Episode 1224 - Mark Normand
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:Mark Normand is here.
Marc:Comedian.
Marc:He's one of the guys.
Marc:I've interviewed some of his contemporaries.
Marc:He's of the generation of Joe List.
Marc:Sam Murrell.
Marc:He used to open for Schumer.
Marc:He's appeared in all the places comics appear and he has three one hour specials.
Marc:And I was a little reluctant to book him, not because I had anything against him.
Marc:He's a very proficient, very funny.
Marc:He's a good comic.
Marc:Old school, writing the jokes.
Marc:But it was one of those things where I talked to his friends.
Marc:I know his friends and I know he's of he's sort of a part of that triumvirate of morale and list in him.
Marc:He's a New York guy.
Marc:Came up in New York.
Marc:Reminds me of a lot of the guys I came up with.
Marc:He reminds me of a guy who came up in New York.
Marc:But I didn't know if I didn't know who he was.
Marc:I'd watch his stand up and I was wondering, like, is this who he is?
Marc:Is this the how he talks?
Marc:Is this where he's coming from?
Marc:What's in there?
Marc:I just wasn't sure.
Marc:But good joke writer.
Marc:Funny guy.
Marc:Watch the special.
Marc:And I said, all right, it's time.
Marc:It's time to have him on.
Marc:And we had a nice talk and it was good.
Marc:It was a comedy talk.
Marc:It was like the old days back in the day talk.
Marc:So I made it back from Florida and it was it was a bit harrowing, but a bit relaxing.
Marc:First trip out.
Marc:I got to be honest with you, man.
Marc:I, you know, since I was vaccinated.
Marc:Thank God.
Marc:Get vaccinated.
Marc:Get peace of mind.
Marc:But I took I took a plane.
Marc:I was in cars.
Marc:I was around people.
Marc:I was eating inside restaurants and I was down in Florida and I was surprised, man.
Marc:I mean.
Marc:For the rap that Florida gets, almost everybody indoors, for the most part, that I could tell was following the rules, still wearing their masks.
Marc:I mean, it is a clusterfuck of humanity for both better and worse.
Marc:But most people were following the rules.
Marc:It's weird, man.
Marc:I'm starting to just... I'll tell you, the mask thing.
Marc:What I've learned over this last year is that...
Marc:If you just see people's eyes, they usually 99% of the time look terrified or pissed off.
Marc:That's what eyes look like.
Marc:If the windows of the soul are the eyes looking in, most of them pissed off and terrified, which is probably true.
Marc:But my point is in civilization, in day-to-day life, you need the other half of the face to balance out the terror and the anger so people can kind of move through the world without other people getting nervous.
Marc:The mass thing was all part of a necessity, but it was a kind of ongoing trauma in a way.
Marc:We were all living in this PTSD of pandemic and plague and necessity.
Marc:But I've grown to believe that you got to see the whole face to get the balance.
Marc:You know, most people are terrified or angry, but if you got a smile or smirk or just something to do, some dimples or just the rest of your face to balance out the terror in the eyes, it's a subtle mechanism.
Marc:All of that working together, all of that working in concert with each other, the eyes, the mouth, the nose, the expression, the full range of it, just the windows of the soul looking in, a lot of fear, a lot of anger.
Marc:Makes sense.
Marc:Some sadness.
Marc:Get the mouth going and the nose in there.
Marc:And you're like, well, that guy's all right.
Marc:He's all right.
Marc:Just the eyes.
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:Is he all right?
Marc:Are you OK?
Marc:Rest of the face.
Marc:Hey, he's going to be all right.
Marc:That guy's all right.
Marc:So, yeah, man, something shifted.
Marc:Something has shifted.
Marc:God knows the last year has shifted everybody.
Marc:You know, we've all had our trials and trips and horrors and obstacles.
Marc:And, you know, just seeing my brother and his new girlfriend and seeing my nephew, you know, for dinner, we all went out to dinner.
Marc:That was funny.
Marc:We're the same, man.
Marc:Same mother, same fucking monsters.
Marc:Just the goddamn food issues.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:They never stop.
Marc:And there's just this element, the Marin dynamic, I call it, where it's just whoever we're with is going to be dragged into it.
Marc:Poor John's emaciated.
Marc:My mother just crumples people into eating disorders.
Marc:I love her, though.
Marc:I'm not trying to be negative.
Marc:But the funny moment was like we were at this fish place and we were with his girlfriend, Julia, and her kid and my nephew, Shy, and my brother.
Marc:And I afterwards was like, I just saw him walk by with some Tres Leches cake.
Marc:I wasn't sure it was Tres Leches cake, but I have a pretty good sense of what that looks like and what it is.
Marc:And they had it.
Marc:I don't know why they had it.
Marc:Coconut Tres Leches cake.
Marc:But I was like, fuck it.
Marc:I'm getting that.
Marc:Then my brother's like, they make their own ice cream here.
Marc:And he looks at his girlfriend.
Marc:He says, I've had that.
Marc:We've had that, right?
Marc:And she's like, yes, we've had it.
Marc:And then he asks, what did I say when I got it?
Marc:What did I say?
Marc:And I think he was looking to find out whether or not he liked it or he thought it was good.
Marc:But I said, probably what you said is, why the fuck did I eat this?
Marc:Why did we get this?
Marc:And she laughed.
Marc:And that made me realize Marin dynamic in effect.
Marc:The slow drain of the...
Marc:eating disordered male on anyone who's around him.
Marc:Ah, why, why, why?
Marc:So we sat there and we ate the Tres Leches cake and the ice cream, and we lost her dog for a while.
Marc:That was nuts.
Marc:Man, I don't want to...
Marc:You know, they haven't been together that long and they haven't lived in this neighborhood that long.
Marc:We took that dog out for a walk when I got there when she was still at work and that dog got away from us, man.
Marc:And we were both wandering around this weird neighborhood, which is one of these kind of like invented small town kind of developments where there's about five or six different small towny looking homes and
Marc:choice of row house or apartments and they have a little manufactured downtown area and everything's grassy and it's built around a golf course and this fucking dog took off and I had just gotten there and I don't really know her that well I know my brother I don't know how well he knows this dog but this this dog was gone man
Marc:And we're wandering around yelling for this dog, Riley, Riley.
Marc:I don't even know Riley, but I'm starting to think like, man, if they don't find this dog and we get back to the house and she comes home, I might have to cut out because I don't want to be around for whatever's going to happen to this relationship or this situation or this evening.
Marc:I just I might have to leave.
Marc:Is that wrong of me?
Marc:Good luck with the dog.
Marc:Sorry, I got to go.
Marc:I just don't know how to handle that.
Marc:I wouldn't have done that.
Marc:So we're wandering around yelling for this dog.
Marc:And then I see his girlfriend walking towards me, you know, from about a block or two away.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't know, man.
Marc:The dogs, it's out.
Marc:I don't know what happened.
Marc:And she walks up to me.
Marc:She goes, the dog's at the house.
Marc:And I'm like, it is?
Marc:Oh, thank God.
Marc:Where's Craig?
Marc:She's like, I don't know.
Marc:Well, he's around.
Marc:And she's like, the dog made it home, but I'm not sure he can.
Marc:And I'm like, you're probably right.
Marc:I can text him.
Marc:He could probably use the GPS.
Marc:But he eventually found his way home.
Marc:We just let him get there on his own.
Marc:Dog made it, though.
Marc:That was very impressive.
Marc:Save the evening.
Marc:I didn't know if any of us could have handled the dog.
Marc:Yeah, he got me all nervous about alligators in the golf course pond and eating dogs.
Marc:It was harrowing.
Marc:But ultimately, I guess what I have to say is I got along better with my mother's boyfriend than I ever had.
Marc:And I think I understood him on a deeper level.
Marc:You know, pain is a weird thing.
Marc:Grief is a weird thing.
Marc:And I was sort of like, why does this guy act like he does?
Marc:And I realized, like, well, we both what do we share?
Marc:How is this different than the last time?
Marc:that I saw this guy and, you know, I, you know, I'm a changed man because of heartbreak and grief.
Marc:And I realized that he is that as well.
Marc:And maybe that's at the core of it.
Marc:Maybe there was an understanding there that I didn't quite, uh, wasn't quite able to access before, but anyways, they're alive.
Marc:We're all right.
Marc:And, uh, I'm grateful and fat.
Marc:I don't like cheesecake.
Marc:I don't, but I ate it, and it was good.
Marc:I ate some.
Marc:And tres leches cake.
Marc:Did I mention that?
Marc:Why the fuck did I eat this?
Marc:Seriously, why?
Marc:Why the fuck did I eat this?
Marc:I will be on The Tonight Show tonight, Thursday, May 6th, if all goes well.
Marc:I will be doing my first stand-up spots in over a year on Friday and Saturday in the original room at the Comedy Store.
Marc:And right now, I will be talking to Mark Normand.
Marc:His recent comedy special, Out to Lunch, can be seen on YouTube or at marknormandcomedy.com.
Marc:He also co-hosts the podcast, Tuesday with Stories, along with Joe List.
Marc:All right?
Marc:We finally did it.
Marc:Here's me talking to Mark Normand.
Marc:What's that social for?
Marc:Are you going to post me up on... I'll put you on stories and all that.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:You do the whole thing?
Guest:I do it now.
Guest:People make fun of me.
Guest:I'm 37.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:Why do they make fun of you?
Marc:It's like what we do, isn't it?
Guest:I know, but I thought you got into this to write jokes and be funny and cut up on a late night show, and now all of a sudden I'm documenting my life and everything's content.
Guest:You see a guy dead in the street, you're like, hey, this is something.
Guest:Selfie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It's a nightmare, but it's part of it.
Guest:It's like an IV drip.
Guest:You got to keep it coming.
Marc:I guess that's true because I do it, but I don't know if I'm doing it to sell or to maintain the brand.
Marc:I think I'm doing it because I'm compulsive and I need to be witnessed and not feel alone in the world.
Guest:Yeah, but in 1999, you didn't need it.
Guest:No, you didn't need anything, but was I happy?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was I feeling validated on a daily basis?
Marc:Well, now you're successful, though.
Marc:That's different.
Marc:I guess, yeah.
Marc:I mean, I started doing those Instagram Lives just because I wasn't doing stand-up.
Marc:So I needed to feel like I was engaging in something.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm over here by myself, and it's sort of like, am I even funny?
Marc:Is that still working?
Marc:Do I still have that muscle?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:But you have this giant exposure every week.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's what I'm saying.
Marc:It's not really about exposure.
Marc:It's about me not losing my sanity or disappearing into myself.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Well, that's how we are.
Guest:We want people's approval and validation, but we don't want to talk to you.
Marc:I think I want people's approval just to go like, nah, you're wrong.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, you don't know.
Guest:Yeah, we all read the reviews.
Guest:We still hate them, but we read them.
Marc:I like a review where you're sort of like, if it's a little bad but smart, I'll take it.
Marc:Yeah, that's constructive.
Marc:Don't you ever read reviews and be like, oh, that makes sense?
Guest:I read every comment.
Guest:You do?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I can't do that.
Guest:It's a nightmare, but you get some good info out of it.
Marc:Do you get pushback?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Because I watched a special.
Guest:Wow, thanks.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That means a lot.
Marc:Yeah, it was good.
Marc:But you write a line with things and you do it on purpose.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because it's sort of like you're kind of doing a sort of stealth equal opportunity offender thing.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You're not making a meal out of it.
Marc:Like, hey, I fucking piss off everybody.
Guest:No, I don't want to be that guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it's like it's the subtext is it's sort of like, oh, he's getting everybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I don't I went to public school.
Guest:That's kind of how it was.
Guest:Everybody got a hit.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I feel like it was better.
Guest:This whole kid gloves, eggshells is kind of condescending.
Guest:I feel like.
Marc:I think there is definitely a limit to it.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:And I think that there are things that seem to hurt a lot of people that are unnecessary.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But then there's always that part, especially if you're a comic, where you're sort of like, come on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like, oh, I'm the only guy who's having dark, weird, fucked up thoughts.
Guest:Come on.
Marc:Well, that's the other thing.
Marc:There was one joke in there.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:What was it about?
Marc:Oh, like you don't always say what you're thinking.
Guest:Yeah, you can't.
Marc:You get shot.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But everybody kind of has that inner dialogue going.
Marc:But that's the whole, the idea about that, because I think about that too.
Marc:It's sort of like, man, we got to have the freedom to say whatever we want.
Marc:But the thing is, is that there is this basic premise that in order to maintain civilization-
Marc:We have to behave a certain way.
Guest:Yes, completely.
Guest:That's why whenever a celebrity gets drunk or gets honest, it's so engaging.
Guest:It's so enticing and intriguing.
Marc:Like, yeah, that guy's really a fucking animal.
Marc:He's a monster.
Guest:But I am too, but he let it out and I got to see it.
Marc:Yeah, and I can keep mine in because I saw what happened to that guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, life's kind of like a reality show.
Guest:And when you get in trouble, it's like, all right, they got eliminated.
Guest:I'm still going.
Yeah.
Marc:I'd like to be out of the game entirely.
Marc:Not the game of life.
Marc:It'd be nice.
Marc:Do you ever feel that way?
Marc:Where you're like, I don't want to be doing this.
Marc:I don't want to be public.
Guest:I know, I know.
Guest:But then 12 minutes later, you're like, I miss everybody.
Guest:I need you.
Guest:Yeah, I thought of something.
Guest:I've got to put it out there.
Guest:It's like when you're dating someone, you're like,
Guest:God, this sucks.
Guest:I hate her.
Guest:I got to get out.
Guest:She's smothering me.
Guest:And then you're single for seven minutes and you're like, please, please come back.
Marc:I need you.
Marc:Please.
Marc:I need somebody to resent.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When did you live out here now?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I just pop in.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when did you fly out here?
Guest:Yesterday.
Guest:I did Wise Guys and then flew here on Sunday.
Guest:Wise guys in Salt Lake City?
Marc:Yeah, good club.
Marc:It is a good club.
Marc:Now, what are they doing there?
Marc:Is it distance still or no?
Guest:Yeah, it's capacity.
Guest:It's definitely smaller, which feels cool because you sell out, so you feel cool.
Marc:What's that guy's name again?
Marc:Keith.
Marc:Yeah, I love that guy.
Marc:Great guy.
Marc:Keith Stubbs.
Marc:Keith Stubbs.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Good guy.
Marc:Yeah, I'll go work out some shit out there.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:It's not like I don't do that market in a big way.
Marc:I do the club.
Marc:I can do small theaters in a lot of places, but the places I don't, I'll go work out the hour there, and I go work out there.
Marc:I like that city.
Marc:It's a weird-
Marc:It's one of the only functioning theocracies in the country.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I kind of like it.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I do, too.
Guest:It mixes it up.
Guest:It's different.
Guest:And they go the other way.
Guest:They can't drink coffee or beer or have sex or be gay, but then they're covered in tattoos.
Guest:They're all ripped, and they love porn.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They love sister porn.
Guest:That's their number one search in Utah.
Guest:Where'd you find that out?
Guest:I Googled it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I did a sister porn joke, and they're like, ah!
Guest:How do you know?
Guest:They love it?
Guest:They love it.
Guest:Weird.
Guest:That's how everybody balances.
Marc:I guess that's balance.
Marc:I don't know what that's balancing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No coffee, but I want to fuck my sister.
Guest:You know how it goes.
Marc:It's a balancing thing.
Guest:It's like Cosby.
Guest:Pull your pants up, but I'll put you to sleep.
Marc:that guy but utah i find it to be very clean do you really found like there was a lot of mormons at your shows oh yeah oh yeah i would ask oh yeah and how what was the percentage like i never got i got the feeling i got the people that were like yeah we live here but we're not one of them there's a lot of that too but there's a lot of people like i don't go to comedy shows unless it squeaky clean because i don't know what you're gonna say right yeah well that's that's how uh uh brian regan and jim gaffigan make the bulk of their money i know every year killing it
Marc:Clean comedy.
Marc:Well, no, but they rely on the Mormon market.
Marc:You think?
Marc:I know that Brian does.
Marc:I talked to him about it.
Marc:Like he'll do a week there at a basketball arena and make his year's money.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I mean, that's what drives that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is that Mormon thing.
Guest:My friend opened for him and he said, they don't even care if you're funny.
Guest:They just want you to not be offensive.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's it.
Marc:The Mormons.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you've been working the whole way through this thing?
Guest:I took a little bit of time off when it was real scary.
Marc:But what was the work that you could do?
Marc:I just decided not to do outdoor shows.
Marc:I can't do it.
Marc:They're the worst.
Marc:Yeah, it was like I worked too long to have to do that.
Marc:Even if it's all that's available, I can live without it.
Marc:Sadly, I found that not having comedy was great.
Marc:I was surprised.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, I was surprised that... Because I...
Marc:I'll go out and do it every week because I have to.
Marc:That's the kind of work ethic you come up with in New York.
Marc:I think you came up with it the same way.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That there's this idea that like, you know, I got to get on stage at least once a night and work this thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that's the ethic I grew up in.
Marc:And I kind of like always stayed with it.
Marc:I did sets like three or four times a week in town.
Marc:But then when it went away, I was sort of like, no one's doing it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, then it's okay.
Guest:That's what made it easier.
Guest:Everyone cutting back.
Guest:they had to yeah so it's like you know i don't have to worry about what that guy's doing great i'm gonna take a break yeah and it was nice it's kind of like when the power goes out for hurricane sandy you're like i'm lazy but what can i do the power's out you know there's no i'm not gonna light a candle and write a thing yeah yeah use a pen right so yeah i i jumped around but i'm the opposite of you i went the other way i need it i gotta get up i gotta go out i gotta do something
Guest:Even if it is horrible, but then I filmed it.
Guest:That was my win.
Guest:I was like, I'm going to go to the park and do a show and bomb and get stung by a mosquito and get bitten on the neck by, you know, or get a bird shit on my head.
Marc:Did you know that was all going to happen before you did it?
Marc:Or did any of those things happen?
Guest:Yeah, we got some stuff.
Guest:Then you get the kid, he kicks a ball and hits you while you're doing your big closer.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:That happened?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's all on tape.
Guest:It's Park Normand.
Guest:I put it on YouTube.
Guest:So I just went in on like, let's talk about how silly this is.
Guest:Let's be in it.
Guest:yeah so you feel like you you need like i mean i guess i do a lot of other shit i do this thing you know twice a week and i was you know in a bad mental space but um so you felt you needed it yeah yeah i got are you one of those guys you don't know who you are yeah completely before this i was rudderless booze bag a mess a booze bag yeah i mean i'm kind of hung over now are you this is so early man i didn't ask to do whose idea was this mine
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I heard 10 o'clock and I said, all right, whatever he wants.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:That's out of my purview, the booking.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I apologize.
Guest:So you're hungover.
Guest:Well, I'm okay.
Guest:You're drinking at home or you're drinking in Utah?
Guest:You know, I went out with a few friends last night.
Guest:Where'd you go?
Guest:Well, I got some friends.
Guest:You know, I'm in L.A., so I want to see them.
Guest:So we just hit up a couple of bars.
Guest:The bars are open?
Guest:No, they're too crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Outdoors or indoors?
Guest:Indoor.
Marc:Half.
Marc:Half?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But is everyone vaccinated?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:But I'm fine.
Guest:I'm vaccinated.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, I knew I was coming here, so I took it easy.
Guest:And thanks for not pumping me for Richard Kind, by the way.
Guest:That's a get.
Marc:Did I?
Marc:No, he was here last week.
Guest:Oh, I just saw the tweet.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Oh, it comes out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I get it.
Guest:See, I record it.
Guest:Smart.
Marc:It's not live.
Guest:This isn't out right now.
Guest:You're not Howard Stern?
Marc:No, we're not taking calls.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:We got a caller.
Marc:Sleepy in Seattle.
Marc:When you came, like, I feel like you're of this crew.
Marc:Like, it's taken me a while to get around to you.
Marc:I've known of you, and I've seen you once or twice before.
Marc:You used to open for Amy, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Mostly, like a lot.
Marc:A lot for years.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you seem to be of the crew of like Joe and Sam.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Joe List, Sam Murrell.
Marc:Is that how you pronounce his last name?
Marc:Those are my guys, yeah.
Marc:Would you just say it's you, Sam and Joe?
Marc:There's got to be some of them.
Guest:Well, we're the joke, psycho, weirdo, get up a lot, comedy nerds.
Guest:We know everything about comedy.
Guest:We read the books.
Guest:We talk about comedy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's what I've noticed.
Marc:Because I notice that like-
Marc:Like watching Sam, he opened for me years ago, so I kind of know where he's coming from.
Marc:I remember that.
Marc:It was in Rooster Teeth Feathers.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Sunnyvale.
Marc:Sunnyvale, yeah.
Marc:And Joe, I didn't really know that well, but I knew he was around.
Marc:And I knew he'd come from Boston and I come from I started in Boston, really.
Marc:So when I watched him, I'm like, oh, these guys are there.
Marc:They need to be reckoned with these fellas, these joke fellas.
Guest:We just care about it.
Guest:We want to do well.
Marc:We respect the art form and all that crap.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:You know, there's a lot of us to do, you know, but there are certain dudes that like there are joke machines.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Guys who approach it differently.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:But you guys are all really kind of like jokesmiths.
Guest:We joke guys, but we still have fun.
Guest:Me and Sam like to throw a few back every now and then.
Guest:We still get kooky and cut up and say horrible things.
Marc:Well, yeah, of course.
Marc:I mean, that's part of the life.
Marc:I hope so.
Marc:But it is sort of like...
Marc:It's a timeless mode, the joke-telling mode.
Marc:I'm a long-form guy, but there's always jokes in it all the way through.
Marc:I'll write jokes, but there are guys that come from the Atel school who are sitting there doing jokes like math problems.
Marc:There's a compulsive nature to putting these jokes together.
Guest:You don't feel worthy of life if you're not writing a new joke.
Guest:Is that you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no, that's a tell.
Guest:But I try to watch him and not be that all the way.
Guest:Because I don't want to be smoking.
Guest:You don't want to be a tell?
Guest:Yeah, I don't want to be the sober guy smoking dressed like a janitor at 71.
Guest:And I love the guy, but I'm just saying, he's like a hero.
Guest:He can write some fucking jokes though, right?
Guest:He's brilliant.
Guest:When he dies, everybody's finally going to blow him as much as he deserves.
Guest:Oh, you think so?
Guest:Yeah, because he's just right there now like a bridge troll, so he's not getting the love.
Guest:But also he's talking about, you know, coming on my ass or whatever it is, so I think people don't realize how genius he is.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:We used to watch him, like, when we were all starting out, and he'd be at the cellar, and we'd be there every night, and he'd have a great joke, and then he just watches the week goes on.
Marc:He just keeps playing with it until it turns into garbage.
Marc:Ha, ha, ha.
Marc:He'll keep tooling the joke until it just turns into not funny.
Marc:Where did you grow up, though?
Guest:New Orleans, Louisiana, born and raised.
Guest:How can you not talk funny?
Guest:I was conscious of it as a kid, and I knew I didn't want to go the southern drawl route.
Guest:It doesn't work for me.
Marc:You knew that then?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I hate that yaddy kind of Cajun-y accent.
Marc:But your parents are from there as well?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But it is kind of a city city, so it's still a hub.
Guest:If you go 10 minutes outside, you're fishing and shooting gators and stuff.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But yeah, no.
Marc:So-
Marc:But like generations your family's been there?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Marc:And you don't talk like it at all?
Marc:No.
Marc:Does your brother, you have brothers or sisters?
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:We grew up pretty, you know, middle class.
Guest:It was fine.
Guest:Grew up in a black neighborhood right outside of the French Quarter called Treme.
Guest:So there was not a lot of Southern.
Marc:Treme where they made the show there.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that show stunk.
Guest:But I like those guys.
Marc:Yeah, David.
Marc:Sure, David Simon.
Marc:Simon, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, he's a good, he's a smart guy.
Marc:The Wire.
Marc:The Wire.
Marc:What did your father do?
Marc:What kind of world?
Guest:They were both, my dad was a lawyer and my mom taught law at the college.
Guest:Like at Tulane or where?
Guest:UNO, University of New Orleans.
Guest:But they were book types.
Guest:My brother's this genius kid.
Marc:He is?
Guest:Is he younger?
Guest:He's two years older than me.
Guest:I'm talking perfect son, Peace Corps in Africa, helped people in Guinea.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And then now he works for this big computer thing.
Guest:I don't know anything, but it's very impressive.
Guest:He's got two beautiful kids.
Marc:He's your older brother.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Smart guy, went straight to college, skipped his senior year of high school, went to the best high school in New Orleans, the whole thing, and I'm telling dick jokes in Utah.
Marc:So did you get along with him?
Guest:Yeah, we're cool.
Guest:Our family is a little stoic.
Guest:It's very, my parents were military, you know, so it was kind of, yeah, you do your thing, I do my thing, and we'll see you at breakfast and then kill yourself.
Marc:They were both military?
Guest:Yeah, they both went in the army together, my parents.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, because they wanted to travel the world.
Guest:They were broke.
Guest:So they did that.
Guest:They were jags.
Guest:Oh, and they did it.
Marc:They traveled the world?
Marc:Traveled the world.
Marc:Pretty cool.
Marc:But so your bro, your brother, now, did you feel like you're in the shadow of that guy?
Guest:As a kid, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I was the idiot.
Guest:I just liked jokes and comedy, and they were so smart, and I wanted to watch TV.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:They all just had their head in a book.
Guest:My brother knows DOS.
Guest:He knew DOS in like 88.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it was tough.
Guest:You know, I like Groucho and, you know, in living color and all this other shit.
Guest:And it was weird.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you have friends that were?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My friends were idiots.
Guest:We used to skateboard and we cut up and chain wallets and all that shit running around the city.
Guest:That was the cool thing about the parents is they let you go.
Guest:They didn't give a shit, but they also let you do anything.
Guest:So it was kind of bittersweet.
Marc:So they didn't, what, they gave up on you?
Guest:They just said, you do your thing.
Guest:Don't bother us.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, which I liked.
Marc:But your brother, so there was no pressure in the house?
Marc:Your brother was just naturally driven?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he was his own machine.
Guest:He just pushed himself.
Guest:Sense of humor?
Guest:Yay.
Guest:You know, he likes comedy, but he's not zinging.
Marc:Isn't it right?
Marc:But I mean, but isn't it weird?
Marc:Like, it's so hard when you have when you choose to do this life until you make some sort of success to yourself.
Marc:The attitude that family members give you is like, well, how's that?
Guest:Nightmare.
Guest:Why aren't you on SNL?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Do you know, my father once said to me, you should call Bill Maher.
Marc:He seems to have figured it out.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Why wouldn't everybody just do that, Dad?
Marc:Just call him.
Marc:Hey, Bill, my dad told me to call.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Getting Conan was a game changer.
Guest:They were like, oh, okay, we've heard of that.
Guest:Yeah, we've heard of it.
Guest:But no, they never watched it.
Guest:No.
Marc:It was so weird, dude.
Marc:There were so many shows I was doing that they couldn't figure out how to fucking watch.
Marc:So even when I was doing shows, they were like, how do you see that?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:My mother's gotten a little more proficient, so she is able to see that I'm actually not lying and the shows I'm doing exist.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I've met Obama.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But do you want her to hear this?
Guest:I kind of like that my mom is not downloading iTunes and getting a podcast app.
Guest:There's some shit I don't want her to hear, too.
Marc:Well, that's a good question because I take some shots at my mom and she takes it pretty well usually.
Marc:It turns out it seems to me to be her only way of seeing how I'm doing.
Marc:I don't stay in touch enough.
Marc:So she'll listen to the podcast or watch me on Instagram.
Marc:It's a little weird when I see her name scrolling up on Instagram commenting.
Guest:Oh, weird.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Oh, no.
Marc:Not much.
Guest:Worlds are colliding.
Marc:But one time I said something about her, I just saw her fucking little face come up and it said, that's not true.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:She heckled you.
Guest:She did.
Guest:She joke checked you.
Guest:That's what happens on Instagram.
Guest:It is heckling.
Guest:It's a nightmare.
Guest:It's all just, here's why you suck.
Guest:Here's why you're shitty and I'm right.
Marc:And you're like, can't we just get along?
Guest:Right.
Marc:So you didn't go to the good high school in New Orleans.
Guest:I went to the public school growing up and then I was a bad kid.
Guest:Like what did that have that manifest?
Guest:You know, staying out late, vandalizing.
Guest:Did you get busted?
Guest:All the time, busted, fighting, whatever it was.
Guest:Busted by cops?
Guest:Cops, teachers, you know, whatever.
Guest:And then so my parents sent me to Catholic school to kind of get my shit together.
Guest:And that work?
Guest:No, that was way worse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, these kids are way drugged out because they had some money.
Guest:So they had a little more privilege and, you know, fast cars and big houses and parents who were checked out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We really ran amok.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:The Catholics were fun.
Guest:Oh, man, were they wild.
Guest:You're not Catholic?
Guest:No, big atheist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And yeah, it was great.
Guest:It was fun.
Marc:The whole family's atheist?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're intellectuals, so they don't see that.
Guest:It's not a religion thing.
Marc:Just wasn't there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Never an issue.
Guest:Never an issue.
Guest:Never came up.
Guest:I would go to church with my friends after a sleepover because they'd just bring you when you're eight or nine.
Guest:Was that weird?
Guest:Super weird.
Guest:I hated every minute of it.
Guest:I couldn't believe how culty it was.
Guest:Like Catholics?
Guest:Catholic.
Marc:Well, that's heavy because it's sometimes a different language.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:The tongues forever and ever.
Guest:Crazy.
Guest:The communion, the kneeling.
Guest:Brutal.
Marc:And then you go to college or you didn't?
Marc:How do you get to New York?
Guest:I failed out of three colleges.
Marc:I was a mess.
Marc:What the fuck, dude?
Guest:What were you, just drinking?
Guest:Drinking.
Guest:I lived in a house with five guys and I don't know.
Guest:Like that's all you need to say.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The five guy house.
Guest:It was poker and beer pong and pool and we had a hot tub and it was wild.
Guest:We had some great times.
Guest:Also, so glad I was alive before cell phones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, I just didn't give a shit.
Guest:I didn't care about math or biology and-
Guest:What colleges did you go to?
Guest:I went to UNO, failed out.
Guest:Then I went to Baton Rouge Community College.
Guest:You failed out at community college?
Guest:Well, I just kind of stopped.
Guest:And then I got into this place called Southeastern.
Guest:This is like a C club here.
Guest:And I found comedy, moved to New York before I finished.
Guest:And my parents said, you just got to finish.
Guest:So I finished online, which is a huge joke.
Marc:Yeah, well, that's how kids have been going to school all year this year.
Guest:It's nothing.
Guest:I just had the book open and I'm answering all the questions.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:It's a joke.
Marc:So where did you start doing comedy?
Marc:In New Orleans?
Guest:New Orleans, which is not much.
Guest:Low ceiling.
Marc:There's a guy there.
Marc:Wasn't there a guy named like Wild Bill?
Guest:Yeah, Wild Bill Dykes.
Guest:Yeah, Wild Bill Dykes.
Guest:He was like the guy.
Guest:He was the staple.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we were young and impressionable, so he would kind of alpha us.
Guest:Come in here.
Guest:Let me take you under my wing.
Guest:Let me show you what's what.
Guest:And we all just went with it.
Guest:And this is before you could Google anything.
Guest:This was just like you had to figure it out, phone book, comedy clubs.
Marc:Yeah, but where was the place there?
Guest:A place called Lucy's Surfer Bar.
Marc:So it wasn't a comedy club?
Guest:No, it was just the upstairs of a bar.
Guest:But it was a great room, and it was once a week every Tuesday, and every comic in the city came, and I just fell in love with it immediately.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Who are the guys?
Guest:I mean, any of them we know?
Guest:No, you know, two of them died, heroin, and two of them moved to New York with me.
Guest:They've quit.
Guest:One moved to L.A.
Guest:One's a writer.
Guest:Sean Patton's still going.
Guest:He's killer.
Guest:He was one of your guys?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Well, yeah, I looked up to him.
Guest:He was huge.
Marc:sean was that's right funniest guy folks were in the restaurant business the catering yes exactly hmm yeah he is a funny guy he's a new orleans guy yeah he grew up outside of new orleans and slidell which is like our staten island you know it's kind of trashy so that was how it went huh yeah sean's the only one that surfaced
Guest:But I knew, I was like, this is it.
Guest:You know, you're so rudderless.
Guest:There's zero going on in your life.
Guest:You got no prospects.
Guest:So I just had a kernel of something with comedy and I just went full force.
Marc:What gave you the, you know, the idea that you could do it as a life?
Marc:I mean, who was it exactly?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was just a shot in the dark.
Guest:Let's try this.
Guest:What else have I got?
Marc:I got nothing else going on.
Marc:Who were you guys when you were watching?
Marc:Because a lot of people are sort of like, I had no idea you could make a living at it, but you're of a different generation.
Marc:It was clear that some people could.
Marc:In your mind, you're like, I could succeed at this.
Guest:I guess, but I figured if I could just do this and not have a day job, to me, that's it.
Guest:That's all I need.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And so I said, let's try New York.
Guest:What would I get to lose?
Guest:I mean, we're losers.
Marc:So you went with, but you went as a crew?
Guest:Yeah, me and three guys moved up.
Guest:Sean was already there, so he was kind of the benchmark, and then we went up and met him.
Guest:You guys were buddies?
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, so Patton showed you around.
Guest:Yeah, and we did the alt scene back then.
Guest:All these bar rooms, Creek in the Cave, all that stuff.
Guest:I was too scared of the clubs.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because it feels to me like you fit the clubs more than the alt scene.
Guest:Now I do, for sure.
Guest:I just like an audience.
Guest:I like a set time.
Guest:I like a microphone that works.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:But it's weird because the alt scene had a certain tone to it.
Marc:I guess a lot of you guys, though, who ended up really kind of broader club acts had to start there because that was more of like an open mic thing.
Marc:It was more forgiving so you could fucking work out.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:There was no like... That's true.
Marc:That's weird.
Marc:I never thought about that because the sort of major...
Marc:the open mic thing don't happen that much anymore.
Guest:No.
Marc:They just went away because people could find these other fucking outlets to figure out how to do it.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You had to because you were so green.
Guest:You didn't want to expose yourself at a comedy club with paying customers.
Marc:But the comedy clubs used to have...
Marc:I know.
Guest:But they really don't anymore.
Guest:The road still does.
Guest:Oh, they do?
Guest:Yeah, you go to Omaha.
Guest:They've got the open mic night or whatever.
Marc:On Monday or Sunday or whatever.
Marc:Right, right, yeah.
Guest:But now, I mean, and I still like the alt.
Guest:I still do it.
Guest:I still embrace it.
Guest:I think it's cool.
Guest:Sometimes they're getting a little on edge where they're like analyzing your act.
Guest:You're like, come on, this kills.
Marc:But it's like there was no, it was weird because there wasn't much business in it.
Marc:It was just, there was an attitude to it.
Marc:But if you could get laughs, because a lot of times, I imagine you'll notice,
Marc:That, you know, there are acts that try to be alt and there are acts that come out of alt that don't, that didn't necessarily really surface and have the ability to play a general club.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then, you know, even if you're not alt, as long as you're, I've seen total hacks kill an alt room.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I know, right?
Marc:It's true.
Marc:Well, there's Alt-Hack, too.
Marc:That's true, but it's not that discerning a crowd.
Marc:They're just of a fashion.
Guest:Yes, yes, exactly.
Guest:But they won't laugh at certain stuff because it goes against that fashion.
Guest:Yes, which I think is silly.
Marc:A little nervous.
Marc:Everyone's a little nervous.
Guest:We're all a little nervous.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I feel like this is so comedy in depth, we're going to lose a lot of housewives.
Marc:That's what we do.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'm misunderstanding my audience, I think.
Guest:I mean, I'll talk all day, Buck.
Guest:I just don't want to bore the fat guy in Milwaukee who's just mowing the lawn.
Marc:No, he'll enjoy it.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Don't worry.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:He's happy to hear you talk about the big city.
Marc:All right.
Marc:All right.
Marc:All right.
Marc:This is hitting 1% of people.
Marc:No, it's not.
Marc:I used to do this all the time.
Marc:All right.
Marc:This is how it started, Mark.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:I was a listener from the get-go.
Marc:This is how it started.
Marc:And you remember the days.
Marc:Hell yeah.
Marc:Just me apologizing to comedians.
All right.
Marc:Me apologizing to people I've known forever.
Marc:Are we good?
Marc:Yeah, we are good.
Marc:You and I are good.
Marc:I don't know why it took so long to get around to you.
Guest:Well, there's 8,000 comics now.
Guest:I get it.
Marc:No, but I think there's probably some old man-y kind of like, who is this kid?
Marc:Of course.
Guest:I have that with young people.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah, well, some TikTok queef.
Guest:I'm like, what do you know?
Guest:Go write something.
Guest:But then he's more famous than I am.
Marc:So he's doing something right.
Marc:That's where the resentment is, the TikTok guys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, what do they have, dude?
Marc:And it's like, the thing is, it's like you do a job.
Marc:You can do a job.
Marc:Did you record that thing at Dynasty?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No shit.
Marc:I love that room.
Marc:Yeah, I do too.
Marc:I work out there all the time.
Marc:Very ulti.
Marc:It is, but to me, in order for me to write, I need the space to just sort of stretch out.
Marc:So I don't care what the audience is there.
Marc:Usually my people come, but I just need to be like, I just got to work out some shit.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:That's too selfish.
Guest:Too indulgent.
Guest:How do you do it?
Guest:I mean, they already like you, so that's different.
Marc:No, it's the only way I can organize my shit.
Marc:You write things down like math.
Guest:I feel guilty.
Guest:I talk things through.
Guest:Yeah, I just don't want to bother anybody.
Marc:No, but I let them know.
Marc:I say, look, this isn't a big show.
Marc:I'm not sure where it's going to go, but if you want to see me fucking noodle and ramble for an hour and a half, come down.
Marc:And they come.
Marc:And they come.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:It's a small room.
Marc:It's not a huge pricey ticket.
Marc:All right.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I used to do it for five bucks at the Steve Allen.
Marc:Now that I like.
Marc:That's fun.
Marc:I used to do those shows at the Steve Allen Theater before it closed for like $5, and I'd give it all to the theater.
Guest:Whoa.
Marc:I just need to improvise through shit to see what sticks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just can't.
Guest:I don't have the self-esteem.
Guest:I feel guilty.
Guest:I can't do it.
Marc:Yeah, but you write things down.
Marc:You're like, I've got this joke.
Marc:Now I know the joke.
Marc:Now I'm going to bring it on stage and do it.
Guest:And I do tweak, of course, on stage.
Guest:You listen after.
Guest:You go, that's got to go.
Marc:Keep that.
Marc:Me, I write something down like, you know, flying cats.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then I get up there and, like, see, stretch it out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What does that even mean?
Guest:But that takes guts because that silence, I panic.
Guest:I frazzle.
Guest:That's the worst.
Guest:But that frazzle, I think, pushes you to write.
Guest:Well, what it does is it... It's fight or flight a little bit.
Guest:That's what it is.
Guest:With creativity.
Marc:It's cornering yourself.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:If I'm really funny, I should figure out a way out of this silence.
Guest:I know, but then you end up making a Jew joke or a pussy joke just because you're freaking out.
Marc:Or just go down the fucking pit of myself, which sometimes is funny.
Marc:That's true.
Guest:Just to be able to be like, look where we are, and I did it.
Guest:Yeah, and you saw it.
Guest:I exposed myself for you.
Guest:It's your fault.
Guest:I know, and you feel so vulnerable, but it kind of feels good.
Marc:No, well, that's where it happens, you know?
Marc:That's hard.
Marc:Well, yeah, the vulnerability thing.
Marc:You avoid it.
Marc:Oh, yeah, come on.
Marc:Well, that's honestly the issue that I had, I think, going into this in terms of, like, why haven't I talked to Mark Norman yet?
Marc:Because, like, I'll watch the set and I'll watch an hour and I'm like, like, where's he at?
Marc:I get that a lot.
Marc:I get that a lot.
Marc:Like, what's he dodging, this fucking guy?
Guest:I'm dodging it all.
Guest:All the pain, all the weirdness, all the awkwardness.
Guest:I feel everything.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Some people say, oh, you're a sociopath.
Guest:And I go, well, if I was, that wouldn't hurt my feelings.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, like, has it always been a way for you to kind of I guess it is for all of us.
Marc:It's a dumb question to avoid the fucking, you know, it's like it's a way to have complete control over your dumb world.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:That's all we want.
Guest:That's what comedy is.
Guest:Harry Shearer said it best.
Guest:I know.
Marc:I think he said it here.
Marc:To control why people laugh at you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you hear it here?
Guest:I probably did.
Guest:I think about that twice a day.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He said that to me and I thought about it too.
Marc:You can control why people laugh at you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:It's perfect.
Guest:I mean, I was a bed wetter, you know, the weirdo in the neighborhood.
Marc:You were?
Guest:Yeah, all that shit just stuck with me.
Guest:So I need to control it.
Guest:You wet your bed?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:For how long?
Guest:Pretty late, you know, 10, 11.
Guest:Yeah, I'm covered in urine now.
Marc:But now it's different.
Marc:It's booze.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Back then it was just wet.
Marc:That's true.
Guest:But I've peed on a lot of kids.
Guest:I've peed on more kids than R. Kelly.
Guest:I mean, just the sleepovers alone.
Guest:Brutal.
Guest:You know, kids wake up, what the fuck?
Guest:Jesus.
Guest:I'm like, I'm sorry.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Marc:What was it?
Guest:What causes it?
Guest:They say it's trauma.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Could you track the trauma?
Guest:I think the neighborhood was rough.
Guest:We got robbed a lot.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Our house was scary.
Guest:The pipes barely worked.
Guest:The electricity barely worked.
Guest:I had a mechanics light hanging.
Guest:That was my light.
Marc:Like a work light?
Guest:Yeah, like a shed light.
Marc:Why?
Marc:I thought your parents were lawyers.
Guest:Well, they bought this crazy mansion in Treme that was, you know, dilapidated.
Marc:Oh, so they were going to fix it up?
Guest:They were going to fix it up, but it's so expensive.
Guest:So they never got around to fixing that?
Guest:They fixed half of it, and then they needed more income, so they made that half into a bed and breakfast.
Guest:So now we're living in squalor, but then the bed and breakfast is pristine.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, it was a weird upbringing.
Marc:So you had people just coming in, quaint people, your mom's making them breakfast and shit?
Guest:My mom was whipping up French toast and I got Chinese businessmen, traveling musicians, hippies, whatever, at the table before school.
Marc:Yeah, and you're living in a room with a work light.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:You know what it's like to jerk off with a work light?
Guest:It feels weird.
Guest:Necessary.
Guest:yeah yeah yeah so that's what did it huh that's what kind of fucked your head up i get and you know my our alarm would go with this big alarm system in the house and it would go off at two in the morning and you're nine years old going oh god there's somebody in the house it's freaky you know you can just hear people downstairs you'd come down the tv's gone oh my god it was a it was a wacky way to grow up so do they still own the house
Guest:No, they got two guys came in and tied them up.
Guest:There was guns, so they moved out.
Guest:When you were there?
Guest:No, I was at a Mardi Gras parade.
Guest:I was 14.
Guest:And I came back.
Guest:There was cops everywhere.
Guest:It was a whole thing.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It was wild.
Guest:So they tied him up and robbed him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, where's the cash?
Guest:Was your brother there?
Guest:He was there.
Guest:I feel guilty that I wasn't there.
Marc:Did they tie him up?
Guest:Yeah, oh, yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Heavy stuff.
Guest:I'm too weak for that.
Guest:I would have crumbled.
Yeah.
Marc:And done what?
Marc:I would have blown a guy.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I would have just panicked and be like, whatever you need.
Marc:Even if they didn't ask you to?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My dad's like, why'd you blow that guy?
Guest:I'm like, I don't know.
Guest:I was trying to save the family.
Marc:Stop it, Mark.
Marc:It's not necessary.
Marc:He didn't want that.
Marc:That's fucking hilarious.
Marc:So that is terrifying.
Guest:Oh, it was horrible.
Guest:I mean, the 90s in New Orleans.
Guest:I moved to New York.
Guest:I was like, watch out for New York.
Guest:New York was nothing compared to New Orleans.
Marc:Were you there during Katrina?
Guest:Yeah, I was in college about an hour away in Baton Rouge.
Marc:That was devastating, man.
Marc:I went down there and did that comedy show for Bill Sykes within the year.
Marc:It was less than a year after, and it was still leveled.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Marc:It was sad.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:The houses with the X's on them and all that shit.
Marc:Whole neighborhood's fucking gone.
Marc:Just whole neighborhood.
Marc:It was like driving around because we took a ride around it.
Marc:I couldn't believe it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a big blow, but now the city's doing great.
Guest:It kind of had that like an enema to the city and now it's thriving.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You go back?
Guest:All the time.
Guest:See the folks.
Guest:They're all right?
Guest:They're all right, yeah.
Guest:Where's your brother?
Guest:He's living there, bought a house.
Guest:Wife's a doctor, killing it.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, he's living the good life.
Guest:Two kids.
Guest:But every Thanksgiving, he grabs my arm after three beers and goes, don't do it.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Like, don't get married.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, he sees you on Fallon.
Guest:He's like, oh, man, you're living it up.
Guest:But I'm like, oh, I'm sad, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's five minutes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But, oh, God, man.
Marc:So, like, but the piss in your bed thing, it wasn't like that show.
Marc:Do you remember that after-school special where the mother put the sheet, hang the sheet out the front of the... What was it, James at 15?
Marc:What was that weird...
Marc:The bed wetter story was terrible.
Marc:It was like an after school special where the horrible mother would hang the sheet out in front of the house.
Marc:Whoa.
Marc:So everyone could see.
Marc:What a cunt.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then the kid would have to run home before the other kids would pass the house to pull the sheet in.
Guest:Oh, it's horrible.
Guest:I mean, Jesus.
Guest:That didn't happen to you, though.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:My sheets looked like an old treasure map.
Guest:I mean, with the yellow lines on it and everything.
Guest:But my mom did the crinkly, the plastic.
Guest:So one time I had a friend over and he sat on it and I had to make up a whole thing.
Guest:But yeah, it was embarrassing.
Marc:Hiding the bed wetting.
Guest:Yeah, that was a big part of my life.
Guest:And as a kid, staying up all night at the sleepover, because if you fall asleep for 10 minutes, you piss.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I had no control.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:It's terrible.
Guest:So now I'm on no sleep the next day.
Guest:We're playing baseball.
Guest:Trying to be cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just go on with it.
Marc:Oh, that's fucking terrible.
Marc:I went to a sleepover.
Marc:My best friend when I was like eight, seven maybe was my neighbor.
Marc:I literally went to a sleepover next door at his house and threw up all over everything.
Marc:And like forever, you know, the father, like every time I go over there, they had to cut a piece of carpet to put over the stain that I made on the rug.
Marc:And it was just like, it was next door.
Marc:So you got to think like his parents is like, are you kidding me?
Marc:This Jew from next door came over to our house and just threw up.
Marc:Because his mom made weird food.
Marc:I didn't know what it was.
Marc:What was it?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think I was just nervous.
Marc:Hamburger helper, some Gentile shit.
Marc:Well, I mean, my mother couldn't cook, but it was just weird.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I think it was, when I look back on it, I think it was totally anxiety-based.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It wasn't like, I wasn't sick.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was just nervous.
Marc:You were so close.
Marc:You could have just ran home.
Marc:I could have.
Marc:Help me.
Marc:Damn.
Marc:I could have ran...
Guest:damn that sucked man ran home and thrown up yeah that stuff is the kid now a kid can just uber he can get out of there you know i feel like you were stuck somewhere how'd you get over the pissing thing i got older i don't know i just went away yeah like at 14 it kind of just stopped happening thank god were you did you notice it were you like oh it was great i mean you sleep full eight hours and you're singing in the morning like uh was it after the the tying up thing did that end it
Guest:No, that didn't help, but it was around then because we moved houses, and maybe that was it.
Guest:And that's when it happened.
Guest:Yeah, we moved to a better neighborhood.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:They gave up on the project?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It just took them almost being murdered?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:That's what it took.
Guest:Not the kids being sad and scared.
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Guest:But hey, it made us tough.
Guest:I mean, I lived in New York and got mugged a couple times.
Guest:You did?
Guest:And got bed bugs, landlord died of AIDS, you know, poor for five, six years.
Marc:Whoa, whoa, that's a lot of information.
Marc:You were a janitor?
Guest:I was a janitor.
Guest:Great gig, by the way.
Guest:So you get to New York and you start, you move where first?
Guest:I moved to Crown Heights.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And there's, you know, I don't know if you've been there.
Guest:In Brooklyn?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:2007.
Guest:There was still some Jewish black tension then.
Guest:And I lived on the black side.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so they all thought I was Jewish because of the curly hair.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And the rouses.
Guest:And you ran around going like, I don't like them either.
Yeah.
Guest:They're all over the place.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But I'd get a lot of like, you're on the wrong side, motherfucker.
Guest:You know, from guys on the black side.
Guest:And yeah, like also Jews would, you know, I'd come home 5 a.m.
Guest:drunk and Jews would pull up in a minivan and go, what are you doing?
Guest:Get in.
Guest:And I was like, I'm not Jewish.
Guest:And they would slide that door closed and drive off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a nice sentiment until they knew I was a goy.
Marc:The chassids in their station wagons.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Big white minivan slid the door open.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:I said, I'm not Jewish.
Guest:And...
Guest:They were out of there.
Guest:What were they going to do?
Guest:To give you a ride?
Guest:They were going to give me a ride to the other side of Eastern Parkway.
Guest:Where you didn't live.
Guest:No, I was a block away from home.
Guest:But I was a drunk mess.
Guest:You know, you remember being an open miker.
Guest:You're so clueless.
Marc:You're staying at those clubs all night.
Marc:You're wandering around for hours.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Three in the morning.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And then, you know, you end up kind of making your way home.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:After you did a shitty set at two places.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And hung around with Sean Patton for four hours.
Guest:Yeah, and drinking anything you can.
Guest:Is that red wine?
Guest:Is that beer?
Guest:Is that liquor?
Guest:Whatever you got.
Guest:I just got to cut this anxiety.
Guest:I'm freaking out.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:So that went on for a while.
Marc:Where did you move after Crown Heights?
Guest:Moved to Bushwick, which was like the Hamptons compared to Crown Heights.
Guest:Got bed bugs there, then had to move out.
Marc:Bed bugs?
Marc:That was the worst.
Guest:It's like you feel like a non-vet.
Marc:Did they bite you?
Marc:Did they bite me?
Marc:Yeah, it was a wreck.
Marc:Because I had them at one of the apartments, and they didn't bite me.
Marc:But they were around.
Marc:It's so hard to get rid of.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:My roommate, they didn't bite at all.
Guest:And they went to town on me, and I was furious.
Guest:It was so menacing mentally.
Guest:Oh, dude, you wake up at 3 a.m., and you're like, ah!
Guest:And you can't see them.
Guest:It's dark.
Guest:They're dark.
Marc:And there was all these myths about them, like you can never get rid of them.
Marc:They're 1,000 years old.
Marc:There's no killing them.
Marc:They're in the walls.
Marc:Yeah, they're forever there.
Marc:They're impossible to get rid of.
Marc:If they're in the building, it's over.
Guest:There's truth to that, because I...
Guest:Bought a new bed, which is all the money I had.
Guest:I washed all my clothes and I got an exterminator and they were still there.
Guest:Well, that's the thing.
Marc:I don't know when it started happening because it was after I left.
Marc:But the woman who was subletting my apartment in Queens, the building got them.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I just remember I got so fucking organized.
Marc:Everything was in plastics.
Marc:I sealed everything up, cleaned everything up.
Marc:A guy came over to exterminate and he was wheezing.
Marc:This is Indian dude.
Marc:And he's wheezing going, it was better when we could use the DDT.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:Like he was mourning the times where they could use real poison and he could barely breathe the way it was.
Yeah.
Marc:And I don't know if they ever went away, but like they seem not unlike like a virus to sort of like it got less.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know how or why, but, you know, it just seemed you stopped hearing about it for a while.
Marc:There was all you fucking heard about.
Marc:All you heard about.
Guest:Don't sit on the subway bench.
Marc:You'll get it.
Guest:They're in the wood.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They're everywhere.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And then you start seeing them when they're not there.
Marc:And then the eggs.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Got to get the mattress.
Marc:Got to wrap your bed.
Marc:Got to wrap all your clothes.
Marc:My closet was just these weird plastic sealed things.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So Bushwick bed bugs.
Marc:And then where do you scramble after that?
Guest:I had sex with a girl who lived in the East Village.
Guest:And I remember waking up at her apartment and being like, this is what it's all about.
Guest:Just the idea of waking up in Manhattan on the island, no more L train, no more crossing that river every day.
Guest:And I vowed to myself, I'm going to move to the village.
Guest:So I paid 800 bucks for a shoebox with two guys, a DJ and a painter.
Guest:And we lived on Fifth Street and Second Avenue in the village.
Guest:And I loved it.
Marc:I lived on second between first and A for years, a couple years.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's a good area.
Marc:It's a good area now.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:When I was there in 1989.
Marc:Holy hell.
Marc:It was still a little rough.
Guest:But you still had Mars Bar and all those cool doc holidays.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And Save the Robots.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But there was a lot of dope around, and Giuliani had just sort of felt like he had just started to do his thing and crack down on that ship.
Marc:There was a lot of the white heroin around, a lot of kids snorting the dope.
Guest:Yeah, but it could be worse.
Guest:I mean, at least they're kind of woozy and zonked out.
Marc:No, I lived right next door to a heroin place, and I was sober at the time.
Marc:But I did like living there, though I did get my car broken into constantly.
Marc:Ah, that's tough.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Marc:I didn't get mugged.
Marc:How'd you get mugged?
Marc:Where'd you get mugged?
Guest:I got mugged once in Crown Heights.
Guest:Crazy story.
Guest:Drunk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Took the subway, you know, two in the morning.
Guest:Of course it changed, you know, construction, we're going to take you.
Guest:So I got out like way far away from my house because of the whole detour bullshit with the subways.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's like a 30-minute walk, but I'm like, fuck it, I'll walk it.
Guest:It's a nice night.
Guest:I'm drunk.
Guest:I got my headphones in, which is a big red flag, the Apple headphones, you know.
Guest:And I see these guys on the corner.
Guest:I'm talking like out of a movie, hood shit, rolling dice, drinking 40s, playing music, the whole thing, stereotype.
Guest:And I go, I'm just going to cross the street, you know, nerdy white guy.
Guest:What are you going to do?
Guest:And then this older guy is coming towards me.
Guest:And I go, he's got a white beard.
Guest:He's probably like 65, 70.
Guest:And right when he gets in front of me, he goes, give me that radio.
Guest:And he won't let me buy them.
Guest:And I'm like, I was so drunk.
Guest:I go, it's not a radio.
Guest:Like it's an MP3 player, you know, and he grabs it.
Guest:So I grab it.
Guest:And now we're doing this shit tug of war.
Guest:And then he picks me up by my shirt and starts slamming me against the, you know, when a business closes, that metal gate thing goes down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's like, pow, pow.
Guest:It's like this big thunderous booming.
Guest:And I'm like kicking him and punching him, but he won't budge.
Guest:Those guys over there, the dice throwers, see this, run over, pull him off me, beat the shit out of the guy, stomping him, the whole thing.
Guest:I grab my iPod and I run home.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I asked a cop about it later and he said, those were probably drug dealers and they can't have a honky getting killed in the turf because it'll draw a lot of attention.
Marc:You didn't understand why they were helping you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I thought they were nice.
Guest:I said, thank you.
Guest:I patted one on the back and I ran away.
Guest:Terrifying.
Guest:Terrifying.
Guest:Yeah, and boy, this guy was, he must have been PCP'd up.
Guest:Something was, he was so charged up, this guy.
Marc:Cracked up.
Marc:Something was going on, yeah.
Marc:Well, you got out of that one.
Marc:That was one.
Marc:So, the girl you swept with in the East Village, where'd that go, anywhere?
Guest:Nah, nah, that fizzled with comedy.
Marc:Yeah, but she inspired you to move.
Guest:Yes, and I moved there, and I never looked back.
Guest:Then I lived on Bleecker Street.
Guest:I lived in the village.
Marc:You lived on Bleecker Street?
Guest:All over, huh?
Guest:You lived on Bleecker Street?
Guest:Bleecker and right by Joe's Pizza.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Beautiful apartment.
Guest:Off by 6th Avenue?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And that was a game changer.
Guest:I've always wanted to be in the village.
Guest:And you're still there, right?
Guest:Now I'm there again with a nice big place with windows, and I got stairs in my apartment.
Guest:I got a little railing pre-war.
Guest:Good times.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:Where's that?
Guest:6th Avenue, right off Mineta.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So you live at the cellar?
Guest:Yeah, basically.
Marc:Mineta Lane and Sixth Avenue.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:It's like a fairy tale street.
Guest:Do you live by yourself?
Guest:No, me and my lady.
Guest:Oh, you got a lady?
Guest:And a cat.
Marc:And a cat.
Marc:How long is the lady thing happening?
Marc:A couple years.
Guest:I mean, it's pretty serious.
Guest:Is she a comic?
Guest:Yeah, trying it out.
Guest:She's a newish comic, got a podcast.
Guest:What's her name?
Guest:Uh-oh.
Guest:I don't know if I'm supposed to be talking about her.
Guest:Why?
Guest:She don't want you to?
Guest:Well, I don't know what she wants out there.
Guest:Her name's May.
Guest:Check out her pod.
Marc:Well, that's what I was going to say.
Guest:You can't plug her podcast?
Guest:All right, I'm plugging it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:We Were Had.
Marc:We Were Had?
Guest:It's like a true crime kind of podcast.
Marc:That's what it's called?
Marc:We Were Had?
Marc:We Were Had.
Marc:We got tricked.
Marc:Oh, cool.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's going all right for her?
Marc:Going all right, yeah.
Marc:Are you doing a regular podcast?
Marc:Yeah, I got two now.
Marc:Because I know I see you talking to somebody.
Marc:Who do I see you talking to?
Guest:Joe List.
Marc:Oh, Joe List.
Marc:And Sam Marill.
Marc:And Sam Marill.
Marc:No, but didn't I see you talking to Joe DeRosa?
Marc:No.
Guest:Hey, I love Joe.
Guest:No, maybe not.
Marc:So it's List and Morell?
Guest:Yeah, me and Sam have one about drinking, and then me and List have one about kind of the road and living.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How are they going?
Guest:Going great.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Pods, man.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Marc:You know.
Marc:You were about to work at Starbucks.
Marc:Who knew we all wanted to be?
Marc:The one thing we never wanted to be, we all seem to aspire to now, radio personalities.
Guest:Well, isn't it bananas that you talking to some dweeb gets more views than Conan?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:yeah i you know i don't know whose fault that is i know whose fault it is those goddamn talentless suits with no vision and no creativity and no balls i don't know well everything is broken apart and it's very hard to know like there's no like one guy anymore yeah so you know you find you a little corner and you just deal with it if you can make a living in your but it's very out to me and i never thought about it until recently
Marc:Kevin Christie brought it up to me.
Marc:Is that like, you know, everyone's doing their version of drive time radio.
Marc:Like a podcast is a podcast.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:But a lot of them are really just, you know, radio shows.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when I was coming up, it's like that meant that it was over.
Marc:Like if you ended up hosting a radio show, especially a regional radio show, you were like the sidecar on a radio show.
Marc:That's too bad.
Marc:He couldn't cut it.
Marc:But now it's sort of like it's expected of you to figure out how to put together your own radio show.
Marc:It's true.
Marc:But it's called a podcast.
Marc:But I guess that's the joke now that everybody's got a podcast.
Guest:But it's weird that things just go back.
Guest:Things just 180, 360 all the way back to where it started.
Guest:Now we're back sitting on the floor watching the radio.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I think that's true.
Marc:I do think that because of the DIY nature of it, everybody thinks that they should be able to do something successfully.
Marc:And who the hell knows what makes someone interesting on these fucking mics?
Marc:Because there's plenty of people that do it that aren't.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And I don't know how they persist.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Could you do a podcast like every week if like, you know, nine people listened?
Marc:No, hell no.
Guest:How long could you do that?
Guest:It's like the lottery, though.
Guest:They go, oh, my, I'll win.
Guest:It's me.
Marc:I guess so, but I think it's also a delusion around the idea that it doesn't take talent to do it.
Guest:Yeah, but I think they think they're talent.
Marc:Of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I think that's what I'm saying is the problem.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:Well, that's the problem with Americans in general.
Marc:Well, I know, but it wasn't before everybody could do everything on their own.
Guest:Of course.
Marc:Now no one knows when to stop because they just think like it's a matter of time.
Marc:Yeah, this is new and it's not pretty.
Marc:It isn't.
Marc:And I've said that and I feel like some sort of weird entertainment fascist when I say it.
Marc:It's like, you know, it was better when everyone didn't have a voice.
Guest:I know, but then why do you get one and they don't?
Marc:Well, no, no, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:I mean, I understand, and everybody should have a place, but to weed through thousands of comments by people with fake names talking about bullshit.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And your mom.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Got to throw her in there.
Marc:She's part of the stream.
Guest:I think it's almost like having a kid.
Guest:Not everybody should have a kid.
Guest:There's a lot of psychos out there.
Guest:I don't have them.
Guest:Yeah, you know not to have one.
Marc:I do.
Guest:You know you're nuts.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But that's why... But you're allowed to.
Guest:Everybody's allowed to, which is a horrible system and a horrible idea, but how else can it be?
Guest:What are you going to say?
Guest:Hey, no kids.
Marc:If you want to live in a free country.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is the price of freedom.
Marc:A lot of bad shit.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Being put through the fucking...
Marc:the machine yes podcasts are like babies they're too easy to make and not everybody should have one that's the the message if you leave with anything and now we're just dealing with a lot of crying yes of one kind or another yeah so when does comedy start to take off so you're doing what you're doing open mics when do you get past at the cell are you morale and uh list get passed around the same time or how's that
Guest:Sam got in first.
Guest:I think he had kind of a Jew bond over there with everybody.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But he's great.
Guest:Obviously, I'm joking.
Guest:And then List got sober and just kicked it up a notch career-wise.
Guest:And I think we all kind of banded together.
Guest:We're like, you got to get this guy in.
Guest:What's it, like six years ago?
Guest:Five years?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:Six, seven.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But List was, I mean, he's been doing comedy for 98 years.
Guest:He was opening for Dane Cook and DiPaolo and Gullman and all these guys.
Guest:So he's more of a vet than any of us.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:So you start hanging around the cellar like everybody else and kind of making your way towards the table or what?
Guest:I'm not a hang guy.
Guest:I stay back.
Guest:I don't bother.
Guest:I don't make waves.
Guest:I don't get made fun of.
Guest:I'd rather get in on my own merit.
Guest:These guys who hang out, I never got it.
Guest:Maybe I'll just eat wings every night and then if they need a guy, if Geraldo dies, I'll be there.
Guest:but yeah i i just kept i just want to get better get better so you mind your own business yeah mind your own business stick with your guys and go go to a show go to a mic instead of waiting around yeah yeah yeah get up work it you're not gonna do that at a gym let me just wait around the gym right now go to the gym and work out so when when did uh what was your break opening for schumer really schumer was big but i was still a janitor i was a janitor during the day mopping up shit in the bathroom and then i was doing arenas at night with her where were you a janitor
Guest:I was at a hedge fund skyscraper in Midtown.
Guest:What was that, temp job?
Guest:It was three days a week, nine to five.
Marc:How'd you fucking settle on that?
Guest:I saw it in a classified ad, and I jumped on it, because I was a furniture mover and all this other stuff, but that requires too much...
Guest:I wanted to be zoned out so I could just think about my act.
Guest:And I worked temp at a couple universities answering phones and data entry.
Guest:I wanted to kill myself.
Guest:You're stuck in a chair just putting in numbers, Excel spreadsheet, nightmare, fluorescent lights, bad coffee, small talk in the kitchenette.
Guest:Nightmare.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But at least with labor, you can just kind of move and be free and listen to headphones and think.
Guest:So I like that.
Guest:So you just took a janitor gig.
Guest:Mopping headphones in.
Guest:You get into a David Bowie zone and you're mopping.
Guest:I mean, it's a beautiful thing.
Marc:And no one's fucking with you.
Guest:Yeah, no one's.
Guest:I would go to the boiler room and write like a like a weird, you know, hunchback.
Marc:So it's just all about the comedy and you don't want to be interfered.
Marc:You don't want the job to interfere with the fuck your head up.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're able to accept the Zen of mopping.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Zen of mopping.
Guest:And there's, you know, they say there's very good therapeutic value in cleaning.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And I think there's truth to that.
Guest:Sure, man.
Guest:Except the maids at the hotel don't seem happy.
Guest:But that's a whole different ball of wax.
Marc:What do you mean?
Guest:They must be thrilled.
Guest:What are you talking about?
Marc:Like, he already did it.
Marc:He made his own bed.
Marc:Sticky as hell.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When you're cleaning your hotel room out of shame, that's a sign that you might need to get your shit together.
Yeah.
Guest:Like, I don't want the maid to see this fucking- Oh, good point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That could be a bit.
Guest:Write that down.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Now you don't have to try it on a bunch of strangers.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But yeah, yeah.
Guest:So janitor was great, but I was doing the Schumer gigs, and then she kind of got me an audition at the cellar, got in, and then- How'd she find you?
Guest:Oh, crazy story.
Guest:I was at comics.
Guest:Remember comics?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I saw you there with Garofalo years ago.
Guest:Were you judging?
Guest:I was just so green.
Guest:I was in awe.
Guest:I went and saw everybody.
Guest:Geraldo, you, you know.
Marc:It was kind of like they really put a lot into that room.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And they overpaid everybody.
Marc:And I was coming in from out of town.
Marc:They used to put us up at a fancy hotel.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you just knew right away.
Marc:It's like, where's this money coming from?
Marc:And how is this going to survive?
Guest:So true.
Guest:I looked at the menu.
Guest:It said pesto.
Guest:I said, this isn't going to last.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it was like they really did it.
Marc:And it was at the sort of the kind of renaissance of the meatpacking district.
Marc:But it just like it was doomed.
Guest:And the crowd was models and blow.
Marc:It was weird, man.
Guest:It wasn't going to work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But great club when it worked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was like my home club.
Guest:I would do that bottom room, that downstairs.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was like my spot.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I saw Patrice there.
Guest:I saw everybody there.
Guest:I saw you do a live WTF with Attell, and that was legendary.
Guest:And Schumer came in at the end of that.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:And Geraldo, too.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, that was a big one.
Guest:That was a big one.
Guest:I saw that live.
Marc:That was exciting.
Marc:I was so impressed with Amy because I don't think she was scheduled to come on, and we let her go last.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was after Attell and Geraldo, and I can't remember who else was there.
Marc:Maybe Joe DeRosa.
Marc:Maybe DeRosa.
Guest:Maybe Morgan Murphy.
Marc:Oh, that's possible.
Marc:Yeah, Morgan definitely did one.
Marc:And then, like, Amy just came in and fucking nailed it at the fucking end.
Guest:She's a pro.
Guest:I mean, she doesn't get her due.
Guest:She's so good on her feet.
Marc:Yeah, she really is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Not only does she not get her due, she got, like, a bad rap for reasons that were not correct.
Guest:I agree.
Guest:I agree.
Guest:But hey.
Guest:So she saw you there?
Guest:I was bombing at a showcase there, and I had one joke work, and she happened to walk through the crowd to go to the groom when I was doing that joke.
Guest:I guess she liked the joke, and she came in the groom and said, hey, that was funny.
Guest:And I was like, oh, I'm covered in sweat.
Guest:Like, oh, really?
Guest:And she was like, I'm doing some gigs.
Guest:Do you ever want to open?
Guest:And I was like, oh, my God, of course.
Guest:So then we went all over and did a bunch of gigs.
Guest:And she wasn't big yet, so it was like Funny Farm and...
Guest:Oh, club gigs.
Guest:Yeah, half-sold, funny bones, and then, man, she just ticked up, did the roast, then had her own show, then a movie, and then it was The Garden.
Guest:You did The Garden with her?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, and Madonna.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What do you mean, and Madonna?
Guest:Madonna did a set on one.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was when it was like, what are we doing?
Marc:Who are you?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know Madonna?
Guest:Right.
Marc:How did that change everything for you?
Guest:Well, she was still cool.
Guest:I mean, she's a comic all the way.
Guest:No, no, that's true.
Guest:I remember one time I was opening for her at Gotham, and I texted her because I was so broke and miserable.
Guest:And I said, there's free pizza in the green room.
Guest:Get over here.
Guest:And she goes, I'm making 60 grand.
Guest:And I was like, oh, right, right, right.
Guest:So that was kind of when I was like, oh, she's going up in the world.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But how did it feel for you?
Marc:Because, I mean, I guess that's- It was unreal, surreal.
Marc:The one thing about jokes, about knowing you have your jokes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes of shit that works in a small room, all you got to do is slow it down.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And it's like cake, right?
Marc:Cake.
Guest:And now you're glad you got that material.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, these guys are like, I'll make it work.
Guest:I'll figure it out.
Guest:I'm like, no, no, I want that tight set so I can kill in this theater.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then, yeah, I opened for Louie for a while, opened for a bunch of people at Seinfeld, and yeah, things started cooking.
Guest:Was everybody nice to you?
Guest:Very nice.
Guest:I felt like the people who weren't nice were the least funny.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:There was a lot of that.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, like Tom Papa took me on the road a little bit, and he was the sweetest guy ever.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he's a good comic.
Marc:Yeah, he is good.
Marc:He's got tight craft, that guy.
Marc:Oh, yeah, he's a pro.
Marc:Yeah, but it's odd.
Marc:It's old school, man.
Marc:It's almost Jack Benny-ish sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, there's a little of that, but that's part of the charm.
Marc:No, no, no, it's great.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I always envy the guys that are that tight.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like working with Seinfeld.
Marc:What made an impact on you starting out like that when you saw these guys?
Marc:Was there something, because, I mean, we're all stubborn fucking, you know, cunts.
Marc:And, you know, we don't want to really learn anything.
Marc:But occasionally you're working with somebody and you're like, oh, I'm going to make note of that.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:But, like, was there anything you took away from those experiences?
Guest:Yeah, mostly the business stuff.
Guest:Because I learned that you've got to, like, kind of say what you like and don't like and stick up for yourself.
Guest:And, you know, if the limo driver's talking to you too much, you've got to go, hey, that's enough.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I would go, oh, my God, what are you doing?
Guest:This is a human being.
Guest:But now I totally get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now you're in a town car.
Guest:You're going, why the fuck is this guy asking me about Letterman?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:So I'm not saying.
Guest:So you had to learn how to be rude.
Guest:Well, you had to learn how to.
Guest:Boundaries.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:That's the word.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that was interesting.
Guest:Money.
Guest:Like, you're the one going out.
Guest:They're getting 10%.
Guest:You're doing all the work.
Guest:You got to push for this.
Guest:And I was like, oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, if you said here it's 50 bucks, go do this, I would do it.
Marc:Yeah, because you get into this mind, right, where it's sort of like, oh, it's a gig?
Marc:You don't even ask about money.
Guest:No, of course not.
Marc:You're sort of like, okay, yeah, I'll drive seven hours.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Wait, I get to order off the whole menu?
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:I've hit the big time.
Guest:What do we get paid for this, by the way?
Guest:I'll give you a fucking coffee.
Guest:All right, I'll take it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got to do Bobby Lee after this.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:You're doing the circuit?
Guest:I'm doing the big circuit.
Guest:This is the new Tonight Show circuit.
Guest:This is the new late night.
Marc:I love Bobby.
Guest:Yeah, he's a good egg.
Guest:Funny guy.
Guest:He is a very funny guy.
Marc:It's a nut.
Guest:Now, did you, I mean, obviously you live in a great home.
Guest:You got a great setup here.
Guest:But do you miss that fucking, because you were part of that heyday, man.
Guest:I'm talking Quinn and Louie and Burr and Attell and Patrice and DiPaolo and Geraldo.
Guest:You were in that.
Marc:Those were like, well I think Quinn was actually, I would put him the generation before me, really.
Marc:And so by the time I got to New York, do I miss that, being in the dirt of it?
Marc:What was weird, because Burr's, I think, a little younger than me, and he'd come down from Boston.
Marc:But by the time a lot of those guys came, I was out of New York by 2002.
Marc:After 9-11, I was out here.
Marc:And I was in New York from, I guess I was there pretty much 89 to 2001.
Marc:So some of those cats came after.
Marc:I came to know them from coming back, but it wasn't like I was there when Patrice first got there.
Marc:Giraldo I knew from the old days, but he was actually a little younger than me, because I remember when Giraldo was sort of doing a tell.
Marc:I can remember them starting out.
Marc:The guys that I came up with mostly were like Todd Berry, Jeff Liftschultz, or Jeff Ross, DePaulo I knew from Boston, because I started in Boston
Marc:really in 88 so there were some of those guys but right but the guys some of the guys you're talking about were like a little after me like i was there when bill came down bill remember when bill and kevin got big deals kevin brennan kevin hart oh i started with kevin brennan too like he was definitely around he was a big deal he was great you know i don't know like you know now he's got a very weird following sure you know and you know you always every once in a while see a tweet i'm like i don't have a problem with kevin do i yeah does he have a problem with me i think that's all part of the fun
Marc:Oh yeah, that's what fun is?
Marc:I'm having a hard time adjusting to the new fun, I think.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, it's a lot.
Marc:But yeah, I mean, I was so, like you, racked with anxiety and freaked out.
Marc:I didn't get passed at the cellar until she saw my half hour on HBO.
Marc:Everyone else was passed at the cellar.
Marc:Louis was around, and him and Nick and those guys, when I was there in 89, they were all working Catch and The Cellar, and me and Todd were wandering around doing Boston Comedy Club, the old improv, places that, the secondary rooms that would let us work.
Marc:There was no alt scene.
Marc:yeah so it was a lot of stress and a lot of like why can't we fucking get in there and i didn't like to hang around either like that the catcherizing star thing you had to hang around for that fucking asshole lewis yeah to choose you to go on at some point in the evening yeah you can wait there and it's like i'm not giving that guy power and i couldn't stand manny i couldn't stand nasty i couldn't it's like i'm not fucking i can't kiss the ass yeah so in retrospect
Marc:You know, once I got passed and stuff, it was great for five years and the alt scene started and that was exciting.
Marc:But I was a fucking, you know, drunky, drugged up, anxious, angry mess.
Guest:Hey, we're one of the same, baby.
Guest:But those gatekeepers, man, that's what that Lewis guy like the waiting.
Guest:I pick you.
Guest:It's that God complex.
Guest:That's what's great about this.
Marc:Yeah, no, for sure.
Marc:Yeah, there's a freedom to it, and I definitely learned how to do it, and I learned how to be on the road in Boston doing one-nighters, so my training was sort of specific.
Marc:It was shit gigs, a two-man show, half-hour open, 45 closer, and you had to figure it out.
Marc:You had to go up cold in a place that wasn't set up for comedy.
Marc:Yeah, it's a knife fight.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Guest:Totally, but that made you good, because I'd see you on good shows where you're like, ah, fuck you guys.
Guest:I'm like, no, they like you.
Guest:This isn't the Calhoun or whatever the fuck it's called.
Marc:Oh, that's funny.
Marc:The Calhoun, right?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So he used to be preemptively defensive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was Dan Vitale used to do this.
Marc:He used to open his show at the old Improv.
Marc:He'd just get up there and go like, I got a feeling that we're not going to get along.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Right out of the gate.
Guest:That's so perfect, though, because we've all thought that.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I appreciate seeing what I saw when I started, because it was sort of the end of that first generation of dinosaurs.
Marc:You saw a lot of the sad old guys at the old improv and a lot of the young guys coming up.
Marc:And I saw guys in my generation who I love actually get funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's a weird thing to be starting out with somebody like Todd or Jeff Ross,
Marc:where it was like, you know, you're not funny.
Marc:I mean, you're funny, but someone like Todd, who's hilarious, he only has the Todd speed.
Marc:Yeah, so true.
Marc:But his commitment to it was astounding because he couldn't change.
Guest:Yeah, he made it work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's almost like Borgazzi.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You watch these guys get funny because there's no default gear.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:And it was sort of amazing.
Marc:And I have deep nostalgia and feelings about a lot of the dudes.
Marc:And Attell, who else was around?
Marc:Mark Cohen, Keith was there.
Marc:But I used to make Attell leave the room when I got past at the cell.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I had to go on stage.
Guest:You know how he does like a two-man thing sometimes?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I do that all the time with all these comics.
Guest:We have a blast.
Guest:And with him, I just shut down.
Guest:My brain goes blank.
Guest:And he's like, what's going on with you?
Guest:I'm like, ah, I got nothing.
Marc:Yeah, because I was so emotional and weird.
Marc:And the cellar was always weird for me because I was sort of angry.
Marc:And it wasn't always intentional.
Marc:And in Man, he would always come down.
Marc:Like when he was alive, you'd be on stage.
Marc:And he'd come and look around all panicked.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like, are they laughing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, oh, my God.
Guest:That's what scared me about the clubs was there was money involved.
Guest:It was a business.
Guest:I like a shit bar in the middle of nowhere where, you know, the lights are barely on because you felt comfortable.
Guest:There were no stakes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're letting me tell my dumb zingers on stage, nobody should be paying for this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, but I mean, you learn and you learn about like what the seller is and what Gotham was and what, you know, the comic strip was.
Marc:And there's and you'd run around a stand up.
Marc:New York was another one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Boston Comedy Club, you know, all those places.
Marc:You know, that was when you kind of did that thing where you try to on a weekend night, you try to like line up.
Marc:four to six spots hell yeah and you do three different clubs and you're running around like fucking nuts yeah i miss that i guess ah the journey man it's all about the journey yeah man so you made it you did it i did all right you know it wasn't all about stand-up oddly you know it was you know it was the podcast at the end of the line there everything turned around and you know everything kind of came together yeah when i was 45 but isn't it weird how you almost you were at the end i kept hearing you say i almost got a starbucks job yeah
Marc:It wasn't a Starbucks job.
Marc:I didn't know what the fuck I would do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's the only thing I had to go back to.
Marc:I haven't had a day job since I worked in a restaurant in 87.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Which is so funny.
Guest:They were like, could you imagine going out and there's people doing that for their whole life?
Marc:And we're like, could you imagine?
Marc:But yeah, but it's like, no, but I mean, it's like, what am I prepared to do outside of show business?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Nothing.
Marc:Nothing.
Marc:We're skillless.
Marc:I never set out to write for other people.
Marc:I never set out to be a showrunner.
Marc:I'm not a TV writer.
Marc:I'm a fucking stand up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So it's not like I can be like, I'm just going to get on a writing crew.
Marc:I don't know how to do that.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:You can do it.
Marc:No, yeah.
Marc:Well, now that I know what it is, you sit around in a room with 10 other guys.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's free bagels.
Guest:Seems pretty good.
Guest:And they get paid handsomely, might I add.
Guest:But yeah, no, I know what you mean.
Guest:But that's the annoying thing when people go, oh, you work an hour a night.
Guest:Oh, it must be.
Guest:Oh, you do a podcast.
Guest:You talk for a living.
Guest:It's like, fuck you.
Guest:I did 12 years of grinding and no money.
Guest:We sacrifice our life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:We roll the dice with our future because most people, they're just sort of like, what do I got to do to get the security?
Marc:I need to feel like I can deal with life.
Marc:We go like, yeah, fuck that.
Marc:We're going to try this thing.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Because we have no choice.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I did a Gotham asked me to do some kind of Q&A thing.
Guest:We're like, hey, you're doing okay now.
Guest:Talk to some young comics and answer questions.
Guest:I was like, all right, sure.
Guest:I'll talk comedy.
Guest:So it was five in the afternoon.
Guest:Everybody's in a suit.
Guest:And I'm standing behind a desk on the stage.
Guest:And they go...
Guest:Raise their hand.
Guest:I go, yeah, what's up?
Guest:He goes, how do I get an agent?
Guest:I'm like, well, you got to get good first.
Guest:How do I get good?
Guest:You got to go up and do a bunch of mics.
Guest:How long does that take?
Guest:It's like, well, you're already out.
Guest:You're done.
Guest:I got two dogs.
Guest:How do I make time to do comedy and have a job and work with my dogs?
Guest:I'm like, you're out too.
Guest:If you're worried about the dog, you're fucked.
Guest:But they want this shortcut and they all hated me by the end of it.
Marc:Yeah, I had a hard time.
Marc:I did that.
Marc:I was asked to do one of these fucking... I'm sort of mad that I didn't see it before.
Marc:One of these kind of podcast festivals, which was really put together by fucking hack radio consultants who were pushing this idea that podcasting was some sort of entrepreneurial venture that anyone could do.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they had all these booths of people selling microphones and...
Marc:podcast equipment and all these fucking, you know, sad people that thought this was going to be their big life changer, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And they wanted me to be the keynote speaker.
Marc:So, like, I did a few of these where I was sort of like, look, there's no guarantees.
Marc:I know.
Marc:This isn't Sally Mae.
Marc:No, you can't fucking, like, you know, I'm lucky.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My timing once in my life worked out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I had a certain skill set.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I don't know if any of you have that.
Marc:You can't get into this thinking you're going to make money.
Marc:Are you out of your mind?
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so that was a short-lived sidebar career, the keynote speaker.
Marc:I didn't last.
Guest:They'll find out soon enough.
Guest:But, yeah, that's weird how people just think that.
Guest:Oh, this is an option.
Marc:But it also speaks to that thing where we live in this world where it's like all of a sudden everyone thinks they can do this, which is fucking annoying because if they do it once, then they think they can do it.
Marc:And I don't want to be that guy.
Marc:It's like, can you do an hour and a half anywhere?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Anytime.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Can you do the job?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:No, I think you're onto something here.
Guest:I'm with you.
Marc:But it's weird because, like, what do we- You can't tell somebody that.
Marc:But we can't be sitting here going, like, you don't know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:You're that old guy?
Marc:It's like, what do you got, 20 minutes maybe?
Marc:Yeah, boomer.
Marc:Keep working at it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But now I haven't done it in a year.
Marc:I don't even know what I got.
Marc:I don't even know if I can do it anymore.
Marc:I got to get up on stage and do the stand-up and figure out where I'm at now after a year of this and grief.
Guest:You're going to get back up and you're going to love it again.
Marc:I've done it like half my fucking life.
Marc:I would assume that it's going to come back.
Guest:No, but I mean that feeling I'm saying, that joy, that euphoria, that fun.
Guest:You think so?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's coming back.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I'd just gotten that.
Marc:It took me 20, 30 years to get that, to actually have that.
Marc:I was faking it for 30 years.
Guest:But you had some killer Conans, man.
Guest:What did you do, Conan, 50 times?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I've seen them all.
Marc:Yeah, well, I mean, some of them were okay.
Guest:A lot of them were.
Guest:The young girl joke is great.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That's a great joke.
Marc:You know what's funny about that?
Marc:What, the teenage girl joke?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I love that joke, and I did that on Letterman.
Marc:And I got an email a few years back.
Marc:Uh-oh.
Marc:Somebody saying, you have that clip up on your website.
Marc:It's not a good look.
Marc:You might want to take it down.
Marc:Erase myself?
Marc:That's a great joke.
Marc:That joke holds up.
Marc:It may not be culturally appropriate right now for whatever reason, but the logic of the joke is tight.
Guest:The logic is tight.
Guest:The structure is good.
Guest:And that's the thing about jokes people don't get.
Guest:It's all mechanics.
Guest:I'm just saying this, and then I twist it with that.
Guest:It's not about the message.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, but I understand there's a message to it, but it's honest.
Marc:And it's like what you were saying in your special.
Marc:It's like, you know, if you're going to let the things that you think out of your head, even though you know that, you know, they may not be correct, that that is still what you're doing.
Marc:And it's part of our job to do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So so like the fact that that runs a risk, you know, we have to shoulder that.
Marc:But like I even when I think about, you know, when I think about that joke and when I think about what I first of all, I'm not going to try to revise history, my own history.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But then I really thought about that joke and I'm like, no, this this does this is not incorrect.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:That joke works.
Marc:But yeah, but it's like, you know, we all know innately, it's like, all right, this needs to be, I need to put this out there because it's something in me.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And it's not everybody's life, but it is a real human feeling that a lot of people keep inside of themselves.
Marc:Of course, of course.
Marc:But that's sort of our job.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Is to release that valve, and it's tricky now.
Guest:I know, but I thought people liked when that vowel was released.
Guest:They do.
Guest:Why are you trying to attack the releaser?
Marc:Well, I'm not sure.
Marc:Like, there are certain things like, look, man, I mean, there are certain words I don't have to say and I can live my life.
Marc:Same.
Marc:And I'm okay with that.
Marc:Same.
Marc:If it hurts people, it hurts people.
Marc:And, you know, if that's like, you know, like...
Marc:Well, you know the words, but also there are some words that no matter how you frame it, even if you're making a joke about not saying the word, you're just kind of fucking with it.
Guest:Yeah, but that's fun.
Guest:It is fun.
Guest:And they like it too.
Guest:I mean, when you're a kid, you go, how do you say this in French?
Guest:How do you say that curse word?
Marc:I mean, that's where our brain goes.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:But it's a tricky thing to really weigh, like, is this really culturally problematic?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Is it worth do I want to die in that hill or do I want to keep doing it?
Marc:I hear you.
Marc:You know, so that's just part of our job, too.
Guest:Now, I guess I completely agree.
Guest:And but I think there's hills to die on.
Guest:And then there's we could do that all day where you go.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, that's going to get me in trouble.
Guest:So now we've lost every word.
Guest:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it's not a matter of trouble.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a matter of like, you know, because like oddly what's happening, I think culturally is that there's there's a good chunk of the country that would love for you to say fag all day long.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now.
Marc:So it really it's going to really depend on like, do you want to straddle both worlds?
Marc:Do you want to like it's going to come down to that you can literally go do the most heinous comedy performance.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know, like, you know, corpse fucking, you know, hanging Jews, whatever it is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You can do that and find a crowd.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So but so then it becomes like, so what's your moral universe?
Marc:Like, you know, like, dude, is there a balance here?
Marc:You don't want to be that guy.
Guest:Agree.
Guest:But can't there be context where you said that?
Guest:some fucked up thing but it's in the context of a joke or you're referencing someone else who said it of course so that's when it gets hairy because i'm like sometimes it sounds like you just want to win this and beat me instead of actually caring about justice or morality well yeah it's a it's a trigger thing yeah and it's me me me like hey i'm gonna change you i'm gonna i'm gonna be the hero instead of let me actually fix this problem
Marc:Or it's just their way of being heard.
Marc:But it's a victim mindset, right?
Marc:Yeah, which is very popular.
Marc:But it really is kind of weird.
Marc:There's plenty of places you will never get in trouble.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:But do you want to be part of that?
Guest:I know, I know.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Because, yeah, a lot of people are going all one way, and their career is really spiking from it.
Guest:But I don't want to do that.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:I like being a good guy.
Guest:I want to be nice and get along.
Marc:Well, I think that what you see there and I think that what I deal with too, it's that struggle.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:The struggle to be a good guy is funny.
Marc:I believe that.
Guest:Because we're not deep down.
Guest:Well, no one is.
Guest:I mean, we're all garbage.
Guest:Original sin or whatever you want to call it.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I think we all have, you know, it's like you said on the special is that we all have these things in our minds.
Marc:But, you know, I don't know if that requires a moral judgment.
Marc:Humans are complicated.
Marc:Yeah, we're complex.
Marc:But I think by, you know, if you really were to look at your behavior in the world, you are a good guy.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:I got you.
Marc:You're not an animal.
Guest:You're not a monster.
Guest:But you want to tell them that sometimes when they call you a monster for making a Down syndrome joke.
Guest:No, I'm not.
Guest:I just made a joke.
Guest:But they don't care.
Marc:Well, a lot of times they just want to be heard.
Marc:And you're like, I understand.
Guest:I'll keep that in mind.
Guest:Yeah, you go.
Guest:Or we can just not cater to the one lady who's furious out of 500.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you don't want her to call up 500 other ladies.
Marc:Yeah, you got that right.
Marc:That happens in a second on Twitter.
Marc:It's like, now there's 500 Karens.
Marc:And they're all watching your special.
Guest:Yeah, and they are leaving down thumbs.
Guest:Thumbs down.
Marc:I think you straddled the line well.
Marc:Thank you, man.
Marc:Good talking to you, man.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Guest:This was a treat.
Marc:You feel all right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Appreciate it.
Guest:Comedy.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Mark Norman, people.
Marc:Got real towards the end, didn't it?
Marc:We got there, didn't we?
Marc:His new special, Out to Lunch, can be seen on YouTube or at marknormandcomedy.com.
Marc:And his podcast, Tuesday with Stories, along with Joe List, you can get at podcasts, wherever you get them.
Marc:You know, podcasts.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Guitar time.
Guest:Boomer lives.
Guest:Monkey LaFonda.
Guest:All of them.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere.