Episode 1214 - Daniel Kaluuya
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it today on the show i talked to daniel kaluuya um you know him
Marc:From the films Get Out, Black Panther, Queen and Slim.
Marc:He won a Golden Globe for his portrayal of Fred Hampton in Judas and the Black Messiah.
Marc:And he's nominated for the Best Supporting Actor Academy Award.
Marc:Big time, man.
Marc:I talked to him.
Marc:He was in.
Marc:Where was he when I talked to him?
Marc:He was here, wasn't he?
Marc:Why can't I remember anything?
Marc:What's going on with my head?
Marc:Why is every day a month?
Marc:Why is every day a week?
Marc:How did that thing you made turn out?
Marc:Did it turn out okay?
Marc:I mentioned a painting last week and a painting that means something to me of the door of the Air America studio.
Marc:And I know who painted it.
Marc:It was painted by Kristen Anderson Barrick.
Marc:She's a fan of the show.
Marc:She made the painting.
Marc:It's now hanging in my house.
Marc:along with other stuff, painting by Scotty Young of me interviewing Fozzie Bear.
Marc:I've got a Drew Friedman caricature of me.
Marc:These are my prized possessions art-wise.
Marc:Very exciting.
Marc:That's what I've been doing.
Marc:I've been trying to set up that office, and I like sitting up there.
Marc:It's coming along well, but I have a lot of stuff, man.
Marc:It's like this never-ending process of going through a lifetime's worth of stuff.
Marc:All my stuff has never really been in one place like it is now.
Marc:I had a lot of this stuff in the garage, but I also had a storage unit.
Marc:So now everything of me is around.
Marc:And there's a lot of stuff that I feel like there's pressure to be emotionally connected to it, like paraphernalia from TV shows I've done and stuff.
Marc:like the backs of chairs.
Marc:And I don't know what to do with that stuff.
Marc:I don't really want to make a trophy case.
Marc:I don't know what to... I'm not going to hang this stuff up.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:There's only a few things I want to be reminded of.
Marc:I have glow calendars and glow paraphernalia that... I mean, I did that show and I think that...
Marc:The show itself is enough for me to be connected to, but all these little tchotchkes and things, they build up over the years.
Marc:Things people send me, fan art, tchotchkes, things from shoots, laminates.
Marc:How do you decide what you really give a shit about or what you're emotionally attached to?
Marc:You go through it and you realize like, oh, okay, yeah, I remember this.
Marc:Right, that was when, oh, that wasn't a great time.
Marc:But I have all these notebooks full of stuff.
Marc:I'm never going to read them, but you feel this desire to hold on to them.
Marc:So now I come up with this great idea.
Marc:I'm going to file everything.
Marc:That's my solution.
Marc:No more stacks, files.
Marc:I'm going to file things under little notebooks, big notebooks, legal pad pages from different points in time.
Marc:My stamp collection.
Marc:You didn't know I had a stamp collection, did you?
Marc:I didn't either.
Marc:I kind of did, but I didn't really think about it much.
Marc:But I was one of these people.
Marc:I still kind of am sometimes, but I haven't lately.
Marc:If I'd go to the post office and I'd see a nice kind of cool new panel of stamps, you know, they're all in one of, you know, the sheet of stamps.
Marc:For a while there, they were doing actually pictures with the stamps themselves.
Marc:I've got some of that stuff from several years ago.
Marc:Who's it worth anything to?
Marc:What am I going to do with it?
Marc:Like I have things where I look at it like this is probably a collector's item.
Marc:I could probably sell this for a lot of money.
Marc:Somebody would want this.
Marc:I don't know what to do with it.
Marc:I keep it not because I'm emotionally attached to it, but because I know somebody else might want it.
Marc:I could just throw it away or I could throw it back into the great tide pool of used garbage.
Marc:I could always do that.
Marc:Who am I calling you?
Marc:I could just put some of that stuff into a Goodwill thing, but that backfired once on me.
Marc:I put a poster that somebody sent me or a piece of art, a framed thing.
Marc:I gave it to Goodwill and it made it back to the guy.
Marc:And it was very insulting.
Marc:So all books that are signed that are sent to me and signed, I have to keep all pieces of art.
Marc:I have to keep.
Marc:But the stuff that isn't labeled as such, maybe I should go lowball it, give it to Goodwill and let somebody discover it and be like, what an amazing find.
Marc:How rare do you find this?
Marc:What would that be?
Marc:This is a notebook of Mark Maron's writings.
Marc:Who?
Marc:Marc Maron.
Marc:This is a little moleskin notebook that I found it at Goodwill.
Marc:So you can't write in it?
Marc:You found a filled-up notebook at Goodwill and you bought it?
Marc:It's Marc Maron's.
Marc:I don't know that guy.
Marc:Mark Maron, the comedian, this is his scribblings.
Marc:You can't read them.
Marc:But I know it's his because he put his name at the front of the book.
Marc:This is so cool.
Marc:Mark who?
Marc:How much you pay for it?
Marc:$2.
Marc:$2 for a notebook you can't use?
Marc:It's Mark Maron's.
Marc:I don't know who that is.
Marc:Maybe I'll keep it.
Marc:I'll file it.
Marc:I have a panel of Star Wars stamps.
Marc:I have a panel of Jimi Hendrix stamps.
Marc:I have some John Lennon stamps from another country.
Marc:I didn't know I was a stamp collector, but clearly I have a small, probably highly valuable collection of stamps.
Marc:I have the Blues Master stamps.
Marc:I have the Superhero stamps.
Marc:I just buy them on the way out.
Marc:I don't know what...
Marc:What are they worth, man?
Marc:I have the commemorative stamps of Charles and Diana's wedding.
Marc:Yeah, I bought those when I was in Europe at the time of their wedding.
Marc:I was in France as a younger man.
Marc:And I'm like, those commemorative stamps, they're going to be worth some money.
Marc:I guess it's just in my head.
Marc:I had a stamp collecting book.
Marc:I had my dad's stamp collection when I was a little kid.
Marc:And then I had the little collection where you had to have those weird little sticky, the little hinges that you had to lick and put one on back of the stamp and one in your stamp book.
Marc:I never had anything valuable.
Marc:Just, you know, you're just waiting, man.
Marc:Maybe someday, maybe someday I'll find the upside down plane stamp.
Marc:Maybe the upside down plane stamp is in my future.
Marc:That's what trains people.
Marc:To find garbage that's worth millions of dollars.
Marc:It starts you young.
Marc:It's like stamp collecting, coin collecting.
Marc:Maybe you'll be the one to find the gold doubloon from the pirate booty.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Maybe you'll be the one to find the Hitler stamps.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Maybe it'll be you.
Marc:This will set you in on a lifetime of poking through shit at flea markets and good wills.
Marc:Maybe you'll find that that thing at that garage sale that's worth a billion dollars.
Marc:Hey, what is this?
Marc:What's this?
Marc:What's on this napkin?
Marc:Is that does that say Picasso?
Marc:How much is the napkin?
Marc:The napkin with the doodle?
Marc:How much is the napkin?
Marc:How much?
Marc:$2?
Marc:Holy shit, dude.
Marc:Here you go.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:It's a fucking Picasso napkin.
Marc:Dude.
Marc:This is going to be... Dude.
Marc:It's a fucking Picasso napkin.
Marc:We're taking it over to MoMA today.
Marc:Yeah, hi.
Marc:Is there somebody here we can talk to about this napkin?
Marc:It's a Picasso napkin.
Marc:No.
Marc:Isn't this MoMA?
Marc:Museum of Modern Art?
Marc:Yeah, but this is just for tickets to get in.
Marc:I got a Picasso napkin.
Marc:Check it out.
Marc:Dude, show them the Picasso napkin.
Marc:$2 we paid for it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Do you guys want to go into the museum?
Marc:Who do we talk to about this Picasso napkin?
Marc:Maybe you go to an appraiser of some kind.
Marc:That napkin doesn't look old enough to be a Picasso napkin.
Marc:It's totally a Picasso napkin.
Marc:Okay, do you guys want to step aside so I can help these people?
Marc:Hey, listen, this is an interesting thing.
Marc:when I was talking last week or whenever it was Monday about how I have that feeling of like, wow, this is great.
Marc:And it's coupled with the feeling of like, what difference does it make?
Marc:Doesn't matter.
Marc:Like any joy that I have is tempered by the idea that, you know, um,
Marc:Who cares?
Marc:We're all going to die.
Marc:It's meaningless.
Marc:But I love it.
Marc:Doesn't matter.
Marc:It's going to go away.
Marc:That.
Marc:And my producer, Brendan, thought it might be trauma, which is possible.
Marc:Might be just straight up existential observation or neurosis, which has been with me a long time.
Marc:But someone brought up, and this is a spin that I enjoy and I wouldn't have thought of.
Marc:They said, the meditation is working.
Marc:Like that is the first step to realizing everything just is.
Marc:And you're in it in the moment that you can look at life as it is all at once.
Marc:And that is enlightenment.
Marc:So when I go, man, man, I feel pretty good, but who cares?
Marc:It's going to be over soon.
Marc:I'm on the verge of enlightenment.
Marc:Don't call me negative.
Marc:I'm about to be a fucking Buddha, baby.
Marc:And don't shoot me.
Marc:If you find the Buddha, kill him.
Marc:Don't kill me though.
Marc:I'm never going to be a real Buddha.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:I'm not going to let myself get that heavy.
Marc:So Sammy the cat is now officially out of his fucking mind.
Marc:Full on cat.
Marc:Does a sideways crab walk.
Marc:Sideways Sammy.
Marc:I've got this bathroom with this weird tile and it seems to fuck with his head.
Marc:So he does the sideways crab walk.
Marc:The hoppy crab sideways Sammy.
Marc:And Buster and Sammy are starting to do a thing together, getting to know each other, which means Buster kind of pops him in the head a couple of times.
Marc:Sammy rolls over on his back, gets submissive, lays himself out and basically says, come on, man.
Marc:It's just me and you.
Marc:We're the only cats in the house.
Marc:What are you going to be a dick to me?
Marc:I mean, I'll take it for a little while, but let's fucking jam.
Marc:Let's fucking get on with this.
Marc:Let's have some fun, old man.
Marc:Buster's like, I'm not old, man.
Marc:I'm only five.
Marc:Yeah, well, I'm fresh.
Marc:I'm fucking two months old, so you're old, bro.
Marc:Let me fucking run you ragged.
Marc:Hey, just take it down a notch, punk.
Marc:Hey, don't hit me like that.
Marc:I'll fucking stand right out.
Marc:I'll take it.
Marc:I'll take it.
Marc:Look at me.
Marc:Look at me.
Marc:I'm taking it.
Marc:I'm taking the hit.
Marc:I'm still right here, bro.
Marc:I'm still right here.
Marc:All right, all right.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:Just relax.
Marc:Hey, leave my tail alone.
Marc:Hey, leave my tail.
Marc:You want to go?
Marc:That's what's happening.
Marc:Reminds me of many of the relationships I've been in.
Marc:Just waiting for them to realize I'm just annoying and it's going to be that way.
Marc:And either you love me or you don't.
Marc:Daniel Kaluuya is here on this show.
Marc:The new movie is Judas and the Black Messiah.
Marc:He plays Fred Hampton.
Marc:He's great in it.
Marc:He's great in everything he does.
Marc:You've seen him in a lot of things.
Marc:Get Out, Black Panther, Queen and Slim.
Marc:He's an Academy Award-nominated actor right now for Best Supporting.
Marc:Just won the Golden Globe.
Marc:And I enjoy talking to him.
Marc:So I'm going to share it with you.
Marc:I'm going to share it with you right now.
Marc:All right.
Marc:He's also about to host Saturday Night Live this weekend.
Marc:Talk about that, too.
Marc:We talked about a lot of stuff.
Marc:It's surprising.
Marc:You'll be surprised at who influenced him the most.
Marc:Listen up.
Marc:Me and Daniel Kaluuya.
Guest:hello hey man what an honor it is an honor it is an honor for me sir wow phoenix mutual i think i saw you where is that on sunset the comedy the comedy store yeah yeah yeah is that the red one yes yeah yeah the dark horrific castle of dark comedy the yeah i didn't i didn't see you perform but i saw you when i was walking in because i think i was switching neil brennan
Guest:Yes, that makes sense.
Guest:And Donnell Rowlands was on that show?
Marc:Donnell, yeah.
Marc:Neil, yep.
Marc:That would have been me.
Marc:But you remembered me walking by because I was exuding negative energy or was I pleasant?
Marc:Did I say hi?
Marc:No, I just know your face.
Guest:I listen to your podcast.
Guest:I know your face.
Marc:It's so funny when your assistant was like making sure that we weren't using any video, but she was sort of like, you're not using anything.
Marc:I'm like, no, we don't use any video.
Marc:It always is weird to me because I'm like, do we not know something?
Marc:Is he going to show up without hair?
Marc:What is happening?
Guest:Is there...
Marc:It's like I'm an alien.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:It's like an alien being.
Marc:Me without all the makeup, man.
Marc:I'm not from here.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Where are you?
Guest:Did you move here?
Guest:I'm still on the move.
Guest:I'm still figuring out where my base is.
Guest:I go back and forth to LA and London, but it's weird because of the pandemic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nothing usually shoots in L.A.
Guest:So L.A.
Guest:is just a place to be.
Guest:And then you go to, I don't know, Cleveland or Chicago.
Guest:And now because of the pandemic, not a lot of things are filming.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So you're just in L.A.
Guest:or in London.
Guest:So you're in one place for a period of time.
Marc:Hanging around.
Guest:Hanging around.
Guest:But I don't mind it.
Guest:I kind of like it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think I understand retirement.
Marc:I didn't think I would, but I think I do now.
Marc:I think I understand.
Guest:Are you thinking about retirement now?
Guest:Is that where you space your head in?
Marc:I think what I'm thinking about is I'm pretty good at doing nothing.
Marc:I don't mind just having the whole day to think and dick around in my house or do little things.
Marc:I don't mind it.
Marc:You?
Guest:I love it.
Guest:It's one of my favorite things in the world.
Guest:In this pandemic, I realized I actually like me.
Guest:I think I'm pretty chill.
Guest:I like what I'm into.
Guest:So I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:I go into this direction, that direction.
Guest:And then like it will just you wake up.
Guest:I wake up really early.
Guest:So wake up at 6 a.m.
Guest:and then 4 p.m.
Guest:comes and I've just not really done much.
Guest:But I've done a lot.
Guest:But it's like more just like going wandering here and there.
Guest:I especially love the beginning of the pandemic because no one really knew how to work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or do anything.
Guest:So it was kind of like you had more you time.
Marc:Yeah, because no one was doing anything.
Marc:You didn't have to be in a competition.
Marc:You didn't have to resent anybody.
Marc:It was just sort of like level playing field.
Marc:Everyone's terrified and not working.
Guest:Yeah, that's usually, that's how the Western society works.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So look, congratulations on winning the prize, the Golden Globe Prize.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thanks, Mark.
Marc:Was that something, how could that not be great?
Marc:It's exciting, right?
Marc:Even if you pretend like you don't care, you do care, right?
Marc:What's caring?
Guest:Does it mean something to you?
Guest:The journey's the goal.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:That's how I feel.
Guest:That's how I feel.
Guest:It's kind of like, oh, wow, look how far I've come.
Guest:It's how I kind of process those kind of moments.
Guest:You're like, wow.
Guest:I see them more as checkpoints and go, wow, this is like, wow.
Wow.
Guest:I really was just like saying to a friend at a bus stop that I wanted to do this.
Guest:And now I'm in a house in LA within a globe that, that, that, that, that you go, wow, that's what you kind of take in the kind of like, it's such a moment where like, this has happened.
Guest:I think that's true.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So in terms of the globe, it's really interesting because it's like you win the Golden Globe, but because it was at your house, you didn't have the experience of winning the Golden Globe.
Guest:You didn't actually have the whole thing around it.
Guest:So it's a very different experience in that sense.
Guest:I actually liked it.
Guest:I just vibed out and just chilled.
Marc:Yeah, it is a very odd reality that no dressing up, no red carpet, no photographs, no people going, Daniel, over here, Daniel, over here, Daniel, Daniel, over here, Daniel.
Marc:You missed that part.
Guest:That's a weird reality as well.
Guest:The norm is weird.
Guest:That's my thing.
Guest:It's like when I was in the first red carpet, people were shouting at me, smile, smile.
Guest:I'm like, no.
Marc:Daniel, I'm here at the hand.
Marc:Daniel.
Guest:It's like, if you want to see someone smile,
Guest:Tell a joke.
Guest:Tell a joke.
Guest:They say smile.
Guest:What kind of smile are you getting?
Marc:You got to work on the smile.
Marc:I never was able to kind of figure out what the exact red carpet photo shoot smile was.
Marc:I always have my mouth half open.
Marc:I'm never happy with it.
Marc:But some people you notice, they obviously have the fucking smile nailed.
Marc:They got it worked out.
Marc:They know exactly what muscles to do.
Marc:They have a set smile.
Marc:You don't have one?
Marc:You haven't put any thought into that?
Guest:No, I haven't put any thought into that.
Guest:Good, good, good.
Guest:I just kind of go, let me keep the neutral face.
Guest:Let me just go.
Marc:Neutral face.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:And then we're out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:If you make me smile, you make me smile.
Guest:I just want it to be natural.
Guest:Whatever it is, I want it to be natural.
Marc:I think neutral face is good.
Marc:I go with the closed mouth smile.
Marc:That's what I do.
Marc:The slight grin, you know, like this.
Guest:That's what they call it.
Guest:The smiles, right?
Guest:The smiles.
Marc:Yeah, something like that.
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Marc:It's just short of being angry.
Marc:No, that's not true.
Guest:Kind of constipated is what you're saying.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, fine.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not letting the joy out.
Marc:If that's what constipated means.
Guest:You are not letting shit go.
Guest:You are not letting shit go.
Marc:I do hold on to some shit in my heart there, buddy.
Marc:So I was wondering about how to start this because I've been talking to English people lately and I seem to be getting along with them better.
Marc:I don't know when that happened.
Marc:But it wasn't that I was judgmental of English people I just always assumed that there was some part of me that when I was younger that the way they talked Made me believe they thought they were better than me whereas opposed it was just the way British people talk so It's gotten much better and I've been surprised lately by the my British experience I Hugh Grant on and that guy made me laugh a lot.
Marc:I was not expecting that at all Have you ever met that guy?
Guest:No, no, man.
Guest:But I'm seeing these recent interviews.
Guest:That guy looks like a real guy.
Guest:He's a funny guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he just not.
Guest:But yes, like authenticity to him that I was quite surprised about.
Guest:Yeah, me too.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:He's a real brother.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I kind of like his energy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think that was I don't think he was always that, but I think it's come to that.
Marc:But I have no sense of the city or how people, you know, grow up there or live there.
Marc:Can you tell me, like, what part of town you grew up in?
Marc:What you know, what was the story?
Guest:I grew up in Camden town.
Guest:Well, Camden.
Marc:And that's part of London?
Guest:It's part of London, Northwest London.
Guest:And like, so basically on the borderline, like I grew up on a borderline Camden and Island.
Guest:Grew up on a, what you guys would call a projects.
Marc:Oh really?
Guest:And then, so yeah, housing, like we call it, we call it estates.
Marc:That's a much nicer name.
Guest:Yeah, I'm realizing now.
Guest:But the thing is, estates is kind of like, when you're honest, in my memory of an estate, I never called it an estate.
Guest:We'd call it flats.
Guest:We'd call it the flats and stuff.
Guest:So I think the estate came like when I was like more late teens than, I think that's what middle class and upper class people call it.
Guest:So then you just go, oh yeah, it's the estates.
Guest:But then we started calling them estates.
Guest:But I don't know, but I just remember I didn't really consciously call it, oh, that estate, that estate.
Marc:It sounds like something they labeled them to feel better about themselves.
Guest:And yeah, like rough area.
Guest:A lot of characters.
Guest:I grew up around a lot of people.
Guest:You got brothers and sisters?
Guest:I've got an older sister.
Guest:I've got a couple.
Guest:I've got two sisters in Uganda, yeah.
Marc:You've got three sisters in Uganda?
Guest:No, I've got two sisters in Uganda.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Do you travel there?
Marc:Have you been there?
Guest:Yeah, I've been there a couple of times.
Guest:But when you go there, you go there like six weeks ago.
Guest:So you're just there.
Guest:So it was quite an intense time.
Marc:It's not a weekend trip.
Guest:No, you've got too many families.
Guest:I've got too much family for all that.
Guest:I've got too many families.
Guest:You're visiting probably three homes a day for like two weeks.
Guest:And then you can have...
Guest:a break and a holiday but it's like boom boom boom boom boom you're like seeing everyone giving gifts seeing everyone giving gifts and saying hello boom boom eating food yeah you gain a lot of weight you eat a lot of food who lives there from your family your two sisters and you just yeah and your father's there no no he's dead oh he's dead when did that happen it happened when i was a kid yeah sorry buddy no that's all right sorry you're doing it's cool
Marc:But so the sisters are there.
Marc:Now, when was the first time you went there to Uganda?
Marc:Seven years old.
Marc:And then did you go back later in life?
Guest:Yeah, I went back seven.
Guest:Went back again at 15.
Guest:Went back again at 22.
Guest:And went there like big chunks of time.
Guest:And then going to Uganda really changed my perspective on life.
Marc:I can't imagine.
Guest:You kind of go there.
Guest:And then, you know what it is?
Guest:I went there.
Guest:I went there first time when I was seven.
Guest:Reality check.
Guest:I remember the electricity cut out.
Guest:That's a reality check as a seven-year-old.
Guest:I'm watching football, watching my team's Arsenal, yeah?
Guest:Watching football.
Guest:And then I'm like, yeah, I can't believe I'm in Africa and I'm watching football.
Guest:Then electricity cuts out.
Guest:I'm sitting there to my cousin and I was like, what happened?
Guest:He said, the electricity cuts out.
Guest:I said, well, put it back on.
Guest:He said, we can't.
Guest:I said, why?
Guest:He said, because it's out.
Guest:I said, when is it coming back?
Guest:He said, I don't know.
Guest:Bro, I cried so deeply.
Guest:I was like, what is happening?
Guest:And then an hour later, I was like, bro, they put some candles out.
Guest:We started speaking.
Guest:We started talking.
Guest:I was like, oh, wow, I didn't really need to.
Guest:It's not needed.
Guest:It's just like it's a tool.
Guest:There's not necessarily, but you, I was made to feel that way.
Guest:I was, I felt that way at seven.
Guest:I felt that way.
Guest:And it just educated me in like, that's not the case.
Guest:I just had, I had a lot of experiences that challenged my perception.
Guest:And then that, like the way I live my life is just a way, it's not the way.
Marc:and um yeah well it must be completely different culturally down there i have no idea what i have no idea it takes me a long time to learn the history of anything i just had uh you know serge tank tankian on who is in a the system of a down the band and he's armenian and he had to educate me about armenia i don't like i guess it's because i live in the united states and i'm you know uh i have a a a sort of entitled brain or whatnot but i've
Marc:I have absolutely no sense.
Marc:And I guess you probably didn't either when you were seven, what Uganda would be like.
Guest:I had a sense of the vibe and the energy because when I grew up, essentially, in your house is Uganda.
Guest:It's a Ugandan culture.
Guest:It's a Ugandan vibe.
Guest:So it was like a country version of my home.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And then, yeah, and I was there.
Guest:It was just...
Guest:Yeah, it was just a reality check and kind of like, but I just didn't see it.
Guest:I'm kind of a person that I just go and go, oh, if this is where I'm at, what does this say where I'm at?
Guest:I rarely go into things with expectations.
Guest:I just accept what's happening and I keep moving forward.
Marc:Well, how is it different?
Marc:What is the government like down there?
Marc:I mean, is it...
Guest:uh dictatorship or what is it down there do you know is it i mean yeah no no it's my 70s in charge there's a whole bobby wine situation yeah um and then it's uh it's tough my 70s been in in charge for a very long time um and um so i'm not into like oh i don't like study like i i took in a couple things up during the last election so i know the bare bones but it's not i'm not i wouldn't say i'm skilled enough to kind of speak about it on the
Guest:on a public platform.
Guest:So I really want to go into that space if I'm not fully equipped.
Marc:So needless to say, it's not a democracy per se.
Guest:Yeah, he's had powerful well.
Guest:Let's say that.
Marc:He's had powerful well.
Marc:Because when I was growing up, when I was a little kid, I remember when like Idi Amin was culturally the guy in charge because he made such a global sort of impact.
Marc:Like everybody knew who Idi Amin was.
Marc:It was crazy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:My mom met him.
Guest:Your mom met him?
Guest:Yeah, I remember when Last King of Scotland came out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, oh, my last King of Scotland.
Guest:And she was like, oh, I met him.
Guest:I was like, what?
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:Now you tell me that you met him?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Now it's like, what happened?
Guest:She's like, yeah, he visited my primary school, which is like an elementary school.
Guest:He visited and she shook his hand.
Guest:I said, what was he like?
Guest:He said, he was big.
Guest:I was like, yeah, well, I can see that.
Guest:If you're a little girl, I can see how that makes sense.
Guest:But, yeah, so, yeah, like, you know what I mean?
Guest:The stuff I haven't, there's people in my life that I've kind of been exposed to.
Guest:I'm like, oh, like I need, I want to arrive to it from an independent thought and perspective as opposed to, because a lot of things in life you kind of just, you've only heard through other people's opinions on what they think.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So I kind of wanted to really educate myself on that when I got some time.
Guest:Did you do it or you haven't yet?
Guest:I haven't yet.
Guest:I know stuff.
Guest:If I watch Last King of Scotland, I'm like, yeah, that's a director's point of view.
Guest:That's a narrator's point of view about it.
Guest:So I kind of go, I take that, but I...
Guest:How can I have an opinion on Idi Amin if I watch the film or read a couple of articles or heard a couple of stories?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've just stumbled across, you know, as opposed to purposely go, oh, I want to grow more about this.
Guest:I want to learn more about this.
Marc:Well, so did your mother left before she could really have an assessment of his of his leadership or what he did to the country?
Marc:How old was she when she left?
Guest:she um i don't know how old yeah she left just before i was born so really when she left yeah so um what did she leave did she run away or did she just want to move i don't know i think it was a light jog it was a light
Guest:She was like, I bet she was late for the plane is what happened.
Guest:So she was like, let me jog my way to the airport.
Guest:Like, while I was pregnant.
Guest:But yeah, no, she just wanted more opportunities.
Guest:She just wanted more for me.
Guest:She wanted more for her family.
Guest:And she just decided, yeah, let's go.
Marc:And what did she do when you were going up for work?
Marc:She works with kids.
Marc:She works with special needs kids.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:She did that, yeah.
Guest:She's got great energy.
Guest:She must be proud of you.
Guest:She's cool, man.
Guest:She's tough.
Guest:It was my birthday a few weeks ago and then she sent me a birthday card and was like, yo, it's amazing.
Guest:And she never congratulated me without saying, I hope you know what's next.
Guest:question mark or we're looking forward to seeing what's next question oh the pressure always keep i wouldn't even you know what it is i used to feel it was pressure yeah now i'm just like you know what it's the truth because like a lot of times you get these kind of instances and it's not it's not necessarily the thing if anything comes quickly it's not the thing
Guest:I mean, it's like, it's like, all right, cool.
Guest:So like when people ask me before I got Oscar nominated and that, I was like, yeah, it's like a, it's like a master's.
Guest:I mean, it's like you get a master's.
Guest:It's not like you've completed life because you've got a master's.
Guest:What are you going to do with it?
Guest:Right.
Guest:How are you going to use it?
Guest:That's how I see these like checkpoints in my life.
Guest:I go, oh, wow, this is incredible.
Guest:This fact is coming now.
Guest:There's a master P quote.
Guest:He said, if this white man thinks I'm worth 1 million, then I'm at least worth 10.
Guest:And I see that as the same principle going, oh, wow, if this has come to me now, what else can I get?
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:What else is there?
Guest:And I think that's a mentality that she really instilled in me.
Guest:I think that's like my sentence because of she's just like, is there more?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Don't settle.
Guest:Are you able to grow?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, are you a bigger tree?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Are you going to go, is this my height?
Guest:Are you a bigger tree?
Guest:You're never going to tell a tree to stop growing.
Guest:How big can you grow?
Guest:If a tree grows really big, at a certain point, you're not going to go, oh, well, you're big enough.
Guest:You're going at your own.
Marc:Eventually, you say, we could build a house out of this.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I'm going to chop it down, i.e.
Marc:capitalism.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:We can spread this tree out without it being alive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Let's make some paper.
Marc:Let's make some money.
Marc:A lot of paper.
Guest:Cut this tree and make some money.
Guest:So, yeah.
Marc:It's interesting what you say about Idi Amin in terms of trying to find a point of view on him for yourself because it strikes me that I barely knew...
Marc:The Fred Hampton story, you know, I knew like when I watched the movie, I'm like, oh, I know this story, kind of.
Marc:I remember this, but I had no specifics of it.
Marc:And I wonder, you know, like, how did you inform yourself or make his experience your experience in the way that you were satisfied in terms of taking him on?
Yeah.
Marc:That's a really interesting question.
Marc:Can you say that again?
Guest:In what sense do you mean?
Marc:I mean, in the sense that in the way that you were just talking about Edie, you hear a lot of stories, you read a lot, but you don't really necessarily know if you have your own opinion of him or know enough about him to talk about him from your own point of view.
Marc:But it seems like in order to play Fred Hampton, that you would have to really absorb a lot in order to
Marc:you know, become him from from internally.
Marc:And I was just wondering, you know, where did that start and how did you do that?
Marc:Because now, whether you like it or not, you're going to be intrinsically, you know, tied to Fred Hampton in the sense in the cultural mind, because a lot of people don't know that story.
Marc:A lot of young people don't know that story.
Marc:And you're going to be their point of reference.
Marc:And it's interesting.
Marc:You did you did a great job, I thought.
Marc:And I was just curious, given the way you think and you're
Marc:sort of your passion for the present, you know, how did you start the work on that?
Marc:It's scary work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If I'm being honest with you, it's to, because I think what you're hinting on is that you'll get to a point where you'll have to
Guest:make a decision and go, this is, this is, this is it.
Guest:And this is as much as I know at this point.
Guest:This is the guy.
Guest:And then we're going to move forward.
Guest:And you know what I mean?
Guest:And we're going to have to move forward in a certain direction.
Guest:I think because Shaka King, the director of Judah's incredible director, he like,
Guest:I remember he mentioned that the Black Panther had a reading list.
Guest:So I asked him for the reading list.
Guest:So in order to be a fully fledged Panther, you needed to go on six weeks of political education.
Guest:So I had this reading list.
Guest:I was reading the reading list before, way before shoot.
Guest:And I was just taking it in before the green light.
Guest:I was just kind of, let me, I would, I wanted to read it anyway.
Guest:Like what was I reading it?
Guest:It was like Chairman Mao, Marcus Garvey, Franz Fanon, a lot of communist, left-wing, fascinating teachings and strategies and outlooks and ideas and concepts and perspectives.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:And I was just taking all that stuff in.
Guest:And then like Malcolm X is on it as well.
Guest:Malcolm X's biography.
Guest:And I was taking all that stuff in and I was like, oh, it got to a point where I can't stop being in my head about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was reading it in order to kind of, I didn't want to look at the Panthers and at Chairman Fred.
Guest:I wanted to look with
Guest:the Panthers and with Chairman Friend.
Guest:But I get to the point where you're going to have to step up and embody him.
Guest:Be that vessel for him and look at him as an individual and do the words and go for the voice.
Guest:And yeah, so you start that.
Guest:And then Shaka did an incredible job by pushing me.
Guest:I think a year before the shoot, we did the speeches.
Guest:We did his actual speeches.
Guest:A year?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:a year before the shoot, we did these actual speeches.
Guest:And when I hadn't done any dialect work, I hadn't done anything, it was just a guesstimate.
Guest:And then we did that and then we recorded it and it was a lot, it was so important.
Guest:It took me a month to watch it, but because it was really, I was kind of, I was nervous.
Guest:But no, I was nervous.
Guest:I just knew the minute I watched it, I'll start working.
Guest:I start going, that's not, I want to fine tune that.
Guest:I want to fine tune this.
Guest:This doesn't sound like him.
Guest:This doesn't sound like him.
Guest:But it was so important to do it.
Guest:And then watching it, it was like, it was never as bad as I thought it was going to be.
Guest:I mean, and then you just kind of go, all right, cool.
Guest:This is manageable.
Guest:And then we just built from there.
Guest:But yeah.
Guest:And then with Audrey LeCrone, incredible dialect coach,
Guest:did a lot of work in looking at his speeches and XYZ and I took myself to Chicago, went to Maywood, went to his hometown, went to his old schools and his old homes, all these places.
Guest:And it was, it's like, it's like a treasure hunt.
Guest:You don't actually know what you're looking for.
Guest:You don't know.
Guest:You just know I want to be in a space.
Guest:I want to be in an environment that allows me to think in a certain way.
Guest:That allows me to make decisions and grow something and move me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Cellularly, move me and spiritually move me in his space.
Guest:Because I would look at his speeches and go, I want to move an audience the way I feel moved by him.
Marc:Were you able to understand the social...
Marc:and political momentum and message of the Panthers in terms of truly believing them?
Guest:I think I believed it beforehand.
Guest:I just didn't have those words.
Guest:I didn't have those.
Guest:I wasn't exposed to that material.
Guest:But I knew being a young black man navigating a Western society might be in the majority of white space most times.
Guest:there is a, there is a frustration, especially if you love yourself, especially if you respect yourself, there is a frustration of the resistance that you get from that.
Guest:I mean, and my, you, you, it creates a, you know what I mean?
Guest:It creates an energy that, that I feel the Panther Party represented.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when me taking that in, it allowed me to, it was almost soothing to me.
Guest:It was like, it made me feel less crazy.
Guest:Made me feel like, yeah, like I don't feel like I'm, I'm,
Guest:wild to be in a world commanding what my spirit is.
Guest:I'm just being what I am.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:It's the audacity for people to believe that it's theirs to give to me.
Guest:I mean, how can you give that to me?
Guest:It's like, I am that.
Guest:And so they embodied that.
Guest:They had the words for that.
Guest:They had the kind of strategies and the plans for that.
Guest:And they did it through feeding kids.
Guest:Do you know what I'm saying?
Guest:Feeding kids with a breakfast program, educating kids with free medical care in Chicago, with all the number.
Guest:And with the Rainbow Coalition, it was a level of empowerment.
Guest:So it was just like, oh, wow, they...
Guest:This already happened.
Guest:My feelings already happened.
Guest:People already did it.
Guest:It's just deepened what was already there.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's how I felt.
Guest:It's more in my body.
Guest:It's more in my... Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:It's like it shows how...
Guest:dangerous fear can be.
Guest:And people are scared.
Guest:These people are scared.
Guest:These people are petrified.
Guest:And it's dressed as hate.
Guest:It's dressed as hate.
Guest:But the naked body is fear.
Guest:That's probably what is opened, not opened, deepened.
Guest:I know this.
Guest:It's not something that I'm like, I'm like...
Guest:I've, like, learned.
Guest:It's like something navigating, really navigating and really, in London, really occupying the black spaces.
Guest:And it's probably, you know, England's a white country, so it's quite pronounced over there with that discrepancy, but probably in a more subtle, polite way, the oppression.
Guest:But, yeah, you know what's possible and what they can do.
Guest:if fear takes the driving seat.
Guest:I know everything is possible if fear takes the driving seat.
Marc:I just recently have become, more in the last five years, the difference between the sort of class system and also between colonialism and slavery being the foundation of the racism in the two different countries.
Marc:I don't know why I would never have... I guess I didn't grow up understanding colonialism or really taking in the damage that that sort of reaped on the whole thing.
Guest:Yeah, because you know, British are great.
Guest:Their branding budget in terms of racism is amazing.
Guest:So it's like, so they make you feel like that ain't really happening.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:It's like, it's not really happening.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:It's God, it's Christianity.
Guest:Boom, through this book and it's God, this and this, listen to this.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:We just want, we just want everything.
Guest:We want everything.
Guest:We'll give you independence.
Guest:We'll give you independence.
Guest:You're independent.
Guest:You're independent.
Guest:But we control everything.
Guest:You're independent.
Guest:You're free.
Guest:You're free.
Guest:It was in the 60s.
Guest:You're free.
Guest:So it's like, and so, yeah, I speak English.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So it's, you speak English, you know, and you're not in England.
Guest:You know, there's a lot happening.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That's in plain sight.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's like...
Guest:So it's just like, you've got to just look and go, look at what we're doing.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's like, and yeah, that's the power of that level of thinking and how deep the intention is from that space.
Guest:The empire runs deep.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then I think true revolution is internally revolting that.
Guest:Internally.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:And going, nope.
Guest:No, no, no, I don't abide by that.
Guest:I don't abide by that.
Guest:I don't abide by that.
Guest:In order to revolt, you've got to see it.
Guest:And some things you think that it's empire, that it's actually, you look at it as you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's actually something that is used to control you internally so you keep on.
Guest:So I'm a firm believer, but in a revolution, in an evolution, you know what I'm saying, in order to kind of just be yourself.
Guest:It's an occupier in your body.
Marc:It's a host.
Marc:You're hosting a virus.
Guest:A host.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's the real pandemic, my guy.
Marc:Colonization.
Marc:Yeah, I agree.
Marc:But how was it with... How did you get along with Lakeith?
Marc:Good?
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:Lakeith's cool, man.
Guest:Lakeith's cool.
Guest:Me and... Been from... We go way back now.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah, we met him... I met him just before we shot Get Out.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Just before we shot Get Out.
Guest:I saw him at Sundance.
Guest:And then... And yeah, it was just... We just on this... We kind of, like, had these really...
Guest:kind of i feel like we're on the same journey oh yeah because we kind of times when we meet and we're doing something random when we was like doing like a monologue like monologue for like south african kids like like the raised chariot carnegie hall but we was in the same dressing room it was like yeah you have these kind of moments like wow this has happened wow this has happened so get out and judas are two very um yeah significant moments
Marc:It's like I found his character to be, you know, the idea of selfishness and self-preservation versus community and community preservation.
Marc:It was like I thought it was a really smart script, man.
Guest:Yeah, no, it was really intelligently written by Shaka King and Will Burst and then the Lucas Brothers.
Guest:It was their idea.
Marc:I know those guys.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:Yeah, it was their idea.
Guest:And it was it was such an interesting way to get into it and really, really kind of see chairman's politics.
Guest:in debate and in conflict with the FBI ideology and Lakeith being, Lakeith O'Neill being a host for that ideology.
Guest:You know, so it's, in that sense, it was, you can kind of understand more about, you know, I always say that in order to see who Chairman Fred is, you've got to show who he isn't.
Guest:And that's like the point of William O'Neill in this film is to amplify Chairman Fred.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Did you talk, were you able to talk to his family at all?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So the Chicago trip, I went to the Chicago trip in order to talk to the family.
Guest:Couldn't on that trip because of legal stuff and politics and stuff like that.
Guest:And we went a few weeks later with Dominique Fishback, who plays Deborah Johnson, Mamakou in the film and all the producers and Chaka and Will.
Guest:And we went there and yeah, man, like we sat down and
Guest:And we had an eight-hour meeting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was interesting with Chairman Fred Jr.
Guest:and Mama Kua.
Guest:And it was just, I mean, we was in a Hampton home.
Guest:And it was intense.
Guest:It was intense.
Guest:It was asking us a lot of questions, but more asking us about who we are as people and what's our intentions.
Guest:really for this this job and what then what's the job it is to tell the story and what's our intentions in terms of like in art like what's your why do you make art why do people make art wow you know so it was very um it was a you had to i had to you had to dig deep and just be honest yeah to be honest and and i really respected it because he's just like well if you're flipping um
Guest:playing Chairman Fred, I need to know who you are.
Guest:I want to know who you are.
Marc:That was his son?
Marc:It was his son, yeah.
Marc:And did you walk away from that feeling?
Marc:Did you guys feel good about it?
Marc:Yeah, I felt cool.
Guest:I felt cool.
Guest:I don't necessarily assume that if you meet someone once, they're like, oh, yeah, the best buddies.
Guest:I was just going to go, yeah, like, I came out of it.
Guest:I was honest.
Guest:I was just honest.
Guest:I was me.
Guest:I was just like, this is me.
Guest:This is where I'm at.
Guest:This is my wife.
Guest:This is, yeah, and then like...
Guest:And then he took us to a couple areas in Chicago.
Guest:And then, yeah, we've kept in touch.
Guest:So, yeah, me and Chairman speak quite regularly, so that's cool.
Marc:What a fucking, like, you know, outside of, like, now I feel like an asshole for even asking you about the Golden Globes in light of the life experience you were given because of this.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:I don't think you're an asshole, bro.
Guest:I don't think you're an asshole.
Guest:But that's what I'm trying to say.
Guest:A lot of times it's like –
Guest:You know, it is, I think I said it in the speech, it's like when you give everything to something, you're just free.
Guest:So it's like, it's kind of like, it's not even like I don't care.
Guest:It's just like, you can't like, the stuff that I can't open up, the stuff I saw and the stuff that happened after it, in terms of like, the cost that it takes on your body to play play.
Guest:someone like that to be a vessel for someone like that in the way that I did it is a huge cost it's not a joke this process made me deeply respect acting more and deeply respect the process more because it's no joke so it's that kind of thing where like when you get awarded you're kind of like
Guest:You're happy, but you know, it's just, you just know the cost.
Guest:You just know the cost.
Guest:So it's just a different, you're just looking at a completely different point of view.
Guest:Cause I'm just like, there's a real, there's a real, I know there's a real cost here.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And so it's the, and also, yeah, like that experience and the people you meet is, I just find that incredible.
Marc:When you say cost, like in respect, I mean, you, you, you did a great job, you know, you did a great job, but what, what specifically you, what the cost is, what it took you through emotionally.
Guest:Mostly I had some health issues at the end.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So it's that thing where I had to look at that and pick myself back up.
Guest:What, from exhaustion?
Guest:Yeah, a lot of things.
Guest:It was a lot of things.
Guest:It was a real shutdown.
Guest:When you are in that space, you're just like, oh, wow.
Guest:Like this is the tax.
Guest:This is the cost.
Guest:This is the cost.
Guest:So when something's really expensive, you really want to be like, wow, this is really expensive.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:So it's just like whatever you get from it, you're like, wow, I know the real value.
Guest:I know the real cost of going in that direction.
Guest:So it's almost like a, it's a humbling experience like winning a Golden Globe because you're just like, okay, cool.
Guest:Like, okay, I get it.
Guest:It's just that, but I had to live it, you know, and I'm just not going to,
Guest:I'm not going to... When you have those experiences and you give all of your heart, you're liberated from the opinions of others outside of you.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:And you kind of go, wow, I'm grateful that even like, yo, I'm going to go out there and more people are going to watch Judas because I won a Golden Globe or got nominated for an Oscar.
Guest:And Lakeith got nominated for an Oscar.
Guest:The film got nominated for an Oscar.
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:But then you're just like, you're just operating on a different- Right, you're right.
Marc:Because if you go in, what did you say?
Marc:If you go with all your heart, you're free.
Marc:I like that because you have to be conscious of that.
Marc:You know, like that's something you have to learn about yourself and appreciate because you might miss that too, right?
Guest:It's interesting.
Guest:It's like the fear is giving your heart.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:It's like how many times has fear stopped you from giving all of your heart?
Guest:So it stopped you from actually tasting true freedom.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:You know, and like the true freedom is really still, is really silent.
Guest:It's really, it just is.
Guest:Like, it's just like Golden Globe winners just is.
Guest:Something bad happens just is.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's like, it's just like, boom.
Guest:It just is.
Guest:And so, but it's like you, when you give everything, you taste that.
Guest:You taste reality.
Guest:You don't taste other people's triggers.
Guest:You don't taste perception.
Guest:You don't taste judgment.
Guest:You don't say, you just taste reality.
Guest:You go, this is what it is.
Guest:They just give him this.
Guest:These body of people have given me an award for something they have seen.
Guest:That's nice.
Yeah.
Guest:That's quite a kind thing to do.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's like, and that's not to downplay it.
Guest:It's not to downplay it.
Guest:It's not downplay it, but it's just like, you've just gone on a journey and you've given all this, like,
Marc:this my heart bro my spirit like is that it's all of me yeah is this this is spiritual spiritual idea is this something that do you like do you have a practice that enabled you to see things this way in what sense like a meditation practice a buddhist practice because it just or or you know a god practice no i just that's how you just feel it
Guest:I just feel it.
Guest:Like, it's just the truth.
Guest:I felt that when I, when I did plays back in the day, when I did plays back in the day and I did this play, I played a boxer.
Guest:They called Sucker Punch at the Royal Court.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I played a boxer and I trained for three months and I lost like 42 pounds in three months.
Guest:And I was playing a lightweight boxer.
Guest:And then the last show,
Guest:i remember i was like the lines is where do i go what do i do and then i was there i was looking at everyone and i was just thinking and i just like literally broke down on stage and but actually worked for the scene so it's all right but you're just looking at everyone and like i really cared what everyone thought i really cared yeah and like and i'll just look at people and they're gonna write their reviews and i'm like you didn't do three minute planks with me
Guest:You didn't, you just, you know what I'm trying to say?
Guest:Like, how can you, like, you're not equipped to even capture this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, not even like in a kind of, like in an egotistic, it's just like, bro, I already gave you my body.
Guest:I gave you everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How can you, how can you put that into words?
Guest:And I was free.
Guest:I looked at everyone.
Guest:I was like, everyone, it's whatever, man.
Guest:How people feel is whatever.
Guest:I want people to have a good time.
Guest:I want them to connect.
Guest:I want audiences to trust me as a person that's going to give a nice vibe of a story and learn something new and interesting.
Guest:But it's just that kind of going, wow, when you give it all, you're just like, meh.
Guest:yeah you take it up and you're just like but then i realized before i really believed that i'm like right this casting director means this and this this that this reviewer means this and this position means that when you give everything about all that goes right you don't even look at it anymore yeah i i i can understand that and i and i and i do like i have felt that before but you know you're fortunate to feel it where have you felt that when have you felt that
Marc:I believe that that last special I did after doing comedy for 35, 40 years was the best thing I ever did.
Marc:I could see my entire life's work in it.
Marc:I've been doing stand-up since I was in my early 20s, and I think that special I did last year with my girlfriend at the time directing was really the best work I'd done, and it felt I could let it go.
Marc:You know, I saw that, you know, I was in it and I worked hard for it and I was, you know, and my heart was all in it.
Marc:And I accepted that.
Marc:I didn't look at it and go like, ah, why did I do that?
Marc:Or how come I could have?
Marc:It was the first time that I was like, you know, that's great work.
Guest:What do you feel shifted in you?
Guest:What do you feel shifted in you for you to even allow yourself to give that much of your heart?
Marc:Well, some of it had to do with that woman.
Guest:Was it about the woman that you felt safe?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:We were partners for a while.
Marc:We were involved.
Marc:She passed away about a year ago.
Marc:I'm so sorry.
Marc:So, like, that was there, but also the gift that she gave me in terms of believing in myself as a performer.
Marc:Like, I spent a lot of time beating the shit out of myself and doing a type of comedy that was aggressive and angry.
Marc:Still is a little bit, but I think there was something about her in my life at that time that grounded me in something, right?
Marc:And that opened my heart.
Marc:So now, you know, in light of that, to keep it open, I just did another movie a few months ago where I really kind of, like...
Marc:Like you said, I sort of honored the acting and really tried to figure out what was great about it.
Marc:And I went all in.
Marc:I did a dialect.
Marc:I did a guy that wasn't innately me.
Marc:I couldn't just autopilot it.
Marc:I really had to do the work.
Marc:And I felt better about it.
Marc:I feel really like something moved in my heart.
Marc:And I'm not completely comfortable with that, but I kind of understand what you're saying.
Guest:I'm really happy that you got to that place, though.
Guest:You mean?
Guest:Because the thing is about that place, it's not supposed to be comfortable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's how you find true comfort.
Guest:You know, it's like you kind of feel like, oh, they kind of teach you and condition you to feel like everything should feel comfortable in order to grow to your tallest height as a tree.
Guest:Right.
Guest:No, you got to have some rain.
Guest:It's got to come.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Some birds got to come and like eat your bark or something like that.
Guest:This stuff has got to happen.
Guest:And it's uncomfortable growing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's uncomfortable being free.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And keeping your heart open, buddy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But being free is comfortable.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:It's over.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:I don't think understanding that type of freedom, you know, you can talk about that as a word, but you know, if it's personal, it's in your heart, it's tricky business.
Marc:You know, you want to try to get it done before you go down.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Down where?
Marc:Where do you mean?
Marc:Dead.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But then you'll come back.
Guest:You'll come back and you have to figure out again.
Guest:This is a whole game, man.
Guest:This is a whole like, it's all the computer games got that idea from you.
Guest:You didn't figure out freedom.
Guest:All right, here you go.
Guest:Back again.
Guest:Similar coordinates.
Guest:Here you go.
Guest:One more bam.
Guest:You got to figure this out.
Guest:I think that you just got to figure it.
Guest:I think you got to figure things out.
Marc:Did you guys really shoot that last, the assassination on the anniversary of his assassination?
Guest:We shot the poisoning scene.
Guest:We shot that on the 50th anniversary of his assassination, yeah.
Guest:So, yeah, that was, Mark, I've never experienced a day like that, where, like, my emotions took over my day.
Guest:Like, it was like, I'm usually kind of, like, put me to a side when I'm working.
Guest:And then, like, but my emotions and how I felt about Chairman Fred and how I felt about what happened,
Guest:really came to the fore and for Lakeith in a real way as well.
Guest:So, yeah, we did the speech, me and Shaka did a speech at the beginning of the day and just honouring him and just realising that 50 years later, this man still is bringing people together.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:In this one room in Cleveland.
Guest:In his house, in a mock-up of his house, 50 years later, you know, and I'm standing here dressed as Chairman Fred.
Guest:It's a very surreal... And then when I was doing the scene, there's the bit when I was doing the scene and like...
Guest:He has to decide about prison, X, Y, Z. And so that, I mean, I was resisting to the emotions that I was feeling.
Guest:Then I realized that you just got to accept it and use it.
Guest:It's the truth of what's happening.
Guest:You've got to go lean into it.
Guest:So a lot of that was part of that, the kind of intensity of that day.
Marc:But it's like when you have something to honor, when you're actually engaged, like it's a very rare experience, but there's almost a ritual element to it that you guys were so aware of that and you were summoning something and you were getting closure and moving forward at the same time in this space of this anniversary.
Marc:And, you know, what a rare and amazing day that is to make that show.
Guest:That's what I'm going to say.
Guest:It's like this stuff like –
Guest:what day that like to experience those kinds of emotions, to even just be aligned, to be on that path.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You are in a mock-up of his house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The day of his 50th anniversary, filming that scene.
Guest:Unbelievable.
Guest:You're just like, you had an experience that you just can't, you can't buy.
Guest:You can't purchase.
Guest:You can't, you just have to be it.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:And that is just like, it's incredible.
Guest:Looking back, it's incredible.
Guest:And I feel really blessed to be a part of.
Marc:So were you always,
Marc:a serious actor or how, when, how you've been acting a long time, like since you were a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Since I was like 13 and got into it.
Guest:13 improv.
Guest:Someone like.
Guest:Improv.
Guest:Comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I got into comedy first.
Guest:I was doing comedy.
Guest:I was doing comedy back in the day.
Guest:I did a lot of comedy shows, a lot of comedy skits.
Guest:I used to do sketches on, on YouTube, like musical parodies.
Guest:He used to do all of that stuff.
Guest:Like majority of my career before Sicario was comedy.
Guest:Um,
Guest:And, um, and like, um, and so, yeah.
Guest:And, and, and so improv and improv is like the biggest reaction you would get is sometimes you would make kids laugh.
Guest:It was, it was this place called Anna share and basically pay five pounds and you go, you go and there's just kids that are from estates as well.
Guest:And then you kind of go there and it's like for underprivileged kids and you go there and you kind of like, um, you have this big stage and I was looking at you and it's like me and you Mark doing the scene.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The teacher goes,
Guest:First line, why did you do that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you got to go.
Guest:Right.
Guest:A 13-year-old doing that is petrifying.
Guest:And if you're rubbish, if you're crap, yeah, they just laugh at you.
Guest:Or they'll text or they'll get bored.
Guest:It's kids watching.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But it was such an incredible training ground because they were honest.
Guest:They were like, we don't think you're that interesting.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:And like, you got to do something interesting.
Guest:So I realized that like, and I, I was a joker at school, but it took a while before I could really be able to feel confident in bringing that funny element, that comedic element into that.
Guest:improv and then so i did that and then you did you actually did like uh tv shows like sketch shows and stuff right yeah i did harry and paul i did mitchell and webb is there a rule in england that you have to name a sketch show after two guys or how's that's that's i think that's a mandate i think that's the law it's two white men have to uh yeah that's how it is yeah yeah yeah yeah boris and tony yeah
Marc:So that's all your experience was in comedy.
Marc:That's a trip, man.
Marc:Because Sicario, I love that movie.
Marc:I watch it a lot.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:And you were great.
Marc:I love that film as well.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Because I'm a guy as well who has spent his life in comedy and I'm doing serious roles.
Marc:And what was your first experience with that coming out of comedy?
Marc:Because for me, my comedy is pretty serious, but I can be funny.
Marc:But I'm pretty serious and I'm pretty, you know...
Guest:uh emotional and like when i started to do it feel comfortable with it it was sort of a relief to not be funny yeah you know what it is it's like it's funny it's funny it's funny it's like i remember i was 19 i did this show called psychoville amazing show like did you watch um the league of gentlemen have you watched that this british show league of gentlemen kind of surreal comedy kind of i know i didn't watch it the guys that steve pemberton reese smith
Guest:Mark Gatiss wrote it as well.
Guest:And then, yeah, and then, like, they did, Stephen Rees did a show called Psychoville.
Guest:I did Psychoville when I was, like, 19.
Guest:It was a comedy show, kind of like a horror comedy show.
Guest:It's really funny, really interesting.
Guest:And then I was 19 doing it, and the director, Matt Lipsy,
Guest:I was doing this scene, like this is how surreal it is.
Guest:I was like trying to get some keys off these Siamese twins in the van.
Guest:And then like one of them woken up and I had to kiss them.
Guest:It was the whole, and then like, and then it's doing that.
Guest:And then I think I did a line and I did it in a certain way.
Guest:And it didn't ring true to me, but I just did it.
Guest:And he pulled me to the side, Matt pulled me to the side and said, Daniel, and literally said something that would change my life forever.
Guest:Daniel, never play the funny, always play the truth.
Guest:and just walked away.
Guest:It was like a boom, that's a foundation.
Guest:No matter what the script is or what the genre is, if I'm playing the truth and the writer's truth and the perspective's truth, then I did this show called The Fades, which is an incredible writer, Jack Thorne.
Guest:And the character's really funny.
Guest:He's like this geeky guy.
Guest:He's really funny.
Guest:On paper, you're like laughing out loud.
Guest:But a lot of funny people don't think they're funny.
Guest:They're just being honest.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:And so just saying the lines in a really truthful way allows the audience to find it funny, is how I felt like.
Guest:So then pivoting out into more serious or doing more serious stuff, it's kind of both disciplines help each other because when you're doing dramatic things, you are more in tune with rhythm and timing.
Guest:You understand the importance of rhythm and timing for story purposes to hit a certain way.
Guest:So a beat can hit a certain way because in comedy, it's all about rhythm and timing.
Guest:So it's that kind of like... And so that would help that.
Guest:And then your truth thing would help your serious stuff and help your comedy stuff, which is because serious is all about truth and it will help your comedy stuff.
Guest:And this is that and the other.
Guest:So I always had that kind of different avenues because when I did improv, I would just go...
Guest:I would just challenge myself.
Guest:So a lot of my improv sometimes was serious.
Guest:I would just challenge myself.
Guest:You could just play and go, what am I scared of?
Guest:What haven't I done?
Guest:Like, go there, just do that.
Guest:Boom, just do that in that way.
Guest:Just do that in that way and take the scene a certain way.
Guest:So I like diversifying, like, I would call them flows, like skill sets.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And also, I think a lot of what I have learned from doing comedy, from doing improv, I would imagine, too, is that you really learn how to own your space on stage or on screen or in a scene.
Marc:I think that timing, what you're talking about, that sort of being grounded in what you're doing in your own honesty and taking your time is something that you're very good at and something that's necessary.
Guest:thank you but you know what it is it's like i see it with olivia coleman because i don't know if you know about olivia coleman like you know you know her back you know her background is comedy yeah sure that makes sense yeah yeah so she's like she was in this really big she was in mitchell and webb as well she was in in that show about two white men with you and then like and then and then i actually i met her at 18 and she gave me the most amazing advice at 18 and we shared a car which is so lovely
Guest:She was, I was deciding whether I was going to drama school or working, doing this acting thing.
Guest:And I didn't have, I didn't really, no one in my life was doing acting.
Guest:So I didn't really have anyone to turn to, to ask for advice about what should I do in my life?
Guest:I was 18 and everyone was telling me to go to school and she weighed up the options and was like, it sounds like you want to just do it.
Guest:And I know that's like, it's scary because everyone thinks you're going to mess up, but you can always go back.
Guest:And I was like, yeah.
Guest:And then I'll never forget that.
Guest:She was so amazing.
Guest:But anyway, Olivia,
Guest:She's like, when you see like someone like Tyrannosaur, have you watched Tyrannosaur?
Guest:That was the first time I saw her do serious work.
Guest:So Paddy Considine film and Peter Mullins in it, like an indie in England.
Guest:And then like, anyway, she's doing that.
Guest:And then I realised that like her comedy, what happens is, is that you know the pockets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You just know the pockets.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And when you transfer that, that understanding, because if you're in a funny scene, you just know the pocket.
Guest:Like, you know, like you look at a scene and go, what's the funniest thing about this scene?
Guest:All right.
Guest:Cool.
Guest:How can I make that hit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sometimes it's not your line.
Guest:How can I make that hit?
Guest:I need to hit it like, oh.
Guest:And boom.
Guest:So it's that kind of.
Guest:So when I see her go into the drama space, she just knows the pockets.
Guest:Like she just knows the pockets.
Guest:And that's I think you like you just have to take it because you have to make someone laugh objectively away from you.
Guest:But you can't find that funny and you have to find a pocket.
Marc:But the pocket has to do with how the character fits.
Marc:I mean, it's a definition of character, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because I just watched her and I just watched Fleabag again.
Marc:And she's like a genius in that.
Marc:And it's a completely horrific comedic character.
Marc:The insecurity of it and, you know, the self-involvement of it.
Marc:But she plays it completely straight.
Marc:And it's like just brutal comedy, that thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It keeps it real.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The nose to pocket.
Guest:That will be the funniest version of real.
Guest:It's just something you can't.
Guest:You just go.
Guest:I see Olivia.
Guest:I'm like, oh, she just gets it.
Guest:She just gets it.
Guest:I think she's delicious.
Guest:It's like when she acts, I find it delicious.
Marc:And you grew up looking at watching her, right?
Marc:Because she was on a lot of television, right?
Guest:She's on TV.
Guest:She's on Peep Show.
Guest:This show called Peep Show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:By Mitchell and Webb.
Guest:And then like, and it was really, it was, uh,
Guest:she was just so funny in it and really, really like she was a leading lady in it.
Guest:And it was just like, it was so amazing to see her pivot and now become this big star.
Guest:But it's, but yeah, so there's a lot of people that you grew up just watching and go, oh yeah, like they were about and they were like, they were like Martin Freeman.
Guest:Martin Freeman is, I think Martin Freeman is the king of pockets.
Guest:Like I think he's like, he's great.
Guest:Like I would say I'm like, he's almost like a lot, there's so many, he's got so many sons.
Guest:yeah he's got so many sons and so many daughters his performance in the office yeah yeah has so many sons and so many daughters yeah like because every and like him and sherlock he just knows how to hit it yeah he just hits it bro and he's just like and it's just about it's just and it's like he's it's like it's not happening and he's still telling the story but he's still and when you actually engage with him yeah it's like when it's like you know what marty freeman's like it's like
Guest:when you're watching a game and you see a player and then they're doing their thing and you go, oh yeah, no, it's cool.
Guest:And then when you watch him, you're like, this guy is incredible.
Guest:But when the game's happening, you can't really see what's happening.
Guest:But like, yeah, he's got like, I think everyone is like so many comedies, like how people deliver, especially men, how white men deliver their lines is a result of Martin Freeman idea.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:It's like he just went about in the office and he does this way.
Guest:And then everyone is everyone just took it and ran with it.
Guest:I think I said it.
Guest:I met him.
Guest:I said I said it to him.
Guest:I think he was a bit drunk.
Guest:So I don't know if you remember.
Guest:But yeah, so I find in pockets.
Marc:They took the drive shaft of Martin.
Marc:They took the engine and then they worked it into their own engine.
Guest:yeah the people are just by Osmos but like subconsciously inspired by what he's doing there do you know what I'm saying it's like because he because really and truly Ricky Gervais is the funny man David Brent's the funny funny man like and like
Guest:martin's character has the story in the office and saying he has the story it's kind of like josh um john krasinski in in the american like that guy that character same characters has a story yeah but yeah he's one of those slow burn guys and he like he really kind of his he takes his time and you know he you know he lets things sit it's you know it's it's owning that space man it's very confident it's very confident you have to be very confident in what you do in order to go i know this is a comedy i'm still gonna play it in this way
Guest:It's an audacious position.
Guest:That's why I respect it.
Guest:I cropped that in Sicario.
Guest:Again, I was in Sicario and it was all of them.
Guest:They were just like audacious.
Guest:They were like nothing less.
Guest:Benicio would be just cutting lines.
Guest:Less, less, less, less, less.
Guest:And then I was like, wow, I didn't understand it because I thought they were like, ah, they cheating.
Guest:This is like, this is like, but it's that thing where like, it's just like you, you know, just distill it to what actually matters.
Guest:But to do that in a comedy is like very difficult.
Guest:Your instinct is to go, I want to make the crew laugh.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And it's just like, no, the audience will laugh when the situation is funnier.
Marc:And what was the process like with Jordan?
Guest:It's amazing because Jordan comes from an improv background.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:It was like, we just kind of get it.
Guest:We just get each other.
Guest:On set, you can kind of be loose with it.
Guest:And like and go, yeah, this isn't working.
Guest:And we are both confident that we'll find something new.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And like we'll be doing a take and it wouldn't and we don't know what is going to work.
Guest:And we just try it out in the take.
Guest:I mean, it's like it's just that it's kind of like it's just very much from the same school of thinking in terms of how you guys improvised a lot.
Guest:yeah, there was a lot of, and with Alison as well, Alison contributed a lot.
Guest:She's got improvisation background as well.
Guest:So it was like a lot of improv and a lot of like, like even like the give me the keys scene was like improvised.
Guest:That was like in the moment, like we kind of, it was a whole scene and we kind of took it out to bare bones and it was just like, give me the keys.
Guest:And we did that.
Guest:And then like, and there was a couple other scenes that are a couple other moments that just improv and made up in a moment.
Guest:And, and Jordan is, yeah, he's just like, he gets it.
Guest:He's like,
Guest:But he's an actor.
Marc:Yeah, but also I think he had such a specific vision of what that movie was gonna look like that you guys had space.
Marc:So he knew exactly what the space he was providing and how it was all gonna fit.
Marc:Those people who can direct like that, who know that no matter what's going on on set, they're editing it in their head as they go along.
Marc:So they have the freedom to take those chances.
Guest:Yeah, and I think it just gave me space.
Guest:For me, it was like because the story was so strong, the writing was so strong, that it kind of allowed me to really practice the art of refinement, like to give a really refined, minimalist performance.
Guest:So that when it does go tits up, goes fucking crazy at the end, it's more pronounced because it was so suppressed.
Guest:Right, well, you did that.
Marc:You did the Martin thing.
Marc:You kind of let it...
Guest:Bro, it's like my inspo.
Guest:There's a couple of people that I'm like, yo, I like.
Guest:I see it as music though.
Guest:I see a lot of people go, I just like his flow.
Guest:I like his flow.
Guest:Like Christopher Walken.
Guest:I was thinking the other day, Christopher Walken.
Guest:I see him like Snoop Dogg.
Guest:There's no one like him.
Guest:There's no one like him.
Guest:You can't even copy it.
Guest:I watched King of New York in a pandemic.
Guest:I watched King of New York and I was just like, it did the scene.
Guest:Have you seen King of New York?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He did the scene where he's there and he's on a dinner table and he's about to like, he's about to say a joke.
Guest:He's about to say a joke.
Guest:And then he kind of, he has a space for the joke, has a joke, thinks about the joke, then laughs at the joke.
Guest:then composes himself about the joke, prepares himself to say the joke, and then says the joke.
Guest:All in these, yo, Mark, do you know how much confidence you have to have to do that, like to do that in your close-up?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm just going to think this and you will know.
Guest:That shit is like, bro, I put that in my veins, bro.
Guest:It's like, yeah, just be present.
Guest:Just do it and go with what you feel.
Guest:And the director can cut it if it's rubbish.
Guest:because you're saying it's like but it's like they just did it and it's like stuff like that it's like i see it like i'm like that flow is somewhere else someone's he's on another planet right there you can't really replicate it so i can see that martin martin did what martin was the big inspirator i can see that pocket that i like it's the way to tell a story and also make the funnier bits funnier by being the real straight man that's interesting so these are your real teachers really
Guest:Yeah, it's like kind of, it's like you just see something and you're just inspired.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you kind of go, wow, that's like, I really like that.
Guest:That's really interesting to me.
Guest:I really like the way this person did that.
Guest:Like, it just speaks, you're not even, I just watch films because I want to watch films, but you just go, wow, like, that's a really interesting way of doing it.
Guest:And I would never have thought about that.
Guest:That's a, that's very unique.
Guest:And I'm, I buy it.
Guest:You can't not be changed by it.
Guest:You can't, like, you can't have the old idea anymore.
Guest:You kind of go, when you're doing it, go, oh yeah, that's, there was a whole thing there.
Guest:You just inspired.
Guest:You just moved.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I used to feel that way when I watched Dennis Hopper, where you're like, oh my God, it's like a different time zone.
Marc:They operate in a different time zone.
Marc:It's their own plan.
Marc:They're dictating.
Marc:When you engage with those people where you watch them, you're like, they're completely...
Marc:unique to themselves so they can they can invent the pace they can invent the time they can like it's what you said it comes from confidence I think also with some people from you know experience it seems people get better as they get older yeah but you know it is bro if I'm being totally transparent yeah my favorite actors in the world are child actors
Guest:yeah they're the best they're the best without a shadow of a doubt the minute they turn 13 shit happens and I don't know what's going on and then you have to work your ass off to get to like I don't know Annie Hopkins age and then you're like I'm free I'm a child again but it's that thing where like the majority of times it's like they kid I would I'm more inspired by kids performances than anyone else like because they're just they're just there yeah
Guest:And they're really listening.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they really take it.
Guest:It's like that for me is like that.
Guest:I look at certain things.
Guest:I go, I just, there's too much life has happened for me to even get to that point.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's like, I have to so much to undo to, to get to what this child is doing.
Guest:Something like Beasts of No Nation With the Idris Elba film I think it's Abraham Attar The last scene I was just like Bro this is so pure This is just so honest And you can't teach it I just think kids know it Kids are the best actors When you get a great kids performance I'm just like
Guest:I'm always really blown away by how simple it is.
Marc:So do you find yourself trying to get past the clutter of your experience when you're getting to the emotional part of the role?
Guest:Yeah, I think I did this episode of Black Mirror and the director said something crazy interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He sat us down, me and Jess Brown Finley.
Guest:And he did hot seating.
Guest:He did hot seating with us.
Guest:Kind of answer questions as characters.
Guest:And then we just learning about the characters.
Guest:And then at the end, it was like hours, two hours.
Guest:And it was really intense.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And at the end, he was like, all right, cool.
Guest:Forget about it.
Guest:I was like, what do you mean forget about it?
Guest:You made me work.
Guest:Like,
Guest:And he was like, no, like, forget about it.
Guest:Cause like, you know, if it makes sense, it'll stick.
Guest:And that's how I feel.
Guest:You do all this work.
Guest:You do all this work.
Guest:And then you just got a band, let it go.
Guest:Forget about it.
Guest:You show up on set, you are just there and it will show up for you.
Guest:It will show up for you.
Guest:And it will show up for you in a real way because you created a body.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You've created a body.
Guest:You've created an outlook, a perspective, a way, and it will just show up and it will just show up.
Guest:All the decisions you made, the intention, it will just show up.
Guest:And you don't even realize you're doing it.
Guest:I look at Judas.
Guest:I don't remember those takes.
Guest:I don't remember.
Guest:I don't remember the takes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like we're usually in performance.
Guest:I'll be like, oh yeah, they used that take.
Guest:They used that take.
Guest:I remember that day.
Guest:I don't blanked out, but I literally did go, all right, cool.
Guest:I'm going to stand here and I've learned all this stuff and I've taken all this stuff in.
Guest:I want to just allow the spirit to speak through me.
Guest:And I'm just going to like all these, all these things you can lean on.
Guest:It's like triggers to kind of, kind of assist you to stay on path.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, on what you're doing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Choices.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't even see it as choice.
Guest:It's like, I don't believe I have the power to choose.
Guest:I think if I have the power to choose, then you're seeing the performance.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So if you do the work.
Guest:It's like, yo, it's like the stuff that happens, if that is a certain scene and I've got to do it in a certain way and I feel a certain way, then I'm going to do it in that certain, like I'm just going to do it in that certain way.
Guest:And I go, that's what I think I'm going to do it in that certain way.
Guest:There is no choice being made.
Guest:That's the way.
Marc:Right.
Right.
Guest:And it's like, it's the unapologeticness and the audaciousness of going, this is it.
Guest:Because I can always stand on that, Mark.
Guest:I can always stand on that.
Guest:So if someone says, oh, if I'm trying to go, oh, I think this is a choice.
Guest:This will make them feel that, yeah?
Guest:Then I'm like,
Guest:I'm manipulating them.
Guest:I'm going, ooh, yeah, boom.
Guest:And if I don't get what I want, then I'm going to be self-loathing and beat myself up.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I created a process to minimize the self-loathing, to minimize it.
Guest:I literally actively, I want to be able to watch my stuff and objectively grow and learn from my own performance and go, oh, okay, cool.
Guest:I know that was honest, but would you do that now?
Guest:Probably not.
Guest:Why did you do that?
Guest:Okay, cool.
Guest:Next one, try this, try that.
Guest:And then,
Guest:you're like honing honing yeah yeah yeah it's because that that whole like getting at yourself is it's this it just ruins what you're doing i've spent yeah i spent more than half my life getting it myself and then eventually you know if you're lucky it lifts you know it goes away a little bit and you i think i think i think you can't rely on like
Guest:It's just leaving.
Guest:You've got to actively decide.
Marc:Oh, yeah, for sure.
Guest:And set up something to help you with that.
Guest:Because it's just like, because it's just can be paralyzing.
Marc:You found yourself putting something in place to stop yourself loathing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, I've got like, because I'm going, this is my heart.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Boom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is how I see.
Guest:This is what I think.
Guest:This is how I feel.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Without embarrassment.
Guest:Without embarrassment.
Guest:And then people have an opinion and they're not, they're not saying, they're saying what they think.
Guest:They're not saying what they feel.
Guest:So they've got different level of investment.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's going, Oh, this is what I think about how you feel.
Guest:So it doesn't matter.
Guest:So I'm saying it doesn't matter.
Guest:It's just that going, if you're thinking of yourself like that, yeah, if you're thinking of yourself like that and going, I think about how I feel, then you're going to be, that's going to be a lot for you.
Guest:That's going to hurt you.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:If you're not taking it in that way, then that's just what someone else is thinking.
Guest:You're not agreeing with that, the kind of way of thinking.
Guest:So that's the kind of thing is just going, that's how I felt.
Guest:I look at things, that's how I felt.
Marc:You're not looking outside yourself and you have boundaries.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I just actively go, okay, I have to give my all to this.
Guest:And that's why I'm really forensic about the stuff I do because I've got to believe in it to help with the process of like, no, no, no.
Guest:But it's just that kind of go, yeah, and just enjoy the moment.
Guest:Enjoy it.
Guest:I like having fun.
Guest:I do this because...
Guest:I want to have fun.
Guest:If I wanted to make money, I'd work in finance.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:I want to be comfortable.
Guest:I want to have a great life, and that's expensive nowadays.
Guest:But it's that thing where it's about having fun and enjoying yourself.
Guest:So you've got to put a system in place and think in a way to help you with that.
Marc:So you're excited about SNL?
Guest:Yeah, I am.
Guest:I'm buzzing for that.
Guest:I can't even lie, man.
Guest:I'm buzzing for that because you know what it is?
Guest:I realize I ain't really got off screen persona like that.
Guest:No one really even knows who I am like that.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It's I'm just kind of like like it's kind of really free in position.
Guest:So I'm just going to be like just buzzing.
Marc:Yeah, because you've got and also you've got all this improv superpower that no one knows about.
Guest:Yeah, no one knows any idea.
Guest:That's why I went to Donald's one.
Guest:Donald Glover did one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went to his one and then I was there and I was like, wow, this is like the biggest challenge in the industry.
Guest:It's like this is the process that will make you grow the most.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like because it's just like you don't have a show on Monday.
Guest:You have a show on Saturday.
Guest:I mean, it's like that's what we used to do every day.
Guest:We used to like
Guest:do improv and like go away.
Guest:A group of us will go away for 20 minutes and then come back and perform that play to the class.
Guest:And you just have to have a play at the end of every week.
Guest:So it reminds me of that.
Guest:And you just have to show up and kind of, and you're,
Guest:fight or flight comes in and you just think of all these ideas and this is not the other.
Guest:So SNL doing that, like I'm buzzing.
Guest:I can't even lie.
Guest:I'm buzzing for it.
Guest:I'm like, I'm ready for that.
Marc:Well, have fun, man.
Guest:It's a challenge.
Guest:It's a challenge.
Guest:I'm going to enjoy it.
Guest:We're going to have a party.
Guest:Do you know what I'm saying?
Marc:I'm going to have a party.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why not, man?
Marc:Well, look, I'm a big fan.
Marc:I'm glad we got to talk about this stuff.
Marc:I really enjoy the work.
Marc:I like all the movies.
Marc:And, you know, it was enlightening hearing your perspective on this stuff.
Marc:It's very helpful for me to hear anybody who has challenged themselves and realizes that, you know, freedom isn't comfortable.
Guest:No, that's what makes it comfortable.
Guest:But yeah, and I appreciate you, man.
Guest:Appreciate all the stuff that you're putting out there, Mark, man.
Guest:You're really creating an incredible legacy, bro.
Marc:I appreciate it, man.
Marc:Take care.
Marc:I'll see you soon.
Marc:Take care.
Guest:See you soon.
Guest:Peace.
Marc:Okay, that was Daniel Kaluuya.
Marc:And he'll be hosting Saturday Night Live this weekend.
Marc:You can watch him in Judas and the Black Messiah or Queen and Slim or Black Panther or Get Out.
Marc:Any number of those things.
Marc:Good actor.
Marc:Interesting presence.
Marc:And now you know who his biggest influence is.
Marc:All right?
Marc:Happy birthday to my brother, Craig Marin.
Marc:You made it.
Marc:Another year.
Marc:How old are you, buddy?
Marc:What are you, 55?
Marc:You're 55.
Marc:Happy birthday.
Marc:I love you, man.
Marc:I'll play some guitar.
Thank you.
Guest:Boomer lives.
Guest:Monkey and LaFonda.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere.