Episode 1327 - Tony Hawk
Marc:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:It's me, Mark Marin.
Marc:I'm I'm still out there.
Marc:I'm still out here.
Marc:I'm in a hotel room.
Marc:It's a beauty, though.
Marc:I love this place.
Marc:The Hewing Hotel.
Marc:Is that what it is in Minneapolis?
Marc:Is that where I always stay at the Hewing Hotel?
Marc:It's really a, I don't know, man.
Marc:There's something that I'm noticing about hotels, especially because I'm staying at relatively nice ones, that if you stay at a really nice hotel and you're a road person or you spend a lot of time on the road, it's fucking beautiful.
Marc:You're like, you get in the room, you're like, oh man, this is great.
Marc:I don't mind being here at all.
Marc:Madison, Wisconsin, what was that?
Marc:That was the Barrymore Theater.
Marc:Great time.
Marc:This is who I am.
Marc:It's what I do.
Marc:It's what I've always done.
Marc:And right now, I seem to be full-minded into it with no resistance and complete control and total comfort.
Marc:And the shows have been...
Marc:All in, all in for like two hours.
Marc:I love not having an opener.
Marc:It's fucking joy to just go out there, settle people down, get them focused and just do like a whole show because it's starting to unfold as a full arced show just emotionally.
Marc:There's a lot of up and down to it.
Marc:So Madison was great.
Marc:Then I drove on into Milwaukee.
Marc:And I've talked about this, I think the last time I was there, years ago.
Marc:That's a great city.
Marc:The audiences that come out to see me in the Midwest really are great audiences.
Marc:They're good people.
Marc:People that come out to see me in the Midwest are some of the...
Marc:Nicest, smartest.
Marc:They know how to be an audience and they appreciate and understand performance every fucking night.
Marc:Madison was amazing.
Marc:And Milwaukee.
Marc:What I was going to say is that cities seems to have come along.
Marc:I don't know going back to these cities after COVID.
Marc:the ones that were sort of kind of building themselves up before the last time I was here.
Marc:I didn't know if they would be leveled by COVID, but Milwaukee actually seems like it's starting to happen even more.
Marc:There's something about these old kind of industrial cities.
Marc:And then I went to, where'd it go?
Marc:Back to Chicago.
Marc:Kit was there, met me there.
Marc:She has family there.
Marc:And also my mother's oldest friend and her husband and their sons all live there.
Marc:So it was kind of, I was able to hook up with Kit, drove in from Milwaukee.
Marc:And yeah, I did the Chicago thing.
Marc:I went to Lou Malnati's.
Marc:It's the old standby.
Marc:And here's the thing.
Marc:I know people have their favorite restaurants in these places.
Marc:I go, whatever.
Marc:That's where I go.
Marc:People are like, you ought to try other places.
Marc:Why?
Marc:I like the people there.
Marc:I get treated well there.
Marc:And I know what I'm going to get.
Marc:You can be loyal to whatever you want.
Marc:You can have your choice.
Marc:I've tried a couple other places years ago.
Marc:I've been to Chicago a lot.
Marc:But I've got to be honest with you.
Marc:I go to Lou Malnati's because I know what I'm going to get.
Marc:And I like it.
Marc:Lou Malnati's salad and that fucking buttercress.
Marc:That first bite of Lou Malnati's deep dish.
Marc:Some people don't even think it's pizza.
Marc:I don't give a fuck.
Marc:I don't give a fuck what it is.
Marc:I only get it there, and it's the only place it exists in my mind.
Marc:But that butter crust pizza on that deep dish with that first little hint of yeast to it almost, it's fucking amazing.
Marc:So I did that.
Marc:I did it.
Marc:I did the lose, and it was great.
Marc:I couldn't eat again.
Marc:For the rest of the day, but that's all right.
Marc:But the show in Chicago at the Vic, which is a place I recorded a special and a place also that I've played many times was better than it's ever been.
Marc:I don't know how to explain it.
Marc:You know, whatever I've worked my whole life to do, I'm doing and I'm fucking good at it.
Marc:And I don't even like saying that.
Marc:That's the other thing that's sort of freaking me out is I'm not a person that's going to continue to be sort of like cranky or angry or hard on myself because I think that it makes me funnier or that I don't believe that being unhappy or being miserable is somehow where I need to be in order to do the work I do.
Marc:Usually it's just the way I am.
Marc:But I realized something the other day in one of my meditative card rides and after talking to some fans is that if I'm really happy and I feel good about myself, I'm intolerable.
Marc:OK, it's like the way I talk.
Marc:It's just sort of like, yeah, I am pretty amazing.
Marc:I know it's great that I'm so good.
Marc:And like just like it's not exactly that.
Marc:But it would just when I hear myself being happy about who I am and my place in the world and my work, I would not want to be talking to me.
Marc:It's just contemptible.
Marc:I'd rather people say that guy's difficult.
Marc:That guy's an asshole or like, you know, very intense.
Marc:You know, I keep my distance except for the people that really know me.
Marc:And they're just sort of like.
Marc:Yeah, he's up and down.
Marc:But I've been pretty level for a long time.
Marc:But when I hear myself really sort of be satisfied or content or experience joy, I'd want to punch that guy in the face if that guy was me.
Marc:But I guess that just brings us around, back around to this self-flagellation thing.
Marc:But the tone of it, maybe I'm just uncomfortable with it, but if I'm not mistaken, it would be unbearable for somebody to listen to.
Marc:And I know a lot of people who know me and who are rooting for me or whatever, they're like, we just want you to be happy.
Marc:I'm like, do you though?
Marc:Because it's hard to listen to me satisfied, happy, or okay with myself.
Marc:It's really just totally open-hearted.
Marc:It's really difficult to put up with.
Marc:But I might just be speaking for me.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:More will be revealed, as they say in the recovery racket.
Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Tony Hawk.
Marc:The skateboarder.
Marc:He's probably the most famous skateboarder in the world.
Marc:Even if you don't know anything about skateboarding, you know who Tony Hawk is because he's been everywhere for like 30 years.
Marc:The X Games, the Tony Hawk Pro Scare Video Games, Jackass, his company, Birdhouse, all of it.
Marc:And he's the subject of this new documentary, Tony Hawk, Until the Wheels Fall Off, which you can watch on HBO Max.
Marc:I don't know anything about skateboarding.
Marc:Yeah, I didn't know.
Marc:I lived through it.
Marc:It happened in my lifetime.
Marc:We knew that Tony was available like months and months ago, but I'm like, I don't know anything about that shit.
Marc:My brother was kind of into skateboarding.
Marc:It's so not my life.
Marc:It's so not my world.
Marc:I'm not the guy that, look, if I'm going to take risks that are life-threatening, it's going to be emotional.
Marc:It's not going to be physical.
Marc:I don't want to break.
Marc:And like, you know, if something gets too intense, you know, or out of my, out of control, like if it's on wheels or on skis, like generally I'll, I'll, I'll sort of like check out and just wait till I hit the wall and,
Marc:So, and I do that emotionally, it's not as dangerous.
Marc:But when you sort of like just relax into not being able to control skis or a skateboard or parachute or, you know, climbing a rock with your fingers and no rope and you just give up, then, you know, you're in trouble.
Marc:You're in trouble.
Marc:Like I've talked about it before, but I think that if I was hanging off a cliff and it was a life or death situation, there was no one there to help me.
Marc:you know the idea that like you know would i sort of like find that amazing inner strength and physical ability to pull myself back up on top and survive i think i would i would sort of be like i don't know and i would just slowly you know kind of like let it happen just let go
Marc:So so I stay away from those challenges, the ones that require wheels or ropes or skis or any size wheel.
Marc:But so I didn't know that I didn't think that I could really have anything to talk to him about to Tony.
Marc:But then I watched a doc and I realized there's something about his compulsive nature that I identify with.
Marc:There's something I identify with him as a person.
Marc:There's an intensity there.
Marc:So I was like, fuck it.
Marc:Yeah, let's give it a try.
Marc:Let's have a conversation.
Marc:And it was pretty great.
Marc:And you'll hear that in just a second.
Marc:But, oh, my God.
Marc:So these shows.
Marc:So I got a show tonight.
Marc:I'm recording this a couple days ago.
Marc:I got a shower.
Marc:Shit, I got to.
Marc:Let's drink some coffee.
Marc:I got to be over at the Pantages.
Marc:Minneapolis tonight.
Marc:Been here many times.
Marc:It's just also weird to realize how many times I've been to these places.
Marc:I don't think time is flying by, but it's happening, people.
Marc:It's getting away from us on so many levels.
Marc:and i talked to i'm going to talk to tony about this about i i think you know just about the nature of aging and and continuing to to sort of throw yourself down the ramp man on wheels the documentary tony hawk until the wheels fall off is now available on hbo max and this is me back at home in the garage studio talking to uh tony hawk
Marc:I'm watching the latest Jackass movie.
Marc:Let's go backwards from that.
Marc:Because I didn't realize until I was talking to my producer today that those guys, it's all intrinsically connected to skateboarding.
Marc:Oh, absolutely.
Marc:And punk rock to a degree, but mostly to skateboarding.
Marc:It just seems like the logical extension of skateboard culture, if you get rid of the board, is just destroying yourself.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but for the sake of humor.
Marc:Yeah, I know, I know.
Marc:But there's a point with some of that stuff where it's like, I'm not sure that bull bit was funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It didn't even seem necessary.
Guest:I mean, Steve-O was sort of like, why are we doing this?
Guest:I remember him telling me when they first started filming, and he said- Who, Knoxville?
Guest:Steve-O.
Guest:Oh, Steve, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and he said, the only rule I had was no more concussions.
Guest:And the very first thing they shot-
Guest:He got concussed.
Guest:He got concussed, yeah.
Marc:But how did you get tied in with those?
Marc:What is the back history of that crew and skateboarding?
Guest:So that crew essentially started with Big Brother Magazine, which was a really edgy skateboard magazine.
Guest:And edgy to the point of a fault because no one wanted to advertise with them because they were just dissing everyone.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So it was just total like, fuck you.
Guest:Everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Including companies that were paying them for ads.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But they started doing videos and their videos were filled with hijinks.
Guest:And that's where Knoxville came in.
Guest:But he wasn't a skateboarder.
Guest:Not a skateboarder, but he had some mutual friends and he offered to do some of their video stuff and he would do anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They loved him.
Marc:That guy?
Guest:I dare you.
Guest:So he famously, I think probably the spark to that was he did the self-defense testing where he was, you know, he did this mace in his face and then eventually he did the bulletproof vest.
Guest:And when he shot himself with the bulletproof vest, it was like, these guys are the craziest.
Guest:They'll do anything.
Guest:We need to make this a thing.
Guest:And then at the same time, Bam was doing his skate videos in Pennsylvania with a lot of hijinks too.
Guest:Now, how does he rank?
Guest:as a skater?
Guest:Oh, he was super good in his heyday, yeah.
Guest:Oh yeah?
Guest:Absolutely, yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's weird because skating is so subjective and Bam didn't really compete.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So all of his stuff was on video, but he was great.
Guest:Yeah, no competing though.
Guest:No, and that's true for a lot of skaters.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:There's only a core group of you nuts that did the competition?
Guest:Well, in my era, it was necessary.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because that was the only way to get any sort of recognition or really to get any sort of gathering.
Guest:Right, sure.
Guest:Because it was such a small scene.
Guest:Now-
Guest:Social media, YouTube.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You don't have to.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:There is a shift where none of that stuff, the established methods of recognition through either corporate sponsorship or awards don't matter anymore.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because you can kind of just make your own world.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But at the same time, there is a hardcore group of competitors that are super technical and very consistent.
Guest:And that's what they do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They go compete.
Guest:They win big money.
Guest:They're in the Olympics and all that.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:It all exists.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The Olympics are a big deal still.
Guest:Well, that was the first time skateboarding was in the Olympics.
Guest:When was it last year?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what was your sense of pride around that?
Guest:I thought it was cool.
Guest:I wasn't a big fan of the format, especially with the street event.
Guest:Yeah, why?
Guest:Because the way they do it, it's not like a routine.
Guest:It's more you get five chances at one trick.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so it was a lot of just bailing, and the general public did not understand that concept.
Guest:Hardcore skaters understand it.
Guest:Right, that you could just keep going until you get it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But people don't necessarily want to watch that?
Guest:No, I mean, imagine some other sport where you watch an ice skater trying to do a... Okay, try again.
Guest:Yeah, try again.
Guest:You quadruple.
Guest:Nope, we're going to try that one.
Guest:Run it back.
Guest:I wonder why they did that with skateboarding.
Guest:That was the format they had come up with with the street that was working pretty well, and they just carried it over.
Guest:But with the park event, which was more of the bowl and the pool, that was like, you have a 45-second routine or a 50-second routine, and if you fall, you're penalized, but...
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because it seemed like that was more traditional.
Marc:It seems that like in terms of format, in some ways, it's most like gymnastics.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In that, you know, there are moves and there are things that they can judge you on your technique or what you bring to it or how you stylize a trick that everybody else, you know, that anyone can do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's exactly it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's just less compulsory.
Guest:It's not like there are certain sets of tricks that have to be done.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So, okay, so the filmmaking, so going back with Bam and those guys, who were the filmmakers that came out of that thing, out of, you know, the skating thing?
Guest:Well, so Bam was doing these sort of comedic videos.
Guest:Not a lot of hijinks, some hijinks, but also some just sort of script and stuff.
Guest:He was really, you know, he was a creative force.
Guest:And so it was Spike.
Guest:Spike Jones brought the two together because he was involved with Big Brother magazine and the videos.
Guest:He saw what Bam was doing and he packaged it and brought it to MTV.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That's how that all came together.
Marc:And I think that's how Spike started, period.
Marc:Was he a still photographer?
Guest:He was a still photographer.
Marc:For Big Brother?
Guest:Before Big Brother, he...
Guest:He took photos for a kind of underground skate magazine called Homeboy.
Guest:Oh, okay, yeah.
Guest:But he was big into BMX.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So he was actually a BMX photographer and BMX writer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so those worlds were somewhat connected and then became this obvious, very...
Guest:successful photographer through that.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Um, and then started doing all this other stuff through, uh, he started, um, helped start girl skateboards.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like high shoes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So all of their videos had the spike magic to them.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Where they were doing CGI.
Guest:They got, they got Owen Wilson doing cameos, Jack Black.
Guest:And it was, it was like, wait a second, what is going on here?
Marc:But so there's always been this network of people that are, are,
Marc:You know, established in different fields that came through, you know, skateboard.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:That came through you guys.
Marc:It came through whatever the generation was before you.
Marc:Because, like, look, I'm not that kind of risk taker.
Marc:You know, I'll take emotional risks and do comedy, but I can't do I'm not the skateboard guy.
Marc:But I watched the documentary and I was like, you know, because I remember you came up as a potential guest and I'm like, I don't know anything about that.
Marc:But when you watch the doc, it's not really about that somehow.
Marc:It's about you.
Guest:Yeah, but also I think that I hope that the message of what skateboarding is comes through in that.
Guest:Of course.
Marc:Yeah, the history's there.
Guest:The history's there, but it's also, it's this individual pursuit, but there's a community around it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's all DIY.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:All of it from the get-go, you know, just in terms of figuring out tricks, building places to skate, making videos.
Marc:Well, yeah, just that this sort of almost vandalizing first, the vandalizing nature of it originally to jump over walls and skate in empty pools.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was DIY and also punk rock.
Marc:It all kind of matched up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But in terms of, I think the reason why I found it interesting is that, you know, I held you.
Marc:I'm 53 53 okay I'm 58 and you know I don't always know why I continue doing things yeah and I you know like I go out and I do it I do the stand-up I can't I keep pushing and I don't know what but like you do as well again yours is much more dangerous but do you as I found out very recently yeah what'd you do I broke my femur Wow seven weeks ago exactly seven weeks that's the top bone
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If I was going to do it, I went big.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How'd you do that?
Guest:Just doing a trick that I do quite often.
Marc:For anybody or just for yourself?
Guest:Were you alone when this happened?
Guest:No, I was skating with friends, but we were challenging ourselves to sort of do it in a different way.
Guest:And when I went, the trick is the McTwist.
Guest:You saw the documentary, so you might understand.
Guest:It's like a 540 spin.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Um, but I didn't have enough speed going into it.
Marc:It's not the one that you're, you're pursuing the entire documentary.
Guest:No, no, no.
Marc:That's a 900.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:This is something you've done a million times.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um, I'd like to think that I put in my 10,000 hours in, uh, but I didn't have enough speed going into it, which I knew and, and accepted.
Guest:Um,
Guest:And in my younger days, that was never a problem.
Guest:I could just ball up and spin faster and make it work.
Guest:And before I knew it, I didn't compensate like that like I used to.
Guest:And my board was on the wall before I was ready for it.
Guest:And suddenly I found myself trying to sort of fix it.
Guest:And next thing I know, I'm sliding across the bottom with my leg literally dragging behind me.
Guest:I mean, I knew it right away and it was really shocking.
Guest:That it was broken, yeah.
Marc:So how many times you broke the leg?
Marc:That's it.
Guest:That's the first time.
Marc:Now, what do you attribute the issue you had?
Marc:I mean, the way you talk about it, it seems like when you're in the trick or when you're in the moment that it's almost like slow motion where you have time to adjust and you're that conscious of it.
Guest:I think what I attribute is that I anticipated that I could fix it like I could in my younger days.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't usually, I don't mess with that trick.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like everything's got to be sort of on point as I go into it.
Guest:Because I do know that it can't be dangerous.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so every other time that I've been doing that trick, I'd say in the last four years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know that I got plenty of speed.
Guest:I got the right takeoff.
Guest:I got the grab, everything, all systems go.
Guest:And in this instance, I just was like, I still got it.
Guest:and I don't and I pay the price and I do feel like there's a big lesson for me in it and especially that was one of the themes of the doc is like how far can you guys take this at your age and it's like yeah I can't just think McTwists are going to happen
Guest:that they're gonna happen if everything's not perfect.
Guest:Yeah, perfect.
Marc:Well, I think when you were a kid, I mean, I thought it was all pretty interesting.
Marc:I mean, I don't know how much you dig around in yourself emotionally to figure out why you do things, but- Not much.
Marc:But you know it's an option.
Guest:Yes, yeah.
Guest:And I think that I understand it better now than I used to.
Guest:And especially for me, the more eye-opening thing about that was hearing my peers and also my mentor, Stacey, talk about it with such great concern.
Guest:And I guess I never...
Guest:I never wanted to hear that.
Guest:So I blocked it out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But you heard it.
Marc:It's loud and clear.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how does that, and the message is, you know, he's got this compulsive problem where he's just going to keep killing himself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, and I, I don't like, I, I don't have a death wish, but I do, I do feel like, I kind of feel like at this point I was flying too close to the sun.
Marc:Like I. With the femur.
Guest:Yeah, before that, I mean, in the last year or so, I've been kind of progressing my tricks.
Guest:Like I've actually been learning a lot of stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And without concern of what the consequences of that could be.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I paid the price.
Guest:But do you know what I mean?
Guest:Like I think I was more that I had this sort of blind faith that everything was fine and I'm just going to keep going upward with my trajectory of trying to figure out new maneuvers and new techniques.
Guest:And ironically, I literally broke my leg the day the trailer dropped for the documentary.
Guest:You know?
Guest:And you're like, wait, we can add something.
Marc:Let's go back to the editing.
Marc:This is the end.
Marc:I found the ending.
Marc:I hope not.
Marc:I hope it's not the end.
Marc:No, it doesn't seem like it.
Marc:You seem to be getting around all right.
Marc:It's a nice cane with the bird skull on top.
Guest:I found that on Etsy.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's pretty menacing.
Yeah.
Marc:But when you were, like, when you were a kid, I found it, I mean, your parents had you way late.
Guest:Yes, very much so, by surprise.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And what's the age difference between you and the next sibling?
Guest:My brother is 13 years older than me.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So that, and everyone's still around, right?
Marc:Everyone's still, well, not my parents, but my siblings, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you were just this, like, you know, single kid in the sort of, like.
Marc:Being raised by grandparents.
Guest:By grandparents.
Marc:Yeah, for the most part.
Marc:And did you find, I mean, emotionally in that situation, you were sort of on your own, right?
Guest:I was, yeah.
Guest:But it wasn't like my parents were neglectful and they were very supportive.
Guest:And my dad was, he was driving me to baseball and basketball and eventually to the skate park.
Guest:So he was supportive.
Guest:I think he was just thankful that I found something to focus my energy on because I was so...
Guest:I would have been diagnosed as hyperactive or ADD or something like that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was so just always moving and always wanted to go.
Guest:And so it was always like he was just exhausted.
Guest:Both of them.
Guest:And they're old.
Guest:Both of them, yeah.
Guest:But my mom was working for the most part during the day.
Guest:So my dad was the one who was sort of- Dealing with the manic kid?
Marc:Yes, yeah.
Marc:But did it ever get to be problematic?
Marc:Because the one thing that interested me is that the kind of-
Marc:pressure you put on yourself.
Marc:I mean, because that's not necessarily ADHD or ADD.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:And I want to be careful in saying I'll be diagnosed with something like that.
Guest:No, but I mean, it's probably true.
Guest:I mean, you're not saying that you would have been.
Guest:But you know, in my day, it was 70.
Guest:So everyone said, oh, he's hyperactive.
Guest:But didn't they say you were also like too smart?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That too.
Guest:But I don't know if that played into my approach to skating.
Guest:I think my approach to skating was, I want to figure out how to do this and I want to do it at all costs and I'll take the time.
Guest:But were you good at other sports?
Guest:And the hits.
Guest:I was okay.
Guest:I was just small.
Guest:So it wasn't that I wasn't good.
Guest:I just didn't have the size to make a big difference.
Marc:But you knew you wanted to be athletic.
Marc:You didn't go another way.
Marc:You weren't gonna be the guitar player or whatever.
Marc:No.
Guest:Well, I did play violin a lot until I got serious about skating.
Marc:How were you on the violin?
Guest:I was actually pretty good.
Guest:My teacher would have me play these sort of extracurricular events on the weekends.
Guest:And that's when it came to a head because he wanted me to play at this event.
Guest:And I said, I have to fly to Jacksonville to go to this competition.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said, well, you can't have both.
Guest:Oh, it would have been amazing if you kept both.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:A violin virtuoso and a skateboard virtuoso.
Guest:I do miss it.
Guest:I miss being all that.
Guest:And I tried to pick it up again.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah, it didn't work.
Guest:Not there.
Marc:So you tried baseball.
Marc:You tried what else?
Marc:Basketball.
Marc:Basketball?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, at that time, again, because I don't know skateboarding, but there was a group, there were people doing it.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:A certain way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that no one really knew about.
Marc:It was just a strange little crew, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, when I got into it, it was the end of the 70s era.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:About 10.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And the 70s era would have been who?
Guest:Like the Dogtown and Z-Boys.
Guest:So that's where Stacey came out?
Guest:Tony Alva, Stacey Peralta, yeah.
Guest:Jay Adams.
Guest:And what was their notoriety?
Guest:How did you know about them?
Guest:Because they were the pool skaters.
Guest:They're the ones who pioneered the whole pool movement.
Guest:So that was Thrasher Magazine?
Guest:In that day, it was actually Skateboarding Magazine.
Marc:It just started.
Marc:Right, because I remember my brother was kind of into it, and he didn't have a big board.
Marc:He had like a bonsai board.
Marc:Was that a thing?
Marc:Yeah, I remember those.
Marc:But he never really got that far into it.
Guest:I think that it was because my brother was a surfer, so I knew of it through my brother, and he skated.
Guest:And where were you growing up?
Marc:Where was it?
Marc:In San Diego.
Marc:Okay, so that would be where it would happen.
Guest:uh yeah and then and then i got a skateboard i started riding around my neighborhood as transportation um eventually got to go to the skate park the local skate park yeah when uh were you grabbing on the cars with the board no i wasn't i wasn't that confident no and i mean the boards were so sketchy they were like the trucks were so small you're gonna get speed wobbles oh yeah no matter what right well now they weren't doing shows or anything right
Guest:No, but the skate park in our town was called Oasis.
Guest:It was fairly prominent.
Guest:Was it new?
Guest:It had been around for a year or two by the time I got there.
Guest:And then they would have events.
Guest:So a lot of the pros would come to the events.
Guest:And then I got to see all those guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Which blew my mind.
Marc:And were the videos happening yet?
Marc:No.
Marc:It was just live.
Marc:Because I guess I'm trying to kind of get a sense of what it... Because not unlike punk rock or even certain elements of stand-up comedy, which I'm doing, there's guys that only... People who love it know.
Marc:And it's not a huge bunch of people, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was very... And little did I know, when I got into it and really dove into it, it was shrinking exponentially.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:During that time.
Marc:So there was like this weird expansion when it first got recognition when they built the first wave of skate parks.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then as I got into it, all those parks were closing up.
Guest:They were too many kids breaking things.
Guest:Just liability.
Guest:Well, liability and it would just fill out a style.
Marc:Oh, liability.
Marc:So the parks would- Couldn't afford it.
Marc:Oh, the insurance.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:No shit.
Marc:Well, that makes sense.
Marc:I don't remember that being talked about, the doc, but that would make complete sense.
Marc:How many lawsuits can you absorb?
Marc:I mean, once the first kid's parents sue the park, it's over.
Guest:Probably, yeah.
Guest:But also, it was falling out of style, too.
Guest:It was...
Guest:It was very much considered a trend in the way that Frisbees or yo-yos were.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Even with those guys flying out of pools like that?
Guest:Yeah, because it was just like, oh, here's your toy.
Guest:It's a skateboard.
Guest:And then once you're, I mean, I remember when I got to junior high, people were like, you still skate?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, didn't you grow out of that?
Marc:Yeah, but I guess the thing is that those people didn't know the extent to which people were really skating.
Marc:Because it would seem to me that if guys are flying out of pools and doing flips, there's going to be a lot of kids who are going to be like, what the fuck?
Guest:That's funny you say that, because that's what I always thought when I was a kid.
Guest:And all through the years, especially the sort of dead years, I didn't understand why it wasn't more popular.
Guest:I was like...
Guest:These guys are, they're Evel Knievel.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're flipping around in the air.
Guest:Like this is incredible.
Guest:And why, why doesn't anyone care?
Guest:Well, why didn't they?
Guest:I can't answer that.
Guest:I mean, at some point, at some point, I think skating fell out of style.
Guest:It fell out of fashion and went through its cycle of popularity.
Guest:And in that low point was a revolution of techniques and moves.
Guest:And that's when people started, literally started to fly out of pools.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So,
Guest:So like during the dead time, the hardcores.
Guest:So I would say like 81, 1980 to like 83, 84 is when all this stuff was happening.
Marc:And this was in the valley.
Marc:I mean, this was not in the peak.
Marc:This was during the time.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So what happened was, you know, everyone was skating.
Marc:Some kids took to it.
Marc:Some kids didn't.
Marc:Some kids were better than others.
Marc:But the people that were, you know, where it was a calling, like yourself and what was ever left of the old crew and some of the guys you started with,
Marc:was that during that time where no one seemed to give a shit, you took it to another level personally, and then all of a sudden when people came back, there were these handful of guys that were doing insane shit.
Guest:Yeah, and the equipment had changed, the styles had changed.
Guest:How did that evolve?
Guest:Who started fixing the trucks and the boards?
Marc:It was just more out of functionality.
Marc:When I did podcasting, there was no podcasting.
Marc:Not much, right?
Marc:Right.
Marc:So when you did boards, were you guys meeting with guys who were making boards?
Guest:We worked with, well Stacy was the one who put me on the team and we definitely worked with Stacy and his partner was George Powell who was also an innovator of products.
Marc:Right, so Stacy's team was what was that called?
Marc:Bones Brigade.
Marc:So he's kind of retired at that point?
Marc:He's retired as a pro skater.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And then he curated this team.
Guest:And this is 80?
Guest:He started that in, I think it was 81, 82.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I got on the team, let's see, 80, yeah, 81.
Guest:I got on in 81.
Marc:So was there, but this was the beginning, right?
Marc:There wasn't really a bunch of teams everywhere, was there?
Guest:There were maybe three big, big, there were three companies that were surviving.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so it was like, it was Palo Peralta, GNS, Santa Cruz, and Vision.
Guest:Those were sort of the big four.
Guest:And they had teams.
Guest:They had teams, yeah.
Marc:And so in terms of technology, you guys would kind of,
Guest:Uh, we, we were just sort of as tricks would evolve, it would be like, well, I need a longer nose to do that.
Guest:Like to keep my front foot on.
Guest:So then we would extend the nose and it was like, but now it looks like a shovel.
Guest:So now we gotta, maybe we should sort of side cut it.
Guest:And you know, it was just all like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we were all over the place.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But did, did it level off board technology?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:It did.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so when you're doing this, it's this weird time where it's not popular, but did you feel the day where you're like, this is my life?
Guest:That's hard to say because when I turned pro, I was 14, and all that meant was that I was competing in a different category for $100 for first place.
Guest:So it wasn't like I thought I chose this career, and I was young enough to know that I'm- No, not a career, but you didn't- But I wanted to be, yes.
Guest:The answer is I wanted to be, but I knew the reality of I can't make a living like that if I'm an adult.
Guest:Right, but were you really thinking about a living?
Guest:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:I mean, it seems to me that when something is your calling, all you're presented with is the lack of choice for the rest of your life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But also the expectations then, especially with my parents, was like, well, you're going to go to college.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And you're going to figure out this job.
Guest:And it was like, well, all I really want to do is this.
Guest:And then I got lucky in that when I was reaching my last years of high school, things started to blow up.
Guest:What was it about it, though?
Marc:I can guess the answer, but I mean, outside of a lot of documentation in the movie of you being hard on yourself and not giving up, what made it worthwhile?
Marc:Was it just that way?
Guest:Oh, the creativity of it and what it provided me when I would go figure out a new trick or a new technique, that buzz that I didn't have, nothing else compared to that
Guest:And I mean, that was the dragon I've been chasing the whole time.
Guest:That feeling, like when I first made a trick, it was halfway up the wall of a pool.
Guest:I had to reach down and grab my board on the way up and maneuver it around, but I did this trick that had never been done.
Guest:And when I did it and I landed, I was like, holy shit.
Guest:Like, I just wrote a song.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm 11.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, that was unreal.
Guest:A hit.
Guest:It wasn't a hit, but I liked it.
Guest:But no one else had ever done it before.
Guest:No one had done it, yeah.
Guest:You're like an astronaut.
Guest:You made it to the planet.
Guest:I did feel like that.
Guest:And so then when it started to evolve and I started to build on that, that was it.
Guest:Like, I was stuck in it.
Guest:And, well, yeah, well, that's the thing, man.
Marc:I mean, like, whatever you would have been diagnosed with as a kid, the only thing that's going to make you feel present and connected is that feeling of elation when you complete something, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And like I said, and probably chased it to a fault.
Guest:Well, I mean, but that's what, you know, addicts do.
Guest:Yeah, yes.
Guest:I think that's the word that no one wanted to say, especially in the doc.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it looks like some of those guys tried a lot of addictions.
Marc:Some of them look like they live pretty hard.
Marc:But I think that's just part of the character of it.
Marc:If you have that singularity of focus and that compulsive need to perfect a thing and then fly.
Marc:I mean, once you learn how to fly.
Guest:Oh, that was it.
Guest:Are you kidding me?
Guest:When I first did an aerial out of a pool, that was another moment where it was like, I'm just doing this forever.
Guest:There's nothing that it compares to.
Marc:I'm laughing with joy for you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because it seems to me that even at this age or however long it's going to take you to get on your feet, even if you just do the simpler tricks, you can still kind of fly when you want it.
Guest:Oh, I do.
Guest:I'm looking forward to just getting a baseline of tricks and I'll be fine with that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I truly will be content.
Marc:It's called, I think they call it maintenance in the recovery game.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:I don't want to go too, I just want, you know, trick maintenance.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:There's a trick that I do that I did whenever I would first get to my ramp.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Super basic trick just sort of lets me feel out how my body is doing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's basically like I slide along the tail on the coping.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And nowadays, like all I want to do is that.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I just want to do a tail slide.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:And you can just go do it, right?
Marc:No, not yet.
Marc:Well, I mean, but like before this happened, you could do it.
Guest:Oh, yes.
Marc:You mean right now with your injury.
Marc:Yeah, that's what I'm driving towards.
Marc:How many times are you stepping on the board right now?
Marc:I mean, just to feel it out.
Guest:I have, yeah, a few.
Guest:And I paid the price.
Guest:Actually, I was almost done with this cane last week.
Guest:I was probably walking half the time without it.
Guest:And then I stepped on my skateboard on Friday and pushed it too far.
Guest:And I had to step off.
Guest:That was a problem.
Guest:I had to step off and I stepped off on my bad leg.
Guest:Oh, and you went down?
Guest:Came home and my wife's like, what the fuck's wrong with you?
Guest:How many times have you heard that?
Guest:A lot in the last six weeks.
Guest:Not usually before that.
Guest:She's very supportive and understanding.
Guest:And she grew up skating.
Guest:She's from Detroit, punk rocker.
Guest:She grew up skating too, so she gets it.
Marc:The woman that you came with?
Guest:Kathy is her name?
Guest:Yeah, Kathy.
Marc:And this is the fourth wife?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Keep trying.
Marc:You keep trying.
Guest:No, we got it.
Marc:I figured it out.
Marc:Good.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:So what struck me too about the other guys who I didn't know, and I imagine, I don't know how many people listening to this show will be like, how the fuck does he not know Steve Caballero or whatever his name is?
Marc:Is his name?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And these guys, was that some, they all have such distinct personalities and such specific,
Marc:Approaches to understanding why they do what they do, but they're not unlike you and that they clearly many of them are still doing it to the degree that you are.
Marc:But but they all look up to your ability and the things you've contributed.
Marc:But they all have a certain, you know, understanding of why and how and what they're doing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they can't.
Guest:None of them can stop.
Guest:You know what's amazing to me is that that crew, Stacey put us together when we were in our early teens.
Guest:All those guys.
Guest:All those guys.
Guest:Who's the mystical guy?
Guest:Rodney Mullen.
Guest:That guy's something.
Guest:I just had dinner with him last night.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah, he's amazing.
Guest:And you've known him since you were 14?
Guest:Oh, since I was 12.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, because we both had different styles of skating.
Guest:We were both very much in the same mindset of how to do it.
Marc:Yeah, I felt that, but there was something about him that it almost seemed like it was some sort of zen practice.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, he's like a super genius and very philosophical.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he really is like so smart to the point of being hired for think tanks and stuff.
Marc:But he's on a different level.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like what kind of smart?
Marc:What does he do for think tanks?
Guest:I think just ideas.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And yeah, at some point they were asking him to start curating exhibits for Smithsonian.
Guest:I mean, oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that's interesting.
Marc:So he's sort of some sort of a savant, some sort of genius guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you have, you're highly intelligent.
Marc:So now I've just been dealing with this with peers from my past.
Marc:So when you guys, how often do you hang out?
Marc:Oh, the other skaters?
Marc:Well, you and him, it's particular.
Guest:We try.
Guest:I'd say it's rare every few months or so.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But there's no distance, right?
Guest:No, no, we jump right back in, yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:For what, 40 years?
Guest:40 years, yeah.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What I was going to say is that whole crew of skaters, so many skaters have come and gone and ran into personal issues and all of these skaters that Stacey put together are all still skating and all kind of made it through the fire, which is just amazing.
Guest:What is there, like 10 of them?
Guest:Eight of them?
Guest:I would say there's six core of us that were the Bones Brigade who are all, like I said, still around.
Guest:That's Steve, Kristen, Rodney, Lance.
Guest:Rodney, Lance.
Guest:Yeah, Neil doesn't skate so much, but he wasn't a Bones Brigade guy.
Guest:Mike?
Guest:Mike McGill still skating.
Guest:And Dwayne?
Guest:I think, well, Dwayne has come against some hardships and some physical issues, but I do see clips of him skating still.
Marc:Yeah, and was he one of them?
Marc:Was he a Bones Brigade guy?
Guest:No, he was before.
Marc:Oh, he was.
Guest:He was the generation right before.
Marc:Yeah, because I like that whole thread of tension between his perception of you and his life.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It looked like he's run into some fairly heavy obstacles.
Guest:Yeah, and I hope he can get through it.
Marc:Well, I thought that was kind of a beautiful moment in the documentary where it wasn't so much that he conceded, but there's a humbling that happens with age and life where you look at things differently and maybe correctly, and he was sort of like, yeah, he's all right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But yeah, so all these guys still do it, but they all sort of look at you, except for Rodney, who seems to understand intrinsically why you keep doing it.
Guest:Yeah, because he does.
Guest:He does.
Guest:That's the thing, is Rodney still skates every single day.
Guest:He just doesn't do it in public because he feels like his skills are fading a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said it to me privately, like I don't want to rot in public.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, sure.
Guest:None of us do.
Guest:I asked him last night, I was like, are you still skating?
Guest:He's like, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I know he's still skating, but I wanted to know if he was still skating as regularly.
Guest:So Rodney is like a vampire.
Guest:He only sleeps during the day.
Guest:He goes out skating at midnight every night and is done at like 3 or 4 a.m.
Guest:Where does he do it?
Guest:In parking lots.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And has run into some scary situations.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Because he's just out downtown LA or wherever in the middle of the night.
Marc:Well, he seems like he's doing something like, it's almost like a dance of some kind.
Marc:He's not flying off of walls.
Marc:No, no, no, but all of those tricks.
Marc:It's very personal.
Guest:Yeah, it's very personal, yes.
Marc:Huh.
Guest:But I mean, he really, he created half of the modern skateboard tricks.
Guest:He did.
Guest:In terms of what kids do with their board under their feet on flat ground.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's all Rodney.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you've created most of the aerial stuff?
Guest:A lot of it, yeah.
Guest:But I feel like Rodney's contributions are much more, resonate much further.
Guest:Because a kid, like a kid gets a skateboard, they want to learn how to kickflip.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They don't want to learn how to McTwist.
Guest:They want to learn how to kickflip.
Marc:They have to do that first, the kickflip.
Guest:Rodney created the kickflip.
Marc:He did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We used to call it a magic flip because we didn't understand how he did it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we're like, how did that flip?
Guest:He goes, oh, it's magic.
Guest:Did you figure it out?
Guest:Well, yeah, eventually, yes.
Guest:But now most of the skate community has figured it out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, were those times like, did you all like, were you all kind of standing around going like, wait, how'd you, how'd you do that?
Guest:Oh yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was, that was the weird thing in those days.
Guest:Freestyle was more considered dancing and just not cool.
Oh,
Guest:Because we were skating pools, we were doing aerials, we were grinding, we were risking our lives.
Guest:And then these guys are doing pirouettes and stuff, right?
Guest:But there was something about Rodney that when a freestyle contest would happen, everyone's just kind of...
Guest:scattered and wandering off and whatever.
Guest:And they would say, next up is Rodney Mullen.
Guest:Everyone would come back.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everyone.
Guest:And everyone would stop what they're doing.
Guest:Like the skate park was all the bowls and stuff.
Guest:Everyone stopped skating all the bowls and they would just watch Rodney.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Because we knew it was something special and something so progressive that we couldn't even grasp what it was.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:And all you kind of wildcats out there flying into the air, come to watch this guy.
Marc:It's just going to be him and his board.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:But there was also some tension between the old timers and you flying around, right?
Guest:Yeah, because, well, I just didn't, I didn't really have the strength or the size to do the things that they were doing the way they did them.
Guest:Which was what?
Guest:um well basically what when they would do aerials they would reach down and grab their board before they got to the top yeah and then yank it out yeah and i didn't have the the bulk or the strength to do that at any sort of height that was that meant anything yeah that was significant so i figured out how to how to get into the air without grabbing my board and then grab it at the peak yeah
Guest:And it was just out of desperation.
Guest:It wasn't like I thought I was revolutionizing how to do this.
Guest:It was just more like, that's the only way I can do it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then at some point, the older skaters, one of them gave an interview in the magazine.
Guest:They said, what do you think about Tony Hawk?
Guest:He's like, oh, I mean, he just cheats.
Guest:Like he always into his aerials and then he can grab it however way.
Guest:Like that's cheating.
Guest:But I was thinking like...
Guest:Isn't that good?
Guest:That I can grab it different ways?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't understand.
Guest:But it was crushing to me.
Guest:You know, I mean, it wasn't like I was fighting for it.
Guest:He was more the voice that people were going to hear.
Marc:But that's interesting because that happens in every field where people get dug in, you know, and this is the way we do it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then when new kids come, they're like, fuck that.
Marc:We do it the real way.
Marc:We're hardcore.
Guest:But it wasn't like I was fighting against that.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I just was like, okay, I guess they don't like it, but I don't have a choice.
Marc:Well, yeah, but that's half the problem with the country is because these old guys are still holding us to this course that is ridiculous.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I mean, it's just the nature of... But how many of those old guys came around to your way?
Guest:I feel like most of them were just already stuck in their style.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So they stuck by that line?
Guest:Yeah, there was a pretty clear separation of generations.
Guest:And so the newer generation was all about doing all these... And they held to the line of like they still... I don't think that they wanted to.
Guest:But did they defend it still?
Guest:No.
Guest:As time went on, they... No, it was just more like...
Marc:yeah this is how we yeah this is what so i learned it when i was 12 yeah yeah now i'm 20 something and i'm i can't do that yeah it gets scary even in your 20s it gets scarier well i think it's just trying to completely revamp how you skate but that's interesting though because it's like you think of it that way because you had to understand how they did it in order to do what you did right but i imagine it's mostly fear on their on at some point
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I can't speak for him.
Guest:But I think that there are things that I see new skaters do where I think, man, if I had learned that technique growing up, it would be totally different.
Guest:And I cannot snap into that.
Guest:Like now, kids now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:Yeah, there are things that they do where I'm like.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Well, for instance, when they skate bowls and ramps and stuff, there's a trick called a disaster, which is basically on your way in, you hit the bottom of your board.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it called a disaster because you can easily hang up your trucks, and it's just a one-way trip to the bottom.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, that's why they call it disaster.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And these guys do disasters in a millisecond.
Guest:You see their board, you can tell it hits, but it's like they never stop moving.
Guest:And when I did disasters as a kid and into my 20s, I stopped up there and pondered it and then came in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's no way I can just learn how to do it quickly the way these guys have and the way that they did it from the get-go.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:That's just one example.
Guest:I'm getting into the weeds there, but I'm just, you know, that's an example.
Guest:No, but I mean, but why couldn't you just throw a switch and just do it?
Guest:I think it's because I also have the benefit of experience and fear of what can happen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And these guys have been doing it and they have this rhythm that does not concern them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:and I don't have that rhythm, and if I screw that up, I'm getting KO'd.
Guest:There's no question.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't even mess with disasters anymore.
Guest:I don't even do them slow or fast.
Guest:Well, that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Good for you.
Marc:You're able to give those up.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So now you guys are all making these trips in this dead zone of lack of popularity.
Marc:What turned it all around?
Marc:Was it the videos first?
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:A big catalyst was Back to the Future.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because the Michael J. Fox character, he does that thing where he rips off the scooter handles and rides it like a skateboard.
Guest:He presents the future to them.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then they had a couple of guys that were pro skaters doing stunt doubling who were doing jumps and ollies and things, and kids saw that, and that was their first introduction to modern skateboarding.
Guest:So they were like, this is the future.
Guest:This is the future, yeah.
Guest:And a lot of them went out and bought the exact same board he was riding.
Guest:But you guys were already doing it at that point.
Guest:We were already doing it, but it brought a whole new generation in.
Guest:And then that was their gateway.
Guest:And then as they came in, they saw what was really going on.
Guest:What was the board then?
Guest:What's that?
Guest:What was the board?
Guest:Oh, it was basically a big store.
Guest:It was called a Valterra.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was the kind of thing you'd buy at Target.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Not at a skate shop.
Guest:Bigger than a bonsai though.
Guest:Bigger than a bonsai, yeah.
Guest:I mean, it was a good entry-level board, but it was just one of those ones that's like, oh, your very first bike was a Schwinn from Costco.
Marc:So those guys were hitting the streets with those boards.
Guest:Yeah, and then, like I said, it sort of brought them in, and then they eventually got better.
Marc:But it really seems like the kind of sport, which it is now, that, you know, in order to really do the cool shit, I mean, you've got to take some risks.
Marc:And I imagine a lot of kids buy the board, and they do a couple of things, and then they just get intimidated or bored, and they put it away.
Marc:So, like, in order to find that core group of crazy-minded kids that are going to do that shit, I mean, I would imagine that's the minority.
Guest:Yes and no.
Guest:I think that some people just found a comfort zone and stuck with it because they loved the culture around it as much as they loved the skating aspect of it.
Marc:I like that in the movie, even when your dad was running those tournaments and stuff, that you're really competing against yourself and everybody was relatively supportive.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I mean, obviously, you each had issues, but it seems like whether you admitted it or not, you would all watch each other and be kind of like, whoa.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And also, in those early days, that was the only time we all got to be together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:because there were these pockets of skate scenes through the US, but not many of them.
Guest:So we would get to skate with the Texas dudes and the Florida crew, and then we're all finally together for a weekend.
Guest:So it was more like, whoa, did you see what that one dude was doing?
Marc:And feeding off each other.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Marc:And when your dad was involved with the tournaments, did you ultimately end up very close to him?
Guest:As close as I could get to a war veteran that was in the Navy that grew up during the Great Depression.
Marc:Yeah, and was also much older then.
Guest:And much older, yeah.
Guest:He just wasn't warm and fuzzy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He never said, I love you.
Guest:He wasn't like...
Guest:But I think in his eyes, he showed it through his actions.
Marc:Which was to set up the... What was his contribution to skateboarding?
Guest:He was the one who organized what became known as the National Skateboard Association.
Guest:He got all of the main companies, skate companies, to band together and to give money to put on an event.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So he was the one who was the...
Guest:The organizer of getting that, he never made any money from it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But he did get everyone to agree on a time and a place and funding and prize money and putting up banners.
Marc:What do you think drove that?
Marc:Was it primarily the fact that he knew that you were going to give your life to this no matter what and he wanted to substantiate it somehow?
Marc:Like, do he want to be like, well, I'll do everything I can to make this a business in a way or a sport.
Guest:I think it was more.
Guest:I don't think he saw it as a big picture like that.
Guest:He saw this group of of misfit kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who were good kids who had no sense of belonging anywhere else.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:And all found each other because that was my friends.
Guest:I mean, my friends were... They had Mohawks and stuff in the early 80s.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he saw that they were all good kids and they found this thing that they identified with that they...
Guest:that was an extension of themselves, but there was a community around it and he just saw it was disorganized completely.
Guest:So that was the goal for him was just like, I need a place for all these skaters to feel like they belong.
Marc:Right, because I imagine that being a guy that had been through what he'd been through and also sort of understanding discipline to a certain degree and what it meant for him
Marc:kids to have a team or to have, you know, support like that.
Marc:Because I imagine alongside of misfit kids, you're like, these kids could get into trouble.
Marc:Oh, sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And plenty did.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it was really, I mean, you know, to his credit, like I said, he was a much older generation.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he put on these events and embraced the chaos.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, as much as he was trying to organize it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was, you know, it was punk-
Guest:Blasting out the speakers and people not taking their turns and going after time.
Guest:And as much as he was trying to contain that, he enjoyed it.
Marc:Yeah, that's good.
Marc:But there was some resentment on behalf of the other competitors that you had the fix.
Marc:Oh, always.
Marc:Yeah, always.
Marc:Yeah, that was always very hard.
Marc:Because they were down on you because your dad ran things and you were winning.
Guest:And I was winning and yeah, it was like, oh, you're getting more practice.
Guest:No, I show up for my time practice.
Guest:You guys are all sleeping.
Guest:Like that was the thing is that it's not that I get more practice.
Marc:What's that?
Marc:You were driven.
Guest:Yeah, I was driven, but also like I played by the rules that were set forth.
Guest:You guys didn't wake up in time for your practice session.
Guest:And now you're trying to squeeze into the last one.
Guest:It's not my fault.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, that was the argument.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But as old men, they've all seemed to have found a lot of appreciation for your father.
Guest:Yeah, very much so.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And it seems like bygones are bygones around, you know.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So after Back to the Future, that's when the videos happen?
Guest:Yeah, that was around the same era.
Guest:And then it blows up, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, in a big way, especially late 80s, like 86 to 89.
Guest:Because those videos were like, you know, any kid could get them.
Marc:And everyone had a VHS and it was like the best thing they've ever seen in their life.
Guest:Oh, they're copying them and they're taping them together.
Guest:You know, it was awesome.
Guest:Or stealing them from skate shops.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the way to do it.
Marc:And then it became this huge thing.
Marc:Now, was that the upward trajectory to the video game and everything else?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:That era ended very abruptly around 1991.
Guest:With the BMX bikes?
Guest:Um, no, it just, again, it was the skate parks.
Guest:The skate parks, there was a whole new crop of skate parks.
Marc:Bigger ramps and things?
Guest:Yeah, but almost all of them were private, and they were built in wood, and skating fell out of fashion again.
Marc:There's rotting wood.
Guest:liability insurance was too much.
Guest:And so, and liability, it was even more litigious then.
Guest:I mean, we're talking about late 80s.
Guest:Everyone's suing everyone.
Guest:Some kid snuck into my ramp, that ramp you saw in the documentary, broke his elbow and then his dad sued me.
What?
Guest:I mean, that was the 80s.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That giant thing you built?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he went without permission.
Guest:I was in Europe.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I came home to get served papers of a lawsuit.
Guest:What happened with it?
Guest:My homeowner's insurance covered it, but then dropped me.
Marc:So it was still your responsibility somehow.
Guest:Yeah, wild.
Guest:Yeah, it was the 80s.
Guest:But you couldn't, the guy was trespassing, right?
Guest:Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Guest:But that didn't matter.
Guest:It didn't matter because I guess it's an attractive nuisance.
Guest:That's what I learned.
Marc:An attractive nuisance?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:Well, you can see it from the highway.
Guest:So the kid couldn't help himself.
Guest:Yeah, like I'm drawn to it like a magnet.
Guest:I must go drop in on the 12-foot ramp.
Marc:So it all fell apart again, and now you're what, 20 years?
Guest:I was 23, 24.
Guest:And then what happens?
Marc:What do you do with your life?
Marc:Keep making tricks?
Guest:Well, I skated the ramps as long as I could until they finally just were destroyed and weathered and I couldn't afford to resurface them, nor could I afford the property they were on.
Guest:So I refinanced my house.
Guest:And started a skate company with the equity that I pulled out of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then- That did what?
Guest:Sold it.
Guest:I sold the house.
Marc:What did the skate company do?
Guest:We got a team together.
Guest:So that's when I finally quit the Bonesbury.
Guest:I went on on my own.
Guest:I got my own team together.
Guest:Because I felt like if one thing I had through all those years was an eye for talent, the way Stacey did.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And so I put together a team that was largely considered one of the best talented teams of skateboarding.
Guest:And even though-
Guest:The industry was super small.
Guest:Sales were nominal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I thought, I'm in my 20s now.
Guest:I have to move away from being a pro skater.
Guest:And so I'm going to move into a position like Stacey did.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And what wife are you on at that point?
Marc:What's that?
Guest:Which wife are you on at that point?
Guest:Well, that's right when my first child was born.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So now you had responsibilities.
Guest:I'm married.
Guest:I have a child on the way and two mortgages, one that I can afford.
Guest:And it was like, I got to figure this out.
Guest:I got to make ends meet.
Guest:So I sold that house and just recalibrated my expenses and my way of living and did whatever I could.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what ultimately happened?
Yeah.
Marc:You're doing competitions with these guys and you're still doing competitions?
Guest:Yeah, but the competitions were few and far between with very little prize money.
Guest:I think the extent of what I was doing then, rollerblading was big right then.
Guest:Early 90s, right?
Guest:So that was the fun.
Marc:It's funny, with the bikes and with something like rollerblading, literally anyone can do either of those things.
Marc:Skateboarding, not so much.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And so it became hugely popular.
Guest:Huge, right.
Guest:But the silver lining of that was that I was still a known name in skateboarding.
Guest:So I got invited as a special guest to all these rollerblade events.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where it was like they had half pipes and they were doing the same types of stuff we were doing.
Guest:And it was like, and special guest skateboarder, Tony Hawk.
Guest:And so I actually, I kind of cruised along for about a year with that income.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I mean, I would imagine that even like that the skateboard ultimately is going to win out because people watching that, it's sort of like, well, skates are skates, but this guy's flying.
Guest:Yeah, but they were also flying.
Guest:I mean, you know, they were starting to, and that was the craze.
Guest:Okay, what are you going to do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, I was just stoked to be getting paid to skate.
Guest:That's all that mattered to me.
Guest:It was like, I still get to skate.
Marc:So you were a special guest and they were paying you.
Guest:I was a special guest.
Guest:At one point, we were doing demos in Six Flags parking lots.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:three shows a day for $100.
Marc:That's nothing.
Marc:It was something.
Guest:That paid the rent.
Marc:It was something, yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:That's a lot.
Marc:That's like paying your dues.
Marc:So then what changes, man?
Guest:X Games.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:X Games came in 95.
Guest:That's before the video?
Guest:When's the video?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So X Games came in 95, started to hit a stride around 97, 98.
Guest:But that looked like a circus to me.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Like when you guys were touring that thing, it looked crazy.
Guest:Oh, no, you're talking about Huck Jam.
Marc:That was my tour.
Guest:That was my arena tour.
Guest:That was later.
Guest:X Games was like the extreme.
Guest:So it was BMX and it was motocross and it was rollerblading and it was sky surfing and bungee jumping and rock climbing.
Guest:It was all in one thing.
Guest:But luckily, the sort of runaway...
Guest:hits or the sports that seemed to resonate were skateboarding and BMX.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we had got a big boost from that.
Guest:And I was still, I was still skating well, you know, making up tricks.
Guest:So I rode that wave.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then 97 is when I started working on a video game with Activision.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then 99, when it was a month, no, it was two months from being released, is when I had my big 900 at the X Games, which was totally spontaneous, but it was like the perfect storm.
Marc:That's when it happened for the first time?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that happened.
Guest:We were just a few months away from the release of the first game.
Guest:And so I had to email the studio, the game studio, and say, hey, you guys,
Guest:I was at X Games and I just did this trick and I feel like it would be an omission if you didn't have it in the game, even though I know you're done with it.
Guest:You have to submit games way early before release because they have to be approved by all the console manufacturers.
Guest:So they're in beta of sending it to the console manufacturers.
Guest:And I remember the same day I got an email from the president of Neversoft and he's like, we're way ahead of you, you fucking rule.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they, they put it in there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They knew you were going to get it.
Guest:They didn't know I was going to get it, but they watched it live.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And so I see.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:So they were like, we got, by the next day, they're already trying to figure out how to include this new trick in the game.
Guest:And they, they did to their credit.
Guest:Well,
Marc:I mean, I see, again, I didn't grow up gaming, but even the woman I'm with who's in her 30s, she's like, I played that game.
Guest:Everyone had that game.
Guest:Yeah, it was wild.
Guest:It turned into a massive hit.
Guest:It came with the console?
Guest:Is that how that worked?
Guest:It was first released on PlayStation.
Guest:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then went out to what was in the time, N64, Dreamcast, and then- Everything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was the life changer, the game.
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Marc:Because you had a piece of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It changed my life completely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How so?
Guest:It just gave me freedom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, but money obviously, but, but also just the, and, and the, the agency to say no.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where I was.
Marc:$300 parking lot gigs.
Guest:Dude.
Guest:I was, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I was definitely still in that mode and it was like, what do you need?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'll be a consultant on that.
Guest:I'll do this and sure.
Guest:And then, and then it was suddenly like, oh, I don't need to do that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:To make a living.
Marc:Sell yourself out for cheap.
Yeah.
Guest:Sure, or just spread myself so thin.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so that's when, I mean, I knew 99 was probably gonna be my last year competing anyway, because at that point in my life, I'd done it 20 years.
Guest:And you'd won everything.
Guest:Most of the big events, the VRT events.
Marc:And like you kept winning VRT events.
Guest:Yeah, and it was just like, it was like Rodney, like, am I gonna rot in public?
Guest:Am I gonna, you know, am I gonna burn out?
Marc:But I imagine there was a bunch of kids who were like, God damn it.
Marc:Tony's on, oh, he's gonna, fuck.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe in the VRT events.
Guest:But then the success of the video game the following year was a huge boost.
Guest:And that's when I decided to do that big arena tour.
Guest:That looked crazy.
Guest:It was crazy.
Marc:It looked like a three-wing fucking... It was.
Marc:It was wild.
Marc:And it was huge, right?
Marc:Huge success.
Marc:So you go from the video game and you make choices and then you put together this punk rock circus.
Guest:We had Devo play at two of our shows.
Guest:Flying bikes and skates.
Guest:Flying BMX, motocross and skateboarding, yeah.
Guest:I know, yeah, there were actual motorcycles going through the air.
Guest:Some of that stuff looked like three Evo Knievels all at once.
Guest:It was really crazy.
Guest:It was the choreography.
Guest:We would spend two weeks in an airplane hangar in Riverside figuring out how to time everything because it very much was, like Andy said, if you're not in the right place at the right time, a motorcycle is going to hit you.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:And he wins in that battle.
Yeah.
Guest:Did anyone get hurt?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Surprisingly, I did every show.
Guest:I mean, we did that tour for four, five summers.
Marc:And you're still getting the juice.
Marc:You're still getting off on it.
Marc:It was the best.
Guest:That was when I was definitely in the groove.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it was fun.
Marc:It was so fun.
Marc:And is that what led to the end of your first marriage?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Second.
Marc:Second, yeah.
Marc:What was it, if it's not too personal, because it definitely isn't covered in the doc, it's just all of a sudden, he's got a lot of kids and we only met this, you know.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Well, I have four of my own and then two stepkids.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But all are adult age, except for my daughter's 13.
Marc:But I know in show business and I know in certain other jobs, relationships are hard.
Marc:Is there a thread that dissolved all of them?
Guest:Was it a thing that you couldn't change?
Guest:Yeah, and I didn't want to face myself too and would obviously pass blame and whatnot and also just choices and at some point, you know,
Guest:drinking and partying and seeking attention in unhealthy ways.
Guest:And really just, but only because I wasn't willing to just accept who I was.
Marc:Well, that's the same with the boarding, right?
Marc:In a way, you know, it's like, you know, it's hard to sit with yourself, but it's easier, I guess, if you're flying and you don't have to think about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Compulsive behavior in general.
Guest:Compulsive behavior.
Guest:And it's just, at some point,
Guest:You're riding so high, you don't think of any of the fallout.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And chasing this dream that no one has even created yet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:And I have kids, and I'm not really giving them my full time.
Guest:Or if I am, I'm not really... Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like at some point through those years, I was a Disneyland dad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How bad did the booze and shit get?
Guest:It wasn't...
Guest:It was distracting.
Guest:I never let it really affect me so much that I couldn't perform.
Marc:Well, I guess that's the one benefit of being addicted to skateboarding, first and foremost, is that you don't want to do anything that's going to fuck that.
Guest:I saw my peers, how it affected them when they went hard.
Guest:Drugs and stuff, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and they lost their skills.
Guest:And so I was always very aware that, but at the same time, if we had a great show, then we're going out partying.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And that was just all nonsense.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I think you talked about it a little bit, but I kind of lost the thread in the doc.
Marc:Did you do some sort of treatment thing?
Marc:I did, yeah.
Guest:For what?
Guest:Just because I felt like I kept making those same choices and this compulsive behavior at an age when I should have this all figured out.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So what was the treatment?
Guest:Just sort of how do I deal with all of the success but be an effective father, an effective partner.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it was when Kathy and I had first started dating and I felt like I've got to figure this out.
Guest:I mean, my whole life...
Guest:Like everything I ever wished for or wanted is right here in front of me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I keep making these choices that I'm not proud of.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I need to figure out how to hone in on that and do it for, and feel good about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:And I just needed, I needed to go somewhere with no distractions.
Marc:So you got some tools together for yourself?
Guest:I did, yeah.
Marc:Some cognitive work?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I leaned into it heavily.
Guest:Well, you must be, you're a disciplined guy.
Guest:I think that was probably one of the breaking points for me or one of the epiphanies I had where it was just like, you can accomplish almost anything on a skateboard.
Guest:Accomplish this with your life that you haven't been able to figure it out for decades.
Marc:And did you find yourself experiencing, like, a lot of whatever you were holding in, the grief and all that other stuff?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, very much so.
Marc:And it kind of came out in bits and pieces?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You feel better?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It was like a...
Guest:It was like there was this release of baggage that I felt it physically.
Guest:And it was like, oh, now I have a foundation to build up something that I want to do, that I am proud of, and that I can be way more effective.
Guest:I mean, it's crazy how when you get that clarity, how much more productive you can be.
Marc:Well, I mean, when you're not running from yourself, where all your energy is not going into that innately, and you can make choices around that, I guess the threat of it is that once you find yourself grounded in yourself and you have that weight...
Marc:I imagine the thinking around doing things that are destructive that you needed to do in order to keep doing what you do, it's a different thinking.
Guest:Oh, yeah, and I can't even imagine going down that path anymore.
Guest:That's good, because, I mean, you're older.
Guest:older yeah but also i think just um i got the tools i got i got the tools to figure it out and and um support and and i mean and and my wife is she's amazing she already kind of had it figured out that's great her her own life and and um she believed in me and then that in itself was enough that's great and you were able to make it right with all the kids
Guest:I'd like to think so.
Guest:I mean, they're all, most of them are, they're all out of the house except my daughter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But three are, two are out of college.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Three are still in college.
Guest:And then my daughter is going into high school next year.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She got the best version, I guess, huh?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I don't like to dwell on that.
Marc:But yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think it was probably hardest for my oldest son because he saw all the shifting around.
Guest:He was getting shifted around himself.
Guest:But he's doing great.
Guest:He's amazing.
Marc:What's that?
Marc:You're close?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:And when you say you don't like to dwell on that, do you dwell on things?
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Guest:No.
Marc:There's no trick in your brain?
Marc:No.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I mean, I dwell on skate tricks.
Guest:That's what I mean.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Still?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's kind of sad because I was working on a video project before I got hurt.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And every thought about skating goes towards that.
Guest:Like, am I going to be able to finish that video?
Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Not, am I going to be able to get back on my skateboard?
Guest:Am I going to be able to do these basic tricks?
Guest:Am I going to be able to do something enough to make that video worthwhile?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And is it all you or you got- It's all me, yeah.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Marc:And what's the angle on the video?
Guest:Well, you saw my ramp.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You see there's a gap in the ramp.
Guest:The indoor one?
Guest:The indoor ramp.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You see there's a gap in it?
Guest:Oh, yeah, I do.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I was doing only tricks over that gap.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And a lot of- Did you go through one?
Marc:Didn't you hurt yourself on it?
Marc:I shot through the middle of it, yeah.
Guest:You would think I know where it is by now.
Guest:But yeah, there's one shot.
Marc:So it's all you using the gap?
Guest:It's all tricks over the gap, yeah.
Guest:And a lot of them are ones that I hadn't done before or tricks that I'm just learning, but I took it over the gap.
Guest:And so now it's like, I don't feel like I have enough to warrant putting out a video.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:and so i don't know how long this is going to take right or if i'm ever going to get back to well can't you just do one of those like you know kind of youtube releases or like you know it's all youtube releases all of it yeah oh yeah there's no but you can't do bits and pieces of it why because it you know i need something more complete nothing on nothing in there on its own is a standout okay it's more of a you know you're moving towards something yes exactly and
Marc:And where is skateboarding as a business now and as a sport?
Marc:It's in the Olympics.
Marc:Is it popular again?
Guest:Yeah, there's a lot more support.
Guest:There's a lot more resources.
Marc:And you helped build a lot of parks too, didn't you?
Guest:Yeah, with our foundation, the Skate Park Project.
Marc:And that's working too, still?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, we've helped fund over 900 skate parks now.
Guest:And kids are doing it.
Guest:Oh, I mean, those facilities, if you go to a skate park in daylight, it's getting used.
Guest:And you can't say that for every sports facility.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:Because it's like it's one of those beautiful things that a kid can just be like, I'm going to go.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Or early in the morning, it's dads with their little kids or moms sending their kids.
Guest:their toddler out before it's crowded.
Marc:Do you feel like you've given a gift to the world to a degree?
Marc:And do you feel like you've helped?
Marc:Is there a part of you that appreciates the service that you did?
Marc:Because it feels like you did.
Guest:That's the work I'm most proud of.
Guest:Yeah, is the skate parks.
Guest:Because that's where I found my sense of self.
Guest:was at the skate park, is where I spent most of my time when I wasn't in school.
Guest:I'd go out of school straight to the park until they closed every night.
Guest:And I found my sense of community and my sense of purpose there.
Guest:And I felt like when I finally had some success and a voice that could affect change, that's the best I could do with it, is to provide the same facilities for kids.
Guest:Not that they have to...
Guest:They're not training grounds.
Guest:It's not like we're trying to make pros.
Guest:It's more like, here's a place for everyone to gather.
Marc:Right, and do tricks.
Guest:And do this thing that you're getting kicked out of public facilities.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You don't have to jump a wall.
Guest:Yeah, or get a ticket.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, great talking to you, man.
Guest:Oh, thanks for having me.
Guest:It was fun.
Marc:Tony Hawk, that was intense.
Marc:He's intense.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:The documentary, Tony Hawk Until the Wheels Fall Off, is now available on HBO Max.
Marc:No music today.
Marc:Soon.
Marc:I've got to go shoot Reservation Dogs.
Marc:Next week.
Marc:All week.
Marc:In Oklahoma.
Marc:I've got a part.
Marc:I've got a part on the show.
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Talk to you later.