Episode 1260 - Steve Buscemi
Marc:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:How have you been?
Marc:Steve Buscemi is on the show today.
Marc:You know Steve Buscemi from being in tons of movies and TV shows like that everyone knows.
Marc:Reservoir Dogs, Fargo, Boardwalk Empire, Con Air, The Sopranos, The Big Lebowski.
Marc:He also used to be a New York City firefighter.
Marc:He's on the advisory council of the group Friends of Firefighters, which provides free mental health and wellness services to active and retired FDNY firefighters.
Marc:Fire department in New York City.
Marc:He's one of the producers of a new documentary, Dust, The Lingering Legacy of 9-11, which I watched.
Marc:Heavy stuff.
Marc:Ongoing.
Marc:PTSD.
Marc:Major health problems, cancers, lung problems.
Marc:People are still dying from that attack on the towers.
Marc:2001, 9-11.
Marc:Let's ease into that, all right?
Marc:There's some shows that happened that were released this week that this week got a little jammed up.
Marc:Sadly, the repost of Ed Asner's 2015 interview memorializing that great actor.
Marc:Sashir Zameda from Monday, which was a new podcast.
Marc:Then The Remembrance, another memorialization.
Marc:Is that what you say?
Marc:In memoriam.
Marc:of michael k williams which we posted monday night that was just fucking devastating so i just want to make sure you're on top of or know about all the things that came out this week on this feed
Marc:You know what?
Marc:I need to mention my tour dates.
Marc:Can I do that with you people?
Marc:Are we close enough to do that?
Marc:Helium Comedy Club, St.
Marc:Louis, Missouri, September 16th, 17th and 18th.
Marc:That's coming up next week.
Marc:Tickets are selling robustly, but the late shows on Friday and Saturday could use a little help.
Marc:Now, listen, I know that I've been hard on Missouri and I'll continue to be hard on Missouri.
Marc:And I know that there are plenty of good people in St.
Marc:Louis, nice, decent, progressive people that need to be entertained and that are having a hard go of it.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And I know this is a vaccinated show, proof of vax or recent test.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know there's a lot of obstacles to people coming in Missouri.
Marc:And some of them are principled because I've bad mouthed the fucking state so much.
Marc:Why would they why would they pay to see me?
Marc:Because you like me and you kind of know I'm right.
Marc:uh Neptune Seattle Washington that's on September 22nd eight o'clock show tickets are selling well I would get those if you want to go Aladdin theater we added a second show these are dates with Dino uh September 24th uh two shows first show at the Aladdin in Portland Oregon sold out second show 10 o'clock show there are tickets I would get them comedy attic sorry Bloomington sold out
Marc:It doesn't even matter the dates, does it?
Marc:Does it matter?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:September 30, October 1, October 2.
Marc:Dynasty typewriter shows, October 4th, sold out.
Marc:Sorry, October 10th, there are tickets.
Marc:There will be some shows going on sale in the near future.
Marc:The Largo, another Largo music show, and also a regular stand-up show at Largo coming up.
Marc:And I'll let you know, all this is moving towards the New York Comedy Festival Town Hall, November 13th.
Marc:7 p.m.
Marc:My mother, how many comps do you have?
Marc:How many people can I bring?
Marc:How many free tickets do you have?
Marc:How many are you going to need?
Marc:Probably at least 10.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I don't know how many I'll have, but I guess no friends.
Marc:You just bring everybody that I never see who's in my family to the show.
Marc:I think my brother's coming up, though.
Marc:Apparently, my father and his wife have seen Respect four times, and she texts me every time that she sees it as if it was the first time almost.
Marc:Just as excited, though she tells me the number of times that she's seen it.
Marc:I have gotten good feedback.
Marc:I'm proud of that work.
Marc:Proud of that work.
Marc:I just did a voiceover for another.
Marc:I'm doing two animated movies.
Marc:They're both coming out next year.
Marc:I play Lex Luthor in Super Pets.
Marc:And there's a lot of people.
Marc:There's like big stars in that one.
Marc:Same with the other one.
Marc:Bad guys.
Marc:Me and Rockwell.
Marc:Craig Robinson.
Marc:Awkwafina.
Marc:Big people.
Marc:Exciting.
Marc:And I got to watch all of bad guys.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:Anyway.
Marc:So Buscemi's here.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:It was great to talk to him.
Marc:It's great to see him.
Marc:Felt like I knew him.
Marc:He's one of those guys that for most of my adult life has been in movies that I've seen and watched.
Marc:And you feel like, you know, at least the Buscemi frequency.
Marc:I'm finding that with celebrities and with actors and with people I've known my whole life who I get to talk to that you don't know them, but you do know their frequency.
Marc:You know, everybody kind of hums along at a particular vibration.
Marc:There's variations in it, certainly if they're actors or characters, but there is a essence, a vibration, a fundamental frequency to the people that you see over and over again.
Marc:And usually they're pretty it's an honest thing.
Marc:And that's a big chunk of who they are.
Marc:That's what they are for you, whether they're candid or cagey or withholding or never themselves.
Marc:You get a sense of their fucking frequency.
Marc:You know a lot more about them than they think you do or then you think you do.
Marc:And I know this as an experienced talker to many different frequencies.
Marc:So the 9-11 anniversary 20 years is day after tomorrow.
Marc:What day is today?
Marc:The 9th.
Marc:And, you know, Steve and I talk about that because he's involved with firefighters in this movie that he's involved with.
Marc:One of the producers of Dust, the lingering legacy of 9-11 is a powerful movie, a reminder.
Marc:And also maybe not a reminder, maybe information that you did not know about the sort of cancerous legacy of that tragic event.
Marc:But Jesus, man.
Marc:My heart goes out to everybody that lost people there and to people who were there and just to like, I don't know what trauma looks like once it's buried in your heart and in your mind and what PTSD looks like.
Marc:But to be there that day and then to wander around those streets for those months after with that smell in the air and this sort of strange kind of, you know,
Marc:It was it was personal, man.
Marc:When you lived in New York, it was personal.
Marc:And I just remember that the woman that I was seeing at the time, who later became my second wife, was was down there.
Marc:She went to work that day.
Marc:And I remember waking up and turning on my big old Dell home computer and on the AOL home screen, the news screen was one tower and just a pile of rubble.
Marc:And I didn't I could not process what was happening.
Marc:And then.
Marc:I went up to the roof and I saw what was happening.
Marc:It was so quiet.
Marc:And then I freaked out because Mishnah was downtown.
Marc:She worked down there.
Marc:She didn't leave my house, but she left her house.
Marc:But she went to work and I couldn't get hold of her all day.
Marc:And you couldn't get hold of anybody.
Marc:And these towers were falling and the people upstairs in my building, they lost their mother.
Marc:And everyone was waiting around a TV set.
Marc:It was just...
Marc:terrible and Mishnah finally got through to me and she had to walk all the way up she was covered in ash and walked all the way uptown from you know ground zero basically and I mean it just blew her out man and she split she went back to Seattle to to deal with the trauma to deal with you know to come down from it and I was in New York it was dark man at that day the fucked up thing about that day is
Marc:was that it was so clear so crisp so quiet because they stopped everything all cars planes trains nothing was moving you just saw this billowing horrible smoke coming off that end of manhattan from the roof and nothing you could hear there was not a sound devastating fucking horrible
Marc:And just to be there, and everybody was walking around like zombies, shattered.
Marc:But you know, that was post 9-11 is where the schism began.
Marc:It's where the two sides were chosen.
Marc:Nationalistic and progressive ideas went head to head.
Marc:It's where the table at the cellar became this shouting match between the three or four liberals and what quickly became many, many kill all the Muslim thinking people.
Marc:And it was out of that
Marc:Ashes of 9-11, that tough crowd came, Colin's show.
Marc:And I think it was out of the ashes of 9-11 that this current tribalization of comics and comedy has happened.
Marc:I think out of 9-11, you get Trump's world that we live in.
Marc:Certainly in comedy, I can track the tribalization of comedy back to that table in that club
Marc:weeks after 9-11.
Marc:Have you been down to the memorial?
Marc:It's something, man.
Marc:I think it's really something.
Marc:Like, I think it's pretty effective.
Marc:It's worth seeing.
Marc:Steve Buscemi is a great actor.
Marc:And you can find out more about the new documentary that he produced or was one of the producers of Dust, The Lingering Legacy of 9-11 by going to dust-doc.com.
Marc:And no more intro necessary.
Marc:Steve Buscemi, you know Steve Buscemi.
Marc:Here he is with me talking on the machine.
Marc:Nice to see you.
Marc:Nice to see you.
Marc:It looks like you're in a hostage situation with some modern art on the wall.
Guest:i am i have to be very quiet so my captors don't hear me i'm i'm in hollywood i'm i'm at a airbnb in hollywood oh jesus you should have come over i know but i'm i'm in pre-production for a film that i'm directing in a few days and so i'm like back-to-back meetings and it was just hard to get what's this movie that you're doing
Guest:It's called The Listener.
Guest:It's a small independent film.
Guest:I've been asked not to divulge too many things about it, but I mean, I could talk about it a little bit.
Guest:It's about a woman who works at home for a helpline.
Guest:People call in and she works at night.
Guest:So the whole movie is just her, and we only hear the callers off camera.
Guest:And it's all about mental health, you know, and what people have been going through.
Guest:You know, not even – I mean, of course, it's about the pandemic a little bit, but –
Guest:But mental health is always issues.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Are you shooting it in that room you're sitting in now?
Guest:We're shooting right now.
Marc:So, like, that's interesting.
Marc:So it's just going to be that.
Marc:So you're just going to hear the callers and you're going to see her reacting.
Marc:Who's the lead?
Guest:That's what I'm not ready to divulge right now.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But it almost sounds like talk radio for a little bit, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a funny challenge because on the one hand, it's like, oh, it's one person in one location.
Guest:But she's the only one we see.
Guest:It's one location.
Guest:So visually, yeah, it's a challenge.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How do you keep that interesting?
Marc:That's your job.
Guest:That's what keeps me up at night.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so how do you resolve that?
Guest:I have an amazing team and, you know, we'll have a vision for it going.
Guest:I mean, we'll figure it out.
Marc:And sure.
Guest:But really, I guess the audience is going to have to embrace the idea that this is like we're just with her.
Guest:And we're going only going to hear the callers.
Guest:So for part of the film, you know, she's listening.
Guest:I mean, that's what it is.
Guest:But then there's one call where she divulges a lot of her.
Guest:personal information, which they're not supposed to do, but it's her way of connecting with this one caller.
Marc:I have a feeling that somewhere in the middle of production, you're going to be like, we got to add a flashback sequence of her life.
Marc:Got to mix it up a little.
Guest:I know.
Marc:So how long you been in town?
Guest:I got in a few days ago.
Guest:I was here a few weeks ago just for some pre-production and, you know, and then went back to New York.
Marc:But you're used to it, right?
Marc:Coming here?
Guest:I've been coming here off and on for 30 years, yeah.
Guest:And it's the only other city, you know, that I actually know.
Guest:Like I know how to get around.
Guest:I know where things are.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So it's nice.
Marc:You've shot everywhere in the world probably, but you know this city.
Guest:I've shot in a lot of places, but this is the one place that I, you know, when I hit the ground, I kind of know where I'm going.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, you can you know where to eat.
Marc:You know what to do.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So what do you like?
Marc:Are you locked down because of are they afraid of covid?
Marc:Is that what's happening?
Guest:Boy, it's definitely a challenge to shoot during covid.
Marc:Yeah, I've done it.
Marc:Yeah, it's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I do this series, Miracle Workers.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I saw that.
Marc:How's that going?
Guest:Really fun.
Guest:You know, we just we're the third season is airing now.
Guest:That's what Daniel Radcliffe and you and Radcliffe, who I love.
Guest:And we were lucky because this season it's an anthology show.
Guest:So each season is a different location and different theme.
Guest:And this year it's the Oregon Trail.
Guest:And so we were mostly outside and we were shooting in Santa Clarita.
Guest:So that really helped being outside.
Marc:But we were tested three times a week.
Marc:Yeah, I was on a set that did that.
Marc:Santa Clarita has acted in many movies as many different locations.
Marc:It seems like everyone shoots out there.
Marc:How the fuck did they make that look like Oregon?
Marc:A lot of special effects.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:It's like the desert out there, isn't it?
Guest:Well, we were shooting on this ranch.
Guest:Actually, there was a lot of different landscapes.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:No, but actually the hardest one to get was just like flat, flat land.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Because it's pretty hilly there.
Guest:But yes, it's very warm and desert-like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've randomly been using a line of yours in some of my Instagram lives and for no reason.
Marc:uh sometimes i'll just go are we square that's a good one i like that it's a great one just holding your face together i uh you know we were in the city to i think at the same time for many years but i i was watching
Marc:I know that you're sort of doing a little press around this Bridget Gormley documentary, Dust, really about the struggle to get legislation passed so these survivors of 9-11, both civilian firefighters, police, anyone who got sick from it could be taken care of, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:First responders, yeah.
Guest:And people who were down in the, lived there and went to school there.
Marc:You know, I knew that Jon Stewart was involved in the hearings and stuff.
Marc:But I just, you know, it's really...
Marc:amazing when you kind of lay it, because I was in the city when that happened, and we were doing comedy a couple weeks after that, and I remember that smell in the air, and I remember in my building in Queens, the woman upstairs from me was there and died in the towers, and the guy downstairs in my building was working, I guess with you, excavating the stuff, and he just broke down like this macho Latino guy,
Marc:He'd come home and I ran into him in the hall and he just couldn't keep it together.
Marc:And I just remember having that feeling that things weren't okay and there's no way they could be okay.
Marc:Yet they were really pushing that line.
Marc:And I like this documentary really kind of focuses on that weird...
Marc:confluence of we need to appear strong, you know, being being sort of that was the selling.
Marc:That was the selling of the idea to the people of of New York.
Marc:But the bottom line is they were concerned about economics, really.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it parallels today.
Guest:You know, I mean, when the when the you know, when the pandemic hit, you know, we were hearing the same things, you know, that were so afraid of shutting down the economy.
Guest:And I think that was certainly true at that time.
Guest:But I don't know if anything could have stopped
Guest:you know, any of the first responders and the volunteers, you know, who were there.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:To do this, you know, enormous job.
Guest:But it would have been good to at least know the dangers going in, you know.
Marc:Or at least shortly after anyways.
Marc:It didn't, like in my recollection, it was such chaos and such, it was totally devastating.
Marc:You know, like everybody was in a state of real shock.
Marc:You know, for months.
Marc:I mean, people were walking around like zombies.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:And I guess, but information really did start to come in fairly quickly about what was needed.
Marc:And not unlike the pandemic, they were ill-equipped to protect these guys.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And the stuff that they did provide just didn't work.
Guest:It was either not enough to go around or it didn't really work or, yeah, it just...
Guest:The operation was already underway and it was hard.
Guest:You know, you can't sort of stop that machine.
Guest:And it's just sad because, you know, there were, you know, guys down there, you know, I mean, people knew, you know, you could just feel it like that.
Guest:It was not safe.
Guest:And you would hear people say, you know, I'll bet we're going to, you know, die from this in 20 years.
Guest:Who knew that?
Guest:I mean, it would take it only took about five years for these nine nine eleven related cancers to start materializing.
Guest:And we had people dying within the first, you know, within the first decade or or before.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And still dying and they're still sick.
Guest:And I give so much credit to John Stewart and John Feel and all the first responders who, you know, would constantly go to D.C.
Guest:and, you know, lobby.
Guest:our politicians to just make this permanent, you know?
Marc:Yeah, it's sort of, it's just heartbreaking and weird that, you know, that it takes this, that when you really realize the kind of lack of empathy or willingness for Congress to engage in terms of money to do something that, you know, should be a moral no-brainer.
Guest:Right.
Right.
Guest:I just find it really strange when, I mean, Jon Stewart said it best in the film, you know, what does never forget mean?
Guest:You know, they all were saying it and tweeting it and never forget, never forget.
Guest:Well, okay, what does that mean?
Guest:And we take care of the people who are down there forever.
Guest:for however long it takes you know there's there's no time limit on on that so when you were a firefighter i mean where you grew up in the city right well i was born in brooklyn and then uh we moved to long island when i was when i was eight so i spent my real formative years in uh long island
Guest:And then I moved into the city when I was about 19.
Guest:So, I mean, I've always lived in New York and most of my time has been in the city.
Marc:Where did you move in the city when you were 19?
Guest:I moved to the East Village, Avenue A.
Marc:between 9th and 10th street oh yeah yeah i mean i i lived in i was uh on second between a and b oh yeah in uh you know in 89 90 91 wow a and not yeah a between you were at a and what
Guest:uh between 9th and 10th streets so this was like 1978 yeah wow and um i mean it was you know my that the first apartment that i had was you know i mean it was 100 bucks a month you know i don't want to sound like one of these geezers you know back in my day yeah but that's who we are 100 bucks a month there was a bathtub in the
Guest:in the middle of the room and I had a piece of plywood on top of it and that was my table when I wasn't using it.
Marc:So you had one of those things that you hook up to the faucet to shower while you're sitting in there?
Marc:Yeah, I remember those apartments, yeah.
Marc:Was your family firefighters?
Guest:No, I mean, I did have an uncle who was a firefighter, but my dad was on the sanitation department.
Guest:He was, you know, he worked, he worked for the city.
Guest:And so he always, you know, kind of knew about what civil service test was coming up.
Guest:You know, he told me and my brothers that as long as we're living under his roof, which we were, you know, like when we turned 18,
Guest:That we would have to take a civil service test, whatever one was available.
Guest:And for me, it was the fire department.
Guest:And that was the only one I took.
Guest:I, you know, there was a physical and a written test and I trained for the physical.
Guest:I did okay.
Guest:I did pretty well on the written test, and that's how I was able to even make the list.
Guest:And it still took four years for them to get to my name.
Marc:What is a civil service test?
Marc:I don't know what this is.
Guest:It's just basically a test to see if you can read and write and answer basic questions.
Guest:But there's always a couple of questions that are meant to throw you off.
Guest:But my dad, knowing that you can you can get prior tests, you know, I mean, they used to they would publish these tests.
Guest:So I actually studied to see what the types of questions were that were where it was, you know, maybe a little bit more difficult.
Guest:Otherwise, it's a pretty I don't remember the questions, but they were pretty simple.
Marc:But your father believed in this idea that that the civil service was a good way to go, that it was him being concerned about your future.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:He said, it's, you know, you have security and, you know, it's a city job.
Guest:You'll have, you know, benefits, security.
Guest:He knew that I wanted to be an actor, but he would say to me, you know, you put in your 20 years, then you can be an actor.
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, not a bad idea, but as you know, in this business, you have to go where the opportunities arise.
Guest:And I was doing both for a while.
Guest:I was doing theater, and then I started doing some independent film.
Marc:So when you went there at 19, you graduated high school, and you're like, I'm going to do it.
Marc:I'm going to go live in New York, and I'm going to do this.
Marc:And at that time, I mean, the East Village, what was going on there artistically was kind of crazy.
Marc:There was a lot of stuff going on.
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:It was, you know, I was there because the rent was cheap and it took me a while to like figure out, oh my God, I'm in like the, the art center of the world.
Guest:I mean, you had independent film that was just sort of, you know, kind of blossoming bands, you know, the punk bands, alternative bands and,
Guest:The art world was exploding.
Guest:There was all these like pop up galleries and artists and performance art was all over.
Guest:And it was just such a vibrant place to be and such a community.
Guest:You know, it was all happening like in that.
Guest:area below 14th street.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So what, what did you first, you know, kind of, kind of get him like, how many brothers and sisters do you have?
Marc:I have three brothers.
Marc:Isn't one of them an actor?
Marc:Didn't one of them, I know one of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My brother, Michael is an actor and he's been in a few of my films and, uh, that I've, uh, made and, uh, yeah, he's, he's been, he's been working all along.
Marc:I feel like he's been around the comedy scene a little.
Marc:I kind of feel like he was around or I kind of knew him somehow, uh,
Guest:Well, I mean, I actually used to do stand-up, so I don't know, but you wouldn't have known me from stand-up.
Guest:Where'd you do it?
Guest:I don't know how this happened, but I actually passed the auditions at the improv.
Guest:On 44th?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I mainly just hung out there and just sat in the back and I would watch people like Jerry Seinfeld and Gilbert Gottfried.
Guest:And it was an amazing time to be there.
Marc:What year?
Guest:Yeah, this was like 78, 79.
Guest:You know, if I got on, it wasn't like until like really, really late at night or sometimes they would let me open, you know, when it, you know, like at nine o'clock.
Marc:So was that, was, was Bud still there or just Silver?
Guest:silda was there yeah i think bud was already in la yeah for sure yeah yeah so you had a bit you had an act i had a cobbled together act that i just sort of you know i was influenced by so many different comics and i wasn't sure like what my style was you know like because i liked everybody you know i mean growing up i loved comedy and comics you know but it was a
Guest:Pretty diverse.
Guest:You know, the people that I liked were George Carlin, Steve Martin, Richard Pryor.
Guest:You know, I mean, they were all different from each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was the thing about being, you know, trying to do stand up was that I really couldn't find my voice.
Guest:I mean, I would watch people like Jerry and nobody was nobody else was like.
Guest:Nobody else was like Gilbert.
Guest:And I just really couldn't find what it was.
Guest:Well, what like what's my what's my style?
Guest:And I also didn't like the aloneness of it.
Guest:I'd like to, you know, I mean, like when it was going well, if you got laughs, that's the greatest feeling in the world.
Guest:But, yeah, having to, like, write your material and practice on your own.
Guest:And I much prefer working with actors.
Marc:Well, it's interesting because, you know, I understand that struggle, that this idea that you think it's a decision you make to be who you are on stage, where it isn't really.
Marc:You know, some guys, you know, figure out.
Marc:what the parameters of their particular talent and character are early on as part of the job.
Marc:But I, I sort of like, it is in some ways limiting depending on, on your freedom of mind, you know, that, you know, where you land with your persona, but, but oddly, you know, like if I think about when I started seeing you in movies to this day, I feel like I have a very strong sense of who you are and,
Guest:Well, that's the interesting thing.
Guest:I mean, I feel like I've found my voice or whatever through, you know, acting and roles that I've played.
Guest:But then when I think about some of the roles that I've played, I go, well,
Guest:is that me?
Guest:But I always, you know, like which ones, which ones are the ones where you're like, you mentioned Fargo, you know, it's like, you know, I mean, that guy is just despicable on so many levels, but there's something I still like about him or there's something that I can identify, you know, with his struggle or whatever, you know, whatever has made him, you know, who, who, who he is.
Guest:Um,
Guest:You're like, okay, there's enough of that in my background or whatever that I could relate and put it into the character.
Marc:The insecurity of that guy, just like he never quite has a handle on shit, you know?
Marc:And when I think about it, I think about that character.
Marc:It's a very funny character in a way.
Guest:He is very funny.
Guest:He's sort of ridiculous.
Guest:But what I loved about him is that he always thought he had a handle on things.
Guest:And I got this.
Guest:Don't worry.
Guest:I got this.
Guest:It doesn't have anything.
Marc:It just gets away from him pretty quickly.
Yeah.
Marc:So what were you getting involved in, you know, before you became a firefighter when you were down there in the Lower East Side and kind of your brains opening up to what's going on?
Marc:What were the some of the stuff that you were like, holy shit, that you saw down there early on?
Guest:Well, a few things.
Guest:There was.
Guest:Did you ever know the actor and comedian Rockets regular?
Marc:I think I brought him up to you.
Marc:You know, it's like it was funny because I interviewed once you once when I was on an Air America show years ago.
Marc:And Brendan, my producer who was just here, said you brought somebody up.
Marc:that you you you both knew and and i said it was either it was either maggie a step who i know who i knew yes well i loved maggie yes and i think that's who it was because i knew her we were kind of friends yeah but but i i then i wrote then i said maybe it was rockets red glare who i didn't know but i was sort of fascinated with because he seemed like a character he was such a character like what was so would you see him like what was he doing
Guest:Well, he had this cabaret show that he would do and he would bounce around a few locations, but I met him because he was a bouncer at a bar that we all used to go to.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Briefly, I think he worked as a bodyguard for Sid Vicious.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:But he also did stand-up and he was also in Jim Jarmusch's early films.
Guest:He was in
Guest:Strangers in Paradise and Down by Law.
Guest:And then I worked with a mystery train.
Guest:But yeah, he was just as downtown fixture.
Guest:And he would have these shows.
Guest:And one night, I finally got up to courage to, you know, tell him that I was an actor and I gave him a flyer for, you know, a little play I was doing.
Guest:I told him that I did some stand-up.
Guest:And without ever seeing me perform, he went, hey, I'm doing a show on Sunday.
Guest:Why don't you do something?
Guest:And I was just kind of shocked that he would let me perform in his cabaret show without knowing anything about me.
Guest:And it was in his show that I, you know, kind of the first time that I did stand-up down, you know, like in the East Village.
Guest:And met people, you know, Mark Boone Jr., of Sons of Anarchy fame.
Guest:He was also working in Rockets shows with another actor named Tom Wright.
Guest:And the two of them were doing these sketches or one act plays.
Guest:And so I got to know them and then started to work with them.
Guest:with them and then eventually just worked with Boone.
Guest:And it was from that time, you know, working with Rockets and then working with Boone that Boone and I started to write and perform our own material.
Guest:And we did that for many years.
Marc:So, but like, I can't imagine that it was framed as traditional standup because it always seemed that there was a slight tension between mainstream standup comedy and what was sort of evolving as performance art on the Lower East Side.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So then there was the whole performance art, you know, aspect of it.
Guest:And through my late wife, Joe Andres, I got to meet people like Tom Murren, who was the alien comic.
Guest:You know, he was he would just find things on the street and make his own props and costumes.
Guest:There was another duo called Dance Noise.
Right.
Guest:Lucy Sexton and Annie Obst, and they did this sort of like political burlesque.
Guest:And this is in the late 70s?
Guest:This is, well, no, now we're moving into the early 80s.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And another performance artist, Mimi Gacy, who was also a wonderful singer.
Guest:There were a lot of people like this, and Tom and Joe, they used to, and that group, they had a show called The Full Moon Show, and
Guest:and uh they would always do a show like every full full moon the four of those uh you know those four acts were like the core then they would invite other acts in i used like blue man group like like i first saw them in a in a full moon show so what were you doing in the team thing was that a straight comedy or was it sketches most were you
Guest:Yeah, Boone and I would write these characters and do these situations.
Guest:They were halfway between sketches and one-act plays.
Guest:Usually comedic.
Marc:It seems like this tradition carried on into...
Marc:You know, the 90s when I was there with like Collective Unconscious, there was certain surf reality that place where the showcase was sort of a variety show, but it was definitely not mainstream or or it didn't have any parameters, really.
Guest:Yeah, there was, you know, you'd see a lot of things that just you probably only see there.
Guest:And there was definitely like a community.
Guest:Everybody would go to each other's shows.
Guest:And not to say that people weren't ambitious, but there was, you know, the goal wasn't to get an agent and to, you know, like get something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mainstream.
Guest:Mainstream.
Guest:The idea really was to sort of experiment and explore and a lot of the times do something outrageous.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And like, well, like Rockets was sort of...
Marc:Was he a particularly talented guy or just a character?
Marc:Both.
Guest:I think he was very talented, but it's like he was always performing.
Guest:That's just who he was.
Guest:And he was also, the big thing about Rockets was that he always needed money.
Guest:He'd always hit you up for 20 bucks.
Guest:He, you know, and he had a habit, didn't he?
Guest:He did.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He definitely struggled, but he was so, you know, lovable in every other way.
Marc:It's so funny.
Marc:The first time I think I noticed him was when he plays the killer in talk radio in the film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was huge.
Guest:Like we all thought, wow, rockets, you did it, man.
Guest:You know, I mean, he had, he had parts in a lot of films and yeah, it's sad.
Guest:You know, I mean, he, he's been gone 20 years now, but yeah.
Guest:But yeah, he was quite the actor.
Marc:What about like Boghossian in those cats?
Marc:I mean, like, was that all, were they all contemporaries like Tom Noonan, Boghossian?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Tom Noonan, I knew a little bit.
Guest:And then we both worked on Mystery Train.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Eric, I didn't know at the time.
Guest:I kind of got to know him later, but yeah, but he was like, he was like one of the, one of the giants of that, you know, like that was, I think what, you know, people like Eric and Spaulding Gray.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That really had it down.
Guest:Like, I think that's what people...
Guest:really aspire to it you know like to have their own shows because mainly it was a lot of group group shows but those guys like spalding came out of the worcester group though right yes and the worcester group is another you know and they're still going strong and they're still like my theater group um you're there your theater group you're with them i think yeah i worked with them a little bit you know willem defoe worked with them for many years and um
Guest:when he first started making movies, I think when he was doing Platoon, they asked me to come in and do some of the things that he was doing in that show.
Guest:And then I got to do some other shows with them.
Guest:But Willem was, you know, he was one of the first guys that I remember seeing that didn't have any qualms about, you know, breaking out of the experimental world and
Guest:you know, like downtown and doing movies.
Guest:And he got a little flack for it too, you know, but, uh, for me, it was like, well, why not?
Guest:This is what he wants to do.
Guest:And he's, he's able to make a living and he's able to give back to the company.
Guest:And, and, uh, and I, you know, that was, that was a real example for me to follow.
Marc:Isn't it interesting about that flack?
Marc:I mean, who the fuck are those people?
Marc:I mean, I've been that guy.
Marc:I get where it comes from.
Marc:But it doesn't come from a place of principle.
Marc:It comes from some sort of weird, you know, attachment to something you think is...
Marc:freedom or rebellious or, you know, there's an immaturity to it.
Marc:I mean, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:But none of those, I shouldn't say none, but a lot of those people that were sort of like giving that flack, it doesn't end well for them.
Guest:I think we're in a much better place now because it seems like there is, you know, there's a lot more of people going back and forth between doing theater.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, there's not at some point it kind of broke down that, you know, that the integrity of who you are is not based on, you know, the project you're involved with necessarily.
Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And if if you're of a certain ilk, you can transcend it.
Marc:If you're not, then you become a hack.
Marc:And that was your destiny anyways.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But but but what about like did you do any of those Foreman plays?
Guest:I did a Richard Foreman play.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Miss Universal Happiness.
Guest:And we did it.
Guest:He used the booster group.
Guest:He used the whole booster group for that for that particular.
Marc:Who was in that crew at that time?
Guest:There was Kate Valk.
Guest:There was Ron Vaughter.
Guest:Willem was in it.
Marc:Frances McDormand?
Guest:No, Frances wasn't part of the group yet.
Guest:So she came a bit later.
Guest:But even Elizabeth LeCompte, who was the director of the Worcester Group, she also acted in that piece.
Yeah.
Marc:So it seemed like such amazing time because it's all gone now, Steve.
Marc:Like it's like like I caught the tail end of that because I was on the Lower East Side.
Marc:Eighty nine is when I really got to New York.
Marc:And it was already sort of like over that that whole sort of like whatever was going on through from the late 60s on into the early 80s.
Marc:you know, that generation of performers, it was sort of gone.
Marc:And there was a new crew, but, you know, it was a different generation almost.
Marc:And that whole sort of sense of what the Lower East Side stood for was already starting to buckle by the late 80s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I actually, you know, we actually moved to Brooklyn in like 91.
Guest:And I remember feeling like
Guest:okay, I think it is time to move on.
Guest:But also I think, you know, there were other pockets of, you know, things happening that I just, you know, just didn't know about.
Guest:I mean, I think the East Village at that time really was the place.
Guest:And of course things change, but then I loved how Brooklyn kind of became also, I mean, it took a while, but especially with like the music scene,
Guest:Brooklyn became like the new frontier for for that.
Guest:So it just, you know, part of it is just I aged out of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was so I'm so grateful that I was around at that at that time and in the middle of it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, where did you meet Jarmusch?
Marc:Was that was that a New York thing?
Guest:Yeah, like I met him and Sarah Driver at Rockets show.
Guest:You know, like that's how they knew of me.
Guest:That's how I knew of them.
Marc:And he was, was he a student?
Guest:He, no, he had, when I met him, I think he had already shot Stranger Than Paradise, but it hadn't come out yet.
Guest:You know, he just looked like a really interesting guy to me.
Guest:And Boone was the one who would tell me, like Boone knew everybody.
Guest:And he told me, oh yeah, that's Jarmusch.
Guest:And he did this and, you know.
Guest:I mean, at that time too, you know, if you were able to make a film, an independent film, that was halfway decent, it played in theaters for a while.
Guest:You know, I was just talking about this with somebody the other day.
Guest:There was a movie, Liquid Sky.
Guest:I don't know if you, yeah.
Guest:It played at the Waverly for like months, you know, it was pretty out there and, but it, but it played for a while.
Guest:When, when Jarmusch's film first came,
Guest:came out, it was very exciting because it was such a non-traditional, you know, film and it was in black and white and it's all master shots.
Guest:And we had never seen, or I mean, most people had never seen this cast before, you know, John Laurie, Richard Edson, Esther Ballant, Rockets, that it was exciting.
Guest:It meant, oh my God, he did it, you know, like,
Guest:it just inspired everybody.
Guest:Like, you know, we can do this and there's an audience out there for it.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I remember seeing it just being like, what the fuck is this?
Marc:And John, but he was part of the music scene there.
Marc:Like, did you know, like that whole no wave crew?
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:I mean, I, yeah, I, I, I,
Guest:I really wasn't part of that whole music, you know, scene.
Guest:Like I didn't, I met them all later, like Sonic Youth and, you know, like people in those, in those bands.
Guest:But yeah, the Lounge Lizards, I would see them all the time, you know, John Lurie and Evan,
Guest:what an amazing band that that they were and yeah there were a lot of you know i mean it all sort of kind of just intermingled you know performance art into bands and and nick zed nick zed yes i used to see him you know we used to go out and uh paper flyers you know like we would like
Guest:get the bucket of like paste and you put up your own flyers, you know, on construction sites or wherever you can.
Guest:And I would often see him and doing the same thing.
Guest:And there was a wonderful place called Dorinka.
Guest:friend of mine, Gary Ray, he had this little performance space in his basement apartment.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:And we would perform there.
Guest:And I remember Nick Zed showing all of his films there one night, and he's operating the projector and it would break down and
Guest:We'd have to wait for him to fix it.
Guest:And it was great.
Marc:Those were the days.
Marc:What about Julian Beck?
Guest:Yeah, well, that's the living theater.
Guest:I didn't really see too much of the living theater because they were kind of, you know, their heyday was really before my time, even though they kept doing work.
Guest:But Julian Beck was another one.
Guest:We had the same manager, Mark Amiton, and he represented Julian and he and Judith Molina.
Guest:and other people of like from downtown.
Guest:And he was helping us all get work, you know, like on Miami vice or,
Guest:the equalizer, you know, and these things would sustain us, you know, it would, you know, we were able to make some money and then go back to doing other things.
Marc:And, uh, he was the, he was the, uh, the, the, the Faustian valve for the Lower East Side artists.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, uh, were you, were you training as well, or is it just all hands on?
Guest:Well, I took acting classes when I was 17 or 18.
Guest:I went to the Lee Strasberg Theater Institute.
Guest:And I studied with John Strasberg, Lee's son, and John's wife at the time, Sabre Jones, and, you know, a few other teachers.
Guest:I went there for six months, you know, on like a full course thing, you know, like four acting classes a week, a voice class, a movement class.
Guest:And then eventually John sort of broke away from the Institute and started his own place.
Guest:And so I was with him on and off a few years.
Guest:But that was really beneficial because, you know, I basically grew up in Long Island, had no idea what the theater scene was in New York, didn't know anything about plays.
Guest:And so that was a big education.
Guest:education for me to like, just watch what other people were doing and learn about Eugene O'Neill, Tennessee Williams and get to, and get to do, just get to act, just get to, you know, be in a scene.
Marc:How much crossover when you did the firefighting, like when did you start to do that as a job and how were you managing acting and being a Lower East Side guy and being a, a New York city firefighter?
Guest:So when I first, you know, got on the job,
Guest:This was in November of 1980.
Guest:I just stopped doing everything.
Guest:I stopped doing stand-up.
Guest:I stopped taking acting classes.
Guest:I just figured, let me just do this for a while.
Guest:And I didn't tell anybody in the firehouse.
Guest:Engine 55, where I worked in Little Italy.
Guest:I just didn't tell anybody what I did.
Guest:They knew I was half a weirdo because I'd lived in the East Village.
Guest:None of them lived in the city.
Guest:They all live in Staten Island or Long Island.
Guest:And so that was their first clue.
Guest:And then I had this other firefighter from a different company, Engine 24, who
Guest:this firefighter that I had heard about, his name was Dean Tulipane, and he was an actor.
Guest:But the way they would talk about, oh, yeah, that guy Dean, he's a little, you know, he's whatever, you know, he's an actor, you know.
Guest:I could tell that they liked him, but they thought he was weird.
Guest:Anyway, when I first met Dean,
Guest:And he heard about me that I lived in his village.
Guest:He sort of outed me, you know, you know, he's like, well, what do you do?
Guest:Like, what?
Guest:Like, how can we live there?
Guest:Like, what are you an actor?
Guest:Are you a writer?
Guest:And I sheepish, sheepishly said that I was, you know, I had done some acting and stand up and the guys in my company looked at me like you.
Guest:Cause I was seriously, I was the quietest guy in the firehouse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The quiet break out of my shell and,
Guest:And then there were some firefighter parties where I would drink and be drunk enough to then get up on a chair and start doing a Don Rickles routine on everybody.
Guest:And it was risky, but they liked it.
Guest:You did it.
Guest:That got me over, yeah.
Marc:That's some risky stuff, man.
I know.
Marc:But so you stayed at you were at the you were with the the what do you call it?
Marc:The outfit, the unit, the the engine house for how long?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was I was there for for four years.
Guest:And in 1984, I got cast in an independent film called Parting Glances.
Guest:And I was also doing a play with John Jezerin, who I had worked with a lot.
Guest:And I just couldn't do all three things.
Guest:So I ended up taking a leave of absence from the fire department three months at first.
Guest:Then I would extend it for another three months and then another six months.
Guest:And then it just became clear, you know, my window of opportunity feels like it's now and I should take it and just and not go back.
Guest:So that's what I did.
Marc:It's interesting in that.
Marc:Could you have seen it being your life?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, sometimes I think, oh, maybe I should have done my 20 years and then retired.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But there was something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I remember even though I came to love the job,
Guest:I do remember like the night before I started, you know, and I did six weeks of training on Randall's Island where they have the fire academy.
Guest:I just remember the night before kind of just feeling down and thinking, all right, I guess I guess I'm not going to do acting.
Guest:I'm not going to do stand up.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:This is what I'm this is what I'm going to be doing now.
Guest:and feeling really depressed about it.
Guest:It turned out that I ended up loving the job.
Guest:But yeah, but just the thought of like, oh, I just became my dad.
Guest:Like, I just became like, I'm kind of, you know, is this, is this my path?
Guest:Not that there's anything wrong with what my dad did.
Guest:And I'm, you know, like, I'm so proud of what he was able to accomplish and provide
Guest:And to me, it was such an act of love for his sons that he wanted us, you know, he didn't quite, you know, think that we were college material, maybe, or maybe it was just he didn't want to pay for college.
Guest:But he was looking out for us, you know, he like, he just wanted to make sure that...
Guest:That we'd be okay.
Marc:Is he an immigrant?
Guest:No, I mean, both his parents were, but they came as kids.
Guest:But, you know, what's funny is that, you know, even though his parents were immigrants, they did not speak Italian in the house, and they were really intent on, you know, being Americans.
Guest:You know, because I think at that time, there was a lot of discrimination against Italians.
Guest:And so they really wanted their kids to be, you know, American.
Guest:And even myself, I mean, my mom's not Italian.
Guest:My mom, you know, is Irish, Dutch, English.
Guest:So growing up, I never really felt Italian.
Guest:You know, when I think of like my heritage...
Guest:I think Brooklyn, you know, like as if I'm from the nation of Brooklyn, you know, even though I ended up like moving away from Brooklyn when I was eight, but now I'm, I've been back in Brooklyn for the past 30 years.
Marc:So when 9-11 happened, did you go back to the house, the firehouse that you had started with to try to help?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What happened was the next day on the 12th, I still had my turnout coat and my helmet and
Guest:um, I just grabbed those things and I took the subway in to the Lower East Side, walked over to Engine 55 on Broom Street.
Guest:And, uh, because I wasn't, I just didn't have any information.
Guest:I kept calling the firehouse, you know, like the day before.
Guest:And of course there was, there was no answer because I knew that they would be there.
Guest:And, um,
Guest:Then I eventually learned that five of them were missing.
Guest:And one of them was a good friend of mine who I used to work with, Faust Apostle.
Guest:And then I was driven into the site that day.
Guest:walked around for hours and then found my company found engine 55 working there um and asked them if i could join them and uh they were i could tell they were a little suspicious at first you know like what are you doing here um but um but i worked with them that day and the captain
Guest:55 at that time, Captain Toomey.
Guest:At the end of the day, we all went back to the firehouse and he said, look, if you want to come back, you're welcome.
Guest:Just come to the firehouse early and we'll take you in.
Guest:And so I did that for the next few days.
Guest:I was so grateful because
Guest:So many people who were in New York at that time, you know, wanted to help.
Guest:And, you know, I mean, a lot of people gave blood, but there were just no victims.
Guest:There were no, you know, that, you know, it was just so devastating.
Guest:And people wanted to volunteer and did in, you know, a lot of ways, did whatever they could.
Guest:But I actually had, I was privileged enough to have access to the site and to be in the thick of it and to just experience that, the humanity of what was going on there.
Marc:And did you, have you experienced any health issues or did you experience any PTSD of any kind just from being down there?
Guest:Definitely.
Guest:I have not experienced any health issues and I get myself checked out, but definitely.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Post-traumatic stress.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Like when I, I was only there for like five days, but when I stopped going and, you know, sort of tried to just live my life again,
Guest:it was really, really hard.
Guest:I was depressed.
Guest:I was anxious.
Guest:I couldn't make a simple decision.
Guest:Yeah, all those things.
Guest:It's still with me.
Guest:There are times when I talk about 9-11 and I feel myself, I'm just right back there.
Guest:I start to get choked up and I realize, ah, this is still...
Guest:a big part of me.
Guest:And now that we're in our, you know, this is the 20th year anniversary.
Guest:Yeah, it's, I know that for a lot of people that were down there, it's definitely a trigger.
Guest:And yeah, so for the past, whatever, 10 or so years, or maybe longer, I've been working with this group called Friends of Firefighters.
Guest:And they provide free mental health services and counseling and
Guest:to firefighters, active, retired, and their families.
Guest:Because the first responders that were down there for a length of time, and a lot of them were there for months,
Guest:They didn't see their families.
Guest:They were going to funerals, you know, like all the time or they were at the site.
Guest:And survivor's guilt is, you know, was like a big factor.
Guest:You know, like why did they survive?
Guest:Like why a lot of guys were supposed to be working that day, but, you know, somebody else was working hard.
Guest:And were killed.
Guest:And so, yeah, I'd say that, you know, there's definitely like the health issues, you know, that are related to people being down there.
Guest:You know, definitely physical, but also mental.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, for sure.
Marc:Like I, you know, I it was the whole thing was so galvanizing and horrendous in a way, you know, around being I just remember being because I lived in Queens.
Marc:But there was something about being a New Yorker at that time that really felt deep.
Marc:I found myself being offended by people coming to New York to rubberneck the thing.
Marc:I remember feeling very angry that once they could get in, that all these people from the middle of the country were just coming to look at that smoking pit.
Marc:And I was like, it just felt intrusive and invasive to me.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:And it was hard for me to, once I stopped going down there, it was hard for me to see any images of it
Guest:or to be near it, or I didn't go again until like months and months later when the site was, um, you know, pretty much done, but they, but there was still cleanup to be done.
Guest:And I remember seeing one of my old lieutenants at engine 55, Ken Grabowski, and he was a chief now and he was kind of in charge of like a lot of that operation.
Guest:And, um,
Guest:It was just, you know, just knowing that he had been there that whole time and I had not been there for months and months and months.
Guest:And I could just see it in his face.
Guest:It's sort of, you know, it's just hard to describe, you know, like.
Guest:what these first responders, you know, went through being there that, you know, the ones that were there for months or the whole time and the after effects, you know, we've been experiencing is just, it's heartbreaking.
Marc:I just remember being at, you know,
Marc:Around people and being at meetings where, you know, people were like it was it just it just never ends for some people.
Marc:And that's really what that move, that documentary dust is about, you know, that that that day is every day.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:Do you find that this stuff, I mean, I guess it's hard to, because I've only seen you act to be a firefighter in that one film, the Judd Apatow film.
Guest:Yeah, that was the first time I ever played a firefighter, which was kind of fun, because that was kind of like, oh, this is what I would be doing had I stayed on the job.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you knew the guys that were the real firefighters that were there?
Guest:some of them yeah yeah um and uh but it was great to be in a movie with pete davidson and knowing his real background yeah and you know and then in the film i've you know playing someone who knew his dad you know yeah that was it was really that was really special and what i loved about that film you know so so many kids lost lost their parents right and
Guest:For the ones, you know, like the firefighters kids, if you were a young kid, you know, all of a sudden your, you know, your dad is like put on this pedestal.
Guest:I mean, rightly so.
Guest:But what that does to a kid, I think it's like, I'll never measure up.
Guest:I'll never, you know, I never got to know my dad and I'll never be able to measure up.
Guest:And what I love about that film is that
Guest:Pete's dad in the movie was, you know, somewhat of a goofball and an asshole, you know, and that's when Pete learns that, you know, when Pete, when Pete's character learns that and thinks, oh, my dad was like me, you know, my dad was just like, just like me, you know, that sort of humanized him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, so rightly so that, you know, that, that, that these, the first responders and the ones that we lost were,
Guest:are, you know, put up on a pedestal.
Guest:I think it's also we have to be careful not to mythologize them too much as being like these, you know, like super beings.
Guest:They, you know, and any firefighter, any first responder, anybody that we lost on that day, they experienced fear.
Guest:They, you know, they did their job, but you know that it had to be, you know, that it was fearful.
Guest:I mean, how do you go into a situation like that?
Guest:You have to overcome that.
Guest:You know, that to me is what the true heroism is, is that they, you
Marc:fears and did their job anyway they just went up into those buildings the burning buildings so many of them went up it's just it's like it chokes me up now as watching that thing and just to you know to know that so many of them were up in that building heading up heading up and walking you know
Guest:walking up all those flights with their heavy equipment and a a whole length of hose because you have to bring that into and you know and then seeing the people running out in panic you know and but you're going up you know or you're helping people out and um and it was not a quick evacuation by any means you know it was it was uh it took it took a long time and
Guest:It was an incredible rescue mission.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:that they got that many people out yeah so like so now this is you're directing the film you're working on now yes so it's been a bit huh it's been a while since i've directed a film i've been i've been yeah the last one i did was in 2009 interview and but i've been directing you know some uh tv in the last few years and i've been lucky enough to direct on the show that i do miracle workers and
Guest:That's been that's been fun.
Guest:And it's always good to sort of exercise that muscle.
Guest:Because I don't really feel like a director, you know, I, I've, I've, I've done it, you know, over the years, but I don't do it enough to feel like I know what I'm doing.
Guest:You know, it's always like a learning experience every time I do it.
Marc:How do you choose the, you know, like you do a lot of comedy and you have these relationships with certain people like the Coens.
Marc:It seems like you have a relationship with Adam Sandler.
Marc:You know, how do you decide, you know, I mean, you work all the time.
Marc:You're one of these, you know, and now as I've done a little bit of acting, I know when
Marc:You know, you look at a resume and you see someone's done seven films in a year.
Marc:Sometimes that's only a couple of weeks work, you know.
Marc:Right.
Marc:How do you decide what you're going to do?
Marc:You don't it doesn't seem like you take anything.
Guest:In the beginning, I did.
Guest:In the beginning, I just wanted the experience.
Guest:I just wanted to work.
Guest:And I was lucky that I got to work with people who were just coming up like Jim Jarmusch and the Coen brothers and Tarantino.
Guest:A lot of films, you know, that I just wanted to be on a set and be working.
Guest:And it didn't really matter the part I was playing to some extent.
Guest:I mean, you know, I had to relate to it in some way, but I mean, I'm much more discerning now.
Guest:And I feel grateful and lucky that I'm able to be more choosy.
Guest:But in the beginning, yeah, it was just, I just want to work.
Marc:But it's interesting because you were there at the beginning for the Coens, for Jarmusch and Tarantino.
Guest:That was incredible to get to work on Quentin's first film.
Guest:And it certainly didn't feel like his first film.
Guest:I'm just, I was so impressed that he had so much confidence in
Guest:As a first time director that I was like, how does he do that?
Guest:You know, like we'd be shooting a scene and in the
Guest:Stage direction, it said, you know, camera is on Mr. White.
Guest:The camera stays on Mr. White.
Guest:Slow push in.
Guest:And while Mr. Pink, you know, like motor mouth, Mr. Pink is off camera.
Guest:Just, you know, we got to the set that day and we're shooting the scene just as he, you know, described it.
Guest:And then, of course, the producers and, you know, whoever else was saying, OK, we got it just for safety.
Guest:Why don't you turn the camera around and shoot Steve and shoot Mr. Pink?
Guest:Quinn.
Guest:No, no, I got it.
Guest:I'm never going to use it.
Guest:You know, well, you know, when you get to the editing room, you might feel different.
Guest:Nope.
Guest:Nope.
Guest:I got it.
Guest:Let's move on.
Guest:It's done.
Guest:I was like, wow.
Guest:How do you, where, where does that confidence come from?
Guest:And of course he was right, but it was amazing.
Marc:He had his vision.
Marc:Wasn't he supposed to play your part?
Marc:Well, I think he wrote Mr. Pink for himself.
Guest:And yeah,
Guest:I still don't know how they really landed on me because I know that there were other people that they went out to and maybe other people, you know, maybe turned it down or weren't available.
Guest:But I know that he wanted to play it.
Guest:I don't know if he was talked out of it, but somehow it landed to me.
Guest:And the way that Quentin told me about it,
Guest:we were doing a workshop at Sundance for Reservoir Dogs and, you know, like a lot of other films and where they have mentors and, and then they invite these filmmakers who are doing their, their first films.
Guest:So I was invited to go, but on the condition was that I didn't necessarily have the part.
Guest:So I thought, well, okay, I'll, I'll go anyway.
Guest:I mean, I may not be cast in this movie, but at least I get to do that.
Guest:And,
Guest:You know, I was working with Quentin and then we were taking a bathroom break.
Guest:And in the bathroom, as we're both peeing, he turns to me and he says, oh, by the way.
Guest:you got the part.
Guest:You got the part of Mr. Pink.
Guest:I'm like, what?
Guest:Oh, thanks.
Guest:I couldn't even shake his hand.
Guest:You know, I was like, that's how I learned it.
Marc:Because, I mean, you did a couple of movies with him, but you did a lot of movies with the Coens.
Marc:And you came up together.
Marc:It seems like you grew up, your evolution as an actor is parallel with the evolution of American independent film, you know, post-1980.
Guest:Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Guest:You never know
Guest:when you're working on something, you know, you get close to the people you work with.
Guest:I mean, I do.
Guest:And, but you never know if that's going to translate into your personal lives.
Guest:Sometimes it overlaps and some, you know, but yeah, I think, you know, like the people who I've stayed friendly with, Jim Jarmusch and Sarah Driver, other people that like Alexander Rockwell, I did this movie in the soup with, and we've stayed friendly.
Guest:friends and i've worked you know and i've you know worked in many of his films um you just never know i mean so there is yeah i mean i had a small circle of friends but it's not necessarily all the people that i've worked with but when we see each other even if we haven't seen each other for years it's always it's always nice to have that that feeling of hey we did you know we did something good together
Marc:Yeah, I get that.
Marc:Because I don't know why, even after being in some television myself and doing some movies, some part of my brain wants to believe that everybody remains friends forever.
Marc:And honestly, sometimes it's the last time you see those people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:It is weird.
Marc:It's like its own.
Marc:It actually has its own full life when you shoot something like you when you're done.
Marc:A lot of times you're thinking like that life is now done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I used to go, you know, it used to be whenever I ended a film.
Guest:Especially if I was on location, you know, and then come back home for days, I would be depressed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not knowing why I was like, I just had this incredible experience.
Guest:Why am I so down now?
Guest:Why am I, you know, and it took me a while to realize, oh, I'm going to go through this every time.
Guest:I'm just missing everybody.
Guest:I'm missing the experience.
Guest:It's over.
Guest:I may not ever see those people again.
Guest:And you're right.
Guest:Sometimes you don't.
Guest:Sometimes you get really close to somebody you're working with.
Guest:And then for whatever reason,
Guest:What happened?
Guest:I don't like I thought we were friends and it just kind of, you know, it just dissipates, you know, sometimes it's because I live in New York, they live in L.A.
Guest:And then, you know, you just don't see each other.
Marc:It's sort of the liability of the job of the actor is that, you know, you're going to invest emotionally in this thing.
Marc:And I think that I'm just thinking about this now out loud that, you know, you share.
Marc:something fairly profound and, and I guess in some ways it has to remain on the set, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's true.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I, well, I, I'll tell you, I mean, we're about done here and I, you know, I'll, I'll see you again.
Marc:I, you know, I'm, I'm more than happy to hang out.
Guest:I'm sorry I couldn't get to your studio, but I do hope that, uh,
Guest:We can see each other in person, but we may never talk again.
Guest:I mean, that is the reality.
Marc:That's true, Steve.
Marc:We might not.
Marc:But if I see, I'll... This is, you know, it's interesting because like...
Marc:This is nice.
Marc:If I see you, I'll say hi and you'll probably know me and everything.
Marc:But like, I swear to God, I interviewed because you brought up Defoe.
Marc:I interviewed Defoe and I don't think it went well.
Marc:Like, I mean, he came over and I don't know what it was.
Marc:I don't know what kind of guy he is, you know, to his friends or anything, but I think I rubbed him the wrong way.
Marc:And I saw him at the Independent Spirit Awards.
Marc:And, like, I know on some level, to some people, I'm just another journalist who talked to them.
Marc:I can't remember most of them that I've talked to.
Marc:So I'm willing to entertain the idea that I'm not that memorable to people I talk to.
Marc:But I saw him at, like, the Indie Spirit Awards, and I looked at him, and he looked at me, and I swear to God it was contempt.
Marc:It wasn't – I don't –
Marc:It wasn't like, who's that guy?
Marc:Why is he looking at me?
Marc:It was like, that fucker.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But I don't think it's going to happen.
Guest:I hope I remember when I see him again.
Guest:Because sometimes I go years without seeing him.
Guest:I hope I remember to ask him about this.
Marc:Yeah, ask him.
Marc:Do you remember Marc Maron?
Marc:He'll be like, yeah, that guy didn't know my work.
Marc:He was annoying.
Marc:I don't know what else.
Marc:It'd be interesting.
Marc:So wait, if you hear anything, you let me know.
Guest:Okay, I will.
Marc:All right, Steve, good talking to you.
Guest:Thank you so much, Mark.
Guest:Really enjoyed it.
Marc:Steve Buscemi, folks.
Marc:Heavy stuff, good man.
Marc:The documentary, Dust, the Lingering Legacy of 9-11.
Marc:You can go get information on how to watch that at dust-doc.com.
Marc:Now I'm going to rock my new Explorer guitar.
Marc:My new Banker Explorer.
Marc:Banker does a replica of the Karina Gibson Explorer.
Marc:This thing is fucking.
Marc:These pickups, man.
Marc:They make me want to do this.
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guitar solo
Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.
Marc:Here they come.
Marc:Coming down fast.