Episode 1256 - Kimmy Gatewood
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast how's everybody doing you okay i'm a little sweaty i'm a little uh i don't know man charlie watts is dead but it's weird i uh
Marc:I love Charlie.
Marc:I love the Rolling Stones.
Marc:I listen to the Rolling Stones probably every week, at least once a week on purpose, not in passing, not as part of a playlist.
Marc:I will listen to Rolling Stones records all the way through.
Marc:I listen to Get Your Ya-Ya's Out over and over again a few months ago when I was hiking.
Marc:I've been listening to Blue and Lonesome a lot.
Marc:For some reason, I do listen to that Get Your Yaya's Out because that is where I really first understood the power of Charlie.
Marc:Oddly, it's on that live record.
Marc:And oddly, it was on a reissue of that live record.
Marc:There was a slight remix done.
Marc:I don't even know if the Stones like those reissues, but I think the Abco reissues.
Marc:And I remember I got it a few years back.
Marc:And I used to listen to that album all the time, Get Your Ya-Ya's Out.
Marc:Yeah, because it's a great live album.
Marc:It's one of the best live albums.
Marc:Because during those breaks, during Midnight Rambler, you heard about the Boston.
Marc:And if you turned it up right there, you'll hear some guy go, God damn!
Marc:And a woman go, just scream.
Marc:And they do it through all the breaks.
Marc:God damn.
Marc:But I think I think what what really struck me on the remix was just how fucking tight that rhythm section was, just how fucking tight Bill and Charlie were and realizing that without that, everything is a fucking disaster.
Marc:Like Keith, as great as he is, famously one of the great rhythm guitar players.
Marc:And I started thinking about that.
Marc:Look, man, I love Keith.
Marc:I love Keith.
Marc:I love them all.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I miss Bill.
Marc:I wasn't going to go see the Stones a few years ago with Dino because I just didn't feel right seeing him without Bill.
Marc:But Dean talked me into it.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:Daryl's great.
Marc:But the thing about the rhythm section and hearing Keith talk about Charlie and their sort of unspoken kind of understanding of each other performatively.
Marc:is that Keith without Charlie and Bill would just be chaos.
Marc:You know, it would sound, you know, disorganized, kind of like fragmented and stilted that Keith Richards, his entire sense of rhythm that evolved over time is only because of Charlie Watts and finding those holes and finding that place to float on Charlie's jam.
Marc:And Charlie fucking had to follow Keith.
Marc:And you don't even notice that.
Marc:And that's got to be a chore at different points in time.
Marc:So without Charlie, you got nothing.
Marc:You get no stones.
Marc:I mean, look, you know, obviously, if they decide to tour and Steve Jordan goes out with him, I mean, he's a great drummer.
Marc:But I mean, throughout the whole thing that there's no really Charlie is one of the most solid beats, keepers of time there is.
Marc:And he can swing and stay on top of it at the same time.
Marc:It's crazy how good he was.
Marc:But if you really want to listen to.
Marc:You know, to the subtlety and the genius of that rhythm section of Charlie and Bill specifically.
Marc:Give a listen to that.
Marc:Get your yaya's out and listen close because they're holding it together.
Marc:Charlie's holding the whole fucking thing together.
Marc:How do you think Ronnie and Keith can do all that messy fucking slop that they do without Charlie kind of like just be in the bedrock?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Charlie was great.
Marc:And just a real suave motherfucker too.
Marc:Great drummer.
Marc:Great Rolling Stone.
Marc:One out of five.
Marc:Gone.
Marc:Hmm.
Marc:Great, great charmer.
Marc:God, I'm going to miss him.
Marc:I mean, I still got him.
Marc:I still got all those fucking records.
Marc:I got all those records.
Marc:Charlie never leaves, and he lived a good life, and he lived a long life, especially for a rock dude.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Rest in peace, Charlie Watts.
Marc:Godspeed.
Marc:Swing it.
Marc:I forgot to tell you who's on the show because I wanted to honor Charlie.
Marc:Today, I'm going to talk to Kimmy Gatewood.
Marc:She is one of my co-stars or was one of my co-stars on Glow.
Marc:She played one half of the Stacey and Dawn duo with her real life comedy partner, Rebecca Johnson.
Marc:And.
Marc:Actually, Kimmy and Rebecca were honestly very early comedy podcast adopters when they turned their Apple Sisters act, which was their bit, into one of the early scripted comedy podcasts.
Marc:Kimmy's been directing a lot of television lately, and she just directed her first feature film, the Eliza Schlesinger movie Good on Paper, which is now on Netflix.
Marc:And it was good to see her, to reminisce, to reminisce.
Marc:We reminisced.
Marc:Before I forget, on my tour, I've added some shows.
Marc:First of all, Helium in St.
Marc:Louis, September 16th, 17th and 18th.
Marc:You can get tickets for that.
Marc:The Neptune in Seattle, September 22nd is available.
Marc:I might add a second show if that sells out.
Marc:The Aladdin Theater in Portland is sold out, but I've added another show.
Marc:That's on September 24th.
Marc:I just want to give you a heads up.
Marc:The Dynasty Typewriter Show, October 4th.
Marc:I'm not sure if there's tickets for that.
Marc:There might be.
Marc:New York Comedy Festival is now on sale for everyone.
Marc:That's November 13th at Town Hall.
Marc:Get tickets for that.
Marc:OK, that's the update on that.
Marc:Good deal.
Marc:So I've been festering about this thing on my finger primarily because here's the deal.
Marc:You know, I've become somewhat resilient to trolling, but you know, I am not that resilient to suggestions about certain things that are actually worse for me than trolling.
Marc:Like I was on my Instagram on Instagram live and I've got this thing I'm under my fingernail on my index finger and
Marc:And someone on the Instagram live said you should get that check for melanoma.
Marc:So that was actually some of the finest trolling that I've ever been victim to, because it's not finding my weakness around insecurity or jealousy or any of that shit.
Marc:And it's not it's not really those kind of plain triggers of people with entertainers egos.
Marc:uh that you can get all worked up it was something more refined than that and i don't think it was the intention of the person that said it to troll me but it just i was like looked at my finger and i'm like what is that i mean yeah it looked like i banged my finger but i wasn't sure if i banged my finger because i don't remember banging my finger so i started to look at it and then i of course googled just a touch just a tad fingernail melanoma
Marc:Melanoma under nail didn't quite look like what I got, but, you know, enough for me to start festering and then for me to start thinking about melanoma and about how long would it take?
Marc:Did it spread?
Marc:What is going on?
Marc:How do you get it out of there?
Marc:That was my biggest thing.
Marc:So I started festering about how if they have to get even if it wasn't melanoma, what do you get?
Marc:How do you got to get something out from under a finger?
Marc:So because of my ability to spiral, especially with hypochondriacal panic, you know, I started to think like, well, I mean, if it hasn't spread, which it probably has.
Marc:So I'm probably got cancer, which means like I got to start that fight.
Marc:And I was just starting to enjoy my life.
Marc:So that's probably going to happen.
Marc:And do I really want to die that way?
Marc:So I might want to start thinking, you know, sort of.
Marc:kind of frankly and honestly about you know ending my own life because i really don't want to just rot away of cancer by myself uh i got to get my affairs in order and what okay let's say it hasn't spread so then do i just lose the finger do i lose the tip of the finger am i going to be incapacitated right when i started enjoying playing guitar and playing out and doing this stuff is now when i have to adjust to playing with partial finger with just part of my index finger on my fret hand
Marc:Do I have to make that adjustment?
Marc:Would I make that adjustment?
Marc:I'm not a professional musician.
Marc:Why would I make the commitment of trying to play with three and a half fingers?
Marc:No one's going to give a shit about that miracle.
Marc:I'm pretty limited player and I'll just be the same limited player only with a half a finger on my index finger and maybe I'll get away with it.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:And what is that going to look good?
Marc:Cosmetically, are they going to be able?
Marc:Am I going to have some weird kind of tiny nail sticking out of the top?
Marc:Am I going to be ashamed of my hand?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:So when am I going to the doctor?
Marc:So I started to spin out.
Marc:And then, you know, on the plane, I started pulling my cuticle back on the bottom so I could see how deep down the melanoma went and just, you know, how much damage you're going to have to do to the finger if they have to sort of cut off the top or scoop it out.
Marc:And then I kind of like I fucked up my cuticle looking at that.
Marc:And then I just went into full on panic and I was like, well, I don't even know the doctor I'm going to really on Wednesday.
Marc:Are they going to give a shit about me?
Marc:They're part of my plan.
Marc:I've been there before.
Marc:But I'm starting to think that some doctors, they just kind of blow through shit and they just kind of like you're not, you know, they care to a certain degree.
Marc:But I guess some of the lessons I learned when Lynn passed away is that these doctors can be pretty passive.
Marc:They have nothing invested in you if you don't have a relationship with them.
Marc:You're just, you know, something that happens.
Marc:You're just part of their day.
Marc:Something that happens.
Marc:They do their job.
Marc:If you die, they don't know you if you don't have a relationship with them.
Marc:So then I start freaking about about the doctor I got to see.
Marc:And I'm telling Dean this and he's like, I got a guy.
Marc:I got a dermatologist.
Marc:So I went to Dean's guy who's kind of a whiz, knows the shit.
Marc:And he looked at my finger and he said, oh, yeah, that's not melanoma.
Marc:I'm ninety nine point nine percent sure that's not melanoma.
Marc:Looks like you banged it or something.
Marc:Let's get the microscope out.
Marc:So we got it under the microscope.
Marc:He's like, yeah, I mean, how long has it been there?
Marc:I'm like a few weeks.
Marc:He's like, if you would have told me that's been there for a year, maybe I'd be concerned if that was a melanoma that size.
Marc:It would have had to have been there about a year.
Marc:And it looks like you banged it.
Marc:You bruised it.
Marc:But why is the cuticle all inflamed?
Marc:I'm like, oh, because I was pulling it down with my other fingers so I could see how deep the melanoma was.
Marc:He's like, oh, well, I'm going to have to give you a prescription for some cream for that so it doesn't get infected.
Marc:So in my panic, I might have injured myself.
Marc:So what's new?
Marc:What's new?
Marc:Poking and prodding, poking and prodding.
Marc:But I also had some other realizations about mortality.
Marc:I realized that whatever the case is, and thanks to my friend, Dean, my friend, Sam, my friend, Kit, for talking me through somewhat of a spiral that, you know, that I'm going to get something.
Marc:If I don't die quickly, I'm probably going to die of something.
Marc:and I'm 57 years old, and I gotta sort of grow up around that.
Marc:I certainly have a handle on the idea of mortality.
Marc:I've certainly seen death up close now, but something's gonna happen.
Marc:And how you handle that is gonna speak to who you are, your sense of character.
Marc:And one of the things I realized when I was panicking and dragging other people into my panic around my non-melanoma under my nail and what that was implying to me in my head and how it triggered my fear was that I know people with real sickness.
Marc:I know people living with real sickness and they live with real sickness and they do what they have to do to manage that sickness.
Marc:And that's part of life.
Marc:And for me to spin out as if anyone's going to make me feel better.
Marc:I mean, when the shit really comes down, it's going to come down.
Marc:This wasn't that time.
Marc:And not panicking is probably the better way to do it.
Marc:And I thought I'd sort of had a handle on that.
Marc:I've been I've been more of a hypochondriac in my life, but I just usually I think like, well, wait a few days and see what happens.
Marc:And that's usually what I do.
Marc:But the nature of these type of bruises under the nail, they take months to go away.
Marc:So that that was that approach wasn't going to work.
Marc:So I'm giving myself a pass on that.
Marc:But just realize when you're freaking out about probably nothing.
Marc:that you should be handling as a grownup.
Marc:It's important to get things checked out and to realize that you can and should do that when you have something you're concerned about.
Marc:But try not to freak out prematurely because you're gonna have to go call all those people that you freaked out and say, yeah, I'm all right, thanks.
Marc:Thanks for letting me drag you down the panic hole.
Marc:So this is me talking to my friend, Kimmy Gatewood, who is the director of Good on Paper.
Marc:It's a Eliza Schlesinger movie.
Marc:She's also was in Glow with me and has directed a lot of other stuff.
Marc:And there's some comedy of her out there.
Marc:There's stuff.
Marc:There's stuff.
Marc:And this is me talking to Kimmy.
Marc:This is the longest we've ever talked to her and I, actually.
Marc:So you're making jam.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this is pre-pandemic too, so.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The jamming was pre-pandemic.
Marc:Oh, so you can say like, so you have to qualify it like that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:This was not done out of fear and sadness.
Marc:This was done because of an abundance, an abundance of things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, the bread my husband making was made out of fear and sadness.
Guest:He did the bread?
Guest:He did the whole bread.
Guest:He's still doing it.
Marc:Oh, no.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's got two different starters.
Guest:One, the bestia starter.
Guest:He started that one.
Marc:Where'd he get that?
Marc:From Bestia?
Guest:No, he got, I mean, he started it.
Guest:They have a recipe for it that you can follow.
Marc:I've never been there.
Marc:You know, I just went to their other restaurant yesterday.
Guest:To Pavel.
Guest:A Bavel?
Marc:Yeah, however you say it.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:I never go to restaurants because I cook and I'm so disappointed at restaurants.
Marc:Because usually you're like, what is this?
Marc:I could make this.
Marc:It's not amazing, so fuck it.
Marc:But that place is amazing.
Marc:It's so nice to go to a place and you eat something like, I could never make this.
Marc:This is like magic food.
Guest:And if you get their cookbook, they have like egg yolks that take like days to cure.
Marc:For Bevelle?
Guest:Bestia.
Guest:Oh, Bestia.
Guest:Bestia has a cookbook.
Marc:And that's Italian, right?
Guest:It's like Mediterranean Italian.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Slash.
Marc:Is it amazing?
Guest:It's very amazing.
Guest:I don't eat, like, they have a bone marrow dish.
Guest:I don't eat meat, but I eat fish, so they have this octopus.
Guest:A what dish?
Guest:A bone marrow dish.
Guest:Oh, yeah, it's rough, man.
Guest:Everyone is obsessed with it.
Guest:It's like, they scoop the bone marrow out, and then there's a whole pasta thing.
Marc:You know, oh, there's pasta involved?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because, like...
Marc:Back in, back in.
Marc:Yeah, because it's like the straight up bone marrow thing where people just scoop it out of the bone.
Marc:Things don't bother me, but there's something about that, the consistency of it.
Marc:Not great, not great.
Marc:But I like fish.
Marc:Tell me about the fish.
Guest:Oh, it's an octopus.
Guest:But it's been sitting around and soft.
Marc:I like how that's a selling point.
Marc:This stuff is rotten.
Marc:It's on the verge of going bad, and it's just how we like it.
Guest:It's perfect.
Guest:It's pickled and oiled.
Marc:Yeah, I love octopus.
Guest:I love it.
Marc:But it's all over the place now.
Marc:I don't know how that is.
Marc:I start to doubt that.
Marc:It's not one of those things like, is this fresh?
Marc:Of course not.
Marc:It was frozen, and then we did the thing to it, and here you go.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I feel bad.
Marc:I didn't watch the octopus show.
Marc:you know uh my octopus teacher no i how was i gonna eat octopus after that i just knew right away from the trailer i'm like if i watch this no more octopus for me i don't know if that's she was my best friend and my teacher and i watched her give birth and i'm like oh god yeah but that bestia dish is still good yeah it's like uh you can't i know i i won't watch this stuff i should probably not eat meat i don't know
Guest:I mean, you know, I started I became a vegan because this guy was dating back in New York was vegan.
Guest:But he was the kind of vegan that ate like all that fake meat.
Guest:So like I was just like farting all the time.
Marc:Nice.
Marc:That's the test of a relationship.
Marc:Did that make or break it?
Marc:The farting?
Guest:You know, we were OK for a while.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I moved into his apartment, it was nice.
Marc:And you're both just vegan farting?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Great.
Marc:Well, you know, if you can overcome that hurdle, it's not nothing.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you got to, you got to.
Guest:Yeah, and then we moved into another apartment in Williamsburg, and it was an empty place, it was a bakery, and then it became a bar, and that pretty much broke our relationship because it was just open until four in the morning.
Guest:That was noisy.
Guest:Yeah, I had that crazy person fantasy where I would drill holes in the basement.
Guest:You know, on the floorboards and like pour water down.
Marc:Oh, is that bad?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Nightmare.
Marc:I thought, well, that's better than like, well, it's open till four, so we were both drinking.
Marc:Roll out of bed in the morning.
Guest:You guys open yet?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're just upstairs.
Marc:Knock on the ceiling when you're ready to serve.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So, were you living back in New York?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so I went to Syracuse University, graduated in 2000, and came to New York right after that.
Marc:But you don't live here?
Guest:I live in LA.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah, I moved to LA in 2008.
Marc:So where does it all start?
Marc:Where'd you grow up?
Guest:In Maryland.
Marc:Maryland?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't talk to many people from Maryland.
Guest:So I'm between Baltimore and D.C.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Virginia's close to Maryland, right?
Guest:It is, yeah.
Guest:There's something called the Delmarva Peninsula, which is Delaware, Maryland, Virginia.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:And then there's Pennsylvania nearby.
Marc:Delaware's one of the states where you're like, did we go through it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My favorite bit always is that Wayne's World bit where he's like, Delaware, we're in Delaware.
Guest:I love it so much.
Marc:I don't know if I, it's, oh, the Delaware River Gap.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Big bridge, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Pretty.
Guest:Yeah, there's the Chesapeake Bay.
Marc:Oh, that's Delaware, too?
Guest:No, that's Maryland.
Marc:Oh, so how far into Maryland are you?
Marc:Is that an east-west situation?
Guest:Well, you know, Maryland is a very oddly shaped state.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's like the little cranky little thin part.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then there's the part that kind of hooks over in the Chesapeake Bay.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Is in the middle of it.
Guest:So I'm, like I said, between Washington, D.C.
Guest:and Baltimore.
Guest:Right.
Guest:My dad grew up in Washington, D.C., one of 13 children.
Guest:So I have lots of aunts and uncles.
Guest:13?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's crazy.
Marc:From one woman?
Guest:They were Catholic, as you can imagine, but Opus Dei Catholic, which is like the Da Vinci Code crazies type.
Guest:I mean, I don't know if they like.
Marc:What, your dad was that?
Guest:My dad was, I mean, his parents were.
Marc:So Opus Dei's been around that long?
Guest:Yeah, it's been around for a while.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:But my dad had me, he had a kid when he was like 17 or 18.
Guest:Because he had to.
Guest:Yeah, he could get out.
Marc:There's no going back.
Guest:And then he had me when he was like 20.
Guest:So he, I have a half brother.
Guest:No, I have a half brother.
Guest:And then I have two other siblings, but my mom.
Marc:So the half brother was like, oops.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't even find out about him until I was like 13, and then he was in our life for about four years, and then we didn't hear from him after that.
Guest:Still?
Guest:Yeah, I still, I looked for him on Facebook.
Guest:I found him once, and then I lost him again.
Marc:Did you reach out?
Guest:I think I was too afraid to reach out when I was looking.
Guest:It's weird, right.
Marc:Well, what was the story there?
Marc:How did that happen with you?
Guest:I think it was- They weren't married, I think?
Guest:No, yeah.
Guest:Oh, it was one of those.
Guest:Yeah, and then she decided to keep the baby, and then-
Guest:I really need to dig in with my dad about that.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I didn't really ask.
Guest:Because it happened, like I said, when I was 13.
Guest:That's when he found out.
Guest:Yeah, and then I was off in college.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what we need to find out and what we don't.
Guest:I don't know either.
Yeah.
Marc:It just seems that because with fairly little effort, the information is out there now.
Marc:And people find out things when they do genetic testing.
Marc:A lot of people are finding out that they have half-brothers.
Marc:They've got to be like, Mom, what is that?
Guest:Accident.
Guest:It was a mistake.
Guest:We thought we took care of it, but now you untook care of it.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:We put it up for adoption.
Marc:I don't even know the kid.
Guest:The part that creeps me out the most, I think, is like the sperm donor, egg donor of it all.
Guest:Of these doctors?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:I'll just use mine.
Guest:No.
Marc:Yeah, I'm going to have an army of people.
Guest:Oh, it's so creepy.
Guest:Why do they talk like that, too?
Marc:Use mine.
Marc:Yeah, like, I've got plenty.
Marc:I can generate this stuff every day.
Marc:Who's going to be the wiser?
Marc:They didn't know about 23andMe.
Marc:All they knew is in their hearts that there were 20 kids somewhere.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:yeah right to know that i know it's wild messed up and i'm like what if they get married yeah what if they just oh the two kids yeah wow i didn't think of that brain instantly goes to that one of 13 you're like i have so many cousins they have to make sure they're not a gate one exactly gotta do a genetic screening just to date a person in the area so dc opus day were government no no
Guest:in government?
Guest:No, my sister works for the government now.
Marc:But your dad's family, the large Catholic family?
Guest:No, they did like, my fascinating story, my grandmother grew up in Las Vegas.
Guest:She was a part, like her dad was the owner, or the president of the Nevada Bank, so they were like socialites in Las Vegas for a long time.
Guest:From the beginning?
Guest:Yeah, like, yeah.
Guest:He was like,
Marc:In the heyday.
Guest:Yeah, indeed in the heyday.
Guest:I mean, there's so many stories about my grandmother.
Guest:There's like that my great-grandfather got the job because he had nice handwriting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, he worked his way up to be president of Nevada Bank.
Guest:And then the other story, she's like, I lived across from Bugsy, and I'm like, really, grandma?
Marc:Yeah, so did everybody.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It's like Barbara Streisand's mom in Brooklyn or whoever that is.
Marc:We lived right across from Barbara's mother.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:I don't know if it's Queens.
Marc:Maybe it's Flushing or something.
Marc:Everybody's, like, down the street from Barry Manilow.
Marc:The Jew thing is, you know, Barbra Streisand's parents, Barry Manilow's parents.
Guest:He lives all over New York.
Marc:But Bugsy's cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And then she met my grandfather, who was a life insurance salesman and then had 13 children.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Just, like, the heyday of Las Vegas quietly disappeared from our family.
Marc:What 13?
Marc:Do you know all of them?
Guest:Yeah, I know all of them.
Guest:They all came to my wedding.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That is insane.
Guest:I love them.
Guest:It is so cool to be a part of a family that big.
Marc:And so how many cousins?
Marc:90?
Guest:Probably at this point.
Guest:Right?
Guest:I mean, because the cousins have cousins, you know, and like, it's a lot.
Guest:Like the last I checked, I think it was 47.
Marc:That's amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, I'm sort of fascinated with the Opus Dei thing, but it sounds like you're a generation removed from it.
Guest:I am.
Guest:I am.
Guest:I don't know too much about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my dad wasn't really into it.
Guest:I mean, I was raised Catholic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just because that's, like, what had to happen.
Guest:Like, my parents were, like, banished from being married.
Guest:They had to elope.
Guest:Oh, they did?
Guest:Why?
Guest:Until she became... Religion.
Guest:Yeah, until she became Catholic.
Marc:Oh, so you... Is it hard to become Catholic?
Guest:Eh.
Marc:Latin involved, rituals, robes, smoking orbs.
Guest:Just like a lot of kneeling and standing and kneeling and standing.
Marc:Eating the crackers.
Guest:Yeah, eating the crackers.
Guest:My other grandma, my mom's mom was Baptist, so that's what my mom was.
Marc:Oh, that's a lot more, that's a modern, more exciting religion.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, it was pretty fun.
Guest:So in the Catholic church, we had wine.
Marc:Droney music.
Marc:And the Baptist church was a little more lively.
Guest:Lively, but they had grape juice.
Guest:So that was less fun.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:Because when you were a kid, you got a little sip of wine.
Marc:Yeah, no, we did that.
Marc:The Jews did that, you know, after services.
Marc:A little Mogan David.
Marc:That's where it starts for a lot of Jewish junkies.
Guest:Oh, no.
Marc:Strung out Jew blues players.
Marc:Well, is that bar mitzvah wine?
Yeah.
Guest:Matt, my favorite Jewish holiday is definitely Passover, but only like one day of Passover.
Guest:Are you married to a Jew or something?
Guest:No, no, but I have, I dated a lot of Jews and also like be friends, being a comedy, but like loved going to Passover.
Guest:Do you remember the Purim show they used to do with Rob Kuttner at the Y in New York?
Guest:I used to do that one all the time with Seth Herzog.
Guest:Oh, Seth Herzog.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I did that show once, I think, or twice, and I went right after Zach Galifianakis, and I was like, why am I here?
Guest:Why am I doing this?
Guest:I am not supposed to go after Zach Galifianakis.
Guest:Did he kill?
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:And then I came up there like, I can't beat Gatwin.
Guest:I was like... Listen, again, I was not long for stand-up.
Guest:I know that feeling.
Marc:But wait, so when you went to... You have two siblings?
Guest:I have two siblings, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, one works at UPS.
Guest:He's a truck.
Guest:He's a driver.
Guest:And then the other one works at the ATF.
Guest:So...
Guest:At the, which is?
Guest:The artillery tobacco fire room?
Marc:Oh, right, right.
Marc:No, it's a- ATF?
Marc:Alcohol tobacco fire.
Guest:Alcohol, yeah.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Is he an agent?
Guest:Yeah, no, she's not an agent.
Guest:She's, she works, she's like, she doesn't really, I'm like, what's going on?
Guest:Tell me everything.
Guest:She's like, I don't.
Guest:What are you working on?
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:When's the raid?
Guest:I know.
Guest:I'm like, I gotta write a movie about you.
Guest:She's like, I work at administration, Kimmy.
Guest:I just like book the hotel.
Marc:That sounds exciting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you just set the computer most of the time, then you get some water sometimes?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I have to give a presentation every now and again.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Like what?
Marc:How many people?
Marc:In uniform?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So normal, normal siblings.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Out in the world.
Guest:Yeah, my mom works, like, she works at a company that does the monitors, like the train tracks, like the engineers' train tracks.
Marc:Riveting.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Indeed, riveting.
Guest:Ayy.
Marc:Is it air traffic control for trains?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It's like testing the tracks to make sure that they're safe.
Marc:Is that a job you go to work for every day?
Guest:Well, my mom basically just like, she's the same thing.
Guest:Administration gathers the receipts and does the travel for all the people, the engineers that go out on the train.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So she's like, we've got a problem on mile 20 of the, is that the kind of thing?
Guest:No, she's more like, your flight's at 3.55.
Guest:Don't miss it.
Guest:Don't forget to give your expenses and receipts.
Guest:And then the guys come back.
Marc:When did you start doing funny shit?
Marc:Like high school?
Guest:Yeah, I was introduced to improv in high school.
Guest:And I would just do it for intermission.
Guest:I would do an improv show in the high school.
Marc:At the assemblies?
Guest:No, at the play, and the intermission of the play.
Guest:So I'd be in the play, and then I'd come out in the middle of intermission and be like, all right, guys, go and buy drinks or whatever, and I'm gonna put on an improv show.
Marc:Really?
Marc:So you were in the theater group in high school?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you were like, I'm gonna carve out this niche for myself.
Marc:I'm gonna riff why people are going to the bathroom.
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:Love an interactive moment.
Marc:Hey, hey, come back here.
Marc:Is it just you?
Guest:It was a lot of times just me, but then I would train people to do it with me.
Guest:So we would do bits like with, I had a couple of people that would do it with me.
Guest:Some people wanted to stay in character.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Take their moment during intermission.
Marc:Oh, you mean the people in the play?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I was awesome in the play.
Marc:But you were like, come on, you guys.
Marc:They stay in character.
Guest:Come on, we got an audience here.
Guest:They're captive.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You're 14.
Marc:You're not a method actor.
Marc:Let's just do this.
Guest:that's funny yeah i mean my again you know being a part of big family i would always put on a show and stuff and i think that comedy was just the way of like the the love communication and the the family and like making each other laugh was like when you were got you were beloved by the family oh yeah funny right right memorable yeah we know this child out of the 40 that we have
Marc:This one seems to have some talent.
Guest:I was huge in the Gatewood circuit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Killed them.
Guest:Killed them with the Aunt Lottie jokes.
Marc:They loved it.
Marc:Back in the day.
Guest:But yeah, I came to New York and you're so much a part of my story, it's hilarious to me.
Guest:I am?
Guest:Yes, because I did- After college or did you go to college?
Marc:Yeah, after college.
Guest:Where did you go to college?
Guest:I went to Syracuse.
Marc:Oh, so you were way up there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you do theater there?
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:I was either gonna go do theater at Syracuse or biology at Maryland.
Guest:And I said, if I get into theater school, I'm gonna go to theater school.
Marc:Really?
Marc:That was the crossroads?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like a life of research.
Yeah.
Marc:Or maybe being a doctor, right?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Well, that was the thing.
Guest:My friend, her brother or sister is a biologist.
Guest:She's like, I research chicken shit all day.
Guest:And I was like, huh.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I don't know if that sounds nearly as exciting and romantic as I thought it did.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:No, it definitely doesn't.
Marc:But it's another one of those things you could do a movie on.
Yeah.
Marc:So what do you do all day?
Marc:Tell me, where do you get the chicken shit?
Marc:Are the chickens on site?
Marc:Because I think we got an act two there.
Marc:We won't even see the chickens.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Believe me.
Guest:I'm like, I'm asking my brother all the time.
Guest:I'm like, what's it like being a UPS truck driver?
Guest:Maybe I can make a character.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sorry.
Marc:It's already been done.
Marc:King and queen or whether the king and queen done.
Marc:He's full UPS driver.
Marc:Wasn't he?
Guest:God, I didn't even realize that.
Marc:I just came in in a... Oh, see, you would have done a whole script.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Didn't Kevin James do this for a decade?
Marc:Oh, damn it.
Guest:Thanks, Mark.
Guest:You saved a year of my life.
Marc:Saved you some time.
Marc:So you do theater, like major in it kind of deal?
Guest:Yeah, I majored in theater and acting.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:But it's funny, again, like...
Guest:Never got in like the main stage shows or anything, would audition.
Guest:And then I found, again, I would go to do improv shows, the late night improv shows.
Guest:We had this like comedy trip, the Broken Compass Players that I- It's so funny, the college improv group.
Guest:I know.
Marc:What their names are.
Marc:I just talked to Tom McCarthy and he was in one at BC, a long running, you know, sketch true.
Guest:What is that, Running With Scissors or something?
Marc:No, I remember what his was called, but they actually moved as a group to Minnesota.
Guest:Holy cow.
Marc:To sort of like do it.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:There's a lot of people, a lot of good people from Minnesota.
Guest:Colton Dunn, Charlie Sanders, Victor Bernardo, all those guys are from Minnesota.
Guest:Are from Minnesota guys?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:That was the generation after me.
Marc:We were the rogues, the stand-ups out there on our own.
Marc:Room to room, performing for moms everywhere.
Marc:You younger kids with the group work.
Yeah.
Marc:You social animals.
Guest:Team players.
Marc:Team players, yeah.
Marc:Fuck that, man.
Marc:I'm a rebel.
Marc:I'm out there on my own being sad in hotel rooms.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:The life is terrible.
Marc:I've actually grown to really enjoy that part of the life where I'm just in a hotel room.
Marc:I'm like, I don't have to clean this.
Marc:I don't hear any noise.
Marc:I don't have to worry about anything.
Marc:It's perfect.
Yeah.
Guest:There's a tiny water wherever I go.
Marc:Yeah, but it's just peaceful.
Marc:It used to be sort of like, where am I?
Marc:What kind of life is this?
Marc:Now I'm like, it's nice.
Marc:You can read a book.
Marc:Yeah, there's nothing to do.
Marc:All right, so you're doing heavy.
Marc:You're doing sketch, but you're also doing what?
Marc:Improv.
Marc:Beckett.
Marc:Are you doing the heavy play?
Guest:That's true.
Guest:I took a whole semester on Beckett.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah, loved it.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Yeah, I really did.
Marc:Can you explain what is the key to Beckett?
Marc:What's the essence?
Guest:So, okay, I took this Beckett class, and I thought it was so stupid, and I hated it, and I was like, it's pointless, and I was like, this is garbage.
Marc:That sounds like exactly what Beckett's trying to get across.
Yeah.
Marc:Sounds like you got the message.
Guest:I was like, it's not like he's trying.
Guest:And then I just got put into context.
Guest:And that's I feel like when I understood suddenly reactions and art and what everything.
Guest:Context.
Guest:Very important.
Guest:Yes, context.
Guest:And one of my nieces said, history is stupid because you don't use it today.
Guest:And I was like, no, no, girl, no.
Guest:History is everything.
Guest:You have to know the context for where reactions come from.
Marc:That's a big fear.
Marc:Like, that's my fear of like the way the Internet is shifting the brains of younger people is that there's no context and seemingly no need for it.
Marc:So we kind of float in this time free zone and we just react to everything all the time.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:In real time, rather than looking back.
Marc:There's no what you have to contextualize to understand the importance of anything or else everything gets dismissed and just thrown onto the pile.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Like you could look at a like some people look at a protest is like you're like, look at those angry people on the street just messing up my nice lawn.
Guest:Right.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Let's look at the context and why they're protesting.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:It's like the history of, you know.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:But I think that that really opened my eyes and I'm glad that I took that class.
Marc:Just that you were, it gave you that intellectual peace where you're like, I don't get this shit, it's stupid.
Marc:And then you're like, but this is what was happening in theater and in the world and where he was at the time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:It was a breakdown.
Guest:It was a reaction.
Guest:Yes, totally.
Guest:It was like a breakdown of like, what is the meaning of theater?
Guest:And like, you know, and I became absolutely obsessed with it.
Guest:There's this one called That Time that I staged.
Guest:It's just like completely.
Guest:They're all somewhat insane.
Guest:I played an end game.
Guest:I played the old woman.
Guest:There's like ham and I forget them.
Guest:I'm going to get roasted by my theater friends.
Marc:You can take the hit.
Marc:You had it coming.
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:Lizzie Kaplan.
Guest:It was her.
Guest:She's talking.
Guest:She's talking right now.
Marc:Well, that's interesting that out of nowhere I pulled Beckett up and it's actually the thing.
Marc:Did it start to frame comedy for you?
Marc:I mean, it must have had some influence on something in terms of...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I studied a lot of, like I studied Hitchcock for a semester, but Becky really stuck with me a lot.
Guest:I think it was just like thinking outside of the box was something that kind of stuck with me.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And not like, I love mainstream comedy.
Guest:Don't get me wrong.
Guest:It's my favorite.
Guest:I saw the movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:I'm just constantly trying to get my mother to watch something.
Guest:She doesn't have Netflix.
Guest:She's never seen Glow.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So I'm like, all right.
Guest:That's the worst.
Guest:Listen, my biggest accomplishment was a Peyton Manning commercial I did.
Marc:I hate when they do that because they...
Marc:Well, you know, everything's changed so much.
Marc:So they don't know how to sort of like contextualize your fame.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:Because it's like, is it on NBC?
Marc:No.
Marc:ABC?
Marc:No.
Marc:CBS?
Marc:No.
Marc:Then what is it?
Marc:Right?
Guest:Sam Beckett.
Guest:That's what it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a deconstruction of network television.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:Nothing, nothing.
Guest:It's the worst.
Guest:But yeah, I think theater school, I feel like studying both mainstream and kind of the greats, you know,
Guest:was just good for me to, like it expanded my palate because I had kind of, you know, mostly done just comedy in high school.
Guest:And there's only so much that a high school, you realize a high school teacher can really handle, you know, what is appropriate.
Marc:And what, yeah.
Marc:And what a kid can handle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it was good to just really kind of challenge myself.
Guest:But during that whole process, it was like, I was also doing marching band.
Guest:I played the trombone.
Guest:I was at a ska band.
Guest:And I mean, it was primetime.
Marc:Marching band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you do that in high school too?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Yeah.
Guest:And in comedy.
Marc:So you were a band nerd and a theater nerd?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a lot.
Guest:You can imagine.
Marc:But you're a very expressive nerd.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:A very expressive nerd.
Marc:You're putting yourself out there in a lot of the ways that, you know, mainstream people are like, what the fuck?
Yeah.
Marc:Look at the chick with the trombone.
Marc:Dude.
Marc:She's also in that play, man.
Marc:What play?
Marc:That plays here?
Marc:She also did the intermission improv show.
Marc:Don't you remember intermission?
Marc:Dude, it was so fucked up.
Marc:I don't remember anything.
Marc:Did we even stay for the second part of the play?
Guest:She did a whole bit trying to sell a flower at me.
Guest:She said it wasn't a banana.
Guest:It wasn't a banana, bro.
Marc:She's all right, man.
Marc:She's cool.
Marc:But you're doing the sketch stuff, so you're learning how to work with people, and then you just go to New York?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Then after college, I went to New York.
Guest:Just went straight to New York.
Guest:Moved in with a friend from college.
Guest:Worked at Columbia University for a year as an assistant to a professor.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was a weird job.
Marc:What kind of professor?
Guest:Comparative literature professor.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yep.
Marc:My buddy's a teacher at Columbia.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got that job through, it was a temp job, and this woman, Gayatri Chakavorty Spivak, who's a very impressive professor, she went through like 50 assistants in six months.
Guest:Nobody liked to work for her.
Guest:And I was doing extra work on SNL and stuff.
Guest:You were?
Guest:During the time, yeah.
Guest:And I just wanted to audition and I wanted to be in theater.
Guest:And then I got this temp job and she was yelling at me for whatever reason.
Guest:And I was just like, why are you being so mean to me?
Guest:And she went, you know what, Kim, I like you.
Guest:You talk back to me.
Guest:You keep me.
Guest:You talk straight to me.
Guest:I would like to offer you a full-time job.
Guest:And I was like, oh my God.
Marc:Yeah, be a punching bag.
Guest:So I said yes, because it was like $35,000 a year or whatever.
Marc:Did she keep yelling at you?
Guest:She kept yelling at me, but I would just clap back.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Oh, there's the movie.
Guest:Okay, UPS truck driver meets a professor from Columbia.
Marc:And the ATF.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Marc:Is on to them.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it was wild.
Guest:It was just a really interesting job because I just didn't care what she thought because I had no interest in- Nothing invested.
Guest:Yeah, nothing invested.
Marc:There was no future to it.
Guest:Yeah, but that's what she loved about me, I guess.
Marc:Did you learn anything from her?
Marc:I mean, could you go to classes or anything?
Guest:No.
Guest:Or was she an interesting person?
Guest:I read some books.
Guest:She really liked Kurt Vonnegut, so I read a bunch of Kurt Vonnegut books.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:And finally read Bluebeard.
Guest:And I was helping coordinate this guy, Dada.
Guest:I don't know if you're familiar with Dadaism or whatever, but he came over and I kind of learned, and I've already forgotten about Dadaism.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:There was a guy named Dada?
Guest:Yeah, there was a guy named Dada.
Marc:I know what Dada is, but I didn't know there was a Dada.
Guest:There was a guy, yeah, a guy, Dada.
Marc:Yeah, Dada Daddy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, a Dada Daddy.
Guest:At the time, I don't remember now, but I definitely loved all the philosophical, like...
Guest:Thought, I don't know.
Guest:It's so funny.
Guest:It all goes back to Beckett opening her mind and stuff.
Guest:I'm like, this is so fucking stupid.
Guest:And I'm like, you know what?
Guest:They have a point.
Marc:And academia is its own world.
Marc:I mean, that's where that stuff lives.
Marc:It's the only place that keeps it alive, really.
Marc:Any of that stuff.
Marc:If it wasn't for academia, no one would give a fuck about Beckett anywhere.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:It's sort of sad.
Marc:Every once in a while, they can sort of convince two celebrities to do Waiting for Godot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Phil Orwin, he saved us again.
Marc:But maybe I'm being cynical.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:So how did you get extra work at SNL?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:So you're not going to believe this.
Guest:A cousin...
Marc:One of the many.
Marc:One of the 90 cousins.
Guest:My cousin's aunt, who's a screenwriter out here.
Guest:He's genius.
Guest:Your cousin.
Guest:Yeah, Brian.
Guest:And his aunt, so not my aunt, but his aunt, his mom's sister.
Guest:She worked for Lorne Michaels, and I got in to do extra work.
Marc:You were just on the list.
Guest:Yeah, they were like, can you...
Guest:My friends, my cousins.
Guest:So I got on the list.
Guest:So I did it the amount of times you could do it before you had to join the union.
Guest:And then at the time it was after us.
Guest:So it was like a thousand bucks to join and I couldn't afford it.
Guest:So I did it until that moment.
Guest:But like...
Guest:It was just wild because it was my dream.
Guest:It was my whole dream was being on Saturday Night Live.
Marc:And this is before you did comedy or anything else?
Guest:No, this was like at the beginning.
Guest:This was like the year 2000.
Guest:Right when I landed, I was doing this and I couldn't believe that I was so close.
Marc:So you're there in the studio on the set doing the thing, sitting at a table in the background.
Guest:Yeah, like there was a screening room type places that they would just keep us.
Marc:Who was the cast then?
Guest:It was like Ratio Sands, Chris Parnell.
Marc:What about Will Ferrell?
Marc:Was he gone?
Guest:I think he and Terry and Molly Shannon probably just left.
Marc:And what about Fallon?
Marc:Was Fallon still there?
Guest:He was still there.
Guest:But I didn't really get to meet too many people.
Marc:We got to watch him, right?
Guest:Yeah, I got to watch him.
Guest:At UCB, Ratio Sands would hang out.
Guest:So he would come back and say hi.
Guest:So you were at UCB too?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So right when you got here, you got into classes over there?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's it.
Marc:So that's it.
Marc:Was that when it was in the old porno theater?
Guest:Yeah, on 22nd Street.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:So I started like, I think the theater started in 96 or 98, maybe.
Guest:98.
Guest:They were at Solo Arts.
Guest:And then in 2000, when I got there, they moved to 22nd Street.
Marc:And Matt Walsh lived upstairs.
Yeah.
Guest:Did he live upstairs?
Marc:Kind of.
Marc:Right there.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I worked at a place called Live Bait on 23rd Street, and he would come in there because he was dating one of the girls there.
Marc:I remember Live Bait.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It was a happening bar for a minute, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was right at 23rd in that area by the Flatiron Building, kind of, right?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:I couldn't get a job at the sister place.
Guest:It was the diner in Union Square.
Guest:Do you remember that place with all the hot models who worked there?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:What was that called?
Guest:I forget.
Guest:It's a big place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was all models that worked there.
Guest:And I applied to work there after Columbia.
Guest:And they literally looked up and down and went, you should go to live bait.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:It was so rude.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:You can only imagine, though, being a marching band and a theater nerd.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:This was something, a rejection I was used to.
Marc:Go to live bait.
Marc:Take your trombone.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I learned how to shuck oysters there at Live Bake.
Marc:All right, so you got the job at Live Bake.
Marc:Okay, so you're doing the SNL thing.
Marc:You're doing the- UCB.
Marc:UCB.
Marc:Who's teaching at UCB?
Guest:It was Andy Secunda, Sean Conroy, Billy Merritt.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Amy was still doing one-off classes, and Ian Roberts was still doing an occasional class here or there.
Marc:No Matt Walsh.
Guest:He was probably teaching, too.
Guest:No Besser?
Guest:I was so afraid of Matt Besser.
Guest:I'll never get over my fear of him.
Marc:Yeah, he's intense.
Marc:You know, you feel, you know, there's something I can see how it'd be frightening.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like a 22 year old.
Guest:You're like, yeah, God, I don't want to fuck up in front of you.
Guest:And like you, I would do those late night shows are like, all right, Kimmy, get on stage, you know, and I'd be like, oh, God, I'm going to fuck it.
Guest:Yeah, oh really?
Marc:Besser?
Guest:Yeah, there was these shows where you would just throw everybody on stage, shake them off stage.
Guest:It was a thrill, but it was so scary.
Marc:I don't know that whole process.
Guest:Improv?
Marc:I'd go do stand-up shows at UCB, and I'd have this fundamental resentment against these well-adjusted people that can work as a group.
Marc:And the audiences.
Marc:No matter how many people try to hang alt comedy on me or me being part of it, I resented it.
Marc:I was at Luna yelling because I couldn't get work elsewhere.
Guest:I was there.
Guest:I was watching you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is that where I made a difference somehow?
Marc:Is that how I'm part of the story?
Marc:But that was in the 90s.
Guest:No, you were always.
Guest:No, you were there.
Guest:You were there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Todd Berry.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Shloven and Alan.
Guest:All those guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would do like I like my I finally did like a 30 for 30 or was 60 and 60.
Guest:You know, one of those.
Guest:I was like when I did that, I was just like, I've made it.
Marc:Oh, as a stand up.
Guest:Yeah, just doing a bit.
Guest:I don't know if I was a stand-up.
Guest:I would just do a bit.
Marc:Was it like a minute bit?
Marc:I remember those.
Guest:Yeah, those were fun.
Marc:What was the point of those?
Marc:What was the name of the guy that used to organize those?
Marc:He had kind of a good name.
Marc:He was a comic.
Marc:I can't remember his name.
Marc:We can't do the memory thing.
Marc:No.
Marc:But you were trying stand-up?
Guest:Yeah, I did stand up for a minute.
Guest:And it's just because I was trying to figure out where I belonged in the comedy world.
Guest:Because you don't... There's no... I mean, it's like coming to Hollywood.
Guest:You're like, I'm going to be an actor.
Guest:And then they're like, this is really crazy.
Guest:Try something else.
Marc:Yeah, you can't just do that.
Guest:No.
Guest:So I tried it.
Guest:I like... My friend, a college friend, worked for Barry Katz.
Guest:So he would put me on a couple of gigs.
Guest:And I went out with...
Marc:That's a messy hole of an office to work in.
Guest:Indeed.
Guest:I opened for like Bobby Kelly once and Al Madrigal.
Guest:I was like, this was not my crowd.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Well, how sweet.
Guest:I did like guitar comedy.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Bobby Kelly, those are sweet guys.
Guest:They're so- Those two.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:They're so sweet and they were so funny and we had a great time.
Guest:Oh, good, good.
Marc:Out of all of the comics, you got two that- Yeah, I mean, Bobby Kelly's a monster, but he's a sweet monster.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Very sweet monster.
Guest:No, they were really nice to me.
Guest:They could tell that I was a funny person, but it was not translating to me on stage for stand-up.
Guest:So I just was like, I don't think I need to do this anymore.
Guest:But improv was connecting with me, and sketch was really connecting with me.
Marc:When did you meet Rebecca?
Guest:I met her in 2006.
Marc:So you were just bouncing around for years in New York?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I taught improv.
Guest:I worked at The Pit.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, The Pit.
Marc:I remember that place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And People's Improv Theater.
Guest:I did work with Kirsten Ames, who- At Westpeth?
Guest:Yeah, I worked at West Bath.
Marc:Or not at 45.
Marc:After.
Guest:After, like, itty-izard times.
Marc:Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So I did Jerusalem Syndrome around that time.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know, Mark.
Marc:That was, like, that was, like, 2000 and what?
Guest:That was, but I, so Kirsten Ames.
Marc:99.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She.
Guest:took me under her wing and like she was doing a solo show class.
Guest:So she needed directors.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:For her solo show class.
Guest:So and it was an amazing class of people and like including a fewer Eisenberg was in this like class.
Guest:Lisa Lampanelli was in the class.
Guest:And so it was just after your show.
Guest:So it was kind of like a template for like how a solo show could be developed.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:She definitely developed mine with me.
Guest:So, like, so I would work with people's stories, their real stories, help them develop into shows or, like, if they wanted to do a character.
Marc:Dramaturging.
Guest:Indeed.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I would, you know, then start to put together their actual solo shows.
Marc:Who'd you do that for?
Guest:Eileen Kelly.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Nikki Farsad.
Guest:There's a couple others.
Marc:That was sort of a format that was sort of a way to present to oneself at the time.
Guest:Indeed.
Guest:I mean, listen, I had two solo shows, too.
Marc:Did you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I just talked to a guy in Denver who's about to do one at the Fringe.
Marc:And it's like, as a form, I don't know.
Marc:I look back on what I've done and how I've done it, and I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:I'm still a comic, but the idea of the show, the solo show, gave you a little more latitude.
Marc:But when you're a comic in your heart and soul, there's some part of you going like, no, you can't be funny all the way through.
Marc:You know what I can't?
Marc:Mr. Drama Guy now?
Marc:You're going to cry a little bit?
Marc:What are you going to do?
Guest:Having a Tom Hanks moment, sir?
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Like, you know, there was something like, you know, well, you can't manage, you can't handle the, you know.
Guest:Yeah, I hear you.
Marc:But I did them.
Marc:And Jerusalem Syndrome was like, I look back on it and it's such a mockable format.
Yeah.
Guest:Andy Secunda did a one-woman show because he had directed so many.
Guest:It was hilarious.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:He did his own one-woman show.
Marc:Oh, that's hilarious.
Guest:Classic.
Guest:Yeah, it was very fun.
Marc:Armisen used to do a bit about a guy doing a one-man show.
Guest:Oh, yes.
Guest:Have you seen that thing?
Marc:After I saw that, I'm like, oh, my God.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:No one can do them anymore.
Yeah.
Marc:Just the movement, the weird intentional stage movements of a guy who's not used to being on stage in any way and had to really make decisions.
Marc:That's fucking genius.
Marc:So that's what started you directing.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you know, I directed in college.
Guest:I did Black Box.
Marc:Oh, right, the Beckett.
Guest:Indeed.
Guest:I did the female version of The Odd Couple in college.
Guest:Oh, that's a fun show.
Guest:I love that show.
Guest:And what really motivated me was that my professor at the time said, well, why would they do it with women?
Guest:How is that funny?
Guest:And I was just like, the fire was lit.
Guest:It really pissed me off.
Marc:Isn't it weird what teachers can teach you involuntarily?
Yeah.
Guest:yes indeed sir and uh yeah so i had kind of been i mean how i got to where i am today is kind of like it it i've been doing it for a long time but didn't necessarily know that it was a thing that you could do because everyone told me it was too hard to break in to direct a film direct to film direct tv anything like but it seems like it's hard it's hard
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But I mean, but it seems like I think you and Rebecca were sort of ahead of the curve in the podcasting.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We did our Apple Sisters podcast.
Marc:It seems to me that in terms of landing in the comedy world in an earnest way, it was with that, right?
Guest:Let's see.
Guest:We created the Apple Sisters in 2006 or 2007.
Guest:And we went to the Montreal Just for Last Comedy Festival.
Guest:And that was kind of our big break.
Guest:And that was in 2008.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And this was just the two of you, right?
Guest:Three of us.
Guest:Three of you.
Guest:So me, Rebecca, and Sarah.
Marc:A nostalgia act in a way.
Guest:Yeah, we're a 1940s comedy radio show.
Guest:So I love the Marx Brothers, came up with that.
Guest:And we love to sing and dance.
Guest:Sarah comes from a Broadway family.
Guest:Her grandmother's Ruby Keeler from 42nd Street.
Guest:Oh, wow, yeah.
Guest:And Rebecca and I were the only female teachers, and people kept telling us at the pit, and they're like, you guys should do a show.
Guest:We're like, fuck you, just because we're women.
Guest:And then we're like, actually, I think you're really funny, you know?
Guest:I did this like pinup calendar, a comedy pinup calendar.
Guest:And Rebecca saw it and was, all right, we're going to work together forever.
Guest:And I was like, great.
Guest:Super.
Guest:So we came up with this bit and we did a new show every month.
Guest:So we would write three brand new songs, choreograph them, write comedy bits, like your classic pie in the face, like...
Guest:so it was almost like a period piece variety show yeah but it was satirical so we would very much talk about a lot of like the war going on because you know bush was president at the time okay as like as these characters yeah yeah okay so there's a war going on sir yeah a woman running for president you know yeah right right yeah yeah it's a oh it's great get back to the
Guest:kitchen uh yeah but uh so i uh there's three of us there's candy cora and cd apple i play cora apple the dumb one i just love semen uh sailors um and uh candy is the she's got a husband named cheryl who's a man fighting in the war overseas
Guest:Our closeted lesbian character.
Guest:And then C.D.
Guest:Apple, who's like the Jesus-loving, in-denial conservative of our group.
Guest:So we've had a lot of fun over the years, like just poking fun at politics through the 1940s lens.
Marc:So when you did Montreal, I mean, what did that yield?
Marc:I mean, were you offered a show or did you take meetings as a group?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, you did all that.
Guest:We got agents and managers from that.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So that was it.
Guest:Yeah, we signed with UTA and Principato Young after that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because we were the only unrepresented group.
Guest:We were the only females in the sketch comedy block.
Marc:Are you still with Principato?
Guest:No, not anymore.
Marc:Are you still with UTA?
No, not anymore.
Guest:Things change, Mark.
Marc:You've got to start somewhere.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It's so funny because I knew Peter Purtis and Principato when they were all starting out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I didn't realize that it's just the nature of the thing.
Marc:Everybody starts out in whatever they're doing in show business and they just eventually evolve and some make it, some don't.
Marc:I was such a dick to him and those guys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was just like, who the fuck are these people with these suits?
Marc:I remember there was a point where Peter made the shift from being a suit guy manager to the leather jacket guy.
Marc:And I'm like, who's the leather jacket guy now?
Marc:But then they went on to have a big career.
Marc:They're big.
Marc:But when I knew them, they were like, who's this guy?
Marc:I'm such a dick.
Marc:I got to be careful of that stuff.
Guest:I think it's all right, Mark.
Guest:You're doing all right.
Guest:People love you for exactly who you are.
Marc:I bet you he remembers me as a dick.
Marc:There are some people that have those memories.
Marc:Peter Principato is probably one of those.
Marc:I don't think he has a lot of power to hurt me now, but remember that thing you said about my jacket?
Guest:I'll never forgive him.
Marc:Yeah, never forgive him.
Marc:You're not working for anything.
Guest:I wore flannel for the rest of my life.
Marc:No Principato projects for that kid.
Marc:So that's where you got the agent you got going.
Guest:Yeah, and that's the year I tested for Saturday Night Live because I was doing my solo show called The Engagement.
Guest:And so I was doing a couple of weird characters, impressions, stuff like that.
Guest:My favorite impression was Judy Garland, who was afraid of bears.
Oh, really?
So stupid.
Marc:But that's the kind of thing that they do.
Guest:Yeah, it was really fun.
Guest:How'd it go?
Guest:Hello, I'm Judy, Judy Garland, and you're a bear.
Guest:I'm sure you're a bear sitting in front of your microphone and laughing with your big mustache.
Guest:It's a bear mustache if I ever saw one.
Guest:So stupid.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Guest:did you get all the way through to lauren i did i got i got all the way through i got to i did the you know got the call to do like the uh comic strip had to go show up and like in the middle of a show the marcy klein call was it yeah yeah i i and they um they were like all right like i remember going to that show like one girl's throwing up in the bathroom mikhail watkins is actually throwing up no no
Guest:No, but we auditioned together, Mikaela and I. Yeah, I love Mikaela.
Guest:That's when I first met her.
Guest:We were on the audition, and I was obsessed with her when I saw her bits.
Guest:It's a really hard thing to become up on stage.
Marc:It's a sad story, her SNL story.
Guest:Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
Guest:Our paths were right, and then she went up there, and I ran to LA.
Marc:So she got on the show for what, she was only on one year, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you went where?
Guest:I went to LA, like it broke me.
Guest:It broke my heart.
Marc:The rejection of it?
Guest:Yeah, because I went, you know, I did that, and then got, you know, you did the tape, and then you go studio, and then you go test.8H.
Guest:And like I was getting very encouraging, you know, emails and texts from the writers there.
Guest:But then I didn't get it.
Guest:And it just like broke.
Guest:It broke me.
Guest:I was broken.
Guest:Heartbroken.
Guest:The show business.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I literally was like, I'm leaving New York.
Guest:There's nothing left for me here.
Marc:And what about Rebecca?
Yeah.
Guest:We all decided to go to LA together.
Marc:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We came to LA together.
Guest:Thank God.
Marc:Where's that movie?
Guest:You're pitching a lot of movies.
Guest:I know.
Guest:This is just a movie pitching session.
Marc:The Columbia professor is still my favorite.
Guest:Okay, good.
Marc:Only if she has that accent.
Guest:You got it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's from a colonialized India.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very specific.
Marc:How is that not the best movie?
Marc:So you get out here.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And everything, the sky's open.
Marc:L.A.
Marc:welcomes you.
Guest:I'm working at the city bakery in Brentwood.
Yeah.
Guest:My boss is 18 years old and I'm almost 30.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a rocky start, but I was determined to make it, Mark.
Marc:Yeah, and look at you.
Marc:You did it.
Guest:Yeah, but Rebecca came, and Sarah actually went to Las Vegas to do Jersey Boys.
Guest:So we were performing between L.A.
Guest:We were doing our live shows in L.A.
Guest:and Las Vegas.
Marc:Did you do Jersey Boys?
Guest:I was in the movie, yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah, the movie, right.
Guest:Sarah was actually pregnant, and so she said to the casting director, my sisters, which at this point we're basically sisters, but my sisters can do the show because they've seen it so many times.
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got it, which was wild.
Yeah.
Marc:Jersey Boys is the Rudy Valley one.
Guest:The Frankie Valley?
Marc:Frankie Valley, yeah.
Guest:Who's Rudy Valley?
Marc:Rudy is an older actor.
Oh.
Marc:From probably the 40s-ish.
Guest:From the 1900s?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Let's see.
Marc:Discography, 1929 was his first record.
Marc:All the way through to 1976.
Guest:I mean, they were contemporaries, I guess.
Marc:Kinda.
Guest:Sorta.
Marc:He's an old timer.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But Frankie Valli, sure, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I met Frankie Valli, took a picture of Frankie Valli.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That was wild.
Guest:I met Clint Eastwood, that was crazy.
Guest:I mean, he directed the movie.
Guest:He did?
Guest:I didn't know that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How was Clint?
Guest:I mean, he's like the coolest guy ever.
Guest:And I mean, this was like shortly after the chair situation.
Guest:So that was a little weird.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Politics aren't great, but show business.
Guest:Indeed.
Guest:But yeah, no, he he let me improvise on set, which was crazy for him.
Marc:I think, isn't it?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Does he do that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Did he make the film?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:But he liked it.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But that movie just stuck basically to the Broadway show script.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So you just let you improvise to entertain him.
Guest:Indeed.
Guest:But you do like two takes.
Guest:You know, you don't do that much.
Guest:It's a very quiet set.
Guest:He's very just like efficient.
Guest:Just gives you like one little adjustment, but really like trust the actors.
Guest:When you're talking to him, he's like, I don't like to look at myself anymore, Kimmy.
Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Guest:He said that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's like, when I look at myself, I see this old guy, but I don't feel old.
Guest:You know?
Guest:It's kind of heartbreaking somehow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then he also made jokes about, you know, my improv being like rated G, rated PG, and then rated X. Yeah.
Marc:That's funny.
Marc:It sounds like he had a real dynamic relationship, right?
Guest:Yeah, he was, listen, I mean, he's an actor, so you imagine that he just knows.
Guest:The cool thing about him is he knows and will come to you because he's a legend because I'm sure it's very intimidating to go to somebody like this where some people will close themselves off.
Guest:It's intimidating to approach them.
Guest:He wasn't like that.
Marc:He wasn't like that.
Marc:That's nice.
Marc:So when did you start that Apple Sisters podcast?
Marc:That was with Earwolf, right?
Guest:Yeah, it was your wealth.
Guest:I think we started in 2010 maybe.
Marc:Sort of a radio play kind of thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we would take our old live shows, our scripted shows, and we would write new podcasts about them.
Marc:So we would do- Because that was like, you must have been one of the first ones doing radio theater podcasts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, there was the Thrilling Adventure Hour.
Guest:They were doing stuff, I think, in tandem, but in LA.
Guest:So we eventually crossed paths, but-
Guest:Yeah, we were doing like, I didn't realize how kind of, not revolutionary, forgive me, because the radio's been around, but like how different it was to be doing scripted stuff on podcasts at the time.
Marc:Yeah, because it was the Wild West then.
Marc:I mean, we started in 2009 and there were podcasts around, but it wasn't a popular medium.
Marc:So you could kind of do whatever you wanted.
Marc:And there was only a couple that I knew of doing that scripted stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The straight up radio plays in a way, some of them.
Marc:And that became a very popular mode later.
Marc:I don't know when that happened, when it really started to take off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why we didn't continue is because there was some structure stuff, but then we didn't make any money doing that.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And they were paying their engineers, but...
Guest:I don't think that much.
Guest:And then when they were like, you guys have to figure this out on your own, we're like, we have no idea how to do this.
Marc:Oh, to get listeners?
Marc:And to make a living?
Guest:To make money?
Guest:Yeah, once we had done it for like a year, doing all these brand new scripted shows, we were kind of like, what are we doing?
Guest:We're just kind of like...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We had a great, we had a really great listenership, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then it just, it got, once they kind of handed it over to us, we were like, ugh.
Guest:It's hard.
Marc:How do you fucking do it?
Marc:How do you get traction?
Marc:How do you do, what do you do?
Marc:Hand it over to you in which sense?
Marc:In order to try to monetize it?
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:They were just going to take away.
Guest:They were like, we can't do your studio time anymore.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was like the infrastructure they were taking away from the podcast.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Guest:What are you going to do?
Marc:Then you're going to do it at your house?
Marc:That kind of thing?
Marc:So they kicked you out of the building?
Guest:Yeah, kind of.
Yes.
Guest:But I think that was when like some, you know, like when they're probably being bought by somebody.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Marc:By scripts.
Guest:Scripts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, we were that was that was it was fun for us because you didn't have to do props, costumes, book a stage, you know, but then there was but but but all of the recording and, you know, tags and producing was all being done for us.
Marc:Oh, in order for you to keep doing it, you would have to figure out, find somebody to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So it just went away.
Guest:It just went away.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:It was kind of sad.
Marc:And then you were just doing the acting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Back to acting, Mark.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you get glow.
Guest:Yep, I get glow.
Guest:That definitely completely changed my life because I was about to actually go run a podcast network.
Marc:Seriously.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And they wanted you and Rebecca as a package.
Guest:For Glow, yes.
Guest:So we auditioned together.
Guest:So Jen Houston, the casting director.
Marc:The legendary casting director.
Guest:Legendary.
Guest:So we met in New York.
Guest:She saw the Apple Sisters, was a fan of the Apple Sisters.
Guest:Brought me in for Scott Pilgrim.
Guest:Brought me in.
Guest:She's very supportive.
Marc:She's great.
Marc:And other ones I've known since she was a child, I think.
Yeah.
Guest:She's amazing.
Guest:I've, it's been, and like, she's, you know, buds with Alison Jones.
Guest:Like they kind of are, and like those two really have changed my life for sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Another casting director.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so yeah, Jen, Jen brought Rebecca and I in and we just thought we didn't have a chance.
Guest:We were like, Jenji Cohen show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like a glow, which we both knew and liked.
Guest:And we were like, this is never gonna happen.
Guest:And so I was gonna get, like the timeline is kind of crazy because I was gonna get on a plane.
Guest:I was gonna do the audition, get on a plane to New York, accept the job, and then become an executive producer of a podcast network.
Guest:And so we get the audition.
Guest:She's like, you can improvise, just do some characters and stuff.
Guest:So we did like the Apple Sisters.
Guest:We did a couple of other bits that we'd kind of come up with.
Guest:Because we drove back and forth to Vegas for years, Rebecca and I. We have so many show ideas.
Guest:We have so many characters that we do.
Marc:Why back and forth to Vegas?
Guest:Because Sarah Lowe, my third apple sister lives in Vegas.
Guest:So Rebecca and I would drive to Las Vegas.
Guest:So during those hours and hours and hours on the road, the two of us, we had a business together called the Nerds of a Feather where we saw feather fascinators.
Guest:We worked at the same bar together.
Guest:We sold a pilot together.
Guest:We have done so much shit because of that car ride.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That when this came along, it was just like an extension of just like us being in the car for five hours at a time.
Marc:That's great, yeah, that's great.
Marc:That's a great story, the incubator.
Guest:Yeah, indeed.
Guest:And so we, yeah, we auditioned and then we got a call back and I was like, hilarious universe.
Guest:So I had to move my plane for my interview a week.
Marc:I was like, let me just- For the podcast network, the big podcast break.
Marc:What network is that?
Marc:How they doing now?
Guest:It's Earwolf.
It is.
Guest:They work great.
Guest:Full circle.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, I like the people that work there.
Guest:So we got, we did a callback, which they didn't give us a script.
Guest:It was Liz, Carly, Jenji.
Guest:They're just like, come up with some characters.
Guest:So we're like, okay, so we just came up with some wrestling characters.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:We did some old ladies, even though they didn't ask for it, but then they just sat and talked to us about our story, and we had how we met, and we had children three months apart, and we've just done everything together, and they wanted real friends who were also a comic duo.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It was custom made for you guys.
Guest:Truly, but we just really didn't think, and we saw Sydal coming down from, and we were like, she's so fit, I was like, we don't have a chance.
Guest:Like I was like, I ate a baby like nine months ago.
Guest:This is not a good look.
Guest:So we were like, eh, fuck it.
Guest:You know, this is kind of one of those auditions that we really threw caution to the wind.
Guest:And then I went to have coffee the next day with Molly Prather and I decided to turn my phone off because I was like, I'm going to be in the moment.
Guest:I haven't seen you in so long.
Guest:We were roommates together.
Guest:She goes to the bathroom.
Guest:I decide to turn my phone back on and there's like,
Marc:40 missed calls and that was the day that we got glow oh wow that's great it's nice when it's all at once yeah yeah you're like what what what yeah yeah it was a life-changing experience for sure it was a great time we had man it was a great time we had and it's so fucked up that we couldn't finish it
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I really liked your message about the movie.
Guest:I really liked it.
Marc:I don't remember what I said.
Guest:You were just talking on social media, on livestream, and you're just like, just let us do the fucking movie, man.
Guest:That's what the people want.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It wouldn't have been that big a deal.
Marc:No, it would have been a big deal.
Marc:You know, they could have... Like, Netflix could have done it.
Marc:You know, I don't know what budgetary, like, things... But it was already... They were already written a fucking season, most of it.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:So, like, the writing wouldn't have been that big a deal.
Marc:And, you know, in terms of, like... It just seemed like it could have been done.
Marc:It would have been a nice thing to do.
Guest:It would have been really nice.
Marc:But it really was an issue of... I do... It's not that I have sympathy, but I understand why...
Marc:they couldn't do it.
Marc:They were just holding on to all those location sets and it was indefinable and we could barely do it now.
Marc:I mean, the protocols just shifted with that kind of show.
Marc:I mean, there was no way to do it without daily testing and it just wasn't there and they couldn't wait.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What are you going to do?
Guest:Yeah, no, that was sad.
Guest:That was a tough call to get in the midst of all this shit.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So how did you get this Eliza thing?
Marc:Because this is like the first feature film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I started directing television.
Guest:Like I got my DGA.
Guest:I started directing before.
Guest:Like I directed a couple YouTube Red series.
Guest:I directed like a bunch of like sketches and I did all of Rachel Bloom's like music videos.
Guest:You did?
Guest:So you've been really busy with it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, before Glow came along.
Guest:I was just doing these, like, I did a web series called Junketeers for Comedy Central, and I did a YouTube Red show called Hyperlinked, and I'd done those pilots, and they both got picked up for series, and it was kind of one of those things that motivated me that this might be what I should be doing instead.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And then, of course, Glow was like, nope.
Guest:They wouldn't let you direct.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:No, they just, like... Oh, they casted you, so you're back in it.
Guest:Yeah, so I'm back in acting again.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, you're back to the puppet show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Though I didn't believe it.
Guest:I just didn't believe that anything.
Guest:I didn't trust acting.
Guest:I don't trust acting gigs.
Guest:They always feel so fleeting.
Marc:You don't have any power.
Marc:No agency.
Guest:Indeed, yes.
Guest:Even though it was the greatest acting experience of my life.
Guest:But I was just like, I don't know what's gonna happen after this.
Guest:I need some insurances.
Guest:And so actually, I got my first DGA gig
Guest:during season one of Glow, so they let me off an episode to direct this Amazon show, which was amazing, because they didn't have to do that, but it was very nice.
Guest:But they saved a salary, so that's good all around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then after directing a bunch of television, I was, you know, I directed, my first feature was a documentary called Nerdcore Rising that I did in 2008.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And I made it with Nagin Farsad.
Guest:We made it, we followed this guy, MC Frontalot, who raps about Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering.
Guest:You know, it's very funny.
Guest:So we were discovering this world in like 2005, 2006.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we raised our own money.
Guest:It was pre-Kickstarter.
Guest:So we were just like asking people to PayPal us money and we would put them in the credits.
Guest:Always on the forefront, Mark.
Guest:Yeah, good.
Marc:Cutting edge.
Guest:And that went to South by Southwest in 2008.
Guest:So that's kind of like where I started.
Marc:Put you on the map.
Guest:Yeah, put me on the map in terms of like, I didn't go to film school, but this is kind of like my, I learned how to operate a camera.
Guest:I learned how to do sound and I'd always been tinkering.
Guest:I wanted to get back to a feature.
Guest:So when this came along, that it was actually getting made, which you know is a miracle that any movie gets made.
Guest:Eliza's?
Guest:Yeah, Eliza's movie.
Guest:And she had been trying to make it for a long time.
Guest:I read it.
Guest:I liked it.
Guest:I knew what to do with it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was with Universal.
Guest:And it got pushed by three months.
Guest:It was going to shoot in Chicago.
Guest:Then it got pushed by three months.
Guest:And it got shot in L.A.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So she had good on paper for a long time.
Marc:Eliza had the script.
Guest:Yeah, she had the script for a long time because it was based on the story that she told in stand-up.
Marc:About dating a guy that turned out to be a complete fraud.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I had to pitch to her and the producers and Universal and I got the job.
Marc:You had to pitch your vision for how you do it.
Marc:Did you have to make a board?
Guest:The first meeting was just all talking about story characters, how it was going to look.
Guest:And then the second meeting, I put together a little lookbook for them.
Guest:Okay, lookbook, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:And had casting ideas.
Guest:And so, you know, a lot of the references were, you know, those old thrillers and...
Marc:Yeah, and Eliza trusted you from the get-go?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, we had a great working relationship, and she's like... She's a worker.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I would have notes, and I would send them to her, and then she would turn around the script in like three days while she was on the road doing stand-up.
Marc:Yeah, she's a fucking worker, man.
Guest:Yeah, such a hard worker, and, you know, I...
Guest:And I, you know, it came together so fast because I originally, I think I was hired probably a month before they were going to start shooting.
Guest:And then it got pushed.
Guest:So we got some time to develop the script and like get shit together.
Guest:But luckily I had worked on a lot of independent.
Guest:I come from independent film, a lot of indie stuff.
Guest:So I could call upon a lot of good people.
Guest:including my AD, Drew Langer, who worked with the Duplass brothers.
Guest:So he really gets that low budget, fast pace.
Marc:Oh yeah, there are people that Lynn could make a movie in a couple weeks.
Guest:Yes, Drew was actually Lynn's AD.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Guest:And that's why I obviously hugely admired everything she did and probably modeled my whole career after what she did.
Marc:Yeah, when she wanted to make a movie, she'd make a movie.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's so inspiring.
Guest:Like, just do it.
Guest:Like, what are you waiting for?
Guest:Because we know that if you go through the studio, it'll take forever.
Guest:So this movie felt very much in that spirit.
Guest:It was just like, let's do it.
Guest:And, you know, called in every favor possible.
Marc:And it was popular, right?
Marc:I mean...
Guest:listen it was like this 1.2 million dollar movie at universal yeah it got it we finished it right at the top of the pandemic so i finished uh editing in february 2020 yeah and then had to do all the rest of the post stuff when the pandemic was first starting yeah we were just like invent like we were like let's try this thing called zoom right yeah sure yeah
Guest:And try to like do ADR.
Guest:But they didn't put it.
Marc:It didn't get released until after or until a few months ago.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A few months ago.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So when I kind of when when we started this film, we kind of thought it was going to be, you know, this South by Southwest in theaters.
Guest:And then Netflix kind of came in.
Guest:They really got behind it and like put it on billboards in Times Square.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Unbelievable.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It might not have gone that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:If you had gone festivals.
Guest:Yeah, it probably just would have been.
Marc:You'd have to find a distributor.
Marc:But yeah, they made a big deal of it.
Marc:Does she have a deal there?
Marc:No.
Marc:Because they've given her a lot of opportunities.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's had a sketch show.
Guest:She had five specials.
Guest:it was the perfect place to go ultimately because it would have ended up at a streamer anyway.
Marc:And so the fact that, uh, yeah, I think when I saw her, she's like number three on Netflix.
Guest:That was trippy.
Guest:And I was scared out of my mind because this, you know, you, I kind of went in thinking like, okay, great.
Guest:This will be like, you know, like all my friends are like, they all, they do the festivals and then they slowly get to their big movie.
Guest:And like, it was just like,
Guest:out of the gate like you're like you're a director now you do features yeah this is what we think of you yeah wow it was scary yeah is it still scary it is still scary have you gotten offers and stuff are you yeah yeah it's been great oh good it's been great and you know it's still it's still always going to be hard to make a movie no matter what yeah
Guest:I had been attached to a big Sony feature before I got Eliza's movie and it fell through.
Guest:But that attachment to that big movie is the thing that got me Eliza's movie.
Guest:So everything serves its purpose, obviously.
Guest:And everything's a learning lesson.
Guest:The glow helped my directing career.
Guest:The movies helped my TV directing career.
Guest:You never know.
Marc:But it's working out.
It's working out.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, it's good to see you.
Guest:Thanks, Mark.
Guest:This is such a nice thing for you to invite me.
Guest:I always wondered when it was going to happen, if it was ever going to happen.
Guest:It happened.
Guest:And it means so much.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Guest:And my father-in-law listens to this podcast religiously, so what's up, Jay?
Marc:Okay, well, good.
Marc:I'm glad.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:I love talking to you.
Guest:I have to say, he called, he says, Kimmy, Mark talked about your movie today.
Guest:So thank you for that, too.
Marc:But now he's going to know a lot about you.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Kimmy Gatewood, Good on Paper, the movie with Eliza Schlesinger that she directed is now streaming on Netflix.
Marc:Here's some sad guitar for Charlie Watts.
.
.
Thank you.
Guest:¶¶
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey.
Marc:La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.
Bye.