Episode 1302 - Sam Richardson
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fuck stirs?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:How are you doing?
Marc:How's your COVID?
Marc:How's the COVID?
Marc:How are you handling your COVID?
Marc:Are you through the tunnel?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm just asking that because I got to assume at least half of you has gotten to the COVID.
Marc:But I am, what is it now, two weeks and two days out from my positive test.
Marc:And that was a day after I felt a little shitty and had a negative test.
Marc:I feel okay.
Marc:I feel like I'm through the tunnel.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:The more I talk to people, the more similar the reactions and symptoms are.
Marc:Well, but let's not do that right now.
Marc:Let me tell you about who's on my show today.
Marc:Sam Richardson is here.
Marc:Sam Richardson.
Marc:He's Richard Splett from Veep.
Marc:He's longtime friends with Tim Robinson and created the series Detroiters with Tim.
Marc:He also is on Tim's sketch series, I Think You Should Leave, which I am surprised I like.
Marc:But that guy, Tim Robinson, kind of fascinates me.
Marc:But I'm sure I'm projecting a lot into it.
Marc:Because if you watch his characters or the sort of the character he does in all his sketches, you're sort of like, what the fuck is up with that guy?
Marc:It's like a Tim Heidegger situation.
Marc:Then you meet them and you're like, oh, you're just a guy.
Marc:You're a guy that does things that aren't necessarily who you are.
Marc:I think that's it.
Marc:I do know that I pestered Sam a bit too much, I think, about Tim.
Marc:I was like, so you know this Tim guy?
Marc:So why don't you tell Tim to come on here?
Marc:What's Tim doing?
Marc:I kind of hate when I do that, but I'm mildly fascinated with Tim Robinson.
Marc:You wouldn't think that's my kind of comedy, but it kind of is.
Marc:Uh, so Sam's in this new murder mystery series, the after party that's on Apple TV.
Marc:I watched a couple of those to get the flavor, uh, of what it is.
Marc:It's kind of a knives out, kind of a clue thing, you know, what are you gonna do with your life?
Marc:What are you going to do with your life if you had a choice?
Marc:Where are you going to go?
Marc:What are you going to do?
Marc:Where is there to run?
Marc:Where is there to hide?
Marc:Is hiding necessary?
Marc:That's the one big question.
Marc:I think I've asked this before.
Marc:It's like, hey, man, you know, we got to figure out how to survive the apocalypse.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Who wants to live in that fucking bullshit world?
Marc:A couple of things.
Marc:I watched Kamau Bell's four part Bill Cosby documentary, which I think is an important thing to watch to really kind of
Marc:understand the context and framework and history and the sort of move along the historical lines of Bill Cosby's career and the impact he had on the culture and on the black community and also to look at the timeline of when these rapes happened.
Marc:But I think the most important thing that Kamau's documentary does is give the victims a lot of time.
Marc:The victims that he chose to talk to or that wanted to talk to him, or I don't know how he decided or how it was booked, but there are several victims who did not know each other.
Marc:A lot of them did not want to tell anybody because no one would believe them.
Marc:Then they had the same story.
Marc:But to really hear those stories told and fleshed out and lived through, again, through the narrative of the victim is a powerful thing that leaves no room for any sort of speculation.
Marc:But it is an important thing.
Marc:thing to watch to really put Cosby into context and then hold him accountable, at least in your own mind.
Marc:So you know, whether you're most people know that he's guilty, but but it's just sort of like how.
Marc:Like, what does that mean when you really look at the numbers?
Marc:There's a lot of attention paid to the victims, the number of victims, the timeline of the victims alongside of where his career was at.
Marc:So it really gives you a full sort of picture of the arc of Cosby and the knowledge that.
Marc:The raping was going on throughout the entire arc.
Marc:And then how do you deal with that?
Marc:How do you deal with... Kamau is wrestling with it throughout the thing and at the end.
Marc:How do you sort of accept or not accept Cosby for what he was in a good way against accept and process the fact that he was a...
Marc:predatory rapist yeah it was it was no easy trick and I thought that the doc was effective and I like come out and I should actually text him to congratulate him and then and then I'll text Godfrey and ask him like why why so much Godfrey in this documentary
Marc:In other news, now I'm not bragging and I'm not tooting my own horn, but I am fortunate to be sort of a mid-level celebrity and a kind of a low-level influencer, I guess, whatever that means.
Marc:Either way, this is not a paid plug, but it's something that happened.
Marc:I was given a Oklahoma Joe's Bronco drum smoker.
Marc:It looks almost like a sort of vault-like garbage can with a thermometer on it and like an oven lid.
Marc:It's an impressive-looking thing.
Marc:But I took the opportunity to take it from them because I've been using this Traeger, a pellet grill, which is sort of a suburban smoker in a way, which is not bad, but it requires zero skill.
Marc:Not that, you know, I'm not going to go down some sort of smoker rabbit hole.
Marc:You know, I'm pretty basic, but I'd like to be able to use the thing I have for what it is.
Marc:I'm not going to start working towards competing with my ribs.
Marc:I'm not going to enter the world championship pulled pork playoff.
Marc:I'm not going to enter the brisket bowl and go through elimination rounds with my slabs of meat.
Marc:But I do enjoy some smoked food sometimes.
Marc:And I've had that Traeger.
Marc:I used the fuck out of that Traeger, man.
Marc:I cook chickens in there.
Marc:I cook steaks in there.
Marc:I cook chickens and steaks in there.
Marc:Oh, and I smoke fish.
Marc:I use it all the time, though.
Marc:It's very easy to use.
Marc:You do it from your phone.
Marc:But this other smoker is like, I had to like learn, I had to season it and I had to learn how to situate the coals so it would cook all day.
Marc:I just, basically what happened is a couple of days after I seasoned the fucking thing, I just was like, I'm going to buy a brisket.
Marc:I live alone, man.
Marc:And I went, I was at Whole Foods.
Marc:I'm like, you got any briskets back there?
Marc:Because there was none in the case.
Marc:And she pulled out a whole brisket with the flat and the point.
Marc:You know, it was about probably 20 pounds of meat.
Marc:And I bought the whole goddamn thing.
Marc:So now I'm stuck with it.
Marc:I got like 20 pounds of meat.
Marc:And I'm like, all right.
Marc:So I just spent all this money to learn how to do this.
Marc:So I just did it.
Marc:I did a little research.
Marc:I rubbed it down like Franklin does, like Aaron Franklin does, just salt and pepper.
Marc:I let it be rubbed down overnight.
Marc:Then I took it out, got it down to room temperature, figured out how to light the coals so it would go for 10 hours.
Marc:And then I just stayed on top of that shit.
Marc:I sprayed it.
Marc:I got a new thermometer that will register the inside of the smoker and also the inside of the meat.
Marc:And I just watched that fucker.
Marc:It smoked out in like eight and a half hours, though.
Marc:Like I wrapped it at six because Aaron said so.
Marc:Aaron is a genius.
Marc:So I wrapped it in the wax free butcher paper at six.
Marc:And you just got to stay on top of that.
Marc:So because you got to work those dampers.
Marc:The air intake to control the temp.
Marc:The slow smoke.
Marc:Got to be on top of it.
Marc:I mean, I sat there and watched it for longer than probably necessary.
Marc:And then when I took it out, I thought, like, nah, it looks a little burnt.
Marc:It looks a little dark.
Marc:But god damn!
Marc:That was some world-class meat.
Marc:I invited my buddy Dan and his wife Jen over at Spontaneously, and Kit was here.
Marc:And they came, and I'm like, I don't know what it's going to be like, but there's got to be some great meat in there.
Marc:From the outside, I can't tell.
Marc:And we cut that open.
Marc:It was so...
Marc:moist and perfect and professional seeming.
Marc:It was so fucking good.
Marc:I don't know if I can do it twice, but now I'm sort of like, I still got the other half, but there's not enough fat on the, on the, um, flat to really do it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's more of a, that's more of a juice style brisket event.
Marc:That's a, you know, oven and, uh, you know, liquid brisket.
Marc:That's a Jew brisket style, not smoker, non Jew brisket style.
So,
Marc:Anyways, I just wanted to let you know that...
Marc:I was proud of myself a couple times this week, this last week.
Marc:I'm very proud about the interview with Tony Kushner that you heard on Monday.
Marc:And I was proud of this slab of meat.
Marc:And I can feel it.
Marc:I can feel the fat coursing through my heart right now.
Marc:It was a big fat week.
Marc:A couple of big fatty meals.
Marc:And I made a chest pie.
Marc:That was for Kit's birthday.
Marc:It was belated.
Marc:And I'd just gotten down to my fighting weight.
Marc:But, hey, I think hopefully those statins are working.
Marc:Hopefully the statins will hold.
Marc:They'll hold.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So Sam Richardson, nice guy, interesting backstory that involves another country, which is always nice to talk about.
Marc:The first three episodes of The After Party are now streaming on Apple TV+.
Marc:New episodes premiere on Fridays.
Marc:And this is me talking to Sam.
Marc:Yeah, I guess being a vet would be kind of brutal.
Guest:Because every day, you're just sort of like, it's time.
Guest:You're seeing animals at their worst.
Guest:When people are the scaredest, nobody's bringing their pet in because they're gay.
Marc:And they can't talk to fucking animals.
Marc:And, you know, it's just like... And everyone wants answers.
Marc:I started crying in front of this vet the other day.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't expect to.
Guest:Yeah, because, I mean, it's also like your relationship with your pet is like not with anything... Because it's...
Guest:It's an unconditional love thing.
Marc:You don't even really know how deep it is until that shit.
Marc:But I just was not ready to be in hospice again.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Because I had two cats go, and I just didn't want to have to deal with a dying cat for another two or three.
Marc:Because once they start going, that could go on for a while.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:And then that's your life, figuring out how to get the idiot to eat pills.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:We pill Gus every morning.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, the old guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The old guy does.
Guest:The new one's name is Conan.
Guest:He adopted us.
Guest:So he lived outside, and we put a little thing out for him on the porch upstairs.
Guest:So we just lived outside, so he came in.
Guest:And so now he's running around.
Guest:So it's also about maintaining that he doesn't eat Gus's food.
Guest:Oh, no, yeah.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because is it medicine food?
Guest:It's medicine food for his kidneys.
Guest:Yeah, I have that.
Guest:Yeah, I do that.
Guest:Kidney food.
Marc:Kidney food.
Marc:How bad are the kidneys?
Marc:Is he drinking a lot of water?
Marc:He's drinking a lot of water, yeah.
Guest:And then, you know, a puke every here and there.
Guest:It's the worst.
Guest:The kidney, like, yeah.
Marc:Is she going to do the fluids?
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think we're trying to avoid that.
Guest:But he's on like this like steroid, which is like he was skinny, but now he's gained a lot of weight.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Good weight, I think.
Guest:Unless it's like another thing for like unless it's like a tight gut, then it's another problem.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But you're all right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Because he sleeps in the bed every morning and he slaps me awake every morning.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I have my check-in time with him every day.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:All right.
Marc:As long as that keeps on happening.
Marc:And that cat you've known for a while.
Marc:I've known that cat for a while.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, oh, yes, you did a movie with a woman I was married to.
Marc:Oh, yes.
Marc:Werewolves Within.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And who hates when I talk about her.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:And hates me.
Marc:But your experience with her was okay.
Marc:It was nice.
Guest:It was nice.
Guest:I'm sure different context for me.
Marc:No, but you were a producer on that as well?
Marc:I was, yeah.
Marc:And the star of it is based on a video game?
Guest:Based on a video game adapted by your ex-wife into a screenplay, and then you made that.
Guest:And we filmed it, and we filmed that in February of 2020.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so we wrapped it, and then everything shut down as soon as we wrapped.
Marc:Like the next month?
Marc:Like the next week.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did anyone have COVID on there?
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, not that we knew, because if they did, it was like, oh, it's a cold or a flu.
Guest:So it was before it restarted.
Guest:In fact, like in a zombie movie, I'd have the TV on the back and they'd be like, oh, talking about this big flu pandemic.
Guest:I'm like, okay, you know.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Like, oh, eight cases in America.
Guest:Yeah, wait, what?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So then it was in the can for how long before?
Guest:So then we're just able to edit it while it was shut down.
Guest:And you were part of the whole process?
Guest:Yeah, but not directly, not in the editing room.
Guest:There's a lot of funny people in there.
Guest:Michaela's in there.
Guest:Michaela's in it.
Guest:She's so funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, George Basil.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's so funny.
Guest:Everybody in that movie is just so funny.
Guest:Harvey Guillen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fun, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But so it got one week in the theaters.
Guest:Got a week in theaters.
Guest:When no one was going.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And then it ended up where?
Guest:VOD.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So I think it just hit Canada Netflix.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, it just hit UK Netflix.
Guest:Oh, that's exciting.
Guest:So, you know, hopefully.
Guest:Was it on American Netflix?
Guest:Nope.
Guest:Not yet?
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:So rental, you can rent it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How does that work, though?
Guest:Are you hip to how it works now that you're a producer?
Guest:Not entirely, even still.
Guest:Because I'm like, hey, can you shoot me an email and let me know what's going on?
Guest:And it's like, yeah, here.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't know.
Guest:Well, you've done enough shit to where you have things out there.
Marc:You're like, can you still get that?
Marc:Yeah, truly.
Marc:When people are like, where can I see that movie?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm like, I'm not sure, truly.
Guest:I'm like, eh?
Guest:I don't know if you can.
Yeah.
Guest:It's so weird, man.
Guest:It was a moment in time.
Guest:You had to be there when.
Marc:You can pretty much go like, well, I think you can get it on iTunes.
Guest:That's what I say.
Guest:That's what I say every time.
Marc:You might just pay $3, but you can get it.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:So I watched an episode or two, episode and a half of the new thing.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:The after party.
Marc:So this is one of those things.
Marc:It's like one of those murder mystery things where you got a bunch of people and somebody did something or maybe they all did it or maybe no one did it.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And you got to figure out who.
Guest:We call it a locked door mystery.
Guest:Is that what it's called?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, what happens to me when I watch shows after about 20 minutes, I'm like, I've got the patience.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That kind of relies on a little bit of patience.
Marc:Well, I think what it is, it's like people like the form.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:They like the genre.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So they're just waiting to see what you do with it.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And that's a big part of this one is it's all about genre because each episode is a different genre of film.
Marc:Right, because Tiffany's characters are like, tell me your mental movie.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:What's your movie inside or whatever?
Guest:Yeah, what's your mental movie?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And yours is sort of like a romance?
Marc:A rom-com.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:Oh, so everyone has a different mental movie.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:So the idea is everybody's got a different perspective, but even that perspective is then put through how they view the world.
Guest:Well, that's probably true.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:Right?
Guest:But you know who did it.
Guest:Yeah, I know who did it.
Guest:Because I've seen the show.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I didn't want to spoil it for anybody.
Marc:That's why they just gave me the screeners yesterday.
Marc:There's only so much I could do.
Marc:But you seem funny in it, and Tiffany's funny.
Marc:Tiffany's always pretty fucking good.
Guest:She's always so good.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't think she's ever going to do my show.
Marc:No?
Marc:No.
Marc:Because I didn't really know her as a comic coming up.
Marc:I remember seeing her at the comedy store sometimes.
Marc:She's like, Marc Maron, I'm going to do your show someday.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't know you.
Marc:I think that was my attitude.
Marc:I'm like, okay.
Marc:And now she's the biggest star in the world.
Marc:And I think she's like, Marc Maron, I'm not going to do your show.
Guest:The other foot, as they call it.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:So how long have you lived here?
Guest:It'll be 10 years, February 1st.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And where'd you live before that?
Guest:Before here, I lived in Chicago.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:For four years.
Guest:No New York time?
Guest:No New York time.
Guest:Chicago.
Guest:Chicago.
Guest:And then before that?
Guest:Detroit.
Guest:And that was the whole- That's where I'm from, Detroit.
Guest:The whole first part?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Part one, Detroit.
Guest:And Ghana.
Guest:My mom's from Ghana, so I grew up going between- What does that mean food-wise?
Guest:So Ghanaian food is a lot of stews and soups.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's what you grew up with?
Guest:Fish?
Guest:A lot of that.
Guest:Some fish, yeah, like fried fish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And your mom is a good cook?
Guest:My mom's a good cook with Ghanaian food.
Guest:That's what I mean, yeah.
Guest:But nothing else.
Guest:Talking about like burnt to a crisp steaks.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:You know, burnt to a crisp chicken.
Guest:Doesn't have a sense, but fried fish.
Guest:Fried fish, like a fried fish.
Guest:Soups and stews.
Guest:Soups and stews, perfect.
Guest:Jell-off rice, outstanding.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:Jell-off rice is like a sort of like a sauce ... How do I describe jell-off rice?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's like a spiced saucy rice.
Guest:Jell-off rice exists in Ghana and Nigeria, and there's a big rivalry between who has the best sauce.
Marc:one that's better than some sort of horrendous tribal war yes yeah i think that's that's that's what it kind of boiled down to in the end of it the big rice competition is much better than any of the other options exactly i think it's kind of interesting and i don't know why i'm asking you about food necessarily but like i love it i i well i brought up indian food with mindy kelling once that was one of the worst interviews i ever did
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, because there's some part of it like when you're just being generalizing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, like it'd be different if I was like, so what do black people eat?
Guest:What black people eat?
Guest:What kind of black eyed peas do you eat?
Guest:Is it black eyed peas because black?
Marc:So I think with Mindy, I was sort of like, you must like those breads, you know?
Marc:And it was very specific because she's Indian, but I don't know.
Guest:We all fuck up.
Guest:It's true.
Guest:But I mean, I think I would have some sort of, at least a slight expertise when it comes to Ghanaian food.
Marc:Well, yeah, but did you spend time there?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I spent, I used to go back and forth.
Guest:Because you have grandparents there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In fact, I lived there.
Guest:Well, my grandmother on my mom's side died two years before I was born.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:My grandfather died when I was about six, and so I lived there when I was six and seven, because he was a chief, he was a Ghanaian chief, so he had a big funeral event, like a huge- A chief?
Guest:A chief, yeah.
Guest:Like a tribal chief?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:So you come from a long line?
Guest:That kind of thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like your family were chiefs.
Guest:My family was chief.
Guest:It's matrilineal.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So my uncle would be the chief now, and it could be me or my cousins.
Guest:Are you going to step up?
Guest:I don't speak the language.
Guest:I truly don't.
Guest:Well, there's your next movie.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Have you pitched it?
Guest:I've been working on it.
Guest:You have, haven't you?
Guest:I mean, every day I'm like, what should I do?
Guest:I'm like, hmm.
Guest:I'll figure it out.
Guest:And then as I get older, it's like less.
Guest:It'd be like the reverse of coming to America.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Going to Africa.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know?
Marc:That could be funny.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:Right?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:But you theoretically could be cheap, but your cousin lives there?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My cousins, I'm also the youngest of my cousins.
Guest:So you have to kill them.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And it's a lot of responsibility, and I'm like, I'd rather do my stuff.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:But what is it like there?
Marc:I mean, I don't know anything about anything.
Marc:Well, it's.
Guest:Is there big cities?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Accra.
Guest:So I'm from Ghana.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Accra, Ghana is like a very industrialized.
Guest:Right.
Guest:West African city.
Guest:So like the whole thing freeways.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now I went there a few years ago with Conan O'Brien because he did Conan abroad.
Guest:And so I hadn't been in like maybe about 14 years before that.
Marc:Were you his reason to go?
Guest:Yeah, because they were doing a come back to Ghana kind of thing, and then they invited him.
Guest:And then him knowing me and him knowing that I'm from Ghana, he brought me with him.
Guest:So I went and I was kind of like his guide for some of these things.
Guest:But you don't speak the language.
Guest:I don't speak the language.
Guest:You didn't help.
Guest:I sure didn't.
Guest:I really didn't.
Guest:I've always had the ear for it, so I can understand it, but I can't speak it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Un fatui.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's the base of the language?
Marc:You don't know.
Guest:Tribal African.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:It's not like there's no French to it or anything like that?
Guest:No.
Guest:It was an English colony.
Marc:Oh, was it?
Guest:So everybody speaks English.
Guest:English is a national language.
Guest:And there's so many tribal languages in Ghana.
Guest:isn't like a made form from Africa.
Guest:It was like the Europeans came and said, all right, well, this is Ghana.
Guest:Oh, it sectioned it.
Guest:And so like whatever tribes within it, like guess what?
Guest:You're all Ghanaians.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Oh, well, no, we're Fanti and we're Akan.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So all of a sudden they're all part of this.
Marc:Are there difficulties amongst them?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You're not a historian.
Marc:I sure am not.
Marc:You're not from the Ghana tourist industry.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Is it safe there?
Guest:Very safe there.
Guest:Let me look at my talking points here.
Guest:i have a book for you it's a pamphlet visit ghana but you're uh but does your mom go back there all the time she's she's there maybe half the year oh really so she's there all the time your parents aren't together oh they are but they're just like always just that's the way they do it that's how that's how it's always your dad's a detroit guy my dad's a detroit guy all the way back
Guest:All the way there.
Guest:Been there for a while?
Guest:Born in Detroit, March 8th, 1945.
Guest:What do they do?
Guest:So my dad was a restaurateur.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was...
Guest:He was at Michigan State for hotel and restaurant management and then got into restaurants and hotels and sort of the service industry.
Guest:But then he started doing tours.
Guest:So he would do tours to... He had a company called Lifestyle Tours.
Guest:He would take people from the States and travel all over Ghana with them or all over Africa.
Guest:So it's Ghana-based.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's kind of gotten based.
Marc:Your mom and dad are in on it.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:That's why she's down there six months waiting for him to bring some suckers down there.
Guest:But they haven't done it in so long.
Guest:I think they retired from that maybe 20 years ago.
Guest:Did it work?
Guest:It worked.
Guest:That sort of thing kind of gets- It's a hell of a trip, right?
Guest:It's a hell of a trip.
Marc:And it's really a beautiful trip.
Marc:So your dad had restaurants too?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They had a Ghanaian restaurant in Detroit called Jinyan Mi House.
Guest:Was it popular?
Guest:Not incredibly.
Guest:Restaurants are hard business to deal with.
Guest:People who knew it loved it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it wasn't gangbusters.
Guest:No franchises.
Guest:No franchises as of yet.
Marc:So you grew up in the restaurant business, kind of?
Guest:You know, yeah, adjacent.
Guest:Go to your dad's restaurant?
Guest:Yeah, I go to my dad's.
Guest:We had an apartment upstairs from it.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Marc:So you're really, you're just right downstairs.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You go eat breakfast in the kitchen at the restaurant.
Guest:Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Guest:Your mom cooked at the restaurant?
Guest:She cooked in a restaurant.
Guest:She taught everybody how to make the things.
Guest:It was all Ghanaian food.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:It is.
Guest:I really, I really, I enjoyed those times.
Guest:I mean, I was very young.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, you know, it was like, the three things in my life were like, that restaurant.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got a Nintendo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So like, it was all about Super Mario Brothers.
Guest:And then like, you know, Simpsons or like TV.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:That was it.
Marc:The restaurant, Nintendo, and Simpsons.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That was your life.
Guest:Do you have brothers or sisters?
Guest:I have half brothers and sisters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So my dad had children before me.
Guest:So I'm separated by at least 14 years.
Guest:What?
Guest:You know, yeah.
Guest:Was he an old guy?
Guest:My dad is now 70... He's not that old.
Guest:77?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, you know.
Marc:But you've got these brothers and half brothers and sisters that are 15 years older than you?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Do you know them?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I don't... I mean, like, we're not...
Guest:We're not super, super, super close, but they're my siblings.
Guest:I love them very much.
Guest:I'm closest with my oldest brother, who is about 21 years older than me.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's he do?
Guest:So he's got his doctorate in vermil toxicology.
Guest:He has a master's degree.
Guest:So he works for public health in Seattle.
Guest:Vermil toxicology?
Guest:Vermil toxicology.
Guest:Vermil toxicology.
Guest:Shit, poison you get from bugs.
Guest:From bugs and rats and that sort of thing.
Guest:So he works for, that's what his doctorate was in.
Guest:Holy shit, what a weird focus.
Guest:And he was right there smack dab, because Ground Zero, where the biggest spread happened of COVID, was there.
Guest:So he was sitting there watching it and knowing what was coming and what was going on.
Marc:Really?
Marc:You know?
Marc:So he knows a little bit about the epidemic mathematics?
Guest:He truly does.
Guest:Shit.
Marc:Was he calling you?
Marc:Did he say, like, dude?
Guest:He'd be like, heads up.
Guest:Get this.
Guest:Get that.
Guest:Do this.
Guest:This is coming.
Guest:And this is coming.
Guest:And this is coming.
Guest:And everybody's like, whatever.
Guest:He's like, trust me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But generally, he deals with rats?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think he did that a while ago.
Guest:He was a professional student for the longest time.
Guest:So he's got his MBA.
Marc:That word.
Guest:I didn't even know that word.
Guest:I didn't either.
Guest:Verminal.
Guest:Verminal.
Guest:Verminal toxicology.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow, those books.
Guest:I know.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Plague.
Guest:Plague, exactly.
Marc:But no full brother and sister.
Guest:No full brother and sister.
Guest:So you're like the special kid.
Guest:Exactly, exactly.
Guest:They call my mom one baby mother.
Guest:That doesn't sound like a good thing.
Guest:Yeah, well, it's because she doted on me a lot.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So, you know, the African mothers, like that, like a bunch of, you know, things that they were like doing all this stuff.
Guest:But, like, my mom was like, oh, this is Sam.
Guest:We've got a. Sam.
Guest:She's like, oh, one baby mother.
Guest:He's going to be fine.
Guest:But I'm like, hey.
Marc:Yeah, he seemed well adjusted.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:So what drew you to, because I didn't know who you were until I saw Veep, and then I was like, who's that guy?
Guest:And now it's more like, there's that guy again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you look at every movie, I'm in there in some way.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:There's Sam.
Guest:That guy's doing everything.
Marc:He was there for like a minute, am I right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But where'd you start doing that stuff?
Guest:So I started in high school, like, you know, high school theater, but then there was a second city in Detroit.
Marc:What happened?
Marc:Did you see Detroit fall apart?
Marc:I mean, like, are you in the suburbs?
Guest:No, I lived in the city proper, you know.
Guest:But, like, Detroit's sort of decline happened, like, in the 60s, you know.
Marc:Yeah, but, like, dude, I mean, I was there, like, it collapsed.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:like a second collapse yeah like for real like i remember going there not i went there a couple years ago and it was like they're like it's coming back i'm like is it though well it really it truly is but like i somebody said and i think it's true like detroit is usually like a pretty good but the word barometer yeah for like what's going to happen to the rest of the country in like maybe about five years that's that's not great you
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So like Detroit saw like a real economic downturn and then we all saw one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But like now because of like Detroit, there's so much space there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so much land and like the prices of everything had just dipped so low.
Guest:Did you buy a house for a nickel?
Guest:I didn't buy a house for a nickel, but I bought my parents.
Guest:I have my parents' condo, and then I'm always trying to see what the right thing is.
Guest:But now the prices are going back up.
Guest:But when they were at their lowest, I didn't have the money to buy-
Marc:It just seemed like it was one of those things where, should I buy nine houses in Detroit just to have?
Marc:But then you got property tax and you got to make sure you got to get the verminologist in.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Let her know.
Guest:How many rats?
Guest:Are the rats helpful?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I worked there, though, but it seemed like there's things happening in downtown, but none of them seem almost experimental.
Guest:Well, yes, and I feel like it was a place where you could try a business or try whatever and fail, but the risks weren't too high.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But I think some of those things did stick, and with Quicken Loans making essentially headquarters downtown Detroit- Well, that guy owns the whole fucking city, right?
Guest:He owns the city, exactly, essentially.
Guest:What's his name?
Guest:Steve somebody?
Marc:Dave.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It happens to me all the time.
Marc:I couldn't remember Lindsay Lohan.
Marc:I'll never forget her name.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:The Quicken's guy.
Guest:The Quicken's guy.
Guest:But he owns the whole city.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he owns the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Marc:So what's he going to do with the whole city?
Guest:Very good question.
Marc:We got to see.
Marc:We got to see.
Marc:I did a show at the Masonic Hall.
Marc:Masonic Temple?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That place is nuts.
Guest:It's nuts.
Guest:I graduated in there.
Guest:Really?
Guest:That's where I had my high school graduation.
Guest:The haunted shithole, that thing.
Guest:It's pretty incredible.
Guest:There's so many hidden things.
Guest:There's two theaters there.
Guest:Two full theaters there.
Marc:I played in the one little, the smaller one, but it's not by much.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's more cavernous.
Marc:There's almost like a circular-ish theater, which is probably where you graduated.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:And then there's like a standard structure theater.
Marc:But I didn't mean to call it a shithole.
Marc:It definitely felt like a haunted place.
Guest:Well, there's definitely like spirits and stuff running around there.
Guest:There's like...
Guest:In hats.
Guest:In hats.
Guest:And they've got, like, costumes and stuff.
Guest:We are, for our first season, I did a show called Detroiters in Detroit.
Guest:With that Tim Robinson.
Guest:With Tim Robinson.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And of the second season, was it the second season or the first season?
Guest:No, the first, sorry, the first season, our production office was in the Metonic Temple as well.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And we shot in there.
Guest:So there's an episode called Happy Birthday, uh,
Guest:Mr. Duvet, and that we filmed all that in the Masonic Temple also.
Guest:Really?
Guest:So we just spent so much time in there, and there's so many doors that then lead to a hallway that's hidden and stuff.
Guest:It's huge.
Marc:It's huge.
Marc:And I just remember...
Marc:Being down there and that whole area, it just seems kind of desolate in a way.
Marc:And there's just these random buildings that are like, oh, that's a new restaurant right there.
Marc:And then we went to some food hall nearby and it was sort of like, it's kind of a food hall.
Marc:I just remember I had a pad thai burrito, which was a little much.
Marc:I think if I know where that is.
Marc:Well, it's like, it doesn't, like, everything seems like they just, everything seems like a pop-up business.
Guest:Well, right.
Guest:Because I think everybody's just going to give it their best shot.
Guest:And, like, there's a lot of ingenuity and, like, a lot of people in Detroit are like, all right, well, I think I can make this work.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know, and they try.
Guest:And, like, of course, it's hard when you don't have, like, a lot of foot traffic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To, like, have, like, a walk-up business.
Guest:You got to draw people back to a place that they may think is dangerous.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, like, the, so what...
Guest:I hope helps and isn't just another sort of displacement thing.
Guest:These stadiums go in there, and then the idea is they bring people there, but the idea is how do you bring people there and not have them leave again?
Guest:And also, who then comes there?
Guest:Is there not a room for the people who... Can the people who live in that city not have a city for themselves?
Guest:Are you waiting for somebody to...
Guest:come from outside of it.
Guest:It's hard to know.
Guest:It's hard to know.
Marc:Like, yeah, Cleveland's sort of like that, but Cleveland kind of built a little area down by the stadium.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That Third Street or whatever, where, you know, the restaurants and stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know what's going on since COVID, though.
Marc:So they had Second City and Detroit.
Guest:So, yeah, Second City and Detroit.
Guest:I started taking classes there when I was in high school.
Guest:So I was like 15 when I started taking classes.
Guest:Who was that?
Marc:Like anybody we know in those classes?
Guest:Not in those classes, but...
Guest:But what was it like?
Guest:They actually had a theater there, too?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:There's a full theater.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:That's where Keegan-Michael Key came out of that theater.
Guest:Out of the Detroit Second City.
Guest:So there's that guy.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Larry Joe Campbell came out of that theater.
Guest:Mark Evan Jackson.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Naima Funk, Josh Funk.
Guest:I don't know that guy.
Guest:They were all like Detroit Second City folks.
Guest:And they all in show business now?
Guest:They're all in show business now.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:Yep, yep.
Guest:So you did that in high school?
Guest:So I started there in high school and then kind of like worked my way up.
Guest:So I started taking classes there in high school and then worked my way up to like understudying.
Guest:But you did like regular theater in high school?
Guest:I did.
Marc:And then you're like, you're going to be the funny guy?
Guest:Then I kind of found that there.
Guest:I just always loved comedy and comedy movies.
Marc:You've never done serious?
Marc:I feel like you could do serious.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:You haven't done it though?
Guest:I haven't done it.
Guest:I'm always like, not worried, but I always want to make sure I don't make that transition just out of ego.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Where someone's like, take me seriously.
Marc:Or you try it once and they're like, wow, he's much better at this than we thought.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:No more.
Guest:funny for you exactly how about you just be the guy crying yeah yeah so who were the teachers though like they come from Chicago no they were Detroit people in fact when I so I was in classes when I was 15 kind of left and came back and then I was in classes when I was maybe 17 and Tim Robinson was my my level a teacher at Second City
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:That guy's kind of new to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A lot of people know him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I watched his show, I guess, the last year for the first time.
Marc:And I'm like, who the fuck is this guy?
Marc:My producer loves him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's some sort of backstory on him.
Marc:But I don't know what it is.
Marc:I guess he was almost on SNL.
Guest:He was on SNL for a season.
Guest:And then he then wrote on SNL for like four seasons after that.
Guest:Oh, so he was there a long time.
Guest:Yeah, he was there for a bit and then moved out here.
Guest:Because he couldn't get screen time?
Guest:I think it just was a weird fit.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Well, he's a weird fit in reality.
Guest:He's just a unique guy.
Guest:He's very specific.
Guest:So where'd you meet him?
Guest:He was your teacher?
Guest:Yeah, we met at Second City.
Guest:He was my level A teacher.
Guest:What was that with level A?
Guest:It's like the first class of Second City, but then the adult class.
Guest:I did a high school class and then I did the adult classes.
Marc:So he was living in Detroit teaching at Second City.
Guest:Tim Robinson.
Marc:And he's from Detroit.
Marc:So we're all from Detroit.
Guest:Oh, all right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, because he has a certain sensibility.
Marc:What are you learning from that guy?
Guest:Well, so you're doing improv and sort of like the sort of rules of improv and then like how to perform it.
Marc:Is he a normal person?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He's the most normal person.
Guest:But just like a very strong comic sensibility and like very specific.
Guest:So that's a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:He's not really a nut job.
Guest:No, he's not a nut job.
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:Not at all.
Guest:I mean, we're all nut jobs.
Guest:I guess.
Marc:But there's a world where there's people that do sketch, and then there's people that do some other thing that's one step beyond it into kind of creating an entire time zone for themselves.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right, like Tim and Eric.
Guest:Like Tim and Eric.
Marc:Or Eric Andre.
Marc:And Tim seems to be one of those guys.
Guest:Well, yeah, because I think we get bored of the form of just sketch.
Guest:Like, you know, here's a setup, here's the payoff.
Marc:Or, yeah, here's a setup, and then we lose control of it by the end.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:It doesn't land.
Guest:It doesn't land.
Guest:Because by now, we all know how sketch works.
Guest:So in the audience, you're watching, you're like, well, here's my friend.
Guest:He's a little crazy.
Guest:And he comes in, he's got a hat on.
Guest:It's like, oh, the hat is going to be the joke.
Marc:Sometimes I don't understand it because I think I'm expecting closure.
Marc:And so much of sketch, certainly modern sketch, relies on premise.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And a repetition of things.
Guest:And repetition of premise, which also, I feel, comes from improv.
Guest:Because with improv, you need your premise.
Guest:That's all, because you don't know where the end is.
Guest:Right, and then people get louder.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You get louder and more physical, and then somebody sweeps, and then you're in the next thing.
Guest:So with sketch, I feel it needs to not just be a direct overlay of that.
Guest:You have to...
Guest:Keep on breaking the that's what Tim does I think and I think you should leave is like you know you think you're going one way and then you you turn left and now you're in a completely different thing that's like based on that small thing and then now you're here and so you've made five left turns before you realize it and then the closure happens at the end or doesn't happen but you've gone on this journey and you're on to the next thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also there's just this, this element of like my, my friend or my producer, Brendan thinks that they're, you know, in an analysis of it is that he was sort of this perfect kind of comedic antidote to, uh, to Trumpism because, you know, the comedy is a guy that forces everyone around him to accept his reality.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:And he, so like the premise of, of most of these sketches is a person, uh, makes a mistake, uh,
Guest:refuses to admit it, and then doubles down on that refusal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's the structure.
Guest:That's the structure.
Guest:A very fragile person makes a mistake, a public mistake.
Guest:Instead of apologizing or admitting it, he then tries to act like it didn't happen.
Marc:Everyone knows that in the writer's room.
Guest:You know, yeah, I mean, I think that's what's the funniest thing is a person who just can't admit they're wrong.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know, so I think that's- He came up with that?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That's his character?
Guest:That's his character.
Guest:I think that's what he does, like, the best, you know, is these, like, these fragile egoed people.
Guest:Lying guys.
Marc:These lying guys, you know.
Marc:But when you met him, he was just a teacher-
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then we did a bunch of shows at Second City and at this theater called the Planet Ant Theater.
Guest:In Detroit.
Guest:In Detroit, yeah.
Guest:You and him did?
Guest:Uh-huh, yeah.
Guest:Just the two of you?
Guest:Two of us, and then sometimes we would do shows with our friend like Sauron Choksi and Brett Ganell and all these people like...
Guest:Out of our Detroit folks, Tim and I are the ones who've come out here and kind of made it the most.
Guest:But you went to Chicago first?
Guest:I went to Chicago first, and we both ended up in Chicago at the same time, but different paths.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But both Second City.
Guest:I worked on a cruise ship for Second City.
Guest:Oh, you were a cruise guy?
Guest:I did a cruise for ... I did two contracts, both five months long.
Guest:Holy shit, man.
Marc:This is a world of show business that I don't get, man.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:I know there's entertainment on cruises, but then there are those people that do the bus.
Marc:They get on the bus and they do all the national touring.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Sudeikis did that, right?
Guest:And then both of us did the touring company as well.
Guest:You and Robinson?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:There's three touring companies in Second City in Chicago.
Guest:Who's making all that money?
Guest:Second City.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And they're giving you...
Guest:They're giving you some money, but they are.
Marc:They're giving you opportunity.
Guest:They're giving you opportunity.
Guest:To grow as a performer.
Guest:Learn how to be a performer.
Guest:And then you get to go all these places.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, hey.
Guest:But you did, I guess, right?
Guest:I truly did.
Guest:I learned so much.
Guest:So you're on the boat with Tim Robinson?
Guest:No.
Guest:So I did a boat.
Guest:They did two different contracts on a boat.
Guest:And Tim then went to Chicago to join the touring company.
Guest:So wait, the boat, like it's an improv crew?
Guest:So you're doing like best of sketch.
Guest:So Best of Second City Archives for one show, which is like- Wait, from way back?
Guest:From as far back as like- You just kind of go into the library and you have a- It's a director who then kind of takes all the stuff, goes to the archives and makes a show based on whoever's cast is.
Marc:No shit.
Marc:So you could be doing stuff that Brian Doyle Murray did?
Guest:I mean, truly, yeah.
Guest:I would do Chris Farley stuff.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I would do, yeah, just deep in the- But those were not- So all that stuff was scripted?
Marc:A lot of that stuff is on paper?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So a second CD show is a scripted 90-minute show with scripted sketches and then most times windows of improv.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And so then all those sketches, the show will have a name because it's got a director and sometimes a through line narrative or whatever.
Guest:And then all those scenes then go into the archive.
Guest:And if you're an aficionado, you'd know, oh, that scene is from doors open on the left.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Truly.
Guest:Second city nerd.
Guest:Second city nerd.
Guest:And you know, like so many people.
Guest:So that's how it works.
Marc:So they have ownership of all that stuff.
Guest:So they own it all.
Guest:And then they just send you guys out.
Guest:And then you're just doing that stuff.
Guest:How many people in the crew?
Guest:So there were five of us and then a music director is a person who plays piano like to accompany us.
Guest:And it still goes on.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Yeah, I have no idea.
Guest:But that's the racket, huh?
Guest:It really is.
Marc:Just get all these youngsters on the road.
Guest:And just catch them and they were like, what else are you going to do?
Guest:And for me, I was making the most money I'd ever made.
Guest:I was making at that time, I think it was like $900 a week.
Guest:And I was like, whoa!
Guest:I had no expenses.
Guest:So the first contract, I was living like I was on vacation.
Guest:I'm going to Barbados.
Guest:Yeah, but then you see the people that saw you.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:So every week, it would be a different, a reset.
Guest:So Sunday, the people would get on the ship, you know, kind of like meander their way through, make their way.
Guest:Monday, everybody was like kind of seasick.
Guest:So as a crew, we would kind of like just go and like enjoy the ship.
Guest:Tuesday, people would kind of like get their sea legs and start doing that.
Guest:And then Wednesday had our show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And at that point, everybody on the ship knew you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then, so then from Wednesday you go, you drink in the crew bar downstairs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's like dollar beers and all that.
Guest:But then also you'd get like, uh, also you, everybody's buying you drinks.
Guest:Oh, you're the one that did that thing.
Guest:So, you know, you can do that for a certain amount of time.
Guest:Then you like are overwhelmed and then it all starts over again Sunday.
Guest:So it's a new, Oh, so it's a week long.
Marc:It's a week long thing.
Marc:So you didn't have to do two or three shows.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So you would do the written show.
Guest:Or you have a bad show and you're kind of like, hey.
Guest:You're like, yeah.
Guest:And you're like, oh, okay.
Guest:Where's your friend?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you do the written show and then the end of the week you do the improv show where you're just like improvising games and stuff.
Guest:Oh, so that's the way it works.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you did the bus thing too.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And then did you end up teaching?
Guest:I taught in Detroit and then I taught, I didn't teach in Chicago because I was like, I was on touring companies on the main stage.
Marc:So you and Tim do the shows in Detroit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then like when you're in Chicago, he's doing, what's he doing?
Guest:So he came to Chicago.
Guest:He went to Chicago to do the touring companies.
Guest:He went there for a touring company.
Guest:I was on the ships.
Guest:And then they hired me from the ships to do a touring company as well.
Guest:So then we're on different touring companies.
Guest:Yeah, so he's out in the bus.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:The bus.
Guest:We'd fly places.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:So when did you... You guys remain friends, right?
Guest:Best friends.
Guest:Tim is my best friend, too.
Guest:Like little kids, we're best friends.
Marc:Right, so why...
Guest:When does he get SNL?
Guest:He got SNL when he, so he left the Chicago main stage and I left the Chicago main stage maybe like six months later.
Guest:I moved to LA and then he, so he was still in Chicago and then he auditioned and then he got SNL and
Guest:So he got that.
Guest:I guess that would have been like 2013, 2012.
Guest:You didn't do SNL?
Guest:I didn't do SNL.
Guest:I auditioned.
Guest:I did like two screen tests.
Guest:So you got that far?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:You had the Lorne meeting?
Guest:No meeting directly with Lorne.
Guest:So I never did the show, but Lorne produced Detroiters.
Guest:He did?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, because Tim was part of the Broadway video team.
Guest:Exactly, exactly.
Marc:You auditioned but didn't get it around when he was on, when Tim was on?
Guest:No, it was before.
Guest:So I had gone to screen test while I was on the main stage of Chicago.
Guest:So that's why you went to LA.
Guest:Yeah, because I was like, I could stay at Second City and keep on trying to be there to audition for SNL because they would come to see the shows every year.
Guest:And I was like, well, the only reason I would do another show would be to have SNL see me and try and do that.
Guest:And I was like, I don't want this to be that.
Guest:I really enjoyed my time at Second City.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was like, let me just leave.
Guest:And also I had been doing sort of like sending tapes to L.A.
Guest:for like pilot season and stuff.
Guest:and i had an agent i had an agent because i got my agents and stuff from my first when i first went to do uh my snl okay uh thing because they're like once your name goes i was like these are people auditioning then everybody comes out like doing the bushes yeah yeah yeah you know so i'm doing tapes and i get them close but they're always like oh we hired somebody who lives on the street so so i was like all right time to move
Guest:When did you do Detroiters?
Guest:Were you out here already?
Guest:I was out here already, yeah.
Guest:Tim was living in New York, writing at SNL.
Guest:I was out here and doing shows.
Guest:That's when I was on... In fact, I wasn't even a cast member of Veep yet.
Guest:I was guesting on Veep, and I was doing stuff here and there.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we shot the pilot of that.
Guest:That would have been... Detroiters?
Guest:Detroiters, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:2000.
Guest:2014, I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Maybe 2015.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So we came together to like, you know, write that with Joe Kelly and Zach Cannon.
Guest:And so then we made that pilot.
Guest:And then like a year later, it got picked up to series.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You did 20?
Guest:Well, I did 20, two seasons, yeah.
Guest:That was good.
Guest:Yeah, I had a great time.
Guest:We wanted to do more, but such is life.
Marc:So you got cast on Veep how, just by doing a recurring?
Guest:So I was on Veep.
Guest:I was supposed to just do one episode.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then...
Guest:i think the character worked so well and we had so much fun they like wrote me into the very next episode and then they kept on like kind of like having me hang out in baltimore in baltimore and they're like maybe we're gonna put you in this episode and i was like i'm unemployed i'll come and hang out and stay at the four seasons as long as you want me to yeah yeah yeah and then like by the end they were like and then richard comes up and he's like hey i'm here i was like i was like oh something's up and then they asked me to join the cast the next season
Guest:That was great, right?
Guest:Yeah, that was terrific.
Guest:She's so funny.
Guest:She's so funny, and she's truly one of the most down-to-earth people.
Guest:It's shocking how chill and nice of a person she is.
Marc:She's very in control of her comedic craft.
Guest:Yes, sharp precision.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And she's so, like, all those choices, and she's just so fucking good at it.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Did you learn stuff from her?
Guest:So much.
Guest:Like, just, like, some of that precision and, like, those precise choices.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, watching how she does, like, takes and how she, like, you know, how she, like, analyzes in a rehearsal, the script, sort of, like, the rhythm of things.
Guest:I was like, oh, okay, interesting.
Guest:You mean physical stuff?
Guest:Like physical stuff and like even like pattern timing and like kind of how to like zhuzh and like talking over each.
Guest:Like there's so many things that I feel like even just watching it, you wouldn't realize how it's made unless you were doing it and like watching somebody do it.
Marc:There's got to be this, especially with her and what's his name?
Marc:Tony Hale.
Marc:Tony Hale is that dynamic, there's such a rhythm to it.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:You've got to figure it out.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:It doesn't just happen.
Guest:No, not to be pretentious about it, but it's very comedia, where you have these roles, and so they know how the relationship is, and they know what this person would say, and there's lots of these, so you know how Gary...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Knows what the thing is that she wants and what she says she wants.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, like, what to give her.
Guest:And then, like, she's going to, like, fight that first thing but really want that second thing.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's so interesting to see, like, the math of it.
Guest:But then it's made –
Marc:loose you know so like there's a heavy structure but then it's like but then there's like and everybody right but but they've got to work that stuff out like no one's going to direct them to because yeah because they just know it's like the script is everybody was kind of paired up who are you kind of i i became paired up with tim simon right yeah and like that that's sort of like it was sort of the charm of the thing there was like several different comedy teams working it all the time yeah yeah
Guest:And another great thing about, like, my character was, like, I got to, like, kind of, like, have dynamics with different, like, so I had my character, I had my dynamic with Tim.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which was, like, my main one.
Guest:But then I would also be with Reed, or Reed and Reed and Tim.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or Reed and Amy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That level of employee.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah, it was funny.
Marc:And I worked with Bokdal.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You know, yeah.
Marc:Dan.
Guest:Oh, you're Dan Bacadol.
Guest:Bacadol.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:His last name's always heard of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He's a Second City guy.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But he's like from the, he's like the angry version.
Marc:Like it seems like Second City, you got the goofy guys and you got the yellers.
Guest:Yeah, I mean that's, I'm talking about that's the recipe.
Guest:They've got a certain amount of slots for each of them.
Marc:Goofy guy, yelling guy.
Marc:And fat can go either way.
Guest:Fat can go either way, exactly.
Guest:And sometimes you get all three.
Guest:Chris Farley is a fat, yelling, goofy guy.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:And the real yelling guys go to Steppenwolf.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:That's Chicago.
Marc:That's how Chicago works.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:That's a nutshell.
Marc:So what starts to happen after Veep?
Marc:Did you get Emmys?
Guest:The show got Emmys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You didn't get one personally?
Guest:I didn't get one personally.
Marc:But then after Veep, you start just showing up in all these movies?
Guest:Yeah, just kind of popping up in these things.
Guest:Detroiters didn't go past Veep, and then I did a show called Champagne Ill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then just showing up in movies and keep on trying to do that.
Guest:What was Champagne Ill?
Guest:Champagne Ill.
Guest:Champagne Hill was a show I did with Adam Pally.
Guest:I know that guy.
Guest:It was on YouTube.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a funny duo.
Guest:I love him.
Guest:He is funny, yeah.
Guest:It was a show for YouTube TV.
Guest:Did you know him before?
Guest:I knew him kind of remotely.
Guest:I see him at a party.
Marc:Who are your generation of guys?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sudeikis?
Marc:He's a little older now.
Guest:Sudeikis is older.
Guest:So Sudeikis produced Detroiters.
Guest:So he was on SNL when we were on Second City.
Guest:And so he would come to Second City and we became friends that way.
Guest:He was like, oh, you guys are good.
Guest:And he did Ted Lasso as well.
Guest:I did Ted Lasso, yeah.
Guest:Because it was written by, Ted Lasso, so Jason, Joe Kelly, and Brendan Hunt, those are all my pals, Joe Kelly, co-creator of Detroiters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he's also co-creator of Ted Lasso.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And so, like, the character that I played, you know, it was Ghanaian billionaire because they were like, oh, we got to find something for Sam to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's that.
Guest:The character, I mean, like, one of my things that's so sweet to me, I'm happy, is, like, the character Sam Obasanja, like, named after me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was like, oh, that's sweet.
Guest:So they get to interact with that character.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And to get into going there was like a really fun thing.
Guest:It's nice when your friends take care of you.
Marc:It really is.
Marc:They find something for you to do.
Marc:You know?
Marc:They'll make something for this guy to do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But let's talk about you and Tim again.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Because I want to understand where this fucking comedy comes from.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Like I like I'm not I'm just a stand up guy.
Marc:I'm not really.
Marc:I don't understand the evolution of sketch, even though we talked about it to some degree.
Marc:But it does seem like, you know, like whatever SNL is doing is what SNL is doing.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I think SNL is its own kind of sketch.
Guest:But it's old school already.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Marc:But then whatever Tim and Eric were doing, who the fuck knows what that is?
Marc:But it happens on a lot of levels.
Marc:It's cinematic.
Marc:It's comedic.
Marc:There's some... They create a... A whole universe.
Marc:Yeah, of different textures.
Marc:But it just seems like that Tim and you...
Marc:do something that does create that different time zone.
Marc:Like there's that, the one sketch where you are, you're a host.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Marc:Baby of the year.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, what is that?
Marc:How does that stuff, how do you decide on that shit?
Guest:Uh, that one I like, uh, uh,
Guest:That was an SNL sketch that Tim was working on that just kind of didn't work.
Guest:So then when he was doing the show, he was like, I know Sam knows how to do this sort of energy.
Guest:And again, a character who has these...
Guest:Sort of like, wait, hmm.
Guest:This host of this show, the premise is already like a weird thing where it's like picking who the best baby is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then you put this level of like, who's this host of this show?
Guest:You can just let the baby thing be the sketch itself.
Guest:Like, oh, these babies.
Guest:And then they look at the babies.
Guest:But it's like, no, the babies are like a side thing.
Guest:It's what's happening.
Guest:But like really-
Guest:It's just weird.
Guest:This weird, weird guy.
Guest:Then also the fact that there's like this history that's happened in the sketch, like the sketch has been going that in this world, this thing has been going on for a long time.
Guest:The judges are all confused and like upset and riled up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like he's trying to end the audience hates one baby.
Guest:And it's like all these levels, you know, just makes it a cacophony.
Guest:And it's like it's like my job in that sketch to sort of.
Guest:Well, I don't even say like to manage because like, no, he's like a wild guy who's like not really managing.
Guest:He's doing his own thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it just seems like what it really is is about commitment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For that, Garrett, it's all about commitment.
Marc:But all of it, you know, like, you know, at some point the sort of.
Marc:Element of discovery must be kind of fun because, you know, you guys got to know it's funny because it's not it's not necessarily going to be funny on the page, as they say.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You're not writing these jokes or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, we'll never write jokes.
Guest:That's the thing, though.
Guest:There won't be jokes.
Guest:Yeah, because it's complete.
Guest:Commitment.
Guest:And the person believing the thing.
Guest:The situation.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:So it's never a wink, never a nod.
Guest:It's always just the person is doing that thing and they believe it entirely.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so you can kind of do anything ridiculous.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:So if you're just sort of like whatever you decide it's going to be, whether it's going to be a guy who only sells remote controls-
Marc:Right.
Marc:Even just something that simple, if you or Tim were to be like, just go all in.
Marc:Just go all in.
Guest:Because the guy's selling remote controls.
Guest:It's because he sold everything he's got to sell these remote controls.
Guest:And he really believes it.
Guest:And people are like, remote controls are done.
Guest:He's like, no.
Guest:Trust me.
Guest:What, you want to use your phone?
Guest:That doesn't make sense.
Guest:So the person dives in.
Guest:He believes it.
Guest:And I'm desperate.
Guest:You know, it's like, ah.
Guest:He's like, well, do you have a better remote at home?
Guest:I guarantee you this remote is not going to do what this remote can do.
Guest:Please.
Guest:Please.
Guest:Let me come to your house and look at your remotes.
Guest:So the desperation is essential.
Guest:It's essential.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:so do you like do you write on that show as well no no he just has you on sometimes just has me on and like I'll like he'll send me some scripts I'll be like that's funny maybe do this but I'm not like and he's out here too he's out here yeah what's he working on
Guest:He's getting ready to pitch a couple shows.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is he going to do more of that other thing?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I'm not sure.
Marc:You're not representing.
Guest:I'm not a representative.
Guest:I'm not a- So what do you got going on?
Guest:I've got this show called After Party that's coming to- Yeah, we talked about it briefly.
Guest:Briefly, yeah.
Marc:But there's a big cast in there.
Marc:A lot of these young comic heroes in there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Alana, right?
Marc:Alana Glazer-
Marc:Ben Schwartz has got a lot of physical business going on.
Guest:He does.
Guest:He does.
Guest:He does.
Guest:That's a good way to put it.
Marc:I know him.
Marc:I've interviewed him.
Marc:He's a nice guy.
Marc:But I'm watching him.
Marc:I watch him and everything.
Marc:He's like, a lot of things happen.
Marc:Hands are moving.
Marc:Heads moving.
Guest:But how about that?
Guest:A lot of things are moving, but it's all precise still.
Guest:It's pretty fascinating because we spent a lot of time together on this show.
Guest:First of all, we shot that show in the height of COVID.
Guest:So we were shooting that show.
Guest:Everybody's getting off like, cut, mask.
Guest:Mask, exactly.
Guest:And then we're just like, oh, here's zone A, zone B. You guys are all together.
Guest:You get your masks on.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:But I spent so much time with him.
Marc:Big ensemble for COVID shooting.
Guest:True.
Guest:Truly.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Truly.
Guest:We shot that show from like October to February.
Guest:So that's like the height of everything.
Guest:And so, you know, also these would be the only people I'd see.
Guest:I'd go home and I'd be at work.
Guest:There's like no going anywhere else in between.
Guest:Yeah, because you didn't want to catch it and bring it.
Guest:And then shut the show down.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So you did a lot of work with him because you guys are buddies.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I didn't know him super well before.
Guest:No.
Guest:So doing the show, I was like, oh, okay.
Guest:Working with someone like this, you really get to analyze and sort of absorb that person.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, okay.
Guest:So you say a lot of movements.
Guest:I'm like, oh, but all these things are very specific.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he's so quick also.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His brain will come up with four things in an instant, and I'm like, that's really impressive and really good.
Marc:But he's like a full-on improviser guy, isn't he?
Guest:Yes, yep.
Guest:He's not Chicago, though.
Guest:He's not Chicago improviser.
Guest:New York, UCB.
Guest:UCB, yeah.
Guest:Oh, he's one of those guys.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Did you guys ... It seems like there should be some competitions between the ... Between the New York and the Chicago?
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think- UCB is born of Chicago, though.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:I knew those original UCBers.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I remember when they showed up with their big idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The four of them and their big ideas.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then they built their little, had their little theaters.
Marc:And now they run the model still.
Marc:I don't know where any of that is going since COVID, but sort of franchising.
Marc:And I don't know, does UCB have the roadshow business too?
Guest:I think they do.
Guest:It's not the same as like Second City.
Guest:It's like Second City is like, if you're on a touring company, you're touring 52 weeks out of the year.
Guest:You know, that's your job, you know?
Guest:And like maybe you can do something on the side.
Guest:Did you have to have a moment where you're like, I gotta get out?
Guest:Yeah, I was like, I'm moving to LA.
Guest:And they're like, you want to join the main stage?
Guest:I was like, okay.
Guest:In LA?
Guest:In LA, yeah.
Guest:She did it here?
Guest:So no, but I said I'm moving to LA, and they asked me to join the Chicago main stage.
Marc:Oh, so they tried to keep you in the family.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And then two years later, I was like, all right, I'm moving to LA.
Guest:And they're like, nothing we can do.
Guest:Yeah, we gave them the best we have.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Because in fact, I was going to leave that cruise ship, and I was like, all right, I'm moving to LA.
Guest:And they're like, come join the touring company.
Marc:So the After Party, whose show is that?
Guest:How did that come about?
Guest:Chris Miller wrote and directed it.
Guest:It's Lord and Miller who produced the show.
Guest:What did they do?
Guest:They did...
Guest:Lego movie and Clone High and the 21 Jump Street movies.
Guest:Really brilliant dudes.
Guest:I really love those guys.
Marc:They're really... It all seems very tight and the characters are very specific.
Marc:It's almost like we were talking about before.
Marc:There's almost a Comedia Della Arte thing.
Marc:Everybody's occupying a fairly familiar space.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You know, because everybody has their like sort of tropes in their genre because that trope then fits into their genre.
Marc:Of the movie that the memories.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:That's the whole hook of the thing that if I had watched more of them, I would have known.
Marc:You would have known it.
Marc:But no, I come in here pretending that I'm hip after watching one.
Marc:But when you told me that that was Yang, I'm like, oh, okay.
Marc:I can see it.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:I didn't put it together.
Guest:Fair.
Marc:How could you have?
Marc:It's not my job to watch the whole fucking series, is it?
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:It should be your pleasure.
Marc:I'm going to get back to it.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get the Apple screeners.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No, it looks like a fun show.
Marc:And I think that those things are like, especially with the success of like Knives Out was, you know, it's a popular thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And this is like, this is like geared to younger folks.
Marc:You know, there's familiar archetypes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And this all revolves around a high school reunion.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Then there's the guy that nobody knows that is set up to make you think he did it from the beginning.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:All right, whatever.
Marc:Tiffany Haddish plays the detective.
Guest:Who's coming here to kind of figure this thing out.
Marc:So she interviews everybody?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:But everyone factors into everybody's memory, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So everybody's just recalling the story.
Guest:Like Rashomon, everybody's telling the story through their own perspective because everybody's there and everybody's involved.
Guest:So it's like, of course, everybody to themselves is innocent, but everybody else is a suspect to each person.
Guest:So it's like you're watching and you're like, oh, how do you piece this story together?
Guest:But-
Marc:Here's the thing fucking... Sorry about my language.
Marc:Here's the thing that upsets me about these things these days.
Marc:Any kind of mystery thriller, even if it's a comedic one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is it possible to figure out who it is from the evidence given?
Guest:I will say...
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:I would say yes.
Guest:Because I get so pissed off.
Guest:In the last episode, they're like, oh, by the way, there was a duck.
Guest:There's this guy.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:He's like, wait a minute.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like that mayor of East.
Marc:Mayor of Easttown.
Marc:Yeah, which I love and I love her, but it was sort of like, there was no way to figure that out.
Guest:Well, I'll say that, but this is true for, I feel, any good mystery gives you the pieces, but then it has to unveil more.
Guest:Just like any investigation, you don't have all the evidence at the beginning.
Marc:Well, it can't be easy.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:But to protect your narrative and to keep people watching, you can't at the very end.
Guest:You can't introduce a whole other thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like cheating.
Guest:It doesn't do that.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:It doesn't do that.
Marc:So by the end of After Party, you'd be like, oh, of course.
Guest:You'd be like, oh, ooh.
Marc:Oh, why didn't I see that?
Guest:There's pieces in the whole thing where you're like, oh, if you were paying attention.
Guest:And there's some things that you wouldn't know even to look for, but it's there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So how do your folks take your success?
Guest:They're very proud.
Guest:They're very sweet.
Guest:Are you like a star in Ghana now?
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:In fact, yes.
Guest:I was there with Conan, and then at night, so during the day, I would hang out with Conan.
Guest:How did you know Conan?
Guest:I've just done the show a few times.
Guest:Friend of the show.
Guest:Friend of the show.
Guest:He likes you.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You named your cat after him.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I didn't even tell him that.
Guest:I haven't told him, but yeah.
Guest:I don't know if Tony, if you listen, our cat is named after you.
Guest:I was there and at night I'd hang out with my cousins, you know, and I would go to like, and now they got Burger King there, they got KFC there, which is crazy.
Guest:We were at a KFC and I'm just like, are you Sam Richardson?
Guest:I was like, wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In Ghana.
Guest:In Ghana.
Guest:I'm like, okay.
Guest:How do you know you?
Guest:From Veep?
Guest:From Detroiters.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I was like, that's wonderful.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, show business is so international now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's kind of wild.
Marc:That's good and bad, but people can watch anything anywhere.
Guest:It used to be that only big action stars, like the whole world knew Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Or Vin Diesel.
Marc:Or Vin Diesel.
Marc:Or Jason Stratham.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Or, I just keep naming them.
Guest:See, or Bruce Willis.
Marc:Yeah, that was old days.
Guest:Matt Damon.
Guest:The Bourne Identity.
Marc:Matt Damon.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, or the Asian guy.
Marc:Jackie Chan.
Marc:Jackie Chan, big.
Guest:Oh yeah, I was big Jackie Chan.
Guest:Were you?
Guest:Oh my goodness.
Guest:I'm talking about every movie where there's autobiography.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh yes.
Marc:Love that guy.
Guest:Love that guy.
Marc:You should do a martial arts movie.
Guest:I want to.
Marc:You're going to be in one.
Marc:You'll probably be in the next Jackie Chapman.
Marc:Is that Sam?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He did that scene.
Guest:Just pop up in there.
Marc:He got his ass kicked.
Guest:Like, what are we doing, Jackie?
Guest:Uh-oh.
Guest:I'm the bad guy?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:You ever do stand-up?
Guest:Never.
Guest:I've never done stand-up.
Guest:I've done, like, a stand-up set where I did, like, a character, you know?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Where I'm like, hey, I'm this guy.
Guest:Character guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because, like, come in with what you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm out of my element.
Marc:Why don't you and Tim and Eric Andre and Tim and Eric do a movie?
Marc:I'd love that.
Marc:I'd love that.
Marc:Just a pushy envelope of what's possible.
Marc:Because what you describe about how you work or when you work with Tim, it seems like Andre is just a balls-of-the-wall kind of like, fuck it, destructive guy.
Marc:Like that's where he's going.
Marc:Right.
Marc:His commitment is like, I hope something's on fire by the time we're done with this bit.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And if not, then we'll do it again somewhere else.
Marc:We got to wreck a car and someone's got to be crying by the time this is over.
Marc:Otherwise, it's not complete.
Marc:Are you a Tim and Eric fan?
Guest:Yeah, very much so.
Guest:Do you know those guys?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I know Tim.
Guest:I don't know Eric very well.
Guest:Tim seems to be the more accessible.
Marc:Tim's out there a bit doing things.
Marc:We came up watching them.
Marc:Eric just seems to be cooking.
Guest:He's cooking and hanging out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You came up watching them?
Guest:When we were at Second City... They were the guys?
Guest:They were the guys because what they were doing was so new.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:And they were breaking form.
Guest:So we're like, oh, wow, okay.
Guest:And so I think that what we do is born of...
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:Not, not, I wouldn't say it's like the, it's not a copy of, and I won't say it's like.
Guest:No, no, I get it.
Marc:But like, but, but when you were young, like, you know, there were like each generation has these models, you know, like it all starts with Del Close.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So everybody's sort of like, you got to do this, do it this way to get to this place.
Marc:But like, I guess for, you know, people who are into the form or the possibilities, you know, Tim and Eric must've been like, we got to watch what these dudes are doing because it's fucking out there and this is where it's going.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:At that time, we were at Second City, so we were in mecca of sketch comedy.
Marc:We were in it, and we were like, wait a minute, what are these guys doing?
Marc:It is a lot about... It seems like the one thing that happens in Second City, and that...
Marc:what that created, it's still about that weird commitment.
Marc:And what are you going to do with it?
Marc:Like once you got your character, you know, how are you going to push it, you know, beyond what it's, you know, can hold.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Like how full can this bucket get?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, and how persistent can you be with, with, you know, to the point of annoying.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Cause like with Tim and Eric, you don't even understand why anything's happening.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:But they're in it, but they're in it.
Guest:And then like on top of that, then there's an edit on top of it.
Marc:And yeah, the weird different cameras they use and like they're playing with sort of a lot of that local access vibe.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Which makes everything sad and weird.
Guest:And desperate.
Marc:Desperate.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I guess that's what, yeah.
Marc:Like I think that what's evolving is that you used to hide the desperate.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You used to hide it.
Guest:But like that's what's also funny is like you hiding the desperate is hilarious.
Marc:But knowing that's what you're doing, I'm saying that every fucking improviser is desperate.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:But now there's ownership of the desperation.
Guest:We come into our own.
Guest:That's the tone.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:All right, buddy.
Marc:We figured it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Good job, us.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Good talking to you, man.
Guest:It's so good talking to you.
Marc:All right.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:The After Party is now streaming on Apple TV+.
Marc:There are three episodes up there.
Marc:Here's a lick I couldn't get out of my head.
Guest:The After Party
Thank you.
Guest:guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey in La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.