Episode 1262 - Melanie Vesey
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:I hope you're holding up.
Marc:Hope you're okay.
Marc:Getting through it.
Marc:Muddling.
Marc:Hope you're not sick.
Marc:Hope your family's alright.
Marc:How is your family?
Marc:How are the kids?
Marc:How's your mom?
Marc:How's your dad?
Marc:Did he get those tests turn out okay?
Marc:What's going on with that?
Marc:Is the kid's foot okay?
Marc:Did the fever go down?
Marc:Where are we at?
Marc:Is that soup?
Marc:Who are you?
Marc:What happened to you?
Marc:Why are you talking to me like that?
Marc:Who do you think I am?
Marc:Who do you think you are?
Marc:It is a sad week.
Marc:Norm MacDonald has passed away of cancer, which he had apparently for a long time and didn't tell the public about it.
Marc:Nor does it seem he told many people close to him.
Marc:I did ask around just out of curiosity if anyone knew that he was ill.
Marc:It doesn't really matter.
Marc:He's passed away.
Marc:And it's tragic and horrible because he was too young.
Marc:And not unlike every time a past guest dies, we post the episode.
Marc:We take it out from behind the paywall and post the episode as we did with Norm the day before yesterday.
Marc:You should know that the talk with Norm was one of the best talks ever.
Marc:of any talk I've done on this podcast.
Marc:And at the time, I was so thrilled about it.
Marc:Because I didn't really know Norm, and I'd made assumptions about Norm from the way he handled himself publicly and on stage.
Marc:So I didn't really know what to expect, and I think I expected it to be a difficult conversation.
Marc:But it was loose, it was funny, it was deep, it was smart.
Marc:It went all over the place.
Marc:We talked books, we talked comics, we talked spirituality, we talked God, death.
Marc:We talked about it all, and I just couldn't believe it happened.
Marc:And I remember calling my producer and just saying, like, we got to get this up now as if it was urgent because I thought it was so great and so surprising and so connected.
Marc:And now...
Marc:Tragically, in terms of why we are reposting it and why it's getting attention again, it is still all those things.
Marc:I think it's a rare glimpse into a part of Norm that he didn't share much.
Marc:And I'm just so I'm grateful that we have these episodes when people that people love pass away.
Marc:We do it almost immediately upon hearing about the passing because it reconnects you with that person or connects you for the first time in a very deep way, in a very human way.
Marc:And in the midst of that grief of losing somebody.
Marc:that you looked up to or you loved or from a distance, obviously, a public person.
Marc:It's nice to have that balance so you can really kind of inform your grief with the humanity of the person and have a moment of celebrating the life.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:So that's up.
Marc:Also, on Monday, we put up this amazing conversation with Tim Reed, who was originally in a comedy team with Tom Dreesen back in the 70s, the first black man in a white man comedy team.
Marc:He went on to be on WKRP as Venus Flytrap and also Frank's Place and just hundreds of others, it seems, TV shows.
Marc:But you don't want to miss that conversation either.
Marc:It was a great conversation.
Marc:Life is stupid and sad.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:But we keep plugging away, don't we?
Marc:Stupid and sad.
Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Melanie Vesey.
Marc:She's a comic.
Marc:And also like she would I didn't really know this, I guess.
Marc:Maybe I did.
Marc:She because I did her podcast.
Marc:She's a promotional consultant.
Marc:And I've known her for a long time.
Marc:And she has this podcast, Promotional Rescue, which I've been on.
Marc:But when I met her, it was like way back right when I got sober.
Marc:And she was just lit up, man.
Marc:I think she's got a few more years than me, sober-wise.
Marc:We talk about it.
Marc:But when I first got sober, what was that, 99 years?
Marc:Going to those meetings, she just was this little, like, she was bouncing off the walls, man.
Marc:She had this blonde mohawk in my recollection.
Marc:She knew my ex-wife, my second ex-wife, who got me sober, Mishnah.
Marc:And she was just part of the crew, and I've known her for that long.
Marc:It's so odd, man, how you hold people in this place.
Marc:To where you first met them, you know?
Marc:And I do it all the time.
Marc:She moved out here, I think, a little before Mishnah and I moved out here.
Marc:She used to drive around in this fucking smoking the bandit type of Trans Am with the Firebird on the top.
Marc:And Mishnah was driving around in this old Fiero.
Marc:Just kind of swaggering chicks, man.
Marc:But the whole thing about holding someone in your memory and...
Marc:And not taking into mind that they've had a an entire life, even when listening to that Norm MacDonald thing and talking to Norm MacDonald.
Marc:And I didn't know him.
Marc:You know, we'd met a couple of times, but that was the first conversation we'd ever had.
Marc:But weirdly, I was with him when his first letterman.
Marc:Aired in his hotel room because Caroline Ray, who knew him from Canada, I was hanging out with her and we went up there to see him.
Marc:And he just was face down on the bed as he did his stand up on television for the first time on David Letterman.
Marc:And I remember that so clearly.
Marc:That was the first impression.
Marc:There's some part of my brain.
Marc:That holds those moments of of the first time you meet somebody or or see somebody when it's memorable, that first impression.
Marc:People just stay there.
Marc:And we've all had like at least five lives since then.
Marc:I mean, I really think about the live thing about, you know, who the fuck was that guy?
Marc:Who was I?
Marc:Do you ever think that when you think about things you've been through in your life?
Marc:I don't know how all over the place your life was.
Marc:I guess that makes a difference because.
Marc:If you if you did travel a lot or move to a lot of different places or do a lot of different things or go through a lot of shit, I guess we all do.
Marc:Sometimes it does feel like some other person did that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So many lives.
Marc:Like anytime anyone asks me about when I started out as a comic, I do not know how I did what I did.
Marc:I do not know how that kid, that angry, sweaty, fully compulsive, out of his mind guy at 21 or 22 drove around and did one nighters in New England.
Marc:I don't know how it I do know.
Marc:You know what it is?
Marc:And I'm just thinking this now because I was thinking about it, about, you know, what happens in the middle of crisis when people do superhuman things, when people when you just all of a sudden whatever is happening in the present is so devastating, but requires immediate action and attention.
Marc:You just do it.
Marc:When you think about could I do this or could I do that?
Marc:A lot of times you're like, I could never do that.
Marc:But when the shit goes down,
Marc:You can do it because you don't have a choice.
Marc:And I think I live my life like that a lot of times.
Marc:I'm pretty good in a crisis in terms of like showing up.
Marc:I don't freak out.
Marc:I freak out thinking about a crisis, but I don't freak out in a crisis.
Marc:And I just think that most of my life early on that I was so filled with fucking fury and panic and, you know, compulsive need to do stand up and to get places and to try to figure it out that I did it.
Marc:And I bombed a lot, but I showed up and I did it.
Marc:So I think that's why the memories are weird.
Marc:I think that's why sometimes when we look back and we're like, who the fuck was that person that did that?
Marc:Well, he was in full fucking crisis all the fucking time, terrified out of his mind and throwing himself on stage at pubs and bars and grills and hotel ballrooms all over the New England area for for locals.
Marc:How is that?
Marc:Just talking about that.
Marc:I'm like, oh, my God, that gets me sweating.
Marc:Just talking about it.
Marc:Full trauma all the time.
Marc:Full on panic.
Marc:But it wasn't panic.
Marc:It was just fear.
Marc:I forced myself into horrendously uncomfortable situations that I could embarrass myself profoundly without.
Marc:Almost every night.
Marc:That's my training.
Marc:So how does that not feel like another person?
Marc:And I think that for the first probably 25 years of my comedy career, I lived in that zone, constantly terrified of rejection, but pushing back on that fear with fury and trying to build something entertaining out of that angry fear.
Marc:Where's that CD?
Marc:Oh, that would be the first three of them, if you're curious.
Marc:Not sold out, tickets still available, and final engagement.
Marc:Angry fear.
Marc:Hilarious.
Marc:So tonight I'm in St.
Marc:Louis, and some of those people are going to get an intimate experience.
Marc:Yeah, come to the late shows for the intimate experience, St.
Marc:Louis.
Marc:You've got to be vaxxed.
Marc:You've got to have proof of vaxx, or you've got to have proof of test because I don't want my people to get the Delta.
Marc:I don't want to get the Delta.
Marc:I don't want to spread the Delta.
Marc:I'm going to swab my nose today.
Marc:I'm actually looking forward to it.
Marc:I panic about St.
Marc:Louis.
Marc:I panic about Missouri because I'm angry about the country.
Marc:But the last time I was there, I had a nice time.
Marc:It was once a glorious city, one of the great American cities.
Marc:And I guess on some level it still is.
Marc:But...
Marc:Much of what's surrounding it, not great.
Marc:Not great.
Marc:So Melanie Vesey is a comedian.
Marc:I don't know when she became a comedian.
Marc:I will talk to her about that.
Marc:She was an actress, but I can't believe I've known her since I've gotten sober.
Marc:So 20 some odd years.
Marc:And here we are.
Marc:Isn't it wild when you've known people that long?
Marc:Her stand-up special is called Wild Animals on Amazon Prime Video.
Marc:And her podcast is called Promotional Rescue.
Marc:And we're going to get into it.
Marc:And it's going to get deep.
Marc:Because that's who we are.
Marc:This is me and Melanie Vesey.
Guest:My wife's dealing with all of this permitting stuff because she's opening a restaurant downtown.
Marc:In your house?
Guest:No, but permitting is like a real big deal.
Marc:No, yeah.
Marc:I mean, that's how I think it's a racket on some level, but you have to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What does she do?
Marc:Where is it going to be?
Marc:Like in the new fancy part?
Guest:Arts district.
Guest:And it's called Detroit Vassies, which is... Your name?
Guest:Well, it's her name.
Guest:She took my name.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So her name's Detroit?
Guest:Well, her middle name.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It's a family name.
Guest:It's a crazy family name.
Marc:Is she from Michigan, too?
Guest:No.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:In the 70s, my stepmom changed her middle name to Dina Detroit.
Marc:So what they're OK.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And she married my dad.
Guest:So she became Dina Detroit Vesey.
Guest:She had my brothers.
Guest:They were Nick Detroit Vesey, Joe Detroit Vesey.
Guest:When I had my son, he became Harrison Detroit Vesey.
Guest:Then when I married my wife, she became Aaron Detroit Vesey.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Really.
Guest:So when we were deciding on, well, she was deciding on the name of the restaurant and I was like, let's do something really unique, but kind of cool.
Guest:And Detroit Vessies really kind of popped out.
Guest:And so that's going to be the name of it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:She took your name when you got married.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm the dude.
Marc:You're the dude.
Guest:I am.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, fuck.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were you always a dude?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Historically?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Even with dudes, I'm the dude.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It creates a lot of problems.
Marc:Because I remember, I was trying to think when I first met you, and I feel like it's in and around the second and second street meeting, and at that time, you had a big blonde mohawk...
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:My hair was blonde, but not a mohawk.
Guest:I didn't get a mohawk until after I moved to LA.
Marc:Is that true?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Are you sure?
Guest:You maybe felt like I had a big blonde mohawk.
Marc:Well, no, I just remember meeting you because you knew Mishnah from the places.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:From before she knew me.
Guest:Yes, a little bit, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So what is your story?
Marc:Because I remember then, like I've missed big chunks of it.
Marc:I remember then that you were an actress, you had been in a movie, but then you got stabbed or shot.
Guest:I got shot.
Marc:Right, okay, so...
Marc:Where'd you grow up?
Marc:Because I saw you when I was in Detroit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're from Detroit.
Guest:Originally, yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like you grew up in Detroit.
Guest:A suburb of Detroit called Royal Oak, which is like- Right, there's a theater there I did.
Guest:Yeah, no, great.
Guest:And Mark Ridley's Comedy Castle is there.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Michigan and Detroit has a great scene for everything because it's cool enough where people get really good at what they do, but not interesting enough where they get distracted into doing other things like great musicians, great comedians, great, great people come out of Michigan and Detroit.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I mean, every time I go there and I have gone there in the past, it didn't seem like it was a great scene.
Marc:It always seemed a little beat up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which I love.
Guest:I love a gritty sitch.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:And, you know, people learn their shit and usually move out.
Marc:But what'd you do?
Marc:So was your dad in the automotive business?
Guest:No.
Guest:My parents were divorced before I was one years old.
Guest:It was early 70s.
Guest:They were probably too young.
Guest:My dad was a photographer.
Marc:So you're the youngest?
Guest:I'm the only of my mom and dad.
Guest:But then my brothers are half-brothers, my dad and my stepmom.
Marc:Okay, got it.
Guest:And then my dad moved to New York City.
Marc:Photographer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Fashion.
Guest:Tabletop.
Guest:Beautiful stuff.
Guest:He's a genius.
Guest:I think you guys would have gotten along famously.
Marc:Was he like a scene guy?
Guest:Also very into like music and he played guitar.
Guest:I think you guys would have been very good friends.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:A fucking, yeah.
Marc:Oh yeah?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I really do.
Marc:So he was an art photographer?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Um, so like, you know, whenever you're, whenever you see product, perfume bottles, uh, you know, things like that.
Marc:Um, that was his thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I wanted to be a dancer.
Guest:So I left Royal Oak and moved to New York.
Marc:A dancer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you grew up without him around, but with your stepdad and like three brothers.
Guest:No, the brothers were born after I moved to New York.
Guest:So what?
Guest:Dad, dad and stepmom had two kids.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Way later.
Guest:So I'm 21 years older than my brother, Joe, and I'm 14 years older than my brother, Nick.
Guest:So I was essentially like an only child for a super long time.
Marc:But were you like, like, where does the disaster start?
Guest:uh i would have to say around five i feel like five i came to in the trailer we were living in in mount clemens michigan yeah i had a serious moment of clarity and i was like five you are alone yeah that was it like good luck with this like i like it's almost like i came to like in a dream you know like when you realize you're dreaming and i was like oh this is gonna be rough right and then why did you why did you think that
Guest:I just knew for you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Not because of the situation per se.
Guest:No, I think the situation was its own challenge.
Guest:You were in a trailer action.
Guest:Well, my mom, you know, was married, you know, many times and you know, there's a lot of turbulent, you know, stuff there.
Guest:She had a kid at 1920, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then she, it was like, was it one of those situations where weird dudes?
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:Coming and going.
Guest:Um, yeah.
Guest:A few stepdads that I don't even remember, but one amazing stepdad, Stephen.
Guest:He was fantastic.
Marc:So you got one good one?
Guest:One good one, but he died at 37.
Guest:He just dropped dead one day.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:While they were married?
Guest:No, they got divorced.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:It's just like an Al-Anon chair, like just so much drama.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But that's good.
Marc:I mean, it's not good, but it's good stories.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Oh, no.
Guest:Great stories.
Marc:But you have to process all this.
Guest:A lot of processing still processing.
Marc:Do we ever stop processing?
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:I think you should keep processing.
Marc:I also feel like I'm starting to wonder.
Guest:I mean, maybe right now, like I'll be 50 in a matter of like, I don't know, 15 days.
Guest:It seems like.
Guest:No, it actually.
Guest:And I'm really to the point now where I'm stopping trying to fix it.
Guest:I think it's mostly just acceptance that like, oh, this is the way that it is now.
Marc:Yeah, and also I started to realize, because I've been dry as fuck, but I'm okay experimenting with the dry as fuckness.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because I don't have the obsession to drink, but I do know that when I'm dry, my brain's pretty active.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So I'm willing to make that trade-off sometimes.
Marc:But I had this realization the other day that if you didn't feel good or if you felt awkward in your childhood, right, for whatever reason, bad parenting, whatever, if you felt uncomfortable being you, every memory is going to be trauma-based.
Marc:Every memory is going to be shame-based.
Marc:Every memory is going to be embarrassing.
Guest:You're right on.
Marc:And I, like, I never saw it that way until, and I, of course, I'm like, I think I'm the first one who thought of that.
Marc:And someone should apply it to treatment.
Guest:You were like, who could I call?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Where's the guys writing the book?
Marc:Because I got something to add.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And, like, it really blew me away that, like, and so, and in addition to that, in terms of, like, processing, you know,
Marc:It's all trauma.
Marc:It has to all be processed as trauma.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yes, Mark.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And it's funny because I got it.
Guest:It's so funny that you're saying this because because I think I'm realizing how much I actually do suffer.
Guest:I've been diagnosed with complex PTSD because I have childhood trauma compounded with adult trauma.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As do you.
Marc:Right.
Guest:No, I mean, traumatic events.
Marc:I never got shot.
Guest:But you had a partner who died.
Guest:I mean, you've had other things.
Guest:That's real fucking shit.
Marc:And also like very like emotionally fucked up abusive relationship.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:I mean, you've had friends die.
Guest:I mean, you know, from what I know of the outside looking at your life, you have adult trauma.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Compounded with that, that starts to give you the symptoms of PTSD, irritability, unable to concentrate, you know, the, you know, having a hard time, like focusing.
Guest:Look, I'm even having a hard time focusing now.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, yeah.
Guest:And also, too, everything is colored.
Guest:And I think what's hard sometimes when I talk to people is that if I look at my life, if I look at the pictures, I think that's why I take a lot of pictures of my life.
Guest:I can then see it from the outside.
Guest:I'm like, bitch, you lived.
Guest:You had a great time.
Guest:Look at that outfit.
Guest:Look at that hair.
Guest:Look at that.
Guest:To me, registering in my body, I cannot usually access joy.
Guest:I can't.
Marc:I can't either.
Marc:Me neither.
Marc:And also, not great with the accepting, receiving love or giving it selflessly.
Guest:Same, same.
Guest:And I have a beautiful... A lot of acting as if going on.
Guest:I have a beautiful, wonderful, amazing, fantastic, gorgeous wife who loves the fuck out of me.
Marc:And a good kid.
Guest:And an amazing kid.
Guest:I have to sometimes be like, accept their love.
Guest:I have to let it come in.
Guest:And it's not the easiest thing for me.
Marc:No, I built arguments for myself to sort of somehow rationalize or defend a position around like joy is not necessary.
Marc:Like it's overrated.
Marc:It's not a real emotion.
Marc:It's our amateurs.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's uncomfortable.
Marc:Why would anybody want it?
Marc:And then you realize it's not uncomfortable for most people.
Marc:Losers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Also, too, I feel like for my identity, my fear sometimes of even giving up some of that stuff and becoming like the hole in the donut.
Guest:So much of like, what would I be?
Marc:That's so funny, though.
Marc:How long have you been sober?
Guest:27 years.
Marc:So you're still worried about the hole in the donut thing?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Fuck yeah.
Marc:That's fucking nuts.
Yeah.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:There's not.
Guest:My brain is fundamentally.
Guest:And I don't say this to be like, I'm broken.
Guest:Like, bitch, it's broken.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I'm super sorry.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:But the donut hole thing is no longer applicable at 50.
Guest:I think it's just maybe like, you know, the fear of like, I'm going to lose my edge or I'm going to like whatever.
Marc:But what does even that mean?
Marc:I mean, that's the weird thing.
Marc:I mean, but what's going to happen is some of the shit that you think is important, like your edge, will not be so important anymore.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:I mean, my really good friend Melissa is like, Melanie, being cool is going to kill you.
Guest:Like, fucking snap out of it.
Guest:But yeah, you know, I think it's just old stuff.
Guest:concepts that once kept me going and probably kept me going at a point when I hated it too and then those things don't work however it's my opinion that I've never been able to get rid of them and then there they are and then they pop up yeah they become like you know I get that too but it's
Marc:Let's fill in some blanks.
Marc:So you're going through a parade of stepfathers.
Marc:One good one who died.
Guest:So great.
Marc:And then you move, you run away.
Marc:Do you run away?
Marc:No, no.
Guest:When I was young, I wanted to become a dancer because I saw Pinky Tuscadero on Happy Days.
Guest:And for whatever reason, I was like, I want to be her.
Marc:You know what's been good for dancers?
Marc:TikTok, I think.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:But, I mean, I haven't danced in years and years.
Guest:I could.
Guest:And I have done some kind of dancey TikToks.
Marc:But, like, I always wondered who the fuck would be a dancer and why.
Marc:And now, like, TikTok has answered that question.
Marc:Because, like, I know it's one of these things, like, I want to be a dancer.
Marc:But every time someone says that, I'm like, where are they using dancers other than Vegas?
Marc:Or what kind of job is that?
Guest:You work at a ballet company, like a modern dance company, Alvin Ailey, Martha Graham.
Marc:Okay, so that's like 10 people get to do that.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:I've only chosen very specific careers to which are almost impossible to succeed at.
Marc:Well, that keeps the shame going, doesn't it?
Marc:Sure, why not?
Guest:But I did well, you know what I mean?
Marc:Did you dance well?
Guest:It is truly like my first and greatest gift.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were you a natural?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It is like when music comes on, it's very difficult for me not to move.
Guest:It's very difficult for me not to feel that from the inside.
Marc:Did you train?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I went to Juilliard.
Guest:I danced.
Guest:I studied at Alvin Ailey when I was young.
Guest:When he was alive, I got to see Alvin Ailey working with the dancers.
Marc:How old were you, like 19 years old?
Guest:No, when I was at Ailey, I was probably like 12, 13.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I would go in the summers, I would dance there.
Guest:Then I went to the Interlochen Arts Academy, which is, I went to the camp and the school, which is the best hands down years of my life.
Marc:So your mom and your various step...
Marc:your real dad was sort of like, this is what she wants.
Marc:We're going to make it happen for her.
Guest:They supported it when you were a kid.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I got kind of like an athlete's life.
Guest:It was like, dance is the most important thing.
Guest:We don't care if you can read.
Guest:I'm also Gen X. Parents weren't really around.
Guest:They weren't home.
Guest:They would come home, take me to dance class.
Marc:They were doing their thing.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Very much their thing.
Marc:Yeah, what was that?
Guest:Being absorbed in their own concepts, lives, dreams.
Marc:Not too much booze or drugs?
Guest:Both sides of the family have a lot of addiction.
Marc:It's weird when you have to raise yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think that it's a, I feel like it's a, it is an asset.
Guest:It's made me very focused, very good at what I do.
Guest:It's making me incredible, made me incredibly driven.
Guest:The defect, however, is that control and being hypervigilant is horrible to the humans around you.
Marc:Hyper vigilant.
Marc:How's that play out?
Guest:Just like super aware of everything and like pushing really, really hard towards everything to the point of exhaustion, to the point of madness.
Marc:Are you saying you tried too hard?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:I'm sitting here with orange hair.
Guest:I didn't want to say anything.
Marc:When I saw you get out of the car, I'm like, what are we doing now?
Guest:What's happening with her now?
Guest:It's always a page turner, you know?
Guest:Jesus.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, but like I said, it's a defect, but I also see it as an asset.
Marc:Sure, it's a survival thing.
Marc:So when does the dance crap out, though?
Marc:But you didn't move there when you were 12.
Marc:Did you actually go to Juilliard?
Guest:I did.
Marc:And you, for how long, two years?
Guest:Just one year.
Marc:And then they kick you out or you quit?
Guest:Well, ish.
Guest:Like, so unfortunately by that point, I had been very ensconced in New York City nightlife.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And that was very attractive.
Marc:What was that, 82?
Guest:So 89 and 90.
Guest:So like, you know, the tunnel and Nels and MK.
Marc:And how long were you like?
Marc:Mars.
Marc:Like, I remember Nels.
Marc:I had a bad night freebasing with a guy who is an advertising executive there.
Guest:Wonderful.
Marc:Terrible.
Marc:But I can just remember the creepiness of it because I came back from, oh, God.
Marc:But you're out the whole time?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:From the time I moved to New York City, I went to my first nightclub when I was 14.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Happy.
Guest:It was, I found my people.
Marc:Which one?
Guest:My first nightclub was called The Saint, and it was an all-ages night, and it was like, here it is.
Guest:This is you.
Marc:Where was this?
Guest:I think it was on the Lower East Side.
Guest:And you can Google the Saint.
Guest:The dance floor was this huge.
Guest:I mean, it was like a football stadium.
Guest:And inside the ceiling.
Guest:And just being like, it was, you know, your first time with anything.
Guest:Swept away by the music.
Guest:And also, too, it was like, I was validated.
Guest:People thought I was cute and fun and beautiful.
Guest:I got someone's, like, their attention.
Guest:The red ropes would part and would be like, come in.
Guest:And it's like, me.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So that tapped into all of the negative spots I had inside of me that weren't satisfied as a child.
Marc:And what was the drugs?
Guest:I would have to say that I was like a maintenance person, like daily pot smoker, daily drinker.
Guest:However, I'm also an Al-Anon, so I would pretty much do whatever you're doing, which would meant whoever I was dating, whatever their drug of choice is, I was doing that too.
Guest:So just a garbage head.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But not crazy junkie.
Guest:No, I never did heroin.
Guest:Heroin was a total yet for me.
Guest:And then after I got sober, I primarily dated heroin addict women because that is the hottest thing in the world.
Marc:What, the snoozy women?
Guest:Well, they were all sober.
Guest:So it just meant that there was this extra layer of like nuttiness that really activated my brain.
Marc:Oh, the one that can never be satisfied again?
Guest:Oh, Lord.
Guest:Like trying to hold a fish out of water.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Just kicking and bucking and just, I'm going to fucking be the thing.
Guest:If I could get them to pay attention to me, then I will have won.
Guest:But never, never was able to do that.
Marc:So when, so Juilliard, they had enough of you or how'd that?
Guest:So I think by the end of that.
Guest:That year?
Guest:Yeah, I was.
Marc:Motley Ballet or Modern what?
Guest:I was a modern dancer because by design, I could never get thin enough to be a ballerina, even though my true wish was to be a ballerina.
Guest:I love the structure.
Guest:I love the tutus.
Marc:You really got to be a type though, huh?
Guest:It is predestined.
Guest:There's nothing you could do to get that skinny yet strong.
Guest:It's like modeling in a way.
Guest:It's very, very difficult.
Guest:So I was always pushed to modern dance, but it's me and a tutu and a toe shoe is always what I... It's what I still want.
Guest:What are you fucking crazy?
Marc:I think there's still time.
Guest:I could do it.
Guest:Don't give me a thing to do.
Marc:The next time I see you, that's what you're going to be wearing.
Guest:Well...
Guest:When we do the follow-up interview, I'm going to get out of the car just with my feet in first position, like flap, flap, flap, flap in my toes.
Marc:That would be great.
Guest:I'm ready.
Marc:You should do a short film today.
Marc:Do a TikTok of you and a tutu.
Guest:Fine.
Marc:I'm ready.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:Go for it.
Marc:I'm telling you, this is a serious career.
Marc:Are you on TikTok?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I'm not.
Marc:It's time to get in the tutu and do the thing.
Guest:At this point, it would be a 4-4.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Attend.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Own it.
Guest:Yeah, I'm ready.
Guest:I'm ready.
Marc:But how does the dance dream diminish?
Marc:How does that tumble into a stump?
Guest:I think that at that point, like once I left kind of being under anyone's home, I was really free to do whatever I wanted to.
Guest:And I wasn't able to sustain being up at nine o'clock in the morning doing adagio across the floor.
Guest:I just wanted to be in the nightlife.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My roommate also, too, at Juilliard was an actress.
Guest:She decided she wanted to leave to become an actress.
Guest:And I was like, oh, because I've never had a sense of self, I've never like I couldn't connect with maybe like dance, maybe wasn't the end all be all.
Guest:And I was like, wow, I want to act, too.
Guest:And I felt like I was getting closer to my to my dream of being Pinky Tuscadero.
Guest:And so I went to acting school and I went to Stella Adler.
Marc:But it's so weird because like with me and it's probably the same with you in retrospect, I
Marc:This idea that we have no sense of self is faulty.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Because, you know, whatever the hell it is that got us through our lives is a sense of self.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:We don't give it much credit.
Marc:But when I look at myself, like videos and whatever, I'm like, I'm the same guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So I'm the only one that didn't think I had a sense of self, really.
Marc:I knew there was a piece missing, but it was an emotional component.
Marc:But I wasn't like some weird, nebulous, boundary-less nerd that was like glomming on to people.
Guest:Yeah, no, I don't think people would look at me and be like, oh, she doesn't know who she is.
Guest:Like, I clearly look like I do.
Marc:But it's more of a tone.
Guest:It's a connection that I don't feel it.
Guest:And I think that's also maybe a part of the addiction component of me is that I want to feel it, but I don't feel it all the time.
Guest:So let's just keep doing it until we fucking feel it.
Marc:Here's the problem.
Marc:Maybe the self-consciousness is the issue.
Yeah.
Marc:Maybe the vigilant, like, am I feeling it?
Marc:Is this happening?
Guest:Yeah, like, is this kicked in yet?
Guest:Call your guy, man.
Guest:Call your guy.
Guest:Where's the guy?
Guest:This shit's bunk.
Guest:Let's take more.
Guest:And then you're face down.
Marc:Let's go over there.
Marc:we're going over there fuck this yeah yeah dealers I was thinking about dealers anyway so no sense of self Stella Adler was going to give it to you oh yeah
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Who was over there when you went over there?
Marc:So you were at the school in New York?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You just auditioned to get in?
Marc:Who was teaching over there at that time?
Guest:The amazing Alice Winston, who has passed.
Guest:The incredible Jimmy Tripp, who I believe is still alive.
Guest:And I think that Stella's grandson, I think, was running the show over there.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:It was wonderful.
Guest:It was probably... I was sober by that time.
Guest:I got sober at 22.
Marc:And who were you dating when you decided to act?
Marc:What was that?
Guest:So let's see.
Guest:I think around there.
Guest:I think I was a little bit kind of freewheeling it.
Guest:No, I had a boyfriend who worked at Giorgio Armani.
Guest:Beautiful, beautiful guy.
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:I've had wonderful, amazing boyfriends that I...
Guest:ruined, that I have made a lot of amends.
Guest:I just want people to know I have tried to clean that up.
Marc:What was the tone of, is there a through line to the amends to men?
Guest:I'm just, I'm sorry.
Guest:I'm sorry about the whole thing, top to bottom, top to bottom.
Marc:What did you do to them?
Guest:I was a ruthless, selfish girl who probably should have been with women, but I didn't know that about myself until I was like 25 or 26 years old.
Marc:Oh, so when I asked you if you were out, you didn't know?
Marc:No.
Marc:You took that as meaning out in the world?
Guest:Oh yeah, out in the world.
Guest:I didn't come out until I was like 25, 26 years old.
Marc:Really?
Marc:No girls before that?
Guest:Well, I would for a long time, it was like I would when I would be out drinking, it would be a lot of bathroom makeouts with, you know, my friend's girlfriend.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I also never connected your male friends, girlfriend.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Or girls, girlfriends, like just everyone's girlfriend.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because I was garbage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:I would get with your person because I didn't have any morals.
Guest:If I was loaded, there was nothing off the table.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:If I wanted it, I would fucking take it.
Marc:Well, isn't that part of the fun?
Marc:You know what?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I nailed that shit.
Marc:Good for you.
Guest:Nailed it.
Guest:I'm like, get your shit.
Guest:We're leaving.
Guest:Fuck that guy.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It took me a long time to figure that out.
Guest:I didn't even understand that even when I was having sex with men that I was... Not having fun?
Guest:Well, not having an orgasm, A. And then B, when they would get up to take a shower and I would jerk off and think about women.
Guest:I never even connected that.
Guest:Maybe that was a queer thing to do.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:You're like, this is what all women do.
Guest:Isn't this just how you do it?
Guest:uh no but yes but yes maybe yes i don't know whatever's right for you listeners whatever's right for you i'm not judging yeah that was my experience yeah and then i met uh my first girlfriend uh and it was like as if like when you were 26 so you're three years sober so and that is that the cop yes
Marc:Okay, so now you're in acting school or are you done with it?
Guest:I'm done with acting school.
Guest:By that point, it was like, it was truly, there was a very short period of time.
Guest:I was sober, finished acting school, working actress.
Marc:Really?
Marc:What'd you do?
Marc:See, that's why I kind of feel like I'm about to enter the picture.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, yes, yes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because like you were in a Jim Carrey movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Man on the Moon about Andy Kaufman.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That was the one thing I heard.
Guest:Well, that was the well, that's the big that's the big that's the big ticket item.
Guest:But there was also like I was on Law and Order and Homicide and did some NBC pilots and.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, and just was like on like I felt so good and capable and ready.
Guest:I felt like I was fucking ready.
Guest:Nothing was in my way.
Guest:No drugs or alcohol.
Guest:I was fucking on fire.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I turned to my mom and I'm like, I'm gonna be on the cover of Rolling Stone.
Guest:Just fucking get ready.
Guest:Just fucking bitch.
Guest:It's on.
Guest:It's on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then that was brought to a grinding halt by the fact that my, you know, I. Yeah.
Guest:Well, here's the thing.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:My opinion of why I think that happened with getting shot was.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Wait.
Marc:So you're with this cop.
Marc:How'd you meet the cop?
Guest:Okay, so I was... Here's the thing.
Guest:I feel like... Is she still around?
Guest:I don't know where she is.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I also do not want nothing to do with her.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:For obvious reasons.
Guest:It felt divine meeting her.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:I had an ex-boyfriend who was an artist who I had bumped into on the street.
Guest:And he was like, I've got some pictures, paintings of you.
Guest:I wrote down my number.
Guest:This is before cell phones.
Guest:I wrote down my number on a piece of paper.
Guest:Three days later, I got a call from a New York City police officer from Bellevue Hospital.
Guest:And he goes, do you know this person?
Guest:And I go, yes, I do.
Guest:And he goes, I need you to come and identify him.
Guest:And I was like, oh, shit.
Guest:And he was like, no, he's not dead.
Guest:He's overdosing on cocaine right now, but he held a hostage.
Guest:So he's in trouble.
Guest:And I was like, okay, I'm on my way to go help him.
Guest:So I hopped in a cab and I went up there and he was handcuffed to the bed.
Guest:And it was so funny.
Guest:Like I walked into his little papered off room and he was like... Did you snag the paintings?
Guest:And he was...
Guest:You know, I should probably ask him where they are.
Guest:They probably are worth something.
Guest:He's a pretty big artist now.
Guest:So and I and I walk in and he was like, I was at a rager last night.
Guest:And I'm like, bitch, you are fucking in trouble.
Guest:And I was like, I'm going to go talk with these police officers over here.
Guest:And I will be right back.
Guest:And as I was walking over to this group of police officers, it was like a movie.
Guest:And I was walking over to them and these outside ones peeled away.
Guest:And there was this Latina lady cop standing in the middle of them.
Guest:And I had an out of body experience.
Guest:And I was like, that is what I want.
Guest:Like in the most visceral way.
Marc:So your friend handcuffed to the bed disappears.
Marc:Everything becomes a haze.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, it's like that Spike Lee thing where he pushes in, but the dolly is going forward.
Guest:And like the whole thing is like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that was that.
Guest:And that was that.
Guest:And and she became my first girlfriend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was a challenging relationship on a lot of levels.
Guest:And then she became an undercover narcotics officer.
Guest:And I broke it off with her because she was buying and selling drugs all day long.
Guest:And I was like, I'm sober now.
Marc:It was in the house?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I mean, for the New York City Police Department.
Marc:No, I get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but it was one of these things where it was like, I knew that at some point someone was going to put a gun to her head and be like, do these drugs.
Guest:And she was trying to be sober as well.
Marc:Oh, so she had a thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I broke it off with her.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then a year later, she called me and she was drunk and she came by my house and it resulted in her shooting me.
Marc:The leg?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And it was a fight?
Yeah.
Guest:So this is where it gets kind of like complicated.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You hadn't seen her in a year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She had asked to come by.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:She was armed.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We were sitting having tea.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And she pulled the gun out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I was like, would you put that away?
Guest:And then she pulled the trigger.
Guest:So it's one of these things where it's like, I don't know why this happened.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It doesn't make sense.
Marc:So it doesn't feel like it's hard to define it as like an attack.
Yeah.
Guest:But it's also not an accident.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Because why?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Why?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So it felt to me in the end, this felt cosmic.
Guest:This felt like for whatever reason, and this is the way that my brain maybe has gotten a hold of it, maybe in a fucked up way, but that the universe wanted this to happen to me.
Yeah.
Marc:And what happened immediately after that?
Marc:Like, I mean, did she say fuck and call the cops or?
Guest:Well, no, I mean, it was broad daylight.
Guest:It was outside of a cafe.
Guest:I was laying on the street bleeding.
Guest:And, you know, the cops came.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And at first they asked me who shot me.
Guest:And I at first protected her because I am an Al-Anon.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And then the cop was like, well, where did the bullet come from, Melanie?
Guest:And I was like, I don't know.
Guest:And then the cop was really good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he like got down on all fours and he put his fucking face in my face.
Guest:I'm laying on the street.
Guest:They're literally like trying to get.
Guest:Where is she?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:She split.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:She was there.
Guest:I don't know what happened to her at that point.
Guest:I just was like, oh my God, I've got two bloody holes on either sides of my legs and I'm just going to lay down right now on the ground because I don't know what's going to happen.
Marc:Is it a major vessel?
Guest:They were worried that that's what happened.
Guest:Essentially, if you don't get trauma pants on in four minutes to push the blood up into your heart, yes, you could hit that.
Guest:With that big vessel there.
Guest:Through the inside of your leg.
Guest:This cop was like, Melanie,
Guest:on all fours yeah and I literally opened my eyes for one second I like clocked him and I closed my eyes he had like all the gold bars and all this shit this guy was like a seasoned New York City fucking pro cop yeah he was like Melanie I know you know who shot you because I guess that's what people say oh I don't know I'm gonna protect my fucking stupid friend who just fucking shot me you know what I mean yeah he goes if you don't tell me Melanie I'm gonna find out and he's screaming in my face I'm gonna find out Melanie I'm gonna find out and I was like that's my ex-girlfriend she's a cop she shot me yeah
Guest:It's funny now, but it was like not funny at the time.
Guest:Here's the spooky part.
Guest:So when they took me, they put me in the ambulance and they took me to the emergency room at Bellevue Hospital where I met her.
Guest:And it was like it all came weirdly like full circle.
Guest:And I feel like that feeling that I felt when I saw her was actually danger in my body being like, this is a bad fucking situation.
Guest:But because I'm wired backwards in my mind, and I feel love is hate, and I feel hate is love, I perceived that as love at first sight.
Guest:And it was not.
Guest:Now I perceive those feelings as like, you're in danger, girl.
Marc:Yeah, I perceive them slightly differently.
Guest:Let's hear it.
Marc:But when I feel that juice, it takes me back to emotional instability that is very exciting.
Marc:So it's not love and hate, but I know that it cannot end well.
Marc:I've been telling this story recently that...
Marc:Like, I just had this situation where I was texting with a woman, you know, and I was not in great shape, but it got kind of saucy pretty quickly.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And there was just some tweak in the tone.
Marc:I already knew that it was like trauma bonding and, you know, sexualizing.
Marc:I knew that.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:But there was some tweak in the tone of it where it just reminded me like, you know, because I went through five years with a borderline, you know, that I had to get a restraining order.
Marc:And, you know, well, anyways, so I'm just texting with this long story longer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it just hits me like, oh, my God, if I I never met the person.
Marc:And I was like, if I meet this person and we do anything, it's going to take me at least five years to get out of it.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:That's all I knew.
Marc:Like that was the time frame.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like if I engage this five years minimum.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of trying to unhook this.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Like one Velcro tine at a time.
Marc:Just like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like fucking going through it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I'm really I mean, but I mean, obviously, this was yours.
Marc:I'm just talking about that impulse and like sort of reassessing that moment, because like I'm wary to diminish every electrical current that goes between me and other people as being something negative, you know, because a lot of times.
Marc:Like having not a lot of joy in my life, I can look back at some pretty amazing shit that happened in the midst of horrendous drama.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So, I mean, I've got to give myself a little bit of a break.
Guest:I totally hear that.
Guest:My situation resulted with me like it ruined my life.
Guest:It ruined my career.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because I couldn't healing.
Guest:I couldn't with like what the trauma of getting shot, what it did to my mind.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It ruined my ability to maintain my career, which is everything I've ever worked for.
Guest:Stayed sober, though.
Guest:I did.
Marc:That's not nothing.
Guest:No, that is not nothing.
Guest:I'm very, very proud of that.
Guest:I'm incredibly proud of long term recovery.
Guest:However, I know now that I can fuck up my life without a drink or a drug.
Guest:No problem.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I'd have a name for mine.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You know her.
Yeah.
Marc:What?
Marc:No, I just mean, like, I got sober and I latched on to somebody.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You know, like.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Oh, my God, of course.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, there's no, you know, you can really, you fuck up your life and you're awake for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's why I feel like for me, the Al-Anon predates like the Al-Anon problems predate the drugs and alcohol.
Guest:I was able to get sober at 22 pretty easily, not living in the home with any of my parents and getting farther and farther away from that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And maintaining recovery.
Guest:That's why I feel.
Guest:And also to the fact that my sober story is more traumatic and more challenging and more damaging than my using story.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:Definitely.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, hands down.
Marc:But like, I just never really understood what an a codependent bottom hitting was like.
Marc:I, you know, I wasn't clear on it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and clearly I've been because I always saw myself as the qualifier.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You know, I'm the bad guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like I used to like get that when I go to double winners meetings, I'd be like, no, I'm the bad.
Marc:But then I realized like I'm such a fucking co like like in the worst way, like completely willing to negotiate everything away.
Marc:But I only did it like I didn't notice it with Mishnah because I was out of my mind.
Marc:I was, you know, just newly sober.
Marc:But when I finally noticed it, I'm like, wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then, of course, everyone you know is sort of like, yeah, we knew.
Marc:I'm like, well, thanks for stepping up.
Marc:You know, this kind of like that mentality of like, we don't want to get involved in people's personal life.
Marc:It's like, I'm your friend.
Marc:And you probably could have said that I was in trouble.
Yeah.
Guest:I think it's really difficult.
Marc:It is, of course.
Marc:Because then you're going to be like, fuck you, man.
Guest:Yeah, I think it's hard to hear.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:When the student's ready, the teacher appears type situation.
Guest:Like, when you're ready to hear it, you'll fucking hear it.
Guest:And it's also tailor-made for you to hear it.
Marc:Sure, but you don't want to be talking to a cop when you're ready to hear it.
Marc:Like, I'm ready to hear this.
Marc:And you're on the ground bleeding.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:But what specifically about the recovery from that?
Marc:Because that's sort of where I came into your life.
Marc:You were still limping.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it's so funny because I remember I was speaking at a meeting and I literally looked up and saw you and Mish and you sat down and I was like, oh, that's her new guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I still had a cane from walking from being shot.
Guest:And, you know, I was bringing my message to the people that you can stay sober no matter what.
Guest:Look at me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm amazing.
Guest:And now I'm like, bitch, this has been hard.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's been a hard road.
Marc:But still, that's that's that thing that you were talking about.
Marc:That kind of like, you know.
Marc:You know, doing it.
Marc:I'm going to do like that fortitude in that ambition that that, you know, helped us survive.
Marc:That becomes sort of a liability as you get older, because the try too hard thing probably helped a lot of people stay sober in the midst of that, that you hadn't obviously processed your feelings, but you knew that you needed to go to the thing.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:Talk the talk.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Well, it's AA.
Guest:Which it was like, God's got a plan for you.
Guest:I'm like, that's a pretty fucked up plan, bitch.
Guest:How about that plan?
Guest:Sounds pretty bunk.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or like they would kind of sometimes put the blame on me.
Guest:And I'm like, I'm telling you like this isn't.
Guest:Whatever you're saying to me right now.
Guest:Yeah, it made me turn my back on program and also to on any sort of higher power, which I had created.
Guest:And I mostly had created Santa Claus.
Guest:You know, I mostly had created a bell, a bellboy.
Guest:I'm like, go get me my shit.
Marc:So now you don't understand this gift, the gift of the cane.
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:Well, and I and I don't think it's a gift.
Guest:No, I mean, it was.
Guest:And I think that's also the hard thing, too, sometimes about like the speaking point of trauma is that sometimes people are like, it made me stronger.
Guest:And I'm like, I think it really fucking fucked me up.
Marc:Well, it makes you calloused.
Guest:I think it made me... I'm currently doing a lot of reading about evil queens and why people become evil.
Guest:As the years are kind of... Historical queens or gay men?
Guest:Like villains in Disney movies.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'm reading The Fairest of All right now about the queen of Snow White.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And how these women become evil.
Guest:And it's funny because I feel like in my heart as I'm aging, I'm just totally like, wow, I can really feel like a darkness in my heart as I'm getting older.
Marc:But how does that manifest?
Marc:Um, like what is the impulse out of the dark heart to do what?
Guest:I think it's the, um, to greet everything with negativity, to greet everything with like, this isn't going to work.
Guest:Um, and I do have, I do have a lot of reference that if, if I, if I move forward with something that positive things can happen, but there's just been, I think it's probably also to the pandemic.
Guest:It's like coming down the world's ending.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:But it's interesting that the darkness that you see at the core of your potentially future evil disposition is still fairly self-flagellating.
Marc:It's not like, you know, I'm going to kill.
Marc:It's like, I hate me.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, no.
Guest:Oh, yeah, no.
Guest:Abso-fucking-lutely.
Guest:And it doesn't help anything.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:No, it just...
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's like a couple of things like the sort of like kind of adage talk of AA.
Marc:It's like that's what that's the weird thing about recovery is that everyone's got these talking points and they're taught to say them and it does enable them to engage.
Marc:But ultimately, if you're really spiraling and you need other help, you got to go get other help, you know, 100 percent.
Marc:But people are just trying to sort of like.
Marc:This is what I'm taught to do.
Marc:And, you know, and sometimes all you need is someone to stand there.
Marc:I can't tell you after Lynn died, like I had neighbors who I didn't know before coming over to check in on me six feet away, just watching me cry.
Marc:And it was all right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it can be messy and it can help you through.
Marc:Sure, man.
Marc:I mean, you know, you want to witness.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know, usually.
Guest:I did, however, like, and I do need to say this, that, like, I feel like the dumb shit that people say can be so damaging.
Guest:And so I always just want to say this, that, like, if you're talking to somebody that's going through the thing, you don't have to figure it out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I have a little script that I have for people where I just say, wow, it sounds like you're facing a challenge.
Guest:That's all you have to say.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you have the energy, you can tack on this this latter part, which is what can I do to help you?
Guest:But if you don't have that to like cook for them, do laundry or drive them somewhere or help them with anything, that's fine.
Guest:If you just say it sounds like you're facing a challenge, the damage that people did in trying to figure this out in blaming me and telling me that this is what God wanted for me, that ruined a relationship that was like literally the one that saved my life.
Marc:And so you're talking about someone specific.
Guest:It feels like hundreds of people have said these words to me.
Marc:I don't need the God thing.
Guest:Well, I really struggle with that as well because it was like, it's our first order of business when you get sober.
Guest:It's like, oh, you've got to get a God.
Guest:And it's like, I've really struggled with it because I don't have a God of my understanding.
Guest:I have a God of my not understanding.
Marc:I go with the, I know it's not me.
Guest:group of drunks good orderly direction like this i just like i you know i'm willing to dissipate it to the the the miracle of the universe yeah however i because of that i don't because i felt like the way that everything went down it felt like it was so choreographed from above
Guest:It felt like the universe was making this happen.
Guest:Why did I need to be there?
Guest:Why did she need to be there?
Guest:Why did that need to happen?
Guest:It felt like like all of these dominoes, it reached super far in each direction that got me there to that point.
Marc:I know, but that's like motor brain.
Marc:I mean, like you feel that that's what you felt then.
Marc:Can you at least now just go like this is fucked up?
Marc:Or do you have to frame it as some sort of historical event?
Guest:I think what's hard is that I've had to frame it and reframe it so many times because it was like I would put it in a frame, the frame didn't work.
Guest:Put it in another frame, frame didn't work.
Guest:Put it in another frame, frame didn't work.
Marc:People were incomprehensible.
Marc:Horrible.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, it's who the fuck knows.
Guest:I know.
Marc:It's a miracle we get through every day.
Marc:The more people you interact with, your odds get lower.
Guest:Oh, no, totally.
Guest:And that's why I always say I have a God of my not understanding.
Guest:I don't get it.
Guest:I don't understand.
Marc:I've been working something on stage about how the one thing that stuck with me after Lynn passed away was that someone said to me, you know, people, when they die, their energy doesn't leave.
Marc:And I'm like...
Marc:I don't know if that's helpful.
Marc:You're like, I got used to the human form.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So now it's just a broad field.
Guest:Now she's just here while I'm cooking for somebody else.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's nice.
Marc:I mean, it stuck with me and I still kind of, you know, you know, you talk to birds, whatever you're going to do.
Marc:But but so how.
Marc:So your brain, it seems like with that whole kind of the domino thing.
Marc:So that's how you spun out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's what crippled you.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I felt untethered.
Guest:I felt completely unfounded.
Guest:And it was almost like the universe were replicating the parents that I had who didn't care about where I was at and what was going on with me.
Marc:So how long, what do you do in this period?
Marc:Because
Marc:Like I'm trying to think what years this is.
Marc:So you can't act.
Marc:You're not going on auditions.
Marc:What are you doing?
Marc:Just being depressed?
Marc:Are you medicating?
Marc:What's happening?
Guest:Yeah, I tried medication.
Guest:Medication has never worked for me.
Guest:And I moved to LA to jumpstart my career again because after a year of...
Guest:Not working.
Guest:I then, well, I did have that kind of quickly.
Marc:So you kind of hit the wall.
Guest:Well, I hit the wall and I wanted to I wanted to die.
Guest:I after a year after I got shot, I was totally like, oh, I want to die.
Guest:So I then checked myself into St.
Guest:Vincent's Hospital because I was like, I think I'm going to hurt myself.
Guest:And then they put me on medication.
Guest:That medication seemed to be working.
Guest:But I think it was a total placebo effect.
Guest:Like, I think I just wanted something to work for me.
Guest:And then I moved to L.A.
Guest:being like, bitch, L.A., let's get a pilot.
Guest:Well, I did one more movie and I was like, I want to stop trying to like fit into this life that doesn't maybe seem to completely want to make it hard for myself.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I'm like, you're going to look so specific 20 years before it's cool again.
Guest:And so good luck with that.
Marc:That's when you came to our house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's so funny.
Guest:I remember that night because I was literally way overdressed standing in your kitchen.
Guest:I was probably in like a bathing suit and some like Frankie B's.
Guest:The top of my ass crack was probably hanging out.
Guest:You were cooking some salmon and asparagus.
Guest:You guys just seemed like power couple.
Guest:And I was just totally like the fucking wild animal that was in your living room.
Guest:Hi, guys.
Guest:Like, I'm in L.A.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Now what?
Guest:And you were like, she'll calm down.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:And that's when, like, Mishnah had that Fiero.
Guest:Oh, the Fiero.
Guest:Well, I had a Trans Am.
Marc:I had that.
Marc:I remember.
Marc:The one with the bird on it.
Guest:Fucking badass.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You were driving that fucking Trans Am and you're... Smokey and the Bandit.
Marc:And your blonde mohawk with your aviators.
Guest:I was really having, like, a fucking, like...
Guest:you had a thing going on i had i was kind of reliving a teenage life that i never got to have because i was always dancing i wasn't i wasn't always allowed to go to school dances and i had to kind of like look and be a certain way and it was like bitch you know what if everything's gonna try and kill me why don't i just fucking live you know what i mean so it was like trans am t-tops mohawk it's crazy let's fucking get it let's get it you know how'd that go
Guest:It fucking went great.
Guest:It was a good time.
Guest:I was totally suffering inside of it, though.
Guest:I wish I could have enjoyed that time more.
Guest:However, when I look back at the pictures, I'm like, bitch, you look awesome.
Guest:And then during that time, I moved out here and got like a yet another heroin addict girlfriend who was amazing and wonderful.
Guest:And then at some point it was us at Astro Burger.
Guest:And I was like, it's me or the heroin.
Guest:And she goes, it's the heroin.
Guest:Uh, and I mean, she said those words, uh, that's not even like a fucking fun metaphor.
Guest:She was like, bitch, not you got on her orange Harley and drove off.
Guest:And I said, you know what?
Guest:Like if I'm going to be, I just, if I'm going to be with crazy people, like why don't I just choose love?
Guest:And I don't care if it's dudes.
Guest:I don't care if it's girls.
Guest:Clearly it doesn't matter.
Guest:It doesn't fucking matter.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm trying to figure out how to like keep my feet on this fucking planet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I met and fell in love with a fashion designer and my baby daddy, and I got pregnant with my son.
Guest:I kind of remember that guy.
Marc:Do I?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I don't know.
Guest:Here's the thing.
Guest:I started doing comedy in that Mohawk phase.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:For a few years.
Marc:I was such a shit about that, though.
Marc:I'm like, oh, now she's doing comedy?
Guest:Of course.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:I don't know if I registered it.
Marc:It was more of a storytelling gimmick then, right?
Guest:Yeah, because I think I was mostly processing.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And so it was like- Because now you're like a full-on cocky schtickster.
Guest:Well, I think it was like, well, because someone came up to me and was like, you're really funny.
Guest:And I was like, I know, people tell me I'm funny.
Guest:And then he was like, well, you know, if you want to come perform.
Marc:Where were you performing then?
Guest:At the belly room and at the comedy store was the first place I ever did comedy.
Guest:And I had a great first set.
Guest:And I was like, oh, hi, hello.
Guest:This feels really right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what year is that?
Guest:2002 right yeah okay um so that felt really right because for the first time i think i had my own voice because it was like dancing was like telling a story silently then it was acting telling somebody else's story right comedy is me telling my story yeah and i'd been given a big one yeah and i was fucking on fire yeah and i was also kind of a little bit of an oddity people weren't performing in mohawks back then so it was like i could you know be up there in my leather how out were you on stage
Guest:Pretty out at that time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then got with my baby daddy and then had to reframe that.
Guest:However, I got pregnant like six months after I met him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then once I had my son, I couldn't maintain comedy because I didn't really have the support to be out every night.
Guest:And you can't just like drop in on comedy.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So you get pregnant on purpose.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were just sort of, what was the impulse there, Mel?
Yeah.
Marc:I think when you got... You got a Trans Am and a Mohawk and you're kind of running around LA like a baby.
Marc:That's what I need.
Marc:That'll fill it all.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It wasn't like that.
Guest:I think it was like, it's always been the search for love.
Guest:Like in a really deep sense.
Guest:But I've never been that girl that was like, I need a baby and let me watch your kids.
Guest:I've never been that.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I also had like...
Guest:hormones i mean my i could feel my fucking ovaries back then like fucking motorcycle right just like let's go you know and i was with a dude and i was like i haven't used birth control in 10 years so i would like to have a child and so i'm not going to use birth control and he was like i want to have a kid too and it was like great two wild animals coming together uh and then i instantly got pregnant because you just have to talk dirty to me and i fucking get pregnant yeah
Guest:And then a whole new chapter started with being a parent.
Marc:Is he still in the life?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:My kids with him every weekend.
Marc:Always.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You guys get along.
Guest:Ish.
Guest:I mean, I do a lot to maintain co-parenting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How old's a kid?
Guest:16 oh yeah he's a big guy he's awesome yeah um i do a lot to maintain co-parenting which is very challenging um but we're almost done i mean essentially harrison is is on his own and he's okay solid he's such a great guy oh good i really really lucked out he's a great guy
Guest:He's really, really great.
Guest:You'd love him.
Guest:He's awesome.
Guest:He's so great.
Guest:Really into music.
Guest:Like Kanye just dropped his album and he was like, you got to listen to this.
Guest:Donda?
Guest:Yeah, he's like, you got to put the headphones in.
Guest:So I'm like laying in his bed with the headphones in and I'm like, oh yeah.
Guest:I'm like, uh-huh.
Guest:And I'm like, those moments, wonderful.
Guest:Chef's kiss.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:To have that.
Marc:But you feel like the kid's grounded and you were able to spackle the...
Guest:I do.
Guest:And I do because I fucking put a lot of fucking hard work into myself to make sure that whatever happened in my childhood was not replicated with him.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:A lot of fucking hard work.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, you know, I think I've known people that do it in spite of their childhood.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So they they're like, I'm going to fucking.
Marc:And that's the wrong attitude because you can't get out from under it unless you get out from under.
Guest:yeah no I mean I think that can be a little bit of like the wind beneath your wings to fucking be like bitch no you know what I mean however I think I had like when so Jeff and I broke up probably like a year and a half two years so he went on Project Runway and won and that was kind of like the flashpoint of like the end of our baby daddy yeah the end of our relationship because it was like fame fame adding to any sort of situation can make anything really challenging didn't I know this guy
Guest:He's a sober guy.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I kind of remember.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, um, and that ended our relationship and I was like so devastated because you have to understand like it was like getting shot and then like I couldn't make my career click back in.
Guest:My dad had died and now I'm like a brand new mom and like, and then it was like fame was happening in our living room and not necessarily in the good way.
Guest:And like, it was like, I kept on just getting like hits, hits, hits.
Guest:And then I was like,
Guest:I think this is why, and this is my opinion, I think this is why sometimes men grow up to hate their mothers because they're with grieving women, which is sometimes, well, it is not attractive.
Guest:It's very challenging.
Guest:And I didn't want that.
Guest:I didn't want to be that for Harrison.
Guest:I didn't want him to witness me.
Guest:So even in the past when I had fallen apart, you don't have a witness.
Guest:You can just fall apart.
Guest:You can just fuck whoever you want, eat whatever you want, do whatever you want, switch it up,
Guest:back and forth, up and down, what, what, what, who cares?
Guest:In the presence of a child, it got very different.
Guest:And I was like, oh, I need to get it together.
Marc:But that's amazing that you stepped up.
Marc:Because we come from selfish people that rationalize.
Marc:The difference between stepping up and rationalizing and not realizing, I've been rationalizing for a decade into this person's life.
Marc:It's a big deal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I got some real, real help with relationships and I got some real, real help with finances.
Guest:I realized that I had like some money stuff that was like I felt like I was repelling it.
Guest:I was like, oh, my God, even my partner gets one hundred thousand dollars.
Guest:And somehow I fucking end up broke.
Guest:Like I was like, how does this is a real gift?
Guest:You know what I mean?
And.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember all of the birthdays that didn't happen, all of the challenges that were a struggle.
Guest:Heartbreaking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then so you're having to relive it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I feel like sometimes what happens is with parents, they either really can click in and be like, OK, I see how I can make this different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or this is going to repel me so much and I'm going to bounce because I can't fucking hack this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I feel like in the presence of a child, I feel like that is sometimes can be the truest growth to really heal that childhood stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when did you meet the current wife?
Guest:Aaron, Air Bear.
Marc:Aaron.
Guest:Aaron.
Marc:How old was the kid?
Guest:He was five.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Marc:You've been together a while.
Guest:Oh my God, 10 years.
Guest:We've been married seven.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Together 10.
Guest:And I had absolutely given up on marriage or relationships.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had even said to myself, this isn't going to work for you.
Guest:You've tried.
Guest:You've put in a good 40 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're done.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Let's fucking take the needle up.
Guest:I feel a little of that.
Guest:Take the needle up off the record.
Guest:And I just said to myself, you know what?
Guest:Just have lovers.
Guest:Who the fuck cares?
Marc:Have lovers.
Marc:You've earned it.
Guest:whatever yeah be very clear hey this is what i don't want this i want this yeah scare the hell out of them first thing i don't want to get married i don't want a relationship i think we should have some fun together let's hang out let's do it yeah and i uh saw aaron and i was like and i'll start with you yeah and uh right out of the gate oh yeah and i absolutely started with her and she turned out to be the greatest human uh that ever came into my life
Marc:Well, it's a beautiful story.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And now she's opening a restaurant.
Marc:So how did the comedy career begin to unfold?
Marc:How did you sort of evolve into this kind of, I don't know how I want to frame it.
Marc:You're kind of, you know, power top man.
Guest:Undercover top.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:After comedy with Harrison, I then moved into writing and directing and wrote and direct like four short films and some screenplays.
Guest:And, you know, they had their own little kind of like good success.
Guest:And I felt very good.
Guest:And then when with Aaron, I realized that there was some stability in my life.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:And I was like, I didn't quit comedy because I was like, I'm done with that.
Guest:It was like it got taken away.
Guest:I was very bitter about it.
Marc:And you couldn't find a way to make the bread.
Guest:Well, and I couldn't figure out a way to like someone had to care for my child while I'm you can't do things with the you know, there's a child there.
Guest:And I just got to the point where I was like, this isn't done for me.
Guest:I love doing this.
Guest:And my wife and my kid were like, go, we're fine.
Guest:And I had the freedom because, you know, when you're a parent, your kid comes home at three o'clock, you make dinner and then I'm out the door to go do comedy.
Guest:In my mind, that also kind of triggered some ideas of like what an absentee parent would look like.
Guest:And then I was scared.
Guest:I was like, am I abandoning him?
Guest:Is he going to be mad at me for this?
Guest:And my wife and my kid looked at me and they were like, bitch, go.
Guest:You're better when you're in doing what you love.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So about like, I think it's been five or six years now since I've been back doing comedy.
Guest:And I just called everyone I called that when I first started doing comedy.
Guest:Everyone was right where I left them.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:For anybody out there who's taking a break, everyone is right where you left them.
Guest:Like, don't worry about it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Except for the one or two people.
Guest:Those one or two people that now have Netflix specials and won't fucking pick up your call anyway, but fuck them anyway.
Guest:I hate those people.
Guest:And then got a weekly show at the Comedy Store and was like boot camp back into the fucking trenches.
Guest:And then recorded a special.
Marc:Yeah, I saw that one.
Guest:It's been happening.
Marc:But what are you doing now?
Marc:Aren't you involved with a new show?
Guest:Yeah, so I booked a part on the TV show Dave.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And shot the season finale.
Marc:And was it well-received?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, have you seen the show?
Marc:I didn't watch the show.
Marc:No, I hear it's pretty groovy.
Guest:It is really good.
Guest:I didn't understand who Lil Dicky is.
Guest:I'm maybe not the demographic that would maybe come in through his music.
Guest:But the show is pretty brilliant, in my opinion, when it comes to the creative process, the creative process with partners, the creative process in LA.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really fucking nails it.
Guest:Also, there's a guy on there called Gaeta.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:His journey with being bipolar.
Guest:It's a pretty fucking epic show.
Guest:And I was already a fan.
Guest:So when I got the audition, I was like, wow, this would be really great to nail this.
Guest:And then got to work with Andrew Santino and, of course, Dave.
Marc:Andrew's a good guy.
Guest:Really, really fucking great cast and crew.
Guest:And it was really awesome.
Marc:Well, good.
Marc:I'm glad that everything's good.
Marc:You seem good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Hyper aware.
Guest:Super.
Marc:Better.
Guest:Ish.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's always a struggle.
Marc:Does it have to be?
Guest:No, 100% it doesn't.
Marc:So what do we do?
Guest:You literally just hang on day by day.
Guest:I mean, just doing the best that you possibly can.
Marc:But isn't there any way to stop the struggle?
Guest:I haven't been successful with it.
Guest:I mean, I found that I have, through all of the work on relationships and sobriety and all of those things, have found that I have been lucky enough to create a peaceful life.
Guest:My partner is not a challenge to me, if anything, she's an asset.
Guest:Although I didn't get into that for her to be an asset.
Guest:My kid is good.
Guest:I have figured out how to have a career and have it maintain and not have to constantly be, you know, damage control or pulling out because the relationship thing is going crazy.
Guest:Like that's the thing about having all of this trauma and reenacting it.
Guest:It's all to get in the way of the thing that I really want.
Guest:Like when you, I went to go, when you were, um, I saw you at dynasty typewriter and you were talking about your mom and how like the dog and the husband and like, what a great way to just not have to do any connect.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And that's I can blame everybody else.
Guest:What a fucker.
Guest:What a fucking lunatic.
Guest:How did I do not have to look at myself when I'm doing all that.
Guest:But the spotlight is is on me now because it's just me and everybody else is doing their own thing.
Guest:Like they're not there to complete me.
Guest:They're not to like I am partnering them through this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it seems like because of all this work and because of like your understanding of how it's playing out, you've got yourself some space.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You don't have to wake up and be like, oh, fuck.
Marc:Here this goes.
Marc:I find that anxiety is my number one problem with that.
Marc:I have to tell myself I'm not in a hurry like five times a day.
Marc:It's like, what are you doing?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Just stop it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm like, but I got it.
Guest:You don't have to do anything.
Guest:Nobody's waiting.
Guest:Nobody's tapping their toe.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:Yeah, it's interesting because I work with artists with my company all the time and I'm constantly- What's the branding company?
Guest:The promotional rescue, yeah.
Marc:What is that?
Guest:What is that?
Marc:I did a podcast, right?
Guest:You did.
Guest:You did my podcast.
Marc:I had no idea what it was about.
Guest:The promotional rescue talk show.
Guest:I talk to people about how they promote themselves.
Marc:Yeah, that whole subject sounds horrible.
Guest:I know, but that's why I wanted to talk to you.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Because you have been successful in what you do.
Guest:However, you've got a challenged relationship with it.
Guest:And I'm here to feature that.
Guest:It can be fucking rough and fucked up, but just fucking like, hang in there, keep going.
Guest:Here's some ways to make it a little bit better.
Guest:But like, you don't have to be perfect at it.
Guest:It doesn't have to be fucking your dream thing or like a million followers.
Marc:I don't even like the whole brand idea.
Guest:But you have a great brand, so fuck off.
Marc:I know, but I put very little effort into it.
Guest:I know, but you nailed it, which is why I wanted to talk to you.
Marc:You're right, but there's a fine line between just, you know, what people call your brand.
Marc:It's like a thing they hang on, you know, somebody, you know, realize self-realization, okay?
Marc:So like whatever my public personality is just came by virtue of me pressing forward.
Marc:And it's not it's not the greatest one because there's a lot on the line because I'm too I'm too public and I'm too I'm too open in that way.
Marc:So the brand is that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's not necessarily it's a faulty brand, but it's relatively authentic.
Marc:But I don't see it as something like I'm moving this.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:No, I totally hear what you're saying.
Guest:But it's like even, you know, Maria Bamford, who's like a client, like her last specialist called Weakness is the Brand.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I feel like it's so brilliant.
Marc:Yeah, it's funny.
Guest:And it's so helpful.
Marc:But a client.
Marc:I built her website.
Guest:I run her social media.
Marc:So there's a consulting service.
Guest:All of it.
Guest:So I consult people and I actually implement it.
Marc:So this is the major money source?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it helps me, affords me to do whatever I want and be my own boss, work in my gym jams.
Guest:What's it called?
Guest:Promotional rescue.
Marc:Promotionalrescue.com.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And people can go there and go like, I need help.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And they can see all my services.
Marc:What are they?
Guest:I can build your website.
Guest:I can run your social media.
Guest:I can talk to you about, you know, your strategy and how you want to do it.
Guest:But I'm always coming from a place of like, how can you get this done?
Guest:Not like trying to make you into something you're not.
Guest:I'm not interested in that.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, I'm glad that's working out for you.
Guest:Yeah, no, I mean, I really.
Marc:It's an interesting niche.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In the show business world, in the modern show business world.
Guest:I think it came really naturally only because, you know, I started promoting nightclubs when I was, you know, 18 years old, handing out flyers, you know, at the tunnel and Mars.
Guest:And it's like, I have always understood promotion.
Guest:I've also just been one of those people where it's like, I know everybody.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like I'm a that girl.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like Melanie will know somebody.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm a natural producer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm a natural project manager.
Guest:That's where the defects become an asset.
Guest:Where it's like being out, the need to know and understand everything that's freaking happening.
Guest:Now people pay me to fucking do that for them.
Guest:Where it's like, oh, I can make that connection.
Guest:I can help you put this all together.
Guest:I can see all the details.
Guest:I can see it through to the end.
Guest:Because if you have an idea for your movie or your special or whatever...
Guest:And you can't get it off your fucking hard drive.
Guest:Also, too, the trauma of artists, they don't want to talk about themselves.
Guest:And then it comes to a fucking grinding halt.
Guest:And I know that in my own career, coming to a grinding halt is one of my greatest pains.
Guest:So I would do anything to help people get over that bridge.
Marc:Do you call yourself a publicist?
Guest:No, because that's like traditional outreach to people to get placement.
Guest:I just call myself a promotions consultant.
Guest:But what I do is like way deeper sometimes with talking to people about their resistance around being visible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's very challenging for some people and they feel very vulnerable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're like...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They don't like it.
Guest:I mean, promotion.
Guest:I mean, your reaction is exactly the reaction.
Guest:It's the brakes go on.
Guest:You're just totally like, I don't want to.
Marc:No, I get it.
Guest:I turn off Twitter.
Marc:And, you know, I get it.
Marc:I mean, I understand it all.
Marc:But like, I'm fortunate.
Marc:You know, however, I've landed like I'm not like I don't sit at home thinking like, how do I get more followers or any of that shit?
Marc:You know, and I actually want to pull back, not because of self-sabotage, just because like I want this space.
Guest:Well, you're in a different space of people that when they come to me, they usually are struggling with it and they have a project that's either about to launch or they don't want it to get lost or they've launched it and they're not seeing the results that they want.
Guest:And they're like, why?
Guest:And I'm like, OK, I can see this from the outside.
Guest:Give you a fresh perspective on it.
Guest:And then also show you systems that can work.
Guest:And my main thing is to teach you how to do it without feeling gross.
Guest:Like, if you feel gross or weird about this, we're going to have a hard time.
Guest:How can we find a sweet spot so you start to see... That's another problem.
Marc:I always feel gross and weird.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you do it anyway.
Marc:Yeah, I do.
Marc:It's like, do it anyway.
Marc:No, I do.
Marc:In the face of it.
Marc:I've gotten very good at that.
Marc:That, you know...
Guest:And now you have people to help you.
Guest:I'm sure you've got people that make the WTF posts for you.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, you do it yourself?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:It's amazing.
Marc:I have a producer.
Marc:It's just two of us.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Yeah, but all that stuff, yeah.
Marc:And, you know, I mean, I'm okay.
Marc:The gross, weird thing, it makes me a living.
Guest:it does which is which is the like you've got shows that you need to get butts in seats you're essentially like it's they're big bringer shows you got to get no i do that yeah but they seem to come you know that well now i've got some people well you're kind of brilliant yeah well that's right as are you thanks for talking you're a gem thanks so much for having me mark yeah
Marc:Melanie Vesey.
Marc:I think we got to the bottom of some stuff.
Marc:Her stand-up special, Wild Animal, is on Amazon Prime Video, and her podcast is called Promotional Rescue.
Marc:Now, let's play guitar.
Marc:Let's play the Telecaster that Jay Mascus had sent to me.
Marc:My friend Jay Mascus.
Marc:Cool guitar.
Marc:He's a cool guy.
Marc:I'm very grateful for friends that have signature guitars, and they're willing.
Marc:They're willing to throw me a bone.
Marc:or a guitar in this case.
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Guest:Boom, her lives.
Guest:Monkey, La Fonda, cat angels everywhere.
Boom, her lives.