Episode 1199 - Salma Hayek
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what the fuck stirs
Marc:What the fuckettes?
Marc:There's a lot more what the fuckettes these days.
Marc:I don't know what that's about, but welcome.
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:Selma Hayek is on the show tonight.
Marc:What am I doing?
Marc:What do you mean tonight?
Marc:She's on the show in a minute.
Marc:You know her from the movies she made with Robert Rodriguez.
Marc:She made Frida.
Marc:She was the executive producer of Ugly Betty.
Marc:She was in an independent movie that I love called Beatrice at Dinner.
Marc:Talk about that a bit.
Marc:She's currently in a movie called Bliss with Owen Wilson, which is a movie about living in a simulated reality and not knowing what is real and what isn't, which actually has a bit of relevance today.
Marc:So...
Marc:Fucking coyotes, am I right?
Marc:I got to be honest with you people.
Marc:I know sometimes I may come off as a dire, cynical, worked up.
Marc:But I don't want to be misunderstood.
Marc:I don't want to be.
Marc:I don't think I'm negative.
Marc:I don't think I'm a depressive.
Marc:I think sometimes I'm more sensitive than others and more in tune with the frequencies that are causing me fear and panic, which I need to embrace.
Marc:I think we should all embrace a little bit.
Marc:You can do whatever you do to stuff those things down.
Marc:I'm a magician.
Marc:I will now bend my negativity into a positive.
Marc:Please, folks, bear with me.
Marc:Bear with me.
Marc:Everything is so great.
Marc:Everything is just so fucking good.
Marc:I'm feeling bad.
Marc:I'm happy to be alive today.
Marc:Bend it.
Marc:Twist it.
Marc:Listen.
Marc:I am feeling a little better today.
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:I'm not paying any lip service to the Super Bowl, which happened yesterday.
Marc:But I recorded this before the Super Bowl.
Marc:And I got to be honest with you.
Marc:And it's not being condescending nor dismissive nor judgmental.
Marc:But I had no fucking idea who's playing.
Marc:I could look it up.
Marc:I don't care.
Marc:It's that I'm not avoiding the information.
Marc:I don't follow any of it.
Marc:And I just don't know.
Marc:But there's a lot of things I don't know.
Marc:I'm starting to realize that as we sort of find ourselves in our own bubbles and we are very specifically picking and choosing what we put in our brains.
Marc:It's very easy to realize what you're tapped into and what you're not tapped into when the collective momentum is fragmented.
Marc:There's a lot I don't know.
Marc:And then my brain is sort of like, God, no one's watching that today.
Marc:It's like, no, you're not.
Marc:It doesn't mean there aren't millions doing it just because it's not part of the information you're taking in.
Marc:No, in my world, nobody cares about it.
Marc:I'm surprised if they even have the game.
Marc:That's how, you know, if I'm not interested, they might as well cancel it.
Marc:That's the narcissistic isolation bubble of judgment based on your own engagement with the world, which is all limited to a very specific set of choices for each of us right now.
Marc:But the coyotes, man, the fucking coyotes, the middle of the night.
Marc:Now, you know, I live in a neighborhood.
Marc:It's an old neighborhood.
Marc:And but, you know, it's L.A.
Marc:It's not far from a hill, a mountain of sorts.
Marc:And I hadn't right when I moved in here after it rained once, there was a large coyote in my front yard.
Marc:Something is shitting in my front yard occasionally.
Marc:In the same place, as if to prove a point, sort of off.
Marc:It's not like any place I walk around, but it's sort of in the same place off to the left of the front of the house.
Marc:Just some wild thing is taking a dump to make a point.
Marc:I don't know what the point is.
Marc:I don't know what kind of animal it is.
Marc:Maybe it's a coyote, but I saw a big one there once and it was...
Marc:Kind of menacing.
Marc:I don't know why we assume they're not wolves.
Marc:They're not going to attack.
Marc:They are coyotes are kind of pussies.
Marc:I know they represent something.
Marc:The trickster.
Marc:The coyote is the trickster in the indigenous people's spiritual universe.
Marc:The coyote.
Marc:is an omen of an unfortunate event or thing in your path or in the near future.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Why do we have to do that?
Marc:That's from Navajo mythology.
Marc:It is certainly an unfortunate omen for any cat, any outdoor cat or small dog.
Marc:The, you know, 99% of the time, the coyote is not a good thing.
Marc:Let's see.
Marc:What is this coyote legend from the Oregon encyclopedia?
Marc:Nonetheless, coyote is a very popular figure playing his role of scheming, self-seeking trickster, stirring up trouble, testing and violating moral precepts.
Marc:Oh, so he's basically a comic.
Marc:Coyote is comic.
Marc:He provides a vicarious escape from social restrictions.
Marc:That is until his usual comeuppance for such outrageous misbehavior reinforces them.
Marc:Man, these coyotes.
Marc:And some of these some of these myths say he helped the gods invent the people.
Marc:Why is the coyote... Oh, here we go.
Marc:This is important.
Marc:What does coyote poop look like?
Hmm.
Marc:Coyote scats are rope-like and typically filled with hair and bones, unlike dog scat.
Marc:Scat.
Marc:Coyotes use scat to communicate.
Marc:Oh, so that scat... So whoever's been scatting in my front yard is definitely not a coyote because it looks like a vegetarian scat to me.
Marc:But the coyote is a trickster.
Marc:A tough audience.
Marc:But man, I heard a pack of them the other night.
Marc:I was laying in bed, woke me up at 3.30 in the morning, just cackling, reveling coyotes.
Marc:Someone told me that they're mating now.
Marc:I always assume when they're laughing and yelping, it's because they've just ruined somebody's life by eating their pet.
Marc:But no, they might just be out at the club.
Marc:They might just be looking for love.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But it woke me up, but Buster swept right through it.
Marc:Buster didn't give a fuck.
Marc:Then the next day we heard him, and Buster was freaked out.
Marc:Because I assume that Buster has some memory of that.
Marc:He was out on the streets until he was about two months old, running around, a wormy little kitten.
Marc:I was going through some papers and stuff, and I saw the history of my cats, lives, and deaths.
Marc:Buster was born in March, we assume, March 2016.
Marc:The tricksters are out.
Marc:They are an omen to your pet.
Marc:So I watched Nomadland, which I thought was great.
Marc:I was wary about it.
Marc:And then I watched it and I had no idea.
Marc:I mean, obviously, Francis McDormand is always amazing.
Marc:And I guess some actual nomad people, American nomads, people who are out there going from regional job to regional job, living in their cars or campers.
Marc:But it's a beautiful movie, but it's really about grief.
Marc:It's a sad movie, but it's an elevation of the human spirit at the end.
Marc:It's a little heavy-hearted, but it really is a movie about grief when you look at it.
Marc:I thought, is this a movie about people who just have a community of wandering people?
Marc:Is it about homeless people?
Marc:No, it's about situational displacement, but it's really a movie about personal grief, and it's quite a beautiful film.
Marc:I recommend it.
Marc:I recommend it.
Marc:Selma Hayek.
Marc:We had a pretty tight hour here to talk, and I think we got into some stuff.
Marc:I think we connected.
Marc:Sometimes it's tricky because I know she's doing a lot of these.
Marc:She's talking to a lot of people.
Marc:She's going on and off 10-minute junkets.
Marc:She's been sort of flogging this movie, Bliss.
Marc:Is that what you say?
Marc:Is that the right word?
Marc:Which I thought was a pretty good movie.
Marc:Hadn't seen Owen Wilson in a while.
Marc:Hadn't seen Selma in a while.
Marc:And then I got to talk to her face to face on the video, which was daunting because she's powerful.
Marc:So this is me talking to Selma Hayek about her movie Bliss with Owen Wilson, which is now streaming on Amazon Prime Video and many other things.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So enjoy listening to this.
Marc:This is me and Selma Hayek.
Guest:Hi.
Guest:Hello, Salma.
Guest:How are you?
Guest:I'm good.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Nice to see you.
Guest:You look nice.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:So do you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:You have a big mic.
Marc:I know.
Guest:Very intimidating.
Marc:What are you drinking?
Guest:I am drinking lemon, cayenne pepper, and maple syrup.
Marc:Really?
Marc:And that's in water?
Guest:That's water.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:And is that supposed to keep you from getting COVID?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I wish.
Guest:It was supposed to keep me awake for you.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:What time is it there?
Guest:I just didn't sleep last night.
Guest:It's only 6.30, but if you didn't have a good night's sleep, then... Why?
Marc:Were you freaking out about something?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What?
What?
Guest:i'm gonna tell you no i hate when i can't sleep oh me too it's the worst do you i usually like it doesn't happen to me too often but if your brain starts going it's a problem and you know i don't need a lot of sleep i sleep like only like five hours a night me too yeah night yeah so i don't need i wake up at five in the morning i go to sleep late at night but if i sleep
Guest:Four hours and 50 minutes, I'm really a zombie.
Guest:I need my five.
Marc:But what do you do?
Marc:I'm the same way.
Marc:I get up at 6.30 in the morning, but now with everything limited, every day seems like two weeks.
Guest:Not to me.
Guest:No?
Guest:Not to me.
Guest:Oh, it's magical.
Guest:This is the first of all, I have a production company in L.A., but I live in London.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So at five o'clock, I still work because I get to talk to people in L.A.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I can call even family.
Guest:Sometimes I wake them up in Mexico.
Guest:But I usually don't call them right away because five o'clock is the time where I get to be alone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Quiet.
Guest:I'm married with children.
Guest:I'm a working mother.
Guest:That is married on top of it.
Marc:How old are your kids?
Guest:I have from 24 to 13.
Marc:How many?
Guest:Four.
Marc:And they're all there?
Guest:No, only the 13.
Marc:Oh, that's a lot.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:I inherited three children before the 13th.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But they're spread out.
Marc:Just a 13-year-old's home.
Guest:For now, yes.
Guest:For now, yes, because there was another one living with us.
Guest:But she is been drafted.
Guest:First of all, now she's in university and she's been drafted by the French team.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of jumping horses.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Marc:That's impressive.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Just the idea of being on a horse frightens me.
Guest:Oh, they're gorgeous animals.
Marc:But do you ride them?
Guest:I used to ride them and then I had a very traumatic accident.
Marc:On a horse?
Guest:On a horse.
Marc:What happened?
Guest:I was asked to ride horses for other people and sometimes to help out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A new horse arrived and he was crazy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I got on the horse and started working the horse and the horse went insane.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:and they started screaming at me, it was so bad, he was bagging me against the rails.
Guest:He said, jump off the horse, okay?
Guest:So I finally jump off the horse and for the, I've never even heard of this before,
Guest:He came back to try to kill me on the ground like a bull.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he stepped up.
Guest:I mean, I had I had I have some injuries and everybody came in to try to get the horse.
Guest:But yeah, I just didn't know the horse had that.
Guest:And it's very rare, very almost impossible.
Guest:And so I didn't ride again.
Guest:And but I do rescue horses.
Guest:I have a ranch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I have the horses, but they're free in the field.
Guest:And
Guest:And I have ridden horses for movies.
Guest:I had to do a lot of tricks on the horse.
Guest:So I've built myself up for it.
Guest:And
Guest:Just lately, I shot a movie called Eternals and they don't want me to say anything about it.
Guest:So I might be in trouble, but you didn't say anything yet.
Guest:I didn't sleep last night.
Guest:I can always tell them that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I ride a horse in that movie and I have now.
Marc:I don't think that's a spoiler, is it?
Guest:It is because it's a sci-fi movie.
Guest:It's kind of strange to have an eternal creature on earth riding a horse.
Guest:But I kind of healed it this last time.
Marc:You healed the horse?
Marc:You healed your fear?
Guest:My fear, yeah, my anxiety about it.
Marc:So when you had the injury with the scary horse, were you a kid?
Guest:I was 21.
Marc:Oh, was that in Mexico?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:That was something you were doing at that time, was training horses?
Marc:That was a thing you did?
Guest:For fun.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:I was an actress already.
Marc:No, yeah, already, but you just liked the horses.
Marc:How much family do you still have over there?
Guest:Hundreds.
Guest:We're Mexican, Mexican-Lebanese.
Guest:Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them.
Guest:I'm also 54, so they start piling up with the kids and more kids and more kids.
Marc:Mexican, Lebanese, and Catholic.
Marc:A lot of kids.
Guest:A lot of kids, yeah.
Marc:How does Mexican-Lebanese happen?
Marc:Your father was Mexican-Lebanese?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:What's the history of that connection?
Guest:My mother, Mexican-Spanish.
Guest:My grandfather came to Mexico.
Guest:My father was born in Mexico.
Marc:Okay, so your grandfather was Lebanese?
Guest:Yes, and my grandmother.
Guest:Completely the opposite of the typical story of an immigrant.
Guest:My grandfather actually came from a well-to-do family with money to Mexico and lost it all.
Marc:on what on textiles he he had a partner okay oh kind of took it the bad partner yeah the partner that runs off with the money yeah uh well that's interesting so your your mother is mexican spanish and your your father is really sort of lebanese you know from going way back
Guest:Yeah, my grandparents on my mother's side were Spanish.
Marc:So that must mean that was there an interesting hybrid of food between Lebanese and Mexico?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:I didn't know that, you know, the quipe was not Mexican.
Guest:Quipe wasn't Mexican.
Guest:Or that the paella was not Mexican.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my mother is a fantastic cook and my father is a fantastic eater.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I grew up eating a lot of really good food.
Marc:I bet.
Marc:I mean, I'm excited about it.
Marc:I grew up in New Mexico.
Guest:And then there is the New Mexican food, which is the Tex-Mex, which is also great.
Marc:Green chili, baby.
Marc:Green chili.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And chili con carne.
Marc:Now, this movie, I watched a movie last night, the new movie.
Marc:I think we should talk about it a little bit because that's why you're here.
Marc:Now, let me make sure I understand.
Marc:Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm not trying to be diminishing in any way, but is it a movie about a guy who might have seen The Matrix, who has a nervous breakdown after his divorce, and then eventually wakes up?
Guest:Mark, you got it perfectly right.
Okay.
Guest:perfectly right, because the movie is designed to be a different movie according to the expectator.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:No, he talked about this to us.
Guest:The director.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That's what he wanted to do.
Guest:A movie.
Guest:It's kind of like interactive movie because
Guest:And, you know, for the performance, you had to do a performance that would work in the different versions.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I mean, I thought that was kind of amazing that the two of you, how much you committed and it was and you made it work like in the.
Marc:Like, cause it's arguable.
Marc:Like, I don't want to, you know, it's hard not to, I don't want to give away the movie, but whether or not you're real or not, you know, whatever was going on around the crystals, you know, it was like drug addicts, right?
Marc:So you guys have to.
Guest:His main, his main theme, it's drug addiction.
Guest:There's two things that for him were very important that we hit all those marks.
Guest:And it was either a movie where there is a bliss world where everything is perfect and beautiful and people have lost the appreciation and everything is just common for them.
Guest:So a scientist, which is me, creates different worlds in a simulation where people can go and experience...
Guest:How do you say?
Guest:An ugly world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Reality.
Guest:Horrible reality.
Guest:An ugly reality so that you can come back and appreciate the reality that you have.
Guest:Sort of what happened right now in Corona.
Guest:You know, we thought we were living in a terrible world until they looked us down.
Guest:And all of a sudden you say, wait a minute.
Guest:It was nice to see a friend and hug him.
Guest:It was nice, you know, to know if the person talking to you hates you or likes you or is smiling or has bad teeth.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so that's one version.
Guest:And the other version is it's a movie about addiction that was very important for him, that it was not judgmental.
Guest:And we could take kind of like a trip into when you're inside of it.
Guest:That's your reality.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And it takes you over.
Right.
Marc:Yeah, I thought it was an interesting way to do it because there are definitely moments with the two of you, like especially that moment where, you know, he disappears and you're like, where were you?
Marc:You know, like, you know, that it became clear to me that what we're seeing is that whether or not your character is reality or not, whatever they're going through is just flat out horrible drug addiction.
Guest:It's addiction.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:And so.
Guest:I'm so excited you brought this up, this scene.
Guest:I'm going to tell you why, because you're also an actor and you're going to appreciate this.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So for this scene, he wanted from me not to have just some anxiety attack.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And some emotional breakdown.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I have to have the need for the drugs.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The need for him, because that's another kind of addiction.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The fear of being alone, whether it's losing your soulmate, that you're losing it to another reality, or whether it's losing your partner that you do the drugs with.
Guest:And here comes the most interesting challenge.
Guest:My character believes that all these emotions are not real.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So as an actor, I have to play all that, but come in and out because I'm trying to convince myself that what's wrong?
Guest:I shouldn't be feeling this because I know it's not real.
Guest:He's dragging me to him.
Guest:But wait a minute.
Guest:Why did they take?
Guest:So I had to play the drug addict, the son in this same scene.
Guest:Yeah, it was good.
Guest:But if you do it to not real, then the audience don't go with it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And if you do it just about one thing, then the audience don't feel the need for the drug and for him as a drug or the desperation that you're losing your soulmate to another reality that you created.
Guest:And it's your fault.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I thought, I thought you did a great job because like I had that moment, you know, I've got, everybody's got a past and we've all dealt with different types of people in our lives.
Marc:But that moment where you're, you know, you're just like, where were you?
Marc:Like that screaming, where were you?
Marc:And like, I thought it was chilling because, you know, I've been in some bad relationships in my life.
Guest:And somebody else is going to say she's over the top.
Guest:No, I've seen this happen.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:No, that's true.
Marc:I've seen it happen.
Marc:And I was sort of amazed that, you know, that Owen, I guess, because of, you know, his history, too.
Marc:You guys played this very realistically.
Marc:And I realized as an actor, it must have been challenging because of the nature of how the reality in the movie was shifting.
Marc:But but when you guys are in it and connecting around the crystals, like it felt very genuine to me.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then, I mean, if you play, if you're going to examine it from an addiction point of view,
Guest:You know, there's so many justifications around it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah, exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And all the justifications you're making are the justifications of just regular, desperate drug addiction.
Marc:But in the context of this other reality, her, you know, her mental illness, scientists talking.
Marc:Yeah, it's crazy.
Guest:The obsessive compulsive nature of it, like so many for you, so many for me.
Guest:Oh, my God, we don't have enough.
Guest:You never have enough when you're an addict.
Marc:Yeah, tell me about it.
Marc:Or food or anything.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But scientifically, maybe you really don't have enough.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It's really sophisticated if you really examine the film.
Guest:It's very unique.
Guest:It's different.
Marc:It's definitely different.
Marc:I didn't know what to do with it for about half of the movie.
Marc:like i was like what is it is this going to be stupid what are we doing here and then i started to piece together you know intellectually you know what what you know what the tells were in terms of like is this real is it not real you know in that like because what the scene where you know you you guys are in the in the utopia you know and then you you say like don't you remember what you invented and you pull out this thing and i'm like
Marc:oh my God, that's something a child would invent.
Marc:It's not a real invention, right?
Marc:So I started to think in terms of like, is this just going on in his head?
Marc:So it does play games with you, you know?
Guest:Well, and also the justification for that was that I was the real scientist and he was just kind of like a dude that was not really to the same level.
Guest:He was just a nice guy, you know?
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:This woman, which is a lot to take.
Marc:It's complicated, huh?
Guest:And she tries to make the most of it in our relationship.
Guest:But you're brilliant.
Guest:Don't you remember?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's the silliest thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it's kind of cool at the same time.
Marc:Oh, yeah, it was cool.
Marc:But it was sort of like, is this possibly, you know, part of his imagination or his hallucination?
Guest:Always.
Guest:Even me, I can't be.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:I probably never existed.
Marc:Yeah, I have a hard time with fantasy and science fiction, but I stayed with it and I locked in and I took it for what it was.
Marc:And it was good.
Marc:It was good because I can identify with addiction.
Guest:However, I will tell you this, that is also very interesting.
Guest:This science fiction film has so many parallels to a reality we're living in today.
Marc:I think that's true.
Guest:The most important one is that without going to a different dimension or a parallel reality in a different dimension, we're living in a world where different bubbles of people.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:are living in different realities.
Guest:Yeah, scary.
Guest:For each one of them, it's completely real.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And when you hear them talk, even friends that you thought you understood how they thought for years, they start talking about things that sound like sci-fi and it makes completely sense to them.
Right.
Marc:Yeah, and then the scariest part about that reality that we're living in is that if you hear it too much, you'll start going like, well, maybe I don't know.
Guest:Well, exact, but that's the film.
Guest:The film is reflecting their living.
Guest:We're living into names.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Many metaphors.
Guest:But the beauty is that at least my character...
Guest:She learns to be selfless enough that even though she has to sacrifice something very important, which I won't say why, she learns to accept and to respect that different people get to choose their realities.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, but in the world we're living in right now, that's difficult because a line has to be drawn because some of those realities are threatening the world we live in, right?
Guest:But for them, your reality is threatening the world they're living in.
Marc:I know, but at some point, Selma, we've got to call a crazy person a crazy person, right?
Right.
Guest:But they are different pockets of crazy, you know, collectiveness, collective craziness in different pockets.
Guest:And they're thinking the same thing about yours and mine.
Marc:I know, but they're wrong is what I'm saying.
Marc:But they're saying you're wrong.
Marc:Yeah, but there has to be some basic reality, don't you think?
Yeah.
Guest:That's what I thought.
Guest:But you talk to them and it's really basic reality.
Guest:There is a lot of people.
Guest:And I'll tell you what, technology plays a big part.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Like I have a friend who thinks the world is it's not round.
Marc:Stop it.
Marc:He's still your friend.
Guest:Yes, because he's been my friend forever and I'm not going to stop.
Guest:We have to stop judging.
Guest:No, you don't.
Guest:Not if a person thinks that the world is flat.
Guest:You can judge.
Guest:I have now like a year of discussion about it and a year of discussions you've had.
Guest:One of the things.
Guest:Yes, I stop now.
Guest:But in one of the things that by the way, they laugh at us, they think we're so naive and it is impossible.
Guest:And they say, I can show you in the Internet how many scientists have proved it and how many pilots have seen it.
Guest:And it's a conspiracy against the whole world.
Guest:And I go, I'm sorry.
Guest:There is one place where the world stops separating in conspiracy, and that's economics.
Guest:And I said, it would cost too much money to pay all the pilots of all the different countries to say the same lie.
Guest:This is impossible.
Guest:And we can go on and on and on and on and on.
Guest:And I'm telling you this, but there's many other conspiracies, but they think that we're naive.
Guest:I mean, think about religions.
Marc:I know.
Guest:And this is like so important for us.
Marc:Those are the original conspiracy theories.
Guest:And they contradict with each other.
Guest:So we learn to live with our religions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Respecting the well-being of everybody.
Guest:And this is where we need to find and just respect the beliefs.
Guest:And if you're from one religion, from when you were little...
Marc:I agree with you.
Marc:But but see, like, you know, you have beliefs here.
Marc:But then, you know, if we're going to let people and indulge them and hey, man, you know, you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe.
Marc:But we have to accept science.
Marc:OK, so you can.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I believe in science.
Guest:Good.
Guest:But it's not so simple, my friend, because all the religions, if you go through science, none of them are right.
Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That's fine with me.
Guest:It gets worse because now there's some scientists that are contradicting scientists.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So they're the dangerous ones.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:But they think that the other scientists are the dangerous ones.
Marc:But they're wrong.
Marc:They're wrong.
Marc:Okay.
Okay.
Marc:You had Mr. Science and you had Bill Nye in the movie.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Did you enjoy hanging out with him?
Guest:Oh, yes.
Guest:I enjoy hanging out with him, but you know what I enjoy?
Guest:I enjoy how much he enjoy, you know, being there and acting.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So now did you find like, what was that great movie that you were in Beatrice at dinner?
Guest:Oh, thank you for watching that.
Marc:That was great.
Marc:You were great in that.
Marc:And that was really kind of an exploration of, you know, class and, you know, like all of the, all the good stuff.
Marc:And it, you know, and it was really kind of a very surprising ending.
Marc:Did you feel like, why now who made that movie?
Marc:What makes you take a movie like that?
Marc:Just because the character is so great.
Guest:Oh, it's funny.
Guest:You were talking about two movies.
Guest:Mike, Miguel Arteta directed that.
Guest:Mike White wrote it.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:And I think they're genius.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They did A Good Girl together.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:They took a book together.
Guest:And they're friends.
Guest:They're my friends.
Guest:We tried to do a movie with Miguel a long time ago.
Guest:about two lesbian women raising a child.
Guest:And they said, no, no, too risque.
Guest:Julianne Moore was going to be my wife, but not wife because it was... Didn't they make that movie?
Guest:The movie never got done because it was so ahead of its time.
Guest:It never happened.
Marc:Wasn't Annette Bening and I thought Julianne Moore and Annette Bening, didn't they do a movie like that with Mark Ruffalo?
Marc:Anyways, go ahead.
Guest:Yes, years later, a different one.
Guest:Then it was okay to make it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I actually hired him in a show I produced called Oglebetti and I've always been a fan of Mike.
Guest:And then one day they came to my house and Mike said, I have an idea for a movie.
Guest:I want to spend a little time with you because I want to write something for you.
Guest:And I was 49 at the time.
Guest:I was about to be 49 like a week before they came to my house.
Guest:We spent many hours.
Guest:He talked to me.
Guest:I said, what is it about?
Guest:And he said, I'm not going to tell you, but what do I play?
Guest:But do I have a good role?
Guest:I don't care about it.
Guest:i i don't care i'll do anything you want because i really respect him yeah yeah and they're friends and said it's it's it's a lead and then he hadn't started writing anything and a week later i got an email from him saying happy birthday with the entire script in one week he wrote it 10 days maximum and uh
Guest:I would have done anything with them just because sometimes you just, these are two movies and it's so interesting that you brought that one up.
Guest:That I was so free because I didn't care if they were good or bad at the end.
Guest:I didn't care if people saw it or liked them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I wanted to explore the character in a specific way and have the freedom to make mistakes and go there and do my best and try something different.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And not your usual go to things.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:As actors, sometimes they start working and they become your worst enemy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:What you're expecting, what people think you do.
Guest:And what you do, you keep doing it.
Guest:I mean, how many actors that you've been watching for a long time, you say, oh, my God, it's kind of the same thing.
Guest:But even if it's not, it's like what works, you know?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Guest:For them.
Guest:So I like to always continue to learn and grow and change.
Guest:And so I loved it.
Guest:I thought it was challenging, challenging for the brain, challenging in many ways.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:And also, when we were shooting it, I was not allowed to move my hands or my face.
Guest:And the camera is on my face right here the entire time.
Guest:And on the second day, I said...
Guest:No one's going to like this film.
Guest:Everybody's going to be so boring, looking at my face.
Guest:And then when I saw the movie, it was kind of moving, but even without me trying to.
Guest:And I had to train myself not to think about not moving it.
Guest:Also, not doing anything.
Marc:That must have been hard.
Marc:so that i didn't distract me yeah and as you can see i'm yeah yeah you know what once you get into the character then that's the character then that it takes over the character yeah so so so these two movies like that one and this one you know were challenging because like you get like i i can see that like in this new one in bliss like you get pretty raw you get pretty raw
Guest:It's not caring like I'm just going to give it it all, not think about it, not think about it if they're going to like it, what they're going to think, you know, if it's going to destroy my career, if they're going to criticize my performance.
Guest:I'm just going to do what the director wants.
Guest:I just want to please this director because he deserves it because he has a vision.
Guest:A lot of times I work with directors, they don't have a vision.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they just want you to do it, you know, do the Salma Hayek thing.
Marc:Just do the thing you do.
Marc:Well, I mean, but you've done a lot of even like that move, like all looking back on like Freda.
Marc:I mean, that must have taught you everything about, you know, willingness to take chances and and also willingness to put yourself out there and willingness to to be outspoken in what you do.
Marc:So you've sort of had that in your mind all along.
Guest:But but.
Guest:It was the first one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't get a chance to do that.
Guest:And that's because I produced it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I controlled it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was my dream.
Guest:And my dream was very specific.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I could have done it with a different director, would have been a different film.
Guest:I had a very clear vision of what film I wanted to make and why.
Guest:And also I understood the character very, very well.
Guest:I had been researching her for so many years.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't think people like I like I remember.
Marc:I don't know that that I fully understood the importance of her in Mexico.
Marc:Like, I can't even like fathom how important she was to you growing up.
Guest:It wasn't that important to Mexico at that time.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:And by the way, when she was alive, people diminish her work.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Because she was in the shadow of Diego.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And there was a movement, the muralist movement, where all the great minds around the world and artists, because there were a lot of artists from other parts of the world, they were painting in the walls of Mexico a political interpretation of reality.
Guest:Yes.
Yes.
Guest:And she was making little strange portraits.
Guest:It was not the cool thing to do.
Marc:Are you glad that you stuck in your story?
Marc:Are you still friends with Robert Rodriguez?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I talked to him years ago.
Marc:And that guy, he's a character.
Marc:And he's got a great vision, that guy, huh?
Yeah.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:And my God, I learned so much.
Guest:I was very close to him and his wife at the time.
Guest:They were kind of my family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they had a lot of children.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was very funny because she was great.
Guest:But every time she gave birth and at the beginning ones, they didn't have a nanny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was exhausted from the birth, so I was the nurse of the babies.
Guest:I would come in and let her rest and take the babies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would sit with the baby in front of the editing machine with Robert Rodriguez.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And my God, I learned a lot.
Guest:I love editing.
Guest:I love editing.
Marc:That's where it all happens, right?
Guest:I love editing.
Guest:It's fascinating.
Marc:When are you going to direct again?
Guest:I am going to direct soon.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Hopefully, hopefully.
Marc:You got a plan?
Marc:You got a project?
Guest:I got a project.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I got a project that I've been thinking about for 17 years.
Marc:17 years?
Marc:Just sitting there in your head?
Marc:And you can't talk about it or else it'll ruin it, right?
Guest:No, I can talk about it a little bit.
Guest:I don't know if it's going to get me.
Guest:Not sitting just there, you know,
Guest:It's very ambitious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's very complicated.
Guest:It's very expensive.
Guest:It's technical.
Guest:It's commercial, but it's technical.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like there was some things that I'm glad I didn't do it before because the technology is so much better to do it now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm going to see if anybody trusts me with the money soon.
Guest:I have the script.
Guest:I wrote it.
Marc:You wrote the whole thing?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's your idea?
Marc:It's not based on a novel or anything?
Guest:No.
Marc:What's it about?
Guest:Too soon.
Marc:Too soon.
Guest:Please invite me back.
Marc:No, I will.
Marc:Well, here's a question that just came up.
Marc:And, you know, obviously it's something you've talked about before.
Marc:And obviously, you know, it's heavy stuff.
Marc:But I'm curious because I found myself asking the question yesterday.
Marc:Because Evan Rachel Wood, you know, came out with, you know, with her experience with Marilyn Manson.
Marc:And, you know, I'm happy that she she spoke out.
Marc:But there was that question in my head, which was like, why why does it take so long?
Marc:You know, and then when I was like getting ready to talk to you and I saw you address that.
Marc:that you know there's something that that women living in this business and living in this world that they've been taught to accept and try to live with but like how do you answer that question why why do you think it takes so long to talk to speak out first of all it depends on on on the type of abuse yeah
Guest:But normally, it takes you sometimes time to accept it to yourself that there was abuse and the level of abuse.
Marc:Right, because you have it framed in a different way.
Marc:There's part of the brain that thinks, like, I just have to get through it, or I just have to deal with it, right?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But there's so much to this.
Guest:Deal with it, or is it...
Guest:Once it's once, it happens once or twice, and you didn't get out.
Guest:There's a whole psychological study about why you don't get out because there's a process of first they break your self-esteem.
Guest:They create also a co...
Guest:How do you say when you're addicted?
Guest:They are a codependency.
Marc:Yes, codependency.
Guest:Then they keep breaking you psychologically and emotionally.
Guest:So it's done in a way that the abuser also kind of instinctively knows what they're doing.
Guest:Normally they come from abuse.
Guest:So it's a whole thing.
Guest:So it's hard to get out.
Guest:Now you're ashamed that you don't get out.
Guest:So you have to say it's not really abuse.
Guest:or I can't deal with it.
Marc:Rationalize.
Guest:And finally, you get out and you say, I got out.
Guest:I'm not a victim.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And you don't want people to identify you as a victim.
Guest:You got out.
Guest:You survived it and you got out.
Guest:You know, and why talk about it?
Guest:It's my business, you know?
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:And then, like, I wrote something for The New York Times
Guest:of a situation I lived with Harvey Weinstein.
Guest:Yes, yeah.
Guest:And I did, you know, I didn't have a relationship with Harvey Weinstein.
Guest:Let me clarify that.
Guest:I had a working relationship with Harvey Weinstein that was abusive in many ways.
Guest:He didn't get away with what he wanted to get away.
Guest:I have to clarify this.
Guest:The thing is that it was traumatizing.
Guest:And...
Guest:I actually was very smart for the five years in trying to get Frida Don on how I handled it because I wouldn't even let him see any weakness.
Guest:I was very, very strong.
Guest:But afterwards, when I would go home, sometimes I'd be depressed for weeks from that encounter that he probably... However...
Guest:I survived it.
Guest:I didn't do anything with him that I, you know, I didn't do anything with him.
Guest:I got the movie made against his will.
Guest:I was clever enough to corner him legally to make a film he didn't want to make because he was not getting what he wanted out of me for doing the movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he still had to do it.
Guest:He made my life miserable while we were shooting it.
Guest:And I came out of it and I said, I won.
Guest:I beat him at his game.
Guest:I'm not a victim.
Guest:I healed.
Guest:I'm a fighter.
Guest:I'm strong.
Guest:When everybody started coming out with the stories, I realized I healed only one part.
Guest:because I had no idea all these women were going through.
Guest:And it's almost like just hearing them going through it, that I was going through it again.
Guest:And I started spiraling down again.
Guest:So I really actually didn't completely heal it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And until I wrote that piece that it took me a while to get it down into paper.
Guest:And I said, what's the point already?
Guest:Everybody else talked, but...
Guest:I also had something to say that people were not mentioning that it's not only for women.
Guest:It was not just the sexual abuse.
Guest:It's the mental abuse within work.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Of the bully.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he abused a lot of men too.
Guest:So anyway...
Guest:That really healed it, and it healed it because, in my case, it came out as a part of many women, like an army of women standing together.
Guest:So that's what healed me.
Guest:So why you wait so long?
Guest:Because you push it on your subconscious.
Guest:You don't want to think about it.
Guest:And then something happens in your life that you...
Guest:say, oh my God, it was worse than I thought.
Guest:It was so much worse than I thought.
Guest:And you think it's fair to yourself to acknowledge it and talk about it.
Guest:But for everybody, it's different.
Guest:It takes time.
Marc:It's trauma.
Marc:And also, I think what it speaks to, and you spoke to it a bit in the New York Times article, and I know this is going back a bit, but this method of working around men in the industry and around men in general has been in place forever.
Marc:I guess women are brought up to believe this is the way this works.
Guest:And men are brought up to believe that this is the way it works and that it's okay.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:They did were brought up to believe that.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And they got away systematically.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So it's not, I feel for them too.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like, it's wrong, but you should do it anyway because you can.
Guest:And it's terrible.
Marc:Do you have empathy for them?
Guest:I have empathy for everyone.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Did you always?
Guest:And I believe in second chances.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:But I also believe in consequences.
Marc:That makes sense.
Guest:I believe in consequences so that you can really deserve a second chance.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And you can really understand the balance of what's wrong and right and good and bad and real and not real.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you like because there is a sort of like, you know, the momentum.
Marc:of the way things sort of pick up.
Marc:I think a lot of times another reason that people don't speak out is because, you know, there's going to be consequences, both good and bad, just for for sharing your story.
Marc:I mean, I know from just talking to women on this show that almost always if I have a woman guest, there's going to be a whole army of frustrated, angry, weird little men who are going to make shitty comments.
Marc:And, you know, I right.
Marc:So I imagine after a certain point, it's like the decision also hinges on, like, do I want to deal with that shit?
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, they're going to say, why do you have empathy?
Guest:It's not that I say, oh, poor thing.
Guest:That's not what I mean.
Guest:But I do have empathy, for example, for their families, for their children.
Guest:And how I can understand that.
Guest:They're going through a hard time, but they deserve it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because they're leaving the consequences.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I feel sad for the whole thing altogether.
Guest:There is my empathy.
Guest:I wish he hadn't done it.
Guest:I wish his family didn't have to go through it.
Guest:I wish the victim didn't have to go through it.
Guest:I don't just think, oh, he's a horrible person.
Guest:Nobody is only one thing.
Guest:There's other aspects of every human being.
Marc:i know isn't that interesting that we live in an age where because of click bait and other things everybody there's this there's this force in in culture that makes wants to make people one thing and and if you don't like get on board with the one thing and you still have empathy or you still respect the other parts of that person you're some kind of uh of uh of a monster just as bad as them you know what i mean but people are complicated and let me let me use an example of course i'm going to get into trouble again here
Guest:Hilary Baldwin.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:Do you know any controversy about do you know?
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know that story.
Marc:What do you make of it?
Guest:Why are they going after this woman?
Guest:What is the... Why are they going after this wonderful girl, lovely mother, great wife?
Guest:I mean, Alec has never been better.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Alec, you know, she makes him happy.
Guest:Why are they going after this woman?
Guest:She's been going to Spain since she's six months old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, she was born in Boston.
Guest:I knew she was born in Boston.
Guest:She told me she was born in Boston.
Guest:So...
Guest:It is her story.
Guest:So what happens within the story are different interpretations.
Guest:Let's say that what happens if she identifies with that, if she identifies with both?
Guest:Who is she hurting?
Marc:Well, that's I thought that, too.
Marc:Because people wanted to make it seem like it was some sort of scam.
Marc:And I'm like, what kind of scam?
Marc:She obviously identifies more strongly and feels better, you know, identifying with the part of her that respects her Spanish background in terms of living there.
Guest:And her parents are still living there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, the kids are speaking Spanish.
Guest:They go to Bali.
Guest:What is, who is she hurting?
Guest:She's not selling tapas in the corner.
Guest:You know, she's not an actress pretending to getting the roles of the actress that are Spanish.
Guest:She's hurting no one.
Guest:Why are they so mean to this person?
Guest:And so, and some friends say to me, she's appropriating our culture.
Guest:How is she appropriate?
Guest:Why are you not flattered?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:She identifies with our culture.
Guest:Now we have to think in terms of, I don't, I mean, why not?
Guest:Why do we go after these people of all the lying on the, you know, last years in our life that have caused a lot of damage, like big lies.
Guest:And not just in the last years, starting from the chemical weapons.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That we never found and we went to war for.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But let's go after Hillary.
Guest:And I'm not just so that not go to the typical examples.
Guest:Let's go after this girl.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nice girl.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you've known Alec for a long time and you work with Alec.
Marc:And, you know, I'm sure you probably you'd probably talk to him through this.
Marc:And and you empathize.
Guest:I didn't, Mark, because I didn't want to call.
Guest:I don't even know exactly what it is.
Guest:I didn't want to call and feed into the thing or, oh, I'm so sorry.
Guest:I thought it was going to go away really fast because it's so ridiculous, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:But yes, women, normally we are targeted very strongly, sometimes for really silly things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that and you think that is just basic misogyny, just basic, you know, male anger.
Marc:I mean, I can't I really don't see I don't have it in me to think that way, but it seems reactively true.
Marc:that anytime a woman says anything publicly that it's made into a mountain and a lot of like primary, like a lot of people get weird and angry.
Guest:And I don't know how to- I will explain to you because somewhere along the line, our voice must have been very threatening that it is uncomfortable.
Guest:It's been uncomfortable through history to let us have a voice.
Guest:That's why we didn't have the vote forever.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:The expectations for women are so high.
Guest:I grew up Catholic.
Guest:And you have to imagine that when you read that Bible...
Guest:the two most significant women are the virgin and the whore.
Guest:In order to be the most beautiful thing in the world, which is a mother, you can't live up to that virgin who didn't have intercourse to have the children.
Guest:We're never going to live up to that.
Guest:The one woman that did have the intercourse,
Guest:What's the horn?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so for men, it's like, what do we are supposed to expect for women?
Guest:There are such high expectations of us today, which we're living in the modern world.
Guest:And we say, no, we want equal pay.
Guest:Now, you have to think that you have to work twice as hard and be twice as good to get half the pay.
Guest:At the same time, you're expected to spend all that time trying to prove yourself in the workplace.
Guest:But you're still expected to spend the time with your kids and your husband and be a good mother and be on top of the school, which now sends you 3000 emails and have 1000 activities.
Guest:But that's kind of your job, too.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not to mention the house has to be in perfect conditions.
Guest:You have to be in a good mood and nice and you have you cannot age.
Guest:You have to be hot on top of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a lot.
Marc:That's a lot, Selma.
Guest:And God forbid you make a mistake when you talk.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's a lot of pressure.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:And that was the thing like, you know, the weird thing about reading.
Marc:I read a piece about you and when you made the when you directed that the children's film.
Guest:The Maldonado Miracle.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But there is this moment where like what you're saying, all the things you're saying about women right now is that Harvey Weinstein shamelessly called you and the director of Frida.
Marc:I forget her name.
Marc:What's her name?
Guest:Oh, yes.
Guest:Julie Tamer.
Marc:ball busters right but he he had no no shame about that but you know that that in and of itself is minimizing considering the amazing amount of work and talent and effort and and proficiency that was going into what you were doing the amount of money i made him right and he just like he said that like it's it's okay to say that to minimize like that's that thing to put you in that box
Guest:Mark, I didn't feel minimized.
Marc:No, I know.
Guest:I feel redeemed.
Guest:Yes, I bust your balls.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You needed to have your balls busted.
Guest:yeah julie and i were like yeah yeah yeah we did not feel insulted yeah we did not feel insulted well you do you feel like you know now do you feel in your life you know and in your work do you feel like there is a shift happening you know lately but i'll tell you when i did frida it came out i did not get one role
Guest:that was different than the other sexy, silly roles that I was getting that had no need to act in.
Guest:Nothing changed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Nothing changed.
Guest:Nominated for an Oscar.
Guest:Nothing changed.
Guest:And then that's why I directed that film.
Guest:My agent told me we have to be careful because directors don't like women to direct, actresses to direct.
Guest:They're very, you know, protective.
Guest:I won an Emmy for Best Director.
Guest:and I didn't work for three years.
Guest:And I didn't even go to pick it up.
Guest:I didn't even, there was no press about it.
Guest:There was very little press about it.
Marc:Why do you think that is?
Guest:Why do you, how much do you, I didn't work for three years, she told me.
Marc:Is it racial?
Marc:Or is it?
Guest:They don't want somebody in the set that might know.
Guest:Look, it was really, when I was in my 30s,
Guest:I was pretty much the only woman that had successfully produced, because I also did a very good hit show called Oglebetti, television and film, many Academy Awards.
Guest:And I had directed it.
Guest:And I had successful career as an actress.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I was an activist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nobody ever wrote about it.
Guest:There was no American.
Guest:And by the way, I was Mexican Arab.
Guest:There was no other American that had done that either.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jodie Foster had directed, but she never had a TV show on network television that she produced.
Guest:And there was like two, three of us.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:this is before angelina who is amazing and i think she's a tremendous director this is before she directed this before before all of these and nobody even would write about it huh i was they were still looking at me like oh the sexy mexican chicken tina yeah so that's like that's the old system still in place really they didn't want to see me as anything else and now you feel it's a little different
Guest:Now it's different.
Guest:And it's a lot different.
Guest:And it changed really fast.
Guest:And, of course, there's a lot more to change.
Guest:We've got to take all the wins.
Guest:We've got to acknowledge them and feel them.
Guest:And I'll tell you, it's really funny how life works because I wrote that piece and...
Guest:I had my film and I was insecure about directing it and writing it.
Guest:It's a very difficult film to write.
Guest:And I kind of wrote something and I was nervous.
Guest:And then I wrote this piece.
Guest:And it was in the New York Times.
Guest:And it became the number one article in the New York Times for the year.
Guest:And then they chose it as a small piece, as a small group of articles to go for the Pulitzer Prize.
Guest:And we won.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And they used to call my manager and say, who wrote that for her?
Guest:Who wrote that for her?
Guest:And I wrote all by myself.
Guest:And so I said, you know what?
Guest:I can write.
Guest:And then I went and worked on the script and I sent it around and it turns out I can really write.
Guest:And if I didn't have all of that, I would have never known because they put so much insecurity on you that it's hard to find it.
Marc:Right, you try to fit into their expectations.
Guest:Or you start believing maybe that you're... Right, that that's what you are.
Guest:That you have those limitations.
Marc:Did you go pick up your Pulitzer?
Marc:no no it's it's for the new york times okay good my piece was a part of it i have a percentage well i mean i think you do amazing work and it sounds like you know personally the growth that you experience has sort of spread out because of your voice into a more cultural momentum which is kind of an amazing thing to be part of
Guest:Yeah, but I survived long enough to be a part of it.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Well, you know what?
Marc:You're not a broken person.
Guest:No.
Marc:And you speak for those people that can't speak, you know.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:I'm not that angry either.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:That'll kill you.
Guest:That's what made me survive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also, I think good parents.
Marc:You must have had good parents.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I do, I do.
Marc:They built you properly.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:And I also built myself properly.
Marc:Yes, both.
Marc:It's a nice combination.
Guest:It's a nice combination.
Guest:I'm sure you had good parents or not good parents, but who built you?
Marc:A lot of trial and error is what built me.
Marc:You built yourself.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:You keep getting up and you don't fall into a hole.
Guest:You know what's the difference between a winner and a loser?
Marc:What?
Guest:How long it takes you to get up.
Marc:I like that.
Marc:I like that.
Marc:It was great talking to you.
Guest:Great talking to you, Mark.
Marc:All right.
Marc:You take care, okay?
Guest:Bye.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Isn't it nice to listen to Salma Hayek?
Marc:The movie is Bliss with Owen Wilson, which is now streaming on Amazon Prime.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:We'll be right back.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:guitar solo guitar solo
Guest:Boomer lives a monkey in the fonda.
Guest:Cat angels everywhere.