Episode 1313 - Keith Richards

Episode 1313 • Released March 14, 2022 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:11Marc:How are you?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fuck nicks?

00:00:15Marc:What the fuck, Godelix?

00:00:17Marc:How's it going?

00:00:18Marc:I'm tired.

00:00:19Marc:Can you hear the tired?

00:00:20Marc:I'm tired.

00:00:22Marc:I've been out.

00:00:23Marc:I've been out doing it.

00:00:24Marc:I've been out doing the road on my own.

00:00:27Marc:Living the life.

00:00:28Marc:A lot of reflecting.

00:00:30Marc:But it was a great week away.

00:00:32Marc:It was almost a week.

00:00:33Marc:What day is today?

00:00:34Marc:Monday?

00:00:35Marc:So I left last Tuesday.

00:00:37Marc:It was the real deal, man.

00:00:40Marc:Driving to one-nighters.

00:00:42Marc:Just like the old days.

00:00:43Marc:But great shows.

00:00:45Marc:Before I tell you about that, let's let's set this up.

00:00:48Marc:Let's set it up.

00:00:50Marc:Keith Richards is on the show today.

00:00:52Marc:Now, I talked to him last week on Zoom for like 15, 20 minutes.

00:00:56Marc:I loved it.

00:00:57Marc:It was great.

00:00:58Marc:But I really thought going into that talk that I would be less of a fanboy than I was in 2015, which I just was I was beside myself.

00:01:08Marc:Really, honestly, beside myself, like almost out of body experience.

00:01:12Marc:It turns out none of that has changed.

00:01:15Marc:Right when I got him on Zoom and I saw him, I just lit up and it was just I think I think I the way that I kept my shit together a little bit was like I think I busted his balls just a little bit, just a little.

00:01:27Marc:Just get a couple of laughs, a couple of laughs at old Kiefer's.

00:01:31Marc:But we decided that why not just run the one from 2015, too?

00:01:35Marc:So what we're going to do is we're going to do the new one and then we're going to run the old one because many of you haven't heard that.

00:01:42Marc:And even if you have heard it, you probably want to listen to it again.

00:01:46Marc:That's what I'm just saying.

00:01:47Marc:Sorry if my speech is weird.

00:01:48Marc:I'm tired and I think I might have a tumor in my head.

00:01:51Marc:So that's happening.

00:01:52Marc:Keith is happening.

00:01:53Marc:Big Keith Day today.

00:01:54Marc:But what a week, man.

00:01:56Marc:I did all the road things.

00:01:58Marc:I did the shows.

00:01:59Marc:I did the shame.

00:02:00Marc:I did it.

00:02:01Marc:I did the road things.

00:02:02Marc:Drove for miles, hours.

00:02:05Marc:I flew into New York, rented a car on Tuesday night, drove to New Haven, checked into the hotel at like 11 at night.

00:02:11Marc:Got up in the morning, coffeed up, went down the street to the Yale Gallery of Art, spent some time with some Rothko's and some other paintings.

00:02:19Marc:Then I met up with a friend of mine, Dean Falcone, who was a pizza guy and a music guy.

00:02:25Marc:So we went and ate at Pepe's Pizza with him.

00:02:27Marc:He had a crew of people there.

00:02:29Marc:Some guy owned a bagel place.

00:02:31Marc:a cousin who wrote a book about pizza.

00:02:33Marc:We'd gone to Sally's the last time, Pepe's.

00:02:36Marc:We sat there, we ate like 90 pizzas, a clam pizza, a white pizza, a sausage pizza, a margarita pizza, another kind of pizza.

00:02:45Marc:And then the other thing, all pizza.

00:02:47Marc:Just, it was, I don't think I'll ever be able to eat pizza again.

00:02:51Marc:So that night with a belly full of pizza and Italian pastry,

00:02:55Marc:I did a show in New Haven at College Street, and it was great.

00:02:58Marc:Great show.

00:02:59Marc:It was the first one since New York where I'm not doing openers.

00:03:04Marc:And I did it in New Haven.

00:03:05Marc:It was great.

00:03:06Marc:I think I did like an hour and 35.

00:03:09Marc:Everyone was happy.

00:03:10Marc:Great show.

00:03:11Marc:Great venue.

00:03:12Marc:Good people to work with.

00:03:13Marc:Nice audience.

00:03:14Marc:Saw Brian Jones the Potter up there.

00:03:17Marc:Then I crash out in New Haven, get up the next day, and I got a drive to Troy, New York.

00:03:23Marc:Now, Troy, New York, I've been to all these places, actually, except for Laconia, New Hampshire.

00:03:28Marc:But I played the music hall in Troy once before.

00:03:30Marc:Every time I go to Troy, it's such a beautiful old city.

00:03:33Marc:Same with Albany.

00:03:34Marc:There's part of me that's like, I want to move here.

00:03:36Marc:These are cool old buildings.

00:03:38Marc:But then what happens then?

00:03:39Marc:I just become like the guy who lives in Troy.

00:03:41Marc:Isn't that Marc Maron?

00:03:42Marc:Why does he live here now?

00:03:43Marc:I don't know.

00:03:44Marc:He did a gig here, and then he never left.

00:03:46Marc:It's kind of weird.

00:03:47Marc:We were happy to have him at first, but now he just kind of moves around from coffee shop to coffee shop.

00:03:53Marc:talking to himself we checked he's not talking he doesn't have ear pods in but uh but i actually did see an old comic there ross bennett uh who actually does live up in troy uh with another comic who i think i don't know if they're married or not but he came to the service nonetheless the music hall is a magic place it was built in the mid 1800s there's a rack for a top hat under each chair there's a shawl uh little uh uh shelf not shelf uh what would you call it

00:04:17Marc:The towel rack, like a shawl rack on the back of each chair.

00:04:19Marc:It's wild.

00:04:21Marc:It's definitely timeless.

00:04:22Marc:You know, someone should do a steampunk show there of some kind.

00:04:24Marc:But I've been there before and it was magic then.

00:04:26Marc:There's perfect acoustics in the place.

00:04:28Marc:And I think I did like an hour and 40 maybe, hour 45.

00:04:30Marc:I don't know, but it was a great show.

00:04:33Marc:A lot of new things happened.

00:04:35Marc:Every show was different.

00:04:36Marc:Every show was just me.

00:04:38Marc:And then I ate at a place.

00:04:39Marc:I ate at Nighthawks because the guy who owns the place had told me to come.

00:04:43Marc:It was good.

00:04:45Marc:And then the next day I got up early and I drove from Troy to Laconia, New Hampshire.

00:04:52Marc:But I stopped at Mass Mocha first, which is that massive museum of contemporary art out there in North Adams.

00:04:59Marc:Amazing.

00:05:00Marc:The Mass Mocha is this huge space.

00:05:02Marc:It's many different industrial buildings that have been made into this museum.

00:05:05Marc:So a lot of the art there are installations, things that only happen there and only happen for a period of time.

00:05:12Marc:And there's many of them.

00:05:12Marc:I can't name all of them, but they're all kind of mind blowing.

00:05:15Marc:What a spectacular way to spend like two or three hours.

00:05:18Marc:It just blew my mind.

00:05:19Marc:I did realize, though, that art doesn't give a fuck about you.

00:05:23Marc:You've got to go out and get it.

00:05:24Marc:You've got to go get the art.

00:05:26Marc:You've got to go get it.

00:05:28Marc:And I didn't even know why I didn't realize this when I dated a painter for years.

00:05:31Marc:It's an insulated world, and they're playing to the back of the room a lot of times.

00:05:34Marc:They're only concerned about themselves and about how it's going to be received by critics and by people in the art world.

00:05:42Marc:So you've got to realize that there's a certain language to it all.

00:05:46Marc:But you've just got to let it go in there and let it, as I say...

00:05:51Marc:Punch you in the brain.

00:05:52Marc:And if it's good, it'll stay punched.

00:05:55Marc:And mine got punched the fuck out at Mass Mocha.

00:05:59Marc:So then I continue on.

00:06:00Marc:I leave Mass Mocha and I'm going to Laconia.

00:06:02Marc:Dunkin' Donuts all the way.

00:06:03Marc:Every day, Dunkin' Donuts coffee.

00:06:05Marc:Jacked out of my mind.

00:06:07Marc:And I started to spiral on the way to Laconia because at the beginning of my career...

00:06:14Marc:I did one nighters.

00:06:15Marc:That's how I learned how to do comedy.

00:06:17Marc:I drive all over the New England area, whether it was New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, upstate New York, Mass, Western Mass, Rhode Island.

00:06:26Marc:There was just it never Connecticut.

00:06:28Marc:There were just gigs, one nighters that you would go do.

00:06:31Marc:And they were always because of the time in my life and what I was trying to do.

00:06:36Marc:They were always pretty good.

00:06:38Marc:Horrendous in a way.

00:06:39Marc:Always kind of terrible.

00:06:40Marc:I was just this neurotic, angry Jewish guy running around to these pubs and bowling alleys and motel and hotel ballrooms and just regular bars and dance clubs that had comedy nights learning how to do comedy.

00:06:56Marc:So it was weird as I was driving around the interstates and rural highways in New England to these gigs at theaters.

00:07:03Marc:They became sort of the neural pathways leading back to the trauma that I experienced starting out in this business.

00:07:11Marc:And as I got closer to Laconia and the more barns I drove past, I started to sort of flashback and and.

00:07:18Marc:spiral into that place where I'm like, this is going to suck.

00:07:21Marc:How the fuck is this going to be good?

00:07:23Marc:How many barns am I going to drive by?

00:07:25Marc:I mean, I was enjoying the barns in moments, but I was also like, where the fuck am I going?

00:07:29Marc:I even texted my agent, like, you know, what the fuck kind of gig is this?

00:07:32Marc:Everything that I did

00:07:35Marc:In the late 80s, when I started doing gigs, I was doing.

00:07:40Marc:I had come full circle, but this was not connected to anything.

00:07:43Marc:It wasn't real.

00:07:45Marc:Fear and anxiety from the old mark, from the old days.

00:07:49Marc:And I had to reel it in, man.

00:07:51Marc:It was wild because it was full circle.

00:07:55Marc:I was driving to one nighters.

00:07:56Marc:I was staying at hotels, which usually I didn't do back in the day.

00:08:00Marc:But I got to Waconia and it's this beautiful little redone theater, the Colonial.

00:08:05Marc:They just opened.

00:08:07Marc:They've had a few comedy shows there.

00:08:08Marc:I think Jimmy Norton was there and I think Whitney's going there.

00:08:11Marc:And it was great.

00:08:12Marc:Again, there's three restaurants in the town.

00:08:15Marc:And, you know, a couple of coffee shops.

00:08:16Marc:There's a record store with a bar.

00:08:19Marc:But the audience is great.

00:08:21Marc:Everyone's excited.

00:08:22Marc:A lot of people haven't been out since COVID.

00:08:23Marc:I think I did like an hour 40, something like that there, hour 45.

00:08:27Marc:And I enjoyed it.

00:08:28Marc:But I was nervous.

00:08:30Marc:I knew there was going to be a snowstorm in Vermont and I started to panic.

00:08:32Marc:I wouldn't get out of Vermont on Sunday.

00:08:34Marc:I knew that was supposed to snow all day Saturday.

00:08:36Marc:So I got up at six in the morning after Laconia and I drove to get ahead of the storm.

00:08:40Marc:And I did.

00:08:41Marc:It was raining.

00:08:42Marc:But by the time I got to the interstate, it just started snowing.

00:08:45Marc:And then it started coming down harder.

00:08:46Marc:And then it was like really kind of blizzarding.

00:08:49Marc:And then the road got slick.

00:08:50Marc:And I haven't seen snow in years.

00:08:52Marc:I used to live in snow all the time.

00:08:54Marc:Years and years of snow.

00:08:55Marc:And it was annoying, but I always liked it.

00:08:58Marc:But I hadn't seen it in years.

00:08:59Marc:It was very exciting to drive in the snow.

00:09:01Marc:I had rented an SUV so I could pull it off.

00:09:03Marc:By the time I got to Burlington, it was like...

00:09:06Marc:There was like a lot of fucking snow on the ground.

00:09:08Marc:They let me check into the hotel early.

00:09:10Marc:I saw some friends and I ate with a pal at Hen of the Woods, amazing restaurant, sludging through the snow in boots that weren't correct for the snow, trying not to slip and break a hip.

00:09:26Marc:But the Flynn Center, I guess I got about 600 people in there or so.

00:09:29Marc:And I did like almost two hours, hour and 50 minutes riffing, doing the straight comedy stuff, doing performance stuff.

00:09:40Marc:I don't know.

00:09:41Marc:Every night that I did the solo thing without an opener, it felt like I was doing a play.

00:09:46Marc:It was amazing.

00:09:47Marc:I loved it.

00:09:47Marc:All the audiences were great.

00:09:49Marc:On the last night there in Burlington, some kid says, you remind me of my father, but I don't like him.

00:09:55Marc:I like you, though.

00:09:58Marc:That's what he said.

00:09:58Marc:All the people were great.

00:10:01Marc:I did pay a little tribute.

00:10:03Marc:I think it might have been in Laconia because it was on my mind, the spiraling out from the old days that I did a little memorial, a little eulogy for Teddy Bergeron, who was a Boston comic.

00:10:14Marc:That was around when I was working there, when I started out.

00:10:17Marc:A real character.

00:10:18Marc:He was really kind of a mythic guy.

00:10:21Marc:He was one of the first out of Boston to do Letterman and Carson, and he had a big future ahead of him, but he also had terrible alcoholism within him, and he was constantly at battle with that and with himself and with success.

00:10:34Marc:But he always had swagger.

00:10:35Marc:No matter how pathetic it got, Teddy always had swagger, and he had great jokes.

00:10:40Marc:Great jokes.

00:10:41Marc:Jokes that if I listen to now are still hilarious.

00:10:45Marc:Dark jokes about himself, about his father.

00:10:48Marc:Beautifully crafted jokes.

00:10:50Marc:He didn't have I don't know how much he wrote, really.

00:10:52Marc:And I don't know how much he worked because I wasn't around.

00:10:56Marc:But we did a live WTF at the Wilbur, and I had to find somebody that would find him.

00:11:01Marc:Somebody had to tell me that I had to call another Teddy, who was his cousin Teddy, to get the other Teddy.

00:11:06Marc:And I didn't know if Teddy Bergeron was going to show up at the Wilbur.

00:11:09Marc:This was like in 2013, a live one.

00:11:12Marc:We used to do live ones.

00:11:13Marc:There's a bunch of other Boston comics on the panel.

00:11:16Marc:And, you know, Teddy shows up with his ever red hair and he's wearing sweats and he's antsy.

00:11:23Marc:And he's like, I said, well, you good?

00:11:24Marc:He goes, yeah, I'm great.

00:11:26Marc:You know, I'll just riff with you, Mark.

00:11:28Marc:And I'm like, OK, that sounds good.

00:11:30Marc:I get out there and it's Teddy's turn and and he fucking killed.

00:11:34Marc:And I was sitting right next to him watching it happen.

00:11:36Marc:And it was glorious.

00:11:38Marc:it was great it was a great experience to watch teddy kill with that old act that good act those dark ass jokes for a crowd that didn't know who he was and it was just um it was really a beautiful thing really was a beautiful thing right now it's my pleasure to bring on a guy that is legendary he's one of the funniest guys that ever lived i haven't seen him in about 20 years i didn't know if he was still alive or he would make it even

00:12:04Marc:When I used to see this guy wandering around town when we were both drunks, I would show up in a room and he'd go, oh, look, the marinated man.

00:12:10Marc:The marinated man is here.

00:12:14Marc:Teddy Bergeron, ladies and gentlemen.

00:12:25Guest:Marinated man, and you're doing well.

00:12:28Marc:I'm doing all right, Teddy.

00:12:30Guest:It's terrific.

00:12:31Guest:Boston.

00:12:31Guest:Yeah.

00:12:33Guest:I love Boston.

00:12:34Marc:Yeah.

00:12:35Guest:Well, you love Boston.

00:12:36Guest:Sure.

00:12:36Guest:Everybody loves Boston.

00:12:38Guest:Absolutely, Teddy.

00:12:39Guest:I'll be, like, on the road.

00:12:40Guest:Yeah.

00:12:41Guest:I'll be working in Texas or Florida.

00:12:43Guest:Yeah.

00:12:43Guest:I mentioned I'm from Boston.

00:12:44Guest:There's always someone, oh, really?

00:12:46Guest:I'm from Boston, too.

00:12:49Guest:And I'm like, oh, really?

00:12:50Guest:What part?

00:12:51Guest:Maine.

00:12:52Maine.

00:12:57Marc:I'm fucking so glad to see you, man.

00:12:59Guest:It's good to see you, Mark, and I'm glad you're doing well.

00:13:03Guest:I really am.

00:13:04Guest:I'm so surprised.

00:13:06Guest:Not surprised.

00:13:09Okay.

00:13:11Guest:Anyway, look at the energy you bring here.

00:13:22Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:13:23Guest:Because energy's important, Mark.

00:13:25Guest:Yeah, it is.

00:13:25Guest:You know that comedy in life.

00:13:26Guest:Yes.

00:13:27Guest:Life is, we live in a duality.

00:13:29Guest:It's,

00:13:30Guest:Positive, negative energy.

00:13:32Guest:Back and forth.

00:13:32Guest:We fight with it.

00:13:33Guest:Happens to me.

00:13:34Guest:I see a woman.

00:13:36Guest:Positive energy.

00:13:36Guest:She wants me.

00:13:38Guest:Then the negative energy comes.

00:13:40Guest:Would a beautiful woman like her want somebody like you?

00:13:43Guest:Then the positive returns.

00:13:45Guest:Maybe she's an idiot.

00:13:50Guest:Because negative energy is no good for comedy.

00:13:52Guest:We're in that theater district.

00:13:54Guest:Peter Pan, they play, I saw the sign.

00:13:56Guest:I went to see Peter Pan on Broadway.

00:13:58Guest:There's always some guy in the crowd that would want anybody to have fun, right?

00:14:02Guest:And all the kids are excited.

00:14:04Guest:And Sandy Duncan played Peter.

00:14:06Guest:She took a bow, and she flew above the crowd.

00:14:09Guest:And all the kids are like, oh, look at her fly, look at her fly.

00:14:12Guest:There's always that jerk in the back and a deep voice.

00:14:15Guest:She's on a wire!

00:14:17LAUGHTER

00:14:17Guest:She's not flying, she's on a wire.

00:14:19Guest:There's no Santa Claus and she's on a wire.

00:14:24Guest:No, she's flying.

00:14:25Marc:She's on a wire.

00:14:28Guest:It's gonna break.

00:14:28Guest:If she'll land on you, you'll die.

00:14:34Guest:How would you like to be?

00:14:36Guest:How would you like to be an Olympic performer?

00:14:38Guest:Yeah.

00:14:39Guest:They perform in front of those guys that never, the sportscasters, are they a little negative, a little critical?

00:14:45Guest:Yeah.

00:14:46Guest:Because you watch like a diver.

00:14:47Guest:Yeah.

00:14:48Guest:And he's off the board.

00:14:49Guest:Yeah.

00:14:49Guest:And he backflips a double somersault.

00:14:51Guest:Yeah.

00:14:52Guest:He spins out of that to the left to the right, upside down, triple cartwheel into the water.

00:14:56Guest:You're like, wow.

00:14:57Guest:And you hear, no, that's a shame.

00:15:00Yeah.

00:15:07Guest:Oh, God, it's good to see you.

00:15:12Guest:I'm up for this.

00:15:13Guest:When I heard you were doing it, I got up for it.

00:15:15Marc:I'm so fucking great.

00:15:17Marc:I had to track you down.

00:15:18Marc:You're not easy.

00:15:19Marc:You know they have websites and phones now.

00:15:25Guest:Well, actually, I got a pass for the night.

00:15:29Guest:I talked to the doctors.

00:15:32Guest:They let me out for a couple of hours.

00:15:35Marc:I fucking believe that.

00:15:37Marc:I remember you used to talk about your father a lot.

00:15:40Guest:Well, he had...

00:15:41Guest:He was a negative guy, too.

00:15:43Guest:No faith in me.

00:15:44Guest:No kidding.

00:15:44Guest:Oh, my God.

00:15:46Guest:Christmas morning.

00:15:47Guest:What a happy time for a kid.

00:15:48Guest:I'd have my new toy.

00:15:50Guest:I'd run across the room, show it to Daddy.

00:15:52Guest:And he'd smile and say, let's see you bust it now.

00:15:56Guest:And I'd get all freaked out and dropped it, you know.

00:15:58Guest:No matter what.

00:16:00Guest:You know, I'd be at the dinner table.

00:16:01Guest:I'd ask for a glass of milk.

00:16:02Guest:Yeah, spell all over the table.

00:16:06Guest:You know, he used to announce my Little League games.

00:16:08Guest:No.

00:16:09Guest:Oh, yeah, he did the play-by-play over the air.

00:16:11Guest:Yeah.

00:16:11Guest:That was a lot of fun.

00:16:12Guest:Yeah.

00:16:12Guest:There's a fly ball at deep center field going back towards my son.

00:16:17Guest:Watch him drop it.

00:16:20Guest:He dropped it.

00:16:21Guest:And I watched the little son of a bitch.

00:16:23Guest:He's going to kick it around for half an hour and then throw it right into the fucking stands.

00:16:30Guest:You're leading me into some good stuff.

00:16:37Guest:You ever look at your horoscope?

00:16:39Guest:Oh, my horoscope?

00:16:40Guest:Well, I'm a Cancer.

00:16:42Guest:I'm a Cancer.

00:16:44Guest:Because you look at the other ones.

00:16:47Guest:Aquarius, take a vacation.

00:16:48Guest:You deserve it.

00:16:49Guest:This is your year.

00:16:50Guest:Sagittarius, you've worked hard.

00:16:53Guest:You should relax.

00:16:54Guest:Good things are happening for you.

00:16:56Guest:Cancer, buy a shotgun.

00:16:59Guest:Place your mouth over the barrel and pull the trigger.

00:17:03Guest:You owe it to yourself and your friend.

00:17:06Guest:Teddy Bergeron, ladies and gentlemen.

00:17:10Marc:That was beautiful.

00:17:11Guest:You feel good?

00:17:12Guest:I had fun.

00:17:13Guest:I love it.

00:17:14Guest:My hometown.

00:17:16Marc:Love those jokes.

00:17:17Marc:I still laugh at those jokes.

00:17:18Marc:Rest in peace, Teddy Bergeron.

00:17:21Marc:You were the real deal, man.

00:17:23Marc:Okay.

00:17:24Marc:Keith Richards.

00:17:25Marc:So...

00:17:27Marc:Here's what we're doing.

00:17:28Marc:This first chat I had with him last week on Zoom.

00:17:32Marc:It's about 15 to 20 minutes.

00:17:34Marc:And I got the opportunity to talk to him again because we did good the last time.

00:17:38Marc:He's re-releasing the main Offender album, which is his second album.

00:17:43Marc:solo album it's the 30th anniversary reissue it comes out this friday march 18th you can get it on all these streaming music platforms you can get it as a deluxe cd or vinyl release or as a super deluxe box set which includes unreleased live recordings an 88 page book guitar picks stickers and more and you can order that one at keithrichards.com that's the one i got it's fucking beautiful

00:18:09Marc:And here's the deal.

00:18:11Marc:After this talk, the one I just did last week, we're going to go ahead and play the full 2015 interview I had with Keith in New York City.

00:18:18Marc:Now, that was a I couldn't I was beside myself.

00:18:22Marc:I was literally almost out of my body with excitement and just joy to sit with one of my heroes.

00:18:29Marc:And I thought, you know, in the last six years, seven years, that maybe I'd gotten my shit together.

00:18:34Marc:I'd grounded myself a little bit.

00:18:35Marc:I could be a little more professional.

00:18:37Marc:But you'll hear going into this interview that I did last week, that was not the case.

00:18:42Marc:Equally as excited.

00:18:43Marc:Only this time, I think I busted his balls a little bit.

00:18:45Marc:I did try and get some laughs.

00:18:48Marc:Nothing more fun than making Keith Richards laugh.

00:18:52Marc:There's a few things more fun, but it's pretty great.

00:18:54Marc:It's pretty great.

00:18:55Marc:So this is me talking to Keith Richards last week on Zoom.

00:19:07Guest:Hey.

00:19:07Guest:How are you going?

00:19:08Marc:Good.

00:19:08Marc:How are you, man?

00:19:10Marc:Fine.

00:19:10Marc:How you been, man?

00:19:11Marc:It's good.

00:19:12Marc:I haven't talked to you in a while.

00:19:13Marc:You remember I talked to you a few years ago.

00:19:16Marc:I do.

00:19:16Marc:I do remember.

00:19:17Marc:How you been?

00:19:18Marc:I'm good.

00:19:19Marc:We shared a cigarette.

00:19:21Marc:Exactly.

00:19:22Marc:We were at the NPR studios and they were all freaking out because we were smoking.

00:19:28Marc:I gave it up.

00:19:30Marc:Did you?

00:19:31Marc:Really?

00:19:31Marc:For real?

00:19:32Marc:It's a couple of years.

00:19:33Marc:Oh, my God.

00:19:34Marc:Do you feel you got to feel better, right?

00:19:37Guest:I actually I didn't notice anything, man, until until I started rehearsing for the Stones tour.

00:19:44Guest:And then I when I started working, I realized I had a lot more air in the lungs and in the voice and more stamina.

00:19:52Guest:Yeah.

00:19:54Guest:You know, it ain't always cracked up to be, you know what?

00:19:57Marc:Not smoking.

00:19:58Marc:Yeah.

00:20:01Marc:Better than the alternative, man.

00:20:03Marc:Sure, sure.

00:20:04Marc:You want to try and stay on this side of the grass for as long as possible.

00:20:07Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:20:08Guest:I'm working on that.

00:20:09Marc:Well, yeah.

00:20:09Marc:I'm sorry about your friend, man.

00:20:10Marc:I'm sorry about Charlie.

00:20:11Marc:It's terrible.

00:20:13Guest:Oh, man.

00:20:13Guest:That was a blow out of nowhere.

00:20:17Guest:But...

00:20:19Guest:yeah what a guy yeah how do you deal with that do you got a way you know you've lost a lot of friends lately you just kind of just deal with it i don't know yeah it deals with you in a way uh they you know when that happens the guys you know keep cropping up when you at least expect them to start to know i've had a couple of chats with charlie you know i mean yeah yeah oh that's nice so you get a lot of people who bring you memories

00:20:44Marc:yeah that's nice i you know i saw you guys in uh florida i think the last american show oh niami yeah in fort lauderdale yeah oh yeah i was there i visited my mother and fran yeah you know i talked to fran i'm like i want to go see the guys and i went with my brother it was fucking great now i gotta ask you a question though uh

00:21:07Marc:So, you know, you go into Midnight Rambler and then all of a sudden, unless I'm hallucinating, you went into Hellhounds on my trail.

00:21:13Marc:Is that right?

00:21:14Guest:We do throw a bit of Robert Johnson in.

00:21:16Guest:Yeah.

00:21:17Guest:Yeah.

00:21:18Guest:Mick and I have been fiddling around with that just to sort of tail it off, you know.

00:21:22Marc:I couldn't believe it.

00:21:24Marc:I was out of my mind.

00:21:25Marc:I couldn't believe it.

00:21:25Marc:It was the best thing.

00:21:26Marc:Because, I mean, I wait for Midnight Rambler every time I see you guys, and all of a sudden you're doing Hellhounds on my trail, and I'm like, what the fuck is happening?

00:21:33Guest:It was great.

00:21:34Guest:That middle bit is always left sort of open, you know, and it's been going that way lately, you know.

00:21:39Marc:And you guys just come up with that yourself when you were rehearsing?

00:21:42Marc:Yeah.

00:21:42Guest:Yeah.

00:21:44Guest:I think one time...

00:21:46Guest:Nick said something about Hellhound on my trail, and I played the lick, and then we threw it in.

00:21:51Guest:He said, well, man, that fits really nice.

00:21:54Marc:That was so good.

00:21:55Marc:And you played that, well, you put the capo on the seventh fret and just a regular tuning?

00:21:59Guest:Regular tuning.

00:22:01Guest:Regular tuning, seventh fret, yeah.

00:22:03Marc:Yeah, I figured out how to play it finally.

00:22:06Marc:I got another question for you.

00:22:08Hold on.

00:22:08Guest:There's a little trick to it.

00:22:10Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:22:11Marc:Where?

00:22:12Marc:You see this?

00:22:14Marc:Can I have that hat?

00:22:15Marc:Oh, that one.

00:22:16Marc:Yeah.

00:22:19Marc:You want that one?

00:22:19Guest:I got it around the corner.

00:22:22Guest:I was like, where the hell is he getting these beanies?

00:22:25Guest:You know?

00:22:25Guest:I don't know.

00:22:26Guest:And my daughters and wife get them off the... I know online somewhere.

00:22:31Marc:Oh, man.

00:22:31Guest:That's all I know.

00:22:32Guest:Somewhere up there.

00:22:33Marc:Here's another thing I got.

00:22:34Marc:Hold on.

00:22:35Marc:You see this thing?

00:22:38Marc:That's that French photo show by that Dominique Tartt.

00:22:43Guest:Dominique Tartt.

00:22:44Marc:Yeah.

00:22:45Guest:Yeah, he was a friend of mine when we were cutting Exile.

00:22:49Marc:Right.

00:22:50Marc:Well, I don't know where I saw it or somebody sent it to me, but I got the book from the gallery, and it's like a family album, for God's sake.

00:22:58Marc:It should be called Parenting with Keith Richards.

00:23:01Yeah.

00:23:03Marc:There's so many pictures of you and Marlon on the boat, hanging around, and then you in the basement playing guitar.

00:23:10Guest:Yeah, that basement, man.

00:23:14Guest:You remember it?

00:23:16Guest:All very well, man.

00:23:17Guest:Yeah, clearly.

00:23:18Guest:Yeah, it was a rough...

00:23:19Guest:It was rough down there in the summer, man, but it was worth it.

00:23:24Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:23:25Marc:I definitely think so.

00:23:26Marc:So, look, man, this reissue of this record of Main Offender, I've listened to it.

00:23:32Marc:They sent me the box, and it's beautiful, man.

00:23:35Marc:Beautiful box.

00:23:36Marc:And I'm not a big collector guy, but...

00:23:38Marc:All the pictures are great.

00:23:40Marc:And all the like you got the photos and the in the handwritten lyrics and the drawings and everything is just beautiful.

00:23:47Marc:And it sounds great.

00:23:49Marc:Now, who decides to do this?

00:23:51Marc:Does someone come up to you and say it's time to do this?

00:23:53Marc:Or do you say let's fucking do this?

00:23:55Guest:Actually, Jane Rose, my manager, comes up and says they want to reissue, you know, and we got involved with really great sort of box set designers and stuff.

00:24:11Marc:Wow, man.

00:24:12Marc:It's like an art book.

00:24:13Guest:Yeah.

00:24:14Guest:What I like, particularly about this main offender one, is that it's also a live show thrown in.

00:24:20Guest:From London.

00:24:21Guest:Yeah, which was a great show.

00:24:23Guest:I didn't even know that we'd recorded that tour.

00:24:28Guest:So it was a surprise for me, too, you know.

00:24:30Guest:Yeah.

00:24:30Marc:You didn't know they had the machine on?

00:24:32Guest:No, man.

00:24:35Guest:I probably just forgot.

00:24:37Guest:Yeah.

00:24:37Marc:Well, it seems like there's a lot of that around where there's just all these tapes of bands and I'm like, who the hell knew that they recorded this?

00:24:46Marc:But I guess someone flips it on.

00:24:48Guest:Yeah.

00:24:49Guest:We recorded it ourselves.

00:24:50Guest:It was myself that had forgotten that we'd done that.

00:24:53Guest:Because right after that, the Stones went back into full pelt and, you know,

00:24:59Marc:Oh, for what was that?

00:25:01Marc:Voodoo Lounge?

00:25:02Guest:Yeah.

00:25:03Marc:Who's in the lineup on the live show?

00:25:04Marc:Is it the same lineup as on Main Offender?

00:25:07Guest:On the live one, the bass changed to Jerome Smith.

00:25:12Guest:Yeah.

00:25:13Guest:Because of, I don't know, whatever.

00:25:15Guest:Anyway, that's what happened.

00:25:17Guest:Otherwise, all the same people.

00:25:18Guest:Bobby Keys, Ivor Neville.

00:25:21Marc:Bobby.

00:25:21Guest:Yeah.

00:25:23Marc:You know, I was looking at that.

00:25:25Marc:Like, I've listened to...

00:25:26Guest:words of wonder like four times i mean you really sang the shit out of that thing and that was it seems like that it'd been a while since you'd done a reggae song do you still listen to reggae now i do i listen to the old classic reggae quite you know quite a lot yeah yeah in fact i just got back from jamaica that ain't playing reggae down there anymore

00:25:50Marc:What's going on down there now, man?

00:25:53Guest:The usual, just about, you know, the usual funk rap.

00:25:56Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:25:57Guest:Hip hop.

00:25:57Guest:Hip hop, yeah.

00:25:58Marc:Well, it's weird because I think I have that box set.

00:26:01Marc:I don't even know who put it out, that Wingless Angels box set where it sounds like you're in a cave with a bunch of dudes.

00:26:09Guest:That's about it, yeah.

00:26:10Guest:Yeah.

00:26:13Marc:So what was it like playing with Steve on the tour?

00:26:16Marc:You know, I mean, you guys said a lot of nice things about Charlie, but what's the dynamic, you know, in terms of how he plays different than Charlie?

00:26:23Guest:Steve, very canny man.

00:26:25Guest:Because he can play like Charlie Watson.

00:26:28Guest:He didn't, you know, at the same time, he was trying to do a mix of how Charlie approaches things and then, but throwing in his own thing at the same time.

00:26:37Guest:And he's, uh,

00:26:38Guest:He's a master, man.

00:26:39Guest:He slotted in immediately.

00:26:41Guest:The whole band sort of responded.

00:26:43Guest:Yeah.

00:26:45Guest:And very simple.

00:26:48Guest:Mind you, we have been playing a lot.

00:26:50Guest:We all know each other.

00:26:51Guest:I mean, Steve's no stranger to the Stones.

00:26:56Guest:But it slotted in how you wish, what you hope for you got.

00:27:00Guest:And it was great.

00:27:02Guest:Yeah.

00:27:03Guest:It sounded good to me.

00:27:04Guest:Yeah, man.

00:27:04Guest:Good energy, good feel.

00:27:08Guest:You know, considering the circumstances with the COVID and everything, you know, a great tour, you know.

00:27:13Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:27:14Marc:Yeah, it was great.

00:27:15Marc:Yeah, in Florida, they didn't give a fuck about COVID, it seemed.

00:27:18Marc:I'm surprised none of you guys got COVID in Florida.

00:27:24Marc:You managed not to get it, huh?

00:27:26Guest:Yeah, we're careful, man.

00:27:27Guest:We run a ton of run a very pro tight ship, you know, in under circumstances like that.

00:27:34Guest:Our whole crew, nobody, everybody, you know, that's how you get through these things.

00:27:40Guest:Otherwise, bomb.

00:27:42Marc:Yeah.

00:27:42Marc:And you feeling pretty good, huh?

00:27:44Marc:The last time I talked to you is 2015.

00:27:47Marc:And, you know, I'm not going to take any credit for anything.

00:27:49Marc:But but I mentioned that you really need to do a blues record.

00:27:53Marc:And, you know, within a year you did a blues record.

00:27:55Marc:So, I mean, I'm not going to think that I had anything to do with that.

00:27:59Guest:But you can tell me.

00:28:02Guest:It was being cut when you were talking about it.

00:28:06Guest:Oh, it was?

00:28:07Guest:Yeah, because we cut it over a period of time, you know, that 15, 16.

00:28:12Guest:I got to tell you, man.

00:28:14Guest:I got to tell you.

00:28:15Guest:You're the same.

00:28:16Guest:That's what I was saying.

00:28:17Guest:Right.

00:28:17Marc:It's a great fucking record, Keith.

00:28:20Marc:It's a great fucking record.

00:28:22Guest:Yeah, it's the stuff, you know, I mean, as is.

00:28:24Guest:And yeah, I really liked it, man, you know.

00:28:27Marc:Because you know what's amazing about it is true, and you know this, right?

00:28:30Marc:So really, anyone can play blues.

00:28:34Marc:I sit here and play them, right?

00:28:36Marc:But that's what you guys came from, and that's what you aspire to.

00:28:39Marc:So to do it like whatever it is, 50 years later, to do a record that could have been the song list of your first record, and just the way you guys own that music, and it's uniquely the Stones playing blues, it's such a gift.

00:28:55Marc:Oh, thank you.

00:28:56Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:28:57Marc:And I loved it.

00:28:58Marc:I loved it.

00:28:59Marc:I listened to it all the time, man.

00:29:01Marc:I like, I, and I tell people about it.

00:29:02Marc:I'm like, cause you know, some, for some reason I'm like, you don't know about blue and lonesome.

00:29:06Marc:I'm like, I gotta, I gotta spread the word that you guys made a fucking blues record.

00:29:11Marc:That is just because you're a blues band.

00:29:14Marc:That's how it started.

00:29:15Marc:Yeah.

00:29:16Yeah.

00:29:16Marc:Are you going to do another one?

00:29:19Marc:Another blues record?

00:29:21Guest:You know, it can come up just like that.

00:29:25Guest:So I'm not cutting it out at all.

00:29:29Guest:It could happen.

00:29:31Guest:I'm not saying we're planning one right now, but blues records sort of happen in a studio when everybody's in a dead period and somebody picks up and starts playing that stuff.

00:29:41Guest:Yeah.

00:29:42Guest:And before you know it, you're cutting, you know.

00:29:44Marc:I just, I mean, you know, I just, I just love it, man.

00:29:47Marc:And I just like, who was it?

00:29:49Marc:Don was, did he, did he wrangle you guys?

00:29:52Marc:Yeah.

00:29:53Marc:Yeah.

00:29:54Marc:And how do you, like, how do you cut like little rain?

00:29:56Marc:I mean, hardly anyone knows that Jimmy Reed song and you guys, and it's, it sounded great, dude.

00:30:03Marc:How'd you figure it out?

00:30:05Guest:And we were just playing our favorites, man.

00:30:07Guest:Little rain was always a favorite of ours way back in the 62.

00:30:10Guest:Oh, really?

00:30:13Yeah.

00:30:13Marc:And then Eric's on one, and what, he was just down the hall or something?

00:30:16Marc:Yeah, he dropped by, yeah, for a, I forget which song.

00:30:20Marc:It was playing Slide.

00:30:21Marc:Yeah, that's so wild, man.

00:30:23Marc:I can't believe that record.

00:30:25Marc:Because I've been listening to, you know, I've been listening to, I just watched a documentary on Howlin' Wolf, and...

00:30:32Guest:holy shit that guy was amazing yeah yeah he was i've been reading about him funnily enough uh and how sam phillips uh found him oh yeah are you reading that sam phillips autobiography yeah it was not auto but it's uh peter what's his name yeah

00:30:49Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:30:49Marc:That's a great book.

00:30:50Marc:That guy's a smart guy.

00:30:52Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:30:52Guest:We did a TV show with Wolf on the West Coast.

00:30:58Guest:Nineteen sixty four.

00:31:00Guest:I think that's where we met him.

00:31:03Guest:Yeah.

00:31:04Guest:And also we recorded some stuff in London.

00:31:08Marc:Were you on that?

00:31:10Marc:Is there a Bill and Eric?

00:31:11Guest:I wasn't on that, but the Stones, Charlie was, and I think Bill Wyman.

00:31:16Marc:Steve Winwood, Eric Clapton, I think.

00:31:19Marc:Yeah, that's a pretty good one.

00:31:21Marc:That's a pretty good record.

00:31:22Marc:Yeah.

00:31:23Marc:Yeah, man.

00:31:23Marc:Do you ever talk to Bill?

00:31:25Marc:Do you ever say hi or what?

00:31:26Guest:Yeah, I saw him last time I was in London a year ago.

00:31:30Guest:Yeah.

00:31:31Guest:He's all right, man.

00:31:32Guest:They say more.

00:31:34Yeah.

00:31:35Marc:So what's the big plan, man?

00:31:38Marc:So this record's gonna come out.

00:31:39Marc:Now, after you do a tour, like you just got off of, usually when it's over, have you had enough of Mick for a little while?

00:31:49Marc:Is that...

00:31:52Guest:No, absolutely not true.

00:31:54Guest:As I told you, I'd been in Jamaica.

00:31:57Guest:I was in Jamaica with Mick.

00:32:00Guest:We spent a week together putting material together and just hanging around.

00:32:06Marc:I love hearing that.

00:32:08Marc:Well, that's nice.

00:32:09Marc:Everybody's so nice.

00:32:10Marc:Look at you.

00:32:11Marc:You're getting older and everyone's a nice guy.

00:32:13Marc:It's a nice year.

00:32:15Marc:So what are you putting together?

00:32:16Marc:Stones material?

00:32:18Guest:Yeah.

00:32:19Guest:Yeah.

00:32:19Guest:Steve Jordan was down there, too.

00:32:21Guest:And, you know.

00:32:22Guest:Oh, so you got some songs going.

00:32:26Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:32:27Guest:Yeah.

00:32:27Guest:That was the idea.

00:32:28Guest:That's what happened.

00:32:28Guest:Yeah.

00:32:29Marc:How many you got down?

00:32:31Guest:Man, I really can't count more than I can count.

00:32:34Marc:No.

00:32:35Guest:It was a very prolific week.

00:32:38Guest:Yeah.

00:32:38Marc:That's fucking great news, man.

00:32:40Marc:So you just sit around with the guitars and go?

00:32:43Guest:Yeah, no, we had a set up there, you know, bass drums.

00:32:48Guest:We got a pretty good sound going.

00:32:49Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:32:51Marc:Is it different?

00:32:52Guest:No, Jamaica's good for sound, Jim.

00:32:55Guest:Yeah.

00:32:55Marc:Cause that's what I noticed about main offender is that, you know, it's pretty timeless.

00:32:59Marc:It doesn't, you know, you didn't do any weird production things.

00:33:02Marc:It just, it's sort of there.

00:33:03Marc:And it's like, all the songs are just, you know, great Keith Richards songs.

00:33:07Marc:They just hold up.

00:33:08Marc:Yeah.

00:33:08Marc:What it is.

00:33:09Marc:So what, so what's the plan with the new music?

00:33:12Marc:Is it mostly a stone sound?

00:33:13Marc:Are you trying anything new?

00:33:14Guest:Hey, everything takes on, I was playing a lot of bass, so it was taking on a sort of another angle, but it's quite interesting.

00:33:25Guest:Oh, good.

00:33:27Guest:At the same time, it's Stones, and, you know, it's Stones.

00:33:34Guest:Right, right, right.

00:33:35Guest:that's the way it is but it's great fun and uh so yeah we're and because we're gearing up you know if we i presume or i hear that we're playing europe uh very shortly holy shit so how like you're going to go out again now don't do you do you love it i mean are you i mean do you you feel once a year i love to keep the hand in and it's nothing like it playing on stage uh

00:34:05Marc:oh so great it's so great like i like how i like everybody's got a different you know like it's funny that all of you guys are well you know you and ronnie and mick anyways are sort of like uh you're sort of aging into a an almost newer timing with each other you know like they're they're just something to happen naturally it's so beautiful because who who do you know like first of all you know you look great because you know you decided on a beanie and you stopped you know weaving your hair and with beads and i i like that but you know the beanie's nice it's

00:34:34Guest:clean look something to do but but everybody looks great so how's how's ron doing how's ron he good no i'm very good yeah absolutely yeah yeah we uh i was in we were in touch with him in jamaica via the phone you know yeah he's uh he's getting ready for the tour man all right

00:34:56Marc:All right.

00:34:57Marc:Well, that sounds fucking great.

00:34:58Marc:And I hope you do another blues record.

00:35:00Marc:Throw a blues cover on that new record.

00:35:03Marc:Okay, man.

00:35:03Marc:And take care of yourself.

00:35:04Marc:It's always great seeing you.

00:35:06Marc:And I really, like, I loved listening to this record again.

00:35:09Marc:And as I said, I'm not a big box set guy, but Jesus, this thing is beautiful.

00:35:13Marc:It's beautiful.

00:35:14Marc:You can just sit there and look at the picture.

00:35:16Marc:Oh, I remember.

00:35:17Marc:There's pictures in here.

00:35:18Marc:What's with the strats?

00:35:20Marc:Like, I don't think I've ever seen you with a strat.

00:35:21Marc:There's pictures of you.

00:35:23Marc:no it's every now and again you know it depends on the song you know yeah you like that p90 sound recently though right yeah that's that dirty sound it was it sounds great man yeah but i i just i love it man love you love seeing you glad you're well my love okay mark thanks yeah take it easy man you too

00:35:49Marc:fucking keith richards man all right look what it's so fun it's so fun i gotta get that beanie though you can order the box set from keithrichards.com okay and someone tell me listen i'm serious about the beanie i want to know where to get the beanie i want to know where to get the beanie

00:36:08Marc:All right, here's the full interview that we did at the NPR studios in New York in 2015.

00:36:15Marc:That was where he was talking in the morning edition I just kind of piggybacked on.

00:36:19Marc:And I smoked a cigarette.

00:36:23Marc:Keith Richards got me to smoke a cigarette.

00:36:26Marc:I knew what I was getting into.

00:36:32Guest:Hey man, nice to meet you.

00:36:47Guest:Wow, let's do it.

00:36:49Guest:Okay.

00:36:52Marc:We're on.

00:36:53Marc:We're on.

00:36:55Marc:I got my nicotine candies.

00:36:56Marc:You got yours?

00:36:57Guest:Oh, baby, yeah.

00:36:59Marc:Right here.

00:36:59Marc:You got the real ones.

00:37:02Marc:Oh, I miss the Marlboro Reds.

00:37:05Marc:Yeah.

00:37:06Marc:I actually thought about smoking.

00:37:08Marc:I thought if there was a time to start again, it would be with you.

00:37:12Yeah.

00:37:12Marc:Let me just hold one.

00:37:16Marc:Yeah.

00:37:17Marc:You can just look at it if you like.

00:37:19Marc:Thank you very much.

00:37:20Marc:Yeah, man.

00:37:21Marc:What are we drinking this afternoon?

00:37:22Guest:Nuclear waste.

00:37:23Marc:Oh, perfect.

00:37:24Marc:That's good.

00:37:25Marc:Yeah.

00:37:26Marc:You've adapted to it.

00:37:27Marc:No problem.

00:37:29Guest:I'm the head of the game.

00:37:32Marc:I figured you'd drink nuclear waste.

00:37:34Marc:You have to, right?

00:37:34Marc:Just to keep going?

00:37:35Guest:No, just to talk to you.

00:37:39Marc:I'm dying to figure out whether I'm going to light this fucking cigarette.

00:37:42Marc:You know what's interesting?

00:37:43Marc:Let's see if you can hold out.

00:37:45Marc:Okay, I'll try.

00:37:46Marc:I'll try.

00:37:47Marc:It's been about a decade, but I think I talked to you briefly on the phone.

00:37:52Marc:I don't know if you remember.

00:37:53Marc:I'd like to think you would remember.

00:37:55Marc:We talked.

00:37:56Marc:I told you that I started smoking because of you.

00:37:58Marc:I started drinking.

00:37:59Marc:Oh, you're the one.

00:38:00Marc:I'm the one.

00:38:01Marc:Good one.

00:38:02Marc:That's good.

00:38:03Marc:But it was funny because I remember reading an interview with you and they asked you what kind of cigarettes you smoke.

00:38:08Marc:And he said, well, Newport, sometimes Marlboro Reds.

00:38:11Marc:So I was about 14.

00:38:12Marc:I went out and got a pack of both and just played it out.

00:38:14Marc:See what stuck.

00:38:15Marc:I don't know where they got the Newports from.

00:38:17Marc:You never said it.

00:38:18Marc:Never tried it.

00:38:19Guest:Marlboro Reds, yeah.

00:38:20Marc:Yeah, right?

00:38:22Marc:Well, whatever.

00:38:22Marc:I was walking around with both in high school trying to figure out how to be Keith Richards.

00:38:27Guest:Oh, man.

00:38:27Marc:Yeah, it was a rough few years.

00:38:29Guest:I was in school trying to figure out how to be Keith Richards, too.

00:38:34Marc:Strange, isn't it?

00:38:35Marc:You figured it out.

00:38:37Marc:I interviewed the president a few weeks ago, and I'm actually a little more frazzled about this because presidents come and go, but you're Keith Richards.

00:38:45Marc:You remain forever.

00:38:46Guest:Yeah, that's one of the blessings.

00:38:50Guest:You're like royalty, man.

00:38:52Guest:Oh, I don't know about that.

00:38:53Guest:I've no crown.

00:38:54Guest:Yeah, are you sure?

00:38:57Marc:I think you do.

00:38:58Marc:I think you do.

00:38:59Marc:Well, this is like a... I'll get through the nerves in a minute, but it's a big deal to meet you because you're a big idol of mine.

00:39:05Marc:Now, when you started playing and you guys started to sort of come into your own, do you remember the first idol of yours that you met?

00:39:15Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:39:19Guest:Little Richard.

00:39:20Marc:Really?

00:39:20Marc:Yeah.

00:39:21Guest:And Bo Diddley.

00:39:22Guest:Really?

00:39:22Guest:Yeah, because we suddenly, we were thrown onto this tour.

00:39:26Guest:I mean, before that, we'd been working clubs, you know.

00:39:28Guest:I mean, suddenly we had a record.

00:39:31Guest:Yeah.

00:39:32Guest:And we were thrown on this tour with Little Richard, Bo Diddley, and the Everly Brothers.

00:39:38Guest:And I suddenly met half of my mentors.

00:39:45Guest:And I'm working with them, too, which was an amazing education.

00:39:52Guest:I mean, that's a university for me.

00:39:55Guest:Did you talk to Bo?

00:39:56Guest:Did you ask him questions?

00:39:58Guest:Yeah, we were on the road for like three or four weeks.

00:40:00Guest:Really?

00:40:01Guest:Yeah.

00:40:02Guest:I used to take care of... Jerome Green was his maracas player.

00:40:05Guest:And Jerome was a great lush.

00:40:10Guest:And it was my job to get him out of the pub, to get him on stage.

00:40:15Guest:It's funny, I think those roles changed later in life.

00:40:18Guest:Yeah, I mean, I was willingly happy to do it.

00:40:23Guest:Jerome was a loose cannon.

00:40:24Guest:And somebody had to do it.

00:40:27Guest:Right.

00:40:28Guest:So we ended up becoming great buddies and Bo.

00:40:33Guest:Little Richard was amazing to watch.

00:40:36Guest:Yeah.

00:40:36Guest:His stagecraft, let alone his music.

00:40:40Guest:I mean, he had an English band with him, which they weren't bad.

00:40:43Guest:A pickup band?

00:40:45Guest:Yeah, yeah, basically.

00:40:47Guest:But they were pretty good.

00:40:49Guest:But I mean, I'd have wished he had his own band with him.

00:40:52Guest:But at the same time,

00:40:54Guest:Man, the way he would, you never knew where he was going to appear from.

00:40:59Guest:Right, right, right.

00:41:00Guest:I mean, he'd let that band play Lucille at the riff.

00:41:05Guest:Right.

00:41:06Guest:For like five minutes, you know, nonstop.

00:41:09Guest:Right.

00:41:09Guest:In total darkness, you know.

00:41:13Guest:And then he'd turn up.

00:41:14Guest:In the back of the auditorium, you know, with the spotlight on him.

00:41:20Marc:And walked through the crowd?

00:41:21Guest:Yeah, and then walked through.

00:41:22Guest:And I went, wow, the way you can work a room, man.

00:41:26Guest:I'm learning.

00:41:27Guest:I'm learning things.

00:41:28Marc:Right.

00:41:29Marc:But you almost been learning things.

00:41:31Guest:Yeah, and the Everly Brothers, I mean, so meticulously beautiful.

00:41:35Marc:Those harmonies, right?

00:41:37Marc:Wow.

00:41:38Marc:And you were with them for like three weeks you did that tour?

00:41:40Marc:Yeah, yeah, 63.

00:41:42Marc:So that was before England's newest hitmakers, or around the same time?

00:41:46Guest:It had just come out about the same time.

00:41:48Guest:When was the last time you listened to that record?

00:41:54Guest:The odd track.

00:41:57Marc:It's a weird thing, because I listen to that record a lot, and I came to the Stones much later, because I'm 51, so I was picking it up.

00:42:06Marc:But that record, I played the shit out of that record.

00:42:08Marc:To me, that was the pure intention, the birth of it all.

00:42:13Guest:yeah in a way i guess it was it was for us anyway and uh and it was recorded in this little room that uh that professed to call itself a studio yeah um and uh the whole walls were covered in egg boxes that was called soundproof right yeah top notch and uh it was a grundig two-track

00:42:37Guest:But it was hung on the wall.

00:42:39Guest:Yeah.

00:42:39Guest:Instead of, if it was on the table, it would have looked like, you know, I'm pro.

00:42:44Guest:But it was hung on the wall.

00:42:46Guest:Give it a professional feel.

00:42:47Guest:Yeah, we cut the whole damn thing on that, you know.

00:42:50Guest:And it was, so I started on two track.

00:42:54Guest:Right.

00:42:55Guest:Basic.

00:42:56Marc:Did you do Honest I Do?

00:42:58Marc:Yeah.

00:42:58Marc:On that one?

00:42:59Marc:Can I get a witness?

00:43:00Marc:Can I get a witness?

00:43:01Marc:Yeah.

00:43:02Marc:Tell me.

00:43:03Marc:Tell me.

00:43:04Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:43:05Marc:And like that, you set out to be a blues band.

00:43:08Marc:Yeah.

00:43:08Marc:Right?

00:43:09Marc:That was the intention.

00:43:10Marc:Pure, straight up.

00:43:11Guest:Yeah.

00:43:12Marc:And at that time, you know who I talked to?

00:43:14Marc:I don't know if you guys are friends or not.

00:43:16Marc:A couple weeks ago, I talked to Richard Thompson.

00:43:19Marc:Oh, yes, yeah.

00:43:20Guest:We're not friends because I hardly ever see him, but I know the man.

00:43:26Marc:I think he was a little younger, but he was talking about the scene in London at that time.

00:43:31Marc:There were so many bands, and you guys would all see each other late at night, like at restaurants, and see each other play all the time.

00:43:36Marc:And what was the scene you were involved in?

00:43:38Marc:It was all blues, right?

00:43:40Guest:Yeah, I mean, we were strictly, at that time, at the beginning of the Stones, strictly, you know, we were almost Jesuits.

00:43:51Guest:Well, let's say missionary.

00:43:54Guest:But no, our whole aim was to turn London on to, like,

00:43:58Guest:you know, rhythm and blues on the blues.

00:44:00Guest:Right.

00:44:01Guest:That was like the scope for the whole universe would be that, you know, and to have three or four or five gigs a week.

00:44:11Guest:And, you know, and that would be, you know, that's it, you know.

00:44:15Marc:Who were your guys early on?

00:44:17Marc:Who were the dudes that you were the most trying to emulate on the guitar, like before Chuck, the straight-up blues dudes?

00:44:23Marc:T-Bone Walker.

00:44:25Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:27Guest:Muddy Waters.

00:44:28Guest:Right.

00:44:29Guest:Very simply buddy guy.

00:44:30Guest:Yeah.

00:44:31Guest:Slim Harpo, or was that later?

00:44:34Guest:Yeah, Slim Harpo.

00:44:37Guest:Jimmy Rhee.

00:44:38Guest:Yeah, Jimmy Rhee was hard on Jimmy Rhee, because we were not so much interested in being virtuosos.

00:44:47Guest:how those guys got that sound.

00:44:50Guest:Right, right.

00:44:51Guest:And to us, it was the thing of trying to get close to making that kind of sound.

00:45:01Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:45:01Guest:And we studied, man.

00:45:05Marc:What, you and Brian?

00:45:05Guest:We studied and starved.

00:45:07Marc:Yeah.

00:45:08Marc:What was Brian's thing?

00:45:09Marc:What was he into most?

00:45:10Marc:Were you both in the same thing?

00:45:11Marc:Brian was very big into Jimmy Reed.

00:45:13Marc:Okay, yeah, so that's where that came from.

00:45:15Guest:Yeah, mm-hmm.

00:45:16Guest:Well, so Mick and I were also into it, but Brian had the records.

00:45:21Guest:Right, right.

00:45:22Guest:We didn't, you know, Mick had the Muddy Waters and I had the Chuck Berry.

00:45:28Guest:Brian had the Jimmy Reed.

00:45:30Guest:Okay, all right.

00:45:31Guest:So, I mean, there was an obvious collection, you know, and a connection.

00:45:35Guest:But Jimmy Reed stuff, I still think is some of the most beautifully recorded stuff and it's so simple.

00:45:41Marc:Yeah, he does a weird thing right on the five.

00:45:45Marc:He leaves that open.

00:45:47Guest:Yeah, because if you're playing in E, when he's playing the five chord, he lets the three chord, the seventh note, still hang.

00:45:56Guest:Right, he leaves the A open, right?

00:45:59Guest:Yeah, he leaves it open.

00:46:00Guest:I learned that from Bobby Goldsboro.

00:46:03Guest:Oh, really?

00:46:04Guest:Yeah.

00:46:05Guest:He hit you to that?

00:46:06Guest:He hit me to that because he'd been on the road with Jimmy Reed.

00:46:10Guest:So he helps me to, you know, the weird thing that makes that sound is like he does this.

00:46:16Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:46:16Guest:He leaves the open A string going, you know.

00:46:20Guest:Oh, man.

00:46:22Guest:I've been trying to get that for years.

00:46:23Guest:I would never have figured it.

00:46:25Marc:It's funny how those moments happen.

00:46:27Marc:I mentioned they must have been a few of those moments, like when you were putting together your chops, where you're like, oh, fuck, that's how that goes.

00:46:33Guest:Yeah.

00:46:33Guest:Are you kidding me?

00:46:35Guest:I mean, keep looking, you know, how did he pull that lick off?

00:46:41Guest:Right.

00:46:42Marc:Even with Chuck, when you did that fucking movie with him?

00:46:44Guest:Yeah, man.

00:46:47Guest:Bless his heart.

00:46:49Marc:When he had the argument about the beginning of O'Carroll?

00:46:52Marc:Yeah.

00:46:52Guest:That was touch and go, man.

00:46:54Guest:Well, that was him testing me out, you know, and pushing...

00:47:00Guest:Chuck always has to be numero uno.

00:47:04Guest:After all, the movie's about Chuck.

00:47:08Guest:To me, I'm living my childhood dream of being a second guitar behind Chuck Berry.

00:47:15Marc:You never knew what a pain in the ass that would be, I guess.

00:47:20Guest:I tell you what, at the same time, he's a funny guy.

00:47:25Guest:Just, what is it, mercurial.

00:47:28Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:29Guest:One minute, he's like, grouch, and then he'd piss off for half an hour.

00:47:36Guest:Yeah.

00:47:37Guest:And he'd come back, and he'd be...

00:47:39Guest:Back on top.

00:47:40Guest:What, did he take a hit or something?

00:47:46Guest:He was a great movie changer, but incredible to work with.

00:47:53Guest:And I think my best feat out of that was when I said to Chuck Berry, Johnny Johnson stood around, because...

00:48:09Guest:Ian Stewart, who had just died that year, who was the Stones piano player.

00:48:13Marc:From the beginning.

00:48:13Guest:From the beginning.

00:48:14Guest:I mean, actually, I consider the Stones to be Ian's band.

00:48:18Marc:Really?

00:48:19Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:48:20Guest:He put it together.

00:48:21Guest:Really?

00:48:21Guest:He poured us together.

00:48:22Guest:Without him, we wouldn't have coagulated.

00:48:25Guest:Uh-huh.

00:48:27Marc:And he only got pushed, he stopped being in the main lineup because, what happened?

00:48:33Guest:Oh, well, he wasn't good looking enough, and it was like, they thought six was too many.

00:48:38Guest:Okay.

00:48:38Guest:Stu, having the largest heart in the world, said, yeah, I understand that.

00:48:44Guest:That's cool.

00:48:45Guest:But we recorded.

00:48:46Guest:It was still his band.

00:48:47Guest:And he became our roadie, our manager, road manager and everything.

00:48:53Guest:take care of everything so i think that's ian stewart that considered us his baby and i consider him my dad oh that's sweet but so your relationship with ian sort of made you reach out and find johnny yeah because the last thing that uh ian stewart ever told me is uh and this was just before he died yeah don't forget keith

00:49:14Guest:that johnny johnson is alive and playing in st louis ian said that to you yeah yeah and within a year i'm working with chuck berry yeah and i was saying you know in my mind i'm saying well without johnny johnson is you know it's never going to be the same so i say to chuck

00:49:36Guest:Hey, Chuck, you know, Johnny around?

00:49:40Guest:Yeah.

00:49:42Guest:And Chuck comes in a very dead path.

00:49:45Guest:Yeah, he's in town.

00:49:49Guest:Any chance of getting him together on this thing?

00:49:54Guest:I'll give him a call.

00:49:55Guest:Yeah.

00:49:57Guest:And the next day there was Johnny, and then I realized I had... The band.

00:50:01Guest:The stuff.

00:50:02Guest:Yeah.

00:50:03Guest:And I realized I had the stuff that had actually made Chuck's records.

00:50:07Marc:Sounds so good.

00:50:08Marc:Yeah.

00:50:08Marc:And that he literally learned how to play those licks from Johnny's piano playing.

00:50:12Guest:Yeah.

00:50:13Marc:That Johnny was first.

00:50:14Guest:Yeah, actually.

00:50:15Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:50:15Marc:It's weird when I watch that movie because I've been a fan of yours my whole life, but I'm not sure I necessarily understood how complicated the rhythm of Chuck Berry is and how you deconstructed that to get your shit.

00:50:33Guest:Yeah, it's a variation on the name, but Chuck and I basically play the same.

00:50:37Guest:It's basically the role.

00:50:39Guest:It's syncopation.

00:50:42Guest:And for that you need

00:50:44Guest:a drummer that you can totally rely on, you know.

00:50:47Guest:Yeah.

00:50:48Guest:And which was, unfortunately for Chuck, once he'd used pickup bands for... Went away.

00:50:53Guest:Yeah, because he couldn't rely on the drummer, and they were just bands he'd never met, you know.

00:50:58Guest:Right.

00:50:58Guest:Which was unfortunate in that respect.

00:51:01Guest:Because there's a bounce to it.

00:51:03Guest:But I've no doubt Chuck walked out with the money.

00:51:07Guest:In a briefcase.

00:51:08Guest:Yeah.

00:51:08Guest:In a Cadillac.

00:51:09Guest:I know that briefcase.

00:51:12Marc:But that's it.

00:51:13Marc:That's a bounce.

00:51:13Marc:There's a bounce, right?

00:51:15Guest:It's a cut against the beat.

00:51:17Guest:But the drama has to be right on for you to be able to chop the beat around and move it and make it roll.

00:51:25Guest:That's the roll in the rock.

00:51:26Guest:Right.

00:51:27Guest:And that's Charlie.

00:51:28Marc:yeah solid because i count on that man a lot yeah fantastic yeah you know uh i imagine you you know but yeah i think what was abco reissued a few uh of the old ones yeah they reissued uh get your yaya's out right so i used i used to listen to that in high school right and i put on the reissue and i had this moment in my living room where i'm like holy

00:51:51Marc:Bill and Charlie are holding this whole thing together right now.

00:51:58Marc:Nothing like a good rhythm section.

00:52:02Marc:Until I heard that remaster and the way you guys were all fitting together, I was like, Jesus, man, that's so solid.

00:52:08Marc:But I don't know why, I think in the live situation, I think Mick even said something about it, that they were nailing it that night.

00:52:14Marc:Do you have memories of those nights in particular that you recorded?

00:52:18Guest:And you know, when you're on stage, quite honestly, no, because I'm not thinking about we're being recorded or filmed, which is even worse, because people get aware of the cameras and they start to tighten up.

00:52:34Guest:No tightening up.

00:52:36Guest:I try and forget all about the...

00:52:41Marc:know what's going on around me.

00:52:43Marc:Yeah.

00:52:43Guest:Just do the gig.

00:52:45Marc:Yeah.

00:52:46Marc:Yeah, I saw you in San Diego, I went, just now, the first night of the tour.

00:52:50Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:52:50Guest:It got better and better.

00:52:52Marc:And that was a good show.

00:52:53Marc:It was a good show.

00:52:54Marc:It was a great show.

00:52:55Marc:I was nervous.

00:52:56Marc:I was nervous for you.

00:52:57Marc:I don't know what the hell's wrong with you.

00:52:58Marc:I love you.

00:52:59Marc:I love you.

00:53:00Marc:I hadn't been to see you in a long time.

00:53:04Marc:I saw you guys in 81 at Madison Square Garden when, I guess it was probably the Tattoo You Tour, and Screamin' Jay Hawkins opened for some reason.

00:53:13Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:53:14Marc:I think James Brown was supposed to, and then something happened.

00:53:17Marc:I don't know what happened.

00:53:18Marc:I probably didn't like Screamin' Jay.

00:53:21Marc:I don't know, but it was just weird.

00:53:22Marc:Screamin' Jay comes out with the voodoo stick.

00:53:24Marc:I don't even think he had a fucking band with him.

00:53:26Marc:Everyone in Madison Square Garden was like, what's happening?

00:53:29Marc:And then you guys came out, and I didn't go see you because, I don't know, it was strange for me when Bill left.

00:53:35Marc:Was it strange for you?

00:53:37Marc:Absolutely.

00:53:38Marc:I was furious.

00:53:41Guest:I sent out the hit men.

00:53:44Guest:Except I love him so much.

00:53:46Guest:I can't go that far.

00:53:48Guest:I'll just break your legs.

00:53:50Guest:It was a hard call, man.

00:53:52Guest:What, did he tire out?

00:53:54Guest:Yeah, and also he developed this fear of flying.

00:53:59Guest:Oh, really?

00:54:01Guest:So he was like driving to every gig, which is like, you know, sometimes they were so far away.

00:54:06Guest:Right.

00:54:07Guest:And eventually he decided, and it was his decision to call it the day, and...

00:54:14Guest:I said, you're kidding me, man.

00:54:17Guest:What are you going to do, right?

00:54:19Guest:You're in the RAF in 1956.

00:54:23Guest:Yeah, right.

00:54:25Guest:Schlepping around in Germany.

00:54:27Guest:Yeah.

00:54:28Guest:And he was adamant and he made his decision and maybe it was right for him.

00:54:35Guest:Right.

00:54:35Guest:And all I can say is that

00:54:38Guest:Ooh, I get Daryl Jones.

00:54:40Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:54:41Marc:He was great.

00:54:42Marc:It was great.

00:54:42Marc:It was the first time I'd seen you guys in a long time.

00:54:45Marc:And like I said, I was nervous because I hadn't seen you in 35 years.

00:54:49Marc:And man, what a fucking... You sounded great.

00:54:52Marc:And I mean, there was moments there where, you know, there... We've improved over time.

00:54:56Marc:You've gotten good.

00:54:57Marc:I think you're really tight right now.

00:54:58Marc:You're good right now.

00:54:59Marc:I'm going to take it up.

00:55:01Marc:Yeah.

00:55:02Marc:But the experience of it was, like, there was moments where Mick was running, you know, running back and forth.

00:55:11Marc:Do you ever, like, at the point where you guys are at now, you know, I mean, we're mature gentlemen.

00:55:16Marc:You're a little more mature than me.

00:55:17Marc:Do you have moments where you're like, I hope he doesn't fall the fuck down?

00:55:20Guest:Oh, no, I never worry about it.

00:55:22Guest:No, Mick is so nimble, man.

00:55:24Guest:It's crazy.

00:55:25Guest:Yeah.

00:55:26Guest:I mean, Charlie and I always watch Mick in case when you get out in the audience that you're not hearing the beat the same as it actually is.

00:55:39Guest:But we're actually experts in it.

00:55:41Guest:He's crossed the beat.

00:55:43Guest:Okay.

00:55:44Marc:You changed the mic?

00:55:46Guest:Yeah.

00:55:46Guest:Oh, we're like a safety net under Mick.

00:55:49Guest:He doesn't realize it for me.

00:55:50Guest:I mean, Charlie and I always say, okay.

00:55:55Guest:We got him.

00:55:56Guest:We can actually do that.

00:55:57Guest:That's hilarious.

00:55:58Guest:Yeah.

00:55:59Guest:Well, that's where the job of a band is to support the front man.

00:56:03Marc:Yeah.

00:56:03Marc:And now, when we talked before, you talk a lot about the band and your band and the band, but I have to assume that when you guys started out, you know, at the beginning, you were just a bunch of buddies, right?

00:56:16Guest:Yeah.

00:56:16Marc:Yeah, and it just evolved into this thing.

00:56:18Marc:Brought together by the music.

00:56:20Marc:Right.

00:56:21Marc:Who was the guy that you guys used to play with or play at his club when he started?

00:56:25Marc:Was it Alex Corner?

00:56:26Marc:Is that who it was?

00:56:27Marc:Yeah, Alexis Corner.

00:56:28Marc:Alexis Corner.

00:56:29Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:56:30Guest:The Ealing Club, yeah.

00:56:31Marc:And he was like a blues empresario?

00:56:33Guest:Yeah, he at the time probably had...

00:56:38Guest:The blues nailed down in London.

00:56:42Guest:If you wanted to hear blues, you had to see Alexis.

00:56:45Guest:He's the only guy playing it, basically.

00:56:47Guest:Right, right.

00:56:48Guest:Also, he had Cyril Davis.

00:56:50Guest:He was a great harp player with him.

00:56:54Guest:They were good.

00:56:56Guest:Alexis wasn't particularly that good.

00:57:00Guest:I remember Alexis one night invited Mick and me up to do a number.

00:57:08Guest:And Mick and I said, we're going to do Roll Over Beethoven.

00:57:13Guest:Yeah.

00:57:14Guest:Alexis, he used to use a thumb pick.

00:57:17Guest:Okay, yeah, yeah.

00:57:19Guest:He cut his strings and, oh, I'll leave it to you.

00:57:21Guest:And you just took it?

00:57:22Guest:Yeah, no, yeah.

00:57:23Guest:He didn't want to play that rock and roll.

00:57:25Guest:Oh really?

00:57:26Guest:So he's a real purist?

00:57:27Guest:Well kind of.

00:57:29Guest:Also he appreciated rock and roll and everything but I mean he knew that he couldn't, he wouldn't be an addition.

00:57:38Marc:I'm gonna bow out on this one.

00:57:40Marc:Well, on the new record, you know, I listened to it like a couple of times.

00:57:46Marc:Cross-Eyed Hearts, the name of the record, right?

00:57:48Marc:Yeah.

00:57:48Marc:So the first song, like I noticed, like, you're going way back for that.

00:57:52Marc:I mean, that's pre-Jimmy Reed, that's pre-Muddy Horse, Robert Johnson.

00:57:56Guest:That's Robert Johnson.

00:57:57Guest:Because I noticed, like, it is... It's the tip of the hat to Robert Johnson.

00:57:59Marc:It's like Hellhounds on my trail almost, man.

00:58:01Marc:It's just a piece.

00:58:03Marc:You can hear you breathing.

00:58:05Marc:You can hear every squeak of your fingers and every pig.

00:58:09Marc:It's all very raw and organic.

00:58:12Marc:And then you're just like, that's all I got.

00:58:16Marc:That's the riff.

00:58:18Marc:It's almost like a blues meditation.

00:58:21Guest:You know what I mean?

00:58:23Guest:I thought that would be when we got all the tracks together.

00:58:27Guest:If we're going to

00:58:28Guest:put that blues in, might as well be the starter.

00:58:31Guest:And then it's like,

00:58:35Guest:When people walk into movies and they say, you know, the overture.

00:58:41Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:43Marc:It's a subtle overture.

00:58:44Marc:And then you bookended it with Goodnight Irene, another blues, different style, more of a folk blues, but on both sides, you've got Lead Belly.

00:58:54Marc:Yeah, you've got Lead Belly and Robert just holding it all in.

00:58:57Guest:Yeah.

00:58:57Guest:I wanted to do a couple of classic American folk songs.

00:59:05Right.

00:59:05Guest:And the weird thing that happened is that Tom Waits had sent me a big book on Lead Belly, and it had just arrived, and I just put it on the table.

00:59:16Guest:Yeah.

00:59:18Guest:And at the same time, a few hours later, in walks my guitar man, Pierre de Beauport.

00:59:23Marc:How long have you been with that guy?

00:59:24Marc:A million years, right?

00:59:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:59:28Guest:Since early 90s, 91.

00:59:33Guest:Brilliant guitar.

00:59:34Guest:I mean, I'm lost without him.

00:59:37Guest:He decides which guitar I'm going to play on songs.

00:59:40Guest:That's how much I trust him.

00:59:44Guest:He walked in with this 12-string.

00:59:46Guest:So I'm looking at this book of Lead Belly that Tom Waits has just sent me, and I'm looking at this 12-string, and I'm saying, I have no choice.

00:59:56Guest:I've been ordered to do a good night, Irene.

00:59:58Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:00Guest:It's pretty haunting music, some of his stuff, huh?

01:00:02Guest:Oh yeah, Lead Belly was... Deep.

01:00:05Guest:Deep.

01:00:05Guest:And I found the original lyrics, you know, which are much... I know, I didn't know them.

01:00:10Guest:Yeah, they're much raunchier than... Right.

01:00:13Guest:Because then it became, you know, you'd get the black and white minstrels singing it, I mean... Right.

01:00:18Guest:And it became like an American folk song.

01:00:22Guest:Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:23Guest:And people would waltz to it and stuff.

01:00:26Marc:But it was kind of a dirty song.

01:00:27Guest:The real show.

01:00:28Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:30Marc:So you've got a guitar guy, this guy Pierre, but you're pretty committed to a handful of guitars.

01:00:36Marc:There's four or five that you play pretty much all the time.

01:00:39Marc:Yeah, pretty much.

01:00:41Marc:When it comes down to work, yeah.

01:00:43Marc:And I was watching, I was trying to figure it out on stage, because I bought a Tele because of you, way back when.

01:00:48Marc:Not a good one, but I had it.

01:00:50Marc:I think you were on the cover of Guitar Player, but I think you had one that was altered.

01:00:54Marc:I don't remember.

01:00:54Marc:The rhythm pickup was regular, and then there was a humbucker.

01:00:59Marc:You know, on the lead pickup.

01:01:01Marc:We do screw around with them.

01:01:03Guest:We do rewire them.

01:01:05Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:01:05Guest:And we do play around with the pickups on them, yeah.

01:01:08Marc:And you play that 54 all the time, that cream one, right?

01:01:11Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:01:12Marc:For years.

01:01:13Marc:Years, yeah, but I've been bashing the hell out of it still, you know.

01:01:16Marc:What do you go into, though?

01:01:17Marc:You're not pedal guy now, are you?

01:01:19Marc:No pedals?

01:01:20Marc:No, no.

01:01:20Marc:Just straight in.

01:01:21Guest:Hey, man, it's enough to stand up straight.

01:01:26Guest:There's them poking around on buttons.

01:01:29Marc:So you just change the volume when you need to.

01:01:31Guest:Yeah, and also the...

01:01:34Guest:I mean, any of those effects that I need actually can be done from behind.

01:01:38Guest:PSA if we need.

01:01:40Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:01:43Guest:Because I need to know where to put my feet.

01:01:45Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:01:46Guest:I mean, tripping over those boxes.

01:01:49Marc:Yeah.

01:01:50Marc:that just ties you down.

01:01:51Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:52Marc:Now, what made you decide, because when I talked to you before, you guys were maybe going to do Sticky Fingers.

01:01:58Marc:You're going to run all three.

01:01:59Marc:But that died in one night.

01:02:01Marc:And the recording of it sounded great.

01:02:03Marc:So what made you the next night decide, like, no, we're not going to do it?

01:02:07Guest:Well, I don't know.

01:02:10Guest:Maybe Mick's a better one to ask on that.

01:02:12Guest:But, you know, you just thought, and I think we all thought that...

01:02:16Guest:you know doing it the whole thing once was enough and we were yeah that actually was sweating our balls getting through it you know well you know but hey the whole album you know sure uh the hardest one to play and my most beautiful ones is i got the blues right which is so slow yeah and it's very the hardest thing

01:02:38Guest:For a band is to keep a slow tempo down.

01:02:43Guest:I mean, everything tends to speed up.

01:02:45Guest:So it has to be, you know, that Steve Gropper was great at that.

01:02:51Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:55Guest:And Al Jackson, the drummer, you know, in Memphis.

01:02:59Marc:But you guys didn't want to drop into that.

01:03:02Marc:I also noticed, I think that to be the greatest rock and roll band and the biggest rock and roll show, you've got to be big.

01:03:11Marc:You know what I mean?

01:03:12Marc:You did Moonlight Mile, which was beautiful.

01:03:14Marc:He hit those fucking notes.

01:03:16Marc:That was crazy.

01:03:17Guest:Yeah.

01:03:19Guest:I started to like playing that on the stage.

01:03:21Guest:At first, I thought that...

01:03:22Guest:It's going out on a limb here, Mick.

01:03:26Guest:It's a little sparse.

01:03:28Guest:But as we got into it, it was beautiful to play and great fun, and they were loving it out there.

01:03:35Marc:Speaking of Otis, I was thinking about, because he could lay back on that groove, but I was thinking about, after Satisfaction was a hit, and then he decided to cover it, that must have been a big fucking day.

01:03:49Marc:Yeah, that was...

01:03:50Guest:That was, put another crown on, baby.

01:03:53Guest:Yeah, right.

01:03:54Guest:I mean, for one of our songs to be covered by one of the greatest R&B singers of all time, it was, you know, I mean, you know,

01:04:05Guest:Let's die and go to heaven, or wherever.

01:04:12Guest:Because that was basically the cream on the whole thing.

01:04:15Guest:And then Aretha did it.

01:04:17Guest:And then we were like in double heaven.

01:04:23Guest:No, it was great to get that respect and that respond and reciprocation back from, hey, after all, he played black music.

01:04:32Guest:Right.

01:04:32Guest:I mean, why does white can be?

01:04:35Marc:Yeah, and he found that groove, though.

01:04:37Marc:Like, you know, to make that a soul song was something, huh?

01:04:41Marc:Yeah.

01:04:41Guest:It was amazing.

01:04:42Guest:And it was just amazing that these people that respected and admired so much would do one of our songs.

01:04:49Marc:And then you played with, on this record, on the new record, you used Spooner Oldham, right?

01:04:53Marc:Spooner's there, yeah.

01:04:54Marc:And he played with Aretha on some of the big hits, right?

01:04:57Marc:Down in Muscle Shoals.

01:04:59Marc:So that must have been amazing to work with that guy.

01:05:00Marc:You'd worked with him before?

01:05:02Guest:No, first time I've ever met Spooner.

01:05:05Guest:Although I've known him, I feel like I've known him for years because he's been on...

01:05:10Guest:So many records.

01:05:11Guest:It was actually Graham Parsons that first pointed out Spooner Odom to me.

01:05:16Marc:Really?

01:05:17Guest:And that was in like 71.

01:05:19Marc:He knew it.

01:05:21Marc:He felt it.

01:05:21Guest:Graham knew country music.

01:05:24Guest:Spooner was basically a country music player at that time.

01:05:28Guest:I didn't even know that he was still around.

01:05:30Guest:And a couple of phone calls, Steve Jordan, bless his heart, the man I worked with,

01:05:36Guest:who co-wrote these songs with me and produced it.

01:05:41Guest:Great drummer.

01:05:43Guest:Fantastic drummer.

01:05:44Marc:Been playing with him a long time on your solo stuff.

01:05:47Guest:Yeah, Charlie Watts said to me in about 85, 86, we knew the Stones were going to take a

01:05:56Guest:hiatus or hibernation or whatever you want to call it.

01:06:00Guest:And Charlie Watts said, if you're going to work with anybody else, Steve Jordan's your man.

01:06:08Guest:Oh, yeah?

01:06:09Guest:And I took him at his work.

01:06:11Guest:I listened to Charlie.

01:06:12Guest:And Steve and I started to work together.

01:06:18Guest:Not only we just sort of

01:06:19Guest:work together we fell into each other's arms and uh he's a great friend of mine that's great yeah it's beautiful man yeah i mean it's nice to walk into a studio with a bunch of dudes you know and you know and trust and then we're gonna make something and so you know the winos came together you know ivan neville man

01:06:36Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:06:37Guest:What do you want to tell?

01:06:39Guest:He'll never praise.

01:06:40Guest:Forever you play with that guy.

01:06:41Guest:I love that guy.

01:06:42Guest:Long time, right?

01:06:44Guest:Great player.

01:06:45Guest:Great.

01:06:46Guest:Yeah.

01:06:47Guest:Sympathical.

01:06:48Marc:Yeah.

01:06:49Marc:And this was the last record that Bobby Keys played on?

01:06:54Marc:Unfortunately, yeah.

01:06:55Guest:I'm sorry you lost your friend, man.

01:06:56Guest:Yeah, thank you very much.

01:06:59Guest:Bobby's probably laughing his head off.

01:07:04Guest:We had no idea that was going to be his last recorded stuff when we did it.

01:07:11Guest:Bobby, that's Mr. Rock and Roll.

01:07:13Guest:Yeah.

01:07:15Guest:Large as Texas.

01:07:16Marc:Yeah.

01:07:16Guest:Not larger.

01:07:17Marc:Between the two of you, it's like you're both Mr. Rock and Roll.

01:07:21Marc:He certainly lived the life.

01:07:22Marc:He certainly did.

01:07:24Marc:Yeah.

01:07:25Marc:Yeah.

01:07:25Marc:Now, when you lose somebody that you've been around with that long, but you know, I guess at some point you realize that we're all living on borrowed time, and he certainly didn't waste any, right?

01:07:37Guest:Right.

01:07:38Guest:Like I said, I ain't got no tongue to lose, baby.

01:07:42Is that what he said?

01:07:42Yeah.

01:07:42Marc:Now, before you met Graham, though, you were into country music, but do you think Parsons really kind of blew your mind on it, or what?

01:07:49Guest:It's just that I met Graham in London.

01:07:52Guest:He was actually with the Byrds at the time.

01:07:55Guest:They'd done Sweetheart of the Rodeo.

01:07:57Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:59Guest:And they'd stopped in London and did a couple of gigs, and then they were destined to go play South Africa.

01:08:06Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:08:08Guest:And I happened to bump into Graham that night, I went to see the show, and we got to talking after, and he said, I'm getting this sort of feeling, you know, about South Africa, and I don't know, you know, I don't understand it, I don't know.

01:08:23Guest:So I explained to him, he said, it's like going to the south, but even worse.

01:08:27Guest:Yeah.

01:08:28Guest:This is like, you know, this isn't segregation, this is apartheid.

01:08:33Guest:And once he'd understood it, he said, well, and he left the birds that day and stayed with me in London.

01:08:39Marc:Oh, really?

01:08:40Guest:He just let them go on their own?

01:08:41Marc:Yeah.

01:08:41Marc:On principle.

01:08:42Guest:Yeah.

01:08:44Guest:That's fucking beautiful.

01:08:45Guest:Yeah.

01:08:45Guest:And then we became very, very close friends.

01:08:49Marc:had a few cold turkeys together sweat it out yeah that's sad too yeah that guy died so young yeah man that's another one you know but you still do like it's interesting like this record uh you know it's got all the stuff that you love on it you know you've got you've got your soul ballad you know you got your country music the reggae was really good man

01:09:16Marc:I was like, he's like doing reggae again.

01:09:19Marc:But you love it.

01:09:20Guest:I've always loved it.

01:09:21Guest:I've lived in Jamaica for many years.

01:09:23Guest:Yeah?

01:09:24Marc:You don't got that place anymore?

01:09:26Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:09:26Marc:You still have it?

01:09:27Marc:Mm-hmm.

01:09:28Marc:Yeah.

01:09:29Marc:At the time you got it, though, didn't you have to get it?

01:09:32Marc:Like, you couldn't come home, right?

01:09:34Guest:I burnt the passport, actually.

01:09:37Marc:Yeah.

01:09:37Marc:Because I got, someone sent me that box, that box set that you did with those guys in the cave or something.

01:09:42Marc:What was that?

01:09:43Marc:Oh, the wingless angels.

01:09:45Guest:Yeah, man.

01:09:46Guest:The Rastafarian.

01:09:48Marc:Those recordings are crazy, man.

01:09:50Guest:Yeah, man.

01:09:50Marc:It's just like hours of like, you know, I'm sort of like, I'm like, oh, there's Keith.

01:09:53Marc:I can hear a little Keith there, you know.

01:09:56Guest:I'm just backing up.

01:09:57Guest:Right, yeah, yeah.

01:09:58Guest:I was letting the guys have their thing.

01:09:59Guest:That's wild, man.

01:10:01Guest:And...

01:10:02Guest:Yeah, luckily, because nearly all of them have passed away since.

01:10:07Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:10:08Guest:It's a nice box, that box.

01:10:09Guest:Yeah.

01:10:11Guest:It was a great experience, and it was sort of just to capture some of the last moments of this particular part of Jamaican culture.

01:10:21Marc:Yeah.

01:10:22Guest:And I managed to do it.

01:10:24Guest:Yeah.

01:10:24Guest:And they loved it.

01:10:25Guest:We had great fun.

01:10:26Guest:I mean...

01:10:27Guest:You couldn't have funnier sessions in your life.

01:10:31Guest:A lot of weed.

01:10:33Guest:What do you want?

01:10:33Guest:A rum and milk.

01:10:37Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:38Marc:So in terms of being at the age you're at now and sort of the type of songwriting you're doing, because there's a couple of songs on here, like on the new record, like Amnesia and Nothing on Me, where I felt were sort of like celebrations of being still alive in a way.

01:10:54Marc:In a way, I guess everything is...

01:10:57Guest:Yeah.

01:10:58Guest:I mean, nothing on me is... Basically, it was about being busted.

01:11:04Guest:Right, right.

01:11:05Guest:Yeah.

01:11:06Guest:And it wasn't until after I listened to the whole record that I realized that the cops crop up a lot in this record, you know, on Rob Blind.

01:11:14Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:11:15Marc:That's right.

01:11:15Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:17Marc:Well, you made it.

01:11:17Marc:You made it.

01:11:18Marc:You're not wanted anymore.

01:11:19Marc:You're good, right?

01:11:20Marc:Yeah.

01:11:21Marc:And there's no warrants out.

01:11:24Marc:You're set.

01:11:24Marc:You're solid.

01:11:25Marc:Yeah.

01:11:25Marc:Yeah, well, let's talk about guitar players for a minute.

01:11:28Marc:All right, so you lost Brian, and then you bring Mick in, and then you toured with Mick a bit, Mick Taylor.

01:11:35Marc:Now, I guess my question, if I'm really going to focus it, just out of my own curiosity, because there was some shift where you guys sort of invented modern rock and roll.

01:11:43Marc:There was some shift, probably right in the middle or right after Satanic Majesties, where the entire sound and the groove became what the modern Stones are.

01:11:54Marc:What do you think, what happened to sort of make that happen?

01:11:58Marc:Was there a moment where you're like, this is where it's at?

01:12:01Marc:I mean, the difference between how you cover, like, you know, Love in Vain or what you did with the blues and country music on Let It Bleed and Beggars in Exile, like, it just, that became the template for rock and roll from that point forward.

01:12:17Guest:You know, and one, in a way, I can put this in two words, Jimmy Miller.

01:12:23Guest:Producer.

01:12:25Guest:Yeah?

01:12:26Guest:Yeah.

01:12:26Marc:How did he affect that?

01:12:27Marc:How did he influence it?

01:12:28Guest:What did he say?

01:12:29Guest:Well, after Satanic Majesties, we were, you know, Mick and I were like, we have to refocus.

01:12:36Guest:I mean, that was a mad year.

01:12:37Guest:I mean, you know, there was Sergeant Pepper and Satanic Majesties.

01:12:42Guest:You know, well, I guess they're all on acid, right?

01:12:45Guest:You know what I mean?

01:12:46Guest:It was just true enough.

01:12:48Guest:So you did all the acid, you did the thing.

01:12:49Guest:Oh, they had gone to India.

01:12:53Yeah.

01:12:53Guest:So you had to keep up with the Beatles.

01:12:57Guest:Yeah, I mean, no, we had to refocus.

01:12:59Guest:Oh, that's interesting.

01:13:02Marc:So that was the end of you keeping up with the Beatles.

01:13:04Marc:You're like, we've got to do our shit.

01:13:05Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:13:06Guest:I mean, I couldn't go anywhere near there.

01:13:09Guest:And I realized that the Beatles, the boys themselves, sort of outpaced themselves in a way.

01:13:17Guest:And they were...

01:13:20Marc:Well they lasted, what were they, that was it?

01:13:23Marc:What are you going to do?

01:13:24Guest:What are you going to do?

01:13:25Guest:Numero uno, numero uno, numero uno.

01:13:28Guest:And so they started, like anybody else, to play around.

01:13:35Guest:But that was 67, that was 66, 67.

01:13:38Guest:Right.

01:13:38Guest:Those years were, I mean it was crazy.

01:13:41Guest:I mean there was LSD all over the place.

01:13:44Guest:Right.

01:13:45Guest:And so if you made... Did you like that shit?

01:13:49Guest:I had a couple of good trips and a couple of bad ones, you know.

01:13:54Guest:Just like anything else, you know.

01:13:55Guest:Right, right, right.

01:13:59Guest:But no, it was not something that I'd wake up in the morning and sort of say, I must have a tap, you know.

01:14:03Guest:Right, right, right.

01:14:04Guest:Because then what are you going to do for the next three days?

01:14:06Guest:Yeah, it's crazy.

01:14:08Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:14:09Guest:It was interesting.

01:14:10Guest:Yeah.

01:14:10Guest:And I mean, I don't say I regret any of it, but it was an experiment.

01:14:16Guest:Right.

01:14:17Guest:I think, in a way, it kind of shook Mick and I up.

01:14:24Guest:Because we said, boom, now we've really got to tighten up.

01:14:27Guest:This is why we got Beggar's Banquet.

01:14:29Guest:And I've got to say that Jimmy Miller was the key in tightening the band up and refocusing, so to speak.

01:14:39Marc:Well, it seems like you guys, like you said about doing, you know, yeah, you want me to do it.

01:14:47Marc:About smoking that first cigarette in 10 years with Keith Richards.

01:14:56Marc:I don't know why I wouldn't do that.

01:14:59Marc:Thanks, man.

01:15:00Guest:I'm a bad influence.

01:15:01Marc:Not you, Keith.

01:15:03Marc:That sounds so... Not you.

01:15:05Marc:You're not a bad influence.

01:15:09Marc:So, but in terms of, because when you talk about it, you know, I got the blues, you know, and that laid back thing.

01:15:16Marc:I mean, somebody, you know, relaxed the band.

01:15:19Marc:And if it was Jimmy Miller, how did he do that necessarily?

01:15:23Marc:You know what I mean?

01:15:23Marc:Get you into that groove.

01:15:24Marc:Because the sound is pretty different from Aftermath to fucking Beggars.

01:15:30Guest:Yeah.

01:15:32Guest:It was, I think...

01:15:36Guest:After the Satanic Majesties, I think we'd actually reached the end of our tether.

01:15:42Guest:We'd been working 350 days a year for like four years.

01:15:48Guest:Where did you go on your vacation?

01:15:50Guest:Vacation?

01:15:51Guest:Forget about it.

01:15:53Guest:If we weren't on the road, we were in the studio.

01:15:58Guest:And I think, yeah, basically, even at that age, you know, we pretty much worn ourselves out.

01:16:04Guest:The year between that and bringing and getting beggars' banquet together was...

01:16:13Guest:Basically re-energizing, getting some rest, re-energizing and refocusing.

01:16:19Guest:And as I say to me, it was Jimmy Miller that put the lens in the focus.

01:16:28Guest:He was a drummer.

01:16:29Guest:He had a great sense of sound.

01:16:33Guest:And he loved the band.

01:16:35Guest:And he brought out the best in us.

01:16:38Marc:And did Brian die in the middle of that?

01:16:40Guest:Somewhere around there, yeah.

01:16:44Guest:Brian, I mean, he's the kind of guy you love to hate.

01:16:48Guest:Oh, really?

01:16:49Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:16:51Guest:Brilliant but annoying, is that what you're saying?

01:16:54Guest:Brilliant, and yes.

01:16:57Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:16:59Guest:Beyond an eye.

01:17:03Guest:No, that man, motherfucker.

01:17:08Guest:We'd be in Chicago and play a gig, and he'd get asthma.

01:17:14Guest:I got to play three weeks in the Midwest.

01:17:18Guest:without another guitar player.

01:17:20Guest:Oh, so he's fragile.

01:17:21Guest:Thank God the girls were screaming loud enough.

01:17:24Guest:I mean, I'm trying to cover all bass.

01:17:26Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:17:27Guest:And then I find out that he was out of the hospital the next day and they're hanging around screwing groupies.

01:17:33Guest:And I said, excuse me, man, we need a little more dedication.

01:17:38Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:17:39Guest:You need a guitar.

01:17:39Guest:You got a job.

01:17:40Guest:Yeah.

01:17:40Guest:You have a job.

01:17:41Marc:You're in a

01:17:42Guest:So it went kind of from there, yeah, you know, I mean that he was, you know, he became a drag.

01:17:49Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:17:50Marc:And then when Mick Taylor comes in, that was a whole different kind of guitar player, right?

01:17:54Marc:I mean, it's really interesting the difference between, you know, like Taylor and Wood, but like Mick Taylor was like, he was a big part of the sound for a couple albums, huh?

01:18:03Marc:He certainly was.

01:18:04Marc:He was a brilliant guitar player.

01:18:06Marc:Yeah.

01:18:07Marc:How's he doing?

01:18:09Guest:The last I saw him, he's doing alright.

01:18:12Guest:He's a bit chubby.

01:18:15Guest:But that's his privilege, right?

01:18:18Guest:He plays great and we worked together for a couple of years.

01:18:26Guest:To me, I'm a guitar player.

01:18:31Guest:You know, on my own, I really, I mean, it doesn't interest me.

01:18:38Guest:My interest is in playing off of the other guy and what you put together, because two guitars can sound like an orchestra if you do it right.

01:18:47Guest:Right, play off each other.

01:18:48Guest:And that's really what, as Ronnie and I call it.

01:18:54Guest:the ancient form of weaving.

01:18:56Guest:Right.

01:18:57Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:18:57Guest:It's like where you don't know who's playing lead, who's playing rhythm.

01:19:01Marc:That's what you did.

01:19:02Guest:It all switches through.

01:19:04Marc:And Mick Taylor was kind of his own dude, right?

01:19:07Guest:Yeah.

01:19:07Marc:Yeah.

01:19:08Guest:So I had to readjust for that.

01:19:11Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:19:12Guest:And at that same time, I'd just gotten into the five-string thing.

01:19:16Guest:So I was rearranging my sound.

01:19:19Guest:Where'd you learn that?

01:19:21Guest:I'll tell you what, Ry Cuda was the first cat that I learned it from.

01:19:24Guest:I saw her playing it.

01:19:26Guest:I didn't learn it because he wouldn't teach you anything.

01:19:29Guest:Ry keeps his secrets and bless his heart.

01:19:33Guest:But I'm still finding out, man, what you can do with it because it's a whole different...

01:19:38Guest:But to me, it sort of re-interested me in playing guitar.

01:19:44Guest:Because I was pretty much at the end of my possibilities on just straight tuning.

01:19:50Guest:I'm not going to be Charlie Christian.

01:19:53Marc:You accepted that.

01:19:55Marc:And I don't want to be.

01:19:57Guest:But when I got to the open G scene, I started to really research it.

01:20:04Guest:How to play a minor chord with open G.

01:20:08Guest:And you get all of these resonating notes and drone notes and stuff that fascinate and still do.

01:20:18Marc:Well, that's the genius of Keith right there.

01:20:21Marc:It's funny.

01:20:23Marc:You're talking about the Beatles.

01:20:25Marc:I can't believe I'm smoking my first cigarette in 10 years with Keith Richards in an NPR studio.

01:20:30Marc:Huh?

01:20:30Marc:how about that fuck everything we're smoking at npr yeah when i you know what you know what album i love that that what song i love is when you play with george jones oh on the bradley barn bradley barn thing i listen to that all the time man i was i mean that was a real honor for me was it yeah yeah to work with george jones i mean first off

01:20:53Guest:Graham Parsons, George Jones is the singer.

01:21:02Marc:The greatest singer.

01:21:04Guest:Amazing.

01:21:07Guest:He's there with, you know, Aaron Neville is another cat that can use the voice as if it's effortless and do anything with it.

01:21:18Guest:Frank Sinatra once said that he thought George Jones was the second best singer.

01:21:26Guest:you're right i would take exception oh yeah right amazing voice amazing voice and a great guy crazy as nuts in there but uh were you guys playing off each other in the studio at the same so you did it live just like that if you feel it too man it has a beautiful song darling there's talk around town yeah yeah it's fucking great and you played with uh you did you did a record with jerry lee

01:21:55Guest:Yeah, Jerry Lee is another great friend of mine.

01:21:58Guest:Yeah, still?

01:21:59Guest:Yeah.

01:22:00Marc:He's still hanging in, huh?

01:22:02Guest:Man, he's amazing, man.

01:22:05Guest:I guess you old devils got to stick together a little bit.

01:22:08Guest:I guess.

01:22:08Guest:We've had our tips and we've had our...

01:22:12Guest:But no, Jerry and I, it's sort of a recognition of similar souls.

01:22:18Marc:Right, yeah.

01:22:19Marc:And you were able to play with Muddy, and Buddy's still around, so you play with him sometimes?

01:22:24Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:22:25Guest:Buddy was on the show with us in Minneapolis, in Milwaukee.

01:22:31Marc:Did you play with Wolf?

01:22:33Guest:Howling Wolf, yeah, once on that Shindig TV show.

01:22:40Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:41Guest:We didn't actually play with him, no.

01:22:43Guest:I was there.

01:22:44Guest:And you watched?

01:22:45Guest:Yeah.

01:22:45Guest:I once woke up in his house.

01:22:47Guest:How'd that happen?

01:22:48Guest:Well, I don't know.

01:22:49Guest:I fell asleep at Marty's.

01:22:51Guest:I woke up in our remorse.

01:22:53Guest:To Chicago?

01:22:54Guest:Yeah.

01:22:56Guest:It was some party or something, you know.

01:22:58Guest:They must have carried me from one on.

01:23:00Guest:What are we going to do with this white kid?

01:23:03Guest:I don't know.

01:23:03Guest:We'll just take him with us.

01:23:06Guest:LAUGHTER

01:23:06Marc:What the fuck?

01:23:07Marc:There must have been a lot of lost weeks, Keith.

01:23:11Marc:Here and there.

01:23:11Marc:How do you level off?

01:23:14Marc:How do you manage?

01:23:15Marc:I mean, we don't need to get too far into it.

01:23:18Marc:You got pretty strung out for a few years.

01:23:20Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:23:21Marc:Deliberately.

01:23:22Marc:It was an experiment.

01:23:23Marc:Yeah?

01:23:24Marc:Is that how you view it?

01:23:25Marc:An experiment for a few years?

01:23:26Guest:Yes, I'm the laboratory.

01:23:28Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:23:29Marc:When did you realize that the experiment was over?

01:23:31Guest:It was going on too long.

01:23:32Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:23:34Guest:I mean, you've been threatened with, you know...

01:23:36Guest:Seven years hard time, you know, that'll do it.

01:23:39Guest:Yeah.

01:23:39Marc:Yeah.

01:23:40Guest:Yeah.

01:23:40Guest:I love my band more than I love the stuff.

01:23:43Marc:Oh, good.

01:23:43Marc:Yeah.

01:23:44Marc:Yeah.

01:23:44Marc:So you're able to taper off and get into a management system.

01:23:48Marc:I just kicked it.

01:23:49Guest:Yeah.

01:23:51Guest:What a relief, huh?

01:23:52Guest:Yeah.

01:23:53Guest:I mean, I got sick of dealers and junkies, you know, because that's you end up in that stuff.

01:23:59Guest:You end up and you realize that.

01:24:02Guest:The only people you're talking to are like, are they strung out cats?

01:24:07Marc:That's right.

01:24:07Guest:You're in a hotel room full of people you don't know.

01:24:09Guest:Waiting for the man and all that.

01:24:12Guest:Right, right.

01:24:12Guest:And so it was, yeah, it was time to cut that out.

01:24:16Marc:So do, cut it.

01:24:18Marc:You know what's scary about that is that if you're in a room full of five or six of those dudes or whoever that attracts, if you go down, if you fucking OD, you know what?

01:24:26Marc:You're going to be alone in that room.

01:24:28Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:24:28Marc:No one's going to fucking call cops.

01:24:30Guest:Don't tell me about it.

01:24:31Marc:Right?

01:24:32Marc:Yeah, man.

01:24:32Marc:Oh, shit, he's down.

01:24:33Marc:Let's go.

01:24:33Guest:I've seen the bodies.

01:24:34Marc:Yeah?

01:24:35Marc:Yeah.

01:24:36Marc:It's a scary fucking world.

01:24:38Marc:Oh, my God.

01:24:39Marc:I didn't realize you put out a new book that I downloaded to read on the plane, Gus and Me.

01:24:44Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:24:46Marc:I read your children's book.

01:24:47Marc:I thought it would take a little longer.

01:24:48Marc:It took me eight minutes, but I downloaded it.

01:24:50Marc:It took me four minutes to read it.

01:24:52Marc:And to write it.

01:24:54Marc:But it's really a pretty book.

01:24:56Marc:I mean, did you ever think in your life that you would be a children's book writer?

01:25:00Marc:No.

01:25:00Guest:I mean, the idea came up.

01:25:02Guest:I thought, are you kidding me?

01:25:04Guest:Right.

01:25:04Guest:Who came up with that idea?

01:25:06Guest:The publishers of...

01:25:10Guest:Of life, of my own book.

01:25:14Guest:Somebody, they'd come up with this idea about, there was a chapter in there about my grandfather.

01:25:19Guest:And they said, this could be a really nice children's story.

01:25:25Guest:And I thought, if I'm going to write anything and do anything for kids.

01:25:29Guest:Yeah.

01:25:29Guest:I can only talk about something I love, which is my granddad and the guitar.

01:25:35Guest:So in a way, it was like taking my hats off to Gus, who was great to me.

01:25:41Guest:He threw you a line.

01:25:42Guest:He's your lifesaver.

01:25:43Marc:It's a cute little book.

01:25:45Marc:And your daughter illustrated it.

01:25:47Marc:Yeah, it was a family affair.

01:25:49Marc:Yeah, but she did a great job.

01:25:51Marc:She did.

01:25:53Marc:It's a pretty little book.

01:25:54Marc:I couldn't believe I'm getting choked up reading a Keith Richards children's book.

01:26:00Marc:I love to sort of throw you the odd... Yes, I do.

01:26:04Marc:I'm listening to your record, and then I'm reading your children's book, and I'm like, what the fuck?

01:26:09Marc:All I want to do is drugs, but I... I'm broadening my horizons.

01:26:12Marc:I'll say, man.

01:26:14Marc:Well, you've got some grandkids, right?

01:26:16Marc:We've got five.

01:26:17Marc:Five.

01:26:18Marc:Yeah.

01:26:18Marc:Do you love hanging out with them?

01:26:20Guest:Yeah.

01:26:21Guest:Yeah?

01:26:22Guest:Yeah, it's worth hanging around to be a granddad, you know?

01:26:25Guest:Yeah.

01:26:26Marc:Did you ever think you would?

01:26:27Guest:I mean, it's... At certain times, no.

01:26:30Guest:But, um...

01:26:31Guest:Here I am, and there's five grandkids, and it's another thing.

01:26:37Guest:It takes you on another level.

01:26:39Guest:It's one thing being a father, which is fun enough.

01:26:45Marc:You had a couple shots at that.

01:26:47Guest:Yeah.

01:26:47Guest:Two sets.

01:26:48Guest:Yeah, two sets of that.

01:26:50Guest:And out they come, but they're great little kids.

01:26:56Guest:Yeah.

01:26:58Guest:What, do they have a name for you?

01:27:02Marc:Just grandpa or granddad or what do they call you?

01:27:05Marc:Grandpa.

01:27:06Marc:Yeah.

01:27:07Marc:Him.

01:27:10Guest:And you get along with all your kids?

01:27:12Guest:Yeah, sure.

01:27:14Guest:It's a very close family in that respect.

01:27:16Guest:Yeah?

01:27:17Guest:Yeah.

01:27:17Guest:It's like a tribe.

01:27:19Marc:How were you with your dad growing up in general?

01:27:22Marc:Because I know you loved Gus, but your father, did you guys fight it out for a few years?

01:27:27Guest:I don't know.

01:27:28Guest:I grew up with just my mum and my dad.

01:27:30Guest:Yeah.

01:27:31Guest:So I grew up in a very adult area.

01:27:35Guest:So, I mean, sometimes, you know, I sort of wished I had a brother or a sister so I didn't have to listen to about the arguments about the rent and the insurance and whatever, you know what I mean?

01:27:49Guest:Right, yeah, yeah.

01:27:51Guest:But there's no way out of that.

01:27:52Guest:So you sort of grow up in an adult...

01:27:55Guest:household whether you like it or not yeah and they treat you like a kid at the same time you you know they have problems and uh but not between themselves but just like day-to-day living you know i mean my dad worked uh

01:28:12Guest:He worked his life for General Electric, making tubes.

01:28:18Guest:Right.

01:28:19Guest:Of all things.

01:28:20Guest:Of all things, yeah.

01:28:21Guest:And this I'll get around to in a minute.

01:28:24Guest:So I leave home, 17, the bird leaves the nest.

01:28:28Guest:And within a year, my mum and my dad had split up.

01:28:32Guest:I think I was the only reason to stay around.

01:28:36Guest:But...

01:28:37Guest:So I, you know, suddenly I'm making some bread.

01:28:39Guest:Immediately I sort of take care of mum.

01:28:42Guest:Yeah.

01:28:43Guest:Me dad, whatever, for 20 years, no contact whatsoever.

01:28:49Guest:Really?

01:28:50Guest:Yeah.

01:28:50Guest:And in 82, I think 81, 82, I sent a note and said, see if you can get this through to my dad.

01:28:58Guest:Yeah.

01:29:00Guest:Why haven't we seen each other so long?

01:29:03Yeah.

01:29:03Guest:So my dad comes down to my house, and I'd taken Ronnie Wood with me because I wanted protection.

01:29:13Guest:So I'd meet my dad after 20 years, I was scared shit.

01:29:16Marc:Really?

01:29:16Guest:Yeah, in a way.

01:29:18Guest:I needed some kind of support.

01:29:22Guest:And out comes my dad, 20 years old, a little old bloke, great.

01:29:28Guest:And we snapped two straight away.

01:29:31Guest:I mean, we just got on.

01:29:35Guest:And I had more fun with him for the next 20 years.

01:29:38Guest:I showed him the world.

01:29:38Guest:I said, get on this plane, come on.

01:29:41Guest:And he's got Brookshire sitting on his lap.

01:29:47Guest:And I gave him the whole world he hadn't seen for the last 20 years of his life.

01:29:55Guest:We played dominoes endlessly with a lot of other guys.

01:30:01Guest:And he liked his rum.

01:30:05Guest:That he could drink us all under the table.

01:30:08Guest:It was amazing.

01:30:10Guest:That's beautiful, man.

01:30:11Guest:And your mom?

01:30:12Guest:Bless her heart.

01:30:13Guest:Yes, I always saw her.

01:30:15Guest:And the funny thing about my mom...

01:30:18Guest:is that she knows she's going, and I went to the hospital, to the clinic.

01:30:23Guest:When was this?

01:30:25Guest:It was 2002, I think.

01:30:29Guest:And so I brought a guitar with me, and I sat on the end of the bed, and she said...

01:30:42Guest:Keith, this morphine's not bad.

01:30:50Guest:You're 93 at last.

01:30:54Marc:Now you get it.

01:30:58Marc:Oh, that's fucking beautiful.

01:31:00Marc:So the new record's great, man.

01:31:03Marc:Right, cool.

01:31:03Marc:Love everything you do.

01:31:05Marc:And I guess to finish up, when you look back,

01:31:10Marc:Not so much about regrets, but is there anything you're still pissed off about?

01:31:14Marc:Is there anything stuck in your craw about the way things went down?

01:31:18Guest:I could have lived without being busted.

01:31:23Guest:And without being like, you know, cops putting things in my pocket and stuff.

01:31:30Guest:Oh, that happened?

01:31:30Guest:Yeah?

01:31:31Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:31:31Guest:It was terrible in London.

01:31:33Guest:Oh, the first big bust?

01:31:35Guest:Yeah, no, there was a second one that, you know...

01:31:39Guest:Oh, what have we got here?

01:31:42Guest:Oh, really?

01:31:43Guest:But I did have the pleasure of that gentleman.

01:31:45Guest:His name was, at the time, was Constable.

01:31:49Guest:Uh-huh.

01:31:49Guest:In fact, it was Constable Constable.

01:31:52Guest:Constable Constable.

01:31:53Guest:Yeah, he got to be a sergeant, I think, before he was finally checked.

01:31:59Guest:Nothing to do with me by then, but I just read in a favor.

01:32:02Guest:that he's been sentenced to five years.

01:32:05Guest:Oh, really?

01:32:05Guest:Yeah.

01:32:06Guest:You don't even know why.

01:32:07Guest:Fuck them.

01:32:07Guest:Yeah, well, probably for the same thing.

01:32:09Guest:Send people up.

01:32:10Guest:Or just corruption or whatever.

01:32:11Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:32:11Guest:Yeah, it was a bent station and, you know, it's one of those things, you know, he...

01:32:18Guest:cops ain't perfect nor am I so so Ronnie's good Ronnie's good Charlie's good you and Mick are good yeah everything's alright yeah looking forward to doing some more yeah alright well thanks for talking to me it was a real honour really fucking amazing pleasure man rather laugh and you smoked your first cigarette yeah with Keith Richards come on thanks man pleasure man

01:32:48Marc:Keith Richards, man.

01:32:53Marc:Sometimes I love my life.

01:32:56Marc:I really do.

01:32:57Marc:All right.

01:32:58Marc:So go to WTF pod.com slash tour for all my upcoming tour dates.

01:33:02Marc:You can go to Keith Richards.com to get that beautiful super deluxe box set.

01:33:06Marc:And now I'll play my stinky guitar.

01:33:08Marc:I just, it's not a Keith riff, but it's a, you know, it's rock.

01:33:13Marc:It's what I do.

01:33:14Marc:I probably done it before.

01:34:23Guest:Boomer lives.

01:34:32Guest:Monkey and La Fonda.

01:34:33Guest:Cat angels everywhere.