quite awkward.

00:54:04Guest:Uh-huh.

00:54:05Guest:Because, you know, they're up in your business.

00:54:07Guest:Yeah.

00:54:08Guest:Like, he's working like the inside of my legs when I'm like, whatever.

00:54:12Guest:Yeah.

00:54:12Guest:And...

00:54:14Guest:And so now I'm going to this woman.

00:54:16Guest:So Ida Rolfe did this thing.

00:54:18Guest:She had a kid who couldn't walk.

00:54:19Guest:Right.

00:54:20Guest:And she was a medical doctor in the 30s, which is interesting enough as it is.

00:54:24Guest:And then she decided that the reason he couldn't walk is because his joints were locked up.

00:54:29Guest:Yeah.

00:54:29Guest:And she thought if you could if you could release all the fascia, which holds all the muscles, the outside of the muscles.

00:54:34Guest:Yeah.

00:54:34Guest:it could loosen up his joints, sort of shake out his skeleton, and he'd be able to walk.

00:54:41Guest:And so she started doing it.

00:54:43Guest:I think he was like five or six years old, and by the time he was 15 or 16, he could walk.

00:54:46Marc:Huh.

00:54:47Marc:Yeah.

00:54:48Marc:Well, that's the big resume piece.

00:54:49Marc:Right, right.

00:54:50Marc:Sell that.

00:54:51Guest:That's the story to sell.

00:54:52Marc:That's the pitch, yeah.

00:54:53Guest:So then this guy went to the Rolfing Institute.

00:54:56Guest:His name is Joseph Heller.

00:54:58Marc:Not the writer of Catch-22.

00:55:00Guest:Not the writer of Catch-22.

00:55:01Guest:Good book.

00:55:02Marc:Yeah.

00:55:02Marc:Good.

00:55:02Marc:And he also had some muscular problems later in life.

00:55:05Guest:Did he?

00:55:06Marc:Yeah.

00:55:06Marc:But clearly not the same guy.

00:55:07Guest:It's clearly not.

00:55:08Guest:You know what?

00:55:09Guest:I always thought that his name was familiar.

00:55:11Marc:Yeah.

00:55:11Guest:I wonder if I'm if I'm whatever.

00:55:13Guest:OK.

00:55:13Guest:Somebody Google it.

00:55:15Guest:So the but but he he was in the only way to get anywhere, I guess, in the in the body work massage therapy industry is to create your own thing.

00:55:24Guest:Right.

00:55:24Guest:Is to say, well, now we're doing the Heller work.

00:55:26Guest:Yeah.

00:55:27Guest:And if you go to hellerwork.org, it's like that.

00:55:31Guest:So it's that deep tissue massage business.

00:55:33Guest:Yeah.

00:55:33Guest:But there's also like a therapy type of thing where they talk to you during it.

00:55:38Guest:And it's this whole thing about like –

00:55:42Guest:Yeah.

00:55:43Marc:That's very different than the male dream of the happy ending.

00:55:46Guest:Right, right.

00:55:47Guest:This is the happiest lady ending ever where you get to chitter chat and cry and scream.

00:55:52Guest:And it's pretty awesome because supposedly like, you know, there's emotional memories in your muscles.

00:55:58Guest:And once they release the fascia and the tendons and the muscle, once they get in there, they can get to where you were beaten as a child.

00:56:05Guest:And then you can go, I hated that.

00:56:07Guest:And that happens?

00:56:09Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:09Marc:I almost started crying.

00:56:10Marc:I went to a voice lesson.

00:56:11Marc:Just opening my diaphragm almost teared me up.

00:56:13Guest:Oh, that'll do it.

00:56:14Marc:Holy shit.

00:56:15Marc:So, wait.

00:56:15Marc:So, okay.

00:56:16Marc:Sucker punched?

00:56:17Marc:Something.

00:56:18Guest:Something must happen.

00:56:19Marc:I don't know.

00:56:19Marc:But, like, I know that when I've been massaged or even sometimes in yoga that you can feel emotions being released.

00:56:25Guest:In that, like, in your midsection mostly or...

00:56:28Marc:I'm trying to think when it's happened, but I mean, I've heard that happening, but you're coached out of them.

00:56:34Guest:Yeah.

00:56:35Guest:They try to coach it.

00:56:36Guest:They try to they try.

00:56:37Guest:She tries to get you to like literally go like, so what do you think about this area of your body?

00:56:42Marc:Because like the first session was like I'm getting emotional.

00:56:45Guest:Just was was ribcage and and and lungs and stuff.

00:56:49Guest:Yeah.

00:56:49Guest:And then the second one was my legs.

00:56:52Guest:Yeah.

00:56:53Guest:And then the third one was the side of my bodies, my bodies, my body.

00:56:57Guest:And it was all the way down like the left side and all the way down the right side.

00:57:00Guest:Yeah.

00:57:01Guest:And it was, you know, it was like the I've had three sessions and the first session and the third session.

00:57:08Guest:I spent the entire time just screaming.

00:57:10Yeah.

00:57:10Guest:Just swearing and screaming, but not in pain.

00:57:14Guest:Yeah.

00:57:14Guest:It was more, literally, it was more emotional pain.

00:57:17Guest:Like, rolfing sometimes 15 years ago left me with some bruises.

00:57:21Marc:Yeah.

00:57:21Marc:Like cupping.

00:57:22Marc:Yeah.

00:57:22Marc:To some extent.

00:57:23Guest:We'll leave you with some bruises.

00:57:24Marc:Right.

00:57:24Guest:I don't mind cupping.

00:57:25Guest:Yeah.

00:57:25Guest:Cupping is nice, acupuncturist.

00:57:28Marc:That's with the flames?

00:57:30Guest:No, I think it's just their metal suction cups and they go squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak.

00:57:34Marc:Oh, and they lock on?

00:57:35Marc:They lock onto your back.

00:57:36Guest:Like leeches.

00:57:36Guest:They're like leeches and they suck all the... Oh.

00:57:39Guest:Chinese bad energy.

00:57:41Marc:I've had that.

00:57:42Marc:My first wife was recovering from meningitis, and she was on the teas with the bugs and the special Chinese teapots and the acupuncture tea.

00:57:54Guest:Oh, the junk, the crazy stick tea.

00:57:56Marc:Yeah, stick tea, but there's all kinds of things.

00:57:58Marc:If you go to a Chinese pharmacy, it's like going to a natural history museum.

00:58:01Guest:Yeah, Andy wouldn't let me cook it in the house.

00:58:04Guest:Yeah, because it stinks.

00:58:05Marc:Yeah.

00:58:06Guest:Yeah, it's like going to like a pile of leaves, digging underneath it, grabbing a handful.

00:58:11Marc:Yeah, and she used to do that, and then I went to acupuncture for smoking and stuff.

00:58:14Marc:It definitely does something.

00:58:15Guest:Right.

00:58:16Marc:But your husband's not into it?

00:58:17Guest:No, no, he's not into it.

00:58:19Guest:He's incredibly normal.

00:58:21Marc:What do you mean?

00:58:22Marc:Like he just believes Western medicine is Western medicine?

00:58:24Marc:No, no, no.

00:58:25Guest:He's on board and with, um, he'll hear it out, but he doesn't even want to go to the dentist.

00:58:30Guest:Yeah.

00:58:30Guest:Like he's just sort of a guy about the whole thing where he's just like, that's fine.

00:58:34Guest:You know, um, you should go to that.

00:58:37Guest:And, and, and he, I, he went to, uh, he called it, uh, he went to some hippie doctor that he called his shaman for a while when we first started dating that some, some friend of his, a goth friend of his turned him on to.

00:58:48Marc:But he did that.

00:58:49Guest:He did that.

00:58:50Guest:But he's hesitant about it.

00:58:55Marc:Maybe he had a bad experience with a shaman.

00:58:56Guest:He had a terrible experience with a chiropractor when he was a kid.

00:58:59Guest:Because he had a... What's that thing with the scoliosis?

00:59:03Guest:He had scoliosis.

00:59:04Guest:So that probably scarred him.

00:59:07Guest:Yeah, so it scarred him from all the hippie doctors of the world.

00:59:09Marc:So maybe if he ever come back around and went to your massage therapist, that he would cry about that experience with the chiropractor.

00:59:16Guest:If he could somehow get that shoulder just to really work in there, and it would just be like, I hated that guy in Oroville, California.

00:59:24Marc:Oh, maybe that's it.

00:59:25Guest:That's where he grew up, Oroville.

00:59:26Marc:I don't even know where that is.

00:59:27Guest:It's outside of San Francisco.

00:59:28Guest:It's a little mining town, as you can well imagine.

00:59:32Marc:So your therapist canceled on you today?

00:59:34Marc:So she canceled today.

00:59:35Guest:And how do you feel about that?

00:59:37Guest:I felt used.

00:59:38Guest:I felt abused.

00:59:40Guest:I felt a little rejected, negative.

00:59:42Marc:And what was her excuse?

00:59:44Guest:She didn't give me one.

00:59:45Guest:She just said, hey, can we reschedule for Friday morning?

00:59:48Guest:And I was like, of course we can.

00:59:50Guest:Yes, we can.

00:59:51Marc:I felt you sucked the emotion down.

00:59:53Marc:You have a Midwestern filter.

00:59:55Marc:I do.

00:59:55Marc:Literally emotions come up.

00:59:57Marc:I will stuff that.

00:59:57Marc:Boom.

00:59:58Marc:I felt it go right down.

00:59:59Guest:I have tried to talk about this in the fact that the only thing I know about having a relationship is I have learned from male comics because I never had a relationship before this relationship.

01:00:08Guest:I always just got laid on the road, right?

01:00:11Marc:I love that you did that.

01:00:12Guest:Well, every year and a half I'd get drunk enough and screw up my courage and lie there and think of England, whatever.

01:00:18Guest:But it was just like it was not the best time.

01:00:20Marc:Every year and a half you'd get laid on the road?

01:00:22Guest:I know, I know.

01:00:23Guest:You're like, how is that possible?

01:00:25Marc:I just got to do it.

01:00:27Guest:I just need a tune-up or some horrible analogy that is probably more ladylike.

01:00:33Guest:Anyway, but the thing is, if people see a lot of stand-up comedy, especially road comedy, you will meet guys who are married.

01:00:42Guest:And that's all I knew about being married, which is that women will steal all your money.

01:00:46Guest:They will stop having sex with you once you get married.

01:00:49Guest:And they're bitches, man.

01:00:49Guest:They're all bitches.

01:00:50Guest:Yeah.

01:00:51Guest:So I have spent like the last four years of my life making sure that I am not hemorrhaging his money, that everybody's happy in the sack.

01:00:58Guest:We having a good time in the sack, right?

01:00:59Guest:Everybody's having fun.

01:01:01Guest:And then if I have a negative emotion, I like to stuff it so that we don't have to deal with it and then talk about it on the radio.

01:01:07Guest:Perfect.

01:01:09Marc:Well, I think we've covered it, Jackie.

01:01:11Guest:I think we have.

01:01:11Guest:I think, holy smokes.

01:01:13Guest:That was some amazing stuff.

01:01:15Marc:Well, do you want to leave it there?

01:01:16Guest:Yeah, I think so.

01:01:17Marc:Jackie Cation, thank you for coming to the Cat Ranch.

01:01:19Guest:Thanks for having me.

01:01:23Marc:That's our show.

01:01:26Marc:I love Jackie Cation.

01:01:28Marc:I love you people.

01:01:30Marc:Hope it didn't drain you at all.

01:01:31Marc:Hope everything's okay.

01:01:33Marc:Hope you have a great Christmas.

01:01:35Marc:And I hope you enjoy the live one this Thursday.

01:01:38Marc:It's very funny.

01:01:39Marc:Please be careful out there.

01:01:41Marc:And go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:01:45Marc:Kick in some money.

01:01:46Marc:Be giving, would you?

01:01:48Marc:I'm trying to earn a living here.

01:01:50Marc:Here in Albuquerque on the 26th.

01:01:52Marc:We just added a show at the Cell Theater.

01:01:55Marc:Go to that.

01:01:56Marc:Go look up the Cell Theater in Albuquerque and come to one of those with Nato Green and Alex Cole.

01:02:02Marc:It's going to be fun.

01:02:03Marc:I'm going to see my dad.

01:02:04Marc:Maybe you'll meet my dad if you come.

01:02:07Marc:Go to punchlinemagazine.com.

01:02:09Marc:Enjoy that.

01:02:10Marc:Standuprecords.com.

01:02:11Marc:Enjoy that.

01:02:13Marc:Justcoffee.coop because that shit is fucking necessary.

01:02:17Marc:Oh, I'm heavy hearted.

01:02:18Marc:Happy holidays.

01:02:20Marc:Here we go!