Episode 1288 - Cat Power
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:WTF, how are you?
Marc:No, seriously, how are you?
Marc:Look at me.
Marc:Look at me.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:No, no, that's not the answer.
Marc:Look at me.
Marc:Check in.
Marc:Check in.
Marc:Hey, it's just Christmas.
Marc:It's just the holiday season.
Marc:It's okay to put on a few.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:I mean, you just take it off in the new year or you won't.
Marc:Or this might be the edge.
Marc:This might be the tipping point.
Marc:Yeah, I put on 10 pounds in like 2021 and now it's 2040 and my hazmat suit's a little tight.
Marc:But, you know, it's okay.
Marc:It's got a little give on it.
Marc:It's got the elastic on it.
Marc:These new ones are much better than the last ones.
Marc:Man, I could barely fucking, you know, I couldn't get any like air and the sweat was ridiculous in the last one.
Marc:These are okay.
Marc:But yeah, I put on a little weight back in 2021.
Marc:That was about 15, 20 years ago already.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But I'm glad these hazmat suits have elastic on them because, you know, we got to wear them pretty much all the time now.
Marc:Hey, look, just take it easy, all right?
Marc:Don't freak out.
Marc:It's the holidays.
Marc:There's a lot of bad shit going on, but let's relax.
Marc:Let's try to relax.
Marc:I'm trying to relax.
Marc:I'm trying to fucking be grounded, whatever that means.
Marc:Listen, Cat Power is on the show today.
Marc:Her name, Shawn Marshall, that's her name.
Marc:Cat Power is her stage name.
Marc:I believe we talk about that.
Marc:She's been putting out solo records for almost three decades now, going back to her breakout album,
Marc:What would the community think?
Marc:Yeah, way back.
Marc:I think I picked up on her really.
Marc:I missed it.
Marc:I missed everything in New York.
Marc:I missed her.
Marc:I missed all of it.
Marc:But that first covers record, I loved.
Marc:And then I went back and picked up the rest.
Marc:Her album, she's got another covers album.
Marc:I think it's her third one.
Marc:The new one covers.
Marc:It comes out next month, I think.
Marc:And she'll be touring into the new year.
Marc:Also, listen to me.
Marc:I'm going to be at Largo on Tuesday, next Tuesday, December 21st, doing the music and the comedy.
Marc:And if you'd like to come, if you're in town, come.
Marc:I don't know who the comedians are.
Marc:I got to figure out who the hell's in town.
Marc:I asked little Esther last night.
Marc:She's not going to be around.
Marc:I got to reel in some comics to be on the show.
Marc:It's gonna be me and Ned on drums, Brandon on bass, Jimmy Vivino on the other guitar.
Marc:I've got a nice roster of songs selected.
Marc:I believe we're gonna be doing Drifting by the original Fleetwood Mac with Peter Green.
Marc:I believe I want to do Help You Dream by The Blasters, which is one of my favorite songs.
Marc:I generally just do songs that I like.
Marc:I think we're gonna do Long Black Veil, the band's version.
Marc:I think we're going to do Run Run Rudolph, Chuck Berry for the Christmas.
Marc:I believe I'm going to attempt to do Jealous Guy by John Lennon.
Marc:And I believe we're going to do some sort of stripped down version.
Marc:of tears of a clown by smoky robinson that is a pretty eclectic mix of three chord songs give or take a chord that's my wheelhouse baby let's not push it let's not complicate things let's just do three chords different tones different speeds different lyrics what else do you need
Marc:Huh?
Marc:You know, I've been watching some comics who were pitched to me.
Marc:I don't know everybody anymore.
Marc:These kids.
Marc:And then I started to think like, well, that reminds me of me a little bit, this stuff.
Marc:And it got me back into my old CDs, you know, like from I don't know when I did.
Marc:Tickets still available.
Marc:Tickets still available.
Marc:It's fucking great.
Marc:Look at me, I'm Ridley Scott.
Marc:My CD, Ticket Still Available, is fucking great.
Marc:That's a fucking great bunch of comedy there.
Marc:I was rapid-paced.
Marc:I believe I was still in Morning Radio Brain.
Marc:I guess it came out in 2006, so right.
Marc:So I would have recorded it...
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:When before the life got terrible, but I was still locked into that morning radio, like frenetic brain thing, the lucid kind of rage of it.
Marc:And I just listening to it, just poking around in my own shit.
Marc:But I was listening to the clarity of the thing, to the writing of the thing, to the pace of the thing, to all the stuff I was talking about.
Marc:A lot of politics in that one.
Marc:But but cutting, man, and some real like solid bits of satire and rage and funny.
Marc:And I just listened to it, and I'm like, holy shit, man.
Marc:I thought I was at the top of my game now, but I was at the top of my game then, and maybe I was.
Marc:But I got no way of assessing myself at that moment, 2006 or any time before that, or even yesterday, without thinking I didn't quite make the mark.
Marc:But my point being is that I miss a lot of me.
Marc:Once I'm through these things, I'm through them.
Marc:It's almost like my whole life is like an argument I'm having.
Marc:You know how when you have an argument and after the argument is over, you don't really remember the argument, especially if you were a dick?
Marc:Well, that's like most of my life is that I did all these things.
Marc:I engaged with these audiences.
Marc:I've had all these experiences, but it all seems so far away.
Marc:It all seems not...
Marc:Not unreal, but just sort of like, yeah, it's behind me.
Marc:But all this stuff is substantial work.
Marc:And I never really assessed it in the time other than I'm doing this or this is OK or like I could have done better.
Marc:So my experience with it at the time was probably adversarial with myself.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:I just didn't give myself enough credit.
Marc:I always assumed I just was I was underappreciated, which is true.
Marc:But I think some part of me thought that was because the work wasn't up to par.
Marc:But I listened to fucking like a lot of tickets still available yesterday.
Marc:My CD from 2006.
Marc:And it was fucking great.
Marc:Like I was impressed with my thinking.
Marc:And I don't give myself any credit and everything just gets by me because I'm in this frenetic presence and it's starting to fuck with me time wise.
Marc:But I got to check back in with myself a little bit so I can at least feel like I've done something as opposed to just eat through life like a fucking shark.
Marc:You know, just as soon as it gets behind me, it's behind me.
Marc:And then it like it fades so quickly into the rear view that I don't know if it was this morning or yesterday or a week ago.
Marc:I've got to start holding on to some of this stuff that I create in a way that I can appreciate it.
Marc:I just feel like I'm going to approach it differently.
Marc:I've been approaching things differently.
Marc:Like Thanksgiving dinner.
Marc:I did it differently and it was good.
Marc:I enjoyed it more.
Marc:That's all I'm doing.
Marc:I think that's what, maybe that's a general life note.
Marc:Approach it differently.
Marc:Appreciate what you're doing.
Marc:Appreciate once you've done it.
Marc:Remember it.
Marc:for something you appreciated and then you know enjoy that for a second and then move on as opposed to like let's just do this let's just do it i just want to get through it let's just do it let's do it okay that's that it's done that was pretty good what are we doing now let's try to fucking savor something dude we're in the second half here maybe even the fourth quarter
Marc:So Sean Marshall, Cat Power, AKA Cat Power, and I became odd friends.
Marc:We started DMing in the midst of the early phase of my horrendous grief.
Marc:She just reached out to me and kind of talked to me through some stuff and mostly texting.
Marc:And I don't know, it took a long time for us to meet, but that was a couple of years ago, I guess, or a year and a half ago.
Marc:And yeah.
Marc:I've always liked her music and her singing and stuff.
Marc:I didn't know a lot about her, but we became kind of friends.
Marc:She came to the show.
Marc:I saw her in Florida.
Marc:I went to visit my mother, and that was the first time I met her.
Marc:She was living down there, and I went and had dinner with her, and I met her kid and hung out a bit, chatted it up.
Marc:Then she came to a show when she was touring this last go-round opening for Alanis and Garbage or whatever that tour was, and she came to see me and Dean up in Portland with Malcolmus.
Marc:But I didn't know the whole story.
Marc:You know, she's an interesting person, gone through a lot of shit.
Marc:And this sort of it kind of took me back, you know, to that that time in New York where you're you're coming up in New York or you're trying to come up in New York and you want to be part of the bigger thing or or you just don't know where to how to get in or how it works or who's doing what.
Marc:And, you know, just that feeling of being in that city, you know, back in the late 80s and 90s.
Marc:and trying to make a go of it and how fucking exciting that was.
Marc:But see, that's another thing.
Marc:When I was in it, I was like, come on, come on.
Marc:When is it gonna happen?
Marc:What's gonna happen?
Marc:I don't think I appreciated fucking hardly anything in a way that wasn't other than just trying to get out of myself.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:I'm drifting back.
Marc:So anyway, when we finally got the opportunity, we tried to make this happen for a while to talk.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:It's almost like we're just continuing to get to know each other.
Marc:So this is me talking to Sean Marshall.
Marc:Her new album covers will be out January 14th, and she's already announced North American tour dates for next year, starting January 16th.
Marc:Go check out catpowermusic.com for dates and details.
Marc:And this is me and Sean talking.
Marc:The last time I saw you was the only time I saw you.
Guest:That's not true.
Guest:I saw you in Portland, too.
Marc:No, but, oh, that's right.
Marc:That's the last time.
Marc:At the time before, that was in Florida.
Marc:We didn't really know each other, but we've been texting a long time.
Marc:And we talked on the phone.
Marc:Yeah, we talked a bit.
Marc:Yeah, because we were sort of bonded in grief.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Because we had lost people, and you reached out, and then we were deep in the loss hole, sending emojis, trying to make each other feel better.
Marc:And then I finally met you in Miami, and that was crazy times for you.
Marc:We had steak, but you're all panicked.
Marc:Was I?
Marc:Yes, because you're real dad.
Guest:Was coming oh yes, that's correct right and it is the first time you'd seen him forever Yeah, I mean I'd seen him at like I saw him a few years I saw him in a hotel room for about 10 minutes yeah, and then I saw him like a few years earlier at a concert backstage yeah But uh like spending actual time together had been like 30 years 30 years yeah, and it went okay, right?
Guest:Yeah, it was intense.
Guest:As soon as my little boy out of the car to go find him, because I had to valet the car, and so he knew where he was going, my little boy, and then I was like all flipping out, like, you know, flipping out, like emotional, and then I hear tap, tap, tap on the window, and I thought it was the valet, and it was my dad, and then every ounce of fear or panic, just like, I felt like I was like four.
Yeah.
Guest:Like a goo-goo baby, just smiling like ga-ga-ga-ga, da-da.
Guest:And the trip was great.
Guest:We fed the fish and talked and went to dinner, went to lunch, hung out more, went to dinner, went to breakfast.
Guest:It was really super, super, super important to do and for him to hang out with my son.
Marc:Were you carrying a lot of resentment?
Marc:At that time?
Guest:No, not resentment.
Guest:Just like, you know, I'd send a picture of me and my little sister and he, you know, just said like, who's that?
Guest:But he's a sweet guy, you know.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:What was the last time?
Marc:When did he go away?
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:Well, I didn't meet him or my mom until I was like four and a half.
Marc:Either of them?
Guest:Yeah, because I guess my grandmother told me that they had found her name on the birth certificate, so they went on the thing where the phone book, and they called her, so she went to pick me up.
Marc:Where would you just left somewhere?
Marc:uh just from the uterus that was it and then what you just they left you in the hospital or on a doorstep or yeah in the hospital yeah and i don't know where you know where they were but when i met them you know i it's like meeting god or something like or meeting the unicorn so your grandmother stepped in yeah and took you whose mom your mom's mom yes uh-huh now what about your mom where's she at
Guest:She's in North Carolina.
Guest:I think she's doing well.
Marc:So where did you start your consciousness?
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Guest:Probably...
Guest:Around probably when my little brother Lenny was born, he has cerebral palsy.
Guest:And when I went to the hospital, I was six, and my stepfather and mother's son, and I saw, you know, he had just had open heart surgery.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So he was a newborn, and he had like, you know, the tubes and the, you know, he was in a controlled incubation compartment, whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:A tank, a little bubble.
Guest:Yeah, and all the different things.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Chords and stuff.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:And my stepdad had the, you know, no one can touch him, so they have to put the gloves.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I, you know, realized that there could be, you know, and he was crying.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and I realized then that I didn't really understand.
Guest:I saw, I realized that there was real, real, real pain on earth.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:At six, you saw that.
Marc:So it wasn't just sort of like the nature of absence.
Marc:Now it was real pain that you saw that.
Marc:Just witnessing that.
Marc:Fragile being completely vulnerable and hooked up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that kind of opened you up to that?
Guest:Yeah, because I mean, that kind of like, you know, it's like all the things that like adults try to hide from their kids, you know, getting exposed to lots of stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then that seemed fun, you know, like the bars and the shows and the, you know, all that stuff.
Marc:You went to shows?
Yeah.
Guest:Lots of different shows, lots of different... What, because your folks were... Yeah, in bands.
Marc:They were both in bands.
Marc:Musicians.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Guest:My stepdad and my father, yeah.
Marc:What kind of music was the original father?
Guest:The original father is still a solo musician in Atlanta, and he...
Guest:Guitar player?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, he can.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he's more of like a piano lounge.
Guest:He'll do covers.
Guest:He's been doing that since I've known him.
Marc:So he's still a working lounge act?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, he was in a band in the 80s.
Guest:He was in a band in the Moby Grape, I guess.
Guest:Right then, he was in this band called Brick Wall.
Guest:But I guess Moby Grape, they came out with five singles at once.
Guest:And my dad's band, Brick Wall, had a single come out.
Guest:But Moby Grape's singles, no one gave it.
Guest:They were just focusing on collecting these singles.
Marc:They got buried by Moby Grape, is what you're saying?
Marc:And then what kind of musicians are your stepdad?
Guest:He played music with Dwayne Allman.
Guest:They were really close.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They lived in Jamaica together briefly.
Marc:Him and Dwayne?
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:These guys like Dwayne Allman.
Marc:He was dead at 27 or so.
Marc:I'm just assuming that's the age that they all died at.
Marc:Maybe he was even younger.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I think he was younger.
Marc:Where did they get time to live in fucking Jamaica?
Marc:I mean, what was I doing in my mid-20s?
Marc:But you seem to have gotten around, but I wasn't moving to Jamaica in my 20s.
Marc:It just seems that those people at that time period lived these amazingly adventurous and rich, complicated lives before they were even 30.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So he played with Dwayne.
Guest:I mean, he was his buddy, and that is so...
Guest:You know, Georgia's a real small town, you know, so like, you know what I mean?
Guest:Which part of Georgia?
Guest:Well, just Atlanta.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So they were around?
Guest:Well, if you didn't go to like, you know, New York or the hate, you were kind of like in Atlanta.
Guest:You'd take the train or the bus.
Marc:Or Nashville.
Marc:Or Nashville wasn't cool yet, right?
Marc:Not really.
Guest:Not Atlanta.
Guest:I mean, not Nashville.
Guest:It was Hotlanta, you know, because it was just happening.
Marc:Oh, was it?
Marc:In the 70s, yeah.
Marc:And that's where you did most of your growing up?
Guest:Well, yeah, I guess.
Guest:Yeah, moved.
Guest:We kept moving around.
Marc:Because of the musician thing?
Guest:Because of my stepdad's job.
Guest:He worked for American Racing, which is like a mag wheel company.
Guest:And then he started working for Progressive Wheels, so he'd go to set up warehouses along the East Coast.
Marc:See, you were part of car culture as well?
Guest:No, nah.
Marc:No?
Marc:He just sold wheels?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Offloading.
Marc:For race cars?
Guest:Whatever.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Whoever.
Marc:Wheels.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:But he also played what?
Marc:He played guitar.
Guest:Guitar, yeah, Les Paul, I think 1960.
Marc:Is that where you learned guitar?
Guest:No, but I used to, you know...
Guest:I don't know what, you know, just make noise.
Guest:Feedback on the Marshall.
Guest:It was in a closet.
Marc:The Marshall?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You had, what, a half stack or a whole stack?
Guest:It wasn't a stack.
Marc:It was- Oh, self-contained?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Solid state Marshall?
Guest:Well, no, because it had- Had the tubes?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was all ratted and silver and it was so fucking loud.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They are loud.
Yeah.
Guest:They're so loud.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I can't take it.
Marc:My ears got fucked up.
Marc:I've blown out my ears a couple of times.
Guest:Yeah, in this room.
Marc:Yeah, with that stupid amp.
Guest:That's an amazing amp.
Marc:It is.
Marc:It's an old Fender, but to get the sound that makes it great, you've got to crank it.
Guest:And you have to go through like 100 of them to find the one.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Keith's got like 500,000 of them.
Marc:I don't.
Marc:I didn't go.
Marc:I'm not a pro.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That one and that Fender Champ by the door.
Marc:Yeah, I do love the Champ.
Marc:Which fried.
Marc:A guy's got to fix it.
Marc:I got this guy.
Marc:He fixes them.
Marc:And he fucking tweaked that thing.
Marc:And it just melted.
Marc:All of a sudden, I smelled something burning.
Marc:And it went away.
Marc:It stopped.
Marc:It stopped working.
It stopped.
Marc:So, all right, so this is a complicated upbringing you have.
Marc:So your mom, but at least you had a relationship with your mom, which you kind of, all right.
Marc:So wherever you're at, you were set to wander, hence the title of your last record.
Marc:At what age were you just sort of like, all right, I got to figure this shit out?
Marc:When did you start playing?
Guest:I was in high school and I went to the Cramps and I went to go see the Cramps at the Roxy in Atlanta and I saw this guy.
Guest:singing and playing and spitting and snarling and wow, you know, just, you know, his guitar was so cool.
Guest:And I never seen a guitar like that.
Guest:And, and, uh, they blew my mind.
Guest:And the band was called flat duo jets.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I never, you know, whatever.
Guest:And, uh,
Guest:You know, I didn't care.
Guest:I mean, of course, the cramps were great, you know, but like, I just went, you know, I went into a different, you know, so.
Marc:That guy, and you became friends with that guy?
Guest:Later, yeah, my roommate, he introduced me to him at a show in Athens, because he was in this band, my best friend, my roommate.
Guest:Robert Hayes he was in this band called the Jody Grind in Atlanta and the guitar player from that band Bill Taft is in a band now for a minute called Waiting for UFOs and Bill was in this other band called Smoke so Robert introduced me to Dex and then so Dex started calling the house and he'd like call and be playing the piano beautiful classical trained you know um
Marc:And you're in high school?
Guest:No, this is after.
Guest:This is, you know, my dad, I had to not live with my dad anymore, so luckily I already knew.
Marc:The real dad or the second dad?
Marc:The real dad.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:So I was 11th grade, so I had to, you know, move out of the house, and I had already had a job, and so I already knew how to work.
Guest:Several jobs, so I already knew how to work.
Marc:Yeah, what were the jobs?
Marc:What were the?
Guest:I worked at this place, Oschlotzky's.
Marc:Oschlotzky's.
Marc:Yeah, that was like the- Big round sandwiches.
Guest:Yeah, I ate so much food there.
Marc:Yeah, that's what you remember?
Marc:Yeah, it was great.
Guest:So like, you know, you got to make like, no one ever came in there because it was a new company.
Marc:I remember when they came out.
Marc:Are we some more age?
Marc:You don't have to tell me, but I remember when Schlotzky's opened.
Marc:Schlotzky's?
Marc:Schlotzky's.
Marc:Well, I know when the first one showed up in Albuquerque, we were like, wow.
Marc:They were sort of based on muffalita sandwiches, right?
Marc:Yeah, that makes sense.
Marc:On New Orleans sandwiches.
Marc:So we thought it was this great new technology, sandwich technology.
Marc:And we were all very excited for five minutes.
Yeah.
Guest:I got a job at the Stein Printing Company, which is actually where my dad worked in the 70s.
Guest:But anyway, I got a job being a, you know, you have to, they make reams of paper, whatever.
Guest:So you have a big box of like all these colors, right?
Guest:Purple, green, blue, pink, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And you have to, you know, put the purple, green, blue, pink, yellow, white, you know, purple, green, blue, so they can make a ream of the different colored paper.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I did that all the time, and then that's when my dad was like, okay, you need to go find a place to live with your sister, my big sister, Mandy.
Guest:How's she doing?
Guest:She's all right.
Guest:She lives across the street from my mom, and she's married and travels a lot.
Guest:Her husband's a truck driver, so they spend a lot of time on the road.
Marc:But you were inspired by that guy, the emoting.
Guest:Well, it was just...
Guest:I don't know if it was emoting.
Guest:It was like, is this God or is this Satan?
Guest:It was really extreme.
Guest:It was art.
Guest:It wasn't posturing the spitting and the snarling.
Guest:He was actually possessed.
Marc:Were you able to answer that question eventually?
Marc:Which one?
Marc:Is it God or is it Satan?
Guest:Just human.
Marc:How much God and Satan did you grow up with?
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Too much.
Guest:Way too much.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Which form?
Marc:Human.
Marc:Yeah, what was the religion?
Guest:Oh, Southern Baptist.
Guest:Oh, so... A lot of Satan.
Marc:A lot of Satan.
Guest:Not a lot of God, a lot of Satan.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Demons, a lot of demons.
Marc:That was wired into you?
Guest:Very, very much so, yeah.
Marc:Did you have to get it out of you?
Guest:You know, I had to get...
Guest:I had to get laughed at by my ex.
Guest:He's born and raised in Japan.
Guest:Doesn't really have any sort of knowledge of religion.
Guest:And I was just like having kind of like a supreme meltdown of like fear, like super fear of like...
Guest:of damnation of just like I don't know just like a you know how much anxiety can you hold on you know carry around yeah as an adult and I was just said something about you know God or Satan or something and he just started fucking laughing he's just laughing at me just like he couldn't stop laughing yeah and then that I realized that you know I assimilated like
Guest:when you're a little kid, you know, God, Satan, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, you know, I was able to, you know, they say with like, when you have, find the spectrum.
Guest:Well, when you have like post-traumatic stress, you can do like cognitive therapy.
Guest:So I, I chose to look, you know, cause they always say like, you can't have God without a devil or something.
Guest:So I'd always like stick them together in my mind.
Guest:Like, you know, God, Satan, Easter Bunny, Santa, like just to get through it.
Marc:Uh huh.
Guest:So I got another job.
Guest:I was out of high school.
Marc:Out of No More Paper?
Guest:And my friend, this guy I knew in this band, Todd Furster, in this band called Donkey.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The guitar player was in this band with my boss at the time, Clay Harper.
Guest:They were in a band called The Cooleys from Atlanta.
Marc:From the paper place?
Guest:No, I was at Fellini's Pizza at this point.
Guest:So anyway, this guy Todd Furster was selling his Silvertone, and I didn't play guitar and didn't want to own a guitar, but it was the same guitar that Dexter had.
Marc:The guy you first saw in high school?
Guest:The guy, yeah, like a year and a half earlier, the guy who I saw, the Flat Duo Jets.
Marc:You had the cathartic white light experience.
Guest:I was like a piece of art.
Guest:I was like, you know, it's from the 50s, it's beautiful.
Guest:And I was like, it cost 70 bucks, so I was saving my money and said, hold on.
Guest:And so I used to stick it in my corner of my apartment and slowly but surely turned 19 and started getting bored with life and I don't have any money to go to the movies.
Yeah.
Guest:you know whatever so on my days off i would just like you know just play you know just pluck it not knowing where to put my fingers yeah and that's how i started and that's how you figured out some stuff some stuff yeah no lessons just no the dudes all the dudes at felini's it was all everybody was in a band all the dudes were in bands in atlanta oh every one of them yeah and all yeah you know i can show you how to play guitar
Guest:You know, if you come over tonight, hey, you got to let me teach you how to.
Guest:So it was like, not only did I not want to play like them.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I didn't, you know.
Marc:So you think you evolved?
Marc:Did you eventually figure out some stuff?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:obviously yeah yeah um you know i'd watch the certain because there was a lot of bands back then really great bands what year are we talking we're talking fuck 90 yeah yeah 90 91 92 93 94 but i moved to new york in 92 but there's some great bands and i could see how their hands were this is before like youtube videos sure learn how to do stuff but i could see how they'd be holding their hands you know uh-huh you know and so just from going to shows
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So all you did was go to shows?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But I also had to work every night till 2, so I very rarely got to go to shows.
Marc:At the pizza joint?
Guest:Yeah, Fellini's.
Marc:Fellini's Pizza.
Guest:Clay Harper's Place.
Marc:Still there?
Guest:He has a great solo record.
Guest:He has the new one, but the last one, so good.
Guest:I think I told you about it.
Guest:He loves you, too.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Does he still have the pizza place?
Marc:He sold it.
Guest:He's loaded.
Marc:He is?
Guest:He's a great guy, sober, 30 years.
Marc:From the pizza place he's loaded?
Marc:Yeah, he was in the Cooleys.
Marc:The Cooleys.
Marc:He was my boss.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So when do you start writing songs, Sean?
Marc:19.
Marc:19 years old.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And...
Marc:By that point, you know a few chords?
Marc:I'm not sure.
Guest:I really don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But how does cat power manifest?
Guest:There was a cap.
Guest:This man was wearing a cap.
Guest:I was playing.
Guest:I like to play drums.
Guest:I like to play whatever after work with my friends that are in bands, the Go Devils, different bands.
Marc:So you're like a rock kid in the Five Points scene, hanging out with all the dudes and girls who were part of that fucking- There weren't a lot of girls.
Guest:There were two girls.
Marc:Sweaty, smoking.
Guest:Just, you know, we're all working.
Guest:We're all broke.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We're all, you know.
Guest:But the problem is that heroin just took a hold of the city, of everybody.
Marc:When was that?
Guest:90- That was probably, 91 is when it really took a hold.
Marc:Did you start killing people?
Guest:No, everyone started dying later, but like 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97.
Guest:That tar shit?
Guest:But the addiction started like 91.
Guest:Things got ugly.
Marc:Everyone got strung out?
Guest:Everyone was getting strung out, and I didn't do it.
Guest:I wasn't a... Heroin person?
Guest:I was a heroin addict.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So it didn't... Anyway, so... Didn't take...
Guest:I don't think that I was, I feel like I was naive to it because I hadn't been around that type of addiction.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Is that when you took off?
Guest:92, yeah.
Guest:Because my friend Mark, Mark Moore, he was in a ton of bands, Atlanta, amazing guitar player.
Guest:He was always like, Sean, we have to start a band, we have to start a band, we have to start a band, we have to start a band, we have to start a band.
Guest:I don't want to start a band.
Guest:I like playing drums when we're drunk after work.
Guest:And then Damon Moore, whose girlfriend worked at Wax and Facts around the corner, she was in a band called Dirt.
Guest:She was in Seersucker.
Guest:So I kept telling my friend Mark, you're annoying me, stop.
Guest:And
Marc:Because he's asking me to get in a band?
Guest:Yeah, all the time.
Guest:And so he says, we had already jammed together, you know, a couple times.
Guest:And he said, if you start a band, if you start a band with me, Damon says he'll start the band.
Guest:He'll join the band.
Guest:And him and Jennifer had broken up at that point.
Guest:And I was just like, Damon was the most gentle.
Guest:He was like real stoic, sweet, kind, gentle, like good, you know, calm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:amazing guitar players sweet and cool and kind and I was like really like I couldn't believe that and then and then he goes and if Glenn my father figure character he was like and Glenn said that if Damon starts joins the band that the hill join the band and I was like Glenn what will he play
Guest:And he said, drums.
Guest:And I was like, well, Glenn's not a drummer.
Guest:You know, he's a rock critic, but whatever.
Guest:And we'd already jammed a couple times together.
Guest:And so that's why he was...
Guest:And then Fletcher.
Guest:He's like, Fletcher said he'll join the band.
Marc:Fletcher.
Guest:Fletcher was in King Kill 33 and a lot of other bands.
Marc:King Kill 33.
Marc:I know where that name comes from.
Guest:Do you know where that name comes from?
Guest:Is it from a puss or cat?
Guest:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:King Kill 33 Degree Latitude is a strange piece of writing done by a guy named James Shelby Downward, I think his name is, about the Masonic symbolism and the killing of John F. Kennedy.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to talk to Rob Schnapp.
Marc:Do I?
Guest:From Mant about his brother.
Marc:What about his brother?
Guest:And the killing of the assassination of JFK.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It'd be a great... I don't know if I need to talk to him about that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know if I think I'm good with the neural pathways I have.
Marc:I don't need to worm any other ones.
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:I don't need to make any new rabbit holes in my brain.
Marc:So these are your guys.
Guest:So he said, so he said, and we need a name for our band because we have a show on Thursday night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said, and we want you to come up with the name.
Guest:And there's this old man that worked on the trains in Atlanta, real big dude, huge hands.
Guest:His hands were like two giant callus balls.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:And he must have been maybe 88.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was wearing a cat diesel power cap that he's had since 1952.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I usually give him a slice and he'd get a pint, so he'd pay for the pint.
Right.
Guest:And he's standing there, and I'm like, one second.
Guest:On the phone, he's like, and they want you to come up with the name of the band.
Guest:I'm kind of like so overwhelmed.
Guest:And he says, and I'm like, me, why do I have to come?
Guest:Because you're the lead singer.
Guest:Why am I that?
Guest:Because you're a girl.
Guest:And I said, Cat Power hung up the phone.
Guest:And then about, and Glenn from Low Life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Father figured he worked at Kinko's.
Guest:That's how he made all his fanzines.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So about an hour later, they come walking in.
Guest:And I saw them outside.
Guest:You know, I didn't know what they're doing.
Marc:The band?
Yeah.
Marc:Well, Mark and Glenn.
Guest:And so I see them doing something to the post.
Guest:And it looks like they're putting something up.
Guest:And they come inside.
Guest:He's got a camel.
Guest:Glenn's got a camel unfiltered.
Guest:And he's like, hey, Sean.
Guest:And he's putting tape on the thing.
Guest:And I'm like, what the fuck is that?
Guest:And Mark's like, maybe you want to leave these here.
Guest:And it said Cat Power.
Guest:Live.
Guest:Live.
Guest:Opening up for Flap.
Guest:Flap, of course.
Guest:Have you heard of Flap?
Guest:No.
Guest:They're amazing.
Guest:They're classically trained.
Guest:They use the acoustic guitar and they do black metal, heavy metal covers and this and that.
Guest:Are they still around?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just got to see them in August.
Guest:With waiting for UFOs, it was so fun.
Guest:Next time it happens, I'll let you know.
Guest:It's so much fun.
Marc:I don't do enough live music.
Guest:It's so fun.
Guest:They do it in the front yard of this artist.
Marc:Is it here?
Guest:No, it's in Atlanta.
Marc:Oh, well, I have to go to Atlanta to see it?
Marc:Yeah, it's so fun.
Marc:You don't have a house in Atlanta anymore, do you?
Guest:I do, but I sold it.
Marc:Oh, okay, I get it.
Marc:You're down by the water now in Florida.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I'm about to get out of there, too, because it's like all the Trumps came out of the woodwork.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So where are you going to go now?
Guest:I can't decide.
Guest:I can't decide if it's like- You thinking about coming back here?
Guest:I can't decide if it's like Portugal, Denmark, upstate- You're out.
Guest:You know, I'm not sure what to do.
Marc:So that's upstate New York or Portugal or Denmark?
Guest:Sicily or upstate New York or, you know, Santa Barbara.
Marc:That's a lot of different kinds of options.
Guest:I know, and I don't know what to do.
Marc:Do you prefer dirty?
Guest:I love dirty, and I like dry.
Marc:So nothing rural, maybe?
Guest:I like rural, but I like water a lot.
Guest:I like water.
Guest:I like desert and water.
Marc:Got it.
Marc:That's two totally different things.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:That's why Sicily's, you know.
Marc:Sicily, I get nervous when I can't speak the language.
Guest:Oh, you can handle it?
Marc:Have you been to Sicily?
Guest:You just have to, na, na, na, wait, ma, ma, ma, ma, ma.
Marc:It'll work out.
Marc:Have you been to Sicily?
Marc:Just point.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:You've been everywhere.
Guest:Not Russia and not Israel, not Russia, not Cuba, not... I've been to Israel.
Guest:Not... Russia, no Russia.
Guest:Not West Africa and not...
Marc:China?
Guest:I've been there a couple times.
Marc:Where?
Marc:Beijing?
Marc:Hong Kong?
Guest:Beijing, Shanghai.
Marc:Shanghai.
Guest:You know, the regular stops, but not Hong Kong.
Marc:All for gigs?
Guest:All for gigs, yeah.
Guest:All for gigs.
Marc:Yay, all for gigs.
Marc:So, this first Cat Power outfit, how long were you with them?
Marc:Did they make it through the first record?
Guest:About six months.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:And the heroin and everything just kind of took over.
Marc:Were you playing all original songs?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, there was a DeCruyzen cover.
Guest:Our first show was at the Claremont Lounge in Atlanta.
Guest:It was never a big venue.
Guest:So it was all our friends.
Guest:That's what Robert, my old roommate, the first show, where I was like, I'm not... He's like, what time's your thing?
Guest:At the flap thing?
Guest:The first one.
Guest:I was like, I'm not fucking going to that.
Guest:And he was like, you're a fucking chicken.
Guest:He's like, I hear you in your fucking room.
Guest:singing these little songs yeah you're just a chicken made me feel bad and we were like you know drink our big thing was drinking black coffee and smoking weed yeah at night and um
Guest:So he made me feel bad.
Guest:So he drove me down there and the cops were there.
Guest:Show's over.
Guest:It's not happening.
Guest:And all these college kids.
Guest:I don't know college people.
Guest:So I think it was Flap's audience were there.
Guest:But I could hear them all playing down there.
Guest:So I was going to go warn them, like, the cops are here.
Guest:And I walked down and they're just like, you know, it's their moment.
Guest:And I just left them there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So my roommate passed away suddenly in a car accident, and he was in love with this girl.
Guest:He was in love with a few girls, and he was 24 when he passed.
Guest:I had to call a mutual friend of ours from Tennessee, Lily.
Guest:She had moved to New York from Atlanta, and she bullshitted Virgin Records and walked in and said...
Guest:you know i am a manager and i've put out she just left her whole resume was a complete lie yes and that afternoon she's driving iggy pop around for interviews like she got a job at virgin records whatever making like a ton of money yeah and then quit so she could work hospice for aids um you know um patients yes but anyway so i called her and i said you know robert has passed and
Guest:And anyway, so she contacted me a couple weeks later and she said that there's a room open that really kind of like I was already going through stuff like with people like, you know, like being like turning into little monsters sort of with the drugs.
Guest:And I was sensitive, I guess, because I really cared about, you know what I mean?
Guest:People you care about.
Guest:And she's like, Sean, I have a room open in New York City.
Guest:We lived on 4th between A and B. And she's like, come check out this room.
Guest:I was like, I can't live in New York City.
Guest:I can't afford that.
Guest:So I saved up my money and I bought a ticket.
Guest:And I went up there and had so much fun.
Guest:Just hung out with her on the fire escape.
Guest:4th between A and B?
Marc:I lived on 2nd between A and B.
Guest:I still live on AMB.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:But, yeah, that's cool.
Marc:So what year was that?
Marc:Was I there?
Guest:That was 92.
Guest:So I went back.
Marc:Just leaving.
Guest:And I, one month later, like I sold all my little shithole stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In Atlanta.
Guest:In Atlanta.
Guest:Told my, told Cat Power that I was, you know, there's just no band.
Guest:You guys can do the band.
Guest:I'm out of here.
Guest:I'm going to, told my boss, my work.
Guest:Oh, blah.
Guest:And so I saved up, you know, like $1,500 or whatever.
Marc:And you went to New York?
Guest:And I went to New York, and the week before, the week or three days before I went to New York, Glenn Thrasher from Low Life, from W.R.A.K., you know, fully, you know, addict at that time.
Guest:And I was naive to his problem, because I loved him so much, you know.
Guest:But I was pissed, you know, at how he was transforming.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And he said, Sean, I'm moving to New York, too.
Guest:And I was like, what?
Guest:And he said, I got a job as a secretary of the vice president of the Yeshiva Law School.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so he ended up moving there the same week.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so then, so that was my friend, because I'm going to not be friends with my friend, who I'm terribly worried about.
Right.
Marc:He must have gotten worse there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so he started taking me to different things, like ABC No Rio, you know, and different free jazz, this and that stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was with this jazz sax player in South Africa.
Guest:I lived there for a few months, but fell in love with this guy, and he turned me on to that record Crescent by John Coltrane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One day we were at ABC No Rio, and he's like, Sean...
Guest:you know we can play here anytime we want and i was like play here and he's like yeah just you and me and i was like play here you know like i'm trying to like figure out what he means because like like what do you mean play here because like the dudes are in atlanta and you know i you don't really even play drums and like you know whatever and so that was our first show were you doing your stuff
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that was sort of the first New York event.
Marc:Did you tape it?
Guest:No.
Marc:But at that time you had no idea.
Marc:You didn't know the direction you were going.
Marc:So you meet that guy from Matador Records and you don't.
Guest:I don't.
Guest:I didn't know.
Marc:Nothing registered.
Guest:No, no, no, no, no.
Marc:So when did you finally put together a set of songs?
Guest:Well, I always had some songs, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then when does it happen?
Guest:We got Fletcher, Mark and Damon to come up from, you know, Atlanta and we got to play CB's together.
Guest:I don't remember who was on the bill.
Guest:And then it became me and Glenn alone.
Guest:And then I got an alert, alert, alert, alert.
Guest:Glenn's like, help, the cops are after me and this and that.
Guest:So I got him some dope, got him on the plane, got him to Atlanta.
Guest:Sharon and Craig were like, how could you not tell us that he was an addict?
Guest:And I was like, I had no idea.
Guest:But he's like, when they're going through withdrawals, either could die and it looks like they're dying.
Guest:So I didn't know what to do.
Guest:He's begging me, please do that.
Marc:Get him dope?
Guest:Yes, so he could get on the plane, be functional, whatever.
Marc:And you did.
Guest:Instead of him going to jail, because he was in big trouble.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:And he made it out?
Marc:Is he still around?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Yeah, he works at Acapella Books.
Guest:So a year later, I get a voicemail from Sharon saying, hey, I got an email from you.
Guest:I don't know what email is.
Guest:I go to their apartment.
Guest:It's a computer.
Guest:It has a thing.
Guest:It's a letter.
Guest:It's from Italy.
Guest:It says, I would like to do a record with you.
Guest:I love your single.
Yeah.
Guest:a really good typer like I made straight A's in you know art and typing yeah and I was like I'm not a band thank you so much see you later yeah and then about three weeks later I get an answer machine on the thing message from Sharon and
Guest:Saying, hi, Sean.
Guest:I hope you won't be mad at me, but I booked you a solo show next Sunday at CBGB's gallery.
Guest:Call me.
Guest:and um i was just like i was really i was i was bummed out really yeah like it felt like you're being pressured no just like manipulate it felt like it just felt like you know i didn't understand much i didn't trust people didn't know people yeah i only knew like who i knew and i did my work i have these jobs i didn't you know it wasn't i didn't used to look at people in the eye a lot back then like real super shy yeah
Guest:And mentally, like, my mental health was very questionable.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Every day, you know.
Marc:In what way?
Guest:Just like, you know, super, like, all that stuff.
Guest:Remember, like, Satan, God, Santa, you know.
Marc:Yeah, Easter Bunny.
Marc:All that stuff.
Guest:You don't, you know, you don't really...
Guest:you know you don't know who to talk to sure trust yeah talk about crazy thoughts right because like if you know if if god and satan are real then fuck all this other shit is real yeah you know what i mean then what isn't yeah if you open then what isn't real you know so
Marc:So you were struggling with reality.
Guest:I was really struggling, yeah, with my private thoughts around people who seem to have everything together all the time.
Marc:And so you had to keep that to yourself?
Marc:All the time.
Marc:So did the songwriting help that?
Guest:Yeah, a lot, yeah.
Marc:And when you were able to sing, did it help that?
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:I just didn't like to sing.
Guest:I felt like it was so personal or whatever.
Marc:I feel the same way, but I'm not a singer.
Marc:It scares the hell out of me.
Guest:Well, then I got sober in 2006 when The Greatest Record came out.
Marc:That's a great record, by the way.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:All those records from The Greatest backwards.
Guest:I was suicidal.
Marc:I think you can hear that on some of the records.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Well, I've never actually... It's interesting.
Guest:I never realized it was that factual that that was actually the case.
Guest:It was just a part of my...
Guest:personality from being young to 30-something years old.
Marc:The idea of suicidal ideation?
Guest:Well, someone could hide that, you know, and it just be a fabric of their thoughts all the time.
Marc:Do you think it was like a clinical depression?
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:And stress, you know, like.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Because, like, I listen to a lot of the records again.
Guest:Loneliness.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Fear.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:All this stuff.
Marc:The first few records are so vulnerable and raw.
Marc:Even if I don't listen to the words, just the tone of your voice and the tenor of the music.
Guest:I wasn't singing.
Guest:I was just like... I did this anyway.
Guest:In 2012, I did this thing where I had this autoimmune thing pop up.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:It's called H-A-E, angioedema, and basically my esophagus, different parts, like my eyeball, the membrane of my eyeball would swell up, but my whole esophagus would swell up and can't breathe.
Guest:In like 45 minutes or an hour and a half, I can asphyxiate.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Is there medicine for it?
Guest:There is.
Guest:It's an herb.
Guest:It's called Apis, A-P-I-S.
Guest:It's what you take normally for bee stings.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But it's brought on by extreme, extreme stress.
Guest:But I had a friend that in L.A., she's from Argentina, but she goes to church and she goes to non-denominational church.
Guest:There was a lady, a minister at her church, who was like, you know, is there someone in the audience who knows somebody who's a singer?
Guest:She's got short blonde hair.
Guest:I had short blonde hair at the time.
Guest:She needs help right now.
Guest:And if anybody knows her, I need to talk to you.
Guest:And so my friend went and talked to her and she said, I need to talk to her on the phone today as soon as possible.
Guest:And so my friend from Peru, my best friend, she said, hey, can I bring her over?
Guest:And I can't even talk because of tubes, you know, when you go into intensive care.
Guest:Anyway, so I can't even talk.
Guest:I'm super delirious.
Guest:And so she hands me the phone and she says, hey, honey.
Guest:And she's Southern.
Guest:She says, hey, can you talk about, you know, can I talk to you for a second?
Guest:And I was like, sure.
Guest:She said, do you believe in God?
Guest:And I was like, I believe Jesus is real, you know, a real human.
Guest:And she goes, okay, perfect.
Guest:She said, do you mind if I pray with you?
Guest:And I said, sure.
Guest:I can't really even talk.
Guest:My throat hurts so bad.
Guest:And she starts praying, you know, da-da-da-da-da.
Guest:And I hear like, I think it's my friend's phone.
Guest:It's like a flip phone.
Guest:And I think the signal must be bad because it goes.
Guest:And I was like, oh, and I wanted to say something like that.
Guest:But she keeps praying.
Guest:So I didn't say anything.
Guest:And then like listening and then she prays a little louder.
Guest:And then the phone again.
Guest:And I was like, OK.
Guest:And then and then all of a sudden.
Guest:I had to cough really bad.
Guest:I had to cough, and she's praying.
Guest:She's praying a little more like... She's almost like singing.
Guest:She's praying comfortably long.
Guest:And so I really had to cough.
Guest:And I was like, as soon as I was about to cough, in the phone, there was a voice on the phone went... And I was like, I want to say that wasn't me, but I didn't.
Guest:But she started praying a little faster.
Guest:And then the phone went...
Guest:And then I heard a few more coughs with different people, different voices.
Guest:And then she really started praying.
Guest:And then I kind of was like, is this real?
Guest:What's happening?
Guest:And then I didn't have to cough.
Guest:And then I was like, you know what?
Guest:I'm going to spit.
Guest:Open the window.
Guest:And she's really like, I start spitting.
Guest:And my friends are looking at me.
Guest:And I'm like...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Spitting out the window.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she's praying so fast and there's like about I'd say 40 different human beings that are coughing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In the phone.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then she wound up.
Guest:We both said amen at the same time.
Guest:And she's like, how do you feel, darling?
Guest:And I was like, I feel fine.
Guest:And my throat didn't hurt.
Guest:And she's like, okay.
Guest:Well, you know, you come and see me at the... And I was like, okay.
Guest:And she hung up.
Guest:So I handed her the phone, and I could talk, and my throat didn't hurt.
Guest:And I haven't had nightmares.
Guest:I had nightmares my whole entire... Really?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:All the people coming to my room, different stuff, like awfulness.
Guest:And I hadn't, since my son, that was before my son was born in 2012, I started having nightmares about eight months after he was born, 2015.
Marc:Oh, that's when they started?
Marc:Again, yeah.
Marc:But different.
Marc:Oh, oh, oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:More like, not like that.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Not so scary.
Guest:More like, just like, presents.
Marc:Have you ever been treated with...
Guest:You mean psychologically?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, I have.
Guest:I've been treated for, um, I've been treated by three different, um, really quickly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I need help.
Guest:Like, you know, having a nervous breakdown from stress and fear and depression.
Guest:And I don't know who to talk to, you know, gone to a few different people, doctors for help.
Guest:And each one said, Oh, you're bipolar.
Guest:You're bipolar.
Guest:You're bipolar.
Guest:You need this medication.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The other one said, you need this medication.
Guest:Other one said, you need this medication.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so when I made the very apparent decision that I needed to not do drugs and alcohol, that was in 2006.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went to a therapist that I was actually able to communicate with and talk to about things and about, you know, like day-to-day stuff.
Guest:Touching on some past things and people who were in my life at this time.
Guest:And getting me to acknowledge certain behaviors and reactions.
Guest:And after doing that for a long time...
Guest:And he told me, 2008, right before I moved to LA, he had put me on an antidepressant, mild antidepressant, a low dose or whatever.
Guest:And he said, I really need to pull you off of that because you're not even a depressive personality type.
Guest:You're suffering from just PTSD.
Guest:You need cognitive behavioral therapy.
Guest:You don't need...
Guest:You know, you're not even a depressive personality type.
Guest:So it was just, it was just stress that I couldn't handle.
Guest:Was that a relief?
Guest:Oh man, I was, yes, totally.
Marc:And you were able to track?
Guest:I was the happiest I ever was in my life.
Marc:And when you were out here?
Guest:And then I moved, it was right before I moved out here.
Marc:And you were able to track it, like the source of the trauma and, you know, the reactions?
Guest:Yeah, I'd been like, you know, I never talked about anything in my, like, life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, like, one little thing when I was 21.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I never, you know, and it took, like, years to say something when I was, like, maybe 29.
Marc:About your life?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, the... I don't usually talk about it.
Guest:The source of... The stuff, yeah.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:But it's okay.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Everybody has their thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know?
Marc:But you were able to talk about it with that guy.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And he was good at like being able to like, you know, like show me that how I was feeling was, you know, how I was feeling then.
Guest:And then I was carrying that feeling.
Marc:You were reacting to it your whole life.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:As if it was happening now.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Again and again and again.
Marc:So you're constantly in that state.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, certain things would trigger that state, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Panic, fear, you know, self-doubt and like, but mostly based on like fear.
Guest:It's all fear driven, you know.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I was able to sort of like.
Marc:Panic.
Guest:Well, I was able to, yeah, it was always fear based.
Uh-huh.
Guest:It was always just that feeling of fear and I was able to like objectify the feeling of panic and narrow it down to that it's just I feel afraid and I have to think about now why do I feel afraid right now?
Guest:And I'd have to look at the points of like I'm totally safe.
Guest:I'm in a safe environment.
Guest:I've put myself around a safe person and all that kind of stuff.
Marc:So that was the cognitive work.
Guest:Yeah, the being able to understand how I'm feeling and define it and to look at it.
Marc:So would you say like then, yeah, the bulk of those- And breathing.
Marc:Yes, yes.
Marc:So when you look at the first three or four records, are you like, that's me just barely keeping it together and trying to reckon with all these things that I haven't defined yet, give it voice?
Right.
Guest:I think the options when you're struggling, no matter how old you are, whether or not you're in tune with yourself or not, we always try to find an option out of the pain or the fear, whether we know ourselves or not, whether we're young or old.
Guest:We always attempt to flee.
Guest:Or fight it.
Guest:So I think that is what it was, was being able to sit with it and sing and play was a way to guide this sort of inner hostility out of myself.
Marc:Like an exorcism.
Guest:Sort of.
Guest:I don't know if that word needs to be used.
Marc:No.
Guest:A processing.
Guest:Like if I were like, because I used to love to like, you know, I love to sew.
Guest:I love to like, you know, knit and needlepoint and paint and write.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, basketball and tennis.
Guest:And I love to do things, you know, food and cooking.
Guest:Like, I love to do things.
Guest:And as an active mind, you know, you all those things are like tools.
Guest:They're creative parts of us.
Guest:You know, you know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, they.
Marc:Well, if you enjoy them, they ground you in something real.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And that guitar and those songs are something real.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then I can move on to like the other real stuff.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know?
Marc:So is your- Reading.
Marc:Is your doorway into real, into the present?
Guest:Yeah, just exactly.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Correct.
Guest:I didn't know how they were going to sound, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And were you surprised that the world took to you?
Guest:I was only surprised when I was met.
Guest:I was surprised, yes.
Guest:I was consistently always, always surprised.
Guest:But there were advantages.
Guest:Like...
Guest:That night I played that solo show because I was watching The Simpsons.
Guest:I had two TVs, a color one, black and white.
Guest:Just because?
Guest:Yeah, because I could watch Channel 13 on the black and white all the time because I always had something.
Guest:Always the news was on the color one.
Guest:And if I ever wanted to watch one or the other, I could turn the mute on one.
Marc:You just like having company?
Guest:Well, I mean, there was some great shit, like I learned about Malcolm X from the PBS, Channel 13 New York TV.
Marc:Oh, so the black and white one was the local antenna pickup?
Guest:Yeah, that was Channel 13, and the color was like Simpsons.
Marc:The cable?
Guest:No, there was no cable.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:It was on regular television.
Marc:Okay, so you performed that night, and you were watching- Well, no, so I got home from work, and-
Guest:And I had my tie on.
Guest:I worked at this place called the, whatever, Carnegie Hill Cafe, 92nd, Madison Avenue between 92nd and 93rd.
Guest:And I still have dreams about showing up to work and being like, can I work?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then being like, no, because that's how I got my job there.
Guest:I'd show up.
Guest:I'd just show up.
Guest:So by the end of it, like the eighth time, the chef came out and she's like, are you the one that keeps coming up here and asking for your fucking job?
Guest:You're hired.
Marc:Yeah, you just chose that place?
Guest:Well, because my NYU roommate sat at that hotel, that apartment on 4th Street.
Guest:My friend Lily moved away.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she left.
Guest:The one who came from Georgia.
Guest:The hospice aide's work was getting from Tennessee originally.
Guest:But it was like given her, she was breaking down.
Guest:She couldn't handle the mental stress of the hospice person.
Guest:All these friends passing away.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:So I got off work, got to the 6th train.
Guest:Walked to my apartment, shut the door, had the village voice, turned on my TVs.
Guest:It's Sunday.
Guest:It's 8 o'clock.
Guest:Something's coming on.
Guest:Took off my fake clip-on, baby blue, satin tie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it wasn't a clip-on.
Guest:It was a real tie.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Sorry, but I've had clip-ons.
Guest:Anyway...
Guest:And it was a commercial break and Simpsons commercial break.
Guest:And I opened the Village Voice.
Guest:I was like pretending that I wasn't looking, but I knew I was looking for the CBGB's gallery.
Guest:It was a CBGB's gallery.
Guest:And it said 8.30 Cat Power Solo.
Guest:And I was like, ha, ha, ha.
Guest:And I shut the magazine.
Guest:I felt, you know.
Marc:It was that night?
Guest:Yeah, on Sunday.
Guest:I was like, I'm not going.
Guest:And then I thought of like my friend who I'd become friends with, Gerard Cosloy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He'll be there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jeff Cash fan, this art noise friend.
Guest:And then Harry Drew's bartender from Max Fish.
Guest:And I thought, oh, fuck, they're going to pay $3.
Guest:Fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I grabbed my guitar, didn't have a case, and my amp.
Guest:And I just, you know, walked two blocks, whatever it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And went and played my songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:saw i worked at the xerox tour called todd's copy and jim jarmusch's assistant her name is beer getting yeah and so i was kind of nervous i saw henry i mean uh sorry harry drews yeah he was there so i was right about that jeff was there anyway and i just waited for her on the steps and i watched this woman beer get and because she was assistant for jim and she was playing a accordion yeah
Guest:And she was kind of like Nina Hagen, you know, but it was kind, you know, and, you know, like it was like, oh, I can play here.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like it was kind of nuts.
Guest:I can, you know, do my little.
Marc:Oh, she can do that.
Marc:I can do that.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You knew it was a free zone.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Very safe.
Guest:And so I got back.
Marc:How did it go?
Marc:Do you feel about it?
Guest:There is a video of that, though.
Guest:She videotaped it.
Guest:But I got home, there was a blinking message, and it was Gerard.
Guest:And he said, hey, Sean, it's Gerard.
Guest:Sorry, Mr. Show, tonight.
Guest:Do you want to open up?
Guest:And on the cover of that, you know, Village Horse, it was this girl named Liz Fair.
Guest:I don't know who that is.
Guest:I didn't know who that was.
Guest:And she had her legs spread.
Guest:You know, she was standing on two twin beds.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, jumping up or whatever with a guitar.
Guest:I didn't know who that was.
Guest:But he said, do you want to open up for Liz Fair on Thursday night?
Guest:You'll get $200 and you won't be billed and you'll only play 20 minutes.
Guest:And I was like, bee, bee.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, yeah, great.
Guest:Can they pay me cash?
Guest:And he's like, don't worry, because I didn't have a checking account.
Guest:And he's like, yeah, don't worry about that.
Guest:And that's where I met at Soundcheck.
Guest:I mean, not billed, 20 minutes, 200 bucks.
Guest:And I bust on my ass to maybe get 70 bucks a day working three jobs, assistant, Xerox, cafe.
Guest:So I show up and I go to the Soundcheck.
Guest:And I didn't know about dressing rooms or nothing, you know.
Guest:And so I'm at Princeton Amp.
Guest:Anyway, and I go and I do my sound check.
Guest:And the Silvertone?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so do the sound check.
Guest:You know, I've never done a sound check before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do the sound check.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I see all these people lined up on the side of the stage.
Guest:There's no one there.
Guest:It's at Town Hall in New York City.
Marc:I just played there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I look over and I see all these people, all these people, all these people.
Guest:Because I knew that Kurt Cobain had just supposedly committed suicide.
Guest:And so he was supposed to play that night with the raincoats.
Guest:He was supposed to fly in and play this show Nirvana with the raincoats.
Marc:The day after Kurt Cobain died?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And so the raincoats... I didn't know who that was.
Guest:So there was these women and then this other woman and these men.
Guest:They're all lined up against the wall because I guess they're soundchecking next.
Guest:And so it was the raincoats, but I didn't realize that at the time.
Guest:And it was Suzanne Sasek who's like the...
Guest:you know the lighting director for uh sonic youth for years and different whatever and it was steve shelley and tim folion who'd been like best friends since they lived in you know ann arbor or whatever uh-huh so i'm done with my sound check and i go behind the curtain i put my amp down move the curtain and so tim and steve come over and um they're like hey what's the name of your band how are you playing where are you from
Guest:whatever and i'm just i can't even look up i can't look in their eyes you know whatever and i'm just really uncomfortable and then uh he says uh tim says hey we're gonna go get mexican you want yeah so yeah i'm starving like i love mexican food yeah
Guest:And he's like, you get a buyout.
Guest:I don't know what a buyout is.
Guest:He slaps like $10.
Guest:Wow, wow, wow.
Guest:Free money.
Guest:So I go in the corner and this guy walks up to Steve and he says, hey, man.
Guest:And Tim's like, oh, yeah.
Guest:Steve used to play in the crucifix with this guy.
Guest:And I was like, oh, crucifix.
Guest:And then I hear the guy go, oh, yeah.
Guest:So Kim and Thurston, they coming down tonight?
Guest:and it was just like i could hear the psycho music like what have i done what am i doing yeah and so i just i went and sat there and ordered my food and i couldn't eat and i just got up and left i just felt so uncomfortable yeah like you know sonic youth you know
Guest:the gods right and um yeah so i went to the um went to play my show and i was done playing my show and then i leave at town hall yeah and i had one friend terry gillis from tg-170 on low low um because lily was gone and my other friend was gone so i play my show till 20 minutes come outside and he's yelling at me
Guest:miss powers you want to go back on you want to go back on and i was like like looking at him like why would i ever want to go back on and he holds the curtain and everyone's standing and they're going insane and they're screaming and they're banging all the things and they're going crazy and i was like in shock like this isn't real this isn't reality and i said no i want to find my friend so i opened the curtain to find my one friend and all these people these little young you know these my peer group yeah
Guest:You know, these college kids are like, can I get an interview with you?
Guest:They hold like a little press machine tape recorder, a pen, you know, and they're like, can I get an interview?
Guest:Can I take a photo?
Guest:Can I get your autograph?
Guest:Can I do this?
Guest:My professor loves your CD.
Guest:And I was like, I'm not Liz Fair.
Guest:And they all turned around and were like, dude.
Guest:And they left.
Guest:And then I laughed so hard.
Guest:And then Terry came and I saw Gerard and I was like, you got the money's all.
Guest:Sorry, I don't have cash.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:I made a mistake.
Marc:So you didn't go back for the encore.
Guest:No, I left and did Max Fish probably.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:And then you got the deal with the records.
Guest:Then Tim was like, you know, do you want to play?
Guest:Do you want to Steve would really like to play?
Guest:And then he'd really like to record.
Guest:And it took me about, I'd say, I don't know how, maybe two months, three months to feel comfortable about, you know, going out to Hoboken and like, you know, playing with Steve Shelley and playing with...
Guest:Tim and I used to hang out a lot.
Guest:We'd do karaoke and hang out with Terry.
Guest:I was just so scared of the gods.
Guest:The judge?
Guest:No, it wasn't that.
Guest:It was just like...
Guest:you know when you're like super poor you grew up super poor you don't feel and not very educated not not academically anyway you don't you don't feel like part of anything really you don't right you know there's no there's no you know there's no it's a different world and you feel like you just need to be a person with a job
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I went to 13 schools in 10 years.
Guest:I was constantly moving around as a kid.
Marc:Were you able to?
Guest:Sorry, I never really had like a, what do you call it, a click.
Marc:Were you able to get grounded though in New York?
Guest:Grounded.
Marc:I mean, did you find a click?
Guest:Every time I was leaving.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I made relationships, friendships.
Guest:To this day, it's always one-on-one.
Guest:It's never, you know.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:A group.
Marc:It's never.
Marc:So that was the beginning of it, and then it just went.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then it just went.
Marc:Because I was listening to the records, you know, and it's interesting to kind of listen to them in a row.
Marc:But what's weird is that like, so you churn out those first four records and then you do the first covers record.
Marc:It was almost like you needed to cleanse your palate or something.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I had started playing solo with my friend from Waiting for UFOs in Atlanta.
Guest:He was in a band called Smoke.
Guest:He had booked me at this thing to play with Carl Dreyer, Passion of Joan of Arc.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so it got canceled, so I wasn't able to do it.
Marc:You were going to play along with the movie?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And so then I was like, well, I want to do that.
Guest:So then I started, like, I booked a tour in America, and then I was headed to Australia.
Marc:And you did it?
Guest:And so I started playing with that movie.
Marc:With that movie, yeah.
Guest:And just playing and playing.
Guest:But then I started...
Guest:did you vocalize during it too yeah and then i started then i suddenly had an album of covers that i was playing this thing so i ran to matador and i was like hey i really sorry and this is the way it is with every i've only done three now yeah but i always like ask if i could do it sorry to interrupt sorry to you know ask for a different thing that you were not expecting right but can we do this
Guest:Because I was afraid that it would just disappear, it would go away if it didn't get recorded, it didn't become an artifact or something like this.
Marc:What, the covers record?
Marc:Or you just wanted to keep working?
Guest:Well, keep working, but if I... Because I signed a contract, another record I had to do.
Guest:So can I do this record?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Was that easier than doing original shit?
Guest:It's not easier.
Guest:It's just original shit is also easier because there are different parts of my life.
Marc:No one's going to judge it against anything either.
Guest:It's not what I'm thinking.
Guest:It's just there are different parts in my life when I just am doing some covers.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:So there are different points in my life.
Marc:And you're doing those live too?
Marc:Like when you do the covers?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:What do you mean?
Marc:Well, I mean, like, that's part of your show?
Marc:Like, when you tour?
Marc:I mean, like, at the time you did that first covers record, were you doing several covers in your live shows?
Guest:That was what I was playing when I was watching that movie.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:Because I didn't know what the hell to play.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was depressed by the other stuff, so I was, you know.
Marc:Yeah, so you're like, let's get it down.
Guest:No, let's just, let me play some stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I don't know chords, so I don't know how to do, like, you know, Stairway to Heaven or, you know.
Marc:Sure, how do you pick your bands?
Guest:Well, usually I like to, I mean, I like to, you know, respect them as a musician and as a human being.
Guest:That's pretty much, that's it.
Marc:Because it seems like when, like, you are free and the greatest seemed like the most, like, in terms, like, you can feel, I don't want to call it growth because it's different, but it seemed like you had sort of an open heart or there was something...
Guest:I was getting pressured to do the next record, and I was on tour in England, and we were at a dim sum place, and the company said, he had a laptop, and he said, we need you to tell me what your dream scenario is for your next record, because I was just going to just tour forever.
Marc:This is before which record?
Guest:The greatest.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And so, just off the top of my head, I was like, because I was thinking of Otis Redding's band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was like, Al Green's band.
Guest:And he wrote it in the computer, and then he said, where?
Guest:And I said, Memphis.
Guest:And he said, who's producer?
Guest:And I said, no producer, I'm the producer.
Guest:And I said, Stuart Sykes, because he'd been working with the White Stripes, and I met him a long time ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I did the community thing, he was the assistant engineer.
Guest:I said, Stuart Sykes is an engineer.
Guest:He said, perfect, done.
Guest:And so later that, you know, before we were done with our food, it had all been organized for me.
Marc:And that's how the crew came together for the greatest?
Guest:And I was living in a bottle then, because that was like right before the sobriety happened.
Guest:So I was just like...
Guest:I was just like, you know, I was really, you know, when the record came out, I was in treatment to not have the alcohol.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You went in?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For 28 days?
Marc:Mm-mm.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:No, not that long.
Marc:I've been in.
Marc:I did the full ride with the bad food.
Marc:Got pudgy.
Marc:I didn't eat, didn't sleep.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Mm-mm.
Marc:Did you have real DTs?
No.
Guest:What's that mean?
Marc:I mean, did you shake and sweat and vomit?
Guest:No.
Marc:No, that's good.
Marc:Because that record is like so, it's a great fucking record.
Marc:And when I listened to it yesterday, I was like, oh, I used to listen to this a lot.
Guest:Mine was more like becoming like,
Guest:Mine was like removing the substance so that I could think.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:But at first it's like... It was more like cognitive.
Marc:But it must have been kind of crazy thoughts for... Definitely.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Like, you know, coming to, coming out of the... Yeah, waking the hell up.
Marc:Yeah, coming out of the tunnel.
Guest:And like knocking on the... Hi, I'm here.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:I was refusing to talk to anyone for six days, but I see what's happening.
Marc:Do you like that record?
Yeah.
Guest:you know i do of course because the songs are so sad and like teeny basically brought soul happiness joy to all those songs maybe that's the thing that there was a balance yeah absolutely a counterbalance was that the first time he felt that happen ever absolutely because that's what it is actually yeah because that's he brought joy and light and love and soul to it against the you know right that's what makes it so unique huh
Marc:Holy shit.
Guest:That's how he plays.
Guest:That's soul music.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thank God for that kid.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:He just had a birthday.
Guest:Yeah, so I moved out here in 2008 and got into an unstable relationship that I didn't realize was toxic because I've never really had a successful relationship.
Marc:And you're newly sober at that time?
Guest:No, I'd been sober about a year.
Marc:That's still pretty raw.
Guest:Yeah, I guess.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:For me, anyways.
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Guest:Well, I had started after, like, I'd say a year and a half, I started having a little wine, you know.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:But, yeah, because, like, I was... So not sober.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I was only sober, like, hardcore sober for about a year and a half.
Marc:Okay, yeah.
Guest:But, like, I was able to... It was a lot to do.
Guest:Things in childhood with being around addiction and stuff.
Yeah.
Guest:That kind of stuff.
Guest:I had already been in tune to making promises to myself as a little kid.
Marc:Things not to do.
Marc:You're not going to be that.
Guest:After being where I was in 2000, when I got out of that, yeah, there's no way you can get me back to that state of mind or frame of mind.
Marc:So you get into this toxic relationship?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I just held on and like, you know, tried to like, you know, I think a lot of people do this.
Guest:I know a lot of women do this.
Guest:I know men do it too.
Guest:Why?
Guest:They try to kind of like...
Guest:make the other one more comfortable than yourself because maybe the other one is not self-aware.
Guest:So they're kind of like malcontent-ish at times and they don't take acknowledgement for abusive things they do and stuff.
Guest:Growing up in a sort of hostile environment, I tend to recoil and I don't...
Guest:I don't yell.
Guest:I don't I just like, oh, get me the hell out of here.
Guest:You know, you know, I shut down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that kind of like created these strange boundaries were set.
Guest:And I stupidly kept believing that they would get better.
Guest:But more boundaries kept coming.
Guest:And it was really difficult psychologically for me.
Guest:It felt like a game, like a really intense structure of how someone's used to dealing with women.
Guest:And I've...
Guest:I needed to go through that to learn how could I let myself get in that situation.
Guest:I had to go through that to see, wow, I really fucked myself by letting somebody take that much control over my life and over my life.
Guest:me my friends contacting my friends being me I let someone you know slowly like take control over me and my life so the sun record was basically like me like trying to like you know
Guest:Get out.
Guest:Get out.
Guest:It just makes sense in my head.
Guest:Reemerge.
Guest:I know I'm competent.
Guest:I know I'm intelligent.
Guest:I know I'm kind.
Guest:I know I'm graceful.
Guest:I know I'm empathetic.
Guest:I know I'm friendly.
Guest:I know I'm funny.
Guest:I know I'm clean, safe, harmonious, interested in...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People are whatever.
Guest:I know I'm all right.
Guest:So I just that record was just me trying to like focus on like my inner voice.
Marc:Well, it's weird when you grow up with that emotional unpredictability and violence, emotional violence or real violence.
Marc:I have the same thing.
Marc:When somebody is abusive, and I've been abusive, right?
Marc:But when someone's abusive, it's like paralysis.
Marc:It's like a deer.
Marc:It's like you just take it and- Yeah.
Guest:You become like a- A seizure of some kind.
Guest:It's like the light switch goes off.
Guest:Of course, I don't put myself in the situations of people like that anymore at all.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I can see them coming a mile a minute.
Guest:I can too, but sometimes I-
Guest:Right, you might lend a helping hand because you want.
Marc:They get in, they'll worm in.
Marc:If you've got those, if you're a mark, an emotional mark for that stuff, people know it instinctively and you've got to know when they're coming.
Marc:And sometimes you don't know and they're like, oh no, it's inside me.
Marc:I got to get it out.
Marc:It's a struggle.
Guest:It feels really mean to push them away.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Guest:But now I'm a mom, and that's taught me more than I thought I would be able to learn about all of those things we're talking about.
Marc:Are you able to, has that thing, when you decided to become a mom, you're like, I'm going to do this.
Guest:Well, when I found out, yeah.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So it was after you got pregnant.
Marc:You're like, okay, let's do it.
Marc:Now, has that relationship, how has that informed your whole trip?
Guest:i feel like i'm constantly learning like you know what's the best way to handle this yeah you know um what's the best way to handle this with discipline while making sure that you have a light heart you know you know the kid or you myself when i'm like okay right constituting you know uh the boundaries so don't freak out how you do it with love
Guest:Love's the easy part.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The love's the easy part.
Guest:The love is like the just, you know, he's a very tough dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he's like, you know, teddy bear, sweet, you know, mushy love.
Guest:Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:We're up on love.
Guest:It's all good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How old is he?
Guest:He's six.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But like, he, you know, acts like he's, you know, like 26.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:He says, you know, Mom, you know, I'm a man.
Guest:You know, I think I am a man.
Guest:Well, Bo, you know, you're six.
Guest:Well, you know, Mom, I'm going to be a man soon.
Guest:You know, look out.
Guest:I'm tall.
Guest:I'm the tallest person in my class.
Marc:You're going to have a man on your hands.
Guest:big time but it's great because like you know the universe they always say like the cliche like the universe sends you what you need uh-huh do you find that's true i find the universe sends me a lot of garbage i know but you can't look at it like that but there's the other thing it's like yeah you know yeah garbage garbage garbage but then it's like the garbage isn't the lesson it's it's it's it's what what you take from the lesson like you can choose to be
Guest:humble and grounded and you can choose to turn that shit around and no one will do that for you.
Guest:Doesn't matter how late you keep them up at night talking about whatever.
Guest:No one's going to turn around your bullshit or the bullshit that's happened to you or whatever.
Guest:accept yourself or whatever.
Guest:It's only, so the hard shit, it's not the lesson.
Guest:The lesson is what you teach yourself to do better.
Marc:How do you do it?
Marc:It's the action.
Guest:Yeah, that's the lesson.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:How do you choose these covers?
Marc:Because I notice that about all your covers, records, is like I know four songs and I feel like, am I not listening to anything?
Marc:I've got like 3,000 records.
Marc:I don't have any of these fucking songs.
Marc:Are you kidding?
Marc:Well, I know.
Marc:What's on this one?
Marc:uh well uh on tour i know some of the old ones obviously i know a lot of them the velvet underground i know the bobby darren record yeah i know one sea of love okay but what but i know i mean i know those ones but there's some esoteric ones not unlike many of the bands you're mentioning i don't know them but you know what's so what's on this one
Guest:Okay, so the first day, there's some that we were playing on tour, like Bad Religion by Frank Ocean, we were playing on tour.
Guest:Okay, yeah.
Guest:White Mustang, during that year when I was dropped for my label, my ex-label, Lana asked me to go on tour in Europe, so I wanted to sing a song for her and her fans, so White Mustang is on there.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So when we went to Rob's studio, Mant, with my friends who I play with who are on this record, it's the first time we've ever recorded together except Eric was on Jukebox.
Guest:So it's me, Adeline, Aliana, and Eric.
Guest:When I record, I like to, like, warm up at the station.
Guest:I like the piano part with the mics, you know, overhead and the guitar, a couple different amps, a couple different mics, drums, a couple different mics, overhead, you know, and the headphones, you got to get the headphones and the talkback mic, different stuff, and the vocal mic, a couple different mics.
Guest:I like it to all be humming and up and running.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so...
Guest:When it started to be up and running, so I asked Rob, can we go ahead and start tracking?
Guest:So I said, let's go.
Guest:Close the door.
Guest:So the first things we did on the first day were I started like talent composing was my composing thing of like, I'm not sure what I'm doing, but hey, all right, play this.
Guest:Try this like a double time at 16 bars.
Guest:Hey, Adeline, try this like, you know, just a couple, but like down and up.
Guest:not just down.
Guest:How about down, down, down, and then down, up.
Guest:And then, Aliana, can you try just the things?
Guest:And then, like, it's stomp, and then off, and, you know, that kind of composing.
Guest:And then I'd jump in the vocal booth and be like, fuck, I have no idea what I'm going to sing.
Guest:And this is the first four recordings we did.
Guest:The first one
Guest:The same method each time I jump out of a thing and they'd be like, you know, OK, you feel OK, Eric, why don't you try this?
Guest:You know, I don't want to try that.
Guest:I don't want to try this.
Guest:Jump back in the thing.
Guest:I have no fucking idea what I'm going to do.
Guest:So all of them, each of them, except.
Guest:you got the silver I was like hey let's just grab grab a guitar let's just yeah you know and that was the didn't know what we're gonna do and that was your silver the first one was Against the Wind the second one was I Had a Dream Joe never in my thousand years of life whatever would have I mean whatever Against the Wind the Bob Seger song?
Guest:Correct but I never thought I would ever do I Had a Dream Joe ever in a thousand years Whose song is that?
Guest:Nick Cave Bad Seeds and then the third one was Endless Sea
Marc:Iggy.
Marc:Oh, Iggy, yeah.
Marc:I saw your pillow.
Marc:Yeah, and here comes a regular... That was... That's a replacement.
Guest:I thought one day I would definitely do that.
Guest:Do you know Paul?
Guest:I met him once, yeah.
Marc:It's a good song.
Guest:It's a good song.
Guest:Isn't that a great song?
Guest:It's like every alcoholic's dream.
Marc:I mean, that song is fucking... Nightmare.
Marc:It's crazy, man.
Marc:Yeah, so I do know those songs.
Marc:These days, I know, too, right?
Guest:Yeah, we were doing that on tour, too.
Marc:So these all are worn grooves.
Marc:I mean, you knew the songs.
Guest:Not Against the Wind, not I Had a Dream, and not Endless Sea, and not You Got the Silver.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I know there's something else on there.
Marc:That's one of my favorite Stone songs, really.
Guest:Same.
Guest:I can't think of the other.
Guest:I think there's something else I didn't know.
Guest:But anyway.
Marc:It's exciting.
Guest:Yeah, I had to look at the, you know, lyrics on Google.
Guest:All first take.
Yeah.
Guest:And I had to edit the vocal when I'm saying, and it's good.
Guest:You guys are going to break down in three, two, one.
Guest:Against the wind.
Marc:Running in against the wind.
Marc:Well, it's nice talking to you.
Marc:You too.
Marc:You feel all right?
Marc:We'll tighten it up.
Guest:I do feel good.
Guest:I don't think I said anything bad about anybody.
Marc:Nope.
Guest:No, I don't think so.
Marc:Yeah, that's good.
Marc:I tried hard.
Marc:You tried to not say anything bad?
Guest:I tried hard not to.
Guest:I'm just kidding.
Guest:Very respectfully so.
Guest:I did not try hard.
Marc:I'm excited about the record.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I hope you like it.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Sean Marshall, a.k.a.
Marc:Cap Power.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:I'm happy we talked.
Marc:The new album cover is out January 14th.
Marc:North American tour dates for next year starting January 16th.
Marc:Go check out cappowermusic.com for all those things.
Marc:The dates.
Marc:Maybe I do have to start recording musicians again.
Marc:I don't know when that went away.
Marc:You know, where we used to have them play.
Marc:Maybe we can start doing that.
Marc:I mean, I play.
Marc:I'm going to play right now.
guitar solo
.
.
guitar solo
Yeah.
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and LaFonda.
Marc:Yeah, cat angels everywhere.
Yeah.