Episode 122 - Jessi Klein
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Come on, let's do it.
Marc:Can we?
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuck, nears?
Marc:What the fuck, nicks?
Marc:What the fuck, knots is back.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:How is everything?
Marc:I am okay.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for joining me.
Marc:I'm out in my garage.
Marc:It's early here.
Marc:It's early for anybody, really.
Marc:I know that some of you wake up at ungodly hours, but I was up at 630.
Marc:I'm in the garage.
Marc:It's about 730, and I'm doing this.
Marc:I don't understand this.
Marc:I just got back from Cincinnati.
Marc:Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:I don't want to be confused.
Oh.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:Oh, I just, wait.
Marc:Yeah, I just shit my pants.
Marc:That's justcoffee.coop.
Marc:It'll do that.
Marc:It's that good.
Marc:Justcoffee.coop, available at wtfpod.com.
Marc:How's that for a hands-on plug?
Marc:Seconds into the show.
Marc:I'm going to San Francisco tonight.
Marc:That you should come see.
Marc:I hope you come.
Marc:I'm going to be at the Punchline tonight.
Marc:That's Thursday, the 11th and the 12th and the 13th.
Marc:And then on Monday, I'm in Pontiac, Michigan, which I know nothing about.
Marc:I got one email that said, hey, out of all the suburbs of Detroit, dude, that one...
Marc:I hope you don't get murdered.
Marc:Thanks for the heads up, buddy.
Marc:Nothing makes me feel more safe and excited for a show than to know that I'll be traveling alone, staying in a hotel.
Marc:I'm not sure what neighborhood it's in and that I might get murdered.
Marc:I appreciate that.
Marc:That might bring a little something to the performance.
Marc:That's all I need is more fear in my life.
Marc:Was just in Cincinnati at Go Bananas.
Marc:Had great shows.
Marc:Had a great time.
Marc:Had some friends in Cincinnati.
Marc:I know some of you know Ryan Singer's my buddy, and he's going to be opening for me up in San Francisco.
Marc:But, you know, I got out and about.
Marc:I mixed with the people.
Marc:Was out there in the Midwest.
Marc:It is the Midwest, isn't it?
Marc:I don't know, you know, exactly what people call themselves, Midwesterners.
Marc:But Ohio, it could have been bad, but it wasn't bad.
Marc:And I want to thank all the what-the-fuckers that came out and all the presents.
Marc:Some guy brought me a graphic novel of the Allen Ginsberg Howl.
Marc:A graphic novel and a pair of gloves with no fingers, which I happen to like a lot.
Marc:I don't know where he knew or how that guy knew that I like gloves with no fingers, but now I got another pair.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you for all the mix CDs.
Marc:Thank you for all the guitar stuff, dude.
Marc:Some guy brought me some string cleaners, some picks, some strings, a mic, you know, the thing that goes on top of a mic, a thing, spongy thing.
Marc:Is that what it's called?
Marc:I think that's on the label.
Marc:Mic spongy thing for the top.
Marc:Windscreen.
Marc:Thank you for the chocolate-covered bacon.
Marc:Just what I always need my first night at a road gig.
Marc:So I'm going to come.
Marc:A woman brought me some homemade chocolate-covered bacon, and that was spectacular.
Marc:Now let's get to the case at hand.
Marc:Friday night, Cincinnati.
Marc:Ohio, go bananas.
Marc:I was doing a joke that was broadly political, folks, broadly, in the sense that it couldn't have pushed any real buttons.
Marc:And out of the drunken mouth of some fucking moron, I hear, you're a debt mongrel.
Marc:A debt mongrel.
Marc:A debt mongrel.
Marc:That is like... It's almost like he confused his anti-Semitic political swearer with just flat-out Nazi horrendous swearer.
Marc:It was an anti-Semitic hybrid, and it was really tough for me to process, but I seemed to be in a pretty giving mood, so...
Marc:I deconstructed his mistake and I basically instructed him that, you know, if he wants his his anti-Semitic message to be clear, he should choose either mongrel, which has no real political impact at all in the sense that it's just heinous and debt monger, which is a sort of a classic anti-Semitic slur for Jews, but has is a little more loaded when you're in a red state and the Tea Party had the success that it had.
Marc:So just a heads up to you, racist.
Marc:Don't consolidate your racial slurs.
Marc:Focus.
Marc:Pick one.
Marc:I'm all for poetic license, but the message was confused.
Marc:I think that there would have been more political power in terms of his ignorance to just call me a debt monger and then sort of tie me in with the liberal Jewish elite bankers, that whole thing, as opposed to throw mongrel in, because that just...
Marc:you know, then your integrity as just an angry, you know, racist patriot is clouded with the fact that you're using Nazi language, mongrel race, that would be, to attack me.
Marc:So, you know, at any point, all it turned out to be was just...
Marc:just a broadly anti-Semitic.
Marc:And I just think it could have been more political.
Marc:That's a heads up to you racists.
Marc:Now, moving on with the Cincinnati experience.
Marc:The Cincinnati chili thing is bizarre.
Marc:But and I don't know if any of you have traveled there, but they're very proud of it.
Marc:Those.
Marc:But some people hate it.
Marc:Some people look at it as a liability to their state.
Marc:And I will discuss another liability to not their state, but to a state close by.
Marc:But Cincinnati chili is this unique thing.
Marc:And they'll tell you to eat it.
Marc:They being the good people of Ohio.
Marc:And I've eaten it once before, but this time I really focused.
Marc:Because, you know, I've been watching my fucking diet just trying to stay a little bit healthy because I want to try to live a little longer than I might anticipate by not clogging my heart with lard of some kind.
Marc:But the Cincinnati chili, it's a weird sort of meat chili made with chocolate.
Marc:There's chocolate in it and I believe cinnamon and some cumin.
Marc:And you can get it, you know, I think two ways, one way, three ways, four ways, five ways.
Marc:I just it seemed like the max was six ways.
Marc:So what you get is a bed of spaghetti covered with chili, beans, onions, cheese and little fried jalapeno wings rings.
Marc:Where did they come from?
Marc:Some people seem to know what these are, but these little breaded fried jalapeno rings were probably one of the greatest inventions.
Marc:They're just little fried wheels, little wheels of jalapeno.
Marc:And I think arguably equally as big and important invention as the actual wheel.
Marc:They were fucking spectacular.
Marc:Those were some high points of Cincinnati.
Marc:I had a good time all around.
Marc:And even what you would consider to be a low point, I went to the big creation museum.
Marc:Now, I'm not going to get thoroughly into it because I recorded the whole thing.
Marc:And I'm hoping to build an episode around it.
Marc:So I will flesh it out a little more.
Marc:But I will say that I went down there with Ryan Singer and Jeff Tate.
Marc:and Ryan's friend Megan.
Marc:We drove down, and this is a pilgrimage.
Marc:It's in Petersburg, Kentucky.
Marc:It's about a half hour away from Cincinnati.
Marc:And I knew, look, I knew it's 25 bucks to get into this place.
Marc:And I'm not stingy.
Marc:I'm not a debt mongrel.
Marc:And I knew that that money would go directly towards promoting cultural retardation through propaganda based in a Christian ideology.
Marc:That is not really has nothing to do with with Christianity, but but it's it's it is what it is.
Marc:And I knew the money was going to that, but I've spent money on worse things.
Marc:You know, I do buy.
Marc:I'm not as clear as I should be on companies in terms of buying.
Marc:You know, I tend to buy things from L.L.
Marc:Bean.
Marc:I'm not sure where they're at.
Marc:But nonetheless, so we're driving.
Marc:I even offered to pay for these dudes because I didn't really want to go alone.
Marc:And I've got to be honest with you, it is a big, beautiful museum down there in Petersburg, Kentucky, the Creation Museum.
Marc:And it is worth going to.
Marc:There was a lot of things going on.
Marc:There's part of me that's like, I want to see how the enemy thinks.
Marc:I want to see who these people are.
Marc:I want to get in there and make a fool out of them.
Marc:But I was amazed.
Marc:Millions of dollars went into this thing.
Marc:There's animatronics.
Marc:There's displays.
Marc:There's architectural models.
Marc:There's scientific pictures.
Marc:And without getting too far into it, the entire thrust of the Creation Museum is to get people to entertain or accept or confuse them into...
Marc:believing that dinosaurs and human beings cohabitated.
Marc:Not little dinosaurs, big ones, big dinosaurs.
Marc:That is really the entire thrust, is to dismantle the evolutionary science and the carbon dating science and the theories that have sort of built the education around the evolution of species and the dating of artifacts and rocks.
Marc:They want to really, all this effort, and they do it to kids.
Marc:It's all designed so it's very kid-friendly.
Marc:They just really want you to walk out there and say, I don't know, it seems like Adam could have pet a dinosaur.
Marc:I mean, because they didn't eat meat then.
Marc:They were all fruit eaters.
Marc:They just want you to walk out with that space closed up in your head.
Marc:The gap between man...
Marc:And dinosaur, which is millions and millions of years.
Marc:They want you to leave with that gap closed, which would make it more logical, their argument that the world is a few weeks old.
Marc:That's the entire agenda of it.
Marc:There's no real religion in it other than historical religion related to the Bible.
Marc:And the thing that really fascinated me was I have to assume that most of the people there were people that couldn't even accept that our president is from this country.
Marc:Now, I may be generalizing and I may be judging them, but I'm assuming that a lot of people could not accept our president, but were willing to accept that we romped with T-Rexes at one point in our history.
Marc:that's interesting to me and i have to be honest with you and i'll i've got more you know stories about this but i want to save it for the uh for the creation museum podcast uh but i didn't leave angry this was the weirdest thing that happened to me there was that i did not leave the creation museum angry i left gloriously embarrassed and
Marc:for our country, but proud to be an American because I realized driving away from that thing that it couldn't happen anywhere else.
Marc:Yeah, it's dangerous.
Marc:Yeah, it saddens me that this ideological and propagandistic momentum is alive in this country, but...
Marc:But I don't know, you know, the fight is ours to fight on both sides.
Marc:And, you know, we live in a country that enables this kind of stuff.
Marc:And a lot of money went into it.
Marc:And apparently, which is not, I'm not defending it, but there was a... Noah, you know, apparently had a Russian accent.
Marc:It wasn't unusual for Noah to refer to talking Noah, to refer to dinosaurs as dragons, you know, for the kids.
Marc:And, you know, it's dangerous stuff, but...
Marc:It was very well done, dangerous stuff.
Marc:on the show today jesse klein uh many of you may know her as a stand-up she's also a writer uh from michael and michael she did a little stint on snl was once a comedy central executive which i need to talk to her about uh a good friend and we've had our problems like i do with some people but not deep problems and she's lovely and she's going to be on the show today i get a lot of emails like you know we're the chicks we're the women don't you like women mark maron how come not more women
Marc:Well, Jesse Klein is a woman and and she's swell.
Marc:So that's happening.
Marc:Quick email.
Marc:This is from Corey in San Francisco.
Marc:Hi, Mark.
Marc:Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Marc:So a few weeks ago, you did a show in Vancouver and a guy sent an email telling you that.
Marc:He was blowing off a camping trip with his girlfriend to see you.
Marc:Then after half a dozen jokes about her fucking someone else, you realize that he wasn't in the audience and the happy ending was blown.
Marc:Well, this weekend, I'm blowing off sex to come see you.
Marc:Are we under attack?
Marc:Do you hear that?
Marc:Everybody under the desk!
Marc:Everybody down!
Marc:I had plane tickets to go home to Ohio to see a girl.
Marc:But when I heard you were going to be in town, I immediately bought tickets to the show, not realizing that my airline tickets were not refundable.
Marc:And although 300 bucks is a lot of fucking money to me, my best friend is in town and you are too.
Marc:I'm choosing you over good pussy, Mark.
Marc:Be proud of what you do.
Marc:And including the tickets to your show, the weed I'm going to buy and hate, and the unrefunded plane tickets, I'm going to spend like $400-plus to see this show.
Marc:This is all true, by the way.
Marc:So, hey, I was hoping if you wanted to prove your loyalty to the fans that care about you, maybe you could give a shout-out to me.
Marc:Maybe say hi.
Marc:You know, quite honestly, Corey, I feel that I should blow you.
Marc:That, you know, you put a lot of money into this, and I just...
Marc:You know, if you want, you know, I mean, you say right here, good pussy, $400.
Marc:If you want it, let's see how it goes.
Marc:You know, maybe we'll make out after the show.
Marc:Would that be enough?
Marc:It's not my thing, but it's there's a lot of pressure here.
Marc:OK, so make sure you introduce yourself to me.
Marc:All right, break out those cookies.
Marc:Now that we're on mic, I think it's important that Jews break cookies on the mic.
Guest:But you have to.
Marc:All right, give me.
Marc:I did a thing.
Marc:Oh, you did a thing.
Marc:Oh, she's a little, kind of a confused, sad rabbit.
Marc:Sorry, I had to cancel those other times.
Guest:Sorry, I had to cancel those.
Guest:other times.
Marc:You're trying to get in and make nice.
Guest:I am trying to make nice.
Marc:This is what Jews do.
Guest:This is what Jews do, although I will say that it took me so long to get here that I was like, I'm going to have to crack open those cookies.
Marc:I'm going to have to cancel again and eat the cookies.
Guest:I'll just be found on Eagle Rock Boulevard.
Marc:There's other ones under there.
Guest:That was just for the Jewish presentation possible.
Marc:Is this poppy or prune?
Guest:I think it's prune.
Guest:But then there's more tasty things at the bottom.
Marc:There's got to be a rugla in here.
Marc:I know it.
Guest:Fuck.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yay.
Marc:Rugla Central.
Guest:There's like basically.
Guest:Rugla.
Guest:There's a synagogue in the box.
Marc:There's a synagogue after services.
Marc:This is the part of the synagogue that we all looked forward to.
Guest:Yeah, this was the part.
Marc:Soon we'll have these.
Marc:I'll just touch every cookie in here.
Marc:This one looks like a cinnamon apricot.
Marc:You want to eat one.
Guest:I will.
Guest:I will.
Guest:Actually, I'll start now.
Marc:But you're not all Jew-y.
Marc:Aren't you half Jew?
Guest:Are you kidding me?
Guest:No.
Guest:Mark, I'm like shocked.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I can remember if you were one of those half-Jews that calls himself a Jew.
Guest:Jesse Klein with like a... I know.
Guest:The most beautiful schnauzer in New York.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:He looked Jew.
Guest:Jew face.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Did you grow up in New York City?
Marc:I can't remember.
Guest:I did grow up in New York.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:Your parents have that place forever.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And so you live next door to your parents in an apartment.
Guest:I live next door to my parents in an apartment.
Marc:You still?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That must be horrendous.
Guest:I feel like it's more horrendous for them.
Guest:I think like.
Marc:Because you're like, what's for dinner?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's in the fridge?
Guest:Literally once a week I'm just like, what are you guys doing?
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And do you go there and go in the fridge?
Marc:You've got your own keys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And is your room over there?
Marc:The one you grew up in?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Do you ever go in there and curl up with your animals?
Guest:What's in your old room?
Guest:Well, I mean, keep in mind that I grew up, I feel like when you tell people that you grew up in Manhattan, they're not bad, right?
Guest:There's like a chocolatey one.
Guest:I feel like when people when you tell people you grew up in Manhattan, you know, or downtown, they picture that you're sitting in like a 10,000 square foot loft with like streaming sunlight and your parents are like playing bongos and your parents are the Kennedys or something like early Kennedys.
Guest:But it was a very, very tiny apartment.
Guest:So.
Marc:Or else I think you grew up on the Upper West Side in some sort of huge floor through.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:A classic nine or whatever.
Marc:Yeah, a classic nine.
Marc:Whatever the fuck they call those.
Guest:I don't know which number is the classic number.
Marc:I don't either, but I know that.
Guest:Classic six?
Marc:Yeah, I just know that there are people that live in those places in New York.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you walk by and you look in their windows.
Marc:Do you ever have that in New York where you walk by and you just see like...
Marc:Like a corner of a bookshelf and a plant and a window and you're like, oh, my life would be so much better.
Guest:You see like a chandelier and like a very loved fern.
Marc:Yeah, and you're like, that's where I need to live.
Marc:Everything works out in that apartment.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Those are white people.
Marc:And now, what are you doing out here?
Marc:You're pitching things?
Guest:I'm pitching things.
Marc:So you go into a room with some executives.
Guest:I go in a room.
Marc:You go, hey.
Guest:Yeah, hi.
Guest:And then, you know, it's like.
Marc:We love you.
Marc:You have like.
Marc:We love you.
Marc:Wait, wait.
Marc:Here's Josh.
Marc:Josh.
Marc:Josh.
Marc:Josh, get in here.
Marc:Yeah, Josh is here.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Sorry I'm late.
Guest:Sorry I'm late.
Guest:Do you want this pink berry?
Yeah.
Guest:And then there's, like, a funny, like.
Marc:And they all sit there with these weird smiles while you tell them what your idea is.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you get laughed in the room?
Guest:But there's always, like, the awkward transition from banter to the pitch where it's like.
Guest:Okay, who?
Guest:So, all right, I guess we're starting.
Guest:And it's, like, it's always, like, a very hard break hit.
Guest:It's never flashed.
Marc:It's all sociable, and now all of a sudden, like, all right.
Guest:Okay, it's basically like, so we're done pretending that we like each other, so start talking.
Marc:Right, and they have people come in all day long.
Marc:All day long, you're just one of a parade of people.
Marc:It's like, bring the clowns in.
Guest:Let them dance.
Guest:I remember years in, well, years in, well.
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:Plural years, years and years ago, I was pitching this other thing.
Guest:And I went and the first pitch I had was at CBS.
Guest:And, you know, it was like pitch season, you know.
Guest:And I was like going in with my little posse.
Guest:And then someone was coming out the door with their posse.
Guest:And I just remember as they walked out the door, I heard the guy go, nailed it.
Guest:And I just knew he hadn't nailed it.
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Guest:I was like, that guy did not nail it at all.
Marc:You don't want to mention names?
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Guest:Some rando.
Guest:I have no idea.
Marc:A rando comic?
Guest:I mean, who knows who it was?
Guest:I genuinely don't know.
Marc:Now, okay, let's get right down to it.
Guest:Now we're doing the exact same thing.
Guest:So let's start.
Marc:Now, I've got no beef with you.
Marc:I know you canceled a while.
Marc:And I did, for transparency's sake, I said, fuck her.
Marc:I mean, this is twice.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It was bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, on two days notice, you know, and in my mind, I'm like, low priority, the WTF.
Guest:No, high priority.
Guest:I just drove.
Guest:I just risked my life to get here.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:It's tough.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With the Indians and whatnot.
Guest:Well, for me, driving is just a dicey.
Guest:It's a dicey proposal because you grew up in New York.
Marc:And when did you get your license?
Guest:I got my license after I moved to L.A.
Guest:So I spent a year of not driving.
Marc:When the fuck were you here?
Guest:I lived here from 2005 to 2008.
Marc:I didn't hear from you.
Guest:I didn't know you were here.
Guest:I didn't hear from you either.
Marc:You didn't know I was here from 2005 to 2008.
Guest:I think we've known each other a long time, and I feel like no matter what city we're in, we see each other with the same frequency, which is like every six months.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, you know, I tried to make that different, but whatever.
Guest:Marc Maron.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:Nothing.
Marc:Oh, come on.
Marc:I think you knew how much I was in love with you.
Guest:Ha, ha, ha.
Marc:When you were a child.
Guest:When I was a child.
Marc:Working at Comedy Central.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Mark, I think I sent you an incredibly honest, nice email.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:Yeah, because I think immediately after my wife left me, I'm like, Jesse, what's happening?
Marc:What do you say you and I start a really horrendous, dysfunctional relationship?
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:I'm prime.
Marc:I'm fucking brokenhearted and angry.
Marc:Isn't that up your tree?
Guest:Yeah, now.
Guest:You did send me.
Guest:I licked my paw, and then I brushed my paw against my ear.
Marc:Yeah, and then you wrote me an email saying, I don't think that would be a very good idea.
Guest:But it was, here's the thing.
Guest:It is genuinely, genuinely.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I have always looked up to you.
Marc:No.
Guest:A lot.
Guest:Oh, let's not.
Guest:Come on.
Marc:Let's not spiral.
Marc:I can take it.
Guest:Let's not spiral down the stairs.
Guest:I can take it.
Guest:And I feel like it would be very weird.
Guest:Yes, you had just gotten divorced and you immediately were like, hi, Jesse.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Which is, I think, a thing that divorce guys do.
Marc:I forgot about that.
Guest:It was really literally...
Guest:it was very very soon after like you had a mark on your wedding finger yeah like an imprint was still there it was like still cooling like a pie yeah like a pie on a windowsill i appreciate that you said that it was the right thing to do because i obviously i'm attracted to you're an attractive person it would be very easy for me to have like a to be like yeah i'm gonna yeah i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this well i wasn't gonna say do this but you said do this let's see if you can ruin my life
Marc:Things are going pretty well for me.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:A place for everything and everything in its place, and now it's time to have sex with Marc Maron.
Marc:Yeah, that'll be a good idea.
Guest:Yeah, I have this little Jenga tower stacked up, and now I'm going to just pull this plug.
Marc:I want to get into that bus.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The sex with Marc Maron bus.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But this is weird, though.
Marc:But going back...
Marc:Like, there was some weird thing about, for me, like, because you were working at Comedy Central.
Guest:I worked there for a long time.
Marc:When you were, like, young.
Guest:I was very young.
Marc:And you were a talent executive.
Guest:I was a talent development executive.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, she's out doing comedy.
Marc:And then there was a period there where there was some crossover.
Guest:There was a double life.
Guest:It was so weird.
Marc:And there was a period there where it was sort of like, she's a double agent.
Guest:I was a double agent.
Guest:I was from Russia.
Marc:Did you feel that?
Guest:Yeah, I felt very weird about it.
Guest:I did it for too long, but it was weird.
Marc:But you would take meetings with comics and sit there behind that desk and have them pitching at you, and then you'd be at the club later.
Guest:Well, it would be like they'd pitch me, and I'd sort of be judging it, and I'd have to be like, well, and then afterwards I'd be like, can I do a spot on your show?
Guest:It was weird.
Marc:But did you feel resentment from them?
Guest:I mean, I I I don't think I ever felt resentment, but I think I was because everyone's very nice.
Guest:But I think I was very I was very aware that that would be a potentially justifiable thing for people to feel or at least to feel weird.
Marc:What were you doing at Comedy Central?
Marc:I mean, how'd you get that job?
Marc:Why was that?
Marc:Why that job?
Guest:Well, I'll tell you.
Marc:How old were you again?
Marc:19?
Marc:20?
Guest:I was 13.
Guest:I was like a child laborer.
Marc:Right after your bar mitzvah?
Guest:I was putting socks together.
Guest:I was putting hangers on socks.
Marc:That job was bar mitzvah present.
Guest:It was, yeah.
Guest:Instead of a nose job, I got a talent executive job.
Guest:Um, no, I, I, um, I'd always really loved comedy.
Guest:I was like a big comedy nerd and I always wanted to do comedy.
Guest:But, um, you know, when you're a kid, I don't know what your thing was, but that seemed just like, well, that's not a thing.
Guest:How would I possibly do that?
Marc:I wish I had thought that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You thought it was a thing and you started much earlier than I did.
Marc:I started, yeah, I guess in college or right after college.
Guest:Um, but I, you know, my, that was not like a, my dad was a probation officer and my mom was a public school teacher.
Marc:And, um, so you, it was either jail or something more disciplined.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it was, it was more like, um,
Guest:You know, it felt like we didn't have like a ton.
Guest:I don't want to get like Dickens about it, but it was, you know, there was a lot of pressure to do well and to be financially secure.
Guest:And I still I still fuck that up because I didn't.
Guest:It wasn't like I went to school to like be a banker or a lawyer.
Guest:I was like, so, you know, to be financially secure, I was an art history major at Vassar College.
Guest:Just really button that shit down.
Marc:Okay, so here you are, working at Comedy Central, Vassar educated.
Guest:I'm Vassar educated, so I didn't know what I was going to do.
Marc:You're this pretty Jewish girl, all smarty pants, a history major, working in a Viacom company that produces shit.
Guest:Well, I'll say it, just to... That was the old Comedy Central.
Marc:Of course, the new Comedy Central is very good.
Guest:Oh, it's 2.0 over there.
Marc:Tosh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but just because people do ask me this question, I got the job because I was working at a video store at Allen's Alley on 9th Avenue.
Guest:If you ever need... They're very good.
Guest:It's very... On 23rd and 9th.
Guest:Yeah, I know where that is.
Guest:You can also get vintage furniture in there.
Marc:Oh, nice.
Marc:A lot of people... That makes sense.
Guest:If you want fiesta wear... Well, it's really funny because the guy who owns it... Is it an old queen?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:He's...
Marc:Why is he a pièce to wear?
Guest:He likes antiques.
Guest:But his love of antiques, it's his video story, and he has a very cool movie.
Guest:It's like Kim's without the attitude.
Guest:He's very nice.
Guest:But then his love of antiques took over.
Guest:it's sort of greater it seems like than is love of the store so there would be times where like someone's like where's jumanji or something i'm like yeah it's behind the armoire like everything literally the new release section is behind like a very large heavy be careful yeah be careful that's real
Guest:And we used to rent.
Guest:There was... I don't know.
Guest:I don't want to... Well, whatever.
Guest:It's in Chelsea, so a lot of gay guys... It's a family video store.
Marc:For gay guys?
Guest:No, for families.
Guest:But then there's a large gay clientele because of where it's located.
Guest:But because it's a family video store...
Guest:And this isn't just for gay guys.
Guest:Whoever would be renting porn, whether gay or straight, they couldn't say the name of the title.
Guest:They had to write it on a piece of paper with a little golf pencil that we had at the counter.
Guest:So someone would come in, they'd peruse the section.
Guest:And I am, at that point, 19 or 20 years old.
Guest:I worked there during college and then right after.
Guest:And so they'd come up and hand me a piece of paper that would say,
Guest:butt mops you know and like butt mops too and then like electric buttaloo and i would have to go back and i look and the funny thing i mean i'm not really a porn viewer but i guess to me it would be all the same but like butt mops would always be out or whatever it was called like there was popular ones it's like we don't have casino and we don't have butt mops oh
Marc:When you were doing that, I always wondered that back when you had to rent porn and you just, you didn't have to get it for free.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Dirty or porn.
Marc:Now, did you like judge the guy?
Marc:How do you say, so I can enjoy having fun, you guys.
Guest:I mean, it was like amusing.
Guest:I wasn't really in judgment of anybody.
Guest:It was more, I felt, I mean, I still, like I'm 35 now.
Guest:I still can't buy condoms.
Guest:Like I, you know, I can't, just like that feeling of like someone staring at you.
Guest:So I felt bad.
Guest:Like, I would feel, I was very aware of not, like, I was very good at being stone-faced.
Marc:You can't buy condoms?
Guest:No.
Marc:So what do you do?
Marc:You send someone else?
Guest:Just raw dog, Mark.
Marc:Bareback.
Guest:Just bareback.
Marc:All the way.
Guest:Just, you know what?
Guest:Life's about risk, Mark.
No.
Marc:So you can't buy condoms.
Marc:I can't buy condoms.
Guest:I'm ashamed.
Guest:I'm ashamed.
Guest:I'm still ashamed.
Guest:Like my whole act is sort of about like sex stuff and I can't, I just feel, I don't know.
Guest:I also think it's the guy's job.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I feel like.
Marc:But what if they don't have condoms?
Marc:Are you like, no, I'm not going to fuck you.
Guest:It depends on who it is.
Guest:Bill Clinton, fine.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Do what you need to do.
Marc:Do what you need to do.
Marc:I don't care.
Marc:Have a good time.
Marc:I'll never tell a song.
Marc:Of course not.
Guest:Very well behaved.
Guest:No, I don't know.
Guest:I feel like women, you know, by the time we see you, we have worked so freaking hard.
Guest:We've spent so much money.
Guest:Our lives are generally worse than yours.
Guest:All our, you know.
Marc:What are you talking about?
Guest:Well, women make 75 cents on the dollar, all that stuff.
Guest:I'm just saying that guys, like.
Marc:You don't run in the regular world.
Marc:You're not part of the regular world.
Guest:I am in the regular world.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:I just drove to Eagle Rock.
Guest:You're in show business.
Marc:You're in show business.
Guest:I am barely in show business.
Marc:You're in show business.
Marc:You hang around with show business people.
Marc:Responsible, creative types.
Guest:Makes it sound like it's me.
Marc:I'm including guys with beards.
Guest:Ben Vereen is my best friend.
Guest:Did you fuck Ben Vereen?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did he have a condom?
Marc:Did Ben Vereen bring a condom to your house?
Guest:He has one always on.
Guest:That's the kind of guy he is.
Guest:I barely know who that is.
Marc:That seems crazy that you're defending this posture that it's a guy's job because women make less money to buy condoms?
Guest:No, it's not about the finance.
Guest:I'm just saying we have the things we do.
Guest:I'm going to wax stuff.
Guest:I'm going to go to the gym.
Marc:Go ahead, sorry.
Marc:Yeah, you're going to go to the gym.
Guest:I live in the world.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Beast.
Guest:No, it's a constant battle.
Marc:I heard you tell a story about that, too.
Marc:Do you do a story on stage about waxing?
Guest:I talk about pubic hair.
Marc:What is that about?
Guest:It's just like I don't know what I'm supposed to do with it anymore.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:And I don't know what guys' expectations are.
Marc:What's your expectation?
Marc:Do you want to talk about it?
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:You literally just pull down a Murphy bed and lie on your side.
Marc:Let's see what you got.
Okay.
Marc:Take it off.
Guest:So many Murphy beds come down.
Marc:You get over there.
Marc:I'll be over here.
Guest:So many mirrors.
Marc:Holding a hat over my crotch.
Guest:So many hand mirrors and Murphy beds just appeared in this little place.
Marc:I'm going to redirect.
Marc:I'm going to redesign the garage to accommodate this sex palace we're talking about.
Marc:No, I mean, I think I like a little hair there myself.
Guest:You do?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Good.
Marc:We good?
Guest:What?
Guest:Well, I just, I mean, here's the thing.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's like, you know,
Guest:I, I am old enough that I remember.
Marc:Having hair?
Guest:Like, it's just like you're, you know, over time, it's like there's like a tipping point for like what is expected.
Guest:And like, I remember, I mean, I grew up in the village or whatever, so I might have been a little bit more pushed.
Guest:But in general, like when I was a kid and you look at women, like no one like de facto had like a pedicure.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And now it's like if you don't have your nails done, you're like a beast.
Guest:And in thongs.
Guest:When are those decisions made?
Guest:And with pubic hair,
Guest:Like, I remember on Weekend Update, they did, like, a very funny thing about that.
Guest:And Amy Poehler said, like, pubic, women's pubic hair used to look like a New York pizza slice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just, like, the biggest triangle.
Guest:And, you know, it's funny because I Googled, I Google image, like, those naked photos of Madonna and Playboy, like her Playboy spread.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's not her Playboy spread.
Guest:the one they found from when she before she was a nude model just for an artist right right and her pubic hair goes from her it is like she's sitting on a hair saddle yeah it goes it is a hot and you're and it's funny because you're like we all see it's like she obviously i can't imagine has like a stitch of hair left on her but it's like we know yeah like that you've had that you'll you're it's always there yeah the roots are always there internal
Marc:Yeah, I find that if it's a full shaved thing, that sometimes, depending on the situation, might be a little too much information.
Guest:Yeah, really?
Guest:Like a turtle farm?
Marc:Well, I mean, I like it, but it just seems awkward on a woman of a certain age to not have any pubic hair.
Marc:Yeah, it starts... Yeah, leave something there.
Marc:Well, and it's all... I mean, I guess from... You don't have to have stripes, but maybe one stripe.
Marc:Star David.
Marc:One big stripe.
Marc:Star David for the peeps, the tribe.
Marc:Ha ha!
Marc:uh i just think it's i don't know it feels a little weird if somebody if i would it's hard to feel like if a guy is into someone having no hair it's like the child thing it's like weird yeah i don't ever think of that though i've heard that before that there's but you know let's let's be honest you know anyone over 30 who's got a shaved pussy you're not going to say like oh my god you're 12 yeah i mean this is not going to happen
Guest:I guess it's not going to happen, but it's still... We're going to be like, nice try.
Marc:Could you do something?
Guest:Add something to that, please?
Guest:There's like a spinny hat, like a propeller hat on it.
Guest:It's trying so hard to be young.
Guest:I think it's... Like there's like a Catholic school girl skirt hanging.
Marc:Well, that's not so bad.
Marc:If you add the skirt, then I... How do we get on this?
Guest:I don't want to be this person.
Guest:Whatever, I guess I am.
Marc:That talks about this?
Guest:Well, it's just we know we've been into it for a while.
Marc:You do talk about sex a lot on stage now.
Marc:I do.
Guest:I do.
Marc:When did that shift occur?
Marc:Well, because you used to be really smart and family, you know, and you're sort of like a comfortable nerd.
Marc:And all of a sudden it's like, there's Jesse potty mouth.
Marc:Jesse talking about her pussy.
Marc:No, I'm kidding.
Guest:That's not true.
Marc:It's not true at all.
Marc:You do smart pussy material.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I feel like, well, like Nick Kroll used to call it like he at one point called me the dirty nerdy.
Yeah.
Marc:Dirty nerdy.
Guest:Dirty nerdy.
Guest:And I was like, yeah.
Guest:And then I feel like I've been trying to do a thing where I'm like, people say that I'm a sexy librarian, but I feel more like a bookish whore.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:We've gotten very funny over the years.
Guest:Well, thanks, Mark.
Guest:There's a lot coming from you.
Guest:It took me a long time.
Guest:I'm just starting.
Marc:Well, there was a point where it was sort of like, you know, I'm not going to accept her.
Marc:She was an executive at Comedy Central.
Marc:That's what she is.
Marc:She's an executive.
Guest:She'll always be that.
Marc:Yeah, there's no way she's getting out of that.
Marc:And then you got funny.
Guest:Well, it took me a very long time to get out of that.
Guest:I worked there for seven years.
Marc:But, I mean, what...
Marc:When you went into work at comedy, you just wanted to be part of comedy in general?
Marc:Was always the intention to eventually write comedy?
Marc:Did you want to produce comedy?
Marc:I mean, what were you thinking over there?
Marc:I had no... What did you even fucking do there?
Marc:Shh.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Nothing.
Marc:I don't even know what a talent executive is.
Guest:No, I don't know.
Guest:Well, this was the thing.
Guest:I didn't either.
Guest:I was working at the video store, and then I was like, I spent a lot of money on college to be here.
Guest:And I was like, well, maybe I'll apply to graduate school, which is what you do when you have no idea what you're doing.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And then I was like, well, in the meantime, I'll temp.
Guest:And I started temping at Comedy Central in the HR department.
Guest:What happens in those?
Marc:See, I've never worked in an office ever.
Marc:What's a human resource?
Marc:I mean, what does it mean?
Marc:Because I need someone to explain it to me because I just really don't fucking know.
Guest:Well, I don't really know either.
Marc:I don't know how to behave in an office.
Marc:I don't know how an office works.
Guest:I didn't know.
Guest:It was all very new, but it was like apparently whatever happens there, their expectations are very low because as a temp...
Guest:Like, I remember my first day there, maybe they gave me two things to do in one day.
Guest:They were like, put this in this folder and then put the folder in the drawer.
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:Go sit down.
Guest:It's like Blair Witch, then go look in the corner, we'll kill the next one.
Guest:But I was like, so I put the thing in the folder and I put the folder in the drawer and they were like, thanks.
Guest:you so much you're amazing and i was like i am and uh just like you realize how like low expectations and then they went and told the talent department well no there is a girl here oh my god the word stunning comes to mind there no well i my job i was temping this is so like meta like mirror in a mirror uh i i was apparently like this girl was on vacation or out or dead or whatever i was temping for the girl who placed temps
Guest:Um, like when people from the company would call human resources because they needed a temp.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:I was the temp.
Guest:Like my friend, my friend described as like when you see a dog carrying its own leash in its mouth and you're like, it's walking itself.
Guest:Like that's what I did.
Guest:and so i worked there for a couple weeks i was just blowing their fucking minds and um and then one day ability to put folders in oh my god i learned what a pendaflex folder is it's the kind that hangs oh yeah yeah i have some of those on the floor four years of our history nice oh my god um so one day i got this call from um chris young and belisa balaban if you remember them
Marc:I remember Chris Young and I remember, yeah, I do remember them.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So those are people, so they called and they were like, hi, we, um, we just fired our assistant.
Guest:We need a temp.
Guest:And I, you know, I like conspiratorially look around.
Guest:I'm like, I'll do it.
Guest:And, um, but I didn't even know, I didn't even really know what development was.
Marc:But did you tell the people in the office, like, I just tempt myself out.
Marc:You need to hire another temp.
Marc:Temp dispatcher.
Guest:It was like the place just burst into flames from the weird energy.
Marc:They closed human resources.
Marc:It got too complicated for anyone to ever see.
Guest:It just got too like the internet started at that moment.
Guest:Yeah, and so I went up and I was temping for them.
Guest:And I sort of sniffed out.
Guest:I'm like, this feels better than human resources.
Guest:There's like tapes lying, VHS tapes lying around.
Guest:I can watch comedy.
Guest:there's everyone has a TV at their desk.
Guest:And, uh, I was like, this feels, this feels better.
Guest:And, um, but me and meanwhile, you know, I'm like basically showing in all the candidates for the job, like we're coming to interview.
Guest:And I worked there for a couple of weeks and it was like a similarly low expectation deal where, um,
Guest:they would tell me to do something massively simple yeah and i would you know can you put this peg in this hole yeah the round goes in the round yeah and then i would do it and they were just like brilliant oh my god oh my god you should be making television yeah you should be changing making decisions about who we smashing dreams yeah and um and so and then they yeah and i was like very quietly one day i was like
Guest:please uh oh i'd like to try you know it's like can you dance without your glasses on and uh and then you said that uh yeah yeah so i interviewed them and they and uh but i really did love comedy and actually i very clearly remember um you know like one of the things they were going to want to talk about was like what stand-ups do you like and i i did love stand-up but i had been in college and i hadn't been uh around you're busy experimenting with lesbians now
Guest:Trying to figure out.
Guest:I was touching on top.
Guest:Just once, just once.
Guest:More of a massage mark.
Guest:But we were friends and it was weird, but we're still friends.
Guest:She just had a baby.
Guest:You don't talk about it.
Guest:No, it's never been discussed.
Guest:There's a piece of paper buried in a vassar lawn.
Marc:So you tried.
Guest:What are you going to do?
Guest:The vow.
Guest:But...
Guest:I don't even know what that means.
Guest:But so I remember I was like, I better go see like, what's the cool standup show?
Guest:And I think like what I, you know, I just needed to know what the scene was in New York.
Guest:Cause I was like 21 and I just graduated.
Guest:And I remember I like went on the internet and it was still early for internet.
Guest:There was just like two webpages.
Guest:There's still like a hamster in it.
Guest:You had to like give it corn to make the internet go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I saw like, oh, Luna Lounge.
Guest:And then I'm like, I'm going to go to Luna before my interview so I can talk about that.
Guest:And I went and you were hosting.
Guest:There was a guy yelling there.
Guest:There was this very compelling individual.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I went and you were the host.
Guest:And I'll never forget it because I was like, this is what I need to talk about.
Guest:And then in my interview, they're like, who are your favorite comedians?
Guest:And I mean, I'd watched you on TV a ton because I used to watch all of those.
Guest:I watched so much Ha.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Short attention to band theater.
Guest:Yeah, all that stuff.
Guest:That was like all I did.
Guest:And so I was like, oh, my favorite comedians, Mark Mayer.
Guest:And then I got the jump.
Marc:So I helped.
Guest:You helped.
Marc:Chris Young probably said, oh, yeah, we know Mark.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's what they say, as opposed to, in lieu of a compliment.
Guest:I think it was, we love Mark.
Guest:I think it was, we love Mark.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:We love Mark.
Marc:We love Mark.
Marc:He's part of the old regime.
Marc:We can't give him anything.
Guest:Oh, no.
Marc:No.
Marc:What year was that?
Guest:This was in, I want to say, like, late, uh.
Marc:94, 95?
Guest:No, this was the beginning of 1998.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That late?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's my lifetime.
Marc:But had they heard about Luna then?
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:That was the thing.
Marc:It was already happening.
Guest:That was like the main thing.
Guest:Like we went everywhere.
Marc:That was the beginning of alternative comedy in New York City.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm still, whenever I walk by that place.
Marc:So did you even go into mainstream comedy clubs?
Marc:I mean, did you?
Marc:I mean, at that point, you just went in there only with Luna under your belt.
Guest:Well, I mean, in terms of I mean, again, like I knew I had watched a ton of stand up comedy, but I felt like actually the thing that would make me seem cooler was to know about that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, because it's very easy to say, like, I love Seinfeld.
Guest:And I think they wanted to go a little deeper, maybe.
Marc:So maybe not.
Marc:No, but you said the right thing.
Marc:Like, she's cutting edge.
Guest:But then I will say in terms of low expectations, like, so when I got the job, I was so, I mean, I was like, in a way, it was the greatest thing that ever happened because I was like, this is, you know, it was just a very lucky thing to have this job in New York that was like with great people and being around comedy.
Guest:And, um,
Guest:But I, so I was so excited and I have this like cubicle and, uh, it's a mess.
Guest:Like whoever they fired sort of deserved to be fired.
Guest:There's like tape, it's like papers everywhere.
Guest:And I opened like this giant drawer, which should have been the drawer for all this stuff.
Guest:And I remember it was just like 50 cans of slim fast.
Marc:You took a bulimics place.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I feel like it must have been working out.
Marc:So now you're an assistant.
Marc:Now, quite honestly, and I'm being, and this is after however long I've been in show business or whatever you call it.
Marc:What the fuck does, okay, so you started as an assistant.
Marc:I started as an assistant.
Marc:And then you figured out the ropes and you realized, okay, a talent executive just spends their day listening to funny people come in.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And put on a show for them.
Marc:And then they talk about it with the other talent executives and they go, should we bring it to the next guy up?
Right.
Guest:Do we like this flag?
Guest:Where's the pole?
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:And then you're like, I don't know if we should bring it.
Marc:I'm behind it, right?
Marc:And then you're like, well, maybe we should talk to him.
Marc:Who was the big guy?
Marc:Who was the next guy up over talent executive at that time?
Guest:Well, first of all, Mark, I'd like to make a distinction.
Guest:Because there was talent, which is like the people who book the stand-up shows.
Guest:And then there's development where you're developing the shows.
Guest:Because it was two separate departments, Mark.
Marc:And you were talent?
Guest:I was like, well, I was more development.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, that's that.
Marc:These are who I'm more curious about.
Guest:And then what do you do?
Guest:Right.
Marc:But how did you get?
Marc:First of all, how did you move from assistant to talent?
Guest:Just you just figured it out from from being an assistant to an executive.
Guest:Oh, I just stayed there.
Marc:That's that's what happens.
Marc:That's how people move up.
Marc:And if you don't get into trouble, you move up.
Guest:Well, I mean, I think that's basically what it is until you finally, after years, get the big job.
Guest:And then someone new comes in and they fire everyone automatically, usually.
Guest:But I did.
Marc:Unless you become that person.
Guest:Yeah, but then even that person gets fired.
Guest:I mean, Jeff Zucker just left, you know.
Marc:Yeah, I hope he's going to be okay.
Marc:I really hope Jeff Zucker is okay after what he did to the planet.
Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, yeah, it's a very part of the reason.
Guest:I mean, I did.
Guest:I knew, you know, you look at like your boss's bot, your bot, your work grandpa.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I didn't.
Guest:I was like, I don't want to be my work.
Guest:I didn't want to be my work grandpa.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But this is true.
Marc:This is like nuts and bolts shit that I have not talked about.
Marc:I mean, I've talked to a lot of comics who have tried to make movies or a lot of comics who have tried to do this or that.
Marc:And we've all had stories about our encounters with trying to sell things or with disappointing deals or whatever.
Marc:But I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to talk to somebody who was on both sides of this thing.
Marc:And just in terms of, okay, so now you're a development executive, which means people like me come in and go, look, I got this idea.
Marc:It's just me in bed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I get up, the camera's on, and I get out of bed, and I eat breakfast, and I talk to the camera.
Guest:It's called comedy emergency, and we help people solve problems.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So many comedians solving.
Guest:It's so ironic how many people pitch like a comedian solving problems because there's no one less equipped to solve a human problem than a comedian.
Guest:Like, literally.
Marc:We can talk about them.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:We've got a lot of points.
Guest:If you want to do a show about talking about problems, there's no better place to go.
Guest:But there are so many, like, and then we're going to help them solve the problem.
Guest:It's like, you're barely wearing pants.
Guest:Like, what?
Guest:That's the joke.
Marc:But that's it.
Marc:That's the layer.
Guest:I'm the pantsless guy who solves problems.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, but, like, okay, but tell me the structure because I'm honestly curious.
Guest:I'll tell you everything you want to know.
Marc:All right, so you're a development executive, and there's what, two or three of you?
Guest:There's two or three of us.
Guest:Kent Alterman was the person at the time.
Marc:Who's now the head of Comedy Central.
Guest:Now he left and then he returned.
Guest:He's back.
Marc:He's back.
Guest:He's back.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you're there, and you take meetings with comedians who are going to pitch, and you decide who you're going to take, which is most people, because that's what you do.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You listen to people pitch, and you let them hope that they have a chance.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then sometimes guys are coming, and you're like, there's no way.
Marc:Shh.
Marc:Let's just let them come.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Hi.
Guest:Do you want some Pinkberry?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God, Josh!
Guest:Come in!
Marc:Yeah, there's always a Josh.
Guest:Yeah, there's always a Josh.
Marc:But you listen to people, and then what happens after the guy walks out?
Marc:The three, you sit there.
Guest:Rarely is there, like, it's generally, like...
Guest:I mean, I've never had I've never been with a hooker, but I would imagine it's like when a hooker leaves, you just sort of you just sort of need to blank out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, I don't know.
Guest:Honestly, I mean, yeah.
Guest:So the person leaves.
Guest:I'll like to talk about.
Guest:So they leave.
Guest:And then like as an assistant, I would keep a little chart.
Guest:uh and we like take like however many pitches all week and then i would like keep the chart and it'd be like well mr x today pitched uh you know comedian helpers right and then at the end of the week you're like well what did we like and then there's like the things that are automatic like well maybe that is not it a lot of people would come in and pitch things to comedy central that comedy central would people were crazy right like a cat at the door i don't know people were nuts but then if some people pitching you mean
Guest:People, I mean, there was like a percentage.
Marc:Okay, so it might not be right for the network.
Marc:Or it might just be too crazy.
Guest:It might be too crazy.
Guest:But then if there was something that was in the zone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If there's something in the zone.
Marc:You have them back.
Marc:And you sort of tease them some more.
Guest:It depends.
Guest:Generally, being in New York, the person in control for most of the time that I was, like the person who would be the green light buyer giver was like usually in LA.
Guest:So then we'd call LA and we'd be like, we like this thing.
Marc:Oh, and then you'd fly them out and tease them.
Guest:No, you wouldn't fly them out.
Guest:Then you would like, so you would be like, this is a cool thing.
Guest:We want to do like a script or we want to do a thing.
Guest:And they would send them materials.
Marc:And they'd go, can we have some money?
Marc:And they'd go, no.
Guest:No.
Guest:Can it be
Guest:Can they just like half a presentation?
Guest:Can they just like take a Polaroid?
Marc:We'll give you money for puppets.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Does this anything that would involve?
Marc:So what shows came to be under your watch?
Guest:Well, I don't want to over exaggerate my watch because...
Marc:No, but I mean, not watch.
Marc:I mean, what you were part of that you were there for.
Guest:I was there.
Guest:Well, I'll reel off the highlights, so that will take two seconds.
Guest:Chappelle's show happened while I was there.
Guest:And David Tell Insomniac happened while I was there.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And Strangers with Candy, which some people love.
Guest:That was like the first thing that was happening when I got there.
Marc:So now you're doing okay as an executive.
Marc:You're on the fast track.
Guest:There's no.
Marc:You could have moved right over to HBO to a network job.
Marc:Yeah, no, no.
Marc:And you're like, fuck this.
Marc:I don't want any more money.
Marc:I'm going to be a stand-up.
Guest:Well, sort of, no.
Guest:First, none of what you said at the beginning.
Guest:There's no fast track.
Guest:There's no network job.
Guest:I mean, it was very golden handcuffs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was a very golden handcuffs job because we got, I had like an expense account.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I abused it.
Marc:You did?
Marc:We all did.
Marc:That's what they're for, aren't they?
Guest:We all did.
Marc:I mean, because it was also... What does that mean, abused?
Marc:You paid your rent?
Marc:No, not rent.
Marc:You bought a car?
Guest:Not rent, but, you know, you'd go to, like, a meal.
Guest:Oh, hell yeah.
Guest:I talked about watching... Sure.
Marc:The waiter made me laugh.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's work.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:We liked him.
Guest:There was some of that, but also when I first started, this was like the beginning of 98, and it was like when South Park was beginning.
Guest:It's like ascendancy from being this weird thing.
Marc:I remember when that video went around, the Jesus one.
Guest:The video went around, and so it had been, it was like the numbers, because Comedy Central before South Park was like, you know, there was stand-up, which was good, but then show-wise it was like Benny Hill reruns.
Guest:There was a lot of like... I remember.
Marc:I remember.
Guest:It was Benny Hill and a lot of weird shit.
Guest:And then South Park came on and all of a sudden, and the Daily Show was on with Craig Kilburn.
Guest:So that was like the other thing that had like a life.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I had a pilot there in, that was like, it was at that time, like I had a pilot for the Marc Maron Project, which was a talk show, you know, after HBO Downtown kind of got pushed out when Eileen and Doug came in.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that's when they chose The Daily Show over my pilot.
Marc:I don't know how much I was in the running, but I remember resenting all of it.
Marc:Because I remember Madeline Smithberg sitting down with me after they turned down my show.
Marc:Really?
Marc:And she was doing The Daily Show with Killborn.
Marc:Right.
Marc:She goes, we want to use you.
Marc:We picture you like crazy.
Marc:That's an amazing Madeline impression.
Marc:You're in a bathroom stall, and you're just crazy ranting.
Right.
Guest:You're in a bathroom.
Guest:You're bleeding from your eyes.
Marc:And she had that weird, like, loud laugh, which I can't quite remember.
Guest:She is a big laugher.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She's a good... She's a generous... So I remember that transition.
Marc:I remember where Comedy Central was at.
Marc:So South Park is ascending.
Guest:So South Park was ascending, and I remember I had been there for, like, a month, and it got...
Guest:There was the day that it got, it was like the who is Cartman's father reveal, which was like a big thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it got the highest like rating a cable show had ever, like a normal, our normal ratings were like a 0.8.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That would be huge.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And this got an eight point blank.
Marc:And everyone was like, we need more dirty cartoons.
Guest:Well, literally.
Guest:And that's when Eileen and Doug were there.
Guest:And now Doug's still there.
Guest:But Eileen was there.
Guest:And, like, shit.
Guest:Like, literally, like, they ordered.
Guest:Like, people were drinking champagne in the halls.
Guest:And, like, a masseuse came in.
Guest:And I was, like, jerking people off.
Marc:We're like, we did it.
Marc:Yeah, in the hall.
Marc:Yeah, in the halls.
Marc:And if there weren't enough masseuses, people were just jerking off in the halls.
Guest:They just put down a slip and slide and went crazy.
Guest:That's when the expense account, no one even looked at the money you were spending because the network was doing so incredibly flush.
Guest:But for me, I was very money conscious and I just felt like it just became the handcuffed thing of how do I get out of here?
Guest:And it was slow because I started to do stand-up
Marc:But why did you want to get out exactly?
Marc:I mean, it was just sort of like you weren't happy or you knew this wasn't your future or you had this secret bug you needed to do stand-up.
Guest:It was like kind of all of those things.
Guest:And I think also I realized that to be a development person, I mean, yeah, I wanted to be a comedian and a performer and a writer.
Guest:And I also kind of saw, I also went to therapy for years to be able to become able to risk leaving a job and believe that it would sort of maybe work out.
Guest:But...
Marc:Holy shit.
Guest:I also saw... Good for you.
Guest:Thank you very much, Mark.
Marc:Some of us are just programmed to fuck jobs up.
Marc:You're designed to keep them.
Guest:I am designed to keep them, and then I always quit them.
Guest:But I also saw those executives.
Guest:I had this false idea of job security, and then when you...
Guest:look at that life you realize that actually when you're an executive in that world like your your fate and career is based on so much whimsy because those you're not even really necessarily getting hired and fired on your ability right you know it's just sort of a lot of it is just your networking and and i felt like well and displacing blame
Guest:And displacing blame, it's like very political.
Guest:And so even if you're amazing at what you do, it doesn't mean anything.
Guest:Whereas like maybe if you're like a good writer and a good stand up, you can sort of propel yourself.
Marc:You have realized talents.
Guest:You have like a real, you know, and there are some very talented.
Guest:development people but it feels like you are all kind of um in the in the spokes of a very right in order to make a fickle wheel right and you got to take chances in a different way and you got it you know you have to play that game there's a game and i hate it and then but i i so then i was like well i could make money writing
Marc:right well that that's the big transition now because like i know you've i know you've written you wrote for snl briefly i know you wrote for michael and michael i don't know what was the first show you wrote for the first show i wrote for was on the showbiz show with david spade oh that's right and you had a segment on there too i had so now you're like a double threat like you know she can do stand-up yeah and she can write oh big double threat yeah and i remember you did some segments on that and that lasted a little while right
Guest:That show was on, I mean, in terms of you think now, like shows on any network, but also Comedy Central, it was on, there were three seasons of that show.
Marc:And you wrote for all of them?
Guest:I did.
Marc:And then what happened after that?
Guest:And then, um, and then like towards the end of that show, my agents were like, you know, why don't you take a, take a stab, take a brutal stabbing at, um, like writing for, you know, like a scripted network show.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So you wrote your spec.
Marc:What spec did you write?
Guest:I never wrote a spec.
Guest:I wrote an original pilot.
Marc:What was that one about?
Marc:A girl who went to Vassar, was an art history major, needed therapy to quit a job?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:That might be what I'm pitching this week.
Guest:Yeah, I wrote some weird pilot.
Guest:I was living in a guest house of these...
Guest:very nice lesbians and it was like a i was just trapped that's why i wrote a spec thing i don't know and um yeah so then i went on that crazy i went on like the crazy thing where you go meet with every single layer i don't know if you've ever done that have you ever done that not a writer you ever you know you never had any desire
Marc:No, I did, but I don't know how to write for other people.
Marc:I've written pilots for myself.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I mean, I can do it.
Guest:But you wouldn't want to sit at like a sitcom.
Marc:I couldn't separate my ego from it.
Marc:Like, I would not be able to watch as a writer a show being done where they did my jokes without going, that was me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was me.
Marc:That one, the one, the big laugh, me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it's weird.
Guest:Or more like, well, not that you're not talented, but more likely to be like, where'd my joke go?
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Like, what the fuck happened to my amazing joke?
Marc:And I can't use that in my act, I guess.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was hoping you guys wouldn't use it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you met with everybody, meaning?
Guest:You just, like, when you go and meet on those jobs, there's so, it's almost, it feels like adopting a child would involve less meetings than, like, being one of 13 Jews in a room, you know what I mean?
Guest:To, like, submit a line per script of an episode of episodic television.
Marc:Oh, so the writer's room.
Guest:yeah i mean you have to meet with like the network and then the studio and then like the show runner and then the show runner and then you they like call your dad or you know it's just very elaborate so i did that and um and i did not necessarily think i was gonna get one of those jobs and i got one of those jobs on what i wrote on a show called samantha who starring christina applegate on abc how long was that on
Guest:That was on, I want to say two seasons, two and a half seasons.
Marc:So you go from like writing Comedy Central show where you could do your own rants and also write Dave some riffs.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Dave Spade.
Guest:Wrote some Spade riffs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then now you're in this machine of a group of people where, you know, everyone's alone until you have to write your own episode and what you all just add to other people's storylines.
Marc:How does it work?
Guest:Uh, it works like you sit in a room and you're eating, uh, you know, a lot of snacks, so many snacks.
Guest:I gained so much weight.
Guest:And, uh, uh, that's when you lived out here.
Guest:That's when I lived down here.
Guest:Um, yeah, you sit and you break the stories as a group.
Guest:And, um,
Marc:Like someone's going to pitch story ideas?
Guest:You're pitching story ideas, and then you're like, all right, we're definitely doing the episode where they get a dog.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And then as a group, you figure out every scene of that show, and then someone gets sent off to write it.
Guest:And you write it for a week, usually, and then you come back.
Marc:How they choose who writes the episode after everyone else puts it together.
Guest:It's like a batting order.
Marc:And that's where you get your credit.
Guest:That's where you get your credit.
Marc:After doing the finishing touches on something everybody thought of.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:But you write.
Guest:I mean, you are writing the script.
Guest:I mean, you have an outline.
Marc:Sure, you just got an outline.
Marc:Well, that's interesting.
Marc:See, I never knew that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This idea.
Marc:I mean, some people don't even think that things are written.
Marc:Some people, despite no matter how intelligent they are.
Guest:They think that it's a documentary about Debra Messing.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:Or even that John Stewart, like, you know, just comes out after he sat down all day thinking of this stuff.
Marc:I mean, that's the amazing thing that, you know, relatively intelligent people don't know how this business operates and how the things are made.
Marc:And I would have thought that after the writer's strike, when nobody could get on television, you know, they tried to the first couple of days and they realized this is way too exhausting.
Guest:Oh, wait, what happened?
Marc:Yeah, they might get a sense that, you know, writers are necessary and essential.
Marc:I think that was one of the problems I had with even pursuing it outside of discipline was that you're really unsung heroes in a way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Unless you win something or you produce something amazing.
Marc:You're the showrunner.
Guest:I mean, I think the thing, the thing, and when you say, I mean, for me, I've had a lot of people over the years, I think also when I had this job as a development person, I, I am happy to talk about it because people really do want to know how do I do this?
Guest:You know, and people would always ask me like, how do I get into it?
Guest:And how do I get started?
Guest:And I,
Guest:You know, I worked on the other side of it for seven years, and I still... Like, it's all still new to me.
Guest:I'm like, what does this feel like?
Guest:Like, when I was sitting in a room on a network scripted show, and I remember being like, I can't believe I'm here.
Marc:Yeah, Chelsea Peretti just got a gig like that.
Guest:Yeah, she's on Parks and Rec, right?
Guest:And so, you know, I was like 31 or something, and I'm 32.
Guest:And it's just still like, you're kind of like, I can't... How am I...
Guest:What is this?
Guest:It's a very artificial, weird little thing.
Guest:And it's very odd.
Guest:And the thing is that you do work... It's like the number of hours that people work are crazy.
Marc:It's like doctor's hours.
Marc:And also I think like even...
Marc:When I talk to young stand-ups or they ask me what they should do or about getting into stand-up, I never used to say it, but I say it now.
Marc:Just realize that there's a lot of places where joke writers can fit in.
Marc:If you're going to think about a career in show business, think about at some point realizing that maybe you're not cut out from standing in front of people.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Maybe stand behind them.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Just stand just behind them.
Marc:But there's no shame in it because, like you said, I mean, the way it does work is if you get a job once and you understand how to write a package or you understand and you get good enough representation from your one job to send you out another job.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Guest:Not only is there no shame in it, there's generally millions of dollars.
Guest:You know, at the end of it, if you get good at it, you are crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you go from job to job.
Marc:You got good health coverage.
Marc:It's it's working and it's actually working in show business, working in show business.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's a there's yeah, there's no there's no shame in it.
Guest:It's a good way to make a living.
Marc:So you went from there to SNL?
Guest:I started working on Michael and Michael for Comedy Central, which was actually a great experience because it was just those guys and me and Kumail Nanjiani, if you know Kumail.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:I've interviewed him.
Guest:And so it was like I was sitting in a room with Kumail all day.
Guest:So it was like super fun.
Marc:And those guys are great.
Marc:He's a smart guy.
Marc:Funny guy.
Guest:Yes, and lovely.
Guest:And then we both got to act and be in it, and it was great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then that show ended, and then I started on SNL, like, Thanksgiving of last year.
Marc:But what was that experience, having to meet with that freak?
Marc:I went through that once.
Marc:Oh, which freak?
Guest:I mean, with Lauren.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Like, having to deal with that whole thing.
Guest:What did you do?
Guest:Were you a writer?
Marc:on that show no i was up for update or some you know portion of something i don't even know if it was really even they made me jump through the hoops i met with him and it's very awkward yeah and yeah there was it's very loaded up there i mean it's it's you know it's an institution it's an institution and yeah it's the west wing yeah and you but they're getting more done
Guest:I mean, at least on paper.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Shit's getting done every week.
Marc:It's a money machine.
Marc:It's a money machine.
Marc:I can't even imagine how much money Lorne Michaels every day.
Marc:Right now, Lorne Michaels is making a movie, making money off of something on television.
Guest:Lorne, yeah.
Guest:If there's ever anyone to picture, like, diving into the Scrooge Tower of gold coins and swimming.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean.
Marc:I can't even imagine how much money he made.
Guest:I mean, I literally, I'm amazed we have this many cookies on the table where I'm like, there's seven cookies.
Guest:Like I can't.
Guest:I can eat more.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's done very well.
Marc:But yeah, good for him.
Marc:I mean, he worked hard for it.
Marc:Now, what happened though?
Marc:Because you left.
Marc:I left.
Marc:But I mean, how long were you there?
Marc:Are you there for like less than a year, right?
Guest:Well, that wasn't my fault because I applied at the beginning of the year like everybody else, but they didn't hire me and then they hired me in the middle.
Guest:Well, I missed like the first seven shows.
Guest:So I came in like in November.
Marc:Did you not like it?
Guest:Well, I obviously didn't love it.
Marc:It wasn't... Because you hear things about how competitive it is and how weird and cutthroat it is and how everyone's climbing over each other to get sketches on and align themselves with talent.
Guest:You know, it's weird because obviously it's...
Guest:You know, I mean, I worshipped that show as a kid.
Guest:Like, that was all I wanted to do, you know.
Guest:And I literally, I remember telling, like, a teacher in junior high school, like, I want to work on this now.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then as you get older and you start to read books, you're like, you hear the stories and you gradually become aware that, like, maybe, you know, there are cats in America and the streets aren't paved with cheese.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And Fievel reference.
Guest:And so it becomes more like I remember, you know, when it came time to actually get that job, I was like, oh, what's this going to be like?
Guest:You know, it's almost like.
Marc:How is this going to disappoint me?
Marc:Because I've read the books.
Guest:It's going to be like fucking your hero.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's disappointing.
Guest:And then your hero gives you herpes.
Marc:Or they can't get it up.
Guest:They can't get it up.
Guest:And then they squirt herpes on you.
Guest:And then you're like, oh.
Marc:Of course, you didn't bring a condom.
Guest:No, it's his job.
Guest:It's Lauren's job to buy condoms.
Guest:He probably has people to buy condoms for him.
Marc:He probably has people to fuck for him.
Guest:There's no, no experience has been experienced directly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I will say this.
Guest:It's actually, in terms of cutthroatness and backstabbing, I did not have that experience because I actually, pretty much everyone there is very nice.
Marc:And they're all friends of yours at this point.
Marc:You all know each other.
Marc:I know a lot of those people.
Guest:And the cast could not be lovelier.
Marc:Yeah, I think that was a different generation.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't describe it.
Guest:They're all really nice.
Marc:Genuinely.
Marc:Well, yeah, Mulaney's over there.
Marc:I talked to guys there.
Marc:And Leo Allen was there when you were there, was he not?
Guest:No, Leo had left a little before.
Guest:So there's none of that, really.
Guest:But I would describe it more, for me...
Guest:It's it's more like survivor in the sense where helping other like everyone just very focused on getting through and as they should be because you it's very, very hard.
Guest:And for but for me, why did I leave?
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:First of all, I will say I don't know that I was particularly great at it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, I think I was getting better.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I.
Guest:That's not necessarily like the thing that comes the most naturally to me.
Guest:And you do kind of have to live there.
Guest:I mean, literally, you know, you're working.
Guest:I think I saw it before.
Guest:I knew you have to stay really late, but I sort of forgot about the six days a week, like Saturday Night Live.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so you're working six days a week and then Sunday is sort of like a lost day because you're just in recovery and you've gotten home at six in the morning.
Guest:And I felt like I wasn't living a life.
Guest:And I'm glad I did it.
Guest:And I'm not just being diplomatic.
Guest:Honestly, I'm really glad I did it.
Guest:I met amazing people.
Guest:But it exhausted me.
Guest:It drained me.
Marc:Was stand-up part of it?
Marc:Did you want to get out and do more stand-up?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I wanted to do more stand-up.
Guest:It was a little bit that same feeling at the end of being in L.A.
Guest:and working on a thing.
Guest:You know, I felt like I am old enough now that I should try to do something on my, like, make a thing.
Guest:That's my thing.
Marc:Create a show.
Guest:Or, yeah, something that's more voice-based.
Guest:Just, yes.
Marc:Now, your dad being a probation officer, did you have to meet with him once a week?
Guest:Actually, I didn't meet with my dad at all for a while because he worked like three jobs.
Guest:And I feel, I mean, my parents are still married, but he was never, he was working.
Marc:You didn't have to walk in with a glass of pee and say, I've been good.
Guest:I was a very, I never, I was a very good kid.
Guest:I didn't do any of that stuff.
Guest:I mean, literally, if he had been my, I mean, I've seen you a little drunk before.
Guest:I do get drunk.
Guest:Yeah, I'm bad.
Guest:I've been a bad drunk.
Guest:But I never smoked pot.
Guest:I never did like any real, I never did drugs.
Marc:You haven't done any?
Guest:The one time I smoked pot, it was not good for me.
Guest:I'm a hypochondriac, and I thought I was having... I remember I forgot how to breathe.
Marc:That's a classic... Classic symptom?
Guest:Is it classic?
Marc:Classic panic.
Marc:Classic stone panic.
Guest:I had a panic, and I was like, I can inhale, but then I stop.
Guest:And how will I exhale?
Guest:And I also, I remember I was sitting with a bunch of friends and I thought that I'd peed my pants.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:And I was like, I peed my pants, you guys.
Guest:I mean, it was the most pussy bullshit ever.
Marc:Did you?
Guest:No, I didn't, but I felt warm down there.
Marc:Oh, sweet.
Marc:Are you still a hypochondriac?
Guest:Very, yeah.
Guest:Very much so.
Marc:What do you have today?
Marc:Anything?
Guest:Like lumps.
Marc:General lumps.
Guest:Just general lumpiness.
Marc:Some people meditate, you just go over your body.
Guest:Yeah, I just sort of like... On a lump search.
Guest:I just...
Guest:That's the name of my show, Lump Search.
Marc:That should be the name of your show.
Guest:Lump Search.
Marc:That'd be a great name.
Guest:I'm better than I used to be because I've gotten very, like once the internet came into it, then that's an enable.
Marc:I'm sure you can confirm that you're dying on any given moment.
Guest:Every link just goes to one website called Death Time.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you see, yeah, it's just, it's literally adios.com and you're like, yeah, every single, I mean, yeah.
Guest:And so I've, I've, I am trying to be better about not going to the internet.
Marc:Good for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I still, I still crack.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You have to.
Guest:The one other thing I just want to say that as someone who is on the other side of it, that it like I remember the first like rejecting people.
Guest:And when I became someone who had to be like literally tell people on the phone, like we're not doing your thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That that was crippling.
Yeah.
Guest:And and actually the very first time I had to do it, it was when Craig Kilbourne had left or was leaving The Daily Show.
Guest:And and it was like the talent search for who's going to replace John or who's going to replace Craig.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And of course, I'm sure.
Guest:I mean, I was an assistant.
Guest:I was a dum dum.
Guest:So I'm sure like John was always the person they wanted, but we were instructed like to look at every tape that got sent in.
Guest:And so, and yes, tape, VHS tapes.
Guest:And so many tapes came in.
Guest:It was like so many weathermen, so many weathermen sending in their funny tapes or people just making a tape in their house.
Guest:Right.
Guest:and i watched all of them i watched all of them because that was my job and um and i would like talk to all because they would call and it was my like i don't have an i'm the person who answers yeah so um i somehow started talking to this one guy who had sent in a tape and he was not an unfunny guy maybe he was a weatherman but he was nice like he wasn't crazy he was like a nice guy on the phone yeah
Guest:And I was so green that he, you know, he was like, am I going to be the host of that?
Guest:Like, I would like to be the host of The Daily Show.
Guest:I was like, well, I'm looking at your tape.
Guest:And so we had like a back and forth where I think I showed it to someone.
Guest:And then they were like, no.
Guest:I mean, whoever was even bothering with this.
Guest:uh but i remember and i was putting off his calls for a while like i let it go to voicemail and again this is a normal nice guy like not a weirdo right just some guy and finally i was like i have to talk to him and i picked up the phone and i'm like hi whatever his name was yeah and um he was like i was like uh so i have an he's like do you have an answer on my tape and
Guest:And I was like, yeah, can you just hold on a second?
Guest:And I put him on hold, and I got out of my chair, and I took a walk all the way around the building, which is like a city block of a building.
Guest:Like, I was like, I have to tell this guy.
Guest:I'm about to break a heart.
Guest:I'm going to break a fucking dream right now.
Guest:Like, I hold in my hand someone's little jellyfish of a dream, and I'm going to take it, and I'm going to fucking throw it out the window and watch it smash to a million pieces.
Guest:And I'm 22.
Oh, fuck.
Guest:And so I walked all the way around.
Guest:He must have been on hold for at least five minutes, which is even worse.
Guest:And then I got back and I was like, I picked up the phone.
Guest:I was like, I'm very sorry.
Guest:Everyone really liked your tape, but I don't think it's going to work out right now.
Guest:And then I threw up in my mouth.
Guest:And he was disappointed.
Guest:He was like, oh, really?
Guest:And I'm like, I'm so sorry.
Guest:And then we got married.
Guest:We were together for like seven years.
Guest:I felt so bad.
Guest:We had three kids.
Guest:But I'll never forget it.
Guest:So, I mean, that is the thing.
Marc:Now they don't even tell you sometimes.
Guest:Oh, I've been witness to people just never hearing me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you're like, oh, you didn't hear.
Marc:Oh, I thought that.
Marc:No, that's not even here anymore.
Guest:Old man McGillicuddy.
Guest:Well, he burned down 40 years ago.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's crazy.
Marc:Well, good for you for having a little spine, even though it took you throwing up and taking a walk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then it got super easy.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:It's not going to happen for you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, you're sort of you're sort of me.
Guest:No, it was always hard.
Guest:But that was that was like it was the virginity loss.
Marc:Oh, well, it sounds like you handled it well.
Marc:Thanks, Mark.
Marc:It was sweet talking to you.
Guest:Same.
Guest:Thank you for having me.
Guest:Sorry about those other times.
Marc:It's absolutely the cookies work.
Guest:Do they work?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They always do.
Marc:And I'm not going to let you take any to Jeff Garland tonight.
Marc:Because you're doing his show.
Guest:He doesn't eat cookies anymore.
Guest:It's fine.
Guest:So I'll see you in New York.
Guest:I'll see you in New York, Mark.
Marc:That is the show, folks.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed Jesse Klein.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get on the mailing list, please, because I enjoy doing that, and I want to share that with you.
Marc:You can do that.
Marc:You can give us some money, kick us a few shekels, kick a few shekels into the Jew pot.
Marc:By donating, we are a listener-supported show.
Marc:Obviously, also a bit of advertising supporting as well.
Marc:And some of that advertising stuff makes some of you guys feel a little uncomfortable.
Marc:But JustCoffee.coop is there as well.
Marc:Punchline Magazine for all your comedy news needs.
Marc:StandUpRecords.com.
Marc:He's got a great label over there.
Marc:Recorded on my CDs.
Marc:I'm blah, blah, blah-ing it up.
Marc:All right.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Be well.