Episode 130 - Mike DeStefano
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Marron.
Marc:All right, are we doing this?
Marc:Let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fucking knots?
Marc:Whatever the fuck you want to call yourselves.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF, or as we call it, What the Fuck with Mark Maron.
Marc:I am him.
Marc:Hope everyone is well.
Marc:I am okay.
Marc:Feeling a little ill, feeling a little under the weather, feeling that nag, that fluey, buggy nag that's sort of like right at the heart of my being.
Marc:There's a sort of like, hey, how's it going?
Marc:I'm just going to tug on your spirit for a little while.
Marc:Just a light viral tug on your spirit that will confuse and baffle you for a few days and make you wonder whether or not you're really going to get sick.
Marc:How's that feel?
Marc:Pretty annoying, right?
Marc:When is it going to go away?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Well, I don't know either, but I'm sure that coffee doesn't help.
Marc:pow i think i just shit my pants but it's unclear whether or not that's me getting sick or the coffee that's just coffee.coop available at just coffee.coop or at wtfpod.com and also i got this going hold on this is inappropriate but it is apple season can you hear that i got a big mouthful of apple sorry hold on let's get through this together i didn't mean to do that sorry
Marc:I fucking love apples, like really crisp, slightly tart apples that pop when you bite them.
Marc:The Honeycrisp apple, how is that not the greatest invention ever?
Marc:Where did that come from?
Marc:Why was I denied a Honeycrisp apple for most of my life?
Marc:Do they just make up new apple versions?
Marc:They do, right?
Marc:The Honeycrisp apple is the fucking best.
Marc:And then I found this one at Whole Foods, which I don't, I do not, I'm not supporting you shopping there.
Marc:But if you have to, I had to get some oregano oil because I'm afraid I'm going to get sick.
Marc:So oregano oil makes me less afraid and makes me feel like I'm doing something proactive not to get sick along with sleeping and drinking lots of fluids and soup and all that other shit that probably doesn't work.
Marc:But I've decided that oregano oil works.
Marc:And I picked up some of these apples, which I have not seen in years.
Marc:This is the Arkansas Black Apple.
Marc:I only saw them once before, like many years ago at Whole Foods, and they have a lot of pop to them, a lot of crisp, and they're sweet, and they're kind of leathery, which I don't love, but I think they're special.
Marc:Where are they hiding these different apple kinds?
Marc:All right, let's get into the show a little bit, can we?
Marc:I know I'm a little hyper now because I'm fighting sickness, but today on the show, we got Mike DiStefano.
Marc:Mike DiStefano, I've known for years.
Marc:I mean, I've known of him and I've met him over the years, over and over again.
Marc:You know, he's really come into himself as a comic.
Marc:He's a deeply interesting dude.
Marc:Comes from a world that I could not begin to understand, that being the Bronx.
Marc:And he's got some things to disclose and some things to talk about.
Marc:He's got a very dark but very beautiful story.
Marc:And I can't wait to let you hear the chat I had with him down in Florida.
Marc:We actually had the chat.
Marc:at a drug rehab because he knew a buddy who ran this place and it was the only place we could find between my mother's house and where he was staying that we could get an empty quiet space so uh so that added a whole different element to the uh to the show but but i think you're going to be sort of blown uh not blown blown i think your mind is going to be a little blown when you hear me and mike talk
Marc:And, you know, obviously here on WTF, we don't shy away from topics.
Marc:You know, we've talked about addiction at length, about drug use.
Marc:We've talked about those struggles.
Marc:And obviously, look, I don't proselytize.
Marc:I don't judge.
Marc:I'm not above anybody.
Marc:You know, if you like to use drugs, knock yourself out.
Marc:If you like to drink, knock yourself out.
Marc:No one can tell you you have a problem or plenty of people can tell you, but you may not believe them until you believe them.
Marc:You got to believe it for yourself.
Marc:Only you can judge your level of unmanageability and whether or not it's a problem.
Marc:And only you can decide how you're going to deal with that monster.
Marc:You know how I've dealt with it.
Marc:Now, again, do what you got to do.
Marc:But I'll tell you, sometimes you talk to people that have been through some shit and whatever minor problems I'm having.
Marc:Like, I don't feel well, feel a little under the weather and I'm whining about it.
Marc:Then I get an email from a guy who's paralyzed.
Marc:He says, I'm sorry, you're sick, but obviously.
Marc:And then there's always that.
Marc:Yeah, he's obviously in a different situation than I am.
Marc:And it makes me, I guess, count my blessings or be grateful or or put my personal discomfort into perspective.
Marc:But sometimes I don't know, like, hey, look, there's always someone worse off than you.
Marc:How is that different than schadenfreude?
Marc:How is that different than saying, ah, look at that guy.
Marc:Glad I'm not him.
Marc:It's just a different tone.
Marc:There's empathy involved.
Marc:There's no difference between saying like, oh, my God, you know, I shouldn't complain.
Marc:There's always people worse off than me.
Marc:And like, look at that guy.
Marc:The only difference is empathy.
Marc:It's roughly the same sort of equation.
Marc:But that aside, the conversation with Mike was very revealing in a way that I've not really dealt with on this show.
Marc:And I'll let you guys listen to it and enjoy that.
Marc:There's a couple of things that I have to do before we get into that.
Marc:One is call my father, who I haven't spoken to since Thanksgiving.
Marc:I don't know how his holidays went.
Marc:So let me try to get my dad on the phone and get that out of the way before we talk to Mike DiStefano.
Marc:Let's just give him a call.
Guest:Please enjoy the music while your party is reached.
Guest:Oh, come on.
Guest:I can hear that.
Guest:Hello?
Guest:Hey, Dad, it's Mark.
Guest:Uh, Dad?
Guest:I got the wrong number?
Guest:Probably not at all.
Guest:I'm not as old as you.
Guest:You don't have any kids?
Guest:Yeah, I kind of thought that was a weird musical choice for my dad.
Guest:I apologize.
Guest:yeah bye oh hey rosie it's mark hi mark how are you good happy thanksgiving oh happy thanksgiving to you how was it it was good a lot of food you know too much food but too much a lot a lot of food but you know it was a good it was good though right yes yes it was what are you guys doing
Guest:I'm searching for something that your dad can't find, and I'm curious with him because I'm always on a search.
Guest:Yeah, what is it today?
Guest:His little things for the computer, you know, he has a little pouch for him.
Guest:Uh-huh, a pouch.
Guest:I can't find him, so I had to rush from church and...
Guest:I'm on a search for him, as usual.
Marc:Oh, Jesus.
Guest:I can't find him!
Guest:And yelling, and then I get pains in my stomach, and I'm... So I'm on a search.
Guest:All right, well, where's he?
Guest:He's at the office.
Guest:And you're at home searching for a pouch?
Guest:A pouch.
Guest:Yes, a little red pouch that he misplaced again.
Guest:And what goes in there?
Guest:You know, the little computer, those little...
Guest:whatever you call them, chips, whatever he uses for his computer, for his laptop.
Marc:A hard drive?
Guest:Yeah, those little whatever they are.
Guest:And there's a bunch of, you know, quite a few of them.
Guest:He misplaced them the other day and thanked me because I finally found him and now he misplaced them again.
Guest:And then I get pains in my stomach and I've got to stop.
Guest:Yeah, all right.
Guest:Well, all right.
Guest:Well, I'm sorry you're going through that.
Guest:But hopefully I'll find it, and I've got to look for it and find it and take it to the office, I hope.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Well, I'm sorry.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:You've got quite a burden to deal with.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I'll talk to you soon.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:Bye.
Guest:This is Dr. Marin.
Guest:Please leave a message.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Hey, Dad, it's Mark.
Marc:I'm calling you.
Marc:I just spoke to Rosie.
Marc:I don't have any idea where the red pouch is.
Marc:I don't have it here in California, so I can't help you with that search.
Marc:All right, well, I'll try you on your work phone because I know this is a big crisis.
Guest:Hello.
Guest:Hey.
Guest:Hi, man.
Guest:How you doing, buddy?
Guest:Doing great.
Guest:Yeah, you're going to... What's this thing that you lost that Rosie's looking for?
Guest:I carry my thumb drives in it.
Marc:Where are you?
Marc:At work?
Guest:I'm just sitting here.
Marc:You talked to Craig, huh?
Marc:That must have been quite an event.
Marc:He asked me for your phone number.
Marc:I said, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:And what happened with that?
Guest:Well, I made him an offer that he's... I mean, I need somebody to take on this business and move it as a businessman.
Guest:I'll work for him.
Guest:Here, Craig, here's all the business.
Guest:Here's what needs to be done.
Guest:Here's the four cities.
Guest:I want to see it done in the next 24 months.
Guest:I just want somebody to do it.
Guest:He's capable of doing that.
Guest:This is a lucrative business, eventually.
Marc:The pain management business.
Guest:Basically, we don't have enough people to run it.
Marc:All right, so you want... I guess, like, maybe... I'm just trying to feel this out.
Marc:So you think Craig is a little...
Marc:a little reticent to get into business with his father who claims that he will work for him after years of watching your father scramble through a series of bad investments and money-losing enterprises on top of the tension of a lifetime of that relationship.
Marc:And you can't understand why he might be a little resistant to doing that.
Guest:Yeah, but it's something you could ease into.
Guest:You could just come over here and work a week and get things set up and think about it, go home and write up a business plan.
Marc:But have you forgotten that you guys can't sit in a room together for more than two hours?
Marc:I can't even imagine after that first meeting.
Marc:what would transpire?
Marc:I'm trying to picture the meeting where you two are sitting there trying to put a business together.
Marc:Oh, Christ.
Guest:That would last about 45 minutes.
Guest:There's some truth to what you say, but I think it could be fine.
Guest:I mean, he's a...
Guest:I am just cuckoo.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Well, I'll call him up and I'll ask him about just what his resistance is to getting into business as your boss.
Guest:Well, I mean, I'm moving forward on the concept because I need somebody now to do this, to start getting this set up.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Well, it sounds good.
Guest:Sounds like you've got a lot going on.
Guest:I'll talk to you.
Guest:Love you.
Guest:Stay well.
Marc:All right, Dad.
Marc:Love you, too.
Marc:Bye.
Guest:Hello.
Guest:Hey.
Guest:Hey, man.
Guest:Back in L.A.?
Guest:Yeah, you all right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sounds like you got a good business opportunity in Albuquerque.
Guest:exactly what the hell is that about um i called him to ask what type of vitamins he's on and what type of vitamins uh you know maybe i should take the vitamins right i called about vitamins and the next thing you know you know he's asking what i'm doing and now i'm i'm running his company and he sent me a long email says hey you really should think about this and i tried to be real polite about it i was talking to him hey dad it sounds great but you're excited about it and
Guest:It's not going to work for me.
Guest:It's not like something you can just jump over and do in Albuquerque.
Guest:I've got a family here.
Guest:I was trying to take rational reasons why I can't do this.
Guest:He's like, no, you can probably go over here three times a week.
Guest:It's your type of business, fine.
Guest:But he said that, you know, he would work for you.
Marc:I mean, that's got to be great.
Marc:I mean, when he told me about it, I was just trying to picture the first meeting.
Guest:How does that play out?
Guest:Where he lays out his ideas, you look at it for five minutes and go, you fucked up our whole family.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:So anyway, I try to leave the phone call and not get upset and not get engaged in it.
Guest:I don't want to start by saying something like that.
Guest:I don't want to do it.
Guest:That would have been my go-fuck-you.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I don't know quite sure how to handle it.
Guest:So let me understand.
Guest:You're not going to take the job.
Guest:Not this particular job, no.
Guest:I'm going to pass up on this opportunity.
Marc:All right, dude.
Marc:I just wanted to check in.
Marc:I love you, man.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:I love you.
Marc:I love you, too.
Marc:Bye.
Guest:This is Dr. Marin.
Guest:Please leave a message.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Hey, Dad, Mark.
Marc:Shit.
Marc:Happy birthday yesterday.
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:I'm sorry I missed it.
Marc:I just... I didn't remember.
Marc:I guess you really didn't have that much impact on my life.
Marc:It's kind of your fault.
Marc:I should have... It's your fault that I didn't remember.
Marc:That's what I'm saying.
Marc:All right, but I love you.
Marc:And maybe next year.
Marc:Am I right?
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:I better call you.
Marc:You're going to misunderstand this message.
Guest:Hello.
Marc:Hey, Dad.
Marc:How you doing, man?
Marc:Hey, sorry.
Marc:Hey, happy birthday.
Marc:I'm sorry I forgot.
Marc:I just didn't seem to give a shit.
Marc:So how was your birthday?
Guest:Oh, I had a great time.
Guest:It was a super party.
Guest:They really surprised me.
Guest:I can't believe that I was that distracted with my life that I didn't realize what was going on.
Marc:You got a surprise party?
Marc:You were surprised that you were so self-involved that you couldn't really figure out that they were plotting a surprise party?
Guest:I guess so.
Marc:Did you hear the good news, Dad?
Marc:I don't know if you read in the New York Times, but narcissistic personality disorder is no longer going to be listed in the DSM.
Marc:You're a free man.
Yeah.
Marc:They took off narcissistic personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder, and dependency personality disorder.
Marc:So you've got three out of five at least.
Marc:So now you're just a few symptoms that are not necessarily connected to any broader diagnosis.
Marc:So you're a free man.
Guest:I appreciate that.
Marc:Maybe you can go get your old job back at the hospital.
Guest:Right, right.
That's right.
Marc:So wait, tell me how many people showed up.
Marc:I just want to know how many people felt guilty and had to pretend that they were your friend.
Guest:There was over 100 people there.
Marc:Well, that's great, 100 people.
Marc:So you were driving over there, probably yelling at your wife about something.
Marc:Am I right?
Guest:No, it was just because I was sort of above.
Guest:I wasn't even thinking.
Guest:She said, we're going out for dinner.
Guest:I said, okay.
Guest:I just went along.
Guest:I didn't even realize it was early in the afternoon.
Guest:She says, pick me up at 5.
Guest:I said, what for?
Guest:I said, yeah, it will be early.
Guest:We'll go out for early dinner, and that was how it went, man.
Guest:We just pulled up, I walked in, and there it was.
Marc:Holy shit, that's great, Dad.
Marc:So did you ever find that little hard drive thing, or what?
Guest:Yeah, I found it.
Marc:Where was that?
Guest:It was in my pocket.
Guest:It was in my shirt pocket, and I had the jacket and the sweater on.
Guest:I never felt up there, so I just got lost.
Guest:It was fascinating.
Marc:You made your wife come home from church to find a thing.
Marc:You upset her, and it was in your pocket when I talked to you?
Guest:It was.
Marc:Oh, boy.
Guest:All right, man.
Guest:Take the call.
Marc:I love you.
Marc:Take care.
Marc:Bye.
Guest:I love you.
Bye.
Marc:i'm in the i'm in what are we in north south florida what are we we're in delray beach yeah delray beach florida i had to uh i had to go uh track mike di stefano down wherever i could find him i happen to have family down here and we decided to meet halfway between where my mother lives in hollywood florida and where he's staying and where you in boca or palm beach west palm beach yeah
Marc:So we decided on Delray Beach at a place of Mike's choosing, which is a rehab facility.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:That it is a, what do you call this?
Marc:It's like a halfway house, right?
Guest:It's a residence.
Guest:Yeah, it's a halfway house mostly for drug addicts, people.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:So we walked in.
Marc:I got free recovery coffee.
Marc:There was donuts there.
Marc:There's plenty of people smoking a lot outside.
Marc:It's very familiar to me.
Marc:I feel that by the end of this, it will feel as though I had a meeting, which I'm not getting to.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:What is that, gum you're chewing?
Marc:No, this is nicotine lozenges, but don't tell my listeners because I quit them.
Guest:Oh, okay, yeah.
Marc:Voss has been chewing Nicorette gum for 20 years.
Marc:I've been on these on and off for a while, and it's... Whatever.
Marc:It's the addiction.
Guest:You know, I can't fucking shake certain shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We're not going to be perfect, man.
Marc:We're lucky we're not smoking crack and shooting heroin or whatever we did, you know?
Marc:Well, I mean, I think the first time I actually saw you was probably eight or nine years ago at Al Martin's club, Boka Nuts.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:When... What was her name?
Marc:Linda?
Marc:Linda Cork.
Marc:Linda Cork was running the place.
Marc:And, you know, quite honestly, I found you to be a little a little scary to me.
Marc:You're a little weird.
Marc:You're a little sweaty.
Marc:You're a little shifty.
Marc:You were nervous.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, you were doing your jokes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I sense it was something I sense there was something awry in there.
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Guest:Yeah, that was a while ago.
Guest:When did you start?
Guest:Eight years ago.
Guest:I just started about 10 years ago, like, just dabbling.
Guest:So, I mean, when you saw me, when we met, I was really just starting out.
Guest:That was one of my first feature sets, I would imagine, like having to do 20 minutes of material.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, and...
Guest:When I started comedy, my life was a fucking nightmare at that time.
Guest:You started down here?
Guest:Yeah, I started in Florida.
Guest:Where are you from originally?
Guest:I'm from the Bronx, New York.
Guest:That's where I grew up.
Guest:I had a crazy childhood like a lot of people.
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:People's picture of the Bronx is burned out houses.
Marc:It's fucking crazy.
Marc:I don't have the sense of the Bronx.
Guest:I lived in an Italian area in the Bronx.
Guest:It's called Throgs Neck.
Guest:But not by Arthur's Ave.
Guest:No, Arthur Avenue is like the famous Italian area.
Guest:It's the same kind of area, just in a different part of the Bronx.
Guest:And yeah, I grew up around wise guys and tough guys.
Guest:For real?
Guest:Oh yeah, for real.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like mob killers?
Guest:Absolutely, yeah.
Guest:I have more... I know more murderers than most people that you're gonna... Most humans, but let alone comedians.
Guest:Yeah, I got... I grew up with people that are just animals.
Marc:I mean, I met... Like, the first time I really met... I've met two, like, mob... You know, contract killer guys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the second one I met briefly, and he was with the one kid I knew who was not in the mob, but he was a guy.
Marc:He wasn't all Italian.
Marc:He was a contract hitter for the mob at some point.
Marc:But he came into a club one night, I don't need to mention clubs or anything, with a real made guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And there's a sense you get when you look into their eyes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's chilling.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, what do you make of that?
Guest:What is that?
Guest:Oh, that's just... That's who they are, man.
Guest:It's like... In fact, my first shot... My first...
Guest:At the comic strip in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got into the comic strip, not through the booker, not through any way.
Guest:I got in through a wise guy.
Guest:A guy from my neighborhood knew the owner, Richie Tinkin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And got me a spot on the show.
Guest:So I, you know, the guy that got me the spot also thought it would be fun to come and watch me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he came along with my brother and a few other guys.
Guest:And one of the other guys happened to be, I would say, a serial killer is the right way to describe him.
Guest:Not kidding around.
Guest:He was a killer for money.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Well, he killed people for money, but then every once in a while, he would kill people that just deserved to be yelled at, if you know what I mean.
Guest:Like one of those guys.
Marc:That's so fucking scary to me.
Guest:Dude, I'm telling you, people have no idea.
Guest:I don't really talk about this in my act because it's my life, and it's like it doesn't seem like it would be interesting or funny.
Guest:But do you feel like you're going to get into trouble?
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, I would never mention anyone's name ever.
Guest:You know, nothing like that.
Guest:That's craziness, you know.
Guest:But this was, okay, so they come to your show.
Guest:So they come, and I'm on deck waiting to go on the stage.
Guest:And this is my first time at the comic strip.
Guest:And all of us, and D.F.
Guest:Sweedler, you probably know, was hosting.
Guest:And then he brought this other guy up.
Guest:And I'm standing there watching.
Guest:And all of a sudden, I just see ice cubes being thrown at the guy.
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:Yeah, and I look out, and sure enough, it's this psychopathic killer from my neighborhood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Lucian, the... He was still alive.
Guest:Lucian Hall.
Guest:Yeah, Lucian was alive.
Guest:He came over with his chest out.
Guest:Oh, how dare they?
Guest:I said, dude, I don't know.
Guest:I'm the manager.
Guest:I go, well, you shouldn't bother that guy.
Guest:I swear.
Guest:He goes, why not?
Guest:I said, because he'll kill you.
Guest:And he goes, what do you mean?
Guest:I go, that just always struck me.
Guest:When someone says, I'm going to kill you, what do you mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's going to make you not be fucking alive anymore.
Guest:Point blank.
Guest:And I wasn't kidding.
Guest:Like, this guy literally would have killed him.
Guest:Like, he's that kind of guy.
Guest:So anyway, I went over to the table and I said, please, to this guy, I said, please stop.
Guest:You're going to get me thrown out.
Guest:He said, Mike, I'm sorry, bud.
Guest:I was trying to help you out.
Guest:Like, his thinking was that if he hits the other guy with ice cubes, I'll be funnier.
Guest:That's how I grew up.
Guest:Those are one aspect of my friends.
Marc:So what happened in that set?
Guest:I ended up going up and did okay.
Guest:I was awful at comedy.
Guest:And that's the first time.
Marc:How did they respond, though?
Marc:Did they bust your balls when you were on stage?
Guest:My friends, no, they were cool.
Guest:Yeah, it was fun.
Guest:What I learned about, it was amazing.
Guest:My upbringing was, okay, well, like my brother, he got out of prison.
Guest:The day after that, he was in the union working at the Jacob Javits Center.
Guest:What was he in prison for?
Guest:For car theft.
Guest:He was a car ring guy.
Guest:Dude, we need six of these hours for different types of life.
Marc:So your brother worked for the mob?
Guest:My brother was, yeah.
Guest:My brother's a tough, you know, street guy.
Guest:Is he a maid guy?
Guest:No, no.
Marc:He's just a guy who's connected.
Guest:I wouldn't tell you.
Marc:You shouldn't be asking these kind of questions.
Marc:He's connected, that's all.
Marc:And they take care of the neighborhood, these guys.
Marc:In some sense.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know how it works anymore.
Marc:No, but I mean, your guy got you in at the strip, and this guy got your brother in the union.
Marc:So your family, I mean, what was your father's racket?
Guest:My father was good.
Guest:My father was a hardworking guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when I was a kid, he was arrested a couple of times.
Guest:I think he started his life out...
Guest:as a criminal when he was younger, and then just realized, like myself, I started out as a teenager.
Guest:I wanted to be a wise guy.
Guest:I wanted to be a gangster, point blank.
Guest:I didn't want to work.
Guest:Were you on the path?
Guest:I was totally on the path.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:That means you hang, well, first of all, the guys I grew up with
Guest:When you're tough in the streets as an 8, 10, 12-year-old, that carries over through your teens, and people respect you.
Guest:And then the next thing you know, you're in your 20s, and you're one of the toughest guys in the neighborhood, and everybody wants to get you involved in stuff.
Guest:I wasn't the toughest guy in the neighborhood, but my brother and his best friend are.
Guest:So I was always around it.
Guest:They were looking out for you anyways.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like, they wouldn't let me get involved in anything, because whenever I did, I fucked it up.
Guest:I was the worst criminal.
Guest:The worst.
Guest:Like, I started doing heroin when I was about 15 is the first time I took heroin.
Guest:That's a no-no, right?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:So I tell people heroin saved my life.
Guest:And they laugh.
Guest:Like, I'm dead serious.
Guest:Because the heroin got me away from...
Guest:Oh, man, I would do this.
Guest:I wanted to be a gangster so bad that I would have done anything.
Guest:And when I got on heroin, it just took me out of that picture for a few years.
Guest:Then I went to rehab and I got clean.
Guest:And then when I got out of rehab, I was 21.
Guest:I wanted to get back involved.
Guest:So I would bust this guy's balls to let me, they were moving heroin at the time, these guys.
Guest:So I said, give me the heroin.
Guest:I want to, you know, give me some heroin.
Guest:I got a connection.
Guest:I did have a guy that wanted some.
Guest:You sell a kilo of heroin, you're a big shot.
Guest:Anyway, they gave me about probably what amounted to be two grams of heroin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I said, let me taste it first and make sure it's good.
Guest:I've been clean for five years or so at the time.
Guest:But I'm like, I don't want to give these people bad heroin.
Guest:So let me just make sure it's good.
Guest:So I sniffed a couple of them.
Guest:I used to shoot, though.
Guest:I snorted a couple of hits of it.
Guest:And I'm like, this is bullshit until I try to stand up.
Guest:And then I realized how good it was.
Guest:So I ended up doing all the heroin.
Guest:and that was it so i had my wise guys looking for her but they couldn't do nothing to me because lucky they didn't give you more well yeah and it might two grams they're not going to get you that big of trouble oh no it was well not uh two grams is like a sample but it's worth a couple of grand you know oh yeah oh yeah heroin is expensive man wow what are those dime bags that's a tenth of a gram it's nothing yeah dime bag this is like this was a lot more than that you know right
Guest:And it was more pure than shit you're going to buy in a bag.
Guest:Oh, so you were going to step on it and give it to the guy?
Guest:No, I was giving it to this guy as a sample.
Guest:And if he liked it, he was going to buy a kilo.
Guest:A kilo.
Guest:A couple of hundred thousand is a kilo.
Guest:So I would have made myself 20 grand to move this shit.
Guest:I wanted to be a heroine.
Guest:So my first time out, I ruined the whole fucking thing.
Marc:But now having a reputation as a guy on dope in that community is not good.
Marc:They don't trust you with nothing.
Guest:But when you're so close to people as family, it's different.
Guest:Because I wasn't a scumbag.
Guest:I was never a scumbag.
Marc:You never struck me as that.
Guest:Yeah, I was never a low-life kind of guy where I would... I was a stand-up heroin addict, if you could imagine.
Marc:The impression I always got about you, as I got to know you a little more, and we're not tight, but we have an understanding with each other, is that sort of when I met you in...
Marc:where was that first wave of people paying attention for you was that in Montreal that we had the conversation in Aspen right and you were all excited about James Dixon and you know because oh yeah yeah because he was into you but like the thing that was enemy then I found out he didn't he never even saw my act right he just
Marc:He just jumped in on the fucking heat.
Marc:Well, I think that what was interesting to me about you is that you're going to be misunderstood.
Marc:He does that wise guy thing.
Marc:Whereas I don't see you as that.
Marc:I see that as part of your personality.
Marc:But underneath that, there's a lot of sensitivity.
Marc:There's a lot of self-awareness.
Marc:You're not really a tough guy.
Marc:You've got this tough guy exterior because of who you are and what you grew up with.
Marc:But I think your heart is pretty sweet.
Marc:Am I wrong?
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:I'm totally, I'm full of love for people.
Marc:Were you ever a guy who kicked people's asses?
Guest:You know, I had maybe 10 fights in my whole life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, you got to remember my teenage years, I was nodding out.
Guest:I was high.
Guest:So those years don't count.
Guest:Can't fight.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I got into fights over the last, during comedy have been, all my fist fights have been during stand-up.
Guest:Always self-defense.
Guest:I'm a good fighter, and I had a fight.
Guest:I was a great boxer when I was a kid.
Guest:So I've always done pretty well.
Guest:If I do get into a fight, I've done well.
Guest:So far.
Guest:So far, I've done well for myself.
Guest:But I have no desire to fight with anybody.
Guest:No desire.
Marc:Now, do you feel pigeonholed now when people expect you to be this wise guy that you're a little deeper than that?
Marc:And you talk about, like even talking about dope.
Marc:I mean, that's not a wise guy thing.
Marc:No, it's not.
Guest:You know, I...
Guest:You know, Mark, it's like this.
Guest:I mean, you know, you want to be understood.
Guest:I think that I'm moving.
Guest:I'm shifting my whole idea of what comedy is and where I want to go with it.
Guest:And to be honest with you, that was a great compliment coming from you.
Guest:Cause I've always looked at you as a guy that like, I never saw myself as smart or interesting or any of that.
Guest:I always considered myself the dumb fucking people have said he's like dice.
Guest:Like that is so far just because of an accent.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:My voice.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, he was pretending to be me.
Guest:I'm just me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like I don't, you know.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I think what people were trying to push you in that direction.
Marc:What I've noticed is when you push yourself in that direction, because, you know, the type of stories that you come from and given the recovery element of your life and the depth of your self-awareness is it must make you just fucking angry when people expect you to be just a flat out, dumb, you know, wise guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It really is annoying.
Guest:But what I was going to say was that I'm shifting away from what I guess we call it mainstream audiences.
Guest:Being on NBC on Last Comic Standing has just shown me what...
Guest:we're up against as artists I was in a I was in a um coffee shop couple weeks ago on the road and this guy and I was getting my coffee and the guys online one of them said the other one in my house there's two rules my wife's always right and number two if she's ever wrong see rule number one and they laughed hysterically and I said that's what I'm trying to reach these fucking idiots are the people I am trying to make understand and laugh
Guest:And then I got to go and work with Eugene Merman because of your show.
Guest:He brought me down to the village, this alternative room.
Guest:To Brooklyn, Union Hall.
Guest:The Union Hall.
Guest:And I just got up and I started talking about my wife having AIDS and how that's the same as being Catholic because of the shame and the guilt.
Guest:And you can't protect children from Catholic AIDS because you can't put a condom on their head and send them to school.
Guest:Hey, Jesus died for you.
Guest:I can't hear you have latex on my head.
Yeah.
Guest:I got such a reaction to that and it just fucking opened up a whole new world to me of comedy where I can talk about what's inside of me.
Guest:I can hide who I am.
Guest:First of all, let me just tell you, and I've wanted to say this, I've been wanting to talk about this forever.
Guest:And I haven't, not because I'm afraid, because I've never found the right place.
Guest:This is the right place.
Guest:When I was 21, I found out I'm HIV positive, okay?
Guest:I was diagnosed with HIV.
Guest:This is 21.
Guest:That's 22 years ago, 23 years ago.
Guest:And that's what changed my fucking life.
Guest:That's what just changed every priority.
Guest:When you know that you've got four or five years to live, for real...
Guest:you change shit and I that's what I want to talk about now where were you I was in New York at the time I had just gotten and were you married yet I wasn't no I I was I met my wife at the support group their aid support group okay that we went to I used to walk around and look at women that were in this particular building the gay men's health crisis yeah and I go oh I hope she has AIDS so sure you know
Guest:So I can fuck her?
Guest:Yeah, so I can fuck her.
Guest:That's the way it was back then.
Guest:It was like, please, if she has it.
Guest:So I met this beautiful girl, Fran, and she had been a recovering addict as well, and she was also positive.
Marc:So you got it from, because when you were 15, you cleaned up once, and then you relapsed again.
Guest:I relapsed after, about a year after being diagnosed.
Marc:Okay, so you were clean up into that point.
Marc:So that was when you tried to sell the dope?
Guest:Yeah, I tried to sell the dope after.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So you knew you were HIV positive.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And that's when I said, you know what?
Guest:The one thing the HIV thing gave me was it gave me that sense of I don't give a fuck.
Guest:I'm not afraid of anything.
Guest:And that's what I was always looking for as a kid.
Guest:I wanted to be a gangster so I could be unafraid.
Marc:So you saw that as this is what that did to you.
Marc:So you could either go either way.
Marc:You could either be self-destructive more or you could cherish your life.
Guest:I was on the fence.
Guest:I lived on the fence most of my life.
Guest:I grew up in my neighborhood and this is a true story.
Guest:I was a kid riding my bicycle and I saw these two
Guest:guys giving a cab driver a beating yeah and when i say a beating they were slamming his head in the door of the car yeah they were pulverizing this guy and i remember looking at them going i want to be like them and then i looked down at the guy that was being hit and i felt bad for him i was like this poor guy and then i spent the rest of my life trying to figure out which one am i going to be yeah because those are the only two paths
Marc:Was he from another country?
Marc:Did you get a sense of it?
Guest:No, he was a neighborhood guy, definitely.
Guest:It could have been something personal.
Guest:Oh, right, right.
Marc:It didn't matter.
Marc:That was your yin and yang moment.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That was like, this is what I have to choose from.
Marc:So you found out you're HIV positive.
Marc:You go to the support groups.
Marc:You meet your wife.
Marc:And then you moved down here?
Guest:Yeah, we moved to Florida.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because of the health.
Guest:Because dying.
Guest:We were dying.
Guest:We came down here.
Guest:I was 22.
Guest:She's a little older than me.
Guest:She was about 28 or 29.
Guest:And we literally came to Florida like too old.
Guest:people would do, Mark.
Guest:And that's what my life was at that time.
Guest:And I didn't know how long I would live.
Guest:I was told from the doctors... Who knew then?
Guest:Back then, people got the virus.
Guest:They died in four or five years.
Guest:So I expected that to happen.
Guest:What kind of treatments were you on at the beginning?
Guest:No, no treatments.
Guest:There were no treatments.
Guest:No AZT yet?
Guest:No, nothing.
Guest:They had AZT, but...
Guest:But I wasn't... Like, I didn't want to take it.
Guest:I didn't want to take the AZT.
Guest:I was like, I'm not taking that shit, you know?
Guest:She took it.
Guest:She took the AZT.
Guest:I didn't take it.
Guest:I wanted to live...
Guest:without any of that toxic shit in me at the time, because it was... They didn't know what the... They didn't know what they were giving people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I just didn't want to take it, and I didn't, and I'm glad I didn't, because I don't know anybody that's still alive that took the AZT.
Marc:So you come down here, you're with her, what, you got an apartment by the beach or something?
Guest:Yeah, we got an apartment.
Guest:We had a nice apartment in West Palm Beach.
Guest:You know, I was playing tennis.
Guest:I learned how to play tennis.
Guest:You know, I went from trying to be a heroin smuggler to a tennis player.
Marc:And you're going to meetings.
Marc:You're staying straight.
Guest:Yeah, I was staying straight.
Guest:I knew that that was the key to the whole thing was staying straight.
Guest:You know, I can't go using drugs again.
Guest:That's not going to give me the kind of life I'm looking for.
Guest:Did you ever figure out where you picked it up?
Guest:No, you know, you think about that, though.
Guest:When you get diagnosed with some kind of an illness like that, you go, who fucking gave it to me?
Guest:I got to find them as if that's going to make it go away.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It didn't matter.
Guest:I didn't give a shit.
Marc:Like in your using, did it get pretty dirty?
Marc:Were you in shooting galleries or you just had a group of guys?
Guest:You know, I went to shooting galleries.
Guest:I shared needles.
Guest:I fucked hookers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:there was no sense of caring about yourself.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:There was no sense of love.
Guest:My father beat me half to death as a kid.
Guest:Hospital beatings, not like smacked around.
Guest:For what, nothing?
Guest:Broke my hand.
Guest:Yeah, no, you know.
Guest:And I know you're asking that innocently, but when you think about it, like, for what?
Guest:Like, there's a reason why you should fucking break your child's hand, you know?
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:No, no, it's not you.
Guest:It's a natural question.
Guest:Yeah, like, what did you...
Guest:You do.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:You probably asked me your whole life you're asking that.
Marc:What did I do?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, no, but you're no different than me.
Guest:You deserve to be beaten half to death too, and you know it.
Guest:It's like we have this fucked up sense of ourselves.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Marc:So you come down here, and how long before your wife got sick?
Guest:You know, she... I noticed her getting sick during playing tennis, which is weird.
Guest:We're playing tennis back and forth, and she wasn't moving as quick as she was.
Guest:I said, what's the matter?
Guest:And she said, my legs hurt.
Guest:You know, I have pains in my legs.
Guest:So we went to the doctor, and it was a thing called neuropathy, which meant that, you know, her immune system was really low and fucked up.
Guest:It was causing nerve damage in her body.
Guest:So that was the beginning of it.
Guest:And...
Guest:And it was a beginning of such a long and fucking painful deterioration.
Guest:It was a slow, fucked up time for me back then.
Guest:How long did that take?
Guest:I think she started getting sick.
Guest:I think it was about a five-year period of...
Guest:Slow deterioration and then like these rapid fucked up with she had pneumonia like 15 times You know she was in the hospital and she was given her last rights a few times You know and and then survived it and then came back It was just a brutal brutal time and you were her primary caregiver.
Guest:I was her caregiver You know at some point in their market clicked in me that that this that
Guest:I never thought of leaving her.
Guest:I never even considered it.
Guest:Today, it's the greatest decision I've made.
Guest:It's the greatest thing I've ever done was care for my wife.
Guest:I'll never do anything that great again.
Guest:Fucking HBO specials, whatever you want to give me.
Guest:Nothing will be better than that because it was such a deep reckoning within myself that I am not a piece of shit.
Guest:You know, that I don't deserve to stick needles in my arm.
Guest:You know, I am a good person.
Guest:Look what I'm capable of.
Guest:I'm capable of deep love and commitment, you know?
Guest:And, you know, I just, that was my whole life, was taking care of her.
Guest:And there were a lot of laughs.
Guest:Were you there when she died?
Guest:Yeah, I was there.
Guest:Actually, I was not in the room when she died.
Guest:Never left her side.
Guest:That particular night, her mother had been in town the night she died.
Guest:And her mother wanted to stay with her alone.
Guest:And I left her there, and I went home, and that's the night that she passed away.
Guest:So I kind of, you know, it's not a very big deal to me.
Guest:I know what I did for her and having to be there right at the left.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Marc:I remember you shared a story once about taking the motorcycle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's on The Moth, you know, and it's on the internet.
Guest:It's called The Moth.
Guest:That's where people can hear it if they're interested because I do love when people hear that story because they, you know, and you may be the same way.
Guest:I think you are.
Guest:and i don't know if other comics are but let's say someone comes up to you and says to you mark you know you did that thing about your dad dying or your aunt dying or your cousin and it helped me get over my aunt's death my mother yeah sure yeah that can be more meaningful than fucking standing ovation oh absolutely anywhere absolutely and a lot of people miss that
Guest:The moth gives me that.
Guest:People come up to me and tell me what it meant to them.
Guest:The story goes, and I'll do it because it's a little bit longer than I'd like.
Guest:During her last days, she was in the hospice.
Guest:I had just gotten a Harley, my first Harley.
Guest:I saw you drive up on one.
Guest:Yeah, I rode up on one today.
Guest:I love motorcycles.
Guest:and you know she wanted to well she came out and saw it and she got upset you know like she was angry at me and she went back inside all pissed off so i'm like and this gay dude that worked there gets a whole nother group of people that without them i wouldn't be alive gay men saved my ass too how's that just true aid you know all the aids organizations all all all run by gays the hospices the
Guest:The nurses were all gay guys.
Guest:They got some deep well of love within them.
Guest:It's just incredible.
Guest:Like my friends, when I'm going to go to my neighbor, hey, Frank, I have HIV.
Guest:What is that, a cable channel?
Guest:They wouldn't even know what the fuck it is.
Guest:That kind of thing.
Marc:Do you think they would have ostracized you even if they did know what it was?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I got one friend who's actually a made guy, a gangster.
Guest:We're still best with...
Guest:for instance with children.
Guest:He knows all about it.
Guest:He would do research for me and call me, Mike, I'm reading about this thing.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So the stereotype of that world is also, they're human beings too.
Guest:Some of them are just violent, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But anyway, so I learned so much about stuff.
Guest:And so she goes inside and she was pissed off that I had the motorcycle.
Guest:So this guy, this gay guy, I forget his name.
Guest:Let's call him Bill.
Guest:I said, why is she so mad at me?
Guest:He goes, well, she just feels like you're moving on with your life and you don't love her anymore.
Guest:Like you have this motorcycle.
Guest:And he said, you don't need her anymore.
Guest:Like that was a strange thing.
Guest:And I realized how much I did need her.
Guest:Like, I loved her.
Guest:Like, she was my best friend.
Guest:And so what I did was I went home and I brought some of my work shirts back to the hospice.
Guest:And I brought them into her room and said... Where were you working?
Guest:I was working for the health department.
Guest:I was an educator, a health educator.
Guest:I'd go out and do condom demonstrations.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's how I started comedy, too.
Guest:We'll get into that after.
Guest:How I realized how funny I was with the most brutal shit.
Guest:So...
Guest:So I bring these shirts, these work shirts into her.
Guest:And she was Sicilian.
Guest:So I said, Franny, my shirts are a fucking mess.
Guest:I need you to iron them for me.
Guest:She got all, fuck you.
Guest:I'm in a hospice.
Guest:So I left.
Guest:I come back 20 minutes later.
Guest:All the shirts are ironed.
Guest:She got up.
Guest:And then she's like, where's the motorcycle?
Guest:Now she's excited about it.
Guest:And that guy was right.
Guest:She just wanted to know that...
Guest:I still needed her.
Guest:Like I loved her.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like people aren't dying.
Guest:They don't know they're dying.
Guest:They feel I'm alive.
Guest:Dying is an event.
Guest:They pass away at one moment.
Guest:Up until that moment, they are alive and they want to be loved and they want to give and share, you know, in that case.
Guest:So now she wants to see that I take her out.
Guest:She wants to sit on it.
Guest:I put her on it.
Guest:She wants to start it up.
Guest:Now she's wearing fucking a paper dress, you know, essentially.
Guest:She's got her morphine pole next to her.
Guest:And she's sitting on this Harley.
Guest:And I'm worried about her burning her frigging leg off.
Guest:So she says, can you just take me for a little ride around the parking lot?
Guest:I'm like, no, I can't.
Guest:I'm thinking, what the fuck?
Guest:You got a drift IV with her?
Guest:Then it just hit me.
Guest:I'm like, no, you have to.
Guest:You're in this moment.
Guest:You have to do this motorcycle ride.
Guest:It's dangerous.
Guest:What if she falls?
Guest:One day I'm telling this story.
Guest:My wife, she almost died of AIDS, but then I killed her on my Harley.
Guest:She fell off and banged her fucking head.
Guest:That's a fucked up story.
Guest:That's when I realized, fuck it.
Guest:Fuck, of course, yeah.
Guest:So I'm riding around the hospice parking lot, and then my friend comes barreling in this van who's a cripple in a wheelchair, laughing.
Guest:What do you do?
Guest:And I said, I'm riding Franny around.
Guest:Franny's like, can we just go out on the street a little bit?
Guest:Where's the morphine drip?
Guest:She holding it?
Guest:She's holding the pole.
Guest:Mark, it was a pole with four wheels on the bottom.
Guest:And we're riding around this hospice.
Guest:You could hear the goddamn wheels changling and banging.
Guest:It was insane.
Guest:And then I passed the front door and all these nurses are standing out front and they're all crying.
Guest:They're watching us and they're fucking crying.
Guest:And I didn't know why they were crying.
Guest:I was like, why are they crying?
Guest:I didn't get what they were seeing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't know because I was just in it.
Guest:I was living it.
Guest:I knew my wife who had suffered the suffering that she had been through in her life.
Guest:She was a prostitute.
Guest:She was a fucking heroin addict.
Guest:She was beaten by fucking pimps.
Guest:This is her past.
Guest:And then she ends up with this AIDS and she's dying.
Guest:And all she wants is a fucking ride on my motorcycle.
Guest:What a gift.
Guest:So next thing you know, we're on I-95.
Guest:Because women, it's never enough for them.
Guest:We're on 95.
Guest:She unhooks the fucking pole and she's holding the morphine bag over her head with her gown on that's flying up in the air.
Guest:So you can see her entire fucking naked, bony body with the morphine bag whipping in the wind.
Guest:And we're passing by these guys in their Lamborghinis and shit.
Guest:And I'm looking at them like, what the fuck?
Guest:How do these people?
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:What kind of life are you living?
Guest:Look at me.
Guest:I'm on top of the world here.
Guest:And, you know, that was the last thing I did with her, you know?
Guest:And, you know, I feel so blessed and lucky.
Guest:Like, you know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I feel like that was... You can't ask for a better moment in a memory than that, you know?
Guest:Yeah, it's heavy, man.
Guest:Yeah, it's beautiful stuff, you know?
Guest:And it's what we all...
Guest:You know, the biggest things that we're afraid of really can be the most beautiful if you're looking right in the fucking eye and you don't flinch because there's something really beautiful behind it, you know?
Guest:Guys like us, you got a complicated exterior, you know, the anger and stuff.
Guest:Defensive, I'm very defensive.
Guest:When I meet people that are defensive, I've learned, what are they defending?
Guest:There's got to be something good in there that they're defending, you know?
Guest:It's not a pile of dog shit in there, or else they wouldn't be defending it.
Guest:See, people who aren't defensive, because they have nothing to defend.
Guest:They're scumbags.
Guest:Think about it.
Guest:People are all nice and open.
Guest:Beware of someone who's very committal, completely committal.
Guest:You're afraid of commitment, they say to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I tell them about my wife.
Guest:I go, yeah, I'm sorry.
Guest:I'm a little afraid of fucking commitment, because that means I've got to stay until I fucking bury you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You see?
Guest:Because I'm not going to run away from it.
Guest:I know myself.
Guest:So people who are afraid of commitment, they're good people.
Guest:That means they know what commitment is.
Guest:Do you feel that way about comedy?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I mean, in terms of what?
Guest:Like being committed?
Yeah.
Guest:Mark, it saved my life, man.
Guest:After Franny died, you know, my dad, who we made amends, me and my father made this beautiful amends that we became really good friends.
Guest:I gotta tell you this fucking story.
Guest:This is when Franny's still alive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so...
Guest:And I got to be honest, part of this having AIDS, and I don't have AIDS, but HIV, my wife dying of AIDS, my father, the drugs, there's this one part of it that I love that I can look at anybody and say, really?
Guest:Is that your fucking problem, you little fag?
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:What do you got, herpes, you fucking cunt?
Guest:Get a real disease, you know?
Guest:I get hepatitis.
Guest:Give me your hepatitis, I'll give you what I got, you know?
Guest:There's something cool about that, having the worst fucking disease, you know?
Guest:It's like I'm even bragging about that.
Guest:I'm in a hospital.
Guest:I ended up with pneumonia.
Guest:It had nothing to do with AIDS, HIV.
Guest:I ended up with this double pneumonia.
Guest:My wife's still alive.
Guest:She's home, very sick.
Guest:I'm fucking worried about her landing in the hospital.
Guest:She decides to get in the car and drive to come visit me.
Guest:Crashes the car on I-95.
Guest:So they tell me, your wife's in the emergency room downstairs of the hospital that I'm in with pneumonia.
Guest:My wife's down there.
Guest:My wife, who's dying of AIDS, is in the hospital from a car wreck that flipped over.
Guest:Then the phone rings again.
Guest:My mother tells me, Daddy, you got a brain tumor.
Guest:This is all in a 10-minute fucking period.
Guest:This is a bad day.
Guest:This is a bad day.
Guest:So as soon as I'm having a rough day, tell me about it.
Guest:Let me fucking hear about your bad day.
Guest:I love having that power.
Guest:I don't know why.
Guest:I just do.
Guest:So what do I do, Mark?
Guest:I get up out of the bed, and I was done.
Guest:I was snapped.
Guest:I took my robe off and turned it backwards so my balls would be hanging out.
Guest:And I walked myself into the elevator like that to go down to the visit, see what's going on with my wife.
Guest:I just wanted to show everyone my nuts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like that was how I decided to deal with all that pain.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:Here are my balls.
Guest:Something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:My dad, my father died about eight months after my wife.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was still working for the health department.
Guest:I was doing the education.
Guest:Is that a volunteer job?
Guest:No, no, I was being paid.
Guest:I was a health educator.
Guest:I would do HIV prevention.
Guest:But no, I didn't... You did that as a service, though?
Marc:No, no, it was my job.
Marc:I got paid.
Marc:Yeah, no, but I mean, what led you to that?
Marc:You felt you had to give something back?
Guest:You know, I... Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Just like I'm talking now, I'm a good-looking fucking, you know, I mean, I'm getting older, but I'm a young, heterosexual, good-looking guy, whatever.
Guest:I don't have to tell anybody about my HIV.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:If I don't, who's gonna?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If I don't talk about it, who's gonna talk about it?
Guest:You know, I don't know why I did it.
Guest:I don't know why.
Marc:But you would go out as somebody with HIV?
Guest:Not all the time.
Guest:Most of the time, I would just be out there as a representative of the health department.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I would do HIV prevention.
Guest:And this is how I realized that I was funny and that I can be funny with the truth.
Guest:I'm telling people about, here's how you can't get AIDS.
Guest:And it was important for me people realize how you can't get it so that they wouldn't be discriminating against people who had it because of my experience.
Guest:So the people would raise their hand and say, well, can you get AIDS from a dentist?
Guest:And I would say, yeah, if he fucks you in the ass without a condom.
Guest:Like, that would be my reaction.
Guest:And I'm not, you're not supposed to say that.
Guest:These are kids?
Guest:These are middle, yeah, yeah, kids and adults, whatever.
Guest:Most of the kids were cool.
Guest:It was the adults that were idiots, you know?
Guest:This one lady says, what about a bloody doorknob?
Guest:What about a bloody, could you get AIDS?
Guest:Yeah, if you jam it up your ass, the doorknob.
Guest:Like, that's how I would react.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And that's when I knew I could, wow, I could be funny.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Everyone would laugh except for the person who asked the question.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:They'd write a shitty letter about you.
Guest:Oh, forget it.
Guest:The letter writers are the best.
Guest:Only white people write letters.
Guest:You've noticed, right?
Guest:You ever get a black person write a letter to you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yo, Mog, man, she was fucked up.
Guest:You hurt my feelings.
Guest:Don't worry.
Guest:There's some white fucking cunt.
Guest:I'm sick of being white.
Guest:Now, that was ridiculous.
Guest:Let me not say that.
Guest:But anyway.
Guest:So that's how you learned how to be funny?
Guest:I think that's where I realized I could be funny with a large group of people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know.
Guest:so uh your father my dad yeah my dad died not long after my life so it was a bad time and i wanted to um i really wanted to end my life at that point to be totally honest with you yeah um i wasn't angry i wasn't i just decided to kill myself i made it i remember
Marc:You didn't see it on the other way out.
Marc:You weren't sure when you were going to do it or how you were going to do it.
Guest:No, I knew I was going to do it after my father's funeral.
Guest:I'm going to pack it in.
Guest:Drugs, of course.
Guest:I shoot myself.
Guest:You were just going to go OD?
Guest:Heroin, yes.
Guest:These people shoot themselves, jump off buildings.
Guest:Are you ready to fucking mind?
Guest:Take five, six, ten Oxycontins.
Guest:You're done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nice and easy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you had a plan?
Guest:Plan, yeah.
Guest:I'm going to go home, do my dad's funeral, and then I'm going to pack it in.
Guest:And it was a sense of relief that I had finally made the decision.
Guest:I went to a Buddhist temple during my wife's when she was alive.
Guest:What the fuck did I go there for?
Guest:And they say, you want to meet the llama?
Guest:So I thought they had an animal.
Guest:I had no idea what a llama was.
Guest:I thought there was a frigging animal in the backyard.
Guest:So I'm waiting to go see one of the llamas.
Guest:This little old Tibetan man sitting in a room.
Guest:They go and they said, kneel down in front of him.
Guest:I kneel down.
Guest:He put his hands out.
Guest:He took my hands in his, put his forehead against mine and said, blah, blah, blah, you know, some Tibetan stuff.
Guest:And I remember this feeling.
Guest:I go, wow, it felt really nice to be around this person.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Left.
Guest:The night that my father died, I got on the plane, sat down in my seat, and that's when I was saying, okay, I'm done.
Guest:Packing it in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Got up to go take a piss.
Guest:That little Tibetan monk was sitting in the back of the plane.
Guest:Swear to God.
Guest:I was fucking pissed.
Guest:I was pissed.
Guest:I was like, fuck you.
Guest:No.
Guest:And I still had believed in God at that point, like there was a being up there, and I was like, fuck you, God.
Guest:This was a plan.
Guest:He put that guy there.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Oh, you want to keep me alive so I can have more pain, you fucking prick?
Marc:Because this... But that's how you read it, that that was a sign.
Guest:A sign, yeah.
Guest:A sign that, okay, you can't kill yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it pissed me off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then, you know, I look back now and I'm glad that the man was there.
Guest:And he put his hands up just like he did when he met me, like as if he was there.
Guest:He remembered you?
Guest:Well, no, well, I don't know.
Guest:He looked at me and put his hands out just like he did when I met him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I took his hands and put my forehead against his.
Guest:On the plane?
Guest:On the plane.
Guest:On the plane.
Guest:On the plane.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:And I went, buried my father, went back to South Florida, and did my first open mic about two weeks later.
Guest:Instead of suicide.
Guest:Yeah, instead of killing myself, I became a stand-up.
Guest:I think that's a way a lot of us start.
Guest:Yeah, I think so, yeah.
Guest:I think my story's very common.
Guest:And that's how I started, you know.
Guest:So when I met you, I was just into it.
Guest:And the intensity and the anger was probably fear and anxiety, but I wanted to be a great comic.
Guest:Like, I wanted to be good at it.
Guest:I want to be good and original.
Guest:And that comic strip thing I told you about, I told the owner, I said, thank you for allowing me to come here, but I'm not coming back until I'm good enough.
Guest:And I'm only playing here when Lucian approves me.
Guest:Not that I believed Lucian was anything special, but I knew that was the right way to do it.
Guest:And so it wasn't a construction job.
Guest:It wasn't like, hey, put my son on the show.
Guest:I knew it was an art that I wanted to be good at.
Guest:And the only way I'm going to get good at is not through nepotism or through some wise guy muscling me in.
Guest:I'm going to get good at it by getting stage time.
Guest:And I found the shittiest fucking club I could in New York, a comedy club.
Guest:And I went up there five to seven times a night.
Guest:A fucking night.
Marc:Because they kept bringing people in.
Guest:They had seven or eight shows there a night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would be on every single one of them for two years straight.
Guest:And then in 07, I got picked to go to Aspen, and it spiraled to where I am now, which is, I don't know, but it's fun, you know.
Marc:Well, no, I mean, it's interesting how it came about because you weren't the guy that necessarily was doing the road and worked in the middle.
Marc:Never did it.
Marc:Or hosted and went up through the road.
Marc:You didn't come up through the alternative rooms.
Marc:You just sort of disappeared.
Marc:You did the work in the worst clubs for no money, really.
Guest:never asked never fucking asked how much are you paying me i hate when comics do that new comics yeah i'll call new guys hey you want to do a show yeah yeah how much does it pay uh it pays fucking zero and then i hang up on them and find someone that don't ask how much it pays yeah we do this for free and we'll learn how to do it of course now when you okay so that means you get you get the call for aspen what do you got about 15 20 minutes
Marc:Because I was there with you.
Guest:I was on the show with you.
Guest:Yeah, I think, well, we did the moth together.
Guest:That's when he told that story.
Guest:I told the story about my wife dying, and you had a story about your wife pissed you off with the cookies.
Guest:Yeah, and she threw me out of the house.
Guest:She threw you out of some shit.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And you didn't want to follow my story.
Guest:You were like, God damn it.
Guest:And I wanted to say, Mark, I'm sorry my wife's died and yours is still alive.
Guest:You're even competitive with death, you fucking nut.
Guest:It was just a matter of fun.
Guest:I'm kidding.
Guest:That's all right.
Guest:I can take it.
Guest:I'm busting your butt.
Guest:Yeah, it's just like, you know, you took them deep and I'm going to be whining about my wife.
Marc:I had to spend the night in a hotel.
Marc:It's the end of the world.
Marc:Oh, God, that's great.
Marc:That story was horrible.
Marc:That was the end of my marriage, that story.
Marc:So your wife died.
Marc:My wife left me for good after I told that story.
Marc:The night after that story, Mike, I went to bed with her and I asked her 10 or 12 times, can I do it?
Marc:She goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I tell the story.
Marc:I get on stage.
Marc:She goes, how the fuck could you tell that story in front of everybody?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that night I had a dream that I was alone.
Marc:And sure enough, that was the night where she stopped fucking loving me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So that died.
Marc:But it's not comparable.
Guest:No, no, it is.
Guest:You got it worse than me.
Guest:Your wife chose not to be with you anymore.
Guest:Mine didn't.
Guest:Mine, she died.
Guest:My wife's dead.
Guest:That's actually better.
Guest:But you still got HIV, so you're ahead.
Guest:Oh, jeez.
Guest:You're a Jew.
Guest:You're a fucking Jew.
Guest:What would you rather have?
Guest:Would you rather be a Jew?
Guest:You're a Catholic with HIV.
Guest:Let me tell you something.
Guest:I'll take HIV.
Guest:over being a Jew any fucking day.
Guest:Oh, but I don't even know how to take that.
Guest:A black or a Jew.
Guest:Oh, I don't even know how to take that.
Guest:I'm kidding, I'm joking.
Guest:Come on, it's comedy.
Marc:But now, okay, so before we get to the last comments.
Guest:Oh, by the way, I don't have, I've never taken a pill.
Guest:I have no viral activity.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I've been, they diagnosed me 22 years ago
Guest:uh with with the hiv antibodies but they i have no virus so they're taking your fucking blood to make a vaccine or what they take my blood every year or two and they they uh are looking for why i'm so healthy yeah and it's not just me there's a you know a small small percentage of people who are like me what are they figured out
Guest:They don't know.
Guest:They're thinking it's genetics.
Guest:It's a different strain of the actual virus, perhaps.
Guest:It's complicated stuff.
Guest:But all I know is, you know, my health is perfect.
Guest:I'll probably never die from the virus.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's pretty much where I'm at at this point.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:It's a miracle.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Definitely.
Guest:I mean, you know.
Marc:Good for you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But the amazing thing about you and Faith in light of all this and in discussing this with me and what you've been through is that what I'm impressed with and I think is a great thing, despite what anyone might think of you, the amount you give back to the community is incredible.
Marc:I mean, we're here at a recovery housing community for people who are getting off drugs, getting off booze, in between things.
Marc:you know, the bad life and the good life, you know, trying to stay sober.
Marc:And you had connections here.
Marc:You're affiliated with the recovery community here.
Marc:And you're going to do a show this afternoon at another facility for people in recovery.
Marc:And you do that frequently.
Marc:And it's part of your fucking, your heart and your gift is that you feel the need to give back.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mark, when you give is the only time you can see that you have anything.
Guest:You don't know you have until you're giving it to people.
Guest:What's the joy in taking?
Guest:I can't even imagine what that would be like.
Guest:And it's not that I'm trying to be a virtuous or a good person.
Guest:It works for me.
Guest:Helping people works.
Guest:It makes you feel better.
Guest:If you're looking for happiness, go help somebody.
Guest:I promise you it'll work.
Guest:I mean, that's why I do it.
Guest:I don't do it to be a good person.
Guest:I do it because it makes me fucking happy.
Guest:You know, and I have something to give.
Guest:And I have a lot inside of me.
Guest:My life is very improbable.
Guest:Me being alive right now is a very, very improbable thing.
Guest:You know, based on the drugs, the crime, the people I was around.
Guest:I was five minutes from murders that happened.
Guest:I was on my way there.
Guest:And if I would have made the wrong turn, you know what I mean?
Guest:I've been there.
Guest:I've been through a lot of shit.
Guest:And, you know, so of course I give to people.
Guest:I'm happy to be alive.
Marc:And you still have relationships with the old friends.
Marc:You still know killers.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:I'm the guy that I don't have to act like a tough guy, but I can go eat dinner at Ray O's whenever the fuck I want.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I don't have the burden of going around acting like a big shit.
Guest:I don't, none of that.
Guest:And you don't know anybody.
Guest:I don't know anybody, anything.
Guest:All my friends know what I'm about.
Guest:They love me the way I am.
Guest:You know, it's pretty good.
Marc:Now, let's talk about the last Comic Standing experience.
Guest:Now, how did that come about?
Guest:That was worse than being diagnosed with the virus.
Guest:I mean, that... You remember when I told you my wife died of AIDS?
Guest:Yeah, being on that show was just as painful.
Guest:Nah.
Guest:um yeah you know god i mean i'm you know can you can you really be grateful to somebody and hate them at the same time like yeah you know what i mean that's how i feel about the show like every relationship i've ever had exactly you know it's like i'm glad like i first of all i went into it not expecting to even get past the first round of it i i
Guest:I decided to do the audition like five minutes before.
Guest:It was such a struggle in my head because the show is such garbage.
Guest:The idea of competitive comedy is just ridiculous.
Guest:I had no respect for the show.
Guest:Never liked it.
Guest:But I did it anyway.
Guest:I went and did it.
Guest:And...
Guest:It just snowballed, and I got to a point where I thought, holy shit, I might actually be able to win, and I might be able to get a couple hundred grand, and I need it.
Guest:And so it was a great experience, and at the same time, not a great experience.
Guest:And now I'm out on tour with people who have no idea what I'm about, and I want to talk about stuff...
Guest:that is real to me.
Guest:I don't like when people say, I tell the truth.
Guest:I tell my truth the best I can.
Guest:Jim Gaffigan tells his truth.
Guest:These guys that don't do what I do, guys, we're similar.
Guest:We look for humor in darkness.
Guest:And that's who everyone is.
Guest:So I can respect across the board what people do as long as they're being true to themselves.
Guest:And these people come out to these shows, they are looking for
Guest:I don't know what they're looking for, but it's not me.
Guest:Every night's a struggle.
Marc:Are you making a little money?
Guest:Yeah, I'm making a little money, and I got just making some money, really.
Guest:I think that's the best thing.
Marc:How do you see the evolution?
Marc:Because I understand the frustration.
Marc:because I'm back in regular comedy clubs.
Marc:I've got people that come see me, but there's still a lot of people that don't.
Marc:There's half of me that I want to be able to entertain those people because I believe that's part of our job.
Marc:But there's another part of me that's like, well, if they're all my people, they're going to know everything anyways.
Marc:And I don't know how to handle that amount of love either.
Marc:So I think the real trick for people like you and I is that the challenge is to tell this truth that you want to.
Marc:You're understanding the limitations of audiences in terms of receiving what you do.
Marc:But also there's also the challenge of making them understand and bringing them around.
Marc:And there's a way to do that.
Guest:Am I right?
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:You're totally right.
Guest:And you bring up a good point as to what I've been going through.
Guest:It's that you put in a lot of effort to get into people who aren't with you.
Guest:But you feel like you've got to shortchange yourself.
Guest:Yeah, one night you feel like, all right, I got to, you know, like, okay.
Guest:I think that it takes a lot of creativity to put...
Guest:ideas about death and about sickness into comedy.
Guest:It takes a lot of creativity to get it into an audience that has no experience with it.
Guest:You know most Americans are hiding.
Guest:They're just coming for comedy.
Guest:Dude, they're hiding.
Marc:But don't you find when you make judgments even like that, that there's an assumption that everybody's in denial and that everybody's fucked up, they just don't know they're fucked up, that that in and of itself is sort of, it's a way to interpret your own insecurities.
Marc:It could be.
Marc:Yeah, it's confusing.
Marc:Because I do that too.
Marc:But I insisted that everybody had to be as dark as me.
Marc:They just weren't letting themselves.
Guest:I agree with you on that too.
Guest:Here's what I'll say.
Guest:I think that...
Guest:Our job is to create laughter.
Guest:But my deeper job, Mark, is to like why I'm talking to you today about all of this stuff that really is very private and very, you know, I'm afraid I'm worried now.
Guest:You know, some asshole that heard this is going to get mad at me for something.
Guest:I hope he dies of AIDS like that'll happen.
Guest:Like, you know, on the Internet, people do that.
Guest:So that's a risk you take when you open up your heart and say what's going on.
Guest:But this is part of my job as a human being today, not a comic, not anybody else, is to let people out there know that they're not alone.
Guest:That we feel such deep fucking pain.
Marc:Because I think that's what's missing in the dialogue, that as we get further away from each other, technology, judgment, isolation, whatever, that the actual human experience is rare.
Marc:And I think that we're all built to handle and accept this stuff, and it enriches our lives.
Marc:With that feeling of listening to somebody else's pain, for most people, the first reaction most people have is like, oh, well, yeah, good luck with that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Too much information.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But the truth of the matter is we're equipped.
Marc:Not only are we equipped, but our hearts, the only way they can grow is by being present for somebody else's pain, like you were saying.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:It's taken me a long time to learn that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now that obviously is not everyone's idea of a night out.
Marc:So I think the experience that you were talking about having at Eugene's room is that there are audiences, there are audiences for this.
Marc:But the problem with people like me and you, despite our past with drugs or whatever, is that we grew up in fucking shithole comedy clubs and there's part of us that thinks that we gotta win there.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:There you go.
Marc:I got to conquer the mainstream rooms.
Guest:Or just the comedy club.
Marc:This is part of my job is to fight this fight.
Marc:And I tell you, I go out and sometimes I get problems in the room.
Marc:And I handle it very diplomatically now because I understand that, look, I'm certainly not for everybody.
Marc:If there's any indication or anything I've learned from my career is that you can't be for everybody.
Marc:And there's no way I'm going to be.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So if someone doesn't like me, and Stuart Lee, a British comic, told me about this too, I actually sometimes feel bad for them.
Marc:I'm like, I'm just not what you expect.
Marc:And I'm sorry about that.
Marc:You go to another night, maybe you get what you want.
Marc:So I've tried to sort of be open to that and be diplomatic with these people.
Marc:But some people just aren't going to find this funny no matter what.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But I think the type of truth that you're purveying and what you want to share with people is genuine and real.
Marc:And the trick is how do we grow along those lines and not have to keep our guard up because we're trained in comedy clubs and we're trained to judge people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's a tricky thing and we have to do it.
Guest:And, you know, Mark, at the end of it all, if I believe that I have something that is right to say –
Guest:then I need to be comfortable with that and just say it and not say it with the anger of, hey, you motherfuckers, if I really believe that they are lost and don't understand, then I should have compassion for them, not anger.
Guest:If I really believe that, like a Christian, if you really believe I'm going to hell for whatever I did, then why are you so angry at me?
Guest:The anger denotes that you're not sure.
Marc:Yeah, but I also think that some of the things we want to share are not inherently funny.
Marc:And is there a way to make them funny?
Marc:But it doesn't mean they're not full of heart and full of impact and bring a great feeling.
Marc:It's something as you move into a more theatrical world.
Guest:Yeah, one-man shows that you've done several of.
Guest:You did one, too.
Guest:I did one a couple years ago.
Guest:It was just too goddamn painful.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, for me, I'm redoing it soon again, and I'm going to not lighten it up, but I'm going to... I think I'm different now.
Guest:Well, that changed.
Guest:I think I've changed.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I've changed.
Guest:The more distance you get from something.
Guest:Yes, I have distance from it, and I realize the goal.
Guest:I want to tell people my wife died of AIDS, but I want to tell them it so that they go, okay...
Guest:that guy lost something very deeply.
Guest:His wife suffered very deeply.
Guest:I have lost something very deeply.
Guest:I'm going to suffer down the road.
Guest:We're all together in this thing.
Guest:That's the goal of it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:As opposed...
Guest:it's just a difficult thing, but I wish I would, I wish I would, I crave just wanting to have a mediocrity life sometimes.
Guest:Like I wish I could aspire to be just bait, you know, why, why?
Guest:Like how many times you've wanted to, why?
Guest:I'm not, I don't want this blessing of seeing things.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You know, shut it off.
Guest:Turn it off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Take it back.
Guest:I don't want this gift.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it's like a weird thing.
Marc:My girl says, why can't you just be?
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:Who the fuck knows how to do this?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That is... You are just being.
Guest:Yeah, this is how I am being.
Guest:This is Mark Maron.
Guest:He's a fucking... You're looking for shit, but you've changed a whole lot, I think, over the years.
Guest:Yeah, your life will humble you, Mike.
Guest:You just seem very... Yeah, you calm down, and that's good.
Guest:You know, it's good.
Guest:And God, you know, I just... I want to make people laugh, but I want people to know that they're not alone with suffering, and that they can survive anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I believe that I've...
Guest:I've been to the point where there is the worst part of life.
Guest:Like I've been to it.
Guest:I really feel that I've been there.
Guest:No doubt.
Guest:At that moment of when you're told you're going to die.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't even fucking live yet.
Guest:And you tell me I'm going to die.
Guest:I just got off drugs, man.
Guest:I'm 20 years old.
Guest:I'm going to die?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, not only are you going to die, you're going to be shamed and you have this ugly fucking disease that the fags and the drug addicts get and all the stigma that was with it.
Guest:I know what it feels like to suffer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and I love when a black dude or a gay, you don't know what it's like, motherfucker.
Guest:I do know what it's like.
Guest:I know I'm not black.
Guest:I know I'm not being... Here's what my pain is.
Guest:Isn't it the same?
Guest:And your pain is the same as mine.
Guest:You can relate to me.
Guest:It's not like you can't relate to me because I'm talking about a certain type of disease.
Marc:We all relate.
Marc:The menu of suffering is very small when it comes just down to the frequency of suffering.
Marc:It's a frequency that runs all through human life because of our self-awareness.
Marc:But judging someone suffering is less or more.
Marc:There is something to that.
Marc:There are certain people that celebrate self-pity over bullshit, and I think you address that.
Marc:But to do that without empathy is morally reprehensible.
Guest:I think so.
Marc:To put your problems above other people's when they're really not that big a problem.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's very selfish.
Marc:But I think that everybody gets humbled eventually.
Marc:And I certainly appreciate what you're doing.
Marc:And this is very moving for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I wanted to do it with you.
Guest:I'll be honest with you.
Guest:I thought about where would I want to talk about this?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:honestly it was you yeah because i see you as the kind of dude that's gonna get this shit and you're not you get it you're not yeah fuck there's a hundred other guys that would be trying to crack jokes about shit like a fucking child yeah you know this isn't about that yeah and and we're comics and i think this is we had enough laughs today for me yeah you know what i mean based on yeah
Guest:And whoever's listening to this, fuck you.
Guest:This is what you get.
Guest:Like the shit, the topics that Mark and I just covered in the last hour.
Guest:If you got one giggle out of it, you motherfucker, it's more than you would have got on your own with this shit.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like you got enough laughs.
Guest:We got enough laughs here today.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:You know, based on what we talked about.
Marc:I feel great.
Marc:I'm glad you're healthy and thanks for doing this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thank you, brother.
Marc:Okay, man.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, that's it, folks.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:I hope that you enjoyed that and got something out of it and were moved by it.
Marc:And how do you outro a show like that?
Marc:It was great talking to Mike.
Marc:I'm glad he's doing well.
Marc:As always, go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get on the email list.
Marc:Get yourself one of the new American Apparel t-shirts with the cats and the me screaming on it.
Marc:Get some justcoffee.coop.
Marc:Also, go to punchwinemagazine.com for all your up-to-date comedy needs.
Marc:The top ten list of the top ten comedy CDs is out, so check that out.
Marc:And if you can find it in your heart, kick in a donation.
Marc:As we said at the beginning of the show, $250 super premium gets you one of each T-shirt, three of my CDs, the very special exclusive best of WTF volume one CD, some stickers, a postcard, access to all the premium apps.
Marc:And also there's the iPhone option.
Marc:If you get the WTF iPhone app, you also get access to the newest premium and go to WTF pod shop and pick up that new premium.
Marc:Eugene Merman won exceptionally funny.
Marc:Thanks for listening.
Marc:I hope you liked it.
Marc:I've got to go do Union Hall.
Marc:This should be up the day that I'm doing it.
Marc:Hope I'm not sick.
Marc:But I'm better off than some people.
Marc:But that's the wrong way of saying it.
Marc:I'm not as bad off.
Marc:I should be grateful.
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'll talk to you later.