Episode 1299 - Peter Dinklage
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i am uh mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it how are you doing i'm getting through it those of you who know know i've uh got the uh the covid
Marc:I'm about a week in, a week into it.
Marc:And fortunately, I'm very grateful.
Marc:It's been a mild but annoying experience.
Marc:It's not like anything I've had, I don't think, in my body before.
Marc:It's similar, but there's some weirdness going on in my head.
Marc:I've not had a temperature.
Marc:I have not had aches or pains.
Marc:I have not had night sweats.
Marc:I've not had trouble breathing.
Marc:I'm very fortunate.
Marc:in all that and i will thank the vaccine for those benefits of having this and not being too horribly compromised though i am going crazy
Marc:I guess I'm going to do a straight-up 10-day lockdown quarantine for myself.
Marc:I'm already what?
Marc:So today's Sunday.
Marc:I'm going to test this morning being Monday.
Marc:We'll see how that goes.
Marc:I do want to try to make my shows this weekend, but I can't really do that unless I get a negative test.
Marc:So it's stressful for me because the timing of this is not appropriate.
Marc:I'm mad that I got it and I can't quite shake that anger.
Marc:Even though millions of people have gotten it, triple-vaxxed people, vaxxed people, I still somehow think it picked me.
Marc:And that's just the way my fucking brain works.
Marc:I'm learning a lot about my brain over this weird week of true quarantine.
Marc:Let me get into this for a second.
Marc:Peter Dinklage is here on the show.
Marc:And most of you, I don't know, everyone knows him.
Marc:He's in this new Cyrano movie, which he did as a stage musical that was written and directed by his wife, Erica Schmidt.
Marc:And he's here to talk about that and other things.
Marc:Yeah, I've been busy during this quarantine.
Marc:I've been building things.
Marc:I put a smoker together.
Marc:Some company sent me a smoker.
Marc:It's pressuring me.
Marc:Oklahoma Joe sent me a Bronco.
Marc:I mean, they didn't pay for that plug, but I'm excited about it.
Marc:They asked me if I wanted one.
Marc:I said, yeah, but now I'm going to have to up my game.
Marc:No more Traeger.
Marc:Well, I have the Traeger to do that Traeger cooking.
Marc:That's just a pellet grill.
Marc:It's basically a convection oven run on smoke from wood pellets that you don't have to manage.
Marc:Really, it's got a temperature.
Marc:It's hooked up to the Wi-Fi.
Marc:This fucking smoker is a real smoker.
Marc:So now I've got to figure out how to do that.
Marc:I've got to season the thing with coals, and I've got to figure out how to work those vents and do that thing.
Marc:I don't know what I'm going to start with.
Marc:I don't know when I'm going to start.
Marc:I can't leave the house.
Marc:So it's not immediately...
Marc:But I'm excited about it.
Marc:I put it all together calmly, focused.
Marc:Yes, I did it.
Marc:I also watched both versions of West Side Story.
Marc:I watched the new West Side Story because I got a screener of it.
Marc:And it's spectacular.
Marc:And I don't remember the old one.
Marc:When I watched the new one, I knew a lot of the songs just because they're kind of in your genetic makeup.
Marc:Somehow, if you lived a certain life, I don't know which life it is, but I would say that a lot of people who listen to this probably know at least four or five of the songs from West Side Story without remembering whether or not they actually saw the movie.
Marc:I believe I saw it when I was a young kid, but the new one's just great.
Marc:And I watched them.
Marc:I did sort of a side-by-side thing to see what Spielberg brought to it and what Tony Kushner brought to it as the writer, reworking that story or adding to the story or deepening the story by infusing a class element into it and also a race element into it that was sort of broader and deeper than the one that was in the original.
Marc:And obviously in the new one, no brownface.
Marc:But the interesting one of the interesting decisions, I guess, I don't know who made it, was that a lot of the new one is actually in Spanish and there's no subtitles.
Marc:So deal with it, white people.
Marc:But Kushner's script is outstanding.
Marc:And the way Spielberg shot it was beyond masterful.
Marc:There's no easy trick to do a musical.
Marc:And the original one was so spectacular.
Marc:Fucking colors.
Marc:Anyways, highly recommend it.
Marc:These are my COVID quarantine movie reviews.
Marc:I still, I got through about 15, 14 minutes of the new Macbeth.
Marc:I'll go back, but I just, I can't focus, man.
Marc:I can't follow it.
Marc:I mean, I get what's happening in the story, but I'm missing most of it because I'm just lost.
Marc:And that's just me.
Marc:And no matter how many of you tell me I got to hang in there, I don't know.
Marc:Denzel seems great in the first 10 minutes.
Marc:That's my review of Macbeth.
Marc:Look, if Cohen wants to come on, who is it, Ethan or Joel?
Marc:Joel.
Marc:If he wants to come on, I'll watch the whole thing and I'll memorize part of it.
Marc:If that Cohen brother wants to come on and talk about it.
Marc:Or his...
Marc:His partner, Francis McDormand.
Marc:Yeah, I'll memorize it.
Marc:I'll memorize parts of it.
Marc:I'll memorize the speech, right?
Marc:The famous speech.
Marc:There's got to be one.
Marc:I'll memorize it.
Marc:And I'll assess it deeply.
Marc:So I didn't get through that one.
Marc:I've been practicing guitar.
Marc:I've been cooking and monitoring my health, taking my temperature, checking my oxygen.
Marc:I've had no fever, I've had no aches, I've had no pains, but the dreams have been crazy.
Marc:I woke up in a panic a couple of times.
Marc:I'm just going to bed early and I usually wake up around 3 or 4 and it takes me about a half hour, 45 minutes to get to sleep, just spiraling.
Marc:And then I started thinking about like I was just in a dream and I woke up in a panic because I couldn't, you know, I didn't think I could save somebody from...
Marc:And, you know, I was screaming, but it was underwater.
Marc:And then I realized that, you know, when you when you scream or talk in a dream out into the real world, it's just it's muted and garbled and it doesn't make sense.
Marc:And you you feel like you're being held back when you realize that when you wake up to the sound of your own voice crying for help in a dream.
Marc:It's just this horrible.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's a horrible feeling.
Marc:It was horrible what was going on in the dream, but then realizing that there was no one in the room anyways that was going to help me.
Marc:But then waking up to that, to that noise and realizing that Sammy and Buster, Smushy and Booster were on the bed and that must have caused them some aggravation, but they weren't going to help me.
Marc:The being aloneness is sort of amplified here.
Marc:And for some reason outside of dreaming, I tend to wake up and start going over my life.
Marc:Going over my life in the middle of the night.
Marc:As people I know pass away and as I sort of seemingly successfully fight an illness that has been terrifying to all of us for two years, you know, obviously there's been a shift and a change and a different strain and a vaccine and medicines available and, you know, that panic is...
Marc:has lessened, but there is the residual trauma effect of the terror of the last couple of years and also the recent deaths of people I know.
Marc:I think the idea of sleeping scares me to some degree.
Marc:But the dream and I had this dream and it was like I was at some sort of party or a house or whatever.
Marc:And I think it was Timothee Chalamet.
Marc:And like, you know, there was this sort of a room.
Marc:It was like a sauna, but I had this plunge pool.
Marc:But the plunge was like 20 feet and it was very narrow, but it was tiled and it was water, you know, but you kind of fall down this hole into this tiled plunge pool, I guess.
Marc:And Chalamet's like all fucked up or high on something.
Marc:And I think he said to me, he said, I wish somebody could weigh me now with all the experiences I'm having now.
Marc:Weird, right?
Marc:And then he kind of fell into this, this plunging pool and he had his head once on the outside, once going down and he went down into the water and there was blood coming out of his head and he was down at the bottom under the water and
Marc:He wasn't moving.
Marc:He wasn't coming up.
Marc:And I went down into the water, but I didn't have the room and I was getting claustrophobic.
Marc:And it was like, I got scared for myself.
Marc:Could I get out?
Marc:And like, I couldn't move my arms and I couldn't grab him and pull him up successfully.
Marc:And I was awake.
Marc:Terrible.
Marc:I'm sorry, Timothy.
Marc:I'm sorry, man.
Marc:I hope you're okay.
Marc:It didn't look good.
Marc:It didn't look good from where I was sitting in the dream.
Marc:I tried, though.
Marc:I tried to get in there.
Marc:And I woke up.
Marc:Sorry, man.
Marc:So...
Marc:Listen, if if this is helpful, press one.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:That's what's been going on.
Marc:You know, I've been very panicky and I just I feel OK, but I don't feel perfect.
Marc:And I imagine I'll get through this.
Marc:Today is a week.
Marc:So, Peter Dinklage.
Marc:I was very excited to meet him.
Marc:Cyrano, his new film, will get wide release in theaters beginning February 25th.
Marc:Peter is nominated for the Critics' Choice Award for Best Actor.
Marc:This is me talking to him here in the studio.
Marc:Garage.
Garage.
Marc:Sadly, to be honest with you, I did not watch the Game of Thrones, but I tried to cram it yesterday.
Marc:It's really too much.
Guest:there's the weird thing is there's more than 24 hours of game of thrones there is you can't no you can't cram it in a day you can't like you would think i don't know maybe how many hours can you cram i love lucy in a day maybe i don't know what you can it's a half hour so that would mean like 50 i'm bad at math so 50 some odd episodes there's more than 50 it's so funny i can't cramming anything's a bad idea cramming
Marc:Like I was looking at your... Physically cramming something in.
Guest:Sometimes it's a good thing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like I crammed in an Alperger, a double-double into my face yesterday on the road.
Marc:And it wasn't a good thing, but it was great.
Marc:While you were driving?
Marc:No, I didn't.
Guest:My brother-in-law has a funny story about cramming a Big and Tasty, which I think is a fast food joint somewhere.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think maybe Pacific Northwest.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm not going to embarrass him any further.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:There was no restroom.
Guest:Let's leave it at that.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:So the Big and Tasty cup became the Big and Tasty.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We don't have to go into too much detail, but something went in there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, that's kind of a cute story or it's really like a nasty story.
Yeah.
Marc:it's not a good it's neither you're not recording yet sure i am oh shit but yeah cramming because i was reading i was looking at the some of the stuff on you and and i realized you did some do that some narnia movie you know and i was like no no i tried to cram you tried to cram in the
Marc:When I was a kid- The Christianity?
Marc:No.
Marc:We were assigned through an entire year.
Marc:We were reading all the books in Narnia, and I read none of them.
Guest:You went to a Christian school?
Marc:No, it wasn't.
Marc:It was actually kind of a progressive school, but I think it was before anybody was really associating it with specific Christianity.
Marc:I don't know why it was assigned, but I know I was supposed to read them all.
Guest:I wonder if that was tacked on later.
Marc:Well, no, I mean, he is a Christian.
Marc:I read his book on grief.
Marc:I mean, he's unabashed.
Marc:But if it was exaggerated later on by the people who sort of... Maybe, but I think he was of the okay Christian ilk.
Marc:They got kind of a bad rap now, but I think he's old school.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know when we did it, it didn't feel Christian until... Yeah, I think it's metaphorical, but it's in there.
Guest:I didn't feel very Christian making that movie.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:Do you ever feel Christian making movies in general?
Guest:I was under a lot of prosthetics and working with young people.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I remember at one point they divided up between the actors and the creatures, and apparently I was one of the creatures, but all of us actors were playing creatures, so it was sort of a class system.
Marc:on that set wouldn't fly today i don't think really i don't know i'm not the class system between actors and creatures i was a creature so there was no reason to be christian creatures shouldn't have religion in general well part of the reason it was invented there's going to be a problem when they do when they finally find it well it's you know with technology so yeah but anyways i tried to cram all of them in a day that was the point don't get too far from the mic or take it with you if you're gonna i can't lean back i can't relax
Marc:No, you can pull it back.
Marc:The thing moves.
Marc:Yeah, it goes right with you.
Guest:Oh, excuse me.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:See that?
Marc:Look at that.
Marc:No one gets that either.
Marc:I don't know why I knew you would.
Marc:No, I'm just sort of like, just move it to your face.
Marc:And they're like, what?
Marc:Look at the structure of the boom.
Marc:It's designed to move around every way you can.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, so that was another cramming story.
Marc:So you're from Jersey?
Yeah.
Marc:Originally, yeah.
Marc:Me too.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:I like to do the Jersey bonding.
Marc:I didn't do my research on you.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:I'm genetically Jersey, which is something people have heard me say forever.
Marc:Both my parents are from Jersey.
Marc:My grandparents are from Jersey.
Marc:But you're not from Jersey.
Marc:I was born in Jersey.
Marc:You were born in Jersey.
Marc:When did you leave?
Marc:I lived that first six years of my life in Jersey.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Always went back to Jersey.
Marc:Jersey's part of me.
Guest:How do you pronounce S-A-U-C-E?
Guest:S-A-U-C-E.
Guest:What do you put on pasta?
Guest:Tomato what?
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Quickly, without thinking.
Guest:Sock?
Guest:You put tomato sauce?
Guest:Oh, sauce.
Guest:Sauce.
Guest:What do you say?
Guest:No, if I'm tired, I'll say sauce.
Guest:Sauce.
Marc:No, I didn't come out with a bad jersey.
Guest:Because we're educated now.
Guest:We lifted.
Guest:Maybe.
Marc:But I wouldn't know if I did.
Guest:No, we weren't educated.
Guest:We were made fun of.
Guest:I went to school in Vermont, college in Vermont.
Guest:Oh, that's what it is.
Guest:And my friends from the Pacific Northwest...
Guest:yeah uh who apparently they have the perfect american dialect up there there's no in vermont no in the pacific northwest my friends from there yeah a couple of very smart friends uh they just said and they made fun of me for saying sauce sauce and coffee so coffee yeah
Marc:Those are the two.
Guest:I've been ridiculed out.
Guest:Tomatoes?
Guest:Tomatoes.
Guest:Hey, that's more like Sinatra.
Guest:Look at them tomatoes.
Guest:Look at those tomatoes.
Guest:It was mocked out of me.
Marc:Oh, I see.
Marc:I don't think I ever really had it because I moved away when I was seven or eight years old.
Marc:I grew up in New Mexico, but Jersey is ... I love Jersey.
Marc:I've grown to love it.
Marc:i don't go back much but i i it used to be the brunt of a joke and then you realize like there's nothing wrong with new jersey it's a great state yeah it depends on there's some people there's some there's some people come on who are wrong in new jersey and there's wrong people everywhere yeah everywhere people are garbage i might be one of those people well you're going to be wrong some days what part of new jersey
Guest:north new jersey i was born at the shore yeah and the school system back in the 60s wasn't very good back then yeah my mom moved us north yeah that's where i'm from pompton lakes that's where my roots are pompton lakes new jersey pasaic county yeah yeah morris county yeah it's pretty though you don't think it is a lot of parks are you is your mom still there my mom's still there in the house i grew up in yeah so you go back to jersey
Guest:Sometimes, yeah.
Guest:And you live in New York.
Guest:Not enough, according to my mom.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you're not far from Jersey.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I can't.
Guest:I'm in Brooklyn, so I sort of say, Mom, why don't you just come to Brooklyn?
Guest:Because you're by yourself now.
Guest:And does she come?
Guest:Easy for you to get in the car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got the dogs and the kids, and it's a little bit of a... Yeah, sometimes.
Guest:She thinks, though, she thinks it's not New York.
Guest:When I lived in Manhattan, she's like, this is New York City.
Guest:She doesn't get crossing two rivers together.
Marc:I got to be honest with you.
Guest:Is this still New York?
Guest:I don't think it is.
Guest:She misses when I lived in the West Village.
Guest:Well, yeah, it's exciting coming from Jersey to the city.
Marc:Brooklyn is just sort of like a bunch of buildings.
Marc:It's like Jersey again.
Marc:It's like the other side.
Marc:It's like the coast.
Marc:It's like Newark.
Marc:Yeah, they don't can't tell it.
Marc:It's like going to Long Island.
Marc:Long Island's Long Island.
Marc:It's not New York City.
Marc:It's not New York City.
Marc:Yeah, no.
Marc:There's no skyline.
Marc:New York City's New York City.
Marc:You lived in the West Village?
Marc:Yeah, in Chelsea and all over.
Marc:Wait, how old are you?
Marc:52.
Marc:Okay, so I'm 58.
Marc:So we're kind of similar.
Marc:But we never crossed paths.
Marc:No, that's weird.
Marc:I was in New York in like 89, 90.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Uh, 91, 92, I went away for a year and then back 95 through 2000.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Never saw you.
Marc:You'd remember if you saw me.
Marc:I would.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I was just, I was just staying out too late back then.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Just, just not, just not doing much, but staying out too late, smoking too many cigarettes.
Guest:And, uh,
Guest:not really knowing what I wanted to do.
Guest:I thought I was a writer.
Guest:A writer?
Marc:What did you start?
Guest:A writer?
Guest:You didn't have to respond like that.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:Well, everyone thinks you're a writer for a while.
Guest:Everyone thought I was a writer?
Marc:No, everyone thinks they are.
Marc:People in the arts at some point go through the writer stage.
Marc:You have to land on something.
Marc:Like, what was your first passion?
Marc:Writing.
Marc:Really?
Marc:When you were a kid?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:I think I was like guitar and... I see.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I can take it as a hobby.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Writing is a hobby, right?
Marc:Kind of.
Marc:I think when you're an artist, though, or you are aspiring to be an artist, you want to be recognized for your shit.
Guest:Do people...
Guest:Does it need an audience?
Guest:If that's the question, if you write and nobody reads it, are you a writer?
Guest:If you play your guitar just for you.
Marc:Well, I'm just asking, what was your intent?
Marc:I mean, when you saw yourself as a writer, didn't you want people to read it?
Marc:Not really.
Guest:Because it wasn't very good.
Marc:Did you write in high school?
Guest:I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you start smoking weed and you read Charles Bukowski like everybody else and Sam Shepard.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:As a straight 16 year old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, if you're not into the musicals at that age or into the darker stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The dark arts of.
Guest:And then you start drinking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you really you're tortured.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:And you have to write about it.
Marc:Yeah, you're playing it.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I did that.
Marc:When did you start?
Marc:Did you smoke cigarettes?
Marc:You smoked cigarettes.
Marc:Yeah, stole them from my dad's ashtray.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Down in the basement.
Guest:He used to smoke in the basement.
Guest:Go down there.
Guest:What did he smoke?
Guest:What kind?
Guest:He was, shit, that's a good question.
Guest:I was Camelites for 30 years.
Guest:Camelites, 30?
Guest:Yeah, from 16 to... Shit, me too.
Guest:Whenever, man, 40.
Marc:I switched up a lot, though.
Guest:Always Camelites.
Guest:i was like fit from 14 15 years old to like 39 probably 35 no 35 yeah oh that's not as long as you actually my when your wife quits you quit because you're kissing an ashtray was it tough i was on nicotine lozenges for over a decade stuff no it's weird to see people smoking now though because a lot of people still do it not as much as when we were it is weird when they're older and you're like come on yeah
Marc:yeah i mean enough just enough isn't good it smells so you just don't it's a not it's you don't ever think that you could have done that yeah is what it is yeah i and when that's all it was i know i when i smell it i still enjoy the smell and stuff but i know when i see people my age smoking i'm like there's nothing good there man no and it never ends no there's no there's no end to it until you stop it but then they just are pickled and they'll outlive us
Marc:No, that's not true.
Marc:Really?
Marc:No, man.
Marc:They dropped dead of heart attacks and cancer.
Marc:I think it's DNA.
Guest:Sure, a lot of it.
Guest:I think most of it is DNA.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Isn't it?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:I think a lot of it.
Guest:You see a 95-year-old chain smoking his whole life.
Guest:How do you explain that?
Marc:That example, I think, is I'd really like some numbers on those guys.
Marc:I'm sure there are.
Marc:I'm sure the doctors have it.
Marc:I've heard that story.
Marc:There's always the example of the guy.
Marc:But yeah, maybe he had good genes.
Marc:Maybe he got lucky.
Marc:But that doesn't mean anything.
Guest:You just happened to catch him.
Guest:Smoking that one cigarette a week.
Marc:You're processing toxins.
Marc:What's your body?
Marc:What's it made out of?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:How much can it take is what it comes down to.
Marc:So you're Bukowski-ing in high school.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then you get really into it in college.
Guest:Where'd you go to school?
Guest:Where in Vermont?
Guest:Bennington, Vermont.
Guest:I feel like I know that school.
Guest:Bennington is known for writers.
Guest:Donna Tartt.
Guest:There's actually a podcast, I think, going on now about the times at Bennington during... Oh, that's right.
Marc:Yes, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I just saw an article about that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Apparently, I haven't listened to it.
Marc:Was that your... Oh, John, he's older than mine.
Guest:He graduated while I was coming in as a freshman, so I just missed that sort of wave of hipster 80s writers.
Marc:What did you do in high school?
Guest:What did you do for jobs?
Guest:High school?
Guest:Mowed lawns and stuff.
Guest:Worked in a library.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:They thought I was homeless all the time.
Guest:They kept coming in and tried to kick me out.
Guest:And I said, I work here.
Guest:And there was this one older lady who hired me.
Guest:I don't think she told anybody.
Guest:Because I dressed in, like, capes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had, like, velvet capes.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I was that kind of teenager, yeah.
Guest:I didn't do the goth black eyeliner.
Guest:I love the cure, but...
Guest:I didn't go makeup, but I did the- Velvet capes.
Guest:Black velvet capes.
Guest:Combat boots and that type of thing.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you pre-ripped the pant knees.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Black jeans?
Guest:No, the camel, but black tights.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Because I was kind of shy.
Guest:I didn't want to show- The knee.
Guest:The real, and so I had black tights.
Guest:Yeah, black tights under your ripped jeans.
Guest:Very fantasy trans sort of look.
Guest:I don't know what I was going for.
Marc:That must have been a sight.
Marc:I did.
Marc:You got pictures?
Marc:Any top hats in your past?
Guest:Not top hats.
Guest:I wore a beret for a while.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:You didn't go through a beret phase.
Marc:It was the 80s.
Marc:Early 80s.
Marc:Berets were in.
Marc:You know what I went through?
Marc:I had an Afghani wool hat.
Marc:Like that, you know, you'd recognize them.
Marc:They were selling them on the street in New York a lot.
Marc:They had like, they were, it was wool.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it looked like you folded it up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The Confederacy of Dunces.
Marc:Not quite flaps.
Marc:No, it was sort of like, it was, it looked like you could unroll it, but it was rolled up and it was a cap.
Marc:But it was definitely Afghan war surplus.
Marc:It was a Mujahideen hat, is what it was.
Marc:I loved it.
Marc:I wore hats like that.
Guest:Noah Perez.
Guest:I've got a really big head, so when I find my hat, it stays for a while.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because rare is the hat that fits me.
Guest:You play instrument?
Guest:I don't.
Guest:I used to play trumpet, but my brother's a violinist.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:And my mom is a piano player.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He's the concertmaster at Hamilton.
Guest:Hamilton, New York?
Guest:Hamilton, the Broadway show.
Marc:Oh, oh, the show.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, he's been doing that for a long time.
Marc:So he's in show business, too.
Marc:Lofty.
Marc:The lofty part of show business.
Marc:The high end.
Marc:The pit.
Guest:If the pit is high.
Marc:It is high.
Marc:That's some high-minded stuff.
Marc:Because if he's not in the pit, he can do some shit that nobody understands.
Marc:But everybody respects.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And you can... That guy's good.
Marc:You know virtuosity.
Marc:You don't have to wear costumes.
Marc:Is he amazing?
Guest:Yeah, he's amazing.
Guest:Older or younger?
Guest:Older.
Guest:He's been doing it since he was six years old.
Guest:He's never had a real job.
Guest:The violinist paid for everything.
Guest:Prodigy?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:Not Juilliard.
Guest:He was a prog rock head.
Guest:So as soon as if you play a violin, those guys can tell you you can plug it in.
Guest:Then he immediately got like a transducer and got all into play, you know, because prog rock's all about that stuff.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So that was his jam.
Guest:It was all Yes and UK.
Guest:Crimson.
Guest:Crimson and all that stuff.
Guest:Rush?
Guest:Rush.
Guest:He went on tour with Rush.
Guest:He did?
Guest:He did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Doing what?
Guest:Playing violin?
Guest:That's a lot of guys in the audience.
Guest:It's very hard to find a lady in the Rush audience.
Marc:No, ladies have been convinced by Rush guys to come occasionally.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They do not sing about love and loss.
Marc:They did a documentary and they've addressed that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:They're amazing.
Guest:What'd your brother do?
Guest:He played violin.
Guest:Really?
Guest:He had a violin, electric violin solo.
Guest:What's his name?
Guest:Jonathan Dinklage.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:They toured.
Guest:I was so happy.
Guest:He was so happy.
Guest:But Neil, they lost Neil, so I don't think they're going back on.
Marc:So what'd you do?
Marc:You sang in the art rock mess generally?
Marc:No.
Marc:The theater art rock mess?
Marc:No.
Marc:I got into the acting.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that was at Bennington.
Guest:Yeah, acting and the writing, and then you go to New York, and then you start just... But did you take classes at Bennington?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Marc:Did you measure?
Guest:It was college.
Guest:You know, you take classes.
Marc:I get it, man.
Marc:But some people don't study acting.
Guest:They're just sort of like... No, I know, and we had...
Guest:A couple of really good teachers, but I don't get it.
Guest:I really didn't get it.
Guest:I was tired.
Guest:There's a lot of people that sign up for acting class just because they're lazy and they think, I don't know what, they're not going to ever do anything with it because they're terrible or they're not serious about it and they're just sitting there and giggling or whatever it is.
Guest:They don't put it together.
Marc:You put it together?
Marc:I was trying to.
Marc:When you realize, like, I like to act.
Marc:You just find your, I'd say the tribe.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You've done a number of independent films.
Guest:It's that feeling of getting a head start on the tribe that you will work with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like the great films you've done and I've tried to do.
Guest:It's sort of you find those people early on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm still really close friends with those guys from college and ladies.
Guest:Are they still in the biz?
Guest:Some of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And those are, you know, we're nothing without each other.
Guest:Really?
Guest:That's what happens.
Guest:They're your friends.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:And we continue to work together.
Guest:Everybody has that Steppenwolf idea.
Guest:Oh, you tried to start a... You know, everybody thinks, if you're in the theater, you just look at the template that Steppenwolf did.
Guest:Malkovich and Sinise and Laurie Metcalf and all those guys did.
Guest:I've talked to Laurie about the beginning of that.
Guest:Everybody looks at that and goes, I want to do that.
Guest:So you tried to put a crew together?
Guest:You do.
Guest:You do it without even knowing you're doing it.
Guest:But did you do it like in New York?
Guest:Yeah, me and my buddy Ian, the guy who made fun of my accent, we rented, we made a theater in Williamsburg down right under the Williamsburg Bridge and we tried to do that and it just fell apart because we didn't have any heat.
Guest:It's rough, right?
Guest:The landlord threatened to kill a friend of mine.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What kind of productions were you doing?
Guest:Well, we were all just like drinking too much too, so we couldn't put it together.
Guest:So we had like... So you never got a production up?
Guest:No, never.
Guest:We did some poetry readings.
Guest:But you had a space.
Guest:Some bands played.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:We drank a lot.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then we lost our minds and left, then walked away.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:That was it.
Guest:So you really couldn't... Because we're not... We don't have any business sense.
Guest:Yeah, but you didn't... And nobody who has a business sense would live in the environment in which we were...
Marc:But you never even got a show up.
Marc:No.
Marc:Like, I've talked to a lot of people.
Guest:Steppenwolf had True West.
Guest:We had nothing.
Guest:Have you ever done that play?
No.
Guest:But it's sort of the dream.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a good one.
Guest:It's like Hamlet.
Guest:It's one of those.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Well, that's, I mean, that Malkovich, True West is the reason a lot of guys my age are into it.
Guest:Did you see it at the Cherry Lane?
Guest:No, but I saw that American Playhouse videotape.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But friends of mine like Ethan Hawke and Paul Dano did it.
Marc:Ethan Hawke and Paul Dano did True Us together?
Guest:On Broadway a couple years ago, yeah.
Marc:Was that the one where they were rotating people or did they switch roles?
Guest:No, that was Phil Hoffman and John C. Reilly.
Guest:It's just a play that everybody, it's just, it's just, it's rock and roll.
Marc:It's definitely rock and roll.
Marc:You know what the best part of that play is?
Marc:The toast.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Eating the toast.
Marc:Well, just smelling the toast.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because the whole theater starts to smell like toast.
Marc:I know.
Guest:Everybody, and since most people are elderly, isn't that where you smell right before you have a heart attack?
Marc:Yeah, so there's a lot of panic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Panic in the room.
Marc:Stroke is happening.
Guest:Is it stroke or heart attack?
Guest:One of them.
Guest:The reason I ask- But that's not a bad thing to smell right before you die.
Marc:No, it's nice.
Guest:It's a gift.
Guest:It's a gift.
Guest:It is a gift, yeah.
Marc:But the reason I ask is that, like, I think, who would I talk to?
Marc:Like, a lot of people start these troops.
Marc:Like, I talked to David Harbour.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think he put together a crew, too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But they did some shit.
Marc:But I like the idea that you guys put it together.
Marc:Well, a lot of job, Mr. Harbour.
Marc:And you didn't get anything done.
Marc:I like that.
Marc:No.
Marc:You're just too fucked up to get anything.
Guest:He must have had a business account, guy.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I don't know that they made any money, but they got a play up.
Yeah.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:I don't know if they were expecting much.
Guest:They had somebody rip tickets in half.
Marc:We didn't have that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what happens after that?
Marc:What happens after the... What was the name of the company?
Marc:Did you at least name the troupe?
Marc:Giant.
Guest:Giant Theater Company.
Guest:So we had... R.I.P.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:R.I.P.
Guest:Giant.
Guest:Our heart was in the right place.
Guest:How many people were involved in the failure?
Guest:Just the two of us.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:You hadn't even casted the bunch yet.
Marc:No.
Guest:No, and we found a roommate, our friend, Hila's brother.
Marc:I like that you still consider it a theater group, a thing that happened.
Guest:People came to it.
Guest:There was nothing to see, but people hung out.
Guest:There was always people hanging out.
Marc:Oh, you had a couple events at the space.
Guest:Is that what you're telling me?
Guest:It felt like Andy Warhol's factory, but nothing like it at the same time.
Marc:Exactly, yeah.
Guest:People there to hang out.
Marc:Yeah, drink.
Guest:Is anybody doing anything?
Guest:No.
Guest:Do you have any comedy there?
Guest:There was some comedy.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what happens after that?
Marc:You could have probably made it.
Marc:I popped in?
Marc:Yeah, I heard.
Marc:You could have put us on the map.
Marc:Sure, man.
Marc:I wasn't on the map, though.
Marc:Hey, I hear there's a- You could have done something.
Marc:Giants doing a show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They're doing comics.
Guest:Hey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Open night.
Guest:Yeah, open night at Giant.
Guest:Open mic at Giant.
Guest:Where is it?
Guest:Under the bridge.
Guest:Under the Williamsburg Brits.
Guest:I'm good.
Guest:Yeah, well, go.
Guest:It rattled so much that you couldn't really hear a production.
Guest:Come on.
Marc:Seriously?
Guest:It's like, where's this fucking movie?
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Really, we should go back there.
Guest:What happens after that?
Guest:My cough isn't COVID.
Guest:Don't worry.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I paid the bills.
Guest:I'm a survivor.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:I got jobs.
Guest:Acting?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, because fuck acting when I was young.
Guest:I didn't want to be a part of it.
Guest:Because?
Guest:Because I knew what it meant, and I just didn't like that.
Guest:What it meant for you or in general?
Guest:I was just coming off the financial crisis of Giant.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:The economic loss of Giant.
Guest:Devastating.
Guest:Hard times.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So much put in, so little.
Marc:So much put in.
Guest:So I thought, this is not for me.
Guest:So I worked in offices and did all sorts of things.
Marc:How does it come back around?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:You don't?
Marc:Did you have a rep?
Marc:Did you have somebody who pulled you back in?
Marc:I did.
Guest:Bootstraps.
Guest:I read for this guy...
Guest:Somebody, oh, Kevin Corrigan.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He was friends of a friend, a writer friend of mine, and he said, hey, we made this movie, you should come and read for the director, Tom DiCillo, and he was living in oblivion.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember, yeah.
Guest:They had done like a short film version of that, and then they were making it.
Guest:So I just, I read for Tom DiCillo, and he gave me the part.
Guest:But then, you know, you do that movie, and it's great, and people see it, and then you go back to doing regular jobs.
Yeah.
Marc:You didn't get an agent or anything?
Marc:No.
Guest:I didn't want an agent.
Guest:I didn't want any of that stuff.
Guest:It's all on me.
Guest:I could have done something earlier.
Guest:What was the apprehension?
Guest:Lack of control.
Guest:Just being told where to go, what to say.
Guest:Just stupid shit for someone my size.
Marc:Oh, you were concerned that you'd be typecasted?
Guest:Probably, but I think even if I was six foot two, it was just humiliating.
Guest:Acting in general, going out.
Marc:Yeah, no, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Guest:And I also still think ambition is ugly.
Guest:I'm trying to come to terms with ambition, and I think you need ambition.
Guest:I agree, that's true.
Guest:But for some reason, for me, maybe I'm older.
Guest:Just ambition, I always thought it was ugly, and there are people... The trust levels were people like that.
Guest:I see it sometimes, and it's like...
Guest:For what for a part?
Guest:What are you doing?
Marc:Well, sometimes that's all people have you know that the weird thing is is that you know that type of focus and this idea that you know if you work hard you get the stuff and also that like you know what it's really about is You know winning is that you know there's that that is a school of thought now.
Guest:Yeah, and
Guest:Especially not to be that guy, but here in LA.
Marc:Yeah, but ambition is not a point of view, but it is something that will get you to a point.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:There is plenty of people that lack, have an insane lack of talent, but are fueled by ambition that do okay.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I like the formula perseverance plus talent equals luck.
Guest:Yeah, that's it.
Guest:That's a good one.
Guest:But it's not ambition.
Marc:It's sort of like just... Well, I think that there's a fine line between passion and ambition.
Marc:And also, at some point in your head, you realize if you want to do the thing that you don't really have a choice in it.
Guest:And you're going to be found out.
Guest:If you're ambitious just for yourself and you're not about, you're going to be found out.
Marc:Yeah, maybe.
Guest:You're not going to be around.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:It's one of the big problems.
Marc:There are people that are very good at socializing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And the ambitious people are the ones that know all the fucking things to do to get you into the place you want to be.
Marc:Whereas people that are broken and fucking self-hating and extraordinarily talented, they're more likely to do themselves in one way or the other.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So if you can persevere from that, out of that hole, then you're truly gifted.
Marc:So there you go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Without any ambition, you're gifted and you're going to have to accept it.
Guest:Well, yeah, there's also like that stupid, like you're hiding behind some false humility.
Guest:That's like ambition.
Guest:It's ugly.
Guest:But, you know, if you're like if you have any success, I guess you've had some sort of ambition to.
Marc:No, but I think what you said before is it's persistence.
Marc:Yeah, and you want to work, sure.
Guest:I love work.
Guest:And work is life, and life is work intertwined with what we do.
Guest:And so it's hard to delineate ambition in your life being ugly and wanting something in your work because they're so intertwined.
Marc:But I think what you said is true is that the scary part about the job is that you're put in a position to take opportunities that you really don't want because someone has either talked you into it or you're desperate.
Marc:So that's a big fear.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Especially with actors because you're really told what to do, where to stand and what to eat and what to wear.
Guest:And it's just...
Guest:The older you get, you just realize.
Guest:That's why a lot of actors become producers or they direct.
Guest:Or they Gene Hackman and they just leave it because they don't want to get up at 4 a.m.
Guest:At 100.
Marc:It's not like he walked away in the prime of his fucking career.
Guest:But he would come back, though.
Guest:A lot of actors retire, and then four years later, wait, I thought you retired.
Guest:He's in his 90s.
Guest:I know, but you haven't heard from him.
Marc:Yeah, I hear about him.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Does he call you?
Marc:No, but I grew up in New Mexico, and he's up in Santa Fe, so I just talked to somebody in Santa Fe.
Marc:Shirley MacLaine, she's around there.
Marc:Yeah, there's a few people up there, but I talked to my buddy's girlfriend.
Marc:They live up there, and I asked, do you ever see Hackman?
Marc:And she says, yeah, I saw him at the mobile home dealer.
Ha ha!
Marc:And he took the mobile home I wanted.
Marc:I'm like, oh, that's a good Hackman story.
Marc:His wife wanted the mobile home I wanted.
Marc:They got it.
Marc:And it turned out they didn't like it.
Guest:So there you go.
Guest:He was checking out his stats on goldderby.com.
Marc:But nonetheless, ambition.
Marc:But you have somehow carved your own path.
Marc:What happens after living oblivion?
Marc:How soon before the station agent?
Guest:Almost 10 years.
Marc:Oh, Jesus.
Guest:So after living in oblivion, you actually lived in oblivion?
Guest:Yeah, a little bit.
Guest:No, I did odds and ends and did some indie.
Guest:Some friends made some indie movies that nobody saw, and you get a couple hundred bucks here and there for doing those.
Guest:And then, yeah, station agent Tom McCarthy.
Guest:McCarthy, yeah, I've talked to him.
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Guest:He's a good friend.
Guest:Smart guy.
Guest:Very smart.
Guest:Yeah, he wrote it with a couple actors of mine, and we just did it, and didn't think anybody... Again, Tom knew that he was on to something, but just living in that small box of not seeing the bigger world out there of what you're working on, and perhaps in a theater sense of it all, just do readings in people's living rooms, and then...
Guest:It was at Sundance, and suddenly everybody was laughing.
Guest:You're so immersed in it, you didn't realize it was even funny until you get an audience in there.
Guest:And that was when I knew that it was going to be somewhat popular.
Marc:How much of your energy, though, early on went into... How much do you think this non-ambition thing and also the desire for control thing was driven by not being...
Marc:You know, not wanting to be typecast, you know, in classical dwarf roles.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:I'd probably 100%, but that guy at that time wouldn't admit to that.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Me at 24 would never admit to that.
Guest:You were just mad.
Guest:Probably.
Guest:Well, just thinking there's something else.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Not even embracing that reality.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Trying to distance myself from that, because that's not even something I would even dare to even consider.
Marc:No?
Guest:What, playing a leprechaun or something?
Marc:No, no, no, no, but I mean like, oh, I thought you meant that.
Guest:A realm that was like not, I wouldn't.
Marc:But early on, I thought you were saying you wouldn't own that disposition at that time, that that was the reason why you weren't.
Marc:Yeah, yes, that's what I meant.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But now, later, that's obviously the reality of what it was.
Marc:But living with that reality.
Guest:That's an excuse.
Marc:Sorry.
Marc:Not really.
Marc:It is.
Marc:I don't know, is it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, but do you think, like, let's say you did it differently and you took all the leprechaun roles and even a few TV commercials, you think you'd still be the same guy now?
Marc:Talking to you?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:Well, I mean, it's the difference, I guess, between-
Guest:What?
Guest:Every choice you make.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:The different paths of reality.
Marc:Well, I think something in your heart knows, like, you know, when you've crossed a line or there's a line you don't want to cross.
Marc:I mean, I think that I mean, how would what just in general living with it?
Marc:What was your experience and how in how you judged yourself?
Guest:Well, there there are people in our line of work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In the business of show that would do anything to be around it.
Guest:I've read articles about people who worked in the design shops and was like runners on movie sets to give this actor his coffee and just to be around the energy of it.
Guest:I wanted nothing to do with it because that would just make me even more sad about it all back then.
Guest:I don't know now.
Guest:I would assume that you probably still wouldn't want to get somebody coffee on set.
Guest:No, that takes a certain personality.
Guest:Yes, it does.
Guest:Lovely personality that I don't have.
Guest:So I would just do anything else but work in the theater.
Guest:Show business.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I get it.
Marc:So you just kept it this angry dream.
Guest:This angry distance from it all and waited until they were ready.
Marc:Until they sent the right representative.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Oh, boy, I had some winners.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, I can't talk about that, though, because they're still working, I suppose.
Guest:They're still kicking?
Guest:Yeah, and they're lovely.
Guest:It just wasn't the right fit, perhaps.
Marc:I mean, I don't know a lot of the movies before The Station Agent, like 13 Moons or...
Marc:Alex Rockwell.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Incredible.
Guest:Was it a good movie?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you know, it's hard to separate the experience of the movie from the movie.
Guest:I like having a great experience making a movie, and if nobody sees it, you know, what are you going to do?
Guest:But sometimes, rarely is the thing that you have a great experience and everybody sees it and loves it.
Guest:That's why everybody's doing TV now, because everybody sees it.
Marc:Yeah, or somehow, if there's enough of it out there, eventually they'll see it.
Guest:I don't know why suddenly some people have so much time on their hands to watch all this stuff.
Guest:There's so much stuff.
Marc:Yeah, it's impossible.
Guest:Because they can pause it.
Marc:Yeah, and that also exists out there in the world, especially if you're part of a huge series like you were.
Marc:That's never going to go away, ever.
Marc:I might even watch it eventually, even though I push back against it with all of my heart.
Marc:Why?
Marc:I'm not a fantasy guy.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Neither was I. Neither am I. No, you are now.
Guest:It's my gig.
Guest:It was my job.
Guest:It's just really good writing.
Guest:It's not really about fantasy.
Guest:It's mostly people in a room talking.
Marc:Well, that's what I hear.
Guest:It wasn't about the dragons.
Marc:I get it, but... No, you don't, because you haven't seen it.
Marc:No, I know, but I get what you're saying.
Marc:I always get that on the street.
Marc:This was the argument.
Marc:People always come up to me on the street.
Guest:There's a whole thing, there's a thing that people do on the street, because, you know, I get recognized.
Guest:Oh, they're like, I never watched it.
Guest:Yeah, they love saying that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like a badge of honor.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Or they'll come up and they'll just go, hey, you are on Game of Thrones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My son liked it.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:There's no nothing.
Guest:They're just there to state their case.
Guest:Yeah, state their case or- Which you just did.
Marc:But I mean, I watched your other movies.
Marc:But you're proud of it.
Guest:You're not a fantasy thing.
Marc:I watched your movies.
Marc:Yeah, I know, but I watched some of your movies too, but the point is I'm not trying to make a statement.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:But I know it was a big deal.
Marc:I'm actually oddly trying to be respectful and acknowledge that this was- If nobody watched Game of Thrones, would you check it out?
Guest:No.
Guest:If it was counterculture-
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Marc:Part of the other reason is the commitment.
Marc:You know, like by the time, by the time, like, you know, I was, everyone was like, let's, you know, you got to do this.
Marc:I'm like, you know, what am I going to, I got to start this thing now?
Marc:You know, so like, what are you doing tonight?
Marc:I didn't watch The Wire until like 10 years after.
Guest:And you watched all of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Guest:Like Breaking Bad.
Guest:I was watching that week to week.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:So good.
Guest:And then I watched it again.
Guest:I caught up about three seasons.
Guest:By the third season, I watched them all.
Marc:It's just like, you're right.
Marc:Maybe I need to make the time.
Marc:But I'm the same way with Marvel movies in terms of fantasy.
Marc:But I know the Game of Thrones is of a different mind.
Marc:And it's amazing.
Marc:I know that.
Marc:It's up to you to decide that.
Marc:I believe it's true.
Marc:But I have not watched it.
Marc:But I hear you're great in it.
Guest:People seem to like that.
Guest:Me in it saying things.
Guest:You got prizes.
Guest:Saying lines.
Marc:I got some prizes.
Guest:You got the prizes.
Guest:No, it was, you know, I think they got mad at the show at the end.
Guest:They got mad because they didn't want to say goodbye to it.
Marc:Yeah, well, that happens.
Marc:But now there's another one coming.
Marc:You can't win.
Marc:There's another one coming?
Marc:Yeah, there's a prequel coming up.
Guest:You in it?
No.
Guest:No, nobody attached to the originals in it.
Guest:But there's another one because it made some money.
Guest:HBO's back on it, which I have an opinion about.
Guest:Yeah, what is it?
Guest:Just make something different.
Guest:No, I think it's going to be a really good show because I know the director of the producer of it worked on our show.
Guest:I think it's going to be really fucking good.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:But they took a risk on our show.
Guest:HBO did.
Guest:It's all new leadership over there now.
Guest:They took a huge risk on our show, and it was a slow start.
Guest:But why don't they do that again?
Guest:Right.
Guest:This isn't a risk.
Guest:It's a proven thing that works.
Marc:Well, they're doing it with Succession, I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, that started out of nowhere, it seemed.
Guest:Succession.
Guest:Yeah, another great... I love that show.
Guest:Love it.
Guest:I'm starting to go, why am I watching these people?
Guest:They're so...
Guest:They're so... Well, it's because of what you said.
Marc:It's because of the language.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's dialect.
Marc:Dialogue.
Marc:It's great.
Guest:Dialogue.
Guest:It's dialogue.
Guest:Well, you know, you can have the best idea for a show or a movie and just show me the dialogue.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Is that how you choose most things?
Guest:You've got to read the dialogue, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I knew Dave and Dan.
Guest:I knew especially Benioff, one of the writers for Game of Thrones.
Guest:I knew how good of a writer he was.
Guest:I wasn't familiar with Dan's writing yet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Benioff was an incredible writer.
Marc:But you did a funny turn in Elf.
Marc:That was funny.
Marc:Yeah, I always liked the funny.
Guest:And the station agent was great.
Guest:I always try and go for the funny.
Guest:Do you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not being very funny right now because I've been talking about myself in this movie for two weeks.
Guest:We haven't even talked about the movie yet.
Guest:Maybe we won't have to.
Guest:Maybe this is the interview I do where we don't have to talk about them.
Guest:You're not a plug show.
Marc:No, I build it around the plug.
Guest:When does this air?
Guest:In like six months?
Guest:No, we'll do it.
Guest:That's how you got on here.
Guest:Do they air?
Guest:You just press a button and they're suddenly on the internet?
Marc:No, this is just how I get people to come to my house.
Marc:There's no airing.
Marc:It's got this weird reputation.
Guest:You don't watch Game of Thrones.
Guest:I don't do podcasts.
Guest:I still don't know what they are.
Guest:It's like a radio show.
Guest:You know what it is.
Guest:You have people watch it.
Marc:Have people said that before?
Marc:What is a podcast?
Marc:Well, they don't quite say, what is it anymore, unless they're 90.
Marc:Well, that's me, man.
Marc:But you're asking me the reason why it's not a plug show is that, well, I wouldn't have been able to get you to come here without the premise being you're promoting a movie.
Marc:But I don't usually do full plug.
Marc:But I did watch the movie.
Marc:But I want to talk about the station agent for a second because that seemed to be the big turning point.
Guest:Plug the Blu-ray re-release of the station agent.
Marc:But McCarthy seemed to understand something that broadened your capacity, you know, as an actor and as a public person.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, he innately knew that.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, because we knew each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But by the by that point, by the time we filmed, we were good friends.
Guest:So I think that's such a head start on everything.
Guest:And.
Guest:You know, movie making is weird when you're not familiar and good friends with people.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, because it's fake.
Guest:It's false.
Guest:But when you have that experience with people and love and familiarity and shorthand, it changes everything.
Guest:And that's what...
Marc:helped that movie.
Marc:It's fun that, like, and Patricia Clarkson's so great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Michelle Williams is like, she's so young at that point.
Marc:She was still doing Dawson's Creek at that point, yeah.
Marc:That's crazy.
Guest:We had to wrap her out to get her back.
Guest:Get her back to the kid show?
Guest:To Dawson's Creek, yeah.
Marc:Did you go hang around that Worcester group at all?
Marc:Did you go see that shit?
Marc:No.
Guest:I saw... That was sort of before my time.
Guest:And then when we got there, it was... I saw... Just actually, not that... Like, 10 years ago, I saw a show there that Fran McDormand did.
Guest:But no, not really.
Guest:No.
Guest:I missed all that.
Guest:I was too busy just being a dumb comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I was sort of being just a dumb idiot.
Guest:Just didn't go see a lot of plays.
Marc:Because there was like plays, and there was like the end of sort of performance art was happening down there.
Marc:There were still people around doing things like that performance-wise.
Marc:Interesting kind of avant-garde stuff, which sort of became a mockery of itself eventually.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:yeah i would see a lot of comedy stand-up yeah comic friends oh like who show walter and all those guys were the steak you see went to stella in time stella at the time cafe we went all the time to that oh really yeah i did that once or twice i always had a i probably saw you had beef with those guys yeah i'm okay with them now i guess they annoyed me
Guest:No, I remember it was... Yeah.
Guest:Because they were... I could, you know... Yeah, I could... Yeah.
Guest:But I remember Louie would show up occasionally.
Guest:I remember like the... Yeah.
Guest:Is Louie here tonight?
Marc:Is Louie... Yeah.
Marc:Silverman, everybody.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Everybody.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It was a thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that guy Blue and his band.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:That was what we would do or whatever every Wednesday for a while there.
Marc:Right.
Marc:We'd head over there, yeah.
Marc:I just remember like having been like mostly a club comic, I just...
Marc:And as that kind of world of kind of nice, kind of sketch-oriented people started to populate comedy, I just resented them.
Guest:Because you were a lone wolf.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And did it become like the cool kids kind of shutting you out a little bit?
Guest:No, they always wanted to involve me.
Guest:Not them in particular, but comedy.
Guest:No, I could have done it.
Guest:Is there a hierarchy?
Marc:No, I mean, we did Luna Lounge.
Marc:Did you do that too?
Marc:That was a little earlier.
Marc:I was always there.
Marc:I never performed.
Guest:I would just be an audience guy drinking.
Marc:Yeah, because I could go up there and yell and do what I do.
Marc:But then, yeah, it all became very sort of like... The ambition, though.
Marc:Hipstery.
Marc:I guess what we were talking about before.
Marc:A little of that.
Marc:Seems like perhaps...
Marc:There was something happening in terms of a community definition.
Marc:Like, you know, comics, you know, our job is to, you know, go out into the wild of our brain and the world and, you know, beat ourselves up and try to process things.
Marc:You know, I had a different idea of what it was than, you know, sort of like, we're doing this thing together.
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:Right, right, right.
Guest:right why skits yeah yeah i don't do skits yeah no they were but really funny skits but sure but i get it if i was yeah i get it um what do you think what's happening now with comedy with the world we're living in now
Marc:Oh, I think that there's a problem, again, with some sort of tribalization, but it's not the sort of like, kind of like urbane nerd that is really... No, but being afraid to be funny or being afraid to say something inappropriate, which is the basis of all humor.
Marc:I guess so, but I think that that's... I don't...
Guest:Not to be hot topic guy.
Marc:No, but I don't really buy into that.
Marc:I think you can say things.
Marc:And I think you can still.
Marc:If the impulse is only to shock or to say something to make an impact.
Guest:That's not so fun.
Guest:But I mean the great leveler.
Marc:Sure, but I still think that's possible.
Guest:We're all in it together.
Guest:I don't know if that's true anymore.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Because of...
Marc:Politics.
Marc:The audience or because of the comic?
Marc:Because of politics.
Marc:I think that this idea that there is a woke comedy and an anti-woke comedy is fucking ridiculous.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And if you consider yourself anti-woke, then I think you're carrying water for right-wing propaganda.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think that you're a hack because the job is to think for yourself.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what you know, like, you know, if you can't find your voice in a world of diversity and respect, then, you know, what are you really?
Marc:And if you can't transcend that by being, you know, respectful, yet still provocative, then, you know, you're not really challenging yourself, are you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:Things evolve.
Marc:I just I think that you can be as crass and as fucking vulgar and as fucking provocative as you want without saying a couple of words.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's like, you know, there's a lot of words we don't say anymore.
Marc:This whole idea that we can't joke about anything has been around since, you know, the beginning of comedy.
Marc:I know.
Guest:There's a lot of hypocrisy going on, I gotta say, from being somebody who's a little bit unique, front row seat to some... Really?
Marc:Like what?
Marc:Like, what do you see?
Guest:Well, you know, it's really progressive to cast literally no offense to anything, but I was a little taken back by the very, very, they're very proud to cast a Latino actress as Snow White.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you're still telling the story of Snow White.
Guest:Still Snow White, yeah.
Guest:Seven dwarves.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Take a step back and look at what you're doing there.
Guest:yeah i know that makes no sense to me but oh so you're progressive in one way and then but you're still making that fucking backward oh story of seven dwarves living in a cave to get what the fuck are you doing man we you know have i have i done nothing to advance the cause from my soapbox i guess i'm not loud enough
Guest:I don't know what studio that is.
Guest:But they were so proud of that.
Guest:And all love and respect to the actress and to the people who thought they were doing the right thing.
Guest:But I'm just like, what are you doing?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I remember doing, I played Hervé Villachez in an HBO film.
Guest:And there was a lot of early backlash.
Guest:How dare he play a Filipino?
Yeah.
Guest:They were so liberal-minded, and I am as liberal as anybody.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But they were so convinced because of how he looked, Hervé, that he was Filipino, which is... If that's not racism, what else?
Guest:Because he's not.
Guest:He was a Frenchman, and his physical condition made him look very cherubic and...
Guest:I guess someone from the Far East, but they got very angry.
Guest:How dare you do that?
Guest:And they didn't even have all the information.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:They just assumed.
Guest:And here I am hanging out with his brother, Patrick Villachez, who was just like laughing at all of it, who was born and raised in France with the guy.
Guest:Well, I think that's interesting because I'm also, if you tell the story of Snow White, its most fucked up, cool, progressive spin on it, let's do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All in, but I just don't know.
Guest:But that has something to do with business, doesn't it?
Guest:But it's all the same world, what you're talking about.
Guest:It is.
Guest:And watching ourselves and being hypocrisy, all of that.
Marc:But not unlike we were talking about before, is that they knew, it's not unlike revivals, right?
Marc:So they knew they got a cash cow with that story.
Guest:Because people don't take risks.
Marc:Right, but the point is that they were just- With great risk comes great reward.
Marc:Yeah, but in their mind, they're like, we got a no-brainer here.
Marc:We can win by appearing to be progressive, by casting a Latina, and we can just run money through this story again.
Marc:I don't think anybody has ever probably, other than what I just heard just now, said, the dwarf community-
Marc:It's tired of this shit.
Marc:Is there one?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Well, that's the thing, right?
Marc:In order to seek representation, you have to have a community movement, which also is the heart of what becomes the issue of wokeness.
Guest:But it's such a minority.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And I'm not affiliated with any groups or anything, but it's such a minority that...
Guest:It causes a real like, well, who the fuck cares?
Guest:You know, and that's that's entertainment.
Marc:I mean, entertainment.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I think that that's also what I'm I'm talking about is that there there's a movement on behalf of like a anti wokeness to get us back to who the fuck cares.
Marc:Now, I'm not I'm not saying that, you know, you should stand up for for your community.
Marc:It's not your responsibility.
Marc:And it may be relative.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Would you even consider it marginalized or just not even acknowledged?
Marc:Other than some what to call people.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:The thing is, I think in the world that anti-wokeness or anti-progressiveness sees, it's sort of like, hey, come on, everybody.
Marc:Let's go back to, can't we just fuck with people?
Marc:Right.
Guest:Which half my brain does.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Because I'm about as politically...
Guest:non-correct.
Guest:Probably because of who I am, I'm maybe allowed to be a little less politically correct because I get to make fun of myself.
Guest:I get to say the M word.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:You do.
Guest:M, not N. I know, I heard you.
Marc:But again, you're in a movie now that speaks to this too because- Speaks to what?
Marc:To casting in a different way.
Marc:This is sort of an age-old story, Cyrano, which I have never seen or read, so that story was totally new to me when I watched it the other day, which was very exciting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because it's heartbreaking.
Marc:Oh, you saw the movie?
Marc:I did.
Marc:Oh, cool.
Marc:You liked it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Cool.
Marc:As I get older, and even when I wasn't older, I admit that musicals move me.
Marc:People in general, singing or any of that story, I don't run around saying I love them, but they always...
Guest:get me do you like that the band the national no oh they wrote all the they wrote all the songs it's very good though yeah it's it's more of a now i like them now i like the band the national it's kind of a movie with songs it's musicals you sort of think like big big lavish numbers i guess so i mean uh yeah it is a musical yeah i mean it's a movie with songs but you do there's dance numbers i don't basically no you don't but like there are choreographed dance yes so i guess it is a musical
Guest:No, it was originally a stage play.
Guest:And Erica Schmidt, the adapter of the original Rustand play, French play from about 120 years ago, she had the great idea.
Guest:All right.
Guest:This show is done all the time.
Guest:It's been done for 100 years.
Marc:And the movie with Steve Martin was Roxanne.
Guest:And then there was a movie with Gerard Depardieu.
Guest:Which is great.
Guest:Yeah, I hear that.
Guest:It'll be done 100 years from now.
Guest:We're not the first or last version of the story.
Guest:Right.
Guest:With that, you can kind of unearth it a bit and go, all right, what do we do with this one?
Guest:Like Roxanne, like Steve Martin did.
Guest:Let's make it a pure comedy.
Guest:But what she did was she said, well, what if we take away its most famous attribute?
Guest:What if we take away the nose?
Guest:And what are you left with?
Guest:You're left with the same heart, but no nose.
Guest:And for me...
Guest:I never really associated with the play growing up.
Guest:I was more, obviously, like we said, Sam Shepard.
Guest:Because I always thought it was this handsome actor and a fake nose.
Guest:And when he wrote it 120 years ago, I'm sure it was great and the crowds went wild.
Guest:And it was like, oh, what's up?
Guest:It was probably one of the first known prosthetics used.
Guest:It was probably maybe even controversial to some.
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:But now it's just, what the fuck are you griping about this big nose?
Guest:And the actor got to take it off at the end of each performance.
Guest:He put it on his little nose hook in the dressing room.
Guest:The nose hook.
Guest:Wherever he kept it.
Guest:I like a nose hook.
Guest:A nose hook.
Guest:But he could do that.
Guest:And I just thought, I know theater and film, it's false.
Guest:It's make-believe.
Guest:It's pretend.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:growing up I needed that to be connected real on a guttural visceral level with something of course and it was just too theatrical yeah I didn't like it any of it but then Erica got rid of it because I she didn't write it for me but she got rid of the nose and she added these songs got the band to add these songs and
Guest:I just thought there was a smart way in.
Guest:And I lobbied for the part.
Guest:And she let me play the part.
Guest:And my size is not a substitute for the lack of a nose.
Guest:It's just sort of perhaps I was drawn upon stuff in terms of feeling insecure about yourself on bad days.
Guest:But now it spoke to everybody suddenly.
Marc:Yeah, but also, like, yeah, you take away the prosthetic and you take away that device, which makes it kind of asks for comedy.
Marc:Of course it does.
Guest:And it also, you subconsciously, as an audience member, I've found, are judging the character just like all the other characters are judging him.
Guest:Because you just, you're not, it's just a big nose.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you're kind of, it's fake and...
Guest:Yeah, and it's sort of... You're in on the joke, and the actor's in on the joke with you, almost winking at the audience, like, look at my big nose.
Marc:What's interesting about this movie is that you don't ask any real questions about how or why you are what you are.
Marc:is that you show up and you're clearly you, but your intellect and everything is already intact.
Marc:And the swordmanship and all that stuff, because you put the work in to figure out how to do that, it's all sort of like, well, this guy's just a badass, period.
Marc:And no one's going to fuck with this guy.
Marc:It never appears comedic in that way.
Marc:No.
Marc:It's heartbreaking from the very beginning, because it's just purely human.
Marc:You can't play the comedy of anything, really.
Marc:No, but I could see what you were saying that to keep returning to the nose after a certain point, it just becomes frozen in time.
Marc:It becomes a tradition.
Marc:It becomes silly.
Marc:And you have to suspend a whole lot of disbelief just in order to get to the humanity of the play.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I thought...
Guest:if this guy is really heroic in everything in his life except for love that's really cool too that's very conscious that's you know because heroes usually in films are you know heroic across the board with in battlefield comes back with the woman and never you know he's heroic all the time yeah but just to be to be completely at the mercy of of love yes it was pretty great
Marc:Is that a choice that you made in terms of playing it?
Marc:I like that he's cowardly in one aspect.
Marc:But that's what I'm asking you.
Marc:I mean, the story is the story, but when you were deciding how to make choices around playing him... Well, I think it calls into question a lot about what... What is love?
Guest:But truly, it's love.
Guest:This guy, it's almost like if Roxanne...
Guest:professed her love to him.
Guest:He wouldn't know what to do in a way.
Guest:It's like people who are in love with the idea of love.
Guest:What the fuck is love?
Guest:Is there such a thing as love at first sight or is that just chemicals and sex and attraction?
Guest:Does love come later?
Guest:What is it?
Guest:Is it possible to sustain it for a lifetime?
Marc:That's what the movie's about.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's more about
Guest:That initial, keeping that initial thrill.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And how do you sustain it?
Guest:You know, in an Emily Bronte sense of it all, like people who have this notion of what it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's very old school Catholic, you know, about like loving God and giving your life to something, but you're not even aware of what it is truly that you're bowing down to, I think.
Guest:And I think a lot of people...
Guest:don't like to apply love to reality.
Guest:They like to keep them separate.
Guest:And that's what Cyrano does.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, you know, what are they going to move in together?
Guest:As soon as Roxanne starts snoring, Cyrano going to still be in love with her, still being written poetry about her.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I think what you bring up is interesting about, you know, belief and about loyalty and about decision.
Marc:You're choosing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, to live in that elevated state.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:you know, whatever it may be, love, obsession.
Guest:But also if you're lying to that person, he's lying to Roxanne.
Guest:He sets up this elaborate catfish with Christian.
Marc:Yeah, but she sort of initiates that.
Marc:I mean, her feeling... It's her.
Marc:No, but her feeling for him, however naive it may have been, was where it started.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You stepped in because she asked you... I mean, it isn't just... Have you ever been... Sorry to interrupt.
Guest:Have you ever been close...
Guest:friends with a woman.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, that you were attracted to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But they weren't.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:We all have.
Marc:Yeah, but I think that's, you know, after a series of those is where my friendships with women sort of took a hit.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Cyrano doesn't take a hint.
Guest:Because he's been friends with Roxanne for a long time.
Guest:And if she doesn't realize that,
Guest:He also didn't.
Marc:In love with her.
Marc:Yeah, but just like he saw her, she sees him in a different way.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:The familiarity is your biggest enemy there.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Guest:How do you shift that?
Guest:Have you gone back and become friends with those women?
Marc:Well, I mean.
Guest:After time fizzles or whatever.
Marc:Well, it happened throughout my life at different points, you know, where.
Marc:But I always blame myself.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:So, you know, I mean, I don't know if I if I like I have a few women friends, but not many.
Guest:Were you quiet about it or would you tell them right away like like an actor like myself would?
Marc:No, I was just quietly, you know, obsessed and, you know, overcompensating.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, and then it just, you know, none of them were, did I have it at an age where, you know, I would, you know, maintain the relationship.
Marc:I mean, it's been tricky for me in general to, you know, maintain friendships by and large.
Marc:I have a few friends.
Marc:How many friends do you need, though?
Marc:People have too many friends.
Marc:I know I have a bit about that.
Marc:You need two.
Marc:You need the main guy and the guy you go to when you drain the main guy.
Marc:Hey, man, I'm having this problem.
Marc:Oh, you're tired?
Guest:No, I'll call the other guy.
Guest:I've lost some friends over the years just because I'm tired of listening to them.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:It's all about them and the problems.
Guest:I definitely have those.
Guest:You feel resentful, like, what about my shit, man?
Guest:You're not, you know.
Marc:I had to walk away from some of those.
Marc:Yeah, and then did you ask yourself, why am I the guy that they do that to?
Marc:Yeah, that's on me, too.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, my dad's a famous self-involved rambling man.
Yeah.
Marc:I love that Chris Christopherson song.
Marc:It's one of the best.
Marc:Self-involved rambling.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's not even that sad.
Marc:No, it's not.
Marc:It's tiring.
Marc:It goes on.
Marc:It's like, wow.
Guest:It's an entire side of an album.
Marc:Yeah, we get the point.
Guest:And then you flip over the album, you think it's over, but it's still going.
Marc:It's still there.
Marc:He's still talking about something he doesn't give a shit about himself.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, most songwriting might fall into that.
Marc:Yeah, I guess so.
Guest:Shut up already with the singing about it.
Marc:Yeah, I'm more of a melody guy than a lyrics guy.
Marc:Give me the riff.
Marc:I want to know the riff.
Marc:I don't need to hear the talking.
Guest:That's why you don't know what most people are singing about.
Guest:Excuse me while I kiss this guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Wait, is that what he's saying?
Marc:What?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Here, smoke this.
Guest:It doesn't matter, man.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:We're on a rocket.
Guest:This guitar's upside down.
Guest:He's holding it.
Guest:My upside down or it's Jimmy's guitar?
Guest:It all is, man.
Guest:Did you ever listen to the dead?
Guest:Were you a deadhead?
Guest:I was never a deadhead.
Marc:I wouldn't say I was a deadhead, but I do have an appreciation for the dead.
Marc:I see.
Guest:I guess at a young age, when you're doing the prog rock, if you don't sleep... That's like anti-dead.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was anti dead.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I was pro life.
Guest:No, that doesn't sound right.
Guest:Not that.
Marc:But but speak to the movie like, you know, the choice to cast you, which I thought was genius.
Marc:And then I imagine in the classic telling of the story, Christian is not a black man.
Marc:So that was a choice.
Guest:Yeah, he's quite often.
Guest:played like an idiot.
Guest:It's funny.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:An idiot?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:You're a handsome idiot.
Guest:This version that Erica created, she never saw him as that.
Guest:She created a very kind person.
Guest:Who was aware of his flaws.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just so...
Guest:The opposite.
Marc:She doubled the heartbreak.
Guest:Yeah, but I think what it speaks to is if you meet a really sweet, kind person, your first thing is like, I'm not sure that person's very smart.
Guest:Because I think we equate kindness with...
Guest:Suckers.
Guest:Lack of intelligence.
Guest:Weak.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like cynicism and darkness with intelligence.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:You know, it's the old, I think it's like a Seinfeld thing of like, if you ever want to look smart, you just seem like frustrated or something.
Marc:I look like a fucking genius all the time.
Marc:I fool some people.
Marc:Hey, you're a genius.
Marc:No, I'm not.
Marc:I'm just anxious and aggravated.
Marc:Don't misread me.
Guest:About my cornflakes.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That got soggy.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:So fucking angry.
Guest:The day is done.
Guest:The day is done.
Guest:It's fucked.
Guest:So dark.
Guest:Breakfast was a disaster.
Guest:Still holding on to it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Two days later.
Guest:But that's what they did.
Guest:And with Kelvin, the actor who plays Christian, he does it so beautifully.
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Marc:It really was.
Marc:I mean, I do like watching those things.
Marc:And I do start to think about how many of these kind of period piece musicals are just tragic as fuck.
Marc:But because they're musicals, you're like, it makes it so different.
Marc:The singing makes it different.
Marc:You forgive everything.
Marc:Well, it actually delivers the goods of tragedy in a way that you can absorb, you know, because, like, you know, the tragic ending in general, you know, you sort of want to avoid it because we're all headed there.
Marc:But when it's about love and broken hearts and unrequited love and stuff like I, you know, I get the tension of that.
Marc:But I think that when there's song and when it is elevated in that way, you can process it differently and enables you to have feelings that you might not have been able to handle if it was just straight up.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That doesn't mean it's softer, though, right?
Guest:No.
Guest:That doesn't mean it's easier, more palatable.
Marc:No, but as I get older, I'm like, I don't know if I want to watch it if it's going to be devastating.
Marc:I don't feel like dealing with it.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And this is an emotionally devastating classical story, and I imagine that...
Marc:The original is played with some humor, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where this is like, it's not played with humor, but because of the music, you actually experience it in a deeper way.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, there's some humor to it, but the music does lift it out of the quagmire of the tragedy quite often, and that's...
Guest:And then, you know, musicals, I like some of them.
Marc:I'm just sort of a sucker for, I don't watch a lot of them, but when I find myself doing it, I get very emotional right away just because people are singing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:I don't know why.
Guest:And like Stephen Zahnheim.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Rest in peace.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:not the Tim Burton version, but when Sweeney Todd came along, that just sort of, that was like a true West moment for me with musicals.
Guest:Because it was not your average musical narrative.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:This is a musical about a guy who slits people's throats out of revenge and makes meat pies out of them.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:I'm all in.
Guest:I'm so in.
Guest:And it's brilliantly done with music that gives you goosebumps.
Guest:The writer Emerald Fennell just did a version of Cinderella with Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Guest:And they redid the whole thing, made Prince Charming gay.
Guest:The whole nine years.
Marc:Maybe she should be the one to take on Snow White.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Yeah, she's forward thinking.
Guest:She's forward thinking, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, we're working on a Rumpelstiltskin right now.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, that's gonna hopefully change the wheel a little bit.
Marc:Blow some minds?
Marc:I hope so.
Guest:Rumpelstiltskin's back.
Guest:Dude.
Guest:Great talking to you.
Guest:But nobody knows that story, so we can do anything.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Is that it?
Guest:We're done?
Marc:Yeah, unless you got a closing thought.
Marc:Sorry.
Marc:I'm just sad that I don't have, I usually give people a mug and I'm out of them and I'm going to have to get you a mug at a different time.
Marc:That's my big sadness.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Now it's mine.
Marc:No, like an actual WTF mug.
Marc:You can get a Paris mug in New York, but I appreciate you licking it like that with somehow like, oh no, Dinklage licked the cup.
Marc:You got to take it home.
Marc:All right, buddy.
Marc:Just a little bit of COVID.
Marc:Have fun.
Guest:And how long are you going to be in L.A.?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's all a jet lag.
Guest:Are you here for a little while?
Guest:Just a week.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Well, have fun out there.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you, everybody out there.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:Podcast land.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Peter Dinklage.
Marc:Cyrano will get a wide release in theaters beginning February 25th.
Marc:Peter is nominated for the Critics' Choice Award for Best Actor.
Marc:It was very exciting and fun to talk to him.
Marc:I hope I can do my shows this week.
Marc:You will know if I can't.
Marc:I just look, I feel all right.
Marc:I feel like I could, but I can't go out there in the world without a negative test.
Marc:So if you don't hear from me, all systems go.
Marc:Or somebody.
Marc:You know.
Marc:You know it is.
Marc:But you know what's up.
Marc:I don't even know how many of you are listening now.
Marc:I'm going to try some finger picking.
Marc:Distorted finger picking on my electric guitar.
Marc:It's very hard for me to stay focused.
Marc:Generally.
Marc:It's not a COVID thing.
guitar solo
Guest:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.
Guest:It's close.
Marc:I'm working on my finger picking.
Marc:Very simple.