Episode 1230 - Andrew Santino
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf i'm broadcasting outside of the house i'm in new mexico
Marc:I'm in my home state.
Marc:Coming home is always a little dicey, but I was surprised, man.
Marc:I mean, people are ready.
Marc:They are ready to go.
Marc:I flew Delta.
Marc:I don't usually fly Delta.
Marc:It wasn't terrible.
Marc:There doesn't seem to be any other direct flights from Los Angeles to Albuquerque.
Marc:And I flew Delta and it was a shit show, man.
Marc:I got to the airport and it was fucking insane.
Marc:There were lines wrapping around the building almost, if that's possible, at an airport.
Marc:Just lines everywhere.
Marc:I mean, I'm fortunate.
Marc:I guess I have TSA and I was following priority, but it was crazy.
Marc:Granted, masks were being worn, but it's definitely a baptism and viral fire.
Marc:If you go to an airport right now, because people are like, fuck it.
Marc:I'm out.
Marc:I'm moving.
Marc:I'm going.
Marc:I'm taking that vacation.
Marc:I don't care.
Marc:I'm just I want to go somewhere.
Marc:I'm going today on the show.
Marc:Andrew Santino.
Marc:He's a comedian.
Marc:He's also an actor.
Marc:He was on that series based on the Comedy Store, I'm Dying Up Here.
Marc:He's currently a series regular on Dave.
Marc:He also hosts a couple of podcasts, one with Bobby Lee, one of his own.
Marc:And I didn't really know him that well.
Marc:I knew he was around.
Marc:I knew people liked him.
Marc:I knew he was on that show.
Marc:But it's one of these weird things where he's of another generation than I am.
Marc:But I really didn't see him around.
Marc:We didn't cross paths much at all, once or twice.
Marc:And I never really, I never got to know him.
Marc:I never saw much of his comedy.
Marc:But I knew he was one of us.
Marc:I knew he was a comedian.
Marc:And I knew he was good at it.
Marc:And I've just been sort of doing a few of these interviews with these guys who were younger than me that I didn't really know.
Marc:Like I did one with Mark Normand.
Marc:santino's of that same generation but he's a nice guy and uh you know it was nice to talk to him we we'd never really talked before as i said and then we ended up taking a hike together a couple days later so maybe we're pals now i don't know and i did his podcast i don't know when that's going to be up next week maybe maybe we're pals now i don't know how it works anymore i don't know as a grown-up i don't know how pals work do you know how pals work do you pick up new pals as a grown-up so i came out and
Marc:Oddly, given my I don't have a distance from my parents.
Marc:I like my parents.
Marc:But the first thing I felt like I had to do once I got vaccinated was go visit my mother in Florida, which I did.
Marc:And then this trip is primarily to see my father, who who is getting on in years.
Marc:getting a little fragile.
Marc:He's going to be 83 this year.
Marc:He's having a little trouble walking.
Marc:His thoughts are not as clear as they used to be.
Marc:But I just wanted to come see them.
Marc:I don't know what's changed in me, but it's something that most other people have kind of innately.
Marc:But I guess because of some residue or lifelong kind of defensiveness or mild resentment towards my upbringing, which I think is probably immature at this juncture and seems to have dissipated a bit.
Marc:And I can approach my parents as they age with a bit of empathy and compassion.
Marc:And I'm happy about that because some people have problematic relationships with their parents.
Marc:I did, but it was never...
Marc:I mean, I always liked them all right, but I'm glad to be here.
Marc:And my dad's wife is, I think, also relieved.
Marc:It's just, there's no other way to look at this.
Marc:Life sometimes is just being sad, but it is...
Marc:part of the process getting on in years and there's something to appreciate it there's sort of a sweet spot of the vulnerability of aging like i think my father by and large has forgotten how to be an uh there's there's residue of it but there's no real thrust to it and it's nice you make sure you you you uh you sort of take time to appreciate the sweet spot of uh the uh the slow decline
Marc:But that said, it has been nice because his brain is a little slower, a little different.
Marc:Sometimes they say interesting things.
Marc:I guess it's not some jump to compare it to a childlike thinking, but we were in the car.
Marc:I was taking him over.
Marc:We were going to get something to eat.
Marc:And he's like, hey, have you seen that advertisement with the guy that has no pelvis?
Marc:I'm like, what do you mean, no pelvis?
Marc:He's like, there's a guy with no pelvis.
Marc:I'm like, no pelvis?
Marc:It's an ad on television?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No pelvis.
Marc:And I'm like, is it for medicine?
Marc:What is it?
Marc:He's like, no, I don't know.
Marc:He's got no pelvis, and then there's a bunch of other ones.
Marc:No pelvis.
Marc:And I'm like, no pelvis?
Marc:I don't understand.
Marc:It's not an ad for medicine?
Marc:No.
Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck is he talking about?
Marc:And then I realized, I said, is it the guy that's half motorcycle, half human?
Marc:He's like, yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:so no pelvis right okay half motorcycle half human right the motor it's like i don't know it just seemed like there was a lot of them yeah he says he said uh too many for it to be realistic i think
Marc:It was the sheer number of the fictional beings who were half motorcycle and half human.
Marc:That was daunting for my dad in his current state of perception.
Marc:It didn't seem realistic when all of them came.
Marc:I said, you mean when they're like, well, I think I said it's sort of a play on wild animals, like horses or a herd of them.
Marc:He calls the herd, right, the one guy calls the rest of them.
Marc:It seemed like too many.
Marc:They must do that with special effects or something.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It just didn't seem realistic.
Marc:I mean, there's nothing realistic about it.
Marc:And then the odd thing is neither one of us, certainly not him, but I could not remember what the fuck that ad is for.
Marc:So is that an effective ad?
Marc:I didn't know what it was for.
Marc:But you remember the weird motor.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a progressive ad.
Marc:They're not paying for this spot.
Marc:But being home is interesting, man.
Marc:You know how it is.
Marc:There's something so comforting and so horrific about it simultaneously.
Marc:And I don't know what I do here.
Marc:I've had these thoughts, and I don't know about you, but for the past five years, five or six years, I find myself looking at homes here, looking at homes.
Marc:I have these ideas in my head.
Marc:I'm driving around here.
Marc:I'm driving around these streets and these roads that I grew up on.
Marc:Do I want to come back here?
Marc:Has anything changed?
Marc:What is here?
Marc:I mean, I love my house.
Marc:I love my house in California.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:I don't know if the entire state's going to burn down this year.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know what's going to happen.
Marc:But I'm just starting to question this weird nostalgia.
Marc:Because it was strange, I was driving, you know, I grew up, I stayed at a place here, beautiful place called Los Poblanos.
Marc:And I've talked to you about this before, I knew the family that lived here when we were kids.
Marc:I knew all of them, there was four of them, there was two houses on this property and eight people and I knew them all because I went to school with most of them.
Marc:the ones my age and they still own the property and it's beautiful but it's it's literally a block away from where I grew up and for some reason I always drive down the street to look at the lot where my old house was it's not there anymore there's another house that looks kind of like it and I'm just I don't know what I'm waiting for I don't know what kicks in I don't know what I think's gonna happen but I actually picked up my dad to drive try to drive him through some things and
Marc:that he might remember.
Marc:And I drove by the house that we've originally moved into when, uh, when I came here to Albuquerque in 69, probably.
Marc:And, uh, so I was what seven and it was, it's just odd to go to, to, to sort of see what the memory holds onto or what it remembers.
Marc:And,
Marc:And wondering, like, what has changed?
Marc:Has my memory changed or has this block changed?
Marc:Obviously, both are true.
Marc:Obviously, people do different things with the homes around the neighborhood.
Marc:Some homes are gone entirely.
Marc:Not unlike things in your memory.
Marc:But I drove down to the elementary school that I went to, which was right down the street from the house we were originally in.
Marc:And that looked totally different.
Marc:But I was in that schoolyard.
Marc:You know, I shed blood.
Marc:in that schoolyard.
Marc:I got goat heads stuck in my hands in that schoolyard.
Marc:I got bitten by ants in that schoolyard.
Marc:I walked around with crutches.
Marc:I had my first crushes there.
Marc:I, it's just, what does it all mean?
Marc:What I, I guess they're just these journeys through memory.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm trying to jog my dad's memory.
Marc:I'm trying to get a sense of where he's at mentally around memory.
Marc:And it's interesting what, what sticks and what doesn't.
Marc:I, so many of my memories are clear and so many of them, they're just fragments in my head, bits and pieces of things I did getting on, getting in front of my third grade class and reciting all of the presidents in order.
Marc:Cause I had memorized them and,
Marc:Doing weird shows in front of my class with this other kid, Jerry Graves.
Marc:We'd do bits from Sesame Street where he'd play Grover and I'd interview him.
Marc:That's when I started show business.
Marc:Those two things.
Marc:Saying the president's in order and interviewing Grover was really the original WTF in third grade.
Marc:Mrs. Webb's class, if anyone remembers.
Marc:I don't think there's any audio available.
Marc:But driving through the memories, it's kind of amazing.
Marc:I guess I get overwhelmed with it.
Marc:So there's no way this can't be bittersweet.
Marc:And I spend time with my old buddy, David Kleinfeld, who I've known since second grade.
Marc:And you kind of go over the things.
Marc:There's a 40-year high school reunion coming.
Marc:I can't fucking believe it.
Marc:But it's weird.
Marc:It just is interesting what you hold on to.
Marc:Do you hold on to good things or do you hold on to embarrassing things?
Marc:Do you hold on to painful things?
Marc:What are the things you hold on to?
Marc:Weird things?
Marc:Other people's vulnerability?
Marc:What are these moments?
Marc:Because most of them come out...
Marc:Most of them are moments.
Marc:I remember trying to make an arrowhead across the street at this guy Peter's house with taking a rock and chipping away at another rock, a piece of obsidian, I think, or a black rock that I had found.
Marc:a rock chip went into my eye and pierced my cornea and i had to wear a patch for a while see i wouldn't call that a good memory but i remember it i remember he also had a small naked picture of his mother that didn't show much but you know these are you know it's a little yin and yang there right and he wasn't even my friend he just lived across the street uh so i was driving around with my dad it was you know it was interesting
Marc:It was interesting and heavy and emotional and human and good to move through it with him.
Marc:All right, folks.
Marc:So Andrew Santino, as I said, comedian, actor, new friend, I think.
Marc:He hosts the podcast Whiskey Ginger and is the co-host of Bad Friends with Bobby Lee.
Marc:You can get them wherever you get podcasts and watch them on YouTube.
Marc:And this is me talking to Andrew Santino.
Andrew Santino.
Marc:What I don't understand with that, I was thinking about last night after, not after I left you, but I was doing a spot and I'm sort of in a, I give zero fucks at it and I'm kind of pushing the envelope a little again.
Marc:And sort of like, hey man, a joke's a joke.
Marc:And then you got to really think about it because I thought about it last night for myself.
Marc:Like, I'm talking about death.
Marc:You know, I'm talking about my dad's beginning dementia and shit.
Marc:So how do you frame that in that you've got to believe the tone of this has to be an antidote.
Marc:It can't be just mocking the thing.
Marc:It's got to make the people that have experienced it feel better.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Now, you can't – I don't think you have any control over what triggers anybody.
Marc:But I think if a joke is designed correctly, people – even people who feel pain about what you're talking about should be like, oh, that's – Yeah, I know what that feels like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At least it hits them in a spot that they go – even if it's uncomfortable, they understand how you can find the humor in the chaos.
Marc:What you're trying to do is disarm it, not trying to make it worse.
Marc:You're not trying to inflame it with a joke.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, the only reason we're fucking funny is to avoid pain.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To get away from all the shit that really hurts our feelings.
Guest:But all the stuff gets kind of expunged by...
Guest:You know, all this, all these other things around us.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Our insecurities come bleeding through when we really hear something that hurts us.
Guest:Someone could say Mark Maron sucks.
Guest:Mark Maron sucks.
Guest:I think they said it today.
Guest:Let me see.
Guest:Let's look at Twitter.
Guest:I'm sure.
Guest:I'm sure.
Guest:But it doesn't bother you.
Guest:Someone's doing that right now.
Guest:Of course it bothers me.
Guest:No, it doesn't.
Guest:It does a little.
Guest:It bothers you when, I think it really bothers us when it's something that we know that we don't like about ourselves.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:And the good ones, the good trolls, they can fucking find that right away.
Marc:Oh, they got you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But like it always bothers me.
Marc:But what I've learned to do is just not engage.
Marc:Like I have to, it's sort of Zen mind shit.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, you know, like if I get, if I see some of that and there's that impulse and I'm like, nah, just don't.
Marc:Take a breath.
Marc:It'll be gone.
Marc:Walk away.
Marc:Or mute it.
Marc:I don't even block them anyway.
Marc:I don't want to give them the satisfaction.
Marc:I'll just mute it, and it's like, I don't see it.
Guest:Blocking is giving them power.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That's giving them a lot of firepower.
Guest:I don't give them no blocking.
Guest:Well, I'm an inch away from deleting Twitter.
Guest:I've said this for the past, I don't know.
Guest:Decade?
Guest:Me too.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Ten years.
Guest:Have you ever done it?
Guest:You can do it for two months.
Guest:I've done it.
Guest:I've done it before.
Guest:But I'm talking about physically deleting my account forever.
Guest:I've thought about that, of erasing the account.
Marc:Now, okay, so you have that moment where you're going to do that.
Marc:Now, what drives that?
Marc:Why?
Marc:Because for me, it's sort of like, I don't want to be vulnerable to this shit anymore.
Marc:I don't want to be public.
Guest:And I don't want to be attacked by nobodies.
Guest:No, for me, it's like, I've started to go, what am I getting out of this?
Guest:Someone said to me- It's like crack.
Guest:What do you mean when you get it?
Guest:Well, someone said about the podcast world.
Guest:When you do podcasts with people, what are you getting out of it?
Guest:Are you getting something?
Guest:Am I getting something?
Guest:Is it a duality?
Guest:And so Twitter's the same way.
Guest:Am I getting anything out of this?
Guest:Truly.
Guest:And I've started to learn that I wasn't getting anything out of it.
Guest:It wasn't fun.
Guest:I wasn't getting humor satisfaction.
Guest:I wasn't even getting entertainment anymore.
Guest:But were you getting likes?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, because I don't post.
Guest:That's my thing.
Guest:I stopped posting.
Marc:I don't post much.
Marc:I just post to promote.
Guest:Same.
Guest:So Twitter for me was like a business tool and then I would go on it.
Guest:I used to go on it to watch fun stuff go down.
Guest:Great tweets from comics that I love and respect or something really funny or engaging.
Marc:But now we don't respect any of them anymore.
Guest:No, but they all suck.
Guest:It's all gone by the wayside.
Guest:I just don't love it anymore.
Marc:Oh, no, it's the worst.
Marc:And it really feels like a sewer.
Marc:It feels like such a consistent sewer of fucking the subconscious of the world in the worst way.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:It's the worst of it.
Guest:But some of those sewer rats are very, very good at just unearthing shit and hurting you and being mean for no reason.
Guest:We all do it, and people do it to us, too.
Marc:Like, that guy sucks.
Marc:It's like, I've been doing this 30 years.
Guest:40 years yeah i don't suck you heard one joke yeah you maybe don't like me right i understand but i don't suck suck yeah no i suck but i my art doesn't suck yeah yeah yeah you may not like me right right i don't like me i understand it yeah right but i don't suck i'm just not for you right no it's true yeah i did a phone interview for this thing recently and they said the guy said uh
Guest:You've really kind of made a little bit of headway in the comedy world.
Guest:And it's a great pop for you.
Guest:And I was like, it's only been 16 years of me grinding my fucking head.
Guest:But people don't know or care that you've put in any effort into that.
Guest:For them, it's nothing.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Radio guys being condescending.
Marc:Surprise.
Guest:That's why I quit doing those.
Marc:But we're all doing radio.
Marc:It's like, who knew that this would be the aspiration?
Marc:A world of mediocre radio personalities.
Marc:It used to be when you were a comic and you'd see the comic who is the side guy at the radio station, you'd be like, that guy fucking blew it.
Guest:Poor bastard.
Marc:But it's like, no, he didn't.
Marc:He just didn't do it on his own terms.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:He's just doing it from a corporate level.
Guest:Yeah, we can do it now, but we decide.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's ours.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All those years of going, I don't want to go do radio.
Guest:Fuck radio.
Marc:Now I do it every day.
Marc:In our house.
Yeah.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:It blew my mind.
Marc:Kevin Christie brought that up to me.
Marc:Like I never really thought about it.
Marc:That like most podcasts, if there's more than one person, it's just some sort of version of drive time radio.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:It's just two idiots talking.
Guest:Do you have any buttons there to make noises?
Guest:No.
Marc:Any of that stuff?
Marc:I have an old one from when I did radio.
Marc:They were called 360 machine.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, it was a programmable machine and you could record on all the buttons.
Marc:I used to have them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, we didn't have noises and I never really got the hang of it.
Marc:So wait, 16 years?
Marc:Well, no.
Marc:15 years.
Marc:15.
Marc:But that's- Yeah, 15 years.
Marc:That's all in.
Marc:That's for real.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I don't know you at all.
Marc:I don't know how that happened.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I knew of you because you were on the show, and then people said you were funny.
Marc:But somehow or another, we never really crossed paths.
Guest:Well, here's what it is.
Guest:I can explain it.
Guest:Because this happens- You're avoiding me.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You'd look at the schedule and be like, fuck that guy.
Guest:Fuck Maren.
Okay.
Guest:No, but honestly, for many, many people, particularly like your generation of comics, say the same thing to me.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:In the sense of like, I never met that guy, but I've heard you were funny.
Guest:I've always been on... When somebody goes, who's your group, your comedic friendship circle?
Guest:You can probably name... Are you doing my job now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where'd you come up?
Guest:Yeah, here in LA.
Guest:Oh, I started in LA.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:But when somebody asked me, who's my friendship circle?
Guest:If they ask you, you can name it.
Guest:For me, I couldn't tell you.
Guest:I have guys that I- Different when you come up here.
Guest:Yeah, I just have a lot of groups of people I can associate with.
Guest:I started in Eastside rooms, and then I made my way to the store.
Guest:And then I was an improv guy for a long time.
Guest:Then I was, you know, doing Eastside rooms again.
Guest:And-
Guest:Like I, I had touched a lot of different groups.
Marc:I know guys who came up here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it seemed like the guys who came up here from my day, like the, who were like people like Spade or Sandler, those guys who were in Spade and Sandler was in New York for five minutes when he was a kid, but they knew the guys that came up my generation, they were like, they knew the game.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like it's a hard town to come up in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But they came out like with show business in mind.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Like for me, I didn't understand show business till like three years ago.
Yeah.
Marc:Now it's making sense.
Marc:Now I get how I fucked up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I somehow, because of my garage, I was able to make something happen.
Marc:But I never understood it as a business.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I learned fast.
Marc:But when in New York, you could definitely see...
Marc:I started out with Attell, Jeff Ross, Todd Berry, Sarah Silverman, Nick DiPaolo.
Marc:There was a whole crew of guys that were after the Colin Quinn generation.
Marc:Then we were all there.
Marc:And those are the guys I started with.
Guest:Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.
Guest:People ask, who's your crew?
Guest:Right.
Guest:They weren't my crew, but they were around.
Guest:But you know what I mean?
Guest:That's kind of an associated acts would be the best way to say it.
Guest:I didn't have any.
Marc:Well, I mean, I still don't.
Marc:But I get it.
Marc:But I mean, for what what the question is, is like when you were doing when you were starting out, when you were doing Mike's.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:On the east side.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Who do we know that was doing them with you?
Guest:A lot of those guys either quit or moved on to other shit.
Guest:Smart.
Guest:I would say I would say they're much smarter than us.
Guest:I would say guys that I really... You know, Jake Wiseman was somebody who I always loved.
Guest:You don't know him?
Guest:I know the name, I think.
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Marc:But I'm just old now.
Marc:I used to think, like, I'm in the loop.
Marc:I know all the guys.
Guest:Well, Ron Funches and I kind of started together at the same... I mean, you know, we kind of... When he moved here from...
Guest:uh portland yeah from portland he was kind of in my click of young you know i can say this the guys that i did a half hour with on comedy central right was me brooks whelan uh mark normand uh sam morrell uh who are those are new york guys and then la guys would be it was um besides brooks it was also tone bell and hampton yount do you know hampton uh-uh
Guest:So yeah, I mean, that was my half-hour group of guys, and that was kind of my generation of guys.
Guest:It's weird.
Marc:The reason I don't know some of them now, because things are so different.
Marc:I mean, when I was coming up, we were all sort of gunning for the same thing, and there was only a few outlets.
Marc:So anybody who got that exposure, who got the deal,
Marc:for whatever, you kind of knew.
Marc:Because there was only three networks and a couple cable outlets.
Marc:So you'd know.
Marc:Now there are guys like, oh, he's fucking huge.
Marc:And you're like, what do you mean he's huge?
Marc:Got a million this, million that.
Marc:I'm like, I don't know that guy.
Guest:On what?
Guest:You don't even know what that is.
Guest:But that's great.
Guest:I think now the outlets are- No, it's fine.
Guest:Because we were so tired of fighting for the same things.
Guest:We were all fighting for the same shit.
Guest:What's the quality, though?
Guest:Isn't TikTok just tricks?
Guest:But that doesn't exist in our world.
Guest:You know that.
Guest:I don't know what exists.
Guest:What exists is hardworking comics who make it, quote unquote, who have a continual career.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They didn't come from any of those things.
Guest:And you know that.
Guest:Except for Bo Burnham.
Guest:Bo Burnham.
Guest:Bo Burnham is an anomaly.
Guest:A literal anomaly.
Guest:He's a talented anomaly.
Guest:He doesn't exist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's, you know what I mean?
Guest:He doesn't exist.
Guest:He did comedy at 15 years old.
Guest:It became in the zeitgeist of online comedy humor.
Marc:He was the first like YouTube-y guy.
Guest:He's the one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you can't name another one.
Guest:And then before that, it was the Dane phenomenon.
Guest:But that, but also a guy that captivated the singular market that you, okay, Dane is that, Bo was that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There are no others.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Maybe someone came and went.
Guest:I like how you thought, look, I have a chart about this.
Guest:Yeah, I did it at home.
Guest:It's on my wall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's lines connected.
Guest:That's my vision board.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it is true though.
Guest:Bo was an exception to the rule.
Guest:We like to think that there's these outlets that are brewing up shitty comics that are going to enter our world.
Guest:It doesn't exist.
Marc:I don't know what, I don't know how, I don't really understand how it all works, but I agree with you because even when we started doing alt comedy, you know, I was already a club guy.
Marc:We talked about this on your show.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Where, but like there are people who organically came out of the alt world.
Guest:There's not that many.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, no, there's not.
Guest:I mean, well, your generation probably spurred the biggest names of that world.
Guest:But people like Galifianakis, he was a club guy.
Guest:He started in regular clubs.
Guest:Yeah, but he became synonymous with alternative comedy.
Marc:Yeah, but even me and Patton, we ended up in San Francisco at the same time, and he started in regular clubs in Baltimore.
Marc:He's a regular club guy.
Marc:But you kind of get because we started doing those rooms that more suited our point of view.
Marc:But I can you know, I can vouch for his his club bona fides.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But but also this is this never ending argument that exists only in Los Angeles, by the way, in comedies with comics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of like club versus non club guys.
Guest:And you're like, what does that even mean?
Guest:It's important.
Yeah.
Guest:It's such bullshit.
Guest:It's important.
Guest:Someone tweeted, someone great tweeted, and he was an Eastside guy, and I wish I would know.
Guest:I don't want to call him out.
Guest:So you're like, I don't even know what that means, an Eastside guy.
Guest:A non-comedy store guy.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:So, right.
Marc:Guys that only did- Not quite good enough to-
Guest:Oh, see.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:Yes.
Yeah.
Guest:But he said he tweeted something along the lines of all these East side rooms make fun of the comedy store for being like this bro, bro, commercial bullshit.
Guest:And you're like, go to a comedy store show.
Guest:Go to a comedy store show.
Guest:See the audience.
Guest:It's the most diverse outlandish group of, I can't believe these people in the same room together.
Guest:You go to an East side room.
Guest:Oftentimes just people's friends.
Guest:It's just a bunch of fucking white people with beards.
Marc:I couldn't stand doing it.
Marc:It's whites with beards.
Marc:Even when I went to Nerd Melt and shit, I was like, what is this?
Marc:Where's the mix of it?
Marc:And there's a bro contingent at this store, but it's like those shows, there's a nice balance between big stars, bros, people you feel kind of bad about.
Marc:I'm like, oh, this is a little sad.
Marc:I hope they do okay.
Marc:Isn't that nice to feel all the waves of that?
Guest:That's why I love the story.
Marc:The full range of emotion.
Marc:And people are very forgiving about it.
Marc:They assume because you're up there, you have to be reckoned with.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And there's a lot of old dudes that were like, what's happening?
Marc:It's like- Change.
Guest:It's over.
Guest:Fucking change, man.
Guest:That's what's happening.
Marc:So-
Marc:Wait, so you grew up in Chicago?
Guest:I grew up in Chicago.
Guest:Chicago.
Guest:And then I moved to go to school in Arizona.
Marc:But wait, so what was Chicago, man?
Marc:So what was the- What was my deal?
Marc:What was the crucible that created you?
Marc:What were you chiseled?
Guest:My parents got divorced before I was one.
Guest:Oh, that's it.
Marc:So you're broken.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:Before I was one.
Guest:I never knew my parents- Before you were one?
Guest:Yeah, my parents were never together.
Guest:In my mind, I never saw them together.
Marc:So-
Guest:santino the old man the old man no he's he's uh but he took off well he got he went to jail prison the other one big time but multiple times he went to prison a few times so he's uh he was a failure at whatever he was doing yeah he yeah well he was or he was very very good at it yeah yeah i think he loved cocaine a lot i think drug drugs are my father's vice wait so you you had to back load all this information or you had a relationship with the guy
Guest:I never knew the guy.
Guest:I only had to, I had to learn him as I got older.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So do you have brothers and sisters from the same man?
Guest:No, I'm the only of mine.
Guest:The only kid?
Guest:The only kid of my mom and dad.
Guest:My mom and my stepdad have my sister and then my dad has children of his own.
Guest:And you just heard about that?
Guest:I would slowly learn about their existence.
Marc:So wait, so when do you, so okay, you're growing, when did you, how old were you when your mom married the stepdad?
Marc:They got married when I was nine.
Guest:Oh, so you had, it was just you and your mom.
Guest:For a while, yeah, living in the city.
Guest:And we lived downtown Chicago in these high rises that are quite luxurious.
Guest:But then I learned we were on like government subsidy programs because my mom worked for the companies that property manage these high rises.
Guest:Oh, so she got a deal.
Guest:So we kind of lived in the laps of luxury, but we had no money.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, she was a working woman.
Guest:We had money.
Guest:But she figured out an angle to get the good place.
Guest:It was incredible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we would move from building to building, and we lived in three different buildings in downtown Chicago.
Guest:She met my stepdad.
Guest:What did he do?
Guest:He was in the automotive industry.
Guest:He worked for Turtle Wax for years.
Guest:Turtle Wax.
Guest:Do you know what that is?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a line of car care products.
Guest:Correct.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And he bounced around in the automotive industry.
Guest:And then when she got pregnant with my sister, they wanted to move to the suburbs because they didn't want to raise another kid in the city.
Guest:They had fucked up one, and they were like, we can't fuck up two.
Guest:You?
Marc:Yeah, me.
Marc:So when do you start piecing together stuff about your dad?
Guest:You know, it was always so, you know that song, The Cat's in the Cradle?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's like literally my life.
Guest:And I mean that generally.
Guest:You know when somebody goes, that song's written about me?
Guest:It really is.
Guest:Like my father was never present in my life.
Guest:My stepdad was a great father to me, a great dad to me.
Guest:But my father would do that thing where he'd be like, I'm coming to pick you up and never come.
Guest:That was real.
Guest:I'd sit on the porch and my mom to this day loathes.
Guest:I mean, you know when someone's like, oh, I don't really hate my ex.
Guest:My mom couldn't hate a human anymore on earth because of me.
Guest:Not because of them.
Guest:She doesn't give a fuck about their mishap of a relationship.
Guest:But just how could you do that to the kid?
Guest:To the kid.
Guest:You're sitting out there with your baseball glove.
Guest:Right, with a bat.
Guest:Always with a bat.
Guest:Dad, can we play hit instead of catch?
Guest:But I just, I think that shaped me a lot as far as like become let down.
Guest:I understood what being let down meant.
Guest:I understood what gauging expectations meant.
Marc:But wait, but so this started happening when you were like three, four, five.
Guest:It started probably when I was four or five, and then it continued on into my young teens.
Guest:So every time that happened, your mom would have to be like, she would explain him?
Guest:She really wouldn't say much.
Guest:To be honest with you, my mom and I have an extremely close bond.
Guest:We understand each other remarkably well.
Guest:I understand how she feels, and she knows how I feel, and we move forward to something else together.
Guest:But you've met the guy.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Yes, of course, of course.
Guest:I'm just saying he was such a sporadic insertion in my life that it was so random.
Guest:I only know what I know of him in snippets.
Guest:It reads like a- So he would come in the car and- He'd pick me up and I'd spend a day with him or two days with him.
Guest:And what would you do?
Guest:Go on his job runs.
Guest:He was a contractor.
Guest:I'd go to the south side of Chicago or the west side of Chicago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he would do these job runs in these predominantly black neighborhoods.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they loved him and he was a people person.
Guest:That's the one thing my mother was like, at least you took away personality.
Guest:He was like, there he is.
Guest:Everybody loved him.
Guest:Everyone loves him.
Guest:He is bigger than life.
Guest:I mean, he can talk to anybody.
Guest:People love him.
Guest:Santino.
Guest:Santino.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He just had a vibe about him where he was really good at not making other people feel less than.
Guest:We're all equals all the time, no matter race or color.
Guest:He was very good at that, which made him a good salesman.
Guest:He related to many different people.
Guest:Was he a salesman?
Guest:Yeah, a contractor.
Guest:So he would be selling work.
Guest:So he was a fix-it guy?
Guest:He would assemble a crew to redo kitchens and decks and- Hustlers.
Guest:A lot of exterior work.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And his father was a hustler.
Guest:My grandfather worked at the dog track until he died a couple months ago.
Guest:In Chicago.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, there's a horse track, there's Arlington, and there's Maywood, a dog track, a Greyhound dog track.
Guest:Greyhounds, yeah.
Guest:My grandfather was a consummate gambler who spent his entire living at the track working there.
Marc:And gambling there.
Guest:Yeah, and was a numbers runner for the mob when he was a kid.
Guest:Numbers.
Guest:Yeah, so he was like a, you know, when he was a young kid, he was a numbers runner for the mafia.
Guest:Sure, running around the neighborhood with the pads.
Guest:Yeah, so I learned what his friends were, and I've talked about this before, but Joe the Hat was one of his friends.
Guest:I thought that was normal to have- The guys with the nicknames?
Guest:Right, I thought that was a thing that people do, because generationally.
Guest:So was your dad connected?
Guest:Only through his father, but my father got into his own world through drugs and partying.
Guest:I guess you could say those are branches of one another.
Guest:But you didn't deal?
No.
Guest:I don't... That's the other thing.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Oh, you don't know.
Guest:All I know is he fucked up.
Guest:Is he around?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's still alive.
Guest:He's in Chicago.
Guest:We speak... Like I said, we speak like cats in the cradle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, I'd love to see you.
Guest:And I'm like, I got my own shit going on.
Guest:It's tough to now... But he's out of the who's go?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But my stepdad is my...
Guest:Is my dad.
Guest:I saw him my dad.
Guest:Sure, of course, yeah.
Guest:And he was always the father figure.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He taught me how to ride a bike and take a punch and play a sport.
Guest:How do you teach someone to take a punch?
Guest:Your father hits you.
Guest:You got to fucking let him lay one in you.
Guest:Hold still.
Guest:Yeah, don't be a pussy about leaning against the wall and you take a...
Guest:He just really was kind of like the everything I needed.
Guest:But the one thing that was missing was I never understood why this guy couldn't get it.
Guest:No, he just couldn't get it together.
Guest:It was more like, why couldn't you get it together?
Guest:Is life that hard?
Guest:And you're kind of a hyper together guy.
Guest:If you saw my house, you'd be nauseated.
Guest:Everything goes in its place.
Guest:A mise en place.
Marc:Yeah, so when you walked into my house, you're like, what's all this stuff on the front?
Guest:No, yours is quite neat, actually.
Guest:Yeah, you're very neat.
Guest:But my stepdad was a military kid, so that also bleeds over into this.
Guest:Discipline?
Guest:Yeah, and also just like with like, I'm annoyingly OCD.
Guest:We're like shoes by the front door.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And I'd say to my wife, I'd be like, why are there three pairs of shoes by the front door?
Guest:And she's like, who the fuck cares?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, let's just keep one.
Guest:Problem.
Guest:Yeah, let's keep one by the front door.
Guest:Can't have things out of balance.
Guest:Yeah, that's annoying.
Guest:I think that's overcompensating for the lack of structure.
Guest:I'd lock in on stuff.
Marc:I mean, I do that when I am, like I told you yesterday, like I've got this thing where I'm locking onto things that I have to get, like I have been dealing with this aerator that goes into one of my bathroom faucets.
Marc:You know, the little thing that fits where the water comes out, there's an aerator and then like a screwing, like I guess you'd call it a washer.
Guest:It's a washer.
Marc:It's almost like a washer.
Marc:and i've bought two sizes that don't fit and i'm like i'm in this thing like and it doesn't even need it right like i had a plumber come to fix it and he said the aerator was clogged so i said i'll just get another one but you don't know about plumbing do you know about nothing so now i'm in it like i'm in i'm in it for like 30 already in aerators that are useless and then i was at the hardware store yesterday i'm like i can bring the whole screw and thing in you can get the whole piece right so today
Marc:Today's a big day.
Marc:Today's a huge day.
Marc:Oh, big.
Guest:Yeah, I'm going in with the piece.
Guest:I'm excited for you.
Guest:I'm excited for that moment that happens.
Guest:When I get it in there?
Guest:Where the guy goes, you brought the wrong fucking thing.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:They don't make this anymore.
Guest:They don't, huh?
Guest:Is there a way for me to get it online?
Guest:He's like, listen, man, just hire a plumber.
Guest:You're like, but I did.
Guest:I already had the guy.
Guest:I did.
Marc:I can do this myself.
Guest:How hard is it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's like, all right.
Guest:Well, listen, either hire a guy or I got not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I like being fucked off by those people because we deserve it.
Guest:We think we can do their things.
Guest:Everyone thinks they can do things.
Guest:You just look it up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Anything you, like, how do you do this?
Marc:Like, there's got to be something online.
Marc:And there is.
Marc:There is.
Marc:There is.
Marc:Doesn't mean you're going to do it well.
Marc:But yeah, but also it feels like cheating.
Marc:Like, this is not the way people learned.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Marc:There was years of practice.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And embarrassment from the guy.
Guest:Well, like the guy came over to clip all these trees.
Guest:We have an oak tree.
Guest:It has to be cut by, the city has to approve an arborist.
Guest:It's actually illegal in LA County.
Guest:To fuck with oak trees.
Guest:To fuck with oak trees.
Guest:Same with up north.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we have these arborists that have to come to approve what you can cut.
Guest:And he would ask me questions about like sun numbers and shade percentages to certain parts of the house.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm talking out of my ass like I know what I'm saying.
Guest:Because he says it to you as if you know.
Guest:Like, you know the sun number on this side of the home.
Marc:They figure if you're going to be in that proximity to that tree, you've got to be obsessed.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Don't you know?
Guest:How do you not know?
Marc:You have one of the classic oaks.
Guest:It's insane.
Guest:And I just ramble on.
Guest:I go, right.
Guest:Yes, of course.
Guest:Yeah, I think it's... What did you say it was?
Guest:And then he'll tell you.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:What can I do?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Can we do this?
Guest:I need to...
Guest:And at the end of it, you just realize you don't know shit, but also it's kind of comfortable because you know that they know that none of us know shit.
Marc:Well, the weird thing is, depending on how you grow up in the world, it's like you don't always know that you can pay people to do things.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's like, I'm going to do this myself.
Marc:And then you're like, I have no idea what I'm doing.
Marc:It's like pay a guy like $15 an hour.
Marc:Who does it for a living?
Guest:All day long.
Marc:They'll just fucking do it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's amazing.
Marc:And then when they come and do it, when they leave, you kind of feel like half like you did it.
Marc:I made that happen.
Guest:I mean, I did the right thing.
Guest:I was a contractor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When they fix it, you feel good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Like, have you ever painted any rooms in your home?
Guest:I'm not going to do that.
Guest:See, that's funny.
Guest:I mean, I don't mind doing it, but I know there's guys who can hold the line better.
Marc:You got to be able to cut that line.
Guest:Well, my wife's dad is a contractor and he is brilliant with fixing stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when we bought the house, that was the one thing he's like, we should paint it together.
Guest:All of us.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:So we did.
Guest:And also I gained a new level of respect for people that paint.
Guest:It is a fucking nightmare.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:Taping, prepping.
Guest:And then that's just the first coat, which takes you days of these rooms.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the second, you're like, oh, there's another time we have to do this?
Guest:I like to handle that.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So you're all good?
Guest:All right.
Guest:I'm going out.
Guest:My podcast isn't as successful as yours, so I need to cut corners where I can financially.
Guest:I'll be back in a few hours.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then you come back like, oh my God.
Guest:You guys did great.
Guest:This is amazing.
Guest:Yeah, the level of respect I earned when you have a home and you learn when people fix stuff, you're like, oh, this is a fucking nightmare.
Guest:I can't believe you do this.
Guest:I do it all the time.
Guest:I try to fix stuff all the time.
Guest:And I can handle some things.
Guest:But like what?
Guest:What's the biggest thing you fixed?
Guest:Like genuinely where someone would go, wow, that's pretty impressive.
Guest:You knew how to do that.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Yeah, because it's nothing substantial.
Marc:No, it's just little things here and there.
Marc:I mean, I don't fix it.
Marc:The problem with fixing is that you can start it, but you got to follow all the way through.
Marc:And there's a lot of tricks to getting things back together.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Taking things apart is easy.
Marc:So easy.
Marc:But putting them back together like, oh, did you try to put that on first?
Marc:Like, I don't know.
Guest:I didn't know that goes on first.
Marc:How could I know?
Guest:This is my level of fixing stuff.
Guest:One of the toilets slowly leaks.
Guest:I just have to turn off the water when I'm done using the toilet now until the plumber comes and fixes it.
Guest:Oh, I can get into the back of a toilet and do stuff.
Guest:I don't even want to.
Guest:No, I can do that.
Guest:You want to go over and do it, please?
Guest:No, I mean, what's the problem?
Guest:It's running?
Guest:Yeah, well, it's such an old system.
Guest:I think the lines are leaking.
Guest:So I think it needs to be- Oh, it's running.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, barely.
Guest:You can hear it so faint.
Marc:Yeah, that's a simple thing.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:It's the thing that goes that when you flush it, it lifts up a little plug.
Guest:No, the cap, I've replaced that.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah, I've done that.
Guest:I did that.
Guest:See?
Guest:I did that.
Guest:So it's still running.
Guest:And I called my plumber, Rene, and I explained to him, and he goes, I think it's a problem with the line itself, the line itself, which in my head goes, thousands of dollars.
Marc:Well, this happened here.
Marc:That bottom bathroom, the new bathroom-
Marc:Like all of a sudden it was just covered in water.
Marc:The entire walls, it was spraying out the back of one of the pipes behind the toilet.
Marc:And it just, you can look in there.
Marc:There's water stains all over the paint.
Marc:I'm like, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:And I had some doofus who I had hired who was like not a real handyman.
Marc:Those are the guys you got to watch out for.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:And he's like, you know, I've seen this before.
Marc:It's probably a nail, an old nail in one of the lines.
Marc:I'm like, what?
Marc:How?
Marc:And then I just had a fucking plumber come over and he's like, you just got to tighten this up.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Just one crank to the left.
Marc:And that's it.
Marc:And I was like, I'm a fucking idiot.
Marc:No one thought of that.
Marc:I had this other guy, this hack.
Marc:Fucking handyman.
Marc:This beer drinking guy that does two things well.
Marc:Like I remember when I had to get the contractor in to do this ADU.
Marc:I asked that guy that got referred to me.
Marc:And I'm like, do you know how to handle this?
Marc:He's like, yeah.
Marc:I'm like, do you?
Marc:The stutter.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I showed him the plans.
Marc:He's like, oh, looks like you got to get a lot of stuff checked.
Marc:I'm like, thanks.
Marc:I'm going to thank you for your input.
Guest:We'll talk later.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We'll talk another time.
Guest:I got fucked over by insurance.
Guest:You got to pay the guy.
Guest:We had a leak in the middle of the night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I hear like, and it's the hot water heater.
Guest:One of the hose lines broke.
Guest:So I turn off the water source.
Guest:I go and I get a new line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But at this point, damage has been done to the pilot starter box.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We'll be right back.
Guest:This is a guy talk with Mark Maron and Andrews.
Guest:Guys who don't know how to fix things.
Guest:Fix shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But anyway, we got fucked.
Marc:I called insurance.
Guest:From what I understand, he put up some drywall 30 years ago because he's still talking about it.
Guest:Construction.
Guest:He's doing it now.
Guest:He's rebuilding North Hollywood.
Guest:Is he?
Guest:Yeah, that's what he says.
Guest:Top to bottom.
Guest:No, but I had to pay this guy to basically tell me that I was fucked because I called insurance and I said, you guys said you'd pay for this.
Guest:And they said, yeah, but it's a warranty thing.
Guest:And they ran us around so much for such a minuscule thing.
Guest:From that point on, I said, if it breaks, we will just pay someone to fix it.
Guest:Or just get a new one.
Guest:Well, we did end up getting a new one.
Guest:A lot of times it's not as much as you do.
Guest:you think it is.
Guest:I'm also quite cheap.
Guest:I'll say that.
Guest:I'm very cheap.
Guest:Why is that?
Guest:Is it the way you grew up?
Guest:A fear of losing, a fear of it all going away.
Guest:Just the comic cheap?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Kind of like, got to hold on.
Guest:But I think I'm even more, I'm cheaper than most comics.
Marc:So what were you going?
Marc:So you have this life where your dad's in and out of jail.
Marc:He's a problem.
Marc:He shows up occasionally, takes you down to the site.
Marc:You have kind of a relationship.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Early on, it was sad.
Marc:Was there a period where you're like, fuck that guy?
Marc:I'm done.
Guest:I had a lot of fuck that guys.
Guest:I mean, as you would in anything.
Guest:Did you ever fight him?
Guest:No, but I had a lot of moments where I realized I was a grown-up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, ah, fuck you.
Guest:I don't owe you shit.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that was kind of a moment that I realized probably out of college.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think he got annoyed or angry at something because he was-
Guest:He had gone through sobriety many times and had relapsed, and then I think he was annoyed that I didn't want him present for something, something personal.
Guest:And my mom was- Like your graduation or something?
Guest:I don't really remember.
Guest:I think it was like a birthday, whatever.
Guest:So did you have to deal with him drunk?
Guest:Never.
Guest:No, no drunk.
Guest:No drunk.
Guest:Cocaine was, I mean, he was mostly.
Guest:So you had to deal with him jacked?
Guest:Never.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Now, the one credit I will give, unless I was too young to understand, was he never was fucked up around me.
Guest:But around me, he was probably biding his time.
Guest:It was probably like, I have the kid for 20 hours.
Guest:I can stay sober for 20 hours and get rid of him and go back.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Do I know that for a fact?
Guest:No.
Guest:But I imagine that's what it was.
Guest:And your mom, she's like straight?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I mean, she'll have a couple of drinks, but yeah, she never... I mean, she grew up... She's born in 55, so she smoked pot.
Guest:She was part of that revolution.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But probably tried acid.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Never was... You don't know if she tried acid?
Guest:No, she did.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah, she did.
Guest:And now they're into weed again.
Guest:It's so funny.
Guest:My childhood getting yelled at for smoking pot.
Guest:Now everyone's into weed.
Guest:Well, now gummies are cool with my mom.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:She likes them?
Guest:She doesn't like smoking because she used to smoke cigarettes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So she wants to get away from smoking.
Guest:So she'll take gummies.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've been sober so long.
Marc:I missed the whole gummy thing.
Guest:I missed all that stuff.
Guest:And it's a train that I don't know if you need to ride anyway.
Guest:Nah.
Guest:it's not all I know is that people like never they always do too much with gummies 100% yeah that you can take a hit of a joint you can't take like a little piece of a gummy it just doesn't seem like it's not gonna work people are like I don't know I forgot how to pee you know it's like what that's what my buddy said when he first took it he goes I was worried about not breathing I was like that's not a fun that's not a fun way to get high yeah but she but no and so he just he had his struggles and I learned that I was my own man at some point I just was like
Guest:Oh, I don't fucking owe people anything.
Guest:I can be cordial and nice and polite to people, but I don't owe people shit.
Guest:And I always had that weird like, well, you should do right by them.
Guest:It's like, for what?
Guest:I don't owe them respect.
Guest:No, you don't.
Marc:Look, I'm with you.
Marc:My parents weren't even that terrible, but it's sort of like this idea...
Marc:When you realize on some level that there's a good chunk of who you are that you had to put together by yourself.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because they were not there to do it.
Marc:You had to figure out Mark.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So it's sort of like, I get the credit.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Guest:I know I hate you people, but you were just sort of around.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You built the thing that you've become, and those things shaped you a little bit.
Guest:But I don't...
Guest:I don't think anybody owes anybody shit.
Guest:You know what I used to say when I was a kid that I never really loved this idea that you had to always respect your elders?
Guest:I'm with you.
Guest:Because I was like, they could just be grown up assholes.
Marc:No, I'm totally with you.
Marc:And it's a weird thing that people don't really think about it because they take it for granted.
Marc:But it's like, you don't have to respect anybody who didn't fucking deserve the respect.
Marc:Yeah, that doesn't make sense.
Marc:It's just like this ridiculous kind of like submissive place.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I think that's sort of what part of the fuck you that drives being a comic.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I mean, I have a fundamental lack of respect for almost everything.
Yeah.
Marc:yeah almost there's a few things i do respect no like i i appreciate other people's skills and like you know when i can plainly see that people are capable of doing what they're what they say they're doing or artists or whatever right but the idea that like just because you have a certain job or that you hold a certain place that like that commands respect i don't know why i don't know you and who made that rule yeah where did that come
Marc:from so like yeah i'm not a complete fuck you to everything you know but there is a part of me that and it's gotten softer as time has gone on but i i don't automatically think you like there's certain people in like show business like on the other side of the business i'm like what the fuck yeah how did i don't i don't know if we need to go into it too much but you know it's like you're just like living off of me me off of me yeah and i'm not even one of the big earners no
Marc:Your bottom feeding.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I'm the guy that supplies pencils for the office.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Yeah, you're barely making a dent in the books.
Guest:But also...
Guest:I understand our position.
Guest:Like I've learned to just go, right, this is who I am to them and I'm okay with it now.
Marc:But what was the path, man?
Marc:I mean, so you went to college in where, Tucson?
Guest:No, I went to ASU in Phoenix.
Guest:Well, in Tempe.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, that's big.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So what happened was is my whole goal was to get to California, but I visited California and I knew immediately I could never afford it.
Guest:And my parents were never going to be like, here's all the money to go to wherever you wanted.
Guest:So I learned I could go to this school, the cheap out-of-state school, and I could get to California by way of.
Guest:Because I already knew in high school that I wanted to get into entertainment and specifically comedy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But you're running around Chicago.
Marc:Chicago is a great city, I think.
Marc:I've grown to love it.
Marc:I've worked there a lot in recent years.
Marc:And it's definitely its own thing.
Marc:There's definitely a lot of heavy people that smoke still.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're a fat city.
Guest:We're a fat city, but we're proud of it.
Guest:Smoke.
Guest:They smoke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You have to smoke.
Guest:You have to smoke to get through winter and you have to have the burden of going out to a garage to smoke when you're still cold and you crack the door a little bit.
Guest:I like that though.
Guest:It's a cultured city, but it's also annoying when you grow up and everyone has this right to complain about the weather.
Guest:It just gets tired.
Guest:You're like, yeah, well then fucking we should move.
Guest:Yeah, I know it's cold here a lot.
Guest:Why don't we move?
Guest:I'm the only one that left Chicago.
Guest:My mom's one of 10 kids, all of the brothers and sisters, all the grandkids.
Marc:they all live in chicago what do you make of that because it reminds me of boston where i lived as well too there's a lot of smoking and weight and it's like a it's one of the great cities yeah like there's only a few in this country and i think there people develop a loyalty to it and there's a whole you know way of thinking around it and because the culture families catholic yeah the culture supports that kind of uh lifestyle i would say like because you have a strong sports team presence which always does this bonding thing it makes us feel like we're all on the same team i missed all that yeah
Guest:But I mean, but it does.
Guest:If you move there, it would kind of do it to you naturally now.
Guest:You know, if you move to Chicago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You would go to a local bar restaurant and you'd feel the camaraderie that is kind of lacking in places like L.A.
Guest:where.
Guest:Yeah, I feel that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We don't have that thing.
Marc:I feel that in Chicago more than it's not New York much anymore.
Guest:No, but New York is such a. What?
Guest:New York is such a weird, different place.
Guest:It's its own universe.
Marc:Different universes.
Marc:But Chicago seems to have a core universe.
Marc:Like, where'd you tape that special?
Marc:At the Vic.
Marc:Yeah, I did one at the Vic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It looked different than mine.
Guest:I regretted it tremendously.
Guest:It sounded a little echoey.
Guest:Yeah, I hated it.
Guest:Why?
Guest:I wasn't ready to do that special.
Guest:I didn't want to really do it.
Guest:Showtime gave it to me because we did the show.
Guest:I didn't love everything I put on it.
Guest:I didn't really want to do it for some reason.
Guest:I just, I didn't love it and I didn't want to do it.
Guest:Yeah, it was so many things, but I felt like I should.
Guest:And I felt this pressure from Showtime.
Marc:There's a lot of me out there that you were like, you just didn't feel baked.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You were half cooked.
Guest:You weren't ready.
Guest:No, I wasn't ready.
Guest:And I just didn't really feel... The only thing that I loved about it was I was going back home to do something that I was proud to be able to say I was able to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But outside of that, I didn't love the special.
Guest:It wasn't the best version of me.
Guest:2016 or 17?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:huh this is not that long ago no and you feel like in the last three years my strength has gotten tremendous i've gotten so much stronger with how i structure now and the jokes i want to put out and yeah i just think i've gotten way stronger i've gotten that was more in for me it was more like when you think you're ready for something and you probably oh yeah i always thought i was ready
Guest:And you're probably not.
Marc:Like those stories I told you on your show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where I'm yelling.
Marc:I always thought like, you know, why am I not?
Marc:Well, we all feel that way.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But honestly, looking back on it, I was not ready to handle anything.
Guest:No.
Guest:But that's kind of the beauty of doing it then.
Guest:Like I'm okay with it.
Guest:Right?
Guest:I'm okay with it.
Guest:But also.
Marc:Like right now, when I did The Joker, from doing my podcast and talking to whoever's everything, I was not freaked out to be doing a walk and talk with De Niro.
Marc:Yeah, because why?
Marc:He's just a guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you're looking at him, it's like fucking Robert De Niro.
Marc:It's like, I know, but in person, it's not the same.
Marc:No, he's just a guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a man who has flaws and you kind of feel it from people.
Marc:And has a really hard time remembering very few lines.
Guest:Well, he's also, what is he, 80 now?
Guest:Old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, why do it anymore at this point?
Marc:I asked that.
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:He seems to have a lot going on.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yes, he does.
Marc:You get the big money, you get the big life, and that can turn on you.
Guest:Again, my fear, one we talked about before.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:My fear is like, why would I start being the guy who has all the too much shit and then you have to pay for all of it for the rest of your life?
Guest:Fuck that.
Guest:You're feeding it every month.
Guest:Yeah, no thanks.
Guest:Do you have a boat?
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:You got a boat.
Guest:You have guest houses and- Are you a boat guy?
Guest:No, no way.
Marc:I hate boats.
Guest:Why do I need to go out on a boat?
Guest:Motorcycle?
Guest:I like bikes, but I never will own one because, you know, I've had friends just get murdered on those things.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So you knew you were going to get out of Chicago.
Marc:You wanted that out.
Marc:And in high school, you knew you were going to do comedy, but you weren't doing comedy in Chicago.
Marc:Yeah, no.
Marc:So you get into ASU, is it?
Marc:Yeah, which is not hard to do.
Marc:No, my brother went there.
Marc:I know people go there.
Marc:And what was the plan?
Guest:I met a bunch of Southern California guys.
Guest:That school is filled with kids from California.
Guest:But what were you going to major in?
Marc:Like just communication?
Marc:I did journalism.
Marc:Oh, journalism.
Guest:Yeah, English was my minor.
Guest:How'd that all pan out?
Guest:Did you graduate?
Guest:I graduated summa cum laude, my friend, in four years.
Marc:Well, you know what it is, and I noticed this when I watch your stand-up, is sort of like with journalism, not so easy.
Marc:With English, you can charm your way through it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You can definitely charm your way into honors.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I truly did.
Guest:You just kind of like, you meander, you shoulder your way through smoothly.
Guest:You're like, I'm here, right?
Guest:And they're like, you are, you're fine.
Guest:Manage your electives properly.
Guest:Yes, correct.
Guest:You can mail them, you know what I mean?
Guest:Stay away from the language one.
Guest:Easy, no Spanish, fuck that.
Guest:Second language, no way.
Guest:I tested out.
Guest:So did I. Yeah, I didn't want to do it.
Guest:I was like, I'm not doing that shit.
Guest:Are you out of your mind?
Guest:Where's the dum-dum test?
Guest:Yeah, I can't.
Guest:I'm not proficient.
Guest:But then I learned that I knew in college I wanted to do it.
Guest:And at the time, Tempe Improv was the only one that was around.
Guest:Comedy-wise, I would do a couple of Mikey things, but they were atrocious.
Guest:And I used to sneak into the Tempe Improv because I knew a girl that worked in the booth that I kind of hooked up with.
Guest:I'd go see guys.
Guest:I saw Mitch right before he died.
Guest:Was he working with me?
Marc:No.
Marc:I co-headlined with Mitch there.
Guest:He did Tempe probably a couple months before he died.
Guest:No, this would have been before that.
Guest:No, yeah, it was- Oh, so he didn't look good.
Guest:It was terrible, man.
Guest:It was actually the worst.
Guest:I remember walking back to my dorm and being like, oh, that didn't make any sense.
Guest:I didn't feel like the guy that I liked.
Guest:He was so strung out, he looked weird.
Guest:Yeah, looked unusual.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:There just something was off.
Guest:yeah and you couldn't put your finger on it really you're like oh what interesting yeah but i got to see a lot of people there and i started to try a little bit and then a friend of mine had said my friend colin had said hey if you don't come with me to california if you go back to chicago when we're done you're never gonna fucking move that room so the so the tempe you did open mics in college no no because that room was weird and hard no i never did the improv right but it's a big weird room that room
Guest:Yeah, it sucked.
Guest:For a comic now, looking back- I really feel like it did suck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's still there, right?
Guest:It is.
Guest:I've never played it.
Guest:But I learned quickly that if my friends were like, if you don't move with us to Southern California to get to Los Angeles, you're going to go back to Chicago and get some bullshit job and you're not really going to go for it.
Guest:So the influence of my friends was truly why I moved to Los Angeles.
Marc:Well, it's interesting because there actually was a vital comedy scene in Chicago.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like Chicago is, in terms of the modern show business landscape of comedy, is like the premier city.
Guest:It's not stand-up driven, but there's definitely plenty of comedy there.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, the second city drove that place as far as comedy goes.
Guest:But I knew...
Guest:That if I went back to Chicago, I would have too many of my old conveniences there of being close to family and getting lazy.
Guest:And I thought, well, if I'm going to drown, I want to drown in the ocean.
Guest:It's wild, man.
Marc:Because coming out here without anything.
Marc:No money, no connections.
Marc:It's the shittiest feeling in the world.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Because you're just stranded.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And you're like in Culver City or wherever.
Marc:And you're like, how do I get from here?
Guest:I was in Culver City.
Guest:You were?
Guest:That's literally where I moved.
Yeah.
Guest:I swear to God.
Guest:National on the freeway.
Guest:That's where I moved.
Guest:That's where I was.
Guest:National on Overland.
Guest:I was on National Boulevard by the fucking 10.
Marc:I was on Overland right off the freeway.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:National on the 10.
Guest:In an apartment.
Guest:Guess where I lived?
Guest:In a partitioned off dining room.
Guest:The dining room got turned into a bedroom for me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the two other guys slept in a bedroom and we shared three guys, one bathroom.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you're just sitting there going like, how do I get from here to that billboard?
Guest:Impossible.
Marc:No, no way to know.
Marc:Yeah, you just thought... And they were all happening in... You drive around looking like it's probably going on in there.
Marc:Look at that studio building.
Marc:That's where it happened.
Guest:Making a movie right now.
Guest:Sharon Stone is in there right now.
Guest:Yeah, doing it.
Guest:Yeah, that's what I felt.
Guest:I felt this like... But also, I learned quickly how to meander my way into the comedy scene because I learned that it was like, oh, you just show up, hang out, be kind of cool...
Guest:and work hard, you'll start getting more spots.
Guest:But you were a fan, so it's interesting.
Marc:Who told that story?
Marc:I think it was Rick Kearns tells a story about doing a meeting.
Guest:He didn't have a car, but he got this big meeting at CBS or somewhere, and he goes in and takes the bus.
Guest:The bus to CBS.
Guest:Yeah, he does the meeting, and then he's sitting at the bus stop, and the executives that he just met with drive out, and they see him at the bus.
Guest:Good to meet you, Rick.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:It's coming in 15.
Guest:I'll be out of here soon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that's what this business is.
Guest:You're trying to get the attention of multi-multi-millionaires so you can get a little bit of the pot.
Marc:Or their lackeys.
Guest:Or the lackeys thereof.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you just want to get a little bit of peace.
Guest:Just give me a little peace.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:fucking worst all right so but when do you do your first spots how do you what do you put together well like open mic at the comedy store i used to go to the sunday and monday oh the mondays put my name in the bucket and then through there i met brooks whelan and fahim anwar were two of my closest yeah friends and those guys all would we would all tell each other about hey there's a i heard there's a mic in culver city used to be a one by that park and there's a coffee shop and then we'd all kind of keep sharing and that's how i learned where mics were
Guest:There wasn't like a database of mics.
Guest:You just had to like slowly learn.
Guest:It was like a circuit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was like, oh, you can go here and here and here on Wednesday.
Guest:And I have a calendar still in a bin that showed every night that I was doing where and I would write down all these mics and like on these nights I had to make this mic by this time so I could get to this one, this one.
Guest:And I just, that was the thing.
Marc:See, that wasn't the thing when I was younger, when I was starting out.
Marc:So you'd had to go from the coffee shop to the bookstore to the laundromat.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And I would do it every fucking night.
Guest:I'd work my day job all day.
Guest:And then at night I was a PA.
Marc:And then Monday nights at the store.
Marc:I remember when I was a doorman at the store back in the eighties, it's just like that line out in front of the store on Mondays.
Marc:Gross.
Marc:Some guy wearing a garbage bag.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Another guy in a chef's hat.
Guest:Some guy has a bird on his shoulder.
Guest:It's like, what's happening?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a nightmare.
Guest:I fucking hated it.
Yeah.
Guest:And I went one time to- And Don Bear's going, how's everybody doing?
Guest:Right, mocking your existence.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then I went to Mike's, slowly but surely, and then started getting booked on produced shows, and then grew from there and there and there.
Guest:So that's it.
Guest:So no club affiliation until you'd already put a few years in.
Guest:I went to the store.
Guest:I did open Mike's at the store.
Guest:But in 2007, the store was pretty low-key.
Guest:There wasn't much going on.
Guest:Yeah, I remember.
Guest:And then I would come back a little bit later.
Guest:Tommy would eventually, who was the old booker there, would eventually start to really like me because I showed up very prepared.
Guest:I would do my set and I would fuck off.
Guest:I didn't hang out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he said it to me because people who don't know, people hang out at the store too much.
Guest:Do they?
Guest:A lot of guys, when I was coming up, they would hang over there.
Guest:They would hang out too much.
Guest:You're like, you're there every night, all night.
Guest:And usually they're getting drunk.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, for me, as a grown-up, when I went back to the store years later, after whatever happened to me in the 80s or 90s, I don't know what happens to that place after 1030.
Guest:I'm gone.
Guest:That's the problem, is young comics, I think, committed too much of their time to not going and doing other sets.
Guest:I would show up, and I'm not saying my way is the right way, but Tommy liked it that it was like, you get up, you go on, you leave.
Guest:And I was like, yeah, because I go do my best shit, show off for you, and I go home because I just wanted to get past.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I hung out a little bit, but I probably had some other bullshit set to go to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So because of that, the culture that got created started to, it became apparent that, you know, I could do the OR and then subsequently got passed in maybe 2010.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Maybe that was it.
Marc:Right before he left?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Literally right before he left.
Marc:Dude, I didn't get my name on the wall until 2000 and like...
Guest:three or four because when duncan was booking it he was like how is your name not up there and they're actively trying to take it off by the way i'm on a committee of trying to take your name off the wall no we want it down we want it down i worked so hard but on my birthday i got i got passed at the improv which was a big deal at the same time i got passed at the store and then i put in a lot of time the store but i also started to go over to like meltdown or yeah you know uh i felt like i had to do all that shit too when i got back here
Guest:Yeah, you do kind of have to start all over again, per se, in a weird way.
Guest:You just kind of tag around.
Guest:But because of your cultural influence and the people that your peers, you have probably an easier time showing up to these places than when I go to the Virgil.
Guest:It was always a little bit like he's a comedy store guy.
Guest:Or like, like I've never been booked at the Largo.
Guest:I've never played Largo.
Guest:I've never stepped foot in the Largo.
Guest:I get it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, like, but I always, but the weird thing is for me, there's part of me that's sort of like, I'm really not this.
Guest:But you are.
Marc:But I am.
Guest:I am.
Guest:I'm very much it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what I mean.
Marc:You are, but you're, you don't, you're trying to come from it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it, but it's a part of your culture.
Marc:Well, I just it's like it's a better audience for me sometimes in a way.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But also it tempers me because, you know, I came up in the dark, shitty, dirty world and I can be a dark, shitty, dirty person.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But there it's sort of like, don't be so dark and shitty here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They want way more fluff.
Guest:It's not fluff.
Marc:It's it's it's.
Marc:They want more highbrow.
Marc:It's not fluff.
Marc:I think they want a little bit more.
Marc:Dude, the people that would kill the hardest in alt rooms are club comics because they don't know it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Those audiences didn't come up in the club world.
Marc:And the guys who work real clubs, they know how to do it.
Marc:So these guys would come in with their fucking straight up club act.
Marc:And the alt rooms would be like, oh, my God.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they'd all of a sudden see what real comedy is.
Marc:And then someone would get up there and talk about his pants for 20 minutes.
Guest:And for me, it was hard following those guys.
Guest:Well, it's impossible.
Guest:It's impossible.
Guest:You have to bring real shit.
Guest:But unless when you're a famous comic club comic and you go to the alt rooms, it's easier when you're a comic who is kind of known as a club guy.
Guest:They do have a tendency to kind of want to shut you out a little bit.
Marc:No, no, I get what you're saying.
Guest:Which is fine.
Marc:I mean, I was always able to do both worlds, and I had equal resentment for both worlds for different reasons.
Marc:That's why it worked so well.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:They hated you everywhere.
Marc:Yeah, or I hated them more.
Marc:It was more like it.
That's what it was.
Guest:You had the hatred.
Guest:But the acting.
Guest:That was around the exact same time.
Guest:Around 2010 when I got passed, I landed a job that got me out of my day job.
Guest:And it was a hosting gig on MSN to just do like a comedic take on what's going on in the news today.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And I got a contract to do it for one calendar year.
Guest:And I literally called my mom and I was like, I can quit my fucking job.
Guest:Got insurance.
Guest:Yeah, like I finally could quit my job.
Guest:Which was what?
Guest:I was working a day job as a PA.
Guest:Well, I was a PA for a movie studio.
Guest:And then after that, I was working in the music industry, booking international tours for people like we did Cypress Hill, Macy Gray.
Guest:We were getting them visas.
Marc:You were the booking?
Marc:Oh, you were just working for somebody.
Guest:We were working with their tour managers to get them visas and travel arrangements and all that stuff.
Guest:I was a gopher.
Guest:I would just, whatever they needed, I did all of it.
Marc:I did PA work.
Marc:I did PA work.
Marc:It's one of the reasons I became a doorman at the comedy store.
Marc:It's because I got this random PA job for something Mitzi was producing, some garbage.
Marc:What was it?
Marc:Do you know?
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:What was it?
Marc:There was a period there in like, I guess it was like 87, maybe, where she was trying to do a comedy channel and shooting all these sketches with all her fucking weirdos.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was it was across the street where before House of Blues, there used to be a house there that she'd made into a restaurant called Barrymore's.
Marc:It was one it was like one of the Barrymore family's old Hollywood homes.
Marc:And she had production offices over there.
Marc:So, you know, right where they built that new building.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I got the PA gig through somebody else.
Marc:And she was fucking Danny Stone at the time.
Marc:And there was all the, like, Karen Haber, Charlie Barnett, Danny Stone, Joey Kamen, all the people that you don't know.
Marc:No idea who those are.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But they were shooting these sketches.
Marc:And I just remember getting the job as a PA and going up to her and go, Mitzi, you remember me?
Marc:I auditioned for you.
Marc:Like six weeks ago.
Marc:And she's like, oh, yeah, you're more funny.
Marc:Go tell Becker you want to be a doorman.
Marc:And that's how I got the doorman.
Marc:No shit.
Marc:Is I reminded her.
Marc:She didn't remember you, though.
Marc:Of course she did.
Marc:She did.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She wasn't going to let me fucking work.
Marc:She wasn't that way.
Marc:Just to let anybody.
Marc:No.
Guest:See, it's funny because I've heard so many different versions of her over the years from different people.
Guest:Well, at that time she wasn't losing it yet.
Guest:She was still all together.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But even when she was all together, she was extremely PC mentally, right?
Guest:I've heard that she was just, she was all over the place.
Guest:She was trying to do 50 things at once.
Marc:I guess, you know, but I do not think that if she really had, if I didn't hit a note, she would not have just told me to go get a doorman job.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:I guess that's true.
Marc:Dude, it was such a weird, different world.
Marc:And then I had to answer phones.
Marc:I had to work the door.
Marc:I had to drive the Jeep.
Marc:I had to get her chicken salad.
Marc:I did not fuck her.
Guest:That should be the name of your book.
Guest:I did not.
Guest:I did not fuck Mitzi.
Guest:I did not fuck Mitzi.
Guest:So much of that world seems pretty tragic to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was a rolling tragedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When did that cease?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You were there.
Marc:I mean, I left.
Marc:I lost my mind on coke and I was gone by by 88.
Marc:Good God.
Marc:And then I ran home to Albuquerque, cleaned up, went back to Boston and got back on, started doing comedy again.
Marc:I was all I want to do is do comedy.
Marc:But then I really kind of reloaded back here full on 2006, 2007.
Marc:It's been in and out.
Marc:Will you spend the rest of your life here, you think?
Marc:I don't know, dude.
Marc:I don't know what you think in terms of like I sometimes fantasize about going where I grew up.
Marc:I can get a house in New Mexico.
Marc:People do that.
Marc:Industry's there.
Marc:I could rent it out, all this stuff.
Marc:But like, do you really want it?
Marc:What do you think you're going to find?
Marc:You think, what, are you going to go back to high school?
Guest:Right.
Right.
Marc:Go back to work at your high school.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm going to go work at the, maybe the restaurant I worked at in high school.
Marc:No, it's gone.
Marc:The house I used to live in was leveled.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, that's tragic to me.
Marc:Well, they built another house there that looked kind of like the one I lived in.
Marc:The area is the same.
Guest:Not the very first house, but I don't know what you do.
Guest:I have dreams about going back to Chicago though, because I love Chicago so much.
Guest:The city is so rich.
Guest:It's just like, there's so much life there.
Guest:Even if it's not anything like it was when I was a kid, it just, it's still so rich.
Marc:I mean, it's just so- It does feel like you can't take the Chicago out of Chicago.
Marc:Like New York,
Marc:They've moved everybody out.
Guest:But did New York ever really have a singular identity?
Guest:It's a bunch of different identities all over the city.
Marc:Not really.
Marc:It kind of did have a singular identity.
Marc:When you were there?
Marc:Well, no.
Marc:I mean, there's uptown, there's rich people, whatever.
Marc:But it's a grid, and each neighborhood represented something.
Marc:But there was a working class in New York that lived in Manhattan that can't live there anymore.
Marc:So now like they're all moved out.
Marc:You don't even know who owns the buildings.
Marc:It's all kind of been turned out for, you know, mollified and whatnot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's my thing is like, I think that's Chicago just still has this.
Guest:We're all here thing.
Guest:We haven't get Chicago never got taken over by something.
Guest:I mean, there has been a high influx of a lot of money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, there's a lot of new money and a lot of very expensive parts of Chicago now, but it still has that thing that it's still a working class blue collar city.
Marc:Yeah, I feel that.
Marc:So you got that one gig.
Guest:I got that one gig and I got to quit my job and that helped me do comedy.
Guest:Oh yeah, we got the PA jobs.
Guest:Somewhat full time, I guess you could say.
Marc:But did you at some point decide you wanted to be an actor more than a comic or...
Guest:I always had it in me.
Guest:I did a couple of plays in college.
Guest:I always really kind of wanted to, but I was so scared to admit it.
Guest:Because I was like, comedy is something I can actually take on and not give a shit if I fail because I know it's this grind.
Guest:Because I was a student of it.
Guest:I was like, I know what it's going to take.
Guest:You just have to bust ass all the time.
Guest:With acting, I was like, I'm not that good looking.
Guest:I don't have any formal training.
Guest:So it was daunting to even think about it.
Guest:But I would tell my manager at the time, throw me out for some shit if they want a goofy looking redheaded guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then slowly but surely, I learned that I was good at it.
Guest:I just was like, oh, I'm pretty good at this.
Guest:I could access emotions better than some of my peers.
Guest:Then I started landing shit.
Guest:And then truly, I've said it before, but Allison Jones, casting director, kind of really found me, so to speak.
Guest:Her and Wendy O'Brien were both like, you're good.
Guest:You should really commit.
Guest:And I started to learn that I was like, okay, maybe I should really try to go for shit.
Guest:And from there, you know, that's a whole other game.
Guest:Well, she put me in The Office, which was fucking huge.
Guest:Oh, you were on The Office?
Guest:I just did one little episode of The Office.
Guest:And after that, it was kind of like, what else can I find for you that you can show off?
Guest:Yeah, what else were you?
Guest:I did an episode of Rest of Development.
Guest:Honestly, I'd have to look it up.
Guest:I know this sounds really sad, but I just don't.
Guest:Your IMDb?
Guest:Well, it doesn't matter.
Guest:But the biggest thing you did was I'm Dying Up Here?
Guest:I'm Dying Up Here was, I mean, I booked a pilot.
Guest:I did a show called Mixology in 2000.
Guest:I kind of remember that.
Guest:It was an ABC show.
Guest:That was kind of like the first thing I ever landed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I did, you know, yeah, The Office, Arrested Development, Children's Hospital.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Then I did The League.
Guest:You know, then I did that mixology show.
Guest:But before that, the first thing I ever landed, the first thing I ever did, I did Punk'd for MTV.
Guest:I did, like, one of the remakes of Punk'd.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:You hosted it or just one of the- No, I was one of the pranksters.
Guest:One of the assholes.
Guest:One of the assholes on there.
Guest:Yeah, I did that thing, and I helped write some of the bits.
Guest:It was huge for me looking back.
Marc:I'm glad I did it.
Marc:But when did you, like, were you like a Rogan guy?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, I guess people do associate my name with him now because he had me on his show and it helped me kind of gain some resonance in the podcast.
Marc:But you weren't a regular guy?
Marc:You toured with him?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Once in a while he'll let me go out and do some shows if he's like, do you want to come open for me somewhere?
Guest:And I will.
Guest:I'll go wherever he wants to go.
Guest:Is it just you?
Guest:It's me, Ali Makovsky, Ian Edwards, Tony.
Guest:He has a few guys go before him, right?
Guest:He's got a big clique of people that he'll take out once in a while.
Marc:But does he take out more than one at a time, I'm saying?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, there's always somebody that opens the show and then a middle act.
Guest:Or there'll be two middles and we just split time.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Edwards would do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, Ian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And we'll just split time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um, but Joe, Joe started to know who I was around the comedy store six years ago, something like that.
Guest:And then just liked my standup.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then was like, how come you don't have a podcast?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's like, well, come do mine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I got to do his and then I started to do other people's podcasts and then I learned that I enjoyed it and I was okay at it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But Joe, I would never say like I'm associated with him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I was never like a, one of his, you don't, you didn't move to Austin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm there.
Guest:Mentally, I'm there.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I had no fucking... When he joked about that, he was like, would you ever think about moving out here?
Guest:I was like, are you out of your fucking mind?
Guest:I just bought a house two years ago.
Guest:I just finally got to a place when I could settle down here.
Guest:But no, that's not... I'm not... You're your own guy.
Guest:I am my own.
Guest:Unfortunately, like we said before, I think I'm so much of my own guy.
Guest:Sometimes it hurts me a little bit.
Guest:I think it'd be helpful to be a part of a group, but I'm not.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:I'm no good at it.
Marc:I'm no good at it.
Marc:Yeah, it's tough.
Marc:Because as soon as I'm part of a group, I'm sort of like, who the fuck are these guys?
Guest:Yeah, I don't like these fucking guys.
Guest:These guys are annoying.
Guest:I'd rather be alone.
Guest:I really do do my own thing a lot.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:A lot, which is a benefit.
Marc:I can work in an ensemble.
Marc:I can work with people, like acting or anything else.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But in terms of sort of like, hey, me and the boys are going, nah, I'm not...
Marc:I'm not one of the boys.
Guest:I just don't agree with enough people enough to just get involved.
Guest:And I just want to, I want to poke my head into things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that sounds fun.
Guest:I'll do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But otherwise I'm going to keep doing whatever else I'm doing.
Marc:For me, it's like, there's always the guy.
Marc:It's like, that's the guy.
Marc:He's like, come on guys.
Marc:And he's going to, the guys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now he, there's the one guy that's the, he talks and holds the guys together.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The guy I am, I'm the one where they go like, who the fuck is that guy?
Marc:Yeah, that's me.
Guest:That's Mark.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, don't worry about him.
Guest:Where are we going?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why has he got to come with us?
Guest:He's not coming with us.
Guest:Mark, we have too many people in the car, man.
Guest:Good, good, good.
Marc:That's your response.
Guest:Good.
Marc:No, my response used to be like, I'll just follow you guys.
Marc:I'll follow you in my car.
Guest:Yeah, that's sad.
Guest:They ditch you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did they tell you they're going to Mel's Diner?
Guest:They're really going to Swingers?
Guest:Yeah, it's just like your dad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm waiting outside of fucking Mel's just tapping my toes with my baseball.
Guest:We're my friends.
Guest:My baseball mitt.
Guest:Yeah, I was that guy until I got hard, man.
Guest:I hardened up.
Guest:What hardened you up the most?
Marc:What turned you sour?
Marc:Well, I don't know what turned me sour.
Marc:I think when my first real girlfriend left me and then years later when the second wife left me.
Marc:But comedically, it's just pretend.
Marc:You just pretend like it doesn't hurt you until one day it doesn't.
Guest:See, because the way I know you is we know each other just as comedians.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We've never spent a lot of time together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's a perception that people have of you.
Guest:It's wrong.
Guest:Yeah, it's interesting.
Guest:I've learned that over the years that you're not that guy.
Guest:Because when we speak at the store, it's always very nice and cordial and wonderful.
Guest:But there is a perception that you're this hardened person.
Marc:ex-comic criminal this like vibe of like yeah I do I'm they have this there's this fantasy with weird well I think you probably aided in some of it over the years and a lot of it was created by everyone else well I think really what it is is like I was just I was just angry I was usually thinking about myself I wasn't carrying some sort of attitude as much as I was just bitter and weird inside yourself yeah you know and then people project onto that
Marc:But as time went on, people who know me, I'm a fucking marshmallow, really.
Guest:Well, here's something that you did that I want to point out.
Guest:To you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was very funny because there was like a submit to be considered to be in the Emmys.
Guest:and you had submitted my name was on like a list, and you had come up to me at the store.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And you had said, hey, I submitted for you for that thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:First of all, I didn't deserve it, but I was like, that's really nice of you.
Guest:And you were very much like, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it was good.
Guest:And then you kind of fucked off.
Guest:And I think I wrote you an email or a text message.
Guest:I don't even know how I try to communicate with you.
Guest:And I put like a heartfelt sappy thing because I have that inside of me.
Guest:And I think all you wrote back was, you got it or something like that.
Guest:It was very much like, this is the end.
Guest:We're not talking about this emotional thing anymore.
Marc:But see, the weird thing about that is, I just literally don't have the focus of,
Marc:To really dig into a text.
Marc:I get that.
Marc:I get that.
Marc:So when I go, people think I'm being curt and I'm not.
Marc:There's a lot going on.
Marc:It's just like, how much, what do I got to write here?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, some people involve themselves in the emotion of communication and you're very literal.
Guest:You're like, well, this is kind of.
Guest:Well, with email and text, I've lost my ability to do that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:See, I've learned that I have to do it more because I've had people tell me that hurt my feelings that you didn't.
Guest:I'm like, shit, I didn't know.
Marc:Well, maybe I should learn that lesson.
Marc:No, because I put a lot of work into like I do a weekly email blast for the podcast.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I really write the thing.
Marc:And it's in.
Marc:And I and also I'm constantly, you know, just bleeding on my podcast and stuff.
Marc:So I put all that emotion out in the world.
Marc:So when it comes to responding to a text, I'm like, I don't know.
Guest:What do you want me to do?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:Trust me, I understand it.
Guest:Well, because we've disconnected from an honest face-to-face version of the communication to just saying, I want to receive that same emotion.
Guest:Maybe you should call more.
Guest:Through the letters.
Guest:I do call people a lot more now.
Guest:The pandemic made me start calling people.
Guest:Fahim Anwar and I have, like I said, he's my oldest friend.
Guest:I've known him since we literally both moved here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Only in the past couple of years have we really started to call each other and speak on an almost daily basis.
Guest:Because we fucking love chatting.
Guest:Those are the days when we were younger, we would get some great conversation out, some really deep shit sometimes, or just talk shit and have a laugh.
Guest:And that went away.
Guest:Everyone gets busy, and then you just stop doing it.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The other thing with me is I think I'm just a little preoccupied and impolite.
Marc:I'm not an asshole.
Marc:No.
Marc:But I mean, those two things can equate that.
Marc:You know, like if I get to the store, I'm sort of like, what's happening?
Marc:Where are we going?
Marc:Who's on?
Marc:Why is this?
Marc:What's going on down here?
Marc:Right.
Guest:You know, and there's people I know for years, but like.
Guest:That's what I learned about you, by the way.
Guest:What?
Guest:was that when you're at the club, you are very much at the club.
Guest:Work-minded Mark is, like, tuned in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're not a, hey, what's going on?
Guest:Fuck that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've learned that, like, when Maren's there, it's like a tractor beam of thoughts that you're executing in front of your own eyeballs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then you're doing it.
Guest:And then when you're done, you will say goodbye or what's up to you.
Guest:Yeah, hang out a minute.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it's when you're there for the show, you're very much not a... Sebastian's the exact same way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People think Sebastian's a little bit...
Guest:Some younger guys are like, you know, he doesn't really talk to him.
Guest:He just is focused as fuck.
Guest:He wants to go do his work and then he wants to leave, which I totally respect.
Guest:When you're young, you don't get it.
Guest:You're like, you don't even look at me, man.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:The generational thing.
Marc:Because there's genuinely people I like seeing.
Marc:I mean, I'll talk to them.
Marc:I'm always happy to see people.
Marc:And I think there are people that know who I am inside and they don't mess with it.
Guest:I just say hi to you and that's it.
Guest:I always go, hey.
Guest:And you're always like, hi.
Guest:That's about his night.
Guest:That's about his.
Guest:The next thought in my head is like, what does that guy even do?
Guest:Who's that guy?
Marc:Who is that son of a bitch?
Marc:Yeah, because I don't know.
Marc:I hear his name.
Marc:It's like, you know, he seems to have his shit together.
Marc:I don't know what he does.
Guest:That's kind of nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I like kind of floating on my own shit.
Marc:Yeah, but now that's over.
Guest:Now it's sort of like, now we got to like lock in.
Guest:No.
Guest:I'm going to see.
Guest:No, we can continue this fantasy as far as we need it to go.
Guest:The best part about being a professional and having your own shit going on
Guest:You can kind of just do your own fucking thing and nobody cares anymore.
Marc:I don't like that people think like I'm because I'm really not what people think I am.
Marc:And I think that most people who listen to the podcast kind of know that now.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But there is there was this old version of me that younger comics or people who know me from comedy used to have.
Marc:And maybe I was an asshole, but I was like I was.
Marc:You know, I was I don't know if it was bitter, but sometimes it comes out of me.
Marc:You know, like like when we off the mics the other day, you know, it's sort of the mics go.
Marc:I was like, fuck that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I used to do that just on stage.
Guest:Right.
Guest:See, that's that's doesn't help.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I used to.
Marc:I didn't know that there was the things you don't say out loud.
Marc:But it's honest, if nothing more.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But I used to pride myself on that.
Marc:But that honesty just makes people afraid of you.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Or think you're an asshole.
Yeah.
Guest:It's more that they just think you're not someone that they need to associate with.
Guest:Or trust.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're just like, oh, that guy, he's not- He'll throw you under the bus, that guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He'll say some shit about you.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you don't want to be that guy.
Guest:So instead, people just say hi, and that's it.
Guest:They just go, hi.
Guest:Don't give him any more.
Guest:Don't rock the boat.
Guest:He'll feed on whatever.
Guest:Don't give him ammunition to fucking light you up for no reason.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that's fine.
Guest:I do think that's okay, because this idea that we're all going to be buddies-
Guest:What job would you walk into that you're going to be friends with all of your coworkers?
Marc:Well, the thing is, is we took the job where we didn't have to do that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And also, like, we're also a bunch of people that really don't fit into other things.
Marc:No, we're selfish and self-centered.
Guest:Yeah, we're just a bunch of monsters.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We're bad people.
Guest:We all just listen to me.
Guest:Yeah, listen to what we're doing now.
Guest:Terrible people.
Marc:Listen to us, please.
Marc:We're terrible people.
Marc:Yeah, we're worthless.
Marc:Just sort of like, you know, have no sense of what it's like to live in the real world.
Marc:No.
Marc:But mock it.
Guest:Right, but shit on it on a daily basis.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You got a secure life?
Guest:Boo.
Guest:How's your 401k, dick?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Mocking the normalcy.
Guest:But that's why I think- You enjoy your family?
Guest:What a puss.
Guest:You sicko.
Guest:You fucking sicko.
Guest:Follow the sheep.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, sheep.
Guest:Fucking sheep.
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm going to sleep in.
What?
Guest:that's it though yeah i don't other than that i'll figure it out i guess i got all the time i want man not you yeah well i heard seth rogan did uh uh howard stern and he had said that about him not having kids and was like i get to sleep in and smoke weed on saturdays you know whatever and there was a piece of me that was like that's very much what comics do of like yeah i don't have to do the rules but there was also a sadness behind it like
Marc:it sounds like you might want a thing to do a little bit i learned a lesson at the store once like when i was like submerged in that place living in crest hill living and breathing and eating at the store you know just fucking coked up and fucked up and some chick i used to have sex with from in college came out to visit me you know and it was like when these she was just hanging out and we were like in a circle like burning furniture at crest hill and doing blow and playing guitar it was like four in the morning and i remember her just like sitting there like what
Marc:going on i'm like yeah man it's like this is life you know this is how we live fuck it you know and it was just and she wrote me this letter like weeks later just you know basically saying like no one wants to live like that yeah i mean it's like you're judging these people like we're not getting up fuck the joggers you know it's like who wants to be you right you guys are acting like this is the way to be and you're monsters vigilante lifestyle is insane
Guest:fucking ridiculous i thought about that because i saw a photo the other day about uh that made that reminded me about how belushi and we regard belushi as like in that generation of those guys like just like yeah oh incredible but the truth was about belushi and farley was that lifestyle was a fucking nightmare like it was a nightmare like they were brilliant guys but we we kind of like got away from them
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, look what ended up happening to Hunter S. Thompson.
Guest:It's like the latter half of that story is fucking sad.
Guest:Wet brain.
Guest:It's not cool to, oh, Chavaz Regal and fucking four eight balls of Coke and Dunhills till five in the morning and then chocolate.
Guest:Did you ever read what he ate?
Guest:And then you actually think about it.
Guest:You're like, that's fucking sad and gross.
Marc:No way you feel good.
Guest:No, your body's a dumpster, and you're just begging to die.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, no.
Guest:It's cool for a moment in time to reflect, especially as a teenager.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When you're a grown-up, you're like, this is bullshit.
Marc:If you're... It depends what kind of grown-up you are.
Guest:That's funny.
Marc:Well, I guess.
Guest:But when I say that, I mean someone who's learned that life is a lot deeper than just these, like...
Marc:cool moments like yeah we get to do coke and burn and also but the culture is different yeah no it's changed there's no premium on that shit anymore it used to be like rock and roll we're doing it you know what i mean we're living on the edge and now it's sort of like kind of sad it's sad people died on the edge yeah yeah a lot of people fell this is insane watch your carbon take right
Guest:Too much pasta, bro.
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:Come on, you're going crazy.
Guest:You're going to die.
Guest:You're nuts, man.
Guest:You got to check your health.
Guest:Good talking to you, man.
Guest:Yes, it was great talking to you, brother.
Guest:I've got to go finish up your yard with those fellas.
Guest:Oh, they're waiting for you?
Guest:Yeah, that's why they stopped.
Guest:Okay, good.
Guest:All right, thanks.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Again, Andrew Santino is a recurring role on the sitcom Dave.
Marc:You can get his podcast, Whiskey, Ginger, or Bad Friends with Bobby Lee, where you get podcasts and you can watch them on YouTube.
Marc:And I don't have any music today.
Marc:I didn't bring a harmonica.
Marc:I have nothing.
Marc:I have nothing.
Marc:I have nothing to share with you musically.
Guest:There's an old cat outside.
Guest:Hey buddy.
Marc:Hey buddy.
Marc:hey buddy let's see if we can get the cat to talk to close this out i'm on the i'm in a garden room and there's a garden out here and there's a cat that lives out here hey come here come here come here what do you got to say great great clothes good for you you coming in my room now you're filthy
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey.
Marc:La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere, right?
Marc:That wasn't even to me.
Marc:Yeah, what was that?