Episode 1286 - Jesse Plemons
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fuck birds?
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:Hanukkah is behind us.
Marc:I had to blow out the candles twice because I had to leave the house.
Marc:Does that mean it's going to be bad?
Marc:I lit them, though.
Marc:Sometimes I lit them without the yarmulke.
Marc:Sometimes I let him without my beanie, without my skull cap.
Marc:Does that mean, what does that mean?
Marc:Does it count?
Marc:Does it not count?
Marc:If I blew him out, does that mean it's going to be a bad year?
Marc:How superstitious do I need to be?
Marc:Are there numbers involved?
Marc:Should I be walking down the street with a picket sign that is the head of John F. Kennedy with a MAGA hat on and sunglasses with secret numbers on the back?
Marc:And then when I get on camera, I flip them around and show people the two secret numbers and look at them like, I know what I'm talking about, as opposed to, hey, I'm fucking crazy.
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:Listen to me.
Marc:The guy we have on the show today, Jesse Plemons, is one of these guys who I just am in awe of his acting.
Marc:And I never know what it's going to be like to chat with an actor that I'm in awe of.
Marc:He just has a naturalness to him.
Marc:And I just am sort of fascinated with the guy's acting.
Marc:Like, I mean, you know him.
Marc:You've seen him in movies and shows, whether it's Breaking Bad or Friday Night Lights or Fargo or Black Mass or the Irishman he was in, played Jimmy Hoffa's son.
Marc:Lots of stuff.
Marc:And now he's in The Power of the Dog, along with his wife, Kirsten Dunst, whose name I fucked up once.
Marc:But I just wanted to talk to the dude, so he's here.
Marc:And I'm trying to keep my fucking brain together.
Marc:I don't know why it's a day-to-day event.
Marc:I'm doing this a little early because I'm supposed to go to New Mexico to spend time with my father, but I don't know if that's going to happen because he's waiting to get a bed at the hospital to get this procedure done, but it seems like he's dealing with some sort of slapstick hospital.
Marc:I mean, it's just crazy what they're going through.
Marc:Maybe I don't understand what healthcare is in other states.
Marc:I'm fortunate.
Marc:to have a clinic that I go to through my union.
Marc:But Jesus, he's at the VA in Albuquerque.
Marc:And it's just like, it is like a shit show.
Marc:He was supposed to get this procedure.
Marc:And then they're like, where is he?
Marc:You know, they took him off the books.
Marc:He was supposed to go in.
Marc:They never called.
Marc:And then now they're, you know, they called him the other day.
Marc:Like, where is he?
Marc:And it's like, he's supposed to be here.
Marc:And my dad's wife was like, what are you talking about?
Marc:No one told me.
Marc:And the doctor didn't know.
Marc:It's just nuts.
Marc:Is that the way it is all over now?
Marc:And I wish there was something I can do.
Marc:I don't have any clout.
Marc:You know, I can't, you know, I don't own a hospital.
Marc:I'm not like a sports figure or a leader among men.
Marc:I can't just step in and go give my dad.
Marc:I guess I could.
Marc:But you still need a doctor and a place to do it, and they still got to get the guy in.
Marc:But it's annoying and sad.
Marc:So I don't even know if I'm going, but I'm recording this now.
Marc:And I'm just concerned, and it's just where it's at right now.
Marc:Where it's at.
Marc:I'll tell you, man.
Marc:Getting old doesn't seem great.
Marc:Does it?
Marc:I'm 58.
Marc:Doesn't seem great.
Marc:I'm not knocking it, but this procedure could make a difference in his brain.
Marc:So we're hanging some hope on that.
Marc:I added some dates to my this may be the last time tour.
Marc:I want to hip you to in San Francisco at the Palace of Fine Arts.
Marc:A late show has been added on January 29th.
Marc:Tickets are on sale now in San Diego at the Observatory North Park.
Marc:A late show has been added on February 11th.
Marc:Tickets go on sale tomorrow, December 10th at 10 a.m.
Marc:local time.
Marc:Tarrytown, New York.
Marc:I'll be at the Tarrytown Music Hall Thursday, April 14th.
Marc:The pre-sale is going on now until 10 p.m.
Marc:tonight, local time.
Marc:Use the passcode TIME.
Marc:General tickets on sale tomorrow, December 10th at 12 noon, local time.
Marc:That's in Tarrytown at the Tarrytown Music Hall.
Marc:And I'll be doing a run at the Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles as part of the massive Netflix is a joke festival.
Marc:Three dates, May 2nd, 3rd and 4th.
Marc:These are intimate shows, a couple hundred seats.
Marc:There's a presale going on today until 10 p.m.
Marc:local time.
Marc:Use the passcode jokes.
Marc:General tickets will be on sale tomorrow at 10 a.m.
Marc:local time.
Marc:It's Dynasty Typewriter Shows.
Marc:Very good place to see me.
Marc:For all of those dates, plus the ones I already announced, go to WTFPod.com and click on the tour page.
Marc:Look, you guys, I'm not falling apart, but man, I had an MRI yesterday.
Marc:Because of my ear.
Marc:I scheduled it a long time ago.
Marc:My ear seems to be getting a little better.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:My sinuses are fucked up.
Marc:So I guess that's what you do.
Marc:Is you get an MRI.
Marc:And I've had one of these before.
Marc:I've had this exact one.
Marc:This exact type of MRI for something different in the past.
Marc:But I remember talking about it because I remember doing an entire show.
Marc:on Marin about my MRI experience.
Marc:It was pretty funny.
Marc:And then today I remembered what the fuck it was.
Marc:I remembered why I did the bit because
Marc:After you get an MRI, there's the guy that gave you the MRI.
Marc:He'll give you a CD of it, and he saw what's on there, but they can't tell you what's on there.
Marc:So that's happening.
Marc:Waiting on that.
Marc:Good times.
Marc:And one of my tooths has gone bad.
Marc:A crown attached to a fucking root canal has gone south.
Marc:And now I may need an implant or just live with a gap.
Marc:Seems like a big undertaking.
Marc:Look like I got punched in the face.
Marc:Wow, man.
Marc:I am just... I am beat up.
Marc:And... I wouldn't mind going to New Mexico.
Marc:I guess we'll see what happens.
Marc:Everybody... Everything...
Marc:everything is okay okay don't panic I'm not panicking I just don't have a lot to say because I'm a little drained and I'm a little sick and I've decided to go do comedy tonight maybe I'll go to New Mexico I don't know I'll let you know what's happening though I'll be sure to let you know
Marc:I bought a magazine at a newsstand today.
Marc:It was like time travel.
Marc:I went back to the past and bought a magazine.
Marc:I bought The Atlantic.
Marc:And I looked at Rolling Stone.
Marc:Did you know they still publish penthouse magazines?
Marc:I mean, I didn't buy it, but they're still putting them out.
Marc:$10 for a fucking magazine.
Marc:It was worth the trip into the past, though.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:Will I read it?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I got a lot of reading to do.
Marc:I got a lot of music to listen to.
Marc:I've got an antique Sonos system that I've rigged up to the record player, so that's fun.
Marc:That's nice.
Marc:I never have to leave the house now.
Marc:Jesse Plemons is here, and The Power of the Dog, which he is in, is now playing in select theaters and streaming on Netflix.
Marc:I love this guy's acting.
Marc:Him and this other guy, Rory Cochran, who I also talked to.
Marc:Just very intense, quiet dudes doing the work, and I appreciate it.
Marc:I don't know where it comes from, and not many people can answer that.
Marc:Doesn't mean I won't poke around to try to find out some tricks.
Marc:Learn some tricks.
Marc:All right, this is me and Jesse talking.
Oh, my God.
Marc:Like, I saw that Jason Isbell was in that, what is it called?
Marc:Killers of the Flower Moon.
Marc:Killers of the Flower Moon.
Marc:Muscle White's in it?
Guest:Muscle White's in it, yeah.
Guest:He plays an old-timer.
Guest:He is an old-timer.
Guest:I know, so naturally, yeah.
Guest:So, like, where'd you shoot that thing?
Guest:That was all Oklahoma.
Guest:Have you been to Oklahoma?
Guest:Well, yeah, I grew up in Central Texas, so... So that's where you vacationed?
Guest:Exactly, yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:But I did date a girl from... Tulsa?
Guest:From Edmond, Oklahoma.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So this is how many times do you work with Scorsese?
Marc:Twice?
Marc:Twice, yeah.
Marc:And are you one of the main guys?
Marc:Who are the main guys?
Guest:I would say I come in about halfway through the film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's, yeah, DiCaprio and De Niro.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it's an incredible story.
Guest:Lily Gladstone plays a huge part in it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It's terrific.
Guest:Lily Gladstone.
Marc:Are you familiar with her?
Marc:No.
Marc:Should I be?
No.
Marc:You will be, yeah.
Marc:She's terrific.
Marc:I'm terrible with names.
Marc:I remember yours, but generally speaking, not great.
Guest:She's worked quite a bit, a lot of independent movies, but it's kind of her story.
Marc:It's her story?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, is this...
Marc:What style Western is it?
Marc:Is it someone goes and saves a town?
Marc:Is it the weird drifter from out of town?
Marc:What's the angle?
Marc:You don't have to spoil anything.
Guest:It's based on a true story.
Guest:And in a nutshell, in the 20s, there was the Osage tribe of Native Americans that were given a shitty deal like everyone else.
Guest:They were given mineral rights to to their land.
Guest:We come to find out brimming with oil and they become the wealthiest people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In the United States in the 20s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they start mysteriously dying one after the other.
Guest:And you come to find out that every white person in the area is in on it in one way or another and killing him.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Poisoning them?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:It's pretty horrific.
Guest:It sounds like an upbeat movie.
Guest:It's an upbeat movie.
Guest:But for a change, I'm not on that side of things.
Guest:I play an FBI agent, former Texas Ranger, that's trying to bring some justice.
Marc:Are you trying to capture FBI agents at different periods in history?
Marc:That's my goal, yeah.
Marc:To get as many.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:So this would be the 1920s FBI agent?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I saw you in the 1960s as kind of a dubious FBI agent.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was a good part, right?
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I thought you were good in that.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm a big fan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a sort of run the gamut of like sort of terrible, terrible white guys, you know?
Yeah.
Marc:Well, you got that look.
Guest:I do.
Marc:It's the red hair.
Marc:No, I don't know what it is, but it's sort of like, yeah, there's something a little off about this particularly, you know, sort of sweet looking white guy.
Marc:Classic.
Guest:It's the no eyebrows, too.
Guest:I don't have any eyebrows, so people can't really tell what...
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:But with a little tweak, you could be the good guy, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you could be.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:After Breaking Bad, it was like, you know, that was one of the most disturbing kind of conscience list characters ever.
Marc:At least the other ones seem to be morally bankrupt just because of cynicism or too long on the job or, you know, some agenda.
Marc:That guy was Breaking Bad guy.
Guest:That was just him.
Guest:That was just in his heart.
Marc:So before we get into, like, I have specific questions because I talked to a Cumberbatch.
Marc:That's what he said, yeah.
Marc:Oh, he said that?
Guest:Yeah, he said it was great.
Marc:Oh, he did?
Marc:Because I argued with him about his character.
Marc:I pushed back.
Marc:Oh, I'm excited to hear that.
Marc:Well, I mean, it was really just an issue of, you know, he thought that his guy was on the precipice of change.
Marc:And I was like, no.
Guest:I think there's a whole thing of trying not to judge the person you're playing.
Guest:So, yeah, I get that.
Guest:Whatever works, you know.
Marc:No, no, I get that.
Marc:But the question I would have for you, because I said your character, the brother, this isn't, I guess we should set it up.
Marc:It's the power of the dog, right?
Marc:I don't know what that title means.
Guest:Oh, I know.
Guest:It's a mountain, right?
Guest:That's one of the connections.
Guest:Take it from a scripture, which is also pretty ambiguous.
Guest:Oh, it's a scripture?
Guest:Did you read it in prep?
Guest:I mean, I read the piece and tried to make sense of it, and it was still pretty hard to decipher.
Guest:What testament?
Guest:What book?
Guest:Come on, Mark.
Guest:I don't remember.
Guest:I'll pull it up for you and show it to you.
Marc:Now I need to know.
Marc:The scripture, power of the dog.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Oh, here we go.
Marc:Deliver me from the sword, my precious life, from the power of the dogs.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Deliver my soul from the sword, my precious life, from the power of the dog.
Marc:So what do you get from that?
Marc:Well, I don't think it's a good thing.
Marc:I think the dog, maybe the dogs of hell, the hounds of hell, the dog, the primal nature of man, the sort of the thing that eats and bankrupts the soul.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Is that Phil Cumberbatch's character or is that-
Guest:I think it's everybody.
Guest:He needs deliverance.
Guest:That's some real poetry, that movie.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Well, and Jane, I mean, she speaks in that sort of- Jane Campion.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I don't need to spoil anything.
Marc:But I'm trying to frame it because I had the conversation with Cumberbatch and he didn't seem to think-
Guest:that your character would necessarily know about what went on with him and bronco billy or whatever bronco henry yeah how did you plan i i how'd you think one they spent almost every every minute of every day together since they were kids so there's no hiding him and bronchi or you you and you yeah right exactly
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And I think rather than get bitter and I know the real you.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:He manages to, at least the way I looked at him, he manages to sort of have compassion.
Guest:And and and operates from a place of I know the real you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Chooses not to take the bait, you know.
Marc:Well, yeah, it's a fine line between sort of like looking out for himself and being a codependent, you know, sort of a mat person.
Marc:Just like a doormat guy.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:Which which when I first read the book.
Guest:It took me a little while to realize that 90% of what you're hearing about George is through Phil's perspective.
Guest:And so my first instinct was like, is this the guy that I want to... What else is there?
Guest:Or is it just sort of an oaf that's... Takes it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I don't know what to do with that.
Guest:But then...
Guest:Once that dawned on me that it was all Phil's thoughts or coming out of his mouth, it changed my perspective.
Guest:Jane said something early on that she looked at George as having a sort of quiet strength and dignity and referenced Duvall in The Godfather.
Guest:Duvall's one of my favorite actors.
Guest:And then it sort of changed...
Guest:my perspective there's also a segment in the book where where he's talking to rose and um george is talking to rose yeah he mentions he's reminiscing about them all going to the beach and he mentions dreaming and he shows more more depth than he does anywhere else in the book and so i just decided that you know there are a lot of people that that
Guest:you think are easy to peg and sort of sum up easily.
Guest:And there's an entire world happening beneath the surface.
Guest:With everybody.
Guest:With everyone, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it's crazy.
Guest:So yeah, that I find really interesting, you know.
Guest:saying one thing and and something else entirely well it was such a grounded court of sort of like guarded guy performance that you know you had to protect something and and i think speaking from from experience there are certain points in your life where
Guest:You're not operating from a place where you're even aware of what you're doing.
Guest:You're just being pulled, you know?
Guest:This morning.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:So that to me was, you know, it seemed like there was probably something changing in their relationship, something kind of souring even before.
Marc:So from your own experience, you know that from yourself.
Yeah.
Marc:So, like, so reaching into your own experience, even counterintuitively, you know, what would it feel like to stop that and make choices?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like, because, like, when I think about my past, I was just, you're just going for it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, but at some point, you got to say, like, no.
Marc:Is that getting older?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, no, no.
Marc:I think it's like you can only take so much.
Marc:And then one day you do something that you used to do and you realize like, fuck, I don't have the energy.
Marc:I don't want to.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:It becomes like this prosthetic limb.
Marc:And then it's like not there anymore.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:You'll need it.
Marc:It's not real.
Marc:Anyway, I love the movie.
Marc:You were stuck down there in New Zealand with everybody?
Guest:We were, yeah.
Guest:We had all but about three weeks of work left, and the state of New Zealand was not nearly as bad as the U.S., but it's still gotten there, and it seemed pretty obvious that we weren't going to be able to finish.
Guest:We shut down and we were there with our two-year-old and we felt like there's no way we can get on a plane right now.
Guest:The kid who touches everything, puts his hand in his mouth.
Guest:And so we stayed there for about a month and then flew back home when it felt safer to fly.
Guest:And then in the matter of about two months, New Zealand had eliminated the virus and...
Guest:They they let us back in the country quarantine quarantine for the for the two weeks and I guess this is one of those things where you kind of We're grateful that you were with your wife and came my god.
Guest:Yes Could you imagine if you weren't I mean there there are so many You know experiences like that.
Guest:Yeah, it was how many times have you acted with her just just the two when you met her Fargo and then and then now Yeah, power of the dog
Marc:And how is it?
Guest:It's easy.
Guest:It's so easy.
Guest:Because she's great, man.
Guest:She's great in the movie.
Guest:I think that's what it is.
Guest:Acting with really talented people, if you can get past...
Guest:you know, whatever, whatever you bring to the, you bring to that, you preconceived, you know, emotions or whatever.
Guest:It's so much easier, you know, with someone who's really good, all you have to do is look and listen and, you know.
Marc:You're both so fucking good, right?
Marc:So, but, so there's like, you know, I, oh, you're married, you got a kid and everything.
Marc:But I imagine, I don't think people fully understand.
Marc:I'm not sure I do until, you know, I've done it.
Marc:That, you know, that space where actors hold, you know, you're not really thinking about any of that.
Marc:Like, this is my life.
Marc:This is my wife.
Marc:I wonder where the kid is.
Marc:Like, you know, it's like when you're in it, you're in it.
Guest:Yes, completely.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I mean, the other thing, too, I don't know.
Guest:how you would feel about this because of your history with stand-up comedy.
Guest:And to me, that seems like how would acting ever be at all scary after putting yourself through that.
Guest:But I'm saying when you're working with someone that you know so well, the added...
Guest:Benefit is just that level of trust.
Guest:And that was something, for whatever reason, very quickly whenever we met, we were able to, without any ego, throw out an idea.
Guest:If the other one liked it, great.
Guest:If not, onto the next sort of idea.
Guest:Like on Fargo?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, oh.
Guest:And, you know, we just, for whatever reason, really speak the same language and don't need to over-talk things to have fun.
Guest:This was some raw shit for her, though.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:I mean... I know.
Guest:But that's a challenge, is to see that and that sort of... Holds your... React as George rather than, you know, her partner who just wants so desperately to...
Guest:Well, how codependent are you in real life?
Guest:Come on.
Guest:So how cold are you in real life?
Guest:How cold?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not cold.
Guest:Well, I'm not codependent.
Marc:But I'm saying it's... No, I mean, I get it.
Marc:I mean, it must have, I think, added a type of depth to that guy that you didn't even know.
Marc:Because for you to have to shut down yourself when she's in that much...
Marc:uh, you know, sort of inexplainable pain.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And in, you know, in the grips of like a compulsive, you know, disease.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Uh, which, which I, you know, I think she's publicly, you know, stated that she's dealt with personally.
Marc:So she had to draw from that stuff, which has got to be a fucking bit of a nightmare.
Marc:I had to do blow and glow, but I didn't care.
Marc:I mean, it didn't like, you know, it was kind of, I, uh, fortunately I, when I had to do that shit, I was like,
Marc:I could never do this again.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People are like, didn't it trigger you?
Guest:I'm like, no.
Guest:It's disgusting.
Guest:Speaking of Charlie Musselwhite, in our scene, he's supposed to be a little... He's supposed to have a drink, and he hadn't drank in I don't know how long.
Guest:And he was just having so much fun pretending.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:He just gave him a little...
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know.
Marc:Little juice.
Guest:Brought him back.
Marc:Brought him back.
Marc:He was really having a ball.
Marc:But so I assume that, you know, you're stifling your real reactions added something, like, amazing.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:And I don't think George was someone who was unaware.
Guest:No.
Guest:So it didn't require, like, shutting down those feelings.
Guest:But there's a difference.
Guest:There's a difference in our physicality and there's a difference in the way I process, you know, what I'm seeing with her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, respond.
Guest:So you grew up in Texas?
Guest:I did, yeah.
Guest:Central Texas in a tiny little town outside of Waco.
Guest:How many people in your school?
Guest:About, I mean, there was like 40 or so in my class.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All your life.
Guest:Pretty much.
Guest:But I started acting pretty young and started coming out to L.A., so I would spend half the time in this tiny town and then half the time in L.A.
Guest:doing the whole pilot season.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Who came out here with you?
Guest:Your mom?
Guest:With my mom, occasionally my dad, who, I mean, God bless him.
Guest:He's used to space and he's got his things that he loves, his horses, his routine and hobbies.
Guest:And like L.A., he can do it for a little while, but just starts getting a little antsy, you know?
Marc:So you grew up with horses?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:What's your dad do?
Guest:He was a fireman for 33, 35 years.
Guest:But then, you know, he's a team roper for a hobby.
Guest:Rodeo guy.
Guest:Rodeo guy, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah, his side of the family, they all ride.
Guest:And I've got, like, bronc rider, cousin.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Still at it?
Guest:Still at it, yeah.
Guest:How old is he?
Guest:He's probably 1920 now, but he's a young kid.
Marc:He can do it.
Marc:The guy I have, my contractor who does work at my house, he was a pro Bronco rider.
Marc:He's out, man.
Marc:He's out.
Marc:Yeah, that's not the...
Marc:Career choice for... He got beat up.
Marc:He wanted to be an actor now.
Marc:Now he used to dip, you know?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And now he's on this sort of mint dip with no juice to it, no nicotine to it.
Marc:But he fucking fills up that cheek with it.
Marc:And it comes in a little can, but it's got no kick.
Marc:I get it.
Guest:To stop smoking, I basically smoked tea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah, and it kind of helped.
Guest:Did you dip when you were a kid?
Guest:No, my dad did, though.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:He off it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he talks about getting fed up and throwing the can out the window and he's driving and then stopping.
Guest:Throwing the cope out.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Was he a Copenhagen guy?
Marc:I think so.
Marc:Hardcore?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I love that shit, man.
Marc:I can't hold it together in my mouth, but the packets, I used to love it.
Marc:I like nicotine any way, any way.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Any way.
Marc:It's amazing.
Marc:I've been over two years off all of it.
Marc:Off all of it.
Marc:Yeah, because I was doing those nicotine lozenges, like the candies.
Marc:Oh, fucking great.
Marc:I know.
Guest:You're making me want to say.
Marc:I know.
Marc:How long you been out?
Marc:How long you been free of the monkey?
Guest:A couple of years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:A couple of years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I quit for a little while.
Guest:Our first son was born.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Work just becomes so linked with the business of smoking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, a couple of years.
Marc:So you're a kid.
Marc:How does that start?
Marc:I mean, it's pretty nice of your folks to, you know, your cowboy dad to support you.
Marc:I mean, how old were you?
Marc:Was it because you were bringing in the bread or they just wanted you to do what you wanted to do?
Guest:You know, I don't know how I got so lucky.
Guest:They were, for whatever reason, just extremely supportive.
Guest:And it was something that, obviously, when I first started out, I did a commercial when I was like two and a half that my mom took me to.
Guest:It was just an open call.
Guest:And then for fun family outings, we would all go be extras.
Yeah.
Guest:whatever we're shooting in Texas, and I just really took to it and really was drawn to it, and they just kind of presented it almost as any other extracurricular activity.
Guest:It's there if you keep your grades up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it wasn't anything that was forced upon me, which I saw plenty of on my trips.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:To L.A., staying at the Oakwood and all that jazz.
Marc:The Oakwood.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Saw a lot of kids being kind of just driven by that parent.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, and sort of even supporting them financially, having that weight.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I remember a kid that Razor Scooters were really big at the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He had a backpack full of headshots and resumes just on him at all time, I guess, in case you need to whip one out.
Marc:It's so sad when Hollywood creeps in at that age where you're kind of... But you didn't feel that?
Marc:I mean, what was your first big gig before?
Guest:My first big gig, well, I mean, the first time I really knew it was something that I could do for a living or even thought about it like that was probably Friday Night Lights when I was 18.
Guest:But before then, I had a lot of really great experiences.
Guest:I worked with Billy Bob Thornton on this movie, All the Pretty Horses, and he was so great to me and
Marc:Solid guy.
Marc:Interesting guy.
Marc:Interesting.
Marc:Weird dude, but a good dude.
Guest:But it's funny.
Guest:I mean, my perspective as a kid, I saw none of that.
Guest:No.
Marc:Yeah, he was great, but... Tell me about Walker, Texas Ranger.
Guest:Oh, you got the IMDb pulled up, huh?
Marc:Well, I got the... I use Wikipedia, but I just want to know, what was it like working with Chuck Norris?
Guest:I did... I probably met him very briefly...
Guest:I think I had a couple of lines.
Guest:I never do that, by the way.
Marc:I never do that, by the way.
Marc:I never ask that kind of question, but he's such a weirdo, too.
Guest:Have you met him?
Guest:No?
Marc:He was just always there my entire life.
Marc:Chuck Norris was doing something.
Guest:I don't really remember.
Guest:I just remember...
Guest:I had to, again, talking about my appearance, I was always the bully, and so I had to beat some kid up, and then I think I watched it, and someone had dubbed lines over what I was doing, so I was like, that's not me.
Marc:It's so funny because...
Marc:You know, when I was talking to my producer, he assumed like you were just some sort of football guy.
Marc:You know, I guess you do look like that.
Marc:So that's how you kind of got cast, huh?
Marc:Even when you were a kid?
Marc:Just a meathead football guy.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:But when, like, so even with all the pretty horses, so how old were you then?
Guest:I was probably 12 or so.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So where are you, the reason I like Wikipedia is because I see the directors you worked with.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So where, I mean, because, you know, you have a way of acting, and I love that dude, Scott Cooper.
Marc:I love Scott Cooper.
Marc:Me too.
Marc:Like, I love those movies.
Marc:Black Mass.
Marc:But anyway, when do you start to kind of hone any sort of craft around acting?
Marc:I mean, did you learn how to act at some point?
Guest:Did somebody teach you?
Guest:I think when I was younger, I immediately had this... I was drawn to whatever...
Guest:It meant to really be good at it.
Guest:I was on the set of Varsity Blues for a couple of months, and I remember watching Jon Voight, and there was something in the...
Guest:I mean, I don't even know what I thought then, but I was just really fascinated by people that were really devoted and serious about it.
Guest:Doing the work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I took classes with them.
Guest:My manager at the time, who was also a teacher, so I was in class quite a bit.
Guest:When you were a kid.
Guest:My teenage years, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And even before then, after that, a handful of different teachers and classes and...
Guest:Do they make a difference?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I think the main thing is having a space that is purely for experimenting and playing around where there's not a camera in your face.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's what's sort of enticing about trying theater, which I've done very little of.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Just having a time purely devoted to sort of expanding.
Marc:You can't... There's no takes during theater.
Guest:No, exactly.
Marc:You got to lock right in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you haven't done much?
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:When I was 16, I did a play, a walking play at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A walking play?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:Oh, that's a writer.
Guest:No, you walk around the town.
Guest:You walk around Edinburgh and there's an audience that follows you around.
Guest:That's terrible.
Guest:It was.
Guest:No, it was fun.
Guest:I was 16 and I was- In Scotland.
Guest:It was my first time really having some independence and I looked like I could be 18.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I could get into some bars and I was away from the parents.
Marc:Oh, good times.
Marc:So it's a much different experience.
Marc:Much different, yeah.
Marc:I was sober and heartbroken.
Guest:I was like, ah, Scotland.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was like, oh, fuck, Scotland.
Yeah.
Marc:So, okay, so that was the only theater?
Guest:Like one act play in high school maybe.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:Yeah, that was it.
Guest:Are they trying to get you something?
Guest:I don't know if they- What would you like to do?
Marc:Do you have theater you like?
Guest:I mean, it's cliche to say Sam Shepard, but I haven't read a lot of Sam Shepard.
Guest:Oh, you'd be good in that.
Marc:That's the way to go.
Marc:That's the way to go.
Marc:Fool for Love or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you take any classes, acting classes, when you decided to start?
Marc:No, not when I started to start.
Guest:Before.
Marc:You know, man, it was like, for me...
Marc:I always wanted to do it, but I knew like once I got into the standup bracket, I was just this angry guy that was trying to figure out who I was on stage.
Marc:And that's what I did.
Marc:And then a lot of people thought they knew what I was doing.
Marc:And he's a cranky guy, never had control of nothing.
Marc:And at the time, I don't even think I had a real agent for decades.
Marc:I think my manager was just asking certain agents to do him a favor and try to send me out on something.
Marc:And I got a little part in Elmo's Famous for like 30 seconds.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:The angry promoter guy.
Marc:But I kind of gave up on it.
Marc:I'd go to these auditions for TV, and I'm like, I'm not the guy.
Marc:There's a million guys who can do this better than me.
Marc:So I kind of gave up on it.
Marc:But when I was younger,
Marc:You know, before I really got into a professional, I was already a comic, but I took classes with someone and I took some in college and I also took some up in San Francisco and I took some in New York here and there.
Marc:But I don't know if I was in the space to apply anything that I learned.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I told you this the few times we've ran into each other, but I think you're great.
Guest:I'm always excited to see you pop up.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Guest:Thanks, buddy.
Guest:I appreciate it.
Guest:Seriously, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can be present.
Guest:Yeah, which is...
Guest:So much more than half the way there, I think.
Guest:I really do.
Guest:I just did a movie with a Texas accent.
Marc:Did you?
Marc:Yeah, it's not out yet.
Marc:You might know this guy, Michael Morris, the British director.
Marc:He does a lot of Better Call Saul.
Marc:Yes, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it's his first feature.
Guest:Wow, yeah, he was awesome.
Marc:Yeah, he just wouldn't leave me alone.
Marc:He wanted me to do it.
Marc:And I'm like, why me?
Marc:I'm not, like, an accent?
Marc:What is that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I realized in the middle of peak COVID, you know, and it was like I had somehow been convinced that being on a film set was safer than going to Ralph's.
Marc:And being constantly tested.
Guest:At a certain point, there were more testing than nurses were, you know.
Marc:It was fine.
Marc:And I was, like, broken up with grief because of the passing of my girlfriend.
Marc:And it was just, like, the time to do it.
Marc:You know, like, I was like, fuck it.
Marc:If I'm going to take chances...
Marc:I got on with the dialogue coach.
Marc:It was so funny because it needed to be like she decided a Lubbock accent, specifically Lubbock.
Marc:And I'm like, it's the easier one, really.
Marc:Because a lot of Texans don't really have much of one.
Marc:You don't have much of one.
Marc:I kind of had to get rid of it.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, but that's not that interesting.
Guest:But yeah.
Guest:So it stayed away, though?
Guest:I mean, I'll slip back into it if I talk to my dad on the phone or, you know, I get tired.
Marc:When you get tired?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's like there's some weird vigilance in your brain that kind of, once it gets tired, you start going.
Marc:Well, it was so funny because she wants me to do this.
Marc:And the point of reference was Mac Davis interviews.
Marc:oh yeah yeah so like she's giving me all these mac davis interviews i'm like that to work it out you know and uh and i i did all right with it i watched a cut of it i was okay there's still i don't know if i can watch myself there's still some problem i'm having with creating i think you know truly defined characters and i don't know if that's just me you know jumping into my body watching me going like oh would you you should have waited a beat you know what do you you know
Guest:It's so hard.
Guest:I really struggle having an objective view of myself.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:It takes time for me to watch something, and then, you know, like a couple of years.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, like, I hadn't seen a lot of Fargo, and Kirsten and I, maybe the last year, she said, let's watch it, and you're going to watch some of this, and...
Guest:After all that time, I was able to look at it and recognize that there was something special there.
Marc:Did you win an Emmy for that?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:That's fucked up.
Marc:Fucked up awards.
Marc:No.
Marc:It's not really, but we all show up in our suits, don't we?
Guest:That's the part that gets you.
Guest:And then for women, it's not just showing up in the suits.
Guest:It's the whole thing, man.
Guest:It's hours of hair and makeup, fittings before that with the dress.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like Kirsten says, they make you care more than you do.
Marc:It's just the worst when you realize...
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't want to get into it.
Marc:It's not like some meritocracy.
Marc:There's no one judging.
Marc:You don't cross a finish line.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:It's like it's random people that are making decisions for whatever personal reasons or they're cajoled into it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But whatever.
Marc:So many teachers, you had many teachers, but like I imagine like the experience of seeing John Voight when you were however old, focus like that, because I found that to be the case and in the little bit of films that I've done, like I had to do a very brief scene with De Niro and the Joker.
Marc:It was like the second, but Duvall.
Marc:You say you like Duvall, and you haven't worked with him, have you?
Guest:No, I haven't, no.
Guest:Have you met him?
Guest:I met him briefly through Scott Cooper, who's known... He was in the Jeff Bridges movie, Crazy Heart.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I think he's been in a few of Scott's movies.
Guest:But no, I grew up watching him on Lonesome Dove.
Guest:Did you ever see that film?
Guest:That was... The miniseries, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was really kind of my main callback bar as to the type of acting that... Really?
Guest:I love.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Him and Tommy Lee Jones and Chris Cooper and that Diane Lane.
Guest:She's great, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, she's always great.
Marc:Yeah, always.
Marc:So that was it.
Guest:That was a big one, too.
Marc:It's so interesting because most people would think,
Marc:the hell was that most people is that me i'm a fucking idiot so you know most people would go with the godfather they go with uh i watched i just watched tender mercies again it was oh yeah holy shit that performance kind of reminds me of you a little bit so like what is it about him because like i love him too but like is is there something about the the natural yeah you don't see him acting and it's not that he's that he like
Guest:It's not that he is even small in what he's doing.
Guest:It's just all so grounded and authentic.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's the exciting thing.
Guest:And, you know, that's what I think, at least personally, excites me and draws me into a story.
Guest:And, you know, that sort of thing.
Guest:Thing that happens between... That smile of his, man.
Guest:That laugh.
Marc:Yeah, that too.
Marc:Did you ever watch The Killer Elite?
Marc:The Killer Elite?
Marc:No.
Marc:The Peckinpah movie.
Marc:Him and James Caan.
Marc:Go watch it, dude.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:It's rough.
Marc:It's rough.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But watch it.
Marc:The Killer Elite.
Marc:Yeah, The Killer Elite.
Marc:It's like a later Peckinpah movie.
Marc:70s.
Guest:James Caan's another one.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:He's so good, dude.
Marc:I know.
Marc:He was the reason why I did the Texas accent.
Marc:Because the funny thing is about movie stars, right?
Marc:And he was a big one.
Marc:I interviewed him.
Marc:He's ball buster.
Marc:He's something, man.
Marc:Yeah, he's something.
Marc:But I've watched Thief three times since I've talked to that guy to watch him act.
Marc:But he was a big movie star, right?
Marc:And I went back and watched real old shit.
Marc:Francis Ford Coppola did a very early film called The Rain People.
Marc:I was about to bring that up.
Marc:The Rain People.
Marc:And and that's a young James Caan, not a movie star actor coming out of New York Meisner thing, you know, doing whatever that that trip is, I think.
Marc:And he's doing the accent, but he's not holding it.
Marc:And you start to realize, like, who the fuck holds it?
Marc:And it's like if they're paying attention to that, you're fucked up.
Marc:And also, I think the other lesson is try to avoid a Boston accent if you can.
Guest:Yeah, which I took that advice.
Guest:You did?
Marc:No, I'm saying I did.
Marc:But you did it all right.
Marc:What was it, in Black Mass?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Fucking love that.
Marc:I love you, man.
Marc:No, you were great.
Marc:You did good with it, but sometimes it gets a little much.
Marc:It's a scary one to do because it's easy to make a mockery of it.
Guest:It is.
Marc:But you did a subtle, and that guy Rory?
Guest:Rory Cochran.
Guest:Holy fuck.
Guest:What's that?
Guest:I know, man.
Marc:You too, man.
Marc:You too.
Marc:You should do a Sam Shepard play.
Guest:You and Rory.
Guest:You're totally right.
Guest:The only problem is Rory doesn't like dialogue.
Guest:He doesn't want to say anything.
Guest:He just wants to kind of smoke and like brood and convey it all non-verbally.
Marc:No shit.
Marc:I'm supposed to interview him.
Marc:That sounds like it's going to be a problem.
Guest:No.
Guest:In real life, he's fine.
Guest:You can talk to him, but he just doesn't.
Guest:He sees a paragraph and he's like, oh, shit.
Marc:So, I love that guy.
Marc:I thought that you two, in that movie, in terms of naturalness, you and Rory were like fucking, that was like a master class.
Guest:Thank you, man.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Yeah, he's, I want him to work with some incredible directors because he's, aside from Scott, because I just think he's
Guest:He's one of my favorites, and he's extremely versatile, too.
Marc:Yeah, I never noticed him before that for some reason.
Marc:He's been around a long time, as long as you have.
Marc:He's dazed and confused, I think.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So when you talk about this naturalness, what do you do in your mind?
Marc:This is just me, an amateur actor, asking you.
Marc:What are the things that you put in your mind to make sure you end up there?
Guest:I mean, it varies, but...
Guest:A lot of times the focus isn't necessarily on the lines.
Guest:It's on everything else, what's happening in the scene.
Guest:Not to get too into actor speak because I start to annoy and bore myself.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, yeah, it's everything that's happening underneath the scene.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Underneath the dialogue, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then occasionally you work with people that are cool with you sort of tweaking it and improvising a little bit.
Guest:And that always, even if it doesn't make it in...
Guest:It just sort of encourages the sort of unconscious sort of spontaneity and gets it flowing and prevents it from becoming stilted.
Guest:I'm constantly sort of looking for a new take, a new way into a scene so I don't get bored with it.
Marc:Do you feel like your big breakthrough in terms of honing shit was at Friday Night Lights?
Guest:I think that was probably the best class I ever took.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because we were given so much freedom and ownership, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Peter Berg told us.
Guest:I know Berg.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was basically like, I'm not going to be here.
Guest:These are your characters.
Guest:It's on you if they suck, kind of.
Guest:And if you don't like what's written, change it.
Yeah.
Guest:And it was just really the most exciting and liberating experience where it really dawned on me that I might be able to do it for a living.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:I was 18 when the show started, yeah.
Marc:So that was it, man.
Marc:That was the training ground.
Marc:And who was that guy who played the coach?
Marc:Kyle Chandler.
Marc:So good.
Guest:He's a great guy, too.
Marc:Good actor.
Marc:Like, man, like in that Manchester by the Sea.
Marc:I know.
Marc:What the fuck?
Guest:I know.
Guest:Yeah, he's incredible.
Marc:Like, that was left field.
Marc:Like, you kind of believe him so much as that coach guy.
Marc:And then, like, he does a performance.
Marc:Like, that Manchester by the Sea, you're like, there's so many of these dudes that get locked into these things.
Marc:And then, obviously, you see him in something else.
Marc:You're like, oh, my God.
Guest:Right.
Marc:He can really do this.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Yeah, he's incredible.
Marc:And I guess that sort of like kind of launched you into the better movies, right?
Guest:Friday Night Lights.
Guest:Yeah, I think that and then Breaking Bad was something that seemed very different from that, which I think allowed people to sort of...
Guest:There was a while there, you know.
Guest:It's like the majority of people in the industry, they see the last thing that you've done, and then you get a handful of offers in that realm.
Guest:And so Breaking Bad was good in that it sort of felt like it killed off the character from Friday Night Lights a little bit, you know.
Marc:Welcome to Sociopath.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, there you go.
Marc:And when you shoot that kid on the bike, it's all over, dude.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But...
Marc:And you just play that straight, right?
Marc:When you're in that moment, you're just like, that's what that guy does.
Marc:Were you able to have empathy for that guy, that character?
Guest:In the time, I wasn't, I was very specific in sort of what I was thinking about.
Guest:In that moment, Vince Gilligan was on set, and I still knew nothing about the character.
Guest:The writers weren't telling me anything because I was a recurring character, not a regular.
Guest:And Vince, I went up to him, I was like, you have to give me something.
Guest:I have no idea who this guy is.
Guest:how he can just so casually, you know, shoot this kid.
Guest:And in a very matter-of-fact way, he said, you know, when you're driving and a raccoon runs out in front of your car and if you swerve this way, you run into the ditch.
Guest:If you swerve that way, you run into an oncoming car.
Guest:He's like, what do you do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so that's what I did.
Guest:And sometimes it is that simple and, you know, no one knows what you're thinking.
Guest:So...
Marc:Brilliant bit of direction.
Guest:It really was, yeah.
Marc:So how often do you feel that, though?
Marc:Because you work with these monster directors.
Marc:And I've talked to some directors, and a lot of times, which was surprising to me, they don't really want to be teachers.
Marc:So they hire you to do a job.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:So they know what they're getting with you.
Marc:But I would say as somebody who does, you know, these character bits, you know, as a character actor and to a certain degree, I mean, they know you, they know what you're capable of.
Marc:But I imagine there's a lot of times where you need input around, you know, character, especially ones that, you know, maybe only have a few scenes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:And it's something I've become more and more aware of.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The more...
Guest:incredible opportunities to get is that I think it's easier when you're there longer on a set when you have more to do it's easier to sort of get a grip on who the character is to develop a rhythm the tough thing is when you're just jumping in you have one day and then two weeks off and you come in again or these scenes where you're like opening a door and you throw a line this way like that sort of shit really
Guest:can easily throw you.
Marc:And it's also hard to find continuity.
Marc:I'm terrible at that.
Marc:Like, you know, sort of like, what just happened before we did this?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What did I do right before this?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm terrible at scripts.
Marc:I can't figure them out.
Marc:I need to be told.
Marc:Am I tired?
Marc:Is this morning?
Marc:Right.
Marc:I know.
Marc:So what do you do?
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:In terms of those are difficult, those one-line things, two-week things.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm still figuring that out, I feel like.
Guest:On the Scorsese thing, it was sort of maddening how the larger bits were so much easier.
Marc:Which one?
Guest:The new one?
Guest:The Western?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, yeah, just found myself obsessing, you know, because you put so much weight on it.
Marc:How hands-on is he with the actor?
Guest:There wasn't anything that I pitched that he didn't say, yeah, you know, go for it.
Guest:And I think he's constantly looking for...
Guest:Something new and exciting and something to sort of deepen the story and the characters.
Guest:So he's somehow hands-on, but at the same time, you know, he only really tells you something if something's really not working.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or if he likes something from a previous take, you know, keep on with that line.
Marc:And with The Irishman, you're in the car with Pacino...
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Driving them all.
Guest:Driving Pacino and De Niro.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Those are the things when you read the script, you don't think about actually being in a driver's seat.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Being in charge of two legends lives.
Guest:But he's...
Guest:Have you ever met Pacino?
Guest:No.
Guest:My God, he's just the sweetest man, and getting glimpses into his, like, the way his sort of stream of consciousness mind works when he's... There was a scene where he's giving a speech in The Irishman.
Guest:And they had waited to do our coverage to the very end.
Guest:And he was giving just a ramp into the scene.
Guest:He would tell the punchline to like a joke that doesn't exist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was just like a tiny little peek into his mind.
Guest:And it was the most fascinating, surreal scene.
Marc:So it brought him into, that triggered an engagement with the crowd.
Guest:Exactly, yeah.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Everyone laughs.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Guest:But then it was so surreal that we were laughing way too hard.
Marc:I just saw him in the Gucci, in the Gucci movie.
Marc:So good, dude.
Marc:So sweet.
Marc:What a sweet performance.
Marc:Everybody fucking does that.
Guest:I'm excited to see that.
Guest:Have you seen Licorice Pizza yet?
Marc:No.
Guest:I can't wait to see that.
Guest:Are you in it?
Guest:No.
Guest:Just excited to see it.
Marc:I'm supposed to go.
Marc:I think I'm going tomorrow.
Marc:I think I can go tomorrow if I can get there.
Marc:I think I'm on.
Marc:Yeah, maybe I'll go for a screener.
Marc:Well, that's another guy, Paul Thomas Anderson.
Marc:I talked to that guy.
Marc:He's like, you know, I found him.
Marc:It was very disarming.
Marc:I thought I was going to meet a dark wizard, and he's just this goofball from the valley.
Totally.
Guest:I know, which this movie kind of seems, just from the trailer, seems to kind of capture that.
Marc:He might have like, this one might have worked for something lighthearted.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like the Inherent Vice thing, I had a hard time with.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Everyone did, but I loved it so much.
Guest:Why?
Guest:I love the characters.
Guest:I love the music.
Guest:And where everyone said there's no plot or it's too confusing, whatever.
Guest:No, there is a clear plot.
Guest:It's just you have to pay attention.
Guest:It requires a few viewings, maybe.
Marc:I liked all of it, but it was supposed to be a comedy.
Marc:And it felt to me like some of the comedy just fell a little flat.
Marc:But in terms of the story and everything, I thought it was all good.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Joaquin Phoenix as a stoner, detective, Benicio Del Toro popping up.
Marc:But you're talking to a guy who's not here nor there on the Big Lebowski.
Marc:Okay, yeah.
Marc:I got you, yeah.
Marc:There are people that are like, that's the best Coen.
Marc:I'm like, no, it's not.
Marc:It's not.
Marc:Not that good.
Guest:What's your favorite Coen Brothers movie?
Marc:Man, I like the Hollywood movies.
Marc:I fucking loved Hell, Caesar.
Marc:I fucking loved it.
Marc:And people were like, meh.
Marc:I'm like, no.
Marc:Barton Fink and Hell, Caesar?
Guest:Barton Fink.
Marc:As a double feature?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'll show you a life of the mind.
Marc:I mean, come on, man.
Marc:I mean, that's just crazy shit.
Marc:But I watch Fargo over and over again.
Marc:I really love her in that.
Marc:There's so many that are so good.
Marc:But it's just like, even the serious man.
Marc:I'll fucking take the Hollywood movies and the Jewish movie over fucking Lebowski.
Marc:And that's just like, for people that are Coen Brothers freaks, that's like just heresy.
Marc:Fuck them.
Guest:Fuck him.
Marc:I'll have mine.
Marc:I even watched Burn After Reading again because I had to talk to Clooney.
Marc:And I liked it better because Brad Pitt's so goddamn funny.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I need to rewatch that.
Marc:So, Paul Thomas Anderson.
Marc:When you deal with that guy, because I have to assume you're learning from working with these actors and with these directors, like you're gleaning something.
Marc:I mean, I have to assume that as a kid, that as an adult, you have that John Voight moment all the time.
Marc:I mean, when you're sitting there driving Robert De Niro and Al Pacino and it's their coverage, you must be making mental notes.
Guest:Oh my God, yeah.
Guest:I think it's usually, it all sort of leads back to the same lesson, it seems like, over and over again, which is what
Guest:we're talking about it's it's um honestly being present yeah it's it's the old cliche of doing all the work and then throwing it away it's like it's a it's a cliche or it's said over and over again because it is it just is the truth you know there's this
Guest:unflinching dedication search for what it is beforehand in the preparation.
Guest:And then letting every bit of it go and not being married to anything that you thought maybe would be smart or something.
Guest:And seeing what it is now, you know, when you're shooting it.
Guest:And that's...
Guest:the majority of amazing directors and actors that I've worked with, that's what it is.
Guest:It's like you can see the amount of work that they've put into it beforehand, and then you see something evolve.
Guest:And to watch De Niro sort of make these tiny little subtle, not even adjustments, but each take, he's...
Guest:fully here with you, and it's, you know, I mean, yeah.
Marc:It's because you sit there and watch it.
Marc:I mean, my time with him was brief, but just to even see him work, there's also such a deep confidence there around being on camera.
Marc:I mean, you know, movie actors are movie actors, and you don't know, a lot of it's a gift, a natural gift in a way, but he's been on cameras for so long, because I'm sitting there watching him doing take after take, and I'm like, how's he going to put this together?
Marc:How's the director going to go?
Marc:He's reading off cue cards.
Marc:What are we going to fucking do?
Marc:But De Niro knows.
Marc:He knows how it's all going to be.
Marc:Exactly, yeah.
Marc:He knows, which is baffling to me.
Marc:Okay, so tell me about Scott Cooper.
Marc:He seems like old school, real deal motherfucker.
Guest:He is.
Marc:Like he's doing it the old way.
Guest:And he's proud of it, proud to let you know that he's old school.
Marc:You did three movies with him?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Hostiles?
Guest:Hostiles.
Guest:Which I liked.
Guest:I loved Hostiles.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Antlers.
Guest:No, but Scott is... Antlers, is that out yet?
Guest:Just came out recently.
Guest:Really?
Marc:What's that about?
Guest:Oh, it's a horror movie.
Guest:It's a horror movie.
Guest:It's his first foray into horror.
Guest:So it's out?
Guest:Yeah, just recently.
Guest:I got to look at it.
Guest:He's another one that's just very open to whatever is needed with the actors.
Guest:He also just has boundless energy and enthusiasm and confidence, which kind of... Kind of need it, right?
Guest:Yeah, I'd do anything for that guy.
Marc:I just realized I somehow put a block on it because I think my brain responds to it as trauma.
Marc:I'm thinking of ending things.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I was wondering what that was there.
Guest:It's like I wasn't recording.
Marc:That was a big, long movie, and my brain just broke.
Marc:It was like Synecdoche, New York, too.
Guest:Oh, man.
Marc:I don't know what to do with that shit, man.
Marc:And you acted the fuck out of that movie, and I walked out of it going, like, what happened?
Marc:What am I supposed to take away from that?
Marc:I don't know what, I mean, holy shit, man.
Marc:What did you think when you looked at that script?
Guest:I read it at 3 a.m.
Guest:because that was when I got it.
Guest:And that's a weird way to drift off to sleep.
Guest:But I had never had that experience before reading something where...
Guest:It totally just like jumbled up my insides and I had such a visceral reaction to it.
Guest:And I had no clue why, what it had just done to me.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I mean, it's kind of the same experience watching it, kind of the same thing making it.
Guest:There was a time beforehand, we didn't give very much time to rehearse, but we had a few days and we were doing some rehearsals at the house.
Guest:We were all kind of holding on to the fact that none of us felt like we knew what we were doing, what this was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But no one was willing to admit it yet.
Guest:And I felt like what I was doing was really bad.
Guest:But at the same time, it had such an effect on me, you know, even though it just... Bad as an actor or bad morally?
Guest:Bad as an actor.
Guest:Oh, oh, oh.
Guest:I felt like it wasn't good, but the effect it was having on me was really significant and profound.
Guest:And then we went to dinner that night and kind of all confessed that we were sort of feeling lost.
Guest:And David Thewlis sort of asked Charlie... Charlie Kaufman.
Guest:Charlie Kaufman, like, what is this about?
Guest:What is this to you?
Guest:And Charlie just kind of goes...
Guest:You know, I don't know.
Guest:Which he does.
Guest:And then he eventually sort of told us as much as we wanted to know, but he kind of... We landed on this idea of...
Guest:really giving in to the unknown and relinquishing control and giving in to whatever this thing is going to be.
Guest:And it went from, holy shit, I've got 12 pages of dialogue that we're doing each day for the next three days to hopping on a train and saying, see you later, and then doing a 16-minute take, and it was just...
Guest:So exhilarating.
Guest:And he's just got such a big heart and is so in the fight with you, Charlie.
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:Sounds like a unique experience.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The only thing that would ever come close to that is another one of his films.
Guest:It's kind of in a class on its own.
Marc:And Paul's pretty light on set.
Marc:He's just sort of like Paul Thomas Anderson.
Marc:He's just kind of
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it's been a while, but that's the other thing, too, is there are certain things, and you could say this about all the great directors I've worked with, is that there are certain things he's absolutely certain about.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And there are certain things he has no idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah, so do something.
Guest:You figure it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why are you asking so many questions?
Guest:You know?
Guest:That's the excitement.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:But it seems like working with Jane was one of very few times you worked on a film with a woman director.
Marc:Did you feel a shift in perception?
Marc:I mean, I don't know.
Guest:I'm working with a woman right now in this miniseries.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's the miniseries?
Guest:It's called Love and Death.
Guest:It's this HBO miniseries based on this Texas Monthly article from the early 80s.
Guest:Oh, is it on already?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:We're still shooting it.
Guest:But yeah, I don't know.
Guest:Jane, she's maybe more old school in her idea of rehearsal and all that.
Guest:So we had two weeks rehearsal beforehand, which you just never get.
Marc:It's great, right?
Guest:It's great.
Guest:I mean...
Guest:there's just a, like, knee-jerk reaction that I and a lot of actors I know get when you hear, like, you gotta rehearse.
Guest:You're like, oh, shit, come on.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Because you guys are just... There's this fear of, like, losing something.
Guest:Of the spontaneity.
Guest:Losing something.
Guest:but i learned during this that it only kind of grounds you more and makes you more confident and you develop a sort of history in that time that plays in the movie you know um and especially for for benedict and myself right yeah you got all this history that we had to right and sometimes when you just show up day of it's time you know this is your wife yeah exactly yeah
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So that gave you a little at least some sort of emotional connection.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:So wait.
Marc:So now Austin, let's talk Austin real quick.
Marc:Is it how long you live there?
Guest:Friday Night Lights was was 2006.
Guest:And I bought a place there in 07 and kind of been back and forth.
Marc:Now, I haven't been back in a few years, and I generally like to go there once a year to do a big show and drive out to Spicewood and go to Opie's, which is my favorite place, barbecue-wise.
Marc:But I don't know what's going on there.
Marc:Some of it's for tax purposes, and I know that the tech industry is in there.
Marc:But I have to imagine that the locals are as much against it as some are for it.
Marc:What's your feeling of the place?
Guest:It seems like, you know, we were talking a little bit before.
Marc:Like is it South by Southwest every day now?
Guest:There's a lot of bachelorette groups, a lot of birthday parties.
Guest:But it's a double-edged sword like it is everywhere else with the cities that are growing.
Guest:But the thing that I sort of first fell in love with Austin, it is getting harder to find.
Guest:Austin was kind of the first city where I felt like
Guest:You know, it wasn't my tiny town.
Guest:It wasn't L.A.
Guest:It sort of felt like something that was home, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you can still find it there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it is, yeah, you just have to do the thing that you do in L.A.
Guest:and just kind of ignore this over here, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I wonder how bad it's going to get.
Marc:Do you hang out with any of the other actors that live there?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Do I?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I have a bunch of musician friends from when I was there the last time.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I guess not.
Marc:No, I guess I don't.
Marc:That's all right.
Marc:And so the fatherhood thing's working out for you?
Marc:You got two now?
Guest:It's the best, yeah.
Guest:I've got a three-and-a-half-year-old and a seven-month-old.
Marc:You had a pandemic baby?
Guest:The seven-month-old was, yeah.
Marc:I do a bit about people who had the babies during the pandemic.
Guest:Let's hear it.
Guest:Come on.
Marc:No, I just said, what kind of selfish monsters would not even knowing whether we would all die or not decide to bring a child into the world during that time?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I did have that thought.
Marc:Then it's good.
Marc:It's a cynical joke, but I do this whole thing.
Marc:I do this whole almost like a mini one-man show where I go, at some point, these plague babies are going to want to know what it was like when they were born.
Marc:And I do this whole bit of this father talking to this kid about what it was like when they were in lockdown.
Marc:And it's one of the most favorite things I've ever written.
Marc:It's a dark bit.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, well, it was also politically at that time, that was just as scary.
Guest:It felt like the end was coming.
Guest:But at the same time...
Guest:you know, sort of rationalizing it as when else would we have all this time alone, you know, at the house.
Guest:So you rolled the dice.
Marc:We'll just see how long the climate stays livable.
Marc:But have a good time with them.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, our oldest needs a friend anyway.
Marc:Yeah, that's the point.
Marc:Yeah, I bought a cat and I got a brother and I bought a cat for a cat.
Marc:I get it, I get it.
Marc:And then Kristen's okay?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Kirsten, yeah.
Marc:I'm sorry, did I fuck that up?
Marc:That's all right.
Marc:Kirsten Dunst.
Marc:You got it, yeah.
Marc:Kirsten.
Marc:I'm so, like, sloppy with fucking names.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:It's an obligatory thing.
Marc:It happens a lot, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, do you talk to... Do you have any pals from, like... Do you talk to Aaron Paul?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's got a little girl that's just a little bit older than our oldest.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And, yeah, we get the kids together, and... Yeah.
Guest:That's nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I watched it all again, like, at some point.
Marc:I think during the pandemic, I watched all of Breaking Bad again.
Marc:And it's just... You guys, it's just crazy shit, man.
Marc:That character for him, like...
Marc:I don't know where he found it, but holy fuck.
Marc:Watching it a second time, you realize there's so much comedy in it.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:There is so much fucking comedy in it.
Marc:And the two of them, it's like a classic comedy team.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:Walter White and Jesse?
Guest:Well, that's Vince Gilligan.
Guest:He's just, there's so much happening in every scene, you know.
Guest:It was just great to see the whole arc of it.
Marc:And then I went to the premiere of the El Camino.
Guest:Yeah, I saw you there.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You were with Bob, I think.
Marc:You were wandering in with Bob, was it?
Marc:With Odenkirk?
Marc:I think I saw you.
Marc:Maybe that was an award show for something.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No, it was probably the premiere of that.
Marc:I think so, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I've interviewed all those guys, but like a long time ago.
Marc:But it's good that you guys are friends.
Marc:Because a lot of times I ask people if they're friends with people and they're like, nah, I never talked to them.
Marc:And it just happens, you know.
Guest:Especially in this city.
Guest:You know, I don't know why everyone sort of stays in their neighborhood.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I just went to New York, man.
Marc:And I've been there since before the thing.
Marc:And it was like, oh, my God.
Marc:It's electric.
Marc:That's what I hear.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:It's like plugging back in to just.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I mean, I don't know how much time you've spent there.
Marc:I mean, I used to live there.
Marc:So it's not unfamiliar to me, but it just felt like people are doing it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, I've only spent time in New York when I was working there, but just the random conversations with strangers in New York, it's something that I look forward to, you know, because there's no choice.
Guest:You're in it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Then the walking and just being around people.
Marc:Well, here's what I think you got to do.
Marc:Let's get this theater thing with Rory going.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:That's the pitch, man.
Guest:I doubt that will happen.
Guest:I doubt I could convince him, but yeah.
Guest:I'll try.
Guest:Maybe if we film it or something.
Guest:I'll talk to him.
Guest:We cut all of his lines and... Just let him stand there?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Be the quiet guy?
Marc:Do a production of Cuckoo's Nest and he can play Chief.
Guest:He'd be great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right, buddy.
Marc:It's good talking to you.
Guest:Good talking to you.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Marc:Okay, that was Jesse Plemons and me.
Marc:The movie is The Power of the Dog.
Marc:Here's some guitar work.
guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and LaFonda cat angels everywhere.