Episode 129 - Janeane Garofalo / Mike DeStefano live
Guest:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuck, nears?
Marc:What the fuck, nots?
Marc:What the fuck, nicks?
Marc:How's everybody doing?
Marc:I hope you're having a happy Hanukkah if you go the way of the Jew.
Marc:If you go the way of the Jew that lights candles, I hope you're having a fun time lighting your candles.
Marc:Lighting your candles with your children, with your family.
Marc:I am lighting my candles alone this year.
Marc:Not alone.
Marc:Jessica's hanging out, but she doesn't seem to give a shit one way or the other, which is fine.
Marc:I've had women in my life that pretended to give a shit and encouraged me to light candles.
Marc:I'm not a religious Jew in any way, but for some reason I'm lighting the candles.
Marc:I think one of the reasons is that I dug out the menorah when I heard it was the first night of Hanukkah, which I was unaware of until after sundown.
Marc:So I already fucked it up.
Marc:And I found a box of candles that had been sitting in the cabinet for what must have been a few years.
Marc:And I guess because the cabinet is close to the ceiling, the heat hadn't had twisted and bent them all.
Marc:They were just a big sort of colorful ganglia of unlit candles.
Marc:And I pulled them apart and I've insisted upon lighting them in their twisted, bent, melted form.
Marc:Which brings an entirely new experience to the Hanukkah experience.
Marc:Which brings an entirely new tone to the Hanukkah experience.
Marc:Put the second one in, Brendan.
Marc:A trippy tone, if you will, a sort of it's just a little twisted, obviously, but it's been kind of fun for me.
Marc:I've forgotten the second Hanukkah prayer.
Marc:I know I could Google it, but I'm just going with what I know.
Marc:I have an old kippah, a yarmulke, you know, Jew hat, whatever you want to call them that I've been putting on.
Marc:And I'm doing it.
Marc:I'm not sure why it's connecting me with something I don't feel any deep.
Marc:need to do it but i do enjoy all the bent candles so if that's a reason the festival of lights for me this year is bent twisted candles i hope you're all doing okay welcome to the show this is wtf we have a great show today janine garofalo an old friend of mine is going to sit down and talk with me let me do this right now pow whoa i just shit my pants because i'm drinking just coffee dot co-op wtf roast
Marc:If you go to justcoffee.coop and get the WTF roast, which is the subheading on it is WTF roast.
Marc:Go ahead.
Marc:You know you want to.
Marc:And then it says complex, spicy, and chocolatey.
Marc:That's me.
Marc:But if you get that, I get a little bit of money from that.
Marc:But also feel around the justcoffee.coop site.
Marc:And find yourself a blend.
Marc:It's great stuff.
Marc:And they have been a sponsor of mine for a long time.
Marc:And I hope they're good gifts.
Marc:Good gifts.
Marc:Just coffee.coop.
Marc:Also, good gifts.
Marc:I don't mean to sell.
Marc:I'm not doing the hard sell right out of the gate.
Marc:But the new cat shirts are flying off the shelf, my friends.
Marc:If you go to WTF pod dot com, go to the merch thing.
Marc:Get yourself a new cat shirt or a new WTF shirt flying off the shelves.
Marc:Now available in American apparel for no extra price onward with the show.
Marc:Let's start with an email.
Marc:Also, forgot to mention special edition to this show.
Marc:Mike DeStefano in a live moment from one of our live tapings of comics to sort of.
Marc:I'm going to tease a bit, as we say in the business, Thursday's episode, which will be an hour with Mike DiStefano, who is by far one of the more interesting and, you know, it's some real shit.
Marc:And I'm not going to say more than that.
Marc:Let's get on with how I want to open this Hanukkah show, mid-Hanukkah show.
Marc:I got an email from a guy named Jonathan.
Marc:And I had to think about this.
Marc:I read emails sometimes, but I wanted to read this one.
Marc:Hi, Marc Maron.
Marc:I bet most people who write are hoping to get their letters read on the air, and I guess my ego would really dig it, but I don't think I really care that much either way.
Marc:Honestly, I will, of course, leave it up to you.
Marc:Okay, Jonathan, I've chosen to read part of your email.
Marc:So here's why I'm writing.
Marc:Thank you for bringing your show to us.
Marc:I love thinking, thinking about thinking, and hearing others thinking and thinking about their thinking.
Marc:But I have a fear.
Marc:I did a little bit in showbiz, quote unquote showbiz in Portland, Oregon.
Marc:OK, in the early 90s and got a big taste of showbiz attitude.
Marc:I'm talking line producers, crew, PAs, talent, agents, et cetera, et cetera.
Marc:Of course, it was hideous bullshit.
Marc:Only occasionally did it poop out a little nugget of truth.
Marc:And in parentheses, drugstore cowboy, my own private Idaho.
Marc:We also crapped out Maverick.
Marc:with Mel Gibson gathering evidence with nobody and a piece of shit Harvey Keitel made called imaginary crimes.
Marc:I got a taste of how desperately we all wanted to make it in caps.
Marc:Every one of us.
Marc:So how does this apply to me?
Marc:You're wondering, my what the fuck friends.
Marc:Let's let's move on.
Marc:So what I'm thinking and what I'm hearing in your voice as time passes and WTF gets more and more popular is that hunger in your voice, that desire and need for fame, adulation, money, influence, et cetera, et cetera.
Marc:I know you're moving on in years.
Marc:All right, Jonathan, you know, OK, and do have an honest need for financial security.
Marc:That is true, Jonathan.
Marc:But you just got to do it without selling out.
Marc:You have to, please, because what you're all about is not selling out.
Marc:That's why we love you, your voice, your ideas.
Marc:You're going to get a huge money offer soon.
Marc:And he didn't write money.
Marc:He wrote several for four dollar signs.
Marc:You're going to get a huge one, two, three, four dollar signs offer soon if you haven't already in parentheses.
Marc:I have not.
Marc:If you do, do me a favor and talk it over with us first and listen to our tweets and emails about it.
Marc:And you know if it sounds too good to be true, it is.
Marc:I'm not asking you to stay in poverty for life, but remember, the average American earns about $35,000 a year, and that really is not bad.
Marc:The average Kenyan earns something like $300 a year and is probably happier than most Americans.
Marc:I will have to ponder that, Jonathan.
Marc:And certainly, for God's sakes, you don't think I would take a business opportunity, something that is personal and that I have to think over without tweeting it.
Marc:I mean, the idea that I would move forward with any sort of creative or financial opportunity without first...
Marc:tweeting it to my 20,000 or so followers whose opinions I value greatly is ridiculous.
Marc:I mean, Jonathan, I will call you first if I have anything even percolating.
Marc:Before I go to meetings, I'll start to make sure to bring everybody into the fold.
Marc:I'm not being condescending here, but I can't alert you to every thing I'm thinking about.
Marc:I understand your concern.
Marc:Let's go on.
Marc:So please, for God's sake, stay away from the showbiz industry.
Marc:Hell, stay away from any industry.
Marc:Just keep talking and good things will happen and you'll be fine, just like you are now.
Marc:I know you know all this, but I just wanted to make sure I said it before it was too late.
Marc:You know that dude, Will Ferrell's business partner?
Marc:He sure was interesting and funny and all, but you could tell from his voice that he could have a $1 million cashier's check in his hand in 15 minutes if he needed it, and that has changed him forever.
Marc:Keep on talking.
Marc:Thank you, Jonathan.
Marc:So you're telling me that Adam McKay can have a million-dollar cashier's check like that, and that's changing forever, and the implications is that that is somehow negative.
Marc:Okay, again, I don't want to be condescending.
Marc:I appreciate the letter.
Marc:Thank you, Jonathan.
Marc:And I want you to understand that you don't get to where I am in your career if the opportunities have been just pounding on your door.
Marc:Clearly, if I get any opportunity at this point in my career, be it that I am moving on in years, or how did he phrase it?
Marc:Yes, moving on in years.
Marc:It'll probably be...
Marc:I'm relatively in line with what I am doing.
Marc:No one's going to ask me to put on a clown suit, which I'm not adverse to clowns.
Marc:I'd actually like to explore clowning a bit.
Marc:But but hopefully I hope you're right that I get a one, two, three, four.
Marc:dollar sign offer soon, but I imagine it'll be somewhat appropriate to me.
Marc:Uh, but I appreciate your concern.
Marc:And certainly I will, we'll make sure to pass through any potential large financial offers, uh, through the Twitter sphere and, uh, and through you, uh, Jonathan.
Marc:And I, and I appreciate your concern, but I can tell you honestly, right now, there is no great worry of me all of a sudden selling out.
Marc:And quite honestly, as much as I appreciate your, um,
Marc:sentiment about uh the average kenyan earning 300 a year i i really could not get by in that i i just i'm thinking about it now i i wouldn't even be able to record the podcast so if we could get somewhere between 300 a year and your 35 000 a year number that would be that would be that'd be better but quite honestly i'd like to make a little more than that
Marc:Not asking for a pool, not asking for another house even, just maybe a little more, a little more so I don't have to worry too much.
Marc:And, you know, I'm going on too long.
Marc:Let's get to Janine Garofalo.
Marc:Yeah, move it close to you too.
Marc:Remember that?
Guest:I got my cans on.
Guest:Yeah, feels familiar.
Guest:It does feel familiar.
Guest:It feels good.
Marc:Janine Garofalo in the garage here at the Cat Ranch after being lost for 40 minutes in South Pasadena.
Guest:Longer than that.
Guest:It took me an hour and 15 minutes to get from West Hollywood to you.
Marc:For some reason, I thought you were the kind of person where, because of your aversion to everything that moves things across wires or on wheels that you just didn't drive.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, no, I do drive.
Guest:I'm not a complete Luddite.
Guest:I do drive.
Guest:I didn't know.
Guest:And I even had a map printed out of how to get here.
Guest:It's not my fault that the Marmian Way exit all of a sudden turned into train tracks in South Pasadena.
Marc:But you actually had said that, not unlike many people, that this might as well have been Mars.
Marc:You didn't know where you were going, what part of that way.
Guest:Well, I don't live here.
Guest:It might as well have been Mars in so far as I do not live here.
Guest:So I did not mean that as to...
Guest:No, no, people... To criticize the area.
Marc:No, I know, I know, I know.
Guest:I've never been to this area before.
Marc:Do you like driving?
Guest:No, I can't stand it.
Guest:But I don't like it, especially in Los Angeles, where everything takes forever.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Guest:The 101 South was at a standstill.
Marc:On Saturday afternoon.
Guest:On a Saturday afternoon, it was at a standstill.
Guest:Like I said, it shouldn't have taken an hour and 15 minutes to get here.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The getting lost was just the icing on the cake.
Marc:And you were in a parking lot of a liquor store and a cop couldn't even.
Guest:And a policeman couldn't even tell me where I was going.
Marc:That's a sad, lost feeling where you approach a cop thinking that it's your job.
Marc:You should know all of this.
Guest:But I think also he was thrown because I kept saying Eagle Rock.
Guest:I was under the impression you lived in Eagle Rock.
Marc:We're close to Eagle Rock.
Marc:He should have figured it out.
Guest:Well, you said Eagle Rock.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:You said that.
Guest:No, you did at UCB.
Guest:You said Eagle Rock.
Guest:It's Eagle Rock.
Marc:Okay, sometimes I say that not to scare people.
Marc:Some people hear Highland Park and they're like, I don't know where that is.
Marc:And they go, Eagle Rock, I've heard of that.
Guest:Okay, well, it wouldn't have frightened me one way or the other.
Guest:And it certainly wound up being counterproductive.
Guest:But be that as it may, I'm here now.
Guest:I'm glad.
Guest:I love your house.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I'm glad to see a new area.
Guest:It's beautiful.
Marc:And now you can say you were in South Pasadena.
Guest:And now I can say I was in South Pasadena.
Marc:At the parking lot of a liquor store.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:So now tell me if we could start with that.
Marc:What are you doing out here?
Marc:You don't really like being here, do you?
Guest:I don't dislike it actually at all.
Guest:I don't enjoy the driving and the constant sun and heat.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I enjoy...
Guest:Being in L.A., I enjoy seeing my friends who live here.
Guest:I enjoy working.
Guest:So it's not it's much nicer to have a job.
Guest:So I'm here doing TV shows on the air at the yet.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think goes on in January.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But so I am thrilled to be working and I am thrilled to see the friends I don't see when I'm in New York.
Marc:Who do you hang out with out here?
Guest:Well, I see you.
Guest:Well, I work Monday through Friday.
Guest:And then on Saturday and Sunday, if the hanging out involves driving, I usually don't do it.
Guest:Only because I try and walk everywhere that I can.
Guest:So if I can walk to hang out with somebody, I'll do that.
Guest:So I'm sort of limited.
Marc:Yeah, many people have Janine Garofalo sightings walking rapidly.
Guest:I saw you walking, yeah.
Guest:And they will comment on how I walk.
Marc:Yeah, you power walk.
Guest:With purpose.
Marc:Yeah, walk with purpose.
Guest:It's not a power walk for cardio reasons.
Guest:I just happen to like to get from point A to point B with alacrity.
Guest:But I see people at Largo and UCB and Tiger Lily and things like that.
Marc:You've been going to the shows?
Marc:Been going to the shows.
Marc:You know, it's interesting because a lot of the conversations that I have around you lately,
Marc:And we both come from the same world where we came from.
Marc:I actually got a call from a lawyer yesterday about Air America because I'd gotten part of some sort of civil suit around their bankruptcy because I was a creditor because they didn't pay off my contract.
Marc:And he basically called to tell me that they were moving from Chapter 11 to full-on bankruptcy and it doesn't look like anyone's getting paid.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That's a shock.
Guest:I really didn't expect to hear you say that.
Guest:I could have sworn you were going to.
Marc:Yeah, that is a million dollars coming.
Marc:I only didn't even ask for that much.
Marc:But we come from that.
Marc:And and lately, you know, it's not that I find myself in a position to defend you.
Marc:But, you know, people have pigeonholed you because of the politics.
Marc:And, you know, I got that, too.
Marc:And I find myself.
Marc:you know, actively trying to not separate myself from my political views so much as separate myself from Air America and what that represented to certain people.
Marc:And to also, you know, talk about politics in a practical way, how it affects me, as opposed to feeling like I'm carrying water for the left or for the Democrats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it doesn't if you're a male most ordinarily.
Guest:There are people like Viggo Mortensen and Will Ferrell and Alec Baldwin and others who are quite politically active and vocal who are not penalized.
Guest:Whereas a lot of times females who are vocal...
Guest:suddenly find themselves less able to work as much.
Guest:And I know it sounds like, you know, who cares, quality problems.
Marc:But isn't that in general?
Guest:That's in general.
Guest:There is a double standard in general.
Guest:Just behaviors are looked at.
Guest:And same for people of color.
Guest:People of color and women are not afforded the same latitude and leeway for their behavior in the workplace as white males are.
Marc:Well, my question comes around to now that you're back and we haven't been involved with Air America for a while, and I think we both seem to be back to doing a kind of more personal, more broad-based comedy.
Marc:Like when I first knew you, and that's what people are saying about you as well, is that you seem to be back in your own body about your life.
Marc:That, you know, when we're immersed in politics and it's our agenda is to serve that, you know, and to speak out like that, that you don't really engage your life.
Marc:Well, you did less than me.
Marc:I mean, I can't help it because I had a hard time maintaining all the information necessary.
Marc:So I was always sort of, you know, 70 percent my cats and 30 percent politics.
Marc:But it seems to me that now, you know, you're addressing your life, your age, your insecurities.
Marc:your struggles as a woman and as a person, again, on stage in a way that you really haven't in about 15 years.
Guest:Well, you know, sometimes, but then sometimes, you know, this whole Tea Party movement, Obama then, it sort of started up again as the Tea Party movement.
Guest:That has affected my stand-up quite a bit.
Guest:The newfound racism, you know, and all the apologists for it.
Guest:That sort of got me galvanized in a way that...
Guest:As you're talking about, my stand-up was more personal, confessional, if you will.
Guest:But the Tea Party and also how it's mischaracterized as a populist movement, that has affected my stand-up more.
Guest:So there is some nights much more political stuff.
Guest:And it's not an agenda.
Guest:This is our lives, you know what I mean?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And, you know, I...
Guest:got a lot of grief over going on Keith Oberman and Bill Maher.
Guest:This is right when Obama got into office and I was tracking through watching the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Guest:Morris Dees doing this great work tracking hate groups and things like this.
Guest:And this was catching my attention when Obama announced his candidacy.
Guest:All this movement that started happening that...
Guest:eventually feeds into this Tea Party movement too, this racist rhetoric that was stirring up and things of that nature.
Guest:And it started really affecting me and getting me, as I was telling you when I went on Obermann and Bill Maher, this is a while ago, and pointed out that
Guest:The Tea Party was a racist movement.
Guest:I lost a voiceover job within days for Weight Watchers and also started getting hate mail like I used to get during the Bush era that had to ebbed a while.
Guest:And then, you know, this whole bashing of of.
Guest:of me and marginalizing me that come from certain areas started up again.
Guest:And then there was going to be and, you know, there's a pilot you and I did many years ago that was pulled.
Guest:And I think it was ABC.
Guest:Do you remember?
Marc:Yeah, we talked about that.
Marc:I think the last time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was because of a supposed letter writing campaign and threat of a boycott from these people.
Marc:Because these people watch television.
Guest:Yeah, but of course it was coming from just one, I think a guy named James Alvarez or whatever his name was.
Guest:He was pretending to be a lot of people.
Guest:You know how cowardly network people are.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:They assume it's representing a ton of people, but it doesn't go the other way.
Guest:All the people that are not writing letters, they don't assume represent a certain amount.
Marc:But let me ask you this just on a human level.
Marc:Now, you know, I know, as you know, that arguing with people that are set in their agenda and believe things that are contrary to facts, even if you show them the facts, because their belief system is buttressed by Fox News or people like Glenn Beck.
Marc:And even if facts are presented in context, they'll decide that you're spinning it and that books are some sort of liberal weapon.
Marc:Now, given that that's the belief of people and.
Marc:And given that there is this ability to lead angry, ignorant people the way they do, I mean, let's talk about what really does happen.
Marc:Where's the breaking point?
Guest:But also, this is not even about me arguing with anyone.
Guest:This is about being asked a direct question on these shows.
Guest:What do you think moves this Tea Party movement?
Guest:Racism, fear, anxiety, hate.
Guest:That's not arguing with someone.
Guest:I'm stating a fact.
Guest:And what I've become increasingly disgusted with, it's changing a little bit now.
Guest:And Matt Taibbi has written an interesting piece in Rolling Stone, as he always does, recently about the truth about the Tea Party.
Guest:But how many apologists for racism?
Guest:And the same way during the Bush era.
Marc:Who are the apologists?
Guest:If you go on any mainstream media and even people in our peer group, oh, it's a populist movement.
Guest:It is not a populist movement.
Marc:But let's say that the way we talk about this stuff and we call this stuff out is fine.
Marc:But what I'd like to talk about, and I don't know that we do talk about, is then how do you deal with it?
Marc:Now, it's like if you're going to accept that these people are unmovable, they're unchangeable, their ignorance is malignant, and it's impossible to transcend, then how does America regroup itself?
Guest:Well, I'm not speaking in those terms that you are.
Guest:What I'm saying is this is a...
Guest:Racism is part of the fabric of ours and many countries.
Guest:That is the nature of the human condition.
Guest:From the very founding of this country, there has been a stratification and a hierarchy that has been dominated by white males, much to the chagrin of the Native Americans and women and anybody else who's ever come here or was here or came through Ellis Island.
Guest:Be that as it may.
Guest:That the fact of racism exists, it would be odd now that we have a black president that it was not here now.
Guest:And it's so strange to have to to act like it's way out of bounds and in poor taste that someone like me or you or anyone brings it up.
Guest:And, you know, then you'll have people that will cite alleged journalistic objectivity, which is just the coward's way out.
Guest:won't weigh in one way or the other.
Marc:But I think a lot of people are trying to make a broader assumption in thinking that most people are not that.
Guest:That even that people... Oh yeah, most people may not be.
Guest:We're not talking about most people.
Marc:No, but this is a dominant cultural meme here and it's a dominant cultural movement.
Marc:What I'm saying is that it's my belief that everybody is just trying to get by and that the more anger there is in an individual, the more likely they are going to fall victim to either...
Marc:You know, hurting themselves, hurting their families, you know, making wrong choices, you know, hurting, you know, you know, ending up, you know, saturated in alcohol or drugs or depressed or whatever.
Marc:And that, you know, whatever outlet they're offered, you know, depending on the range of their education, they will be exploited, whether it's to buy things, whether it's to buy drugs, whether it's to buy, you know, things they don't need.
Marc:which is what fuels capitalism, whether it's going to make their desires easily exploited.
Marc:But on a political level, the same type of anger and despair is utilized to exploit for political movements.
Marc:So I seem to be focusing more on the individual struggle and trying to figure out solutions around that.
Marc:But I'm just trying to figure out...
Marc:What do we see happening politically?
Marc:I mean, what I know what the worst case scenario is.
Marc:The worst case scenario is that, you know, everyone's sitting around going Sarah Palin is not a viable candidate on both sides and she ends up president.
Guest:No, here's what I think will happen because, you know, the right wingers never ultimately win or else we'd still own slaves and I wouldn't be voting.
Guest:So democracy does work on some level.
Guest:I don't know if you want to call it democracy.
Guest:It's called progress, evolution, time.
Guest:Time marches on.
Guest:It just marches on.
Marc:Right, but evolution also supports racist agendas if it's utilized improperly and if it's thought of improperly.
Guest:I'm not going to say this is no different.
Guest:This is commensurate in certain ways with whenever there is strides made for a group—
Guest:Say it's the first black athlete on a team or the first woman working in this company.
Guest:It galvanizes all this negative energy until that dissipates and then we move forward.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:So we're in this.
Guest:Unfortunately, we happen to be in this time.
Guest:of great strife that will eventually move us forward.
Guest:Eventually, in the same way that my nephews and nieces will think it's absurd that gay people couldn't get married, in the same way that you and I find it odd that African Americans couldn't walk in the front door of a building, right?
Guest:It seems inconceivable to us now sitting here.
Guest:And some, you know what I'm saying?
Guest:This will all seem inconceivable.
Marc:So you believe in evolutionary supported by majority rule and that most people are good and that the American political system on some level.
Guest:This has nothing to do with a political system.
Guest:It's people moving forward.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:But I mean, but like, you know, when I talked to my friend, I remember years ago when Jim Loftus was working on the inside at the Clinton White House and I was freaking out about New Gingrich and I thought that this was it.
Marc:We were entering a stage of a type of fascism in America and a type of political rule.
Guest:Which is accurate.
Guest:No.
Marc:But he said about Gingrich specifically and that Congress, he said, this town will spit him out.
Marc:And over time, it did.
Guest:Well, it takes him a while.
Marc:But that's right.
Marc:It's a slow process.
Marc:But I think in terms of what you're calling evolution and in terms of what we know as America, that you have a certain amount of hope that that good will prevail and that people will evolve in a different way.
Guest:Because I'm just going on evidence to support that.
Guest:Like I said, time has marched on and women are voting and we have multiculturalism.
Guest:It just happens.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:We have a black president and that's a very good thing.
Guest:What is a very bad thing is that unleashes all this, all the seven deadlies in certain types of people.
Marc:But that's not really true because there have been time has marched on and created technocratic fascist systems that exterminated graces of people.
Guest:And yes, and then you go beyond that.
Marc:But that's a horrible price to pay, and we're barely beyond it.
Guest:Yes, you're right.
Guest:It is a horrible price to pay, because there will always be, in the human condition, small groups of people who will wield a tremendous amount of power and do a lot of damage.
Marc:I understand.
Marc:But what I want to know is, what do you see as a solution?
Guest:I don't know if I see a solution per se.
Guest:I can think of a number of things that would be helpful.
Guest:Media reform, first and foremost.
Guest:I mean, it's absurd.
Guest:I don't know that that will ever happen.
Marc:What we're doing is pretty exciting.
Guest:This is great, and I'm glad that there is much more citizen journalism.
Guest:I'm glad that there's guys like Matt Taibbi.
Guest:I'm glad that there's Rachel Maddow.
Guest:I'm glad that there's people online doing their thing.
Marc:But that's not citizen journalism.
Marc:I mean, that's legitimate journalism.
Guest:But they are citizens.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But they are, you know, they are serving the citizens.
Guest:They don't serve their corporate master.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:They are citizens first and foremost.
Guest:Their consciousness as humans overrides their workplace environment.
Marc:Do you think that there is a possibility sometimes that the amount of information available, you know, given the nature of the Internet and given the ability for people to cherry pick information to buttress their personal agendas is somehow a negative thing?
Guest:It can be.
Guest:Of course it can be.
Guest:But that's that is also part of the human condition.
Marc:Again, you're relying on the responsibility of the individual pursuing the information to make choices for themselves.
Guest:You have to be you know, this is all limbic brain stuff in neuroscience.
Guest:We've discussed this before.
Guest:You have to want it to be a certain way.
Guest:Your personality comes before your politics.
Marc:What would you like to see happen?
Guest:I would like to see a media reform.
Guest:I would like to see people get real honest and have their conscience, serve their conscience.
Guest:Say we're sitting on an alleged news show, and I use the word news very loosely, and the journalist will claim objectivity by allowing one person to lie.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Of the he said, she said binary.
Guest:That's got to stop because it's killing us.
Guest:And the way we coddle war criminals, corporate criminals and racists, not to mention hoarders, they get treated very gently.
Guest:But that's not harming us.
Guest:But if you look at war criminals and corporate criminals and cultural criminals, the kid gloves they are treated with in the mainstream media is shocking.
Guest:There is at least the level of criticism that you see on American Idol would be nice.
Marc:Well, because I don't think that people any longer know what objective reporting is.
Marc:I don't know that there's any barometer tethering anybody who takes in.
Guest:How about the truth?
Guest:There is such a thing as absolute truth.
Guest:When you have a racist sitting across from you or a homophobe, it is well within your duty and right as a citizen.
Guest:To point that out, when you know that the election was stolen in Ansel and Scalia and Clarence Thomas should have recused themselves from the vote that stole that election of 2000, as a journalist and a citizen, you should point that out.
Marc:But sometimes as a citizen, people are like, ah, this stuff, I don't understand it.
Marc:That guy's a douchebag.
Marc:I got to eat.
Guest:I'm talking about a person behind a news desk.
Marc:OK, but I but OK, that that's that's civic responsibility and that's media responsibility.
Marc:But what I'm saying is that individuals who are disengaged from the process of politics are no even they don't even know how it serves them.
Marc:Or what, you know, necessarily Medicare is or what any of this stuff is.
Marc:And they don't take the time or have the time to engage in that process or do their civic duty.
Marc:How do we elevate their interest in taking part in making this country a better place without making just shitty decisions based on fucking hate?
Guest:I would say that for most people...
Guest:It has to affect them personally.
Guest:They have to feel it.
Marc:But then how do they take that disenfranchised and that anger?
Marc:Yeah, but that anger is always so misdirected.
Marc:And half of what you're calling the Tea Party movement and this uninformed, ignorant anger are people that should be looking for better solutions.
Guest:Well, why weren't they angry during the Bush era?
Guest:They were fine.
Marc:Because there was a bully in charge and that made them feel like they had a friend.
Guest:But what I'm saying is, is it's wrong to imbue them.
Guest:They're angry and they are, you know, they should have been out in full force since 2000.
Guest:They were not.
Marc:So where are the leaders that are going to bring them out?
Guest:Oh, I have no idea.
Guest:And this is I'm not calling myself a leader.
Guest:I'm not even saying there's a thing like.
Guest:How do I tell this person?
Guest:Because I'm not coming from a place of arrogance.
Marc:Why aren't there people that speak this language?
Marc:This is a language that was spoken in the 60s by people that had tremendous courage.
Guest:There are plenty of people who do that.
Marc:But why are they not effectively leading?
Guest:Maybe they are.
Guest:That's a broad brush you're painting them with.
Guest:There's plenty of people effectively leading and plenty of people speaking...
Guest:The truth.
Guest:But most of them are not in mainstream media.
Marc:How do you make it entertaining?
Guest:I don't need it to be entertaining.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But people do.
Marc:How do you capture the heart?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Do they?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:The truth is fascinating.
Guest:It really, really is.
Guest:No, I know.
Marc:But how do you capture their hearts to pay attention to it in the proper way?
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:But if the news actually told the truth, it would be fascinating.
Marc:It would be great.
Guest:It would really be good.
Guest:But also, there's plenty of people who are, you know, Jon Stewart just being one of them, who are...
Guest:capturing the imagination of a nation and getting a lot of good work done through comedy.
Marc:I am glad that you're optimistic.
Guest:Well, how could I not be?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You could be cynical.
Marc:I think some people mistake you as cynical.
Guest:Well, cynicism is not a bad thing.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:That doesn't offend me.
Guest:Oh, I know.
Guest:You know, cynicism is a very healthy thing.
Guest:I prefer to think of it as pragmatism.
Guest:And you know what I mean?
Guest:I just don't take things at face value.
Guest:And also, I care.
Guest:You know, like I said earlier, I don't want life to just happen to me.
Guest:Now, it does to some degree.
Guest:There's nothing I can do about that.
Guest:But I'm going down swinging.
Guest:That's all I can say to you is that I I refuse to be bullied by a system.
Guest:Now, I can't help some of the bullying that happens and I can't help this dirty air that I'm breathing and I can't help this political system that is corrupt.
Guest:But I but I I.
Guest:I am not going to complacently just go, oh, that's the way it is.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or this bothers me when I have these discussions with others in my peer group who keep characterizing the Tea Party as just one example.
Marc:Who the fuck says that they're just populists?
Guest:Populists, plenty of people.
Guest:But they'll say this on the heels of it.
Guest:I prefer to see the good in people.
Guest:I'm an optimist.
Guest:No, you're a fucking coward.
Guest:Don't pretend because you don't know what's going on or you don't give a shit.
Guest:That makes you an optimist or a good person.
Guest:And really what they're also saying is it doesn't affect me.
Guest:That's really what they're saying.
Marc:That is true.
Guest:And the same with The Rock.
Guest:Back in the day when you and I would be so emotionally upset about this and there'd be people who were...
Guest:Sort of, you know, I don't want to rock the boat.
Guest:It's not them.
Guest:Really, that's what they're saying.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Doesn't affect me.
Guest:Doesn't affect me.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:I don't accept that.
Guest:And I don't want to live that way.
Guest:This stuff has to square with my consciousness.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:What's that poem that sort of when they came for the so-and-so?
Guest:Yes, yes, yes.
Guest:I know what you mean, but I don't know.
Guest:What is that thing?
Marc:Who wrote that?
Marc:Is that like a Jewish thing?
Guest:I don't know, but somebody just recently told me about it again.
Guest:But also Gustav Le Bon's The Crowd.
Guest:I always point to that, too, about human nature and how people act in groups.
Guest:But it really bothers me when people say things I prefer to see the good in people.
Marc:Martin Neumauer.
Marc:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it doesn't make you an optimist or a good person to deny social injustice or to pretend that somehow you want to give people the benefit of the doubt and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:It's endlessly frustrating.
Guest:But I do realize that the sound of my voice is so strident and annoying.
Guest:I'll give you that, that I actually annoy myself sometimes talking.
Guest:Well, I mean, but I get this is I get very emotional about it because it really is.
Guest:There's a lot of people and I'm not one of them because, you know, this doesn't actually affect me.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'm not being victimized by this racism.
Guest:I'm not being victimized by this economic injustice.
Guest:But it hurts.
Guest:It hurts me just the same, you know.
Marc:Let's talk about then this idea, the pursuit of happiness.
Guest:Surely.
Marc:And how that has been, you know, that a lot of people seem to think it's their entitlement and their personal agenda and the necessity and the whole struggle is to be happy.
Guest:Yeah, they act like brides.
Guest:You know, it's my day.
Guest:I deserve it.
Guest:It's my day.
Guest:It's the bride mentality.
Guest:The pursuit of what you deserve.
Guest:What do we deserve?
Guest:Nothing, really.
Guest:Nothing.
Marc:But for you personally, I mean, are you happy?
Marc:And is it something that you think about?
Guest:Sometimes it only depends on the day.
Marc:Is it like this pursuit of yours?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:There are some days where I'm absolutely comfortable in my own skin and very happy and I feel quite pleased and lucky.
Guest:Then there's other days where I'm as down...
Guest:as down can get to... I can't even put my finger on wine.
Marc:Is that usually brought on by something, or do you just write that off as neuroscience again, or... Bit of both.
Guest:Usually it's brought on by something, and it can be...
Guest:Something I see in the news or something someone says or I overhear that is – and it's going to sound like I'm trying to be so noble and I don't want to come off like I'm being that way.
Guest:But it usually revolves around if I see somebody being bullied or if I see animals being mistreated.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Even the thought of, you know, the way we treat animals and –
Guest:to me because they they do have advocates but they but they don't have as many advocates as humans do and they can't speak for themselves so they're and and just like with little children you know but i animals don't have the advocate advocates in place that that humans do to a degree so i can oversee someone in the dog park manhandling their dog and i'm done for the day i mean i'm so down uh i don't know i can't explain it i mean i
Marc:No, no.
Marc:You feel the pain of the animal.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:And the vulnerability and its inability to help itself.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Or if I even accidentally channel surf past animal cops and just catch a snippet, I'm down for the count for the day.
Guest:I mean, like...
Guest:which sounds quite self-indulgent.
Guest:I don't mean it to be, but to answer your question.
Guest:Or I will hear somebody being bullied, like two teenagers.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like some teenagers.
Marc:Where do you think that sensitivity comes from?
Guest:I don't know if it's sensitive.
Guest:Maybe everybody feels this way.
Marc:No, but I don't think like it's like there's a certain, you know, like feeling other people's pain to actually have a deep sense of empathy is something that eludes me occasionally.
Guest:Oh, it eludes me occasionally too.
Guest:But there's some people who I don't feel deserve my empathy and respect.
Marc:But were you bullied?
Guest:No, not really.
Marc:Were you ever a bully?
Guest:No.
Guest:When you were a kid?
Guest:I did have garden variety.
Guest:I had a very nice childhood.
Guest:Your garden variety bullying here and there.
Guest:I was an overweight kid.
Guest:Nothing that has done irreparable damage.
Marc:Because I find myself being sometimes, not an intellectual bully, but out of my own sense of
Marc:of defensiveness and fear of being hurt that I preemptively will try to hurt or defend myself.
Marc:Not hurt myself, but hurt others if I feel threatened by them.
Guest:Gosh.
Guest:If I am, I don't know if I'm doing that.
Guest:I hope I'm not doing that.
Guest:There have been times where out of fear, my voice raises and I'll try and
Guest:try and nip something in the butt, you know what I mean?
Guest:Like an interaction, sometimes at work or something.
Guest:You know what happens when I feel helpless?
Guest:Right.
Guest:If I feel helpless or not listened to at work, I become, I guess what could be considered a bully, but it's not what I mean.
Guest:But I start getting real motivated to get heard.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And it usually centers around content, writing, the writing of the scripts.
Guest:There's been a real issue.
Marc:Have you been called a prima donna before?
Guest:No, no, no, because it's not prima donna behavior.
Guest:And there is no other area at work where you could say I act like, believe me, there is no prima donna stuff.
Marc:It comes down to, you want me to say this, you want this to come out of my mouth?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It comes down to, I cannot say these lines.
Guest:This is not the best we can do.
Guest:This is lazy writing, or this is simplistic, and it's, you know, that type of thing.
Guest:And I start raising my voice because I feel helpless.
Guest:And a lot of it comes from, I feel, nobody...
Guest:thinks thinks i'm very talented anyway they don't even care they're just why do you say shit like no no i'm that's i'm i'm just telling you what it comes from no i know but you always you always defend this this weird uh you know self-abuse with this sort of like i'm just being i'm being objective no no i'm just telling you what these feelings are you are whether i'm right or wrong okay i'm telling you what you asked me a question i can only answer this question no i know that but you don't have to you qualify it be like i'm not talented
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:I'm saying it comes from I'm assuming people think I'm not.
Guest:And they're not trusting my instincts on the writing or trusting that I can make a different line worker.
Guest:I'm just in this one particular area, work related.
Guest:Then it comes also in the area of stand-up comedy.
Guest:Say I start talking about politics and somebody will start, oh, give it a rest.
Guest:Then I feel helpless or embarrassed almost.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Then I get... You feel rejected.
Guest:I feel rejected.
Guest:And then I might move toward anger, which could be construed as bullying, but I'm not because I really am quite sensitive to bullying.
Guest:I don't like it.
Guest:I don't like it in myself when I do it.
Guest:I feel a tremendous... It gives me no pleasure to have bullied someone.
Guest:And this week in particular at work, there is a writer who...
Guest:I think I moved to tears.
Guest:And this has upset me a great deal.
Guest:And I have tried to make amends.
Guest:I'm actually almost getting upset thinking about it.
Guest:My feeling of sorrow that I moved this writer to the brink of tears.
Marc:But I mean, that seems like less bullying and more, you know, just an inability to have a mutual experience in communication.
Guest:Yeah, we were not communicating.
Guest:We were not communicating.
Marc:Now, when I've seen you on stage, especially recently, there's a certain amount of doubt that you brought to the performances a few times that hurt my feelings.
Marc:Because I see you when you get beaten or when you feel like you're no longer engaging your audience in a way that they find satisfying, whether it be political or even personal, you seem to beat the shit out of yourself and take a sort of self-pitying position.
Marc:And then claim that it's objective.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because what if this is the way it is?
Marc:I'm bad.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because what if that's true?
Marc:But but but it's not it's this assumption that comes from a feeling and the verbalization of it is is something different.
Marc:It's not a matter of what is true and what isn't true.
Marc:You know, it's it's a way of protecting yourself from something else, too.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:Well, it's because I, like anyone who suffers from self-loathing, which is a problem.
Marc:Where does that come from?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's from childhood, and also I recognize it in my father.
Guest:I recognize it in my brother.
Guest:I don't know if it's nature or nurture.
Marc:But is it like self-hatred or just self-doubt?
Guest:Both.
Guest:It depends on the day.
Guest:Because there are some days where I don't have self-loathing at all, but there are some days where it's almost debilitating.
Guest:So when someone else criticizes me or I feel they're rejecting me, it's the straw that breaks the camel's back because I am already on that particular day.
Marc:You basically have two selves.
Marc:I have two selves.
Marc:There's one that will say, like, of course that person's right.
Marc:I'm a piece of shit.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And then if you're having a pretty good day, you're like, fuck you.
Guest:Right, but I never say it as fuck you.
Guest:I just feel like, no, they're not right today.
Right.
Guest:But some days I'm feeling pretty good and I'm pleased with who I am.
Guest:Then there's other days where I literally, I'm a bad match for myself, like a terrible match.com.
Guest:I am the worst person for myself.
Marc:And then what do you do?
Marc:Do you have people that you talk to?
Guest:Well, sometimes I talk about it on stage.
Marc:No, I know, but I'm finding that I'm a little troubled by the fact that I'm finding more intimate and true connection and relationship with the people that listen to this show or my audiences.
Marc:And then when I get off stage into my personal life, I'm a fucking disaster.
Guest:No, I'm pretty good in my personal life.
Guest:I do have good communication with people in my personal life.
Marc:Do you have confidants?
Marc:Do you have people that actually make you feel better and that enable you to express your emotions?
Guest:Sometimes, but also it's not always up to them and I don't want to burden them with that.
Guest:But Pete, my best friend Pete, we've been together for 12 years.
Guest:My boyfriend Pete is also my best friend.
Guest:We have very good communication.
Guest:Unfortunately, he struggles from some of the same things I do.
Guest:So this is not great for us sometimes.
Guest:He can get...
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:We are exactly the same, basically, which is not always great for a couple because we both suffer with self-loathing.
Guest:But we are both very good at when one's down, you know, the other will pick up the slack and and and modulate there.
Guest:Even if we're both in the self-loathing, somebody's got to not for for that.
Guest:time when somebody's unleashing on the other.
Guest:And so that works out really well.
Guest:Plus, it's really helpful to do stand-up comedy and to discuss these things.
Guest:Now, sometimes it's not always entertaining for the audience, but sometimes you really do strike a chord with the audience.
Guest:Oddly, it's specificity that's the most universal.
Guest:And there's an amazing thing that happens sometimes when you're very, very honest about these things, especially in the clubs like UCB or Largo, where you have kind of a different kind of audience sometimes, where you're really communicating.
Guest:And after the show, you'll find that you've really struck a chord.
Guest:And that's an unbelievably helpful thing.
Guest:Then there's a show Sam Seder and I did in Aspen, which had me so down for days where part of the thing I was talking about was the Tea Party thing being racist.
Guest:And people walked out in droves, hissed me.
Guest:Some people were booing me.
Guest:How dare I?
Guest:And not only did I feel there was a social injustice going on at the macro level.
Guest:But at the micro level, I was feeling rejected and unfairly berated for something I thought I was pointing out that was true.
Guest:But people were treating me like I was wasting their time discussing this thing.
Guest:And then on the plane the next day, a gentleman whose name I forget, who's always on Keith Olbermann.
Guest:Always on Keith Olbermann.
Guest:I cannot remember his name.
Guest:And I always liked him.
Guest:So it was particularly painful.
Guest:He's happened to be sitting next to me.
Guest:And he said, I saw your show last night.
Guest:And he goes, boy, I don't like your stuff.
Guest:So what he's saying is, I don't like you, because as you know, that's me on stage, you know what I mean?
Guest:So it's not a character, it's not a shtick.
Guest:So I'm sitting on the plane next to a guy who, I'm so sorry I can't remember his name, but he's always on over him, who I've always liked.
Guest:I don't know him, but I've always liked him.
Guest:Who basically sat down on that plane at 6.30 in the morning and said, the first thing he said, and wanted me to know, that's a whole other layer of why it's hurtful.
Guest:What he said was, I don't like you, by the way, he said, I don't like your stuff.
Guest:I unfortunately burst into tears.
Guest:It's terribly embarrassing.
Guest:This middle-aged lady burst into tears.
Guest:Now, to his credit, he felt awful.
Guest:Honestly felt horrible.
Guest:I don't think he realized the impact of what he said.
Marc:But isn't that interesting?
Marc:Because people don't make a connection between who you are publicly and realize that you are speaking your heart.
Marc:And they assume, especially if they're in the world of politics or show business, that you have this distance.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Or they just don't, you know, they are marginalizing me because they just see me as some idiot person in show business.
Marc:Not an idiot, but somebody who they don't agree with and somehow has a distance.
Guest:I think a lot of people think I'm kind of an idiot.
Guest:I think I've been so marginalized, so successfully marginalized.
Marc:By certain people because that's how they want people to see you.
Marc:But you're clearly not an idiot to anybody who listens to you.
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Guest:But be that as it may.
Marc:How the fuck can anyone call you an idiot?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I understand what you're saying.
Guest:I feel like that's how he was coming at me.
Guest:And so he felt comfortable.
Guest:Now, I don't believe he would have said that to Sam.
Guest:I just don't.
Marc:Or I don't believe he would have said that to... Well, if you say something like that to Sam, there's no telling when the conversation will end.
Guest:Well, I couldn't even speak.
Guest:And, you know, I didn't know I was going to cry.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I was already so hurt by the rejection of the show that I had before.
Guest:It was just icing on the cake.
Guest:It just had kept me awake.
Guest:I had not gone to sleep.
Guest:And so then I get on this plane at 6.
Marc:And how long were you on the plane after you cried?
Guest:With him from Aspen, Colorado to New York.
Marc:So how soon?
Guest:You cried early on?
Guest:I had to put my coat over my head and pretend I was sleeping.
Guest:And he must have known because it became... I mean, this day was crazy.
Guest:I mean, I have no explanation for why this happened.
Guest:This level of
Guest:emotional breakdown.
Guest:But it was that heaving thing, like under the code.
Guest:He knew.
Guest:He actually offered to drive me home from the airport.
Guest:He felt so awful.
Guest:And I even wanted to say to him, look, this isn't even you now.
Guest:I don't even know what's going on here.
Guest:I don't know what has been unleashed here.
Guest:This was not you.
Guest:I mean, you certainly hurt me.
Guest:But something else is going on here.
Guest:Those tears and that weird reaction lasted nigh on into the evening in New York.
Guest:My eyes were swollen shut the next day.
Guest:When my dogs died, the same thing.
Guest:I cried so much that my eyes swelled shut.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The same thing happened.
Guest:I'm not... Well, I think...
Marc:It's interesting with comedians and because of the, you know, the sort of the pulpit that you held before, you know, you were considered a pundit, which was a stand up stage is that, you know, really.
Marc:And you said it more or less here is that you want people to understand and appreciate what you're saying.
Marc:And everyone does.
Guest:I think everyone.
Guest:No, no, no.
Marc:But I'm just saying that that that's what happened is that even though you know that there is an amount of courage that is required to to talk about what you're talking about and that people aren't going to agree with you, the heart that you have, you know, believes that you're you are saying something from that heart and that that it is something you need to express.
Marc:And these are feelings that are important and information that is important.
Marc:But even though you know intellectually, which you lean on a lot, that they are going to be, people are going to fight you, you still want them to like you.
Guest:Yes, I do indeed.
Guest:I do indeed want to be well-liked.
Guest:There's no denying that.
Marc:And understood and reasoned and talked to like a person.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I would prefer to be well-liked.
Guest:Absolutely, 100%.
Guest:It hurts me terribly, even when people I don't like don't like me.
Guest:Although there are some people I don't like so much, I can let that go.
Guest:But this guy, who, in his defense, he offered to drive me home.
Guest:I mean, I think I really rocked his world, but he was not expecting anything.
Guest:this woman sitting next to him to cry for almost a four-hour plane ride or however long it was because he thinks it's what he said.
Guest:Or maybe, hopefully, he thought, oh, something terrible must have happened or whatever.
Guest:I was even thinking of telling him a story, a made-up story about what happened to cover the fact that I couldn't stop crying with a coat over my head.
Guest:My nose wouldn't stop running either.
Guest:It was just snot and tears and snot, and I was sweating like crazy under my coat because it was summer.
Guest:And it was a debacle eight ways to Sunday.
Guest:My glasses were disgusting with like mucus and I could barely see through my glasses.
Marc:And what did you eventually decide it might have been?
Guest:I have never figured it out besides maybe collective having been battered about this teabag thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Having the hate mail start up again like it was during the Bush era.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because it had stopped for a while.
Guest:And that was such a painful time.
Guest:The death threats and all that stuff during that whole mishigas and the death threats that came in Air America.
Guest:And it was such a relief when it had ebbed.
Guest:And then it started starting up again.
Guest:And then I had lost that job.
Guest:And...
Guest:It made me feel helpless.
Guest:It made me feel scared.
Guest:Because who knows what really can come from this?
Guest:You know, somebody's going to get harmed, right?
Guest:You know, it isn't beyond the pale.
Marc:Well, they obviously harmed your career to some degree.
Guest:Oh, to some degree.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But okay, so after all that is said and done.
Guest:I mean, physical harm, too.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Do you have any regrets?
Guest:regret no no uh that i did that that i worked at america well no just i mean do you have any regrets about how your actions uh have have affected your your career in life oh i regret that it negatively impacted my career for sure but do i regret having done what i did no would i do it again yes it is worth it uh it's much it's much better to live uh you know in your truth and
Guest:than worry about a stupid job on TV where you're going to probably wind up arguing with the writers anyway about what you can say.
Guest:But having said that, I do miss the opportunities I used to have in show business.
Guest:I miss it a lot.
Guest:I mean, granted, my career was ebbing anyway.
Guest:It's not like people were knocking down my door, you know, in the early aughts, but I definitely was a person who was in the mix, if you will.
Guest:And then that...
Guest:That really came to a grinding halt.
Guest:But what has hurt me more about that is people I consider friends who stopped feeling comfortable hiring me or working with me.
Guest:That hurt way more than just network or studio people.
Guest:I don't know them.
Guest:But when people you know in your peer group stop working,
Guest:including you in their comedies or their films or their shows, that's like getting punched in the face.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like that to me, and also I don't get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like why?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also, you know, it's difficult to recover from it.
Guest:I may never recover from it.
Guest:I mean, thank God I have a job now, but I may never get back in the mix, so to speak, of a person who works all the time and doesn't have to audition and this, that, and the other is just, you know, the call just comes in and they're like, here, do this part.
Guest:That doesn't happen anymore and may never, ever happen again.
Guest:And I have to accept that.
Guest:It hurts me terribly, but I have to accept it.
Guest:And...
Guest:You know, that's just the way it is.
Guest:So I regret that that happened, but I don't regret what we did.
Guest:And some of the most important things in my life is what you, me, and Sam Cedar did and the people I met.
Guest:And, you know, I can say I met Howard Zinn.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's Noam Chomsky.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:These are among others, but this is an amazing thing to be able to say in your life that I... I interviewed Studs Terkel.
Guest:And yet that something like that.
Guest:How many people can say something like that?
Guest:And I'm sure that people wouldn't care.
Guest:But it does mean something.
Marc:It does.
Marc:And and and and it certainly means that, you know, you have personal priorities that transcend transcend a lot of bullshit.
Guest:Having said that, I would be thrilled to work more.
Guest:But they shouldn't have been mutually exclusive.
Guest:That's what the bigger issue is.
Guest:Why was it mutually exclusive?
Guest:It wasn't for Viggo Mortensen.
Guest:It wasn't for Alec Baldwin.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:That's a whole other issue of a double standard.
Marc:Now let's talk about the show you're doing now is a crime show.
Guest:Yes, I am.
Guest:I am.
Guest:Are you an investigator?
Guest:I'm an FBI profiler.
Guest:It's a spinoff of Criminal Minds that is not on the air yet.
Guest:But it's starring Forrest Whitaker.
Guest:And actually, I do love working there.
Guest:Those fights about writing notwithstanding, it's a pleasure to work there.
Guest:And that's not me blowing smoke, because as you know, I have no benefit in pretending something.
Guest:It really is a fun job, and I like everyone very much.
Guest:But there are days where the writing is not where it should be.
Guest:And on those days, I get very...
Guest:Because what could be more important?
Guest:I mean, if it's not on the, you know.
Guest:It's coming out of your mouth.
Guest:But not just that.
Guest:It's not just for what I say.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I go to the mat for my cast members, too.
Guest:It's not, you know, it isn't just about, hey, my character isn't, you know.
Guest:It's the whole show that I'm taking into account.
Marc:And did this happen on that play you did as well?
Marc:Oh, the play.
Guest:Yeah, I did a play.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:But I didn't take the fight there because that was, I was there.
Guest:I did a play in New York where the writing was quite weak.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:I was only doing it for a couple months.
Guest:And so, yes, inside it pained me to say that, but that's that.
Guest:And also there was not going to be any change for the play.
Guest:That play was written in stone.
Guest:This is not.
Guest:And this is a collaboration between the cast and the writers.
Guest:It's just that the other cast members don't quite get so motivated as do I. Being happy to work is enough for them.
Guest:Oh, no, not just that.
Guest:It's just that they, for whatever reason, because different personalities, this is not a criticism.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But for whatever reason, it doesn't sometimes, even though I know it bothers them, it doesn't move them to going into the writer's room as it does me.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:They're okay.
Guest:They'll say it.
Guest:It's stuff like that.
Marc:What's the name of the DVD?
Guest:Oh, the comedy DVD.
Guest:Why would anybody be interested in this?
Guest:I did a comedy DVD entitled If You Will.
Guest:And I know it's at Amoeba Records.
Guest:Image is the comedy.
Guest:It's from the epic special that I did.
Guest:Did that air?
Guest:It already aired.
Guest:And Sam Seder directed some of the extras on the DVD.
Guest:It's from a show we did in Seattle at the Moore Theater.
Guest:And Sam Seder and Paul Gilmartin also are in it.
Guest:And it's a comedy special.
Marc:You can get it in Amazon.
Marc:You can get it at... Download it on iTunes.
Marc:iTunes.
Marc:And that was what you were putting together when we did those dates.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So that must be funny.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I haven't seen it, but I didn't do... I had to tell the people producing it I was going to do the set that I was showing them when you and I were working together.
Marc:I remember that, yeah.
Guest:And I actually opened with some material I've never said before ever or had said out loud.
Marc:Yeah, that's good.
Guest:Because that just was a goal I had.
Marc:Yeah, I do.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:Well, it's just I just felt like that's.
Marc:And what happened?
Marc:Were there repercussions?
Guest:No, no, not at all.
Guest:They didn't.
Guest:You know, and if there were, they didn't say anything to me because it worked out OK.
Guest:But they were really adamant that I tell them verbatim what I was going to say.
Guest:So after a while, I was tired of fighting with them.
Guest:So I pretended, yes, this is what I'm going to say.
Guest:which is not really what happened.
Guest:Some of it was, but some of it wasn't.
Marc:There was no blowback.
Guest:There was no blowback because the audience was fantastic, so it worked out.
Marc:Thank God that they weren't involved in the decision-making process because now they couldn't say anything because it went well.
Guest:It went well, yeah.
Guest:And I actually was supposed to have watched it for editing purposes and then wanted to vomit when I saw myself and heard my voice.
Guest:So I did not... And then Sam told me that actually some of the stuff, the extra stuff, was not contextually well integrated.
Guest:But we did some stuff with his daughter and we pretended Mila was my daughter and...
Guest:When we were doing it, it seemed funny.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I haven't seen it because I cannot look at myself.
Guest:And Paul Gilmartin was very funny.
Guest:And like I said, the audience was great.
Guest:The theater was fantastic.
Guest:And hopefully it's good.
Guest:Thank you for giving me a format to mention it.
Marc:If you will, Janine Garofalo is available.
Marc:She's now shooting this exciting crime drama.
Guest:Yes, starring Forrest Whitaker, who is a... He's very good.
Marc:Yeah, and she's well, and she's funny, and she's... Oh, thank you.
Marc:Her heart's in the right place.
Marc:Thanks for talking to me.
Guest:Thank you very much for having me, Mark, because WTF is like the biggest forum...
Guest:i've ever had it's no like for anyone listening you should know that when you do stand up with mark maron now every seat in the house is sold out because of your audience of wtf you don't have to do any advertising you don't have to do any morning drive shows oh that's sweet it's like i hope you're right it is i know i'm right because i've seen the evidence when you and i have done shows we don't have to do anything anymore because you will sell out the room i
Marc:Oh, God, I hope that happens.
Guest:And UCB would have been sold out except for that clerical error on Sunday night.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:Well, we'll talk about it off the air.
Marc:Thanks for being here.
Guest:Thank you for having me.
Marc:That was the lovely Janine Garofalo being the lovely Janine Garofalo.
Marc:And as promised, I will now do something that I don't ordinarily do.
Marc:But this is Mike DiStefano.
Marc:Some of you might know him from Last Comic Standing.
Marc:He's an interesting character.
Marc:And we had him on one of the live shows at Comics.
Marc:And that show really is unairable in its entirety.
Marc:But Mike kicked ass.
Marc:It was an awkward show.
Marc:Things went wrong.
Marc:It happens.
Marc:We will be sharing some of the other segments from that show.
Marc:in an upcoming episode of the Lost WTF stuff, which will be around New Year's.
Marc:But we want to introduce you to Mike DiStefano because he just kicked ass that night.
Marc:And then on this Thursday, we're going to be doing a full hour with Mike.
Marc:And he's had a very hard, interesting, and somewhat dark life.
Marc:But I wanted you to get to know him a little bit first.
Marc:So here, enjoy Mike DiStefano live what the fuck at Comics in New York.
Marc:My next performer, I'm so thrilled that he found success and he was on last Comic Standing.
Marc:He's doing very well.
Marc:He's been out a long time and I love him.
Marc:Please welcome Mike D to the stage.
Guest:Now, now the drug stories can begin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What are you fairies talking about out here?
Guest:Stop doing coke.
Guest:What's the coke?
Guest:When I was 12, I did coke.
Guest:Did what?
Guest:I was a heroin addict.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Where's the applause for heroin?
Marc:What kind of crowd are you?
Marc:I thought we were New York.
Guest:I think this is interesting.
Guest:I smoked crack cocaine, heroin.
Guest:Actually, I got cleaned the first time BC, I call it.
Guest:1887 BC.
Guest:That was before crack.
Guest:And when crack came out, I didn't know what it was.
Guest:Fuck it, the paranoia of it.
Guest:I was in Florida.
Guest:I think I walked there one night.
Guest:And I was in an apartment.
Guest:I swear to God.
Guest:I was in West Palm Beach.
Guest:Across the water is Palm Beach and Donald Trump's estate is there.
Guest:I was smoking crack in the apartment and I knew after like a month of this shit, the paranoia, I realized I'm on land.
Guest:That's
Guest:the problem is that I need to get out.
Guest:There's too many ways they can fucking come get me.
Guest:I'm a fucking $3 a day crackhead and I'm thinking that they got helicopters coming to get me.
Guest:I'm so fucking important that they're sending not just the FBI, the whole fucking army's coming.
Guest:So I walked out across the bay.
Guest:You can literally walk up to your with the crack and I'm in circles so they can't, I can see anyone coming to get me.
Guest:And when I looked down, I saw these fucking fish.
Guest:They looked like they were agent fish.
Guest:Federal agent fish with fucking sunglasses.
Guest:And that, you know... That was it?
Guest:No, I kept getting hyped for years after that.
Guest:That was, uh...
Marc:Oh, God, I fucking love drug stories.
Marc:You know why?
Marc:Because, and I think I've said this before, I don't respect anybody that didn't have the courage to lose complete control of their life for a few years.
Marc:That takes balls.
Marc:It takes stupidity, balls, compulsion, but man, when you come out of it, if, you got some good stories.
Marc:Yeah, and I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, that is.
Marc:But, okay, we can talk about other things and then get back to this.
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:Now, when I first met you, it was actually in Boca Raton, Florida, at that horrendous club that Al Martin books.
Marc:What was it called?
Marc:Bocanuts or something?
Guest:Bocanuts or something, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it was this weird, dark, brown, fucked up place.
Marc:It was like...
Marc:It was like, remember it was like almost a beige interior.
Marc:And for some reason I pictured that the lighting was actually yellow.
Marc:Everything kind of looked like pee.
Marc:And it was just fucking weird.
Marc:There are some rooms that are cursed where you walk in and you're like, the funny has just been sucked out of me through my ass.
Guest:It seemed like that.
Guest:It was an awful place.
Marc:And you were all sweaty and fucking weird.
Guest:I was new at comedy.
Guest:I was intimidated to be working with you.
Guest:And honestly, I was.
Guest:I was like scared to death inside.
Guest:But I'm, you know.
Guest:I was taught as a kid, if you're afraid of something, hit it with a fucking baseball bat until it stops.
Guest:So I didn't want to do that to you because I liked you.
Marc:I guess I appreciate that, Mike.
Guest:Yeah, I was intimidated by Mark, so I killed him.
Marc:Would have changed my act.
Marc:I would have been that guy with that hook.
Guest:I was just starting, and I was just getting around to it, yeah.
Guest:Well, I'm glad you didn't beat me up with a bat.
Guest:No, no, it's just a figurative.
Guest:No, it's true.
Guest:I'm just saying.
Guest:I keep apologizing for my thoughts, but I really, I can't help it.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:You think things and then you don't really do them?
Guest:No, I hate saying violent shit because I mean it in a way, but I'm not towards you.
Guest:It's fucked up.
Marc:Because that was what I was going to get to, is that my sense to you was not that, see, now you've evolved into sort of this hardened, you know, brash, sort of Italian scary guy.
Marc:But I think in there is a very sweet guy, right?
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That got it all wrong?
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I'm not, I don't, I'm not really like this, everyone.
Guest:This is not, this is not how I really am.
Guest:I'm gentle.
Guest:I grew up fucked up.
Guest:I got a fucked up.
Guest:I was, let me, all right.
Guest:You want to hear the story?
Marc:I think I was waiting for that.
Marc:All right.
Guest:I'm with, when I was like 14, I'm with, like I was taught good shit, but in a fucked,
Guest:My brother and my uncle and a friend of my uncle's, I don't remember his name, Danny Rappo, I think was the name.
Guest:They were beating this guy, and they got out of the car, and I'm in the back seat, and they beat this guy fucking senseless.
Guest:I don't know if the guy lived or what the fuck, but they beat him.
Guest:Then they get in the car, my brother's in the front, he wraps up a McDonald's wrapper, throws it out the window, and my uncle smacks him and says, what are we, animals?
LAUGHTER
Guest:There's a bit of moral ambiguity in your upbringing.
Marc:That's a great story.
Marc:Do you know why they beat the guy or no?
Guest:It doesn't matter why they beat him.
Guest:There was never a reason for it.
Guest:There was never a need to explain it.
Guest:Violence solved everything.
Guest:I grew up with that, but again, I'm not that guy.
Guest:I'm really not.
Guest:I've had five fights in the last two years.
Guest:I don't know if that's a lot.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:I'm 43.
Guest:No, that's about the right amount.
Guest:I can tell you, but I've never started them.
Guest:The people came at me and attacked me.
Guest:For what?
Guest:For hitting them.
Guest:Because I hit them and then they came at me.
Guest:and attacked me.
Guest:Another true story, I swear, it's true.
Guest:It was at a club in New York called Ha Comedy Club.
Guest:And I come outside and my buddy, Jerry Roach, I don't know if you've ever seen him before.
Guest:He's a terrific guy.
Guest:He's a little Hispanic guy.
Guest:He was getting yelled at by these two guys who were screaming at him.
Guest:So I came out and I sat down and I'm watching them yell at him.
Guest:So finally I said, guys, can you tone it down a bit?
Guest:So they both turned to me and one of them came to my left and the other one came over here.
Guest:And I didn't get out of my chair.
Guest:And I was like, hey, I don't want no trouble from nobody.
Guest:And I really did it.
Guest:And this guy, I said five times, don't fuck with him.
Guest:And this guy moved his hand, I think, and I just hit him.
Guest:And he was unconscious standing up.
Guest:You ever see that?
Guest:He's fucking hysterical.
Guest:His eyes were like in the back of his head.
Guest:And I literally.
Marc:Sounds hysterical.
Guest:I put him in my chair and I went inside and got a bag of ice and brought it out and put it on his head and said, I told you not to do that.
Guest:Now, that is a God's honest truth story.
Guest:I don't know if I'm trying to show how tough I am or how tender I really am.
Guest:Because I will fucking beat you all the way to the hospital and I will drop you off and check you in if I have to.
Because I am a good person.
Marc:I think the high point of that story for me was that you said, you ever seen someone unconscious standing up as if, you know, we all should have.
Marc:But there was a moment, you ever seen that?
Marc:It's fucking great.
Marc:Like it happened many times.
Marc:Hey, I don't know where people are from.
Marc:I'm thinking most of them not from where you're from.
Marc:But that's a good story.
Marc:So only four fights in the last few years.
Guest:Self-defense, always.
Guest:I never raise my hands to fight anybody.
Guest:I don't like that.
Guest:I'm not a bully.
Guest:I'm not a fucking... I don't pick on... Oh, man.
Guest:It comes at me, you know?
Marc:Have you ever gotten to a fight with another comic?
Marc:A fist fight?
Guest:Uh...
Guest:No.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:No.
Marc:I had to think about it.
Guest:No.
Guest:It was one guy who stole one of my jokes and I just said to him, I don't care if you do my material as long as it's in clubs.
Guest:If you do it on television, you're not going to enjoy the success that you get from it because you're going to be in a wheelchair.
Guest:You have a fucking colostomy bag and that's going to suck.
Guest:You added the colostomy.
Guest:It's good that you put your... Yeah, shit.
Guest:You got to be... My grandmother used to say, I'll stick your hand in a cheese grater.
Guest:She never did it.
Guest:Just thinking about that, it was scary.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wheelchair wasn't enough.
Marc:Colostomy bag, that sealed it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think people are enjoying this anymore.
Marc:All right, let's talk about Glass Comic Standing.
Marc:All right.
Marc:How was that experience?
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:I couldn't believe I made it on the show.
Guest:I fucking couldn't believe it.
Guest:I did it at the very last second.
Guest:I went in.
Guest:I was asked to come in to audition.
Guest:I had the opportunity not to have to wait in line and all that.
Guest:So I went...
Guest:And the first joke that I told was a story about in the morning I went in in front of the judges and I said, hey, and Greg Giraldo was there.
Guest:God bless him.
Marc:The rest is so weird.
Guest:And just him and Andy Kindler, who I didn't know.
Guest:Natasha, I didn't know either.
Guest:She was sexy and hot and whatever.
Guest:But these two comics, I really respected.
Guest:And if you were sitting there, I would have felt the same way.
Guest:getting your approval for my joke.
Guest:And it blew me away.
Guest:I was like, I'm going to try this.
Guest:And then I made it as far as I did.
Guest:I could not fucking believe that every week I was like, I can stay?
Guest:Like, every week.
Guest:I'm like, really?
Guest:You're not kidding.
Guest:And sure enough, I made it through.
Marc:What did you end up with?
Guest:I was in the top five.
Guest:I was number four.
Guest:I was number four.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Now, how is somebody like you handling the success of it?
Marc:Because now you're touring with who?
Guest:I'm touring with the top five of us.
Marc:See, that would drive me fucking crazy.
Guest:It's not easy, you know, it's easy.
Guest:Because there's no censor, no guy pushing a button, so I'm doing really well in the live show.
Guest:And the other guy, the guy who won, I think he's going to offer me a settlement to tone it down a bit.
Guest:Um...
Guest:Because he's really having a hard time.
Guest:And that's not, I'm not being a dick.
Guest:It's just that live comedy is a whole new ballgame.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Live comedy and television comedy are two different things.
Guest:Television will rip the fucking soul out of what you're trying to say.
Guest:It will.
Guest:And fuck television.
Guest:And whoever's listening to this, if you own a TV station, I'm not talking about your particular station.
Guest:But, I mean, listen, I'm no hicks, and I don't even, half the shit I say is just fucking retarded stuff.
Guest:I mean, I don't know if I have a point to anything, but I did get some of my voice out on national television, you know?
Guest:I did a couple of my gay jokes that I wanted to do.
Guest:And when I say gay jokes, that's it.
Guest:People would,
Guest:I was in L.A.
Guest:walking and they're getting paid.
Guest:You want to sign this?
Guest:And they're stopping all these guys.
Guest:And then I came and they didn't fucking, they put their pads down.
Guest:So I went over.
Guest:I got tattoos all over.
Guest:You can't see them.
Guest:So I walk over.
Guest:I said, what are you doing?
Guest:Well, it's Proposition 8.
Guest:We're protesting.
Guest:And I go, is that the thing where gay people are allowed to get married?
Guest:I go, why don't you fucking ask me if I want to do it?
Guest:Yeah, you're profiling me.
Guest:Yeah, I hate gay people, you're right.
Guest:But how the fuck did you know by looking at me?
Guest:You couldn't tell that I fucking hate gay, hate gay, I love gay people.
Guest:And I just, I was like so, I didn't sign it because fuck you now, that's not the point.
Guest:You don't know what's inside of me.
Guest:So my gay material is pro, not pro gay, like, hey, suck a cock.
Guest:It's supportive of people.
Guest:I just have a lot of things that are still inside of me.
Guest:Know that I'm not getting out because of the way I look.
Guest:I feel like I'm a gay Asian boy inside.
Guest:That's how I feel.
Guest:Because I want to add softness in me and tenderness that it's hard to express because of the way you look.
Marc:I think you're doing it beautifully.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, thanks, yeah.
Marc:Now, where are you going next?
Guest:You going to... I'm still on the tour.
Guest:I'm on the tour for like three more months.
Marc:Oh my God, you sound miserable.
Guest:Well, because I'm getting up in front of people, like whoever came here tonight,
Guest:You know Mark Maron, hopefully.
Guest:You know some of the names out here.
Guest:And so I know, all right, these people I can do my thing with.
Guest:And if you get offended by something, I'll be like, you came to see Mark Maron suck my dick.
Guest:Don't you think you were going to fucking get puppets and shit?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But when they come out to the last Comic Standing tour, it's like families and they're waiting for like the cute shit.
Guest:And I'm like, I open with a cunt joke.
Guest:Like literally.
Marc:Good choice.
Marc:Good choice.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:Well, it's not a cunt joke, right?
Guest:I say cunt a hundred times.
Guest:I say the C word.
Guest:I said the C word.
Guest:Oh, now you're gonna say the C word?
Guest:That's good for you to catch yourself.
Guest:No, here's how it goes.
Guest:I said the C word in a show and these five cunts came up to me in a line and like the head cunt was up front and she said, we hate that word.
Guest:I said, well, you probably hear it an awful lot.
Guest:And then one of them said, well, would you call a black person the N-word?
Guest:And I said, if I bet a lot of money on the game that day and they were losing.
Guest:And then I said, well, I wouldn't call a black person the N-word, but that's not because I'm afraid of black people.
Guest:I respect, I will kill a black person.
Guest:I'm going to stop me using racial slurs because I was raised properly.
Guest:How?
Guest:That's the bit.
Guest:And they fucking write letters.
Guest:They wrote letters?
Guest:Yeah, every night.
Guest:The tour manager's mic five.
Guest:It's a number now.
Guest:How many fucking letters the theater got.
Guest:But it's okay because I'm not representing NBC.
Guest:The last thing I said on the show was, whoever didn't vote for me, fuck you.
Guest:And I said that right into the cameras and to American society.
Thank you.
Marc:Mike DiStefano, ladies and gentlemen.
Marc:Okay, that's our show.
Marc:That's our interesting show.
Marc:A little live WTF, a little Janine Garofalo, a little listener email with some career advice not to have a career.
Marc:But I understand, as I've said before, it's easy to maintain your integrity when no one's offering to buy it out.
Marc:Please go to WTFPod.com and get some JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:Kick in a little bit if you want.
Marc:If you do the $10 a month subscription thing, you'll get a t-shirt and a postcard, some stickers.
Marc:If you do the $250 one-time premium donation, two t-shirts, a cat t-shirt, WTF t-shirt, three of my CDs, and the special only available to premium.com.
Marc:uh, donors, best of WTF volume one, some stickers, my love and affection, uh, access to the premium live episodes.
Marc:And as I said, the last episode, uh, the first 50 WTS will be available on iTunes shortly.
Marc:I will keep you in the loop on that.
Marc:You can also get on the mailing list at WTF pod.com, which I am sending out every week with pictures and things that you don't know, because I don't talk about here.
Marc:I'm going to put them in the little emails.
Marc:As always, go to punchwinemagazine.com for all your up-to-date comedy needs.
Marc:And we're out.