Episode 128 - Mike Schmidt
Guest:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck nots?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:Whatever the fuck you want to call yourselves.
Marc:I hope you're doing okay.
Marc:I hope you feel great.
Marc:I hope you are the center of your universe.
Marc:I hope you feel that you deserve great things.
Marc:I hope that you were large.
Marc:You loom large in your perception of the world.
Marc:Because today is the day that you can celebrate freedom from sickness.
Marc:Those of you who know you're special, who know you're great and possibly underappreciated, who believe that at all times people are thinking about you and only you and that the broad spectrum of your impact in your universe and perhaps the universe at large is it looms big, big.
Marc:Big, you know who you are.
Marc:You're great.
Marc:You are the people that were once called narcissists, the people that know in your heart that you have narcissistic personality disorder.
Marc:Today is your day.
Marc:I'll tell you why in just a second.
Marc:Let's get into a little bit of business first.
Marc:If you want tickets to my Union Hall show or the shows, the four shows I'm doing, the 9th and 10th,
Marc:of december that's thursday and friday am i right am i opening my calendar am i losing my mind am i eating too much aspartame a lot of things going on 9th and 10th at union hall in brooklyn four shows 7 30 and 9 30 on thursday and friday i believe the second show friday is sold out but there are still tickets available for the other three if you're coming to the shows it's my cd taping i gotta get it i gotta be able to get an hour out of four shows uh
Marc:Go to Union Hall New York Union Hall NY dot com and get tickets for that.
Marc:Getting a lot of questions about the first 50 episodes.
Marc:The first 50 episodes of WTF will once again be available on iTunes soon.
Marc:I will let you know the details on that.
Marc:Well, let's get back to you special people.
Marc:Oh, and by the way, Mike Schmidt will be on the show in just a few minutes.
Marc:He will be here.
Marc:The host of the 40 year old boy podcast will be here.
Marc:Relax.
Marc:Relax.
Marc:There's a couple of things I want to address.
Marc:And again, you special people out there, you know who you are.
Marc:You know it's all about you.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Today's our day.
Marc:Because today, the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has eliminated five of the ten personality disorders that are listed in the current edition.
Marc:Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Marc:is no longer listed.
Marc:It is no longer listed.
Marc:It is not a disorder.
Marc:They are removing it from the tome that defines us as sick.
Marc:You are free, narcissist.
Marc:And I know you're going to take a hit.
Marc:I know this feels bad, and I know that you need the attention that you once had knowing you were truly a narcissist.
Marc:A lot of people are narcissistic, but few of you are actual possessors of the former narcissistic personality disorder.
Marc:You're free.
Marc:You're no longer sick.
Marc:But you're great, okay?
Marc:Don't feel left out.
Marc:You truly are terrific.
Marc:Don't feel left out.
Marc:The other five, if you're curious, if you don't know, let me read you some of this.
Marc:Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by a longstanding pattern of grandiosity, either in fantasy or actual behavior, an overwhelming need for admiration and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others.
Marc:People with disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody's life or to anyone they meet.
Marc:While this pattern of behavior may be appropriate for a king in the 16th century, England is generally considered inappropriate for most ordinary people.
Marc:I, and I'm quoting from something I found online.
Marc:I looked it up on a website of psychological disorders, and I disagree.
Marc:What am I disagreeing with?
Marc:Oh, it is not inappropriate.
Marc:It is the way many people are.
Marc:The fact that they're taking out of the DSM is amazing.
Marc:Apparently, what they want to do is just break it into a series of symptoms and treat symptoms.
Marc:They no longer clinically want to assess a broad spectrum of these symptoms as being a personality disorder, which on some level means to me they're just figuring out a way to alleviate responsibility for really being diagnostic and just medicating symptoms.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:But, you know, as I read this, I realize, holy shit, I got a lot of these.
Marc:I got a lot of these.
Marc:I'm willing to bet my dad is a true narcissist and I have shrapnel.
Marc:I have I have some psychological shrapnel from being brought up with this, but but I'm working on it.
Marc:But I'm free.
Marc:I'm no longer sick and I can no longer be.
Marc:You can call me a narcissist, but it doesn't mean anything.
Marc:It's no longer a disorder.
Marc:The other disorders.
Marc:This is what's interesting.
Marc:The other disorders were histrionic personality disorder, paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder and dependent personality disorder.
Marc:Do you know about these?
Marc:I didn't know about these.
Marc:I'm I'm not a psychologist.
Marc:I don't study psychologists.
Marc:Of course, I was very flattered that I had been called a narcissist before because, you know, the attention is nice.
Marc:histrionic personality disorder dig this is characterized by a long-standing pattern of attention seeking behavior and extreme emotionality someone with histrionic personality disorder wants to be the center of attention in any group of people and feel uncomfortable when they are not while often lively interesting and sometimes dramatic they have difficulty when people aren't focused exclusively on them
Marc:People with this order may be perceived as being shallow and may engage in sexually seductive behavior to draw attention to themselves, unquote.
Marc:I think this is me too.
Marc:Oh man, I got both of them.
Marc:Paranoid personality disorder.
Marc:Now, these are no longer personality disorders.
Marc:These are just apparently descriptions of me.
Marc:People with paranoid personality disorder are generally characterized by having a longstanding pattern of pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others.
Marc:A person with paranoid personality disorder will nearly always believe that other people's motives are suspect or even malevolent.
Marc:Individuals with this disorder assume that other people exploit harm or deceive them, even if no evidence exists to support this expectation.
Marc:While it is fairly normal for everyone to have some degree of paranoia about certain situations in their lives, such as worry about an impending set of layoffs at work, people with paranoid personality disorder take this to an extreme.
Marc:It pervades virtually every professional and personal relationship they have.
Marc:This is me, too.
Marc:I'm all three of these things are taking out of the book.
Marc:Wait, there's more schizoid personality disorder.
Marc:I can't be that.
Marc:That sounds horrible.
Marc:Schizoid personality disorder is characterized by a longstanding pattern of detachment from social relationships.
Marc:A person with schizoid personality disorder often has difficulty expressing emotions as does so typically in a very restricted range, especially when communicating with others.
Marc:I never had that.
Marc:That's not me.
Marc:But the first three are me.
Marc:And apparently I'm not sick anymore.
Marc:I'm free.
Marc:I'm just a collection of symptoms that are common to a few different personality disorders that are no longer personality disorders.
Marc:And I use them to to to help me.
Marc:Now, this schizoid thing, let's talk about that schizoid personality disorder characterized by a longstanding pattern of detachment from social relations.
Marc:So anyways, congratulations, narcissists, histrionic personality disorder sufferers, paranoid personality disorder sufferers, schizoid personality disorder sufferers.
Marc:And and dependent personality.
Marc:Wait a minute.
Marc:I forgot one.
Marc:Dependent personality disorder that that's no longer on there either.
Marc:It's characterized by a longstanding need for the person to be taken care of and a fear of being abandoned or separated from important individuals.
Marc:And here's her life.
Marc:This leads the person to engage in dependent and submissive behaviors that are designed to elicit caregiving behaviors in others.
Marc:The dependent behavior may be seen as being clingy or clinging on to others because the person fears they can't live their lives without the help of others.
Marc:This sounds like everybody on some level, but that one's out.
Marc:So if you're specifically that, that's out.
Marc:I got a little of that, but the first three are fucking me, man.
Marc:Narcissistic, histrionic, paranoid.
Marc:I'm free, no longer a sick man.
Marc:Congratulate me.
Marc:I think this is also an adjustment to the world we live in.
Marc:It becomes impossible to diagnose those first three, those things to diagnose narcissism, histrionic personality or paranoid personality disorder in this culture we live in that thrives on self-absorption, that thrives on people wanting to be seen and rewarded.
Marc:Even it's only for a few minutes that thrives on paranoia because of all of the impact.
Marc:It's impossible.
Marc:How are you going to diagnose paranoia?
Marc:in the culture that we live in right now we're supposed to be paranoid how are you going to diagnose histrionic personality disorder when everybody wants to fucking be famous how are you going to diagnose narcissistic personality when when it is almost a survival tool in the culture we live in am i rationalizing is it all about me is it right now in your head as you listen to this is it oh man i gotta call my dad and tell him he's off the hook
Marc:Let's talk about something else as we head into Michael Schmidt, Mike Schmidt, who I only met during our talk.
Marc:The first time I met him, some of his fans reached out to me.
Marc:He used to be part of the Jimmy Pardo operation over there at Never Not Funny.
Marc:He's got a very sort of interesting history of self-sabotage that he talks about quite frequently about getting the stiff end of the stick by by his own hand.
Marc:He gets the is it the stiff end of the stick or the short end of the stick?
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's the saying.
Marc:He gets a short end of the stick, which apparently he uses to clobber himself with.
Marc:But we all experience that.
Marc:And I got to thinking about this, about this idea of self-sabotage, about people who are truly talented and truly creative and gifted and all of the things that you would think would be the recipe for success but aren't.
Marc:And a lot of people around those people say things like, I don't get it.
Marc:He should be big.
Marc:Or they say, you know, he's a fucking genius.
Marc:He's just underappreciated.
Marc:Or they say, you know, he gets in his own way.
Marc:He gets in his own way.
Marc:He gets in his own way.
Marc:He self-sabotages.
Marc:What about that?
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:I'm trying to look at it in myself because I've been stuck at a certain level for years.
Marc:I've had a lot of opportunity.
Marc:I got friends that are brilliant.
Marc:But now, you know, I'm seeing...
Marc:Some success, at least in my heart and my mind.
Marc:And I'm glad you people enjoy listening to me.
Marc:But what was it that was stopping me?
Marc:You know, justifying failure.
Marc:through bitterness or anger is a very comfortable place to be because then you don't really risk failure do you justifying failure like you know they don't fucking like me yeah you know that other the fuck that guy he's he's famous but you know i'm doing something different they don't understand what i'm doing uh you know i should have had that but you know they're fucked up
Marc:That disposition is a very active and enchanting disposition.
Marc:It's stability for somebody who is frightened.
Marc:It's stability for somebody who is not able to see their own limitations and work within them, which I think is a symptom of narcissism.
Marc:It's stability for somebody who wants to be vindicated for taking any responsibility for their part in it.
Marc:It takes a certain amount of self-awareness to know that you fucked up your life.
Marc:And then to change.
Marc:It also takes a lot of commitment to know that you fucked up your life and stay fucked.
Marc:Because that is a point of view.
Marc:That is a point of view.
Marc:I've had that point of view.
Marc:I've been there.
Marc:I'd like to think I'm evolving out of it, but it's very frightening.
Marc:You know, in order to it took, you know, some some guy told me a long time ago that that the sign of maturity is acknowledging your own limitations.
Marc:And I just really think that I never really did that.
Marc:And now I'm starting to and it doesn't feel good.
Marc:It doesn't feel good to know that there are certain things you can't do.
Marc:And I've talked about this before.
Marc:But but you know, but feeling that pain, feeling that knowledge of like, you know, that's not going to happen or I'm not capable of that or that's a little out of my wheelhouse.
Marc:Especially if you're narcissistic, self-centered and think you're the fucking, you know, you can do anything.
Marc:It's sort of painful.
Marc:Humility is painful.
Marc:It's fucking humbling.
Marc:But God, I'm so glad I'm not a narcissist.
Marc:I'm not, right?
Marc:No, it doesn't exist anymore.
Marc:But anyways, I'm going to sit down, talk to Mike Schmidt, see where we go with that.
Marc:I think we got a lot of shared experience, a lot of common ground.
Marc:And I think he, let's see, schizoid personality disorder.
Marc:I think, you know, he might have a bit of that, but I don't want to diagnose.
Marc:And you know what?
Marc:It doesn't matter anymore because that's off the list.
Marc:I believe Mike and I are off the list.
Marc:And I think that you can just call us entertainers.
Marc:Guys you plug into your head.
Marc:This is what we do, Mike.
Marc:All right.
Marc:This is what we do, you and I. Don't include me in that, friend.
Marc:That's what you do.
Marc:No, this is what you do.
Marc:I've listened to you.
Marc:I've listened to a couple of your things.
Marc:You do this, don't you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:Yeah, it's going well.
Guest:I'm teasing.
Guest:I deflect a lot.
Guest:I do that a lot, where I'll be like, no, that's all you.
Guest:You're good.
Marc:No, but I mean, I know from when I listen to your show...
Marc:Mike Schmidt is in the garage here at the Cat Ranch.
Marc:When I listen to your show, and mind you, I didn't really, I'd heard about you, I didn't know you, I don't know your history, I don't know anything about you, but you have very pesty fans.
Marc:Really?
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:Maybe they're my fans.
Marc:I don't know who they are, but I've gotten several emails over the course of several months saying, why don't you talk to Mike Schmidt?
Marc:You guys need to talk.
Marc:And then I listen to you, and I'm like, how are we going to talk?
Guest:i mean there's no room for both of us talking about ourselves self self mythologizing our mundane day-to-day like i just watched you park and i figure you got to get a half hour out of that oh sure yeah how the fuck did that happen well dude well i again i had here's how sad it is i have a phone that told me how to get here and i google mapped it and i have a gps and they all had a different way so i'm on 51 and then i'm on 53 and i'm giving way too much information to people where you live and uh
Guest:Turning around, and then there's garbage cans.
Guest:Dude, I don't know.
Guest:It took me like 17 minutes to goddamn park.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:I watched you.
Marc:You turned around, and then you went to park, and then you turned around again and went to park, and then you turned around.
Marc:But this is within half a block.
Guest:Well, luckily, I saw WTF bumper stickers on the car.
Guest:Otherwise, I'm looking for plates and addresses, and I'm trying to keep an eye on the road with hills.
Guest:I don't fucking know, dude.
Marc:What the fuck is wrong with us?
Marc:I listen to your show, and granted, I only listen to one.
Marc:I'm going to do this to you.
Marc:Which one?
Marc:The one about the moving of the couch, fairly recent one.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, just so I could get a sense of who you are.
Marc:I knew you were a guy that was a funny guy.
Marc:I'd gotten some sort of update about, oh, Jesse Thorne was getting behind your performance in San Francisco.
Marc:How'd that go, by the way?
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:It was it was really good.
Guest:It's I want to talk to you because I want to hear all about, you know, sadly, I'm going to do that thing.
Guest:Tell me how to do a one man show, Mark, because I know you did Jerusalem Syndrome and then you workshopped it and you did all those different things.
Guest:And these are my first performances of it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, I think you and I have a lot in common.
Marc:I mean, when I was doing putting together Jerusalem Syndrome, I don't write anything down in long form.
Marc:So literally my process was I got a small theater.
Marc:I got a woman who was a producer who had access to a small theater.
Marc:And I did several shows, workshop shows over several months where I'd get anywhere from eight to 15, maybe to 30 people.
Marc:And I would sometimes do over two hours.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I would record them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I would talk to her.
Marc:Do you have a director?
Marc:I don't.
Marc:I have me.
Marc:There's no way you can direct yourself, Mike.
Guest:I know this just by listening to you.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:San Francisco, the first night... All right, I come from stand-up.
Guest:I started in 1990.
Guest:But I settled.
Guest:I became a middle act and my friends would bring me with them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was happy to take the paycheck and hang out with my friends.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And because of that, my peers have now passed me and I'm nobody.
Guest:Nobody knows the fuck I am.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So I made that mistake.
Guest:So now doing the podcast.
Marc:Had you not made that mistake, do you think you would be what?
Marc:Where do you think you'd be now?
Guest:um i wouldn't be calling people who don't know the fuck i am i wouldn't be trolling open mics at 43 and going hey can i get five minutes we don't know who the fuck you are dude hey who are you 21 years old get on stage fuck you uh you troll open mics not no that's the problem i won't go i mean i i have to get back doing it and so i hadn't been on stage in forever yeah uh and i did san francisco the first and the longest i'd ever done was 42 minutes
Marc:Ever in your life.
Guest:Ever.
Guest:But now, because of the podcast, you know you can do much longer.
Guest:But I didn't know that until that night.
Guest:I was fucking scared about filling the time.
Guest:First night, I did an hour and 40 minutes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Second night, I did two and a half hours.
Guest:Right.
Guest:On stage, me alone, sweating, talking, and receptive people.
Guest:How many people?
Guest:It was a 50-seat theater.
Guest:The first night, we only had about 35.
Guest:Second night, we had 45.
Guest:45 people held hostage by your brain.
Guest:People flew in from Canada.
Marc:Two and a half hours.
Guest:Yeah, people flew from Canada.
Guest:People came in from Seattle.
Guest:Isn't that amazing about the podcast?
Guest:Unreal.
Guest:I've heard you say you get donations from Germany.
Marc:Yeah, people travel, though.
Marc:People travel hundreds of miles.
Marc:I did a show.
Marc:Where was it?
Marc:Someone drove from...
Marc:From Utah to Indiana.
Marc:They drove 15 hours.
Marc:Well, it's kind of the same state, though.
Marc:I mean, they felt comfortable at least.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:Nothing was surprising to them, except that one was more arid than the other one.
Marc:And flat.
Marc:Well, no, Utah's flat.
Marc:No, it's got hills.
Marc:It's got stuff.
Marc:But Utah's pretty hot.
Marc:It's kind of deserty from my recollection.
Marc:Indiana's kind of cold and kind of northern.
Marc:And I have no fucking idea.
Marc:There's quarries.
Yeah.
Marc:I noticed a quarry that they built the entire college out of in Bloomington.
Marc:Oh, Lord.
Marc:That's the big hook.
Marc:Yeah, it was all built from one rock.
Guest:Oh, dude.
Marc:All right, so there you are.
Marc:You're up in San Francisco.
Marc:You do two and a half hours.
Marc:You feel like a rock star.
Marc:I'll never be better than that.
Marc:I'll never be better than the Saturday I did in San Francisco.
Marc:I just can't see it.
Marc:But I think what you experienced, though, was actually the feeling of being on stage for the first time in that long a time.
Marc:And you were so juiced up.
Marc:And you were so excited to have a responsive audience.
Marc:And they were your friends.
Marc:They were people that love you.
Marc:And there's nothing going to be more satisfying than that.
Marc:But now comes the big work, Mike.
Marc:Now comes the molding, the structuring.
Marc:Let's see if we can do it twice time.
Guest:Oh, dude.
Guest:Believe me.
Guest:I know.
Guest:That came the next day.
Guest:That night I was in San Francisco.
Guest:I'm in a cab.
Guest:I'm leaning out the window, handing money to people.
Guest:I'm fantastic.
Guest:I'm done.
Guest:I did it.
Guest:Where's the mayor?
Guest:Is he supposed to shake my fucking hand?
Guest:Where's the key to the city?
Guest:God damn it.
Guest:And sure enough, I drove home that night and my producer of my podcast, Lillivan Stubb, she was asleep in the passenger seat.
Guest:And as the sun came up and I saw myself in the rearview mirror, your eyes, you get that, oh, you got to do this again, dude.
Guest:You drove all the way home from San Francisco that night after the big show.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:What am I going to do?
Guest:Stick around?
Guest:Oh, I leave that town.
Guest:I'm like, adios.
Guest:And I wave and they all sat there and clapped at the border.
Marc:Isn't that an amazing thing about what we do?
Marc:It's like there's that moment where you're like, everyone's like in your mind or even maybe in reality, they're chanting your name.
Marc:And there you are going, all right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where are you guys going to eat?
Guest:yeah dude those moments like even when you do stand-up you'd be crushing it and then you're in a fucking perkins at three in the morning with a member of the audience oh dude yeah yeah and ignore and they don't even want to be there with you they're just kind of there and that's who you wound up with because it dissipated you know that's the disappointing the fans tour
Guest:I've been on that for fucking 20 years.
Marc:But the weird thing is, is that did you find that you were telling stories that you told before?
Guest:Well, I made a point to I there were two stories that I had never told on the podcast.
Guest:I wanted to have something in the live show that that people have not heard.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then again, I've had these grandiose ideas like I'm you know, I'm defending the caveman.
Guest:I'm going to franchise these and I'm going to have one segment just about work and one about the road and one about women.
Guest:And, you know, I'm going to do all these different one man shows and built a big business right there in your head.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And but I made sure, you know, I felt that's the problem I had was the dealing with what a one man show should be.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:In creating it.
Guest:If you heard the show, I kind of spin around a lot.
Guest:So especially because I'm alone.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'll talk and then I'll wedge in a joke and then I'm able to milk it because Lily laughs.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:And she lets me be who I want to be and talk and find in mind for material.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So when I sat down to write, I actually would write stuff out, which I just because I was so frightened about not remembering.
Guest:And I would keep wedging in jokes and jokes and jokes.
Guest:So something that was supposed to be a paragraph wound up being three pages because of all these asides and things like that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm like, dude, you got to stop.
Guest:I mean, you got to.
Marc:Were you able to honor a script, though?
Marc:I mean, it doesn't.
Marc:No, because I can't.
Marc:And I'm just being from I have ideas.
Marc:I know what stories I want to tell.
Marc:But the only way you're going to get those beats right is if you repeat them.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:But the thing is, with my show, you know, I'm in year three now.
Marc:of the podcast a 40 year old boy yeah and i'm i'm gonna be honest i'm gonna say like 99 of those stories are being told for the first time when i sit down to do that yeah i i have the same experience in here like i i don't have someone uh laughing at me but uh once you get your your might your your headset on and i'm i'm out and i'm looking out and i'm literally sitting in this clutter you know picking up pieces of paper going all right where are we going and
Marc:What's going to happen?
Marc:What am I going to bring up?
Marc:And I get concerned, though.
Marc:I mean, don't you find that at some point, like you talk about your wife a lot, I imagine, your marriage.
Marc:She comes up.
Marc:Your failure is a big theme.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:It's the theme.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Now, do you find, I mean, I know that people relate to my neurosis, but I'm not as heavy on...
Marc:Well, maybe I am a little.
Marc:Maybe that's why people keep telling us we need to talk.
Marc:Is there a difference between what we do sometimes and just sort of amplified self-pity?
Marc:I mean, what happens if either one of us really becomes successful?
Guest:Well, 45 Konans saying that is so crazy, Mark.
Guest:I mean, I.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:But let's talk honestly, all right?
Marc:Because you know this business and you've been in this business, all right?
Marc:Now, what that doesn't guarantee me is that people will come see me.
Marc:Now, I'm literally in the same boat that you are in terms of drawing people for the most part.
Marc:Now, the podcast has brought me new life, but for some reason, in all my different outfits and haircuts, you know, I did not grab the hearts and minds of America.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, I got the TV opportunities and I'm certainly grateful about them, but ultimately what that's supposed to do is people are supposed to come see you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:supposed to go up the ladder right now what happens to me and it's a similar story that you would probably tell if you were me is that they bring me on stage this guy's done more conans than anybody and i'm playing to half a house half of that doesn't know who i am and doesn't know what you do and so then you're trying to win them the fuck over and you're going does it ever end
Guest:Does it ever going to be right?
Guest:Well, I try to stop that.
Marc:I mean, I've done some therapy.
Marc:I've got some self-awareness around that.
Marc:And I feel like I can entertain people that may not know who I am.
Marc:But one thing I know they don't want to hear is like, you know, I'm a loser.
Well,
Guest:true and i but the people who listen to me they they root for me just like your fans yeah for you and i root for you right and uh and yeah we we are kind of the same i mean i don't want to say kindred spirits whatever we're different but at the same time we both have a lot of the same feelings the week the mel gibson thing hit i did a whole show about how i understand it yeah and and literally and then i told a story about a woman i threw a phone at and all that fucking horse shit and then not your wife uh no no my wife please that would be the last thing i ever threw
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But but then I heard your show and I heard and essentially the same type of deal.
Guest:And you understood that anger and you've seen yourself that way.
Guest:And I was that was what my show was about this week.
Guest:I mean, absolutely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I find that.
Marc:Well, I mean, we maybe we are kindred spirits, but it's a it's it's a lot of heartache, isn't it?
Marc:I mean, the weird thing about making it funny and the one thing I know about the honesty that we both seem to be bringing to the table is that in this format and in that we're talking to individuals, like right now, people on treadmills, people in cars, people going to work on the train or whatever, that that relationship of that heartache of being alive and that existential sort of like, what the fuck is going to happen now?
Marc:It's so common that I don't even, like I resent regular entertainment now.
Marc:I mean, not just because of like opportunities I didn't have, but literally I can go into my house and turn the TV on and go, haven't we had enough of this?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When does this shut the fuck up?
Guest:Yeah, never.
Guest:I know it won't because there's enough people out there who I mean, how many people do you know who don't even know what the fuck a podcast is?
Guest:When you say it to them, they just give you this weird look like and you're like, it's an Internet radio show, but it's not radio.
Guest:And you have to try to break it down for them.
Guest:But then there are people who swear by it.
Guest:And it's so intimate because.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you're right here.
Guest:You're right in someone's ears every week.
Guest:It's fantastic.
Guest:And I find the people who like me root like hard, like Rocky for me.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:The last two weeks have been triumphs.
Guest:Like I did the San Francisco and then came back and did a two hour show about it and then had another show where I actually got to perform for Quentin Tarantino.
Guest:Like he was in the audience and he's a huge thing for me.
Guest:Like a Keith Richards for you, maybe like I've just he's really important to me in his work is I love it.
Marc:And how did that transpire?
Guest:My producer, Lily, is a burlesque dancer and producer.
Guest:Is that an upscale stripper?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, no nipples.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That deal.
Marc:Oh, right, right, art stripping.
Marc:Exactly, yeah.
Guest:But not tape, pasties, right?
Guest:Pasties, yeah, and elaborate.
Guest:Do I know her?
Marc:Have I met her?
Guest:Lily Von Stoep?
Marc:I don't think you have, no.
Marc:Is she part of that whole whoop-a-day, you know, the wrestling and the stripping?
Marc:Oh, Lucha Vavoom?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, but she has good friends who do it.
Marc:Right, I know some of those girls.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's friends with all of them, but she produces her show, and it's the longest-running Los Angeles burlesque show called Monday Night Tees, every Monday night.
Guest:The last three years she's done a Tarantino Inglourious Burlesque, it was called this year, Tribute Show.
Guest:All Tarantino-themed acts, all that stuff.
Guest:So we did it this year on the 23rd.
Guest:That's one of the reasons we had to come home from San Francisco on the night of the 21st was because she had to get ready for the 23rd.
Guest:I was emceeing it.
Guest:I always emcee it.
Guest:And she's invited Tarantino all three years.
Guest:He's never come.
Guest:The Tuesday morning after this year, she got a call from his office saying he wanted a command performance and he would rent a bar.
Guest:And he would buy out a bar with a private guest list and he wanted the show done for him and his friend.
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:So that and by the way, we need it in four days.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:She's calling frantically and emailing and we wound up doing it that Sunday the following, you know, six days later.
Guest:And so I am seated for Tarantino and his private guest list and shoot it in front of everybody except him.
Guest:He's the only one who liked me.
Guest:and hitting the table, telling me I'm fucking hilarious, and heckling in a nice way and being fun.
Guest:Everybody else snooty Hollywood knows in a drink, but him fucking loving every goddamn second of me.
Marc:You're pointing to a relatively full room of people not laughing except for Tarantino.
Guest:Chuckling.
Guest:You know that deal where they don't laugh, they don't laugh, and then Tarantino's going crazy, and I go, thank God you're here, dude, because they fucking hate me.
Guest:And then they laugh.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:They love to see your misery.
Marc:Prince Quentin likes him.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Go, it's okay, it's okay.
Guest:Thank you, Quentin.
Guest:But he loved it.
Guest:He was dude fucking yelling and hitting the table and having fun.
Guest:And so I started to drop in like trivia from the movies and he knew I got it.
Guest:And it was just, it was the greatest.
Guest:Now you walk away from that.
Guest:What's going on in your mind now?
Guest:You know, it's funny what's going on.
Guest:It's like, oh, why didn't those other people come around?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:That's it?
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:Again, triumph.
Guest:I have like 150 emails I haven't answered yet of people going, thank God.
Guest:So that's what we were originally talking about.
Marc:But what's your expectation?
Guest:Nothing from that.
Marc:Seriously?
Guest:From Tarantino thing?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:In your fantasy, what happened?
Guest:Oh, fuck.
Guest:In my fantasy, they're fitting fatty for a fucking black and white suit, and I'm shooting somebody in six weeks.
Guest:I mean, he's in Venice now at the film festival, but when he comes back, I'm sure he's going to call me immediately.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:What can I get this Schmidt guy into?
Guest:He'd look great at an Afro wig.
Guest:Samuel L. Jackson has to meet him.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I've got an idea that could fit him perfectly.
Guest:A million ideas.
Marc:Don't you just have this fantasy where Tarantino listens to all your podcasts and just builds a film around your life?
Guest:I'm sitting there with a business card in my hand waiting, just waiting to palm it to him.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Some weird Hollywood move.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was all about the pussy, though.
Guest:It was like I was able to buttonhole him and shake his hand and tell him how much he meant to me and have like a 30-second, a minute exchange.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he was all about the girls.
Guest:That was it, huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So he basically, like, he was all about the idea of having nothing to do with you.
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:It was all about the fucking Tarantino burlesque and the girl.
Guest:And I recognize that, Mark.
Guest:I'll be honest.
Marc:From the beginning?
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I had no illusions.
Guest:I didn't even want to do it.
Guest:I told Lily because I felt it was about... Because I didn't want to be... I have a problem with being... I don't want to be extraneous.
Guest:I hate coming...
Guest:at guys who are stars or celebrities or whatever from underneath.
Guest:Like, I have this with you, kind of.
Guest:You know, you've done more than me.
Guest:You are more than me.
Guest:Dude, I had Ben Stiller sitting in here.
Marc:And then, like, Judd Apatow.
Marc:I mean, it happens to me a lot, too.
Marc:But, like, at some point, don't we have to accept...
Marc:who we are yes but you know i don't want to give them the chance to be able to to fucking heisman me and just go ah that guy you know what i mean well you mean in terms of like you but see i think that we don't want to give anybody the opportunity to bigfoot me well right because we're prideful yeah i mean i have that same thing where i would avoid i actually you know made a habit and i you know you've been in the business long enough or known some people to where i had this realization where i couldn't understand why all the friends i had that became successful were assholes now
Marc:And it took me half of my life to do the math on that.
Marc:Is it possible, Mark, that they all became assholes or perhaps that you play some part in this equation?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But then I detached from them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you?
Guest:I there's really nobody that I hang out with comedy wise here.
Guest:I was really good friends with Jimmy Pardo.
Guest:He and I were like best friends.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, twice a day on the phone, you know, hanging out talking like girls.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he it got to be too much for him.
Guest:yeah he would take me on the road as his middle and i would fucking grip and you know because i looked at the audience as a as a fight yeah me against them i wasn't sure because they didn't like you no why would they well who's gonna fucking like me absolutely and i worked it's funny i worked topical like almost almost exclusively topical when i was on the road yeah so that even added another layer to it because now i gotta convince these people to listen to topical jokes when they're just in a bar and you know and
Guest:And Jimmy finally got tired of it.
Marc:So you set up a lot of obstacles for yourself that were probably invented to make it difficult.
Guest:Oh, yeah, because then I'd go up and do great.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:But then I'd walk off stage still in a stomach in knots, and thank God I'd get to relax and watch Jim and laugh my ass off, you know what I mean?
Guest:But then even after the show, I was the middle...
Guest:even when i wasn't on the road with a friend who would bring me when i was just doing it and starting out right i was the guy who did his show and walked like off stage out the door into the car went and got drive-through food and watched sports at the hotel like i didn't mingle i didn't fucking talk to anybody i and now i miss every second of it you know what i mean i miss the i just don't like i have been doing it long enough to know to be exhausted i get tired of like the way my fucking brain works yeah
Marc:I mean, I mean, I know it's like it's our it's our mode of expression, you know, and I hear you do it, too.
Marc:But like sometimes I get like fucking exhausted with the shit I'm inventing to make my life more difficult.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So getting back to the one person show.
Marc:So now you've got you tape the two shows.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Two and a half hours, hour and a half.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're trying to figure out what the hell you do next.
Guest:There's a guy in New York named Dave.
Guest:And he was the one who just kind of laid.
Guest:Honestly, David, I don't know his last name.
Guest:Like I can tell you.
Guest:Guy in New York named Dave.
Guest:Communicate via email.
Guest:But we he he was the guy who initially laid the line down and said, dude, I have connections at the Fringe Festival in New York.
Guest:You should be here doing a show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So and then I I'm always good at people telling me things like that.
Guest:I'm like, OK.
Guest:And then I don't do anything until someone eventually offers to do the work.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And a guy named Bucky Sinister.
Marc:I know Bucky.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:He was up in San Francisco.
Guest:He goes, I'll get you a theater and a hotel room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And at that point, if you don't do it, you're scared.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, you're just fucked.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Which theater did you do it in?
Guest:The Dark Room Theater.
Guest:Bucky had a connection there.
Guest:Jim and Aaron were really nice to me.
Guest:And they, it's funny, they don't know who the fuck I am.
Guest:So then they watch the show Saturday and they go...
Guest:You're fucking hilarious.
Guest:I mean, that's amazing.
Guest:And I'm like, well, it was only the second time I did it.
Guest:And they're like, second time in San Francisco?
Guest:I go, no, second time ever doing the show.
Guest:And they're like, you've got to do Sketch Fest.
Guest:And again, very nice.
Guest:Because it went, again, crazy.
Guest:Great.
Guest:But so Dave told me, he's like, you should do a one-man show.
Guest:So I started thinking about it and thinking about it.
Guest:And it was funny.
Guest:The day on the way up there is when I started to think of the structure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:And put the shows together.
Guest:And I knew what I wanted to, I don't want it to be about my family, but the heavy story is about my family.
Guest:And, uh, and it's funny, I have a brother, my older brother's a comic and he's already done his one man show about our family.
Guest:What's his name?
Guest:Lenny Schmidt.
Guest:I don't know Lenny Schmidt.
Marc:I don't know you either.
Marc:I don't know how the hell that happened.
Guest:Oh, because I didn't go out.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:Jesse Thorne brought me up at a show.
Guest:He said, former stand-up comedian, Mike Schmidt.
Marc:Former.
Guest:Yeah, because I haven't been doing it.
Guest:I mean, podcasting has given me new life.
Guest:But that was the dream, right?
Guest:What, to be the stand-up?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, goddamn, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I wanted to be it.
Marc:How the fuck did you quit, though?
Marc:How many years before you started doing the podcast after you quit?
Guest:You know, I didn't quit.
Guest:I really didn't.
Guest:I just stopped because people would bring me out the middle for them, and so that was when I would work.
Marc:No, I get it, but there was at some point where you realized, I'm not going out anymore.
Marc:And I'm not going to open mics.
Marc:All right.
Guest:The last show I did in Chicago when I booked myself out, it was my first.
Guest:I was going to close a room for my buddy Bert.
Guest:I used to be the house emcee at the Funny Bone in Chicago.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, now he has another room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've been a guy who, you know, I used to.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, this will be a whole subset.
Guest:I used to weigh 500 pounds.
Marc:yeah uh yeah and so shit what was that like uh it was big it was no but i mean like i have a fear of fat you know and i have eating disorder brain yeah and when i see people that weigh 500 pounds now all i think when i see them is that all they could be thinking about is like i'm fucking fat yeah and like they just want like did you just want to claw out of your body or do you surrender to it is it like drugs does it still feel good what is it like
Marc:to be 500 pounds, and do you get joy out of eating?
Marc:So many things I want to know from an ex-fat person.
Guest:I'm still fat now.
Guest:I wasn't going to say anything, but I mean you better.
Guest:Dude, I recognize.
Guest:My wife lives in a world of illusion.
Guest:You're not fat.
Guest:I am.
Guest:Once you deal with it, you understand that you are.
Guest:But what if she were to say, you're a fat fuck, do something about it?
Guest:She couldn't be any more hard on me than I am.
Guest:On my show, I talk about I'm the fattest man in the world.
Guest:I know I am.
Guest:And I have a thing called Rocky with a blog on my website where I mentioned it on a show a year ago where I was going to, you know what, I'm going to blog and lose weight and you're going to all follow along with me.
Guest:And then a year later, nothing was fucking happening.
Guest:But now it's happening.
Guest:So it's been going on.
Guest:I've been making entries and I've got a trainer who donated time for advertising on the show.
Guest:And it's helping.
Guest:How much have you lost?
Guest:Because you're not 500 pounds.
Guest:Well, I had the surgery.
Guest:I had to snip the... Really?
Guest:You had the nip and tuck on the inside?
Guest:2005, I got the... You got your colon tucked?
Guest:I got the whole thing.
Guest:They took my stomach away.
Guest:It turned into a shot glass.
Marc:Really?
Guest:That deal.
Marc:Does that stifle your appetite?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Even now, even though I've put on 70 pounds, I was 500.
Guest:I got down to 265, then went back up to 340.
Guest:And I went, what the fuck, dude?
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:Do you eat a lot?
No.
Guest:I eat the wrong things and I stopped working out.
Guest:I had money.
Guest:I was writing on a show.
Guest:What show?
Guest:One of those clip shows for pets.
Guest:It was good money.
Guest:I had a good three-year run where I worked on three different things in a row and was writing for a video game.
Guest:I had constant money coming in writing money, good money.
Guest:I was like, you've got to do something about this.
Guest:I had health plans.
Guest:I went and got the surgery.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then wound up spending money for a trainer, which is, you know, $1,400 for 20 sessions.
Guest:Yeah, it's expensive.
Guest:And I need a guy, but I need a guy fucking yelling at me.
Guest:And I'm an idiot.
Guest:So when I do something, I'm going to go hard.
Guest:I mean, I'll run through a fucking wall.
Guest:I don't care.
Guest:So I lifted hard and got fucking buff and got down to like 265 and then the money ran out.
Guest:So I'm not good at getting myself to the gym and making myself do stuff.
Guest:I'm thinking about it right now.
Marc:So when you get that heavy, I mean, I can't, what's the level of self-hate?
Marc:I mean, you're already self-hating.
Guest:I mean, I can't even fucking imagine.
Guest:But that's what I'm doing is I'm hiding.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'm burying me underneath all of it and not thinking about it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And it's only when you have embarrassing, crazy moments where all of a sudden you have to face it a little bit, like going to a restaurant and breaking a chair in the center of the room in front of everybody and hitting the floor.
Guest:No.
Guest:That gunshot snap of a plastic chair getting turned into fucking kindling underneath you as you topple to the ground in slow motion.
Guest:Butter and rolls following behind you on top of your chest.
Guest:The slow getting up.
Guest:Oh, and just brushing yourself off and we're going to go.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:No eating.
Guest:Dinner's over.
Guest:Oh, no, we're going somewhere else.
Guest:Fuck that.
Guest:I will not be judged.
Guest:How about wedging yourself into a fucking airplane seat?
Guest:Oh, dude, how many apologies?
Guest:Even now, when I was five, Bills, and I was crazy, crazy big.
Guest:I'm big now.
Guest:I brought cash on planes.
Guest:For when I would look, I would take a look around to see if there was an open seat, empty seat.
Guest:I would tell the stewardess when I got on, let me know.
Guest:And I would offer up to 40 bucks for anybody to switch seats with me so I wasn't inconveniencing someone next to me.
Guest:Fuck.
Guest:So I could have room and peace and not have to deal with...
Guest:the entire flight.
Guest:Cause it's not there.
Guest:I recognize it's not their fault, man.
Guest:I'm fucking, you know, it's like the Plato funny pumper.
Guest:I'm oozing over into their fucking seat and their personal space and everything else.
Marc:But your feeling was that you're not like a proud fat person.
Marc:Cause I've met a woman in, uh,
Marc:In New York at a show, she goes, you know, you can be happy and fat.
Marc:And I go, no, you can.
Marc:I, you know, she's like, there's such a thing as happy fat.
Marc:I'm like, I don't get it.
Marc:And what about this idea that fat is some sort of handicap?
Marc:Fuck all that.
Guest:You did it yourself.
Guest:You know, you did it yourself.
Guest:Unless you're a guy who's got, you know, fucking gout and you can't walk or you can't, just fucking put a fork down.
Guest:i i'm not no i'm not a proud happy flag flying fat guy i'm like fuck all that dude i fat people lie and fat people what i because i had to take a bunch of psych tests in order to get that surgery yeah and you had to sit in a room with fat people and watch them bargain and you're just going to bargain with themselves bargain with the the counselor oh really they're not and
Guest:they're not even literally what because they're telling them because you know it's all it's not your fucking mouth it's your head yeah i mean that's what you got to fix right so all these people are trying to set them straight telling them when you get the surgery it's not like a magic bullet and all of a sudden you're going to be fucking you know wafer thin and you can walk around and eat whatever the fuck you want i mean everything changes from this moment on this is because if they don't understand this is dr mangala shit we're cutting your stomach out of your body because you can't control yourself motherfucker yeah and because you're a jew i'm sorry i'm sorry
Guest:Because we need a fucking lampshade.
Guest:We're making things with that.
Guest:And you're going to love them.
Guest:But I saw fat people, they would tell them, you're probably going to have an intolerance to milk, and so you'll have to take calcium pills and stuff.
Guest:And I would see them say things, people would say, well, we can have 1% fat milk, right?
Guest:No, I'm telling you for the first six weeks, you can't have any milk.
Guest:Well, how am I supposed to eat cereal?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Motherfucker.
Guest:You're going to be eating fruit cup for six weeks.
Guest:Don't even worry about cereal, but fat people bargain.
Guest:They want to know because in their head, I would think of, dude, I would wake up in the morning and think about what I was going to eat for dinner as I was eating fruity pebbles and pop tarts, you know?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, that's the hard thing.
Marc:Like with drugs or with cigarettes or with anything else, you don't have to do any of those things.
Marc:You have to eat.
Marc:So like, it's tricky with eating disorders and with those types of addictions.
Marc:Cause like you,
Marc:You can't just say, like, I quit eating.
Marc:Done.
Marc:I'm done.
Marc:Turn it in my card.
Marc:It's behind me.
Marc:The whole food and drink thing.
Marc:Staple my mouth shut.
Marc:Give me an IV.
Marc:I'm fine.
Marc:Well, what the hell caused all this pain?
Marc:Why are we the same?
Marc:Why are we so self-centered and crazy?
Marc:What the hell did you come from?
Guest:Animals?
Guest:I was raised by wombats.
Guest:You were the only human in an animal community, and they all looked up to you?
Guest:Irish family.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Five brothers, or five boys, no sisters.
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:Single mom.
Guest:really yeah my dad uh drunk you know uh died day before my 13th birthday and uh they weren't together no no they got divorced uh you know and i saw you know i had to see a bunch of shit i i had to testify against my dad in the divorce so i had to go downtown and as a kid uh and then go to alateen meetings when i didn't you know i don't got the i don't have the problem why the fuck am i here talking you know that nonsense yeah i know i know i know alan yeah yeah so i i uh that's the that's the short version but any of your brothers turn out to be uh boozers
Guest:Well, Lenny was a drinker and then I think stopped it.
Guest:I have four brothers.
Guest:I only talk to one.
Guest:I don't talk to three of them.
Guest:What happened there?
Guest:My older brother and I have a history because when my dad left, he was essentially my dad.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So and that's I look, I recognize how fucking hard that was for him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:OK, but it doesn't matter because all I care about is me and stop being my dad.
Guest:You know, I'm 40 or 35 or whatever I am.
Guest:And there's a resentment that you're not my dad.
Guest:You're my brother.
Marc:Shut the fuck up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then he hit you.
Guest:uh when i was a kid yeah you know he because he didn't know what is he gonna do he's got to beat the shit out of me to keep me in line you know what i mean and uh you know until that day you know that when i was 13 i punched him in the face and ran you know that final victory until he caught me and kicked the shit out of me um you know but i my older brother and i don't we forever we're you know we don't talk we do talk we don't talk and then we had finally a cataclysmic thing that happened here that ended everything
Guest:Really?
Guest:That was it?
Guest:And the thing was, he lived in my apartment building at the time, me and his wife.
Guest:So I had to see him every day, even though we weren't talking.
Guest:So we'd walk past each other stoically and not say anything.
Guest:Was it that bad?
Guest:Is it still that bad a thing that happened?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:It was a very bad night, but to me was the accumulation of years of on and off.
Guest:And I went, I don't have time for this.
Guest:I don't have time to repair it.
Guest:And then have it break again and repair it and have it splinter again, because there was so much as kids that, you know, we, you know, we went through everything together.
Guest:We were all bunkered down.
Guest:We were latchkey kids.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Single mom.
Guest:My mom's off work and, you know, eight to seven.
Guest:And so Lenny's got to watch the four boys.
Marc:So interesting to me, though, that.
Marc:You know, you get these things like I got a brother, too, and I got a dad, too, and I've gone through periods where I don't talk to them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and it all comes down to pride and all this weird shit.
Marc:And then, like, it's just interesting to me that in your intellectual mind, you can think, like, you know, we don't live that long.
Marc:Are we really going to do this?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:for the rest of our lives.
Marc:And you know what?
Marc:Sometimes the decision is, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With Lenny, I decided that.
Marc:I did.
Marc:It's so painful.
Guest:It was funny.
Guest:I wrote an acting class monologue about him and about something that happened when we were kids.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the final line of it was, you know, I realize now that things pass.
Guest:And then I said, I just wish I could tell Lenny.
Guest:That was the final line of it.
Guest:Well, my wife saw that and thought it was a cry for help.
Guest:So she emailed it to my brother, which then put me, you know, then now I said, I'm in a week.
Guest:I'm going to, I hated it because now I'm in a defensive stance instead of reaching out.
Guest:Now she went behind my back and sent it.
Guest:And then he wrote me back and he didn't even write me back in a way that's like, we should talk.
Guest:He just wrote, you can tell me anything, Mike.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, you can't even reach out well.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And then we tried.
Guest:We actually tried to stitch it together at that point.
Guest:But it's beyond repair.
Guest:I mean, dude, he lived in my apartment building.
Guest:And like I said, he had kids.
Guest:He has two girls.
Guest:I've never met them.
Guest:They would walk by my apartment and look in at me.
Guest:And they knew.
Guest:They fucking knew.
Marc:But isn't there heartache involved in that?
Marc:What are you going to do?
Guest:I mean, honestly.
Marc:I don't know you're going to make it okay, Mike.
Guest:No, you're not.
Guest:There's nothing you can do about it, man.
Guest:Some things you can't make okay.
Guest:You know that.
Guest:You know that.
Guest:I'm more disappointed I just lost my last brother.
Guest:I mean, the middle kid.
Guest:No, no, the second youngest.
Marc:He passed away?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:Well, he decided to jump the fence.
Guest:Like, we're done.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He made a decision, and now we're not talking.
Guest:All right, so this is two out of five.
Guest:Three out of five.
Marc:I don't talk to my young brother.
Guest:And do they talk to each other?
Guest:Well, my younger brother and my two youngest, they're together now.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:It's like in the internal struggle.
Guest:The anti-Mike contingent.
Guest:I don't think they're anti-Mike.
Guest:They're just pro-them and pro-nonsense.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I can't help but think that this is one of those equations where the common...
Guest:uh integer or whatever the word i'm looking for mathematically is you is me yeah i i but you've drawn a line mike well but but my brother andy you're a pariah you know you're ready to kick me the fuck out of here no i've asked around about you i i don't doubt it actually i you know i had friends like i said they and they all pat my peers passed me and i don't i'm in that weird limbo what do you mean past you i mean there's still your friends there's not is there a race going on
Marc:Is there a race going on?
Marc:Do you think that their job was like, they're like, like when they first got their big break or they're like, I beat Mike.
Marc:Fuck you, Mike.
Guest:I got a job.
Guest:And they were saying that a lot.
Guest:That's a fucking battle cry.
Guest:They got tired of saying it.
Guest:They said it so much.
Guest:Ah, fuck Mike.
Guest:Again, I win.
Marc:Well, what was it that you used to do?
Marc:Were you like me?
Marc:And were some part of you said, okay, I'm your friend.
Marc:I need help here.
Marc:But you didn't say it like that because you were too proud to say it, so you just drained them emotionally?
Guest:Yeah, I definitely drained them emotionally.
Guest:I'm a fucking mess.
Guest:And I'm lazy.
Guest:I'm a guy who settles.
Marc:But if you're so self-aware, is there any attempt?
Marc:No, it's not weird.
Marc:I mean, we get comfortable in even the worst of our patterns.
Marc:I mean, there is this notion that people tell you.
Marc:It's like, you know, people don't change.
Marc:They do, but it takes some vigilance.
Guest:I mean, it is sort of an effort to change.
Guest:Well, I want to change.
Guest:That's the show.
Guest:The theme of the show is essentially that I want to change when I'm not, you know, fighting with possums and fucking electrical, you know, engineers or whatever.
Marc:I have possums here.
Marc:What was your possum problem?
Guest:I have a graveyard job.
Guest:That's one of the reasons I was late today.
Guest:I apologize.
Marc:No.
Marc:You were sleeping?
Guest:No, I got four hours before I got here.
Guest:You mean a graveyard shift or you work at a graveyard?
Guest:Graveyard shift.
Guest:What am I at a graveyard shift at a graveyard?
Guest:How creepy is that?
Guest:That's pretty creepy.
Guest:Yeah, so I work late at night.
Guest:I work as a security guy at a parking garage.
Guest:It's a running theme on the show.
Guest:I call it Graveyardville because I hate it.
Guest:I hate that I do it.
Guest:I'm better than that.
Guest:Every time I have to do anything there, I punch a clock and you're like, dude, I should be talking for whatever.
Guest:Why don't you do something else?
Guest:Be well, I settle because and I need money now because now my wife just got laid off.
Guest:So I actually need this money now.
Guest:I have to fucking white knuckle this job to drag me out.
Marc:You say it with such confidence and such a sort of like, you know, decision, a sort of lack of emotion in your voice or like I settled.
Guest:And that's that.
Guest:Well, I don't like it.
Guest:Well, dude, I've been in the mix at shows.
Guest:I mean, I've had like four or five shows that I've been in the mix on and I actually thought I had a gig somewhere and then that falls through.
Marc:You know how it is.
Marc:Fucking worse, yeah.
Marc:So what were we getting at?
Marc:Possums?
Marc:Possums.
Guest:Yeah, I had a possum attack me.
Guest:A big one?
Guest:Literally, I'm sitting at the desk.
Marc:At the graveyard job.
Guest:Yes, and essentially where your door is, another from me to the door, another from the door to that distance is the parking garage, and I can see it.
Guest:Possum walks into my line of sight, big one.
Guest:He stops.
Guest:He's in the garage, and he looks at me.
Guest:And I'm looking at him, and I'm like, oh, that's hilarious, you know, wildlife.
Guest:And they waddle.
Guest:Yeah, and he starts to lope.
Guest:toward me like he's not scared of me right he turns he sees me makes eye contact and you'd think he'd book yeah no that weird like you know yeah what's gonna happen and he lopes right at me and uh and i may have overreacted a little bit mark because i panicked and lost my mind and ran around the desk and slammed the door and uh and i fully believe he knew he had me because then he
Guest:tried he just tried to get in he kept scratching the door and putting his little hands because they have hands yeah under the door oh and i'm peeking out the window at him like a lady and screaming eek you know i'm just making noises yeah and he stands he fucking horrible because they shit all over themselves yeah and he wouldn't leave yeah he fucking wouldn't leave mark he kept coming at me and uh and he's scraping the door and then he walks he starts walking around the lobby he owns the joint he fucking he climbs up on a regular chair that's there for people by the man he sits down he's just looking at me yeah
Guest:And, uh, and, uh, it was, so I did it on the show where it, he, you know, probably was only like five minutes, but it seemed like an hour being held hostage by a posse.
Guest:And I'm a guy who has, whenever I go anywhere, I have a plan to fight zombies.
Guest:Like when, yeah, I don't know if you're that guy, you're probably not, but, uh, I hadn't thought about it.
Marc:You know why Mike?
Marc:Cause zombies aren't fucking real.
Guest:Not yet.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:All right.
Guest:But when you walk into places, I always have a plan.
Guest:Like I, again, this is me.
Guest:I walk into the bank.
Guest:I play, who would I fuck at the bank?
Guest:and i think who i would play that all everywhere right and who would and why why just the bank well that's that's what i'm saying because i uh and i would fight like if i'm in a grocery store i'm like all right who would i have to hit first to get food yeah and then and then where would i have to oh this is still the zombie scenario no no this is people i thought you're like i need to procreate so the bank is the place who am i gonna fuck at the bank for children and who am i gonna have to fight for food at the supermarket
Marc:These are separate games.
Marc:I like your game.
Guest:I bring it all over one umbrella.
Marc:I have to repopulate.
Marc:I'll go to the bank to fucking tell her and we'll just sit on the cash until the zombies go away.
Guest:You are so advanced.
Marc:So these are separate games.
Marc:Yeah, they were.
Marc:Who do I get a kick?
Marc:Who's after I get a kick at the... Yeah, anywhere.
Guest:Everywhere I go, I think about who I'm going to have to fight and what I'm going to have to do to them and then who am I going to bang.
Guest:Really?
Marc:I'm at a different level where I'm thinking like, usually all I'm thinking when I'm looking at other people, it's like, oh my God, it's sad for everyone.
Yeah.
Marc:that that's really what it's come to i'm no longer threatened i'm no longer thinking like i wonder if they like you i'm like oh god are we all just tired yeah look at everyone how worn down they are exactly yeah even people that are like you know put you know who looks more worn down than anybody is people who spend half their lives trying to look better
Marc:oh yeah yeah like you know those 40 to 50 year old men who like you know exercise so much that they have this weird drawn look to them and they think like i've been the i'm in the best shape i've ever been in well you look like a fucking zombie yeah you look like you woke up as a regular 40 year old and you had to climb into a skin jumpsuit to come to the gym because it's like taut and hanging and oh i so want to be that guy
Guest:Don't you?
Guest:Well, because they don't see it.
Guest:They think any change is good.
Guest:It's like every stripper you see or every actress like Pam Anderson who just, hey, I'm going to get breast implants.
Guest:I'm going to take them out.
Guest:I'm going to put them in.
Guest:I'm going to take them.
Guest:They got a head full of bad wiring.
Guest:They don't know what the fuck is happening.
Marc:When do those ever look good?
Marc:I mean, you have to like the cartoonish nature of the objectified woman.
Marc:In order to like breast implants, you have to know, you have to be like, I'm into them.
Marc:I don't care if they're fake.
Marc:Look how big they are.
Marc:Look how perfect those implants are.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:But I don't even think it's the person liking them.
Guest:The person getting them is the one I'm concerned with because they just, again, they just keep changing themselves because it's, again, it's your head, man.
Guest:That's what the whole thing is.
Guest:Fat people or people who get plastic surgery, it's your fucking head.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:I got it in my family.
Marc:you know uh yeah yeah yeah i got uh you know my mom is you know not plastic surgery yeah she's not beyond that uh and you know a lot of people and then i have uh this girl i'm seeing thinks everybody has it do you know those people it's like they've had work done oh yeah really well it's not very good work i mean i mean i i mean it doesn't look like it did anything yeah i don't think they're close friends with the everybody's gay people yeah well that's true everybody's gay yeah oh yeah you didn't hear
Guest:He's gay.
Guest:No, he's totally gay.
Guest:He's so gay.
Guest:The internet thinks everyone's sucking cock according to the internet.
Guest:Everyone in the world.
Guest:Everyone's sucking cock and getting work done.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Are you a stripper guy?
Guest:I'm a vice guy.
Guest:I have anger stuff.
Guest:I just had a thing a couple weeks ago.
Guest:I wound up beating the shit out of a car in Hollywood because a guy called me out and he wouldn't get out of his car, so I just kneed the fuck out of his door and punched the shit out of the thing until they fucking peeled out and left.
Guest:I...
Guest:I'm trying to get that under control.
Guest:I don't want to be that guy.
Marc:Well, me too.
Marc:That's why I'm going this fucking thing at two.
Marc:Are you a guy that hits people?
Guest:Not in a while.
Guest:But did you?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I've hit all my brothers.
Guest:That's one of the reasons.
Guest:I'm the one guy.
Guest:Are you bigger than them?
Guest:I'm the Rosetta Stone of my brothers.
Guest:Well, they're all good-sized guys.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Scott was a little...
Guest:little guy.
Marc:But you're pretty fucking big.
Marc:You can't be a grown person running around hitting people.
Guest:When I was bouncing, you know what I mean?
Guest:It was a way to get, you know, that's why I like training.
Guest:I like training.
Guest:I trained MMA and I get to hit the bag and kick and throw people around and stuff like that.
Marc:You were a bouncer?
Guest:Oh yeah, for many years.
Guest:I bounced, you know, I did individual concert stuff but then at the House of Blues and the Tribidor and
Guest:Uh, yeah.
Guest:So I haven't in a while.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:I, you know, I actually thought about having to go back when I had no money, but I'm old and I can't fucking do that now.
Guest:You know, the second I'm at the, you know, Judas priest show and a guy spits in my face, forget it.
Guest:I won't stop punching until the cops come, you know, drag me away.
Guest:Bloody pulp.
Guest:Enjoy the show.
Guest:Not good at that.
Guest:You know, so I was the cool, I was the good, you know, I, I wasn't, I know I sound like a meathead dude.
Guest:I know it, but I really, I wasn't like a talking slower.
Marc:I would imagine.
Marc:I picture a meathead to be like, and then the thing happened.
Guest:I have anger and rage stuff.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I was telling you this.
Guest:When I was in Chicago, my friend Bert, who ran the Funny Bone, booked me.
Guest:And I was going to close the room.
Guest:It was my big attempt at starting to close stuff so I could start booking myself out.
Guest:Headlining.
Guest:This is three years ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not really, you know, my friend Mike Toomey, who's a brilliant comic out of Chicago, was there, and he could close in his sleep.
Guest:I mean, I've done the road with him and seen him do two different 50-minute sets at night.
Guest:He's that guy.
Guest:He's been doing it since he was 18.
Guest:He's brilliant.
Guest:So he was there as my middle, as a safety net, if I needed him.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I got on stage.
Marc:But how are you going to use a safety net if you've already started your set?
Marc:Are you going to bring him back on?
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Guest:What was the plan?
Guest:I guess he was just there as a security blanket to help me out or something.
Marc:Oh, like, yeah, he does his 20.
Guest:You can do this.
Guest:You do 40 and go, all right, Mike's coming back up.
Right.
Guest:he's gonna close it he's gonna take us home i'm gonna tag him in uh well i worked friday and he closed yeah and then saturday i said can i close and they said absolutely let's do that okay so um and it was a room where uh the stage was high up and the the people's heads were at your feet you know what i'm talking about yeah yeah yeah you're not it's not a comedy club club it's in a bar and it's a little high like a rock stage and they're sitting at those tall tables five foot maybe five feet something
Guest:So this is the problem I have.
Guest:I'm on stage, and I'm trying to bring podcast Mike, storytelling Mike, to the stage instead of topical one-liner bang-bang.
Guest:Tricky, yeah.
Guest:So I'm trying to do it there, and I'm trying to get them.
Guest:And, you know, my stories can be a little raw and rough, and, you know, it's a bar crowd.
Guest:They don't know who the fuck I am, so I'm having trouble winning them over or whatever.
Guest:And there's people in the far right corner, stage right, you know, my right.
Marc:Well, it's interesting that when you do that form,
Marc:You know, and they don't know where you're coming from.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like if you don't sort of set the stage with some jokes and you just break into that form, the I'm going to tell you stories about me form.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think their immediate reaction is like, what does he want from us?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are we supposed to just listen?
Guest:And, you know, is this a session for him?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And also I do a lot of asides and quick.
Guest:But if they're not buying what I'm selling and that, then you get the sweat going.
Guest:All right, so what happened?
Guest:Sorry to interrupt.
Guest:That's okay.
Guest:Far right corner, people won't stop talking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Four or five of them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They just talk and talk and talk.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm, you know, hey, you know, shut up.
Guest:Easy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And they wouldn't talk.
Guest:They talked all through Mike.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So they're talking through me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:finally i'm like hey shut the fuck up honestly shut i lose all pretense of jolly hey we're all here out of a good time yeah i just saw your eyes change and your eyes change and people know like you know not only did they not quite like you at all yet oh yeah now you're like that guy yeah we got problem can you shut the fuck up yeah
Guest:and that's my problem i don't i don't have the chops mark i never learned the chops because i'm in the middle for audience at work well i mean i can i can work the crowd but it's if if anybody crosses me they're getting just destroyed i'm setting a fire and everything's burning down and we're great whiting the entire bar yeah right yeah and all of a sudden the audience is going no you can't know man yeah yeah i'd not yeah i'm kenny moore hitting the guy with a guitar yeah yeah oh shit that wasn't cool i want my money back
Guest:so they won't stop talking and I finally tell them to shut the fuck up and then Mark I decide to walk on the tabletops out to where they are sure Matt that's funny there's some funny there listen the rest of the room is solidly behind you when you call out five guys and basically want to fight them holding the microphone like you know were they behind you
Guest:the crowd yeah oh no no oh no mark incorrect so you're stepping on tables i walk on the tables i said and you know and you're a big guy at this point right i'm i'm yeah this is six two you know and this is when i'm at the peak of lifting and so i'm kind of big up top stormy and because then it's again i always say this thing on my show how many minutes into the set were you 15 oh yeah yeah you got a lot of time to cover the
Guest:oh yes i do i got mike toomey's in the back warming up uh and i stomp out and i'm standing over them with the microphone basically at my you know in a fist at my side yeah you're gonna shut the fuck up honest i've talked to you how many fucking times shut the fuck up or get the fuck out like that thing and i blow dry all of them yeah and then they you know meekly just you know because what i really want them to do yeah is hit me
Guest:I want somebody to hit me.
Guest:I heard you like this.
Guest:Is this part of the vice?
Guest:I don't want it to be.
Guest:I don't want to be that guy.
Marc:Nobody wants to be addicted to heroin.
Marc:Are you sure about that?
Marc:No, it's fun at first.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I've heard the story.
Marc:I mean, the one episode I listened to was you waiting.
Marc:trying to get a guy to hit you yeah oh the marine that was an older guy doing yeah yeah yeah just that it's that thing where you can't you know why because that's what i'm saying i'm not a meathead who just flails uh i'm smart enough to wait to get hit but then you know i'm finishing everything you know what i mean i won't start i won't start anything but like if we were to go right into the guts of who you are and i'm not doing this because i get some sort of gimmick i do on my podcast is i'm trying to figure this stuff out for myself if i'm going to go into the guts of who i am what is that anger about why am i triggered with rage
Marc:immediately when i what does it come down to i want this now i'm i'm mad at me i i i dude i am i'm fucking mad at me because i haven't i've failed and and i've left myself but wait a minute let's go but isn't it more like okay i can i get that
Marc:You know, and I get that.
Marc:I'm mad at me.
Marc:But there's also the other part that you brought up before, which is like, you know, if somebody tells me they're going to do everything for me, I'll do it.
Marc:So there's some part of us that must be like five or six years old.
Marc:Why isn't anyone doing this for me?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then when no one does it, I'm a fucking asshole.
Marc:Somebody do it for me.
Marc:And then all you've got is like, you didn't do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's all you have left.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is you didn't do it.
Marc:But what about my mom?
Yeah.
Marc:Too late for that shit.
Marc:Doesn't matter.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:So we're all fixed?
Guest:We're done.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:This has worked out better than I thought it would.
Guest:Why don't you and I go to the bank and find out who we're going to fuck?
Guest:Yeah, for when the zombies come.
Guest:You've got a great little zombie compound here.
Guest:I did the layout already.
Guest:I would be in here, and you could actually broadcast looking for help.
Marc:Well, I'd have to get some things for the windows.
Guest:We've got to do that.
Guest:But while this could easily be converted, you could just tear that apart and put it up.
Marc:So that's what Mike and I are going to do.
Marc:We're going to make a zombie compound out of my garage.
Guest:And then I'm going to drive past it nine times and park.
Guest:Yeah, you go kick some ass at the grocery store and get us some food.
Marc:I'll go to the bank and kidnap the women and we should be all set.
Marc:It's your job to kick zombies' asses because I ain't no good at kicking asses.
Guest:I'm in.
Guest:You can radio for help.
Marc:I'm excited about it.
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:It's going to be great.
Marc:Now, okay, so let's get back to this notion.
Marc:Here's what I learned from doing the Jerusalem Syndrome.
Marc:and what what the new york times critic said and i think it's a it's accurate and i and i think it was if i was to do another one which i have and and i i kept this in mind is that when you see one man shows there there's there's going to be a theme or a through line or or there's going to be you know it's all built or either you can do it with like you set a stage with one story and then you tell other stories coming back to the
Marc:to the story that's thread throughout the show, which I think you do on your show, which would seem to be the natural structure for you, where you start out like, here's the main story of the show, and you start that story, and then you go back.
Guest:Yeah, what I did with mine was I bookended.
Guest:I did a story that had a resolution, and then I had an opposite resolution in the final story with the same characters involved, that kind of thing.
Guest:So I thought that would be enough.
Yeah.
Marc:No, I'm sure it's like the thing about us and I'm not saying this is some sort of in grandiose way.
Marc:The one thing I know I can do is hold people's attention.
Marc:I know I can engage an audience for up to two and a half hours.
Marc:You just said we can do that and they will feel great and engaged and they will have an experience.
Marc:But for something to be theater, this is what the guy in the New York Times said, like that there was no transformation.
Right.
Marc:that in order for something to be a piece of theater, whether you respect a three-act structure or not, is the main character transformed at all at the end?
Marc:Which is an interesting question.
Marc:That does something happen to where you start here and now there's a transformation of some kind.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Which I think is interesting.
Marc:But what if you in your real life have not transformed?
Marc:Yeah, but I don't think that's true.
Marc:I think that within each story, that if you were to really look at your stories, some of your best stories, something happens.
Marc:Like even the story about the Marine.
Marc:You wanted to get hit.
Marc:He didn't get hit.
Marc:And then when you apologized, he didn't give you what you wanted.
Marc:But you sat with that.
Marc:So that's different than the guy that was like, that just fucking hit me.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:There's I guess there's there's elements of redemption in in all my stories.
Guest:And I'm also it's so funny.
Guest:Karen, when I first started the show, I told her I warned her.
Guest:I said, look, I'm going to talk about everything.
Guest:I mean, I'm not going to fuck around here.
Guest:And I said, you know, but you will never be the fool.
Guest:You will never be the student because in real life she's not.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:She's constant.
Guest:She's the one constant.
Guest:She's the hero.
Guest:And she's saved me from myself way too many times for me to even count.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So in my show and in my stories, there's an element of redemption, even if I'm a fucking buffoon.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I am redeemed somewhat.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But I'm saying is in the overall picture, though, because I filled three years with stories of me fucking up.
Guest:How much have I changed and how much in my one man show can I then be like you said, make the journey and at the end be like I had an epilogue in my show, you know, because the final story was 30 minutes of heavy.
Guest:yeah and uh and then i had a little five minutes you know i had a little sorbet of music and then i came on and said hey you know i'm trying not to be this person anymore and and uh you know i want to prove that my wife hasn't made a mistake and i want to be you know so there's an epilogue at the end um so i i don't know whether or not i'm redeemed in in the journey and that's what i need i need help i mean i need someone you know i need a director i need whoever to find it we'll find a director i know i mean you know it's hard mark because people don't
Marc:I didn't find one for my last show and it was probably a mistake.
Marc:I did a show about the divorce and it was heavy and it was good.
Marc:And I was really sort of building it on my own.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, uh, you know, I just didn't, I didn't want to go through the whole rigmarole of, of, of where you got to find somebody to trust, somebody you can work with and somebody who you can listen, like, like directing you would be, you know, it might be physically, um, you know, it could be scary.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I would think.
Marc:I mean, I would imagine that.
Marc:Like the woman who directed Jerusalem Syndrome, she had to sit me down and go, you can't, that whole chunk's got to go.
Marc:And then she had to be able to take, you know, fuck you, who the fuck are you to tell me?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then there's crying and then it becomes sort of a marriage.
Marc:So I guess what I'm saying, don't get a woman to direct.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Try to find a large man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With some...
Marc:Some martial arts degree.
Guest:All right, good.
Guest:Yeah, that's a good idea.
Guest:I've talked to people today.
Guest:There's a guy who I respect and has always been supportive of me and what I do.
Guest:And I think that's, to me, the hardest part, finding someone who knows what I do.
Guest:Because when I try to explain to them, I do a one-man show every week, basically a podcast, and it's over an hour long of me just talking.
Guest:And they'll look at you like...
Guest:I've had people write me notes and say, look, I've got to stop listening to your show.
Guest:It's pathetic.
Guest:You're just talking alone in a room.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And you say, well, aren't you hearing the good parts of it?
Guest:You're not pulling that?
Guest:But then you have to understand, it's not for everybody.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Well, yeah, and it's also like it's a specific sort of format, and it's a specific type of radio that we're doing or broadcasting that we're doing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And those people, I just got a little bit of shitty press.
Marc:on a show I did with a guy going like, I hope this guy finds his medium.
Marc:Oh, dude.
Marc:That's what I'm saying.
Marc:It doesn't end.
Marc:Does it end?
Marc:It never ends.
Marc:Yeah, but on some level, I know now that I'm not for everybody.
Marc:And you've got to know that about yourself.
Marc:I mean, we're not for everybody.
Marc:So if we really know that, then of course it's never going to end.
Marc:And then the best you can say, or the worst you really can say is, well, that guy doesn't get it.
Guest:apparently he's well adjusted apparently everything's working out for him and then it turns into the other thing and he can go fuck himself who the fuck is that where's that email let's read it on the air yeah yeah you know but then but then people who like you were like why do you focus on that i always talk i'll be in the show and i'll talk about how long the show is and stuff and i get constantly letters going we love your long shows do them longer we want i've had people that are like you should do a show every day yeah i'm like do you understand i'd be dead oh no i'd be dead
Guest:I talked by myself in circles.
Guest:Before my one-man show on Saturday, I actually sat in a room in the green room and said, these people love you.
Guest:These people love you.
Guest:They want you to be you.
Marc:Stop.
Marc:Just these people love you.
Guest:Go be you.
Marc:But that's hard.
Marc:That's even hard, though, because if you don't love yourself, I mean, you're already working at it handicapped.
Guest:True, but I go, but I also think that's the dichotomy is I, you know, I hate myself and I hate what I've done to my life and why I'm not successful and why I'm in a grave job and I failed my wife and all these different things.
Guest:But at the same time, I think I'm a fucking genius.
Guest:I mean, I'm like, I'm always like, dude, nobody can do what I fucking do.
Guest:I mean, I'm ridiculous.
Guest:And I just need to marry the two or have one of them beat the shit out of the other and finally give myself over to one of them and become that person.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's a tough one because if you're just all the guy who thinks he's a genius, that's equally as irritating as... I think the dichotomy might be necessary.
Guest:Yeah, the yin needs the yang, I guess.
Marc:Yeah, if you commit to one or the other, we're in trouble.
Guest:Maybe I go straight genius.
Guest:I grow a mustache and I wear a top hat.
Guest:I go completely whiff and poof with it.
Marc:Yeah, people will be like, Mike's changed, man.
Marc:Since the mustache, it just isn't the same.
Yeah.
Guest:He's all full of himself.
Guest:He's got confidence.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:In your book, you talk about how you thought you were going to come to Hollywood and be a movie star.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I thought that too.
Guest:Like when I was a kid, I was like, even then I knew, I'm like, oh, well, I got something here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I did a thing once.
Guest:I was at an amusement park with my mom and aunt who came out to visit the first year I'm in L.A.
Guest:in 88.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, yeah, 88, 87, 90?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:Who cares?
Guest:It was yesterday.
Guest:And I did a thing where they pulled me up on stage to interact with one of those fucking studio comics.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And afterwards, people from ABC approached me and they gave me their card.
Guest:They went to have a meeting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I actually woke my roommate up and I go, it begins.
Guest:21 years old, here we fucking go.
Guest:And 22 years later, I'm talking to you in a garage about how shitty everything is.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'm in the same boat.
Guest:When I read that in your book, I was like, wow.
Guest:Movie star.
Marc:Movie star.
Marc:But as I get older, I don't see myself...
Marc:as a failure necessarily, but because, like, if I really thought about the people that I know that were ambitious enough to be calculating about how they manage their career, right, how they, you know, even just acknowledging what your talent is.
Marc:I mean, like, because this is a town that, you know, show business is fueled by idiots being sold by people who claim they know who they are and how they fit in.
Marc:The demons.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:I'm not spogged.
Marc:That's vaporized disappointment.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Fucking great.
Marc:Is that life?
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:But but like as I get older, I realize that the guys that were calculating and realize their limitations and said, I'm this guy.
Marc:I do this thing, you know, and it's in and I'm going to make it so it's as appealing to as many people as possible.
Marc:And then I'm going to try to nurture that character and sell it.
Marc:I never did that.
Marc:I would, I just demanded attention.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like I'm literally like, I will be like most of my early career was fueled by spite because I was, I was, I had a big manager and I'd see other guys that he managed getting things.
Marc:And I would call up and go, why the fuck is he doing that?
Marc:What?
Marc:How come I'm not doing that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Get me in to do that.
Marc:Literally.
Marc:I was fueled by that.
Marc:And then I do it.
Marc:And a lot of times the opportunities I did get, I wasn't ready for him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's the worst thing about it.
Marc:It's like, look at that dude.
Marc:So you just, you were just sort of me, me, me.
Marc:I want mine.
Marc:I want mine.
Marc:And you couldn't even show up for work because you didn't have the fucking tools to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You showed up for work with no toolbox.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You, you want something so bad and then you get the shot and you don't know what the fuck to do with it.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that, and then it keeps coming back to this when we talk about it.
Marc:It's childish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:40-year-old boy.
Guest:That's who I am, dude.
Guest:I'm a fucking idiot.
Guest:I can't get out of my own way.
Guest:I'm a guy who lives in his own fucking skull.
Marc:I don't know if we're idiots, and I don't know if you're an idiot.
Marc:I do think at some point we have to feel the sadness necessary to let go of certain childish expectations, quit beating the shit out of ourselves, but I don't know what the hell we'd do.
Marc:I don't know why I keep calling myself... I don't know why I keep putting myself in the same boat as you.
Guest:Do you think we're somewhere?
Guest:Similar?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I think that's one of the reasons why people kept contacting you.
Guest:Because I'll be honest with you, people contacted me.
Guest:They were like, you got to go on Marc Maron's show.
Guest:And I got to go to therapy.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Well, I just finished mine.
Guest:Are we good?
Guest:I think we're great, man.
Guest:It's a great time.
Guest:I'm so happy, and I'm looking forward to having melon balls with Grandma Goldie's melon baller.
Marc:Oh, you really read the book.
Marc:I'll show you the melon baller.
Marc:I don't have any melon balls.
Guest:That was such a great line.
Marc:I have the melon baller.
Marc:I literally had it because I have a new one because Grandma Goldie's is all rusted out.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:But the new one broke, and I'm like, I guess I'm going to have to, how bad could the rust be?
Marc:That's time travel.
Marc:Well, it was great talking to you.
Marc:The 40-year-old boy is the podcast.
Marc:Mike Schmidt's been my guest.
Wow.
Marc:Was anything solved?
Marc:Are we better?
Marc:Is it good?
Marc:It was great talking to Mike.
Marc:I hope his fans appreciate that.
Marc:It was nice to meet him, have that conversation.
Marc:Again, congratulations to all you former possessors of narcissistic personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder and paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder and dependent personality disorder.
Marc:You are now free.
Marc:And all of you, please, go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:Get yourself some Just Coffee at JustCoffee.coop or go to the link at WTFPod.com.
Marc:Get some of that WTF blend.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:And they kicked me a few shekels, as you can as well.
Marc:What else do I have to say to you?
Marc:I just watched Sofia Coppola's movie.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:Somewhere?
Marc:Is that what it's called?
Marc:I liked it.
Marc:She don't make movies like Americans.
Marc:She makes movies like them French people.
Marc:And it's nice.
Marc:It's lyrical.
Marc:It's poetic.
Marc:She holds frame.
Marc:She lets actors work.
Marc:She lets you sort of kind of sit with it.
Marc:I thought it was a beautiful film.
Marc:I didn't love the ending.
Marc:No one just leaves a Ferrari.
Marc:Ooh, spoiler.
Marc:Sorry.
Marc:It's not really that kind of movie.
Marc:I mean, if you're actually worried about a spoiler on that movie, your expectations are bizarre.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I think that's it.
Marc:As I said, the first 50 will be up on iTunes soon.
Marc:And please take care of yourself, former narcissists.