Episode 1317 - Flea
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fuck stirs?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:It's been going on a while.
Marc:Right now, I'm missing a giant tooth in the back of my head.
Marc:They pulled a tooth out of my head on Friday.
Marc:Man, it was... I don't know what they did, but it's gone.
Marc:The entire thing is gone.
Marc:I got one sad little molar in the back top right side sitting back there by himself without his buddy.
Marc:His buddy's gone.
Marc:It wasn't traumatic, but there was a bit of buzzkill.
Marc:There was a bit of buzzkill.
Marc:Maybe I'll tell you.
Marc:Why not?
Marc:Why can't I tell you?
Marc:Let me just do this so I don't space this shit out.
Marc:Flea is on the show today.
Marc:OK, he's been part of the Red Hot Chili Peppers for 40 years now.
Marc:Flea, that guy.
Marc:They got a new album coming out this week.
Marc:Some of you know he was on once before back in 2015, along with Robert Trujillo from Metallica.
Marc:But they were there mainly to talk about that documentary they made about Jaco Pastorius.
Marc:So this is really a full talk with Flea.
Marc:about flea this is actually the third shot at this i was supposed to talk to flea years ago i just remembered this i did an interview with uh tom york from radiohead when he was recording out at rick rubin's uh mansion or whatever it was one of the rick rubin properties not the malibu one but they i think they called it the houdini house but it wasn't actually the houdini house
Marc:But anyway, I get there and Flea's ill.
Marc:He's not coming that day.
Marc:And it was just me and Tom York and it worked out great.
Marc:Then the next time was that Trujillo time.
Marc:That's the other time I talked to Flea.
Marc:And I think I could get either of them on their own.
Marc:What I'm trying to say is this is the third time that it's either happened or it almost happened.
Marc:And this is a full talk with Flea.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:Also, a new batch of WTF cap mugs go on sale today.
Marc:These are the handmade mugs I give to my guests.
Marc:But if you're not a guest on my show, you can still get one directly from Brian Jones, the guy who makes them.
Marc:New mugs are on sale today at noon Eastern time at BrianRJones.com slash WTF.
Marc:They go fast.
Marc:So if you want one of those mugs, get it.
Marc:Get the mug.
Marc:So anyways, I had to get this tooth pulled.
Marc:It's not great.
Marc:And I think the antibiotics are making me nauseous.
Marc:I did a run of antibiotics when I had the COVID because the doc said I might have a sinus infection, not realizing I have to do the same ones.
Marc:Does amoxicillin make you nauseous or am I dying?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:So I go to get this tooth out.
Marc:I walk over there because they're going to drug me.
Marc:They're going to put me under.
Marc:They're going to give me an IV.
Marc:They're going to give me a drip.
Marc:They're going to knock me out.
Marc:I'd gone in once before not realizing I couldn't eat.
Marc:And they were like, you want to do it on just local?
Marc:I'm like, there's no fucking way that you're going to rip this out of my head on local.
Marc:And I'm going to experience the visuals of that.
Marc:I can't handle it.
Marc:And I can handle things.
Marc:So I walked down there.
Marc:The dentist's not far from my house.
Marc:And I'm just looking.
Marc:They bring me in.
Marc:They put me in the chair.
Marc:And the equipment that they were laying out, I made the right choice.
Marc:I had this root canal back there that had a crown on it.
Marc:And the root...
Marc:The dead tooth that was a root canal working as the post was rotting.
Marc:So I had to have that ripped out of my head and put an implant in.
Marc:So the deal was they'll rip it out of my head and then they're going to put some grafting goo in there.
Marc:And I guess in five months, they'll screw the implant in there.
Marc:Something like that.
Marc:So I'm there looking at this equipment and it's not great.
Marc:And I was prepared to die.
Marc:I was prepared to die.
Marc:I went in because I get nervous about anesthesia and I'm like, something could go wrong.
Marc:I'm nervous about my heart.
Marc:I'm about, I don't know.
Marc:This could be the accident that ends it, but at least I'll be out.
Marc:I'll be out of it when it goes down.
Marc:So I was prepared to die.
Marc:And I went there and I looked at all the equipment.
Marc:I'm like, thank God I'm going to be not awake.
Marc:So they give me the IV.
Marc:I go under, but I'm kind of a little in and out.
Marc:Like I kind of woke up a couple of times, but I didn't feel anything.
Marc:And I realized that they'd also given me local.
Marc:But damn, man, that shit is... You go out.
Marc:So then I'm up.
Marc:They did it.
Marc:I got a mouthful of gauze.
Marc:I'm in the waiting room.
Marc:Kit the cat girl comes to pick me up.
Marc:I'm sitting there in the room.
Marc:I got a good buzz on.
Marc:I got a freebie.
Marc:That's what they call it in the sobriety racket.
Marc:I got a good buzz going.
Marc:Just sitting there coming down, coming off the anesthetic.
Marc:Feeling a little loopy, but feeling relaxed.
Marc:Feeling open.
Marc:You know, feeling like...
Marc:everything's okay got a good freebie on and kids in there then the doctor comes and starts giving me instructions about what i can and can't eat about you know the medication i got to take about being careful with the hole in my mouth about how well it went but he's just talking it was all helpful stuff but in that moment i'm like dude dude you gotta gotta chill you
Marc:You just got to chill a little.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'm enjoying this.
Marc:And I've got to be honest with you.
Marc:All these instructions and things I got to do, rules and whatnot, kind of a buzzkill, Doc.
Guest:It's kind of a buzzkill.
Guest:So, you know, kids listening.
Guest:But if you don't mind, I'm going to enjoy the rest of my freebie.
Marc:And I did.
Marc:I did.
Marc:All right, so Flea is here, and he's a good guy, and I've helped him out.
Marc:I've hosted his music conservatory benefit a few years.
Marc:I don't know if I can handle it again, but it was great to hang out with him because he has been through a lot, and he's a humbled guy.
Marc:He's a humbled guy.
Marc:The Chili Peppers' new album, Unlimited Love, comes out this Friday, April 1st.
Marc:You can get it wherever you get music, and this is me talking to Flea.
Marc:Yeah, I don't miss that house, and I don't miss that neighborhood, and I don't know why.
Marc:Is it too loud?
Guest:Is it okay?
Marc:Feels good.
Marc:It feels good?
Marc:Feels good, yeah.
Marc:You know, sometimes you're just done with the place.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I'm a moving motherfucker, man.
Guest:Like, all the time.
Guest:You do?
Guest:I don't know why.
Guest:It always is like a relationship ends, something crazy happens.
Guest:It's always a fucking reason.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's like every three, four years.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What about all your shit?
Guest:My shit all goes.
Guest:It's in store.
Guest:But I just like did a move like during, I think since I last saw you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I got married.
Guest:I was already married when I last saw you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I think.
Marc:Maybe.
Guest:How long have you been married?
Guest:I've been married just over like two years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, maybe.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It would have just been right before the pandemic.
Guest:Yeah, but I think the fundraiser before that, I met my wife at.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, I met her there.
Marc:What did she do?
Marc:She's a designer.
Marc:Right, like a designer of what kind of design?
Marc:Shoes, clothes, stuff.
Marc:I think, yeah, I remember.
Marc:Yeah, I met her the last time we did it.
Marc:The last one that we did was with Eddie Vedder was there.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we were together then.
Guest:Is it second wife, third wife?
Guest:Second.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got married the first time in 1988.
Guest:Shotgun wedding.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Full on pregnant 19 year old.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was 24.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you did it.
Marc:You stepped up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I loved her.
Guest:I loved her.
Guest:And we have a 33-year-old daughter who's just the most amazing human being on the planet.
Guest:She's 33 now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Isn't that crazy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just like a ray of light, man.
Guest:Really?
Guest:What does she do?
Guest:She's a photographer.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she does lots of fashion stuff.
Guest:She does her art stuff, her own things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But she works in fashion a lot.
Guest:And she made a short film that went to Cannes or to Sundance.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A few years ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's a director and a writer and just a cool person.
Guest:Just like a kind, considerate, smart.
Marc:Do you feel like a dad or just like a dude she knows?
Marc:A dad.
Marc:You do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it doesn't.
Guest:Do you have kids?
Marc:I don't.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:But I know my relationship with my parents.
Marc:It's kind of weird.
Marc:I know they're my parents, but they're just sort of these weirdos I grew up with.
Guest:It might be like that too for her and not for me, but I was concerned that when she got older, she wouldn't be my little girl anymore, but she's still my little girl.
Marc:It happens, huh?
Guest:It happens, yeah.
Guest:Even though now we talk about Louis Benoel and social issues and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:it's but you always had a good relationship with her all the way through my teenage years were a little rough but that's just normal but i mean there was no sort of like weird like you know she didn't see you for years on end no no never yeah and you're with the mother too you're all right yeah no good like her mother's was awesome person became a rehab counselor oh yeah it's like really successful and awesome at her job in that world yeah and it's just like like profoundly uh spiritual person and helping people
Guest:Yeah, helps people.
Marc:It's interesting, like the people that, because I'm sober too, you are, but there are people that lock into it, like Bob Forrest, who are just sober wizards.
Guest:Yeah, she worked with Bob for a while.
Marc:Oh, she did?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:At his place?
Guest:No, they worked at their own place, at a different place in Pasadena.
Guest:One thing about her is that I've lent so much money to so many people in my life, and no one has ever paid me back, ever.
Ever.
Guest:Ever.
Guest:Like, I don't loan money anymore.
Guest:I'll give it to someone if I have it, if I can.
Guest:Give it to them.
Guest:You know, but I won't loan because they don't pay back and it ruins a friendship.
Marc:It does.
Marc:And it's a weird thing about that because everyone tells you that if you loan somebody money, you're not going to get it back.
Marc:Like, if it's a friend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they might mean to, but the thing is that, like, I lent her, like, you know, a substantial amount of money at one point and, like, I know she, you know, she makes, she works hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Makes a salary, not a lot of money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She gets by, you know, her and her husband.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, like,
Guest:10 years later, comes a knocking on the door.
Guest:Hey, here's that money.
Guest:I know that she got a few hundred here, a few hundred, 50, and did it and paid me back.
Marc:Well, you know, when you're sober, you got to make that shit right or else you got to apologize for it.
Guest:Yeah, you got to own up to your shit.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:You're never going to get that money back.
Marc:I feel bad about it, but I want to take responsibility for my side.
Marc:But you're never going to fucking get your money back.
Guest:Yeah, you're fucked, but I'm sorry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I own up to it.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:So that's the only kid you have?
Guest:You have other ones?
Guest:I have two kids.
Guest:I have a 16-year-old daughter as well.
Marc:So that's like a whole second shot at it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're doing it differently?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I'm better now, I think, as a human being.
Guest:But different woman, right?
Guest:Different woman and entirely different kid with a different worldview and a different time.
Guest:They're 17 years apart.
Guest:But just a beautiful kid.
Marc:And do you spend a lot of time with her?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who's the mother of that one?
Guest:Her name's Frankie.
Guest:Yeah, it's her mom.
Guest:Just her mom?
Guest:Yeah, I don't feel like I shouldn't be.
Marc:Yeah, you can't.
Marc:But you get along with her, though?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, you know, for the most part.
Guest:Yeah, we do good.
Marc:We do good.
Marc:So this new record,
Marc:I didn't realize that you guys, like you've recorded so many records with Ruben, like over and over again with that guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:The last one is the first one we haven't done with him since Blood Sugar in 1990.
Guest:The getaway.
Guest:Yeah, the getaway.
Guest:You didn't do it with him.
Guest:We did with Danger Mouse.
Marc:And how was that a different experience?
Guest:completely different in the way like the big it's really a philosophical difference yeah in that Rick and I think what makes Rick great outside of just like a you know an insult an insight and a degree of objectivity that just is born of his you know his state of being is that what Rick does and the reason that he's able to make such a very like a wildly varied
Guest:quantity of music from like the early hip hop stuff he made to Slayer to Johnny Cash to Bangles to us to Tom Petty to like you know spiritual hippie music you know like all this stuff is that he doesn't have a thing like it's not like oh here's my Rick Rubin sound and I'm Phil Spector and this is what it sounds like and this is me
Guest:He sees what the essence is of the thing that he loves.
Guest:He has to love it or he doesn't do it.
Guest:He sees what that thing is and then does his best to help you bring that thing out.
Marc:Well, I think that his thing is some sort of naturalism.
Marc:I think his thing is to not get in the way because there's a lot of stuff, especially with the stripped down stuff he does with the older artists where you're like, it's almost like jazz production where you're not putting anything on it.
Marc:You're just letting the guys be in a room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Let them be in a room.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:His thing, particularly with us, is he was the first person that let us do that.
Guest:And it was our fifth record, Blood Sugar Sex Magic, that we made with him.
Guest:And every time we had been into the studio before, we'd tense up.
Guest:It would be like, okay, now it's the studio and it's serious.
Guest:And there's this big, huge board and all these blinking lights.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You had worked with George Clinton before that, right?
Guest:Yeah, George was different.
Guest:George, we were just high.
Guest:We didn't know.
Guest:I was like, whoa, look at the knobs.
Guest:I mean, it was really fun.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:Up with Mofo party play?
Guest:No, that was freaky styley with George.
Guest:And that was a fantastic experience.
Guest:But different.
Guest:It was less organized.
Guest:Did you learn any tricks from George?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:More like little things he would say.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, little things he would say.
Guest:Like he'd have someone come in to arrange the horns.
Guest:Fred Wesley, right?
Guest:The great Fred Wesley from the JBs.
Guest:And he'd be like, Fred came in the night before to do a horn arrangement.
Guest:He goes, yeah, don't give him too much time.
Guest:As soon as he starts thinking, he's going to start doing all these incredible orchestrations.
Guest:But first thought, best thought, like that's what funk is.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Trusting your gut and just letting that flow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I know his gut is beautiful.
Guest:So just let him do the first thing that he hears, write it down, boom, record that shit tomorrow.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Things like that, you know, and like him saying, like talking about playing live, like he was like how when they first blew up, you know, when they had the mothership come out in the mid seventies and
Guest:It was like they had been playing already for years and years, touring, playing clubs, playing theaters, doing whatever they could.
Guest:And all of a sudden, they're playing these big arenas and they blew up.
Guest:And he's like, I always told everyone, just don't be intimidated by the front of the stuff that you see.
Guest:Play to the last person in the last row.
Guest:Open yourself up and think like that and let that energy flow.
Marc:Yeah, I need more of that in my life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you focus on the front row, you're going to see the one guy that's looking shitty.
Marc:And you're going to be like, oh, fuck.
Marc:Are we fucking up?
Marc:And you're literally playing for this one dude that you think you're disappointing in front of, like, what, 15,000 people?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I always have this thing where I think about the one person I'm there.
Guest:Like, you know, like playing in Minneapolis at First Avenue.
Guest:And they said, Prince is coming tonight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the whole show, all I could think about is Prince is going to like this bass line.
Guest:Or, oh, I messed up.
Guest:Prince is going to be... He's going to think I'm a... You know, I'm a funky white boy.
Guest:Oh, you know, like I'm just like... All these thoughts.
Guest:I don't even know if he came.
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:But many times with certain people, like much...
Guest:Who'd you get nervous around?
Marc:I talked to Bootsy.
Marc:It was on Zoom and the mic was kind of in and out and he's wearing his hat and his glasses on Zoom.
Guest:And I'm like, no one's going to see this, bro.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's Bootsy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's Bootsy.
Guest:I was talking to Chris Rock the other day and he was saying how he once worked with James Brown on an episode of Miami Vice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that James Brown showed up.
Guest:It was like, you know, 7 a.m.
Guest:call for Miami Voice or whatever.
Guest:Showed up in the morning, like completely gig ready, like in a full body pantsuit, like glittery, you know, thing, his hair done, like everything to like, you know, get in Miami Vice wardrobe and do whatever he was going to do.
Guest:But that was his morning outfit.
Guest:It's just, you know, it's James Brown.
Guest:James Brown and Bootsy's Bootsy.
Guest:And you know what I mean?
Guest:It's like a legacy that they take seriously.
Marc:But like outside of Bootsy and only the couple other producers, I mean, it's like all Rick Rubin stuff, man.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I'm sorry to go on such a tangent.
Guest:So the thing, the difference between Rick and someone like Danger Mouse is Rick takes the artist, wants to make them bring out the thing that they do the best that they can be and hopefully help them arrange the songs where the essence of the song, which is the thing that's magic about it, shines.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As opposed to burying it in the outro or like we might do.
Guest:Like, oh, that's cool.
Guest:We save it for the end.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Whatever it is.
Guest:Whereas Danger Mouse is more of a guy like he has a sound.
Guest:All his records sound like Danger Mouse.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And you wanted that.
Guest:We wanted to try something different.
Guest:And with the lineup he had at the time with Josh and- Klinghoffer?
Guest:Yeah, it was Josh Klinghoffer.
Guest:I talked to him.
Guest:Yeah, and Josh and Brian, Danger Mouse were close and had worked together a lot before and it just seemed like a fun way to go about it.
Marc:So what's it like being with Bruchante back?
Guest:So beautiful, man.
Guest:It's so beautiful.
Guest:It was, you know, it was difficult to make that transition, to let go of Josh, who is not only a great musician, but is like an incredibly supportive bandmate.
Guest:Yeah, good guy.
Guest:A good dude.
Guest:A dude that shows up and like, he'll like, you know, you've heard of rehearsal tape, and he'll like drive across town in the middle of the night to bring it to you because he wants you to hear that idea.
Guest:Like just a caring, supportive, like all-in dude.
Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, John, he was just born to do this, man.
Guest:He was born to do it.
Guest:To be a chili pepper?
Guest:Yes, to be the guitar player with chili peppers.
Guest:Just like the way that he functions in relationship to the rest of us, it makes, like, we're all so different than one another, but it makes every one of us be ourselves as much as we can be, and every part is taken care of.
Guest:And it's difficult, too, because we're all different.
Guest:And we see things differently and we argue and because we all bring something completely different to the table.
Marc:And it's so heavy because like musically you're a trio.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:In that way, yeah.
Marc:And so, right, just instrumentally, you know, I mean, Anthony sings.
Marc:But I mean, that's, you know, everyone's got to really show up for work.
Guest:Yeah, and show up and be a fucking hero.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And John's like, man, he's intense.
Guest:He's an unbelievably, you know...
Guest:you know, virtuosic musician as well as has an encyclopedic knowledge of music.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because since he was a little boy, if he liked somebody, like say he liked, you know, the germs or liked, like Ying-Ve Malmsteen or Steve Vai, whoever it is, he didn't just like that person and learn every single note they ever played in their lives.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He found out who they liked and found all those people, learned every note they ever played in their lives and who they liked.
Guest:It goes all the way back in history.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Like he's a studier, man.
Guest:Really?
Guest:He is a serious, diligent,
Guest:Dude, and everything that he gets into, whether it's electronic music or it's classical music or it's rock guitar playing or whatever it is, he just studies, man.
Guest:He's focused and he has the ability to...
Guest:to do it for 10 hours.
Marc:Right, but in his playing, he lets it happen.
Marc:He doesn't seem like he's insecure or acting like anybody else, really.
Marc:He seems pretty laid back in his groove.
Guest:Well, absolutely.
Guest:I think he's really come to a place, too, where he doesn't need it all in any way to prove the power.
Guest:It's like the thing of a monk playing one note, and you feel he can play 10 normal notes.
Guest:Let's say John...
Guest:is so comfortable in himself as a musician that he doesn't need to prove it.
Guest:It's all there.
Guest:His approach to this record, and he did so much on this record, like the guitar playing, all these synths and orchestrations and ideas, all the background vocals, but it comes from a really humble place.
Guest:He just wants to serve the music in the most beautiful way, and he can just play this simple liquid thing that he doesn't need to show all the things that he knows.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, the first album that I ever got of yours, it's weird because like, you know, and I hear that with John.
Marc:I mean, I understand how you guys all fit, but the first record I ever got when I was working at a coffee shop, I guess it was 19 shit.
Marc:I don't even know when that came out, but it was Uplift Mofo Party Plant.
Marc:Okay, well, that's with Hillel.
Marc:Right, I know.
Marc:And the thing about like Hillel is like that band that you guys were at that time, that seemed to set the standard, didn't it?
Marc:Like in terms of like who we were?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think, you know, from the beginning we had tapped into a thing that we loved just from our reference points growing up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, and it was from like music that was exciting us at the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Contemporary music like hip hop and the real, like we really loved, you know, English post-punk.
Guest:We really loved like the no New York kind of New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:thing that was happening at the time and the funk bands bands like the contortions and the lounge lizards and defunct and you know all of that stuff that had this like beautiful thing of like jazz and funk and r&b and hip-hop with this real noisy dissonant you know and punk rock and all of p-funk like everything that we loved
Guest:And it's really like Halal and Jack grew up loving Kiss and Aerosmith and classic rock.
Guest:I grew up hating that stuff.
Guest:I grew up loving Louis Armstrong and John Coltrane and Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie.
Guest:Because you had it in the house?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I grew up, my stepdad was a jazz musician and that was what I was around, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was from when I was a little kid and I saw my stepdad play in the living room with his jazz buddies in New York.
Guest:You know, I was just like rolling on the floor in hysterics, in a state of ecstasy at what was happening.
Guest:How old were you then?
Guest:Seven?
Guest:Where were you born?
Guest:I was born in Australia.
Marc:But you're not Australian, are you?
Guest:Well, I left when I was four.
Guest:Can you still live there?
Guest:Yeah, I still have an Australian passport.
Guest:You do?
Marc:You just keep it up to date?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:Yeah, we might have to go.
Guest:Yeah, dude.
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Marc:You got that in the back burner.
Marc:Back burner.
Marc:I'm out-ski.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So do you ever go back there though?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I do whenever I can.
Guest:My father, you know, I have a lot of family there who I don't know that well because I didn't grow up with them.
Guest:They had like a whole slew of, you know, aunts and uncles and cousins and nephews and nieces.
Marc:What's the real name?
Guest:My name is Michael Peter Balzeri.
Guest:Balzeri.
Guest:B-A-L-Z as in zebra, A-R-Y.
Guest:And it's a Hungarian name?
Guest:It is a Hungarian name, but whenever I go to Hungary, like we'll go play Budapest.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'll ask him and I'll be like, no.
Guest:But I think immigration, they had their version in Australia of Ellis Island where the name would just get fucked up in the transit.
Guest:I think it did, yeah.
Guest:But my dad, I don't know my family tree well, but my dad tracked it down to a little village in Hungary on the side.
Guest:And he just knows that when they came from Ireland and Hungary to Australia, because the potato family- Your mom's from Ireland?
Guest:No, my dad's family is from Ireland and Hungary, came to Australia.
Guest:And my mom's family's from the north of England, from Yorkshire.
Marc:So you have a good relationship with your old man?
Guest:Yeah, really good.
Guest:It's difficult when, you know, because he left when I was really young, when I was about seven.
Guest:And he left and went back to Australia.
Guest:And my mom remarried a jazz musician guy.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Who's my stepdad, who is the guy that I was around.
Marc:And that reconfigured the brains.
Guest:Totally reconfigured the brain in a way that my father worked for the Australian government.
Guest:We had to come from Australia to New York because he had a four-year assignment at the Australian consulate.
Guest:He was a straight up and down suit, briefcase to work every day on the subway, came home.
Guest:We lived in the suburbs, dinner at seven.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Set the table.
Guest:No, like real straight.
Guest:And then my mom like was like, you know, getting a wild hair, man.
Guest:She came from provincial Australia where that would have been the dream.
Guest:Your dad had a sushi thing and no cocktail parties.
Guest:Everything was solid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then my, she met, you know, she started like took off for like, I think it was the Mond, uh, Woodstock, but some jazz festival.
Guest:What's the one they had up in upstate New York where Duke Ellington did the famous, uh, Newport.
Guest:Newport Jazz Festival, saw Miles, you know, all that.
Guest:Came back in a dashiki.
Guest:She went to New York on her own?
Guest:Well, no, we went with my dad and my mom and we all went together.
Guest:But then my mom started branching out.
Guest:And anyway, she, you know, my parents split up.
Guest:My mom took off with a jazz musician.
Guest:My dad went back to Australia without us, you know, broken hearted as kids and wife.
Guest:Don, you know, my mom left him.
Guest:And, um,
Guest:But my, so then we moved from my dad in a suburban house real straight to a heroin addict, jazz musician who lived in his parents' basement.
Guest:We went there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:And that was at the point where it was like, do whatever you want.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Well, see, I'm going out in the street.
Guest:I'll be home at three in the morning.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The next day was like, hey, how you doing?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just not the greatest parenting skills.
Guest:But I'm so grateful for that, too.
Guest:Well, you survived.
Guest:I survived, one.
Guest:Two, I found myself on my own.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah, no, I get it.
Marc:But to also be inspired by that sort of where creativity and addiction are the priorities.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's the whole life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That, you know, as negative as that sounds, it is, there's a freedom to it.
Marc:It's selfish, but it enabled you to sort of figure out who you were.
Guest:I had to figure it out on my own because no one was doing it for me.
Guest:And in ways.
Marc:You got a sister too, right?
Guest:I have an older sister as well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's an awesome person.
Marc:I met her at the benefit a couple times.
Marc:We sat at the same table.
Marc:She's a character.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, she's a character.
Marc:Absolute character.
Marc:Was she drinking?
Marc:A little.
Marc:She became more of a character as the night went on.
Marc:I love my sister.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So you're doing that.
Marc:You're just out in the street.
Marc:You're eight years old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we moved to LA when I turned 11 for his music career.
Marc:And did he have one?
Guest:Very minimal.
Guest:It was like- Well, he was a jazz musician.
Guest:What was he playing?
Guest:He just wanted to play jazz.
Marc:What was he playing?
Guest:A bass.
Guest:A bright bass player.
Marc:So it really made an impact.
Guest:Yeah, no, intensely.
Guest:And I think often how much I approach music like he did.
Guest:And like in terms of my strengths and my weaknesses.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:And stuff like that.
Guest:Like how?
Guest:Like, I'm not that great of a soloist.
Guest:I'm really working on it right now, actually.
Guest:I want to get better.
Marc:You're pretty good, though.
Marc:No, thank you.
Marc:I mean, I do my best.
Marc:Where are the insecurities?
Marc:I mean, how do you define being a soloist?
Guest:I hear like Thundercat, Solo, or Mononeon, or Jocko, or the great soloists.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I never learned those patterns, those ways in around all those chord changes and stuff.
Guest:I just didn't do it.
Guest:I was more like when they were studying and learning all those cerebral parts of music, I was in a van sleeping on people's floors and Motel 6 was playing punk rock gigs.
Marc:Exactly, but you were the rhythm section, so your sensibility was different.
Guest:But I can groove like no one's business.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And my stepdad was like that.
Guest:When I look back, it's only recently dawned on me, but I remember watching him play, and he played with really great jazz guys in New York, and I'd see him play.
Guest:And he'd be playing those fast bebop bass lines, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Going, going, going for a fucking long time.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Serious man.
Guest:Hard as a bottomless pit of monster fucking groove.
Guest:Like you can't even believe it.
Guest:And I was so in awe.
Guest:Even as a little kid, I knew everyone would solo over the changes, right?
Guest:They'd play the head, then all the jazz guys take their solos.
Marc:I love the way jazz guys stand around while the other guy's playing.
Marc:Just kind of smoke a cigarette, wait it out.
Guest:Go off, get a drink, hit on whatever, read a book, anything.
Guest:But when it would have come his time to solo, he would keep that ferocity, but it would just kind of like I'd see him kind of seize up.
Guest:Choke, yeah.
Guest:It wasn't like you'd choke, it was just his approach.
Guest:He'd be like, you know what I mean?
Guest:It was cool, and I realized I kind of do the same thing.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:You think it's an insecurity?
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:Yeah, I think part of it is, I've noticed that in myself, sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm not that good at that.
Guest:Once I was playing with Ornette Coleman for a little bit.
Marc:Really?
Marc:How old was he when you were playing with him?
Guest:Towards the end of his life.
Guest:I played with him a few times over the last eight, nine years of his life.
Marc:That must have been challenging.
Marc:I mean, he's out there.
Guest:Yeah, it was beautiful.
Marc:It was an incredibly great experience.
Marc:What kind of freedom does that give you to play with Ornette Coleman?
Marc:What's the responsibility of the bass player in that situation?
Marc:Was it a trio?
Guest:No, it was a pretty big band.
Guest:He had two bass players, two drummers.
Guest:Oh, no, one drummer.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, electric bass and upright bass.
Marc:How do you approach that, though?
Marc:What are you thinking when you're playing with Ornette?
Guest:Well, the thing is, when I thought, when I got ready to play with him, his son, Donardo, who's kind of the band leader, who plays drums with him, Donardo sent me all his songs to learn.
Guest:And, you know, I know Ornette music, but so I, for months, I was learning these complicated pieces of music.
Guest:I got there, and Ornette was like...
Guest:Just play whatever you want, whatever you feel at any time.
Guest:But you were prepared.
Guest:Yeah, but just looking at him and him telling me that, I never felt so free in my life.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And playing it like I was really happy with the way I played.
Guest:Like I felt so free and so good and on top of my game and I was really connecting with the dudes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We played with the master musicians of Jijuka and Salif Keita and Patti Smith and there was this whole, all these people.
Guest:It was just so fun.
Guest:You know, really uplifting experience.
Guest:But then towards the end of his life, right before he died, he had a show at Central Park in New York and I went and played and he didn't actually play.
Guest:I didn't play with him.
Guest:I'm not sure if he got up and played or not.
Guest:but it was with his band and his son and we're practicing and all these guys you've great free jazz guys you're playing solos really like yeah and then donato was like pointing me go man i got i just seized up started playing like like i just got scared yeah you know what i mean and it's so you know it's a part of my musicianship that i'm working on developing so so but what's the process of that you're just learning the runs
Guest:Yeah, I mean for me, I'm just trying to just like I instead of just I'm just like yeah, like just someone like last night I was playing or night before I was playing soloing over what's going on by my Marvin Gaye like just plan, you know The thing that you did when you were a kid you put the record on and you
Guest:Yeah, makeup, melodies.
Marc:But initially, so your approach, once you guys moved to, well, what was the situation in the house?
Marc:How alcoholic and crazy was it?
Guest:Very much so terrifying as a kid.
Guest:He was extremely violent.
Guest:He would bash up the whole house and smash it to smithereens.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:He would just lose it.
Guest:The cops would come.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:So you're in bed.
Marc:You don't know what's going to happen ever.
Guest:Don't know.
Guest:Yeah, like I used to sleep in the backyard and stuff because I just didn't know.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, is he going to lose it tonight?
Guest:It seems a little testy.
Marc:Did he beat you up?
Guest:No, he didn't.
Marc:Oh, so he abused the house?
Guest:He never did that.
Guest:Not the people?
Guest:He, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think that, you know, or himself, or I don't know if he ever hit my mom or not.
Guest:I'm not really sure.
Guest:I feel like it's not really my place to talk about that stuff and other people, but it was scary.
Guest:And then he got sober.
Guest:He did?
Guest:He got sober, yeah.
Guest:He got sober.
Guest:And stayed sober?
Guest:Yeah, well, he got sober.
Marc:When you got to LA or when?
Guest:No, years and years after that.
Guest:We moved to LA in 72.
Guest:He got sober in like,
Guest:1980?
Marc:Were you part of that?
Guest:Yeah, I would go.
Guest:They made me go to Alateen.
Guest:Oh, so you- I would go to Alateen.
Guest:Yeah, I got kind of roped into it, and I would go and bring him his cake when he had his year thing.
Marc:When did you start using?
Guest:I started getting high when I was 11.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Weed?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Weed at first, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Weed and acid.
Marc:That was when you got here?
Marc:You're in L.A.
Marc:already.
Marc:So you moved to L.A.
Marc:from New York, and your stepdad's here for work.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, yeah, for like a fresh start kind of thing.
Guest:You know, it's like when you're a drug addict, there's always a fresh start somewhere.
Marc:You know a guy out in California who's going to get you the gig?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And did he integrate into the scene out here or what?
Guest:He did somewhat.
Guest:That's a tough scene, man.
Marc:It's a small scene, right?
Guest:At that time?
Guest:I think for jazz at that time as well, I think that for people like him- Was it like 72?
Guest:Yeah, 72.
Guest:We came to LA November 14th, 1972.
Guest:And I think for jazz musicians at that time who grew up
Guest:you know, like in the 40s and the 50s and the 60s, like admiring the jazz bebop greats.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like just like in studying and learning this extremely sophisticated music, you know?
Guest:And then come like the 70s, no one gave a shit, man.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Things were shifting.
Marc:They barely gave a shit then, but it had a lot more tension.
Guest:It had tension and it also had like... Well, people paid attention to it.
Guest:Yeah, tension and attention.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And it was like a rich bohemian culture that really loved it.
Guest:Come the 70s, it was like...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, unless you're a very select few, it was really hard to make any kind of a living.
Marc:And also fusion came.
Guest:Fusion came.
Guest:And like many like him, they really like kind of became bitter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like angry at the rock musicians.
Guest:Should they see these guys who couldn't play at all who are making billions of dollars?
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And didn't they get bitter about fusion too?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I'm sure.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I can't remember him.
Guest:But it was definitely looked down their nose at everything except their thing to their detriment.
Guest:Because the thing is, the guys who were really great, who embraced everything, had a chance of really reaching out and touching.
Guest:And he was like many.
Guest:It's substance abuse problem, jazz musician who no one... And he's doing holiday in lounges.
Guest:And remember, he got the Princess Cruises gig, playing for the Ink Spots.
Marc:he was playing with the version of the ink spots that must have just I can't imagine that that gig like those kind of gigs I see it in comedy or any kind of art form like you have to rationalize that how do you not stay bitter yeah the thing is he was happy to get work okay you know what I mean because like he worked fixed cars in the backyard my mom worked as a legal secretary car guy huh
Guest:Yeah, he knew how to fix cars.
Guest:He was mechanical.
Guest:Okay, so now you're in L.A.
Guest:Are you running the streets?
Guest:Like wild.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:From when I got to L.A.
Marc:Smoking weed, doing acid at 11?
Guest:Smoking weed.
Guest:Yeah, I don't think I first did acid until I was...
Guest:15 with Anthony, when I met Anthony.
Marc:How's he doing?
Guest:He's good, man.
Guest:He's good.
Guest:He's real focused on our thing right now.
Guest:We made this double record and we're psyched.
Marc:I know the record is great.
Marc:It sounds like a little bit of everything you all do.
Marc:It feels like a career record.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Like, you know, like, you know, we've done all this stuff and we can do all this stuff.
Marc:And this is the evolution of all of this stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just for us feeling like we just got into a room and we're ourselves at the best that we could be encouraging one another, just the best that we are.
Guest:Like that's us.
Guest:I can't say, like, put this record out.
Guest:I can't say, well, you know, we did good at this, but we kind of like, no, this is as good as we are.
Guest:Yeah, you have to do that.
Guest:You know, we record it live in a room, live to tape.
Guest:Oh, you did?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:We record live to tape.
Guest:You know, we overdub and stuff afterwards, of course.
Marc:Is that the Rubin way or did you do all your records like that?
Marc:I mean, did you?
Guest:Rubin's been very good with it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But he also knows it's more convenient and easier to do stuff in computers in a lot of ways and sending files around and whatnot.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But, man, we just, we like that sound.
Guest:John, like, is very into the way things sounds.
Guest:It has, like, his ear is like, you know, like a dog can hear someone whistling a mile away.
Marc:So, you guys are in your own little areas in the studio playing live together?
Guest:Yeah, we're all in the room together.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We're just baffled off the amps.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, okay, right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And we're all in the room together jamming.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:And try to leave room for a lot of improvisation.
Guest:And it's just the feeling that we aspire to.
Marc:And that stuck?
Marc:The improvisation stuck?
Marc:You can hear them on the record?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Always.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Always with us.
Guest:The last record had the least of it ever.
Guest:Because a lot we did with Danger Mouse, we looped drums over and up on top, tried doing it a different way.
Guest:And it has its positive things.
Guest:There's nothing wrong with making music like that.
Guest:It's just different.
Marc:When did the music start really becoming a part of your life?
Marc:Was it when you were 15?
Marc:What did you start with?
Marc:I read some stuff.
Marc:I know some things, but I'd rather you tell me.
Guest:Well, when I first heard my stepdad play jazz when I was a little kid, I was deeply moved.
Guest:I was taught, okay, here's a magic that exists that is up and beyond anything I've ever seen in my life.
Guest:Jazz.
Guest:Jazz.
Marc:It is kind of like that because it's weird because I listen to it and I'm trying to, over the last five or six years, I've gotten into it as best I can.
Marc:I don't know everybody, but it is something that if you have an ear for it and you do connect with it, it just continues to evolve with you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The same record.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I can listen to, you know, the Miles.
Marc:Kind of Blue?
Marc:No.
Marc:The one with Herbie, the first one.
Marc:In a silent way.
Marc:In a silent way.
Marc:Like, I can listen to that fucking over and over again and just be like, what the fuck?
Guest:Yeah, dude.
Guest:This morning, I listened to Kinda Blue.
Guest:I was doing my morning exercise.
Guest:I listened to Kinda Blue.
Guest:And I've listened to that album probably more than any album in my whole life.
Guest:It's my comfort record.
Guest:And I just got this new pressing of it.
Guest:There's these guys that make these real high-fidelity pressings.
Guest:They got old master tapes.
Guest:What label is that?
Guest:I can't remember what it's called.
Guest:It's like O-H-R-U or something.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I know those guys.
Guest:Yeah, they make these real high-quality pressings.
Guest:Sometimes I like the old ones.
Guest:It's easier.
Guest:I'm used to listening to it the old way.
Guest:But I put it on this morning and I was just like in awe.
Guest:And I've listened to this record a thousand times.
Guest:I know every note.
Guest:And I was just like sitting there like, you know, doing my sit-ups and shit and just like, oh my God, it's so beautiful.
Guest:Like Bill Evans, his piano playing.
Guest:Oh, I just started getting really into him, man.
Marc:Dude.
Guest:What the fuck is that?
Guest:What the fuck, you know?
Guest:And his relationship with Miles, I think, is really beautiful.
Guest:And his liner notes, just his liner notes.
Guest:You ever read his liner notes on Kind of Blue?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, like he likens that kind of improvisation to those Japanese painters who paint on that really delicate rice paper.
Guest:And if you make one mistake, the whole thing, that's it.
Guest:It's done.
Marc:He learned a lot from Miles.
Marc:Yeah, Miles, man.
Marc:Did you ever meet that guy?
Guest:I never did meet Miles now.
Marc:Because I just bought a bunch of Bill Evans.
Marc:I lock in and I just start getting the Bill Evans thing.
Marc:And also the fact that he was on the nod for a lot of that shit.
Marc:Was he?
Guest:I don't even know that part.
Marc:He was strung out, like the rest of them.
Marc:But I start to feel that.
Marc:Because there are dudes that are either going to get lost in the shit because they just get lost in the shit, or it's facilitated by dope.
Marc:And I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it happens.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, certainly, look, we all know, you know, heroin is a soul sucking will steal all of your juice and leave you a fucking mess for the rest of your life.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But they're like anything.
Guest:There's a reason why people kill themselves for it.
Marc:Well, there's a relationship with it that is never going to end well, but sometimes at the beginning and for a few years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, and look, don't do heroin, kids.
Guest:But they had that living in that bubble, blocking everything else out, completely lost in the music where nothing else exists in the planet.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:It would be better to get there by, you know, doing your Zen meditation and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, we can't pretend like that didn't age at certain times.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know.
Marc:But so you're listening to that today and you hear something new every time.
Marc:Every time.
Marc:But when you were a kid, even though that was your inspiration, you didn't pursue it.
Guest:Well, no, I did.
Guest:As a youngster, I wanted just to be a jazz trumpet player.
Guest:And I was a little wild.
Guest:I probably didn't practice enough and stuff, but I had a natural thing on the trumpet.
Guest:I could make a beautiful sound.
Guest:And just when I was kind of getting to the point where it would have been, I would have started ramping up because I would have gone somewhere to just work on that.
Guest:Right at that point, I met Halal Slovak with Anthony.
Guest:We became best friends.
Guest:So you met him after Anthony?
Guest:Yeah, after Anthony.
Guest:I met Anthony when I was 15, and I think when we were 16, we were out hitchhiking in North Hollywood one day, and Hillel came driving by, and his Datsun B-210 listening to Rush.
Guest:I had a B-210.
Guest:Yeah, okay, awesome.
Marc:Was it olive green?
Marc:In my first note, it was kind of weird shit brown.
Guest:I know that color.
Guest:It was my first car.
Guest:It was the only car any of us had ever.
Guest:He was like, oh, he's got a car and a tape deck and he's cranking La Via Strangiata and picked us up.
Guest:And we became best friends.
Guest:And then months later, he was in a rock band called Anthem in high school.
Guest:And he didn't like the bass player.
Guest:And months later, he was like, why don't you learn to play the bass and play.
Guest:And I didn't like rock music at all.
Guest:Because I just thought, look,
Guest:Rock music is for dumb people.
Guest:Let's face it.
Guest:It's for people who care about haircuts more than music.
Marc:But did you get that from your stepdad?
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:All the way.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And when I was little, I didn't.
Guest:At first, it was just all music.
Guest:Charlie Parker, the Beatles.
Guest:It was music.
Guest:It was beautiful.
Guest:But I'd gone that, and I was a trumpet player.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:And you're 15.
Guest:I'm 15.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then I'd started going to like go by his rehearsals.
Guest:They're playing in the fence.
Guest:I was like, God, they just do it with no teachers around and they play stuff and they're really having fun of that cool.
Guest:Were the girls hanging around?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, there's girls that like the band and stuff.
Guest:And he was like, look, you know, Todd, the bass player, Todd Strassman, he was like, dude, Todd's not serious about it.
Guest:Doesn't really want to do this.
Guest:He's not ready to give his life to it.
Guest:We're 15.
Guest:Eddie's like, why don't you learn to play the bass and be in a band?
Guest:And I remember just sitting there feeling more than anything loved.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:Because I was always kind of a weird outcast kid.
Guest:I'd have one best friend and that was it.
Marc:That was Anthony?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was Anthony, yeah, but I was like that in New York, too, when I was a kid.
Marc:Well, that's the weird thing about growing up around the sickness of whatever selfishness that parents are like, is that there's an awkwardness to it.
Marc:I always felt kind of awkward and weird, and you just latch onto people in an overcommitted way.
Marc:It was really always exhausting, I think, to be my friend, the one friend.
Guest:Totally, yeah.
Guest:Then you get older, and you're just married.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Yeah, you know, hey.
Guest:you know latch on and then you don't know what to do once you're there then you're like don't touch me though yeah exactly and then you exhaust them and they go away yeah and you deal with your trauma you know what i mean and hopefully you feel it enough to like evolve through it you know no shit yeah that could take a lifetime dude yeah you know yeah talk to me yeah um so you're there with so you found your guys
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:So, I started playing bass with Hillel.
Guest:But would you just pick up bass?
Guest:I literally just picked it up.
Guest:Two weeks later, I was on stage at Ghazari's on the Sunset Strip playing a gig.
Guest:Two weeks later.
Marc:Who's bass?
Marc:Your dad?
Marc:I got one.
Marc:Oh, you just bought one?
Guest:No, I borrowed one.
Guest:I think the first one, I borrowed one from my friend Tree, who I started the music school with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His father had a bass.
Guest:His father played in Sha Na Na.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Like a later version of Sha Na Na, like the Bowser spot or whatever.
Guest:And had a bass or a guild bass.
Guest:And I'm pretty sure that was the first one.
Guest:And I just kind of went by the numbers.
Guest:Don, don, don, don, don, don, don.
Guest:Hey there, baby.
Guest:Have you heard the news?
Guest:One way woman.
Guest:One way woman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was it, man.
Guest:And then, you know, that changed my life.
Marc:And you stayed on the bass.
Marc:I stayed on the bass.
Guest:So I didn't go into being a jazz trumpet player at that point.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was the beginning of it.
Marc:So you were almost, what, entirely self-taught in that way?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:On the bass.
Guest:Never had a lesson.
Guest:Had one lesson.
Guest:With who?
Guest:A guy at the music school on Fairfax.
Guest:I went in, and I remember he gave me the sheet music to take it easy by the Eagles.
Guest:And it was like, you know, I want you to learn this.
Guest:And I just didn't do it.
Guest:I just, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when I started liking rock music, I just went right to, like, Hendrix was... That was it.
Guest:You know, I like Hendrix.
Marc:Did Hillel turn you on to Hendrix?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Because, like, what I was going to say, like, at the beginning of all this was that there was something about...
Marc:specifically for me for some reason uh you know that the song was it behind the sun behind the sun yeah yeah those riffs that's a hello riff i know so like but i feel that come like there's some spirit of that that goes all the way through man yeah thank you do you absolutely
Marc:Yeah, I mean because there's the the funky stuff But then like all like it feels like all the sort of the stuff that's more psychedelic or more kind of, you know Lyrical in that way musically it kind of comes from that like, you know Look when when John joined the chili peppers.
Guest:He was 17 years old.
Guest:We're like eight nine years older than John the rest of us and and
Guest:He had seen the Chili Peppers numerous times as like a 15-year-old or 14-year-old, 16, I can't, but right in there.
Guest:And he loved it and he loved Talal.
Guest:And Chili Peppers became his favorite band.
Guest:And then we met him and he was just this unbelievably...
Guest:that we couldn't even believe how capable he was and how focused and diligent and hard working.
Marc:Now, what happens with all that?
Marc:Because I know there was a lot of people coming in and out of bands.
Marc:You were in other bands.
Marc:You played with Fear for a while before the Chili Peppers.
Guest:Yeah, I left.
Guest:Anthem changed its name to What Is This?
Guest:And then we were the new originals.
Guest:No, Anthem changed its name to What Is This?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it became like more new wave, kind of prog rock, new wave.
Guest:Because what year is that?
Guest:That's like 1981.
Guest:So punk is sort of happening still?
Guest:Punk is happening.
Guest:And we were like decidedly not punk.
Guest:We were like prog rock.
Guest:And you were in LA.
Guest:But I started loving punk a lot.
Guest:Because this is where it happened.
Guest:Yeah, this is where it happened.
Guest:And you were a kid in the middle of it?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then one night I saw Fear play.
Guest:I dosed myself with a hit of acid, went to the club lingerie, saw Fear Play, and was blown away.
Guest:I mean, there were such great musicians, those guys.
Guest:Philo and Spit.
Guest:And I saw them play, and I was just like, man, next day I was like, oh, I saw The Greatest Show.
Guest:You wouldn't even believe it.
Guest:The way the guy's hands dance on the strings.
Guest:The drums.
Guest:He was playing his beat in 5-4 on oil cans.
Guest:It was insane.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And then...
Guest:And then literally like five days later, I'm looking at the LA Weekly like I did every day to see who's playing and where am I going at night because I went out every single night to see bands play.
Guest:And I see a thing, fear looking for a new bass player.
Marc:Get out of here.
Guest:Hello?
Guest:I'll be there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they hired me.
Guest:And I was a kid.
Guest:I was like, I was...
Guest:18, 19?
Marc:So you're learning on the job.
Guest:Yeah, but I'd already kind of got proficient at the base, playing with Is This, and they hired me.
Guest:And I left with Is This and started playing with them.
Guest:And I was with them for about a year, and while I was with them, started the Chili Peppers.
Marc:Now, who are the bands that you're seeing all the time?
Marc:How is your brain expanding around?
Marc:Because all the LA punk bands are happening.
Guest:Yeah, I saw every single one of them.
Guest:Yeah, and you knew them?
Guest:Sometimes.
Guest:I knew some.
Guest:Later, when Chili Peppers started, I started knowing people.
Marc:Who did you go to see the most?
Marc:Who were the ones where you're like, you can't fucking miss it?
Marc:X. Oh, yeah.
Guest:i loved x i still love that nobody sounds like them dude they do not get the the credit they deserve it's really a local phenomenon and it's sad because the first three records oh my god the first three records are phenomenal records and like i was seeing this thing the other day like it was on actually on sports talk radio i listen to sports talk radio and they're talking about what record is the most la record of all time
Guest:And, you know, they got The Doors, they got N.W.A., they got Dr. Dre.
Guest:And I'm just sitting there in the car going, the greatest L.A.
Guest:music of all time is X. Period.
Guest:And that's no denying the greatness of Dr. Dre or The Doors or Jim Morrison.
Guest:You know, those guys are great.
Guest:I love those records.
Guest:But from my experience, for me walking down the street as a kid with nothing in my pocket, thinking how I'm going to steal some food, it was X. Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I listened to those first few records recently.
Marc:And the thing about it is it's like they're this strange kind of specifically American music that they wrenched out of the ether on their own and nothing sounds like it.
Guest:And the lyrics are so poetic.
Guest:yeah those harmonies dude the way they sing together yeah everyone always made fun of vaccine's voice like I remember like what yeah it's the most beautiful thing I've ever heard and her like John Doe with like a classic tenor like the two of them together those harmonies the way it went so good I just saw them like six like six months ago
Marc:No, man, I haven't seen him in a long time.
Marc:I saw him in Orange County.
Marc:We went to an outdoor thing in the middle of COVID, me and my friend Dan, and they were great.
Marc:They played with the Blasters.
Marc:Who played guitar?
Guest:Oh, Billy Zoom's playing Rex.
Guest:Billy Zoom's playing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He just sits down.
Marc:Right.
Guest:He sits down and smiles.
Guest:Man, he's incredible.
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:So I saw them play the star everywhere they played.
Guest:I saw them constantly.
Guest:But, you know, I would see everyone that played.
Guest:That's the ones that I saw the most.
Guest:Like if I could get in, I went.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it was a hustle to get in, you know.
Marc:But next wasn't really, would you call that, because there was weirder, looser, more raw punk going on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, like all the bands like Youth Brigade and Channel 3 and Red Scare and, you know, Black Flag.
Guest:I never saw the germs.
Guest:I never saw the weirdos.
Guest:Well, later I saw the weirdos.
Guest:Um, but like at that time when I came in, it was kind of late.
Guest:Like that first wave of LA punk, like the great bands, like the germs, they were already done.
Guest:Um, but then when I, when the chili pepper started and we started, you know, like from the get go, we, we, you know, we became in a very underground way, popular in Los Angeles, um, in 1983.
Guest:Um, then I became, you know, got to know a lot of those people and was really happy about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So let's go over these shifts in the lineup over the years.
Marc:So when did you finally end up on the lineup that sort of lasted with Chad on drums?
Marc:You had other drummers, right?
Guest:Okay, so we start off, it's me, Anthony, Hillel, and Jack.
Guest:Play our first ever show, no rehearsal, go play one song.
Guest:We had one song, we played one song.
Guest:Went crazy, had a spiritual awakening.
Guest:The whole universe zeitgeisted together into this thing.
Guest:And we knew it.
Guest:And then at that point, that became the focus of my life.
Guest:So then we had that.
Guest:Then before we made our first record, Jack and Halal were still playing in What Is This, the band that I had left, the high school band.
Guest:They both left.
Guest:We got Cliff Martinez and Drum, who had played in The Weirdos of Dickies and Captain Beefheart.
Guest:And Jack Sherman on guitar.
Marc:Yeah, who was- And still you and Anthony.
Guest:And me and Anthony.
Guest:Always me and Anthony.
Guest:And then we made the first record with them.
Guest:We went and did the first tour, first record.
Guest:Second record, Halal wanted to come back, so we said goodbye to Jack Sherman.
Guest:We brought Halal back.
Guest:How much drama with all these?
Guest:Every time drama.
Guest:Every time I say one of those things, it's like me up dry heaving for days, puking with stress.
Guest:Even when I really knew it was the right thing to do, always.
Guest:Hard, man.
Guest:You play with someone, it's like vulnerable, connected experience, even when you're really struggling with them.
Guest:It is, you know, because you're always yearning and reaching for this thing, you know?
Guest:But so then we make the second record, Freaky Styli, with Cliff Martinez on drums and Hillel.
Guest:After that, that was with George Clinton in Detroit at United Sound.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:Wild time.
Guest:And then I went and lived with George for months on end, and it was just wild.
Guest:The first night I'm sleeping, George lived on a farm in Clinton, Michigan.
Guest:I'm lying there, I'm asleep at night, and I'm at Dr. Frankenstein's house, sleeping on the floor in a sleeping bag.
Guest:In the middle of the morning, like crack of dawn, I hear like a gun.
Guest:I'm like, what the fuck?
Guest:I look up, I see George in his underwear,
Guest:He has his own colored braids and shit up with a gun, running for the outside.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, oh my fucking God, what's going on?
Guest:And he was going out to shoot a deer.
Guest:He saw a deer and he was into hunting and eating wild game.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, it was just wild.
Guest:Did he get it?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:But he was hunting.
Guest:He was really into hunting and eating.
Marc:In his underwear in the morning.
Guest:He saw one and he was like, I'm going to go get that motherfucker.
Guest:He was up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then make Freaky Stiley.
Guest:We tore Freaky Stiley.
Guest:Then after that...
Guest:Jack wanted to come back, Hallel leaves, Jack comes back.
Guest:So we have the original lineup.
Guest:I mean, Cliff leaves, Jack comes back.
Guest:Cliff went on to have a great career making soundtracks in all the Steven Soderbergh films, Oscar nominee, great, awesome dude, and he's a great, I love Cliff.
Guest:So then we have the original lineup back for the third album, and then after the third album, which is Uplift Mofo Party Plan with that lineup, we go do on tour, we get back, Hallel overdosed and died.
Guest:Now, was everybody strung out?
Guest:Mostly like Halal and Anthony went back and forth between being strung out.
Guest:Yeah, but that wasn't your bag, that drug?
Guest:I mean, it was.
Guest:I just never got strung out.
Guest:I like this stuff.
Guest:I never like something in me always stopped me from going all the way.
Guest:You know, like I do heroin all the time.
Guest:I did it, but I was always like, and I wake up the next day to feel too shitty to play basketball or do stuff that I love to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I wouldn't do it again.
Marc:Sweaty and queasy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then like 10 days later, I'd be like, never again.
Guest:You know?
Guest:And then like 10 days later, I'd be drunk out of the bar.
Guest:And like someone would give me a line of blow.
Guest:And the next thing you know, I'd do it again.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I think I mean, like once I did it two days in a row.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:So you really could just chip.
Guest:I chipped.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So Halal died.
Guest:And that was devastating.
Marc:I can't imagine.
Guest:Absolutely fucking devastating.
Marc:How old was he?
Marc:22?
Marc:22?
Guest:Fuck, man.
Guest:26, I think.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And a beautiful guy.
Guest:I still have these paintings he made and stuff that he gave me for my birthday.
Guest:He made these beautiful paintings, Mark.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So sensitive and gorgeous.
Guest:I have this one of this naked woman lying on a blanket with a cat curled up by her hips.
Guest:And he just did this all the time.
Guest:He was just this beautiful guy.
Guest:That's so sad, man.
Guest:Yeah, you know, it's the torturedness of the pain that makes kids, you know, we didn't know yet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, didn't get to the point of figuring it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we lost Hillel.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which was hard for all of us.
Guest:And then Jack, who had started playing music on the exact same day as Hillel.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When they were kids and after they had a Kiss cover band dressed up like Kiss.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hillel, Jack was heartbroken and left the band.
Marc:Just couldn't handle it.
Guest:Too much.
Marc:Did he quit music?
Guest:No, he ended up being a drummer in Pearl Jam, and he played with Joe Strummer, and he did stuff, yeah.
Marc:Still around?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, still around, still around, still my friend.
Guest:Yeah, actually on our last tour for our last record, he toured with us as a one-man act, one-man show.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, he makes these crazy psychedelic movies behind him, plays drums and just tapes.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah, he's a wild man.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jack Irons.
Guest:And then so then we go to make mother's milk.
Guest:First, we got Chad.
Marc:Where'd you get him?
Marc:Because he seems like, you know.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Before we got Chad, we had D.H.
Guest:Peligro.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh yeah, I know D.H.
Guest:Yeah, D.H.
Guest:who played him in Dead Kennedys.
Guest:From Dead Kennedys, yeah.
Guest:And then we hired on guitar Blackbird McKnight from Funkadelic.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:He was a friend of mine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so we had D.H.
Guest:and- That's interesting, huh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it just didn't, the reference points and stuff just didn't work out.
Guest:Just whatever, chemistry stuff.
Marc:And so- On the musical side.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then Blackbird left and we, and no, while we had Blackbird and then I met John.
Guest:And I was like, damn, I remember calling up Anthony.
Guest:He was drying out up in Michigan.
Guest:I was like, dude, I met this kid.
Guest:The guy jammed DH.
Guest:He said, you should come jam with my friend John.
Guest:This kid's kid.
Guest:He can fucking rip.
Guest:DH introduced you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:DH introduced me.
Guest:They had been jamming.
Guest:And I went and jammed with John.
Guest:I was like, holy fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Holy fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This kid is good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like scintillating.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not just show off, even though he was, he was a kid, but like, damn.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:All strats, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, at the time he didn't play a strata, he had some, I don't know what it was, he had naked ladies all over it.
Guest:Like some kind of modern kind of guitar.
Guest:And I called Anthony, and Anthony came back, and then John Thelonious Monster picked him up, our friends, Bob.
Guest:Yeah, Bob, yeah.
Guest:He played with Thelonious Monster, Bob and Pete.
Guest:And then Anthony saw him play a monster and was like, we gotta get that kid, and I was like, right?
Guest:And so we let go of Blackbird, we got John, and then we did a little tour with John and D.H.,
Guest:And then DH, bless his heart, was dealing with some substance abuse shit.
Guest:And it was just, you know, not working out.
Guest:And so we met Chad, who Denise Zoom, who called Denise Zoom because she was married to Billy Zoom of X for some time, told us, I know a guy who eats drums for breakfast.
Guest:And that was Chad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we met Chad.
Marc:He seems like he eats drums for breakfast.
Guest:Yeah, and he does eat drums for breakfast.
Guest:We met Chad, and then we made Mother's Milk with Michael Beinhorn, who had also produced Uplift Mofo Party Plan, who we liked because he was in Material, the band with Bill Aswell, that we really liked a lot.
Marc:And Mother's Milk was the first big record, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we hadn't really connected.
Guest:I feel like John hadn't really come into his own yet.
Guest:He was still trying to fit in as opposed to just letting his magic fly.
Guest:But we made a record and we did a cover of Stevie Wonder's Higher Ground that got us our first... Who taught you how to do that if you didn't take any lessons?
Guest:I just did it, man.
Guest:You heard how to slap that shit by yourself?
Guest:Just did it on my own.
Marc:No one said like this, just do your hand.
Guest:No one ever showed me.
Guest:Oh, I remember seeing this kid at Fairfax High named Ray.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when I was playing an anthem at school, we were like the white rock band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was a black funk band called Star.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was like the two bands at school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Ray played in Star.
Guest:And I saw Ray one time at lunchtime sitting there with a bass thumping.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, whoa, because Halala just taught me, you go like that, like you're walking with your fingers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was all I knew, walk.
Guest:yeah yeah you know to play and i saw him stopping and i just saw him do it and i was like whoa what the fuck is that he kind of showed me yeah but i i didn't and then like a year or so later i just tried to figure it out and it kind of made my own way yeah i still do it my own weird way different than other people do it yeah that's okay popping and thumping man yeah popping and thumping that must have been exciting
Guest:Yeah, it was really fun.
Guest:And when I started, like, it was when we, right before we did the, when the Chili Peppers got together, I just kind of found this way of doing it that was really my own way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:And it was like all those early Chili Peppers songs, Black Eyed Blonde, Get Up and Jump, Skinny Sweaty Man, all these real fast...
Guest:like a drum, you know?
Guest:It was like that funky thing, but with punk rock energy that I loved, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, right.
Guest:And just that's when we, you know, we found this sound.
Marc:So with different drummers, I mean, the rhythm section is a rhythm section, but you got on with, okay, with DH.
Marc:Love DH.
Marc:Yeah, as a rhythm section.
Marc:So with Chad, did you guys just lock in?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or did you learn from each other?
Guest:We learned from each other.
Guest:At first for Chad, I was a little worried because he was a real rock dude.
Guest:Like super rock, like John Bonham school.
Guest:He hit that bar drums harder and more steady and more ferociously with more chops than anyone I'd ever played with.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like a fucking monster.
Marc:No jazz though.
Guest:Well, it wasn't, I don't know if a jazz thing.
Guest:And he knew like Detroit funk.
Guest:He was a Detroit dude.
Guest:So he could swing.
Guest:He could swing and he had groove.
Guest:We just had like our arty thing.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like I was saying before, we're really into like defunct.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And the contortions.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Gang of Four, Echo and the Bunnymen, Susie and the Banshees.
Guest:We like this arty kind of music.
Guest:Bill Laswell, like Robert Fripp.
Marc:Fripp.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Not Crimson Fripp, but Fripp Fripp.
Guest:Yeah, all of it.
Guest:All of it.
Guest:But Chad had played like hair metal.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But it was incredible.
Guest:But the thing is, the ferocity with which he played was undeniable.
Marc:But so it's like some sort of serendipitous miracle.
Marc:It was.
Marc:Because you have these ulterior, not ulterior, but different forces
Marc:But the alchemy of it made you the modern Chili Peppers.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And he bought us in a way, like in his power and his sensibility, bought us from something that probably would have been...
Marc:less open to the whole world right you know what I mean like he opened it up with that big open beats well that's the drums man it's like I talked to Billy Gibbons and you know when because those records later the the the bearded ZZ Top records which aren't my favorite I'm like how'd that happen and he he said our manager said girls can't dance to this shit that you're doing
Guest:So figure it out.
Guest:And that's where you get that.
Guest:And drummers too.
Guest:Look at the Clash without Topper Heading.
Guest:I love the fucking Clash, dude.
Guest:One of my favorite rock bands of all time.
Guest:But without Topper Heading, when they get the other dude, it's just not as good.
Guest:Look at R.E.M.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:The drummers are very important.
Guest:It's so important.
Guest:And we've been lucky to have great ones.
Guest:Really lucky.
Guest:Jack Iron's a great drummer.
Guest:Cliff Martinez, nothing like him.
Marc:Yeah, because I listened to when they reissued that Get Your Yaya's Out That Stones record.
Marc:It was an Abco reissue.
Marc:And I never really realized just without Bill and Charlie, that band just falls apart.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Dude.
Guest:All of a sudden you have these guys that are really good.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Solid.
Guest:They go and get really good musicians who do their job well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like great guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's not like someone just being themselves.
Guest:The thing about a lot of these guys is...
Guest:what they do is all they know how to do.
Guest:That's good, though.
Guest:And that's great.
Guest:That's what makes a thing work.
Guest:It's like you do your thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The restraint is a powerful and underappreciated thing in music.
Guest:But straight by circumstance.
Guest:You can't do anything else.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:By virtue of the fact, this is all I do.
Marc:You found a thing...
Marc:And you put all of yourself into it.
Guest:The depth of your nervous system, your heart, your pain, your joy, your fucking trauma, all of it.
Guest:Well, that's rock and roll, man.
Guest:Yeah, dude.
Marc:And Chaz, too.
Marc:And punk and all of it.
Marc:And Stravinsky.
Marc:I guess, but then you start getting more.
Marc:Because guys who can do everything, guys who are virtuosos, a lot of times they're too good.
Guest:Yeah, but sometimes there are guys who are virtuosos who are still... Simple.
Guest:not a matter of simple or complicated, but are able to still be themselves and be themselves and not fucking, they're humble enough and believe enough in their aesthetic.
Guest:That's true.
Marc:Okay, that's a good point.
Marc:The belief in their aesthetic is a good point because a lot of times if you have natural virtuosity, you're compelled to mimicry.
Guest:Like you can do anything.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Like you look at Duke Ellington.
Guest:The guy changed his whole career.
Guest:He could do everything.
Guest:You ever hear a Duke Ellington record that didn't sound like Duke Ellington?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's just because he's himself so much and trusts himself and is close to his spirit and his heart.
Marc:He's not just fucking... It's making sure that gets out.
Marc:And I think a lot of guys who are talented and even amazing don't always get it out.
Marc:They don't always... You can't... And sometimes the simplest players, it's sort of so fucking honest because they're putting everything they can into the range that they work in.
Marc:Bob Marley.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like Family Man, like those reggae stuff.
Guest:A lot of those old blues dudes.
Marc:It's like the guys who built the thing.
Marc:Lightning Hopkins.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:And nothing sounds like that guy.
Marc:No.
Marc:And you can't even play like that.
Guest:No, nobody can.
Guest:Captain Beefheart.
Marc:Beefheart.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Captain Beefheart and Howlin' Wolf.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Beefheart.
Marc:I've been listening to a lot of Zappa, dude.
Marc:I don't even know why.
Guest:You know, I need to because I don't like I love beef heart, especially like trout mass replica kind of changed my life in a way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I don't know Zappa that well.
Guest:The only record I've ever listened to a lot is the Hot Rats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, and what's the one?
Marc:Sugarcane Harris on violin.
Guest:Sugarcane.
Guest:Awesome.
Guest:Remember one time being at a party and he dropped a fucking bindle of heroin out of his pocket on the floor.
Guest:I saw it.
Guest:Pick that shit up.
Marc:Good to pick it up.
Guest:Picked it up.
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:I hope we gave it back to him.
Marc:Hey, drugs, you know, drug time's different.
Marc:When drugs are involved.
Guest:Ethos as a whole.
Guest:Ethos is different.
Marc:Drug ethos.
Marc:I just, yeah, but listening to, I don't know why, but it was just a couple weeks ago where I'm like, I'm going to go through the Zappa catalog when I hike.
Marc:So I've been doing it, like the first five albums.
Marc:And by the time you get to apostrophe, I'm like, holy fuck.
Marc:I had to stop myself from emailing Dweezil to say, what kind of guitar is your dad playing on apostrophe?
Marc:I know he'll know, and he probably has the guitar, but what difference does it make?
Guest:Yeah, I got to get into it.
Guest:I'm kind of uneducated on that front.
Marc:Well, there's a lot there and it's intimidating, but it's its own thing and it's very clean and very interesting and very, you know, like multi-layered.
Marc:But I mean, I'm not like a Zappa nerd, but for some reason, sometimes I'm like, I think I'm ready.
Guest:Yeah, but it's good to be like, man, I just like so much music.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So the evolution then, so why so many ins and outs with John?
Guest:Because John is an intense guy who lives in the moment of his feelings and when he gets to a point where he needs to evolve in a way and he knows it and he can't do it in the band, he goes.
Guest:Basically, I mean, that's the simplest way I can put it and I don't feel right to speak for him.
Guest:But I know, you know how a lot of people will say they don't care about being famous?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like they just care about art.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then they keep doing everything they can to be famous.
Guest:John literally doesn't give a fuck about being famous.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How about the rest of you?
Guest:Yeah, you know, look, hey, I like to make a buck as much as the next guy.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I'm a Hollywood kid, you know?
Guest:I mean, I don't spend my life trying to be famous.
Guest:My thing on it is this, and that's a good question, because I'd like for me to be honest about it, because that's hard for me to really know.
Guest:I know that whatever degree of fame I have or don't have, the thing that's crucial to me is that everything comes from an organic place.
Guest:That if you make something beautiful, you make a beautiful piece of art, you do something that's good, good things will come from it.
Guest:And part of that is respect from your peers and from people who care about art and stuff.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's interesting that you say you're a Hollywood kid because the difference there is that you guys became sort of fixtures here, right?
Marc:And people knew you and you're in all these different scenes and everyone's coming up.
Marc:So all of a sudden, you're acting in movies.
Marc:People want to put you in movies.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:to do some version of yourself because you are a thing.
Marc:And I love movies.
Guest:The thing is, I don't act in movies to be famous.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The thing is, I'm not against being famous.
Guest:But you're not going out for auditions.
Marc:People ask you to be in movies, right?
Guest:Yeah, and I love movies.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I love acting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Especially the last 10 years, a few things happened that made me take it very seriously.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Like the craft of it.
Marc:Yeah, like which things?
Guest:Particularly, I did this one underground...
Guest:called Lowdown with John Hawks, Al Fanning, and this woman I met who's the same age as me named Amy Albany.
Guest:Her father was Joe Albany.
Guest:He was a great jazz pianist, played with Charlie Parker, Mingus, great dude.
Guest:Come to 70s, like me, same age as me.
Guest:She was living in Hollywood.
Guest:Her dad, who was a brilliant jazz bebop pianist, was strung out on dope.
Guest:They're living in like a crackhead hooker apartment on Hollywood and Western, one of those buildings right there in Hollywood and Western.
Guest:And, you know, she was this guy she admired who's her everything, who loves her more than anything.
Guest:This brilliant guy is a fucking disaster heroin addict mess.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And she wrote a memoir about it and a movie was made about it.
Guest:And so I get the script.
Guest:I'm like, this is my fucking story.
Guest:I couldn't even believe it.
Guest:I was shaking and crying reading it.
Guest:And it was about what I grew up in.
Guest:And here I am playing one of these jazz guys.
Guest:John Hawks played the main guy.
Guest:Her dad, I played the friend, the junkie friend.
Guest:And I was like, I got to honor this.
Guest:I can't just show up and wing it and be flea.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I went out and got an acting coach.
Guest:I started studying acting.
Guest:Who did you work with?
Guest:A guy named Peter Lewis.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who's incredible.
Guest:Ed Norton turned me on to him.
Guest:And he's a brilliant fucking man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he just started teaching me.
Guest:And I started really taking the craft seriously.
Guest:And the thing I learned more than anything, like all these techniques, you know, smarting up an object.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Stella Adler always said that, you know, whatever, all these things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:that are great.
Guest:Write a journal as a character for months and months and months before.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:You do that?
Guest:I do that.
Guest:I take it damn fucking serious now.
Guest:What did he teach you?
Guest:What were you going to say?
Guest:But the thing that he taught me more than anything was, or that I learned, I don't know if he specifically taught me, that as a musician, I do all my scales, I do all my stuff, I do my study, I do my practice, I do my work, but there comes a time when all that matters is getting gone.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like all that matters is like when I'm at my best.
Marc:Showing up to be the present.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just let go.
Guest:Hopefully you can channel the spirits, live in a place beyond thought where you're fucking channeling the great fucking gods of the galaxy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And you're just like, you've done the work where if that wave chooses to come through you, you let it come.
Guest:Get out the fuck out the way.
Guest:Right.
Guest:and i learned that that can happen in acting i didn't know that right you know and so so so i learned how to do all the work and get to a place where you let it go and let that happen and a lot of it has to do with learning what to do is what is the preparation what is the work what is the stuff and and so since then i've taken it really seriously you know that's great yeah so anyways that that sounds like you know that a lot of that work like like when you why'd you get sober
Guest:Well, I'm not entirely sober.
Guest:I'm not on a program.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:But I am pretty much mostly sober.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but I mean, once in a blue moon, I'll drink like a half a beer.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or take a hit off a joint or something.
Guest:But like blue moon, I'm just not.
Guest:I stopped doing drugs entirely when I turned about 30 years old, everything.
Marc:I guess you see enough people die and get strung out.
Guest:Everyone was dying, getting strung out.
Guest:But more than that, I remember having a talk with someone once and...
Guest:I was talking about being a dad and my daughter was about, I don't know, four years old or something.
Guest:And I would like get high when I was away from her or whatever and think, oh, I don't do it around her or whatever.
Guest:And I remember, and they said like, all that matters as a parent is to be present for your kid and be communicative.
Guest:And you have to be communicating with them when you're not around them.
Guest:You have to be, it's like being in a state where you're always there for them.
Guest:Like your spirit is always available whenever they need you.
Guest:And that really resonated with me.
Guest:And I, you know, I love my kids so much.
Guest:And I was just like, that's, I gotta be there.
Guest:And I was tortured enough on my own.
Guest:Like I spent so much of my life, like riddled with panic attacks and anxiety.
Marc:That's from growing up in chaos.
Guest:From growing up in chaos and like not knowing how to be in a relationship and hurting myself, hurting other people.
Guest:I just, you know, I didn't want to do it anymore.
Guest:And I knew that I started getting like vague little hints of spirituality and stuff.
Guest:And I knew that like, like I'd read books.
Guest:I got a yoga teacher.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I got sick.
Guest:I got real sick.
Guest:I got chronic fatigue and stuff.
Guest:All this stuff happened to me.
Guest:And I was just like, yeah, I did.
Guest:Huh?
Guest:I did.
Guest:And at that point, I was like, I want to feel everything.
Guest:I need to feel the pain.
Guest:I'm never going to run from it again.
Marc:So what's your practice?
Guest:My practice now, like right now, I'm meditating.
Guest:I pray.
Guest:I'm not religious, but I pray every morning.
Guest:I get out of bed.
Guest:I pray every time I eat food.
Guest:What kind of meditating?
Guest:I do TM mostly.
Guest:I also learned this Vipassana.
Guest:I went to these Vipassana meditation retreats.
Guest:I learned that technique.
Marc:And that worked for you?
Guest:Yeah, it helps me.
Guest:It's not always easy.
Guest:As a matter of fact, sometimes it's damn right painful.
Guest:In what way?
Guest:But I just have to like parts of myself come up.
Guest:Fear and anxiety that...
Guest:you know what i mean like in a deep way like like i'll be sitting there and all of a sudden i'll be overwhelmed with like shaking sweating really yeah like just this pain it's like this icy grip grabbing a hold of me like i'm gonna take you down to the bottomless pits of hell like that kind of feeling like a fear and anxiety yeah yeah
Guest:Yeah, triggered by some little thought that I don't even know what it is.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I know that when I feel it, I start to have more of an understanding and I start to understand, okay.
Marc:You integrate it.
Guest:I integrate it and I'm not going to let it run my life.
Guest:I'm going to feel it.
Guest:Yes, I'm in fucking pain today, but I'm not going to let it make me go make some ridiculous decision in my life that's not good.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Feel the pain, carry it around.
Guest:Like I'm flea walking around and I'm in pain.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Hey, how you doing?
Guest:How can I help?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Well, that's a thing.
Marc:You do help, right?
Marc:So you set up the school, too.
Marc:I mean, service is a big part of your thing.
Guest:Big part of my thing.
Guest:And it got really amplified during the pandemic, too, in a really cool way.
Guest:How?
Guest:Well, just like when the pandemic hit, I got... I loved it, right?
Guest:Like, you know... No one's doing nothing.
Guest:Living up in my compound in Malibu, dude.
Guest:I'm like... Is that where you're at?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm like, I don't have to go.
Guest:I don't live there anymore.
Guest:I actually moved because I got married and things got different.
Guest:But...
Guest:I was like, man, I didn't have to go on tour.
Guest:And at first a real lockdown, we stopped rehearsing.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I never have that kind of time.
Guest:And I was like, man, I'm going to go shoot hoops today.
Guest:I'm going to go get an ocean.
Guest:I'm just going to practice baseball.
Guest:for six hours yeah you think about that world yeah i'm gonna go in the garage and make crazy noises because i feel like it yeah you know what i mean like it was just so great and then i started thinking damn it's all nice for me because i got the money to like roll through this and i started thinking about people who were really struggling because they didn't have work they didn't have you know people who live day to day all of a sudden completely
Guest:And so I got an idea to bring a food truck to like, you know, poor parts of LA and just, just whatever I can do, do something with my time and what I can help.
Guest:And then I found some people in organization and Watts that, that was doing groceries giveaways and I hooked up with them.
Guest:I said, Hey, I'll bring a food truck.
Guest:And, and then I just got really involved in that community, you know, and, um, being a part of that and met all these awesome people and made friends and started building bridges and making friends with people who had, who's experienced, uh,
Guest:so much different than mine right down the street man yeah like you know people who who are just like it's crazy the things you learn when you get into a place and listen you know yeah like the way like white supremacy and and systemic racism really works yeah like how it really affects people you know what i mean and making friends on there and i just got really involved and continue to be involved in community work there and and uh
Guest:and that makes me really happy.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Yeah, really great.
Guest:So that part of, and the school, and also we're starting a music school there as well.
Guest:Like I'm doing a bunch of stuff, but we're starting the Watts Conservatory of Music as well.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:And yeah, it's been kind of, I hate to talk about it because we haven't taught one fucking lesson yet.
Marc:Right, but you're working on it.
Guest:They're working on it, yeah.
Marc:And the other school is kicking, are you guys back in it?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, back into full effect.
Guest:That's great, man.
Guest:Yeah, we know, because we teach like 800 kids a week, man.
Guest:you know, orchestra and choir.
Guest:And I was like, I meet so many kids now.
Guest:We've been together 20 years.
Guest:I mean, I come in, like I run into an adult and I'd be like, Hey, you know, I went to your school for five years when I was a kid and it really changed my life.
Guest:Oh, that's, you know what I mean?
Guest:Like I met all my friends there and we all became friends and we started weird bands and we did this and that.
Guest:And now, you know, now I'm a, that just, you know, I make teacups, whatever the fuck, but, but,
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the birth of their creativity and community.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or whether or not it's just a cool thing for they to do.
Guest:Sure, man.
Guest:For some people, they might go be a musician for their lives.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's what I mean.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it could be anything.
Guest:It's been really nice.
Guest:And you've been a great, great help for that, being a part of the funding.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:It's always fraught with me.
Marc:I'm always nervous.
Marc:I always get angry and weird, but it's hard to wrangle a dinner crew of rich people.
Guest:It's fucked.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:You know, all you got to do is go up there, get an amp, jump around and dive under your face.
Marc:It's like I always have big plans when I host it, but I get up there.
Marc:I'm like, what the?
Marc:Listen to me.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I'm yelling at Mo Aston, who's 100.
Marc:I love Mo.
Marc:So anyways, what about Navarro?
Marc:You guys still friends or what?
Guest:Yeah, I'd never see him.
Marc:Sure, but did you like that version?
Guest:I think it had really good moments.
Guest:There were times when it was great, and when it worked, it worked, and when it didn't work, it really didn't work.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Just chemistry-wise, and drugs came into the picture in a way that were just like...
Guest:untenable you guys have like just sort of hammered through it you know like it's amazing that the that you and Anthony are alive yeah you know what I mean it's like Jesus it's a long time dude and the crazy thing is like at least for me yeah like Anthony I'm sure has a different take on it than me
Guest:I never think about like, well, we're going to keep going no matter what.
Guest:Or like I never have thoughts about, well, next year we're going to be doing this.
Guest:It's just kind of like it always kind of makes sense to keep doing it.
Marc:Well, I mean, look, man, everyone seems to.
Marc:If you can, they do.
Marc:Like you guys really make big new records.
Marc:So you've got to take that shit out there.
Guest:I think it might be that thing of us being, well, for the most part, completely sober.
Guest:I'm probably the only one.
Guest:And I am basically sober.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:In my home life, my wife has never tasted alcohol in her whole life.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That's how we are in my house.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But we feel everything.
Guest:And...
Guest:And by feeling everything, we always show up and we're like, let's get to work.
Guest:And we never rest on our laurels.
Guest:It's never this thing of like, like, oh, well, I'm going to be in the Caribbean, you know, eating papayas and sitting on a beach.
Guest:It's like, no, we're going to be in a room every day arguing about whether the bridge should be eight bars or 12 bars and whether this or that and still jamming and jamming to a final groove where we're fucking drooling and lost in love with each other.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And also, you know, in a way,
Guest:And I'm just kind of thinking of this now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like John leaving us and coming back and us having to continue like focus and reinvent.
Guest:And every time it kind of we have to work to birth this thing again.
Guest:It might save us because we have to be forced to keep working.
Marc:Do you find it?
Marc:Do things evolve or change?
Marc:I mean, like, you know, like when John comes back, it's sort of like, hmm, he's in a different place now.
Guest:He's in a different place.
Guest:He's been through a whole journey making these records by himself.
Guest:He's deeply into the sonics of his electronic music and records.
Guest:Yeah, it's trippy shit.
Guest:I've listened to some of it, yeah.
Guest:Trippy shit.
Guest:He's deep into it, like deep.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He doesn't do shallow.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Frasciante don't do shallow.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we've been growing and changing and doing our thing, like living, you know what I mean?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And so we get back together and it's like, here's our guy.
Guest:Like, we don't get to do this forever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Let's make the most beautiful thing we can.
Guest:Let's show up for each other every day.
Guest:And there's big records, two records, right?
Guest:Yeah, and that's a little bit of it.
Guest:Huh?
Guest:This is a small piece of it.
Guest:There's more?
Guest:We recorded a lot.
Guest:How many songs?
Guest:A lot.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So what's the plan?
Guest:I can't really talk about it.
Guest:Oh, you got one though?
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Loosely.
Guest:We do and we don't.
Guest:But we recorded a lot of music and we thought that these songs would go together and make a really good double album.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And are you guys looking to tour?
Guest:We're absolutely looking to tour.
Guest:The record comes out on, I think, April 1st.
Guest:We're going to do some shows around that.
Guest:And then come June, we're starting a full-on world tour.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:All right, man.
Guest:You seem ready.
Guest:Yeah, I'm ready, man.
Guest:I'm ready.
Guest:It's good to talk to you.
Guest:We have work to do and stuff.
Guest:Yeah, thanks, Mark.
Guest:Great to talk to you always.
Marc:That was me and Flea, the new album, Unlimited Love, comes out this Friday, April 1st.
Marc:You can get it wherever you get music, and I enjoy talking to that guy.
Marc:And I'll see you in Georgia this weekend.
Marc:And I'll talk to you Thursday before I go.
Marc:But here's some guitar playing.
guitar solo
Guest:Boomer lives.
Guest:Monkey and La Fonda.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere.