Episode 1309 - Sam Elliott

Episode 1309 • Released February 28, 2022 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck tuplets are there any what the fuck nicks what's happening did i say that twice where are we at what's going on what's happening are you okay where's your brain at

00:00:24Marc:Oh, my God.

00:00:26Marc:So many things out of our control.

00:00:28Marc:What do you do with that?

00:00:29Marc:How do you make that about you?

00:00:30Marc:Other than I don't know what to do.

00:00:33Marc:I don't know what to do about it.

00:00:35Marc:How do we react to this?

00:00:37Marc:How do we respond?

00:00:38Marc:What do I tweet?

00:00:39Marc:Who do I call?

00:00:40Marc:Where do I send a check?

00:00:42Marc:Do I know any Ukrainians?

00:00:45Marc:What to do?

00:00:46Marc:How do we handle all the stuff that's going on all the time in the real world, on our phone, in our yard, in our pants?

00:00:57Marc:It's all so overwhelming, hard to compartmentalize.

00:01:02Marc:It's making me crazy.

00:01:04Marc:But you got to get grounded somehow.

00:01:07Marc:I don't know, man, with all the shit coming down, just the fortitude to get through it on a day-to-day basis without falling into yourself or just crumpling into some sort of existential abyss within.

00:01:20Marc:The existential abyss within.

00:01:24Marc:Are you falling or are you repelling?

00:01:27Marc:Sam Elliott's on the show today.

00:01:29Marc:Sam Elliott.

00:01:31Marc:iconic Sam Elliott.

00:01:33Marc:Like, who doesn't know Sam Elliott?

00:01:36Marc:It's weird.

00:01:37Marc:You look back, I have such strong memories.

00:01:41Marc:I think it's primarily that voice, that face.

00:01:44Marc:I don't know why he's just sort of ever-present, sort of in my mind.

00:01:48Marc:I just know him, but I don't.

00:01:50Marc:Even when I looked at all the movies, I didn't see that many.

00:01:52Marc:I mean, you know him from The Big Lebowski, The New A Star Is Born, Tombstone, lots of other movies where he's

00:01:59Marc:mostly a cowboy or a soldier or a biker.

00:02:02Marc:He's in this new series, 1883, which is a spinoff of the show Yellowstone, which I don't watch, but apparently everyone in the world watches it.

00:02:11Marc:Maybe not everyone in the world, everybody in a certain world, everybody in a certain world of people that enjoy people who wear cowboy hats, which is America.

00:02:22Marc:Right, man.

00:02:23Marc:So, yeah, I talked to Sam Elliott and I don't know where to start.

00:02:27Marc:I didn't know where to start.

00:02:28Marc:Sometimes I just do weird things.

00:02:29Marc:I went back and I watched some old movie he did.

00:02:32Marc:I didn't realize that he was in the movie Frogs, which I saw, I think, at a drive in with my parents in the 70s.

00:02:40Marc:And it kind of put the screwed my brain up because I remember there's a scene in there where a guy falls into some mud and he's just consumed with leeches.

00:02:47Marc:They don't kill him.

00:02:49Marc:But that was the first time I I got hip to leeches was from the movie Frogs, if I'm not mistaken.

00:02:54Marc:Like there was just things stuck to him.

00:02:56Marc:And I was like, what are those?

00:02:57Marc:And my dad said they're leeches.

00:02:59Marc:And to this day, the idea of a leech, of a thing, just this slimy ass half a snail stuck on your skin, sticking his teeth in you and sucking your blood.

00:03:10Marc:It's a little rough.

00:03:11Marc:It's a little rough to me.

00:03:13Marc:I mean, how bad could it hurt?

00:03:14Marc:But when I'm a kid, you fall in, somebody comes out of the mud just covered in these blood sucking slime pieces.

00:03:22Marc:It's a lot.

00:03:23Marc:It was a lot.

00:03:24Marc:And metaphorically, you know, take that the next step.

00:03:29Marc:The leech friend.

00:03:30Marc:Sure.

00:03:31Marc:Who hasn't had him?

00:03:32Marc:How much does that cost you?

00:03:34Marc:But he was in frogs.

00:03:35Marc:Fine.

00:03:37Marc:But then he was in this movie called Lifeguard, and that was probably 1976 or 75, 76.

00:03:42Marc:And I had some vague memory of kind of seeing that movie.

00:03:46Marc:So I chose to watch that.

00:03:47Marc:I mean, I watched some of the new show, 1883.

00:03:49Marc:I've seen Wabowski.

00:03:50Marc:I've seen Mask.

00:03:51Marc:I've seen A Star is Born.

00:03:53Marc:I've seen Tombstone.

00:03:54Marc:I feel like I've seen a couple other movies where he's been, him and his mustache.

00:03:59Marc:Sam Elliott, man.

00:04:00Marc:How about that voice?

00:04:02Marc:But I watched Lifeguard and was one of those.

00:04:04Marc:I think it was a tail end of, I think, what you would characterize as the 70s movie with a sort of existential antihero or underdog or dark ending.

00:04:21Marc:This one was sort of fun in the sun version of the existential.

00:04:25Marc:I wouldn't call him an antihero.

00:04:27Marc:But just certainly someone who is challenged as to what to do with one's life or what a future is or what it means to be an adult or have a job or that kind of thing.

00:04:39Marc:But there's some fairly dicey stuff in there.

00:04:41Marc:But it was sort of a kind of mellow, beach-oriented inner darkness.

00:04:48Marc:And I just wanted to start there for some reason.

00:04:50Marc:And that's where I started, I think, when I talked to Sam.

00:04:56Marc:It was great to talk to him.

00:04:57Marc:I got to be honest with you.

00:04:59Marc:Sometimes I sit across from people in this room and I'm like, holy shit, look at that over there.

00:05:03Marc:That's Sam Elliott, man.

00:05:05Marc:I do want to say a couple of words about Sally Kellerman who passed away a couple of days ago last week.

00:05:16Marc:She played my mother on my show.

00:05:18Marc:Some of you may know her from back to school, or you might know her from MASH, or you might know her from her music and many other movies and things.

00:05:28Marc:But I guess I started working with Sally in what, 2014, 13 or 14.

00:05:35Marc:She appeared on all four seasons of my show as my mother.

00:05:38Marc:And she was so beautiful and fun to work with and just had a great kind of like loose demeanor.

00:05:49Marc:And she liked telling stories.

00:05:50Marc:And over the years, by the time we finally got to the...

00:05:54Marc:The last season of my show, you know, she clearly was having problems, you know, with memory and kind of knowing what was going on and where she was.

00:06:07Marc:And it was sad.

00:06:08Marc:It was hard.

00:06:08Marc:Yeah.

00:06:10Marc:And I didn't really speak to her for years.

00:06:12Marc:And I don't know where she was or how it all panned out.

00:06:19Marc:But, you know, my heart goes out to her family and her friends.

00:06:23Marc:And I just was so, you know, I was honored.

00:06:28Marc:to have the ability to work with her and give her the opportunity that I gave her to do my show later in her career because she was so full of life.

00:06:37Marc:And it's brutal.

00:06:39Marc:It's been, you know, she was 84.

00:06:41Marc:It's no youngster, but still the last month or two, a lot of people have passed, a lot of people that I've talked to.

00:06:48Marc:And it's one of the benefits, but also one of the, it's heavy, man.

00:06:53Marc:It's heavy.

00:06:54Marc:There's a weight to it.

00:06:57Marc:When I pull these episodes out from behind the paywall in memorial to people, it brings them back to life again.

00:07:04Marc:And I like being able to do that.

00:07:08Marc:But it's sad when you have to post three in the span of a month or two.

00:07:17Marc:But I loved her.

00:07:19Marc:I loved working with her.

00:07:20Marc:It was a great part of my life.

00:07:25Marc:Bye, Sally.

00:07:28Marc:I'm just trying to fucking exist.

00:07:30Marc:You know, I get nervous.

00:07:32Marc:I get nervous.

00:07:34Marc:It all makes me nervous.

00:07:35Marc:What the fuck am I talking about?

00:07:37Marc:Interviewing Sam Elliott made me nervous.

00:07:39Marc:What are you going to do with Sam Elliott?

00:07:41Marc:That guy, that voice sitting across from you?

00:07:44Marc:The whole history there?

00:07:45Marc:Well, I told you what I did.

00:07:46Marc:I watched a movie he made in 1976 thinking that would be some portal in.

00:07:52Marc:Kind of was.

00:07:53Marc:Kind of was.

00:07:55Marc:Sam's new series is 1883.

00:07:56Marc:It's streaming now on Paramount+.

00:07:58Marc:This is me talking to that voice, to that mustache, to that actor, Sam Elliott.

00:08:09Marc:I just started playing with people, really.

00:08:16Guest:Good for you.

00:08:17Marc:You?

00:08:18Guest:No, sorry to say.

00:08:20Marc:You don't play, huh?

00:08:21Guest:No, never did.

00:08:23Guest:I went to a school with a bunch called the Kingsmen up in Portland.

00:08:27Guest:The folk guys?

00:08:28Guest:I don't know if they were folk guys.

00:08:30Guest:They recorded a song called Louie Louie.

00:08:33Marc:Oh, that's the Kingsmen, right?

00:08:34Marc:That was the most...

00:08:36Guest:The most famous song in the world.

00:08:37Guest:Kingston Trio.

00:08:38Guest:That's who I'm thinking of, yeah.

00:08:39Marc:You can pull that mic in, too, pretty close to you.

00:08:43Marc:Yeah.

00:08:43Marc:You know how to do the voice thing.

00:08:46Marc:Yeah, once.

00:08:49Marc:I tell you, I've looked at pictures of you over the years, and the one thing that remains constant is the mustache size.

00:08:57Marc:But I've cut it off.

00:08:58Marc:For a couple times?

00:08:59Guest:Sure.

00:08:59Guest:Once or twice?

00:09:00Guest:Yeah, fuck, I'm not attached to it.

00:09:02Marc:You're not attached to it?

00:09:04No.

00:09:04Guest:I have it more often than not.

00:09:07Guest:Don't use it.

00:09:08Guest:I have mine now.

00:09:09Guest:But for work, I'll cut it for fucking work.

00:09:11Guest:Sure, of course.

00:09:12Marc:Yeah.

00:09:13Marc:And I've done that as well, but I'm always surprised at my lip.

00:09:18Guest:No, it gets pretty fucking big with that hair on it.

00:09:20Guest:It's weird, man.

00:09:21Guest:I know.

00:09:22Marc:i always feel like mine's a little small i'm like i now because i spent most of my life without it yeah but then i see myself and i'm like i gotta yeah you got a good stash i know i've been working it's been about about a decade or two about 12 15 years yeah but that was it i did it in my 40s you've had it forever i've had it for a while i had mustache when nobody had mustaches

00:09:45Marc:It was a memorable mustache.

00:09:48Marc:But Portland, so wait, you knew the guys in the Kingsmen?

00:09:51Guest:Went to school with them.

00:09:52Marc:That's a huge hit.

00:09:54Guest:Yeah, it was.

00:09:55Marc:Like everyone's done that song.

00:09:56Marc:That song, it seems to have, it's almost eternal.

00:10:00Marc:Everyone does it at one point.

00:10:02Guest:Somebody else recorded it first, and I can't remember them, but the Kingsmen is the one that hit.

00:10:08Marc:Yeah, and they were friends of yours?

00:10:10Marc:Yeah.

00:10:11Guest:Yeah?

00:10:11Guest:Yeah, I used to sing at dances with them.

00:10:13Guest:Really?

00:10:13Guest:And they'd play backup.

00:10:16Guest:That's what I started to say.

00:10:17Guest:If I played a fucking guitar at that time, I might have ended up going and singing with a Kingsman.

00:10:24Marc:But you grew up in Portland?

00:10:26Guest:I went up there when I was 15 from California, from Sacramento.

00:10:30Guest:I was born in Sacramento.

00:10:31Marc:Ugh, Sacramento.

00:10:33Guest:Yeah.

00:10:33Guest:It was good then.

00:10:34Guest:Was it?

00:10:35Guest:What the fuck, man?

00:10:36Guest:I guess it was smaller.

00:10:37Guest:I was born in 44, man.

00:10:38Marc:Yeah.

00:10:39Marc:Oh, so it was probably a- I was there in the 50s.

00:10:41Guest:It was a good place to be in the 50s.

00:10:43Marc:Yeah, just my impression of it is from probably the late 80s.

00:10:47Marc:Yeah.

00:10:47Marc:And I don't know.

00:10:48Marc:Different world.

00:10:49Marc:Yeah.

00:10:49Marc:I mean, everything was a smaller town then, right?

00:10:52Marc:Yeah.

00:10:52Marc:And you kind of knew everybody.

00:10:53Marc:It was probably a bustling state capital.

00:10:56Guest:You'd get on your bike and fucking go anywhere.

00:10:59Guest:Yeah.

00:10:59Guest:On the motorcycle or just a regular bike?

00:11:01Guest:On my bicycle, man, in those days.

00:11:03Marc:It was that small?

00:11:06Marc:Yeah.

00:11:06Guest:I used to go over the river and fish all the time.

00:11:09Guest:Sacramento River, I'd go over and fish striped bass.

00:11:13Marc:Striped bass?

00:11:14Marc:Did you get them?

00:11:14Guest:Sure.

00:11:15Guest:Really?

00:11:16Guest:Yeah.

00:11:16Guest:Oh, fuck, there was a huge striped bass running in the Sacramento River in those days.

00:11:20Marc:Just natural?

00:11:21Guest:Yeah.

00:11:21Marc:Not stocked?

00:11:22Guest:No.

00:11:22Marc:Just go get a bass, bring it home, eat it.

00:11:25Guest:Mom would cook it?

00:11:26Guest:Or bury it in the yard wanting to.

00:11:28Marc:It's the hobby of it.

00:11:30Guest:Good fertilizer.

00:11:31Marc:But your folks were, oh, is it?

00:11:33Guest:I guess it is.

00:11:33Guest:Fish heads, right?

00:11:34Guest:Yeah, fish, period.

00:11:36Marc:Were you a gardener?

00:11:38Guest:Yeah.

00:11:38Guest:Back then?

00:11:38Guest:My folks were in deep with gardening forever.

00:11:42Guest:My dad worked for the Fish and Wildlife Service.

00:11:44Guest:He did?

00:11:45Guest:Yeah.

00:11:46Guest:What'd he do?

00:11:47Guest:He was a predator and rodent control game.

00:11:51Guest:Predator and rodent control.

00:11:53Guest:Started out in Marfa, Texas.

00:11:54Marc:In Marfa?

00:11:55Marc:Yeah.

00:11:55Marc:That's a hip place now.

00:11:56Guest:It is now.

00:11:57Guest:Wasn't then?

00:11:58Guest:No.

00:11:59Guest:In the middle of fucking nowhere, man.

00:12:02Marc:Have you been back there recently?

00:12:04Guest:No.

00:12:05Guest:Ten years ago I was there.

00:12:07Marc:And were you like, oh, what the hell happened?

00:12:09Guest:It's a fucking art colony now, man.

00:12:11Guest:It's cool.

00:12:12Guest:So wait, so predatory and what?

00:12:15Guest:Predator and rodent control.

00:12:17Marc:And what is that?

00:12:18Guest:They fucking poisoned fucking rodents and killed fucking coyotes.

00:12:25Guest:For the city?

00:12:26Guest:No, no, for the fucking federal government.

00:12:29Marc:Uh-huh.

00:12:30Guest:Yeah.

00:12:30Guest:So he just had a little crew of dudes with guns and traps?

00:12:35Guest:Guns and dogs and traps and poisons.

00:12:40Guest:Like just anywhere?

00:12:41Guest:They laid waste to them.

00:12:42Guest:They were basically working for the ranchers and the sheep people.

00:12:47Guest:Oh, okay.

00:12:48Marc:So it was like the federal government's doing them a favor for the agricultural business.

00:12:52Guest:In theory.

00:12:53Marc:Yeah.

00:12:54Marc:So that was his racket the whole time?

00:12:56Guest:Yeah, he got transferred to Sacramento, and then he got transferred to Portland, Oregon.

00:13:02Guest:For the same thing?

00:13:03Guest:He was doing the same thing.

00:13:04Marc:So that's why it's a federal government, so he can go anywhere.

00:13:07Marc:Yeah.

00:13:07Marc:What was the problem in Portland?

00:13:10Guest:Rats and coyotes?

00:13:11Guest:No, it's just where we were headquartered.

00:13:14Guest:Oh, okay.

00:13:17Guest:Six western states in his jurisdiction at that point.

00:13:20Guest:So he was the main guy.

00:13:21Guest:He was one of the main guys.

00:13:23Marc:Get the guns down to the coyote problem.

00:13:26Marc:Yeah.

00:13:27Marc:And that's where he ended up, Portland.

00:13:28Marc:Well, what that city like is... I was just up there.

00:13:30Marc:It's a little dark and a little broken right now.

00:13:33Guest:Yeah, it's pretty fucked up right now.

00:13:35Marc:Oh, man.

00:13:36Marc:It's like...

00:13:37Marc:here too but for some reason in portland it's a block to block thing i never get a sense of uh never feels like uh that's safe up there never that grounded yeah it's a little weird you're always a kind of cutting edge up there you know you never know what fire was gonna fucking yeah it feels like that right and it's like set up weird and there's a lot of bridges and you don't know where the center of town is and you know it's i i

00:13:58Marc:There's the west side and the east side, and that's it.

00:14:01Marc:Yeah, I like it, but every time I've been up there, I've always thought there's a creeping darkness underneath that place.

00:14:08Guest:I'm not sure what it is.

00:14:09Guest:Stumptown, man.

00:14:11Marc:What was it like when you were there?

00:14:13Guest:It was good when I was there.

00:14:14Guest:It was fucking beautiful, man.

00:14:16Guest:I mean, I was a fucking kid used to fish in the Sacramento River, and all of a sudden, I'm living on the fucking Columbia River and the Willamette River.

00:14:24Guest:Yeah.

00:14:24Guest:so you're fishing in a bigger river bigger river but it didn't feel weird and dark yet no no that came later you still got a place up there i got my mom's place still i got the place i grew up in still it's just sitting there i stayed in there a month ago i went up there to shoot the last episode of this show not last episode but the last my last scene 1883 on the coast yeah so i stayed at my mom's house do you rent it out

00:14:49Guest:usually or what?

00:14:50Guest:No, there's a gal living next door that was there when my folks were there.

00:14:55Guest:Yeah.

00:14:55Guest:She and her husband and she's still alive at 101.

00:14:58Guest:Yeah.

00:14:58Guest:And she's always kind of kept out looking for it since my mom passed away like 11 years ago.

00:15:07Guest:Okay.

00:15:08Guest:And she and her daughter, you know, check it out.

00:15:10Guest:They manage the property.

00:15:11Guest:And their family stays there when they come to town.

00:15:14Marc:Okay.

00:15:14Guest:So it's like their guest house.

00:15:15Guest:I'm hanging on to it until she passes away, then I'm going to cut it loose.

00:15:19Marc:Really?

00:15:20Guest:Yeah.

00:15:20Marc:Just going to sell it?

00:15:21Marc:Yeah.

00:15:21Marc:You're done?

00:15:22Guest:I'm done.

00:15:23Marc:Yeah.

00:15:24Marc:When you stay up there, is it weird?

00:15:25Guest:It's totally weird.

00:15:26Guest:It's like a fucking time capsule, man.

00:15:29Guest:Your shit's still there?

00:15:30Guest:Yeah, it's all still there.

00:15:32Marc:Oh, no.

00:15:33Guest:It's incredible.

00:15:33Marc:Like in your room?

00:15:35Guest:Yeah.

00:15:36Marc:What is up there?

00:15:36Guest:It's like the fucking archive, man, for my shit.

00:15:40Guest:You know, I hauled all my shit up there to show my mom, and it never left.

00:15:44Guest:Yeah.

00:15:44Marc:Oh, my God.

00:15:45Marc:I don't know where any of my shit is, my old shit.

00:15:48Guest:Some of it.

00:15:48Marc:Yeah.

00:15:49Marc:But it's pristine.

00:15:51Marc:It's on the walls and stuff.

00:15:52Guest:It's all.

00:15:53Guest:There's shit everywhere.

00:15:54Guest:On the shelves, on the walls, under the beds.

00:15:56Guest:What are you going to do with that stuff?

00:15:58Guest:In the closets.

00:15:58Marc:You're going to throw it away?

00:15:59Guest:You know, I never have figured out what the fuck I'm going to do with that, Mark.

00:16:04Guest:I've got a pile here and a pile there.

00:16:07Marc:You know, it starts to lose meaning, I think.

00:16:10Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:11Marc:I'm starting to notice that.

00:16:12Marc:Like, there are some days, depending on, you know, how I'm feeling, where I look at all the stuff that I've amassed, and I realize, like, someone's just going to have to throw this away.

00:16:21Marc:Yeah.

00:16:21Marc:Why not be me?

00:16:22Marc:George Carlin called it stuff, man.

00:16:24Marc:Sure, stuff.

00:16:25Marc:It's just fucking stuff.

00:16:26Marc:Did you know him?

00:16:27Marc:No.

00:16:27Marc:Oh.

00:16:27Marc:Yeah, it's just stuff, but it represents some part of your life.

00:16:32Marc:For sure.

00:16:32Marc:But after a certain point, when you've lost people, like your mom or friends, you start to realize none of it means nothing.

00:16:40Marc:And it's going to be someone's job to come throw that shit away.

00:16:44Guest:The weird thing, and I'll include myself in that fucking thing, and I hate being called it, but a celebrity, for lack of a better word for it,

00:16:57Guest:It has value.

00:17:00Guest:Right.

00:17:01Guest:So the thing is for me, I'm trying to figure out how to cash in on it and get it somewhere where it ought to go.

00:17:11Guest:Right.

00:17:12Marc:The value of it.

00:17:14Marc:The Sam Elliott collection.

00:17:15Guest:I don't give a shit where, who gets what, but I'm not sure where the money will go.

00:17:20Marc:If you can make some money off of one of them hats...

00:17:23Guest:Yeah, fuck, man.

00:17:24Guest:I've made a lot of money off of a couple of my hats.

00:17:27Guest:You have?

00:17:28Guest:Yeah.

00:17:28Guest:I think some guy paid $15,000 for the hat that I wore in Tombstone.

00:17:34Guest:Good movie, right?

00:17:35Guest:Yeah.

00:17:36Marc:I'm surprised.

00:17:37Marc:Did you get asked to do the other movie, the Wyatt Earp movie?

00:17:41Marc:Did Cosner ask you to do that?

00:17:43Guest:We were shooting simultaneously.

00:17:45Marc:Is that true?

00:17:46Guest:Yeah.

00:17:47Guest:you know because like i think that tombstone is is a better movie i do too and it had a better script better script it didn't have a better cast i don't think but it had a better script well maybe it had val kilmer oh yeah it's uh doc holliday yeah yeah he was good he was the best thing in the movie huckleberry yeah incredible yeah did you like working with that guy

00:18:10Guest:Yeah, I love that.

00:18:12Marc:Was it Kurt Russell?

00:18:13Marc:Yeah.

00:18:14Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:18:14Marc:He's good, too.

00:18:15Guest:He's incredible.

00:18:16Marc:You guys are long haulers.

00:18:19Guest:And Paxton, Bill Paxton.

00:18:21Guest:I talked to him.

00:18:22Guest:What a sad fucking... He's a fucking good man.

00:18:24Marc:Such a great guy.

00:18:25Guest:Heartbreaking.

00:18:26Marc:It is, right?

00:18:27Marc:Yeah.

00:18:27Marc:I ended up watching a little bit of 1883, but what I did watch all of was Lifeguard.

00:18:38Yeah.

00:18:38Guest:How come?

00:18:40Guest:Because I just remember... Because it was only an hour and a half long.

00:18:44Marc:No, it was one of those things where I like to... Because with you, I know you in my head.

00:18:50Marc:You cut a path throughout people's lives because you show up here and there and your voice and everything else, but I recognize you from everything.

00:19:00Marc:So I realized that if I'm going to go look at some earlier shit, and you're pretty much a similar guy, right?

00:19:07Marc:Yeah.

00:19:07Marc:Because when I think about actors, because it's a sad movie in a way.

00:19:14Marc:Yeah, it is.

00:19:14Marc:You know what I mean?

00:19:15Marc:Yeah.

00:19:15Marc:And it could have gotten a little more menacing.

00:19:18Guest:It could have gotten a little darker.

00:19:20Marc:Right?

00:19:20Guest:Yeah.

00:19:21Marc:It's right there, and it doesn't.

00:19:22Marc:Because I think the director seemed like he wanted to make sort of almost a porn movie as opposed to really explore the sadness of that guy.

00:19:30Marc:Yeah.

00:19:30Marc:Right?

00:19:31Marc:Yeah.

00:19:31Marc:But then also you're in this movie Frogs, which was like a defining movie when I was a kid, but I didn't remember you in it.

00:19:40Guest:Yeah, well, that's a good thing maybe.

00:19:42Guest:You remember Ray Moland?

00:19:44Guest:Kind of.

00:19:45Guest:That must have been his last movie.

00:19:46Guest:Adam Rourke.

00:19:47Guest:Yeah.

00:19:48Marc:But Moland.

00:19:49Guest:Joan Van Ark.

00:19:50Marc:Was Moland like old?

00:19:51Marc:Yeah, he was old.

00:19:53Guest:That was one of his last films.

00:19:54Guest:Right.

00:19:55Guest:Yeah.

00:19:55Guest:I felt lucky to get a chance to be on the same set with the guy.

00:19:59Guest:Was he cool?

00:20:00Guest:Yeah, he was cool.

00:20:00Guest:He's all right?

00:20:01Guest:He wasn't a monster?

00:20:02Guest:Yeah, he was a good guy.

00:20:04Guest:So how did you get- You know the funny thing about Lifeguard?

00:20:07Guest:Yeah.

00:20:07Guest:I got Lifeguard because of frogs, which is kind of a continuum from job to job in some respect.

00:20:18Guest:Yeah.

00:20:18Guest:And that one was one of them.

00:20:20Guest:I tried to get a meeting on it.

00:20:21Guest:I knew about it.

00:20:22Guest:I'd heard about the script.

00:20:23Guest:About Lifeguard?

00:20:24Guest:Yeah.

00:20:24Marc:Why, because it was around?

00:20:25Marc:Like, people were into it?

00:20:27Guest:Yeah.

00:20:27Guest:The idea of it?

00:20:28Guest:I knew about it because I was living on the beach.

00:20:30Guest:Yeah.

00:20:31Guest:I was at William Morris at the time, and I'd seen the script.

00:20:35Guest:Yeah.

00:20:35Guest:And I was in fucking shape, and I was in the water every day, and I'd been a lifeguard in a swimming pool.

00:20:41Guest:My folks were both lifeguards, too.

00:20:43Guest:Really?

00:20:44Guest:Yeah, in El Paso.

00:20:45Guest:Yeah.

00:20:46Guest:So I knew that world.

00:20:47Guest:Uh-huh.

00:20:48Guest:The lifeguard world.

00:20:49Guest:I went to this guy, and he just kept telling me, hey, man, they don't want to meet you.

00:20:53Guest:They don't want to.

00:20:55Guest:Your agent?

00:20:55Guest:They don't know you.

00:20:56Guest:Yeah.

00:20:56Guest:They don't want to meet you.

00:20:57Guest:Yeah.

00:20:59Guest:So I let it go.

00:21:00Guest:And then a couple of weeks after that, after I finally backed off of this guy, I get a call from him.

00:21:06Guest:He says, hey, they want to meet you on the fucking lifeguard.

00:21:08Guest:Yeah.

00:21:09Guest:I said, really?

00:21:09Guest:Yeah.

00:21:10Guest:Shit.

00:21:11Guest:And that was it?

00:21:12Guest:He said, I don't know, man.

00:21:13Guest:I just want to meet you.

00:21:14Guest:Yeah.

00:21:14Guest:I went in, and it turned out Dan Petrie was the director.

00:21:19Guest:He told me this story about they fucking didn't know who they were going to use.

00:21:25Guest:Yeah.

00:21:26Guest:And he was in his bathroom brushing his teeth or something one night.

00:21:31Guest:And his wife, Dorothea, called him.

00:21:33Guest:And she's in bed watching TV.

00:21:34Guest:And she says, hey, Danny, come and look at this guy, Adam Rourke.

00:21:39Guest:Yeah.

00:21:40Guest:He's perfect for fucking life for the movie.

00:21:43Guest:She's watching Frogs.

00:21:44Guest:And Danny's in there.

00:21:47Guest:I know Adam Rourke.

00:21:48Guest:He's not right for it.

00:21:49Guest:And so he comes in.

00:21:51Guest:And he says, that's not Adam Rourke.

00:21:53Guest:That's Adam Rourke.

00:21:55Guest:And so they sat until the end of the fucking movie and got my name off the credits, found out who my agent was and called him.

00:22:02Guest:And that was it?

00:22:04Guest:That was it.

00:22:04Marc:Well, I thought the wild thing about that movie to me, it sort of seems to be part of that arc of 70s movies where you're not sort of an antihero, but there's sort of an existential sort of sadness to the guy.

00:22:16Marc:Yeah.

00:22:16Marc:But it was like sort of the tail end of that shit.

00:22:18Marc:Yeah.

00:22:19Marc:You know, it wasn't like five easy pieces.

00:22:20Marc:No.

00:22:21Marc:But it seemed like it was the next step towards the 80s.

00:22:25Marc:Yeah.

00:22:25Marc:Right?

00:22:26Marc:Yeah.

00:22:27Marc:So when you... Kathleen Quinn in the first film.

00:22:31Marc:I know.

00:22:31Marc:Was she really a teenager?

00:22:33Marc:Yeah.

00:22:34Marc:Yeah, that's where it got a little dicey.

00:22:36Marc:You know, like, because, you know, when you look at that...

00:22:38Marc:When you look at that through the lens of now, and when she goes... Because there's a moment there where she's like... Where they go in the tower together?

00:22:46Marc:Well, not that.

00:22:46Marc:But then after that, she's like, I could get you in trouble.

00:22:48Marc:And I'm like, oh, this is going to get weird.

00:22:50Marc:And then you finally meet the girl from... It's an old movie.

00:22:55Guest:Ann Archer.

00:22:56Marc:Yeah, Ann Archer.

00:22:57Marc:Was that her first movie, too?

00:22:59Guest:No, she'd been around.

00:23:00Guest:Beautiful Ann Archer.

00:23:01Marc:Yeah.

00:23:02Guest:Knockout.

00:23:03Guest:That's crazy.

00:23:04Guest:Sweet lady.

00:23:05Marc:So you grew up in Texas, though, before Portland?

00:23:08Guest:So you're like a Texan?

00:23:09Guest:No, I was born and raised in Sacramento.

00:23:10Marc:Oh, okay.

00:23:11Guest:My folks were in Texas for generations when the Sparks and the Elliott's were in Texas.

00:23:17Marc:So you're through Texas?

00:23:20Marc:Yeah.

00:23:20Marc:So you're Texan?

00:23:22Guest:Yeah, at heart.

00:23:23Marc:Yeah?

00:23:24Marc:Yeah.

00:23:24Marc:Do you like Texas?

00:23:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:23:27Guest:I mean, there's things about it I like.

00:23:29Guest:Yeah.

00:23:29Guest:There's things about it I fucking don't like.

00:23:32Marc:Sure, now it's not getting any.

00:23:33Guest:I don't like the fucking politics in there much.

00:23:36Guest:No, no.

00:23:36Guest:Or the politicians.

00:23:38Guest:No, no.

00:23:38Marc:There's the little hipster Alamo in Austin and Marfa surrounded by, you know?

00:23:45Marc:Yeah.

00:23:46Marc:But did you ever track your family back?

00:23:48Marc:I mean, do you know?

00:23:48Marc:Oh, really?

00:23:49Marc:Sure.

00:23:50Marc:So where did they come from?

00:23:51Guest:They came from Virginia, I believe, in the beginning, and they came out on a fucking horseback.

00:23:58Guest:I mean, it's like this working trail thing.

00:24:00Guest:It's like the movie, the series you're in.

00:24:02Guest:It was really close to me and resonated on a lot of levels.

00:24:08Guest:I had a surgeon, a guy named Kenny, a great, great, great grandfather.

00:24:15Guest:Yeah.

00:24:16Guest:Was a surgeon.

00:24:18Guest:Was at the Battle of San Jacinto with Sam Houston right after the Alamo.

00:24:22Guest:Yeah.

00:24:23Guest:Ended up when he passed away, when Dr. Kenny passed away, he was the Texas state surgeon.

00:24:31Guest:That was your line, your blood?

00:24:34Guest:Big deal, man.

00:24:35Guest:My mom was a state diving champion in El Paso, in the state of Texas.

00:24:41Guest:She graduated from UTEP.

00:24:44Guest:She had seven sisters and two brothers.

00:24:46Guest:What?

00:24:47Guest:A lot of cousins.

00:24:48Guest:A lot of cousins.

00:24:49Guest:You know them all?

00:24:50Guest:There are a few still there.

00:24:52Guest:Yeah?

00:24:52Guest:Most of them are gone, but there's a few still there, and I'm in touch with them.

00:24:56Marc:Well, this is like this guy, the guy you play in this in 1883 is...

00:25:02Marc:A dark character in a way, right?

00:25:04Marc:Yeah.

00:25:05Marc:The background of it is heartbreaking and horrible.

00:25:08Guest:Yeah.

00:25:09Guest:He was a vet from the war for one thing back in the day.

00:25:12Guest:I'm sure they didn't call it PTSD, but anybody who fought in a war and lost brothers and killed people.

00:25:22Marc:That would have been the Civil War, yeah?

00:25:23Marc:Yeah.

00:25:23Marc:And that was a bloody, horrible.

00:25:25Marc:Awful war.

00:25:26Marc:So you got to integrate this stuff.

00:25:28Marc:Yeah.

00:25:28Marc:And like, you know, you're older yourself.

00:25:31Marc:So, you know, there's a, like, and then his wife and daughter die of.

00:25:37Marc:Smallpox.

00:25:38Guest:And then.

00:25:38Guest:And he burns his house down.

00:25:40Guest:Like that.

00:25:40Guest:With them inside of it.

00:25:42Marc:Because they're both dead?

00:25:43Guest:Yeah.

00:25:45Guest:And he's on this mission to get to Oregon, to get to the beach.

00:25:48Guest:He's going to the coast.

00:25:50Guest:That's it.

00:25:50Guest:He's going to go see the ocean.

00:25:52Guest:He's been there before, but he's going back.

00:25:54Guest:It's like a death march.

00:25:55Guest:He's taking his wife in his head.

00:25:57Guest:Right.

00:25:58Guest:So she can see the ocean.

00:26:00Guest:That was her dream.

00:26:01Marc:But you're the guide for this crew that's, you know, settlers.

00:26:07Guest:Yeah, me and Thomas, my brother.

00:26:09Guest:Yeah.

00:26:09Guest:LaMonica Garrett.

00:26:11Guest:Yeah.

00:26:11Guest:He was a black man, and he was in the Buffalo Soldiers.

00:26:15Guest:And Tim was in the Civil War as well.

00:26:19Guest:Yeah.

00:26:20Guest:He fought for the South.

00:26:21Guest:Yeah.

00:26:22Guest:Tim McGraw, yeah.

00:26:23Guest:And I fought for the North.

00:26:24Guest:So there's a little tension?

00:26:25Guest:There's a little rub there.

00:26:26Marc:But when you do something like that, because you played a bunch of cowboys, but this backstory is not just backstory.

00:26:33Marc:You've got to be in it.

00:26:34Marc:You're sort of a dark dude.

00:26:37Marc:Do you think about that going into it?

00:26:39Guest:No, not really.

00:26:41Guest:When you get a script like this, this guy Taylor Sheridan created this thing.

00:26:47Guest:He created Yellowstone and wrote Sicario.

00:26:51Guest:Sicario?

00:26:52Guest:He wrote that?

00:26:53Yeah.

00:26:54Guest:The guy's a genius.

00:26:55Guest:That movie's crazy.

00:26:56Guest:This guy's a genius.

00:26:59Guest:What a fucking movie.

00:27:00Guest:And he knows about the West and he's authentic in the telling of the tale.

00:27:06Guest:So you just trust it.

00:27:07Guest:You just get in it.

00:27:09Guest:Just be true.

00:27:12Guest:Tell the truth.

00:27:12Guest:It's on the page.

00:27:13Marc:The words are there.

00:27:16Marc:So you're in Portland.

00:27:19Marc:When do you start doing the acting thing?

00:27:21Guest:I started in grade school, actually.

00:27:23Guest:Really?

00:27:24Guest:Yeah.

00:27:24Guest:I did Guys and Dolls in grade school.

00:27:27Guest:I was standing on the corner watching all the girls go by.

00:27:30Guest:So you were singing?

00:27:31Guest:It was a musical version.

00:27:31Guest:Yeah.

00:27:32Marc:Yeah, that's a good one.

00:27:34Marc:Yeah.

00:27:34Marc:Isn't that Let Be a Lady Tonight?

00:27:35Marc:That's it.

00:27:36Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:37Marc:That's it, man.

00:27:38Marc:So you did that in grade school.

00:27:39Marc:Yeah.

00:27:39Marc:And that's where you got the bug?

00:27:41Marc:That's where you knew?

00:27:41Guest:I got the bug.

00:27:42Guest:I saw a movie called Creature of the Black Lagoon one time in the 50s.

00:27:48Guest:I think it came out in 54.

00:27:50Guest:Yeah.

00:27:50Guest:Used to go to the neighborhood theater all the time on Saturdays.

00:27:54Guest:When I saw that, I thought, fuck, man.

00:27:56Guest:This is my world.

00:27:57Guest:Yeah.

00:27:57Guest:This is what I want to do.

00:27:58Guest:You want to crawl out of the deep?

00:28:00Guest:I want to crawl out of the deep.

00:28:03Yeah.

00:28:03Marc:How'd your parents feel about it?

00:28:06Guest:My mom supported it.

00:28:07Guest:My dad died thinking I was a total fucking idiot.

00:28:10Guest:My dad died when he was 54 and thinking, what the fuck is wrong with this kid?

00:28:16Guest:Oh, really?

00:28:17Marc:Yeah.

00:28:17Marc:But he wasn't mad at you.

00:28:19Guest:He was just disappointed.

00:28:21Guest:Nervous, disappointed.

00:28:22Guest:Might as well have been mad because disappointing is bad.

00:28:26Marc:So you had to live with that?

00:28:27Guest:I'm still living with it, pal.

00:28:29Guest:Yeah.

00:28:31Guest:I wish he'd have been around to see 1883 to see you win to see me succeed yeah how does that affect you in the long haul I don't know I think about it a lot you do yeah

00:28:46Guest:How did he die?

00:28:47Guest:Heart attack.

00:28:49Guest:I was down in Eugene going to school, and he died in my mom's arm on the living room floor.

00:28:55Guest:She was giving him CPR, being a good ex-lifeguard.

00:28:58Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:29:00Guest:He didn't make it.

00:29:01Marc:That's rough, man.

00:29:02Guest:Yeah.

00:29:02Marc:It's rough.

00:29:03Marc:Carry these curses, I guess, that we get.

00:29:06Marc:Yeah.

00:29:07Marc:Yeah.

00:29:07Marc:So when did you come down here?

00:29:09Marc:When did you study?

00:29:10Guest:I came down here, yeah.

00:29:12Guest:I laid out of school the year my dad died.

00:29:16Guest:I would have been a junior.

00:29:18Guest:Oh, you quit?

00:29:20Guest:Yeah.

00:29:20Guest:I went home, hanged with my mom, and I lost my student standing, my 2S standing like that.

00:29:25Guest:Yeah.

00:29:27Guest:And it was, you know, the fucking heights of Vietnam.

00:29:30Guest:What happened?

00:29:31Yeah.

00:29:31Guest:I got very fortunate and got in the National Guard.

00:29:35Guest:I was going to go.

00:29:36Guest:I went and checked out all the recruiters, and I had a stack of shit on the kitchen table, and I remember like it was this morning, my mom coming in, and we're drinking coffee, and she's there sitting there with tears in her eyes looking at this shit, kind of looking like that.

00:29:51Marc:Because you were thinking about joining?

00:29:52Guest:Yeah, I was going to go.

00:29:53Guest:I felt like my duty was being called.

00:29:59Guest:But you didn't get drafted, but you thought you were going to go anyways.

00:30:03Guest:Yeah.

00:30:03Guest:And my mom said, please don't do this.

00:30:06Marc:What year was that, 69, 68?

00:30:07Marc:67.

00:30:08Marc:So no one knew what was really going on at that time.

00:30:13Marc:No.

00:30:14Marc:It was just a call to duty.

00:30:16Marc:Yeah.

00:30:17Marc:Wow.

00:30:17Marc:So she talked you out of it?

00:30:19Guest:She talked me into thinking about it, but then unbeknownst to me, this actually was 65, sorry.

00:30:27Guest:Oh, so, okay, real early on, yeah.

00:30:29Guest:My dad had a friend that he worked with, and he had a friend that was a commander of the Air National Guard Base in Portland, out by the airport.

00:30:41Guest:He said, please go out and talk to this guy.

00:30:45Guest:I went and talked to them, and the guy said, you want to join?

00:30:49Guest:There's a slot for you.

00:30:51Marc:And that saved your life, probably.

00:30:53Guest:Probably.

00:30:53Guest:Saved my fucking head, for sure.

00:30:56Marc:Oh, my God.

00:30:57Guest:Yeah, fuck, man.

00:30:57Guest:I wouldn't have done well with killing people and seeing brothers getting killed.

00:31:02Guest:Oh, my God.

00:31:02Guest:Had I not even gotten killed myself.

00:31:05Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:31:06Guest:I wouldn't have done well with it.

00:31:07Guest:I know I wouldn't have.

00:31:08Marc:Yeah.

00:31:09Marc:And then like as time went on, as the 60s went on, where did your, did you stay in, did your mind shift about it?

00:31:19Marc:Like did you get active?

00:31:21Guest:No, but I didn't get active about the, you know, I look back further into that and the bus scene and all that shit.

00:31:31Guest:I wish the fuck I'd have gone down there.

00:31:34Marc:Civil rights movement?

00:31:35Guest:Yeah.

00:31:35Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:36Guest:I wish more than anything today that I would have done that.

00:31:40Guest:Yeah.

00:31:40Guest:That I could have fucking stood.

00:31:42Guest:Yeah.

00:31:42Guest:I could have fucking stood that fucking thing, but...

00:31:46Guest:I didn't, and I didn't in the Vietnam thing.

00:31:49Guest:And I felt, I'll tell you, I felt guilty about it.

00:31:53Guest:Yeah.

00:31:53Guest:I felt thankful about it.

00:31:55Guest:Yeah.

00:31:56Guest:That I didn't go.

00:31:57Guest:To Vietnam.

00:31:58Guest:But I didn't demonstrate.

00:31:59Guest:I didn't get active.

00:32:00Guest:Right.

00:32:01Guest:Because that turned into a whole other ugly thing that...

00:32:05Guest:that somehow those guys that signed up because they felt a call to duty for God or country or family or whatever, and then they come home and get spit on and all that shit, that put me off of that side of it.

00:32:25Guest:But I always felt guilty about it.

00:32:27Guest:And then I got an opportunity, I did a movie called We Were Soldiers,

00:32:30Guest:one time.

00:32:30Guest:Yeah, big movie.

00:32:32Guest:Played a guy that, you know, that was a, he served in four different military conflicts.

00:32:39Guest:This guy, Sergeant Major Basil Plumlee.

00:32:43Guest:And I got an opportunity to go see The Wall.

00:32:46Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:32:47Guest:It was on, uh,

00:32:48Guest:I guess it was on the 4th of July.

00:32:51Guest:Uh-huh.

00:32:52Guest:And I went there with Hal Moore, who'd written the book and was the general that, you know, that Mill played.

00:33:01Guest:Yeah.

00:33:02Guest:And Joe Massingale, who co-wrote the book.

00:33:07Guest:I got out of the car.

00:33:09Guest:We were with those guys.

00:33:10Guest:Plumlee didn't go because he said, I'm not a step hanger.

00:33:13Guest:I'm not going.

00:33:15Guest:That's what he referred to as, the guy hanging out on the steps.

00:33:19Guest:That's what I figured I was going to do, just go sit there in the audience.

00:33:22Guest:I'm moving up to the back of the fucking place.

00:33:27Guest:Massingill says, hey, Sam, come on down here, man.

00:33:29Guest:He said, I'm going to go up.

00:33:30Guest:He said, no, man, you got to say something.

00:33:33I said,

00:33:33Guest:what uh what the fuck yeah yeah so i end up getting up and speaking after everybody else had spoken and and i told this story about the national guard yeah you know vietnam was my war and here i am with you guys and

00:33:51Guest:i've always felt guilty about the fact that i didn't fucking go you know but i i got into the national guard and yeah i was one of the lucky ones and then after i got down off of that and i was pretty emotional about it and we got done with the talk part of it and we went over and we're hanging around the wall looking at names and looking for people we knew yeah did you know a lot of people

00:34:16Guest:There was a few of them.

00:34:18Guest:Yeah.

00:34:18Guest:Yeah, I found a couple of them, guys I went to high school with.

00:34:21Guest:Yeah.

00:34:23Guest:And this guy in a wheelchair rolled up to me and said, hey, Elliot.

00:34:26Yeah.

00:34:28Guest:Get the fuck over it, man.

00:34:30Guest:If I could have gotten to the National Guard, I'd have fucking been there, pal.

00:34:34Guest:Yeah.

00:34:35Guest:Get over it.

00:34:36Guest:Yeah.

00:34:37Guest:And I did.

00:34:38Guest:Huh.

00:34:39Guest:I did.

00:34:40Guest:Wow.

00:34:41Guest:But it took a vet to tell me that.

00:34:43Guest:A guy in a wheelchair to tell me that.

00:34:45Guest:Who lived it.

00:34:46Guest:That it was okay.

00:34:47Guest:Oh, thank God.

00:34:48Guest:Yeah.

00:34:48Marc:Got released.

00:34:49Marc:Yeah.

00:34:50Marc:One less thing to beat the shit out of yourself over.

00:34:52Marc:Yeah, exactly.

00:34:52Marc:And I'm one of those that does that.

00:34:55Marc:Right.

00:34:56Marc:Me too, pal.

00:34:57Marc:Yeah.

00:34:58Marc:So you got one less.

00:34:59Marc:Yeah.

00:34:59Marc:Now if you can just work through your dad thing, you'll be all set.

00:35:03Guest:Yeah, I'll get over that someday.

00:35:05Guest:Maybe.

00:35:06Guest:And I'm probably over it.

00:35:07Guest:I don't know.

00:35:08Guest:I just, every once in a while.

00:35:09Guest:It comes up.

00:35:10Guest:I just think, Jesus Christ, I wish he'd have fucking known.

00:35:13Marc:yeah why is it like my dad's uh still alive but he's losing his mind so like whatever he knew yeah he he knows less yeah you know yeah now it's just breakfast yeah if he can get breakfast in there yeah exactly yeah so when did when did you come to la

00:35:34Guest:66, I guess.

00:35:38Guest:Must have been amazing here.

00:35:39Guest:Yeah, fucking unbelievable.

00:35:41Guest:Man, I was doing what I wanted to do.

00:35:42Guest:I was finally on my way to pursue that career.

00:35:45Guest:I had fucking tunnel vision.

00:35:48Guest:Yeah, so you come down here.

00:35:50Guest:From 54, when that movie came out, I had tunnel vision.

00:35:54Yeah.

00:35:54Marc:So how do you get, like, I like talking to people about, like, not unlike we were talking about Sacramento, but Hollywood was a small town.

00:36:02Marc:Yeah.

00:36:03Marc:Really, right?

00:36:04Marc:Just a few studios, three networks.

00:36:07Guest:And it was a pretty closed town, too, man.

00:36:09Guest:It was tough to bust in.

00:36:10Guest:so what did you take acting classes or what'd you do i went to a workshop i went to the film industry workshop at columbia while i was working as a day laborer we're at day labor all over i lived in glendale lived right here yeah yeah glendale boulevard yeah and you were just taking odd jobs yeah yeah so you go to the workshop who teaches

00:36:34Guest:Nobody would know.

00:36:36Marc:And that was all you did?

00:36:37Guest:No.

00:36:39Guest:It started before I got here.

00:36:42Guest:My aunt started at my mom's house.

00:36:44Guest:Yeah.

00:36:45Guest:Next door, there was a couple who lived next door, and they had a daughter who was...

00:36:51Guest:in california yeah married to a guy that was an assistant director they came to visit one time yeah this guy's name was phil parslow yeah his wife's name was julina yeah and phil had just gotten off of a movie called the professionals that richard brooks directed as a western

00:37:13Marc:I kind of remember that movie.

00:37:14Guest:It was a great film.

00:37:15Guest:Yeah.

00:37:16Guest:And when they got up there, Jelena's mom said, hey, there's this kid next door that thinks he wants to be an actor.

00:37:22Guest:Would you go over, you know, Phil say hi to him and whatever.

00:37:27Guest:Yeah.

00:37:28Guest:So I went over and bullshitted with him and talked to him.

00:37:31Guest:And at the end of this talk we had, he gave me a phone number.

00:37:35Guest:thinking he'd never fucking hear from me, I'm sure.

00:37:39Guest:Little did he fucking know, buddy.

00:37:41Guest:I was driven.

00:37:43Guest:He was one of the first people I called when I got there.

00:37:46Marc:And what did you say?

00:37:47Guest:I ended up going and doing all this labor for him at his place.

00:37:51Guest:I poured some cement and painted

00:37:54Marc:So you got the handyman gig?

00:37:55Guest:Pain in this place, right.

00:37:57Guest:Yeah.

00:37:58Guest:And one day I was up on top of a ladder up above in their hallway, in their entryway, and this little guy comes through the door, guy in a suit, and he looked like Mr. Peepers.

00:38:07Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:38:09Guest:Had a pair of kind of horn-rimmed black glasses on.

00:38:13Guest:Nice-looking guy, but he was a little tiny guy.

00:38:16Guest:Yeah.

00:38:17Guest:His name was Bob Thompson, and he was a casting guy at Universal.

00:38:20Guest:No shit.

00:38:21Guest:And Bob embraced me like right away for whatever fucking reason.

00:38:27Guest:I would go from then on until I quit the labor business.

00:38:33Guest:I'd go home, take a shower, get dressed and go and sit in Bob's office and just watch.

00:38:40Guest:Just fucking watch.

00:38:41Guest:Everybody that came through the door, listened to him talking on the phone, and then listened to him give me advice.

00:38:48Marc:Uh-huh.

00:38:49Marc:So he took you under his wing as sort of an assistant kind of a guy?

00:38:53Guest:No, he just took me, he just, he fancied me.

00:38:56Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:38:56Guest:That was that?

00:38:57Guest:Yeah.

00:38:58Guest:He was married.

00:38:59Guest:He was married and had three kids, but he fancied me.

00:39:02Guest:Uh-huh.

00:39:03Guest:So I put up with that part of it, and he never imposed himself upon me, which was a great thing, and we became, like, really close friends.

00:39:11Marc:Just liked looking at you, having you around.

00:39:13Guest:Yeah.

00:39:14Marc:Yeah.

00:39:14Guest:Yeah.

00:39:15Guest:Well, that worked out.

00:39:15Guest:And he sent me to an agent.

00:39:17Guest:Yeah.

00:39:17Guest:A guy named Dick Bassman.

00:39:19Guest:Yeah.

00:39:19Guest:Worked at a place called General Artist Corporation.

00:39:24Guest:Dick Bassman took me to my first interview to meet a woman named Lillian Gallo over at Fox.

00:39:30Guest:Uh-huh.

00:39:32Guest:I ended up doing an audition for her.

00:39:34Guest:Then I did an audition for Jack Bauer, who was the head of casting.

00:39:37Guest:Then I did the same audition for Dick Zanuck, who was running the studio at that time.

00:39:43Marc:So it was still sort of like they still had studio players around.

00:39:46Guest:They still had them.

00:39:47Guest:They had them at Universal and they had them at Fox.

00:39:50Marc:So you could get a deal to kind of be a studio actor.

00:39:54Guest:They'd hire you and they'd put you in their shows.

00:39:56Guest:Right.

00:39:56Guest:The Universal one was a great program because they used their kids.

00:40:03Guest:Yeah.

00:40:03Guest:My wife, Catherine, was under contract to Universal.

00:40:06Marc:But you didn't know each other then?

00:40:07Guest:No.

00:40:08Guest:The deal at Fox was no good.

00:40:10Guest:It was all based on nepotism.

00:40:12Guest:Right.

00:40:13Guest:It was fucking girlfriends, boyfriends, and family members.

00:40:16Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:17Guest:So I had to figure out how to make it work for me.

00:40:21Marc:So that's the deal you got, the Fox deal?

00:40:23Guest:Yeah.

00:40:23Guest:So you had to fight it out?

00:40:24Guest:Bob said, you don't want to be here at this studio.

00:40:27Guest:He didn't want me to.

00:40:28Guest:Yeah.

00:40:29Guest:That was his advice.

00:40:30Guest:You don't want to be here under contract.

00:40:32Marc:So what happened there?

00:40:33Guest:Did you get some work?

00:40:34Guest:Yeah.

00:40:35Guest:I ended up meeting these two gals that worked in the administration building that were in the legal department.

00:40:44Guest:Yeah.

00:40:45Guest:And befriended them.

00:40:46Guest:Yeah.

00:40:46Guest:And we became good friends.

00:40:48Guest:And I found out, like, one of my first encounters with the two of them.

00:40:52Guest:Yeah.

00:40:53Guest:That all of the fucking scripts first go to the legal department.

00:40:58Guest:Yeah.

00:40:59Guest:And they let me come in and look at scripts.

00:41:01Guest:And they were doing a half a dozen shows at the time.

00:41:05Guest:TV.

00:41:05Guest:Yeah.

00:41:06Guest:Yeah.

00:41:07Guest:And I'd just look for the scripts, and I'd just fucking look for all the day parts, you know, or the two or three lines here and there.

00:41:13Guest:And then I'd go downstairs to the casting guys and leave them a note and say, I'm in this episode, and give them the name and the number of the episode.

00:41:21Guest:When it comes up, I'd like to come in and read for the fucking part.

00:41:24Guest:And it worked?

00:41:25Guest:And it worked.

00:41:26Guest:I got work doing that.

00:41:27Marc:Wait, so you're working on those old TV shows?

00:41:30Guest:Yeah.

00:41:31Guest:Felony Squad was my first show.

00:41:33Guest:I worked on a show called Land of the Giants.

00:41:35Guest:Yeah.

00:41:37Guest:Did a couple of episodes of Lancer.

00:41:39Guest:Yeah.

00:41:40Marc:Oh, who's Lancer?

00:41:41Marc:Who's that guy?

00:41:42Guest:James Stacy.

00:41:43Marc:Oh, okay.

00:41:44Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:41:44Marc:That was in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

00:41:46Marc:He's the guy that got in a motorcycle accident.

00:41:49Marc:Yeah, exactly.

00:41:50Marc:Oh, my God.

00:41:51Marc:Yeah.

00:41:52Marc:Good guy?

00:41:53Marc:Yeah, good guy.

00:41:54Marc:So then you're learning on the job.

00:41:56Guest:Yeah.

00:41:56Marc:So basically you're showing up, you got how you look, but now you're seeing how the whole fucking thing works.

00:42:01Guest:Yeah.

00:42:02Marc:And figuring it out.

00:42:03Guest:Yeah.

00:42:04Marc:Learning how to, what it was.

00:42:05Guest:Yeah, and I was embraced by the, there was a family, the Newman family, and I went with Melissa for like 10 years, long time, pal.

00:42:15Marc:Who's that?

00:42:16Marc:What Newman family?

00:42:17Guest:Melissa.

00:42:17Guest:She was Mark's daughter.

00:42:19Guest:Mark Newman?

00:42:21Guest:Mark was an agent, and all of his brothers, except for one of them, maybe two of them.

00:42:27Guest:Yeah.

00:42:28Guest:One was also, I think, an agent, maybe, but one of them, Irving, was a doctor.

00:42:34Guest:Uh-huh.

00:42:34Guest:They were the Newmans of the music world.

00:42:38Guest:Uh-huh.

00:42:39Guest:And, you know.

00:42:41Guest:Yeah.

00:42:42Guest:Yeah.

00:42:42Guest:That was a look at the inside of the business that no one should have ever happened.

00:42:51Marc:What was it?

00:42:54Guest:You know, Randy Newman, yeah.

00:42:57Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:42:58Guest:And his father was a composer.

00:43:01Guest:His father was a doctor.

00:43:04Marc:And then the uncle was the composer.

00:43:06Guest:Yeah.

00:43:06Marc:And you dated his sister?

00:43:08Marc:Is that what you're saying?

00:43:09Guest:No, I dated his cousin.

00:43:11Marc:Oh, his cousin.

00:43:13Guest:And now today it's Tommy and David that are both composers, great composers for Spielberg and those guys.

00:43:20Guest:Really?

00:43:21Guest:Yeah.

00:43:22Guest:They were that big when I met them.

00:43:24Marc:I've interviewed Randy.

00:43:25Guest:He's a good guy.

00:43:26Guest:He's a fucking great guy.

00:43:27Guest:He's hilarious.

00:43:29Marc:Yeah.

00:43:29Guest:He's a very funny, self-deprecating guy.

00:43:32Guest:Yeah.

00:43:33Guest:So you were able to see.

00:43:34Guest:I was in the middle of it.

00:43:35Guest:Oh, my God.

00:43:36Guest:Yeah.

00:43:36Guest:Just the greatest gift that I could have had, you know.

00:43:40Guest:Melissa's dad, Mark, one time referred to me to her.

00:43:44Guest:What are you doing with that farmer that come down from Oregon?

00:43:49Guest:So he figured I must have been a farmer.

00:43:52Marc:Wow, man.

00:43:53Guest:And I talked funny.

00:43:54Wow.

00:43:54Marc:And then you're still doing all the TV.

00:43:57Marc:You're doing like Mission Impossible and shit.

00:43:59Guest:Yeah, I went from the Fox contract to a year on Mission Impossible.

00:44:04Guest:And then I started doing those long-form television things.

00:44:07Guest:But what was the first movie?

00:44:09Guest:That I acted in?

00:44:11Guest:The first movie that I worked on was Butch Cassidy.

00:44:15Guest:I had one line off camera.

00:44:18Guest:I'll take two.

00:44:19Guest:I was in a card game in the beginning of the film.

00:44:22Marc:That must have been exciting.

00:44:23Guest:And that was a shadow on the wall, man.

00:44:25Guest:Literally.

00:44:26Guest:Yeah.

00:44:27Guest:My name's in the credits.

00:44:28Guest:I think it's next to the last name, you know, card player number two.

00:44:33Marc:Yeah.

00:44:33Guest:Was it exciting, though, being on the set?

00:44:35Guest:Sure.

00:44:35Guest:Are you kidding?

00:44:36Guest:Newman and Redford were in the scene.

00:44:40Guest:Wow.

00:44:40Guest:Redford was playing cards, and Newman came in afterwards.

00:44:43Guest:I remember this scene.

00:44:44Guest:Halfway through the fucking, you know.

00:44:46Guest:Yeah.

00:44:46Guest:Big deal.

00:44:47Marc:Yeah, it's a big deal.

00:44:48Guest:Big deal.

00:44:49Marc:Did you see like, were you like, I mean, there's all these tricks.

00:44:53Marc:So I, I, I've acted a bit, you know, not a lot, but I'm doing it more.

00:44:57Marc:And I talked to guys like you and I talked to like, like someone like, uh, Jeff Daniels, I talked to and he was like, right.

00:45:04Marc:But he was the guy that's like, you got it.

00:45:05Marc:It's your face, man.

00:45:06Marc:You have to understand your face.

00:45:08Marc:Cause he's like, all of movie acting is your face.

00:45:12Right.

00:45:12Marc:But, like, how do you learn that?

00:45:14Guest:Did you learn that?

00:45:15Guest:I think it's time.

00:45:17Guest:Yeah.

00:45:18Guest:I think if you have time at it, like Jeff and I have had, then you start to figure it out.

00:45:24Guest:But it's true.

00:45:25Guest:It's so true.

00:45:26Guest:It is true.

00:45:26Guest:It's all it is.

00:45:27Marc:And you don't even have to.

00:45:28Guest:And in the Western, it's a fucking hat.

00:45:30Guest:That's part of it.

00:45:31Guest:The hat in the face?

00:45:32Guest:Yeah.

00:45:32Marc:I talked to Andy Garcia, and he mentioned something that I didn't follow up on, but he talked about somebody that Cosner had taught him the trick with the matchbook to keep your hat on.

00:45:41Marc:What does that mean, like sticking a matchbook up there so when you're riding it?

00:45:45Guest:Oh, if it was, you know, they have a...

00:45:49Guest:There's a leather piece inside.

00:45:51Guest:And if the hat's like loose on you, you stick the matchbook into it.

00:45:57Guest:I've never heard that before, but I've stuffed my liner that I had before.

00:46:03Guest:I had a hat on this fucking show.

00:46:05Guest:I have a friend of mine that just recently, just a couple of weeks ago, passed away.

00:46:10Guest:A guy named Lester Bayless who started a costume company called United American Costume.

00:46:17Guest:And

00:46:17Guest:Lester's take on the whole fucking thing with westerns.

00:46:22Guest:He did John Wayne films forever.

00:46:25Guest:It all starts with a hat.

00:46:28Guest:And it does.

00:46:29Guest:Because of what you were talking about.

00:46:31Guest:The face.

00:46:32Guest:And a western hat is part of that.

00:46:36Guest:and how we didn't get the fucking hat till we got down there we down there in texas and it was a mistake because we got pushed into a box where we had to settle for a hat and it was a fucking hat that didn't fit me which one which movie we talking this one oh yeah 1883 yeah the fucking hat was too too loose on me and i can't it was it was a hat that just didn't fit oh you're sam elliot god damn it where's the fucking right hat

00:47:03Guest:I know, man.

00:47:05Guest:And Taylor, I remember talking to Taylor on the phone.

00:47:08Guest:We'll try a million hats on if we have to.

00:47:11Guest:You'll have the right hat.

00:47:12Guest:Don't worry about it.

00:47:14Guest:And I got down there and it didn't.

00:47:16Guest:It didn't happen.

00:47:17Guest:You didn't get the right hat?

00:47:18Guest:Mm-mm.

00:47:19Marc:God damn it.

00:47:20Marc:Now I got to look at that thing when I watch it and know that Sam wasn't happy with his hat.

00:47:26Guest:Yeah, that's what happens, you know.

00:47:29Guest:But I made it work.

00:47:30Guest:I just got into it and figured, you know, Shay's got a fucked up hat.

00:47:35Guest:That's all.

00:47:35Marc:What was wrong with this hat, man?

00:47:37Guest:Didn't stay on.

00:47:38Guest:That was the biggest part of it.

00:47:40Guest:But you didn't mind the way it looked?

00:47:42Guest:Yeah, it was all right.

00:47:43Guest:Yeah?

00:47:43Guest:It was all right.

00:47:44Guest:Not my favorite hat.

00:47:47Marc:So it's interesting to me because ultimately, like your career really picked up like midway through, right?

00:47:55Marc:I mean, you've never stopped working, whether it's TV or movies, but would you say that Mask was the first big one?

00:48:04Marc:Really?

00:48:05Marc:No?

00:48:05Marc:Yeah?

00:48:06Marc:Probably.

00:48:06Marc:Because I remember that.

00:48:07Marc:That was a huge movie.

00:48:08Marc:Probably.

00:48:08Marc:And you're like sort of this, you know, you and Cher, you're the kind of, you're the brick, you're the rock in a way.

00:48:15Marc:And do you feel like that put you on the map in a way?

00:48:20Marc:Because we did a lot of TV, though, I guess.

00:48:21Guest:Yeah, there's a few along the way, and that might be the first one.

00:48:26Marc:But you could have been stuck on TV for the rest of your life, really, right?

00:48:29Guest:You might not have ever done movies.

00:48:30Yeah.

00:48:32Guest:Yeah, I mean, that's a fucking trap that a lot of people fell into.

00:48:39Marc:I mean, they make a good living, but if you want to do movies, you do movies.

00:48:41Guest:Yeah, if you're working for money, that's one thing, but money isn't what motivates me today.

00:48:47Guest:It's what's on the fucking page that motivates me and the people that I'm working with.

00:48:52Guest:I was doing a television show.

00:48:54Guest:Yeah, which one?

00:48:55Guest:Called The Yellow Rose.

00:48:57Guest:It was a deal when Sybil Shepard was on it.

00:49:00Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:49:01Guest:Okay.

00:49:01Guest:And she was going with Peter Bogdanovich at that time.

00:49:04Guest:Right.

00:49:05Guest:We were sitting in a makeup trailer one day, and she said, you know, Peter's doing this movie with Cher, and he's looking for Gary Cooper on a motorcycle.

00:49:14Guest:And I told him about you.

00:49:15Guest:And I said, what?

00:49:16Guest:What the fuck?

00:49:17Guest:Yeah.

00:49:17Guest:Really?

00:49:18Guest:Yeah.

00:49:19Yeah.

00:49:19Guest:And I thought, oh, cool.

00:49:21Guest:So I leave and go to Hawaii to get married with Catherine.

00:49:28Marc:Now, Catherine Ross, she's amazing.

00:49:30Marc:And you were on the set of Butch and Sundance with her, but you never met her or you did?

00:49:36Guest:No, never met her.

00:49:37Guest:I was an extra, man.

00:49:38Guest:But did you see her?

00:49:39Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:49:40Guest:I watched her shoot a couple of scenes, and I saw her every day going into the commissary and just thought, wow.

00:49:46Marc:Was that where it started?

00:49:48Guest:Well, no, it started probably, she did a movie with James Stewart fucking eons ago, and she had hair down her butt and a fucking braid about that big, those fucking eyes and that beautiful face, and I just thought, who in the fuck is this?

00:50:04Guest:Yeah.

00:50:04Guest:That's where it started.

00:50:05Guest:Yeah.

00:50:07Marc:It was before Butch and Sundance?

00:50:09Guest:Oh, yeah, before The Graduate, before everything.

00:50:11Guest:You just were in love with her.

00:50:13Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:15Marc:And it worked out.

00:50:16Guest:Yeah, it worked out.

00:50:18Guest:And I get a call from my agent, Ron Meyer, in Hawaii.

00:50:24Guest:Yeah.

00:50:25Guest:That Peter Bogdanovich wants to meet me for a mask.

00:50:28Guest:Yeah.

00:50:28Guest:I said, fuck, man, I'm on my fucking honeymoon.

00:50:31Guest:I'm not fucking coming home for a meeting.

00:50:33Guest:Yeah.

00:50:33Guest:So you got to come.

00:50:34Guest:You got to come.

00:50:35Guest:This is a great script and share and blah, blah.

00:50:38Guest:And I said, Ronnie, what the fuck, man?

00:50:41Guest:i just got married yeah so i go back to the holly we're staying in and tell katherine about it and she said whatever she didn't say one way to me she sneaks up to the fucking phone and calls ron meyer and says he'll fucking be there set the fucking meeting and we flew out a day later and

00:51:05Marc:Lucky to be married to an actress in that moment.

00:51:09Guest:That's it.

00:51:10Marc:That's it.

00:51:11Marc:And then you got that movie.

00:51:12Guest:Yeah.

00:51:13Marc:So, Catherine Rosso, you're in love with her forever, but you didn't know if she'd be in love with you.

00:51:16Marc:How'd you make that happen?

00:51:17Guest:I don't know.

00:51:19Guest:I'm not sure she is anymore, actually.

00:51:21Guest:After being away for five years.

00:51:23Guest:months on this show man yeah yeah more thin oh yeah yeah you just it's hard it's up and down yeah of course marriage is up and down and hard work yeah and you got kids got a daughter cleo okay 37 wow yeah older kid this is a good one though she's maybe older chronologically but she's a baby still uh always be my baby oh that's sweet uh

00:51:49Marc:Well, yeah, I mean, it's hard being an actor.

00:51:51Marc:I mean, doing that.

00:51:51Marc:I can't.

00:51:52Marc:Like, this one, five, six months on a fucking show or a movie.

00:51:56Guest:That was the longest time I've ever been away from home.

00:51:59Guest:Really?

00:51:59Guest:Yeah.

00:52:00Guest:Was it awful or was it all right?

00:52:02Guest:Yeah, it was fun.

00:52:03Guest:Did you have a nice trailer?

00:52:03Guest:It was like a bunch of fucking gypsies, man.

00:52:05Guest:Sure.

00:52:06Guest:Yeah.

00:52:06Guest:Yeah, but I don't hang out in a trailer.

00:52:08Marc:You can't, right?

00:52:09Guest:It's the worst.

00:52:09Guest:I go there in the morning, get dressed, and go back in the evening, get undressed, and go home.

00:52:13Marc:Always sit on set and hang around.

00:52:15Marc:Yeah.

00:52:16Marc:Drink coffee.

00:52:16Guest:Sit in the chair.

00:52:17Marc:The movie is on set.

00:52:18Marc:Sure.

00:52:18Marc:You got the chair with your name on it.

00:52:20Guest:The movie and where the people are.

00:52:21Marc:Yeah, right.

00:52:22Marc:You can't sit in those fucking trailers.

00:52:24Marc:Lose your mind.

00:52:25Marc:Yeah.

00:52:25Marc:And there's always like that horrible fake leather on the chairs.

00:52:29Marc:There's a...

00:52:30Marc:Like, you don't even want to sit in them.

00:52:32Marc:Right.

00:52:33Marc:Like, they can't make a trailer without uncomfortable fucking place to lay down?

00:52:36Guest:No, this place was comfortable.

00:52:38Guest:It was a good one.

00:52:39Guest:Oh, you got a good one?

00:52:39Guest:It was a good one.

00:52:40Marc:I would hope.

00:52:41Marc:Five months.

00:52:41Marc:Jesus.

00:52:42Guest:Yeah.

00:52:42Marc:So, like, let's talk about the Lebowski thing.

00:52:45Marc:Can we for a minute?

00:52:46Guest:Sure.

00:52:47Marc:I have to assume that you have a lot of insane fans because of the big Lebowski.

00:52:53Marc:And they want answers.

00:52:56Marc:You do, right?

00:52:57Marc:People love that movie, man.

00:52:58Guest:Yeah.

00:52:59Marc:What do you think of it?

00:53:00Guest:I was lucky to be there.

00:53:03Guest:You shit me?

00:53:04Guest:I mean, number one, Jeff and I are contemporaries almost.

00:53:09Guest:He started fucking 10 years before I did, I think.

00:53:13Guest:Yeah, he's great.

00:53:14Guest:You guys, yeah.

00:53:15Guest:Same generation.

00:53:16Guest:Jeff is the dude, for sure.

00:53:18Marc:He's the dude, yes.

00:53:20Guest:And then with, you know, the Coen brothers.

00:53:23Guest:I mean, what the fuck?

00:53:25Guest:Yeah.

00:53:25Marc:Did they just call you?

00:53:26Marc:Because it seems like you were that guy.

00:53:28Guest:They reached out to me, yeah.

00:53:30Marc:They're like, you know, it feels like they wrote it for you.

00:53:32Guest:By then I was in kind of the box, you know.

00:53:35Guest:I've always felt like I've kind of got boxed in because of these westerns that I've done.

00:53:40Guest:Right.

00:53:40Guest:Like people just figure that's all I can do.

00:53:43Guest:And for a time I fucking thought, what the fuck?

00:53:47Guest:yeah i gotta stop doing these so i can try to do something else but then i embraced it and that's like but what would you think big lebowski was incredible i was only there two days right it's such a funny part never got out of the bowling alley such a funny part we did the voiceovers in the trailer

00:54:07Marc:That's right, you narrate the whole thing, don't you?

00:54:10Guest:Yeah.

00:54:11Guest:And I thought we were doing the voiceovers for a temp track or something, and they said, oh, no, man, they had a deck about that big, and that was it.

00:54:19Guest:And I said, oh, no, this is it, and it was it.

00:54:23Marc:So when you say, like, you know, like, accepting the fact that you're just going to be this Western guy, like, well, what did you picture yourself doing?

00:54:31Marc:Like, you know, what other kind of roles would you rather be doing?

00:54:34Guest:Look, anything.

00:54:34Guest:Anything?

00:54:36Guest:Yeah.

00:54:36Guest:Anything.

00:54:37Guest:Anything where you didn't have to pick a hat?

00:54:39Guest:No, no, anything good.

00:54:40Guest:Yeah.

00:54:41Guest:Anything good.

00:54:42Guest:But you did other stuff.

00:54:43Guest:Yeah, I did.

00:54:44Guest:I played a lot of military guys, you know, and I played a few bikers, you know, Roadhouse and Mask, you know, and bikers and cowboys share some sort of Sam's sensibility, you know.

00:54:59Marc:But there's something dug in, man.

00:55:01Marc:There's like, you know, Sam Elliott's, yeah, it's a cowboy thing.

00:55:05Marc:It's an American thing.

00:55:06Marc:You're a known thing, right?

00:55:08Marc:Right.

00:55:08Guest:The known thing.

00:55:10Marc:Yeah.

00:55:11Guest:People probably know more about me than I'd like.

00:55:14Guest:Do they?

00:55:15Guest:Thanks to that shit.

00:55:16Guest:What, the internet?

00:55:17Marc:Yeah.

00:55:18Marc:What do you think's out there?

00:55:20Guest:I don't know.

00:55:21Marc:I don't want to know.

00:55:22Marc:I don't do any of it.

00:55:23Marc:Oh, you did the Hulk.

00:55:24Marc:You did all kinds of shit.

00:55:26Marc:Yeah.

00:55:27Marc:The Star is Born thing.

00:55:29Marc:I found something kind of, I can't get over the fact that

00:55:33Marc:At that point where you tell Bradley that you stole my personality, and then you realize in that moment that he had sort of done your voice the entire movie?

00:55:44Marc:That's fucking crazy.

00:55:47Marc:Now, did you guys work together on that shit?

00:55:49Guest:I'd never known Bradley other than watching him.

00:55:52Guest:Yeah.

00:55:53Guest:And I remember I didn't I'd not seen all of his work.

00:55:58Guest:Sure.

00:55:59Guest:But I remember having kind of this preconceived thought that he'd done some really silly shit.

00:56:07Guest:Uh-huh.

00:56:09Guest:Which I've seen since and now see that there was a lot more to it than I had given him credit for.

00:56:17Guest:Uh-huh.

00:56:18Guest:But I went and met Bradley and

00:56:22Guest:He was over there in the Palisades at the time, and I had word that he was interested in me for this part.

00:56:30Guest:Yeah.

00:56:30Guest:I was doing a ranch at the time, a television series.

00:56:34Guest:Yeah.

00:56:35Marc:Oh, people like that show.

00:56:36Guest:Yeah.

00:56:37Guest:Yeah.

00:56:37Guest:So I go over and I meet with Bradley, and we go inside, and he's the most gracious fucking human being I think I've ever been around.

00:56:45Guest:Just fucking the nicest man.

00:56:48Guest:Yeah.

00:56:48Guest:I go in and we sit down and we're going to have dinner.

00:56:53Guest:We're just shooting this shit, talking about our moms and talking about the script.

00:56:59Guest:He says, I want to play something for you.

00:57:00Guest:You're going to think it's really weird, but I want you to listen to this.

00:57:04Guest:He goes over this sound system he's got and he turns it on.

00:57:08Guest:It's him doing my voice.

00:57:12Guest:He's been working with a voice coach long before I met him.

00:57:17Marc:No shit.

00:57:18Guest:And he's saying the shit, and it sounds very much like me.

00:57:21Guest:Yeah.

00:57:22Guest:And the shit.

00:57:23Guest:And so he turns it off, and I said, yeah, you're right, man.

00:57:26Guest:That is fucking weird.

00:57:28Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:57:29Guest:And then he told me about his idea about the brothers and the Star is Born.

00:57:36Guest:That was the fourth version of it.

00:57:38Guest:Yeah.

00:57:38Guest:There was never a brother before.

00:57:39Guest:That was all Bradley's.

00:57:43Guest:Really?

00:57:43Guest:And the other writer's concoction.

00:57:46Really?

00:57:47Marc:I thought it was the best turn in the movie.

00:57:51Guest:I think it was the best Star Wars Born that's been made.

00:57:55Guest:Sure.

00:57:56Guest:I don't say that because I was in it.

00:57:58Guest:I just thought, fuck.

00:58:01Guest:Between he and Gaga and everybody else that was around for that matter.

00:58:07Guest:They had a lot of really good stuff.

00:58:10Marc:Yeah, but that's so interesting to me.

00:58:14Marc:This is before you got the part.

00:58:16Guest:He brought you over.

00:58:17Marc:Yep.

00:58:18Marc:He cornered you.

00:58:19Guest:Yep.

00:58:20Guest:He knew I was going to fucking do it, I think, before I even got a call to go do it.

00:58:26Guest:He did?

00:58:27Guest:The last thing he told me, he said, hey, man, just trust me.

00:58:31Guest:Yeah.

00:58:32Guest:You just trust me.

00:58:33Guest:You'll be glad you did it.

00:58:34Marc:It was such a tragic.

00:58:35Guest:He was right.

00:58:36Marc:Yeah, it was great.

00:58:37Guest:He was right.

00:58:37Marc:It was such a tragic sort of component of that character that he had no sense of self.

00:58:46Guest:Yep.

00:58:46Marc:Right?

00:58:47Guest:Yep.

00:58:48Marc:Yeah, it was genius.

00:58:49Guest:That was genius.

00:58:50Guest:He really is a genius.

00:58:51Guest:Yeah.

00:58:52Guest:I mean, what the fuck?

00:58:53Guest:He was a brilliant director.

00:58:55Guest:Yeah?

00:58:55Guest:Worked that screenplay over.

00:58:57Marc:What makes a brilliant director?

00:58:58Guest:You work with a lot of them.

00:59:00Guest:Well, fuck.

00:59:00Guest:I mean, somebody that just... The director is the captain of the ship.

00:59:06Guest:Sure, man.

00:59:07Guest:Yeah.

00:59:08Guest:And if you feel like he has some vision as to where the fuck he wants to take the ship...

00:59:13Guest:You know, we're just people in a crew.

00:59:17Guest:My job has always been to give the director what he wants.

00:59:21Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:22Guest:You know?

00:59:22Guest:Sure.

00:59:23Guest:If you get in there with some guy that doesn't know what he fucking wants, then you're just fucking on your own.

00:59:28Marc:That's a long day, right?

00:59:29Guest:That was Bradley.

00:59:30Guest:Yeah.

00:59:30Guest:That first scene we had together when we were fucking at odds where he comes in and cold cocks me in front of all those people.

00:59:41Guest:I fucking went out there and I was nervous anyway because I still get nervous and working in a big film with he and Gaga.

00:59:49Guest:We went out way on the other side of the fucking town, some racetrack somewhere.

00:59:53Guest:I'm thinking, fuck, we're just gonna be off to the side doing this scene.

01:00:00Guest:And we walked into an area that's about from here to that outside wall square.

01:00:05Guest:Yeah.

01:00:06Guest:And there are fucking solid people three deep all the way around it.

01:00:10Guest:And that's where we played that fucking scene.

01:00:12Guest:Yeah.

01:00:12Guest:And I was fucking really uptight about it.

01:00:17Guest:bradley kept knocking me down and i'd get up and fuck i was like really emotional for for it in the beginning i was like fucking crying and shit yeah yeah like really fucking out there and bradley would just come down to me get in my face and he said hey man get up get up and fucking be pissed and

01:00:36Guest:get up on my, you know.

01:00:38Guest:So we were getting in close and even a couple of minutes later he said, put your hands on me.

01:00:43Guest:Put your hands on me.

01:00:44Guest:And so that's when it got really fucking good, you know.

01:00:48Guest:Yeah.

01:00:49Guest:That's what a good director is.

01:00:52Guest:He sees something.

01:00:54Guest:He sees what he wants.

01:00:55Guest:And he has the ability to communicate it to the actor.

01:00:59Marc:And he's the actor too.

01:01:00Guest:That helps.

01:01:00Guest:And he's acting at the same fucking time.

01:01:03Guest:Wow, man.

01:01:04Guest:And singing.

01:01:06Guest:And no pre-recorded nothing.

01:01:07Guest:Everything was live.

01:01:08Guest:Every song they sang in that movie was live.

01:01:12Guest:He went all in and it paid off.

01:01:14Guest:He and Gaga both went all in.

01:01:16Guest:Yeah, Gaga's great.

01:01:18Guest:I even liked that Gucci movie.

01:01:20Marc:No one seems to like it that much.

01:01:21Guest:I wasn't too keen on it either.

01:01:22Marc:You didn't like it?

01:01:23Marc:I liked it.

01:01:24Guest:I don't know.

01:01:24Guest:I love her.

01:01:25Guest:Yeah, she's great.

01:01:27Guest:I love her.

01:01:28Marc:Did you see Power of the Dog?

01:01:30Marc:Did you watch that movie?

01:01:31Guest:Yeah, you want to talk about that piece of shit?

01:01:33Marc:You didn't like that one?

01:01:35Guest:Fuck no.

01:01:36Guest:Okay, why?

01:01:37Guest:I'll tell you why.

01:01:39Guest:Okay.

01:01:41Guest:I read a fucking, I didn't like it anyway.

01:01:43Guest:Yeah.

01:01:43Guest:I looked at it when I was down there in Texas during 1883.

01:01:48Guest:Yeah.

01:01:49Guest:And what really brought it home to me the other day, where I said, do you want to fucking talk about it?

01:01:54Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:01:55Guest:There was a fucking full-page ad out in the LA Times, and there was a review, not a review, but a clip.

01:02:06Guest:Blurb?

01:02:06Guest:A clip, yeah.

01:02:07Guest:Yeah.

01:02:08Guest:And it talked about the evisceration of the American myth.

01:02:16Guest:And I thought, what the fuck?

01:02:20Guest:What the fuck?

01:02:21Guest:What does that mean?

01:02:21Guest:This is the guy that's done Westerns forever.

01:02:24Guest:For his whole life.

01:02:25Guest:The evisceration of the American West.

01:02:26Guest:I mean, they made it look like, what are all those dancers, those guys in New York that wear bow ties and not much else?

01:02:34Guest:Uh-huh.

01:02:35Guest:Remember them from back in the day?

01:02:36Guest:Oh, the Chippendales?

01:02:37Guest:Yeah.

01:02:38Guest:Yeah.

01:02:38Guest:That's what all these fucking cowboys in that movie looked like.

01:02:42Guest:Uh-huh.

01:02:42Guest:They're all running around in chaps and no shirts.

01:02:45Guest:There's all these illusions of homosexuality throughout the fucking movie.

01:02:50Guest:Yeah.

01:02:51Guest:I think that's what the movie's about.

01:02:53Guest:Yeah.

01:02:54Guest:Well, what the fuck does this woman from... Who, Jane Campion?

01:02:58Guest:Yeah.

01:02:59Guest:She's a brilliant director, by the way.

01:03:01Guest:I love her work.

01:03:02Guest:Right.

01:03:02Guest:Previous work.

01:03:03Guest:Sure.

01:03:04Sure.

01:03:04Guest:But what the fuck does this woman from down there come?

01:03:08Guest:Oh, New Zealand.

01:03:08Guest:New Zealand.

01:03:09Guest:Right.

01:03:10Guest:Know about the American West?

01:03:13Guest:And why the fuck does she shoot this movie in New Zealand and call it Montana?

01:03:19Guest:And say, this is the way it was.

01:03:21Guest:It's got you, this movie.

01:03:23Guest:So that fucking rubbed me the wrong way, pal.

01:03:26Guest:Yeah.

01:03:26Guest:And the myth is that they were these, you know, macho men out there with the cattle.

01:03:33Guest:yeah i just come from fucking texas where i was hanging out with families not men but families yeah big long extended multiple generation families right that made their living and their lives were all about being cowboys and boy when i fucking saw that i thought what the fuck

01:03:56Guest:Yeah.

01:03:56Guest:Where are we in this world today?

01:03:59Marc:Well, I mean, I don't know that that's the biggest issue at hand.

01:04:03Guest:Well, it's not the biggest issue at hand, no.

01:04:06Guest:But for me, it was the only issue.

01:04:10Guest:Right.

01:04:10Guest:Because there was so much of it.

01:04:12Guest:I mean, Cumberbatch never got out of his fucking chaps.

01:04:16Guest:He had two pair of chaps, a woolly pair and a leather pair.

01:04:19Guest:Yeah.

01:04:19Guest:And every fucking time he'd walk in from somewhere, I don't know where in the fucking, he never was on a horse.

01:04:25Guest:Yeah.

01:04:26Guest:Maybe once.

01:04:27Guest:Yeah.

01:04:27Guest:He'd walk into the fucking house, storm up the fucking stairs, go lay on his bed in his shafts and play his banjo.

01:04:34Guest:And it's like, what the fuck?

01:04:37Guest:What the fuck?

01:04:38Yeah.

01:04:39Guest:Where's the Western?

01:04:43Guest:Where's the Western in this Western?

01:04:45Marc:I get what you're saying, but there's no part of you that knowing art films and knowing a separation that this is a specific story and that the idea that it's an evisceration of the American West was a critic saying something.

01:04:57Guest:No, the American myth.

01:04:58Guest:The American myth, yeah.

01:05:00Guest:Yeah.

01:05:01Marc:Well, you're part of it, so I guess it's personal insult.

01:05:05Guest:I took it personal.

01:05:05Guest:I took it fucking personal, pal.

01:05:08Marc:What is your favorite Western?

01:05:09Guest:I don't have one.

01:05:10Guest:Oh, you don't?

01:05:11Guest:No.

01:05:11Guest:You like watching them?

01:05:12Guest:Searchers.

01:05:13Yeah.

01:05:14Guest:Searchers.

01:05:15Guest:All those early ones.

01:05:17Guest:Yeah.

01:05:17Guest:Not all of them.

01:05:18Guest:I mean, I wasn't a huge John Wayne fan.

01:05:20Guest:Yeah.

01:05:21Guest:But, you know.

01:05:22Guest:I like the Searchers.

01:05:23Guest:Gary Cooper was my guy.

01:05:24Guest:High Noon?

01:05:25Guest:Yeah.

01:05:26Guest:Yeah, that was good.

01:05:26Guest:Jimmy Stewart.

01:05:28Guest:Yeah.

01:05:29Marc:Lee Marvin.

01:05:30Marc:What was that one they were both in?

01:05:32Marc:Where Lee Marvin plays the wild man and Jimmy Stewart plays the senator?

01:05:36Marc:Oh, that was good.

01:05:37Marc:I just watched that.

01:05:38Marc:But you know what one I watch a lot?

01:05:41Marc:Is The Unforgiven.

01:05:43Marc:Yeah, it's a great film.

01:05:44Marc:Holy fuck.

01:05:45Guest:Yeah, that guy can make a movie.

01:05:47Marc:Yeah.

01:05:47Guest:Do you know him?

01:05:49Guest:No, I've met him.

01:05:50Guest:You never worked with him?

01:05:51Guest:Never hired me.

01:05:52Marc:God damn it.

01:05:53Guest:Yeah, no shit.

01:05:54Guest:That's what I always thought.

01:05:55Guest:What the fuck, Clint?

01:05:56Guest:Come on, man.

01:05:58Marc:So all this time, though, were you, like, all this time you've been out here, like, do you remember, like, in the 60s and 70s, like, was it fun to be in Hollywood?

01:06:08Marc:Sure.

01:06:09Marc:Sure.

01:06:11Guest:But that's something else I missed.

01:06:12Guest:It was like the busing and all that shit in Vietnam.

01:06:17Guest:I missed that, too.

01:06:18Guest:I should have been hanging out in Laurel Canyon.

01:06:20Guest:You weren't.

01:06:20Guest:I probably never would have.

01:06:21Guest:I'd probably done as well there as I would have done in Vietnam.

01:06:27Guest:I'd probably been buried up there somewhere.

01:06:29Guest:Yeah.

01:06:30Guest:If I saw Joni Mitchell driving over Laurel Canyon, that would have been it.

01:06:35Guest:Yeah.

01:06:35Guest:You weren't part of that trip?

01:06:37Marc:No.

01:06:37Marc:What was your scene?

01:06:39Marc:Hmm?

01:06:39Marc:What was your scene back then?

01:06:40Guest:I just was in deep working, you know.

01:06:43Marc:Oh, that was it?

01:06:44Guest:Yeah.

01:06:44Guest:And then you met, you and Catherine got it together when?

01:06:47Guest:1978.

01:06:48Guest:A terrible gothic horror movie called The Legacy.

01:06:53Guest:It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great.

01:06:55Guest:That's where you met her again?

01:06:58Guest:Well, I never met her on Buzz Cassidy.

01:06:59Guest:I never met before.

01:07:01Guest:I met her there.

01:07:02Guest:Was it...

01:07:02Marc:Was it part of the agenda to meet her?

01:07:07Marc:Did you get that movie because she was in it?

01:07:08Guest:I don't think so.

01:07:12Guest:It was an opportunity that got me out of the country.

01:07:17Guest:Yeah.

01:07:18Guest:It was just an opportunity.

01:07:20Guest:Yeah, but you didn't know she was in it?

01:07:22Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:07:22Guest:I knew she was going to be in it.

01:07:24Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:24Marc:Finally.

01:07:25Guest:You finally got to hang out.

01:07:27Marc:Well, congratulations for doing all the stuff.

01:07:32Marc:Thank you.

01:07:32Guest:Yeah, man.

01:07:33Marc:It was great.

01:07:33Marc:Thank you, brother.

01:07:34Marc:It's great to see you.

01:07:35Marc:It's great to talk to you.

01:07:36Marc:It's great to hear the stories.

01:07:38Marc:And this show looks great.

01:07:41Marc:I mean, it looks great.

01:07:41Marc:And it's an interesting character.

01:07:43Marc:It is a good one.

01:07:44Marc:Well, yeah.

01:07:44Marc:And like the other one, this is hugely successful.

01:07:48Marc:And do you have a big fan base from, you don't know yet really from this one.

01:07:52Guest:Well, I know, yeah, this thing, when it went on the air, the first episode was the highest rated thing in fucking, I don't know how long.

01:08:00Guest:Blew up?

01:08:00Guest:Ten years or some shit.

01:08:02Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:03Guest:It's insane.

01:08:04Guest:And it is connected to it in that.

01:08:09Guest:It's a backstory, right?

01:08:10Guest:Yeah, it's a prequel.

01:08:12Guest:Right, yeah.

01:08:13Guest:I'm not a Yellowstone fan.

01:08:15Guest:I don't watch Yellowstone.

01:08:16Guest:To me, you know, I love Cosner.

01:08:19Guest:There's a lot of good people on the cast, a few of them I've worked with before.

01:08:23Guest:Nothing against any of them, but it's just too much like fucking Dallas or something for me.

01:08:27Marc:Well, it seems to be the model, right?

01:08:29Guest:Too much shit.

01:08:30Marc:Too soap operatic?

01:08:32Guest:Too much of that for me.

01:08:34Marc:What do you watch?

01:08:35Marc:What do you like?

01:08:36Guest:I don't watch much.

01:08:37Guest:No?

01:08:38Guest:You read?

01:08:39Guest:You sit?

01:08:39Guest:Yeah, I work in a yard a lot.

01:08:41Marc:Yeah?

01:08:42Marc:Growing shit?

01:08:43Marc:Mm-hmm.

01:08:43Marc:All right.

01:08:44Marc:Good talking to you, man.

01:08:45Marc:Likewise.

01:08:51Marc:sam elliot the new show is 1883 now streaming on paramount plus um i uh i'm gonna play this guitar now and i'll talk to you in a little while i did record this a couple of days ago so if anything horrendous has happened any more horrible things i must have missed it

01:09:20Guest:guitar solo

01:09:46Guest:guitar solo

01:10:20Marc:Boomer lives.

01:10:22Marc:Monkey and La Fonda and cat angels everywhere.

01:10:45Guest:.

01:10:47Guest:.

01:10:48Guest:.

01:11:12Guest:Thank you.